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I had to call one of the biggest movie stars,

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and she was at that time one of the biggest movie stars.

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I got to call her a pick for her.

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You can say that.

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She thought it was great.

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So, Mick, welcome to Half the Picture.

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How are you doing today?

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I am great.

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Thank you so much for having me here.

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It's our pleasure.

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We're, you know, we're such big fans of yours,

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and like, you know, I was saying to you before we started,

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but you're my favourite Dreamlander of John Waters,

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kind of famous Dreamlander troupe, you know.

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Thank you, that's very kind.

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All the amazing films you've made, Pink from Ingos,

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and Femal Trouble, and Hairspray,

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serial mom that you did with John,

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and but I'm a cheerleader as well.

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You have such a strong, indelible mark on cinema,

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so it really is just a pleasure to have you in.

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And am I right in thinking that this is your first time

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in London in decades?

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It is my first time in London in decades.

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I was here in 1967 for two days.

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Wow.

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Which barely counts, because I barely remember it.

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So, yeah, I would consider this my first trip.

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Wow, I mean, very different from 1967.

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I'm guessing this is it.

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I don't remember.

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And no, I don't think it is very different.

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London is old.

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So, you know, Los Angeles will change greatly in a few decades.

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London doesn't change so much.

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I think it looks a lot here like it did in 1800.

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So, not everywhere, obviously, but much of where I've been.

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Well, that's a sense of history, you know.

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It's like, I think that's what I hear sometimes when,

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like, you know, Americans come to the UK,

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like the UK, you know, the buildings are so old

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and the cities don't change.

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They don't have that drastic sort of change to play.

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So, it's quite, it's quite, it's very different.

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50 years old is old in Los Angeles.

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That's, that's tear down already and get rid of it old

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in Los Angeles.

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Here 50 years old is yesterday.

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And what have you been up to since you arrived?

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Oh, we've been really busy.

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The first day we went to the Tate,

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which was wonderful.

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We saw the Tate.

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We saw these amazing jokametti statues at the Tate.

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The second day we went to the British Museum,

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which was also spectacular.

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Tomorrow I'm going to the Victoria and Albert.

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Yesterday, which was Easter, we went to St. Paul's

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for their Easter afternoon.

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What do they call it?

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Even so. Even so.

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Which was really kind of, I mean, I actually was surprised

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because I grew up Catholic, you know,

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and my Catholicism as a child was very medieval

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and very ceremonial.

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You know, masses were still in Latin

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and everything was very, very, very pompous and theatrical.

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So when the choir processed in,

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I actually, a little tear in my eye kind of remembering

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the little, devout little Catholic child that I was.

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By the middle of the ceremony, I was completely over it.

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I mean, it didn't last.

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I still enjoyed the music.

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So I remember you saying once about your Catholic upbringing

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that like you were, by the time you were a teenager,

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you were more or less over.

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I was done.

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You were done of it.

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I was done, yeah.

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I was done and I was angry.

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And why were you?

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Catholicism, as the Catholicism that I experienced as a child,

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which may be very different from today's Catholicism.

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I mean, I know that it's very different.

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The emphasis was on sin.

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So all they wanted you to do was confess to how bad you had been.

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And that was just the emphasis was on sin

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and you're going to hell and you can't do this

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and you can't do that.

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And if you do this or that,

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I mean, I could have gone to hell

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for eating a piece of bacon on a Friday by mistake.

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I mean, if I had been hit by a bus

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after eating a piece of bacon, I would have gone to hell.

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I think that's a bit much.

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Just a little bit.

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A little bit tough.

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They have let that go.

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Times have changed.

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Times have changed.

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Yeah.

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And as I say, some of the movies that I mentioned at the start

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that you've done, some of the ones with John Waters

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like Mold Pullmaniacs, really, because John was Catholic too.

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John grew up Catholic as well, yes.

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And am I right?

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Am I right in thinking that he gave you the name, Mink Stoll?

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He did.

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Yes.

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So tell me about that.

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Well, my name is Nancy Stoll.

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That's the name I was born with.

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With Stolls spelled the two Ls, not an LE.

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And when we made our first movie together,

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which was called Roman Candles, which we made,

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I think the winter of 66, 67.

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I never liked Nancy Stoll as a name.

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It's two.

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There's a double sibling.

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And it always annoyed me.

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So I asked him to give me a new name.

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Now, you have to remember, this was the era of Warhol.

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This was the superstars.

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It was Hollywood law, and it was ultraviolet.

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It was Viva superstar.

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So I asked him to give me a new name,

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and he gave me the name Mink Stoll, the precious Jew hyphen EL.

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So it was Mink Stoll, the precious Jewel.

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And that was my credit for Roman Candles.

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After that, we dropped the precious Jewel.

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It was just a bit much.

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But he started introducing me to people as Mink,

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and people started calling me that.

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And it just stuck.

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I think if I had known that for the rest of my life,

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I would have a name that was a politically incorrect fashion

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now.

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I might not have kept it.

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I might have changed it to something else or let it go.

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But I'm kind of stuck with it now, and I'm OK with it.

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I like it.

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Do you say you identify more as Mink than Nancy now then?

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Everybody calls me Mink.

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The only people that call me Nancy are salespeople

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and flight attendants.

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I mean, nobody calls me.

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Only people that don't know me call me Nancy.

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Fair enough.

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And with John Waters then, because, as I say,

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I say, perhaps, you're most famous movies are with John.

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Yes, absolutely.

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Yeah, Pinkframing goes female trouble,

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multiple maniacs, Hesprey, serial mom,

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which is a favorite of mine.

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I mean, the list is on.

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I love serial mom.

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I love all of the movies.

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Of the original ones, though, I do think female trouble

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is my favorite of the early films.

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And serial mom is my favorite of the later films.

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That's two great ones.

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And you, because you play Taffy in female trouble, right?

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And I do.

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Yeah, your favorite character, the ones you played,

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am I right in saying?

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I loved Taffy.

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I related to Taffy, because even though our childhood

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were very different, I am the fifth of 10 children.

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Taffy was an only child.

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But Taffy, I always thought Taffy was an unhappy child,

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just looking for some love and attention

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from a relatively uncaring parent.

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And as a child from a large family,

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parental attention was in scarce supply.

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So I was always looking for more attention than was actually

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would have been my fair share under the circumstances.

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But your fair share, when you're a child,

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doesn't really matter.

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You just want more.

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So, and I was also in my family, one of my sisters

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was the artist.

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Another of my sisters was the smart one.

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You know, I mean, there were, and I was the brat.

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So I never thought I was a brat.

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I just thought I was unhappy.

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But this is why I related to it.

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So strongly with Taffy, I felt that she

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was absolutely misunderstood.

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And you put, and Taffy's divines daughter in the film.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And Divine was one of your co-stars across so many of those movies.

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Divine was wonderful to work with.

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Divine was really terrific.

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And I always felt challenged by it,

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because Divine was so big visually

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that I had to really be present in order to hold my own.

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But Divine was wonderful because he was, and I say he,

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because he referred to himself as he.

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He was a wonderfully generous actor.

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He never tried to pull focus.

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He never tried to upstage.

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He always paid perfect attention to whoever

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was in the scene with him.

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So it was really lovely to work with him.

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And of course, both of us, we always came ready.

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We always knew our lines.

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So we were prepared.

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And one of the things that used to get on my nerves a lot

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was when people would call us unprofessional.

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And I think there's a difference between unprofessional

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and untrained.

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We were definitely untrained.

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But we were very professional.

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We came to work ready.

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We didn't fool around.

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We had a good time, but there was room for a laugh or two

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on the set.

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But we weren't drinking and taking drugs and fooling around.

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We were absolutely there to work.

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And I think we did a good job.

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Well, yeah, I'd say so.

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The proof is there on screen.

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And because I've heard you say that before about how

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there were sort of labels of amateurism thrown at the movies

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that you made with John.

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But actually, you guys, like I say, you guys had the scripts.

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You guys had to memorize the amount of prep that

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went into those movies that you guys had to do.

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We did all of our scenes in the early movies.

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We did all of our scenes in master shots.

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We had several pages of script that

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had to be memorized from beginning to end

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because you didn't want to be the one who three pages

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in forgot a line.

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Because then you'd have to start over.

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Film was expensive.

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I mean, the budget for Pink flamingos was $12,000,

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which even in 1971 was not a lot of money.

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And a lot of that money went to film stock.

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So wasting film was the biggest crime we could commit on set.

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So we didn't.

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We knew our lines.

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Otherwise, John would get mad.

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Well, I don't know that he would get angry,

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but there was a look.

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He had a look, a patient, you know,

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passive-aggressive patient look that none of us wanted to see.

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Because you have to start at the top again.

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We have to start at the top.

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There was no coverage.

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No cutaways.

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I don't think we did cutaways until hairspray.

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I could be wrong.

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I haven't looked at every movie in a long time.

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But I know in hairspray, there are a lot of them

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because my caricature was used for them all but.

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And then, and with John then, because as you say,

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you've worked them so extensively over your career,

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and I want to say you've been in every feature he's made.

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Every feature.

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Yeah.

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Not every film.

264
00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:01.640
He's made some shorts.

265
00:11:01.640 --> 00:11:02.240
That's right.

266
00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:04.960
And do you remember your first meeting of him?

267
00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.760
Well, you know, I don't remember the exact moment,

268
00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:14.280
but we did meet in Provincetown in the summer of 1966.

269
00:11:14.280 --> 00:11:19.840
I had gone up there to visit my sister who was spending

270
00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:21.240
the summer there.

271
00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:23.000
And we were just walking down the street.

272
00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.320
And she knew John vaguely from Baltimore.

273
00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.560
Because I mean, we grew up in different neighborhoods, you know.

274
00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:30.280
And so we wouldn't.

275
00:11:30.280 --> 00:11:33.760
There was little way for us to have crossed paths actually

276
00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:35.720
in Baltimore.

277
00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.240
But she ran, we ran into him on the street and we introduced him.

278
00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.840
You know, I've said this before, but one

279
00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.280
would think that such a momentous meeting

280
00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:47.080
would have some weather effect.

281
00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:48.920
There would be thunder, there would be lightning,

282
00:11:48.920 --> 00:11:51.040
where the sun would come out from behind a cloud

283
00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:51.920
or something.

284
00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:53.800
None of that happened.

285
00:11:53.800 --> 00:11:56.040
And there was absolutely no way, of course,

286
00:11:56.040 --> 00:11:59.520
of knowing that my meeting, this person

287
00:11:59.520 --> 00:12:04.440
was going to have such an enormous impact on my life.

288
00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:06.280
But I was attracted to him immediately.

289
00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:09.200
He was incredibly smart.

290
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.640
You could see the intelligence just radiated from him.

291
00:12:13.640 --> 00:12:15.520
He had long stringy hair.

292
00:12:15.520 --> 00:12:19.960
He had, he was weighed four pounds.

293
00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:21.200
He was really thin.

294
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:25.640
He probably weighed about 110 or 120 pounds.

295
00:12:25.640 --> 00:12:27.440
And he was 6'1".

296
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:30.720
And of this long stringy hair, he did not have a mustache.

297
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.480
He was, yes, he was clean shaven.

298
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:34.960
The mustache came later.

299
00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:38.200
Actually, it was my sister, the one that introduced me to him

300
00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:41.680
who taught him, or actually introduced him

301
00:12:41.680 --> 00:12:44.080
to the Maybelline eyebrow pencil, which

302
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:51.360
is how he has a mustache, but he enhances it.

303
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.040
And he still does it.

304
00:12:53.040 --> 00:12:54.040
Maybelline.

305
00:12:54.040 --> 00:12:55.800
With a Maybelline eyebrow pencil.

306
00:12:55.800 --> 00:12:57.320
That's fantastic.

307
00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.640
And so when you met him, you didn't think immediately

308
00:12:59.640 --> 00:13:02.200
like, you didn't feel like a momentous meeting.

309
00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:03.880
You just know there was no way to know that.

310
00:13:03.880 --> 00:13:07.200
And I knew that I had met somebody interesting.

311
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:09.880
And of course, that was in the early part of the summer.

312
00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:12.280
By the end of the summer, he and I and my sister

313
00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:14.440
and several other people were all living together

314
00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:18.080
in a kind of a treehouse fort at the edge of town.

315
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:19.920
This building no longer exists.

316
00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:23.680
It's been torn down, burned down, I think, two years later.

317
00:13:23.680 --> 00:13:27.440
But I knew that he was an extraordinary human.

318
00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:29.280
I didn't realize that he was going

319
00:13:29.280 --> 00:13:32.280
to have this amazing impact on my life.

320
00:13:32.280 --> 00:13:39.880
But I did register to me that he was somebody different.

321
00:13:39.880 --> 00:13:43.040
His intelligence, his take on the world,

322
00:13:43.040 --> 00:13:47.280
he had more self-confidence than anybody

323
00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:49.080
that I'd ever met.

324
00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:53.240
And I found all of that incredibly magnetic and a little

325
00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.040
intimidating.

326
00:13:55.040 --> 00:13:56.160
Well, you say intimidating.

327
00:13:56.160 --> 00:13:58.280
Because that leads quite nicely into my next question, which

328
00:13:58.280 --> 00:14:00.520
was, so the movies that you and John made together,

329
00:14:00.520 --> 00:14:02.720
like pink flamingos and female trouble

330
00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.440
and multiple maniacs and desperate living,

331
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:07.960
which have gone down in history and have left such a mark

332
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.120
on cinema, the things you guys were getting away with

333
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.720
in those films, I mean, divine, obviously eating the dog shit,

334
00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:14.760
the end of pink flamingos.

335
00:14:14.760 --> 00:14:16.920
But some of the stuff you were getting away with too

336
00:14:16.920 --> 00:14:18.320
and David Locke were your co-star.

337
00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:20.240
I mean, were you ever intimidated

338
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.040
when you were making these movies about what you had to do?

339
00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:25.640
Actually, I wasn't.

340
00:14:25.640 --> 00:14:31.000
Pink flamingos was my third or fourth movie with them.

341
00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.920
And before pink flamingos was multiple maniacs.

342
00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:36.840
And I think that's probably one of the most shocking things

343
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:38.880
I ever did on screen.

344
00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:42.560
Or off was the scene in the church with divine.

345
00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:44.080
So the rosary job.

346
00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:45.480
The rosary job, yes.

