WEBVTT

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In today's modern technological world, developers face many difficult questions.

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Artificial intelligence, autonomous agents, JavaScript frameworks, even CSS.

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With so much happening so quickly, how can a developer possibly keep up?

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Simple.

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Just listen to the world's most important AI podcast.

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Two experts, countless opinions, zero hesitation.

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The internet is complicated.

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These men are not.

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Each week, they review the latest developments in artificial intelligence and modern web development.

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This is Whiskey, Web, and Whatnot, the world's most important AI podcast.

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Whiskey, Web, and Whatnot is brought to you by...

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Over half my PRs are created by agents these days.

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Same thing with my coworkers.

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Now, we'd be shipping code faster if it wasn't for all the bottleneck, managing branches,

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work trees, pull requests, merge conflicts, it's just a whole big mess.

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But enter GitKraken.

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That's been helping me stay in control of all this parallel agentic development.

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It's got visual Git workflows, code reviews, pull request management, and merge conflict

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resolution all built in, not to mention it's got my own model subscriptions available right

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there as agents.

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So generating more code, that's the easy part.

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But keeping all that work moving in and out and flowing towards production, now that's

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It's the hard part.

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If you want to spend less time fighting it and more time building,

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download Get Cracking today at getcracking.com slash whiskey FM

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and get a special promo offer.

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Cool.

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Back to that episode.

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What's up, everybody?

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We're at, let me start again.

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Hey, this is Whiskey Web and whatnot.

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Hey.

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We've done this before.

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Yes.

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So Whiskey Web and whatnot live at React Miami,

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hanging out with Jason Langsdorf at the Clerk booth.

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Thanks, Clerk, for having us out.

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Yes.

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Great time had by all.

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Yeah.

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We have a bunch of hot takes for you if you would like to rapid fire do them.

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We can also talk about whatever you want.

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But let's see.

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I mean, I want to hear about the Lambo first.

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Hold on.

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Can we just start there?

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I mean, how could we pass that up?

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What year was the Lambo?

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What was the color technically called?

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Man, I'm going to be lucky to get the model of this thing.

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It was a Lamborghini Huracan.

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Oh.

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I didn't even know that was one of them.

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Dope name.

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Yeah.

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I looked it up.

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I'm glad I looked it up after I drove it because now I know what it costs.

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Which was?

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About 50 bucks.

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Yeah, it's a quarter million dollar car.

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It was electric lime green.

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I don't know what the official colorway was, but it was.

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Fuck you, money green, I believe.

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Yeah, something like that.

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But it was incredibly fun to drive.

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And I've informed my wife that we're going to have to take out a second mortgage on the house because I'm going to need one of those.

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I need to feel that engine again on my butt.

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I didn't even get to drive it in fun mode.

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Like the, the, it's one of the, the, these supercars have, um, a million switches for

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like traction control and torque and all that stuff.

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And the, the car handler, when I asked him if I could drive the car, I watched him get

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in and he started flipping all the switches to like kid friendly mode.

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Baby's first drive.

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In all, in all honesty, uh, I had never driven anything more powerful than a Toyota Prius

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before.

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So it was the right choice by the handler to not let me drive that thing at full power

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But I kind of wanted to

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Did you put it to the floor at least once?

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For one minute, yeah

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This was all part of a shoot that we did for Clerk

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Where we were, as part of doing this

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We ended up getting a police escort and closing a bridge

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So that we could do some driving shots in Miami

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And the police escort would get way out in front

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So that they're not in the shot

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So you get this big open stretch of empty road

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in front of you and I'm driving a quarter million dollar car.

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And I was like, you know, if I just push down, this could be fun.

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So I, uh, yeah, at one point I, I just wanted to see, I didn't get it going that fast, but

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I did the zero to 60 thing to see how it felt and it felt wonderful.

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It was great.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Can highly recommend, uh, if you ever get the opportunity to floor it in a Lamborghini,

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you should do that.

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Nice.

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It was automatic also.

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It was automatic.

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Like it had paddle shifting, but again, in kid friendly mode, because if you drop the clutch in a quarter million dollar car, I think you have to buy it.

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That's how it works.

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How did the pedal feel?

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You know how like a truck has like a different pedal?

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Some pedals are stiff.

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Some of them are loose.

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Some of them give you lots of early feedback.

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And then what was it like?

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It was it was very responsive, but not jumpy.

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Like I kind of expected it to be like I've driven cars where as soon as you touch the gas, it like jumps kind of like jerks you.

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Yeah, that's what I mean.

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it was really responsive without like throwing me back.

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Right.

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You feel the acceleration, but you're not being like jerked around.

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So it's a, it's, it's really nice to drive.

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It was really fun.

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Oh man.

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Nice.

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So sick.

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Can you tell us about, uh, like why, why did you have a Lamborghini?

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Or is there like, or is that a secret for, we'll find out later.

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No, no, no, no secret.

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So what we, what we did was I, uh, the clerk team reached out to me and I, they, they said,

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we're going to react Miami.

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We want to go big.

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We want to do something really fun.

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And so I said, okay, great.

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Why don't I like bring a crew and we'll do some interviews on the spot.

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We'll get some really good sizzle reel.

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We'll like be able to fly a drone around the venue.

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You know, it'll be fun.

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And they were like, we like it, but can you think bigger?

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I was like, okay, what if we did some interviews the day before?

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We'll like bring some, you know, be strategic about who we want to talk to.

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We'll bring some people out.

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We'll do some interviews in like a nice location.

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They were like, all right, we like where you're going, but can you think bigger?

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I was like, we'll rent a location per speaker.

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and they were like bigger.

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I was like, we'll rent a Lamborghini.

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And they were like, there you go.

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That's what we were looking for.

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But so the idea is we're going to release a new show here pretty soon called The Build Log.

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And the core idea around it is that we wanted to explore this concept of like the industry is changing faster than we've ever seen.

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All the tools seem to be falling out from under our feet.

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There's new stuff every day.

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but that I think is creating a lot of burnout and anxiety and this sense of hopelessness and like,

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how can I possibly keep up?

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I got to do my day job, right?

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I don't have time to

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just read this stuff all the time.

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So the thought was let's focus on the things that don't change

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and the things that make builders into builders aren't really going to change.

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They were true

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in the bronze age.

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They were true 10 years ago and they'll be true 10 years from now because

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they're not tools, right?

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It's a mindset.

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It's a strategy.

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It's the outlook.

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It's the way you treat people.

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It's the way you lead.

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Those are the things that really make builders into builders.

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And so we wanted to talk to people about the concrete,

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like the principles that govern

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how they were able to build things.

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And we wanted to talk to people

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who've had a really successful time building.

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So we had Colin Sidoti from Clerk.

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We had Tanner Lindsley from the Tan Stack.

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We talked to Gabe Greenberg from G2I.

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And we talked to Rita Kozlov from the Cloudflare team.

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And each of them has built something a little bit different.

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And hearing the way that they thought about how to build healthy teams and to take these really big swings, you know, with whether you're doing a startup or a big internal project or an open source community, it's a big long-term swing.

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So how do you know what to focus on, where to put your energy, which things are worth betting on and which things aren't, how to say yes to this feature request but no to that feature request.

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There's so many things you've got to be able to get right.

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and you got to keep the whole team going with you.

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You got to keep everybody going in the same direction.

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You got to make sure that as you grow,

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you don't like lose sight of the vision

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or have people who don't really understand

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what the original goal was.

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There's a million things

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that have nothing to do with the tools.

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And if you can get those things right,

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any set of tools is going to get you where you want to go.

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So that's what we wanted to talk about in the show.

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And the Lamborghini was there to drive me between interviews

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because that was,

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originally we were going to do it

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as kind of like a comedians in cars getting coffee vibe.

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Yeah.

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But we figured out there's literally nowhere inside of a Lamborghini to hide equipment.

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Oh, or the sound.

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There's barely enough room for two passengers.

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So we were like, well, we can mount some cameras in the, nope, won't fit there.

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Maybe we can put a rig on the hood and like shoot through the windshield.

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But the windshield is so tilted back, you just see the reflection of the clouds.

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We were like, oh, we can get good polarizers.

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Like, this isn't going to work.

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I think the only way we could have done it is if we would have actually gone full out

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and gotten like a process trailer where you're not actually driving.

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you're being towed through the city yeah at which point you can like mount cameras all over the

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place but then you have to get like we already had to get road closures and permits but this is like

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big road closures and permits so it kind of goes from being like hey you're gonna do this thing

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for an hour to like okay you're like paying the city to shut down a full street for like a day

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and it's it gets way more expensive we don't and we didn't we wanted to go big we didn't want to

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we didn't want to be irresponsible you hit the edge of the request that's good that's good

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nice nice very cool all right well let's do just a few hot takes

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and we'll let you uh get back to we should record and tell the stuff yeah

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we've asked you a bunch of these before where should we start

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what's your least favorite programming language my least favorite programming language

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uh i would say my least favorite programming language is i was forced to write uh coffee

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script a little bit sorry that was just me breathing and it wasn't it wasn't coffee script

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specifically it was that coffee script hit the uncanny valley for me where everything that i knew

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didn't work anymore but it felt like it should yeah and so i felt like i was constantly stepping

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on rakes despite looking at something that looked like a thing i already knew so uh i i found it

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very frustrating not because of what it was but because of how similar it was to things that i

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had done before and how hard that made it for me to pick it up did coffee script have semicolons

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i forget no i don't i don't remember i've blocked most of the memory out semicolons or no semicolons

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i am uh i'm a semicolons person because in in you know there's like that one edge case where

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a semicolon is a problem if you don't have it yeah and i like why tempt fate like it's it's

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not like it matters like it's gonna get compiled away in the bundler so just do it like a pretty

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year i'll add it for you i know pretty you'll fix it if you don't have it too but like come on

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yeah i'm not sure that i've ever typed one honestly i feel like pretty you're always

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you just you just save and i like to see them it's like the end of my sentence exactly right

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like i i don't i'm not like carefully getting my tabs right but like i want my tabs to be right

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yeah like yeah i don't know i i also don't care like if i open up a project and the project has

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uh semicolons turned off in prettier i'm not gonna like argue yeah i just i let prettier

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do its thing.

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I feel like I've kind of

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completely let go of the idea of

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caring what code looks like.

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As long as the formatter does the thing

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and we don't get merge conflicts on code

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formatting.

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Yeah, makes sense.

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Have we reached

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AGI?

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No.

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What's your preferred AI harness?

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Can I be really honest?

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Yeah.

242
00:11:07.748 --> 00:11:08.840
I don't get to write code

243
00:11:08.901 --> 00:11:10.800
anymore, so I haven't

244
00:11:10.982 --> 00:11:12.158
used any.

245
00:11:12.199 --> 00:11:12.239
No

246
00:11:12.704 --> 00:11:14.460
cloud code, no codex, no pi.

247
00:11:14.842 --> 00:11:16.800
I downloaded cloud code.

248
00:11:17.103 --> 00:11:18.640
I think I paid for it by mistake.

249
00:11:20.041 --> 00:11:26.040
I got somebody sent me a, my friend Joel sent me a link to get like the preview of Claude

250
00:11:26.101 --> 00:11:27.000
Code, like a trial.

251
00:11:27.562 --> 00:11:29.200
And I put my credit card in for it and I think I forgot.

252
00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:34.240
So I think I'm paying for Claude Code, but I haven't, I've used it for like one thing

253
00:11:34.385 --> 00:11:34.700
to see.

254
00:11:34.800 --> 00:11:35.880
And I don't even think I finished it.

255
00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:38.420
I think I started and forgot what I was doing and moved on to the thing.

256
00:11:38.920 --> 00:11:45.860
But I've kind of like in my role now, so much of what I'm doing is helping other people

257
00:11:46.002 --> 00:11:47.040
talk about what they're building,

258
00:11:47.421 --> 00:11:50.060
that I don't ever actually build anything myself.

259
00:11:51.660 --> 00:11:53.019
So I've looked at a lot of them, but not doing it.

260
00:11:53.381 --> 00:11:54.120
SAS or SAS?

261
00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:56.240
Yeah, SCSS or SASS.

262
00:11:59.723 --> 00:12:00.612
Wait, the difference is that SAS

263
00:12:01.461 --> 00:12:02.780
has like the special syntax, right?

264
00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:05.389
SASS is omits semicolons,

265
00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:08.457
white space delimited.

266
00:12:08.580 --> 00:12:08.700
Yeah, not that one.

267
00:12:08.961 --> 00:12:10.220
No, I want the one that looks like CSS.

268
00:12:10.422 --> 00:12:11.291
These days, neither,

269
00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:14.560
because CSS does everything I want with nesting,

270
00:12:14.560 --> 00:12:16.080
and that was what I cared about.

271
00:12:16.833 --> 00:12:16.980
Yeah.

272
00:12:17.381 --> 00:12:19.780
And I never used the stuff that was confusing, like the mix-ins.

273
00:12:20.461 --> 00:12:24.280
I felt like they weren't quite clear enough as an abstraction,

274
00:12:24.460 --> 00:12:25.300
so I never really worked with it.

275
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.380
They were fun to write, but never fun to read someone else's.

276
00:12:27.380 --> 00:12:27.900
So fun to write.

277
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:29.940
But yeah, they were impossible to debug, even when it was mine.

278
00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:30.254
Yeah.

279
00:12:30.703 --> 00:12:32.058
And impossible to upgrade.

280
00:12:32.361 --> 00:12:34.560
Like if you're trying to move off of Sass, you're like, I'm stuck.

281
00:12:34.800 --> 00:12:34.960
Yeah.

282
00:12:36.311 --> 00:12:36.458
Yeah.

283
00:12:36.964 --> 00:12:37.920
East Coast or West Coast?

284
00:12:38.180 --> 00:12:38.519
West Coast.

285
00:12:40.242 --> 00:12:41.280
Whiskey on the rocks or neat?

286
00:12:43.594 --> 00:12:44.560
neat but with one rock

287
00:12:45.226 --> 00:12:46.740
I want a little bit of water to open it up

288
00:12:46.781 --> 00:12:47.979
but I don't want it all the way on the rocks

289
00:12:48.162 --> 00:12:49.760
just one rock that sounds like a rap dude

290
00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:50.925
black coffee or with milk

291
00:12:55.729 --> 00:12:56.980
depends on the coffee is it good coffee

292
00:12:57.444 --> 00:12:59.240
because I love a black coffee when it's good coffee

293
00:12:59.341 --> 00:13:00.460
but like if you know if we're having

294
00:13:01.326 --> 00:13:03.460
coffee from a hotel yeah McDonald's coffee

295
00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:04.277
I'm putting milk in there

296
00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:06.200
beards or mustaches

297
00:13:07.091 --> 00:13:07.800
obviously beards

298
00:13:10.376 --> 00:13:10.920
Adam or Robbie

299
00:13:13.268 --> 00:13:17.100
hmm is this is this robbie pre or post looking like the lead singer of hawthorne heights

300
00:13:18.751 --> 00:13:19.940
whichever you like better i guess

301
00:13:24.715 --> 00:13:26.380
i respectfully decline to answer the question

302
00:13:27.485 --> 00:13:30.460
nice all right that's all we got thanks for coming by appreciate it

303
00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:36.620
all right i'm just gonna keep it still recording so i don't forget to

304
00:13:37.063 --> 00:13:38.697
nice yeah i think we got kent

305
00:13:39.784 --> 00:13:41.069
Kent, we're ready for you if you're down

306
00:13:44.453 --> 00:13:44.839
Pop in

307
00:13:45.082 --> 00:13:46.059
Mr. Dodds, we're ready

308
00:13:46.661 --> 00:13:47.343
Kent C. Dodds

309
00:13:54.442 --> 00:13:56.980
Queuing up in the dugout right now

310
00:13:57.020 --> 00:13:58.180
Throwing a couple pitches with Jason

311
00:13:58.200 --> 00:13:58.524
Warming up

312
00:14:04.254 --> 00:14:06.000
Put on those headphones there to your left

313
00:14:07.832 --> 00:14:08.940
and all will be clear.

314
00:14:12.165 --> 00:14:12.358
Wait.

315
00:14:14.849 --> 00:14:16.420
It really makes me want to have a hearing aid.

316
00:14:16.641 --> 00:14:17.114
Like, this is dope.

317
00:14:17.482 --> 00:14:18.879
I can just hear all the time.

318
00:14:19.582 --> 00:14:20.478
That does feel like a future.

319
00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:21.340
Just always wear these.

320
00:14:21.445 --> 00:14:21.620
Yeah.

321
00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:23.120
Oh, because look at the clarity.

322
00:14:23.482 --> 00:14:23.954
Ooh, yeah.

323
00:14:24.561 --> 00:14:25.740
That does change everything.

324
00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:26.839
I can never hear anyone,

325
00:14:26.980 --> 00:14:28.960
and it makes having conversations very hard.

326
00:14:29.584 --> 00:14:32.520
I can just whisper at you with my softest and lowest voice,

327
00:14:32.902 --> 00:14:34.580
and it's just so crystal clear.

328
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:35.718
Oh, the dulcet tones.

329
00:14:36.665 --> 00:14:37.129
There we go.

330
00:14:37.290 --> 00:14:38.359
Now I'm going to just relax.

331
00:14:39.020 --> 00:14:39.500
Kick it, bro.

332
00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:42.260
These chairs are finicky, but we're making it work.

333
00:14:42.441 --> 00:14:42.992
Oh, they're good.

334
00:14:43.033 --> 00:14:43.380
They're good.

335
00:14:44.101 --> 00:14:45.499
What's been a highlight for you so far?

336
00:14:46.701 --> 00:14:52.140
Oh, so I got here for AIE on Monday, so I've been here all week.

337
00:14:52.340 --> 00:14:52.431
Wow.

338
00:14:53.381 --> 00:15:00.180
The highlight is definitely, sorry, I'm going to just slightly adjust this, and I'll start that over.

339
00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:08.040
yeah so I've been here all week and the highlight for me has been um talking with people in the

340
00:15:08.060 --> 00:15:13.798
hallways that honestly I actually track is always so good yeah um I originally was not speaking um

341
00:15:14.701 --> 00:15:19.700
I just a couple weeks ago decided you know I really need to be there to talk to people and so

342
00:15:20.201 --> 00:15:29.360
I um got my um flight and hotel just on myself and then Michelle was like hey somebody dropped out

343
00:15:29.582 --> 00:15:31.460
Like, would you mind filling in?

344
00:15:32.430 --> 00:15:32.659
Yeah.

345
00:15:34.065 --> 00:15:35.160
Did you have something in the hopper?

346
00:15:35.362 --> 00:15:35.780
Was it that new?

347
00:15:35.780 --> 00:15:43.919
Yeah, I was actually working on my AI assistant, the Kodi, that's powered or only really accessible through MCP.

348
00:15:45.001 --> 00:15:47.119
Just to kind of play around with it.

349
00:15:47.260 --> 00:15:49.679
You know, I did the OpenClaw thing, and that was fun.

350
00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:55.780
But there were some things about OpenClaw that I didn't particularly like.

351
00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:06.380
And I also, I really like MCP and I wanted to show people how powerful MCP can be by building like a personal agent or personal assistant.

352
00:16:08.706 --> 00:16:13.020
So I was having so much fun with that that I just started preparing the talk for nothing.

353
00:16:13.300 --> 00:16:15.200
I was like, I'm sure I'm eventually going to talk about this.

354
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:16.540
If you're learning, you write it down.

355
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.080
Someone else is going to want to follow the steps.

356
00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:19.059
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

357
00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:23.199
And so I said, yeah, Michelle, I've actually got a talk that's very applicable to AIE.

358
00:16:23.380 --> 00:16:25.109
and I think I could give that.

359
00:16:27.620 --> 00:16:31.280
And of course, last week, Cloudflare has their agents week

360
00:16:31.662 --> 00:16:34.860
and they're releasing something really significant every day

361
00:16:35.382 --> 00:16:39.080
that significantly impacts how I want Cody to be.

362
00:16:39.642 --> 00:16:41.340
And so I'm like constantly changing,

363
00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:43.100
like ripping things out and changing things.

364
00:16:43.180 --> 00:16:45.020
I've got two agents working on Cody right now.

365
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.280
Yeah, cloud agents for the win.

366
00:16:48.364 --> 00:16:52.420
And so it was a little bit stressful leading up to my talk

367
00:16:52.460 --> 00:16:57.475
because I was like changing things going up, but it ended up really good.

368
00:16:57.696 --> 00:16:58.940
So yeah, I'm loving it

369
00:16:58.960 --> 00:16:59.141
here.

370
00:16:59.342 --> 00:16:59.664
It's great.

371
00:16:59.986 --> 00:17:00.267
Awesome.

372
00:17:00.388 --> 00:17:02.017
I'm happy to hear that you're building your own agent.

373
00:17:02.117 --> 00:17:02.600
It's like one

374
00:17:02.640 --> 00:17:06.579
thing I was kind of laughing about last week was how we're in a malleable software state.

375
00:17:06.619 --> 00:17:06.740
We're

376
00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:07.645
in personal software.

377
00:17:07.665 --> 00:17:08.429
That's what everyone wants.

378
00:17:08.570 --> 00:17:10.400
And it is, it's a meaningful thing to be talking

379
00:17:10.520 --> 00:17:10.721
about.

380
00:17:11.002 --> 00:17:14.337
But so many people went and pulled OpenClaw off the shelf and never customized it.

381
00:17:14.979 --> 00:17:15.120
And you

382
00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:17.372
were like, no, I'm going to, I'm going to customize it.

383
00:17:17.432 --> 00:17:18.800
And to me, I was like thinking of it like

384
00:17:19.081 --> 00:17:24.960
punk rockers or goths that they all uh want to be unique yet they go look the same so it's all

385
00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:30.040
us developers are like malleable software i love customizable personal software i'm just gonna go

386
00:17:30.261 --> 00:17:33.480
use the thing off the shelf though you know and i'm like that's the opposite you're doing the

387
00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:37.640
thing that the goths did you know anyway so i'm happy to hear that you're not a goth you're like

388
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:43.540
a legit indie uh you know put on the ground dude you got the history like you you've seen this

389
00:17:43.660 --> 00:17:51.380
repeat itself um through that uh that goth lens so yeah that's good oh that's awesome yeah i i

390
00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:59.100
think that um i actually think that chat gpt or like open ai and anthropic and google they're

391
00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:05.420
all going to come up with like general purpose agents that the um normies my wife is offended

392
00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:09.820
when i say normies but we don't mean it derogatorily it's this word it's too technical

393
00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:10.241
right now.

394
00:18:10.402 --> 00:18:11.104
Yeah, yeah.

395
00:18:11.185 --> 00:18:15.560
So like, I and I think that even most of us will probably end up using one of

396
00:18:15.580 --> 00:18:20.520
those, not because we're being lazy, but because we're prioritizing what we spend our tokens on

397
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:21.423
and our time on.

398
00:18:22.245 --> 00:18:27.260
And so that's actually part of why I wanted to build Cody as an MCP server,

399
00:18:27.401 --> 00:18:30.774
because that'll hook into whatever the big dogs actually come up with.

400
00:18:31.357 --> 00:18:32.140
I interact with Cody

401
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.931
mostly through Claude on my phone, or sometimes through cursor.

402
00:18:37.215 --> 00:18:38.880
And sometimes chat GPT that

403
00:18:38.980 --> 00:18:45.180
They're not, like, reasonably, or as you might expect, they're not as good at MCP as Claude is.

404
00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:58.980
But, yeah, so when they come up with their general purpose agent, I can just hook up Cody and I can still control the shades in my house or the lights or it automatically integrates.

405
00:18:59.100 --> 00:19:00.780
Like, I can actually integrate with anything.

406
00:19:01.282 --> 00:19:03.700
I have a safe way to handle keys and everything.

407
00:19:04.001 --> 00:19:06.160
And it can do, it's so crazy.

408
00:19:06.443 --> 00:19:07.979
I could give you my whole talk right now, but I won't.

409
00:19:09.524 --> 00:19:12.220
I want to know, where do you think this is going to live, this personal assistant?

410
00:19:12.360 --> 00:19:13.200
Is it going to be in your pocket?

411
00:19:13.280 --> 00:19:15.080
Is your phone going to become your open-claw?

