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This could be the last time I speak about myself, my work, because there's a chance that I might not make it off the operating table this month.

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And a journalist who has very bad blood towards me has been trying to publish a story on me for more than two years now.

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And it will come out in the next month or two, and I didn't want that to be the last word on my life.

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What you want the last word of your life to be?

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I'm here to communicate about the possibility of a major forgotten episode at human story.

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I'm talking about a lost civilization.

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So most people think civilization started 6,000 years ago?

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Yes.

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But you believe there's strong evidence that there could have been a previous civilization.

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20,000 years ago, and I'm going to present the evidence for that here, Stephen.

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And it suggests a golden age, where there was no violence, no cruelty, where great healers and sages were at work.

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They're extremely sophisticated.

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However, if you follow the myths further as I've done, you find something odd happens.

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You find that they stepped away from the original purity, and you come culture that begins to impose its power on others around the world.

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And then sewn into those myths is scientific information which record a gigantic cataclysm, all but wiping out the human race.

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If what you're saying is true, what does that mean for our lives?

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I guess also our future.

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Well, there's always this feeling in the myths that we brought this upon ourselves.

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And when I look at our civilization today, I see a civilization that ticks all the mythological boxes for the next lost civilization,

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and that we are most likely to be the cause of that cataclysm ourselves.

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Unless we wake up.

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Graham Hancock, what will you care about on your last day?

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Most of all.

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Guys, I've got a favor to ask before this episode begins.

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The algorithm, if you follow a show, will deliver you the best episodes from that show very prominently in your feed.

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So when we have our best episodes on this show, the most shared episodes, the most rated episodes, I would love you to know.

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And the simple way for you to know that is to hit that follow button.

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But also, it's the simple, easy, free thing that you can do to help us make this show better.

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I would be hugely grateful if you could take a minute on the app you're listening to the song right now and hit that follow button.

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Thank you so, so, so much.

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Graham Hancock.

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I guess the first question I wanted to ask you is, what is it you've committed the last more than 30 years of your life to understanding?

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What is this as a puzzle?

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I'm puzzled by aspects of the human past.

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There could be, and I think there's a lot to suggest there was, a major forgotten episode in the human story.

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That's why I refer to us as a species with amnesia.

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When I use that phrase, I need to give credit to Emmanuel Velikowski, who wrote a book called Mankind in Amnesia.

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I think we are a species with amnesia.

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I think we have forgotten something very important in our own past.

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When I turn to the experts, I find much of what they say very interesting and very useful.

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But some of what they say, extremely unsatisfactory and not responding to the problems that I have in the past.

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And that's led me to take my own approach to the past, to look at that and to offer readers, because I'm mainly an author, occasionally make TV shows,

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to offer them an alternative point of view, which is rational and solidly based, but which is contrary to key aspects of the mainstream narrative.

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We only have decipherable written scripts from the last five and a half thousand years maximum.

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Before that, we don't have any writing that we can read.

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Go back 10, 12, 15, 20,000 years, all you can base it on from an archaeological point of view is what they can dig out of the ground.

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And I think what they're missing, the ancients did leave us memories of what they went through.

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We have myths and traditions and scriptures from all around the world, which record a gigantic cataclysm affecting the human race.

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And all but wiping out the human race, everybody knows the story of the flood of Noah.

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Of course, the flood of Noah is just one example of hundreds like that of stories from around the world.

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Archaeologists pour scorn on Plato's story of Atlantis.

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But Atlantis is another of those stories that remembers a global flood that wiped out a former era of existence, leaving only a few survivors.

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And the archaeological response to them is there was a local river flood.

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They exaggerated it. It was a big deal for them. So they said it happened to the whole world.

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And I'm sick of archaeologists saying that. This is the memory banks of our species.

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This is the record. They only record we have of a period before 6000 years ago.

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And we shouldn't despise it and scorn it as primitive superstition.

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We should say, what can we find in here that we can coordinate with scientific facts that we're aware of?

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Let's see if there's something to this rather than just dismissing it.

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Many of these myths contain imagery and a series of numbers.

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A very important academic study published in the 1960s, a book called Hamlet's Mill.

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By Georgia De Santillana, Professor of the History of Science at Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Hearth of Undeshed, Professor of History of Science.

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This is not me speaking. This is major, major historians of science in the 1960s.

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They found encoded in those myths numbers and imagery that could only relate to one thing.

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And that's an obscure astronomical phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes.

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I'm not going to go into the technical details, but to observe it and to record it and to predict it, to predict its effects in the future,

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involves very precise astronomical observations maintained over a very long period of time, hundreds and hundreds of years at least.

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So here we have myths of global cataclysm. There is just so much else.

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There are ancient maps that show the world as it looked during the ice age, again dismissed as just total coincidence and not significant by archaeology.

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I feel that archaeology has failed miserably in providing a nurturing, satisfying answer to the questions we all have.

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So when you say global cataclysm, what does that mean?

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Means that something hit the planet? We were wiped out?

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Yeah, there are a number of options. And again, I need to stress this because there's so much propaganda in this business.

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I'll be immediately accused of lunatic fringe.

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The solid science that's been done on this is twofold.

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One aspect of it, the one that I think I find most persuasive is called the Younger Dryass Impact Hypothesis.

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And this is a mainstream hypothesis, but it is severely criticized within academia.

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The hypothesis is that about 20,000 years ago, a very large comet came in from deep space and went into orbit around the Sun.

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This would be a comet of the diameter of 100 kilometers, maybe 200.

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Comes in, gets captured by the Sun's gravity, goes into an orbit. That orbit crosses the orbit of the Earth.

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While you're dealing with one large object, the chances of getting hit are extremely low.

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It would be very bad if you did, but very low trouble is nobody disputes this.

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Once comets are caught by the gravitational field of a very large planet or of a Sun, they start to break up into multiple parts.

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And this is what happened to the Younger Dryass comet.

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Instead of being a single bullet, it became a shotgun blast. It became thousands and thousands of objects.

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Of which we've cataloged quite a lot.

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Numbers of them, comet Enki is the best known bit of that former comet.

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Many of the academics look at this, think that comet Enki, which is about six kilometers in diameter,

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and which does cross the orbit of the Earth, they think that that was the source comet.

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But whereas the other team, I say, no, that's a bit of the source comet.

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There were many other bits as well. And 12,800 years ago, 12,860 approximately,

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the Earth went into a storm of these fragments.

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None of them big enough to compare with the object that wiped out the dinosaur 65 million years ago.

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But all over the world, the Earth is turning, this stuff comes in, they found it in the west coast of North America,

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they found it in Belgium, and they found it as far east as Syria.

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So it's like the Earth turns, and this stuff is just coming in.

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Most of it is blowing up in the air. It isn't even hitting the ground,

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but an air burst from an object that might be 100 meters in diameter is equivalent to a very substantial nuclear blast.

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So their argument is the Earth was hit by a comet storm, and this they then argue,

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and I think they're right, explains what happened then, because 12,800 years ago,

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we were still in the ice age, but the Earth was coming out of the ice age.

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In fact, for about a thousand, maybe 2,000 years before that,

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the Earth had been getting warmer, getting quite nice.

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And you would normally expect that to continue, but then suddenly 12,800 years ago, give it take 60 years,

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there's a huge interruption, there's a radical change.

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The Earth instead of warming, it suddenly goes back into a massive deep freeze,

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and this is the time when all the famous big animals of the ice age, the megafauna, are wiped out,

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the woolly mammoths, the mastodons, the giant sloth, these things like 14 feet tall,

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they're all wiped out in that window around about 12,800 years ago.

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And most important of all, there's a very mysterious sea level rise that occurs then.

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This you would not expect when the Earth is entering a cold phase.

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Normally when the Earth enters a cold phase, ice accumulates on the existing ice caps.

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It doesn't melt and go into the sea.

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So the next thing is how do we explain this sudden rise in sea levels at the beginning of younger dries?

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It shouldn't have happened.

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The comet theory explains it perfectly, the mass, the impact, the heat, the air bursts,

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that would have been enough to send the ice sheets into meltdown and to cause this pulse of melt water.

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Then the free sets in, you have about 1,200 years of freezing desperately cold conditions.

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And then again, 11,600 years ago, it suddenly warms up.

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I mean, these are radical climate changes.

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They're beyond anything that's happening now.

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And I think explanations are needed for them.

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And because 12,800 years ago may sound a long time ago,

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but it's really yesterday in the human story.

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So something very big happened to the Earth and happened to our ancestors 12,800 years ago.

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If it wasn't a comet, another theory that's been put forward is a radical change in solar activity.

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This might have been involved with it as well.

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I don't find that as persuasive as the younger dryers impact hypothesis.

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And maybe some other explanation will come up.

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But what nobody disputes is that the younger dryers was a catastrophe.

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It was global and it had huge effects.

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You chose intentionally to come and have this conversation today.

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Why today?

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Well, I've been quite unwell, really noticeably unwell since January, February this year,

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particularly very, very short of breath.

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It's because one of the failed vowels in my heart is causing blood to regurgitate inside the heart

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rather than pumping it through the body.

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And that means that oxygenated blood is not getting to my lungs.

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I probably would live another two or three years without the surgery, maybe even five.

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But the quality of life would be very low.

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I can't even walk up three stairs without being exhausted at the moment.

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So I've definitely decided to have the surgery.

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Why am I doing this interview now rather than postponing it until after the surgery and I've recovered?

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Well, there's a tiny chance, absolutely minuscule chance, that I might not make it off the operating table.

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This month.

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Yeah, this month.

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And if that were the case, this would be the last time I've spoken about myself, my work, my life.

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Changes I faced in an open forum like this.

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And I choose to do that.

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And I'm going to say specifically why without giving, without mentioning names.

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I choose to do that because a journalist who has very bad blood towards me has been trying to publish a story on me for more than two years now.

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And it will come out in the next month or two.

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And I didn't want that to be the last word on my life.

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That's why I'm here, Stephen.

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What do you want the last word of your life to be?

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I would hope that people will come to understand that I'm not the person that very small minority of archaeologists have mobilized social media to present me as.

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I'm not a grifter. I'm not a hoaxer. I'm not a con man.

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I'm deeply committed to this. I've devoted my life to it for more than 30 years.

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I'm passionate about it. It matters to me.

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And I think, again, I'll be laughed at for saying this, but I feel cold to do this.

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I feel it's my obligation and my responsibility to do this.

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How is that disputed?

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Because I guess I need to understand human history to understand why the fundamental belief that you have that there was a civilization that we aren't talking about.

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I'd like to be clear. It's not a belief.

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This is another mistake that my critics often make.

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They think that I'm dealing with some sort of belief system or some sort of cult here. No, I'm not.

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I'm just puzzled. I'm just puzzled by the past.

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And I'm puzzled by the memories that have been passed down to us.

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And I'm puzzled that those memories concur all around the world on a serious cataclysmic event.

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What is it that your people that aren't puzzled and are certain belief?

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Yeah, they think that glacial lakes in North America gradually grew in size and overspilt the ice dams that held them in place.

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And that the water from those lakes, some of it went into the Atlantic Ocean and cut the Gulf Stream.

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I don't dispute that. Glacial lakes were involved.

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But those lakes were filled up at a massive speed.

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Nobody disputes that the Angadrius was a cataclysmic event.

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It's just the degree of the cataclysm that's disputed and what caused it that's disputed.

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But everyone agrees that humans are 315,000 years old.

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At present. When I started on this quest back in the late 80s, early 90s,

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it was felt that anatomically modern human beings had not existed for more than 50,000 years.

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Very recent, really. But this turned out to be complete rubbish.

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Because anatomically modern humans are much older than 50,000 years ago.

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We have 196,000 year old anatomically modern human remains from Ethiopia.

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And then finally, 315,000 years ago, a recent find in Jabalir Hood in Morocco,

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again, anatomically modern humans.

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So we can say that if we define ourselves by our anatomy, brain size, capacity of the skull,

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if we define ourselves in those ways, we've been around for at least 315,000 years,

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and probably much longer. That's just an accident of discovery.

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And that's one of the things that puzzles me.

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If we're anatomically modern, if we've got all the modern kit, if we've got the same brains,

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we've got the same neurology, everything is there.

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Why do we wait more than 300,000 years to establish something recognizable as a human civilization?

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Why do we wait so long? We've got all the kit.

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There's evidence that our ancestors were aware of.

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The culture just chose not to use it much, much, much earlier than that.

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The complex of events that leads to a city-based civilization,

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which is the kind of civilization we have now all over the world,

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that you can only really trace that back to 6,000 years ago.

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Yes, you can say that before 6,000 years ago, there was build-up to what became the high civilizations.

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But my question is, why not much earlier? Why did we wait until that moment?

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And I don't find a satisfactory answer to that question, except perhaps we didn't wait.

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Perhaps we're missing part of our story.

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And when I say a lost civilization, I do not mean a civilization like ours.

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I do not mean an industrial civilization.

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I don't mean they had cell phones or flew to the moon or any of that bullshit.

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I think they were very different civilization from ours.

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But they had conquered a number of peaks.

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And one of those peaks was navigation and ocean seafaring,

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hence the survival of maps, which show the world as it looked during the ice age.

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And another was astronomy.

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And another really important breakthrough, evidence by the ancient maps,

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particularly a category of maps called the Porto Lanoes,

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is accurate relative longitudes.

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This is the Orontius Phineas map.

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It shows Antarctica right there.

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And this is interesting, because this map was drawn in 1531.

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The problem is that our civilization didn't discover Antarctica until 1820.

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So it's appearance on a map drawn in 1521,

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particularly when we know that the map was based on older source maps

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and the map maker tells us in his own legend that he has uncovered

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material previously hidden in darkness.

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When we find that, we have to begin to wonder what is going on here.

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Have somebody found Antarctica long before, long before we did?

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And mapped it with extremely accurate relative longitudes.

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And that's important because our civilization didn't crack the longitude problem

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until the mid-18th century.

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What that meant was that if you're on a vessel sailing west or east,

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you might be 300 miles closer to a coastline than you think you are.

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And suddenly you're on it in the night and you're dead.

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Once you've got longitude workout, you know exactly where you are.

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We didn't get that until 1750, 1760s.

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They're about with Harrison's chronometer.

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So finding good longitudes on very ancient maps is another puzzle

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that I don't think archaeologists sold.

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So you think they could have been a civilization 20,000 years ago

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which was before this young driest moment where...

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I mean, I've got this photo here which I'll throw up on the screen.

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I think you say is evidence that something took place.

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It is. That's the Younger Dryass boundary.

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And I'm with Alan West who's one of the scientists

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from the Comet Research Group who are working on the Younger Dryass hypothesis.

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And our hands are on that black stripe running through the middle of the draw.

242
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And that is evidence of wildfires burning.

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It's full of nano diamonds, tiny little diamonds, microscopic size,

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which are a classic product of comet impacts,

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microspherials, some platinum, some iridium,

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all signatures of a cometary impact.

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And there it is. It's about five inches thick.

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That layer is the Younger Dryass boundary layer.

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It dates to 12,800 years ago.

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So if anyone that can't see, it's just like a slice of earth

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and there's this black line going through the earth.

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We're in a draw here where a river has cut a channel

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and it's exposed the sides of the channel.

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And on the sides of the channel, we can see this black stripe running through

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and that is precisely the Younger Dryass boundary.

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And the current hypothesis from a lot of archaeologists

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is there wasn't a human civilization before this point 12,000 years ago.

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But you believe there's strong evidence that there could have been?

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Yes.

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So civilization, then, in your definition of the word,

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how do you define that?

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It group of people gathering and working together?

263
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Fundamentally, it involves the willing organization

264
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or the unwilling organization of labor.

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If you look at a site like Gobekli Teppi in Turkey,

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we have it on our timeline here somewhere.

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It's 11,600 years old.

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This is really an extraordinary site.

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It's a very sophisticated site.

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It's very large.

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It consists of large T-shaped megaliths that can weigh up to 20 tons.

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There are precise astronomical alignments in it.

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This was not done by two or three people working together.

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Well, that's the Gobekli Teppi today covered by a modern canopy

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to keep fair enough to keep the weather off it

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because it was previously deliberately buried by its builders.

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But of course, there's much more around.

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Hundreds and hundreds more pillars are still underground.

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We know they're there because of ground penetrating radar

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but they've not been excavated yet.

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So this was a major project.

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And interestingly, the people who built Gobekli Teppi

283
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at the time Gobekli Teppi began,

284
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there was no agriculture happening there.

285
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They were all hunter-gatherers.

286
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Nevertheless, they did something that archaeologists used to say

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hunter-gatherers couldn't do.

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They organized themselves.

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They made a huge project.

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They implemented it and they delivered it and Gobekli Teppi's not alone.

291
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It's one of dozens of sites like that, all over Anatolia in Turkey.

292
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This was a highly organized, sophisticated hunter-gatherer civilization

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that was involved in making this place.

294
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I'm a little bit confused.

295
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So if the ice age ended 11,700 years ago,

296
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and Gobekli Teppi is 11,600 years ago,

297
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that means there's 100 year gap between the end of the ice age

298
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and something is sophisticated as Gobekli Teppi.

299
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Not exactly.

300
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Because dates in this frame, they're not spot-on accurate dates.

301
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Some will say the ice age ended 11,600.

302
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Some will say it ended 11,700 years ago.

303
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But the fact is that in this window,

304
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the world was warming up again.

305
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It was getting better.

306
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And that's when this project was created.

307
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And the mystery is mystery for archaeologists anyway

308
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is that it was hunter-gatherers.

309
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And archaeologists are now having to come to terms with that.

