WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.520 Hey guys, welcome back to the way you came podcast. 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:04.800 Today we'll be diving into our last session 3 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:07.120 from Welfare's Festival, where Jesse and I 4 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:09.840 were joined by Cephas and Joshua Luke Smith 5 00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:11.720 talking about all things creativity. 6 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:13.320 Let's get straight into it. 7 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:24.680 So what's the point in all this? 8 00:00:24.680 --> 00:00:29.760 God, his words like paint, spoken out like brush strokes 9 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:34.720 on a blank canvas and then he breathed life into us folk. 10 00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:41.880 Very good, he said, in my heart I know the creator. 11 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.400 He gave life to the creator and commissioned us to go 12 00:00:45.400 --> 00:00:50.360 but in my head I don't know what the point is. 13 00:00:50.360 --> 00:00:53.280 Why should I? 14 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.360 Do I have to create? 15 00:00:56.360 --> 00:00:59.640 What if there's no intake from what I make? 16 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:02.800 Am I just a repetitive copy and a system of fakes 17 00:01:02.800 --> 00:01:07.400 is everything intentional or can I run with my mistakes? 18 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:10.680 Do I put it out if it's not polished? 19 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:13.680 What if it's not great? 20 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:18.080 You see, the perfectionist in me could keep finding things 21 00:01:18.080 --> 00:01:19.600 to change. 22 00:01:19.600 --> 00:01:23.640 Will I ever make it to the, it's out now stage? 23 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:25.480 How do I get my ideas off the page? 24 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:32.600 Before we get to the polished piece, the released, 25 00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:36.200 not hidden, to break the question barriers, 26 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:40.360 holding us back, maybe you just have to listen. 27 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:36.200 I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I 28 00:02:36.200 --> 00:03:06.200 I'm sorry 29 00:03:06.200 --> 00:03:36.200 I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I 30 00:03:36.200 --> 00:04:06.200 I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I 31 00:04:06.200 --> 00:04:13.840 But we're going to un-pick a little bit on the Y. Why do we create? Why does Jesus want 32 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:19.480 to be so involved in our creation? And so we've got Cephas. Cephas, the first question 33 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:25.360 I've got for you, a very simple one. What did creating look like for you growing up 34 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.840 and how did Jesus begin to come into that later? 35 00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:36.720 Yeah, I think as a kid I love to draw. So that was probably a lot of the first 36 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:41.480 instances of creating anything. Just drawing cars to be specific, actually I love 37 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:49.360 drawing cars. Fast cars, slow cars, any cars. Just the idea of putting pencil to 38 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:54.400 paper was just so liberating as a kid. It was either maths, maths homework or 39 00:04:54.400 --> 00:05:02.160 drawing cars. So I also had piano lessons as a kid. So that was forced upon me. I remember 40 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:07.520 this instance where my piano teacher would arrive at my home to teach and I would be playing 41 00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:12.440 cricket outside and I would hide behind one of the other parked cars so that my piano 42 00:05:12.440 --> 00:05:17.600 teacher didn't see me just because I felt like it was a bit of a chore. But those are 43 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:24.120 the first instances of creativity slash creating and figuring out sounds on an old 44 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:31.520 Cassio keyboard. It was just a very wholesome little, you know, I can't remember, you know, 45 00:05:31.520 --> 00:05:37.160 when I suppose like God entered that frame specifically to do with being creative and 46 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:43.360 creativity because I grew up in a home where faith was already there before I had arrived. 47 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:51.720 So my parents, you know, were Christians so that I was growing up in a home with faith 48 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.640 already in the walls in the furniture. So the only context I knew was that and I think 49 00:05:56.640 --> 00:06:06.040 for me it was interesting exploring being creative at home in church and then outside of 50 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:13.600 that framework. So it was fun. I love that. And I think, you know, as creatives, our 51 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:20.880 environment does a lot and it impacts us in our hearts and what we want to share and 52 00:06:20.880 --> 00:06:25.320 create for the world or just create from our hearts if that makes sense. And I just 53 00:06:25.320 --> 00:06:31.720 wonder like what was the earliest thing that you remember like creating fiddling around 54 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:36.080 and being like, oh, like so gas that you just created something. And from that point 55 00:06:36.080 --> 00:06:42.360 that you've been like, okay, I want to do this more. Like what has been original things? 