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She was extraordinary.

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My mother taught me a lot about just like bringing

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intention to what you do, bringing, sorry.

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And being the child of accomplished parents,

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most people thought that I would lack the ambition,

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the preparedness of my mother taught me that being underestimated

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is not a bad thing. It's a very powerful thing, actually.

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And it almost always worked to the detriment of the person who underestimated me.

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From real estate to her own multi-million dollar fashion line,

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Ivanka Trump continues to carve her own path into the business world,

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succeeding at every turn.

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And then you learn two weeks before he announces,

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your father decides he wants to be president of the United States.

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Did you have any sense that this was at all on the horizon?

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Not really. And then when he pulled the trigger, it was full steam.

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Most people wouldn't give up an eight hundred million dollar

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and your business to go into government. Why did you?

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He asked us for help. He's like, but I have to warn you.

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They're going to come at you hard. They're probably going to hate you.

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But one of the things I've learned in moments of tremendous pressure and scrutiny

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where any slip-up is completely weaponized against you is to find the signal

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in the noise. I just don't get distracted by the outside noise.

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That's probably the thing that has been most helpful to me in terms of

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the performance and success because you have a choice only in how you respond.

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You've said politics is a pretty dark world.

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This is a quite a difficult question to ask, but when you heard the news

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that there was an assassination attempt on your father's life,

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do you remember where you were and what's that like as a daughter?

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Guys, I've got a favor to ask before this episode begins.

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to the song right now and hit that follow button.

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Thank you so, so, so much.

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Avonka, you don't do many interviews, do you?

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Not really, no.

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Why don't you do much media stuff or podcasting or interviews?

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I actually don't know.

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I think I get sort of really locked in and heads down on what I'm working on

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that I tend to kind of put on blinders and just go.

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But I like to have conversations in longer form with people that I admire.

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I think the reason why I do this is because I see,

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I naturally see everybody is like a jigsaw puzzle.

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And you've lived an extraordinary life.

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You've lived an extraordinary, a typical life that,

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I mean, it's safe to say almost nobody on planet Earth has ever experienced.

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And so I think I asked that question just to be completely honest at the top

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because the life you've lived that will get into is one that would have shaped you

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in a number of ways.

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And one of them is I think from what I read,

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things that you had said and different experiences you had as a child

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is just like trusting people.

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You know, it's interesting.

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I grew up the child of wealthy and accomplished parents.

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And so I do think there's like a natural barrier that goes up.

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You're worried about people, especially when you're a kid,

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liking you for the wrong reasons.

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I see this now with my son.

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You know, he wants to be loved by his friends.

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And I appreciate that.

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That's good for who he is, not for who we are,

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and certainly not for what we have.

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So I do think being the child of a famous parents

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and living such a privileged life, I had this guard.

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And that guard served me really well for a long time.

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Like, I didn't have any friends,

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despite the really tumultuous life that I've had,

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ups and downs, who really disappointed me.

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Meaning close, close friends who didn't show up for me

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or who changed because of my circumstances

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or what was happening around me.

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And I've learned for me, I mean, you are saying the purpose of life,

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for me, it's the expansion and not contraction of the heart.

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And that's hard as you get older.

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How do you live a life of service and rooted in love and connection?

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And I've learned more and more that those walls,

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they don't serve you.

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And the only way to have connection,

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which is so fundamental to the human experiences,

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is to build it and that requires trust.

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So I have to trust people.

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Now I have a good radar, I'm not foolish.

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I think I'm a very good read of people.

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And I think it's one of my strengths.

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And I think it's why I haven't been surprised by a lot of people.

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So I read pretty quickly.

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But I also have had to teach myself rather than grow sort of cynical

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as one tends to as they get older.

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I've really actually taught myself to be more trusting.

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And to the extent that means periodically I'll be burned.

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I'm okay with that trade off,

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because I think it will lead to more meaningful connections in my life.

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Probably nets out better right in the lifetime.

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I have this photo here of a very small of Anka.

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So funny, I look at this and I see my daughter.

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Really?

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That was the first thing when I saw that photo.

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At what age did you realise that life for you was slightly different

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from the average person?

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When does a child realise that?

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I think there was always a lot of media attention and scrutiny.

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You see it, you experience it very early on.

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I think my parents did a really good job trying to shelter us from it.

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And it was different than without social media.

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I think the experience our children have or anywhere they go,

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people have a recording device in their hands, their iPhone.

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And can take pictures of them.

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It's so exposed during your formative years,

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and thankfully I did not have that growing up.

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There were times I felt it.

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I remember I wanted to be a dancer, a ballet dancer.

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My mom was an incredible skier.

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She skied on the national team for then Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

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And so she really believed in the importance of sport for cultivating discipline.

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And so she really encouraged this.

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I was dancing at Julia Art, the School of American Ballet here in New York.

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I was in the Nutcracker and I remember I was probably eight.

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I was, you know, like some small role in the Nutcracker.

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I was a party girl and an angel.

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Those were like the entry roles where you like dance at the party,

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where the man with the Nutcracker arrives and then you're in that angel scene.

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And I remember being so excited and was my first Nutcracker.

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And Michael Jackson had just moved into Trump Tower.

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And was literally our neighbor in Trump Tower.

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And my father sees him one day, you know, passing in the lobby on with them.

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I said, you know, my daughter's in the Nutcracker.

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You should come. You should come see her performance.

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So he comes to the Nutcracker with my father at the height of his fame to watch me dance.

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And now this in retrospect could be like, wow, what a cool experience.

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But I was horrified.

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I was so embarrassed.

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I thought we had ruined the Nutcracker.

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Everyone was dancing with one glove.

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People who produced the show were, you know, hysterical that everyone was dancing with one glove.

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But I thought it was all my fault.

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And this was like just a wild childhood experience.

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I had things like that happen that were so far from normal.

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That it's actually like comical in retrospect.

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But I think the day-to-day was like really grounded.

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My grandmother and and grandfather before he passed on my mother's side really raised us.

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My grandmother cooked every meal we ate for, you know, most of my childhood.

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And Bubby.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So she taught me a type of unconditional love and tenderness.

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And I think more than anything, she was just as unbuts her.

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She's unbelievably nurturing.

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I'd come home from school and, you know, before I'd be out of the shower,

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she would have laundered my clothes and folded them and put them back on my bed.

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She was always feeding me and food for her was very much like an expression of love.

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I remember when I became a teenager and I sleep later and later.

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She'd wake me up for lunch.

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Just like God forbid I wasn't being sad at all hours.

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She means the well to you.

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She does.

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She's 98 years old and, you know, her health has suffered.

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And, you know, it's been a little bit of a difficult time for her.

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But I feel so strongly for me and my children to have the experience to be there for her

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and just like a small fraction of the way that she was there for me is such an extraordinary privilege.

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And for them to grow up with her at our table every single meal.

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Each night and her telling her stories and stories of my mother who they sadly didn't get to know.

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Are you okay?

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No, I can see you.

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No, I'm.

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Yes, I'm great.

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I have a lot of love for this woman.

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This is hell.

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That is doesn't happen to be often.

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What is that mixture of emotions that you're experiencing?

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She taught me so much just about love and we were talking before about connection.

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And, you know, it's been hard to see her now as she struggles.

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But she's a blessing to have her in her home and living with us and very special person.

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Maybe I'll have a tissue.

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Thank you.

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It's a real credit to her.

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Yeah.

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It's often a testament to the person and the value that they've added to your life and how they were there for you.

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That you would feel the way you do about her and that's so visible in your face.

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You know, she must have been quite formative.

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Oh, for sure.

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So she's been...

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She's an amazing person.

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You said that she was really taken care of you and under the age of 10.

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Mother and father, I'm shooting very, very busy.

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Yeah.

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Explain that to me.

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You know, my mother was an incredible trailblazer.

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An amazing example for me of strength and resilience and glamour and determination and ambition.

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And she was a great mother too.

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But she would also say like she couldn't do it alone.

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And she wasn't pretending she could.

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So she surrounded us with people who loved us.

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We had two amazing nannies.

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One of them worked for my mother until the day she died.

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The other is worked for my mother until the day my mother died.

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And still works with us today.

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She worked as after a week grew up.

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She worked as my mother's personal assistant.

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So they were very much part of our lives and part of our extended family.

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And of course my grandmother, who she trusted completely with us.

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So she showed me a lot at a time when, you know, not many women were doing what my mother was doing.

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Inside the boardroom and on the construction sites all the time, by the way, with five inch heels and like perfectly caught hair.

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So she made it looking incredibly easy.

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But it was and continues to be very challenging to balance work and life like that.

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Especially at a time where what she was doing was so singular.

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So she really, my mother served as an unbelievable role model for me for what is possible.

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How to be an amazing mother who is loving and nurturing and fun and provides for children and also to be unabashedly and doggedly pursuing one's goals in a professional capacity.

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She did that when she was married to my father.

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She did that following their divorce and really was just an amazing, an amazing mentor for me.

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You're growing up in a context where your family are privileged.

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They have notoriety and both parents are quite absent by way of them being so busy.

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And they're also kind of interesting.

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But my mother wasn't home cooking us meals.

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My grandmother was.

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But my mother was home when we ate them.

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And then she'd go out again.

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Her and my father were actively building their life and pursuing their passions.

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And for my mom, much like me today, one of her creative expressions came in the form of design and architecture.

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She wasn't absent.

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And you know, neither was my father.

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So he was filled with more typical of that generation male role where he was less like present.

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But there was never a doubt in my mind that I was his top priority and that he was available to me.

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So I used to call him from the pay phone at a chape and it was in a broom closet and never once did he not pick up.

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And sometimes his office would be filled with people of, you know, he'd be in the middle of a deal or a negotiation or some politician or whatever it was.

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And he'd always put me on speakerphone and then start the conversation by telling everyone how I got great grades.

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And I'd start to blush.

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But he always picked up.

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Did you miss him?

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Did you miss him?

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No, because I didn't feel like he was absent.

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It was just different.

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Like he wasn't attending all of our sports games.

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But by the way, a few parents were, you know, four decades ago.

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There's a lot more sort of active participation, like the way I am in my kids' life, the way my husband is.

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I think it is, you know, a little different, especially for fathers today than 30 years ago.

241
00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:27.720
If I sent Avanna your mother here next to us at the same age you are now,

242
00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:32.720
what would be the fundamental differences in those individuals?

243
00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.720
You know, it's funny.

244
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:43.720
I think back now and my mother and I are both incredibly similar and very different.

245
00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.720
So she had like over the top style and glamour, you know?

246
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:55.720
And I think in some ways it was a reaction to the austerity and the control of growing up in a communist country

247
00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:57.720
and then Czechoslovakia.

248
00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:59.720
Like nobody was going to tell her what to do.

249
00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:01.720
Nobody was going to tell her what to say.

250
00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:07.720
So she actually would make my father look peasy and with hysterical.

251
00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:12.720
I mean, I spent much from my childhood being like, oh, mom, please.

252
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.720
You know, it was really interesting.

253
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:24.720
I feel like today, because my mother passed away unexpectedly from a fall a few years ago,

254
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:34.720
they were just like, I had a lot of questions and I really dug into her story and her history

255
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:43.720
and really studied her almost in a way that I wish I had done when she was living and I could speak to her directly.

256
00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:50.720
And I think I understand her a, because I'm at a level of maturity and I have some of the same issues.

257
00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:57.720
I know having young children and I think I understand her though better today than I did in some ways in her life.

258
00:16:57.720 --> 00:16:59.720
Like I see her more fully.

259
00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:05.720
And what did you understand more about her that you didn't understand while she was here after she passed?

260
00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:13.720
She wrote a book in the final years of her life that talked a lot more about her childhood.

261
00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:20.720
And I think not uncommon for people who have experienced, you know, a lot of hardship.

262
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.720
Sometimes they compartmentalize and it's like forward only.

263
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:26.720
And this whole part of her life she never talked about.

264
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.720
And I think when you're younger, you ask a lot less questions.

265
00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:37.720
Like now I would tell everyone who's listening, like, really ask the questions, especially if people are a bit of a vault

266
00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:45.720
and are less inclined to look back in the past, because I, you know, all of her life experience very much shaped her.

267
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.720
This was a beautiful photo that I found if you and I...

268
00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:55.720
That was in Marlago on my childhood bed.

269
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.720
Or night.

270
00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:00.720
Yeah.

271
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.720
She was really, I mean, she was impossibly glamorous.

272
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:06.720
Yeah, because I find a photo where she didn't.

273
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:07.720
No, no, no.

274
00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.720
Nine years old, your mother and father split up to most.

275
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.720
That was quite well publicized.

276
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.720
They were father had an affair with somebody.

277
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:22.720
And this is actually where the quote that I referenced earlier about trust comes in, because quite remarkably,

278
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:30.720
reporters were waiting outside of your school to take photos of you and ask questions about your father's affair.

279
00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:33.720
And the quote that I read in GQ said, this is a quote from you.

280
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.720
If I didn't have that lesson, I don't know that I'd be tough.

281
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:39.720
It taught me not to trust anybody.

282
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.720
You can never let your guard down.

283
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.720
And I never really have since that time.

284
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:51.720
So that's probably the 25-year-old version of me.

285
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.720
There's a lot of truth in it.

286
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:58.720
And I think certain defense mechanisms we create for ourselves are actually healthy.

287
00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:09.720
Because it was healthy for me not to be trusting before I had honed my own instincts and had learned to understand people and read people.

288
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:18.720
I think there was nothing wrong with a 25 or 27-year-old with my lived experience answering that way.

289
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:20.720
But I do let people understand that.

290
00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:26.720
Like every part of me completely understands that reaction to that event at like nine years old.

291
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:33.720
I mean reporters being at your school or just generally how that must have been as a kid in school.

292
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:45.720
And the little aggression that like even today wouldn't exist with the paparazzi then like to be shouting things and like reading quotes from tabloids to me as I'm leaving school.

293
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:54.720
To put this in context, this divorce apparently garnered more headlines than the OJ Simpson trial.

294
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.720
So that was a lot.

295
00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:01.720
The difference is that once I stepped into my home, it was a safe place.

296
00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:06.720
You know, unless the TVs were blaring, which obviously they weren't during that period of time.

297
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:14.720
So I think the difference today for parents and that I think about a lot with my kids is you just can't protect them in the same way.

298
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.720
Like social media amplifies everything.

299
00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:28.720
That experience with those reporters was extremely combative and aggressive and like totally unacceptable in a way that I don't think society would allow today.

300
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.720
Today it's very much more in children's faces.

301
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:36.720
You know, they can acquire the information they need and obviously when you're young, you're curious.

