WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.720 Hey guys, and welcome back to another WayUK podcast. I'm your host Zoe, and I'm joined by my wonderful co-host 2 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:09.240 Zach, what up gang? 3 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:11.240 What are you saying? 4 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.240 Zach, not WayFair. 5 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:19.000 Today we're joined by very exciting and wonderful guests as a friend of ours, and my leader. 6 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:21.000 And Grace! 7 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:22.000 You're a leader. 8 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.000 You're a leader. 9 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:26.000 You're welcome. Thank you so much for coming on. 10 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:27.000 It's a joy guys. 11 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.000 I'm so excited. 12 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.000 I'm actually also in the same lecture class as Zach. 13 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.000 It's true, little known facts. 14 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.000 It's crazy, little crossover episodes. 15 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:38.000 I was actually thinking about this. We've known each other for like actually quite a long time. 16 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.000 Yeah. 17 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.000 But we've never really hung out. 18 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.000 No, this is the proper meet and greet. 19 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:45.000 This is good. This is right. Super Ramo. 20 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 21 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.000 I'm so excited for you guys to get to know each other. 22 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:50.000 Yeah, so you could do... 23 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:52.000 You just chill there. 24 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.000 I can't wait. 25 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:59.000 Right, well, before we dive into this episode, guys, just wanted to ask if you could please, 26 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.000 like and subscribe this if you're listening on YouTube. 27 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:07.000 And if you're watching or listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please leave a rating and a follow 28 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:12.000 because our mission here at the way is to share the good news of Jesus with every young person online. 29 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.000 Amen. 30 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:14.000 And that just helps us to do that. 31 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:17.000 So it would be awesome if you could do that, guys. 32 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.000 No pressure though, if you don't want to. 33 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.000 But anyway, so let's dive right into the podcast for all the credits. 34 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:28.000 Ben. 35 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.000 Sorry. 36 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:30.000 Let's get started. 37 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:31.000 Let's do it. 38 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:32.000 Who are you? 39 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:34.000 And how did you come to know God? 40 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:35.000 We just want to start there. 41 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:36.000 To start with a small question. 42 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.000 Yeah, to start with the time you're supposed to be here. 43 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.000 And my name is Ben. 44 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:44.000 I am training to be a vicar. 45 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:48.000 And I've been a Christian now 12 years. 46 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:52.000 So yeah, grew up in a Christian family. 47 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:58.000 And so kind of believed in God, but didn't really like know more than that. 48 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.000 Kind of just for granted. 49 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.000 But then as kind of life goes. 50 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:12.000 Got less and less interested in God situations, which may have all come to kind of affected that. 51 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:14.000 And then age 17. 52 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:18.000 And gave my life to Jesus in an awesome way. 53 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.000 That is amazing. 54 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.000 I can't wait to get into your story. 55 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:28.000 But you mentioned in your testimony that before you came to know Jesus, 56 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.000 give your life to him when you were 17. 57 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.000 There are a few situations that maybe took you away from that. 58 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:36.000 I'd love to hear a bit more about that. 59 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.000 I know some of our audience would probably relate to that. 60 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:44.000 That the hardships that comes with walking with God as a young person. 61 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:46.000 So yeah, just for please. 62 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.000 Yeah, it's a way. 63 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:49.000 I'd love to hear more. 64 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:50.000 Yeah, of course. 65 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:56.000 Yeah, well, like I said, I grew up amazing Christian parents and kind of classic attended like Sunday school. 66 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:00.000 But when I was at 10, I went away to Bournemouth school. 67 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.000 So kind of didn't go to church in that time. 68 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.000 We had to go to chapel every week. 69 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.000 Which was pretty dull. 70 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:12.000 And I emphasized that I have to. 71 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.000 And yeah, so it was a way for school actually from age 10 to 18. 72 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:25.000 And over that time, just any sort of like relationship with God just became more, more, more distant. 73 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:28.000 And that was going to chapel and stuff like that. 74 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:34.000 And just wasn't around any Christians didn't really know who God was. 75 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:37.000 I definitely didn't really understand who Jesus was. 76 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.000 And that could have a relationship with him. 77 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:45.000 So kind of that distance maybe away from like my like all my parents faith. 78 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:50.000 But also, yeah, my school experience was pretty challenging. 79 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:57.000 I was probably but who I was bullied for about seven years of that time. 80 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.000 So probably since age like 10, 11. 81 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:05.000 I was at my like first school then moved and actually the bullying got worse at the second school. 82 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:12.000 So that was like kind of the classic physical bullying, but also like emotional name calling. 83 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:16.000 And yeah, at a boarding school, you're kind of very like trapped in. 84 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.000 And so there's not much of an escape from that. 85 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:24.000 So that begun to like take its toll in so many different ways. 86 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:29.000 And one of those ways was that any question of faith or like following that, 87 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:32.000 which obviously wasn't wasn't like the done thing. 88 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.000 I didn't know any other Christians my age. 89 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:40.000 So any thought like I'd go and put myself out there and like explore this God that I kind of believed in, 90 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.000 but didn't know much about that was out the question. 91 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:52.000 And and more than that, I was I think I think naturally I was like so many young people just trying to fit in. 92 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:59.000 And trying to figure out like these guys that were bullying me and making my life really difficult. 93 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:04.000 And I was like, okay, what if I can do the things that they're doing, 94 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:10.000 if I can drink their alcohol, if I can kiss the girl, if I can you name her. 95 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:17.000 If I can do those things that maybe are to fit in, maybe then stop bullying and maybe I'd like be able to become friends. 96 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.000 And kind of that was my goal. That was what I wanted. 97 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:26.000 You know, I was I was desperately looking for a way out away for people to like accept me and like me. 98 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:32.000 And even though like I can look back now and I know deep down like those things that I thought I wanted, 99 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:38.000 I knew that it didn't like sit with who well now I could say like God created me. 100 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.000 But in that environment where you know life was really, really tough. 