56 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:49.160 Something original, that's interesting. Yeah, it's just so ironic. I took photos as a hobby 57 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:54.360 because I just loved, you know, I just, anything that involved being outside of a classroom 58 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:59.640 I did. So even when I was at university, I was studying music at uni, but I didn't want 59 00:06:59.640 --> 00:07:02.840 to be in the lecture room. I would have wanted to be outside exploring. I was taking, 60 00:07:02.840 --> 00:07:08.120 like, I loved street photography and that kind of stuff. So I used to do that and I was 61 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:14.360 really proud of it. It only ended up on my really shabby Instagram profile and like 62 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:19.640 three likes, but who cared? I didn't. Yeah. So that was, that was fun. I was really proud 63 00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:24.840 of it. I think with music, it was a bit more, it took a long time to mature and for it 64 00:07:24.840 --> 00:07:30.480 to actually become something that I was, you know, felt like I was in a place to share. 65 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.840 I think I was, I was just afraid that it wasn't good enough. So I just held it back for 66 00:07:35.840 --> 00:07:43.480 as long as possible. I didn't release my first piece of music until I was 29. I was four 67 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:48.120 years ago. So yeah, all those years. I mean, it's not like I wish I did something, but 68 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:52.920 I think it's just, I was just afraid of the question you asked me like, I'm afraid to be 69 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:01.280 proud of something. So I think I just let it just simmer. It almost had to be really perfect 70 00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:06.280 and then it became perfectly perfect and then it became something I hated and then it was 71 00:08:06.280 --> 00:08:11.560 just a cycle of that. But I think the first piece of music was, yeah, four years ago, little 72 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:19.000 piano violin situation. And I was like, do you know what? I'm really proud of this. So special. 73 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:25.320 Yeah. And you said how you don't remember there was a time where God suddenly was involved 74 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:32.680 in the creative process. But why do you think after years of doing creativity with Jesus, 75 00:08:32.680 --> 00:08:36.280 knowing Jesus, you know, you told me you've been judged for most of your life? 76 00:08:36.920 --> 00:08:45.880 Why do you think creativity is important as a Christian? Yeah, I think making is good for anyone with 77 00:08:45.880 --> 00:08:55.720 a Christian faith. God made us. It's the way we arrive into existence through someone 78 00:08:56.280 --> 00:09:05.880 superior, someone incredible that makes us. So the theology or the idea of making is within us. 79 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:15.000 So whether that's making songs, making pictures, videos, digital, non-digital classical, whatever 80 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:20.360 art for me want to think of, I would even go as further as making structures. If you're a school 81 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:26.360 teacher and you make schedules for your kids and if you're in finance and you make, you know, 82 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:34.760 spreadsheets, making is just in us all. So everyone has something in them that wishes to make something. 83 00:09:35.640 --> 00:09:42.600 And seeing creativity as a bit of a, you know, a thing that's in us from the beginning, I think 84 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:50.200 is helpful to realise why creativity is important. But also we're here to make our futures. We do it 85 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:57.240 with God's help and God has put us on this planet with some gifts. We might realise that soon, 86 00:09:57.240 --> 00:10:02.360 we might realise that later, but at some point we realise that and we make the thing that God wants 87 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:06.600 us to make, whether that's a better neighbourhood, whether that's a better school that you're in, 88 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:11.960 or, you know, a better, you want to, you know, make a better town, city, country as a politician, 89 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:18.040 whatever, making is a part of who we are. The early stories in Genesis makes that clear to us, 90 00:10:18.680 --> 00:10:21.880 being made in the image of someone who makes. So go make something. 91 00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:31.160 Yeah. That's so good. Like, we are created to create. And I think that's just so beautiful from what 92 00:10:31.160 --> 00:10:38.920 you said. And I think something that you said earlier on was how it took you actually years to 93 00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:43.320 get to the point of being like, oh, I'm actually finally proud of this. I'm going to post it. I'm 94 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:49.640 going to release it into the world. And what do you think, like as creatives, I want to get this 95 00:10:49.640 --> 00:10:53.960 perfect. And then I can release something. Do you think that's something that actually holds us 96 00:10:53.960 --> 00:11:00.280 back as creatives? And what we're missing in that, like as Christian creatives, you just need to 97 00:11:00.280 --> 00:11:07.400 look outside at those trees over there and not two of those trees are the same. So God doesn't 98 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:17.480 fixate on a template or sort of a cookie cut perfection tree before the tree is a tree. It's 99 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:25.480 just whatever it is. No two trees are the same. So your art, whatever you make, you know, has no 100 00:11:25.560 --> 00:11:30.200 pressure to be like someone else's art. Like, you don't have to write a song like someone else. 101 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.720 You don't have to photograph like someone else. You don't have to dance like someone else. 102 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:39.880 You do what God's put in you. And I think it's the fear of it being like something that already 103 00:11:39.880 --> 00:11:44.360 exists, something that is already loved by people. I think it's the fear of it being like that 104 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:50.440 is what holds us as back from making. But you just have to walk outside and look at two leaves or 105 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:56.040 two trees or two cats and dogs or whatever, or two people, just not the same, but they exist. 