412
00:19:15.722 --> 00:19:17.200
Are you going to do tokens locally?

413
00:19:17.300 --> 00:19:20.540
Or are you going to have a little box in your house that's got a couple of GPUs in it?

414
00:19:20.600 --> 00:19:21.380
It's cracking tokens.

415
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:22.340
It's got a local model.

416
00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:28.620
And it's running a friendly, normie open-claw variant or something like that.

417
00:19:28.681 --> 00:19:29.299
So we have an assistant.

418
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:30.380
Where is this going to be for us?

419
00:19:30.581 --> 00:19:31.380
That's a good question.

420
00:19:32.043 --> 00:19:34.800
I think it will be actually very similar to the computer,

421
00:19:34.800 --> 00:19:38.720
where it used to just be at the mainframe

422
00:19:38.821 --> 00:19:41.020
and you'd go to the mainframe and then you could do stuff.

423
00:19:41.180 --> 00:19:44.020
And eventually it got small enough to be in our house.

424
00:19:45.886 --> 00:19:47.900
But the computer that's in your house

425
00:19:48.141 --> 00:19:51.140
is nowhere close to the power of the supercomputers

426
00:19:51.221 --> 00:19:52.600
that these big companies have.

427
00:19:53.067 --> 00:19:53.640
But that's okay.

428
00:19:53.841 --> 00:19:55.520
You don't need it to be that powerful.

429
00:19:56.185 --> 00:19:58.360
And my MacBook is plenty powerful for me.

430
00:19:59.180 --> 00:20:04.600
And I think not having any actual research-backed way

431
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:12.380
to support this opinion, but it makes sense to me that we will be satisfied with the models that

432
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:17.315
we're able to run directly on the device or in our closet at home.

433
00:20:18.117 --> 00:20:19.120
But at the same time,

434
00:20:19.461 --> 00:20:25.160
there are some things that I do where I am using a service, even today, like with not involving AI.

435
00:20:25.881 --> 00:20:27.428
And I think that that will continue.

436
00:20:27.468 --> 00:20:29.880
So like if I've got a really heavy load that I want to do,

437
00:20:29.981 --> 00:20:31.939
then yeah, sure, that'll run elsewhere.

438
00:20:32.981 --> 00:20:36.760
Or another example, like my personal photos,

439
00:20:37.543 --> 00:20:39.640
I used to use Google Photos and now I self-host that.

440
00:20:40.040 --> 00:20:40.599
He stole it.

441
00:20:40.821 --> 00:20:42.635
That's my last app I need to make for my,

442
00:20:43.521 --> 00:20:45.179
I don't use OpenClaw, I've customized it.

443
00:20:46.004 --> 00:20:47.260
But that's one of the last things I want to do,

444
00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:49.520
scrape all my photos down and own them on my machine

445
00:20:49.601 --> 00:20:50.960
and have no dependency there.

446
00:20:51.543 --> 00:20:53.420
I've been really loving, I call it liberating my data

447
00:20:53.662 --> 00:20:56.160
because it was trapped in some SaaS and now it's mine.

448
00:20:56.601 --> 00:20:57.358
I like photos though.

449
00:20:57.540 --> 00:20:59.500
I want them backed up a lot of times,

450
00:20:59.581 --> 00:21:01.958
which I feel like a service would do, and I wouldn't.

451
00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:03.700
Backblaze, yeah, there you go.

452
00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:04.840
Backblaze will do that for me.

453
00:21:05.123 --> 00:21:06.480
I have it all on a Synology NAS,

454
00:21:06.560 --> 00:21:09.380
and they've got an app for managing all of that stuff,

455
00:21:09.561 --> 00:21:11.220
and then I just back it up on Backblaze.

456
00:21:12.742 --> 00:21:15.360
It's actually, honestly, all told,

457
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.900
it ends up being more expensive than Google Photos,

458
00:21:18.585 --> 00:21:19.960
but they're making money other ways,

459
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:24.340
and I'm not entirely jazzed about the way that they're making money on my stuff.

460
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:24.834
Yeah.

461
00:21:25.422 --> 00:21:28.580
So a couple years ago, I pulled it all down, and it's all mine,

462
00:21:28.824 --> 00:21:29.880
And it is still backed up.

463
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:31.020
But, yeah, I'm with you, Robbie.

464
00:21:31.120 --> 00:21:35.040
You definitely want to back up stuff like your photos or your tax documents and whatever.

465
00:21:36.503 --> 00:21:38.100
I don't care as much about my tax documents.

466
00:21:40.881 --> 00:21:41.780
IRS tracks all that.

467
00:21:41.820 --> 00:21:42.160
It's fine.

468
00:21:42.540 --> 00:21:43.660
Yeah, maybe so.

469
00:21:45.203 --> 00:21:46.560
So, yeah, it's exciting times.

470
00:21:46.841 --> 00:21:47.259
It is, yeah.

471
00:21:47.981 --> 00:21:49.720
All right, you want to hit them with some heat?

472
00:21:50.367 --> 00:21:50.780
Let's hear it.

473
00:21:51.344 --> 00:21:51.540
Yeah.

474
00:21:52.001 --> 00:21:53.600
All right, so we've got a giant list of hot takes.

475
00:21:53.660 --> 00:21:54.460
We're not going to do them all.

476
00:21:54.921 --> 00:21:58.280
I think we asked you this one before in passing at some point.

477
00:21:58.362 --> 00:21:59.320
but is React a framework?

478
00:22:00.565 --> 00:22:00.959
I don't care.

479
00:22:03.883 --> 00:22:05.680
Okay, were React server components a mistake?

480
00:22:11.598 --> 00:22:11.980
I don't care.

481
00:22:13.627 --> 00:22:14.340
I don't know.

482
00:22:15.383 --> 00:22:17.240
If you'd asked me that a year ago, I'd say, of course not.

483
00:22:18.241 --> 00:22:21.340
Now, I don't think so.

484
00:22:22.962 --> 00:22:23.680
That's not as sure.

485
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:25.620
Yeah, that's the trend that I'm at.

486
00:22:26.526 --> 00:22:28.458
At this point, I'm not actually using...

487
00:22:29.104 --> 00:22:30.520
I mean, I'm actively using React.

488
00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:34.140
I've got apps that people pay for that are using React.

489
00:22:34.562 --> 00:22:37.080
But my active development, like Kodi, is not using React.

490
00:22:37.280 --> 00:22:39.439
It's using Remix for any of the UI stuff.

491
00:22:40.261 --> 00:22:42.160
So I'm just about Remix right now.

492
00:22:43.642 --> 00:22:44.419
Nice, nice.

493
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:45.940
Hooks, signals, or proxies?

494
00:22:48.166 --> 00:22:48.939
I'm fine with hooks.

495
00:22:49.581 --> 00:22:50.311
I don't know.

496
00:22:50.331 --> 00:22:50.939
Yeah, hooks.

497
00:22:52.184 --> 00:22:53.760
I've actually not used signals.

498
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:54.633
Oh.

499
00:22:55.062 --> 00:22:55.836
Have we reached AGI?

500
00:22:56.827 --> 00:22:56.958
No.

501
00:22:58.264 --> 00:22:58.440
Nice.

502
00:22:58.560 --> 00:22:59.400
The thigh man is back.

503
00:22:59.901 --> 00:23:00.800
What is up?

504
00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:01.500
What's up, thighs?

505
00:23:03.024 --> 00:23:03.780
Our boy thighs.

506
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:04.500
What's going on?

507
00:23:04.620 --> 00:23:05.540
The thigh man is back, guys.

508
00:23:05.601 --> 00:23:07.920
We call him that because that's all you can see of him in the shot.

509
00:23:08.001 --> 00:23:08.879
You can always see him.

510
00:23:09.809 --> 00:23:10.259
I got it.

511
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:10.694
Oh, wait.

512
00:23:10.780 --> 00:23:12.800
You're in the shot, actually, if you lean forward a hair.

513
00:23:13.087 --> 00:23:13.360
Right here?

514
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:13.940
Yeah, you're good.

515
00:23:14.060 --> 00:23:14.177
Yeah.

516
00:23:14.844 --> 00:23:15.700
Come on closer.

517
00:23:15.721 --> 00:23:16.500
How you doing, Ken?

518
00:23:16.661 --> 00:23:16.916
It's good.

519
00:23:17.142 --> 00:23:17.480
How are you?

520
00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:17.900
How you doing?

521
00:23:19.144 --> 00:23:19.720
What's up, dude?

522
00:23:20.443 --> 00:23:21.500
It's so hot back there.

523
00:23:22.001 --> 00:23:23.180
It's hot right here right now.

524
00:23:23.264 --> 00:23:23.460
Yeah.

525
00:23:23.943 --> 00:23:25.079
I'm sweating tokens.

526
00:23:25.822 --> 00:23:28.600
I feel like it was cold yesterday.

527
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:29.091
Yeah.

528
00:23:29.180 --> 00:23:29.536
And now it's hot.

529
00:23:29.741 --> 00:23:30.120
What happened?

530
00:23:30.564 --> 00:23:31.400
That's Florida for you.

531
00:23:32.042 --> 00:23:33.240
No, but I mean, we're inside.

532
00:23:33.460 --> 00:23:33.597
Yeah.

533
00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:38.380
No, but in Florida, the seasons are like that, inside and outside.

534
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:39.327
Okay.

535
00:23:40.063 --> 00:23:41.539
So we were in winter inside yesterday.

536
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:41.740
Exactly.

537
00:23:41.921 --> 00:23:42.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

538
00:23:42.343 --> 00:23:42.556
I got it.

539
00:23:42.780 --> 00:23:43.020
I got it.

540
00:23:44.320 --> 00:23:45.279
Because that's what happens.

541
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:47.480
It's like, are any of you guys from Florida?

542
00:23:48.148 --> 00:23:48.234
No.

543
00:23:48.509 --> 00:23:48.577
No.

544
00:23:49.002 --> 00:23:50.320
So this is a really funny story.

545
00:23:50.422 --> 00:23:51.120
I love telling this story.

546
00:23:51.543 --> 00:23:53.340
So one day in March, I woke up.

547
00:23:53.501 --> 00:23:55.980
It was freezing cold, like 32 degrees, right?

548
00:23:56.482 --> 00:23:57.440
I went for my morning run.

549
00:23:57.784 --> 00:23:58.239
It was great.

550
00:23:58.741 --> 00:23:59.180
That's a joke.

551
00:23:59.303 --> 00:23:59.740
I don't run.

552
00:23:59.941 --> 00:24:01.440
I just went for my morning coffee walk.

553
00:24:03.841 --> 00:24:07.960
And then around 3 o'clock, it was 98 degrees, so I went to the beach.

554
00:24:08.820 --> 00:24:10.139
I went from 32 to, like, 98.

555
00:24:10.542 --> 00:24:11.457
That's pretty crazy.

556
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:12.879
It feels like, but, like, you know what I mean.

557
00:24:13.040 --> 00:24:13.540
That's a wild thing.

558
00:24:13.540 --> 00:24:14.179
That's how it really matters.

559
00:24:14.362 --> 00:24:14.760
I know, yeah.

560
00:24:15.589 --> 00:24:16.140
Don't love that.

561
00:24:17.547 --> 00:24:17.958
I'm with you.

562
00:24:18.141 --> 00:24:18.739
It was so bad.

563
00:24:19.923 --> 00:24:21.180
Give me my Utah weather, man.

564
00:24:22.005 --> 00:24:22.999
What is Utah weather like?

565
00:24:23.661 --> 00:24:30.196
Sometimes it can, like on a single day, your temperature range can go maybe 20 degrees, I think.

566
00:24:31.962 --> 00:24:32.440
That's not bad.

567
00:24:32.740 --> 00:24:33.380
So, yeah.

568
00:24:34.464 --> 00:24:36.360
And you can go like between weeks.

569
00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:37.660
Last week it was freezing.

570
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:39.233
Now we're in the 80s.

571
00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:41.660
So that's really nice.

572
00:24:42.204 --> 00:24:43.616
It can go quite a bit.

573
00:24:44.905 --> 00:24:46.660
But yeah, in one day, that sounds nuts.

574
00:24:47.641 --> 00:24:48.580
Yeah, it was bad.

575
00:24:49.124 --> 00:24:50.040
The body is not built.

576
00:24:50.402 --> 00:24:52.040
I also experienced something worse than that.

577
00:24:52.442 --> 00:24:57.280
I had for Omicron, it was like 15 degrees in the morning in New York.

578
00:24:57.763 --> 00:24:59.680
And then I flew back to Florida later that day.

579
00:24:59.740 --> 00:25:05.640
Like I flew out the morning and it was like 15 degrees, like freezing outside.

580
00:25:05.860 --> 00:25:08.053
So I flew back to Florida and it was like 85 degrees.

581
00:25:09.661 --> 00:25:11.779
The human body is not acclimated for that.

582
00:25:12.701 --> 00:25:18.100
Like I had my like airport fit on where it's like matching pants, matching hoodie, you know, got to be stylish.

583
00:25:19.044 --> 00:25:20.018
TikTok influencers type stuff.

584
00:25:20.180 --> 00:25:20.879
Wait, you didn't do pajamas?

585
00:25:21.042 --> 00:25:22.059
That's like the new cool thing.

586
00:25:22.141 --> 00:25:22.919
No, no, no, no.

587
00:25:22.940 --> 00:25:23.640
I go to the airport now.

588
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:24.980
I'm like, why is everyone in pajamas?

589
00:25:25.062 --> 00:25:25.500
It's not pajamas.

590
00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:26.337
Wait, not just the airport.

591
00:25:26.600 --> 00:25:27.460
That's everywhere, man.

592
00:25:27.681 --> 00:25:32.620
It's the TikTok shop matching sets that are like 60 bucks, but you get them.

593
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.260
They're the comfiest thing ever.

594
00:25:33.321 --> 00:25:34.840
Is that like when you're all in pizza?

595
00:25:35.060 --> 00:25:36.639
You've got a pizza top and a pizza bottom?

596
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:37.760
No, it's solid colors, though.

597
00:25:37.984 --> 00:25:38.360
Oh, solid.

598
00:25:38.563 --> 00:25:39.240
Oh, that's what's cool.

599
00:25:39.541 --> 00:25:40.379
Graphics are out.

600
00:25:41.346 --> 00:25:43.040
It's like the royal blues.

601
00:25:43.762 --> 00:25:46.640
The girls always do like the hot pinks or the hot yellow.

602
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:48.258
They've got embroidery on them, though.

603
00:25:48.502 --> 00:25:49.040
Yes, yes.

604
00:25:49.060 --> 00:25:50.500
They have the custom embroidery stuff.

605
00:25:50.705 --> 00:25:50.900
Exactly.

606
00:25:50.961 --> 00:25:51.975
that's the new trend

607
00:25:52.663 --> 00:25:54.740
you're totally not up to date on all that

608
00:25:54.800 --> 00:25:56.760
I saved so much money by not caring about that

609
00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:57.271
he's like

610
00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:00.240
where's my cigarette tray

611
00:26:00.340 --> 00:26:01.305
oh man

612
00:26:04.802 --> 00:26:05.248
alright

613
00:26:06.241 --> 00:26:07.611
will AI take out

614
00:26:08.981 --> 00:26:10.516
designers or developers first

615
00:26:13.030 --> 00:26:13.713
probably

616
00:26:17.473 --> 00:26:17.735
I don't know

617
00:26:19.206 --> 00:26:20.480
are you a designer or a developer

618
00:26:20.561 --> 00:26:20.968
No, it's fine.

619
00:26:22.864 --> 00:26:23.780
Crocs or flip-flops?

620
00:26:24.643 --> 00:26:25.880
Oh, dude, flip-flops.

621
00:26:26.081 --> 00:26:26.960
Mustaches or beards?

622
00:26:27.886 --> 00:26:28.140
Neither.

623
00:26:28.900 --> 00:26:30.480
Dark factories or light factories?

624
00:26:31.681 --> 00:26:33.920
Factory, like places that you build stuff?

625
00:26:34.060 --> 00:26:35.295
Well, like a dark...

626
00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:37.851
I'm on the light side, I'm not on the dark side.

627
00:26:40.061 --> 00:26:43.680
Dark factories when an agent is writing code and you don't look.

628
00:26:44.122 --> 00:26:45.600
Oh, I've never heard of that.

629
00:26:46.086 --> 00:26:46.760
You've never heard of that?

630
00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:50.020
Oh, man, there's entire companies, entire dark factories where they don't look inside.

631
00:26:50.101 --> 00:26:50.869
That sounds like the Sith.

632
00:26:52.464 --> 00:26:53.560
The dark factory.

633
00:26:54.505 --> 00:26:55.419
You know where that came from?

634
00:26:56.360 --> 00:27:02.240
And that came from somebody who was like, we can't call ourself a vibe code company because it's got a bad reputation.

635
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:03.657
So we got to come up with something cool.

636
00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:05.159
Dark factories.

637
00:27:05.984 --> 00:27:06.700
It depends.

638
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.760
Like, Kodi is totally a dark factory.

639
00:27:09.301 --> 00:27:12.840
If you spend 30 minutes reading that code, you've spent more time than I have.

640
00:27:13.360 --> 00:27:15.000
But that's because it's like personal software.

641
00:27:15.382 --> 00:27:16.940
Like, if I break it, it's no big deal.

642
00:27:17.443 --> 00:27:20.720
But like the Epic Workshop app, yeah, that's a light factory.

643
00:27:21.861 --> 00:27:26.820
I'm definitely using agents for every line of that, but I'm also reviewing the majority of it.

644
00:27:27.422 --> 00:27:29.380
So for Cody, do you have tests?

645
00:27:29.560 --> 00:27:30.520
You've got linting?

646
00:27:30.724 --> 00:27:30.979
Oh, yeah.

647
00:27:31.080 --> 00:27:32.099
Okay, so there's still some bouncing stuff.

648
00:27:32.140 --> 00:27:33.079
You have an agent loop.

649
00:27:33.784 --> 00:27:34.820
That's for the agent, not for me.

650
00:27:34.820 --> 00:27:36.000
Are you a big Ralph guy?

651
00:27:37.249 --> 00:27:37.720
Not a Ralph guy.

652
00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:40.569
What's your AI interaction medium of choice?

653
00:27:44.280 --> 00:27:45.160
Cursor, every day.

654
00:27:45.769 --> 00:27:46.460
I love Cursor.

655
00:27:46.460 --> 00:27:47.499
Cloud agents are amazing.

656
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:48.120
I love Cursor.

657
00:27:48.923 --> 00:27:50.160
I work at OpenCode, so this is weird.

658
00:27:50.684 --> 00:27:51.960
I'm getting docked on my pay.

659
00:27:53.265 --> 00:27:55.400
We're going to take this clip and send it to your coworkers.

660
00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:55.800
Yeah.

661
00:27:55.942 --> 00:27:56.052
Okay.

662
00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:58.519
No, I love Cursor, and I'm trying to make this for OpenCode,

663
00:27:58.840 --> 00:28:00.360
but I love Cursor because when you edit

664
00:28:00.542 --> 00:28:02.000
or when you ask the agent to edit something,

665
00:28:02.280 --> 00:28:05.000
it opens the windows of the code that it edited,

666
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:08.000
and you can visually associate the code as a review.

667
00:28:08.542 --> 00:28:10.396
That was so helpful for me because all these CLIs,

668
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:13.960
it just kind of edits the code, and it's kind of like a dark factory.

669
00:28:14.061 --> 00:28:16.099
It's like this black box that you don't really see into.

670
00:28:16.601 --> 00:28:21.160
But in Cursor, you see the diffs, and you can kind of understand.

671
00:28:22.100 --> 00:28:25.860
And I can kind of vibe check code and be like, hmm, why are we using a use effect?

672
00:28:26.040 --> 00:28:27.060
Nah, that's not right.

673
00:28:27.381 --> 00:28:31.518
Warp has one button that says see diff, and it'll open them up in tabs in Warp.

674
00:28:32.964 --> 00:28:34.380
Are you a paid Warp sponsor?

675
00:28:34.620 --> 00:28:36.980
No, but there's a couple of their features that I really like.

676
00:28:37.020 --> 00:28:37.444
I don't know.

677
00:28:40.704 --> 00:28:41.840
They did sponsor our show, though.

678
00:28:42.422 --> 00:28:45.800
I liked them before that, so it was nice to have a product that we actually like to use.

679
00:28:45.820 --> 00:28:48.820
Yeah, man, it's so hard to not appear a shill.

680
00:28:49.340 --> 00:28:49.451
Yeah.

681
00:28:50.622 --> 00:28:51.520
How dare I like something?

682
00:28:52.222 --> 00:28:53.339
You have an opinion.

683
00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:54.580
You need to make your own.

684
00:28:54.760 --> 00:28:55.700
Join the dark side.

685
00:28:56.823 --> 00:28:58.380
The dark side of the dark factories.

686
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:00.420
All right, Ken, beards or mustaches?

687
00:29:01.166 --> 00:29:01.478
Oh, neither.

688
00:29:02.121 --> 00:29:02.900
Yeah, you asked him that already.

689
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:03.236
Oh, I did.

690
00:29:03.360 --> 00:29:03.659
Oh, snap.

691
00:29:03.840 --> 00:29:03.957
Okay.

692
00:29:04.965 --> 00:29:06.120
I mean, for me, neither.

693
00:29:06.281 --> 00:29:06.999
For you, both.

694
00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:07.709
Hey.

695
00:29:09.403 --> 00:29:11.000
Your tabs in your code editor.

696
00:29:11.601 --> 00:29:11.960
Oh, wait, no.

697
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.040
Your tabs in your browser, top or left?

698
00:29:14.860 --> 00:29:14.945
Top.

699
00:29:16.986 --> 00:29:20.880
I'm like inbox zero personality, so I don't ever have that many in there anyway.

700
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:21.920
What about tabs in terminal?

701
00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:23.940
Are you trying all the new hipster tabs on the side?

702
00:29:24.600 --> 00:29:25.318
Do you use Tmux?

703
00:29:26.546 --> 00:29:26.778
Tmux?

704
00:29:27.384 --> 00:29:28.380
It's Cmux now, dude.

705
00:29:28.783 --> 00:29:30.380
I thought it was Zmux now.

706
00:29:30.601 --> 00:29:32.120
Oh, yeah, it might be Zmux, actually.

707
00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:32.480
I thought it was Amux.

708
00:29:32.743 --> 00:29:33.060
Asianmux.

709
00:29:33.141 --> 00:29:36.159
No, it has to have a B, C, T, Z.

710
00:29:36.764 --> 00:29:37.340
It has to rhyme.

711
00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:37.915
Maybe Memux.

712
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:39.159
We need to do Memux.

713
00:29:40.425 --> 00:29:42.300
I actually don't even have tabs in cursor.

714
00:29:42.561 --> 00:29:43.339
I turn that off.

715
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:44.954
Tabs?

716
00:29:45.343 --> 00:29:45.939
No tabs.

717
00:29:46.290 --> 00:29:46.380
No.

718
00:29:46.760 --> 00:29:51.500
So it's actually, what's funny now is like, I don't even use the IDE anymore because it's

719
00:29:51.520 --> 00:29:52.380
just the agent view anyway.

720
00:29:52.543 --> 00:29:53.357
You use cursor class.

721
00:29:53.641 --> 00:29:56.300
You're happy when that cursor three came out or is it cursor two?

722
00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:56.600
Yeah, three.

723
00:29:57.061 --> 00:29:57.740
Yeah, you're all in.

724
00:29:57.781 --> 00:29:58.340
I was like, yeah.

725
00:29:58.520 --> 00:30:02.260
Well, at first it was like, I kind of want to see the code and stuff, but I haven't done

726
00:30:02.503 --> 00:30:03.879
tab complete all year.

727
00:30:04.300 --> 00:30:04.412
Yeah.

728
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.420
That's, you know, 2026 is pretty wild.

729
00:30:08.904 --> 00:30:09.360
It is wild.

730
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:10.557
Yeah.

731
00:30:11.041 --> 00:30:11.880
Dario was right.

732
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:13.771
Dang it.

733
00:30:14.264 --> 00:30:14.620
Oh, man.

734
00:30:14.885 --> 00:30:15.700
But he was right.