302
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:42.720
Again, I'm trying to like world build in my head because I think understanding the early context helps us understand everybody.

303
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:47.720
And if that was my early context, I think you'd see the fingerprints on me today.

304
00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:51.720
Well, I think we're all, you know, I think about it with my own children.

305
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:59.720
Like I grew up with a lot of privilege and I've lived an extraordinary life.

306
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.720
And you know, I never worried where my next meal came from.

307
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.720
I never worried about being able to pay for the best school that I was able to get into.

308
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:14.720
And so by so many metrics, my life was extremely comfortable and easy.

309
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:28.720
And I do think back like some of the challenges, the moments that were disgusting or uncomfortable or you know, even just the fact of my parents marriage being torn apart.

310
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:34.720
I think those create the pressure that turns you into who you become.

311
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.720
Did you know what it meant at nine years old?

312
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.720
Because I, again, I tried to put myself back in it.

313
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.720
I probably, then you couldn't look things up as easily.

314
00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:44.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

315
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.720
So, you know, I don't know what I thought.

316
00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:54.720
I think I was probably more scared than anything of like the mob and the lights and the surprise of it all.

317
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.720
Did you know what them separating men?

318
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.720
Like do they have a conversation with you and say, you know, we're splitting up or was it?

319
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:05.720
They did. And I think the experience I had albeit I was televised.

320
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:10.720
But it was very much like any other child who's dying, whose parents are separating.

321
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:14.720
You start to wonder, you know, will I be loved?

322
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.720
Will I be forgotten? What does this mean?

323
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:19.720
You want them to get back together.

324
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:26.720
You're hoping you're trying to create peace between them, rekindle the love.

325
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.720
If you all the things that I think are like deeply normal and human.

326
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:37.720
And you found out about the divorce by seeing a newspaper on your way to school one day?

327
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:42.720
Yes. That wasn't the blend.

328
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.720
They used to have the big news boxes with the newspaper.

329
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:47.720
What did it say?

330
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:50.720
My parents had tapped me down that afternoon. That's when they had attended to.

331
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:52.720
But it had come out in the morning.

332
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:53.720
What did the newspapers say?

333
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:54.720
I don't remember.

334
00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:58.720
I remember the photo. There was a picture of them with a rip down the middle.

335
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.720
It was not an easy situation for a child.

336
00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:06.720
But that experience, I always look for what is the positive in any situation.

337
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:13.720
And the positive for me and my siblings where we really bonded in a different type of way

338
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:15.720
because we were going through it together.

339
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.720
It must be so interesting being in your shoes.

340
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:24.720
Because I mean you're both aware that people, they want to drive a wedge between you and your father.

341
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:26.720
They want a headline. They want you to say something.

342
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.720
I can see it within you that you have a real desire to be open and transparent.

343
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.720
But if I was in your shoes, I'd be thinking everyone's trying to trip me out.

344
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:37.720
Everyone's trying to make a headline on me and my life.

345
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.720
They want to drive a wedge between me and my father.

346
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.720
It's difficult. It must be difficult.

347
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.720
Even I think about it as a podcast. The podcast gets big.

348
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.720
I say the wrong line.

349
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:56.720
I think one of the things I've learned under moments in my life of tremendous pressure and scrutiny

350
00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:59.720
is to find the signal in the noise.

351
00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:04.720
And that's probably the thing that has been most helpful to me.

352
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:06.720
It can become quite turbulent.

353
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.720
I find myself sometimes literally dancing in the eye of the hurricane.

354
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.720
It's been many years of my life.

355
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:15.720
But there's a lot of peace within me.

356
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:19.720
So I just don't get distracted by the outside noise.

357
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:24.720
And I think if you know what you stand for, then it really is just noise.

358
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.720
When did you have to learn this?

359
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:31.720
Am I right in thinking, this is the first time that I saw the Trump family during the apprentice?

360
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:34.720
Obviously growing up as a kid, big fan of business.

361
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.720
We had the UK apprentice, but the US one was much more interesting in my opinion.

362
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:43.720
This is when I first understand who your father is and who you are.

363
00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:47.720
What was the sentiment around you as a family at this point?

364
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:52.720
Because again, people can't remember pre vortex.

365
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.720
It was the biggest show in the world at one point.

366
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.720
It was this massive phenomenon.

367
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:05.720
He had been very famous in New York and in real estate and in business circles.

368
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:14.720
This kind of expanded awareness of him beyond those New York circles on to a global stage.

369
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.720
So there was a lot of attention and a lot of excitement.

370
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:20.720
He was very similar to how he is now.

371
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:24.720
He said exactly what he was thinking, which could be polarizing at times.

372
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.720
But it's part of what people loved about him.

373
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.720
I think the thing about my father and my mother is they're deeply authentic.

374
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:36.720
So you can disagree, but there's a certain amount of respect for the candor of it.

375
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:44.720
And the lack of fear to say what you're thinking because so many people are afraid to be their true selves.

376
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.720
You're more delicate with your words.

377
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.720
Yeah, but I know exactly who I am.

378
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:50.720
That's why the noise doesn't affect me.

379
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:55.720
I'm really proud of the fact that I've lived through some incredibly intense times

380
00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:58.720
where people are taking cheap shots and swinging.

381
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:07.720
And I don't punch back because I don't believe in sort of spending my time and focus

382
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:12.720
like being combative, like jumping into that particular arena

383
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.720
and to like the nasty swirl of social media.

384
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:16.720
It's just it's not for me.

385
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:18.720
And I've been consistent in that my whole life.

386
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.720
And I feel like that sets an amazing example to my children.

387
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:23.720
Where did you learn that?

388
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:24.720
What is it that you've read?

389
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:25.720
What are the sort of challenges?

390
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:26.720
You just have to be yourself.

391
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:27.720
And you have to be true to yourself.

392
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:30.720
And it's like I don't allow that noise to distract me.

393
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:35.720
We were talking earlier about stoicism, I think like Marcus Aurelius' meditation

394
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.720
is so informative on so many levels.

395
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:40.720
I mean, here you have somebody who was literally an emperor.

396
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.720
And he's writing this journal in a tent in a battlefield.

397
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.720
So his perspective is amazing.

398
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.720
And he once wrote that the soul becomes died the color of its thoughts.

399
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:55.720
And I think about that all the time.

400
00:26:55.720 --> 00:27:02.720
The cost to me of living in a way that's inconsistent and not aligned

401
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:07.720
with what feels right, what models the right thing for my children,

402
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.720
what feels inherently true to me.

403
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:11.720
It's too expensive.

404
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.720
It's too expensive for my soul, so I won't do it.

405
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:19.720
So there have been times when the incoming and I say,

406
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:22.720
well, but that isn't right or this isn't right or I want to correct it.

407
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.720
And then I say, what's the cost of doing it?

408
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:27.720
Thoreau has another great quote.

409
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.720
It's something paraphrasing to the effect of the cost of anything

410
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:33.720
is the amount of your life you're willing to exchange for it.

411
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:39.720
I focus on those things that elevate my soul, my joy,

412
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:43.720
my happiness, my connection to the people I love and care about.

413
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:45.720
Have you always been there?

414
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:47.720
Because you seem more stoic now.

415
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:50.720
But I have like, I'm much more naturally like this.

416
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.720
Like I feel things, like a lot of things.

417
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:55.720
You're a bit of an empath, right?

418
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:56.720
Oh, for sure.

419
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:58.720
So I have not always been like this.

420
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.720
Like I had to work to be like this.

421
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:04.720
And I had to, I think mature and I had to gain confidence.

422
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.720
And it took me a while to really let people in.

423
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.720
And I think it was after my children were born

424
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:15.720
that I really experienced a different type of love,

425
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.720
like cracks you open and you're never the same.

426
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:20.720
And you want more of that feeling.

427
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.720
Like I'm very intentional about everything that I do.

428
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.720
Even sitting here today, like I have zero interest

429
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:29.720
in spending two hours having a conversation with somebody

430
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.720
I think is like a bully because they get good podcasts.

431
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.720
Like I like having conversations with people.

432
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.720
I think are interesting and curious.

433
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.720
But in business as well, like I'm, you know, I do less things

434
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:46.720
and I do them with a lot more focus and intention.

435
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.720
You've lived an extraordinary life and it's a very anomalous one.

436
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.720
But actually the lesson there about being intentional

437
00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.720
in every sense of the word, not just with what you do every day

438
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.720
but also what you let occupy your mind is one that I think

439
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.720
everybody listening might drive a lot of value from.

440
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.720
Because we live, everybody lives on a spectrum

441
00:29:05.720 --> 00:29:09.720
of the world, cloring them to deviate from who they are.

442
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.720
One of the spectrum, if I take myself back to when I was 16 years old,

443
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:15.720
the world, you know, other than my mother telling me

444
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.720
she wanted me to be a doctor lawyer, whatever,

445
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:19.720
the world wasn't really pulling me away from myself.

446
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:21.720
But then on the other end of the spectrum,

447
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.720
33 now, you know, every time I have a podcast

448
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.720
on someone's mad at me and everything I say can be spun in whatever.

449
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:31.720
So you also, on this side of the spectrum,

450
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:33.720
you have to get really, really clear as you said

451
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:35.720
on who you are and what matters.

452
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:37.720
Well, I think that's key.

453
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.720
If you don't know who you are, the mob wins.

454
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:41.720
Oh, 100%.

455
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:42.720
Because they tell you who you are.

456
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:44.720
And then you start to believe it.

457
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.720
Once you know who you are, you feel sorry for the people

458
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:52.720
who are screaming at each other on social media.

459
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:54.720
It takes a beat to get there.

460
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:59.720
I think it takes a lot of work to really understand yourself.

461
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:05.720
I think sometimes modern society, it praises sort of speed

462
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:09.720
and fast pace and, you know, accessibility

463
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.720
and being available and responding quickly,

464
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.720
then people wonder like, why don't they know themselves?

465
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.720
Like, why aren't they connected to something bigger?

466
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:18.720
And they're not taking the time.

467
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.720
I take time to shut down and like really go inward

468
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:24.720
and ask myself every time I have a big decision,

469
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.720
like, what feels right?

470
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:28.720
And even if it's hard to make a decision,

471
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:30.720
like whether it's a no or a yes,

472
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:34.720
if it feels aligned with your values and who you are,

473
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.720
like, it never is a mistake, ever.

474
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:41.720
You grew up in the, you know, with a family and a father

475
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:43.720
that are very prominent.

476
00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:46.720
At some point, do you have to make the decision

477
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:47.720
to become your own person?

478
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:49.720
Like, because I was wondering if in that context,

479
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.720
you, there's a pressure to kind of like be the same person

480
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:55.720
in every regard, to believe all the same things,

481
00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:57.720
to live the same life, to go the same path.

482
00:30:57.720 --> 00:30:59.720
Is there some point in your journey where you go,

483
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:01.720
do you know what, I've actually got to like figure out,

484
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:03.720
I can see a little smirk in the corner of your mouth.

485
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:05.720
Well, no, I think about it with my own children

486
00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:09.720
because as a parent, it's very easy to see them as,

487
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.720
you know, a lot of parents, they view their children

488
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.720
as extensions of themselves.

489
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:16.720
And I really try not to do that.

490
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.720
Like, they are their own people, just like I'm my own person.

491
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:24.720
Sometimes in the context of a broader public narrative,

492
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:27.720
everything is sort of co-mingled and related.

493
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:29.720
But we're all our own people.

494
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:31.720
We obviously have conditioning.

495
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:33.720
We have learned behaviors.

496
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:35.720
We have some of which are great.

497
00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:41.720
Some of which we spend part of our adulthood unwinding.

498
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.720
But we're all like fundamentally unique and special.

499
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.720
And I work really hard to make sure my kids see themselves,

500
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.720
each of them individually, that they know how much I love them

501
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:56.720
as like perfect, complete human beings.

502
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:00.720
Not, I love you because of this accomplishment

503
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.720
or because of this sort of external validation

504
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:07.720
that you've received because you're sort of perfect as you are

505
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.720
and like in your essence.

506
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.720
So my parents taught me a lot.

507
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:13.720
A lot.

508
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:14.720
I love them so much.

509
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:15.720
I'm like them in some ways.

510
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:17.720
I'm very dissimilar to them in other ways.

511
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.720
But even though I was like the peacemaker in our house,

512
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.720
I was also like very like true to myself.

513
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:25.720
And they created, and I give them credit for this.

514
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:28.720
They created an environment where like descent was okay.

515
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:33.720
And so I could agree or disagree and share it with each of them

516
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:36.720
and do so respectfully and privately.

517
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.720
And that was our home.

518
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.720
And you started off in real estate.

519
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:44.720
You worked in a, sounded like to me,

520
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:48.720
you were basically an intern at a different real estate company

521
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.720
before moving into the family business.

522
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:53.720
And in the family business, you know, heavily male dominated space,

523
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:56.720
I heard you talk about how actually being a woman in that context

524
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:00.720
proved to be in your mind an advantage of sorts.

525
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.720
What is the context that again, I'm in 2026 right now

526
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:06.720
so I don't have the perspective of what it was like to be a young woman

527
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:08.720
in the real estate industry,

528
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.720
but presuming in New York some sort of 20 years ago.

529
00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:14.720
Well, I think I was like underestimated twice

530
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.720
first being the child of accomplished parents.

531
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:21.720
There was an expectation that I, on one hand,

532
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:24.720
some people thought I was like a savant

533
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.720
because I was their child.

534
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:30.720
But most people thought they would be that I would phone it in,

535
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.720
that I would lack sort of the thought process,

536
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:35.720
the ambition, the preparedness.

537
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.720
So I always worked like twice as hard as everyone else

538
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:45.720
to sort of prove my worth and prove my ability to be in these rooms

539
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:49.720
where, truthfully, oftentimes, I was in them before I was prepared to be in them.

540
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:51.720
So that was, you know, on my mind.

541
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:55.720
But I think being underestimated is not a bad thing.

542
00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:58.720
I think it's like a very powerful thing, actually.

543
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:04.720
And it almost always worked to the detriment of the person who underestimated me.

544
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.720
So I think if you're somebody who's prepared

545
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:10.720
and somebody underestimates you, well, guess what they're not.

546
00:34:10.720 --> 00:34:13.720
So when you're dealing with people who are extremely accomplished,

547
00:34:13.720 --> 00:34:15.720
like, do the work.

548
00:34:15.720 --> 00:34:16.720
Like, know what you're doing?

549
00:34:16.720 --> 00:34:19.720
Because probably they haven't done the work when they know they're dealing with you.