310
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You see, the idea was you had to have an agricultural community first

311
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in order to create projects like this

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because that allows people to become specialists.

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If you generate a food surplus that you can rely on,

314
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then you can take people with certain skills

315
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and say, focus on that.

316
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Become an astronomer.

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Become an architect.

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Become an engineer.

319
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And we'll support you in doing that.

320
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That was the idea.

321
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And that was why it was felt that something like Gobekli Teppi

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couldn't be built until about 6,000 years ago

323
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when there was widespread agriculture.

324
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But that turned out not to be true.

325
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It was built by hunter-gatherers.

326
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But within a thousand years of it being built,

327
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agriculture becomes present in that whole area.

328
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Origins of agriculture are definitely earlier than we've been taught.

329
00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:02.000
So, funny because I don't know a lot about the ice age,

330
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but humans survived the ice age.

331
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.000
Oh, God, yes.

332
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We did.

333
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:11.000
It's just where do you want to be during an ice age?

334
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That's the question.

335
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What are the options?

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If you were a rational being,

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which most human beings are,

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you would immediately exclude Northern Europe.

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Absolutely no point in being in that frozen, miserable wilderness.

340
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You'd immediately exclude the northern part of North America too.

341
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No point in being there.

342
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It's just horrible at that time.

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Siberia.

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Pretty rough.

345
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No, you'd look for the tropics.

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You'd go down close to the equator.

347
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You'd go to the places that weren't affected by the ice age,

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that were actually the best real estate on Earth.

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That's where you'd go.

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That's why if we are looking for

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a missing episode in the human story,

352
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we're wasting our time looking for it in Northern Europe or North America.

353
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.000
We should be looking for it in Mexico.

354
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.000
We should be looking for it in India.

355
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.000
We should be looking for it in Indonesia.

356
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.000
We should be looking for it around Papua New Guinea.

357
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All of these areas that were really great places to live during the ice age.

358
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That's the kind of place that the sort of civilization I'm talking about could have thrived.

359
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.000
What is the difference?

360
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.000
Because on here it says the earliest known humans were 300,000 or years ago.

361
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:27.000
What is the difference between these humans who are in a thousand years ago

362
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:32.000
and the civilization you're describing 20,000 years ago that you believe existed?

363
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:38.000
Apart from what is perhaps wrongly described as a slight refinement in human features,

364
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:42.000
natural selection operating on what humans perceive as beauty, I don't know,

365
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but otherwise the same.

366
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The same.

367
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.000
And again, that's not disputed.

368
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.000
Nobody's saying that jibble or hood human beings were somehow different from us.

369
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They're anatomically modern humans.

370
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:59.000
But how did they live versus your definition of a civilization?

371
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.000
They lived a simple hunt together a life.

372
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:02.000
Okay, in small groups.

373
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:11.000
Yeah, but somehow around 11,600 years ago people started accumulating monuments

374
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that can only be made with large groups and organized labor.

375
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:16.000
You have to have a system.

376
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.000
You have to have a system.

377
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:18.000
You have to have a play.

378
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You can't build something like Gobekli Teppi without planning it out in advance.

379
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You've got to draw it out somehow.

380
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There has to be a plan.

381
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It's not something you just wing.

382
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So there's a missing background to all of that, which bothers me.

383
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:34.000
And again, so most people think civilization started what, 6,000 years ago?

384
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:39.000
Yes, that would be when civilizations become archaeologically visible.

385
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:48.000
So you have ancient Sumer, Mesopotamia, which roughly 3,500.

386
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:51.000
I'm going to use BC because everybody's familiar with that.

387
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There are roughly 3,500 BC, which is 5,500 years ago, approximately.

388
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We start seeing cities being built.

389
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.000
We start seeing the beginnings of writing, taking place around about the same time.

390
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.000
The same thing is happening in Egypt.

391
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.000
Maybe a couple of hundred years later, but the new work that's being done in Egypt

392
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:14.000
is pushing Egypt much closer to Sumer, narrowing that window.

393
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Effectively, you can say that these two civilizations become archaeologically visible at the same time.

394
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.000
And they're not alone.

395
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:27.000
Because on the other side of the world, in Peru, there's a civilization now recognized

396
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:33.000
called the Karal Supay civilization, which built pyramids, which also goes back 5,500 years.

397
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:39.000
And this is one of the mysteries I'm looking at now, is why we have these

398
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:46.000
apparently coincidental emergence of high civilizations in the same window all around the world.

399
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:50.000
In this valley civilization, roughly the same, 5,000 years old.

400
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.000
Yeah, we're looking at Karal here, I think, yeah.

401
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:00.000
The feature is these circular plazas in front of them and then the pyramid with her.

402
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:05.000
And these were not and not expected in Peru.

403
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:10.000
When archaeologists think of Peru, they tend to think of Machu Picchu, the Inca civilization.

404
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.000
That's what gets all the coverage.

405
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:14.000
And that's 600 years ago.

406
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.000
That's 600 years ago.

407
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:16.000
That's yesterday.

408
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:28.000
Whereas these Karal Supay pyramids, Karal, Aspera, Banduria, Pinico, these ones are much older.

409
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.000
Thousands of years older, they're extremely sophisticated.

410
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.000
They built with an earthquake proof technology.

411
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:43.000
Instead of using blocks, they put small stones in textile bags and those allow a certain amount of shifting

412
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so the thing doesn't collapse in an earthquake.

413
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.000
And this is 5,500 years old getting on.

414
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:53.000
So again, not an agricultural civilization at that time.

415
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.000
They're a hunter-gatherer civilization.

416
00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:00.000
So archaeologists are having to confront a reversal of their model at the moment.

417
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.000
And I think there's room in that reversal of the model for a forgotten episode in the human story.

418
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:08.000
Tell me about this forgotten episode in the human story.

419
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:13.000
Yeah, it's remembered all around the world as a golden age.

420
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:21.000
Where there was no violence, no cruelty, where great healers and sages were at work,

421
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:28.000
where powers that are scorned in our society today, such as telepathy and telekinesis,

422
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:33.000
which are regarded as completely non-existent by our scientists,

423
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:38.000
were regarded as a matter of fact of life in the ancient world.

424
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:46.000
That's a civilization that emerged out of shamanism and made something good.

425
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:52.000
But then, if you follow the myths further as I've done, you find something odd happens.

426
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:58.000
You find that they've stepped away from the original purity,

427
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:06.000
that they've become a culture that begins to impose its power on others around the world.

428
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.000
And that's always given as the reason for the cataclysm in the myths,

429
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.000
that we angered the gods, it might have been with our noise, it might have been with our irreverence.

430
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.000
We angered the gods and they sent a flood.

431
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:24.000
They weren't happy with their creation. They wanted to start again, wipe the slate clean.

432
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:28.000
And so there's always this feeling in the myths, and I can't explain it.

433
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:34.000
I don't know what it comes from, but it's always there, is that in some way,

434
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:38.000
we ourselves brought this upon ourselves.

435
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:41.000
Is this those people not understanding the forces of Mother Nature

436
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.000
and trying to justify it as...

437
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:48.000
Perhaps a deeper understanding of the forces of Mother Nature.

438
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:53.000
Perhaps the way that human beings are operating in the world today

439
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:57.000
should be included amongst the forces of nature.

440
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:02.000
We are a geological force. And worse than that, we're a psychic force,

441
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:07.000
which is full of anger and hatred and suspicion and mutual destruction.

442
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.000
That's not going to be good for nature.

443
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.000
That's going to be disturbing. We're an integrated system in my view.

444
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.000
We're not separate, human beings are part of all of this,

445
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:22.000
and what we do affects all of that, and that's what the ancient myths seem to testify to.

446
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:28.000
So, if I may finish on that, when I look at our civilization today,

447
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:31.000
I don't want to go off on a rant, but when I look at our civilization today,

448
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:36.000
I see a civilization that ticks all the mythological boxes, every single one,

449
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:39.000
for the next lost civilization.

450
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:44.000
And I envisage a situation 10 or 15,000 years from now,

451
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:52.000
when we will be a myth, a fantasy that our ancestors actually could speak to one another

452
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:57.000
on the opposite sides of the planet, that our ancestors, they could fly to the moon.

453
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.000
They could go to the depths of the ocean.

454
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:04.000
The archaeologists of that time will say, complete fantasy, just made up, never happened,

455
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:07.000
we're that lost civilization.

456
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:12.000
And we don't need a comet, we don't need solar activity,

457
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:18.000
because if we're so psychically messed up as a species, we'll probably end up doing it to ourselves.

458
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:25.000
That's what nuclear weapons are about, mass species, suicide,

459
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:31.000
and the mental processes that drive that, very dangerous,

460
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:35.000
very effective of the world we live in.

461
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:38.000
Hatred is a psychic force,

462
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.000
and the way it's being generated around the world at the moment,

463
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:47.000
and mobilized and focused, is going to be better for all of us.

464
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.000
Especially when we have such powers to self-destruct.

465
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:51.000
Ah, it's terrible.

466
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:56.000
This is what drives me nuts, is looking at the low consciousness level

467
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.000
of the so-called leaders on this planet.

468
00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:02.000
When I look around the whole bunch of them,

469
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:06.000
I just see very low consciousness individuals

470
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.000
who define everything in material terms,

471
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:15.000
who are focused on, this also gets me into trouble,

472
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:21.000
but I think nationalism is something that humanity needs to grow out of.

473
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:25.000
We need to grow out of nationalism, it's just an extension of tribalism.

474
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.000
We need to grow out of it soon, and let me be clear,

475
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:32.000
I am not talking about world government.

476
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.000
I don't want anything like, I don't want any government.

477
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.000
I'm an anarchist basically, that's what anarchy means.

478
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.000
It means without government.

479
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:41.000
I don't want any government at all.

480
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:45.000
But we have to get past this notion that by accident,

481
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:48.000
I was born with this particular skin, you know,

482
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:51.000
the notion is that these accidents of birth define us,

483
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:56.000
that we must somehow massively respect and love people who look like us

484
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:00.000
and kind of hate and fear people who don't look like us.

485
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.000
We have to get past that.

486
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:04.000
We have to get past that as a species, it's really important.

487
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.000
All human beings, everywhere, all the same, fundamentally.

488
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.000
Of course, we're vastly diverse, we have incredible different gifts.

489
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:17.000
I value and appreciate the differences in different cultures all around the world.

490
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:21.000
This is wonderful, but it doesn't have to come with and we are better than you.

491
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:25.000
And we're going to kill you because you don't share our ideas.

492
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:26.000
This is insane.

493
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:27.000
It's crazy.

494
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.000
We're not a mature species, we're a childish species.

495
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:38.000
And leading our species are leaders who have the mentality of deranged teenagers.

496
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.000
We elected them.

497
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.000
Yeah, we did.

498
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:46.000
Very unfortunately, which shows how easy it is to manipulate the narrative.

499
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.000
The narrative in the world today.

500
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:54.000
Today who wins in elections isn't the best person, isn't the good person, isn't the person who's going to do good.

501
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.000
It's the best communicator who wins.

502
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.000
So this ancient civilization that we could have theoretically forgotten,

503
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:07.000
you were somewhat implying that maybe they were right, that their own actions caused the great flood,

504
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.000
as they say, they think they talk about it mythology.

505
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.000
I've floated that notion now.

506
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.000
They might have been, but it's enough to say that that's what they believed.

507
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.000
Because that's what all the myths say.

508
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:24.000
The Noah's story is prefigured in ancient Sumer with an almost identical flood myth.

509
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.000
The gods are angry.

510
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.000
A great flood is going to be sent.

511
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.000
The intention is to wipe out humanity.

512
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.000
But this god is called Enki.

513
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.000
Says to Atrahasus, I'm going to save you.

514
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.000
Build a boat, build it now.

515
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.000
A big one.

516
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.000
Put into it the seeds of all things that you will need.

517
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:46.000
Bring each animal of every kind into your boat.

518
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:50.000
This is a kind of survival arc, which is exactly the same as Noah.

519
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.000
Noah's arc is just copied on that.

520
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:53.000
It's just borrowed from that.

521
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.000
And to people that say, well, these are just stories.

522
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:58.000
These are fictions that someone wrote and then they passed them down.

523
00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:59.000
And there's no truth in these things.

524
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.000
They're welcome to say that.

525
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.000
I just happen to think they're not.

526
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:06.000
And my job has been to make that case.

527
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.000
I do not claim that I have proved there was a lost civilization.

528
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:13.000
Any archaeologist who says Hancock claims he's proved that is lying.

529
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:14.000
I don't claim that.

530
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.000
I claim I'm puzzled and mystified.

531
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.000
And I'm going to, I'm going to complete that journey as long as I can.

532
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.000
I'm going to carry on investigating and looking into all aspects of this.

533
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.000
Because that's what I'm here to do.

534
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.000
And that lost civilization.

535
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.000
You said they were seabaring potentially.

536
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.000
Seafaring, yeah.

537
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:32.000
Which means they had boats.

538
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:33.000
Yeah.

539
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:34.000
Yeah.

540
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:40.000
We know, for example, that anatomically modern human beings reached Australia 60,000 years ago.

541
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.000
That does involve significant sea journeys.

542
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:47.000
They reached Cyprus in the Mediterranean 14,000 years ago.

543
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:51.000
Again, they involve sea journeys, not engine boats, not metal boats.

544
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.000
You can do it on quite simple craft.

545
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:54.000
Look at the Polynesians.

546
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.000
Look at the vast distances that they explored on outrageous canoes.

547
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:04.000
So yeah, boats, but not our kind of boats.

548
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:10.000
I just don't understand how if they're traveling the season boats, how they aren't classified as a civilization.

549
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:19.000
Well, because according to the mainstream model, which I am trying to provide an alternative to, they never existed.

550
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.000
There was no such people.

551
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.000
They never did these things.

552
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.000
The maps are just coincidences irrelevant.

553
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:30.000
Just odd, they put Antarctica, they put a land mass in Antarctica, because they felt it would balance the world.

554
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.000
That's the theory that's given.

555
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.000
And it's just, to me, it's not satisfactory.

556
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.000
It just doesn't add up.

557
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:39.000
These things need to be explained.

558
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.000
And it's why in every society which wishes to make progress.

559
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:53.000
Mavericks, people who go against the grain, no matter how much shit they have to take, are needed.

560
00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:02.000
They're needed in our society to provide a balance to this overwhelming mass that science now occupies.

561
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:07.000
Science has now come to occupy the space that religion occupied in many people's minds.

562
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.000
And again, I need to emphasize, I'm not against science.

563
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.000
Science is about to save my life.

564
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.000
I have major heart surgery coming up in two weeks' time.

565
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:20.000
I'm not against it at all, but I think it should be one weapon in our armory, not the only weapon.

566
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:26.000
One of the things I was super curious about, because I was actually there last week, is this place.

567
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:27.000
Geyser.

568
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:28.000
Pyramids of Geyser.

569
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.000
The great pyramid of Geyser.

570
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.000
Here we look at it.

571
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:39.000
Attributed to the pharaoh Kufu, who was a pharaoh of the fourth dynasty.

572
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:40.000
What is the mystery here?

573
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:45.000
So, again, pyramids are this big stack of concrete blocks in Egypt.

574
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.000
Why is it so mysterious?

575
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.000
Well, first of all, they're not concrete.

576
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:53.000
They're human limestone and granite.

577
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:57.000
First of all, it's mysterious for the sheer size of it.

578
00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:03.000
Look, you've got roughly 750 feet along each side.

579
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:09.000
And they vary in length by only fractions of an inch.

580
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.000
They've got it just about spot-on exact on the side length.

581
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:19.000
Because if you get it wrong, you're going to end up with a corkscrew rather than a pyramid.

582
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:23.000
If you get it wrong at the bottom, those arrows are going to magnify and they're going to get worse and worse.

583
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.000
And it's not going to be a pyramid at the end of the day.

584
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:33.000
Secondly, weight calculated at about 6 million tons.

585
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:36.000
More than 2 million individual blocks of stone.

586
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.000
I've climbed the pyramid five times.

587
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:44.000
Once I climbed it when there was an event taking place on the Giza Plateau, picnics basically.

588
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:48.000
And a lot of kareens just decided to climb the pyramid.

589
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.000
As I say, I've climbed it four other times without other people there.

590
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.000
But this time, there were hundreds of people on the pyramid.

591
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:58.000
That's when I realized how difficult this thing is to make,

592
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.000
because the biggest danger was the other people.

593
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.000
Once you're up two or three courses, you fall your dead.

594
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.000
It's a 52 degree slope. There's no way you're going to stop.

595
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.000
You're going to come down and still every year people die on the Great Pyramid.

596
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:15.000
That's why they've made it illegal to climb it now.

597
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.000
So there's that.

598
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.000
Then there's the almost perfect alignment of the Great Pyramid to true North.

599
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.000
Not to compass North, which is about 10 or 11 degrees off true North,

600
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:27.000
but to astronomical North, real North.

601
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:31.000
The Great Pyramid is aligned within 360th of a single degree.

602
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:34.000
I put it that way because degrees have divided into 60 minutes.

603
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:35.000
So three minutes of arc.

604
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:38.000
The Great Pyramid is aligned to that level of precision.

605
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.000
360th of a single degree to true North.

606
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:46.000
And they've done that on a six million ton monument, which is 481 feet high.

607
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:50.000
If you take a count of its original height, which has a 52 degree slope,

608
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:53.000
which is filled with internal corridors and spaces,

609
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:57.000
gram gallery, ascending, the descending corridors,

610
00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:01.000
all of this is extremely difficult to do.

611
00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:04.000
It is not impossible to do because we see it there.

