WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.040 Hey guys, and welcome back to the Way UK podcast. 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:05.600 My name is Jesse, and I'm joined by the wonderful co-host. 3 00:00:05.600 --> 00:00:07.760 We're actually sharing a mic today, so we're gonna have to... 4 00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:08.960 I'm Izzy. 5 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:10.240 Hi Izzy. 6 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.760 We've got three mics. 7 00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:13.520 Um, joined by Izzy. 8 00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:15.760 And today we have some very special guests 9 00:00:15.760 --> 00:00:17.520 from the charity Open Doors. 10 00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:20.640 Sean and Anna, hey team. 11 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:22.240 Hello, it's good to be here. 12 00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:23.040 Yeah. 13 00:00:23.040 --> 00:00:26.000 For those who don't know what Open Doors is, 14 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:28.400 do you mind just giving a description 15 00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:31.920 of the charity you work for, what it does, what's around? 16 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:33.120 Yeah, Open Doors. 17 00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:36.800 We are all about strengthening the persecuted church across the world. 18 00:00:36.800 --> 00:00:40.720 We believe that no Christian should face persecution alone. 19 00:00:40.720 --> 00:00:43.760 And so we exist to strengthen the church 20 00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:47.520 through lots of different ways through raising prayer, awareness, 21 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:50.240 advocacy, seeing policies changed, 22 00:00:51.040 --> 00:00:54.400 so that our family can remain faithful to Jesus 23 00:00:54.400 --> 00:00:55.760 in the midst of persecution. 24 00:00:56.480 --> 00:00:58.320 It's so good to be able to add a restart there. 25 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:02.000 Yeah, so they obviously also help, like on the ground, 26 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:03.440 like they actually go to the countries 27 00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:05.600 and provide missionary aid and help and support, 28 00:01:05.600 --> 00:01:08.640 financial support, and yeah, they do a really good job. 29 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:10.400 And you don't work for Open Doors? 30 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:12.000 No, no, I just like to volunteer 31 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.600 because of the work they do. 32 00:01:13.600 --> 00:01:15.760 I mean, often work in the East, so. 33 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:17.360 Yeah, yeah, because it's important. 34 00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:18.400 Yeah, it's super cool. 35 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:24.720 I think one of the things I'm really excited about 36 00:01:24.720 --> 00:01:29.040 is broadcast, just to hear stories of how God moved 37 00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:31.520 through the Open Doors ministry. 38 00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:34.240 I know it's funny, my mum was with Open Doors this week 39 00:01:34.240 --> 00:01:35.360 in Westminster. 40 00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:37.040 Oh, fun, which had the prayer breakfast. 41 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:39.200 Yeah, and so that's so fun. 42 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.480 My mum's super involved with some loves of you guys. 43 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:44.800 So who are you guys as well? 44 00:01:44.800 --> 00:01:46.480 We've obviously talked about charity, 45 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:47.760 what Open Doors is a little bit. 46 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.600 But what does your day-to-day look like? 47 00:01:51.600 --> 00:01:52.800 Where are you in life? 48 00:01:52.800 --> 00:01:53.840 All that stuff. 49 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:54.880 Yeah, yeah. 50 00:01:54.880 --> 00:01:57.120 So I work in graphic designer, 51 00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:59.280 so I work actually Canary Wharf in London. 52 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:02.400 Aside from that, I run a Christian clothing line, 53 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.240 so I do designing and stuff like that. 54 00:02:04.240 --> 00:02:05.200 So are you wearing right now? 55 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:06.480 That is what I'm wearing right now, yeah. 56 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:08.640 She was plugged. 57 00:02:10.640 --> 00:02:12.480 Yeah, it's a bit lonely, yeah. 58 00:02:12.480 --> 00:02:16.240 Yes, I, yeah, I've based Oxford area 59 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:19.440 and I work full-time for Open Doors, which is great. 60 00:02:19.760 --> 00:02:24.160 I feel like something interesting, 61 00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:26.000 just to show that I also do stuff. 62 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:29.360 Yeah, I love hospitality, 63 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.080 it's like hosting meals, cooking, 64 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:32.960 absolutely love it. 65 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:34.240 I also love going out to eat, 66 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:36.880 so you know, I always love finding a new restaurant, 67 00:02:36.880 --> 00:02:39.200 authentic from a different nation, so. 68 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:41.600 And you two didn't grow up together? 69 00:02:41.600 --> 00:02:42.320 No. 70 00:02:42.320 --> 00:02:46.000 So from different places and all different backgrounds, 71 00:02:46.880 --> 00:02:50.320 but still you both had this draw into 72 00:02:50.320 --> 00:02:54.000 and doors and the persecuted church. 73 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.040 One, we're saying persecuted a lot as a word. 74 00:02:57.040 --> 00:02:58.240 What does that mean? 75 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.920 But then also what actually gave you a heart 76 00:03:01.920 --> 00:03:03.440 to get involved with this charity? 77 00:03:03.440 --> 00:03:03.680 Yeah. 78 00:03:05.440 --> 00:03:06.160 Do you want me to go? 79 00:03:06.160 --> 00:03:07.440 You want to go and see what persecuted it? 80 00:03:07.440 --> 00:03:09.200 Yeah, that's a big rally. 81 00:03:09.200 --> 00:03:10.320 Okay, yeah, sure. 82 00:03:10.320 --> 00:03:13.040 And yeah, so persecuted, I think you can, 83 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:16.320 there's a few different things I was just thinking about. 84 00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:21.040 You can be marginalized for lots of different reasons, 85 00:03:21.040 --> 00:03:24.720 but open doors won't we focus on our brothers and sisters 86 00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:27.280 who are persecuted for following Jesus? 87 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:29.600 And what I mean by that is being singled out 88 00:03:29.600 --> 00:03:31.600 because of your decision to follow Christ. 89 00:03:31.600 --> 00:03:36.160 So we do a lot of work in Forbes, 90 00:03:36.160 --> 00:03:38.320 so there's something called the freedom of religion and belief. 91 00:03:38.320 --> 00:03:44.720 And so actually in the declaration of human rights, 92 00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:48.320 actually on Article 18, it basically talks about 93 00:03:48.320 --> 00:03:52.960 how everyone should be able to practice their beliefs, their faith. 94 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.920 And so really our focus is on raising awareness. 95 00:03:55.920 --> 00:04:00.400 So actually Christians are able to freely practice 96 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:05.520 and live out their faith without the fear of being singled out 97 00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:08.080 and that can look like many different things. 98 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.840 It could be like being denied education, 99 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:13.920 like having your degree taken from you, 100 00:04:13.920 --> 00:04:17.520 being denied medical support if you're sick. 101 00:04:18.880 --> 00:04:22.800 All these different ways in which people can be singled out. 102 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:24.640 Does that make sense? 103 00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:25.920 Does that help frame it a bit? 104 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:26.720 Yeah, amazing. 105 00:04:27.520 --> 00:04:30.240 And I'm a leezon I met online actually, 106 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:31.360 so I'd seen a lot of that. 107 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:32.560 I sound so weird. 108 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:33.360 I sound weird. 109 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:35.280 No, you just carry out this one. 110 00:04:37.440 --> 00:04:38.960 We're not together. 