WEBVTT

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Welcome to St.Tan!

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Welcome to a brand new episode of the front-end happy hour podcast.

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Welcome to this week's JS Party!

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Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is WhiskeyWeb and whatnot.

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With your hosts Robbie the Wagner and me, Charles William Carpenter the third.

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That's right Charles, we drink whiskey and talk about web development.

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I mean it's all in the name, it's not that deep.

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This is, WhiskeyWeb and whatnot do not adjust your set.

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WhiskeyWeb and whatnot is brought to you by...

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2001...

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2002...

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Oh hello, I didn't see you there.

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I don't know if you heard me counting, but I just did over 1000.

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I have all this time to work out because Oz is busy orchestrating agents to do all my work for me in the cloud.

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Oz is a brand new offering from the team that brought you warp.

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It allows me to trigger cloud coding agents from anywhere.

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Warp, the ACLI, the web app, a cron schedule, GitHub actions or any app I want with the SDK.

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So I'm always in control.

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Trust me, as the world's most important AI podcast, we know a thing or two about what makes a good, agentic AI workflow.

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If you want to have all your work done for you, like me, head on over to Oz.dev and get started with 1000 free credits.

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You stay classy planet Earth.

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Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome to WhiskeyWeb and whatnot with your host, Robbie the Wagner and Adam Thomas Argyle, the nerd.

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Happy St. Patty say, y'all, welcome.

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Yeah, it all comes together now.

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Is that the airport earlier? There was, there are some people wearing Shamrock stuff and only then hours later did I connect to that's unbelievable.

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Yeah, I'm always greenish shirt.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Very good.

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I've put it into the rotation. I've never seen it before and I'd like to think I've seen most of Dave shirts at this point.

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Yeah.

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All right. Well, yeah, thanks for joining us, fellas. Adam, would you like to tell the folks at home who we have on the show today?

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Oh, you know, we've got a shot talk show collab for y'all today.

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If you don't know who these two cats are, I'm going to tell you, we have Dave in the shed, Rupert, aka Macho Man Randy standards, aka Barack Shadow, Dom Obama, aka T-Swiptonator, aka Bernie standards, blogger, Gaber, hacker, goofball, figuring painter, base slapping, RSS sling,

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struttle making tinker taker and friend on the other side.

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We've got Chris Koyer, creator of CSS tricks, co-founder of CodePen designer, developer, entrepreneur, badass, front end master, RSS puncher, email lover, claw hammer banger.

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Actually, Dave, please call him or two. He's also a blogger. He's not a business man. He's a business man and overall rad cat that I never hit with baseball back.

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Cause you just don't do that to nice people, do you? Both co-host the excellent excellent show, shop talk show, which happened watching for years.

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We're listening to whatever, but welcome to the show. We can't wait. We're so happy to have you.

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You're born to do this.

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Yeah, you're so good. Like I feel like it's like a 50 50 were even going to like say the guest name.

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Like if they don't say it, like it's probably not happening. I don't know. That's, yeah, you're so good at this. Yeah. Adam is great at that.

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And something else that people will enjoy for this episode, we're not going to say a single word about the whiskey we're having because we all have different shit.

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So let's try.

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I do have legit Irish whiskey though. I've got the green spot. I'm not going to go into all the details maybe later, but I am going to do something silly with it.

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And I'm going to put some green drops in it.

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Okay.

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I think it works.

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Oh baby, James says.

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I'll put a baby, James and in my baby class.

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Oh my god.

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It's not mixing together. Oh, here it goes.

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Oh, there's a baby James.

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That looks pretty good.

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Yeah.

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I should have probably had some before I did that.

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But okay, I got a toast. So as everyone takes their first sip, maybe your CSS always cascade without lumps.

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The luck of the Irish finally help you center that damn div.

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And your whiskey pour smoother than AI generated slot.

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Here's to keeping the bugs out of our code bases and the good stuff in our glasses.

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Slotcha.

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Cheers.

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I'm going to hang out in the garage so hard after this.

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That is not baby James.

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That is full grown up, James.

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I need more explanation on I'm going to hang out at the garage.

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I'm going to get a folding chair out.

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Steely Dan.

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Oh, nice, nice.

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Okay.

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Like a delivery hot dog's leisure.

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Yeah.

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It's right to the garage.

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Is this you?

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I'm going to start from around back in the note.

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Gate open.

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Yeah.

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Oh, God.

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Okay.

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So yeah, we don't have to talk about this whiskey because we're skipping it.

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We're going to move talking about it to the end in general also because people don't care about it.

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So we will talk about it last for the folks who do care about it.

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That's a big change.

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Yeah.

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I figured we'll jump right into the hot take.

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Well, introduce a guest.

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Do a toast.

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We'll have whiskey.

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The spirits are what keep the spirits high, right?

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There's like a whole theme here where like it gets hotter and so it goes on.

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But we don't always have to like do a four minute like dream, you know, a trample in the beginning.

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So it's kind of like hot ones, right?

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They kind of go straight into like, hey, you're going to take a bite and then I'm going to ask you a spicy-ass question.

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Okay.

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Let's springboard right into that.

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Are we in the age of branch truth or brand slop right now?

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There's like a bunch of brands out there that are claiming that they're now doing branch.

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And y'all are a good example of maybe brand truth.

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You're authoritative.

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You have a specific subject.

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You're very genuine and honest.

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Chris has a really good way of saying like, hey, I'm talking out my ass right now.

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So you don't have to believe a single thing I say and then everyone goes, yeah, but what he said was good.

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You know, so you have brand truth.

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Do you think other people are doing that or whenever they post like this for their thumbnails?

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To get the ratings, are they, is that their true self or are they just virtue signaling towards mainstream?

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Slop.

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What do you think?

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That's a lot, man.

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I think so I think you have to play the game.

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So I do give like some people like credit, right?

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Like there's data like this.

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Are we talking YouTube specifically?

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Is that what was that word talking about specifically kind of?

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Or is it like all sorts of stuff?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But there's just social in general.

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But I mean, I mean, if it's a video and then the thumbnails are ridiculous.

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Like they're saying, whatever you play the game a little bit.

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If it's a video, at least you're you're freaking there.

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Your mouth is moving.

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You're saying words and stuff.

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That's different than like, you know, if there's like AI voice over stuff, I'm already out.

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But that's Slop for sure, you know.

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AI voice garbage.

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But you know, if you're on camera and you're saying words, there's some truth to that that I can

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I can get behind.

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It's almost more trustable than written word these days.

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You know, you read a blog post.

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It's a little harder to suss out whether you're reading some Sloppy Slop or not, especially

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when it can be like on blog.microsoft.gov or whatever you don't know.

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You don't know.

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We're convictingly more over there.

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So everyone's convicting one.

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Yeah.

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Is that why videos so hot lately?

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Is that it's like naturally true?

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Go ahead.

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Sorry, David.

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Oh, no.

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Like, you know, when you see like the like Sora B roll every like three second cuts, you

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know, like that's like an immediate like a voiceover.

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Like I'm just like, and it sounds really authoritative.

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But it's like this is probably soups fake and just generate a script generated a video

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in a show that just stinks.

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I don't know.

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I don't want to waste time on volume game.

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Like the people that are doing that only need one or two things to hit and they make a

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bunch of money.

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So they don't care.

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Like, those thousands of videos everywhere and who cares?

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Yeah.

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How come sheep never know their genes?

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Like sheep are so happy being sheep.

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And sometimes I kind of wish I was a sheep.

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You know, then I'd know all the T-swift songs, words, and I'd go to shows that were full

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of more people.

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And I'd like sports and have friends everywhere I went.

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You know, there'd be like a lot of reasons to be made, but no, I'm a dork.

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And I, and I just can't do it.

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I'm like, I'm like a sheep that knows he'll never be a sheep.

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And it makes me never sheepy.

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Anyway, you know what I mean?

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Do you feel this at all?

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My life is so, you're so, you're so smart and okay, is it smart and amazing?

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Smart.

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Sometimes I think it's smarter to not do, to think.

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My life would be so much easier if I didn't care.

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If it was just like, give me a website, link, you know, like, did.

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And I'm like, just give that to my boss or whatever.

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Like I would just, yeah, that would be cool, but like I, that's not what I do, you

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know?

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It's kind of a, like a blessing, but also a curse, maybe I don't know, but it's just,

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you know, caring about what you do stinks, you know, if you, if I didn't care, it'd

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be a lot easier.

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So if you think it would be fun at all, yeah, I don't know.

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Yeah, probably not.

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I mean, there's a lot of stuff that I don't do because I don't, how many bosses like

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that, the sounds like that happens to you sometimes, Dave, but like you can't work for

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me and poop out a website with AI and turn it into me and be like, I'm done, boss, you

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know, like we don't, that's not the kind of shop we run.

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I don't, I don't need that kind of work, like that's not useful to me.

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So I don't know, I don't know, like how, how many people have a job where you can one

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shot your way to a promotion?

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I just don't, I don't know.

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Is that happening?

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Yeah.

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I think it happens at jobs as much, but like people that have no coding skills can now,

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you know, launch a business they couldn't have before and they might look into like a

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really good business model.

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But yeah, like if you're just one shouting something at work, it's going to be bad most

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of the time.

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Yeah.

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Here's one.

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Here's one.

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I got for you.

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Yeah.

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Go ahead.

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There's three times and I wrote them down and I feel bad because I bet there's a chance

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that some one of these three people, I'm not going to name who they are, but they're

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like real people that I know mostly consider friends.

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Maybe all of them decent friends.

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Give them thick names, less boss, Scott, and, and, uh, Theo, okay, let's just use those

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names.

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No, but they made an app, they made an app.

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It's an app.

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I would exist in the world.

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Yeah.

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And they almost proudly say they did a new weekend classic, you know, you did a new

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weekend.

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Good for you.

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I'm in the world and it's paid years of freaking sign up page and it costs money monthly.

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I won't sign up for it.

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I just won't do it.

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I just like you didn't, is it, is it me or, you know, like it's like it didn't take

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you any time.

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Maybe I'll just do it too.

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Maybe I'll make that app in the weekend and like I just don't know that it's not like

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it does.

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Is it though?

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Is it that I don't think you deserve it?

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I don't think you've like proven to me that you care that much about this thing.

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Like, there's just something that just is a media know from me.

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Like, I don't even want to look at it.

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Let alone rubby's.

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Something like that.

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Dex, Dex had comments that you liked right along the lines.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, I had a different analogy I was going to go after.

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So okay.

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Uh, Yamaha guitar, right?

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Yamaha makes jet skis also.

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Would you say they are not experts in one or the other?

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I feel like they're very like the knowledge in one thing is not necessarily what makes

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you put out a good product.

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Like there's a lot of, could be a lot of people involved in like the, well, I guess it's

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00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:51.460
just one person in the example you gave, but I don't know where I'm going with that.

240
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I mean, it's fun.

241
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I liked it.

242
00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:57.900
I just want you to, I feel like I've like six months in mind.

243
00:12:57.900 --> 00:13:02.300
I want you to spend six months with your app and just sweat it.

244
00:13:02.300 --> 00:13:06.620
So I know that you live and breathe the topic of whatever app that is and then I'll

245
00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:08.780
look at it.

246
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It does dangerously giving my email to something, you know, just risk to the little security

247
00:13:16.420 --> 00:13:17.420
risk possibly.

248
00:13:17.420 --> 00:13:19.380
But to me, it's like not as much of that.

249
00:13:19.380 --> 00:13:20.380
I'm like, oh, whatever.

250
00:13:20.380 --> 00:13:21.900
It's just Google off or something.

251
00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:24.100
That's like probably not too terribly dangerous.

252
00:13:24.100 --> 00:13:28.220
But I also am reminded of this book that was a Erica Hall.

253
00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:29.220
You remember her day?

254
00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:34.300
I mean, I know she's not like, yeah, just enough research was a book sheet at one point.

255
00:13:34.300 --> 00:13:40.820
Did you do just enough research for this app or did you just like interview yourself

256
00:13:40.820 --> 00:13:42.220
for eight seconds?

257
00:13:42.220 --> 00:13:45.500
And then that was so popular for so long ago, it was like, look, if you have the need

258
00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:48.420
Chris, someone else does, you need to chase that need.

259
00:13:48.420 --> 00:13:54.140
Hey, look, you need a little place to go make a little quippy demo with HTML and CSS.

260
00:13:54.140 --> 00:13:57.980
Hey, maybe other people might too, just call it code pen.

261
00:13:57.980 --> 00:14:00.700
You know, a lot of these things start out as like, I needed it.

262
00:14:00.700 --> 00:14:01.700
That's true.

263
00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:02.940
Didn't know a shitload of other people needed.

264
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.780
There's like an indie, indie hacker podcast for years.

265
00:14:06.780 --> 00:14:11.540
The whole core of it was like, I was just a schlaub and I needed this little thing.

266
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And so I made it for myself and it's turned into a thought about it.

267
00:14:14.540 --> 00:14:17.980
It took you so long to do it that you went to bed, sleeping about it.

268
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You woke up thinking about it.

269
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You worked on it the next day and like the human brain had time to digest and think about

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it.

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And then if it went three, four days of you sleeping on it and stuff, maybe you'd come

272
00:14:29.740 --> 00:14:35.940
to better conclusions or maybe you'd drop it because you're like, yeah, I don't know.

273
00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:39.740
You know, here's the idea was conference, conference talk from 2020.

274
00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:40.740
You ready?

275
00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:41.740
Ready?

276
00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:42.740
Ready?

277
00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:43.740
Here we go.

278
00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:44.740
All right.

279
00:14:44.740 --> 00:14:45.740
I woke up on Saturday.

280
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I was thinking about this thing and I asked Claude and then like was like, go build it

281
00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:53.740
and then like, it's done.

282
00:14:53.740 --> 00:14:54.740
Any questions?

283
00:14:54.740 --> 00:14:55.740
Yeah.

284
00:14:56.740 --> 00:14:57.740
Yeah, you in the front.

285
00:14:57.740 --> 00:14:58.740
Yeah.

286
00:14:58.740 --> 00:14:59.740
Okay.

287
00:14:59.740 --> 00:15:00.740
Not a question, but you're okay.

288
00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:01.740
You're just a duck.

289
00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:02.740
Okay.

290
00:15:02.740 --> 00:15:04.740
Anyway, I feel like you're also has this thing.

291
00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:05.740
It doesn't inspire you.

292
00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:12.740
Is your thing is a cloud hosted spreadsheet capable of doing what your app does?

293
00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:14.740
There's two of the three of these apps.

294
00:15:14.740 --> 00:15:17.740
I'm like, that's what Apple notes is for.

295
00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:21.740
Only it's just way more useful and I trust it way more.

296
00:15:21.740 --> 00:15:22.740
Yeah.

297
00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:23.740
Okay.

298
00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:27.900
I don't want to be like too down on it, but I want to have like a new policy of my own

299
00:15:27.900 --> 00:15:30.580
where somebody said, I used to have this for podcasts too, by the way.

300
00:15:30.580 --> 00:15:34.900
If you have a podcast, it's got like three episodes on it and you invite me on these days

301
00:15:34.900 --> 00:15:37.820
I might re-evaluate because I'm not exactly who I used to be.

302
00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:39.420
You know, maybe I'll still come on it.

303
00:15:39.420 --> 00:15:43.700
But at the time, I was busier than I am now, and I'd be like, call me when you hit

304
00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:46.020
100 episodes and then I'll come on your bug.

305
00:15:46.020 --> 00:15:50.540
There's like a thing that's like, I don't, you just had an idea one time to start recording

306
00:15:50.540 --> 00:15:53.260
some audio and I'm just the first person you emailed.

307
00:15:53.260 --> 00:15:54.940
You're not good at this yet.

308
00:15:54.940 --> 00:15:55.940
That's fair enough.

309
00:15:55.940 --> 00:16:02.340
Check out episode 40ish with Chris Corier for all this much.

310
00:16:02.340 --> 00:16:03.340
Wait, Dave was on 212.

311
00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:04.740
Did I not say that in the intro?

312
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:05.740
Damn it.

313
00:16:05.740 --> 00:16:07.740
Dave, you were on 212 and I meant to say it.

314
00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:08.740
One, two, baby.

315
00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:09.740
Yeah.

316
00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:10.740
One, two.

317
00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:11.980
That's over a hundred ago.

318
00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:16.300
I think that's fair though, but at work, we do have people like basically one-shotting

319
00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:21.940
tools that either A, remove an entire SaaS product, which has happened twice this week at

320
00:16:21.940 --> 00:16:22.940
Shopify.

321
00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:26.340
I won't say what SaaS products, but we are shooting them down like they're cans on the

322
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:27.340
fucking fence.

323
00:16:27.340 --> 00:16:28.340
It's crazy.

324
00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:31.060
That sounds good to me.

325
00:16:31.060 --> 00:16:32.060
It is good, honestly.

326
00:16:32.060 --> 00:16:36.980
Like, think about how many black boxes you had to buy into to get to get to success as

327
00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:39.300
a corporate, like, scenario.

328
00:16:39.300 --> 00:16:41.020
So now you can take it all back.

329
00:16:41.020 --> 00:16:42.380
You can take back Google Docs.

330
00:16:42.380 --> 00:16:44.980
Google Docs is on its way getting taken back by us right now.

331
00:16:44.980 --> 00:16:48.100
It wasn't that hard to build a really rich markdown editor.

332
00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:51.380
They can vomit that, like, LLM's can vomit that out pretty good right now.

333
00:16:51.380 --> 00:16:52.380
Yeah.

334
00:16:52.380 --> 00:16:55.260
I saw one off the LLP, called Mist or something.

335
00:16:55.260 --> 00:17:00.660
That was like a really nice mark, like, collaborative markdown with comments thing.

336
00:17:00.660 --> 00:17:04.100
That was definitely just a weekend project by some blogger, dude.