550
00:34:19.720 --> 00:34:25.720
And I think as a young woman in real estate, especially, you know,

551
00:34:25.720 --> 00:34:28.720
there were women in sales and there were women in marketing,

552
00:34:28.720 --> 00:34:34.720
but there were very few women in development and construction and finance and acquisitions.

553
00:34:34.720 --> 00:34:41.720
And I think I harnessed both in the belief.

554
00:34:41.720 --> 00:34:46.720
Some of it may be stemming from my own insecurity, but the belief that the people would underestimate me,

555
00:34:46.720 --> 00:34:49.720
I harnessed that, like, sort of fear, that sentiment.

556
00:34:49.720 --> 00:34:52.720
And I used it to sort of propel me.

557
00:34:52.720 --> 00:34:56.720
And I used it to give me motivation and drive.

558
00:34:56.720 --> 00:35:01.720
And then I also would use it against the people who underestimated me,

559
00:35:01.720 --> 00:35:03.720
just because I was always prepared.

560
00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:04.720
I was over-prepared.

561
00:35:04.720 --> 00:35:06.720
I always did the work.

562
00:35:06.720 --> 00:35:11.720
I heard you described as, from people that worked with you at the time,

563
00:35:11.720 --> 00:35:13.720
a natural-born dealmaker.

564
00:35:13.720 --> 00:35:15.720
And in this kind of overlays with what you're saying there,

565
00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:22.720
that if someone underestimates you, they're actually setting themselves up to be surprised or...

566
00:35:22.720 --> 00:35:26.720
Well, I'd prefer to be underestimated than over-estimated any day of the week.

567
00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:30.720
Give me specifics on what environment that creates for you to then win in a deal.

568
00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:34.720
I think in negotiation, it's, like, incredibly important

569
00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:38.720
to know what the other person wants.

570
00:35:38.720 --> 00:35:44.720
Sometimes you can learn that through research, very infrequently, though, like, you have to listen.

571
00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:48.720
Like, you're probably a great negotiator because you're an incredible listener.

572
00:35:48.720 --> 00:35:50.720
Silence can also be a weapon.

573
00:35:50.720 --> 00:35:54.720
People get very uncomfortable in moments of silence, and then they start talking.

574
00:35:54.720 --> 00:35:59.720
And I think the more you can get a person to share with you,

575
00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:01.720
what they consider to be a win,

576
00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:06.720
or you can potentially accomplish something where you give...

577
00:36:06.720 --> 00:36:09.720
where you really have, like, a mutual win win.

578
00:36:09.720 --> 00:36:12.720
Like, I've seen negotiations where you give up very little,

579
00:36:12.720 --> 00:36:15.720
but the person feels incredibly happy because it's what they want.

580
00:36:15.720 --> 00:36:16.720
Right?

581
00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:19.720
Now, when you're dealing with, like, a negotiation that's purely price,

582
00:36:19.720 --> 00:36:20.720
that's kind of different.

583
00:36:20.720 --> 00:36:22.720
That's, like, a very simple transaction.

584
00:36:22.720 --> 00:36:26.720
It's, you know, but very few negotiations are purely that.

585
00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:29.720
You know, one of, first and foremost, and a negotiation,

586
00:36:29.720 --> 00:36:32.720
like, like, make sure you understand what the other person wants,

587
00:36:32.720 --> 00:36:35.720
because you may be able to give it to them at very little cost,

588
00:36:35.720 --> 00:36:37.720
and then everyone's happy.

589
00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:43.720
And I also think there's a lot of value in, like, authentically building relationships.

590
00:36:43.720 --> 00:36:50.720
So, you know, some of the best deals I ever did were derivatives of really,

591
00:36:50.720 --> 00:36:53.720
like, getting to know someone, like, authentically and genuinely.

592
00:36:53.720 --> 00:36:55.720
And they want you to win.

593
00:36:55.720 --> 00:36:56.720
They want you to win.

594
00:36:56.720 --> 00:36:57.720
You want them to win.

595
00:36:57.720 --> 00:37:01.720
And those are, like, really beautiful types of transactions.

596
00:37:01.720 --> 00:37:04.720
And, you know, I believe in, you know, a lot of the projects I'm working on now

597
00:37:04.720 --> 00:37:06.720
are about, like, creating things.

598
00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:08.720
Like, I like building tangible things.

599
00:37:08.720 --> 00:37:15.720
I like creating things that uplift, like, solving challenging problems.

600
00:37:15.720 --> 00:37:18.720
And you don't do that alone.

601
00:37:18.720 --> 00:37:22.720
You do that through partnership.

602
00:37:22.720 --> 00:37:28.720
You do that through coalitions of people who share your passion and interest.

603
00:37:28.720 --> 00:37:30.720
And that's very rewarding.

604
00:37:30.720 --> 00:37:33.720
When you hire people, what are you looking for for your businesses?

605
00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:35.720
Are there, I mean, everyone's got their own hiring bias,

606
00:37:35.720 --> 00:37:38.720
and it often stems from their past experiences who's bound them in the past.

607
00:37:38.720 --> 00:37:41.720
When you're looking to hire someone for one of your organizations,

608
00:37:41.720 --> 00:37:43.720
or for some of the projects we'll talk about in a second,

609
00:37:43.720 --> 00:37:46.720
what are the, like, the key characteristics?

610
00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:50.720
I think, first and foremost, you want someone with a strong sense of self

611
00:37:50.720 --> 00:37:54.720
and a strong, like, orientation towards, like, agency.

612
00:37:54.720 --> 00:37:56.720
Like, somebody who has agency.

613
00:37:56.720 --> 00:38:00.720
It's very hard to teach people, you know, you can have a brilliant person.

614
00:38:00.720 --> 00:38:04.720
But if they don't have, like, good judgment, or if they're not, like, a self starter,

615
00:38:04.720 --> 00:38:06.720
it's very hard to give them that.

616
00:38:06.720 --> 00:38:08.720
It's very hard to sort of give them good judgment.

617
00:38:08.720 --> 00:38:10.720
And some of it's, like, street smarts, right?

618
00:38:10.720 --> 00:38:14.720
We talked before about, you know, how can you both be trustworthy?

619
00:38:14.720 --> 00:38:17.720
And not be disappointed or burned too often.

620
00:38:17.720 --> 00:38:21.720
You have an instinct about a person, and you can read a room.

621
00:38:21.720 --> 00:38:23.720
And that's, like, EQ skills.

622
00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:26.720
And those are a little bit harder to teach.

623
00:38:26.720 --> 00:38:27.720
So I look for that.

624
00:38:27.720 --> 00:38:29.720
I look for good people.

625
00:38:29.720 --> 00:38:33.720
At the end of the day, like, I don't want to deal with,

626
00:38:33.720 --> 00:38:35.720
I don't want to work with people.

627
00:38:35.720 --> 00:38:36.720
I don't enjoy that.

628
00:38:36.720 --> 00:38:38.720
I don't think are, like, good people.

629
00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:41.720
Because I don't want to spend my time with somebody who I don't trust,

630
00:38:41.720 --> 00:38:43.720
or who I don't respect.

631
00:38:43.720 --> 00:38:46.720
So that's, like, really core and fundamental for me.

632
00:38:46.720 --> 00:38:50.720
You know, for somebody who's working with me,

633
00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:52.720
I actually tell my kids this all the time.

634
00:38:52.720 --> 00:38:55.720
Because I think so much of the outside world is, like,

635
00:38:55.720 --> 00:38:57.720
impress me by what you do.

636
00:38:57.720 --> 00:38:59.720
Like, impress me by what you accomplish.

637
00:38:59.720 --> 00:39:04.720
The grades, the trophies, the badges of, like, external validation

638
00:39:04.720 --> 00:39:09.720
and success, like, our whole life is oriented towards that.

639
00:39:09.720 --> 00:39:12.720
The validation that comes from the outside world.

640
00:39:12.720 --> 00:39:14.720
So, like, I always want my kids to know, like,

641
00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:17.720
how I'm going to validate them is, like, be a good person.

642
00:39:17.720 --> 00:39:19.720
Like, you want to impress me? Like, be a good person.

643
00:39:19.720 --> 00:39:20.720
Was that the case for you?

644
00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:21.720
Because when I look at you...

645
00:39:21.720 --> 00:39:22.720
Probably not.

646
00:39:22.720 --> 00:39:23.720
I look at a Trump family.

647
00:39:23.720 --> 00:39:27.720
For me, as an outside, I look like a competition between siblings

648
00:39:27.720 --> 00:39:29.720
and even when I think about you.

649
00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:32.720
Yeah, I think because we're so competitive and hard.

650
00:39:32.720 --> 00:39:37.720
Yeah, no, I think it all, like, worked out and we're all,

651
00:39:37.720 --> 00:39:42.720
I like to think, you know, my siblings and I grew up with,

652
00:39:43.720 --> 00:39:46.720
like, good values and...

653
00:39:46.720 --> 00:39:49.720
But no, like, we were in a more, like, I was, like,

654
00:39:49.720 --> 00:39:51.720
very competitive with my siblings.

655
00:39:51.720 --> 00:39:54.720
Like, you know, my mom was, like, a disciplinarian.

656
00:39:54.720 --> 00:39:58.720
There was, like, a high expectation of, like, performance and success.

657
00:39:58.720 --> 00:40:00.720
And when you're in that, when you're calling, collect your father,

658
00:40:00.720 --> 00:40:03.720
he's reciting your great grades to the rim of people.

659
00:40:03.720 --> 00:40:05.720
Yeah, no, no, no. That was...

660
00:40:05.720 --> 00:40:08.720
That mattered.

661
00:40:08.720 --> 00:40:10.720
And it matters to a lot of parents.

662
00:40:10.720 --> 00:40:14.720
And by the way, it's not bad, like, having an incredibly high standard.

663
00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:18.720
And to some degree, yeah, and I think, look, I think it's...

664
00:40:18.720 --> 00:40:21.720
A lot of parents, like, I think, especially, like,

665
00:40:21.720 --> 00:40:23.720
my mom was an immigrant to this country.

666
00:40:23.720 --> 00:40:25.720
There's, like, a high standard.

667
00:40:25.720 --> 00:40:29.720
And she didn't, like, humor fools, right?

668
00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:32.720
One of the things I'm most proud of, I look at my daughter.

669
00:40:32.720 --> 00:40:37.720
And there's no bar I could set for her that the bar she sets for herself is in hire.

670
00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:40.720
So, like, I actually view my job as a parent with her,

671
00:40:40.720 --> 00:40:46.720
is to, like, give her permission to not, like, strive for perfection.

672
00:40:46.720 --> 00:40:52.720
You go on to build a business in the jewelry industry and fashion industry.

673
00:40:52.720 --> 00:40:54.720
And there was... I was reading about...

674
00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:58.720
There was a point in your career where you were offered a job by Anna Wintour,

675
00:40:58.720 --> 00:41:01.720
at Vogue, and I think your father did kind of want you to go in that direction.

676
00:41:01.720 --> 00:41:03.720
But you wanted to go in the real estate business direction.

677
00:41:03.720 --> 00:41:07.720
She called me, actually, on the day I graduated from university.

678
00:41:07.720 --> 00:41:10.720
I went to a warden school of business at University of Pennsylvania,

679
00:41:10.720 --> 00:41:12.720
and she offered me a job at Vogue.

680
00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:17.720
And I was, like, incredibly honored and flattered and groggy,

681
00:41:17.720 --> 00:41:19.720
because she called me at eight o'clock in the morning,

682
00:41:19.720 --> 00:41:21.720
which, calling a college student at eight o'clock in the morning,

683
00:41:21.720 --> 00:41:23.720
you might as well call them at 430 in the morning.

684
00:41:23.720 --> 00:41:24.720
You know, like, that was...

685
00:41:24.720 --> 00:41:28.720
But I was, like, deeply aware from when I was a young girl,

686
00:41:28.720 --> 00:41:30.720
that, like, I wanted to go into real estate.

687
00:41:31.720 --> 00:41:33.720
Life has taken me in different directions,

688
00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:39.720
and interestingly now, I'm returning some amazing projects back to my real estate roots,

689
00:41:39.720 --> 00:41:41.720
but I love architecture.

690
00:41:41.720 --> 00:41:42.720
I love design.

691
00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:46.720
I love it as an expression of self.

692
00:41:46.720 --> 00:41:51.720
You look at a city skyline, and it's an expression of, like, a vision

693
00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:58.720
for hope and optimism, and the amount of courage that took to build each of those buildings,

694
00:41:58.720 --> 00:42:00.720
and it's extraordinary.

695
00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:03.720
But you did go into the fine jewelry at 26 years old,

696
00:42:03.720 --> 00:42:05.720
and then a 33-year-old of Uncle Trump,

697
00:42:05.720 --> 00:42:09.720
and you were in a huge amount of major retailers, including Nordstrom,

698
00:42:09.720 --> 00:42:12.720
Neiman Marcus, and that's really also...

699
00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:14.720
That's what I knew you first for.

700
00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:17.720
I knew you for running a fashion business,

701
00:42:17.720 --> 00:42:19.720
which was doing exceptionally well.

702
00:42:19.720 --> 00:42:23.720
I think from what I read, it was making hundreds of millions of dollars,

703
00:42:23.720 --> 00:42:25.720
and then you shut it down.

704
00:42:25.720 --> 00:42:26.720
Yeah.

705
00:42:26.720 --> 00:42:27.720
Yeah.

706
00:42:27.720 --> 00:42:30.720
It was kind of like lightning in a bottle.

707
00:42:30.720 --> 00:42:35.720
I caught a moment, so I was still sort of leading the charge at our family real estate business.

708
00:42:35.720 --> 00:42:40.720
I had young children at home, or was just starting to have children

709
00:42:40.720 --> 00:42:43.720
when I first logged into fine jewelry ultimately.

710
00:42:43.720 --> 00:42:47.720
We ended up having 11 different categories of payroll, footwear,

711
00:42:47.720 --> 00:42:50.720
sunglasses, fragrance,

712
00:42:51.720 --> 00:42:55.720
but we created an excessively priced line

713
00:42:55.720 --> 00:42:58.720
that was feminine and beautiful,

714
00:42:58.720 --> 00:43:01.720
but for like a multi-dimensional woman.

715
00:43:01.720 --> 00:43:03.720
At the time when I was coming up,

716
00:43:03.720 --> 00:43:08.720
the outfits that women were buying for work were so far from aspirational,

717
00:43:08.720 --> 00:43:13.720
and they couldn't transition with the woman to the date night they would have that evening,

718
00:43:13.720 --> 00:43:16.720
or afterward drinks with their girlfriends.

