WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.360 Hello, welcome back to the way UK podcast. 2 00:00:03.360 --> 00:00:04.440 I'm your host for this episode. 3 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:05.400 My name is Solomon. 4 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:09.440 I'm joined to my left with my co-host Zoe. 5 00:00:09.440 --> 00:00:10.440 Hello. 6 00:00:10.440 --> 00:00:11.960 Oh, oh. 7 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.560 And once again, we are here with our dear friend, 8 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:15.400 Micah Studio. 9 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:16.280 Micah, please say hello. 10 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:17.160 Nice to be there. 11 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:21.000 This is our second episode with Micah. 12 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.000 Our first, we filmed a few hours ago, 13 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:26.520 but we've really encouraged you to go check that out. 14 00:00:26.520 --> 00:00:28.760 We're going to be sort of referencing that a little bit. 15 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:31.120 And there's a lot of good little nuggets of wisdom 16 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:32.960 from Micah himself in that one. 17 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:34.280 So yeah, go check it out. 18 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.600 Remember to like and subscribe. 19 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:39.200 If you're listening on Spotify or Apple Music, 20 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.080 give us a follow, give us a rating. 21 00:00:41.080 --> 00:00:43.760 All of it helps with our sort of global mission 22 00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:46.480 to reach the next generation of young people 23 00:00:46.480 --> 00:00:47.760 with the message of Jesus. 24 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:50.520 So with that said, let's roll the credits. 25 00:00:53.800 --> 00:00:56.360 Micah, in our first episode with you, 26 00:00:56.360 --> 00:00:58.160 we spoke a little bit about your story, 27 00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:01.000 about how you were born in the US, 28 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:03.440 but then you moved to Jordan out 20. 29 00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:07.080 And a question I have that I would love to ask you is, 30 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:10.080 how did being raised in church in the US, 31 00:01:10.080 --> 00:01:13.520 how did your understanding of God shift 32 00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:14.680 and new facets of him? 33 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:15.800 Did you see new facets of him? 34 00:01:15.800 --> 00:01:16.800 When you moved to the Middle East, 35 00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:18.480 things that were revealed about him, 36 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:22.440 that maybe you didn't see as clearly in the US as in Jordan? 37 00:01:22.440 --> 00:01:24.800 Yeah, great question. 38 00:01:25.800 --> 00:01:28.040 And I think probably like all of us, 39 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:33.040 my conception of God was formed through the world I lived in. 40 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:36.200 There's all sorts of technical terms for that, 41 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:37.800 but I think you could say, 42 00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:40.120 my Jesus looked a lot like me. 43 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:43.000 It looked like the way I would either picture 44 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:46.080 the actual actual looks or his demeanor 45 00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:48.320 or the way that his life would have looked 46 00:01:48.320 --> 00:01:49.320 as I read it to the Gospels, 47 00:01:49.320 --> 00:01:51.800 I read myself into the story. 48 00:01:51.800 --> 00:01:53.840 So I think for me, the big thing that changed 49 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.240 was being in the part of the world where he lived. 50 00:01:58.440 --> 00:02:03.440 And seeing the culture that probably I wouldn't have read 51 00:02:04.080 --> 00:02:05.840 into the story before, 52 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:07.120 but then suddenly I'm reading a story, 53 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.520 and I'm like, whoa, what is that saying? 54 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.560 Like here's an example, I was at a dinner once 55 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.680 and it was a dinner for not like a guest of honor. 56 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:21.000 It wasn't like an elder or a politician or anything. 57 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.960 It was like a party for a friend that had been away 58 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:25.400 studying and then to come back. 59 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:27.040 And so all the buddies are around. 60 00:02:27.040 --> 00:02:29.880 And we're all just hamming it up, having a good time. 61 00:02:29.880 --> 00:02:31.960 But the person that organized the dinner, 62 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:36.480 at some point in the meal got all of our attention 63 00:02:36.480 --> 00:02:39.080 and said, hey, our friend has been away. 64 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:41.360 We've missed him, it's so good to be back. 65 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:43.920 And we've gathered tonight because we really want to honor him 66 00:02:43.920 --> 00:02:46.800 and just say, hey, you're really special as we love you. 67 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:48.600 And so here's the cultural thing that they did. 68 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.360 They don't have utensils at a traditional meal 69 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:52.280 like that in that part of the world. 70 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:54.760 There's baskets of bread around the meal. 71 00:02:54.760 --> 00:02:56.400 So this host, this really happens. 72 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.200 This host takes peace of bread 73 00:02:58.200 --> 00:03:00.040 and he dips it into the communal dish of meat 74 00:03:00.040 --> 00:03:02.280 at the center of the table, and he grabs a piece of meat 75 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:03.120 in the bread. 76 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:04.760 And then in front of all of us, he says, 77 00:03:04.760 --> 00:03:07.400 we love you, we honor your really special friend. 78 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.440 And he feeds him in front of all of us. 79 00:03:10.880 --> 00:03:13.760 And right then I was like, holy smokes. 80 00:03:14.880 --> 00:03:17.200 That's John 13. 81 00:03:17.200 --> 00:03:19.120 Jesus having gathered with all the disciples 82 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.320 sitting around the table says to them, 83 00:03:21.320 --> 00:03:23.240 one of you will betray me. 84 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:25.160 I said, who is it, so John leading against Jesus 85 00:03:25.160 --> 00:03:26.000 says, who is it? 86 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:28.640 He says it's the one and to whom I dip the bread into the dish. 87 00:03:29.920 --> 00:03:31.600 And so he takes the bread and he dips the dish 88 00:03:31.600 --> 00:03:32.960 into the dish and he feeds Judas. 89 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:34.680 And all the disciples look at one another 90 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.680 because Jesus says what you do do quickly 91 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.800 and Judas gets up and leaves and the disciples say, 92 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:41.920 well, who is it that will betray him? 93 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:45.680 And you read the story for me as an American. 94 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.720 I read the story of all my life. 95 00:03:47.720 --> 00:03:49.600 I really think, how did they not know? 96 00:03:49.600 --> 00:03:50.600 It was Judas. 