347
00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:48.000
We won't go into tremendous detail on it.

348
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:53.440
But the, so I was already, I was ignored.

349
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.000
I was indoctrinated.

350
00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:00.920
I was already accustomed to the fact

351
00:15:00.920 --> 00:15:05.920
that I was going to be asked to do something insane.

352
00:15:05.920 --> 00:15:07.240
And I always found it funny.

353
00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:10.000
I mean, I enjoyed this doing the scene in the church

354
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.760
because it was gave me a chance to sort of get my back

355
00:15:13.760 --> 00:15:16.080
at Catholicism.

356
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.160
But I was just, we would get together.

357
00:15:20.160 --> 00:15:23.320
We would read the script.

358
00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:26.880
We would start movies without a completed script.

359
00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:28.520
I think we even started pink flamingos

360
00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:29.680
without a completed script.

361
00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:34.880
I mean, I knew, we all knew that divine was going to win.

362
00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:38.360
That the marbles were not going to come out on top of with this.

363
00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:41.240
But we didn't know exactly what was going to happen.

364
00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.000
And lots and lots of footage we shot

365
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.040
didn't make it into the film.

366
00:15:47.040 --> 00:15:53.720
But I just, we would get together, say, on a Tuesday night.

367
00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:54.760
We would film on the weekends.

368
00:15:54.760 --> 00:15:56.960
We'd get together on a Tuesday evening.

369
00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:57.960
And we'd rehearse.

370
00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:01.560
And by rehearse, I mean, John would read everybody's parts

371
00:16:01.560 --> 00:16:04.960
in exactly the same tone of voice, heavily

372
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.560
inflected, lots of italics.

373
00:16:07.560 --> 00:16:11.720
And then we would, we would film it on the weekends.

374
00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:13.960
So we would get together, we would, you know, we would read it.

375
00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:14.800
We would laugh.

376
00:16:14.800 --> 00:16:17.760
We all thought everything was salarious.

377
00:16:17.760 --> 00:16:22.000
And we were just fine with it.

378
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.160
Nobody barked.

379
00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:27.640
And if people were going to bark, they

380
00:16:27.640 --> 00:16:30.320
didn't get asked to be in the next movie.

381
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.520
And did you have many people bark?

382
00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:34.080
I think there were people who did.

383
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.800
I think there were certainly people who did.

384
00:16:35.800 --> 00:16:37.760
I wasn't involved in the casting.

385
00:16:37.760 --> 00:16:40.320
So I don't know who didn't, who didn't.

386
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.360
But it was all I know is I said, yes.

387
00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.120
And then I got to be in the next one.

388
00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:47.120
Yeah.

389
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:48.680
And the next one after that, yes.

390
00:16:48.680 --> 00:16:48.960
Yeah.

391
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.160
And it was you and the Dreamlanders, which, if anyone

392
00:16:52.160 --> 00:16:54.120
who doesn't know what the Dreamlanders were,

393
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:55.720
would you mind telling us what he would

394
00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:56.640
and what the Dreamlanders were?

395
00:16:56.640 --> 00:17:00.960
Well, the Dreamlanders was the core of us.

396
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:04.640
And it included, it included, you know,

397
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:09.560
the actors, divine and Mary Bibby and Pierce and Cookie Mueller.

398
00:17:09.560 --> 00:17:13.760
And I would say, Chan Will Roy and David Lockery and me

399
00:17:13.760 --> 00:17:15.520
and Edith Massey.

400
00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:18.840
And then there was also Vincent Perrano, who did the sets

401
00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:22.160
and who did an amazing job on all the sets.

402
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.480
And then there was Pat Moran, who helped with the casting.

403
00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:28.360
It was, you know, John's assistant producer

404
00:17:28.360 --> 00:17:31.760
or associate producer and his best friend.

405
00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:35.920
And that was Van Smith, who came in on Pink Flamingos

406
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:40.560
and created Divine's amazing look.

407
00:17:40.560 --> 00:17:42.680
You know, the shaved head, the yellow hair,

408
00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:46.600
that incredible red dress, you know,

409
00:17:46.600 --> 00:17:48.120
the divine wears at the end.

410
00:17:48.120 --> 00:17:52.160
So there was a core.

411
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:52.840
There was a core.

412
00:17:52.840 --> 00:17:55.680
And there were other people who came on later.

413
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.280
I mean, I would consider Ricky Lake even a Dreamlander,

414
00:17:58.280 --> 00:18:00.360
even though she came later.

415
00:18:00.360 --> 00:18:02.280
But some people came in, they worked with us,

416
00:18:02.280 --> 00:18:03.320
and they became family.

417
00:18:03.320 --> 00:18:04.960
Other people came in, they worked with us,

418
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:08.160
and we never saw them again.

419
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.800
So, you know, I mean, it was,

420
00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:14.040
but it was the early core, a Susan Lowe,

421
00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:15.960
would be a Dreamlander.

422
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.080
And if I'm forgetting a name, I'm sorry,

423
00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:19.240
because I might be.

424
00:18:20.320 --> 00:18:22.480
But yeah, but it was, it was those of us

425
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.360
who kind of kept showing up.

426
00:18:24.360 --> 00:18:25.200
Yeah.

427
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.520
And it was clear that you guys were all friends as well.

428
00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:28.880
Like you were friends.

429
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:29.720
Yeah.

430
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:31.480
We didn't spend every night together.

431
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:33.480
We, you know, we didn't hang out constantly,

432
00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:35.920
but we did spend time together.

433
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:36.920
And on the podcast recently,

434
00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.120
we've had a few different guests on

435
00:18:39.120 --> 00:18:40.520
from different disciplines of film.

436
00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:43.000
We've had film composers and film editors,

437
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:45.240
and as well as actors and directors.

438
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:46.400
And something I've been asking them is,

439
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.160
what makes a good, you know, insert job here?

440
00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.160
So it, what makes a composer, what makes a good editor?

441
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:55.000
And I guess like, what makes a good Dreamlander?

442
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.040
A, knowing your lines, showing up on time,

443
00:18:58.040 --> 00:19:01.320
being willing to do whatever John asked.

444
00:19:02.320 --> 00:19:05.320
Those are the three main things, I think.

445
00:19:05.320 --> 00:19:08.160
And, and a good sense of humor,

446
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.760
and a good sense, a good working ethic,

447
00:19:11.760 --> 00:19:14.880
and also being pleasant to be around.

448
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.240
Nobody wants to be around somebody on a film set

449
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:18.680
who's complaining all the time.

450
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:21.440
And believe me, we had costs for complain.

451
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:22.520
I mean, we never had food.

452
00:19:22.520 --> 00:19:24.120
We weren't fed.

453
00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:27.520
We didn't have food on the set until polyester.

454
00:19:27.520 --> 00:19:30.080
And we only had that because tab hunter was in it

455
00:19:30.080 --> 00:19:31.280
and he expected it.

456
00:19:31.280 --> 00:19:33.840
So, you know, I mean, there were,

457
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.480
there were plenty of things that we could have complained about.

458
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.960
Actually, I think I did bitch a little bit about my clothes

459
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.120
all being ruined and pink flamingos.

460
00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:43.760
I provided my own wardrobe for that.

461
00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:45.440
And did my own makeup and hair.

462
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:46.440
Yeah, well, speaking of which,

463
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.680
the glasses that you're currently wearing,

464
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.280
are they kind of like the Connie Marble?

465
00:19:49.280 --> 00:19:51.480
They're a little bit sweet nod.

466
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.760
But the Connie Marble glasses were much more exaggerated.

467
00:19:54.760 --> 00:19:56.240
They're much more pointed.

468
00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.000
They were green and they have lots of rhinestones on them.

469
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.840
Those glasses, by the way,

470
00:20:01.840 --> 00:20:03.680
are now in the permanent collection

471
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.280
of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences Museum.

472
00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:08.680
Wow.

473
00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.000
Yes, they had a major exhibit

474
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.600
that ran for about a year of John Waters

475
00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:16.400
called the Pope of Trash.

476
00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:19.680
And I donated the glasses to the exhibit

477
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:21.000
and then to the museum.

478
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:22.000
That's extraordinary.

479
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:22.520
Yes.

480
00:20:22.520 --> 00:20:23.520
That's extraordinary.

481
00:20:23.520 --> 00:20:24.440
It really is.

482
00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:26.000
Would you have thought back in 1972

483
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.880
that pink flamingos would be,

484
00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.080
and the other films would be as celebrated as they are

485
00:20:30.080 --> 00:20:31.440
in the Library of Congress?

486
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:32.800
No, absolutely not.

487
00:20:32.800 --> 00:20:35.360
And I'm actually, I mean, I've said this many times

488
00:20:35.360 --> 00:20:38.440
and I will say it forever, I'm glad we didn't.

489
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:39.560
I'm glad I didn't.

490
00:20:39.560 --> 00:20:42.360
I think it would have made us self-conscious.

491
00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:44.240
And I think it would have made,

492
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.080
it would have made me a nightmare.

493
00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:47.440
I would have been insufferable.

494
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.200
Had I thought back then that people would still care

495
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:52.960
about what we had done,

496
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:57.360
about what we were doing 50 and more years on,

497
00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:59.600
I would have just been a conceit as little breath.

498
00:20:59.600 --> 00:21:00.800
I would have been awful.

499
00:21:00.800 --> 00:21:04.400
It would have been like, Taffy wasn't conceited.

500
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.640
Taffy had strong will, but she wasn't conceited.

501
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:08.560
She just needed love.

502
00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:09.800
She needed love, yes.

503
00:21:09.800 --> 00:21:11.400
Well, most conceited people do.

504
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:14.520
But, you know, I think major conceit

505
00:21:14.520 --> 00:21:16.240
is generally a sign of insecurity.

506
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:17.840
And, you know, so I think,

507
00:21:17.840 --> 00:21:19.640
no, I would have been insufferable.

508
00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:24.640
The only person who, I think John, nobody can predict the future.

509
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.800
I think John was ready to be a big deal

510
00:21:28.800 --> 00:21:30.760
and divine was ready to be a big deal.

511
00:21:30.760 --> 00:21:34.640
Divine was ready to, I would not have been ready.

512
00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:37.800
And speaking of divine,

513
00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:40.840
I asked you earlier what your first memories were

514
00:21:40.840 --> 00:21:41.680
of meeting John.

515
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:43.120
I mean, do you remember your first memories

516
00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:43.920
of meeting divine?

517
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.400
Actually, I sort of do.

518
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.720
I think if I'm remembering it correctly,

519
00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.920
I think it was a party and I think I was on LSD.

520
00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:02.920
But, you know, the person that I met was Glenn Milstead.

521
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:10.920
Yes, of course, divine had not yet been created.

522
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.920
And he was, Glenn Milstead that I met was very friendly

523
00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:19.920
and very sweet and charming.

524
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.920
But I think we took a lot of acid back then.

525
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:24.920
Never when we were working.

526
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:28.920
But, you know, but often on weekends or, you know,

527
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:30.920
on weekends when we weren't working.

528
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.920
John just tell stories about how he would go watch

529
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.920
Filini movies and ink my burger movies on acid.

530
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:38.920
And he would bring Glenn with him.

531
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:42.920
And he would just like, you know, what was going on?

532
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:44.920
You know, all this, he's insane images.

533
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.920
But I can only imagine Filini on acid is just 10 times better.

534
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:50.920
Juliet of the Spirits is an acid trip without acid.

535
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:53.920
That's right. Yeah, the technical.

536
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:54.920
So, yeah.

537
00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:56.920
And also technical color.

538
00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.920
I mean, pink for me goes with the first movie you guys made in color.

539
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:02.920
And John made sure you took full advantage of that with the hair.

540
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:05.920
Absolutely. The hair was very important.

541
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:07.920
I mean, divine had the yellow hair.

542
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.920
And he wanted me to have bright red hair

543
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.920
and he wanted David Lockery to have the blue hair.

544
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:16.920
And it was David who actually came up with the way

545
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:19.920
that we were able to do this.

546
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:22.920
You couldn't just go to a drugstore and by manic panic.

547
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.920
It didn't exist or go to a salon.

548
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.920
So we had to invent them.

549
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:34.920
And what David did was he bleached both of our hair out to total white.

550
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:39.920
And then he took the blue felt out of a magic marker

551
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:41.920
and used that to color his hair.

552
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.920
And I used a accountant's ink.

553
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.920
It was called quink.

554
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:49.920
And a little blue bottle.

555
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.920
And it was red ink that accountants would use for their debits in a ledger.

556
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:57.920
And I would mix that with shampoo and wash my hair with it the night before we shot.

557
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:00.920
And that was how I got that color.

558
00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:03.920
Because John says that like, you know,

559
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.920
early 70s sort of Baltimore, you know, it's always quite conservative.

560
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:08.920
Like you and David, when you were going, you know, in character,

561
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:11.920
it couldn't really go out and like out and about as well.

562
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:13.920
Well, we could, but we were stared at.

563
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:16.920
So yeah, people, you know, because that amazing scene in pink finger

564
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:19.920
is when devines walking down the street in the neighborhood

565
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.920
and the girl can't help it's playing.

566
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:23.920
And you know, people are just gulping.

567
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.920
And that was just divine walking down the street

568
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:29.920
and John in a car with a camera following alongside.

569
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.920
I mean, those, those are not paid extras.

570
00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:34.920
Those are actually people on the street.

571
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:35.920
Yeah.

572
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:37.920
And didn't he want to say it didn't,

573
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.920
was there an original idea in the script that at one point your hair was going to get set on fire?

574
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:43.920
Yes, that was.

575
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:48.920
And I actually had agreed to let him do it.

576
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:51.920
And then I check it out.

577
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:54.920
What he wanted was for me to sit in a chair.

578
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:58.920
I think I've told this story before, but I was sitting in a chair

579
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:00.920
and not react.

580
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:02.920
There'd be one person over here with a match

581
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:05.920
and another person over here with a bucket of water.

582
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:07.920
And the line would be said, I forget,

583
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:10.920
the divine would say, liar, liar hair on fire.

584
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:12.920
And the match person would come and light it.

585
00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:16.920
And then the bucket person would come and put it out.

586
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:18.920
Now, these were not professional.

587
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:20.920
These would just be people who had nothing else to do that afternoon.

588
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:22.920
And we're willing to play with us.

