WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.600
Well hello and welcome back to the Wave Podcast. I'm Izzy and I'm Zach and we're here together

2
00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:15.360
cross-legged in our leather jackets together and leather. Oh, ready to speak about one Thessalonians

3
00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:21.840
chapter four. Hooray! Hooray and that means we've done three two and one so make sure you watch them

4
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:29.200
because this is a continuation. It is indeed. Yeah the big good helpful context we speak

5
00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:33.440
about who wrote the thing and we're not going to probably cover that again and then a lot of the

6
00:00:33.440 --> 00:00:38.000
past themes, well it's Paul wrote it but we're not going to give his full context of his life

7
00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:43.760
as we did on chapter one and then this is a continuation of the letter because when he first read

8
00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:48.240
wrote it, gosh when he first wrote this it didn't have numbers and chapters and stuff it was just

9
00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:54.480
one long letter. Hooray! Yes, good point. Thank you but we're going to jump in a chapter four.

10
00:00:54.480 --> 00:01:03.280
Hello, I'm just interrupting the podcast to say thanks for listening and I hope you're enjoying

11
00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:08.000
but we would love that if you're watching on YouTube to give us a like and a subscribe and if

12
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:12.800
you're listening on Apple or Spotify then why don't you give us a follow and then it all rating

13
00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:17.440
because our mission is to share the good news of Jesus with every young person online and you

14
00:01:17.440 --> 00:01:21.120
doing that really helps make that possible but let's get back to the episode.

15
00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:29.680
We are going to read one Thessalonians four from verses one to eight is going to be our first chunk

16
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:36.880
and one to eight I think. Yeah, get reading and see if you're going to be reading. Get reading

17
00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:42.720
and we'll see if that's a good spot. Okay. What translation should we do? Yeah, shout out my ears

18
00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:52.960
I'm an NIV personally but finally then brothers and sisters we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus

19
00:01:53.440 --> 00:01:59.520
that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God just as you are doing

20
00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:07.440
that you do so more and more for you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus

21
00:02:07.520 --> 00:02:14.960
for this is the will of God your sanctification that you obtain obtain abstain that I meant to say

22
00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:24.000
from sexual immorality do not obtain that abstain that each one of you know how to control

23
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:29.520
his own body in holiness and honor not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God

24
00:02:30.640 --> 00:02:36.640
that one that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter because Lord is an

25
00:02:36.640 --> 00:02:43.200
avenger and all these things as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you for God has not

26
00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:52.240
called us for impurity but in holiness therefore whoever disregards this disregards not man but God

27
00:02:52.880 --> 00:02:58.320
who gives his holy spirit to you he's talking quite seriously here is the name yeah also sorry

28
00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:06.320
but the obtain abstain okay yeah yeah what did you what did you notice invest one where it speaks

29
00:03:06.320 --> 00:03:12.000
about how we ask you to live like Jesus and do this like more and more and a lot of this letter is a

30
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:17.680
lot of pull like encouraging them and encouraging them to always love more and do all this good stuff

31
00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:23.680
it's a lot of encouragement but here he is encouraging them again to continue to live like Jesus more

32
00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:28.080
and more which I think is a really good reminder that Christian maturity that is never finished

33
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:35.280
and there's always more to do we can always love more we can always seek more of Jesus and I think

34
00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:40.160
that's a good reminder even when they're being encouraged and that's the context of a lot of this

35
00:03:40.160 --> 00:03:48.320
letter that there's always more we can do there is always more we can do

36
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:59.520
Lord has a lot of teaching bro I was genuinely there's it's interesting how even like he acknowledges

37
00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:05.120
that they're that they're living in it and his courage is encouragement is to do more and more

38
00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:12.320
and then he goes into specifics and the specifics are quite challenging but I think before we get

39
00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:22.880
into the specifics one of the things that I read was that we aren't meant to obtain our own

40
00:04:22.880 --> 00:04:30.400
holiness or sanctification so you see in verse two and three he starts talking about sanctification

41
00:04:30.400 --> 00:04:38.240
which is again that same sort of like if you watched the the last episode on first Thessalonians

42
00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:44.080
chapter three we talk a little bit about holiness and that is to be set apart and so sanctification

43
00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:53.360
is that process and so he's saying that you should be set apart but the the holiness is not achieved