97 00:03:50.600 --> 00:03:51.600 He just said that. 98 00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:56.120 This is why because Jesus said to Judas, 99 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:57.960 or Jesus said to John rather, 100 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:00.800 it's the one to whom I dip the bread and the dish. 101 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:02.560 So only John knew that. 102 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:04.680 But then all the other disciples knew 103 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:07.520 is that Jesus feeds Judas and he says, Judas, 104 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:10.880 one of you is going to betray me, but you're my favorite. 105 00:04:10.880 --> 00:04:11.640 Interesting. 106 00:04:11.640 --> 00:04:14.080 And so all the disciples understood was 107 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:15.640 someone's going to betray Jesus. 108 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:18.120 But he loves Judas the most, so it's probably not him. 109 00:04:19.760 --> 00:04:23.840 So suddenly it's like the Jesus of scripture 110 00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:28.240 and the Jesus that I'm understanding is like, 111 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:31.920 I mean, just blowing my mind, like a scene. 112 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:33.880 Oh, he's really a man that really lived 113 00:04:33.880 --> 00:04:36.480 at a certain time to teach us certain things. 114 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:39.440 Like what do you do with your betrayer? 115 00:04:39.440 --> 00:04:40.960 Do you set some boundaries around him? 116 00:04:40.960 --> 00:04:43.000 No, he says, no, you're going to betray me. 117 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.600 You're actually to the point of death. 118 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:46.800 But before you do that, I want to know one thing. 119 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:48.320 You've always been my favorite. 120 00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:51.680 I knew you could have done really something with your life. 121 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:52.960 Wow. 122 00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:53.960 Wow. 123 00:04:53.960 --> 00:04:54.960 Wow. 124 00:04:54.960 --> 00:04:58.600 And Micah, I know from spending time with you. 125 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.720 And I've known you for a while now a few years. 126 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:05.680 And I know that your sort of stories in Jordan, 127 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:09.040 there was a lot of hardship and a lot of sort of being 128 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.840 around suffering in the church. 129 00:05:11.840 --> 00:05:14.440 And I'm quite interested to know 130 00:05:14.440 --> 00:05:20.160 how did being around these things impact your faith personally. 131 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.120 Yeah, I think it impacted me because it was certainly 132 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:27.280 not something I had experienced before I lived in the Middle 133 00:05:27.280 --> 00:05:29.280 East. 134 00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:31.200 I think I looked pretty comfortable. 135 00:05:31.200 --> 00:05:34.680 Not to meet on a Sunday, meet any day of the week. 136 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:36.520 You're not too worried about what might happen. 137 00:05:36.520 --> 00:05:43.320 And pretty quickly, for me, I had met a young guy 138 00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:45.600 that had recently come to faith. 139 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:49.360 And his family wasn't very pleased with that. 140 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:54.160 In the long story short, he ends up in prison. 141 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:55.680 He goes to prison. 142 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:57.920 And I'm there to help him when he gets out. 143 00:05:57.920 --> 00:05:59.800 I meet him as he's getting out. 144 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:02.680 And he ends up going to prison three times, 145 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:09.960 and during horrible abuse and torture and all these things. 146 00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:14.960 And he's not even a year old in the faith. 147 00:06:14.960 --> 00:06:18.240 Yeah, and I was really jarring for me, 148 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.160 because I don't know what I would do. 149 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:26.920 And trying to figure out how to walk with someone 150 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:29.080 through that, Romans talks about it. 151 00:06:29.080 --> 00:06:32.720 Paul talks about those who have been in prison for their faith 152 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:34.640 and those who have cared for them 153 00:06:34.640 --> 00:06:37.880 and their families while they were in prison, 154 00:06:37.880 --> 00:06:39.520 that there is this mutual suffering. 155 00:06:39.520 --> 00:06:41.760 Not to say that my suffering was anything like kids. 156 00:06:41.760 --> 00:06:43.560 It certainly wasn't. 157 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:48.480 However, there was a degree of suffering involved 158 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.200 in sharing that experience together, walking through that. 159 00:06:51.200 --> 00:06:55.520 And it was incredibly, I don't know, 160 00:06:55.520 --> 00:06:57.960 formative doesn't sound like the right word. 161 00:06:57.960 --> 00:07:00.360 I don't know if you've ever experienced anything like that. 162 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.720 I had never experienced anything like that. 163 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.840 And it was new to me. 164 00:07:05.840 --> 00:07:08.840 Okay, so the message I often heard was, 165 00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:11.520 follow Jesus, he's going to make your life great, 166 00:07:11.520 --> 00:07:14.160 and he's going to help you live your passion in your dreams. 167 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:16.120 You're thinking, that's great, I love that Jesus. 168 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:18.000 Like, I'll give me that debit card. 169 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.640 That's the Jesus I want. 170 00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:22.200 Well, what happens when you follow Jesus in it? 171 00:07:22.200 --> 00:07:23.480 Ruins your life. 172 00:07:24.520 --> 00:07:25.960 What happens when you say yes to Jesus 173 00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:28.040 and within three months you're in prison? 174 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.720 That was a new Jesus that I hadn't experienced yet. 175 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.560 And that kind of makes me think, 176 00:07:35.840 --> 00:07:40.480 maybe you may be having an answer to this, 177 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:47.480 is how does one experience such fear, such loss 178 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.360 and witness such a high cost? 179 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:55.520 I mean, in the West, we take that for granted, how easy it is. 180 00:07:55.520 --> 00:08:00.520 But how do you take in all of that 181 00:08:00.520 --> 00:08:05.520 and still truly be rooted in God and say, God is good? 182 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:12.240 And I would like to just ask you that question 183 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:17.240 of how have you seen people sort of in this situation be? 184 00:08:17.760 --> 00:08:20.520 Yeah, I mean, I have to be totally honest. 185 00:08:20.520 --> 00:08:24.560 I've watched people go through persecution 186 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:28.560 and come out having lost their faith as well. 187 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.080 And I have never judged them 188 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:33.080 because I don't know if I would be in a different position. 