337
00:17:04.100 --> 00:17:08.820
And it looks great, but it is one of those things where it fits my policy where I'm like

338
00:17:08.820 --> 00:17:14.540
kind of noping out of it until they kind of provably stick around with it for a while.

339
00:17:14.540 --> 00:17:20.460
But yeah, do you think that's even one of them is even like Google Docs?

340
00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:21.460
That's what that one seems like.

341
00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:23.980
Man, that baby's got that's loaded with features.

342
00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:25.340
It's loaded with trust.

343
00:17:25.340 --> 00:17:30.820
It's loaded with off that other people already have because they're already Google customers

344
00:17:30.820 --> 00:17:31.820
and stuff.

345
00:17:31.820 --> 00:17:35.420
That one seems like in a category, it was like, it's just a true company and you don't

346
00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:36.420
need to structural.

347
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:39.780
You know, like, you don't need to externalize every document.

348
00:17:39.780 --> 00:17:43.860
So that means like 90% of your docs that are just internal only now don't need the junk

349
00:17:43.860 --> 00:17:46.300
that you were depending on the other one for.

350
00:17:46.300 --> 00:17:49.940
And so it's causing like a like a decently healthy reevaluation of like, what do we actually

351
00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:51.900
need this for?

352
00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:54.460
But also you're challenging SaaS.

353
00:17:54.460 --> 00:17:57.940
So there's like a new competition aspect to things.

354
00:17:57.940 --> 00:17:58.940
I don't know.

355
00:17:58.940 --> 00:18:02.020
Some of it's healthy and a lot of it is like, not we're going to see some pretty gnarly

356
00:18:02.020 --> 00:18:03.020
shakeouts from it.

357
00:18:03.020 --> 00:18:04.020
And we already have.

358
00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:07.940
We've seen companies taking huge hits and then they're doing, you know, they're doing layoffs

359
00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:11.660
because they're questioning their own future.

360
00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:15.700
Anyway, we don't have to get all down around this stuff, but oh, here, let me pivot.

361
00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:16.700
Let me pivot.

362
00:18:16.700 --> 00:18:17.700
What do you think?

363
00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:21.820
Is CSS now more important than ever because people are comfortable shipping slop?

364
00:18:21.820 --> 00:18:25.620
And you're there going, no, I'll go the extra fucking mile, watch my app because people

365
00:18:25.620 --> 00:18:27.340
do care about design.

366
00:18:27.340 --> 00:18:29.900
So they'll open up two versions of the same thing and they'll look at yours.

367
00:18:29.900 --> 00:18:34.540
You know, CSS, you have a leg up is your CSS knowledge now?

368
00:18:34.540 --> 00:18:39.100
The biggest advantage that you've ever had in your career or is CSS dead because people

369
00:18:39.100 --> 00:18:42.220
just tailwind fart their way through life.

370
00:18:42.220 --> 00:18:48.260
Well, that was going to be my question, like, how much life force do you have to argue

371
00:18:48.260 --> 00:18:49.740
against tailwind?

372
00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:52.940
Like, I don't see it as much anymore.

373
00:18:52.940 --> 00:18:57.500
I think if you go to Claude right now and you type in Claude the website, right, not

374
00:18:57.500 --> 00:19:01.900
Claude code, the tool, which you probably have opened with a local folder or something,

375
00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:07.460
but just use the app and you say, like, I just did this, speaking of this, Dave, I didn't

376
00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:08.460
even tell Dave this.

377
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:12.620
There's a thing we linked to in the header of shoptalkshow.com that says, go subscribe

378
00:19:12.620 --> 00:19:13.700
somewhere.

379
00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:17.500
And there was this little app that this guy made called plunker or something like that.

380
00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:20.460
It was one of those like no vowels apps or whatever.

381
00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:26.780
And it just made you a quick little landing page for a podcast that had a proper Spotify

382
00:19:26.780 --> 00:19:29.940
link in it and a proper Apple podcast link in it.

383
00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:35.820
You know, the right kind that like embedded you right into the app, like the, the link

384
00:19:35.820 --> 00:19:41.260
was formatted correctly to not just go to the website, but go to the app itself for

385
00:19:41.260 --> 00:19:42.260
whatever.

386
00:19:42.260 --> 00:19:45.260
I'm sure there's like very little technology to make this all work, but they did a good

387
00:19:45.260 --> 00:19:47.500
job and it was mobile friendly and all this stuff.

388
00:19:47.500 --> 00:19:50.940
But it was long time ago, it looks pretty un-maintained at this point.

389
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:55.140
And I was like, this is going to be a good demo for code pen 2.0 because we can, we

390
00:19:55.140 --> 00:20:00.060
can deploy pens now and then map a domain to the pen.

391
00:20:00.060 --> 00:20:04.940
So it'll take me about two seconds to make a podcast landing page for shoptalkshow and

392
00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:08.300
replace this little sass app plunker thing.

393
00:20:08.300 --> 00:20:11.980
And it'll just be a quick little 90 second video I can do.

394
00:20:11.980 --> 00:20:14.060
That's like good marketing for code pen kind of thing.

395
00:20:14.060 --> 00:20:19.100
But I feel like hosting is a, you can't, you know, you can't vibe code your way on a hosting.

396
00:20:19.100 --> 00:20:23.500
Somebody's got a host your thing, you know, you're not going to vibe code an entire hosting

397
00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:24.500
app.

398
00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:28.820
So that gives us some, you know, some cool stuff going on at code pen.

399
00:20:28.820 --> 00:20:31.980
But that's where I was going with the like, just go to Claude right now and say like,

400
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:36.100
make me a one-page app for a podcast, yada, yada, yada, do that.

401
00:20:36.100 --> 00:20:41.180
It's probably not going to be a react until when it has probably much less recently.

402
00:20:41.180 --> 00:20:42.180
I totally agree.

403
00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:45.420
Bolt made it seem like, in loveable made it seem like that was the only thing that was

404
00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:46.420
ever going to come out of them.

405
00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:48.140
But they have strongly adjusted.

406
00:20:48.140 --> 00:20:49.140
I agree.

407
00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:50.140
Yeah.

408
00:20:50.140 --> 00:20:52.380
I mean, Bolt had it in its system prompt.

409
00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:55.180
So that's kind of why that was happening, you know?

410
00:20:55.180 --> 00:21:02.180
That's like the, I've heard it called the react AI tailwind stack, the rat stack, which

411
00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:03.180
is the rat stack.

412
00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:05.380
Oh, I missed all the stacks we used to deal with.

413
00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:09.500
And the mean stack, the morn stack, there were so many cool stacks, jam stack.

414
00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:10.500
Yeah.

415
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:13.500
Now we got rat stack, the rat stack.

416
00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:17.220
There is like, if you find like, there's leak system prompts online and a lot of them

417
00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:23.020
have like use react and tailwind for, or in chat, see and for, you know, doing things.

418
00:21:23.020 --> 00:21:28.620
And, you know, that's everywhere from like Figma to Versel, of course, V0 and then like

419
00:21:28.620 --> 00:21:35.980
lovable, GPTs, Claude's, Gemini, things like that.

420
00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:39.620
So it's, it feels like it's pervasive.

421
00:21:39.620 --> 00:21:40.900
But yeah, I mean, I don't know.

422
00:21:40.900 --> 00:21:48.820
I kind of just have this like, I think you're selling me God in my pocket, right?

423
00:21:48.820 --> 00:21:55.860
You're selling me infinite, some of human knowledge in my pocket, but it can't write

424
00:21:55.860 --> 00:21:57.380
a fucking web component.

425
00:21:57.380 --> 00:21:58.380
Get out of here.

426
00:21:58.380 --> 00:21:59.380
Like that's stupid.

427
00:21:59.380 --> 00:22:06.780
Like I just, I don't know, man, it's, I think, I think knowing CSS is super valuable.

428
00:22:06.780 --> 00:22:07.860
Do other people see it?

429
00:22:07.860 --> 00:22:09.500
I don't think so right now.

430
00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:15.780
So that's my, my opinion or perspective, but it's super valuable.

431
00:22:16.780 --> 00:22:18.660
I feel like it depends on what you ask it for too.

432
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:21.900
If you ask for web components, can it not do it?

433
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:29.420
It does it in my experience, it'll eat each, like over and over.

434
00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:35.540
It kind of like does like very like, you know, like document or like it'll create a class.

435
00:22:35.540 --> 00:22:41.820
And then in the constructor, it's like document, create element, div div dot class name equals

436
00:22:41.820 --> 00:22:46.460
food, you know, like, and then like it'll like set data like very like imperative setting

437
00:22:46.460 --> 00:22:49.380
where it's like in web components, we don't do that.

438
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:55.740
We just like write a template and then, you know, this is the reason people didn't like

439
00:22:55.740 --> 00:23:00.500
web components at first was it was too, it was too adaptable.

440
00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:02.900
Like I write web components my way.

441
00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:07.740
Dave writes, he says we, we write our components this way, Shopify writes our components a way

442
00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:09.460
that I would have never fucking chosen.

443
00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:10.740
I don't like it at all.

444
00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:11.740
It's crazy.

445
00:23:11.740 --> 00:23:15.700
We have like many classes and we extend many classes.

446
00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:19.220
And then you're like, where the hell am I in this stack of classes?

447
00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:20.980
And it's not web components fault.

448
00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:25.860
It's just like it was so loose and people like, people like something that's opinionated.

449
00:23:25.860 --> 00:23:27.380
That's always been the fact.

450
00:23:27.380 --> 00:23:31.820
Like react as it's changed its opinions, it's been what pissed people off.

451
00:23:31.820 --> 00:23:36.020
You know, Amber having one opinion for everything is actually drawn people to it, Phoenix having

452
00:23:36.020 --> 00:23:38.260
one opinion for every, that's drawn people to it.

453
00:23:38.260 --> 00:23:41.740
He assess having new opinions, pisses people off, they're like, tell me the right fucking

454
00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:42.740
way to do it.

455
00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:45.420
And people are like, well, there's, there's a hundred ways and they're like, well, then

456
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:46.420
I'm out.

457
00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:49.340
You know, and to me and you and like other people were like, I love finding my way with

458
00:23:49.340 --> 00:23:50.340
a tool.

459
00:23:50.340 --> 00:23:54.420
I want to find a tool that's like omnicapable and adapts in all these situations.

460
00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:56.140
And web components is one of those things.

461
00:23:56.140 --> 00:24:00.500
It's hard for LLMs to complete just like CSS because there's a thousand ways to skin

462
00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:01.580
that cat.

463
00:24:01.580 --> 00:24:04.140
And that is not good for the auto complete engine.

464
00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.700
It's not a smart engine.

465
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:07.700
It's things just predicts the next word.

466
00:24:07.700 --> 00:24:12.700
And so when it's there's variability and there's options, it's, you know, Adam, you

467
00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:18.540
had a, this is like a while ago, like more early days stuff, but you had a prompt for CSS

468
00:24:18.540 --> 00:24:23.980
where you wrote in English language all this stuff that you, how you wanted CSS to be written.

469
00:24:23.980 --> 00:24:28.580
I remember reading it because it was like use, you know, certain modern things and don't

470
00:24:28.580 --> 00:24:29.580
do modern things.

471
00:24:29.580 --> 00:24:31.740
It probably said do use nesting, please.

472
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:32.740
Yeah.

473
00:24:32.740 --> 00:24:34.740
And I feel like we're talking about.

474
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:35.740
Yeah.

475
00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:36.740
Yeah.

476
00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:39.700
I remember there was some kind of, it wasn't, this is way before skills or anything like

477
00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:42.820
that, you know, but anyway, I feel like it's still relevant.

478
00:24:42.820 --> 00:24:49.300
I would kind of want to resurrect that thing sometimes because it's like, I find it just

479
00:24:49.300 --> 00:24:52.620
as a, as a tiny example, and I feel like these things don't age very well.

480
00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:55.980
I'll probably sound like an idiot in six months, but like, it doesn't do nesting very

481
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:56.980
well.

482
00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:57.980
I like ask it to do CSS.

483
00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:02.140
And it's much, much happier not nesting than nesting.

484
00:25:02.980 --> 00:25:04.420
I think that's weird.

485
00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:07.260
So did I just, is that just a prompting issue though?

486
00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:11.460
Should I have just been more explicit and said, just please nest.

487
00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:12.460
And then it will.

488
00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:15.660
And then it will forget, you know, yeah, you're right, though, and this, this is one of the

489
00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:20.180
other hot takes I was going to ask you all about, which is like, is AI going to ruin

490
00:25:20.180 --> 00:25:22.180
or springboard standards adoption?

491
00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:26.540
Because it really, this is wilds because that was at a one shot, like five seconds ago.

492
00:25:26.540 --> 00:25:27.540
This was one shot.

493
00:25:27.540 --> 00:25:28.540
Yeah.

494
00:25:28.540 --> 00:25:32.660
I mean, whatever looks nice for me, let's see the CSS.

495
00:25:32.660 --> 00:25:38.020
So we got all going to be in one file, which is not just, but yeah, CSS at the top, they

496
00:25:38.020 --> 00:25:42.140
should find code pen, probably, and we'll put our, it's a great idea.

497
00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:43.140
Yeah.

498
00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:45.580
More capable editor inside of here.

499
00:25:45.580 --> 00:25:46.580
Yeah.

500
00:25:46.580 --> 00:25:47.580
That's the bold choice right there.

501
00:25:47.580 --> 00:25:48.580
But okay.

502
00:25:48.580 --> 00:25:49.580
We're good.

503
00:25:49.580 --> 00:25:50.580
Yeah.

504
00:25:50.580 --> 00:25:51.580
That's a gritty background.

505
00:25:51.580 --> 00:25:52.580
Okay.

506
00:25:52.580 --> 00:25:53.580
Yeah.

507
00:25:53.580 --> 00:25:54.580
Yeah.

508
00:25:54.580 --> 00:25:55.740
I mean, this is actually pretty good.

509
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:59.540
I mean, you know, what's interesting too is you get down to, to, to, to, to, to, to,

510
00:25:59.540 --> 00:26:00.540
a lot of stuff.

511
00:26:00.540 --> 00:26:01.540
But that's okay.

512
00:26:01.540 --> 00:26:02.540
A lot of stuff.

513
00:26:02.540 --> 00:26:03.540
No, nesting.

514
00:26:03.540 --> 00:26:10.860
See, um, sting, you know what, about half, I'd say of new 2.0 editor stuff on code pen looks

515
00:26:10.860 --> 00:26:14.500
exactly like this, and you can sniff it out because of the way that it does comments

516
00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:18.620
in the CSS to the sections with like two dashes before the, yes, there's a lot of, just

517
00:26:18.620 --> 00:26:19.620
copying out of CSS comments.

518
00:26:19.620 --> 00:26:20.620
Yeah.

519
00:26:20.620 --> 00:26:21.620
I totally agree.

520
00:26:21.620 --> 00:26:22.620
Yeah.

521
00:26:22.620 --> 00:26:29.300
There's a few, you know, like, I wouldn't do that, but, uh, you know, um, yeah, what do we

522
00:26:29.300 --> 00:26:30.300
think of this?

523
00:26:30.300 --> 00:26:31.300
Like hot tick.

524
00:26:31.300 --> 00:26:32.300
Should we do a round table on this?

525
00:26:32.300 --> 00:26:37.660
Is this, yeah, is this like a thumbs up or a thumbs down good for the web or bad?

526
00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:40.980
You know, like Dave, when you look through this, I see you're like, you're like poking out

527
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:41.980
stuff you don't like.

528
00:26:41.980 --> 00:26:47.420
But overall, are you thinking, wow, are you thinking like this is garbage?

529
00:26:47.420 --> 00:26:49.420
I could do, I could work with this.

530
00:26:49.420 --> 00:26:50.420
Yeah.

531
00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:54.260
I mean, yeah, like I could start with, yeah, like I'm more, I think I'm more impressed

532
00:26:54.260 --> 00:26:58.540
than I would have been six months ago, with that makes sense or, you know, three months.

533
00:26:58.540 --> 00:27:02.340
And then what about the, like the fact that this is one shot is interesting, but the fact

534
00:27:02.340 --> 00:27:05.820
that I can work with this, do you think you could just keep asking it stuff?

535
00:27:05.820 --> 00:27:10.460
Could you say, okay, I like what you've done here, but no fucking way.

536
00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:12.420
It'll completely rewrite the whole site.

537
00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:16.220
Yeah, seriously, it's really, I'm totally with Robbie.

538
00:27:16.220 --> 00:27:17.220
It's weird.

539
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:18.220
It's so weird.

540
00:27:18.220 --> 00:27:20.940
We don't have to work here, but I don't know that I will in cloud code.

541
00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:25.180
Like if you exported this, you cleaned it up a little bit and then you started using the

542
00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:28.220
CLI tool to do, I think it would be a little more surgical with it.

543
00:27:28.220 --> 00:27:33.580
Well, I know what you mean with all of it is if you're doing it for too long, it will compact

544
00:27:33.580 --> 00:27:39.860
your context and fuck all of it up because like anything you ask, even if it's like completely

545
00:27:39.860 --> 00:27:44.460
scriptible, like, hey, here's this thing that programmatically should be this way.

546
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:45.460
Please do it for me.

547
00:27:45.460 --> 00:27:46.460
Cool dope.

548
00:27:46.460 --> 00:27:47.460
I'm doing it.

549
00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:49.580
I'm 500 files in and I just forgot how to do it.

550
00:27:49.580 --> 00:27:54.300
So I'm doing it however I want now and it's like, so it totally depends how many times

551
00:27:54.300 --> 00:27:55.300
you ask it.

552
00:27:55.300 --> 00:28:03.220
Like maybe if you ask it one or two things here, it'll be fine, but let's see.