589
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:24.920
So,

590
00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:28.920
but the thing that made me realize that I couldn't do it

591
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:31.920
was that John wanted me to do it without reacting.

592
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:33.920
Right.

593
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:39.920
And then I also realized that it was the most amazingly dangerous thing I could think of.

594
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:41.920
I mean, look what happened to Michael Jackson.

595
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:43.920
I mean, it burnt his scalp.

596
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.920
So, and not only that,

597
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:48.920
when you think about pink flamingos,

598
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.920
and you think about the ending of pink flamingos,

599
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:54.920
by the time we got to the end of the movie,

600
00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:56.920
no one would remember,

601
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:58.920
divine eight dog shit.

602
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.920
No one would remember that my hair color on fire.

603
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.920
Not only that, if it didn't work,

604
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:07.920
I could be bald.

605
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:10.920
And the scene would end up on the cutting room floor.

606
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.920
It was a ridiculous thing.

607
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:14.920
But I had agreed to it.

608
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:16.920
So, you know, it was,

609
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:18.920
then I had to say, by the way,

610
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:20.920
I'm not doing that.

611
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:22.920
That was not a comfortable conversation.

612
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:24.920
It was John a little bit.

613
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:26.920
Well, he'd been counting on it.

614
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:29.920
You know, I mean, he'd written the scene and he was counting on it.

615
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:33.920
He eventually understood that I was right.

616
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:36.920
And that doing it was really not a good idea.

617
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:38.920
You still got, I mean, you got your innings in there,

618
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.920
and over at Riverways in that film,

619
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:42.920
like, you know, the stuff that, you know,

620
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:44.920
you and David sort of as contenders

621
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:46.920
for the filthiest person alive.

622
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.920
Well, I did almost set myself on fire.

623
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:53.920
If you look at the scene where we're setting the trailer on fire,

624
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:55.920
I pulled the torch back,

625
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:57.920
and it almost catches my coat,

626
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:02.920
which was made of some cheap synthetic material,

627
00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:05.920
so it could have gone right up.

628
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:06.920
It didn't.

629
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:07.920
It didn't.

630
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:08.920
We were very lucky.

631
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.920
Very lucky.

632
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:11.920
And so many of the lines that you've had on screen

633
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:13.920
through those films have kind of, as I say,

634
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:16.920
been become part of the indelible impact and are so memorable.

635
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:18.920
I mean, even though Divine was in many ways,

636
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:20.920
kind of like taking center stage in those films,

637
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:24.920
I mean, so many of like my favorite lines were the ones that you had.

638
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:25.920
Like in Pixfengo,

639
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.920
it was like, you know, when you're doing interview with Miss Sandstone.

640
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:29.920
Oh, they're two kinds of people.

641
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.920
Miss Sandstone, yes.

642
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:31.920
Yes, yes.

643
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:32.920
That's a great line.

644
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:34.920
And just for no reason at all,

645
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:36.920
I will tell you that Miss Sandstone,

646
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:37.920
her name was Nancy Crystal.

647
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.920
She was my very best friend when we were children.

648
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:41.920
So you've wrapped us in that scene?

649
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:42.920
Yes, the actress in the scene.

650
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:43.920
Yes.

651
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:45.920
When she and I were between the ages of six and eight,

652
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.920
she lived right across the alley from me.

653
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:50.920
You know, there was an alley that went between our two streets,

654
00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:52.920
and we would spend almost,

655
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.920
we used to steal cigarettes from our dads when we were eight,

656
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.920
or seven,

657
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:59.920
and go off in the, you know,

658
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:01.920
sneak down the street into the woods.

659
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:02.920
We live near woods,

660
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:04.920
sneak down into the woods and smoke cigarettes.

661
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:06.920
I mean, we didn't inhale,

662
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:08.920
but we smoked.

663
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:10.920
We were very sophisticated, seven-year-olds.

664
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:13.920
And so when Pixfengo's was coming around,

665
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:15.920
you drafted her in, or John got her in.

666
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:16.920
I think John got her in.

667
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:17.920
She had moved away.

668
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:20.920
So I had, you know, we had lost touch.

669
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:22.920
Very, when we were eight,

670
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:23.920
we lost touch.

671
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:25.920
Our parents moved to Pekipsi,

672
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:26.920
New York.

673
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.920
So we had lost touch.

674
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:31.920
But it was nice to see her again.

675
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:33.920
And it was good to work with her.

676
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:35.920
Yeah. Well, it's such a great scene.

677
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:37.920
And in fact, there's this video on YouTube,

678
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.920
which was actually the first time I would have seen any John Waters

679
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:42.920
themed thing, or you,

680
00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:43.920
on screen.

681
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:44.920
There's a video on YouTube,

682
00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:47.920
which is like the top hundred greatest movie insults of all time.

683
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:49.920
And it's been up on YouTube for a long time.

684
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:51.920
It's kind of from the early days of YouTube.

685
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:53.920
And that line, your line is in there.

686
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:54.920
Oh, good. I didn't know that.

687
00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:55.920
It's one of those.

688
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:56.920
It's one of the hundred greatest.

689
00:28:56.920 --> 00:28:57.920
One of the hundred greatest.

690
00:28:57.920 --> 00:28:59.920
Do you know what number it is?

691
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:00.920
It's the penultimate one.

692
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:01.920
So that could be number two.

693
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:02.920
Oh, okay.

694
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:03.920
That could be number two.

695
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:04.920
Yeah.

696
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:05.920
It's either number two or ninety nine.

697
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:06.920
Let's go with two.

698
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:07.920
Let's go take it.

699
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:08.920
And then is that your,

700
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:09.920
is that one of your favorite lines?

701
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:11.920
Do you have a favorite line from those fours?

702
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:12.920
Yeah.

703
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:14.920
Because another great one from a female trouble is,

704
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:15.920
is it tap?

705
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:16.920
No, tap.

706
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:17.920
He says, yes.

707
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:18.920
I wouldn't suck your lousy dick if I was suffocating

708
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:19.920
that one oxygen in your balls.

709
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:20.920
Yeah.

710
00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:22.920
Which is grammatically incorrect.

711
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:24.920
It should be if I were suffocating.

712
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:26.920
And there were oxygen in your balls.

713
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:28.920
And my Catholic school.

714
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.920
Nons would have probably been very upset with me

715
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:33.920
for being grammatically incorrect,

716
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:34.920
as well as for just saying,

717
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:35.920
line inch.

718
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:36.920
In the first place.

719
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:38.920
But, um,

720
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:41.920
I have used that line on occasion on the street

721
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:43.920
to get rid of unwanted attention.

722
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.920
Really?

723
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:45.920
It works.

724
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:46.920
Does it?

725
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:47.920
Of course it does.

726
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:49.920
It's like, huh?

727
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:50.920
Never mind.

728
00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:51.920
I'm leaving.

729
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:53.920
And these just like people,

730
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:55.920
like, you know, like handing out leaflets or like.

731
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:56.920
Well, no, it's not that.

732
00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.920
You know, just, you know, back in the day

733
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:01.920
when I still got whistled at, you know,

734
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:03.920
like, I used to be young.

735
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:05.920
So, uh, you know,

736
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:06.920
I could, you could use,

737
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:07.920
it could use it for them.

738
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:09.920
Or, hey, baby, you know,

739
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:10.920
it works for that.

740
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:11.920
Sure.

741
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:12.920
Did you know that cat calling

742
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:13.920
and sort of public sexual harassment

743
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:15.920
has just been illegalized in the UK?

744
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:16.920
Illegalized.

745
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:17.920
Yeah, illegalized.

746
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:18.920
Yes.

747
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:19.920
Right.

748
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:20.920
So you can't do any of that.

749
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:21.920
You can't do it.

750
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:22.920
Yeah.

751
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:23.920
It's punished by the law.

752
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:24.920
Yeah.

753
00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:26.920
It's a huge task force.

754
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:29.920
Just out making sure that never happened.

755
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:31.920
Well, hey, yeah, it can be reported.

756
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:32.920
Okay.

757
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:33.920
Well, it's good.

758
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:34.920
I'm glad to hear that.

759
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:35.920
No one will have to use that.

760
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:37.920
No, I will ever have to say it here again.

761
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.920
And then after female trouble,

762
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:41.920
you made desperate living,

763
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:42.920
which isn't,

764
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:44.920
which is one of my personal favorites of those sort of early,

765
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:46.920
uh, sort of trinity of trash,

766
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:47.920
uh, movies that you made of John.

767
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.920
And divine wasn't available for that as.

768
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:50.920
Divine was here.

769
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:52.920
Yeah, doing a stage show.

770
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:53.920
Yes.

771
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:54.920
Yeah.

772
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:55.920
I think it was women behind bars.

773
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:56.920
I'm not sure, but divine is here.

774
00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:57.920
Women behind bars.

775
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:00.920
And then that meant that you kind of became the lead in many.

776
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:01.920
Kind of.

777
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:02.920
Yeah.

778
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:03.920
What was that like?

779
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:05.920
Well, we missed divine.

780
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:06.920
Obviously.

781
00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:10.920
I mean, it felt strange to be on a movie set without him.

782
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:11.920
Um, but it was great.

783
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.920
I mean, I loved having my part.

784
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:18.920
I really enjoyed being peggy gravel monster woman

785
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.920
who was just mean for no reason.

786
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:24.920
I mean, her bad temper was never explained.

787
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:28.920
And her leg brace was never explained.

788
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:29.920
Even to me.

789
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:33.920
So, um, yeah, a peggy was fun.

790
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:35.920
And I enjoyed peggy.

791
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:36.920
And I enjoyed it.

792
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:42.920
I mean, Susan Lowe did an amazing job as Rastlin Rita.

793
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:44.920
You know, so I thought Susan did it.

794
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:46.920
That's the part that divine would have had.

795
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:47.920
Mm-hmm.

796
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:48.920
Mole, right?

797
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:49.920
Yeah.

798
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:51.920
And I thought she did a great job.

799
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:53.920
And Liz Renee was a hoot.

800
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:56.920
You know, so I mean, it was it was another fun set.

801
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.920
And of course, that was the year or the movie where we got Gene Hill.

802
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:01.920
Mm-hmm.

803
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:07.920
Who was as visually astonishing as Edith Massey or divine.

804
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:08.920
Mm-hmm.

805
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:10.920
And Edith Massey, of course, is the queen.

806
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:11.920
Is the queen.

807
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:13.920
I mean, somewhere, you know, like gets all these sort of these,

808
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.920
one of these crazy outfits and, you know,

809
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:18.920
and the productions of that movie is so interesting.

810
00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:19.920
Karenio again, right?

811
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:20.920
Yes, absolutely.

812
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:22.920
And it does feel like with each movie, like,

813
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:24.920
each movie kind of builds on the last one in terms of, like,

814
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:26.920
there'll be a new skills we'll learn.

815
00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:27.920
And they got more ambitious.

816
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:28.920
Is that how it felt?

817
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:29.920
Well, there was more money.

818
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:30.920
Mm-hmm.

819
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:32.920
You know, each movie had a slightly larger budget.

820
00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:36.920
So it was, you know, more money means more plywood.

821
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:45.920
The castle, the external castle was just plywood.

822
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:51.920
But the interior shots were filmed in a loft.

823
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:53.920
We had a semi-sound stage.

824
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:57.920
It wasn't really a sound stage, but we had a loft that we filmed.

825
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:03.920
But I didn't have anything to do with it that Vincent was able to build.

826
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:06.920
And so we were able to do all the interiors.

827
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:08.920
But they was cold.

828
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:11.920
It was very cold while we were doing the outsides.

829
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:14.920
I get the sense that cold was quite a common theme on those early movies.

830
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:15.920
Right.

831
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:16.920
We always did them in the winter.

832
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:17.920
In the winter.

833
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:18.920
Yeah.

834
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:19.920
Yeah.

835
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:20.920
Like pink flamingos is up in the hills in sort of Maryland.

836
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:21.920
Sorry, in the middle of winter.

837
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:22.920
Yes.

838
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:23.920
It was.

839
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:25.920
It was in, yeah, out in the woods.

840
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:26.920
Yeah.

841
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:28.920
And there was no sort of money for heating.

842
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.920
There was no heating.

843
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.920
I mean, the person who suffered, who really suffered was Edith.

844
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:41.920
I mean, she had to sit in a trailer, in a play pen, in her underwear.

845
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:45.920
No windows, no heat for hours and hours.

846
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:48.920
And no food for hours at a time.

847
00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:51.920
And you can see her breath.

848
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:58.920
I mean, I can't even remember because I wasn't there most of the days that Edith was filming.

849
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:00.920
I didn't just go to hang out.

850
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.920
If I wasn't shooting, I wasn't there.

851
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:10.920
I would imagine that some kind person put a blanket over her between ticks.

852
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:13.920
But I'm not 100% sure of that.

853
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.920
Yeah, because she's just there in her, basically on her underwear.

854
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:18.920
And there's no glass in the windows.

855
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:19.920
No.

856
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:20.920
So it can imagine how.

857
00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:22.920
It's not a functioning trailer.

858
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:26.920
It's a shell of a trailer that they found in Vincent.

859
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:28.920
Decorated.

860
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:29.920
So.

861
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:30.920
Yeah.

862
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:36.920
And that's reliving them in that because that's getting, I want to say that's currently being remastered in 4K by the criteria.

863
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:37.920
It is.

864
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:38.920
It is, yes.

865
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:39.920
Yeah.

866
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.920
And I saw just a snippet of it a couple of weeks ago.

867
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:51.920
I did some b-roll for them and the, and I saw just a moment of it and it's astonishing.

868
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:59.920
I saw a scene where one of Queen Carlotta's goons is servicing her.

869
00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:04.920
And I can see hairs on his butt.

870
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.920
It's like, whoa.

871
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:09.920
John, what is in 4K?

872
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:10.920
Exactly.

873
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:13.920
In some ways, how it was meant to be seen, but also how it should be seen.

874
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:14.920
How it should be seen.

875
00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:17.920
All those grotesque sort of details that were kind of.

876
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:19.920
They're part of it.

877
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:26.920
You know, I mean, we made a gritty film and we made a low budget film and there's nothing to be ashamed of.

878
00:35:26.920 --> 00:35:32.920
So, I mean, I think celebrating the fact that so much was able to be done for so little.

879
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:33.920
Absolutely.

880
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:34.920
Yeah.

881
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:35.920
Yeah.

