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What are the five most important things for anyone who's striving to be a masterful communicator, to get what they want out of life?

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The first is authenticity, and presence is the highest form of authenticity.

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Okay, on that point, I'm gonna play this video on the screen that went viral of Marty Cyrus and Amy Campbell.

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I haven't seen this.

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That's painful to watch.

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Number two, reduce the amount of distraction.

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Three, stop over and explain.

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Number four.

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Know how to deal with their sadness, and I'll go through all of these in detail.

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But number five is, you have to know how to handle the narcissist and the gas lighter.

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What do I do?

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Let me show you.

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First, you need to.

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Yeah, for a lot of people that kind of blows their mind.

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Jefferson Fisher is back, and the board certified trial lawyer is using his expertise in conflict resolution and communication.

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Teach couples, friends, employees, and everyone in between how to master difficult conversations.

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Here's the truth, you have to invest in your communication.

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If I don't say what needs to be said at work, I'll lose that promotion.

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Same thing in relationships.

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Most relationships don't fall apart because they fill out a love.

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They fill out a communication.

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Because of a hundred moments where repair could have happened, and it didn't work.

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As you said, this is so stupid, this is so small.

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Like, there's a recent study showing that the biggest predictor of the child's well-being within the parental relationship is not whether they were married or divorced.

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It was how they deal with conflict.

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But people are definitely afraid of the conflict at their hand, because they don't know what to say.

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And so I want to help them fill control and feel confident in this.

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And it's knowing things like being right is overrated.

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If I respond first with frustration, I'm going to lose every time.

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Or if you want to know how to handle the insults, the patronizing, the dismissive, the first thing you have to do is...

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That's the mistake I've made multiple times.

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Just give me 30 seconds of your time.

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Two things I wanted to say.

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The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show.

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Week after week means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had.

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And couldn't have imagined getting to this place.

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But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started.

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And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app.

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Here's a promise I'm going to make to you.

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I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future.

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We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to.

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And we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.

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Thank you.

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Jefferson Fisher.

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What do you do professionally?

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How do you sort of characterize your profession?

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Well, I'm a trial attorney by trade.

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What does that mean?

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That means I help clients with legal needs, board certified and personal injury.

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So when people get hurt, I have trials.

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So that means there are other attorneys that don't ever go to a courtroom.

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I go into a courtroom.

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And you stand before a judge and a judge?

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Yeah.

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You have a judge, you have a jury, you have a court reporter, a bailiff, you have opposing attorneys.

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They're people in the room.

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And you try and convince those people of your point of view to get a particular outcome.

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Advocate my client's facts in order to get the result that they want.

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So why did you think it was important to write a book about conversation, talking,

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getting what you want from the conversations we have with people we care about?

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Because I have seen time and time again that when I am training a client is what I call.

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I'm preparing them for cross-examination for deposition.

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They really don't know how to engage in conflict.

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And so I can't think of any other profession that is more entrenched in conflict.

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Maybe outside of a boxer or some, you know, UFC, something that deals with actual conflict

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and sits there and listens to it all, then in the legal world and a trial attorney.

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And so yeah, it's my job to advocate based on my client's facts to get them the result that they want.

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The reason why I wrote that book and how that book applies is I took a lot of the lessons that I teach every one of my clients

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and put them in that book because I'm sitting there preparing them for cross-examination

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in realizing, oh wait, they are definitely afraid of the conflict that they're in.

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Because most of the time it's the most emotional, stressful, overwhelmed they are ever in their life.

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They're in a place they've never been.

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They don't know what it's like. They've only seen it on TV.

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And so it's my job to kind of take their hand and say this is how we're going to do it.

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And how does that apply to the average person in their life?

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People think that the goal of any argument or any conversation is to win.

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And same for a trial. They say you want to win a trial.

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I've seen it so many times where I've gotten the result that they want

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and they realize they still have the problem. They still wanted the apology.

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It all would have been resolved. There'd be no case if somebody just said, I'm sorry.

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And so you find that for the everyday person, it's my job now and passion

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to be able to help them get into conflict and say, I feel controlled in this.

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I feel confident in this. Now I know exactly where I'm going in this

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because I've been there before and it is not a skill that comes naturally.

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It is a skill that is learned.

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And what do you think is the sort of variance and outcome?

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How would my life change if I became an absolute master in this?

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If I started from zero in this regard and then I became a master in dealing with conflict

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and dealing with difficult people and dealing with people that gas like me

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and dealing with narcissists and all these kinds of things, why would my life be different?

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And in what domains?

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It's quite a lot.

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First would be you would be equipped for outside of necessary expertise

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anywhere you wanted to be in life.

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People feel like communication is zero cost.

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It costs you something. If I'm not speaking up in that relationship,

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it costs my own sense of worth. If I don't say what needs to be said at work,

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well, I might have lost that promotion.

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Everything the bill always comes due.

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If you can think of every time you didn't say the thing as like a receipt at a restaurant,

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every time it's a bill of what I am not putting into my life

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because I chose to either say something or not say something at the right time.

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And when you realize that if I can speak with confidence,

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well, that's me gaining a little bit more.

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If I can say things with control, that's me gaining just a little bit more.

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A second benefit of it is that you realize being right is overrated.

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If you tell me the sky is purple, knock yourself out, Stephen.

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You don't have to touch anything with me on who I am or any of my opinions.

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We're opinion making machines.

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That's all on social media.

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It's just be set up to give your opinion on things that most of the time will rarely ever touch you.

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And if you can have the peace of mind of knowing,

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I don't need to agree with you to understand you.

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If you have an opinion, I don't have to give one back.

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If you say something, I can choose not to say anything at all.

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And for a lot of people that kind of blows their mind of,

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I mean, I don't have to respond. No, you don't have to say anything.

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If somebody's talking really fast, you can talk really slow.

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They forget that you have full autonomy in it.

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And when you realize that it's you who's taking the wheel,

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you take the wheel of your life.

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But what about justice, Jefferson?

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Do you know justice?

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This person has wronged me. They've said something wrong.

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I don't know. They tweeted at me something which is incorrect.

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I need to correct the record, justice.

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I think we all have a sort of an innate sense of justice.

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We want things to be fair and right.

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Yes. Justice is an inherent value that is high priority for a lot of people for good reason.

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You might say, well, they've wronged me. This isn't right.

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That's all well and good.

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The question is going to be, how long do you want to carry it?

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How long do you want to carry that feeling?

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Because I can either choose to let it go.

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I can choose to say the thing.

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It's not at all my position that you should be stepping on egg shells

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and not say the thing and be a wallflower.

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I know it's the opposite.

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I'm saying you say what you need to say in a way that is controlled

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in a way that is signaling.

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I'm saying this because it needs to be said, but not because I have to say it.

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There's a lot of people who feel like, well, something needs to be said.

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But in my, maybe you're not the one to say it.

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Maybe you're the one that needs to, I mean, it doesn't need to be said right now

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because if they're not willing to listen, well, then what good is it ever do?

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What I like to say is, you know, for you to learn how to stand up for yourself,

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you first have to learn who's worth getting out of your chair for.

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I'm not going to be making big moves for something that is not at all worth my time.

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So yeah, justice is absolutely worth it.

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But when you go, I'm the one that has to be carrying this.

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A lot of the times people do things to you and it's nothing to them.

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But yet it's everything to you and now you're just, you're walking around for 20 years

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with a comment that you could have said something way long ago and decided to drop it.

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But you chose to carry it and now you're the only one that has the weight of that.

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If I'm dealing with someone who's in a position of power,

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someone who's a, I don't know, a senior to me at my company

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or even someone who in my social group is a bit more higher up in this sort of social pecking order

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and they're continually putting me down or being difficult or even a partner

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that I'm romantically involved in.

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What are the hallmarks of someone who has control over their communication

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and what are the hallmarks of someone that doesn't?

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Like what is it that makes?

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Because when you speak, it's very, feels very composed and controlled.

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What are you intentionally doing to achieve that effect?

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I'm wanting you to match my rhythm.

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I'm wanting you to come to my frequency.

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People get it wrong when they go big time to an 11, big emotional reaction.

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If I have a big emotional outburst and my signaling that I'm somebody who's trustworthy, reliable and confident

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or my signaling that I am out of my depth, I don't know what I want and I am not to be believed.

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Because when you have an emotional outburst, everybody thinks you're just being emotional

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and they don't, all of a sudden you're not credited for the truth of what you're saying.

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So sometimes emotions can get in the way of what needs to be said because of how you're delivering it.

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So when I say, I'm going to talk to you in a way that's going to sound more controlled.

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I'm slowing down my words. I'm lower in my volume.

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Why? Because I want to pull you down here.

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And if I can pull you down here, well, then we can talk about a lot harder things

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rather than feeling like I have to rush.

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So if you want to talk to somebody in your relationship or somebody that's kind of higher up on the picking order, so to speak,

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when you can show them that change doesn't bother you.

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When you can show them that you don't have to rush through this situation.

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People feel that you are giving them a sense of comfort.

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In other words, in conversation, everybody is looking for an anchor.

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When you go to a meeting, we listen to the person who's the anchor.

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They're usually the person who says a lot less.

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The person who's observing and listening rather than always giving their opinion about what you should be doing.

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Those are the people you don't listen to.

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As soon as you, if you've ever heard somebody say, you know what I think you should do?

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Does that ever make you want to do what they said?

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No, it's because they've made it their idea.

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Now they're telling you what to do.

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If I were to say to you, you can't do that.

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What's the first thing you think of?

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Yes, I can.

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You know, it's the same kind of concept where it's me lowering to be the anchor in the conversation.

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And when you're in a case in front of a judge,

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is there anything else that you're intentionally thinking about with, I don't know, your body language or the eye contact?

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Do any of these other things that you've learned over time are really important to get your message heard?

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I'm speaking like I've been there before.

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I'll explain that to me.

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Walk into a room like you've been there before.

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As if everybody else is just visiting.

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So what I do before every trial is I will go in there before the jury comes in.

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The judge comes in, everybody comes in.

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And I say to myself, this is my living room and everybody else is just visiting.

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And so I will touch the chairs.

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I will put my hands on the banisters.

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I will walk around.

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I will fill that space and feel it in a way of saying, I have been here before.

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And when I can exude that kind of confidence to every juror that watches,

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all of a sudden it calms them down.

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They go, who can I rely on here?

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Who's more trustworthy?

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Who's more credible?

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Because that's what it is.

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When you're persuading, when you are advocating your case,

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it's who ultimately comes down to who is more credible.

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And so when I can knock it emotionally flustered.

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Like I've seen it so many times where a judge rules against me.

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And I act as though that's exactly what I wanted.

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You know, I'm acting as though, thank you, judge.

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And the jury is never going to know really any different.

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But I've seen on other attorneys where the judge rules against them and they go.

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Or they roll their eyes or they act frustrated.

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And what is the juror thing?

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Oh, they must not have wanted me to hear this information.

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This must have been bad for their case.

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So if you are always reacting to situations in which you have to be emotional with

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00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:09.500
in a sense that you're not paying attention to who's watching you.

229
00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:11.500
On that point.

230
00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:13.500
So when you say rules against you,

231
00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:16.500
you mean during the trial, there's something you request.

232
00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:18.500
The judge might say no and you say thank you, judge.

233
00:14:18.500 --> 00:14:20.500
You act as if you're not defeated.

234
00:14:20.500 --> 00:14:23.500
You act as though that's exactly what you expected.

235
00:14:23.500 --> 00:14:28.500
It's the whole idea of that's not going to shake me.

236
00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:31.500
So a lot of the times you'll see in real court, not TV,

237
00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:34.500
the judge will say, counsel, can you approach?

238
00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:37.500
And both attorneys come up and they play some kind of noise cancellation

239
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.500
to where only the attorneys can hear the judge.

240
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:42.500
And the judge is making a decision at that time

241
00:14:42.500 --> 00:14:44.500
that we don't want to hear it to let jury know why

242
00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:48.500
because it's information that might sway the case in some way

243
00:14:48.500 --> 00:14:50.500
and not be as objective.

244
00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:54.500
And you have to pay attention to how the attorneys are walking away

245
00:14:54.500 --> 00:14:55.500
after that meeting's done.

246
00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:57.500
If somebody looks defeated, it just signals,

247
00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:00.500
oh, this is information that they must not want.

248
00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:02.500
Or they're objecting.

249
00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:06.500
I've seen so many cases where there's one attorney who objects

250
00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:08.500
to everything.

251
00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:11.500
It's my role if I really want to have one objection

252
00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:14.500
the whole trial because to the jury an objection

253
00:15:14.500 --> 00:15:16.500
is me keeping evidence out.

254
00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:19.500
So if you always object, always object, always object.

255
00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:21.500
You're just signaling there's information I don't want you to hear.

256
00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:25.500
But if I have the confidence of knowing there's really one objection

257
00:15:25.500 --> 00:15:28.500
I know that's going to be material to my case.

258
00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:31.500
A way they know I've been there before.

259
00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:35.500
This is not something that's going to be making or breaking my case.

260
00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:37.500
It's all of credibility.

261
00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:40.500
If they don't trust me, they're not going to trust my client

262
00:15:40.500 --> 00:15:42.500
or my client's case.

263
00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.500
I think also it illuminates to me how much of a communication

264
00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:46.500
is non-verbal because in that example,

265
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:48.500
you're just talking about how they're watching your body language

266
00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:51.500
and how you've received something.

267
00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:54.500
And if you were defensive with all those objections

268
00:15:54.500 --> 00:15:58.500
or if you were defeated in the judges' ruling,

269
00:15:58.500 --> 00:16:02.500
that would work against you even though it's really nothing was set.

270
00:16:02.500 --> 00:16:04.500
Like nothing significant was said.

271
00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:08.500
Yeah, it's a balance of knowing,

272
00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:14.500
am I going to choose to react because of personal ego

273
00:16:14.500 --> 00:16:17.500
if I didn't get my way or am I having the better mindset

274
00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:20.500
of I'm advocating on behalf of my client.

275
00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:23.500
Like I've been, let's say you're a witness

276
00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:27.500
and you're opposed to me and I'm asking you a question.

277
00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:30.500
And I think you said something that's contrary to the evidence

278
00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:32.500
that I have right here.

279
00:16:32.500 --> 00:16:33.500
Rather than me getting messed up.

280
00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:35.500
Are you sure about that Mr. Barlow?

281
00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:37.500
Let me go, you know, I have this piece of paper here

282
00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:38.500
and I get really worked up.

283
00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:40.500
Versus me putting, you said something

284
00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:42.500
and I put my hand on the paper.

285
00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:44.500
I said, you sure?

286
00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:47.500
Like all of a sudden it's a moment of,

287
00:16:47.500 --> 00:16:49.500
it kind of peaks their interest of like what's happening.

288
00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:51.500
Oh, this attorney knows.

289
00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:54.500
This attorney is somebody who's confident

290
00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:58.500
and has this what I call in the pocket presence.

291
00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:00.500
I'm not trying to be too forward.

292
00:17:00.500 --> 00:17:01.500
I'm not trying to be too back.

293
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:03.500
I'm just in the pocket like a jazz band.

294
00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:06.500
Like everybody is on, everybody's on beat

295
00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:08.500
and so I'm not rushing.

296
00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:09.500
I'm not slowing down.

297
00:17:09.500 --> 00:17:10.500
I'm just writing the pocket.

298
00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:11.500
In the pocket.

299
00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:13.500
Is that what people call aura?

300
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:14.500
Swagger.

301
00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:15.500
Maybe there's some people call it.

302
00:17:15.500 --> 00:17:16.500
Yeah, aura.

303
00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:19.500
You could have it for anything in any context.

304
00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:20.500
I like to say in the pocket

305
00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:25.500
because it just reminds me of the right timing is my timing

306
00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:30.500
and that is I'm going to match how I need to be

307
00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:33.500
of what's most authentic, what's most genuine to me.

308
00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:35.500
If you were to ask me to read something really fast,

309
00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:36.500
it wouldn't sound that great

310
00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:39.500
because that's not my personality.

311
00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:41.500
And so I'll find out that I am acting

312
00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:44.500
and speaking in accordance with the values that I hold

313
00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:47.500
and I'm saying everybody here is just visiting.

314
00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:49.500
This is, I've been here before.

315
00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:51.500
Let me, y'all don't know where to go.

316
00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:52.500
Let me show you.

317
00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:55.500
And I have that kind of mentality.

318
00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:58.500
People will listen to you forever.

319
00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.500
They'll find that attractive as saying,

320
00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:02.500
how does this person know where they're going?

321
00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:04.500
I can follow them.

322
00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:07.500
It's natural leadership to speak in a way

323
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.500
that says, I know where I'm going.

324
00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:10.500
I've been here before.

325
00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:12.500
I think that's probably good advice for people

326
00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:15.500
who have important meetings or are going on dates.

327
00:18:15.500 --> 00:18:16.500
Yeah.

328
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:17.500
To maybe get there ahead of time

329
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:19.500
and familiarize yourself with the location.

330
00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:20.500
Yes.

331
00:18:20.500 --> 00:18:22.500
Just so you, you know, you don't have the added anxiety

332
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:25.500
of like stumbling through the physical environment.

333
00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:27.500
Like looking for the thing or trying to find the toilet

334
00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:28.500
or exactly what I don't know.

335
00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:30.500
Trying to figure out how to make the PowerPoint presentation

336
00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:32.500
ad drop onto the screen and all those kinds of things

337
00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:34.500
which you've all seen before.

338
00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:35.500
Yeah.

339
00:18:35.500 --> 00:18:37.500
I always, anytime I go to speak,

340
00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.500
I spoke this past week in Santa Barbara.

341
00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:43.500
I went ahead of time before my speaking time to go.

342
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:45.500
I want to see what the room looks like.

343
00:18:45.500 --> 00:18:48.500
I want to see how can I touch and say hi

344
00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:50.500
to the people that are working in a V.

345
00:18:50.500 --> 00:18:51.500
How can I meet them?

346
00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:53.500
How can I, if you really want to be better

347
00:18:53.500 --> 00:18:55.500
as a professional speaker, talk to people

348
00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:57.500
in the crowd before you speak?

349
00:18:57.500 --> 00:18:58.500
Get to know people's names.

350
00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:01.500
It's going to naturally lower you.

351
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:02.500
Get to know their names.

352
00:19:02.500 --> 00:19:03.500
Ask them why they're here.

353
00:19:03.500 --> 00:19:05.500
Say I'm so thankful that you're here.

354
00:19:05.500 --> 00:19:06.500
I'm really looking forward to the message

355
00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:07.500
and getting to talk to you today.

356
00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:10.500
When you, when you can go in and touch people,

357
00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:13.500
it's a different sense than if I'm going into a room

358
00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:16.500
totally cold because you don't really have the vibe.

359
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:17.500
You don't really know how that is.

360
00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:19.500
So yeah, going into a restaurant ahead of time,

361
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:20.500
that's great.

362
00:19:20.500 --> 00:19:22.500
Not bringing your phone even better.

363
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:24.500
You know, getting able to be a sense

364
00:19:24.500 --> 00:19:26.500
of knowing...

365
00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:28.500
I've been here before.

366
00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:30.500
I want to welcome you to my space.

367
00:19:30.500 --> 00:19:33.500
When we talk about people that have aura,

368
00:19:33.500 --> 00:19:35.500
you must have met a lot of people in your career

369
00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:36.500
and your life generally that.

370
00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:38.500
You felt had a sense of aura.

371
00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:39.500
Yes.

372
00:19:39.500 --> 00:19:41.500
What was it about them?

373
00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:43.500
That gave them that aura.

374
00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:44.500
What is it?

375
00:19:44.500 --> 00:19:50.500
It's a frequency of peace for me.

376
00:19:50.500 --> 00:19:52.500
I think of people...

377
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:54.500
And you think of people in your life

378
00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:58.500
who you have felt most comfortable with.

379
00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:01.500
The person you feel like I can just be myself.

380
00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:03.500
I can finally let everything down.

381
00:20:03.500 --> 00:20:06.500
And for me, it was my grandparents' house.

382
00:20:06.500 --> 00:20:09.500
As soon as I walk in, it's a different feeling

383
00:20:09.500 --> 00:20:12.500
of time kind of stand still.

384
00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:13.500
They want to know about me.

385
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:16.500
They want to know how am I doing.

386
00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:18.500
It's that feeling.

387
00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:21.500
I could talk about people who seem like they have aura

388
00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:24.500
and they just have a glow about them.

389
00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:26.500
It's usually of...

390
00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:29.500
They're not trying to prove anything to anybody.

391
00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:32.500
They just naturally exude that kind of charisma

392
00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:36.500
because of the security of knowing who they are

393
00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:38.500
and what they can do.

394
00:20:38.500 --> 00:20:40.500
And I guess what's the opposite of that then?

395
00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:42.500
Sometimes it's easier to understand something

396
00:20:42.500 --> 00:20:44.500
by understanding the opposite.

397
00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:46.500
What would that look like?

398
00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:48.500
I would say that...

399
00:20:48.500 --> 00:20:52.500
People, authentic aura, as you said,

400
00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:55.500
doesn't come from people

401
00:20:55.500 --> 00:20:57.500
securing themselves to you.

402
00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:00.500
That's for insecure people.

403
00:21:00.500 --> 00:21:03.500
The people who are authentic know that

404
00:21:03.500 --> 00:21:06.500
I am good exactly where I'm at.

405
00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:07.500
Oh, you want to rush?

406
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:09.500
I'm really no rush.

407
00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:11.500
What happens today happens today.

408
00:21:11.500 --> 00:21:13.500
Is it really due today?

409
00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:16.500
Or it could have been done tomorrow if I had to.

410
00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:18.500
If it's a slower pace,

411
00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:21.500
I find that there is so much kind of

412
00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:24.500
what they call cowboy wisdom on these kind of things

413
00:21:24.500 --> 00:21:25.500
where...

414
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.500
And I'm from Texas in the South.

415
00:21:27.500 --> 00:21:29.500
So it's kind of this...

416
00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:31.500
Knowing that the right time will come

417
00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:33.500
when that time is right

418
00:21:33.500 --> 00:21:35.500
and not having to push that.

419
00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:37.500
So if you want to look at the opposite,

420
00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:41.500
the opposite of aura is insecure.

421
00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:43.500
It's name dropping.

422
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:45.500
It's having to be friends immediately.

423
00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:48.500
It's having to prove to you how much money I have.

424
00:21:48.500 --> 00:21:52.500
Or it's everything else...

425
00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:56.500
Being everything to everybody else except myself.

426
00:21:56.500 --> 00:21:58.500
People who have a sense of style,

427
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:00.500
their own sense of style,

428
00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:01.500
naturally have an aura.

429
00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:03.500
Why? Because they don't care what in the world.

430
00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:04.500
Anybody else is wearing...

431
00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:06.500
This is what I like.

432
00:22:06.500 --> 00:22:07.500
My daughter.

433
00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:08.500
Alright, she's six.

434
00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:11.500
We try setting out clothes.

435
00:22:11.500 --> 00:22:12.500
Forget it.

436
00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:15.500
She can come down in a leopard print 2-2

437
00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:17.500
and her sunglasses and whatever she wants.

438
00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:18.500
And you know what?

439
00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:20.500
She thinks she's the flyest thing in the world.

440
00:22:20.500 --> 00:22:22.500
I mean, that's...

441
00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:24.500
I never want to take that out of her.

442
00:22:24.500 --> 00:22:26.500
The people who have a sense of fashion,

443
00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:28.500
the sense of who I am.

444
00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:30.500
And they didn't have to look cool to anybody.

445
00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:31.500
Social standard.

446
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:34.500
But do they really care what anybody else thinks?

447
00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:37.500
Usually people with aura do not.

448
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:42.500
And sometimes when you come up again...

449
00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:44.500
I mean, we were talking before we started recording

450
00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:47.500
about since this book's publication,

451
00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:49.500
what have been people saying to you?

452
00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:52.500
And what are the chapters that stood out the most to people?

453
00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:54.500
And you mentioned that it tends to be things

454
00:22:54.500 --> 00:22:56.500
around dealing with difficult conversations,

455
00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:58.500
dealing with difficult people.

456
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:01.500
And one of the phrases that's been arguably overused

457
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:03.500
a lot in society is this phrase,

458
00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:04.500
gas lighting.

459
00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:05.500
Yeah.

460
00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:08.500
And the definition of gas lighting that I managed to pull was

461
00:23:08.500 --> 00:23:10.500
gas lighting is psychological manipulation

462
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:12.500
where one person purposefully lies or manipulates the other

463
00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:16.500
to make them doubt their own reality, memory, or sanity.

464
00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:17.500
Mm-hmm.

465
00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:19.500
Do people talk to you about gas lighting a lot?

466
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.500
Yes.

467
00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:21.500
Now that you've written this book.

468
00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:22.500
Yes.

469
00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:23.500
And what do you think gas lighting is?

470
00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:25.500
It's one of those things that's been used so often

471
00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:27.500
that we almost have to like pause for a second just to define it again?

472
00:23:27.500 --> 00:23:28.500
Yes.

473
00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:29.500
Let me put it this way.

474
00:23:29.500 --> 00:23:33.500
The difference between gas lighting and lying.

475
00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:36.500
Lying is a surface level of...

476
00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:39.500
Mm-hmm.

477
00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:41.500
I could tell you instead of having a silver cup,

478
00:23:41.500 --> 00:23:42.500
this is a red cup.

479
00:23:42.500 --> 00:23:44.500
Well, that would be a lie.

480
00:23:44.500 --> 00:23:50.500
Gas lighting is I'm trying to alter your reality into mine.

481
00:23:50.500 --> 00:23:54.500
I'm trying to make you question how other people perceive you,

482
00:23:54.500 --> 00:23:55.500
including myself.

483
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:57.500
How you perceive yourself.

484
00:23:57.500 --> 00:24:00.500
If anybody's ever questioned, am I crazy?

485
00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:01.500
Am I the crazy one?

486
00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:03.500
Is it me?

487
00:24:03.500 --> 00:24:04.500
Is it everybody?

488
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:08.500
Most likely you're probably being gas-led.

489
00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:10.500
And here's the truth.

490
00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:12.500
I've been the gas lighter.

491
00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:14.500
Everybody has been the gas lighter.

492
00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:16.500
Whether they intentionally know it or not.

493
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:21.500
Because it's all that feeling of preservation, of defensiveness,

494
00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:26.500
of I don't want people to know the truth of what's happening in my life.

495
00:24:26.500 --> 00:24:28.500
So I'm going to mislead.

496
00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:32.500
And gas lighting, the intent, is to alter your reality,

497
00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:37.500
to make you question what is real and what is not.

498
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.500
So I might do something wrong, and then I might come home,

499
00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:42.500
and know that I've done something wrong,

500
00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:45.500
and intentionally try and sell my partner a version of reality

501
00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:47.500
that makes them fundamentally question what they know,

502
00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:52.500
to try and spare me the critique or to control them.

503
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:54.500
Yes, to protect yourself.

504
00:24:54.500 --> 00:24:56.500
It's self-preservation.

505
00:24:56.500 --> 00:24:59.500
Say, let's say you and your partner had come home from a dinner,

506
00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:02.500
and you're just in a very critical mood.

507
00:25:02.500 --> 00:25:05.500
And maybe you're trying to distract from something else

508
00:25:05.500 --> 00:25:07.500
that's going on in your life.

509
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.500
And you're being critical of a story that she shared at dinner.

510
00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:14.500
And you're like, why would you ever say that?

511
00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:15.500
And she goes, everything was fine.

512
00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:16.500
You're like, fine.

513
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:17.500
No, it was not.

514
00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:19.500
Did you not see how they reacted?

515
00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:20.500
No, no, no, no.

516
00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:23.500
Listen, I know you don't want to hear this,

517
00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:28.500
but everybody feels that you're a little bit much.

518
00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:31.500
And I'm the one that needs to tell you this.

519
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:33.500
You say how all of a sudden,

520
00:25:33.500 --> 00:25:36.500
I start to alter how she feels in that moment.

521
00:25:36.500 --> 00:25:38.500
And I've seen the other side of that.

522
00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:43.500
And it is not at all something that you can come back from

523
00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:48.500
without serious relationship work to be able to find a way

524
00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:51.500
to say, okay, what's how are we really walking in truth?

525
00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:55.500
Because you get so far away from radical honesty and conversation.

526
00:25:55.500 --> 00:25:59.500
So gaslighting is not something to be taken lightly,

527
00:25:59.500 --> 00:26:02.500
but I will say people often apply to the wrong thing.

528
00:26:02.500 --> 00:26:05.500
They'll use it as a sense of saying,

529
00:26:05.500 --> 00:26:08.500
you're saying something I don't like, so you're gaslighting me.

530
00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:09.500
You know, we're in an argument

531
00:26:09.500 --> 00:26:11.500
and you're pointing out something that hurt your feelings

532
00:26:11.500 --> 00:26:12.500
or that's gaslighting.

533
00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:15.500
And they use it as an excuse.

534
00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:17.500
It's almost the form of gaslighting.

535
00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:18.500
Exactly.

536
00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:19.500
That's exactly right.

537
00:26:20.500 --> 00:26:22.500
In a weird way, it can reverse that way.

538
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:24.500
But imagine me saying something hurtful to you

539
00:26:24.500 --> 00:26:25.500
and you go, that really hurt my feelings.

540
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:27.500
I go, well, that's just my boundary.

541
00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:28.500
I just have a boundary about everything.

542
00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:30.500
Or you're just gaslighting me.

543
00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:33.500
I've never met somebody who talked about their X

544
00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:36.500
without saying my narcissistic X.

545
00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:38.500
I finally just got out of a narcissistic relationship.

546
00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.500
It's never us.

547
00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:42.500
It's always the other person.

548
00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:45.500
And so there's these words that we can pepper,

549
00:26:45.500 --> 00:26:47.500
insult, and the sentences

550
00:26:47.500 --> 00:26:49.500
that are also still another form.

551
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:51.500
If we look at it, a former self-preservation.

552
00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:52.500
Look at all their bad.

553
00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:53.500
And don't look at my.

554
00:26:53.500 --> 00:26:56.500
Why is it important that we don't gaslight others?

555
00:26:56.500 --> 00:26:57.500
And I asked this question

556
00:26:57.500 --> 00:26:59.500
because everybody listening now

557
00:26:59.500 --> 00:27:01.500
is probably going to want the answer to the question,

558
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:03.500
which is, what do I do about a gaslighter?

559
00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:06.500
But again, this is avoiding the responsibility

560
00:27:06.500 --> 00:27:09.500
that we all have a tendency

561
00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:11.500
or at some point in our life

562
00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:12.500
have gaslighted somebody else.

563
00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:14.500
And, you know,

564
00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:16.500
I don't think my audience is just

565
00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:18.500
the gaslighted.

566
00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:19.500
You know, like,

567
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.500
statistically, clearly,

568
00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:22.500
you're also all the gaslighters.

569
00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:23.500
Right.

570
00:27:23.500 --> 00:27:25.500
So how do,

571
00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:27.500
why is it important that we don't gaslight other people?

572
00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:29.500
And is there a way for us to avoid,

573
00:27:29.500 --> 00:27:31.500
you know, getting into a situation

574
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:32.500
where our backs against the wall

575
00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:34.500
and we end up gaslighting someone?

576
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:37.500
It's important not to gaslight somebody

577
00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:39.500
because every time you do,

578
00:27:39.500 --> 00:27:42.500
you're removing yourself further

579
00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:44.500
further from the truth.

580
00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:46.500
The truth of how you feel.

581
00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:48.500
The truth of your relationship.

582
00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:51.500
You are withholding reality

583
00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:52.500
from that other person,

584
00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:55.500
rather than having radical honesty

585
00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:57.500
about what's happening.

586
00:27:57.500 --> 00:27:59.500
So it degrades the relationship.

587
00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:01.500
It degrades another person so forth.

588
00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:02.500
And in many ways,

589
00:28:02.500 --> 00:28:07.500
gaslighting steals their reality.

590
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:09.500
It's not something you can give back

591
00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:11.500
without a lot of work.

592
00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:13.500
It's taking, in some sense.

593
00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:16.500
Now, it can be absolutely intentional

594
00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:18.500
and it can also be unintentional

595
00:28:18.500 --> 00:28:21.500
as a form of self-preservation.

596
00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:23.500
And if you feel like you are being

597
00:28:23.500 --> 00:28:25.500
gaslit,

598
00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:27.500
the secret to knowing

599
00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:30.500
is slowing down the conversation.

600
00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:34.500
If I am staying still

601
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:36.500
in the conversation, meaning

602
00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:38.500
you could say something to me

603
00:28:38.500 --> 00:28:40.500
that's a form of gaslighting.

604
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:41.500
You make me question,

605
00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:42.500
oh my goodness.

606
00:28:42.500 --> 00:28:43.500
I really say that.

607
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:44.500
I really hurt their feelings.

608
00:28:44.500 --> 00:28:45.500
Did I?

609
00:28:45.500 --> 00:28:47.500
And getting to my head.

610
00:28:47.500 --> 00:28:49.500
And I start kind of jumping around

611
00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:51.500
and trying to change what I did.

612
00:28:51.500 --> 00:28:53.500
But if I were to say,

613
00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:55.500
Stephen, I remember that differently.

614
00:28:55.500 --> 00:28:58.500
And that's where I stop.

615
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:00.500
Then you can try other things

616
00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:02.500
and I'm going to repeat,

617
00:29:02.500 --> 00:29:04.500
yeah, I remember that differently.

618
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:07.500
It's standing in the truth of what you know

619
00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:09.500
rather than being concerned

620
00:29:09.500 --> 00:29:11.500
in misled

621
00:29:11.500 --> 00:29:13.500
by giving someone the reins

622
00:29:13.500 --> 00:29:15.500
and the leash to drag you around.

623
00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:18.500
And if I think about,

624
00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:20.500
I think it's thinking about all the times

625
00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:22.500
where I think I might have gaslit someone,

626
00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:24.500
you know, in relationships

627
00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:26.500
or backs against the wall

628
00:29:26.500 --> 00:29:29.500
and you're having an argument with someone or...

629
00:29:29.500 --> 00:29:31.500
It's quite difficult in my head to know the difference

630
00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:32.500
between the word,

631
00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:34.500
like just saying something that isn't necessarily true

632
00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:36.500
or is your perception of things

633
00:29:36.500 --> 00:29:38.500
versus gaslighting.

634
00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:41.500
Is the difference in your mind intention?

635
00:29:41.500 --> 00:29:44.500
Like if I give my version of reality

636
00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:46.500
up, we were at that party,

637
00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:47.500
you said this thing,

638
00:29:47.500 --> 00:29:48.500
I saw the person roll their eyes

639
00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:49.500
and then they walked away,

640
00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:50.500
I think they're really offended,

641
00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:51.500
I think you offended them.

642
00:29:51.500 --> 00:29:52.500
Right.

643
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:53.500
What's the difference between that

644
00:29:53.500 --> 00:29:55.500
and me gaslighting someone?