101 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:50.000 I was like I said away from family. I hardly had any any friends. 102 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:56.000 And yeah, I was like very alone, very isolated. 103 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:04.000 And about aged 17. So this had gone on and I literally hardly had it like a friend in the world. 104 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:10.000 And I remember after particularly difficult day, I think that I'd been like. 105 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.000 Yeah, it's good to share, but it's like what they used to have nicknames for me. 106 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:21.000 So my name was like never called and one of those nicknames was worthless. 107 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.000 Which obviously God is redeemed and we'll get to that maybe. 108 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:32.000 But so I get called all these names, but also like kind of physically bullied as well. 109 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:37.000 And I remember after particularly like difficult day, such a clear memory. 110 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:44.000 I don't know if you have those moments where like God almost makes such a clear memory and like it's just so like instilled in your mind. 111 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:51.000 I got back into my dorm room and I was just lying in bed and probably prayed the first prayer that I ever actually prayed. 112 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:56.000 Not like I really know it. I just remember like looking up and be like, where are you God? 113 00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:01.000 Like where are you? If you're if you're real, where are you? 114 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.000 And how is any of this fair? 115 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:08.000 Like what are you doing to like help me in this in my life? 116 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:17.000 And probably a sense of like anger and like despair and maybe I believed in God at that time. 117 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:27.000 But at best, I thought that he was a man up in the sky with a beard, like watching down without intervening. 118 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:28.000 So real. 119 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:31.000 So classic, yeah, Sunday school picture. 120 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:36.000 But was like at best, if he was there, he was up in the sky and he's got bigger fist of fry. 121 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:40.000 You know, he's got bigger things to think about and wasn't interested in my life. 122 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:45.000 Obviously, because of what I was experiencing the experiencing day to day. 123 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:49.000 That was age 17 and and you know, nothing happened. 124 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:52.000 You know, I just not like in that moment, God was like, hello, I'm here. 125 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:59.000 It was like nothing happened in that moment, but it's amazing. 126 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:08.000 One of the passages I love in some 23, I think. 127 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.000 You know, and you just want to like get a Bible message. 128 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.000 Get that word. 129 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:14.000 Figure out. 130 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:20.000 But it says, surely your goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life. 131 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.000 And I love it because it's like will like follow. 132 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:25.000 It will follow us. 133 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:31.000 And so often that means we actually need to look backwards and see his goodness and his mercy. 134 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:34.000 And it's not necessarily like in the moment that we consider birth. 135 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:38.000 It's like our goodness and his goodness and mercy like follows us. 136 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.000 So actually, as we look back, now I can see like what the law was doing. 137 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:47.000 But anyway, a couple months after I had that moment in. 138 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.000 Had that moment in my in my like dorm room and crying out. 139 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:58.000 My mom, who's a faithful prayer warrior, praise God for the faithful moms who just pray. 140 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:02.000 Shout out to my mom. 141 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:09.000 She felt from the Holy Spirit to take us back to a Christian festival that we'd been to focus. 142 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.000 Which is like a big church festival. 143 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:16.000 And we'd been when we were much younger, like nine or ten. 144 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:19.000 And behind being for work decade. 145 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:25.000 And, and you know, age 17 is kind of like the last time that you kind of have to go with what your family say. 146 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:26.000 Yeah, it's true. 147 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.000 You're like summer plans. 148 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:31.000 So it's like she tells us, oh, we've booked on to this and I'm like absolutely gathered. 149 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:34.000 I know no one, I'm not interested. 150 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.000 And I played a lot of sport. 151 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:38.000 I played a lot of cricket. 152 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.000 I had a cricket match at the beginning, cricket match halfway. 153 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.000 And I was like, okay, I'm arriving late. 154 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.000 I'm leaving to go to play this like match. 155 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.000 And I'll probably won't come back. 156 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:49.000 So maybe I have to do like two days. 157 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:50.000 Like that would be fine. 158 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.000 So in between things. 159 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:52.000 Yeah. 160 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.000 Anyway, went to this. 161 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:56.000 There's Christian festival. 162 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:57.000 Went to focus. 163 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:02.000 And radically met the person of Jesus. 164 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.000 Wow. 165 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:06.000 And that week changed my life. 166 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:10.000 Like a hundred and eighty degree turn around. 167 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:13.000 I met him through. 168 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:18.000 I met him through the amazing like worship and the talks and encountered the Holy Spirit. 169 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.000 Probably for the first time. 170 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.000 And yeah, God revealed to me that he wasn't distant or far away. 171 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.000 But in fact, very, very close. 172 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:29.000 And you mean by my name. 173 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:33.000 And wanted friendship and relationship with me. 174 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:36.000 And that was never the God that I thought existed. 175 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.000 And I thought that like I said, he was far away. 176 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.000 And at best, just judging me at one point in my life. 177 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.000 At the end of my life, we just judging me one way or the other. 178 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:50.000 But yeah, that week I encountered the real living God in Jesus. 179 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:52.000 And the Holy Spirit and everything changed. 180 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:56.000 And I encountered him through both like sessions. 181 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.000 Like, you know, you turn up to the session. 182 00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:59.000 You know, you're amazing. 183 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:02.000 But I also encountered him through, I guess we'd say the church, 184 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.000 but it was just a group of friends. 185 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.000 And bearing, I've come, bearing mine, I've come from a place where I've had like no friends. 186 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.000 Zero social confidence, zero. 187 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:14.000 Like belief in myself or ability to make friends, 188 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:17.000 because that would be my story for the last few years. 189 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:22.000 And these people who didn't really know me just loved me. 190 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.000 And asked me questions. 191 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.000 And just included me in a way that I've never experienced in my life. 192 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.000 And immediately I could tell there was something different about them. 193 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:36.000 And kind of over that week I was like, wow, they actually believe in this God. 194 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.000 They don't just like just do this because that's what their parents do. 195 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.000 They actually believe in Jesus. 196 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:46.000 And their lives are affected and changed and transformed by it. 197 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:51.000 So yeah, that was a 180 degree moment for me, given my life to Jesus. 