719
00:43:17.720 --> 00:43:21.720
Nobody was posting on Instagram what they were wearing to work.

720
00:43:21.720 --> 00:43:25.720
We thought, let's bridge the gap and create something for a modern woman,

721
00:43:25.720 --> 00:43:29.720
and it caught fire, and it was an amazing success.

722
00:43:29.720 --> 00:43:34.720
We were doing close to $800 million in sales annually when I shut it down,

723
00:43:34.720 --> 00:43:36.720
when I went into government.

724
00:43:36.720 --> 00:43:38.720
It was great, but...

725
00:43:38.720 --> 00:43:41.720
You were doing 800 million in sales annually when you shut it down.

726
00:43:41.720 --> 00:43:42.720
Yeah.

727
00:43:42.720 --> 00:43:43.720
Why did you shut it down?

728
00:43:43.720 --> 00:43:45.720
I went into government,

729
00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:47.720
and you always have to sort of be moving forward,

730
00:43:47.720 --> 00:43:53.720
and I'd built a team of women who were oriented towards forward momentum,

731
00:43:53.720 --> 00:43:55.720
and I had to put it on ice.

732
00:43:55.720 --> 00:43:59.720
And this was all just part of the rules of complying with the Office of Government Ethics.

733
00:43:59.720 --> 00:44:02.720
So they basically look at everything you have, and they say, sell this,

734
00:44:02.720 --> 00:44:04.720
put this into a trust, do this, do that, do this.

735
00:44:04.720 --> 00:44:09.720
So you do that, and for my own business, they weren't allowed to use my image.

736
00:44:09.720 --> 00:44:13.720
They weren't allowed to grow the business in terms of new accounts or internationally.

737
00:44:13.720 --> 00:44:18.720
And that was fine for a moment, but at the end of the day, you need growth.

738
00:44:18.720 --> 00:44:25.720
And so I thought it would be easier to end on a high note than to allow the business to sort of stagnate.

739
00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:28.720
And I also felt like for myself, I'm always looking forward.

740
00:44:28.720 --> 00:44:36.720
I don't like to look back, and I feel the experience of this new experience,

741
00:44:36.720 --> 00:44:39.720
I mean, serving was so expanding.

742
00:44:39.720 --> 00:44:45.720
Most people wouldn't give up an $800 million dollar and your business to go into government.

743
00:44:45.720 --> 00:44:47.720
Why did you?

744
00:44:47.720 --> 00:44:49.720
You know, I thought...

745
00:44:49.720 --> 00:44:51.720
And it's your baby as well, you know, it's like...

746
00:44:51.720 --> 00:44:56.720
Yeah, you know, I thought about the version of me in 40 years

747
00:44:56.720 --> 00:45:00.720
that when asked the question to serve by my father,

748
00:45:00.720 --> 00:45:05.720
who at the time knew no one in Washington DC at all, said no,

749
00:45:05.720 --> 00:45:08.720
and just proceeded with life as usual.

750
00:45:08.720 --> 00:45:10.720
And that didn't like sit right with me.

751
00:45:10.720 --> 00:45:12.720
So I had no intention of serving.

752
00:45:12.720 --> 00:45:18.720
And a few weeks after he won, he asked Jared and me to go with him

753
00:45:18.720 --> 00:45:21.720
and sort of help him navigate this new environment.

754
00:45:21.720 --> 00:45:26.720
And my eyes grew big, and he joked with me, he's like, but I have to warn you,

755
00:45:26.720 --> 00:45:28.720
they're going to come at you hard. They're probably going to hate you.

756
00:45:28.720 --> 00:45:31.720
You're too young, you're too, and he like ran out of it.

757
00:45:31.720 --> 00:45:32.720
I'm like, oh my god.

758
00:45:32.720 --> 00:45:34.720
I'm like, that was like the anti-sale.

759
00:45:34.720 --> 00:45:37.720
But, you know, he asked us for help.

760
00:45:37.720 --> 00:45:42.720
And I feel incredibly privileged that he gave us the opportunity

761
00:45:42.720 --> 00:45:44.720
to serve a country we love so much.

762
00:45:44.720 --> 00:45:47.720
We hadn't been expecting it. We hadn't set up our lives for it.

763
00:45:47.720 --> 00:45:52.720
We were loving the path we were on and the work we were doing.

764
00:45:52.720 --> 00:45:55.720
But you also, you know, can't put your head in the sand.

765
00:45:55.720 --> 00:45:57.720
I like life had changed.

766
00:45:57.720 --> 00:46:01.720
As much as I'd like to say, like, oh, he wins business as usual.

767
00:46:01.720 --> 00:46:03.720
There's no business as usual. Your life has changed.

768
00:46:03.720 --> 00:46:06.720
You didn't choose this though. In fact, you didn't choose most of these things.

769
00:46:06.720 --> 00:46:09.720
I look at your life and I go, from a very young age,

770
00:46:09.720 --> 00:46:12.720
you've not chosen the context which you've been thrust into

771
00:46:12.720 --> 00:46:15.720
because of your father's ambitions.

772
00:46:15.720 --> 00:46:19.720
And I mean, I can see it in your face that it kind of rings true.

773
00:46:19.720 --> 00:46:21.720
But I think that's true for all of us, right?

774
00:46:21.720 --> 00:46:25.720
Some degree, like our path is determined by our circumstance.

775
00:46:25.720 --> 00:46:28.720
Not really. Not really in the same way.

776
00:46:28.720 --> 00:46:30.720
This is a little bit different.

777
00:46:30.720 --> 00:46:32.720
I mean, politics and the presidency.

778
00:46:32.720 --> 00:46:34.720
But even from nine years old, you know,

779
00:46:34.720 --> 00:46:38.720
you're not choosing to leave school and have reporters treat you like that.

780
00:46:38.720 --> 00:46:40.720
And you're not choosing these other things along the way.

781
00:46:40.720 --> 00:46:42.720
And then your father decides he wants to be president

782
00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:44.720
if the United States. It's not like he had a political career

783
00:46:44.720 --> 00:46:46.720
where he like built up slowly.

784
00:46:46.720 --> 00:46:47.720
It's like he woke up one day.

785
00:46:47.720 --> 00:46:48.720
I was like...

786
00:46:48.720 --> 00:46:49.720
I was drinking water from a fire hose.

787
00:46:49.720 --> 00:46:50.720
It was a lot.

788
00:46:50.720 --> 00:46:54.720
Normally, cut your teeth on, you know, some local election

789
00:46:54.720 --> 00:46:57.720
as a family had the experience.

790
00:46:58.720 --> 00:47:01.720
The first time we ever run for office was president, anyone.

791
00:47:01.720 --> 00:47:06.720
So it was a radical adjustment period for all of us, but...

792
00:47:06.720 --> 00:47:07.720
Did you think you'd win?

793
00:47:07.720 --> 00:47:08.720
Boy, did it.

794
00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:09.720
Oh, yeah.

795
00:47:09.720 --> 00:47:10.720
I did.

796
00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:13.720
I mean, it was hard to believe myself

797
00:47:13.720 --> 00:47:15.720
because everyone was saying that he wouldn't.

798
00:47:15.720 --> 00:47:18.720
And I'd say, well, these people probably know what they're talking about,

799
00:47:18.720 --> 00:47:20.720
but it felt like he would.

800
00:47:20.720 --> 00:47:24.720
And, you know, so for me, that time was extraordinary

801
00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:27.720
because I really believed, you know, I lived in New York City.

802
00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:32.720
I thought I was surrounded by diverse minds and opinions

803
00:47:32.720 --> 00:47:34.720
and perspectives and viewpoints.

804
00:47:34.720 --> 00:47:39.720
And I really thought I had sort of a lot of exposure to ideas

805
00:47:39.720 --> 00:47:43.720
and his campaign like ripped it open for me

806
00:47:43.720 --> 00:47:46.720
and that I realized like the bubble that I was in.

807
00:47:46.720 --> 00:47:48.720
And suddenly I got out into the country

808
00:47:48.720 --> 00:47:51.720
and I heard from people who had very divergent views

809
00:47:51.720 --> 00:47:53.720
on a number of issues.

810
00:47:53.720 --> 00:47:56.720
Some of it reinforced my existing beliefs other times

811
00:47:56.720 --> 00:48:01.720
it completely changed my perspective and orientation.

812
00:48:01.720 --> 00:48:05.720
So it was extremely mind-expanding.

813
00:48:05.720 --> 00:48:08.720
So when you ask like, oh, why didn't I go back to what I was doing?

814
00:48:08.720 --> 00:48:11.720
I think like, you know, you get thrown into something

815
00:48:11.720 --> 00:48:14.720
and you learn and you grow and you change.

816
00:48:14.720 --> 00:48:19.720
And I felt as challenging it was

817
00:48:19.720 --> 00:48:23.720
as that moment in my life to say yes

818
00:48:23.720 --> 00:48:27.720
when my father asked us to go help him.

819
00:48:27.720 --> 00:48:32.720
I felt like it was an amazing privilege to be able to serve.

820
00:48:32.720 --> 00:48:33.720
So.

821
00:48:33.720 --> 00:48:35.720
New York always has a strange energy to it

822
00:48:35.720 --> 00:48:37.720
because people start talking about their goals,

823
00:48:37.720 --> 00:48:38.720
fresh starts, and new habits.

824
00:48:38.720 --> 00:48:41.720
But the reality is that most people carry the same ideas

825
00:48:41.720 --> 00:48:43.720
they had last year into the New York.

826
00:48:43.720 --> 00:48:44.720
I'm guilty of that too.

827
00:48:44.720 --> 00:48:46.720
And they still don't end up doing anything with them.

828
00:48:46.720 --> 00:48:48.720
And I get why starting something new,

829
00:48:48.720 --> 00:48:50.720
especially if it's a business or a project is overwhelming.

830
00:48:50.720 --> 00:48:52.720
Before you start, you're looking for the perfect moment

831
00:48:52.720 --> 00:48:54.720
and to be the perfect version of yourself

832
00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:57.720
when really what matters most is taking that first step.

833
00:48:57.720 --> 00:48:59.720
If you've had an idea for a while,

834
00:48:59.720 --> 00:49:02.720
a product, a store, something you've been sitting on,

835
00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:05.720
our sponsor Shopify makes it easy to get started

836
00:49:05.720 --> 00:49:07.720
because you can build your store, sell on socials,

837
00:49:07.720 --> 00:49:09.720
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838
00:49:09.720 --> 00:49:12.720
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839
00:49:12.720 --> 00:49:15.720
So if 2026 is the year you finally back yourself,

840
00:49:15.720 --> 00:49:20.720
go to Shopify.co.uk slash Bartlett and start selling.

841
00:49:20.720 --> 00:49:24.720
And you can sign up for a $1 per month trial right now too.

842
00:49:24.720 --> 00:49:28.720
Just go to Shopify.co.uk slash Bartlett.

843
00:49:28.720 --> 00:49:31.720
I promise you, you don't need to have it all figured out.

844
00:49:31.720 --> 00:49:33.720
You just need to start.

845
00:49:33.720 --> 00:49:37.720
I run multiple companies that have multiple sales teams.

846
00:49:37.720 --> 00:49:39.720
And one of the things as a founder of a company

847
00:49:39.720 --> 00:49:42.720
that's often confusing is you find it hard to figure out

848
00:49:42.720 --> 00:49:43.720
where sales are.

849
00:49:43.720 --> 00:49:45.720
So about 10 years ago, I started using pipe drive

850
00:49:45.720 --> 00:49:46.720
in my former company.

851
00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:48.720
And it's also the reason why I switched over

852
00:49:48.720 --> 00:49:50.720
all of my commercial teams in my current media company

853
00:49:50.720 --> 00:49:52.720
called Stephen.com to use pipe drive as well.

854
00:49:52.720 --> 00:49:53.720
Not only do they sponsor this show,

855
00:49:53.720 --> 00:49:55.720
but they've been an incredibly effective way

856
00:49:55.720 --> 00:49:57.720
of scaling our sales engine over the years.

857
00:49:57.720 --> 00:50:00.720
pipe drive is an easy to use intelligence CRM.

858
00:50:00.720 --> 00:50:03.720
And at its very core, it makes your sales process visible

859
00:50:03.720 --> 00:50:07.720
through one dashboard, a visual pipeline showing every deal

860
00:50:07.720 --> 00:50:10.720
what stage it's in, what needs to happen next.

861
00:50:10.720 --> 00:50:12.720
And it's all in real time with no delay.

862
00:50:12.720 --> 00:50:15.720
It doesn't magically close the deal for you, of course.

863
00:50:15.720 --> 00:50:18.720
But it does replace complexity with clarity.

864
00:50:18.720 --> 00:50:20.720
If you want to join over 100,000 companies

865
00:50:20.720 --> 00:50:22.720
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866
00:50:22.720 --> 00:50:25.720
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867
00:50:25.720 --> 00:50:29.720
Head to pipe drive.com slash CEO to get started.

868
00:50:29.720 --> 00:50:33.720
That's pipe drive.com slash CEO.

869
00:50:33.720 --> 00:50:35.720
I'll see you over there.

870
00:50:35.720 --> 00:50:37.720
I watched interviews going back to the 1980s

871
00:50:37.720 --> 00:50:40.720
where it sounded like your father was playing with the idea.

872
00:50:40.720 --> 00:50:43.720
I remember that Oprah interview that's subsequently gone viral

873
00:50:43.720 --> 00:50:46.720
of him saying that if it got so bad in the US,

874
00:50:46.720 --> 00:50:48.720
he would never rule it out totally.

875
00:50:48.720 --> 00:50:51.720
He thought he would win because he's never gone into anything

876
00:50:51.720 --> 00:50:53.720
to lose, as I think you said.

877
00:50:53.720 --> 00:50:57.720
And even 1980 in an interview with Rona Bre,

878
00:50:57.720 --> 00:50:59.720
I can't pronounce that name, he said,

879
00:50:59.720 --> 00:51:02.720
maybe I'd run for president, I don't know.

880
00:51:02.720 --> 00:51:05.720
Did you have any sense that this was at all on the horizon?

881
00:51:05.720 --> 00:51:06.720
Not really.

882
00:51:06.720 --> 00:51:07.720
That's interesting.

883
00:51:07.720 --> 00:51:12.720
No, it was actually where we discussed things

884
00:51:12.720 --> 00:51:15.720
that weren't sort of the normal, how was your day at school?

885
00:51:15.720 --> 00:51:20.720
We spoke a lot about real estate and about building

886
00:51:20.720 --> 00:51:23.720
and we were going to go into the family business.