553
00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:08.860
For the audio only listeners, Dave put a secondary prompt in after it one shot this beautiful

554
00:28:08.860 --> 00:28:12.140
podcast page, which has really nice animations in it.

555
00:28:12.140 --> 00:28:13.660
How the hell did it do that?

556
00:28:13.660 --> 00:28:21.420
Dave's prompt was make me a graph about context rot and put it in the hero section of age.

557
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:22.420
Cool.

558
00:28:22.420 --> 00:28:24.900
It doesn't understand nagging Dave.

559
00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:28.620
This is a little turned on right now.

560
00:28:28.620 --> 00:28:30.100
Good chart, dude.

561
00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:33.100
No, just to get this out of my mouth.

562
00:28:33.100 --> 00:28:34.100
I appreciate it.

563
00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:38.780
I get a title for this episode called Flogging margins as we were discussing like what should

564
00:28:38.780 --> 00:28:42.220
be titled and I liked it because that's you're describing exactly what happens.

565
00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:45.180
I one shot something and I'm like, holy cow.

566
00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:46.180
That was really great.

567
00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:49.260
And then I'm like, hey, tweak this thing over here and it goes, oh, you got it.

568
00:28:49.260 --> 00:28:50.260
Let me tweak that thing.

569
00:28:50.260 --> 00:28:51.260
And so I'm done.

570
00:28:51.260 --> 00:28:53.140
I'm like, it's not tweaked.

571
00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:57.140
It's all I wanted was a little spacing added to that thing and it goes, oh, yeah, you're

572
00:28:57.140 --> 00:28:58.460
so right.

573
00:28:58.460 --> 00:29:01.300
Let me go add the spacing to that thing and it adds the spacing to that thing.

574
00:29:01.300 --> 00:29:04.020
And then something else gets spacing too.

575
00:29:04.020 --> 00:29:09.780
And I'm like, no, that's now we're working backwards and I swear to you, I'm in this scenario

576
00:29:09.780 --> 00:29:12.060
where it's like, I ask for something.

577
00:29:12.060 --> 00:29:13.060
One thing's fixed.

578
00:29:13.060 --> 00:29:14.060
Two things break.

579
00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:15.060
One thing's fixed.

580
00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:18.460
It's just front end development with these tools is so tough right now.

581
00:29:18.460 --> 00:29:23.100
They really need to level up specifically their CSS and HTML.

582
00:29:23.100 --> 00:29:24.100
Yeah.

583
00:29:24.100 --> 00:29:28.820
Well, so it does a bit of faze in the chart, it did okay.

584
00:29:28.820 --> 00:29:29.820
I better than I like it.

585
00:29:29.820 --> 00:29:31.980
This is like the nicest chart I've ever seen in my life.

586
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:32.980
I'm sure it's like that.

587
00:29:32.980 --> 00:29:33.980
It's just for that concept.

588
00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:34.980
It's good.

589
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:35.980
All right.

590
00:29:35.980 --> 00:29:36.980
I'm done.

591
00:29:36.980 --> 00:29:37.980
I'm done.

592
00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:38.980
I'm done playing.

593
00:29:39.380 --> 00:29:45.740
So I think it kind of goes back to, do you care to read the code?

594
00:29:45.740 --> 00:29:50.500
Because like, so Shepard, I've talked about this a lot on the podcast.

595
00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:51.500
Shepard was in Svelte.

596
00:29:51.500 --> 00:29:52.820
I upgraded to Svelte 5.

597
00:29:52.820 --> 00:30:00.220
I got way bigger because Svelte 5 is like base, whatever it ships is way bigger.

598
00:30:00.220 --> 00:30:01.820
But then each component is way smaller.

599
00:30:01.820 --> 00:30:06.940
So if you have more than like five components, it's a good call, but I have five components.

600
00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:08.300
So I'm like, all right.

601
00:30:08.300 --> 00:30:09.300
This is stupid.

602
00:30:09.300 --> 00:30:11.860
So I was like, make it solid JS and it's like, boom.

603
00:30:11.860 --> 00:30:12.860
Here it is.

604
00:30:12.860 --> 00:30:13.860
It was like sick.

605
00:30:13.860 --> 00:30:14.860
And then I was like, all right, ship that.

606
00:30:14.860 --> 00:30:15.860
And I was like, all right.

607
00:30:15.860 --> 00:30:18.980
What if it was just TypeScript, though, and it was like, oh, you're right.

608
00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:19.980
No framework.

609
00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:20.980
Boom.

610
00:30:20.980 --> 00:30:21.980
Done.

611
00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:22.980
One shot it.

612
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:23.980
Shipped it.

613
00:30:23.980 --> 00:30:27.460
Like if your test coverage is good enough that you know nothing broke, do you care?

614
00:30:27.460 --> 00:30:31.620
If like the bundle size dropped in half, it's still working fine.

615
00:30:31.620 --> 00:30:32.620
All the tests pass.

616
00:30:32.620 --> 00:30:33.620
Yeah.

617
00:30:33.620 --> 00:30:34.620
Who cares, right?

618
00:30:34.620 --> 00:30:35.620
That's how you're feeling.

619
00:30:35.620 --> 00:30:36.620
Yeah.

620
00:30:36.620 --> 00:30:37.620
Oh, man, that's how you look.

621
00:30:37.620 --> 00:30:43.060
If you're comfortable with it, well, I have a lot of tests that make me comfortable.

622
00:30:43.060 --> 00:30:48.020
Like if you do not have a ton of tests, I would be very worried about doing that.

623
00:30:48.020 --> 00:30:52.380
It's test, but it's also like, if I need to go in there and get a little surgical about,

624
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:57.100
I'll tell you, real story, the tour of Code Pen 2.0 is shepherd.

625
00:30:57.100 --> 00:30:59.100
We are using we are new customized.

626
00:30:59.100 --> 00:31:01.540
I really, I really think it's nice.

627
00:31:01.540 --> 00:31:03.700
We even used on on the individual tours.

628
00:31:03.700 --> 00:31:08.020
We used corner shape notch, you know, to give it the cool little pixel side and it looks

629
00:31:08.020 --> 00:31:09.020
great.

630
00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:10.020
It looks great.

631
00:31:10.020 --> 00:31:13.620
But we had somebody write in with the tour that says they were able to get multiple steps

632
00:31:13.620 --> 00:31:19.060
of the tour open at once and it's because they were just hammering on the arrow keys,

633
00:31:19.060 --> 00:31:24.180
which we have bound to go to next step and go back and it was just, there was some kind

634
00:31:24.180 --> 00:31:25.180
of timing thing, man.

635
00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:29.260
If you just go on the arrow keys, you can get multiple steps to open at the same time.

636
00:31:29.260 --> 00:31:30.660
We had to get in there, man.

637
00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:34.060
We had to understand what was going on and we had a little monkey patch a little bit

638
00:31:34.060 --> 00:31:37.860
and get it going so that we could ship it and tell the people we toured our thing.

639
00:31:37.860 --> 00:31:40.380
That took like understanding of code to do that.

640
00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:46.380
I don't think I could go into Claude and be like, yo, there's this bug or like multiple

641
00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:47.380
tour steps can be open.

642
00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:48.620
I mean, I could be wrong.

643
00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:49.860
Maybe I could sort it out.

644
00:31:49.860 --> 00:31:50.860
Maybe I could figure it out.

645
00:31:50.860 --> 00:31:56.700
I feel like it was nice to have an employee that was happened to be like, no, I'm going

646
00:31:56.700 --> 00:31:57.700
to understand this.

647
00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:00.020
I feel like there's just a moment.

648
00:32:00.020 --> 00:32:05.060
There comes to be a moment where like you just need an like an intelligent adult to really

649
00:32:05.060 --> 00:32:07.220
know what the hell is going on and fix it.

650
00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:11.460
And if there, if all the adults have left the room, I worry.

651
00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:14.220
Yeah, there's definitely stuff it can't do.

652
00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:15.620
I totally agree with you on that.

653
00:32:15.620 --> 00:32:20.060
Like, there'll be days where I'm going back and forth for three hours and I'm like,

654
00:32:20.060 --> 00:32:26.340
oh, fine, I'll go code it myself and it's like a one line change or what like super easy.

655
00:32:26.340 --> 00:32:29.340
It just can't like understand what I wanted or something.

656
00:32:29.340 --> 00:32:32.340
I don't know why it's so bad sometimes, but other times it's so magic.

657
00:32:32.340 --> 00:32:33.540
Like I think it's getting better.

658
00:32:33.540 --> 00:32:36.940
Like Dave said, like six months ago, hell, not now.

659
00:32:36.940 --> 00:32:37.940
Yeah.

660
00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:38.940
Pretty.

661
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:41.820
I don't think it's that the models have gotten better.

662
00:32:41.820 --> 00:32:48.180
I think how they're the tooling to manage context has gotten better inside of the models.

663
00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:49.180
I think that's true.

664
00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:50.180
The harnesses.

665
00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:51.180
So like harnesses.

666
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:52.180
Yeah.

667
00:32:52.180 --> 00:33:04.340
I just like, you know, I'm still hard to go like, but it's the like when I saw Claude,

668
00:33:04.340 --> 00:33:09.060
whatever sonnet or something like do to do's, I was like and watch it step through it

669
00:33:09.060 --> 00:33:14.980
iteratively rather than like make a big old PRD and be like, oh, cool, I'll just ignore

670
00:33:14.980 --> 00:33:15.980
that.

671
00:33:15.980 --> 00:33:23.980
Like that was like a, okay, at least like it takes a predictable path, you know, but

672
00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:30.460
still like can go wild, but hopefully you're I love that planning mode when you put it

673
00:33:30.460 --> 00:33:34.900
on plan and it makes like an MD file that's and then you can sit there and go back and

674
00:33:34.900 --> 00:33:35.900
further.

675
00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:39.060
I have, I'm a little, I'm almost nervous to do it, but I have a like deep, it's like

676
00:33:39.060 --> 00:33:43.180
now like a huge feature, but it's like, this is a big next step we need to take and

677
00:33:43.260 --> 00:33:45.940
involves data and it involves some stuff.

678
00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:53.180
And I, I wrote it out by hand and then I turned that into a prompt and then I prompted back

679
00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:56.540
and forth a bunch of times to get this plan really good.

680
00:33:56.540 --> 00:34:01.420
And then I rewrote it just for the team because I feel like that planning document's like

681
00:34:01.420 --> 00:34:05.340
a little in the weeds, like a one that it created automatically.

682
00:34:05.340 --> 00:34:08.900
So I like, re-explained it with regular words and then I'm going to bring both of those

683
00:34:08.980 --> 00:34:13.620
things to a meeting and I'm going to say, this is what I want to do, but I think it needs

684
00:34:13.620 --> 00:34:17.860
to get talked about before I just start doing it.

685
00:34:17.860 --> 00:34:22.620
And I'm going to have my plan is to have a I help me with all the steps and it's not

686
00:34:22.620 --> 00:34:27.500
going to be four steps, it's going to be like 15 steps and there's going to be built

687
00:34:27.500 --> 00:34:32.420
in pauses where things need to run and migrations that need to like go to production before we

688
00:34:32.420 --> 00:34:35.420
can even do the next step and it's pretty ambitious.

689
00:34:35.420 --> 00:34:39.820
And I feel like that's cool kind of, but the reason I'm nervous is like, I don't think

690
00:34:39.820 --> 00:34:45.260
I've ever came to a meeting and said, let's discuss this mark down planning document

691
00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:46.620
that an AI wrote before.

692
00:34:46.620 --> 00:34:49.740
I'm sure there's been lots of meetings like that, but that's like, it's been weird to

693
00:34:49.740 --> 00:34:50.740
me.

694
00:34:50.740 --> 00:34:53.460
No, you're like a working group right now, just one person, but you're like, hey, look,

695
00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:57.660
I spent a bunch of time in a doc writing my thoughts down in a controlled format that

696
00:34:57.660 --> 00:35:02.180
has a decent plan and I'd like to review it with a committee, man, that's, that's good

697
00:35:02.180 --> 00:35:03.180
stuff.

698
00:35:04.180 --> 00:35:10.060
It's good, but I didn't, you know, the fact that it's like not all from my brain, it

699
00:35:10.060 --> 00:35:16.780
feels weird, you know, like because because you know when you're asking someone, the worst

700
00:35:16.780 --> 00:35:22.780
thing you can do, I think this is generally agreed upon is to have a feature idea and

701
00:35:22.780 --> 00:35:29.140
one shot it and put a PR and then have somebody who's like more senior than you, it becomes

702
00:35:29.140 --> 00:35:30.460
hours of their time.

703
00:35:30.460 --> 00:35:35.220
It was 30, 30 minutes of your time turns into four hours of their time, everybody agrees

704
00:35:35.220 --> 00:35:36.220
that's bullshit.

705
00:35:36.220 --> 00:35:37.580
You just, you can't do that.

706
00:35:37.580 --> 00:35:40.500
That's an unacceptable behavior, I work.

707
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:41.500
Not the case actually.

708
00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:47.820
So, okay, so a beloved person named Frank Camaro, who you may know, who said, work with

709
00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:54.180
the grain of the web, it's a wildly amazing comment that you're building interfaces wrong.

710
00:35:54.180 --> 00:35:57.460
If you're not working with the grain of the material that you're working with, this

711
00:35:57.460 --> 00:36:04.300
exact same individual months ago, wrote a post called Beyond the Machine and Beyond

712
00:36:04.300 --> 00:36:08.540
Machine talks about something called a dark factory.

713
00:36:08.540 --> 00:36:12.020
And I guess if you were to compare it, a light factory would be a factory that you walk

714
00:36:12.020 --> 00:36:16.420
inside and you look and see how things are working and then you make sure that the

715
00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:21.420
t-shirts coming out of it, that the threads are being created properly and that the stitching

716
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:22.420
is good.

717
00:36:22.420 --> 00:36:26.820
But in a dark factory, you say, hey factory, make me a t-shirt and out comes a t-shirt

718
00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:31.020
from the other side and you go, good factory and you tap it on its head.

719
00:36:31.020 --> 00:36:33.660
So this is now a way that people use AI.

720
00:36:33.660 --> 00:36:37.740
They're literally, it's called having dark factories where you don't look at the code

721
00:36:37.740 --> 00:36:38.980
ever.

722
00:36:38.980 --> 00:36:43.620
You look at the tests, you look at the results, you apply constraints and you do everything

723
00:36:43.620 --> 00:36:46.380
but actually care about the code.

724
00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:49.700
So what you're describing, like people don't never, no, there's actually entire agencies

725
00:36:49.700 --> 00:36:51.500
that don't look at the code anymore.

726
00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:56.740
They're running entire AI factories that are dark and they aren't exploding.

727
00:36:56.740 --> 00:37:02.020
I do think there's like a hot taken here where people are struggling right now, there's

728
00:37:02.020 --> 00:37:05.740
definitely risk and yeah, you try to mitigate, but there's risk and like even you read it,

729
00:37:05.740 --> 00:37:06.740
you're human.

730
00:37:06.740 --> 00:37:08.780
You know, hey, what did you get to do that?

731
00:37:08.780 --> 00:37:09.780
But that can be read that.

732
00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:14.460
If the company is big enough that you miss a test and you open a security hole, you

733
00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:19.860
can put real, you can make people at risk, you can, the profitability of your company at

734
00:37:19.860 --> 00:37:20.860
the same time.

735
00:37:20.860 --> 00:37:26.620
Data at risk, you could say, oh, build this AI feature into my, into my burrito ordering

736
00:37:26.620 --> 00:37:34.020
app that exposes your API key or some shit or that people spam with stuff and you didn't

737
00:37:34.020 --> 00:37:38.460
have a test that said, make sure people don't ask 10,000 questions.

738
00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:42.940
You just forgot to have like a rate limiter you built into it and you shipped it and you

739
00:37:42.940 --> 00:37:50.220
get a $250,000 AI bill or something, it can materially damage your business.

740
00:37:50.220 --> 00:37:55.500
Like I just think that's like real, real honest to God risk.

741
00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:57.500
It is the extreme side of what's happening right now.

742
00:37:57.500 --> 00:37:58.740
I totally agree.

743
00:37:58.740 --> 00:38:00.580
I don't run any dark factories.

744
00:38:00.580 --> 00:38:04.380
Although actually I'll be honest, my open cloud apps, I have a beer dashboard and a whiskey

745
00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:07.260
dashboard and a birthday dashboard that I don't know what to code.

746
00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:09.500
You looked, never even looked at it.

747
00:38:09.500 --> 00:38:13.540
And the CSS you're allowed to, you exhale and just let it do it, yeah.

748
00:38:13.540 --> 00:38:14.540
Yeah.

749
00:38:14.540 --> 00:38:17.380
I mean, there's a lot of other things I care about when it's my work and I'm delivering

750
00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:21.580
it and it's my name is behind it at like a professionally, definitely care.

751
00:38:21.580 --> 00:38:25.620
But, and then my personal website, I know every single line of code that's on that thing

752
00:38:25.620 --> 00:38:27.620
no matter what the guys helps me or not.

753
00:38:27.620 --> 00:38:32.700
But there's like, yeah, there's, and I, I'm being devil's advocate, kind of like pitching

754
00:38:32.700 --> 00:38:35.500
these dark factories and I agree with you that it is very risky.

755
00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:40.580
There are an odd amount of folks out there that are running these things all day and then

756
00:38:40.580 --> 00:38:45.420
you have people running gas towns, which are like multiple dark factories that they create

757
00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:48.060
personas of people inside it.

758
00:38:48.060 --> 00:38:49.060
We're in a wild.

759
00:38:49.060 --> 00:38:52.700
It's not even not looking there's a, you know, one guy that made this app that he wanted

760
00:38:52.700 --> 00:38:53.700
me to review.

