WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.640 What is up guys? It's Zach. Welcome back to another podcast episode on the way. Zoe, what are you 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:15.360 thinking about right now? I'm looking at a camera. I'm thinking, but actually I'm looking at you. So 3 00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:21.760 hello and welcome back to our podcast. Yes, I'm so excited for this episode. Zoe and I are going 4 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:30.000 to be introducing a very special guest. Today we have Bobby Grunwald on. Did I say that right? 5 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.840 You said it right. Yes. It's impressive. Welcome, Bobby. Getting around a little around a little 6 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:40.560 around the ball. Hey, we are so blessed to have you here. And we're just going to hear a little 7 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:45.520 bit about your story. Get to know you a little bit and celebrate what the Lord has done 8 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:50.000 through your life. I'm really, really excited. Let's roll the credits and get into the episode. 9 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:58.080 Fire. All right. There we go. Intro done. Was that super random? That was, well, that was my, 10 00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:03.760 yeah, I said I was going to do a super random intro. My random bit was asking Zoe what she was 11 00:01:03.760 --> 00:01:08.480 thinking about right now. Yeah, I was caught off guard to be honest, but that's what I was thinking of. 12 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:13.600 I'm glad we could start to innocent random honest answer though. Yeah, it was an honest answer. 13 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:23.120 Another camera. That's right. Honesty is key. That's true. That's why that's what that's why we would 14 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:32.000 love to hear about your story. Honestly, we would love to hear your story. Bobby, the Lord has 15 00:01:32.800 --> 00:01:42.960 done so much with you, particularly around the you version Bible app. As far as I understand, 16 00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:50.880 you've played, have you played a major role in, in starting that or did you actually pioneer that 17 00:01:50.880 --> 00:01:59.040 just yourself? So definitely wouldn't say just myself, but the vision for it came first, I mean, 18 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:04.880 came to me first. And so I was, I can tell you more about the whole story behind it, but yeah, 19 00:02:04.880 --> 00:02:15.840 I started it back in 2007. It was a website 2008 was the app. Wow. And it's now on a billion 20 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.960 downloads. It's just really in the boxes. Yeah, praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. People want to read 21 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:26.800 the Bible. Yeah, no, it's a humbling thing to be a part of, but I say I started it, but the reality 22 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:33.360 was God used multiple people and obviously have an amazing team that is used. So I don't write code. 23 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:39.760 So I never, I've not written a line of code in the Bible app. No. So I, but I have kind of an idea 24 00:02:39.760 --> 00:02:44.800 in the vision for it and God kind of brought all the right people. Wow. Okay. Well, we're going to 25 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:50.640 get into all the things that are happening right now that are exciting that the Lord is doing 26 00:02:50.640 --> 00:02:57.040 with you and through you. But I'm, I'm really curious. I think our audience probably is as well. 27 00:02:57.040 --> 00:03:07.440 How did that idea of the Bible app first come to you looking back on it now a billion downloads? 28 00:03:07.440 --> 00:03:13.520 That's obviously a really awesome idea that came to fruition. How, how did you kind of come up with 29 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:20.480 that? Yeah. Well, it started actually an airport security line, like a TSA security line in 30 00:03:20.480 --> 00:03:30.800 Chicago back in 2006. It was in actually it was in October, yeah, October 2006. So I was in this 31 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:36.080 long security line, one of these lines that just kind of, because back and forth and then you turn 32 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:40.080 the corner and realize there's a whole other room with people in it. So like you, you think you're, 33 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:47.200 you're through it and you're not even through it. And normally I would be really frustrated because 34 00:03:47.200 --> 00:03:52.080 I don't really have a lot of patience. It seems like for a lot of times like that. But for whatever 35 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:56.720 reason, that particular day, I was asking myself this question. I was like, it wonder if there's a way 36 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:05.280 to use technology to help me read the Bible more consistently. I was a below average, 37 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:11.600 or at least I felt like I was a below average Bible reader, somebody that wanted to have it a part 38 00:04:11.600 --> 00:04:17.440 of my everyday life. But man, I just did not have the right rhythms. And look, I mean, obviously, 39 00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:22.080 there's a lot of excuses and people are like, hey, you could just be more disciplined or you could 40 00:04:22.080 --> 00:04:26.480 just do it. But for whatever reason, I just felt like maybe technology could help me. So I had this 41 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:36.720 idea, this predated apps, so 2006 was before the app store, 2006. So the original idea was not 42 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:44.640 for an app. The original idea was for a website. Whoa. And the concept back then was, it was called 43 00:04:44.640 --> 00:04:52.640 Web2.0 is back where people like were using the internet to be contributors like to make blog posts, 44 00:04:52.640 --> 00:04:57.440 to put, I mean, stuff that's familiar to everybody today. But back then, that was like a new concept, 45 00:04:57.440 --> 00:05:01.360 like you could be your own publisher, you could have your own podcast, you know, that sort of thing. 46 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:08.320 And so I said, I want to make a website that let anybody take any kind of media, any video, any 47 00:05:08.320 --> 00:05:15.520 photo, any blog post and associated with any verse or passage of series of verses in the Bible. 48 00:05:15.520 --> 00:05:22.480 Because I thought people could tell their story about how God's word was like being lived out 49 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:29.920 in their life. So I had this idea, I hadn't seen a website that had done that before. I wanted to 50 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:37.200 be free because I felt like that was also important to have it be free. And then I came up with 51 00:05:37.200 --> 00:05:42.960 the best name that I could come up with for at the airport that day. So the name you version 52 00:05:42.960 --> 00:05:47.920 is literally just the best name I came up with at the airport from the security line to the gate. 53 00:05:48.640 --> 00:05:55.600 That was that you came up with the name you version on that on that day. And I an activator. So 54 00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:02.080 actually registered the domain name you version.com before I got on the airplane that day, which is the 55 00:06:02.080 --> 00:06:06.160 only reason I know what date it was that was in the airport because you could go look on the 56 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:13.280 main registration and see the date that it was registered. And so that's how it actually started. 57 00:06:13.280 --> 00:06:19.040 But very few people know that it was a website because the website failed. 58 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:26.480 No, it all kinds of work into it. Yeah, no, it's a crazy story. So the first the first problem we had 59 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:32.560 was I knew we wanted to build this website. We had no money, no resources. I was part of a church 60 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:37.280 still in the versions of part of a ministry of a church called Life Church. 61 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:46.240 But at that time Life Church had no like extra resources to finances. So with the permission 62 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:51.200 of the leaders, I could start it. But that meant I was like blessed to do it with there's no budget. 63 00:06:51.200 --> 00:06:55.200 That's kind of what that meant, which was not a big deal because that sort of everything was, 64 00:06:55.200 --> 00:07:00.240 you know, back then. And so I had to just kind of bring the vision to people and say, look, 65 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:07.840 could you contribute your time or could you help me code this or design this? And so it was very much a 66 00:07:09.200 --> 00:07:15.280 kind of a side project kind of thing that was going on. And the first problem we had was we actually 67 00:07:15.280 --> 00:07:21.040 needed permission to put the Bible on the website. And most people might be confused by that. I 68 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:25.920 had no idea that people own the Bible. That's how ignorant that I was. I kind of like this book is 69 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:30.000 it's thousands of years. What do you mean people own the Bible? It's a great question. 70 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:36.400 Like so people, the modern translations that you and I read of scripture like in English, 71 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:44.720 someone paid money to have those translations completed. So publisher or Bible society or 72 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:51.520 different groups. And it's not insignificant like they get theologians and just people that are 73 00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:58.640 just really good at studying, understanding the original text that carefully translate the Bible 74 00:07:58.640 --> 00:08:03.600 and it's a process that takes like a long time, you know, years to do a really good translation. 