WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.411 --> 00:00:04.692 Over 50% of couples in the US go into debt when it comes to their wedding. 2 00:00:05.252 --> 00:00:07.273 And when we saw the stat, we thought, surely not. 3 00:00:07.513 --> 00:00:13.634 Hopefully our audience is financially a little bit more educated and not going into debt for this big special day. 4 00:00:13.734 --> 00:00:18.035 But it really got us thinking, oh my goodness, like what are people spending money on? 5 00:00:18.075 --> 00:00:19.636 What do they regret spending money on? 6 00:00:19.656 --> 00:00:21.556 What are they glad that they spent on? 7 00:00:21.836 --> 00:00:24.517 So we did a massive data collection with our whole audience. 8 00:00:25.117 --> 00:00:29.021 Thank you so much to everyone that anonymously gave us their information. 9 00:00:29.061 --> 00:00:35.288 If you do want to download and see all of those responses, we've collated everything. 10 00:00:36.129 --> 00:00:39.192 It's fascinating to see what people spend and all of that. 11 00:00:39.212 --> 00:00:41.274 So we will link that in the podcast show notes. 12 00:00:41.334 --> 00:00:47.721 But thank you so much to Margie Ritterford, who is the co-founder of Vale, an amazing wedding magazine in New Zealand and Australia, who... 13 00:00:48.101 --> 00:01:13.055 came on for this podcast to talk about wedding traditions what we found from the curve audience as well as the more global trends around what people are spending money on and and how we're actually approaching the big day we don't do this very often but we do have a prize so if you stay listening to the end of this episode you can find out how you can win a fun little package thanks to veil magazine the curve and milk books 14 00:01:16.153 --> 00:01:21.697 This episode that we are about to get into has been in the pipeline for honestly a really long time, hasn't it? 15 00:01:21.997 --> 00:01:24.358 I'm joined by Margie, who's the co-founder of Veil. 16 00:01:24.639 --> 00:01:26.620 Thank you for having me on, Soph. 17 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:34.225 I'm really excited to have this discussion around a topic that is very close to my heart and I think is really important. 18 00:01:34.625 --> 00:01:45.032 And obviously with Veil, we are a publication and platform that is focused around weddings and love and relationships and all of those things kind of between and beyond. 19 00:01:45.252 --> 00:01:54.565 And I deal in my day-to-day with the culture around weddings, but not often do we have transparent conversations around the costs of weddings. 20 00:01:54.605 --> 00:02:00.052 And it's so important because it's a massive, massive factor as to whether someone can have weddings 21 00:02:00.352 --> 00:02:03.774 a wedding or what their wedding might look like, how they execute it. 22 00:02:03.895 --> 00:02:15.943 And it's so interesting because I think one of my favorite things about the curb is actually how engaged the audience is in giving us feedback and being really honest with what they think, feel, what they've spent on things. 23 00:02:15.983 --> 00:02:23.748 And so we ran an anonymous, almost like data gathering survey to understand what people are spending on, what they regretted. 24 00:02:24.188 --> 00:02:27.371 And it was absolutely fascinating going through that. 25 00:02:28.051 --> 00:02:29.912 the results and the stats that came from that. 26 00:02:29.932 --> 00:02:38.818 Because obviously when we were planning this episode, Margie and I were looking at global statistics around how much people in different countries on average are spending on weddings and all of that. 27 00:02:38.838 --> 00:02:44.701 But to then compare it to the Curve community and see if that lines up was really interesting. 28 00:02:44.761 --> 00:02:45.002 So... 29 00:02:45.742 --> 00:03:02.872 Today's conversation is definitely about the cost of weddings, but actually also just zooming out and talking about the cultural nuance and the pressure and the way that the whole industry has evolved so much in the last 10 years particularly. 30 00:03:03.113 --> 00:03:09.777 I think firstly, what is your take on the industry where it's at right now and the trends that you're seeing and... 31 00:03:10.397 --> 00:03:13.999 I don't know, just a zoomed out perspective on the entire industry? 32 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:36.308 It's a really interesting question because I think it immediately cuts to the heart of the kind of fascinating paradox at the heart of the wedding industry, which is pairing up of this wedding industrial complex, which we will talk about a lot, obviously, in this conversation, which comes with, you know, the economics around weddings, the 33 00:03:36.668 --> 00:03:54.117 the brands involved, the vendors, the industry that surrounds a wedding, but then also balancing that with this idea that a wedding really is a ceremony and a ritual that humans have been partaking in since civilizations really existed and probably in their own ways pre-civilization. 34 00:03:54.238 --> 00:04:02.482 I mean, it's essentially at its heart this kind of deeply human existence 35 00:04:02.702 --> 00:04:09.148 acknowledgement and commitment to not go through life alone. 36 00:04:10.229 --> 00:04:11.750 It's such a beautiful way to put it. 37 00:04:11.810 --> 00:04:20.118 And I really think that I've forgotten that and lost track of that within the marquees and the flowers and the cost involved. 38 00:04:20.398 --> 00:04:21.699 I think a lot of people do. 39 00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:26.544 And I think that is where a lot of the kind of angst, 40 00:04:27.670 --> 00:04:39.318 originates when people think about weddings and the costs and the this and that and the other thing and coming into doing Vale, not really from a wedding background myself and looking at it with fresh eyes. 41 00:04:39.359 --> 00:04:47.244 I think for me, it's so clear what's important and, and getting back down to the roots of like what a wedding is. 42 00:04:47.544 --> 00:04:54.449 As soon as I heard you answer that question, I felt immediately really connected to the idea of marriage and what it means and, 43 00:04:55.490 --> 00:05:08.262 But I also think if we extrapolate out as we're talking about weddings and marriage has been around for a really long time, but actually when it first originated, it was more of a legal economic arrangement. 44 00:05:08.362 --> 00:05:19.592 And I think that that has evolved and shifted over time and people have now created new meanings of what marriage and a wedding is to them, whether you're religious, whether there's... 45 00:05:20.392 --> 00:05:21.574 cultural connections. 46 00:05:21.594 --> 00:05:25.699 Like obviously there's so many different ways that weddings show up around the world. 47 00:05:26.540 --> 00:05:35.031 And I think at its core now what it's turned into is while it's still a legal commitment and it still is for a lot of people – 48 00:05:35.552 --> 00:05:46.555 an economic arrangement as well, because let's be honest, right now it feels almost impossible to try and raise a family, if that's what you want to do, without two incomes. 49 00:05:46.655 --> 00:05:55.457 And also then there's the conversation of prenups, like when you get married, you are legally connecting all of your assets unless you arrange otherwise. 50 00:05:56.177 --> 00:06:09.745 So one of the things that I really struggle with is the interconnectedness of the legal side and the finances, while then also that really beautiful human connection and that commitment to witness somebody's life. 51 00:06:10.465 --> 00:06:12.927 What you're talking about in terms of prenups... 52 00:06:13.827 --> 00:06:25.097 the machinations of what a financial kind of setup looks like in a marriage is really something that you probably have to nut out with your partner very separately from your wedding. 53 00:06:25.797 --> 00:06:29.120 And I think in my mind, the two exist differently. 54 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:30.260 Very separately. 55 00:06:30.280 --> 00:06:34.342 I mean, you think about the way the modern couples function now. 56 00:06:34.362 --> 00:06:41.364 A lot of the time, people are financially married long before they walk down an aisle or plan an event. 57 00:06:41.564 --> 00:06:44.945 The evolution has happened whereby the two are so separate now. 58 00:06:45.265 --> 00:06:50.867 Some of the time I'm conflicted about the idea of it's really beautiful to have tradition that evolves and changes. 59 00:06:51.547 --> 00:07:01.371 And then I come up against this almost feminism in me that's questioning whether or not I should be doing or how I, you know, even the idea of being walked down the aisle. 60 00:07:01.431 --> 00:07:04.672 I was thinking about before this episode, you know, it was. 61 00:07:05.252 --> 00:07:07.493 being walked down by your father. 62 00:07:07.513 --> 00:07:09.255 I mean, I adore my dad. 63 00:07:09.315 --> 00:07:14.458 I know he would be so excited at the idea of having this moment of walking me down the aisle. 