111 00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:39.920 Yeah, we met you for it. 112 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:41.200 We met you for it in a different way. 113 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:45.760 Just that I was at Instagram. 114 00:04:45.760 --> 00:04:46.880 Yeah, yeah, just say that. 115 00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:47.760 It's fun. 116 00:04:47.760 --> 00:04:50.640 Yeah, so I'm the leezon I actually met on Instagram. 117 00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:53.360 I've always had a real big heart for the persecuted church. 118 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:55.920 And actually open doors do a really good job of actually getting involved 119 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:56.960 in schools and churches, 120 00:04:56.960 --> 00:04:59.760 so I've actually always just known about open doors. 121 00:04:59.760 --> 00:05:02.480 I actually can't remember the first time I actually heard about them, 122 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.160 but it's just one of those things that you know, 123 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:05.360 I've always heard of. 124 00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:08.480 And Anna Lee has actually invited me to a week in the way 125 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:10.960 where I got to hear from some persecuted brothers and sisters, 126 00:05:10.960 --> 00:05:12.240 like who actually lived there. 127 00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:15.600 And one story I heard was from Timothy Cho, 128 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:16.480 who's from North Korea. 129 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:17.200 He defected. 130 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.200 He escaped in his story. 131 00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:21.920 He's just, you know, it's tragic, you know, 132 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:23.760 the suffering and the persecution 133 00:05:23.760 --> 00:05:25.840 that our brothers and sisters are facing across the world. 134 00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:28.320 But just hearing his faith in the midst of that 135 00:05:28.320 --> 00:05:31.280 just really moved me and just made me realize, 136 00:05:31.280 --> 00:05:32.400 like, you know, I've got to do something. 137 00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:36.560 I can't just sit in comfort and just live my normal Christian life in London. 138 00:05:37.280 --> 00:05:38.720 I really want to make an impact. 139 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:39.920 And how did you get involved? 140 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.160 Actually, I think my first, my main first interaction 141 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:43.600 was actually when I was a student. 142 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.600 I was starting up in Leeds. 143 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.640 And our church had like a weekend away. 144 00:05:48.640 --> 00:05:50.880 And we had a speaker from open doors come and share 145 00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:54.240 and he shared about these three amazing women, 146 00:05:55.280 --> 00:05:58.160 Etsy, Ratner and Rebecca. 147 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.640 And they had been imprisoned for starting a Sunday school. 148 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:06.000 And they basically just came when they were in prison. 149 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.320 They just loved, shared the gospel. 150 00:06:08.320 --> 00:06:10.480 And it was just beautiful just hearing 151 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.120 how God used them in that prison. 152 00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:15.920 And then the day that they released the first thing 153 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.080 they did on the first Sunday after their release 154 00:06:18.080 --> 00:06:21.680 was going back to the prison to carry on serving there. 155 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.200 And I was just remembering so amazed by their story. 156 00:06:25.200 --> 00:06:27.600 And then sort of three, four years later, 157 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:28.800 there was a role that came up. 158 00:06:29.440 --> 00:06:31.440 It just felt so right to do that. 159 00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:32.880 And that's like five years ago. 160 00:06:32.880 --> 00:06:35.120 So it's just been an amazing journey. 161 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:37.680 And for me, like the persecutor church 162 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:38.800 are my disciples. 163 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:39.840 They mentor my faith. 164 00:06:39.840 --> 00:06:41.840 They show me what it means to love Jesus. 165 00:06:41.840 --> 00:06:46.240 More fully and deeply and yeah, it's an amazing privilege. 166 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:47.680 I'd love to hear more about that. 167 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:49.360 Because I think both of you have gone out 168 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:51.280 on trips with open doors as well. 169 00:06:51.280 --> 00:06:54.960 And I think you learn so much going on on trips 170 00:06:54.960 --> 00:06:56.800 to different places and different cultures. 171 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.600 And you can see more of the people 172 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.480 that are part of God's body of Christ. 173 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:04.800 So I'd love to hear a bit about, yeah, 174 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.840 what have you learned from going out to these places? 175 00:07:09.200 --> 00:07:12.400 Yes, I went on a trip to North Africa a couple of years ago. 176 00:07:13.440 --> 00:07:15.840 And like you said, you know, actually go into these countries 177 00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:17.680 and seeing these people face to face. 178 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:19.920 Like it's one thing just hearing via online 179 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:21.120 or just hearing stories about it, 180 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.360 but actually being able to interact with these people 181 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:25.680 who really suffered for their faith. 182 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:26.800 I mean, it was just incredible. 183 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.200 We were hearing stories of people younger than myself, 184 00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:31.920 like teenagers who were willing to, you know, 185 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:34.240 risk their education, like being kicked out of school 186 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:39.200 for being Christians, to like adults who were, you know, 187 00:07:39.200 --> 00:07:41.920 willing to actually suffer physically for, for following Jesus. 188 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.480 And I even remember one story of hearing this lady 189 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:47.440 who sort of in the culture that she lived in. 190 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.520 It was a very, it was a different religion. 191 00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:51.680 And you know, when she converted to Christianity, 192 00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:54.240 her family actually wanted to kill her. 193 00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:56.720 And you know, in that sort of culture, 194 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:58.080 there's a thing called honor killings, 195 00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:00.640 where, you know, even if they actually went through it, 196 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.680 it wouldn't have had as much repercussions 197 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:05.200 because again, it's an honor killing. 198 00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:07.200 It's seen as something that's acceptable. 199 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:09.920 And just, I mean, just hearing her story 200 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:12.400 and just actually being able to interact 201 00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:13.600 with somebody who'd gone through that. 202 00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:16.720 It's not something that you would get the opportunity 203 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.560 to do in the West and in London. 204 00:08:19.520 --> 00:08:21.280 And just, you know, realizing that, you know, 205 00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:23.520 people were actually paying the price for following Jesus. 206 00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:25.200 I mean, yeah, it was incredible. 207 00:08:25.200 --> 00:08:27.120 I mean, there's so many other stories, but I don't know. 208 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:28.080 Yeah, yes. 209 00:08:28.080 --> 00:08:29.280 I like, I think similar. 210 00:08:30.080 --> 00:08:33.120 I also remember going to sort of middle east area. 211 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:38.720 And just being so challenged by our family 212 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:43.040 to fight comfort. 