645
00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:57.500
Of between lying and gaslighting?

646
00:29:57.500 --> 00:29:58.500
Or it's...

647
00:29:58.500 --> 00:29:59.500
Yeah, like I'm trying to understand

648
00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:00.500
in that context,

649
00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:01.500
you gave about going to a party

650
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:03.500
and something and then they woke up.

651
00:30:03.500 --> 00:30:04.500
What's the difference between

652
00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:06.500
if that's how you saw reality

653
00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:07.500
and you're communicating it

654
00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:09.500
versus gaslighting someone?

655
00:30:09.500 --> 00:30:10.500
To the intention.

656
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:11.500
It's the intention.

657
00:30:11.500 --> 00:30:12.500
And the intention is,

658
00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:14.500
I'm the one in control,

659
00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:15.500
not you.

660
00:30:15.500 --> 00:30:16.500
Okay.

661
00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:19.500
So you are trying to control the narrative.

662
00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:22.500
You are trying to be both director producer and actor.

663
00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:24.500
Full your own agenda.

664
00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:25.500
That's right, for your own film.

665
00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:26.500
And for control.

666
00:30:26.500 --> 00:30:28.500
I'm the character in my own movie.

667
00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:29.500
Hi, I'm the main character.

668
00:30:29.500 --> 00:30:33.500
And you need to behave this way.

669
00:30:33.500 --> 00:30:35.500
You need to believe this.

670
00:30:35.500 --> 00:30:37.500
You need to act upon that.

671
00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:40.500
And so the more I can try to

672
00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:43.500
manipulate that reality,

673
00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:46.500
and what's so wild is

674
00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:47.500
it becomes so manipulated

675
00:30:47.500 --> 00:30:49.500
that you believe it too.

676
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:51.500
Now that falsehood

677
00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:53.500
has now become your fact,

678
00:30:53.500 --> 00:30:54.500
in some sense,

679
00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:56.500
that the really good liars

680
00:30:56.500 --> 00:30:57.500
convince themselves

681
00:30:57.500 --> 00:31:00.500
that that lie is the truth.

682
00:31:00.500 --> 00:31:01.500
Is there a certain type of person

683
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:02.500
that's more susceptible

684
00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:03.500
to being gaslit,

685
00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:05.500
or to being victimized

686
00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:06.500
in any way with conversation,

687
00:31:06.500 --> 00:31:07.500
in your view?

688
00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:08.500
Anxious attachment.

689
00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:09.500
The ones that are...

690
00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:11.500
They...

691
00:31:11.500 --> 00:31:13.500
people who can't regulate

692
00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:15.500
by themselves, they have to co-regulate.

693
00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:17.500
Meaning...

694
00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:19.500
Most of the time,

695
00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:20.500
men are...

696
00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:22.500
we're good self-regulators.

697
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:24.500
Just give me some time

698
00:31:24.500 --> 00:31:25.500
by myself.

699
00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:27.500
Give me an evening.

700
00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:29.500
Give me an hour.

701
00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:30.500
Let me walk outside out,

702
00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:33.500
and I'll regulate myself.

703
00:31:33.500 --> 00:31:34.500
Most of the time,

704
00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:35.500
it's been my experience,

705
00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:36.500
women are not like that.

706
00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:38.500
They co-regulate most of them.

707
00:31:38.500 --> 00:31:40.500
They need you

708
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:42.500
to also make them feel good.

709
00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:43.500
They can't be good

710
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:44.500
if you're not good.

711
00:31:44.500 --> 00:31:45.500
We're not good.

712
00:31:45.500 --> 00:31:46.500
I'm not good

713
00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:48.500
if you're not okay.

714
00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:49.500
So it's that whole...

715
00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:51.500
I'm not okay if you're not okay.

716
00:31:51.500 --> 00:31:52.500
And so,

717
00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:53.500
in many ways,

718
00:31:53.500 --> 00:31:54.500
they need you

719
00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:57.500
to be able to calm down themselves.

720
00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:00.500
And they don't self-regulate as well.

721
00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:02.500
And so,

722
00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:04.500
the people who are most susceptible

723
00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:05.500
to gaslighting

724
00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:07.500
are ones who need co-regulation.

725
00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:09.500
People who are anxious,

726
00:32:09.500 --> 00:32:11.500
anxious attachment.

727
00:32:11.500 --> 00:32:13.500
Meaning they need...

728
00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:14.500
Are you okay?

729
00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:15.500
Are you good?

730
00:32:15.500 --> 00:32:16.500
You need anything?

731
00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:18.500
Are you sure you're not okay?

732
00:32:18.500 --> 00:32:19.500
And,

733
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:21.500
versus the people who are more avoidant.

734
00:32:21.500 --> 00:32:22.500
And three,

735
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:23.500
the people who are...

736
00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:24.500
are typically more insecure.

737
00:32:24.500 --> 00:32:25.500
So do you think women

738
00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:26.500
get gaslit more than men?

739
00:32:26.500 --> 00:32:27.500
Yes.

740
00:32:29.500 --> 00:32:31.500
But women still gaslit women, right?

741
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:32.500
Of course.

742
00:32:32.500 --> 00:32:33.500
But just men and women...

743
00:32:33.500 --> 00:32:35.500
When you're talking relationships,

744
00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:36.500
when you're talking relationships,

745
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:37.500
that's my personal opinion,

746
00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:38.500
is because

747
00:32:38.500 --> 00:32:39.500
from my feedback,

748
00:32:39.500 --> 00:32:41.500
from the people that have

749
00:32:41.500 --> 00:32:42.500
read my book

750
00:32:42.500 --> 00:32:44.500
and the people who give me feedback on my book,

751
00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:45.500
yeah,

752
00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:47.500
it's majority, vast majority

753
00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:48.500
are women.

754
00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:49.500
I'm not saying that's

755
00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:51.500
some empirical study on it.

756
00:32:51.500 --> 00:32:53.500
But what I will say is

757
00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:55.500
women are just

758
00:32:55.500 --> 00:32:57.500
as capable of

759
00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:00.500
gaslighting

760
00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:01.500
and women,

761
00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:02.500
can certainly gaslight women.

762
00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:04.500
And it's...

763
00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:05.500
I'm saying this

764
00:33:05.500 --> 00:33:07.500
with a mindset of

765
00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:09.500
everybody gaslights,

766
00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:10.500
whether they know it or not

767
00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:11.500
and they have in the past,

768
00:33:11.500 --> 00:33:12.500
most likely they can think

769
00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:13.500
of a time in the past

770
00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:14.500
where they did,

771
00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:16.500
without knowing it.

772
00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:17.500
But it is...

773
00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:18.500
That would be my opinion

774
00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:20.500
that most of the time,

775
00:33:20.500 --> 00:33:22.500
men are the ones that do it to women.

776
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:23.500
It's reading some research here

777
00:33:23.500 --> 00:33:24.500
that says,

778
00:33:24.500 --> 00:33:25.500
women are emotional abuse

779
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:26.500
in heterosexual relationships.

780
00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:27.500
Show women report

781
00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:28.500
higher rates of gaslighting

782
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:29.500
in coercive control

783
00:33:29.500 --> 00:33:31.500
than men.

784
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:32.500
Men do report gaslighting too,

785
00:33:32.500 --> 00:33:33.500
but less frequently

786
00:33:33.500 --> 00:33:35.500
and usually in different forms.

787
00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:36.500
And it...

788
00:33:36.500 --> 00:33:38.500
as it relates to workplace data,

789
00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:39.500
surveys from management

790
00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:40.500
and organizational psychology show,

791
00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:41.500
women are more likely

792
00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:42.500
to have their competence questioned,

793
00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:44.500
their memory doubted,

794
00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:47.500
or their experience dismissed.

795
00:33:47.500 --> 00:33:49.500
Women in male-dominated fields

796
00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:50.500
report the highest rates

797
00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:51.500
of gaslighting

798
00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:52.500
and women of color

799
00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:53.500
report even higher rates

800
00:33:53.500 --> 00:33:54.500
of being told

801
00:33:54.500 --> 00:33:55.500
that perception is wrong

802
00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:56.500
or misinterpret

803
00:33:56.500 --> 00:34:00.500
or that they're misinterpreting things.

804
00:34:00.500 --> 00:34:03.500
Sounds like that tracks.

805
00:34:03.500 --> 00:34:04.500
And also in medical settings,

806
00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:05.500
women are less likely

807
00:34:05.500 --> 00:34:06.500
to be believed

808
00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:08.500
about their symptoms.

809
00:34:08.500 --> 00:34:10.500
Women's pain is underestimated.

810
00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:11.500
Women get later diagnoses

811
00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:12.500
for multiple conditions

812
00:34:12.500 --> 00:34:13.500
like heart disease

813
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:14.500
and autoimmune disorders

814
00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:15.500
ADHD and autism.

815
00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:18.500
And the list goes on and on and on.

816
00:34:18.500 --> 00:34:19.500
If I had to say,

817
00:34:19.500 --> 00:34:21.500
who does more?

818
00:34:21.500 --> 00:34:22.500
I'm not trying to put

819
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:24.500
some kind of headline

820
00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:27.500
of men do it more than women.

821
00:34:27.500 --> 00:34:28.500
In my experience,

822
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:30.500
it tends to be the guy.

823
00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:34.500
And what is that information show me?

824
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:38.500
It shows me that that sounds about right.

825
00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:39.500
I do think

826
00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:41.500
from the people that follow my content,

827
00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:42.500
listen to my content

828
00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:44.500
because I stay very connected

829
00:34:44.500 --> 00:34:48.500
to my community of so many women say,

830
00:34:48.500 --> 00:34:49.500
I feel like I'm in this workplace

831
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:50.500
and they are doubting my competence.

832
00:34:51.500 --> 00:34:53.500
They're doubting my ability to make decisions.

833
00:34:53.500 --> 00:34:55.500
I'm not being believed.

834
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:57.500
I'm putting, I'm being put down.

835
00:34:57.500 --> 00:34:59.500
Whether it's not even their experience,

836
00:34:59.500 --> 00:35:02.500
it's just because of their gender.

837
00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:04.500
And those are real,

838
00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:05.500
those are real questions.

839
00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:07.500
Does that mean that that's gaslighting?

840
00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:09.500
Probably not all the time.

841
00:35:09.500 --> 00:35:11.500
But for me to say,

842
00:35:11.500 --> 00:35:13.500
that's a dumb complaint.

843
00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:15.500
You know, that's just complaining.

844
00:35:15.500 --> 00:35:16.500
In many ways,

845
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:17.500
when you start denying that reality,

846
00:35:17.500 --> 00:35:19.500
then you have the same problem.

847
00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:22.500
You know, I've had thousands of people over the last decade.

848
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:25.500
And I have to say,

849
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:26.500
sometimes it's hard,

850
00:35:26.500 --> 00:35:27.500
it's difficult to understand

851
00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:28.500
the plight of someone else

852
00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:30.500
when you haven't lived their experience,

853
00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:32.500
like you haven't been a woman or whatever.

854
00:35:32.500 --> 00:35:33.500
It's impossible.

855
00:35:33.500 --> 00:35:34.500
It's very difficult.

856
00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:36.500
So you kind of just have to take them for their words sometimes

857
00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:37.500
if you've not lived it yourself.

858
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:39.500
Or you can look at data or whatever else.

859
00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:40.500
And I do have to say

860
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:44.500
that I have experienced male executives

861
00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:48.500
who were extremely dismissive

862
00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:50.500
of their female peers

863
00:35:50.500 --> 00:35:53.500
in a way that was 100% inconsistent

864
00:35:53.500 --> 00:35:55.500
as it relates to genders.

865
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:57.500
What I mean by that is

866
00:35:57.500 --> 00:35:59.500
I can think of several male executives over the years

867
00:35:59.500 --> 00:36:00.500
who I observed

868
00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:03.500
dismissing or diminishing

869
00:36:03.500 --> 00:36:06.500
or not giving the woman in the room the same credit

870
00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:09.500
really for no other reason than she was a woman.

871
00:36:09.500 --> 00:36:10.500
And so it's a very real thing.

872
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.500
And it's not every man,

873
00:36:11.500 --> 00:36:12.500
I have to say this.

874
00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:15.500
But there is a certain particular type of person

875
00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:18.500
who for some reason, in my experience,

876
00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:20.500
would see a woman in the workplace

877
00:36:20.500 --> 00:36:22.500
or in the high sort of uprashulums

878
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:24.500
of the professional environment

879
00:36:24.500 --> 00:36:27.500
as being less than them just because of her gender.

880
00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:29.500
So when I hear what you're saying

881
00:36:29.500 --> 00:36:31.500
about women are predominantly coming to you

882
00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:33.500
talking about these issues of gas lighting,

883
00:36:33.500 --> 00:36:35.500
it does kind of track with what I've seen.

884
00:36:35.500 --> 00:36:36.500
I'll tell you this.

885
00:36:36.500 --> 00:36:39.500
I've never had a man come to me in all this time.

886
00:36:39.500 --> 00:36:41.500
I've been from my book to my content.

887
00:36:41.500 --> 00:36:44.500
There's number of years ever say I think

888
00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:46.500
I'm being gashlit.

889
00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:48.500
It has always been the woman.

890
00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:49.500
Never.

891
00:36:49.500 --> 00:36:50.500
Never.

892
00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:52.500
What about the conversation around like dealing

893
00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:53.500
with narcissists?

894
00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:55.500
Because this feels like it's kind of one in the same.

895
00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:58.500
The words are used in the same sort of vernacular.

896
00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:00.500
But do you have men coming to you saying

897
00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:02.500
that I think my partner's a narcissist?

898
00:37:02.500 --> 00:37:03.500
Yes, you do.

899
00:37:03.500 --> 00:37:04.500
Yeah, that I do have.

900
00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:05.500
Yeah, it's always,

901
00:37:05.500 --> 00:37:07.500
it's always their married to one

902
00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:09.500
or just got out of a relationship with one.

903
00:37:09.500 --> 00:37:11.500
But it's never them.

904
00:37:11.500 --> 00:37:13.500
And what do you say to someone who's dealing with an artist

905
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:16.500
who is dealing with someone who repeatedly gashlights them?

906
00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:18.500
Let's say it's in the context of work.

907
00:37:18.500 --> 00:37:19.500
Yeah.

908
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:20.500
What are they meant to do?

909
00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:21.500
Quit their job.

910
00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:23.500
Well, that is an option.

911
00:37:23.500 --> 00:37:24.500
So let's not roll that out.

912
00:37:24.500 --> 00:37:25.500
Okay.

913
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:27.500
If it's worth it to you,

914
00:37:27.500 --> 00:37:30.500
because that's a question of what's your purpose here.

915
00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:32.500
And this is where you're going to be forever.

916
00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:35.500
Then there's some things we need to put in place.

917
00:37:35.500 --> 00:37:36.500
But what do you to do?

918
00:37:36.500 --> 00:37:38.500
You were to limit the interaction.

919
00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:40.500
Limit the exposure.

920
00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:42.500
Talk less.

921
00:37:42.500 --> 00:37:44.500
It's a neutral statement.

922
00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:46.500
So if you can,

923
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:48.500
many ways you can,

924
00:37:48.500 --> 00:37:51.500
just limit the amount of physicality of,

925
00:37:51.500 --> 00:37:52.500
I don't have to see you.

926
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:54.500
I don't have to communicate with you.

927
00:37:54.500 --> 00:37:56.500
I know you work three doors down,

928
00:37:56.500 --> 00:37:58.500
but I don't have to be your best friend.

929
00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:00.500
And you certainly don't have to be mine.

930
00:38:00.500 --> 00:38:03.500
Two is understanding the game that you're in.

931
00:38:03.500 --> 00:38:07.500
It's a game for narcissists of praise or provoke.

932
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:12.500
Meaning if I am not showering you with praise,

933
00:38:12.500 --> 00:38:14.500
then the narcissists will turn to provoke

934
00:38:14.500 --> 00:38:17.500
in order to create an argument.

935
00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:18.500
For the same effect,

936
00:38:18.500 --> 00:38:20.500
they delight in frustration,

937
00:38:20.500 --> 00:38:23.500
just as much as they delight in your praise.

938
00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:26.500
Because they get the same type of control.

939
00:38:26.500 --> 00:38:30.500
I've seen so many expert witnesses in my field

940
00:38:30.500 --> 00:38:32.500
that are, that what I would term,

941
00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:34.500
are narcissists.

942
00:38:34.500 --> 00:38:36.500
They can never possibly be wrong.

943
00:38:36.500 --> 00:38:39.500
They don't do empathy.

944
00:38:39.500 --> 00:38:42.500
And again, this is me with the understanding of,

945
00:38:42.500 --> 00:38:44.500
hey, we all have narcissistic tendencies.

946
00:38:44.500 --> 00:38:46.500
You know, we all have narcissistic traits.

947
00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:50.500
And narcissism is a diagnosable condition that you can have.

948
00:38:50.500 --> 00:38:54.500
I think more people would qualify more than they think.

949
00:38:54.500 --> 00:38:56.500
But how do you handle it day to day?

950
00:38:56.500 --> 00:38:58.500
Is knowing what kind of game you're in,

951
00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:00.500
and it's a game you're just not going to play.

952
00:39:00.500 --> 00:39:02.500
I know I don't have to say anything to that person.

953
00:39:02.500 --> 00:39:06.500
To them, I'm going to limit my distance to them.

954
00:39:06.500 --> 00:39:08.500
And three, I'm going to use neutral statements.

955
00:39:08.500 --> 00:39:10.500
I'm going to use neutral statements like,

956
00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:11.500
that's good to know.

957
00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:13.500
Thanks for sharing.

958
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:14.500
Noted.

959
00:39:14.500 --> 00:39:16.500
And things that they can't grab on to

960
00:39:16.500 --> 00:39:18.500
and continue to have on a conversation.

961
00:39:18.500 --> 00:39:22.500
When you think of like the hallmarks of a really, really,

962
00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:24.500
one of these types of people,

963
00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:28.500
what are the way the characteristics that I should be looking out for

964
00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:30.500
if I'm dealing with one such person

965
00:39:30.500 --> 00:39:32.500
who is going to try and manipulate me.

966
00:39:32.500 --> 00:39:34.500
It's going to try and gaslight me.

967
00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:36.500
What do they do?

968
00:39:36.500 --> 00:39:40.500
They can never be happy for anybody, but themselves.

969
00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:42.500
They can't be happy for you.

970
00:39:42.500 --> 00:39:44.500
They can't be happy for other people.

971
00:39:44.500 --> 00:39:46.500
These are the types that if you were to say,

972
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:48.500
hey, did you see that Steve and just got this award?

973
00:39:48.500 --> 00:39:49.500
Isn't that so great?

974
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:50.500
He's just nominated for whatever.

975
00:39:50.500 --> 00:39:52.500
And they go, I mean, that's, I guess that's fine.

976
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:56.500
You know, when I did this and they started talking about themselves,

977
00:39:56.500 --> 00:39:58.500
they can never be happy for somebody else.

978
00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:00.500
They can't be happy for you.

979
00:40:00.500 --> 00:40:04.500
They have to find some way to turn the conversation of

980
00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:08.500
why the world is so hard and so pitiful for them

981
00:40:08.500 --> 00:40:10.500
that the world is against them and they couldn't get it,

982
00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:12.500
but they were just as deserving.

983
00:40:12.500 --> 00:40:14.500
I mean, I guess that's fine.

984
00:40:14.500 --> 00:40:16.500
I mean, you know, I do this, but nobody listens.

985
00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:18.500
Nobody really cares.

986
00:40:18.500 --> 00:40:20.500
They find that they have a very victim mentality.

987
00:40:20.500 --> 00:40:22.500
The two is a victim mentality.

988
00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:24.500
Everything happens to them in some way.

989
00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:26.500
And three, they can't feel for other people.

990
00:40:26.500 --> 00:40:29.500
They don't do emotion.

991
00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:34.500
It's always about the perception of what others would think.

992
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:39.500
They're very, very sensitive to how others might portray them.

993
00:40:39.500 --> 00:40:43.500
So they're going to give you a different view than they give other people.

994
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:46.500
And so the couple might be terrible.

995
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:50.500
But for a narcissist, they're going to put on face

996
00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:52.500
that the relationship is perfect to everybody else.

997
00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:55.500
And everybody goes, you must be so blessed to be married to that person.

998
00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:57.500
You're going, you kidding me?

999
00:40:57.500 --> 00:40:59.500
They're fooling everybody.

1000
00:40:59.500 --> 00:41:01.500
And it's a very helpless position.

1001
00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:03.500
Have you ever had a narcissist try and prune you?

1002
00:41:03.500 --> 00:41:05.500
Yeah.

1003
00:41:05.500 --> 00:41:07.500
Yeah, I'm in the legal field, man.

1004
00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:12.500
Expert witnesses have opinions to them that are unquestionable.

1005
00:41:12.500 --> 00:41:13.500
You can't.

1006
00:41:13.500 --> 00:41:16.500
This is their opinion and nobody else could ever argue with it.

1007
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:19.500
When I have another expert who says just the opposite.

1008
00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:23.500
So a lot of the times they are very condescending.

1009
00:41:23.500 --> 00:41:25.500
You know, that's fine.

1010
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:28.500
And they have their opinion and this is all there is.

1011
00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:31.500
And how dumb of you to ever question me.

1012
00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:36.500
And usually what gives it away is if I feel like this is somebody that,

1013
00:41:36.500 --> 00:41:38.500
okay, they can't be reasonable.

1014
00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:41.500
They're never going to give an inch on what's reasonable.

1015
00:41:41.500 --> 00:41:43.500
I will ask this.

1016
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:45.500
I'll say, this is typically in a deposition.

1017
00:41:45.500 --> 00:41:48.500
I'll say, and you think the jury is going to like that.

1018
00:41:48.500 --> 00:41:51.500
Or you think other people are going to agree with you.

1019
00:41:51.500 --> 00:41:55.500
And all of a sudden they kind of change in an instant to be able to match

1020
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.500
what the jury is going to think.

1021
00:41:57.500 --> 00:42:00.500
So if I were to say, and you think, and you think that's okay,

1022
00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:02.500
and you think others are going to find that okay,

1023
00:42:02.500 --> 00:42:04.500
and you think that the jury, when they hear this,

1024
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:09.500
they're all going to agree with this very hard line of opinion.

1025
00:42:09.500 --> 00:42:14.500
I've seen it every time, or they, that's, it's only when I reference other people.

1026
00:42:14.500 --> 00:42:17.500
The presentation of themselves to other people,

1027
00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:20.500
that they kind of put on a show.

1028
00:42:21.500 --> 00:42:28.500
Because they know that the perception of the crowd is everything.

1029
00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:32.500
They need everybody to like them, to fawn over them.

1030
00:42:32.500 --> 00:42:35.500
They want their idea to be the best.

1031
00:42:35.500 --> 00:42:38.500
And so they will manipulate the situation, to be the chameleon,

1032
00:42:38.500 --> 00:42:41.500
to make sure that everybody loves them,

1033
00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:43.500
at least in their mind.

1034
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:46.500
It's not a reasonable thought.

1035
00:42:46.500 --> 00:42:48.500
So they will typically change their opinion,

1036
00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:50.500
to sound more palatable,

1037
00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:52.500
even though they could have admitted to that,

1038
00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:54.500
you know, two hours into the deposition.

1039
00:42:54.500 --> 00:42:57.500
Did they tend to talk more or less than the average person in the room?

1040
00:42:57.500 --> 00:42:59.500
Much more.

1041
00:42:59.500 --> 00:43:03.500
Is there a thin line between just being insecure and being an narcissist?

1042
00:43:03.500 --> 00:43:05.500
Because, you know, one of the things I was thinking about,

1043
00:43:05.500 --> 00:43:08.500
you said earlier, that they tend to bring everything back to themselves.

1044
00:43:08.500 --> 00:43:10.500
And I was thinking about all the people that I know,

1045
00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:13.500
that if we were having a conversation about your book doing really, really well,

1046
00:43:14.500 --> 00:43:18.500
the first response to that would be their mention of their own book.

1047
00:43:18.500 --> 00:43:20.500
Like they would immediately bring it straight back to something about them,

1048
00:43:20.500 --> 00:43:22.500
and I was wondering, some of those people I just have in the category

1049
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:24.500
of just being a little bit insecure.

1050
00:43:24.500 --> 00:43:27.500
And that they just, you know, they're a search for validation.

1051
00:43:27.500 --> 00:43:31.500
So I'm wondering where you think the line might be between sort of narcissistic behavior

1052
00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:33.500
and just like extremely insecure.

1053
00:43:33.500 --> 00:43:34.500
Maybe there's not a line.

1054
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:36.500
Maybe extreme insecurity is narcissism.

1055
00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:38.500
Both can be true.

1056
00:43:38.500 --> 00:43:42.500
You know, I'd say that not all insecure people are narcissists,

1057
00:43:42.500 --> 00:43:44.500
but all narcissists are insecure.

1058
00:43:44.500 --> 00:43:50.500
I would say that if I had to give some kind of line,

1059
00:43:50.500 --> 00:43:53.500
it would be the interest for growth.

1060
00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:59.500
And secure people are looking for ways to grow and to secure and attach.

1061
00:43:59.500 --> 00:44:05.500
Narcissists, they're not looking for anybody to attach onto.

1062
00:44:05.500 --> 00:44:09.500
They're looking for people to support them, you know, to please them.

1063
00:44:10.500 --> 00:44:14.500
And so they have no interest in growth.

1064
00:44:14.500 --> 00:44:16.500
To them, they've learned all they have to learn.

1065
00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:18.500
I am the best.

1066
00:44:18.500 --> 00:44:20.500
I cannot improve anymore.

1067
00:44:20.500 --> 00:44:21.500
That to me would be the difference.

1068
00:44:21.500 --> 00:44:25.500
When you dealt with narcissists in your own life and in the courtroom,

1069
00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:28.500
what is the reason why they couldn't pray on you?

1070
00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:31.500
What did you do as defense to stop their games,

1071
00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:33.500
their typical games working on you?

1072
00:44:33.500 --> 00:44:36.500
I don't chase their words.

1073
00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:42.500
Often one of the biggest things I see wrong in conversation

1074
00:44:42.500 --> 00:44:46.500
is a narcissist will, same for a gas lighter, they'll dig a hole.

1075
00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:50.500
And then they expect you to fill it.

1076
00:44:50.500 --> 00:44:53.500
Meaning they're going to say something to frustrate you.

1077
00:44:53.500 --> 00:44:55.500
And you go, no, that's not what happened.

1078
00:44:55.500 --> 00:44:56.500
Don't you remember?

1079
00:44:56.500 --> 00:44:57.500
And you just start chasing it.

1080
00:44:57.500 --> 00:44:59.500
And then they just dig another hole.

1081
00:44:59.500 --> 00:45:01.500
And then you keep going.

1082
00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:02.500
And you keep going.

1083
00:45:02.500 --> 00:45:03.500
And you're exhausted.

1084
00:45:03.500 --> 00:45:05.500
Because all you've been doing is trying to plug holes.

1085
00:45:05.500 --> 00:45:07.500
You're not having a real conversation.

1086
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:11.500
And when I can give it a very clear definition,

1087
00:45:11.500 --> 00:45:15.500
a very clear signal of noted,

1088
00:45:15.500 --> 00:45:17.500
you know, I'm just going to stay right there.

1089
00:45:17.500 --> 00:45:20.500
I'm going to see, I'm going to put down the shovel

1090
00:45:20.500 --> 00:45:22.500
and stay right there with them.

1091
00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:26.500
And maybe I'll say something as neutral as, got it.

1092
00:45:26.500 --> 00:45:28.500
I don't have to chase it.

1093
00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:30.500
I don't have to say anything.

1094
00:45:30.500 --> 00:45:34.500
And to me, the people that have those narcissistic traits,

1095
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:37.500
once they realize that they can have no game with you,

1096
00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:41.500
that you're not going to play, they find somebody else.

1097
00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:42.500
They find somebody else.

1098
00:45:42.500 --> 00:45:45.500
If you've ever had somebody come to you

1099
00:45:45.500 --> 00:45:48.500
and they're more emotionally toxic type of person,

1100
00:45:48.500 --> 00:45:49.500
they always have some kind of problem.

1101
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:51.500
And they come with you and they have this problem.

1102
00:45:51.500 --> 00:45:53.500
I can't write this moment, I will.

1103
00:45:53.500 --> 00:45:55.500
And ten minutes later, what's happened?

1104
00:45:55.500 --> 00:45:56.500
They don't have that issue.

1105
00:45:56.500 --> 00:45:58.500
They've already gone to talk to somebody else.

1106
00:45:59.500 --> 00:46:02.500
I was watching a Dame Dash on the Breakfast Club.

1107
00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:03.500
I don't know if you've seen it.

1108
00:46:03.500 --> 00:46:05.500
But it's really one of the Breakfast Club.

1109
00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:07.500
But it's Dame Dash is on there

1110
00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:09.500
because he was, he followed for bankruptcy

1111
00:46:09.500 --> 00:46:11.500
and Charlemagne is sat there.

1112
00:46:11.500 --> 00:46:13.500
And Charlemagne is, I've actually interviewed both of them

1113
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:15.500
both Dame and Charlemagne.

1114
00:46:15.500 --> 00:46:18.500
And Charlemagne is very relaxed.

1115
00:46:18.500 --> 00:46:21.500
And every once in a while, just tells Dame Dash

1116
00:46:21.500 --> 00:46:22.500
that he thinks he's broke.

1117
00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:26.500
And then Dame Dash is like very, like hot-headed

1118
00:46:26.500 --> 00:46:29.500
trying to prove all the reasons why he's not broken,

1119
00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:31.500
like really like, you know, gassing himself.

1120
00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:34.500
And it was an interesting video to watch, I think.

1121
00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:37.500
It's the more recent one that came out within the last year

1122
00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:39.500
because it does show, in my view,

1123
00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:43.500
how to deal with someone who has a very,

1124
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:45.500
has a significant ego,

1125
00:46:45.500 --> 00:46:49.500
which is, Charlemagne just never changes state.

1126
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:51.500
Like no matter what the volume is,

1127
00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:52.500
no matter how much emotion,

1128
00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.500
no matter when he starts calling him

1129
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.500
some quite personal insults,

1130
00:46:57.500 --> 00:47:01.500
Charlemagne's demeanor, his tone, his posture.

1131
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:02.500
Yeah, it doesn't change.

1132
00:47:02.500 --> 00:47:03.500
Unbothered.

1133
00:47:03.500 --> 00:47:04.500
Unbothered.

1134
00:47:04.500 --> 00:47:06.500
And you can see it's super trickering.

1135
00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:08.500
But you just can't get to this guy.

1136
00:47:08.500 --> 00:47:10.500
Right, it looks like Dame is like really annoyed.

1137
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:12.500
And he tries to say more offensive things.

1138
00:47:12.500 --> 00:47:14.500
He goes, you're, you're this, you're that, the other.

1139
00:47:14.500 --> 00:47:16.500
And it's funny because I was watching it this morning.

1140
00:47:16.500 --> 00:47:18.500
And for me, it kind of tracks a lot of the stuff

1141
00:47:18.500 --> 00:47:20.500
you're saying about, like, just not going with them.

1142
00:47:20.500 --> 00:47:21.500
Yeah.

1143
00:47:21.500 --> 00:47:22.500
Just not following them.

1144
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:24.500
Because they want you to go somewhere.

1145
00:47:24.500 --> 00:47:27.500
And then there's a certain conflict they want to get in with you.

1146
00:47:27.500 --> 00:47:29.500
And if you just kind of refuse and just stay anchored

1147
00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:32.500
to whatever your point of view is, it's funny to watch.

1148
00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:33.500
They want to push you.

1149
00:47:33.500 --> 00:47:34.500
Yeah.

1150
00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:37.500
Yeah, my dad, I can remember growing up,

1151
00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:40.500
I'd be in the passenger seat, he's driving.

1152
00:47:40.500 --> 00:47:42.500
And he ever had it where somebody,

1153
00:47:42.500 --> 00:47:43.500
you're in the passenger seat,

1154
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:47.500
and somebody is just rearing the bumper right on them.

1155
00:47:47.500 --> 00:47:49.500
And I'd be looking in the side mirror.

1156
00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:52.500
And I'm like, I kind of start stressing out for him.

1157
00:47:52.500 --> 00:47:55.500
You know, that's somebody's really riding the bumper, you know,

1158
00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:56.500
right behind.

1159
00:47:56.500 --> 00:47:58.500
And I mean, just like clockwork,

1160
00:47:58.500 --> 00:48:03.500
what he would do, we have shoulders on the roads there in Texas.

1161
00:48:03.500 --> 00:48:05.500
And rather than trying to speed up or get mad,

1162
00:48:05.500 --> 00:48:07.500
he would just kind of pull over to the shoulder.

1163
00:48:07.500 --> 00:48:08.500
And he would say this every time.

1164
00:48:08.500 --> 00:48:10.500
He'd say, go on with your bad self.

1165
00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:13.500
Every time he'd go, go on with your bad self in the rear rear mirror.

1166
00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:17.500
Like, that's how unbothered he was by that of,

1167
00:48:17.500 --> 00:48:19.500
I feel like so many people get road rage.

1168
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:24.500
And so many people talk out loud to the cars while they're driving.

1169
00:48:24.500 --> 00:48:26.500
And he, it just never got him worked up.

1170
00:48:26.500 --> 00:48:31.500
And realizing my value,

1171
00:48:31.500 --> 00:48:33.500
in my worth of knowing who I am,

1172
00:48:33.500 --> 00:48:39.500
is not at all determined by where you feel I should go.

1173
00:48:39.500 --> 00:48:40.500
It goes back to that idea of,

1174
00:48:40.500 --> 00:48:44.500
if you want to tell me this guy's purple, knock yourself out.

1175
00:48:44.500 --> 00:48:47.500
Now, I don't have to be right.

1176
00:48:47.500 --> 00:48:50.500
And you don't have the ability to push me.

1177
00:48:50.500 --> 00:48:52.500
I can move and you have your own,

1178
00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:54.500
I know my lane.

1179
00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:55.500
I know my speed.

1180
00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:57.500
I don't have to match anybody else's.

1181
00:48:57.500 --> 00:49:00.500
So when somebody is unbothered,

1182
00:49:00.500 --> 00:49:01.500
it's not because they don't care.

1183
00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:04.500
It's not for lack of care.

1184
00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:06.500
It's an understanding.

1185
00:49:06.500 --> 00:49:09.500
It's discernment of knowing,

1186
00:49:09.500 --> 00:49:11.500
I know who I am in this moment.

1187
00:49:11.500 --> 00:49:14.500
And why in the world would I try to be anybody else?

1188
00:49:14.500 --> 00:49:16.500
Wouldn't life be amazing if we could all be untriggerable?

1189
00:49:16.500 --> 00:49:19.500
It'd be more peaceable, that's for sure.