64 00:07:14.478 --> 00:07:21.582 But if you think about it, it's my dad who owns me, giving me away to my now husband who owns me. 65 00:07:21.662 --> 00:07:22.183 And I just... 66 00:07:22.883 --> 00:07:35.088 I find it really hard to reconcile this new idea of what a wedding has developed into and the tradition and the value in it and extrapolating that from the origins. 67 00:07:35.508 --> 00:07:37.909 Did you question those things when you got married? 68 00:07:38.069 --> 00:07:46.412 It's whether you want to take on and internalize that kind of old school meaning of it or go, 69 00:07:47.768 --> 00:07:51.870 okay, let's just like strip things down to like brass tacks right now. 70 00:07:52.370 --> 00:07:53.411 Why are we doing this? 71 00:07:53.731 --> 00:08:00.694 Okay, we're doing this because we really want to show our family and friends how much we love each other. 72 00:08:01.315 --> 00:08:06.457 And we want to have a moment that becomes almost like this ground zero of the rest of our life. 73 00:08:06.497 --> 00:08:12.260 This is the point that we made this connection and commitment and our life has gone from there. 74 00:08:12.840 --> 00:08:23.804 So I think if your values are there and that's what is important to you, then you can twist those traditions to fit your own kind of value system. 75 00:08:23.904 --> 00:08:29.466 A wedding now is just the ultimate creative expression of who a couple is. 76 00:08:30.027 --> 00:08:31.287 That's a really beautiful answer. 77 00:08:31.327 --> 00:08:31.947 I love that. 78 00:08:32.167 --> 00:08:33.408 It also makes me feel... 79 00:08:34.188 --> 00:08:42.512 absolutely overwhelmed with like, God, well, shit, I'm going to have to take a real effort if I get married, like with really thinking about it. 80 00:08:42.532 --> 00:08:47.474 Because in my head, I thought, I think I'm going to abdicate from all organizing. 81 00:08:47.514 --> 00:08:49.035 I think I'm going to just be like, do you know what? 82 00:08:49.315 --> 00:08:49.815 I don't care. 83 00:08:50.195 --> 00:08:53.077 All I want is some sunflowers and people to have a really fun dance. 84 00:08:53.157 --> 00:09:10.048 I would love to slightly start introducing the conversation of money and cost because I think when you talk about stripping out the pressure and doing something that feels like you, weirdly it makes me feel pressure because it's the idea of like, well, you want it to be so yourself. 85 00:09:10.088 --> 00:09:12.250 So then you're like, oh God, well now I've got to make it so myself. 86 00:09:12.990 --> 00:09:20.372 I'm sure there's a lot of people that have been married who felt like it was the most stressful organizing of their whole life. 87 00:09:20.412 --> 00:09:24.233 And then some that just it was actually the most fun, the best experience ever. 88 00:09:24.314 --> 00:09:27.595 But just quickly, I actually want to go over some of the averages. 89 00:09:27.655 --> 00:09:34.557 So we looked at these in terms of our top sort of three areas where our listeners are, which is New Zealand, Australia and the UK. 90 00:09:35.797 --> 00:09:36.958 And actually also the US. 91 00:09:36.978 --> 00:09:55.116 So in New Zealand, this is 2025 statistics, the average spent on a wedding was $87,600, which just to put that in perspective, so that's like not far off $100,000 being the average, which to be honest, I was kind of shocked by. 92 00:09:55.897 --> 00:09:59.839 That's up from about $58,000 only two years earlier. 93 00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:04.200 So when I hear that, I think, oh, my goodness, there's been such an enormous inflation. 94 00:10:04.220 --> 00:10:05.481 And we can get to that in a second. 95 00:10:05.521 --> 00:10:07.302 But just to touch on some of the other averages. 96 00:10:07.342 --> 00:10:18.727 So here in the UK, $25,000 is the average, which actually when you then turn that into, say, New Zealand or Australian dollars, it's actually less than the average in New Zealand, which I thought was quite interesting. 97 00:10:18.747 --> 00:10:18.847 Yeah. 98 00:10:20.548 --> 00:10:24.852 In the U.S., it's 35,000, which is probably a little bit closer to the New Zealand average. 99 00:10:25.153 --> 00:10:36.265 But I think the statistic that really I just felt like, oh, this is really concerning, is that 56% of U.S. couples in 2024 went into debt for their wedding. 100 00:10:36.625 --> 00:10:40.269 And one in three couples regretted how much they spent. 101 00:10:42.563 --> 00:10:47.827 There's so much to dig into here, and we obviously have done a big survey with our audience. 102 00:10:47.848 --> 00:10:56.335 We're going to check to see if that also stands up in terms of the similarities between those overarching statistics and what the curve audience spent regretted, what their average is. 103 00:10:56.495 --> 00:11:02.700 But, Margie, as someone who works in the industry, can we speak to what is driving that cost up so significantly? 104 00:11:02.980 --> 00:11:05.783 I think now weddings are huge. 105 00:11:06.143 --> 00:11:08.125 Yeah, they're like a brand event, really. 106 00:11:08.145 --> 00:11:11.668 A lot of the big ones, how they're put on and the ways that they are run. 107 00:11:11.949 --> 00:11:15.512 And I do think the biggest driver of that really is social media. 108 00:11:15.752 --> 00:11:24.160 A friend of mine who has been a real help to me as we've, you know, been building Vale and launching Vale, Lace Bolland from Place of LB, who's an amazing, amazing wedding artist. 109 00:11:24.460 --> 00:11:27.423 planner in Australia, does all the big weddings over there. 110 00:11:28.024 --> 00:11:36.473 And when I asked her about it, she really pointed to that event thing too because they work across massive brand campaigns and events as well as weddings. 111 00:11:36.854 --> 00:11:41.679 And she said to me that never before has she seen such a clear crossover. 112 00:11:41.699 --> 00:11:41.799 Yeah. 113 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:44.002 Should we actually play a voice note from her? 114 00:11:44.102 --> 00:11:48.388 So just so everyone knows, this is Lace Bollin who has placed with LB. 115 00:11:48.428 --> 00:11:51.091 She runs it with her husband, Doug, in Australia. 116 00:11:51.151 --> 00:11:58.361 They have become one of the biggest, most sought-after winning planners in Australia and globally. 117 00:11:58.963 --> 00:12:02.904 I feel like with weddings at the moment, there absolutely is general inflation. 118 00:12:03.004 --> 00:12:04.485 It's the cost of living everywhere. 119 00:12:05.005 --> 00:12:06.325 Petrol is more expensive. 120 00:12:06.826 --> 00:12:08.146 Goods are more expensive. 121 00:12:08.606 --> 00:12:12.847 I feel like there is a natural inflation almost every year, the same as with every business. 122 00:12:12.887 --> 00:12:16.309 Businesses are generally going to put their prices up each year or their packages. 123 00:12:16.369 --> 00:12:17.029 So I feel like 124 00:12:17.849 --> 00:12:25.114 There is definitely that, but I feel like globally, whether a wedding or event, there is a genuine focus on event production now. 125 00:12:25.274 --> 00:12:37.122 So I feel like even since we've been doing this six years, you rarely saw weddings online, you know, whereas now every brand has a wedding line or they do dresses or they do the welcome dress or they're, you know, 126 00:12:37.842 --> 00:12:40.983 even for menswear, they're branching into there's more suit companies. 127 00:12:41.063 --> 00:12:44.443 And so I feel like there is a general trend around production. 128 00:12:44.623 --> 00:12:55.466 This is where I think there's a really big blur and miscommunication where I see it's too trend driven and the wedding has lost total meaning of who that couple is. 129 00:12:56.006 --> 00:12:56.166 Yeah. 130 00:12:56.186 --> 00:13:02.587 Like I can look at a wedding or an event and go, that is totally that couple, or I can go, I can pick the Pinterest image that came from. 131 00:13:03.127 --> 00:13:04.907 And I think that's the big issue at the moment 132 00:13:07.908 --> 00:13:10.530 You're not going to get unique from looking at Pinterest and things like that. 133 00:13:10.630 --> 00:13:19.157 I feel like it has to always be about the client, the general growth of social media and all these different platforms like between Pinterest, TikTok, Instagram. 134 00:13:19.197 --> 00:13:25.522 I think it's just slowly built a groundswell over the past few years because there's more visibility on these things, you know. 135 00:13:25.962 --> 00:13:34.589 When fashion week's on, you know, it's every brand is teasing it through socials and even via iPhone, you know, it's not even about the polished content anymore. 136 00:13:34.629 --> 00:13:40.753 It's like eight years ago, we would produce the most epic Chanel runway show, but no one was watching it unless you were there. 137 00:13:41.294 --> 00:13:45.057 Whereas now we're watching it as the people in the front row are. 138 00:13:45.077 --> 00:13:49.180 So I think you get to watch it straight away, you know, and everyone gets access to that. 139 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:52.143 I completely agree with what she's saying on social media. 