735
00:30:17.483 --> 00:30:19.040
A little bit right.

736
00:30:20.863 --> 00:30:23.320
We still have jobs, but AI is writing all our code.

737
00:30:23.667 --> 00:30:23.840
Yeah.

738
00:30:24.662 --> 00:30:27.120
That has been a theme here is people are like, I don't care anymore.

739
00:30:27.360 --> 00:30:28.620
That's been like the number one answer.

740
00:30:29.381 --> 00:30:36.260
So as an educator, that's like who I've been teaching people how to implement code for all these years.

741
00:30:37.262 --> 00:30:39.100
That's existential for me, obviously.

742
00:30:39.322 --> 00:30:41.600
Like nobody needs to learn it anymore.

743
00:30:41.740 --> 00:30:43.200
Of course, that's overstated.

744
00:30:43.341 --> 00:30:47.340
Like, I think you need to really have those technical chops, but eventually maybe not.

745
00:30:47.760 --> 00:30:58.060
And so that's why I have been pivoting to Epic Product Engineer, where I'm going to teach you the last skill that you need.

746
00:30:58.521 --> 00:31:02.480
Because if agents learn this skill, then our industry just dissolves away.

747
00:31:04.243 --> 00:31:06.080
And that is knowing what to build.

748
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:06.440
What to build.

749
00:31:06.540 --> 00:31:08.560
So that was always the way we made fun of these things at first.

750
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.960
It's like, oh, it's going to take our jobs.

751
00:31:10.020 --> 00:31:12.580
That's if the product manager could even tell me what they want.

752
00:31:13.643 --> 00:31:15.720
effectively, you know, like we spend weeks doing that.

753
00:31:16.040 --> 00:31:20.114
So, yeah, well, I think it's also funny because if you let AI write all your code,

754
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:22.879
okay, it's going to break.

755
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:27.640
But like all these big companies that are like robust and secure,

756
00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:31.000
they're just like having security vulnerabilities and breaking and everything like that.

757
00:31:31.201 --> 00:31:33.700
So like, well, does GitHub have two nines again yet?

758
00:31:33.821 --> 00:31:34.400
No, not yet.

759
00:31:34.522 --> 00:31:35.518
I checked earlier.

760
00:31:36.361 --> 00:31:37.228
It's at 87.86.

761
00:31:39.485 --> 00:31:39.569
Wow.

762
00:31:40.280 --> 00:31:41.780
They actually went down from yesterday.

763
00:31:41.922 --> 00:31:42.100
Yeah.

764
00:31:42.341 --> 00:31:49.860
Yeah, that was the PR merge check thing that was reverting merges, which was crazy.

765
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:50.420
That is crazy.

766
00:31:50.420 --> 00:31:51.400
Should we just write a new GitHub?

767
00:31:51.580 --> 00:31:52.139
That's what I'm hearing.

768
00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:54.120
Oh, that's peer.co, right?

769
00:31:54.489 --> 00:31:54.600
Yeah.

770
00:31:55.463 --> 00:31:58.060
I mean, Cursor acquired a new GitHub.

771
00:31:58.261 --> 00:31:58.640
Graphite.

772
00:31:58.780 --> 00:31:59.960
Why are you using Shopify?

773
00:32:00.281 --> 00:32:00.596
I like it.

774
00:32:00.760 --> 00:32:05.000
We used the peer computing company, code.storage.

775
00:32:05.461 --> 00:32:05.935
That was cool.

776
00:32:06.280 --> 00:32:06.840
That was good.

777
00:32:07.241 --> 00:32:09.658
Oh, is this the one with the website that has the like...

778
00:32:14.315 --> 00:32:15.060
I need to see this.

779
00:32:15.101 --> 00:32:15.960
Cloudflare has artifacts.

780
00:32:16.742 --> 00:32:18.040
Yeah, not architects.

781
00:32:18.704 --> 00:32:19.060
Artifacts.

782
00:32:19.180 --> 00:32:19.879
Artifacts, yeah.

783
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:25.340
And that's get repos on endurable objects, like on workers.

784
00:32:25.560 --> 00:32:26.600
Like, that's pretty wild.

785
00:32:27.084 --> 00:32:27.799
Man, I can't believe.

786
00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:32.140
Actually, I'm the first production deployment of that outside of Cloudflare.

787
00:32:33.487 --> 00:32:34.000
Actually, it's funny.

788
00:32:34.282 --> 00:32:36.000
Actually, my personal blog is on there.

789
00:32:36.141 --> 00:32:39.080
So that's production for my three listeners.

790
00:32:40.687 --> 00:32:43.920
Dylan shared a screenshot of like the usage graph

791
00:32:45.106 --> 00:32:47.700
and there's this giant huge dot in Utah

792
00:32:48.125 --> 00:32:48.226
nice

793
00:32:50.670 --> 00:32:51.819
well we'll see how long that lasts

794
00:32:53.254 --> 00:32:53.820
yeah code

795
00:32:55.028 --> 00:32:56.660
it's really interesting because like

796
00:32:57.206 --> 00:32:58.339
we were talking about this the other day

797
00:32:58.927 --> 00:32:59.534
and like

798
00:33:00.464 --> 00:33:02.640
okay let's say you build a GitHub competitor

799
00:33:02.884 --> 00:33:03.719
right end to end

800
00:33:03.923 --> 00:33:04.920
it looks the exact same as GitHub

801
00:33:05.043 --> 00:33:05.840
but just works better

802
00:33:06.387 --> 00:33:07.319
how do you get people on it?

803
00:33:08.182 --> 00:33:14.520
you really network externalities man i know but like you're not gonna easily convince an entire

804
00:33:14.801 --> 00:33:19.800
org even if you have like nine nines of nine you're not gonna be able to convince like an

805
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.760
org to be like hey come on to my github it's more reliable and better it's like no you're

806
00:33:23.921 --> 00:33:27.560
they're gonna go with microsoft yeah it's gonna suck but that's just have you ever worked with

807
00:33:27.620 --> 00:33:33.260
microsoft yeah i don't know i don't know how people decide anything because like when facebook

808
00:33:33.481 --> 00:33:38.500
killed myspace i was like myspace is better why why are we going to facebook it sucks yeah

809
00:33:39.002 --> 00:33:44.020
and so slopified yeah and i'm like been on facebook recently no no of course not have you

810
00:33:44.641 --> 00:33:53.820
yeah i yeah like it's just sort in passing there's so much ai slot it's like i'm on tiktok a lot we

811
00:33:53.840 --> 00:33:59.320
already have established this and there's a decent amount of ai on there but the stuff on facebook

812
00:33:59.882 --> 00:34:06.180
guys it's so bad like my mom will send me tweets or not tweets uh posts posts i guess

813
00:34:07.362 --> 00:34:15.400
faces i don't know uh books she'll send me books on facebook and uh she's like ryan you will not

814
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:20.720
believe that this happened i'm like mom there's a gemini logo in the bottom right corner and she's

815
00:34:20.740 --> 00:34:25.800
like oh i thought that was the sun oh my goodness oh no going back to your original thing though

816
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:29.456
because this bugged me a long time when I was at agencies where there was a $4 million budget.

817
00:34:30.460 --> 00:34:32.039
This is like early 2000s or whatever.

818
00:34:32.301 --> 00:34:34.140
It felt like wild amounts of money for software.

819
00:34:34.743 --> 00:34:36.480
And we're like, what's going to happen with the $4 million?

820
00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:39.520
We're going to spend $1 million on development and $3 million on marketing.

821
00:34:40.143 --> 00:34:41.700
And I was like, what in the world?

822
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:43.760
And so we would build like a cooking app.

823
00:34:44.461 --> 00:34:46.040
And we would work really hard.

824
00:34:46.100 --> 00:34:46.880
We'd have great designers.

825
00:34:47.060 --> 00:34:49.360
We'd build this cooking app, not ask any users at all.

826
00:34:49.580 --> 00:34:51.960
But then the rest of the money got spent on marketing.

827
00:34:52.343 --> 00:34:54.840
and in weeks, thousands of users

828
00:34:55.184 --> 00:34:56.560
because they were advertising on Facebook.

829
00:34:56.700 --> 00:34:58.400
They were just everywhere blasting people.

830
00:34:58.760 --> 00:34:59.200
And it worked.

831
00:34:59.200 --> 00:35:00.140
If you have a good Instagram ad,

832
00:35:00.443 --> 00:35:01.618
we'll pay for whatever you want.

833
00:35:01.740 --> 00:35:01.760
It worked. It drove me nuts.

834
00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:03.120
I was like, you can basically pay

835
00:35:03.181 --> 00:35:03.938
to get a bunch of users.

836
00:35:04.120 --> 00:35:04.860
You know what's really funny about that?

837
00:35:05.221 --> 00:35:06.140
Oh, this is so funny.

838
00:35:06.623 --> 00:35:08.540
I got Instagram ad this morning.

839
00:35:09.481 --> 00:35:10.280
See, it's working on you.

840
00:35:10.420 --> 00:35:12.239
Look, you're feeding the machine, man.

841
00:35:12.361 --> 00:35:13.080
I know, I know.

842
00:35:13.583 --> 00:35:14.800
I'm a sucker for a good Instagram.

843
00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:17.560
Yeah, so I saw this keyboard, not sponsored.

844
00:35:17.580 --> 00:35:18.420
Wait, you all use Facebook,

845
00:35:18.520 --> 00:35:19.640
but you all use Instagram?

846
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:20.460
They're the same thing now.

847
00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:21.940
My girlfriend's on Instagram, man.

848
00:35:22.061 --> 00:35:23.439
I gotta like, repost, comment,

849
00:35:24.022 --> 00:35:26.460
I actually like, you can go in

850
00:35:26.541 --> 00:35:28.000
and if you're looking at ads, you can be like,

851
00:35:28.120 --> 00:35:30.720
I actually only want to see ads, which is what I prefer.

852
00:35:31.080 --> 00:35:32.719
I like to look through all the dope shit on there.

853
00:35:33.780 --> 00:35:34.266
Oh my goodness.

854
00:35:35.520 --> 00:35:37.840
Yeah, so I saw an ad for this keyboard.

855
00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:41.260
It's a low profile, but like gives like the IBM vibes.

856
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:43.958
And I was like, I'm like, ooh, that looks good.

857
00:35:44.502 --> 00:35:46.580
And I open it up and I'm like, ooh, it's only a hundred bucks.

858
00:35:46.600 --> 00:35:47.919
And I'm like, ooh, and then I bought it.

859
00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:49.000
And then you turned off the bidet.

860
00:35:49.062 --> 00:35:49.458
It worked.

861
00:35:49.667 --> 00:35:49.938
Yeah.

862
00:35:53.184 --> 00:35:58.340
no but instagram ads it's just it's just very rainy from south park so

863
00:36:01.167 --> 00:36:05.940
the worst ones is when you're on instagram stories and you're tapping through and you get an ad

864
00:36:06.040 --> 00:36:10.960
because then you see a fire ad and you're like oh that ad was so good but you can't swipe back

865
00:36:11.040 --> 00:36:15.340
because the ads aren't a part of like the timeline of stories so you're tapping through you're like

866
00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:21.780
wait no like um my finance platform that i use for my stuff it's called sequence it's like a

867
00:36:21.860 --> 00:36:27.420
finance router i saw like an instagram stories ad for it like a long time ago and i could not

868
00:36:27.520 --> 00:36:31.980
find it again i was like scrolling only the ads like show me this ad again i want to be influenced

869
00:36:32.301 --> 00:36:37.260
and then i finally found it after like two months it was crazy dang so there you go that's how you

870
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:42.780
get users you pay for ads instagram ads i hate that yeah me too i hate it too and it's and it

871
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:46.940
works i hate that it works it's really annoying you think good products should rise to the top

872
00:36:47.001 --> 00:36:47.450
and they don't.

873
00:36:48.325 --> 00:36:49.040
It's really rare

874
00:36:49.201 --> 00:36:51.240
to have your good quality software

875
00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:52.420
outbeat somebody

876
00:36:52.420 --> 00:36:53.180
who's got more money

877
00:36:53.242 --> 00:36:53.800
than you in marketing.

878
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:54.519
It's just...

879
00:36:54.560 --> 00:36:55.400
I feel like another thing

880
00:36:55.441 --> 00:36:55.980
as developers,

881
00:36:56.123 --> 00:36:57.020
since we're so aware

882
00:36:57.203 --> 00:36:58.200
of this marketing stuff,

883
00:36:58.280 --> 00:36:59.280
like everyone's doing marketing,

884
00:36:59.822 --> 00:37:00.169
we get mad

885
00:37:00.822 --> 00:37:01.860
when we're getting advertised

886
00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:02.270
to on YouTube.

887
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:03.840
I don't know if this happens

888
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:04.219
to you guys,

889
00:37:04.501 --> 00:37:05.539
but I'm watching a YouTube video

890
00:37:05.580 --> 00:37:06.260
and they're like,

891
00:37:06.683 --> 00:37:07.580
yeah, so this is really great,

892
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:08.620
but first a quick word

893
00:37:08.641 --> 00:37:09.120
from our sponsor.

894
00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:09.760
I'm like, no!

895
00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:10.400
And I'm like,

896
00:37:10.703 --> 00:37:11.595
skip, skip, skip, skip, skip.

897
00:37:12.141 --> 00:37:13.319
Oh man, Theo would hate you

898
00:37:13.462 --> 00:37:14.360
so much right now.

899
00:37:14.543 --> 00:37:15.320
I skip all of Theo's ads.

900
00:37:15.601 --> 00:37:16.779
The little jump ahead button

901
00:37:16.881 --> 00:37:17.940
for like the commonly skipped.

902
00:37:18.225 --> 00:37:18.679
I love that.

903
00:37:18.860 --> 00:37:19.760
It's the right arrow on the keyboard.

904
00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:20.087
Yeah.

905
00:37:20.640 --> 00:37:21.130
15 or 30 seconds.

906
00:37:21.661 --> 00:37:22.260
You're like, boop, boop.

907
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:22.580
Oh, good.

908
00:37:22.620 --> 00:37:22.860
I'm done.

909
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:24.216
And then you see the little bar at the bottom,

910
00:37:24.640 --> 00:37:25.280
the ting, ting, ting.

911
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:26.360
And I'm like, ah, there we go.

912
00:37:26.421 --> 00:37:27.100
Back to the content.

913
00:37:27.940 --> 00:37:30.160
There's podcast tools that will do that for you.

914
00:37:30.180 --> 00:37:31.860
Also in the software,

915
00:37:32.020 --> 00:37:34.440
they'll identify the ad and just skip right past it.

916
00:37:34.902 --> 00:37:35.957
Don't do it on this one.

917
00:37:38.241 --> 00:37:39.900
Lesson to all the ads on this one.

918
00:37:40.160 --> 00:37:40.273
Yeah.

919
00:37:40.461 --> 00:37:41.519
Click all the links, please.

920
00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:42.840
Oh, wait, there are none right now.

921
00:37:43.262 --> 00:37:44.460
So there's a link up there.

922
00:37:44.503 --> 00:37:44.740
Oh, yeah.

923
00:37:44.882 --> 00:37:45.118
Clerk.

924
00:37:45.461 --> 00:37:49.700
everyone go to clerk and tell them that whiskey web and whatnot sent you yeah all right or that

925
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:54.600
jason sent you whatever or that ryan sent you yeah don't tell them that i sent you i guess

926
00:37:56.625 --> 00:38:01.800
i don't know it just had to be different yeah i came to your site and it was not kent

927
00:38:05.350 --> 00:38:08.480
did i tell you guys about the video i did with clerk a while ago

928
00:38:09.424 --> 00:38:13.399
no the apple vision pro i saw i didn't watch the whole video but i saw that i was like this is

929
00:38:13.620 --> 00:38:19.100
hilarious so you're familiar with the apple vision pro right yeah so i was like this has an amazing

930
00:38:19.321 --> 00:38:23.240
it's an m5 chip it's got like i think two of them for like the spatial computing and like the

931
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:28.040
computer itself i'm like hmm can i build like develop an app on this like only on the apple

932
00:38:28.100 --> 00:38:32.120
vision pro and the clerk reached out to me and they're like yes let's let's do it so they sent

933
00:38:32.140 --> 00:38:36.819
me an apple vision pro and i tried it that was the most excruciating two hours of my life there

934
00:38:37.180 --> 00:38:37.960
There are so many issues.

935
00:38:38.100 --> 00:38:45.700
First off, the screen recording or the spatial recording for the Vision Pro cut off in like 15 minutes.

936
00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:50.340
So I have like two and a half hours of me just on the camera.

937
00:38:50.780 --> 00:38:51.559
That's always a bummer.

938
00:38:52.040 --> 00:38:52.151
Yeah.

939
00:38:52.844 --> 00:38:53.840
I look so dumb.

940
00:38:54.742 --> 00:38:57.459
But then the app just didn't work because there's no native terminal.

941
00:38:58.280 --> 00:38:59.909
I had to use GitHub Codespaces.

942
00:39:02.982 --> 00:39:04.420
The internet kept dropping.

943
00:39:05.082 --> 00:39:05.636
It wasn't my Wi-Fi.

944
00:39:06.970 --> 00:39:08.220
it was just a horrible experience

945
00:39:08.725 --> 00:39:09.979
but the one part that did work

946
00:39:10.303 --> 00:39:11.699
was like the clerk integrations

947
00:39:12.123 --> 00:39:13.191
I was like, man, clerk got one

948
00:39:14.481 --> 00:39:16.380
clicked and it worked fine with everything else

949
00:39:16.521 --> 00:39:18.200
we'll get to the good parts

950
00:39:18.281 --> 00:39:19.700
and make it look like it was seamless

951
00:39:20.729 --> 00:39:21.900
yeah, clerk was amazing

952
00:39:22.082 --> 00:39:23.256
but it was so funny

953
00:39:23.903 --> 00:39:25.760
it's like how the money have fallen

954
00:39:27.010 --> 00:39:28.260
I've been Android my whole life

955
00:39:28.462 --> 00:39:30.398
I got this phone a year ago, I hate it

956
00:39:30.889 --> 00:39:31.160
really?

957
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:32.660
we were talking about this the other night

958
00:39:33.748 --> 00:39:35.460
it's the software, it's the problem

959
00:39:36.389 --> 00:39:37.459
Are you on liquid ass?

960
00:39:38.461 --> 00:39:38.717
Yeah.

961
00:39:39.521 --> 00:39:43.960
Dude, I resisted for so long, but I was like, I don't want to fight against this.

962
00:39:44.021 --> 00:39:44.800
Let's just do it, whatever.

963
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:50.439
I got hit with the overnight update where I went to bed with my nice, I think, iOS 18,

964
00:39:50.860 --> 00:39:52.360
and I'm like, life is good.

965
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:53.380
The world is balanced.

966
00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:56.280
And I wake up, and it was like 2,000 or whatever we're on now.

967
00:39:56.300 --> 00:40:00.480
It was like 26, and I open up, and I was like, wait, there's traumatic aberration.

968
00:40:01.186 --> 00:40:01.540
Oh, no.

969
00:40:01.881 --> 00:40:02.720
I see glassmorphism.

970
00:40:02.922 --> 00:40:02.986
No!

971
00:40:03.542 --> 00:40:06.180
The notifications on iOS suck.

972
00:40:06.401 --> 00:40:07.099
They are the worst.

973
00:40:07.542 --> 00:40:10.480
I'm losing so many things because I use those kind of like to-dos,

974
00:40:10.661 --> 00:40:12.200
and Android let me really hang on to them,

975
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:13.540
and I could go see the history of them.

976
00:40:13.801 --> 00:40:15.120
It's like way more figured out.

977
00:40:15.342 --> 00:40:16.820
And iOS, I'm constantly losing stuff.

978
00:40:17.161 --> 00:40:18.780
I'll swipe one, and the whole group goes away.

979
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:20.780
And I'm like, no, I knew there was a button to do that.

980
00:40:20.861 --> 00:40:21.679
I don't want that at all.

981
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.579
Do you have a phone that has Apple Intelligence on it?

982
00:40:23.860 --> 00:40:23.925
AI.

983
00:40:24.261 --> 00:40:24.980
I turned it all off.

984
00:40:25.120 --> 00:40:25.659
I turned it all off.

985
00:40:25.740 --> 00:40:28.780
The Apple summaries, that scared me one time.

986
00:40:29.201 --> 00:40:31.560
My girlfriend texted me like a bunch of things in sequence,

987
00:40:32.444 --> 00:40:36.500
in the summary was, I got hit by a car, assignment due,

988
00:40:37.161 --> 00:40:38.440
what should we do for dinner tonight?

989
00:40:39.765 --> 00:40:43.600
And I'm like, oh, like a leaf got hit by a car or something like that.

990
00:40:43.680 --> 00:40:46.380
And I'm like, my heart rate was like, I'm like, holy cow,

991
00:40:46.600 --> 00:40:47.620
how does Apple mess that up?

992
00:40:47.640 --> 00:40:48.560
How are you so bad?

993
00:40:48.740 --> 00:40:50.900
How are they so bad?

994
00:40:50.980 --> 00:40:51.398
I don't know.

995
00:40:51.540 --> 00:40:52.619
And so slow to adopt AI.

996
00:40:52.660 --> 00:40:53.600
Because they're a hardware company.

997
00:40:55.466 --> 00:40:56.260
The hardware is good.

998
00:40:56.580 --> 00:40:57.140
The hardware is fine.

999
00:40:57.140 --> 00:40:57.620
The hardware is good.

1000
00:40:57.660 --> 00:40:58.900
Well, I've always loved their scrolling.

1001
00:40:59.160 --> 00:41:01.040
That's one thing that Android never could compete.

1002
00:41:01.463 --> 00:41:04.120
is that iPhone has the vibe where when you scroll,

1003
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:06.180
it feels like you're playing air hockey with a friend.

1004
00:41:06.522 --> 00:41:06.700
Yeah.

1005
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:08.700
You know, there's this glide and this softness

1006
00:41:08.781 --> 00:41:10.680
to the deceleration of a scroll

1007
00:41:10.841 --> 00:41:13.040
and the way that they always commit a CPU

1008
00:41:13.342 --> 00:41:15.220
to that computational behavior.

1009
00:41:15.846 --> 00:41:16.860
So it's always good.

1010
00:41:16.922 --> 00:41:17.400
It is smooth.

1011
00:41:17.805 --> 00:41:18.580
It's really nice.

1012
00:41:18.640 --> 00:41:20.420
And every time I go back to Android, I'm just reminded.

1013
00:41:20.680 --> 00:41:20.780
Yeah.

1014
00:41:21.104 --> 00:41:22.200
But I do miss my Pixel Fold.

1015
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:23.460
We were talking about that last night too.

1016
00:41:23.621 --> 00:41:24.860
I loved that device.

1017
00:41:25.102 --> 00:41:27.240
It was pretty thick and it didn't matter.

1018
00:41:27.666 --> 00:41:28.320
It was awesome.

1019
00:41:28.520 --> 00:41:29.300
Have you seen the rumors?

1020
00:41:29.562 --> 00:41:30.500
We talked about this last night.

1021
00:41:30.701 --> 00:41:36.859
but like the rumors of the uh apple fold i saw that apparently it has no crease and no uh

1022
00:41:37.381 --> 00:41:43.140
notch i don't know what would you call that like the crease i guess no no there's no like visible

1023
00:41:43.281 --> 00:41:48.180
crease and there's no like bump yeah there's no little ripple yeah ripple i don't know what it's

1024
00:41:48.180 --> 00:41:55.640
called no um it's a divot or a dimple dimple yeah long dimple well that reminds me of all the funny

1025
00:41:55.720 --> 00:42:00.278
words of like phones remember you call the bottom of your phone it's chin oh yeah that's the chin

1026
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:04.840
of the phone yeah that's what it's called and then there was the unibrow on the uh or the bunny ears

1027
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.560
whatever you say came out with the bunny ears on it and so it was either called the unibrow or the

1028
00:42:09.580 --> 00:42:13.560
bunny ears oh man so it had a chin and it had ears and i was just like put a couple eyes on that

1029
00:42:13.620 --> 00:42:16.760
iphone x and it looks just like a bunny okay boomer like

1030
00:42:20.327 --> 00:42:27.340
my first ever phone was the iphone 4s that's a good one the camera on that device uh mkbhd did

1031
00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:33.560
a comparison of every uh iphone photo and the 4s holds up like really well like compared to like

1032
00:42:33.620 --> 00:42:39.920
nowadays um i think some of the low light stuff it still suffers but like still like i was really

1033
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:46.820
impressed on how well the size of that device was so good i had a moto x oh yeah like it was

1034
00:42:46.820 --> 00:42:48.880
It had this really nice curve on the back.