106 00:11:56.040 --> 00:12:01.800 So why not something that we might make? Yeah, you've come to this word a few times fear. 107 00:12:01.800 --> 00:12:07.160 Yeah. If you don't know, see for us also tours with the wonderful Ellie Linde, who they brush 108 00:12:07.160 --> 00:12:14.120 at me the other day. And so you spend most of your weekends playing goodbye fear by Ellie Linde. 109 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:21.000 It's very true. It's a song you're familiar with, a song about breaking down the fear of what 110 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:25.720 other people think of us as I did a little survey in the room. I was like, okay, if you're a musician, 111 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:32.440 if you're an actor, within all of that, there's an opportunity to kind of lose confidence and be 112 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:37.880 scared and not step into what maybe God's called us to because of fear. Fear can be a mess 113 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:46.840 about for our creative process. And see for us how is fear affected your creative and Christian 114 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:51.800 expression, but also how have you overcome fear within creative expression? 115 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:58.840 I think the timeline of my, I'm not saying like I was late to anything, I don't want that to be 116 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:05.080 the message that you take away, but I just waited enough. I think I masked fear as waiting, 117 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:11.160 which is fine. I think it's okay, but I was very unsure about how it would be received. 118 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:18.520 If I'm honest with you, I was in some spaces that didn't really rate me, and that's okay. I just 119 00:13:18.520 --> 00:13:24.680 find myself in those spaces. And the reality of people not appreciating you for what you do 120 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:31.720 is a thing. And in turn, you don't want to do the thing that you want to do. So I had to wait 121 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:36.040 for the right context and the right time. And the pandemic was apparently the right place for 122 00:13:36.040 --> 00:13:42.280 me to have enough quiet around me. All the voices in my head died. I was like, okay, I'm going to do 123 00:13:42.280 --> 00:13:51.000 this. So it took time. I think over the years, I just stopped caring, which is really difficult to do, 124 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:58.040 but I spend less time on social media, even though social media is an incredible way to connect 125 00:13:58.040 --> 00:14:03.080 with people in showcase your work and find new people who might love your work. I also need to 126 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.160 put a framework around that and say, at these times, I will be on here. And then other times, 127 00:14:07.160 --> 00:14:11.880 I'm going to spend time creating rather than consuming. And I think that helped to move the fear 128 00:14:11.880 --> 00:14:21.400 out of what I was making. And obviously with God's help, yeah. I'd say that was a process of 129 00:14:21.400 --> 00:14:26.680 over time gradually eliminating fear, having a bit of structure. Because I think if you're 130 00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:33.960 loose and if you're structuralists, it just reminds me of the chaos that existed before God actually 131 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:41.560 created the earth, just chaotic dark and God brought order to that chaos. And that's oftentimes 132 00:14:41.560 --> 00:14:47.960 what fear feels like as you're just dragged into spaces that you don't want to be in and you're 133 00:14:48.520 --> 00:14:53.800 faced with opinions and perceptions of what you create without your own will and without your 134 00:14:53.800 --> 00:15:00.040 own control. Just reign all that in. Add a bit of structure to your life and you'll be surprised 135 00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:05.960 how freely you create. That is super practical. And I love how you like shared a bit of your story 136 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:12.280 of being in spaces that you felt kind of underappreciated, not really seen what you do. Yeah. 137 00:15:13.880 --> 00:15:19.400 Like fear can hold us back from a lot of different things, especially like I find that when 138 00:15:19.400 --> 00:15:24.600 the Lord calls us into spaces, often fear can be the first thing that we feel because we're like, 139 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:30.440 oh, but I feel like so insecure, I feel like inadequate to be here. I don't know if I'm actually 140 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:36.920 even meant to be in these spaces. And obviously God doesn't give us a spirit of fear, like He gives 141 00:15:36.920 --> 00:15:42.920 us a spirit of peace and sound mind. I was just wondering like obviously you grew up in a very 142 00:15:42.920 --> 00:15:51.000 like sounds like relatively creative home that like helped you do what you're now currently doing. 143 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:56.760 I wonder like for somebody asking or thinking this like how do I know whether I'm actually 144 00:15:56.760 --> 00:16:03.080 made to create like obviously there's there's a bit of a maybe not so much nowadays but I remember 145 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.720 growing up and people would say, oh, if you wanted to do something creative like, oh, you're not 146 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:13.720 like that's really hard to like break through or I'll make anything of it. Like how do you 147 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:19.720 know if you're like made to create with all of that around you? Are you speaking like a professional 148 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:26.840 sense? I guess so yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole different sort of conversation because I 149 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:31.720 think it's fine to create for the sake of creating and making things in a way to express 150 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:37.880 yourself to the people around you and to God and it's that conversation. The moment you bring 151 00:16:37.880 --> 00:16:45.960 business into it and you're called to do something as a vocation for a living then there