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You've written one of the best-selling books in history about habits,

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because people always need more practical help with implementing their habits.

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And I have different strategies and different tools to have a stick,

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including one principle that is probably the single most important for building habits.

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But so much of it is about mastering the art of getting started.

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Let's get started then.

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James Clear is one of the world's leading habit experts.

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This is educating millions to build lasting habits, master goal setting,

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and ultimately redesign their lives.

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There are four different stages that every habit goes through.

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Q, craving, response, reward.

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So first, I want to make it obvious.

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Easier to see or get your attention,

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the more likely you are to act on it.

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The second is about the craving.

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It's all about making it attractive.

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And the more engaging or exciting it is, the more likely to stick with it.

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The third is to make it easy.

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The easier habit is to perform, the more likely it is to happen.

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And then the fourth and final ones is to make it satisfying.

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And that's about increasing the odds that you do it next time.

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And there's some tools that we can go through.

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But one of the big takeaways from the atomic habits is it's easier to build a new habit

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if you stack it on top of the habit you're already doing.

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So let's say that your current habit is you make cup of coffee.

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And the new habit that you want to build is you want to start meditating.

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So then you can say, all right, after I make my morning cup of coffee,

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I will meditate for 60 seconds.

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And you can do it for anything.

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There's also a framework that I call hats, haircuts, and tattoos,

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and secret to winning, habit shaping.

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And real lesson of getting 1% better every day.

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And we can talk about all of them.

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But is there any frameworks, any tactics?

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If you're trying to break a habit.

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If you want to break a bad habit, there's some things that you can do.

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James, the book is shaped 10s and 10s and 10s and 10s of millions of lives.

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Is there anything you look back on that you regret?

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If I could add something, I would add this.

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Because if you really want to make progress again and again,

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if you want to get to the top and stay at the top,

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you need to be able to...

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Just give me 30 seconds of your time.

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Two things I wanted to say.

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The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show

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week after week means the world to all of us.

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And this really is a dream that we absolutely never had

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and couldn't have imagined getting to this place.

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But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started.

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And if you enjoy what we do here,

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please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly

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and follow us on this app.

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Here's a promise I'm going to make to you.

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I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can

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now and into the future.

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We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to

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and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.

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Thank you.

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James, you've written thousands and thousands of things,

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but one particular thing you wrote called Atomic Habits is

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one of the best selling books in history.

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It is rumoured to be potentially in the top 100 books that have sold

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in history of all time, but also rumoured to be

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potentially the youngest book to make the top 100 books in history.

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My question is, what has the success of Atomic Habits taught you about the nature of

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humanity and humans?

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We all have habits.

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We all need habits.

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It's an interesting concept because it is both universal in the sense that we all have them,

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we all need them, but it's also highly individual.

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Your habits feel like your habits, not mine.

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It's both universal and specific, and that's an interesting contrast.

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I think it leads to one of the reasons why people are so interested in the topic.

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We all have them.

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We all need them.

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We all feel like they're our own.

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We want to come up with our little version of them.

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But the habit also is like an entrance ramp to how you spend your time in other ways,

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like the habit of pulling out your phone.

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That habit might only take two seconds to do, but then it might dictate what you do for the next hour.

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You know, your answering emails or browsing social media or playing a video game or whatever.

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And it was really the initial habit of pulling out the phone that shaped what that hour did.

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So the influence of our habits is enormous.

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In a lot of ways, your results in life are kind of a lagging measure of the habits that

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precede them.

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Your knowledge is a lagging measure of your reading and learning habits.

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Your bank account is a lagging measure of your financial habits.

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Even silly stuff, like the amount of clutter in your living room is the lagging measure

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of your cleaning habits.

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And so we all, so badly want our outcomes to change.

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We also badly want our results to change,

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but the results are not actually the thing that needs to change.

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It's like fix the habits and the results will fix themselves,

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change the inputs and the outputs will shift automatically.

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And it's funny because the book has shaped tens and tens and tens of millions of lives,

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but it also must have shaped you in some ways.

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Oh, of course.

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In a way, I had to learn the concepts to write the book.

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Like, I had to build writing habits to write the book.

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The fact that I have struggled with habits and failed with them,

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the fact that I've tried things and it has worked out,

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the fact that I have eventually broken through and I've been able to build habits,

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that all of that made the book better.

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Because you realize how hard it is to have something practical to say.

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I actually think I have this little theory that a lot of books are branded as how-to books,

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but they're actually what-to books.

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They tell you what to think.

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You should be confident.

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You should believe in yourself.

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You should take XYZ action.

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But they don't actually tell you how to do those things.

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And in hindsight, is there anything you look back on that you regret about the book?

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I don't think there's anything that I regret.

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If I could add something, I would add something.

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I would add this simple question, which is what would it look like if this was fun?

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What would it look like if your habits were fun?

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Like, the most common news resolution is to do some form of exercise.

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So, you know, I feel like a lot of people are going to the gym in January,

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because they feel like they should go to the gym or society wants them to go to the gym,

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you know, or there's some kind of social pressure to go to the gym.

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But if we were to come up with a list of what it means to be active and fit, you know, and healthy,

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we could come up with a long list of things.

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Go to the gym and lift weights.

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You could kayak, rock climb, do yoga, Pilates, but like, you know,

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we could probably sit here for like 15 minutes and come up with a real long list.

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And for most of your habits, if it's an important habit to you,

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I think it's worth it to take 10 minutes and write that list out.

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And then look at it at the end and say, what would this look like if it was fun?

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What are these options is the most fun to me?

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And that doesn't mean that your habits will be like the most fun thing that you do each day.

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You know, it's not like it's always going to feel like going to a concert or something,

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but it does mean that pretty much any habit can be more fun than the default.

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You know, so you might as well take a little bit of time to figure out what is the fun version of this.

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And ultimately, I think the reason why this matters is that if you're having fun,

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you're more likely to stick with it.

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You're more likely to persevere.

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The person who's having fun is actually the person who's dangerous.

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Like, you don't want to compete with them because they're having a good time.

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When it gets difficult, they're way more likely to stick with it.

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The person who it felt like a hassle at the start was kind of, you know, annoying.

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They sort of have a negative frame around the behavior to begin with.

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Well, as soon as it gets difficult, they didn't want to do it in the first place.

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So they're much more likely to give up.

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David Epstein, who's the author of Range and Sports Genes,

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friend of mine, he told me once grit is fit, grit is fit.

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And what he means is that everybody wants to be gritty.

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They want to persevere.

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But the way that you display that grit and discipline and perseverance

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is in areas where you are well suited, where it's a good fit for you.

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If it's a good fit, if you're well suited for it, if you're having fun,

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if you're interested and engaged, then you're way more likely to stick with it.

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And so in a lot of ways, I feel like the biggest hurdle to clear,

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and this is true maybe for life in general, but definitely for habits,

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because everybody wants to be consistent with their habits.

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Everybody wants to stick to them.

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The biggest hurdle to clear is, are you interested?

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Are you engaged?

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Are you having fun?

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And so the more that you can get closer to that, the more fun it can be,

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the more likely you are to persevere and stick with it.

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I was just thinking about this idea actually the other day,

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because I was writing, when we hit a subscriber milestone,

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I was trying to think about what actually mattered the most.

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And one of the first thing I wrote was,

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creating the conditions to outpassist.

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And what I mean by that is create the conditions,

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so that you can do this for long enough that things start compounding in your favor,

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like learning starts compounding in your favor,

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like the returns, like the subscribers,

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or that could be your finances, whatever start compounding in your favor.

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The question that you asked is very similar to one that I asked myself a lot,

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which is, am I creating the conditions for success?

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So I have a really good stretch of training in the gym,

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and then about two and a half years ago, I was in pretty good shape,

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and then I had a year where it was just like really inconsistent.

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I missed a lot of workouts, things sometimes that go well,

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sometimes it wouldn't, whatever.

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And after that year, I was like, okay, so I got to change something.

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And on the surface, you look at it and you think,

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I'm having trouble with the workouts.

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You think there's some problem with exercise.

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But that was actually not the problem.

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The problem was I wasn't creating the conditions for success.

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And so there were lots of other things that were intervening

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and like making interrupting my day and making it easy for me to miss.

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So this last year, I hired a trainer,

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and he shows up at 11am every four days a week.

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And when he gets there, every single time, it's a hassle,

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because I'm in the middle of something.

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Right, every time I've got something going on,

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and I kind of am like annoyed by it that he's there.

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But we're creating conditions for success,

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and then make sure that I get down there, and I do it.

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And then every time when I get down with the workout,

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I'm like, I'm glad I took the time to do that.

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And so nothing really needed to change with the workout.

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That was not the problem.

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The problem was I didn't have the right conditions

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to start the workout.

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And so I think this actually reveals a really deep and important thing

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about habits, which is so much of it

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is about mastering the art of getting started.

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It's making it easy to start.

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In a way like probably 70% of what's in atomic habits

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are different strategies and different ideas

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and different tools that help you get started,

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or makes starting easier.

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This trainer who I've been working with now,

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he came over the other day, and he told me,

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yeah, I had a class in the morning.

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Eight people were supposed to come.

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But it was like, it was a pretty gross day.

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It was like rainy and wet and kind of cold.

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And only two people showed up.

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And I was talking to him about it,

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and I said, what's interesting to me about that

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is how little of an edge you need to gain an advantage.

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You know, really what we're talking about there

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is you just need to be okay with being inconvenienced

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or uncomfortable for like five to ten minutes,

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getting dressed, getting through the rain,

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getting into your car, getting the gym.

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The workout is the same that it's always been.

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It's the same, you're in the same gym

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that you are in the summer,

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or one that weather's beautiful, or whatever.

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So it's really, can you handle that

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like five minutes of inconvenience?

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And so many things in life are like that.

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Can you master that little moment?

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And if you can, and you can still get started,

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that's when you gain an advantage.

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Everybody works out in the good days.

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But on the days when you feel stressed and tired,

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on the days when the weather's bad,

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and it's kind of inconvenient,

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on the days when you don't really feel like it,

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can you show up?

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Even if it's in a small way,

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one of my little mantras that I try to keep in mind

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is reduce the scope and stick to the schedule.

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So the normal scope might be, I write for 30 minutes,

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and then you look up at the clock and I can only have 15.

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And sometimes what happens in your head is you're like,

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oh, I don't have enough time to write today.

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Or you're like, oh, I was planning to work out for 60 minutes,

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and you look up and you're like,

248
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time got away from me.

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I only have 20 minutes now.

250
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I don't have time to go to the gym.

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It's easy to talk yourself out of it.

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But, reduce the scope,

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but stick to the schedule.

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It's like, well, I only got 20 minutes instead of 60.

255
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So I'll just get in there and do a couple sets of squats.

256
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And that's it.

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And I've had so many workouts that have been like that,

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where you're like, almost, you know,

259
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it's easy to be kind of disappointed

260
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if you weren't able to do the whole thing that you wanted to do.

261
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But you didn't throw up a zero.

262
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And if you don't throw up a zero,

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you maintain the habit.

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And if you maintain the habit, all you need is time.

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And so the bad days are more important

266
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than the good days in that sense.

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You need to figure out how do you show up

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even when it's not optimal.

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And that first five minutes,

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yeah, I was thinking about all the first five minute battles

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that I've won over the last week.

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Because I've lost track of my workout.

273
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I've been traveling through Asia on this tour

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I've been doing, got back,

275
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fallen off.

276
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The motivation doesn't seem to be quite the same

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as it was before I left.

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So it's like I'm dragging myself there.

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The workouts are like four out of ten.

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But I went.

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Yeah.

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And now I think the momentum is building.

283
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But that first five minute point,

284
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is there anything that you've learned

285
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.640
any frameworks, any tactics for making sure

286
00:12:18.640 --> 00:12:20.240
you get past that first five minutes

287
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you can get into the flow of the habit?

288
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Yeah, there's multiple things.

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So first thing is try to prime the environment

290
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to make the first action easy.

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Prime the environment to make the first action easy.

292
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So let's say writing, for example,

293
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I find that for myself,

294
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the biggest point of friction is choosing what to write about.

295
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Once I've actually finally settled,

296
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this is the thing I'm writing today,

297
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then I can get into it and I'm often running.

298
00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:45.760
But I'll sit there for two hours

299
00:12:45.760 --> 00:12:47.440
just debating whether it's the right thing

300
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:48.720
to be focused on writing or not.

301
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:49.840
Should work on this chapter,

302
00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:51.600
should I work on something else or whatever.

303
00:12:51.680 --> 00:12:53.360
So what I've started to do is sometimes

304
00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:55.120
I will write the first sentence

305
00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:56.640
of what I'm gonna write and just leave it

306
00:12:56.640 --> 00:12:58.200
on the Google Doc right there.

307
00:12:58.200 --> 00:12:59.200
And then leave.

308
00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:00.760
And the next day when I come back,

309
00:13:00.760 --> 00:13:01.920
I'm already in, right?

310
00:13:01.920 --> 00:13:03.800
Like it's already the first sentence is already written.

311
00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:06.400
So now I'm just writing the next piece of what's coming

312
00:13:06.400 --> 00:13:09.280
rather than trying to choose what to write about.

313
00:13:09.280 --> 00:13:11.320
Another one that I've done sometimes is I will write,

314
00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:12.480
sometimes I'll write the topic

315
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.280
or I'll write the sentence on a posted note

316
00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:16.320
and I'll put it on top of the keyboard.

317
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.720
And so when I come into the office,

318
00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:18.680
it's right there in front of me.

319
00:13:18.680 --> 00:13:21.440
I can't, you know, I got to pick it off the keys

320
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:23.040
to log on to the computer.

321
00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:23.880
And so it's like,

322
00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:25.840
remember, this is what you're writing about right now.

323
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.760
So it's just trying to make it easy to get in.

324
00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:29.200
I have a bunch of readers who do stuff

325
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.320
like set their running out or running close out the night

326
00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:32.960
before, you know, so they're right next to the bed.

327
00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:34.320
You got your clothes and your shoes there.

328
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:37.120
I have one woman I just talked to her at an event.

329
00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:38.200
She came up after her and she said,

330
00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:39.880
I actually sleep in my running clothes

331
00:13:39.880 --> 00:13:42.080
and just get out and put her shoes on

332
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:43.320
and goes right up the door.

333
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:44.760
But you're trying to prime the environment

334
00:13:44.760 --> 00:13:46.040
to make the action easy, okay?

335
00:13:46.040 --> 00:13:48.960
So how can you set up the spaces that you're in

336
00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:50.280
to prime those habits?

337
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.320
I think one really interesting question to ask,

338
00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:56.080
walk into the rooms where you spend most of your time each day,

339
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.840
your office, your living room, your bedroom,

340
00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:00.720
and then look around and ask yourself,

341
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.520
what is this space designed to encourage?

342
00:14:03.520 --> 00:14:04.960
What behaviors are easy here?

343
00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:06.840
What behaviors are obvious here?

344
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.600
And the good habits that you say you want to build

345
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:11.320
are those the path of least resistance?

346
00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.400
Is that the obvious thing in this environment?

347
00:14:13.400 --> 00:14:15.280
And if not, maybe you can make some adjustments

348
00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:16.800
to try to make the good have it easier

349
00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:19.520
and the distractions maybe a little bit harder.

350
00:14:19.520 --> 00:14:21.400
So that's first thing, prime the environment

351
00:14:21.400 --> 00:14:22.760
to make the action easy.

352
00:14:22.760 --> 00:14:26.000
Second thing is, if there's like one principle

353
00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:27.720
that is probably the single most important

354
00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.160
for building habits, it's make it easy.

355
00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:31.960
Just scale it down and make it easy.

356
00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:34.360
I refer to it sometimes as the two minute rule.

357
00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:36.640
So take whatever habit you're trying to work on.

358
00:14:36.640 --> 00:14:37.720
You scale it down to something

359
00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:40.000
that takes two minutes or less to do.

360
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.720
Read 30 books a year becomes a read one page

361
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.760
or do yoga four days a week becomes take out my yoga mat.

362
00:14:46.760 --> 00:14:48.840
Sometimes I will mention this to people

363
00:14:48.880 --> 00:14:50.320
and they resisted a little bit, they're like,

364
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:53.800
okay buddy, another real goal is just to take my yoga mat out.

365
00:14:53.800 --> 00:14:55.440
I'm actually trying to do the workout.

366
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.320
So this is some kind of mental trick

367
00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.280
and I know it's a trick, then why would I fall for it?

368
00:14:59.280 --> 00:15:01.400
Basically, but there's this guy,

369
00:15:01.400 --> 00:15:03.640
I mentioned him in the time of Cavitz, his name's Mitch.

370
00:15:03.640 --> 00:15:06.840
And he went to the gym and for the first six weeks,

371
00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:08.800
he had this strange little rule for himself

372
00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:12.200
where he wasn't allowed to stay for longer than five minutes.

373
00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:14.240
So he'd get in the car, drive the gym, get out,

374
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.200
do half an exercise, get back in the car, drive home.

375
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:19.280
And you're like, this sounds silly, right?

376
00:15:19.280 --> 00:15:20.680
Clearly this is not gonna get the guy,

377
00:15:20.680 --> 00:15:22.240
the result city wants.

378
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.000
But what you realize is that he was mastering

379
00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:26.440
the art of showing up, right?

380
00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:28.080
He was becoming the type of person

381
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:29.680
that went to the gym four days a week,

382
00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:31.920
even if it was only for five minutes.

383
00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:35.360
And so I think this is kind of a deep truth about Cavitz,

384
00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:37.680
which is a habit must be established

385
00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:39.280
before it can be improved.

386
00:15:39.280 --> 00:15:41.000
It has to become the standard in your life

387
00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:44.120
before you optimize and scale it up into something more.

388
00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.080
There's that quote from Ed Latimore

389
00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.800
who says the heaviest way to the gym is the front door.

390
00:15:48.800 --> 00:15:51.640
There are a lot of things in life that are like that.

391
00:15:51.640 --> 00:15:54.960
And so by trying to make it easy to master,

392
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.360
to easy to get started, then you're in the game.

393
00:15:58.360 --> 00:15:59.240
Now you're in the arena.

394
00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:01.240
There's all kinds of things you can improve from there.

395
00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:03.400
I remember Jordan Peterson saying,

396
00:16:03.400 --> 00:16:06.800
talking about his, some of his clinical patients

397
00:16:06.800 --> 00:16:08.080
and referring to him in particular,

398
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.840
who was in a room full of junk and couldn't leave the room

399
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.520
because of a certain fear and certain psychological problems

400
00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:16.680
and Jordan saying that day one,

401
00:16:16.680 --> 00:16:18.720
they just broke the hoover into the room.

402
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:19.680
And that was it.

403
00:16:19.680 --> 00:16:22.400
Day two, they plugged the hoover in and that was it.

404
00:16:22.400 --> 00:16:25.040
And then by day like 30, the guys out of the room,

405
00:16:25.040 --> 00:16:26.880
the room is clean and he's walking around outside

406
00:16:26.880 --> 00:16:29.240
for the first time in months or years.

407
00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.760
And he goes on to say that the reason why people don't get started

408
00:16:31.760 --> 00:16:34.360
is because the first step is so embarrassing.

409
00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:36.000
People think that it's not worth it

410
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.600
or that it's like shameful to do.

411
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.320
It's almost like patronizingly embarrassing.

412
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.160
And I've always kept that in mind since then

413
00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:44.680
and from your work as well,

414
00:16:44.680 --> 00:16:48.280
just that assume the first steps are like embarrassingly small.

415
00:16:48.280 --> 00:16:50.200
There's this process called habit shaping,

416
00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:52.680
which is basically like that.

417
00:16:52.680 --> 00:16:54.440
You know, like if you want to run a half marathon

418
00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.640
the first day, the step might be to put on your running shoes.

419
00:16:57.640 --> 00:16:59.640
And then the second day, the step is to like walk outside

420
00:16:59.640 --> 00:17:00.640
the front door on the third day,

421
00:17:00.640 --> 00:17:02.160
the step is to go around the block.

422
00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:03.920
And you know, you're just like gradually shaping

423
00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:05.840
into this larger habit.

424
00:17:05.840 --> 00:17:07.840
But there's this thing that happens

425
00:17:07.840 --> 00:17:10.000
when people think about building better habits.

426
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.800
I think particularly ambitious people,

427
00:17:12.800 --> 00:17:16.080
it's very easy to get excited about all the changes you could make.

428
00:17:16.080 --> 00:17:18.680
You start thinking, even if you don't say this explicitly,

429
00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.600
you think like what would peak performance look like?

430
00:17:20.600 --> 00:17:22.600
You know, if I could really get my habits dialed in,

431
00:17:22.600 --> 00:17:23.520
what could I do?

432
00:17:23.520 --> 00:17:25.960
And you start imagining five, six, seven things that you would do

433
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:27.120
and what all of them would look like

434
00:17:27.120 --> 00:17:29.280
in their perfect form and so on.

435
00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:32.240
And I think instead of asking ourselves,

436
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.280
what could I do on my best day?

437
00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:35.720
It's better to start by asking,

438
00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.120
what can I stick to even on the bad days?

439
00:17:38.120 --> 00:17:39.680
And that becomes your baseline.

440
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.280
That becomes the first step.

441
00:17:41.280 --> 00:17:44.440
And now that you have this floor that is achievable,

442
00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:46.400
even when you're tired, even when you're exhausted,

443
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.440
even when you don't have much time,

444
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.040
now you can show up and feel like you're succeeding.

445
00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:52.920
You know, and then you can progress from there.

446
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:54.520
One of the most motivating feelings

447
00:17:54.520 --> 00:17:56.920
to the human mind is feeling a progress.

448
00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:58.440
If you feel like you're making progress,

449
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.360
even if it's smaller than what you ultimately hope to do,

450
00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:03.200
you have every reason to move forward.

451
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.640
But often we become like a victim of our expectations.

452
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:08.920
We spend all this time optimizing the perfect plan

453
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.360
and then expect things to go perfectly out of the gate.

454
00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:13.280
And you had it so built up in your mind

455
00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:14.680
that once you don't hit that mark

456
00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:18.080
in the first or second or third day, it falls apart.

457
00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:19.080
Hmm.

458
00:18:19.080 --> 00:18:21.520
And you talked earlier about sitting there

459
00:18:21.520 --> 00:18:24.120
for two hours, thinking about what to write.

460
00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:26.320
I think I've learned through business

461
00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:27.600
and in the first iteration of my career,

462
00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:29.080
where I worked with CEOs and executives

463
00:18:29.080 --> 00:18:31.080
that were planning marketing campaigns

464
00:18:31.080 --> 00:18:33.800
that actually in hindsight, often the biggest cost

465
00:18:33.800 --> 00:18:34.800
it wasn't being wrong.

466
00:18:34.800 --> 00:18:36.400
It was the time you waste making a decision.

467
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.640
You see this and if you've ever,

468
00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:39.680
you've interacted with so many big corporations.

469
00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.280
Like they spend 18 months thinking about

470
00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:44.280
get waiting for Joanna to come back from annual leave

471
00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:46.480
to get procurement to sign off the thing.

472
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.640
And I worked with this one particular founder

473
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:49.800
during that season of my life

474
00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:52.640
who I was working with his dad and him

475
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:54.440
and his dad would take nine months

476
00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:56.360
because the company was so big.

477
00:18:56.360 --> 00:18:58.920
His son would interrupt me halfway through the idea

478
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:01.200
and call us all in and say do it now.

479
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:03.240
And he taught me that actually in life

480
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.960
that the biggest cost is the time you waste making the decision.

481
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.920
And I think about that with my own habits.

482
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:09.640
I think sometimes sitting around thinking

483
00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:11.480
about whether I'm gonna run today

484
00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:13.640
is costing me much more than doing okay.

485
00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:16.160
And do you think about how you kill that mental debate?

486
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.240
Is that an effective strategy to try and kill the debate

487
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.960
and not make a decision, per se?

488
00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.040
Yeah, so speed is perpetually undervalued, that's for sure.

489
00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:24.080
Life is short.

490
00:19:24.080 --> 00:19:25.640
And so the sooner that you make decisions,

491
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:27.080
the sooner you get information.

492
00:19:27.080 --> 00:19:29.720
Now I will say I have a little framework

493
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.240
that I call hats, haircuts and tattoos.

494
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:34.000
And this is how I kind of think about it.

495
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.840
So a lot of decisions are like hats.

496
00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:38.760
Just try one hat if you don't like it,

497
00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:39.880
take it off and try another.

498
00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.160
Just real quick, you know, you get some information,

499
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:43.520
speed is most important.

500
00:19:43.520 --> 00:19:45.760
Move quickly, get some information, learn something.

501
00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:47.760
If it was wrong, it's not that big of a deal.

502
00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:49.840
Just take it off and put a new hat on.

503
00:19:49.840 --> 00:19:51.600
Haircut is a little bit trickier.

504
00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:54.760
It's a decision that you have to live with for a little bit.

505
00:19:54.760 --> 00:19:56.880
You know, like you're okay if you get a bad haircut,

506
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.080
but you're gonna have to live with it for a month or two.

507
00:19:59.080 --> 00:20:00.520
You know, it's gonna take a little bit of time

508
00:20:00.520 --> 00:20:01.320
for it to grow out.

509
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:03.960
And so it's probably not a big deal

510
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:05.600
to be scared of getting a bad haircut.

511
00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:07.560
I think a lot of people probably talk themselves out of it.

512
00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:09.840
It's like, you'll be fine in a month, it's fine.

513
00:20:09.840 --> 00:20:11.040
Tattoos are trickier.

514
00:20:11.040 --> 00:20:12.040
You know, you get a tattoo,

515
00:20:12.040 --> 00:20:14.160
you gotta live with that choice, it's permanent.

516
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.400
And so if really what we're getting at here is,

517
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:20.160
is the choice reversible or is the choice irreversible?

518
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.160
If the choice is easy to reverse,

519
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:24.320
speed is most important, you should move fast.

520
00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:26.760
If it's hard to reverse and you gotta live with it,

521
00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:29.960
then you think carefully before you make the call.

522
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.000
And I think probably what you're seeing

523
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:33.240
through some of your experiences,

524
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.080
is that most decisions in life are hats and haircuts.

525
00:20:36.080 --> 00:20:38.040
It's very rare that you end up with a tattoo.

526
00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:39.760
But we treat them all like tattoos.

527
00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:42.080
Yeah, I think in particular,

528
00:20:42.080 --> 00:20:46.680
we are scared, particularly the bad haircuts, I think.

529
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:48.520
The ones that linger for just a little bit,

530
00:20:48.520 --> 00:20:50.640
but not that long, it's gonna take you a month

531
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.520
to fix this if you get it wrong,

532
00:20:52.520 --> 00:20:55.080
but that's fine, a month's gonna pass anyway.

533
00:20:55.080 --> 00:20:56.960
And so it's not that big of a deal,

534
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.320
but we act like it's bigger deal than it is.

535
00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:00.840
Is there a particular case study or story

536
00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:03.880
from a atomic habits community member

537
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:05.840
or someone that reads your newsletter

538
00:21:06.800 --> 00:21:09.320
that has been the most impactful for you?

539
00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:10.640
There's not a single one.

540
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.400
There are lots that I'm like proud of

541
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:14.720
or really excited by, once I'm surprised by,

542
00:21:15.800 --> 00:21:17.360
I heard from a guy the other day,

543
00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:21.000
he was the head coach at St. Olaf's University in Minnesota,

544
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.480
and men's soccer.

545
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.280
And when he came in, their record was something like five

546
00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:28.720
and 13 and they were near the bottom of the standings.

547
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.760
And he was like, I read a atomic habits right around

548
00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:32.880
the time I took this job,

549
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:35.040
and we came up with systems for everything we did.

550
00:21:35.040 --> 00:21:37.480
We taught our players systems for how they tie their shoes

551
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:38.960
and cleats to get ready for the game.

552
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.880
We taught them systems for how they prepped for practice.

553
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.080
We taught them systems for their role in the field,

554
00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:47.360
and gradually they improved each year, five and 13,

555
00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:48.480
then they went like eight and eight,

556
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:49.520
and then the next year after that,

557
00:21:49.520 --> 00:21:51.160
they won the conference, and then the year after that,

558
00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:52.800
they went to the NCAA sweet 16,

559
00:21:52.800 --> 00:21:53.760
and then five years later,

560
00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:55.320
they won the national championship.

561
00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:57.480
You know, of course, stuff like that's awesome to hear about,

562
00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:58.920
right? You know, like they went from,

563
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.440
they went from five wins, and then five years later,

564
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.000
they win the national title.

565
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.560
But the ones that matter to me the most

566
00:22:06.560 --> 00:22:08.800
are the ones that I hear from somebody,

567
00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:12.880
and they say, I finally feel better.

568
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.880
You know, I feel different.

569
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:15.840
I look in the mirror and I'm like proud of who I am,

570
00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:18.200
or my kids tell me that they're excited

571
00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:20.720
to see, you know, the change in me, or things like that.

572
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:22.360
And that's what it's always been about.

573
00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:23.960
You know, it's always been about becoming the type

574
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:25.320
of person that you want to be.

575
00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:28.840
And so I think any time I hear stories like that,

576
00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:29.840
I think it's exciting.

577
00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:32.040
So when was it a coach, or was it?

578
00:22:32.040 --> 00:22:34.600
Yeah, Travis Wallace, the head coach at St. Olaf's.

579
00:22:34.600 --> 00:22:36.360
He's a head coach at Kenyan now.

580
00:22:36.360 --> 00:22:38.400
So he talked about systems there.

581
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.160
Most of us think about to do lists and goals

582
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:42.080
and those kinds of things.

583
00:22:42.080 --> 00:22:45.000
What is the difference between a system and a goal?

584
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:46.640
I was very goal driven for a long time.

585
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:47.920
I mean, I probably still am.

586
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:49.800
You know, I don't think there's any way to get around

587
00:22:49.800 --> 00:22:51.560
the fact that we all have goals

588
00:22:51.560 --> 00:22:53.800
and think about the outcomes we want and so on.

589
00:22:53.800 --> 00:22:57.160
But a goal is about the outcome that you want to achieve

590
00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:59.640
and a system is about the process for getting there.

591
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.200
And so your goal is the target, the outcome,

592
00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:03.640
the thing you're shooting for.

593
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.360
Your system is the collection of daily habits

594
00:23:06.360 --> 00:23:07.640
that you follow.

595
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.160
And if there is ever a gap between your goal and your system,

596
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.360
if there's ever a gap between your desired outcome

597
00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:18.360
and your daily habits, your daily habits will always win.

598
00:23:18.360 --> 00:23:21.600
And so almost by definition, your current habits

599
00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:25.200
are perfectly designed to deliver your current results.

600
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.240
You know, if you want to see like where you're going to end up,

601
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.680
just follow the trajectory of your habits.

602
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:31.320
You know, what's the process you've been running

603
00:23:31.320 --> 00:23:33.240
for the last six months or two years?

604
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.480
And they've carried you almost inevitably

605
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:37.800
to the outcomes that you have right now.

606
00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:39.280
Now, I'm not saying that habits are the only thing

607
00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:40.440
that matter in life, right?

608
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:43.760
Like strategy matters, luck, randomness,

609
00:23:43.760 --> 00:23:46.840
those misfortune, those things can influence the outcome.

610
00:23:46.840 --> 00:23:50.240
But by definition, luck and randomness

611
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.440
are not under your control and your habits are.

612
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:55.760
And the only reasonable, rational approach in life

613
00:23:55.760 --> 00:23:58.640
is to focus on the pieces that are within your control.