44
00:04:53.840 --> 00:05:00.800
by our own actions much like you'll see in other passages of the Bible the righteousness

45
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:06.160
that we are not righteous on our own but we are righteous because of the faithfulness of Christ

46
00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:13.120
on the cross and we just accept that but I heard it compared to like if you got given a bike

47
00:05:13.840 --> 00:05:22.240
you have in all of your capability the like everything you need to ride a bike and cycle around

48
00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:28.000
but that doesn't mean you still don't have to work at it and figure out how that actually

49
00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:32.720
might work with you putting your feet on the pedals and grabbing the handbars and shifting gears

50
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:39.360
and all that so similarly we have everything within our capability to live like Christ and in his

51
00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:45.520
holiness that doesn't mean that it requires us to do no work we have to work that out for ourselves

52
00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:50.960
we have to practice it's going to take time it's going to take effort but it's fully achievable

53
00:05:50.960 --> 00:05:55.680
Jesus gave us that ability I think that's pretty cool because it's like we have a purpose

54
00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:02.720
and a calling but also recovered by grace yeah yeah and he gives us the resource as well of the Holy

55
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:08.640
Spirit and that's I think spoken about in this chapter a bit as well whereas like he has he has

56
00:06:08.640 --> 00:06:14.400
genuinely given us the resources to be able to abstain from sexual immorality he's given us the

57
00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:22.320
resources to to love people he through the Holy Spirit he makes it possible for us to to do these

58
00:06:22.320 --> 00:06:27.520
things which is nice because it's hard to do it by ourselves which are what things what are the

59
00:06:27.520 --> 00:06:34.240
specifics is he well should we just she was going to the next verses yeah so section morality is

60
00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:39.600
is the one that this one's chatting about this whole section and what does that mean Zach sexual

61
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:48.560
immorality is well being immoral in the area of your sexual life obviously but specifically

62
00:06:49.520 --> 00:06:57.520
obviously specifically the Bible has a specific sexual morality which is the moral law that

63
00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:05.600
God created since the beginning that one man should be with one woman in marriage and

64
00:07:06.320 --> 00:07:13.280
basically practice sex within that so that's a Christian sexual morality yeah whereas you could

65
00:07:13.280 --> 00:07:20.640
have other cultures and belief systems that have different sexual morality yet in a sense so to be

66
00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:30.000
a to be sexually immoral in a Christian sense is to well have sex but I think more specifically

67
00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:41.600
follow the passions of lost or of your body primarily as a way of directing your life yeah I would

68
00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:48.480
say is sexual immorality yeah I think in this the Bible speaks of it it's like any sexual

69
00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:54.960
relation or activity that's outside of marriage which is quiet it's a lot yeah it's a lot

70
00:07:54.960 --> 00:08:00.000
and so and I think in this culture that it's speaking into of this like Roman culture it was marked by

71
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:06.560
a lot of sexual immorality and there was a lot of like the gods and the the culture of the time

72
00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:12.880
in the cities it was it was very very sexual and I think that's not that dissimilar today too

73
00:08:12.880 --> 00:08:18.800
today but I think what I'm speaking about here like if if our sexual behavior is no different to

74
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:25.040
that culture then we're not doing it quite right if we're not the if you can't tell the difference

75
00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:31.040
between what is a Christian where we're meant to be set apart and sanctified compared to the culture

76
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.760
of that time or this time if there's no difference and something's something's not quite

77
00:08:36.800 --> 00:08:43.600
right there which feels quite like a challenge I would say I think that's it's a it's a again we

78
00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:49.840
spoke about in the last chapter about being quite countercultural and like Christians sometimes

79
00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:55.200
you can't always even tell the your Christian I think this is a topic that is still very very

80
00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:01.760
countercultural like um it's very common for but it's normal in in the world to have sex outside

81
00:09:01.760 --> 00:09:09.200
of marriage um and to or it's it's displayed as normal it's it's you know on movies and or just

82
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:14.800
life and friendships and all that stuff like an outside of Christian it's very it's seen as very

83
00:09:14.800 --> 00:09:20.000
normal to have sex and do all this stuff outside of marriage where the Bible speaks about how

84
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.720
that sex was created for this container of marriage and that's how it was designed and God