140 00:13:52.964 --> 00:14:06.817 It's just really interesting to me that there's parallels between the idea of a brand event or the, I mean, you see so many like incredible brand events now, whether it's a weekend away somewhere and they transform the entire hotel into the... 141 00:14:07.458 --> 00:14:12.059 Tala Hotel or whatever, you know, it's – or all the stuff you've seen Rode do. 142 00:14:12.119 --> 00:14:25.762 It's absolutely – it's so creative and it's so clever and it creates a real feeling around a brand, the visuals, the way that it shows up in the world and how people associate with that product or brand or whatever it is. 143 00:14:26.622 --> 00:14:28.863 And it's really interesting because hearing you say – 144 00:14:29.763 --> 00:14:33.827 you can sort of reshape the wedding or your event to represent you. 145 00:14:34.648 --> 00:14:39.554 It's almost like if you then extrapolate that out and think of, okay, well, you and your partner are the brand. 146 00:14:40.575 --> 00:14:43.398 How is that then being replicated in the form of a wedding? 147 00:14:43.438 --> 00:14:45.940 But yeah, as you say, it's actually just an event. 148 00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:51.646 It's the event of Mr. and Mrs. or Mrs. and Mrs. or Mr. and Mr. you know, and so, 149 00:14:52.447 --> 00:14:59.934 Yeah, that's a really interesting through line that people are almost spending the same amount of money as these global brands are. 150 00:15:00.194 --> 00:15:07.980 I think it's really interesting, this whole thing with social media as well, because I wonder if for some couples, right, who – 151 00:15:08.721 --> 00:15:13.766 have made a massive financial commitment and contribution to their wedding. 152 00:15:14.246 --> 00:15:27.178 I wonder whether there is something intrinsic for them in that if their wedding gets published or it goes viral or it's on social media and it gets all the likes, is that a bit of an emotional ROI? 153 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.342 Oh my God, that's such a funny way to put it, emotional ROI. 154 00:15:31.842 --> 00:15:33.323 Return on your emotional investment. 155 00:15:33.384 --> 00:15:34.264 It's so true. 156 00:15:34.445 --> 00:15:39.950 It's definitely created this very trend-driven, very kind of like... 157 00:15:41.356 --> 00:15:52.045 cyclical industry that kind of sucks a lot of the life and heart and soul out of what it is, the ritual of it all. 158 00:15:52.445 --> 00:16:04.856 It's so interesting you bring up the trends or how it lives on social media because there's this Australian influencer, Jackie Alexander, I don't know if you know who I'm talking about, that she posted this video of her and her husband getting married and they had 159 00:16:06.857 --> 00:16:08.138 thing with all these candles. 160 00:16:08.218 --> 00:16:12.682 And the video of them was blowing the candles from either side of the cake and then kissing in the middle. 161 00:16:13.283 --> 00:16:14.524 And it was so beautiful. 162 00:16:14.544 --> 00:16:15.785 Like it looked amazing. 163 00:16:15.865 --> 00:16:19.308 It was, it was, it was just such a beautiful setup. 164 00:16:19.928 --> 00:16:25.733 Um, but I know for a fact that if I married my now boyfriend, there is no way in hell. 165 00:16:26.174 --> 00:16:28.838 that he would take part in anything like that. 166 00:16:28.858 --> 00:16:33.064 You know, like, obviously, it's her job to be creating content. 167 00:16:33.084 --> 00:16:34.245 So this is totally different. 168 00:16:34.606 --> 00:16:40.835 I guess the question I wanted to ask was there is this sort of trend-based blow-up in terms of how people are then spending money. 169 00:16:41.656 --> 00:16:58.573 But also what I hear spoken about so much is this wedding tax that's added on top as soon as you say this is a wedding or this is a – because you look at a birthday cake and how much that costs and then you look at a wedding cake, which could arguably be the same amount of batter and icing, yet it costs five times the price. 170 00:16:59.274 --> 00:17:01.916 How does that work and have you seen that? 171 00:17:02.017 --> 00:17:04.679 And I guess my sort of follow-up to that would be – 172 00:17:05.580 --> 00:17:19.792 I feel conflicted by the idea that if there's these small businesses that are run by a couple of women who have a cake business and they do predominantly wedding cakes and it's affected into how they run their business, that they cost X amount or whatever. 173 00:17:20.073 --> 00:17:27.039 I feel conflicted by saying you shouldn't charge that because we always talk about charge what you're worth, charge what you – 174 00:17:27.877 --> 00:17:37.260 So I don't know, but then at the same time, if you're going to plan something and you have to add an extra 20% purely because it is a wedding or an engagement, is that fair? 175 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:39.840 I think it's a simplification, to be honest. 176 00:17:40.121 --> 00:17:52.364 The vendors that I have had the privilege of working with, talking to, meeting through the process of growing Vale, they have so much integrity in the work that they do, and a lot of them, you know, they really are passionate about it. 177 00:17:52.384 --> 00:17:55.385 It comes from their heart, what they do, whether they're doing work 178 00:17:55.805 --> 00:17:58.048 florals or they're making a cake. 179 00:17:58.188 --> 00:18:06.839 And so I think we've also got to acknowledge that a wedding versus a birthday, say, there's a lot more pressure around a wedding. 180 00:18:06.879 --> 00:18:07.340 There's not a 181 00:18:11.620 --> 00:18:18.764 you're kind of building this like dream scenario for what is ostensibly someone's kind of the biggest day of their life. 182 00:18:18.924 --> 00:18:23.887 And so I think there's, there's kind of like an added pressure on the vendor as well to always deliver. 183 00:18:24.347 --> 00:18:26.849 And it goes back to that thing of like priorities and values. 184 00:18:26.869 --> 00:18:37.355 Like before you start planning, sit down, figure out what you value, where you're going to prioritize and then try and find vendors who really align with you and with your vision. 185 00:18:37.415 --> 00:18:37.775 Because I, 186 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:44.384 I think the good ones are really just doing the absolute best work that they possibly can. 187 00:18:45.965 --> 00:18:56.215 And, you know, I haven't, I personally haven't heard of like a wedding cake maker who's like rolling in it, like laughing, kind of laughing all the way to the bank. 188 00:18:56.415 --> 00:18:57.516 It's so true. 189 00:18:57.856 --> 00:19:01.379 I think it's really easy to say, oh, they've slapped on all this money because it's a wedding. 190 00:19:01.399 --> 00:19:01.900 Yeah. 191 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:07.722 But I think you're asking them to put their absolute best foot forward for you, for your day. 192 00:19:08.322 --> 00:19:10.342 I have never thought about it in that way. 193 00:19:10.442 --> 00:19:12.243 And I think you're so right. 194 00:19:12.803 --> 00:19:22.046 It's in the same way you expect people to show up an extra 20% because it's a wedding cake or because it's a floral arrangement for the table of a wedding. 195 00:19:22.366 --> 00:19:25.407 There is an expectation for the standards to be X. 196 00:19:26.827 --> 00:19:29.708 So you pay extra for the standard to be that. 197 00:19:29.788 --> 00:19:31.649 And I think that's a really interesting point. 198 00:19:31.989 --> 00:19:36.350 Maggie, I would love to, if you feel comfortable, speak about your wedding. 199 00:19:37.051 --> 00:19:46.694 Because given you now work in an industry that is very much built on aspiration, on brand, on beautiful aesthetics. 200 00:19:47.683 --> 00:19:53.949 There is so much irony in the fact that your wedding actually, I mean, it was so beautiful. 201 00:19:53.969 --> 00:20:02.878 And the photos that I've seen and what you wore by no way detract from, it's not as though I think I look at or think about your wedding and think that it's miles away from Vale. 202 00:20:02.938 --> 00:20:09.144 It's more just that a lot of the weddings that you publish and the vendors and the people that you work with. 203 00:20:09.925 --> 00:20:14.449 are more in that quite large scale weddings. 204 00:20:14.569 --> 00:20:16.851 And yours was actually almost the opposite of that. 205 00:20:16.951 --> 00:20:20.274 You had a really small intimate ceremony. 206 00:20:20.294 --> 00:20:27.000 And I would love to speak about the decisions around why you got married in that way, how you feel about it in retrospect. 207 00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:35.684 Sometimes I look at the work I do every day with Vale and think, this is so funny because I was never really a big wedding gal. 208 00:20:35.844 --> 00:20:38.225 I guess I was almost more anti-bride. 209 00:20:38.525 --> 00:20:40.426 I always wanted to get married. 210 00:20:40.706 --> 00:20:43.468 I'd never really thought about the way in which I was going to do that. 211 00:20:44.348 --> 00:20:46.269 I'd already been with my husband, Joel, for a number of years. 212 00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:50.571 We were pregnant with our first child. 213 00:20:50.731 --> 00:20:52.552 You know, I just, I wasn't that bothered. 214 00:20:53.352 --> 00:20:57.334 And it was funny because my, it was something my mother-in-law actually said to me, maybe you guys should get married. 