882
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.920
And isn't it true that when they were being remastered by criterion and companies like that,

883
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:42.920
there were, there were sort of things on the audio tracks and in the picture that were kind of,

884
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.920
that had been invisible for so many years because of the DVD and on VHS.

885
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:50.920
There wasn't, those details just didn't come, you weren't able to see them or hear them.

886
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:51.920
Is that right?

887
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:53.920
I think so.

888
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:55.920
I could tell you the absolute truth.

889
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.920
I have not watched them.

890
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:05.920
I am not glorious once in sitting alone in the dark watching my own films.

891
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.920
So, I forget the character that I forget.

892
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:09.920
You know the movie that I'm talking about.

893
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:10.920
Sonsetful of audio.

894
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.920
Yeah.

895
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:12.920
Sonsetful of audio.

896
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:18.920
I can't remember her actual, the name of her character, but yeah, I don't do that.

897
00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:20.920
Do you ever go back and revisit them?

898
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:22.920
I mean, you know, just first.

899
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.920
We look at a lot of film clips in the show that I'm doing with Peach's Christ.

900
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:31.920
You know, we show a lot of film clips, so I do see them then.

901
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:42.920
But no, it's been, I saw serial mom a couple of years ago when we had the big major show at the Academy Museum in Los Angeles.

902
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:46.920
There was a screening of serial mom that I went to.

903
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:48.920
And I enjoyed it very much.

904
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:50.920
I think it's a really fun movie.

905
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:56.920
But no, I haven't actually popped in a DVD of Pink flamingos and watched it at home for a long time.

906
00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:58.920
Or ever.

907
00:36:58.920 --> 00:36:59.920
That's fair enough.

908
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:00.920
That's fair enough.

909
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:05.920
I mean, as I say, like, because those early movies for so long, the Dreamlanders and John were kind of seen as the outsiders.

910
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:06.920
Yes.

911
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:15.920
And then with something like when films like serial mom and hairspray, especially came along, like you, it felt like the Dreamlanders finally cracked the mainstream.

912
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.920
It felt like people suddenly kind of realized, oh, you know, what's this?

913
00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:19.920
You know, it was something new.

914
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.920
I mean, is that how, how did it feel at the time for that?

915
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:26.920
Well, hairspray was, hairspray was the first union film.

916
00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:33.920
So that changed a lot of things that meant everybody got food.

917
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:37.920
But it was, I'll just keep my mother.

918
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:39.920
I'll use my mother as an example.

919
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:45.920
My mother actually went to a screening of the first movie, Roman Candles.

920
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:54.920
And in that movie, there is a scene where a woman, you know, nuns outfit with a full face of makeup.

921
00:37:54.920 --> 00:38:00.920
And her boyfriend at the time in a priest's outfit are making out drinking beer and smoking cigarettes.

922
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:05.920
Well, my mother, the good Catholic that she was, was so horrified.

923
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:15.920
I mean, absolutely beside herself horrified, that she would not come back to see another film, which was probably just fine.

924
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:17.920
She saw polyester.

925
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:25.920
I tried to get her to see polyester and she wasn't interested, but then John told her to go see polyester and she went, she adored John.

926
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:31.920
She deployed everything we were doing, but she really liked John because he could make her laugh.

927
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:37.920
But she's actually an extra in hairspray.

928
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:43.920
You'd have to know where she was and not blink to see her, but she's an extra, she's in the auto show in hairspray.

929
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:50.920
And she was so thrilled because she was a big fan of Jerry Stiller, who was a delight, by the way.

930
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.920
And just a nicest person you'd ever want to meet.

931
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:58.920
But, you know, he plays Dubai's husband, and Ricky likes father in the movie.

932
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:07.920
And she got to meet him and she, and he was charming to her and told her how much he liked me, which he didn't know me, but was still, you know, very sweet.

933
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:14.920
And so I just think of my mother as, you know, my mother being in hairspray is as big a turning point.

934
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:17.920
And my life as could have happened.

935
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:22.920
And then, of course, after hairspray, she wanted to come to every premiere.

936
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:23.920
And did she?

937
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:24.920
She did, yes.

938
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:31.920
Yeah. And it felt like, did it feel like the gang had finally kind of broken through in many ways into a kind of mainstream acceptance.

939
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:36.920
It did and it didn't because the gang wasn't the gang.

940
00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:39.920
David Lockery was no longer with us.

941
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:40.920
Of course.

942
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:44.920
And Edith was no longer with us.

943
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:48.920
And all the, you know, these new people had come in, Debbie Harry.

944
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:55.920
And, you know, we had all these people that had never been in a job workers movie before had come in.

945
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.920
And it was wonderful to have them, but it was a different crowd.

946
00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.920
It wasn't the old Dreamlander crowd.

947
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:04.920
It was a new Dreamlander crowd.

948
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:08.920
And like I said, some people stayed and some people left.

949
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:12.920
But it was, it felt good.

950
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:14.920
It felt really good.

951
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:17.920
And then, of course, divine died.

952
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:27.920
So it put a enormous damper on all of our celebratory feelings because divine died right after it opened.

953
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:29.920
So, yeah.

954
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:31.920
You know, yay.

955
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:33.920
Oh.

956
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:34.920
Sure.

957
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:36.920
I mean, do you remember where you were when you got the news that divine had passed?

958
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:37.920
Yes.

959
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:39.920
I was living in New York at the time.

960
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.920
And I had been out.

961
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:43.920
I remember I was at like, at home.

962
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:45.920
And there were, this was the age of answering machines.

963
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.920
And there were a million call me messages on my answer machine.

964
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:53.920
And the one from my mother said, I'm so sorry about divine.

965
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:56.920
And that's how I knew.

966
00:40:56.920 --> 00:41:01.920
And it was, it was a gut punch, a real gut punch.

967
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:09.920
So, yeah, that made everybody, I mean, it really just took everybody down a big notch.

968
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.920
I mean, hairspray is still a wonderful movie.

969
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:17.920
And divine is wonderful in it.

970
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:21.920
So as a way to go out, hairspray was brilliant.

971
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:22.920
Absolutely.

972
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:27.920
I mean, divine is someone who has really not only of those performances stood the test of time and those looks,

973
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:32.920
but it's, you know, he's permeated so much of popular culture since then.

974
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:37.920
I mean, when you're basically, when you're, when you're the model for a Disney villain,

975
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.920
Ursula and the little mermaid, I mean, you know, you've made a mark.

976
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:41.920
Yes.

977
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:43.920
It's really too bad divine didn't live to see that.

978
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.920
He would have been thrilled.

979
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:48.920
He really would have been thrilled.

980
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:52.920
He was, divine never thought of himself as a drag queen.

981
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:55.920
Divine was an actor who played women's parts.

982
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:57.920
But he also played men's parts.

983
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:09.920
So, and he was looking to play more men's roles and to be considered more of an actor than just, you know, this freak drag show.

984
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:14.920
And he was a really good actor.

985
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:17.920
So, I mean, who knows where he could have gone.

986
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:18.920
Yeah.

987
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:19.920
It's, yeah.

988
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.920
It's one of those sort of eternal questions, isn't it?

989
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:22.920
Because I want to say, yeah.

990
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:24.920
Are you running in the run-up to hairspray?

991
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:26.920
He was doing a lot more different movies.

992
00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:27.920
Oh.

993
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:28.920
Well, not just movies.

994
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:30.920
He had a music career.

995
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:35.920
He had, he had albums and he was, he had albums out.

996
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.920
He didn't like club work.

997
00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:40.920
You know, he had a whole other career outside of John.

998
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:45.920
So, it was, yeah, it was a big loss.

999
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:53.920
But what divine did was divine change drag in a sense that,

1000
00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.920
up until then, it seemed like most drag.

1001
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:03.920
And I'm not as fully comprehending of all drag history.

1002
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:09.920
But most drag was men trying to look and appear real, like real women.

1003
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:12.920
There's not a whole lot of real about Babs Johnson,

1004
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:17.920
although in Pink flamingos, although divine played a woman

1005
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.920
and looked very feminine.

1006
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:23.920
There were the cockats in San Francisco who were very gender-bendary.

1007
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:25.920
I don't know if you know who they were.

1008
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:26.920
I've heard of that.

1009
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:27.920
Am I right?

1010
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:28.920
You and divine did...

1011
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:29.920
We did shows with them, yes.

1012
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:30.920
Yeah.

1013
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:33.920
Neither of us actually considered ourselves actual cockats.

1014
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:35.920
But we did work with them.

1015
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:36.920
But they were very gender.

1016
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:40.920
I mean, there were men in drag with glitter in their beards.

1017
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.920
So, you know, there was some attempt.

1018
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:48.920
I mean, there were some members of the troop who were very feminine

1019
00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:51.920
and did standard glamour drag.

1020
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:54.920
But divine took the glamour out of it.

1021
00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:59.920
I mean, especially in polyester.

1022
00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:01.920
And then again, in hairspray.

1023
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:03.920
I mean, there's nothing glamorous about a house dress

1024
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:05.920
in your hair and pin curls.

1025
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:10.920
So, it was a different take on drag.

1026
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:12.920
And when it comes to modern drag,

1027
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:14.920
because I hear what you're saying,

1028
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:16.920
and divine has such an impact,

1029
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:17.920
I mean, do you think modern drag...

1030
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:21.920
How much do you think modern drag is sort of taken from divine, if anything?

1031
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:22.920
Well, I don't know.

1032
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:26.920
I think without divine, there may not have been a drag race.

1033
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:28.920
But I don't know that.

1034
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:35.920
I mean, RuPaul, who has the best legs in the entire world,

1035
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:45.920
was doing his own thing at the same time in the 70s in New York.

1036
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.920
So, there's no way of knowing where drag would have gone.

1037
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:53.920
I think what's happened with drag now,

1038
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:55.920
a lot of what's happened with drag now,

1039
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:58.920
is it's more about the clothes and the outfits

1040
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:03.920
and the outrageousness and the expense.

1041
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:05.920
I mean, I look at drag race,

1042
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:07.920
I seldom watch it, but I do watch it occasionally.

1043
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:13.920
And it's like these gowns cost thousands and thousands of dollars.

1044
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.920
And I think early, you know, with the cockats,

1045
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:21.920
it was imagination rather than money.

1046
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:25.920
That they reveled in and used.

1047
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:31.920
So, I'm not sure how I feel about drag today.

1048
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:34.920
I mean, I'm doing a show with my favorite drag queen,

1049
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.920
Peaches Christ, you know, out of worship.

1050
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:44.920
And Peaches has her own take on drag,

1051
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:50.920
which is more clown-like, more outrageous,

1052
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:56.920
but not, no attempt to look real.

1053
00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:58.920
And, you know, I mean, well, that's not true.

1054
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:00.920
That's not completely fair either.

1055
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:03.920
There is an attempt, but it's not the primary focus.

1056
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:05.920
And what is the primary focus?

1057
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:11.920
I think to be outrageous and shocking looking.

1058
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:18.920
Peaches is one of the most intelligent people I know.

1059
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:23.920
She's smart, she's driven, she's ambitious.

1060
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.920
I love working with her more than, I mean, just about anybody.

1061
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:33.920
And there are actually, there are parallels,

1062
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:37.920
if you want to get into this, between Peaches and John Waters.

1063
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:39.920
They're both ambitious.

1064
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:44.920
They both have minds that race forward

1065
00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:49.920
and the bandwidth in their brains to accommodate it.

1066
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:54.920
So, Peaches' right shows, and you know, is a drag performer also,

1067
00:46:54.920 --> 00:47:03.920
and a persario, and has also launched careers of other drag performers.

1068
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:07.920
So, you know, there are many parallels.

1069
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.920
And it's also just one of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet.

1070
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:14.920
Yeah, because when I was researching the show that you guys are doing,

1071
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.920
which, as you say, is other worship, and it's going to be touring the UK.

1072
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.920
And something that Peaches said struck me, which was that,

1073
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:24.920
like, they were talking about modern drag and about how,

1074
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:27.920
with stuff like RuPaul's Drag Race,

1075
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:30.920
it can feel a little pre-packaged, maybe a little bit monetized.

1076
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:33.920
I mean, and do you think heavily monetized?

1077
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:34.920
Yes.

1078
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:36.920
I mean, I think there's now a drag race Ukraine.

1079
00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:37.920
I'm not sure.

1080
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:41.920
I mean, it's a worldwide phenomenon now.

1081
00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:44.920
And almost as if it sounded the way that they were talking about it,

1082
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:47.920
almost as if they wanted to shake drag up a little bit with the show.

1083
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:49.920
Is that one of the intents, do you think?

1084
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:51.920
Of our show, or with drag race?

1085
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.920
With either worship.

1086
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:55.920
I'm not sure that that's one of the intentions.

1087
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:00.920
I think our intention is to entertain our audience, mostly.

1088
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:02.920
I mean, if we shake anything up, that's great.

1089
00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:08.920
But we're not crusading for any changes.

1090
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:11.920
One thing the drag race has done,

1091
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:23.920
it has normalized drag in many ways that it's no longer considered

1092
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:28.920
an aberration in the way that it used to be.

1093
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.920
It's now considered.

1094
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:35.920
It's given credit as an art form, which it is.

1095
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:39.920
So I think, you know, mother's watch drag race.

1096
00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:42.920
And they let their daughter, you know, they let their children watch drag race.

1097
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:48.920
I mean, you go to a drag bar now, and, you know, it will be

1098
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:52.920
bridal parties, you know.

1099
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:55.920
I guess they call them end nights here, you know.

1100
00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:02.920
So I mean, everybody now under C's drag and recognizes,

1101
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:05.920
not everybody likes it, obviously.

1102
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.920
But everybody knows of it.

1103
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:10.920
It's no longer a secret.

1104
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:13.920
Whereas back then, when you guys were doing the movies,

1105
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:17.920
it was much more of an underground phenomenon.

1106
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:18.920
Yeah, yeah.

1107
00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:21.920
And do you think, and how do you feel about the sort of,

1108
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.920
I guess you could call it kind of the mainstreamification,

1109
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:26.920
if you like, of drag, doing it's a good thing?

1110
00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:28.920
I have no problem with it.

1111
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:30.920
I don't really have an opinion about it one more.

1112
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:32.920
Actually, I guess if I do, I'm glad for it.

1113
00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:35.920
I guess if I had to choose a feeling about it, I'd be glad for it.

1114
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:37.920
I want people to be happy.