614
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.960
So I think goals can be good for setting a sense of direction.

615
00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:04.280
They're good for clarity, especially if you have a team

616
00:24:04.280 --> 00:24:06.440
get everybody rowing in the same direction.

617
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.000
But once you've decided what the goal is,

618
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.800
you should basically set it on the shelf,

619
00:24:11.800 --> 00:24:13.800
metaphorically speaking, and spend the vast majority

620
00:24:13.800 --> 00:24:15.800
of your time focused on building a better system.

621
00:24:15.800 --> 00:24:17.680
How are the habits we're executing each day,

622
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.560
moving us closer to this outcome that we want?

623
00:24:20.560 --> 00:24:23.400
And so after talking about this for five or six years now,

624
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:25.440
since the book's been out, where I've come down

625
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:29.040
and it is, goals are best for people who care about winning

626
00:24:29.040 --> 00:24:31.040
once, systems are best for people who

627
00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:32.760
care about winning repeatedly.

628
00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:34.760
If you really want to make progress again and again,

629
00:24:34.760 --> 00:24:37.080
if you want to get to the top and stay at the top,

630
00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:39.640
you need some process for staying up there.

631
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.000
Some collection of habits is going to keep this machine running.

632
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.040
So this is why I say in the book, we

633
00:24:46.040 --> 00:24:47.440
don't rise to level of our goals.

634
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.680
We fall to level of our systems.

635
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.160
Where as you were talking, I was thinking so much

636
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.880
about business and founders and entrepreneurs

637
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:55.880
because they all have big goals.

638
00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:59.800
We want to build the best AI app or the best, I don't know,

639
00:24:59.800 --> 00:25:01.280
restaurant.

640
00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:02.840
And they stay really focused on those.

641
00:25:02.840 --> 00:25:04.280
But the greatest founders that I think

642
00:25:04.280 --> 00:25:06.200
have met and interviewed on this show

643
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.400
are actually really orientated on what you call

644
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.520
in the book, First Principles and Systems.

645
00:25:11.520 --> 00:25:14.480
Is there a way to become more orientated

646
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:16.920
towards systems and thinking about First Principles?

647
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:19.520
Is there the habits that lead to the goal?

648
00:25:19.520 --> 00:25:23.120
Or is it just some people have it?

649
00:25:23.120 --> 00:25:25.400
Because Elon Musk is always talking about First Principles

650
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.400
and he thinks in times of building the system.

651
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:29.480
I do think some of it is personality

652
00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:32.120
and what's exciting to you to think about.

653
00:25:32.120 --> 00:25:33.840
Some people are very future oriented

654
00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:35.840
and thinking about what the systems are

655
00:25:35.840 --> 00:25:38.360
and what that would lead them to and so on.

656
00:25:38.360 --> 00:25:39.880
Or more process oriented.

657
00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:41.280
But there are a number of questions

658
00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:43.760
that you can ask that can help you figure out

659
00:25:43.760 --> 00:25:46.040
what systems you should be focused on.

660
00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:47.880
So like a couple of the ones I like,

661
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:49.800
one question is, can my current habits

662
00:25:49.800 --> 00:25:52.360
carry me to my desired future?

663
00:25:52.360 --> 00:25:54.720
You have a bunch of habits you're following right now.

664
00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:56.160
What path are you on?

665
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.920
Can your current habits take you there?

666
00:25:57.920 --> 00:25:59.880
And they could be either way.

667
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:02.440
Sometimes the answer is yes and what you need is patience.

668
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:04.720
You just need to keep staying on the path.

669
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:05.880
But sometimes the answer is no.

670
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:07.840
And then obviously something needs to change.

671
00:26:07.840 --> 00:26:09.200
You're hoping for one outcome,

672
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.400
but then you're following a different lifestyle.

673
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:13.440
So to want the outcome without the lifestyle

674
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.040
is to torture yourself.

675
00:26:15.040 --> 00:26:19.240
And what really matters is not do you want the result?

676
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.280
Anybody would like the result if you just handed it to him.

677
00:26:21.280 --> 00:26:23.320
The question is do you want the lifestyle?

678
00:26:23.320 --> 00:26:24.720
One of the little things I try to do

679
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.200
whenever I have a new business project

680
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:27.200
that I'm thinking about or something

681
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.440
I'm excited about potentially doing.

682
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:32.640
The first question I ask is how do I want to spend my days?

683
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.480
And so then you draw a box and inside that box

684
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.560
how can we make the most money,

685
00:26:38.560 --> 00:26:40.920
reach the most people, make the biggest impact,

686
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:42.560
make the contribution that you want to make,

687
00:26:42.560 --> 00:26:43.840
but not outside of it.

688
00:26:43.840 --> 00:26:44.960
And what happens a lot of the time

689
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.400
is people do that in reverse.

690
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:48.680
They start by asking how can we make the most money

691
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:50.920
or reach the most people or make the biggest impact.

692
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:53.400
And then they decide, oh, this is what I want to do,

693
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.000
but it's actually outside of how they want to spend their days.

694
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.200
And it's not going to work out well

695
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:00.800
because it goes back to our point previously about

696
00:27:00.800 --> 00:27:01.880
is this fun.

697
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:03.960
If they don't want to spend their time that way

698
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:05.440
you're just grinding for a little while

699
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.000
and eventually it's not going to work.

700
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.600
That's the key for building systems that really work

701
00:27:09.600 --> 00:27:11.760
is this how you want to spend your days.

702
00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:13.720
The person who wants to live the lifestyle

703
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:16.120
is much better positioned to get the result.

704
00:27:17.040 --> 00:27:20.320
You say that there are multiple problems with goals.

705
00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:23.320
As I guess it's a rubric for thinking about

706
00:27:23.320 --> 00:27:24.920
what to do or what to aim for.

707
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.160
One of them is that when is in loses have the same goals.

708
00:27:29.080 --> 00:27:30.480
Everybody wants the results.

709
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.280
Let's say you have 100 people apply for a job.

710
00:27:32.280 --> 00:27:33.600
You got a new job opening.

711
00:27:33.600 --> 00:27:37.040
Presumably every candidate has the goal of getting the job.

712
00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:39.160
The goal is not the thing that determines the outcome.

713
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:41.680
So the person who wins and the 99 people who lose

714
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:42.680
they have the same goals.

715
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:43.920
You look at the Olympic games.

716
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.480
Presumably any event everybody who's competing

717
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.560
has the goal of winning the Olympic medal, right?

718
00:27:48.560 --> 00:27:49.560
Of winning the gold.

719
00:27:49.560 --> 00:27:52.320
So the goal is not the thing that makes the difference.

720
00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:54.560
So again winners and losers have the same goals.

721
00:27:54.560 --> 00:27:56.280
So if they have the same goals

722
00:27:56.280 --> 00:27:58.000
they cannot be the thing that make the difference

723
00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:58.840
in their performance.

724
00:27:58.840 --> 00:27:59.960
It has to be something else.

725
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:01.640
Maybe having a goal is part of it,

726
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:02.960
maybe it's necessary,

727
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.800
but it's not sufficient for the outcome that you want.

728
00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:07.440
And for that what you need is the system.

729
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:08.680
You need a collection of habits

730
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:10.600
that are going to make the difference

731
00:28:10.600 --> 00:28:13.000
and accumulate into a bigger outcome.

732
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.000
And you say goals restrict your happiness.

733
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.760
There's some implicit promise internally

734
00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:20.320
that once I get to this goal then I'll be happy.

735
00:28:20.320 --> 00:28:22.440
You know once I write a New York Times best seller

736
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:23.880
then I'll feel better about it.

737
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:27.040
You know once I achieve this certain number on the scale

738
00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:28.560
then I'll be happy with my body.

739
00:28:28.560 --> 00:28:30.800
Once I get to a million dollars in revenue

740
00:28:30.800 --> 00:28:32.480
then I'll be happy with the business.

741
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.880
And so you're kind of constantly pushing happiness off

742
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:38.840
to the next milestone and thinking that once you get there

743
00:28:38.840 --> 00:28:40.960
then finally you'll be satisfied.

744
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:43.960
But I think in fact the better way to do it

745
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:46.280
is to fall in love with the process,

746
00:28:46.280 --> 00:28:47.680
to fall in love with the lifestyle.

747
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.520
Then you can be happy along the way

748
00:28:49.520 --> 00:28:51.600
and still achieve the goals as you go.

749
00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:53.120
Still achieve the milestones.

750
00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:54.320
For a long time I wrestled,

751
00:28:54.320 --> 00:28:56.880
I had trouble with this question of do I have to be dissatisfied

752
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.320
if I want to be driven?

753
00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:00.800
Yeah, you have to be dissatisfied to be driven.

754
00:29:00.800 --> 00:29:04.960
Because to me I felt like there's where I'm at right now

755
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:06.560
and there's where I want to be.

756
00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:07.880
And so there's this gap

757
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.960
and that gap is dissatisfaction.

758
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:13.680
That gap is you want it to change, you want it to close.

759
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.400
And it's also what is motivating and driving you

760
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.520
is to try to close that gap.

761
00:29:18.520 --> 00:29:21.920
And so the healthiest answer, maybe the answer is yes,

762
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:22.760
I don't know.

763
00:29:22.760 --> 00:29:25.160
But the healthiest answer that I've come up with

764
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:28.120
is imagine like an acorn false symmetry.

765
00:29:28.120 --> 00:29:29.680
And it manages to take root,

766
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:31.280
it becomes a seedling and then a sapling

767
00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:34.040
and eventually grows into this mature oak tree.

768
00:29:34.040 --> 00:29:36.600
And at no point in that process when it was just an acorn

769
00:29:36.600 --> 00:29:38.840
it wasn't criticizing itself for not being a sapling.

770
00:29:38.840 --> 00:29:39.840
It was just a sapling,

771
00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:42.160
it wasn't criticizing itself for not being an oak.

772
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.640
It wasn't dissatisfied with where it was at.

773
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:46.760
And nobody came over and was criticizing it for oh,

774
00:29:46.760 --> 00:29:49.240
I can't believe you're not a full grown tree yet.

775
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:52.520
But it kept growing the whole time.

776
00:29:52.520 --> 00:29:55.400
So simultaneously you have this thing where it was both

777
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.840
perfect at each stage that it was at.

778
00:29:57.840 --> 00:29:59.040
Nothing was wrong.

779
00:29:59.040 --> 00:30:00.960
And yet it continued to grow.

780
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.840
And the reason is because that's just what an oak tree does.

781
00:30:03.840 --> 00:30:05.520
That's what it is encoded to do.

782
00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:07.320
It is encoded for growth.

783
00:30:07.320 --> 00:30:09.120
And so when I look at myself,

784
00:30:09.120 --> 00:30:11.720
I think if I put myself in the right position

785
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:13.640
that's how I feel about it.

786
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:17.360
I am perfectly happy with where I'm at at each stage.

787
00:30:17.360 --> 00:30:20.120
And yet I'm encoded to grow.

788
00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:21.480
I'm encoded to keep going.

789
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:25.120
And so I can both be driven and be satisfied.

790
00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:27.440
I can both be appreciative of the moment

791
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:28.920
and still moving forward.

792
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.800
And I think that works best when you find that thing.

793
00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:33.320
Sometimes we call it your strengths.

794
00:30:33.320 --> 00:30:36.680
Sometimes we might say it's what you're encoded to do.

795
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:39.360
But when you find that thing, there's well aligned for you.

796
00:30:39.360 --> 00:30:42.040
And if you do find that, then you can have both of those.

797
00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:43.240
I love that.

798
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:44.080
I love that.

799
00:30:44.080 --> 00:30:45.400
And I think with age and maturity,

800
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.600
I've gotten closer to being in that region where I'm well aware

801
00:30:48.600 --> 00:30:50.200
nothing is going to make me happier at all.

802
00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:51.320
Like no, accomplishment of future.

803
00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:53.160
Nothing's going to change anything.

804
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.280
But at the same time, I'm still striving.

805
00:30:55.280 --> 00:30:57.440
And that does feel like a contradiction to some degree.

806
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.160
It feels like how can those two things be true at the same time?

807
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:01.560
They were striving for things that you know

808
00:31:01.560 --> 00:31:04.840
won't really move the needle in any way.

809
00:31:04.840 --> 00:31:09.040
The difference I see between me and something in nature

810
00:31:09.040 --> 00:31:11.640
is that I, the thing in nature probably

811
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.600
isn't comparing itself on Instagram to everyone else.

812
00:31:14.600 --> 00:31:17.400
And I understand humans to be like comparison machines,

813
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:18.960
kind of how we understand the value of things.

814
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:21.400
I kind of understand the value of the stake on a menu

815
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.960
by the cheap stake and the most expensive ones.

816
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.360
So I think the middle one is probably right.

817
00:31:26.360 --> 00:31:29.440
Do you think much about comparison as a motivating

818
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:31.520
or demotivating force in this picture?

819
00:31:31.520 --> 00:31:33.040
Well, I think it can be very helpful

820
00:31:33.040 --> 00:31:34.440
and also it can also be very harmful.

821
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.760
So it's just sort of a sense of how you use it.

822
00:31:36.760 --> 00:31:39.280
I tend to find it better if you compare small things.

823
00:31:39.280 --> 00:31:42.080
So if you compare marketing strategies or squat form

824
00:31:42.080 --> 00:31:45.680
or writing style or the first sentence of each chapter,

825
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:47.040
like how do I have a good intro?

826
00:31:47.040 --> 00:31:49.760
If you compare tactics, then that can be really helpful

827
00:31:49.760 --> 00:31:52.240
for building skills and for developing your ability.

828
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.520
If you compare big things, marriage, net worth,

829
00:31:55.520 --> 00:31:57.720
things like that, that's just kind of a recipe

830
00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:59.160
for ending up unhappy.

831
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:03.800
Because as the scale gets bigger, things get more vague.

832
00:32:03.800 --> 00:32:05.960
There's so many things involved in marriage.

833
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:07.800
And so, you know, or net worth or whatever.

834
00:32:07.800 --> 00:32:09.480
You just see one little slice

835
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:11.400
and you are trying to compare these two big things,

836
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:13.560
but you don't even know what the full picture is.

837
00:32:13.560 --> 00:32:16.680
And so comparison is like the teacher of skills

838
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:18.320
when it's applied narrowly,

839
00:32:18.320 --> 00:32:21.200
but it's the thief of joy when it's applied broadly.

840
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:23.000
That makes sense, yeah.

841
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:24.920
I leave running when you said that ambitious people,

842
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:26.560
they have lots of aspirations, lots of habits

843
00:32:26.560 --> 00:32:27.400
they want to start.

844
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:28.840
I was thinking about myself and thinking,

845
00:32:28.840 --> 00:32:32.480
there's probably 30 habits that I would like to acquire.

846
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.320
I'd want to be better at writing, I want to be a runner,

847
00:32:34.320 --> 00:32:38.080
I want to be better at speaking, I want to be a better friend

848
00:32:38.080 --> 00:32:40.040
and be more attentive with my friends

849
00:32:40.040 --> 00:32:41.800
and make sure I text them on their birthdays.

850
00:32:41.800 --> 00:32:44.520
And you know, all of these new habits that I want to pursue,

851
00:32:44.520 --> 00:32:48.520
how does one know which one to aim for first?

852
00:32:48.520 --> 00:32:49.920
Is there a framework for knowing?

853
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:51.800
Yeah, there's some things that you can do.

854
00:32:51.800 --> 00:32:55.200
I don't think to your point earlier about the,

855
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.280
sometimes the riskiest things just take a long time

856
00:32:57.280 --> 00:32:58.320
making the decision, you know,

857
00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:00.440
maybe you should just pick one and work on it

858
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:01.760
and then you can get on to the next one.

859
00:33:01.760 --> 00:33:03.920
But I do think there's some level of strategy,

860
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:06.800
which is a good place to start is by asking yourself

861
00:33:06.800 --> 00:33:10.400
which habits are upstream from other good things happening.

862
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:13.960
So for example, I know that if you were,

863
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:15.600
maybe the question to start with is,

864
00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:18.000
when you live a good day, when you feel dialed in,

865
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.880
when things are like rolling along well for you,

866
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:21.640
what tends to be part of that day?

867
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:22.720
Sleep, you know?

868
00:33:22.760 --> 00:33:25.160
Okay, so that's, you know, I would say for me,

869
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:26.600
sleep is definitely one.

870
00:33:26.600 --> 00:33:28.720
I would say getting my workout in

871
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:31.440
and usually reading and writing are a part of it,

872
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:33.400
but I think I could just boil it down to reading.

873
00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:35.440
If I just read like 10 pages,

874
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.320
that often sparks the writing.

875
00:33:37.320 --> 00:33:39.880
It's like reading is like the fuel for writing for me.

876
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:41.640
So I could say get a workout in

877
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:43.840
and read for five minutes or 10 minutes.

878
00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:46.120
Those are the two things that are part of a good day.

879
00:33:46.120 --> 00:33:48.520
And what happens is they're upstream

880
00:33:48.520 --> 00:33:50.120
from a lot of other good things happening.

881
00:33:50.120 --> 00:33:52.000
For example, if I get the workout in,

882
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.200
yeah, I feel good, I get the benefits of the workout,

883
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:57.040
but I also have a post workout high for like an hour or two.

884
00:33:57.040 --> 00:33:59.720
So I, my focus and concentration is better.

885
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.120
I sleep better at night because I got the workout in

886
00:34:02.120 --> 00:34:03.280
and now I'm tired.

887
00:34:03.280 --> 00:34:05.000
I tend to eat better when I workout.

888
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.320
It's when I'm not working out that I eat terribly.

889
00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:08.320
It's just like, I don't know,

890
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.240
it's kind of like I don't want to waste it or something.

891
00:34:10.240 --> 00:34:13.800
So at no point was I trying to build better focus habits

892
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:15.520
or sleep habits or nutrition habits.

893
00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:18.280
Those just came kind of a natural consequence

894
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:19.680
of getting the workout in.

895
00:34:19.680 --> 00:34:21.880
So what are those things that you do

896
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.520
that are upstream from other good things happening?

897
00:34:24.520 --> 00:34:27.000
I think those are good like anchor habits

898
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.000
to start and focus on.

899
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.760
But if I could add another one for myself,

900
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.560
I would say it's a little bit of time,

901
00:34:32.560 --> 00:34:33.840
it's really just time to think,

902
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.040
but it's time to reflect and review.

903
00:34:36.040 --> 00:34:37.960
There's this interesting thing that happens if you,

904
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.240
if you have a really good work ethic,

905
00:34:39.240 --> 00:34:40.440
if you have a strong work ethic

906
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.280
and working hard has gotten you far in life,

907
00:34:44.160 --> 00:34:46.080
it kind of becomes a crutch.

908
00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:47.920
You know, for a long time,

909
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:49.160
I was like, if I ever had a problem,

910
00:34:49.160 --> 00:34:50.920
I was like, well, I'll just work my way out of it.

911
00:34:51.200 --> 00:34:53.840
I'll just work hard on it until I figured out.

912
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:55.360
And that's great.

913
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:57.400
That's really powerful for a lot of things.

914
00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:59.480
But at some point, it breaks.

915
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:01.120
Like you can maybe, if you really try,

916
00:35:01.120 --> 00:35:03.360
maybe you can work 10% harder or 20% harder,

917
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:04.800
but there's some limit.

918
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:06.960
But if you work on the right thing,

919
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.920
well, you can get 100x the result or 1000x the result.

920
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.800
And so if you just keep your head down and work hard,

921
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.440
it's very unlikely that you'll be spending your time

922
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.520
in the highest and best way.

923
00:35:17.520 --> 00:35:19.600
And the only way to figure that out

924
00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:21.360
is to have time to reflect and review,

925
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:22.560
time to think, you know,

926
00:35:22.560 --> 00:35:24.440
so you need enough time to think

927
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:26.720
to figure out what should I be focused on next.

928
00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:28.640
And so I think that is almost,

929
00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:32.640
it's almost reflection review is almost like the meta habit

930
00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:33.880
that is above all others

931
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:36.200
because if you give yourself time to reflect and review,

932
00:35:36.200 --> 00:35:37.520
then you can troubleshoot your habits

933
00:35:37.520 --> 00:35:39.480
and figure out how to adjust them.

934
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:41.080
I was thinking, as you were saying that,

935
00:35:41.080 --> 00:35:43.960
that time to reflect and review is actually also a review

936
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.880
of all my current systems moving me closer.

937
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.080
Because when you're talking about that,

938
00:35:49.080 --> 00:35:50.560
I was thinking of times in my life where

939
00:35:50.560 --> 00:35:52.120
I was so close to like the picture

940
00:35:52.120 --> 00:35:53.920
and I was so in the trenches doing the thing

941
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:55.880
that I hadn't come up to even say,

942
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:58.280
actually, is there a system I could put in place

943
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.680
to solve this problem with the next five or 10 years?

944
00:36:00.680 --> 00:36:03.400
Like, for example, is there a person I need to hire?

945
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:05.040
So actually, should I go into the hiring process

946
00:36:05.040 --> 00:36:07.320
versus be an ethics in the problem myself?

947
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:09.960
Should I spend 10 hours this week

948
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:11.600
on hiring a candidate to do this

949
00:36:11.600 --> 00:36:12.920
or should I be doing it?

950
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:14.800
But sometimes you get so caught up in the trenches

951
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:16.800
when, especially when things are tough and difficult

952
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:17.760
and moving very quickly,

953
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.000
that you don't review your systems.

954
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:21.400
And also, when you talk about systems,

955
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:23.880
I thought about how systems sometimes expire.

956
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:24.720
Sure.

957
00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:25.560
Yeah.

958
00:36:25.560 --> 00:36:26.400
Because things change.

959
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.680
And I think this is probably one

960
00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:29.800
of the most overlooked things with habits.

961
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:31.120
A lot of the time when someone sits down

962
00:36:31.120 --> 00:36:33.040
and they want to build a new habit, they don't say this,

963
00:36:33.040 --> 00:36:34.400
but what they kind of assume is,

964
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.040
what it would mean to be successful with this habit

965
00:36:37.040 --> 00:36:39.400
is that I do it for the rest of my life.

966
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:41.480
And that if at some point I'm not doing it,

967
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:44.240
then that must mean that I failed or I quit on it.

968
00:36:44.240 --> 00:36:46.240
But that's not how it is at all.

969
00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:47.840
Things have a season, you know?

970
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:51.200
And so habits have to change shape over time.

971
00:36:51.200 --> 00:36:53.440
Let's take my writing habit, for example.

972
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:55.640
The habit that launched my career

973
00:36:55.640 --> 00:36:58.080
was I wrote a new article every Monday and Thursday

974
00:36:58.080 --> 00:36:59.400
and I did that for three years.

975
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:03.240
So the first three years, 150 articles right twice a week,

976
00:37:03.240 --> 00:37:04.080
that was a great habit.

977
00:37:04.080 --> 00:37:06.040
There were like 2,000 word pieces or so.

978
00:37:06.040 --> 00:37:07.920
But then I signed the book deal for atomic habits.

979
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:09.560
I didn't have the capacity to do that

980
00:37:09.560 --> 00:37:11.760
and also write the book, so that had to change.

981
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:13.160
I wrote the book for like three years

982
00:37:13.160 --> 00:37:14.440
and then the book came out.

983
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:16.840
And now I write a newsletter once a week

984
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:18.200
and that's much shorter.

985
00:37:18.200 --> 00:37:20.360
But I kind of feel like my writing habit

986
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:22.640
has maintained that whole time, it just changed shape.

987
00:37:22.640 --> 00:37:24.160
But that's fine, it just needed to shift

988
00:37:24.160 --> 00:37:25.360
based on the season.

989
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:28.240
But I don't know, people, they get so attached

990
00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:30.280
to one form of habits sometimes

991
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:33.160
that they don't realize that it's no longer serving them.

992
00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:36.280
And I think that's the one of the trickier things to give up

993
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:38.280
is a habit that used to be good for you,

994
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:40.440
that used to work well, but no longer serves you

995
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:41.920
in your current season.

996
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:44.280
I find that I'm kind of a slow learner with that.

997
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:45.880
I guess parents can probably be really relate

998
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:48.960
because they're forced to basically change their goals

999
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:50.880
and therefore their systems would have to,

1000
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.440
I mean, you're a father of three,

1001
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:55.240
so you probably know this much better than I do.

1002
00:37:55.240 --> 00:37:57.800
But has there been systems that you've had to sort of,

1003
00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:00.760
I think there's lots of inflection points in life.

1004
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.480
So having kids is one of them, starting a new job,

1005
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:05.720
moving to a new city, it can be big stuff like that.

1006
00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:08.400
I just talked to a mother who her kids moved out,

1007
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:09.520
so she's now an empty nester.

1008
00:38:09.520 --> 00:38:12.040
She's like, last 25 years, I've been parenting all these kids

1009
00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:13.920
and now finally they're all out.

1010
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.360
But it feels, in some sense, it almost feels like a loss of identity.

1011
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:19.440
You know, like I thought I was one thing now,

1012
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:21.640
it feels like things have shifted,

1013
00:38:21.640 --> 00:38:24.160
but also it just signals an inflection point in life

1014
00:38:24.160 --> 00:38:25.640
and a new season that you're in.

1015
00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:26.920
And when your seasons change,

1016
00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:28.960
your habits often need to change with it.

1017
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:29.960
When you talk about this,

1018
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:31.680
full burn is theory.

1019
00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:33.840
I guess stuff tells into what we're talking about here,

1020
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.760
where you use this to kind of think about

1021
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.560
what habits to pursue in any season of life,

1022
00:38:38.560 --> 00:38:41.760
but also a phrase that I've heard so often,

1023
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:45.360
specifically from mothers on this show comes to mind,

1024
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.960
which is that you can't have it all at the same time.

1025
00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:49.520
And I've had that, I think four or five times,

1026
00:38:49.520 --> 00:38:50.720
different mothers in particular,

1027
00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:52.480
which is, I mean, says something about society.

1028
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:54.440
Yeah, I've said to me that they've had to realize

1029
00:38:54.440 --> 00:38:56.040
that they can't have it all at the same time.

1030
00:38:56.040 --> 00:38:57.040
For sure.

1031
00:38:57.040 --> 00:38:58.520
So this is not my concept,

1032
00:38:58.520 --> 00:39:00.160
the society idea that I came across,

1033
00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:01.840
called the four-burner theory.

1034
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.000
And it breaks life into these four-burners on a stove.

1035
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.000
So you have work in careers, one,

1036
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:08.520
you have family, friends,

1037
00:39:08.520 --> 00:39:09.640
and then personal health,

1038
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:12.560
yourself, basically, as the other.

1039
00:39:12.560 --> 00:39:16.040
The idea is that for the burners to really be going well,

1040
00:39:16.040 --> 00:39:17.760
you can't have all four on at the same time.

1041
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:20.560
And Bun, happy to choose the stove, yeah, the stove top.

1042
00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:22.640
So you have, you can choose,

1043
00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:25.600
you could have three going on at kind of like a mid-level,

1044
00:39:25.600 --> 00:39:26.920
but if you really want them to do well,

1045
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:28.760
you can only have two on at the same time.

1046
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:32.000
And who knows, I don't know if it's true or not

1047
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:33.480
or whatever, but it's an interesting idea

1048
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.360
and what it does is it gets you to realize,

1049
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.600
yeah, a fundamental part of life is trade-offs.

1050
00:39:38.600 --> 00:39:41.120
And you cannot be good at everything at the same time.

1051
00:39:41.120 --> 00:39:43.160
So this is true across projects.

1052
00:39:43.160 --> 00:39:45.080
If you choose, try to do seven things at once,

1053
00:39:45.080 --> 00:39:47.000
spreading yourself thin in seven different ways,

1054
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:48.200
very hard to be excellent.

1055
00:39:48.200 --> 00:39:52.760
For me, what I think about is life has a series of seasons

1056
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:54.920
and life has a series of sequences.

1057
00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:58.840
So let's say, it's not always exactly 10 years,

1058
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:00.720
but let's say the big movements in life

1059
00:40:00.720 --> 00:40:02.360
are roughly 10-year buckets, right?

1060
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:03.960
So like for me, building my first business,

1061
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:05.440
that was kind of like a 10-year thing

1062
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.840
and eventually led to the launch of a ton of cabinets.

1063
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.520
You maybe get five or six of those in your adult life.

1064
00:40:10.520 --> 00:40:12.800
Some of those things make sense to do

1065
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:14.480
in a different order than others.

1066
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.920
Like if you want to travel the world

1067
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:18.960
and see a bunch of places and party in Ibiza,

1068
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:20.640
you're probably not going to do that in your 60s.

1069
00:40:20.640 --> 00:40:21.960
You know, like, I mean, you can.

1070
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:23.360
There's nobody's saying you can't,

1071
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:25.920
but some things are probably better sequenced

1072
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:27.560
in other, you know, in other spots.

1073
00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:29.480
Obviously, there's, you know, especially for women,

1074
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:31.240
there's a certain limit on if you want to have a family

1075
00:40:31.240 --> 00:40:33.000
what decades that happens in.

1076
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:36.440
So yeah, it's just a matter of sequencing and prioritization.

1077
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:38.800
If you look at the like tapestry of your life,

1078
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:40.560
what do you want the big movements to be

1079
00:40:40.560 --> 00:40:43.600
and where do those seasons need to slot in?

1080
00:40:43.600 --> 00:40:47.240
Yeah, it's a, it's a, there is no right answer,

1081
00:40:47.240 --> 00:40:49.200
but it's interesting as soon as you realize

1082
00:40:49.200 --> 00:40:51.520
it's a finite number and as soon as you realize

1083
00:40:51.520 --> 00:40:54.480
that trade-offs are always going to be a reality,

1084
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:56.440
you have to deal with that in some way.

1085
00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:58.360
I've decided that right now while my kids are young,

1086
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:00.640
like I'm going to turn the career burner down

1087
00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:01.480
and that's fine.

1088
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:03.480
It's not going to be how it was for the last 10 years,

1089
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.920
but that's okay because they're only five once, you know,

1090
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:07.880
they're only turning six once.

1091
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:09.160
They only go to second grade once

1092
00:41:09.160 --> 00:41:10.640
and I want to be there for all that.

1093
00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:13.960
So they're always trade-offs.

1094
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:16.240
I think that sequence point is super interesting.

1095
00:41:16.240 --> 00:41:17.240
It got me thinking because you're right.

1096
00:41:17.240 --> 00:41:19.000
There are sort of some constraints

1097
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:20.480
whether they're biological constraints

1098
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:23.440
or in the case of your kids, like just natural constraints.

1099
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:27.040
That mean this season can only happen now here, right?

1100
00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:27.880
Yeah.

1101
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:29.960
There's also some things like, you know,

1102
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:32.240
both of us are fairly young entrepreneurs.

1103
00:41:32.240 --> 00:41:34.680
I'm so glad that I started a business in my 20s

1104
00:41:34.720 --> 00:41:36.400
rather than my 50s.

1105
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:37.840
It doesn't mean you can't do it in your 50s.

1106
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:39.400
There's no nobody saying you can.

1107
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:41.600
It's just that it makes things a lot easier

1108
00:41:41.600 --> 00:41:42.760
for the next decade.

1109
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:44.880
You know, it's easier for me to be there for my kids now

1110
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.320
because I have control my time

1111
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:49.400
because I did the business part in the previous decade.

1112
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:50.520
And these are your risks.

1113
00:41:50.520 --> 00:41:51.360
Yeah.

1114
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:52.960
And that doesn't mean it's always going to work out or whatever.

