WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.400 Hello and welcome back to the way UK podcast. I'm Izzy and I am one of your hosts and I'm joined with another host 2 00:00:06.920 --> 00:00:11.120 Solomon, I am the other host. He's the northern host. Yes. Yeah, yeah 3 00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:15.200 And we always have a special guest for us today. Sarah Yardley 4 00:00:17.200 --> 00:00:22.400 Now if you've watched these podcasts for a while you may recognize her as you've done a testimony video with us before 5 00:00:22.400 --> 00:00:25.400 Where you spoke a bit about your journey and singleness and all that good stuff 6 00:00:25.400 --> 00:00:31.960 But today we're going to be focusing in a bit more of you and your leadership journey and talking about the topic of women in leadership 7 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:35.800 I am thrilled to be back and I'm feeling very comfy on these gorgeous orange catches 8 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:41.000 So good. But before we jump in one quick request if you're watching on YouTube 9 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:44.680 Please can you give a like and a subscribe and if it's on Spotify Apple 10 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:51.960 Just give it a little rating give us a five stars because our mission is to bring the good news of Jesus to every young person online 11 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:54.280 And when you interact in that way, it just makes it more possible 12 00:00:54.680 --> 00:00:57.080 So yeah, let's jump into it 13 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:03.240 So Sarah welcome 14 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.240 As he said already you have had a testimony video here with us before 15 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:11.320 But as a quick summary you grew up in California 16 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:16.760 And I came to the UK you led a Christian summer festival called creation first down in Cornwall 17 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:21.160 And now you lead a church has a lot of different gatherings across skill foods 18 00:01:21.320 --> 00:01:23.320 Other shot and working 19 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:28.520 Called Emma's Road so I would love you to tell us a bit about your journey of comments of that 20 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:30.280 Absolutely 21 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:33.880 Really fun my last video I talked a lot about being a single woman in leadership 22 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.000 Today we're really going to focus on being a woman in leadership 23 00:01:37.960 --> 00:01:45.080 And I think what's amazing about this moment is if you were told a little four-year-old Sarah that she'd ever be sitting on this couch as the senior leader of a church 24 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:47.480 I would have said absolutely not 25 00:01:47.800 --> 00:01:51.000 My biggest dream as a child is that someday I might be a librarian 26 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:54.200 I think I'd watch like a decent amount of Disney films 27 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:55.800 So I thought beauty in the beast vibe 28 00:01:55.800 --> 00:01:56.760 Yeah great 29 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:00.680 That could be my my whole vibe that was all that I was interested in 30 00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:05.720 And I grew up in a church in Orange County, California that was just a heartbeat of revival 31 00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:10.920 We saw renewal in a way that I had never experienced in any part of my life before 32 00:02:11.320 --> 00:02:14.280 And that is still remarkable to this day so my church movement 33 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:17.240 And film called Jesus Revolution that tells that story 34 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:19.800 We saw thousands come to Christ 35 00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:23.720 1500 churches planted all around the world 36 00:02:24.440 --> 00:02:28.280 And literally I just thought it was normal to go to church with your 10,000 best friends 37 00:02:28.920 --> 00:02:32.120 I mean like in my childhood our church bought a castle 38 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:34.680 And then another one 39 00:02:34.920 --> 00:02:41.320 Well Austria what in Hungary so it was just this wild moment of kind of the favor of God being poured out 40 00:02:41.880 --> 00:02:45.400 And our movement was really distinctly marked by a deep love for scripture 41 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:49.480 And so in my younger years I actually didn't even realize 42 00:02:50.040 --> 00:02:55.000 That there was a quite limited role for women in leadership because I didn't know any other world 43 00:02:55.720 --> 00:02:59.000 The way I've sometimes told this story is if you're a fish 44 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:01.800 You don't understand the concept of flying 45 00:03:02.200 --> 00:03:04.200 You're like I'm really happy swimming 46 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.960 But there's a different kind of story that isn't even within your frame of reference 47 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:10.360 So in my church movement growing up 48 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:12.360 And it's not that women were demeaned in any way 49 00:03:12.440 --> 00:03:14.760 There were just quite limited roles available to them 50 00:03:15.320 --> 00:03:17.080 Women could teach Sunday school 51 00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:19.320 Women could teach women's ministry 52 00:03:19.480 --> 00:03:22.360 Women could serve on prayer teams and hospitality teams 53 00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:26.840 But women didn't operate in any public or vocal way 54 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:29.400 Other than in worship during the services 55 00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:31.480 So women didn't host the services 56 00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:33.000 Women definitely didn't preach 57 00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:35.960 And then in my particular church context growing up 58 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:37.160 Women didn't usher 59 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:39.960 And they didn't walk people into the services 60 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:41.960 That's why we were saying you had to welcome them 61 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.520 And they exactly that they didn't even greet at the doors 62 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:48.920 So there were areas that were quite clearly male oriented or male driven 63 00:03:49.480 --> 00:03:51.560 And again in my younger years of ministry 64 00:03:51.640 --> 00:03:54.360 This wasn't like this angsty tension point 65 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:58.680 I was celebrated and cheered into as many roles as were possible 66 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:01.560 And in my 20s 67 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.720 I was made the leader of one of our leadership departments 68 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:08.920 And so the pastor of my church at that time 69 00:04:08.920 --> 00:04:10.840 Who is absolutely iconic 70 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.360 He's since living in heaven and not with us any longer 71 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:16.200 But he just said to me Sarah 72 00:04:16.200 --> 00:04:19.400 I see such a calling that God has over your life 73 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:22.920 And he put me in charge of a department overseeing 30 individuals 74 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:24.680 And seven million dollars of business 75 00:04:25.080 --> 00:04:29.160 So my role within that organization was fairly significant, fairly strategic 76 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:32.200 Now fast forward to 2014 77 00:04:32.840 --> 00:04:34.120 I'm 30 years old 78 00:04:34.760 --> 00:04:38.040 My heart is being expanded for the next generation 79 00:04:38.840 --> 00:04:43.400 For the world and for saying yes to anything Jesus invites me to 80 00:04:43.880 --> 00:04:50.120 And the invitation was will you say yes to moving to the grand and glorious country 81 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:51.880 I have drum roll please 82 00:04:51.880 --> 00:04:53.880 England 83 00:04:53.880 --> 00:04:55.400 The holy place of God 84 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:58.920 And not only England God called me to Cornwall 85 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:02.520 Now within my first yeah what a great place 86 00:05:03.080 --> 00:05:05.640 For