1035
00:42:48.940 --> 00:42:49.960
It felt so good in the hand.

1036
00:42:50.080 --> 00:42:51.840
It was like four inches or something.

1037
00:42:52.001 --> 00:42:52.940
Oh, it was so good.

1038
00:42:53.200 --> 00:42:53.760
Palm had that too.

1039
00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:54.460
The Palm devices.

1040
00:42:54.620 --> 00:42:56.340
The Palm Pre had like a little curve on it.

1041
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:56.660
It was nice.

1042
00:42:56.900 --> 00:43:00.560
We need to bring back flip phones because I had my dad's flip phone for like two years.

1043
00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:00.811
G1.

1044
00:43:01.340 --> 00:43:04.120
And I love to be able to just slam that.

1045
00:43:04.381 --> 00:43:04.979
That's the Fold.

1046
00:43:05.302 --> 00:43:05.899
The Fold had that.

1047
00:43:05.940 --> 00:43:06.780
It was so satisfying.

1048
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:07.340
I'd be reading something.

1049
00:43:08.161 --> 00:43:09.340
Clap it shut and put it in your pocket.

1050
00:43:09.340 --> 00:43:09.900
Can you aim or fold it?

1051
00:43:10.404 --> 00:43:11.477
I didn't, but you could.

1052
00:43:12.060 --> 00:43:12.171
Boom!

1053
00:43:12.885 --> 00:43:14.020
I would take my flip phone.

1054
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:16.640
I'd hold it like this and then flip it like you do.

1055
00:43:16.820 --> 00:43:19.760
like little toys or whatever, and it goes, and it would open up,

1056
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.380
and I'd catch it, and like, hello.

1057
00:43:21.700 --> 00:43:23.660
So you were like secret walking.

1058
00:43:24.124 --> 00:43:24.560
Agent Kent.

1059
00:43:24.560 --> 00:43:25.180
What's up, guys?

1060
00:43:27.705 --> 00:43:28.260
That's awesome.

1061
00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:29.620
That's so funny.

1062
00:43:29.680 --> 00:43:31.500
I liked the races to smaller phones, too.

1063
00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:32.740
You know, like that was the whole thing.

1064
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:34.472
It was like smaller, bigger, smaller, faster.

1065
00:43:35.780 --> 00:43:37.159
And I was like, yeah, that makes way more sense.

1066
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:41.060
I saw a sketch where, like, they played it out, you know,

1067
00:43:41.261 --> 00:43:43.820
50 years in the future, and they're like, let me get my phone.

1068
00:43:44.140 --> 00:43:46.119
Oh, actually, no, Zoolander did that, too.

1069
00:43:46.240 --> 00:43:46.440
Zoolander did that.

1070
00:43:46.481 --> 00:43:47.098
It was so tiny.

1071
00:43:47.460 --> 00:43:48.240
I was just like, hello.

1072
00:43:48.240 --> 00:43:48.920
He flipped it out, too.

1073
00:43:49.601 --> 00:43:51.140
What is this, a phone for ants?

1074
00:43:54.221 --> 00:44:00.540
I remember watching when I was a kid, not now, but, like, I remember watching when I was a kid, like, a week ago.

1075
00:44:01.905 --> 00:44:03.160
I was just going to make that joke.

1076
00:44:03.267 --> 00:44:03.480
I know.

1077
00:44:04.123 --> 00:44:05.240
I saw your eyes.

1078
00:44:05.561 --> 00:44:06.900
I was like, what the hell is this?

1079
00:44:06.941 --> 00:44:07.620
How do you get Mia's eyes?

1080
00:44:09.285 --> 00:44:09.877
I've got the size.

1081
00:44:10.804 --> 00:44:12.040
I'm not this cool to be wearing those.

1082
00:44:12.100 --> 00:44:18.940
But I remember like the futuristic iPhone 31 videos where it would be like flying.

1083
00:44:19.423 --> 00:44:19.720
Oh, no.

1084
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:25.740
The best one was where you would drop the phone and the phone would like have like four little boosters on the sides of it.

1085
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.140
And it was like.

1086
00:44:28.164 --> 00:44:29.298
And then it would like come back up to you.

1087
00:44:30.002 --> 00:44:32.720
And then the one where like extended out into like a tablet.

1088
00:44:33.824 --> 00:44:35.020
But there's TVs that do that.

1089
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.440
But it was just all these like weird, like random like designs.

1090
00:44:38.500 --> 00:44:40.580
And I'm like, what were we on back then?

1091
00:44:41.646 --> 00:44:43.980
I want the TV that rolls up.

1092
00:44:44.060 --> 00:44:44.600
Have you seen that?

1093
00:44:45.023 --> 00:44:45.276
Yes.

1094
00:44:45.681 --> 00:44:47.600
Just like goes into the furniture.

1095
00:44:48.080 --> 00:44:48.700
Like, hell yeah.

1096
00:44:48.902 --> 00:44:49.100
Yeah.

1097
00:44:49.300 --> 00:44:50.340
That goes good with your flip phone.

1098
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.400
You spin it up in the air while it's unwrapping.

1099
00:44:52.540 --> 00:44:55.060
You unwrap the TV, you catch it, and then you've got a presentation.

1100
00:44:57.040 --> 00:44:58.080
You want a slide deck?

1101
00:44:59.128 --> 00:44:59.297
Boom.

1102
00:44:59.903 --> 00:45:00.438
You're in the elevator.

1103
00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:01.640
Watch my elevator pitch.

1104
00:45:04.405 --> 00:45:05.060
That's so funny.

1105
00:45:06.911 --> 00:45:07.240
All right.

1106
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:07.874
Did we miss any?

1107
00:45:08.240 --> 00:45:09.198
I don't think we missed any hot takes.

1108
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:09.760
Did I get your hot takes?

1109
00:45:10.066 --> 00:45:10.740
You got the hot takes.

1110
00:45:10.740 --> 00:45:11.139
Yeah, more or less.

1111
00:45:11.260 --> 00:45:11.819
That was really fun.

1112
00:45:11.900 --> 00:45:14.320
We even got the iPhone versus Android hot take in there.

1113
00:45:14.580 --> 00:45:14.820
Yeah, we did.

1114
00:45:15.222 --> 00:45:15.592
We did.

1115
00:45:16.040 --> 00:45:18.800
I cannot wait to get my hands on an Android again.

1116
00:45:20.424 --> 00:45:21.360
Well, thanks for stopping by.

1117
00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:22.959
I think we've got someone in the dugout.

1118
00:45:23.121 --> 00:45:24.020
Oh, look, we've got a Tanner.

1119
00:45:24.321 --> 00:45:25.676
Oh, you want me to go grab him?

1120
00:45:26.181 --> 00:45:26.800
A wild Tanner has appeared.

1121
00:45:27.040 --> 00:45:27.177
Yeah.

1122
00:45:27.684 --> 00:45:28.019
Send him in.

1123
00:45:28.180 --> 00:45:28.360
See you guys.

1124
00:45:28.540 --> 00:45:28.780
All right.

1125
00:45:29.026 --> 00:45:29.460
Bye, guys.

1126
00:45:29.520 --> 00:45:29.860
Thank you.

1127
00:45:29.860 --> 00:45:30.600
My man is leaving.

1128
00:45:34.326 --> 00:45:34.940
So hot.

1129
00:45:35.322 --> 00:45:36.197
It is really hot.

1130
00:45:36.500 --> 00:45:36.700
Oh, man.

1131
00:45:38.868 --> 00:45:42.020
Put on the headphones there to your left and everything else will just flow through.

1132
00:45:42.162 --> 00:45:42.273
Yeah.

1133
00:45:43.785 --> 00:45:44.819
We're just going to watch you work.

1134
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:50.532
Headphones, it'll all go.

1135
00:45:56.283 --> 00:45:58.100
It's like flying in a plane.

1136
00:45:58.984 --> 00:45:59.420
A little bit.

1137
00:45:59.501 --> 00:46:02.580
But once you put these on, you'll see the magic that is happening.

1138
00:46:03.040 --> 00:46:03.779
Once the headphones are on.

1139
00:46:03.820 --> 00:46:04.620
You can hear so much better.

1140
00:46:04.802 --> 00:46:05.137
How's that?

1141
00:46:05.424 --> 00:46:05.960
Oh, baby.

1142
00:46:06.100 --> 00:46:06.208
Yeah.

1143
00:46:06.922 --> 00:46:08.069
How are you doing, dude?

1144
00:46:10.006 --> 00:46:10.380
I'm good.

1145
00:46:11.044 --> 00:46:11.760
Welcome to the show.

1146
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:14.960
We've been doing hot takes and also just a little bit about today.

1147
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:17.020
So I don't know if you want to chat about what you're doing.

1148
00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:17.819
Yeah, what you're working on.

1149
00:46:18.645 --> 00:46:19.360
What am I working on?

1150
00:46:19.842 --> 00:46:21.820
Oh, I'm working on something salacious.

1151
00:46:23.224 --> 00:46:26.320
I don't even know how much I want to share, but salaciously sick.

1152
00:46:26.401 --> 00:46:26.760
I love it.

1153
00:46:27.101 --> 00:46:34.920
I think the term I'm coming up for is like polymorphic UI libraries.

1154
00:46:36.423 --> 00:46:45.360
like the almost like a ui library or libraries in general that are able to um almost like an agent

1155
00:46:45.541 --> 00:46:52.200
they can like uh start off as like a minimum viable thing and then as you needed to do more

1156
00:46:52.701 --> 00:47:00.380
it will like not self-heal but like self-grow pi ui into like generative ui and stuff no not

1157
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:02.520
generative UI because this is way more deterministic

1158
00:47:02.601 --> 00:47:03.189
like libraries

1159
00:47:04.707 --> 00:47:05.938
that need to be

1160
00:47:07.293 --> 00:47:07.839
you don't want

1161
00:47:08.223 --> 00:47:09.820
non-determinism in something like

1162
00:47:10.041 --> 00:47:10.404
a UI

1163
00:47:12.481 --> 00:47:14.400
library or a router or something like that.

1164
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:15.410
Have you tried Pythe Harness?

1165
00:47:16.036 --> 00:47:16.440
I have not.

1166
00:47:16.600 --> 00:47:18.420
It comes with four tools and

1167
00:47:18.642 --> 00:47:20.460
it can teach itself new tools.

1168
00:47:20.600 --> 00:47:21.473
It can build itself features.

1169
00:47:22.684 --> 00:47:24.240
It discovers them or you articulate

1170
00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:24.403
them.

1171
00:47:24.423 --> 00:47:25.400
It forgets about them every day.

1172
00:47:26.763 --> 00:47:27.860
It can't forget about them.

1173
00:47:28.443 --> 00:47:29.191
It's an AI harness that

1174
00:47:30.321 --> 00:47:34.680
starts very blank and it's able to teach itself and create its own skills and create its own

1175
00:47:34.720 --> 00:47:38.760
plugins and self-modify and self-heal itself yeah so you can open another instance of pi

1176
00:47:39.162 --> 00:47:43.080
to teach another instance of pi something new that's either permanent or temporary or whatever

1177
00:47:43.100 --> 00:47:47.640
it's sounds kind of like you're making pi ui or something that is has this strong enough base

1178
00:47:47.981 --> 00:47:53.860
that the tools and the the way that it's been built it can uh explore create its own new things

1179
00:47:54.041 --> 00:47:58.400
and i don't know just kind of build itself out based on needs like imagine that but less

1180
00:47:59.543 --> 00:48:05.400
more determinism for things that shouldn't be like you don't want at that much wild wild west

1181
00:48:05.982 --> 00:48:10.840
uh you want consistency yeah so um yeah i'm messing around with that lately that sounds

1182
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:15.440
awesome it's very exciting does that mean that okay so i like to think of a lot of the ways the

1183
00:48:15.580 --> 00:48:21.260
ui libraries have been evolving is headless skinless boneless and lifeless the boneless

1184
00:48:21.340 --> 00:48:27.580
ones are the best right especially with a good sauce yeah and so it kind of sounds like you're

1185
00:48:27.580 --> 00:48:34.620
building one that's going to be able to do yeah he's whispering to us but yeah good to take it

1186
00:48:34.961 --> 00:48:38.380
um it kind of sounds like you're building something that um is going to have all four

1187
00:48:38.380 --> 00:48:44.380
of those so it can it can deliver functions that enable behavior it can also figure out what markup

1188
00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:48.560
you need or is it is it learning from the markup like do you need to bring the bones and it fills

1189
00:48:48.681 --> 00:48:53.080
everything out or do you bring like how does it work in the boneless skinless lifeless where you've

1190
00:48:53.100 --> 00:48:55.060
got a separation of concerns there.

1191
00:48:55.441 --> 00:48:56.799
I think there's a little bit more

1192
00:48:57.022 --> 00:48:59.060
determinism to this particular breed

1193
00:48:59.181 --> 00:49:01.100
of library that I'm looking at because

1194
00:49:01.787 --> 00:49:03.000
I don't want to build a library that

1195
00:49:03.161 --> 00:49:05.200
ends up giving every single

1196
00:49:05.503 --> 00:49:07.000
user or every single instance

1197
00:49:07.323 --> 00:49:09.160
that uses it something totally

1198
00:49:09.282 --> 00:49:10.460
snowflake and unique.

1199
00:49:11.325 --> 00:49:12.219
Think of it more like

1200
00:49:12.623 --> 00:49:13.490
we know

1201
00:49:15.225 --> 00:49:16.940
the minimum and maximum representation

1202
00:49:17.122 --> 00:49:18.977
of what this library needs to do

1203
00:49:20.170 --> 00:49:21.020
and instead of shipping

1204
00:49:21.020 --> 00:49:22.940
the maximum representation of that to

1205
00:49:23.060 --> 00:49:30.320
users or to their agents, and then relying on older tools that we've had, like dead code

1206
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.947
elimination or whatever, to prune it down.

1207
00:49:33.489 --> 00:49:37.420
Instead, you ship the minimum version of that library,

1208
00:49:38.461 --> 00:49:45.360
but you have a plan and a scaffold of what other pieces you can bring in, almost like a plug-in

1209
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:48.328
system, but very modular and written for AI.

1210
00:49:49.451 --> 00:49:52.600
And then as your agent tries to use the library,

1211
00:49:54.204 --> 00:49:59.440
it will run into certain features or certain things that it needs that are not yet implemented.

1212
00:49:59.980 --> 00:50:07.020
And instead of trying to just kind of like write those Wild Wild West style and just dream up something new,

1213
00:50:07.461 --> 00:50:11.319
we've already prescriptively given it the new, like the pathway that it can take.

1214
00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:11.652
I see.

1215
00:50:12.041 --> 00:50:22.620
And it grows into the, you know, it is a snowflake, but we have pre-designed the snowflake and it kind of grows into only what it needs.

1216
00:50:22.640 --> 00:50:22.920
Yeah.

1217
00:50:23.020 --> 00:50:23.441
Okay.

1218
00:50:23.461 --> 00:50:25.642
So I really like this growing into, that's exactly what I was thinking about.

1219
00:50:25.662 --> 00:50:26.823
So let's say I have a select element.

1220
00:50:27.143 --> 00:50:29.545
And at first the design team has very basic select element.

1221
00:50:29.565 --> 00:50:30.626
There's no groups on it.

1222
00:50:30.926 --> 00:50:32.828
There's no searching.

1223
00:50:32.868 --> 00:50:35.069
There's just, it's a very minimal select element.

1224
00:50:35.229 --> 00:50:49.600
However, if as I go adorn it with maybe more props, adding more options, asking it to do more features, you're saying it would discover that these are needed, pull from the library, which has already solved those particular features and bring them into the bundle on demand as you use them.

1225
00:50:49.740 --> 00:50:50.019
Yes.

1226
00:50:50.343 --> 00:50:50.860
That's awesome.

1227
00:50:51.160 --> 00:50:53.723
It's kind of a maybe it's kind of a gross way to think about it.

1228
00:50:53.783 --> 00:50:54.864
And I'm not a medical guy.

1229
00:50:54.924 --> 00:51:07.435
But I know like when they when they like grow organic matter, you know, they don't just like plop it onto a surface and just like feed it like they usually needed to have structure.

1230
00:51:07.755 --> 00:51:13.720
And so it's almost like you're you're giving scaffolding to something that is relatively organic.

1231
00:51:14.523 --> 00:51:19.440
You don't want it to necessarily grow beyond that or kind of grow out weird ways.

1232
00:51:20.482 --> 00:51:26.020
You're providing a very specific substrate and scaffold for something that is organic.

1233
00:51:26.700 --> 00:51:31.079
And as it needs to evolve, it will within the constraints that you've given it.

1234
00:51:31.721 --> 00:51:50.600
And you can have some level of determinism for, you know, millions and millions of people using the library that no matter what corners of this substrate it grows into, each individual piece that it grows into will be the same piece across all of your users.

1235
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:50.940
Gotcha.

1236
00:51:51.080 --> 00:51:57.420
So you have to solve everything then so that every use case can be extracted from your library that you're building.

1237
00:51:58.207 --> 00:51:58.420
Yeah.

1238
00:51:58.601 --> 00:52:00.920
Otherwise, then you're not in determinism.

1239
00:52:01.381 --> 00:52:01.643
Right.

1240
00:52:01.944 --> 00:52:02.266
Yeah.

1241
00:52:03.514 --> 00:52:04.420
It's a very new idea.

1242
00:52:05.262 --> 00:52:10.680
I like it because, yeah, usually people go grab something off the shelf and it's like the ultimate, you know, carousel.

1243
00:52:11.221 --> 00:52:12.499
And the last select you'll ever need.

1244
00:52:12.660 --> 00:52:13.704
The last select you'll ever need.

1245
00:52:13.724 --> 00:52:17.460
And you're like, no, actually, this will be the most basic select you currently need.

1246
00:52:17.820 --> 00:52:17.942
Yeah.

1247
00:52:17.962 --> 00:52:19.800
And then if you ask it for more, it does more.

1248
00:52:20.361 --> 00:52:20.561
Yeah.

1249
00:52:20.962 --> 00:52:33.540
And like the pieces that need to be deterministic should be and the pieces that don't should just not be implemented because you want your agent to invent things that are unique and suited to your needs.

1250
00:52:33.981 --> 00:52:42.160
But you don't want it to reinvent state management or a state machine that has been true and proven for many, many years.

1251
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:46.080
It's like when you're building a carousel, this is a state machine you should use.

1252
00:52:46.301 --> 00:52:46.502
Yeah.

1253
00:52:46.542 --> 00:52:47.467
So would it go ahead?

1254
00:52:47.528 --> 00:52:47.689
Yeah.

1255
00:52:47.830 --> 00:52:47.970
Sorry.

1256
00:52:47.990 --> 00:52:49.660
I was gonna say, would this like suggest,

1257
00:52:50.162 --> 00:52:55.060
like, if I'm like, I want to build this thing and it's like, I see you wanted to do it this way,

1258
00:52:55.160 --> 00:52:56.445
but you might want to add this feature.

1259
00:52:56.626 --> 00:53:00.240
Like, will it be smart about like, you might want this extra

1260
00:53:00.340 --> 00:53:02.148
stuff or is it just like, you still need to tell it?

1261
00:53:02.449 --> 00:53:02.710
Okay.

1262
00:53:02.891 --> 00:53:03.232
I don't know.

1263
00:53:03.494 --> 00:53:04.980
I mean, we would have to

1264
00:53:05.100 --> 00:53:07.610
know everything that we know that it could do.

1265
00:53:07.850 --> 00:53:08.132
Yeah.

1266
00:53:08.192 --> 00:53:10.280
There's the possibility to provide that

1267
00:53:10.701 --> 00:53:13.329
in context to, you know, your agent.

1268
00:53:13.369 --> 00:53:16.760
And so it would say, I know that I have all these things

1269
00:53:16.820 --> 00:53:17.622
available to me.

1270
00:53:17.642 --> 00:53:22.877
Um, so I could recommend them to my human if I want.

1271
00:53:22.897 --> 00:53:23.118
Yeah.

1272
00:53:23.359 --> 00:53:23.840
I think that's

1273
00:53:23.900 --> 00:53:24.725
definitely possible.

1274
00:53:25.268 --> 00:53:25.489
Yeah.

1275
00:53:25.509 --> 00:53:26.253
I think that would be cool.

1276
00:53:26.273 --> 00:53:27.520
Cause I feel like that's the big problem

1277
00:53:27.620 --> 00:53:29.489
that everybody has is like, I don't know what to build.

1278
00:53:29.670 --> 00:53:30.995
Like nobody knows what they want.

1279
00:53:31.859 --> 00:53:31.940
Um,

1280
00:53:32.641 --> 00:53:36.555
that really is the last problem, uh, that we're going to have.

1281
00:53:36.696 --> 00:53:37.840
And I think that we should keep

1282
00:53:38.020 --> 00:53:38.743
for ourselves.

1283
00:53:39.265 --> 00:53:40.850
It's just, it's just knowing what to build.

1284
00:53:41.372 --> 00:53:41.593
Yeah.

1285
00:53:41.613 --> 00:53:43.580
So I don't think an agent is going

1286
00:53:43.660 --> 00:53:45.186
to be able to tell us what to do there.

1287
00:53:45.206 --> 00:53:49.100
Um, and, and, and nor, nor should it because the second

1288
00:53:49.160 --> 00:53:53.400
that an agent thinks that it, that it doesn't need us to tell it what to build, it's just going to

1289
00:53:53.420 --> 00:53:55.486
go build whatever the heck it wants.

1290
00:53:55.546 --> 00:53:56.289
And that's dangerous.

1291
00:53:56.489 --> 00:54:00.080
So, um, yeah, I think that, uh, in,

1292
00:54:00.160 --> 00:54:04.660
in a microcosm, you know, you could say that the agent should know what it needs to build

1293
00:54:05.405 --> 00:54:07.259
based on what you have asked me to do.

1294
00:54:08.802 --> 00:54:11.500
You know, you say, I want to build a website that, you know,

1295
00:54:11.801 --> 00:54:15.720
that is for like realty or something like that, properties.

1296
00:54:16.460 --> 00:54:18.640
Yeah, there's probably going to be a carousel on there.

1297
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:22.800
And it could make an executive decision to bring that in just automatically.

1298
00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:23.520
Right?

1299
00:54:23.640 --> 00:54:23.757
Yeah.

1300
00:54:24.422 --> 00:54:27.480
Which is very different than you just saying, you are an agent.

1301
00:54:28.505 --> 00:54:29.460
Do whatever the heck you want.

1302
00:54:29.702 --> 00:54:32.039
And it decides to build a real estate site.

1303
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:32.920
Yeah.

1304
00:54:33.220 --> 00:54:33.539
You know?

1305
00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:34.034
Gotcha.

1306
00:54:34.321 --> 00:54:37.040
I'm internalizing this a little bit like module resolution.

1307
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.800
You create a graph of all the modules that need to be imported.

1308
00:54:39.940 --> 00:54:42.100
But in this case, you're almost doing a feature graph.

1309
00:54:42.680 --> 00:54:47.000
And then you're going to crawl the graph and build the bundle based on everything that's getting made.

1310
00:54:47.300 --> 00:54:48.500
So that's how I'm internalizing right now.

1311
00:54:48.600 --> 00:54:50.340
However, did you say specs?

1312
00:54:50.721 --> 00:54:53.860
Are you putting specs in here and doing a sort of spec-driven development flow?

1313
00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:54.760
Absolutely.

1314
00:54:55.705 --> 00:54:56.940
I want to talk more about this.

1315
00:54:57.100 --> 00:55:00.480
I've been doing this a lot recently, and I've been pushing it really far and really hard.

