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Tom has a full gym, uh, wherever he's staying.

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He has one particular gym machine that's incredibly challenging to work your legs and your arms,

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and he was like, Eddie, go and, go and have a go on that machine.

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My arms were so tired, I couldn't even lift a fork using my other hand to try and like,

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lift it up to my mouth. And he was just having a little giggle to himself in the corner,

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because he knew that that was what he was like when he started using the machine.

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So, Eddie, welcome to Half the Picture. How are you doing today?

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Great, Billy. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Happy to share all the stories with you and talk about movies and things that we love.

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Fantastic. Well, as I was saying to you before we started rolling, I've been a fan of yours for

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the years. I'm editing is kind of where I started. I studied editing and your films that you

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worked on and your editing techniques and cutting style was something that I studied pretty closely.

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And so, yeah, it's an absolute pleasure to have your work.

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There's plenty of movies that nobody's seen as well. Like, when I was starting out, I did

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like a lot of low-budget movies, you know, so I appreciate your kind words. But, you know,

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anyone in the film industry has always got these entries on IMDB where you're a bit like, wow,

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just there's a lot there which no one's ever heard of. But that's just how it is when you're working

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your way slowly up the greasy pole. You know, you do a lot of stuff and no one wants to make a bad film,

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but sometimes, you know, the movies don't work out as well as you hope. But actually, you end up

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working just as hard on the ones that don't work as well as the ones that do because that's how it is.

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Sure, sure. And I guess you're paying your dues at that period. Exactly.

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Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And working on stuff and then eventually you work your way up and get that

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big break. Exactly. I guess the mainstream movie making. I mean, looking back at your

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extraordinary career and all the amazing films you've worked on, I mean, just to give people an idea,

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you know, you worked with Matthew Vaughan on kickass and the Kingsman movies and then

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Kristen McCquarrie on the Mission Impossible movies, Rognation Onwoods, and Top Gun Maverick.

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I mean, you've cut so many of the sort of biggest movies at the last 15 or so years. And to kick off

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with, I guess I just wanted to ask as an opener like, what is a film editor and what makes a good

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film editor? Okay. Film editing is the best job. Okay. I love it. If you think about the logistics

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of a film set, you may have up to 500 people working on a film set to create the magic between

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action and cut. And they will have been working for months to get a set ready and to light it and

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to get all the actors dressed and to figure out the special effects on set and the rain or the fog

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or whatever's needed. And then action cut, the camera, the cards are taken out, the camera,

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the sound is recorded. And then all that work from 500 people goes to one person who's the film

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editor. So when you're making a movie, quite often it will start out with a writer who is obviously

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one person. And then maybe you'll get a director and a producer involved three people. And then

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the creative process balloons out to like 500 people. And then eventually comes back down just to

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one person who's the editor. So it is an enormous position of privilege and responsibility because

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you know, the crew will film. And then the next day, I will get all the footage. And I'll normally

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start looking at it quite early in the morning. But you're the first person on the planet to watch

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it all. And to see the film coming to life through your fingertips and on the timeline of the

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computer that you're working on. Before even the director gets to see it, you can start to feel

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the life of the film and the characters and the interactions and the emotion that you're creating.

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Whatever emotion it is that you're trying to create with the audience. And editors are emotional

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visual storytellers, right? That's the only thing the audience gives a shit about is am I feeling

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anything at this point? So my job as the editor is to take the audience's hand while the opening

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logos are running and carry them through every moment emotionally, every nuance through the film

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and making sure that the emotional flow of the movie is as smooth as possible. And everything that

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we're trying to communicate to the audience is communicated successfully. And it doesn't start

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like that. It starts out lumpy and too long and unfocused and confusing. Every film starts out like

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this. And you have to work at it a lot over many weeks and months before you start to kind of

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really feel the an effortless, smooth story being told. And people really have no idea about

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the stress and the emotional sort of intensity of editing a film because the editing room is a

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place of extreme creative safety where you and the director and maybe the producer or whoever

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can work and fail a lot because ultimately you start off failing a lot and you kind of fix

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things and you fail less every day until when you finish the movie there's no failure in it and

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you've fixed everything and it's all working perfectly. But the creative process of embracing

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failure and knowing that the first assembly will be the worst thing that you've ever seen

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and understanding that if you want to enable creativity in people is to allow them to fail in

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safety. There's the whole thing in Pixar where they say we just encourage people to fail early

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and fail often so that we understand what is going to work and it's the same with editing.

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There's going to be a lot of failure before things start to work and creatively that is a very

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it can be a hotbed of creative discussion and disagreement

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but because it's a private space it allows you to communicate with trust and friendship and

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honesty and try stuff out with your collaborators, your creative collaborators on the film

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and it would make for a great reality TV show because people fall out a lot and there's lots of

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kind of heated arguments and discussions but it's kind of the reason why there aren't really

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many behind-the-scenes documentaries about editing films because it would be a little unvarnished

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for a lot of people and then by the time you get to the premiere everyone's friends again you know

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and you don't want any scuttlebutt about editing discussion to kind of filter out

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into the world because many people are very keen to hear that the film isn't going well or

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that people are disagreeing because it'll you know make clicks on the you know on websites or whatever

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and so you know we all agree that everything that is discussed only takes place within the four

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walls of the editing room and that we will have very honest discussions the best idea wins the best

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version of the movie wins it's not about ego it's about making sure that the best version of the

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movie that can exist that has been shot in the raw footage kind of gets out there you know

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everyone's best work being being shown but really it's it's just about creating the correct emotion

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that's all I'm focused on is emotional visual storytelling making sure that the shot

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compositions and the choices of where to cut inform the story as well as you know the line

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readings and things like that but you know how how you start a scene whether you start on a close-up

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or a wide shot and when you choose to cut to the person listening or cut to the person talking

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and how you use coverage when there's multiple characters or how you create stakes and energy in

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an action sequence you know all of that stuff is kind of what I'm thinking about but

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everything it comes down to the the emotional content of what the audience is experiencing in

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that second of the movie you know and making sure that it's a fluid smooth emotional journey from

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beginning to end and it's very satisfying when you eventually get there but it does take a very

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long time on these big movies it's like two years of work yeah for each film yeah so it sounds

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like what makes a good editor is having your finger on the pulse of the heart of the story yeah heart

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of the story I think the other thing about what makes a good editor is great communication

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with your team of assistant editors with the music department with the visual effects department

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that's so important on these big movies where you know the visual effects production

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management is extremely closely monitored on a day-to-day basis you know how many shots have

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they got to get completed to a photorealistic standard in the time that they have and making sure

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when I'm working with the director I'm constantly communicating with the the VFX team how to

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motivate your team of assistant editors so that they are fresh and excited to work and can contribute

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creatively that's really important I think being a movie lover is critical being enthusiastic I

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think one of the most one of the reasons why I've been working with Tom Cruise since 2014 is because

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I'm relentlessly enthusiastic regardless of how challenging the creative situations are that

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we find ourselves in and you know the the worst day on a film set is better than the best day in

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almost every other job you know it's it's an incredible privilege to be working telling stories

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for a living and it can get very very intense and hard and the hours can be very long indeed

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sometimes but if you stay enthusiastic and committed and focused that's so important

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and I think gratitude is important like saying thank you to everybody and making sure that

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you know everybody who works on the film is you know appreciated from whatever they do you know

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but yeah I think enthusiasm is critical and loving movies and knowing movies and being

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and being passionate about the fact that you're involved in making something that millions of people

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might see which is such a privilege and so exciting you know and what I dreamed of doing since I was

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eight you know yeah well I wanted to ask about that because I know you started you were a film fan

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from a very early age and then got into editing I mean when did you know you wanted to break into

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filmmaking I would say well basically when I saw Star Wars was when I was eight years old it was

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I think it was on TV in 1980 it was on ITV so it had adverts in it but I remember watching it and I

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remember being so extraordinarily impressed and amazed that anything like this could exist and

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that I could see it with my own eyes and spaceships and robots and creatures and it was just

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mind blowing for an eight-year-old to see that and I didn't get taken to the movies much by my

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parents because the nearest cinema was quite a drive away but we had a beatermax video tape recorder

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so I would watch Star Wars over and over again and I remember the first time I got to the end

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of the movie at the certain the metal ceremony and the John Williams music is playing and then

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there's that circular wipe and it says written and directed by George Lucas in the blue font and

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I remember seeing that and at eight years old thinking that's some that's a human being's name and

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so maybe people make films maybe they don't just exist on the TV as if by magic you know people

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actually create them and so I saw all these names going by on the end credits as I was in the

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after-glow of the movie because I was so excited by what I'd seen and I was watching a 14 inch 4 by

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three pan and scan version of the movie you know on mono sound and but I remember thinking okay so

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all these people worked on the movie and I want to do that and so from the age of eight I was

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obsessed with anything to do with filmmaking and I tried to watch as many films as I could on TV

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beg my parents to take me to cinema my friends parents I would listen to film soundtracks I would

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you know go to the library and get cassette or a record or whatever I would get books out from the

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library of of anything to do with filmmaking and I would read them over and over again and learn

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about you know how films are made and lenses and film stock and I was obsessed with industrial

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light and magic visual effects and I learned about map paintings and models and photochemical

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compositing and you know motion control photography and you know stop motion animation and all that

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stuff that they did for those movies which created the magic that I was experiencing and then eventually

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when DVDs came out watching all the behind the scenes but I really only discovered editing when I was

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about 17 16 or 17 when I hooked two VHS machines up and then I would copy clips from one to another

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which is the equivalent of a kid today on their phone shooting stuff and doing it on cap cut on

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their phone you know in the back of the car they filmed something at the beach with their parents

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and on the way home in the back of the car they might be putting it together on their phone on

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cap cut but it's um that for me was really where I where hours would fly by in the creative process

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and people who are listening to this or watching this who are aspiring editors or who are editors

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will recognize that flow state that you can get into when you're editing where hours just fly

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by because you're so intensely focused on the the precise kind of frame that you're cutting on

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and the emotional impact that that has when you've got these two shots that you're cutting together

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and then the overall shape of the story that you're building whether it's a 10 second story or a

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30 second story or a five minute story whatever it is but that and the power of adding sound effects

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and music and creating something emotional for an audience is intoxicating you know so that's

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kind of how I discovered it absolutely that was my first contact of it as well it can it gets

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in your blood a bit doesn't it when you first sort of dive into that yeah it's enormously time

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consuming like when you start out doing it you you you may do a minute in an hour and you're so

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proud of it but you've only done a minute you know and you just think wow is it really taking me

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that long but on a big movie it takes way longer you know there's a there's a there's one day on

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Top Gun Maverick I remember I've told this story before but there was so much coverage for the

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third act trench run sequence you know and I remember there was one day where I did three seconds

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in the morning and four seconds in the afternoon so I did seven seconds on a Friday and but I had

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thousands of options to choose from to get down to that seven seconds and it is almost identical

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in the movie to how I built it on that day but I remember thinking I'm never going to finish if

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this is how long it's going to take me just to do seven seconds of this sequence you know but that

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just gives you an idea and my my kids have have kind of grown up with me playing the same one

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minute of a movie over and over and like adjusting the nuances of one line of dialogue or one word

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or one syllable and they're like dad why are you here why are you playing this again and again

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I'm like what it is different every time but it's just different by one percent and we're just trying

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to dial in the the perfect line delivery for this moment but they're quite used to it now and they

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understand that that's the process and neither of them are interested because I think they're they're

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like this is not for me why would you spend hours and hours doing this you know but I love it and

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I still love it so yeah it's great and but what's funny is that like because as you say you started

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your interest in film started when you were around eight years old then 17 you discovered editing

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but I want to say you just you studied psychology at university I did study psychology mainly because

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there were no undergraduate really there weren't really any undergraduate film courses when I went

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to university in 1991 before all of you were born and yeah and however at UCL they had a very

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very active film and TV society and they made a lot of student TV and a lot of student films and

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there was a group of very passionate filmmakers from all kinds of different degree courses who would

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meet every day and make student films and TV and that is actually what I did so I joined the film

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society on my first day and I spent probably eight hours a day every day making films and TV and two

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hours a day studying psychology like the absolute bare minimum that I could do to go to my lectures

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write the essays and pass to get a two one it was very interesting degree but I loved movies but

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and also I was in London so I was able to go to the cinema a lot and go to the national film

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theatre and go to the print charts and just watch tons and tons of movies and see stuff projected

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that I'd only ever seen on a VHS tape or only ever read about because a lot of things you couldn't

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get on video back then you know you could only see certain movies in the cinema yeah and it was

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great and I've basically lived in London you know ever since then because also it's that's

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be honest the centre of the filmmaking community in the UK and if you want to work in the film

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industry you have to really be in London if you want to find your way onto these kind of bigger

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movies so I didn't I did psychology but really I was still doing a lot of film and TV and lots of

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editing and making short films and all kinds of things we were doing but you know learning a lot

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along the way and making friends with people who I'm still in touch with now making those connections

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yeah but what's interesting to me though about that the fact that you studied psychology was that

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linking that back to something you said near the start about the atmosphere and the environment

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of an editing room and your dealing with with with with egos and creatives and it's quite a sort of

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fertile environment but there's a lot of energy in there like do you think there's any crossover

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between having to be a good psychologist I think probably yeah I mean I'm kind of in touch with

