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Hello and welcome to the recipe brought to you by Flipper Barrier. I'm your host, Thea Randall,

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chef patron at Thea Randall Katrina Taliana. From her time as executive chef and the heart of

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the Marrakesh Medina, to her new cookbook, Madak, she has spent a decade bringing a breath of

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fresh air to the Moroccan table. Please welcome Najee's Ben Kabou.

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Now I guess it's a real pleasure to have you here. Thanks so much for having me.

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This show is all about recipes that tell a story, recipes that have meaning. What are you

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going to cook for us today? So I'm going to make a Thai bohèri to a salad. A Thai bohèri?

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Yes, exactly. So Thai bohèri is a street food snack that we have in Morocco that has existed

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for many, many, many years. That I've been eating with my mom since I was a little child. So I know

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beans and chickpeas are having a moment. But for us in Morocco, it's something we eat every day.

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My book is all about taking Moroccan flavors and making them more portable. And I wanted to see

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think about how can I use Thai bohèri in a way that feels very natural. And for me, a tuna salad was

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was the way. So Thai bohèri means what? Is it what exactly is it? So Thai means cooked?

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Yeah. And Thai means spiced. So to be anything?

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Yes. No. It's about chickpeas. So when we say Thai bohèri in Morocco, we know we're talking about

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chickpeas. And basically it's the most simple and the most humble recipe you'll ever find.

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In Morocco, we take the chickpeas. We soak them for 12 hours. And then we cook them on very,

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very low heat for hours until they're soft. And the street food vendor will have giant pot with him.

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And then you go there and you ask for the chickpeas. You either either have them in a bowl with a

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bit of the water from the chickpeas, the cooking water, or drained in a cone. And then you will tell

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the vendor whether you want them super spiced, a little bit spiced. And that's where the

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honey comes from. I see. I think about chickpeas is, you know, there are seasons to chickpeas.

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So obviously when you buy chickpeas, it's very important to get that year's product. Because

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I always find there's nothing worse in having cooking old chickpeas. You soak them overnight.

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And then you try and cook them. And they never cook. Or they just take for hours and hours

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cook. And they're bitter too. They're the bitter, yeah. So it's very important to get good

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called chickpeas. I would always like to go for the dried one. If you can cook them at home,

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it's even better. But if you want to use already cooked ones, the dried ones are usually better.

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Jod chickpeas are so much easier. And they taste amazing. And they're always huge. And creamy.

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So big fan of Jod chickpeas. So is this from your new book? It is from my new book,

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Madag that I mentioned earlier. And the Madag is all about bringing work in

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favourites to your home in a way that doesn't feel overwhelming. That is approachable. It has a

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lot of pasta. There's a taco recipe. There's also some very traditional chicken recipes. But

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what they have in common, all the recipes in the book is that they're not overwhelming.

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Very approachable. These ingredients that you will find out to your near supermarket,

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you don't need to order things online, especially now, that we have preserved lemons and

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herries everywhere. And there's a lot of bold flavours. I like to think that I'm a flavour chaser.

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When I develop a recipe, whether it's for a restaurant or for home cooks, I like to make sure

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that the flavours are there and they're bold. I hate plant food. And it's just a book that will

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allow you to discover those trademark Moroccan flavours that people don't really know. I feel like

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people think Moroccan food is a lot of heavily spiced or big greasy food like the jeans,

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lots of prunes and nuts, which is not false. We do have that. But that is maybe 5% of our

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cuisine. And I wanted to show the fresh, accessible everyday cooking side, the salads, the vibrant

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vegetables, the fish recipes that we have. And I hope I managed to do it. Do you think Moroccan

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food is a bit misunderstood in this country? Yes, but it's a good thing and a bad thing.

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Yeah. So it's a good thing because when I, so I was born in recent Brussels, I'm Belgian and Moroccan.

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But I consider myself more Moroccan than anything else in my hundreds of identities that I have.