1316
00:55:00.961 --> 00:55:03.280
So I'm curious, what's your success like?

1317
00:55:03.361 --> 00:55:05.420
What are you finding your spec looks like?

1318
00:55:05.540 --> 00:55:07.280
What are your limits on the size of your spec?

1319
00:55:07.701 --> 00:55:10.160
And what are your criteria for what a good spec should look like?

1320
00:55:10.300 --> 00:55:16.620
What's funny is I think we have been backing our way into this process because we have a lot of existing libraries.

1321
00:55:17.763 --> 00:55:19.540
There's a lot of existing open source out there.

1322
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.140
So I'm not necessarily in the phase where I'm creating a lot of new spec yet.

1323
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:41.600
But what I've been doing is looking at everything that we've created as a spec and figuring out, like, you know, given the current boundaries and constraints and spec that we have created over the years, how pliable is everything inside of that boundary?

1324
00:55:42.861 --> 00:55:53.900
Something I was talking about recently with Kyle Matthews is we thought it was really interesting, like, when Cloudflare forked Next, right?

1325
00:55:54.124 --> 00:55:54.899
They built Venext.

1326
00:55:55.843 --> 00:55:57.619
Everybody said, oh, I think it was Theo, actually.

1327
00:55:57.820 --> 00:55:59.037
He's like a slop fork, right?

1328
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:00.080
Slop fork, yeah.

1329
00:56:00.181 --> 00:56:00.540
Coin to turn.

1330
00:56:00.640 --> 00:56:08.080
Now everybody says slop fork, which is really unfortunate because, sure, there was like an agenda there with why they did it.

1331
00:56:09.561 --> 00:56:13.320
Obviously, they want to pull Next.js users over to Cloudflare, and why wouldn't you?

1332
00:56:14.622 --> 00:56:26.140
But also there is a part of that process where, you know, they took a spec and they broke it down to just the external boundaries.

1333
00:56:26.782 --> 00:56:30.040
And then they created what me and Kyle are calling a new projection.

1334
00:56:30.763 --> 00:56:32.580
It's a new projection of that spec.

1335
00:56:33.285 --> 00:56:35.480
and it was so easy and cheap,

1336
00:56:35.700 --> 00:56:37.340
well, I mean, relatively cheap,

1337
00:56:37.824 --> 00:56:39.620
to create that projection that it's like,

1338
00:56:40.342 --> 00:56:43.500
why are we not creating thousands of new projections

1339
00:56:44.367 --> 00:56:45.920
of the software that we love?

1340
00:56:45.940 --> 00:56:47.380
That's the promise of Spectrum and Vellman, by the way.

1341
00:56:47.584 --> 00:56:48.199
It is, yes.

1342
00:56:48.902 --> 00:56:51.340
And so, and yes, writing new spec,

1343
00:56:51.862 --> 00:56:52.780
that's an art.

1344
00:56:53.420 --> 00:56:55.540
Taking existing spec that's battle tested

1345
00:56:56.164 --> 00:56:58.560
and throwing it into Doctor Strange universe

1346
00:56:59.230 --> 00:56:59.839
and saying like,

1347
00:57:00.202 --> 00:57:03.640
What are all the potential projections of this spec?

1348
00:57:04.261 --> 00:57:05.260
That's very exciting.

1349
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:07.980
Yeah, there's a potential remix culture that could happen with software.

1350
00:57:08.120 --> 00:57:12.820
The same way that you fork and make a couple tweaks on some prompt that someone's given you.

1351
00:57:13.541 --> 00:57:19.480
You could fork an entire spec, make a couple tweaks, add in some silly stuff like Ken Wheeler would do,

1352
00:57:19.520 --> 00:57:24.000
and be like, you're a cyborg monkey that's just escaped from DARPA or whatever he said.

1353
00:57:24.060 --> 00:57:25.680
And it's like, now I need you to go build GitHub.

1354
00:57:25.820 --> 00:57:28.160
And all of a sudden you get this like jungle GitHub, you know?

1355
00:57:28.200 --> 00:57:28.765
It could just be fun.

1356
00:57:30.941 --> 00:57:37.140
We could make software fun for regular folks because they get to take something that they like to use and just tweak it and customize it for themselves.

1357
00:57:37.726 --> 00:57:38.060
Absolutely.

1358
00:57:38.500 --> 00:57:54.620
And I think the part that I'm interested in as an engineer is there are going to be parts of that process that as a developer and curator of the spec, there are certain pieces that I want to stay deterministic.

1359
00:57:55.864 --> 00:58:00.819
that I, you know, the value will be gone if these things change.

1360
00:58:01.562 --> 00:58:05.340
But then I want to allow breathing room, you know,

1361
00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:10.300
around that spec for a cyber monkey version, you know.

1362
00:58:10.901 --> 00:58:14.520
And you want to lock down the things that should be deterministic

1363
00:58:15.706 --> 00:58:18.200
and then allow ultimate expression for the things that don't.

1364
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:22.480
Here's where I'm at right now, because specs alone can't get you determinism.

1365
00:58:23.662 --> 00:58:26.980
Even with tests, you get determinism, but it's a little bit different.

1366
00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:29.100
I've been finding success with state machines.

1367
00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:29.718
Yes.

1368
00:58:30.220 --> 00:58:37.160
So a state machine plus a spec plus tests gives me enough bounds that I can get variants out of something,

1369
00:58:37.503 --> 00:58:39.840
but they conform enough into what I want.

1370
00:58:40.221 --> 00:58:41.480
So it sounds like you're already on it.

1371
00:58:41.500 --> 00:58:42.340
You're already doing state machines.

1372
00:58:43.243 --> 00:58:46.620
I swear David is going to pop up here if you say state machines one more time.

1373
00:58:46.620 --> 00:58:47.080
He's here somewhere.

1374
00:58:47.180 --> 00:58:47.680
He is here.

1375
00:58:48.743 --> 00:58:50.360
State machine, state machine, state machine.

1376
00:58:52.527 --> 00:58:56.120
dude there he is no i'm just kidding i was like no way that would be amazing

1377
00:58:57.242 --> 00:59:05.380
i couldn't resist i so very much agree like yeah state machines specs um all the things that

1378
00:59:05.520 --> 00:59:10.840
actually made software development really great uh over the years that we've been trying to convince

1379
00:59:11.001 --> 00:59:16.700
normal human squishy brains to use like like type safety and state machines and and spec driven

1380
00:59:16.780 --> 00:59:22.980
development, like just became infinitely more useful because of the scale of AI.

1381
00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:24.040
So, yeah.

1382
00:59:24.261 --> 00:59:27.740
The other thing I've added is BDD, behavioral driven design.

1383
00:59:29.882 --> 00:59:32.780
And so that's just another way to describe what you want.

1384
00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:35.480
In this case, you're describing what I want the user to get from it.

1385
00:59:35.900 --> 00:59:37.640
So it's not technical requirements.

1386
00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:39.560
It's a little bit squishier than that.

1387
00:59:39.740 --> 00:59:44.440
But it is still another way to orient the ship as it goes, I need to make the next word.

1388
00:59:44.601 --> 00:59:47.700
And you're like, yeah, consider that the user needs to accomplish this task.

1389
00:59:47.740 --> 00:59:49.040
And it goes, oh, yeah, good point.

1390
00:59:49.100 --> 00:59:51.640
I'll make sure that the state machine allows that particular.

1391
00:59:51.980 --> 00:59:52.107
Great.

1392
00:59:52.460 --> 00:59:53.699
Thanks for the suggestion, BDD.

1393
00:59:54.100 --> 01:00:00.520
You know, and so just more bounds that are meaningful to the expectations of what we want from the output.

1394
01:00:01.101 --> 01:00:03.339
Remember, you're not just, you know, some bytes.

1395
01:00:04.021 --> 01:00:08.640
Like there's a human on the other end of this that needs to derive value from what you're building.

1396
01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.840
Oh, man, one more thing.

1397
01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:10.180
I'm sorry.

1398
01:00:10.462 --> 01:00:11.880
I've just been on this so much.

1399
01:00:12.262 --> 01:00:16.260
is last night we were, okay, so there's context rot or context pollution, right?

1400
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:19.880
So let's say you took the state machine, the spec, the tests,

1401
01:00:20.220 --> 01:00:22.420
and you put those all into the context of the LLM.

1402
01:00:22.740 --> 01:00:24.219
That's a lot for it.

1403
01:00:25.122 --> 01:00:28.900
It's, you know, we're like, hey, but they're all really rigid and it's probably fine.

1404
01:00:29.260 --> 01:00:33.300
No, instead, fan out five agents, one that owns each particular pillar

1405
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:38.620
and have an orchestrator watch them as they go collaborate and work.

1406
01:00:38.741 --> 01:00:42.460
So that way their context is isolated to one ownership of something.

1407
01:00:42.660 --> 01:00:44.260
So you have one spec agent.

1408
01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:47.800
You've got one agent that's on the state machine, one agent that's looking out for the user,

1409
01:00:47.980 --> 01:00:51.560
one agent that's looking out for accessibility, another agent that's looking out for performance or whatever.

1410
01:00:51.660 --> 01:00:52.159
Like a company.

1411
01:00:52.602 --> 01:00:53.140
Like a company.

1412
01:00:53.363 --> 01:00:54.840
So that's kind of what I keep doing.

1413
01:00:55.141 --> 01:00:58.320
And also, and I was telling someone last night, you don't have to stop at one orchestrator, dude.

1414
01:00:58.701 --> 01:01:03.600
You can spin up five orchestrators with five separate teams, all taking the thing that you want,

1415
01:01:04.001 --> 01:01:06.020
making five different versions, and just give me a little error.

1416
01:01:06.342 --> 01:01:08.820
Let me TikTok my way through, I guess not TikTok.

1417
01:01:08.980 --> 01:01:10.600
What's the swipey one where you chose people?

1418
01:01:11.726 --> 01:01:11.980
Tinder.

1419
01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:13.560
Dude, let me Tinder through designs.

1420
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:13.960
Swipe right.

1421
01:01:14.264 --> 01:01:14.720
Swipe right.

1422
01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:15.460
I'm like, don't love it.

1423
01:01:15.582 --> 01:01:15.998
Don't love it.

1424
01:01:16.201 --> 01:01:17.339
That's the solution, you know?

1425
01:01:17.480 --> 01:01:23.380
And then now you've got, you're using LLMs in this multifaceted way, and you're not just,

1426
01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:25.820
anyway, so sorry, I'm talking a lot, but okay.

1427
01:01:26.120 --> 01:01:26.800
That's fantastic.

1428
01:01:27.521 --> 01:01:28.960
Adam likes this stuff, if you couldn't tell.

1429
01:01:29.346 --> 01:01:29.600
No way.

1430
01:01:29.682 --> 01:01:30.159
It's been fun.

1431
01:01:30.422 --> 01:01:31.160
Such a surprise.

1432
01:01:33.747 --> 01:01:34.140
Very cool.

1433
01:01:34.385 --> 01:01:34.600
All right.

1434
01:01:34.743 --> 01:01:35.460
Is React a framework?

1435
01:01:36.724 --> 01:01:39.820
Uh, yeah, by the general sense of the term, sure.

1436
01:01:40.860 --> 01:01:41.013
Okay.

1437
01:01:41.500 --> 01:01:42.940
Were React server components a mistake?

1438
01:01:44.287 --> 01:01:44.879
Um, no.

1439
01:01:46.444 --> 01:01:47.580
Hooks, signals, or proxies?

1440
01:01:49.825 --> 01:01:50.280
Signals.

1441
01:01:51.267 --> 01:01:51.539
Nice.

1442
01:01:52.241 --> 01:01:53.520
Is HTML a programming language?

1443
01:01:55.634 --> 01:01:55.820
Sure.

1444
01:01:56.566 --> 01:01:57.180
What about CSS?

1445
01:01:59.084 --> 01:02:00.139
Lately, more so.

1446
01:02:01.742 --> 01:02:02.740
Tailwind or vanilla CSS?

1447
01:02:03.162 --> 01:02:03.540
Tailwind.

1448
01:02:04.601 --> 01:02:05.580
Git rebase or git merge?

1449
01:02:06.389 --> 01:02:06.820
I don't care.

1450
01:02:08.460 --> 01:02:09.620
Semicolons or no semicolons?

1451
01:02:10.324 --> 01:02:11.000
I used to care.

1452
01:02:12.002 --> 01:02:13.840
No semicolons, but now I don't care.

1453
01:02:15.123 --> 01:02:16.840
What is your least favorite programming language?

1454
01:02:21.322 --> 01:02:22.419
PHP was not very fun.

1455
01:02:23.402 --> 01:02:24.440
It has so many dollar signs.

1456
01:02:25.343 --> 01:02:25.515
Yeah.

1457
01:02:26.022 --> 01:02:28.960
It's just because that was the first language that I got really deep into.

1458
01:02:29.700 --> 01:02:32.280
And so there's, like, trauma, you know?

1459
01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:35.440
WordPress, building, like, custom WordPress plugins.

1460
01:02:35.925 --> 01:02:37.280
Yeah, the white screen of death.

1461
01:02:37.602 --> 01:02:37.800
Yeah.

1462
01:02:38.463 --> 01:02:41.360
So there was like some trauma association with WordPress.

1463
01:02:41.600 --> 01:02:44.580
But I mean, otherwise, like PHP is fun still.

1464
01:02:44.780 --> 01:02:45.160
It's cool.

1465
01:02:45.380 --> 01:02:48.860
But yeah, the worst programming language, JavaScript.

1466
01:02:50.145 --> 01:02:51.539
It's also the best programming language.

1467
01:02:52.701 --> 01:02:54.400
Yeah, I could see that.

1468
01:02:55.022 --> 01:02:55.800
Have you reached AGI?

1469
01:02:56.729 --> 01:02:56.858
No.

1470
01:02:58.043 --> 01:02:59.437
What's your preferred AI harness?

1471
01:03:01.064 --> 01:03:02.119
Oh, it changes every week.

1472
01:03:03.232 --> 01:03:03.939
right now I'm using

1473
01:03:04.407 --> 01:03:05.240
Cloud Code Desktop

1474
01:03:06.310 --> 01:03:07.280
like the desktop app

1475
01:03:07.947 --> 01:03:09.040
as my daily driver

1476
01:03:09.403 --> 01:03:11.337
which wasn't really possible for me

1477
01:03:12.067 --> 01:03:12.779
a couple weeks ago

1478
01:03:13.345 --> 01:03:14.859
I tried it again and now it's

1479
01:03:15.448 --> 01:03:16.140
gotten a lot better

1480
01:03:16.140 --> 01:03:18.859
I kind of got baited into it too

1481
01:03:19.323 --> 01:03:20.679
Anthropic changed

1482
01:03:21.426 --> 01:03:23.000
Cloud.ai to use TanSec Start

1483
01:03:24.031 --> 01:03:24.879
and then I found out that

1484
01:03:25.930 --> 01:03:26.920
a router, a TanSec router

1485
01:03:27.041 --> 01:03:29.040
and then I found out that that's actually embedded

1486
01:03:29.264 --> 01:03:30.239
into the desktop app

1487
01:03:30.563 --> 01:03:32.180
So I was like, well, why wouldn't I try that?

1488
01:03:33.024 --> 01:03:34.360
And it's been a lot of fun.

1489
01:03:34.520 --> 01:03:38.120
But I'm trying a lot of other ones too, like T3 codes, interesting.

1490
01:03:39.243 --> 01:03:41.100
I've been using Codex for a while.

1491
01:03:42.082 --> 01:03:45.480
There was a big, long season where I was definitely using OpenCode,

1492
01:03:46.161 --> 01:03:50.560
and I was 100% using the Claude subscription in OpenCode,

1493
01:03:51.747 --> 01:03:53.940
and probably past the date when I wasn't supposed to.

1494
01:03:53.960 --> 01:03:54.300
He's in the shorts.

1495
01:03:55.805 --> 01:03:56.820
Go ahead, ban me.

1496
01:03:58.745 --> 01:04:04.300
yeah that all that drama is just ridiculous like yeah if we're trying to pay you money who cares

1497
01:04:04.340 --> 01:04:08.919
where we're using it at but yeah well i mean they gave me an open source one of those open

1498
01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:15.300
source plans too like the 20x plan did they you guys adam didn't get one i got one i matched the

1499
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:20.940
criteria but they just denied it anyway i got it at least for six months right uh and had a time

1500
01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:26.560
limit yeah well now i feel better all of you you're on the same as you in september i hope

1501
01:04:26.600 --> 01:04:31.720
it gets renewed you know if that's even a thing but i feel like they why wouldn't they renew it

1502
01:04:31.720 --> 01:04:35.140
because they can just train everything on everything everybody's doing like give it to

1503
01:04:35.160 --> 01:04:39.600
everyone yeah if they don't i'm just gonna say come on you guys are using my open source software

1504
01:04:39.841 --> 01:04:44.500
like yeah you got a good angle in there like pay it forward you know yeah yeah thank you

1505
01:04:45.567 --> 01:04:47.700
Will AI take out designers or devs first?

1506
01:04:49.207 --> 01:04:49.599
I don't know.

1507
01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:50.266
I think both.

1508
01:04:51.820 --> 01:04:54.407
I mean, it's going to take out the top 80% to 90% of both, I think, eventually.

1509
01:04:59.882 --> 01:05:01.899
It's about when, not if.

1510
01:05:03.001 --> 01:05:04.840
It's more about time right now.

1511
01:05:06.142 --> 01:05:06.491
Yeah, I agree.

1512
01:05:07.022 --> 01:05:08.960
I mean, I would say that we have plenty of time.

1513
01:05:09.701 --> 01:05:10.099
Yeah.

1514
01:05:10.141 --> 01:05:10.600
Yeah.

1515
01:05:11.922 --> 01:05:15.860
It's still a great time to become a developer or a designer.

1516
01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:20.560
You just have to be better than whatever's going to come out of that.

1517
01:05:21.726 --> 01:05:22.620
The bar is higher now.

1518
01:05:22.661 --> 01:05:23.379
Yeah, the bar is higher.

1519
01:05:23.680 --> 01:05:23.800
Yeah.

1520
01:05:26.002 --> 01:05:28.480
Speaking of bars, sidebar on the left or right?

1521
01:05:29.020 --> 01:05:29.157
Left.

1522
01:05:29.200 --> 01:05:30.059
Did you guys go out last night?

1523
01:05:30.541 --> 01:05:31.640
Tabs on top or left?

1524
01:05:32.806 --> 01:05:33.195
It depends.

1525
01:05:34.321 --> 01:05:35.320
Ooh, where, how?

1526
01:05:36.244 --> 01:05:38.100
I keep tabs on the top for my browser.

1527
01:05:38.865 --> 01:05:39.140
I do not.

1528
01:05:39.903 --> 01:05:43.620
But like in most other apps, I like the left tab.

1529
01:05:44.080 --> 01:05:44.320
Nice.

1530
01:05:44.500 --> 01:05:47.680
Are you using Cmux or Warp, or how are you doing your terminal tabs on the left?

1531
01:05:49.306 --> 01:05:50.479
I tried Cmux.

1532
01:05:52.785 --> 01:05:56.220
I was doing actually top terminal tabs for a while.

1533
01:05:57.024 --> 01:05:57.938
I was actually a madman.

1534
01:05:58.605 --> 01:05:59.680
I did not do it normal.

1535
01:06:00.243 --> 01:06:01.820
I was using Mac spaces.

1536
01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:05.140
So I had like 10 separate spaces on my Mac.

1537
01:06:05.160 --> 01:06:05.224
Oh.

1538
01:06:05.882 --> 01:06:09.680
And then inside of each space, I had a dedicated terminal window.

1539
01:06:10.183 --> 01:06:12.200
And then inside of there, I had a bunch of tabs.

1540
01:06:12.980 --> 01:06:17.000
And depending on what terminal I was using at the time, sometimes it was left, sometimes it was top.

1541
01:06:18.362 --> 01:06:21.480
The last time I was in using OpenCode, I was using Ghosty.

1542
01:06:22.545 --> 01:06:23.740
And so I was a top tab.

1543
01:06:25.341 --> 01:06:31.160
So at any given moment, I had like 30 or 40 total terminal tabs on my machine.

1544
01:06:31.300 --> 01:06:33.780
When you were in a tab in Ghosty, did you do the panels too?

1545
01:06:34.160 --> 01:06:34.960
Because that's what I'll have.

1546
01:06:35.040 --> 01:06:39.100
I'll have like five tabs in Ghosty, but each tab has four instances in it.

1547
01:06:39.262 --> 01:06:40.379
No, I didn't do that.

1548
01:06:40.660 --> 01:06:42.960
Like when I started, it's like splitting panels.

1549
01:06:43.200 --> 01:06:43.314
Yeah.

1550
01:06:43.520 --> 01:06:45.419
The Chrome wasn't strong enough.

1551
01:06:45.940 --> 01:06:46.300
So like.

1552
01:06:46.421 --> 01:06:47.140
I get lost a little.

1553
01:06:47.442 --> 01:06:48.320
Yeah, I got lost.

1554
01:06:48.560 --> 01:06:54.160
So the tabs were at least like, okay, I know very, very clearly that these tabs are separate things.

1555
01:06:54.820 --> 01:06:57.440
You know, I would jump into a tab and there's like four of them in there.

1556
01:06:57.460 --> 01:06:59.060
I'd be like, oh, I forgot I had four in there.

1557
01:06:59.704 --> 01:07:00.440
That's why I didn't do it.

1558
01:07:00.581 --> 01:07:05.900
Warp just came out with tabs on left, and you can name the tab as a project or whatever,

1559
01:07:06.101 --> 01:07:09.680
and then you can see all the panels that it has inside of it, and you know what they are.

1560
01:07:09.905 --> 01:07:10.140
Oh, okay.

1561
01:07:10.341 --> 01:07:12.820
So it's kind of illuminating what the other ones aren't doing.

1562
01:07:12.940 --> 01:07:13.719
Almost like a mini-map.

1563
01:07:14.725 --> 01:07:15.640
I love the term mini-map.

1564
01:07:15.721 --> 01:07:16.400
I use it all the time.

1565
01:07:16.563 --> 01:07:16.680
Yeah.

1566
01:07:16.863 --> 01:07:17.139
Thank you.

1567
01:07:17.301 --> 01:07:17.820
Yes, that's right.

1568
01:07:18.201 --> 01:07:18.740
Yeah, very cool.

1569
01:07:20.684 --> 01:07:21.240
Great question.

1570
01:07:22.904 --> 01:07:23.800
Any more of these you want to do?

1571
01:07:24.300 --> 01:07:24.560
I don't know.

1572
01:07:24.560 --> 01:07:24.940
How are you feeling?

1573
01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:25.500
You want some more?

1574
01:07:25.580 --> 01:07:26.259
You want a rapid fire?

1575
01:07:26.542 --> 01:07:26.813
I'm fine.

1576
01:07:27.180 --> 01:07:29.120
You got an agent open on your lap just doing work, yeah?

1577
01:07:29.902 --> 01:07:31.280
Oh, it probably went to sleep now.

1578
01:07:31.501 --> 01:07:32.160
Oh, shame.

1579
01:07:32.300 --> 01:07:33.691
No, I just had a couple of cloud codes running.

1580
01:07:35.420 --> 01:07:35.560
Yeah.

1581
01:07:35.985 --> 01:07:36.177
Nice.

1582
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:37.660
So I probably should have shut it.

1583
01:07:39.505 --> 01:07:40.380
No, you got to always be working.

1584
01:07:40.861 --> 01:07:43.720
I do like the remote control feature, so I can just go do other shit,

1585
01:07:43.860 --> 01:07:45.200
and, like, it's still building.

1586
01:07:45.462 --> 01:07:46.620
Whose remote control feature?

1587
01:07:46.922 --> 01:07:47.859
The cloud code.

1588
01:07:48.764 --> 01:07:49.800
Like the dispatch stuff?

1589
01:07:50.762 --> 01:07:51.940
It's called remote control.

1590
01:07:51.940 --> 01:07:52.377
I don't know.

1591
01:07:52.560 --> 01:07:55.840
So you, like, run something and then go do whatever,

1592
01:07:56.140 --> 01:07:58.300
and it tells you on your phone on the cloud app, like,

1593
01:07:58.442 --> 01:07:59.640
I'll be honest, I haven't used it yet.