1115
00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:54.000
It doesn't mean that you're going to be able

1116
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:55.440
to perfectly plan it all,

1117
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:57.480
but you just see how the sequences

1118
00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:59.960
can stack up in that way.

1119
00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:00.800
And how important do you think,

1120
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:03.000
when we're talking about habits, do you think repetition is?

1121
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.560
Because there's so many of these sort of well-known concepts

1122
00:42:07.560 --> 00:42:09.240
or frameworks in habit formation.

1123
00:42:09.240 --> 00:42:12.360
One of them is that habits take roughly 66 days.

1124
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:14.720
One of them is that it's about repetition.

1125
00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:16.160
Does repetition really matter?

1126
00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:17.000
It definitely does.

1127
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:18.920
I mean, repetition is how habits form.

1128
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:21.480
The 66 days number comes from one study

1129
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:23.280
that came out that found that on average

1130
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.760
it took about 66 days to build a habit.

1131
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.520
If you look at the study, the range is pretty wide.

1132
00:42:28.520 --> 00:42:29.960
So if you pick something really simple,

1133
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:32.960
like drinking glass of water at lunch each day,

1134
00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:36.040
that might only take two or three weeks to form.

1135
00:42:36.040 --> 00:42:37.440
If you look at something more complicated,

1136
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.560
like going for a run after work every day,

1137
00:42:40.560 --> 00:42:43.120
that might take seven or eight or nine months to form.

1138
00:42:43.120 --> 00:42:46.400
And so I don't know that 66 days really tells you anything.

1139
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:49.120
It doesn't tell you that this is how long it's going to take

1140
00:42:49.120 --> 00:42:49.960
for your habit to stick.

1141
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:51.440
I mean, the range is wide.

1142
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:55.720
Sometimes when people ask me how long it take to form a habit,

1143
00:42:55.720 --> 00:42:57.760
my answer is forever.

1144
00:42:57.760 --> 00:42:59.320
Because if you stop doing it,

1145
00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:00.920
then it's no longer a habit.

1146
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:02.800
And what I'm kind of getting at with that

1147
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:05.920
is that habits are not a finish line to be crossed.

1148
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:07.800
They're a lifestyle to be lived.

1149
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.480
And so we approach our habits as if it's a finish line.

1150
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:13.040
Oh, let me do this 30 day cleanse and then I'll be healthy.

1151
00:43:13.040 --> 00:43:14.280
Let me do this 90 day sprint

1152
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:15.360
and then the product will be shipped.

1153
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.160
I won't have to worry about it anymore.

1154
00:43:17.160 --> 00:43:19.240
And it's like most things in life,

1155
00:43:19.240 --> 00:43:21.920
especially the big important things, they're endless.

1156
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:23.360
They're endless battles.

1157
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:25.640
So just because you went to the gym yesterday

1158
00:43:25.640 --> 00:43:28.080
earns you no bonus points for tomorrow.

1159
00:43:28.080 --> 00:43:29.680
Like you still have to show up tomorrow.

1160
00:43:29.720 --> 00:43:31.520
Just because you were good spouse yesterday

1161
00:43:31.520 --> 00:43:33.120
earns you no bonus points for tomorrow.

1162
00:43:33.120 --> 00:43:35.560
You still have to be loving and caring again.

1163
00:43:35.560 --> 00:43:39.720
And so all the things that really matter are endless battles.

1164
00:43:39.720 --> 00:43:41.680
And it's not about crossing a finish line.

1165
00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:43.320
It's about living that kind of lifestyle.

1166
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:46.640
And so yes, it is true that repetition matters.

1167
00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:50.320
And yes, it is true that the habits will become more seamless

1168
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.000
and automatic and maybe a little less effortful

1169
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.520
as you repeat them more.

1170
00:43:54.520 --> 00:43:56.760
But that doesn't mean that you'll never have to think

1171
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.440
about the more you know worry about them again.

1172
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:00.400
Do you think much about what's going on in the brain

1173
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:01.560
when repetition occurs?

1174
00:44:01.560 --> 00:44:03.120
Like what is it that's making it easier?

1175
00:44:03.120 --> 00:44:05.400
If I've been on a roll with the gym

1176
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:06.800
I've been going for 60 days in a row.

1177
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.080
Why does it feel easier on day 61?

1178
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:14.240
That's a tricky question because if you were to talk

1179
00:44:14.240 --> 00:44:16.120
to an academic and they would tell you

1180
00:44:16.120 --> 00:44:19.000
like a habit is this automatic, non-conscious behavior.

1181
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:22.120
Really quick, simple things like brushing your teeth,

1182
00:44:22.120 --> 00:44:23.600
tying your shoes.

1183
00:44:23.600 --> 00:44:25.480
Every time you pick up a pair of Barbie cute tongs,

1184
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:26.600
you gotta tap them together twice.

1185
00:44:26.720 --> 00:44:29.000
Like stuff you don't even really think about, okay?

1186
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:32.000
That's actual habitual behavior.

1187
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:34.760
But if I were to ask you, what are some habits

1188
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:35.600
you're trying to build?

1189
00:44:35.600 --> 00:44:37.640
You would say I'm trying to go to the gym for it is a week

1190
00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:38.800
or I'm trying to write every morning

1191
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:40.080
or I'm trying to meditate, you know,

1192
00:44:40.080 --> 00:44:41.640
five days a week or whatever.

1193
00:44:41.640 --> 00:44:44.120
And I know what you mean when you say that.

1194
00:44:44.120 --> 00:44:46.680
You mean I want it to be this routine, this practice

1195
00:44:46.680 --> 00:44:48.080
that I do consistently.

1196
00:44:48.080 --> 00:44:51.360
But like writing every day is never going to be mindless

1197
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:52.760
the way that brushing your teeth is.

1198
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:55.000
You know going to the gym is not going to be automatic

1199
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:56.680
the way the tying your shoes might be.

1200
00:44:56.680 --> 00:44:58.520
And so the things that we,

1201
00:44:58.520 --> 00:45:01.440
there's a little bit of sloppiness in the word habits

1202
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.280
and how we use it in life.

1203
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:05.880
It's not, they're not automatic mindless routines

1204
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:06.720
most of the time.

1205
00:45:06.720 --> 00:45:09.240
Most of the things that we want to be habits

1206
00:45:09.240 --> 00:45:10.680
are not like reflexes.

1207
00:45:10.680 --> 00:45:13.880
They're routines and rituals that we do consistently.

1208
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:17.040
So having said that, it is true that after you've gone

1209
00:45:17.040 --> 00:45:18.120
to the gym for a month or two,

1210
00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:19.240
it does start to get easier.

1211
00:45:19.240 --> 00:45:20.680
And I think there's a number of forces

1212
00:45:20.680 --> 00:45:22.760
that kind of work in your favor there.

1213
00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:25.920
One is you've figured a lot out about

1214
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:27.840
what it takes to get into the gym.

1215
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:28.840
What time am I going?

1216
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:30.160
What route do I take?

1217
00:45:30.160 --> 00:45:31.600
How do I pack my bag?

1218
00:45:31.600 --> 00:45:32.880
Do I need to bring a water bottle

1219
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:34.320
or is there a water fountain at the gym?

1220
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.360
Like all those sorts of things are little one-time costs

1221
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.120
that you got to figure out early on.

1222
00:45:39.120 --> 00:45:41.920
That once you're into a pattern, you already know them.

1223
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:43.800
You know the water bottle thing sounds like a small thing.

1224
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:44.800
I heard from someone who said,

1225
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:46.200
I always forget to bring my water bottle

1226
00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:47.680
and they don't have water fountains at this gym.

1227
00:45:47.680 --> 00:45:50.440
So like I sometimes I skip the workout because of that.

1228
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:51.640
You know, it's like it's remarkable

1229
00:45:51.640 --> 00:45:54.760
how little friction it takes to pull us off course.

1230
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:57.040
And so figuring out all of those things

1231
00:45:57.040 --> 00:45:58.960
is something that once you're a month or two in,

1232
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:02.000
you've crossed all, you've fought all those battles

1233
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:03.360
and now you know how to do it.

1234
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:04.680
So that makes it easier.

1235
00:46:04.680 --> 00:46:06.800
The other thing is you start to build friendships,

1236
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:07.800
start to build connections,

1237
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:08.840
you start to know the people there,

1238
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:10.160
you feel comfortable there.

1239
00:46:10.160 --> 00:46:12.280
There's this concept Stephen Cressfield talks about

1240
00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:16.760
where if you have a wolf and it's roaming around,

1241
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:19.680
eventually it starts to feel like it has its territory

1242
00:46:19.680 --> 00:46:21.200
and early on in the process,

1243
00:46:21.200 --> 00:46:22.760
a creative process writing a book or whatever.

1244
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:24.280
You go into the office of the first time

1245
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:25.400
to write the first chapter of the book

1246
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:26.880
and you kind of feel uncomfortable.

1247
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.120
It feels like it's not you yet.

1248
00:46:28.120 --> 00:46:29.520
You go to the gym on the first day,

1249
00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:30.800
you feel like people are judging you.

1250
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:31.800
Do I look stupid?

1251
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:33.240
I don't know how to do this.

1252
00:46:33.240 --> 00:46:36.160
But after a while, it becomes your territory.

1253
00:46:36.160 --> 00:46:37.080
It's just like the wolf.

1254
00:46:37.080 --> 00:46:38.880
It starts to feel like you're home court.

1255
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:42.320
And so that familiarity I think also makes it much easier

1256
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:43.280
to stick to the habits.

1257
00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:45.080
You know, once you start to feel comfortable there,

1258
00:46:45.080 --> 00:46:47.000
and that takes a little bit of time.

1259
00:46:47.040 --> 00:46:49.960
And then the last piece is identity.

1260
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.440
The more that you start to follow this habit,

1261
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:53.840
the more you repeat a habit,

1262
00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:56.320
the more you reinforce being that type of person,

1263
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:58.600
the more you start to have that element of your story.

1264
00:46:58.600 --> 00:47:00.480
I think this is one of the most important things

1265
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:02.240
for building habits and getting habits to stick,

1266
00:47:02.240 --> 00:47:06.640
which is how your habits reinforce your desired identity.

1267
00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:08.120
We often start by asking,

1268
00:47:08.120 --> 00:47:09.400
what do I wish to achieve?

1269
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:11.240
But I think what we should really start with is

1270
00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:12.800
who do I wish to become?

1271
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:14.120
What are my actions reinforcing?

1272
00:47:14.120 --> 00:47:16.880
What are my actions taking me closer toward?

1273
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.040
In a sense, every action you take

1274
00:47:19.040 --> 00:47:21.840
is like a vote for the type of person you wish to become.

1275
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:25.800
So no, doing one push up does not transform your body,

1276
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.000
but it does cast a vote for on the type of person

1277
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:29.400
who doesn't miss workouts.

1278
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:32.120
And no, writing one sentence does not finish a novel,

1279
00:47:32.120 --> 00:47:34.400
but it does cast a vote for I'm a writer.

1280
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:36.720
And no, setting one bit of positive feedback

1281
00:47:36.720 --> 00:47:38.600
does not make you like the world's best leader,

1282
00:47:38.600 --> 00:47:40.720
but it does cast a vote for on the type of leader

1283
00:47:40.720 --> 00:47:42.360
who cares about their teammates.

1284
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:44.760
And individually, those are small things,

1285
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:47.920
but collectively, you build up this body of evidence

1286
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:49.880
for being that kind of person.

1287
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:51.320
It's a little bit different than what you often hear.

1288
00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:53.800
Like you often hear people say something like,

1289
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:55.440
fake it till you make it.

1290
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:57.480
And I don't necessarily have anything wrong

1291
00:47:57.480 --> 00:47:58.320
with fake it till you make it,

1292
00:47:58.320 --> 00:47:59.960
like it's asking you to believe

1293
00:47:59.960 --> 00:48:01.960
something positive by yourself.

1294
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:05.480
But behavior and beliefs are a two way street.

1295
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.960
And so what you believe influences the actions you will take.

1296
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:10.920
And the actions you take also influences

1297
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:12.440
what you will believe.

1298
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:15.560
And my encouragement, my suggestion is to start

1299
00:48:15.560 --> 00:48:18.120
with the action to let the behavior lead the way.

1300
00:48:18.120 --> 00:48:20.440
To make one sales call or meditate for one minute

1301
00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:22.760
or do one push up and let that in that moment

1302
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:25.120
be evidence that you were that type of person.

1303
00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:26.280
You know, if you go outside today

1304
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:28.200
and you shoot a basketball for five minutes,

1305
00:48:28.200 --> 00:48:30.560
you don't instantly think, oh, I'm a basketball player.

1306
00:48:30.560 --> 00:48:33.280
But if you do it every day for next three months

1307
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:34.920
or six months or a year, at some point

1308
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:38.160
you cross this invisible threshold where you have to admit,

1309
00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:39.280
I guess playing basketball is like

1310
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:40.760
kind of an important part of who I am.

1311
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:42.800
You know, I guess it's part of my identity.

1312
00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:45.600
And once you adopt a habit as part of your story,

1313
00:48:45.600 --> 00:48:47.480
once it becomes part of how you see yourself,

1314
00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:49.520
it's not just like, I need to go for a run.

1315
00:48:49.520 --> 00:48:50.880
It's like, I am a runner.

1316
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.840
You know, I do this because it's part of who I am.

1317
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:55.800
Then you'll fight to maintain the habit, right?

1318
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:58.000
Like then it becomes easier for it to stick.

1319
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:00.920
And so the connection between habits and identity

1320
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:02.720
I think is ultimately how you really get habits

1321
00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:04.200
to stick for the long run.

1322
00:49:04.200 --> 00:49:06.240
It reminds me of a study I was reading recently

1323
00:49:06.240 --> 00:49:09.600
that said, if you speak to someone in terms of giving them

1324
00:49:09.600 --> 00:49:13.960
an identity versus using a word as an adjective

1325
00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:14.800
that behavior occurs.

1326
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.240
So an example would be, if you do something for me,

1327
00:49:17.240 --> 00:49:20.600
and I say, you know what, James, you are a kind person

1328
00:49:20.600 --> 00:49:22.560
in the studies, people become more kind.

1329
00:49:22.560 --> 00:49:26.360
But if I say that was kind, or that action was kind,

1330
00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:27.360
people are less kind.

1331
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.880
So if I can give you feedback that embodies your identity,

1332
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.000
then you're more likely for that behavior to occur.

1333
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:36.960
So with my team, and this is maybe giving a bit of the game away,

1334
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.160
I will often refer to them as an identity.

1335
00:49:39.160 --> 00:49:41.280
I will say, you are an innovator.

1336
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:42.760
You are an experimenter.

1337
00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:44.080
Because from the studies I've read,

1338
00:49:44.080 --> 00:49:46.280
that increased the probability that they embody

1339
00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:47.280
that identity.

1340
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.720
There's another study that did it for voting.

1341
00:49:49.720 --> 00:49:51.480
So people were more likely to go and vote.

1342
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:52.760
If you said, like, I am a voter,

1343
00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:55.040
you got them to identify as I'm a voter,

1344
00:49:55.040 --> 00:49:56.680
rather than are you voting today?

1345
00:49:56.680 --> 00:49:58.360
And so the same thing.

1346
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:00.440
There's an example in the time of habits I talk about.

1347
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:02.960
Imagine two people who are trying to quit smoking, you know,

1348
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:05.040
and so the first person gets offered a cigarette

1349
00:50:05.040 --> 00:50:07.160
and they say, oh no, thanks, I'm trying not to smoke.

1350
00:50:07.160 --> 00:50:08.720
And the second person gets offered,

1351
00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:10.800
they say, oh no, thanks, I'm not a smoker.

1352
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.960
And so the first person is trying to resist something

1353
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:16.000
that they still see themselves as.

1354
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:18.160
But the second person no longer sees themselves

1355
00:50:18.160 --> 00:50:20.040
as the type of person who smokes.

1356
00:50:20.040 --> 00:50:23.320
And yeah, some of the evidence and research suggests

1357
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:24.960
that once you adopt those identities,

1358
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:27.040
it's easier for you to stick to the behavior.

1359
00:50:27.040 --> 00:50:29.120
Reminds me of the research from Leon Festinger,

1360
00:50:29.120 --> 00:50:31.840
the guy that came up with a term cognitive distance.

1361
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:33.920
The way that I understand the concept of cognitive distance

1362
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:36.200
is that if I have a perceived identity of myself

1363
00:50:36.200 --> 00:50:37.960
and something external threatens that,

1364
00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:41.160
or challenges it, we're not good at living in contradiction.

1365
00:50:41.160 --> 00:50:42.400
I'm not good at, so for example,

1366
00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:45.000
I'm an accountant right now.

1367
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:48.800
And I hear that AI is doing accountancy work amazingly well.

1368
00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:51.360
Now I've invested 10 years in that accountancy degree.

1369
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:52.880
I see myself as a great accountant.

1370
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:57.320
My sort of initial reaction will probably be

1371
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.200
to either dismiss my current identity as a great accountant

1372
00:51:00.200 --> 00:51:02.160
that's gonna have a great career in the future,

1373
00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:04.800
or to dismiss the AI.

1374
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.480
And he talks, well, people that have studied his work

1375
00:51:07.520 --> 00:51:09.760
talk about how we're very poor

1376
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:11.760
at being able to hold two contradictory things

1377
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:13.280
to be true at the same time.

1378
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:15.560
So we tend to protect our identity.

1379
00:51:15.560 --> 00:51:17.960
Yes, there's something incredibly powerful

1380
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:19.960
about this that also ties in habits,

1381
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:22.520
which is that a lot of our identity,

1382
00:51:22.520 --> 00:51:25.080
not the whole thing, but large portions of our identity

1383
00:51:25.080 --> 00:51:27.280
are tied to our relationships.

1384
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:30.960
I'm a father, I'm a husband, and so it's the connection

1385
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:31.760
that we have with others.

1386
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:34.320
Our social bonds influence the picture

1387
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:36.360
that we have of ourselves.

1388
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:39.920
This is something that widely influences our habits.

1389
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:42.080
So we are all part of multiple groups.

1390
00:51:42.080 --> 00:51:43.560
Sometimes that group is large,

1391
00:51:43.560 --> 00:51:44.920
like what it means to be American,

1392
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:46.040
or what it means to be British.

1393
00:51:46.040 --> 00:51:47.320
Sometimes that group is small,

1394
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:49.320
like what it means to be a neighbor on your street,

1395
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:51.040
or a member of this family,

1396
00:51:51.040 --> 00:51:53.440
or a member of the local CrossFit gym.

1397
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:56.760
But all of the groups that you belong to, large and small,

1398
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:59.960
have a set of shared expectations for how you act,

1399
00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:03.120
have a set of social norms for what you do in that group.

1400
00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:05.760
And when your habits go with the grain

1401
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.520
of the expectations of the group, they're pretty attractive.

1402
00:52:08.520 --> 00:52:09.440
You know, like you want to sit to them,

1403
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.640
you get praised and rewarded for it, you fit in.

1404
00:52:11.640 --> 00:52:13.400
And when they go against the grain

1405
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:15.120
of the expectations of the group,

1406
00:52:15.120 --> 00:52:16.240
they're kind of unattractive.

1407
00:52:16.240 --> 00:52:18.400
You get criticized and it doesn't feel good.

1408
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:22.040
And so if people have to choose between,

1409
00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:25.520
I have habits that I want,

1410
00:52:25.520 --> 00:52:28.640
but I'm cast out, I'm ostracized, I'm criticized,

1411
00:52:28.640 --> 00:52:31.640
or I have habits that I don't really love,

1412
00:52:31.640 --> 00:52:34.080
but I fit in, I belong a part of something.

1413
00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:37.640
Most of the time, the desire to belong over powers,

1414
00:52:37.640 --> 00:52:39.400
the desire to improve.

1415
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:41.120
And so you want to do something different,

1416
00:52:41.120 --> 00:52:43.280
but you also know you're going to be heavily criticized for it.

1417
00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:46.360
You're going to at least add friction to your relationships.

1418
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:48.320
And we don't want to live with that dissonance,

1419
00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:50.480
that dissonance of, I could have this,

1420
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:53.440
but I also create friction here.

1421
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:55.040
One of the lessons, I think,

1422
00:52:55.040 --> 00:52:56.040
one of the big takeaways,

1423
00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:58.200
if you want to build better habits and get a stick,

1424
00:52:58.200 --> 00:53:00.280
particularly for the long run,

1425
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:03.800
is you want to join groups where your desired behavior

1426
00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:05.520
is the normal behavior.

1427
00:53:05.520 --> 00:53:07.960
Join groups where you can rise together,

1428
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:09.400
where the people that you're surrounded by

1429
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:12.160
have the type of habits that you want to have.

1430
00:53:12.160 --> 00:53:15.960
It reminds me of this thing that appeared

1431
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:17.560
in Jeff Bezos' shareholder letter

1432
00:53:17.560 --> 00:53:19.640
about resisting the equilibrium.

1433
00:53:19.640 --> 00:53:21.160
I didn't know that was good.

1434
00:53:21.160 --> 00:53:22.680
So in Jeff Bezos' shareholder letter,

1435
00:53:22.680 --> 00:53:24.440
he writes to shareholders that,

1436
00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:27.280
when referring to Amazon's ability and desire,

1437
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:28.640
and need to innovate through the future,

1438
00:53:28.640 --> 00:53:31.440
he says he makes a comparison to Richard Dawkins' book

1439
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.720
called the, I think it's a blind clock maker.

1440
00:53:34.720 --> 00:53:36.480
Yeah, the blind watchman.

1441
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:37.720
Blame watchman, yeah, yeah.

1442
00:53:37.720 --> 00:53:40.360
And says that essentially all living organisms,

1443
00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:42.520
living this constant battle to resist the equilibrium,

1444
00:53:42.520 --> 00:53:46.440
and actually death itself is when we become our environment.

1445
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:48.560
Because right now, me and you have a huge amount

1446
00:53:48.560 --> 00:53:51.480
of energy expenditure to be different from our environment

1447
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:54.520
in terms of temperature, in terms of acidity, et cetera.

1448
00:53:54.520 --> 00:53:55.680
And he's making the comparison,

1449
00:53:55.680 --> 00:53:57.480
which sounded a lot like what you just said,

1450
00:53:57.480 --> 00:54:01.600
that if you want to, that all living organisms

1451
00:54:01.600 --> 00:54:06.400
are in this constant battle to be different from our environment,

1452
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.080
and that the more different our environment is,

1453
00:54:09.080 --> 00:54:10.280
the harder the fight.

1454
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:14.800
So if I go to the desert, my body has to put out even more energy

1455
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:15.920
to be a different temperature,

1456
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:18.400
to be a different sort of acidity than the environment.

1457
00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:21.120
But if I want to make my life easier and make that fight easier,

1458
00:54:21.120 --> 00:54:24.200
then go into an environment where my environment is the same

1459
00:54:24.200 --> 00:54:26.040
as my entanglement state.

1460
00:54:26.040 --> 00:54:27.040
That's great.

1461
00:54:27.040 --> 00:54:29.960
I think that punchline of the more different your environment

1462
00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:31.880
is from the habits that you want to build,

1463
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.400
or from whatever equilibrium you're trying to achieve,

1464
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:36.760
the harder you will have to fight to maintain.

1465
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:41.160
And that is a fight that you can do for, I don't know,

1466
00:54:41.160 --> 00:54:44.720
a day, a week, a month, but it's some limited amount of time.

1467
00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:46.960
At some point, it just is draining

1468
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:49.680
to try to grind against the environment all the time.

1469
00:54:49.680 --> 00:54:54.160
Sometimes I view environment both physical and social,

1470
00:54:54.160 --> 00:54:56.440
almost like a form of gravity,

1471
00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:59.760
like the physical environment that we're in right now,

1472
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:02.400
it's always nudging you in certain directions.

1473
00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:04.520
I'm sitting in this chair right now talking to you.

1474
00:55:04.520 --> 00:55:06.120
I could be sitting anywhere else,

1475
00:55:06.120 --> 00:55:07.920
but I would have to sit on the floor,

1476
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:10.880
that the environment of the chair is ushering me to this spot.

1477
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:13.240
It's almost like a form of gravity pulling me here,

1478
00:55:13.240 --> 00:55:15.400
rather than getting me to go somewhere else,

1479
00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:17.000
when we leave this room.

1480
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:18.880
If I wanted, I could try to do something crazy

1481
00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:20.760
and break through a wall or climb through the ceiling

1482
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:22.600
or whatever, but I'm gonna go through the door,

1483
00:55:22.600 --> 00:55:24.320
because that's where the environment

1484
00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:26.120
is naturally nudging me toward.

1485
00:55:26.120 --> 00:55:28.720
It's where that behavior happens easily.

1486
00:55:28.720 --> 00:55:30.480
And all of our spaces are like that.

1487
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:32.120
You're always being kind of pulled toward

1488
00:55:32.120 --> 00:55:35.600
what is natural and easy and consistent in that environment.

1489
00:55:35.600 --> 00:55:37.120
So how can you prime your environment

1490
00:55:37.120 --> 00:55:38.600
to make those the things you wanna do?

1491
00:55:38.600 --> 00:55:40.000
That's for physical environment.

1492
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.080
Social environment is the same.

1493
00:55:42.080 --> 00:55:44.200
You're always kind of being pulled

1494
00:55:44.200 --> 00:55:46.640
toward what the behaviors are that are natural there.

1495
00:55:46.640 --> 00:55:47.720
What are the social norms?

1496
00:55:47.720 --> 00:55:50.040
What are the things that people get praised and rewarded for?

1497
00:55:50.040 --> 00:55:54.160
What is the culture typically calling you to do?

1498
00:55:54.160 --> 00:55:56.640
And that's where I think the answer is

1499
00:55:56.640 --> 00:55:59.480
you want to surround yourself with groups

1500
00:55:59.480 --> 00:56:01.320
who have the behaviors you wanna have.

1501
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:04.120
Join groups where your desired behavior is normal.

1502
00:56:04.120 --> 00:56:07.160
If it's normal in that group, then you can rise together.

1503
00:56:07.160 --> 00:56:09.960
So I mean, that must mean getting rid of certain people

1504
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:11.520
in one's life and sometimes those people

1505
00:56:11.520 --> 00:56:12.800
are hard to get rid of because they're families,

1506
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:13.640
they're mums, they die.

1507
00:56:13.640 --> 00:56:14.480
Sure.

1508
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:17.760
And I'm a little, sometimes you hear people say things

1509
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:19.760
like fire your friends or whatever.

1510
00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:22.520
And I'm not all the way there.

1511
00:56:22.520 --> 00:56:24.560
I think that yes, it is true.

1512
00:56:24.560 --> 00:56:27.880
Sometimes you have an extreme circumstance

1513
00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:29.400
where there's a particularly toxic person

1514
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:30.240
or something like that.

1515
00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:31.240
And yeah, like, you know,

1516
00:56:31.240 --> 00:56:32.680
you probably maybe you should not be around them.

1517
00:56:32.680 --> 00:56:34.760
And those can lead to very hard decisions.

1518
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:36.840
But I would say for the majority of life

1519
00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:38.520
and the majority of your relationships,

1520
00:56:38.520 --> 00:56:40.360
what we're really talking about here

1521
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:42.620
is not getting rid of relationships.

1522
00:56:42.620 --> 00:56:45.440
We're talking about finding specific places

1523
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:47.000
where that habit can thrive.

1524
00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:48.440
So here are some examples.

1525
00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:50.040
There's a number of studies that have shown

1526
00:56:50.040 --> 00:56:52.600
that it tends to be easier to build a new habit

1527
00:56:52.600 --> 00:56:54.040
in a new environment.

1528
00:56:54.040 --> 00:56:58.000
So for example, if you, well, first let me back up.

1529
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.320
There's an interesting way to define what habit is,

1530
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:01.920
which is that it is a behavior

1531
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:04.480
that is tied to a particular context.

1532
00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:07.960
So for example, your habit of watching Netflix

1533
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:11.760
might be tied to the context of your couch at 7 p.m.

1534
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:13.400
And whenever you walk into your living room

1535
00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:15.120
and you're by your couch and it's in the evening,

1536
00:57:15.120 --> 00:57:16.640
you're kind of naturally being pulled

1537
00:57:16.640 --> 00:57:18.320
toward picking up the remote and doing that

1538
00:57:18.360 --> 00:57:20.840
because that's the context the habit happens in.

1539
00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:22.960
So if you want to build a new habit,

1540
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:24.640
and again, these studies have found that

1541
00:57:24.640 --> 00:57:26.280
it tends to be easier to build a new habit

1542
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:27.760
in a new environment,

1543
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:29.840
well let's say you want to start a habit of journaling.

1544
00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:31.840
Well, you walk into your living room in the evening

1545
00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:33.080
and you sit down on the couch and you're like,

1546
00:57:33.080 --> 00:57:34.240
I'm going to start journaling,

1547
00:57:34.240 --> 00:57:36.680
but you're naturally, you know, your brain is kind of like,

1548
00:57:36.680 --> 00:57:39.280
well, it's time to pick up the remote and turn on the TV.

1549
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:42.280
That doesn't always mean that you need a brand new space

1550
00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:45.040
like a new building or a new room to do every habit in.

1551
00:57:45.040 --> 00:57:47.360
But you could do something like you could get a chair

1552
00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:48.840
and put it in the corner of the room

1553
00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:50.480
and that becomes the journaling chair.

1554
00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:52.400
And the only thing that you do when you sit in that chair

1555
00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:53.680
is you journal for five minutes.

1556
00:57:53.680 --> 00:57:57.560
So now you have a new context that is tied

1557
00:57:57.560 --> 00:57:59.400
to the behavior that you want to perform.

1558
00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:01.280
And in the social sense,

1559
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:03.040
so this is what we're talking about previously,

1560
00:58:03.040 --> 00:58:04.960
you want to be able to create a space

1561
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:06.480
that is a safe place for that environment

1562
00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:09.360
for that habit to live or for that habit to thrive, let's say.

1563
00:58:10.520 --> 00:58:13.240
Sometimes those spaces are ready made.

1564
00:58:13.240 --> 00:58:16.080
Like let's say you want to do yoga four days a week,

1565
00:58:16.080 --> 00:58:18.160
but you look around your family or your friends

1566
00:58:18.160 --> 00:58:19.160
and your apartment that you're living,

1567
00:58:19.160 --> 00:58:20.160
nobody else is interested.

1568
00:58:20.160 --> 00:58:21.280
They don't want to do it too.

1569
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.240
You do it in the living room, you kind of get made fun of

1570
00:58:23.240 --> 00:58:24.720
or you're stepping on other people's space

1571
00:58:24.720 --> 00:58:26.200
and like, I'm trying to do stuff in here too.

1572
00:58:26.200 --> 00:58:27.960
You know, it's just kind of inconvenient.

1573
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:29.720
Well, you can go to a yoga studio

1574
00:58:29.720 --> 00:58:31.720
and that's a place where for that hour,

1575
00:58:31.720 --> 00:58:33.080
you can be surrounded by a group

1576
00:58:33.080 --> 00:58:34.800
where your desired behavior is normal.

1577
00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:36.680
You don't have to fire any of your friends

1578
00:58:36.680 --> 00:58:38.160
and you can just go to the place

1579
00:58:38.160 --> 00:58:39.600
where that habit can thrive.

1580
00:58:39.600 --> 00:58:42.120
And I think each habit likes to have that.

1581
00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:44.200
It likes to have somewhere where it can exist

1582
00:58:44.200 --> 00:58:45.600
in a way that it's going to be supported

1583
00:58:45.720 --> 00:58:48.360
or in a way where the environment makes it easy.