are so 152 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:52.280 many factors at play which you have to work through which is right place, right time with the right 153 00:16:52.280 --> 00:16:58.760 people and aligning those three things is something that only God can do. So if God has called you to 154 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:04.760 that, I hope you're willing to wait for all those three things to align at some point in your life 155 00:17:04.760 --> 00:17:09.400 and maybe two things will align you might be at the right time with the right people but it's not 156 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:14.600 the right context or the place for you to thrive and do your thing and if you're willing to wait for 157 00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:21.240 that or it might be the other two it could be you know the right time and the right place but you're 158 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:27.720 not at the right setting with you know the correct team around you or you don't have the right 159 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:32.760 context of the network so all of that requires building up and working towards and these things 160 00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:39.400 take time and I'd say until until that that point surround yourself with people who appreciate 161 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:46.120 what you do not the people who say everything is great because part of being creative is important 162 00:17:46.120 --> 00:17:52.040 to be receptive to good feedback and trying and trying again but surround yourself with good people 163 00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:57.720 who do what you do maybe they're a little bit further having like you know you know could could 164 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:03.720 call it a mentor could call it a you know someone who's creative that's that you look up to I 165 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:10.120 think that's useful but take the pressure away take the financial pressure away from it and you create 166 00:18:10.120 --> 00:18:14.440 a lot more freely see if it's thanks for joining us on the panel though one of applause for 167 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:21.400 thank you guys 168 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:52.520 that I might see you above my cynicism and the sin that sinks beneath my bones muscle and sin you 169 00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:01.800 but I want to make something that brings you glory I want to make something that reminds me of 170 00:20:01.800 --> 00:20:09.160 the story of all stories so remind me that I am in you and in everything that I have been through 171 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:14.760 you have been there and there has never been a millisecond of a second that your attention has 172 00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:22.200 been elsewhere you are the God who makes a way who on my darkest most desperate days parts the 173 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:29.240 reddest waves holds my face within your gaze and offers me a tender grace you are the God who 174 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:34.920 makes the mountain range who made the ever glades you are the God who paints the details on the 175 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:40.760 wings of a hummingbird and gave Emerson and Hemingway the pen and page you are the God who 176 00:20:40.760 --> 00:20:47.080 coves our canyons and pours our oceans you thought the supernova explosion you wrote the code 177 00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:53.560 to DNA and you spoke the whole cosmos into being made you are the God who exhales to the dead 178 00:20:53.560 --> 00:20:59.240 erased you are the God who gave David the aim that made a giants grave you are the God who made 179 00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:05.000 Daniel sleep like a baby in a lion's cave you are the God who changed the nation with a child 180 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:12.200 of Josiah's age you are the God who made fire full like rain when Elijah prays you are the God 181 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:17.880 of the infinite and the infinitesimal the God of the metaphysical and the invisible the quark the 182 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:24.840 quantum the proton and the poet's song you are the God who was and is and is to come whose holy 183 00:21:24.840 --> 00:21:32.600 throne will never be overthrown who by your death you poured out love and in your final breath 184 00:21:32.600 --> 00:21:38.920 you gave me life and all of this is true but my thoughts of you have been too small and they have 185 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:46.200 been too few for you are the preeminent president presiding over every earthly empire and natural 186 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:53.000 element and all of this is true but my thoughts of you have been too small and they have been too 187 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:59.960 few so lift my eyes that I might see you but I want to make something that brings you glory 188 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:05.560 I want to make something that reminds me of the story of all stories 189 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:08.760 Amen 190 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:19.400 as you heard Joshua is an amazing poet a father he was on our podcast about six months ago around 191 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:26.680 that right yeah something like that time goes fast some goes fast and I was so inspired by his heart 192 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:35.080 for Jesus and his heart for for creativity and how he blend the two together it's quite a tricky 193 00:22:35.080 --> 00:22:41.160 thing navigating like kind of what's been dominated by the secular space for a long time 194 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:47.800 as a Christian and and just so to just start us off on like what creativity looks like for you 195 00:22:47.800 --> 00:22:54.440 how did you know personally Joshua you were called to be a creative beautiful question 196 00:22:54.440 --> 00:23:01.080 I grew up around my my father's music anybody else related is growing up with music in the house 197 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:07.480 listening to your parents music