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my feminine side shall we say and I I am I hope I'm sensitive communicator which you need to be

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when you're working you know in an editing room and working with people who are who have a lot

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of stake you know creatively personally professionally financially um you know producers directors

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writers actors um and you know remaining calm and just figuring the problem out is um is important

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you know and not not Michael Khan has this great expression where he says don't let them see you

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sweat you know and whenever someone comes into my cutting room whenever they come up to me on set

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how's it going I was like fantastic great and I always say that because you don't want anyone to

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have a sense that things aren't kind of coming together well you know and and I can be very honest

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with an experienced producer or a director and I can say like there's an issue with this scene or

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with that scene um or we we need this extra pickup or we need this or we need that or um you know

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I'm not sure about this wardrobe choice you know what do you think or this hair how this person

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this actors hair looks so you need to be sensitive to all those things but um yeah I think there's

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probably you know the best editors are also quite personable you know but the other thing is I never

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grumble you know I don't understand why people grumble and a lot of editors do grumble but it's

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just such a privilege to do what we do and so I just kind of get my head down and get on with it

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and I'm grateful to be employed frankly you know and it must be an exciting environment because you say

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some of the people you've worked with like like Tom Cruise and Christopher McCwary who are like

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Titans yeah and and and and seemed to me to have so much energy and ideas like you were saying

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you're about about cruise like you know the enthusiasm that comes off from him I mean and that

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must be sort of filling up the cutting room yeah it's interesting I from from when I started

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making tea as a runner to getting a call to work on mission impossible road nation was 20 years

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so just to give people an idea of how long I was you know slowly climbing up the ladder of the

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industry um working on you know a lot of short films and features for free so I would pay my bills

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by doing two days a week at the Paramount Comedy Channel editing promos um and being paid as a

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freelance editor and then five days a week I'd work for free on other people's movies and TV

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well short films it was really in features low very low budget features but learning learning

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learning learning all the time and then getting a chance to work with Matthew Vaughan in 2001 that

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was a big break when I did a film called Mean Machine and but that was an incredible opportunity

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because I heard that they were looking for an editor and I knew somebody who knew somebody who knew

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him so I had like a third-hand connection which is and so I called my friend and I said can you

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call your friend and ask that person to call Matthew and say there's this young editor who really

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wants to work with him and somehow they did do that and then a week later I got to meet Matthew and

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I said can I I'd love to work on your film um I'll sleep on the floor of the cutting room I don't

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care this is just the most incredible opportunity and he said all right have a crack at the first

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um start at the beginning of this movie and do as much as you can in two weeks and then I'll come

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in and watch what you've done and see if if it's kind of working for me and um so I did and I

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worked around the clock I did almost sleep there because I was working till midnight every night and

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I managed to do about 40 minutes of the movie in two weeks wow it's quite a lot um and he came in

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I remember he was a Tuesday lunchtime in 2001 probably like August maybe in 2001

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because I remember we were in the edit on nine on me machine when we when 9-11 happened

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and the world stopped and I remember we all kind of like we were watching the TV um when the twin

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towers came down but Matthew came in and he was married to Claudia Schiffer at the time he still

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is married to what am I saying but Claudia Schiffer came in and I remember going oh holy smokes

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serious a list of action anyway he walked in with her and they watched them they watched the

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40 minutes that I'd done so I sat down I said right press play on the spacebar when you want to

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you know press the spacebar when you want to start and I'll I'll wait down the corridor and so I had

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a very nervous 40 minutes where I could hear the film playing in the room and I was busy kind of

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having a cup of tea and drink eating a sandwich and then you know and so nervous because a lot

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this was a major you know inflection point in my career if this went well you know and there's a

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thing about luck is preparation meets opportunity right so I had prepared by teaching myself how to

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edit and and then this opportunity had come along and so I I had two weeks to kind of create my own

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luck there you know and find myself and then but Matt what was great is Matthew came out he's like

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it's really good I've got a few notes but I see exactly what you're doing it's great just keep

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just keep going so that worked out and then and I'm still friends with Matthew you know we're working

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together on something now you know and it's you know 25 years later you know and so

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and and that led on to kickass and X-Men first class working with Lee Smith you know

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Lee who was between inception and the Dark Knight rises on his sort of Christopher Nolan journey

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so he'd just done inception masterpiece and was about to do the Dark Knight rises but he had seven

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months in between and he came in and did X-Men first class and I was fortunate enough to work with him

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and he was kind enough to give me the shared editing credit on the film and but I good did get to

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learn a lot from Lee about how to work on these gigantic movies and how to run a big feature film

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cutting room and how to communicate with the head of a studio because Tom Rothman who was running

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20th Century Fox at the time and he would come in quite a lot and the one thing that Lee would

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always do was he would just be very honest with him about what he was seeing about the quality of

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the footage and the quality of the performances and that's all the the head of the studio wants to hear

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is an honest appraisal he doesn't want anything to be sugar coated you know this is working this

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is not working this is how we're going to fix this and yeah so that and being in the room and

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watching those conversations happen with somebody who who's now my age basically Lee was my age

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when he was doing X-Men back then which was in 2010 2011 we did that and again it was incredibly

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quick we did the whole thing in seven months and that or no nine months it was seven months of

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filming and nine months of editing so the movie was out in theaters two months after we finished

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filming which is extraordinary when you look back but Lee is brilliant at his job and we had the

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resources from 20th Century Fox to do it and you know when you have a release date to hit that one

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of your jobs is you do not miss the release date as the editor of the movie and if you need help

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ask for help if you're falling behind you know because they'll happily put another editor

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on to help you in order for the films to be ready on time yeah that was very very interesting and

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and then going on to do after that going on to do Kingsman the first Kingsman the Secret Service

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then doing mission impossible and then doing the second Kingsman and then I was kind of with Tom

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Cruz then after that until we've just finished you know final reckoning last year so I was with Tom

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working kind of pretty much nonstop for about 10 years and got to know him very well and

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you know some of the time when we were filming on these movies we would I would be living with Tom

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Cruz and Chris McCory in a kind of rented house somewhere in the world where we were filming

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and the reason is they would want me there at breakfast listening to what they were discussing

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about what they were going to film that day traveling to work with them listening to the discussions

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that were happening being in meetings during the day as they're filming so I'm aware of how things

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were evolving and then traveling back and having dinner so I can hear their thoughts on what they

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have done that day and what they liked and what they want to put in the movie so I would get this

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incredible head start on understanding what their intentions were and how their intentions had

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changed because you have to kind of be light on your feet and be able to work with a fluid mindset

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because things do change all the time and ideas come up and you know there's a problem with the

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weather or someone gets injured or some prop isn't ready or the camera breaks and you need to pivot

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and do something you know there's all kinds of things that go wrong or mean that you know the crew

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has to you know change pivot in the middle of the day and do something else and so having that

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mindset or developing that mindset is quite healthy it's a bit stressful sometimes but you just have

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to lean into the fact that you work with the knowledge that you have and do the best that you can with

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everything that you've got on the day but it comes with just maturity and having done it for years

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and having built a relationship with someone like Chris McCory and with Tom Cruise so you can

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communicate honestly and frankly with each other with the knowledge that you just want the best film

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at the end of the day you know yeah yeah and because as you say like because I've heard the

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anecdote before about how you and McEw and Cruz will be sharing kind of I want to say it was a

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cottage in South Africa right when you were shooting mission impossible and you'd be having those

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conversations like you're on set a lot as I know that sometimes yeah I can be it's not it's not actually

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very productive in my opinion to be on set because you really should have more of an air of a like

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you need some independent point of view on the footage maybe it's slightly different with an action

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sequence but certainly in a dialogue scene but also there is so much to go through and I start early

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in the morning like you know I get in the car at 20 past six and I start watching footage on my

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laptop and skimming through the daily so by 7 a.m. I've kind of watched the days or at least skimmed

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through them depending on how much there is and then I'm in the cutting room and I start work and

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you know I'm working from seven till seven in the evening or nine in the evening or whatever it's

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you know long long days and and and I'm working flat out to kind of stay on top of everything

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that they're filming and that's just the reality of wanting to work on these big movies and do

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a world-class job with what you're doing you know I never take shortcuts I always watch everything

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I'm very thorough with how I break down footage how I make selects roles and you know I always

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stack up options on the timeline for things so if the director or producer comes in and says

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what other options have we got you know I can show other things that I've found for that sort of two

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or three seconds of story and and when people see that you go that extra mile and you really dig in

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and look deeply at the footage they know that they're in safe hands editorially you know which pays

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off in the long run yeah the very first time I met Tom Cruise I remember we were working on

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Mission Impossible Rogue Nation and they were being filming on location they went to Vienna

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then they went to Morocco we were probably about nearly halfway through product the third to halfway

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through the the shoot and Tom comes into the cutting room my sister knocks on the dog I said he

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Tom Cruise is here to see you so I'm like oh my word it's Maverick he's actually coming in it's

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you know Ethan Hunt and Maverick and he's coming into the but he was really nice and was just like

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Eddie great to meet you thank you for doing this I'm so pleased you're here and he would say

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and then he said look the cruise a bit cruise a bit tired and morale a bit low and we just want to

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put together a little sizzle reel to show them of some of the cool stuff we've been doing our location

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can you do that I was like absolutely Tom no problem of course I can do that and when would it be

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ready he said and I said well look it's three o'clock today so if you come in it why don't you say

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come in at three o'clock tomorrow afternoon and I'll show you a first pass and and we can see how you

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feel about it so he said I'll be back with McHugh tomorrow at three o'clock and so it was a very

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short like it was one minute but again like the lay the Tom Cruise lays a focus and the enthusiasm

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and the gratitude which he's all about the gratitude and so I remember thinking right this is

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quite a big gauntlet that's been thrown down here I better not mess this up however the secret weapon

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of any editor on a movie is that about halfway through production a producer will come in and see

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you and say Morales a bit low the cruise a bit tied can you please put together a sizzle reel

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so in the back of your mind any good editor anyone watching this should be thinking about halfway

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through I need to really have ideas about what to put in a sizzle reel or have done one already

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so that then when the producer walks in you don't say you've done it but you go what have you got

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in mind and you just you let them talk to you about the things and then you can adjust what you've

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done or you've done it already and then you don't have to sweat it out but I had an idea

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of what I would do for that sizzle reel and so I and I had the idea about what music to use and

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stuff so I in my mind it wasn't I'd already done a lot of thinking about it and kind of creative

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you know cooking should we say and so I was able to start at three and I went through to like

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10 pm and I had done like a rough first part of this whole sizzle reel there's only a couple of

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minutes long and then the next day I came in early and I worked all day ignore I skimmed through

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the days but I didn't assemble anything and then I finished the sizzle reel and I thought again

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this is another big inflection point you know where Tom Cruise has asked me to do something and I

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cannot let him down and I don't want to let him down and I don't want to let the director down

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and I haven't worked with Chris and Cory before it's a you know it's a big deal and and this is my

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first major movie that I've done on my own quite frankly you know of this scale and so anyway he

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comes in with McCue with Chris the next day and and I press play and they watch it and they're like

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huh it's pretty good we've done some good stuff in this movie there's some cool shit here this

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is great so I was like okay and Tom was like this is awesome well done that's really great work

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just swap out of that shot in the middle for something else and swap those two shots over at the

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end and then we'll show the crew on the set in an hour and I was like fantastic okay I've passed

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this test but you feel it when when you're in these points in your career where there's an

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a list are asking you to do something and you're like this is going to be really important that you

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know it's one of the things I always tell my assistants is when will something be ready and

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you please make sure that you give me an accurate ETA with enough time to check your work before

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you give it to me because I'll be basing my creative day around getting that thing from you at the

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time you tell me that I'll have it and it's the same with with with a movie star if you say

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something will be ready by this time it better be ready because you don't want to waste their time

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and you want to be a team player and deliver great work and you know being accurate with the

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estimates of how long things take is very important in that regard but it worked out fine and they

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were on this big set with these video massive video screens so they were able to run it and it

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was great and everyone was happy and you know that was a great feeling you know whenever you do that

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but yeah you anytime you're working on something the producer will always ask you for a scissor

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reel about halfway through so you should make sure you've got got an idea or even got one ready

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yeah have it in your back pocket exactly yeah and why is Tom like as a as a producer because I've

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heard so many stories over the years about him as a how he works not only as a movie star and as

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an actor but as a producer because he has such a keen interest in every animal every aspect of

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the filmmaking process and I'm out and as it sounds like he is in the editing room quite a

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lot yeah he is what's he like to work with as a producer he knows everyone's job on the set

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and in some cases maybe better than they do you know because he has been working in the industry

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for so long over 40 years and he's been a student of movies all that time and he's studied films

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and he's studied filmmaking he's studied cameras and lenses and lighting you know he's active with

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the greatest actors in the world you name them he's worked with them you know Paul Newman and

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Jack Nicholson and Dustin Hoffman and you know everybody it's it's just an a list that everybody

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and when you listen to him talk about collaborating with these other amazing actors and how he

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was able to influence them in the creative process and how what they taught him you know it's amazing

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to be in be around somebody who has that much experience with visual storytelling at a really

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elite level you know and has worked with so many great DPs and directors and script writers and

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composers and I mean but you know the first film he produced was Mission Impossible which came out

