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Studies show that if you are flossing you can reduce your risk of dementia by nearly half,

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which is quite impressive.

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So I started to research the brain much more and it made me realise this link with the brain

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and the gut is absolutely crucial and how that influences many things in our brain,

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for example, things like depression, new changes for teeth and energy.

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But for 40 years we've been going down the wrong path, we've got so distracted by

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treating the brain as something so different to the rest of the body.

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So what do we do about it if we want to have optimally healthy brains?

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So Professor Tim Specter is one of the top 100 most cited scientists worldwide

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and he's back to reveal the critical role our gut plays with our physical and mental health,

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our cognition and the prevention of chronic disease.

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We can dramatically improve our lives and our health just by making the right food choices

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and I've got eight rules for gut health which work for all health.

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So first thing pivot your protein then there's quality not calories.

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The whole idea of assessing food by calories is wrong.

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Calorie restricted darts have been shown for the vast majority of people not to work,

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your hunger signals go up and hunger is the main driver of obesity and we'll get into the other

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rules and what about coffee?

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So drinking between two and five cups of coffee reduces your risk of heart disease by about 25%.

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And then what do you think of almonds?

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So there's lots of studies showing good for your cognition and mood

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and what about your views on geography ones like a Zempack?

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I think from a public health perspective they're going to transform medicine

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and we ought to be taking it much more seriously but I've got two real worries about them.

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My first worry is that...

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Just give me 30 seconds of your time.

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Two things I wanted to say.

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The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show

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week after week means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never

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had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place.

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But secondly it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started.

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And if you enjoy what we do here please join the 24% of people that listen to this broadcast

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regularly and follow us on this app.

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Here's a promise I'm going to make to you.

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I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future.

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We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to

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and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.

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Thank you.

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Professor Tim Specter.

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Who is this lovely lady and how does she tie into the work you're focused on right now?

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That's my lovely mum June who is still with us age 93.

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But for the last seven years has been in a home in London

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after suffering a stroke and then developing dementia.

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And so yeah that's changed some of my views on life and she was really pro-Euthanasia

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and signed every paper possible that if this ever happened to her you know she would be

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out to enter life but unfortunately that didn't come true and under UK law it's not possible to

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to help her in that because she lost capability and mobility very early.

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So she's still there but she doesn't no longer recognises me and it's a reminder of

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you know our potential future life and how so many so many people are going to end up with dementia.

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That wasn't the case 50 years ago if I can do something to reverse this epidemic of dementia

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then that's really motivating for me and in a way one reason why I've started to research the

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brain much more than I've done in the past. So is dementia increasing or is it that we know of

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it more now so we're better at diagnosing it? It's increasing for a number of reasons so some of

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it is the age demographics so we're living longer but we're not living healthier so our health

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span hasn't really increased but our lifespan has we're good at keeping elderly people alive longer

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that's definitely true but there's also stats to show that it is increasing even when you take

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that into account so that more people are developing dementia than ever before even when you account

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for the demographics and those other changes so it is a major worry and I think it's one of the

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the major fears that all of us have you know obviously you've got cancer is one fear but I think

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the other really bad one is ending up with dementia because nearly everyone knows somebody

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with dementia. Did this inspire you to go get your own brain scan? Yes I'd had as you know problems

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with my brain before I had a mini stroke back in 2011 and never really worked out the causes of that

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I knew I had some white spots in my brain I wanted to see if they were still there if there

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any signs of that and at the same time I wanted to get a check up to see was I likely to end up

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like my mother or not and did I have the genetic form of the disease? Was it a straightforward

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Alzheimer's? Was it more the vascular type that my mother had? Well probably has and so yeah

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partly it was motivated out of my medical curiosity and partly for self-interest and what did you find?

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I went to this specialized clinic in London that does these dementia screens so I know if I had

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the risk genes for Alzheimer's which luckily I don't but I do have bad genes for diabetes and

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heart disease which predispose you to the vascular side of things what's vascular dementia?

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There's several types of dementia but the two main ones are Alzheimer's where you get these protein

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folds in the brain you get local inflammation these protein tangles and that then causes these

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damage to the bits of the brain that's a very specific type of dementia then you get more generalized

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dementia which is usually called vascular dementia where you're just getting clogging up of the

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arteries supplying the brain just like you do in the heart and that knocks off other bits of the

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brain in a slightly more random way than happens without time as slightly less predictable but that

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accounts for about a third of all dementia is this vascular time. I'm predispose because after this

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weird episode in 2011 my blood pressure went up so anyone with high blood pressure generally has

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slightly stiffer arteries than most people and that impacts the arteries in your brain so you

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are slightly more at risk and with these diabetes genes that I've got thanks to my grandmother

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I am more at risk of vascular dementia and so what I wanted to do was learn about that in order to

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optimize all the things I could do to postpone it or prevent it as much as possible.

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Over the last five years or so your interest in the brain has increased.

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What is the variance in your views of the brain now versus five years ago before you started

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doing research and getting interested in it? I think I saw the brain as a rather distinct organ

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that was the domain of psychiatry and perhaps gerontologists who look at dementia that wasn't really

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part of the major picture and certainly wasn't within my domain of expertise. I think I still believe

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in this the cartesian view of the difference between the mind and the brain, mind and the body

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that these two separate entities and you've got this barrier between them, this blood brain barrier

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that was really like an iron curtain. So I was interested in it but I didn't realize this huge

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connection I've now discovered really that has really excited me and I think the thing that

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triggered it was some of our own experiments which happened a bit by chance. So when we started

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Zoe we did a number of trials and we gave our participants apps so they could report how they felt.

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In every study we did we started getting back these incredible results of people saying when they

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when they started the Zoe diet for example the first thing they noticed was their mood and energy

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improved and their hunger got less and that was before any blood changes before any gut changes

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and so initially we slightly discounted it but it happened in every study we did we looked

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to the menopause and again the most dramatic change when people were improving their gut health

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through food with menopause of symptoms was on mood and energy because originally I'm a rheumatologist

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and was really interested in inflammation I'd never put that connection between what was inflammation

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in the body and in your joints with what was going on in your brain and suddenly the latest science

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when I'm going away doing my reading is making it all so much clearer it's it's really become

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you know this this I knew idea of things like depression things like mood changes things like

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fatigue and energy which I hadn't rethought about as in a way a malfunction of the brain

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responding the wrong way to signals from the rest of the body but it suddenly all comes into focus

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about how holistic the whole system is and how really the brain is just another organ

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and this link with the gut is absolutely crucial because that's where it gets most of its

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information from you know we have this vagus nerve that goes from our gut to our brain but the

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longest nerve in the body and 80% of the signals go gut to brain only 20% go brain to gut

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so all these things together have just made me realize how important what going into our gut is

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our diet is and how that influences many things in our brain that I didn't put together before

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and I don't think most most of the medical world have put together before and it we've all put

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the brain on a pedestal I should say you know we think it's this this unique thing that's driving

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our bodies but actually it's not it's just responding to them just like any other organ

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it made me reflect on the days that I've had like good and bad moods and how

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how much it's linked to my diet in the preceding couple of days like how I feel if I sleep is such a

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big exacerbating factor in how I feel but if I'm slept and I still don't feel good it's typically

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linked I think to something I've been eating or something I've eaten very recently maybe in

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the last 24 hours so when you talk about how there's this holistic picture and how my brain might be

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I think I can't remember the words you used but it sounded like you said my brain is receiving

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signals from other parts of my body and it's kind of malfunctioning based on the signals which is

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causing depression anxiety bad moods whatever that I think is really interesting because people think

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of mood is a separate thing we don't think of mood connected to my gut no it's it's your own fault

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you're in a bad mood why are you in a bad mood something happened yeah externally so someone cut

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you off in traffic or whatever it might be all these studies you know we've got four studies now

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where we're changing people's diets and they're going they've been on generally bad diets we've

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moved into good diets that mood and any particular energy levels the first thing they notice they're

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improving and they never linked just like you their mood and energy levels with things like

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diet it was just inherent they thought oh it's just because I'm you know my life's shit or whatever

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it is an extreme example is some families we've been working with doing a channel four series

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of the moment called what not to eat and we visit four families and they're terrible diets

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and we transform them give them a gut-friendly makeover diet look at them after six weeks

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the first thing they all know is that their mood and energy is dramatically increased

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they were napping all the time they were asleep all the time during the day what were they eating

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crap food highly processed crap food and snacking late at night bars of chocolate you know

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sodas chicken nuggets hot noodles rubbish food right so these were more worse than your average but

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still there's millions of people like that doing this and they had no clue that it was linked

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to them feeling terrible and tired all the time and again the first thing that it improved

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was what was going on in their brains and they suddenly felt alert again and once people

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realize this is connection then in a way you'd have this feedback loop to say okay I'm not going

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to eat this shit food you know because I know it's making me feel so sick but until you make that

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connection you're not going to know you'll just be in this constant state saying well you know

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I'm just overweight that's why I'm tired or I'm not exercising that's why I'm tired

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there's a bit of a vicious cycle here with eating something bad then being low energy and sleeping

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all day not feeling good so you eat something bad and the cycle continues because if I don't feel

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good I probably want to eat a chocolate bar in our Zoe stays we found the people who had a bad night

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sleep desperately craved some sugary crap in the morning right it's the first you don't go for a

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healthy breakfast it's like there's some little evil thing in your brain saying okay

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I need a quick fix I don't care about the rest of the day just get me through the next hour

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to know whether I had someone posit on my podcast that um that was because your body's basically

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under a form of stress so from an evolutionary perspective if you're waking up in the middle of

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the night for some reason or you weren't sleeping properly it might be because you were under threat

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so your brain wants energy so there's a lot of studies now that stress which we thought of as a