and so my dad loved storytellers love storytellers 198 00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:12.680 this is a bunch of names that I presume in most people in the room won't know but I'm going to say 199 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:19.000 them anyway Tracy Chapman Genesis Tom Petty in the heartbreakers 200 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:27.080 Kat Stevens Simon and Garfunkel and I grew up listening to these voices and from a young age 201 00:23:27.080 --> 00:23:31.960 was very moved by them and would think often of like I want whatever they're doing I want to do 202 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:37.880 that and then when I was 13 my big sister bought me the Fuji's album the score and then she bought 203 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:44.920 me an M&M album and I found hip hop and I was I was like this is all I want to do I want to write 204 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:51.320 bars I want to tell stories I mean that's awesome to hear that like you've been inspired by so many 205 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:57.640 people what was the point where you like we're like okay I'm inspired by these people I'm going to 206 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.560 give it a shot I'm going to try it myself like what was the first thing is there any like is there 207 00:24:01.560 --> 00:24:06.920 like a specific then you can remember oh my goodness yeah I mean I I remember the first performance I 208 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:16.200 did and that was kind of after maybe a year or two of writing it's constantly and I began writing 209 00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:21.560 without the can I just say one thing I have a strange accent and I always get told when I'm on 210 00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:26.920 the mic I have a weird accent so in cases anyone is like where is this guy from I was born in South 211 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:32.840 London but I was raised in Pakistan and I've moved around when I was 14 I lived in 15 212 00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:38.120 places so I have a strange accent so I just wanted to say that because some people like where you know 213 00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:44.360 what is this accent anyway I've been writing a lot for a long time and then I did a school 214 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:51.240 talent show and I bombed I got up on stage and I completely forgot my lyrics and interestingly 215 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:56.920 that was the moment I was like I'm going to do this you know like I want to I want to I want to go 216 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:03.800 again I want to I want to I want to get what I want back yeah yeah and was it always Christian 217 00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:08.360 were you like yeah I'm going to do this I'm going to become a Christian poet no I've never 218 00:25:08.360 --> 00:25:13.320 thought like that no I've never I've never thought like that I think I've just I've learned from those 219 00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:19.640 that that I mentioned of I wanted to I want to be an honest storyteller if I tell you my story it 220 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:25.640 won't be long until you know that I'm married because I adore my wife and if I tell you my story 221 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:30.360 it won't be long until you know I'm a Christian because I adore Jesus but I'm I'm not setting out 222 00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:36.200 to tell you it in a way that is like when can I get Jesus in here I'm just trying to be as honest 223 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:43.240 as I can and the reality is Jesus is everything to me and so it's kind of come through in the 224 00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:50.200 music yeah I love how you're you just speak from your heart and like you create from this place 225 00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:57.160 of honesty of integrity and ultimately wanting to be like I know this is this is me and I'm not 226 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:02.520 hiding it and like I was just wondering like obviously you said that you've been writing you wrote 227 00:26:02.520 --> 00:26:09.640 a lot before you even had your first like bomb of a gig like how do you handle that relationship 228 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:15.400 between like oh this is something that I really like but also this is something that I don't like 229 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:20.200 and like finding that like oh how do I learn from this how do you balance that relationship 230 00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:27.000 between the two in the creative process yeah I think I mean what one angle I would approach that 231 00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:34.280 with is the feeling of being defined by it so coming off stage at 14 I remember the red hoodie 232 00:26:34.280 --> 00:26:40.360 I was wearing like that moment is seen into my mind and feeling like my entire identity had crumbled 233 00:26:40.360 --> 00:26:46.120 because I had bombed and I was like I was I was banking on that gig going well so that my reputation 234 00:26:46.120 --> 00:26:51.720 as an artist at school would be amplified and when it was and I felt like I didn't know who I was 235 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:57.320 so that revealed the kind of cracks in the foundation of my identity and a lot of my life 236 00:26:57.320 --> 00:27:04.360 in writing and in creativity has been trying to ensure I never return there again that I love 237 00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:10.920 making I love what Seifers were saying of I mean this is our birthright this isn't like a switch 238 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:16.040 this is actually this is who you are this could perhaps be what defines you as a human being is that 239 00:27:16.040 --> 00:27:23.800 you are inherently creative so that has always been you know just an outworking of my life but 240 00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:29.080 what has been a more of a discipline is not allowing it to be something that is defining of me 241 00:27:29.080 --> 00:27:36.360 and when it is then my relationship with it