1190
00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:21.500
It's interesting because, again,

1191
00:49:21.500 --> 00:49:23.500
just reflect on that interview I watched this morning,

1192
00:49:23.500 --> 00:49:26.500
when Dame Dash calls Charlemagne something really,

1193
00:49:26.500 --> 00:49:27.500
really offensive.

1194
00:49:27.500 --> 00:49:29.500
I noticed that as a viewer,

1195
00:49:29.500 --> 00:49:31.500
I immediately look at Charlemagne

1196
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:33.500
to see his reaction to figure out

1197
00:49:33.500 --> 00:49:36.500
if what Dame Dash just said was true.

1198
00:49:36.500 --> 00:49:38.500
And you see what I'm saying?

1199
00:49:38.500 --> 00:49:39.500
Yes, he turned him and said,

1200
00:49:39.500 --> 00:49:40.500
you're a X.

1201
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:43.500
And then Charlemagne just kind of laughed.

1202
00:49:44.500 --> 00:49:46.500
I'm like, it was like water off a duck's back.

1203
00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:47.500
So immediately as the viewer,

1204
00:49:47.500 --> 00:49:48.500
I go, well, that can't be true then,

1205
00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:50.500
because Charlemagne doesn't seem to care.

1206
00:49:50.500 --> 00:49:54.500
Exactly. Well, it's not the lack of a care.

1207
00:49:54.500 --> 00:49:57.500
It's just the opposite.

1208
00:49:57.500 --> 00:50:02.500
It's all the more care of knowing who he is.

1209
00:50:02.500 --> 00:50:06.500
So if I were to tell you right now,

1210
00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:08.500
I hate your purple shirt.

1211
00:50:08.500 --> 00:50:11.500
It's the most ugliest purple shirt I've ever seen, Stephen.

1212
00:50:12.500 --> 00:50:16.500
Like your shirt is so ugly in that purple.

1213
00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:18.500
Does it affect you whatsoever?

1214
00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:20.500
No, because I'm not wearing a purple shirt

1215
00:50:20.500 --> 00:50:21.500
for anyone to say one apple plus one.

1216
00:50:21.500 --> 00:50:23.500
That's right. That's a good point.

1217
00:50:23.500 --> 00:50:26.500
Right. But you see how you already know

1218
00:50:26.500 --> 00:50:28.500
the characteristics of you.

1219
00:50:28.500 --> 00:50:30.500
You already know what you're wearing.

1220
00:50:30.500 --> 00:50:32.500
And it's not just your clothes.

1221
00:50:32.500 --> 00:50:34.500
I'm wearing my confidence.

1222
00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:37.500
I'm wearing everything that your parents,

1223
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:40.500
your loved ones have instilled and put on you.

1224
00:50:40.500 --> 00:50:43.500
So I'm wearing the armor of my faith.

1225
00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:46.500
I have all these other things that I'm wearing.

1226
00:50:46.500 --> 00:50:50.500
And if you want to say my shirt's purple,

1227
00:50:50.500 --> 00:50:52.500
that doesn't affect me at all,

1228
00:50:52.500 --> 00:50:54.500
because that's not who I am.

1229
00:50:54.500 --> 00:50:57.500
So often people get mixed up of arguing about,

1230
00:50:57.500 --> 00:51:00.500
no, I don't have a purple shirt on.

1231
00:51:00.500 --> 00:51:04.500
When, why would you ever argue with that?

1232
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:07.500
It's that quote by Abraham Lincoln

1233
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:11.500
that I love if never argue with a fool

1234
00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:15.500
because an onlooker can never know the difference.

1235
00:51:15.500 --> 00:51:18.500
Right. And so it's knowing,

1236
00:51:18.500 --> 00:51:21.500
no, I know exactly who I am and what I'm wearing.

1237
00:51:21.500 --> 00:51:24.500
And this sort of speaks to the fact that your reaction

1238
00:51:24.500 --> 00:51:27.500
determines how onlookers will interpret

1239
00:51:27.500 --> 00:51:30.500
everything that's happening.

1240
00:51:30.500 --> 00:51:32.500
Oh, the worst thing you could do to somebody

1241
00:51:32.500 --> 00:51:34.500
who insults you is laugh.

1242
00:51:34.500 --> 00:51:37.500
I mean, it infuriates them.

1243
00:51:37.500 --> 00:51:40.500
Right. But when it's the same thing with a bully,

1244
00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:43.500
a bully says something to you that they know

1245
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:45.500
is meant to hurt you.

1246
00:51:45.500 --> 00:51:47.500
And if I were to turn around and say,

1247
00:51:47.500 --> 00:51:50.500
did you say that to embarrass me?

1248
00:51:50.500 --> 00:51:52.500
I mean, what are they going to do?

1249
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:54.500
They could say yes, they could say no.

1250
00:51:54.500 --> 00:51:56.500
Either way, you're realizing I'm not getting

1251
00:51:56.500 --> 00:51:57.500
any reaction.

1252
00:51:57.500 --> 00:51:59.500
What you're showing them is for you to do this,

1253
00:51:59.500 --> 00:52:01.500
it's just not going to be fun for you.

1254
00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:03.500
It's going to be zero fun whatsoever for you.

1255
00:52:03.500 --> 00:52:06.500
And so they'll find that with somebody, somebody else.

1256
00:52:06.500 --> 00:52:11.500
It's always your reaction that's going to determine

1257
00:52:11.500 --> 00:52:13.500
how the conversation goes forward.

1258
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:14.500
There's a lot of people listening right now

1259
00:52:14.500 --> 00:52:16.500
that are a long way away from that.

1260
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:17.500
Very easily triggered.

1261
00:52:17.500 --> 00:52:18.500
Yeah.

1262
00:52:18.500 --> 00:52:21.500
Seeking justice, you know, whatever it might be.

1263
00:52:21.500 --> 00:52:24.500
For those people, is it like a muscle they have to build

1264
00:52:24.500 --> 00:52:27.500
or is there, what is the journey to getting to this

1265
00:52:27.500 --> 00:52:28.500
level of sort of mastery?

1266
00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:30.500
It's a discipline.

1267
00:52:30.500 --> 00:52:34.500
It is in the same way that people invest in so many

1268
00:52:34.500 --> 00:52:35.500
other things in our life.

1269
00:52:35.500 --> 00:52:37.500
We invest in our health.

1270
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:39.500
We invest in self-help books.

1271
00:52:39.500 --> 00:52:41.500
We invest in the podcast that we listen to.

1272
00:52:41.500 --> 00:52:42.500
It is the same.

1273
00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:44.500
You have to invest in your communication.

1274
00:52:44.500 --> 00:52:47.500
We don't get taught in school.

1275
00:52:47.500 --> 00:52:49.500
I went to law school.

1276
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:51.500
People think I learned this in law school.

1277
00:52:51.500 --> 00:52:52.500
No.

1278
00:52:52.500 --> 00:52:53.500
Law school teaches you how to read the law.

1279
00:52:53.500 --> 00:52:55.500
It doesn't teach you how to read people.

1280
00:52:56.500 --> 00:53:00.500
To me, if you are somebody that is in a position

1281
00:53:00.500 --> 00:53:02.500
of expertise and to share something,

1282
00:53:02.500 --> 00:53:04.500
it either came at great personal cost

1283
00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:06.500
or you're making it up.

1284
00:53:06.500 --> 00:53:09.500
It is something that you have learned.

1285
00:53:09.500 --> 00:53:10.500
Right?

1286
00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:11.500
That's true.

1287
00:53:11.500 --> 00:53:15.500
I mean, whether it's through skill, knowledge, training,

1288
00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:18.500
you want to know how I know these things

1289
00:53:18.500 --> 00:53:20.500
because I've lived it.

1290
00:53:20.500 --> 00:53:22.500
I have been on the bat side.

1291
00:53:22.500 --> 00:53:24.500
I've been on the good side.

1292
00:53:24.500 --> 00:53:29.500
It's never something that's just going to come to you.

1293
00:53:29.500 --> 00:53:33.500
We are emotional creatures and we're hormonal creatures.

1294
00:53:33.500 --> 00:53:36.500
How do you think about our emotions, our hormones,

1295
00:53:36.500 --> 00:53:38.500
our health, our physical, cognitive state

1296
00:53:38.500 --> 00:53:42.500
as it relates to walking into the courtroom and being ready?

1297
00:53:42.500 --> 00:53:46.500
If I've had zero hours sleep and I'm hungry

1298
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:48.500
and whatever else and I've had an argument,

1299
00:53:48.500 --> 00:53:50.500
I'm stressed about something.

1300
00:53:50.500 --> 00:53:52.500
It's going to be significantly harder to show up

1301
00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:55.500
and be a great communicator and win the argument against somebody.

1302
00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:57.500
So do you think about these things?

1303
00:53:57.500 --> 00:53:58.500
All the time.

1304
00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:01.500
I mean, the emotions are right or connected to the words.

1305
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:06.500
And how do you prepare to be ready for battle?

1306
00:54:06.500 --> 00:54:11.500
It's an emotional awareness of how I'm feeling

1307
00:54:11.500 --> 00:54:13.500
and also how the other person is.

1308
00:54:13.500 --> 00:54:15.500
Because if I just respond,

1309
00:54:15.500 --> 00:54:18.500
if I respond to their emotional reaction,

1310
00:54:18.500 --> 00:54:19.500
I'll miss it every time.

1311
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:21.500
Same thing in relationships.

1312
00:54:21.500 --> 00:54:24.500
If I respond to the reaction,

1313
00:54:24.500 --> 00:54:27.500
I'll lose that moment to actually speak to the need.

1314
00:54:27.500 --> 00:54:30.500
So even in the courtroom for me,

1315
00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:33.500
if I know that I'm a little sleepy,

1316
00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:36.500
I know I'm a little hungry, I'm a little grumpy.

1317
00:54:36.500 --> 00:54:37.500
You know what?

1318
00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:39.500
I can either try and pretend that I'm not

1319
00:54:39.500 --> 00:54:42.500
or I might get up from the jury and say,

1320
00:54:42.500 --> 00:54:43.500
good morning everybody.

1321
00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:45.500
I have to admit to you, I'm a little grumpy.

1322
00:54:45.500 --> 00:54:46.500
I didn't need all that much this morning.

1323
00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.500
Anybody else grumpy?

1324
00:54:47.500 --> 00:54:49.500
And everybody starts to kind of nod.

1325
00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:51.500
And now, hey, we all kind of relate.

1326
00:54:51.500 --> 00:54:53.500
Not to my words, but now to the feeling.

1327
00:54:53.500 --> 00:54:56.500
And now you trust me more.

1328
00:54:56.500 --> 00:54:59.500
I trust you more because I'm being more authentic.

1329
00:54:59.500 --> 00:55:02.500
And do you think people should do that in their own

1330
00:55:02.500 --> 00:55:03.500
into personal relationships,

1331
00:55:03.500 --> 00:55:05.500
which is just cool out that state?

1332
00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:06.500
Absolutely.

1333
00:55:06.500 --> 00:55:08.500
Because perfection is not relatable.

1334
00:55:08.500 --> 00:55:09.500
Struggle is.

1335
00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:10.500
Emotions are.

1336
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:14.500
If I were to come to you and say,

1337
00:55:14.500 --> 00:55:15.500
and you say, how are you?

1338
00:55:15.500 --> 00:55:17.500
I go, good, everything's good when it is not.

1339
00:55:17.500 --> 00:55:20.500
Am I being authentic or am I being fake?

1340
00:55:20.500 --> 00:55:22.500
But if I were to say, let me tell you,

1341
00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:25.500
I've had a morning and it's tested me in a way

1342
00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:27.500
I was not expecting.

1343
00:55:27.500 --> 00:55:29.500
And my mind is just not here.

1344
00:55:29.500 --> 00:55:31.500
Does that make you trust me more?

1345
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:32.500
Trust me less.

1346
00:55:32.500 --> 00:55:33.500
Trust me more.

1347
00:55:33.500 --> 00:55:34.500
Every time.

1348
00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:36.500
So when you can share your struggles with people,

1349
00:55:36.500 --> 00:55:39.500
I'm not talking about your deepest inner desire struggles.

1350
00:55:39.500 --> 00:55:42.500
I'm saying, let me put it this way.

1351
00:55:43.500 --> 00:55:45.500
Sierra and I check in with each other every morning.

1352
00:55:45.500 --> 00:55:46.500
It's my wife.

1353
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:51.500
And it's only about 10 minutes after she drops the kid off,

1354
00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:52.500
a kid's off.

1355
00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:57.500
And we kind of run through how we're doing.

1356
00:55:57.500 --> 00:55:59.500
And the number one thing she asks me or tells me

1357
00:55:59.500 --> 00:56:02.500
goes, you told me a lot about what you're doing.

1358
00:56:02.500 --> 00:56:04.500
You haven't told me about how you're feeling.

1359
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:07.500
And that's the truth of the default.

1360
00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:09.500
I think of a lot of men and a lot of people.

1361
00:56:09.500 --> 00:56:10.500
I'm going to tell you what's going on.

1362
00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:13.500
What's on my agenda, what I'm doing.

1363
00:56:13.500 --> 00:56:15.500
I haven't told you a lot about how I'm feeling.

1364
00:56:15.500 --> 00:56:18.500
And we store all that stuff up because it's still there.

1365
00:56:18.500 --> 00:56:23.500
But if I can share with you, what is my struggle?

1366
00:56:23.500 --> 00:56:24.500
What's happening?

1367
00:56:24.500 --> 00:56:25.500
Not just the good.

1368
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:28.500
But more importantly, the bad.

1369
00:56:28.500 --> 00:56:32.500
I mean, it's always going to bring that authenticity into the play.

1370
00:56:32.500 --> 00:56:35.500
Women and men are very different in many ways.

1371
00:56:35.500 --> 00:56:38.500
We're very different in many ways.

1372
00:56:38.500 --> 00:56:41.500
Men are, I don't know, it feels like men just, you know,

1373
00:56:41.500 --> 00:56:43.500
again, I'm stereotyping here.

1374
00:56:43.500 --> 00:56:44.500
So it's not all men.

1375
00:56:44.500 --> 00:56:46.500
Of course, people are different.

1376
00:56:46.500 --> 00:56:50.500
But just speaking generally, the stereotype is that men are

1377
00:56:50.500 --> 00:56:53.500
typically a bit more emotionally composed.

1378
00:56:53.500 --> 00:56:55.500
Or should I say flat?

1379
00:56:55.500 --> 00:56:58.500
And women have more emotional fluctuations.

1380
00:56:58.500 --> 00:57:01.500
One could look at hormone changes throughout the month

1381
00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:03.500
and talk about why that might be, et cetera, et cetera.

1382
00:57:03.500 --> 00:57:05.500
I've had many scientists here talk to me about hormone fluctuations

1383
00:57:05.500 --> 00:57:08.500
and how that impacts someone feels.

1384
00:57:08.500 --> 00:57:11.500
But what this means in our romantic relationships

1385
00:57:11.500 --> 00:57:15.500
is sometimes we meet each other on very different wavelengths.

1386
00:57:15.500 --> 00:57:16.500
Yeah.

1387
00:57:16.500 --> 00:57:21.500
So in my relationship, my partner's probably seen me cry once

1388
00:57:21.500 --> 00:57:26.500
in seven years, maybe twice, but probably once.

1389
00:57:26.500 --> 00:57:31.500
I've probably seen how cry 500 times, maybe more.

1390
00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:32.500
Yeah.

1391
00:57:32.500 --> 00:57:35.500
It feels, it almost feels like I'm just going to be completely

1392
00:57:35.500 --> 00:57:37.500
honest because I just think it's helpful.

1393
00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:39.500
So you can put me up on the line if you want to.

1394
00:57:39.500 --> 00:57:44.500
Sometimes it feels like we're a different species.

1395
00:57:44.500 --> 00:57:47.500
Like the way that I interact with my guy friends and the way

1396
00:57:47.500 --> 00:57:50.500
that the sort of wavelength that my romantic partner,

1397
00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:53.500
my girlfriend, operates on, are very, very different.

1398
00:57:53.500 --> 00:57:56.500
So it's very easy to like miss understand.

1399
00:57:56.500 --> 00:57:59.500
And we spend a lot of time talking about how men need to be more

1400
00:57:59.500 --> 00:58:01.500
emotional and more.

1401
00:58:01.500 --> 00:58:03.500
I don't know, many to change how they are.

1402
00:58:03.500 --> 00:58:04.500
Yeah.

1403
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:05.500
Because it's the problem.

1404
00:58:05.500 --> 00:58:09.500
But what about the, like what about the other side of that?

1405
00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:18.500
Which is, do women also need to think about,

1406
00:58:18.500 --> 00:58:20.500
do we need to meet in the middle?

1407
00:58:20.500 --> 00:58:22.500
It's what I'm saying.

1408
00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:25.500
There certainly is space to meet in the middle.

1409
00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:26.500
Like he's right in that.

1410
00:58:26.500 --> 00:58:27.500
I don't know.

1411
00:58:27.500 --> 00:58:29.500
Is there a person that's right in this configuration?

1412
00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:32.500
Am I meant to be way more emotional and be,

1413
00:58:32.500 --> 00:58:34.500
or was she meant to be way more composed?

1414
00:58:34.500 --> 00:58:36.500
Because I think that's often how both sides feel.

1415
00:58:36.500 --> 00:58:39.500
They feel like, why aren't you coming to my wavelength

1416
00:58:39.500 --> 00:58:40.500
on this issue?

1417
00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:41.500
But I think here's what you're missing.

1418
00:58:41.500 --> 00:58:44.500
She would be much more composed if you would be more emotional.

1419
00:58:44.500 --> 00:58:51.500
And so a lot of the times what I find in my own marriage

1420
00:58:51.500 --> 00:58:55.500
is when I show emotion, the more composed she is.

1421
00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:57.500
I mean, if I start screaming and crying,

1422
00:58:57.500 --> 00:58:58.500
I think my girlfriend's screaming.

1423
00:58:58.500 --> 00:58:59.500
I'm not saying screaming.

1424
00:58:59.500 --> 00:59:01.500
I'm saying show emotion.

1425
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:03.500
What kind of emotion?

1426
00:59:03.500 --> 00:59:04.500
Being in it with her.

1427
00:59:04.500 --> 00:59:06.500
And what does that look like?

1428
00:59:06.500 --> 00:59:11.500
That means you're going to say things that make her feel it.

1429
00:59:11.500 --> 00:59:13.500
There's a difference if I just go static.

1430
00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:16.500
That's what happens to me a lot, truthfully,

1431
00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:19.500
is let's say we're in an argument about something

1432
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:24.500
or something came up and see her as emotional about it.

1433
00:59:24.500 --> 00:59:27.500
If I dismiss it, okay, this is so dumb.

1434
00:59:27.500 --> 00:59:29.500
Really, right now, this is because arguments never come

1435
00:59:29.500 --> 00:59:31.500
at the most opportune time.

1436
00:59:31.500 --> 00:59:33.500
They come at the worst possible time.

1437
00:59:33.500 --> 00:59:35.500
Yeah, that's, hello, that's all relationships.

1438
00:59:35.500 --> 00:59:38.500
If I dismiss it, does that make her come closer to me

1439
00:59:38.500 --> 00:59:40.500
or further away from me?

1440
00:59:40.500 --> 00:59:42.500
And if I'm pushing her further away from me,

1441
00:59:42.500 --> 00:59:44.500
why would she not be more emotional?

1442
00:59:44.500 --> 00:59:48.500
Why would she not be further away from me

1443
00:59:48.500 --> 00:59:50.500
if I dismiss that?

1444
00:59:50.500 --> 00:59:53.500
For every woman to be more emotional as a man,

1445
00:59:53.500 --> 00:59:56.500
tears are not necessary.

1446
00:59:56.500 --> 00:59:58.500
Connection is being in it.

1447
00:59:58.500 --> 01:00:00.500
Is saying things that make her feel

1448
01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:02.500
that you're genuinely feeling it.

1449
01:00:02.500 --> 01:00:05.500
The difference I find with men and what I struggle with

1450
01:00:05.500 --> 01:00:08.500
is I can say that I'm sad.

1451
01:00:08.500 --> 01:00:10.500
I have a hard time expressing sad.

1452
01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:13.500
I can say that I'm really regretful.

1453
01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:17.500
I have a hard time expressing that.

1454
01:00:18.500 --> 01:00:20.500
I think that is something that happens a lot

1455
01:00:20.500 --> 01:00:22.500
with most relationships.

1456
01:00:22.500 --> 01:00:24.500
And I think that happens a lot with men of,

1457
01:00:24.500 --> 01:00:28.500
we were emotional and we got taught early that

1458
01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:30.500
you are not to cry.

1459
01:00:30.500 --> 01:00:32.500
I couldn't even tell you how many times

1460
01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:34.500
I ever saw my dad cry.

1461
01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:35.500
I think this is it.

1462
01:00:35.500 --> 01:00:37.500
The modeling we had as well is.

1463
01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:41.500
My dad was either angry or completely static.

1464
01:00:41.500 --> 01:00:43.500
And when I say angry, he was very, very, rarely angry.

1465
01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:44.500
Right.

1466
01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:47.500
When I saw him engage with my mom on an emotional level,

1467
01:00:47.500 --> 01:00:50.500
it would be him yelling back.

1468
01:00:50.500 --> 01:00:51.500
Right.

1469
01:00:51.500 --> 01:00:55.500
If he wasn't yelling back, he was completely just like,

1470
01:00:55.500 --> 01:00:57.500
he was just very calm, static, the emotional.

1471
01:00:57.500 --> 01:00:59.500
There was no in between.

1472
01:00:59.500 --> 01:01:00.500
Yeah.

1473
01:01:00.500 --> 01:01:03.500
It all comes down to repair.

1474
01:01:03.500 --> 01:01:06.500
How quickly you get to repair.

1475
01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:11.500
That means can I validate the feeling that she has?

1476
01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:16.500
Validation is repair, it's not weakness, it's repair.

1477
01:01:16.500 --> 01:01:20.500
In my world, relationships don't fall apart

1478
01:01:20.500 --> 01:01:21.500
because of one big failure.

1479
01:01:21.500 --> 01:01:26.500
They fall apart because of a hundred moments

1480
01:01:26.500 --> 01:01:29.500
where repair could have happened and it didn't.

1481
01:01:29.500 --> 01:01:31.500
We just chose not to.

1482
01:01:31.500 --> 01:01:33.500
Or you could have said, I'm sorry, but you was held it.

1483
01:01:33.500 --> 01:01:35.500
I could have chose to validate how you're feeling,

1484
01:01:35.500 --> 01:01:37.500
but I said, that's stupid.

1485
01:01:37.500 --> 01:01:40.500
And it's those, the hundreds of those little bitty moments

1486
01:01:40.500 --> 01:01:44.500
where all of a sudden no wonder your world's apart

1487
01:01:44.500 --> 01:01:47.500
because you chose in those little bitty moments not to do repair

1488
01:01:47.500 --> 01:01:50.500
because you said, this is so stupid, this is so small.

1489
01:01:50.500 --> 01:01:51.500
Yeah, it is small.

1490
01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:54.500
All the more reason why you should repair it pretty quickly.

1491
01:01:54.500 --> 01:01:58.500
And so when you can validate those concerns,

1492
01:01:58.500 --> 01:02:01.500
even when you say she's being emotional, you're not.

1493
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:05.500
When you go into that static mode, when I go into that static mode,

1494
01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:09.500
it's a choice by me to do something different.

1495
01:02:09.500 --> 01:02:11.500
Not say the thing I always say.

1496
01:02:11.500 --> 01:02:12.500
Not be dismissive.

1497
01:02:12.500 --> 01:02:15.500
Not find ways to try and convince her

1498
01:02:15.500 --> 01:02:17.500
that she shouldn't feel this way.

1499
01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:21.500
But if I validate, if I say things like,

1500
01:02:21.500 --> 01:02:23.500
I can see how you feel that way.

1501
01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:25.500
If that's how you interpreted it,

1502
01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:26.500
you know what?

1503
01:02:26.500 --> 01:02:28.500
I don't blame you for feeling that way.

1504
01:02:28.500 --> 01:02:29.500
I can see that.

1505
01:02:29.500 --> 01:02:30.500
That sounds scary.

1506
01:02:30.500 --> 01:02:31.500
That sounds frustrating.

1507
01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:35.500
If I can choose that,

1508
01:02:35.500 --> 01:02:37.500
it's this, like this isn't the key for me.

1509
01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:40.500
Trust me, I'm talking to myself here.

1510
01:02:40.500 --> 01:02:41.500
Yeah.

1511
01:02:41.500 --> 01:02:43.500
Because every guy, I feel like I can be like,

1512
01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:44.500
okay, this is right.

1513
01:02:44.500 --> 01:02:48.500
And if I can make the hard choice in that moment

1514
01:02:48.500 --> 01:02:51.500
to put aside my frustration, just for a moment,

1515
01:02:51.500 --> 01:02:56.500
put aside my personal frustration and validate the feeling.

1516
01:02:56.500 --> 01:03:00.500
And say words that speak to her need,

1517
01:03:00.500 --> 01:03:03.500
the need to feel heard, the need to feel safe,

1518
01:03:03.500 --> 01:03:06.500
the need to feel like she's not being too much.

1519
01:03:07.500 --> 01:03:10.500
Then all of a sudden, it all shrinks.

1520
01:03:10.500 --> 01:03:13.500
And you know what, my frustration kind of goes away.

1521
01:03:13.500 --> 01:03:15.500
Why? Because everything's better now.

1522
01:03:15.500 --> 01:03:17.500
We've had moments of repair.

1523
01:03:17.500 --> 01:03:19.500
And then if I still am really frustrated,

1524
01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:21.500
then I can bring it up.

1525
01:03:21.500 --> 01:03:23.500
Can I bring up something to you that you said

1526
01:03:23.500 --> 01:03:25.500
that's really bothering me?

1527
01:03:25.500 --> 01:03:26.500
And then you do.

1528
01:03:26.500 --> 01:03:30.500
How, as a man, do you know that you're not

1529
01:03:30.500 --> 01:03:33.500
setting a bad precedence for the future?

1530
01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:35.500
And what I mean here is,

1531
01:03:35.500 --> 01:03:38.500
if I constantly justify how she's feeling

1532
01:03:38.500 --> 01:03:40.500
and I seek repair and then when she's happy,

1533
01:03:40.500 --> 01:03:42.500
I just let it go.

1534
01:03:42.500 --> 01:03:45.500
There's, I think sometimes there's a worry

1535
01:03:45.500 --> 01:03:49.500
as a man that if you just lay down and take everything,

1536
01:03:49.500 --> 01:03:51.500
then you're just going to get more stuff in the future,

1537
01:03:51.500 --> 01:03:52.500
like you're setting a bad precedence

1538
01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:54.500
for the future of this relationship where

1539
01:03:54.500 --> 01:03:56.500
sometimes actually, no, I wasn't in the wrong.

1540
01:03:56.500 --> 01:03:58.500
Or I do disagree with this.

1541
01:03:58.500 --> 01:04:01.500
And I think I've observed a lot of relationships,

1542
01:04:01.500 --> 01:04:03.500
especially with some of my guy friends,

1543
01:04:03.500 --> 01:04:06.500
where because they like never stood up for themselves,

1544
01:04:06.500 --> 01:04:08.500
then I like living in a prison.

1545
01:04:08.500 --> 01:04:11.500
They like never stood up for themselves.

1546
01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:14.500
And so they've kind of lost all of their autonomy

1547
01:04:14.500 --> 01:04:15.500
and agency and control.

1548
01:04:15.500 --> 01:04:18.500
And they, you know, even when you're listening to this,

1549
01:04:18.500 --> 01:04:20.500
there's probably people you can think of in your life

1550
01:04:20.500 --> 01:04:22.500
where the guy has always opted for an easy life

1551
01:04:22.500 --> 01:04:23.500
in the short term.

1552
01:04:23.500 --> 01:04:25.500
And now over the long term, he has a really hard one.

1553
01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:27.500
And again, men and women.

1554
01:04:27.500 --> 01:04:28.500
Of course.

1555
01:04:28.500 --> 01:04:31.500
So this is the balance I'm trying to understand in your view

1556
01:04:31.500 --> 01:04:34.500
is, you know, when do you pick the fight?

1557
01:04:34.500 --> 01:04:36.500
And when you say, no, that's not.

1558
01:04:36.500 --> 01:04:39.500
Versus just laying down and taking it.

1559
01:04:39.500 --> 01:04:41.500
This is quite personal to me as well,

1560
01:04:41.500 --> 01:04:43.500
because I think my dad did that a bit too much.

1561
01:04:43.500 --> 01:04:46.500
I think my dad, he never, he never chose the fight.

1562
01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:49.500
And then I look at how that played out over 20 years

1563
01:04:49.500 --> 01:04:52.500
and I'm like, damn, it's completely changed me

1564
01:04:52.500 --> 01:04:57.500
because it means that I will now go through the conflict

1565
01:04:57.500 --> 01:04:59.500
and stand up for myself.

1566
01:04:59.500 --> 01:05:01.500
And then I hit a place where I'm like,

1567
01:05:01.500 --> 01:05:03.500
I'm not going to be able to honor that few

1568
01:05:03.500 --> 01:05:04.500
for the next 30 years.

1569
01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:06.500
I will stand my ground.

1570
01:05:06.500 --> 01:05:08.500
Do you know if there's like an area where

1571
01:05:08.500 --> 01:05:10.500
my, my, my semi-girlfriends are happier

1572
01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:11.500
about a certain thing I do.

1573
01:05:11.500 --> 01:05:12.500
Yeah.

1574
01:05:12.500 --> 01:05:14.500
If I don't think that I'm going to be able to promise

1575
01:05:14.500 --> 01:05:17.500
to not do that for the next 10, 20, 30 years,

1576
01:05:17.500 --> 01:05:19.500
if I'm unwilling to change,

1577
01:05:19.500 --> 01:05:21.500
I have to stand my ground.

1578
01:05:21.500 --> 01:05:24.500
Because if I can see today, it's hell tomorrow.

1579
01:05:24.500 --> 01:05:26.500
Yeah, what I'm hearing,

1580
01:05:26.500 --> 01:05:30.500
what I'm hearing is fear of autonomy,

1581
01:05:30.500 --> 01:05:36.500
fear of my rights, fear of my dominance.

1582
01:05:36.500 --> 01:05:37.500
Yeah, like my freedom being.

1583
01:05:37.500 --> 01:05:38.500
Yeah.

1584
01:05:38.500 --> 01:05:41.500
Well, you want to hear the, probably the number one word

1585
01:05:41.500 --> 01:05:45.500
you'll hear with relationships that are on the brink,

1586
01:05:45.500 --> 01:05:46.500
it's caged.

1587
01:05:46.500 --> 01:05:48.500
Men feels caged.

1588
01:05:48.500 --> 01:05:50.500
You know, the man feels caged.

1589
01:05:50.500 --> 01:05:54.500
And really all that is it's a lack of confidence

1590
01:05:54.500 --> 01:06:04.500
of knowing if I am willing to do something different

1591
01:06:04.500 --> 01:06:06.500
than I can't have anything else.

1592
01:06:06.500 --> 01:06:13.500
So it's, it's, it's thinking in terms of zero sum.

1593
01:06:13.500 --> 01:06:15.500
See, both can be true.

1594
01:06:15.500 --> 01:06:19.500
I can, you can still validate how she's feeling

1595
01:06:19.500 --> 01:06:22.500
and not at all touch what you still know to be true.

1596
01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:24.500
So you can still disagree with her.

1597
01:06:24.500 --> 01:06:27.500
But every time we go into a conversation,

1598
01:06:27.500 --> 01:06:29.500
we walk in with a need.

1599
01:06:29.500 --> 01:06:31.500
A need to feel loved, understood.

1600
01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:36.500
It is always depths like you think of like a kid,

1601
01:06:36.500 --> 01:06:38.500
right, my son, my daughter.

1602
01:06:38.500 --> 01:06:43.500
If when she was small and she screamed or she cried

1603
01:06:43.500 --> 01:06:46.500
or told me no, still tells me no, you know,

1604
01:06:46.500 --> 01:06:48.500
of all these things and I just said,

1605
01:06:48.500 --> 01:06:49.500
no, are you kidding me?

1606
01:06:49.500 --> 01:06:52.500
You're going to tell me and I, you're crying right now, really?

1607
01:06:52.500 --> 01:06:54.500
And I get all upset when she screams.

1608
01:06:54.500 --> 01:06:56.500
But with kids, we don't do that.

1609
01:06:56.500 --> 01:06:58.500
We go, she's hungry.

1610
01:06:58.500 --> 01:06:59.500
She's tired.

1611
01:06:59.500 --> 01:07:00.500
She's scared.

1612
01:07:00.500 --> 01:07:04.500
And we just forget that we're all just big kids.

1613
01:07:04.500 --> 01:07:07.500
And we all have those like hidden needs underneath us.

1614
01:07:07.500 --> 01:07:12.500
And so you still can stain your ground and say,

1615
01:07:12.500 --> 01:07:14.500
so let's run it.

1616
01:07:14.500 --> 01:07:16.500
So let's say, for example,

1617
01:07:16.500 --> 01:07:19.500
from my ex girlfriend, I was on my phone in bed and I was sending a message

1618
01:07:19.500 --> 01:07:21.500
because there's something going on in my business back in the UK

1619
01:07:21.500 --> 01:07:23.500
and I was in Asia at the time.

1620
01:07:23.500 --> 01:07:27.500
And she said to me that she wanted to make a rule

1621
01:07:27.500 --> 01:07:29.500
where there was never any phones in bed.

1622
01:07:29.500 --> 01:07:32.500
I could never touch my phone in the bedroom.

1623
01:07:32.500 --> 01:07:34.500
And as I thought this through, I thought, God,

1624
01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:38.500
I thought about all the scenarios where I might need to touch my phone in the bedroom.

1625
01:07:38.500 --> 01:07:41.500
And what would, I realized that what would end up happening

1626
01:07:41.500 --> 01:07:43.500
is I just wouldn't come into the bedroom.

1627
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:46.500
I'd like go and do it in the toilet or the shower or I'd just like,

1628
01:07:46.500 --> 01:07:49.500
I wouldn't come to bed if I needed to do something on my phone.

1629
01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:52.500
And so the conversation went where I was like,

1630
01:07:52.500 --> 01:07:57.500
I realized in this moment that I had to kind of like not lay down on this issue

1631
01:07:57.500 --> 01:07:59.500
because I would disappoint her in the future.

1632
01:07:59.500 --> 01:08:01.500
I was setting myself up to fail in the future.

1633
01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:05.500
If I accepted this and made her some kind of promise though,

1634
01:08:05.500 --> 01:08:09.500
you know, I agreed that I wasn't going to touch my phone ever again in the bedroom.

1635
01:08:09.500 --> 01:08:11.500
And so that was one such example where I'm like,

1636
01:08:11.500 --> 01:08:37.500
I think I actually need to stand my ground a bit here

1637
01:08:37.500 --> 01:08:38.500
and not feeling connected.