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sort of external psychological event is actually a physiological one and is actually driving

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inflammation it's directly affecting your immune system which is then sending these signals to

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your brain to change your behavior and this I think is very much the heart of what seems to be

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happening in depression what I've been finding out is that it's detecting a change in immune

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system it's switching on to the stress mode and the stress mode then triggers these different

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behaviors in your brain and very often it's not you know real stress I mean most of the stress as we

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get it every day are not like our ancestors had we're not being chased by wild animals or

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being burnt out of our village you know so the and what really interested me was this whole link

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between what happens when you have a vaccination during Zoe we looked at a million people's responses

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to the if you remember the the Pfizer and vaccine and the SK vaccine and what was really interesting

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was that people were actually depressed during that time so you had about 24 hours of depression

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which was mimicking a more constant threat and this suddenly brought home this idea that you

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can trigger depression through a little shift in your immune system there's really a growing theory

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about people who have long-term depression is that these their immune changes are switched on

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so that they're getting the equivalent of this constant tickling of the immune system by a vaccine

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so that to me is it was was a really important thing because I have vaccines I have regular

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vaccines and big believer in vaccines but they do make you feel a little bit down that makes sense

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because your blood tests will show a spike in your proteins for inflammation your immune systems

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kicking in that sends signals to your brain your brain says okay I looks like I've got an illness

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coming here that illness behavior in some people then gets carried on for months or years

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and this is now developing this whole new theory of why people are depressed which isn't the old

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theory of it's just due to a chemical imbalance it's actually your body responding abnormally to

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a normal response it's it thinks it's under attack your brain thinks it's under attack it should

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then shut down and protect you this I find fascinating that we're now linking so much to the

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immune system and it's the immune basis of things of mental and brain diseases is becoming

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incredibly important I'm sure you've talked on the podcast a lot about inflammation and the role

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of controlling the immune system because if your immune system's out of control you inflammation

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levels are high your body can't repair itself so aging happens faster in the brain all of these

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things are pointing to inflammation being crucial to everything but particularly in all aspects of

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brain health and when I went and looked you can really find that the immune system has a role in

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every brain disease they've ever looked at and yet we've missed it because we've been

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sub-sessed with new you know the way the ProZac works by just being about serotonin or dopamine

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and for 40 years we've been going down the wrong path and missing this holistic view that

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actually it's it's about inflammation paired with metabolism because the other

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big player here is and the reason a lot of people get dementia is blood sugar is not well controlled

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and the the energy supply to the brain is not well controlled so those two things for me have

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transformed my view of of brain health and I used to study genetics as you know and it was always

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interesting that when we looked at twins which were usually very similar for most things when we

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looked at brain diseases there was very little similarity in the twins so the genetic

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command was always quite small apart from a few diseases most of them were really low level

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what we call heritability and there was a massive study in Sweden they looked at several

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million sibling pairs and looked at all their mental health or brain diseases I prefer to call them

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and there was no gene that really came out even in several million people that explained

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these disease other than a general tendency to get any type of brain disease so they called you

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this like factor p if you had this general susceptibility you could get any disease but that

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could be mania depression bipolar ADHD it could be Alzheimer's it could be schizophrenia which suddenly

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changes your whole view of these diseases we've said these are individual disease that should always

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be looked at separately and if you start thinking of this is the brain as an organ just like anything

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else like it was the liver it's okay we talk about liver disease you know how do you prevent liver

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disease we never talk about that in brain disease we just say okay you got to talk about manic

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depression differently to ADHD or personality disorder or epilepsy or whatever it is but it turns

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out there not only have that similar genes but really similar risk factors as well I've heard you say

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that you think Parkinson's disease starts in the gut as inflammation in the gut yeah that's a great

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example of how my view of these diseases changing there's really good epidemiology data now

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what's from the epidemiology data epidemiology data is data in large populations

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so you study the cause of disease by studying populations that's essentially what epidemiology is

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and what these studies have shown is that if you follow susceptible people

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and find out who at the end ended up with Parkinson's disease you will see that about 90% of

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people who end up with Parkinson's had some gut problems 10 years before and you might say okay well

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might not be related might be two separate things but they've actually found the same protein

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changes in the brains and people with Parkinson's disease this particular protein that gets misfolded

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it's a bit of common to out some but it's separate a separate type of protein

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alpha sineucleon and it gets folded and you get this characteristic thing you can see

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are post mortem called a Louis body but it's the protein folding that's important and if you look

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in the gut not only do these people have constipation and bloating problems 10 years before

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a really sluggish intestine but they have the same proteins that are misfolded that you can find

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in their gut and they think that it takes 10 years for these proteins to go slowly up the vagus

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nerve into the brain and then it causes the problem there so this is the latest theory behind

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Parkinson's disease that it actually starts in the gut and it's related to inflammation in the

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gut so these proteins start folding when the gut is not happy which means that you could potentially

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prevent Parkinson's disease by a gut-friendly diet it looks like it's the evidence is building

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that you know that's going to be pretty concrete soon if that's true then you may think what other

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diseases might have that origin there that we really don't understand what about multiple sclerosis

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that might happen there first and it really starts to bring you know this obscure of these brain

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disease back into the domain of the rest of the body and what's going on there and these metabolic

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problems you know diabetes is the number one risk factor for so many of these conditions as well

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so it like if you've got time to diabetes you're like four times as molecular to have a brain disease

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not only depression but also bipolar schizophrenia epilepsy all of these ones so clearly

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they're linked they're this what goes on in your body what you're eating what your immune system

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is doing has this amazing knock on effect so what do we do about it what does the average person

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do about it you know because the average you know what the average diet looks like in the western

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world if we want to have optimally healthy brains and avoid dementia Parkinson's and some of these

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disorders that are linked to the gut what is what is the most important thing the listener right

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now should be thinking about and doing well I like to think we've got I've got a list that's

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getting longer but it's got now eight rules for gut health which pretty much work

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for all health because we to treat the brain it's no really different to treating the rest of the

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your body if you treat that well you're going to be fine so first thing is to be mindful of what

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you're eating don't just put any old shit in your mouth you know I mean stop for a bit and say

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is this what's in it is it any good for me how's it going to make me feel you mean checking labels

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and stuff checking labels or even just taking a second to think you know gosh don't just blindly

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eat in front of the TV without thinking what you're eating as we most of us do second and probably

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the key thing is I think is to eat a diversity of plants 30 plants a week these 30 plants

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give you the diversity of chemicals to access fertilizers for as getting as many good bugs as you

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can get into your system how can you explain that to someone that doesn't know much about the gut

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when I'm talking about your gut I'm talking about gut microbes and there are 40 to a hundred

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trillion of these guys in your main you know large intestine that are many pharmacies and

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there we have thousands of different species all of which highly selected to eat only certain foods

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there's one that only likes coffee for example called Lawson a Bacter a bug that only likes coffee in

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my belly it's just waiting for you to drink coffee and when a drink coffee what happens

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it has a party has sex has babies multipliers and then produces certain chemicals in response

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by breaking down that coffee into other ingredients which might then help your immune system and

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in some way explain why coffee is good for your heart so you got to imagine that you've got

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lots of bugs like that that are highly specific waiting for you to have

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uh not eat coffee but you know maybe it's seaweed or maybe uh it's beobab or maybe it's things

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you don't often have so that we can expand our list of good bugs so if I stop eating a particular

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food like coffee if I stop having coffee will that bug guy it probably goes down to various

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low levels because actually it was interesting is even if you stop drinking coffee you're surrounded

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by coffee drinkers and they they're droplets of saliva and kisses and greetings mean that you'll

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be getting some of that either those bugs themselves or you'll be getting some bits of coffee in the air

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coffee aroma okay so the bugs go up and down in population yes so even in non-coffee drinkers we do

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see tiny amounts of this this loss in a backter um but in countries that don't drink coffee at

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all there are a few African countries for example it doesn't exactly in tribes you don't see it at all

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so it that's but I think it's the important to imagine you're it's a bit like having a rare animal

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you know you you've got a feed in your zoo you don't want to give them all the same food you've

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got to give them this diversity so that all the rare animals can get out there and we know that the

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more good bugs you've got the better your immune system the more you dampen inflammation the more

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you can prevent all these problems that we're seeing so our aim is to build up the good bugs and

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the more you build them up they squash out the bad bugs the ones that like eating the burgers and the

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the the bad food and the and the terrible quality fats and the artificial substances so

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so you're squashing them out by starving them and you do that by feeding them properly so that's

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the that's the concept if that makes sense and on that point of coffee doesn't it restrict blood flow

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to your brain no not as far as I know oh really um I'm talking I know about coffee at

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the epidemiological level so there've been multiple studies like I was saying I mean coffee drinkers

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non coffee drinkers sing what happens to them 20 30 years later and drinking between two and five

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cups of coffee reduces your risk of heart disease by about 25 percent so there may be other studies

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showing it does something to your brain but generally everything I've seen is beneficial I've not

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seen anything negative although there are some people who react to caffeine badly so there's always

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a personalized element to it sleep disruption and stuff yes so you might be a metabolizer it doesn't

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metabolize quickly in you so that caffeine is hanging around longer so they're the only

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downsides to it for some people can you make him more anxious I think can make some people more

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anxious yes and that's that's why things like mature are better than coffee because they have

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an extra chemical in there that can calm you down so like anything it's any food it's all personalized

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and so when we talk about epidemiology we're talking about the average person

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doesn't mean there aren't aren't exceptions so I'm not saying to everybody in the world is to have coffee

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but coffee used to be demonized as something that would give you heart attacks and arrhythmias

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and in fact the opposite is true epidemiological speed you can actually you get less

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heart abnormalities arrhythmias when you drink coffee for reasons we still don't understand