198 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.000 And everything changed from there. 199 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:59.000 It was actually amazing to reflect on because before that week, you know, 200 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:05.000 like I said, no confidence felt like no personality didn't enjoy being around people. 201 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:11.000 It was almost like in that week as I turned back to Jesus and put my trust in him. 202 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.000 It's almost like he also restored how I was designed. 203 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:19.000 And it was like almost that it feels like it was given a new personality, 204 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:25.000 but actually the Lord just healed like what had been stolen by the enemy. 205 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:31.000 And yeah, so I went on there, but that's how I came to know Jesus. 206 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.000 Wow, that is crazy. 207 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:40.000 That's like so beautiful how Jesus redeemed your self image and like your identity, 208 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.000 like literally poured into you like you and my son. 209 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:47.000 And I want I desire friendship with you. 210 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:52.000 And I mean just off back everything you shared about your experience at school 211 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:55.000 and how people wouldn't even call you by your name. 212 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:58.000 And then God calling you by your name. 213 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:06.000 Like he's so intentional and kind in literally redeeming our lives and redeeming our stories. 214 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:11.000 And that's so beautiful to know that he did that in such a specific way. 215 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:15.000 And also just through other people and bringing friends around you. 216 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.000 And like revealing to you that it's not you. 217 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:21.000 It's not it's not your fault. 218 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.000 Here is how you're supposed to be loved. 219 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.000 That's what love looks like in the kingdom of God. 220 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.000 Totally. 221 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:29.000 Friendship and acceptance and inclusion. 222 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:30.000 Yeah. 223 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.000 Yeah, totally. 224 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.000 And yeah, God, even though those nicknames that I was giving that, let's say, 225 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:39.000 that worthless one is in like in hindsight. 226 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:45.000 It's like that that was the very lie that the enemy was trying to like plant and make me believe 227 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:49.000 because as Christians we believe the exact opposite. 228 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.000 Jesus calls us. 229 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.000 Full of worth. 230 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:57.000 Full of sonship, full of daughtership, full of his love. 231 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:03.000 And that he's chosen and created after he knows the very hairs on our head. 232 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:10.000 And it's funny what like the enemy tries to often like take away or steal in our lives, 233 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:16.000 becomes the very as God redeems it, becomes the very like center and core of my life. 234 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:21.000 Like now, just totally believe that God loves me. 235 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:22.000 And then he's chosen me. 236 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.000 And it's probably one of the like strongest parts of my faith. 237 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.000 Obviously by great, by what God has done, not by what I've done. 238 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.000 But that's probably one of the strongest parts of my faith that I know, 239 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.000 that I know that I know that I know that Jesus loves me. 240 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.000 That is amazing. 241 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.000 And how did that then, because he said that transformed your life? 242 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.000 Yeah. 243 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:44.000 Yeah, of course. 244 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:45.000 That's amazing. 245 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.000 But how did that then change? 246 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.000 How you approached that? 247 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:53.000 I'm assuming last year, the boarding school, and I know you went to uni. 248 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:57.000 Like how did that impact your friendships, your social life, 249 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:02.000 but even just who you were in the midst of an environment that wasn't really supporting 250 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.000 your championing and championing you? 251 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.000 Yeah, totally. 252 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:08.000 Well, yeah, exactly. 253 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Came back to school for one final year. 254 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.000 And we're still, you know, the only Christian that I knew. 255 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:19.000 I knew Christians who, obviously the guys that I met in that festival, 256 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.000 but at school was kind of like, you know, out on it and alone. 257 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:28.000 And that could be super difficult when you're the only Christian in your like immediate circle. 258 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:32.000 But suddenly my whole desire has changed. 259 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:39.000 So where I wanted to find my identity in what the guys who were, 260 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:44.000 I wanted to be accepted and be part of what they were. 261 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:53.000 I wanted to find my identity in a relationship or being part of like the cool guys or whatever it was. 262 00:15:53.000 --> 00:16:00.000 It's like that whole desire and identity shifted because I knew that my identity was already secured. 263 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:05.000 That Jesus, Jesus's love was what defined me not what anyone else thought. 264 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:10.000 So my whole like world view shifted in that last year. 265 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:16.000 And amazingly, those guys could then like see it and they actually transformed a lot of that relationship. 266 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:20.000 And it wasn't like they were all nice to me overnight and things changed. 267 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:24.000 But as I just wasn't as affected by what was going on around me, 268 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:32.000 one because I had Jesus and his Holy Spirit and learned to begin to cultivate that kind of friendship with God. 269 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.000 And that experience that focused, you know, at that one moment, 270 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.000 it was like, no, that was the start of a friendship. 271 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:47.000 So I had that, but I also had a Christian community who began to like cheer me on, pray for me, 272 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:51.000 could pick up the phone and chat to someone who would like, 273 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:59.000 you know, where previously my life was like so insular and lonely and isolated. 274 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:04.000 But Bible says that God puts the lonely in families. 275 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.000 And that was so my story. 276 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.000 Are you still friends with those guys today? 277 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.000 I am. 278 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.000 Yeah. 279 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:12.000 Oh, that's so awesome. 280 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.000 Yeah. 281 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.000 Yeah. 282 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.000 Can I say this? 283 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.000 Joel behind the camera. 284 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:24.000 His amazing wife, Sophie, was one of those really no way. 285 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.000 And so is my wife. 286 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.000 That's so awesome. 287 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.000 Yeah. 288 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:31.000 The Lord blessed you numerous ways on them. 289 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:32.000 Amen. 290 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:33.000 Amen. 291 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.000 That's Christ in New York. 292 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.000 Yeah. 293 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.000 They were you met your wife? 294 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:38.000 Yes. 295 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:39.000 She was in the friendship room. 296 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.000 Yeah. 297 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:41.000 Shout out. 298 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.000 Yeah. 299 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:43.000 She's good. 300 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:44.000 That is awesome. 