WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.151 --> 00:00:01.152
Oh, now you're back, Trash.

2
00:00:01.873 --> 00:00:02.234
Hello?

3
00:00:03.155 --> 00:00:03.475
You're here.

4
00:00:03.535 --> 00:00:04.336
Oh, he's back.

5
00:00:04.436 --> 00:00:05.157
Yeah, what's up, Trash?

6
00:00:05.678 --> 00:00:06.279
Yo, what up?

7
00:00:06.399 --> 00:00:06.799
I don't know.

8
00:00:06.979 --> 00:00:07.740
I have a lot of internet.

9
00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:08.321
It's fast.

10
00:00:08.361 --> 00:00:09.543
I don't know why I just froze like that.

11
00:00:10.311 --> 00:00:10.971
Was it just me?

12
00:00:11.032 --> 00:00:12.132
I don't think it's you.

13
00:00:12.152 --> 00:00:13.754
Just like insecure about his internet.

14
00:00:13.774 --> 00:00:14.834
We didn't say it was slow.

15
00:00:16.395 --> 00:00:16.916
I swear, man.

16
00:00:16.936 --> 00:00:18.397
I got gigabit, dude.

17
00:00:18.417 --> 00:00:20.118
This never happens to me, bro.

18
00:00:20.198 --> 00:00:22.080
I swear this never happens.

19
00:00:25.982 --> 00:00:27.624
Anyways, sorry.

20
00:00:27.644 --> 00:00:28.704
We don't have Prime for the intro.

21
00:00:28.724 --> 00:00:31.526
Wait, let's call Prime just to do the intro.

22
00:00:32.307 --> 00:00:36.370
Well, but I kind of wanted to actually have enough time to learn something today.

23
00:00:36.390 --> 00:00:39.072
So we can't wait 45 minutes for Prime to start the episode.

24
00:00:39.744 --> 00:00:41.945
I like whenever Prime's not here, we actually learn stuff.

25
00:00:42.865 --> 00:00:43.066
Yes.

26
00:00:44.546 --> 00:00:45.106
That's the trick.

27
00:00:45.407 --> 00:00:48.988
How can I sneakily borrow Dylan's time for an hour?

28
00:00:49.008 --> 00:00:50.589
Well, I'll just call it the stand-up.

29
00:00:51.189 --> 00:00:51.930
It's smart.

30
00:00:51.950 --> 00:00:52.190
You know?

31
00:00:52.210 --> 00:00:52.910
There you go.

32
00:00:53.190 --> 00:00:56.872
Dylan, so why don't you tell us a little bit about what we're going to be doing today?

33
00:00:56.892 --> 00:01:03.015
Because all I asked you for was teach us how you're doing AI stuff with Pi, because I'm interested to watch that happen.

34
00:01:03.335 --> 00:01:04.595
You also have a podcast.

35
00:01:04.615 --> 00:01:05.356
I'm going to preempt you.

36
00:01:05.856 --> 00:01:07.157
We also have a podcast where we talk about this.

37
00:01:07.177 --> 00:01:12.139
You have an episode talking about this, but I wanted to ask particular questions as I go.

38
00:01:13.059 --> 00:01:15.320
I wanted to get the personal podcast experience.

39
00:01:15.361 --> 00:01:19.322
Yeah, listen, I've got hot takes for days on this topic.

40
00:01:19.362 --> 00:01:22.464
So we can yap about it a bunch.

41
00:01:22.624 --> 00:01:24.625
So I don't really know what we're doing today.

42
00:01:25.025 --> 00:01:25.986
Plug the podcast.

43
00:01:26.026 --> 00:01:28.026
You're supposed to say what your podcast is.

44
00:01:28.147 --> 00:01:34.149
Yeah, so Reese Sullivan, Sunil Pai, and I started a podcast called The Next Token.

45
00:01:34.289 --> 00:01:34.870
You can find it.

46
00:01:35.610 --> 00:01:36.750
I think pretty much everywhere.

47
00:01:37.450 --> 00:01:54.153
And we try to put a realistic spin on what it's like working with AI as people that are actually employed building real software for real users and not just yapping on Twitter or working at a lab and pushing token maxing.

48
00:01:54.713 --> 00:01:55.233
Yeah, Prime.

49
00:01:55.454 --> 00:01:55.974
Yeah, Prime.

50
00:01:56.954 --> 00:01:57.474
Yeah.