1638
01:08:38.500 --> 01:08:42.500
In my view, at that moment in time, in that particular week

1639
01:08:42.500 --> 01:08:44.500
because I was so busy in that particular week

1640
01:08:44.500 --> 01:08:49.500
that I think she was trying to find a symptom or a tool

1641
01:08:49.500 --> 01:08:53.500
or a guarantee or a promise to express the feeling of disconnection.

1642
01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:54.500
So that's why I looked back on it and go,

1643
01:08:54.500 --> 01:08:56.500
it was actually something else that was just a symptom of a feeling

1644
01:08:56.500 --> 01:08:58.500
she had at that moment in time probably.

1645
01:08:58.500 --> 01:09:00.500
But that was an example where I like,

1646
01:09:00.500 --> 01:09:03.500
if I had conceded, it would have,

1647
01:09:03.500 --> 01:09:04.500
it would not have been sustainable.

1648
01:09:04.500 --> 01:09:06.500
It would have been more arguments in the future.

1649
01:09:06.500 --> 01:09:07.500
I'm not saying you concede.

1650
01:09:07.500 --> 01:09:12.500
I'm saying there are times that if you want the key to the relationship,

1651
01:09:12.500 --> 01:09:16.500
it is putting her comfort over your inconvenience.

1652
01:09:16.500 --> 01:09:18.500
So what should I have done in that situation?

1653
01:09:18.500 --> 01:09:19.500
Give me some advice.

1654
01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:20.500
What do you think?

1655
01:09:20.500 --> 01:09:23.500
Well, you've already kind of named it.

1656
01:09:23.500 --> 01:09:28.500
One, it's not you saying what the wrong thing to say is,

1657
01:09:28.500 --> 01:09:29.500
well, you were just on your phone.

1658
01:09:29.500 --> 01:09:31.500
I mean, you're on your phone all your time.

1659
01:09:31.500 --> 01:09:32.500
You're on the phone all the time.

1660
01:09:32.500 --> 01:09:33.500
What are you talking about?

1661
01:09:33.500 --> 01:09:34.500
And you start arguing.

1662
01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:37.500
Because now you're responding to the reaction.

1663
01:09:37.500 --> 01:09:39.500
You're not addressing the need.

1664
01:09:39.500 --> 01:09:43.500
If you were to slow down and say,

1665
01:09:43.500 --> 01:09:46.500
look, I still want to be connected with you.

1666
01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:51.500
Is there any kind of place where I can still take care of what I need to take care of

1667
01:09:51.500 --> 01:09:54.500
and also be connected to you?

1668
01:09:54.500 --> 01:09:57.500
Or if there's a situation where you say,

1669
01:09:57.500 --> 01:09:59.500
well, what about this?

1670
01:09:59.500 --> 01:10:01.500
Before I just get my phone and grab it,

1671
01:10:01.500 --> 01:10:03.500
I'm going to tell you what I'm doing ahead of time.

1672
01:10:03.500 --> 01:10:06.500
Or I'm going to ask.

1673
01:10:06.500 --> 01:10:07.500
Maybe that's where it is.

1674
01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:08.500
You don't want to ask.

1675
01:10:08.500 --> 01:10:15.500
Hey, I, Greg is supposed to email me some slides or a deck or whatever.

1676
01:10:15.500 --> 01:10:17.500
Can I check that out real quick?

1677
01:10:17.500 --> 01:10:19.500
You hear how she's probably going to say yes.

1678
01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:21.500
But the fact that you are saying,

1679
01:10:21.500 --> 01:10:24.500
hey, I'm acknowledging our connection right now.

1680
01:10:24.500 --> 01:10:26.500
And see, it might make you uncomfortable saying,

1681
01:10:26.500 --> 01:10:28.500
no, I don't like anybody telling me what to do.

1682
01:10:28.500 --> 01:10:30.500
I don't have to, I don't want to report to anybody.

1683
01:10:30.500 --> 01:10:32.500
Okay, that's fine.

1684
01:10:32.500 --> 01:10:35.500
Well, then you just know that connection is always going to be weak.

1685
01:10:35.500 --> 01:10:38.500
And so you're signing your name to that.

1686
01:10:38.500 --> 01:10:43.500
I don't think, I mean, I have lots of thoughts on phones and houses

1687
01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:45.500
and where they should go.

1688
01:10:45.500 --> 01:10:49.500
But if you were to have instead of arguing the,

1689
01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:50.500
what are you talking about?

1690
01:10:50.500 --> 01:10:52.500
You're on your phone all the time.

1691
01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:55.500
And instead said,

1692
01:10:55.500 --> 01:10:59.500
I can see how that would make you feel like I'm not paying attention to you.

1693
01:10:59.500 --> 01:11:01.500
And letting her respond to that.

1694
01:11:01.500 --> 01:11:03.500
And you say, look, I don't want to,

1695
01:11:03.500 --> 01:11:06.500
me being honest, this is not at all me trying to signal that

1696
01:11:06.500 --> 01:11:09.500
I'm not trying to be here with you.

1697
01:11:09.500 --> 01:11:12.500
I'm trying to escape on you and have that conversation.

1698
01:11:12.500 --> 01:11:14.500
And that's where you can say,

1699
01:11:14.500 --> 01:11:16.500
it is important to me that I have these things.

1700
01:11:16.500 --> 01:11:19.500
And for me to be able to connect with you and kind of rest my brain,

1701
01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:21.500
I need to take care of these things.

1702
01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:23.500
What's the best way that I can do that?

1703
01:11:23.500 --> 01:11:26.500
I think then that's when you actually are able to have a conversation

1704
01:11:26.500 --> 01:11:28.500
of like, let's make a game plan.

1705
01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:34.500
That makes sense because if you put your inconvenience over her comfort,

1706
01:11:34.500 --> 01:11:38.500
she will always discredit that to you.

1707
01:11:38.500 --> 01:11:42.500
Your bank account will always continue to go low.

1708
01:11:42.500 --> 01:11:44.500
And if, but if you say, look,

1709
01:11:44.500 --> 01:11:48.500
I'm willing to do a little bit of inconvenient things to make you feel better,

1710
01:11:48.500 --> 01:11:50.500
make you more comfortable.

1711
01:11:50.500 --> 01:11:52.500
I mean, that only grows your account.

1712
01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:59.500
I mean, that when you have a relationship that can last all that longer.

1713
01:11:59.500 --> 01:12:05.500
I think I'm slightly traumatized because I think the model that I had

1714
01:12:05.500 --> 01:12:10.500
of relationships meant that someone can increasingly sort of encroach on your freedom

1715
01:12:10.500 --> 01:12:13.500
until you are virtually powerless.

1716
01:12:13.500 --> 01:12:15.500
I think that's a lot of guys.

1717
01:12:15.500 --> 01:12:17.500
I've certainly felt that.

1718
01:12:17.500 --> 01:12:19.500
Yeah, so I try and fight back.

1719
01:12:19.500 --> 01:12:21.500
And sometimes I think I overdo it.

1720
01:12:21.500 --> 01:12:23.500
And this is one such example where,

1721
01:12:23.500 --> 01:12:25.500
actually, objectively, when I hear myself say,

1722
01:12:25.500 --> 01:12:29.500
she asked me not to be on my phone in bed.

1723
01:12:29.500 --> 01:12:31.500
I'm like, well, that's kind of a reasonable request to be honest.

1724
01:12:31.500 --> 01:12:33.500
The bedroom can be a place where we just go on the fence.

1725
01:12:33.500 --> 01:12:35.500
I could just do it in my office and then come to bed when I'm ready.

1726
01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:40.500
But I think I get my backup because I've just got so many examples of men

1727
01:12:40.500 --> 01:12:42.500
who didn't stand up for themselves.

1728
01:12:42.500 --> 01:12:44.500
And then we're rendered powerless down the line.

1729
01:12:44.500 --> 01:12:46.500
So it's like, if I give you this,

1730
01:12:46.500 --> 01:12:49.500
and tomorrow you're going to say, maybe you can't be on my phone in the kitchen.

1731
01:12:49.500 --> 01:12:51.500
And then maybe I can't be on my phone in the bathroom.

1732
01:12:51.500 --> 01:12:55.500
So I just thought, wait, if I just stand up for myself here, then I just hold off.

1733
01:12:55.500 --> 01:12:59.500
What I'm not all saying is that the guy go, yeah, sure, that's fine.

1734
01:12:59.500 --> 01:13:01.500
And the chastro is something like, yeah, sure, that's fine.

1735
01:13:01.500 --> 01:13:04.500
And you're super passive with everything.

1736
01:13:04.500 --> 01:13:07.500
That's where I think you do feel like you're just, you look around,

1737
01:13:07.500 --> 01:13:11.500
you've given up everything to where you don't feel like I have anything to grab on to.

1738
01:13:11.500 --> 01:13:13.500
I want to throw in another example that a lot of people relate to.

1739
01:13:13.500 --> 01:13:16.500
A lot of men have like a hobby with their guy friends,

1740
01:13:16.500 --> 01:13:20.500
like watching the football, talking shit in the group chat.

1741
01:13:20.500 --> 01:13:23.500
I think it's so important to defend those things,

1742
01:13:23.500 --> 01:13:25.500
even for her attraction to you.

1743
01:13:25.500 --> 01:13:29.500
I think I have no evidence to say that this is true, just a feeling.

1744
01:13:29.500 --> 01:13:32.500
I think to some degree that my partner likes the fact that I'll stand up for myself

1745
01:13:32.500 --> 01:13:33.500
in certain areas.

1746
01:13:33.500 --> 01:13:36.500
And I'll say, no, no, no, no, this is me time, this is for me.

1747
01:13:36.500 --> 01:13:37.500
I agree.

1748
01:13:37.500 --> 01:13:39.500
And I can imagine the opposite, the passivity,

1749
01:13:39.500 --> 01:13:43.500
or kind of rolling over as being a really like unattractive thing.

1750
01:13:43.500 --> 01:13:44.500
Absolutely.

1751
01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:48.500
I think where you are laying yourself down or just rolling over,

1752
01:13:48.500 --> 01:13:51.500
that is, that can't be very unattractive.

1753
01:13:51.500 --> 01:13:53.500
It's, you need to have a backbone.

1754
01:13:53.500 --> 01:13:56.500
At the same time, you can't be so extreme that you're ways the only way.

1755
01:13:56.500 --> 01:13:58.500
But when you choose to say, no, no, this is,

1756
01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:00.500
I'm going to willing to take a stain here.

1757
01:14:00.500 --> 01:14:04.500
Then that's, I think to me, it sends a signal of strength, right?

1758
01:14:04.500 --> 01:14:06.500
A strength of mine, a strength of will.

1759
01:14:06.500 --> 01:14:09.500
But for me, when you have those things that are your hobbies,

1760
01:14:09.500 --> 01:14:11.500
the things that you really like,

1761
01:14:11.500 --> 01:14:15.500
a sign of a good relationship is that she's going to be happy.

1762
01:14:15.500 --> 01:14:17.500
You get to do those because they make you happy.

1763
01:14:17.500 --> 01:14:20.500
Even though she might hate it and think it's annoying and it's weird,

1764
01:14:20.500 --> 01:14:24.500
and you know, you're taking up that space in the garage and whatever,

1765
01:14:24.500 --> 01:14:27.500
but if it makes you happy,

1766
01:14:27.500 --> 01:14:30.500
and they know that this is your space and this is your time,

1767
01:14:30.500 --> 01:14:35.500
because I, I, you have to have those things that fill you up, right?

1768
01:14:35.500 --> 01:14:38.500
And the truth is, the marriage isn't enough.

1769
01:14:38.500 --> 01:14:39.500
The kids aren't enough.

1770
01:14:39.500 --> 01:14:40.500
Your job's not enough.

1771
01:14:40.500 --> 01:14:44.500
You have to have things that personally for you by yourself.

1772
01:14:44.500 --> 01:14:48.500
If your thing is to go to a pond and go feed ducks, go do it.

1773
01:14:48.500 --> 01:14:51.500
You know, to be able to fill yourself up.

1774
01:14:51.500 --> 01:14:56.500
If, if, I know for parents, early parents,

1775
01:14:56.500 --> 01:14:59.500
there's this, this mindset of I have to do with my kid all the time.

1776
01:14:59.500 --> 01:15:03.500
I can't ever leave my kid that I need to just be there.

1777
01:15:03.500 --> 01:15:07.500
But what you find is you'll be so much better

1778
01:15:07.500 --> 01:15:11.500
when you actually go take care of yourself and go on that guy's trip.

1779
01:15:11.500 --> 01:15:16.500
Go play that round of golf or whatever it is that's actually going to feed you

1780
01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:19.500
and fill you up, and then I can be there for you all the more.

1781
01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:23.500
I think some people's partners, they don't like that.

1782
01:15:23.500 --> 01:15:27.500
Some people are in a relationship where their partner cuts out

1783
01:15:27.500 --> 01:15:31.500
as much of these things as they possibly can so that they can control their partner.

1784
01:15:31.500 --> 01:15:34.500
I mean, I think we've all got a friend in the group chat,

1785
01:15:34.500 --> 01:15:38.500
who seems to have lost all their freedom

1786
01:15:38.500 --> 01:15:41.500
and their autonomy and agency since they've been in that relationship.

1787
01:15:41.500 --> 01:15:42.500
They say they're on a leash.

1788
01:15:42.500 --> 01:15:44.500
Yeah, they can never come to the thing.

1789
01:15:44.500 --> 01:15:46.500
That's not okay.

1790
01:15:46.500 --> 01:15:50.500
And it appears to be a consequence of boundaries,

1791
01:15:50.500 --> 01:15:56.500
like not reinforcing your boundaries early.

1792
01:15:56.500 --> 01:15:59.500
It appears to me to be a bit of a slippery slope boundaries.

1793
01:15:59.500 --> 01:16:01.500
Do you know what I mean?

1794
01:16:01.500 --> 01:16:04.500
Like where you make a concession and because you've made a concession,

1795
01:16:04.500 --> 01:16:07.500
they're more likely to pursue another concession.

1796
01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:12.500
And then before you know it, you're behind bars alone.

1797
01:16:12.500 --> 01:16:16.500
Yeah, and frustrated and wondering how you got here.

1798
01:16:16.500 --> 01:16:19.500
I know we've spoke about boundaries in the past.

1799
01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:25.500
To me, it ultimately comes down to am I protecting the priority?

1800
01:16:25.500 --> 01:16:29.500
So if I know that my marriage is the priority,

1801
01:16:29.500 --> 01:16:32.500
I'm going to set boundaries that protect that.

1802
01:16:32.500 --> 01:16:34.500
I mean, for me and my life right now,

1803
01:16:34.500 --> 01:16:38.500
whether I'm working on a book or speaking or a podcast or whatever,

1804
01:16:38.500 --> 01:16:43.500
it's in my setting the boundary up to be protecting my family

1805
01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:45.500
and my relationship.

1806
01:16:45.500 --> 01:16:49.500
So you have to first define what is the priority here.

1807
01:16:49.500 --> 01:16:55.500
So if the priority is knowing that we want to be,

1808
01:16:55.500 --> 01:16:57.500
even your partner want to be in relationship

1809
01:16:57.500 --> 01:17:00.500
and you know, make sure that Thursday is date night.

1810
01:17:00.500 --> 01:17:03.500
Okay, that's nothing gets scheduled on date night.

1811
01:17:03.500 --> 01:17:06.500
There's certain things that just aren't movable. The answer's no.

1812
01:17:06.500 --> 01:17:08.500
And when you can have those really hard nose,

1813
01:17:08.500 --> 01:17:14.500
it makes feeling the time of everything else all that much easier.

1814
01:17:14.500 --> 01:17:16.500
But that's, I mean, it ultimately comes down to,

1815
01:17:16.500 --> 01:17:20.500
are you being real about it? Are you being fake about it?

1816
01:17:20.500 --> 01:17:24.500
In your view, you talk about being nice and being kind.

1817
01:17:24.500 --> 01:17:26.500
I've heard you talk about this on your podcast.

1818
01:17:26.500 --> 01:17:29.500
What's the difference between being a nice person and a kind person?

1819
01:17:29.500 --> 01:17:31.500
Which one should I spy to be?

1820
01:17:31.500 --> 01:17:36.500
Stop being nice at the expense of being real.

1821
01:17:36.500 --> 01:17:39.500
So nice is something that we got thought really early on.

1822
01:17:39.500 --> 01:17:42.500
Hey, be nice, play nice.

1823
01:17:42.500 --> 01:17:46.500
And if you believe forever and always

1824
01:17:46.500 --> 01:17:48.500
that being nice serves you well,

1825
01:17:48.500 --> 01:17:50.500
you will ultimately serve it.

1826
01:17:50.500 --> 01:17:52.500
You will people please.

1827
01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:54.500
You will only choose to say the nice thing.

1828
01:17:54.500 --> 01:17:58.500
You will, nice is very surface.

1829
01:17:58.500 --> 01:18:01.500
If you went on a date with somebody and I was like,

1830
01:18:01.500 --> 01:18:02.500
how's the date?

1831
01:18:02.500 --> 01:18:04.500
And you said, she was nice.

1832
01:18:04.500 --> 01:18:05.500
Yeah, yeah.

1833
01:18:05.500 --> 01:18:07.500
Yeah. Is that mean that was good?

1834
01:18:07.500 --> 01:18:08.500
No, of course.

1835
01:18:08.500 --> 01:18:10.500
But you want to say the nice thing.

1836
01:18:10.500 --> 01:18:14.500
And so it becomes very much about pleasantries of what's

1837
01:18:14.500 --> 01:18:19.500
something that is politically correct or whatever it is.

1838
01:18:19.500 --> 01:18:21.500
Kind is very deep.

1839
01:18:21.500 --> 01:18:23.500
It's related to the word kin.

1840
01:18:23.500 --> 01:18:24.500
It's connection.

1841
01:18:24.500 --> 01:18:27.500
So where nice is concerned about surface,

1842
01:18:27.500 --> 01:18:30.500
kind is worried about connection.

1843
01:18:30.500 --> 01:18:34.500
So nice people say, I can't tell them the truth.

1844
01:18:34.500 --> 01:18:35.500
That wouldn't be nice.

1845
01:18:35.500 --> 01:18:36.500
That wouldn't be nice.

1846
01:18:36.500 --> 01:18:38.500
I can't say that.

1847
01:18:38.500 --> 01:18:44.500
Kind says, I care about you enough to say the truth.

1848
01:18:44.500 --> 01:18:47.500
I care about you enough to tell you the truth.

1849
01:18:47.500 --> 01:18:50.500
So when you have the chance, don't choose nice

1850
01:18:50.500 --> 01:18:52.500
at the expense of being real.

1851
01:18:52.500 --> 01:18:54.500
Choose the kind thing.

1852
01:18:54.500 --> 01:18:58.500
If you and I were in a conversation

1853
01:18:58.500 --> 01:19:00.500
and I was like, I could really, I could just go,

1854
01:19:00.500 --> 01:19:01.500
yeah, man, that sounds great.

1855
01:19:01.500 --> 01:19:03.500
With the decision you're going to make.

1856
01:19:03.500 --> 01:19:05.500
Because I just, I don't want to upset you.

1857
01:19:05.500 --> 01:19:06.500
That would be nice.

1858
01:19:06.500 --> 01:19:10.500
Versus me, Sam, Stephen, I have to tell you,

1859
01:19:10.500 --> 01:19:13.500
man, this doesn't feel right to me.

1860
01:19:13.500 --> 01:19:18.500
Which one's the kind thing of telling you the actual truth?

1861
01:19:18.500 --> 01:19:19.500
It's being authentic to it.

1862
01:19:19.500 --> 01:19:20.500
It's a lot of people.

1863
01:19:20.500 --> 01:19:22.500
They look back and they're just people pleasing.

1864
01:19:22.500 --> 01:19:25.500
That's all they've been because I've always chosen what's nice.

1865
01:19:25.500 --> 01:19:26.500
Not what's kind.

1866
01:19:26.500 --> 01:19:28.500
You must get a lot of messages from a lot of people,

1867
01:19:28.500 --> 01:19:30.500
pleases all the time.

1868
01:19:30.500 --> 01:19:32.500
And what is it they want from you?

1869
01:19:32.500 --> 01:19:35.500
They're wanting to know how to stop pleasing other people

1870
01:19:35.500 --> 01:19:37.500
and to start pleasing themselves.

1871
01:19:37.500 --> 01:19:42.500
How to always say that there's not a problem with people pleasing

1872
01:19:42.500 --> 01:19:43.500
as long as you're one of them.

1873
01:19:43.500 --> 01:19:48.500
It's okay to do things that other people ask you to do

1874
01:19:48.500 --> 01:19:50.500
and you want to serve other people.

1875
01:19:50.500 --> 01:19:52.500
I'm not saying it in a servitude way.

1876
01:19:52.500 --> 01:19:55.500
I can never have any of my own voice.

1877
01:19:55.500 --> 01:20:00.500
It's where you constantly

1878
01:20:00.500 --> 01:20:06.500
or put yourself in inconvenient places

1879
01:20:06.500 --> 01:20:08.500
for the sake of other people,

1880
01:20:08.500 --> 01:20:10.500
hoping that they will see your true value.

1881
01:20:10.500 --> 01:20:14.500
So they conflate the pleasure of others

1882
01:20:14.500 --> 01:20:16.500
with the value of themselves.

1883
01:20:16.500 --> 01:20:19.500
And so, meaning, I mean nothing to myself

1884
01:20:19.500 --> 01:20:21.500
if you're not happy with me.

1885
01:20:21.500 --> 01:20:23.500
I mean nothing to myself.

1886
01:20:23.500 --> 01:20:25.500
If I can't please you.

1887
01:20:25.500 --> 01:20:26.500
You want this?

1888
01:20:26.500 --> 01:20:27.500
Oh, okay, I'll go get it.

1889
01:20:27.500 --> 01:20:28.500
You tell me to do this.

1890
01:20:28.500 --> 01:20:29.500
I already thought about this.

1891
01:20:29.500 --> 01:20:33.500
And they've forgotten their own sense.

1892
01:20:33.500 --> 01:20:36.500
And so I've met people that have, you know,

1893
01:20:36.500 --> 01:20:39.500
a lot of it's also early childhood.

1894
01:20:39.500 --> 01:20:44.500
They learned that to save the marriage between mom and dad,

1895
01:20:44.500 --> 01:20:46.500
they need to be everything to everybody.

1896
01:20:46.500 --> 01:20:47.500
They have to give up.

1897
01:20:47.500 --> 01:20:52.500
They've missed childhood in order to please everybody else.

1898
01:20:52.500 --> 01:20:55.500
And so it becomes a pattern of safety.

1899
01:20:55.500 --> 01:20:58.500
It's a survival skill of knowing for me to have

1900
01:20:58.500 --> 01:21:01.500
to survive in this, for me to have worth.

1901
01:21:01.500 --> 01:21:04.500
Well, I can't do it unless everybody else is happy with me.

1902
01:21:04.500 --> 01:21:06.500
Are there any case studies that come to mind

1903
01:21:06.500 --> 01:21:07.500
of people that have read your work

1904
01:21:07.500 --> 01:21:09.500
and have made real transformations

1905
01:21:09.500 --> 01:21:12.500
that have shocked you or made you happy

1906
01:21:12.500 --> 01:21:15.500
or proven to the profundity of being able

1907
01:21:15.500 --> 01:21:18.500
to take control of conversation?

1908
01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:22.500
We took us a survey poll within my membership.

1909
01:21:22.500 --> 01:21:26.500
And it was already, I think it was like 93% of people,

1910
01:21:26.500 --> 01:21:31.500
even in the first three chapters of my book,

1911
01:21:31.500 --> 01:21:34.500
it had already significantly impacted them

1912
01:21:34.500 --> 01:21:36.500
in their job, their family,

1913
01:21:36.500 --> 01:21:38.500
and exactly what they were reading the book for.

1914
01:21:38.500 --> 01:21:40.500
Because everybody picks it up for the conversation

1915
01:21:40.500 --> 01:21:41.500
they have in their mind.

1916
01:21:41.500 --> 01:21:44.500
You know, people don't watch my content to handle,

1917
01:21:44.500 --> 01:21:46.500
to know how to handle the last conversation.

1918
01:21:46.500 --> 01:21:49.500
They watch to know how to handle the next one.

1919
01:21:49.500 --> 01:21:52.500
And so to be able to provide the results

1920
01:21:52.500 --> 01:21:57.500
that they're wanting is a blessing.

1921
01:21:57.500 --> 01:22:00.500
I've just finished writing my third book.

1922
01:22:00.500 --> 01:22:02.500
I haven't found up the title yet,

1923
01:22:02.500 --> 01:22:04.500
but I have started walking up some different designs.

1924
01:22:04.500 --> 01:22:06.500
And I've been doing this with Adobe Express,

1925
01:22:06.500 --> 01:22:08.500
which is one of our sponsors.

1926
01:22:08.500 --> 01:22:10.500
What I love about Adobe Express is that it makes it so easy

1927
01:22:10.500 --> 01:22:12.500
for me to obsess over the tiniest details,

1928
01:22:12.500 --> 01:22:15.500
the typography, the font, the color, the text placement.

1929
01:22:15.500 --> 01:22:17.500
The stuff that might sound petty to most people,

1930
01:22:17.500 --> 01:22:20.500
but actually compounds to create something that stands out.

1931
01:22:20.500 --> 01:22:23.500
Something that's one better than the rest.

1932
01:22:23.500 --> 01:22:25.500
And designing my cover art has reminded me

1933
01:22:25.500 --> 01:22:27.500
of how many creative things I've learned over the year.

1934
01:22:27.500 --> 01:22:30.500
But it's also reminded me that there are so many creative minds

1935
01:22:30.500 --> 01:22:33.500
around me that are also sitting on their own secrets.

1936
01:22:33.500 --> 01:22:36.500
So I've created the one better guide in Adobe Express

1937
01:22:36.500 --> 01:22:38.500
to bring those tips to you.

1938
01:22:38.500 --> 01:22:39.500
And in it, you'll find principles

1939
01:22:39.500 --> 01:22:41.500
from the very, very best in their industry

1940
01:22:41.500 --> 01:22:44.500
turned into quick and easy practices for you to apply.

1941
01:22:45.500 --> 01:22:47.500
So you can train yourself to create exactly

1942
01:22:47.500 --> 01:22:49.500
like the best performing teams in the world do.

1943
01:22:49.500 --> 01:22:52.500
Just head over to adobe.ly slash one better

1944
01:22:52.500 --> 01:22:54.500
to download Adobe Express now.

1945
01:22:54.500 --> 01:22:56.500
And make sure you visit the Learn tab

1946
01:22:56.500 --> 01:23:00.500
to discover how you can become one better than the rest.

1947
01:23:00.500 --> 01:23:02.500
Is there a particular moment of conflict

1948
01:23:02.500 --> 01:23:04.500
which you stays with you the most

1949
01:23:04.500 --> 01:23:07.500
when you think about a difficult conversation in your life?

1950
01:23:09.500 --> 01:23:10.500
Yeah.

1951
01:23:10.500 --> 01:23:14.500
And there was one that I talk about my book

1952
01:23:14.500 --> 01:23:17.500
that was probably the most gut wrenching at that time

1953
01:23:17.500 --> 01:23:20.500
was me leaving the law firm where I was at.

1954
01:23:20.500 --> 01:23:22.500
I haven't talked to my dad about leaving that firm.

1955
01:23:22.500 --> 01:23:25.500
But that's, let's say that's in the book.

1956
01:23:25.500 --> 01:23:27.500
What's fresh for me now?

1957
01:23:27.500 --> 01:23:28.500
You want to talk about that?

1958
01:23:28.500 --> 01:23:31.500
I mean, what's fresh for me now is conversations

1959
01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:34.500
that I've had with my wife with Sierra.

1960
01:23:34.500 --> 01:23:39.500
And I'm having a hard time reaching

1961
01:23:40.500 --> 01:23:42.500
and she's having a hard time reaching for me

1962
01:23:42.500 --> 01:23:45.500
where I kind of just go static

1963
01:23:46.500 --> 01:23:49.500
where I do feel sad, I do feel remorseful

1964
01:23:49.500 --> 01:23:52.500
or I'm trying to, and I have a hard time expressing it.

1965
01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:55.500
So the best thing I can do in that mind is I use my words

1966
01:23:55.500 --> 01:23:59.500
to be able to say, you know,

1967
01:23:59.500 --> 01:24:02.500
I feel regret for what's happened or what I've done.

1968
01:24:02.500 --> 01:24:04.500
And I may not be shown right now,

1969
01:24:04.500 --> 01:24:07.500
but this is not something I'm proud of.

1970
01:24:07.500 --> 01:24:10.500
To be at least able to show in my words how I'm feeling.

1971
01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:13.500
So it, let's say for example,

1972
01:24:13.500 --> 01:24:17.500
it's about anything related to,

1973
01:24:17.500 --> 01:24:19.500
if it could be any argument,

1974
01:24:19.500 --> 01:24:22.500
really with a husband and a wife or a spouse or partner

1975
01:24:22.500 --> 01:24:23.500
or whatever it is.

1976
01:24:23.500 --> 01:24:26.500
But we had one not too long ago

1977
01:24:26.500 --> 01:24:31.500
where we knew we were going to be traveling for a bit.

1978
01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:33.500
And sometimes if it's just the two of us,

1979
01:24:33.500 --> 01:24:34.500
what's going to happen?

1980
01:24:34.500 --> 01:24:37.500
You're going to have some spats

1981
01:24:37.500 --> 01:24:39.500
about probably the dumbest things

1982
01:24:39.500 --> 01:24:40.500
you could probably have a fight about,

1983
01:24:40.500 --> 01:24:42.500
but that's what happens.

1984
01:24:42.500 --> 01:24:45.500
And I said to her,

1985
01:24:45.500 --> 01:24:48.500
I was like, well, if we do this and do that,

1986
01:24:48.500 --> 01:24:51.500
we're probably not probably going to argue about it,

1987
01:24:51.500 --> 01:24:52.500
it's going to be fine.

1988
01:24:52.500 --> 01:24:54.500
And she said to me, she said,

1989
01:24:54.500 --> 01:24:57.500
well, either way, it's good.

1990
01:24:57.500 --> 01:25:01.500
Meaning, if you don't argue about something great,

1991
01:25:01.500 --> 01:25:03.500
but if we do argue about it,

1992
01:25:03.500 --> 01:25:04.500
that's good too,

1993
01:25:04.500 --> 01:25:06.500
to be able to see it as a chance

1994
01:25:06.500 --> 01:25:08.500
to understand each other a little bit more,

1995
01:25:08.500 --> 01:25:11.500
to know each other a little bit more.

1996
01:25:11.500 --> 01:25:16.500
And it's not without being radically honest

1997
01:25:16.500 --> 01:25:20.500
with the person you want to be with.

1998
01:25:20.500 --> 01:25:23.500
And that's hard for a lot of people.

1999
01:25:23.500 --> 01:25:25.500
Had a friend of mine say to me the other day

2000
01:25:25.500 --> 01:25:27.500
that the thing that annoys her most about his wife

2001
01:25:27.500 --> 01:25:28.500
is just how long she takes to get ready.

2002
01:25:28.500 --> 01:25:30.500
And he really like offloaded it to me.

2003
01:25:30.500 --> 01:25:33.500
In a way where I'm like, this is a problem for him.

2004
01:25:33.500 --> 01:25:34.500
Yeah.

2005
01:25:34.500 --> 01:25:35.500
She just takes so long to get ready.

2006
01:25:35.500 --> 01:25:37.500
And she's like, which means they're always late to things.

2007
01:25:37.500 --> 01:25:39.500
A lot of guys can relate to this, including myself.

2008
01:25:39.500 --> 01:25:42.500
But the way he said it to me was surprising.

2009
01:25:42.500 --> 01:25:43.500
And I remember thinking,

2010
01:25:43.500 --> 01:25:46.500
should he just go and have this conversation with her

2011
01:25:46.500 --> 01:25:49.500
or is this like an illegitimate concern to race?

2012
01:25:49.500 --> 01:25:51.500
And I think this sometimes,

2013
01:25:51.500 --> 01:25:53.500
because you were talking about your experience with Sierra

2014
01:25:53.500 --> 01:25:55.500
and her saying like, either way, it's a good thing,

2015
01:25:55.500 --> 01:25:59.500
are all arguments warranted?

2016
01:25:59.500 --> 01:26:00.500
Like is that argument?

2017
01:26:00.500 --> 01:26:03.500
You take too long to get ready and it's pissing me off.

2018
01:26:03.500 --> 01:26:08.500
Is that a valid thing to raise with your partner?

2019
01:26:08.500 --> 01:26:11.500
And therapy, they say if it's hysterical,

2020
01:26:11.500 --> 01:26:13.500
it's historical.

2021
01:26:13.500 --> 01:26:15.500
Meaning if it's really that big of a deal,

2022
01:26:15.500 --> 01:26:17.500
then there's probably something deeper going on.

2023
01:26:17.500 --> 01:26:19.500
If it's really affecting you that much,

2024
01:26:19.500 --> 01:26:20.500
it's like those people who say,

2025
01:26:20.500 --> 01:26:22.500
well, he's always pushing my buttons.

2026
01:26:22.500 --> 01:26:24.500
I ask, why is there a button?

2027
01:26:24.500 --> 01:26:27.500
You know, if it's always getting you worked up,

2028
01:26:27.500 --> 01:26:31.500
there's probably something deeper that you're not noticing.

2029
01:26:31.500 --> 01:26:33.500
It's probably related to something that happened

2030
01:26:33.500 --> 01:26:38.500
when he was a kid or something that maybe it's...

2031
01:26:38.500 --> 01:26:41.500
Here, you're gonna give a good example.

2032
01:26:41.500 --> 01:26:46.500
You know, and our marriage, I'm the spender.

2033
01:26:46.500 --> 01:26:47.500
She's the saver.

2034
01:26:47.500 --> 01:26:50.500
Okay. She can turn a penny into a dime.

2035
01:26:50.500 --> 01:26:51.500
All right?

2036
01:26:51.500 --> 01:26:54.500
You can pinch a penny into a dime.

2037
01:26:54.500 --> 01:26:56.500
And she got really frustrated with me

2038
01:26:56.500 --> 01:26:59.500
with like, why do you always need the nicest thing?

2039
01:26:59.500 --> 01:27:00.500
All right? And that's typically...

2040
01:27:00.500 --> 01:27:03.500
She has an option of several things.

2041
01:27:03.500 --> 01:27:05.500
Even if I don't know the price tags,

2042
01:27:05.500 --> 01:27:07.500
I typically end up going with the one that's most expensive

2043
01:27:07.500 --> 01:27:09.500
and that infuriates her.

2044
01:27:09.500 --> 01:27:10.500
Because she wouldn't do that.

2045
01:27:10.500 --> 01:27:12.500
She's gonna wait for it to go on sale.