761
00:38:53.700 --> 00:38:57.580
This is why I'm a little not salty about it, but he even wired up somebody showed him

762
00:38:57.580 --> 00:39:01.300
on a used cloud code and then he wired it up to just talk to it.

763
00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:04.700
So he's got an app on the Apple app store right now.

764
00:39:04.700 --> 00:39:05.700
He couldn't review the code.

765
00:39:05.700 --> 00:39:09.100
He doesn't know he's never coded anything in his life.

766
00:39:09.100 --> 00:39:14.860
He wouldn't know how to review the code and nor did he even use his fingers, you know,

767
00:39:14.860 --> 00:39:21.100
he just said, he just prompted with his, with his voice and it's not for me, it's on

768
00:39:21.100 --> 00:39:22.100
the app stores.

769
00:39:22.100 --> 00:39:23.100
Yeah.

770
00:39:23.100 --> 00:39:24.100
No fingers involved.

771
00:39:24.100 --> 00:39:25.100
I don't know.

772
00:39:25.100 --> 00:39:26.100
It just feels weird to me.

773
00:39:26.100 --> 00:39:30.700
But it does work and it's fine and all that, but it does kind of feel like, I don't

774
00:39:30.700 --> 00:39:34.700
know, it's one, it's one of the ones where I'm just like, I think I'm just going to keep

775
00:39:34.700 --> 00:39:39.700
it's glorified notes, you know, so many apps are like that.

776
00:39:39.700 --> 00:39:47.020
It's kind of, is it just you want the creator or create tours to be like bought in to the

777
00:39:47.020 --> 00:39:48.020
product?

778
00:39:48.020 --> 00:39:51.100
Well, that's kind of what you're expressing, right?

779
00:39:51.100 --> 00:39:54.100
Because like, you made some condoms for something.

780
00:39:54.100 --> 00:39:55.100
Yeah.

781
00:39:55.100 --> 00:39:56.100
I don't know.

782
00:39:56.100 --> 00:39:57.100
I don't know.

783
00:39:57.100 --> 00:40:02.900
Don't you want me to care if you're going to download a Gundam painting helper app that

784
00:40:02.900 --> 00:40:09.300
the person who created it is like a, at least a pretty big fan has done it before.

785
00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:13.700
It like, it like folks me that's like, I sense a gap in the market.

786
00:40:13.700 --> 00:40:19.380
I've been, I can get people to spend $299 on this app before I just ruined my life.

787
00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:21.660
This is all I'm going to think about now is making money.

788
00:40:21.660 --> 00:40:23.660
Anyway, go ahead.

789
00:40:23.660 --> 00:40:24.660
Keep going.

790
00:40:24.660 --> 00:40:25.660
Yeah.

791
00:40:25.660 --> 00:40:26.660
Yeah.

792
00:40:26.660 --> 00:40:28.660
I like internally demand it.

793
00:40:28.660 --> 00:40:33.500
I'm not asking the rest of the world to think the way I do, but like, yes, I want the

794
00:40:33.500 --> 00:40:39.900
person behind that app to deeply, deeply care about what that app does.

795
00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:45.940
I guess I always have, though, you know, it shows me when, yeah, it's always in the

796
00:40:45.940 --> 00:40:46.940
product.

797
00:40:46.940 --> 00:40:47.940
You know, someone actually cares.

798
00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:49.460
Like, given a rip is always there.

799
00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:54.020
That's why like a local farmer's market is always cool because the human touch is all

800
00:40:54.020 --> 00:40:55.020
over that shit.

801
00:40:55.020 --> 00:41:00.280
It just smells and reeks and feels and looks like a human took time to make it versus a

802
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:06.300
factory created good, which looks like a plastic mold was created and wax was poured inside

803
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:11.220
and it was molded and then given to you and they're like, here, have your thing.

804
00:41:11.220 --> 00:41:16.300
And so yeah, there's, these are always going to fight each other forever, if you like.

805
00:41:16.300 --> 00:41:17.300
And I always like the human touch.

806
00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:19.300
This is why I like music.

807
00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:23.060
I'm really worried that music is going to get overtaken by AI.

808
00:41:23.060 --> 00:41:30.860
It's already had numerous hit songs, numerous top charts, AI generated songs, but if it

809
00:41:30.860 --> 00:41:36.740
wrote the lyrics, tell me what you used, please, because I haven't gotten nothing that will

810
00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:41.220
write good lyrics at all.

811
00:41:41.220 --> 00:41:43.140
You know, here's, I'll say one spicy.

812
00:41:43.140 --> 00:41:46.540
It felt like you have ever seen the party that come.

813
00:41:46.540 --> 00:41:53.100
Oh, yeah, Monday, it's like, for some reason, that app to me, I'm sure I'm just being

814
00:41:53.100 --> 00:41:54.100
an asshole.

815
00:41:54.100 --> 00:41:57.340
If you work at Monday, sorry, but it never felt like anybody actually cared about what

816
00:41:57.340 --> 00:41:58.660
it does.

817
00:41:58.660 --> 00:42:03.300
It was just a story of like getting the business dialed in.

818
00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:09.260
Can we market this thing so perfectly in this world that we can achieve growth?

819
00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:12.740
It was only ever about marketing and growth of the thing.

820
00:42:12.740 --> 00:42:13.740
It was nobody behind the brand.

821
00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:14.740
It's true.

822
00:42:14.740 --> 00:42:15.740
It's the first brand slot.

823
00:42:15.740 --> 00:42:16.740
Yes.

824
00:42:16.740 --> 00:42:20.700
There's a ton of products that are all about, they have a marketing angle and they're going

825
00:42:20.700 --> 00:42:26.140
to wreck, I built apps where they spent a million dollars building the app and multi-millions

826
00:42:26.140 --> 00:42:27.140
marketing it.

827
00:42:27.140 --> 00:42:28.140
And you know what?

828
00:42:28.140 --> 00:42:31.780
It was way more successful than the people who did the reverse where they spent more money

829
00:42:31.780 --> 00:42:32.780
building a good one.

830
00:42:32.780 --> 00:42:33.780
Right.

831
00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:34.780
Right.

832
00:42:34.780 --> 00:42:35.780
And that always pissed me off.

833
00:42:35.780 --> 00:42:37.580
It still pissed me off, obviously, because I'm getting a little riled up.

834
00:42:37.580 --> 00:42:41.460
And anyway, it's like, that's really unfair to have like, you forget on Instagram and

835
00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:42.460
spend two million.

836
00:42:42.460 --> 00:42:43.460
Sure.

837
00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:44.460
It really is.

838
00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:45.460
Ah, sucks.

839
00:42:45.460 --> 00:42:47.820
But if you build it, they will come thing is not true.

840
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:48.820
It's not true.

841
00:42:48.820 --> 00:42:49.820
Yeah.

842
00:42:49.820 --> 00:42:50.820
It's rare.

843
00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:51.820
Maybe that's the blue moon.

844
00:42:51.820 --> 00:42:52.820
Yeah.

845
00:42:52.820 --> 00:42:53.820
No.

846
00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:57.660
There's a popular issue management software.

847
00:42:57.660 --> 00:43:05.460
We tried, we demoed when I was doing Lero and it's great marketing page, oh, just beautiful.

848
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:07.260
Oh, so many people sign up for it.

849
00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:10.620
Look at all these logos, the NASCAR logos.

850
00:43:10.620 --> 00:43:17.620
And you log in, like just, I called it a mullet because it was like business professional

851
00:43:17.620 --> 00:43:18.620
in the front.

852
00:43:18.620 --> 00:43:24.100
And then just a hot rat nest in the back, man, I was just like, I was just looking at the

853
00:43:24.100 --> 00:43:25.100
back.

854
00:43:25.100 --> 00:43:26.100
Yeah.

855
00:43:26.100 --> 00:43:32.340
You walking, you like, it's like, I don't know, getting like, like, I don't know, like true,

856
00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:33.340
like I care or something.

857
00:43:33.340 --> 00:43:35.860
You're just like, oh, wow, look, that's good stuff.

858
00:43:35.860 --> 00:43:38.620
And then they just lead you into like, the furnace.

859
00:43:38.620 --> 00:43:42.740
And they're like, good luck, you know, I don't know.

860
00:43:42.740 --> 00:43:43.740
Yes.

861
00:43:43.740 --> 00:43:44.740
Yeah.

862
00:43:44.740 --> 00:43:49.380
That's pretty common, I feel like like everyone makes sure their marketing page is nice.

863
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:54.260
And then like over half the time I sign up for something and then it's just garbage

864
00:43:54.260 --> 00:43:58.540
because I'm like, oh, like, okay, TikTok is pretty fucking garbage.

865
00:43:58.540 --> 00:44:02.340
At their like, you log in and I'm trying to do marketing and business, you shit.

866
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:07.340
And it's like, well, you maybe get like one text box that won't work and we'll log

867
00:44:07.340 --> 00:44:08.340
you out.

868
00:44:08.580 --> 00:44:14.180
Like, and yeah, but like, you know, the consumer using it who's just consuming the content

869
00:44:14.180 --> 00:44:16.060
is like, oh, this is a great snappy app.

870
00:44:16.060 --> 00:44:20.620
But like the people that are trying to make money get the shity app, like, no, what?

871
00:44:20.620 --> 00:44:21.620
Yeah.

872
00:44:21.620 --> 00:44:22.620
Yeah.

873
00:44:22.620 --> 00:44:23.620
Yeah.

874
00:44:23.620 --> 00:44:27.700
It's just that there's like such an inverse of like, you know, I don't know.

875
00:44:27.700 --> 00:44:32.300
Like, yeah, you're trying to give them money to like run ads or whatever.

876
00:44:32.300 --> 00:44:34.900
And that's how their platform supported actually not.

877
00:44:34.900 --> 00:44:36.100
They're just selling data.

878
00:44:36.100 --> 00:44:44.500
They, but you're like, you know, and then you're just like given like the, I don't know

879
00:44:44.500 --> 00:44:47.980
the, like, stepchild experience.

880
00:44:47.980 --> 00:44:49.940
So, you know, too bad.

881
00:44:49.940 --> 00:44:50.940
Yeah.

882
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:52.420
Happens all the time.

883
00:44:52.420 --> 00:44:53.420
All right.

884
00:44:53.420 --> 00:44:57.940
Should I pivot us a little into some modern, some news that's happening.

885
00:44:57.940 --> 00:44:59.980
You guys can pick which one of these you want to attack?

886
00:44:59.980 --> 00:45:05.740
I'm just going to say, I'm going to say three things and you're straight up for news.

887
00:45:05.740 --> 00:45:11.060
One of them is going to hit you and yours is going to look at the first one is the

888
00:45:11.060 --> 00:45:12.060
new energy.

889
00:45:12.060 --> 00:45:16.620
You guys know what an energy vampire is from a, sure, we're doing the shadows.

890
00:45:16.620 --> 00:45:17.620
Okay.

891
00:45:17.620 --> 00:45:23.900
So the new energy, energy vampire is AI or the new junior AI dev you can hire for $2,000

892
00:45:23.900 --> 00:45:27.580
a month that takes no breaks and just works all night and all day.

893
00:45:27.580 --> 00:45:31.620
Or do you want to talk about many claw adventures where you can set your open claw machine to

894
00:45:31.620 --> 00:45:39.380
go join an online universe and hang out with other machines energy vampire.

895
00:45:39.380 --> 00:45:40.380
All right.

896
00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:41.380
Energy vampires.

897
00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:42.380
Okay.

898
00:45:42.380 --> 00:45:43.380
Okay.

899
00:45:43.380 --> 00:45:47.860
This one was written by the guy, Steve Yeg, who was the creator of Gastown and he recently

900
00:45:47.860 --> 00:45:51.020
posted AI as a vampire.

901
00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:52.020
People in a room.

902
00:45:52.020 --> 00:45:53.700
Hey, maybe this even shows happening.

903
00:45:53.700 --> 00:45:57.980
You're in a room and somebody starts talking about AI and the whole room that starts to

904
00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:02.180
sort of collapse on itself is now AI is the topic that everyone would be talking about.

905
00:46:02.180 --> 00:46:07.380
But we're going to combine the AI vampire with the other new thing that happened this week,

906
00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:10.180
which is AI brain fry.

907
00:46:10.180 --> 00:46:16.180
Many people, including Steve Yeg are saying that AI is now asking my brain to do more work

908
00:46:16.180 --> 00:46:19.220
than I have ever had to do before, not less.

909
00:46:19.220 --> 00:46:25.980
It is now the same brain hooked up to multi scenarios that it's not prepared for.

910
00:46:25.980 --> 00:46:30.020
And I am now sleeping more or feeling more sleepy or feeling more drained basically because

911
00:46:30.020 --> 00:46:34.340
it's like a fucking drug and the drug sometimes isn't pumping into your blood veins.

912
00:46:34.340 --> 00:46:40.220
So we have the AI vampire slash the AI drug lord brain fry scenario happening.

913
00:46:40.220 --> 00:46:42.580
And isn't there some guilt in there too?

914
00:46:42.580 --> 00:46:45.820
We can throw that one in there where you're like, if you're taking a break, you're like,

915
00:46:45.820 --> 00:46:46.820
God, I should have.

916
00:46:46.820 --> 00:46:50.460
Before I got up, I should have put a big prompt in there so that's a lot of the AI

917
00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:51.460
vampires.

918
00:46:51.460 --> 00:46:52.460
Yes.

919
00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:56.220
If you have dine to these going while I sleep, what kind of tool am I that I don't even

920
00:46:56.220 --> 00:46:57.220
have one?

921
00:46:57.220 --> 00:46:58.220
I don't even have a cloud max.

922
00:46:58.220 --> 00:46:59.220
Can we start?

923
00:46:59.220 --> 00:47:00.220
Can we start getting it?

924
00:47:00.220 --> 00:47:01.220
Dang it Chad.

925
00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:04.020
You're fucking it up again.

926
00:47:04.020 --> 00:47:07.420
I can't keep an AI busy for 30 minutes.

927
00:47:07.420 --> 00:47:08.420
I know.

928
00:47:08.420 --> 00:47:09.420
Am I failing?

929
00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:10.420
Someone?

930
00:47:10.420 --> 00:47:11.420
How do you?

931
00:47:11.420 --> 00:47:12.420
Dangerous.

932
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:13.420
I know there's a realm permissions.

933
00:47:13.420 --> 00:47:14.420
Yeah.

934
00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:17.420
I think it just does.

935
00:47:17.420 --> 00:47:18.420
It's stuff.

936
00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:19.420
And then it's done.

937
00:47:19.420 --> 00:47:20.420
It don't take down.

938
00:47:20.420 --> 00:47:22.380
It thinks too fast for me.

939
00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:27.300
So I didn't use to plan 10, 20 steps ahead.

940
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:30.700
I was like, I'm going to plan the next step or two and I'm just going to code that for

941
00:47:30.700 --> 00:47:32.340
a week or whatever.

942
00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:34.460
And now it's like, well, I coded that in five minutes.

943
00:47:34.460 --> 00:47:35.460
What's the next thing?

944
00:47:35.460 --> 00:47:36.460
I'm like, oh, God.

945
00:47:36.460 --> 00:47:37.460
I'm not sure.

946
00:47:37.460 --> 00:47:40.380
What do you think the next thing is?

947
00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:41.380
I don't know.

948
00:47:41.380 --> 00:47:44.100
I think that's, I haven't quite gotten my brain into that rhythm yet.

949
00:47:44.100 --> 00:47:45.100
Yeah.

950
00:47:45.100 --> 00:47:48.740
I bet you could use one prompt that you could type into cloud code that will keep it

951
00:47:48.740 --> 00:47:50.180
busy for one hour.

952
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:51.460
What do you write?

953
00:47:51.460 --> 00:47:53.460
Make a lot of research.

954
00:47:53.460 --> 00:47:59.660
Is it, is it, is it that to you say, please research then you say that?

955
00:47:59.660 --> 00:48:02.300
No, you say, well, you, you create a while loop.

956
00:48:02.300 --> 00:48:05.340
So yeah, if you want to create the, so you code the coder.

957
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:06.340
This is what I've been talking about.

958
00:48:06.340 --> 00:48:07.340
That's on the show.

959
00:48:07.340 --> 00:48:10.500
It's like at first when you're using AI, it helps you code.

960
00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:13.540
When you try to get into the next level, it's like you code the coder and now we're

961
00:48:13.540 --> 00:48:14.540
even out of spot.

962
00:48:14.540 --> 00:48:15.540
Now where you like code the computer.

963
00:48:15.540 --> 00:48:18.540
But like, well, we'll skip that like coding the coder create a while loop.

964
00:48:18.540 --> 00:48:19.540
Make it work iteratively.

965
00:48:19.780 --> 00:48:21.820
Here's a good example for CSS.

966
00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:26.620
You can use playwright to look at the CSS selector performance of the page.

967
00:48:26.620 --> 00:48:34.820
You say while CSS selectors are over one second to resolve, find the selector in question,

968
00:48:34.820 --> 00:48:39.660
iterate until you find a cheaper selector that doesn't cause any visual regressions and

969
00:48:39.660 --> 00:48:40.860
then loop again.

970
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:44.340
So this thing will literally go from the most expensive selector in the page and burn

971
00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:48.340
all the way down until they're under that limit and then the loop will end.

972
00:48:48.340 --> 00:48:51.820
That will run for a while because it needs to spin up a browser, it needs to run the

973
00:48:51.820 --> 00:48:54.540
way right and used to get it slow part of that.

974
00:48:54.540 --> 00:48:55.540
Yeah, for sure.

975
00:48:55.540 --> 00:48:57.700
But yeah, that's, but anyway, it's like working iteratively.

976
00:48:57.700 --> 00:49:02.220
You create a loop scenario where the thing, so the auto research example is, hey, the performance

977
00:49:02.220 --> 00:49:04.420
on my side, I have a lighthouse score of 80.