85
00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:29.920
designed it for our for our pleasure but also for like being free for the multiplying and all that

86
00:09:29.920 --> 00:09:36.000
good stuff but it's very clear that it is within a marriage which is very different to the times

87
00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:44.720
of this but also probably the times of today very different I think it was especially um from from

88
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:52.240
what I understand and from what I've um studied a little bit at university it was particularly

89
00:09:52.320 --> 00:10:02.800
dangerous and damaging back then because things were less clean and because men were in such a role

90
00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:11.440
that um they could essentially just abuse their status symbol in society to um be with as many

91
00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:17.520
women as they want or have as many kids as they want and not face any repercussions this was like

92
00:10:17.520 --> 00:10:25.360
very counter cultural but also protective of women which I think is super cool so this is one of the

93
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:36.800
early um the early signs that like um Jesus teaching is is just so far ahead of the rest of the culture

94
00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:46.000
where again um I think I think uh one of the Jewish laws um they basically the the Pharisees added like

95
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:53.520
600 laws to the Old Testament and one of them was uh recorded that you could leave your wife

96
00:10:53.520 --> 00:11:02.000
if she cooked you a bad meal and then you could go and get with another woman but Jesus and Paul

97
00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:08.320
here is saying like I'll be so screwed there's wait what I'm so about to cook it sorry Karyon

98
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:10.960
wait that's so funny

99
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:13.600
Karyon

100
00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:28.480
I don't try not to try and think of a joke and um yeah dump your ass anyway um uh yeah so like

101
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:36.240
this this whole teaching it really it really protects the family unit it protects cleanliness in a time

102
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:46.080
where sexually transmitted diseases were most likely just quite rampant um uh and and yeah it I guess

103
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:51.040
like you were saying like it's a beautiful thing to have that between someone else and yourself

104
00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:57.520
it's beautiful intimacy but what's what I find especially interesting is even though it was

105
00:11:57.520 --> 00:12:04.560
clear the damages of the time um and this is jumping to the end of what we just read but

106
00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:10.160
Paul makes the claim in verse eight therefore whoever disregards this teaching

107
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:19.680
actually disregards God himself so it's not only a cultural problem or a timely problem

108
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:27.840
where now that things are much cleaner and um you know like I don't know maybe we've we've got

109
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:33.440
contraception now so it's like the repercussions aren't as serious and women are much more valued

110
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:38.480
now than they were back then so they might not be as damaged as they were back then he says no

111
00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:46.400
no it's not cultural so you can't just disregard this because there's less damage this is actually

112
00:12:46.400 --> 00:12:53.040
God's moral law and because of that it's for all places for all time for all people

113
00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:59.200
which is kind of a tough teaching it is and I think he breaks that down more like if we read this

114
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:06.480
if this is still applicable because I think it is um we can look at some of these verses so verse five

115
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:16.960
it says how um it's to not mind says passionate lust like the pagans you also had like the gentiles

116
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:23.840
but basically it's saying like the non-Christians um it says not not do that but instead be wholly

117
00:13:23.920 --> 00:13:29.120
and honorable so it's kind of showing this contrast between wholly and honorable is the opposite of

118
00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:33.760
this like sexual immorality and again a lot of this letter is encouraging them to be wholly

119
00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:38.400
encouraged them to be set apart encourage them to be honorable and then it also goes on to verse six

120
00:13:38.400 --> 00:13:45.920
about how um no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister and I think this is a

121
00:13:45.920 --> 00:13:51.920
really interesting thing as well because there's not just one person in sexual morality there's two

122
00:13:51.920 --> 00:13:57.760
people so we're actually part of how we honor and love the other person is also not letting them

123
00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:05.840
be in this sin either so and I think that's a really like it's I think sometimes it can be easy

124
00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.720
for ourselves to be like oh who cares about like what I do but actually we should care about ourselves

125
00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.200
we should also care about the spiritual holiness and journey of the other person and actually we

126
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.720
don't want to put them in that position we don't want her um yeah bring them immorality we want

127
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:25.360
them to be wholly want them to be honorable and we don't want any of our brothers or sisters because

128
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:33.040
it is both um to to be taken advantage of and I think that's that's a really interesting thought of

129
00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:39.520
as well and I suppose even like in relationships so you're not married but you're dating but you