75 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:07.600 Yeah, I just didn't even think about that, you know, at the time. And then of course those 76 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:13.360 publishers, some of them are for profit, some of them are charities are not for profit. But at that 77 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:20.640 time almost all of them, not all, but almost all of them needed royalties from selling 78 00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:26.400 Bibles to help pay an offset the costs, you know, of the translation costs, which made total sense. 79 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:33.040 It's just that I was wanting the app to, or excuse me, the website to be free. And so I need it 80 00:08:33.040 --> 00:08:38.400 and we didn't have any money. So I basically needed a free license to give away for free because 81 00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:43.520 many people as possible, which was not really a very compelling business argument, you know, 82 00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:49.040 to make. And so that was the first problem is we had no idea how to get permission like I tried 83 00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:55.440 calling, but it's like hard to go through the front desk of these big companies trying to get 84 00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:00.960 permission. So it's kind of a crazy story. I'll tell you the very short version of it. But basically 85 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:05.520 I put out a blog post that announced we were going to start the website. This is in 2007. 86 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:13.840 And it was in I think June of 2007. And I announced it and internally it's like with the 87 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:19.840 goal is to get it done in September. The problems we had nobody to work on it. We had no permission. 88 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:23.760 So it was one of these things where it's kind of crazy. We really took a picture of a drawing 89 00:09:23.760 --> 00:09:27.760 of the website and we put it on the blog post and made it sound like it's all happening and it's 90 00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:32.000 coming. And the team looks at me like I'm crazy because they're like, what are you saying? 91 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:38.880 Like we don't have permission, but I mean these things. But God used that blog post to have a guy 92 00:09:38.880 --> 00:09:45.360 that I've never met before at the time in Florida saw the blog post. He called me one to talk to me 93 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:51.440 about it. I told him all about it. He calls another guy that's in our hometown in Oklahoma City. 94 00:09:52.560 --> 00:09:57.520 His name is Mark Green and tells him about it. Mark is me a call. So it's like this whole 95 00:09:58.160 --> 00:10:01.840 thing where right the blog post guy in Florida sees it calls the guy in Oklahoma City. 96 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.720 The guy in Oklahoma City calls me. This happens like a week or two later. 97 00:10:05.680 --> 00:10:11.680 And he starts asking me a lot of questions about it. I had a new of Mark Green, but I'd never met 98 00:10:11.680 --> 00:10:18.000 Mark Green. Mark Green is part of a family that owns a bunch of stores called Hobby Lobby in the 99 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:23.360 United States. And he also owned a chain of Christian bookstores that was like about the largest 100 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:28.720 in the United States. And so Mark says, how can I help you? And I said, I don't know, I don't have 101 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:34.080 permission to use the Bible. That's the first problem. And he says, well, we buy a lot of 102 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:39.760 Bibles from these publishers. So I can at least make an introduction to these companies. 103 00:10:40.400 --> 00:10:45.440 And so he didn't just make an introduction. He introduced me to the CEOs of everyone of these 104 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:51.840 Bible publishing companies, all of them. So literally the probably the best contact in the entire 105 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:58.480 world that I could have had helped me. God used the blog post to introduce him to me. 106 00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:04.480 And so yeah, he made introductions and he said, man, I can't promise you that they'll say yes, 107 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:08.880 but I can at least like could you kind of in the door. So I had meetings with all of them. 108 00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:14.560 And I wish I could tell you that they did say yes. Actually most all of them said the Christian 109 00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:23.840 version of no, which is we'll pray about it. Oh, that's the worst. Yeah. And so, but that's just, 110 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:28.720 you know, I've been told no many times in my life. I was an entrepreneur before all of this. And 111 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:35.680 so I got did have one that said yes. And that was all we needed to start. So we started the website 112 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:43.840 and it launched in September 2007. And like I mentioned before, it failed. We put all this work 113 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:49.040 into it. I got people to volunteer their time. I, you know, we kind of just really a lot of vision 114 00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:54.560 around it. God came through on the Bible translations, all the, you know, like all these things happen. 115 00:11:54.560 --> 00:12:00.160 So it seemed like everything was going great. And then we even had a conference, a big conference 116 00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:05.040 that promoted it for free and told everybody at the conference to go visit the website. So we had 117 00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:10.720 probably 20 or 30,000 people that visited the website in the first couple of months. But they 118 00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:16.960 weren't coming back. And they would go check it out, not come back. We would use the website. But 119 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:22.000 honestly, we were just using it personally because we created it and not because it was like 120 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:29.120 naturally helping us connect with scripture. And so I'm not afraid to start things that fail. 121 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:36.240 And not certainly not afraid to shut them down if they fail. So by December, I thought, you 122 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:40.480 know, this isn't working. And we need to, like we need to put our energy on something that works. 123 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:47.040 And so acknowledge that it failed. But I always want to learn like, why did it fail? And what can 124 00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:52.640 we learn from it? So we went through and sort of list out the things that we think why it failed. 125 00:12:53.520 --> 00:12:58.880 And one of those things on the list was we felt like not having the Bible with us wherever we were 126 00:12:59.920 --> 00:13:05.200 was one of the factors we were missing, you know, on an interesting. And at that point in time, 127 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:10.400 it's hard for people probably watching or listening to this to imagine this. But you're a computer 128 00:13:10.400 --> 00:13:16.400 with a website was something that sat on your desk. It was not a laptop. It wasn't portable. It 129 00:13:16.400 --> 00:13:23.920 like literally was called a desktop because that's where it sat. But we had a smartphone. And at that 130 00:13:23.920 --> 00:13:29.200 time, it was the very beginnings of smartphone kind of revolution. It was before app stores. But 131 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:37.760 the smartphone that was predominant was from your country. The black car. Yeah. And so like almost 132 00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:43.760 everybody had a blackberry. And they were called crackberries because they were like addictive, 133 00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:48.000 you know, like people call them a crackberry. I was trying to figure out why it said crackberry. 134 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:55.600 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It can mean a lot of things. But 135 00:13:55.600 --> 00:14:03.200 that's what it meant. That's what it meant. So anyway, um, yeah. We said what if we just 136 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:11.280 displayed the Bible simply to work on the small screen of a blackberry. And it was profound. 137 00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:16.640 This is now early 2008. And it was profound how that actually changed how we engaged in the 138 00:14:16.640 --> 00:14:21.920 Bible. It was like, it was kind of like we would just stay connected to scripture in places we 139 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:27.440 never even thought about it before. And so, um, and the traffic to the website started to go up 140 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:32.160 from people using their blackberries to access it because we kind of designed it to work with it. 141 00:14:32.800 --> 00:14:37.440 And, um, and so it was really kind of profound. And honestly, I didn't expect it to work. Like, 142 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.920 I was just like thinking this is so small. I still know. Um, and then Steve Jobs, this is now 143 00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:50.000 early 2008. So Steve Jobs comes out and announces something called an app store. And the fact that you 144 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:55.600 could now build apps were going to be able to build apps for the iPhone. So the iPhone had come, 145 00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:01.280 and most people don't know this iPhone first came out and it didn't have an app store. And you 146 00:15:01.280 --> 00:15:07.200 couldn't download apps like it just came with a default set of apps that were on it from Apple. 