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We've been talking about freedom. Today we're going to talk about practicing love and freedom. Welcome to Living Influence. I'm your host, Scott Boyd, along with my friend and mentor, Bill Thrall. Hey, Scott. Welcome, Bill. We've been doing this series on freedom. I've been enjoying it. And so today the topic is practicing love. Now, you have an interesting definition for love. The process of meeting confidence.

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Needs. Needs. Yeah. So tell me how you came up with that. That's a very good question. Early on in our ministry as it was developing, we had all of these young adults that we were experiencing love. I know we were. It was amazing. Like when you were with your church. Right. Worship was good, you said, but you were experiencing a place where you were experiencing love. You knew that. Love and acceptance. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

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Well, what happened was early, very early on, I read often these words, and Jesus said, love one another just as I have loved you. And I pondered, how do you love me? And then I asked this question, how would I even know if he's loving me?

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How would I know if he's loving me? And it began a process of my understanding that what God does, what Jesus does, when he loves us, is he profoundly meets our needs. So that every one of us, and I say this carefully, every one of us was designed of God, the God who is love, to be loved. We were designed to be loved.

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But what is the design in us that allows us, listen carefully, to experience love? That's the key word, to experience love. What is the design in me? And what I discovered and continue to discover is that God's design in me was that he would create needs in me that are not weaknesses. They're needs. They're needs.

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For instance, every human being wakes up every day with a need for security. Every day. Can't get away from it. You can work all day long tomorrow on not needing to be secure, and you'll wake up the next day with it until you experience love. So what did God do? God knew that I have this tremendous need for security, so he made an unbelievable commitment to me.

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An unbelievable commitment. A commitment of love. What was his commitment? His commitment of love to me is this, Bill, I will never leave you or forsake you. Yeah. I'll never do that. What? Say it again, God. I'll never leave you or forsake you. Yeah. But he did something else. He said, I want you to love one another just so I love you.

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So commitment's really important to me, Scott. You and I had a session where we literally talked about our commitment to each other. Why? Because commitment is an expression of love that allows the need for my insecurity to be met. I become secure. Now, in marriage, two people get married,

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It's been watered down within the church and by the culture. But commitment is a really important part of the decision to marry. And as I said in one of our podcasts recently, when a person who is married violates the marriage with immorality, the biggest problem is not what they did. The biggest problem is they violated the commitment they made.

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Yeah. And now when that violation happens, that relationship is broken. And a lot of it says, well, let's just repair what he did or what she did. No. No, you definitely want to repair what you did, but you've got to earn the trust back to commitment. Bring it back. So what we did and what we're learning is that we are experiencing love

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from God. Like, for instance, God practices love. He loves his son. This is what he said. This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. What was he doing? He was affirming Jesus. He was affirming Jesus. Affirmation is an expression of love. And it meets the need of our significance. Somehow, because we recognize what sin has done to us,

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We're all just worthless. No, we're not. We are beautifully designed of God and we sin. But God is still interested in the significance of who we are in spite of our sin. Right. That's so that if we could practice this, Scott, in the church, we've got all these boundaries in the church where people have to be a certain way in order to be acceptable. Right.

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That's garbage. Yeah. That's just garbage. No, no. They are significantly designed of God and have now made a decision to receive Jesus. We should be affirming them every moment we can. Yeah.

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I do an exercise with audiences our ministry has for years called the Affirmation Exercise. And we just let people read off a list and affirm people. I'll tell you a funny story and then a good story. A funny story is you have this list of, I don't know, 50 words you get to circle in. Right, right.

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You've done it, so you know what it is. And we did a marriage conference, and we gave out the sheets to these couples to circle. And this one guy, Gray Sensei, he was very quiet. And whatever he's doing, all of a sudden, he says to his wife, circle something.

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Thank you very much. But often, Scott, mainly in Christian organizations that I worked with, they would do the affirmation exercise. And I would say to the audience, okay, now you've done that. Somebody, what was it like to be affirmed?

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Time after time, men and women would stand with tears and say, I remember one woman with a major international organization, she said, I've been here 23 years. This is the first time anyone in this organization has ever affirmed me.