213 00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:47.520 So I think one of the things that I'm always really challenged by 214 00:08:47.520 --> 00:08:50.160 is that often people say, 215 00:08:50.160 --> 00:08:52.240 please don't pray that the persecution ends 216 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.160 but pray that I remain faithful to Jesus 217 00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:54.960 and I'm instead of it. 218 00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:59.520 And we, I just remember, it's just having a meal 219 00:08:59.520 --> 00:09:01.120 with someone, it's hearing their story. 220 00:09:01.760 --> 00:09:04.880 And I remember chatting with some people 221 00:09:04.880 --> 00:09:06.160 and they were like, you know, 222 00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:08.800 God's given us a vision for our city. 223 00:09:08.800 --> 00:09:10.320 And actually, if we leave, we actually create 224 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:11.920 too much space for the darkness 225 00:09:11.920 --> 00:09:14.000 because we believe that we carry the light of Jesus 226 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:15.040 where we are. 227 00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:17.120 And I just remember being so profoundly impacted 228 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.920 by that and, you know, they said, you know, 229 00:09:19.920 --> 00:09:23.360 we've had so many opportunities to be able to move 230 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:24.560 to have an easier life. 231 00:09:24.560 --> 00:09:26.320 But the Lord's given us a vision 232 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:29.840 for our people, for our area 233 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:32.160 and we want to stay, even if it costs us. 234 00:09:32.800 --> 00:09:34.720 And I think the other main thing 235 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:37.280 that I'm always really challenged by is 236 00:09:37.280 --> 00:09:40.400 just the perspective of eternity. 237 00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:42.960 Like often they'll say, Jesus is coming back soon 238 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.280 and they just live in that constant reality 239 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:47.280 of eternity. 240 00:09:47.280 --> 00:09:49.200 They live in the light that they know 241 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.200 that one day it will all end 242 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:53.360 and the hope that we have. 243 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.840 And there's that very lived hope 244 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:58.560 and you just see it shining from them. 245 00:09:58.560 --> 00:10:01.280 And so it's just a real privilege 246 00:10:01.280 --> 00:10:03.440 just to learn and allow my heart to be 247 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.000 molded, I guess, by their wisdom, 248 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.080 by their intimacy. 249 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.320 There's like an intimacy with Jesus 250 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:13.600 because all of a sudden it's 251 00:10:14.400 --> 00:10:15.680 in the midst of persecution, 252 00:10:15.680 --> 00:10:17.840 you realize that Jesus is all you have 253 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:19.120 and here's all you need. 254 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:21.520 And so, yeah. 255 00:10:21.520 --> 00:10:22.880 And that's something that I've really felt 256 00:10:22.880 --> 00:10:23.840 like when I've gone out there, 257 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.080 just recognizing that, 258 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.080 you know, persecution doesn't actually hurt the church. 259 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:29.040 You know, prosperity does. 260 00:10:29.040 --> 00:10:30.560 I remember a preacher saying that one time 261 00:10:30.560 --> 00:10:32.000 and actually cut that. 262 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.760 Well, what I mean by that is, 263 00:10:33.760 --> 00:10:35.040 you know, like Annelise said, 264 00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:36.320 when you're when you're persecuted, 265 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:37.520 when you lose everything 266 00:10:37.520 --> 00:10:38.960 and all you have is Jesus, 267 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:41.440 you develop a deeper sense of relationship 268 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:42.720 with Jesus because that's all you have. 269 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:44.800 In the context in which we live, 270 00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:46.960 there's so many things to be distracted by. 271 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:49.680 And, you know, once that's all stripped from you 272 00:10:49.680 --> 00:10:52.080 and all you have left is Jesus, you know, 273 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:53.600 he becomes you everything. 274 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:55.840 And, you know, one thing I really learned 275 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:57.040 when I went out there was actually 276 00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:59.200 recognizing the value of God's word. 277 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:00.800 Like, we were hearing stories from people 278 00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:02.960 who didn't have access to a Bible 279 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:04.240 except that they went to church. 280 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:05.920 So they would travel to read the Bible. 281 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:08.400 You know, we wake up in the morning, 282 00:11:08.400 --> 00:11:10.000 I can pick up Bible on my phone, 283 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:11.920 I can pick it, I've got multiple Bibles in my house, 284 00:11:11.920 --> 00:11:14.720 but, you know, just thinking about that. 285 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:16.400 Sometimes when I'm struggling to read the word, 286 00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:18.960 I'll literally picture these people in my mind 287 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.440 and think about how these people have to travel 288 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:22.560 to read the Bible. 289 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:24.240 It's just, yeah, it's just, 290 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.120 it's really encouraging and challenging. 291 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:29.520 I'm really struck by that. 292 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:31.280 What you were saying, Anna, 293 00:11:31.280 --> 00:11:33.440 of like they're not praying for persecution to end, 294 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.560 but just for their faithfulness. 295 00:11:36.560 --> 00:11:38.000 I think that's such a, 296 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.720 even like we, we're not going necessarily through 297 00:11:41.520 --> 00:11:43.120 what they're going through, 298 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.320 but we can still pray that prayer. 299 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.680 It's not necessarily like, 300 00:11:47.680 --> 00:11:49.680 for this difficulty to leave us, 301 00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:51.120 but actually praying for our faithfulness 302 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.720 and seeing God close, like, 303 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:54.480 what an inspiration that is. 304 00:11:55.920 --> 00:11:58.800 Jesse, you've got questions in your head. 305 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:01.760 Chicken tal. 306 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.480 Yeah, I mean, I have loads of places 307 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:08.320 that I'd love to go in. 308 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:11.920 I'd love to hear a bit later about 309 00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:14.880 the daily impact that's not on your face. 310 00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:17.520 But before that, I just would love to 311 00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:19.520 also paint a wider picture 312 00:12:19.520 --> 00:12:22.320 on what we're really talking about. 313 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.320 Because I know I've known 314 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:26.320 of the persecuted church for years 315 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:27.520 and been like, 316 00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:28.720 ah, like that sucks. 317 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:30.720 Someone had their education strip from them. 318 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.520 But I don't think I really knew 319 00:12:33.520 --> 00:12:36.320 what that would, like, fully entailed. 