1115
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.920
And I want people to be happy doing what makes them happy.

1116
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:43.920
And if putting on a dress makes it like I happy,

1117
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:45.920
by all means put on a dress.

1118
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:50.920
You know, I have no judgment whatsoever.

1119
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:57.920
I do think that putting on a dress doesn't necessarily make you fabulous.

1120
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:02.920
I mean, there are better and not so great drag queens.

1121
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:08.920
But if, like I said, if it makes somebody happy to put on a dress

1122
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:12.920
or makes a woman happy to put on a suit, a man's suit,

1123
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.920
I just want people to be happy.

1124
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:17.920
It doesn't hurt anybody.

1125
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:18.920
Absolutely.

1126
00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:20.920
And we've either worshipped the show.

1127
00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:21.920
I mean, what can you tell us about it?

1128
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:23.920
What can people expect from the show?

1129
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:24.920
What's the format?

1130
00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:27.920
Something similar to what we're doing here, actually.

1131
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:31.920
Basically, it's a conversation between me and Peaches.

1132
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:35.920
We cover certain territory because the audience wants to know things.

1133
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:37.920
They expect to hear certain things.

1134
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:39.920
So we discuss certain things.

1135
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:41.920
And we show film clips.

1136
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:43.920
We sing.

1137
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.920
We do a couple of duets together.

1138
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:49.920
We sing separate songs.

1139
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:50.920
And the film clips.

1140
00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:55.920
And we basically invite people into our conversation.

1141
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:58.920
They don't get to talk.

1142
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:02.920
We say we're inviting people into our living room.

1143
00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:05.920
To overhear our conversation.

1144
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:07.920
We don't script it.

1145
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:12.920
So every show is going to be somewhat different.

1146
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:15.920
We're covering basic points.

1147
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:20.920
But every now and then I remember something I hadn't said before.

1148
00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:26.920
And so there'll be another interesting nugget that kind of just pops out of my mouth.

1149
00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:29.920
And it's very casual.

1150
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:30.920
It's very easy.

1151
00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:32.920
We're very relaxed on stage.

1152
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:35.920
We never wanted to memorize it.

1153
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:36.920
Many reasons.

1154
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.920
The first reason is that it gets stale.

1155
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:43.920
The second reason is if you're memorizing something and you forget your place,

1156
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:45.920
it can panic you.

1157
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.920
And nothing is less interesting than watching somebody panic on stage

1158
00:51:48.920 --> 00:51:50.920
because they've forgotten their lines.

1159
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:56.920
I've been in place and forgot my lines and it's really not comfortable.

1160
00:51:56.920 --> 00:52:00.920
But when you're on stage with someone as seasoned as peaches,

1161
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:03.920
if one of us kind of can't come up with something really fabulous,

1162
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:06.920
the other one picks up the slack and moves it forward.

1163
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:08.920
So we're good.

1164
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:17.920
But it's really just a celebration of the fact that peaches and I have been friends for 25 years.

1165
00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:22.920
The show started originally as a celebration of me,

1166
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:28.920
as an idol worship, as me being the idol and peaches being the worshiper.

1167
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:29.920
I was the worshipy.

1168
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:33.920
And that was nice, but it was slightly uncomfortable.

1169
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:36.920
It's, you know, you can sit on the pedestal for just so long.

1170
00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:39.920
It was like, okay, I'm done.

1171
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:42.920
And then when we decided to do it again,

1172
00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:47.920
we were actually supposed to bring it here in 2020.

1173
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:49.920
But COVID stopped us.

1174
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.920
We were scheduled.

1175
00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:51.920
We had a booking.

1176
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.920
And COVID stopped us.

1177
00:52:54.920 --> 00:52:57.920
And so when we just, and we didn't do it for a while.

1178
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:01.920
So when we decided again to do it a couple of years ago,

1179
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:02.920
it's great.

1180
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:04.920
I'd love to do it, but let's change it.

1181
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.920
Instead of making it all about me, let's make it about us.

1182
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:10.920
And the fact that we have worked together,

1183
00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:14.920
because I idolize peaches just as much as he idolizes me.

1184
00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:17.920
I have so much respect for that person.

1185
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:22.920
And the creativity that goes into being peaches Christ,

1186
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:26.920
and how hard peaches works.

1187
00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:31.920
So we, it added depth to the show that it had not had before.

1188
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:35.920
So now it's a celebration of us and our friendship and our work

1189
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:37.920
that we've done together.

1190
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.920
While completely acknowledging all the John Water stuff.

1191
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:41.920
Sure.

1192
00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:43.920
So, I mean, that's how we met.

1193
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.920
Because he was a fan.

1194
00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:45.920
He was a fan.

1195
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:46.920
Yes.

1196
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:47.920
Yeah.

1197
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:49.920
Because they were a filmmaker as well, all about evil.

1198
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:50.920
All about evil.

1199
00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:51.920
They directed.

1200
00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:53.920
Is it, is it, he was it?

1201
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:54.920
Sorry.

1202
00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:58.920
Well, I never used they for peaches.

1203
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.920
Joshua is his out of track name.

1204
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:06.920
And so when he, when he is Joshua, I say he, when she is peaches,

1205
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:11.920
I say she, I get them mixed up sometimes.

1206
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:15.920
But it's, yeah, I would say, but I never used the word day.

1207
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:17.920
And neither does Joshua.

1208
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:20.920
At least to my knowledge.

1209
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:23.920
And I think that he considered, I don't want to speak for him.

1210
00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:28.920
But I think that he considers himself a man who wears, who does drag.

1211
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:29.920
Right.

1212
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.920
As opposed to a non-binary.

1213
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:35.920
But if I'm speaking out of turn, Joshua peaches, I'm really sorry.

1214
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:36.920
I don't mean to.

1215
00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:41.920
It's, it's such a sensitive topic these days.

1216
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:43.920
And I'm 78.

1217
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:49.920
And so it's really hard for me sometimes to keep everything in focus.

1218
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:53.920
I want the world to know that I never, ever, ever mean harm.

1219
00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:57.920
If I make a pronoun mistake, it is a pronoun mistake.

1220
00:54:57.920 --> 00:54:59.920
It is not a feeling mistake.

1221
00:54:59.920 --> 00:55:00.920
Absolutely.

1222
00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:02.920
For an intention mistake.

1223
00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:04.920
And with the show then, because you're taking it around the UK.

1224
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:06.920
And as we said at the start, this is your first time in,

1225
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:08.920
or second time in London in a long time.

1226
00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:11.920
And then you're going around the UK. Are you excited for that?

1227
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:13.920
I am thrilled.

1228
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:14.920
I am absolutely thrilled.

1229
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:15.920
We're going to Manchester.

1230
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:17.920
We're going to Newcastle.

1231
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:20.920
We're going to Edinburgh. We're going to Dublin.

1232
00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:22.920
And we're going to Amsterdam.

1233
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:23.920
Now I have been to Amsterdam.

1234
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:25.920
But I've never been to any of those other places.

1235
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:27.920
So I just am.

1236
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:29.920
I want to take everything.

1237
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:32.920
And unfortunately, because I am so old, I do need to rest.

1238
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:36.920
So I don't get to sightseeing quite as much as I'd like to.

1239
00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:40.920
Which is why we came to London a few days ahead of time.

1240
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:44.920
So I could actually enjoy the city.

1241
00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:47.920
And I've been just inhaling it.

1242
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.920
And you're doing the show at the BFI.

1243
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:51.920
Am I right?

1244
00:55:51.920 --> 00:55:52.920
Yes, we are.

1245
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:53.920
Yeah. And how does that feel?

1246
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:54.920
I mean, the BFI is an institution.

1247
00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:58.920
I mean, to be able to be accepted and embraced so much for the work you've done.

1248
00:55:58.920 --> 00:55:59.920
It's astonishing.

1249
00:55:59.920 --> 00:56:01.920
It feels wonderful.

1250
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:04.920
I'm humbled and thrilled at the same time.

1251
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:11.920
And there are also where we're part of a trash film series that they're doing.

1252
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.920
And I don't know the details of all of the whole series.

1253
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:21.920
But apparently our show and a new print of plan nine from outer space

1254
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:26.920
are the centerpieces of the film festival.

1255
00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:27.920
Fantastic.

1256
00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:28.920
I mean, two iconic.

1257
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:29.920
Iconic.

1258
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:30.920
Yes.

1259
00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:31.920
Absolutely icons.

1260
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:34.920
And I want to say a lot of the, you know, the John Waters movies we've been playing as well.

1261
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:35.920
It's out.

1262
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:36.920
I have a look at the program.

1263
00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:37.920
It looks fantastic.

1264
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:42.920
It's sort of the right, the plethora of stuff that's serving up for people.

1265
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:43.920
Well, I'm thrilled.

1266
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:51.920
I mean, the idea that people still care about things that we did a million years ago is breathtaking to me.

1267
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:55.920
And also the people who weren't even alive.

1268
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:56.920
You.

1269
00:56:56.920 --> 00:56:58.920
When we made the films.

1270
00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:01.920
It's, you know, that you care about them.

1271
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:03.920
It's, it's really something.

1272
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:04.920
It is.

1273
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:08.920
And not only the John Waters films, but that actually, you know, that leads me quite nicely into some of the,

1274
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:10.920
a couple of the other films you've made.

1275
00:57:10.920 --> 00:57:13.920
Like, but I'm a cheerleader, which is another great film.

1276
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:16.920
That again is another film that's had like an amazing afterlife.

1277
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:17.920
It, yeah, it didn't do so well.

1278
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:21.920
I think when it first opened, but it has achieved a certain cult status.

1279
00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:23.920
Well, look at the cast.

1280
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:27.920
It's Natasha Leon, obviously a bud court.

1281
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:29.920
I know the late great.

1282
00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:31.920
We're very sorry about that.

1283
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:36.920
The RuPaul as a boy.

1284
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:40.920
Michelle Williams is in it.

1285
00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:42.920
Melanie Linsky is in it.

1286
00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:45.920
You know, I mean, it's just, oh, Kathy Moriarty's in it.

1287
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:48.920
I mean, it's, it's got an amazing cast.

1288
00:57:48.920 --> 00:57:51.920
So, and it's a fun movie.

1289
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:55.920
You know, it takes a serious subject and makes fun of it.

1290
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.920
And I think that's a great way to do things.

1291
00:57:59.920 --> 00:58:03.920
You know, you take, you take the work seriously, but yourself not so much.

1292
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:06.920
Yeah, which is very much like what you and John were doing.

1293
00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:07.920
Very much.

1294
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:11.920
And that movie seems to have quite a few similarities to the stuff you and John were doing.

1295
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:13.920
There may have been an influence who knows.

1296
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:17.920
You know, it's really hard for me because people are always telling me,

1297
00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:24.920
oh, John would love this or this is just like John and I don't know that that's always true.

1298
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:28.920
But the, you know, to me, it gets set a great deal.

1299
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:31.920
And do you remember what were your memories like making that film?

1300
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:34.920
Working with that amazing cast and that, you know, it makes sense.

1301
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:39.920
Well, we were working, we were on location in a really remote part of California

1302
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:42.920
that was very dry and dusty and very hot.

1303
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.920
And so the working conditions were a little rough.

1304
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:48.920
But it was great.

1305
00:58:48.920 --> 00:58:51.920
I mean, I, you know, I loved working with Bud.

1306
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:56.920
You know, I mean, that was, actually, it's funny because my sister who used to be,

1307
00:58:56.920 --> 00:58:59.920
my sister Betsy Phillips, who was an actress many, many years ago,

1308
00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:03.920
she stopped acting, did a play with Bud many, many years ago.

1309
00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:08.920
So he was kind of, you know, it was a family event.

1310
00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:12.920
But I always admired him and it was really fun to work with him.

1311
00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:18.920
So, and of course, Rue, you know, was hilarious.

1312
00:59:18.920 --> 00:59:21.920
Yeah, because you play La Tasha Leon's sort of mum in the,

1313
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:22.920
I do.

1314
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:24.920
You sort of send her off to the treatment camp.

1315
00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:27.920
Well, I called the Make It Straight camp, yes.

1316
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:30.920
And that move, as I say, that that movie's had such an amazing afterlife

1317
00:59:30.920 --> 00:59:33.920
and it seems more popular today than it was at the time.

1318
00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:34.920
I think it is.

1319
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:36.920
Yeah, why do you think that is?

1320
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:37.920
I don't know.

1321
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:39.920
Well, okay, maybe I do know.

1322
00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:42.920
Right now, especially in the States, I don't know what it's,

1323
00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:45.920
I do not know what the climate is here.

1324
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:52.920
But there is so much animosity in the States now

1325
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.920
for trans people in particular.

1326
00:59:55.920 --> 01:00:02.920
And I think it's, you know, while drag seems to have been normalized,

1327
01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:05.920
not all gainess has been.

1328
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:12.920
So, there's, I think it's a way for people to look

1329
01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:17.920
and be able to laugh at a situation that really isn't funny

1330
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:19.920
in the actual world.

1331
01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:23.920
It is very, I mean, over here, I think it's a similar situation.

1332
01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:24.920
Is it?

1333
01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:26.920
Yeah, I think there's a lot of conversation happening about it

1334
01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:28.920
and people are trying to define it.

1335
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:31.920
And, and, you know, I think, yeah, it's like we were saying earlier,

1336
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:32.920
it's a sensitive.

1337
01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:33.920
It's a sensitive subject.

1338
01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:35.920
And it's relatively indefinable because it's,

1339
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:37.920
there are so many permutations.

1340
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:39.920
There are permutations of straight.

1341
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:41.920
There are permutations of gay.

1342
01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:45.920
There are permutations of every, you know, I mean, it's like,

1343
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:48.920
I might be straight, but I might only like blondes.

1344
01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:50.920
I might be straight, but I'm only like, you know,

1345
01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:51.920
people with big feet.

1346
01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:53.920
You never know.

1347
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:59.920
I mean, there's the variety of appetite and the variety

1348
01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:04.920
of inclination is as vast as the variety of humanity itself.

1349
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:09.920
So, putting these labels and making these strict definitions

1350
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:12.920
is really deleterious.

1351
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:13.920
That's a good word.

1352
01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:14.920
That's a great word.

1353
01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:16.920
I've never heard that one before.

1354
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:18.920
It's really bad.

1355
01:01:18.920 --> 01:01:19.920
It's really bad.