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so the first point of the eight was mind being mindful about what you eat second was

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eat 30 different plants and that's that was the basis of our our Zoe product the daily 30 which

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has 34 mainly freeze dried our whole plants in it and we've recently added some more so we added

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some seaweed some algae and some kombucha in there so they're rare ingredients we got seven

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different types of mushroom that you wouldn't normally have it's worth me saying that I'm an

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investor in Zoe and let me take this out and you sprinkle it on top of your food typically

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yes you add it to food and it's so it's it's different to most of the other sort of supplements you

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might see it's not instead of food it looks more like food than most of the common supplements out

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there that look like green powders we did a big trial of this with about three hundred and forty

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people comparing it to a probiotic and a a dummy one and over six weeks you get really quite

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dramatic improvements in your gut microbes with with eating this so that you really push up the

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good bugs and squash out the bad bugs about several times more than you would get just by having

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a traditional probiotic so this fertilizer approach does seem to work and this is this is the study

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where we also showed the improvements in mood after a few days which you know surprised me because

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I wasn't even thinking about that when we we planned the study so the key reported findings in that

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study were a gut microbiome improvement an average increase of five points in there Zoe got

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microbiome school digestive system 70% of people reported improvements in overall digestive systems

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symptoms and it increased fullness by 41.5% satisfaction by 21.6% and energy by 43.3% and reduced

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hunger and desire to eat versus the meal alone about half reported increased energy and 45%

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reported improved happiness in the main study so we weren't expecting that that was my point really

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on these because we thought it would just be gut it would like okay do I get do I get the toilet

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more often is it improve my gut microbes and so it was a real bonus to see these these brain effects

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and did you do stool tests on those people to see yes the change in the bugs in their stomach over

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that period and was it six weeks it was around six weeks yeah and what did you see change in

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their their gut bugs so we've got a new scoring method for gut bugs which we published last

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month in in nature and so we used to talk about diversity and on previous podcast I think we've

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talked about diversity which is the number of different species but we've got a better way of

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looking at that now which is to take 100 most important bugs that change with diet that everybody's

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got because we're all different it's very hard to compare your your bugs with my bugs because

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we'll need share 20% so this looks at 100 common bugs that we've both got 50 good and 50 bad

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and what we want in an intervention is to see that the good bugs are associated with good

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diet and good health outcomes good blood tests are going up and the bad bugs associated with

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inflammation poor diets and bad health outcomes are going down and that's exactly what we saw

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we saw in a change in roughly 40 of these microbes with the prebiotic the daily 30 whereas with

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the probiotic which we know works from other studies we saw any change in about four or five

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of the bugs okay so was it so they both worked but the prebiotic was working better than the

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probiotic which has sort of changed my mind about what's more powerful so prebiotic being what

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and probiotic being what prebiotic is like a fertilizer for gut microbes it's there it's giving

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them food yeah so that in an indiscriminate way because we're giving a wide variety of foods

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in these 34 plants each of them has hundreds of chemicals so there's thousands of different things

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for them to feed on whereas a probiotic we used lactobacillus ramnosus which is a well-known one

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that's been studied you know hundreds of in hundreds of trials it's a live microbe that lives

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generally in foods like yogurt and things like this in a concentrated form and a capsule you give

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that and it improved the gut microbiome but much less than the so prebiotic gives them food

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probiotic actually just puts bugs in there it put bugs in there we used to think it was like a seed

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so the it was the so you know so fertilizers and maybe seeds but we now know that that bug will

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never really seed in your in your gut microbiome and so the sciences and our thinking has changed

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we think the probiotic is is really tinkling your immune system as it's going down okay so it's

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probably working higher up in the the small intestine which is further up in the gut

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where where is where is the gut yeah so most people if you ask people to point to the gut that

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they always think of their stomach yeah well that's not your stomach you see that's that's

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your their intestine so your stomach is up here I want to take away your liver if you imagine

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we've got a body here mouth food goes in there through the esophagus which is a tube that leads

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to the stomach and this is the stomach here which is highly acidic and that leads into the

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duodenum through a little valve and that is where food starts going mushed around into little balls

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and it goes into the small intestine here which is badly named because the small intestine

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is really the largest bit of the gut and it's endless coils as of guts there lots of

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crypts there's little nooks and crannies everywhere and so the surface area is really huge as

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it's several tennis courts if you laid it out just one in one human and that's because that's

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where most of the nutrients get absorbed they get extracted from the food and absorb that way

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so that all the trace elements and things we're recycling we're like a recycling factory

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and then from the small intestine it then goes into the large intestine which is also called the

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colon and that's where most of the gut microbes are so 99% of the gut microbes are in that final part

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the large intestine which is a couple of meters long and varies widely between people and

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this is the spot where fiber goes things that hasn't been digested in the early part of the

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the gut is and that's because the microbes mainly feed off fiber and so that's where they do

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the good they convert that fiber into products such as short chain fatty acids which are the

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really beneficial chemicals that are good for our immune system and it's important to realize that

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across both the small and the large intestine you've got huge amounts of nerves you've got what's

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called the enteric nervous system which is our second brain and it was actually the first brain

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to be formed so when we were little embryos we started as a little tube and the nervous system

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that formed around our intestine was actually the first bit first brain of our body and in a way we

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divert the second one on our head as a little bit of an afterthought which is quite fun way of thinking

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about it but it just shows how important the nerves are in our gut to the way we function and as we

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were talking earlier about this this connection between the two and there's also immune cells so

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70% of our immune cells are in the gut most of them in the large intestine but also in the small intestine

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so our immune system is here and a huge amount of our nervous system is here why presumably the bugs

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are all through the body they're everywhere so they're also in yeah so I should point out

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we're covered in bugs so every bit of the human body has some bugs in it the second biggest

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place where we have them is in our mouth so the oral microbiome in our saliva and in our teeth

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and our gums and that's why poor hygiene if you're not flossing properly you double the risk of

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getting dementia as well interestingly because there's a real link between microbes here that if

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they're eating plaque of other stuff that you're leaving around in your gums gets inflamed that

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creates an environment where nasty microbes that love inflammation live and for easily don't know

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they seem to pass in from from your mouth into your brain and trigger inflammation in the brain which

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then increase your risk of dementia so you're not flossing yes this is really new science showing

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that just how important these getting the right bugs in the right place and avoiding the

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ones who are in the wrong place really is why do we need these bugs why didn't evolution design us

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so that we could just do all this stuff without the need of these little workers these little bugs

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in our bodies it seems super weird to me that you know you think of the human body as being this one

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organism but actually it appears to be many millions millions millions of organisms well you've

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got a sort of human centric view of the world it seems so we evolve from microbes we are one we

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used to be one we used to be one and it turns out that most of our body is our remnants of microbes

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microbes obviously fuse to cause to cause human cells so that was the whole origin of

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of how multicellular creatures came together we the single cell microbes some of them fuse to

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to do that other state of single cells there was always this link between the single cell guys

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and their multicellular ancestors if you like and so as we co-evolved into more complicated beings

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the two are always together and it turned out that again as like as we're formed as embryos the

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gut is the first thing that this sling this tube is the first thing that comes out of the design

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system and it's designed to have microbes in it that serve a crucial purpose in training our

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immune system to recognize what's out what's harmful and what's beneficial and it's also shown

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to be crucial for our brain development but it is fascinating when we start thinking about our

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origins and think of it that you know we essentially start as microbes because also we don't

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think of our body you know we've always historically thought of you know gods creation this body

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had nothing to do with anything else we would they masters the universe and it's quite humbling to

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realize that so much of us comes from microbes and I learned something recently there was there

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also blew me away is that all ourselves have these powerhouses in them called mitochondria

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and it turns out they do much more than just supply batteries for the cell they're fighting

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inflammation they put for gene expression they're good for metabolism and it turns out the

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origin of these things is little microbes that got trapped in our bodies they are essentially

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microbes that were good at making creating energy and at some point in our distant past we fused

402
00:43:13.600 --> 00:43:21.040
our multicellular microbes that were going around doing stuff they said we could do with some more

403
00:43:21.040 --> 00:43:28.960
energy and so by chance they fused with these energy microbes and slowly and slowly became

404
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:34.240
incorporating into our bodies so that we now have these mitochondria all our bodies which whose

405
00:43:34.240 --> 00:43:40.080
ancestors are also microbes and we have them in every cell of our body yes we do and they're

406
00:43:40.160 --> 00:43:46.000
turning out to be quite crucial as well in brain health do you spend much time wondering

407
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.440
or have there been periods in your life where you've wondered about the meaning of all of this and

408
00:43:50.080 --> 00:43:55.360
why there's living organisms because it doesn't appear to be a great need for living organisms

409
00:43:56.320 --> 00:44:01.280
you know you could just have rocks and water on these planets I don't know why you need

410
00:44:02.240 --> 00:44:10.480
humans necessarily and as it relates to the contribution we make to the environment

411
00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:16.880
well I think as soon as you add life whether it's plant life I mean you're you're thinking perhaps

412
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:25.360
of animal life but you know things like lycan on rocks or one of the first forms of life

413
00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:37.440
and something that was needed to get energy nutrients from the rock and then they for some reason

414
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:45.200
just wanted to survive and I think that's the the point that life is about getting enough nutrients

415
00:44:45.200 --> 00:44:52.800
so you can keep living or pass you know your genes on to someone else is this that concept once

416
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:57.840
that was started maybe it was lycan everything else came from that and that could have just been a

417
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:04.800
chance of end so but I you know it's always humbling humbling to think that you know we've

418
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:11.760
pretty come back from some lowly point like this as we murder from a murder from rocks and water