887
00:51:23.720 --> 00:51:27.720
And I do think he sort of toyed with it in his mind for a while.

888
00:51:27.720 --> 00:51:29.720
I do remember once thinking it was real.

889
00:51:29.720 --> 00:51:33.720
I was 16 and I was at boarding school and I called him up.

890
00:51:33.720 --> 00:51:36.720
I go, oh my god, I read that you're going to run for president.

891
00:51:36.720 --> 00:51:38.720
This is going to ruin my life.

892
00:51:38.720 --> 00:51:40.720
I think I was like hysterical and he's like,

893
00:51:40.720 --> 00:51:42.720
don't worry about it, not happening.

894
00:51:42.720 --> 00:51:47.720
You know, I think he was thinking about the options he was given

895
00:51:47.720 --> 00:51:50.720
as a voter and he was dissatisfied.

896
00:51:50.720 --> 00:51:54.720
And I think he was beginning to formulate his perspective

897
00:51:54.720 --> 00:51:56.720
on what he would do differently.

898
00:51:57.720 --> 00:52:01.720
But it was not my childhood, that was not an ambition

899
00:52:01.720 --> 00:52:05.720
of his that was at least articulated to us.

900
00:52:05.720 --> 00:52:08.720
You know, some of the ideas you mentioned in that open interview,

901
00:52:08.720 --> 00:52:14.720
he was talking about trade policy being deeply unfair to American workers.

902
00:52:14.720 --> 00:52:18.720
You know, his viewpoint remained consistent over time

903
00:52:18.720 --> 00:52:23.720
and remains consistent to this day on exactly that about trade policy

904
00:52:23.720 --> 00:52:26.720
and many of the things he articulated

905
00:52:26.720 --> 00:52:29.720
then are very true for him to this day.

906
00:52:29.720 --> 00:52:33.720
And then in 2015, when you were 33, my age,

907
00:52:33.720 --> 00:52:37.720
you learn two weeks before he announces that he's going to announce

908
00:52:37.720 --> 00:52:40.720
that he wants to run for president.

909
00:52:40.720 --> 00:52:42.720
I get, how do you receive that?

910
00:52:42.720 --> 00:52:44.720
Is there like an existential panic?

911
00:52:44.720 --> 00:52:45.720
Like you had been...

912
00:52:45.720 --> 00:52:47.720
He came together as a family and Bedminster

913
00:52:47.720 --> 00:52:50.720
and he shared with us his intention

914
00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:53.720
and he asked me to introduce him.

915
00:52:53.720 --> 00:52:56.720
I said to him, I'm like, well, are you really doing this?

916
00:52:56.720 --> 00:52:59.720
Are you really going to do this?

917
00:52:59.720 --> 00:53:01.720
He was coming down the escalator

918
00:53:01.720 --> 00:53:04.720
and I'm trying to introduce him and give this speech.

919
00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:07.720
I'm like, is he going to get up here and actually it was so quick.

920
00:53:07.720 --> 00:53:10.720
But I think he had debated it in his mind for a long time

921
00:53:10.720 --> 00:53:15.720
and then when he pulled the trigger, it was full steam.

922
00:53:15.720 --> 00:53:18.720
Life hasn't been the same since in many respects.

923
00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:20.720
No, it hasn't.

924
00:53:20.720 --> 00:53:23.720
But it's been, I mean, it's been an extraordinary ride.

925
00:53:23.720 --> 00:53:25.720
There have been highs and there have been lows.

926
00:53:25.720 --> 00:53:27.720
But we've done a lot of living.

927
00:53:27.720 --> 00:53:29.720
A lot of living.

928
00:53:29.720 --> 00:53:30.720
A lot of living.

929
00:53:30.720 --> 00:53:33.720
Of which, he's been four years working in the White House.

930
00:53:33.720 --> 00:53:35.720
Some of your sort of key headline achievements

931
00:53:35.720 --> 00:53:38.720
are doubling the child tax credit from $1,000 to $2,000,

932
00:53:38.720 --> 00:53:43.720
benefiting 40 million Americans with an average of $2,000 per year,

933
00:53:43.720 --> 00:53:46.720
helping secure paid family leave for federal workers,

934
00:53:46.720 --> 00:53:48.720
the Great American Outdoors Act,

935
00:53:48.720 --> 00:53:50.720
which is one of the largest conservative bills

936
00:53:50.720 --> 00:53:52.720
since the National Park System was created,

937
00:53:52.720 --> 00:53:56.720
leading efforts to modernize career and technical education,

938
00:53:56.720 --> 00:53:59.720
providing 1.3 billion annually to over 13 million students

939
00:53:59.720 --> 00:54:02.720
and helping to pass nine pieces of legislation,

940
00:54:02.720 --> 00:54:06.720
combating human trafficking and child exploitation.

941
00:54:06.720 --> 00:54:08.720
And then it ended.

942
00:54:08.720 --> 00:54:10.720
Were you happy it ended?

943
00:54:10.720 --> 00:54:13.720
Because I sat with Michelle Obama, she seemed happy.

944
00:54:13.720 --> 00:54:15.720
I left it all in the field.

945
00:54:15.720 --> 00:54:18.720
I don't look back and say,

946
00:54:18.720 --> 00:54:20.720
I don't have regrets.

947
00:54:20.720 --> 00:54:22.720
I worked as hard as I could.

948
00:54:22.720 --> 00:54:27.720
I'm incredibly proud of what I was able to accomplish

949
00:54:27.720 --> 00:54:29.720
in those four years.

950
00:54:29.720 --> 00:54:32.720
And I don't regret it in any way.

951
00:54:32.720 --> 00:54:37.720
But it's sacrifice to my children.

952
00:54:37.720 --> 00:54:41.720
And it's hard work.

953
00:54:41.720 --> 00:54:45.720
So I feel both incredibly privileged for the opportunity.

954
00:54:45.720 --> 00:54:49.720
But also, I don't have what they refer to as Potomac fever.

955
00:54:49.720 --> 00:54:52.720
There's some people that once they have the experience

956
00:54:52.720 --> 00:54:56.720
of being in those rooms and close to that type of power,

957
00:54:56.720 --> 00:54:58.720
they just hang around the hoop,

958
00:54:58.720 --> 00:55:00.720
constantly cycling back in.

959
00:55:00.720 --> 00:55:04.720
I feel like I wasn't expecting to serve in this capacity,

960
00:55:04.720 --> 00:55:07.720
at least not at this stage of my life.

961
00:55:07.720 --> 00:55:10.720
My father asked me to help him.

962
00:55:10.720 --> 00:55:13.720
We uprooted our lives and went and did just that.

963
00:55:13.720 --> 00:55:14.720
And scored a lot of wins.

964
00:55:14.720 --> 00:55:17.720
I mean, you think about something like the trial tax credit,

965
00:55:17.720 --> 00:55:22.720
40 million American families benefited from that policy,

966
00:55:22.720 --> 00:55:26.720
an average of $2,400 in their pockets.

967
00:55:26.720 --> 00:55:30.720
That's extraordinarily meaningful and consequential.

968
00:55:30.720 --> 00:55:33.720
And I'm so proud to have been able to do that.

969
00:55:33.720 --> 00:55:37.720
Nine pieces of human trafficking legislation,

970
00:55:37.720 --> 00:55:40.720
the work that I did around vocational education

971
00:55:40.720 --> 00:55:43.720
and skills training, which is all the more relevant

972
00:55:43.720 --> 00:55:47.720
as we sort of surf the oncoming tsunami that is AI.

973
00:55:47.720 --> 00:55:51.720
You know, the fact that we were able to get the private sector

974
00:55:51.720 --> 00:55:56.720
to commit to skilling or re-skilling 16 million American workers,

975
00:55:56.720 --> 00:56:00.720
the fact that we were able to facilitate the creation

976
00:56:00.720 --> 00:56:04.720
of a million apprenticeship opportunities in the United States.

977
00:56:04.720 --> 00:56:07.720
Like these are deeply meaningful.

978
00:56:07.720 --> 00:56:11.720
So I'm so proud of my service.

979
00:56:11.720 --> 00:56:16.720
I feel deeply honored that he trusted me

980
00:56:16.720 --> 00:56:20.720
to pursue these different verticals

981
00:56:20.720 --> 00:56:23.720
and to work alongside of him.

982
00:56:23.720 --> 00:56:26.720
And I also know that it's really hard.

983
00:56:26.720 --> 00:56:29.720
And for my children, you know, my first responsibility

984
00:56:29.720 --> 00:56:30.720
is to be their mom.

985
00:56:30.720 --> 00:56:32.720
It was true then as well, of course.

986
00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:37.720
And I did the best I could every single day to be everywhere I needed to be.

987
00:56:37.720 --> 00:56:39.720
But my kids are a different age now.

988
00:56:39.720 --> 00:56:43.720
And there's a finite period of time before they leave our home.

989
00:56:43.720 --> 00:56:47.720
I think, you know, I look at my teenage daughter, she's 14.

990
00:56:47.720 --> 00:56:52.720
And even if like a quarter of my interactions with her

991
00:56:52.720 --> 00:56:55.720
through her closed bedroom door, like I need to be present

992
00:56:55.720 --> 00:56:58.720
and I need to be there, it's not theoretical for me

993
00:56:58.720 --> 00:57:04.720
because now I know the sacrifice that they would have to bear,

994
00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:09.720
the cost to them of if I went back into service.

995
00:57:09.720 --> 00:57:11.720
And I'm not willing to let them pay that price.

996
00:57:11.720 --> 00:57:14.720
So for me, it's like actually a rather easy decision.

997
00:57:14.720 --> 00:57:18.720
I made it immediately, you know, that in this moment I'm where I need to be.

998
00:57:18.720 --> 00:57:20.720
It's also a different time.

999
00:57:20.720 --> 00:57:24.720
You know, now my father has a deep bench of people raising their hand

1000
00:57:24.720 --> 00:57:26.720
who want to help and participate.

1001
00:57:26.720 --> 00:57:28.720
That wasn't true before.

1002
00:57:28.720 --> 00:57:30.720
He's really refined.

1003
00:57:30.720 --> 00:57:36.720
His policies, his beliefs and has a lot of conviction in terms of what he wants to do.

1004
00:57:36.720 --> 00:57:39.720
So I feel like for him, it's amazing.

1005
00:57:39.720 --> 00:57:41.720
He's got the team he needs.

1006
00:57:41.720 --> 00:57:45.720
And for me, I think, you know, my priorities are my family

1007
00:57:45.720 --> 00:57:48.720
and that just feels really good and right for me.

1008
00:57:48.720 --> 00:57:50.720
What weren't you prepared for?

1009
00:57:50.720 --> 00:57:52.720
I asked the same question to Michelle when she was here

1010
00:57:52.720 --> 00:57:54.720
about, you know, you get that phone call from your dad

1011
00:57:54.720 --> 00:57:56.720
and he says, come, come help.

1012
00:57:56.720 --> 00:57:58.720
One has a vision of what that might look like,

1013
00:57:58.720 --> 00:57:59.720
but there's surprises.

1014
00:57:59.720 --> 00:58:01.720
Michelle talked to me about so many of the things

1015
00:58:01.720 --> 00:58:03.720
she had no idea would be the case.

1016
00:58:03.720 --> 00:58:05.720
I wasn't prepared for, you're not prepared for any of it.

1017
00:58:05.720 --> 00:58:08.720
There's nothing that trains you for the experience.

1018
00:58:08.720 --> 00:58:11.720
And I think one of the things you realize pretty quickly

1019
00:58:11.720 --> 00:58:13.720
is like power, just like money,

1020
00:58:13.720 --> 00:58:16.720
makes people more of what they already are.

1021
00:58:16.720 --> 00:58:20.720
And you see that very much in playing out in politics

1022
00:58:20.720 --> 00:58:22.720
and in life, right?

1023
00:58:22.720 --> 00:58:25.720
I also think you realize people are just people.

1024
00:58:25.720 --> 00:58:29.720
Like you look at, and I had exposure

1025
00:58:29.720 --> 00:58:31.720
to some of the great leaders of business,

1026
00:58:31.720 --> 00:58:35.720
and now I was being exposed to leaders

1027
00:58:35.720 --> 00:58:37.720
on a global stage of countries.

1028
00:58:37.720 --> 00:58:39.720
Sometimes they were monarchies,

1029
00:58:39.720 --> 00:58:41.720
other times they were elected democracies,

1030
00:58:41.720 --> 00:58:46.720
and then all sorts of variants of that, you know, were.

1031
00:58:46.720 --> 00:58:48.720
And you realize at the end of the day,

1032
00:58:48.720 --> 00:58:51.720
like people or people, you know, some of them,

1033
00:58:51.720 --> 00:58:53.720
their kids don't speak to them.

1034
00:58:53.720 --> 00:58:56.720
They got enough fight with their wife that morning.

1035
00:58:56.720 --> 00:58:57.720
They're, you know, they're just people.

1036
00:58:57.720 --> 00:59:01.720
And now some of them feel extraordinarily historic.

1037
00:59:01.720 --> 00:59:03.720
You made a person and say,

1038
00:59:03.720 --> 00:59:05.720
this person feels consequential.

1039
00:59:05.720 --> 00:59:07.720
Others of them, you leave and say,

1040
00:59:07.720 --> 00:59:11.720
I wonder how this person ever got elected to this, you know,

1041
00:59:11.720 --> 00:59:17.720
high office, but I think it removes the veil and the mystery.

1042
00:59:17.720 --> 00:59:20.720
And I think it removed from me a lot of,

1043
00:59:20.720 --> 00:59:22.720
any of like intimidation I may have

1044
00:59:22.720 --> 00:59:24.720
and like interacting with another human being.

1045
00:59:24.720 --> 00:59:27.720
Your security situation must have changed quite considerably.

1046
00:59:27.720 --> 00:59:28.720
It did, yeah.

1047
00:59:28.720 --> 00:59:30.720
You know, because politics is a dangerous game,

1048
00:59:30.720 --> 00:59:32.720
I think I heard something that said,

1049
00:59:32.720 --> 00:59:35.720
being president is the most dangerous job in the world

1050
00:59:35.720 --> 00:59:36.720
when you look at the fatality rate.

1051
00:59:36.720 --> 00:59:38.720
And obviously we've seen political assassinations

1052
00:59:38.720 --> 00:59:40.720
in this country, even in recent times,

1053
00:59:40.720 --> 00:59:43.720
but your father was also shot out, hit in the ear

1054
00:59:43.720 --> 00:59:46.720
when he was on the campaign trail more recently.