130
00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:43.840
both really love each other and this kind of a speaking of like okay you love each other but you're

131
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:49.680
not married so what are we doing here if it's outside of marriage it's seen as sexual morality

132
00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:55.040
but this is speaking about how can we not take advantage of our brother or sister so actually if

133
00:14:55.040 --> 00:14:59.360
I truly like if I was loved my partner the most loving thing I could do is to not

134
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:05.520
do sexual stuff with them because that's what makes them the most honorable and holy as well as

135
00:15:05.520 --> 00:15:10.720
myself but because of my love for them I'm not going to do that with them but I think is a real

136
00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:18.160
challenge um and it's it's definitely easier said than done um but I think it's actually really

137
00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:22.640
important and it's important to think of not just yourself but the other person in it as well

138
00:15:22.640 --> 00:15:26.960
because they're also a child of God and I think when you see it in that way and see how God sees

139
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:32.480
them and want them to be holy and honorable and that also adds that a little extra bit of conviction

140
00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:37.440
all this holy spirit nudging you being like maybe you shouldn't be doing this which can be quite

141
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:50.240
helpful hmm anything else you want to add we're well this is this is quite I guess I maybe

142
00:15:51.520 --> 00:16:02.000
there's a more complicated question but it says um not in the passion of lust so essentially

143
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:10.560
not yeah like we are saying before not giving into the desires of our bodies and letting that

144
00:16:10.560 --> 00:16:18.560
govern us but letting the Lord govern us what um where do you draw that line I think that's

145
00:16:18.560 --> 00:16:24.880
something I've always struggled with because you could take that to be super super super strict

146
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:31.600
we're never going to hold hands before we get married or you could take that to the other end

147
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:38.160
and be like well he's only talked about sex so we're going to do bits and and everything up to that

148
00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:44.240
yeah where I know this might be quite personal but where would you draw the line I think my

149
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:51.200
opinion this has changed like over the years where I think the old room getting the more like

150
00:16:51.280 --> 00:17:01.680
strict I'm getting about like very tight boundaries where I want to be like at my wedding day

151
00:17:01.680 --> 00:17:07.920
and being so wholeheartedly knowing they want to marry me and who I am over they wanted

152
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:14.960
they enjoyed doing stuff to my body which sounds dang quite a lot but I want them to love me

153
00:17:15.760 --> 00:17:21.440
and I think I also changed my perspective of like what's the most I can do to not be

154
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:29.040
insin to what's the most I can do to honor God and I think that's a question that I

155
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:35.120
that's a real challenge because then actually some of them quite quickly is like oh I'm actually

156
00:17:35.120 --> 00:17:40.400
not going to do any of that and it's it's kind of working out what I do think is still honorable

157
00:17:41.360 --> 00:17:46.640
instead of what can I get away with and I find that that's a better like mindset for me

158
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:52.880
because it's not about rules or what's right and wrong or getting in trouble or like being found out

159
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:58.720
but instead the mindset is how can I best show my love and honor and obedience to God

160
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:05.360
I like I like what you said about rules there because I agree I don't think it's about rules

161
00:18:05.360 --> 00:18:10.880
and one of the things I've noticed looking at passages like this in the Bible that talk about

162
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:18.800
specifically sexual immorality is you look at in the old law in the Old Testament there's always

163
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:25.760
punishments tied to sexual immorality so if you were to commit an act of sexual immorality

164
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:34.560
you would have to pay the penalty and I guess I want to say this really for anyone who's watching

165
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:43.120
so that they don't feel condemned or like they're like less than because they've done

166
00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:51.040
anything because you'll notice in the New Testament a lot it says the law is now abolished in Christ

167
00:18:51.040 --> 00:18:58.560
and that's because he paid the price so here Paul's not giving a list of laws but he's giving

168
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:10.640
a list of encouragement because our salvation is not tied to our sin but our well-being is so our

169
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:16.400
actions will still we've got a little audience here today and they're just loving it

170
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:25.280
our actions will still have implications right yeah and so yeah it's more of an encouragement

171
00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:30.480
of listen I want you to step into this thing that we call life to the fullest yeah and it's

172
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:37.360
available to you and just keep practicing and you're gonna get there and life's gonna get a lot