becomes very tense and brittle and difficult so 242 00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:43.320 that's what I feel more aware of yeah in that regard so good and can I just get a share of hands 243 00:27:43.320 --> 00:27:50.280 who wants to work as a creative in any sort of industry in the future as an actor and musician 244 00:27:50.280 --> 00:27:59.480 this is awesome lots of hands in the air this is great it's a very very busy industry I know I've 245 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:04.920 felt this you might see me on stage doing all this talking stuff but I'm also a bass player 246 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:10.120 so I gig quite a lot hey there you go he loves it so I gig a lot of weekends and sometimes it's 247 00:28:10.120 --> 00:28:15.480 really tricky to know gosh where where do I fit there's thousands of bass players I'm no 248 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:22.600 Pino Paladino it's for you you know it's it's hard to know where to land and whether your 249 00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:27.640 your voice is actually unique or whether it's just adding to the noise I don't know if anyone ever 250 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:34.760 relates to that like am I even bringing something unique or am I just adding to the noise and how 251 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:40.280 how do you I don't even know if I have a question I'm just like how do you navigate that space 252 00:28:40.280 --> 00:28:47.240 and I do hear you go into it yeah I mean I'll answer that very kind of subjectively in terms of 253 00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:54.520 my life I for a long time I wanted to work out how can I get paid for doing this which is a legitimate 254 00:28:54.520 --> 00:28:59.800 question you know I'm not I'm not discrediting that question I was driven by it for a long time 255 00:28:59.800 --> 00:29:07.240 of like I love doing what I do here how can I make this work financially and what came was a 256 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:12.440 shift in my thinking around I was just kind of lofty language I can break it down but the 257 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:18.040 difference between having a creative job and a creative vocation and so I want to talk about a 258 00:29:18.040 --> 00:29:24.200 vocation I'm saying this isn't this is the work that I'm here to do in the world but it might not 259 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:31.720 end up being my job as in the job that pays my rent and my bills but it is what I'm here to do 260 00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:37.320 a lot of artists throughout centuries the artist entries have been supported by what's called 261 00:29:37.320 --> 00:29:43.880 patrons so a patron would be someone who pays the artist to do their work because the patron 262 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:50.920 believes it's good that this artist is making work and they see value in it so they pay the you know 263 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:55.400 artists like Rembrandt you know these incredible artists didn't make a lot of money from their 264 00:29:55.400 --> 00:30:01.160 art but they someone paid them to do their art and I had this clarifying moment in my kind of mid-20s 265 00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:07.000 which was oh I am my patron so sometimes I might be working at super dry folding t-shirts 266 00:30:07.800 --> 00:30:12.360 paying the artist to write poems in the evening and I became really like 267 00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:17.720 satisfied in that like I'm sitting on the stage now being able to tell you I I'm a full-time 268 00:30:17.800 --> 00:30:22.760 poet you know which feels an odd thing to say and it's a different conversation of getting into 269 00:30:22.760 --> 00:30:28.280 the mechanics of that but I would say you know if you have the conviction let's let's do it with a 270 00:30:28.280 --> 00:30:34.760 bass player you know I met Victor Wooten had a moment and he was like I was born to play bass 271 00:30:34.760 --> 00:30:42.280 bro like I was born to play the bass guitar like Eric Little who ran the fastest mile said I run 272 00:30:42.280 --> 00:30:49.080 because I feel god smile when I run you can't stop me lacing up my shoes I'm a runner Victor Wooten 273 00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:56.440 all the guy that you mentioned Pete I'm a bassist vocationally I'm here to play bass if I'm like 274 00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:04.520 working at you know McDonald's or I'm working you know as an engineer that might be me paying to have 275 00:31:04.520 --> 00:31:10.040 the opportunity to play bass and then for for some bro it works out and they're touring the cool 276 00:31:10.040 --> 00:31:16.040 but that's not rude there actually isn't room for everyone to do that there's like so I'm kind 277 00:31:16.040 --> 00:31:21.640 of like I'm gonna I'm gonna leave the industry like I'm gonna leave the idea that I have to fight 278 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:26.520 for my like singular spa and I'm gonna live with this vocation of this is what I'm here to do 279 00:31:26.520 --> 00:31:32.440 now I think more often than not when you when you approach it like that the paying opportunities come 280 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:37.720 because if I can can I lean in the script real quick because if you live with a vocational creative 281 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:45.080 heart you become excellent like if you're Victor Wooten being like Victor Wooten is an unbelievable 282 00:31:45.080 --> 00:31:49.880 bass player if you're like I'm here to play bass regardless of what I'm getting paid to do you're 283 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:54.520 probably gonna be the guy who's still playing bass when his fingers are bleeding when the other 284 00:31:54.520 --> 00:31:59.560 one's like now I'm not getting paid for this bro I'm not playing this is Exodus 31 right 285 00:31:59.560 --> 00:32:07.720 Exodus 31 the Lord said to Moses see I have called by name Bezelel the son of Uri son of her 286 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:14.520 from the tribe of Judah and I have filled him with the spirit of God with ability and intelligence 287 00:32:14.520 --> 00:32:21.720 with knowledge and craftsmanship to devise artistic designs and to work in gold silver and bronze 288 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:27.320 