1584
00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:51.160
Sometimes the environment is ready made like that.

1585
00:58:51.160 --> 00:58:52.560
Other times it's not.

1586
00:58:52.560 --> 00:58:54.560
So for me, one of the most useful things

1587
00:58:54.560 --> 00:58:56.960
that I did in my entrepreneurial career,

1588
00:58:56.960 --> 00:58:59.680
I had no entrepreneurs in my family, no authors.

1589
00:58:59.680 --> 00:59:01.720
So I had this thing that I kind of wanted to do,

1590
00:59:01.720 --> 00:59:03.440
but I didn't have anybody close to me

1591
00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:05.440
that I could like look to.

1592
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:06.840
First six months, I was entrepreneur.

1593
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:08.480
I sent like 300 cold emails,

1594
00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:11.040
just to other people that were like a year or two ahead of me.

1595
00:59:11.040 --> 00:59:13.480
Someone who seemed like you're actually doing this thing

1596
00:59:13.520 --> 00:59:15.360
where you've got this online audience

1597
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.320
and you're writing about stuff you like.

1598
00:59:18.840 --> 00:59:20.640
Maybe 30 people got back to me.

1599
00:59:20.640 --> 00:59:22.840
I did like a little Zoom call or whatever

1600
00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:24.880
and we chatted and connected.

1601
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:26.960
And then I met some of them at a conference

1602
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:27.760
like six months later.

1603
00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:28.800
So I was six months in.

1604
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:31.440
I knew like maybe 10 people that I met in person

1605
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.840
and I had like 30 that I had reached out to.

1606
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:35.920
So now it feels like okay,

1607
00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:38.040
at least I know a couple of people who've done this thing.

1608
00:59:38.040 --> 00:59:39.720
And I started hosting these retreats.

1609
00:59:39.720 --> 00:59:41.400
Every once or twice a year,

1610
00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:43.360
I get six or eight authors together

1611
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:45.160
and I'd say let's just rent an Airbnb,

1612
00:59:45.160 --> 00:59:47.640
we'll split the cost and we can talk about how to build an audience

1613
00:59:47.640 --> 00:59:49.720
and how to grow your email list

1614
00:59:49.720 --> 00:59:51.600
and how to write a book and launch it

1615
00:59:51.600 --> 00:59:54.960
and all the stuff that we were kind of focused on.

1616
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:58.360
It was almost always like the best week into my year

1617
00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:00.640
because I would have six months worth of stuff

1618
01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:03.480
that I need to execute on after that was done.

1619
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:06.840
That's kind of like going to a yoga studio for yoga

1620
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:08.400
but you had to create the space.

1621
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:10.640
I was always worried that I was gonna look like some dork

1622
01:00:10.640 --> 01:00:13.200
and invite everybody and they would all say no or whatever.

1623
01:00:13.200 --> 01:00:15.360
But everybody wants the same thing.

1624
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:17.160
They're all waiting for somebody to create the space

1625
01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:19.080
for like-minded people to get together.

1626
01:00:19.080 --> 01:00:21.040
So sometimes you need enough courage

1627
01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:22.680
to create the space yourself.

1628
01:00:22.680 --> 01:00:23.960
But the punchline is the same,

1629
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:26.040
which is you're trying to surround yourself

1630
01:00:26.040 --> 01:00:27.920
with people where your desired behavior

1631
01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:29.200
is the normal behavior.

1632
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:33.360
I've had so many founders speak to me and say,

1633
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:34.960
why didn't this particular ad that I ran

1634
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:36.960
on this platform work for me?

1635
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:38.000
Maybe the copy wasn't good,

1636
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:39.280
the creative wasn't strong,

1637
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:40.640
but usually the problem is they're not having

1638
01:00:40.640 --> 01:00:41.680
the right conversation

1639
01:00:41.680 --> 01:00:43.960
because that ad never reached the right person.

1640
01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:45.520
And if you're in B2B marketing,

1641
01:00:45.520 --> 01:00:47.080
that is much of the game.

1642
01:00:47.080 --> 01:00:50.560
And this is where LinkedIn ads solves that problem for you.

1643
01:00:50.560 --> 01:00:52.720
Their targeting is ridiculously specific.

1644
01:00:52.720 --> 01:00:55.240
You can target by job title, seniority,

1645
01:00:55.240 --> 01:00:56.720
company size, industry,

1646
01:00:56.720 --> 01:00:58.800
and even someone's skillset.

1647
01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.840
And their network includes over a billion professionals,

1648
01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:05.120
about 130 million of them are decision makers.

1649
01:01:05.120 --> 01:01:06.320
So when you use LinkedIn ads,

1650
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:09.120
you're putting your brand in front of the right people.

1651
01:01:09.120 --> 01:01:11.480
And LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B return

1652
01:01:11.600 --> 01:01:14.520
on ad spend across all ad networks and my experience.

1653
01:01:14.520 --> 01:01:16.080
If you want to give them a try,

1654
01:01:16.080 --> 01:01:19.640
head over to LinkedIn.com slash diary.

1655
01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:23.240
And when you spend $250 on your first LinkedIn ads campaign,

1656
01:01:23.240 --> 01:01:27.840
you'll get an extra $250 credit from me for the next one.

1657
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:30.480
That's LinkedIn.com slash diary,

1658
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:31.760
terms and conditions apply.

1659
01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:34.440
I'm thinking about all the people

1660
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:37.920
that are currently sat in a job that they don't like.

1661
01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:40.120
They're sat in the job in the middle of a big city,

1662
01:01:40.120 --> 01:01:40.960
they're miserable.

1663
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.040
They want to go do something else.

1664
01:01:42.040 --> 01:01:43.280
They want to go be an author.

1665
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:45.640
They want to go following your footsteps.

1666
01:01:45.640 --> 01:01:48.920
They want to build a business in a media business,

1667
01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:50.880
for example, but they're so far away from that.

1668
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:53.440
They're held in place by their parents' expectations.

1669
01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:55.000
They're held in place by a mortgage

1670
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:57.320
and all the things that, you know, life,

1671
01:01:57.320 --> 01:01:59.200
when they get home every day, they're tired,

1672
01:01:59.200 --> 01:02:00.040
really, really tired.

1673
01:02:00.040 --> 01:02:02.280
So it's a remainder dream.

1674
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:03.880
You must have so many of those people

1675
01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:06.000
that write to you, that message you,

1676
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.640
because of what you've produced

1677
01:02:07.640 --> 01:02:09.520
and because of the content that you make.

1678
01:02:10.520 --> 01:02:11.920
What'd you say to those people?

1679
01:02:13.240 --> 01:02:15.760
What is one such person's start?

1680
01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:18.640
One is, I don't think it serves you in any way

1681
01:02:18.640 --> 01:02:20.680
to just like kind of wallow and how hard it is

1682
01:02:20.680 --> 01:02:21.720
or to talk about how tough it.

1683
01:02:21.720 --> 01:02:23.480
Talking, complaining about how hard it is

1684
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:25.760
just makes it harder, you know?

1685
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:29.640
So the act of complaining makes a bad situation worse.

1686
01:02:29.640 --> 01:02:32.160
The act of emphasizing the things that are going well

1687
01:02:32.160 --> 01:02:35.560
or trying to take, it's kind of this endless game

1688
01:02:35.560 --> 01:02:37.880
of trying to take your current advantages

1689
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:39.680
and gain new advantages.

1690
01:02:39.680 --> 01:02:43.440
So like early on, most people don't have many advantages.

1691
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:45.080
Like I didn't know anybody in the industry,

1692
01:02:45.080 --> 01:02:47.480
I didn't have any money, I didn't have any experience.

1693
01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:50.800
But the one advantage I did have was I had time.

1694
01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:54.360
And so I could use that time to try to gain new advantages.

1695
01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:57.720
So in my case, I used the time to write two articles a week

1696
01:02:57.720 --> 01:02:59.240
and I did that for two years.

1697
01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:01.120
I did like kind of freelance gigs on the side

1698
01:03:01.120 --> 01:03:02.760
to pay the bills and stuff.

1699
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:04.880
And eventually that's how I built the audience.

1700
01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:07.000
And then once I had the audience two years later,

1701
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:08.680
then I had a new advantage, right?

1702
01:03:08.680 --> 01:03:11.000
I not only had time, I also had an email list.

1703
01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:12.960
Now I can go from there and I could get a book deal

1704
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:13.960
and then I have a new advantage.

1705
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:14.960
I have a book deal.

1706
01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:16.080
And then you know, you just kind of like

1707
01:03:16.080 --> 01:03:17.840
continually use your current advantages

1708
01:03:17.840 --> 01:03:19.320
to gain new advantages.

1709
01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:22.360
And I just talked about this for about 20 seconds.

1710
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:24.040
That was about seven years of my life.

1711
01:03:24.040 --> 01:03:25.960
I think that's the span of all that, right?

1712
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:28.240
It goes slower than what you want.

1713
01:03:28.240 --> 01:03:31.640
But it's kind of just that endless game.

1714
01:03:31.640 --> 01:03:33.800
It goes slower than you would want.

1715
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:35.800
Makes me think about this whole idea

1716
01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:36.920
being one percent better every day.

1717
01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:37.920
Yeah.

1718
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:38.920
Yeah.

1719
01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:40.360
What are the most sort of puttin' in parts

1720
01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:42.160
of understanding that growth?

1721
01:03:42.160 --> 01:03:43.760
Two things stand out, right?

1722
01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:46.360
So first is, this is, this charge to show it,

1723
01:03:46.360 --> 01:03:48.560
what this is showing is if you get 1% better

1724
01:03:48.560 --> 01:03:49.880
each day for a year, okay?

1725
01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:54.120
So 1.01 to 365th power.

1726
01:03:54.120 --> 01:03:56.200
You get 37 times better by the end of the year, right?

1727
01:03:56.200 --> 01:03:57.720
So that's this curve.

1728
01:03:57.720 --> 01:04:02.480
If you get 1% worse, 0.99 to 365th power,

1729
01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:04.640
you drive yourself almost all the way down zero.

1730
01:04:04.640 --> 01:04:07.760
Now, a chart like this is just compound interest, right?

1731
01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:09.440
This is just a compounding curve.

1732
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:12.320
And real life is not exactly a lot of compound interest.

1733
01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:13.640
You know, your habits are not exactly

1734
01:04:13.640 --> 01:04:15.560
like this mathematical formula.

1735
01:04:15.560 --> 01:04:17.320
But I think this chart does a good job

1736
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:21.080
of encapsulating what the process of behavior change feels like.

1737
01:04:21.080 --> 01:04:22.880
You know what it's like to try to get a little bit better

1738
01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:25.040
each day because two things are true.

1739
01:04:25.040 --> 01:04:26.520
These are the two things that stand out.

1740
01:04:26.520 --> 01:04:30.640
First, any compounding curve, the hallmark of any compounding

1741
01:04:30.640 --> 01:04:33.640
process is all the greatest returns are delayed, right?

1742
01:04:33.640 --> 01:04:35.920
You are 80% of the way through this curve

1743
01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:37.560
before it really starts to take off.

1744
01:04:37.560 --> 01:04:39.080
So all the greatest returns are delayed.

1745
01:04:39.080 --> 01:04:41.440
The early stuff doesn't feel that impressive.

1746
01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:46.200
The second is on day one, the separation between 0.99

1747
01:04:46.200 --> 01:04:48.840
and 1.01 is very small, right?

1748
01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:52.160
1% better or 1% worse is very minor.

1749
01:04:52.160 --> 01:04:56.080
So on any given day, it's very easy to dismiss.

1750
01:04:56.080 --> 01:04:57.960
You know, what is the difference between eating something

1751
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:00.160
healthy for lunch or eating something on healthy?

1752
01:05:00.160 --> 01:05:01.440
Today, basically nothing.

1753
01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:03.240
Your body looks the same in the mirror at the end of the night.

1754
01:05:03.240 --> 01:05:04.240
The scale hasn't changed.

1755
01:05:04.240 --> 01:05:05.440
You know, there's no evidence.

1756
01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:08.080
What is the difference between the person who reads

1757
01:05:08.080 --> 01:05:10.840
for 10 minutes today and the person who doesn't?

1758
01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:13.240
Basically nothing, reading for 10 minutes does not make

1759
01:05:13.240 --> 01:05:17.280
you a genius, but the person who always goes to bed

1760
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:19.560
a little bit smarter than they were when they woke up.

1761
01:05:19.560 --> 01:05:21.160
The person who always takes a little bit of time

1762
01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:22.840
each day to learn something new.

1763
01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:24.400
Yeah, two or five or 10 years later,

1764
01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:27.360
like that's a meaningful difference in wisdom and insight.

1765
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:29.960
And so you see the same pattern again and again

1766
01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:32.480
throughout life, which is what starts out small

1767
01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:34.640
and it's pretty insignificant, easy to dismiss

1768
01:05:34.640 --> 01:05:36.200
on a daily basis.

1769
01:05:36.200 --> 01:05:39.080
It compounds, it multiplies, it improves over time.

1770
01:05:39.080 --> 01:05:42.320
And so the effects of your habits are delayed.

1771
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:45.320
Time will magnify whatever you feed it.

1772
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:48.120
So if you have good habits, time becomes your ally.

1773
01:05:48.120 --> 01:05:49.760
And every day that goes by, you put yourself

1774
01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:51.040
in a stronger position.

1775
01:05:51.040 --> 01:05:53.600
If you have bad habits, time becomes your enemy.

1776
01:05:53.600 --> 01:05:54.960
And every day that goes by, you dig the hole

1777
01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:56.040
a little bit deeper.

1778
01:05:56.040 --> 01:05:58.520
And so the real lesson of a chart like this,

1779
01:05:58.520 --> 01:06:01.360
the real lesson of getting 1% better every day

1780
01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:03.880
is not to get wrapped up in the number.

1781
01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:05.560
It's not like, oh, is it a 1% improvement

1782
01:06:05.560 --> 01:06:08.360
or 1.6% or whatever, it's not about that.

1783
01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:10.320
It's an attitude, it's an approach.

1784
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:14.680
It's a focus and emphasis on trajectory

1785
01:06:14.680 --> 01:06:16.680
rather than position.

1786
01:06:16.680 --> 01:06:17.800
You know, there's a lot of discussion

1787
01:06:17.800 --> 01:06:19.400
about position in life.

1788
01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:20.800
How much money's in my bank account?

1789
01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:21.920
What's the number on the scale?

1790
01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:22.960
What's the stock price?

1791
01:06:22.960 --> 01:06:23.880
What are the quarterly earnings?

1792
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:26.160
We have all these measurements and metrics

1793
01:06:26.160 --> 01:06:27.920
for assessing our current position.

1794
01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:31.320
And then if the position isn't what we want it to be,

1795
01:06:31.520 --> 01:06:33.400
we get frustrated or we feel guilty

1796
01:06:33.400 --> 01:06:36.360
or we judge ourselves or get annoyed or whatever.

1797
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:37.760
And what I'm encouraging is to say,

1798
01:06:37.760 --> 01:06:39.160
listen, just for a minute,

1799
01:06:39.160 --> 01:06:42.240
let's stop worrying so much about our current position

1800
01:06:42.240 --> 01:06:46.440
and instead focus a little bit more on our current trajectory.

1801
01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:48.880
Am I getting 1% better or 1% worse?

1802
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:50.560
Is the arrow pointed up into the right

1803
01:06:50.560 --> 01:06:51.960
or have we flatlined?

1804
01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:55.040
So if you're on a good trajectory, all you need is time.

1805
01:06:55.040 --> 01:06:58.200
Hmm, this is, this has almost become a religious belief.

1806
01:06:58.200 --> 01:07:00.400
I think because I think for everything you've said,

1807
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:01.600
it has to become a religious belief

1808
01:07:01.600 --> 01:07:04.240
because the results are hard to see in the near term.

1809
01:07:04.240 --> 01:07:07.360
But it is most certainly a religious belief in our team.

1810
01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:09.200
I have multiple readers who got tattoos of it,

1811
01:07:09.200 --> 01:07:10.400
which I was not expecting.

1812
01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:11.880
I drew this on an index card

1813
01:07:11.880 --> 01:07:13.320
and now it's on somebody's body.

1814
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:14.920
It is.

1815
01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:17.200
Yeah, that was definitely surprising.

1816
01:07:17.200 --> 01:07:20.680
And it needs that religion because that first part

1817
01:07:20.680 --> 01:07:23.440
where you're doing something and there's no progress.

1818
01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:24.880
There's no evidence of progress.

1819
01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:26.080
There is something tricky about this.

1820
01:07:26.080 --> 01:07:27.000
So I think it's important.

1821
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:29.920
So we all have made this mistake before,

1822
01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:33.240
which is you can make 1% improvements that accumulate

1823
01:07:33.240 --> 01:07:36.040
and you can make 1% improvements that evaporate, right?

1824
01:07:36.040 --> 01:07:38.120
You can spend your time on trivial stuff.

1825
01:07:38.120 --> 01:07:40.080
Meaningful, you know, you'd see it can be meaningful

1826
01:07:40.080 --> 01:07:43.200
small changes or it can be meaningless small changes.

1827
01:07:43.200 --> 01:07:45.760
And so how do you decide the difference between the two?

1828
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:46.880
And that's kind of tricky.

1829
01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:49.160
And I don't know that you can always get it perfectly right,

1830
01:07:49.160 --> 01:07:51.760
but to me, the dividing line is,

1831
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:55.400
does this action accumulate into something larger or not?

1832
01:07:55.400 --> 01:07:57.600
You know, you can spend your time doing all small stuff

1833
01:07:57.600 --> 01:07:58.800
whatever day in and day out.

1834
01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:00.920
But are you building something bigger?

1835
01:08:00.920 --> 01:08:04.720
And so in a lot of ways, I think the two time frames

1836
01:08:04.720 --> 01:08:08.360
that matter most in life are 10 years and one hour.

1837
01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:10.320
You know, 10 years is just shorthand for like,

1838
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:12.520
what's the big meaningful stuff you're working toward?

1839
01:08:12.520 --> 01:08:13.720
You think about most of the stuff

1840
01:08:13.720 --> 01:08:17.000
that people really get, the meaningful movements in life.

1841
01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:19.200
Most of them are multi-year things.

1842
01:08:19.200 --> 01:08:21.200
You know, build a business that you're proud of,

1843
01:08:21.200 --> 01:08:23.240
raising a successful family, you know,

1844
01:08:23.240 --> 01:08:26.400
having a happy marriage, getting in the best shape of your life.

1845
01:08:26.400 --> 01:08:28.560
Whatever it is, contributing to some cause

1846
01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:31.120
that you care about, like they're usually big multi-year,

1847
01:08:31.120 --> 01:08:33.200
sometimes multi-decade things.

1848
01:08:33.200 --> 01:08:35.560
So 10 years is shorthand for that.

1849
01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:38.560
But if you can do one thing each day

1850
01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:40.440
that's gonna serve you well in 10 years,

1851
01:08:40.440 --> 01:08:42.800
if you can find one hour sometime today

1852
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:45.440
to do something that's gonna pay off in a decade,

1853
01:08:45.440 --> 01:08:47.200
you usually don't even need to wait 10 years

1854
01:08:47.200 --> 01:08:48.480
for it to really start to show up.

1855
01:08:48.480 --> 01:08:50.720
You know, usually you get two or three or four years into that

1856
01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:51.640
and you're like, wow, I can't believe

1857
01:08:51.640 --> 01:08:53.440
how this stuff's accumulating already.

1858
01:08:53.440 --> 01:08:55.680
And it makes me think again about your idea of systems

1859
01:08:55.680 --> 01:08:58.720
versus girls because the most exceptional founders I know,

1860
01:08:58.720 --> 01:09:01.280
they'll think about what can I do in the next hour

1861
01:09:01.280 --> 01:09:04.120
so that in 10 years time we're in a different place.

1862
01:09:04.120 --> 01:09:06.360
Which again, it sounds, I've said this a few times,

1863
01:09:06.360 --> 01:09:08.200
but one of the most important things in business,

1864
01:09:08.200 --> 01:09:09.840
I mean, the definition of the word company is hiring.

1865
01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:12.800
So most, I think all, nearly all problems I face

1866
01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:15.400
in business are a people problem.

1867
01:09:15.400 --> 01:09:16.960
It's like a people mistake that I have

1868
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:18.360
or haven't, you know, made yet.

1869
01:09:18.360 --> 01:09:20.200
So the fur I've got on my career

1870
01:09:20.200 --> 01:09:23.000
I've started to think that actually most of my,

1871
01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:26.720
the next hour of my life should be working on people

1872
01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:28.880
because that corrects what happens in 10 years time.

1873
01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:29.880
Like if we want to go,

1874
01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:32.320
if I want my company to go public in 10 years time

1875
01:09:32.320 --> 01:09:33.880
in the next hour, I should really be thinking

1876
01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:36.880
about a hiring process which will find the CFO

1877
01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:37.880
which will build the business.

1878
01:09:37.880 --> 01:09:40.040
I mean, here you are talking to me, right?

1879
01:09:40.040 --> 01:09:41.920
No, but I'm learning, Brad, I'm gonna go take it out

1880
01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:43.480
and I'm gonna go, no, but it's really,

1881
01:09:43.480 --> 01:09:44.920
it's really useful speaking to you about this

1882
01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:48.800
because it's given me the wording

1883
01:09:48.800 --> 01:09:50.920
to which will create memorability

1884
01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:52.400
which will create the repetitions and habits.

1885
01:09:52.400 --> 01:09:53.240
If you don't know what I'm saying,

1886
01:09:53.240 --> 01:09:54.080
is it on Shutter?

1887
01:09:54.080 --> 01:09:57.000
And I wasn't thinking in terms of systems and goals.

1888
01:09:57.000 --> 01:09:58.720
I was, I always referred to it with people,

1889
01:09:58.720 --> 01:10:00.960
I say, what's further stop stream?

1890
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:01.800
Yeah.

1891
01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:03.040
And this can also be what we're saying about sleep

1892
01:10:03.040 --> 01:10:05.440
and I see hiring for example in business

1893
01:10:05.440 --> 01:10:07.640
or actually generally in your personal life,

1894
01:10:07.640 --> 01:10:10.600
selecting people as the single most important factor

1895
01:10:10.600 --> 01:10:12.240
to everything that happens downstream.

1896
01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:14.440
Relationships in general are probably,

1897
01:10:14.440 --> 01:10:17.000
they're, it's obvious to everybody that they matter

1898
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:19.520
and yet they still are probably perpetually undervalued.

1899
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:20.360
Yes.

1900
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:22.120
It's true in a business sense,

1901
01:10:22.120 --> 01:10:23.240
which is what you're talking about here,

1902
01:10:23.240 --> 01:10:25.120
like almost every business problem at some level

1903
01:10:25.120 --> 01:10:26.080
could be a people problem

1904
01:10:26.080 --> 01:10:28.000
or there's a person who could unlock it

1905
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:29.320
and solve that problem.

1906
01:10:29.320 --> 01:10:30.480
It's true in a personal sense,

1907
01:10:30.480 --> 01:10:32.840
the most important decision you probably will make

1908
01:10:32.840 --> 01:10:35.280
is like whether or who you get married to

1909
01:10:35.280 --> 01:10:37.560
that will dramatically shape your life.

1910
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:42.480
It's also true in like just a luck business life sense

1911
01:10:42.480 --> 01:10:46.400
which is that there is no such thing as an opportunity

1912
01:10:46.400 --> 01:10:48.040
that is not tied to a person, right?

1913
01:10:48.040 --> 01:10:50.040
Like opportunities come through people

1914
01:10:50.080 --> 01:10:51.000
and so when you say,

1915
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:52.880
oh, I wish I could just like have some good luck

1916
01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:54.880
or I wish I could like catch my lucky break.

1917
01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:57.360
What you're probably talking about is there's a person

1918
01:10:57.360 --> 01:10:59.320
who carries that opportunity with them

1919
01:10:59.320 --> 01:11:01.440
that you need to interface with or get to know.

1920
01:11:01.440 --> 01:11:03.240
And so in all of these ways,

1921
01:11:03.240 --> 01:11:05.760
relationships dramatically shape our lives

1922
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:08.960
and yeah, people are probably the most important thing

1923
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:09.800
in that sense.

1924
01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:14.000
I think with age that becomes more apparent for most people.

1925
01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:15.560
It becomes more, most apparent

1926
01:11:15.560 --> 01:11:18.520
that the best decisions I've made in my life were people

1927
01:11:18.800 --> 01:11:21.880
and the worst decisions I've made in my life were also people.

1928
01:11:21.880 --> 01:11:22.720
But we don't think about that.

1929
01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:24.560
We think I'll work sat in Sunday in the office.

1930
01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:25.960
I'll have some great idea.

1931
01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:27.680
If I read a book, I'll have some great idea

1932
01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:29.680
which will make me lucky and successful,

1933
01:11:29.680 --> 01:11:32.880
whereas with time I realized that the smart work

1934
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:36.120
versus the hard work is focusing much more on people.

1935
01:11:36.120 --> 01:11:38.840
How do you, how does your work dovetail into things

1936
01:11:38.840 --> 01:11:41.440
like self-esteem and confidence

1937
01:11:41.440 --> 01:11:43.920
and because everybody wants to build confidence

1938
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:46.720
and for some people there in a bit of a downward

1939
01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:48.040
reinforcing confidence spiral,

1940
01:11:48.040 --> 01:11:50.000
which I guess would look something like this.

1941
01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:52.360
You know, something happened in their life.

1942
01:11:52.360 --> 01:11:54.160
So they're less likely to raise their hand

1943
01:11:54.160 --> 01:11:56.520
or to step outside of their zone of comfort.

1944
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:57.800
And even when and if they do,

1945
01:11:57.800 --> 01:12:01.560
they interpret it negatively and that knocks their confidence.

1946
01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:03.480
They see it, they're wearing sunglasses,

1947
01:12:03.480 --> 01:12:05.720
that interpret the things that are happening as negative.

1948
01:12:05.720 --> 01:12:09.160
And they're in this sort of downward compounding spiral.

1949
01:12:09.160 --> 01:12:11.560
And there's other people that seem to be going the other way.

1950
01:12:11.560 --> 01:12:15.360
First is I had a high school basketball coach

1951
01:12:15.360 --> 01:12:19.040
that told me confidence is just displayability.

1952
01:12:19.040 --> 01:12:21.920
And what he meant was if you want to feel more confident

1953
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:23.560
about like your ability to make a free throw,

1954
01:12:23.560 --> 01:12:24.920
go out there and shoot for an hour

1955
01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:26.280
and once you knock down 10 in a row,

1956
01:12:26.280 --> 01:12:27.880
you're going to feel a lot better about it.

1957
01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:30.440
And so what you realize, this is true for everything

1958
01:12:30.440 --> 01:12:33.840
which is once you have started to display your ability

1959
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:36.680
in any given area, you know, give a successful speech

1960
01:12:36.680 --> 01:12:38.840
or you know, make a nice presentation for work

1961
01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:41.640
or whatever it is, you feel better about it.

1962
01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:44.520
And so what you realize is you need reps,

1963
01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:45.720
you know, you need practice.

1964
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:48.200
Whatever the thing is, you need enough repetition

1965
01:12:48.200 --> 01:12:50.080
to start to learn how to do the thing.

1966
01:12:50.080 --> 01:12:53.280
And so this is why sometimes I'll say like motivation

1967
01:12:53.280 --> 01:12:55.080
comes after starting not before.

1968
01:12:55.080 --> 01:12:57.240
We think we need motivation to get started.

1969
01:12:57.240 --> 01:12:59.000
But in fact, you should try to scale it down

1970
01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:00.640
and make it so easy that you'll do it

1971
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:02.720
even if you don't feel that motivated about it

1972
01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:04.720
and start get some reps in.

1973
01:13:04.720 --> 01:13:06.120
And then once you've got,

1974
01:13:06.120 --> 01:13:08.080
and then once you perform the repetitions,

1975
01:13:08.080 --> 01:13:09.520
you start to build up some confidence

1976
01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:11.200
because you know that you have some evidence

1977
01:13:11.200 --> 01:13:12.200
that you can do it.

1978
01:13:12.200 --> 01:13:13.720
So confidence is displayability.

1979
01:13:13.720 --> 01:13:15.440
Let's try to scale it down, make it easy,

1980
01:13:15.440 --> 01:13:17.040
start to display our ability

1981
01:13:17.040 --> 01:13:19.880
and then the confidence comes to the side effect.

1982
01:13:19.880 --> 01:13:20.880
The second thing though,

1983
01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:23.080
and this might even be the more important piece,

1984
01:13:23.080 --> 01:13:25.000
you mentioned this idea of someone who

1985
01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:27.200
interprets things in a negative frame.

1986
01:13:27.200 --> 01:13:29.440
You know, they get in the cottonless like downward spiral,

1987
01:13:29.440 --> 01:13:31.600
they see like evidence of things working against them

1988
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:33.040
or the world is tilted against them

1989
01:13:33.040 --> 01:13:34.720
or like they're emphasizing the pieces

1990
01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:36.560
of the story that aren't serving them that well.

1991
01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:38.280
I had, so I played baseball for a long time,

1992
01:13:38.280 --> 01:13:40.000
I played through college.

1993
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:43.680
And when I was younger, I was 10, 12, 14,

1994
01:13:43.680 --> 01:13:45.200
after each season, we would do this thing.

1995
01:13:45.200 --> 01:13:47.360
My dad and I would go out and sit on the back deck

1996
01:13:47.360 --> 01:13:50.280
and we would talk about like the wins,

1997
01:13:50.280 --> 01:13:51.680
the good parts of the, you know,

1998
01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:53.240
the biggest games that our team won

1999
01:13:53.240 --> 01:13:55.320
or like my best plays from the ear

2000
01:13:55.320 --> 01:13:57.040
or just like things that I got better at

2001
01:13:57.040 --> 01:13:58.680
from the season before.

2002
01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:01.760
And I was never the best player on any team that I was on.

2003
01:14:01.760 --> 01:14:05.880
But you finish each season with a sense of positivity,

2004
01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:06.800
a sense of confidence,

2005
01:14:06.800 --> 01:14:09.720
this feeling of like momentum going into the next year.

2006
01:14:09.720 --> 01:14:12.320
And I think I played for a long time partially

2007
01:14:12.320 --> 01:14:14.240
because of that, you know, like we were,

2008
01:14:14.240 --> 01:14:17.480
it was a practice of emphasizing your wins.

2009
01:14:17.480 --> 01:14:20.320
And so I think that's an interesting thing

2010
01:14:20.320 --> 01:14:22.200
that like more people should try

2011
01:14:22.200 --> 01:14:24.280
is when you look back on your last year,

2012
01:14:24.280 --> 01:14:25.920
what are some of the wins that you've had?

2013
01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:27.160
And try to use that, you know,

2014
01:14:27.160 --> 01:14:29.280
tell yourself that story, emphasize that story

2015
01:14:29.280 --> 01:14:31.760
and use that to move into the next moment.

2016
01:14:31.760 --> 01:14:35.400
I was talking recently, so I had this publishing company

2017
01:14:35.400 --> 01:14:37.240
that I co-founded, Authors Equity,

2018
01:14:37.240 --> 01:14:38.960
and we're publishing this book

2019
01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:40.760
from the guy named Brandon Webb,

2020
01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:42.800
who is a former Navy SEAL,

2021
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:46.520
he trained the Navy SEAL sniper unit in mental performance.