215 00:20:57.354 --> 00:21:00.535 And I was like, that is no, this is no way. 216 00:21:01.476 --> 00:21:03.977 And then I sat with it and it was between lockdowns. 217 00:21:03.997 --> 00:21:04.757 It's a funny time. 218 00:21:05.597 --> 00:21:06.698 As I said, I was pregnant and. 219 00:21:07.278 --> 00:21:09.621 And we were just like, look, should we just pull something together? 220 00:21:09.741 --> 00:21:11.884 We don't know what's really going on in the world. 221 00:21:11.924 --> 00:21:12.765 It's all a bit funny. 222 00:21:13.085 --> 00:21:14.347 We've got this baby on the way. 223 00:21:14.587 --> 00:21:16.509 It would actually be nice to celebrate something. 224 00:21:16.829 --> 00:21:17.330 But it's funny. 225 00:21:17.350 --> 00:21:21.175 It was a pretty, all in all, a pretty low-key affair. 226 00:21:21.435 --> 00:21:23.337 And I look back on it with real fondness. 227 00:21:23.437 --> 00:21:24.959 It was a very, very special affair. 228 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:31.023 afternoon and probably not what I would have done had I not been pregnant or I had I had all the time in the world to plan. 229 00:21:31.383 --> 00:21:39.847 Was there any part of you or maybe in hindsight that now thinks maybe I would have wanted a bigger version or a different version or 230 00:21:41.048 --> 00:21:45.870 And I know it's so hard because the point of a wedding is it's a moment in time that feels so sacred. 231 00:21:45.910 --> 00:21:49.331 So it would be really weird to think, okay, I'm going to like rework that whole thing. 232 00:21:49.531 --> 00:21:55.714 It was there or is there any part of you that thinks it would be really fun to do something like big and elaborate. 233 00:21:55.874 --> 00:22:02.156 Particularly now having looked through so many weddings over the course of like since we've been building Vale. 234 00:22:03.017 --> 00:22:04.817 I'm like, oh, that would have been so amazing. 235 00:22:05.337 --> 00:22:08.959 And Joel and I have talked about doing a vow renewal process. 236 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:11.420 I don't think I'd go back and do the big wedding. 237 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:12.620 I think we've done that. 238 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.222 I think if anything, we'd just have a party. 239 00:22:15.562 --> 00:22:18.143 And there are a lot of people now who are doing that split. 240 00:22:18.343 --> 00:22:23.465 I'm noticing people choosing to have an intimate ceremony, then a big party separate. 241 00:22:23.605 --> 00:22:30.988 The idea of saying vows walking down the aisle in front of 100 people makes me want to shit my pants. 242 00:22:31.208 --> 00:22:36.951 I can't tell you how nervous that makes me, which is so funny because every time I say something like that to someone, they're like, 243 00:22:37.251 --> 00:22:39.412 You talk on a podcast to thousands of people. 244 00:22:39.432 --> 00:22:40.773 Like, that's crazy. 245 00:22:40.793 --> 00:22:44.915 I just, it honestly terrifies me. 246 00:22:45.455 --> 00:22:49.137 And I love the idea of pulling out the ceremony and having it as a separate thing. 247 00:22:49.157 --> 00:22:59.863 The other thing I was thinking about is, you know, all these people that are now doing remote weddings, or sorry, destination weddings, you have to actually get married before you then go to the wedding. 248 00:22:59.883 --> 00:23:02.945 So the whole ceremony is kind of just like a play. 249 00:23:03.745 --> 00:23:06.847 I was like, oh, my God, that you don't even have to do it. 250 00:23:06.867 --> 00:23:13.350 You know, it's kind of like you're redoing it because it's beautiful to show your friends and family, but it's not actually legally binding. 251 00:23:13.430 --> 00:23:14.651 I was like, this is so funny. 252 00:23:14.971 --> 00:23:21.374 So one of the things that we asked our community and also if you're listening to this and you haven't filled this in, you still can. 253 00:23:21.394 --> 00:23:22.975 So we'll link it in the podcast show notes. 254 00:23:23.695 --> 00:23:33.359 We're also going to release all of this data because I think so many people are asking us, like, can we see, especially those who haven't got married yet and are trying to plan and figure out what they do and don't spend money on. 255 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.481 But one of the things that we asked is what do you regret spending money on? 256 00:23:37.521 --> 00:23:45.545 And I'm going to read out the top five because I must say I was a little bit shocked and I'm really keen to hear what you think about this, Margie. 257 00:23:45.605 --> 00:23:47.766 So the first one and the most popular. 258 00:23:48.586 --> 00:23:51.230 was extra guests and therefore extra catering. 259 00:23:51.450 --> 00:23:59.141 So that, which I think is because a lot of people struggle to cut down, then you're almost resentful that you have to pay for Aunt Sally's meal. 260 00:24:00.083 --> 00:24:00.724 Quite interesting. 261 00:24:00.744 --> 00:24:02.025 So that was number one. 262 00:24:02.206 --> 00:24:03.448 Number two was florals. 263 00:24:05.002 --> 00:24:09.023 Number three was photographer and videographer because they did a shit job. 264 00:24:09.644 --> 00:24:21.088 Comparatively to actually when we get further down to what people really love spending money on, I think if they had a good photographer and videographer from memory, that was actually at the top of what they loved spending money on. 265 00:24:21.508 --> 00:24:24.509 So I think it's the people that were disappointed with what came out of it. 266 00:24:25.209 --> 00:24:27.270 That was something they really regretted. 267 00:24:27.850 --> 00:24:31.852 Number four, people said the cake because no one really ate it. 268 00:24:32.829 --> 00:24:37.210 And then the fifth was bridesmaids, which were expensive. 269 00:24:37.270 --> 00:24:38.890 You know, we need a full glam squad. 270 00:24:39.150 --> 00:24:40.271 So I get that. 271 00:24:40.351 --> 00:24:42.331 Do any of those answers surprise you? 272 00:24:42.711 --> 00:24:53.413 No, the first one particularly, like, it's kind of just such a fundamental, like, first building block of any wedding, I think, is, like, get your list down. 273 00:24:53.573 --> 00:24:54.834 Like, write your list. 274 00:24:55.114 --> 00:24:58.794 It has to be ironclad, and it has to go along with the venue that you found. 275 00:24:58.814 --> 00:25:01.115 So, like, once you've got your kind of, like, 276 00:25:02.055 --> 00:25:03.976 venue that you can afford. 277 00:25:04.036 --> 00:25:04.837 This is the venue. 278 00:25:04.857 --> 00:25:05.817 This is in our budget. 279 00:25:05.917 --> 00:25:07.298 How many people does it hold? 280 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:07.959 Right. 281 00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:09.720 That has to dictate our list. 282 00:25:09.900 --> 00:25:12.962 Do you think do it that way around rather than list than venue? 283 00:25:13.202 --> 00:25:14.763 It depends on what's more important to you. 284 00:25:15.083 --> 00:25:25.469 That's why I say I think for couples to sit down and go through what their priorities are and make sure their priorities are aligned is so important because I don't know how... 285 00:25:25.509 --> 00:25:26.010 If someone... 286 00:25:27.302 --> 00:25:29.804 is the type of person who doesn't want to leave anyone out. 287 00:25:30.144 --> 00:25:32.886 Like they're probably going to end up with like 200 people at their wedding. 288 00:25:32.946 --> 00:25:34.407 That is me, by the way. 289 00:25:34.507 --> 00:25:39.890 Like if I had a big wedding, if I had a big wedding, it would blow so far out of proportion. 290 00:25:39.910 --> 00:25:42.352 We'd just have to be in like a field in the middle of nowhere. 291 00:25:42.412 --> 00:25:50.894 I think if there's someone who, you know, you can be a little bit more discerning, then yeah, you can have the venue that only fits like 60 to 80 people. 292 00:25:51.094 --> 00:25:53.214 I think you just got to figure out what your priorities are. 293 00:25:53.495 --> 00:25:57.155 But I do see how people blow out on that because it's such an emotional decision. 294 00:25:57.215 --> 00:25:59.976 Like it's hard to be cutthroat and be like, Aunt Sally can't come. 295 00:25:59.996 --> 00:26:00.376 Sorry. 296 00:26:00.656 --> 00:26:02.196 You know, and obviously not all couples. 297 00:26:02.517 --> 00:26:04.437 There are a lot of couples who are kind of opposites. 298 00:26:05.137 --> 00:26:12.642 You've just got to figure out what really matters to you, how you want to feel on the day, what matters to you the most, and what's important to your respective families. 299 00:26:12.882 --> 00:26:23.409 Some people come from cultures where it is culturally important to have not only your family and extended family, but kind of like your extended family. 300 00:26:23.970 --> 00:26:30.174 So if you've got like a couple where you've got one person who's that and the other person who only wants kind of four people from their family. 301 00:26:31.374 --> 00:26:32.354 How do you align those things? 