those who may not know where Cornwall is how would you describe it 87 00:05:05.640 --> 00:05:08.360 If my hand was the UK Cornwall is the thumb 88 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:12.760 And it is the place in which the sea meets the land 89 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:15.480 What time was filmed there 90 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:17.960 It's wild and mystical and 91 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:19.880 It's like a Disney movie 92 00:05:19.880 --> 00:05:21.400 There's loads going on there 93 00:05:21.400 --> 00:05:23.400 Turned out loads going on there 94 00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:24.120 The surf 95 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:24.600 The sea 96 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:25.000 The sea 97 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:25.560 The food 98 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:27.160 Can you tell that I loved it there 99 00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:31.080 Makes it sound like that was an 100 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:33.080 Magical fairy tale 101 00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:38.680 As is always true in our stories with Jesus it became magical but at the beginning was actually quite hard and painful 102 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:41.320 Move to this part of the UK 103 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.560 Where there was no limit on gender roles in ministry 104 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.040 So 2014 I'm 30 years old 105 00:05:48.520 --> 00:05:52.520 I'm probably the best thoughts biblical leader in my area 106 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.520 I know how to speak and communicate because I've spent the last 10 years working with young people 107 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.880 And if you know how to teach a group of hyper-orange county teenagers 108 00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:03.880 My goodness you can hold a crowd anywhere 109 00:06:04.840 --> 00:06:08.360 And I'm passionate about seeing people meet Christ 110 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:11.000 And so within my first week of arrival 111 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:13.960 Church leaders are coming to me and saying Sarah 112 00:06:13.960 --> 00:06:16.120 Will you come and preach at our churches 113 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:19.000 Now this breaks my box in every way 114 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:24.840 Because in my experience that invitation would have never come to a woman in leadership 115 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:27.000 It would only come to a man 116 00:06:27.880 --> 00:06:32.920 And so I began to call a few of my spiritual mentors and leaders and I said hey my box is getting broken 117 00:06:33.400 --> 00:06:36.920 I'm here in the UK. It's a 1% Christian landscape 118 00:06:37.640 --> 00:06:43.720 I'm being invited to come and preach the gospel. I feel my heart burning to preach the gospel. What do I do 119 00:06:44.520 --> 00:06:48.680 And at that point in time and I say this really carefully but really clearly 120 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:52.280 Six of the men in my life 121 00:06:53.080 --> 00:06:57.240 Took time to process with me is this God's calling over me 122 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:01.000 And at that point in time it was a grace that it was six men 123 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:03.640 Because I was still in a framework that said 124 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:06.360 Men are the spiritual leaders 125 00:07:06.440 --> 00:07:13.240 Women sit under that and so in the kindness of Jesus he put these six men in my life to help me navigate 126 00:07:13.640 --> 00:07:18.680 The question of is there a call in my life to preach and one of them said see a call in your life to preach 127 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.760 Here's the theology here's the scriptural reference that'll help you do this 128 00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:25.080 Once that I see a call in your life to preach 129 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:30.680 Here's how this is going to hit your heart emotionally. I want to be like a brother to you in this process 130 00:07:31.400 --> 00:07:33.400 One said I see the call in your life to preach 131 00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:37.320 I'm just going to be your biggest cheerleader. I'm going to roar you 132 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:40.440 They all took a different role within my preaching journey 133 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:42.920 And so I reached this point 134 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:47.960 2014 where I began to accept the invitations to go out and preach 135 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:53.240 And because it was costly to me to preach remember my background 136 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:58.520 The journey that God brought me on not all of my friends or family went with me on at the same time 137 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:02.280 Yeah, because it was costly every message I preached 138 00:08:02.840 --> 00:08:04.840 Was original content 139 00:08:04.840 --> 00:08:08.040 That first year I preached 65 times 140 00:08:09.400 --> 00:08:12.600 Now if you do the math quickly that is absolutely more than once per week 141 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.520 I do not recommend to anyone to preach 65 times in a year 142 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:20.520 And the Holy Spirit said to me there's going to be a call in your life 143 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.840 But in place the railroad tracks for that call 144 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:27.240 And here's what I mean by that 145 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:29.400 Sometimes we don't know where God is going to take us 146 00:08:29.400 --> 00:08:32.600 I'm still at this point a 30-year-old California girl 147 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:35.480 Living in a remote little town in the middle of nowhere 148 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:40.040 Very often preaching my heart out to 12 people in a Methodist local chapel 149 00:08:40.040 --> 00:08:42.040 This is not a glamorous moment 150 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:44.920 I recognized I needed some theological 151 00:08:44.920 --> 00:08:48.840 Undergirding some railroad tracks for the place where I was going to go 152 00:08:49.560 --> 00:08:55.480 And so I went first to Saint Melitis where I got my bachelor's degree in theology big up 153 00:08:55.560 --> 00:09:02.040 And second to Western seminary where I received a master's degree in biblical theology ministry and mission 154 00:09:02.680 --> 00:09:05.640 And in both of those two places separate from the female leadership call 155 00:09:06.680 --> 00:09:08.680 phenomenally generous individuals 156 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:12.920 Quietly paid for my whole theological education 157 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:18.680 People were moved on God's heart to cover the cost of a not small amount of education 158 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:24.280 And over a 10-year process I had a full preparation for leadership 159 00:09:25.160 --> 00:09:26.840 But at this point in time 160 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:29.240 I'm still the girl who loves the next generation 161 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:33.480 believes there's a place of giving godly invitations and is like 162 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.760 I'll say yes to whatever Jesus has for me 163 00:09:36.760 --> 00:09:38.920 And I'm going to draw to an end of my bio in a moment here 164 00:09:38.920 --> 00:09:40.120 I know I've been brain dumping 165 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.440 The Holy Spirit says 10 years you've been leading this charity 166 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:46.680 10 years you've been learning how to preach 167 00:09:47.800 --> 00:09:49.960 Give away everything in your life 168 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:52.840 And wait on me for the next chapter 169 00:09:54.040 --> 00:09:58.600 So I give away everything I shave my head as a prophetic image 170 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.240 And I wait on the Lord 171 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:04.040 And a door opens for a church 172 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.560 To have an invitation for a pastor or a leader 173 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.240 I applied for that role thinking at that point in time 174 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.640 