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in 1996 the first one and he wanted it to have an international appeal he wants to film in Europe

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and he wants to cast you know European actors so you know Jean Reno and Emmanuel Bayard and filming

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in you know parts of Europe and in London to give it a kind of international feel the movie

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so all of that was his idea you know he's very actively involved in

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cast in wardrobe in locations in designing the stunts and designing the training regime for

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the stunts because a lot of them he's doing them himself you know so he worked very closely with

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his stunt team and it's always all the stunts are done on a gradient you know starting with baby

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steps he never takes all the risks are managed as best as they can you know he's aware of the risks

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and he's planned for everything down to like taping shoelaces down you know when he's jumping off

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something just in case a shoelace gets caught things like that all the everything that they can

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possibly predict they've tried to mitigate for so in the edit room he again he knows the process

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he he understands that things start off long and confusing and get better and better he trusts

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the the screening process he's he's very um particular about subjective point of view in storytelling

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which is critical which is when you have a single protagonist movie and when you're working

387
00:39:29.040 --> 00:39:35.840
on a film with Tom Cruise in the lead usually that's a single protagonist movie you know if he's

388
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:40.560
playing Maverick or if he's playing Ethan Hunt whatever so you you are following the emotional

389
00:39:40.560 --> 00:39:46.800
journey you know the transformational journey of that character through the movie not that not

390
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:53.520
you know in Magnolia or something obviously he's a supporting character or in you know

391
00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:00.560
uh what's the one with Robert Downey Jr um choppy thunder yeah choppy thunder where he's

392
00:40:00.560 --> 00:40:06.240
deliberately coming in to to play that agent character with the fat fingers and doing the dancing

393
00:40:06.240 --> 00:40:12.960
and stuff yeah but when he's a leading man you know it's important he takes that responsibility

394
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:20.320
very seriously and he has to the audience has to subjectively be in his point of view as much as

395
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:27.520
they can through the movie to feel the emotions that that character is feeling and and share their

396
00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:32.800
thoughts as they have them in the film that's really what we're trying to do so that you totally

397
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:38.160
connect with the emotional journey of the character and you understand what's at stake for them and

398
00:40:38.160 --> 00:40:43.280
you feel everything that they're feeling as they're feeling it you know that's that's really the

399
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:49.440
secret to getting you to lean into a movie when it's a single protagonist movie like that and most

400
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:56.400
stories are the transformational journey of a human being you know um and he he's very particular

401
00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:04.800
about that and how to create that with editorial choices you know and how to lean into it with music

402
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:13.600
and sound design subjective sound design and things like that um but he does collaborate with

403
00:41:13.600 --> 00:41:18.640
really great filmmakers and Christopher McCory is a really terrific visual storyteller he's

404
00:41:18.640 --> 00:41:26.000
gotten an an encyclopedic knowledge of movies the way that all these big directors have and he

405
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:35.760
has incredibly nuanced instincts for strong angles and how to light and how to create emotion

406
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:43.120
with the character and a lens choice and all that stuff which is audiences feel immediately when

407
00:41:43.120 --> 00:41:47.680
they see an image in a movie but they don't understand why they're feeling it or how the director

408
00:41:47.680 --> 00:41:53.200
has created that emotional feeling whereas Tom and Tom Cruise and Chris McCory really understand it

409
00:41:53.200 --> 00:42:00.240
they understand it at a at a genetic level and and I'm in awe of what they can do sometimes Chris

410
00:42:00.240 --> 00:42:04.400
will come in and we'll be working on a scene and he will say you know what we should do

411
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:10.160
let's throw this out and try this instead and it's way better and I would never have thought of that

412
00:42:10.160 --> 00:42:15.760
with a year of just sitting thinking on my own and we'll throw a scene out and we'll try something

413
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:22.160
else and and we'll build another version of the scene in an hour or two hours and it's just it's

414
00:42:22.160 --> 00:42:28.880
astonishing Tom Cruise is there every day in post-production and if he's not there in person he will call

415
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:34.800
the editing room usually in the afternoon and get a detailed breakdown of exactly what we've been

416
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:41.920
doing through that day and and Chris takes great takes time to explain and because Tom was there

417
00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:48.080
on set he knows all the coverage and he's he understands the ideas that we're pitching and things

418
00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:53.120
that we're trying that oh yeah that'll work that'll work that's great and and what will if if Tom

419
00:42:53.120 --> 00:42:58.080
has an idea like how does he communicate with you as an editor is he a technical communicator is he

420
00:42:58.080 --> 00:43:01.760
when it comes to talking about the editing process or is he more emotional no it's just about how

421
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:07.360
he's feeling it's like I'm not feeling this I need to feel more of this that's all it is which is

422
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:14.800
the best kind of note really and occasionally he can be specific but usually it's just I want to

423
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:20.080
feel more of this I'm not in Ethan's point of view I'm not in Maverick's point of view I need to feel

424
00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:25.120
what Maverick's feeling that's kind of what he's saying things like that okay because there's that

425
00:43:25.120 --> 00:43:30.960
story that came out recently on Star Wars Starfighter I believe which Cruise visited the set he sort

426
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:36.480
of chopper down about he has a personal chopper and he came on the set for a visit and then he

427
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:41.200
picked up a camera and started shooting helping to shoot one of the action scenes and I was I was

428
00:43:41.200 --> 00:43:45.040
thinking like does he ever do that in the editor and does he jump ever jump in on an editor he doesn't

429
00:43:45.040 --> 00:43:51.200
know he doesn't really certain jobs are extraordinarily technical and it's quite easy to really

430
00:43:51.200 --> 00:43:56.880
mess things up if you press the wrong button and editing is one of those jobs and it's the same with

431
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:02.240
you know if you see a lighting engineer on a set and they're controlling you know 200 lights

432
00:44:02.240 --> 00:44:08.480
with an iPad you can mess that up and and he wouldn't try and sew a costume you know there is

433
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:15.920
expert tailors who work on the clothes and you know music editing is so specific and visual effects

434
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:22.640
is incredibly but he's always just talking emotionally about stuff I think he was probably just

435
00:44:22.640 --> 00:44:27.440
having a bit of fun that day and just so you know the helicopter that he's flying in Mission

436
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:33.600
possible fallout is his own helicopter so when you see that black air bus helicopter that he's flying

437
00:44:33.600 --> 00:44:38.960
that is his own helicopter that he flies around now still in London wow but the reason he does that

438
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:45.360
is to keep his hours up as a pilot because if you don't fly you lose your license so the reason he

439
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:52.160
likes to fly is helicopter so quite often he will go to Battersea heliport in the morning and fly

440
00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:57.760
his helicopter to the set or to the location and then fly back in the evening so he's done you know

441
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:05.680
an hour's worth of flying or 45 minutes of flying because every pilot's hours are monitored very

442
00:45:05.680 --> 00:45:12.880
closely to make sure that they are flying enough to maintain their license you know and Tom takes

443
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:19.840
that very seriously he's an incredibly safe pilot I flown and he's a you know an astonishing

444
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:26.000
stunt pilot in obviously a fixed-wing aircraft but also helicopters as you've seen in Mission

445
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:32.000
Impossible fallout so dangerous some of the stunts he's doing in New Zealand there but you know he

446
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:38.720
really takes the safety very seriously and he double checks everything before the helicopter takes

447
00:45:38.720 --> 00:45:43.760
off so you feel very safe when you're flying with him you know and have you flown with him?

448
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:49.600
Yeah many times yeah yeah many times I remember you know just when Haley Atwell was cast in Mission

449
00:45:49.600 --> 00:45:54.880
Impossible he was like do you guys want to lift back to London and I was like absolutely fine so

450
00:45:54.880 --> 00:46:00.240
I was sat next to Haley Atwell and back at a helicopter and he's like hey Haley where's your

451
00:46:00.240 --> 00:46:04.160
parents live and she's like well I don't know they're not in London but my grandlives down there

452
00:46:04.160 --> 00:46:08.720
and Wimbledon and he's like great we'll fly by and have a look at your grandson you know and so

453
00:46:08.720 --> 00:46:16.000
did a little fly by over Haley Atwell's grandmother's house and you know it's nuts when you're flying

454
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:21.200
in a helicopter with Tom Cruise but you know in Norway I flown with him and in Africa and

455
00:46:21.200 --> 00:46:30.880
and he you know it's very joyful because he he as a he's like a spiritual aviator you know he loves

456
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:40.160
flying because he loves feeling free you know he loves experiencing the world from a point of

457
00:46:40.160 --> 00:46:46.000
view which is very privileged and unusual and like a bird's eye view you know so when you talk to

458
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:51.760
pilots that that sense of freedom that you get when you fly a plane or a helicopter especially

459
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:59.280
early on when you're learning and it's just it's it's like fresh air you know it's soul food

460
00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:08.480
and so it's a huge privilege to fly with him but yeah he's he's a I mean a world class aviator pilot

461
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:15.360
so there's no you know it's a privilege and and you know he's I mean he's also incredibly generous

462
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:24.240
I will say um we when we were in South Africa I think it was in 2022 my daughter who was

463
00:47:25.600 --> 00:47:33.200
maybe 16 at the time came to visit me and um he was like I own a great to see you welcome to

464
00:47:33.200 --> 00:47:37.680
the set so happy that you're here do you do you want to have a lesson in my helicopter do my

465
00:47:37.680 --> 00:47:43.120
pilot to take you up and have a helicopter lesson and she's like 16 or 17 years old this girl

466
00:47:43.120 --> 00:47:48.240
and so she gets to go up and I go in the back and the pilots like this is what you do put your

467
00:47:48.240 --> 00:47:51.840
feet on the pedals and here's the thing and this is the collective and this is what you do

468
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:57.200
and so and she's got her like Ray Ban aviators on and she looks amazing she's and she kind of like

469
00:47:57.200 --> 00:48:01.440
looks back at me she's holding the stick for the pilot and I've got this great photo of her

470
00:48:02.160 --> 00:48:09.520
but he's very generous like that in that he's he's so grateful to your family that you that he's

471
00:48:09.520 --> 00:48:14.160
that you've come that they've allowed you to come and work on the movie because you know they're

472
00:48:14.160 --> 00:48:18.720
not seeing you for months at a time when you go and work on a film like that so whenever they come

473
00:48:18.720 --> 00:48:22.960
and visit the set he's incredibly grateful and he's like do you guys want to ride in the helicopter

474
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:27.920
or do you want to do this or do that and so she got to have an incredible experience you know

475
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:33.280
and flew his helicopter for like six or seven minutes over the plains of South Africa with a pilot

476
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:39.680
next to it but it was genuinely flying a helicopter is if you're going straight it's actually

477
00:48:39.680 --> 00:48:45.280
fairly easy to fly hovering is really hard and and turning it's not it's not too difficult but

478
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:49.520
you know landing is really hard and taking off is really hard so they all do all that but then

479
00:48:49.520 --> 00:48:54.720
and then you're fine but she got you know that's just purely because Tom's so generous you know

480
00:48:54.720 --> 00:49:00.400
as a collaborator yeah something that you said there about how when you guys were forming in

481
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:05.760
South Africa I believe it was dead reckoning and yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you shared

482
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:09.520
yeah you shared that cottage with Tom and Chris and you would have those conversations about what

483
00:49:09.520 --> 00:49:13.600
you're going to shoot that day yeah like I'm just curious to ask more about that because what I

484
00:49:13.600 --> 00:49:17.120
can't imagine what those two would be like not only as collaborative as creatively but just as

485
00:49:17.120 --> 00:49:22.720
roommates yeah no they're they're not it's housemates really but we're just talking about movies and

486
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:29.440
and what about you know what they're trying to do and different story ideas and and we were we were

487
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:34.480
also like Top Gun haven't come out and we were still working on bits and pieces for Top Gun

488
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:40.080
Maverick then as well at the weekends we would you know be be working on little behind the scenes

489
00:49:40.080 --> 00:49:47.920
pieces or you know I remember doing like helping work on the video the Lady Gaga video for Top Gun

490
00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:53.520
and choosing bits of the movie to put in the the video that's online and things like that so we

491
00:49:53.520 --> 00:50:06.560
would be doing other stuff and I remember Tom has a full gym wherever he's staying and I don't

492
00:50:06.560 --> 00:50:13.200
really I'm not as intensely gym focused as he is but he goes to the gym a lot he's in phenomenal

493
00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:20.240
physical shape he's unbelievably fit he's kind of a limbic athlete level fit and quite often

494
00:50:20.240 --> 00:50:27.040
but and he has he has one particular gym machine that's incredibly challenging to work your legs

495
00:50:27.040 --> 00:50:32.240
and your arms and he was like Eddie go and go and have a go on that machine you know on a on a

496
00:50:32.240 --> 00:50:36.240
on a Thursday night or whatever after we got back or maybe it was a Sunday morning one day

497
00:50:36.240 --> 00:50:42.080
so I did it for about half an hour and I came out and I could my arms were so tired I couldn't even

498
00:50:42.080 --> 00:50:47.600
lift a fork right and so I was kind of like doing this I was I was lifting the fork and using my

499
00:50:47.600 --> 00:50:52.640
other hand to try and like lift it up to my mouth and and he was just having a little giggle to

500
00:50:52.640 --> 00:50:57.040
himself in the corner because he knew that that's what he was like when he started using the machine