320 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.920 And even just preparing a little bit 321 00:12:39.920 --> 00:12:41.120 for this podcast, you know, 322 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:43.120 I found out new stats, 323 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:46.320 like that 90% of the Christians killed, 324 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.320 like last year for their faith was all 325 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.320 in Sub-Saharan Africa. 326 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:51.520 And it's like, 327 00:12:51.520 --> 00:12:52.720 oh, wait, how? 328 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:54.720 This is real. 329 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.720 This isn't just 330 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:57.920 something distant that's happened. 331 00:12:57.920 --> 00:12:59.920 These are my brothers and sisters. 332 00:13:01.520 --> 00:13:03.920 And I guess I'd just love to hear 333 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.120 this is great to personal encounters with it. 334 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.520 But have you got any stories 335 00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:11.920 from persecution, 336 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:14.320 like specific stories of people 337 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.720 that have gone through it and found faith? 338 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:17.920 Even more. 339 00:13:17.920 --> 00:13:19.920 And just to give us a bit more context 340 00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:23.120 around what's really going on in some of these countries. 341 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.120 I was just thinking like 342 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.520 we live in this tension 343 00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:30.320 of like the Kingdom of God is now and not yet. 344 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.320 And so we have these stories 345 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.720 of persecution and I'll share one in a second. 346 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.720 But and then I just, 347 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:39.720 that sense of we do see breakthrough, 348 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:41.120 we do see answers to prayer. 349 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:42.720 But then there's also the tension of 350 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.120 we don't always know the answer. 351 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.720 And we don't always see the answers 352 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.520 or we don't know what that's going to be worked out in. 353 00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:51.520 So to give you kind of a couple of examples. 354 00:13:51.520 --> 00:13:55.520 So so manga he's from Nigeria 355 00:13:55.520 --> 00:13:59.120 and his family were attacked 356 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:00.720 by a slam extremist group 357 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:02.320 and the Quran. 358 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:05.520 And it resulted in the 359 00:14:05.520 --> 00:14:07.920 the killing of his father. 360 00:14:07.920 --> 00:14:12.320 And he and his brother were both 361 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.320 yes severely injured 362 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.920 in that attack like brutally injured. 363 00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:20.320 So much so that medical teams 364 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:21.920 declared him clinically dead. 365 00:14:21.920 --> 00:14:24.320 And he talks about the moment when 366 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:25.920 he was being attacked 367 00:14:25.920 --> 00:14:27.920 and all of a sudden just his life 368 00:14:27.920 --> 00:14:29.120 batters before his eyes. 369 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:30.720 And he's you know in that moment 370 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:31.520 he has to decide 371 00:14:31.520 --> 00:14:33.120 am I in for Jesus or am I out? 372 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.520 He talks about being a very 373 00:14:35.520 --> 00:14:39.120 nominal Christian of kind of just going through the motions 374 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:40.720 but this moment being a moment 375 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:42.720 when he has to decide 376 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:44.720 Jesus am I do I believe in you? 377 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:46.320 Are you who you say you are? 378 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.120 And and now he looks 379 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:50.320 back on that time and you know 380 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:53.120 he was able to make an amazing recovery. 381 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.320 And you know he can't go back to where 382 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.720 he's from originally because 383 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:00.720 you know the stakes for him are too high. 384 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.920 And but he has the these massive scars on his neck 385 00:15:03.920 --> 00:15:06.720 and he says for me these are evidence of God's existence. 386 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.320 He talks about the moment 387 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:12.320 when he was being attacked that he made this decision 388 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.320 to be like Lord Jesus. 389 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.520 You know I want to live for you 390 00:15:17.520 --> 00:15:19.520 even if it means dying for you in this moment. 391 00:15:19.520 --> 00:15:23.520 And he talks about how the presence of God just came over his body 392 00:15:23.520 --> 00:15:25.920 and he felt like God's hand on his neck 393 00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:27.920 and all the pain leaving 394 00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:30.320 and how God just met him in that moment. 395 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:32.720 And he now says you know I want to live 396 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.720 to make God's name famous. 397 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:36.720 I want to live so that the name of Jesus 398 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.120 would be made known. 399 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.120 And so that's one amazing story 400 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.120 of like the victory of 401 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.120 you know seeing God move in the midst of persecution. 402 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.120 And then on the other side 403 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.120 we've got you know sisters like Leah Sharibu 404 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:50.720 and you may have heard of her 405 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.120 but she was abducted 406 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.920 along with about a hundred other school girls 407 00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:59.520 by extremists and all the other girls 408 00:15:59.520 --> 00:16:01.520 were really sadly one 409 00:16:01.520 --> 00:16:03.520 died in captivity. 410 00:16:03.520 --> 00:16:07.520 But the reason that she is still in captivity 411 00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:09.520 is because she refused to deny Jesus. 412 00:16:09.520 --> 00:16:14.720 And and Rebecca her her mother 413 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.520 so it was Leah's birthday in May 414 00:16:17.520 --> 00:16:21.920 and there's this beautiful and harrowing video of Rebecca 415 00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:25.120 and having this birthday cake in memory of her daughter 416 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.320 you know saying you know I hope that one day maybe next year 417 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.920 Leah will be here celebrating you know with me 418 00:16:31.920 --> 00:16:35.920 and it's just that that thing of the tension that we live in 419 00:16:35.920 --> 00:16:39.120 of you know we we see these moments of 420 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.120 like manga where you know he carries a scar 421 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.920 of God's existence and Leah who 422 00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:50.320 we don't know where she is but we still know that God is 423 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.520 with her and present and praying that actually even 424 00:16:53.520 --> 00:16:57.520 in that midst of wherever she is that God is at work 425 00:16:57.520 --> 00:17:01.520 and that she we get the opportunity to still pray to stand 426 00:17:01.520 --> 00:17:05.520 with her and that's the the pain and the beauty 427 00:17:05.520 --> 00:17:11.520 the glory and the suffering of of following Jesus. 