612
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:06.000
Could our civilization do it?

613
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.000
Yeah, I think we could.

614
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.000
But would we do it?

615
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:11.000
No, I don't think we would.

616
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:13.000
The motive wouldn't be there.

617
00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:14.000
People say, what the why?

618
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.000
I mean, why do you want to align it perfectly to true North?

619
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:20.000
It's enough to ask me to build a six million ton monument,

620
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.000
but you want it aligned to true North as well?

621
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:23.000
Come on.

622
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:25.000
I mean, that's a really difficult specification.

623
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:28.000
We find that hard.

624
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:34.000
A kind of artistry was put to work on the great pyramid as well as skill.

625
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:37.000
Let's get rid of any notion that slaves were involved.

626
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:38.000
They were not.

627
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.000
There wasn't slavery in the old kingdom anyway, but this is a work of love

628
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.000
from the first to the last stone.

629
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:47.000
It's a work done with great skill and care.

630
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:52.000
It's a beautiful and extraordinary thing, both inside and out.

631
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.000
It sits almost exactly on latitude 30,

632
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000
which is one third of the way between the North Pole and the equator.

633
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.000
And it incorporates the dimensions of the Earth

634
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:09.000
on a scale of one to 43,200 in its own dimensions.

635
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:11.000
So if you take the height of the great pyramid

636
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:16.000
and multiply it by 43,200, I'll explain why that number matters.

637
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.000
Multiply it by that number, you get the polar radius of the Earth.

638
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.000
Measure the base perimeter of the great pyramid,

639
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.000
multiply it by the same factor, 43,200,

640
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.000
and you get the equatorial circumference of the Earth.

641
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:31.000
I'll just know this.

642
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:35.000
They say it's a coincidence, total coincidence, just by chance.

643
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.000
However, I could agree with them, actually,

644
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:42.000
if the scale was not one to 43,200.

645
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:46.000
But the fact that it's one to 43,200 changes everything

646
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:48.000
because that belongs to a sequence of numbers

647
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:52.000
that is found in ancient mythology all around the world.

648
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:56.000
And those numbers are all multiples of the number 72.

649
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:59.000
And I mentioned at the beginning of our discussion,

650
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:02.000
the book by the Great Historian of Science,

651
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:06.000
Georgia, De Santediana, Professor of the History of Science at MIT.

652
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.000
He was the first to identify that these numbers

653
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:12.000
and the imagery that go with them,

654
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.000
derive from a phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes.

655
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.000
I better explain that a little bit.

656
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:19.000
The precession of the equinoxes.

657
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.000
Everybody's heard the song,

658
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.000
we live in the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

659
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.000
I'm sure you've heard that.

660
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.000
No comment.

661
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.000
We live in the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

662
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:33.000
That's astrology.

663
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:36.000
At the moment, and for the last 2000 years,

664
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.000
on the spring equinox, the sun has risen against the background

665
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:43.000
of the constellation of Pisces.

666
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:45.000
That's the Age of Pisces.

667
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.000
We live in the Age of Pisces.

668
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:52.000
It's not an accident that the early Christians used the fish as their symbol.

669
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.000
The next constellation on the zodiac,

670
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:58.000
when you go backwards around it, is Aquarius.

671
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:02.000
And the precession is actually caused by a wobble on the axis of the Earth.

672
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.000
I'm going to pretend that this is the Earth.

673
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:05.000
Okay.

674
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.000
And instead of just doing this,

675
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.000
while it's doing that,

676
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:10.000
it's also doing that.

677
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:11.000
It's wobbling.

678
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:15.000
And that affects the rising time and season at which particular stars rise.

679
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000
It affects two things noticeably.

680
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.000
One thing it affects is the pole star.

681
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.000
At the moment, the pole star is Polaris.

682
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.000
The pole star, this is a astronomical north.

683
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:30.000
It's the star towards which the extended north pole of the Earth points most directly.

684
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:31.000
Okay.

685
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.000
At present, it's Polaris.

686
00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:35.000
It hasn't always been Polaris 4,000 years ago.

687
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:37.000
It was Thuban in the constellation of Draco.

688
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:39.000
That's because the Earth's axis is doing this.

689
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.000
At the horizon, it does the same thing with the zodiacal constellations.

690
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.000
We shift gradually through each constellation,

691
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:48.000
last about 2,000 years in each constellation.

692
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.000
The great year where we come back to square one is just under 26,000 years.

693
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:58.000
25,920 years is the convention that's applied in ancient mythology.

694
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:05.000
So the fact that one of those numbers is the scale used to encode the dimensions of the Earth in the Great Pyramid.

695
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.000
It cannot be accidental in my view.

696
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:08.000
It's a deliberate choice.

697
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:12.000
If it was 1 to 57,000, I wouldn't pay attention to it.

698
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.000
If it was 1 to 21,000, I wouldn't pay attention to it.

699
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:20.000
But 1 to 43,200, that's the number of syllables in the Rigveda, for example.

700
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:23.000
You find this all over the world everywhere.

701
00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.000
So what does that imply or suggest?

702
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:31.000
What it suggests is that incorporated into the building of the Great Pyramid was knowledge

703
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:34.000
that was not supposed to have existed four and a half thousand years ago.

704
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.000
In fact, knowledge that was not supposed to have existed until 2000 years ago.

705
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:44.000
Hipparches of Alexandria is the Greek who was supposed to have discovered procession.

706
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:52.000
But the incorporation of procession in the structure of the Great Pyramid says to me that that knowledge is much older.

707
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.000
It was already old then.

708
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.000
I really want to make sure I'm clear on this procession thing because I'm not super clear.

709
00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:59.000
What does it mean procession?

710
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:04.000
It means that there's a certain star pattern that we see once every 20,000 years?

711
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.000
It processes, it goes backwards.

712
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.000
The direction through the zodiac is forwards in the normal year.

713
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:18.000
But in the long term year because of the wobble, the sunrise against the background of the spring equinox.

714
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.000
The sun rises perfectly due east.

715
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.000
It always does.

716
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:24.000
It also rises perfectly due east on the autumn equinox.

717
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:30.000
On the summer solstice, the sun rises in the northern hemisphere, north of east and south of east on the winter solstice.

718
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.000
The key moment for the ancients was the equinox.

719
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:38.000
It was considered to define the character of the year.

720
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:43.000
And what defined it was the constellation that housed the sun, that was the house of the sun.

721
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.000
Okay, so the star pattern?

722
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:48.000
Yeah, a zodiacal constellation.

723
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:54.000
These constellations of the zodiac lie along what is called the ecliptic, the path of the sun.

724
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.000
Okay.

725
00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:01.000
The earth, the moon, we're all on the ecliptic within a few degrees above or below it.

726
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.000
And therefore these are constellations that we can see the sun against the background of.

727
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.000
Constellation like Orion, you'll never see the sun against the background of it.

728
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:17.000
You're only going to see it against the background of the zodiacal constellations that lie on the so-called path of the sun.

729
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:20.000
And those are the 12 familiar constellations of the zodiac.

730
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.000
And as I say, we're living in the age of Pisces right now.

731
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:32.000
And according to ancient astrology, we're going to be making the transition into Aquarius within about the next 150 years.

732
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:35.000
The sun will have left Pisces and will be rising in Aquarius.

733
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:37.000
So actually the song is true.

734
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:39.000
We do live in the dawning of the age of Aquarius.

735
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:41.000
The only question is whether that means anything or not.

736
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:43.000
The ancients thought it did.

737
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:45.000
We think it doesn't.

738
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:46.000
I'm not sure who's right.

739
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:49.000
So I'm going to repeat this back to you to check if I've got it correctly.

740
00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:51.000
What I suspect I might not have.

741
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:56.000
Within the design of the pyramids, there was a number which you said was 43,000.

742
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:57.000
It's a scale.

743
00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:58.000
It's a scale.

744
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:03.000
It's a scale that's used for the height and the base perimeter of the great pyramid.

745
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:08.000
Base perimeter measure, four sides, add it together, height, the actual height of the great pyramid.

746
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:10.000
It's true original height.

747
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.000
It lost about 30 feet in an earthquake in 1,301.

748
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:19.000
But you can calculate the true original height from the angle of the sides.

749
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:29.000
And when you take that height and multiply it by 43,200, you get the polar radius of the earth.

750
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:30.000
You get the radius of the earth.

751
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.000
That's from the center of the earth to the edge of the earth.

752
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:37.000
It's not the diameter of the earth, the diameter is twice the radius.

753
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:39.000
It's the polar radius.

754
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.000
A key dimension of the earth.

755
00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:50.000
Measure the sides and you get, on the same scale, 143,200, you get the equatorial circumference of the earth.

756
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:55.000
What the earth measures at its equator, its largest measure.

757
00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:00.000
And that is either a coincidence or it's deliberate.

758
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:07.000
And because of the number chosen and because that number is all over ancient mythology, I think it's deliberate.

759
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.000
Is it, that means that they must have known the circumference of the earth?

760
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:11.000
Yeah.

761
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:16.000
It means that they knew the circumference of the earth and it means they chose a place to put the great pyramid,

762
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:18.000
which also was relevant.

763
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:23.000
This isn't latitude 23 or latitude 37.

764
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.000
This is just a fraction of latitude 30 degrees north.

765
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:30.000
So therefore one third of the way between the equator and the north pole.

766
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.000
It's a, it's a, it's a significant relative.

767
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.000
What it's telling us is this monument speaks to the earth.

768
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:40.000
This monument is locked into the true north of this planet.

769
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.000
This monument gives you the dimensions of this planet.

770
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:46.000
This monument is speaking to this planet.

771
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:50.000
How could they possibly know the circumference of the earth 4,500 years ago?

772
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.000
Because there are lost civilization.

773
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:55.000
Because the, the knowledge comes down from a former time.

774
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.000
I don't think the Egyptians knew it.

775
00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:58.000
I think it came down.

776
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:05.000
I think it was inherited knowledge from what I'm here to advocate for and to speak for.

777
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.000
The possibility of a major forgotten episode in the human story.

778
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:11.000
Which could be 20,000 years ago.

779
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:12.000
Yes.

780
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.000
And they've passed it down in, in myths and stories.

781
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:16.000
Yes.

782
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:19.000
Pass it down, but not only in myths and stories.

783
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.000
This is something else that I will, I'll just hint at here,

784
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:26.000
that I intend to get into in the new book.

785
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:31.000
Is that there appear to have been organizations in each of these civilizations,

786
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:36.000
in Egypt, they were called the followers of Horus.

787
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.000
In Sumer, they were called the Apcaloo.

788
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.000
They served as advisors to kings.

789
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.000
They were called sages.

790
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:45.000
There's a reference to them.

791
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.000
Many cultures refer to them as the seven sages.

792
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:52.000
They provided advice to kings in the historical period.

793
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:58.000
And I'm wondering whether we're looking at some kind of long lived organization here.

794
00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.000
Which is carrying down information.

795
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:05.000
Looking for the right time to switch the engine of civilization back on again.

796
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.000
I know it sounds extreme, but that's what I do.

797
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:12.000
I explore, I explore extreme ideas and see whether,

798
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.000
and see whether they fit or not.

799
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.000
And I'm beginning to find this idea does fit.

800
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:21.000
It fits with the whole range of information, which will be in the next book.

801
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:23.000
A sage that reports the king.

802
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:26.000
And it totally reports to the king that advises the king.

803
00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.000
On what?

804
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:28.000
On everything.

805
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:29.000
On what to do.

806
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:30.000
Oh, okay.

807
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:31.000
Yeah.

808
00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:34.000
The Apcaloo, in the ancient traditions of Sumer,

809
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:37.000
they existed in the pre-deluvian world.

810
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.000
They were there in the world before the flood.

811
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.000
And they taught mankind knowledge then.

812
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:48.000
But the flood came, the cataclysm came, they were wiped out.

813
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.000
But some of the Apcaloo survived.

814
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:56.000
And they appear after the flood as advisors to the earliest historical kings of Sumer.

815
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:03.000
And I'm just wondering whether, you know, there are religions in the world

816
00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:07.000
which have maintained traditions and maintained offices, priesthoods,

817
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.000
for example, for thousands of years.

818
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.000
I don't see why the same shouldn't be true here,

819
00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:15.000
why there shouldn't have been some driving motive at the end of the ice age

820
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.000
to preserve in a way what they knew and to find mechanisms to pass it down.

821
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:24.000
One mechanism is to embed it in wonderful stories that will go on being told.

822
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.000
And another mechanism is to set up some kind of secret society,

823
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:32.000
which is operating behind the scenes to guide and steer society.

824
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:34.000
I'm not going to present the evidence for that here.

825
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.000
But it's an avenue I'm pursuing.

826
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:40.000
If I don't find it a satisfactory avenue, I'll abandon it.

827
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.000
But at the moment it's looking very interesting.

828
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.000
Then where did all this information go?

829
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.000
You know, because if the people who got the pyramids of Giza had this information,

830
00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:51.000
where did the sages go and with their information?

831
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.000
Yeah, it's very odd actually.

832
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.000
What happens after Giza is fascinating?

833
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:02.000
Because once you leave the fourth dynasty period,

834
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:07.000
you get into the fifth and sixth dynasties, pyramid building collapses.

835
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:11.000
The stuff they're making in the fifth dynasty, like the pyramid of UNAS,

836
00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:15.000
fifth dynasty pyramid in Sakara.

837
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:18.000
Inside, it's stunningly beautiful.

838
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:21.000
Beautiful tomb chamber, stars on the ceiling,

839
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:25.000
incredible hieroglyphs on the side is magical.

840
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:28.000
But outside, it's just a part of dust.

841
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:29.000
It's a mess.

842
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.000
You can hardly recognize it as a pyramid.

843
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.000
And it's true of all those.

844
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.000
This is odd in itself.

845
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:40.000
Normally, when human cultures create something,

846
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:41.000
they continue to work on it.

847
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:44.000
And it tends to get better and better, not worse and worse.

848
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.000
So it's odd what happens to the pyramids that they get worse and worse in Egypt.

849
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:51.000
It's like, job done, done that, move on.

850
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:52.000
And that's there.

851
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:55.000
And that's going to speak to human beings,

852
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.000
not just for a generation, not just for a hundred years.

853
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:01.000
It's going to be there speaking to us for thousands of years.

854
00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:03.000
It's going to be sitting there on the Giza plateau,

855
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:05.000
like an enormous question mark,

856
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.000
calling towards those who don't see it just as a heap of stones,

857
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:13.000
but actually see it as something wonderful and magnificent and mysterious,

858
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:16.000
calling them towards it and saying, learn about me.

859
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:18.000
Figure me out.

860
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:20.000
And in the process of learning about me,

861
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:21.000
you're going to learn so much else.

862
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.000
Well, in learning about the great pyramid,

863
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:26.000
I find that it is encoded with astronomical information

864
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:28.000
that should not be there

865
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:32.000
if the current model of the history of science is correct.

866
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:35.000
I think the current model of the history of science is wrong.

867
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:37.000
I think this information was known much earlier

868
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:39.000
and it's encoded in the great pyramid.

869
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:40.000
Once I know that,

870
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:41.000
then I have to start thinking,

871
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:42.000
what else does that mean?

872
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:45.000
And what else it means to me is a big,

873
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:48.000
forgotten episode in our story.

874
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:49.000
Big and why?

875
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:53.000
Because they had intelligence that they're not credited with having at that time.

876
00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:54.000
Yes.

877
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:55.000
Because it's there.

878
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.000
Because they should not be a monument of this scale,

879
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:02.000
which incorporates into it information

880
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:04.000
that was not supposed to be available to human beings

881
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.000
for another two and a half thousand years.

882
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.000
So they must have got it from somewhere?

883
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.000
Yes. They must have got it from somewhere.

884
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.000
And the fact that it's there is just a fact.

885
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.000
All that's left for us to say is,

886
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:19.000
either it's a coincidence,

887
00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:20.000
a complete coincidence,

888
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.000
or it's the result of a deliberate decision.

889
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:27.000
And if it's the result of a deliberate decision,

890
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.000
that weighs much more towards a deliberate decision

891
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:31.000
because of the scale chosen.

892
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:34.000
Because the scale is part of a system

893
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:36.000
that is found all over the ancient world.

894
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:37.000
It's not a random number.

895
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:39.000
It's a very specific number.

896
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.000
And it's a number that is derived

897
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.000
from a motion of the Earth itself,

898
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.000
from the precession of the Earth's axis.

899
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:47.000
It is derived from that.

900
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:51.000
So I'm situated at a significant latitude.

901
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.000
I'm oriented to true North.

902
00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:56.000
And I incorporate the measurements of your planet

903
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:59.000
on a scale derived from your planet itself.

904
00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:01.000
That's what the great pyramid is saying to us.

905
00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:03.000
And it's saying, figure that out.

906
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:05.000
Do you think there's something underneath it?

907
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:07.000
Oh, there's definitely something underneath it.

908
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:10.000
Because we think of it as this sort of like building

909
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:11.000
with tunnels inside it.

910
00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:13.000
Yeah, when you go into the great pyramid now,

911
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:17.000
you go in through what is called the robber's tunnel

912
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:19.000
or Mamoon's hole,

913
00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.000
the Khalifa Mamoon had a notion

914
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:24.000
that there would be an entrance

915
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.000
to the great pyramid in its northern face.

916
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:28.000
Other pyramids had been found with entrances

917
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:29.000
in their northern face.

918
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:30.000
But at that time,

919
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.000
the great pyramid was completely covered

920
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:35.000
with perfectly smooth limestone facing stones,

921
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:37.000
and nobody could see the entrance.