2046
01:27:12.500 --> 01:27:14.500
She could have something she really wants

2047
01:27:14.500 --> 01:27:16.500
and she's just gonna track it forever in her mind

2048
01:27:16.500 --> 01:27:17.500
until it goes on sale.

2049
01:27:17.500 --> 01:27:19.500
And that gives her a satisfaction.

2050
01:27:19.500 --> 01:27:21.500
Me? That's just goodbye.

2051
01:27:21.500 --> 01:27:23.500
And I'm not saying I'm crazy...

2052
01:27:24.500 --> 01:27:26.500
I'm not like some crazy spender.

2053
01:27:26.500 --> 01:27:29.500
But this is an issue that has always bothered her

2054
01:27:29.500 --> 01:27:31.500
and bothered me.

2055
01:27:31.500 --> 01:27:34.500
And what we had come to find out,

2056
01:27:34.500 --> 01:27:36.500
we had actually used this with my AI, actually.

2057
01:27:36.500 --> 01:27:39.500
But what we had come to learn

2058
01:27:39.500 --> 01:27:45.500
is that the reason why it affected me so much,

2059
01:27:45.500 --> 01:27:47.500
like, why do you always use the nice thing?

2060
01:27:47.500 --> 01:27:50.500
Is it related to when I was a kid?

2061
01:27:50.500 --> 01:27:56.500
As the oldest, I didn't get much of the nice thing.

2062
01:27:56.500 --> 01:27:58.500
My stuff was typically,

2063
01:27:58.500 --> 01:28:00.500
hand me down from a friend or something else,

2064
01:28:00.500 --> 01:28:03.500
or I didn't get the nice thing.

2065
01:28:03.500 --> 01:28:05.500
And at some point along the way,

2066
01:28:05.500 --> 01:28:08.500
you equate that to your sense of worth.

2067
01:28:08.500 --> 01:28:10.500
And so when I first had the ability to pay for anything

2068
01:28:10.500 --> 01:28:14.500
for myself, yeah, I bought the on-brand cornflakes.

2069
01:28:14.500 --> 01:28:19.500
You know, I bought the on-brand medication

2070
01:28:19.500 --> 01:28:24.500
because to me that was equal to how I wanted others

2071
01:28:24.500 --> 01:28:25.500
to perceive me.

2072
01:28:25.500 --> 01:28:28.500
And so when she realized that,

2073
01:28:28.500 --> 01:28:30.500
oh, it's not just me wanting to splurge,

2074
01:28:30.500 --> 01:28:32.500
or have some kind of, you know,

2075
01:28:32.500 --> 01:28:35.500
you just think you have to buy the best.

2076
01:28:35.500 --> 01:28:38.500
It was like, no, that's actually it's a reflection of,

2077
01:28:38.500 --> 01:28:40.500
when you buy me something nice,

2078
01:28:40.500 --> 01:28:44.500
I feel like you equate that to how much value I hold

2079
01:28:44.500 --> 01:28:46.500
and not worth buying something nice for.

2080
01:28:46.500 --> 01:28:49.500
And so it was related a lot to my stuff.

2081
01:28:49.500 --> 01:28:51.500
And we got to talk the same about her stuff

2082
01:28:51.500 --> 01:28:54.500
of why she doesn't want to buy the thing.

2083
01:28:54.500 --> 01:28:56.500
So it's like that.

2084
01:28:56.500 --> 01:28:58.500
Having these super conversations

2085
01:28:58.500 --> 01:29:00.500
with your friend of why is it bother her

2086
01:29:00.500 --> 01:29:02.500
when she takes forever to get dressed?

2087
01:29:02.500 --> 01:29:04.500
Well, most likely,

2088
01:29:04.500 --> 01:29:07.500
it's related to something in his past that's bothered him

2089
01:29:07.500 --> 01:29:10.500
that he's not seeing yet.

2090
01:29:10.500 --> 01:29:11.500
Or the conversation worth having?

2091
01:29:11.500 --> 01:29:13.500
Yeah, I think it's absolutely worth having.

2092
01:29:13.500 --> 01:29:16.500
If it's bothering you that much, yeah.

2093
01:29:16.500 --> 01:29:19.500
If it's hysterical, it's historical.

2094
01:29:19.500 --> 01:29:20.500
I think that's a really good point,

2095
01:29:20.500 --> 01:29:24.500
which is we're all just dealing with other people's

2096
01:29:24.500 --> 01:29:26.500
in a child, like we're all dealing with.

2097
01:29:26.500 --> 01:29:28.500
It's just like me as a child facing you as a child.

2098
01:29:28.500 --> 01:29:29.500
I know we look like adults now.

2099
01:29:29.500 --> 01:29:32.500
I have no great hair, but it's really still,

2100
01:29:32.500 --> 01:29:34.500
us just playing out the stories and narratives

2101
01:29:34.500 --> 01:29:35.500
from our childhood oftentimes.

2102
01:29:35.500 --> 01:29:36.500
You're exactly right.

2103
01:29:36.500 --> 01:29:37.500
They say in therapy,

2104
01:29:37.500 --> 01:29:40.500
the worst thing about parents is that they had parents.

2105
01:29:40.500 --> 01:29:45.500
It's so easy for me just to look at my mom

2106
01:29:45.500 --> 01:29:48.500
and me forget that she had parents

2107
01:29:48.500 --> 01:29:51.500
that what they did to her,

2108
01:29:51.500 --> 01:29:54.500
rather than me just looking at what my parents have done to me.

2109
01:29:54.500 --> 01:29:58.500
That's the definition of the generational cycle.

2110
01:29:58.500 --> 01:30:01.500
It's choosing to do something different

2111
01:30:01.500 --> 01:30:04.500
with who you are and who you want to be in,

2112
01:30:04.500 --> 01:30:07.500
how you want to raise the next generation.

2113
01:30:07.500 --> 01:30:10.500
However, it's all survival skills.

2114
01:30:10.500 --> 01:30:13.500
It's all childhood trauma that's related.

2115
01:30:13.500 --> 01:30:16.500
When people have a section in my book

2116
01:30:16.500 --> 01:30:22.500
of having people define out their own,

2117
01:30:22.500 --> 01:30:25.500
the communication skills they saw growing up

2118
01:30:25.500 --> 01:30:28.500
because most of the time if you feel like arguments

2119
01:30:28.500 --> 01:30:30.500
have to be this big shouting match

2120
01:30:30.500 --> 01:30:31.500
and everybody's yelling

2121
01:30:31.500 --> 01:30:34.500
and it's also typically cultural

2122
01:30:34.500 --> 01:30:37.500
of how certain cultures,

2123
01:30:37.500 --> 01:30:39.500
how they argue and how loud it is

2124
01:30:39.500 --> 01:30:42.500
and if everybody versus their some cultures

2125
01:30:42.500 --> 01:30:45.500
and families that it's very quiet.

2126
01:30:45.500 --> 01:30:48.500
I'll never forget going to a friend's house

2127
01:30:48.500 --> 01:30:51.500
and I was about seven in his parents

2128
01:30:51.500 --> 01:30:54.500
while we're eating cereal like just had at it.

2129
01:30:54.500 --> 01:30:59.500
And I was mortified like arguing, arguing, arguing.

2130
01:30:59.500 --> 01:31:02.500
I mean, yelling at each other

2131
01:31:02.500 --> 01:31:05.500
and I am like bowling head mortified

2132
01:31:05.500 --> 01:31:07.500
and my friend is just eating cereal like,

2133
01:31:07.500 --> 01:31:09.500
hey, I'm bothering him whatsoever.

2134
01:31:09.500 --> 01:31:11.500
That's just another Tuesday.

2135
01:31:11.500 --> 01:31:13.500
Whereas I grew up with,

2136
01:31:13.500 --> 01:31:17.500
if my parents argued, it was going to be in their bedroom.

2137
01:31:17.500 --> 01:31:19.500
I knew if they were going to,

2138
01:31:19.500 --> 01:31:20.500
they went to close the door

2139
01:31:20.500 --> 01:31:22.500
and they were going to have a conversation

2140
01:31:22.500 --> 01:31:24.500
that they didn't want us to hear.

2141
01:31:24.500 --> 01:31:27.500
And so everybody has been modeled something different

2142
01:31:27.500 --> 01:31:31.500
where there's, I've seen it on the negative side

2143
01:31:31.500 --> 01:31:34.500
where people feel like

2144
01:31:34.500 --> 01:31:37.500
you don't really love me unless you want to fight with me.

2145
01:31:37.500 --> 01:31:39.500
It's because that's all they've been modeled.

2146
01:31:39.500 --> 01:31:40.500
Fights.

2147
01:31:40.500 --> 01:31:41.500
They have to say the most hurtful thing.

2148
01:31:41.500 --> 01:31:42.500
They need to be in tears.

2149
01:31:42.500 --> 01:31:44.500
They need to be saying horrible things to each other

2150
01:31:44.500 --> 01:31:47.500
for them to feel any kind of love.

2151
01:31:47.500 --> 01:31:50.500
And I've also seen it where people are wallflower.

2152
01:31:50.500 --> 01:31:52.500
They don't want to say anything.

2153
01:31:52.500 --> 01:31:54.500
They want to be really hesitant

2154
01:31:54.500 --> 01:31:58.500
because bad things happen when they spoke out at home.

2155
01:31:58.500 --> 01:32:01.500
They realized that telling the truth

2156
01:32:01.500 --> 01:32:03.500
wasn't good for them.

2157
01:32:03.500 --> 01:32:05.500
They learned that lies protected them.

2158
01:32:05.500 --> 01:32:07.500
It's interesting when you have one parent

2159
01:32:07.500 --> 01:32:09.500
that conducted themselves in a certain way

2160
01:32:09.500 --> 01:32:11.500
and the other parent was the opposite.

2161
01:32:11.500 --> 01:32:13.500
What then happens to you?

2162
01:32:13.500 --> 01:32:15.500
Like which communication star are you then adopt?

2163
01:32:15.500 --> 01:32:19.500
Which parent takes more of an interest in you

2164
01:32:19.500 --> 01:32:21.500
as where it typically goes.

2165
01:32:21.500 --> 01:32:23.500
The one you're most of the time with.

2166
01:32:23.500 --> 01:32:27.500
And see, I know people who their parents are kind of absent

2167
01:32:27.500 --> 01:32:29.500
but they spend a lot of time with their grandmother.

2168
01:32:29.500 --> 01:32:33.500
And so I know a guy who he sounds just like his southern

2169
01:32:33.500 --> 01:32:34.500
grandmother from Kentucky.

2170
01:32:34.500 --> 01:32:38.500
Because that's who he spent most of his time with.

2171
01:32:38.500 --> 01:32:42.500
And so it's who takes the most interest in you.

2172
01:32:42.500 --> 01:32:45.500
It's where the parents...

2173
01:32:45.500 --> 01:32:50.500
What I find so interesting and communication

2174
01:32:50.500 --> 01:32:54.500
we talk everything is learned from how we were raised

2175
01:32:54.500 --> 01:32:58.500
is at one point there is a utility to what you were doing.

2176
01:32:58.500 --> 01:33:00.500
There is a utility to lie.

2177
01:33:00.500 --> 01:33:01.500
It protected you.

2178
01:33:01.500 --> 01:33:02.500
Protected maybe your mom.

2179
01:33:02.500 --> 01:33:03.500
It protected maybe your dad.

2180
01:33:03.500 --> 01:33:05.500
There is a utility to it.

2181
01:33:05.500 --> 01:33:07.500
There is a utility to manipulating.

2182
01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:11.500
To be able to say things weren't this way in order to keep the family together.

2183
01:33:11.500 --> 01:33:15.500
So there is a utility to the very skill that you still have

2184
01:33:15.500 --> 01:33:18.500
and eventually it catches up with you.

2185
01:33:18.500 --> 01:33:20.500
What is it about our communication?

2186
01:33:20.500 --> 01:33:23.500
Do you think that makes us accidentally disliked by the people?

2187
01:33:23.500 --> 01:33:25.500
It sounds fake.

2188
01:33:25.500 --> 01:33:26.500
It sounds fake.

2189
01:33:26.500 --> 01:33:28.500
And how does it sound fake?

2190
01:33:28.500 --> 01:33:30.500
Give me some color.

2191
01:33:30.500 --> 01:33:33.500
If you want to know the secret, if somebody's being fake with you,

2192
01:33:33.500 --> 01:33:36.500
there's really three things that you got to know.

2193
01:33:36.500 --> 01:33:41.500
Number one is what I call bestie bombing.

2194
01:33:41.500 --> 01:33:42.500
Bestie bombing?

2195
01:33:42.500 --> 01:33:43.500
Yeah.

2196
01:33:43.500 --> 01:33:46.500
So instead of love bombing, it's bestie bombing.

2197
01:33:46.500 --> 01:33:48.500
I have people coming to me all the time.

2198
01:33:48.500 --> 01:33:50.500
I feel like somebody's being fake with them.

2199
01:33:50.500 --> 01:33:52.500
And what they're doing is it's, oh my gosh,

2200
01:33:52.500 --> 01:33:54.500
we're literally the same person.

2201
01:33:54.500 --> 01:33:55.500
I think we're best friends.

2202
01:33:55.500 --> 01:33:57.500
We just met.

2203
01:33:57.500 --> 01:34:00.500
Or you tell me, we're just standing next to each other at the same party.

2204
01:34:00.500 --> 01:34:02.500
Oh, we've got to go, oh my gosh.

2205
01:34:02.500 --> 01:34:03.500
You're my bestie.

2206
01:34:03.500 --> 01:34:04.500
You're at my soulmate.

2207
01:34:04.500 --> 01:34:10.500
And it's like they give way too much right out of the gate of how much they love you.

2208
01:34:10.500 --> 01:34:12.500
And it's nothing.

2209
01:34:12.500 --> 01:34:14.500
It's not what secure people do.

2210
01:34:14.500 --> 01:34:16.500
Don't attach to you instantly.

2211
01:34:16.500 --> 01:34:18.500
It's not full of manipulation.

2212
01:34:18.500 --> 01:34:20.500
No, it's a form of insecurity.

2213
01:34:20.500 --> 01:34:24.500
It's a form because it would be manipulation if they actually meant it.

2214
01:34:24.500 --> 01:34:26.500
But they don't.

2215
01:34:26.500 --> 01:34:34.500
It's these inauthentic relationships that all of a sudden is like,

2216
01:34:34.500 --> 01:34:36.500
oh my gosh, we're going to be best friends.

2217
01:34:36.500 --> 01:34:38.500
I love you so much.

2218
01:34:38.500 --> 01:34:41.500
I don't even know your last name.

2219
01:34:41.500 --> 01:34:43.500
What are you talking about?

2220
01:34:43.500 --> 01:34:45.500
You see that a lot?

2221
01:34:45.500 --> 01:34:47.500
Two is the over-compliments.

2222
01:34:47.500 --> 01:34:54.500
We all have this sixth sense to be able to sniff out if that's real or not.

2223
01:34:54.500 --> 01:34:57.500
Like nobody needs to teach you if it's a fake laugh or not.

2224
01:34:57.500 --> 01:34:59.500
You know what I mean?

2225
01:34:59.500 --> 01:35:00.500
Yeah.

2226
01:35:00.500 --> 01:35:01.500
I don't know.

2227
01:35:01.500 --> 01:35:02.500
Was that real or not?

2228
01:35:02.500 --> 01:35:04.500
It's so funny.

2229
01:35:04.500 --> 01:35:05.500
Yeah.

2230
01:35:05.500 --> 01:35:08.500
Because we think we can spliver analysis fake laugh and we're exposed.

2231
01:35:08.500 --> 01:35:09.500
Exactly.

2232
01:35:09.500 --> 01:35:10.500
Yeah.

2233
01:35:10.500 --> 01:35:11.500
That's exactly right.

2234
01:35:11.500 --> 01:35:12.500
We have to teach that to you.

2235
01:35:12.500 --> 01:35:15.500
Nobody had to say, hey, if you hear like this, it's a fake laugh.

2236
01:35:15.500 --> 01:35:16.500
No, no, no.

2237
01:35:16.500 --> 01:35:17.500
We all as humans.

2238
01:35:17.500 --> 01:35:19.500
We have an ability, a sense, to go.

2239
01:35:19.500 --> 01:35:21.500
And I had that in Sanrio.

2240
01:35:21.500 --> 01:35:22.500
That's not a real smile.

2241
01:35:22.500 --> 01:35:26.500
You know, people have their photo smile in the real smile.

2242
01:35:26.500 --> 01:35:27.500
Yeah.

2243
01:35:27.500 --> 01:35:30.500
And the same with the laughter.

2244
01:35:30.500 --> 01:35:32.500
Or that wasn't that funny.

2245
01:35:32.500 --> 01:35:34.500
Or they over-compliment something.

2246
01:35:34.500 --> 01:35:36.500
They compliment your shoes.

2247
01:35:36.500 --> 01:35:38.500
I mean, and then they have really...

2248
01:35:38.500 --> 01:35:40.500
Oh my gosh, I love that outfit.

2249
01:35:40.500 --> 01:35:41.500
And then obviously they've turned their head.

2250
01:35:41.500 --> 01:35:42.500
You know what I mean?

2251
01:35:42.500 --> 01:35:45.500
They're not really truly engaged in what it is.

2252
01:35:45.500 --> 01:35:46.500
It's just...

2253
01:35:46.500 --> 01:35:48.500
It's a ritual to them.

2254
01:35:48.500 --> 01:35:50.500
Of that's how they have learned.

2255
01:35:50.500 --> 01:35:56.500
Because to me, if you have to perfectly curate yourself, the sense of perfection,

2256
01:35:56.500 --> 01:35:59.500
you're not getting the real human.

2257
01:35:59.500 --> 01:36:02.500
You're getting a person and character.

2258
01:36:02.500 --> 01:36:04.500
You're getting them and and seen.

2259
01:36:04.500 --> 01:36:07.500
You know, they have to like get into it.

2260
01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:13.500
And so it's something that's so fake every single time.

2261
01:36:13.500 --> 01:36:20.500
And then the third that you have to watch out for are the people that aren't willing

2262
01:36:20.500 --> 01:36:23.500
to actually have an interest in you.

2263
01:36:23.500 --> 01:36:26.500
Meaning they never ask anything about you.

2264
01:36:26.500 --> 01:36:29.500
They're only wanting to talk about themselves.

2265
01:36:29.500 --> 01:36:31.500
I give you ever been in a... I know you have.

2266
01:36:31.500 --> 01:36:35.500
And you're networking in a big room and somebody's looking at you and all of a sudden they're looking at the room.

2267
01:36:35.500 --> 01:36:39.500
Like they're looking for who they're going to talk to next.

2268
01:36:39.500 --> 01:36:41.500
And you've lost them.

2269
01:36:41.500 --> 01:36:44.500
And so it's like why we're both just kind of here saying things.

2270
01:36:44.500 --> 01:36:47.500
We're going to slow down our words so it's not as awkward.

2271
01:36:47.500 --> 01:36:50.500
And you say things like, yeah, that's crazy.

2272
01:36:50.500 --> 01:36:54.500
Yeah. And like while you're both looking for somebody else to talk to.

2273
01:36:54.500 --> 01:36:55.500
But that's what happens.

2274
01:36:55.500 --> 01:36:59.500
You realize you come out of focus and they're looking for the next person.

2275
01:36:59.500 --> 01:37:04.500
I'm really surprising point of feedback or compliment someone gave me once.

2276
01:37:04.500 --> 01:37:08.500
And it's surprising because I never considered it to be something that people were noticing

2277
01:37:08.500 --> 01:37:10.500
is what I do like meeting greets.

2278
01:37:10.500 --> 01:37:11.500
Yeah.

2279
01:37:11.500 --> 01:37:13.500
And your meeting say a hundred people before or after a talk or whatever.

2280
01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:15.500
And they're coming up one at a time.

2281
01:37:15.500 --> 01:37:23.500
I will get DMs in the preceding days of people telling me that they liked the way

2282
01:37:23.500 --> 01:37:26.500
that they watched me pay attention to someone else.

2283
01:37:26.500 --> 01:37:27.500
Do you get this?

2284
01:37:27.500 --> 01:37:28.500
Other time.

2285
01:37:28.500 --> 01:37:29.500
They're watching.

2286
01:37:29.500 --> 01:37:33.500
They're watching how interested you are in the person that's talking to you.

2287
01:37:33.500 --> 01:37:37.500
And I didn't obviously it's not something I thought about before until I probably

2288
01:37:37.500 --> 01:37:41.500
had about 20 messages over the last year or two from people saying,

2289
01:37:41.500 --> 01:37:42.500
and you know what I know to Stephen?

2290
01:37:42.500 --> 01:37:45.500
How much you are paying attention to the person that spoke to you.

2291
01:37:45.500 --> 01:37:46.500
Right.

2292
01:37:46.500 --> 01:37:47.500
Not to them.

2293
01:37:47.500 --> 01:37:48.500
Exactly.

2294
01:37:48.500 --> 01:37:49.500
They were in the line waiting.

2295
01:37:49.500 --> 01:37:51.500
And I just thought that's so interesting that we judge other people

2296
01:37:51.500 --> 01:37:55.500
by how they interact with other people while we're watching as well.

2297
01:37:55.500 --> 01:37:56.500
Right.

2298
01:37:56.500 --> 01:38:00.500
And being interested is seen as makes you likable, I guess.

2299
01:38:01.500 --> 01:38:05.500
Presence is the highest form of authenticity.

2300
01:38:05.500 --> 01:38:08.500
I can talk to you, but am I here with you?

2301
01:38:08.500 --> 01:38:10.500
Do I have my eyes with you?

2302
01:38:10.500 --> 01:38:12.500
Am I interested in you?

2303
01:38:12.500 --> 01:38:15.500
Am I going to, am I easily distracted?

2304
01:38:15.500 --> 01:38:17.500
Am I going to have my phone?

2305
01:38:17.500 --> 01:38:19.500
Am I really paying attention?

2306
01:38:19.500 --> 01:38:24.500
Or am I making sure that you know you are the most important thing that's happening in this moment?

2307
01:38:24.500 --> 01:38:25.500
Even if it's a glimmer.

2308
01:38:26.500 --> 01:38:30.500
Even if it's for 30 seconds and you're doing a meet and greet and you're saying,

2309
01:38:30.500 --> 01:38:32.500
how are you signing their book?

2310
01:38:32.500 --> 01:38:34.500
Do you ask them their name?

2311
01:38:34.500 --> 01:38:36.500
Do you use their name?

2312
01:38:36.500 --> 01:38:40.500
Do you look at them with intent of true genuine thank you for being here?

2313
01:38:40.500 --> 01:38:42.500
None of this would happen if not for you.

2314
01:38:42.500 --> 01:38:47.500
People are watching the whole time and they know.

2315
01:38:47.500 --> 01:38:50.500
I mean, it's such a...

2316
01:38:50.500 --> 01:38:53.500
It's like what you know it when you feel it, you kind of thing.

2317
01:38:53.500 --> 01:38:55.500
And to me, it's presence.

2318
01:38:55.500 --> 01:38:57.500
Am I truly here with you?

2319
01:38:57.500 --> 01:39:01.500
Because even at the house, you know, you can say, well, I'm home all the time.

2320
01:39:01.500 --> 01:39:03.500
But are you just looking on your phone?

2321
01:39:03.500 --> 01:39:04.500
Are you just sitting on the couch?

2322
01:39:04.500 --> 01:39:06.500
Are you always reading?

2323
01:39:06.500 --> 01:39:08.500
Are you... that's not presence.

2324
01:39:08.500 --> 01:39:12.500
I'm going to play this video on the screen for anyone that's watching the video.

2325
01:39:12.500 --> 01:39:18.500
But it immediately made me think of this clip that went viral of Marley Cyrus Naomi Campbell.

2326
01:39:18.500 --> 01:39:20.500
I haven't seen this.

2327
01:39:20.500 --> 01:39:24.500
They were doing a meet and greet together.

2328
01:39:24.500 --> 01:39:27.500
And they were just chatting through each other and kind of ignoring the fans.

2329
01:39:27.500 --> 01:39:29.500
And you can...

2330
01:39:29.500 --> 01:39:32.500
Right behind you, one, two, three.

2331
01:39:32.500 --> 01:39:34.500
There you go.

2332
01:39:38.500 --> 01:39:43.500
I just remember thinking this is like the antithesis of what we've just said.

2333
01:39:43.500 --> 01:39:45.500
It's painful to watch.

2334
01:39:45.500 --> 01:39:47.500
I know it's painful for the people.

2335
01:39:47.500 --> 01:39:54.500
There are several layers of where one, it's an area of really little forgiveness.

2336
01:39:54.500 --> 01:40:00.500
You know, if you think of somebody of her caliber, so to say, of like her celebrity, right?

2337
01:40:00.500 --> 01:40:02.500
Seen thousands, millions.

2338
01:40:02.500 --> 01:40:08.500
It's happened and is it really room for just having a conversation with somebody?

2339
01:40:08.500 --> 01:40:10.500
Like if you're her, how do you...

2340
01:40:10.500 --> 01:40:12.500
What would be the justification?

2341
01:40:12.500 --> 01:40:14.500
If you could just pause and say, what is it?

2342
01:40:14.500 --> 01:40:16.500
Maybe you say, well, there isn't any.

2343
01:40:16.500 --> 01:40:17.500
Okay, that's fine.

2344
01:40:17.500 --> 01:40:25.500
But let's say one, when it comes to presence, there's really not any room for forgiveness.

2345
01:40:25.500 --> 01:40:30.500
It's either you're present with them or you're not because this kind of thing can last forever.

2346
01:40:30.500 --> 01:40:38.500
Second of all, people will forget what you did, but they'll never forget how you made them feel.

2347
01:40:38.500 --> 01:40:47.500
And people will remember you, Stephen, of they will tell their kids and their grandkids of the time that they met you

2348
01:40:47.500 --> 01:40:54.500
and how nice you were, how present you were, and how you were genuinely interested in them.

2349
01:40:54.500 --> 01:40:56.500
And that makes all the difference.

2350
01:40:56.500 --> 01:40:59.500
If you have one slip-up, that's what I say.

2351
01:40:59.500 --> 01:41:01.500
It's not very forgivable.

2352
01:41:01.500 --> 01:41:04.500
When you have one slip-up, it's showing applied to all.

2353
01:41:04.500 --> 01:41:07.500
Because if you can do it to them, you can do it to me.

2354
01:41:07.500 --> 01:41:09.500
The slip-up will also travel much further.

2355
01:41:09.500 --> 01:41:11.500
Faster too.

2356
01:41:11.500 --> 01:41:16.500
Because I guarantee you, you think of all the meet and greets that somebody like that has had.

2357
01:41:16.500 --> 01:41:19.500
And it's had genuine real interest.

2358
01:41:19.500 --> 01:41:22.500
They mess up one time to get tired one time.

2359
01:41:22.500 --> 01:41:25.500
Well, then all of a sudden, that's what travels way faster.

2360
01:41:25.500 --> 01:41:30.500
But the thing is that that's why I say presence is the highest form of authenticity.

2361
01:41:30.500 --> 01:41:35.500
Because if you can take that moment to be truly interested in somebody.

2362
01:41:35.500 --> 01:41:37.500
Because who am I?

2363
01:41:37.500 --> 01:41:40.500
You know, I'm a guy from a small town who made videos in my car.

2364
01:41:40.500 --> 01:41:44.500
And you're going to come to my book signing and you traveled and you flew in two hours.

2365
01:41:44.500 --> 01:41:46.500
Like, why would I not? Hold up.

2366
01:41:46.500 --> 01:41:47.500
Take the line.

2367
01:41:47.500 --> 01:41:49.500
Let me spend three minutes with you.

2368
01:41:49.500 --> 01:41:51.500
Can I give three minutes of my life to talk to you?

2369
01:41:51.500 --> 01:41:52.500
What are you doing here?

2370
01:41:52.500 --> 01:41:58.500
And so when you have that humility and there's several people,

2371
01:41:58.500 --> 01:42:05.500
I know you know many names of they, they forgot how they got what they got.

2372
01:42:05.500 --> 01:42:06.500
Oh, yeah.

2373
01:42:06.500 --> 01:42:12.500
I have a really interesting example of this recently where we appointed new chairman to our company.

2374
01:42:12.500 --> 01:42:14.500
He's called Nicky.

2375
01:42:14.500 --> 01:42:16.500
And incredible guy.

2376
01:42:16.500 --> 01:42:20.500
He's been like even proctering gamble doing product for, I don't know, 12 years.

2377
01:42:20.500 --> 01:42:26.500
Then went to Boston Consulting Group and was one of this senior figures at Boston Consulting Group for 25 years.

2378
01:42:26.500 --> 01:42:31.500
And you know, he's in the home stretch of his career.

2379
01:42:31.500 --> 01:42:33.500
And he joined our company.

2380
01:42:33.500 --> 01:42:38.500
And he is, you know, he's achieved so much.

2381
01:42:38.500 --> 01:42:41.500
He's worked with the biggest, the best in the world globally.

2382
01:42:41.500 --> 01:42:42.500
Right.

2383
01:42:42.500 --> 01:42:46.500
So he's got the right one would say to be a certain way.

2384
01:42:46.500 --> 01:42:48.500
That's what someone might say.

2385
01:42:48.500 --> 01:42:51.500
But I'm over here in Los Angeles.

2386
01:42:51.500 --> 01:42:53.500
He joins the company as chairman.

2387
01:42:53.500 --> 01:42:59.500
And the interesting thing, the interesting feedback I got, I know 5,000 miles away,

2388
01:42:59.500 --> 01:43:03.500
was a very junior member of the team came up to me and said,

2389
01:43:03.500 --> 01:43:04.500
Oh, I love Nicky.

2390
01:43:04.500 --> 01:43:06.500
And I was like, explain.

2391
01:43:06.500 --> 01:43:11.500
And he went, he sat down with me and gave me an hour of his time.

2392
01:43:11.500 --> 01:43:13.500
That was the reason he loved him.

2393
01:43:13.500 --> 01:43:14.500
That was it.

2394
01:43:14.500 --> 01:43:16.500
It was presence.

2395
01:43:16.500 --> 01:43:21.500
And what I later found out was that Nicky went into the company and there is hundreds of people.

2396
01:43:21.500 --> 01:43:25.500
And he sat down with every single one of them, regardless of whether you're an intern

2397
01:43:25.500 --> 01:43:27.500
or whether you're the CEO.

2398
01:43:27.500 --> 01:43:29.500
And it's always, it's always stayed with me.

2399
01:43:29.500 --> 01:43:33.500
How much that has mattered, how much that has shaped his perception,

2400
01:43:33.500 --> 01:43:35.500
just disproportionate, he's brilliant at everything.

2401
01:43:35.500 --> 01:43:39.500
But disproportionately shaped his perception just by giving someone the most valuable thing,

2402
01:43:39.500 --> 01:43:40.500
which is just their time.

2403
01:43:40.500 --> 01:43:41.500
Yes.

2404
01:43:41.500 --> 01:43:46.500
And I'm, I mean, maybe it's a story of how to be a good partner.

2405
01:43:46.500 --> 01:43:50.500
Maybe it's a story of how to be in the public eye.

2406
01:43:50.500 --> 01:43:51.500
Right.

2407
01:43:51.500 --> 01:43:54.500
Maybe it's also a story of how to be a great colleague or team member or leader.

2408
01:43:54.500 --> 01:43:55.500
Yeah.

2409
01:43:55.500 --> 01:43:56.500
Or just a great human.

2410
01:43:56.500 --> 01:44:02.500
Yeah, I think there is, when you're always in the habit of giving,

2411
01:44:02.500 --> 01:44:05.500
giving then feels a lot like receiving.

2412
01:44:05.500 --> 01:44:11.500
So when I'm giving my time, it also feels like I'm receiving that time back.

2413
01:44:11.500 --> 01:44:18.500
When I can continually have that spirit and you have that knowledge of humility,

2414
01:44:18.500 --> 01:44:20.500
and say, what does humility mean?

2415
01:44:20.500 --> 01:44:25.500
It means you realize that you are just as weird and terrible as everybody else.

2416
01:44:25.500 --> 01:44:30.500
When you realize I'm the chief worst person, there is.

2417
01:44:30.500 --> 01:44:36.500
Now, I'm not better than a single person that is in line to do or attend something

2418
01:44:36.500 --> 01:44:38.500
or sit in an audience.

2419
01:44:38.500 --> 01:44:39.500
I'm no better.

2420
01:44:39.500 --> 01:44:44.500
I've just been through a lot, still been through a lot, and so I know a lot.

2421
01:44:45.500 --> 01:44:51.500
And when you have that mindset of, I want to meet and touch every single person.

2422
01:44:51.500 --> 01:45:01.500
If I were to come in here and only talk to you, but not talk to your team, what do you think that's going to do?

2423
01:45:01.500 --> 01:45:10.500
When you can go somewhere and not just talk to who's the most popular, but also talk to who's the least.

2424
01:45:10.500 --> 01:45:16.500
You will always get way more and for yourself and for the other person.

2425
01:45:16.500 --> 01:45:21.500
When you can lower yourself to say, hey, we're just humans in a room. How's it going?

2426
01:45:21.500 --> 01:45:27.500
It's interesting that we are figuring people out by how we observe them for carelessly.

2427
01:45:27.500 --> 01:45:29.500
We were talking about it in the context of a meeting group a second ago.

2428
01:45:29.500 --> 01:45:35.500
What you said there tracks perfectly with that, which is when you walked in the room, you didn't just speak to me.

2429
01:45:35.500 --> 01:45:40.500
You also asked Bertha, who's recording the podcast today, what her name was.

2430
01:45:40.500 --> 01:45:43.500
Then you said to Bertha, you said, thank you for doing this.

2431
01:45:43.500 --> 01:45:45.500
Isn't it funny that I remember?

2432
01:45:45.500 --> 01:45:48.500
Isn't it funny that that was two and a half hours ago?

2433
01:45:48.500 --> 01:45:53.500
I remember because it was really memorable to me that you did that, because not everybody does that.

2434
01:45:53.500 --> 01:45:55.500
Not everybody will notice that.

2435
01:45:55.500 --> 01:45:57.500
Bertha's in the room with us and she's running all these cameras and she's putting it together.

2436
01:45:57.500 --> 01:46:02.500
But for some reason, just before we started recording, you made a point of asking what her name was.

2437
01:46:02.500 --> 01:46:05.500
Then thanking her for doing this today. Most people don't do that.

2438
01:46:05.500 --> 01:46:11.500
As you walk away from today, I'm not going to remember that you walked in and said something nice about me or whatever.

2439
01:46:11.500 --> 01:46:13.500
The most shocking thing.

2440
01:46:13.500 --> 01:46:18.500
Therefore, the most memorable, because it is the most unusual, because it is typically the most overlooked,

2441
01:46:18.500 --> 01:46:22.500
is you acknowledging the other people.