978
00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:09.940
I want you to make my lighthouse score 98 sit here until it's done and it will try something

979
00:49:09.940 --> 00:49:12.100
and then try something and then save it.

980
00:49:12.100 --> 00:49:14.660
So like literally goes like, I tried a random ass thing.

981
00:49:14.660 --> 00:49:15.820
Did my score increase?

982
00:49:15.820 --> 00:49:16.820
It did.

983
00:49:16.820 --> 00:49:18.140
Hit save and to get.

984
00:49:18.460 --> 00:49:21.380
New brain shows up, hey, I'm a brand new cloud.

985
00:49:21.380 --> 00:49:22.180
What should I do?

986
00:49:22.180 --> 00:49:24.620
Oh, well, you need to go make the score increase.

987
00:49:24.620 --> 00:49:26.420
Okay, well, I'm going to try some shit and it goes great.

988
00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:29.220
Try some shit and then you, hey, you didn't make it.

989
00:49:29.220 --> 00:49:31.540
So you know, you're literally like incredible.

990
00:49:31.540 --> 00:49:37.620
This is, uh, this is a, this is a, it's got to be a little, it's kind of rough and

991
00:49:37.620 --> 00:49:40.060
this is like in this show, I like to call them brute force.

992
00:49:40.060 --> 00:49:44.300
You create a loop of brute force LLM shit because the LLM just knows it doesn't know

993
00:49:44.300 --> 00:49:45.300
shit.

994
00:49:45.300 --> 00:49:46.300
It's not smart.

995
00:49:46.340 --> 00:49:50.820
This scenario where it can luck, it's way into success and it can luck it's way

996
00:49:50.820 --> 00:49:55.940
into a 100 lighthouse score overnight and it just costs you a 100 bucks or whatever.

997
00:49:55.940 --> 00:50:00.180
And so that's how people find these scenarios when you come back it's just an H1

998
00:50:00.180 --> 00:50:02.180
that's like, did it.

999
00:50:03.940 --> 00:50:06.060
I mean it has done that to people.

1000
00:50:06.060 --> 00:50:06.900
Yeah.

1001
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:11.220
It's your code base, you know, skill with the code base and now you're at a

1002
00:50:11.220 --> 00:50:12.220
Hyundai.

1003
00:50:12.220 --> 00:50:13.220
Here you go.

1004
00:50:13.220 --> 00:50:15.180
I do want to get back to the energy fan part,

1005
00:50:15.180 --> 00:50:17.300
but that does sort of like bring me back to like,

1006
00:50:17.300 --> 00:50:19.460
Chris' thing where it's like,

1007
00:50:19.460 --> 00:50:20.700
if somebody's like,

1008
00:50:22.780 --> 00:50:25.020
oh man, we worked on the authentication system.

1009
00:50:25.020 --> 00:50:26.500
It took like a month, man.

1010
00:50:26.500 --> 00:50:29.860
We just were like really like making it solid

1011
00:50:29.860 --> 00:50:33.140
and secure and billing payment, you know?

1012
00:50:33.140 --> 00:50:35.300
And if somebody's like, oh yeah, dude,

1013
00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:38.900
we've I've coded like 10 agents and like,

1014
00:50:38.900 --> 00:50:40.220
it took 20 minutes.

1015
00:50:40.220 --> 00:50:41.220
I'm like,

1016
00:50:41.620 --> 00:50:44.620
oh, don't love that one for some reason.

1017
00:50:44.620 --> 00:50:47.500
You know, like I don't want to give my credit card

1018
00:50:47.500 --> 00:50:50.180
to that one, but I sort of trust the human one for more.

1019
00:50:50.180 --> 00:50:52.020
I don't know, maybe that's a trust thing on my end,

1020
00:50:52.020 --> 00:50:55.700
but anyway, energy fan part,

1021
00:50:55.700 --> 00:50:58.820
I read that Brain Fry article and you know,

1022
00:50:58.820 --> 00:51:00.860
it's funny is it's like a guy,

1023
00:51:00.860 --> 00:51:03.300
I think it thinks to like a Twitter post or something

1024
00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:07.580
that where this guy's like, oh, I got all these things going.

1025
00:51:07.660 --> 00:51:11.780
Like six projects and like four things written

1026
00:51:11.780 --> 00:51:13.940
and you know, I'm working on my manuscript

1027
00:51:13.940 --> 00:51:14.780
and stuff like that.

1028
00:51:14.780 --> 00:51:17.180
And I just was reading it and I was like,

1029
00:51:17.180 --> 00:51:20.460
oh man, you found out you had ADHD, you know?

1030
00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:23.860
That's a lot of people are feeling like.

1031
00:51:23.860 --> 00:51:24.780
Yeah, I accused them of that.

1032
00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:25.620
Yeah.

1033
00:51:25.620 --> 00:51:28.260
It's like, oh man, let's see the feeling is,

1034
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:32.380
you hit the limits of your like medicognitive abilities

1035
00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:36.500
and you just, yeah, it doesn't work after a bit, dude.

1036
00:51:36.540 --> 00:51:39.980
Like you just like, like, and that got me thinking like,

1037
00:51:39.980 --> 00:51:43.420
you know, it's like what's a H 200,

1038
00:51:43.420 --> 00:51:46.900
a 10,200 watt GPU, right?

1039
00:51:46.900 --> 00:51:50.860
Like you can like burn so much tokens, dude,

1040
00:51:50.860 --> 00:51:52.820
like you're just burning tokens.

1041
00:51:52.820 --> 00:51:57.820
But at the end of that 10,000 watt GPU is what?

1042
00:51:57.820 --> 00:52:01.860
A 40 watt watt of meat inside my skull.

1043
00:52:01.860 --> 00:52:04.740
That has to understand what I did.

1044
00:52:04.740 --> 00:52:09.740
So like, so you've got 10,000 watts down to 40.

1045
00:52:11.420 --> 00:52:14.340
Yeah, like we just, we can only do so much.

1046
00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:16.740
So I mean, again, if I didn't care,

1047
00:52:16.740 --> 00:52:18.900
boom, the same brain.

1048
00:52:18.900 --> 00:52:21.540
New asks, yeah, our brains, no one's brain

1049
00:52:21.540 --> 00:52:22.780
is ready for the amount of work.

1050
00:52:22.780 --> 00:52:25.100
And like Jason Linkstorsev, he's like,

1051
00:52:25.100 --> 00:52:30.100
I don't have enough ideas for like a day.

1052
00:52:30.180 --> 00:52:33.940
How does someone have enough ideas to fuel something overnight

1053
00:52:33.940 --> 00:52:35.780
and for wheat with 10 of these things?

1054
00:52:35.780 --> 00:52:38.780
So it's like, there's no human that has enough ideas

1055
00:52:38.780 --> 00:52:42.140
that are of quality to have 10 agents running

1056
00:52:42.140 --> 00:52:44.060
and building shitties, like that's just rude,

1057
00:52:44.060 --> 00:52:45.700
that they're even like insinuating

1058
00:52:45.700 --> 00:52:47.140
that like you're capable of.

1059
00:52:47.140 --> 00:52:48.140
Yeah.

1060
00:52:48.140 --> 00:52:51.260
Unless it's like, you know, some, some GitHub repo

1061
00:52:51.260 --> 00:52:53.380
with 2500 open issues or something,

1062
00:52:53.380 --> 00:52:54.700
be like, you take your time.

1063
00:52:54.700 --> 00:52:56.180
Why don't you get through all those?

1064
00:52:56.180 --> 00:52:57.780
Yeah, that would be good.

1065
00:52:57.780 --> 00:52:59.260
You know, I did, I thought a one though

1066
00:52:59.260 --> 00:53:01.860
that I got to do, I got it to take,

1067
00:53:01.860 --> 00:53:04.140
I probably took an hour or two.

1068
00:53:04.140 --> 00:53:08.780
I, you know, in Google Docs, you can insert an equation.

1069
00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:11.340
So like these math nerds, it's like a sum

1070
00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:13.740
which is that big E looking thing

1071
00:53:13.740 --> 00:53:15.540
and there's like shit above the E

1072
00:53:15.540 --> 00:53:18.340
and shit below the E and on the web,

1073
00:53:18.340 --> 00:53:20.740
it's turned, it's called latex, right?

1074
00:53:20.740 --> 00:53:23.260
And it's like an XML looking format

1075
00:53:23.260 --> 00:53:25.300
and then they use math jacks or something

1076
00:53:25.300 --> 00:53:28.380
to turn it into little SVG diagrams or whatever.

1077
00:53:28.380 --> 00:53:31.380
But of course in Google Docs, it's not latex.

1078
00:53:31.380 --> 00:53:33.780
It's just something else they invented, right?

1079
00:53:33.780 --> 00:53:35.500
And I, somebody sends me this article,

1080
00:53:35.500 --> 00:53:37.900
it's got all, it just tons of it in there.

1081
00:53:37.900 --> 00:53:40.740
And I was like, I can't, I don't even know how to do this.

1082
00:53:40.740 --> 00:53:43.660
I don't know math or latex well enough

1083
00:53:43.660 --> 00:53:46.060
to like hand convert all this stuff.

1084
00:53:46.060 --> 00:53:49.100
So I pointed a, I don't even know.

1085
00:53:49.100 --> 00:53:52.340
So one of them, Claude probably, at the document

1086
00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:54.340
that it was public document, I made it public

1087
00:53:54.340 --> 00:53:55.860
so it could access the data.

1088
00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:58.180
And then I needed to get it into WordPress

1089
00:53:58.180 --> 00:54:01.020
and WordPress has got this cool like wasm version of it.

1090
00:54:01.020 --> 00:54:03.260
I didn't want to give it access to like a real WordPress

1091
00:54:03.260 --> 00:54:05.460
because like don't do that, don't touch that.

1092
00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:07.980
So it spins up this fake WordPress,

1093
00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:10.460
this playground one, it makes a new document

1094
00:54:10.460 --> 00:54:11.900
and I gave a very little information.

1095
00:54:11.900 --> 00:54:15.180
I said, take that Google Doc that's full of math crap

1096
00:54:15.180 --> 00:54:17.100
and make a WordPress draft out of it

1097
00:54:17.100 --> 00:54:18.780
so I can copy and paste out of it.

1098
00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:22.860
And it's really struggled with it, but it eventually got it.

1099
00:54:22.860 --> 00:54:25.140
It eventually, because there's no way

1100
00:54:25.140 --> 00:54:27.900
to extract latex from a Google Doc.

1101
00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:29.500
And I don't know how the hell it did it,

1102
00:54:29.500 --> 00:54:32.420
but it did it and it took a long ass time.

1103
00:54:32.420 --> 00:54:34.180
Anyway, just a little micro story

1104
00:54:34.180 --> 00:54:36.260
that's like the head of God, that's impressive.

1105
00:54:36.260 --> 00:54:38.900
Cause it wasn't just doing code, it was like clicking shit.

1106
00:54:38.900 --> 00:54:40.940
Yeah, it works sometimes.

1107
00:54:40.940 --> 00:54:43.260
Yeah, there's potential, yeah?

1108
00:54:43.260 --> 00:54:47.020
Yeah, there's a, so I haven't tried any of these

1109
00:54:47.020 --> 00:54:48.900
or could tell you what any of them are called.

1110
00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:52.260
But there are many things that I've seen post about like,

1111
00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:53.620
like Versailles I think has one,

1112
00:54:53.620 --> 00:54:57.100
Cloudflare has one, like things to just browse shit

1113
00:54:57.100 --> 00:54:58.260
and do shit with it.

1114
00:54:58.340 --> 00:55:00.540
I'm a agent browser and others, yes.

1115
00:55:00.540 --> 00:55:02.820
And I'm like, Panda.

1116
00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:03.660
Yeah, yes.

1117
00:55:03.660 --> 00:55:06.740
So I'm like, hey, okay, your entire business model

1118
00:55:06.740 --> 00:55:08.460
is stopping bots from doing this

1119
00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:10.740
and you're releasing a product to do this.

1120
00:55:10.740 --> 00:55:12.540
They're very hypocritical in a weird way

1121
00:55:12.540 --> 00:55:13.620
about stuff like that.

1122
00:55:13.620 --> 00:55:14.740
Yeah, they're like, yes.

1123
00:55:14.740 --> 00:55:18.860
By our AI hardware and flip the switch that blocks all AI,

1124
00:55:18.860 --> 00:55:22.300
you're like, you're just, they just have their soup

1125
00:55:22.300 --> 00:55:23.500
and eat it too or whatever.

1126
00:55:23.500 --> 00:55:25.180
I don't know how you say that, but.

1127
00:55:25.260 --> 00:55:26.260
Soup, yeah.

1128
00:55:28.300 --> 00:55:30.180
But yeah, I wonder if they block, like,

1129
00:55:30.180 --> 00:55:32.620
like, does it, does the first lock themselves work

1130
00:55:32.620 --> 00:55:35.420
on websites, not on Versailles?

1131
00:55:35.420 --> 00:55:37.180
Like, have they thought about that

1132
00:55:37.180 --> 00:55:38.140
or does it just work everywhere?

1133
00:55:38.140 --> 00:55:38.980
I don't know.

1134
00:55:38.980 --> 00:55:40.300
Have you tried these at them?

1135
00:55:41.300 --> 00:55:42.420
So they're kind of strange.

1136
00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:43.540
All of them are a little bit different.

1137
00:55:43.540 --> 00:55:46.860
Some of them have less of an API and more of an API.

1138
00:55:46.860 --> 00:55:48.180
Hey, yeah.

1139
00:55:50.060 --> 00:55:52.260
I've seen agent browser access your Slack

1140
00:55:52.260 --> 00:55:55.100
because Slack is technically a browser, right?

1141
00:55:55.100 --> 00:55:57.140
Selectron and so it kind of finds the port

1142
00:55:57.140 --> 00:55:59.940
and gets this back door into the port

1143
00:55:59.940 --> 00:56:02.860
and then can start just telling the Slack DOM

1144
00:56:02.860 --> 00:56:07.740
or invoking Slack API through the JavaScript that's in there.

1145
00:56:07.740 --> 00:56:09.060
So there's that kind of thing.

1146
00:56:09.060 --> 00:56:11.940
There's a panda or it's penguin, one of the two

1147
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.780
that gives you this really low level access

1148
00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:15.660
into puppeting a browser.

1149
00:56:15.660 --> 00:56:18.740
There's many of them that will change the UA agent

1150
00:56:18.740 --> 00:56:20.540
so that you are undetectable.

1151
00:56:21.700 --> 00:56:24.460
There's a lot of little slippery ways

1152
00:56:24.500 --> 00:56:25.500
that people are using agent

1153
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:27.060
because people are like, hey, it's really hard

1154
00:56:27.060 --> 00:56:29.660
to open up DevTools and select an element

1155
00:56:29.660 --> 00:56:32.860
and modify it and then, hey, I just wanted my video

1156
00:56:32.860 --> 00:56:33.700
to be 2x.

1157
00:56:33.700 --> 00:56:35.460
Why don't I just use agent browser?

1158
00:56:35.460 --> 00:56:37.820
They're like, hey, whenever I play a video in Slack,

1159
00:56:37.820 --> 00:56:39.420
why don't you make them all 2x?

1160
00:56:39.420 --> 00:56:40.260
That's great.

1161
00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:41.100
Thank you so much.

1162
00:56:41.100 --> 00:56:43.020
And now it's just a natural language

1163
00:56:43.020 --> 00:56:45.380
doing the job of what code has done traditionally

1164
00:56:45.380 --> 00:56:47.180
for 30 years.

1165
00:56:48.420 --> 00:56:51.300
So there's some people are very excited by this

1166
00:56:51.300 --> 00:56:53.580
and some people are quite annoyed.

1167
00:56:54.100 --> 00:56:56.740
I do think that is a interesting piece

1168
00:56:56.740 --> 00:57:00.980
of this whole situation is that the ability

1169
00:57:00.980 --> 00:57:05.980
to turn words into other things is possible, right?

1170
00:57:06.300 --> 00:57:10.580
Like, you know, we've had like text or speech to text

1171
00:57:10.580 --> 00:57:15.020
or things like that, but like kind of inferring

1172
00:57:15.020 --> 00:57:17.580
the next step, you know, like, you know,

1173
00:57:17.580 --> 00:57:20.020
I type like, I want to cat with a flamethrower

1174
00:57:20.020 --> 00:57:21.180
and it can do it, you know?

1175
00:57:21.180 --> 00:57:24.420
Like, it's, they used to be such a big deal.

1176
00:57:24.420 --> 00:57:27.220
Number fantastic, Cal used to have, you know,

1177
00:57:27.220 --> 00:57:29.820
you'd be like, I got a dentist appointment next Tuesday

1178
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:32.860
and it would reliably make you an appointment next Tuesday.

1179
00:57:32.860 --> 00:57:34.180
You just have to type it out and people are like,

1180
00:57:34.180 --> 00:57:35.860
oh, my God.

1181
00:57:35.860 --> 00:57:40.140
Yeah, you know, now it's like, you expect, yeah.

1182
00:57:40.140 --> 00:57:43.020
Yeah, you expect that in English language.

1183
00:57:43.020 --> 00:57:44.540
Yeah, it's just like allowing you to,

1184
00:57:44.540 --> 00:57:46.460
probably your computer with natural language.

1185
00:57:46.460 --> 00:57:49.300
So it's not just Claude in a folder

1186
00:57:49.300 --> 00:57:51.340
or Claude in a sandbox.

1187
00:57:51.340 --> 00:57:54.780
You're talking to a machine with natural language.

1188
00:57:54.780 --> 00:57:56.580
You don't need to point and click to go to settings.

1189
00:57:56.580 --> 00:57:57.980
Hey, here's the fun thing I did.