419
00:45:12.640 --> 00:45:20.080
but yeah I philosophies not my strong suit but I just get so much pleasure from finding new facts

420
00:45:20.080 --> 00:45:25.840
they're all around us and I think it's fascinating that we've spent so long as humans looking

421
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:35.200
up at the stars whereas looking inside us at things like microbes and their origin is to me far

422
00:45:35.200 --> 00:45:43.040
more exciting and maybe explanatory as to like you know we're looking at the stars yeah we look at

423
00:45:43.040 --> 00:45:46.880
the stars so where do we come from you know where what about the big bang all this kind of stuff

424
00:45:47.680 --> 00:45:54.400
actually studying what's in ourselves and where do they come from we could learn a hell a lot

425
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:59.920
more about ourselves if you follow me you probably heard me talk about hiring more so than anything

426
00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:03.600
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427
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438
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439
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440
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445
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449
00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:03.200
so that was the second point of the eight which is eat 30 plants and so a daily 30

450
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:09.920
is a easy way to do that and it takes the way to do that what's the third one I go for eat

451
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:17.600
eat fermented foods and try and get three portions of ferments in your diet every day every day

452
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:24.400
and I wouldn't have said this three years ago because the science wasn't really strong enough to

453
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:33.360
support this but a study three years ago by a group in Stanford of 28 people showed the giving

454
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:41.360
they gave them five portions a day for about a month and showed that you can get a reduction in

455
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:49.280
blood inflammation levels about 25% in that time compared to a fiber diet and that

456
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:55.520
you know blew me away because this was the first really good study in this very because I mean

457
00:48:55.520 --> 00:49:01.680
lots of studies but they're not good quality suddenly someone doing daily bloods you know they

458
00:49:01.680 --> 00:49:09.280
were looked at 20 odd proteins in the blood and suddenly you got this link between a food

459
00:49:10.640 --> 00:49:16.480
and directly affecting inflammation in the blood which as we've been talking about has big knock

460
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:20.400
on effects on the brain and the rest of the body that's like kimchi and stuff like that fermented

461
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:26.960
food is any food that's been transformed by microbes into something better which means it it

462
00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:33.920
tastes better it's more complex it lasts longer so you don't need a fridge that's why our ancestors

463
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:40.320
did it and it's been chemically transformed it is generally more nutritious give me some examples

464
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:49.760
so yoghurt from milk all you're doing is adding zero fat zero fat Greek yogurt

465
00:49:50.720 --> 00:49:55.040
never have zero fat Greek yogurt why do you want to drink now I don't know I just I was just

466
00:49:55.040 --> 00:50:00.800
no no that means it be yeah heavily processed you don't want that but there's still good microbes

467
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:08.320
in it and you know all you're doing is transforming something rather average like milk which adults

468
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:14.480
don't really need it's not particularly beneficial milk and just by adding the microbes to it you

469
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:20.800
make it something healthy for the for the body and that's not been shown by by these these kind of

470
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:26.000
studies what you mean by what's wrong with this zero fat Greek yoghurt says zero fat so that's

471
00:50:26.640 --> 00:50:34.080
sounds like it's there's nothing well we need fat to live so fat is good and in fact that

472
00:50:35.040 --> 00:50:42.000
just a few days ago the USDA have changed their all their guidelines which used to be about saying

473
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:47.040
don't have fat and and have low fat products to saying actually fat is good all that advice

474
00:50:47.600 --> 00:50:53.760
we said in the past is wrong so why do they label things zero zero fat still because public

475
00:50:53.760 --> 00:51:00.320
still believe they're healthy and the companies that make them save money by calling by having

476
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:08.240
zero fat they replace the fat with starchy artificially made fillers basically so it's usually

477
00:51:08.240 --> 00:51:15.280
more sugary by having zero fat in it but if it's a zero fat it's a sign it's unhealthy you should

478
00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:19.600
avoid it so what are those fermented foods then you were going to say you said well I just give you

479
00:51:19.600 --> 00:51:24.240
a quick list of all of them so people know I'm talking about yeah so we've got yoghurt we've got

480
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:30.960
cheese and virtually every cheese has live microbes except American cheeses the more artisan

481
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:39.760
the bigger the number milk kefir which is like a super yoghurt often has 10 to 20 types of microbe

482
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:46.960
in it the crowds so I think of the 4k so we've got we've done kefir the crowd is like a sour

483
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:52.800
crowd so we got fermented cabbage cabbage is pretty boring on its own you ferment it the taste

484
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:59.600
are amazing and it has these health benefits then you've got kimchi which is a spicy

485
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:06.400
crowd and the staple diet of career and they're pretty healthy and even a guy it's got salt in it

486
00:52:07.120 --> 00:52:12.320
people who have kimchi have lower blood pressure than people who don't have kimchi and I love

487
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:20.400
kimchi and I hated it at first but I'm now a real addict then you've got kombucha you see those

488
00:52:20.640 --> 00:52:30.800
in most supermarkets and stores that's fermented tea and the good ones can have 30 or 40 of these

489
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:35.440
there's another type water kefir which isn't as popular but I think we're going to see more of it

490
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:42.000
tibikos is the other name for it it's grains with lots of microbes in it a bit like milk kefir

491
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:49.280
but with fruit added and then you've got miso all the miso you get in Japan miso soup miso paste

492
00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:56.320
tempehs all the all these are ferments around the world there's hundreds of different

493
00:52:56.320 --> 00:53:01.280
ferments in nearly every continent has their own type of ferment in Africa there's all kinds

494
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:06.160
of fermented beers and porridges and of course we got these are the live ones but there's also

495
00:53:06.160 --> 00:53:13.360
a lot lots of dead ferments obviously bread is a dead ferment if it makes sourdough then you've got

496
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:24.720
wines and beers and interestingly again very new science dead ferments actually have some

497
00:53:24.720 --> 00:53:32.480
health benefits so I used to be very dismissive of products like kombuchas that you would see in

498
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:38.960
in stores in America that say lightly pasteurized and I'd say that's literally rubbish be nothing

499
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:45.680
good about that but it turns out that even dead microbes when you do a randomized trial have

500
00:53:45.680 --> 00:53:51.040
some benefit for the host you're looking a bit skeptical but these against placebo

501
00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:57.840
studies and enough of them now that you definitely believe that I know some of the researchers

502
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:03.280
that they they were surprised but it's it's genuine why is that what's going on we think again

503
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:12.880
if you go back to the vaccine discussion we were having it looks like although it's not alive

504
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:19.760
the microbes still has a cell wall and it has proteins in the cell wall so it's like the debris

505
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:26.720
of these dead bodies that you're ingesting we think they're tickling your immune cells as they go

506
00:54:26.720 --> 00:54:35.360
through the small intestine okay and it's it's giving a signal to immune system to calm down

507
00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:42.160
reduce inflammation that's our best understanding of what this phenomenon is about so

508
00:54:43.600 --> 00:54:50.400
live microbes are best but it looks like dead microbes which are called postbiotics or zombie

509
00:54:50.560 --> 00:55:00.080
biotics are probably also good for you so I think all fermented foods even those that you know I

510
00:55:00.080 --> 00:55:05.840
would have dismissed three years ago are probably good for us and that's really the best way to

511
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:12.560
reduce your inflammation levels we did a big study in Zoe of we asked 9,000 people who have

512
00:55:12.560 --> 00:55:19.280
Zoe members who weren't taking ferment to try and see how they get on taking three

513
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:28.000
ferments a day how do they feel I think about 3,000 dropped out then didn't fancy it but nearly

514
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:36.160
6,000 continued and did the the two weeks taking it after a one week run in period and around half

515
00:55:36.160 --> 00:55:45.200
of them noticed improvements in mood energy and had less hunger so anyone out though hasn't tried

516
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:52.400
this I think it's a great simple way to see what you can improve just by changing what you're

517
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:56.400
eating and and going for some of these firments that you might not have thought about what's

518
00:55:56.400 --> 00:56:04.400
number four number four is pivot your protein at the moment proteins all in the news everyone wants

519
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:10.560
to have more protein big controversy about whether you need more most studies showed 90% of us are

520
00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:15.200
getting enough protein probably doesn't do too much harm other than it's really hard to get lots

521
00:56:15.200 --> 00:56:21.360
of protein in your diet and most people are focusing on eggs and meat when they think about protein

522
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:28.640
so what I think people should focus on is that many other sources of good quality protein like beans

523
00:56:28.640 --> 00:56:36.320
like legumes like mushrooms like whole grains like quinoa and pearl barley instead of rice

524
00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:40.080
that if you're thinking about it you can get your protein and get your fiber

525
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:46.560
because 90% of us are deficient in fiber and if you want to look after your gut microbes

526
00:56:47.200 --> 00:56:52.400
you really need to be giving them the fiber otherwise you're starving them just by having a protein

527
00:56:52.400 --> 00:57:00.080
drink next one which one are we now on number five number five is think quality not calories

528
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:08.960
the whole idea of assessing food by calories is wrong we've discussed this in the past you should never

529
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:16.080
really go for low calorie products you should go for ones that are whole foods that have their initial

530
00:57:16.080 --> 00:57:22.960
structure in them that have all those original nutrients it's all focusing really on high quality

531
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:29.120
foods that haven't been tampered with and why not calories because it's not a good way to assess

532
00:57:29.120 --> 00:57:36.000
food calorie restricted diets have been shown for the vast majority of people not to work

533
00:57:37.120 --> 00:57:46.560
and we know particularly through GLP1 drugs that as you restrict your your diet and calories your

534
00:57:46.560 --> 00:57:54.240
hunger signals go up and hunger is the main driver of obesity so all you're doing is

535
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:59.920
losing some weight short-term long-term it will bounce back as your as your body does that so