173
00:19:37.360 --> 00:19:44.560
better for you but don't worry there's not punishment from God when you mess up he's got love and

174
00:19:44.560 --> 00:19:50.080
grace for you yeah I think there's no consequence to our sin I think it like there's still like

175
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:55.920
yeah there's still consequences sorry yeah that's what I mean in terms of like our actions still

176
00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:01.680
of implication yeah of course you're still gonna you know like I don't know if you do something bad

177
00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:06.160
for example you could still go to jail or even in this like scenario if you sleep with someone then

178
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:10.400
you're then more attached to them you then are more like emotional implications where it becomes

179
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:16.160
messier if you break up and all that stuff and like and you're not quite following how God had

180
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:21.760
it plans of course it can be consequences because it's not how the ideal outline is so there's

181
00:20:21.760 --> 00:20:28.160
still consequences even if there's not that's right clear punishment but I think here Paul is

182
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:33.520
speaking in a way that it seems to also he's trying to prevent sin he's trying to prevent that from

183
00:20:33.520 --> 00:20:40.880
even happening so it is maybe a bit of a correction I'm not sure because I wasn't there but like

184
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:46.240
but I think it's not just a correction but also it's just trying to prevent it and continue to

185
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:51.280
encourage them and living in that way when the culture was so different I like that anything

186
00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:58.000
else you want to say on sexual morality or shall we move on up I think we should move on up

187
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:05.840
towards a destination that's a song sorry yeah it's called move on up do please may you read for

188
00:21:06.800 --> 00:21:15.920
verses nine to twelve totally here we go now concerning brotherly love you have no need for anyone

189
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:23.360
to write to you for you yourselves have been caught taught by God to love one another for that

190
00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:29.840
indeed is what you're doing to all the brothers throughout Macedonia but we urge you brothers to do

191
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:37.120
this more and more and to aspire to live quietly and to mind your own affairs and to work with your

192
00:21:37.120 --> 00:21:44.240
hands as we instructed you so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one

193
00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:50.720
question I feel like you may have actually been the one who told me this okay but is it true

194
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:54.400
that people stopped working because they thought Christ was going to come back I don't know

195
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.040
that was me he said that seriously I heard once I actually don't know if this is true but it just

196
00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:05.440
came to mind that people were actually like in anticipation of Jesus coming back they were they

197
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:10.240
would stop working I could say see that he would just like he was just going to wipe everything

198
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:16.480
away anyways so why like keep living life you know what I mean actually kind of for enough what I

199
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:19.760
kind of like I'm like yeah I can see that mentality I see how you could do that if you thought

200
00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:22.960
you'd come back tomorrow I'd be like why do I have to work hard yeah like what's the point yeah

201
00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:28.560
but I mean if that is true I don't still don't know who said that to me and I think that it wasn't

202
00:22:28.560 --> 00:22:37.680
you but he's like nope keep going with life work buddy yeah well I think that's um I've got a little

203
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.640
note to it manual labor was despised by ancient Greek culture they thought that the better a man was

204
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:48.800
the less he should work whoa in contrast god came as a carpenter king fishermen apostles and

205
00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:54.480
tent-making missionaries thought was a fun little quote but it's basically talking it's crazy yeah

206
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:59.840
work is also God's plan for progress of society and for church and I think it is important for us

207
00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:06.080
to to work and we are his hands and feet that we have we have to do something if Jesus coming back

208
00:23:06.800 --> 00:23:12.080
but also we shouldn't regard God's blessing as an opportunity for laziness like if he gives us

209
00:23:13.040 --> 00:23:18.080
things and he gives us blessings that isn't then permission to be like okay I

210
00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:26.720
don't have to work anymore um so he asks us to work hard what do you think verse 11 means

211
00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:31.600
and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life you should mind your own business

212
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.840
and then work with your hands we're taught like the work of it but what do you mean what do you

213
00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:40.320
think it means to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and to mind your own business I mean

214
00:23:41.280 --> 00:23:48.400
um to be honest I don't have any crazy insight but just what jumps to mind is the picture of

215
00:23:49.040 --> 00:23:55.920
someone who's humbly devoted to doing the best in everything that they're doing

216
00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:02.160
and not making a big show of it yeah um like not needing the recognition kind of like what you're