1356
01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:20.920
Yeah.

1357
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.920
And it seems like people are sort of, for me,

1358
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:26.920
they feel like they're almost casting themselves on the wrong side of history

1359
01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:29.920
by being against it and by being militant about,

1360
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:30.920
but, you know, against it.

1361
01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:31.920
And that for me just seems.

1362
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:32.920
Absolutely.

1363
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:34.920
It's lacking just in common humanity.

1364
01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:35.920
Well, certainly.

1365
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:37.920
It's lacking in any kind of kindness.

1366
01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:40.920
You know, well, I mean, the world lacks a great,

1367
01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:45.920
lacks kindness to a great degree these days, just in general.

1368
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:46.920
Yeah.

1369
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:47.920
I mean, I don't know.

1370
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:50.920
Everybody here that I have met so far has been lovely.

1371
01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:55.920
But in the states, kindness isn't, it's not invisible.

1372
01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:58.920
There are many, many lovely kind people who live in the states.

1373
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:01.920
But we are run by an unkind government these days.

1374
01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:05.920
So, it's, which has permitted, you know,

1375
01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:11.920
has given license for unkindness to exist in a greater degree than it did.

1376
01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:13.920
Then we were aware of before.

1377
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:14.920
Yeah.

1378
01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:16.920
And is that kind of unkindness?

1379
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:18.920
Is that what, so that's more visible?

1380
01:02:18.920 --> 01:02:19.920
Definitely more.

1381
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:21.920
Well, be as you live over in the states.

1382
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:22.920
Do you see that a lot more?

1383
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:23.920
Yes.

1384
01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:24.920
Out on the streets.

1385
01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:25.920
Yes.

1386
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:28.920
Well, it's not like people are out on the streets kicking and punching each other.

1387
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:31.920
But just this general attitude of,

1388
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:34.920
I'm being honest if I tell you you're a jerk.

1389
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:38.920
Or I'm being honest if I think that you don't get to, you know,

1390
01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:40.920
you shouldn't be allowed to live here.

1391
01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:42.920
I'm just being honest.

1392
01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:51.920
You know, just being honest is sometimes honesty is something that should be kept to oneself.

1393
01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:53.920
I remember John said, John Waters said,

1394
01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:58.920
when one of his sort of goals of making those movies was comic terrorism called,

1395
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:00.920
you know, make it attack your enemy with humor.

1396
01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:01.920
With humor.

1397
01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:02.920
Yeah, exactly.

1398
01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:06.920
Do you think that's something that we maybe need more of in the state against?

1399
01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:07.920
Well, I think it's done.

1400
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:16.920
I think that's part of the reason why our movies, you know, work still because they are funny.

1401
01:03:16.920 --> 01:03:21.920
And why a movie like, but I'm a cheerleader still works because it's actually funny.

1402
01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:25.920
And you know, it is attacking a serious subject.

1403
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:27.920
It's attacking the enemy with humor.

1404
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:28.920
Yeah.

1405
01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:30.920
And giving that spare and more.

1406
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:33.920
It makes more of a mark than just straight forward.

1407
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:37.920
Well, I, if it doesn't make a mark on the people that it's actually attacking,

1408
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:41.920
what it does is it lifts the spirits of those who are doing the attack.

1409
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:45.920
I mean, it lifts the spirits of those who are rebelling against.

1410
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:49.920
And you know, humor lifts us up, you know, laughter heals.

1411
01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:54.920
So when we can laugh together, when we can get together as a group of people and laugh together,

1412
01:03:54.920 --> 01:03:58.920
it's, it has a very beneficial effect.

1413
01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:05.920
I also think it makes you feel a bit more sane because so much of what seems like it's going on in the world is does not feel sane to me.

1414
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:09.920
But be able to laugh about it makes helps me feel ground, ground for me.

1415
01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:12.920
Anyway, personally, grounds me and makes me feel a bit more sane about what's going on.

1416
01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:13.920
Yes.

1417
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:16.920
And I think it also helps you feel part of the community.

1418
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:18.920
And that's very important.

1419
01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:23.920
Oh, wait, before I forget a movie that I must ask you about, which you had a small,

1420
01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:28.920
another sort of 90s kind of jam, which you had a role in is lost highway.

1421
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:30.920
Oh, yes.

1422
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:32.920
I'm actually only voice in it.

1423
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:34.920
Yes, but I'm already thinking you were.

1424
01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:35.920
I was.

1425
01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:36.920
I did shoot the scene.

1426
01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:37.920
Yes.

1427
01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:38.920
How do I come about?

1428
01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:43.920
Well, they called not gave, you know, they asked me to do it.

1429
01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:45.920
David Lynch himself did not call me.

1430
01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:48.920
He was so nice.

1431
01:04:48.920 --> 01:04:50.920
I only met him that one day on the set.

1432
01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:51.920
I never saw him before.

1433
01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:52.920
I never saw him.

1434
01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:53.920
Oh, I did see him after once.

1435
01:04:53.920 --> 01:05:01.920
But the nicest thing that he did for me was before I got invited to the cast screening.

1436
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:09.920
And before the cast screening, he sent me a letter telling me that the visual had been cut.

1437
01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:13.920
So I wasn't going to see myself on the screen.

1438
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:22.920
And I thought that was so kind that I didn't just go to the screening and go.

1439
01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:25.920
So I don't even know if I still have the letter.

1440
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:31.920
I wish I hope somewhere I do, but I may not, but that would have been something to keep because it was just such an act.

1441
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:32.920
It was an act of kindness.

1442
01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:39.920
It was a real act of generosity not to let me be publicly disappointed.

1443
01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:41.920
So I really like him.

1444
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:45.920
I mean, I've always admired his work, but I really liked him for that.

1445
01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:54.920
That just made me really, you know, I get all I hear about David Lynch from his collaborators is, you know, especially a lot of the actresses he worked with

1446
01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:57.920
was just how sweet he was and how warm he was.

1447
01:05:57.920 --> 01:05:58.920
He really was.

1448
01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:00.920
He was just charming.

1449
01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:07.920
Because what's so, for me, fascinating about that as a film fan, is that like, because John Waters and the work he has together is so, you know,

1450
01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:08.920
it's true and outsider.

1451
01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:15.920
And as is, you know, hit David's, David Lynch is, you know, and there's like, I think there's a photo of John Waters and David Lynch meeting and shaking hands in front of Bob's big boy.

1452
01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:21.920
So the fact that you, so the fact that you're in there in as part of his kind of move for me just makes perfect sense.

1453
01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:22.920
Yes.

1454
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:24.920
And I go to Bob's big way.

1455
01:06:24.920 --> 01:06:26.920
Is that your favorite fast food?

1456
01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:28.920
Is it still around in America?

1457
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:31.920
It's still there. That particular one is still there. Yes.

1458
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:32.920
Is that your local?

1459
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:34.920
No, it's not even close to where I live.

1460
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:37.920
But if I'm in that neighborhood, I will go there.

1461
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:40.920
Because he used to spend like days and weeks in there, right?

1462
01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:43.920
That was his office, so I want to say David, just making notes.

1463
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:46.920
Yeah, but it's miles from where I live.

1464
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:49.920
You know, miles in LA means hours.

1465
01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:59.920
Although I must say, coming to the, coming to, to where I am, where I'm staying, from the airport, I was shocked and up at the traffic quest here.

1466
01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:01.920
It reminded me of home.

1467
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:05.920
Well, LA has like the worst traffic ever, right?

1468
01:07:05.920 --> 01:07:07.920
Very bad. Very, very bad.

1469
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:09.920
It's all the freeways, right? They just get congested.

1470
01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:11.920
I stay off them as much as possible.

1471
01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:13.920
I mean, I've never been, so I have no idea.

1472
01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:14.920
What's wrong?

1473
01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:17.920
I hear some mixed reports about LA.

1474
01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:22.920
Some people say it's lovely, and some people say it's like, I can't, you know, I can't, maybe there's Hollywood and LA.

1475
01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:28.920
Well, Hollywood is part of LA, so it's, you know, I mean, and it depends on why you're there.

1476
01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:33.920
You know, if you're coming to break into the movies, it can be a really rough place.

1477
01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:38.920
And I lived there for 18 years and spent a lot of that time very lonely.

1478
01:07:38.920 --> 01:07:45.920
And then I left and went, moved back to Baltimore, and I was there for 14 years.

1479
01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:49.920
And then I fell in love with my husband, who lives in LA.

1480
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:51.920
Oh, well, I fell in love with Tom.

1481
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:57.920
And moved back to LA and stayed.

1482
01:07:57.920 --> 01:07:59.920
And it's very different now.

1483
01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:00.920
Is it?

1484
01:08:00.920 --> 01:08:03.920
Well, I no longer look for work.

1485
01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:05.920
You know, I have retired.

1486
01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:09.920
I still work, but I've retired from looking for work.

1487
01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:11.920
And it's a great release.

1488
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:15.920
It's a wonderful burden off your shoulders when you do that.

1489
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:20.920
And I am happily married, and I'm, you know, I like my life.

1490
01:08:20.920 --> 01:08:21.920
Wonderful.

1491
01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:24.920
Well, I did, I was going to ask about, because after the tour,

1492
01:08:24.920 --> 01:08:29.920
either worship wraps up, I want to say I heard you say on the radio that after the tour is done,

1493
01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:31.920
that's the, that's it for terms of touring.

1494
01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:33.920
It's the end of my touring.

1495
01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:37.920
These multi-city tours are just hard on me physically.

1496
01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:42.920
And I don't want to stop working completely.

1497
01:08:42.920 --> 01:08:44.920
I don't want to ever do that.

1498
01:08:44.920 --> 01:08:48.920
I hope that, you know, I die on a stage someplace.

1499
01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:53.920
But I don't want to tour anymore.

1500
01:08:53.920 --> 01:08:56.920
You know, that doesn't mean I won't get on a plane and go someplace,

1501
01:08:56.920 --> 01:08:58.920
but not six cities in a row again.

1502
01:08:58.920 --> 01:08:59.920
Sure.

1503
01:08:59.920 --> 01:09:00.920
Sure.

1504
01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:01.920
Yeah.

1505
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:03.920
You're not quite opting for like a quite domestic life.

1506
01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:06.920
No, although I like my quiet domestic life,

1507
01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:11.920
but I do like the little pop of color and interests that happens periodically too.

1508
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:13.920
And what would that, I mean, John, like, you know,

1509
01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:17.920
because there's been talk for a long time now about him making another movie.

1510
01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:18.920
I mean, would you?

1511
01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:22.920
I would certainly do it, but I mean, he would have to ask me to do it.

1512
01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:28.920
And I would be mortified and horrified if he didn't.

1513
01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.920
But I don't know that he ever will.

1514
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:33.920
He's an incredibly busy man.

1515
01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:37.920
You know, he's honest, he's on his own speaking tour constantly.

1516
01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:39.920
And he writes books.

1517
01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:42.920
I mean, he's, he is not slowed down.

1518
01:09:42.920 --> 01:09:44.920
Now, he doesn't mind tour it.

1519
01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:47.920
He seems to like it.

1520
01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:49.920
You know, I mean, he's on the road constantly,

1521
01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:52.920
but I, you know, John and I are very different.

1522
01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:54.920
I mean, are you guys still in touch?

1523
01:09:54.920 --> 01:09:55.920
Are you still with friends?

1524
01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:56.920
Oh, yeah.

1525
01:09:56.920 --> 01:09:57.920
You know, do you ever hang out?

1526
01:09:57.920 --> 01:09:58.920
Or is it not that kind of?

1527
01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:00.920
Well, we live in different places.

1528
01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:02.920
But yes, I see him a couple of times.

1529
01:10:02.920 --> 01:10:05.920
Basically, I see him a couple of times a year.

1530
01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:07.920
He comes to L.A.

1531
01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:11.920
And, you know, we'll have dinner.

1532
01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:14.920
But it's, I, you know, when I lived in Baltimore,

1533
01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:16.920
I would see him more frequently.

1534
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:18.920
Because he still lives in Baltimore, right?

1535
01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:20.920
Well, he lives several places.

1536
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:22.920
He has a house in Baltimore, he has a,

1537
01:10:22.920 --> 01:10:26.920
he has homes in Baltimore province town San Francisco in New York.

1538
01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:28.920
So, you know, he spreads himself,

1539
01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:30.920
and he's on the road all the time.

1540
01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:31.920
Of course, of course.

1541
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:32.920
I mean, he came here, actually.

1542
01:10:32.920 --> 01:10:34.920
I saw him at the barbecue when he came here a few years ago.

1543
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:37.920
And it was just mainly in the audience,

1544
01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:40.920
just drag queens and middle-aged women.

1545
01:10:40.920 --> 01:10:43.920
And it, and then me.

1546
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:45.920
I was kind of in the middle of this road.

1547
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:46.920
I was loving it.

1548
01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:47.920
It was great.

1549
01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:48.920
Oh, it was.

1550
01:10:48.920 --> 01:10:50.920
And it's funny, because I think pink flamingos

1551
01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:51.920
had just come out on Criterion.

1552
01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:52.920
Yes.

1553
01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:53.920
They just done the remaster.

1554
01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:54.920
So, he was talking about that.

1555
01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:56.920
And when he went to the Criterion,

1556
01:10:56.920 --> 01:10:58.920
because he obviously, Criterion,

1557
01:10:58.920 --> 01:11:00.920
have long been a big supporter of the films,

1558
01:11:00.920 --> 01:11:01.920
and he loves them.

1559
01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:04.920
And he's, he is showing my film nerd in this here.

1560
01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:05.920
But he said,

1561
01:11:05.920 --> 01:11:07.920
pink flamingos just being announced on Criterion.

1562
01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:08.920
And then me and maybe like,

1563
01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:10.920
because every other thing he would say

1564
01:11:10.920 --> 01:11:11.920
would get a big cheer,

1565
01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:13.920
because everyone obviously loves him.

1566
01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:14.920
And then he said that.

1567
01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:15.920
And then like me,

1568
01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:16.920
and maybe five of the people in this massive barbecue

1569
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:17.920
in order to...

1570
01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:19.920
And I felt very seen.

1571
01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:20.920
Yes.

1572
01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:22.920
But yeah.

1573
01:11:22.920 --> 01:11:23.920
It's astonishing.

1574
01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:25.920
He seems to have so much energy still.