536
00:58:01.680 --> 00:58:07.360
calories should be ignored on any labels really you should be looking to get high-quality food

537
00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:11.920
that supports your gut and that's an important change in mindset for many people

538
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:19.680
but the next point is is the crucial one which links to that which is avoiding high-risk process

539
00:58:19.680 --> 00:58:29.600
foods because they damage your your gut and your body in in a number of ways the first obvious

540
00:58:29.600 --> 00:58:34.160
one is that they have lots of additives and chemicals to transform them into something edible

541
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:47.440
and those ones things like emulsifiers preservatives gums colorants flavorings artificial sweeteners

542
00:58:48.240 --> 00:58:55.120
are all things made by the food companies to trick your body into thinking these are tasty and

543
00:58:55.120 --> 00:59:01.840
they often are but they will damage your gut microbes who in their billions of years of evolution

544
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:08.560
have never come across these products because they don't exist in nature in that form so like the

545
00:59:08.560 --> 00:59:17.920
cereal bar I have here yes so this has got flavored fillings whatever that means glucose syrup

546
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:28.160
glycerin wheat fruit juice concentrate vegetable fiber natural flavorings oatmeal and

547
00:59:28.160 --> 00:59:34.960
soya all this one doesn't look too bad whatever I'm not sure our flavored filling is though

548
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:41.440
flavoured filling what about the other thing was that cornflakes or something cornflakes yes so

549
00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:50.080
they would be something I would regard as highly processed and probably a moderate risk

550
00:59:51.040 --> 00:59:56.720
and Zoe we created a new scale because in the past we'd have grouped all of these together as the same

551
00:59:56.720 --> 01:00:03.680
but I think we now need to think of these as zero mild moderate high risk depending on whether

552
01:00:03.680 --> 01:00:11.840
they have them perhaps that would be high risk okay because this is designed by the people that

553
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:16.640
make them it's got preservatives in it that so this will be the same in a week's time right we

554
01:00:16.640 --> 01:00:24.000
can still be playing with it it's not going to change or get moldy it's got emulsifiers to keep

555
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:31.360
it together it's got extra sugar in it it'll have a really amount of salt in there probably

556
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:39.520
and sugar and I've got some fat in here so it'll be hyper palatable and what does that mean

557
01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:46.000
that means that you can eat a lot of it before you get full so it makes you overeat

558
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:49.520
for you and I can't see we're talking about white bread just normal white bread that you'd

559
01:00:49.520 --> 01:00:54.240
probably get in the supermarket yeah and it's got a special structure that's different that also

560
01:00:54.240 --> 01:01:00.240
means that it it takes very little chewing all right so you put this new mouth you don't really have

561
01:01:00.240 --> 01:01:06.880
to chew it it's like baby food because you know a real bread made with high fiber you know it takes

562
01:01:07.600 --> 01:01:13.600
several chews to get it down you so there's lots of features of these foods that alert you to them

563
01:01:13.600 --> 01:01:20.000
being unhealthy so not only ingredients which are bad for your gut microbes and disrupt them

564
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:28.480
the additives you've got the fact that it makes you overeat so a lot of those potato snacks and

565
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:33.520
things you get they just dissolve in your mouth they're designed you eat them so fast

566
01:01:33.520 --> 01:01:40.720
is there a good bread or a preferable bread yeah there are there's not many things like

567
01:01:40.720 --> 01:01:48.320
rye breads and spelt breads ideally salados the German style breads that you know the Scandinavian

568
01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:55.040
breads they're pretty good for you because they still have the whole grain intact and that means

569
01:01:55.040 --> 01:02:01.600
it's got the nutrients also means it's harder to eat them quickly and they fill you up these if

570
01:02:01.600 --> 01:02:06.800
you eat this bread it just doesn't it makes you hungrier you used to have this all the time when

571
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:16.400
I was a junior doctor every ward had toasters and cheap bread courtesy of the NHS and you eat them

572
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:22.320
they give you a little kick you just feel just as hungry an hour later having eaten you know four of

573
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:27.600
them and I think this is the problem many people don't realize that this food is it's not only

574
01:02:27.600 --> 01:02:32.160
making them sick making their gut microbes sick but it's actually making them overeat and

575
01:02:32.160 --> 01:02:38.640
studies show it makes you overeat by about 25 percent which you know really adds up every day of your

576
01:02:38.640 --> 01:02:44.400
life a lot of people including me have gone through their life thinking that because when they

577
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:51.440
this stuff they get stomach pains and sometimes they have gas or they'll have like I don't know

578
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:58.480
toilet related issues that they are gluten free like they are gluten intolerant or whatever I

579
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:01.920
was one of those people I thought because if I eat this if I was to eat this piece of bread I'd

580
01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:06.960
feel it for the next two days so I assumed I was gluten free but when I think we spoke last time

581
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.640
you told me that almost nobody is gluten intolerant has a gluten what's the term

582
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:20.000
well there's gluten intolerant gluten intolerant yeah but that's not necessarily yes directly

583
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:28.720
I mean there are some but most people who think they are not and that's because generally

584
01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:37.280
when you eat a sandwich in the US or the UK you're getting crap bread terrible filling

585
01:03:38.640 --> 01:03:43.120
all kinds of other additives and chemicals which are probably disagreeing with you so when

586
01:03:43.120 --> 01:03:50.000
you give up eating sandwiches you might feel better so roughly up to 30 percent of people believe

587
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:56.080
gluten is a problem for them but only one person actually need to strictly avoid it I think

588
01:03:56.080 --> 01:04:04.560
it's a great example of we love to have a simple solution so gluten came in said right everyone can

589
01:04:04.560 --> 01:04:11.200
think about gluten let's just get rid of that and all our problems are solved rather than thinking

590
01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:17.600
what are all the other things in a in a cheap bread sandwich that you might be reacting to it also

591
01:04:17.600 --> 01:04:25.360
could be the emulsifier that is gluing that bread together or is in the mayonnaise that you're having

592
01:04:26.160 --> 01:04:31.680
it could be some of these colorants that are you know making the bread white or

593
01:04:32.640 --> 01:04:38.320
making that sauce bright yellow that you might be intolerant of because the more things that they

594
01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:44.400
these manufacturers add to these foods the more likely there is one that is disagreeing you with

595
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:51.280
you and your favorite sandwich suddenly you know becomes your worst enemy because you know they're

596
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:57.680
just created by brilliant scientists to all they care about is you find it irresistible and keep

597
01:04:57.680 --> 01:05:02.480
eating it if you eat the healthy stuff you don't have these problems where about these these

598
01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:09.280
almonds some walnuts and there's a what do you think of almonds I love almonds they're good for

599
01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:15.120
you and lots of studies showing they're good for your cognition even some mild effects on

600
01:05:16.080 --> 01:05:24.480
other aspects of brain health and mood these are good for gut health they've got all kinds of

601
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:32.800
really good fats in them these omega-3s and et cetera are in nuts so they're a fantastic snack

602
01:05:32.800 --> 01:05:39.920
that do fill you up and generally recommend them bring more data about walnuts than almonds for

603
01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:45.360
brain health that I've read about so there are you know stays the people take a lot of walnuts

604
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:50.560
they help but I think the idea shouldn't be there's only one type of nut that you should eat that's

605
01:05:50.560 --> 01:05:55.200
going to help your brain we should again go back to this concept of diversity and so

606
01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:03.200
mix nuts really your best way of helping your your brain health by eating these things and we used

607
01:06:03.200 --> 01:06:09.200
to demonize nuts because they had fat in it but certainly when I was you know 20 years ago

608
01:06:09.200 --> 01:06:13.440
well you can't have peanuts and nuts they're really bad for your heart now we're totally

609
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:20.960
reversed this and I just think it it just shows how much has changed in this field in a

610
01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:25.920
relatively short time what's number seven so that the mistakes was avoid high risk process foods

611
01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:33.280
import when you're picking food to try and get as many colors on your plate as possible because

612
01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:39.360
that's a sign that they contain these chemicals called polyphenols natural colors yes

613
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:46.480
exactly not the the blue colors you get that we really want to avoid which are bad for you so

614
01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:53.440
natural colors are a sign that they these foods are good for you so we're talking bright berries

615
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:57.600
we're talking raspberries blackberries strawberries we're talking

616
01:06:59.200 --> 01:07:06.560
rossololo lettuce we're talking about cabbages that are purple we're talking really all those

617
01:07:06.560 --> 01:07:12.560
bright colors because they contain chemicals that are from this family broadly called the

618
01:07:12.560 --> 01:07:21.360
polyphenols which act as fuel for your gut microbes and that allows them to then in turn

619
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:28.800
produce things like short chain fatty acids and keeps them healthy so it's a sign from nature that

620
01:07:29.680 --> 01:07:36.720
we're eating these these foods and it's a signal prior ancestor's new and the other sign which we

621
01:07:36.720 --> 01:07:44.960
can't tell from looking at but we get to know is bitterness so bitter plants tend to be much healthier than

622
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:54.720
bland ones that's the broccoli story that's why extra virgin olive oil is so good for us why

623
01:07:55.520 --> 01:08:04.240
coffee is also good why red wine and dark chocolate it's those polyphenols in there

624
01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:11.360
that are really giving us our microbes a boost and the eighth one last but at least

625
01:08:11.360 --> 01:08:19.280
last but at least give your gut a rest fast yes so time restricted eating this has been

626
01:08:19.280 --> 01:08:27.200
shown to help your gut recover in a proper circadian rhythm it's a bit like getting a good night's

627
01:08:27.200 --> 01:08:34.400
sleep for your gut so we can we all know the benefits of sleep for us but we often disregard our gut

628
01:08:34.400 --> 01:08:41.520
many people have a late night snack a kebab going home from the parbo whatever it is it's completely