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And I lived in Paris for two years before I moved to London 15 years ago. And when I moved here,

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I would tell people that I'm from Morocco, I would see people's eyes like, you know, bright and

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like, wow, I love Morocco. I was there for exotic. Whereas in Belgium and in France, it would be,

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okay, just because it's so common. There's nothing wrong with that reaction. There's a huge

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North African community in Belgium and in France. So obviously it's not as exotic and as attractive.

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And that made me feel so good about myself because when you're the child of an immigrant and you

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go somewhere and people love or you're from, it's really cool. So I love that and I love to

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introduce those flavors to Morocco. But then another thing that I found here in the UK is that people

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didn't really know. I think it's improving. But I would say 10 years ago, people still didn't

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really know Moroccan food. They're not sure it's in North Africa. They think it's part of the

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Arab world, which is fine. Now, I wouldn't know the difference between the food from Uzbekistan

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and Kazakhstan. So there's nothing wrong with that. But I would say I'm from Morocco and when

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people would say, I love Hamuz and I love Tabule and I would say, well, me too, but it's not Moroccan.

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And I remember one day I had to like, almost had an argument with someone because they didn't

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believe me when I thought that Hamuz is not Moroccan. And then she was like, no, no, no, no, I

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went to a Moroccan restaurant and I didn't have Hamuz. I said, I know it's not Moroccan. Anyway,

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when I decided to focus on food and have a career in the food industry, I wanted to just focus on

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that and be able to inform people on the differences between the listed food and North African food

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and just highlight in the Moroccan food. But you started off doing a degree in politics?

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Yes, in public policy. And that sort of led you to, well, I mean, you'd be worked in that field,

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did you? I did. So I did event management and I did CSR, which is corporate social responsibility.

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And I found myself doing more PR in events than actually changing the world because that's what I

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wanted to do at the time. And I think I really disliked the corporate world. I never found myself

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comfortable. You don't try me as a corporate person? Yes. And the corporate game of speaking to

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the right people because you want that job and that opportunity. It's just I did not enjoy that.

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And I was very lucky to have a very supportive husband who encouraged me to pursue my dreams.

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So I went to Leith and here we are. Leith's Cookery School. Yes. Fantastic. I've had a lot of

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chefs from Leiths and what's wonderful about Leith's Cookery School is generally people that go

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there tend to sort of change their career or they've got a new direction in their life. And so

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they want to get into cooking. And it's a brilliant school. I loved it. It was a wonderful experience.

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And that's what made me want to be around food and work in this industry. I think after a week

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there I was exhausted, but I told my husband, this is what I want to do. It's cool. I'm just

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playing with ingredients all day long and I like the pressure of it. And I love the fact that

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I'm constantly learning new things. I was raised in a very traditional work and household where

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the only person that cooks is the mother. Okay. So my father was a great cook. Yeah. But it was very

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traditional structure where the wife's going to cook. The husband brings the money and the

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kids just eat at home. And I remember when I was a teenager and I would make pasta. My father

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wouldn't really trust that it's good because it's like on your mom that's how to cook.

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So I started cooking when I left my parents' place. Interesting. And I went to Paris for

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tears and moved to London. And in Paris I met this great group of friends, of girlfriends,

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and we had a weekly dinner and everyone was cooking from their home country. And on my turn came

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I realized I had no idea how to cook. I can't know how to make pastime eggs but I didn't know how

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to make it to Jean or traditional couscous. But she was only a wanted you to show off. Yeah. So I

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skyped my mom. Yeah. At the time we used to skype and she gave me all the instructions and I made

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my first couscous. And in more couscous it's not what we know as the taboole salad. It's like a whole

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complete dish with Simolina that's cooked on top of a big pot of vegetables and meat. And then we

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sort of serve all the Simolina grains, the couscous at the bottom of a large plate and then we top it

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with the meat, the vegetables, and the juices from the cooking pot. And that takes a long time to

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make it back. Yeah. But everybody loved it and it really made me fall in love with feeding people.