501
00:50:57.040 --> 00:51:04.080
but he was you know it was it was just a bit of fun and and he he has his family around him and

502
00:51:04.080 --> 00:51:10.720
but we're just mostly we're just talking about the story of the film and occasionally I'll say

503
00:51:11.680 --> 00:51:15.200
what was it like working with Stephen Spielberg on minority report you know because

504
00:51:15.200 --> 00:51:19.760
clutch just like tell me the stories as a fan you know and and he loves telling those stories you

505
00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:27.520
know and and reflecting on the things that he learnt and you know how he improved as a as a

506
00:51:27.520 --> 00:51:34.640
storyteller by collaborating with these different people it's it's it's great do you remember like

507
00:51:34.640 --> 00:51:38.960
particularly memorable like as a film fan yourself I mean I mean and if I mean if I was there

508
00:51:39.040 --> 00:51:43.040
yeah yeah yeah I wouldn't be able to help myself asking about Kubrick and I was wide shut off

509
00:51:43.040 --> 00:51:47.520
yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly do you remember any memorable stories he would tell you about

510
00:51:47.520 --> 00:51:52.320
you know the movies he's made he would always talk about when he was in taps and how he

511
00:51:53.680 --> 00:52:02.960
had a tiny part but he was so committed and so enthusiastic and so interested to learn that the

512
00:52:03.040 --> 00:52:09.360
director kind of took him under his wing and Harold Becker was the director of taps and showed him

513
00:52:10.080 --> 00:52:17.600
you know how a film worked and things like on top gun he wanted to be a producer I think he

514
00:52:17.600 --> 00:52:24.000
wanted to be a producer no well he wanted to be more involved in in the in the kind of production

515
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:31.120
decisions on top gun with Jerry Bruckheimer and was really keen to ride with the the blue angels

516
00:52:31.120 --> 00:52:36.160
who were the equivalent of the red arrows here and got to ride with them as part of his training

517
00:52:36.160 --> 00:52:43.600
and stuff like that I mean it's just it was just talking about when he did Rain Man Rain Man

518
00:52:44.080 --> 00:52:49.200
right was the number one movie of the year when it came out and it won best picture and

519
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:55.280
and he would tell me quite a lot how him and Dustin Hoffman would be rewriting script pages and

520
00:52:55.360 --> 00:53:00.640
trying out different ideas and sometimes they would just swap the characters around in the scene

521
00:53:00.640 --> 00:53:08.320
and you know you play Rain Man and I'll play you know and and how they how they found that movie in

522
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:13.680
the edit and stuff was very very interesting and can you imagine a film like that being the number one

523
00:53:13.680 --> 00:53:20.000
movie of the year nowadays it's astonishing the difference I know how how the world has changed

524
00:53:20.640 --> 00:53:27.120
you know but I think yeah I think Tom Cruise was just he was just such a gigantic movie start

525
00:53:27.120 --> 00:53:33.280
then because it was often top gunna come out and you know ferocious like amazing hair

526
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:37.280
you know that he had and things like that you know it's always a good yeah he's always had

527
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:42.800
really good hair exactly yeah no it's so it's yeah it's it's just a huge privilege to be to

528
00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:51.280
collaborate with him you know and plus you know he knows that I love it he knows that I'm really

529
00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:57.520
committed I think about the audience technically I work really hard to stay abreast of everything

530
00:53:57.520 --> 00:54:03.120
and to be you know I try and be like I get up every morning I'm thinking how can I be the best

531
00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:08.160
in the world at this thing which is incredibly subjective who can decide who the best in the

532
00:54:08.160 --> 00:54:14.080
world is but it's not a bad thing to aim for you know and I remember doing that even when I was

533
00:54:14.080 --> 00:54:18.000
you know when I started out making tea I was like I've just got to be the best at this

534
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:22.320
and I've got to learn faster and I've got to learn everything and I've got to I've got to

535
00:54:24.080 --> 00:54:29.280
just have everything at my fingertips so when I get an opportunity I can do it and I can do it

536
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:35.920
really fast you know that's the thing is is being able to edit as fast as someone can speak

537
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:41.280
behind you if a director or a producer is talking and they're saying try this try this try this

538
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:46.720
and by the time they finish speaking you can five seconds later you press play and it's done

539
00:54:46.720 --> 00:54:52.240
that's really what you should be aiming for as you're kind of editorial skill my friend Evan

540
00:54:52.240 --> 00:55:00.400
Schiff was the editor on Frankenstein and he had worked as an assistant editor on Hell by 2 with

541
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:05.840
Guillermo Dottoro but never as an editor with him and he got the job on Frankenstein and Guillermo's

542
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:14.160
what he liked to do is he liked to work for two to three hours before call on the scenes from

543
00:55:14.160 --> 00:55:23.360
the day before so Evan would have to have an aversion of all the scenes done and then at like

544
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:27.520
five in the morning and then all four in the morning and then Guillermo Dottoro would come in

545
00:55:27.520 --> 00:55:32.000
and sit with him and work with him for two to three hours before they started filming that day

546
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:37.360
so that he can have all the scenes from the previous day edited and that was very very intense

547
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:44.240
for Evan and he had to work insanely hard and quite often the crew Guillermo would invite the crew

548
00:55:44.240 --> 00:55:49.040
to sit in with Evan he was like if anyone wants to watch editing you guys can all come tomorrow at

549
00:55:49.040 --> 00:55:54.400
five a.m. and sit in the edit room before we get and the next day there was like 12 crew members

550
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:59.760
there keen to sit in the trailer and work wow and so they got to see how fast Evan had to do

551
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:05.680
stuff and rebuild the scenes and find different shots and trim and cut and extend and put music in

552
00:56:05.680 --> 00:56:14.320
and stuff and and really got a new perspective on just what an editor does because no one on the

553
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:19.280
crew knows what an editor does you know really because they they just roll from production to

554
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:25.200
production you know on on set and they don't get to spend that much time in editorial and it's

555
00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:31.440
months after they finished filming that we're that we're working on the film but yeah so you do

556
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:38.000
have to be fast technically fast as well you know and I think Tom and McHugh value that

557
00:56:38.640 --> 00:56:44.000
nerdiness that I have as well you know because they share it yeah they share it but they know that

558
00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:51.040
I'm like a real nerd technically and computer wise you know and I always quite enjoyed working

559
00:56:51.040 --> 00:56:56.880
with computers but being you know it's like playing a musical instrument when you're editing

560
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:05.200
you know and that's the instrument that I've chosen to kind of be good at I guess I've I must be

561
00:57:05.200 --> 00:57:10.320
it I mean well I don't know how many 80,000 hours or 100,000 hours or where it is that I've done

562
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:18.560
now you know of of editing so it's all second nature and very fast and the muscle memory is really

563
00:57:18.560 --> 00:57:23.680
great now so yeah I don't really think about it when I'm doing it you just do it and with the

564
00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:29.680
so so looking back through the your back catalog I mean so many great films so many great sequences

565
00:57:29.680 --> 00:57:34.000
more to the point and you've you've edited so many brilliant action sequences and you even sort

566
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:38.480
of touched on a couple of them there like the helicopter chase and initiative fallout which I

567
00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:43.280
think arguably might be has it is a contender for best telecopter action sequence in cinema yeah

568
00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:47.040
it's contender very possibly yeah possibly yeah and I think and then there's just a couple I'd

569
00:57:47.040 --> 00:57:50.720
I wrote down here a couple of sort of sequences that you've edited over years and just sort of

570
00:57:50.720 --> 00:57:54.320
if you would mind like taking us down through your maybe your memories of cutting them and your

571
00:57:54.320 --> 00:58:00.400
process so going back to your working relationship with Matthew Vaughan Kingsman yeah so I mean there

572
00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:05.360
are so many great fight scenes in Kingsman action scenes like the scene between Colin Firth and the

573
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:11.680
the kind of the local hoods in the pub yeah do you remember your yeah so that so that scene and

574
00:58:11.680 --> 00:58:19.440
the church fight have both been stunt-fist by a a fight designical Brad Allen oh great genius

575
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:27.360
fight designer who sadly is no longer with us but he would stunt-fist these sequences and that

576
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:32.160
means he would film them on a video camera and kind of build a version of the scene so that Matthew

577
00:58:32.160 --> 00:58:39.840
would approve it and for that scene in the pub and for the scene in the church I was there on

578
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:48.320
the set and I was cutting the video tap and Brad was directing because he had designed the scenes

579
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:54.320
and Matthew was happy to delegate you know and give give him Colin Firth for for a week I think

580
00:58:54.320 --> 00:59:01.680
it was about five days to shoot the pub fight and about 12 days to shoot the the church fight if

581
00:59:01.680 --> 00:59:09.520
I remember rightly but um we were on the set and we didn't need Taran Egerton that much so Taran

582
00:59:09.520 --> 00:59:14.000
could go and film other stuff and there was certain angles where you see Taran in the wide shots

583
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:20.160
behind but there's a lot of the kind of ultra slow-mo coverage and the very specific little details

584
00:59:20.160 --> 00:59:26.320
on the umbrella and things like that where we didn't need Taran but Colin was there for all of

585
00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:31.760
that you know he insisted on doing everything and was in very very very good physical shape

586
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:43.280
and I think that all that design and the kind of you know the exact timing of the the fight scene

587
00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:48.240
you know I remember building it every day as they were shooting it and there was a template

588
00:59:48.240 --> 00:59:53.360
that the stunt team had already designed so it wasn't all my ideas you know I was building off

589
00:59:53.360 --> 01:00:01.360
the back of what they had designed and and the stunt the stunt vis edit that they had um it did

590
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:07.040
evolve and refine and get and get improved you know when we got the music on it and stuff um

591
01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:15.520
but I remember I was like if we can pull this off it will just be very satisfying and great fun

592
01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:19.600
for the audience to watch this and to see what the umbrella can do and all the different

593
01:00:19.600 --> 01:00:24.560
Kingsman gadgets with his watch and the handcuffs and all that fun stuff you know um

594
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:32.240
you know the magnetic handcuffs that he fires at the bar things like that um and you know

595
01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:38.320
that that scene always worked pretty much you know I remember us working on the manners make

596
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:43.520
if man bit a lot you know when he walks over and locks the door we shot that so many times with

597
01:00:43.520 --> 01:00:48.560
so many different options to get the reflections you know because he uses that he's looking at

598
01:00:48.560 --> 01:00:53.280
reflection in the sign you know the guys behind him and things like that and like lining up when

599
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:59.040
he's going to do the thing with the beer glass I will say that at the end when Exy goes back at the

600
01:00:59.040 --> 01:01:03.760
very end of Kingsman and does the same thing that was a pickup because we did not have that in the

601
01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:11.280
original script and the the audience wanted to see Exy go back and deal with the bully you know who

602
01:01:11.600 --> 01:01:18.000
who was with his mum and and kind of dress up and take the bully out and so that was a pickup

603
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:23.360
and they rebuilt the set of the pub to go back and shoot that ending with Exy doing the same move with

604
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:28.800
the with the umbrella and the beer glass and again but it is so satisfying and totally works at

605
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:37.440
the end of the film you know um and then the church fight was in a real church in all the shots

606
01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:43.200
it was a military base and and we were there but the thing about that scene is it was all shot out of

607
01:01:43.200 --> 01:01:50.160
order it was shot based on how many crowd they needed for each shot so we would do smaller shots and

608
01:01:50.160 --> 01:01:54.640
then there would be one day we would do all the bit the shots where we would need all the crowd

609
01:01:54.640 --> 01:02:02.800
and it was about 24 pieces that fight all stitched together and I think we cut out about four or

610
01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:09.200
five pieces which were even more intensely violent than what you see but the audience was like

611
01:02:09.200 --> 01:02:16.240
it's too much it's too much so even then it was too much and so but what we did is originally it was

612
01:02:16.240 --> 01:02:22.880
designed as one shot but actually we cut away to Sam Jackson watching and Exy watching and so we

613
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:27.760
were able to kind of take bits out of the fight and and hide you know remove pieces that we didn't

614
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:35.120
but originally it was just going to be Colin doing the whole thing in one shot but the it's not

615
01:02:35.120 --> 01:02:43.600
emotional you know seeing Exy reacts to it is very emotional and seeing how Valentine is reacting

616
01:02:43.600 --> 01:02:48.240
you know Sam Jackson is reacting to his plans exceeding or failing it's very important

617
01:02:49.520 --> 01:02:53.840
you know to the audience is emotionally engagement which is why we ended up cutting away to them

618
01:02:53.840 --> 01:03:02.880
when we did um but again it was and this is before obviously you know now in extraction two they

619
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:08.560
have a 22 minute one which is way more ambitious than what we did in Kingsman but at the time

620
01:03:08.560 --> 01:03:13.040
I remember it being you know whenever we would get to that point in the movie the audience would

621
01:03:13.040 --> 01:03:19.520
just sit there and stun silence at the end because it was quite extraordinary watching Colin

622
01:03:19.520 --> 01:03:25.200
Firth do that stuff you know but it was all to be to credit to Matthew Vaughn it was always idea

623
01:03:25.200 --> 01:03:32.320
the idea the the the concept of taking the star of Bridget Jones and putting him in an action movie

624
01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:40.160
and kicking ass you know was was Matthew's idea along with Mark Miller they worked on it together