1594
01:07:59.860 --> 01:08:02.260
Yeah, I hadn't used it until recently, and it was really nice.

1595
01:08:02.541 --> 01:08:05.980
I was doing, like, tail scale stuff before, and that was really fun.

1596
01:08:06.661 --> 01:08:09.360
But I guess they must have added that to the Cloud Desktop app.

1597
01:08:09.720 --> 01:08:11.000
They add everything every day.

1598
01:08:11.200 --> 01:08:12.078
They're always shipping stuff.

1599
01:08:12.441 --> 01:08:13.560
I haven't tried it yet for that.

1600
01:08:13.660 --> 01:08:16.500
Do you know, like, can I start it on my machine?

1601
01:08:17.122 --> 01:08:19.740
Does my machine have to stay open, or is it, like, cloud-based?

1602
01:08:20.162 --> 01:08:21.179
No, it's not cloud-based.

1603
01:08:21.322 --> 01:08:22.198
It's on your machine.

1604
01:08:22.300 --> 01:08:22.820
Okay, so I have my machine open?

1605
01:08:23.040 --> 01:08:27.680
Yeah, so it, like, I guess spins up something that knows how to connect to it,

1606
01:08:27.821 --> 01:08:31.320
And then you use like that key on your phone.

1607
01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:32.460
But your phone just knows.

1608
01:08:32.540 --> 01:08:33.679
You don't have to like copy the key.

1609
01:08:34.087 --> 01:08:34.260
Right.

1610
01:08:34.820 --> 01:08:37.620
Because I saw dispatch and I tried that.

1611
01:08:37.700 --> 01:08:41.320
But you like have to start a chat in dispatch for them to show up on my phone.

1612
01:08:41.921 --> 01:08:48.020
But it seemed like more oriented towards like just chat and co-work instead of like the code.

1613
01:08:48.180 --> 01:08:50.020
So it sounds like I need to use remote control.

1614
01:08:50.441 --> 01:08:51.060
Yes, it's good.

1615
01:08:51.180 --> 01:08:52.840
You just do your normal cloud code stuff.

1616
01:08:52.900 --> 01:08:56.780
And then if you have something else to do for a second, it'll give you a notification on your phone if it's stuck.

1617
01:08:56.943 --> 01:08:57.200
And you can.

1618
01:08:57.442 --> 01:08:57.740
Nice.

1619
01:08:57.860 --> 01:08:58.120
Do whatever.

1620
01:08:58.544 --> 01:08:59.660
Kent was making fun of me earlier.

1621
01:08:59.780 --> 01:09:02.877
He's like, you're walking around with your computer and everybody knows you have a local agent.

1622
01:09:03.520 --> 01:09:04.820
Yeah, where's the cloud agents, man?

1623
01:09:05.004 --> 01:09:05.180
Yeah.

1624
01:09:05.741 --> 01:09:08.900
And I'm like, hey, when I used to use Cursor, I loved cloud agents, you know.

1625
01:09:08.980 --> 01:09:13.460
But lately, I mean, I got a lot of stuff on my machine that's not even in the cloud.

1626
01:09:13.960 --> 01:09:15.020
Yeah, that's my problem, too.

1627
01:09:15.220 --> 01:09:18.380
It's like cloud code could do it, but I'm like, I don't want to check this code in yet.

1628
01:09:18.460 --> 01:09:20.059
I don't need to make a repo just to, yeah.

1629
01:09:20.400 --> 01:09:23.980
A lot of, like, new ideas that I'm, like, haven't even committed to get.

1630
01:09:24.546 --> 01:09:24.660
Yeah.

1631
01:09:24.802 --> 01:09:25.339
Should probably do that.

1632
01:09:25.422 --> 01:09:25.880
Probably do that.

1633
01:09:25.960 --> 01:09:26.160
Yeah.

1634
01:09:26.269 --> 01:09:26.378
Yeah.

1635
01:09:27.687 --> 01:09:28.559
Yeah, you might lose those.

1636
01:09:30.161 --> 01:09:31.929
Yeah, this machine's like from 2021, so you never know.

1637
01:09:34.601 --> 01:09:35.500
Crocs or flip-flops?

1638
01:09:36.721 --> 01:09:41.160
Oh, well, I can't really wear both anymore.

1639
01:09:42.308 --> 01:09:43.080
I have terrible feet.

1640
01:09:43.244 --> 01:09:43.540
Oh, no.

1641
01:09:43.841 --> 01:09:44.860
But I like flip-flops.

1642
01:09:45.702 --> 01:09:47.280
But we're definitely a croc family.

1643
01:09:48.364 --> 01:09:50.380
Like all my kids have crocs.

1644
01:09:50.665 --> 01:09:51.440
The kids love crocs.

1645
01:09:51.480 --> 01:09:52.500
Do you have matching charms?

1646
01:09:53.504 --> 01:09:53.675
No.

1647
01:09:54.141 --> 01:09:56.300
Oh, that's what other dads I know do with their kids.

1648
01:09:56.360 --> 01:09:59.040
But my kids had some Disney charms at one point.

1649
01:10:00.003 --> 01:10:02.460
We went to Disneyland and had Disney charms and Crocs.

1650
01:10:03.502 --> 01:10:05.539
I've never owned a pair of Crocs in my life.

1651
01:10:06.669 --> 01:10:06.980
Me neither.

1652
01:10:08.106 --> 01:10:08.380
All right.

1653
01:10:08.702 --> 01:10:09.560
East Coast or West Coast?

1654
01:10:10.424 --> 01:10:10.919
West Coast.

1655
01:10:11.340 --> 01:10:12.400
Dark or light factories?

1656
01:10:13.724 --> 01:10:14.560
Yeah, dark factories.

1657
01:10:14.620 --> 01:10:15.240
You're familiar with that?

1658
01:10:15.568 --> 01:10:15.696
No.

1659
01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:20.280
That's when you set up a genetic development system that you don't look at the code.

1660
01:10:20.560 --> 01:10:25.200
You can still have all your rules and tests that need to pass and stuff like that, but you just literally don't care.

1661
01:10:25.545 --> 01:10:26.179
That's more fun.

1662
01:10:26.962 --> 01:10:33.360
it is more fun yeah scarier if you're talking about production stuff but it is a lot more fun

1663
01:10:34.164 --> 01:10:37.620
so awesome which means it will probably win out in the end because it's more fun

1664
01:10:37.961 --> 01:10:42.220
yeah the risk is fun yeah yeah uh beards or mustaches

1665
01:10:44.726 --> 01:10:50.660
i have neither or clean clean shaven i'm not capable of either so i'm not allowed to have

1666
01:10:50.700 --> 01:10:58.400
an opinion if i could grow either i maybe would try but it would just come in like really joe dirt

1667
01:10:58.621 --> 01:11:04.380
if it's all sparse yeah yeah so i just i just hide that from everybody you know i go for that

1668
01:11:04.440 --> 01:11:12.200
like 25 year old fresh look that's working dude it's working hopefully it keeps working well we're

1669
01:11:12.220 --> 01:11:16.080
pretty much at the end of the questions anything you want to chat about pitch uh share with

1670
01:11:16.122 --> 01:11:16.440
everybody.

1671
01:11:18.150 --> 01:11:19.120
Go try Tan Stack Start.

1672
01:11:20.001 --> 01:11:20.324
Sick.

1673
01:11:20.891 --> 01:11:21.720
Hey, thanks for sitting down.

1674
01:11:21.820 --> 01:11:22.185
It was fun.

1675
01:11:22.205 --> 01:11:22.651
Thanks, guys.

1676
01:11:22.671 --> 01:11:23.299
This was a lot of fun.

1677
01:11:24.063 --> 01:11:24.507
Take it easy.

1678
01:11:24.831 --> 01:11:25.720
Go get some work done.

1679
01:11:25.886 --> 01:11:26.218
Yeah, I will.

1680
01:11:28.665 --> 01:11:29.799
My agents are doing it right now.

1681
01:11:32.563 --> 01:11:33.315
What's up, everybody?

1682
01:11:33.416 --> 01:11:33.619
Welcome

1683
01:11:33.862 --> 01:11:35.639
to Whiskey Web and What Not

1684
01:11:35.801 --> 01:11:37.560
with your hosts, Robbie the Wagner and

1685
01:11:37.762 --> 01:11:39.560
Adam Thomas Argyle, the nerd.

1686
01:11:39.820 --> 01:11:40.406
What's up, y'all?

1687
01:11:40.426 --> 01:11:41.720
This has been so fun.

1688
01:11:42.200 --> 01:11:43.680
Yeah, we are still at React

1689
01:11:43.741 --> 01:11:44.900
Miami, if you can believe it.

1690
01:11:45.545 --> 01:11:47.540
and chatting with more folks here.

1691
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:48.600
We've got Francesco.

1692
01:11:48.701 --> 01:11:49.058
How's it going?

1693
01:11:49.741 --> 01:11:50.880
Hi, nice to meet you.

1694
01:11:51.081 --> 01:11:52.519
Thank you so much for having me.

1695
01:11:52.841 --> 01:11:53.380
Yeah, yeah.

1696
01:11:53.460 --> 01:11:54.199
Let's have a nice chat.

1697
01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:55.440
Yes, yeah.

1698
01:11:55.540 --> 01:11:58.660
So we're happy to talk about anything you have on your mind,

1699
01:11:58.720 --> 01:12:00.160
but we have a giant list of hot takes

1700
01:12:00.241 --> 01:12:01.280
if you'd like to go through those.

1701
01:12:01.703 --> 01:12:02.120
Let's go.

1702
01:12:03.102 --> 01:12:04.777
Let's start with the easy ones first.

1703
01:12:05.529 --> 01:12:05.656
Sure.

1704
01:12:06.141 --> 01:12:07.240
All right, this one is super easy.

1705
01:12:07.321 --> 01:12:08.100
Is React a framework?

1706
01:12:09.587 --> 01:12:09.840
Yes.

1707
01:12:10.161 --> 01:12:11.539
Yes, but to do what?

1708
01:12:13.689 --> 01:12:14.017
It is.

1709
01:12:14.424 --> 01:12:14.576
Yeah.

1710
01:12:14.841 --> 01:12:20.780
that's fair were react server components a mistake uh don't think so i think it's a good option

1711
01:12:21.362 --> 01:12:26.660
for who wants to use them yeah that's fair hooks signals or proxies hooks

1712
01:12:28.264 --> 01:12:34.900
is html a programming language of course it is nice love that what about css the css might be

1713
01:12:35.321 --> 01:12:40.280
but only if you're good at it that's right when adam uses it it's a program

1714
01:12:40.481 --> 01:12:41.754
Exactly, exactly, exactly.

1715
01:12:43.822 --> 01:12:44.860
Tailwind or Vanilla CSS?

1716
01:12:45.964 --> 01:12:46.277
Tailwind.

1717
01:12:46.420 --> 01:12:48.198
I didn't even hear the second option, but Tailwind.

1718
01:12:50.610 --> 01:12:50.840
Nice.

1719
01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:51.680
So you're a Tailwind fan?

1720
01:12:52.591 --> 01:12:52.900
I am.

1721
01:12:52.960 --> 01:12:55.080
As a DevOps guy, I love Tailwind.

1722
01:12:55.461 --> 01:12:56.980
Yes, I love Tailwind as well.

1723
01:12:57.424 --> 01:12:57.999
It gets a lot of hate.

1724
01:12:58.100 --> 01:12:59.720
I don't know why, but I love it.

1725
01:13:00.201 --> 01:13:03.060
Some people just don't like good things.

1726
01:13:03.381 --> 01:13:04.420
Yeah, that's true.

1727
01:13:06.445 --> 01:13:07.459
Git rebase or Git merge?

1728
01:13:09.506 --> 01:13:09.976
Git merge.

1729
01:13:10.603 --> 01:13:10.967
usually.

1730
01:13:10.987 --> 01:13:12.060
Don't hate me.

1731
01:13:13.791 --> 01:13:14.080
We don't.

1732
01:13:14.261 --> 01:13:16.520
I think we've had a decent 50-50 split on that one.

1733
01:13:16.721 --> 01:13:17.820
Yeah, you'll get hate anyway.

1734
01:13:18.140 --> 01:13:19.090
Whatever is the answer.

1735
01:13:19.555 --> 01:13:19.980
That's basically

1736
01:13:20.081 --> 01:13:22.220
a bait question because you'll get

1737
01:13:22.260 --> 01:13:22.786
hate anyway.

1738
01:13:22.967 --> 01:13:23.735
Yeah.

1739
01:13:23.756 --> 01:13:24.140
Do you have

1740
01:13:24.261 --> 01:13:25.559
a reason as to why you like it?

1741
01:13:27.086 --> 01:13:27.431
I don't know.

1742
01:13:27.532 --> 01:13:27.938
I think it's

1743
01:13:28.403 --> 01:13:29.555
more straightforward, so

1744
01:13:30.423 --> 01:13:31.048
I like it more.

1745
01:13:31.330 --> 01:13:31.532
Yeah.

1746
01:13:31.814 --> 01:13:32.460
Less problems

1747
01:13:32.784 --> 01:13:33.515
encountered, I guess.

1748
01:13:33.535 --> 01:13:33.880
Less problems.

1749
01:13:34.463 --> 01:13:35.260
Don't want problems.

1750
01:13:37.460 --> 01:13:38.660
Semicolons or no semicolons?

1751
01:13:39.462 --> 01:13:45.460
semicolons just because in rasta you use semicolons nice i love semicolons who doesn't

1752
01:13:46.381 --> 01:13:49.579
me no it was a rhetoric question

1753
01:13:49.840 --> 01:13:52.068
whoever doesn't like them doesn't matter sounds like

1754
01:13:55.440 --> 01:14:02.960
what is your least favorite programming language the least favorite prologue but i think nobody

1755
01:14:03.041 --> 01:14:03.607
knows it.

1756
01:14:03.748 --> 01:14:04.819
It's a super hard

1757
01:14:05.566 --> 01:14:07.000
language that I had to learn

1758
01:14:07.101 --> 01:14:08.639
to pass a university exam

1759
01:14:09.305 --> 01:14:11.040
and I hate it to it all myself.

1760
01:14:11.302 --> 01:14:12.378
One day I will make a

1761
01:14:13.306 --> 01:14:15.200
video to finally take it down forever

1762
01:14:15.483 --> 01:14:16.759
everywhere on the internet.

1763
01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:18.880
It's actually the most hated programming

1764
01:14:19.083 --> 01:14:20.120
language on Stack Overflow.

1765
01:14:20.821 --> 01:14:22.460
It has to stay there.

1766
01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:24.160
That sounds like a viral video in the making.

1767
01:14:24.381 --> 01:14:25.340
People love hate.

1768
01:14:25.821 --> 01:14:28.740
If you've got it burning inside of you, they're going to love watching it

1769
01:14:28.781 --> 01:14:29.539
just rage out.

1770
01:14:30.042 --> 01:14:32.340
At least I didn't have to say Java.

1771
01:14:32.421 --> 01:14:33.499
so we have something worse.

1772
01:14:34.283 --> 01:14:35.620
It's weird, but we have something worse.

1773
01:14:35.882 --> 01:14:36.860
Everyone else has said Java.

1774
01:14:37.833 --> 01:14:38.040
I know.

1775
01:14:39.545 --> 01:14:40.260
Yeah, so they rank.

1776
01:14:40.501 --> 01:14:42.280
How do they determine what are the most hated?

1777
01:14:42.460 --> 01:14:45.080
Is it like sentiment analysis of how they're talking about it?

1778
01:14:45.260 --> 01:14:46.840
No, it's basically Stack Overflow.

1779
01:14:47.221 --> 01:14:49.800
The question is, what is a programming language?

1780
01:14:50.081 --> 01:14:52.700
After using it, you don't want to use it anymore.

1781
01:14:53.605 --> 01:14:54.820
So they don't ask what you hate.

1782
01:14:55.040 --> 01:14:59.380
But if, I don't know, I think 90% of the people who tried it

1783
01:14:59.582 --> 01:15:00.739
don't want to use it.

1784
01:15:01.483 --> 01:15:01.740
Gotcha.

1785
01:15:02.064 --> 01:15:03.440
So this is basically hate.

1786
01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:04.835
That's a good signal.

1787
01:15:05.400 --> 01:15:06.720
It's not really hate, but it's good in this case.

1788
01:15:06.841 --> 01:15:08.000
Just better, nicer wording.

1789
01:15:08.022 --> 01:15:08.215
Yeah.

1790
01:15:11.045 --> 01:15:12.000
Have we reached AGI?

1791
01:15:13.821 --> 01:15:18.240
We might be, especially if you ask AI, like say that we reached AGI.

1792
01:15:18.400 --> 01:15:19.680
In that case, you can panic.

1793
01:15:20.501 --> 01:15:22.453
But no, I don't think so yet.

1794
01:15:24.121 --> 01:15:26.860
Yeah, I guess it depends on how you define it.

1795
01:15:27.521 --> 01:15:28.820
But yeah, I don't think so either.

1796
01:15:29.222 --> 01:15:32.140
I think that once we will reach AGI, we will know it.

1797
01:15:32.540 --> 01:15:33.672
It will not even be a question.

1798
01:15:34.943 --> 01:15:35.060
Yeah.

1799
01:15:35.200 --> 01:15:37.580
So, we are questioning that, is it or is it not?

1800
01:15:38.580 --> 01:15:39.432
We will know.

1801
01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:42.000
We will stop asking that and probably we'll all be dead.

1802
01:15:42.663 --> 01:15:43.920
It will not even be a problem.

1803
01:15:44.340 --> 01:15:44.453
Yeah.

1804
01:15:45.363 --> 01:15:47.738
Are AGI and Singularity the same?

1805
01:15:48.120 --> 01:15:48.660
Are they aligned?

1806
01:15:49.461 --> 01:15:51.539
Like, Singularity, that's...

1807
01:15:51.681 --> 01:15:52.680
I think it's different.

1808
01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:57.060
Because that's when the AI is making its own better versions of itself

1809
01:15:57.241 --> 01:16:00.160
until it just far surpasses anything we could have even comprehended.

1810
01:16:00.280 --> 01:16:01.654
It's written its own code, so...

1811
01:16:02.261 --> 01:16:03.780
That's a super intelligence one, right?

1812
01:16:03.860 --> 01:16:06.020
Like, general intelligence is not there yet, I don't think.

1813
01:16:06.160 --> 01:16:06.939
Oh, I see what you mean.

1814
01:16:07.100 --> 01:16:09.720
So AGI being artificial general intelligence,

1815
01:16:10.061 --> 01:16:12.380
singularity would be some sort of advanced intelligence?

1816
01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:14.520
Like, better than the IQ of any human, yeah.

1817
01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:15.514
Yeah, it might be.

1818
01:16:16.262 --> 01:16:16.608
Interesting.

1819
01:16:16.954 --> 01:16:17.260
Good call.

1820
01:16:17.281 --> 01:16:17.558
Yeah.

1821
01:16:17.965 --> 01:16:18.140
Cool.

1822
01:16:20.763 --> 01:16:22.020
What's your preferred AI harness?

1823
01:16:22.747 --> 01:16:22.835
AI?

1824
01:16:24.108 --> 01:16:24.540
AI what?

1825
01:16:24.882 --> 01:16:25.238
Harness.

1826
01:16:25.825 --> 01:16:27.280
like open code,

1827
01:16:27.820 --> 01:16:28.579
cloud code?

1828
01:16:29.141 --> 01:16:30.700
I think cloud code for now.

1829
01:16:31.282 --> 01:16:33.420
I don't like to try too many tools

1830
01:16:33.481 --> 01:16:34.188
at the same time.

1831
01:16:34.208 --> 01:16:35.360
For example, I think I didn't even

1832
01:16:35.461 --> 01:16:36.860
try codex for now because

1833
01:16:37.687 --> 01:16:39.380
I don't want to jump tools

1834
01:16:39.521 --> 01:16:41.500
after tool after tool every single day

1835
01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:42.379
otherwise I will go crazy.

1836
01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:45.360
And so for now

1837
01:16:45.441 --> 01:16:47.400
I'm testing code intensively.

1838
01:16:48.204 --> 01:16:49.720
I want to try codex for sure

1839
01:16:50.185 --> 01:16:51.299
also open code but I

1840
01:16:51.622 --> 01:16:53.400
don't want to go in full

1841
01:16:53.461 --> 01:16:54.027
test mode.

1842
01:16:54.087 --> 01:16:55.239
It's like when you learn

1843
01:16:55.320 --> 01:16:56.288
back then

1844
01:16:57.882 --> 01:16:59.539
JavaScript framework, you don't learn them

1845
01:16:59.985 --> 01:17:01.020
all at once, like

1846
01:17:01.405 --> 01:17:01.931
I did.

1847
01:17:02.153 --> 01:17:02.700
It was a mistake.

1848
01:17:03.501 --> 01:17:05.520
But now that I know this, I'm taking one

1849
01:17:05.580 --> 01:17:07.460
tool, I stay for it at least a couple

1850
01:17:07.521 --> 01:17:09.180
of months, and then I try something else.

1851
01:17:09.862 --> 01:17:10.080
Gotcha.

1852
01:17:11.822 --> 01:17:13.480
There's a lot to try, and I'm sure there'll be

1853
01:17:13.541 --> 01:17:14.793
more coming.

1854
01:17:15.217 --> 01:17:15.560
I don't know.

1855
01:17:16.002 --> 01:17:16.256
We'll see.

1856
01:17:17.384 --> 01:17:18.439
I've been using Cloud a lot

1857
01:17:19.003 --> 01:17:21.440
because we've talked about this a lot, but I

1858
01:17:21.480 --> 01:17:23.700
I got the like open source free one or whatever.

1859
01:17:23.840 --> 01:17:24.920
And I'm like, hey, cool.

1860
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:25.260
It's free.

1861
01:17:25.341 --> 01:17:25.817
I'll use it.

1862
01:17:26.200 --> 01:17:26.300
Cool.

1863
01:17:27.641 --> 01:17:31.520
And yeah, I don't know if I'm getting better or worse results than open code.

1864
01:17:31.660 --> 01:17:32.360
It's pretty comparable.

1865
01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:35.160
I feel like, I don't know.

1866
01:17:35.501 --> 01:17:41.860
I don't think I'm getting good results out of if I'm forced to use open AI models.

1867
01:17:42.480 --> 01:17:45.120
Like all the anthropic models do a lot better, I feel like.

1868
01:17:45.700 --> 01:17:49.620
Usually that's a sentiment, especially for things that has to do with coding.

1869
01:17:50.200 --> 01:17:50.317
Yeah.

1870
01:17:50.622 --> 01:17:52.860
For now, I think it's number one.

1871
01:17:53.381 --> 01:17:55.240
By the way, this is not sponsored by Entropic.

1872
01:17:55.540 --> 01:17:55.609
No.

1873
01:17:55.800 --> 01:17:55.998
Sadly.

1874
01:17:56.320 --> 01:17:57.259
Unless it wants to be.

1875
01:17:59.263 --> 01:18:01.220
We will take that money if you would like to give us some.

1876
01:18:01.480 --> 01:18:02.420
But yeah.

1877
01:18:03.982 --> 01:18:07.080
Do you think AI will take out designers or developers first?

1878
01:18:08.762 --> 01:18:10.840
So it's going to take them both anyway.

1879
01:18:10.980 --> 01:18:11.760
So this is the question.

1880
01:18:12.082 --> 01:18:12.260
Yeah.

1881
01:18:12.661 --> 01:18:15.220
I think designer first.

1882
01:18:16.282 --> 01:18:18.820
But none of them is going to happen anyway.

1883
01:18:19.825 --> 01:18:20.199
Never?

1884
01:18:20.741 --> 01:18:25.636
No, yeah, because, you know, taking over, it means that there is no demand for that.

1885
01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:34.920
And I think that with AI, we don't have less demand in terms of software, in terms of design.

1886
01:18:35.161 --> 01:18:35.940
I don't see this anywhere.

1887
01:18:37.623 --> 01:18:39.280
People are asking for more tools.