302 00:26:32.474 --> 00:26:32.814 I don't know. 303 00:26:32.854 --> 00:26:36.975 I think you just have to have those discussions really openly and honestly and vulnerably. 304 00:26:39.016 --> 00:26:51.078 And some of the other things on there, I think, come back to that question of what we discussed before, which is about finding vendors who align with your vision and with your budget and with what you want from the day. 305 00:26:51.118 --> 00:26:51.458 Yeah. 306 00:26:51.598 --> 00:26:55.479 And I guess there's obviously a difference in recruiting spending five grand on a cake. 307 00:26:55.539 --> 00:26:55.999 I actually don't. 308 00:26:56.059 --> 00:26:57.199 I think that's how much cakes are. 309 00:26:57.919 --> 00:27:04.345 Whereas if you've spent an extra 20 grand on catering for guests that you don't want, there's like a real difference. 310 00:27:04.365 --> 00:27:08.749 Like regretting something a little bit smaller, I'm sure, is not such a huge regret. 311 00:27:09.590 --> 00:27:14.775 But I imagine like a lot of the fact that bridesmaids made it on here, I thought was really interesting because – 312 00:27:15.355 --> 00:27:19.556 We speak a lot about like who should be paying for the bridesmaid dress, who should be paying. 313 00:27:19.937 --> 00:27:23.558 And it's, it's so it's, yeah, it's really an interesting one. 314 00:27:23.598 --> 00:27:29.099 There's so much that you can pull out from a wedding because obviously there's the hens do if you have one. 315 00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:38.963 There's, um, yeah, I think it's hard when there's so many costs involved for women to look a certain way at a wedding. 316 00:27:38.983 --> 00:27:39.043 Um. 317 00:27:40.063 --> 00:27:48.637 But I sort of feel like, and this might be controversial, but I feel like if it's your day and you want people to look a certain way, that's kind of on you to pay for that. 318 00:27:48.878 --> 00:27:50.260 That's my personal opinion. 319 00:27:50.520 --> 00:27:53.946 I don't know if that's like, you know, my, but then in saying that, 320 00:27:54.925 --> 00:28:01.068 I was going to say a bit then in saying that one of my best friends got married in Portugal and she offered to pay for our dresses. 321 00:28:01.108 --> 00:28:04.009 And I actually just was like, I'm just going to buy something I can wear again and again. 322 00:28:04.229 --> 00:28:05.530 And you don't then have to pay for it. 323 00:28:05.550 --> 00:28:07.610 Because I knew how much they were spending on the actual wedding. 324 00:28:08.251 --> 00:28:09.171 And that was my own choice. 325 00:28:09.191 --> 00:28:10.752 And I felt fine with that. 326 00:28:11.132 --> 00:28:13.193 And I think all the other bridesmaids did the same thing. 327 00:28:13.693 --> 00:28:19.836 But I think ultimately offering is like a nice gesture for people who either can't afford it, but want to be involved in your day. 328 00:28:19.896 --> 00:28:22.537 But I don't know if you have any thoughts on the bridesmaids piece. 329 00:28:23.588 --> 00:28:34.051 I think if, yeah, I think if you have expectations about how, you know, your bridesmaids are going to look or you're, you're basically saying this is the dress you must wear. 330 00:28:34.071 --> 00:28:39.093 I do think you have to pay for it as the, as the couple. 331 00:28:39.233 --> 00:28:39.673 I do. 332 00:28:39.693 --> 00:28:47.395 I do because I think, you know, guests do make a big financial commitment to attend a wedding and, um. 333 00:28:49.123 --> 00:28:51.885 And I also think there are so many different ways you can slice it with bridesmaids. 334 00:28:51.905 --> 00:29:00.613 You know, as you said, it's like, look, just go out and find a dress that you really love or something that you love kind of in this color palette that you will wear again. 335 00:29:00.713 --> 00:29:02.875 I think that's a fair enough thing to ask of people. 336 00:29:02.915 --> 00:29:06.218 And I think if they're your best friends, they probably will be happy to do that. 337 00:29:06.698 --> 00:29:11.503 But I think if you're like, here is the exact dress you must wear, it's $800 you need to buy. 338 00:29:11.523 --> 00:29:11.903 It's fuchsia. 339 00:29:11.923 --> 00:29:12.023 Yeah. 340 00:29:14.405 --> 00:29:16.966 And it's a turtleneck and you will be wearing it. 341 00:29:16.986 --> 00:29:17.146 Yeah. 342 00:29:17.506 --> 00:29:20.567 I think that's a really tall order in this day and age. 343 00:29:20.607 --> 00:29:21.207 I think it is. 344 00:29:21.267 --> 00:29:22.587 I think it's tough. 345 00:29:23.628 --> 00:29:32.530 And again, it goes back to like if that's the kind of wedding you want where everything is perfect and it looks all perfect and the production value is high, do you have the budget for that? 346 00:29:33.310 --> 00:29:34.971 Those little details included. 347 00:29:35.051 --> 00:29:39.912 And if you don't have the budget, then temper your expectations to what your budget is. 348 00:29:40.232 --> 00:29:43.213 I'm going to read some of the answers that came through. 349 00:29:44.130 --> 00:29:45.991 because I think they're quite funny. 350 00:29:47.072 --> 00:29:54.876 So someone said, my wedding dress, I paid almost $2,000 for a Victoria Beckham dress for my elopement. 351 00:29:55.356 --> 00:29:58.918 It was beautiful, but I look back and think, why did I do that? 352 00:29:59.258 --> 00:30:02.340 Now I have it sitting in my wardrobe when that money could be doing something else. 353 00:30:03.961 --> 00:30:07.323 And honestly, when I saw $2,000, I thought, isn't that quite normal? 354 00:30:07.423 --> 00:30:09.844 I feel like people spend a lot of money on dresses. 355 00:30:09.864 --> 00:30:12.546 I don't know if that's me sounding really bratty. 356 00:30:12.726 --> 00:30:18.029 But when she said $2,000, I was like, I feel like some people spend upwards of $10,000 on their dress. 357 00:30:18.620 --> 00:30:19.321 Oh, yeah, yeah. 358 00:30:19.361 --> 00:30:26.188 I mean, it sounds like she probably bought an off-the-rack Victoria Beckham dress for an allotment because she does do beautiful white or cream dresses. 359 00:30:26.669 --> 00:30:27.389 It's so much. 360 00:30:28.070 --> 00:30:29.031 And then it sits there. 361 00:30:29.191 --> 00:30:35.658 Well, if you don't think you're going to wear a white dress again, even if it's not like a custom wedding dress... 362 00:30:36.659 --> 00:30:38.320 Yeah, I understand. 363 00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:39.961 I do understand that sentiment. 364 00:30:40.482 --> 00:30:45.044 Equally, there are some people for whom that's kind of the only thing they want to spend their money on. 365 00:30:45.125 --> 00:30:49.247 Someone actually on that vein said, I regret not spending enough on hair and makeup. 366 00:30:49.607 --> 00:30:55.611 I think there's probably nothing worse than planning the wedding and then having really shit makeup in here. 367 00:30:55.751 --> 00:30:56.632 You're like, oh, come on. 368 00:30:56.952 --> 00:31:04.137 Because I actually think how you feel is so – well, for me, it's so impacted with how I think I look. 369 00:31:04.357 --> 00:31:04.457 Yeah. 370 00:31:05.037 --> 00:31:16.203 Which sounds terrible, but I really notice that if I have a beautiful outfit that I feel really confident in or I've spent time doing my hair and makeup, I feel so good and I definitely show up in a different energy. 371 00:31:16.243 --> 00:31:24.588 Like today when I came to this podcast even, I look at your beautiful blonde bob and I think, why don't I have a Dyson and why have I not made an effort? 372 00:31:24.608 --> 00:31:26.009 And every time this happens to me. 373 00:31:26.349 --> 00:31:29.451 So I guess I understand the idea of wanting to feel really good. 374 00:31:30.211 --> 00:31:40.309 Some of the other things that came through was, I'm not sure I regretted anything, but I spent five figures on a floral arrangement for the ceremony and my dress ended up covering 90% of it in the photos. 375 00:31:40.329 --> 00:31:40.629 Yeah. 376 00:31:42.573 --> 00:31:46.296 I regret spending money on a bus to get people home at the end of the night. 377 00:31:46.356 --> 00:31:47.417 It was $600. 378 00:31:47.457 --> 00:31:48.297 It was bad service. 379 00:31:48.377 --> 00:31:50.359 And 10 people used the 50-seater. 380 00:31:50.879 --> 00:31:53.421 Almost 35 said that they would, but then didn't. 381 00:31:53.441 --> 00:31:54.842 But that's so classic. 382 00:31:54.882 --> 00:31:57.084 At the end of the night, you get your invite. 383 00:31:57.104 --> 00:31:58.865 You click, yes, I'll be using the bus. 384 00:31:58.925 --> 00:32:02.488 And then something happens, and you get a taxi or someone gives you a ride home. 385 00:32:03.168 --> 00:32:03.988 I so get that. 386 00:32:04.229 --> 00:32:05.969 Getting a marquee, I really regret it. 387 00:32:05.989 --> 00:32:08.470 It was 5,000 and it was so much work. 388 00:32:08.490 --> 00:32:11.451 It would have been so much easier to just go to a venue that did everything for you. 389 00:32:11.531 --> 00:32:17.833 That I thought was quite interesting because I think if you choose a venue that you love and it's beautiful but it's not set up for weddings, you forget. 390 00:32:17.873 --> 00:32:21.975 You have to hire chairs and glasses and that just is a major. 