147 00:15:07.920 --> 00:15:11.520 And so for like the first year, that's all you could do with the iPhone. I mean, it was still 148 00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:17.280 revolutionary touch screen, all that kind of stuff. Um, but the app store became kind of the real, 149 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:22.480 you know, innovation. And that came in 2008. So anyway, we thought we should try to build an 150 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:28.320 app, you know, for the iPhone based on this announcement. The problem was that nobody in our team 151 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:35.520 knew how to build an app. And we had it. We found a 19 year old who loved Apple. And those are 152 00:15:35.520 --> 00:15:41.520 about the only two things back then you had to do is be 19 and love Apple to build an app. 153 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:49.440 And so as a part time project like Knights and Weekends, we worked together to build the first 154 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:57.200 Bible app and submitted to Apple. This is now June of 2008 when we submitted it to them. We 155 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:01.680 honestly didn't know if they would include it in the store. Like it's like it's a Bible. I have 156 00:16:01.680 --> 00:16:06.800 no idea if they're going to go for this and like what they want to do it. And so the app store 157 00:16:06.800 --> 00:16:15.440 launched July 10, 2008. The Bible app was in the app store on the first day. And there was only 158 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:21.200 200 free apps that were available in the app store, which is exactly what we said. We're like, 159 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:25.760 what? I mean, like we thought there'd be, I don't know, I thought there'd be thousands of apps. 160 00:16:25.760 --> 00:16:29.680 Right. Yeah. I mean, just because it's like, why would everybody be building apps and trying to 161 00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:34.720 get in the store? I just think it happens so fast that people didn't move fast enough. Like 162 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:39.280 companies didn't move fast enough to build apps. And I don't think people really knew how big it 163 00:16:39.280 --> 00:16:45.520 would become at that time. We didn't know how big it would become. Right. But because of that, 164 00:16:45.520 --> 00:16:50.400 there were all kinds of people who download the Bible. In fact, 83,000 people installed it in the 165 00:16:50.400 --> 00:16:56.480 first weekend. And we blew our minds like we would never have even thought that'd be possible. 166 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:02.400 Like in a year, let alone like just a weekend. But it was, you know, clear that God was doing 167 00:17:02.400 --> 00:17:10.560 something unexpected. And even more importantly is that we had analytics or the ability to see data 168 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:16.160 of usage. And we could just see that collectively people were opening it. They were not just downloading 169 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:22.800 but opening it. In some cases, multiple times a day. So these, you know, many times in my life, 170 00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:28.080 I've seen not not quite like this, but I've seen God do do things that are unexpected, obviously. 171 00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:32.640 And I've just learned that whenever you see God do something like that, you just have to figure 172 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.960 out a get behind what he's doing. And it was one of those points. So I was like, 173 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:42.160 hey, this is a moment we're supposed to put whatever we've got behind this. And again, 174 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:49.280 we didn't have a lot of resources financially or even people wise, but that Monday after that 175 00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:53.040 weekend, I told the 19 year old, it's like, I don't know what you're working on before. But this 176 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:57.520 is now like your full-time job. Like you got to like, this is it. I think he was like working on 177 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:03.200 Christian camp registration websites or something for the church, for the youth or whatever. 178 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.200 It's like, we'll find somebody else to do that. Like, this is what you need to do. And that was 179 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:12.960 how it began. Do you still know that 19 year old? I still know him. He's not on the team. He went on 180 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:19.920 and worked at Twitter and then multiple other places. Great guy. And God used them kind of at a 181 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:26.800 really kind of obviously super cool time. But yeah, it's a it's a crazy story of what God's done. 182 00:18:26.800 --> 00:18:31.120 And then of course, since then, God's just been been continuing to do incredible things. 183 00:18:31.120 --> 00:18:36.880 I'm really curious to hear about how you felt confident enough to start that website. 184 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:42.880 You briefly mentioned that you were an entrepreneur before. How did that factor into you having 185 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:47.280 like the knowledge that you're like, okay, well, I have these skills, these giftings. I'm going to 186 00:18:47.280 --> 00:18:53.760 use them to build God's kingdom. That's a great question. I don't know. 187 00:18:55.360 --> 00:19:03.360 I don't know that I've ever been very confident. I think just let me kind of back up and I'll 188 00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:08.480 tell you kind of I sing God, do too many things to like not have confidence in him. 189 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:16.640 And it started when like I was very fortunate. I grew up in a family that went to church. 190 00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:25.200 And brought me to church. But I wasn't a follower of Jesus until between my eighth and ninth grade 191 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:31.440 years in school. I don't know how the years work here in the UK. But it's 13 14. 192 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:39.120 Prop, yeah, it'd be about that about 14 years old. Yeah. And it was like one of these profound 193 00:19:39.120 --> 00:19:44.720 like sub like huge changes in my life. Like just who I was when I was at school the year before. 194 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:50.800 It was during the summer, which is our break. And who I came back to school in the US 195 00:19:50.800 --> 00:19:56.400 at high school. I was entering as a freshman in high school. And I was just a different person. 196 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:04.320 I had the same friends, but I was very different. And I wanted to reach my friends. I wanted to 197 00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:09.120 tell them about Jesus. And I didn't know if I had the right vocabulary for it, but that's what I 198 00:20:09.120 --> 00:20:14.400 wanted to do. And I just didn't think my friends had listened to me talk about Jesus. And so I had 199 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:24.240 this idea to write a rap song because all of my friends listened to rap music. And the crazy 200 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:30.880 thing about it was like I had never written a rap song in my life. It sounds just ridiculous, 201 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:39.040 you know, to say it. But I felt like that was what I was supposed to do. And so I did it. 202 00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:44.800 And then God has kind of a sense of humor. But then I went on to be a come a Christian rapper 203 00:20:44.800 --> 00:20:49.600 for five years. No way. Do you remember any of the bars from that first? 204 00:20:49.600 --> 00:20:56.240 Yeah, I do. Like could you give us a line or two? I don't know. This is from the 1990s. 205 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:02.240 You know, like this is like ancient old, like it would just be pretty much embarrassing. 206 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:09.520 Yeah. Yeah. I could do a tiny bit. You know, I'll do it for you just for fun. 207 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:15.200 But I don't know if I've ever done it sitting down. So let me do it. But I'll try. 208 00:21:15.840 --> 00:21:20.880 I'm like late. Let's sit back. But it's okay. It's all right. It's okay. 209 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:26.000 I was ready. She wants to do it. It's like probably more. I'll probably embarrass myself to 210 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:33.440 in this. But I'll do it really quick just so. Well, I'm not on a mission across the ocean. 211 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:37.840 Just letting the world around me see my devotion to Christ. You see, it's not what I say. 212 00:21:37.840 --> 00:21:42.160 But it's how I walk in my life every day because I'm on a mission and I feel right here 213 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:47.280 down on the truth to your ears. So don't just hear all the words, but listen to my heart. 214 00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:51.680 Because we've got to start showing hope. Well, the love of Jesus Christ by each and every day 215 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:55.440 living's loving our life. So many people have searched for the truth, but they never find it 216 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:59.920 because we had inside of us. It's time to let your light shine out because it's the love of 217 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:03.920 Jesus Christ that is all about. So if you've gone dim, it's time to get bright because 218 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:15.040 whoever finds God in you finds life. Oh, my God. That is great though. But that is, 219 00:22:15.520 --> 00:22:20.080 and you actually turned into a rapper then for five years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, it's a ministry. 220 00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:26.400 Like we traveled all over the US. No, you're great. Yeah. Yeah. I would have bought a ticket 221 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:31.280 to that for sure. Yeah. That's probably the only rap I know how to do today. But that's awesome. 