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Yeah. And that reaction of someone taking the first bite and having a smile on their face,

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I'm like, oh my god, it's so good. I want more. And also my brain went, wow, this is exactly how

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my mom makes it. Like it was the exact same flavors. You know when your taste buds sort of

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recognize the flavor profile. And then ever since I started cooking, so at that time when I left

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myself. That was the moment. And I became the friend that cooks for everyone. We'll talk about

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cooking. I'm getting hungry. I think we should start cooking now. Yes, let's go.

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Okay, so let's start cooking this Thai abahari. Let's do it. How do I pronounce it? Okay.

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That's perfect. Oh, great. Very Moroccan. Okay. I'm going to ask you to chop about half of this

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onion dice piece. And I'm going to get started with the dressing and something that we have that

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actually does not exist in Morocco. That's pretty important in cooking. I think is that different

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kinds of vinegars. And Morocco, we have only one type of vinegar. It's the white vinegar and it's

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not white wine vinegar. It's not wine, is it? And I think it's a shame. That's why in my recipes,

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I use a lot of white wine vinegar. But how do they produce, they make wine in Morocco, didn't they?

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As you know, Morocco is a Muslim country. Yes, of course. So it's still not very common to use

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like wine vinegar in everyday cooking. Sure. So the vinegar you can find in Morocco is very

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basic. It's really good. It's a vinegar that comes in a little squeezed bottle. You just like

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break the cap and then you keep it in your cupboard all the time and just squeeze it. It's delicious.

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And it's the vinegar they use everywhere in Morocco for all kinds of cooking. You said early on it,

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you didn't really learn how to cook until you left home. But you must have picked up so many little

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tips from your mother cooking. I mean, obviously flavor is one thing you're always going to remember

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having those early memories of how things should taste. Did you find it difficult when you

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went to Leiths to actually sort of do all the cooking? Because I mean, Leiths quite intense. You

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do a lot of pastry, you do knife skills. I mean, they teach you how to run a restaurant essentially.

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It's really interesting you say that and thank you for this question because it reminds me that

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although I was never in charge of seasoning the food and putting it on the table. But my mom made

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me do a lot of jobs. I would go with her to the abattoir, which is like the slaughterhouse in

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some days. And then we would buy life chickens and then she would slaughter them. I would help her

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do that at home. Yeah, at home. Yeah, we had a big house in Brussels with a bit like a big

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thing near the past. This is in Brussels. This is in Brussels, yeah. Wow. So I'm intrigued. The

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market, which market is this? It's abattoir in Brussels. There's like one big one in the south

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side of the city. What, you take all the animals home and kill myself? Well, it was coming to take

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chickens and then they would like pack them in like cardboard boxes. Yeah. And then they would

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take them in the in the tram and then have the life chicken to make sounds in the train.

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And then your mom would take it. And then she would slaughter them. And then I did a lot of

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different things. Like I helped with like plucking the feather from the chicken. Yeah.

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Devaining shrimps, obviously peeling vegetables. Yeah. I did a lot of jobs like that. So

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when I went to leave, I was not scared but like a raw piece of chicken or meat. Because some of my

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friends were, they found it really odd to like be touching raw meat. So after leave, I took a lot

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of time trying to think about what would be my next step, what I want to do. And I knew that I

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wanted to focus on Moroccan food. Because when you are the child of an immigrant, you want to

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find ways to remain close to your roots. And for me, focusing on Moroccan food made a lot of

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sense. It also loved how people were excited about Morocco and the UK versus Belgium or Afghans.

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So for me, it made a lot of sense. And I was trying to think about what can I do and I had lots

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of ideas. I could do supper clubs. I can do pop-ups or I can do cooking classes. But I wanted to

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start with the blog first because at the time it was really common. I've seen so many people

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launching blogs and I thought, well, maybe that could be me. It started cooking at home and writing

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a little post that didn't make any sense with my English. It was not as good as today or not. It's

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not great. But definitely my writing skills were great. And I said a lot of silly things. But I

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would just talk about my life and why I chose to do a recipe and how I came to modernize it.