301 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.000 Yeah. 302 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:46.000 So double portion. 303 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.000 Double portion. 304 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.000 Yeah. 305 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:49.000 Yeah. 306 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.000 Although it took me about 10 years to convince Ellen to marry me. 307 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.000 So that is another story. 308 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:54.000 It's crazy. 309 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.000 Yeah. 310 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:56.000 Okay. 311 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.000 You know, it's mutual now. 312 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:58.000 But it wasn't mutual for a while. 313 00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.000 Yeah. 314 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.000 I'm glad it's mutual now. 315 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.000 Yeah. 316 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.000 I'm glad it's mutual now. 317 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:03.000 Yeah. 318 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.000 I'm curious. 319 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.000 What happened after that year? 320 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.000 Yeah. 321 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.000 Obviously, like the context, I know you and his we're studying theology alongside 322 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:12.000 another. 323 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.000 Yeah. 324 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:18.000 But how did what happened before you got to that place of making that decision that 325 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.000 that was your calling? 326 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:20.000 Yeah. 327 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:21.000 Yeah. 328 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.000 Talk me through like the next couple of years. 329 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:23.000 Yeah. 330 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.000 It's a great question. 331 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.000 I finished school. 332 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:32.000 That last school year was the best school year. 333 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.000 Primarily because I'd become a Christian. 334 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:38.000 It was just like the lights in my life turned on. 335 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.000 And, and then yeah, had a had a gap here. 336 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:44.000 And like I said, played, yeah, played a lot of cricket. 337 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.000 So the plan was a lot of my friends were going off and doing cool like 338 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.000 like missional Christian gap years. 339 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.000 But I was kind of like, oh, I only just got saved like I kind of missed the boat. 340 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.000 But actually, that was totally God's plan. 341 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.000 So I went out to South Africa for six months. 342 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.000 Oh, yeah. 343 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.000 And was like an overseas cricketer for a club out there. 344 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:02.000 We're in South Africa. 345 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.000 And in a place called Stellanbosh. 346 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.000 So just outside Cape Dan. 347 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.000 So cool. 348 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.000 So yeah, six months of playing cricket, which which also for me was the dream. 349 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:12.000 And South Africa is beautiful. 350 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:13.000 Have you ever been? 351 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:14.000 No, I haven't. 352 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:15.000 I want to go so bad. 353 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.000 I don't have friends. 354 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.000 Yeah. 355 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:18.000 Yeah. 356 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.000 Yeah. 357 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.000 Yeah. 358 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.000 Just waiting for the Lord's word to prefer to word to send me back to South Africa. 359 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.000 Brandon. 360 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:26.000 Cricket. 361 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:27.000 Cricket in church. 362 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.000 Yeah, yeah. 363 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.000 Cricket in church. 364 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:30.000 Anyway. 365 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.000 So yeah, I was kind of out then and completely like. 366 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.000 You know, it was just I didn't know anyone. 367 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:38.000 So I was out there for six months. 368 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.000 And God was so deliberate in that time. 369 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:46.000 Because even though that last year like I'd begun to be able to like go to church. 370 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.000 You know, I've never been to church before like for myself. 371 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.000 And like I said, established that sort of Christian community. 372 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.000 But in that year, God. 373 00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:01.000 I learned what it was to like, I guess have a like intimate personal relationship with Jesus. 374 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.000 So start reading, get into the Bible. 375 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.000 Start reading different like Christian discipleship books. 376 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.000 Start having times to like pray. 377 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:14.000 And it was almost like God took me out into a completely different part of the world. 378 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:23.000 To get to know him and get to know him is a friend and for him to become in some ways like my best friend out there. 379 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:30.000 So that was that year and just feel so grateful for that as well as like lots of fun in South Africa. 380 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.000 And making lots of mistakes as well. 381 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:33.000 That's not like gloss over. 382 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:34.000 It was like. 383 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:35.000 I was a baby Christian. 384 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:40.000 So I was falling over every day or every other day. 385 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:43.000 But they're all so gracious. 386 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:47.000 A couple of my friends have just started having kids. 387 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.000 It's just scary, but crazy. 388 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.000 But fun. 389 00:20:50.000 --> 00:21:01.000 And yeah, one of the things that I've loved is them starting to like walk and like get up and walk and then like trip over and fall on their face. 390 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.000 And yeah, I haven't loved that part. 391 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.000 It's kind of funny. 392 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:07.000 I love seeing that. 393 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:14.000 But then just seeing like their mom or their dad like pick them up and just cheer them on. 394 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:15.000 Well, that's amazing. 395 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.000 And it's just like that's totally how the father like sees us walk. 396 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.000 Sometimes I think we can get it so wrong where we're like. 397 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.000 Oh gosh, like I've messed up. 398 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.000 I slipped over like oh, and you're just waiting to punish me. 399 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.000 But the Lord is a good father. 400 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:34.000 And he, he, he delights us. 401 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.000 We'd like to try. 402 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:42.000 So I just need the Lord's delight as I was figuring out that year and still figuring out now. 403 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.000 Like still fall over. 404 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.000 Still, still mess up. 405 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:52.000 But the Lord is a loving father helping us walk and grow and mature. 406 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.000 So yeah, I had that year and then went off to university. 407 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:03.000 And actually really also in a significant memory for me was going to university. 408 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:08.000 And I remember literally on the like drive up. 409 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:13.000 And I hadn't like necessarily struggled with anxiety in my life before. 410 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.000 But I went up to Durham University. 411 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.000 So it was a long like five hour drive. 412 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:22.000 And I remember feeling like probably the most anxious I've ever felt in my life. 413 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:28.000 And it was like, it was like the enemy was trying to lie to me. 414 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:33.000 And he was almost trying to undo the work that got it done in my life over the last two years. 