2442
01:46:22.500 --> 01:46:28.500
I've noticed this as a paradox that I almost need to put words to.

2443
01:46:28.500 --> 01:46:37.500
I remember something I wrote a long time ago saying how useless absurdity will define you more than useful practicality.

2444
01:46:37.500 --> 01:46:44.500
What I mean by that is the example I was giving was in the context of my old gym where they have this massive climbing wall in the entrance.

2445
01:46:44.500 --> 01:46:47.500
I came home to my girlfriend and said, this is incredible gym.

2446
01:46:47.500 --> 01:46:51.500
It's massive. They even have 100 foot climbing wall in the entrance.

2447
01:46:51.500 --> 01:47:00.500
What I'm doing is I'm pointing at the most absurd thing to give you a shortcut that tells you everything about that gym.

2448
01:47:00.500 --> 01:47:02.500
If I point at the most absurd thing, you know the gym is big.

2449
01:47:02.500 --> 01:47:03.500
I got chills.

2450
01:47:03.500 --> 01:47:07.500
If I say there's 100 foot climbing wall, you know there's lots of running machines.

2451
01:47:07.500 --> 01:47:13.500
When I leave here and go, he was so nice, he even spoke to Bertor and thanked her for doing the podcast.

2452
01:47:13.500 --> 01:47:20.500
I'm using that as a shortcut because it's the most stand out absurd thing to tell other people everything about.

2453
01:47:20.500 --> 01:47:21.500
Yes, I love that.

2454
01:47:21.500 --> 01:47:26.500
And this is why we should value the seemingly petty and seemingly small and seemingly consequential.

2455
01:47:26.500 --> 01:47:30.500
Because other people don't, therefore it creates maximal impact.

2456
01:47:30.500 --> 01:47:33.500
Yes, that's why the big conversation rarely matter.

2457
01:47:33.500 --> 01:47:34.500
The small ones do.

2458
01:47:34.500 --> 01:47:36.500
It's the small ones with strangers.

2459
01:47:36.500 --> 01:47:38.500
It's the conversations you don't have on the stage.

2460
01:47:38.500 --> 01:47:40.500
It's the conversations you have on your driveway.

2461
01:47:40.500 --> 01:47:43.500
It's the conversations you have on your backyard at the coffee shop.

2462
01:47:43.500 --> 01:47:47.500
It's the conversations you have that somebody passing by in the elevator.

2463
01:47:47.500 --> 01:47:49.500
It's those.

2464
01:47:49.500 --> 01:47:52.500
That's what defines a human experience.

2465
01:47:52.500 --> 01:47:57.500
If I were to text you a compliment, right, that's one thing.

2466
01:47:57.500 --> 01:48:05.500
But if I were to say, hey, I just finished lunch with so-and-so, who you also know, I got to tell you this person loves you so much.

2467
01:48:05.500 --> 01:48:07.500
And I share with you what they said about you.

2468
01:48:07.500 --> 01:48:09.500
You're going to take that differently.

2469
01:48:09.500 --> 01:48:12.500
If I wanted to give you, let's say somebody wanted to give me a gift, right?

2470
01:48:12.500 --> 01:48:14.500
But instead, they didn't give it to me.

2471
01:48:14.500 --> 01:48:16.500
They gave it to my kids.

2472
01:48:16.500 --> 01:48:21.500
I mean, that's how much more with that define how much they care, right?

2473
01:48:21.500 --> 01:48:32.500
Anytime I go on a stage, I make it a priority that I know the guy who's a girl who's putting on my the AV system, the lapel mic, the everything.

2474
01:48:32.500 --> 01:48:34.500
I want to know their name.

2475
01:48:34.500 --> 01:48:36.500
How many times they've done this today?

2476
01:48:36.500 --> 01:48:37.500
How they're doing?

2477
01:48:37.500 --> 01:48:43.500
Because it's so easy just to turn and keep talking to who's important while, and act like they're just doing it.

2478
01:48:43.500 --> 01:48:50.500
When you can truly talk to the people, that's just a regular person.

2479
01:48:50.500 --> 01:48:54.500
And forget that you don't have to just stick to the sun bodies.

2480
01:48:54.500 --> 01:48:56.500
You don't have to look always for the sun bodies.

2481
01:48:56.500 --> 01:49:01.500
I used to say that, again, this comes from employing a lot of people that we all have invisible PR.

2482
01:49:01.500 --> 01:49:04.500
And it shows up in the moments that matters the most.

2483
01:49:04.500 --> 01:49:07.500
But it's built in the moments that seem to matter the least.

2484
01:49:07.500 --> 01:49:08.500
Yeah.

2485
01:49:08.500 --> 01:49:13.500
And the example I always think of is being working in the New York office many years ago.

2486
01:49:13.500 --> 01:49:17.500
And getting a message from my team member just saying, Jenny's so nice.

2487
01:49:17.500 --> 01:49:24.500
She just tim tripped over and Jenny immediately got up from her desk and ran across to the first aid kit and sorted him out.

2488
01:49:24.500 --> 01:49:25.500
She's so nice.

2489
01:49:25.500 --> 01:49:27.500
And I'd hear that 3,000 miles away.

2490
01:49:27.500 --> 01:49:31.500
And then a year later, I'd be sat with Jenny during her promotion conversation.

2491
01:49:31.500 --> 01:49:32.500
Yeah.

2492
01:49:32.500 --> 01:49:38.500
And that one thing she did, that small thing she did, wasn't often the time where I'd go,

2493
01:49:38.500 --> 01:49:42.500
do you know what, this person is a certain type of person and we should double down in them.

2494
01:49:42.500 --> 01:49:44.500
And then I've got the opposite as well.

2495
01:49:44.500 --> 01:49:52.500
I've got the little thing someone did to someone who was not necessarily their line manager or significant.

2496
01:49:52.500 --> 01:49:58.500
And you know, and even things that happened to me years ago when I came up to,

2497
01:49:58.500 --> 01:50:00.500
I walked up to someone famous.

2498
01:50:00.500 --> 01:50:01.500
I've told this story before.

2499
01:50:01.500 --> 01:50:02.500
It's so crazy.

2500
01:50:02.500 --> 01:50:04.500
I told this during the podcast episode three.

2501
01:50:04.500 --> 01:50:06.500
And no one listened.

2502
01:50:06.500 --> 01:50:13.500
And then like three, four years later, the podcast got bigger and people started listening to people go back to the old episodes.

2503
01:50:13.500 --> 01:50:16.500
And this famous person tweeted me like four years later.

2504
01:50:16.500 --> 01:50:19.500
I was like, I heard you're talking about me in the UK.

2505
01:50:19.500 --> 01:50:26.500
But I was just sharing it as an example for like invisible PR where someone I'd gone up to someone famous and asked them a question.

2506
01:50:26.500 --> 01:50:28.500
And they just like, bye.

2507
01:50:28.500 --> 01:50:29.500
Yeah.

2508
01:50:29.500 --> 01:50:30.500
Like they did to me.

2509
01:50:30.500 --> 01:50:31.500
Right.

2510
01:50:31.500 --> 01:50:35.500
And I, you know, I don't know what they're going through that day, but it always, you know.

2511
01:50:35.500 --> 01:50:44.500
But that brings it around like full circle because like we just said, you can have those little moments where it's the rock wall.

2512
01:50:44.500 --> 01:50:45.500
Right.

2513
01:50:45.500 --> 01:50:53.500
Where little moments of connection, of presence, of real authenticity of them being with you, that you'll remember forever.

2514
01:50:53.500 --> 01:51:04.500
And I bet if I had to guess, there's a moment in Stephen at the playground growing up that a teacher, somebody in your life said something that was nice and you've remembered forever.

2515
01:51:04.500 --> 01:51:06.500
Oh, yeah.

2516
01:51:06.500 --> 01:51:09.500
But I would also venture it a bit.

2517
01:51:09.500 --> 01:51:10.500
Yes.

2518
01:51:10.500 --> 01:51:13.500
Before you even said, I could, I thought of the moment.

2519
01:51:13.500 --> 01:51:21.500
That playground, Stephen, where somebody said something hurtful or rude or said something about how you look.

2520
01:51:21.500 --> 01:51:24.500
Your appearance, maybe not even racist, but sometime in your life.

2521
01:51:24.500 --> 01:51:25.500
Oh, yeah.

2522
01:51:25.500 --> 01:51:31.500
And it was just something, maybe it was about for a lot of people, it's like their weight or their appearance or their looks.

2523
01:51:31.500 --> 01:51:33.500
And they've carried that around with them forever.

2524
01:51:33.500 --> 01:51:39.500
And that, like without knowing it, that person gave you an insecurity for the rest of your life.

2525
01:51:39.500 --> 01:51:44.500
And so it's so wild to me how the positive is remembered.

2526
01:51:44.500 --> 01:51:50.500
The negative is remembered much longer and travels a lot farther.

2527
01:51:50.500 --> 01:52:08.500
And I mean, it's when I ask that to a group that I'm talking to, there's hands are always way more raised for the negative for the one thing that the power of your words last way longer than you'd ever think the ripple effect will affect people you've never met.

2528
01:52:08.500 --> 01:52:11.500
I mean, you think think of the people who you've touched.

2529
01:52:11.500 --> 01:52:18.500
And the people you've never met, but yet they have a perception of you based three persons down.

2530
01:52:18.500 --> 01:52:23.500
And how I talk to my kids will affect how they talk to their kids and their kids.

2531
01:52:23.500 --> 01:52:25.500
Children are never me.

2532
01:52:25.500 --> 01:52:36.500
And when you realize that how I talk to the person behind the cashier affects how he or she talks to their kids when they go home.

2533
01:52:36.500 --> 01:52:40.500
What I said will determine whether they come home and say I had a really bad day.

2534
01:52:40.500 --> 01:52:42.500
I had a really hard day.

2535
01:52:42.500 --> 01:52:48.500
And it's because of what I said because I was rude or I was impatient because they didn't get it to me fast enough.

2536
01:52:48.500 --> 01:52:53.500
And all of a sudden without knowing just as much as the positive last so does the negative.

2537
01:52:53.500 --> 01:52:59.500
It's now what I chose to say is responsible for how they're treating their own kids.

2538
01:52:59.500 --> 01:53:01.500
And that's how we are as humans, right?

2539
01:53:01.500 --> 01:53:05.500
The reason why we survived is because we're good at gossip.

2540
01:53:05.500 --> 01:53:07.500
We're good at passing on stories.

2541
01:53:07.500 --> 01:53:11.500
I could tell people before they met you if you were a risk.

2542
01:53:11.500 --> 01:53:13.500
Don't go near him.

2543
01:53:13.500 --> 01:53:15.500
Don't go near that cave.

2544
01:53:15.500 --> 01:53:17.500
That's right.

2545
01:53:17.500 --> 01:53:22.500
It's a survival adaptation in some respects to be gossipy and to pass on people's reputations.

2546
01:53:22.500 --> 01:53:24.500
We've always asked, what's the news?

2547
01:53:24.500 --> 01:53:26.500
You know, people gone through town from town to town.

2548
01:53:26.500 --> 01:53:28.500
You didn't really have a paper.

2549
01:53:28.500 --> 01:53:30.500
Do you have any news?

2550
01:53:30.500 --> 01:53:32.500
So I'm going to push you to close.

2551
01:53:32.500 --> 01:53:42.500
To give me the five things that you think are most important for anyone who's striving to be a masterful communicator conversation list.

2552
01:53:42.500 --> 01:53:44.500
To get what they want out of life.

2553
01:53:44.500 --> 01:53:50.500
Which is really what I think is the last dominate when we talk about body language or communication tactics.

2554
01:53:50.500 --> 01:53:52.500
All the things we're talking about.

2555
01:53:52.500 --> 01:53:54.500
I think people are trying to get something out of life.

2556
01:53:54.500 --> 01:54:00.500
Whether it's to have a better relationship or to be respected or get a promotion, to be successful.

2557
01:54:00.500 --> 01:54:04.500
I think that's probably the output we're looking for.

2558
01:54:04.500 --> 01:54:06.500
Ultimately. Do you agree with that?

2559
01:54:06.500 --> 01:54:12.500
What's the last dominate that people are looking for when they talk about this stuff up here?

2560
01:54:12.500 --> 01:54:14.500
Self-worth.

2561
01:54:14.500 --> 01:54:16.500
Self-worth.

2562
01:54:16.500 --> 01:54:18.500
Am I enough?

2563
01:54:18.500 --> 01:54:22.500
So what are the five most important things to summarize?

2564
01:54:22.500 --> 01:54:24.500
If you had to give me five.

2565
01:54:24.500 --> 01:54:28.500
The first is authenticity.

2566
01:54:28.500 --> 01:54:30.500
If I cannot be genuine with you.

2567
01:54:30.500 --> 01:54:32.500
If I cannot be real with you.

2568
01:54:32.500 --> 01:54:34.500
Then I can be nobody to you.

2569
01:54:34.500 --> 01:54:36.500
And on authenticity.

2570
01:54:36.500 --> 01:54:38.500
You know, on your bad day.

2571
01:54:38.500 --> 01:54:40.500
Are you still authentic?

2572
01:54:40.500 --> 01:54:42.500
Yes.

2573
01:54:42.500 --> 01:54:44.500
Like if you're really having a bad day.

2574
01:54:44.500 --> 01:54:46.500
Do you show up to work as your authentic self?

2575
01:54:46.500 --> 01:54:48.500
I would say yes.

2576
01:54:48.500 --> 01:54:52.500
There's obviously certain parameters that are within social norms.

2577
01:54:52.500 --> 01:54:54.500
Just because I'm having a bad time in a bad mood.

2578
01:54:54.500 --> 01:54:58.500
Does that give me a right to rip you a new one?

2579
01:54:58.500 --> 01:55:00.500
Just because you said hello to me that morning?

2580
01:55:00.500 --> 01:55:02.500
No.

2581
01:55:02.500 --> 01:55:04.500
But I think that there is certainly a space to say,

2582
01:55:04.500 --> 01:55:08.500
don't act like you're happy when you're not.

2583
01:55:08.500 --> 01:55:10.500
What about lying?

2584
01:55:10.500 --> 01:55:12.500
Is that a violation of authenticity?

2585
01:55:12.500 --> 01:55:16.500
What do you think of my new haircut?

2586
01:55:16.500 --> 01:55:18.500
And you think it's terrible?

2587
01:55:18.500 --> 01:55:20.500
What do you say?

2588
01:55:20.500 --> 01:55:22.500
It's an interesting choice.

2589
01:55:22.500 --> 01:55:24.500
Probably what I'd say.

2590
01:55:24.500 --> 01:55:26.500
So you wouldn't lie.

2591
01:55:26.500 --> 01:55:28.500
No, I wouldn't.

2592
01:55:28.500 --> 01:55:30.500
I would probably change it to where it's,

2593
01:55:30.500 --> 01:55:32.500
I'm glad that they like it.

2594
01:55:32.500 --> 01:55:34.500
I don't have to like it for you to give any type of worth.

2595
01:55:34.500 --> 01:55:36.500
If you like it, that's awesome.

2596
01:55:36.500 --> 01:55:40.500
And authenticity is a strategy builds trust over time.

2597
01:55:40.500 --> 01:55:42.500
A long-term game, I guess.

2598
01:55:42.500 --> 01:55:44.500
Yeah, no, I came across some research recently

2599
01:55:44.500 --> 01:55:46.500
where it was in social settings,

2600
01:55:46.500 --> 01:55:48.500
those that are more authentic

2601
01:55:48.500 --> 01:55:50.500
are also the ones that are more trusted

2602
01:55:50.500 --> 01:55:52.500
and the ones you want to be around more.

2603
01:55:52.500 --> 01:55:54.500
Why do people struggle with authenticity?

2604
01:55:54.500 --> 01:55:56.500
It goes back to this point about people pleasing, I guess.

2605
01:55:56.500 --> 01:55:58.500
But there is a certain type of person,

2606
01:55:58.500 --> 01:56:02.500
I think, that probably struggles to just be...

2607
01:56:02.500 --> 01:56:06.500
You know, just to show up in all the ways that they...

2608
01:56:06.500 --> 01:56:10.500
They are to be themselves.

2609
01:56:10.500 --> 01:56:14.500
They grew up in places that weren't safe.

2610
01:56:14.500 --> 01:56:18.500
Whether physically or emotionally,

2611
01:56:18.500 --> 01:56:20.500
they grew up unsafe.

2612
01:56:20.500 --> 01:56:22.500
And so they're always tense.

2613
01:56:22.500 --> 01:56:24.500
They're always anxious.

2614
01:56:24.500 --> 01:56:26.500
They're always worried about the next shoe to drop.

2615
01:56:26.500 --> 01:56:28.500
They can't rest.

2616
01:56:28.500 --> 01:56:35.500
You see people that had come from very hard harsh environments.

2617
01:56:35.500 --> 01:56:39.500
You'll see the survival skills that have come out of that.

2618
01:56:39.500 --> 01:56:45.500
It's because they simply didn't have a place to be safe.

2619
01:56:45.500 --> 01:56:47.500
Number two.

2620
01:56:47.500 --> 01:56:51.500
Reduce the amount of distraction.

2621
01:56:51.500 --> 01:56:53.500
Reduce distraction.

2622
01:56:53.500 --> 01:56:57.500
Is that the same as saying, like, increase presence?

2623
01:56:57.500 --> 01:56:59.500
Well, that is the benefit of it.

2624
01:56:59.500 --> 01:57:01.500
Yeah.

2625
01:57:01.500 --> 01:57:03.500
If you want to increase your presence,

2626
01:57:03.500 --> 01:57:05.500
you have to eliminate distractions.

2627
01:57:05.500 --> 01:57:07.500
And that means eliminate how often you're on your phone.

2628
01:57:07.500 --> 01:57:09.500
I've got some thread here.

2629
01:57:09.500 --> 01:57:11.500
Do you know why this is here?

2630
01:57:11.500 --> 01:57:13.500
Yes.

2631
01:57:13.500 --> 01:57:15.500
Well, you explain.

2632
01:57:15.500 --> 01:57:19.500
So, just a piece of very pretty red string.

2633
01:57:19.500 --> 01:57:23.500
And this string is going to represent the connection between the two of us.

2634
01:57:23.500 --> 01:57:25.500
I give you the end of it.

2635
01:57:25.500 --> 01:57:27.500
What I just gave you is a piece of string.

2636
01:57:27.500 --> 01:57:31.500
And it connects between your hand and my hand.

2637
01:57:31.500 --> 01:57:33.500
And it's taught right now.

2638
01:57:33.500 --> 01:57:37.500
So, this string right now represents the connection between us in conversation.

2639
01:57:37.500 --> 01:57:39.500
It's tight.

2640
01:57:39.500 --> 01:57:41.500
It's very tight.

2641
01:57:41.500 --> 01:57:45.500
I'm going to ask questions throughout this that don't think about how,

2642
01:57:45.500 --> 01:57:47.500
what the right answer is.

2643
01:57:47.500 --> 01:57:51.500
Just go with what your gut instinctive how it feels.

2644
01:57:51.500 --> 01:57:53.500
So, right now, it's tight.

2645
01:57:53.500 --> 01:57:57.500
And if I look at you and the I NSA, Steven, how's it going, man?

2646
01:57:57.500 --> 01:57:59.500
It's going good.

2647
01:57:59.500 --> 01:58:00.500
Yeah.

2648
01:58:00.500 --> 01:58:02.500
Tell me about it.

2649
01:58:02.500 --> 01:58:04.500
It's just not good.

2650
01:58:04.500 --> 01:58:08.500
Do you find that some of the biggest struggles you had yesterday

2651
01:58:08.500 --> 01:58:12.500
was mostly with business or personal or tell me something with business?

2652
01:58:12.500 --> 01:58:16.500
Um, struggles with business.

2653
01:58:16.500 --> 01:58:18.500
Go ahead.

2654
01:58:18.500 --> 01:58:20.500
Okay, so you're on your phone now.

2655
01:58:20.500 --> 01:58:24.500
And the connection has been reduced.

2656
01:58:24.500 --> 01:58:26.500
Yeah, so I just pulled out my phone.

2657
01:58:26.500 --> 01:58:28.500
And now I'm looking.

2658
01:58:28.500 --> 01:58:30.500
And what did you feel in the line?

2659
01:58:30.500 --> 01:58:32.500
I felt like the tightness went.

2660
01:58:32.500 --> 01:58:34.500
It went loose.

2661
01:58:34.500 --> 01:58:36.500
Yeah, it went slack.

2662
01:58:36.500 --> 01:58:38.500
But that's the physical.

2663
01:58:38.500 --> 01:58:40.500
Was emotionally how did that feel?

2664
01:58:40.500 --> 01:58:42.500
It felt disrespectful.

2665
01:58:42.500 --> 01:58:44.500
Yeah.

2666
01:58:44.500 --> 01:58:46.500
And see, if I had just both had both hands on it like this.

2667
01:58:46.500 --> 01:58:48.500
Now, let's put it taught again.

2668
01:58:48.500 --> 01:58:50.500
And I'm talking to you.

2669
01:58:50.500 --> 01:58:54.500
And I say, so what's, what are you looking forward to this weekend?

2670
01:58:54.500 --> 01:58:56.500
You know, go ahead.

2671
01:58:56.500 --> 01:58:58.500
And this is me just trying to.

2672
01:58:58.500 --> 01:59:00.500
It's still tight. Don't worry.

2673
01:59:00.500 --> 01:59:02.500
I still I'm connected to you.

2674
01:59:02.500 --> 01:59:04.500
You know, don't worry about it.

2675
01:59:04.500 --> 01:59:06.500
I'm right here.

2676
01:59:06.500 --> 01:59:08.500
Go ahead.

2677
01:59:08.500 --> 01:59:10.500
Yeah.

2678
01:59:10.500 --> 01:59:12.500
Exactly.

2679
01:59:12.500 --> 01:59:14.500
You see how all of a sudden you wanted to let go now.

2680
01:59:14.500 --> 01:59:16.500
Yeah.

2681
01:59:16.500 --> 01:59:18.500
Yeah. For anybody listening.

2682
01:59:18.500 --> 01:59:20.500
So we both had it tight.

2683
01:59:20.500 --> 01:59:22.500
I look at my phone while still holding tight.

2684
01:59:22.500 --> 01:59:24.500
What do you typically do if somebody's at dinner with you?

2685
01:59:24.500 --> 01:59:26.500
And they pull out their phone.

2686
01:59:26.500 --> 01:59:28.500
I mean, you look away or you could speak to someone else or you.

2687
01:59:28.500 --> 01:59:30.500
Or you pull out your phone.

2688
01:59:30.500 --> 01:59:32.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2689
01:59:32.500 --> 01:59:36.500
Exactly. It's like they've given you permission to now pick up their phone.

2690
01:59:36.500 --> 01:59:38.500
Somebody gets on theirs and you don't want to look awkward or odd.

2691
01:59:38.500 --> 01:59:40.500
So what do you, you want to really get out yours?

2692
01:59:40.500 --> 01:59:44.500
The next thing you know, both of you are on your phones at dinner.

2693
01:59:44.500 --> 01:59:46.500
We were supposed to be communicating with each other.

2694
01:59:46.500 --> 01:59:50.500
And you're just staring at your phone.

2695
01:59:50.500 --> 01:59:52.500
I think I sometimes think this with me being an interview,

2696
01:59:52.500 --> 01:59:54.500
having this iPad in front of me.

2697
01:59:54.500 --> 01:59:56.500
Should I get rid of the iPad?

2698
01:59:56.500 --> 01:59:58.500
Maybe I should.

2699
01:59:58.500 --> 02:00:00.500
Because I write things down while someone's speaking to me.

2700
02:00:00.500 --> 02:00:04.500
And I do worry sometimes that if I'm looking at a particular point or fact or whatever,

2701
02:00:04.500 --> 02:00:06.500
then I'm...

2702
02:00:06.500 --> 02:00:08.500
It's a little bit different.

2703
02:00:08.500 --> 02:00:10.500
So there's a part of this that is it's a production.

2704
02:00:10.500 --> 02:00:12.500
We have cameras.

2705
02:00:12.500 --> 02:00:14.500
We have lights.

2706
02:00:14.500 --> 02:00:16.500
Like this isn't a normal,

2707
02:00:16.500 --> 02:00:18.500
just if you and I were having coffee.

2708
02:00:18.500 --> 02:00:20.500
It's not much.

2709
02:00:20.500 --> 02:00:24.500
And I'm talking like this to you and I put my phone right here.

2710
02:00:24.500 --> 02:00:26.500
Do you feel a different?

2711
02:00:26.500 --> 02:00:28.500
Do you feel I'm more connected or less connected?

2712
02:00:28.500 --> 02:00:30.500
Yeah, and if I...

2713
02:00:30.500 --> 02:00:32.500
If I...

2714
02:00:32.500 --> 02:00:34.500
If I...

2715
02:00:34.500 --> 02:00:36.500
If I...

2716
02:00:36.500 --> 02:00:38.500
If I...

2717
02:00:38.500 --> 02:00:40.500
If I...

2718
02:00:40.500 --> 02:00:42.500
If I...

2719
02:00:42.500 --> 02:00:44.500
If I...

2720
02:00:44.500 --> 02:00:46.500
If I...

2721
02:00:46.500 --> 02:00:48.500
If I...

2722
02:00:48.500 --> 02:00:50.500
If I...

2723
02:00:50.500 --> 02:00:52.500
If I...

2724
02:00:52.500 --> 02:00:54.500
If I...

2725
02:00:54.500 --> 02:00:56.500
If I...

2726
02:00:56.500 --> 02:00:58.500
If I...

2727
02:00:58.500 --> 02:01:00.500
If I...

2728
02:01:00.500 --> 02:01:02.500
If I...

2729
02:01:02.500 --> 02:01:04.500
If I...

2730
02:01:04.500 --> 02:01:06.500
If I...

2731
02:01:06.500 --> 02:01:08.500
If I...

2732
02:01:08.500 --> 02:01:10.500
If I...

2733
02:01:10.500 --> 02:01:12.500
If I...

2734
02:01:12.500 --> 02:01:14.500
If I...

2735
02:01:14.500 --> 02:01:16.500
If I...

2736
02:01:16.500 --> 02:01:18.500
If I...

2737
02:01:18.500 --> 02:01:20.500
If I...

2738
02:01:20.500 --> 02:01:22.500
If I...

2739
02:01:22.500 --> 02:01:24.500
If I...

2740
02:01:24.500 --> 02:01:26.500
If I...

2741
02:01:26.500 --> 02:01:28.500
If I...

2742
02:01:28.500 --> 02:01:30.500
If I...

2743
02:01:30.500 --> 02:01:32.500
If I...

2744
02:01:32.500 --> 02:01:34.500
If I...

2745
02:01:34.500 --> 02:01:36.500
If I...

2746
02:01:36.500 --> 02:01:38.500
If I...

2747
02:01:38.500 --> 02:01:40.500
If I...

2748
02:01:40.500 --> 02:01:42.500
If I...

2749
02:01:42.500 --> 02:01:43.500
If I...

2750
02:01:43.500 --> 02:01:45.500
If I...

2751
02:01:45.500 --> 02:01:47.500
If I...

2752
02:01:47.500 --> 02:01:49.500
If I...

2753
02:01:49.500 --> 02:01:51.500
If I...

2754
02:01:51.500 --> 02:01:53.500
If I...

2755
02:01:53.500 --> 02:01:55.500
If I...

2756
02:01:55.500 --> 02:01:57.500
If I...

2757
02:01:57.500 --> 02:01:59.500
If I...

2758
02:01:59.500 --> 02:02:01.500
If I...

2759
02:02:01.500 --> 02:02:03.500
If I...

2760
02:02:03.500 --> 02:02:05.500
If I...

2761
02:02:05.500 --> 02:02:07.500
If I...

2762
02:02:07.500 --> 02:02:09.500
If I...

2763
02:02:09.500 --> 02:02:11.500
If I...

2764
02:02:11.500 --> 02:02:13.500
If I...

2765
02:02:13.500 --> 02:02:15.500
If I...

2766
02:02:15.500 --> 02:02:17.500
If I...

2767
02:02:17.500 --> 02:02:19.500
If I...

2768
02:02:19.500 --> 02:02:21.500
If I...

2769
02:02:21.500 --> 02:02:23.500
If I...

2770
02:02:23.500 --> 02:02:25.500
If I...

2771
02:02:25.500 --> 02:02:27.500
If I...

2772
02:02:27.500 --> 02:02:29.500
If I...

2773
02:02:29.500 --> 02:02:31.500
If I...

2774
02:02:31.500 --> 02:02:33.500
If I...

2775
02:02:33.500 --> 02:02:35.500
If I...

2776
02:02:35.500 --> 02:02:37.500
If I...

2777
02:02:37.500 --> 02:02:39.500
If I...

2778
02:02:39.500 --> 02:02:41.500
If I...

2779
02:02:41.500 --> 02:02:43.500
If I...

2780
02:02:43.500 --> 02:02:45.500
If I...

2781
02:02:45.500 --> 02:02:47.500
If I...

2782
02:02:47.500 --> 02:02:49.500
If I...

2783
02:02:49.500 --> 02:02:51.500
If I...

2784
02:02:51.500 --> 02:02:53.500
If I...

2785
02:02:53.500 --> 02:02:55.500
If I...

2786
02:02:55.500 --> 02:02:57.500
If I...

2787
02:02:57.500 --> 02:02:59.500
If I...

2788
02:02:59.500 --> 02:03:01.500
If I...

2789
02:03:01.500 --> 02:03:03.500
If I...

2790
02:03:03.500 --> 02:03:05.500
If I...

2791
02:03:05.500 --> 02:03:07.500
If I...

2792
02:03:07.500 --> 02:03:08.500
If I...

2793
02:03:08.500 --> 02:03:10.500
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2794
02:03:10.500 --> 02:03:12.500
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2795
02:03:12.500 --> 02:03:14.500
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2796
02:03:14.500 --> 02:03:16.500
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2797
02:03:16.500 --> 02:03:18.500
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2798
02:03:18.500 --> 02:03:20.500
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2799
02:03:20.500 --> 02:03:22.500
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2800
02:03:22.500 --> 02:03:24.500
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2801
02:03:24.500 --> 02:03:26.500
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2802
02:03:26.500 --> 02:03:28.500
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2803
02:03:28.500 --> 02:03:30.500
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2804
02:03:30.500 --> 02:03:32.500
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2805
02:03:32.500 --> 02:03:34.500
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2806
02:03:34.500 --> 02:03:36.500
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2807
02:03:36.500 --> 02:03:37.500
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2808
02:03:37.500 --> 02:03:39.500
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2809
02:03:39.500 --> 02:03:41.500
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2810
02:03:41.500 --> 02:03:43.500
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2811
02:03:43.500 --> 02:03:45.500
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2812
02:03:45.500 --> 02:03:47.500
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2813
02:03:47.500 --> 02:03:49.500
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2814
02:03:49.500 --> 02:03:51.500
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2815
02:03:51.500 --> 02:03:53.500
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2816
02:03:53.500 --> 02:03:55.500
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2817
02:03:55.500 --> 02:03:57.500
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2818
02:03:57.500 --> 02:03:59.500
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2819
02:03:59.500 --> 02:04:01.500
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2820
02:04:01.500 --> 02:04:03.500
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2821
02:04:03.500 --> 02:04:05.500
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2822
02:04:05.500 --> 02:04:06.500
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2823
02:04:06.500 --> 02:04:08.500
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2824
02:04:08.500 --> 02:04:10.500
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2825
02:04:10.500 --> 02:04:12.500
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2826
02:04:12.500 --> 02:04:14.500
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2827
02:04:14.500 --> 02:04:16.500
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2828
02:04:16.500 --> 02:04:18.500
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2829
02:04:18.500 --> 02:04:20.500
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2830
02:04:20.500 --> 02:04:22.500
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2831
02:04:22.500 --> 02:04:24.500
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2832
02:04:24.500 --> 02:04:26.500
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2833
02:04:26.500 --> 02:04:28.500
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2834
02:04:28.500 --> 02:04:30.500
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2835
02:04:30.500 --> 02:04:32.500
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2836
02:04:32.500 --> 02:04:34.500
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2837
02:04:34.500 --> 02:05:00.500
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2838
02:05:00.500 --> 02:05:02.500
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2839
02:05:02.500 --> 02:05:03.500
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2840
02:05:03.500 --> 02:05:07.540
It's easy to tune it out, it's like it becomes its own static.

2841
02:05:07.540 --> 02:05:12.300
But if you choose your words, if I'm going to slow down, so how do you, how do you stop

2842
02:05:12.300 --> 02:05:15.060
yourself from over-explaining?

2843
02:05:15.060 --> 02:05:17.820
Instead of being a waterfall, be a will.

2844
02:05:17.820 --> 02:05:24.820
Meaning, rather than trying to gush out information, get them swept away in your message, you

2845
02:05:24.820 --> 02:05:26.500
have a confidence in holding your knowledge.

2846
02:05:26.500 --> 02:05:30.620
If they have a question in the last, you're available for the question should they want

2847
02:05:30.620 --> 02:05:31.620
to ask.

2848
02:05:31.620 --> 02:05:37.180
Do you always exactly what you need if I choose to be a will with my information rather

2849
02:05:37.180 --> 02:05:38.420
than just gushing?

2850
02:05:38.420 --> 02:05:43.260
Because when I over-explain, all somebody's doing is indicating that I don't really

2851
02:05:43.260 --> 02:05:46.860
know if I believe what I'm saying or you believe what I'm saying, so I need to say more.

2852
02:05:46.860 --> 02:05:52.420
I notice there's such power in when someone asks you a question, taking a moment to think,

2853
02:05:52.420 --> 02:05:55.500
and actually sometimes I notice some people will actually say, let me just think about

2854
02:05:55.500 --> 02:05:56.500
that.

2855
02:05:56.500 --> 02:06:00.580
And the minute they do that, I'm immediately doing the opposite of discounting what

2856
02:06:00.580 --> 02:06:01.580
they say.

2857
02:06:01.580 --> 02:06:05.900
I'm now actually at baited breath to think about to hear this very thoughtful, considered

2858
02:06:05.900 --> 02:06:09.300
thing they're about to share with me, whereas you see a lot of people do the opposite.

2859
02:06:09.300 --> 02:06:12.780
The minute they're asked anything, it's just like the flood gates open, and they start

2860
02:06:12.780 --> 02:06:15.300
filling the silence with, and they start thinking out loud.

2861
02:06:15.300 --> 02:06:16.300
Exactly.

2862
02:06:16.300 --> 02:06:17.860
They're external thinkers.

2863
02:06:17.860 --> 02:06:24.940
What I teach is let your first word be your breath, meaning when you put a breath where

2864
02:06:24.940 --> 02:06:30.540
the first word should be, everything else flows.