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And at the time, I was trying to do the same thing. I was just trying to make people more familiar

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with Moroccan food and Moroccan favourites and ingredients. And you obviously got great feedback

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because it was very incredibly popular. Lots of people didn't necessarily know much about Moroccan

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food but you taught them how to all about the ingredients and the spices and actually bringing

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that whole cuisine to sort of life. I think also I think I started at the right time.

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At the time, Instagram was fairly new. There were not a lot of people sharing more

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acne recipes. So I think it sort of allowed me to get a good amount of followers and a good

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interest from people all over the world, whether in the US or in the UK. And from that, I had a book

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deal. You got a book deal from that. And that's when you wrote your first book, Casablanca. Exactly.

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So I wrote Casablanca. But I would say the main difference. So Casablanca was in 2016 and I

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started writing it. I think in 2015. So it's been over 10 years. And the great thing about

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Madak is that the book really benefits from my 10 years plus of cooking experience and being a

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chef that's more grounded because you know you grow with life. We make mistakes, we learn.

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And I think when I started, obviously I knew I wanted to focus on Moroccan food,

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but I was trying a lot of different things. Now I feel really grounded. I know what I want.

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So for me, Madak is really the culmination of all the tips and the tricks that I've learned.

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And I hope people will be able to see that in the book. How the recipes have been tested by me

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obviously, but by someone else. So your first job was not a small job. It was executive

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chef of La Mida. Of La Mida, yeah. I think I was maybe at the right place at the right time

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where I got really lucky. But I got a DM on my Instagram of one of the founders of La Mida.

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I think we did a few calls and then they obviously wanted to try my food. And I think at the time,

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I didn't think I could, like I didn't consider that I could be a chef and I could work.

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I was still fairly young, but obviously I was honored by the opportunity and I took it as a

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challenge. And they came for a tasting and I think they liked my food because they hired me.

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And then from then we started working about the concepts of the menu. And I think they really

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enjoyed my London perspective because the restaurant was for tourists because it's in the

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Sook in Jamal Fnein Morocco. So out to 70%, 80% of the people who come, there are either

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expats or people visiting where I cashed. So they wanted to have that contemporary,

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fresher perspective and I think it worked pretty well. I have to say it's very good on

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less. I'd think of you to be doing it because you could have gone for a big name chef that

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from Morocco. And the fact that they used you who had this sort of new style of Moroccan food,

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for everyone. I think they really liked how I modern Moroccan food. I modernize Moroccan food

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because I don't, I mean, when I try and modernize a dish, for instance, for this salad,

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it was not about doing something cool or Western with type of honey, it was about how can I

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take these beautiful chickpeas that are, that is a street food that's a very humble street food in

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Morocco. And then how can I incorporate it in everyday life? I think sometimes when fusion

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cooking, chefs can go a bit too far. And sometimes you sort of lose the story, you lose the

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soul of the dish that was supposed to be the star of the show. Being a sexive chef of a kitchen,

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you know, you've got to look after, you've got to, you know, make sure all the chefs are working

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and follow your recipe. How did you find that? Chef's going to be quite difficult.

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Well, the chef, the head chef there was great. I have to say it's my man. He was really good.

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And he really understood what I was trying to do and he was also very respectful of

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the boundaries of you are, you have the vision. These are your recipes. And I'm not going to try and

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do them differently, which is very important because sometimes you can be involved or just

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lack of understanding. So he was really, really good. But I did face a bit of challenges with the

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rest of the team just because it was very new. And sometimes, and a lot of the chefs that I trained

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in Morocco are French trained. And in a way that is very, very old-fashioned and very old-style.

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So when I would tell them, you know, we're not trying to, like, the carrots are not met at each other,

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you know, like, they can come together. And the way I played food is very simple. And I'm not

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a fine dining chef. I don't have that background. So I make food that you could eat at home. And

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that is more elevated. But it remains food that is simple, right? And the way I dress is also very

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simple. And they had a hard time with that. Why is it so simple? Why was just,

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why I'm not trying to make the plate look more fancy? They want to put garnishes on sort of

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making a bit easier. Exactly. And then I had a hard time with that. I would tell them, no,

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for instance, there was a dish, the pastilla. And I really wanted to serve it in the most

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simplest way, which is make the pastilla, which is a phylo pie, right? But they wanted to add

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salads, like little parsley. And I would like to fight for this kind of thing. So yeah.