222 00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:39.040 But we had it was, but it was such a God thing because you look back and go, man, I didn't know how to 223 00:22:39.040 --> 00:22:45.920 rap. I didn't like God just opened doors and looking back on, I didn't even know this, but like, 224 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:52.480 it was such a great leadership experience trying to lead, we had 15 people that traveled with us 225 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:59.360 and they were all like my age. And so that meant just even getting along like on the road and, 226 00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:02.480 you know, like learning how to lead all that, you know, it's just a big experience. 227 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:12.080 And throughout my life, I would say that every single thing that God's done, you can look back 228 00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:18.400 on it and say, God's used this to shape who I am that then gives me kind of the tools or the 229 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:24.080 experiences that I need to do the next thing, right, that he calls me to do. So it's not really 230 00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:29.440 confidence in my abilities, but it's probably just confidence in like God's calling and God's 231 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:35.200 like where God calls me. That would say is the answer. Because I didn't even plan to be an entrepreneur. 232 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:41.040 So I went from the, I have a sort of Christian wrapper. And then when I went to university, 233 00:23:42.560 --> 00:23:48.320 I really thought God was wanting me to study business. And what was kind of that's pretty common 234 00:23:48.320 --> 00:23:52.880 and normal except for the fact that there were people in my life that thought, man, because you're 235 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:58.880 already in ministry, like with this rap ministry, that God's surely is going to call me into like 236 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:04.880 theology or religion, a degree that makes sense. So feeling like you're called in the 237 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:10.880 business actually felt like I was making a decision that was contrary to the expectations that 238 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:18.080 like people around me had. And people I trust. But if you feel like it's what God's leading you to do, 239 00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:24.000 like you don't have really a choice, or it's what you're supposed to do. But it wasn't easy 240 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:29.600 because it felt like I had to kind of basically go against expectations others had, you know, on me. 241 00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:34.080 But you know, I didn't know why. I just like I've supposed to study business. It wasn't about money 242 00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:38.720 or it wasn't about trying to like I did what there wasn't the purpose. Anyway, so I'm studying 243 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:45.760 business and studying finance. I think that I'm going to go into like investment banking or some 244 00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:52.640 kind of financial planning thing. I had kind of a gifting for just the way I think about finances 245 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:58.160 and all that. So I thought maybe this is what it's supposed to do. Instead God has a different plan. 246 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:04.000 I start working at a car, an automobile dealership, not selling cars, but just in the back office. 247 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:11.520 And it was I took the job just for date money so that I could date who now is my wife at the time 248 00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:17.840 just to I had no money. And it was about I think that it paid like six dollars an hour. 249 00:25:19.280 --> 00:25:24.240 And and so I was bored. It was like one of these jobs where like you get down with it, 250 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:28.720 you just have nothing to do. You're just sitting there watching the clock. And I started listening 251 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:34.480 into the car things in the back office and one of the one time this group from California comes in 252 00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:41.840 and pitches the car dealership on a website like building them a website. This is in 1995. 253 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:47.440 So it's hard for probably anybody that's listening to this to know but 1995 is like so early on 254 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:53.680 on an internet like nobody had websites and it righteous really early. Then I remember they 255 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:59.360 wanted $2,200 to build a website. And so I walked up to the owner of the car dealership. I overheard 256 00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:03.600 the meeting. I wasn't in the meeting. I just like heard it. I walked up to the owner and said Mr. 257 00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:08.960 Bailey, I said if you'll let me build a website for you, I'll do it for $100. And he just looked at 258 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.880 me like sure. You know, and I had the problem was I had absolutely no idea how to build a website. 259 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:21.360 Like I like I wasn't I'm a finance major. I've never built a website. There's no books on how to 260 00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:26.400 build a website. So even websites on how to build websites back then. So I went and found this 261 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.960 guy down the in the dorms down the hall for me. He always had his lights out all night, you know, 262 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:35.680 and he was always like this internet underground kind of guy that just was like a hacker or something. 263 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:40.800 I don't know. And so I just wouldn't talk to him. And he gave me kind of some tips on what I need to 264 00:26:40.800 --> 00:26:45.760 do. So anyway, I went on and built the website for them. They liked it. And then I said we should 265 00:26:45.760 --> 00:26:50.320 build a different kind of website because you're not going to sell cars in 1995 on the internet. 266 00:26:50.320 --> 00:26:57.200 So we built a website selling car parts and accessories for Honda cars called Honda parts.com. 267 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:03.840 And within a few months to owner the car dealership was making hundreds of thousands of dollars 268 00:27:03.840 --> 00:27:10.480 from this website. And he calls me into his office. He's a Christian businessman. He calls me his 269 00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:15.600 office and he said, what do you plan on doing in life? And before I could answer, he goes, whatever 270 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:22.480 it is you're going to do is I want to invest in it. And so I realized this was one of those moments 271 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:28.240 where God was giving me an opportunity that was unexpected. Like I had never thought of myself as 272 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:33.360 an entrepreneur, but this God used a Christian businessman to see something in me that I didn't see 273 00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:39.760 kind of in myself. And so to make a long story short, that was how I got started as an entrepreneur. 274 00:27:39.760 --> 00:27:45.120 I had an investor before I had an idea. And I went and put together a business plan, 275 00:27:45.120 --> 00:27:49.120 started what's called a web hosting company. So all we did was just host websites. That was our 276 00:27:49.120 --> 00:27:56.320 first business. And then I sold it, started another company that was the largest pro wrestling, 277 00:27:56.320 --> 00:28:02.800 professional wrestling website. And I know it's the most eclectic life you've ever heard. Like it's 278 00:28:02.800 --> 00:28:10.240 so random. Yeah, it's really really random. But you know, all the randomness, God, I really do 279 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:15.920 believe orchestrated when you look back on it. So we had this online community, we had an office 280 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:22.560 in New York City, an office in Oklahoma City. And then we sold it in 1999 to a company, the Goldman 281 00:28:22.560 --> 00:28:28.800 Sacks took public. It sold it to a company in San Francisco that was a gaming company that 282 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:35.200 did kind of have a property called IGN.com, which is a game review, does video game reviews. 283 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:40.720 Yeah, I know. Anyway, so so we sold it. And I thought, this is what God designed me to do. 284 00:28:41.360 --> 00:28:47.520 He designed me to start and sell companies. I was 23 at that time. And I'd already sold two 285 00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:53.840 companies. And so I thought, man, I have favor in this. This must be like God's plan. And maybe 286 00:28:53.840 --> 00:29:00.240 for the kingdom, my role is to be like a resource partner, like to just invest in kingdom ministries. 287 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.880 But God had a different plan. Because on that second company, I was selling or it's not selling, 288 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:11.440 I was my wife and I got involved in a church called Life Church. Like we moved to part of town, 289 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:16.080 and we wanted to get connected to a great church. Someone told us about this church called Life 290 00:29:16.080 --> 00:29:22.080 Church, Pastor Craig Rochelle started it. It was at that time three years old. We're just meeting 291 00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:27.600 in a building. It was like the most raw, awesome church experience I'd ever been a part of. 292 00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:33.440 We're just see like God changing lives and just every week. It was just so rich and awesome. 293 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.680 So I started playing keyboard on the worship team as a volunteer. And then when I sold the 294 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:44.880 company, the article came out in the paper and the pastor of the one of the pastors of the church, 295 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.640 saw the article and said, isn't that the guy that plays keyboard on the worship team? Because 296 00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:55.360 he had my picture in the paper and all this. And anyway, and he wanted to go to lunch. 