in cutting stones for setting and in carving wood and to work in every craft because that I have 289 00:32:27.320 --> 00:32:33.080 filled him with the spirit to be a craftsman and to be excellent at it and I don't think that is 290 00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:37.960 validated by getting a paycheck I could say I've been filled by the spirit of God to write poems 291 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:43.720 for his glory and I've been doing that since I was 14 years old and whether the paycheck came or not 292 00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:49.320 didn't define whether I was going to do it or not bro that is so good like I think everyone I 293 00:32:49.320 --> 00:32:55.400 needed to hear that you know my identity and my creativity isn't placed in whether I get paid for 294 00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:02.440 or not it's actually placed in the God who's called me to like he's like put it in me within me 295 00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:08.680 to create I'm creating because he's told me to create not because not because somebody saying 296 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:15.640 I pay you for that I pay you for that gifting but rather no this is who I am I'm called to I'm 297 00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:23.320 called to be a poet writer I'm called to like create songs that make people feel something 298 00:33:23.320 --> 00:33:29.320 make people to feel the love of Jesus or even like create videos that are visually beautiful 299 00:33:29.320 --> 00:33:35.080 and like make people feel something yeah and you're a little you're a little strange when you 300 00:33:35.080 --> 00:33:39.640 start living like that exactly I'm like 14 years old and it's like yo do you want to hang out 301 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:44.520 tonight I was like bro I'm right I'm writing bars I was making a beat yesterday and all I can think 302 00:33:44.520 --> 00:33:49.000 about 14 years old is getting home to to write to this beat that's all I want to do I just want 303 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:53.480 to write on that beat I don't do anything else you know and some of you relate to that you're like 304 00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:57.800 no no I'm going home because there's this film that I want to watch I want to I want to work out 305 00:33:57.800 --> 00:34:02.760 what the cinematographer was doing with the light in that scene when they did this one take and how 306 00:34:02.760 --> 00:34:07.240 they I have to do that it's like but you don't have to know I have to do that I'm called to this 307 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:15.400 it's so good and I think like our faith has a huge place to play into this as creatives 308 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:22.440 and where what called to be in the world but not of the world so there's a difference between 309 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:26.920 the way that we carry ourselves within a creative space whether you feel you're called to the secular 310 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:34.600 or the non like the Christian spaces I just think like how has faith like impacted your creativity 311 00:34:34.600 --> 00:34:41.560 yeah my goodness I mean it's it's like C.S. Lewis has the phrase where he says I believe in God like 312 00:34:41.560 --> 00:34:48.600 I believe in the sun not because I see it but by it I see everything so it's like I don't often 313 00:34:48.600 --> 00:34:52.840 you look at this guy like I can't tell you the sun is there just I see everything because the sun 314 00:34:52.840 --> 00:35:01.160 shining so I see my life because of God like God my faith is like the light over my life that I 315 00:35:01.160 --> 00:35:06.360 can oh I know I can see the pain that I have in my heart like I can see the joy I have in my 316 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:13.160 heart I can see the friend I've been writing a song recently just for my friend and it's 317 00:35:13.160 --> 00:35:18.840 totally enlightened by my prayers for her you know like I've been praying for this friend and now 318 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:25.080 the song has come out of it and I'm like my life in prayer has both this you know yeah great 319 00:35:25.080 --> 00:35:29.640 I just heard a quick word I just felt on my heart to I don't know I don't know who it's for 320 00:35:29.640 --> 00:35:35.240 but I just felt like you don't have to be joyful to create like you don't have to create when 321 00:35:35.240 --> 00:35:42.040 you're happy you can create when you're feeling different things too yeah yeah I just heard that 322 00:35:42.040 --> 00:35:49.480 word yeah it's great what a word like sadness and fear and other feelings and joy can rob us 323 00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:54.840 from what God has got for us which is honesty with him and creative with him so that's great that's 324 00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:01.800 really good and to give a little bit more insight into and a bit more context into this seminar 325 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:08.760 this session why we've done it I remember when I was 14 I was just starting out my my base journey 326 00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:15.560 and I I was just watching videos after videos and I'd go to Christian festivals like this and I 327 00:36:15.560 --> 00:36:23.160 let's see all some players doing amazing things and all I wanted to do was go home and practice 328 00:36:23.160 --> 00:36:29.560 go home and and act and do and like you know I do photography I do the Christian TikTok stuff 329 00:36:29.640 --> 00:36:35.880 I'm like all I want to do is just create and be and do stuff with God and our goal of this session 330 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:41.720 was to stir that little little desire in you like oh great I'm witnessing beautiful things I'm 331 00:36:41.720 --> 00:36:47.320 hearing beautiful music I'm seeing beautiful trees and and shots and hearing insights from these 332 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:52.920 amazing amazing speakers who are in touch with who they are and in touch with God when it comes 333 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:59.720 to creativity and so I'm hoping that through this session we even now people's hearts beginning 334 00:36:59.720 --> 00:37:04.920 to bubble and be like oh I want to buy that new piece of gear I want to go like practice my