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But you got your way. Yeah, what's that? So now you're doing a residency, a host of the

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Laddid at the Pilgrim in London. Laddid is my dream restaurant. It means delicious in Moroccan,

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in Moroccan Arabic, because like I said, I love to taste flavor. And I like to make food

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delicious. And I'm serving dishes that are very contemporary, but also very, very Moroccan.

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It's a bit of a small menu, but it has a lot of different flavor profiles. There's something very

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acidic, something generous. There's a Tijjian that everybody loves. There's a carrot dish that

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everybody loves that's also in the book. There's a company. I saw that. Yeah, it looks delicious.

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It's roasted carrots. Roasted harissa carrots. Yeah. Glazed with maple syrup and then served on

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levney. Yeah. And olives. Really, really good. Yeah. So I'm going back to the, when you're

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telling us about a chicken, you get, you know, there's a lot of recipes in there which are vegan

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and vegetarian. I mean, over 60%. Yes. And it's not something, like it's not something that was

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intentional. In Morocco, we have a lot of branchy food, love breakfast food. And there's a whole

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chapter for that. So that I guess will be mostly vegetarian. Yeah. I would include lots of eggs.

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There's that good porridge, tray bakes. And then we have two vegetarian chapters. One is called

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small plates. And it's basically entrees or sides. You have a vegetarian tray bake. And there's

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lots of vegetarians in that chapter as well. So you were talking about Tijjians and how, you know,

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if you never get a rocker, you always spend up on it and we're Tijjian from the market. But you

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don't use Morocco. So the Moroccan cook who wants to put food on their table for their family,

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you know, in two hours will not use a Tijjian pot. Because Tijjian pot are very fragile,

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they break. And they're designed to be put into it and oven into the, you know, the ashes of a

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fire. Yeah. Very, very low heat. Very low heat. And that can take three to four hours. So we don't

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have time for that. So what most people do, they would either use a pan like this one or they

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would use a pressure cooker. Okay. And that's what 90% of the people use. I have nine

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cheese on my dad's side and five on my mom's side. Wow. And all of them, some of them don't even

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own a Tijjian pot. Yeah. Like a traditional one. And those who do, they would make it like my mom,

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she makes a traditional Tijjian in a clay pot, like maybe once a month on the Sunday, you know,

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like as a treat and she lived it for hours. But otherwise, no, you don't, you don't need to use

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that. And that's what I tell people. And sometimes it might sound a bit contradictive that I would

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tell people, though you use something rock and to make more of your food. But that's the reality.

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If you want to make a wok, you don't always have a wok at home. But you can make something

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similar in a large pan, right? Maybe it makes me laugh because so many people buy Tijjians and take

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them home. Yeah. And usually usually you're left on the shelf. So how is your cooking style changed

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since your first book, Casablanca, to now? Do you feel like you've evolved? Do you feel like

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you're cooking more for the UK palette? I like to think I make food for everyone. So obviously,

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I'm in the UK. I'm very much influenced by the food scene here, which I think is one of the

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best in the world. But I think everyone, nowadays, with our big, comoroccan ingredients in supermarkets,

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I think everyone can make my recipes. But I think the way it has changed is that there's a common

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thread that follows every single recipe. Whereas before, I was a bit all over the place trying to

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do a bit of that. Whereas today, it's more grounded and more consistent in quality as well.

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And your pop-up at the moment, what was the kind of key behind it? Was it they asked you to do

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do a residency and you kind of came up with the menu and they liked it or? So yeah, so Lidita is

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a concept of a restaurant that I've been working on for the past three years. Yeah. And it's basically

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a moroccan tapas place where you can have a lot of small plates. Yeah, a lot of small plates.

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And for instance, I serve something called Serruda with Morgasmins. Serruda is a cheek pea puree

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that I serve with the Morgasmins that I make from scratch every time I serve it. Yeah.