2022
01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:49.360
And so he would teach them all kinds of things.

2023
01:14:49.360 --> 01:14:50.480
And I was talking to him about the book

2024
01:14:50.480 --> 01:14:52.400
and some of the strategies and I was trying to learn

2025
01:14:52.400 --> 01:14:54.720
like what they would do and two things stood out to me.

2026
01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:56.840
The first thing he said is a positive outlook

2027
01:14:56.840 --> 01:14:58.160
no matter the scenario.

2028
01:14:58.160 --> 01:14:59.240
So the first thing we train them on

2029
01:14:59.240 --> 01:15:01.120
is positive outlook no matter what situation

2030
01:15:01.120 --> 01:15:02.560
or scenario they're in.

2031
01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:06.760
The second thing is visualizing things going well.

2032
01:15:07.640 --> 01:15:09.400
So one time a sniper came up to him and said,

2033
01:15:09.400 --> 01:15:11.640
what's a good score on this course?

2034
01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:13.520
Like they would give them these little courses to test,

2035
01:15:13.520 --> 01:15:14.960
like, you know, they have to make eight or 10

2036
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:16.680
or 12 different shots or whatever.

2037
01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:18.760
And he said a good score is 100%.

2038
01:15:18.760 --> 01:15:21.040
I mean, he was like, now in reality,

2039
01:15:21.040 --> 01:15:23.280
almost nobody gets 100%.

2040
01:15:23.280 --> 01:15:25.800
But I wanted to set that standard, right?

2041
01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:27.560
To set that outcome in their mind

2042
01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:29.160
as the thing they were shooting for.

2043
01:15:29.160 --> 01:15:30.360
And he had two guys he was training,

2044
01:15:30.360 --> 01:15:32.840
one of them got 96, one of them got 100.

2045
01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:36.640
Anyway, the point is that in life,

2046
01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:38.320
there are always things that go well

2047
01:15:38.320 --> 01:15:39.520
and things that go poorly.

2048
01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:41.960
There will always be days that things are stacked against you

2049
01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:44.000
and days when things seem to go your way.

2050
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:46.920
And the question is, which story are you telling yourself?

2051
01:15:46.920 --> 01:15:49.840
You know, which version of the events are you emphasizing?

2052
01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:52.640
Now I'm not suggesting that you should like ignore reality,

2053
01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:54.480
you know, if there's a problem that needs to be addressed

2054
01:15:54.480 --> 01:15:56.040
and you still need to address it.

2055
01:15:56.040 --> 01:15:59.320
But as long as you're not ignoring reality,

2056
01:15:59.320 --> 01:16:01.040
I feel like the only thing that makes sense

2057
01:16:01.040 --> 01:16:03.240
is to emphasize the empowering version,

2058
01:16:03.240 --> 01:16:04.720
you know, to emphasize the wins,

2059
01:16:04.720 --> 01:16:06.440
to sit down and reflect on what you've done

2060
01:16:06.440 --> 01:16:07.560
and think about what the wins were

2061
01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:09.800
and how that feeds into your momentum going forward

2062
01:16:09.800 --> 01:16:11.400
and to visualize the next step

2063
01:16:11.400 --> 01:16:12.920
and how it's going to go well.

2064
01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:16.280
It reminds me of something Sir David Brillsford said to me,

2065
01:16:16.280 --> 01:16:19.880
who I know is the prominent in the first chapter of your book.

2066
01:16:19.880 --> 01:16:22.360
He was talking a lot about 1% gains, et cetera.

2067
01:16:22.360 --> 01:16:25.320
And he says the thing that he doesn't get to talk about enough

2068
01:16:25.320 --> 01:16:27.800
is the psychological momentum that's created

2069
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:31.320
from accomplishing these 1% gains

2070
01:16:31.320 --> 01:16:32.680
and celebrating them amongst the team.

2071
01:16:32.680 --> 01:16:34.960
He said to me that when he was in the British cycling team

2072
01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:36.520
and he went into there and they were down and out

2073
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:37.880
and depressed and kind of being ridiculed

2074
01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:39.280
for being this terrible team,

2075
01:16:39.280 --> 01:16:42.280
he goes, we started, you know, stacking up the 1%s, et cetera.

2076
01:16:42.280 --> 01:16:44.000
And the crazy thing that happened

2077
01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:47.600
is we started to quote, feel like we were going somewhere

2078
01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:50.480
and people stopped leaving the bike shop at 5 p.m.

2079
01:16:50.480 --> 01:16:52.480
and started staying until 2 a.m.

2080
01:16:52.480 --> 01:16:54.200
because they felt like they were going somewhere.

2081
01:16:54.200 --> 01:16:56.400
It dovetails and she'll point about progress,

2082
01:16:56.400 --> 01:16:59.640
but also just the power of being intentional

2083
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:01.920
about celebrating those wins

2084
01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:03.360
and the psychological momentum it creates

2085
01:17:03.360 --> 01:17:04.920
the group of people on yourself.

2086
01:17:04.920 --> 01:17:06.000
That's great.

2087
01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:07.920
I think you do need to be a little bit more intentional

2088
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:08.920
about it in the real world.

2089
01:17:08.920 --> 01:17:12.280
So if you look at some of the most habit-forming technologies

2090
01:17:12.280 --> 01:17:13.640
or some of the most habit-forming things,

2091
01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:15.720
like let's take video games, for example.

2092
01:17:15.720 --> 01:17:20.880
In a video game, there are continual, constant forms of progress.

2093
01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:24.400
So your score is increasing in like the top corner of the screen,

2094
01:17:24.400 --> 01:17:26.760
whenever you pick up a weapon or a ruby or a jam

2095
01:17:26.760 --> 01:17:28.360
or whatever's like a little jingle or a chime

2096
01:17:28.360 --> 01:17:31.480
or some musical note, even the pitter-patter of footsteps

2097
01:17:31.480 --> 01:17:32.960
as you run through the level

2098
01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:34.760
is a signal that you're making progress,

2099
01:17:34.760 --> 01:17:37.280
that you're moving forward, that you're going somewhere.

2100
01:17:37.280 --> 01:17:40.120
And so if you compare all of that immediate feedback,

2101
01:17:40.120 --> 01:17:41.640
that you're getting all in the same moment

2102
01:17:41.640 --> 01:17:43.360
when you're playing this level,

2103
01:17:43.360 --> 01:17:45.800
and then you walk outside and you think about

2104
01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:47.520
most of the things you're working on in real life,

2105
01:17:47.520 --> 01:17:50.120
you're like, this committee's been meeting every Friday

2106
01:17:50.120 --> 01:17:52.360
for six months, so we still haven't shipped this feature.

2107
01:17:52.360 --> 01:17:54.200
I've been running every day for the last month

2108
01:17:54.200 --> 01:17:55.920
and I still don't see a change in my body.

2109
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:59.880
And so it's very hard to compare the digital world

2110
01:17:59.880 --> 01:18:01.320
and all the progress that we get there

2111
01:18:01.320 --> 01:18:03.720
through our screens to the physical world

2112
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:05.080
and the habits that we're trying to build

2113
01:18:05.080 --> 01:18:07.360
and foster in our lives and businesses.

2114
01:18:07.360 --> 01:18:09.440
And I think that's one reason why it is nice

2115
01:18:09.440 --> 01:18:11.040
to be more intentional about it,

2116
01:18:11.040 --> 01:18:13.720
to try to think about what are the 1% improvements

2117
01:18:13.720 --> 01:18:15.960
or the small gains that we can make today,

2118
01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:17.680
and then celebrating those wins

2119
01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:20.160
so that you have some feeling of progress there,

2120
01:18:20.160 --> 01:18:23.520
because in the real world, progress is often delayed.

2121
01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:25.480
My parents like to swim.

2122
01:18:25.480 --> 01:18:28.000
Well, if they were swimming for the change

2123
01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:29.320
that they're going to see in their body,

2124
01:18:29.360 --> 01:18:30.640
it takes two years.

2125
01:18:30.640 --> 01:18:33.040
Like the problem is they jump into the water

2126
01:18:33.040 --> 01:18:35.640
and their body looks exactly the same when they get out, right?

2127
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:37.560
And so you need something in the moment

2128
01:18:37.560 --> 01:18:39.520
that gives you some signal progress.

2129
01:18:39.520 --> 01:18:42.240
They use a habit tracker, so they have like a little template

2130
01:18:42.240 --> 01:18:44.240
where they just put a little X on that day,

2131
01:18:44.240 --> 01:18:47.240
but you need something that visualizes your progress,

2132
01:18:47.240 --> 01:18:49.040
that gives you some signal that you're moving forward.

2133
01:18:49.040 --> 01:18:51.200
I was reminded then of the Harvard Business Review

2134
01:18:51.200 --> 01:18:52.240
did the study where they asked people

2135
01:18:52.240 --> 01:18:53.440
what their best day in work was

2136
01:18:53.440 --> 01:18:54.680
and they asked them to keep work diaries.

2137
01:18:54.680 --> 01:18:56.360
I think it was about 1,000 people.

2138
01:18:56.360 --> 01:18:58.160
And the majority of people pointed out today

2139
01:18:58.160 --> 01:18:59.320
in their work diary and that week

2140
01:18:59.320 --> 01:19:00.680
where they had a feeling of progress,

2141
01:19:00.680 --> 01:19:02.200
even if it was tiny.

2142
01:19:02.200 --> 01:19:04.840
And this goes to your point about making it fun as well.

2143
01:19:04.840 --> 01:19:07.280
So highlighting one's progress and celebrating it

2144
01:19:07.280 --> 01:19:09.880
makes it fun, but also that psychological momentum.

2145
01:19:09.880 --> 01:19:11.080
And then also you can do this stuff.

2146
01:19:11.080 --> 01:19:12.800
You can do the one percent better every day.

2147
01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:15.720
You put yourself in a position to experience

2148
01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:19.080
the feeling of progress if you scale your habits down.

2149
01:19:19.080 --> 01:19:20.960
So let's say, sometimes in chemistry,

2150
01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:23.960
there's this kind of active activation energy.

2151
01:19:23.960 --> 01:19:26.880
How much energy it takes to activate a reaction?

2152
01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:29.240
So if the activation energy is high,

2153
01:19:29.240 --> 01:19:31.120
you have to put a lot of heat or a lot of energy

2154
01:19:31.120 --> 01:19:33.440
into the reaction to make it occur.

2155
01:19:33.440 --> 01:19:36.280
I think habits kind of have an activation energy too.

2156
01:19:36.280 --> 01:19:40.240
So let's say that your habit is to do 100 pushups a day.

2157
01:19:40.240 --> 01:19:42.000
The activation energy for that's kind of high.

2158
01:19:42.000 --> 01:19:44.280
On the first day, when you're really pumped about it,

2159
01:19:44.280 --> 01:19:46.280
maybe you're doing sets of 10 all throughout the day

2160
01:19:46.280 --> 01:19:47.800
and you get to 100 and you feel really good.

2161
01:19:47.800 --> 01:19:49.320
Maybe you can do that for a couple of days

2162
01:19:49.320 --> 01:19:53.160
or a week or whatever, but at some point,

2163
01:19:53.160 --> 01:19:54.600
you get to a day where you're tired

2164
01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:56.000
or you have a lot to do at work or whatever

2165
01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:57.880
and then you turn around, it's 9.30 and you're like,

2166
01:19:57.880 --> 01:19:59.120
I need to go to bed soon.

2167
01:19:59.120 --> 01:20:02.440
I feel like doing 100 pushups and then you skip it.

2168
01:20:02.440 --> 01:20:04.360
But if you're something much smaller,

2169
01:20:04.360 --> 01:20:07.320
like your goal is to do one pushup or 10 pushups,

2170
01:20:07.320 --> 01:20:08.560
well, that is a lot easier

2171
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:10.480
and the activation energy is much lower.

2172
01:20:10.480 --> 01:20:12.440
And so then you get to that day eight or nine

2173
01:20:12.440 --> 01:20:14.760
or 10 days in when it's 9.30,

2174
01:20:14.760 --> 01:20:17.200
you can still do 10 pushups before you go to bed, right?

2175
01:20:17.200 --> 01:20:20.320
And so you still get the feeling of progress.

2176
01:20:20.320 --> 01:20:22.160
You still get the feeling that you're moving forward

2177
01:20:22.160 --> 01:20:25.120
simply because you set the bar lower to start.

2178
01:20:25.120 --> 01:20:27.840
You know, if the bar is perfect at the beginning,

2179
01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:30.000
it's really hard to maintain that for very long.

2180
01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:32.360
But if the bar is getting you in,

2181
01:20:32.360 --> 01:20:34.840
now you build momentum and you get the feeling of progress

2182
01:20:34.840 --> 01:20:37.440
and you get a month or two months or three months in

2183
01:20:37.440 --> 01:20:38.920
and you still have a street going

2184
01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:40.480
and you feel pretty good about yourself.

2185
01:20:40.480 --> 01:20:43.000
And at some point, you start doing it enough

2186
01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:45.720
that you realize, okay, there will probably be a day

2187
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:48.760
and here where I miss, but I still feel good about who I am

2188
01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:49.960
and how much I've shown up here

2189
01:20:49.960 --> 01:20:52.000
and like you've proven a lot to yourself.

2190
01:20:52.000 --> 01:20:54.480
And so I think sometimes scaling it down

2191
01:20:54.520 --> 01:20:57.360
and making it easy gives yourself a better opportunity

2192
01:20:57.360 --> 01:20:58.720
to feel progress.

2193
01:20:58.720 --> 01:21:00.960
Two words you said in the last couple of minutes,

2194
01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:02.600
one of them was your parents use a habit tracker

2195
01:21:02.600 --> 01:21:04.560
and the other one was use the word streak.

2196
01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:05.400
Yeah.

2197
01:21:05.400 --> 01:21:06.720
Do you understand the context of this job

2198
01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:08.320
that is for me with paper clips?

2199
01:21:08.320 --> 01:21:09.760
Could you explain to me,

2200
01:21:09.760 --> 01:21:12.680
habit tracking and streaks and why they matter?

2201
01:21:12.680 --> 01:21:14.840
So when I was working on Tom McAvitz,

2202
01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:16.880
I came across this guy named Trent Dersman

2203
01:21:16.880 --> 01:21:20.000
and he had an interesting story.

2204
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:23.240
He's an entrepreneur now, but early in his career,

2205
01:21:23.240 --> 01:21:25.080
he had this job where he was a stock broker

2206
01:21:25.080 --> 01:21:26.360
in Abbotsford, Canada.

2207
01:21:26.360 --> 01:21:28.320
And Abbotsford, this is like in the nineties,

2208
01:21:28.320 --> 01:21:30.280
time is like pretty small town.

2209
01:21:30.280 --> 01:21:33.280
Like it wasn't, you know, some big city.

2210
01:21:33.280 --> 01:21:36.360
And he was supposed to just drive more business,

2211
01:21:36.360 --> 01:21:38.320
but like, you know, they didn't have a lot of advantages.

2212
01:21:38.320 --> 01:21:40.080
It wasn't like he was a New York or whatever.

2213
01:21:40.080 --> 01:21:42.480
He had this one simple habit that he used

2214
01:21:42.480 --> 01:21:46.080
to end up becoming the top performer in the firm

2215
01:21:46.080 --> 01:21:47.680
and building the biggest book of business there

2216
01:21:47.680 --> 01:21:49.280
over like the next couple of years.

2217
01:21:49.280 --> 01:21:52.040
And it was this simple strategy of paper clips.

2218
01:21:52.040 --> 01:21:55.120
So all he did, a lot of his stock broker friends

2219
01:21:55.120 --> 01:21:57.400
who were like also working in this job,

2220
01:21:57.400 --> 01:21:59.080
they would read analyst reports,

2221
01:21:59.080 --> 01:22:00.280
they would look at the news,

2222
01:22:00.280 --> 01:22:02.800
they would try to analyze companies, financial statements,

2223
01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:03.720
they were doing all this other stuff.

2224
01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:05.560
And he said, I'm not going to do that.

2225
01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:08.840
All I'm going to do is I'm going to make a sales call.

2226
01:22:08.840 --> 01:22:10.280
And whenever I make a call,

2227
01:22:10.280 --> 01:22:12.480
sale tight, anybody put these on.

2228
01:22:12.480 --> 01:22:15.440
Whenever I make a call, I'm going to make a sales call

2229
01:22:15.440 --> 01:22:17.080
and then I'm going to take one paper clip

2230
01:22:17.080 --> 01:22:18.960
and then I'm moved over.

2231
01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:20.920
And then I'm going to make another sales call.

2232
01:22:20.920 --> 01:22:23.040
I'm going to take another paper clip and move it over.

2233
01:22:23.040 --> 01:22:25.720
And he had 100 paper clips in the jar.

2234
01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:27.840
And his goal every day was to move 100

2235
01:22:27.840 --> 01:22:29.360
from one jar to the next.

2236
01:22:29.360 --> 01:22:30.840
And that was all he did.

2237
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:32.240
And with that one simple habit,

2238
01:22:32.240 --> 01:22:35.120
he ended up building this huge book of business.

2239
01:22:35.120 --> 01:22:36.120
Two things about this.

2240
01:22:36.120 --> 01:22:39.120
One, obviously, he has a visual marker

2241
01:22:39.120 --> 01:22:41.080
of the progress that he's making, right?

2242
01:22:41.080 --> 01:22:43.040
So moving paper clips to the other jar

2243
01:22:43.040 --> 01:22:45.560
is a way to see that he's progressing throughout the day.

2244
01:22:45.560 --> 01:22:47.960
It also makes it a little bit into like a little game.

2245
01:22:47.960 --> 01:22:50.200
You know, it's like, okay, how quickly can I move

2246
01:22:50.200 --> 01:22:51.040
paper clips over?

2247
01:22:51.040 --> 01:22:52.720
How much progress am I making?

2248
01:22:52.720 --> 01:22:55.080
Do I have 50 over by the time lunch rolls around?

2249
01:22:55.080 --> 01:22:57.680
You know, you can start to see how you have a little bit

2250
01:22:57.680 --> 01:23:00.960
of these progressive markers throughout the day.

2251
01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:03.120
But the other thing that I think is interesting about it

2252
01:23:03.120 --> 01:23:05.760
is he boiled it down to just what was the one thing

2253
01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:07.280
that really moved the needle?

2254
01:23:07.280 --> 01:23:09.080
You know, and he just focused on that.

2255
01:23:09.080 --> 01:23:10.720
And there are so many things in life

2256
01:23:10.720 --> 01:23:14.040
that it's really easy to get focused on the optimization.

2257
01:23:14.040 --> 01:23:18.120
It's so focused on finding the perfect sale strategy,

2258
01:23:18.120 --> 01:23:21.200
the best business plan, the ideal diet to follow.

2259
01:23:21.200 --> 01:23:22.960
You're so focused on optimizing, you're like,

2260
01:23:22.960 --> 01:23:25.120
okay, how about sometimes people will come to me

2261
01:23:25.120 --> 01:23:26.440
and they say they want to build an audience

2262
01:23:26.440 --> 01:23:29.360
and they'd like ask about all the tactics and the strategies.

2263
01:23:29.360 --> 01:23:32.000
And I say, just write an article every week

2264
01:23:32.000 --> 01:23:33.960
for the next two years and then get back to me.

2265
01:23:33.960 --> 01:23:35.520
Like, let's not skip that part.

2266
01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:36.600
Can we start there?

2267
01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:38.520
Or like, let's not miss a workout for two years.

2268
01:23:38.520 --> 01:23:39.920
And then like we can talk about

2269
01:23:39.920 --> 01:23:41.560
whether the program's working or not.

2270
01:23:41.560 --> 01:23:43.040
You know, and it's like that.

2271
01:23:43.040 --> 01:23:46.440
So I think this helps you focus on what is the big thing

2272
01:23:46.440 --> 01:23:48.160
that's really moving the needle.

2273
01:23:48.160 --> 01:23:50.040
I was thinking about it through the frame

2274
01:23:50.040 --> 01:23:51.360
of the habit cycle as well.

2275
01:23:51.360 --> 01:23:53.480
Because as I look at this habit cycle,

2276
01:23:53.480 --> 01:23:55.280
I'm seeing reward being hit.

2277
01:23:55.280 --> 01:23:59.160
I'm seeing a design for an outcome as well.

2278
01:23:59.160 --> 01:24:00.480
Yeah, this is interesting.

2279
01:24:00.480 --> 01:24:02.280
So we haven't talked about this yet.

2280
01:24:02.280 --> 01:24:03.640
So let me just break it down real quick.

2281
01:24:03.640 --> 01:24:05.920
So if you're building a habit,

2282
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:07.640
there are roughly four different stages

2283
01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:08.840
that every habit goes through.

2284
01:24:08.840 --> 01:24:10.000
So I call them in the book,

2285
01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:11.000
in an atomic habit cycle,

2286
01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:13.200
I call them Q Craving Response and Reward.

2287
01:24:13.200 --> 01:24:15.120
So the Q is just something that you notice.

2288
01:24:15.200 --> 01:24:16.360
So let's say, for example,

2289
01:24:16.360 --> 01:24:18.400
you see the play to cookies on the counter in the kitchen.

2290
01:24:18.400 --> 01:24:20.080
That's a visual Q.

2291
01:24:20.080 --> 01:24:23.200
The Craving is the prediction that your brain makes

2292
01:24:23.200 --> 01:24:24.480
about what that Q means.

2293
01:24:24.480 --> 01:24:26.480
So you see the play to cookies, your brain predicts,

2294
01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:28.760
oh, that'll be sweet, sugary, tasty, enjoyable.

2295
01:24:28.760 --> 01:24:31.200
So that favorable prediction motivates you

2296
01:24:31.200 --> 01:24:32.360
to take the response.

2297
01:24:32.360 --> 01:24:33.840
That's the third step you walk over,

2298
01:24:33.840 --> 01:24:35.600
pick it up and take a bite.

2299
01:24:35.600 --> 01:24:37.640
And then finally, the fourth step is the reward.

2300
01:24:37.640 --> 01:24:40.280
Oh, it is in fact sweet, sugary, tasty, enjoyable.

2301
01:24:40.280 --> 01:24:42.200
So Q Craving Response Reward.

2302
01:24:43.040 --> 01:24:47.160
These steps are basically what every habitual behavior

2303
01:24:47.160 --> 01:24:50.360
is going through, even really automatic stuff.

2304
01:24:50.360 --> 01:24:51.880
Like let's say you walk into a room

2305
01:24:51.880 --> 01:24:53.080
and the lights are off.

2306
01:24:53.080 --> 01:24:55.000
So Q, it's dark.

2307
01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:57.600
Craving, I wanna be able to see response,

2308
01:24:57.600 --> 01:24:58.840
I flip on the light switch,

2309
01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:00.320
reward the lights come on.

2310
01:25:00.320 --> 01:25:02.080
Now it's visible out there.

2311
01:25:02.080 --> 01:25:04.000
So even really fast stuff,

2312
01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:05.960
like turning on a light switch is going through

2313
01:25:05.960 --> 01:25:07.240
those four steps.

2314
01:25:07.240 --> 01:25:09.200
So pretty much every habit follows that cycle.

2315
01:25:09.200 --> 01:25:12.160
And you can see that this paperclip strategy

2316
01:25:12.160 --> 01:25:13.880
does kind of play into this a little bit.

2317
01:25:13.880 --> 01:25:16.360
Q, you have the paperclips on the desk, right?

2318
01:25:16.360 --> 01:25:18.600
So like not only do you want to make the sales calls

2319
01:25:18.600 --> 01:25:19.720
for a business standpoint,

2320
01:25:19.720 --> 01:25:21.520
but you also have these staring at you every morning

2321
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:22.400
when you come into your desk.

2322
01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:24.520
And so it's a little bit of a visual reminder.

2323
01:25:24.520 --> 01:25:26.000
Reminds you, prompts you to think,

2324
01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:27.720
okay, I do wanna make these calls

2325
01:25:27.720 --> 01:25:29.040
and try to drive more business

2326
01:25:29.040 --> 01:25:32.320
or build up the, make another successful sales call.

2327
01:25:32.320 --> 01:25:33.960
That Craving gets you to pick up a phone,

2328
01:25:33.960 --> 01:25:35.080
which is the actual response.

2329
01:25:35.080 --> 01:25:38.200
And then the reward is I get to move the paperclip over.

2330
01:25:38.200 --> 01:25:41.240
And now I feel like, yeah, you get the little ting,

2331
01:25:41.240 --> 01:25:43.560
jingle in your ear of the paperclip hitting

2332
01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:47.640
and it just adds to the reward effect.

2333
01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:50.640
What I think is most interesting is how do we take this,

2334
01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:51.920
how do we take these four steps

2335
01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:53.920
that basically all behaviors go through

2336
01:25:53.920 --> 01:25:56.200
and then translate it into something

2337
01:25:56.200 --> 01:25:59.520
that we can use and apply in daily life and work.

2338
01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:02.120
So I call this the four laws of behavior change.

2339
01:26:02.120 --> 01:26:03.960
So there's one for each step.

2340
01:26:03.960 --> 01:26:05.320
Yeah, you got them right here.

2341
01:26:05.320 --> 01:26:06.760
I'll give them to you.

2342
01:26:06.760 --> 01:26:09.920
So I call these the four laws of behavior change, right?

2343
01:26:09.920 --> 01:26:13.440
So for the queue, the first law is you wanna make it obvious,

2344
01:26:13.440 --> 01:26:14.280
right?

2345
01:26:14.280 --> 01:26:15.120
You want the queues.

2346
01:26:15.120 --> 01:26:16.480
You want the queues of your good habits

2347
01:26:16.480 --> 01:26:19.760
to be obvious, available, visible, easy to see.

2348
01:26:19.760 --> 01:26:22.000
Easier it is to see your get your attention,

2349
01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:23.800
the more likely you are to act on it.

2350
01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:25.280
So a lot of that's about environment,

2351
01:26:25.280 --> 01:26:26.400
it's about making things obvious,

2352
01:26:26.400 --> 01:26:29.520
but it's the queue, get your attention, something you notice.

2353
01:26:29.520 --> 01:26:32.480
So let's put this in the context of me wanting to make sure

2354
01:26:32.480 --> 01:26:34.160
I have my supplement routine every day.

2355
01:26:34.160 --> 01:26:35.760
Sure, because that's something I think about.

2356
01:26:35.760 --> 01:26:36.840
Yeah, I wanna have my creativity and everything.

2357
01:26:36.840 --> 01:26:38.960
So it's like, where's the creativity in the kitchen?

2358
01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:41.040
It knows that it is a tucked up in a high shelf

2359
01:26:41.040 --> 01:26:42.520
and it's behind like a cabinet door

2360
01:26:42.520 --> 01:26:43.440
and you don't really see it,

2361
01:26:43.440 --> 01:26:44.680
or is it like out on the counter?

2362
01:26:44.680 --> 01:26:45.880
It's one of the first things that you see.

2363
01:26:45.880 --> 01:26:48.760
So they're varying degrees of what you wanna do here

2364
01:26:48.760 --> 01:26:50.000
and like what you wanna place out,

2365
01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:52.200
but you're just trying to make the good habit obvious.

2366
01:26:52.200 --> 01:26:53.920
You wanna make it easy to notice.

2367
01:26:53.920 --> 01:26:55.520
Reminds me of when I started DJing

2368
01:26:55.520 --> 01:26:56.960
and the DJing equipment was up,

2369
01:26:56.960 --> 01:26:58.600
stands in the spare room out the way.

2370
01:26:58.600 --> 01:27:00.480
And I had a conversation with my girlfriend who'd do that.

2371
01:27:00.480 --> 01:27:01.880
And I was like, I wanna really wanna learn DJing.

2372
01:27:01.880 --> 01:27:04.400
So can I put it on the kitchen counter for the next year?

2373
01:27:04.400 --> 01:27:05.240
Mm.

2374
01:27:05.240 --> 01:27:06.760
Because then I'll be walking past one day and go,

2375
01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:08.720
oh DJ, and then I put it on the kitchen counter

2376
01:27:08.760 --> 01:27:09.560
and then I started DJing.

2377
01:27:09.560 --> 01:27:12.600
I have a reader who he would go to his guitar lessons

2378
01:27:12.600 --> 01:27:13.880
and he would practice with his teacher

2379
01:27:13.880 --> 01:27:15.200
and then he'd give him some homework

2380
01:27:15.200 --> 01:27:17.160
to practice certain scales or whatever.

2381
01:27:17.160 --> 01:27:20.280
And then he would come back and he would take his guitar,

2382
01:27:20.280 --> 01:27:23.480
put it in the case at the end of each session

2383
01:27:23.480 --> 01:27:24.760
and put it in the closet.

2384
01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:26.040
Well, I didn't forget it was there for a week

2385
01:27:26.040 --> 01:27:27.640
and then the next week would roll around

2386
01:27:27.640 --> 01:27:29.080
and he'd pick it out and go to practice

2387
01:27:29.080 --> 01:27:31.440
and he'd be like, you didn't do this throughout the week.

2388
01:27:31.440 --> 01:27:33.400
So he bought a guitar stand

2389
01:27:33.400 --> 01:27:35.160
and put it in the center of the living room.

2390
01:27:35.160 --> 01:27:37.200
Now he passes it 30 times a day,

2391
01:27:37.200 --> 01:27:39.560
much more likely to pick it up and play for five minutes.

2392
01:27:39.560 --> 01:27:42.480
So it's just making your habits obvious.

2393
01:27:42.480 --> 01:27:44.680
The second law is about the craving

2394
01:27:44.680 --> 01:27:46.400
and it's all about making it attractive.

2395
01:27:46.400 --> 01:27:48.720
And this is where I mentioned earlier

2396
01:27:48.720 --> 01:27:51.160
that question of what would this look like if it was fun.

2397
01:27:51.160 --> 01:27:52.560
You want your habits to be fun,

2398
01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:55.200
compelling, attractive, interesting to you.

2399
01:27:55.200 --> 01:27:57.040
And the more engaging or exciting it is,

2400
01:27:57.040 --> 01:27:58.480
the more likely I would stick with it.

2401
01:27:58.480 --> 01:28:02.000
So like I had one woman who she wanted to stop

2402
01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:04.120
going out to eat for lunch at work every day

2403
01:28:04.120 --> 01:28:05.480
and start bringing her lunch in

2404
01:28:05.480 --> 01:28:07.040
because she felt like it would be healthier

2405
01:28:07.120 --> 01:28:09.240
but the idea of making like a salad for lunch

2406
01:28:09.240 --> 01:28:10.360
wasn't that exciting to her.

2407
01:28:10.360 --> 01:28:13.360
So she came up with this phrase of a party and a bowl.

2408
01:28:13.360 --> 01:28:16.280
And so in the beginning she would do all kinds of stuff.

2409
01:28:16.280 --> 01:28:18.040
She would like take potato chips and crumble them up

2410
01:28:18.040 --> 01:28:18.920
and put them in there

2411
01:28:18.920 --> 01:28:20.760
or she would like chop up sneakers bars

2412
01:28:20.760 --> 01:28:22.520
and put them in with the salad or whatever.

2413
01:28:22.520 --> 01:28:24.480
She was just trying to find a way to make it fun.

2414
01:28:24.480 --> 01:28:27.920
And then once she was already bringing lunch in every day,

2415
01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:29.720
you know, after she did this for a month or so,

2416
01:28:29.720 --> 01:28:30.720
then she was like, all right,

2417
01:28:30.720 --> 01:28:32.080
I'm in the habit of bringing lunch in.

2418
01:28:32.080 --> 01:28:33.720
How can I start to make lunch healthier?