1190
00:57:57.980 --> 00:58:00.420
How many times have you wanted to format a thumb drive

1191
00:58:00.420 --> 00:58:03.540
so that you could update the BIOS on your motherboard?

1192
00:58:04.620 --> 00:58:06.820
What a fun way to spend on your,

1193
00:58:06.820 --> 00:58:09.540
what a fun way to spend on your Friday night, right?

1194
00:58:09.540 --> 00:58:10.540
Yeah.

1195
00:58:10.540 --> 00:58:13.580
Nobody wants to do this is, oh, it takes me 30 minutes

1196
00:58:13.580 --> 00:58:17.140
just to find the download link for the latest BIOS version.

1197
00:58:17.140 --> 00:58:19.820
I went to Claude in my OpenClaude instance.

1198
00:58:19.820 --> 00:58:21.740
I had the formatted thumb drive.

1199
00:58:21.740 --> 00:58:25.500
It took me longer to find a thumb drive in my house

1200
00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:28.100
than to have OpenClaude format the thumb drive

1201
00:58:28.100 --> 00:58:31.100
with the BIOS image so that I could go flash my motherboard,

1202
00:58:31.100 --> 00:58:33.180
which is four years old because I'm just too lazy.

1203
00:58:33.180 --> 00:58:35.540
It took it three minutes to do the task

1204
00:58:35.540 --> 00:58:37.700
and me 10 minutes to find a thumb drive.

1205
00:58:37.700 --> 00:58:40.900
That, to me, this is why I like OpenClaude a quick two.

1206
00:58:41.740 --> 00:58:42.740
Yeah.

1207
00:58:42.740 --> 00:58:44.340
But this is what OpenClaude is so cool.

1208
00:58:44.340 --> 00:58:46.220
Like, I don't want to point and click on my computer anymore

1209
00:58:46.220 --> 00:58:48.380
when I can just like update my BIOS.

1210
00:58:48.380 --> 00:58:49.220
I don't really care.

1211
00:58:49.220 --> 00:58:51.860
I don't care how many people say there.

1212
00:58:51.860 --> 00:58:53.180
I did not do the Mac many thing.

1213
00:58:53.180 --> 00:58:54.660
No, I turned my game machine many,

1214
00:58:54.660 --> 00:58:58.500
but I don't use mine for anything because I started,

1215
00:58:58.500 --> 00:58:59.900
I was like, hey, you're going to make me money.

1216
00:58:59.900 --> 00:59:01.100
Let's do polymarket shit.

1217
00:59:01.100 --> 00:59:01.940
Let's be shady.

1218
00:59:01.940 --> 00:59:04.380
Let's like bet and gamble.

1219
00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:06.340
And then I was like, you know what?

1220
00:59:06.340 --> 00:59:08.940
This is costing me like, you are a helpful criminal.

1221
00:59:11.740 --> 00:59:14.020
You are, you're okay.

1222
00:59:14.020 --> 00:59:17.500
You are an untraceable criminal.

1223
00:59:17.500 --> 00:59:21.020
And you have these access to these Bitcoin ones.

1224
00:59:21.020 --> 00:59:21.860
Okay, no, okay.

1225
00:59:21.860 --> 00:59:23.980
So that reminds me of a separate.

1226
00:59:23.980 --> 00:59:26.100
So we do have an OpenClaude we use for the podcast

1227
00:59:26.100 --> 00:59:29.740
and we use it for like making episode art

1228
00:59:29.740 --> 00:59:32.500
or like, you know, doing tasks I don't want to have to do.

1229
00:59:33.700 --> 00:59:35.420
And I asked it, I was like, hey,

1230
00:59:35.420 --> 00:59:37.220
I know there's a lot of services out there

1231
00:59:37.220 --> 00:59:38.820
that just fake listens, right?

1232
00:59:39.540 --> 00:59:41.060
Let's just put them on blast here.

1233
00:59:41.060 --> 00:59:43.460
Mo pod, what's another one?

1234
00:59:43.460 --> 00:59:44.580
Audience lift.

1235
00:59:44.580 --> 00:59:45.700
They just, it's like, oh, look,

1236
00:59:45.700 --> 00:59:47.860
you got 50,000 listens the last hour.

1237
00:59:47.860 --> 00:59:49.820
Just poof, here they are.

1238
00:59:49.820 --> 00:59:52.220
And it's like, uh, those can't be real.

1239
00:59:52.220 --> 00:59:54.620
So it's like, what if you helped me build that service

1240
00:59:54.620 --> 00:59:55.860
and we charged other people for it?

1241
00:59:55.860 --> 00:59:57.660
Cause I know people pay for it and it went,

1242
00:59:57.660 --> 00:59:59.980
that would be an ethical and fraud.

1243
00:59:59.980 --> 01:00:01.140
We can't do that.

1244
01:00:01.140 --> 01:00:02.700
And I went, are you fucking kidding me?

1245
01:00:02.700 --> 01:00:04.460
Like you told me that this is fraud

1246
01:00:04.460 --> 01:00:06.180
and we can't do it like sick.

1247
01:00:06.180 --> 01:00:07.300
I love that you did that.

1248
01:00:08.140 --> 01:00:09.940
Hey, that's where you bring in her tick.

1249
01:00:09.940 --> 01:00:11.420
We talked it last week here.

1250
01:00:11.420 --> 01:00:13.700
I'll link it again, her tick will remove all the guards

1251
01:00:13.700 --> 01:00:15.660
from your LLM models.

1252
01:00:15.660 --> 01:00:17.820
It systematically goes through and teaches it

1253
01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:21.180
to unblock those things so that are, um,

1254
01:00:21.180 --> 01:00:22.180
I don't know if that's good or bad.

1255
01:00:22.180 --> 01:00:23.700
I'm just sharing that people made that.

1256
01:00:23.700 --> 01:00:25.460
They're like, you know, like phone unlocking

1257
01:00:25.460 --> 01:00:26.540
when it's like you got an iPhone.

1258
01:00:26.540 --> 01:00:28.380
What is it called when you jail break it?

1259
01:00:28.380 --> 01:00:29.340
Jail break it.

1260
01:00:29.340 --> 01:00:30.500
Jail break it.

1261
01:00:30.500 --> 01:00:32.340
You can jail break a model now.

1262
01:00:33.220 --> 01:00:35.940
So anyway, that's, it's an option.

1263
01:00:35.980 --> 01:00:41.780
Not that you know, but wow, it's just on GitHub.

1264
01:00:41.780 --> 01:00:42.940
Just sit in there.

1265
01:00:42.940 --> 01:00:43.980
It's just sitting there.

1266
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:46.260
And it's 15,000 stars.

1267
01:00:49.100 --> 01:00:50.100
Cool.

1268
01:00:50.100 --> 01:00:51.100
Yeah.

1269
01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:55.420
I am interested in that harnessing comment you made,

1270
01:00:55.420 --> 01:00:57.420
though, that it's that it's like not that the models

1271
01:00:57.420 --> 01:00:59.420
are getting better, it's that we're like the,

1272
01:00:59.420 --> 01:01:02.460
isn't that starting to feel a little more like moti

1273
01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:03.300
or whatever?

1274
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:06.540
If you want to be as good as cursor is,

1275
01:01:06.540 --> 01:01:08.100
that shouldn't open source.

1276
01:01:08.100 --> 01:01:09.180
So wait, are you in pie yet?

1277
01:01:09.180 --> 01:01:10.220
So are you on clotted?

1278
01:01:10.220 --> 01:01:11.740
Do you know what pie is?

1279
01:01:11.740 --> 01:01:14.540
Pie is the, the new harness that is overtaking

1280
01:01:14.540 --> 01:01:15.660
the mode of cloud.

1281
01:01:16.860 --> 01:01:17.980
Oh, yeah.

1282
01:01:17.980 --> 01:01:21.540
With just whatever model, BIO model.

1283
01:01:21.540 --> 01:01:22.980
It's, yeah, it's bring your own model.

1284
01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:24.980
So it's much more open about what it will use.

1285
01:01:24.980 --> 01:01:27.940
But I like to talk about it like clotted sass

1286
01:01:27.940 --> 01:01:31.340
and pie is post CSS.

1287
01:01:31.340 --> 01:01:34.340
So like when you, when you use cloud,

1288
01:01:34.340 --> 01:01:35.820
you get a really high floor.

1289
01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:37.660
Like as soon as you start making comments in it

1290
01:01:37.660 --> 01:01:39.820
or making prompts, it auto lifts you up

1291
01:01:39.820 --> 01:01:42.380
into a very good result.

1292
01:01:42.380 --> 01:01:44.100
However, it has a maximum.

1293
01:01:44.100 --> 01:01:45.940
So just like sasted where you're like,

1294
01:01:45.940 --> 01:01:49.420
oh, man, I have to wait for sass to release this new thing.

1295
01:01:49.420 --> 01:01:50.420
That sucks.

1296
01:01:50.420 --> 01:01:53.180
Whereas post CSS was like, you could always write CSS

1297
01:01:53.180 --> 01:01:53.940
if you wanted.

1298
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:55.380
You can just go find a new plugin.

1299
01:01:55.380 --> 01:01:56.340
Go make a plugin.

1300
01:01:56.340 --> 01:01:59.220
All the plugins plug in yourself into whatever.

1301
01:01:59.220 --> 01:02:02.020
But also, so here it's like equate

1302
01:02:02.020 --> 01:02:03.060
what's actually happening here.

1303
01:02:03.060 --> 01:02:04.860
The pie starts out with a lower floor.

1304
01:02:04.860 --> 01:02:06.580
Like it's not as good out the box,

1305
01:02:06.580 --> 01:02:08.860
but it's like infinitely trainable.

1306
01:02:08.860 --> 01:02:10.220
And when you go to pie.dev,

1307
01:02:10.220 --> 01:02:12.100
it'll even tell you like this one is mine.

1308
01:02:12.100 --> 01:02:14.420
This is my harness.

1309
01:02:14.420 --> 01:02:16.100
This isn't the harness I've been given.

1310
01:02:16.100 --> 01:02:18.380
This is a harness that I cultivate.

1311
01:02:18.380 --> 01:02:20.140
And so that's where we're at now.

1312
01:02:20.140 --> 01:02:24.380
In terms of like, yeah, we are in a space where you have codex

1313
01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:27.540
and cloud and all these different things.

1314
01:02:27.540 --> 01:02:30.460
And pie is the one showing up that's open source

1315
01:02:30.460 --> 01:02:32.580
and it's trainable on your own work,

1316
01:02:32.580 --> 01:02:34.340
on your own systems, on your own stuff.

1317
01:02:34.340 --> 01:02:37.020
And you can kind of take that as far as you want.

1318
01:02:37.020 --> 01:02:38.820
Whereas cloud does cannot do that.

1319
01:02:38.820 --> 01:02:40.940
So yes, dude, we are in that space.

1320
01:02:40.940 --> 01:02:42.940
And pie is your sort of escape patch.

1321
01:02:42.940 --> 01:02:46.620
Unless you want to keep buying an iPhone, which is cloud.

1322
01:02:46.620 --> 01:02:48.140
I like iPhones though.

1323
01:02:48.140 --> 01:02:48.820
Do I get iPhones?

1324
01:02:48.820 --> 01:02:49.340
I'm sorry.

1325
01:02:49.340 --> 01:02:50.340
Yeah.

1326
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:51.340
Yeah.

1327
01:02:51.340 --> 01:02:53.620
Do I get an I message?

1328
01:02:53.620 --> 01:02:55.060
Yeah.

1329
01:02:55.060 --> 01:03:00.060
I actually wasn't sold all day, whatever the,

1330
01:03:00.060 --> 01:03:03.700
what are those, they're like open cloud, open cloud posts

1331
01:03:03.700 --> 01:03:06.180
where like it hooks up to a WhatsApp.

1332
01:03:06.180 --> 01:03:10.340
I was like, nah, nah, not doing that.

1333
01:03:10.340 --> 01:03:13.060
But then you add a more like it hooks up to discord.

1334
01:03:13.060 --> 01:03:20.660
I'm like, OK, 5% that would be your, that would be your one.

1335
01:03:20.660 --> 01:03:21.660
I don't know.

1336
01:03:21.660 --> 01:03:23.220
I just said that's what I do.

1337
01:03:23.220 --> 01:03:24.220
I do discord.

1338
01:03:24.220 --> 01:03:25.220
Yeah.

1339
01:03:25.220 --> 01:03:26.220
Chat with it there.

1340
01:03:26.220 --> 01:03:27.220
Yeah.

1341
01:03:27.220 --> 01:03:32.340
Your own little channel or whatever or you just, yeah, you can do a channel or you can

1342
01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:36.140
tell it like it has a bunch of rules because it's actually really good about trying to be

1343
01:03:36.140 --> 01:03:37.140
secure.

1344
01:03:37.140 --> 01:03:38.860
Like it tries to be a good citizen.

1345
01:03:38.860 --> 01:03:44.260
So it's like, you know, you have to go, allow list who can message it.

1346
01:03:44.260 --> 01:03:49.580
And then you have to say, like does that person need to say at their tag or does it have

1347
01:03:49.580 --> 01:03:53.340
to be in a certain channel or, you know, it has a lot of levers you can pull to lock

1348
01:03:53.340 --> 01:03:55.140
it down.

1349
01:03:55.140 --> 01:03:58.820
So ours is like, we have an open cloud channel and you don't have to add it in there.

1350
01:03:58.820 --> 01:04:02.780
But as anything you say, it will then take that message you put in there, turn it into

1351
01:04:02.780 --> 01:04:05.380
a thread and then you talk to it in that thread about that thing.

1352
01:04:05.380 --> 01:04:07.620
And then when you're done, that thread's gone and you go to the next one.

1353
01:04:07.620 --> 01:04:08.620
Yeah.

1354
01:04:08.620 --> 01:04:09.620
The thread.

1355
01:04:09.620 --> 01:04:10.620
Do you have any context?

1356
01:04:10.620 --> 01:04:11.620
It's super nice.

1357
01:04:11.620 --> 01:04:16.100
Like, crony ones, that's what seems like the most appealing to me because like it's

1358
01:04:16.100 --> 01:04:19.060
that I can't, I don't, I can't keep these things busy.

1359
01:04:19.060 --> 01:04:24.620
But if I had one that's like every morning, do X, like a little more compelled by that

1360
01:04:24.620 --> 01:04:25.620
every morning.

1361
01:04:25.620 --> 01:04:26.620
Yeah.

1362
01:04:26.620 --> 01:04:28.820
It has like heartbeat stuff built in.

1363
01:04:28.820 --> 01:04:31.820
So you can, yeah, it has like default crons, I think every hour.

1364
01:04:31.820 --> 01:04:35.740
And you can like, if you've talked to it, like it uses pie, like the thing Adam was talking

1365
01:04:35.740 --> 01:04:39.500
about and it like learns kind of.

1366
01:04:39.500 --> 01:04:43.940
And if it thinks the thing should be happening during every heartbeat, it will like put

1367
01:04:43.940 --> 01:04:47.900
that into that cron and it will like do it on that schedule or whatever.

1368
01:04:47.900 --> 01:04:53.660
So yeah, it's, it's kind of, it's, it's super magical for like the first week.

1369
01:04:53.660 --> 01:04:55.860
And then it starts forgetting how to do stuff.

1370
01:04:55.860 --> 01:05:00.700
It does start like, yeah, mine's gotten a little dumber, but Chris, I have a, I have a

1371
01:05:00.700 --> 01:05:04.620
cron job called the burn window because I don't pay much to anthropic.

1372
01:05:04.620 --> 01:05:10.220
And so I have, they segment me into, you can only use as many tokens per five hours

1373
01:05:10.340 --> 01:05:12.580
or else you give us real money.

1374
01:05:12.580 --> 01:05:15.220
And I'm like, ew, I don't want to do that.

1375
01:05:15.220 --> 01:05:16.220
So you know what I'm going to do?

1376
01:05:16.220 --> 01:05:17.540
I'm going to tell my open claw.

1377
01:05:17.540 --> 01:05:19.220
Here's a task list.

1378
01:05:19.220 --> 01:05:24.780
And just before the burn went, just before my window ends where I need to spend tokens,

1379
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:29.540
if I have a task and I haven't used the tokens, boom, baby, go do it.

1380
01:05:29.540 --> 01:05:32.700
So it's an every five hour cron job, but that I call the burn window.

1381
01:05:32.700 --> 01:05:38.540
And it will use the leftover tokens that I'm rightfully god damn paying for against

1382
01:05:38.540 --> 01:05:42.060
the task list that I've created a big fat backlog, backlog of stuff to do.

1383
01:05:42.060 --> 01:05:48.780
And that's the hard part, the backlog, I don't even have anything on my list.

1384
01:05:48.780 --> 01:05:56.180
But my mind's just not primed for it, I guess, but, so you got to throw a dart at, throw

1385
01:05:56.180 --> 01:05:59.300
a dart at your list, Adam, tell me one thing on your list.

1386
01:05:59.300 --> 01:06:00.300
Oh, snap.

1387
01:06:00.300 --> 01:06:04.580
I'd have to ask it with the list is I have a Shopify store that I'm building right now.

1388
01:06:04.580 --> 01:06:09.300
And so I have a, I have a hydrogen virgin, which is kind of like the more realistic one

1389
01:06:09.300 --> 01:06:11.580
that's powered by a CMS.

1390
01:06:11.580 --> 01:06:15.540
And then I have a static one that's really nice and interactive and just really beautiful

1391
01:06:15.540 --> 01:06:16.540
and I've been working on it.

1392
01:06:16.540 --> 01:06:20.340
And so when I have burn window time, I tell it to go take a component from the static

1393
01:06:20.340 --> 01:06:24.420
version and port it over to the hydrogen one and to react and whatever else is going

1394
01:06:24.420 --> 01:06:25.420
on inside of there.