1055
00:59:46.720 --> 00:59:47.720
What's that been like?

1056
00:59:47.720 --> 00:59:50.720
And what does it actually, can you give me any specifics

1057
00:59:50.720 --> 00:59:52.720
and what that actually means?

1058
00:59:52.720 --> 00:59:54.720
When you become involved in politics,

1059
00:59:54.720 --> 00:59:57.720
how does life change from a security perspective?

1060
00:59:57.720 --> 00:59:59.720
Yeah.

1061
00:59:59.720 --> 01:00:02.720
I think, well, it changes radically.

1062
01:00:02.720 --> 01:00:05.720
Now we're protected by US Secret Service.

1063
01:00:05.720 --> 01:00:08.720
And I'm so grateful to the men and women

1064
01:00:08.720 --> 01:00:10.720
who take care of my family,

1065
01:00:10.720 --> 01:00:13.720
to care of my father, protected him,

1066
01:00:13.720 --> 01:00:15.720
and risking their own lives to do so.

1067
01:00:15.720 --> 01:00:18.720
And now do so for me and my children.

1068
01:00:18.720 --> 01:00:22.720
So very grateful to all of them.

1069
01:00:22.720 --> 01:00:24.720
But it's scary.

1070
01:00:24.720 --> 01:00:27.720
We live in very troubling times.

1071
01:00:27.720 --> 01:00:30.720
And the fact that there is a correlation

1072
01:00:30.720 --> 01:00:34.720
between service and violence

1073
01:00:34.720 --> 01:00:39.720
is terrible in and of itself.

1074
01:00:39.720 --> 01:00:41.720
But that's the world we live in.

1075
01:00:41.720 --> 01:00:44.720
So I have to acknowledge that reality

1076
01:00:44.720 --> 01:00:46.720
and defend my family as best I can

1077
01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:48.720
and make sure they're protected.

1078
01:00:48.720 --> 01:00:50.720
And I'm very fortunate that the Secret Service

1079
01:00:50.720 --> 01:00:53.720
are the best in the world at doing that.

1080
01:00:53.720 --> 01:00:56.720
Well, were you in 2024 in July when you heard the news

1081
01:00:56.720 --> 01:01:00.720
that your father had been shot in the ear?

1082
01:01:00.720 --> 01:01:02.720
There was an assassination attempt on his life.

1083
01:01:02.720 --> 01:01:03.720
Do you remember where you were?

1084
01:01:03.720 --> 01:01:05.720
And what's that like as a daughter?

1085
01:01:05.720 --> 01:01:08.720
What are all the feelings and thoughts?

1086
01:01:09.720 --> 01:01:12.720
I was in Bedminster, New Jersey.

1087
01:01:12.720 --> 01:01:16.720
And there was a lot of commotion

1088
01:01:16.720 --> 01:01:18.720
and the televisions were on.

1089
01:01:18.720 --> 01:01:21.720
So I saw it almost immediately, not in my house.

1090
01:01:21.720 --> 01:01:25.720
I actually don't love watching televisions.

1091
01:01:25.720 --> 01:01:28.720
But out by the pool and the bistro.

1092
01:01:28.720 --> 01:01:31.720
And it was almost real time.

1093
01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:36.720
It was before he had stood back up

1094
01:01:36.720 --> 01:01:39.720
and I had seen what was transpiring

1095
01:01:39.720 --> 01:01:42.720
and two of my children were there.

1096
01:01:42.720 --> 01:01:47.720
So my first reaction was to turn them away.

1097
01:01:47.720 --> 01:01:53.720
But it was incredibly difficult.

1098
01:01:53.720 --> 01:01:57.720
Interestingly, I knew real time in that moment

1099
01:01:57.720 --> 01:01:59.720
that he was fine.

1100
01:01:59.720 --> 01:02:05.720
I just knew that it wasn't his time.

1101
01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:10.720
So I was horrified and I was scared

1102
01:02:10.720 --> 01:02:12.720
and I was protective of my children.

1103
01:02:12.720 --> 01:02:15.720
But I also...

1104
01:02:15.720 --> 01:02:19.720
I didn't believe the worst possible outcome had transpired.

1105
01:02:19.720 --> 01:02:20.720
Thank God.

1106
01:02:20.720 --> 01:02:26.720
And thank God it hadn't.

1107
01:02:26.720 --> 01:02:29.720
And then I saw him that night when he came home from the hospital

1108
01:02:29.720 --> 01:02:31.720
because he was also staying.

1109
01:02:31.720 --> 01:02:33.720
That morning he had left from Bedminster

1110
01:02:33.720 --> 01:02:36.720
that evening he returned after he left the hospital

1111
01:02:36.720 --> 01:02:40.720
and slayed one to a clock in the morning

1112
01:02:40.720 --> 01:02:42.720
and Jared and I stayed up

1113
01:02:42.720 --> 01:02:45.720
and we met his cars he was pulling in.

1114
01:02:45.720 --> 01:02:48.720
And I just feel...

1115
01:02:48.720 --> 01:02:51.720
I feel like just incredibly lucky

1116
01:02:51.720 --> 01:02:54.720
that he was protected on that day.

1117
01:02:54.720 --> 01:02:58.720
But it's, you know, when...

1118
01:02:59.720 --> 01:03:02.720
You can't take things for granted in life

1119
01:03:02.720 --> 01:03:04.720
and I've learned that in numerous ways

1120
01:03:04.720 --> 01:03:06.720
that being one of them,

1121
01:03:06.720 --> 01:03:09.720
one of my mom passed prematurely

1122
01:03:09.720 --> 01:03:12.720
when my husband had a scare with cancer.

1123
01:03:12.720 --> 01:03:16.720
You know, all of these challenges that remind you

1124
01:03:16.720 --> 01:03:24.720
how finite and how precious every moment of this life we live are.

1125
01:03:24.720 --> 01:03:27.720
Make you realize you just can't take anything for granted

1126
01:03:27.720 --> 01:03:31.720
and I think as you move through them and, you know,

1127
01:03:31.720 --> 01:03:33.720
God willing, you're able to

1128
01:03:33.720 --> 01:03:35.720
and we were so fortunate that day

1129
01:03:35.720 --> 01:03:40.720
that this was a failed attempt to take his life.

1130
01:03:40.720 --> 01:03:43.720
I'm not a realized one.

1131
01:03:43.720 --> 01:03:47.720
But you just, I think, you recommit

1132
01:03:47.720 --> 01:03:50.720
to sort of love and connection

1133
01:03:50.720 --> 01:03:56.720
and to a recognition of how short

1134
01:03:56.720 --> 01:03:59.720
of time here on Earth is and how you have to value it.

1135
01:03:59.720 --> 01:04:01.720
Someone's shooting at your dad

1136
01:04:01.720 --> 01:04:03.720
and trying to kill your dad.

1137
01:04:03.720 --> 01:04:05.720
This is a quite a difficult question to ask,

1138
01:04:05.720 --> 01:04:07.720
but it's like if...

1139
01:04:07.720 --> 01:04:09.720
most of us will never be able to relate

1140
01:04:09.720 --> 01:04:11.720
to the fact that

1141
01:04:11.720 --> 01:04:13.720
members of the public

1142
01:04:13.720 --> 01:04:16.720
want our parents to be deceased.

1143
01:04:16.720 --> 01:04:19.720
And that's the reality of the situation for your father

1144
01:04:19.720 --> 01:04:21.720
is someone shot at him

1145
01:04:21.720 --> 01:04:23.720
was trying to execute him publicly.

1146
01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:26.720
I wonder how that, again,

1147
01:04:26.720 --> 01:04:28.720
doesn't make you

1148
01:04:28.720 --> 01:04:30.720
negative to the world.

1149
01:04:30.720 --> 01:04:33.720
Because I don't allow it to.

1150
01:04:33.720 --> 01:04:36.720
What is that accomplish being negative towards the world?

1151
01:04:36.720 --> 01:04:38.720
I think that

1152
01:04:38.720 --> 01:04:40.720
brings more negativity into the world.

1153
01:04:40.720 --> 01:04:43.720
Even for the person that's shot at your father?

1154
01:04:46.720 --> 01:04:50.720
There's a lot of sickness there

1155
01:04:50.720 --> 01:04:57.720
and I, you know, I think that

1156
01:05:03.720 --> 01:05:06.720
forgiveness is a difficult thing in this regard,

1157
01:05:06.720 --> 01:05:10.720
but I think you have to,

1158
01:05:10.720 --> 01:05:15.720
his living was a blessing.

1159
01:05:15.720 --> 01:05:18.720
So I could look at what happened

1160
01:05:18.720 --> 01:05:24.720
and be rightfully traumatized by the experience.

1161
01:05:24.720 --> 01:05:27.720
And nobody could really argue with that,

1162
01:05:27.720 --> 01:05:31.720
but you have to move through it.

1163
01:05:31.720 --> 01:05:34.720
And on the opposite side of that is the fact

1164
01:05:34.720 --> 01:05:36.720
that he's with us today,

1165
01:05:36.720 --> 01:05:39.720
that he didn't die, that my father is alive.

1166
01:05:39.720 --> 01:05:43.720
And that is an extraordinary blessing for me

1167
01:05:43.720 --> 01:05:45.720
as his daughter.

1168
01:05:45.720 --> 01:05:48.720
In life, you have a choice only in how you respond.

1169
01:05:48.720 --> 01:05:50.720
And I choose to

1170
01:05:50.720 --> 01:05:53.720
see the positive outcome

1171
01:05:53.720 --> 01:05:58.720
that transpired and well there.

1172
01:05:58.720 --> 01:06:00.720
The mind plays out scenarios, right?

1173
01:06:00.720 --> 01:06:01.720
The mind plays out the scenario

1174
01:06:01.720 --> 01:06:03.720
that where he didn't make it,

1175
01:06:03.720 --> 01:06:05.720
whether he turned his head in the other direction,

1176
01:06:05.720 --> 01:06:06.720
the bullet hit him,

1177
01:06:06.720 --> 01:06:09.720
and presumably he played out that scenario

1178
01:06:09.720 --> 01:06:12.720
of how different life would have been.

1179
01:06:12.720 --> 01:06:16.720
Well, seeing it on repeat for months on television

1180
01:06:16.720 --> 01:06:18.720
on the news was certainly not the easiest thing.

1181
01:06:18.720 --> 01:06:21.720
And that's part of why I just,

1182
01:06:21.720 --> 01:06:24.720
even before I'd never loved watching the news.

1183
01:06:24.720 --> 01:06:28.720
I'll read the news, but no, I mean he's here.

1184
01:06:28.720 --> 01:06:31.720
You know, really felt like a miracle and a blessing

1185
01:06:31.720 --> 01:06:33.720
and that's what I focus on.

1186
01:06:33.720 --> 01:06:35.720
I can see the emotion again in you,

1187
01:06:35.720 --> 01:06:37.720
which is again, it's fascinating to me

1188
01:06:37.720 --> 01:06:40.720
because I've heard people around you speak about it,

1189
01:06:40.720 --> 01:06:43.720
but the emotional toll seems to be more

1190
01:06:43.720 --> 01:06:45.720
still sort of present in you

1191
01:06:45.720 --> 01:06:47.720
about that incident than it does about other people

1192
01:06:47.720 --> 01:06:49.720
that I've heard speak about this.

1193
01:06:49.720 --> 01:06:51.720
Well, he's my father.

1194
01:06:51.720 --> 01:06:54.720
He's my father and he almost lost his life that day.

1195
01:06:54.720 --> 01:06:56.720
But he didn't.

1196
01:06:56.720 --> 01:07:00.720
And I feel truly grateful for that.

1197
01:07:00.720 --> 01:07:02.720
And in this second season of his presidential career,

1198
01:07:02.720 --> 01:07:04.720
you decide that you want to pursue.

1199
01:07:04.720 --> 01:07:06.720
Many other things.

1200
01:07:06.720 --> 01:07:07.720
Many other things.

1201
01:07:07.720 --> 01:07:10.720
I mean, you're a lot of other things.

1202
01:07:10.720 --> 01:07:13.720
You know, you're a lot more in a way

1203
01:07:13.720 --> 01:07:14.720
than your father.

1204
01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:18.720
You're the biggest development and real estate developments.

1205
01:07:18.720 --> 01:07:21.720
You step away from politics in 2022.

1206
01:07:21.720 --> 01:07:24.720
I believe you announced that you would not be returning

1207
01:07:24.720 --> 01:07:26.720
for the third election campaign.

1208
01:07:26.720 --> 01:07:30.720
You said at this time around I'm choosing to prioritize my young children

1209
01:07:30.720 --> 01:07:33.720
and the private life we're creating as a family,

1210
01:07:33.720 --> 01:07:35.720
I do not plan to be involved in politics.

1211
01:07:35.720 --> 01:07:40.680
to me as a human being. I was thinking this idea on about 30 minutes ago. I was thinking,

1212
01:07:40.680 --> 01:07:48.600
your nature, as I've known you, seems to be the antithesis of this type of world, like fame.

1213
01:07:48.600 --> 01:07:53.800
Totally true. There's this like gladiatorial aspect of it that's just like not for me.

1214
01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:59.160
I care deeply about policy, about helping people, and I think there's all sorts of ways to do that.

1215
01:07:59.160 --> 01:08:07.400
And I'm doing that now in the private sector, but I don't like politics, but I do care about

1216
01:08:07.400 --> 01:08:13.000
policy quite deeply, and I've tried to focus on that element of service.

1217
01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:19.240
And do you feel the need to express, you never do, because you don't punch back at the world

1218
01:08:19.240 --> 01:08:24.680
publicly, which is I think something to be admired, and I've learned actually quite a lot from

1219
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:28.840
everything you said there about not feeling the need to punch back at the world.

1220
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:39.560
It takes training. It takes real training. I was actually reading recently about the crow,

1221
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:45.000
and I thought it was like a great metaphor for life. So, crow's like a highly intelligent

1222
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:52.760
animal, extraordinarily so in some cases. But it can get aggressive and territorial, and it's

1223
01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:58.920
one of the only animals that will actually attack an eagle. Like a crow will go, and just sometimes

1224
01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:04.680
because it's being territorial, and other times are fun. And the crow will actually like mob the eagle,

1225
01:09:05.400 --> 01:09:10.680
and it will land on its back, and it will start pecking it. And the eagles response to this,

1226
01:09:11.320 --> 01:09:17.160
which naturally the eagles, many times over larger than the crow, isn't to like twist and turn

1227
01:09:17.240 --> 01:09:24.200
and knock the crow off, or defend itself, and then go on the offense. It's just a fly up.