51
00:01:57.514 --> 00:02:01.715
So Dylan, why don't you spend $5 million a month on tokens?

52
00:02:02.175 --> 00:02:03.595
And why are you being left behind?

53
00:02:04.588 --> 00:02:05.809
I am so far left behind.

54
00:02:06.729 --> 00:02:08.170
It's almost embarrassing at this point.

55
00:02:08.370 --> 00:02:11.591
I can kind of say what I, so I've been, I listened to the next token podcast.

56
00:02:11.852 --> 00:02:14.513
I've been using every single harnessed under the sun.

57
00:02:14.533 --> 00:02:23.597
I literally this weekend, I started, or this Friday night, I started my Friday night by literally getting, like I have Claude, I have Codex, I have OpenCode, I have Cursor, I have,

58
00:02:23.757 --> 00:02:25.098
Pi literally next to each other.

59
00:02:25.419 --> 00:02:27.301
I wrote one prompt, and then I'm like, let's go.

60
00:02:27.381 --> 00:02:29.843
Let's see where I'm at with the tools and whatnot.

61
00:02:30.384 --> 00:02:32.966
And I just realized with Pi, I'm like an idiot.

62
00:02:33.066 --> 00:02:34.047
It's like, look, do whatever you want.

63
00:02:34.067 --> 00:02:34.448
I'm like, cool.

64
00:02:34.508 --> 00:02:37.070
I don't know what I – I rebuild open code with it.

65
00:02:37.611 --> 00:02:40.594
So I just feel the flexibility of it.

66
00:02:41.134 --> 00:02:44.555
I don't know what people are doing that's cool other than rebuilding the tools I already had.

67
00:02:44.655 --> 00:02:49.056
So I want to hear, like, what do you actually do with Pi?

68
00:02:49.156 --> 00:02:52.477
Do not just say you do custom stuff and then not tell us what the custom stuff is.

69
00:02:53.017 --> 00:02:54.598
Yeah, yeah, no, no, I'm fine with that.

70
00:02:54.678 --> 00:03:02.980
So, um, the, for anyone that doesn't know, Pi is a, uh, notably shitty, uh,

71
00:03:03.657 --> 00:03:07.022
coding agent built by Mario and Arendelle.

72
00:03:07.923 --> 00:03:09.586
It is intentionally very, very minimal.

73
00:03:09.606 --> 00:03:13.151
It doesn't have sub-agents, doesn't have MCP out of the box.

74
00:03:13.211 --> 00:03:16.636
The system prompt is like, I don't know, probably between 1,000, 2,000 tokens, $1,000.

75
00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:21.201
That doesn't change very often, which is something I like about it.

76
00:03:22.001 --> 00:03:23.222
Uh, it's very extendable.

77
00:03:23.743 --> 00:03:26.925
Uh, it has, it knows how to like update itself.

78
00:03:27.025 --> 00:03:34.430
So you can be like, oh, build me an MCP plugin, uh, like look at open code for inspiration on how to implement it.

79
00:03:34.471 --> 00:03:39.214
And it knows how to like go implement it with its plug into its system and go do it.

80
00:03:40.255 --> 00:03:40.495
Um, yeah.

81
00:03:42.461 --> 00:03:44.523
I ended up on Pi.

82
00:03:44.744 --> 00:03:47.587
I wanted to try it because I had read the code.

83
00:03:49.028 --> 00:03:50.490
A remarkable thing in this day and age.

84
00:03:50.510 --> 00:03:51.611
Wow, it must have been last year.

85
00:03:51.631 --> 00:03:52.311
I don't believe you.

86
00:03:52.352 --> 00:03:54.854
Remarkable in this day and age.

87
00:03:55.375 --> 00:03:59.379
But I had read the code and I had seen Mario...

88
00:04:02.343 --> 00:04:07.545
using abort controllers responsibly and proactively and correctly.

89
00:04:08.245 --> 00:04:12.186
And that is something that almost nobody does in TypeScript code.

90
00:04:13.327 --> 00:04:15.047
Unless you're using effect.

91
00:04:15.228 --> 00:04:15.448
Yeah.

92
00:04:15.588 --> 00:04:16.788
If you're using effect, by the way.

93
00:04:17.008 --> 00:04:18.469
Oh, gosh.

94
00:04:18.569 --> 00:04:18.989
Yeah.

95
00:04:19.029 --> 00:04:21.330
Everyone here on the podcast uses abort controllers.