922
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:40.000
They came off later in that earthquake in 13001.

923
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:43.000
But when he broke in in the ninth century,

924
00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:45.000
they didn't know where the door was.

925
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:48.000
Apparently there was a place you could almost literally

926
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:49.000
press a switch and open that door.

927
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:50.000
But they couldn't find it.

928
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:53.000
So they broke in with sledge hammers and chisels

929
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.000
and they smashed their way into the great pyramid.

930
00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:57.000
And then at a certain moment,

931
00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:00.000
when they're about 60 or 70 feet into the great pyramid,

932
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:03.000
they hear something dropping in a hollow space.

933
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:06.000
The big something has fallen in a hollow space,

934
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.000
make head towards that sound.

935
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:11.000
And then they enter the original corridor system

936
00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:12.000
of the great pyramid.

937
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:14.000
And that's the way we all go in now.

938
00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:16.000
We go in through that robber's tunnel,

939
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.000
and then we go up the Grand Gallery,

940
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:19.000
but we can also go down.

941
00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:21.000
We can go down to the subterranean chamber,

942
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:23.000
which is 100 feet vertically,

943
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:25.000
beneath the base of the great pyramid,

944
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:27.000
deep in the bedrock.

945
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.000
I actually think that was the original sacred site

946
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:33.000
on that monument, is that subterranean chamber.

947
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:36.000
I don't advise anybody with claustrophobia to go down there.

948
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.000
You're very conscious that you've got a six million ton monument

949
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:43.000
sitting right above you and it plays as earthquakes.

950
00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:45.000
It can be quite oppressive.

951
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:48.000
But that's just a hint of what's under the Giza Plateau.

952
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:51.000
That's just, that's an accessible bit.

953
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:55.000
But it's already obvious that there is so much more.

954
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.000
Some of it's being picked up with ground penetrating radar.

955
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:01.000
And I'll take this opportunity to say that

956
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:04.000
the hysterical reaction of mainstream scientists

957
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:08.000
to the announcement by Philippa Biondi.

958
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:10.000
What is he saying?

959
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:12.000
He's saying that there are enormous structures

960
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.000
under the second pyramid,

961
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:14.000
that not the great pyramid,

962
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.000
under the pyramid attributed to Kafre,

963
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.000
Kufu's successor.

964
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:21.000
The structures that go hundreds of feet deep,

965
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:27.000
under there, structures that involve spiral kind of stairways.

966
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:31.000
The reaction has been overwhelmingly dismissing this.

967
00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:33.000
Archaeologists have not, they won't look further.

968
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.000
They say it's impossible and they won't look at it.

969
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:39.000
And I think that's shameful for people who imagine their scientists.

970
00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:41.000
They should be looking further.

971
00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:43.000
I'd like to see the technology trialled in Turkey.

972
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:45.000
There are underground cities in Turkey,

973
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.000
Kaimakli, for example.

974
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:50.000
We know every room in those underground cities.

975
00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:52.000
Run this technology on them.

976
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:55.000
If they accurately reproduce what we already know is there,

977
00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:57.000
they can be pretty sure they're accurately reproducing

978
00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.000
what's under the Giza pyramids.

979
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.000
We need to do a lot more work before dismissing this.

980
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:05.000
So I remain open to the notion that a huge underworld

981
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.000
awaits discovery under Giza.

982
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.000
And the ancient Egyptians themselves felt that way.

983
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:13.000
They felt the Giza, the ancient name for it was Rostow.

984
00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:15.000
It was an entrance to the underworld.

985
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:18.000
They saw it as an entrance to the afterlife realm.

986
00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:20.000
It makes sense that there would be much,

987
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:22.000
much underground structures there.

988
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:24.000
And you've been alone in the pyramids?

989
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:26.000
The pyramids in the pyramids is difficult.

990
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:29.000
In the sense that the pyramid to me feels like a personality,

991
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:31.000
when I'm in there with a large group,

992
00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:33.000
I feel the pyramid withdrawing.

993
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:36.000
It doesn't want to speak to you anymore.

994
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:38.000
The place becomes a dead space.

995
00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:41.000
But if you can be in there with a very small group

996
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:43.000
or be there alone,

997
00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:45.000
and just be still,

998
00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:48.000
let the silence descend,

999
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.000
sit in that silence,

1000
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.000
in the very low lighting that's in there.

1001
00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:57.000
Just pause and remind yourself

1002
00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:00.000
that you're in the last surviving wonder of the ancient world.

1003
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:04.000
And it's an incredible privilege to be there.

1004
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:06.000
And just let it speak to you.

1005
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:07.000
And it does.

1006
00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:09.000
This is, of course, my critics will say,

1007
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:11.000
another proof that Hancock's a lunatic.

1008
00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:15.000
But I'm just telling you what happens to me.

1009
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:18.000
I think it's a monument that communicates.

1010
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:20.000
What did it say to you?

1011
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:23.000
It said to me go further.

1012
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:24.000
Very much so.

1013
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:29.000
I feel either weird way,

1014
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:32.000
validated by the great pyramid.

1015
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:36.000
I think it's not only me, others as well,

1016
00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.000
who've devoted big chunks of their lives

1017
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:41.000
to the great pyramid like Robert Boval,

1018
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.000
who is a great man, by the way.

1019
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.000
The Orion correlation,

1020
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:47.000
the recognition that the three pyramids on the ground

1021
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:49.000
are laid out in the pattern of the belt stars

1022
00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:51.000
of the constellation of Orion,

1023
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:53.000
makes radical and important changes

1024
00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:55.000
to our understanding of ancient Egypt.

1025
00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:57.000
Again, that's another thing that's been leapt upon

1026
00:59:57.000 --> 00:59:59.000
by the archaeological mafia,

1027
00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:01.000
because they want to destroy every new idea,

1028
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:05.000
rather than spend a bit of time thinking about it.

1029
01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:08.000
You guys know that I only drink one type of coffee these days,

1030
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:10.000
and it's called Cometia.

1031
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:12.000
If you don't know the brand,

1032
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:14.000
they flash-freeze coffee at the perfect moment

1033
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:16.000
to lock in all of the amazing flavor.

1034
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:18.000
They've done something incredible.

1035
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:20.000
And they found the most delicious coffees

1036
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:22.000
from all of these places,

1037
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:26.000
and they've created a world mug competition box

1038
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.000
that you can buy.

1039
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:29.000
So if you want to try coffee from Honduras,

1040
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.000
or Panama, or England,

1041
01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:33.000
or the USA, or Italy, or France,

1042
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:35.000
you can then order that particular coffee

1043
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:37.000
on subscription to come to your house,

1044
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:38.000
no machines necessary.

1045
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:40.000
Not only are they our sponsor

1046
01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:42.000
and a company I have invested in,

1047
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.000
it is the only coffee I drink now.

1048
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.000
Actually this morning when I came to work,

1049
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:48.000
to Cometia, one of these web worlds,

1050
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:49.000
which is another one of my favorites from France.

1051
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:52.000
So if you want to try your own Cometia,

1052
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:54.000
they reserved a certain amount

1053
01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:55.000
for driver's ear listeners.

1054
01:00:55.000 --> 01:01:00.000
Just go to Cometia.com slash D-O-A-C.

1055
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:03.000
And you can get $20 off if you use

1056
01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:05.000
the code D-O-A-C check out.

1057
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:07.000
You know the little traditional SIM card

1058
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:08.000
that goes inside of our phones?

1059
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:10.000
They haven't changed at all

1060
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:12.000
since they were invented in the 90s.

1061
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:14.000
You have this physical piece of plastic

1062
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.000
that means you're locked into one carrier,

1063
01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:17.000
one network,

1064
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:19.000
and the second you cross a border

1065
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:21.000
that carrier can start charging you,

1066
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:22.000
whatever they want.

1067
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:23.000
But there are alternatives.

1068
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:25.000
And today's sponsor, Sally, is one of them.

1069
01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:27.000
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1070
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:29.000
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1071
01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:31.000
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1072
01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:34.000
All of their eSIMs have built-in cybersecurity,

1073
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:35.000
which is great if you're traveling

1074
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:37.000
for work and looking at confidential material.

1075
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.000
I've been using Sally whenever I travel

1076
01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:41.000
because the connection is always reliable

1077
01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:43.000
and it saves me a ton of roaming fees.

1078
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.000
It also means I don't have to deal

1079
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:46.000
with all of the FAF that's around

1080
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.000
sorting out a SIM everywhere I go.

1081
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:49.000
If you want to give it a try,

1082
01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:51.000
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1083
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:53.000
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1084
01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:56.000
And if you want 15% off your first purchase,

1085
01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:59.000
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1086
01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:02.000
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1087
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:04.000
for 15% off.

1088
01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:06.000
Keep that yourself.

1089
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:08.000
If what you're saying is true

1090
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:10.000
around the, you know,

1091
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.000
the first civilizations being 20 plus thousand years ago,

1092
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:19.000
what does that mean for us, for our lives?

1093
01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:21.000
It's really important meaning for us

1094
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:24.000
because it will finally remind us

1095
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:25.000
and tell us once and for all

1096
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:27.000
that we're not what it's all about.

1097
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.000
It's not all about us.

1098
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:31.000
The whole human story is not about us.

1099
01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:33.000
It's not inevitable that it comes to this

1100
01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:35.000
and that we are temporary

1101
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:37.000
like every other civilization.

1102
01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:40.000
We're so filled with arrogance and pride right now

1103
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:42.000
and our technological achievements

1104
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:46.000
are great abilities, our great powers.

1105
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:49.000
And the arrogance that comes with that,

1106
01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:51.000
the Greeks used to call that hubris.

1107
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:54.000
It ultimately ends in nemesis.

1108
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.000
It ultimately brings you down.

1109
01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:58.000
Arrogance is not a good thing.

1110
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.000
It's not a good thing in an individual

1111
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:03.000
and it's a terrible thing in a civilization.

1112
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:05.000
It also means that a lot of the things

1113
01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:08.000
that we've dismissed as conspiracy

1114
01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:12.000
or focus, focus, whatever might not be.

1115
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.000
I mean, you talk a lot about astrology and stuff like that.

1116
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:18.000
I think we should keep open to systems

1117
01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:21.000
that the ancients used, which we've dismissed,

1118
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:24.000
which might be very astrology is one of them.

1119
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:26.000
What does astrology ultimately say?

1120
01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:32.000
It ultimately says that we, these beings, these humans,

1121
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:35.000
aren't isolated but are connected to the universe

1122
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:38.000
and are affected by everything that happens in the universe.

1123
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:41.000
And it's recognizing that there may be patterns in that.

1124
01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:44.000
And instead of just rubbishing that

1125
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:46.000
or doing a few investigations,

1126
01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:49.000
I think maybe we're looking further into that.

1127
01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:51.000
We're looking further into telepathy too.

1128
01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:53.000
My friend, Rupert Sheldraig, a serious scientist.

1129
01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:56.000
One of the very few who's doing serious scientific work

1130
01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:00.000
on issues like telepathy

1131
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:03.000
and like telekinesis, being able to move things

1132
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:05.000
with your mind, mainstream scientists,

1133
01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.000
most of them are just laugh at that.

1134
01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:10.000
Absolute rubbish, yeah, go away, you're a lunatic.

1135
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:12.000
But why are we lunatics to look into those things?

1136
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:15.000
It's really interesting and it's really worth investigating.

1137
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.000
We should realize that we have a heritage

1138
01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:21.000
of hundreds of thousands of years

1139
01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:24.000
and I believe it's even older than 315,000 years.

1140
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:27.000
We do not have a heritage of 100 years,

1141
01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.000
which is the heritage of modern science.

1142
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:32.000
Well, let's be generous.

1143
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:36.000
Let's put modern science even back to the Greeks in a way.

1144
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.000
But it doesn't become what we would recognize as science

1145
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.000
until the 19th century really.

1146
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:43.000
So it's a very young thing.

1147
01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:48.000
If you take the human being as the heart of this

1148
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.000
and you were to find a little pimple on the nose

1149
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:53.000
of that human being, that would be science.

1150
01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:57.000
It's a pimple on the nose of hundreds of thousands

1151
01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:58.000
of years of human experience.

1152
01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:02.000
Why should we be so arrogant to dismiss those hundreds

1153
01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:04.000
of thousands of years of human experience

1154
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:08.000
in the favor of 150 years maximum of so-called science?

1155
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:11.000
I mean, one of the interesting things is

1156
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:14.000
I actually did go to the Amazon rainforest in Peru

1157
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:18.000
and they've discovered these big square things underground.

1158
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:19.000
I've been involved in that.

1159
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:20.000
What is that?

1160
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:25.000
Well, the name that's been given to them is Geoglyphs.

1161
01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:26.000
Geoglyphs?

1162
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:28.000
I think I know this one.

1163
01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:32.000
Nobody knew they existed at all until about 40 years ago.

1164
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:33.000
Really?

1165
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:36.000
And because the Amazon rainforest is a rainforest

1166
01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:41.000
and densely covered with canopy.

1167
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:44.000
However, it's constantly being settled.

1168
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.000
This is a problem in itself.

1169
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.000
It's constantly being settled.

1170
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:49.000
The Amazon is being cleared and it's being turned into farms.

1171
01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:52.000
It's the clearance of bits of the Amazon initially

1172
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:56.000
that exposed these huge geometric structures

1173
01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:58.000
under the rainforest, no longer under,

1174
01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.000
because they cleared the rainforest.

1175
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:03.000
Now with Lidar, I've been involved with Marty Parsonen.

1176
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:05.000
In fact, he was on my Netflix show.

1177
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:07.000
He's an archaeologist from Finland

1178
01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:11.000
and with Alteo Ranzi, a Brazilian geographer.

1179
01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:15.000
What they're doing is a dense Lidar survey

1180
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:18.000
of the whole of Acre province in Brazil.

1181
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:20.000
This is in Acre province as well.

1182
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:23.000
The areas that are still under canopy rainforest.

1183
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:25.000
Lidar can see through the canopy

1184
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:27.000
and it can see raised objects underneath

1185
01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:30.000
and it can actually give you the shape of that object.

1186
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.000
Then they can go in low impact.

1187
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:37.000
Just a few of them go in, check it out, see what's there

1188
01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:39.000
and then begin the archaeology on the site.

1189
01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:40.000
This is a prime example.

1190
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:42.000
I've got a list here of things that we used to believe

1191
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.000
and things that how those beliefs have changed.

1192
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:47.000
One of them was that we used to believe

1193
01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:49.000
that the Amazon was an untouched wilderness.

1194
01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:51.000
But in the 1970s, we discovered

1195
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:53.000
a thousand of these structures.

1196
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:57.000
At least, they're confident now from the Lidar way.

1197
01:06:57.000 --> 01:07:01.000
They're talking of thousands, three, five, six thousand.

1198
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:05.000
There are also roadways that run for 100 kilometers plus.

1199
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.000
There's absolutely no doubt that the Amazon once supported

1200
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:14.000
a population of millions with extraordinary clever management

1201
01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:18.000
of rainforest soils by creating a man-made soil

1202
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:19.000
that they call terra preta.

1203
01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:21.000
It's still used in Brazil today.

1204
01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:26.000
We are having to completely reconceive the Amazon.

1205
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:29.000
It was thought of as a pristine rainforest,

1206
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:32.000
which a few human beings wandered around aimlessly

1207
01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:35.000
in hunting, whatever.

1208
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:40.000
Now we know that it was the homeland

1209
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:45.000
of a very large population who lived in city-sized communities,

1210
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:50.000
who joined those communities with long, straight roadways.

1211
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:53.000
It's as though the veil is being pulled back

1212
01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:56.000
and we're beginning to see a completely untold story

1213
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:57.000
in the Amazon.

1214
01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:02.000
And these geoglyphs, very precise rectangles, triangles,

1215
01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:06.000
circles, squares, all of these geometry, geometry.

1216
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:09.000
What's it doing there in the Amazon?

1217
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:12.000
And when I talked to a local shaman about this,

1218
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:16.000
and I did on camera in the Netflix show,

1219
01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:19.000
he talked to me about how important these places still are to him,

1220
01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:22.000
that these places were made by their ancestors,

1221
01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:25.000
that their places for shamanic gatherings,

1222
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:31.000
places for shamans to use specifically to contact the world beyond.

1223
01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:34.000
Let's be clear about this, all civilizations,

1224
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:36.000
including ours, although we may deny it,

1225
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:38.000
all of them emerged from shamanism.

1226
01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:43.000
Shamanism is the essence of the human adventure

1227
01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:45.000
and all civilizations emerged from shamanism,

1228
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:47.000
and the shamanism, yes.

1229
01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:52.000
Shamanism being the system of using altered states of consciousness

1230
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:57.000
to gain direct access to other levels of reality.

1231
01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:58.000
Psychedelics.

1232
01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:02.000
Yeah, psychedelics or you can fast for a month

1233
01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:04.000
that will give you some visions too.

1234
01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:06.000
There are other ways,

1235
01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:08.000
but psychedelics are the most efficient way

1236
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:10.000
to enter the altered state of consciousness.

1237
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:13.000
And shaman's are masters of the use of plant medicines

1238
01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:14.000
everywhere in the world,

1239
01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:16.000
but particularly in the Amazon rainforest.

1240
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:18.000
This is where you see it most strongly.

1241
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.000
And DMT, the active ingredient of Ayahuasca,

1242
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:25.000
is very fast-acting in the way that it's normally consumed.

1243
01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:28.000
It's normally vaped or smoked.

1244
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:32.000
It produces a 10-minute journey

1245
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.000
literally to the other side of reality.

1246
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:38.000
And there's not much you can do about it once you're in there.