2419
01:28:33.720 --> 01:28:35.920
So find a way to make your habit attractive.

2420
01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:39.800
The third law is to make it easy.

2421
01:28:39.800 --> 01:28:42.800
This is all about making it simple, frictionless,

2422
01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:43.640
easy to do.

2423
01:28:43.640 --> 01:28:46.200
The more convenient or frictionless your habits are,

2424
01:28:46.200 --> 01:28:47.920
the more likely they are to occur.

2425
01:28:47.920 --> 01:28:49.200
We've talked about this a lot already

2426
01:28:49.200 --> 01:28:51.000
but it's scaling your habits down.

2427
01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:53.840
It's using the two-minute rule to make it as easy as you can

2428
01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:56.080
but the easier a habit is to perform,

2429
01:28:56.080 --> 01:28:57.880
the more likely it is to happen.

2430
01:28:57.880 --> 01:29:00.040
Daniel Kahneman, the famous psychologist,

2431
01:29:00.040 --> 01:29:03.480
I think he once said that if you were to boil behavior down

2432
01:29:03.520 --> 01:29:05.000
to like a single principle,

2433
01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:07.000
a single thing that drives human behavior,

2434
01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:08.720
it's convenience, it's ease.

2435
01:29:08.720 --> 01:29:11.000
You know, what is the easy thing to do?

2436
01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:15.120
We're biological organisms and we expend energy to live

2437
01:29:15.120 --> 01:29:18.600
and it is in your best interest to try to conserve energy

2438
01:29:18.600 --> 01:29:19.760
whenever you can.

2439
01:29:19.760 --> 01:29:21.800
And so the more your brain is wired for it,

2440
01:29:21.800 --> 01:29:23.280
you're always looking for it.

2441
01:29:23.280 --> 01:29:26.080
In fact, many of the largest businesses in the world

2442
01:29:26.080 --> 01:29:29.960
basically just take a human desire that we already want to do

2443
01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:31.880
and try to make it even more convenient.

2444
01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:34.280
Like door dash is just like you need food,

2445
01:29:34.280 --> 01:29:35.800
just tap a couple times through the thumb

2446
01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:36.840
and we'll give it to you.

2447
01:29:36.840 --> 01:29:39.200
I mean, in fact, the whole arc of human history

2448
01:29:39.200 --> 01:29:42.160
and how we get food is just been one long path

2449
01:29:42.160 --> 01:29:44.000
of making it more and more convenient.

2450
01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:46.200
It used to be that we were hunter-gatherers

2451
01:29:46.200 --> 01:29:48.680
and had to kill our food or forage for berries in the bush

2452
01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:50.400
and then we started growing it.

2453
01:29:50.400 --> 01:29:51.640
So it was right next to our house

2454
01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:52.480
and we didn't have to move.

2455
01:29:52.480 --> 01:29:54.640
We could just harvest the corn or the beans or whatever

2456
01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:57.200
and eat it and then we started just shipping it

2457
01:29:57.200 --> 01:29:58.040
to grocery stores.

2458
01:29:58.040 --> 01:29:59.640
Now you don't even have to grow it yourself.

2459
01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:01.480
You'll just come over here and you can buy it

2460
01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:03.160
and take it home and then we said,

2461
01:30:03.160 --> 01:30:05.600
forget it, you don't even need to drive to the grocery store anymore.

2462
01:30:05.600 --> 01:30:07.200
We'll just deliver it through Instacard

2463
01:30:07.200 --> 01:30:08.880
or grocery delivery or whatever.

2464
01:30:08.880 --> 01:30:11.040
And now we say, you don't even have to cook it

2465
01:30:11.040 --> 01:30:12.040
in your own house anymore.

2466
01:30:12.040 --> 01:30:13.680
We'll just, you can just order it on door dash.

2467
01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:14.560
You just tap with your thumb

2468
01:30:14.560 --> 01:30:16.320
and we'll bring it ready made to you right here

2469
01:30:16.320 --> 01:30:17.280
and you can just eat it.

2470
01:30:17.280 --> 01:30:19.880
It's all just one continual long arc

2471
01:30:19.880 --> 01:30:21.840
of making it easier and easier.

2472
01:30:21.840 --> 01:30:24.800
And the more that you can make your habits more convenient,

2473
01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:26.760
the more likely it is that you're gonna stick to it

2474
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:27.880
and fall through.

2475
01:30:28.880 --> 01:30:32.280
And then the fourth and final law is to make it satisfying.

2476
01:30:32.280 --> 01:30:34.080
The more satisfying your habits are,

2477
01:30:34.080 --> 01:30:36.000
the more likely you are to stick to them in the future

2478
01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:37.400
and return to them again.

2479
01:30:37.400 --> 01:30:40.480
The first three laws, make it obvious,

2480
01:30:40.480 --> 01:30:43.720
make it attractive and make it easy

2481
01:30:43.720 --> 01:30:48.520
are all about making your habit more likely to occur this time.

2482
01:30:49.680 --> 01:30:52.000
Make it satisfying is about increasing the odds

2483
01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:54.160
that you do it next time.

2484
01:30:54.160 --> 01:30:55.920
Because by the time you get to this step,

2485
01:30:55.920 --> 01:30:57.240
the habits already occurred, right?

2486
01:30:57.240 --> 01:30:59.720
It's already over now, but was it rewarding or not?

2487
01:30:59.720 --> 01:31:00.920
Was it beneficial or not?

2488
01:31:00.920 --> 01:31:02.560
Did it serve you in some way?

2489
01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:06.040
If it serves you, if you feel like it benefits you somehow,

2490
01:31:06.040 --> 01:31:08.960
that marks the experience in your brain and says,

2491
01:31:08.960 --> 01:31:10.280
hey, this was useful.

2492
01:31:10.280 --> 01:31:12.000
Let's come back to this next time.

2493
01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:13.920
Next time you're in a similar situation,

2494
01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:15.280
let's repeat this again.

2495
01:31:15.280 --> 01:31:19.200
And so make it satisfying the reward is kind of,

2496
01:31:19.200 --> 01:31:21.440
it closes the feedback loop of learning.

2497
01:31:21.440 --> 01:31:22.760
You know, it increases the odds

2498
01:31:22.760 --> 01:31:24.600
that you're gonna fall through on it.

2499
01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:26.840
I use that word learning intentionally.

2500
01:31:26.920 --> 01:31:28.880
We're talking about building habits,

2501
01:31:28.880 --> 01:31:31.120
but in a way what we're really talking about

2502
01:31:31.120 --> 01:31:32.720
is the process of learning.

2503
01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:35.360
It's the process of how your brain and body learn

2504
01:31:35.360 --> 01:31:37.320
what to do as you go through life.

2505
01:31:37.320 --> 01:31:39.000
You know, you go throughout life

2506
01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:40.600
and you experience different things

2507
01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:42.520
and you come across different strategies

2508
01:31:42.520 --> 01:31:43.640
and you try them out.

2509
01:31:43.640 --> 01:31:45.520
You know, at some point there's the first time

2510
01:31:45.520 --> 01:31:47.080
that you take a bite of a pancake

2511
01:31:47.080 --> 01:31:48.720
and then you're like, oh, that's kind of tasty.

2512
01:31:48.720 --> 01:31:50.160
Maybe I should take another bite.

2513
01:31:50.160 --> 01:31:51.880
And other times you try things

2514
01:31:51.880 --> 01:31:53.400
and you're like, I don't really like that much

2515
01:31:53.400 --> 01:31:55.280
or it didn't really do anything, it was kind of neutral.

2516
01:31:55.280 --> 01:31:56.120
And your brain's like, well,

2517
01:31:56.240 --> 01:31:57.960
maybe try something different next time.

2518
01:31:57.960 --> 01:31:59.640
So the behaviors that are rewarded,

2519
01:31:59.640 --> 01:32:00.960
the behaviors that are satisfying,

2520
01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:04.600
the behaviors that are enjoyable are likely to stick.

2521
01:32:04.600 --> 01:32:06.400
And I guess there's lots of different ways

2522
01:32:06.400 --> 01:32:07.400
one can make you rewarding.

2523
01:32:07.400 --> 01:32:08.800
I was thinking about our fitness group,

2524
01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:09.760
which we have on WhatsApp,

2525
01:32:09.760 --> 01:32:11.720
where it's called fitness blockchain

2526
01:32:11.720 --> 01:32:13.720
and every month one person is evicted.

2527
01:32:13.720 --> 01:32:14.880
Every day that you go to the gym,

2528
01:32:14.880 --> 01:32:16.360
you take a screenshot of your workout

2529
01:32:16.360 --> 01:32:17.200
and drop it in there

2530
01:32:17.200 --> 01:32:21.760
and then someone who's like a freelance data science person

2531
01:32:21.760 --> 01:32:23.360
just kind of compiles it all into a document

2532
01:32:23.360 --> 01:32:24.520
and sends screenshots every day

2533
01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:25.680
with our combined workouts.

2534
01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:26.760
The whole game is consistency.

2535
01:32:26.760 --> 01:32:27.880
So it doesn't matter how hard you worked,

2536
01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:29.480
it's just like, did you go?

2537
01:32:29.480 --> 01:32:30.720
And that has kind of made,

2538
01:32:30.720 --> 01:32:32.480
I don't know where that appears on this cycle,

2539
01:32:32.480 --> 01:32:34.040
but I think of it as like accountability.

2540
01:32:34.040 --> 01:32:36.040
It also makes it fun.

2541
01:32:36.040 --> 01:32:38.800
But where is that social packed element on this cycle?

2542
01:32:38.800 --> 01:32:40.840
Is that the part of the reward of it?

2543
01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:43.120
I think it influences all of the behaviors.

2544
01:32:43.120 --> 01:32:46.400
So the fact that you see other people working out is a cue,

2545
01:32:46.400 --> 01:32:48.600
so you might get a text of somebody else's screenshot

2546
01:32:48.600 --> 01:32:51.680
and they're like, oh, I need to get my workout in today.

2547
01:32:51.680 --> 01:32:52.520
I don't want to forget.

2548
01:32:52.520 --> 01:32:54.240
So that's a cue that triggers the behavior.

2549
01:32:54.280 --> 01:32:56.600
There's something attractive about being part of it

2550
01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:57.440
as a group.

2551
01:32:57.440 --> 01:32:59.720
You know that once you post your screenshot

2552
01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:01.080
that other people are gonna see it

2553
01:33:01.080 --> 01:33:02.960
and like you might get kind of rewarded for it

2554
01:33:02.960 --> 01:33:04.320
or like you did your thing.

2555
01:33:04.320 --> 01:33:06.760
So that's kind of exciting and feels motivating

2556
01:33:06.760 --> 01:33:09.680
that like motivates you to show up and do it.

2557
01:33:09.680 --> 01:33:11.880
Sometimes you may work out with somebody, right?

2558
01:33:11.880 --> 01:33:12.760
And so that like that,

2559
01:33:12.760 --> 01:33:15.440
there's something there that's improving the response.

2560
01:33:15.440 --> 01:33:17.040
It's more, it's more fun to do it together

2561
01:33:17.040 --> 01:33:18.600
but it also gets you moving.

2562
01:33:18.600 --> 01:33:20.360
And then finally, there's the reward

2563
01:33:20.360 --> 01:33:22.560
of sticking to the streak or being part of it

2564
01:33:22.560 --> 01:33:23.840
or not getting anything to do.

2565
01:33:23.920 --> 01:33:25.920
Actually, there's actually a big metal belt,

2566
01:33:25.920 --> 01:33:27.560
a physical belt, that's handed out a rear

2567
01:33:27.560 --> 01:33:28.720
but every week there's, you know,

2568
01:33:28.720 --> 01:33:30.960
every month there's a winner that gets the display picture

2569
01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:32.200
as their face and it's perfect.

2570
01:33:32.200 --> 01:33:33.040
I want the belt.

2571
01:33:33.040 --> 01:33:34.040
That's something cool.

2572
01:33:34.040 --> 01:33:34.880
That's awesome.

2573
01:33:34.880 --> 01:33:35.720
All right.

2574
01:33:35.720 --> 01:33:37.480
It's got my name engraved in it's like a wrestling belt.

2575
01:33:37.480 --> 01:33:38.320
That's awesome.

2576
01:33:38.320 --> 01:33:40.520
How does this work if you're trying to break a habit?

2577
01:33:40.520 --> 01:33:43.000
So for each of these,

2578
01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:46.240
there are many ways to do each of these things.

2579
01:33:46.240 --> 01:33:48.160
You know, there's many ways to make habits obvious.

2580
01:33:48.160 --> 01:33:50.480
There are many ways to make them attractive and so on.

2581
01:33:50.480 --> 01:33:53.320
And what I'm giving you is just kind of the overview

2582
01:33:53.360 --> 01:33:57.280
of how to build a good habit or how to install a new behavior.

2583
01:33:57.280 --> 01:33:59.560
If you want to break a bad habit,

2584
01:33:59.560 --> 01:34:01.760
then you just invert these four.

2585
01:34:01.760 --> 01:34:04.680
So rather than making it obvious, make it invisible.

2586
01:34:04.680 --> 01:34:05.920
Unsubscribe for me, males.

2587
01:34:05.920 --> 01:34:07.120
Don't keep junk food in the house.

2588
01:34:07.120 --> 01:34:08.800
Reduce exposure to the queue.

2589
01:34:08.800 --> 01:34:11.480
Rather than making it attractive, make it unattractive.

2590
01:34:11.480 --> 01:34:13.960
That's the hardest one we can talk about that in a second.

2591
01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:16.240
Rather than making it easy, make it difficult.

2592
01:34:16.240 --> 01:34:19.840
So increase friction, add steps between you and the behavior.

2593
01:34:19.840 --> 01:34:22.200
I find like, here's two examples for me.

2594
01:34:22.200 --> 01:34:24.440
I've tried this new thing where I keep my phone

2595
01:34:24.440 --> 01:34:26.480
in another room until lunch each day.

2596
01:34:26.480 --> 01:34:30.160
So usually it's like nine to 11 or so in the morning.

2597
01:34:30.160 --> 01:34:31.360
My phone is down the hall.

2598
01:34:31.360 --> 01:34:33.680
It's in a different room than I'm in my office.

2599
01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:36.800
And it's just a chance for me to work on my own priorities

2600
01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:39.400
rather than whatever's, you know, coming in through the phone.

2601
01:34:39.400 --> 01:34:40.520
I'm like everybody else.

2602
01:34:40.520 --> 01:34:41.680
If my phone is right next to me,

2603
01:34:41.680 --> 01:34:44.120
I will check it every three minutes just because it's there.

2604
01:34:44.120 --> 01:34:46.600
But if it's down the hall, it's only 30 seconds away,

2605
01:34:46.600 --> 01:34:48.200
but I never go get it.

2606
01:34:48.200 --> 01:34:49.480
And I always think that's interesting.

2607
01:34:49.480 --> 01:34:51.760
You know, it's like, did I want it or not?

2608
01:34:51.760 --> 01:34:54.240
In the one sense, I wanted it badly enough

2609
01:34:54.240 --> 01:34:55.640
that I would check it every three minutes

2610
01:34:55.640 --> 01:34:56.760
when it was right by me.

2611
01:34:56.760 --> 01:34:58.080
But I never wanted it so bad

2612
01:34:58.080 --> 01:35:00.520
that I go work 30 seconds to go get it.

2613
01:35:00.520 --> 01:35:02.320
And I found that a lot of habits are like that.

2614
01:35:02.320 --> 01:35:04.400
If you just introduce a little bit of friction,

2615
01:35:04.400 --> 01:35:07.600
they kind of curtail themselves to the desired degree.

2616
01:35:07.600 --> 01:35:08.920
So beer is another one.

2617
01:35:08.920 --> 01:35:11.040
I don't think this would work if you like,

2618
01:35:11.040 --> 01:35:12.680
and you know, actually have an addiction or something.

2619
01:35:12.680 --> 01:35:14.880
But I've noticed that if I get like a six pack of beer

2620
01:35:14.880 --> 01:35:16.400
and I put it in the front of the fridge

2621
01:35:16.400 --> 01:35:17.960
and I open it up and it's like right there

2622
01:35:17.960 --> 01:35:20.560
and I can see it, I'll have one at dinner just because it's there.

2623
01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:22.560
But if I put it like on the lowest shelf in the fridge

2624
01:35:22.560 --> 01:35:23.520
like all the way in the back,

2625
01:35:23.520 --> 01:35:25.720
I kind of got to bend down to even see it.

2626
01:35:25.720 --> 01:35:27.240
Sometimes I'll forget, I'll have it.

2627
01:35:27.240 --> 01:35:28.400
It'll be there for two weeks.

2628
01:35:28.400 --> 01:35:30.520
I won't even remember that it's in there.

2629
01:35:30.520 --> 01:35:33.400
And so I think that's all about like, you know,

2630
01:35:33.400 --> 01:35:35.360
inversion of the first law, making visible

2631
01:35:35.360 --> 01:35:37.640
and inversion of the third law make it difficult.

2632
01:35:37.640 --> 01:35:39.360
The less likely you are to see it,

2633
01:35:39.360 --> 01:35:40.960
the harder it is to do the more steps

2634
01:35:40.960 --> 01:35:43.000
that are involved, the less likely to do occur.

2635
01:35:43.000 --> 01:35:45.680
And then the final piece is the inversion of the last law,

2636
01:35:45.680 --> 01:35:47.640
which is rather than make it satisfying,

2637
01:35:47.640 --> 01:35:48.880
make it unsatisfying.

2638
01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:51.400
So layer on some kind of cost or consequence.

2639
01:35:51.400 --> 01:35:53.200
And I, in atomic habits, I call this

2640
01:35:53.200 --> 01:35:54.840
the cardinal rule of behavior change.

2641
01:35:54.840 --> 01:35:57.200
It's like so pervasive of a teacher,

2642
01:35:57.200 --> 01:36:01.280
which is behaviors that get immediately rewarded,

2643
01:36:01.280 --> 01:36:04.080
get repeated and behaviors that get immediately punished,

2644
01:36:04.080 --> 01:36:05.120
get avoided.

2645
01:36:05.120 --> 01:36:08.360
And so obvious, but you have to ask yourself,

2646
01:36:08.360 --> 01:36:10.520
do you have a good feeling when you do the thing

2647
01:36:10.520 --> 01:36:12.920
that you want to do, the habit that you want to build?

2648
01:36:12.920 --> 01:36:15.200
Are you getting immediately rewarded for that?

2649
01:36:15.200 --> 01:36:16.960
And if you have a habit you're trying to avoid,

2650
01:36:16.960 --> 01:36:17.800
what is the cost?

2651
01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:18.800
What is the consequence?

2652
01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:20.040
Is there something that, you know,

2653
01:36:20.040 --> 01:36:21.520
feels like a punishment there?

2654
01:36:21.520 --> 01:36:23.080
If so, then you're more likely to avoid it.

2655
01:36:23.080 --> 01:36:25.280
If not, it gets tricky.

2656
01:36:25.280 --> 01:36:26.440
It's hard, isn't it, with like,

2657
01:36:26.440 --> 01:36:27.680
there's cookies on the counter out there,

2658
01:36:27.680 --> 01:36:28.720
you might have noticed them as you walked in,

2659
01:36:28.720 --> 01:36:30.440
that you've got them on a little plate, loads of...

2660
01:36:30.440 --> 01:36:32.680
No, but I'm going to grab them all the way out.

2661
01:36:32.680 --> 01:36:33.920
But I was just thinking about that.

2662
01:36:33.920 --> 01:36:35.560
Like, if I have the cookie now,

2663
01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:38.160
I'm not going to get an immediate punishment.

2664
01:36:38.160 --> 01:36:40.560
The only sort of immediate punishment is a bit of guilt

2665
01:36:40.560 --> 01:36:43.480
that I might start to feel that I'm now one step further away

2666
01:36:43.480 --> 01:36:46.360
from the goals that I've shown myself in terms of fitness.

2667
01:36:46.400 --> 01:36:49.480
Is there any way to bring forward the punishment

2668
01:36:49.480 --> 01:36:52.760
in areas, not the punishment, but the downsides?

2669
01:36:52.760 --> 01:36:53.600
The downsides.

2670
01:36:53.600 --> 01:36:54.440
Yeah.

2671
01:36:54.440 --> 01:36:57.120
The cost of your good habits is as of the present.

2672
01:36:57.120 --> 01:36:59.600
The cost of your bad habits is in the future.

2673
01:36:59.600 --> 01:37:03.680
And so, for a lot of your, quote unquote, bad habits,

2674
01:37:03.680 --> 01:37:04.800
it feels good in the moment.

2675
01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:06.600
You know, like eating a donut feels great now,

2676
01:37:06.600 --> 01:37:08.120
playing the video game feels great now,

2677
01:37:08.120 --> 01:37:08.960
doing whatever.

2678
01:37:08.960 --> 01:37:10.880
Like, it's only later that you realize,

2679
01:37:10.880 --> 01:37:12.760
oh, there was a cost associated with this.

2680
01:37:12.760 --> 01:37:15.440
Even something like the classic bad habit of smoking,

2681
01:37:15.440 --> 01:37:17.800
maybe you get to stay with friends outside and socialize

2682
01:37:17.800 --> 01:37:19.320
or maybe you reduce stress in the moment

2683
01:37:19.320 --> 01:37:20.560
after a long day of work.

2684
01:37:20.560 --> 01:37:22.920
It's only five or 10 or 20 years later

2685
01:37:22.920 --> 01:37:24.520
that you have this consequence.

2686
01:37:24.520 --> 01:37:29.520
So, a lot of the game of building better habits

2687
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:33.560
is finding ways to pull the rewards of your good habits

2688
01:37:33.560 --> 01:37:34.520
into the present moment.

2689
01:37:34.520 --> 01:37:35.440
So you feel good now.

2690
01:37:35.440 --> 01:37:38.040
You don't have to wait three years for it to happen.

2691
01:37:38.040 --> 01:37:40.760
And pulling the consequences of your bad habits

2692
01:37:40.760 --> 01:37:42.880
into the present moment so that you feel a little bit

2693
01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:44.200
of the pain right now and you realize

2694
01:37:44.200 --> 01:37:46.240
this isn't actually serving me.

2695
01:37:46.240 --> 01:37:48.880
Which I guess is why they put the photos of people's lungs

2696
01:37:48.880 --> 01:37:49.920
on the cigarette packets.

2697
01:37:49.920 --> 01:37:52.200
That's yeah, like one of the things that's trying to do, right?

2698
01:37:52.200 --> 01:37:54.800
What about this habit school card over there?

2699
01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:57.280
Is that what your parents use with the swimming?

2700
01:37:57.280 --> 01:38:00.760
So the habit score card, just a simple like assessment.

2701
01:38:00.760 --> 01:38:03.800
The insight behind this practice is that

2702
01:38:03.800 --> 01:38:07.560
intentional behavior change starts with self-awareness, right?

2703
01:38:07.560 --> 01:38:10.960
So you will change your habits all the time

2704
01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:12.360
whether you think about them or not.

2705
01:38:12.360 --> 01:38:14.520
Your building habits, whether you focus on it

2706
01:38:14.520 --> 01:38:17.680
or whatever, like your brain and body is built for it.

2707
01:38:17.680 --> 01:38:19.400
Now, the more interesting question is,

2708
01:38:19.400 --> 01:38:21.600
can you design your behavior?

2709
01:38:21.600 --> 01:38:24.120
Can you shape your habits in the way that you want?

2710
01:38:24.120 --> 01:38:25.840
And that's where self-awareness comes in.

2711
01:38:25.840 --> 01:38:27.320
It's very hard to shape your habits

2712
01:38:27.320 --> 01:38:28.760
without being aware of them.

2713
01:38:28.760 --> 01:38:31.200
And so there have actually been some studies that have found

2714
01:38:31.200 --> 01:38:34.680
that just the act of becoming more aware of the behavior

2715
01:38:34.680 --> 01:38:35.720
will change it on its own.

2716
01:38:35.720 --> 01:38:37.720
For example, there was one study that looked at people

2717
01:38:37.720 --> 01:38:40.000
who journaled about their, they created food journals

2718
01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:41.680
for what they were eating.

2719
01:38:41.720 --> 01:38:44.280
No tracking of anything, they were not on a diet,

2720
01:38:44.280 --> 01:38:45.800
they're not trying to eat certain way,

2721
01:38:45.800 --> 01:38:47.480
they don't care about how many calories you have,

2722
01:38:47.480 --> 01:38:48.920
there's no tracking or anything.

2723
01:38:48.920 --> 01:38:51.960
All they did was simply write down what they ate each day.

2724
01:38:51.960 --> 01:38:54.000
And just the act of journaling about it

2725
01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:58.000
changed what people ate and reduced the number of calories

2726
01:38:58.000 --> 01:38:59.000
that they had and so on,

2727
01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:02.120
just because they were aware of what was happening.

2728
01:39:02.120 --> 01:39:05.360
And so this is true for most habits,

2729
01:39:05.360 --> 01:39:07.080
which is once you start to notice them,

2730
01:39:07.080 --> 01:39:09.000
then you start to notice ways that you can improve them

2731
01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:10.320
or ways that you could refine them

2732
01:39:10.440 --> 01:39:12.120
or ways that maybe you want to do things differently.

2733
01:39:12.120 --> 01:39:14.080
You're not operating as on autopilot

2734
01:39:14.080 --> 01:39:15.440
in quite the same way.

2735
01:39:15.440 --> 01:39:17.680
So the habit score card is just a simple way to do this.

2736
01:39:17.680 --> 01:39:18.800
It's very, it's very simple.

2737
01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:21.120
You just write down all the habits that you're doing each day.

2738
01:39:21.120 --> 01:39:23.440
So you can start, usually there's like a package

2739
01:39:23.440 --> 01:39:25.560
of behaviors in the beginning and maybe around lunch

2740
01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:27.320
and then like a power down routine at the end of the day,

2741
01:39:27.320 --> 01:39:30.000
but it could be something like wake up,

2742
01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:33.200
drink a glass of water, take a shower, check my phone,

2743
01:39:33.200 --> 01:39:35.280
get dressed, whatever, like you just go through

2744
01:39:35.280 --> 01:39:37.120
the list of what your normal day looks like.

2745
01:39:37.120 --> 01:39:39.440
And then once you have the behaviors written down,

2746
01:39:39.440 --> 01:39:40.720
you give them a score.

2747
01:39:40.720 --> 01:39:43.000
And the score is just, if it's a good habit

2748
01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:44.520
or a habit that you like that's contributing

2749
01:39:44.520 --> 01:39:46.080
to your life, you put a plus sign.

2750
01:39:46.080 --> 01:39:48.560
If it's a habit that you feel like you want to get rid of,

2751
01:39:48.560 --> 01:39:50.840
like maybe say, I wake up and then I scroll

2752
01:39:50.840 --> 01:39:52.600
on my phone for 10 minutes before I get out of bed.

2753
01:39:52.600 --> 01:39:54.240
You're like, well, do I really want to be doing that?

2754
01:39:54.240 --> 01:39:55.800
Maybe not, I'll give out a minus sign.

2755
01:39:55.800 --> 01:39:57.760
And then some stuff's just neutral, you know,

2756
01:39:57.760 --> 01:39:59.000
like get dressed, you know,

2757
01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:01.120
sure, whatever, just put an equal sign.

2758
01:40:01.120 --> 01:40:04.600
And the idea is not to judge yourself for it.

2759
01:40:04.600 --> 01:40:06.080
It's more like sometimes I tell people,

2760
01:40:06.080 --> 01:40:08.000
it's almost like imagine when you like go to the zoo

2761
01:40:08.080 --> 01:40:09.680
and you like, you know, look at the lions and you're like,

2762
01:40:09.680 --> 01:40:11.520
oh, wow, how interesting that they would do that.

2763
01:40:11.520 --> 01:40:12.720
You kind of like do that with yourself.

2764
01:40:12.720 --> 01:40:13.840
And you're like, oh, how interesting

2765
01:40:13.840 --> 01:40:14.840
that I spend my time that way.

2766
01:40:14.840 --> 01:40:16.440
You know, you're not like trying to judge yourself

2767
01:40:16.440 --> 01:40:16.960
or analyze it.

2768
01:40:16.960 --> 01:40:20.520
It's just, let me see what I'm actually spending my time on.

2769
01:40:20.520 --> 01:40:22.560
And then once you have that list,

2770
01:40:22.560 --> 01:40:24.680
I think that, and this is like later in the book,

2771
01:40:24.680 --> 01:40:27.080
but there's, it becomes very useful

2772
01:40:27.080 --> 01:40:30.240
for building habit stacks, for layering your new habits

2773
01:40:30.240 --> 01:40:32.320
on top of the things that you're already doing.

2774
01:40:32.320 --> 01:40:34.280
And so some of its self-awareness,

2775
01:40:34.280 --> 01:40:36.880
some of it is priming for habit stacking.

2776
01:40:36.920 --> 01:40:38.240
Habit stacking.

2777
01:40:38.240 --> 01:40:39.080
Yeah.

2778
01:40:39.080 --> 01:40:40.480
What is a habit stacking?

2779
01:40:40.480 --> 01:40:41.320
Look at this.

2780
01:40:41.320 --> 01:40:43.240
Like, I like these props.

2781
01:40:43.240 --> 01:40:44.240
It's great.

2782
01:40:44.240 --> 01:40:47.280
All right, so first, let me, let me just unpack the idea.

2783
01:40:47.280 --> 01:40:49.800
Habit stacking is this concept that came from Stanford

2784
01:40:49.800 --> 01:40:51.560
professors named BJFog.

2785
01:40:51.560 --> 01:40:54.160
And his insight, which I think is great,

2786
01:40:54.160 --> 01:40:57.120
is that it's easier to build a new habit

2787
01:40:57.120 --> 01:41:01.240
if you layer it or stack it on top of an old habit,

2788
01:41:01.240 --> 01:41:03.120
a habit you're already doing.

2789
01:41:03.120 --> 01:41:05.160
He calls it the tiny habits recipe, I think.

2790
01:41:05.160 --> 01:41:09.440
But the insight is just that we all have

2791
01:41:09.440 --> 01:41:11.080
habits that we're performing each day.

2792
01:41:11.080 --> 01:41:12.960
And those can become anchors.

2793
01:41:12.960 --> 01:41:15.200
They can become cues that prompt

2794
01:41:15.200 --> 01:41:17.280
the new behaviors that we're gonna perform.

2795
01:41:17.280 --> 01:41:18.720
So let's say that your current habit

2796
01:41:18.720 --> 01:41:20.120
is you make cup of coffee, right?

2797
01:41:20.120 --> 01:41:21.280
So you're already doing this,

2798
01:41:21.280 --> 01:41:23.560
you're gonna start each day, you're gonna make cup of coffee.

2799
01:41:23.560 --> 01:41:25.880
And the new habit that you want to build

2800
01:41:25.880 --> 01:41:27.760
is you wanna start meditating.

2801
01:41:27.760 --> 01:41:28.960
So then you could say, all right,

2802
01:41:28.960 --> 01:41:30.840
after I make my morning cup of coffee,

2803
01:41:30.840 --> 01:41:32.560
I will meditate for 60 seconds.

2804
01:41:32.560 --> 01:41:35.200
So this is just like a basic habit stack, right?

2805
01:41:35.200 --> 01:41:38.480
So you start with coffee and then you meditate after.

2806
01:41:38.480 --> 01:41:39.480
Now once you get good at this,

2807
01:41:39.480 --> 01:41:40.840
you can start to chain them together.