428 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.120 I'm also hearing stories from Cameroon 429 00:17:15.120 --> 00:17:18.720 I'm one story that comes to mind is past them and stuff 430 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.720 who lived in a village where militants actually come and attack the village 431 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.360 so in order for them to be safe they actually have to go 432 00:17:25.360 --> 00:17:29.120 every night to live in the mountain and then they come back after 433 00:17:29.120 --> 00:17:31.120 and you know we're hearing stories where they come back 434 00:17:31.120 --> 00:17:34.720 and then everything's been plundered you know their positions have been taken 435 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.120 and they still that night have to go back into the mountain 436 00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:39.920 because if they stay there they don't know if they're going to get attacked or killed 437 00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:43.520 or yeah just harmed so it's you know it's tragic 438 00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:46.720 but just the fact that you know their faith is standing 439 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.320 their faith is is being tested but you know that testing is 440 00:17:50.320 --> 00:17:54.720 purifying their faith and making it stronger so it's encouraging 441 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:57.120 you know you hear these stories and sometimes your heart just breaks 442 00:17:57.120 --> 00:17:59.120 and you just like what can I do what can I do 443 00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:01.920 but you know God is sovereign God has a plan 444 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.120 he's working all things according to his will so 445 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:09.520 I was it's amazing hearing like the individual stories 446 00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:12.720 that makes it very like what's real that these are people 447 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.720 these are actual real people 448 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.720 which I think when we hear some of like the big stats 449 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.320 it's hard to remember that every single number is a person 450 00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:25.520 but I'd also wondered do you have any of those stats in your head 451 00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:28.720 of like what what is the scale of what's actually going on 452 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:30.320 and what you're talking about 453 00:18:30.320 --> 00:18:35.520 yeah so um globally um there are 380 million Christians 454 00:18:35.520 --> 00:18:39.200 here are persecuted um and we are all about 455 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.000 strengthening those most persecuted so to help frame that a bit 456 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:44.560 differently it's one in seven Christians 457 00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:49.520 so one in seven Christians will face a discrimination or persecution 458 00:18:49.520 --> 00:18:54.240 and then in terms of uh the current sort of displacement of Christians 459 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:57.760 so Christians who factively because of violence um 460 00:18:57.760 --> 00:19:01.360 currently 16.2 million Christians in sub-Saharan Africa 461 00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:05.360 um to help frame that um makes it a bit easier that's the 462 00:19:05.360 --> 00:19:09.760 total population of Glasgow Manchester Birmingham and London 463 00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:13.200 that's combined that is how many Christians are displaced 464 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:18.880 I'm having to flee um most of them we predict is because 465 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:24.480 of persecution um and uh yeah that just really helps to frame 466 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:28.240 just the enormity of it and it's widespread it's across 467 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:31.760 across the world um but we are seeing that this sort of 468 00:19:31.760 --> 00:19:36.240 fire of persecution is really raging in sub-Saharan Africa right now 469 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:40.480 um and so that's why we want to be a voice we want to say that you know 470 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:45.200 they're 16.2 million Christians you know they they are individuals 471 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.680 um God sees them knows them and we want to be a voice for them 472 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.880 and actually 13 out of the 20 countries where it's most dangerous to be a 473 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.680 Christian or in sub-Saharan Africa so you know Africa is actually a big 474 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.600 component when it comes to persecution and yeah 475 00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:05.040 why do you think this is overlooked in some of our like 476 00:20:05.040 --> 00:20:10.960 circles and I again I can only speak from my story but 477 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.080 I didn't really take note of this stuff I didn't hear these stats 478 00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:17.760 till really this past year when I began to be like oh my god 479 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:22.080 the church yeah yeah like went through my teenage years without hearing 480 00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:24.880 about this like why do you think we missed this 481 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:28.320 I think a lot of people are just unaware I think which is why you know it's 482 00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:31.040 important to be educated about these things and actually hear about what's 483 00:20:31.040 --> 00:20:34.560 going on I think you know once people actually realize that you know 484 00:20:34.560 --> 00:20:37.680 Christians are being persecuted um I think people would 485 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.360 would naturally just want to help um I think when it comes to other religions 486 00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:45.760 um people tend to think that they're more persecuted um and obviously 487 00:20:45.760 --> 00:20:49.680 this isn't like who's persecuted more but it's you know Christians are 488 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:53.760 are persecuted a lot and I think once we start to hear more stats and more 489 00:20:53.760 --> 00:20:57.280 facts and you know raise awareness um yeah people will 490 00:20:57.280 --> 00:21:02.160 will be more informed and I think um one of the 491 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:07.200 testimonies uh from Nigeria's uh of Pasabanova's um so he lived 492 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:12.720 five years almost in a 1.5 meter by 1.5 meter squared 493 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.760 tent made up of cardboard that's smaller than a double bed 494 00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:24.320 um with um with his wife and some of his children um 495 00:21:24.320 --> 00:21:29.760 and you know with his wife so some of his kids have to stay with their 496 00:21:29.760 --> 00:21:34.080 neighbors because it's not physical space I mean a double bed is not 497 00:21:34.080 --> 00:21:38.000 big enough like the whole home like that is your entire home 498 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.760 um and he basically says you know nobody's talking about it 499 00:21:41.840 --> 00:21:45.680 the governments aren't talking about it literally no one is talking about 500 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.040 it and so that's why like for the next um 501 00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:52.960 couple of years like we want to we want to shift that narrative we want to 502 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.280 shift that so people do know they are educated they are informed um 503 00:21:57.280 --> 00:22:02.080 to see a change of the tide of persecution that tide to be shifted 504 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:07.360 um and I think it's that thing of you know raising awareness it's 505 00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:10.960 being a voice sharing story so that people know and 506 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.520 I think it can be so easy like obviously like in the UK and other places 507 00:22:15.520 --> 00:22:19.680 you know it's very comfortable we like the comfort of life and 508 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:24.240 you know what uh that offers and actually if you read the bible so much of it 509 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.400 is actually like persecuted literature 510 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:31.280 Jesus says that you'll be persecuted um for following me and 511 00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:35.600 that might not always directly be us as individuals but actually 512 00:22:35.600 --> 00:22:41.520 the me um can be your family wider you know we are 513 00:22:41.520 --> 00:22:44.560 of people we are we have brothers and sisters so it's 514 00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:48.160 that sense of family being more than biology and 515 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.640 that actually uh yeah we