415 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:39.000 And it was kind of feeding the lives of like, you know, this is going to be the exact same as school. 416 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.000 And what if no one likes you? 417 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.000 What if you never make friends? 418 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:48.000 Like, I remember like just feeling like so, so anxious in that moment. 419 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.000 Again, like inviting the Holy Spirit in. 420 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:55.000 And he didn't like remove all the anxiety in that moment. 421 00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:00.000 But it was amazing going into a brand new place, being like, I know I've got Jesus. 422 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.000 I've got the Holy Spirit. 423 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:09.000 And university was such a redemptive time for me of being in like, I guess, an education setting and making like new friends. 424 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.000 And where school had been so hard. 425 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:20.000 The Lord was so kind to me in university and just had an amazing time growing in my faith. 426 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.000 And making amazing friends both in and outside the church. 427 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.000 And really discovering like what church was for the first time. 428 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:32.000 That was, that was a, that was a big moment. 429 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.000 Because I'd never really been part of like a regular church community. 430 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:38.000 And began to get this like vision of the church. 431 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:45.000 And that it wasn't just a place for believers to go on Sunday and kind of get like topped up in their faith and then leave. 432 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.000 But actually the church, the church is the answer for the world. 433 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:56.000 Not because of the church itself, but because of Jesus' presence as himself in the church and in his people. 434 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:02.000 And I began to get this vision that the church could be healing for the city that I was in. 435 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.000 It could be the place of redemption. It could be the place that people find hope. 436 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:12.000 And kind of just understanding that, yeah, church is a place of mission. 437 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:16.000 And that began to really like put a fire in me. 438 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:25.000 And so I guess that was kind of the beginning part of that journey of like wanting to serve the church just as a punter. 439 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:32.000 But then going forward, like, yeah, feeling like God beginning to call me into church leadership and stuff like that, 440 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.000 which I'm still figuring out and learning. 441 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:43.000 But yeah, feels like the biggest joy of my life to be able to serve the church with my time. 442 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.000 That is so cool. 443 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:51.000 I just, like, I just love how God has like redeemed and rewritten your story. 444 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:58.000 And just like everything that was a struggle for you before is now like an area of blessing and abundance, 445 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:06.000 like just with a friendship with like the education with church, like everything is just teeming with life now. 446 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.000 You just mentioned calling and feeling called into church leadership. 447 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:16.000 What did that look like for you? Like, how could you, how did you discern and understand that, 448 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:24.000 okay, this is what you want me to do, God, or this is what I should do, like, what are you defining calling as? 449 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:31.000 And then how did you follow into that and step out into your faith to pursue it? 450 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.000 Yeah. 451 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.000 Because that's a good question I have as well for myself. 452 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.000 Yeah, totally. 453 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.000 Like calling is just such a big thing. 454 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.000 It is one of the biggest questions, isn't it? Like, what's my calling? What does God want me to do? 455 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.000 Especially as like a young person. 456 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:44.000 Yes. 457 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:46.000 And included myself in that by the way. 458 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:47.000 Thank you. 459 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.000 And just such a, like, a huge question. 460 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.000 And one that I'm still like figuring out, you know? 461 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:02.000 I think one thing that's like helped me is, actually, I feel like I learned this through Ellen, my wife. 462 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.000 So, yeah, exactly. 463 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.000 You don't want to like steal someone else's revelation, but you can pass it on. 464 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:16.000 And I remember her being like, just so sure that Jesus is our calling. 465 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:20.000 Our primary calling is always, is always Jesus, is always God. 466 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:26.000 And yes, God calls us into, to do amazing things, to be with amazing people, 467 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:32.000 to go and visit or live in different places in this country or the world. 468 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:34.000 And those are all amazing, like, callings. 469 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.000 But first and foremost, our calling is always to Jesus. 470 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.000 I think we see that in the Bible when Jesus calls his first disciples. 471 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.000 It's like, first, follow me, follow me. 472 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:50.000 And I think as we approach that conversation of calling, 473 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.000 it's like, never like that. 474 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:57.000 Get outside the, the like, first thing that you see. 475 00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.000 Because if we, if we're trying to find, 476 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.000 like calling an identity can so often be linked. 477 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:11.000 And we're like, oh, if I get, if I'm called to this job, then, you know, 478 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:16.000 maybe I'll find my like identity in doing that or in, or in money or in this relationship 479 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.000 or in what I'm doing. 480 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.000 And it's so easy, a bit of a slippery slope of like finding, oh yeah, Jesus has called me here, 481 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.000 but then actually it's like placing our identity in what we're doing. 482 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:28.000 And not who we are. 483 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:32.000 But as we keep Jesus as our calling, as our primary calling, 484 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:35.000 and listen to him as he guides and leads us. 485 00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:41.000 I think that helps us live from, from a place of being loved by Jesus, 486 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.000 rather than like trying to earn something for, for him. 487 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.000 And yeah, I think as I was like navigating this calling, 488 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:53.000 like I said, I kind of came in with my idea of love playing cricket 489 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.000 and wanting to go professional on that. 490 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.000 And amazingly through university, kind of got to experience some of that, 491 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.000 that life and playing, and then professional, professional cricket. 492 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:08.000 And I love that and thought that that was going to be like, 493 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.000 that was kind of my plan, Ben's plan. 494 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.000 And it's like, I want to play cricket, I want to play cricket in England. 495 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.000 Come on. 496 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:21.000 And as I went through university, kind of realised that actually, 497 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:27.000 I felt like God had, God was calling me in a different way. 498 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:31.000 And actually whilst that was like a great passion, 499 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.000 actually what it felt like the Holy Spirit was leading me to 500 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:39.000 was stuff more around, I guess, serving the church. 501 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:44.000 And something that I'm so grateful for is I had a mentor during university 502 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:49.000 and it was just a place to kind of throw that topic around. 