189 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:34.760 I've never had to endure some of the things 190 00:08:34.760 --> 00:08:37.000 that they've had to endure, the physical and emotional 191 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.840 and all sorts of abuse that might happen 192 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:41.960 to Christians all around the world. 193 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:44.680 And so it's not like every single time 194 00:08:44.680 --> 00:08:47.280 someone comes out of prison and says, God is good. 195 00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:49.120 But on the word of music, usually it's not that. 196 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:53.840 It's usually many, many tears and sleepless nights 197 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:58.400 and agony and and and sometimes 198 00:08:58.400 --> 00:09:00.200 there's the supernatural stories as well 199 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:01.600 of God was with me. 200 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:06.600 I was never concerned and I've seen both. 201 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:12.320 And I have seen one guy I remember, one friend, 202 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:18.120 he was put under house arrest 203 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.240 and they were trying to put him under pressure 204 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:23.640 and they weren't allowing him to get food. 205 00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:25.120 And so he was hungry 206 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.840 and I was able to go and visit him. 207 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:34.480 And he said, he said, I dreamt all night 208 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:38.880 that angels were coming into my room and giving me food. 209 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:40.960 And I said, well, praise God. 210 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:43.240 He said, no, he said, then I woke up 211 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.360 and there were still bits of food in my mouth 212 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.120 and I haven't been hungry all day. 213 00:09:49.640 --> 00:09:50.640 That was my reaction. 214 00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:52.240 I said, I don't know. 215 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:53.080 I don't know. 216 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:55.920 That's for that, that's, whoa. 217 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:58.080 We haven't the Lord sustaining him. 218 00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:59.880 And in a real tangible way. 219 00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:03.000 And then I have had, I've also walked with people 220 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:08.000 who have lost everything and and and really wondered 221 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:10.480 where was God in that? 222 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:12.240 And isn't this worth it? 223 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:16.400 And it's been a much more difficult journey. 224 00:10:16.400 --> 00:10:18.280 And some of them have still come out and said, yes, 225 00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:21.240 generally they they come out saying this 226 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.440 from Philippians that I might know him 227 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:26.560 and the power of his resurrection 228 00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:29.080 and the fellowship of his sufferings. 229 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:31.120 And if Christ suffered and died, 230 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.520 then who am I to be better than him? 231 00:10:33.520 --> 00:10:38.040 And a real humble answer in choosing 232 00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:39.880 to endure for the sake of Jesus. 233 00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:42.080 But I can't say every single time it's miraculous, 234 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:44.040 every time he takes the pain away. 235 00:10:44.040 --> 00:10:45.800 That's not what I've watched. 236 00:10:45.800 --> 00:10:48.080 I've watched families take years to recover 237 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.360 from their father being thrown in prison 238 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:51.640 and taken away from them. 239 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:56.800 I suppose it. 240 00:10:58.400 --> 00:10:59.240 I suppose it. 241 00:11:00.160 --> 00:11:01.840 So I would say that I wasn't going to, 242 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:03.440 now I am tearing up a little bit. 243 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:04.600 You're not. 244 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:05.600 Bear with, bear with. 245 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.200 If you haven't, feel free to ask a question. 246 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:09.520 I need to compose myself a little bit. 247 00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:10.800 It's okay, you're glad to cry. 248 00:11:10.800 --> 00:11:12.920 No, I know. 249 00:11:12.920 --> 00:11:15.040 Lots of people that we speak to 250 00:11:15.040 --> 00:11:18.520 what that don't follow Jesus yet, 251 00:11:18.520 --> 00:11:22.800 it's the obstacle of suffering. 252 00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:27.560 Usually that own prevents them from following God. 253 00:11:27.560 --> 00:11:31.800 And it's like that question of why is the world so broken? 254 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:33.160 Why is there war? 255 00:11:33.160 --> 00:11:34.040 Why is there famine? 256 00:11:34.040 --> 00:11:34.920 Why is there sickness? 257 00:11:34.920 --> 00:11:35.920 Why is there pain? 258 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:38.880 If there's this God that is so, 259 00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:42.520 that is only benevolent, only present, only, 260 00:11:42.520 --> 00:11:44.760 omniscient, like all of these things, 261 00:11:44.760 --> 00:11:48.040 how I like, that's always the thing it's suffering. 262 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:50.920 And I wondered if you could speak into that 263 00:11:50.920 --> 00:11:52.960 because I think it's the biggest question 264 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:55.800 that all of humanity could have. 265 00:11:55.800 --> 00:11:58.560 And I don't think we will ever really get an answer 266 00:11:58.560 --> 00:12:03.480 that will be satisfied with on this side of eternity. 267 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.600 But, sorry, I know that's a big question to throw away. 268 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:09.600 But I wondered if you could maybe speak into that 269 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:14.120 or for people who maybe even are wrestling with that now. 270 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:18.360 What would you say, having literally seen people 271 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.360 go through awful, awful times of persecution? 272 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:25.800 Yeah. 273 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:26.800 Yeah. 274 00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:27.320 Sorry. 275 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:28.640 I wish I had a better answer. 276 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:30.320 I mean, there's probably other podcasts 277 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:34.120 that you could listen to for more concise philosophical answers 278 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:35.480 on that question. 279 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:39.000 But it is, it is often the most pressing question to people. 