are one body and actually if one person suffers 516 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.640 then we should fill that as well and so it's making it's connecting people 517 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.680 to their family and making them aware giving them a bigger 518 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.920 perspective of of what's happening yeah it's so good and like 519 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:08.240 well it's not so good that I understand I know I understand what you're saying 520 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:13.840 I mean like yeah because it's really important and like 521 00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:17.040 hearing the numbers hearing the 16.2 million people 522 00:23:17.040 --> 00:23:20.480 having to sleep in small boxes people with scars or 523 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.320 over their body because they've been like 524 00:23:24.320 --> 00:23:29.120 they've tried to be killed it's like it makes your heart 525 00:23:29.120 --> 00:23:32.240 so sad and it makes your heart break 526 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:36.960 and it's easy to kind of also be overwhelmed with that 527 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:42.160 I think like people are probably listening and like wow 16.2 million 528 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:45.440 cool and like maybe a bit more educated than I was before I clicked on this 529 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:51.360 podcast but what can I do like how do I do this and 530 00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.960 I know you you've literally just been in Africa 531 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.040 right you've done a trip you've got people on the ground you're 532 00:23:59.040 --> 00:24:03.360 planning trips but you also there are ways to contribute without having to do 533 00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:07.120 that yeah and I just I guess can you shed a bit of light into 534 00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:12.720 what we can do yeah from any position yeah yeah it's a great point you know 535 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.000 I always think about it this way you know not everyone can go down the world 536 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:20.320 but everyone can hold a rope you know so we can all support and actually one 537 00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:23.600 of the ways that we can actually support is prayer I know sometimes that 538 00:24:23.600 --> 00:24:26.400 might seem like I'm not really doing it a lot but we know that prayer is 539 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.640 powerful like when we pray god listens and he's a creator of heaven and earth so 540 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.240 you know prayer prayer is important I would encourage people to really pray 541 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:38.320 open door sends and newsletter out monthly so you can hear more details about 542 00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:41.680 persecuted church and their names and you can actually go through the 543 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.200 listen you know just dedicate time to pray for each person and you know 544 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.240 really consider them as your brothers sisters and pray 545 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:53.040 another ways to give you know financially open doors do a great job of actually 546 00:24:53.120 --> 00:24:56.720 going on the ground and you know providing resources for people who've been 547 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:02.400 displaced like you said pasta bimbals who was living in a 548 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:08.720 one meter by one meter bed basically you know actually providing resources 549 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:12.720 providing food providing opportunities to have a job to be able to provide 550 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:18.320 for his family you know that those are some of the ways yeah and 551 00:25:18.320 --> 00:25:22.880 the other thing we're doing is a petition so for the next two years we're 552 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:27.680 looking at gathering a million signatures which is a lot but 553 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:33.200 yeah this is a global campaign it was we're really like expectant to 554 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:38.400 to see this made known to see these stories to see the reality made known 555 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.640 in the in the halls and corridors of places like 556 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:48.240 the UN the EU the African governments local governments national governments 557 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.640 right across the the globe and by signing it by adding your name you're 558 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.960 actually adding your voice to so many other people and we're really asking 559 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:01.200 for the protection of Christians in these situations we're asking for 560 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:05.440 justice we're asking that those who are actually causing 561 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:10.640 these attacks to be held accountable you know we believe that actually 562 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:15.200 God is the God of justice and we want to see those those things 563 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.720 shifted and so actually there's an invitation that you can add your name 564 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:23.120 you can add your your signature to say actually I 565 00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:27.120 hear I see these stories and I want to respond in a very practical way 566 00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:30.240 absolutely and we'll talk a bit more about how we can everyone watching 567 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.000 consign petition to watch out a bit more about that in a moment 568 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:39.040 but I guess so great we've signed a petition we've got a million signatures 569 00:26:39.040 --> 00:26:43.280 what does that do what does that make a way for what what can God do with those 570 00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:49.440 signatures we believe that so much can be changed it is 571 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:54.400 being able to take something to somewhere like Parliament and say 572 00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:59.280 we have a million people willing to put their name on to something 573 00:26:59.280 --> 00:27:03.760 and we want to see policies changed we want to see 574 00:27:03.760 --> 00:27:10.960 actually you have an influence within these whether it's trade whether it's 575 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:15.920 relationships with other nations like how how can you use your voice 576 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.920 to see something shifted um because you know I think sometimes you can feel 577 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:23.920 like oh I'm only just one person that what difference can I make but if 578 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:29.920 a million people um all say no I actually have a voice and they all add their name 579 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:34.560 that that accumulates and that adds up and what an amazing 580 00:27:34.560 --> 00:27:39.760 um thing to be able to do to say you know this is what the world is saying 581 00:27:40.080 --> 00:27:45.680 will will you actually respond will um can we hold your accountable 582 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:52.080 actually seeing things shifted um as well and it's um 583 00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:56.480 yeah it's really wanting to see those things change and actually um 584 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:01.680 that's an amazing opportunity and um and then holding people to account you know 585 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:05.680 if they say you know we're going to make these changes or 586 00:28:05.760 --> 00:28:09.600 we go with these recommendations it's you know holding them to account to say 587 00:28:09.600 --> 00:28:13.520 you know what's happened what's changing as possible I just says no one is talking 588 00:28:13.520 --> 00:28:17.360 about it so by a million people adding their name a million people have heard 589 00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:19.760 about it and hopefully those million people then 590 00:28:19.760 --> 00:28:22.960 maybe even share with two people like all of a sudden 591 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.720 you know people will start talking about it people will hear about it 592 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.080 and so you know Pastor Barnabas and others that he represents will know that 593 00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:33.840 actually I'm not alone and I'm not forgotten but I'm seeing 594 00:28:33.840 --> 00:28:39.520 my story has heard um yeah it's also just the ministry of