297 00:29:55.360 --> 00:29:59.680 And I thought initially he wanted to go to lunch to help me calculate what 10% was on the number 298 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:06.400 he saw that we sold the company for in the paper. But of course, my wife and I are happy to give. 299 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:10.320 That's not the issue. But instead, he said, he'd be ever considered using what you're learning 300 00:30:10.320 --> 00:30:15.840 in business. We've experienced a business in the church. So interesting. And so I had never 301 00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:21.520 considered it. But that lunch changed my life because it like it put something inside of me. 302 00:30:21.520 --> 00:30:27.920 I had no idea that God could use the way that I think in my giftings in the church. Like I 303 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:34.880 didn't know that was possible. And over the course of the next year, I volunteered 10, 20, 30 304 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:40.800 hours, 40 hours a week and serving in other ways in the church because the church, our church 305 00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:47.840 is very low tech. But I had all this understanding of technology. So anyway, that's how God led me then 306 00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:54.720 on staff of the church in 2001. And then I've been on staff for, I don't know, was it 24 years now? 307 00:30:55.520 --> 00:31:01.040 And so and then I'm looking back on all of that. Sorry, I gave you a long story. But looking back on it, 308 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.400 I could see like each of those steps in the journey, even though they don't seem like they're all 309 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:13.200 connected together. God used all of that to kind of shape my experiences and my creativity and my 310 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:19.200 ideas to do what we do today. So things like doing church online, like online community for church. 311 00:31:19.760 --> 00:31:25.520 We started that in 2006. That was inspired by the pro wrestling website. I mean, I saw this online 312 00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:32.400 community. And I was like, this is like a thriving community like technology can be used to bring 313 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:39.120 people together and not just to create actual community, not just to convey information or content 314 00:31:39.120 --> 00:31:45.600 or all that, but to be. And this was this predated social media and the ways that we see technology, 315 00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:52.800 you know, trying to connect us to each other. And so things like the Bible app and those things 316 00:31:52.800 --> 00:31:57.920 all are like a product of all these unique experiences that God gave me. And so anyway, 317 00:31:58.320 --> 00:32:04.320 with the short answer is it's not confidence in me. But when you seek out do things over and over 318 00:32:04.320 --> 00:32:11.760 again in your life, you have confidence in him. And what I've learned is sometimes and many times, 319 00:32:11.760 --> 00:32:18.080 God seems to ask me to do unexpected things. But when he does that, I mean, my responsibility is 320 00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:22.400 just to step into it. I don't have the answers. I don't like know what it's going to turn into. 321 00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:28.800 Never would have ever expected that we'd be celebrating a milestone of a billion devices and 322 00:32:28.800 --> 00:32:34.400 stolen the Bible app. I mean, not not then, not right after then, not a year later. I mean, 323 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:38.480 like it's been one of these journeys that you just kind of take it step by step. 324 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:45.200 I love that idea that the Lord uses every experience that we have. Even 325 00:32:45.280 --> 00:32:53.840 if the one you regret, he'll actually use those two. I'm curious in terms of the website failing, 326 00:32:54.400 --> 00:33:02.480 because I think for me, I really struggle and I've found more and more as I take on responsibility 327 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:11.120 in things in life and as an adult, that the things that I find most difficult to see the Lord 328 00:33:11.120 --> 00:33:19.200 using are my own failures. And really where I thought he was moving and where I thought he'd 329 00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:26.800 gifted me, seeing that not come to fruition is like difficult for me. So I guess like, 330 00:33:27.600 --> 00:33:34.400 I'm curious a how the Lord used that in your story, that the failure of the website. But also, 331 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:44.960 like I guess just what would you say to me and anyone who's kind of experiencing failure 332 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:57.360 and feeling like they're not maybe, yeah, I don't know, like God's can't really use the failure. 333 00:33:57.360 --> 00:34:04.960 Sure. Well, I think it's, first of all, it's understandable. None of us love failing. 334 00:34:05.760 --> 00:34:13.040 At least I've found a person that loves failing. We like to take the fruit of what we do and hope 335 00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:19.920 that we see fruit from it, right? And that we see it quickly sometimes. I can just only share from 336 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:25.040 the experience I have, which is, you know, I've lived life a little bit longer, you know, 337 00:34:25.040 --> 00:34:31.040 than you have just a tiny bit. I still feel like I'm young, but I'm reminded all the time that I'm not. 338 00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:39.200 But you have the benefit of looking back and seeing what God does over a longer period of time. 339 00:34:39.200 --> 00:34:46.800 And that is always been helpful. But like the example of the website is something that in retrospect, 340 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:55.760 it's really easy to see how we were positioned with our eyes open to the opportunity of the 341 00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:02.880 App Store and the opportunity to move quickly to have it in the App Store. Only because we did 342 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:08.720 that website that failed. Wow. Like the hurdle of getting permission to use the Bible text. 343 00:35:09.520 --> 00:35:14.000 Like if we were standing there when Steve Jobs announced that there's going to be this App Store 344 00:35:14.080 --> 00:35:17.600 and all that and we had to go out and figure out how to get permission to use the Bible text 345 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:22.080 and do all of that in that three month window of time wouldn't have happened. But like we were 346 00:35:22.080 --> 00:35:28.720 positioned because of the journey God took us on. But that didn't mean that it felt good in the 347 00:35:28.720 --> 00:35:34.160 moment. Because in the moment you're asking all the same questions like, God did we miss you 348 00:35:34.160 --> 00:35:41.040 right on this. Why did you help us overcome so many obstacles only to have it not work? 349 00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:50.080 And so I think there's just a trust that comes in the same way that we kind of blindly sometimes 350 00:35:50.080 --> 00:35:55.120 take steps of faith where God calls us. The step even though we don't know what the step is going 351 00:35:55.120 --> 00:36:00.400 to yield. I think there's times where we have to approach our failures in the same way. It's like 352 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:06.880 gotta get a trust that you're going to use this. And it doesn't mean that we're also humans. 353 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:12.480 Sometimes we do get it wrong and sometimes our motivation isn't pure and sometimes there's 354 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:17.920 times we're stepping outside of God's will. But God has such grace that even when we do that 355 00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:24.320 he often times even uses those parts of our story and journey to kind of equip us to help 356 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:30.880 someone else, equip us to learn something that we can apply if we just like surrender all of it 357 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.000 to him. So that's why I say it's not just highlights that he uses. It's also the regrets of the 358 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:40.960 things that you're like, man, I made all these mistakes and what could God possibly do with 359 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:44.720 that terrible time of my life that I made those mistakes? It's like he can do a lot 360 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:49.680 because there's a lot of people that are getting ready to make those same mistakes or wow, 361 00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:56.160 or it could be that he shaped something in you that gives you the ability to see something that 362 00:36:56.160 --> 00:37:01.200 others can't see. So there's a lot of trust that comes in that though. Like you can't like to 363 00:37:01.200 --> 00:37:05.440 answer your questions like you can't always see what the failure is going to do and you can always 364 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:08.880 see what the learnings from the failure are going to do when you're standing in the failure or 365 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:16.640 standing at that point. But I can just tell you with confidence that I've seen God do it over and 366 00:37:16.640 --> 00:37:22.560 over again, not just in my life, but in others. So anyway, so yeah, I think now I do think that 367 00:37:23.120 --> 00:37:27.840 acknowledging failure is something that a lot of people don't like to do. But I find that the 368 00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:34.320 learnings from failure oftentimes only come when you acknowledge it. But I mean by that is like 369 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:39.520 the fear of failing a lot of people talk about the fear of failure as this fear that keeps you 370 00:37:39.520 --> 00:37:44.720 from taking a step into something because you're afraid I might fail. Like oh, I don't want to start 371 00:37:44.720 --> 00:37:49.920 a business because I might fail. I don't want to. I find for a lot of people that the fear of failure 372 00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:55.280 is the fear that keeps you from stopping something that's not working more than it is that keeps you 373 00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:00.000 from starting something. That's so interesting. You know, because when you stop it is when you actually 374 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:03.680 have to acknowledge that it failed because you can keep pretending that it hasn't, you know, 375 00:38:03.680 --> 00:38:09.600 up to that point. But it's only after that you acknowledge it. It's okay, this failed. 