1228
01:09:25.160 --> 01:09:31.560
And it flies up, while the crow continues to like just peck at its back, it flies up and up.

1229
01:09:32.120 --> 01:09:37.640
And the crow is not built for high altitude flight. So, at a certain point, as the eagle flies

1230
01:09:37.640 --> 01:09:45.800
up, not expending any energy in the counterattack, the crow just falls off. It can't sustain the altitude.

1231
01:09:45.800 --> 01:09:52.040
So, and I kind of love that analogy for life, because you have a choice. You know, you can turn

1232
01:09:52.040 --> 01:09:58.200
around, you can fight back, probably the eagle would win, or you can just, you know, play the game

1233
01:09:58.200 --> 01:10:03.320
on your own terms. And I think about that sometimes, and I thought it was like a brilliant metaphor

1234
01:10:04.040 --> 01:10:09.320
for dealing with the noise. And you trained that muscle. For sure. So there was a time when you did

1235
01:10:09.320 --> 01:10:13.720
care. For sure, because there was a time when I was just like confused, I'm like, well, but I

1236
01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:17.080
didn't even do that. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I don't even know what you're,

1237
01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:21.720
and then there's a sense of, well, that's unfair. Like, that's an unfair attack. And then you

1238
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:27.640
realize, like, a lot of it's unfair, especially in politics. Like, it's just like a team sport,

1239
01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:33.880
and people attack, and, you know, and, and people also, you know, put you up on a pedestal, and

1240
01:10:33.880 --> 01:10:39.560
you just can't get distracted by either. You just have to be yourself. And you have to fly up,

1241
01:10:40.440 --> 01:10:44.120
let the crows fall off. And, um, and that's it. That's all you can do.

1242
01:10:44.840 --> 01:10:49.560
Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Dr. Daniel Lieberman?

1243
01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:54.600
It was one of the most viewed conversations of all time on the Direverseo. And interestingly,

1244
01:10:54.600 --> 01:11:00.360
the most replayed moment of that entire conversation was when I talked about a specific pair of shoes

1245
01:11:00.360 --> 01:11:05.240
that I wear. They're called Barefoot shoes, and they're made by a brand called Vivo Barefoot,

1246
01:11:05.240 --> 01:11:09.240
who have become one of the sponsors of this show now. All of their shoes have significantly

1247
01:11:09.240 --> 01:11:14.280
reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity to strengthen just by wearing them.

1248
01:11:14.280 --> 01:11:19.000
And research from Liverpool University backs this up, they've shown that wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes

1249
01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:24.760
for six months can increase foot strength by up to 60%. So if you want to start strengthening

1250
01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:29.560
your feet, which are the foundation for the rest of your body, head to VivoBarefoot.com slash

1251
01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:37.720
DOAC. And if you do that, I'll give you 15% off when you use my code, Stephen B15. Use that code

1252
01:11:37.720 --> 01:11:45.000
to check out. And I'll also give you a 100 day money back guarantee. Stephen B15. Enjoy.

1253
01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:52.040
We have finally caved in. So many of you have asked us if we could bundle the conversation cards

1254
01:11:52.040 --> 01:11:56.040
with the 1% diary. For those of you that don't know, every single time a guest sits here with me in

1255
01:11:56.040 --> 01:12:01.000
the chair, they leave a question in the Direverseo. And then I ask that question to the next guest.

1256
01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:06.280
We don't release those questions in any environment other than on these incredible conversation cards.

1257
01:12:06.280 --> 01:12:11.960
These have become a fantastic tool for people in relationships, people in teams, in big corporations,

1258
01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:16.040
and also family members to connect with each other. With that, we also have the 1% diary,

1259
01:12:16.040 --> 01:12:20.520
which is this incredible tool to change habits in your life. So many of you have asked if it was

1260
01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:26.360
possible to buy both at the same time, especially people in big companies. So what we've done

1261
01:12:26.360 --> 01:12:30.360
is we've bundled them together and you can buy both at the same time. And if you want to drive

1262
01:12:30.440 --> 01:12:35.720
connection and still have it change in your company, head to the diary.com to inquire and our team

1263
01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:41.400
will be in touch. You are very different from your father. Now listen, I know you love your

1264
01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:46.120
father deeply. And I've watched you in every interview you've ever done to talk to that love.

1265
01:12:46.120 --> 01:12:51.480
And I have zero, exactly zero desire to ask you any questions or ask anything that's going to

1266
01:12:51.480 --> 01:12:58.280
try and drive a wedge or get you to say something that I think is not fair. But the thing I find

1267
01:12:58.360 --> 01:13:04.680
interesting is that how you make your way in the world and become your own person, when you do

1268
01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:09.320
have this derivative noise, that's trying to define you through things that you have never even

1269
01:13:09.320 --> 01:13:14.520
actually done. And I just find that fascinating. Life has clearly made you a stoke for this very

1270
01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:19.160
reason because you have to deal with, I guess, to some degree, being characterized in a certain way

1271
01:13:19.160 --> 01:13:23.480
for actions that you yourself haven't taken. So one has to become a stoic or else how can one possibly

1272
01:13:23.480 --> 01:13:29.000
survive? Like we all deal, I think, on microscopic levels with, like, right? Found the eye of

1273
01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:34.920
the hurricane. Yeah, yeah. I think that, like, I sometimes, like, feel a lot of gratitude for it,

1274
01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:42.120
because I think sometimes you keep being taught a lesson until you learn it. And I think as

1275
01:13:42.840 --> 01:13:49.240
somebody who always wanted peace and harmony, and I think I needed to, like, maybe it took this

1276
01:13:49.240 --> 01:13:53.960
level of intensity to be like, okay, you know, like, peace and harmony within the

1277
01:13:54.680 --> 01:14:00.120
context that I can help facilitate, you know, like, I can't control something so much

1278
01:14:01.160 --> 01:14:05.080
bigger than that. So sometimes, like, maybe that was my medicine, you know.

1279
01:14:05.080 --> 01:14:13.880
Did you get therapy? Not in my childhood. In actually, as an adult, I have a lot of

1280
01:14:14.360 --> 01:14:24.680
friends who are unbelievable, either teachers, professors, therapists, and I have, like, a very

1281
01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:29.240
growth-oriented mindset, as you could probably tell. Like, I'm always looking to learn about myself

1282
01:14:29.240 --> 01:14:35.400
and about the world. And so they've provided unbelievable perspective for me over the years.

1283
01:14:35.400 --> 01:14:39.080
I also think, because I imagine there's lots of people watching now who contend with their own

1284
01:14:39.080 --> 01:14:44.200
struggles, similar to that, dealing with the outside world. I think therapy can be amazing.

1285
01:14:44.920 --> 01:14:49.720
I think you have to have the right therapist, and somebody who helps you sort of process and

1286
01:14:49.720 --> 01:14:56.600
move through. I don't think it's like healthy to linger too long. Like, I think you have to

1287
01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:01.160
move forward. When did you decide to start seeing a therapist?

1288
01:15:01.320 --> 01:15:11.800
In my adulthood. Like, as an adult. And it was more just as, like, another tool for me,

1289
01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:18.120
in the same way that I meditate. You know, I view it as an opportunity to, like,

1290
01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:24.360
to do an internal inventory. Was there a catalyst? There's often a catalyst for my interview

1291
01:15:24.440 --> 01:15:26.840
people. Something happened. They realized that they needed more tools.

1292
01:15:28.200 --> 01:15:37.080
You know, I think some of the challenges around Jared's health, I just left.

1293
01:15:37.080 --> 01:15:44.440
Washington, our life, was in flux. Jared was diagnosed with thyroid cancer for a second time.

1294
01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:54.040
And then my mother passed. And I wanted to make sure I'm really good at being tough.

1295
01:15:54.840 --> 01:16:01.160
And I'm really good at kind of compartmentalizing. So it was more just like a check with myself

1296
01:16:01.160 --> 01:16:06.280
that I was also taking time to, like, you know, sort of, like, looking on the word and,

1297
01:16:07.240 --> 01:16:12.440
and, like, nurture myself. So it was not, it was not particularly, like, formal.

1298
01:16:13.960 --> 01:16:22.280
But it was more, you know, and I think when you can speak to people, you trust who are knowledgeable.

1299
01:16:22.280 --> 01:16:27.080
And just make sure you're, like, taking time to, like, really heal and not just move forward.

1300
01:16:27.080 --> 01:16:30.920
You struck me as someone that's been a lot of time being tough on the outside.

1301
01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:33.880
And because I like tough and super soft.

1302
01:16:35.480 --> 01:16:41.560
But I've kind of, but that's like where, you know, I have to, like, watch myself from,

1303
01:16:42.760 --> 01:16:47.640
because my life has always had such intensity, like, I can, like, move through things,

1304
01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:52.280
like I sometimes have to pull myself back and say, like, process. Because I don't believe that

1305
01:16:52.280 --> 01:16:57.480
you ever put something in a box. I think that thing that you're hiding from yourself

1306
01:16:57.880 --> 01:17:02.920
is with you every time you make a bad decision. And, like, driving the bus, you know, like,

1307
01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:08.120
it's, you may not be, like, fully conscious of it, but it's, it's like there. So you better

1308
01:17:08.120 --> 01:17:12.920
unpack it, and as close to real time as possible, I think, the better.

1309
01:17:14.200 --> 01:17:18.520
Yeah, in your context, I imagine as well, you can't just offload, like, the average person does

1310
01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:22.360
in every context, like, yeah, because there's consequences to that, whether it's trusting people,

1311
01:17:22.360 --> 01:17:25.960
whether it's the media trying to get something on you, you know, whoever it might be. So,

1312
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:33.160
and then, you know, you're in a family where, you know, it's important to keep a straight face,

1313
01:17:33.160 --> 01:17:36.120
especially in public a lot. And I was watching the footage from...

1314
01:17:36.120 --> 01:17:39.880
Yeah, people think I'm, like, have, like, a sort of, like, a stoic look in public. I'm very...

1315
01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:44.600
Yeah. But I have this time with you behind the scenes. Do you have this, sort of,

1316
01:17:44.600 --> 01:17:55.480
a bit of a dichotomy in the sense that you're, there's a real, like, pure, soft,

1317
01:17:56.920 --> 01:18:03.480
empathetic soul. And then it appears to me that life is

1318
01:18:05.160 --> 01:18:09.640
demanded for the survival in the context you've been in, that you pop a mask on in front of that

1319
01:18:09.640 --> 01:18:14.920
to keep a straight face and a tough demeanor and to not punch back and to suppress that in

1320
01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:19.880
certain contexts, because, frankly, you kind of have to, if you're in the shoes that you've had to

1321
01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:27.160
fill. And, well, I guess one can keep that, that mask, that tough exterior on too long.

1322
01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:32.360
Yeah. To the point of time. Well, I think you actually see it with a lot of politicians.

1323
01:18:33.320 --> 01:18:37.720
They feel an authentic because they are, you know, they've experienced so much that they,

1324
01:18:38.360 --> 01:18:43.960
they never allow the masks to slip. Yeah. I think one of the things that makes my father so unique

1325
01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:49.160
is how is he so authentic in a world where so few people are, like, in that profession, that realm.

1326
01:18:49.960 --> 01:18:55.400
And they're, like, almost like you look at, they feel like the robots, the way they speak,

1327
01:18:55.400 --> 01:19:00.440
the way they interact, the way they engage. Oftentimes you see that when you're with them one-on-one,

1328
01:19:00.440 --> 01:19:05.240
as you do, as it comes across, like, on a debate on a television set.

1329
01:19:07.320 --> 01:19:11.880
So I think there's a balance. Like, I don't think you need to be,

1330
01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:20.120
like, your most vulnerable self in the public. Like, why? Like, what is, I think you want to be

1331
01:19:20.120 --> 01:19:25.080
authentic, but I think, like, you should, like, you have to guard things about yourself, about

1332
01:19:25.080 --> 01:19:29.560
your family. And I think that's, like, healthy and good. And I do think there is a part of me

1333
01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:35.800
that's like, there's never been, like, there's no room for error, you know? Like, even as a child,

1334
01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:39.800
like, growing up in the public eye, it was always nervous about doing something and embarrassing

1335
01:19:39.800 --> 01:19:45.640
my parents and then politics and you have to be perfect. And any slip-up is completely

1336
01:19:45.640 --> 01:19:51.640
weaponized against you. So you become very careful publicly. I think the mistake, though, is people

1337
01:19:53.080 --> 01:20:01.240
get confused and they lose a sense of themselves. And they bring that into their relationships,

1338
01:20:01.240 --> 01:20:07.880
like, off the public stage. And I think that's really unfortunate.

1339
01:20:08.120 --> 01:20:14.760
You mentioned one of the catalyst moments for you seeking out some sort of more professional

1340
01:20:14.760 --> 01:20:22.760
support was the death of your mother, 2022. Another beautiful photo of her wonderful hair as well.

1341
01:20:28.280 --> 01:20:32.200
I'm trying not to cry again. That's okay. She's extraordinary.

1342
01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:35.720
Yeah. She was extraordinary.

1343
01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:42.520
That's okay.

1344
01:20:46.920 --> 01:20:53.400
She lived a good life, though. You know, I tell myself with my mom, she, like, really lived.

1345
01:20:54.280 --> 01:21:00.920
She had fun. So she taught me a lot about just like, you know, the presence I talk about,

1346
01:21:01.400 --> 01:21:06.920
just like, bringing in tension to what you do, bringing in, sorry.

1347
01:21:14.360 --> 01:21:24.520
She was very herself and she was very joyful and she loved to dance and she loved to play.

1348
01:21:24.520 --> 01:21:28.520
And so she lived, she lived a good life.

1349
01:21:37.720 --> 01:21:43.320
It's a really, it's an unbelievably tragic way to lose a parent is suddenly unexpected when they

1350
01:21:43.320 --> 01:21:50.040
are strong. I mean, it says a lot that your grandmother, which is her mother, still alive,

1351
01:21:50.040 --> 01:21:55.240
almost a hundred years old and she lost her life at 70 to falling down the stairs in her.

1352
01:21:55.240 --> 01:21:57.800
By the way, I said my grandmother was 98. She's 99.

1353
01:21:57.800 --> 01:22:05.800
Wow. Crazy. It's amazing. Yeah. No, it's very challenging and, you know,

1354
01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:07.640
grief is just

1355
01:22:08.040 --> 01:22:20.120
losing a parent. It's, it like hits different, you know, especially unexpectedly, especially

1356
01:22:20.120 --> 01:22:26.840
sort of post-COVID, which like kind of robbed so many of us of so many years, you know, some,

1357
01:22:26.840 --> 01:22:32.920
for some people they sort of sheltered together. And it actually created connection between

1358
01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:37.880
generations. And, you know, unfortunately, I was, she was in New York and I was in Washington.