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Something that is not as popular or people are not familiar with, it's a cinnamon.

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Some cinnamon is a flaky bread that we make in moroccan. That's very similar to paratha,

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but we make it with similar enough flour. Something that it's used a lot in Italian cooking.

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So did it be like like brick pastry or is it a? No, no, it's not. It's like a paratha. So we made

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the dough with similar now flour and flour. Yeah. Then we take a small bowl dough, then we spread it

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with oil as thin as we can and then we fold it like paratha. Okay, right. And then you cook it on

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like a like a flat bread. Exactly. And it sort of paves and it's perfectly

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a key. And I serve it with a smoked harissa cultured butter. Yeah. And people love it. Yeah,

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sounds interesting. Because it's very unusual. It's paratha, but it's more nutty with the semolina.

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And it's so nice to see people being excited to keep ordering the bread. I love it. Because I'm

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interested in something that I don't know for morocco. So what's the sort of most popular dish in

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your pop-up moment? Oh God, I think it's hard. I would say the Tijine. Everybody loves the Tijine.

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It's funny. So you go back to Tijine. I mean, you know, we talk about Moroccan food, everyone

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known as Tijine, but a chicken Tijine with preserved lemon and olives is one of the most delicious

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things. I agree. To eat with couscous. I agree. Yeah, the Tijine I serve at the pop-up is what we

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call a lamb McFool. Okay. McFool means locked. Yeah. And the meat is cooked underneath a layer of

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onions and tomatoes. And when it's served, well, obviously the lamb is super tender. And then

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the onions and the tomatoes are very jammy and soft. And there's lots of spices. There's

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saffron, turmeric, ginger, and it cooks for four hours. And people really like that. But I think

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maybe because it's one of the only main, whereas the other tapas, there's something for everyone.

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Yeah, sure. There's a spoon, which is like ricotta that we make in Morocco, but with buttermilk.

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So it's a bit acidic and I serve it with black garlic. Do you add lemon to that or vinegar to make it?

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Yes, that's what I do. Yeah. Exactly. That's what I do. And I serve it with a tahini and black

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garlic mullsion. So that's a very pungent favorite profile. And we have this outlook that I

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mentioned, which is more sweet and herby. So that's something for everyone. Yeah. And it's great.

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I love it. Amazing. Well, all this talk about food is making me really hungry. So I think we

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should go and devour your delicious-looking dish. Thank you.

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I guess this smells and looks delicious. I'm going to help myself. I hope you enjoy it.

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Yeah, I'm sure I will. Look at this. Look at that egg and the cheese. And something I meant to say,

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obviously the star of the show are the chickpeas. But if you don't like chickpeas, you can also use

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any kind of beans that you like. We're going to serve you as well. Thank you so much. We've been mum.

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Thank you. But what I like about this dish is it's kind of so easy to replicate. And it doesn't

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require a lot of cooking. Cooking the chickpeas and getting all those lovely spices in there,

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but I'm very simple, but lovely dish. We're really lovely sort of summary. It's fresh.

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It's fresh. And a lunch. Yeah, and I like to, you've noticed.

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Oh, what? That's amazing. I don't know if you've noticed, but I also have a bit of coriander mixed

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with the salad. The coriander makes it. It's something that I love to do when I make a salad.

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I always add some herbs, very roughly chopped, mixed with the leaves. It adds a bit of freshness

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and fragrance. Your seasoning is fantastic. I mean, it's got the coming jumps out. We've got

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the olives, tasty paprika. I mean, it's just wonderful. Thank you. I was not very confident in

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my skills to cook and talk and be filmed at the same time. Are you making me feel very natural?

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You're very natural. I read all the comments on the recipes that I develop and sometimes people say,

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oh, I cooked this and then there was no flavor. And half of the time it's because the spices are not

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good. And I think it's not enough. Yeah. Information about how long one should keep spices in

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their cupboard. And I always say if you open the jar and there's no smell, sorry, then it should

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go in the bin. Because when you, you know, the spices should have a smell. When you open it,

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it should make you feel something. You should recognize which spice you're having in front of you.