presence you know 595 00:28:39.520 --> 00:28:42.320 like Anna Lee was saying just these people often feel like 596 00:28:42.320 --> 00:28:45.680 you know nobody cares about them when I actually went to the country in Africa 597 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.960 um the person became a believer didn't even realize that there were 598 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.160 necessarily other believers around him or other believers in other countries 599 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:55.120 who were praying for him and actually just recognizing that 600 00:28:55.120 --> 00:28:58.880 you know we're all one body we all careful on another and actually just 601 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:03.120 you know sitting and hearing new stories and you know the million signatures like 602 00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:06.080 a believer recognizing that a million people actually care about the 603 00:29:06.080 --> 00:29:08.960 suffering that they're going through it's it's it's impactful and 604 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.320 I think it also puts pressure on the government to recognize like you know 605 00:29:12.320 --> 00:29:16.400 this is actually happening and and the government over there doesn't seem to 606 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:20.560 be doing anything but you know if you put pressure on them um hopefully it will 607 00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:24.320 actually cause changes to happen you mentioned a bit about 608 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:29.280 sub-Saharan Africa and Africa um what is sub-Saharan Africa please 609 00:29:29.280 --> 00:29:32.800 explain that one yeah of course um sub-Saharan Africa it's basically just 610 00:29:32.800 --> 00:29:37.840 below the Saharan desert so I actually didn't know that Nigeria 611 00:29:37.840 --> 00:29:42.640 it stretches all across Ghana Uganda 612 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.080 Comoros Cameroon South Africa everything below yeah 613 00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:48.960 cool and then you guys have recently been on a trip 614 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.160 in a place in Africa which I'll just tell us a bit about 615 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.640 that and your experiences there yeah sure um so I went we actually went on 616 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.720 different we went different times so she went I think I went first then you went 617 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.240 yeah yeah yeah um but yeah so I had the opportunity to go on a trip 618 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.480 to meet some of the persecute brazen sisters um so we actually ended up 619 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:13.680 seeing I think we saw three separate families um sort of over the 620 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:17.680 country um we started in one place and went to the other um and we actually 621 00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:21.120 got to speak to them and hear their stories we heard stories of teenagers 622 00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:23.440 who are you know willing to be kicked out of school 623 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.320 willing to to really lose everything for the sake of 624 00:30:26.320 --> 00:30:30.480 while following Jesus and actually even risk being ostracized from their own 625 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.920 families actually like teenagers who are willing to 626 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.760 to count Jesus as more valuable than their own families and 627 00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:40.480 actually a lot of them end up getting kicked out of their families and there's 628 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.760 this one lady um who actually takes in a lot of these 629 00:30:43.760 --> 00:30:47.440 essentially orphans um and we got to meet with these believers and 630 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.960 and sort of we sang together um we read the word together we heard 631 00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:53.840 their stories a lot of it was just me really listening and just 632 00:30:53.840 --> 00:30:56.640 taking in what they were saying it was obviously heartbreaking the stories 633 00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.160 that we were hearing um even the fact that you know 634 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.560 oftentimes in in these contexts is actually not 635 00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:06.160 anybody to be teaching them the word like even that just something as simple as 636 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.560 the past uh they're sort of having to figure out things on their own um 637 00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:13.600 and you know the way it works is that you know generally one of the older 638 00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:15.840 kids would study the word and sort of be the 639 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:20.240 parcel for that group and yeah it's just i mean it's heartbreaking 640 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.040 there's so much that you want to do and you just recognise that you obviously 641 00:31:23.040 --> 00:31:25.920 can't do anything everything but you know just being with them and 642 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:30.960 listening to their stories and um yeah it was just it was an amazing trip 643 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:34.800 and i think one of the things i was just remembering um 644 00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:39.760 was we were visiting this beautiful family and um 645 00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:44.240 we went in they'd like prepared this amazing i think just the hospitality 646 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:49.840 and the generosity um of being family and experiencing um 647 00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:53.760 just an openness is a really beautiful thing to experience but 648 00:31:53.760 --> 00:31:57.280 after we'd spent time you know praying and and sharing and just hearing 649 00:31:57.280 --> 00:32:02.640 testimonies you know she said um before you guys came i was so 650 00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:07.840 wary i was so tired but you coming as like this image of being lifted on 651 00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:13.520 eagle's wings you know um that we read about in Isaiah um you know about 652 00:32:13.520 --> 00:32:17.760 being lifted um even you know people grow tired and weary and 653 00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:22.480 it was just this beautiful image of actually what just sitting with people 654 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.400 knowing that um we're present with them in the 655 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:31.760 moment of of suffering um it just means so much 656 00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:36.320 and actually that profoundly impacted me um and i just love this sense of 657 00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:40.480 actually our prayers go a week on so brother Andrew who started open doors 658 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.080 um almost 70 years ago now um that's always 659 00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:48.480 brought so much challenge to me and my own journey and in terms of you know 660 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.400 i've obviously been i've met my fascist family but actually there's a real 661 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.200 invitation that actually our prayers go 662 00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:59.440 beyond borders beyond prison walls you know there's no place where God 663 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:03.440 and the spirit of God cannot move and and so there's this beautiful invitation 664 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:08.400 to remember and to stand in prayer and actually in those moments 665 00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:11.200 you know our fascist family experience a sense of being lifted 666 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:16.480 of being soaring like eagles you know and so i like i think that was a really 667 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:20.800 profound thing that stuck with me yeah was just the impact that has 668 00:33:20.800 --> 00:33:24.960 yeah and something actually just remembered you know when i was out there 669 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.160 actually meeting with these people one thing i just i just remember just feeling 670 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:32.000 was just how closely well with one another like you know the fact that 671 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.800 these people would actually ended up losing their families so they were 672 00:33:34.800 --> 00:33:38.320 literally like family like oftentimes we talk about family in the body of 673 00:33:38.320 --> 00:33:41.680 Christ and you know it's it's not the same because 674 00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.640 you know we haven't lost everything these people have