1359
01:22:37.880 --> 01:22:46.360
So there was the, there was distance there just geographically.

1360
01:22:48.360 --> 01:22:55.160
But, but, you know, I really, like we really, as telling you before, we really keep her memory

1361
01:22:55.160 --> 01:23:01.800
life, like I really took the time to think about her, not through the eyes of the child,

1362
01:23:01.800 --> 01:23:07.240
to idolize her fully, but through the eyes of an adult who saw her clearly,

1363
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:17.880
her strengths, her challenges. And, like I think about, like my role as a parent to my own children

1364
01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:26.440
is to sort of stand guard against like to to make sure they're exposed to all the elements of her

1365
01:23:26.440 --> 01:23:34.120
that were amazing and, and share the stories and remind them. And also to like kind of,

1366
01:23:35.320 --> 01:23:43.720
like a lionist and guard against the passing on of, of, you know, challenges she had and,

1367
01:23:43.720 --> 01:23:50.200
and struggles and, um, and so I tried to do that with my own family. Have you grieved properly?

1368
01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:55.400
Yeah. Because you're very busy. I think it's, no, I think it's super important. And that's part of

1369
01:23:55.400 --> 01:24:01.080
the reason I really got introspective. I think wherever there's discomfort, that's where you have

1370
01:24:01.080 --> 01:24:05.320
to go. And, you know, I would talk about her and start to cry just like I'm still doing.

1371
01:24:06.360 --> 01:24:13.000
But in a different kind of way, you know, like I, I was avoiding for a moment, a very short moment

1372
01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:18.680
because I recognized it myself, like the discomfort and like, you have to like unlock that.

1373
01:24:18.680 --> 01:24:24.920
And you have to really make the time to think about and talk about and, and process.

1374
01:24:25.640 --> 01:24:30.600
On the business side of things, you have started in 2023, I believe, 41 years old.

1375
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:36.920
You co-founded Planet Harvest with one of your friends, Melissa Ackerman, inspired by your

1376
01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:42.840
experiences creating the USDA's farmers to family's food box program during COVID-19.

1377
01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:49.080
When I look at all that you do, you know, there's, you're doing this incredible project in Albania

1378
01:24:49.080 --> 01:24:55.000
to develop the land there. You are investing in technology companies. You're, you've got this

1379
01:24:55.000 --> 01:25:00.600
Planet Harvest project, which is incredible. And then you've got, you know, a family, which,

1380
01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:03.560
you know, talk about standing in guard in front of them and so on and so forth.

1381
01:25:04.520 --> 01:25:10.760
How, how do you balance all of this stuff? How does one balance it?

1382
01:25:10.760 --> 01:25:15.720
You don't, like, balance is elusive. Like, I think of balance. It's like a scale.

1383
01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:22.840
It's going to tip. You're one child's flu away from, like, complete imbalance, right?

1384
01:25:22.840 --> 01:25:26.760
Where you get the call from the school nurse and your son has to come home unexpectedly or,

1385
01:25:27.560 --> 01:25:35.320
or there's, like, a roadblock and a project you're working on or, you know, you can't striving for

1386
01:25:35.320 --> 01:25:45.720
balance is not like a practical pursuit. I think what I strive for is to live a life that aligns

1387
01:25:45.720 --> 01:25:53.720
with my priorities and to have more days than not that I feel like I've done just that.

1388
01:25:54.680 --> 01:25:58.600
And I think if you get that right most of the time, you're doing pretty well because balance

1389
01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:03.320
doesn't work. It's just like our lives are too hectic and there's too much outside of our control

1390
01:26:03.320 --> 01:26:11.960
to, to maintain that equilibrium. I'm so curious as to where you've, you know, I know you've read a

1391
01:26:11.960 --> 01:26:15.960
lot of Stoicism and you read a lot of books and you've, you've been to therapy but, you know,

1392
01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:22.760
you've, you contend with a lot businesses investing, the real estate projects, all the family

1393
01:26:22.760 --> 01:26:28.440
stuff, the broader noise. Yeah. And you've really, much of what I've learned about you is that you've

1394
01:26:28.440 --> 01:26:32.360
really managed to send to yourself on yourself. You've managed to sort of pull yourself in with

1395
01:26:32.360 --> 01:26:37.800
in a world that pulls all of us outwardly. And is there a particular book you might advise people

1396
01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:43.560
to read about this or is that they just have to have life hit them? Well, I think, you know,

1397
01:26:43.560 --> 01:26:49.000
religion for many people provides a beautiful framework, whether it's the Bible, the Torah,

1398
01:26:49.560 --> 01:26:58.600
you know, of, of, like, be a good person, like, really, um, live a purpose-driven, meaningful life.

1399
01:26:59.880 --> 01:27:05.800
So I, I think there's so much wisdom there and I, I think, you know, we talked about the Stoics.

1400
01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:11.240
I think there are some of the great guides. I also love some of the Eastern philosophies,

1401
01:27:11.240 --> 01:27:18.040
like I love Latsu and the Tao Te Ching is an amazing, kind of reminds me of like the,

1402
01:27:18.280 --> 01:27:23.960
it's like that similar to the philosophy of, of Judith Sue around just sort of presence and,

1403
01:27:23.960 --> 01:27:31.560
and not sort of fighting what is, you know, so much of suffering comes from a rejection of like,

1404
01:27:31.560 --> 01:27:40.120
what is, like, fighting something that it just is fact, as opposed to sort of that which is within

1405
01:27:40.120 --> 01:27:47.480
our control. So I, I'm actually very drawn to sort of Buddhism and Taoism and I personally feel

1406
01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:55.320
like very alive. Like I think you look at, if you, if you think back over the last week, and I

1407
01:27:55.320 --> 01:27:59.400
don't know what this is for you, but you think back over the last week, maybe even the last month

1408
01:27:59.400 --> 01:28:04.120
or the last day, like when you were in like a flow state, when you felt, felt most alive,

1409
01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:11.000
like that's your medicine, like that's like you in your essence. But so I try to also like put

1410
01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:17.720
myself in those situations as much as possible and, um, and make sure to like bring that into my life.

1411
01:28:17.720 --> 01:28:22.440
I'm fascinated by Planet Harvest, because you could have done so much with the leverage and,

1412
01:28:22.440 --> 01:28:27.080
and experience that you have, and you chose to build a business called Planet Harvest, which

1413
01:28:27.080 --> 01:28:33.560
you can find at PlanetHeifenharvest.com, that is helping to reduce food waste and creating change

1414
01:28:33.560 --> 01:28:37.800
for farmers across the country. Why have all the things that you could have aimed at? And I know

1415
01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:42.680
you're aiming at many at once, but why is Planet Harvest so central to your mission at the moment?

1416
01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:50.600
Thank you. I mean, this is truly like a mission driven, um, passion and pursuit of mind, and

1417
01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:57.480
I think I told you before that, like, there's nothing better than being obvious by being

1418
01:28:57.480 --> 01:29:03.080
contrarian. And, and that sort of how Planet Harvest was born, I saw through the COVID pandemic.

1419
01:29:03.800 --> 01:29:08.040
I got really close to the farmers because I created this farmer-to-family food box program

1420
01:29:08.680 --> 01:29:15.800
that created grants that would enable farmers to sell their perishable produce,

1421
01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:23.480
two-third parties, distributors, NGOs, churches, who would then get it to the last mile of needs,

1422
01:29:23.480 --> 01:29:28.360
ensuring that when people needed food, the food in the fields wasn't going to waste by being

1423
01:29:28.360 --> 01:29:32.680
tilled under as we saw in the early days of the pandemic. You know, the supply chain shut down.

1424
01:29:32.680 --> 01:29:38.840
So the restaurants were closed, the airlines, the hotels. So the farmers had no place to

1425
01:29:38.840 --> 01:29:43.000
to send their food and couldn't afford to take it out of the field. So we created a grant program

1426
01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:51.400
to enable that connection, but it really got me very close at a at a farm level to the farmer and

1427
01:29:51.400 --> 01:29:58.040
and their experience. And obviously that was a catastrophic time when there was just zero demands,

1428
01:29:58.600 --> 01:30:04.120
but I started seeing even a normalized situation. The amount of waste that happens on a

1429
01:30:04.120 --> 01:30:10.200
food, on a field level, on the amount of food, beautiful, nutritious, perfect food that's left

1430
01:30:10.760 --> 01:30:20.280
to rot in the fields while so many communities want for that form of nutrition. And I met a woman

1431
01:30:21.080 --> 01:30:28.200
who's CEO of the company and we decided to co-found an effort together to utilize this access

1432
01:30:28.200 --> 01:30:32.600
and create demand for it and and get it into the ecosystem, supporting the environment,

1433
01:30:32.600 --> 01:30:37.800
supporting these great American farmers. Like I'll just give you one example. I mean strawberries.

1434
01:30:39.240 --> 01:30:45.800
400 million pounds of strawberries every year get left in the field. It's not even taken out and

1435
01:30:45.880 --> 01:30:52.040
given. Not because they're imperfect. They're just don't meet a really rigid,

1436
01:30:53.480 --> 01:30:58.600
cosmetic specification that's defined by retailers oftentimes 20, 30, 40 years ago,

1437
01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:02.840
so that everything was very standardized. It's just a great way to solve a problem, provide

1438
01:31:02.840 --> 01:31:08.680
incremental revenue for farmers, which is so needed in such a tough business. So we're really

1439
01:31:08.680 --> 01:31:12.040
proud of of the work we're doing there. It's a beautiful, beautiful course. I think the links

1440
01:31:12.120 --> 01:31:16.360
link below if anyone wants to learn more. There's many details as I can about the project in

1441
01:31:16.360 --> 01:31:21.080
ways others can get involved, whether they're retailers or farmers or anyone that's interested in

1442
01:31:21.080 --> 01:31:25.400
getting involved. Avonka, we have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question

1443
01:31:25.400 --> 01:31:29.720
for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question that has been left for

1444
01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:36.920
you assumes you are a parent. So thankfully you are. Is if your oldest child came to you and said

1445
01:31:36.920 --> 01:31:43.080
they wanted to follow in your footsteps, what are the three pieces of advice you would give them

1446
01:31:43.080 --> 01:31:49.720
that would increase their probability of happiness and success? Oh, that's a great question.

1447
01:31:52.840 --> 01:31:58.920
I think first and foremost. That's your oldest? Yes. Airebela. So what would you say to

1448
01:31:59.080 --> 01:32:05.160
Airebela? She says she wants to be an entrepreneur and an investor. I think first, you have to love it.

1449
01:32:07.240 --> 01:32:12.920
I think especially if you want to be an entrepreneur, like the amount of work and dedication

1450
01:32:13.720 --> 01:32:20.040
and grind the challenges, the responsibility as you build a business for other people's livelihoods,

1451
01:32:20.760 --> 01:32:31.400
it's enormous and you know this. It can be very heavy to carry and I have never seen someone

1452
01:32:32.680 --> 01:32:37.880
at the peak of their game who doesn't absolutely love what they do. And I've seen a lot of

1453
01:32:37.880 --> 01:32:42.280
brilliant people I went to school with many of them who were way smarter than anyone else in the

1454
01:32:42.280 --> 01:32:50.360
class who flamed out by going in a direction that they were capable and proficient in without

1455
01:32:50.360 --> 01:32:56.360
passionate about. So it has to, you have to want it because if you don't, somebody who's less,

1456
01:32:57.880 --> 01:33:02.840
perhaps less capable, perhaps less smart, they'll work twice as hard and like you can't compete with

1457
01:33:02.920 --> 01:33:12.360
that. So that's number one. I think number two is you can't imitate anyone you have to be yourself.

1458
01:33:12.360 --> 01:33:17.400
And we've talked a lot about like knowing by yourself, but actually,

1459
01:33:18.200 --> 01:33:25.400
Naval, who's a friend of mine, who's who's great, he talks about like as an entrepreneur,

1460
01:33:25.400 --> 01:33:35.160
the importance of authenticity and how it's like it's the key. Like when you're copying,

1461
01:33:35.160 --> 01:33:41.080
you're losing. Like you have to be yourself and then nobody can compete with you. And so I think

1462
01:33:41.080 --> 01:33:46.280
you you have to sort of find yourself be yourself. You can't be derivative of anything else.

1463
01:33:46.280 --> 01:33:52.440
Of course, you can learn from others, but would you have to blaze your own course and as an entrepreneur

1464
01:33:52.440 --> 01:33:57.480
building something new, you have to have also like a tremendous amount of resilience through that

1465
01:33:57.480 --> 01:34:05.720
process. And you know, it's that's nuanced in and of itself because that doesn't mean like you

1466
01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:11.240
have to wear blinders and go when you know it's right, but you have to also, I mean they talk

1467
01:34:11.240 --> 01:34:16.920
about the famous pivot, right? Like you also have to pivot sometimes, right? So it's not, not

1468
01:34:17.080 --> 01:34:24.680
like a fault. You have to still be receptive to sort of incoming information, but for the most

1469
01:34:24.680 --> 01:34:30.600
part, like you have to go. And I think for a young person, I would tell my daughter, you know,

1470
01:34:30.600 --> 01:34:35.400
you're going to have to believe in yourself before the world believes in you. Like you can't wait

1471
01:34:35.400 --> 01:34:39.320
for the world to believe in you because if you haven't believed in yourself, you'll never get

1472
01:34:39.320 --> 01:34:44.920
there. So you have to start and that's why like I love talking like one of the things I've been

1473
01:34:44.920 --> 01:34:54.040
doing a lot of is investing in technology businesses, AI robotics, incredible founders and entrepreneurs

1474
01:34:54.040 --> 01:35:03.480
doing building generationally defining products and developing these amazing ideas. And I love seeing

1475
01:35:03.480 --> 01:35:08.040
the belief and the conviction they have in themselves. And sometimes like it's like their

1476
01:35:08.040 --> 01:35:14.280
experience doesn't match like their confidence, but like you have to start somewhere. And if you don't

1477
01:35:14.360 --> 01:35:18.840
like believe in yourself, you'll never get out of the gate. So believe in yourself.

1478
01:35:20.600 --> 01:35:27.240
Charge forward. And then when you start putting up some W's and getting some wins like the rest

1479
01:35:27.240 --> 01:35:34.280
of the world may or may not start to believe in you as well. Everyone can thank you. Thank you.