217
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:10.240
saying um of it being a teaching on status um like I don't I don't know where um

218
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:15.120
Jesus says it but don't he says don't rule it over others when you're a leadership over them

219
00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:21.280
like the Gentiles do um but actually like be a servant hard leader so I think it's like even

220
00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:30.080
even when you become successful even when you work harder than everyone else and potentially

221
00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:35.920
earn more than everyone else do better things than everyone else do it quietly you don't need to

222
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:46.000
shout it in the streets and even like Jesus says that which is whispered in in the back rooms will

223
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:52.720
be shouted from the rooftops um so we'll receive our reward in full for the work that we do

224
00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:58.240
we don't need to try and claim it here on earth um because that'll just fade away

225
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:03.920
some like a humility thing yeah and the mining room business I was like I found that phrase

226
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:06.960
funny is that what you all says and you want the business mind your own business

227
00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:13.600
mind says mind your own affairs um that feels more like official but I suppose it's not meddling

228
00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:19.280
in in the lives of others or maybe it's even comparison or it could be a range of things but

229
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:22.480
I sometimes am not great minding my own business

230
00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:24.480
yes

231
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.880
wait what do you mean you're not good at minding your own business what the heck

232
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:35.360
I was like I'm like I I get so invested in people's lives and so I just want to like

233
00:25:36.320 --> 00:25:40.160
no you're saying you gossip no I don't gossip

234
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.440
could I just say that did I just say that I just like to know information

235
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:47.760
maybe I like people to gossip to me maybe that's different but I don't

236
00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:52.560
like to fear gossip do you pass it on no I was like being a fountain of all knowledge

237
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:59.440
you don't pass it on really not really I think there's nothing to do with like

238
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:05.280
anything to do with me I'm not there's no need to speak about it if it's to do with me then I'll

239
00:26:05.280 --> 00:26:09.920
process it with people but anyway short story long

240
00:26:10.080 --> 00:26:17.040
like I don't think I'm always I get very concerned like what other people's blessings what's

241
00:26:17.040 --> 00:26:21.360
going on in other people's worlds like what are they doing what's their work like are they

242
00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:27.280
working hard enough am I working more than them am I like trying to sort out their life for them

243
00:26:27.280 --> 00:26:33.520
am I um all the information I know about them can I you know sort them out or be involved in

244
00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:37.600
some way and I think sometimes I get a bit too involved in other people's lives and I just

245
00:26:37.600 --> 00:26:45.520
need to know my my business my business my my business there we go that was unnecessary

246
00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:55.120
disclosure of me um show me one sure please no we read 13 to the end 13 to the end here we go

247
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:01.920
ooh it's subtitled in my Bible the coming of the Lord mine says believers who have died what

248
00:27:02.800 --> 00:27:09.440
that's the subtitle okay this might be interesting but we do not want you to be uninformed

249
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:15.440
brothers about those who are asleep that you may not grieve as others do and have no hope

250
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:23.040
for since we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so through Jesus God will bring with him

251
00:27:23.040 --> 00:27:30.560
those who have fallen asleep for this we declare to you by a word from the Lord

252
00:27:30.560 --> 00:27:37.680
that we who are alive who are left until the coming of the Lord will not proceed those who have

253
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:44.560
fallen asleep interesting the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command

254
00:27:45.280 --> 00:27:52.960
with the voice of an arc angel and with the sound of the trumpet of God why did you look at me like

255
00:27:53.040 --> 00:28:00.560
because I played a trumpet I got excited carry on and the dead in Christ will rise first

256
00:28:00.560 --> 00:28:05.360
then we who are alive who are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the

257
00:28:05.360 --> 00:28:11.280
Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord therefore encourage one another with these

258
00:28:11.280 --> 00:28:17.520
words okay this sounds a little bit um it's doing loom what the heck it's a little bit wacky isn't it

259
00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:22.800
really what's the chat about tell me that's the actual question what's the chat about I find

260
00:28:22.800 --> 00:28:31.600
this all a bit confusing right okay um so remember people for the last two thousand years have

261
00:28:31.600 --> 00:28:38.240
always thought that they're the generation who are going to see Jesus return okay especially the

262
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:44.080
first people because Jesus said some very confusing things including this generation will not pass

263
00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:50.080
away before I return and so they literally thought Jesus was going to come in their lifetimes