I was still going to work under a phenomenal pastor and leader named Pete Greg 175 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.440 Founder of the 24-7 prayer movement 176 00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:22.360 One who has guided the hearts of many into the presence of Jesus 177 00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:26.440 I took a job working for two days a week as there had of evangelism 178 00:10:27.160 --> 00:10:31.240 And four months into my time at that church in Surrey that leader said to me 179 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:33.720 We're moving on 180 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:36.520 We feel the call of God to be a prophetic voice to the nations 181 00:10:37.160 --> 00:10:39.560 Would you come and lead our church family 182 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:41.560 And at this point in time 183 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:44.760 42 years into my journey 184 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:48.520 I had no idea that God was calling me to be the lead pastor 185 00:10:49.160 --> 00:10:52.920 of three churches in a place of significant 186 00:10:52.920 --> 00:10:55.480 Influence profile and opportunity 187 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:59.080 All that I knew was the whole way through my life 188 00:10:59.640 --> 00:11:01.720 I had just said yes to Jesus 189 00:11:02.520 --> 00:11:06.040 Love the next generation and given good invitations 190 00:11:06.040 --> 00:11:08.440 And so now I sit as a single woman 191 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.440 Who's the female leader of a fairly significant church in the UK 192 00:11:13.160 --> 00:11:15.080 Dedicated to those things my whole way through 193 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:17.960 There's my life story in a nutshell 194 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:19.080 Yes, pretty amazing 195 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:25.240 How would you say like through all of that 196 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.920 How did you find like your voice in that because I guess 197 00:11:29.640 --> 00:11:31.160 Where you grew up and 198 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:38.440 Where you were almost trained and in ministry is it is a different context or to certain children or women to then 199 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:43.240 Finding a voice that actually isn't just a children and women and and wider than you ever like imagined 200 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:48.440 How did you yeah, how did you find your voice in that such a great question and I could talk at length about that 201 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:54.600 But I'll say two things I think finding your voice starts with knowing your own identity 202 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:58.520 Knowing you are a beloved son or daughter of God that your 203 00:11:58.920 --> 00:12:03.560 Identity isn't defined by anything other than your belovedness to the Father 204 00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:07.320 And so finding our own voice comes when our relationship with 205 00:12:07.800 --> 00:12:13.960 Anything ministry calling work isn't defined by our success our public profile 206 00:12:14.280 --> 00:12:18.280 How good we look what other people say about us. It comes when we just know 207 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:21.880 I'm loved 208 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:28.120 But the second way I found my voice just to make this really succinct is I stayed relentlessly curious 209 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:33.720 I am like a little peddler who goes around and collects a gold everywhere I go 210 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:39.320 So if you ask me how do you preach or how do you lead either one of those two questions? I hope I would say 211 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.280 In the name of Jesus I lead like Sarah Yardley 212 00:12:42.920 --> 00:12:49.880 But I would also say oh I lead longing for the intellectual authority of John Tyson 213 00:12:50.760 --> 00:12:55.000 I lead lead looking for the fiery power of Christine Kane 214 00:12:55.800 --> 00:12:59.160 I lead hoping for the heart authenticity of Henry now in 215 00:12:59.880 --> 00:13:03.400 I lead with the relentless sacrificial love of Amy Carmichael 216 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:11.080 I lead curious everywhere I go. Where's the gold that's glinting in the leaders who are around me? 217 00:13:11.400 --> 00:13:14.760 And what can I learn from them about finding my own voice? 218 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.960 And then I take you to those things and I ask the Holy Spirit 219 00:13:18.520 --> 00:13:22.360 Is that what you are inviting me to lead like you see? 220 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.600 I don't want someone to turn on one of my videos or catch one of my bits and pieces and think oh 221 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:31.480 That sounds like Sarah Yardley is copying somebody else. Yeah. I want it to be like oh 222 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:39.320 She knows she's beloved by the Father and she's gleaned a little bit of gold from almost every leader 223 00:13:40.040 --> 00:13:44.120 Book podcast or video she's encountered. I'm as beautiful 224 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:47.080 I also think I find that very inspiring because it can be hard to know 225 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:53.960 Well, I feel like a calling is quite a big topic anyway, but like if you feel like you're being called into to speaking or called into ministry 226 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.360 How like finding who you are actually sometimes a lot of that is 227 00:13:58.680 --> 00:14:02.600 Inspiration from other people and bringing in the wisdom that they have to like 228 00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:09.560 Live out calling I guess. I mean, but also even you saying you felt God speak very clearly of like give up everything and go 229 00:14:09.560 --> 00:14:13.080 So how do you like how does that work? Like what happened? What's happening there? 230 00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:21.560 Yeah, I'll start with this the most important decision you will make is learning how to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit 231 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.640 I guess that impacts your voice as well then yeah absolutely 232 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:29.400 So we could go down a sidebar around calling a vocation all the rest out 233 00:14:29.400 --> 00:14:31.800 But the thing I would just say for those who might be listening here today 234 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:35.960 Learn how to hear the voice of God in your life 235 00:14:36.920 --> 00:14:39.640 And for some people that is a genuine and audible voice 236 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:47.720 For most of us that's the voice of God through scripture. So much of my calling has been defined by the places where I've been lingering in scripture 237 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:53.240 And God spoken to me through that in Cornwall my original calling was I was reading Isaiah 49 238 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:57.880 God's calling is to you from the coastlands from the body of your mother. He's named you by name 239 00:14:57.880 --> 00:15:01.800 He's called you to bring a light to the nations and bring salvation to the ends of the earth 240 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:04.440 It's a prophecy about who Christ is 241 00:15:04.520 --> 00:15:07.480 But I wrote in my Bible. God is this for me? Is this for Cornwall? 242 00:15:07.880 --> 00:15:11.640 And then someone came and prayed that exact passage of scripture over me 243 00:15:11.800 --> 00:15:15.080 God, we thank you for Sarah. We thank you that her calling is to the coastlands 244 00:15:15.880 --> 00:15:18.360 Thank you that from the body of her mother. You've named her by name 245 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.440 I then called my mum and said mom. I think God's calling me to Cornwall and she said oh 246 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.000 The Holy Spirit already told me 247 00:15:25.400 --> 00:15:29.720 I was just waiting moms. I was just waiting for you to hear it for yourself moms all three of us 248 00:15:29.800 --> 00:15:31.800 Brain moms 249 00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:39.320 I just have a question go a slight tangent. Yeah, just mentioning something that you that you said in your story of how you had this sort of community 250 00:15:39.400 --> 00:15:44.360 Almost sort of like friendship with people that sort of supported you and championed you and I guess I'm curious 251 00:15:44.680 --> 00:15:49.800 For the people maybe you don't have that or are looking for that. What a sort of advice. Would you give what sort of things? 