503 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:53.000 And one of the things I think is another pitfall in the conversation of calling 504 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.000 is trying to do it on our own. 505 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.000 And again, as we look through like the Bible, 506 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:06.000 I feel like calling is so often perceived and understood in community. 507 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.000 And I think that I'd encourage that of any young person trying to figure out 508 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:13.000 your calling is like, yes, we need to be praying. 509 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.000 We want to be listening to the Lord. 510 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.000 Actually, discerning our callings and what God is asking us to do, 511 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.000 whether that be for a particular season or the rest of our life, 512 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:27.000 whether it be a place that we're going or a job that we're going to study or commit to 513 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.000 or what we're going to study at university. 514 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.000 So I actually bring the community, the body of Christ in, 515 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:36.000 because God wants to speak to us in so many different ways. 516 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.000 Yeah, He wants to speak to us as we're engaging in with Him 517 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.000 and reading the Bible and listening to His voice. 518 00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:48.000 So I know for me through that time, actually the kind of emerging 519 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.000 and establishing what it felt like God was calling me to, 520 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.000 came through so many different people having senses from the Lord through 521 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.000 conversations that I was having where I was currently suddenly beginning, 522 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:03.000 kind of like a resonance of what they were saying or seeing in me. 523 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.000 Because so often isn't it that other people can see more clearly into us 524 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:09.000 than we can see in ourselves. 525 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:12.000 And so beginning to hear what people were calling me out, 526 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.000 calling out in me, kind of helped me almost build this picture. 527 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:21.000 I don't know many people who's like calling has been from this audible voice of God 528 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.000 that like pierces through the night and is like, 529 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:28.000 you shall go to the Philippines and live the rest of your life as a missionary 530 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.000 or I'm calling you to be a doctor. 531 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.000 I don't know many stories like that. 532 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.000 I'm sure there are loads. 533 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.000 I think more often God wants to speak to us and lead us. 534 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.000 And calling isn't like a chore. 535 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.000 It's not a thing that should bind us. 536 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.000 I think it's so often more an invitation. 537 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.000 It says in John 15, 15 that we're no longer called servants, 538 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:00.000 but we're called friends or Jesus says that to His disciples. 539 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.000 Because servants don't know their master's business, but a friend does. 540 00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:10.000 And friends invite people to places. 541 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.000 And I think I've seen that it's like Jesus by his spirit 542 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.000 just has invited me into different stages of my life, 543 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:23.000 into different things that I get to do like the discipleship year, 544 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:25.000 into different relationships, 545 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:30.000 and with friendships into different places is an invitation. 546 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:34.000 The spirit like leads us, he doesn't push us. 547 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.000 And I think that the push can often feel like pressure. 548 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.000 And like, oh, I've got to fulfill something. 549 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.000 And I think if you're feeling that, maybe question that, 550 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.000 is that actually the Holy Spirit as I feel this like pressure 551 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.000 to do something or pressure to be something? 552 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.000 Actually, that's not like the God we serve. 553 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.000 Jesus as a friend leads us. 554 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:57.000 And the spirit is described as in the Bible 555 00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.000 when Jesus goes into the wilderness, 556 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:01.000 he's like, he leads him into the wilderness. 557 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:03.000 It's not like a shoving or push in. 558 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:07.000 It's like, I often see it like the, almost like a hand holder. 559 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.000 And you're doing it together rather than calling, 560 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.000 feeling like a pressure or like an expectation to live up to. 561 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.000 Because we know that God already loves us. 562 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.000 In His eyes, we're already perfect. 563 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:25.000 And there's nothing that we could do to make that more real. 564 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:27.000 And I love that. 565 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.000 I just love the language of like invitation 566 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.000 and how like friends invite other friends to places like Duh. 567 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:36.000 It's how you build relationships. 568 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.000 That's like, I don't know. 569 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.000 That's so revolutionary to me. 570 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.000 I'm like, wow, even I have had this perspective of calling. 571 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:48.000 It's this big thing that you kind of need to figure out 572 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.000 in like what if I walk outside of the will of God for my life? 573 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.000 Oh, no, what's going to happen? 574 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.000 Like, is everything going to melt around me? 575 00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:57.000 Yeah. 576 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.000 But actually, I love that language of, 577 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.000 is God walking in friendship with us and inviting us to, 578 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:06.000 to go into what He has for us in our, in our lives. 579 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.000 And that is so beautiful. 580 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.000 And like, thanks for sharing that. 581 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.000 Because I, even, are more like useful. 582 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:12.000 That is good. 583 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:13.000 Okay, yeah. 584 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:14.000 It's an invitation. 585 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.000 It's an invitation. 586 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:16.000 Yeah. 587 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:20.000 No, it's so true because, I guess that comes back to like, 588 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.000 what is our primary calling? 589 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:23.000 It's, it's to no God. 590 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:29.000 So, it's so often, it's like just classic Christian cheese. 591 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.000 But I'm just going to, you know, sometimes it's good. 592 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.000 It's like, it is way more about the journey than the destination. 593 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:39.000 And knowing God on the journey. 594 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.000 I was reading, I was reading actually this last weekend in John, 595 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:47.000 where, I think it's John 17, 596 00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:49.000 where Jesus is praying for his disciples. 597 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.000 And he goes, he basically goes, 598 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:54.000 this is a eternal life that you will know God. 599 00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:00.000 And it's like, sometimes we make stuff so complicated. 600 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.000 And we can be like, okay, there's a Christian. 601 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.000 Like, I need to fill my calling, 602 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.000 fulfill the, like will of God. 603 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:07.000 Yeah. 604 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:08.000 And I can feel like pressure. 605 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.000 But eternal life. 606 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.000 And we can translate that eternal life, 607 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.000 not being just the life that we get to heaven. 