391 00:32:22.355 --> 00:32:22.715 Yeah. 392 00:32:22.815 --> 00:32:24.796 And so this is where I think... 393 00:32:26.506 --> 00:32:28.868 Wedding planners are so valuable. 394 00:32:29.088 --> 00:32:36.794 If you can factor one into your budget, I think ultimately they would save you money. 395 00:32:37.255 --> 00:32:45.181 Because if you're doing the big wedding and you've never planned a wedding before, you've never planned a big event for like 100, 150 people before, even 80 people, you're... 396 00:32:46.862 --> 00:32:48.383 You just don't know what you don't know. 397 00:32:48.403 --> 00:32:58.412 And so I'm not surprised that wedding planners are kind of busier and busier and busier because I think couples are really seeing the value proposition and using them because they can go, okay, cool. 398 00:32:59.113 --> 00:32:59.834 What's your budget? 399 00:33:00.354 --> 00:33:01.755 This is what's realistic for you. 400 00:33:02.176 --> 00:33:07.861 And I also think a lot of those wedding planners have relationships with vendors so they can get better deals anyway. 401 00:33:07.901 --> 00:33:09.142 It's almost like going wholesale. 402 00:33:09.162 --> 00:33:09.282 Yeah. 403 00:33:09.622 --> 00:33:10.202 Big time. 404 00:33:10.522 --> 00:33:19.726 I'm sure it's expensive to have one, but I also just feel like the mental load of someone that's organized and can do that probably would make me feel more inclined to even have a wedding in the first place. 405 00:33:19.906 --> 00:33:27.590 Someone said a DJ they regretted, which is there wasn't that many people that said they regretted the money they spent on the entertainment, but they spent $3,000 plus a day. 406 00:33:28.550 --> 00:33:31.112 A thousand for the saxophonist, but he was pretty bad. 407 00:33:31.973 --> 00:33:33.954 And not playing requested songs. 408 00:33:34.475 --> 00:33:35.896 I should have gone for a band instead. 409 00:33:36.356 --> 00:33:41.941 And I honestly just cannot half-hold enough about how important it is to have bangers and sing-alongs at a wedding. 410 00:33:42.381 --> 00:33:44.042 We are not interested in being cool. 411 00:33:44.062 --> 00:33:47.125 If there is a DJ trying to be cool at a wedding, 412 00:33:47.905 --> 00:34:10.290 leave your ego at the door mate like this is this is sing-along central oh my gosh like it's it's it's you have to have such a deep understanding of the like generational cross-section that is that is at a wedding there's no point in like alienating the the oldies how sad if you have like granny susan at the back not dancing because she doesn't recognize a song you know yeah i know 413 00:34:10.890 --> 00:34:14.552 One of the things that we also asked was what was worth every penny. 414 00:34:14.712 --> 00:34:16.513 So we've ordered this in terms of the top five. 415 00:34:16.613 --> 00:34:20.695 So what were the most popular answers for things that people loved spending money on? 416 00:34:21.435 --> 00:34:37.042 So number one, the people who loved their videographer and photographer said it was the best thing they spend money on by a country mile, which is so interesting because when you learn, especially as someone who used to do this for a job, when people learn how much it is, they're shocked. 417 00:34:37.562 --> 00:34:38.323 Shocked and appalled. 418 00:34:38.664 --> 00:34:41.788 It is, firstly, so much work to shoot a wedding. 419 00:34:42.048 --> 00:34:45.693 Secondly, the turnaround of, like, getting someone something, ideally straight away. 420 00:34:45.713 --> 00:34:48.616 They want some of those photos or videos. 421 00:34:48.636 --> 00:34:51.200 You have to, like, turn stuff around almost at, like, midnight the night of. 422 00:34:51.820 --> 00:34:52.581 But also... 423 00:34:53.182 --> 00:34:58.144 The pressure of getting great footage or photos is so enormous. 424 00:34:58.184 --> 00:35:03.407 And it kind of comes back to how you spoke about the vendors and the idea that actually if you're paying, you're paying for quality. 425 00:35:03.527 --> 00:35:04.167 So that was number one. 426 00:35:04.427 --> 00:35:10.610 Number two, people really loved and didn't regret spending money on their venue, which kind of matches what you were saying. 427 00:35:10.890 --> 00:35:15.432 Number three, people really valued and didn't regret spending money on catering, which I've 428 00:35:15.532 --> 00:35:16.552 thought was fascinating. 429 00:35:16.572 --> 00:35:18.233 I thought that that would not make its way in there. 430 00:35:18.273 --> 00:35:33.297 So obviously it's people making decisions on what actually they want in terms of do they really value fine dining and so they want to pay extra for that or do they want something casual where people aren't sitting down therefore they were happy with their decision to do it in whatever way. 431 00:35:34.893 --> 00:35:39.575 I think this is the biggest cost that probably swings people right in terms of it being really expensive or not. 432 00:35:39.616 --> 00:35:44.618 Because the sit down, the idea of think how expensive it is to go out for dinner and pay for people. 433 00:35:44.738 --> 00:35:47.199 I mean, last night I went out for a hundred pound meal. 434 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:52.562 And then the last two that people love spending money on was band, like the band, music. 435 00:35:53.183 --> 00:35:55.044 I was surprised that wasn't higher, to be honest. 436 00:35:56.084 --> 00:35:56.905 And then rings. 437 00:35:57.905 --> 00:36:02.047 There were so many really good comments that came through. 438 00:36:02.207 --> 00:36:10.572 Definitely the common thread through a lot of these comments was people really loved spending money on the things that created lasting memories. 439 00:36:11.032 --> 00:36:21.358 So whether that's the ring that's lasted for a long time, whether it's the videographer or the sort of, I guess, content that's come from it, which is quite interesting when we go back to the idea of... 440 00:36:22.478 --> 00:36:28.504 how people are now thinking about them in terms of how they show up, whether it's in print or they're published or it's just something that they keep for themselves. 441 00:36:28.965 --> 00:36:30.726 That is what people are really valuing. 442 00:36:31.287 --> 00:36:44.660 So it's quite interesting to then think, okay, well, if it's that stuff that's like standing the test of time or that will live on beyond the day, a lot of that is then how it looks in photos, which is kind of almost counterintuitive. 443 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.324 Because I just think really it's the only way to look back and relive the day. 444 00:36:49.344 --> 00:37:03.057 I mean, I was speaking to a bride the other day who, you know, was talking about how they invested a lot in that component of their wedding and how it just really has paid dividends for them in terms of like the memories they've got from that and they've now gone. 445 00:37:03.077 --> 00:37:03.898 And... 446 00:37:05.479 --> 00:37:11.081 and created like a beautiful album with milk books that kind of documented their day. 447 00:37:11.101 --> 00:37:13.361 And, you know, they'll have that forever and their kids can read that. 448 00:37:13.401 --> 00:37:20.604 And I think those are the things that you're really going to take from this and look back fondly. 449 00:37:20.704 --> 00:37:27.646 So in terms of a value proposition, that does really make sense to me that things like videography and photography is money well spent. 450 00:37:27.706 --> 00:37:34.448 I've had a few conversations over the last few months with this woman, Chelsea Arne Jackson, who's a bridal strategist who's based in the States. 451 00:37:35.308 --> 00:37:39.872 And she's just launched her own bridal wedding publication called Alter. 452 00:37:40.632 --> 00:37:46.417 But she also has put out this piece of research recently called the Ceremony Index. 453 00:37:46.497 --> 00:37:50.260 And it's deep, deep research into the wedding industry. 454 00:37:51.782 --> 00:37:58.307 Particularly interesting, I think, for vendors who want to see and understand where couples are spending their money on. 455 00:37:58.667 --> 00:37:59.928 where they're putting value. 456 00:38:00.328 --> 00:38:04.452 She kind of says the future of bridal will not be decided by what is most visible. 457 00:38:04.552 --> 00:38:06.333 It will be decided by what rings true. 458 00:38:06.554 --> 00:38:09.416 And in this moment, truth is the rarest luxury of all. 459 00:38:10.077 --> 00:38:18.864 And I think what she really talks about throughout this piece of research, and she uses a lot of numbers and data to back it up, is that 460 00:38:19.464 --> 00:38:25.450 Couples are valuing authenticity, storytelling, connection, truth, honesty. 461 00:38:25.570 --> 00:38:30.374 I think they're really moving away from the fatigue of content and aesthetic. 462 00:38:31.375 --> 00:38:35.979 She calls it anti-spectacle aesthetics, which I think is really fascinating because... 463 00:38:37.300 --> 00:38:40.001 Again, it's that paradox with a wedding, right? 464 00:38:40.081 --> 00:38:42.422 It's like it is a spectacle in many regards. 465 00:38:42.502 --> 00:38:42.782 It is. 466 00:38:42.882 --> 00:38:47.923 It just is by its very nature, by the number of people you have there, by the kind of big declarations of love. 467 00:38:48.503 --> 00:38:53.025 But it is also the most intimate of things, really. 