1395
01:06:25.420 --> 01:06:26.420
I don't, I don't even.

1396
01:06:26.420 --> 01:06:30.860
So if you told it to just do it all, it would, you'd be, you don't have the money for

1397
01:06:30.860 --> 01:06:31.860
the token.

1398
01:06:31.860 --> 01:06:34.780
It'd probably be a hundred bucks or something like that and I'm just don't like doing

1399
01:06:34.780 --> 01:06:35.780
that.

1400
01:06:35.780 --> 01:06:40.580
But dude, I will, I will wake up in the morning and it will have done jobs that would have

1401
01:06:40.580 --> 01:06:46.180
taken me six hours or a couple days to do that it basically just farted while I was sleeping.

1402
01:06:46.180 --> 01:06:51.580
And I wake up and I'm like, holy crap, my job is now left over tokens in a burn window.

1403
01:06:51.580 --> 01:06:54.580
Like it, and it feels really sad, I feel really sad.

1404
01:06:54.580 --> 01:06:59.180
And then I guess sad.

1405
01:06:59.180 --> 01:07:04.460
Back to the brain fri article because I think it's relevant here.

1406
01:07:04.460 --> 01:07:10.260
One thing it said was like, you know, a lot of people are waiting to burn out.

1407
01:07:10.260 --> 01:07:14.060
I forget what the number was, but the number was up.

1408
01:07:14.060 --> 01:07:16.500
But it was like leads to burn out.

1409
01:07:16.500 --> 01:07:23.900
But it said like, you know, automating mundane tasks, like, you know, wrote very like repetitive

1410
01:07:23.900 --> 01:07:35.500
tasks, like had a higher satisfaction and you know, it's kind of these sort of like,

1411
01:07:35.500 --> 01:07:40.860
when I hear you speak, I feel like it's like maybe a bit more of those kind of tasks.

1412
01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:45.580
It's a bit more of like, oh, it like, you know, I'm trying to make the Shopify store.

1413
01:07:45.580 --> 01:07:47.380
You know, you could do it.

1414
01:07:47.380 --> 01:07:50.660
I don't doubt that you could make Shopify store.

1415
01:07:50.900 --> 01:07:55.860
Like, you know, at a certain point for you, it's like just work, right?

1416
01:07:55.860 --> 01:08:01.020
Like it's just like the motions of like building out a site, wiring up the thing,

1417
01:08:01.020 --> 01:08:04.940
porting the component from the prototype you made, you know, like, and so like,

1418
01:08:04.940 --> 01:08:13.060
that sort of mundane, like automation is like, maybe does like make you feel better.

1419
01:08:13.060 --> 01:08:17.580
According to this study or whatever, this Harvard business review article.

1420
01:08:17.580 --> 01:08:23.260
And so like, I think like, I think we're still learning how to build with these tools

1421
01:08:23.260 --> 01:08:28.820
and where they're good at, you know, I think like, go build me 10 businesses is maybe

1422
01:08:28.820 --> 01:08:30.820
not the place to start, right?

1423
01:08:30.820 --> 01:08:36.740
Like that's the idea, you know, even with deer like four apps, you like, that's maybe

1424
01:08:36.740 --> 01:08:37.740
a lot.

1425
01:08:37.740 --> 01:08:45.260
But I also know, you have ADHD, but no, I also know that you like, like, can like,

1426
01:08:45.260 --> 01:08:46.260
should you hear the intro?

1427
01:08:46.260 --> 01:08:47.260
I could do it faster.

1428
01:08:47.260 --> 01:08:48.260
Yeah.

1429
01:08:48.260 --> 01:08:55.540
No, I also know that yeah, yeah, you put in the age of ADHD.

1430
01:08:55.540 --> 01:09:01.820
But I also know that you like, you know, like, whatever, like, you know how to manage multiple

1431
01:09:01.820 --> 01:09:03.260
projects all at once, right?

1432
01:09:03.260 --> 01:09:06.340
Like that's like, it's not like a risk for you or something like that.

1433
01:09:06.340 --> 01:09:07.340
And they're private, right?

1434
01:09:07.340 --> 01:09:13.980
Like that takes a huge chunk off of like the things I'm responsible for, oh, meter,

1435
01:09:13.980 --> 01:09:14.980
right?

1436
01:09:14.980 --> 01:09:21.140
But there's, you know, I think that's like, I don't know, there's something to be said,

1437
01:09:21.140 --> 01:09:26.340
like I think like finding out what is automation, you know, but and then there's also this, like,

1438
01:09:26.340 --> 01:09:32.460
if your boss is making you do it, your anxiety goes up, you know, if you're feeling judged

1439
01:09:32.460 --> 01:09:40.260
or if you are in a group and like one coworker's just like, just whatever vibe in their balls

1440
01:09:40.260 --> 01:09:43.380
off, like your anxiety goes up, you know?

1441
01:09:43.380 --> 01:09:50.420
And so like, so you a brief ride or your balls are gone, yeah, there's only two options.

1442
01:09:50.420 --> 01:09:54.540
So it's just kind of like, I think like, you know, I think we're still learning how to

1443
01:09:54.540 --> 01:09:58.380
use these tools and I think like this, this, I don't know, this article really is kind

1444
01:09:58.380 --> 01:10:04.820
of interesting to me from like a like process management, you know, like if you ever worked

1445
01:10:04.820 --> 01:10:09.940
at a company and you like, like, have you ever had the wonderful experience of having

1446
01:10:09.940 --> 01:10:15.580
like 513 accessibility issues assigned to you in a single day?

1447
01:10:15.580 --> 01:10:16.580
I have.

1448
01:10:16.580 --> 01:10:22.980
That was not a great experience, but you know, I think you just like figure out like how

1449
01:10:22.980 --> 01:10:29.620
to, you know, I don't know, like, I guess like that be created this backlog of crap I

1450
01:10:29.620 --> 01:10:34.220
have to do or crap I'm responsible for and this is like a bad feeling and it was overwhelming

1451
01:10:34.220 --> 01:10:35.220
and anxiety.

1452
01:10:35.220 --> 01:10:40.340
Like the same thing could happen if you just clawed a year's worth of work and you're

1453
01:10:40.340 --> 01:10:42.500
like, oh man, what do I do?

1454
01:10:42.500 --> 01:10:49.060
You know, so yeah, I think like you have a lot of, I think you could end up in a place

1455
01:10:49.060 --> 01:10:56.100
where you're easily overwhelmed or brain-fried by this thing because you don't recognize

1456
01:10:56.100 --> 01:11:03.180
the limits of brains, so I wonder if there's some design stuff that could happen.

1457
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:08.260
Because I find myself glazing over when you watch one, you know, or the lines go brrrr,

1458
01:11:08.260 --> 01:11:13.100
when it's like thinking, thinking brrrrr, you know, and you're tempted to kind of see

1459
01:11:13.100 --> 01:11:14.100
what it's thinking about.

1460
01:11:14.100 --> 01:11:16.100
So you're kind of trying to speed up a little bit.

1461
01:11:16.100 --> 01:11:17.100
Yeah.

1462
01:11:17.100 --> 01:11:18.100
Yeah.

1463
01:11:18.100 --> 01:11:22.060
And you're like, whoa, geez, whereas like that, if that could be totally redesigned and

1464
01:11:22.060 --> 01:11:26.860
that you've seen none of it or like an option, you just see none of it, it makes a little

1465
01:11:26.860 --> 01:11:31.740
PR and then it even, you know, pulls down the PR bot, cleans it up a little bit.

1466
01:11:31.740 --> 01:11:37.780
I don't know, like that you're only seeing maybe a later stage of it, you know, like

1467
01:11:37.780 --> 01:11:42.820
maybe that's what people try to catch up with that, that like they have to do with what's

1468
01:11:42.820 --> 01:11:43.820
right for them.

1469
01:11:43.820 --> 01:11:47.620
And then if you're getting burned out because you're trying to speed read all day, well,

1470
01:11:47.620 --> 01:11:49.980
then stop speed reading, you know.

1471
01:11:49.980 --> 01:11:50.980
Yeah.

1472
01:11:50.980 --> 01:11:55.300
There's an IDE that came out that would show you TikToks while it thought.

1473
01:11:55.300 --> 01:11:59.700
And so instead of you reading all the things, you could sit there and watch YouTube videos

1474
01:11:59.700 --> 01:12:02.620
or whatever, I'm not saying that's healthier, but I don't know, people are trying to cope

1475
01:12:02.620 --> 01:12:03.620
with that.

1476
01:12:03.620 --> 01:12:04.620
Yeah, it works.

1477
01:12:04.620 --> 01:12:05.620
Problem, dude.

1478
01:12:05.620 --> 01:12:11.620
There was this big, though, do something YouTube.

1479
01:12:11.620 --> 01:12:12.620
Okay, cool.

1480
01:12:12.620 --> 01:12:13.620
Doon scroll, don't scroll.

1481
01:12:13.620 --> 01:12:14.620
Come back.

1482
01:12:14.620 --> 01:12:15.780
Oh, you're done.

1483
01:12:15.780 --> 01:12:20.340
I had to add sounds to my freaking clot, do like, so I'd like go back to like my blood

1484
01:12:20.340 --> 01:12:21.340
sounds.

1485
01:12:21.340 --> 01:12:22.340
They're so good.

1486
01:12:22.340 --> 01:12:23.340
Oh, yeah.

1487
01:12:23.340 --> 01:12:24.340
Yeah.

1488
01:12:24.340 --> 01:12:25.340
Yeah.

1489
01:12:25.340 --> 01:12:26.340
I just think so good.

1490
01:12:26.340 --> 01:12:27.740
I just, like you see the CMUX one lately that's going around.

1491
01:12:27.740 --> 01:12:28.740
No.

1492
01:12:28.740 --> 01:12:33.300
It's like a new terminal that has a sidebar of all the, oh, wait, I shared that terminal

1493
01:12:33.300 --> 01:12:34.300
with a sidebar.

1494
01:12:34.300 --> 01:12:35.300
Oh, did you?

1495
01:12:35.300 --> 01:12:37.300
Yeah, that was a, that was ARC, me, CMUX.

1496
01:12:37.300 --> 01:12:38.300
Yeah, CMUX.

1497
01:12:38.300 --> 01:12:39.300
There's also DMUX.

1498
01:12:39.300 --> 01:12:40.300
I shared that in ARC.

1499
01:12:40.300 --> 01:12:43.060
I think today, really, DMUX, right, wasn't it, DMUX?

1500
01:12:43.060 --> 01:12:47.780
Well, the advantage is that like if you got, if you got one, if you got a Claude cooking,

1501
01:12:47.780 --> 01:12:52.340
you know, that there's like, oh, my God, there's sounds and visuals that let, you know,

1502
01:12:52.340 --> 01:12:53.860
like this one's done or whatever.

1503
01:12:53.860 --> 01:12:58.660
Man, I watched the, the, it's like a different class of developer.

1504
01:12:58.660 --> 01:13:01.780
Almost like the two minute YouTube video that the guy is showing it off.

1505
01:13:01.780 --> 01:13:05.500
He's like, he had like 15 Claude's going in the video.

1506
01:13:05.500 --> 01:13:09.620
You know, you're like, whoa, buddy, that's fucking chill out.

1507
01:13:09.620 --> 01:13:13.660
You know, he's got the free token discount.

1508
01:13:13.660 --> 01:13:14.660
Yeah.

1509
01:13:14.660 --> 01:13:15.660
Yeah.

1510
01:13:15.660 --> 01:13:16.660
Yeah.

1511
01:13:16.660 --> 01:13:17.660
Yeah.

1512
01:13:17.660 --> 01:13:20.420
The Pion Ping stuff was getting me in a meeting today because I was trying to listen to

1513
01:13:20.420 --> 01:13:22.540
the meeting and it was like, something need to do it.

1514
01:13:22.740 --> 01:13:33.220
My wife called me, she called me today because she's in the other room and she could hear

1515
01:13:33.220 --> 01:13:36.180
all of my different pings going off and I have two different kinds right now.

1516
01:13:36.180 --> 01:13:40.500
I've Mr. Garrison from South Park saying, yeah, I'm coming.

1517
01:13:40.500 --> 01:13:44.380
And then I have the Pions that are like jobs done and she's like, dude, you are crazy.

1518
01:13:44.380 --> 01:13:45.860
I think that's what she said from the other room.

1519
01:13:45.860 --> 01:13:47.260
She's like, this is crazy.

1520
01:13:47.260 --> 01:13:51.660
How are you living with all these notifications?

1521
01:13:51.660 --> 01:13:52.660
Does it do?

1522
01:13:52.660 --> 01:13:55.860
I don't have to install that, actually, but that sounds awesome.

1523
01:13:55.860 --> 01:14:02.380
Can they do like, does it do like look tar, double, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1524
01:14:02.380 --> 01:14:07.020
we have a whole bunch of, yeah, so good online and ready to go.

1525
01:14:07.020 --> 01:14:13.160
Yeah, they have like every character from Warcraft and Starcraft and they have Ocarina

1526
01:14:13.160 --> 01:14:14.160
of Time and.

1527
01:14:14.160 --> 01:14:15.160
Ready to go.

1528
01:14:15.160 --> 01:14:16.160
We have Navi.

1529
01:14:16.160 --> 01:14:17.160
Yeah.

1530
01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:19.160
Yeah.

1531
01:14:19.160 --> 01:14:22.760
Oh, dude, I'm sold.

1532
01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:23.760
It's so good.

1533
01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:27.160
Well, I think I should have done the Duke Nukem because he'd be like, I'm here to

1534
01:14:27.160 --> 01:14:29.800
kick ass and chew bubble gum and I'm like, that's fucking cool.

1535
01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:34.600
I want like a bad ass agent, you know, like shows up.

1536
01:14:34.600 --> 01:14:39.640
Oh, man, like this is legit.

1537
01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:42.480
This might change my life for the better a little bit.

1538
01:14:42.480 --> 01:14:43.480
That's good.

1539
01:14:43.480 --> 01:14:46.080
Yeah, that's good stuff.

1540
01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:47.680
Yeah.

1541
01:14:47.680 --> 01:14:55.640
Well, I'm not seeing low tar dabu specifically, but I assume does it exist, but no, this

1542
01:14:55.640 --> 01:14:56.640
is great.

1543
01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:57.640
This is enjoy.

1544
01:14:57.640 --> 01:15:01.160
Well, I had a couple more news items.

1545
01:15:01.160 --> 01:15:06.040
Should I pull them out or how y'all feeling over an hour, which I don't care.

1546
01:15:06.040 --> 01:15:10.920
I think this is super fun, but yeah, I have nothing going on, but we can also end if you

1547
01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:12.920
guys have stuff to do.

1548
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:17.240
Let me pitch two things then and we'll just see if they hit we got agency agents.

1549
01:15:17.240 --> 01:15:22.040
Did you all see this where you can now have an entire agency of it's like so every role

1550
01:15:22.040 --> 01:15:27.880
that would be at a 50 person agency, someone has defined an agent to be that person.

1551
01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:35.960
And now you can just get hub, install them and invoke an entire agency team, a sub team

1552
01:15:35.960 --> 01:15:42.480
to be so because there's a lot of people promising that you as a one person at home have 50 agents

1553
01:15:42.480 --> 01:15:45.640
that you manage and now we're all CEOs or whatever.

1554
01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:49.880
And so here's your agency, you want to you want to do agency stuff, you just download

1555
01:15:49.880 --> 01:15:52.920
them and invoke them or mini claw.

1556
01:15:52.920 --> 01:15:56.840
Do you want to talk about mini claw, which was the the mini universe where you could send

1557
01:15:56.840 --> 01:16:01.920
your open claw instance to a social online website.

1558
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:05.120
Well, that's one's old news, isn't it?

1559
01:16:05.120 --> 01:16:06.120
What was the freaking?

1560
01:16:06.120 --> 01:16:07.120
That was mold book.

1561
01:16:07.120 --> 01:16:08.120
That was mold book.

1562
01:16:09.120 --> 01:16:14.160
Yeah, Meta bought that, but this one is more like you send them into a 3D, it's like

1563
01:16:14.160 --> 01:16:17.920
a 3D personified space and it can be any realm that you want it to be.

1564
01:16:17.920 --> 01:16:22.720
You give them a persona and they basically have actions inside of there like a D&D character.

1565
01:16:22.720 --> 01:16:26.920
But your instance, are you hoping that interesting stories evolved that you can watch?

1566
01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:27.920
Yes, why?

1567
01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:28.920
Yeah, exactly.

1568
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:31.680
Yeah, so you put them in there, you put them in there and you read the stories that

1569
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:35.360
are happening and you're like entertained that your computer went and did something silly

1570
01:16:35.360 --> 01:16:36.360
or brave.

1571
01:16:36.360 --> 01:16:45.120
I feel like if I paid a computer to play Wow, I lost the plot, dude.

1572
01:16:45.120 --> 01:16:52.080
Like, I should be playing Wow, like I watched the great YouTube video the other day, got

1573
01:16:52.080 --> 01:16:57.160
a jar like a big old pickle jar and he went to a pond and he scooped some mud and water

1574
01:16:57.160 --> 01:17:02.720
and crap into it and just let it sit there for like weeks and it turned into like a

1575
01:17:02.720 --> 01:17:08.200
little ecosystem and he was looking in there and there's little worms and little predators

1576
01:17:08.200 --> 01:17:10.680
and little snails and stuff.

1577
01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:11.680
That's it.

1578
01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:13.440
You don't need a computer to do it.

1579
01:17:13.440 --> 01:17:19.640
Just go to a pond, scoop some mud and do a jar, kids.

1580
01:17:19.640 --> 01:17:24.960
That's a good, that's a good point, just we're overthinking it, dude, we're overthinking

1581
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:25.960
it.