2865
02:06:30.540 --> 02:06:39.020
If I start gushing, what I'm signaling is, you know, I don't, most people wait until

2866
02:06:39.020 --> 02:06:43.620
they're talking to figure out what they want to say, and so they say, well, what I mean

2867
02:06:43.620 --> 02:06:49.300
to say is, well, I say all that to say, because they're still trying to figure it out.

2868
02:06:49.300 --> 02:06:52.520
But if you were to ask me a really hard question, and rather than having that need your

2869
02:06:52.520 --> 02:07:00.040
reaction, I go, it's a good question, and we think, then you're going to be, you're

2870
02:07:00.040 --> 02:07:01.040
me in it.

2871
02:07:01.040 --> 02:07:05.000
You're going to know whatever is about to come out has actually been thought about is

2872
02:07:05.000 --> 02:07:07.520
actually going to be something you want to listen to.

2873
02:07:07.520 --> 02:07:09.560
Now you're going to be more curious.

2874
02:07:09.560 --> 02:07:12.440
Now you wait with baited breath of what's going to happen.

2875
02:07:12.440 --> 02:07:18.040
So when you think of business meetings, the person who goes, oh, actually, you know,

2876
02:07:18.040 --> 02:07:19.040
I disagree with that.

2877
02:07:19.040 --> 02:07:24.280
If you look at our latest studies, and they just start versus when somebody asks, you

2878
02:07:24.280 --> 02:07:29.200
know, Stephen, what do you think and you go, and you just hold that silence.

2879
02:07:29.200 --> 02:07:30.840
It's like a cliffhanger.

2880
02:07:30.840 --> 02:07:33.640
Everybody wants to hear what you said.

2881
02:07:33.640 --> 02:07:41.480
People who are confident, they don't have to say something to show they know something.

2882
02:07:41.480 --> 02:07:46.920
They choose their moment, they choose their timing.

2883
02:07:46.920 --> 02:07:49.640
It appears they're also the people that are most likely to turn around and say, I don't

2884
02:07:49.640 --> 02:07:51.120
have the answer to that.

2885
02:07:51.120 --> 02:07:52.120
Yep.

2886
02:07:52.120 --> 02:07:56.600
People who are truly confident, no, they don't always have to get it right.

2887
02:07:56.600 --> 02:07:59.160
They know that they will get it wrong.

2888
02:07:59.160 --> 02:08:02.880
Confident people, confidence does not mean you have to know all the answers, confidence

2889
02:08:02.880 --> 02:08:05.320
means you know that you don't.

2890
02:08:05.320 --> 02:08:09.760
When you have the confidence of knowing, I don't know everything, all of a sudden you

2891
02:08:09.760 --> 02:08:10.840
sound a lot more real.

2892
02:08:10.840 --> 02:08:14.600
There's also something about you just being the type of person that's willing to sit

2893
02:08:14.600 --> 02:08:17.680
in silence, but also just take up more space and time.

2894
02:08:17.680 --> 02:08:18.680
That signals respect.

2895
02:08:18.680 --> 02:08:23.040
The very fact that you would have the audacity to say, someone asks me a question and I

2896
02:08:23.040 --> 02:08:26.440
go, hmm, let me just think about that for a second.

2897
02:08:26.440 --> 02:08:29.320
It means that I'm not, you talked about rushing earlier.

2898
02:08:29.320 --> 02:08:35.000
I don't rush, and there's something about the quite aura about that, about the fact

2899
02:08:35.000 --> 02:08:39.480
that you're not the type of person that can just take seven seconds, right?

2900
02:08:39.480 --> 02:08:46.880
Because you're kind of stealing seven seconds from everyone there, so that you can think.

2901
02:08:46.880 --> 02:08:51.800
You would think that the harder the issue, the more time that is necessary.

2902
02:08:51.800 --> 02:08:55.680
You would think, and instead everybody's equated it to immediate.

2903
02:08:55.680 --> 02:09:02.760
It's think when, let's say we're on a ship and we're in the middle of a storm, who's

2904
02:09:02.760 --> 02:09:08.960
the person that they all look to to say, I'm freaking out, I'm scared, but the captain

2905
02:09:08.960 --> 02:09:09.960
isn't.

2906
02:09:09.960 --> 02:09:17.120
This person knows, she knows, and we're constantly looking for that person in times of emotional

2907
02:09:17.120 --> 02:09:18.120
stress.

2908
02:09:18.120 --> 02:09:23.920
We're wanting someone to, I'm too anxious, but I can go to this person because in times

2909
02:09:23.920 --> 02:09:28.560
of crisis, they say, you walk, don't run.

2910
02:09:28.560 --> 02:09:34.560
When I act like I've been there before and I've seen this, I'm telling everybody else,

2911
02:09:34.560 --> 02:09:38.400
so if he's not worried, I shouldn't be worried.

2912
02:09:38.400 --> 02:09:40.600
If he's not upset, I don't have to be upset.

2913
02:09:40.600 --> 02:09:46.960
A lot of doctors, a lot of professionals that deal with conflict and crisis management,

2914
02:09:46.960 --> 02:09:54.160
it's their job to be as calm as could be because if they reacted in a way that set you

2915
02:09:54.160 --> 02:10:00.480
all for situ on edge, then there's no anchor, and then it's a bad place to be.

2916
02:10:00.480 --> 02:10:03.840
Just having that, let me think about that for a second.

2917
02:10:03.840 --> 02:10:10.960
Has a different tune of, oh wow, this person, they know who they are, they, I don't rush.

2918
02:10:10.960 --> 02:10:11.960
That's just not what I do.

2919
02:10:11.960 --> 02:10:15.760
It reminds me of every time I've had turbulence on a plane and I've looked at the flight attendant

2920
02:10:15.760 --> 02:10:17.360
to see if this thing is going down.

2921
02:10:17.360 --> 02:10:18.360
That's so good.

2922
02:10:18.360 --> 02:10:19.360
Yes.

2923
02:10:19.360 --> 02:10:20.360
I've done that.

2924
02:10:20.360 --> 02:10:24.040
I can't tell you how many times I've done that, where I'm looking at the hostess, like

2925
02:10:24.040 --> 02:10:26.560
just walking, going to still passing out snacks and not bother.

2926
02:10:26.560 --> 02:10:29.520
I'm like, okay, if he's not bothered.

2927
02:10:29.520 --> 02:10:31.240
We do that in conversation every day.

2928
02:10:31.240 --> 02:10:34.600
We're looking for the conflite attendants.

2929
02:10:34.600 --> 02:10:39.520
We're looking for the anchors, the captains, the people who in times of stress, in turbulence

2930
02:10:39.520 --> 02:10:44.400
in our life, we can look to and say, if they're okay and if they're good, then I'm, then

2931
02:10:44.400 --> 02:10:45.400
I can be good.

2932
02:10:45.400 --> 02:10:50.120
When you can be that person for others, you're a leader, you are the leader.

2933
02:10:50.120 --> 02:10:53.520
This is probably the defining trait of, I think, people that I have employed over the

2934
02:10:53.520 --> 02:10:59.040
years that I would consider a leader or not a leader, is how different they are when

2935
02:10:59.040 --> 02:11:00.720
shit has hit the fan.

2936
02:11:00.720 --> 02:11:07.280
If there is seemingly no difference in the way they're conducting themselves, leader, emotional

2937
02:11:07.280 --> 02:11:12.920
regulator, they bring the temperature down and then you have the inverse, where the minute

2938
02:11:12.920 --> 02:11:18.720
any kind of sign of trouble, there's stress, there's, there's overwhelm and it's contagious.

2939
02:11:18.720 --> 02:11:22.920
What they need is the conflite attendant to regulate them.

2940
02:11:22.920 --> 02:11:27.000
I think, and people, I think who want to be leaders in their professional lives, should

2941
02:11:27.000 --> 02:11:30.760
really think about this, like, how do you show up when things are hard?

2942
02:11:30.760 --> 02:11:35.240
I always tell the story of one of my friends called Oliver, who, when I employed him, must

2943
02:11:35.240 --> 02:11:38.800
have been seven, eight years ago, okay, he wasn't my friend when I hired him.

2944
02:11:38.800 --> 02:11:49.200
But the defining trait of Oliver was that he would deliver me good and bad news the

2945
02:11:49.200 --> 02:11:50.200
same.

2946
02:11:50.880 --> 02:11:56.840
With the same sort of nonchalant, calm demeanor.

2947
02:11:56.840 --> 02:12:00.280
So he'd walk up to me and say, you know, we've just signed Uber across America, we're

2948
02:12:00.280 --> 02:12:05.360
going to be there, and then the days where everything was on fire, he'd walk up to me, it seemed

2949
02:12:05.360 --> 02:12:06.360
clever, chat.

2950
02:12:06.360 --> 02:12:07.360
I'd say, yeah, cool.

2951
02:12:07.360 --> 02:12:08.360
It'd say just so you know.

2952
02:12:08.360 --> 02:12:11.600
And then he'd deliver some of the worst shot I've ever had in my entire life.

2953
02:12:11.600 --> 02:12:17.440
But he'd do it in such a calm way that I both, I was calm and I thought he had it under

2954
02:12:17.440 --> 02:12:18.440
control.

2955
02:12:18.440 --> 02:12:19.440
Right.

2956
02:12:19.440 --> 02:12:22.800
He's thinking, I need to put more people under this guy, because he's going to bring

2957
02:12:22.800 --> 02:12:23.800
us down.

2958
02:12:23.800 --> 02:12:28.960
And so I just think as employees, I wouldn't have known that my boss or my employer is thinking

2959
02:12:28.960 --> 02:12:33.520
this unless someone had sent it to me, they're watching how I deal with things when she

2960
02:12:33.520 --> 02:12:34.520
hits the fan.

2961
02:12:34.520 --> 02:12:35.520
They're always watching.

2962
02:12:35.520 --> 02:12:39.200
Anyways, I mean, you take people that are watching you and your team, you have a large

2963
02:12:39.200 --> 02:12:40.200
team.

2964
02:12:40.200 --> 02:12:46.400
When you are upset and anxious, everybody feels it and spreads.

2965
02:12:46.400 --> 02:12:50.520
And if you're the one that's calm, that spreads too.

2966
02:12:50.520 --> 02:12:58.000
And so it's, and you have to get to the situation where if you're upset, then people know it's

2967
02:12:58.000 --> 02:13:00.160
something to be upset about.

2968
02:13:00.160 --> 02:13:06.840
You know, if you know, I had a friend in college, he was upset about everything.

2969
02:13:06.840 --> 02:13:10.680
I mean, he just was a hothead and he got upset about the smallest things.

2970
02:13:10.680 --> 02:13:14.280
How can you possibly tell the difference between what is a small thing and a big thing?

2971
02:13:14.280 --> 02:13:21.280
If you're always having the same level of reaction, but if you have a calmness, unless

2972
02:13:21.280 --> 02:13:25.800
say then you have an explosion because it happens because you're human, that's when people

2973
02:13:25.800 --> 02:13:28.880
know this is something serious.

2974
02:13:28.880 --> 02:13:32.560
Because if you're always operated at a tin, nobody's going to appreciate it when it's really

2975
02:13:32.560 --> 02:13:33.560
an 11.

2976
02:13:33.560 --> 02:13:37.360
When you think about like military generals and leaders, they also have this other side

2977
02:13:37.360 --> 02:13:41.720
to them, which is they do also protect the standard.

2978
02:13:41.720 --> 02:13:46.960
I think there's a balance that's almost needed here between being non-shelon in those

2979
02:13:46.960 --> 02:13:51.200
moments where something bad's happened, we can't control it now, and then how you defend

2980
02:13:51.200 --> 02:13:52.200
the standard.

2981
02:13:52.200 --> 02:13:55.480
So like you watch the military barracks or whatever when they're going through training,

2982
02:13:55.480 --> 02:13:58.720
these leaders are like screaming at them about the standards, about the buttons, about

2983
02:13:58.720 --> 02:14:02.040
iron your shirt, make your boots clean.

2984
02:14:02.040 --> 02:14:06.520
And so it appears on one end that they are petty about something.

2985
02:14:06.520 --> 02:14:08.520
And they are remote, you know, these leaders are emotional.

2986
02:14:08.520 --> 02:14:13.160
You look at their football managers or sporting managers.

2987
02:14:13.160 --> 02:14:18.120
They almost exist in a bit of a dichotomy, which is like knowing when to be controlled

2988
02:14:18.120 --> 02:14:25.280
and then knowing when to be emotionally, seemingly emotionally irrational about something.

2989
02:14:25.280 --> 02:14:31.520
Yeah, and I think those specific situations are also part of a system.

2990
02:14:31.520 --> 02:14:35.200
This is a system that they've seen produce the outcome that they want.

2991
02:14:35.200 --> 02:14:41.400
So they know that there's a utility to having that big reaction or there's a purpose behind

2992
02:14:41.400 --> 02:14:42.400
it.

2993
02:14:42.400 --> 02:14:48.280
What I find is the negative is when you have people who there's not utility, they just, they

2994
02:14:48.280 --> 02:14:50.640
don't have the words.

2995
02:14:50.640 --> 02:14:56.120
The leaders who, let's say, curse a lot because they don't really have the vocabulary.

2996
02:14:56.120 --> 02:15:01.680
You know, they would rather have big emotional reactions.

2997
02:15:01.680 --> 02:15:06.920
But when you have that type of language that is not going to show that you're in control

2998
02:15:06.920 --> 02:15:10.720
of your emotions, you're just less believable.

2999
02:15:10.720 --> 02:15:12.520
All I had to do was brain dump.

3000
02:15:12.520 --> 02:15:17.320
Imagine if you had someone with you all times that could take the ideas you have in your

3001
02:15:17.320 --> 02:15:22.320
head, synthesize them with AI to make them sound better and more grammatically correct

3002
02:15:22.320 --> 02:15:24.400
and write them down for you.

3003
02:15:24.400 --> 02:15:26.560
This is exactly what whisper flow is in my life.

3004
02:15:26.560 --> 02:15:30.960
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3005
02:15:30.960 --> 02:15:36.080
on the go, when I'm alone in my office, when I'm out in a bar out, I can respond to emails

3006
02:15:36.080 --> 02:15:40.120
and slack messages and whatsapps and everything across all of my devices just by speaking.

3007
02:15:40.120 --> 02:15:43.440
I love this tool and I started talking about this from my behind the scenes channel a couple

3008
02:15:43.440 --> 02:15:46.680
of months back and then the founder reached out to me and said, we're seeing a lot of people

3009
02:15:46.680 --> 02:15:48.080
come to our tool because of you.

3010
02:15:48.080 --> 02:15:51.040
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3011
02:15:51.040 --> 02:15:54.520
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3012
02:15:54.520 --> 02:15:57.000
in a company called Whisper Flow.

3013
02:15:57.000 --> 02:15:58.000
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3014
02:15:58.000 --> 02:16:00.720
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3015
02:16:00.720 --> 02:16:05.720
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3016
02:16:05.720 --> 02:16:11.240
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3017
02:16:11.240 --> 02:16:15.800
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3018
02:16:15.800 --> 02:16:20.920
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3019
02:16:20.920 --> 02:16:21.920
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3020
02:16:21.920 --> 02:16:27.520
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3021
02:16:27.520 --> 02:16:29.320
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3022
02:16:29.320 --> 02:16:34.520
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3023
02:16:34.520 --> 02:16:35.920
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3024
02:16:35.920 --> 02:16:40.280
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3025
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3026
02:16:42.760 --> 02:16:47.160
It's for those who are ready to make the share from thinking to building, from planning,

3027
02:16:47.160 --> 02:16:48.640
to actually doing the thing.

3028
02:16:48.640 --> 02:16:51.720
It's about seeing that dream in your head and knowing exactly what it takes to bring

3029
02:16:51.720 --> 02:16:55.160
it to life, enter to win $100,000 for your dream.

3030
02:16:55.160 --> 02:16:56.960
All you have to do is share what it is.

3031
02:16:56.960 --> 02:17:01.280
And more at dare to dream.stan.store.

3032
02:17:01.280 --> 02:17:02.280
So that was number three.

3033
02:17:02.280 --> 02:17:03.280
Yeah.

3034
02:17:03.280 --> 02:17:04.280
Stop ever explaining yourself.

3035
02:17:04.280 --> 02:17:05.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3036
02:17:05.280 --> 02:17:09.720
His second one was reducing distractions and the first was authenticity, number four.

3037
02:17:09.720 --> 02:17:15.120
Know how to deal with their sadness.

3038
02:17:15.120 --> 02:17:23.480
A lot of people are hurting that you don't know are hurting and a lot of people are grieving

3039
02:17:23.480 --> 02:17:25.520
that you don't know are grieving.

3040
02:17:25.520 --> 02:17:31.520
Whether it's the holidays, whether it's an important date or event that you don't know

3041
02:17:31.520 --> 02:17:34.640
about in their life and they're hurting and grieving.

3042
02:17:34.640 --> 02:17:39.640
If you really want to be a top level communicator, you need to know not to say, well, not only

3043
02:17:39.640 --> 02:17:43.680
when the times are good, but also when the times are bad.

3044
02:17:43.680 --> 02:17:47.120
And how does one be there for someone when they're going through their moments of sadness?

3045
02:17:47.120 --> 02:17:49.320
Is there any principles that one should think about?

3046
02:17:49.320 --> 02:17:50.320
Yeah.

3047
02:17:50.320 --> 02:17:53.120
He is grieving.

3048
02:17:53.120 --> 02:18:02.760
What you do not do is begin with let me know if, if you, if what you are about to say

3049
02:18:02.760 --> 02:18:07.560
begins is let me know if it's the wrong thing to say.

3050
02:18:07.560 --> 02:18:09.520
Let me know if you need anything.

3051
02:18:09.520 --> 02:18:11.840
Let me know if I can do anything for you.

3052
02:18:11.840 --> 02:18:15.000
Just let me know anything you need, let me know.

3053
02:18:15.000 --> 02:18:17.560
All you're doing is giving them a chore.

3054
02:18:17.880 --> 02:18:22.280
This person's already grieving at this moment.

3055
02:18:22.280 --> 02:18:25.920
It's they're going through something you don't even know how to feel and you're now

3056
02:18:25.920 --> 02:18:33.480
giving them a chore of if they're supposed to be on their own to have the ability to pull

3057
02:18:33.480 --> 02:18:38.920
out their phone, text their need to you.

3058
02:18:38.920 --> 02:18:40.560
That's never going to happen.

3059
02:18:40.560 --> 02:18:43.960
Have you ever had somebody who say, let me know if you need anything, actually let you

3060
02:18:43.960 --> 02:18:45.200
know that they needed something.

3061
02:18:45.200 --> 02:18:46.200
Never.

3062
02:18:46.520 --> 02:18:53.840
Now you've made it more comfortable on you and now more of an obligation on them.

3063
02:18:53.840 --> 02:18:55.360
And we go, well, you know what?

3064
02:18:55.360 --> 02:18:58.640
I said all I need to say, let me know if you need anything.

3065
02:18:58.640 --> 02:19:01.040
Let me know how I can help.

3066
02:19:01.040 --> 02:19:06.040
When all you've done is just given them an obligation, you've burdened it even more.

3067
02:19:06.040 --> 02:19:07.640
Of course, they don't want to burden you.

3068
02:19:07.640 --> 02:19:10.880
They don't even want to live in some of these moments.

3069
02:19:10.880 --> 02:19:11.880
They don't want to exist.

3070
02:19:11.880 --> 02:19:13.400
They don't know how to do it.

3071
02:19:13.680 --> 02:19:16.200
Saying, let me know if isn't going to help them.

3072
02:19:16.200 --> 02:19:19.720
Instead, here's what you do in some ice grieving.

3073
02:19:19.720 --> 02:19:21.240
You do the thing.

3074
02:19:21.240 --> 02:19:23.880
Whatever you thought about doing, go do it.

3075
02:19:23.880 --> 02:19:28.440
If you wanted to bring them dinner or said, let me know if you need any food, just go

3076
02:19:28.440 --> 02:19:29.440
get them food.

3077
02:19:29.440 --> 02:19:30.440
Go do the task.

3078
02:19:30.440 --> 02:19:31.440
Go run the errand.

3079
02:19:31.440 --> 02:19:32.880
Go show up and do their laundry.

3080
02:19:32.880 --> 02:19:35.480
Go, mother yard for them.

3081
02:19:35.480 --> 02:19:37.400
Go do the thing.

3082
02:19:37.400 --> 02:19:40.960
If I really want you to be there for me and you really want to be there for the other

3083
02:19:40.960 --> 02:19:43.360
person, you don't have to.

3084
02:19:44.360 --> 02:19:45.360
You just go do.

3085
02:19:45.360 --> 02:19:50.840
Second of all, I find a lot of time people who are with somebody who's grieving, they don't

3086
02:19:50.840 --> 02:19:51.840
know what to say.

3087
02:19:51.840 --> 02:19:52.840
They want to say something.

3088
02:19:52.840 --> 02:19:53.840
I want to say something.

3089
02:19:53.840 --> 02:19:55.040
I don't really know what to say.

3090
02:19:55.040 --> 02:19:57.080
I feel uncomfortable.

3091
02:19:57.080 --> 02:19:58.240
What I say is not going to be enough.

3092
02:19:58.240 --> 02:20:01.200
They just stare at their phone and they kind of takes out a sentence and they delete it

3093
02:20:01.200 --> 02:20:03.200
because they don't really know what to say.

3094
02:20:03.200 --> 02:20:07.440
The best thing to say is just to validate how you would assume it's going to be feeling

3095
02:20:07.440 --> 02:20:08.440
for them.

3096
02:20:08.800 --> 02:20:11.560
Nobody deserves what happened.

3097
02:20:11.560 --> 02:20:13.560
This is totally unfair.

3098
02:20:13.560 --> 02:20:15.320
I can't believe this has happened.

3099
02:20:15.320 --> 02:20:17.680
Nobody deserves this.

3100
02:20:17.680 --> 02:20:24.680
Be able to express and confirm that what they're feeling is exactly what they should be

3101
02:20:24.680 --> 02:20:25.680
feeling.

3102
02:20:25.680 --> 02:20:28.880
Don't go in with the, at least they're in a better place.

3103
02:20:28.880 --> 02:20:30.120
Hey, you know what?

3104
02:20:30.120 --> 02:20:31.120
Everything happens for a reason.

3105
02:20:31.120 --> 02:20:34.000
That's not the right time to say that, if ever.

3106
02:20:34.000 --> 02:20:39.880
To be able to try and make them feel better of, oh, you know, I just, at least they're,

3107
02:20:39.880 --> 02:20:43.200
you know, not, is there anything I can do?

3108
02:20:43.200 --> 02:20:44.200
Any of that kind of stuff?

3109
02:20:44.200 --> 02:20:45.520
It's like, yeah, I know what you can do.

3110
02:20:45.520 --> 02:20:46.520
You can bring that person back.

3111
02:20:46.520 --> 02:20:47.520
That's what you can do.

3112
02:20:47.520 --> 02:20:48.520
That's not going to happen.

3113
02:20:48.520 --> 02:20:49.520
You can't do that.

3114
02:20:49.520 --> 02:20:52.520
And so you catch yourself in a corner where you genuinely have an interest.

3115
02:20:52.520 --> 02:20:56.720
How many times people will say, you're in our thoughts, you're in my thoughts and prayers.

3116
02:20:56.720 --> 02:21:02.520
Thoughts and prayers, you know, praying for you and they haven't once sent up a prayer.

3117
02:21:02.520 --> 02:21:03.520
Right?

3118
02:21:03.520 --> 02:21:04.680
They're just saying it.

3119
02:21:04.680 --> 02:21:09.160
If you really mean it, text out the prayer to them.

3120
02:21:09.160 --> 02:21:10.160
Text the prayer.

3121
02:21:10.160 --> 02:21:16.160
Dear God, I'm, I said, you be with Stephen right now with what, send the prayer to them.

3122
02:21:16.160 --> 02:21:21.840
Why not encourage them in that versus just saying, hey, just keeping you in my thoughts.

3123
02:21:21.840 --> 02:21:25.000
If you are, then text them thinking about you.

3124
02:21:25.000 --> 02:21:26.920
No need to respond.

3125
02:21:26.920 --> 02:21:30.720
You think just putting it in a Facebook comment is going to do enough.

3126
02:21:30.720 --> 02:21:35.560
Just here in our prayers, that's, that's not connection and that's not authentic.

3127
02:21:35.560 --> 02:21:38.120
That's, that's, that's the easy shortcut.

3128
02:21:38.120 --> 02:21:42.080
I think I've spent my whole life struggling with those moments where something bad has

3129
02:21:42.080 --> 02:21:46.080
happened to someone or they've been through something and you, you found out over text

3130
02:21:46.080 --> 02:21:53.400
message and you don't have to use, don't know what to say, you're like, I'm so sorry.

3131
02:21:53.400 --> 02:21:57.160
And the last times I've written something and then deleted it and written something and

3132
02:21:57.160 --> 02:22:03.800
then deleted it and I actually got some feedback from Samir, who is a very well-known YouTuber,

3133
02:22:03.800 --> 02:22:09.160
creator and he's, he's part of a YouTube channel called Colin and Samir, their, their houses

3134
02:22:09.160 --> 02:22:14.360
burnt down in the Palisades Fire and I'd say, what, four, five, six months later, he came

3135
02:22:14.360 --> 02:22:21.240
up to me in New York and said, um, thank you for the message you sent me because it was

3136
02:22:21.240 --> 02:22:25.960
specific and I, and I've got, there's a, we have a clip of it because we were recording

3137
02:22:25.960 --> 02:22:29.560
at the time, we were, I'd just come off stage and he was at his, at his event in New

3138
02:22:29.560 --> 02:22:32.840
York and he'd come up to me and said it and it always stayed with me that he remembered

3139
02:22:32.840 --> 02:22:33.840
six months later.

3140
02:22:33.840 --> 02:22:37.760
I didn't even really remember the message, I said, he remembered six months later that

3141
02:22:37.760 --> 02:22:42.160
when his house had back burnt down, they both just had, I think they both had like less

3142
02:22:42.160 --> 02:22:46.360
than one year old kids and then both of the houses had burnt down.

3143
02:22:46.360 --> 02:22:49.600
I sent him something specific I could help him with.

3144
02:22:49.600 --> 02:22:53.360
I can't, I can't remember the details of what I said but he came up and said, thank you

3145
02:22:53.360 --> 02:22:56.600
for sending me something, lots of people sent me messages but I remember you sent me

3146
02:22:56.600 --> 02:22:58.360
something specific.

3147
02:22:58.360 --> 02:23:06.560
That hits the theme of when you stop trying to be what's most convenient to you and start

3148
02:23:06.560 --> 02:23:10.920
doing what might be just a slightly a little bit more uncomfortable, a little bit more

3149
02:23:10.920 --> 02:23:17.520
work, a choice to do something different and be more specific in the thought to, to not

3150
02:23:17.520 --> 02:23:21.560
just say, so sorry to hear, right?

3151
02:23:22.280 --> 02:23:23.280
That's injustice.

3152
02:23:23.280 --> 02:23:25.800
I mean, that's, that doesn't even touch it.

3153
02:23:25.800 --> 02:23:32.160
But if you were to say, you were to say what is happening is totally unfair.

3154
02:23:32.160 --> 02:23:35.560
I agree with it, be specific with it.

3155
02:23:35.560 --> 02:23:38.080
Same thing with, it's the same with compliments.

3156
02:23:38.080 --> 02:23:41.000
The more specific it is, the more genuine it is.

3157
02:23:41.000 --> 02:23:45.720
The person that you remember the longest is the person who's able to be right there

3158
02:23:45.720 --> 02:23:49.360
with you and say exactly what you're feeling in that moment.

3159
02:23:49.360 --> 02:23:55.720
And make a genuine offer to support a real, and also, as you said at the start, not

3160
02:23:55.720 --> 02:23:59.480
an offer that they have to accept, because no one accepts them.

3161
02:23:59.480 --> 02:24:00.480
Yeah.

3162
02:24:00.480 --> 02:24:05.640
Or the make it a condition that they have to reach out to you in order to you consider

3163
02:24:05.640 --> 02:24:06.640
giving it.

3164
02:24:06.640 --> 02:24:07.640
Yeah.

3165
02:24:07.640 --> 02:24:13.480
Instead of just doing it, or even when you feel that like I don't really know what to

3166
02:24:13.480 --> 02:24:21.040
say, but I'm, you know, if I were them, this is what I want and go do the thing.

3167
02:24:21.040 --> 02:24:23.280
Otherwise, don't say it if you don't mean it.

3168
02:24:23.280 --> 02:24:30.960
I mean, that's just the, to me, that's a sign of, you're, you're not their person.

3169
02:24:30.960 --> 02:24:35.640
Because there's so many people that are just fair weather friends that they, they want

3170
02:24:35.640 --> 02:24:40.040
to be there and be part of the success, but when your face is on the floor and you're

3171
02:24:40.040 --> 02:24:43.880
at rock bottom, the people you'll remember are the people that show up.

3172
02:24:43.880 --> 02:24:44.880
Amen.

3173
02:24:44.880 --> 02:24:47.960
I've heard that so many times from my guests on this podcast, but they talk about their

3174
02:24:47.960 --> 02:24:48.960
hardest moment.

3175
02:24:48.960 --> 02:24:53.840
And it's always who showed up in that moment that number five.

3176
02:24:53.840 --> 02:25:00.120
If you want to be a better communicator, you have to know how to handle the insults,

3177
02:25:00.120 --> 02:25:06.520
the backbiting, the dismissive, the belittling, the patronizing, the words that people

3178
02:25:06.520 --> 02:25:10.240
use to try and inflict pain.

3179
02:25:10.240 --> 02:25:13.000
What do I do?

3180
02:25:13.000 --> 02:25:17.040
If you want to handle somebody who's trying to hurt you with their words, the first thing

3181
02:25:17.040 --> 02:25:25.440
you have to do is have a bunch of silence or it's five to seven seconds of nothing.

3182
02:25:25.440 --> 02:25:29.400
Make it, make it enough to words uncomfortable where they, they know this is not going to

3183
02:25:29.400 --> 02:25:30.400
be fun.

3184
02:25:30.400 --> 02:25:36.440
Number two, as you ask them to repeat it, I need you to say that again.

3185
02:25:36.440 --> 02:25:39.640
I need you, I, I need you to repeat that.

3186
02:25:39.640 --> 02:25:41.800
Most of the time people can't do it.

3187
02:25:41.800 --> 02:25:45.960
And number three, if I need to, I ask them, did you mean?

3188
02:25:45.960 --> 02:25:50.560
Did you mean for that to sound rude?

3189
02:25:50.560 --> 02:25:52.040
Did you mean for that to sound short?

3190
02:25:52.040 --> 02:25:54.160
Did you mean for that to sound upsetting?

3191
02:25:54.160 --> 02:26:03.800
And what it does is allow you to be able to operate in a way that doesn't allow their

3192
02:26:03.800 --> 02:26:09.160
words to hurt you or to touch you or they cut you.

3193
02:26:09.160 --> 02:26:13.520
Whenever somebody is saying something that's, to belittle you or insult you, they're, they're

3194
02:26:13.520 --> 02:26:17.320
putting a big spotlight on themselves and they're hoping to throw it on to you to get

3195
02:26:17.320 --> 02:26:18.320
your reaction.

3196
02:26:18.320 --> 02:26:20.880
So they're going to, I'm going to say something hurtful to you and then it's like, they're

3197
02:26:20.880 --> 02:26:22.640
turning the spotlight right to you.

3198
02:26:22.640 --> 02:26:28.920
And then when you ask a question, when you have a bunch of silence, it allows their

3199
02:26:28.920 --> 02:26:30.960
words to kind of echo back to them.

3200
02:26:30.960 --> 02:26:34.880
A lot of people will, before they even have to say anything, they'll go, I shouldn't

3201
02:26:34.880 --> 02:26:35.880
have said that.

3202
02:26:35.880 --> 02:26:40.120
The more silence you have, the more awkward it becomes and they kind of have to take

3203
02:26:40.120 --> 02:26:41.120
it back.

3204
02:26:41.120 --> 02:26:42.120
They realize you didn't take the bait.

3205
02:26:42.120 --> 02:26:45.080
But when you put the spotlight and you asked the question, did you, did you mean for

3206
02:26:45.080 --> 02:26:49.200
that to embarrass me?

3207
02:26:49.200 --> 02:26:52.560
Did you mean for that to sound hurtful?

3208
02:26:52.560 --> 02:26:55.160
They can't bear the thought of saying yes to that.

3209
02:26:55.160 --> 02:26:56.280
So they have to tweak it.

3210
02:26:56.280 --> 02:26:58.000
They have to fix it.

3211
02:26:58.000 --> 02:26:59.000
They have to go.

3212
02:26:59.000 --> 02:27:03.880
I mean, what I meant to say was, and they go a different way.

3213
02:27:03.880 --> 02:27:07.160
Now, if they were to double down and say, yes, that's exactly what I meant.

3214
02:27:07.160 --> 02:27:09.240
You could just say, thank you for letting me know.

3215
02:27:09.240 --> 02:27:12.240
I was thinking about like the neuroscience of what's going on there.

3216
02:27:12.240 --> 02:27:13.240
Yeah.

3217
02:27:13.240 --> 02:27:18.440
When you get someone to admit that they're hurtful, I remember interviewing some neuroscientists

3218
02:27:18.440 --> 02:27:22.680
who talked about the side of cognitive dissonance, which is where like, we all have a perception

3219
02:27:22.680 --> 02:27:24.480
of who we are.

3220
02:27:24.480 --> 02:27:30.640
And I guess by what you're doing there, you're creating the cognitive dissonance, which

3221
02:27:30.640 --> 02:27:37.880
is the cognitive mental discomfort by making me kind of look in the mirror, who I just

3222
02:27:37.880 --> 02:27:38.880
acted like.

3223
02:27:38.880 --> 02:27:42.760
If I don't think I'm a hurtful person, if I say something super hurtful, and then you

3224
02:27:42.760 --> 02:27:47.440
ask me, if I meant to be hurtful, you're immediately like speaking to my identity.

3225
02:27:47.440 --> 02:27:48.440
Yes.

3226
02:27:48.440 --> 02:27:49.440
And I don't want it.

3227
02:27:49.440 --> 02:27:50.440
I'm not a hurtful person.

3228
02:27:50.440 --> 02:27:51.440
Right.

3229
02:27:51.760 --> 02:27:56.000
Which is the sort of the disparity between who I think I am and how I just behaved.

3230
02:27:56.000 --> 02:27:57.000
Yes.

3231
02:27:57.000 --> 02:27:58.000
And so I have to alleviate one of them.

3232
02:27:58.000 --> 02:27:59.000
I have to make sense.

3233
02:27:59.000 --> 02:28:00.000
Yes.

3234
02:28:00.000 --> 02:28:01.240
Nobody believes they're on the side of bad.

3235
02:28:01.240 --> 02:28:03.320
They always think they're on the side of good.

3236
02:28:03.320 --> 02:28:09.280
So by you saying that to me, I immediately have to confirm that I am a person who's intent

3237
02:28:09.280 --> 02:28:10.280
on hurting others.