608 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.000 But this guy Dallas Willard says, 609 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.000 the eternal life is more like the eternal kind of life. 610 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.000 And the life that we're invited to live right now, 611 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:25.000 as we know Jesus. 612 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:27.000 And it's not something that when we get to heaven, 613 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.000 it's like the life right now. 614 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:31.000 And Jesus saying, this is life. 615 00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.000 This is the eternal kind of life to no God. 616 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.000 So that's why I think it's an invitation, 617 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.000 because it's the journey. 618 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:39.000 It's not the destination. 619 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.000 It's not the thing that we're doing. 620 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000 It's, are we walking, living? 621 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.000 Yeah, as a friend of God, friend of the Holy Spirit, 622 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.000 in relationship with him, knowing God. 623 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.000 It's interesting talking about like the Jesus as a friend 624 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.000 and Holy Spirit as a friend, 625 00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:00.000 because I've had, I've had some conversations recently, 626 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.000 where people have been like saying things to me, 627 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:05.000 like, oh, I've been going to church, 628 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.000 and I've been reading my Bible and praying. 629 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.000 But I don't really feel as though I know God. 630 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.000 Or as if I'm really his friend. 631 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.000 And I struggled to answer, 632 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.000 because I was like, I feel like I'm friend of God. 633 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:23.000 But I don't necessarily know why I would say that. 634 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:27.000 Like, what does friendship with God actually mean to you? 635 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:28.000 Like, what does that look like? 636 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.000 I think it's probably come from like how I've understood God, 637 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:35.000 you know, that he's actually not distant and far away, 638 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.000 but wants to live in close proximity to us. 639 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.000 And I think I lived so much in my life, 640 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.000 where I was like, you know, I need to go to church, 641 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.000 or to like a meeting to meet with God. 642 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:51.000 But I think over the years of I've learned that God, 643 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:55.000 by the Holy Spirit, actually wants to speak to us. 644 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.000 It says in John 10, that my sheep know my voice. 645 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:03.000 And I think I've learned that friendship looks like people 646 00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:04.000 talking to each other. 647 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:08.000 Again, in Exodus 33, when Moses is talking with God, 648 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:13.000 it says like Moses talked to God face to face, like a friend. 649 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:16.000 And I think so much in my life, I walked around, 650 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.000 not knowing that I had this access to Jesus, to God, to God, 651 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.000 every single moment of every single day that I could ask for him 652 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:29.000 to speak through the Bible, to speak through like the things 653 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.000 and the people around me. 654 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:33.000 And not that he just wants to speak to me, 655 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.000 but actually that we're called to participate in life 656 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.000 with the Spirit. 657 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.000 Galatians 5 talks about walking with the Spirit. 658 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:45.000 And there's this almost like idea that we walk and do life 659 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.000 alongside the Holy Spirit. 660 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:50.000 And that he calls us to do the things of his Spirit, 661 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:55.000 to love people, to preach the gospel, to heal the sick. 662 00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:58.000 And that, yeah, we see it, we see in the Bible, 663 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.000 sometimes God does stuff like sovereignly and breaks in. 664 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.000 But actually most of the time he calls very ordinary people, 665 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:09.000 like me and like you guys, to do incredible things with him. 666 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:13.000 Not because we're incredible, but because God is. 667 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:18.000 And he's looking to walk with us and treat us like a friend. 668 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.000 And bring him into what the friends do. 669 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:23.000 They bring you into the best things in their life, 670 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:26.000 the most exciting parties or anything like that. 671 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:28.000 That's awesome. 672 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:31.000 And that last bit of what you were sharing about doing the things 673 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.000 that God has like invited us to do, like healing, 674 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.000 sharing the gospel. 675 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.000 I wondered if you had any stories that you wanted to share, 676 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.000 like just off the top of your head about healing. 677 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:44.000 Like any of those things, like he's doing something. 678 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:46.000 Oh, that's a good question. 679 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:50.000 Yeah, healing something I feel super passionate about. 680 00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.000 I'm writing my dissertation. 681 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:55.000 So I'm coming to the end of Vickers School 682 00:37:55.000 --> 00:38:00.000 and I have to do a dissertation and doing that on healing in faith. 683 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:03.000 Because it is an amazing topic, but it's also really complicated. 684 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.000 You know, the kind of question of when we pray for healing, 685 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.000 why do some people get healed and some people don't? 686 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:14.000 But I think I feel like the Holy Spirit is inviting me to pray for healing. 687 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:19.000 And I think that came from the first healing that I ever saw 688 00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:21.000 and was my own healing. 689 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.000 So again, I was at focus like a couple of years later. 690 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.000 We just come back to that like how God like redeems and brings 691 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.000 like an amazing story. 692 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.000 But I used to have like chronic back pain, 693 00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:36.000 almost had like a stress fracture from all the sport that I was playing. 694 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.000 And so I'd often be in like pain in my lower back 695 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.000 and I called one out for healing. 696 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:47.000 And my for like lower back pain. 697 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.000 So I like raising my hand and a friend came over and was like, 698 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:53.000 can I pray for your back? 699 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:55.000 It was like, this might be really weird, 700 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.000 but like are your legs the same length? 701 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.000 And I actually knew that they weren't, 702 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.000 because often when I'd go to like the doctor who would like help my back, 703 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.000 it was like, because that's put in such strain on my back, 704 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.000 it was like my back was a little bit like off. 705 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:14.000 So all my alignment was off. 706 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.000 So we like measured up my legs. 707 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.000 And I could tell you that my left leg was about an insure to the right leg, 708 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.000 which was causing like stress and pain all through my body. 709 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.000 But I knew that the, you know, that that was real. 710 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.000 And the doctor had like had shown me that. 711 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.000 And so it was like, okay, yeah, I know that was real. 712 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:35.000 But I'd never seen the he knows what was about to happen right now. 713 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:40.000 Anyway, this guy, my friend, just prayed super simply, 714 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.000 Lord, would you heal Ben's back? 715 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.000 Would you even up his legs and bring healing to his back? 716 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:53.000 And immediately I felt the strangest sensation in my life of like my left thigh. 