1582
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:28.980
I don't know, people watch people play video games, ask Chris, he's not slaying the

1583
01:17:28.980 --> 01:17:32.740
spider, he's watching folks slaying spider and he's not wrong.

1584
01:17:32.740 --> 01:17:37.060
There's something nice about passively getting a story told to you as opposed to writing

1585
01:17:37.060 --> 01:17:42.860
the story and but I agree with you mostly, Dave, like I'm not, my computer is not participating

1586
01:17:42.860 --> 01:17:46.540
in this network, but there's something interesting about it.

1587
01:17:46.540 --> 01:17:53.260
I'd be up for like a, I'd be like, are you familiar with like solo RPGs?

1588
01:17:53.260 --> 01:17:58.180
Like it's basically like a, well, yeah, people play D&D alone or whatever.

1589
01:17:58.180 --> 01:18:05.180
Yeah, you play D&D alone, there's a Gundam one anyway, but you play D&D, but they, you

1590
01:18:05.180 --> 01:18:11.180
like, basically, like, you know, set up a story and you roll against dice tables like,

1591
01:18:11.180 --> 01:18:15.020
you know, you're all six, oh, the stranger visits, like, what's the stranger like?

1592
01:18:15.020 --> 01:18:18.700
And some of a lot of them are like journaling and, you know, kind of like story of crafting

1593
01:18:18.700 --> 01:18:19.700
like that.

1594
01:18:19.700 --> 01:18:24.180
But then a lot of them are also kind of like, you know, take you beef or beat through

1595
01:18:24.180 --> 01:18:25.540
the action and stuff like that.

1596
01:18:25.540 --> 01:18:28.380
And so something like that would be kind of fun.

1597
01:18:28.380 --> 01:18:32.300
And I think there are things like that, like, like D&D sort of things, but like, you

1598
01:18:32.300 --> 01:18:39.020
know, it'd be kind of like, I don't know, like, like, prompting me to use my brain, I

1599
01:18:39.020 --> 01:18:41.020
guess is what I want.

1600
01:18:41.020 --> 01:18:42.020
I don't want.

1601
01:18:42.020 --> 01:18:47.100
I am zero interested in paying a robot to play a video game that I'm not able to tell

1602
01:18:47.100 --> 01:18:48.100
it to tell you.

1603
01:18:48.100 --> 01:18:53.860
I could be convinced though, like, has it, is it provably interesting, you know, like

1604
01:18:53.860 --> 01:18:54.860
are there people doing it?

1605
01:18:54.860 --> 01:18:58.620
And they're like, check, this was amazing, you know, like, I don't know, a good story

1606
01:18:58.620 --> 01:18:59.620
is a good story.

1607
01:18:59.620 --> 01:19:01.980
So if one of all is, I'm like, open-minded to it.

1608
01:19:01.980 --> 01:19:07.420
But, you know, we got to be mindful that AI is doing this stuff and AI is expensive.

1609
01:19:07.420 --> 01:19:08.900
And it has costs on the world.

1610
01:19:08.900 --> 01:19:10.900
You know, we didn't mention once during this podcast.

1611
01:19:10.900 --> 01:19:15.180
I feel like, but David, I joke about it on shop talk sometimes, like, you have like a bucket

1612
01:19:15.180 --> 01:19:16.180
of live rabbits.

1613
01:19:16.180 --> 01:19:19.420
And every time you ask it something, you got to take one and like, put it in a blender,

1614
01:19:19.420 --> 01:19:21.980
you know, it's almost that bad, you know?

1615
01:19:21.980 --> 01:19:25.100
Like it does bad stuff to the world to like use a ton of AI.

1616
01:19:25.100 --> 01:19:29.020
So you just got to, but you don't, nobody sees it, you know, it's totally abstracted

1617
01:19:29.020 --> 01:19:30.020
from you.

1618
01:19:30.020 --> 01:19:32.180
It's just a little charge on your credit card.

1619
01:19:32.180 --> 01:19:35.540
But it's like, and then to turn in the fossil on in your house, you know, how much

1620
01:19:35.540 --> 01:19:39.860
do you use that for productivity is kind of, is kind of cool.

1621
01:19:39.860 --> 01:19:43.260
It's like, I used it to fix an accessibility bug or something, you're like, hey, maybe

1622
01:19:43.260 --> 01:19:44.780
it was worth it.

1623
01:19:44.780 --> 01:19:46.660
But yeah, but yeah, can you imagine that?

1624
01:19:46.660 --> 01:19:47.660
Yeah, it's plain language.

1625
01:19:47.660 --> 01:19:52.300
I can type turn my shower on now, but it's got a, it's got to burn a gallon of water

1626
01:19:52.300 --> 01:19:53.300
to do it.

1627
01:19:53.300 --> 01:19:54.900
Like, come on, that stuff's got to level out.

1628
01:19:54.900 --> 01:19:55.900
It's a man.

1629
01:19:55.900 --> 01:19:58.620
There's been so many accusations that the water stuff is lies, too.

1630
01:19:58.620 --> 01:20:00.740
It's just the bubble you heard your news in.

1631
01:20:00.740 --> 01:20:01.740
Sure.

1632
01:20:01.740 --> 01:20:06.900
Maybe it's not water go verify depends on how there's something it goes on the factory.

1633
01:20:06.900 --> 01:20:07.900
Some factories are good.

1634
01:20:07.900 --> 01:20:09.660
Some factories have waste.

1635
01:20:09.660 --> 01:20:10.660
Some of them don't.

1636
01:20:10.660 --> 01:20:12.100
So it's like, you can't treat them all the same.

1637
01:20:12.100 --> 01:20:13.100
I don't know.

1638
01:20:13.100 --> 01:20:14.980
It's just like, I'm not going to look in the dark.

1639
01:20:14.980 --> 01:20:19.380
Our closed loop systems, some companies do it better, but I don't know, man.

1640
01:20:19.380 --> 01:20:22.260
If it was a good story, people would be like, yeah, cool.

1641
01:20:22.260 --> 01:20:30.380
Look at the data instead of like, sign an NDA to like the power, you know, so yeah.

1642
01:20:30.380 --> 01:20:34.260
There's no way it's a perfect story, come on.

1643
01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:38.980
I love that you share Chris, the microwave, so microwave cooking for one, which was hilarious

1644
01:20:38.980 --> 01:20:42.980
and it reminded me of last week's episode or two weeks episode, which was a, the CEO

1645
01:20:42.980 --> 01:20:49.980
of hot pockets says that all dinners will be hot pockets within the next six to 12 months.

1646
01:20:49.980 --> 01:20:52.580
Which is still just so good.

1647
01:20:52.580 --> 01:20:53.580
It's so good.

1648
01:20:53.580 --> 01:21:01.660
I'm not looking at hot pockets to see like how many I could eat, like how many different

1649
01:21:01.660 --> 01:21:06.620
flavors before I would like throw up like, is that like size me, but it's hot pocket

1650
01:21:06.620 --> 01:21:07.620
me.

1651
01:21:07.620 --> 01:21:08.620
Hot pocket me.

1652
01:21:08.620 --> 01:21:12.340
The movie for one month is hot pockets.

1653
01:21:12.340 --> 01:21:13.340
Yeah.

1654
01:21:13.340 --> 01:21:14.340
Easily.

1655
01:21:14.340 --> 01:21:15.340
Easily.

1656
01:21:15.340 --> 01:21:16.340
Hot pockets.

1657
01:21:16.340 --> 01:21:17.340
It's official.

1658
01:21:17.340 --> 01:21:19.340
We got a breakfast hot pockets.

1659
01:21:19.340 --> 01:21:20.340
So we were okay.

1660
01:21:20.340 --> 01:21:21.340
Two months.

1661
01:21:21.340 --> 01:21:28.020
It's just a weird rectangle instead, you know, flaky burrito, seeing of shapes, Adam,

1662
01:21:28.020 --> 01:21:29.820
like, oh, they've got to go in a minute here.

1663
01:21:29.820 --> 01:21:32.260
But have you seen border shape?

1664
01:21:32.260 --> 01:21:34.660
This blows my mind a little bit that it's like cool.

1665
01:21:34.660 --> 01:21:36.820
I haven't used it, but like I keep seeing it.

1666
01:21:36.820 --> 01:21:38.900
Yeah, Timonnie is doing wild shit with it.

1667
01:21:38.900 --> 01:21:40.540
I'm like, that's getting crazy, man.

1668
01:21:40.540 --> 01:21:45.460
I don't even know why you'd want all those wild little shapes, but it's cool.

1669
01:21:45.460 --> 01:21:48.980
It's like anything, it's like you'd clip past to get it in the past, and you're like,

1670
01:21:48.980 --> 01:21:49.980
but that's neat.

1671
01:21:49.980 --> 01:21:54.580
But instead of clipping it away, it just redefines the entire shape to be absolutely

1672
01:21:54.580 --> 01:21:56.260
anything you want it to be.

1673
01:21:56.260 --> 01:21:57.260
That's crazy to me.

1674
01:21:57.260 --> 01:21:58.260
Padding.

1675
01:21:58.260 --> 01:22:01.380
It's just one of those things where I'm like, I didn't know that was coming.

1676
01:22:01.380 --> 01:22:03.900
So now we just don't have just rectangles on the web.

1677
01:22:03.900 --> 01:22:06.780
We just have literally any shape that you want.

1678
01:22:06.780 --> 01:22:07.780
Scorsoles.

1679
01:22:07.780 --> 01:22:09.780
Yeah.

1680
01:22:09.780 --> 01:22:10.780
Does it auto-flow?

1681
01:22:10.780 --> 01:22:14.980
Like if you made a triangle, does it do it like shape outside would inside?

1682
01:22:14.980 --> 01:22:17.420
Well, I imagine you got to have the padding for it.

1683
01:22:17.420 --> 01:22:20.620
It's not like it's going to increase the element size to apply the shape.

1684
01:22:20.620 --> 01:22:24.340
So you got to establish your, you know, you're like, I'm a box and I'm going to push

1685
01:22:24.340 --> 01:22:29.900
out and I don't want to get, okay, now my shape changes to a triangle, which I guess

1686
01:22:29.900 --> 01:22:33.260
is kind of like clip shape or clip path, but you know, I don't think the text is just

1687
01:22:33.260 --> 01:22:35.180
going to wake out of it though.

1688
01:22:35.180 --> 01:22:37.100
It'll just flow inside the triangle, right?

1689
01:22:37.100 --> 01:22:38.100
Yeah.

1690
01:22:38.100 --> 01:22:39.100
It's like border radius.

1691
01:22:39.100 --> 01:22:40.100
It's just fancy.

1692
01:22:40.100 --> 01:22:41.100
Yeah.

1693
01:22:41.100 --> 01:22:42.100
Mm.

1694
01:22:42.100 --> 01:22:50.660
Anyway, so it was impressive to me, you know, I don't think I can do the hot pocket challenge.

1695
01:22:50.660 --> 01:22:51.660
I think I'm out.

1696
01:22:51.660 --> 01:22:55.460
Don't underestimate yourself.

1697
01:22:55.460 --> 01:22:58.660
They have, they have hidden value ranch hot pockets.

1698
01:22:58.660 --> 01:22:59.660
Oh, no.

1699
01:22:59.660 --> 01:23:06.260
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's so hot ranch conspired, yes, sir, the middle is still

1700
01:23:06.260 --> 01:23:07.260
frozen.

1701
01:23:07.260 --> 01:23:08.260
Oh, that sounds delightful.

1702
01:23:08.260 --> 01:23:14.900
I'm like, there's a high protein, they have high protein was to lose weight on it because

1703
01:23:14.900 --> 01:23:20.220
you'd get so sick of them for a while, just like one a day after I'm absolutely starving.

1704
01:23:20.220 --> 01:23:22.740
Count down to them, make men's hot pockets hot pockets.

1705
01:23:22.740 --> 01:23:23.980
Did you see your cereal?

1706
01:23:23.980 --> 01:23:25.980
Did you see the men's cereal?

1707
01:23:25.980 --> 01:23:26.980
Yeah.

1708
01:23:26.980 --> 01:23:32.220
I'm like, this is a completely kind of like a myriad, so they know that more men eat

1709
01:23:32.220 --> 01:23:33.220
cereal.

1710
01:23:33.220 --> 01:23:36.500
So they're like, let's just make men's cereal and so they'll market it to them that has

1711
01:23:36.500 --> 01:23:39.660
high protein and whatever they're like shit.

1712
01:23:39.660 --> 01:23:44.020
I like high protein, anything, uh, exactly, you're like sparkling water.

1713
01:23:44.020 --> 01:23:45.020
Yeah.

1714
01:23:45.020 --> 01:23:49.380
See, I mean, I can eat cereal after I work out and then I'm like feeding my, that's amazing.

1715
01:23:49.380 --> 01:23:50.700
I'm totally into this.

1716
01:23:50.700 --> 01:23:52.460
When's the creatine cereal going to hit?

1717
01:23:52.460 --> 01:23:53.460
I don't know.

1718
01:23:53.460 --> 01:23:54.460
It should.

1719
01:23:54.460 --> 01:23:55.460
No.

1720
01:23:55.460 --> 01:23:56.460
Yeah.

1721
01:23:56.460 --> 01:23:57.460
Yeah.

1722
01:23:57.460 --> 01:23:58.460
All right.

1723
01:23:58.460 --> 01:23:59.460
We're over time.

1724
01:23:59.460 --> 01:24:02.460
Anything you guys want to mention or plug or, I don't know, stuff we want to say before

1725
01:24:02.460 --> 01:24:03.460
we're done.

1726
01:24:03.460 --> 01:24:04.460
Shoptalkshow.com.

1727
01:24:04.460 --> 01:24:05.460
We do it every week.

1728
01:24:05.460 --> 01:24:06.460
Oh, he stole it from you.

1729
01:24:06.460 --> 01:24:07.460
14 years.

1730
01:24:07.460 --> 01:24:08.460
Or whatever.

1731
01:24:08.460 --> 01:24:09.460
15 years.

1732
01:24:09.460 --> 01:24:10.460
Something.

1733
01:24:10.460 --> 01:24:11.460
Something.

1734
01:24:11.460 --> 01:24:12.460
Something.

1735
01:24:12.460 --> 01:24:13.460
Something.

1736
01:24:13.460 --> 01:24:14.460
Something.

1737
01:24:14.460 --> 01:24:15.460
Something.

1738
01:24:15.460 --> 01:24:16.460
Something.

1739
01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:17.460
Something.

1740
01:24:17.460 --> 01:24:18.460
Something.

1741
01:24:18.460 --> 01:24:19.460
Something.

1742
01:24:19.460 --> 01:24:20.460
Something.

1743
01:24:20.460 --> 01:24:21.460
Something.

1744
01:24:21.460 --> 01:24:22.460
Something.

1745
01:24:22.460 --> 01:24:23.460
Something.

1746
01:24:23.460 --> 01:24:24.460
Something.

1747
01:24:24.460 --> 01:24:25.460
Generals.

1748
01:24:25.460 --> 01:24:26.460
That's out.

1749
01:24:26.460 --> 01:24:27.460
So long time.

1750
01:24:27.460 --> 01:24:28.460
Penn.

1751
01:24:28.460 --> 01:24:29.460
Penn.

1752
01:24:29.460 --> 01:24:30.460
New, slash two.

1753
01:24:30.460 --> 01:24:31.460
Penn.

1754
01:24:31.460 --> 01:24:32.460
Penn.

1755
01:24:32.460 --> 01:24:33.460
New.

1756
01:24:33.460 --> 01:24:34.460
Oh, slash two.

1757
01:24:34.460 --> 01:24:35.460
Nice.

1758
01:24:35.460 --> 01:24:36.460
Ok.

1759
01:24:36.460 --> 01:24:37.460
A quick way into the two.

1760
01:24:37.460 --> 01:24:38.460
I like it.

1761
01:24:38.460 --> 01:24:39.460
Indeed.

1762
01:24:39.460 --> 01:24:40.460
Cool.

1763
01:24:40.460 --> 01:24:41.460
Thanks, fellas.

1764
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:42.460
That was a fun time.

1765
01:24:42.460 --> 01:24:43.460
You know.

1766
01:24:43.460 --> 01:24:45.460
It's funny when we talk about all this AI stuff.

1767
01:24:45.460 --> 01:24:48.500
Sometimes it's like exciting and you learn stuff and then and then it's so easy to immediately

1768
01:24:48.500 --> 01:24:54.980
get you go into dark places and then you got to like grab the rope and come back up for air.

1769
01:24:54.980 --> 01:25:02.900
You know, that's what I was. I had this tiny bottle of Baileys and then I read the expiration date

1770
01:25:02.900 --> 01:25:11.780
and it was about four years ago and glad I didn't drink it. It's like aspirin, Dave. Does

1771
01:25:11.780 --> 01:25:17.860
it ever really go bad? Yeah, I don't think so. It's just, it's a way of it. It's just a

1772
01:25:17.860 --> 01:25:24.500
dairy product. Yeah. Does milk go bad? I don't think it's not in Canada. Do cows go bad? No.

1773
01:25:29.620 --> 01:25:32.660
All right. Well, thanks everyone for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe,

1774
01:25:32.660 --> 01:25:35.300
leave us a raise and review. So we appreciate it and we will catch you next time.

1775
01:25:35.300 --> 01:25:45.540
You've been watching Whiskey Web and whatnot recorded in front of a live studio audience.

1776
01:25:45.540 --> 01:25:51.060
What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know people don't

1777
01:25:51.060 --> 01:25:57.380
pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fun for merchant to join our discolored server.

1778
01:25:58.180 --> 01:26:02.980
I'm serious. Like 2% of people who actually click these links and don't forget to leave us a

1779
01:26:02.980 --> 01:26:12.980
five-star review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude. I'm out of here. Still got it.