3238
02:28:10.280 --> 02:28:11.280
Yes.

3239
02:28:11.280 --> 02:28:12.280
That's not a rule what I wanted to do.

3240
02:28:12.280 --> 02:28:13.280
I just wanted to gaslight you a little bit.

3241
02:28:13.280 --> 02:28:14.280
Yes.

3242
02:28:14.280 --> 02:28:15.280
I just want to cause you pain.

3243
02:28:15.280 --> 02:28:16.280
Yeah.

3244
02:28:16.280 --> 02:28:20.280
And so in that moment, it's what they're thinking and feeling is, I want you to hurt like

3245
02:28:20.280 --> 02:28:21.280
I'm hurt.

3246
02:28:21.280 --> 02:28:25.040
I want you, I want to feel the control because I don't have a sense of control.

3247
02:28:25.040 --> 02:28:26.240
And now I'm feeling a certain way.

3248
02:28:26.240 --> 02:28:27.240
I'm upset.

3249
02:28:27.240 --> 02:28:31.520
So if I can make you upset, well, then I can have, now I can feel better and more justified

3250
02:28:31.520 --> 02:28:33.000
about how I'm feeling.

3251
02:28:33.000 --> 02:28:39.080
And so some people will, especially the manipulative ones, they'll be upset, say something to make

3252
02:28:39.080 --> 02:28:42.840
you upset and then turn around and go, I don't know why you're so upset.

3253
02:28:42.840 --> 02:28:43.840
I'm fine.

3254
02:28:43.840 --> 02:28:44.840
I'm just fine.

3255
02:28:44.840 --> 02:28:45.840
I don't know why you're so upset.

3256
02:28:45.840 --> 02:28:47.000
And because they've just left you in it.

3257
02:28:47.000 --> 02:28:50.320
And now they, all they've done is just pass it on to you.

3258
02:28:50.320 --> 02:28:54.120
I don't like this feeling, so now I'm going to give it to you and I'm totally good.

3259
02:28:54.120 --> 02:28:55.840
What are you talking about?

3260
02:28:55.840 --> 02:29:01.600
I had a situation in a gym a long time ago where I was on a machine in a guy, he said that

3261
02:29:01.600 --> 02:29:04.240
these machines were here, so he wanted to use them all.

3262
02:29:04.240 --> 02:29:07.160
And he just came up to me, this was a long, long time ago.

3263
02:29:07.160 --> 02:29:13.080
And he was so like, out of pocket, like he was, you talked about being in the pocket.

3264
02:29:13.080 --> 02:29:18.200
Like super emotional within like 15 seconds, this sort of slightly older gentleman.

3265
02:29:18.200 --> 02:29:20.960
And basically like, ask me if I wanted to have a fight.

3266
02:29:20.960 --> 02:29:25.400
And it was so bizarre to me that I felt like an observer and I genuinely, anybody else

3267
02:29:25.400 --> 02:29:26.400
seeing this?

3268
02:29:26.400 --> 02:29:27.400
No, it was just me hitting him in the gym.

3269
02:29:27.400 --> 02:29:33.200
And I was so, I felt like David Attenborough and I was just like, and I did it inadvertently

3270
02:29:33.200 --> 02:29:35.240
did what you said, which is, my turn didn't change at all.

3271
02:29:35.240 --> 02:29:36.240
I spoke to him like this.

3272
02:29:36.240 --> 02:29:38.640
Did you just ask me for a fight in the gym?

3273
02:29:38.640 --> 02:29:43.960
I was like, and then the more, because I asked Jen, like genuine, curious questions.

3274
02:29:43.960 --> 02:29:44.960
Right.

3275
02:29:44.960 --> 02:29:45.960
And it immediately disarmed him.

3276
02:29:45.960 --> 02:29:46.960
Yes.

3277
02:29:46.960 --> 02:29:47.960
I don't do that to strangers in the gym.

3278
02:29:47.960 --> 02:29:48.960
I'm like, I'm sorry.

3279
02:29:48.960 --> 02:29:49.960
I'm sorry.

3280
02:29:49.960 --> 02:29:50.960
Yeah.

3281
02:29:50.960 --> 02:29:51.960
But that's what it is.

3282
02:29:51.960 --> 02:29:52.960
Are you okay?

3283
02:29:52.960 --> 02:29:56.280
You know, it's, you know, I have to like have to check on them for a certain, because most

3284
02:29:56.280 --> 02:30:00.960
of the time, when you're hearing them yell and say all the things, what they're truly

3285
02:30:00.960 --> 02:30:03.680
signaling is, I'm not okay.

3286
02:30:03.680 --> 02:30:05.400
There's always something else that's going on.

3287
02:30:05.400 --> 02:30:10.680
I've done it before, where somebody said something hurtful and I said, how did you expect

3288
02:30:10.680 --> 02:30:12.760
me to respond to that?

3289
02:30:12.760 --> 02:30:14.880
Or how were you wanting me to respond to that?

3290
02:30:14.880 --> 02:30:17.120
How did you think I was going to respond?

3291
02:30:17.120 --> 02:30:22.880
And it's, I've never had it where they got, well, I expected you to say an insult.

3292
02:30:22.880 --> 02:30:28.360
Like it's always them backpedaling and then trying to explain how they're feeling in

3293
02:30:28.360 --> 02:30:32.160
that moment, because they, they don't know, they don't know how to, to do it.

3294
02:30:32.160 --> 02:30:38.960
If I can stop, put aside like you did, your frustration and say, are you asking me for

3295
02:30:38.960 --> 02:30:40.760
a fight right now?

3296
02:30:40.760 --> 02:30:43.240
You know, is that what you're really asking for?

3297
02:30:43.240 --> 02:30:45.960
That kind of, are you okay, kind of thing?

3298
02:30:45.960 --> 02:30:48.640
That'll, all of a sudden, your frustration now goes away.

3299
02:30:48.640 --> 02:30:50.040
You've changed the frame completely.

3300
02:30:50.040 --> 02:30:51.040
Absolutely.

3301
02:30:51.040 --> 02:30:53.080
Because the frame they wanted was aggression.

3302
02:30:53.080 --> 02:30:57.800
Maybe that's the language or the frame that they know as the way to solve problems.

3303
02:30:57.800 --> 02:31:01.240
But yours was like, in that scenario, changed the curiosity, which was like, what, how did

3304
02:31:01.240 --> 02:31:02.240
that?

3305
02:31:02.240 --> 02:31:03.240
Yeah.

3306
02:31:03.240 --> 02:31:10.160
Any time you actually have a mindset of, instead of having something, well, don't have

3307
02:31:10.160 --> 02:31:12.920
something to prove, have something to learn.

3308
02:31:12.920 --> 02:31:16.920
So in that moment, you could have easily tried to prove something of who, who do you

3309
02:31:16.920 --> 02:31:18.320
think you're talking to?

3310
02:31:18.320 --> 02:31:23.000
Do you know what I, you could have played that car and said you actually got curious of,

3311
02:31:23.000 --> 02:31:24.000
what's going on here?

3312
02:31:24.000 --> 02:31:27.440
Are you asking me for questions or powerful that way?

3313
02:31:27.520 --> 02:31:31.440
Questions are disarming for somebody who's trying to be aggressive with you because they're

3314
02:31:31.440 --> 02:31:34.600
not looking for that type of mirror.

3315
02:31:34.600 --> 02:31:35.600
They don't want a mirror.

3316
02:31:35.600 --> 02:31:38.760
They don't want to see the ugly that they're putting out there.

3317
02:31:38.760 --> 02:31:44.760
But anytime somebody has that very aggressive, I have so many people who go, somebody said

3318
02:31:44.760 --> 02:31:49.040
this to me and was so ugly and said this horrible thing.

3319
02:31:49.040 --> 02:31:52.640
And they're looking for a quick comeback, which I can give it to them.

3320
02:31:52.640 --> 02:31:57.080
But if they really care about the relationship, I say, okay, assume they said it at normal

3321
02:31:57.080 --> 02:31:58.080
volume.

3322
02:31:58.080 --> 02:31:59.080
What's their need?

3323
02:31:59.080 --> 02:32:01.400
Like, what are they, really, really feeling?

3324
02:32:01.400 --> 02:32:05.800
Because if you just respond to the reaction, you're, you're not going to hear the end of

3325
02:32:05.800 --> 02:32:06.800
it.

3326
02:32:06.800 --> 02:32:07.800
And we will have triggers.

3327
02:32:07.800 --> 02:32:08.800
Same.

3328
02:32:08.800 --> 02:32:09.800
I definitely have mine.

3329
02:32:09.800 --> 02:32:12.040
I can't, I can't, I can't say anything.

3330
02:32:12.040 --> 02:32:20.080
I'll tell you one of the biggest things that has helped me too in any, any, if anybody's

3331
02:32:20.080 --> 02:32:25.200
wanting to improve their personal relationships with a partner or anything.

3332
02:32:25.200 --> 02:32:30.360
This one is understanding, validate first.

3333
02:32:30.360 --> 02:32:31.760
Frustration comes next.

3334
02:32:31.760 --> 02:32:34.320
If I respond first with frustration, I'm going to lose every time.

3335
02:32:34.320 --> 02:32:35.320
So it's validating.

3336
02:32:35.320 --> 02:32:37.320
It's saying, of course, you feel this way.

3337
02:32:37.320 --> 02:32:38.320
It totally makes sense.

3338
02:32:38.320 --> 02:32:42.160
I can see how you feel that way, acknowledging that it's okay for them to feel that way.

3339
02:32:42.160 --> 02:32:45.840
Otherwise, the partner is going to feel like I'm being too much.

3340
02:32:45.840 --> 02:32:48.760
And if I'm being too much, then you're going to leave.

3341
02:32:48.760 --> 02:32:49.760
Right?

3342
02:32:49.760 --> 02:32:50.760
It's the, it's the same sense of abandonment.

3343
02:32:50.760 --> 02:32:56.280
So if I can hit that you're not being too much, I have the capacity in the, I can be elastic

3344
02:32:56.280 --> 02:33:00.400
in this relationship because I'm not going to be my best self all the time too.

3345
02:33:00.400 --> 02:33:04.040
But if I can give you a safe space for you to be messy and me to be messy, then you're

3346
02:33:04.040 --> 02:33:05.760
actually going to have that relationship.

3347
02:33:05.760 --> 02:33:16.440
Number two, it's understanding that resets is your Uno wild card asking for a reset.

3348
02:33:16.440 --> 02:33:20.120
If I were to say, you know what, I didn't say that right.

3349
02:33:20.120 --> 02:33:22.720
You know what, can I, can I try that again?

3350
02:33:22.720 --> 02:33:27.400
I didn't say that the best way did I, you know, I, I could have done that better.

3351
02:33:27.400 --> 02:33:30.520
As soon as I start and ask for a reset, I've never had anybody told me no.

3352
02:33:30.520 --> 02:33:31.520
Nobody goes, no, no.

3353
02:33:31.520 --> 02:33:32.520
You have to stick with it right now.

3354
02:33:32.520 --> 02:33:33.520
Go ahead, keep failing.

3355
02:33:33.520 --> 02:33:37.040
Like, we, in a video game, we wouldn't, why would you keep playing if you knew you were

3356
02:33:37.040 --> 02:33:38.200
ultimately going to lose?

3357
02:33:38.200 --> 02:33:40.480
It's, you restart, you try again.

3358
02:33:40.480 --> 02:33:45.280
And so given yourself the grace and the other person the grace to have the ability to start

3359
02:33:45.280 --> 02:33:50.160
over again is a necessary part of communicating in relationships.

3360
02:33:50.160 --> 02:33:57.680
And three is slice it thinner, a lot of the times if we're having a big conversation,

3361
02:33:57.680 --> 02:34:01.280
we bring out, somebody about bring up the past, that past thing and we just kind of added

3362
02:34:01.280 --> 02:34:05.960
on and clam it on when we start to kind of feel hopeless about it.

3363
02:34:05.960 --> 02:34:11.680
But if I can slice each issue by itself and say, I do want to talk about this, I want

3364
02:34:11.680 --> 02:34:16.320
to address what's in front of us first, that makes everything go a whole lot better.

3365
02:34:16.320 --> 02:34:21.800
But if I can slice each part and see the need and validate that, I've always seen

3366
02:34:21.800 --> 02:34:22.800
that go better.

3367
02:34:22.800 --> 02:34:30.200
And on that first point about how you engage with your partner during conflict, one of

3368
02:34:30.200 --> 02:34:34.720
the most useful things I heard recently was a clip actually sort of Brunei Brown talking

3369
02:34:34.720 --> 02:34:40.760
about when she comes home after like a long day, she will tell her partner how much she

3370
02:34:40.840 --> 02:34:42.360
has in the tank.

3371
02:34:42.360 --> 02:34:43.360
It's so good.

3372
02:34:43.360 --> 02:34:48.520
And so she'll turn to her partner and say, listen, I've got 10%, I can't do this today.

3373
02:34:48.520 --> 02:34:49.520
Right.

3374
02:34:49.520 --> 02:34:54.440
And I remember getting the clip and sending it to my partner because it's, that's some

3375
02:34:54.440 --> 02:34:57.800
of the vocabulary that probably would have really helped a lot of my relationships, which

3376
02:34:57.800 --> 02:35:01.480
is just first expressing where I'm operating from.

3377
02:35:01.480 --> 02:35:03.000
So good.

3378
02:35:03.000 --> 02:35:06.280
And I don't think anybody is going to be on the receiving end of, honestly, I've got

3379
02:35:06.280 --> 02:35:09.840
like 10% in the tank today and go, no, I want to do this now.

3380
02:35:09.840 --> 02:35:10.840
Exactly.

3381
02:35:10.840 --> 02:35:15.760
Well, using percentages in conversations incredibly hopeful, both in relationships like Brunei mentioned

3382
02:35:15.760 --> 02:35:16.760
of saying, you know what?

3383
02:35:16.760 --> 02:35:17.760
I got 10%.

3384
02:35:17.760 --> 02:35:18.760
You have 40%.

3385
02:35:18.760 --> 02:35:19.760
Let's put it together.

3386
02:35:19.760 --> 02:35:20.760
We're going to make it work.

3387
02:35:20.760 --> 02:35:22.720
But I at least know where you're coming from.

3388
02:35:22.720 --> 02:35:23.720
Same thing at work.

3389
02:35:23.720 --> 02:35:24.720
Right.

3390
02:35:24.720 --> 02:35:29.200
I've seen what I encourage is when people are in a meeting and they kind of put out an

3391
02:35:29.200 --> 02:35:30.200
idea.

3392
02:35:30.200 --> 02:35:31.200
All right.

3393
02:35:31.200 --> 02:35:35.360
Rather than going, what if, because what happens is everybody just starts to kill it.

3394
02:35:35.360 --> 02:35:39.640
You know, they start pointing arrows at it because it's, because it wasn't their idea.

3395
02:35:39.640 --> 02:35:41.640
So we need to take it down.

3396
02:35:41.640 --> 02:35:48.000
But if they come out and say, look, I got 30% of an idea that what happens magically is

3397
02:35:48.000 --> 02:35:50.440
that everybody else wants to join in.

3398
02:35:50.440 --> 02:35:55.240
So if I were to say, look, I see if I got 20% of an idea, I need your help with the other

3399
02:35:55.240 --> 02:35:56.240
80.

3400
02:35:56.240 --> 02:35:59.480
All of a sudden, you take it as a, oh, me, I can do that.

3401
02:35:59.480 --> 02:36:03.400
And then everybody else starts to build it up rather than trying to tear it down or even

3402
02:36:03.400 --> 02:36:08.680
if in conversation, if I say, look, I know I'm not going to have the right words, I'm going

3403
02:36:08.680 --> 02:36:14.440
to have about 60% of it, like that, at least of me confirming that I know what I'm saying

3404
02:36:14.440 --> 02:36:17.200
is not going to always be the right thing to say.

3405
02:36:17.200 --> 02:36:18.200
I wish I did that more.

3406
02:36:18.200 --> 02:36:20.480
This is, I believe this is the clip I'm talking about.

3407
02:36:20.480 --> 02:36:21.480
Yeah, it was Tim Ferriss.

3408
02:36:21.480 --> 02:36:23.440
Everyone says marriage should be 50-50.

3409
02:36:23.440 --> 02:36:25.240
It's the biggest crock of bull should I've ever heard.

3410
02:36:25.240 --> 02:36:26.240
It's never 50-50.

3411
02:36:26.240 --> 02:36:27.240
Yeah.

3412
02:36:27.240 --> 02:36:28.240
Ever.

3413
02:36:28.240 --> 02:36:30.760
And so what we do is we quantify where we are.

3414
02:36:30.760 --> 02:36:37.320
So if Steve comes home and he'll be like, I got 20, just energy, just energy, investment,

3415
02:36:37.320 --> 02:36:40.360
kindness, patience, I'm out of 20.

3416
02:36:40.360 --> 02:36:45.120
And I'll be like, I'll cover you, I got your brother, like, I'll pull the 80.

3417
02:36:45.120 --> 02:36:49.680
Sometimes we come home, which we have done a lot, my mom has been sick and I'll say, I've

3418
02:36:49.680 --> 02:36:54.960
got 10 and Steve, like two days ago said, I'm riding a solid 25.

3419
02:36:54.960 --> 02:37:00.200
So we know that we have to sit down at the table any time we have less than a hundred combined

3420
02:37:00.200 --> 02:37:02.200
and figure out a plan of kindness toward each other.

3421
02:37:02.200 --> 02:37:03.200
Oh, I love that.

3422
02:37:03.200 --> 02:37:07.040
Because the thing is marriage is not something that's 50-50.

3423
02:37:07.040 --> 02:37:12.400
A partnership works when you can carry their 20 or they can carry your 20.

3424
02:37:12.400 --> 02:37:17.160
And that when you both just have 20, you have a plan where you don't hurt each other.

3425
02:37:17.160 --> 02:37:18.160
So good.

3426
02:37:18.160 --> 02:37:19.560
That's the mistake I've made multiple times.

3427
02:37:19.560 --> 02:37:21.760
Oh, it's a big problem with 10.

3428
02:37:21.760 --> 02:37:23.000
Some mistake we make every day.

3429
02:37:23.000 --> 02:37:24.000
Yeah.

3430
02:37:24.000 --> 02:37:28.800
I mean, for me and Sierra and I is usually, if we're in a part of an argument, typically

3431
02:37:28.800 --> 02:37:35.160
arguments in pretty quickly, but the ones that go long, it's sometimes, you know, I just

3432
02:37:35.160 --> 02:37:36.160
don't feel like it.

3433
02:37:36.160 --> 02:37:39.000
You know, I could give an apology, you could give an apology, and so I just don't feel

3434
02:37:39.000 --> 02:37:40.520
like, I don't feel like being sorry right now.

3435
02:37:40.520 --> 02:37:41.520
I will later.

3436
02:37:41.520 --> 02:37:47.680
But in the moment, I'm just, I just got this stuff in me and I'm not ready yet.

3437
02:37:47.680 --> 02:37:52.000
And so what happens for me and what's been so helpful is when I'm aggravated at that

3438
02:37:52.000 --> 02:37:57.800
edge and I don't want to give a thing is to say, my battery's in the red.

3439
02:37:57.800 --> 02:38:03.400
Like we say in the red because of iPhone, it's like, I'm, once I know I'm in that place,

3440
02:38:03.400 --> 02:38:08.120
we know to time out because it's, or else you'd be two hours in and you're still, now

3441
02:38:08.120 --> 02:38:11.880
you've just said, wait, worst things, you know, that you're going to apologize for.

3442
02:38:11.880 --> 02:38:16.680
And so often when the quicker you can get to a timeout, like if you want to know how

3443
02:38:16.680 --> 02:38:23.880
well a relationship communicates, look how often they take timeouts because timeouts are,

3444
02:38:23.880 --> 02:38:33.160
I mean, they're the amount of value you get and just appause, and then even five minutes

3445
02:38:33.160 --> 02:38:37.840
coming back to it, you have a different, like, okay, here we go, like a fresh, fresh start.

3446
02:38:37.840 --> 02:38:44.840
Like, why would you leave somebody on the field for three hours and never give them a rest?

3447
02:38:44.840 --> 02:38:49.480
And you think I can't, we do it physically, but I'm not going to do it mentally.

3448
02:38:49.480 --> 02:38:59.600
Like if you, if you want to know the key to the relationship, the metric that is the

3449
02:38:59.600 --> 02:39:07.480
most valuable key to a relationship is that the measure, the quality of the conversation

3450
02:39:07.480 --> 02:39:10.440
is equal to the quality of the relationship.

3451
02:39:10.440 --> 02:39:16.480
Said differently, the quality of the relationship is equal to the quality of the communication.

3452
02:39:16.480 --> 02:39:21.960
You look at all these couples that are divorcing, okay?

3453
02:39:21.960 --> 02:39:30.280
Are the couples that are in bad states, it's because they were okay and the positive,

3454
02:39:30.280 --> 02:39:33.520
but they don't know how to deal with the negative.

3455
02:39:33.520 --> 02:39:39.320
So it's the measure of not just, can we talk about the happy stuff, the, if you talk,

3456
02:39:39.320 --> 02:39:43.680
I talk to these elderly couples have been married for 50 years and I say, what's your

3457
02:39:43.680 --> 02:39:44.680
secret?

3458
02:39:44.680 --> 02:39:49.960
It's not, can you be happy and not happy, it's, can you, how long can you sit with the

3459
02:39:49.960 --> 02:39:50.960
hard?

3460
02:39:50.960 --> 02:39:56.680
How long can you be in the, in the sad times, because those are going to happen and I see

3461
02:39:56.680 --> 02:40:02.120
that so many with the people, so many people who communicate with me are message and they're

3462
02:40:02.120 --> 02:40:08.800
going through divorce or they have been divorced and you realize it, it's not often that they

3463
02:40:08.800 --> 02:40:16.240
fill out a love, they fill out a communication, they, they stop talking to each other.

3464
02:40:16.240 --> 02:40:20.000
This is, I think, one of the great myths we're sold when we get into our first relationship

3465
02:40:20.000 --> 02:40:24.880
is we think that the sign of a good relationship is a lack of conflict, but if you've ever been

3466
02:40:24.880 --> 02:40:29.280
in a long relationship, I think over time you start to figure that it's not the amount

3467
02:40:29.280 --> 02:40:33.480
of conflict, it's like, it's, it's how one manages the conflict.

3468
02:40:33.480 --> 02:40:37.040
I read a quote which I've never forgotten which said, you can predict the long term health

3469
02:40:37.040 --> 02:40:43.320
of a relationship by whether each cut heals to 101% or 99%, I, does your conflict make

3470
02:40:43.320 --> 02:40:44.320
you stronger?

3471
02:40:44.320 --> 02:40:45.320
Yeah.

3472
02:40:45.320 --> 02:40:47.680
And if I look back through the conflict that I've had with like my partner that I've been

3473
02:40:47.680 --> 02:40:53.320
with a long time now, I go, it has actually deepened the roots.

3474
02:40:53.320 --> 02:40:54.800
Yeah, it has to.

3475
02:40:54.800 --> 02:41:00.600
Like it's been productive conflict, you know, which has made us stronger and that, and

3476
02:41:00.600 --> 02:41:05.760
that in part is because of many of the things that you talk about, which is like trying

3477
02:41:05.760 --> 02:41:07.040
not to win every argument.

3478
02:41:07.040 --> 02:41:08.040
Right.

3479
02:41:08.040 --> 02:41:09.040
Other things in your book.

3480
02:41:09.040 --> 02:41:10.040
Yeah.

3481
02:41:10.040 --> 02:41:13.320
Well, that's, Sierra, that's what Sierra talks about it either way, it's good.

3482
02:41:13.320 --> 02:41:18.680
Like it's the conflict, you want conflict in your relationship for the growth.

3483
02:41:18.680 --> 02:41:22.400
It is rare that you can have individual growth alone.

3484
02:41:22.400 --> 02:41:23.400
It has to be relational.

3485
02:41:23.400 --> 02:41:24.400
100%.

3486
02:41:24.400 --> 02:41:25.720
It has to be with other people.

3487
02:41:25.720 --> 02:41:32.040
I can read a book on how to do something, but until I do it, it's a totally different

3488
02:41:32.040 --> 02:41:33.040
game.

3489
02:41:33.520 --> 02:41:39.800
I learn relationally with things and with other people in places, but for sure a relationship.

3490
02:41:39.800 --> 02:41:42.840
I mean, there's just no, there's no other way to go around it.

3491
02:41:42.840 --> 02:41:46.800
You have to have the conflict if you want to be, if you want to be better.

3492
02:41:46.800 --> 02:41:54.000
And I've seen so many times where the people, they, they send their hands, they don't know

3493
02:41:54.000 --> 02:42:01.200
how to talk to one another because they gave up on trying to repair, but they're all in

3494
02:42:01.200 --> 02:42:02.880
on trying to blame.

3495
02:42:02.880 --> 02:42:09.320
And so when you are trying to kind of undo what has to be done, that makes it all the more

3496
02:42:09.320 --> 02:42:14.960
difficult because it's just so many years where there could have been repair, but there,

3497
02:42:14.960 --> 02:42:18.240
there hasn't been and then turn that really hurts the relationship.

3498
02:42:18.240 --> 02:42:26.120
I read a recent study that the biggest predictor of the child's well-being within the parental

3499
02:42:26.120 --> 02:42:30.160
relationship is not whether they were married or divorced.

3500
02:42:30.160 --> 02:42:35.840
It was how they deal with conflict, I mean, because how many people have had parents

3501
02:42:35.840 --> 02:42:38.160
that are still together, but fight terribly.

3502
02:42:38.160 --> 02:42:39.160
Yeah, I'm a god to you.

3503
02:42:39.160 --> 02:42:42.880
And in fact, should probably maybe not be together.

3504
02:42:42.880 --> 02:42:48.520
Or those that they're divorced, but communicate great.

3505
02:42:48.520 --> 02:42:52.360
And they never put their child in the middle of it and didn't use the child as a male

3506
02:42:52.360 --> 02:42:54.440
carrier between the two.

3507
02:42:54.440 --> 02:43:00.760
To be able to do that is, I mean, you get to change the whole trajectory of a child's

3508
02:43:00.760 --> 02:43:01.760
life.

3509
02:43:01.760 --> 02:43:03.440
At some point we have to forgive our parents, right?

3510
02:43:03.440 --> 02:43:05.720
Yeah, that's the truth.

3511
02:43:05.720 --> 02:43:09.720
Like you said, like they were kids too raised by parents then.

3512
02:43:09.720 --> 02:43:13.920
This is their first time still doing it.

3513
02:43:13.920 --> 02:43:19.400
You have a workbook on its way in March 10th called The Next Conversation Workbook.

3514
02:43:19.400 --> 02:43:22.840
Practice exercises, arguing less and talking more, which really takes everything that you

3515
02:43:22.840 --> 02:43:27.440
wrote about and turns it into an actionable blueprint framework for people that really

3516
02:43:27.440 --> 02:43:30.920
want to embed these habits into their lives.

3517
02:43:30.920 --> 02:43:31.920
I'm going to link that below.

3518
02:43:31.920 --> 02:43:32.920
Is that available for pre-order?

3519
02:43:32.920 --> 02:43:33.920
Will it be?

3520
02:43:33.920 --> 02:43:34.920
Yeah, it will be a pre-order link.

3521
02:43:34.920 --> 02:43:35.920
So we'll put that in the description below.

3522
02:43:35.920 --> 02:43:38.120
You're also working on some AI stuff, which I think is interesting.

3523
02:43:38.120 --> 02:43:39.120
Yeah, thank you.

3524
02:43:39.120 --> 02:43:43.520
So I'm about to release an AI of just my content.

3525
02:43:43.520 --> 02:43:49.640
So it has my book, it has my podcast, it has my, any of my social clips, it has it all.

3526
02:43:49.640 --> 02:43:55.640
And so it's a small language model to where everybody can have their own personal communication

3527
02:43:55.640 --> 02:43:59.240
expert and a 24 or 7 kind of thing, it's what they have on it.

3528
02:43:59.240 --> 02:44:04.680
But where people get the practice, so what I love about it the most is, let's say you

3529
02:44:04.680 --> 02:44:09.440
say, I'm about to go into a important meeting and I want to sound really confident.

3530
02:44:09.440 --> 02:44:10.440
What can I do?

3531
02:44:10.440 --> 02:44:16.160
Or I'm about to have my spouse isn't listening or really upset what he had to do.

3532
02:44:16.160 --> 02:44:21.680
You apply those right in that moment and gives you a different way of respecting, a different

3533
02:44:21.680 --> 02:44:28.840
way of seeing things from a different view or what I definitely, what I've, like is

3534
02:44:28.840 --> 02:44:35.360
to tell it to be a boss, be my boss who's really mean and arrogant and let's do an exercise

3535
02:44:35.360 --> 02:44:40.760
of how to respond to this situation and you test, is that response going to be the best

3536
02:44:40.760 --> 02:44:47.040
response and allow it to kind of have a different way of practicing things that maybe you need

3537
02:44:47.040 --> 02:44:49.760
to be ready for because some people need to be ready for the hard response.

3538
02:44:49.760 --> 02:44:51.560
I'll link that below too.

3539
02:44:51.560 --> 02:44:52.560
Yeah.

3540
02:44:52.560 --> 02:44:54.360
You can have a play with that and sign up.

3541
02:44:54.360 --> 02:44:55.360
I'm excited.

3542
02:44:55.360 --> 02:44:58.240
We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next.

3543
02:44:58.240 --> 02:45:02.400
Question left for you is, who are you most dying to meet and why?

3544
02:45:02.400 --> 02:45:06.240
Oh, that's a great one.

3545
02:45:07.240 --> 02:45:14.240
The person I would love to meet right now is probably Brunei Brown.

3546
02:45:14.240 --> 02:45:15.240
Oh, really?

3547
02:45:15.240 --> 02:45:17.040
It's the fact that you brought her up.

3548
02:45:17.040 --> 02:45:23.440
The reason why is because I know that she's been in this space a long time and I feel

3549
02:45:23.440 --> 02:45:31.360
that when she shares stuff, it's very genuine, like there's no guessing that she's real.

3550
02:45:31.360 --> 02:45:35.120
She's about as real and raw as authentic as you can get.

3551
02:45:35.120 --> 02:45:40.480
She's also a long corn, Texas long corn fan, which I'm a fan of, but I feel like when

3552
02:45:40.480 --> 02:45:47.960
this is just me personally, I kind of got pushed into this field and you always look for

3553
02:45:47.960 --> 02:45:53.640
people that are your own anchors in life of who you'd want to be a mentor kind of thing.

3554
02:45:53.640 --> 02:46:00.120
And that's somebody who's, I feel like has been in the world and knows and thinks and

3555
02:46:00.120 --> 02:46:05.240
has just some credible knowledge that's helped a lot of people.

3556
02:46:05.240 --> 02:46:06.480
She's most certainly authentic.

3557
02:46:06.480 --> 02:46:07.480
She's incredible.

3558
02:46:07.480 --> 02:46:08.480
Yeah.

3559
02:46:08.480 --> 02:46:12.360
Well, I, listen, if people haven't bought your book, which is almost nobody, but if there

3560
02:46:12.360 --> 02:46:15.360
are still some people out there that haven't bought this book, I highly recommend it.

3561
02:46:15.360 --> 02:46:21.360
I think I included it in my WH Smith collection as well in the UK, which is such a smash

3562
02:46:21.360 --> 02:46:23.400
hit success.

3563
02:46:23.400 --> 02:46:24.880
It's a success on two dimensions.

3564
02:46:24.880 --> 02:46:26.360
It's sales and it's impact.

3565
02:46:26.360 --> 02:46:27.360
Thank you.

3566
02:46:27.960 --> 02:46:32.080
It's also incredibly accessible, so it's not like a complicated science book and it's

3567
02:46:32.080 --> 02:46:36.360
written for normal people that are going through very real, relatable, normal problems.

3568
02:46:36.360 --> 02:46:38.320
And I think that's why it's been so successful.

3569
02:46:38.320 --> 02:46:42.360
I think you approach these challenges from a very real place.

3570
02:46:42.360 --> 02:46:47.520
And maybe that's in part why it's been so wonderfully received and so relatable is

3571
02:46:47.520 --> 02:46:53.520
because, you know, your trial attorney, that's bringing this stuff to the masses, but

3572
02:46:53.520 --> 02:46:58.520
you're not like a PhD scholar who might have thrown up the drawbridge because they spent

3573
02:46:58.520 --> 02:47:00.360
all their life in academia.

3574
02:47:00.360 --> 02:47:04.840
And I think the way that you communicate is so relatable and resonant that it's no wonder

3575
02:47:04.840 --> 02:47:08.960
that you've been on an absolutely unbelievable terror of the last couple of years.

3576
02:47:08.960 --> 02:47:09.960
It's phenomenal.

3577
02:47:09.960 --> 02:47:11.560
They're crazy, crazy, incredible.

3578
02:47:11.560 --> 02:47:12.560
So congratulations.

3579
02:47:12.560 --> 02:47:16.320
And thank you for all the people that you've given a little bit of like to, a little bit

3580
02:47:16.320 --> 02:47:21.680
of even powered them with information so that they can live the life that they deserve

3581
02:47:21.680 --> 02:47:22.680
to live.

3582
02:47:22.680 --> 02:47:23.680
I appreciate it.

3583
02:47:23.680 --> 02:47:24.680
Thank you.

3584
02:47:24.680 --> 02:47:33.120
If there's anything we need, it is connection, especially in the world we're living in today.

3585
02:47:33.120 --> 02:47:37.720
And that is exactly why we created these conversation cards because on this show, when I sit here

3586
02:47:37.720 --> 02:47:42.880
with my guest and have those deep, intimate conversations, this remarkable thing happens

3587
02:47:42.880 --> 02:47:43.880
time and time again.

3588
02:47:43.880 --> 02:47:46.520
We feel deeply connected to each other.

3589
02:47:46.520 --> 02:47:50.080
At the end of every episode, the guest I'm interviewing leaves a question for the next

3590
02:47:50.080 --> 02:47:55.520
guest and we've turned them into these conversation cards and we've added these twist cards to make

3591
02:47:55.520 --> 02:47:57.560
your conversations even more interesting.

3592
02:47:57.560 --> 02:48:01.280
And there are so many more twists along the way with the conversation cards.

3593
02:48:01.280 --> 02:48:04.800
This is the brand new edition and for the first time ever, I've added to the pack this

3594
02:48:04.800 --> 02:48:08.840
gold card, which is an exclusive question from me.

3595
02:48:08.840 --> 02:48:13.720
But I'm only putting the gold cards in the first run of conversation cards.

3596
02:48:13.720 --> 02:48:17.240
So get yours now before the limited edition gold cards are all gone.

3597
02:48:17.240 --> 02:48:18.480
Head to the link in the description below.