717 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:58.000 And almost feeling like play dough and all like clay. 718 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:03.000 And I felt this like kind of like wobbly feeling almost. 719 00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:07.000 And I was sat down with my legs like pointing out. 720 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:12.000 And we measured it again immediately after my leg had evened up to the exact same. 721 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.000 That's crazy, which is completely crazy. 722 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:15.000 And I was watching this. 723 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:18.000 And I never seen a healing didn't like had read it in the Bible, 724 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.000 but was like, is this something that happens and saw this happen? 725 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:25.000 And I then stood up and started walking and stuck almost like tripped over 726 00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.000 because my left leg hit the ground earlier than my brain was like used to. 727 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.000 It was almost like I was like walking in circles. 728 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.000 And yeah, my mind was just completely blown. 729 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.000 And from that day on, I've never struggled with pain in my back. 730 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:41.000 What? He's God. 731 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:45.000 So I think that's that like a like, oh my gosh, God wants to heal. 732 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.000 We should pray for healing like it says in the Bible and like Jesus does. 733 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:56.000 And so I have been trying to pray for as many people for healing as I can 734 00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:03.000 and have seen some, some people not get healed, but also some God do amazing things. 735 00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:11.000 And so often with healing, it's not necessarily just the physical healing that is like the end of the story. 736 00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.000 I think we see in the Bible again a lot. 737 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:16.000 And that's what I've seen as seeing people get healed. 738 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:23.000 It's like God heals physically in their body, whether it be a leg or a back being healed 739 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:26.000 or some of the shoulder being able to be moved or an ear being opened. 740 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:31.000 We saw that recently at St. Paul's during a student night, so I'm not able to hear. 741 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:35.000 We prayed and they're like ear opened. 742 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:42.000 And that's like one part, but so often God is actually wanting to heal like something within us 743 00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:48.000 of actually that God is wanting to show that he's present and he's close and that he cares for that person. 744 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:52.000 So I love that kind of like dual aspect of healing that is a physical side, 745 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:59.000 but actually also it's almost the Lord wanting to show himself deeper. 746 00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:04.000 And one more story that kind of blew my mind recently. 747 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.000 I had a friend, he gave me permission to share this story. 748 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:14.000 And he's kind of like a friend that I made at university, Catholic guy. 749 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:20.000 So kind of believed in God, but not really like following God in a really active way. 750 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:25.000 The New Year is a Christian and yeah, we've like journeyed some of that together. 751 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.000 Anyway, I was on my staggedy actually. 752 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:35.000 And he had real, he'd had like for a year lots of pain in his pancreas. 753 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:42.000 And kind of from the lifestyle that he was living had really struggled with his pancreas. 754 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:46.000 Or was it his liver? I think it was his liver. 755 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:56.000 And yeah, that had been like a real like challenge in his life and it often made him have to go to the hospital and different things like that. 756 00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:05.000 And he was really struggling with with pain and had actually just been to the doctor to get like a proper kind of like MRI. 757 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:12.000 I don't know the technical term of his liver and that was just before the staggedy. 758 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.000 Anyone the staggedy he asked me was like, can you pray for me? 759 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:19.000 This is actually really like, this is really bad. 760 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:21.000 This is much worse than it's ever been. 761 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.000 And I'm feeling like quite scared about it. 762 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:31.000 And we went into a moment and I'd never really like prayed with him before but we prayed and we just asked God would you bring healing? 763 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:36.000 Would you bring healing to this guy's liver? 764 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:44.000 And it was a really powerful moment and felt like the God's presence was really in the room in that moment. 765 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:49.000 But obviously it's like an internal thing so you can't really like see what had happened. 766 00:43:49.000 --> 00:44:00.000 Yeah, I, we kind of go on from there and then like six months later this guy called me up and he's like you you will not believe like what has happened. 767 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:12.000 So basically before before the staggedy he had gone to the doctor to get like a scan and a few like a month after the staggedy and obviously after we prayed. 768 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:21.000 And he got the results back from that scan and it showed that he had he had a tumor in his in his liver which is like seriously bad news. 769 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:26.000 I'm not like a doctor but that's like seriously bad news not a place you can really operate on. 770 00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:32.000 So they were having to be like okay what what's going on here and we're going to need to like monitor this. 771 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:38.000 And so I'd booked him in for like another scan for a few months to see what like happened to this this tumor. 772 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:46.000 Obviously in between those two scans and we had prayed and but we he only found out they had a tumor after we prayed. 773 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:55.000 And then we kind of go down a couple of months and he gets the next scan back and the tumor has completely disappeared. 774 00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:03.000 And he showed me these emails of these doctors being like I can't explain it. 775 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:10.000 The two scans that we have which is your liver one has a tumor and one doesn't and that's like medically impossible. 776 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:27.000 And he knew even though like not following with God he knew that as we prayed God had healed him had removed that tumor from his his his liver and he's like coming to testify to me being like this is what God's done in my life. 777 00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:37.000 And I was I was more surprised than he was probably which shows sometimes I didn't even have like the faith that I just completely blew my mind that God. 778 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:50.000 God was just so kind at that moment and that he is a healing God anyway so I feel like he calls us into participate with him in the things of the kingdom like a friend would. 779 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.000 So that's why I've got a bit of a passion for healing. 780 00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.000 So that was an awesome story. 781 00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:03.000 I like Ben thank you so much for coming on the point and just sharing such wisdom and how God's moved in your life. 782 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:06.000 We're very blessed by it, no choice but audience for two. 783 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.000 Thank you Zarian Zai, I loved being here. 784 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:10.000 That was so good. 785 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:18.000 Guys we unfortunately don't have any more time to chat on this podcast so we hope that you've enjoyed and we hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. 786 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.000 Night whenever you're watching this and we'll join you. 787 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.000 No. 788 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.000 We'll join you. 789 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:28.000 We won't join you but we hope that you join us on our next podcast. 790 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:30.000 Bye God. 791 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:33.000 Bye, what a fitting. 792 00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:35.000 So how do you do that?