1888
01:18:39.460 --> 01:18:43.580
Maybe they're asking to design something maybe faster, quicker.

1889
01:18:44.403 --> 01:18:46.300
But it's not that we need less designers.

1890
01:18:46.701 --> 01:18:51.578
so we just we will have i think more work and it will change the way and also the the way

1891
01:18:53.444 --> 01:18:58.640
people ask like things like like maybe before they were asking for design maybe in two weeks

1892
01:18:58.880 --> 01:19:06.160
maybe now it's two three days right so this is my change but the number and the like the work i

1893
01:19:06.180 --> 01:19:11.800
think it will still be we will still still have to work for a while so and we can but we can take

1894
01:19:11.820 --> 01:19:18.260
a podcast once in a while yeah yeah i don't know i have worry about that all the time like will i

1895
01:19:18.300 --> 01:19:27.320
have a job i don't know uh i think i think that this is an era when we really can't overthink

1896
01:19:28.143 --> 01:19:32.740
we you see people who are the most successful ones are the people who are really focused on

1897
01:19:33.222 --> 01:19:37.920
the execution you see prime agency or like people are really focused on doing doing the thing

1898
01:19:38.665 --> 01:19:40.600
so I think that we should

1899
01:19:41.366 --> 01:19:42.940
stop overthinking in this era

1900
01:19:43.062 --> 01:19:44.500
like is it worth it or not

1901
01:19:45.146 --> 01:19:46.600
and just focus on doing the thing

1902
01:19:47.326 --> 01:19:48.859
so I think that's

1903
01:19:49.629 --> 01:19:50.400
a good strategy

1904
01:19:51.046 --> 01:19:52.560
yeah that's good advice

1905
01:19:54.153 --> 01:19:54.960
do you want to read any of these?

1906
01:19:55.080 --> 01:19:56.298
no I keep going dude I'm loving it

1907
01:19:56.770 --> 01:19:57.100
okay

1908
01:19:58.550 --> 01:19:59.557
where did I leave off let's see

1909
01:20:01.370 --> 01:20:02.880
do you use a VS

1910
01:20:03.001 --> 01:20:04.740
code based editor like VS code

1911
01:20:04.841 --> 01:20:06.598
cursor windsurf etc or something

1912
01:20:06.823 --> 01:20:07.016
else

1913
01:20:08.252 --> 01:20:08.960
I use VS Code

1914
01:20:09.404 --> 01:20:10.959
for now it does the job

1915
01:20:11.667 --> 01:20:12.658
again I don't want to

1916
01:20:13.384 --> 01:20:15.560
over two lies or if that's a word

1917
01:20:16.187 --> 01:20:17.320
so I prefer to keep it simple

1918
01:20:17.584 --> 01:20:18.659
I know that Courser exists

1919
01:20:19.084 --> 01:20:20.399
I know that Windsurf exists

1920
01:20:20.460 --> 01:20:22.031
so for now I'm more

1921
01:20:23.443 --> 01:20:24.098
focused on

1922
01:20:24.241 --> 01:20:26.139
understanding the things

1923
01:20:26.341 --> 01:20:28.720
I need to have time to go to conferences

1924
01:20:28.902 --> 01:20:30.840
so for now I really

1925
01:20:31.145 --> 01:20:32.060
stick to the basics

1926
01:20:32.947 --> 01:20:34.660
and it's the same thing that you asked before

1927
01:20:34.862 --> 01:20:36.160
with Codex so usually

1928
01:20:36.867 --> 01:20:38.200
if I decided to try a tool

1929
01:20:38.261 --> 01:20:39.819
or if I try to give it a go

1930
01:20:40.303 --> 01:20:42.140
with WinCell for Courser,

1931
01:20:42.220 --> 01:20:43.179
then I would use it for like

1932
01:20:43.846 --> 01:20:45.320
an extended amount of time.

1933
01:20:45.581 --> 01:20:47.780
So for now I'm sticking to VS Code

1934
01:20:47.861 --> 01:20:48.960
because it does the job.

1935
01:20:49.060 --> 01:20:51.080
I also use some JetBrains tools

1936
01:20:51.243 --> 01:20:52.279
for Rust, they are cool,

1937
01:20:52.882 --> 01:20:54.540
but that's already a lot for me.

1938
01:20:54.720 --> 01:20:55.460
So like I'm already trying

1939
01:20:55.541 --> 01:20:56.635
like two, three IDEs,

1940
01:20:57.521 --> 01:20:59.100
it's already a lot for me.

1941
01:20:59.201 --> 01:20:59.960
I use JetBrains,

1942
01:21:00.301 --> 01:21:03.340
I like it for some specific projects.

1943
01:21:04.425 --> 01:21:04.640
Gotcha.

1944
01:21:04.842 --> 01:21:06.520
Yeah, I use VS Code as well.

1945
01:21:06.740 --> 01:21:09.140
I tried Cursor, but I tried it when it first came out,

1946
01:21:09.200 --> 01:21:12.120
and it was not great then, but I've heard a lot of good things now.

1947
01:21:12.401 --> 01:21:14.180
But are we even developers if we're not using Vim?

1948
01:21:15.284 --> 01:21:15.880
That's the question.

1949
01:21:16.221 --> 01:21:17.500
Well, do you even need to type anymore?

1950
01:21:18.006 --> 01:21:18.240
Yeah.

1951
01:21:18.402 --> 01:21:18.919
You can just dictate.

1952
01:21:19.301 --> 01:21:20.019
Do we need an editor?

1953
01:21:20.522 --> 01:21:20.694
Yeah.

1954
01:21:21.020 --> 01:21:22.220
We don't need an editor anymore.

1955
01:21:22.300 --> 01:21:23.400
Yeah, you can just talk.

1956
01:21:23.480 --> 01:21:26.040
Like, I would like an app that does this, make no mistakes.

1957
01:21:26.342 --> 01:21:26.449
Yes.

1958
01:21:26.621 --> 01:21:27.219
And there's your app.

1959
01:21:27.884 --> 01:21:28.138
Exactly.

1960
01:21:31.022 --> 01:21:34.420
Okay, tabs on the left or top?

1961
01:21:35.164 --> 01:21:37.020
like in a browser, a terminal, et cetera?

1962
01:21:37.220 --> 01:21:39.240
Do you like tabs across the top or on the left side?

1963
01:21:39.644 --> 01:21:39.840
Okay.

1964
01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:41.574
Tabs on top.

1965
01:21:42.785 --> 01:21:43.219
It works.

1966
01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:44.419
Am I the freak one?

1967
01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:50.820
No, tabs on top, but the bar with the files on the right.

1968
01:21:51.542 --> 01:21:52.900
Oh, that is a follow-up question.

1969
01:21:53.566 --> 01:21:54.120
I'm sorry.

1970
01:21:54.861 --> 01:21:57.980
Is that because if you open and close it, it jumps?

1971
01:21:58.101 --> 01:21:59.996
No, so that's one of the reasons.

1972
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:06.080
But for me, the real reason, I was a left bar guy.

1973
01:22:07.521 --> 01:22:11.820
But I noticed that on the right, yeah, it doesn't move.

1974
01:22:12.060 --> 01:22:15.920
And also while I'm streaming, I put myself on the bottom right.

1975
01:22:16.460 --> 01:22:18.620
And then on top of me, I have the list of the files.

1976
01:22:19.340 --> 01:22:19.440
Yeah.

1977
01:22:19.740 --> 01:22:24.920
So this is also what made me decide to switch and go on the dark side, on the right side.

1978
01:22:25.260 --> 01:22:25.373
Nice.

1979
01:22:25.460 --> 01:22:32.499
Yeah, that's what Adam had mentioned that I hadn't considered is like if you're on the bottom right, you'd be covering some of the code possibly also.

1980
01:22:33.340 --> 01:22:34.500
So it's like, oh, that makes sense.

1981
01:22:35.623 --> 01:22:36.097
I don't know.

1982
01:22:36.200 --> 01:22:37.359
I never thought that much about it.

1983
01:22:40.005 --> 01:22:40.435
Let's see.

1984
01:22:41.462 --> 01:22:43.038
Google search or just ask an LLM?

1985
01:22:44.903 --> 01:22:46.473
I think it depends what you need to do.

1986
01:22:48.682 --> 01:22:57.320
now i think i use llms more than google i think for most of the tasks because i can i can ask a

1987
01:22:57.380 --> 01:23:03.580
following up question basically i always have many questions so yeah usually i like to have you know

1988
01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:10.520
separate chats i have like chats with like titles i don't know this is to for training this is for

1989
01:23:10.981 --> 01:23:18.620
to eat this is for conferences and then i keep separate shots and yeah makes sense i like the um

1990
01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:24.259
i still put most stuff in google but then the first thing it does is give it to gemini so it's like

1991
01:23:24.801 --> 01:23:30.900
i hate the ai mode of google i don't know why because i i end up using llms but because when

1992
01:23:31.000 --> 01:23:37.640
i am on google i don't want it's because i don't want to use the lms so the ai mode of google which

1993
01:23:37.640 --> 01:23:38.897
I think it's the first one.

1994
01:23:39.462 --> 01:23:40.020
Yes, it is.

1995
01:23:40.020 --> 01:23:40.357
I hate it.

1996
01:23:40.761 --> 01:23:41.200
I don't like it.

1997
01:23:41.220 --> 01:23:42.100
Can you opt out?

1998
01:23:42.200 --> 01:23:42.479
I don't know.

1999
01:23:42.581 --> 01:23:42.939
I haven't looked.

2000
01:23:43.600 --> 01:23:43.939
I don't know.

2001
01:23:44.080 --> 01:23:49.340
I should check, but for now it's there, and I don't want to use it.

2002
01:23:49.622 --> 01:23:49.731
Yeah.

2003
01:23:50.041 --> 01:23:56.560
I think still if you don't go on the AI mode, the first answer is AI anyway, I think.

2004
01:23:57.561 --> 01:23:58.799
But I don't like the...

2005
01:23:59.961 --> 01:24:02.800
Yeah, I do like that you can kind of follow up with it, though, like you were saying.

2006
01:24:02.940 --> 01:24:07.060
Like, if I didn't get my search quite right, then I can go, oh, well, what about this?

2007
01:24:07.486 --> 01:24:08.280
to get more info.

2008
01:24:08.440 --> 01:24:08.899
I like that.

2009
01:24:09.081 --> 01:24:09.980
I go, of course, on Google

2010
01:24:10.081 --> 01:24:12.194
when I need something on the edge.

2011
01:24:13.664 --> 01:24:15.000
For example, on the news.

2012
01:24:15.620 --> 01:24:18.180
For example, if when I get a new AI news,

2013
01:24:18.300 --> 01:24:19.720
maybe someone has been released

2014
01:24:20.025 --> 01:24:20.860
during this podcast.

2015
01:24:21.365 --> 01:24:22.100
Now, check it out.

2016
01:24:22.803 --> 01:24:24.700
And the first thing that I do usually

2017
01:24:24.740 --> 01:24:26.279
is I go on the Google News

2018
01:24:26.463 --> 01:24:27.119
and I search it.

2019
01:24:28.081 --> 01:24:29.560
This is usually the first thing I do.

2020
01:24:29.820 --> 01:24:30.559
And usually it works

2021
01:24:30.641 --> 01:24:32.540
because I get some latest news

2022
01:24:33.306 --> 01:24:34.900
about AI on Google Search.

2023
01:24:35.143 --> 01:24:36.240
Yeah, nice.

2024
01:24:38.084 --> 01:24:45.380
uh composition or inheritance what is inheritance no composition dude you got me i was like oh no

2025
01:24:47.286 --> 01:24:51.500
yeah so you don't like classes then what you don't like classes then

2026
01:24:52.864 --> 01:24:57.860
it's not that i don't like classes but uh i i don't know it's because maybe because i did

2027
01:24:58.321 --> 01:25:03.900
computer science degree and no they they told me like they were you know like the final destination

2028
01:25:04.241 --> 01:25:10.520
like the the final answer to all my problems but i still have many problems so that's they didn't

2029
01:25:10.660 --> 01:25:18.160
solve my coding problems so yeah classes are cool they're not evil but i see especially some

2030
01:25:18.802 --> 01:25:25.360
still see some junior developers that basically they've experienced what i did so they they tell

2031
01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:32.060
them that like this is like the answer to all your all your problems right and it's not yeah

2032
01:25:33.484 --> 01:25:39.660
yeah it is in school it was heavily inheritance based and i was uh yeah it's not the best you

2033
01:25:39.840 --> 01:25:45.640
find out there's a lot of foot guns from that approach so yes yeah for sure oh i got a new one

2034
01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:52.160
for the list okay when you run uh cloud code or whatever do you run it in yolo mode or do you

2035
01:25:52.420 --> 01:26:00.800
accept and manage all the permissions as it goes uh i think mostly yolo mode mostly except if i

2036
01:26:00.880 --> 01:26:05.480
have to do with something like very specific that can have some security issues if it's a side

2037
01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:10.440
project you know something that i do on a saturday night because you know nobody invited me to go to

2038
01:26:10.460 --> 01:26:17.000
a party so i stay at home in that case i go yolo mode if i do something that has to do with security

2039
01:26:17.161 --> 01:26:22.980
api especially api keys and something like that in that case i go i slow down of course

2040
01:26:23.281 --> 01:26:28.540
the answer is it depends nice yeah i always get worried in yolo mode like

2041
01:26:29.262 --> 01:26:35.720
what if it decides to delete everything and i'm not watching but i guess it doesn't usually do

2042
01:26:35.780 --> 01:26:44.820
that but yeah uh let's see npm or pnpm i hate this question because i am a rust developer so i

2043
01:26:44.940 --> 01:26:52.420
switched to rust because so i didn't have to answer this but again simplicity npm pnpm

2044
01:26:52.460 --> 01:26:52.642
Yarn

2045
01:26:53.961 --> 01:26:54.459
Tools

2046
01:26:54.965 --> 01:26:56.279
I think they also existed

2047
01:26:56.603 --> 01:26:57.839
Especially in the past

2048
01:26:58.707 --> 01:27:00.260
To replace the fact that NPM

2049
01:27:00.321 --> 01:27:01.960
Had some flows

2050
01:27:02.245 --> 01:27:02.999
Some problems

2051
01:27:03.312 --> 01:27:03.438
Right

2052
01:27:03.823 --> 01:27:05.819
But I think NPM improved enough

2053
01:27:06.765 --> 01:27:09.299
That it's good for most

2054
01:27:09.887 --> 01:27:10.720
For most of the developers

2055
01:27:11.164 --> 01:27:13.000
Of course we might have some edge cases

2056
01:27:13.081 --> 01:27:13.203
But

2057
01:27:15.397 --> 01:27:15.600
Again

2058
01:27:16.896 --> 01:27:17.200
And again

2059
01:27:17.868 --> 01:27:18.719
I like the fact that

2060
01:27:18.923 --> 01:27:19.440
Because you know

2061
01:27:19.501 --> 01:27:21.320
Maybe not everyone is a JavaScript developer

2062
01:27:21.402 --> 01:27:21.859
Right

2063
01:27:22.021 --> 01:27:24.580
Maybe they are a Python developer and they say, okay, what is this PMPM?

2064
01:27:24.660 --> 01:27:28.900
So I don't want people who are not JavaScript developers to get confused.

2065
01:27:29.782 --> 01:27:32.200
So I prefer to have something simple.

2066
01:27:32.743 --> 01:27:32.880
Yeah.

2067
01:27:33.040 --> 01:27:37.720
But I have some friends who are PMPM developers, so we can still be friends.

2068
01:27:38.200 --> 01:27:38.307
Yeah.

2069
01:27:38.820 --> 01:27:45.600
I think PMPM came out at a time where Yarn had gotten too complex and it was like, what if it was simpler again?

2070
01:27:46.261 --> 01:27:48.220
And so you've got some of the best of both.

2071
01:27:48.542 --> 01:27:50.660
But then, yeah, NPM has learned from both of them

2072
01:27:50.801 --> 01:27:52.380
and just put it all into NPM now.

2073
01:27:52.541 --> 01:27:53.340
So it doesn't really matter.

2074
01:27:53.740 --> 01:27:53.840
Yeah.

2075
01:27:54.360 --> 01:27:54.495
Yeah.

2076
01:27:57.182 --> 01:27:58.299
SCSS or SAS?

2077
01:28:00.764 --> 01:28:01.740
Plainly says Tailwind.

2078
01:28:03.663 --> 01:28:06.260
Why are you asking me these hard questions in front of Adam?

2079
01:28:06.784 --> 01:28:07.495
I'm not a CSS guy.

2080
01:28:09.203 --> 01:28:11.057
No, I think maybe SCSS.

2081
01:28:11.842 --> 01:28:12.179
I don't know.

2082
01:28:12.904 --> 01:28:13.691
It's not my main field.

2083
01:28:15.512 --> 01:28:15.699
Yeah.

2084
01:28:16.140 --> 01:28:17.540
So that's it.

2085
01:28:18.328 --> 01:28:19.398
sorry we can cut this one

2086
01:28:20.130 --> 01:28:20.599
that's fine

2087
01:28:21.509 --> 01:28:22.520
JSX or Jade?

2088
01:28:23.360 --> 01:28:23.754
JSX

2089
01:28:24.853 --> 01:28:25.239
that's nice

2090
01:28:25.665 --> 01:28:26.700
Anthropic or OpenAI?

2091
01:28:28.944 --> 01:28:30.639
which one I hate or I like more?

2092
01:28:31.485 --> 01:28:32.319
which one you like I guess

2093
01:28:33.746 --> 01:28:37.020
I think that lately I haven't used OpenAI at all

2094
01:28:37.831 --> 01:28:38.460
because usually

2095
01:28:39.505 --> 01:28:42.479
usually I use Anthropic to encode related things

2096
01:28:43.525 --> 01:28:45.696
Gemini for like you know the day-to-day job

2097
01:28:46.861 --> 01:28:53.540
job like or things like long things another one i think that not not many people use is grok

2098
01:28:54.122 --> 01:29:00.040
i use grok also because i have a twitter premium so i have grok plus or whatever is it called

2099
01:29:00.401 --> 01:29:06.340
yeah i like something i like about grok is that i think it's the best in comparing things or also

2100
01:29:06.400 --> 01:29:11.020
giving like hard feedback you know one of the problems with ai is that usually you can say like

2101
01:29:11.527 --> 01:29:12.400
Everything is amazing.

2102
01:29:12.420 --> 01:29:15.177
You get like too much, a little soft critics

2103
01:29:15.640 --> 01:29:17.496
to a blog or a post.

2104
01:29:17.940 --> 01:29:21.180
I find out that Grok is good at like telling you

2105
01:29:21.200 --> 01:29:22.516
that your thing sucks.

2106
01:29:22.882 --> 01:29:23.189
Nice.

2107
01:29:23.640 --> 01:29:24.378
So it is amazing.

2108
01:29:24.500 --> 01:29:25.516
It is, I think it's useful.

2109
01:29:25.820 --> 01:29:26.271
Yeah.

2110
01:29:26.660 --> 01:29:28.300
Like I wrote a book or I wrote a blog post,

2111
01:29:28.966 --> 01:29:30.176
like, is this good or not?

2112
01:29:30.722 --> 01:29:31.480
I asked Jamie, nice.

2113
01:29:31.480 --> 01:29:32.353
He's like, oh, it's very good.

2114
01:29:32.800 --> 01:29:34.157
Grok said like, it sucks.

2115
01:29:34.440 --> 01:29:35.796
You can improve this, this, this and this.

2116
01:29:36.221 --> 01:29:37.357
And I ended up saying like,

2117
01:29:37.620 --> 01:29:40.517
maybe the feedback was more constructive.

2118
01:29:41.342 --> 01:29:43.173
And I think this is what I use the most.

2119
01:29:45.647 --> 01:29:46.360
I like that feature.

2120
01:29:46.520 --> 01:29:49.020
So I haven't used Grok much, so I wasn't aware of that.

2121
01:29:49.360 --> 01:29:53.440
I started using it because Gemini started to have some weird bugs.

2122
01:29:54.140 --> 01:29:57.440
I think the one that I hated the most in Gemini, they finally fixed it.

2123
01:29:57.580 --> 01:30:00.200
I think it lasted for a couple of weeks.

2124
01:30:01.041 --> 01:30:05.840
When you paste an image, it goes out of focus.

2125
01:30:06.241 --> 01:30:13.100
then you had to like go with the mouse again and click to refocus on the thing and that drove me

2126
01:30:13.140 --> 01:30:19.020
crazy to try something else because i say why why it is they fixed it they still have sometimes they

2127
01:30:19.662 --> 01:30:25.080
does some weird stuff but again to when i want to get criticized now i use grok and also to compare

2128
01:30:25.241 --> 01:30:31.420
things i like it like like is this version better than this one it's usually it's a bit slow in

2129
01:30:31.460 --> 01:30:36.860
giving answers but and also i like to know to have another point of view maybe gemini has already

2130
01:30:37.041 --> 01:30:43.620
too much context so you know just uh just i know when you use a different browser to try to see if

2131
01:30:43.640 --> 01:30:50.660
you get a different uh a different set of results so yeah it's um but it's very unpopular and i don't

2132
01:30:50.700 --> 01:30:57.220
see many people doing this but uh it works for me i used it for a couple weeks during uh like when

2133
01:30:57.603 --> 01:30:59.260
Anthropic said you can't use your

2134
01:30:59.341 --> 01:31:01.360
Cloud code subscription with OpenCode

2135
01:31:01.461 --> 01:31:01.865
anymore.

2136
01:31:02.128 --> 01:31:03.260
So I was like, oh, Grok is

2137
01:31:03.341 --> 01:31:03.850
free on here.

2138
01:31:03.972 --> 01:31:04.460
So I did that.

2139
01:31:05.341 --> 01:31:07.119
Something that I don't like about Grok,

2140
01:31:07.320 --> 01:31:09.299
sorry, Elon, is that at some point

2141
01:31:09.663 --> 01:31:10.674
it just stops.

2142
01:31:10.755 --> 01:31:11.240
So you can't even

2143
01:31:11.321 --> 01:31:13.099
use the free model anymore.

2144
01:31:13.300 --> 01:31:15.100
So if you are in the middle of a conversation

2145
01:31:15.725 --> 01:31:17.420
with Grok, like with Gemini, you can still

2146
01:31:18.148 --> 01:31:19.159
talk, use a fast

2147
01:31:19.341 --> 01:31:20.959
mode, you know, poor mode,

2148
01:31:21.400 --> 01:31:22.779
whatever, and it still works.

2149
01:31:23.840 --> 01:31:24.835
Grok at some point just stops.

2150
01:31:24.855 --> 01:31:25.200
Probably they

2151
01:31:25.261 --> 01:31:27.220
want you to upgrade or doing something

2152
01:31:27.422 --> 01:31:29.280
Yeah, it doesn't warn you at all?

2153
01:31:29.800 --> 01:31:31.980
No, it just stops and says, like, I'll see you tomorrow.

2154
01:31:32.523 --> 01:31:32.695
Nice.

2155
01:31:33.462 --> 01:31:38.840
It has no compaction, its brain is overloaded, too much context, I just stop.

2156
01:31:39.445 --> 01:31:39.820
That's weird.

2157
01:31:40.923 --> 01:31:41.040
Yeah.

2158
01:31:43.941 --> 01:31:45.120
Hermes or Open Claw?

2159
01:31:46.900 --> 01:31:49.240
I think Open Claw, I think, for now.

2160
01:31:49.660 --> 01:31:50.399
Yeah, let's go.

2161
01:31:50.901 --> 01:31:53.639
Yeah, I haven't tried Hermes, so I have no opinion.

2162
01:31:55.202 --> 01:31:56.160
Crocs or flip-flops?

2163
01:31:57.508 --> 01:31:57.939
Flip-flops.

2164
01:31:58.642 --> 01:32:00.180
I also made a talk with flip-flops.

2165
01:32:00.360 --> 01:32:02.060
I still have to do a talk with Crocs.

2166
01:32:03.082 --> 01:32:04.220
So flip-flops is the way.

2167
01:32:04.640 --> 01:32:04.815
Nice.

2168
01:32:06.505 --> 01:32:07.480
East coast or west coast?