252 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:54.520 Should you be looking for yeah, you know in like us in a strong spiritual community 253 00:15:55.080 --> 00:16:00.920 One of the things my dad always taught me is every room you walk into those are either your friends or your future friends 254 00:16:02.520 --> 00:16:04.520 Let's just take this morning 255 00:16:04.920 --> 00:16:10.520 Really nice like I walked into the studio here and what not everyone watching this is going to see is that there's a room full of 256 00:16:10.920 --> 00:16:16.920 Beautifully-talented interested individuals in the room behind us before we did anything here on the camera 257 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.920 We went and hung out with them for a little while and one of those guys 258 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.400 I got to introduce him to his wife. Wow peak friendship energy 259 00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:30.920 But the equally there's a group of younger woman and maybe we'll never cross paths again 260 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:36.120 But they'll remember oh that lady who came in and recorded with us looked us in the eyes said hello 261 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.520 Seemed to care about who we are as people 262 00:16:39.400 --> 00:16:42.600 Every room you walk into those are your friends or your future friends 263 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.600 In the sense of they are the beloved children of God 264 00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:52.200 Whole separate thing around being realistic about how much time and energy you can actually get to every human you meet 265 00:16:52.920 --> 00:16:57.160 Then the second thing I would say is stay relentlessly curious 266 00:16:57.800 --> 00:17:01.880 Whether I meet someone for five minutes or they're lifelong friends with me 267 00:17:02.520 --> 00:17:07.480 I want to be as open-hearted and attentive to that conversation as possible 268 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:13.160 So that group of six pastoral leaders. I could drop all of their names and they're extraordinary 269 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:15.720 They're still in my life to this day. Don't need to 270 00:17:16.600 --> 00:17:18.600 All that I need to say to you 271 00:17:18.600 --> 00:17:22.920 Is that these were significant leaders with a remit over their lives 272 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:29.160 Who's still because of the bond of friendship and relationship said oh if Sarah reaches out to us 273 00:17:29.560 --> 00:17:31.560 She'll be curious in her questions 274 00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:34.040 She'll be honest in her pursuit 275 00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:41.400 And she's also asking us because she understands and respects that there's a voice of God that's often heard through community 276 00:17:42.360 --> 00:17:46.280 And I actually think so much of my spiritual journey as a woman in leadership 277 00:17:46.760 --> 00:17:51.800 Has been shaped by extraordinary female friends. Yes, but extraordinary male friends. Yeah 278 00:17:52.120 --> 00:17:56.600 I'm so grateful for the men in my life who have treated me like a sister 279 00:17:57.080 --> 00:18:04.520 Who have loved me who have cheered me on and who have championed me and spoken over me the identity and the call of God 280 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:11.160 Those a few weeks ago where you were seeking to remember a woman I was there and you spoke about like 281 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:15.000 Friendships as well and I think that is really stuck with me and I would love for you to maybe 282 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:16.520 It's don't know if it's super linked 283 00:18:16.520 --> 00:18:20.840 But it's like you're all like different groups of friendships. Do you want to touch on yeah? Absolutely 284 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:23.240 So I'll just give a little shout out here 285 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:27.480 The best book I've run on friendship is a book called no greater love by Rebecca McLaughlin 286 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.960 Absolutely stunning and she talks about the fact that in Christian friendship 287 00:18:32.040 --> 00:18:35.160 They're most deeply formed when you're on mission with each other 288 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:38.280 That we're literally the friends who are running together 289 00:18:38.520 --> 00:18:41.240 We're binding up each other's wounds. We're having each other's backs 290 00:18:41.560 --> 00:18:43.560 But friendships are formed while on mission 291 00:18:44.040 --> 00:18:47.080 The categories I spoke about in that room which have been really helpful for me 292 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.200 Is the waterfall pool drain conversation? 293 00:18:50.840 --> 00:18:52.760 I can't even remember where I picked this up 294 00:18:52.760 --> 00:18:55.160 So if anyone finds the site for it to source for it 295 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:56.920 I picked it up somewhere along the way 296 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:03.400 But some friendships are like a waterfall. Is he is like a waterfall right like when you're with her 297 00:19:04.360 --> 00:19:05.560 Wow 298 00:19:05.560 --> 00:19:10.760 She blows in the joy of the spirit. I feel like our conversation could go any direction 299 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:13.880 We're going to just be refreshed in each other's presence 300 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:18.440 We are singing the love of Jesus over each other in our lives her life is a song 301 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:21.240 Now some friendships are a bit like a pool 302 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.520 And what that means is sometimes you've walked into a room and there might be 10 20 30 people there 303 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:28.680 And you're just like that was just a thing 304 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:30.200 Yeah 305 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:31.800 We did that we were there 306 00:19:31.800 --> 00:19:33.240 Some people were there just for the gram 307 00:19:34.040 --> 00:19:38.760 Like literally and I don't know that we've gone anywhere because of this friendship 308 00:19:38.840 --> 00:19:41.160 I'm actually quite careful about the pool friendships 309 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.960 Because my time is really limited 310 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:46.760 If we've just been in a room and it was just a thing 311 00:19:46.760 --> 00:19:49.320 It's probably not going to be the highest priority in my time 312 00:19:50.520 --> 00:19:52.520 And some friendships are like a dream 313 00:19:53.800 --> 00:19:56.600 And the thing about the drains is you must ask the Holy Spirit 314 00:19:57.560 --> 00:19:58.600 What 315 00:19:58.600 --> 00:20:03.640 And what are the places where I am giving my life away in friendship 316 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.600 Sometimes I will be the drain 317 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.880 Sometimes I'll be the one with the cancer diagnosis 318 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:12.360 With the complicated relationship 319 00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:14.760 With the unspeakable pain 320 00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:21.560 Sometimes I will call my friends and say today I need your prayers and your love because I am low 321 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:24.600 Will you come and be with me 322 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.920 And sometimes my call is to give my life away in friendship to the dreams 323 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.920 Because the call of God is the pursuing self-sacrificial 324 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:36.680 Suffering love that is with us in our places of deepest pain 325 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:41.400 So when I look at my friendships the way I'm looking at them is I'm pursuing the waterfalls 326 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:44.120 I'm careful about the pools 327 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:51.080 And I'm asking the Spirit which places of drain are the places where you're calling me to give my life away 328 00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:52.440 Because of the love of God 329 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.960 It's helpful, I think also from the perspectives of leadership as well 330 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:56.840 Like I think it's so 331 