625
01:03:40.160 --> 01:03:48.080
you know Mark Miller who wrote the comic book yeah but it all you know it it like a lot of things

626
01:03:48.080 --> 01:03:53.040
starts out longer and gets tighter and more exciting and then you know and you do and there was

627
01:03:53.040 --> 01:03:58.480
some stuff that with Michael Cain that we ended up cutting out there was one scene in Kingsman

628
01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:06.080
where we were going to flash back to Michael Cain as you know from the 60s you know in his

629
01:04:06.080 --> 01:04:13.360
Alfie days but they didn't have the the aging technology quite done then because it was 2014

630
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:18.400
when we did it and there was one visual effects company who thought they could do it and we film

631
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:23.440
the whole scene with Michael Cain where he was going to be de-aged but it didn't work out and so we

632
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:28.720
ended up cutting the scene but of course you know you watched Guardians 2 and you see Kurt Russell

633
01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:36.000
I mean it's it's flawless he looks like 1982 Kurt Russell from the thing doesn't he it's it's

634
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:40.160
I remember seeing that and thinking my word they've really cracked it you know in films like that

635
01:04:40.240 --> 01:04:46.560
but we hadn't done it so some of Michael Cain scenes got cut out of the first Kingsman

636
01:04:46.560 --> 01:04:52.080
but it all worked you know what we needed you know all worked fine yeah I'm kind of surprised to

637
01:04:52.080 --> 01:04:56.800
hear the church right scene was even more violent I know I know so I have it on a hard drive

638
01:04:56.800 --> 01:05:04.160
somewhere the kind of unedited full length version it was only like 12 or 15 seconds more you know

639
01:05:04.160 --> 01:05:09.440
but there was stuff where yeah there was stuff where the audience was like no that's too much you

640
01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:16.960
know and Matthew likes to push things because he likes to give audiences a reason to see the movie

641
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:23.600
which is you won't believe what you see in this film you know and to get characters to say and do

642
01:05:23.600 --> 01:05:27.840
things which are quite outrageous which are talk which people talk about at the end of the movie

643
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:33.680
but it's what differentiates a movie from a TV show is the fact that you can do things in movies

644
01:05:33.680 --> 01:05:40.640
that are really extraordinary and people are like you have to see this it's not you just have to

645
01:05:40.640 --> 01:05:46.080
see it you know and you could never get away with that on a TV show I mean maybe you could now but you

646
01:05:46.080 --> 01:05:53.280
know um yeah back then I remember and and it was very exciting because it was this British action

647
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:59.440
movie when we tested the film in America it tested incredibly well and then when we released it

648
01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:04.960
on Valentine's Day I I was astonished you know it opened to like 45 million dollars or something

649
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:11.840
which was astonishingly high for this kind of movie and then went on to do like 450 million worldwide

650
01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:17.280
which you know I think it surprised even the guys at 20th century Fox that it was that popular

651
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:24.400
but there's something about the Britishness of these movies which has a worldwide appeal you know

652
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:30.320
the kind of British aristocracy you know and people still go to the Kingsman shop on Savile Road they've

653
01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:36.320
left the brass plaque up the the actual shop is called Huntsman but they've left the Kingsman plaque

654
01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:42.320
up outside so people can go and take photos with it and stuff and there's hundreds of people every day

655
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:47.600
who go and get selfies with the Kingsman plaque still you know it's a shame they didn't like convert

656
01:06:47.680 --> 01:06:54.240
the basement of the shop to sell Kingsman spy gadgets because it would be a hugely entertaining

657
01:06:54.240 --> 01:06:59.200
day out to go and like check out the cigarette lighters and the the cufflinks and the umbrellas

658
01:06:59.200 --> 01:07:05.680
and the watches and all that stuff you know would just be so much fun to to sell in a real shop

659
01:07:05.680 --> 01:07:10.800
but anyway there we go alas alas yeah all right we actually a recently we had Jack Davenport the

660
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:15.040
actor on the podcast who is in Kingsman he is in a scene and he yeah yeah yeah and he was telling me

661
01:07:15.040 --> 01:07:20.000
a story about how he would be she felt rehearsing his scene his fight scene where he goes to rescue

662
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:25.440
Mark Hamill and yes and he would be rehearsing in like a big sort of soundstage and down the other

663
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:29.360
end Colin Firth was rehearsing his fight scenes yeah and they were meet up in the middle at lunch

664
01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:34.000
they would both say what are we the us two sort of kind of fairly middle-aged he very English bloke

665
01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:38.160
doing in this sort of massive action yeah he was there were both kind of laughing about it

666
01:07:38.160 --> 01:07:43.600
no I know but it was yeah he was great he wasn't in the movie for very long was he Jack Davenport but

667
01:07:43.600 --> 01:07:48.640
you know he did that scene and yeah I remember that was in the shallow at the beginning yeah he

668
01:07:48.640 --> 01:07:59.120
was terrific really nice really like a very incredibly kind professional gentleman you know

669
01:07:59.120 --> 01:08:04.800
when I work when I met him yeah absolutely so that's Kingsman as a sequence and then the next one

670
01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:09.280
I got written down is as we've already mentioned the mission impossible fallout helicopter chase yeah

671
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:14.720
as I say contender I think for best helicopter chase and screen yeah and action set piece I mean

672
01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:20.720
I can't even imagine the shooting but the editing of that yeah the angles the amount of footage

673
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:28.640
I mean what was that like to come they they shot if I remember rightly they shot the helicopter

674
01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:36.640
chase over 15 days in New Zealand and there was about I want to say like 80 hours of footage that

675
01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:48.320
came out of that and I the trick is 80 hours for what is nine minutes and 50 seconds in the film

676
01:08:48.320 --> 01:08:55.040
so it's quite a shooting ratio and it kind of got my honestly got my editing muscles ready for

677
01:08:55.040 --> 01:09:01.200
doing top guns straight after where the shooting ratio was way higher than that you know 800 hours

678
01:09:01.200 --> 01:09:07.760
for two hours two hours and 20 minutes of movie or whatever it was bonkers but so they shot it

679
01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:13.120
in New Zealand they shot it with small digital cameras the rest of the movie was shot on 35 mil

680
01:09:13.120 --> 01:09:20.640
but the helicopter chase was shot digitally mainly because they needed the cameras to kind of run

681
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:27.360
for 40 minutes you know because film cameras can run for 10 minutes and and they could they weren't

682
01:09:27.360 --> 01:09:36.080
they were light enough to not affect the aerodynamics of the helicopter too much and but I remember

683
01:09:36.080 --> 01:09:39.840
seeing all this footage coming in and just thinking my word this is going to take a while to go

684
01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:48.320
through so what I did is there wasn't a gigantic mad rush to assemble it all so I would break it

685
01:09:48.320 --> 01:09:54.560
down but what I would do is so I started breaking it down on the plane back from from New Zealand I

686
01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:59.280
remember sitting with my laptop on the you know it's like a 28 hour flight back so I remember

687
01:09:59.280 --> 01:10:03.680
working on my laptop for a very long time just slowly starting to go through the footage

688
01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:09.520
and they would they would usually have two cameras going sometimes three but mostly two cameras

689
01:10:09.520 --> 01:10:14.880
going so there'd be two cameras inside the helicopter or two cameras mounted in Tom's helicopter

690
01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:19.920
and then another like an air-to-wear filming and sometimes they would have ground cameras as well

691
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:28.400
but not very often and so I spent what I did was I worked I got home and then I would

692
01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:36.160
I would watch helicopter dailies for the air in 20 minutes that it would take me to get from home

693
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:42.880
to leaves and studios or you were filming and so every morning I'd get in the car at 20 past six

694
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:46.960
and I'd work for an hour and a half going through helicopter footage on the way there and then

695
01:10:46.960 --> 01:10:50.720
I would work for an hour and a half on the way back going through helicopter footage and then

696
01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:56.640
during the day I would just work on what they'd filmed the day before the actual movie footage and

697
01:10:58.080 --> 01:11:03.200
it took me about four months to go through just the helicopter footage doing it in the mornings and

698
01:11:03.200 --> 01:11:08.400
in the evenings and then at four months to build to go through the footage and build a first

699
01:11:08.400 --> 01:11:16.080
assembly of the sequence and a lot of it with these scenes is you don't quite know what you're going

700
01:11:16.080 --> 01:11:21.920
to get so you're actually just looking to see what the most dynamic stuff is and then you're

701
01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:27.840
incorporating those shots so and you're putting in all the kind of seven out of 10 shots and the

702
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:33.360
eight out of 10 shots knowing that eventually when you compress the seven out of 10 and the eight

703
01:11:33.360 --> 01:11:37.760
of 10 shots just pop out of the timeline because they're not as good and you end up with just nine

704
01:11:37.760 --> 01:11:43.520
out of 10 and 10 out of 10 and then you end up with all like most of the nine out of 10 shots get

705
01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:47.680
ejected from the timeline and you just end with the 10 out of 10 shots but there is

706
01:11:49.360 --> 01:11:56.560
you know some of the sequences would start out you know like the very famous one is the one

707
01:11:56.560 --> 01:12:02.080
right near the beginning where you know Ethan does the kind of death spiral down into the valley

708
01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:08.880
and the Henry Cavill's firing gun and he's got the the detonator around his neck and Ethan is

709
01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:13.920
just speeding down this valley in the helicopter and the first assembly of that scene was about a

710
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:19.840
minute and 40 seconds I remember I had 15 hours of dailies and I got it down to a minute and 40

711
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:26.800
seconds and it was it was the best stuff in this in out of the 15 hours I was like Chris you can

712
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:32.400
watch the 15 hours or this is a minute and 40 and then we got it down to 40 seconds for the first

713
01:12:32.400 --> 01:12:39.680
preview that we did and then in the movie it's 11 seconds so 15 hours down to 11 seconds

714
01:12:40.240 --> 01:12:46.400
and and that's just the yeah I mean that's not even the 10 out of 10 shots that's like 10% out

715
01:12:46.400 --> 01:12:52.800
of the 10 out of 10 shots I mean you got so tight by the end but you're feeling your way through it

716
01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:57.360
when you're building those big third acts set pieces and you're into cutting with you know

717
01:12:57.440 --> 01:13:04.080
Ilsa and Benji fighting Lane and you're into cutting with you know it's Luther and Julia

718
01:13:04.080 --> 01:13:09.120
do you know defusing the bomb so you've got like you're into cutting with all these different

719
01:13:09.120 --> 01:13:15.440
stories and you're trying to keep the banter alive you know when Ethan first gets in the helicopter

720
01:13:15.440 --> 01:13:20.240
he's like how's it going if you've found the bomb yet and and where are you Ethan I'm in a

721
01:13:20.240 --> 01:13:24.240
helicopter and they're like what you can fly a helicopter what are you doing in a helicopter

722
01:13:24.240 --> 01:13:28.800
you know he's like don't worry about me I'll figure it out you know and all that kind of fun

723
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:34.480
team banter that you watch a mission impossible movie for you know we're trying to incorporate

724
01:13:34.480 --> 01:13:38.800
and then you're and then you're and then Ethan's out of radio range and they're just having to

725
01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:43.440
trust that he's going to do it so you've got that great stuff of Benji going don't worry he will do

726
01:13:43.440 --> 01:13:48.080
it he will do it and you know that he's climbing up a mountain at the things on the top and how is

727
01:13:48.080 --> 01:13:52.880
he ever going to get there and he's only got like five seconds left to pull the detonator out

728
01:13:52.880 --> 01:14:03.360
and but that the the helicopter sequence if you watch the first assembly it was long and really

729
01:14:03.360 --> 01:14:09.040
boring right but it was the it was just the process you just start and it's long and boring and

730
01:14:09.040 --> 01:14:15.360
then slowly it gets tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter and and we ended up putting quite a

731
01:14:15.360 --> 01:14:22.560
bit of music on the helicopter chase because helicopters don't sound that interesting over

732
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:27.760
prolonged periods of time so we did use quite a bit of music but I remember that stuff

733
01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:33.840
you know when Ethan's got the payload and he's like trying to line it up above and like drop it

734
01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:38.880
on Henry Cavill's helicopter remember when they filmed that they did that for real they literally

735
01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:45.920
had a payload dangling down and they had another helicopter I was just nuts but they were they filmed

736
01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:50.080
it over several days because the weather wasn't right and they went and Chris McCrory wanted to

737
01:14:50.080 --> 01:14:56.640
get the sign exactly the right place in the sky so it reflected off the water and so you you know

738
01:14:56.640 --> 01:15:03.600
it's it's my massively time consuming to do this stuff and it just took months of refining

739
01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:09.200
all of these scenes and then the and the other thing about that sequence is when the detonator

740
01:15:09.200 --> 01:15:17.280
starts counting down it's 15 minutes right and so you know that the end of the movie is the

741
01:15:17.280 --> 01:15:23.040
movie is going to wrap up within 15 minutes but in the in the actual runtime of the movie it's

742
01:15:23.040 --> 01:15:29.280
22 minutes okay and so it's a bit of a cheat but we are aware of that and then McEw in one of the

743
01:15:29.280 --> 01:15:33.360
test screenings Chris said do you know what we should probably make it say 20 minutes so it's

744
01:15:33.360 --> 01:15:38.320
less of a cheat for the audience so it's an actual reflection of how long is left in the movie