1247
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:40.000
But then you're out again.

1248
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.000
Ayahuasca is a very clever technology.

1249
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:46.000
The Ayahuasca brew contains DMT.

1250
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:49.000
DMT is not orally active.

1251
01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:53.000
So you can drink a tea made of with loads of DMT in it

1252
01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.000
and it's not going to do anything to you

1253
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:59.000
because there's an enzyme in the gut that destroys it.

1254
01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:04.000
The Ayahuasca vine contains a chemical that shuts that enzyme down

1255
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:07.000
and allows the DMT to be absorbed orally,

1256
01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:09.000
producing an experience that can last for hours.

1257
01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:12.000
That can be physically very uncomfortable.

1258
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:14.000
What they're doing at Imperial College

1259
01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:19.000
is they're giving them DMT by intravenous infusion,

1260
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:21.000
using basically anesthesia technology

1261
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:23.000
to constantly top up the dose,

1262
01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:26.000
to keep the individual in the peak state.

1263
01:10:26.000 --> 01:10:28.000
And unlike other psychedelics,

1264
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:30.000
there's a difference with DMT,

1265
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.000
so you can keep on dosing people.

1266
01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:34.000
When you've taken Ayahuasca 80 times?

1267
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:36.000
Something like that.

1268
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:38.000
Something like that.

1269
01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:44.000
It's important to be clear about a number of things.

1270
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:46.000
First of all,

1271
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:49.000
all psychedelics are extremely serious matters.

1272
01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:51.000
They are not to be taken trivially.

1273
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.000
They are extremely serious.

1274
01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:57.000
With experienced use of Ayahuasca,

1275
01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:01.000
one of the very common reports is this moral dimension,

1276
01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:04.000
that you are presented with your own life,

1277
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:06.000
with what you've done with your own life,

1278
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:09.000
with the pain that you may have caused to others.

1279
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:12.000
And suddenly, that pain that you caused to another person,

1280
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:14.000
which you dismissed as they just deserved that,

1281
01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:15.000
they just deserved those words.

1282
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:17.000
You suddenly get it from their point of view.

1283
01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:21.000
You feel the agony that your words caused that person.

1284
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:24.000
And you find yourself, did I do that?

1285
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:26.000
Did I say that?

1286
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:30.000
You suddenly see what you are.

1287
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:32.000
You can't go back into your own past

1288
01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:34.000
and change negative and useless

1289
01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:36.000
and pointless things that you did.

1290
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:37.000
You can't do that.

1291
01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:40.000
But you can avoid repeating them in the future.

1292
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:43.000
And it's that teaching of a moral lesson

1293
01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:46.000
that I find most valuable in Ayahuasca.

1294
01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:50.000
It's helped me to come to terms with my tendency to swift anger.

1295
01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:53.000
I'm very aware that that's a problem I have.

1296
01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:55.000
And it's something I need to do something about.

1297
01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:57.000
Ayahuasca has helped me with that.

1298
01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:01.000
I've become gentler and softer, not gentle enough, maybe.

1299
01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:02.000
It's a journey.

1300
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:05.000
It's not an overnight transformation, not a magic pill.

1301
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:09.000
The main work with Ayahuasca comes after the medicine.

1302
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.000
The main work comes with what you do with the experience,

1303
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:14.000
how you integrate it into your life.

1304
01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:15.000
That's where the work begins.

1305
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:18.000
People say it's so easy to take a brew.

1306
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:20.000
Well, it's not actually not that easy,

1307
01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:24.000
because you've got a vomit and have diarrhea, but easy.

1308
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:26.000
That's where the work begins, not where it ends.

1309
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:27.000
And that emotion?

1310
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:30.000
Does that stem back to your relationship with your parents?

1311
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:32.000
Because I was reading about your early...

1312
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:34.000
Yeah, look, we're all frail human beings.

1313
01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:36.000
We're all messed about in lots of ways.

1314
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:39.000
We all have issues in our lives.

1315
01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:41.000
You said regret.

1316
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:45.000
Yes, I do regret saying hurtful and unkind things

1317
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:48.000
to a number of people over the years.

1318
01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:50.000
I do regret that very much.

1319
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:56.000
I do regret very much that I wasn't mature enough

1320
01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:59.000
to realize why my parents were so difficult.

1321
01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.000
I never really forgave them for that.

1322
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:06.000
I never really forgave them for the strangeness of my childhood

1323
01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:10.000
and the various things that happened.

1324
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:12.000
I never really saw it from their point of view.

1325
01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:14.000
My mother lost three children aside from me.

1326
01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:15.000
I'm an only child,

1327
01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:19.000
but her first child was carried to term before me and born dead.

1328
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:22.000
Then I was born, I lived,

1329
01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:24.000
and then the next two both died at the age of a year.

1330
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.000
Well, I know now as a father,

1331
01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:30.000
I know what kind of catastrophe that is for a person,

1332
01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:33.000
for a mother to lose three children like that.

1333
01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:36.000
You said we had childhood.

1334
01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:39.000
Yeah, so this is me.

1335
01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:43.000
This is little Graham here with my mother and my father.

1336
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:47.000
It was 1954 that we landed in India,

1337
01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:50.000
which my father was a consultant surgeon.

1338
01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:53.000
And so he went as a missionary surgeon to India

1339
01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:55.000
to a place called the Christian Medical College

1340
01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:57.000
in Velor in South India.

1341
01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:59.000
And we lived in a tin hut,

1342
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:01.000
but he was following his faith.

1343
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:03.000
He was doing what was right for him.

1344
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.000
He was giving his skills to help people.

1345
01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:07.000
I realize that now,

1346
01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:09.000
and a lot of resentment I have towards him.

1347
01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:12.000
I probably, you know, shouldn't have.

1348
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:14.000
He was an odd guy.

1349
01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:16.000
He was very eccentric.

1350
01:14:16.000 --> 01:14:19.000
He used to take me into watch dissections.

1351
01:14:19.000 --> 01:14:22.000
There were still hangings in India at that time,

1352
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.000
and he would dissect the prisoners after the hangings.

1353
01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:27.000
He had me in there watching it.

1354
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:31.000
He took me later on five.

1355
01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:33.000
You were watching bodies being cut up by five.

1356
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:34.000
I was, yeah.

1357
01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:35.000
Absolutely.

1358
01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:36.000
Very strange.

1359
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:37.000
It was presented to me.

1360
01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:39.000
It was completely normal,

1361
01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:41.000
but it was strange.

1362
01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:44.000
He was a good man, I believe.

1363
01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:48.000
But I think allowing a four to five-year-old child

1364
01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:52.000
to see those things is deeply traumatic in a way

1365
01:14:52.000 --> 01:14:55.000
that you probably don't recognize until later.

1366
01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:56.000
I agree.

1367
01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:58.000
It's come home to me more and more

1368
01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:00.000
as the years have gone by

1369
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.000
that what happened to me in those years in India

1370
01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:05.000
scarred me deeply.

1371
01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:07.000
It wasn't just the operating theaters

1372
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.000
and the dissections.

1373
01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:14.000
It was the gloom and the misery and the despair

1374
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:17.000
that settled over my family at that time.

1375
01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:19.000
And I don't think I ever really recovered from that.

1376
01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:20.000
Did you have nightmares?

1377
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:21.000
Yeah.

1378
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:24.000
And what were those nightmares?

1379
01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:27.000
Usually nightmares of loss.

1380
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:31.000
Usually nightmares of suddenly I'm alone.

1381
01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:36.000
I'm in a completely isolated lost alone.

1382
01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:39.000
The reason I ask these questions is

1383
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:42.000
there's only ever been one other guest

1384
01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:45.000
who I sat here with a couple of years ago.

1385
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:48.000
Who I believe's dad was a surgeon

1386
01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:51.000
and his dad brought him in to watch operations

1387
01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:54.000
and dissections when he was young.

1388
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:57.000
And it scarred him in a way that he didn't realize

1389
01:15:57.000 --> 01:15:59.000
until later.

1390
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:01.000
And he told me about the nightmares of waking up in the night

1391
01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:03.000
and seeing those bodies of those people

1392
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:06.000
around his bed on a predictable basis

1393
01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.000
and told me he's actually the guy

1394
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:12.000
that coached Michael Jordan and then Kobe

1395
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:15.000
before Kobe Bryant passed away

1396
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.000
and he told me still as an adult

1397
01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:19.000
those bodies joined him at night time

1398
01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:20.000
so he'll wake up at night time

1399
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:23.000
and he'll see them around his bed.

1400
01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:24.000
Well, thank you, Universe.

1401
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:26.000
That didn't happen to me.

1402
01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:30.000
I don't remember having gruesome nightmares.

1403
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.000
I remember a feeling of loneliness

1404
01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:34.000
and abandonment.

1405
01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:35.000
That's what I remember.

1406
01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:37.000
Loneliness and abandonment.

1407
01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:39.000
I've always felt that way.

1408
01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:42.000
I was always an outsider at school.

1409
01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:45.000
Everywhere I've been, all my life.

1410
01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:46.000
That's what I'm for.

1411
01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:48.000
I'm here to be an outsider.

1412
01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:50.000
I've come to that conclusion.

1413
01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:53.000
And I need to do that well.

1414
01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:56.000
I need to provide an alternative point of view on the past.

1415
01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:58.000
There's a real cost of being an outsider.

1416
01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:00.000
Oh, yeah, but there are also some benefits.

1417
01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:02.000
You know, we are what we are.

1418
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:04.000
And for me, I was always strange.

1419
01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:07.000
I had this childhood in India.

1420
01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:10.000
I didn't fit into the British school system.

1421
01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:12.000
I was a total failure at school.

1422
01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:14.000
I could not connect.

1423
01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:16.000
I could not connect with any of it.

1424
01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:18.000
It seemed I just didn't get it.

1425
01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:19.000
What was this about?

1426
01:17:19.000 --> 01:17:21.000
And the cruelty, the viciousness.

1427
01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:23.000
My dad went to a boarding school

1428
01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:24.000
and had a good experience.

1429
01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:26.000
So he sent me to a boarding school in Durham

1430
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:27.000
in the north of England.

1431
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:29.000
It was the cruelest place.

1432
01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:31.000
Beatings going on.

1433
01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:34.000
I was repeatedly beaten about the bare buttocks

1434
01:17:34.000 --> 01:17:37.000
by a sadistic headmaster with a cane.

1435
01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:39.000
I couldn't fit in with the other kids at school.

1436
01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:42.000
And I don't feel victimized for being an outsider.

1437
01:17:42.000 --> 01:17:44.000
I feel it's a privilege.

1438
01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:47.000
I feel I've been given an opportunity

1439
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:49.000
to take a different view of things

1440
01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:51.000
as a result of being an outsider.

1441
01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:53.000
Are there words unsaid here

1442
01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:55.000
with these two people in your life?

1443
01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:57.000
There are so many words unsaid.

1444
01:17:57.000 --> 01:18:00.000
I'd like to go back to my mom and say,

1445
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:03.000
you know, I understand why you were so obsessed

1446
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:04.000
with keeping me alive

1447
01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:06.000
and making sure that I did something with my life.

1448
01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:08.000
And I'd like to say to my dad,

1449
01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:09.000
look, you were pretty crazy

1450
01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:13.000
but you did at least inspire me to be eccentric.

1451
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:15.000
It's funny thing getting older.

1452
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:19.000
I'm 75, 76 in August.

1453
01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:21.000
One of the things it does is

1454
01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:23.000
you realize how collapsed life actually is.

1455
01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:25.000
I remember being a teenager.

1456
01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:27.000
I remember being a young man

1457
01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:29.000
and I remember being middle-aged.

1458
01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:31.000
And the feeling is, you're immortal.

1459
01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:32.000
It's going to go on forever.

1460
01:18:32.000 --> 01:18:34.000
Everything's going to go on forever.

1461
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:35.000
And it's long.

1462
01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:36.000
It's long.

1463
01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:38.000
Lots of time to do the things you want to do.

1464
01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:40.000
I have a message.

1465
01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:41.000
No, it's not long.

1466
01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:43.000
There is not lots of time.

1467
01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:46.000
If there's things you want to do with your life, start now.

1468
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:47.000
Start right away.

1469
01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:48.000
Don't wait.

1470
01:18:48.000 --> 01:18:50.000
Otherwise, you'll not have the opportunity.

1471
01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:51.000
Life is very short.

1472
01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:53.000
It's a beautiful, beautiful gift

1473
01:18:53.000 --> 01:18:55.000
that the universe has given to us.

1474
01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:58.000
We are responsible for returning that gift

1475
01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:00.000
by as far as possible

1476
01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:01.000
within the circumstances

1477
01:19:01.000 --> 01:19:02.000
that the universe has given us,

1478
01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:03.000
living a full life

1479
01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:05.000
and contributing something

1480
01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:07.000
worthwhile to that life.

1481
01:19:07.000 --> 01:19:09.000
Not being a robot.

1482
01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:11.000
Not being commanded what to do.

1483
01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:14.000
We need to learn to think for ourselves.

1484
01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:16.000
This is something that

1485
01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:18.000
is so easily forgotten.

1486
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.000
It's a miracle

1487
01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:22.000
that you and I are sitting here at all.

1488
01:19:22.000 --> 01:19:24.000
I'm here that you're here that we're here together.

1489
01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:25.000
It's absolute miracle.

1490
01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:28.000
It's the result of billions and billions of years

1491
01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:30.000
of processes in the universe,

1492
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:31.000
which had nothing to do with us,

1493
01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:34.000
randomly bring us together at this point.

1494
01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:37.000
It's really quite a miraculous situation to be alive,

1495
01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:40.000
to be born at all, is a miracle.

1496
01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:44.000
I think it was Voltaire who, talking about reincarnation,

1497
01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:45.000
who said,

1498
01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:48.000
it's no more extraordinary to be born twice

1499
01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:49.000
than to be born once.

1500
01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:51.000
And I think there's a point in that.

1501
01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:52.000
Are you religious?

1502
01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:53.000
Do you believe in a God or...?

1503
01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:55.000
I would say that I am...

1504
01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:58.000
that I pay attention,

1505
01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:00.000
close attention to what I would regard as

1506
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:03.000
the spiritual, non-physical side of life.

1507
01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:06.000
But I do not belong to any organized religion.

1508
01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:08.000
One of the things I don't like about organized religion

1509
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:10.000
is that your relationship to the divine,

1510
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:12.000
whatever you call the divine,

1511
01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:13.000
the spirit world, whatever you want to call it,

1512
01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:16.000
your relationship is mediated in some way,

1513
01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:20.000
some priest or rabbi or muller,

1514
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:23.000
teaches you how to mediate that relationship.

1515
01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:26.000
And I think what's important for me anyway

1516
01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:29.000
in the spiritual inquiry is a direct relationship,

1517
01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:30.000
a direct experience.

1518
01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:32.000
Rather than being taught something,

1519
01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.000
I want to experience it for myself.

1520
01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:37.000
And that's why I found that I wask a very, very valuable

1521
01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:40.000
because it has enabled me to experience something

1522
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:43.000
that is absolutely impossible to experience

1523
01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:45.000
in normal everyday life.

1524
01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:47.000
We're so plugged in, we're so plugged in

1525
01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:49.000
to the physical world and we have to be.

1526
01:20:49.000 --> 01:20:50.000
We've got to be.

1527
01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:52.000
We've got to obey the laws of physics.

1528
01:20:52.000 --> 01:20:54.000
We've got to deal with the economics of our circumstances.

1529
01:20:54.000 --> 01:20:56.000
You know, we have to make our way through life.

1530
01:20:56.000 --> 01:20:59.000
All of those things we've got to do.

1531
01:20:59.000 --> 01:21:03.000
But if they become our total focus,

1532
01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:06.000
we become shut off from everything

1533
01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:08.000
and anything else that may exist.

1534
01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:11.000
And what the big psychedelics can do

1535
01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:13.000
if they're taken into right circumstances

1536
01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:15.000
with the right advice,

1537
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.000
with sincere intention,

1538
01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:20.000
what they can do is get you out of your own way

1539
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:23.000
and allow you to connect to that wider realm

1540
01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:25.000
that normally you cannot connect to.

1541
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:27.000
And yes, I do believe that a wider realm exists.

1542
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:31.000
Just in the same way that, you know,

1543
01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:33.000
before the invention of the microscope,

1544
01:21:33.000 --> 01:21:35.000
we had no idea that there were bacteria.

1545
01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:36.000
I think I'm right about that.

1546
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:38.000
We started seeing these tiny little things swimming around.

1547
01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:40.000
Gosh, major discovery.

1548
01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:41.000
Well, they were always there.

1549
01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:43.000
We just didn't have the kit to see them.

1550
01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:45.000
And I'm suggesting that what psychedelics can be,

1551
01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:48.000
and certainly what they used as shamans buy for,

1552
01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:51.000
is technology, a device,

1553
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:53.000
forgetting you out of your own way

1554
01:21:53.000 --> 01:21:56.000
and allowing you to connect with other levels of reality

1555
01:21:56.000 --> 01:21:58.000
that in daily life,

1556
01:21:58.000 --> 01:22:00.000
it doesn't serve you to be connected with.

1557
01:22:01.000 --> 01:22:04.000
The interesting thing about DMT in particular

1558
01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:06.000
is when you speak to people who have done DMT.

1559
01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:08.000
You know, I spend about a year working

1560
01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:10.000
in a quite a big psychedelics company

1561
01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:11.000
just to, I got really fascinated.

1562
01:22:11.000 --> 01:22:12.000
I'd left my company.

1563
01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:14.000
I didn't have anything to do with my time.