264
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:57.600
makes sense so they're concerned because there was there was the common thought that when he

265
00:28:57.600 --> 00:29:02.640
returned everyone who had died and believed in him would then raise from the dead and be brought

266
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:10.800
back to eternal life on earth and and so they're concerned like say you die and I'm like wait

267
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:17.360
Jesus hasn't returned yet and what's going to happen to Izzy because now she's now she's dead

268
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:26.160
um so basically he's a he's addressing that does it was that it was that okay and then and then

269
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:34.800
the way he explains it is by explaining that those who are dead when Christ returns will be raised

270
00:29:34.800 --> 00:29:42.480
from the grave before those who are on earth get raised up to heaven so if you die and you believe

271
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:48.080
in Christ and I'm still alive Jesus comes back you're going to join the everlasting life first

272
00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:55.200
is essentially what he's saying as what proceed precede means so you're going to come come before

273
00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:00.400
into the new life and then those who are still alive will then be swept up so like when he says

274
00:30:01.280 --> 00:30:09.200
um in in the first verse that we read there verse 13 he talks about that you may not grieve as

275
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:16.320
others do yeah so that's that hope that you don't have to grieve that others are are dead and

276
00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:19.840
you're never going to see them again because they died before Jesus came back because

277
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:25.680
they're in now with Jesus as we would as we would say in modern language um like

278
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:32.800
were there I guess I guess it's a way of explaining that they're already with Christ and we're

279
00:30:32.800 --> 00:30:41.760
going to go be with them as well so it's it's not as sad it's still very sad well I suppose even

280
00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:46.320
to make this relevant for like now and today I guess when Christians die we're more like we're

281
00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:52.240
mourning we're mourning but like there with Jesus so actually we have a hope so I guess this

282
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:55.840
little chunk when I was like reading it where I was like I actually don't understand the ins and

283
00:30:55.840 --> 00:31:01.200
outs of what's being spoken about here the ins and the outs but I actually don't think that matters

284
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:06.400
that I don't think we necessarily need to know how it all works and the details of how it's

285
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:12.480
handled but I think what it's basically saying is Jesus has got this handled and we've got hope that

286
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:20.560
he's we've got hope and he's got it covered and when people pass like we can still have hope

287
00:31:20.560 --> 00:31:25.120
because they are with Jesus and it is but it's more we're mourning them but we're not

288
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:31.360
but for ourselves more than mourning them if it makes sense it's like missing them yeah yeah

289
00:31:31.360 --> 00:31:35.920
but I think it's an interesting thing I think death can be a real it's a real tricky thing because

290
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:42.000
it's it's so hard and this is kind of speaking a little bit into that which is like we still have

291
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:55.520
hope in Jesus even when people pass away yeah I just got reminded of the last episode that we did

292
00:31:55.520 --> 00:31:59.600
where we promised we'd talk about the second coming of Christ oh yeah completely forgot we said

293
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:08.720
I have some notes on that okay go ahead it says in verse 15

294
00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:18.000
for this we declare to you by a word from the Lord that we who are alive who are left

295
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:25.440
until the coming of the Lord will not proceed though so that word the coming is is usually like

296
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:36.320
the biblical word for Jesus returning and the word is is is is is based on a root word which

297
00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:43.040
is to be present so it's essentially saying that Jesus will be present again which is pretty obvious

298
00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:50.640
but if you look at the way it was often used in the time of this text being written it would refer

299
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:59.280
to a king who had captured a land riding into the land so it's like the inauguration of a new

300
00:32:59.280 --> 00:33:05.680
era or a new government inauguration inauguration yeah what I don't know what that means

301
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:15.440
it's yeah the same as like a new president being voted in or like it's like new rulership new

302
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:21.280
government that sort of thing which I think explains it pretty well because even though

303
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:28.400
Jesus dying on the cross was probably the most well I would consider the most significant event

304
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:36.000
in world history currently it's not the climax of the whole story the climax of the whole

305
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:42.800
story is Jesus coming a second time he talks about that a little in the gospel of Matthew before

306
00:33:42.800 --> 00:33:49.520
he dips from his disciples but he's basically going to come again he's going to overthrow

307
00:33:49.520 --> 00:33:55.520
the government that currently stands not the physical government but the spiritual government which