745
01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:44.000
I said my prediction is the audience will kick up a fuss that it's 20 minutes

746
01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:50.480
and they'll say it's too long and I'll go through and I'll change all the shots like I'll change

747
01:15:50.480 --> 01:15:56.320
the 40 shots which to have a time so that it's updated and we planned it out for 20 minutes

748
01:15:56.320 --> 01:16:00.640
and sure enough we screened the movie and everyone went 20 minutes is way too long it's just

749
01:16:00.640 --> 01:16:06.080
it's it goes on forever and then we just changed the time of back to 15 minutes and then everyone

750
01:16:06.080 --> 01:16:10.320
thought it was perfect so it was just the fact that we were telling them that it was 20 minutes

751
01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:15.680
when you're hitting the two hour mark in a movie and you're telling people there's 20 minutes

752
01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:21.200
to go they're a bit like okay this is but 15 minutes is just like a psychological it's fine

753
01:16:21.200 --> 01:16:26.400
we can we can hold our bladder for another 15 minutes that that was a little story about that scene

754
01:16:27.440 --> 01:16:37.760
but yeah and I just remember it taking forever and slowly refining it over months and months

755
01:16:37.760 --> 01:16:42.880
of editing and the other thing that happened if you remember on Fallout is that Tom Cruise broke his

756
01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:48.960
ankle jumping between two buildings yeah so we had eight weeks where he was recovering where we

757
01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:54.080
could just edit the film and we were able to look at it and figure out a lot of things and a lot

758
01:16:54.080 --> 01:16:59.760
of the third act was built in that hiatus when Tom had hurt his ankle and was recovering

759
01:17:00.960 --> 01:17:07.600
was healing so that was that was actually quite beneficial in some ways that we we had that time

760
01:17:08.400 --> 01:17:14.800
to to confront the movie and figure out what was working one of the things that we discovered

761
01:17:15.120 --> 01:17:21.200
I think this is in the directors commentary but when you first meet Vanessa Kirby as the white

762
01:17:21.200 --> 01:17:27.040
widow in Fallout she's in that nightclub you know like Ethan and Ilsa go they walk down that kind

763
01:17:27.040 --> 01:17:32.480
of mirrored hallway and they walk into this little kind of private nightclub area where the white

764
01:17:32.480 --> 01:17:39.440
widow is singing and yeah originally she was singing a song and we had a whole musical number there

765
01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:45.760
and but it it was just too long and and it was a great way to introduce her but it was just too

766
01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:52.880
long so then we made this whole speech about her mum and we incorporated the fact that she was the

767
01:17:54.640 --> 01:17:58.560
you know the mother of the character from the first movie you know played I'm trying to remember

768
01:17:59.200 --> 01:18:07.120
she was called oh god I'm I'm my mission impossible trivia is failing me I know you mean

769
01:18:07.120 --> 01:18:12.400
though yeah yeah yeah max that's right the characters called max in the first movie and so if

770
01:18:12.400 --> 01:18:18.400
you're a fan you realize oh it's her daughter you know so but all that dialogue was added afterwards

771
01:18:18.400 --> 01:18:23.680
she's actually singing a song through that whole scene so we we made it and we played a lot of it

772
01:18:23.680 --> 01:18:31.280
on Tom looking you know walking around and watching and so we we we replaced the song with ADR

773
01:18:31.360 --> 01:18:36.720
from her and dramatically shortened it so that Tom got over to the bar and she kind of walked up

774
01:18:36.720 --> 01:18:41.840
to him much quicker that that was one little anecdote I remember there was so many of those things

775
01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:47.680
where we we discover it and changes get made and but ultimately the it all worked so it was fine

776
01:18:47.680 --> 01:18:53.440
yeah the film is the film isn't exactly as a view because I recently actually finished I show

777
01:18:53.440 --> 01:18:57.360
I show my girlfriend to have never seen the mission possible films any of them I show I we watch

778
01:18:57.360 --> 01:19:02.560
them all holy smokes that is quite a commitment yeah over the course for about two weeks and she

779
01:19:02.560 --> 01:19:05.600
absolutely loved them and fall out I remember when we got to fall out because what that's my favorite

780
01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:09.360
and I'm just so excited to show her yeah and as you say like all these fascinating hearing all these

781
01:19:09.360 --> 01:19:13.600
stories did she think the bomb had gone off at the beginning at you did she believe it you mean

782
01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:17.840
when he's in the when they they've got the guy in the guy yeah and and you see the guy on the news

783
01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:22.720
and he's talking about the holy sites that have been bombed yeah yeah yeah you've got all blitz I

784
01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:27.360
know it's very very it's a brilliant mouse trap scene that isn't it yeah it's a hell of a way to

785
01:19:27.360 --> 01:19:33.040
open the movie it's so mission impossible and it's it's so contained because it's just four people

786
01:19:33.040 --> 01:19:38.000
in a room and yet the stakes are so high and it's so clever the way they get the guy to unlock his

787
01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:43.840
phone yeah and it's so satisfying when the walls fall back and you're like oh well done we're in

788
01:19:43.840 --> 01:19:49.280
a mission impossible possible movie they they've got the guy yeah and Tom's always like he always

789
01:19:49.280 --> 01:19:55.120
wants to he always wants the the characters to feel the burn he was like I want to feel the guy

790
01:19:55.120 --> 01:20:01.280
feeling that Ethan and the team have outwitted him so you know we make sure that you see him reacting

791
01:20:01.280 --> 01:20:06.400
and like feeling like oh shit he's just screwed himself yeah by unlocking his phone and he thought

792
01:20:06.400 --> 01:20:11.520
he was totally on top of the situation and had everything oh it's just so good yeah I love it yeah

793
01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:15.520
yeah it works so brilliantly and then when we got to helicopter chase sequence she was like no

794
01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:22.720
no what the fuck why I know and he did all he did it all he flew all of it it's nuts

795
01:20:23.120 --> 01:20:27.040
because the because the drop when he's climbing that that opened the helicopter he drops I know

796
01:20:27.040 --> 01:20:31.600
it was a real job that was not please 100% he did that no no he planned for it and he's

797
01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:36.720
wearing yeah he's wearing a safety cable right which is painted out but it's only one cable

798
01:20:36.720 --> 01:20:42.000
and he can seriously injure himself you know but yeah and then he did the massive climb up you

799
01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:45.920
know he did that whole thing and again you're waiting for the light to be just right because the way

800
01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:50.960
the sun is is and the sky and he's got the two helicopters and it's just tiny Ethan hunt like

801
01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:55.760
climbing up the rope and then you've got the great humor at the top where he reappears and the guys

802
01:20:55.760 --> 01:21:02.400
like what and he punches him and then he has to kind of get through the pilot out as well you know

803
01:21:02.400 --> 01:21:06.800
oh my word yeah and as an editor like how do you stay kind of when you're editing those

804
01:21:06.800 --> 01:21:11.440
sequences like how do you stay kind of sane because like you're you're working with footage that

805
01:21:11.440 --> 01:21:16.000
is obviously costing millions of dollars to get yeah and then you're and you're the guy who is

806
01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:20.720
there saying like we we've got it or we haven't yeah that shot isn't working we need to do it again

807
01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:25.840
yeah and like and as you say the editor has a huge amount of power yeah because you know he the

808
01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:30.240
editor isn't is the one person in arguably who doesn't have to be on the set who can make huge

809
01:21:30.240 --> 01:21:35.760
changes after the fact yeah and the editing room I mean how do you stay I think that you you

810
01:21:37.520 --> 01:21:42.880
the the the the the millions of dollars thing the first few times you're confronted with those

811
01:21:42.880 --> 01:21:49.440
decisions it's quite overwhelming but I'd seen Lee Smith do things like that on X-Men first class

812
01:21:49.440 --> 01:21:53.760
where he would just put the film first and go we need to do this again it's not right and of course

813
01:21:53.760 --> 01:21:58.160
it is cheaper to do it again then when the sets there and when the actors are there then to come

814
01:21:58.160 --> 01:22:02.880
back you know six months later and do it and there were several times on fallout I remember where

815
01:22:02.880 --> 01:22:08.960
I would say I don't think we've got this yet and we need these pickups and things like that yeah I

816
01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:15.120
I guess you just put the film first and and the more you do it the more you trust your spidey

817
01:22:15.120 --> 01:22:23.040
sense about these things you know so I do really trust my senses now and if I feel something isn't

818
01:22:23.040 --> 01:22:27.760
right I will feel pretty confident in putting my hand up and saying this is not telling the

819
01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:33.040
story that we we need it to tell or it looks flat and dull and you need to do it with better light

820
01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:38.240
you know and the scene in Top Gun Maverick you know the iconic shot where he's riding the motorbike

821
01:22:38.240 --> 01:22:45.120
next to the F-18 you know they did that I want to say five times because the weather the sun

822
01:22:45.120 --> 01:22:51.040
wasn't right or it was overcast or the the position of the jet wasn't you know and when they

823
01:22:51.040 --> 01:22:55.520
eventually dialed it in and got it and the sun was just right in that magic hour place and the

824
01:22:55.520 --> 01:23:02.320
plane flies through and it's just perfect everyone was like we got it but it took like many attempts

825
01:23:02.320 --> 01:23:06.720
until we got the perfect Top Gun shot so the helicopter chase kind of teased me up quite nicely

826
01:23:06.720 --> 01:23:10.960
for the next sequences I wanted to ask you about which is and we've mentioned Top Gun Maverick

827
01:23:10.960 --> 01:23:15.280
quite a few times in this conversation already but like those bombing rungs run sequences which

828
01:23:15.280 --> 01:23:20.880
are just extraordinary yeah and Tom is in the jet flying the jet yeah which is still unbelievable to

829
01:23:20.880 --> 01:23:25.920
me when I watch it back and as you say the Herculean task of sifting through all that foot yeah

830
01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:31.760
I mean what was the process like for cutting those sequences I remember it's unbelievably time

831
01:23:31.760 --> 01:23:38.640
consuming I mean because you're looking at you're looking at I mean some days they had so many

832
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:43.520
cameras running I mean maybe like 18 cameras running because they would have six cameras inside

833
01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:50.640
on Tom and six cameras inside on you know any of the other actors whether it's you know rooster

834
01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:57.200
or payback or fanboy or phoenix or bobble whatever and then and then they would have exterior cameras

835
01:23:57.200 --> 01:24:01.280
the cameras like locked onto the planes you know on the belly of the plane and stuff and then they

836
01:24:01.280 --> 01:24:07.200
would have air to air cameras and you can only plan so much you're only going to get what you're

837
01:24:07.200 --> 01:24:15.520
going to get but I remember just to build so even so from the moment they take off from the aircraft

838
01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:22.640
carrier to the moment that Ethan is Ethan Maverick is shot down right and and you end on that shot

839
01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:27.440
of Miles Teller the kind of long shot where he's like what do I do what do I do the cameras just

840
01:24:27.440 --> 01:24:32.800
pushing in on him and he's thinking do I go and you know he's been given orders to fly back to the

841
01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:39.760
carrier or he's like do I go and save Mav that took me about three months to build a first

842
01:24:39.760 --> 01:24:48.480
pass of that scene working every day and that that was one so I remember the bit where I did seven

843
01:24:48.480 --> 01:24:54.800
seconds was where rooster okay so basically they they have to climb up and then they invert and they

844
01:24:54.800 --> 01:25:00.240
kind of do a dive over the down into the into the you know where they're doing the drop

845
01:25:00.880 --> 01:25:05.920
and so they have to they climb up they invert over and they go around I remember I had that

846
01:25:05.920 --> 01:25:10.880
covered from quite a few different angles and I had to make sure that Maverick and Phoenix's

847
01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:17.360
version felt different to rooster and paybacks version you know so I was like how do I do this

848
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:24.320
to make it so it's different for both characters and and doesn't feel like the same thing happening

849
01:25:24.400 --> 01:25:31.600
twice so it's like what how do you do that and then the the I remember the bit just before

850
01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:38.720
where where Maverick and Phoenix are going up when they do when they do the they're kind of they

851
01:25:38.720 --> 01:25:43.760
pull and they they're climbing up to go into the bowl for the first time and there's all that snow

852
01:25:43.760 --> 01:25:50.400
like firing up flying up into Phoenix's face that was originally a location that was for a whole

853
01:25:50.480 --> 01:25:55.600
different part of the sequence but whenever I put it elsewhere in the scene it just felt redundant

854
01:25:55.600 --> 01:26:01.280
and long and so I was like we should just remove the bit where they're actually climbing up and

855
01:26:01.280 --> 01:26:07.200
just use this bit with all the snow because it's really dynamic all the snow flying up you know and

856
01:26:07.200 --> 01:26:12.080
put it there instead and when once we did that that kind of unlocked quite a lot of the the pace

857
01:26:12.080 --> 01:26:16.320
of that scene so it didn't outstay it's welcome because obviously it was way longer it was like

858
01:26:16.400 --> 01:26:21.680
twice as long and boring you know it was just very boring but the other thing about

859
01:26:21.680 --> 01:26:27.200
about Top Gun Maverick is the cameras inside the plane don't move when you're looking at a pilot

860
01:26:27.200 --> 01:26:32.560
they're locked off cameras in the original Top Gun they were filmed they filmed all of that