468 00:38:53.945 --> 00:38:56.806 And so how do you balance those two things in a way that feel authentic? 469 00:38:56.946 --> 00:38:59.547 And what your data has shown is... 470 00:39:00.687 --> 00:39:05.913 Is that that is true, is that couples are really valuing, they're going, right, what is meaningful to me? 471 00:39:05.953 --> 00:39:07.254 Well, it's the memories. 472 00:39:08.015 --> 00:39:16.304 Maggie, one of the things I wanted to speak about, which is quite controversial, and I was desperate to put it in our research piece, but I really want to talk to you about it, is... 473 00:39:17.305 --> 00:39:28.514 The idea that a lot of people don't talk about how much family contributions there are when it comes to the cost of the wedding, the strings attached to that, who has control over what it looks like, who attends, all of that. 474 00:39:29.194 --> 00:39:39.822 I've attended so many weddings where they're so beautiful and there is absolutely no way in hell that that couple paid for it because who could? 475 00:39:40.062 --> 00:39:43.185 So many of us don't have that kind of money and that's totally fine. 476 00:39:43.205 --> 00:39:43.385 But when 477 00:39:43.665 --> 00:39:52.668 when it then came to saying thank you for the wedding, I honestly felt like I needed to ask for their parents' number to send a message to say thank you for the wedding because they'd obviously funded so much of it. 478 00:39:52.728 --> 00:39:54.789 And I've had that time and time again. 479 00:39:54.829 --> 00:40:02.792 And obviously, you know, there's some friends that you might be able to say, hey, you know, did your parents contribute or how did that work? 480 00:40:02.872 --> 00:40:06.954 And some people are open to talking about it and some are not, and that's totally fine. 481 00:40:06.994 --> 00:40:09.375 But I really wanted to ask our community, you know, 482 00:40:10.295 --> 00:40:12.877 Did you ask for contributions? 483 00:40:13.017 --> 00:40:13.738 Did they offer? 484 00:40:13.778 --> 00:40:14.739 How did that work? 485 00:40:15.299 --> 00:40:18.182 And I was quite fascinated by what came back. 486 00:40:18.282 --> 00:40:22.445 Almost 50% said savings, which I thought was like really impressive. 487 00:40:23.246 --> 00:40:25.608 And then 50% said family contributions. 488 00:40:26.188 --> 00:40:34.055 And so that piece is really interesting to me where it's like it's almost an even split between people who paid for it themselves by saving and then those who had family contributions. 489 00:40:34.416 --> 00:40:39.380 But there was also quite a split between people who saved a certain amount and then family topped up the rest. 490 00:40:39.801 --> 00:40:40.801 But then there were... 491 00:40:41.542 --> 00:40:51.697 a decent amount, like 10%, 10%, 10% across credit card, loan, and debt, which for a financially savvy audience, that's quite interesting to me and not judgmental. 492 00:40:51.737 --> 00:40:57.845 I mean, like obviously if you want a certain day and it's really important to you to spend money and you don't have access to family or – 493 00:40:58.326 --> 00:41:00.268 but you really want to spend money on stuff. 494 00:41:00.368 --> 00:41:00.948 I get it. 495 00:41:01.169 --> 00:41:06.793 Most people said that they had family contributions with no strings attached, which I thought was quite cool. 496 00:41:07.254 --> 00:41:11.658 I'm sure there's definitely going to be some horror stories of people who are like, oh no, it was a bit of a disaster. 497 00:41:11.698 --> 00:41:16.182 But one person said, yes, my stepfather insisted his whole family could come. 498 00:41:16.622 --> 00:41:18.644 I'd never spent time with a lot of them. 499 00:41:19.605 --> 00:41:22.727 And then he only paid for mine and my bridesmaids flowers. 500 00:41:23.628 --> 00:41:24.469 This is so funny. 501 00:41:24.489 --> 00:41:29.092 Someone said, my dad attempted to buy his way to get more of his family invited. 502 00:41:29.112 --> 00:41:30.814 It was a no deal from us. 503 00:41:30.874 --> 00:41:32.415 Sorry, this is not a ticketed event. 504 00:41:32.895 --> 00:41:36.938 We only accepted contributions from my mom, who had no strings attached. 505 00:41:37.779 --> 00:41:42.543 And best decision was that we had the best day with the people who actually we 100% wanted to have there. 506 00:41:42.963 --> 00:41:49.928 I think that's quite good too, is like being discerning about how and what you take on and also being really clear about, are there strings attached to this? 507 00:41:50.488 --> 00:41:52.269 Is there stuff that you expect? 508 00:41:52.370 --> 00:41:54.011 Do you want to see what we're spending? 509 00:41:54.191 --> 00:41:58.574 And if the answer to any of those things doesn't sit well with you, then it's like, well, we're not taking that money. 510 00:41:58.774 --> 00:42:08.801 One of the things quickly that I think we should cover before we move on is just the idea of talking openly with your partner about the trade-offs of spending money on the wedding versus other things. 511 00:42:10.427 --> 00:42:19.030 Because the reality is everyone feels like they never have enough money to do all the things they want to do, whether it's for the wedding or it's for your life. 512 00:42:19.731 --> 00:42:27.894 I know for me, the biggest learning has been I do not have enough money for all the stuff I need, want, etc. 513 00:42:27.934 --> 00:42:30.775 It's just like a reality has been learning to prioritize. 514 00:42:32.845 --> 00:42:48.321 And I think when you are really aware of your numbers and how much you have, you can then be quite clear on, okay, well, if I only have 200 pounds this month to spend on things that I want to do, do I want to go out for a hundred pound dinner or would I rather do 10 coffees and pastries with friends? 515 00:42:48.341 --> 00:42:54.487 You know, you actually start to look at like, what can I spend versus, you know, like you decide whether it's clothes or whatever. 516 00:42:55.528 --> 00:43:04.590 And majority of people to this answer said, yes, we did talk about whether or not we wanted to spend the money on a wedding or other things, which again, doesn't surprise me given the audience that were answering this question. 517 00:43:04.630 --> 00:43:06.431 I was like, nice, everyone. 518 00:43:06.571 --> 00:43:07.211 Good work. 519 00:43:07.831 --> 00:43:11.552 Maybe I'll read a couple of things that were the funniest that came through from this or most interesting. 520 00:43:11.792 --> 00:43:19.614 So someone said, yes, which is why we were engaged for such a long time before getting married, because we had so many things that we had to nut out and get on the same page with, which makes a lot of sense. 521 00:43:19.634 --> 00:43:20.134 Because it is. 522 00:43:20.174 --> 00:43:21.674 It's so much you have to unpack. 523 00:43:21.854 --> 00:43:23.175 Someone else said, not really. 524 00:43:23.415 --> 00:43:24.975 I'm the CFO in our relationship. 525 00:43:26.456 --> 00:43:28.257 and I am also the organized one. 526 00:43:28.277 --> 00:43:34.101 So I was able to really think it through from an expense perspective, but we were also relatively on the same page. 527 00:43:34.521 --> 00:43:36.983 And I guess also it's like if someone opts out and they're like, do you know what? 528 00:43:37.043 --> 00:43:37.844 You take control. 529 00:43:37.904 --> 00:43:38.224 Fine. 530 00:43:38.264 --> 00:43:43.468 Like you, they just have to not be bitter or have any issues with what you spend or don't spend, I guess. 531 00:43:43.808 --> 00:43:51.733 And then someone said, I tried to, but honestly, he was so indifferent when it came to money conversations that that probably should have been a red flag to pay attention to. 532 00:43:51.814 --> 00:43:52.394 Lesson learned. 533 00:43:52.594 --> 00:43:53.855 Dun, dun, dun. 534 00:43:53.955 --> 00:43:56.117 Like, can we get you on the podcast? 535 00:43:56.818 --> 00:44:00.941 And I guess this also comes back to, like, are your expenses or your finances joint or not? 536 00:44:01.402 --> 00:44:04.805 Because is the money you're spending both of your decision to make? 537 00:44:05.105 --> 00:44:12.071 Before you sit down to plan a wedding and to make that commitment to someone for, you know, the rest of your life. 538 00:44:13.052 --> 00:44:14.893 these are the kinds of conversations. 539 00:44:14.973 --> 00:44:21.735 I mean, hopefully you are somewhat on the same page financially in terms of what your priorities and your values are. 540 00:44:22.215 --> 00:44:30.637 Like if you've got a shared value system, even if you're very different people, even if you make different amounts of money, your incomes are very different, your circumstances are very different. 541 00:44:30.657 --> 00:44:36.479 If your values align, then I think you can find common ground, hopefully. 542 00:44:36.499 --> 00:44:39.420 As that listener obviously said, it's a red flag if 543 00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:51.614 if something is important to you and, and your partner is completely indifferent to it, it's like that theory of the bird, the bird outside, you know, it's like, if you say to your partner, Oh, there's a bird outside and they don't seem to give a shit. 544 00:44:51.674 --> 00:44:57.582 Then it's usually a pretty good indication that like, if they don't really align with you on the small things, they're never going to align with you on the big things. 