280 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:42.000 How could God allow this? 281 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:42.920 Yeah. 282 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:46.440 And I won't try to answer that exactly 283 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:48.200 because I won't do it very well. 284 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:51.200 I will say in my own life where I have found comfort 285 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.520 to my own questions, similar to that, 286 00:12:54.520 --> 00:12:58.280 have always been in the incarnation of Jesus, 287 00:12:58.280 --> 00:13:03.280 that Jesus as God did not remove himself from the suffering 288 00:13:06.400 --> 00:13:08.480 to watch us endure it. 289 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:09.920 He did the opposite. 290 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.440 He actually took on flesh to suffer with us 291 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.840 and ultimately deliver us from the evil of the world 292 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:18.360 and he has overcome the world. 293 00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:24.800 And so for me, the question of how and why, 294 00:13:24.800 --> 00:13:29.160 I don't know, I can't find all of those answers right now. 295 00:13:29.160 --> 00:13:30.240 Yeah. 296 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.520 There is a great comfort in that Jesus, 297 00:13:32.520 --> 00:13:34.600 as the book of Hebrews says, 298 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:38.440 we have a high priest who sympathizes with us, 299 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:42.280 who having endured all things, he overcame, 300 00:13:43.280 --> 00:13:45.960 so that we also could then join him in that. 301 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:47.760 That's for me the great comfort. 302 00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:52.760 And sometimes it's like I said, sometimes it's because 303 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:57.320 well, he delivered us and wow, it's miracle. 304 00:13:57.320 --> 00:13:59.920 And sometimes it's like, no, it was really awful. 305 00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:01.480 That was such a terrible experience. 306 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:04.400 And I hope no one ever in my worst enemy has to relive that. 307 00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:06.760 But I didn't feel alone. 308 00:14:07.760 --> 00:14:09.080 And now I'm through it. 309 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:11.840 It's a great challenge. 310 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:13.640 How much of the New Testament says things? 311 00:14:13.640 --> 00:14:17.280 Like we glory in our sufferings, Romans five, 312 00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:20.000 knowing that suffering leads to perseverance, 313 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:21.520 persevere to character and character. 314 00:14:21.520 --> 00:14:23.520 I'm like, well, okay, I think I might have missed 315 00:14:23.520 --> 00:14:24.840 the first step myself. 316 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:28.240 I'm very interested in the hope, 317 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.320 not so much in the glory and sufferings. 318 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.080 So there's so many verses like that. 319 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:33.920 It's true. 320 00:14:34.160 --> 00:14:35.160 I don't know. 321 00:14:35.160 --> 00:14:36.000 I don't know. 322 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.280 Have you learned how to glory in sufferings yet? 323 00:14:38.280 --> 00:14:39.440 No, I don't. 324 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:40.680 Not yet. 325 00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:41.520 This is sorry. 326 00:14:41.520 --> 00:14:43.000 Sorry to throw such a big question. 327 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:43.840 Oh, is it? 328 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:44.680 But we're all asking it. 329 00:14:44.680 --> 00:14:46.320 Yeah, like everyone's asking it. 330 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.480 Mark, I have what you're sharing about suffering. 331 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.200 How does that speak into sort of our culture 332 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:55.960 in the West where we feel almost so far from it? 333 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.640 You know, where it feels like a distant bad dream, 334 00:14:58.640 --> 00:15:01.640 sometimes even a bad dream that is over. 335 00:15:01.640 --> 00:15:03.360 It's almost like we don't even have any attention 336 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:04.440 of it a lot of the time. 337 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.200 But how does that speak into this sort of? 338 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:08.040 Yeah. 339 00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:11.960 Well, I think it doesn't speak into our culture. 340 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:12.880 That's the problem. 341 00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:16.160 It's like, it is completely counter-culture. 342 00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:19.800 So our culture is like, who said when I just saw someone 343 00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:21.440 saying this thing, they're like, 344 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.600 they had this whole piece on like the merits 345 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.520 of following your heart and like, 346 00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:31.280 if you really want like the true good life, 347 00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:32.280 like following your heart, 348 00:15:32.280 --> 00:15:34.120 following the things that are in your heart, 349 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:35.440 and you know, it'll lead to your destiny. 350 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:38.400 I was like, listen, maybe that works for you. 351 00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:40.400 When I'm in traffic and people are cutting me off, 352 00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:42.640 my heart like would lead me to prison. 353 00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:44.360 That's where I would go. 354 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:49.360 So I'm not sure where following my heart is going to take me. 355 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.600 And maybe he's in a different position than I am. 356 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:55.600 But that is like really the age we live in, 357 00:15:55.600 --> 00:16:00.600 where we live in an age that tells us 358 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.120 that our destiny, our ultimate purpose, 359 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.880 if we're thinking about like the higher calling, 360 00:16:07.880 --> 00:16:10.920 it's found where within us, 361 00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:13.920 and it is found in our own joy and delight 362 00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:15.080 and our happiness. 363 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:16.000 It doesn't matter what you do, 364 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.520 as long as you're happy, all those things. 365 00:16:18.520 --> 00:16:19.480 Okay, fine. 366 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.160 However, if you're gonna say that, that's fine. 367 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.680 But do not say that and say you're a Christian 368 00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:30.280 because the gospels are certainly not Jesus saying that. 369 00:16:30.280 --> 00:16:31.360 He's saying, though, 370 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.520 hey, do you want to be my disciples? 371 00:16:33.520 --> 00:16:35.400 Pick up your cross and die daily. 372 00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:38.160 You're like, well, where's the happiness there? 373 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:40.800 Cause I was, I was really interested earlier. 