861
01:26:32.560 --> 01:26:38.320
on rear projection stages so Tony Scott could move the cameras around the cockpit when they're

862
01:26:38.320 --> 01:26:45.920
talking and when they're fighting because they weren't actually in the air and so I would try

863
01:26:45.920 --> 01:26:51.200
the only way to create visual energy is to have the horizon moving behind them the whole time

864
01:26:51.200 --> 01:26:56.640
so they have to be moving the plane quite dramatically to get that light shift across their face

865
01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:01.200
so I was finding all the bits where the horizon would move and just putting them throughout the

866
01:27:01.200 --> 01:27:06.400
sequence regardless of what the actual geography was in that terrain so I was just trying to make it

867
01:27:06.400 --> 01:27:16.640
exciting to watch and the other thing which is interesting is the planes do not the real F18s

868
01:27:16.640 --> 01:27:22.160
did not have any munitions attached they didn't have any bombs or missiles attached at all so in

869
01:27:22.160 --> 01:27:27.200
every single shot where you see the bombs they're added with CG which is every shot of the planes

870
01:27:27.200 --> 01:27:32.400
basically and so when the bombs drop their CG and when they go into the hole and things like that

871
01:27:32.400 --> 01:27:39.840
and then the explosion but you know the high G pull up I remember then they actually did pull

872
01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:43.760
like eight or nine G's when they were doing that and then when they're doing you know when you see

873
01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:51.040
their faces that's that was pretty nuts the other thing that's quite fun as a tiny detail is when

874
01:27:51.040 --> 01:27:55.360
Maverick pulls back on his stick there's a paddle just in front that he pulls with his fingers

875
01:27:55.760 --> 01:28:02.640
right and sort of uses both hands to pull back and the paddle F18 pilots are not are never allowed

876
01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:07.920
to pull that paddle because if you pull it and you pull the stick back it will allow the F18 to

877
01:28:07.920 --> 01:28:13.520
pull more G's than its airframe can handle so it will it may break the plane basically which is what

878
01:28:14.560 --> 01:28:20.400
Maverick what what he does when he's doing the you know when he does the dry run in the desert to

879
01:28:20.400 --> 01:28:25.440
prove that it can be done he pulls the paddle and then pulls the stick back and when you watch

880
01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:30.640
the film with real F18 pilots they're so thrilled that someone gets to pull the paddle because

881
01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:36.240
they're never allowed to do it because they they would be in serious trouble if they pulled it

882
01:28:36.240 --> 01:28:42.160
because they would be breaking the plane but it's what you would actually do in that situation

883
01:28:42.160 --> 01:28:48.320
and then when they pop out of the top and the surface to where missiles start firing at them

884
01:28:48.320 --> 01:28:53.280
obviously there are no surface to where missiles there everything is CG so all those missiles

885
01:28:53.280 --> 01:29:00.800
are CG so your but the planes are real and the terrain is real so you're you're trying to imagine

886
01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:06.240
the shot that you're creating by you know by putting in so quite often I'd be running shots in

887
01:29:06.240 --> 01:29:11.680
reverse or doing all kinds of things and then say to the VFX team right put the gun turret there

888
01:29:11.680 --> 01:29:17.600
and the missiles have got to fly up and then the jets have got to and then the scene afterwards

889
01:29:17.600 --> 01:29:21.920
where all the surface to where missiles are flying up behind them and it's like you know

890
01:29:22.880 --> 01:29:27.920
they're they're pulling all they're rejecting all their flares you know dagger one defending

891
01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:34.080
dagger three defending all that stuff there were no flares so they were all having to imagine it

892
01:29:34.080 --> 01:29:39.760
and there were no surface to where missiles so every shot we were trying to kind of build like

893
01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:44.560
where would the missile be how far away is it what are the flares doing and you would just find

894
01:29:44.560 --> 01:29:50.800
the most dynamic shots of jets doing evasive maneuvers and build a sequence and then we discovered

895
01:29:50.800 --> 01:29:56.560
that and it wasn't scripted in the script it just said you know the daggers pull up and surface

896
01:29:56.560 --> 01:30:01.200
to where missiles fire at them and they they take evasive maneuvers to avoid them so there wasn't

897
01:30:01.200 --> 01:30:07.520
all the dialogue chat that's there where Mavericks going rooster you know payback and he's talking

898
01:30:07.520 --> 01:30:13.680
to the guys and he's trying to get them to to evade you know and it's all we're trying to put it in

899
01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:18.480
Mavericks point of view a lot of it so he's shouting and trying to protect his the other pilots

900
01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:25.920
and I remember there's a really great shot quite late in that scene which is a big wide

901
01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:31.120
where you see the four jets and all these explosions around them and there's a cacophony of voices

902
01:30:31.120 --> 01:30:37.040
and everyone's talking over each other and they're all shouting and I remember I was doing that

903
01:30:37.040 --> 01:30:44.880
scene in lockdown in my in my home edit suite in South London and we had recorded

904
01:30:46.240 --> 01:30:55.680
each pilot saying about 70 different things and the pilots and the the wizards you know the guys

905
01:30:55.680 --> 01:31:00.240
behind saying about 70 different things and I remember spending an entire morning going through

906
01:31:00.240 --> 01:31:05.280
all these lines of dialogue and lining them all up to create this kind of chaos and panic as

907
01:31:05.280 --> 01:31:10.320
they're all talking over each other over this big wide shot and my wife coming up and saying what

908
01:31:10.320 --> 01:31:15.600
have you been doing this morning and I play to that four seconds I was like look all these voices

909
01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:20.640
that I've done and they're all like so exciting and I you know it was so many choices that I had to

910
01:31:20.640 --> 01:31:26.960
make to get all these lines to line up and make sense and she was like okay well done darling

911
01:31:26.960 --> 01:31:31.680
all right I'll see you in a bit it just took forever and you're using your imagination a lot

912
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:37.920
because you're like also for the for the f14 fight at the end you know when the f14 is fighting

913
01:31:37.920 --> 01:31:49.680
the su 57 there's no f14s that actually fly so Tom Cruise was actually flying an f18 or he wasn't

914
01:31:49.680 --> 01:31:54.240
flying he was in the backseat but you know they him and him and rooster so Maverick and rooster were

915
01:31:54.240 --> 01:32:01.360
in an f18 and visual effects made it re-skinned it to look like an f14 inside in every single

916
01:32:01.360 --> 01:32:07.120
shot so they put the the bunny ears for the ejection handles in but so you would never know that

917
01:32:07.120 --> 01:32:18.800
they're not but and then the exterior shots we were using l39 stunt jets to so and then one of

918
01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:23.600
them would be a su 57 and one of them would be an f14 so you're taking these two black planes

919
01:32:23.600 --> 01:32:28.720
which look nothing like what you want them to be and you're having to imagine that you know they're

920
01:32:28.720 --> 01:32:33.840
doing the different maneuvers and this is going to be an f14 this is going to be a su 57 so there's

921
01:32:33.840 --> 01:32:39.200
a lot of imagination and visual effects work that has to happen before you start to even see the scene

922
01:32:39.200 --> 01:32:44.800
come together you know and again it was just months and months of work and there were there were

923
01:32:44.800 --> 01:32:50.640
other editors who came on to help me in that film Christopher Levinson came on to help and Steve

924
01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:56.000
Mirioni came on as well to help me for several months while I was I was so overwhelmed with footage

925
01:32:56.000 --> 01:33:00.320
for the end of the movie that you know Stephen came on and kind of worked on the beginning of the

926
01:33:00.320 --> 01:33:06.560
film a little bit and some of those scenes in the middle to really help help me with just the work

927
01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:12.560
load of of dailies that the were to get through very time consuming and slow and it started out

928
01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:19.440
long and boring and slowly got tighter and tighter the other thing about that scene musically is we

929
01:33:19.440 --> 01:33:25.600
have this dreaded this kind of dark pulsing kind of music playing when they take off from the

930
01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:31.280
from the from the aircraft carrier and then when they blast into enemy territory there is there no

931
01:33:31.280 --> 01:33:40.640
music playing for the whole of that trench run scene until the surface to a missile fires at rooster

932
01:33:40.640 --> 01:33:45.760
and you start and the music starts to tell you that rooster might get hit and then of course

933
01:33:45.760 --> 01:33:52.400
maverick does the cobra maneuver and does his flares and gets hit and so the music is you know we

934
01:33:52.400 --> 01:33:57.280
made the decision quite late on to just lift out all the music there and just play it with sound

935
01:33:57.280 --> 01:34:02.080
effects only but it means the music has a lot more impact when it does come in and then really the

936
01:34:02.080 --> 01:34:08.000
only time we do full on music sound effects and dialogue is for the very last fight where

937
01:34:08.800 --> 01:34:16.320
you know mavericks having to take on the the suit 57 in the you know in that kind of and yeah even

938
01:34:16.320 --> 01:34:20.720
and then and then they fly out over the sea and then the last one turns up and then they're flying

939
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:25.920
up to the sun and you think it's all over and then hangman comes in to save the day you know so

940
01:34:26.560 --> 01:34:32.080
yeah it was it was just months and months and months of work you know and Stephen Mirrioni went on to

941
01:34:32.080 --> 01:34:39.120
do f1 with jokers in ski which was the same just you know crazy amount of footage to figure out

942
01:34:39.120 --> 01:34:44.480
how to tell the story of those f1 car races so we kind of share the pain a little bit there

943
01:34:45.040 --> 01:34:50.160
if if we ever meet each other we're like oh yeah that was quite tough you know well I was going

944
01:34:50.160 --> 01:34:53.600
to ask like would you say that's the hardest sequence you've ever had to wed it or what will

945
01:34:53.600 --> 01:34:58.560
top gun is the hardest film I've ever done by many orders of magnitude I don't think I'll ever do

946
01:34:58.560 --> 01:35:05.120
something harder I think you know the biplane sequence at the end of final reckoning was a lot

947
01:35:05.120 --> 01:35:12.800
of work was very very hard but it wasn't there was a bit like the sequence itself had a linear story

948
01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:17.840
that we were telling whereas in top gun I could use the shots and put them anywhere in the scene

949
01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:22.960
to tell any bit of story that I wanted so it was just much more of a complex jigsaw and to get the

950
01:35:22.960 --> 01:35:28.640
tone of top gun right was so difficult like the movie didn't work for months and months and months

951
01:35:28.640 --> 01:35:33.360
and months and only really came together at the end when we finally figured out you know when we

952
01:35:33.360 --> 01:35:38.640
got the song from Lady Gaga and we started figuring out the score and getting everything to work

953
01:35:38.640 --> 01:35:44.160
better it was so difficult I can't tell you and also we couldn't test the film because we were in

954
01:35:44.160 --> 01:35:49.840
lockdown so we didn't know if it worked we were just going on our best guess of what it should be

955
01:35:50.720 --> 01:35:58.480
but luckily you know everyone liked the movie so I can't believe it really I remember thinking

956
01:35:58.480 --> 01:36:05.600
because I'd seen it you know 700 times and I had no idea if it worked I do actually there was one

957
01:36:05.600 --> 01:36:12.800
story where so in the in the desert trench run you know where Maverick proves to the other rookies

958
01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:19.920
that it can be done right the other top gun pilots and that scene I remember feeling pretty good

959
01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:28.560
about and we were still working on the music for it but when we first started the sound mix for

960
01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:33.680
that and I remember Chris Bird and the sound mixer the dialogue and effects mixer who oh no dialogue

961
01:36:33.680 --> 01:36:40.240
and music mixer who was working who I'd work with on Fallout he we were at Twickenham film studios

962
01:36:40.960 --> 01:36:46.160
I was in a room next to the sound stage where they were mixing and there was a knock on my door

963
01:36:46.160 --> 01:36:52.480
and Chris came in and he was just like his eyes were wide and he was breathing and he was like I've

964
01:36:52.480 --> 01:36:57.040
just seen the trench run scene where Maverick shows it can be done I've never seen anything like that

965
01:36:57.040 --> 01:37:04.160
in my life it is amazing and I had seen it 700 times so I have no clue but I remember thinking

966
01:37:04.160 --> 01:37:09.680
okay if he's feeling that and he watches a lot of stuff being a sound mixer on a movie you know

967
01:37:09.680 --> 01:37:15.440
then we're in good shape and again everyone seems to love that scene as well you know so yeah

968
01:37:15.440 --> 01:37:20.000
it's a strawberry one yeah it's great oh yeah the other thing about the the end of the movie

969
01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:26.480
the big run in the snow at the end of the movie is for ages I only had interior shots

970
01:37:26.480 --> 01:37:31.920
so they shot all the interior shots first and I had no exterior shots of the jets so I would quite

971
01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:37.440
often get two model jets on sticks and film them with my iPhone just to have something to cut

972
01:37:37.440 --> 01:37:43.520
into the sequence so you'll be watching the actual pilots flying and then you would cut and you

973
01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:49.120
would just see these two model jets on the iPhone being I was just bonkers and then months later

974
01:37:49.120 --> 01:37:56.320
they filmed the exterior shots and so you know then I would start to kind of plonk him and build oh it's

975
01:37:56.320 --> 01:38:03.600
just it's such a puzzle it's just a monumental puzzle it's not all you are figuring it out

976
01:38:04.320 --> 01:38:09.760
in the edit literally you're figuring it out live you know it's the heart like it was so hard