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And I feel like it's such a shame because people would like to spend ingredients on meat and

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ingredients and then use spices that are not good and then the results end up being very disappointing.

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Madak is coming out when? It's coming out on the 9th of April. Very excited about it. Yes,

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I hope people will be pleased with the recipes and they will feel how much love there is in the book

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and how it's rooted in more contradiction that are really made for everyday cooking. It really

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is a beautiful book. I mean, every recipe has a photograph. You know what? It reminds me, which is

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this is a compliment, non-negative. It's kind of quite 1970s in the style and the way

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it looks, because it's just like the government. It's a great ear of a cookbook, you know,

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was all about showing people what the dish looked like and I think it's a very inspirational book

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and I can't wait to cook for them. Thank you so much. So we have a question from one of our

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viewers. What is your guilty food pleasure? So I have a problem. I love chocolate. Yeah, me too.

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I'm a chocolate. Are you a dark chocolate or a milk chocolate? So I'm either dark

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or a milk that has a lot of coconut. You're like me. So I like a chocolate. I like a milk

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chocolate. There's 48% cocoa solids. When you have that kind of chocolate, it is incredible.

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Yeah. So that's your guilty food pleasure. Dark milk chocolate. Yeah, the moment I'm very

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much into it. I don't know if I can mention brands, but I love the Chocoloni with pretzels.

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Okay. It's the only one. That's a dark milk. Can I find it too sweet?

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It's a dark milk. Have you tried it? Oh, no. No, it's not the milk chocolate. Okay. So it's

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milk chocolate, but it's not a completely milk chocolate. It has 47% milk solids. Wow,

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we're going to go and buy some pretzels. So we have the salt. So that's my guilty pleasure and

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when I come back from my pop-up, God. Is that what you have? That's not good. Coffee?

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No, I don't drink coffee. You don't drink coffee? Yeah, I don't drink coffee. I kind of find it hard

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to imagine chocolate without coffee. I mean, I love a bit of chocolate with a really good

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espresso. I mean, that for me is the ultimate pleasure. I agree with you, but I stopped

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drinking coffee a few years ago because it gave me anxiety. Well, the trick is having

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tea caffeinated coffee. I do that every now and then. Yeah. I do that every now and then when

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I go with my husband for coffee, we go for breakfast, I love a latte. Yeah. That's not

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real coffee, but you know. So I go for a decaf, but I've replaced it with tea. Okay. Now I'm

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a cheaper. That's okay. But I mean, I just love that I've always loved the taste of coffee.

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I mean, when my little my dad used to go out and he would have a coffee and he'd dip a sugar cube

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into his coffee and I'd have the sugar cube with a coffee. And ever since then, I've always been

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mad about coffee. But yeah, obviously you kind of have too much caffeine. So I just drink decaffeinated

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coffee, but you get that lovely taste and hit of coffee. But I think it's hard to have a really good

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decaffe. It's getting better. Yeah. There are some, there are some, some people produce very good

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ones. Okay. Yeah. Because I'm yet to find one that I can have at home. But I agree with you,

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I love coffee. I mean, I used to drink coffee. It's just a hard to stop because. Yeah, yeah.

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I'm the same. But I think coffee is also one of the greatest flavors in the world and the smell

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of it is amazing. Well, with chocolate. And then with chocolate also, when I make brownies,

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I always add a bit of coffee in that espresso shot and obviously love tiramisu. So I'm with you

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love coffee too. Dagi, it's been absolute pleasure to have you on the recipe. Your book looks amazing.

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Your food is incredible. You are such a brilliant person. Thank you so much for coming.

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Thank you for having me. I love our chat. Thanks so much to you.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of the recipe with me, Thea Randall.

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You can find Nargis's full recipe on the Philippa Berra website at PhilippaBerra.co.uk

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forward slash CEO. We can also submit a question for one of our future chefs.

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Don't forget to subscribe, follow and share the podcast where you listen.

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Until then, happy cooking.