374 00:16:40.800 --> 00:16:42.880 I hope, where is it? 375 00:16:42.880 --> 00:16:45.240 I mean, how many times throughout the text 376 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.440 does he talk about like if you really want to, 377 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.120 if you want to lose, if you want to find your life, lose it. 378 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:53.160 If you want to find something greater than you, 379 00:16:53.160 --> 00:16:54.720 and I think about the rich young ruler, 380 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:56.480 the young man that comes and says, 381 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:58.840 what do I need to do to be saved? 382 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:00.560 And Jesus says, keep the life. 383 00:17:00.560 --> 00:17:01.400 He says, I do all that. 384 00:17:01.400 --> 00:17:02.480 Okay, then here's really what it is. 385 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.560 If you want to be perfect, you have a lot of money. 386 00:17:04.560 --> 00:17:06.800 Give it to the poor and come follow me. 387 00:17:06.800 --> 00:17:08.160 And the young man left sad 388 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.480 because he had great wealth and didn't want to give it up. 389 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.000 It's like Jesus' whole message is, 390 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.240 not be poor, don't be wealthy. 391 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:17.080 That's not it. 392 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.560 But whatever, whatever it is that grips your heart, 393 00:17:20.560 --> 00:17:23.480 that's the thing that can lose it and follow me. 394 00:17:24.320 --> 00:17:26.480 And that is so counter-cultures, which is your question. 395 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:27.520 How does that speak to your culture? 396 00:17:27.520 --> 00:17:29.800 It does not speak to our culture. 397 00:17:29.800 --> 00:17:32.720 Our culture tells us to live opposite 398 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:34.560 the way that Christ tells us to. 399 00:17:34.560 --> 00:17:37.240 So that when something, so I remember this, 400 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:39.960 some came into some trouble, 401 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:44.240 some a certain extremist group had to come 402 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.640 and was threatening us and put us in danger. 403 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:50.560 Yeah, I won't go into the story, 404 00:17:50.560 --> 00:17:53.280 but there were some other people in my life that said, 405 00:17:53.280 --> 00:17:55.880 but don't you think it's time that you should move? 406 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.120 Like if this is happening, and I thought, no. 407 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.200 It's probably the sign that it's working. 408 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:05.440 Yeah, so it didn't even cross your mind to leave. 409 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.920 Was that, no, I'm not sure. 410 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:08.880 It crossed my mind to leave the angry people 411 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.880 that wanted me to die. 412 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:12.600 I would not interested in staying with them. 413 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:20.080 But it didn't cross my mind that that circumstance was not, 414 00:18:20.080 --> 00:18:22.800 how to say, this is the thought that didn't enter my mind. 415 00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:24.760 Because that circumstance was dangerous or bad, 416 00:18:24.760 --> 00:18:26.600 this must not be God's will. 417 00:18:26.600 --> 00:18:28.200 That didn't enter my mind. 418 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.000 This idea that like, well, God's will for me 419 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.400 is always safe and perfect. 420 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:32.880 I'm like, I don't know. 421 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.240 I read all four gospels and all of them end with Jesus 422 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.240 in a really precarious situation 423 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:40.080 that seemed like the Father's will. 424 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:43.320 And Jesus said, if you're no servant 425 00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:46.000 as greater than as master, no student greater than as teacher. 426 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:51.000 So did you see you went there expecting, expecting trouble, I suppose? 427 00:18:52.280 --> 00:18:53.760 That makes it sound way cooler. 428 00:18:53.760 --> 00:18:57.800 Way cooler than it actually was. 429 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.360 No, I went, I don't know even if I went expecting, 430 00:19:02.360 --> 00:19:06.400 but I found myself in a place anticipating 431 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.280 that if I was truly following God in my life, 432 00:19:10.280 --> 00:19:14.800 it would mean that at some time, and in some places, 433 00:19:14.800 --> 00:19:18.000 I'd be losing myself, whether that's my interests 434 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.160 or my hobbies or my passions or actual physical danger. 435 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.640 That is part of the process of saying, 436 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:26.880 my life is not my own. 437 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.160 I don't live for myself. 438 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:29.320 I live for Jesus. 439 00:19:29.320 --> 00:19:30.400 Now, I'm not trying to say that 440 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:33.840 because I'm sort of guru, like I achieved some higher level. 441 00:19:33.840 --> 00:19:35.480 I don't mean that. 442 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:37.600 But I mean, that's what I'm aiming for. 443 00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:39.680 I'm aiming for saying, I don't want to live for myself. 444 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:41.640 I want to live for him. 445 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:46.240 And he modeled a way of immense self-sacrifice 446 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:50.800 that is the reason we wear crosses is like a reminder. 447 00:19:50.800 --> 00:19:52.560 It's actually, no, now it's a style thing, 448 00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:54.680 but it's meant to be a reminder of like, 449 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:57.440 hey, the way of my life is the way of the cross. 450 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.640 And I wear this as an emblem of saying, 451 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:05.840 I must choose self-sacrifice daily in a culture that tells me 452 00:20:05.840 --> 00:20:10.920 to choose my preferences and my comfort and my privilege 453 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:11.880 and all of this. 454 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:12.880 Yeah. 455 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.160 As you mentioned, living for Jesus, 456 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:22.880 and you spent your entire 20s in mission, right? 457 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.680 So your entire 20s was in the Middle East. 458 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:26.880 And so I'm interested. 459 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:28.960 I know there's a lot of people out there that would be like, 460 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.200 yeah, I want to be a missionary. 461 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.640 I want to go out and do all the things you're saying. 462 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.040 It's exactly what I want to do. 463 00:20:35.080 --> 00:20:37.080 I'm going to wait till I'm a little older. 464 00:20:37.080 --> 00:20:40.160 And I'm wondering, was that ever a question for you 465 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.840 to actually go, hang, I'm going to hang five for a second 466 00:20:42.840 --> 00:20:44.760 and go when I'm later in life? 467 00:20:44.760 --> 00:20:45.680 Was that ever a question for you? 468 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.000 Or was it just, I'm going to go? 469 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.720 No, but what I could see, 470 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:51.000 it might be a question for somebody else, 471 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:52.680 but I didn't have a lot of prospects. 