308
00:33:55.520 --> 00:34:01.520
is the enemy that is currently running rampant through the world and trying to cause destruction

309
00:34:01.520 --> 00:34:07.040
and death and evil he's going to overthrow him it's going to be super exciting it's going to be

310
00:34:07.040 --> 00:34:11.920
like big and flashy it's not going to be like the manger birth which is super quiet and lowly

311
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:17.680
Jesus going to come in right in a stallion and he's going to put some some enemy in their place

312
00:34:17.680 --> 00:34:24.960
and he's just going to like yeah take control and it's going to be sick crazy yeah I think aside from

313
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:32.320
that like there's a lot of debate of what's going to really happen yeah but I'd say that's pretty

314
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:37.280
set in stone in terms of the wide wide a Christian understanding of what's going to happen and

315
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:41.840
that's a lot of like what the book of Revelation is about right that's right again depending on

316
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:48.320
your view of how you would read that but yes that's quite again quite a controversial text you

317
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:52.480
can tell you study theology it's quite helpful isn't it well brings more questions than answers

318
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:57.280
yeah yeah well I've got any more answers for this section or is that what you've got because I've

319
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:08.160
got absolutely milk well yes so I guess also on that again what's something I didn't know before

320
00:35:08.160 --> 00:35:17.680
I was studying theology was that that idea that there are several ways of viewing the end times

321
00:35:17.680 --> 00:35:26.560
I thought it was just one reading and and there was no kind of contention on over over what was

322
00:35:26.560 --> 00:35:33.600
expected to happen but it's actually very ambiguous so I would encourage you before you kind of like

323
00:35:33.600 --> 00:35:39.600
form your view because it can be quite scary reading some of this stuff yeah go go get a few

324
00:35:39.600 --> 00:35:46.160
different opinions and the book I'm really enjoying reading at the moment is discipleship on the

325
00:35:46.160 --> 00:35:52.480
edge from Darryl Johnson where he treats the whole book of Revelation as a discipleship manual

326
00:35:53.200 --> 00:35:58.480
through the end times essentially which is quite interesting so I would encourage

327
00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:02.400
people to read that if you want to go a little bit deeper it's a great book

328
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:08.000
but it's kind of funny because one of the words you'll hear tossed around is the rapture

329
00:36:08.080 --> 00:36:21.440
sure and rapture is is actually a translation into Latin and then into English of verse 17 I believe it

330
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:29.280
is yeah we will be caught up together so that word I'm caught up I'm not going to pronounce it but

331
00:36:30.160 --> 00:36:36.320
there's a Greek word there which is almost translates if you were to translate it directly into

332
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:44.400
English is to claim something for oneself so we will be claimed for Christ Jesus when he returns

333
00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:50.320
that's what people then call the rapture so that's just like one of the words that you should

334
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:57.200
run around that's maybe not as doesn't need to be as complicated as it is yeah or as specific

335
00:36:57.200 --> 00:37:04.560
and divisive as it is often but go all of that say go do some research because there's so much

336
00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:10.960
depth to this and it's so fun like it's genuinely really fun oh there you go sorry a bit of a

337
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:18.960
bit of a ramble of again more questions than answers slightly but that's okay um right I

338
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:23.680
thought that was one Thessalonians four I thought we also covered quite a range of topics from

339
00:37:24.640 --> 00:37:33.920
section morality to the rapture but that's all for today and next time you should join us for

340
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:43.120
one Thessalonians five where this will continue and their four end series but for now goodbye dude wait

341
00:37:43.120 --> 00:37:49.440
how sorry your knees right now oh my gosh I am in so much pain right here like what's this

342
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:53.280
was yeah I know right I'm forced my quads are stretched anyway

343
00:37:55.040 --> 00:37:58.720
emoji I would like you to leave a winky face emoji what

344
00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:03.680
like little like nod to section morality but not too much of a nod

345
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:11.360
that were a gravestone that felt more appropriate no no no no we're gonna do something more

346
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:16.640
like gravestone just because you said that we're gonna go full Christian I want you to put the

347
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:23.600
um gospel chapel emoji which is little church and crossroad and a wink and a grave

348
00:38:26.240 --> 00:38:29.120
bye for now

349
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:37.200
oh my gosh