00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:00.520 Just helpful to be intentional, isn't it? 332 00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:04.360 And like to actually identify the different people that are in your life 333 00:21:04.360 --> 00:21:05.640 And they're not bad 334 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.600 But identifying where you can pour energy and where 335 00:21:10.520 --> 00:21:11.240 Where you can't 336 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:12.440 It's much in the same way 337 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:13.560 I'm part of leadership 338 00:21:13.560 --> 00:21:16.760 Not male or female just leadership in general is 339 00:21:16.760 --> 00:21:18.280 Our time is finite 340 00:21:19.320 --> 00:21:21.080 The need of the world is infinite 341 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.400 Ask the Father what is the calling that the Father has put over your life 342 00:21:26.040 --> 00:21:29.080 Really everything in our life just flows from intimacy 343 00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:30.600 So again, that's not a gendered calling 344 00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:32.840 That's just our reality of calling in general 345 00:21:32.840 --> 00:21:35.720 Holy Spirit, what are you asking me to do with my time? 346 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:37.880 What are you asking me to do with my friendships? 347 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:40.840 Cultivate that relationship of intimacy with Christ 348 00:21:40.840 --> 00:21:42.840 And from that everything else will flow 349 00:21:42.840 --> 00:21:46.520 Has God ever sort of revealed verses to you that sort of 350 00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:50.440 Ground you in your leadership or that you found to be inspiring 351 00:21:51.560 --> 00:21:53.240 I'm not exaggerating when I say this 352 00:21:54.120 --> 00:21:55.320 Every day 353 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.840 It says in scripture that his word is a lamp to our feet in the light to our paths 354 00:22:01.560 --> 00:22:03.480 Our world is full of great darkness 355 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:05.720 You cannot walk without the lamp and the light 356 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:11.560 And so the consistent discipline of my life is every day I am in conversation with Jesus 357 00:22:11.560 --> 00:22:13.880 And that conversation roots around God's word 358 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.680 So this morning before I came here I was reading one Corinthians one 359 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.120 I've just started the letters of Paul again 360 00:22:18.840 --> 00:22:22.520 And it says Paul an apostle who was called by God 361 00:22:22.520 --> 00:22:25.160 I didn't get past that sentence this morning 362 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:27.960 And just to come back to the calling section 363 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:32.120 Just for this beautiful teaching about calling that sometimes we're caught by the call of God 364 00:22:32.120 --> 00:22:35.560 We have this radical Holy Spirit's open heavens moment 365 00:22:35.560 --> 00:22:37.560 Doesn't happen every day but sometimes it does 366 00:22:38.280 --> 00:22:40.520 Sometimes our calling comes to our family 367 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.600 The generational prayers that have come over us the the call of Timothy 368 00:22:44.600 --> 00:22:47.320 Sometimes it comes because our gifting someone says over you 369 00:22:47.320 --> 00:22:49.800 Oh, you're gifting shows us your calling 370 00:22:49.800 --> 00:22:52.760 And sometimes our calling comes because we've just made a decision 371 00:22:53.320 --> 00:22:56.920 Sometimes the calling comes because we've said yes to an opportunity 372 00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.720 I was called by God to be here filming this today 373 00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:02.600 In part because I said yes to the invitation I received 374 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.600 And in those areas of calling when we're called by God 375 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:12.520 We're daily asking Holy Spirit will you film me with your authority with your kindness 376 00:23:12.520 --> 00:23:16.760 With your love so that we can walk in whatever the call of God is over our lives 377 00:23:17.320 --> 00:23:19.080 So that verse is near that's like 378 00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:22.680 The living you love worthy of the calling that you've been given 379 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:23.960 Absolutely so close 380 00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:31.960 One thing I would like to ask you about is that the theme of women in leadership 381 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.520 And in the church isn't what you grew up 382 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.040 Um where they they didn't believe in in women in leadership 383 00:23:38.040 --> 00:23:41.960 And now you're in a position where your life has taken a different journey than that 384 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.800 And would communicate that women can be a leadership 385 00:23:45.800 --> 00:23:50.760 And I guess like it's a journey for people to figure out what what they think and what they believe 386 00:23:50.760 --> 00:23:54.760 And I guess I would love to know if you've there's any scripture that's actually encouraged you 387 00:23:54.760 --> 00:24:00.680 And in that topic in that subject especially that's helped you end up where you are now 388 00:24:00.760 --> 00:24:05.000 And this could be its own whole podcast just on the topic of how do we read scripture 389 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.800 With this vision of God's love and calling over women 390 00:24:07.800 --> 00:24:11.320 And instead of choosing a single scripture what I just want to answer with is 391 00:24:12.040 --> 00:24:17.720 And what was transformational in my understanding of this call was rereading scripture 392 00:24:18.280 --> 00:24:20.680 Through the lens of this simple statement 393 00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:23.640 God loves and calls a woman 394 00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:26.840 Now that sentence is ridiculously simple 395 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.480 But it's radically impactful 396 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:33.800 And when you read it through that lens through the orientation of that calling 397 00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:36.200 What you see is a complete 398 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.320 Re-envisioning of the call of God over women in scripture 399 00:24:39.320 --> 00:24:45.000 You see the life of Miriam who is the worship leader who led the people of God in celebration and victory 400 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.240 You see it through the lens of Deborah the woman who was a judge of Israel 401 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:55.640 And to whom the men said we don't want to go to war without you leading us 402 00:24:55.720 --> 00:25:02.840 We see it through the lens of holder the prophetess to whom kings came and said tell us how to lead forward 403 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:08.120 We see it through the lens of Esther the woman who is called to lead the people of God into victory 404 00:25:08.360 --> 00:25:11.400 I could keep going through the story in the narrative of our scripture 405 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:15.880 We see it through the lens of Lydia the one who is the first Christian in Europe 406 00:25:16.520 --> 00:25:23.480 And the one from whom all who are watching this podcast if you are in any Western Christianity setting 407 00:25:23.800 --> 00:25:28.120 Lydia is the spiritual great great great great great great great grandmother of your churches 408 00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:31.640 We see it through the lens of a God who calls 409 00:25:32.360 --> 00:25:36.280 And gives identity and authority to women in their leadership 410 00:25:37.080 --> 00:25:41.800 And there are one or two passages of scripture that are a bit complex on this topic 411 00:25:42.280 --> 00:25:46.600 And so what I say to you is if you're in a church that hasn't wrestled through this do the work 412 00:25:47.320 --> 00:25:53.080 There are beautiful places of theological depth that give an invitation to read scripture 413 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:54.920 With God's calling for women 414 00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:59.880 I'll give a little shout out to Lucy Papiott and Amy or you as two women who have done 415 00:26:00.360 --> 00:26:03.320 phenomenal robust theological work on this topic 416 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:11.800 But what I would say to us as a whole is I want to be part of a church where a hundred