2169
01:32:08.523 --> 01:32:08.999
Based on what?

2170
01:32:09.582 --> 01:32:09.828
U.S.?

2171
01:32:10.362 --> 01:32:10.839
Yeah, U.S.

2172
01:32:11.101 --> 01:32:13.700
Okay, because the U.S. is the only thing that exists in the world, yes.

2173
01:32:16.043 --> 01:32:18.060
Why do you want half of the U.S. to hate me?

2174
01:32:19.403 --> 01:32:21.320
I mean, only half of them will hate you for your answer.

2175
01:32:21.682 --> 01:32:22.020
So, you know.

2176
01:32:22.382 --> 01:32:23.040
I don't know.

2177
01:32:23.481 --> 01:32:24.357
I don't know what to say.

2178
01:32:25.283 --> 01:32:26.800
Of course, I'd say east because we're in Miami.

2179
01:32:27.523 --> 01:32:28.919
Yeah, it's absolutely east.

2180
01:32:29.266 --> 01:32:29.480
Nice.

2181
01:32:31.302 --> 01:32:32.340
Dark or light factories?

2182
01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:34.160
Factories?

2183
01:32:34.422 --> 01:32:34.697
Yeah.

2184
01:32:35.484 --> 01:32:36.340
People don't know this term.

2185
01:32:36.881 --> 01:32:37.600
Well, I mean, light factories.

2186
01:32:37.600 --> 01:32:38.459
I feel like you made it up.

2187
01:32:38.946 --> 01:32:39.519
Where did you read it?

2188
01:32:39.661 --> 01:32:40.740
I definitely did not make it up.

2189
01:32:41.281 --> 01:32:49.320
A dark factory is there's these companies where they set up enough rules and enough for their LLMs that they don't even look at the code at all anymore.

2190
01:32:49.780 --> 01:32:53.960
So they have production applications that they've never looked at the code.

2191
01:32:54.181 --> 01:32:59.220
All they do is continue managing tests and linters and type checks and all these other things.

2192
01:32:59.380 --> 01:33:03.100
But as long as it works and the features that they want are there, they don't care about the code.

2193
01:33:03.420 --> 01:33:04.300
That's the dark factory.

2194
01:33:04.480 --> 01:33:07.120
So a light factory means you're looking at the code still.

2195
01:33:07.940 --> 01:33:08.118
Okay.

2196
01:33:08.620 --> 01:33:13.958
So basically the dark factory, their motto is what could go wrong for the dark factory, right?

2197
01:33:14.904 --> 01:33:15.014
Yeah.

2198
01:33:15.902 --> 01:33:17.640
So I didn't even know it was a thing.

2199
01:33:17.720 --> 01:33:18.539
So I learned something.

2200
01:33:18.760 --> 01:33:19.339
Today I learned.

2201
01:33:19.782 --> 01:33:24.960
So definitely a light factory for things, because things will go wrong.

2202
01:33:25.842 --> 01:33:28.120
That's the nature of software and things.

2203
01:33:28.780 --> 01:33:35.220
Coding is a part of creating software, but it's more about fixing things when things go wrong.

2204
01:33:35.480 --> 01:33:41.338
When I was working at the European Space Agency, a big project, the code was not trivial.

2205
01:33:42.140 --> 01:33:47.360
But once you do the software to download the pictures, you are basically done.

2206
01:33:48.021 --> 01:34:02.520
It was more about managing the things, problems, services that go down and turn them up, backup databases, data loss for we don't even know why they're not there.

2207
01:34:03.080 --> 01:34:06.060
So I think that's the nature of the production.

2208
01:34:07.440 --> 01:34:10.279
But I think big companies, they know this.

2209
01:34:11.220 --> 01:34:13.039
So light factors.

2210
01:34:14.035 --> 01:34:14.160
Yeah.

2211
01:34:14.642 --> 01:34:17.220
Maybe Amazon doesn't know this when AWS keeps going down.

2212
01:34:17.360 --> 01:34:19.259
but I don't know.

2213
01:34:20.482 --> 01:34:22.740
Now they can just blame AI when things go down.

2214
01:34:22.940 --> 01:34:24.240
Yeah, it is kind of convenient.

2215
01:34:24.582 --> 01:34:25.240
What a scapegoat.

2216
01:34:25.320 --> 01:34:26.260
It's like the new scapegoat.

2217
01:34:27.203 --> 01:34:29.180
I think we really lowered our standards.

2218
01:34:29.562 --> 01:34:30.320
I think 10 years ago,

2219
01:34:30.421 --> 01:34:32.174
if we had a service going down for hours,

2220
01:34:33.180 --> 01:34:34.420
we would have been crazy.

2221
01:34:34.840 --> 01:34:34.920
Yeah.

2222
01:34:35.101 --> 01:34:35.980
Now we are, I don't know,

2223
01:34:36.060 --> 01:34:36.680
maybe we are accepting,

2224
01:34:36.961 --> 01:34:38.139
we are becoming a little soft.

2225
01:34:38.622 --> 01:34:38.773
Yes.

2226
01:34:39.141 --> 01:34:40.880
We're desensitized from all the downtime

2227
01:34:41.001 --> 01:34:42.500
and all the news that's happening.

2228
01:34:42.601 --> 01:34:44.380
It's like, oh, did someone get shot down the street?

2229
01:34:44.742 --> 01:34:46.020
Okay, well, I still need to get groceries.

2230
01:34:46.161 --> 01:34:48.014
so I'll just walk around it.

2231
01:34:50.483 --> 01:34:52.840
But at least when I'll be old, I can say,

2232
01:34:53.560 --> 01:34:56.472
in my old times, we were supposed to have 99.99% of servers.

2233
01:34:58.621 --> 01:34:58.959
Yes.

2234
01:34:59.103 --> 01:34:59.716
Oh, man.

2235
01:35:00.620 --> 01:35:03.020
Yeah, GitHub just keeps going down more and more.

2236
01:35:03.802 --> 01:35:05.099
It's so, so scary.

2237
01:35:05.600 --> 01:35:08.300
I feel like, yeah, we wouldn't have put up with that like five years ago.

2238
01:35:08.460 --> 01:35:09.480
Everyone would have found something.

2239
01:35:09.560 --> 01:35:11.080
Go to GitLab or something else.

2240
01:35:11.220 --> 01:35:11.460
I don't know.

2241
01:35:11.662 --> 01:35:12.880
It's the move fasting, you know, maybe.

2242
01:35:13.063 --> 01:35:13.980
And also, you know what I noticed?

2243
01:35:14.180 --> 01:35:19.360
That before, when they had an outage, they were doing, you know, at least, like, you know, an excuse, a post.

2244
01:35:19.440 --> 01:35:21.915
At this point, it's just best effort, service.

2245
01:35:24.002 --> 01:35:26.700
Yeah, I think we were down a couple of hours.

2246
01:35:27.041 --> 01:35:27.398
Do whatever.

2247
01:35:28.205 --> 01:35:28.395
Okay.

2248
01:35:30.243 --> 01:35:31.640
They are trying to normalize this.

2249
01:35:32.040 --> 01:35:34.880
They're not even saying, I didn't say any apologize from GitHub.

2250
01:35:35.220 --> 01:35:35.700
They don't care.

2251
01:35:35.880 --> 01:35:35.949
No.

2252
01:35:36.360 --> 01:35:38.460
Well, people are using it anyway, so they don't care yet.

2253
01:35:38.460 --> 01:35:39.239
Yeah, whatever.

2254
01:35:39.780 --> 01:35:40.934
They're like, oops, we're sorry.

2255
01:35:41.460 --> 01:35:45.420
Yeah, they even saved some servers because they were down to save the money of the servers.

2256
01:35:45.440 --> 01:35:45.860
That's true.

2257
01:35:46.763 --> 01:35:49.060
I wonder how much money they saved while I was down.

2258
01:35:49.260 --> 01:35:50.519
Yeah, everyone's still paying, right?

2259
01:35:51.304 --> 01:35:51.600
Dang.

2260
01:35:52.140 --> 01:35:52.257
Yeah.

2261
01:35:52.901 --> 01:35:59.840
It is fun when you're doing a bunch of work and you try to do something on GitHub and it's down and you go, well, I'm just going to go outside for a while.

2262
01:35:59.940 --> 01:36:00.400
That's fine.

2263
01:36:00.785 --> 01:36:01.200
It's nice.

2264
01:36:02.365 --> 01:36:03.380
I think it's a feature.

2265
01:36:03.640 --> 01:36:08.280
So we can go out and call your mom, call your friends and say, how is it going?

2266
01:36:08.561 --> 01:36:09.358
How have you been so far?

2267
01:36:09.864 --> 01:36:10.317
It's a feature.

2268
01:36:11.005 --> 01:36:12.700
That makes me want to go Tyler Dern it on it.

2269
01:36:12.780 --> 01:36:13.300
Like if I can,

2270
01:36:13.420 --> 01:36:15.520
if I can take down GitHub for a week,

2271
01:36:15.981 --> 01:36:20.200
I'm gifting so many developers across the world of vacation.

2272
01:36:20.622 --> 01:36:21.520
I'm actually go hiking.

2273
01:36:21.640 --> 01:36:22.740
I will go hiking for sure.

2274
01:36:22.840 --> 01:36:23.100
That's what I mean.

2275
01:36:23.220 --> 01:36:23.780
Everyone's going to be like,

2276
01:36:23.841 --> 01:36:24.140
all right.

2277
01:36:24.725 --> 01:36:25.560
They just have to say,

2278
01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:27.640
we will be down for a week so we can,

2279
01:36:27.720 --> 01:36:27.900
you know,

2280
01:36:27.984 --> 01:36:28.318
relax.

2281
01:36:28.680 --> 01:36:28.789
Yeah.

2282
01:36:29.021 --> 01:36:29.660
Just have to say,

2283
01:36:29.801 --> 01:36:30.120
we'll be,

2284
01:36:30.180 --> 01:36:31.599
we'll be back in a week or so.

2285
01:36:34.174 --> 01:36:34.640
Was I late?

2286
01:36:34.762 --> 01:36:35.080
I don't know.

2287
01:36:35.140 --> 01:36:36.140
I tried to woo with them.

2288
01:36:36.181 --> 01:36:36.840
How long was that?

2289
01:36:37.001 --> 01:36:37.644
Let's see

2290
01:36:41.001 --> 01:36:43.636
I think that's most of what we had

2291
01:36:44.564 --> 01:36:45.620
I've got a question though for you

2292
01:36:45.620 --> 01:36:47.640
Because we're going to see you at Cascadia JS

2293
01:36:48.368 --> 01:36:49.420
That's going to be the west coast

2294
01:36:49.623 --> 01:36:50.860
And so when we ask you again

2295
01:36:50.941 --> 01:36:53.580
You better say west coast as your favorite

2296
01:36:53.784 --> 01:36:54.499
Not the east coast

2297
01:36:54.782 --> 01:36:56.500
But you know I can change my mind Adam

2298
01:36:57.307 --> 01:36:58.680
I have one month to change my mind

2299
01:36:58.781 --> 01:37:00.500
You know intelligent people

2300
01:37:00.601 --> 01:37:01.514
They change their mind

2301
01:37:02.242 --> 01:37:05.340
What a great way to start a sentence

2302
01:37:05.360 --> 01:37:06.979
and be like, well, dumb people choose this.

2303
01:37:07.360 --> 01:37:09.040
So I'm not going to, I'm choosing the smart one.

2304
01:37:09.120 --> 01:37:09.840
Which one are you choosing?

2305
01:37:09.960 --> 01:37:11.080
Oh, shit, I'm choosing the dumb one.

2306
01:37:11.160 --> 01:37:11.700
Now you guys, I'm dumb.

2307
01:37:11.881 --> 01:37:12.152
Oh, no!

2308
01:37:15.562 --> 01:37:16.680
What are you going to talk about there?

2309
01:37:17.020 --> 01:37:18.680
And again, what's happening for you here in Miami?

2310
01:37:18.840 --> 01:37:19.820
Anything you want to recap?

2311
01:37:20.001 --> 01:37:21.080
Anything that's been exciting?

2312
01:37:22.062 --> 01:37:22.840
What's in your life right now?

2313
01:37:23.040 --> 01:37:25.780
Yes, so Miami has been a really great experience.

2314
01:37:25.900 --> 01:37:27.114
I was supposed to come here in 2022,

2315
01:37:28.021 --> 01:37:28.900
but then I didn't make it.

2316
01:37:29.001 --> 01:37:30.700
Then 2023, okay, next year.

2317
01:37:31.367 --> 01:37:32.199
2024, okay, next year.

2318
01:37:32.360 --> 01:37:32.969
2025, okay, next year.

2319
01:37:34.402 --> 01:37:40.900
so I don't know if I finally I made it happen so I'm here and it was it really matched my

2320
01:37:41.060 --> 01:37:48.420
expectations I had very meaningful conversations the I like the dichotomy of being like a very

2321
01:37:48.520 --> 01:37:54.820
technical conference but also social usually you have just one of the two things mostly social

2322
01:37:55.903 --> 01:38:02.660
I like it it's not too big and I hate myself when there is a multi-track conference I meet

2323
01:38:02.720 --> 01:38:07.240
my friends and I tell them like yes I will come to your talk 100% and then I just forget because

2324
01:38:07.260 --> 01:38:12.000
I don't know someone invited me to a podcast or something like that so in this case you know with

2325
01:38:12.020 --> 01:38:18.440
just one stage it's harder to miss my friends my first talks yeah and yeah and I met so many

2326
01:38:18.520 --> 01:38:24.720
friends one is Pauline from Versailles which is here and I met I've been chatting with her since

2327
01:38:24.780 --> 01:38:31.660
2019 then we started going to conferences but we never met before like like like are you going to

2328
01:38:31.761 --> 01:38:33.800
this conference, yes, and then at the last moment,

2329
01:38:33.860 --> 01:38:35.000
I don't know, someone had a problem.

2330
01:38:35.441 --> 01:38:37.919
So we've been missing each other for like three years.

2331
01:38:38.741 --> 01:38:39.319
I started to think,

2332
01:38:39.642 --> 01:38:41.220
so I will never meet her.

2333
01:38:41.662 --> 01:38:43.760
And we finally made it, so that was really worth it.

2334
01:38:44.843 --> 01:38:45.940
And yes, and the other question,

2335
01:38:46.042 --> 01:38:47.200
sorry, my memory is really short.

2336
01:38:47.280 --> 01:38:49.540
Oh, it's Cascadia.js, but I mean, happy ending you just shared.

2337
01:38:49.721 --> 01:38:50.399
That's kind of nice, yeah.

2338
01:38:50.861 --> 01:38:53.800
So at Cascadia.js, I will be a keynote speaker

2339
01:38:54.022 --> 01:38:55.397
and I will bring the situation

2340
01:38:56.144 --> 01:38:57.780
of Rust for web development,

2341
01:38:58.280 --> 01:38:59.339
which is a very hard,

2342
01:38:59.820 --> 01:39:01.620
this probably will be my hardest talk ever,

2343
01:39:01.961 --> 01:39:07.840
also because I will bring this talk to mostly a JavaScript, let's say, audience.

2344
01:39:08.742 --> 01:39:10.260
But I really want to bring something that,

2345
01:39:10.340 --> 01:39:14.920
because I've been preaching and talking about that Rust is meaningful for web development

2346
01:39:15.603 --> 01:39:19.640
since 2022 when people called me like crazy and freak.

2347
01:39:20.602 --> 01:39:23.960
Now it makes more sense and we are going more into that direction.

2348
01:39:24.160 --> 01:39:27.020
So I think it's a valid option, especially for backend,

2349
01:39:27.441 --> 01:39:29.060
also for frontend with WebAssembly.

2350
01:39:29.160 --> 01:39:33.760
But let's say, again, I think that it's still the best combo.

2351
01:39:33.960 --> 01:39:37.760
It's still TypeScript on the front end and Rust on the back end.

2352
01:39:38.020 --> 01:39:38.519
Why not Kotlin?

2353
01:39:40.341 --> 01:39:41.780
The real question is why Kotlin?

2354
01:39:43.143 --> 01:39:43.713
I used Kotlin.

2355
01:39:44.220 --> 01:39:47.700
I think I am the only – if you search on Google Kotlin REST API,

2356
01:39:47.880 --> 01:39:50.260
I think the only video on Google is mine.

2357
01:39:50.780 --> 01:39:52.175
So I used Kotlin to make a video.

2358
01:39:52.781 --> 01:39:54.120
So you've been there, hated that.

2359
01:39:56.766 --> 01:39:58.340
Was that a real question or not?

2360
01:39:58.380 --> 01:40:00.089
Kotlin is just a language

2361
01:40:02.061 --> 01:40:04.040
that can be used in some specific

2362
01:40:04.181 --> 01:40:06.300
environments, it's basically Java in disguise

2363
01:40:06.624 --> 01:40:07.838
Kotlin, so it's just Java

2364
01:40:08.040 --> 01:40:10.080
on steroids, a bit less steroids than

2365
01:40:10.161 --> 01:40:11.200
Go, but yeah

2366
01:40:12.851 --> 01:40:14.019
I would try to convince people that

2367
01:40:14.970 --> 01:40:15.799
using Rust as a

2368
01:40:16.001 --> 01:40:18.079
web developer in 2026 is not that

2369
01:40:18.202 --> 01:40:18.839
crazy anymore

2370
01:40:20.188 --> 01:40:22.020
and if I get punched in the face

2371
01:40:22.101 --> 01:40:24.100
I will just take it, and I'll just make

2372
01:40:24.606 --> 01:40:25.255
an apology video

2373
01:40:26.651 --> 01:40:26.894
no, it's

2374
01:40:27.522 --> 01:40:29.040
but I can't wait.

2375
01:40:29.480 --> 01:40:31.900
Thanks for reminding me that I still have to ultimate my slides,

2376
01:40:32.100 --> 01:40:33.980
but I have still 40 days or so.

2377
01:40:34.483 --> 01:40:35.120
Plenty of time.

2378
01:40:36.167 --> 01:40:36.400
Awesome.

2379
01:40:36.861 --> 01:40:38.260
Yeah, we have to figure out what we're going to do.

2380
01:40:38.320 --> 01:40:39.260
We're going to MC there.

2381
01:40:41.084 --> 01:40:42.120
Yeah, we don't know how we're doing it yet,

2382
01:40:42.160 --> 01:40:42.680
but we'll figure it out.

2383
01:40:42.702 --> 01:40:42.897
Nice.

2384
01:40:44.327 --> 01:40:44.880
So see you there.

2385
01:40:45.145 --> 01:40:45.297
Yes.

2386
01:40:45.560 --> 01:40:46.780
Are you doing the podcast there?

2387
01:40:48.120 --> 01:40:48.478
TBD.

2388
01:40:49.502 --> 01:40:51.880
We're definitely not doing it the whole time.

2389
01:40:52.062 --> 01:40:53.199
We might do an episode or two,

2390
01:40:53.380 --> 01:40:54.280
but we haven't figured it out yet.

2391
01:40:54.300 --> 01:40:56.099
It'd be way overkill if we were MCs

2392
01:40:56.445 --> 01:40:57.400
and trying to podcast.

2393
01:40:57.500 --> 01:40:59.740
We could just podcast on stage the whole time

2394
01:40:59.881 --> 01:41:01.820
and just introduce people as they come up.

2395
01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:02.229
Oh, nice.

2396
01:41:02.250 --> 01:41:02.618
Interesting.

2397
01:41:04.200 --> 01:41:05.265
No, you mean, you know, during the breaks,

2398
01:41:08.541 --> 01:41:11.260
instead of relaxing, you just do also the podcast.

2399
01:41:11.400 --> 01:41:11.512
Yeah.

2400
01:41:11.923 --> 01:41:12.093
Yeah.

2401
01:41:13.747 --> 01:41:14.600
I don't think I could do that.

2402
01:41:14.740 --> 01:41:16.537
You just need some drugs just to stay up.

2403
01:41:17.887 --> 01:41:18.420
Can be done, yeah.

2404
01:41:19.020 --> 01:41:19.130
Yeah.

2405
01:41:20.646 --> 01:41:21.260
All right, cool.

2406
01:41:21.380 --> 01:41:22.240
Thanks for stopping by.

2407
01:41:22.881 --> 01:41:25.100
Anything else that you want to mention, plug,

2408
01:41:25.389 --> 01:41:25.740
talk about?

2409
01:41:26.403 --> 01:41:28.039
No, I would say that

2410
01:41:29.389 --> 01:41:31.020
I really believe in in-person events.

2411
01:41:31.741 --> 01:41:32.697
I think it's one of the few

2412
01:41:32.900 --> 01:41:35.240
podcasts that I did live.

2413
01:41:35.540 --> 01:41:36.800
So thanks for having me.

2414
01:41:37.463 --> 01:41:38.955
I think it's just a different vibe,

2415
01:41:39.880 --> 01:41:40.740
different experience.

2416
01:41:41.360 --> 01:41:43.080
I'm not saying that social media are bad, of course.

2417
01:41:43.181 --> 01:41:44.152
I would be...

2418
01:41:45.041 --> 01:41:45.971
It would not be true.

2419
01:41:46.496 --> 01:41:46.880
But I think

2420
01:41:47.103 --> 01:41:48.480
going to conferences really

2421
01:41:49.125 --> 01:41:50.798
is the answer to all

2422
01:41:51.141 --> 01:41:52.600
this AI stress

2423
01:41:52.882 --> 01:41:54.839
and fear of getting

2424
01:41:55.120 --> 01:42:01.560
replaced because it creates real connections with people yeah what i really like about conferences

2425
01:42:02.541 --> 01:42:07.360
what i really like about tech conferences that you don't talk about tech every time we had like

2426
01:42:07.480 --> 01:42:13.800
a meaningful conversation for example with adam yesterday something that is not just just frameworks

2427
01:42:14.060 --> 01:42:21.760
and tools and tips and code but more about the human being part but in person it's it's different

2428
01:42:21.860 --> 01:42:25.880
Because I understand because I am one of the people on social media.

2429
01:42:26.060 --> 01:42:29.720
They talk about development because this is our job, our career.

2430
01:42:30.563 --> 01:42:33.060
In person, we can focus more on the non-tech thing.

2431
01:42:33.621 --> 01:42:34.799
So this is why I like it.

2432
01:42:35.300 --> 01:42:36.260
Yeah, for sure.

2433
01:42:36.440 --> 01:42:39.340
Yeah, getting to know people, the people behind the developers.

2434
01:42:39.760 --> 01:42:40.078
Exactly.

2435
01:42:40.640 --> 01:42:43.540
Developers are actually real people, which is weird.

2436
01:42:44.020 --> 01:42:44.140
Yeah.

2437
01:42:45.549 --> 01:42:45.879
All right.

2438
01:42:46.121 --> 01:42:46.860
Thanks for coming on.

2439
01:42:46.980 --> 01:42:47.840
Thanks, everyone, for listening.

2440
01:42:47.960 --> 01:42:49.720
If you liked it, please subscribe, leave some ratings and reviews.

2441
01:42:50.870 --> 01:42:52.100
Yes, I don't know what I'm saying

2442
01:42:52.527 --> 01:42:53.340
We'll see you later

2443
01:42:53.522 --> 01:42:55.020
Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe

2444
01:42:55.221 --> 01:42:56.147
Congratulations citizen

2445
01:42:58.664 --> 01:43:00.620
You are now prepared to face the challenges

2446
01:43:00.822 --> 01:43:02.379
Of the modern technological world

2447
01:43:02.844 --> 01:43:04.639
With the proper tools, a steady hand

2448
01:43:04.983 --> 01:43:06.620
And a reasonably configured terminal

2449
01:43:07.065 --> 01:43:08.380
Any developer can orchestrate

2450
01:43:08.542 --> 01:43:10.000
AI agents with confidence

2451
01:43:10.626 --> 01:43:11.879
You'll do just fine

2452
01:43:12.544 --> 01:43:14.920
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2453
01:43:15.284 --> 01:43:16.499
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2454
01:43:16.703 --> 01:43:17.559
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2455
01:43:18.202 --> 01:43:22.740
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2456
01:43:23.180 --> 01:43:28.140
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2457
01:43:28.421 --> 01:43:31.379
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