1564
01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:15.000
So I started this podcast.

1565
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:17.000
And I also, on YouTube.

1566
01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:20.000
And I also started working at a psychedelics business

1567
01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:22.000
because I found the studies on mental health

1568
01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:23.000
and psychedelics really interesting.

1569
01:22:23.000 --> 01:22:25.000
So I have quite a deep understanding,

1570
01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:27.000
I guess, higher than average of either gain

1571
01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:29.000
and I ask her in DMT.

1572
01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:31.000
And my partner is very, very spiritual

1573
01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:33.000
and has done all these things as well.

1574
01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:35.000
So one of the fascinating things

1575
01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:37.000
is how similar people's experiences are

1576
01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:39.000
on something like DMT.

1577
01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:41.000
The funnily enough, your description

1578
01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:44.000
of these creatures saying,

1579
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:46.000
you belong to us now,

1580
01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:48.000
is almost verbatim.

1581
01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:51.000
One of my friends described two weeks ago

1582
01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:55.000
that they were teleported into this like 4K realm

1583
01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:58.000
where these creatures that are like slightly animal

1584
01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:00.000
in that anatomical structure,

1585
01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:02.000
maybe slightly a little bit human as well.

1586
01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:06.000
Basically, like had taken hold of him

1587
01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:09.000
and they were very curious and inspecting him,

1588
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:10.000
very colorful realm,

1589
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:11.000
and then they kind of sent him back,

1590
01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:13.000
or at least, you know, after them.

1591
01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:14.000
And it does make one wonder.

1592
01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:16.000
I think one of my conclusions was,

1593
01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:18.000
if inhaling a small chemical

1594
01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:21.000
can completely take me to another place,

1595
01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:24.000
then from a reasoning perspective,

1596
01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:27.000
it's just one inhale of a chemical,

1597
01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:32.000
then it goes to say that my current perception of reality

1598
01:23:32.000 --> 01:23:37.000
is just, is this fragile as an inhale of a chemical?

1599
01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:40.000
Like me thinking that I'm here with you now,

1600
01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:44.000
is this fragile as inhaling one chemical.

1601
01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:46.000
So to think that this is based reality

1602
01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:48.000
when the difference between this

1603
01:23:48.000 --> 01:23:51.000
and being with some grasshopper people in 4K,

1604
01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:54.000
is literally an inhale.

1605
01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:56.000
For me, I was like, oh wow, okay.

1606
01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:58.000
It's an extraordinary realization

1607
01:23:58.000 --> 01:23:59.000
when that comes in.

1608
01:23:59.000 --> 01:24:02.000
And it causes us to question the nature of reality itself.

1609
01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:06.000
And this is what's really important

1610
01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:07.000
about these medicines.

1611
01:24:07.000 --> 01:24:09.000
First and foremost, you're right.

1612
01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:11.000
These psychedelic medicines

1613
01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:15.000
are proving incredibly effective as therapeutic tools.

1614
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:16.000
And that's great.

1615
01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:19.000
I really think that's incredibly valuable.

1616
01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:21.000
But there's another level to go,

1617
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:24.000
which is the inquiry into the nature of reality

1618
01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:27.000
and the inquiry into what consciousness is.

1619
01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:29.000
These medicines are very effective

1620
01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:31.000
means to conduct that inquiry.

1621
01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:33.000
And that's why I applaud what they're doing

1622
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:35.000
at Imperial College in London.

1623
01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:37.000
They're also going to be doing trials

1624
01:24:37.000 --> 01:24:40.000
at the University of California, San Diego.

1625
01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:44.000
They're going to be doing trials in Costa Rica.

1626
01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:46.000
A whole range of places now are looking into this

1627
01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:48.000
because it's really interesting.

1628
01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:50.000
People coming back and reporting the same experience

1629
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:52.000
when they haven't compared notes yet.

1630
01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:54.000
How do we explain that?

1631
01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:56.000
It's in a vision.

1632
01:24:56.000 --> 01:24:58.000
And people say that at the moment,

1633
01:24:58.000 --> 01:25:00.000
the default mode is to dismiss it

1634
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:02.000
and say that's just rubbish, don't waste time on it.

1635
01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:06.000
Our preconceptions about the nature of reality

1636
01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:10.000
should not limit our inquiry into the nature of reality.

1637
01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:13.000
And at the moment, still, unfortunately,

1638
01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:16.000
there are preconceptions about the nature of reality,

1639
01:25:16.000 --> 01:25:18.000
which is that it's material-based,

1640
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:20.000
that there's nothing else to it, really.

1641
01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:22.000
Everything is reduced to matter.

1642
01:25:22.000 --> 01:25:24.000
Even consciousness is reduced to matter.

1643
01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:27.000
It's reduced to the physical matter of the brain.

1644
01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:29.000
We don't know that for sure.

1645
01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:31.000
We don't know what's going on.

1646
01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:33.000
Consciousness is absolutely not understood.

1647
01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:35.000
And so when we have mysteries,

1648
01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:37.000
like people who are injected a small dose

1649
01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:39.000
of a chemical-like DMT

1650
01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:42.000
and go off into a completely other reality,

1651
01:25:42.000 --> 01:25:44.000
that's really interesting.

1652
01:25:44.000 --> 01:25:46.000
And it's at least as interesting,

1653
01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:48.000
if not more interesting,

1654
01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:50.000
than exploring other planets right now.

1655
01:25:50.000 --> 01:25:53.000
I think we need to explore ourselves first.

1656
01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:57.000
We're not in shape as a species

1657
01:25:57.000 --> 01:25:59.000
to start exploring the universe.

1658
01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:02.000
We don't want to export our toxicity

1659
01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:05.000
to other parts of the universe until we've overcome it,

1660
01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:07.000
until we've grown up as a species,

1661
01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:08.000
which we haven't done yet.

1662
01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:10.000
We need to know ourselves.

1663
01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:12.000
Psychedelics are one way to do that.

1664
01:26:12.000 --> 01:26:14.000
Not used irresponsibly,

1665
01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:18.000
but used responsibly in a structured, careful, thoughtful way.

1666
01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:22.000
They can be very helpful in knowing ourselves.

1667
01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:24.000
That's the journey we need to do first.

1668
01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:26.000
We go to Mars by all means,

1669
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:27.000
you know, go to the moon,

1670
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:29.000
we go even further.

1671
01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:30.000
But do this first.

1672
01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:32.000
Know who you are first before you start

1673
01:26:32.000 --> 01:26:35.000
doing those bigger and wider investigations.

1674
01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:36.000
Get all that sorted out,

1675
01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:39.000
because we hardly sorted out anything on this planet,

1676
01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:41.000
and we're talking about exploring other planets.

1677
01:26:41.000 --> 01:26:44.000
Well, I'm all in favor of exploring other planets,

1678
01:26:44.000 --> 01:26:47.000
but I'd like to sort out things on this planet first.

1679
01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:49.000
That's where the resources should be going,

1680
01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:51.000
and we should stop kidding ourselves,

1681
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.000
that we can just escape this planet

1682
01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:55.000
and make a complete shithole of it,

1683
01:26:55.000 --> 01:26:57.000
leave it and go and live somewhere else.

1684
01:26:57.000 --> 01:26:59.000
No, we can fix this.

1685
01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:01.000
We are capable of fixing this.

1686
01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:03.000
We are capable of fixing everything.

1687
01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:05.000
Human beings have enormous potential.

1688
01:27:05.000 --> 01:27:09.000
We're just using a fraction of one percent of it at the moment.

1689
01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:11.000
The question I, you know, I mean,

1690
01:27:11.000 --> 01:27:13.000
the obvious question that comes to mind is how?

1691
01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:17.000
Maybe, I don't know, maybe some kind of leader comes along.

1692
01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:19.000
Could be.

1693
01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:22.000
I think we need to move past leaders.

1694
01:27:22.000 --> 01:27:24.000
I just don't know how else humans would change

1695
01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:26.000
without some kind of leadership.

1696
01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:28.000
It's very difficult to see. I agree with you.

1697
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:30.000
It's very difficult to see how it happens.

1698
01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:33.000
One person at a time, slowly through word about,

1699
01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:35.000
through experience.

1700
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:38.000
But look, everything in the ayahuasca garden

1701
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:40.000
is not all flowers either.

1702
01:27:40.000 --> 01:27:42.000
There's a lot of very wrong behavior going on there.

1703
01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:44.000
People are exploiting that medicine.

1704
01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:46.000
Basically drug dealers are exploiting that medicine

1705
01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:48.000
and offering it irresponsibly

1706
01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:51.000
to people in groups of 100 or even more.

1707
01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:55.000
That's actually really, really stupid to do that.

1708
01:27:55.000 --> 01:27:57.000
Ayahuasca is an intimate experience

1709
01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:00.000
and it needs to be done in a very small group,

1710
01:28:00.000 --> 01:28:03.000
not a very large group.

1711
01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:05.000
So it's not all roses.

1712
01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:09.000
I'm not trying to paint these medicines in a false light.

1713
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:12.000
They have their downsides. They have their problems.

1714
01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:14.000
They are extremely serious.

1715
01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:16.000
We should always research and investigate

1716
01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:18.000
before any experience with psychedelics.

1717
01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:20.000
But they have a part to play.

1718
01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:22.000
And it's an important part.

1719
01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:24.000
And thank God we're seeing its effects,

1720
01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:26.000
the cytoside been effect on long-term depression.

1721
01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:28.000
Very important.

1722
01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:31.000
Post-traumatic stress disorder. Very important.

1723
01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:34.000
These therapeutic breakthroughs hopefully

1724
01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:37.000
will open the door to further inquiries

1725
01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:40.000
into the kind of work that's being done at Imperial College.

1726
01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:44.000
What does this really tell us about the mystery of consciousness?

1727
01:28:44.000 --> 01:28:47.000
What does this really tell us about what we think is real?

1728
01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:49.000
If you're thinking about starting a business,

1729
01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:51.000
one of the first decisions you'll have to make

1730
01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:53.000
is actually one of the most important,

1731
01:28:53.000 --> 01:28:55.000
which is where do you build that business?

1732
01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:57.000
Our product team, who manages everything we do

1733
01:28:57.000 --> 01:28:59.000
from our conversation cards to our diaries,

1734
01:28:59.000 --> 01:29:02.000
has always used our sponsor Shopify.

1735
01:29:02.000 --> 01:29:03.000
There are a few reasons for this.

1736
01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:06.000
But one of the big ones is that when you're running a business,

1737
01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:10.000
you really need your own store and your own customer data.

1738
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:12.000
And Shopify gives you exactly that.

1739
01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:14.000
You are renting space from someone else's platform,

1740
01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:16.000
hoping the rules don't suddenly change.

1741
01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:19.000
And you avoid the classic founder challenges that inevitably come,

1742
01:29:19.000 --> 01:29:21.000
like sorting out payments and logistics and storefronts

1743
01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:23.000
because it's already built into Shopify.

1744
01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:25.000
Those early days are messy enough

1745
01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:27.000
without the infrastructure challenge

1746
01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:29.000
to create extra problems for you.

1747
01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:32.000
And Shopify's distribution piece is underrated too,

1748
01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:34.000
because your products automatically get in front of people

1749
01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:36.000
on Google, TikTok, YouTube, ChatGBT,

1750
01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:39.000
which again isn't something you have to figure out yourself.

1751
01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:41.000
It's just already built into their platform.

1752
01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:43.000
If you are serious about starting your own thing,

1753
01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:47.000
start your free trial at Shopify.com slash Bartlett.

1754
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:52.000
Through your journey, through ancient civilizations,

1755
01:29:52.000 --> 01:29:55.000
what have you come to learn about what this consciousness thing is,

1756
01:29:55.000 --> 01:29:57.000
if anything at all, or at least what people believed

1757
01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.000
and how this mythologies were similar?

1758
01:29:59.000 --> 01:30:03.000
Yes, I've partly come to this through the ancient tech.

1759
01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:09.000
There's a very specific scene in a number of the ancient Egyptian funerary texts.

1760
01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:12.000
It's called the Judgment Scene.

1761
01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:16.000
And what you see is, you see the deceased entering into a hall

1762
01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:21.000
into a room at the end of which sits the goddess Cyrus enthroned.

1763
01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:26.000
And the deceased is led into the hall by the goddess Mart.

1764
01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:29.000
She's recognized by a feather that she wears in her head dress.

1765
01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:35.000
She's the goddess of truth, justice, and cosmic harmony.

1766
01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:38.000
He enters the hall.

1767
01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:41.000
There's a scale in the hall.

1768
01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:46.000
In one pan of the scale is an object that represents his heart,

1769
01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:48.000
oblique, his soul.

1770
01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:51.000
Heart and soul were the same thing for the Egyptians in that sense.

1771
01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:55.000
And in the other pan is the feather of Mart.

1772
01:30:56.000 --> 01:30:59.000
The feather of truth, harmony, and cosmic justice.

1773
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:03.000
You do not want your heart to outweigh the feather.

1774
01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:09.000
At that moment, you want at the very least to be in balance.

1775
01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:13.000
And in order to be in balance, then comes into question

1776
01:31:13.000 --> 01:31:16.000
the whole way that you've lived your life.

1777
01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:19.000
Up on the wall of the hall, there are 42 little figures.

1778
01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:21.000
They're called the 42 negative assessors.

1779
01:31:22.000 --> 01:31:24.000
Each one of them is going to ask you a question.

1780
01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:25.000
Did you steal?

1781
01:31:25.000 --> 01:31:28.000
Did you kill actually the Ten Commandments are all in there

1782
01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:30.000
and a lot more as well?

1783
01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:34.000
Ideally, you should be able to answer no to all of those questions.

1784
01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:38.000
But the ancient Egyptians always understood how frail human beings are

1785
01:31:38.000 --> 01:31:40.000
and that we can always make mistakes.

1786
01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:43.000
The question is, what do we do when we make a mistake?

1787
01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:44.000
Do we learn from it?

1788
01:31:44.000 --> 01:31:46.000
Or do we keep on repeating it?

1789
01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:49.000
And what I read into that is, you were given.

1790
01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:53.000
You, the deceased, you were given an incredible opportunity.

1791
01:31:53.000 --> 01:31:56.000
We allowed you to be born in a human body.

1792
01:31:56.000 --> 01:32:01.000
You could have a range of experiences that no other physical form on your planet could have.

1793
01:32:01.000 --> 01:32:04.000
You had this huge brain, you had this enormous capacity.

1794
01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:06.000
We gave it this to you.

1795
01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:09.000
What did you do with it?

1796
01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:11.000
Did you use it well?

1797
01:32:11.000 --> 01:32:13.000
Or did you squander it and waste it?

1798
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:17.000
At that moment, you'd better be there with some answers about how you used it well.

1799
01:32:17.000 --> 01:32:22.000
So as I come towards the end of my life, I look very carefully at my life.

1800
01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:27.000
And I try to undo wrongs that I have done in the past, if I can.

1801
01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:30.000
And I try to make sure I don't do any more in the future.

1802
01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:37.000
I want to be a nurturing and positive and useful person to the people around me.

1803
01:32:37.000 --> 01:32:41.000
The health situation you've gone through has clearly made you quite introspective.

1804
01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:44.000
Probably more so than you, you might have been 10 years ago, I'm guessing.

1805
01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:48.000
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I was still immortal 10 years ago.

1806
01:32:48.000 --> 01:32:55.000
Listen, each and every one of us, every single human being on this planet could die in the next minute.

1807
01:32:55.000 --> 01:32:57.000
Life is that fragile.

1808
01:32:57.000 --> 01:33:02.000
It's that sudden you can never predict how long you're going to live.

1809
01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:08.000
But what something like this does, it focuses the mind and it does make me wish more and more

1810
01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:13.000
that I can leave this life with as few regrets as possible.

1811
01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:20.000
And that I can feel that I played a useful and positive role in the life of others.

1812
01:33:20.000 --> 01:33:30.000
And that I even played in some way a useful and positive role in the life of the species to which I belong.

1813
01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:32.000
Are you happy?

1814
01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:37.000
I am very happy in a lot of ways.

1815
01:33:37.000 --> 01:33:43.000
I'm blessed to have lived the life I've lived, to have traveled the world,

1816
01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:47.000
to have the adventures that I have had.

1817
01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:51.000
I'm blessed with a beautiful and wonderful wife and companion, my wife Santa.

1818
01:33:51.000 --> 01:33:54.000
You've got this wonderful picture of her. Yeah, close.

1819
01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:59.000
That's me and Santa. We met when we were about 40 years old.

1820
01:33:59.000 --> 01:34:07.000
And I don't think we've been apart more than four days in the entire 30 plus years since then.

1821
01:34:07.000 --> 01:34:08.000
Wow.

1822
01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:10.000
We do everything together. We travel together.

1823
01:34:10.000 --> 01:34:12.000
Santa's a photographer, brilliant photographer.

1824
01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:15.000
And I do not have a great visual eye.

1825
01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:18.000
So we work together. I do the words, Santa does the pictures.

1826
01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:21.000
We have the adventures together. We did the scuba diving together.

1827
01:34:21.000 --> 01:34:26.000
Santa lost her life twice in intense currents, scuba diving.

1828
01:34:26.000 --> 01:34:29.000
She's brave. She's an adventurer.

1829
01:34:29.000 --> 01:34:31.000
She's a wonderful mother.

1830
01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:33.000
This is so important.

1831
01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:35.000
Santa and I have six children between us.

1832
01:34:35.000 --> 01:34:37.000
Santa brought two from her previous marriage.

1833
01:34:37.000 --> 01:34:41.000
I brought two from my first marriage and two from my second marriage.