376 00:38:09.600 --> 00:38:14.640 That you can go deep enough and understanding why it failed because if you just kind of feel like 377 00:38:14.640 --> 00:38:19.600 it just keeps needing to be tweaked or changed or just modified a little bit, you will never go down 378 00:38:19.600 --> 00:38:26.080 and say what if the actual whole idea is wrong? Like the whole approach. And you're not willing to 379 00:38:26.080 --> 00:38:30.320 go there sometimes if you're not willing to acknowledge failures. I don't know. I mean, 380 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:34.480 I'm far from perfect. There's times that I'm like hold onto something too long or wait too long. 381 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:40.960 But I find that when I'm quick to kind of acknowledge when something doesn't work and humble 382 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:45.680 enough to acknowledge it because our pride is sometimes the thing that keeps us from, you know, 383 00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:50.800 being willing to do that. I learned so much more when I'm willing to be that open. 384 00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:56.480 Yeah, my dad always used to say to us as kids, you either win or you learn. 385 00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:04.080 Yeah. There's no losing. That's only a perspective. I thought that was that just reminded me of that 386 00:39:04.080 --> 00:39:10.080 I used to say that. I always hated him saying that. But I realized now that he's right. 387 00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:15.840 I just took a little bit of growing up. That's so cool. I 388 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:22.000 threw you sharing your story. I'm just hearing like you were just consistently obedient to the 389 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:27.440 voice of God, like all throughout your journey. And even him calling you to do business when 390 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:31.680 everyone around you was like questioning you and being like, why are you doing that? 391 00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:35.680 Or you should do this. You should do that. Things that didn't make sense to the world, 392 00:39:35.680 --> 00:39:42.880 but made sense to you because you were listening to God. How did you foster that relationship with God 393 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:48.000 at that time where you knew that it was his voice that was calling you to do this thing? 394 00:39:48.640 --> 00:39:55.840 And how can you encourage our viewers, our listeners who are wanting to know themselves? 395 00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.200 How can I deepen my relationship with God to know where he's telling me to go? 396 00:40:00.240 --> 00:40:08.640 Yeah, I think first I want to say it sounds like I consistently was obedient all the time 397 00:40:09.600 --> 00:40:24.560 because I get to tell the story. The reality is sometimes I was slow and wasn't responding as 398 00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:30.240 quickly to what God's prompting as I should have. I first want to say that because I don't want 399 00:40:30.240 --> 00:40:37.840 to paint the picture that it's just been constant, consistent obedience because I'm just, 400 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:44.240 because that's the truth. The answer to your question now is it's like any relationship. 401 00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:54.240 Like it is fostered through communication and consistency. And I think kind of building a 402 00:40:54.240 --> 00:41:00.880 relationship with God is just like any other relationship. In the way that you build a relationship, 403 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:08.400 it's like presence, consistency, conversation, which to some people might sound unusual, 404 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:14.160 but unless you've experienced it, you know, and then they're just trying to be in tune with the spirit 405 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.480 which can happen through his word, you know, through actual reading scriptures, 406 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:26.400 like such an awesome way to hear God's voice that I think too many people overlook because they 407 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:34.880 don't realize it's there to speak to them today. And then, and then I think, you know, for me, 408 00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:41.360 it's sort of probably more through what I would say is like informal prayer, you know, I'm not like 409 00:41:42.080 --> 00:41:49.600 formal prayer, like let's all pray, but more like prayer in the shower or conversation, you know, 410 00:41:49.680 --> 00:41:56.480 in different contexts, I feel like that's where God speaks to me. Sometimes it's through worship 411 00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:04.320 because I, because I'm on staff at a church, it would, I think it's more about private worship 412 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:09.200 for me sometimes. I don't know why, but like in the public context, which I love worship, 413 00:42:10.560 --> 00:42:16.000 because it's related to my job, I get distracted looking at the things that need to improve, 414 00:42:16.080 --> 00:42:19.680 for the distract, you know, things that might be distracting others, and so I'm distracted. 415 00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:26.720 So it's different, but sorry, you put it in the microphone. But it happens in these moments. 416 00:42:28.080 --> 00:42:33.120 And so like even the coming on staff of the church, so the initial lunch conversation, 417 00:42:33.120 --> 00:42:39.520 the pastor, his name's Jerry Hurley, he asked me if I would, if I've ever considered coming 418 00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:44.560 on staff of the church, I said, no, he said, well, would you consider it? I said, no, 419 00:42:45.520 --> 00:42:50.560 because I love my church, and I just thought if it became my job, that it wouldn't be the same, 420 00:42:50.560 --> 00:42:54.560 and it was kind of a selfish reply, but that was like what was going through my head. 421 00:42:55.680 --> 00:43:04.400 So it took, it took a year before I really felt clearly that God was saying, I want you to step 422 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:10.560 out of this entrepreneurial space and step on staff of the church. So it wasn't like, now, 423 00:43:10.560 --> 00:43:17.040 it culminated into a moment where I remember exactly kind of the moment where I felt like God said, 424 00:43:17.040 --> 00:43:22.480 this is what I want you to do, but it was a conversation before it was a moment. 425 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:31.600 And it was a process, you know, but when I reached that moment, then there was clarity, 426 00:43:31.600 --> 00:43:36.800 and it was clear, it wasn't the audible voice of God, like I could hear it, like in that level. 427 00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:45.040 Most of the time, it's not audible like that, but it's clear. And I just, at that point, knew, 428 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:52.640 and once I get to that level of conviction about it, then it's actually very easy at that point, 429 00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:57.680 because then you're like, you're too many times in my life, I know, and that's true, 430 00:43:57.680 --> 00:44:02.880 that I just have to step into it, you know, and doesn't matter the cost, doesn't matter the 431 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:09.680 consequence, doesn't matter all those things, because you're operating out of a sense of confidence 432 00:44:09.680 --> 00:44:15.120 in God's calling and direction. So in that particular case, what happened to is I came back to 433 00:44:15.120 --> 00:44:18.480 the pastor and said, look, I've been volunteering, but I really feel like I'm supposed to come on 434 00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:22.880 staff, like we talked about a year ago, is that still possibility? And they said, of course, 435 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:29.760 the next week, I got offered an opportunity from a local venture capitalist that had a company 436 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:33.600 that they had funded, and they wanted me to come run it, and they were going to offer me, 437 00:44:35.040 --> 00:44:40.880 almost like the perfect scenario for what I would have wanted to do was the next week. 438 00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:47.680 And it was almost so clear that it may be even more confident, not less, you know, because I 439 00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:53.920 was like, this is clear, because I have normally this would have been the most attractive thing 440 00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.120 that I would have jumped into, because I know this is where God called me to be, and because I'm 441 00:44:57.120 --> 00:45:04.160 going to turn this down, like it was even maybe more confident, God's calling. Sometimes what happens 442 00:45:04.160 --> 00:45:11.280 also is the, you also face opposition, you know, like, and that's also confirming, like the moment 443 00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:15.280 you step into God's calling, like immediately there's some kind of spiritual attack or there's 444 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:22.080 something that is so clear, but then it does the opposite, and maybe because it just tells me 445 00:45:22.080 --> 00:45:27.520 that means we're making the right decision, like that means that it's actually true. So, 446 00:45:28.720 --> 00:45:36.640 so anyway, but to answer your questions, it's an ongoing conversation, it's prayer, it's his word, 447 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:47.120 and I wish that it was like go