lost everything and 675 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:48.400 all they have is Jesus and each other and they there's just a sense of 676 00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:51.280 a sense of intimacy that they have with one another that you know hadn't 677 00:33:51.280 --> 00:33:54.960 experienced before and it was just i'm in one time um because actually a lot of 678 00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.040 them don't speak English so a lot of them speak Arabic and so actually one 679 00:33:59.040 --> 00:34:01.920 family we met we actually had to use google translate to be able to 680 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.360 communicate with them but um i just remember we were singing a worship song 681 00:34:05.360 --> 00:34:08.720 we were singing in English they were singing in Arabic and it just 682 00:34:08.720 --> 00:34:11.520 reminding me of revelation where it talks about every tribe every nation 683 00:34:11.520 --> 00:34:14.960 every tongue and it was just it was like a little slice of heaven you know it was 684 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:18.720 well it was yeah it was beautiful there was this moment where we were with 685 00:34:18.720 --> 00:34:22.160 some young adults and just hearing their stories and actually they 686 00:34:22.160 --> 00:34:26.320 mentioned the way uh and actually it's just amazing actually just the 687 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.520 encouragement of the fact that actually what you guys 688 00:34:29.520 --> 00:34:33.840 are doing like is having an impact on our our rescue to family around the 689 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.800 world and the way that it's discipling them the way that it's actually equipping 690 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:40.400 them so yes so guys thank you um because actually what you do is 691 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.600 extending um the kingdom uh in ways that actually you might not ever hear 692 00:34:45.600 --> 00:34:50.160 about so it was just this beautiful moment of being like oh wait 693 00:34:50.160 --> 00:34:55.200 the the rescue church and like the church is like almost smaller like it's 694 00:34:55.680 --> 00:35:01.280 in it becomes more everything becomes closer um and so yeah i say i was like 695 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:06.560 i was going to mention that um yeah yeah it is crazy that's crazy so 696 00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:10.160 in it and even coming to the question of like what we can do 697 00:35:12.240 --> 00:35:17.600 maybe your call in life is the do christian media on social media 698 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:20.480 great christian content and if god's called that 699 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.640 put that on your life um being encouraged that it's not just 700 00:35:24.640 --> 00:35:28.560 then your neighbors it's not just for your school it can actually be to serve 701 00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:31.840 the wider church um that that story so beautiful 702 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:34.880 it moves me it's a little oh my gosh i can't believe what we're doing here 703 00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.640 yeah this beautiful studio is reaching some of the like hardest 704 00:35:38.640 --> 00:35:41.360 places um it's a great point though because i think 705 00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:44.400 typically you know we think of christian ministry as like vocational 706 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.840 ministry like being a pastor serving in a church but actually you know just 707 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:51.200 doing anything um with the gifts that god has given you 708 00:35:51.200 --> 00:35:55.120 diligently you know you know god can use it in any way like it's 709 00:35:55.120 --> 00:35:59.600 design you know music the podcast yeah 710 00:35:59.600 --> 00:36:04.080 so yeah and in terms of again what we can do 711 00:36:04.080 --> 00:36:07.040 because i get this is all this is what the question starts this is what the 712 00:36:07.040 --> 00:36:10.240 whole podcast starts in my heart i'm like oh yes what 713 00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:14.240 what can i do we've talked about this big vision of having like a million 714 00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:19.600 signatures on this petition and we as the way are partnering specifically 715 00:36:19.600 --> 00:36:22.800 with this with the the arise africa campaign 716 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:26.400 because we really believe in it and we're really keen to 717 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:29.600 to help it grow and and to push it to the point where 718 00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:33.440 people talk about it more and so if you're watching 719 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:38.560 there will be a link in the buyer with a little sign petition what what's the 720 00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:42.400 what's it under the description just just call the arise africa petition 721 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.000 and you can click on it it's as easy as buying shoes on amazon 722 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:50.800 it's like probably easier than apple Bay and and it really doesn't cost a lot 723 00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:54.160 but what you're doing is you're partnering with the wider church 724 00:36:54.160 --> 00:36:58.240 you're partnering with the body of Christ to see a change happen where 725 00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:01.760 broken this is very present to see something shift 726 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:06.880 this is a really really easy step that we can take to partner with it 727 00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:09.760 so yeah i'd encourage anyone listening if your heart's burning 728 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.840 and even if it's not it's not that deep if we sign the petition it just gets 729 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.280 this talked about so it's supposed to head over to the link and buy it is there 730 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.080 any final things you want to say before we finish before we wrap up 731 00:37:22.080 --> 00:37:25.600 um i would probably just say you know keep praying you know prayer is really 732 00:37:25.600 --> 00:37:31.200 important um oftentimes like i said before you know we feel like prayer 733 00:37:31.200 --> 00:37:33.760 doesn't actually have an impact or it's something small that we're doing but 734 00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:37.120 it's actually a huge huge thing and so i would encourage people to be to 735 00:37:37.120 --> 00:37:41.840 praying um you know really think about how you can serve and how you can 736 00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:45.840 volunteer like i got involved just through instagram and you know now i'm 737 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.040 being on the trip and able to actually meet with these people so yeah get 738 00:37:49.040 --> 00:37:53.760 involved if you can pray, scroll yeah yeah prayer some most important thing 739 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.320 and it's the biggest thing anyone can ever do is pray yeah um yeah 740 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.560 yeah no matter who you are there's so many ways that you can 741 00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:07.520 partner yeah with serving the wider church and even financially 742 00:38:07.520 --> 00:38:10.480 finance is such a funny topic some people get yeah 743 00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:14.880 jarred by it and they're like oh i like yeah i don't want to like give because 744 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.920 for whatever reason but it's a very biblical thing to give 745 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.160 Jesus talked about it so much in the bible not just for ourselves but for others 746 00:38:22.160 --> 00:38:27.520 yeah and and so if you're blessed with finance and you can't give more than 747 00:38:27.520 --> 00:38:31.520 five minutes maybe you can give five pounds yeah and that seriously does have an 748 00:38:31.520 --> 00:38:34.880 impact whoever whatever scenario maybe it's a trip maybe it's 749 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.880 signing the petition do you be encouraged you can get involved no matter what 750 00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.840 yeah and guys thanks for joining us yeah on this 751 00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:47.120 privilege thank you no honestly i'll joy and and and just giving us more 752 00:38:47.120 --> 00:38:51.680 insight i feel like i've learned stuff yeah i'm sure you do as well 753 00:38:51.680 --> 00:38:54.640 and uh thank you for watching the way you care podcast 754 00:38:54.640 --> 00:38:58.400 we will see you again another week because we've got podcasts coming out 755 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:03.840 every week and uh yeah do like subscribe all the above and and share this 756 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:07.120 petition share it around put up new stories that's really important 757 00:39:07.120 --> 00:39:10.800 and and we'll see you later