2808
01:41:40.840 --> 01:41:43.040
So for example, you could say,

2809
01:41:43.040 --> 01:41:44.960
after I make my morning cup of coffee,

2810
01:41:44.960 --> 01:41:47.560
I will meditate for 60 seconds

2811
01:41:47.560 --> 01:41:49.840
and then I will write my to-do list for the day.

2812
01:41:49.840 --> 01:41:51.480
After I write my to-do list for the day,

2813
01:41:51.480 --> 01:41:53.840
I will prioritize them and start working on,

2814
01:41:53.840 --> 01:41:55.280
you know, my first task or whatever.

2815
01:41:55.280 --> 01:41:56.640
And now you have this little stack

2816
01:41:56.640 --> 01:41:59.120
that you do the same way each morning, each time.

2817
01:41:59.120 --> 01:42:01.320
And it just is a way to like build simple momentum

2818
01:42:01.320 --> 01:42:02.400
and get you in.

2819
01:42:02.960 --> 01:42:05.520
I've got readers who made like all kinds of habit stacks,

2820
01:42:05.520 --> 01:42:08.680
one of the funny ones that I remember is one guy,

2821
01:42:08.680 --> 01:42:10.240
he was really into working out

2822
01:42:10.240 --> 01:42:12.320
and he was always drinking protein shakes,

2823
01:42:12.320 --> 01:42:14.760
but his finances were kind of a mess.

2824
01:42:14.760 --> 01:42:16.960
And so anytime that he would make a protein shake,

2825
01:42:16.960 --> 01:42:18.360
he would like check his finances

2826
01:42:18.360 --> 01:42:19.560
and check his budget for the day.

2827
01:42:19.560 --> 01:42:21.720
He would like, when I make a protein shake,

2828
01:42:21.720 --> 01:42:22.920
I fill out my daily budget.

2829
01:42:22.920 --> 01:42:25.360
That was like his habit stack.

2830
01:42:25.360 --> 01:42:26.840
But you can do it for anything, right?

2831
01:42:26.840 --> 01:42:30.960
And the idea is that you want to find a good place

2832
01:42:30.960 --> 01:42:33.240
for this new habit to live.

2833
01:42:33.240 --> 01:42:34.960
You know, sometimes, like let's say,

2834
01:42:34.960 --> 01:42:36.600
let's take the meditation example.

2835
01:42:37.960 --> 01:42:41.280
As a general rule, as a very broad stroke rule,

2836
01:42:41.280 --> 01:42:43.480
it tends to be better to do habits earlier in the day

2837
01:42:43.480 --> 01:42:46.280
rather than later because the later it gets in the day,

2838
01:42:46.280 --> 01:42:49.680
the less your day is under your control, right?

2839
01:42:49.680 --> 01:42:50.840
Like more things interrupt.

2840
01:42:50.840 --> 01:42:52.960
There's just, you know, you run lower on time,

2841
01:42:52.960 --> 01:42:54.560
lower on energy and so on.

2842
01:42:54.560 --> 01:42:56.920
So yeah, I like, in general, I like the idea

2843
01:42:56.920 --> 01:42:58.680
of maybe doing meditation in the morning.

2844
01:42:58.680 --> 01:43:00.680
So you make your cup of coffee and then you meditate.

2845
01:43:00.680 --> 01:43:03.280
But if you have like three little toddlers

2846
01:43:03.280 --> 01:43:04.040
that you're chasing around,

2847
01:43:04.040 --> 01:43:05.520
you're trying to get pants on your kids,

2848
01:43:05.520 --> 01:43:07.440
then maybe that's not a good time to meditate, right?

2849
01:43:07.440 --> 01:43:10.040
It's not a good space for that habit to live.

2850
01:43:10.040 --> 01:43:13.120
So I think once you've done that habit score card

2851
01:43:13.120 --> 01:43:16.000
and you have like all of your normal habits laid out there,

2852
01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:17.600
you can start to think about the new habit

2853
01:43:17.600 --> 01:43:19.360
that you want to build and look at that list

2854
01:43:19.360 --> 01:43:21.840
and then say, okay, what's the appropriate place to insert?

2855
01:43:21.840 --> 01:43:24.640
This new habit, where should that new habit stack live?

2856
01:43:24.640 --> 01:43:28.240
What's a good trigger for that new behavior to occur?

2857
01:43:28.240 --> 01:43:29.760
And so you create these little stacks

2858
01:43:29.760 --> 01:43:30.960
and then it just eventually,

2859
01:43:30.960 --> 01:43:31.800
it doesn't take that long,

2860
01:43:31.800 --> 01:43:33.320
but eventually you get used to just doing

2861
01:43:33.320 --> 01:43:34.800
in the same order each time.

2862
01:43:34.800 --> 01:43:36.400
You know, like I have one woman who she's like,

2863
01:43:36.400 --> 01:43:38.960
every day I walk into my office, I hang up my purse,

2864
01:43:38.960 --> 01:43:41.080
I hang up my jacket, I go fill up my water bottle,

2865
01:43:41.080 --> 01:43:43.000
I sit down at the desk and hang in to the first email

2866
01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:44.600
and that's like, she just does that sequence

2867
01:43:44.600 --> 01:43:45.720
every time she comes in.

2868
01:43:45.720 --> 01:43:47.040
I have one I think that's kind of related,

2869
01:43:47.040 --> 01:43:48.800
which is, and this sounds very strange to people,

2870
01:43:48.800 --> 01:43:51.800
but I think I'm weird, but whatever is,

2871
01:43:51.800 --> 01:43:53.480
I wanted to learn how to meditate,

2872
01:43:53.480 --> 01:43:57.160
but in my day, the way that my day was currently constructed,

2873
01:43:57.160 --> 01:43:59.760
there was no great opportunity where I'm alone

2874
01:43:59.760 --> 01:44:03.000
for like 10 to 20 minutes, and I'm uninterrupted,

2875
01:44:03.000 --> 01:44:04.920
and I'm in that position,

2876
01:44:04.920 --> 01:44:06.040
and so what I started doing

2877
01:44:06.040 --> 01:44:08.440
is I started meditating in the shower.

2878
01:44:08.440 --> 01:44:10.040
I'm there anyway, getting clean.

2879
01:44:10.040 --> 01:44:11.760
So it's great.

2880
01:44:11.760 --> 01:44:13.280
It's private, no longer showers.

2881
01:44:13.280 --> 01:44:14.840
Yeah, a lot of showers.

2882
01:44:14.840 --> 01:44:17.200
My girlfriend's like, what the fuck is going on in there?

2883
01:44:17.200 --> 01:44:19.560
I'm not being there, sat on the floor.

2884
01:44:19.560 --> 01:44:20.920
But now I started just meditating in the shower

2885
01:44:20.920 --> 01:44:24.160
and it was, it was in the morning alone,

2886
01:44:24.160 --> 01:44:25.240
I'm gonna do it anyway.

2887
01:44:26.160 --> 01:44:27.760
So that really helped for me,

2888
01:44:27.760 --> 01:44:29.200
and then when that started to stick,

2889
01:44:29.200 --> 01:44:30.400
and I started to get a bit of progress

2890
01:44:30.400 --> 01:44:32.960
and see the benefits I can move out of the shower per se.

2891
01:44:32.960 --> 01:44:33.800
That's great.

2892
01:44:33.800 --> 01:44:36.280
You're reminding me of a woman who came up to me

2893
01:44:36.280 --> 01:44:39.040
after a talk one time and told me that she,

2894
01:44:39.040 --> 01:44:41.160
when she brushes, she wanted to work on her balance,

2895
01:44:41.160 --> 01:44:42.960
she was getting orders to get into her 60s,

2896
01:44:42.960 --> 01:44:43.960
and she said,

2897
01:44:45.400 --> 01:44:47.280
any, each day when I brush my teeth,

2898
01:44:47.280 --> 01:44:49.200
I brush on one leg, and I do like 10,

2899
01:44:49.200 --> 01:44:51.360
like little kind of half squats on that leg,

2900
01:44:51.360 --> 01:44:52.680
and then I switch to the other leg,

2901
01:44:52.680 --> 01:44:53.560
and I do 10 more on that,

2902
01:44:53.600 --> 01:44:54.520
and she was like,

2903
01:44:54.520 --> 01:44:56.360
I'm my balance is better, my legs are stronger,

2904
01:44:56.360 --> 01:44:57.640
and my teeth are very clean.

2905
01:44:57.640 --> 01:45:00.400
They take it, takes a while, but yeah.

2906
01:45:00.400 --> 01:45:02.320
You can pair it up in all kinds of ways.

2907
01:45:02.320 --> 01:45:04.240
On that point of doing things in the morning

2908
01:45:04.240 --> 01:45:06.800
and generally having less energy later in the day,

2909
01:45:06.800 --> 01:45:11.320
do you think much about how to manage your own energy?

2910
01:45:11.320 --> 01:45:14.480
I spoke to Dr. Lisa Feldman, who's a neuroscientist,

2911
01:45:14.480 --> 01:45:17.560
who came up with this concept of like the body budget

2912
01:45:17.560 --> 01:45:19.360
that we have this finite amount of energy,

2913
01:45:19.360 --> 01:45:21.120
and since then it's really had a big impact on me,

2914
01:45:21.120 --> 01:45:23.640
because I start in so many ways that we've talked about,

2915
01:45:23.640 --> 01:45:27.000
one of which is I try to not to try and take on too much,

2916
01:45:27.000 --> 01:45:29.320
because if in a well-term energy on a daily basis

2917
01:45:29.320 --> 01:45:32.640
is finite, I don't want to get to end of my body budget,

2918
01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:34.200
but also the order of things,

2919
01:45:34.200 --> 01:45:37.120
like do I put my most important tasks today

2920
01:45:37.120 --> 01:45:39.200
at the beginning of the day, et cetera, et cetera?

2921
01:45:39.200 --> 01:45:41.880
I would layer, so yes, I do think about this a little bit,

2922
01:45:41.880 --> 01:45:43.880
and I've heard this like you want energy management,

2923
01:45:43.880 --> 01:45:46.000
not time management, you know, construct.

2924
01:45:46.000 --> 01:45:48.400
The other thing that I would add to it that I don't know

2925
01:45:48.400 --> 01:45:50.880
that I've ever heard any of my talk about is control.

2926
01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:54.640
So the standard thing that everybody says is,

2927
01:45:54.640 --> 01:45:58.160
oh, we all only have 24 hours in a day, which obviously is true,

2928
01:45:58.160 --> 01:46:01.880
but if you were to break that into like 24 one hour chunks

2929
01:46:01.880 --> 01:46:04.160
and just look at your day laid out that way,

2930
01:46:04.160 --> 01:46:06.440
you have different levels of control

2931
01:46:06.440 --> 01:46:09.040
over certain one hour chunks than others.

2932
01:46:09.040 --> 01:46:11.080
So for example, I said a minute ago,

2933
01:46:11.080 --> 01:46:12.040
like if you have a bunch of kids

2934
01:46:12.040 --> 01:46:14.200
and you're getting them dressed from like 7 to 8 a.m.,

2935
01:46:14.200 --> 01:46:16.440
that hour isn't that much under your control,

2936
01:46:16.440 --> 01:46:17.640
it's not a good time to meditate,

2937
01:46:17.640 --> 01:46:18.680
it's not a good time to work out,

2938
01:46:18.800 --> 01:46:20.560
there's other responsibilities that tend to happen

2939
01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:21.480
in that hour.

2940
01:46:21.480 --> 01:46:23.560
And so I think that's an interesting thing too,

2941
01:46:23.560 --> 01:46:25.360
is to map your day out and look at this and say,

2942
01:46:25.360 --> 01:46:29.440
all right, which hours is my energy the best,

2943
01:46:29.440 --> 01:46:32.320
and which hours are most under my control?

2944
01:46:32.320 --> 01:46:35.320
And then you can start to see like where you're ultimately

2945
01:46:35.320 --> 01:46:38.400
what I think you're getting to is what are the good hours

2946
01:46:38.400 --> 01:46:40.360
for me, you know, like where do those live

2947
01:46:40.360 --> 01:46:41.480
throughout the day?

2948
01:46:41.480 --> 01:46:45.200
And then the next step is to ask what is getting my best hours

2949
01:46:45.200 --> 01:46:47.000
and what's getting my leftovers?

2950
01:46:47.000 --> 01:46:49.320
And I have had a couple different times

2951
01:46:49.320 --> 01:46:51.640
where I've looked at things and said,

2952
01:46:51.640 --> 01:46:52.800
I say this is important to me,

2953
01:46:52.800 --> 01:46:55.160
but really it's only getting my leftover hours.

2954
01:46:55.160 --> 01:46:56.160
And so then you're like, okay,

2955
01:46:56.160 --> 01:46:57.560
something might need to change.

2956
01:46:57.560 --> 01:46:59.120
So I think about all of that,

2957
01:46:59.120 --> 01:47:02.040
I think about where's, how much time do I have in general?

2958
01:47:02.040 --> 01:47:04.200
Where are the pockets where I have the most energy

2959
01:47:04.200 --> 01:47:05.440
or the best energy?

2960
01:47:05.440 --> 01:47:07.040
And then also where are the pockets

2961
01:47:07.040 --> 01:47:08.240
where I have the most control?

2962
01:47:08.240 --> 01:47:10.440
And then you try to figure out how to slot stuff in.

2963
01:47:10.440 --> 01:47:12.600
And theoretically, you'd wanna put the new,

2964
01:47:12.600 --> 01:47:14.520
hard habits to try and form in areas

2965
01:47:14.520 --> 01:47:15.800
where you have the highest degree of control

2966
01:47:15.800 --> 01:47:17.680
versus like 11 PM at night.

2967
01:47:17.680 --> 01:47:20.200
Right, yeah, I think in general, that's right.

2968
01:47:20.200 --> 01:47:22.600
It's so tricky when you have multiple things

2969
01:47:22.600 --> 01:47:23.840
that really matter to you.

2970
01:47:23.840 --> 01:47:25.480
You know, it's like, all right,

2971
01:47:25.480 --> 01:47:27.680
you're choosing between family, you're choosing between work,

2972
01:47:27.680 --> 01:47:29.200
you're choosing between personal pursuits

2973
01:47:29.200 --> 01:47:30.520
and these new habits you're trying to build,

2974
01:47:30.520 --> 01:47:32.960
like everything's gotta kind of work together.

2975
01:47:32.960 --> 01:47:35.480
And so it's a balance of shaping all of that.

2976
01:47:37.160 --> 01:47:40.480
So many of us are pursuing passive forms of income

2977
01:47:40.480 --> 01:47:41.720
and to build side businesses

2978
01:47:41.720 --> 01:47:43.680
in order to help us cover our bills.

2979
01:47:43.680 --> 01:47:46.400
And that opportunity is here with our sponsor, Stan,

2980
01:47:46.400 --> 01:47:48.320
a business that I co-own.

2981
01:47:48.320 --> 01:47:51.240
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2982
01:47:51.240 --> 01:47:53.360
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2983
01:47:53.360 --> 01:47:55.280
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2984
01:47:55.280 --> 01:47:57.360
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2985
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2986
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2987
01:48:01.840 --> 01:48:03.880
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2988
01:48:03.880 --> 01:48:06.320
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2989
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2990
01:48:08.640 --> 01:48:10.480
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2991
01:48:10.480 --> 01:48:13.120
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2992
01:48:13.120 --> 01:48:14.560
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2993
01:48:14.560 --> 01:48:16.280
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2994
01:48:16.280 --> 01:48:18.760
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2996
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2997
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2998
01:48:26.720 --> 01:48:28.320
Did I ever tell you about the data breach

2999
01:48:28.320 --> 01:48:29.960
that we had at my previous company?

3000
01:48:29.960 --> 01:48:31.800
Yeah, I remember hearing about that.

3001
01:48:31.800 --> 01:48:33.640
Which was a total nightmare.

3002
01:48:33.640 --> 01:48:35.680
So I'm glad that we now use one password.

3003
01:48:35.680 --> 01:48:36.960
Well, actually it's a Steve.

3004
01:48:36.960 --> 01:48:39.040
It's called one password

3005
01:48:39.040 --> 01:48:40.640
and they're the sponsor of the podcast now.

3006
01:48:40.640 --> 01:48:42.720
And they have this feature called enterprise password manager,

3007
01:48:42.720 --> 01:48:44.280
which means that if any of our passwords

3008
01:48:44.280 --> 01:48:46.920
across the team are compromised or leaked,

3009
01:48:46.920 --> 01:48:48.160
then it notifies us.

3010
01:48:48.160 --> 01:48:49.560
And obviously if that were to be the case,

3011
01:48:49.560 --> 01:48:51.440
we're at huge risk across the entire team.

3012
01:48:51.440 --> 01:48:52.880
Through one password, EPM,

3013
01:48:52.880 --> 01:48:55.520
you can also store all of your sensitive information.

3014
01:48:55.520 --> 01:48:58.560
And it's helping us to move closer towards past keys,

3015
01:48:58.560 --> 01:49:00.840
which means eventually everybody will be able to log in

3016
01:49:00.840 --> 01:49:02.160
to pretty much everything

3017
01:49:02.160 --> 01:49:03.640
without ever having to put a password in.

3018
01:49:03.640 --> 01:49:05.000
Sounds like a good addition.

3019
01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:07.600
Yeah, I think it's like the single most impactful security

3020
01:49:07.600 --> 01:49:08.600
addition you can make to your team,

3021
01:49:08.600 --> 01:49:10.640
especially if your team has tons of passwords

3022
01:49:10.640 --> 01:49:13.200
that are all like hidden in Excel files and stuff.

3023
01:49:13.200 --> 01:49:15.320
To my listeners, if you want to secure your business,

3024
01:49:15.320 --> 01:49:18.560
head to onepassword.com slash D-O-A-C.

3025
01:49:18.560 --> 01:49:19.920
One password is a game changer.

3026
01:49:19.920 --> 01:49:22.320
It's the future that I always wished would be the case

3027
01:49:22.320 --> 01:49:25.440
as someone that has 20, 30 different passwords

3028
01:49:25.440 --> 01:49:28.120
for 20, 30 different applications.

3029
01:49:28.120 --> 01:49:30.280
The first time we made our little fitness group on WhatsApp,

3030
01:49:30.280 --> 01:49:32.560
it was about how many calories you could burn.

3031
01:49:32.560 --> 01:49:34.400
And that was what awarded you the points

3032
01:49:34.400 --> 01:49:35.480
and won you the competition.

3033
01:49:35.480 --> 01:49:37.160
Didn't last long.

3034
01:49:37.160 --> 01:49:38.200
Didn't last long.

3035
01:49:38.200 --> 01:49:41.240
For a number of reasons, kind of toxic, unfair,

3036
01:49:41.240 --> 01:49:43.160
because I weigh more than anyone in the group,

3037
01:49:43.160 --> 01:49:45.080
so I burn more calories just by standing up.

3038
01:49:45.080 --> 01:49:47.480
And then it moved to this idea of consistency.

3039
01:49:47.480 --> 01:49:49.440
How do you think about what is better?

3040
01:49:49.440 --> 01:49:51.000
Is it better to be consistent or is it better

3041
01:49:51.000 --> 01:49:51.960
to be something else?

3042
01:49:53.160 --> 01:49:56.000
I feel like there's the story that people tell themselves a lot,

3043
01:49:56.000 --> 01:49:58.040
which is they want to do the big impressive thing.

3044
01:49:58.040 --> 01:50:01.120
Like you want to run a marathon,

3045
01:50:01.120 --> 01:50:03.640
you want to do a week-long silent meditation retreat,

3046
01:50:03.640 --> 01:50:06.040
you want to write the best-selling book, whatever.

3047
01:50:06.040 --> 01:50:08.160
And I think about it as this balance

3048
01:50:08.160 --> 01:50:10.560
between consistency and intensity.

3049
01:50:10.560 --> 01:50:14.640
So intensity is a good story.

3050
01:50:14.640 --> 01:50:15.760
I ran the marathon.

3051
01:50:15.760 --> 01:50:17.560
I did the silent meditation retreat.

3052
01:50:17.560 --> 01:50:19.960
Consistency actually makes progress.

3053
01:50:19.960 --> 01:50:21.680
I meditate for five minutes each day.

3054
01:50:21.680 --> 01:50:24.280
I run three days a week or whatever.

3055
01:50:24.280 --> 01:50:28.200
And so people need consistency more than they need intensity.

3056
01:50:28.200 --> 01:50:31.880
And in fact, what I would say is consistency

3057
01:50:31.920 --> 01:50:34.000
enlarges ability.

3058
01:50:34.000 --> 01:50:36.240
Consistency enlarges ability.

3059
01:50:36.240 --> 01:50:38.480
It's the act of showing up consistently

3060
01:50:38.480 --> 01:50:41.600
that builds your capacity to do something,

3061
01:50:41.600 --> 01:50:45.400
that fosters the skill development and growth that you want.

3062
01:50:45.400 --> 01:50:48.640
And so showing up, even if it's just in a small way,

3063
01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:51.560
is the way that you actually create the opportunity

3064
01:50:51.560 --> 01:50:54.720
to do something more intense or more impressive down the line.

3065
01:50:56.040 --> 01:51:00.720
I also think that there's this deep important lesson

3066
01:51:00.720 --> 01:51:03.400
that comes from appreciating consistency

3067
01:51:03.400 --> 01:51:05.400
and what's required there.

3068
01:51:05.400 --> 01:51:09.240
Consistency is often adaptability.

3069
01:51:09.240 --> 01:51:10.480
It's flexibility.

3070
01:51:10.480 --> 01:51:12.760
There's this story about mental toughness

3071
01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:17.360
and being disciplined person that we tell ourselves

3072
01:51:17.360 --> 01:51:20.200
that something like, I grind to make sure this happens,

3073
01:51:20.200 --> 01:51:23.600
I will make it happen no matter what the circumstances,

3074
01:51:23.600 --> 01:51:26.120
like that the mentally tough person pushes through

3075
01:51:26.120 --> 01:51:27.960
regardless of what they face.

3076
01:51:27.960 --> 01:51:30.200
But I think that in real life, a lot of the time

3077
01:51:30.200 --> 01:51:32.080
consistency is actually being flexible.

3078
01:51:32.080 --> 01:51:33.320
It's being adaptable.

3079
01:51:33.320 --> 01:51:35.280
If you don't have enough energy, you do the easier version.

3080
01:51:35.280 --> 01:51:37.000
If you don't have time, you do the short version.

3081
01:51:37.000 --> 01:51:39.800
You find a way to not throw up a zero that day.

3082
01:51:39.800 --> 01:51:42.240
You find a way to show up even if it's not ideal.

3083
01:51:42.240 --> 01:51:45.000
And that is actually being very mentally tough.

3084
01:51:45.000 --> 01:51:49.800
And so the adaptable person is the one that,

3085
01:51:49.800 --> 01:51:50.480
what's that line?

3086
01:51:50.480 --> 01:51:54.600
It's when the storm came, the oak tree fought it and broke,

3087
01:51:54.600 --> 01:51:56.440
but the willow Benton survived.

3088
01:51:56.440 --> 01:51:59.760
And so it's like you need a way to manage the storms of life

3089
01:51:59.760 --> 01:52:02.280
and bend with them while still showing up.

3090
01:52:02.280 --> 01:52:06.840
If you purely fight against it, you think that being tough,

3091
01:52:06.840 --> 01:52:08.360
that being mentally tough is like,

3092
01:52:08.360 --> 01:52:10.120
I'm gonna make sure this happens,

3093
01:52:10.120 --> 01:52:13.000
but it actually makes you somewhat brittle.

3094
01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:14.560
You need it to be a certain way.

3095
01:52:14.560 --> 01:52:18.080
And when you need life to be a certain way to succeed,

3096
01:52:18.080 --> 01:52:21.600
you become held hostage by the situation.

3097
01:52:21.600 --> 01:52:23.400
You need it to be just like that.

3098
01:52:23.400 --> 01:52:26.040
But if in fact you can be adaptable and you can be flexible,

3099
01:52:26.040 --> 01:52:28.480
now you're actually more resilient.

3100
01:52:28.480 --> 01:52:30.760
And so I think there's a balance to strike there.

3101
01:52:30.760 --> 01:52:34.480
And it feeds into the consistency that will ultimately

3102
01:52:34.480 --> 01:52:35.600
enlarge your ability.

3103
01:52:35.600 --> 01:52:38.240
I think this is such an important point that I don't often

3104
01:52:38.240 --> 01:52:39.240
hear people talk about.

3105
01:52:39.240 --> 01:52:40.560
It reminds me of my friend.

3106
01:52:40.560 --> 01:52:42.440
My friend, one of my best friends,

3107
01:52:42.440 --> 01:52:45.920
he has a tendency to feel like he's cracked fitness.

3108
01:52:45.920 --> 01:52:47.520
And what tends to happen is he'll work out

3109
01:52:47.520 --> 01:52:49.120
and go to the gym for like three months

3110
01:52:49.120 --> 01:52:51.880
and he'll then announce that he's finally cracked it,

3111
01:52:51.880 --> 01:52:53.800
like the consistency of the motivation.

3112
01:52:53.800 --> 01:52:55.240
And the minute he does that,

3113
01:52:55.240 --> 01:52:57.160
is like 30 days before he falls off again.

3114
01:52:57.200 --> 01:52:58.960
Because I think he gets complacent.

3115
01:52:58.960 --> 01:53:00.240
Life is going to happen.

3116
01:53:00.240 --> 01:53:01.560
And I remember saying to him one year,

3117
01:53:01.560 --> 01:53:03.440
I mean, I've known him for 15 years now,

3118
01:53:03.440 --> 01:53:05.800
I was like, the thing I've come to learn about

3119
01:53:05.800 --> 01:53:07.480
the gym and fitness is that you never crack it.

3120
01:53:07.480 --> 01:53:10.480
And actually the mindset that every single day

3121
01:53:10.480 --> 01:53:13.640
I could fall off and that life happens,

3122
01:53:13.640 --> 01:53:15.440
has helped me be consistent.

3123
01:53:15.440 --> 01:53:18.960
Whereas a version of me in 2017 set this ridiculous goal,

3124
01:53:18.960 --> 01:53:19.960
which was I was going to go to the gym

3125
01:53:19.960 --> 01:53:21.800
every single day without fail.

3126
01:53:21.800 --> 01:53:23.920
And then five months in where life happened

3127
01:53:23.920 --> 01:53:25.600
and I missed a day,

3128
01:53:25.600 --> 01:53:28.280
my motivation was gone and I fell off.

3129
01:53:28.280 --> 01:53:29.880
You see this a lot with top performers

3130
01:53:29.880 --> 01:53:31.360
in many different domains,

3131
01:53:31.360 --> 01:53:33.720
which is it's not that they don't make mistakes

3132
01:53:33.720 --> 01:53:34.800
or they don't slip up.

3133
01:53:34.800 --> 01:53:36.240
Everybody slips up,

3134
01:53:36.240 --> 01:53:38.800
but they tend to get back on track quickly.

3135
01:53:38.800 --> 01:53:42.040
And so really what you need is not a perfect plan

3136
01:53:42.040 --> 01:53:43.840
or like a system that never fails.

3137
01:53:43.840 --> 01:53:46.440
What you need is a good plan for getting back on track.

3138
01:53:46.440 --> 01:53:49.520
You need, if the reclaiming of a habit is fast,

3139
01:53:49.520 --> 01:53:51.320
the breaking of it doesn't matter that much.

3140
01:53:51.320 --> 01:53:52.320
You get to the end of the year

3141
01:53:52.320 --> 01:53:54.080
and it's just like a little blip on the radar,

3142
01:53:54.080 --> 01:53:56.840
but you need a good plan for getting back on track quickly.

3143
01:53:56.840 --> 01:53:59.040
So I think that some of the balance,

3144
01:53:59.040 --> 01:54:02.960
some of the strategy is actually knowing what to do

3145
01:54:02.960 --> 01:54:04.120
when you fail.

3146
01:54:04.120 --> 01:54:04.960
Yeah.

3147
01:54:04.960 --> 01:54:06.200
And if you figure that out,

3148
01:54:06.200 --> 01:54:08.680
then you're in a good position to bounce back quickly.

3149
01:54:08.680 --> 01:54:09.960
Funnily enough, when I fail,

3150
01:54:09.960 --> 01:54:11.880
when I fall off my gym, I kind of whatever,

3151
01:54:11.880 --> 01:54:14.200
what I do is I set the display pitch

3152
01:54:14.200 --> 01:54:15.960
on my iPhone to red.

3153
01:54:15.960 --> 01:54:17.480
And I guess this is a point of self awareness.

3154
01:54:17.480 --> 01:54:19.960
It just reminds me that we've currently fallen off.

3155
01:54:19.960 --> 01:54:21.080
It means every time I look at my phone,

3156
01:54:21.080 --> 01:54:23.040
it's a reminder that this is code red.

3157
01:54:23.040 --> 01:54:23.880
Wow.

3158
01:54:24.160 --> 01:54:26.560
I want a strong visual sign here.

3159
01:54:26.560 --> 01:54:28.240
And I need to start doing the small steps,

3160
01:54:28.240 --> 01:54:30.160
doing the shit while counts again.

3161
01:54:30.160 --> 01:54:32.600
You know, so I have this little theory

3162
01:54:32.600 --> 01:54:36.000
that the secret to winning is actually learning how to lose.

3163
01:54:36.000 --> 01:54:38.840
It's that the secret to winning is knowing how to lose.

3164
01:54:38.840 --> 01:54:42.520
And what I mean is that it's knowing how to handle a loss.

3165
01:54:42.520 --> 01:54:45.920
It's knowing how to rebound and bounce back from that.

3166
01:54:45.920 --> 01:54:47.640
I think that I learned it through sports.

3167
01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:49.320
I don't think sports is the only way you can learn it.

3168
01:54:49.320 --> 01:54:51.000
I think probably anything that you do

3169
01:54:51.000 --> 01:54:53.440
with some level of public visibility could teach you,

3170
01:54:53.440 --> 01:54:55.680
you know, musical performance or being in a fitness group

3171
01:54:55.680 --> 01:54:57.480
with your friends or there's lots of ways you do it,

3172
01:54:57.480 --> 01:54:58.840
speaking publicly.

3173
01:54:58.840 --> 01:55:01.840
But one thing about sports is that you're going to fail

3174
01:55:01.840 --> 01:55:03.040
in front of the rest of the team.

3175
01:55:03.040 --> 01:55:05.360
You know, like the ball will come to you'll start

3176
01:55:05.360 --> 01:55:07.320
and make the strikeout to end the game or like,

3177
01:55:07.320 --> 01:55:09.680
you know, you go into the gym and work out with the team

3178
01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:11.680
and like you miss a lift or you're the week one

3179
01:55:11.680 --> 01:55:13.320
or whatever, like that doesn't feel good.

3180
01:55:13.320 --> 01:55:15.240
But then you realize life moves on.

3181
01:55:15.240 --> 01:55:16.400
You got to go on to the next set

3182
01:55:16.400 --> 01:55:18.000
and you have to show up again the next time.

3183
01:55:18.000 --> 01:55:20.880
And each little instance where there's like a little failure

3184
01:55:20.880 --> 01:55:25.000
like that is practice for you to bounce back again.

3185
01:55:25.000 --> 01:55:28.000
And I think it's important to have something in life

3186
01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:30.200
that's like that, that's teaching you how to respond

3187
01:55:30.200 --> 01:55:32.600
to failure, that you're learning how to lose

3188
01:55:32.600 --> 01:55:34.080
and how to bounce back from a loss

3189
01:55:34.080 --> 01:55:36.040
so that you can ultimately win.