and I go and do and I do. It's not always that quick, and I'm 448 00:45:47.120 --> 00:45:51.360 embarrassed sometimes when it's not, but I do think of the other right posture, like God, where do 449 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:57.360 you want me to go today? Help me to have eyes to see the things you want me to see today, or the 450 00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:03.040 people you want me to see today. And if I'm disciplined enough to start my day that way, it's 451 00:46:03.040 --> 00:46:12.560 amazing what he does, but unfortunately sometimes I'm not, but when I do and consistently do, it's 452 00:46:12.560 --> 00:46:20.400 amazing. Thank you. That was awesome, and also reminds me of the quote where it's like God doesn't 453 00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:26.240 call the qualified, but he qualifies the called, and it's like all we have to do is listen, 454 00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:31.360 and that won't always look like a yes, I'm running, we try not to have a Jonah moment, but 455 00:46:33.040 --> 00:46:39.760 see that God could use Jonah so he can use all of us. Absolutely, and he, you know, most people I 456 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:44.800 talk to, they feel a bit inadequate to do what God's called them to do, and that's usually the 457 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:50.960 hesitation that they have, right? They say God could use someone else. I'd heard someone, it's been 458 00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:56.000 quite a while, but they talked about the Hebrew word, and I'm not a Hebrew scholar, I wish I 459 00:46:56.800 --> 00:47:03.040 was a Hebrew or Greek scholar, but they had this word for humility that's often times translated 460 00:47:03.040 --> 00:47:08.880 as humility, called anaba, and I might be pronouncing it wrong, so if I am just somebody can fix it. 461 00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:19.120 But one of the other ways that word besides humility is defined is to occupy your God-given space 462 00:47:20.080 --> 00:47:26.400 in the word anaba, and a lot of times when we think about humility, we oftentimes think about not 463 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:31.840 exceeding the boundaries of our space, like being less than, but not not being more than, 464 00:47:32.640 --> 00:47:39.520 that's sort of like a posture, but that definition, that Jewish definition of that word, 465 00:47:39.520 --> 00:47:44.560 is really interesting if you think about it, it's like no, it's to occupy your God-given space, 466 00:47:44.640 --> 00:47:53.040 not more and not less, but to step into that space and occupy it, and so I teach that to all of 467 00:47:53.040 --> 00:47:57.920 our new team members, new staff that join our team, because it's like, look God's got a space for 468 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:03.360 you, and that space will change over time, like he's called you to something today and may call 469 00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:07.840 you to more, may call you to something different, but you have a responsibility to occupy it, 470 00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:16.880 to fully embrace it, and he will equip you and has equipped you probably more than you realize, 471 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:22.640 but will also will equip you to do the thing that he's called you to do, but you still have to 472 00:48:22.640 --> 00:48:29.040 kind of embrace it, and in shirking away from it or trying to say no, no, no, and whether it's 473 00:48:29.040 --> 00:48:33.120 real humility or false humility or whatever it might be, but just trying to say no, no, 474 00:48:33.200 --> 00:48:40.880 someone else can do it, he's purposed that for you, and if you're not occupying it, he will 475 00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:48.000 ultimately use someone else, but he wanted to use you, and then other problem people, 476 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:54.080 they always want someone else's space, they start thinking like, man, but if I can do something 477 00:48:54.080 --> 00:48:59.040 significant for the kingdom, I would be able to do something like Zach does, because Zach, he's 478 00:48:59.600 --> 00:49:04.560 studying to be a youth faster, his youth faster, and studying theology and all things, and that 479 00:49:04.560 --> 00:49:12.800 sounds like what a real like, that's a big space, I want his space, and it's just not, that's also 480 00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:18.240 a lie, you know, and whatever God's called you to is the highest calling, 481 00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:24.720 there's not a higher calling, like Billy Graham's calling isn't higher, or wasn't higher, 482 00:49:24.720 --> 00:49:31.040 so yeah, my calling's not higher, so our job is just to be where God calls us, and to do 483 00:49:31.040 --> 00:49:35.600 God's calls us to do, and we have nothing else to worry about, like that's really the focus. 484 00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:42.960 We're chatting before about how you've got, there's a Bible month coming up, the month of November. 485 00:49:43.120 --> 00:49:54.640 Yeah, I guess like how does that fit into what the Lord is calling you into right now, and how are 486 00:49:54.640 --> 00:50:01.600 you responding to that, and maybe do you feel inadequate in what the Lord is calling you to right now? 487 00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:10.640 Yeah, I'll start with the last part of the question, I always feel inadequate at some level, 488 00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:18.720 I mean, there's so many times where I feel like, like the same thing I was just saying, 489 00:50:18.720 --> 00:50:24.320 and just to encourage people, maybe it doesn't matter what I've been a part of, or seen, 490 00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:30.320 there's still many days where I feel like God, there's got to be somebody better than me to do this, 491 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:35.760 and I have to kind of remind myself, yeah, but God's called me to do it, so I need to step into it. 492 00:50:37.600 --> 00:50:41.600 To answer your question, there's so many amazing things happening right now, it's like the most 493 00:50:41.600 --> 00:50:49.040 exciting time. I've been doing the Bible app now for 17 and a half years, since the app, you know, 494 00:50:49.040 --> 00:50:54.880 launched, which is a long time, it's probably longer than like some people are old that are listening 495 00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:03.760 to this, which makes me feel really old, but normally on something like that, you would think 17 and 496 00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:10.160 a half years in, you would probably have seen the peak, it's like a lot of things, you know, they grow, 497 00:51:10.160 --> 00:51:16.400 but they have kind of their season and all that, but the most engagement we've ever seen in the 498 00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:23.440 Bible is happening like right now, like last week, like not like right now, like last month was 499 00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:29.040 the biggest month ever for a Bible engagement on the version Bible app, and I think the last like 500 00:51:29.040 --> 00:51:35.200 eight or nine weekends have been the highest days of like the top 15 days or something that happened 501 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:41.040 in the last couple of months, and so it's like a story of what God's doing right now and it's 502 00:51:41.040 --> 00:51:47.600 super exciting because it's a global story like you see happening here in the UK where people are 503 00:51:47.600 --> 00:51:55.120 turning up to church and like ways that you've not known, it's like seen in gears. There's a hunger 504 00:51:55.120 --> 00:52:00.080 for the Bible that's happening, we see it digitally, but it's also in print Bibles, I mean print 505 00:52:00.160 --> 00:52:04.720 Bibles sales just through the roof and a lot of them are from Gen Z and people that are much 506 00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:12.320 younger that people presumed wouldn't be interested, you know, in the Bible, but that's so exciting 507 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:18.640 because there's like a hunger. I feel like what we see happening with AI has there's a lot of 508 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:24.800 exciting things that are happening with AI, but at the same time, like there's a generation, 509 00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:31.120 your generation and my children who are growing up for the, they don't know any differently than 510 00:52:31.120 --> 00:52:36.880 to like question the truth of everything that they see, like just by default, like is this even real 511 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:41.760 is this true? We never really had to do that when we were growing up, like if you used to be able to 512 00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:48.000 say, I saw it with my own eye, so I know it was true, and today you can't like say that right, 513 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:54.000 because there's so much content, and my son who's 17, he's like actually really good at discern 514 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:58.560 anything, it's been created by AI, like he has AI job, he can like get to that's AI, that's AI. 515 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:06.400 But for a lot of people, you can't, and in regardless, we have this or inundated with so much 516 00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:13.760 content that is not true. So the byproduct of that though is a really good thing, which is that 517 00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:20.800 people are searching for something that's true. And so what's awesome about this time is it's 518 00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:28.560 like sort of built for the Bible this moment, because you say, I've got something in the Bible 519 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:34.960 that is, I mean, it's been passed down from generation to generation from thousands of years, 520 00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:41.600 carefully translated as we were just talking about earlier. And it's unique, there's nothing 521 00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:46.720 like in its category, even if you're not a believer, if you're just sort of like what kind of 522 00:53:46.720 --> 00:53:52.720 source of truth can I trust it existed before all this time, right? You know, and it's the same. 