96
00:04:21.410 --> 00:04:22.330
Perfectly reasonable.

97
00:04:22.610 --> 00:04:26.651
However, for some of the people out there who might not know what those are, maybe you want to explain.

98
00:04:27.012 --> 00:04:29.272
I'm not part of that group because I use effect.

99
00:04:29.492 --> 00:04:30.453
And that's part of effect.

100
00:04:31.073 --> 00:04:36.476
Yeah, we really just use effect, but not React use effect.

101
00:04:36.616 --> 00:04:38.277
No, no, no, no, no, no.

102
00:04:38.357 --> 00:04:52.105
So abort controllers are a way to manage and handle interruption and cancellation of async work in TypeScript and JavaScript and to accurately use them.

103
00:04:54.186 --> 00:05:06.433
Much like many things in plain TypeScript, it requires a shit ton of discipline and yeah, really just discipline and like basically prop drilling abort signals down through call stacks.

104
00:05:06.854 --> 00:05:10.936
It's miserable, but it does make a huge difference in the quality of software.

105
00:05:10.956 --> 00:05:20.202
Like a good example is maybe you have like, maybe you have like a docs LLM or like an LLM agent in your doc site and you're,

106
00:05:21.743 --> 00:05:29.008
users are yapping away at spending inference and like I asked some question in the docs and before the answer comes back I navigate away.

107
00:05:29.068 --> 00:05:31.109
Like you don't want to go pay for all that inference right?

108
00:05:31.129 --> 00:05:36.433
Like you can use an abort controller when the user leaves to cancel that request and then like save yourself a bunch of money.

109
00:05:36.493 --> 00:05:41.337
And there's a bunch of different use cases but like that's one that I think kind of like demonstrates the idea well.

110
00:05:41.677 --> 00:05:49.783
Did you know that I have done a lot of weird stuff that's difficult to explain to my father-in-law such as building a tower defense game in a water tower?

111
00:05:50.283 --> 00:06:00.491
pretending to be Mark Zuckerberg in a social network parody in SF, by the way, stands for San Francisco, or even did a live super smash brothers event at open sauce.

112
00:06:00.851 --> 00:06:03.734
Well, if you didn't know those things, you should just go check out the terminal channel.

113
00:06:03.754 --> 00:06:05.875
That's where I do all the fun group videos.

114
00:06:05.895 --> 00:06:06.316
Check it out.

115
00:06:06.636 --> 00:06:07.657
Links in the description.

116
00:06:08.517 --> 00:06:15.403
So anyways, I saw in the code Mario, you know, I was like, Oh, this is actually like very good typescript.

117
00:06:15.543 --> 00:06:19.546
Like it is very rare that you find a code base that, uh,

118
00:06:20.625 --> 00:06:21.465
accurately uses that.

119
00:06:21.485 --> 00:06:22.426
So I was like, all right, you know what?

120
00:06:22.466 --> 00:06:23.086
I'll give it a try.

121
00:06:23.166 --> 00:06:24.926
Up until this point, I've been using open code.

122
00:06:24.986 --> 00:06:27.467
And this is like, I don't know, I had to be back in like March.

123
00:06:27.487 --> 00:06:34.289
So like, I didn't really start using AI heavily until the beginning of December at Opus 4.5 came out.

124
00:06:34.730 --> 00:06:38.191
So like I was still- Just before you came and deleted our front ends in San Francisco.

125
00:06:38.671 --> 00:06:39.931
Listen- Oh yeah, remember that.

126
00:06:40.231 --> 00:06:46.413
Hey, we were the first to have an AI agent escape containment and go do something wrong.

127
00:06:46.433 --> 00:06:47.294
That's true.

128
00:06:47.354 --> 00:06:47.774
All right?

129
00:06:49.234 --> 00:06:51.536
We were there first.

130
00:06:51.596 --> 00:06:54.718
We were the first to experience Kimmy K's bad side, okay?

131
00:06:55.398 --> 00:06:55.939
She crazy.

132
00:06:56.379 --> 00:07:01.643
Also, Dylan, for life, you're going to be catching up for those three months where you weren't fully AI psychosis.

133
00:07:01.663 --> 00:07:03.884
You could have been AI psychosis three months earlier.

134
00:07:04.404 --> 00:07:05.785
Think about how much more ahead you could be.

135
00:07:05.945 --> 00:07:06.366
I know.