1575
01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:26.920
I don't have that.

1576
01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:28.920
He really does.

1577
01:11:28.920 --> 01:11:29.920
He's the Energizer Bunny.

1578
01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:31.920
Do you have the Energizer Bunny here?

1579
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:32.920
Is that the duress of Paris?

1580
01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:34.920
That was the little pink bunny

1581
01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:36.920
that kept going and going and going and going and going.

1582
01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:37.920
And he just can't stop.

1583
01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:39.920
And he's going to be 80 in a couple of days.

1584
01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:40.920
Yeah.

1585
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:41.920
Well, you guys are about the same age, right?

1586
01:11:41.920 --> 01:11:42.920
He's a year older.

1587
01:11:42.920 --> 01:11:43.920
A year and change.

1588
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:44.920
Older than I am.

1589
01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:45.920
So, yeah.

1590
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:47.920
I'll be 80 next year.

1591
01:11:47.920 --> 01:11:48.920
Wow.

1592
01:11:48.920 --> 01:11:49.920
I thought I'd say he don't...

1593
01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:50.920
You don't have a bucket.

1594
01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:51.920
Thank you.

1595
01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:52.920
That's very sweet.

1596
01:11:52.920 --> 01:11:54.920
Most times I don't feel it either.

1597
01:11:54.920 --> 01:11:57.920
But I will, after I've been traveling a long time.

1598
01:11:57.920 --> 01:12:00.920
Well, we were saying before we started rolling about how,

1599
01:12:00.920 --> 01:12:01.920
like,

1600
01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:04.920
I'm feeling frozen at a certain age.

1601
01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:06.920
Like, you know, I can't feel,

1602
01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:08.920
but I feel like I'm probably like 22, 21.

1603
01:12:08.920 --> 01:12:11.920
And what were you saying something similar, right?

1604
01:12:11.920 --> 01:12:14.920
Well, when I think of what I look like before I look in the mirror,

1605
01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:16.920
I think of myself at about 40.

1606
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:18.920
I think that's what I look like.

1607
01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:21.920
And then I look in the mirror and I see my mother at her.

1608
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:24.920
And everything goes out the window.

1609
01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:27.920
It's like, oh, no, that's what you look like.

1610
01:12:27.920 --> 01:12:29.920
It's a little bit different.

1611
01:12:29.920 --> 01:12:32.920
So I avoid mirrors.

1612
01:12:32.920 --> 01:12:37.920
I think that's one of the secrets to being happy in your later years.

1613
01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:39.920
Don't look at any mirrors in the house.

1614
01:12:39.920 --> 01:12:40.920
Don't look, yeah.

1615
01:12:40.920 --> 01:12:42.920
I mean, do you have any kind of, I guess,

1616
01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:44.920
I don't know for the vices,

1617
01:12:44.920 --> 01:12:47.920
but like, like, in terms of like growing into, you know,

1618
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:49.920
your 70s or 60s, I mean,

1619
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:50.920
do you have any kind of,

1620
01:12:50.920 --> 01:12:54.920
like, thoughts or things that have helped you along

1621
01:12:54.920 --> 01:12:56.920
in that sort of pit process that...

1622
01:12:56.920 --> 01:12:57.920
I don't know.

1623
01:12:57.920 --> 01:13:00.920
I mean, I've accepted the fact that I've gotten older,

1624
01:13:00.920 --> 01:13:02.920
because you have to.

1625
01:13:02.920 --> 01:13:05.920
I mean, I'd rather get older than not.

1626
01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:07.920
I don't want plastic surgery.

1627
01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:09.920
I have a shoot all of that.

1628
01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:12.920
I feel like I've earned every wrinkle in my face.

1629
01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:14.920
And I like my face the way it is.

1630
01:13:14.920 --> 01:13:16.920
I wouldn't mind losing a little of this,

1631
01:13:16.920 --> 01:13:18.920
but you know, that's another story.

1632
01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:21.920
But I'm terrified to do anything to change it.

1633
01:13:21.920 --> 01:13:22.920
I'm just scared.

1634
01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:26.920
I would be terrified of waking up and not recognizing myself.

1635
01:13:27.920 --> 01:13:30.920
I think, for me,

1636
01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:33.920
I started taking piano lessons five years ago.

1637
01:13:33.920 --> 01:13:35.920
Starting from zero.

1638
01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:37.920
Starting from knowing where middle C was.

1639
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:39.920
And that's been wonderful,

1640
01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:40.920
because when you learn,

1641
01:13:40.920 --> 01:13:43.920
and I'm not naturally gifted,

1642
01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:45.920
you know, so I really have to work at it.

1643
01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:47.920
But it has expanded my brain.

1644
01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:51.920
I can feel the synapses connecting in a way

1645
01:13:51.920 --> 01:13:53.920
that they didn't use to do that.

1646
01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:57.920
So I think as you grow older,

1647
01:13:57.920 --> 01:14:01.920
keep changing and keep looking for things

1648
01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:04.920
to engage your brain and engage your body

1649
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:06.920
so that you can...

1650
01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:09.920
My husband says that he says

1651
01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:12.920
that the secret is to find something that you love

1652
01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:14.920
that you can get better at.

1653
01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:16.920
And piano with that.

1654
01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:18.920
Oh, I'm much better than I was five years ago.

1655
01:14:18.920 --> 01:14:20.920
I could not sit down and play something for you,

1656
01:14:20.920 --> 01:14:25.920
but I can play my exercises better than I used to be able to.

1657
01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:27.920
And I've just taken a watercolor

1658
01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:29.920
and I'm really bad at that,

1659
01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:31.920
but I really, really like it.

1660
01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:34.920
And people seem to think that

1661
01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:36.920
if they're not instantly good at something,

1662
01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:38.920
they should drop it.

1663
01:14:38.920 --> 01:14:40.920
And that's the most ridiculous thing,

1664
01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:43.920
because unless your Mozart,

1665
01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:45.920
you're not instantly good at things.

1666
01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:46.920
It does take time.

1667
01:14:46.920 --> 01:14:47.920
It takes practice.

1668
01:14:47.920 --> 01:14:48.920
It takes energy.

1669
01:14:48.920 --> 01:14:49.920
It takes commitment.

1670
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:51.920
And having those things

1671
01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:53.920
keeps me engaged.

1672
01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:56.920
It keeps me engaged with my brain engaged,

1673
01:14:56.920 --> 01:14:57.920
my body engaged,

1674
01:14:57.920 --> 01:15:02.920
and my enthusiasm's engaged.

1675
01:15:02.920 --> 01:15:04.920
It keeps you, I guess,

1676
01:15:04.920 --> 01:15:06.920
there's always vitality that comes with passions.

1677
01:15:06.920 --> 01:15:08.920
Yeah, that's exactly.

1678
01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:09.920
It keeps you...

1679
01:15:09.920 --> 01:15:12.920
I mean, there are days when I don't want to practice.

1680
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:13.920
Believe me.

1681
01:15:13.920 --> 01:15:15.920
And there are days when I don't want to practice

1682
01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:17.920
and I don't practice.

1683
01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:21.920
But then I take a gummy and I go back.

1684
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:23.920
I also recommend gummies,

1685
01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:25.920
but if you can't say that,

1686
01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:27.920
I don't know if they're legal here.

1687
01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:28.920
The vitamin gummies?

1688
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:30.920
No, marijuana gummies.

1689
01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:34.920
Tell me more.

1690
01:15:34.920 --> 01:15:37.920
I take them frequently.

1691
01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:38.920
I don't have any with me.

1692
01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:40.920
I don't have any.

1693
01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:42.920
I don't know what the status is here

1694
01:15:42.920 --> 01:15:43.920
about marijuana.

1695
01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:44.920
Is it legal?

1696
01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:46.920
I think there is some...

1697
01:15:46.920 --> 01:15:47.920
The rules of check.

1698
01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:48.920
No.

1699
01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:49.920
Apparently not.

1700
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:51.920
Forget I said that.

1701
01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:53.920
It's legal in LA.

1702
01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:56.920
Well, it goes back to the LSD days of the 60s.

1703
01:15:56.920 --> 01:15:58.920
Yes, it does.

1704
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:00.920
But that is growing.

1705
01:16:00.920 --> 01:16:01.920
I think a little bit.

1706
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:02.920
I'm not a stoner.

1707
01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:03.920
I don't sit around.

1708
01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:05.920
You know, it actually...

1709
01:16:05.920 --> 01:16:08.920
It opens my mind and it gives me energy and focus.

1710
01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:11.920
For me, it's very useful.

1711
01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:13.920
Because you mentioned the music.

1712
01:16:13.920 --> 01:16:15.920
I know that because back in 2015,

1713
01:16:15.920 --> 01:16:18.920
you've been developing your music over the last 20 years.

1714
01:16:18.920 --> 01:16:20.920
Well, I started singing.

1715
01:16:20.920 --> 01:16:22.920
And I was very lucky.

1716
01:16:22.920 --> 01:16:26.920
I had a friend named Brian Grillo in Los Angeles,

1717
01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:29.920
who asked me one afternoon if I would sing a song that he had written

1718
01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:33.920
at this gay club on a Sunday afternoon.

1719
01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:34.920
And I said, yes.

1720
01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:35.920
And I enjoyed it.

1721
01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:36.920
It was really fun.

1722
01:16:36.920 --> 01:16:39.920
And then he introduced me to some musicians.

1723
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:43.920
And I ended up, you know, we formed a band.

1724
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:45.920
And I...

1725
01:16:45.920 --> 01:16:48.920
I mean, obviously I changed out some of the musicians.

1726
01:16:48.920 --> 01:16:49.920
But it was...

1727
01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:51.920
I discovered that I really liked it.

1728
01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:52.920
It was really fun.

1729
01:16:52.920 --> 01:16:54.920
And then when I moved back to Baltimore,

1730
01:16:54.920 --> 01:16:57.920
I put together a lovely band.

1731
01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:00.920
And we put out an album.

1732
01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:02.920
I put out a CD.

1733
01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:05.920
And it was not a huge hit.

1734
01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:07.920
But I'm still very proud of it.

1735
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:12.920
And, you know, we performed.

1736
01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:15.920
I don't have a band now.

1737
01:17:15.920 --> 01:17:17.920
And that's okay.

1738
01:17:17.920 --> 01:17:19.920
I still love to sing.

1739
01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:21.920
But I don't...

1740
01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:23.920
You know, I don't have a band.

1741
01:17:23.920 --> 01:17:24.920
But I do...

1742
01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:25.920
Yeah.

1743
01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:26.920
We sing in the show.

1744
01:17:26.920 --> 01:17:27.920
It's just a nice thing.

1745
01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:28.920
Yeah, do duets.

1746
01:17:28.920 --> 01:17:31.920
Are you as passionate about the music as you are about your acting?

1747
01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:33.920
Well, I like the music.

1748
01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:34.920
I like singing.

1749
01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:36.920
And I like interpreting songs.

1750
01:17:36.920 --> 01:17:37.920
It's not...

1751
01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:42.920
I don't go way out and interpret things in a completely different manner than anybody else would do

1752
01:17:42.920 --> 01:17:45.920
that I'm not trying to be avant-garde about them.

1753
01:17:45.920 --> 01:17:46.920
But...

1754
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:48.920
Much of my album is covers.

1755
01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:50.920
And it's called No Remings, by the way.

1756
01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:52.920
You can listen to it on iTunes.

1757
01:17:52.920 --> 01:17:54.920
Oh, no, not iTunes.

1758
01:17:54.920 --> 01:17:56.920
Apple music.

1759
01:17:56.920 --> 01:17:58.920
I think iTunes is gone.

1760
01:17:58.920 --> 01:17:59.920
I don't know.

1761
01:17:59.920 --> 01:18:01.920
Spotify is more of the kind of...

1762
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:05.920
You might be able to listen to it on Spotify as well.

1763
01:18:05.920 --> 01:18:10.920
But anyway, when I was making the album,

1764
01:18:10.920 --> 01:18:18.920
the thing that was the most fun for me was I had my musicians lay down the music tracks.

1765
01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:20.920
Yeah, the instrumental tracks.

1766
01:18:20.920 --> 01:18:27.920
And then I spent hours and hours with the instrumental tracks going over...

1767
01:18:27.920 --> 01:18:31.920
And figuring out how my vocals would go in them.

1768
01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:33.920
And I loved doing that.

1769
01:18:33.920 --> 01:18:36.920
That was really fun for me.

1770
01:18:36.920 --> 01:18:41.920
There's so much sort of detail you can get in the post of music.

1771
01:18:41.920 --> 01:18:42.920
Yes.

1772
01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:43.920
And I also...

1773
01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:46.920
I like telling a story with music.

1774
01:18:46.920 --> 01:18:49.920
I'm a storyteller as an actor.

1775
01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:54.920
And I think the way I sing is more of storytelling in the music,

1776
01:18:54.920 --> 01:18:58.920
rather than just reciting lyrics,

1777
01:18:59.920 --> 01:19:01.920
vocalizing lyrics.

1778
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:02.920
Yeah.

1779
01:19:02.920 --> 01:19:05.920
Is there anyone out there that you'd like to work with if you got the chance?

1780
01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:07.920
Because you've got so many amazing people.

1781
01:19:07.920 --> 01:19:09.920
Is there anyone out there who you're a fan of?

1782
01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:10.920
Yes.

1783
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:13.920
I would like to work with Steven Spielberg, please,

1784
01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:15.920
and make a lot of money.

1785
01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:17.920
Let's make it happen.

1786
01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:19.920
Because he's still going.

1787
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:20.920
He's still going.

1788
01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:21.920
Yes, he is.

1789
01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:23.920
Disclosure days coming out in a few months.

1790
01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:25.920
That's, you know, the Spielberg.

1791
01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:27.920
Are you a fan of his movies?

1792
01:19:27.920 --> 01:19:29.920
I'm a fan of some of them, yes.

1793
01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:31.920
Which ones are your favorites?

1794
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:33.920
Well, E.T.

1795
01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:35.920
Of course.

1796
01:19:35.920 --> 01:19:36.920
Jaws.

1797
01:19:36.920 --> 01:19:42.920
Well, Schindler's list was brilliant.

1798
01:19:42.920 --> 01:19:46.920
No, I mean, I am not a film scholar.

1799
01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:48.920
You can ask me all kinds of questions about film,

1800
01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:51.920
and I will go completely blank on you.