percent of the church are leading 417 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:16.360 I don't want to be in a church where 50% of the church are sitting on the sidelines 418 00:26:17.320 --> 00:26:19.400 Cheering on one half while they lead 419 00:26:20.120 --> 00:26:23.960 The call of God over our lives and the vision of the kingdom is far too much 420 00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:27.080 For us to have a generation in which half of the church 421 00:26:27.560 --> 00:26:34.600 Are sitting in a bench type of setting rather than absolutely roaring and leading for the sake of the kingdom 422 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:37.960 I think there's the there's gonna be a lot of people watching this 423 00:26:38.600 --> 00:26:42.920 Who like lot of girls who do feel cold into ministry like you and 424 00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:47.800 I wonder if you have sort of like a word for them or a word of encouragement to to share with them 425 00:26:48.040 --> 00:26:50.200 Yeah, just specifically start small 426 00:26:50.840 --> 00:26:52.840 Yeah dream big 427 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.960 When I was 16 years old I started loading copy paper into the copy machine at my church 428 00:26:59.080 --> 00:27:03.400 If you told me I would so much as hold a microphone in a church setting. I would have shivered in my boots 429 00:27:05.320 --> 00:27:09.240 I then did kids ministry and set up tables and chairs 430 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.200 Learned to pray my heart out 431 00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:16.040 asked every older woman I'd ever met where you teach me a little bit of how you lead 432 00:27:16.840 --> 00:27:18.840 I learned to pray in tongues 433 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:21.160 I learned to prophesy 434 00:27:21.320 --> 00:27:26.520 I learned for a decade before I ever did anything publicly 435 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.400 And when I say start small, I literally do mean start as small 436 00:27:32.360 --> 00:27:36.680 As any place you've ever imagined because the kingdom of God is the parable the mustard seed 437 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:40.760 The seed so small that you could barely see it on my pinky if I had it right now 438 00:27:41.560 --> 00:27:43.880 choose the lowest 439 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:50.120 Quietest gentlest place of serving don't do it for the attention don't do it for the likes don't do it for the streams 440 00:27:50.600 --> 00:27:53.320 Let your character be formed in the hidden places, but then 441 00:27:54.280 --> 00:27:55.960 in contrast 442 00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:58.280 Dream big 443 00:27:58.280 --> 00:28:03.720 Dream for the place in which our world would be re captivated by the wonder of God 444 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:12.600 Dream of the day when you might walk into the royal palace and see a princess on fire with the light of the love of God 445 00:28:13.320 --> 00:28:16.840 Dream for the place where our world is turned upside down 446 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:19.800 Chapter 17 with the message of the gospel again 447 00:28:20.600 --> 00:28:29.960 Dream for a generation where the most well-known influencers in the world would say my life has been changed by the radiant love of God 448 00:28:30.280 --> 00:28:36.680 Dream bigger than you ever dared imagine and know that the seeds of the kingdom are always sewn in the small and hidden places 449 00:28:38.040 --> 00:28:40.040 What are you dreaming about at the moment? 450 00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:42.920 Princess 451 00:28:43.800 --> 00:28:48.680 What I am dreaming about is probably everything I've just said there along with leading the kind of church 452 00:28:49.560 --> 00:28:53.480 Where the power of the spirit is so known among my younger leaders 453 00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:59.320 That every one of the older leaders. I'm medium old now. I'm 42 guys. I've had a good run of it 454 00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:03.240 If all goes well, I think I've got another 42 years in me 455 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:05.720 But you know what I want to do for the next 42 years 456 00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:08.040 I want to give as much as I can away 457 00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:11.240 I want to say to the 16-year-olds in my church 458 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.240 Oh, I see the call that God has on your life and I can't wait to teach you how to lead 459 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:20.680 And I want to say to the 16-year-olds in my church that leadership doesn't always look 460 00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:23.560 Like a public platform in a Christian setting 461 00:29:24.120 --> 00:29:30.120 Go be the best scientist, the best barista, the best politician, the best head teacher 462 00:29:30.520 --> 00:29:35.240 Go do that in the name of Jesus that our world might see what the love of God looks like 463 00:29:35.800 --> 00:29:37.800 That's what I'm dreaming about 464 00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:41.560 Valid what what are you dreaming about someone? What am I dreaming about? 465 00:29:42.760 --> 00:29:44.760 You know, it's a shame 466 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.680 Just like that connected what about you what are you dreaming about? 467 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:50.840 I know I think I feel quite challenged by it 468 00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:55.240 I think there's that verse isn't it was like God can do more than you eventually ask to imagine 469 00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:59.720 I don't feel like I imagine that big really like I feel like a quite challenged that I should be 470 00:30:00.280 --> 00:30:03.800 Dreaming bigger for his kingdom on this earth and then he'll do more than that anyway 471 00:30:04.280 --> 00:30:07.640 I really I found it really challenging about five or ten years ago someone said to me 472 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:12.200 If all your dreams and all of your prayers came true 473 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:15.000 Would anyone even notice 474 00:30:15.080 --> 00:30:19.880 And it really inspired me as well to like start praying and dreaming bigger dream. Yeah 475 00:30:20.360 --> 00:30:23.640 And one of the simplest ways to do this is just to pray and say 476 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:27.160 Open to me the mind of heaven 477 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:35.560 Where literally the way Paul prayed was I want the inexhaustible riches of the eternal glory of God to be known through us 478 00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:41.080 So when I pray I'm like sometimes if I don't know how to pray bigger literally just pray the prayers are Paul and Ephesians 479 00:30:41.320 --> 00:30:43.320 Yeah, not so much 480 00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:46.440 You don't need to find your own fancy words for this they've been gifted to us 481 00:30:46.840 --> 00:30:51.400 But then pray those for your friendships your community your church your world 482 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.720 And enter into the longing heart that God has already given through his word 483 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:01.800 One thing I would like to ask you about like you've mentioned about how you've had different people speak into your life 484 00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:04.680 And also a lot of men speak into your life 485 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.480 And I think one thing that I personally find quite difficult is that 486 00:31:08.280 --> 00:31:10.440 There's a lot of male leaders around 487 00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:15.800 Brilliant male leaders that I want to be invested in by but it's it's often that men invested men 488 00:31:16.120 --> 00:31:19.800 And women invested women especially because of like today's culture and all the safeguarding stuff 489 00:31:19.800 --> 00:31:21.000 Which is really valid 490 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:27.720 But how as a woman can I be mentored by both women and men or how how would you yeah 491 00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:30.280 You help me that is such a brilliant question 492 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:34.200 So for anyone who's watching who doesn't have a bit of context on this there was this moment 493 00:31:34.280 --> 00:31:36.120 What that was called the Billy Graham rule yeah 494 00:31:36.520 --> 00:31:41.800 And it was developed in the 60s where a really well-known Christian leader and an extraordinary leader named Billy Graham 495 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.640 Basically