3190
01:55:36.040 --> 01:55:38.440
I got to the point at the end of my career,

3191
01:55:38.440 --> 01:55:41.080
my senior year where I was basically like,

3192
01:55:41.080 --> 01:55:42.360
listen, I don't want to lose,

3193
01:55:42.360 --> 01:55:44.560
but if we're going to lose, I'd rather it be me.

3194
01:55:44.560 --> 01:55:46.800
I'd rather be out there, put it on my shoulders.

3195
01:55:46.800 --> 01:55:49.040
I can take the loss, you know, I can handle it.

3196
01:55:49.040 --> 01:55:50.520
I'll give you everything I have to try

3197
01:55:50.680 --> 01:55:52.120
and get us to win, but if we lose,

3198
01:55:52.120 --> 01:55:53.800
like I'll be able to bounce back from it.

3199
01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:56.120
And I think that that ended up serving me really well

3200
01:55:56.120 --> 01:55:57.800
in my entrepreneurial career

3201
01:55:57.800 --> 01:56:00.720
because stuff is never going to go your way all the time.

3202
01:56:00.720 --> 01:56:04.480
And you need to be able to be willing to try things

3203
01:56:04.480 --> 01:56:06.800
and be willing to sometimes look foolish

3204
01:56:06.800 --> 01:56:09.440
because of them and still find a way

3205
01:56:09.440 --> 01:56:10.800
to show back up the next time.

3206
01:56:10.800 --> 01:56:14.760
Reminds me of watching Roderick Federer's commencement speech.

3207
01:56:14.760 --> 01:56:16.520
He's arguably the best tennis player of all time

3208
01:56:16.520 --> 01:56:17.920
and Shockingly in his commencement speech.

3209
01:56:17.920 --> 01:56:19.040
I don't know if you saw it.

3210
01:56:19.080 --> 01:56:22.240
He talks about how in his career he's missed

3211
01:56:22.240 --> 01:56:24.760
something like 47% of the points.

3212
01:56:24.760 --> 01:56:26.520
He's the best to ever do it.

3213
01:56:26.520 --> 01:56:31.520
And he's only in his career has one 53% of the points

3214
01:56:31.720 --> 01:56:34.600
which means that half the time he's taking else,

3215
01:56:34.600 --> 01:56:37.520
but the difference is what he does when he takes the L

3216
01:56:37.520 --> 01:56:40.480
and not allowing that L, that miss point

3217
01:56:40.480 --> 01:56:42.840
to compound into his next shot.

3218
01:56:42.840 --> 01:56:45.320
And I always, in LA with my friends from my birthday,

3219
01:56:45.320 --> 01:56:48.440
my friend Ash, who's had the most paddle training,

3220
01:56:48.440 --> 01:56:49.440
we were playing paddle.

3221
01:56:49.440 --> 01:56:50.640
That's what we do basically all the time

3222
01:56:50.640 --> 01:56:52.360
when we see each other, our group of friends.

3223
01:56:52.360 --> 01:56:54.000
He had the most paddle training.

3224
01:56:54.000 --> 01:56:58.520
He's been in Spain with a coach, but when he lost a point,

3225
01:56:58.520 --> 01:57:00.960
he would then start losing easy points.

3226
01:57:00.960 --> 01:57:02.560
And there's his friend of me watching him play

3227
01:57:02.560 --> 01:57:03.880
and I'm like, what the hell is going on with him?

3228
01:57:03.880 --> 01:57:05.240
He's the best, he's meant to be the best place.

3229
01:57:05.240 --> 01:57:07.280
Got the most practice, most of my repetitions.

3230
01:57:07.280 --> 01:57:09.120
But when he loses a point,

3231
01:57:09.120 --> 01:57:10.480
his downward spiral takes place

3232
01:57:10.480 --> 01:57:12.000
where he just starts missing easy shots.

3233
01:57:12.000 --> 01:57:15.080
So when he sat down, I told him about Roderick Federer's thing

3234
01:57:15.080 --> 01:57:16.720
and I gave him this little idea in his head

3235
01:57:17.240 --> 01:57:18.320
to handle the loss.

3236
01:57:18.320 --> 01:57:21.160
And I said to him, when you lose the point, say in your head,

3237
01:57:21.160 --> 01:57:24.720
that point doesn't matter, I'm going to win this game anyway

3238
01:57:24.720 --> 01:57:26.600
because I am the better player.

3239
01:57:26.600 --> 01:57:28.160
And I still get goosebumps when I say it

3240
01:57:28.160 --> 01:57:31.360
because he went from being the fifth best in our group of five

3241
01:57:31.360 --> 01:57:34.680
to beating all of us immediately.

3242
01:57:34.680 --> 01:57:37.040
And it's so funny because my girlfriend and everyone here

3243
01:57:37.040 --> 01:57:39.800
knows he was like dancing through the house the same day.

3244
01:57:39.800 --> 01:57:40.560
He beat all of us.

3245
01:57:40.560 --> 01:57:41.400
I had never been beaten with him.

3246
01:57:41.400 --> 01:57:42.600
I have a paddle caught my garden.

3247
01:57:42.600 --> 01:57:44.840
Like he beat me immediately.

3248
01:57:44.920 --> 01:57:48.800
And all it was was making sure that when he took an L,

3249
01:57:48.800 --> 01:57:51.440
he didn't spiral into his emotional center of his brain

3250
01:57:51.440 --> 01:57:52.520
and start catastrophizing,

3251
01:57:52.520 --> 01:57:54.560
which he's susceptible to, if you know him,

3252
01:57:54.560 --> 01:57:56.320
he went straight back into the prefrontal cortex,

3253
01:57:56.320 --> 01:57:57.600
the rational center of his brain.

3254
01:57:57.600 --> 01:58:00.200
And he said, he's posted about it online

3255
01:58:00.200 --> 01:58:01.960
and I actually part of my Asia tour recently

3256
01:58:01.960 --> 01:58:02.960
was I showed all the videos

3257
01:58:02.960 --> 01:58:05.320
and all the WhatsApp messages of this whole thing happening.

3258
01:58:05.320 --> 01:58:06.600
But it just goes to show that actually,

3259
01:58:06.600 --> 01:58:08.760
it's how you take the L.

3260
01:58:08.760 --> 01:58:10.000
I love those mindset shifts.

3261
01:58:10.000 --> 01:58:13.560
It's just a, it's living life with the next play mentality.

3262
01:58:13.800 --> 01:58:16.840
It's like you don't let the last play dictate you or like ruin you.

3263
01:58:16.840 --> 01:58:19.320
It's we have to move on and make the next best choice now.

3264
01:58:19.320 --> 01:58:21.760
We have to, we have to live for the next play.

3265
01:58:21.760 --> 01:58:24.240
And how much emotion just like ruins our training?

3266
01:58:24.240 --> 01:58:25.280
Sure, you know?

3267
01:58:25.280 --> 01:58:26.120
Yeah.

3268
01:58:26.120 --> 01:58:26.960
I feel like a lot of this is,

3269
01:58:26.960 --> 01:58:27.640
there's a great book,

3270
01:58:27.640 --> 01:58:30.800
Inner Game of Tennis that came out many, many years ago,

3271
01:58:30.800 --> 01:58:32.880
might even be 50 at this point.

3272
01:58:32.880 --> 01:58:34.360
But it's basically a whole about this.

3273
01:58:34.360 --> 01:58:36.120
It's about not getting in your head.

3274
01:58:36.120 --> 01:58:38.560
And it's specifically for tennis,

3275
01:58:38.560 --> 01:58:39.640
but it applies to life.

3276
01:58:39.640 --> 01:58:41.720
You know, it's just about, yeah,

3277
01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:43.880
it's moving on and having this next play mentality.

3278
01:58:43.880 --> 01:58:45.400
So David Brailswood to that to me as well,

3279
01:58:45.400 --> 01:58:47.760
that one of his main objectives when he had the cycling team

3280
01:58:47.760 --> 01:58:51.960
was to get them not to think about the race while they were on the race.

3281
01:58:51.960 --> 01:58:54.320
And he said, I think it's Circus Chris Hoy or someone.

3282
01:58:54.320 --> 01:58:58.400
He said, my entire training with Chris Hoy was getting him to stop thinking about

3283
01:58:58.400 --> 01:59:02.800
the current race he was in and that when Chris was hit his personal bests,

3284
01:59:02.800 --> 01:59:06.840
he would get off the bike and have no recollection of cycling.

3285
01:59:06.840 --> 01:59:09.480
He goes to the point that it was like he was asleep on the bike.

3286
01:59:09.520 --> 01:59:11.440
Because when the alternative meant that,

3287
01:59:11.440 --> 01:59:13.720
Chris would start thinking about his time and then cycling too hard

3288
01:59:13.720 --> 01:59:16.480
and exhausting himself and fall out of his training.

3289
01:59:16.480 --> 01:59:18.880
So fascinating, fascinating.

3290
01:59:18.880 --> 01:59:21.840
You talk about daily mental mindsets as well.

3291
01:59:21.840 --> 01:59:24.280
Is it important to adopt a particular daily mental mindset?

3292
01:59:24.280 --> 01:59:29.720
Well, I had this thought that one time I had this thought

3293
01:59:29.720 --> 01:59:31.800
that it would be cool to be able to hire a mental performance coach

3294
01:59:31.800 --> 01:59:32.920
who just did one thing.

3295
01:59:32.920 --> 01:59:35.800
So you hire this coach and then they call you up each morning

3296
01:59:35.800 --> 01:59:39.400
like 8 a.m. or something and they give you like a five minute pet talk.

3297
01:59:39.400 --> 01:59:42.360
Or just they give you like a five minute mindset shift,

3298
01:59:42.360 --> 01:59:44.640
just something little kind of like what you said to your friend.

3299
01:59:44.640 --> 01:59:48.480
And just like you get this little mindset shift to reset your day

3300
01:59:48.480 --> 01:59:52.080
and go into it with momentum and they hang up and you just go do your thing.

3301
01:59:52.080 --> 01:59:55.520
And I couldn't find anybody who could do that.

3302
01:59:55.520 --> 01:59:59.080
But I've been working on this little project where I've been trying to figure out how to do it.

3303
01:59:59.080 --> 02:00:01.480
And so I came up with, it sounds almost kind of silly,

3304
02:00:01.480 --> 02:00:02.440
but I'm really excited about it.

3305
02:00:02.440 --> 02:00:05.520
I came up with this Atomic Habits daily calendar.

3306
02:00:05.520 --> 02:00:09.320
And the idea is just, it's actually like a blend of atomic habits principles

3307
02:00:09.320 --> 02:00:11.880
and 321, which is my weekly newsletter.

3308
02:00:11.880 --> 02:00:14.880
And I just have like one little mindset shift that's on each page.

3309
02:00:14.880 --> 02:00:16.760
And it's just one page for each day of the year.

3310
02:00:16.760 --> 02:00:19.160
You just look at it, read that page, boom, go into your day.

3311
02:00:19.160 --> 02:00:21.120
And like it's just intend to be a little mindset shift.

3312
02:00:21.120 --> 02:00:22.760
Anyway, it's just a small thing.

3313
02:00:22.760 --> 02:00:26.640
But I like the idea of priming yourself to start the day in the right way.

3314
02:00:26.640 --> 02:00:28.920
And I don't know.

3315
02:00:28.920 --> 02:00:30.800
I didn't think that I would be excited about a calendar,

3316
02:00:30.800 --> 02:00:32.960
but I'm kind of excited about it.

3317
02:00:32.960 --> 02:00:34.680
I kind of feel like it could be good.

3318
02:00:34.680 --> 02:00:35.880
So is it coming out?

3319
02:00:35.880 --> 02:00:37.720
Yes, it'll be out in, it'll be out soon.

3320
02:00:37.720 --> 02:00:38.720
Yeah.

3321
02:00:38.760 --> 02:00:39.560
Where would we find that?

3322
02:00:39.560 --> 02:00:40.400
Do we sign up to the...

3323
02:00:40.400 --> 02:00:41.240
It's on Amazon.

3324
02:00:41.240 --> 02:00:43.440
You can go there, or you can go to james.com

3325
02:00:43.440 --> 02:00:44.400
and you'll find it there.

3326
02:00:44.400 --> 02:00:46.160
But yeah.

3327
02:00:46.160 --> 02:00:49.040
So this book, The Atomic Habits Workbook,

3328
02:00:49.040 --> 02:00:54.440
simple exercises for building the life you want is now how it came out this week.

3329
02:00:54.440 --> 02:00:56.840
What is the distinction between these two books?

3330
02:00:56.840 --> 02:00:59.760
If I read or tell you what it's already, let me have a book.

3331
02:00:59.760 --> 02:01:00.760
Right.

3332
02:01:00.760 --> 02:01:08.240
So atomic habits is the culmination of basically 10 years of work and effort

3333
02:01:08.280 --> 02:01:09.080
for me.

3334
02:01:09.080 --> 02:01:14.560
It's like, my objective was to write the best book

3335
02:01:14.560 --> 02:01:15.960
that's ever been written on habits.

3336
02:01:15.960 --> 02:01:17.880
Now, I don't know that I achieve that or not.

3337
02:01:17.880 --> 02:01:19.760
That's for the readers to decide.

3338
02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:22.800
But I don't think you're ever going to just stumble into that result.

3339
02:01:22.800 --> 02:01:24.880
You have to at least strive for it.

3340
02:01:24.880 --> 02:01:28.760
And so that was the hope is that everything that you would

3341
02:01:28.760 --> 02:01:32.000
could possibly need to know about building good habits and bringing bad ones

3342
02:01:32.000 --> 02:01:34.240
should be an atomic habits.

3343
02:01:34.240 --> 02:01:36.760
So then you're like, OK, why would I need a workbook?

3344
02:01:36.840 --> 02:01:39.920
But what I've learned over the last seven years

3345
02:01:39.920 --> 02:01:42.320
of this being out and selling 25 million copies

3346
02:01:42.320 --> 02:01:46.160
is that people always need more tangible practical help

3347
02:01:46.160 --> 02:01:48.280
with implementing their habits.

3348
02:01:48.280 --> 02:01:51.040
So atomic habits is the full guide

3349
02:01:51.040 --> 02:01:54.160
and the philosophy and the approach on how to do it.

3350
02:01:54.160 --> 02:01:57.080
Then you finish this book and you sit there and say, all right, great.

3351
02:01:57.080 --> 02:01:58.960
I have some habits I want to build.

3352
02:01:58.960 --> 02:01:59.880
How do I do that?

3353
02:01:59.880 --> 02:02:03.360
And the exercises in the workbook are intended to help you do that.

3354
02:02:03.360 --> 02:02:06.520
They help you look at your environment and figure out how do I optimize it?

3355
02:02:06.520 --> 02:02:09.640
They help you look at your goals and how do I translate it into a system?

3356
02:02:09.640 --> 02:02:13.480
They help you look at your desired identity and how are my habits reinforcing it?

3357
02:02:13.480 --> 02:02:17.240
So it's just a series of exercises that help you apply and implement

3358
02:02:17.240 --> 02:02:18.920
the ideas from atomic habits.

3359
02:02:18.920 --> 02:02:22.800
The great thing about the way that you write is it's so unbelievably accessible.

3360
02:02:22.800 --> 02:02:25.680
So unbelievably accessible in the context, which means that you don't need to be

3361
02:02:25.680 --> 02:02:28.920
a scientist or an expert to understand the concept.

3362
02:02:28.920 --> 02:02:30.280
So I think that's why the book has been,

3363
02:02:30.280 --> 02:02:32.400
atomic habits has been so unbelievably successful.

3364
02:02:32.400 --> 02:02:35.120
But this book, the workbook, follows in the same vein.

3365
02:02:35.120 --> 02:02:39.640
It allows people at all levels of their knowledge of habits and intellect

3366
02:02:39.640 --> 02:02:42.440
to get going and to start sort of holding themselves accountable.

3367
02:02:42.440 --> 02:02:44.080
I'd say accountability is a huge part of this.

3368
02:02:44.080 --> 02:02:47.520
I kind of see elements of that fitness group I described fitness blockchain

3369
02:02:47.520 --> 02:02:50.800
just because you're reflecting and you're writing down what happened.

3370
02:02:50.800 --> 02:02:57.000
And like you said earlier about how just journaling increases the likelihood of a behavior,

3371
02:02:57.000 --> 02:02:59.920
this book will raise yourself awareness.

3372
02:02:59.920 --> 02:03:02.320
Yes, that's actually a great summary of it.

3373
02:03:02.320 --> 02:03:06.000
I think it makes you more aware of your habits and your environment

3374
02:03:06.000 --> 02:03:07.640
and what you're trying to do specifically,

3375
02:03:07.640 --> 02:03:10.320
rather than just understanding the concepts.

3376
02:03:10.320 --> 02:03:11.320
James, thank you.

3377
02:03:11.320 --> 02:03:13.240
Thank you for changing so many people's lives.

3378
02:03:13.240 --> 02:03:14.480
You must hear this all the time.

3379
02:03:14.480 --> 02:03:20.640
But what a remarkable, remarkable impact you must have had on so many people

3380
02:03:20.640 --> 02:03:22.360
you'll never get to me.

3381
02:03:22.360 --> 02:03:25.800
Getting them to quit habits that would have otherwise been fatal for them.

3382
02:03:25.800 --> 02:03:29.920
You know, my dad is a prime example of someone who was smoking for 20 odd years

3383
02:03:29.920 --> 02:03:32.600
of his life. He starts reading about these habit cycles in your work,

3384
02:03:32.600 --> 02:03:35.480
but in other people's work as well, and he's quit smoking.

3385
02:03:35.480 --> 02:03:37.600
And that's probably extended his life to some degree.

3386
02:03:37.600 --> 02:03:40.640
And that's one such example of, I'd say 25 million,

3387
02:03:40.640 --> 02:03:43.160
because I know the atomic habits are sold 25 million,

3388
02:03:43.160 --> 02:03:46.200
but you've reached many, many, many, many millions of people

3389
02:03:46.200 --> 02:03:50.520
through your newsletter as well, 321, which is the, I mean,

3390
02:03:50.520 --> 02:03:55.320
the newsletter has kind of created a blueprint for anyone that writes a newsletter,

3391
02:03:55.320 --> 02:03:57.400
frankly, I think everybody looks up to your work

3392
02:03:57.400 --> 02:04:01.080
and what you've built as the framework for starting their own newsletters.

3393
02:04:01.080 --> 02:04:05.320
And, you know, I think you'll never get to see the downstream impact of the work you've done.

3394
02:04:05.320 --> 02:04:08.680
But on behalf of everybody who's had their life changed

3395
02:04:08.680 --> 02:04:12.200
because of the hard work you've put in and the Europe session and your focus

3396
02:04:12.200 --> 02:04:15.280
and your passion and these incredible works of art that you've written

3397
02:04:15.280 --> 02:04:18.200
and that you didn't rush, thank you.

3398
02:04:18.200 --> 02:04:21.560
And thank you on behalf of myself because your work has been super formative

3399
02:04:21.560 --> 02:04:24.240
in how I think about business, how I think about my team.

3400
02:04:24.240 --> 02:04:26.680
And many of the phrases that we use in our office every single day

3401
02:04:26.680 --> 02:04:29.600
to build the companies we've built have come from your work as well.

3402
02:04:29.600 --> 02:04:30.440
Everybody needs to go out.

3403
02:04:30.440 --> 02:04:33.960
I mean, if you don't have atomic habits, then I don't know what you've been doing with your life.

3404
02:04:33.960 --> 02:04:38.440
But now that the atomic habits work because here, you now have a much more

3405
02:04:39.920 --> 02:04:43.960
self awareness inducing practical hands on framework

3406
02:04:43.960 --> 02:04:46.120
for implementing some of the stuff you've read in atomic habits.

3407
02:04:46.120 --> 02:04:48.680
Now, I'm going to link both of them below so everybody can go grab them.

3408
02:04:48.680 --> 02:04:53.120
But also your James's newsletters for Norman also, I'll link that below as well.

3409
02:04:53.120 --> 02:04:54.760
We do have a closing tradition on this podcast

3410
02:04:54.760 --> 02:04:57.560
where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for.

3411
02:04:57.560 --> 02:05:02.200
Hmm, the question that has been left for you, DMX person in the chat.

3412
02:05:02.200 --> 02:05:11.200
What do you believe is the best way to unify people of differing or even conflicting beliefs?

3413
02:05:11.200 --> 02:05:14.080
Let me know your thoughts, best.

3414
02:05:14.080 --> 02:05:15.600
Come on, Iris.

3415
02:05:15.600 --> 02:05:17.440
I think the best way is to scale it down.

3416
02:05:17.440 --> 02:05:19.920
You know, if you say, how can we have a more unified nation?

3417
02:05:19.920 --> 02:05:24.320
It's big, it's vague, it's, it's almost impossible, it's like an intractable level.

3418
02:05:24.360 --> 02:05:27.360
But if you scale it down, now you can come up with things.

3419
02:05:27.360 --> 02:05:29.000
You know, how can you have a more unified neighborhood?

3420
02:05:29.000 --> 02:05:33.600
You could start a book club or do a block party or you can come up with all kinds of things that you could do.

3421
02:05:33.600 --> 02:05:36.360
And what you find is that in many cases in life,

3422
02:05:36.360 --> 02:05:39.960
problems are intractable at a certain level, at a certain scale.

3423
02:05:39.960 --> 02:05:45.000
And if you shift what level you're at, suddenly it reveals itself and there's a new solution.

3424
02:05:45.000 --> 02:05:50.400
And so I think that is obviously true with big picture things like the question I was asked.

3425
02:05:50.400 --> 02:05:52.080
But it's also true for your habits.

3426
02:05:52.080 --> 02:05:57.640
You know, if you think about your life in general and you say, how can I have a better life or how can I figure out my purpose?

3427
02:05:57.640 --> 02:06:00.480
How can I figure out, you know, how to have a life of meaning?

3428
02:06:00.480 --> 02:06:01.840
These are big, hard questions.

3429
02:06:01.840 --> 02:06:03.640
Sometimes they're almost intractable.

3430
02:06:03.640 --> 02:06:05.600
They're too vague, they're too broad.

3431
02:06:05.600 --> 02:06:09.600
But if you can scale it down and say, how can I live a good day today?

3432
02:06:09.600 --> 02:06:11.360
Or how can I have a good week?

3433
02:06:11.360 --> 02:06:14.240
How can I have, you know, a good next hour?

3434
02:06:14.240 --> 02:06:17.000
How can I make this minute as perfect as possible?

3435
02:06:17.000 --> 02:06:19.520
Well, those levels are much more achievable.

3436
02:06:19.520 --> 02:06:23.640
And so I think if you scale your habits down to a level that's more solvable,

3437
02:06:23.640 --> 02:06:26.000
you'll often see that there's a path forward there.

3438
02:06:26.000 --> 02:06:30.000
What's interesting with your neighborhood analogy as well is that neighborhoods are interconnected.

3439
02:06:30.000 --> 02:06:33.440
So if I focus on making my neighborhood good,

3440
02:06:33.440 --> 02:06:38.040
then that kind of just crosses over with the next neighborhood, like thinking about my street where you live.

3441
02:06:38.040 --> 02:06:41.040
And so if that neighborhood becomes good, it's going to then hit the next domain,

3442
02:06:41.040 --> 02:06:43.400
which is the neighborhood next door and then eventually,

3443
02:06:43.400 --> 02:06:45.800
which is also true for your personal life.

3444
02:06:45.800 --> 02:06:48.880
You know, each unit of time each little habit is connected.

3445
02:06:48.880 --> 02:06:54.320
You know, you put your habits together and you kind of end up with this system of behaviors that influence your day and your week.

3446
02:06:54.320 --> 02:06:58.600
So mastering this hour makes the next hour a little bit better as well.

3447
02:06:58.600 --> 02:07:02.080
There's, I ultimately chose the phrase atomic habits for three reasons.

3448
02:07:02.080 --> 02:07:04.120
So there's three meanings to the word atomic.

3449
02:07:04.120 --> 02:07:08.800
The first is tiny or small, like an atom, which obviously I think your habits should be small and easy to do.

3450
02:07:08.800 --> 02:07:12.120
The second meaning is the one we're talking about now and the one people often forget,

3451
02:07:12.120 --> 02:07:15.760
which is an atom is a fundamentally unit in a larger system.

3452
02:07:15.760 --> 02:07:19.360
So atoms build in molecules, molecules build in compounds and so on.

3453
02:07:19.360 --> 02:07:21.960
And your habits are kind of like the little units of your day.

3454
02:07:21.960 --> 02:07:25.200
You know, collectively you put them together and you have your daily routine.

3455
02:07:25.200 --> 02:07:28.600
And then the third meaning is the source of immense energy or power.

3456
02:07:28.600 --> 02:07:33.000
And so if you put all three of these together, you kind of understand the narrative arc of the book,

3457
02:07:33.000 --> 02:07:35.960
which is you make changes that are small and easy to do.

3458
02:07:35.960 --> 02:07:39.160
You layer them together like units in a larger system.

3459
02:07:39.160 --> 02:07:43.120
And collectively you get this powerful, remarkable result as a process.

3460
02:07:43.120 --> 02:07:44.680
And so or as a consequence.

3461
02:07:44.680 --> 02:07:46.840
And that is the idea behind atomic habits.

3462
02:07:46.840 --> 02:07:49.400
You make these small changes and it's not just one.

3463
02:07:49.400 --> 02:07:51.320
It's like a hundred or a thousand of them.

3464
02:07:51.320 --> 02:07:55.560
And collectively they come together to create this powerful, impressive life.

3465
02:07:55.560 --> 02:07:58.200
Powerful, impressive life.

3466
02:07:58.200 --> 02:08:02.000
Do you think that we should all be aiming at this is a bit of an interesting word?

3467
02:08:02.000 --> 02:08:07.200
But happiness is that should that is that the North Star that I'll have it

3468
02:08:07.200 --> 02:08:11.960
should ladder up towards or fulfillment to whatever one might say or meaning?

3469
02:08:11.960 --> 02:08:14.920
First of all, I think we should distinguish between happiness and meaning.

3470
02:08:14.920 --> 02:08:17.920
You know, happiness and purpose or some of my fulfillment.

3471
02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:19.800
I don't think they're necessarily the same.

3472
02:08:19.800 --> 02:08:22.560
You know, like there are many moments in my life when I'm happy.

3473
02:08:22.560 --> 02:08:24.400
And that can be in the moment.

3474
02:08:24.400 --> 02:08:27.000
And a lot of the most meaningful things that I worked on, you know,

3475
02:08:27.000 --> 02:08:29.680
atomic habits is one of those meaningful projects that I've worked on.

3476
02:08:29.680 --> 02:08:32.600
It seems to have made a big difference for a lot of people or helped a lot of people.

3477
02:08:32.600 --> 02:08:34.080
I feel great about that.

3478
02:08:34.080 --> 02:08:37.000
But I wasn't necessarily happy every minute that I was working on it.

3479
02:08:37.000 --> 02:08:39.400
You know, like it was quite difficult in lots of different times.

3480
02:08:39.400 --> 02:08:41.680
And it took a long time and it was arduous and so on.

3481
02:08:41.680 --> 02:08:42.840
But it provides a lot of meaning.

3482
02:08:42.840 --> 02:08:46.360
So I definitely think it was worth it, even if I wasn't always happy in the moment.

3483
02:08:46.360 --> 02:08:50.800
So I don't know that you should necessarily optimize for any of that all the time.

3484
02:08:50.800 --> 02:08:55.680
You know, I don't think your habits will lead you to someplace where you are just permanently happy.

3485
02:08:55.680 --> 02:09:01.400
But they will definitely take you on a journey where happiness is part of it

3486
02:09:01.400 --> 02:09:04.600
and where meaning can be part of it.

3487
02:09:04.600 --> 02:09:06.720
And there are lots of other things that are parts of life too.

3488
02:09:06.720 --> 02:09:11.240
But yeah, I think that you will be well served to invest in them, for sure.

3489
02:09:11.280 --> 02:09:12.440
James, thank you so much.

3490
02:09:12.440 --> 02:09:14.400
Thank you. And thank you so much for saying those kind of things.

3491
02:09:14.400 --> 02:09:16.160
That's very nice of you.

3492
02:09:16.160 --> 02:09:23.360
I have been incredibly lucky and blown away by the reception to the book.

3493
02:09:23.360 --> 02:09:28.040
And it just feels great to know that people are finding it useful.

3494
02:09:28.040 --> 02:09:30.920
You know, all I wanted to do was try to be useful and helpful.

3495
02:09:30.920 --> 02:09:32.720
And I appreciate you saying that.

3496
02:09:32.720 --> 02:09:36.040
And I'm grateful that many other people have sounded helpful as well.

3497
02:09:36.040 --> 02:09:38.160
Yeah, I didn't think you'll ever realize.

3498
02:09:38.200 --> 02:09:41.440
You know, you see 25 million people have bought the book, but it's much bigger than that.

3499
02:09:41.440 --> 02:09:45.280
It's billions of people have been impacted by that because everybody is like a,

3500
02:09:45.280 --> 02:09:46.840
like a pebble thrown into the ocean, right?

3501
02:09:46.840 --> 02:09:49.320
There's these ripple effects that go on and it changes their professional life,

3502
02:09:49.320 --> 02:09:51.520
their personal life, their health, their friendships, relationships.

3503
02:09:51.520 --> 02:09:53.960
So it's unbelievable. Thank you, James. Thank you. Thank you.

3504
02:09:57.720 --> 02:09:59.920
This is something that I've made for you.

3505
02:09:59.920 --> 02:10:02.520
I've realized that the Diavisio audience are strivers,

3506
02:10:02.520 --> 02:10:06.480
whether it's in business or health, we all have big goals that we want to accomplish.

3507
02:10:06.600 --> 02:10:11.280
And one of the things I've learnt is that when you aim at the big, big, big goal,

3508
02:10:11.280 --> 02:10:15.120
it can feel incredibly psychologically uncomfortable,

3509
02:10:15.120 --> 02:10:18.720
because it's kind of like being stood at the foot of Mount Everest and looking upwards.

3510
02:10:18.720 --> 02:10:23.680
The way to accomplish your goals is by breaking them down into tiny, small steps.

3511
02:10:23.680 --> 02:10:25.560
And we call this an R team, the 1%.

3512
02:10:25.560 --> 02:10:29.840
And actually, this philosophy is highly responsible for much of our success here.

3513
02:10:29.840 --> 02:10:34.560
So what we've done so that you at home can accomplish any big goal that you have

3514
02:10:34.560 --> 02:10:37.240
is we've made these 1% diaries.

3515
02:10:37.240 --> 02:10:39.800
And we've released these last year and they all sold out.

3516
02:10:39.800 --> 02:10:42.680
So I asked my team over and over again to bring the diaries back,

3517
02:10:42.680 --> 02:10:46.040
but also to introduce some new colors and to make some minor tweaks to the diary.

3518
02:10:46.040 --> 02:10:50.600
So now we have a better range for you.

3519
02:10:50.600 --> 02:10:55.840
So if you have a big goal in mind and you need a framework and a process and some motivation,

3520
02:10:55.840 --> 02:11:00.520
then I highly recommend you get one of these diaries before they all sell out once again.

3521
02:11:00.520 --> 02:11:05.720
And you can get yours now at the diary.com where you can get 20% off our Black Friday bundle.

3522
02:11:05.720 --> 02:11:07.720
And if you want the link, the link is in the description below.