1801
01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:54.920
So if you ever want to talk to somebody about film and film history,

1802
01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:56.920
talk to Peaches.

1803
01:19:56.920 --> 01:19:58.920
Is Peaches the go-to?

1804
01:19:58.920 --> 01:19:59.920
He is the go-to.

1805
01:19:59.920 --> 01:20:01.920
Because you did all about evil together, right?

1806
01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:02.920
Yes.

1807
01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:03.920
Well, he wrote and directed it.

1808
01:20:03.920 --> 01:20:04.920
Yes.

1809
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:05.920
And how about that?

1810
01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:06.920
And is in it.

1811
01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:07.920
Yeah.

1812
01:20:07.920 --> 01:20:08.920
And how did that come together?

1813
01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:09.920
Was that born out of idle worship?

1814
01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:11.920
Well, we had worked together.

1815
01:20:11.920 --> 01:20:12.920
We had done idle worship.

1816
01:20:12.920 --> 01:20:14.920
We had done a version of idle worship.

1817
01:20:14.920 --> 01:20:15.920
We didn't call it that.

1818
01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:18.920
But we had done some stage shows together.

1819
01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:24.920
Well, we had done basically a very early, early iteration of idle worship,

1820
01:20:24.920 --> 01:20:30.920
where I would come out and he would interview me and then he'd show a film.

1821
01:20:30.920 --> 01:20:33.920
So then when he made the movie, when he was casting the movie,

1822
01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:36.920
he did call me and asked me to be in it,

1823
01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:38.920
because we were friends by that time.

1824
01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:42.920
Our friendship has certainly grown since then.

1825
01:20:42.920 --> 01:20:45.920
But yeah, it came out of that.

1826
01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:47.920
And you say you're not a film scholar,

1827
01:20:47.920 --> 01:20:49.920
but do you have a film fan?

1828
01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:50.920
Are there any sort of filmmakers?

1829
01:20:50.920 --> 01:20:54.920
You know, I'm average American filmgoer, basically.

1830
01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:56.920
I mean, what have I seen lately?

1831
01:20:56.920 --> 01:20:57.920
I saw.

1832
01:20:57.920 --> 01:21:00.920
Oh, I saw the one with Ryan.

1833
01:21:00.920 --> 01:21:01.920
What's it called?

1834
01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:02.920
Project Hell Mary?

1835
01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:03.920
Yes, I saw Project Hell Mary.

1836
01:21:03.920 --> 01:21:04.920
No way.

1837
01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:05.920
I really liked it.

1838
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:06.920
Yeah, I saw it yesterday.

1839
01:21:06.920 --> 01:21:08.920
Yeah, I liked him a lot.

1840
01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:12.920
I think he has a wonderful, a wonderful,

1841
01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:16.920
relaxed, interesting quality on film.

1842
01:21:16.920 --> 01:21:17.920
I think he's a movie star.

1843
01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:19.920
He's kind of got an effortless quality.

1844
01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:21.920
An effortless quality, yes.

1845
01:21:21.920 --> 01:21:23.920
He's kind of carried grant.

1846
01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:24.920
Yeah.

1847
01:21:24.920 --> 01:21:27.920
Because that movie, it's literally just him and basically just him and a robot.

1848
01:21:27.920 --> 01:21:28.920
I know.

1849
01:21:28.920 --> 01:21:29.920
And he can hold it together.

1850
01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:30.920
And he holds it together.

1851
01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:32.920
So I was very impressed with that.

1852
01:21:32.920 --> 01:21:33.920
Are you a sci-fi fan?

1853
01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:34.920
No, particularly.

1854
01:21:34.920 --> 01:21:37.920
But I'm a Ryan, whatever his name is, fan.

1855
01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:38.920
Hangosley.

1856
01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:43.920
So if Steven Spielberg was making a movie with Ryan Gosling.

1857
01:21:43.920 --> 01:21:44.920
Oh, please.

1858
01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:45.920
Please.

1859
01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:47.920
Fantastic.

1860
01:21:47.920 --> 01:21:51.920
Well, I gotta say, before we finish, I'm such a big fan of serial mom.

1861
01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:53.920
And it's one of my favorite films of yours.

1862
01:21:53.920 --> 01:21:55.920
And I just wanted to ask about those scenes,

1863
01:21:55.920 --> 01:21:56.920
because you played Dotty Hinkle.

1864
01:21:56.920 --> 01:21:57.920
Yes.

1865
01:21:57.920 --> 01:21:58.920
It's kind of neurotic housewife in that film.

1866
01:21:58.920 --> 01:22:00.920
And you have these scenes of Kathleen Turner,

1867
01:22:00.920 --> 01:22:01.920
who's the star,

1868
01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:02.920
which is just hilarious.

1869
01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:04.920
I'm like, you have these phone call scenes.

1870
01:22:04.920 --> 01:22:07.920
And I just want to ask about the making of that film.

1871
01:22:08.920 --> 01:22:10.920
That movie was really fun.

1872
01:22:10.920 --> 01:22:12.920
It was really, really fun.

1873
01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:14.920
Kathleen should have gotten an Oscar.

1874
01:22:14.920 --> 01:22:16.920
I mean, there was never any question about it.

1875
01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:19.920
It takes millions of dollars to promote an Oscar.

1876
01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:26.920
But she is, it is the most wonderful personification of evil

1877
01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:28.920
that I've ever seen.

1878
01:22:28.920 --> 01:22:34.920
This joyousness of just a monster.

1879
01:22:34.920 --> 01:22:37.920
And she is so charming and so likable.

1880
01:22:37.920 --> 01:22:39.920
So I thought she was wonderful.

1881
01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:40.920
I loved working with her.

1882
01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:41.920
She was really fun to work with.

1883
01:22:41.920 --> 01:22:42.920
I was nervous.

1884
01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:43.920
I was very apprehensive.

1885
01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:47.920
I had heard that she was difficult.

1886
01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:50.920
And I don't, I couldn't tell you where I heard it.

1887
01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:52.920
But you know, in the ether,

1888
01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:54.920
there was Kathleen Turner is difficult.

1889
01:22:54.920 --> 01:22:56.920
She was not difficult at all.

1890
01:22:56.920 --> 01:22:59.920
She was having a wonderful time.

1891
01:22:59.920 --> 01:23:03.920
She really enjoyed playing that part.

1892
01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:05.920
I mean, you can see it.

1893
01:23:05.920 --> 01:23:06.920
You can see it.

1894
01:23:06.920 --> 01:23:07.920
You can watch it.

1895
01:23:07.920 --> 01:23:08.920
You can tell she's having fun.

1896
01:23:08.920 --> 01:23:12.920
One of my favorite moments in the film is during the phone call

1897
01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:14.920
where she calls me, you know,

1898
01:23:14.920 --> 01:23:15.920
watch your filthy mouth.

1899
01:23:15.920 --> 01:23:17.920
You're filthy whore, whatever it is.

1900
01:23:17.920 --> 01:23:20.920
She says, right before she, you know,

1901
01:23:20.920 --> 01:23:22.920
she calls me and she chooses me out.

1902
01:23:22.920 --> 01:23:26.920
And then she calls me back as the telephone operator.

1903
01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:29.920
But before she does, there's this little giggle

1904
01:23:29.920 --> 01:23:30.920
that she does.

1905
01:23:30.920 --> 01:23:32.920
That just every time she does it,

1906
01:23:32.920 --> 01:23:34.920
it just makes me want to laugh.

1907
01:23:34.920 --> 01:23:38.920
It's just such a wonderful little giggle.

1908
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:40.920
It's almost like a little school girl giggle.

1909
01:23:40.920 --> 01:23:41.920
It is.

1910
01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:42.920
She's just the gleeful.

1911
01:23:42.920 --> 01:23:43.920
Stop it.

1912
01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:44.920
Yeah.

1913
01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:45.920
And then the scene in the courtroom.

1914
01:23:45.920 --> 01:23:46.920
I love that one.

1915
01:23:46.920 --> 01:23:47.920
That must have been fun to shoot.

1916
01:23:47.920 --> 01:23:48.920
It was.

1917
01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:52.920
I mean, I had to call one of the biggest movie stars.

1918
01:23:52.920 --> 01:23:53.920
And she was at that time,

1919
01:23:53.920 --> 01:23:55.920
one of the biggest movie stars.

1920
01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:57.920
I got to call her a pickfucker.

1921
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:00.920
Who can say that?

1922
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:02.920
She thought it was great.

1923
01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:05.920
You get, because you're getting dragged out, aren't you?

1924
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:07.920
By the way, you're just shouting all these.

1925
01:24:07.920 --> 01:24:10.920
She likes it because like the character you play almost seems

1926
01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:12.920
like she's quite sort of buttoned up kind of house.

1927
01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:14.920
You know, I don't use bad language.

1928
01:24:14.920 --> 01:24:15.920
She did, though.

1929
01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:16.920
Yeah.

1930
01:24:16.920 --> 01:24:19.920
Well, she had it quite, quite there at the tip of her tongue.

1931
01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:20.920
Yes.

1932
01:24:20.920 --> 01:24:21.920
Yeah, this gets brought out by,

1933
01:24:21.920 --> 01:24:23.920
by Kathy Turner's character.

1934
01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:24.920
And you're absolutely right.

1935
01:24:24.920 --> 01:24:26.920
You can see that sort of deliciousness.

1936
01:24:26.920 --> 01:24:28.920
Oh, she was just having the best time.

1937
01:24:28.920 --> 01:24:29.920
She really was.

1938
01:24:29.920 --> 01:24:31.920
I think she enjoyed every minute of it.

1939
01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:32.920
And I see her.

1940
01:24:32.920 --> 01:24:33.920
I don't see her often,

1941
01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:35.920
but I mean, I have been to see her in place.

1942
01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:37.920
She's a wonderful actress.

1943
01:24:37.920 --> 01:24:38.920
I've seen her in play.

1944
01:24:38.920 --> 01:24:39.920
I said, I should say actor.

1945
01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:44.920
I think that's one of those words that should be gender neutral.

1946
01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:48.920
But I've seen her in plays.

1947
01:24:48.920 --> 01:24:55.920
And she's just a glorious thing to watch on stage.

1948
01:24:55.920 --> 01:24:58.920
And John seems so proud of that movie, particularly.

1949
01:24:58.920 --> 01:25:01.920
I mean, John is, as he should be, you know, very proud of the work

1950
01:25:01.920 --> 01:25:02.920
that he did and you guys did together.

1951
01:25:02.920 --> 01:25:03.920
But I think you see,

1952
01:25:03.920 --> 01:25:06.920
he always talks about serial momers, like, you know, very fondly.

1953
01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:08.920
It's like, as if it's, you know, he says it's his best movie.

1954
01:25:08.920 --> 01:25:10.920
He actually said once was like, this is my.

1955
01:25:10.920 --> 01:25:11.920
Well, I think it is.

1956
01:25:11.920 --> 01:25:13.920
I think it actually is.

1957
01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:15.920
I mean, I think, like I said earlier,

1958
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:18.920
the best movie of his early years.

1959
01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:20.920
Pink flamingos got all the notoriety,

1960
01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:22.920
but female trouble is a better movie.

1961
01:25:23.920 --> 01:25:25.920
It's just, it's not quite a shocking,

1962
01:25:25.920 --> 01:25:28.920
but it has its moments.

1963
01:25:28.920 --> 01:25:33.920
And, but the storyline, the plot and the acting throughout is,

1964
01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:35.920
I think, better.

1965
01:25:35.920 --> 01:25:38.920
But serial mom definitely is the crowning achievement.

1966
01:25:38.920 --> 01:25:39.920
I agree.

1967
01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:40.920
As a wrap-up question.

1968
01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:41.920
I mean, it's a big question.

1969
01:25:41.920 --> 01:25:43.920
I mean, if you could be remembered for one thing,

1970
01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:46.920
Pink Star, what would you like, want to be remembered for?

1971
01:25:46.920 --> 01:25:47.920
Oh, good Lord.

1972
01:25:47.920 --> 01:25:52.920
You mean me personally, or, or, I guess, I guess,

1973
01:25:52.920 --> 01:25:55.920
I guess, like, Pink stole the sort of the dreamlander

1974
01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:58.920
and then, like, Pink stole the person, you know, Nancy.

1975
01:25:58.920 --> 01:25:59.920
No, never Nancy.

1976
01:25:59.920 --> 01:26:00.920
Never Nancy.

1977
01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:03.920
Only people who don't know me call me Nancy.

1978
01:26:05.920 --> 01:26:07.920
I think, I think the early dreamlander,

1979
01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:09.920
I think that is what I'm most proud of.

1980
01:26:09.920 --> 01:26:12.920
That has had the biggest effect on my life,

1981
01:26:12.920 --> 01:26:14.920
the fact that I'm still working with it,

1982
01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:18.920
the fact that I'm on stage Friday night at the BFI

1983
01:26:18.920 --> 01:26:22.920
because of what I did, of because of those films.

1984
01:26:22.920 --> 01:26:25.920
So, yes, I think the early dreamland work is certainly

1985
01:26:25.920 --> 01:26:29.920
what is, if a legacy there be, that be it.

1986
01:26:29.920 --> 01:26:31.920
I like to say it's in the Library of Congress.

1987
01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:32.920
Yeah, absolutely.

1988
01:26:32.920 --> 01:26:34.920
Because it's all reserved for all time.

1989
01:26:34.920 --> 01:26:35.920
Yeah.

1990
01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:36.920
Wonderful.

1991
01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:37.920
Well, what can I say?

1992
01:26:37.920 --> 01:26:39.920
Thank you so much, Pink, for coming on the show.

1993
01:26:39.920 --> 01:26:40.920
I'm such a fan of yours.

1994
01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:41.920
And it really was just such a pleasure

1995
01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:42.920
just to hear you chat to us.

1996
01:26:42.920 --> 01:26:43.920
Well, thank you.

1997
01:26:43.920 --> 01:26:44.920
Thank you.

1998
01:26:44.920 --> 01:26:45.920
Thank you.

1999
01:26:45.920 --> 01:26:46.920
This has really been fun.

2000
01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:47.920
I've enjoyed an enormous light.

2001
01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:48.920
Thank you so much, Pink.

2002
01:26:48.920 --> 01:26:49.920
Thank you very much.

2003
01:26:49.920 --> 01:26:50.920
I really enjoyed myself.