629
01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:49.360
the wrong thing to do for your gut health 12 to 14 hour overnight fast trying to restrict your

630
01:08:49.360 --> 01:08:58.560
eating time to 10 hours really has been shown to have metabolic advantages for you and improves

631
01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:05.600
your gut lining so it's less likely to to leak and cause inflammation and allows the cleaning

632
01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:10.320
team and your microbes to come out and clean up your gut the number of studies now

633
01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:18.960
showing that it does have these metabolic advantages but I'm not pushing it so hard these days because

634
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:25.920
we did do a mass another massive citizen science study with over a hundred thousand people doing

635
01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:34.880
this we asked them to do 14 hour time restrict eating a third gave up they said I can't do this I

636
01:09:34.880 --> 01:09:41.280
feel too hungry all the time I need to be snacking something like almonds a third loved it

637
01:09:41.280 --> 01:09:45.840
and they're still doing it two years later and a third was sort of yeah I'll do this sometimes

638
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:51.920
I feel better on it so I think there's a personalized element to it but if you can do it

639
01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:56.720
it is really important I would urge even the people that find it tough if you can avoid that

640
01:09:56.720 --> 01:10:01.840
unhealthy late night snack that can have a really big impact on your gut and your brain

641
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:07.280
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642
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643
01:10:15.280 --> 01:10:20.960
team they would currently describe this product that I have in front of me called ketone IQ which

644
01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:26.160
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645
01:10:26.160 --> 01:10:30.800
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646
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647
01:10:35.200 --> 01:10:40.400
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648
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649
01:10:47.440 --> 01:10:52.400
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650
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651
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652
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especially in the world we're living in today and that is exactly why we created these conversation

653
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654
01:11:15.040 --> 01:11:20.640
this remarkable thing happens time and time again we feel deeply connected to each other at the end

655
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of every episode the guest I'm interviewing leaves a question for the next guest and we've turned

656
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657
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658
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659
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660
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661
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the link in the description below you've become more open to keto in recent years yes

662
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:04.640
and I'm key I would say I'm keto curious your keto curious what's made you keto curious because

663
01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:11.200
I don't think you I don't think you were very keen on keto before for no I think when we discussed

664
01:12:11.200 --> 01:12:19.360
it I was I was pretty anti it you know but reading about the brain how important metabolism

665
01:12:19.360 --> 01:12:26.160
of the brain brain energy is and doing more research has slightly changed my mind because

666
01:12:26.720 --> 01:12:36.160
what we discovered is how amazing it is for childhood epilepsy it is still used as the main

667
01:12:36.160 --> 01:12:43.600
treatment for drug resistant childhood epilepsy the keto diet the keto diet so what for people who

668
01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:49.360
don't know what what we're talking about here is you're changing the the energy supply of the

669
01:12:49.360 --> 01:12:56.240
brain from glucose to ketone bodies which is a switch that we've always had ever in evolutionary

670
01:12:56.240 --> 01:13:03.440
terms when we couldn't get food so after about two days of not having food we used up our glucose

671
01:13:03.440 --> 01:13:10.320
reserves we used it up from our muscles and you switched to this other form of energy

672
01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:18.480
and it's a survival mechanism but what it tends to do is reset the brain and so in epilepsy that's

673
01:13:18.480 --> 01:13:25.440
what they think it's a bit of a like rebooting your computer epilepsy is rather strange because

674
01:13:26.160 --> 01:13:33.360
and it used to be thought of as a mental illness as I said because you can get hallucinations

675
01:13:33.360 --> 01:13:41.120
delusions it's associated with depression all the same you can have all the same symptoms you get

676
01:13:41.120 --> 01:13:46.880
all mental illnesses interestingly and it can be cured by the by keto so that made me

677
01:13:47.600 --> 01:13:53.920
curious as to what else is going on so in theory some of the other mental health issues could be

678
01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:59.200
improved by keto at the moment there isn't sufficient good evidence there's lots of anecdotal

679
01:13:59.200 --> 01:14:08.240
stories studies of seven patients open label not convincing enough for me to say let's do it

680
01:14:09.040 --> 01:14:14.800
but I think definitely worth doing some real studies but also suggesting that even if you don't

681
01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:22.560
go as far as keto just by improving the metabolism and what how the brain is getting its energy

682
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:26.640
could be really important I think the interesting thing about the ketogenic diet

683
01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:31.040
as someone that kind of cycles in and out of it actually I showed you earlier I have this ketone

684
01:14:31.760 --> 01:14:37.520
monitor on my arm which is monitoring my at ketone levels at all times and connected to my phone

685
01:14:39.040 --> 01:14:43.280
I think the interesting thing is in the in the world we live in where there's a lot of food

686
01:14:43.280 --> 01:14:48.320
noises they call it everywhere you go there's temptation to eat something bad you're going down

687
01:14:48.320 --> 01:14:55.840
the high street there's takeaways and junk food stores and stuff like that what I think keto does

688
01:14:55.840 --> 01:15:02.800
which you're probably never going to see in a study I don't know if you would is it helps the craving

689
01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:08.480
it like dampens the food noise so this is part of why I think cycling in and out if it's quite

690
01:15:08.480 --> 01:15:15.200
useful for me because it means I have several moments in the year where my cravings for like

691
01:15:15.200 --> 01:15:19.840
this junk food some of which we have on this table just appear to vanish for a while even if it's

692
01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:23.920
just for a week or two weeks or three weeks or four weeks and that allows me to kind of reset and

693
01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:28.800
kind of take back control of the steering wheel whereas it's very easy especially in modern life

694
01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:32.880
when you're working really hard or you're traveling you've got sleep disruption to get into that

695
01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:37.440
exact spiral we talked about where you get like cravings for sugar and then you eat sugar

696
01:15:37.440 --> 01:15:42.560
so you feel a bit more tired and you lay down a bit more and then you're not you miss the gym

697
01:15:43.120 --> 01:15:49.280
and then you kind of you have the same like that with spiral keto continually snaps me out of

698
01:15:49.360 --> 01:15:56.240
the probability the chance of that how long for that probably the longest I've done it is maybe

699
01:15:56.240 --> 01:16:04.480
six weeks or eight weeks but even get even doing it for let's say one week for me will then

700
01:16:04.480 --> 01:16:11.520
mean the preceding four eight weeks are much healthier in every regard so even when I come off

701
01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:17.280
it I'm much healthier what I you know what I'm saying that's why what's interested me because I think

702
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:24.560
being in a long-term keto diet is never going to work right it's just too brutal and it's

703
01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:33.440
incompatible with keeping your gut happening so to me that's I mean very few people can tolerate

704
01:16:33.440 --> 01:16:39.680
it anyway as you know it's tough yeah if we can come up with a regime that every three or every

705
01:16:39.680 --> 01:16:46.000
six months you had a few days of going into keto just enough to reset your body and your brain

706
01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:51.840
and at the same time you protected your gut say by you know taking daily 30 or other things

707
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:58.080
that weren't gonna get you out of keto but could keep your your gut in a in a in the right place then

708
01:16:58.080 --> 01:17:06.880
I think we could potentially be have a something of practical use for brain health issues and I'd

709
01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:13.840
I'd love to you know do more I'm planning at some point later in this year to do to test myself

710
01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:20.000
see if I can do a week of keto whilst keeping my gut microbes happy have you ever done keto

711
01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:26.160
not properly no you know if you've done a 24 hour fast you know for a colonoscopy you are just

712
01:17:26.160 --> 01:17:30.400
about getting into keto at the time you're doing it but you're not you've got other things to

713
01:17:30.400 --> 01:17:35.760
worry about right game to the toilet to distract you I think this is really it because we talked

714
01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:40.240
about how holistic the whole picture of the body isn't how it's so interconnected and how the

715
01:17:40.240 --> 01:17:45.520
brain is so connected to the gut and all these things and there's something about doing the

716
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:52.720
ketogenic diet which just it feels like I get control back in a in a way that then has this

717
01:17:52.720 --> 01:18:00.000
bigger holistic effect on my life my ability of everything in my life like my ability to articulate

718
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:05.280
myself as a podcaster I had actually Juregen say the same thing had him say that words to the effect

719
01:18:05.360 --> 01:18:10.480
of the fact that when he's in ketosis it's so profound his ability to articulate himself and think

720
01:18:10.480 --> 01:18:15.680
as someone that does four hour podcasts that he would almost stay in it forever just for that

721
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:19.360
particular cognitive benefit of like mental clarity and I always say to my team that when I'm in the

722
01:18:19.360 --> 01:18:24.320
key to doing diet I feel like I'm looking at the world like this like everything's high definition

723
01:18:24.320 --> 01:18:27.760
and my mouth and brain are like I always say my mouth and brain are connected suddenly

724
01:18:27.760 --> 01:18:32.800
no I've had other people say this that they do get this sort of clarity which could be a you know

725
01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:40.720
more exaggerated way of filling that benefit of a long overnight fast when you come in after 14

726
01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:46.480
hours without eating and you're doing a podcast like this yeah I definitely do feel better than if

727
01:18:46.480 --> 01:18:54.080
I'd had a big English breakfast just before but I think the danger is that you know if people

728
01:18:54.080 --> 01:19:01.920
disregard their gut microbiome and do this any advantage would be wiped out so quickly by the

729
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:07.200
the problems of what's happening to your immune cells and everything else nearby so if we can

730
01:19:07.200 --> 01:19:14.320
find this intermittent middle way well you can still look after your gut then I agree that would

731
01:19:14.320 --> 01:19:22.640
be cool but I couldn't find any good data on this apart from anecdotes of you know fanatics who

732
01:19:22.640 --> 01:19:28.960
will obviously say it's great for their patients but without any control group because