472 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:53.520 I saw it. 473 00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:54.360 Right. 474 00:20:54.360 --> 00:21:02.000 I think I also had a mentor that shared this verse with me 475 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.680 out of Jeremiah, or maybe it's lamentations. 476 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:05.840 I don't remember. 477 00:21:05.840 --> 00:21:09.960 It says, it's good for the young man to bear the yoke 478 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:11.800 in his youth. 479 00:21:11.800 --> 00:21:12.640 Yeah. 480 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:15.040 So this idea of, it's good for you as a young person 481 00:21:15.040 --> 00:21:16.800 to do the harder thing. 482 00:21:16.800 --> 00:21:18.440 So you've got a couple of options in front of you, 483 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:19.760 which one's going to be more difficult, 484 00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:21.360 which one's going to be more taxing, 485 00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:25.520 more sacrificial, that's going to cost more in your life. 486 00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:26.360 Do that one. 487 00:21:26.360 --> 00:21:28.040 Do that one while you've got the energy while you're young. 488 00:21:28.040 --> 00:21:29.480 You'll learn more from it. 489 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:31.400 That was one of my mentors advised to me. 490 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:32.760 And so I always thought of that. 491 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:34.960 And I'm so grateful I did. 492 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.880 Because I think there's, if they, I don't know. 493 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.160 I don't know what to say that I don't regret a thing. 494 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.240 I've never thought, gosh, my 20s, I could 495 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.200 have spent in Ibiza. 496 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:56.400 No, and my 20s, for me, were sent in largely an obscurity. 497 00:21:57.360 --> 00:22:03.200 And yet there are probably a few families out there who, 498 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:05.760 when they tell the story to their kids of how they came to faith, 499 00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:08.040 they'll say, there is this weird American guy 500 00:22:08.040 --> 00:22:12.280 that spoke our language with a really bad accent. 501 00:22:12.280 --> 00:22:15.240 And God sent him to tell us about him. 502 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.600 And we've followed him ever since. 503 00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:22.240 And they go, great, that was a good use of my time. 504 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:23.840 Once again, you've got me. 505 00:22:24.840 --> 00:22:29.880 For those who don't know, I was with Micah in the Middle East 506 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:31.120 for a while. 507 00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:33.040 And that's how we know each other. 508 00:22:33.040 --> 00:22:39.400 My time there with you really shifted how I approach faith 509 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:40.400 and suffering. 510 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:44.160 And all of a sudden, it wasn't an abstract idea that was distant. 511 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.160 I said it was like this. 512 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.960 I think that people don't even pay attention to. 513 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:50.880 And then all of a sudden, I was the wear of it. 514 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:53.640 And it was like, I think that people don't even pay attention to. 515 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.760 And it re-adjusted the lens at which I see God. 516 00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:01.480 And I see my walk with God. 517 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:05.840 And I don't know how to articulate it other than this. 518 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:12.800 It wasn't just about the hype, excitement, fun anymore. 519 00:23:12.800 --> 00:23:17.480 I think there was a reverence for an a seriousness around it. 520 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:19.360 And at the same time, I actually think, 521 00:23:19.360 --> 00:23:22.560 and this is a strange one because I don't understand 522 00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:24.520 the correlation here for me. 523 00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:26.840 I don't understand the correlation between these two things. 524 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:30.640 But it actually helped me understand the fear of the Lord. 525 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.960 And I guess it's around awe and reverence, isn't it? 526 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.760 But I just found myself having to step closer to God anyway 527 00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:41.200 in a way that I didn't quite have to over in the West. 528 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.480 It was going over there. 529 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:50.000 There was immediately an option to have to close in on God 530 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:51.360 and find God in that quiet. 531 00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:52.920 Like you said, it was lonely. 532 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.120 And there was a, it's how do you find God in that quiet? 533 00:23:57.120 --> 00:23:59.240 Because it's very easy when everyone around you 534 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:03.040 is as a very, come on. 535 00:24:03.040 --> 00:24:04.080 How's it going today, man? 536 00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:04.920 Amazing. 537 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:06.440 Let's go praise God, right? 538 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:08.000 But then that's great. 539 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:09.920 That's really cool that you have that community. 540 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:11.040 But when you don't have that community, 541 00:24:11.040 --> 00:24:12.360 where do you find God? 542 00:24:12.360 --> 00:24:15.480 And that in itself, and I've gone off topic here, 543 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:16.480 and now we're talking about something. 544 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.160 But Zoe, you have anything to add? 545 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:24.160 I've never been like, I've never been in missionary 546 00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:27.440 or I've never gone abroad with the intent 547 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:32.200 to share the gospel and or seen persecution, 548 00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:35.000 like what you guys have seen. 549 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.400 So it's really interesting then hearing what you're saying. 550 00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:41.920 And I mean, reading the Bible and seeing the persecution 551 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:46.200 that Jesus endured and that the apostles endured themselves 552 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.560 to then the context that I live in and have grown up in, 553 00:24:50.560 --> 00:24:54.600 which is have grown up and sorry. 