545 00:44:57.762 --> 00:45:03.863 If you don't know your actual answer to something or how you feel about it, you actually have to just explore it and think about it too. 546 00:45:04.463 --> 00:45:25.687 And I think that's why if you then look at people who get married really quickly or even, you know, our grandparents and they went on two dates and then all of a sudden they're married, of course they hadn't talked about money or how to fund the wedding and it was just completely out of their hands because it does take time to have those conversations and yeah, and to really understand what someone's value set is in life as well as in money. 547 00:45:26.527 --> 00:45:30.948 So actually giving it space and time to like simmer, I think, is a really nice thing. 548 00:45:30.968 --> 00:45:41.811 Weddings back in our parents' and grandparents' day, certainly our grandparents' day, were completely a, well, not completely, but a lot of the time were an economic proposition and the roles were very set. 549 00:45:42.151 --> 00:45:44.212 So you probably didn't really have to have those conversations. 550 00:45:44.232 --> 00:45:46.232 Like the woman probably wasn't going into the workplace. 551 00:45:46.532 --> 00:45:47.933 She probably didn't really earn a salary. 552 00:45:48.553 --> 00:45:50.033 The man had X amount of money. 553 00:45:50.153 --> 00:45:51.294 And weddings were kind of... 554 00:45:52.514 --> 00:45:57.516 I think probably more rote to a degree in terms of how they were structured and what was expected from the day. 555 00:45:57.776 --> 00:46:00.017 So I was like, okay, well, it's probably the parents just pay for this. 556 00:46:00.457 --> 00:46:06.400 Or, you know, traditionally the bride's parents would have paid or there would have been some kind of dowry or something. 557 00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:18.065 So now we've got all this freedom to do anything we want, which is a really beautiful thing, but it just comes with these trickier conversations about how do we – where are the boundaries? 558 00:46:18.105 --> 00:46:18.745 Where are the lines? 559 00:46:18.785 --> 00:46:19.865 What are we comfortable with? 560 00:46:20.305 --> 00:46:21.486 What are we comfortable with spending? 561 00:46:21.826 --> 00:46:31.794 We've spoken about so much in this episode, and I think it's been a really nice combination of learning and looking at some of the data that's come in, as well as hearing your perspective and your experience getting married. 562 00:46:32.275 --> 00:46:38.760 Is there anything else we haven't touched on or any final thoughts that might be nice to leave someone listening to this episode with? 563 00:46:39.160 --> 00:46:43.841 I think for me, it really always just comes back to remembering the why. 564 00:46:45.801 --> 00:46:50.562 I certainly use that as my North Star in everything that we do with Vale. 565 00:46:50.802 --> 00:47:00.804 And I think it's just a very simple, uncomplicated word that brings you back to kind of the heart of the whole thing. 566 00:47:00.964 --> 00:47:02.384 Why are you marrying this person? 567 00:47:02.444 --> 00:47:03.905 Why do you want to make this commitment? 568 00:47:03.985 --> 00:47:05.105 Why are you having a wedding? 569 00:47:06.046 --> 00:47:10.650 Those are the biggest questions to ask yourself and to kind of look internally and examine. 570 00:47:11.250 --> 00:47:13.112 And then honestly, the how will come. 571 00:47:13.272 --> 00:47:15.974 Like how you do it, what dress, what flowers, what da-da-da. 572 00:47:16.455 --> 00:47:17.155 It'll all come. 573 00:47:17.235 --> 00:47:17.756 It'll flow. 574 00:47:17.796 --> 00:47:20.859 It'll happen when you've kind of got the fundamentals down. 575 00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:27.624 I've looked at so many weddings over the last kind of year doing this publication, and it 576 00:47:31.268 --> 00:47:39.774 in your own backyard with your local restaurant catering, or whether you are in a castle, you know, on Lake Como. 577 00:47:41.375 --> 00:47:43.117 If a wedding feels like 578 00:47:44.693 --> 00:47:51.096 like the celebration of this like authentic connection and it feels like a true representation of, of that couple. 579 00:47:51.576 --> 00:47:52.597 It, you feel it. 580 00:47:52.737 --> 00:47:53.517 You really do. 581 00:47:53.577 --> 00:47:54.277 You truly do. 582 00:47:54.317 --> 00:48:04.402 I can tell whether a couple is kind of posing and, and doing it for the kind of editorial aesthetic and whether that's just, it's, it's kind of, um, um, 583 00:48:05.522 --> 00:48:25.975 authentic and there's something really compelling about the latter so I would just say to people to remember to remember what's important and then and then the rest will flow from there oh beautiful words of wisdom thank you so much Maggie I I honestly think we could talk about weddings and the cost of them and the design and just all the intricacies from a 584 00:48:26.495 --> 00:48:29.577 cultural and societal perspective, like for a very, very long time. 585 00:48:29.617 --> 00:48:36.721 There's, there's so much nuance and actually deep thinking involved when it comes to what are weddings now? 586 00:48:36.801 --> 00:48:42.904 What do they mean to us, you know, in the broader context, but also to, to couples individually. 587 00:48:43.565 --> 00:48:44.605 And it's fascinating. 588 00:48:44.625 --> 00:48:48.367 And I also think that the love and money side of things is so fascinating. 589 00:48:48.467 --> 00:48:52.730 So, um, thank you so much for sharing all of your thoughts and insights and, um, 590 00:48:53.290 --> 00:49:00.354 For anyone that would like to see, hear, be more involved in Vail, we'll obviously link it all in the podcast show notes. 591 00:49:00.654 --> 00:49:07.919 And if anyone wants to either submit their experience or see the results from the survey that we did, you can click the link in the podcast show notes. 592 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:10.420 We have made sure everything is anonymous. 593 00:49:10.621 --> 00:49:17.345 So if you're just curious to have a look around and see what people said, some of the interesting comments, some of that data, then you can find that. 594 00:49:17.485 --> 00:49:18.765 Anyone can have a little look. 595 00:49:18.825 --> 00:49:20.086 But thank you so much, Maggie. 596 00:49:20.266 --> 00:49:22.668 Have a great sleep and we'll talk to you soon. 597 00:49:23.248 --> 00:49:24.449 We have an exciting giveaway. 598 00:49:24.609 --> 00:49:28.691 If you've listened to this episode, you've made it all the way to the end, we've got a treat for you. 599 00:49:28.891 --> 00:49:35.635 So we've teamed up with Veil Magazine and with Milk Book to give away a little package that's worth $2,000. 600 00:49:36.316 --> 00:49:43.820 This is available only if you're in New Zealand and Australia, but you can win a Veil bundle as well as your very own Milk Books printed. 601 00:49:43.940 --> 00:49:45.501 It could be your wedding photos. 602 00:49:45.541 --> 00:49:47.282 It could be travel photos. 603 00:49:47.722 --> 00:49:56.607 If you would like to be in to win, all you have to do is share this episode to your Instagram story, tag at thecurveplatform, at Vale Magazine, and at Milk Books. 604 00:49:56.788 --> 00:50:00.970 We'll put those handles in the podcast show notes, but good luck to everyone and thanks so much for listening. 605 00:50:01.210 --> 00:50:03.151 Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve. 606 00:50:03.251 --> 00:50:10.716 These conversations are designed to teach you everything you need to know to be better with your money, from saving to investing to talking with your friends about your salaries, all of that stuff. 607 00:50:10.996 --> 00:50:16.059 And if you like what you heard, we would love if you could please hit subscribe wherever you're listening and leave a comment. 608 00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:17.460 Let us know what you thought about the episode. 609 00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:22.063 And it only takes one second and it would really make our week, our month, our year. 610 00:50:22.383 --> 00:50:22.563 Yeah. 611 00:50:22.703 --> 00:50:22.823 Yeah. 612 00:50:23.103 --> 00:50:23.944 So please do it. 613 00:50:24.184 --> 00:50:24.484 Okay. 614 00:50:24.564 --> 00:50:24.884 Love you. 615 00:50:25.084 --> 00:50:25.364 Bye. 616 00:50:28.411 --> 00:50:33.836 Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial advisors. 617 00:50:34.356 --> 00:50:43.364 Our platform exists for educational purposes only, and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. 618 00:50:43.784 --> 00:50:48.148 And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision. 619 00:50:48.468 --> 00:50:52.212 We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours. 620 00:50:52.492 --> 00:50:53.393 And thanks for being here. 621 00:50:53.893 --> 00:50:54.474 You got this. 622 00:50:54.514 --> 00:50:55.555 Yeah, we know you got this.