523 00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:59.200 And like, like this month at the Museum of the Bible in the United States, the Dead Sea Scrolls 524 00:53:59.200 --> 00:54:05.600 are on display. And so you can actually look at the content on Dead Sea Scrolls, which is artifact 525 00:54:05.600 --> 00:54:09.680 from thousands of years ago. And you can see that the words that that we read in our Bible are 526 00:54:09.680 --> 00:54:17.680 consistent with what's an artifact from thousands of years ago. And so generations have trusted 527 00:54:18.560 --> 00:54:24.640 this truth. So even if you don't talk about it from just even a spiritual context, but just simply 528 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.080 from the source of truth, you realize that this is one of the reasons I think people are turning 529 00:54:30.080 --> 00:54:35.280 to the Bible in this time is that they see it as sort of the antidote to the problem that they see 530 00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:40.400 happening kind of with culture and what's out there. And so I think it's an exciting time. 531 00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:46.320 And we are celebrating a milestone of a billion devices. And I'm normally terrible about celebrating 532 00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:51.760 things, but honestly, like I just don't like, I mean, I like celebrations, but I don't like 533 00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:58.720 celebrating things that we're doing because it just feels like it's about us. And when we did half 534 00:54:58.720 --> 00:55:02.640 a billion, it reached that milestone. I think we had a dinner with 30 people. That was our, 535 00:55:02.640 --> 00:55:06.800 that was our party to celebrate it because we're just like on to the like there's more people 536 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:12.080 that need it. And there's more people that need to reach. But I felt like at this point, we've 537 00:55:12.080 --> 00:55:17.840 given all that's happening globally, it would be a miss for us not to make this a data point that 538 00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:24.400 we celebrate to the world about the Bible and just said, look, and the Bible's live. And it is, 539 00:55:25.040 --> 00:55:29.600 and we're just one piece of evidence along with all those things I just mentioned that are happening 540 00:55:29.600 --> 00:55:36.480 and more. So we thought we want to just use the, the part of this milestone to get the attention 541 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.480 of media, to get the attention of people that normally wouldn't pay attention to the Bible, 542 00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:45.840 and say we want to draw attention to the Bible. So, so we declared November as global Bible month. 543 00:55:46.720 --> 00:55:51.200 And I say we declared it. It just, we had to come up with something. So we just said here's, 544 00:55:51.200 --> 00:55:57.680 we're going to call them month this. So like in the US, Amazon Prime is celebrating global 545 00:55:57.680 --> 00:56:03.120 Bible month. Amazon Prime video. And they're going to feature Bible, Bible videos on the home screen 546 00:56:03.120 --> 00:56:10.720 and all this stuff. We've got Times Square that's lit up on the Bible on November 1st. 547 00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:18.000 So it just happened. And then, and then you can see, you can see the Bible on the sphere 548 00:56:18.720 --> 00:56:24.000 in Las Vegas. So yeah, we got all kinds of, all kinds of exciting things in Brazil and 549 00:56:24.080 --> 00:56:29.040 Christ the Redeemer, the statue. There's like projection mapping, you know, on, I don't even know 550 00:56:29.040 --> 00:56:34.080 you could do that, but that's apparently happening. And then, and we have all these people taking 551 00:56:34.080 --> 00:56:39.920 what we're calling the 30 day Bible challenge to in November to start reading the Bible for 30 days 552 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:44.320 straight. So you might have tried everything else. Why not just try reading the Bible for 30 days. 553 00:56:45.200 --> 00:56:50.960 So you can, do you use a print Bible? You can use the Bible app. How low, glorify, all these other 554 00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:55.520 apps are doing it with us. And they're kind of challenging everybody to do 30 days in the Bible. 555 00:56:56.560 --> 00:57:01.840 So it's just really designed to bring attention to the Bible. And on November 17th, we're doing 556 00:57:02.720 --> 00:57:09.360 a big event. We're doing it in our MBA arena in Oklahoma City. And we got, it's sold out 557 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:14.720 of them. We got like 14 or 15,000 people that are coming. And it's like a three hour celebration 558 00:57:14.720 --> 00:57:19.280 of the Bible that we're going to broadcast on TV and in the app. And that is also it's going to 559 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:25.440 be fun. But we're, we're doing it not to celebrate any milestone that we've achieved. 560 00:57:26.640 --> 00:57:30.720 We're doing it because we just want to celebrate the Bible. We want the whole world to know 561 00:57:30.720 --> 00:57:36.240 you know about it. And so your question was what's God showing me or I can't remember exactly 562 00:57:36.240 --> 00:57:41.840 how you phrased it or what it's crazy calling me to do today. I felt like this was something that 563 00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:47.360 I was leading us to do about this, maybe nine months ago or 10 months ago, because we were just 564 00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:51.520 going to go by this milestone, like, like any other. And it was going to be like 30 people in a 565 00:57:51.520 --> 00:57:57.120 dinner. And I said, no, no, I think this is supposed to be a moment for the Bible, like something 566 00:57:57.120 --> 00:58:03.120 that we can be a part of. And as soon as just to kind of encourage people that are wondering like 567 00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:07.680 all the doubt, like the first thing with you in my head was that's probably going to cost a lot 568 00:58:07.680 --> 00:58:13.680 of money and we're going to get the money, you know, to do that. And I just began sharing this 569 00:58:13.680 --> 00:58:17.520 vision. I wasn't trying to raise money or anything. I just was like talking about it, just 570 00:58:17.520 --> 00:58:21.600 saying, man, I think we're supposed to have a moment for the Bible in the teams like it's 571 00:58:21.600 --> 00:58:24.640 just going to be expensive. It's like, I know, I know, but I don't mean I just think we're supposed 572 00:58:24.640 --> 00:58:29.360 to have a moment for the Bible. I didn't know what all it would entail. And I remember back in 573 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:36.080 January, I literally see the phone call out of the blue from somebody and they said, I heard what 574 00:58:36.160 --> 00:58:43.680 you said about creating a moment for the Bible. And we want to give you, it was a very large sum of 575 00:58:43.680 --> 00:58:50.400 money to help you do that because I know that when it comes to the budget, you're going to be 576 00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:55.040 wanting to like pull back on some of these ideas. And I just think you're supposed to do it. 577 00:58:55.040 --> 00:58:59.680 And so God provided the resources before I even was thinking we need, I mean, I wasn't really 578 00:58:59.680 --> 00:59:04.800 processing really needed to do it. But we've seen God do that in our story over and over again, 579 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:09.280 where he kind of brings the finances. I always know he brings his resources to his vision. 580 00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:15.280 And our job is just to really be in tune with what he's asking us to do. So that's right now, 581 00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:20.880 but obviously our focus is not on reaching a billion, but it's not well beyond that. 582 00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:27.120 Our vision is God's word, everyone, everywhere, every day. And so it's got three 583 00:59:27.120 --> 00:59:33.280 every's in it, which makes it basically impossible. But that's okay, right? Because that just 584 00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:40.080 means we're going to keep after it and keep pursuing it. We want that, we want that for everyone 585 00:59:40.080 --> 00:59:46.000 globally. So anyway, so that's that's that's what's right in front of me and what we're working on 586 00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:51.120 and what God's asking us to do right now. Praise the Lord. So are you are you in? 587 00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:58.960 I'm so I'm in November. I'm I'm there every day, 30 days. That's right. That's so inspiring. 588 00:59:59.680 --> 01:00:02.640 Wow, well, if that doesn't make you want to read the Bible, I don't know what is. 589 01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:10.400 Yeah, this is the time now more than ever to just get stuck in with the word and to get to know 590 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:17.200 Jesus. And he's he's living and breathing through this right here, which is so powerful. Well, 591 01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:23.440 thank you so much, Bobby, for coming on. Thank you. And you've just fed us so much and the Lord 592 01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:30.960 is using you. And his testament is tried and true. We praise him for that. So we give all the 593 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:40.320 glory to the Father and good people of the way get into this. November's the month. We're going 594 01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:46.160 to do it together, zoning out beyond it, Bobby will be on it. And we're just going to be connecting 595 01:00:46.160 --> 01:00:53.120 with Jesus. Let's press in. And I appreciate you watching. Put a little, is there a Bible emoji? 596 01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.680 There's a cross emoji. There's a cross emoji. Maybe we should try to get a Bible emoji. 597 01:00:57.680 --> 01:01:01.840 That'd be good. We should work on that. That'd be awesome. A Bible emoji. Maybe put like a 598 01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:07.200 put like a book emoji in the comments and the cross. Yeah, I like that. Yes, we know it's 599 01:01:07.200 --> 01:01:14.800 it's both together. I'm just getting studious in the comments. I appreciate you guys for joining us 600 01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:18.320 and we will see you next time. We out.