said he would never be in the room alone with a woman. Yeah 496 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:47.960 And in 497 00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:50.200 26 years later 498 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:53.000 We are still reaping the fruit of that decision 499 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:59.240 And I've had some actually like fairly outrageous moments one of the wildest is I was in like a major city 500 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:02.920 With a group of other very senior leaders and 501 00:32:04.120 --> 00:32:09.080 There there was a series of people being dropped off and the last two would have been myself and a male leader 502 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:13.640 And rather than transporting me the extra 10 minutes to my actual hotel 503 00:32:14.120 --> 00:32:18.040 And they dropped me off at the street corner in the middle of this major city in the middle of the night 504 00:32:18.120 --> 00:32:20.440 Because the male couldn't be alone in the car with me 505 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.600 Which first of all is like I promise actually don't find you that attractive 506 00:32:25.080 --> 00:32:28.040 And secondly kind of the basic common sense of like 507 00:32:28.280 --> 00:32:33.400 It's quite late at this point. It's a major world city and we're dropping off the single female leader on the street corner 508 00:32:34.040 --> 00:32:36.040 And probably not a good look 509 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:41.400 All of that to say I would say that one of the places I've most received my mentoring 510 00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:45.240 Is by being creative in my approach to what that looks like 511 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.360 So let me just make this like really concrete for a moment 512 00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:53.000 If there's a leader that you're really keen to be mentored by and you recognize that they have that boundary 513 00:32:53.560 --> 00:32:57.720 And you want to honor their marriage you all of the reasons that will exist 514 00:32:57.800 --> 00:33:03.000 Absolutely one of the ways to approach it would be to say are you open to doing some targeting mentoring 515 00:33:03.800 --> 00:33:07.720 I would love it if you could do an investment session with myself and a few other leaders 516 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:12.040 It immediately takes a bit of the pressure off of the one-on-one moment 517 00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:16.600 But secondly, I'm actually such a big fan of tag team mentoring 518 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:20.680 Most of the mentoring I do is tag team mentoring as well 519 00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:25.720 Because if I'm in a room with for example both of you the questions at Solomon asks 520 00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.360 Might be really valuable for your journey. Yeah, and there's actually going to be a better cohesion 521 00:33:30.600 --> 00:33:32.920 So what happens is it's a wise or use 522 00:33:33.560 --> 00:33:37.640 Of my time to mentor a group of leaders instead of just the one-on-one 523 00:33:38.360 --> 00:33:44.920 And then the second thing is and I wish this was different, but this is the reality a lot of the ways I've learned and grown 524 00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.200 Have been by me just saying keen for every opportunity that's ahead of me 525 00:33:50.760 --> 00:33:55.480 And so some of that means I've learned by listening to the podcast instead of having the one-on-one time 526 00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:58.120 By reading the book instead of asking the questions 527 00:33:58.760 --> 00:34:03.640 And a lot of that means I have had a bit of hard graphed in my mentoring journey 528 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:08.200 And it's why I'm so keen to develop and mentor as many younger leaders as possible 529 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:14.120 I think just acknowledging actually we still live in the legacy of the place where the men mentored the men 530 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:20.520 Which meant lots of the woman didn't have the same resource same development same training or same experience 531 00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.640 We are still catching up from that point 532 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:30.920 And yet I sit here today as a senior leader who oversees a church with almost 200 people in three locations 533 00:34:31.720 --> 00:34:38.680 And God has opened doors prepared opportunities and I've just said yes to every opportunity that is ahead of me 534 00:34:39.560 --> 00:34:45.800 I think this this entire topic is a point of you know contention and for a lot of women in the church a lot of women who want to be a ministry 535 00:34:46.040 --> 00:34:48.040 It's a point of pain. So 536 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.840 You know when when when faced with sort of 537 00:34:51.720 --> 00:34:56.920 Or could situations are pushed back or disagreements. How do you how do you disagree well in in these 538 00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:02.200 situations? I guess and honorably, you know, Solomon is such a great question 539 00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:05.640 And I think in my early days of preaching and leadership 540 00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:12.440 This was so tender that it was hard for me to even have a conversation about this topic without crying 541 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:14.280 and 542 00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:16.280 It's in parts because 543 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.960 There's an intrinsic challenge to the woman in leadership who's being told she can't lead 544 00:35:22.520 --> 00:35:24.840 Because essentially in my own body 545 00:35:25.160 --> 00:35:27.160 I'm like I can't change who I am 546 00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:34.760 And yet you're telling me the only part of God's invitation only part of God's calling only part of God's award 547 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:41.240 Is available to me because of my gender and so in my early days of leadership. It was so 548 00:35:42.200 --> 00:35:48.120 Emotionally devastating to enter into these conversations and the reality is 549 00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:54.920 I would still live in a world where most of my background most of the place of the church that I grew up in 550 00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:59.320 I am outside of the box of their theological convictions 551 00:36:00.200 --> 00:36:03.240 and so the couple things I'd say is first and foremost 552 00:36:04.040 --> 00:36:05.960 And sure that you know 553 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:12.440 What God's calling is for you and where your feet are planted in that calling 554 00:36:13.240 --> 00:36:18.280 The way my friend Pete Greg says this and he's speaking about another topic, but it's appropriate for this one 555 00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:23.560 You can only reach out your hands broadly when your feet are planted firmly 556 00:36:24.520 --> 00:36:27.880 And so I have friends who would sit in a 557 00:36:28.600 --> 00:36:30.600 hyper conservative 558 00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:35.960 deeply complementary in camp and say that woman should not ever speak in any public setting 559 00:36:36.600 --> 00:36:43.480 But we are still friends because I know where my feet are planted and I'm still willing to hold out my hand in friendship to them 560 00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:49.480 I would have friends who sit in camps in other areas and I'm able to hold my hands out in love to them as well 561 00:36:50.120 --> 00:36:52.840 But I know where my feet are planted firmly 562 00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:56.280 Secondly, and this is 563 00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:59.000 vital to any Christian leader 564 00:36:59.560 --> 00:37:04.040 We must learn how to hold a spirit of love 565 00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.480 To those who sit in a different space than us 566 00:37:08.520 --> 00:37:10.920 And so particularly in my early days 567 00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:15.480 I found these conversations are really defensive and really angsty and I would 568 00:37:16.120 --> 00:37:20.760 Just find such deep pain in the midst of it and the Holy Spirit just said to me 569 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:23.800 Can you learn 570 00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:28.600 What the love of God looks like for those who think differently than you do 571 00:37:29.720 --> 00:37:32.440 And so I just began to pray Holy Spirit teach me how