136
00:07:07.406 --> 00:07:11.849
I could be token-maxing, looping, and crapping now.

137
00:07:11.869 --> 00:07:12.470
I got a question.

138
00:07:13.892 --> 00:07:18.775
So the way you describe Pi, it sounds like it's like the Vim of like the AI space.

139
00:07:19.136 --> 00:07:19.896
Is that like correct?

140
00:07:20.036 --> 00:07:22.918
Like where it's really thin and you just add on things effectively?

141
00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:23.819
Yeah.

142
00:07:23.999 --> 00:07:28.002
I think that's a probably good way to position it.

143
00:07:28.062 --> 00:07:32.084
I think it's probably more friendly than Vim.

144
00:07:32.224 --> 00:07:36.207
Like I think it's way harder to get started with Vim than it would be.

145
00:07:37.608 --> 00:07:40.250
But I guess like more the aspect of like minimalist type approach.

146
00:07:40.270 --> 00:07:40.370
Yeah.

147
00:07:40.731 --> 00:07:41.011
Yeah.

148
00:07:41.512 --> 00:07:49.058
And I can get into why I think minimalism is important and kind of what, that's kind of what made me jump over to Pi.

149
00:07:49.898 --> 00:07:55.102
It's not like I was intentionally going after like an M-Vin based like, you know, harness or anything.

150
00:07:55.122 --> 00:08:00.487
Like at that point I didn't have strong enough opinions about like even what a harness was and what it should do.

151
00:08:02.468 --> 00:08:04.149
So it was like very vibe based at the time.

152
00:08:04.169 --> 00:08:05.150
So yeah,

153
00:08:10.505 --> 00:08:26.054
I tried to start using it after I saw... Actually, I think a better way to position it than comparing it to Nvim is TJ actually put out like a couple of maybe one video or a couple of videos like a couple of years ago on PDEs, personal development environments.

154
00:08:26.634 --> 00:08:32.538
And like, I really feel like because of the way you can work with

155
00:08:33.638 --> 00:08:39.762
Pi, like you can mold it around your workflow and individual repos.

156
00:08:39.782 --> 00:08:57.812
Like Ben vinegar from modem had a good, um, uh, conversation, I think on his, his podcast with Armin talking about how he shaped and just for a particular, a particular project and use case, he shaped Pi around like editing, uh, his podcast, like build tools and extensions to make that easier.

157
00:08:57.832 --> 00:09:00.934
So it's just like, it's very easy to do that kind of thing.

158
00:09:00.954 --> 00:09:02.055
Um, yeah.

159
00:09:03.267 --> 00:09:11.492
So the first time I used Pi, I like immediately went to like the, it has like an extension marketplace on its website.

160
00:09:12.233 --> 00:09:13.814
And I was like, okay, I need sub agents.

161
00:09:13.854 --> 00:09:14.814
I need my MCP.

162
00:09:14.874 --> 00:09:16.295
I'll look at this cool answer tool.

163
00:09:16.375 --> 00:09:17.576
Look at, I started, you know.

164
00:09:17.636 --> 00:09:21.518
Oh no, you did the, you did the NeoVim thing of, well, I need every plugin.

165
00:09:21.739 --> 00:09:21.959
Yeah.

166
00:09:21.979 --> 00:09:23.680
I gotta have literally every single one.

167
00:09:24.140 --> 00:09:26.741
This is why I want to do this with Dylan, because that's what I'm doing.

168
00:09:26.761 --> 00:09:28.442
And I'm like, I don't know what the point of this is.

169
00:09:28.482 --> 00:09:34.524
I'm building a really bad open code that I'm, like, vibe coding pieces together, and then it's bad.

170
00:09:34.544 --> 00:09:35.285
And I'm like, I don't know why.

171
00:09:35.305 --> 00:09:35.425
So.

172
00:09:36.808 --> 00:09:38.589
Yeah, so that's exactly what happened to me.

173
00:09:38.629 --> 00:09:44.370
The first time I tried to use Pi, I turned off it in like a week because I was like, I'm just making a shittier version of open code.

174
00:09:44.450 --> 00:09:50.992
Like my expectation of harnesses at the time was like, oh, open code is kind of like this gold standard here.

175
00:09:51.172 --> 00:09:54.453
And like, you know, it doesn't have the jank that cloud code does.

176
00:09:54.573 --> 00:09:57.934
Codex was like, Codex wasn't really a thing yet.