554 00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:59.640 It's like there's just, there's no physical, 555 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.800 well, I've not seen any physical persecution 556 00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:08.760 and never ever to the extent of what you were saying like. 557 00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:13.440 So it's just interesting reading this verse, Romans 5, 558 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.280 3, not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings 559 00:25:16.280 --> 00:25:18.400 because we know that suffering produces perseverance 560 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.800 of us for perseverance, character and character hope. 561 00:25:21.800 --> 00:25:27.040 It's like, wow, well, where, I don't know, 562 00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:30.880 it's just like, where is that coming from in my life? 563 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:32.520 Where, where am I? 564 00:25:32.520 --> 00:25:36.120 It's just like, what does that look like for me? 565 00:25:36.120 --> 00:25:40.600 And I don't know if I know that suffering can look like more 566 00:25:40.600 --> 00:25:41.480 than one thing. 567 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:47.400 I know it doesn't always have to look like a really intense 568 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.760 persecution from different, like, 569 00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:51.360 maybe it's not even external. 570 00:25:51.360 --> 00:25:53.360 Yeah, it's something within. 571 00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:54.360 Yeah. 572 00:25:54.360 --> 00:26:02.320 And I think that is more of what I've seen is internal things. 573 00:26:02.320 --> 00:26:06.040 But, and I know it's not probably shouldn't 574 00:26:06.040 --> 00:26:07.640 compare your sufferings to other people 575 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:08.800 because it's just never good. 576 00:26:08.800 --> 00:26:13.280 But, so I think mine is just like very different. 577 00:26:13.280 --> 00:26:15.680 And it makes me feel like I'm like, oh, I shouldn't, 578 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.600 that's like, I shouldn't even speak on that 579 00:26:18.600 --> 00:26:20.400 because it's nothing in comparison to that. 580 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.920 But I guess that's not true. 581 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:25.640 It's, it's just different. 582 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:26.160 Yeah. 583 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:27.320 And that's okay. 584 00:26:27.320 --> 00:26:30.240 It makes me think of, very back to the original question 585 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:36.840 you asked, how does this shape, how does shape my faith? 586 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:41.360 And I like what you said when you really can't compare 587 00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:45.080 once the other, but it also, it does, 588 00:26:45.080 --> 00:26:48.400 like what we suffer in our life takes different forms. 589 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:50.520 And it doesn't matter the form it takes, 590 00:26:50.520 --> 00:26:54.680 what matters is that God uses it to form us. 591 00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:58.080 And that's why Paul is saying, we glory in this 592 00:26:58.080 --> 00:27:00.600 because at the end of it, hope does not disappoint 593 00:27:00.600 --> 00:27:03.040 because the father, the Holy Spirit 594 00:27:03.040 --> 00:27:05.040 pours out the love of the Father into our hearts. 595 00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:07.200 That's what verse five says. 596 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.600 So this idea of like whatever it is, if it's internal, 597 00:27:10.600 --> 00:27:12.760 maybe I'm, it was a health struggle. 598 00:27:12.760 --> 00:27:14.160 Maybe it's a mental health struggle. 599 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:15.480 Maybe it's something in my family. 600 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.480 Maybe it's something as extreme as religious persecution. 601 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:23.960 But God is in this forming me to look more like Jesus. 602 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:27.400 I know this man, I won't share too many details 603 00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:29.240 because he still works them at least. 604 00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:33.400 But some years ago where he was living was arrested. 605 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:34.600 It was horrible. 606 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.200 It was a horrible time. 607 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:37.000 He was arrested. 608 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:37.880 His wife was arrested. 609 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:39.600 The two kids were left at home alone 610 00:27:39.600 --> 00:27:41.720 until someone found out they'd been arrested. 611 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:43.360 They were able to get the kid safe. 612 00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:45.280 And then after a few days, the wife was released. 613 00:27:45.280 --> 00:27:48.000 They didn't do anything atrocious to her. 614 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.880 Praise God, but he was kept in prison for some time. 615 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:54.160 And so every day we're praying, we're fasting. 616 00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:55.360 Lord, release him, release him. 617 00:27:55.360 --> 00:27:57.040 We knew him and really we had a lot of love 618 00:27:57.040 --> 00:27:58.600 and respect for him. 619 00:27:58.600 --> 00:28:00.760 And he wasn't getting released. 620 00:28:00.760 --> 00:28:01.720 He wasn't getting released. 621 00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:03.360 And the country's in was really volatile. 622 00:28:03.360 --> 00:28:06.040 He didn't even have a government. 623 00:28:06.040 --> 00:28:09.480 And so we really didn't know what was happening to him. 624 00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.440 And then all of a sudden, after some weeks, we get word. 625 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:13.720 He's been released. 626 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:16.720 And they called from the border. 627 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:18.280 He was trying to leave the country 628 00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:19.680 and someone was able to help him. 629 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:26.000 And the next day he shows up at our church meeting. 630 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.240 I wasn't there. 631 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.760 I heard about it later from my friends who were there. 632 00:28:30.760 --> 00:28:32.960 And everyone is in tears because they're so happy 633 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.400 to see him. 634 00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:36.880 And they didn't expect anything of him. 635 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:38.120 And they didn't expect him to be there. 636 00:28:38.120 --> 00:28:39.800 But he just was so happy to be released. 637 00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:41.160 He wanted to see everyone. 638 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.480 He begins to tell some of his stories, 639 00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.320 went up to the front and began to tell what happened. 640 00:28:44.320 --> 00:28:46.560 He said, they would chain me to the chair. 641 00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:48.920 He said, one day they chained me to the chair. 642 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:53.000 And they told me they were going to beat me 643 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:54.400 until I couldn't walk. 644 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:57.000 And then when I couldn't walk, I would stop. 645 00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:58.680 That they would stop. 646 00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.920 He said, they took big electric cords 647 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:03.640 and we're whipping his legs. 648 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:05.360 And they'd unchain him and stand him up and say, 649 00:29:05.360 --> 00:29:07.520 walk, and if he could walk, they'd put him back and do it again. 650 00:29:07.520 --> 00:29:08.840 They'd do it over and over again. 