733
01:19:29.040 --> 01:19:35.200
must be a big placebo effect as well it's very very hard to not have a placebo effect when you're

734
01:19:35.200 --> 01:19:40.880
doing that and when you're struggling so hard to do things that as they say you know people get

735
01:19:40.880 --> 01:19:45.520
keto headaches and they get all you know as you go into it people say it can be quite rough so

736
01:19:46.160 --> 01:19:52.880
you can't double blind yourself but I think it is fascinating that in the same way that reversing

737
01:19:52.880 --> 01:19:58.720
type 2 diabetes you know improves your mental health it makes sense that if you're switching

738
01:19:58.720 --> 01:20:04.240
energy levels in the brain you could also do things and let's not forget things at ECT still an

739
01:20:04.240 --> 01:20:11.920
effective treatment that's a that's a brain reset sometimes you know we may end up going back to the

740
01:20:11.920 --> 01:20:19.360
the old era of psychiatry where you know before we got into this obsession with neurochemicals

741
01:20:20.160 --> 01:20:25.360
to have this holistic view which I think is really fascinating and when you did that brain scan

742
01:20:26.080 --> 01:20:33.280
you found that you're in the highest 20% for levels of environmental microplastics

743
01:20:34.640 --> 01:20:40.240
in your blood yeah that was a bit scary they divide the microplastics into into two groups

744
01:20:40.240 --> 01:20:45.120
there's sort of depending the dimensions of them I was concerned am I eating was I eating a lot of

745
01:20:45.120 --> 01:20:49.920
microplastics it turned out that the higher levels of head were actually the the smaller ones

746
01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:59.680
that you get through the lungs which probably means a life having lived a life in London you know six

747
01:20:59.680 --> 01:21:07.200
decades in London probably wasn't very good for getting all this dust and and things in there

748
01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:11.760
that was a bit of a worry that's probably because I cycle round London a lot in the last 30 years

749
01:21:12.320 --> 01:21:17.200
have you changed anything in that regard I still cycle I don't like wearing a mask I know I

750
01:21:17.200 --> 01:21:25.520
sort of probably should and I've put a new water filter in my home to take out some of these

751
01:21:25.520 --> 01:21:32.880
chemicals and at least some of those plastics I'm still not totally convinced on how bad they are

752
01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:38.640
and the science I don't think really with resolve that issue yet but it's something I'm looking

753
01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:44.000
at closely and I think if there's some easy you can do I try and avoid plastic containers I try

754
01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:48.960
and avoid plastic bottles and I think that's good for the planet as well is there a way to take

755
01:21:48.960 --> 01:21:55.440
these microplastics out of our body once they're in there they's anecdotally they say things like

756
01:21:55.440 --> 01:22:03.040
plasma ferrisis you know you can go to a spar in LA and and get your plasma taken out and filtered

757
01:22:03.040 --> 01:22:09.360
and put back into your body this is from your blood but I don't think there's any real clinical trials

758
01:22:09.360 --> 01:22:16.000
that satisfy me that would be worth and they cost I think there's of $10,000 a go so it's not

759
01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:23.520
not a cheap process to have that done so I'll wait and see but at the moment yeah it's it's a worry

760
01:22:24.400 --> 01:22:31.840
I think there are other things in the environment probably worse you know dust pesticides

761
01:22:32.560 --> 01:22:38.240
is it better to have organic food rather than worry about plastics we don't know the answer

762
01:22:38.240 --> 01:22:44.240
to these these problems how is your views on GLP ones like Zemperkin would go for you whatever

763
01:22:44.240 --> 01:22:50.320
it's called these these injections and I think now tablets people are taking for weight loss

764
01:22:50.320 --> 01:22:54.320
how is your views on those evolved are they good bad and different they're going to be a part

765
01:22:54.320 --> 01:23:03.040
of our life anyway so they're going to transform medicine and obesity in a way we can't imagine

766
01:23:03.040 --> 01:23:08.480
at the moment especially now this year that the pills are available and it's coming off patent in

767
01:23:08.480 --> 01:23:16.160
many countries so it'd be much cheaper I think for people who really need them they're an incredible

768
01:23:16.160 --> 01:23:23.840
drug the only problem is you can't really come off them so they're pretty much for life my first

769
01:23:23.840 --> 01:23:31.040
worry is that a lot of people take them without supervision and they are not told to change their

770
01:23:31.040 --> 01:23:39.360
diet I'd love people to go take the drugs the hunger signal gets switched off they can then be

771
01:23:39.360 --> 01:23:44.800
mindful about their food they could do something like you know have the Zoe app or some other

772
01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:53.200
educational program to change their food habits forever in that in that window opportunity and

773
01:23:53.200 --> 01:23:58.560
that I think is where we should be doing and that that's been completely ignored at the moment

774
01:23:59.200 --> 01:24:06.320
virtually nobody's getting that lifestyle advice as well as the drug and so they're failing they're

775
01:24:06.320 --> 01:24:11.600
going back in it they're you know yo-yoing and they're getting the worst of the world the other

776
01:24:11.600 --> 01:24:18.800
the other slight worry we need to keep an eye on is the long-term effects on the brain so far the

777
01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:27.680
data suggests that it does reduce your chances of getting dementia even beyond you know reversing

778
01:24:27.680 --> 01:24:34.880
diabetes so it looks like its brain protective probably because it might have anti-inflammatory effects

779
01:24:34.880 --> 01:24:46.080
it reduces things like gambling and addictions so we don't really know how it does that but

780
01:24:46.960 --> 01:24:53.520
if it takes away some of your drives there's basic drives to say I like to take risks you know

781
01:24:53.520 --> 01:25:02.480
I like to take drugs I like to smoke I like to gamble on horses is it in some way changing you

782
01:25:02.480 --> 01:25:09.040
as a person long-term in that you might be less good as an entrepreneur for example

783
01:25:10.320 --> 01:25:16.080
so that is something I think is really interesting to follow but in general I think from a public

784
01:25:16.080 --> 01:25:26.480
health perspective this could save health systems hundreds of billions long-term and we ought to

785
01:25:26.480 --> 01:25:33.200
be taking it much more seriously and integrating it into holistic and educational advice and as

786
01:25:33.200 --> 01:25:40.560
it relates to brain health you also have a sauna routine as part of your brain health regime yeah

787
01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:47.040
I've been impressed by some of the science coming out of this and the fact that I quite enjoy

788
01:25:47.040 --> 01:25:52.880
just actually enjoy it from a hedonistic point of view so I try and have a sauna twice

789
01:25:53.600 --> 01:26:00.480
a week if I if I can do that ideally with a cold plunge afterwards but the science isn't sure

790
01:26:00.480 --> 01:26:06.320
whether that makes a big difference it's like a just a workout for your your blood vessels in

791
01:26:06.320 --> 01:26:14.080
your body and your brain so I think that the science is quite compelling and yeah it makes me

792
01:26:14.080 --> 01:26:19.120
feel good which it's always should be part of anyone's health routine some of you enjoy doing

793
01:26:19.120 --> 01:26:25.520
is always easy and regular socializing it's part of your brain routine yeah if you look at

794
01:26:26.240 --> 01:26:32.560
the happiest long live populations on the planet they've all got really good social lives

795
01:26:33.200 --> 01:26:39.760
they are always dining with friends going out often that does involve a little bit of alcohol

796
01:26:39.760 --> 01:26:46.240
in most of these societies but that doesn't seem to adversely affect them the idea of having a

797
01:26:46.320 --> 01:26:50.880
key group of core friends you see regularly I think is really good for your mental and brain

798
01:26:50.880 --> 01:26:57.040
health and loneliness has got to be one of the the worst things for your brain health so really

799
01:26:57.040 --> 01:27:03.840
important to maintain your your good friends what is what is the most important thing as it relates to

800
01:27:04.880 --> 01:27:08.480
brain health or overall health that we haven't talked about that we should have talked about

801
01:27:08.480 --> 01:27:13.040
I think we haven't talked about early life experiences and stress but trauma

802
01:27:13.760 --> 01:27:20.800
yeah so one thing and we haven't talked about talk therapies and you know conventional

803
01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:28.320
treatments so if you look at all these brain diseases virtually all of them if you go back in time

804
01:27:29.680 --> 01:27:39.600
if you've had emotional physical sexual trauma in in early life you're much more likely to have

805
01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:49.120
brain diseases later in life and this is across all of them again coming up with the idea that

806
01:27:49.120 --> 01:27:53.760
they're all related in some way and so you know we've moved on from the Freudian idea that

807
01:27:55.600 --> 01:28:00.800
the mind is different from the brain if you take the Solistic idea how does this fit into this

808
01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:10.320
inflammatory metabolic theory of brain health I think it it now does because they've done studies

809
01:28:10.320 --> 01:28:18.320
showing that following trauma or stress you can trigger your immune system to be permanently raised

810
01:28:19.680 --> 01:28:30.400
so again you get this consistent stress that the thermostat doesn't go down to baseline

811
01:28:31.040 --> 01:28:38.960
so you have a period of a year as a terrible period as a kid they do test later in life youth they'll

812
01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:46.480
find your inflammation levels in your blood are raised can people who had a nice gentle quiet childhood

813
01:28:47.600 --> 01:28:54.720
and I think this is starts to link all these different components together and these cross all

814
01:28:54.720 --> 01:29:01.600
these early life traumas you see the same thing in people with chronic pain chronic back pain

815
01:29:01.600 --> 01:29:11.520
fibromyalgia irritable bowel syndrome epilepsy schizophrenia everything but it doesn't really

816
01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:17.120
matter where the source of the stress was it's caused some physiological problem so I think that

817
01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:24.320
that is really interesting so that we couldn't pick up people if we had better tests of that stress

818
01:29:24.720 --> 01:29:32.800
and inflammation we could start to help those people earlier on before the brain started to

819
01:29:32.800 --> 01:29:39.360
struggle and I think that that's really interesting and of course we want to do most to reduce

820
01:29:39.360 --> 01:29:44.640
the problem in the first place they've also done studies on talk therapies so obviously

821
01:29:44.640 --> 01:29:52.080
psychiatry is compartmentalized into the talk therapists and the drug therapists and there's

822
01:29:52.080 --> 01:29:58.320
quite a lot of evidence that talk therapy does reduce inflammation levels and help your immune system

823
01:29:58.320 --> 01:30:05.680
so just in the same way possibly that talking to friends has that effect so talking to your therapist

824
01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:13.120
long term will reduce your stress and you can see that in blood markers as well the whole thing is

825
01:30:13.120 --> 01:30:18.720
starting to come together that all these different ways of treating it can be working through similar

826
01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:24.880
pathways that look so different throughout you know the fact that we've got so distracted by

827
01:30:27.360 --> 01:30:34.800
decart, Freud, treating the brain as something so different to the rest of the body.