to love 572 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:35.000 Holy Spirit teach me how to love 573 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:37.000 Holy Spirit teach me how to love 574 00:37:37.240 --> 00:37:39.240 Years of praying that prayer 575 00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.480 And I can sit on this podcast today and say to both of you and to anyone listening 576 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:46.760 God has given me such love 577 00:37:48.040 --> 00:37:50.840 For my brothers who sit in a different camp than I do on this 578 00:37:51.640 --> 00:37:54.360 I hold respect for their leadership and ministry 579 00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:56.600 We've agreed to disagree 580 00:37:57.560 --> 00:38:01.320 I don't live in the framework that they would still sit within 581 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:05.320 But my heart is filled with love towards them 582 00:38:06.200 --> 00:38:08.520 And then thirdly and this is equally important 583 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.240 Find the friends who will champion and cheer you on 584 00:38:14.120 --> 00:38:16.280 And not do it just because they like you 585 00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:21.400 But do it because they affirm I see God's anointing I see God's calling 586 00:38:21.640 --> 00:38:24.680 I see the full favor of the Holy Spirit on your life 587 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:30.520 And if I still lived in a world where all of my friends were concerned around the calling 588 00:38:31.160 --> 00:38:33.160 I wouldn't be strengthened to walk in it 589 00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:40.360 But the reality is God has surrounded me with a cloud of witnesses and great group of cheerleaders 590 00:38:40.680 --> 00:38:44.040 Who say to me we see God's calling over your life 591 00:38:44.040 --> 00:38:49.640 We are cheering you on and even some of the friends who would say Sarah 592 00:38:50.040 --> 00:38:52.280 Theologically you break our box 593 00:38:53.240 --> 00:38:57.000 When I read scripture I actually don't know that I agree with what you're doing 594 00:38:57.560 --> 00:38:59.720 But I see God's anointing on your life 595 00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:03.080 And so you break my box, but I'm cheering you on 596 00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:06.920 And then I have far far far far more friends who would say to me 597 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:12.680 The way we read scripture says that God's calling is over all woman at all times in all places 598 00:39:13.160 --> 00:39:16.200 And we're cheering you on because we see the call of God over you 599 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:19.400 Know where your feet are planted 600 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.080 Learn to love even those who you disagree with 601 00:39:23.560 --> 00:39:27.400 And find the companions who will cheer you on for the sake of the gospel 602 00:39:29.560 --> 00:39:31.160 I mean, that's that's good advice even just 603 00:39:32.040 --> 00:39:34.040 Generally 604 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:38.280 So let's end on 605 00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:42.200 Some good stuff 606 00:39:43.160 --> 00:39:47.720 It's a good things we love women and leadership as three as three as two you 607 00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.200 Do two nice things. What are some like the 608 00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:55.400 What are some of the like 609 00:39:56.360 --> 00:40:02.440 The key strengths do you think you see of having women and leadership spaces like what do you what what do you see tell tell us yeah 610 00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.000 Is he there's so many 611 00:40:05.160 --> 00:40:11.320 Places I could go with this but I'll just say one of the most beautiful realities when women are empowered to lead 612 00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:13.960 Is that the heart of compassion 613 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:16.760 The heart of the mother 614 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:21.160 The heart of the one who knows how to hold emotional depth 615 00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:25.800 And a deep joyful call for the kingdom are embodied together 616 00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:30.360 And so what you end up finding when you find a strong female leader 617 00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:35.000 Is one who is strong and often strong and compassion 618 00:40:35.560 --> 00:40:37.560 Strong in wisdom 619 00:40:37.560 --> 00:40:43.960 Strong in recognizing that we are embodied creatures who are called to love God heart soul mind and strength 620 00:40:44.600 --> 00:40:47.080 And I've just been lingering in this really beautiful reality 621 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:54.200 Proverbs chapter eight describes the Holy Spirit as a wisdom and it's exclusively the female voice 622 00:40:54.920 --> 00:41:01.880 And this beautiful embodiment is Proverbs eight saying wisdom is crying out. It's calling for you 623 00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:06.760 And it's calling for you to come and find your home in the presence of Jesus 624 00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:13.240 And I would just say to you there are places I can go and there are conversations that I can have 625 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:15.800 Because I'm a woman 626 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:20.200 Places I can go or because I'm a woman. There's a lowering of a defenses 627 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:29.800 There's a welcome of gentleness and I can come and often name within my team within my church within a room of senior leaders 628 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:33.720 Things that might instantly become a little bit more combative 629 00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.440 If I was a senior male leader 630 00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:41.320 And so one of the graces of Christ on my life and I believe on the lives of female leaders 631 00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:46.120 Is to be able to walk in with a spirit of authority and gentleness? 632 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:48.440 That says oh 633 00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:50.280 Wisdom's crying out 634 00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:53.960 What would it look like if within our lives within our churches within our communities? 635 00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:56.520 We genuinely listened to wisdom 636 00:41:57.160 --> 00:42:01.240 And I think that the overarching call the overarching opportunity. I see 637 00:42:02.040 --> 00:42:04.360 Is exactly what I said earlier in this podcast 638 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.760 Imagine our churches if everyone young and old 639 00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:10.920 male and female 640 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:12.120 Slave and free 641 00:42:12.120 --> 00:42:17.960 Do you intend to if everyone within our churches was fully empowered 642 00:42:18.600 --> 00:42:21.560 Alive with the Holy Spirit to be a witness for the gospel 643 00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:24.680 Imagine what our churches our communities in our world would look like 644 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:30.920 So I think the greatest opportunity is to say hey, we've got good news and we want everybody empowered to share it 645 00:42:31.720 --> 00:42:33.720 Great. That's great 646 00:42:34.200 --> 00:42:37.240 No, that's really great. I think I thank you Sarah. Thank you for all you've bought 647 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.720 I feel like we've touched on so many subjects and I feel 648 00:42:39.720 --> 00:42:43.480 Personally just so like encouraged on like so many avenues that I wasn't expecting 649 00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:45.880 Yeah, we're very thankful that you came here today to talk to us 650 00:42:46.200 --> 00:42:49.480 Yeah, we've been a delight to listen to a lot of wisdom to share 651 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:51.480 Well, wisdom 652 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.480 Yeah 653 00:42:53.720 --> 00:42:56.920 And do you have a favorite emoji that people can leave in the comment? 654 00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:00.840 Oh, I've been using the hearthands a lot lately. I know it's a lot of basic 655 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.640 But we'll go for it. Give me some hearthands. Let's do it leave the hearthands emoji in the comments 656 00:43:05.720 --> 00:43:07.720 And we'll see you next time 657 00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:10.440 We will