painting 335 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:11.240 I want to go dance and and there's such like freedom to do that God loves it when we when we 336 00:37:11.240 --> 00:37:17.080 explore creativity as we've learned through all of this conversation God loves it when we bring him 337 00:37:17.080 --> 00:37:22.920 into our creativity and there's actually an innate thing within all of us which is we want to create 338 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:30.600 and we have a desire to create and so freedom we can do that let's go for it and when we had Joshua 339 00:37:31.240 --> 00:37:36.360 on a podcast a few months ago he talked us through the importance of stillness 340 00:37:37.240 --> 00:37:42.920 when it comes to listening to the Holy Spirit and as we were praying into the seminar and planning 341 00:37:43.560 --> 00:37:49.400 we thought what what a best what a great way to send people out is almost have a moment of stillness 342 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:54.200 and reflection to think over to chew over a little bit of what we thought but also just to listen 343 00:37:54.200 --> 00:38:00.280 to surroundings and to end the seminar and if you don't mind just giving a little bit of context 344 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:05.960 and then leading this next section now I'll get my little time on my phone yeah beautiful 345 00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:12.840 yeah in the in the 1950s I think it was there was a pianist called John Cage who's a music composer 346 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:21.800 and he once went into what is called an anicoic chamber which is a room that is completely silent 347 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:29.000 like completely silent no echo no reverb and he went in to experience this silence but when he 348 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:34.760 was in the room you could hear a frequency and when he asked the sound engineer like what was 349 00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:39.960 that sound they said that was the sound of your blood circulating through your body like you could 350 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:45.640 it was so silent you could he could hear his body at work and it gave him this idea so he composed 351 00:38:45.640 --> 00:38:52.360 a piece called 433 the first time he played the piece he walked down stage he sat at his piano 352 00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:59.560 he opened the lid he put his hands on the keys and for four minutes and 33 seconds he didn't play a 353 00:38:59.560 --> 00:39:05.080 note and then after 43 four minutes and 33 seconds he closed the lid and he walked off and this 354 00:39:05.080 --> 00:39:11.080 point was this when we spent time in silence we hear what's actually going on so whenever that 355 00:39:11.080 --> 00:39:17.000 piece was played you would hear the sound of the room it was in and if I took that for us in a 356 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:22.440 kind of more personal approach to the Lord when we're silent before God we hear the real 357 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:28.040 murmurs of our hearts and we hear the sound of our thoughts and we we do what the Psalmist said 358 00:39:28.040 --> 00:39:33.640 when the Psalmist said in Psalm 139 search me and know me God I want you to know me so as we do 359 00:39:33.640 --> 00:39:38.680 this we can do it for minutes 33 seconds for some of you this is going to feel like the longest time 360 00:39:38.680 --> 00:39:45.880 you've ever endured but this could be the most powerful practice for you as an artist but more 361 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:51.160 importantly is someone who wants to grow in their relationship with God to experience just being 362 00:39:51.240 --> 00:39:57.880 with him for a few minutes so we're going to start a timer and I encourage you to close your eyes 363 00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:02.440 and listen listen to the sound of the football playing listen to the sound of the wind listen to 364 00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:07.640 the sound of people moving in their chairs just just listen to the sound but also listen to the 365 00:40:07.640 --> 00:40:12.360 sound of your heart listen to the the voice that you're hearing in your heart maybe the fear 366 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:16.600 wraps the joys whatever it is just take take care of it and pay attention to it 367 00:40:16.600 --> 00:40:23.560 and the time starts that's great context now 368 00:44:46.600 --> 00:45:08.440 so God we thank you for creativity thank you for your Holy Spirit thank you that we're not just 369 00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:17.640 noise we are unique and we are chosen as sons and daughters thank you that you give unique and 370 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:25.640 personal callings to each one of us and we pray that as we leave this session will be inspired 371 00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:35.320 not only to create but to bring you into our process to be honest and not just to create when 372 00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:41.240 we're happy but as Michelle said create when actually there's real sorrow and we'll be just 373 00:45:41.240 --> 00:45:53.080 pray for an authentic expression come Holy Spirit enable us encourage us in Paris show us your love 374 00:45:53.640 --> 00:46:07.000 show us your your specific personal love and the name of Jesus amen thank you for joining us 375 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.120 Joshua pleasure thank you for having me yeah 376 00:46:16.120 --> 00:46:21.240 and there we have it thanks so much for joining us for all of these sessions from Muafi's festival 377 00:46:21.240 --> 00:46:25.400 if you guys are listening in on YouTube make sure to subscribe and give us a little comment down 378 00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:30.280 below which session was your favorite but if you're tuning in on Spotify and Apple Podcast make 379 00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:34.920 sure to follow us and give us a little rating because over here at the way our vision is to reach 380 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:38.920 every young person with the good news of Jesus and then you're doing that you're partnering with us 381 00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:45.160 to get to that point so bless you guys see you in the next episode