828
01:30:37.200 --> 01:30:39.680
We have a close-in situation on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the

829
01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:44.400
next one who they're leaving it for and the question for you is what are you

830
01:30:45.200 --> 01:30:58.560
uncontainably excited about? I am uncontainably excited about the idea that we can

831
01:30:59.520 --> 01:31:05.360
dramatically improve our lives and our health just by making the right food choices.

832
01:31:05.920 --> 01:31:12.320
This is really driving me to talk about it so much to do the studies, to do the science,

833
01:31:12.320 --> 01:31:19.600
to spread the word because you know we're seeing all the time the dramatic effects and I was talking

834
01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:25.200
about the TV program was doing with these you know these these families that are really suffering

835
01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:33.520
it just shows you what you can do if you start treating food like you would treat medicine you know

836
01:31:33.600 --> 01:31:43.520
take it really seriously and experimenting with it and noticing those differences and you know I

837
01:31:43.520 --> 01:31:49.200
get the feedback all the time because I because the books and the media people tell me how

838
01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:57.360
their lives have been transformed and so that feedback keeps me excited on this topic and so I've

839
01:31:57.360 --> 01:32:03.040
never had that in my career before and it's super exciting. It's really hard though isn't it and

840
01:32:03.040 --> 01:32:07.920
this is I guess the part we don't talk about much which is the psychological part of you know

841
01:32:07.920 --> 01:32:12.400
what some might call discipline in the world we live in where you go into like a I know a gas

842
01:32:12.400 --> 01:32:16.800
station or a petrol station or whatever you call it in different parts of the world and the options

843
01:32:16.800 --> 01:32:23.920
are very ultra processed and you live a stressful life you're on your phone all day you're getting

844
01:32:24.800 --> 01:32:28.880
you don't have been fried by watching short form videos back to back to back to back to back to back to

845
01:32:29.600 --> 01:32:37.120
you maybe you know people are lonely than ever before so making the right choices when we're controlled

846
01:32:37.120 --> 01:32:44.560
by our neurology and our hormones and how we feel is is often easier said than done so even in the

847
01:32:44.560 --> 01:32:52.000
case of that family that you met do you think much about the psychology part of like discipline

848
01:32:52.000 --> 01:32:57.760
when it comes to making the right choice and is there any advice there on how to be more disciplined

849
01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:03.280
with our food choices or do you just think that knowledge is power in this regard well knowledge

850
01:33:03.280 --> 01:33:11.760
is power but it's not the only thing you you need tricks we're fighting a food environment

851
01:33:13.200 --> 01:33:19.600
you know multi-billion dollar industry wants us to eat this crap food your gas station they're

852
01:33:19.600 --> 01:33:26.400
being bribed to fill their everything around you with the worst foods the worst the food the more

853
01:33:26.400 --> 01:33:33.040
they pay the supermarkets to have it in a point where you're gonna buy it so you need to have

854
01:33:33.040 --> 01:33:39.840
tricks to counteract that and it not going to a supermarket is often one way to avoid doing that

855
01:33:39.840 --> 01:33:46.560
if my house was filled with crap food I would probably be snacking it I find it really hard

856
01:33:46.560 --> 01:33:53.280
to throw stuff away you know you you go to workplaces and you see people with piles of biscuits and

857
01:33:53.280 --> 01:34:01.120
M&Ms then you know they should be banned so there's certain things you say we need to fight back

858
01:34:01.120 --> 01:34:07.280
by changing the rules a bit just like you wouldn't have you know glasses of vodka in an office

859
01:34:08.240 --> 01:34:13.200
for people just have a swig if they fancy you shouldn't have candies and sweets and these things

860
01:34:14.400 --> 01:34:18.960
in the current environment where you know we're fighting a battle like you know they used to have

861
01:34:18.960 --> 01:34:24.640
cigarettes that were free everywhere forget and they changed that environment so the cigarettes

862
01:34:24.640 --> 01:34:31.680
are now really hard to get at that makes it easy for people to fight the habit and we we often

863
01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:35.280
beat ourselves up because we think of ourselves as being weak because of this we think ourselves

864
01:34:35.280 --> 01:34:39.600
being like ill-disciplined because we end up reaching for the wrong things but it is really really

865
01:34:39.600 --> 01:34:43.200
hard and it's really really hard even you know I sit here all day every day speaking to people that

866
01:34:43.200 --> 01:34:48.080
are experts on these subjects and you'd think that would mean that I made perfect decisions

867
01:34:48.080 --> 01:34:52.480
because I probably interviewed you know more people than the average 99.99% of the population on

868
01:34:52.480 --> 01:35:00.560
the subject but I'm a human with emotions and hormones in life to deal with and so even I have to

869
01:35:01.120 --> 01:35:05.360
regardless of how much I know about this stuff now I still have to like give myself the best

870
01:35:05.360 --> 01:35:09.840
possible chance by thinking proactively about my environment my food environment at home

871
01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:14.640
and even like in the car and even at the office like I have to think really proactively put systems

872
01:35:14.640 --> 01:35:20.000
in place to avoid the possibility that I get really really hungry really really late at night

873
01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:25.840
and my only options are shit for example you know which has been a bit the big change.

874
01:35:25.840 --> 01:35:30.480
But it's forming habits and that's the other thing so it's yes it's you've got knowledge then you

875
01:35:30.480 --> 01:35:37.680
got these tricks tricks to avoid often the worst offenders and then you've got to come up with

876
01:35:37.680 --> 01:35:42.480
these these new habits that you make that are going to break the old one so you know rather than

877
01:35:42.480 --> 01:35:46.640
reaching for your breakfast cereal in the morning you've got a different one ready to go and

878
01:35:48.080 --> 01:35:54.080
often we've found that if you can change that first meal of the day it becomes a lot easier

879
01:35:54.080 --> 01:35:59.680
because that's the one you're mainly in control of and realize when the other risky events are.

880
01:35:59.680 --> 01:36:03.920
Tim you've written many many books I'm going to link them all below this is the the newest one

881
01:36:03.920 --> 01:36:07.200
I know you're working on one specifically about the brain but I'm very excited for that one but this

882
01:36:07.200 --> 01:36:13.520
is the newest one called ferment and surprisingly a number one best seller yet again but there's a

883
01:36:13.520 --> 01:36:19.200
whole stack of books here the diet myth the real science behind what we eat spoon fed white almost

884
01:36:19.200 --> 01:36:24.000
everything we've been told about food is wrong and this book which has been extremely successful

885
01:36:24.640 --> 01:36:29.760
the food for life cookbook with 100 recipes created by Zoe I'm going to link all of them

886
01:36:29.760 --> 01:36:36.320
below for anyone that wants to check them out and thank you so much once again being a pleasure

887
01:36:36.320 --> 01:36:41.440
as always we've kept my audience very very healthy and they're very appreciative of that I I remember

888
01:36:42.640 --> 01:36:45.760
just the amount of people that come up to all over the world and cite the conversations we've

889
01:36:45.760 --> 01:36:50.640
had in the past and how that's been the thing for them that has helped them to change their life

890
01:36:50.640 --> 01:36:55.680
and it's pretty remarkable it's really remarkable how many people you must have fundamentally

891
01:36:55.680 --> 01:36:59.920
caused to create different food and dietary decisions through the work you've done yourself

892
01:36:59.920 --> 01:37:05.280
through the books through Zoe and that's a really special thing so thank you on behalf of all of them

893
01:37:05.280 --> 01:37:08.400
I hope we're living doing millions more I hope so

894
01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:17.440
if there's anything we need it is connection especially in the world we're living in today

895
01:37:17.440 --> 01:37:22.400
and that is exactly why we created these conversation cards because on this show when I sit here with

896
01:37:22.400 --> 01:37:28.320
my guest and have those deep intimate conversations this remarkable thing happens time and time again

897
01:37:28.320 --> 01:37:33.680
we feel deeply connected to each other at the end of every episode the guest I'm interviewing leaves

898
01:37:33.680 --> 01:37:39.120
a question for the next guest and we've turned them into these conversation cards and we've added

899
01:37:39.120 --> 01:37:43.680
these twist cards to make your conversations even more interesting and there are so many more

900
01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:47.840
twists along the way with the conversation cards this is the brand new edition and for the first time

901
01:37:47.840 --> 01:37:54.320
ever I've added to the pack this gold card which is an exclusive question from me but I'm only

902
01:37:54.320 --> 01:37:59.680
putting the gold cards in the first run of conversation cards so get yours now before the limited

903
01:37:59.680 --> 01:38:22.480
edition gold cards are all gone head to the link in the description below