1834
01:34:41.000 --> 01:34:46.000
So six children from three broken marriages is a potential disaster.

1835
01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:51.000
Santa brought them all together into a group of loving, deeply committed siblings,

1836
01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:54.000
who care for one another, who are constantly in each other's lives,

1837
01:34:54.000 --> 01:35:00.000
who there to support one another. Santa did that by just being a brilliant loving person.

1838
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:07.000
So I'm very happy to have such a great partner who's stood by me through thick and thin

1839
01:35:07.000 --> 01:35:13.000
and who's brought out these wonderful characters in our children and now our grandchildren.

1840
01:35:13.000 --> 01:35:17.000
Nine grandchildren, six grandkids, all of its down to Santa.

1841
01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:20.000
It's remarkable that through all the wonders of human history

1842
01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:23.000
and all the things we talked about, that love,

1843
01:35:23.000 --> 01:35:28.000
like this kind of romantic love, is so central, so important,

1844
01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:30.000
so central to our happiness.

1845
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:35.000
I just thought, oh, it's just a wonderful reminder of how easy it is to get caught up in the material

1846
01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:39.000
and all the toxic worries.

1847
01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:42.000
So much of it comes from just the simplicity of falling in love with someone.

1848
01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:46.000
Love is what it's all about and love is love is giving.

1849
01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:49.000
It's giving yourself to somebody else.

1850
01:35:49.000 --> 01:35:51.000
It's putting me other person.

1851
01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:53.000
So I'm going to end up crying this.

1852
01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:59.000
This is what my wife does all the time with everybody.

1853
01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:05.000
She puts other people first and others benefit enormously from that.

1854
01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:07.000
I'm very fortunate.

1855
01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:12.000
I think if I hadn't met Santa when I did

1856
01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:15.000
and we hadn't formed his joint life,

1857
01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:19.000
I think I would have made nothing of my life, nothing at all.

1858
01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:21.000
I think it would have just gone down the tubes.

1859
01:36:21.000 --> 01:36:25.000
I needed a loving, steering hand at that point.

1860
01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:27.000
Anyway, very lucky. I am happy.

1861
01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.000
There are things that make me unhappy, of course,

1862
01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:31.000
just like every other human being.

1863
01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:36.000
I don't understand why those who are bitterly opposed to my work

1864
01:36:36.000 --> 01:36:39.000
want to try and present me as some kind of fraud or grifter.

1865
01:36:39.000 --> 01:36:44.000
But I suppose it's an easy way to lazily dismiss somebody else.

1866
01:36:44.000 --> 01:36:48.000
Another thing that has been used is because I've considered

1867
01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:51.000
the possibility of a lost civilization,

1868
01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:55.000
having an influence on other known historical civilization,

1869
01:36:55.000 --> 01:36:58.000
I've been accused of racism as well,

1870
01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:04.000
that I've been accused of taking away the authenticity of Indigenous achievements.

1871
01:37:04.000 --> 01:37:08.000
And that again has been without any receipts.

1872
01:37:08.000 --> 01:37:12.000
It's not just thrown out there as an accusation.

1873
01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:15.000
Now, for me, with a multi-ethnic family,

1874
01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:20.000
that racism abuse that has been thrown at me constantly

1875
01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:23.000
is extremely hurtful and extremely painful.

1876
01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:26.000
It's one of the few things that have been thrown at me

1877
01:37:26.000 --> 01:37:28.000
that I actually cannot forgive.

1878
01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:33.000
It's unforgivable to use that lazy, easy dismissal

1879
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:38.000
in a society where a lot of people don't read anymore.

1880
01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:41.000
I mean, pretty much guarantee people who hear that on the internet

1881
01:37:41.000 --> 01:37:44.000
they're not going to go and read the books and actually find out what I said.

1882
01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:46.000
They're just going to take it as face value.

1883
01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:48.000
So that does hurt and it does make me sad.

1884
01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:50.000
But generally, I'm blessed, I'm lucky,

1885
01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:54.000
I've lived a fantastic privileged life,

1886
01:37:54.000 --> 01:37:57.000
I've explored the world, I'm surrounded by love,

1887
01:37:57.000 --> 01:38:01.000
and onwards and upwards as far as I'm concerned.

1888
01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:03.000
Well, you know, Graham, I think at the end of the day,

1889
01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:07.000
the thing that enjoys is the impact, the curiosity

1890
01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:09.000
that you've provoked in people,

1891
01:38:09.000 --> 01:38:12.000
allowed them to wander beyond the narrowness of our lives,

1892
01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:13.000
which is quite miserable.

1893
01:38:13.000 --> 01:38:15.000
A narrow life is, it was quite like a miserable life,

1894
01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:17.000
where you can't be open-minded and explore,

1895
01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:19.000
and that's why I love these conversations.

1896
01:38:19.000 --> 01:38:21.000
It's not to say that I always accept

1897
01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:22.000
when I have these kind of conversations,

1898
01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:24.000
everything to be 100% true,

1899
01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:29.000
but the net benefit for me is just expanding my mind to possibility.

1900
01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:32.000
And like, please don't rob me of the opportunity

1901
01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:34.000
to expand my mind to possibility.

1902
01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:37.000
What would my life become without possibility or hope

1903
01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:38.000
or all these things?

1904
01:38:38.000 --> 01:38:41.000
And actually, when I look at graphs like this,

1905
01:38:41.000 --> 01:38:44.000
that show how our beliefs and scientific understanding

1906
01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:46.000
has changed, even in recent times,

1907
01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:49.000
as recent as 2017 on this particular graph,

1908
01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:51.000
I get, well, I have some arrogance

1909
01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:53.000
to assume that I know it all today.

1910
01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:56.000
Totally, things are constantly changing.

1911
01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:59.000
Every turn of the spade in an archaeological dig

1912
01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:01.000
can change the whole story.

1913
01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:02.000
Change the whole story.

1914
01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:04.000
This is not limited to archaeology.

1915
01:39:04.000 --> 01:39:07.000
This is found in all fields where there are specialists

1916
01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:10.000
that they tend to get locked into a particular reference frame,

1917
01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:13.000
and actually defend it in a territorial way.

1918
01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:15.000
It becomes like a war,

1919
01:39:15.000 --> 01:39:18.000
and they feel absolutely responsible

1920
01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:20.000
to defend that territory against all comers,

1921
01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:22.000
and will use any dirty tricks

1922
01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:25.000
that are needed to be used in order to defeat the enemy.

1923
01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:27.000
So you asked me a straightforward question,

1924
01:39:27.000 --> 01:39:29.000
am I happy? Yes, I am happy.

1925
01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:31.000
And I honestly answered you that there are certain things,

1926
01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:34.000
particularly the racism assaults on me

1927
01:39:34.000 --> 01:39:36.000
that do make me extremely unhappy.

1928
01:39:36.000 --> 01:39:39.000
What else do I need to know about

1929
01:39:39.000 --> 01:39:42.000
the possibility of an ancient civilization

1930
01:39:42.000 --> 01:39:45.000
that might inform how I think about myself, my life,

1931
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:47.000
and I guess also our future?

1932
01:39:47.000 --> 01:39:48.000
What I found so fascinating is,

1933
01:39:48.000 --> 01:39:51.000
especially we're in a moment of this AI revolution,

1934
01:39:51.000 --> 01:39:52.000
where you've got these sort of big forces

1935
01:39:52.000 --> 01:39:54.000
if you've got nuclear weapons over here,

1936
01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:55.000
you've now got this advanced intelligence.

1937
01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:57.000
There's humanoid robots on the horizon.

1938
01:39:57.000 --> 01:40:01.000
And if there was ever a moment where the word existential

1939
01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:04.000
is being used in a way that is probably appropriate,

1940
01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:06.000
for me it feels like now.

1941
01:40:06.000 --> 01:40:08.000
Yeah, it feels like now to me too.

1942
01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:15.000
This is no doubt our species is poised on the edge of an abyss right now.

1943
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:19.000
Our technology has outgrown our mentality,

1944
01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:25.000
and we're not in good shape to deal with the challenges that lie ahead.

1945
01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:30.000
Unfortunately, the chances of a nuclear exchanger just higher and higher.

1946
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:33.000
That's just a realistic assessment of the way the world is

1947
01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:35.000
with these maniacal leaders.

1948
01:40:35.000 --> 01:40:37.000
So what could we learn from the past?

1949
01:40:37.000 --> 01:40:40.000
I believe we can learn that there's another way to live

1950
01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:42.000
that we don't have to do it this way.

1951
01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:43.000
You can't even know.

1952
01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:45.000
That's something I believe.

1953
01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:46.000
I can't believe.

1954
01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:48.000
That's something I don't know.

1955
01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:53.000
I guess I'm optimistic that human beings have made it through.

1956
01:40:53.000 --> 01:40:57.000
All these centuries, all these thousands of years,

1957
01:40:57.000 --> 01:40:59.000
all these hundreds of thousands of years,

1958
01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:02.000
that we've made it through, we've made terrible mistakes,

1959
01:41:02.000 --> 01:41:03.000
terrible thing.

1960
01:41:03.000 --> 01:41:05.000
I mean, look at the Second World War.

1961
01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:07.000
God knows how many people were killed there?

1962
01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:09.000
I mean, 20 million Russians alone, if I remember correctly.

1963
01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:12.000
It was just horrific, absolute horror.

1964
01:41:12.000 --> 01:41:15.000
When I was born in 1950,

1965
01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:18.000
the Second World War was only five years away.

1966
01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:20.000
And at the end of the end, it hung over us.

1967
01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:22.000
Our generation were aware of that.

1968
01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:26.000
But it seems to me people today aren't aware of the horror of global war

1969
01:41:26.000 --> 01:41:28.000
in the way that they were.

1970
01:41:28.000 --> 01:41:35.000
And that adds to the danger that we will emulate ourselves.

1971
01:41:35.000 --> 01:41:39.000
I think a new approach to the nature of reality is really vital.

1972
01:41:39.000 --> 01:41:43.000
I think we need to begin to understand consciousness better.

1973
01:41:44.000 --> 01:41:48.000
And what I would wish for the human species

1974
01:41:48.000 --> 01:41:51.000
is that we understand we are actually all one.

1975
01:41:51.000 --> 01:41:54.000
Incredibly diverse.

1976
01:41:54.000 --> 01:41:57.000
Full of creativity and differences, but all one.

1977
01:41:57.000 --> 01:42:01.000
And a mother in the middle of Sub-Saharan Africa

1978
01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:03.000
and a mother in New York City,

1979
01:42:03.000 --> 01:42:06.000
they love their kids in exactly the same way.

1980
01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:08.000
They hope for their kids in exactly the same way.

1981
01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:11.000
There's no difference between them at all.

1982
01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:17.000
As long as we're indoctrinated into this notion of divisive differences,

1983
01:42:17.000 --> 01:42:21.000
I'm all in favor of differences between human beings.

1984
01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:26.000
That's part of our creativity as our species, but divisive differences.

1985
01:42:26.000 --> 01:42:28.000
That's what's going to kill us off.

1986
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:32.000
And that's, I think, the message that comes down from the past,

1987
01:42:32.000 --> 01:42:34.000
whether it's a correct message or not,

1988
01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:38.000
is we, a former civilization,

1989
01:42:38.000 --> 01:42:41.000
made a terrible mistake,

1990
01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:46.000
and it resulted in a cataclysm that brought us down.

1991
01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:49.000
I think we need to realize that can happen again,

1992
01:42:49.000 --> 01:42:54.000
and that we are most likely to be the cause of that cataclysm ourselves.

1993
01:42:54.000 --> 01:42:58.000
There may be a danger of further comet impacts,

1994
01:42:58.000 --> 01:43:01.000
the Younger Dryas comet fragments.

1995
01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:03.000
It's called the Torrid Meteor Stream.

1996
01:43:03.000 --> 01:43:06.000
The Earth passes through it twice a year,

1997
01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:09.000
in June and in October, November.

1998
01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:13.000
There are hundreds of deadly objects in the Torrid Meteor Stream.

1999
01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:16.000
It could happen, but I think a much more likely way

2000
01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:22.000
that we're going to bring our civilization back almost to the Stone Age

2001
01:43:22.000 --> 01:43:25.000
is nuclear war.

2002
01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:27.000
We're going to do it to ourselves.

2003
01:43:27.000 --> 01:43:29.000
Unless we wake up,

2004
01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:33.000
unless we become more conscious of what it is to be a human being,

2005
01:43:33.000 --> 01:43:36.000
of the privilege and the gift of being a human being,

2006
01:43:36.000 --> 01:43:39.000
and how that privilege of gift belongs to every human being,

2007
01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:42.000
not just to us.

2008
01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:44.000
But I don't know how that's going to be done.

2009
01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:47.000
I do think psychedelics can play a role.

2010
01:43:47.000 --> 01:43:49.000
I've said many times, and I'll say it again,

2011
01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:52.000
if I had the power to do so,

2012
01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:56.000
I would insist that every world leader has at least,

2013
01:43:56.000 --> 01:43:59.000
at least a dozen sessions of Ayahuasca

2014
01:43:59.000 --> 01:44:02.000
before they even apply for the job.

2015
01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:05.000
Because you believe that would give them the same feeling of oneness?

2016
01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:07.000
I think most of them wouldn't apply for the job at all.

2017
01:44:07.000 --> 01:44:08.000
Oh, really?

2018
01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:12.000
And those who did would probably do a much better job.

2019
01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:15.000
Because they'd understand themselves better.

2020
01:44:15.000 --> 01:44:18.000
Graham, what is the most important thing we haven't discussed

2021
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:21.000
as it relates to our past,

2022
01:44:21.000 --> 01:44:23.000
and what it might teach us,

2023
01:44:23.000 --> 01:44:26.000
how we choose to live our lives today,

2024
01:44:26.000 --> 01:44:28.000
that we haven't discussed?

2025
01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:30.000
Look, the most important thing as far as I'm concerned

2026
01:44:30.000 --> 01:44:32.000
is independent inquiry.

2027
01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:34.000
We need to start thinking for ourselves,

2028
01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:36.000
and that's true of the past,

2029
01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:38.000
and it's true of everything else.

2030
01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:43.000
To the extent that I do get positive feedback from young people,

2031
01:44:43.000 --> 01:44:45.000
and I do a lot,

2032
01:44:45.000 --> 01:44:47.000
that feedback is,

2033
01:44:47.000 --> 01:44:51.000
thank you for being an example to question everything.

2034
01:44:51.000 --> 01:44:54.000
It happens that what I'm questioning is the past,

2035
01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:59.000
but that can be a model for questioning everything.

2036
01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:04.000
I feel that very poor journalism

2037
01:45:04.000 --> 01:45:08.000
being used to smear my name

2038
01:45:08.000 --> 01:45:10.000
because I asked questions,

2039
01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:12.000
and because I asked them vigorously,

2040
01:45:12.000 --> 01:45:14.000
and because most important of all,

2041
01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:16.000
I reached a large audience.

2042
01:45:16.000 --> 01:45:18.000
That's it, really.

2043
01:45:18.000 --> 01:45:21.000
They want to smear your name if you don't reach a large audience.

2044
01:45:21.000 --> 01:45:23.000
You're not worth their trouble.

2045
01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:24.000
I know the feeling.

2046
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:25.000
But I think you do.

2047
01:45:25.000 --> 01:45:28.000
For me, my thing has always been that

2048
01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:30.000
all that's done has made me clearer.

2049
01:45:30.000 --> 01:45:32.000
You have a bigger platform for more people,

2050
01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:34.000
watching you, et cetera, and talking about you.

2051
01:45:34.000 --> 01:45:38.000
All that's done for me is made me clearer on my principles

2052
01:45:38.000 --> 01:45:39.000
and what I believe,

2053
01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:41.000
and I'm actually really thankful for that in a weird way,

2054
01:45:41.000 --> 01:45:43.000
because you're forced to,

2055
01:45:43.000 --> 01:45:45.000
when you hear so many things said about you,

2056
01:45:45.000 --> 01:45:48.000
it does focus one mind on who am I,

2057
01:45:48.000 --> 01:45:49.000
and what matters.

2058
01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:52.000
Where am I uncompromising in terms of the conversations

2059
01:45:52.000 --> 01:45:54.000
I want to have, the way I want to do it,

2060
01:45:54.000 --> 01:45:56.000
and that's given me a huge amount of clarity,

2061
01:45:56.000 --> 01:45:59.000
and one of the things that I really want to make sure

2062
01:45:59.000 --> 01:46:03.000
is that it doesn't make me bitter or resentful in any way.

2063
01:46:03.000 --> 01:46:04.000
Very important.

2064
01:46:04.000 --> 01:46:06.000
And you can see how it happens.

2065
01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:08.000
I can absolutely see how it happens.

2066
01:46:08.000 --> 01:46:11.000
You have to live with this injustice potentially,

2067
01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:13.000
or being mischaracterized,

2068
01:46:13.000 --> 01:46:16.000
or whatever, so it's easy to see how one can slip off

2069
01:46:16.000 --> 01:46:18.000
into bitterness and resent and to.

2070
01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:20.000
That's a big part of the work I'm doing on myself

2071
01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:21.000
at the moment.

2072
01:46:21.000 --> 01:46:25.000
I'm confident that I am doing the right thing with my life.

2073
01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:27.000
I'm doing no harm to anyone,

2074
01:46:27.000 --> 01:46:30.000
and I'm putting ideas out there that are worth thinking about.

2075
01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:31.000
I'm confident of that.

2076
01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:33.000
I have no doubts about that.

2077
01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:37.000
And what will you care about on your last day?