651 00:29:08.840 --> 00:29:10.440 And he didn't know what to do because he said, 652 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:13.960 he said, I was sitting there and I couldn't feel anything. 653 00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:15.480 He said, it didn't hurt. 654 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:16.560 He said, every time I stood up, 655 00:29:16.560 --> 00:29:18.000 I had full strength in my legs. 656 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.280 And he said, I don't know what's happening. 657 00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:20.480 He said, so I decided to fake it. 658 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.200 So I started crying and screaming. 659 00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:24.200 And then I just laid on the floor until they dragged me 660 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:25.040 into my room. 661 00:29:25.040 --> 00:29:26.680 And he said, and I just slept all night. 662 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.520 He said, I woke up and he said, I didn't even have a bruise. 663 00:29:30.520 --> 00:29:36.640 And then he said this, he goes, he goes, I'm so grateful. 664 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.320 He said, life for us is like an oven where God 665 00:29:41.320 --> 00:29:43.440 has put the ingredients inside of us. 666 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.760 And he's put us in the heat of life 667 00:29:45.760 --> 00:29:49.360 to make the exact recipe of delicious treats 668 00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:52.080 that he wants to serve to the world. 669 00:29:52.080 --> 00:29:58.240 He said, but for me, God gave me a microwave. 670 00:29:58.240 --> 00:29:59.920 I loved that. 671 00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:02.680 God gave me a microwave. 672 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:03.480 But he got it. 673 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:04.160 He understood. 674 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:05.160 He said, it was awful. 675 00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:06.960 I don't ever want to live through that again. 676 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.000 He said, but I understood what God did in me in those weeks. 677 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.440 He said, it would have taken years outside of that 678 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:16.400 to know him and to become like him from to transform me. 679 00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:20.720 Oh, it's so inspiring that he had that expectation, 680 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:25.280 that revelation, that understanding of God's ways, 681 00:30:25.280 --> 00:30:28.000 that in the hard things, he doesn't forsake us. 682 00:30:28.040 --> 00:30:31.000 He's with us and making us more like him. 683 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.400 That's why we rejoice, say, Lord, thank you. 684 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:34.680 If it's a good thing, thank you. 685 00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:35.880 But if it's a bad thing, thank you, 686 00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:38.840 because you're making me more like you. 687 00:30:38.840 --> 00:30:39.840 I love that. 688 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.480 Just shows this verse. 689 00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:47.920 Literally, his suffering produced perseverance, 690 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.880 perseverance, character, character, hope. 691 00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:54.200 So that is amazing to have that literal comparison. 692 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:57.840 But what are you up to now? 693 00:30:57.840 --> 00:31:00.200 You've had this incredible life 694 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:01.480 where you've been living abroad 695 00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:03.560 and still are living abroad. 696 00:31:03.560 --> 00:31:06.160 But what does life look like for you now? 697 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:07.520 What are you doing? 698 00:31:07.520 --> 00:31:10.240 Just following my heart and I live my dreams. 699 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.360 That's what I'm going to do. 700 00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:14.880 Getting to road rage is good. 701 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.840 No, we live in Cyprus now. 702 00:31:17.840 --> 00:31:22.120 We moved there just almost three years ago and love it. 703 00:31:22.120 --> 00:31:25.240 My wife and I get to be a part of leading community 704 00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:28.400 of believers there, reaching out across the country. 705 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.320 And I also work with a missions organization 706 00:31:31.320 --> 00:31:32.800 that's around the world. 707 00:31:32.800 --> 00:31:35.480 But then locally in Cyprus, I work with the, 708 00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:37.320 it's called the Cyprus Evangelical Alliance. 709 00:31:37.320 --> 00:31:39.440 And we work with the churches across the country, 710 00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:41.480 strengthening them, see strong churches 711 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:43.880 and strong believers reach the nation. 712 00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:44.720 So it's real treat. 713 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.640 We've got three kids that are just the joy in my life. 714 00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.000 And get to spend a lot of time with them 715 00:31:49.040 --> 00:31:52.760 and with our friends and with friends that are our neighbors 716 00:31:52.760 --> 00:31:55.200 and other people we live with who don't know Jesus. 717 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.240 But we genuinely get to do life with them. 718 00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:58.800 And it's a real treat. 719 00:31:58.800 --> 00:32:02.920 So I just feel immensely blessed with the life God has given me. 720 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:06.280 Could never have imagined that I would be 721 00:32:06.280 --> 00:32:09.280 in the places I am or have been in the places I've been in. 722 00:32:09.280 --> 00:32:12.320 But I'm so grateful that God is the good shepherd 723 00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:15.840 that leads us and has and writes a story in our lives 724 00:32:15.840 --> 00:32:18.440 that we never could come up with on our own. 725 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:19.280 It was a real joy. 726 00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:21.120 So come and visit, come and see Cyprus. 727 00:32:21.120 --> 00:32:22.080 Yes. 728 00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:23.680 Well, I would love to do that. 729 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:24.520 Yeah. 730 00:32:24.520 --> 00:32:25.360 That is incredible. 731 00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:26.200 I'm planning to. 732 00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:27.200 I'm planning to do it. 733 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:28.040 I'm planning to do it. 734 00:32:28.040 --> 00:32:28.880 I'm planning to do it. 735 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:30.360 I'm planning to do it. 736 00:32:30.360 --> 00:32:34.520 Micah, thank you so much for giving us not just one, 737 00:32:34.520 --> 00:32:36.680 but two episodes. 738 00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:37.960 We have loved having you here. 739 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.440 You have so much to share. 740 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:42.960 And it has been our privilege to be here with you. 741 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.960 It's been such a treat. 742 00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:44.480 Yeah. 743 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:46.960 And guys, thank you so much for listening. 744 00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.600 I hope you guys were encouraged and challenged 745 00:32:50.600 --> 00:32:54.000 and blessed by what Micah had to share. 746 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.120 And yeah, we will see you next time.