977
01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:15.840
I can't tell you it's just you know couldn't believe it getting an Oscar nomination was amazing for

978
01:38:15.840 --> 01:38:22.720
that you know and yeah I felt bad like I couldn't share it with the other two editors who helped

979
01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:30.160
me on the movie but you know I was yeah it was just those movies never get nominated for Oscars

980
01:38:30.160 --> 01:38:35.200
those kind of crowd-pleasing movies it's very rare that they get you know none of the Harry Potter's

981
01:38:35.200 --> 01:38:41.360
got nominated none of the Avengers movies got nominated and they are amazing Infinity War and End

982
01:38:41.360 --> 01:38:47.520
Game are amazing masterpieces of editing should have gotten Oscar nomination for editing didn't

983
01:38:47.520 --> 01:38:51.840
Black Panther did obviously because Black Panther was the only one that seemed to break through

984
01:38:51.840 --> 01:38:57.520
with the academy but so when you work on these films you never expect to get any awards recognition

985
01:38:57.600 --> 01:39:04.400
so it's astonishing that some of us did on the top gun you know nuts but I'm you know it was

986
01:39:04.400 --> 01:39:12.560
such a privilege to be part of it yeah it was crazy yeah and the proof is in the pudding I mean

987
01:39:12.560 --> 01:39:16.640
it's not any it's a brilliantly made film and a beautifully edited film and it all works all

988
01:39:16.640 --> 01:39:22.640
meshes yeah amazingly it all came together somehow yeah I mean you've worked

989
01:39:22.640 --> 01:39:26.960
of so many amazing people any over your career on that film Kaczynski and Cruz and then Macquarie

990
01:39:26.960 --> 01:39:30.560
and Vaughn I mean is there anyone out there and you're obviously clearly such a film fan I mean

991
01:39:30.560 --> 01:39:35.840
is there anyone out there who you'd love to work with James Cameron Peter Jackson Steven Spill

992
01:39:36.560 --> 01:39:41.360
you know just the three greatest living visuals I like Oliver Stone I love as well like I'd

993
01:39:41.360 --> 01:39:47.600
love to work with Oliver Stone but yeah let's just aim for the top right I think honestly I don't

994
01:39:47.600 --> 01:39:52.720
know I mean I think the the odds of working with any of them are kind of vanishing me small because

995
01:39:52.720 --> 01:39:57.040
they have everybody they want to do but Peter Jackson's doing two new Lord of the Rings films

996
01:39:57.040 --> 01:40:02.720
yes so who knows what could happen there you know I don't know who they've got to edit those

997
01:40:02.720 --> 01:40:07.440
movies but that would be fun to be in middle earth my word that's how we'd be insane to work with

998
01:40:07.440 --> 01:40:14.400
that team yeah and and start and being a Star Wars fan as well yeah of course here's so if you

999
01:40:14.400 --> 01:40:21.760
really want here's here's an amazing story for you so when I was doing that trench run scene

1000
01:40:21.760 --> 01:40:30.000
on top gun I had an enormous amount of new respect for you know Marcy Lucas and Richard Chu and

1001
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:35.200
Paul Hirsch you edited Star Wars especially that final battle in Star Wars where they didn't have

1002
01:40:35.200 --> 01:40:41.280
anything because they were cutting it on film but I went to see I went I had lunch with Paul Hirsch

1003
01:40:41.280 --> 01:40:46.080
who had done two mission impossible movies as well right so I had done two missions and I was

1004
01:40:46.080 --> 01:40:51.680
doing top gun and so I was able to talk to him about doing Star Wars I was like how did you do

1005
01:40:51.680 --> 01:40:58.400
that he said well George Lucas got a 16 millimeter camera and would film World War Two movies

1006
01:40:58.400 --> 01:41:09.520
off the TV and would blow up the 16 mil to 35 and snip out the bits where there was dog fighting

1007
01:41:09.600 --> 01:41:16.320
and we would use those shots in the trench run sequence of Star Wars to indicate where the X wings

1008
01:41:16.960 --> 01:41:22.880
and the tie fighters were and where the Y wings were and all that stuff and I was like what I

1009
01:41:22.880 --> 01:41:29.520
would give to see that version of the scene with those shots cut in because I've got such respect

1010
01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:35.280
for what they did and here I am with my model F 18s with it doing the same thing many years

1011
01:41:35.280 --> 01:41:42.080
that 40 50 years later you know and they said yeah I don't think anyone's got a copy of that

1012
01:41:42.080 --> 01:41:47.680
but anyway when we were at Skywalker Ranch doing one of our sound mixes on Top Gun Maverick

1013
01:41:48.640 --> 01:41:56.400
Ben Bert who was the sound designer on Star Wars he's still there working and I went up to him

1014
01:41:56.400 --> 01:42:03.120
at breakfast one day and bought him breakfast and chatted him up and was like Ben massive Star Wars fan

1015
01:42:03.920 --> 01:42:09.440
please can you tell me some stories or can I ask you some questions about and he gave me a copy

1016
01:42:09.440 --> 01:42:13.520
of his book called The Sound of Star Wars which is amazing when he talks about how he makes

1017
01:42:13.520 --> 01:42:19.120
every sound effect in that film but I got to meet and sit down with Ben Bert and after like

1018
01:42:19.920 --> 01:42:24.880
four or five days of me buying him breakfast and being like a huge fan genuinely because I

1019
01:42:24.880 --> 01:42:30.240
you know I had such admiration for what he did and he was the picture editor on the Star Wars

1020
01:42:30.240 --> 01:42:38.240
prequel as well as the sound designer and I said to him can I come up to your studio and see some

1021
01:42:38.240 --> 01:42:42.160
of the stuff he's like all right come up come up and he says here's a treat for you and he gives

1022
01:42:42.160 --> 01:42:49.760
me his original 1975 script of Star Wars with his handwritten notes in the margin and he's like this

1023
01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:56.240
is the scuba master I used to record Darth Vader's breathing and this is the and I was just you know

1024
01:42:57.200 --> 01:43:06.480
and and all kinds of props he's got like up in his studio and I said okay Ben there's a story

1025
01:43:06.480 --> 01:43:12.240
about the trench run in Star Wars where there's footage of these World War II dogfight movies

1026
01:43:12.240 --> 01:43:18.000
which they use to cut in and it doesn't exist anywhere and I would love to see that and he went

1027
01:43:19.040 --> 01:43:24.160
do you know what I did in lockdown he's like I have found the original print with that in and I

1028
01:43:24.160 --> 01:43:30.240
digitized it and I made a split screen and I have it on my laptop if you'd like to see it and I was

1029
01:43:30.240 --> 01:43:36.480
like hell yes what I like to see this and he knew because he'd seen bits of top gun on the sound

1030
01:43:36.480 --> 01:43:41.440
stage where we were where we were sound mixing and he knew what this would mean to me as a fan of

1031
01:43:41.440 --> 01:43:48.160
Star Wars and having been working on that exact sequence in Top Gun Maverick so he's like okay here

1032
01:43:48.160 --> 01:43:52.000
we go and he gets his MacBook out and he calls up the file and there's a perfect split screen of

1033
01:43:52.000 --> 01:44:00.560
Star Wars and then a work print with all this dogfighting cut in and I'm trembling with excitement

1034
01:44:00.560 --> 01:44:04.880
because this I've dreamed I've read about this since I was eight or nine years old and it's so

1035
01:44:04.880 --> 01:44:09.920
exciting and I met Paul Hirsch and I talked to him about it and Ferris Bueller is one of my favorite

1036
01:44:09.920 --> 01:44:16.000
movies and Paul Hirsch edited that and and you know a lot of the editorial discoveries are his

1037
01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:21.600
and the music choices and stuff were a lot was to do with him on that movie so massive respect

1038
01:44:21.600 --> 01:44:27.120
for Paul Hirsch and he didn't even have a copy of it so there I am and so I'm sat down in Ben

1039
01:44:27.120 --> 01:44:32.880
Bert's office at Skywalker Ranch and he opens his laptop and presses play and then I get to watch

1040
01:44:32.880 --> 01:44:37.440
a split screen which no one else will see because he's like that's never going on YouTube and he's

1041
01:44:37.440 --> 01:44:42.640
like you're done but I got to watch the whole of the like 12 minutes of the trench run sequence

1042
01:44:42.640 --> 01:44:48.880
and it's astonishing the shots are exactly the same as these dogfight movies it's like there's

1043
01:44:48.880 --> 01:44:54.240
an X-wing and they're doing exactly the same move so ILM was basically copying these shots using

1044
01:44:54.240 --> 01:45:00.400
the the motion control model photography in 1976 and 1977 when they were doing this oh the other

1045
01:45:00.400 --> 01:45:05.920
cool thing about that is I did get to work with John Dykstra on X-Men first class who designed the

1046
01:45:05.920 --> 01:45:10.800
motion control camera that filmed the the Star Wars models it was called the Dykstra Flex the

1047
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:17.040
system that they built and it basically ran off a pocket calculator as far as I could tell but he

1048
01:45:17.040 --> 01:45:23.040
was the visual effects supervisor on X-Men first class and the first day I met him a Matthew said

1049
01:45:23.040 --> 01:45:29.280
I'm thinking of hiring John Dykstra to do this I was like oh yes hire him and so we were working

1050
01:45:29.280 --> 01:45:35.120
so hard on the movie I never really got to ask him any Star Wars questions but he at the end when

1051
01:45:35.120 --> 01:45:40.080
we finished X-Men he was like let's go and have lunch and you can ask me any question you want about

1052
01:45:40.080 --> 01:45:44.960
ILM and Star Wars and if you haven't seen that show light and magic if you've seen that on Disney

1053
01:45:44.960 --> 01:45:50.880
Plus I've heard of it yes you must watch it it's so good it's about these Mavericks who created all

1054
01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:56.800
these visual effects starting with Star Wars and John Dykstra is interviewed in it but I I got to

1055
01:45:56.800 --> 01:46:01.920
spend like four hours chatting with John and asked him all my Star Wars questions and at the end he

1056
01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:07.840
gave me a slice of the original Death Star model that he had in a box he was like here's a gift for

1057
01:46:07.840 --> 01:46:13.760
you and so obviously as a Star Wars fan that's just a piece of you know proper movie history

1058
01:46:13.760 --> 01:46:19.120
that I've got sat in my study you know my cutting room wow um anyway those are my little Star Wars

1059
01:46:19.120 --> 01:46:25.440
stories yeah and I also when I was at Skywalker Ranch I managed to get a tour around the Lucas

1060
01:46:25.440 --> 01:46:32.640
film archives which is incredibly rare but I basically just sweet talk the people and they knew

1061
01:46:32.640 --> 01:46:38.000
what a fan I was and I got to have 15 minutes in the archives where there's that very famous photo

1062
01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:43.840
of George Lucas from 1983 when he's in the archives surrounded by all these Star Wars props

1063
01:46:43.840 --> 01:46:51.600
so I got to go in and see the arc of the covenant and the all the the big star destroyer models

1064
01:46:51.600 --> 01:46:57.280
and the destroyed Death Star and the the artisans and the three POs and Jabba the Heart and

1065
01:46:57.280 --> 01:47:02.720
the the Shankara stones from Temple of Doom in the Bullwhip and the Hat and all the map paintings

1066
01:47:02.720 --> 01:47:07.840
from Star Wars it was amazing like 15 minutes I'll never forget they take your phone away when

1067
01:47:07.840 --> 01:47:12.560
you go in and there was someone there making sure you're not like destroying something but yeah

1068
01:47:12.560 --> 01:47:18.720
that was that was an amazing privilege so such a treat anyway wow what hey I mean I've

1069
01:47:18.720 --> 01:47:22.800
witted on long enough have a time yeah no it's been fantastic to people out there in podcast land

1070
01:47:22.800 --> 01:47:26.960
I'm sorry that I've witted on there we go but these are some great stories to share they really

1071
01:47:26.960 --> 01:47:30.080
are yeah thank you so much for sharing them I mean that's such I think that's such a nice note

1072
01:47:30.080 --> 01:47:33.040
it sort of you know brings it full circle back to you know you started of Star Wars

1073
01:47:33.040 --> 01:47:37.040
yes that's true and then now here you are obviously editing these incredible films

1074
01:47:37.040 --> 01:47:41.360
living that dream of being of being a filmmaker and being an editor in yeah tying it all back

1075
01:47:41.360 --> 01:47:45.920
to Star Wars yeah absolutely for me anyway yeah that was it wonderful or thank you so much for

1076
01:47:45.920 --> 01:47:50.320
coming on after pitch ready this was such a pleasure just to sit back in here you regalus

1077
01:47:50.320 --> 01:47:54.640
with your stories and to hear about your process as well because you know we're I'm personally such

1078
01:47:54.640 --> 01:47:57.920
a fan and an admirer of yours and yeah what can I say thanks so much for coming on the

1079
01:47:58.000 --> 01:48:02.080
yeah you're welcome thanks for having me

1080
01:48:09.440 --> 01:48:14.480
hey everyone thanks so much for listening to my chat with Eddie Hamilton remember to like and

1081
01:48:14.480 --> 01:48:18.240
subscribe to the podcast see you there for me some episode and stay tuned for more exciting

1082
01:48:18.240 --> 01:48:23.040
interviews and guests coming soon on half the picture