2078
01:46:37.000 --> 01:46:41.000
Most of all, the love of my family,

2079
01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:44.000
that's the most important thing to me.

2080
01:46:44.000 --> 01:46:46.000
And I don't know.

2081
01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:51.000
The feeling that I did my best.

2082
01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:56.000
I did the best I could to carry out the task

2083
01:46:56.000 --> 01:46:59.000
that fell upon me, quite by accident.

2084
01:46:59.000 --> 01:47:02.000
I was a current affairs journalist in the 1980s,

2085
01:47:02.000 --> 01:47:05.000
so I had no idea I was going to go down this rabbit hole

2086
01:47:05.000 --> 01:47:06.000
into the ancient world.

2087
01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:09.000
It was a series of accidents that led to it.

2088
01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:14.000
But having gone down it, I feel very, very, very committed to it.

2089
01:47:14.000 --> 01:47:16.000
It's interesting because one of the ways

2090
01:47:16.000 --> 01:47:18.000
that I've always chosen to conduct my interviews

2091
01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:20.000
is just to judge people as I find them.

2092
01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:22.000
I remember once upon a time I had Brian Johnson

2093
01:47:22.000 --> 01:47:23.000
coming on my podcast,

2094
01:47:23.000 --> 01:47:26.000
and he's quite a, he has some radical beliefs

2095
01:47:26.000 --> 01:47:27.000
about living forever, et cetera.

2096
01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:28.000
He's the longevity guy.

2097
01:47:28.000 --> 01:47:30.000
I remember one of my team members walking up to me

2098
01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:32.000
beforehand and saying, before he arrived

2099
01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:33.000
and saying, what'd you think of him?

2100
01:47:33.000 --> 01:47:34.000
And I remember saying, I have no idea.

2101
01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:35.000
I don't met him yet.

2102
01:47:35.000 --> 01:47:37.000
And then I sat down with him, had this interview,

2103
01:47:37.000 --> 01:47:39.000
and he said this thing to me at the end of the interview,

2104
01:47:39.000 --> 01:47:40.000
where he goes, thank you.

2105
01:47:40.000 --> 01:47:41.000
And I go, what do you mean?

2106
01:47:41.000 --> 01:47:42.000
He goes, thank you.

2107
01:47:42.000 --> 01:47:43.000
This is the first time I've done an interview in my life

2108
01:47:43.000 --> 01:47:45.000
where the interview had no preconceptions of me.

2109
01:47:45.000 --> 01:47:47.000
And he goes, it meant that I was relaxed

2110
01:47:47.000 --> 01:47:49.000
and able to be myself and blah, blah, blah.

2111
01:47:49.000 --> 01:47:53.000
And I say that because my opinion of you

2112
01:47:53.000 --> 01:47:57.000
is someone who is really curious about humanity

2113
01:47:57.000 --> 01:48:00.000
and has this interesting idea that is really expensive

2114
01:48:00.000 --> 01:48:02.000
for one's mind about what could have happened.

2115
01:48:02.000 --> 01:48:05.000
And I, again, the net benefit for me

2116
01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:09.000
of that is just expanding my mind in a way

2117
01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:12.000
that makes me empathetic to other people.

2118
01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:15.000
Makes me feel like me and you aren't different.

2119
01:48:15.000 --> 01:48:18.000
Like I've met you today, but we're probably, you know,

2120
01:48:18.000 --> 01:48:21.000
we go back a long way, maybe consciously we're the same.

2121
01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:23.000
But in our history and our lineage,

2122
01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:25.000
we are one of the same.

2123
01:48:25.000 --> 01:48:28.000
And it also gives me a huge amount of respect

2124
01:48:28.000 --> 01:48:33.000
for other living things, including my ancestors.

2125
01:48:34.000 --> 01:48:36.000
In a way that you kind of think of your ancestors

2126
01:48:36.000 --> 01:48:38.000
as these like monkeys that lived in trees potentially.

2127
01:48:38.000 --> 01:48:40.000
But actually hearing some of these stories makes me go,

2128
01:48:40.000 --> 01:48:42.000
oh my gosh, and actually it gives me a huge sense

2129
01:48:42.000 --> 01:48:45.000
of responsibility to leave this planet

2130
01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:48.000
and this earth in a way that it's going to be good for,

2131
01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:50.000
you know, the future, the future kids

2132
01:48:50.000 --> 01:48:52.000
that will live 20,000 years from now in the future

2133
01:48:52.000 --> 01:48:55.000
and that will probably look at all fossil records in wonder.

2134
01:48:55.000 --> 01:48:57.000
I think those of us who have a platform

2135
01:48:57.000 --> 01:49:01.000
do have a responsibility very, very deftly.

2136
01:49:01.000 --> 01:49:03.000
I mean, we're living in this strangely world.

2137
01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:08.000
This world was inconceivable even in the beginning of the 1990s.

2138
01:49:08.000 --> 01:49:11.000
This world of communication that we live in now.

2139
01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:17.000
And there's no doubt that this is where influence can be applied.

2140
01:49:17.000 --> 01:49:23.000
And if that influence is encouraging all that's good

2141
01:49:23.000 --> 01:49:25.000
in the human race, then that's really great.

2142
01:49:25.000 --> 01:49:27.000
That's a wonderful thing.

2143
01:49:27.000 --> 01:49:29.000
And if it's encouraging all that's dark and negative

2144
01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:32.000
and cruel and unkind and vicious in the human race,

2145
01:49:32.000 --> 01:49:34.000
because that's also out there on the internet,

2146
01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:36.000
then it's not so good.

2147
01:49:36.000 --> 01:49:39.000
Graham, we have a closing tradition on the show

2148
01:49:39.000 --> 01:49:41.000
where the last guest leaves the question for the next,

2149
01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:42.000
not knowing who they're leaving it for.

2150
01:49:42.000 --> 01:49:44.000
And the question left for you is,

2151
01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:46.000
is there a danger of us sleepwalking

2152
01:49:46.000 --> 01:49:50.000
into worshipping a machine god?

2153
01:49:50.000 --> 01:49:52.000
You want me to answer that question?

2154
01:49:52.000 --> 01:49:55.000
Yes, we're already worshipping a machine god.

2155
01:49:55.000 --> 01:49:58.000
As I said earlier in our discussion,

2156
01:49:58.000 --> 01:50:02.000
in the minds of many, science has already been elevated

2157
01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:07.000
to occupy the space that was once occupied by religions.

2158
01:50:07.000 --> 01:50:10.000
That is a belief in a machine fundamentally

2159
01:50:10.000 --> 01:50:12.000
that's taking place there.

2160
01:50:12.000 --> 01:50:15.000
Science should be seen as a tool, one amongst many tools

2161
01:50:15.000 --> 01:50:18.000
that we as human beings have at our disposal.

2162
01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:21.000
It should never be the only tool

2163
01:50:21.000 --> 01:50:23.000
and it should never be worshipped.

2164
01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:27.000
I don't ever want to hear the words, trust the science.

2165
01:50:28.000 --> 01:50:31.000
The words for me are, investigate the science.

2166
01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:34.000
See whether it's right for you or not.

2167
01:50:34.000 --> 01:50:37.000
See what else is available in the situation.

2168
01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:40.000
Don't just routinely without thought,

2169
01:50:40.000 --> 01:50:43.000
without question, trust the science, don't do that.

2170
01:50:43.000 --> 01:50:46.000
That's betraying science as well.

2171
01:50:46.000 --> 01:50:48.000
One of fundamental ethics of science

2172
01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:50.000
is not to trust the science.

2173
01:50:50.000 --> 01:50:53.000
It's to question and challenge the science.

2174
01:50:53.000 --> 01:50:55.000
That's what we should be doing with the science.

2175
01:50:55.000 --> 01:51:02.000
Yes, we are in danger of creating a kind of multi-dimensional machine

2176
01:51:02.000 --> 01:51:05.000
which reaches into all aspects of human consciousness

2177
01:51:05.000 --> 01:51:08.000
and controls us.

2178
01:51:08.000 --> 01:51:10.000
We've got to stop worshipping science.

2179
01:51:10.000 --> 01:51:12.000
That's for sure.

2180
01:51:12.000 --> 01:51:14.000
We've got to put it in its rightful place

2181
01:51:14.000 --> 01:51:16.000
as an incredibly valuable tool

2182
01:51:16.000 --> 01:51:19.000
which can do great things for human beings

2183
01:51:19.000 --> 01:51:22.000
but which can also do terrible harm and damage.

2184
01:51:22.000 --> 01:51:26.000
When we trust science, there's something we stop listening to.

2185
01:51:26.000 --> 01:51:28.000
When you put your trust in anything,

2186
01:51:28.000 --> 01:51:31.000
you better have good reason to put your trust in it.

2187
01:51:31.000 --> 01:51:36.000
If I'm going to trust another human being with my life,

2188
01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:38.000
I really want to know that I can trust that person.

2189
01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:40.000
I'm not just going to say,

2190
01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:42.000
you're a doctor so I trust you.

2191
01:51:42.000 --> 01:51:43.000
That's not enough.

2192
01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:46.000
I want to know more about that doctor

2193
01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:50.000
and indeed I have pursued that just recently.

2194
01:51:50.000 --> 01:51:52.000
Science is great, science is really useful

2195
01:51:52.000 --> 01:51:56.000
but we're not being what we should be.

2196
01:51:56.000 --> 01:52:00.000
We're not living up to the potential that the universe gave us

2197
01:52:00.000 --> 01:52:03.000
if we just go around trusting everything all the time.

2198
01:52:03.000 --> 01:52:05.000
We're here to ask questions.

2199
01:52:05.000 --> 01:52:07.000
That's what we've got these enormous brains for

2200
01:52:07.000 --> 01:52:09.000
and this incredible connectivity

2201
01:52:09.000 --> 01:52:11.000
is to ask questions.

2202
01:52:11.000 --> 01:52:13.000
Anybody who says don't ask questions

2203
01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:15.000
is doing a great deal of harm.

2204
01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:17.000
Well, I hope my audience are very curious

2205
01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:19.000
and I think they must be by now

2206
01:52:19.000 --> 01:52:21.000
if they're still hanging around on this platform

2207
01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:23.000
because we've had lots of very curious conversations

2208
01:52:23.000 --> 01:52:25.000
and hopefully expansive.

2209
01:52:25.000 --> 01:52:27.000
We have the saccharin and DOAC,

2210
01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:28.000
obviously stands for dioreceo,

2211
01:52:28.000 --> 01:52:31.000
but also we think of it as like being for dreamers

2212
01:52:31.000 --> 01:52:32.000
and open-minded people,

2213
01:52:32.000 --> 01:52:34.000
which is the A being about expanding awareness

2214
01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:36.000
and the C really being about feeling more connected.

2215
01:52:36.000 --> 01:52:37.000
Really?

2216
01:52:37.000 --> 01:52:39.000
Like hearing your story and about you partner

2217
01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:41.000
and your journey and your parents

2218
01:52:41.000 --> 01:52:43.000
makes me all, you know, I think it makes us

2219
01:52:43.000 --> 01:52:45.000
like spiritually connected in a way

2220
01:52:45.000 --> 01:52:47.000
that's increasingly rare.

2221
01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:49.000
If people want to learn and read more

2222
01:52:49.000 --> 01:52:51.000
from you, Graham, why do they go?

2223
01:52:51.000 --> 01:52:53.000
I mean, you've written so many wonderful books,

2224
01:52:53.000 --> 01:52:55.000
you've got another one on the way.

2225
01:52:55.000 --> 01:52:57.000
I'll link all of these books you've written

2226
01:52:57.000 --> 01:52:59.000
and the others that aren't here below.

2227
01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:01.000
Okay, very briefly,

2228
01:53:01.000 --> 01:53:03.000
the book that put me on the map

2229
01:53:03.000 --> 01:53:05.000
was fingerprints of the gods.

2230
01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:07.000
And that's the book where I really investigate,

2231
01:53:07.000 --> 01:53:10.000
begin to investigate the possibility of a lost civilization.

2232
01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:12.000
Before that came the sign of the seal,

2233
01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:16.000
which was about Ethiopia's claim to possess

2234
01:53:16.000 --> 01:53:18.000
the lost Ark of the Covenant.

2235
01:53:18.000 --> 01:53:20.000
It happened that as a reporter in the 1980s

2236
01:53:20.000 --> 01:53:22.000
I spent a lot of time in Ethiopia

2237
01:53:22.000 --> 01:53:24.000
and I came across this tradition,

2238
01:53:24.000 --> 01:53:26.000
which is fundamental to

2239
01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:28.000
all religious life in Ethiopia

2240
01:53:28.000 --> 01:53:31.000
and ended up writing a book about it.

2241
01:53:31.000 --> 01:53:34.000
That put me on the track of a lost civilization

2242
01:53:34.000 --> 01:53:36.000
led to fingerprints of the gods.

2243
01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:38.000
Then after fingerprints of the gods

2244
01:53:38.000 --> 01:53:40.000
there's a book that's not here,

2245
01:53:40.000 --> 01:53:42.000
a paper of Genesis that I wrote with Robert Boval.

2246
01:53:42.000 --> 01:53:44.000
Underworld.

2247
01:53:44.000 --> 01:53:46.000
This was seven years of scuba diving

2248
01:53:46.000 --> 01:53:48.000
that Santa and I did all around the world.

2249
01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:50.000
Following up tips from

2250
01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:52.000
local fishermen, local divers,

2251
01:53:52.000 --> 01:53:54.000
they'd seen something interesting,

2252
01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:56.000
something that looked man-made

2253
01:53:56.000 --> 01:53:58.000
at a depth of 30 meters just off shore there

2254
01:53:58.000 --> 01:54:00.000
and they would take us and we would find it.

2255
01:54:00.000 --> 01:54:04.000
So underworld is about all those flooded continental shelves.

2256
01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:08.000
27 million square kilometers of continental shelf

2257
01:54:08.000 --> 01:54:10.000
were flooded at the end of the ice age.

2258
01:54:10.000 --> 01:54:12.000
That's 27 million square kilometers.

2259
01:54:12.000 --> 01:54:14.000
That's Europe and China,

2260
01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:16.000
a bit more combined

2261
01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:18.000
where the best real estate on earth

2262
01:54:18.000 --> 01:54:20.000
20,000 years ago

2263
01:54:20.000 --> 01:54:22.000
and are all underwater today.

2264
01:54:22.000 --> 01:54:24.000
And there's signs that there was life there?

2265
01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:26.000
Oh yeah, absolutely.

2266
01:54:26.000 --> 01:54:28.000
Civilizations there.

2267
01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:30.000
Well, we found very large stretches underwater.

2268
01:54:30.000 --> 01:54:32.000
So that's underworld.

2269
01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:34.000
Then after Underworld I wrote

2270
01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:36.000
supernatural, which is that one there,

2271
01:54:36.000 --> 01:54:38.000
which has been reissued in America

2272
01:54:38.000 --> 01:54:40.000
under the title Visionary.

2273
01:54:40.000 --> 01:54:42.000
And that's where I went deep into

2274
01:54:42.000 --> 01:54:44.000
the shamanistic medicines,

2275
01:54:44.000 --> 01:54:46.000
the ayahuasca,

2276
01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:48.000
psilocybin,

2277
01:54:48.000 --> 01:54:52.000
and the whole notion that cave art,

2278
01:54:52.000 --> 01:54:54.000
the art that we see in the painted caves,

2279
01:54:54.000 --> 01:54:58.000
is an art of visions.

2280
01:54:58.000 --> 01:55:00.000
That this is shaman's

2281
01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:02.000
who had entered deeply altered states of consciousness.

2282
01:55:02.000 --> 01:55:04.000
They'd remembered what they'd seen

2283
01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:06.000
and when they came back

2284
01:55:06.000 --> 01:55:08.000
to the everyday state of consciousness,

2285
01:55:08.000 --> 01:55:10.000
they painted their visions in caves.

2286
01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:12.000
It's the best explanation for cave arts

2287
01:55:12.000 --> 01:55:14.000
and why cave art is so similar all around the world.

2288
01:55:14.000 --> 01:55:16.000
And so similar to the visions

2289
01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:18.000
of ayahuasca shaman's to this day.

2290
01:55:18.000 --> 01:55:20.000
Graham, thank you so much for all that you do.

2291
01:55:20.000 --> 01:55:22.000
I won't repeat every all the reasons why,

2292
01:55:22.000 --> 01:55:24.000
but you've blown my mind open in a way

2293
01:55:24.000 --> 01:55:26.000
that's just driven curiosity.

2294
01:55:26.000 --> 01:55:28.000
And I think that's maybe

2295
01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:30.000
the start of all inquiries deep curiosity

2296
01:55:30.000 --> 01:55:32.000
and that's what you've done for not just myself,

2297
01:55:32.000 --> 01:55:34.000
but you over the years,

2298
01:55:34.000 --> 01:55:36.000
all over the world.

2299
01:55:36.000 --> 01:55:38.000
And I hope long may it continue

2300
01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:40.000
and good luck with your heart operation

2301
01:55:40.000 --> 01:55:42.000
and hopefully we'll be back again to continue

2302
01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:44.000
this conversation soon.

2303
01:55:44.000 --> 01:55:46.000
Absolutely. Thank you very much.

2304
01:55:46.000 --> 01:55:48.000
Thank you so much.

2305
01:55:48.000 --> 01:55:50.000
Thank you so much.

2306
01:55:50.000 --> 01:55:52.000
Thank you so much.

2307
01:55:52.000 --> 01:55:54.000
Brilliant.

2308
01:56:02.000 --> 01:56:04.000
You