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So what we're talking about when we say practicing love, the freedom to meet needs, is that we have the opportunity without—love is an amazing—it's interesting, I say this, love is an amazing healer. I love heals. There are numbers of people whose lives are a holy wreck, and then they meet somebody who loves them. Yeah. Yeah.

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and somebody who cares for them, and somebody who walks with them, and somebody who talks to them. And even the slightest thing causes them to think they matter. A little while ago, we were having a personal conversation about being on Skid Row and the number of people. And I worked on Skid Row every Friday night for nine months in Chicago. And I'd meet all these people. And Scott, even just sitting with a person,

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To hear their story is an affirmation because they feel nobody cares anymore. So as this opportunity arises for us to experience the love of the Lord, like for instance, every human being gets up every day with the need to be accepted. It's built in us. Yeah. And God says, hmm.

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You know what? I'm going to accept you with a love that you cannot earn. I'm going to accept you with a love you cannot earn. Yeah. Well, what if we could learn to accept each other with a love you couldn't earn? Yeah. Well, wait a minute. You know how screwed up we are. Don't we have to deal first with being screwed up? No. Please stop that.

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Yeah. Why don't you deal first with being accepted? Yeah. Accepted. It just popped into my mind just now. The woman at the well, she was overwhelmed by a man who accepted her, knowing what was true about her. Jesus did not condemn her. He just revealed her. Yeah. Yeah.

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Oh, gosh, could we learn that, Scott? Could we learn to just accept people as God accepts us? Yeah. We have so misunderstood the gospel. Let's make people feel as bad as they can. And the only way they'll transform. No, no, no. What if you'd love them so they could change rather than asking them to change so you could love them? Could I say that again?

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Oh, please say that again. What if you could love them so they could change rather than asking them to change so you could love them? Wow. What if we could learn that? Yeah. What if you and I could practice that in our relationship? Yeah. What if we could practice it in our families? What if our children knew that we accepted them because—

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That's it. Because. Yeah. Yeah, that would be amazing. That would be amazing. Yeah. And so as we think about this, it's like, so I am kind of pre-programmed now after all these years of thinking through this message of love. I'm pre-programmed now when I meet somebody. I'm literally in my heart of hearts. I'm searching for needs in them that I can intentionally meet.

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because I know that if they'll let me meet a need, they'll experience love. And when they experience love, I know, I know their heart opens to truth. Wow. As you know right now, because you're reading them, I'm just writing some stories about...

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about my life experiences with a lot of people. And one of them is a dear friend of mine, Mel, and you just read the story that I just wrote about him and when he became a believer. And I remember that period in Mel's life where he was just feeling bombarded by people who were talking to him about Jesus.

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And so he came over to see me, and he started asking me questions. He was 19 at the time, a very sharp young man, and started asking me questions. And I found out in that meeting he was from a Jewish background. And it was such an interesting time because I could tell how vulnerable he was. And he stood up and he said, Bill, do you have any idea what this is going to cost me?

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to become a Christian. And I said, I couldn't even begin to imagine. Yeah. I can't even imagine. But knowing the cost, he chose.

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to become a believer. Yes. And when he chose to become a believer, it was a beautiful time for me and him. It did something in my life that I didn't expect. All of a sudden, I felt an honest responsibility to love this guy and to minister with him and alongside him. He did something and his wife...

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They were soon married after that. But soon after his decision, he showed up at my doorstep with one of the greatest questions anyone has ever asked me. He said, what do I do now? Yeah. I don't know anything about Christianity. What do I do now? Yeah.

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What a great, great thing. In that moment, I can honestly say, I believe the Lord said to me, the greatest gift you're going to give this young man is to love him well, Bill. Love him well.

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And it laid a foundation in Mel and Beth and in our relationship in our ministry. And that was 60 years ago. Yeah, that's amazing. So every once in a while I have curveballs that I get to throw at my friend Bill that he doesn't know I'm going to ask. I've asked you this question before and you gave me an answer. And I honestly can't remember specifically the answer you gave me. So you have this definition that love is the process of meeting needs. Yes.

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So how in the world do we love God? Okay, good. That's a very good question. And the best way I can answer it is with an example of Jesus. Okay. When Jesus said, when you cared for the weak. You cared for me. You were caring for me. When you fed the hungry.

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You were feeding me. Wow. When you love someone, I am experiencing their love. Yeah. That's how we love him.

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I don't remember you telling me that. I wouldn't have had to answer the question if I had remembered. I may have answered it differently. I don't always have the same answer. But that's a beautiful statement. But that's what he said. In other words, his words were, when you do that—

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You're doing it unto me. Love. I'll experience love. I'll experience love. Yeah. I have a friend that works with the homeless, runs an organization called Love Columbia, and I can't wait for her. She listens every week. Oh, she does. Oh, good. She was Jane. You're talking about Jane. Oh, yeah. Jane. And so I can't wait till she hears this because that's beautiful. That would affirm and encourage her staff. Amen. Like nothing else. Thank you. Yeah. And it should encourage all of us.

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Yeah. You know, it's all of us. How do we love God? Yeah. Well, he told us. Jesus told us. This is how you love me. Care for the poor. Yeah. Feed the hungry. Yeah. Come alongside the lame. Yeah. You know, just imagine your love that I've given you, by the way.

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is going to reach to those that no one else ever touches. Yeah. Because that's where I, God, hang out. Yeah. That's what confuses us. I know this is another subject we'll get to, but I'll say it now. Unfortunately, the theology of the church predominantly has been to help Christians with their sin. That's an unfortunate theology. Yeah. Because what Christians should be being taught is how to love.

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In spite of the fact they sinned. That's what we should be teaching. Because if when we teach Christians that we're here to help you deal with your sin, then the message the Christian carries, everyone they meet, they're going to help with their sin.

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Yeah. And people get tired of the condemnation of the saints. Right. But what if Christians were learning how to love? What if they were learning how to experience love? What if they actually heard the words of Jesus and, like your friend, went into the places that are hardest on earth to share the love of God?

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The world will change. It will change because of love. Condemnation creates a distance from. Love draws in. We haven't talked about how in practicing love...

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We have to both be a lover and a lovey. A lovey. Thank you. For me to love, for me to love you, I have to have received love. Amen. I have to have my needs, Matt. Amen.

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In order for me to have something to meet your needs. Exactly. We love because you first loved us. Thank you for bringing that up, Scott. Thank you very much, because that's the order of love. Yeah. How do I experience the process of love? By being loved. Well, I was yet a sinner. So I do ask myself and you and our audience, who are you letting love you? Yeah. I'll ask you another question. Who is letting you love them?

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Now, be careful. Having a love for someone is not the same as that person experiencing the love you have for them. Right? So I didn't ask you, who do you have a love for? What I asked you was, who is letting you actually love them by meeting their needs?

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Who is actually close enough into your reality to meet your needs? I teasingly say, but I do mean it, Scott, I love to be loved. I'm sorry. I'm a sucker for love. Because I have lived deeply in the pain of being sinned against and of my own sin.

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I've lived in that pain. I don't like that pain. I'd rather live in the health of love. So I'm very intentional about letting people love me. I'm very intentional, as I said already, to look for ways to love into a life of someone. And by the way, I've said to a lot of people,

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Well, you know, this grace message, what do I get to do? Well, I'll tell you what you get to do. You get to love. Well, that's all I get to do. That's because you haven't tried loving. Loving is hard. You know, Jesus makes some incredible statements. Like he said, okay, you're getting this. Love one another. I got another one for you. How about love your enemies? Oh, wait, I'd rather just love Scott, my enemies. Oh, no. See, you don't understand love.

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until you reach intentionally into the needs of others. You don't understand love at all, but that always is hard. It's always hard, but it's always the fruit of grace every time. Yeah. I think that's a good place to land. Amen. Love and freedom. It's a good topic. We appreciate you being here, and we hope to see you next week.

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Thanks for listening to Living Influence. We appreciate you. Just a call to action. We would love it if you would share our podcast with one or two people this week. Thanks again.