177
00:09:58.875 --> 00:10:01.776
I mean, it was, but it wasn't like getting huge market share yet.

178
00:10:03.216 --> 00:10:06.258
So I turned off it because I was like, oh, my sub agents are terrible.

179
00:10:06.899 --> 00:10:10.302
And my MCP plugin keeps not working the way I wanted to.

180
00:10:10.942 --> 00:10:14.045
And it doesn't connect to Cloudflare AI Gateway the way I wanted to.

181
00:10:14.405 --> 00:10:17.187
And I don't know all these things I just installed.

182
00:10:17.207 --> 00:10:18.328
And they're updating all the time.

183
00:10:18.348 --> 00:10:19.049
The best place to get AI?

184
00:10:19.149 --> 00:10:19.729
Just wondering.

185
00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:22.291
The best place.

186
00:10:22.811 --> 00:10:24.473
We're going to ask them for a check after this too.

187
00:10:24.493 --> 00:10:27.295
Because we were officially on Agents Week.

188
00:10:27.355 --> 00:10:27.915
Heads up.

189
00:10:28.196 --> 00:10:28.896
Hashtag Agents Week.

190
00:10:30.167 --> 00:10:35.473
So I turned off and then maybe, I don't know, a month later, I tried again.

191
00:10:35.493 --> 00:10:46.046
I started probably getting more opinionated about context management in the period between that and really getting a sense for how does...

192
00:10:46.987 --> 00:10:56.330
How does in particular like agents MD impact the performance of my model and the harness and how are skills playing a role in that?

193
00:10:56.570 --> 00:10:58.811
And so I started developing stronger opinions in that time.

194
00:10:59.331 --> 00:11:01.432
And then I went back and I tried pie again.

195
00:11:02.032 --> 00:11:11.596
And this time I explicitly was like, I'm not going to install a single extension until I feel a pain point.

196
00:11:12.602 --> 00:11:17.165
And when I feel pain, that's when I will go and look for something.

197
00:11:17.805 --> 00:11:25.610
And I will pay pretty good attention to like how it's implemented, like go read the code, uh, and just figure out if that's the right solution.

198
00:11:25.630 --> 00:11:26.551
Otherwise I'll build my own.

199
00:11:26.831 --> 00:11:31.114
And I, um, I met the.

200
00:11:32.558 --> 00:11:35.502
I really, my PI, you can look at my .files.

201
00:11:35.522 --> 00:11:37.544
Like I do not have like a lot of extensions.

202
00:11:38.946 --> 00:11:49.640
I have a, I ended up copying open code MCP implementation because we use Cloudflare portal and we have a bunch of like business MCPs inside that just make life so much easier.

203
00:11:50.821 --> 00:11:51.342
I have,

204
00:11:52.973 --> 00:11:55.815
Let me even just pull up my .files real quick, and I can just read this off.

205
00:11:55.835 --> 00:11:58.557
There's literally like I have a custom portal.

206
00:11:58.757 --> 00:11:59.418
You can show us.

207
00:11:59.658 --> 00:12:01.159
Oh, I can screen share?

208
00:12:01.239 --> 00:12:01.580
Oh, my God.

209
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:02.440
We actually have the technology.

210
00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:03.501
Oh, yeah, of course.

211
00:12:03.521 --> 00:12:03.821
We have.

212
00:12:04.222 --> 00:12:05.142
Very advanced.

213
00:12:05.182 --> 00:12:05.603
Riverside.

214
00:12:05.623 --> 00:12:06.303
Watch this.

215
00:12:06.323 --> 00:12:07.844
New Cloudflare Agents Week.

216
00:12:07.864 --> 00:12:09.986
This is their new screen share feature.

217
00:12:10.026 --> 00:12:11.627
It's brand new.

218
00:12:12.688 --> 00:12:13.769
Don't have to push buttons.

219
00:12:13.789 --> 00:12:16.371
You're supposed to wait to see if it works or not before we say that.

220
00:12:16.511 --> 00:12:16.991
Oh, yeah.

221
00:12:17.011 --> 00:12:17.712
You're so smart.

222
00:12:17.732 --> 00:12:17.852
Okay.

223
00:12:18.865 --> 00:12:20.026
Hey, Cloudflare, screen share.

224
00:12:20.046 --> 00:12:22.587
I just take a moment for the podcast listeners.

225
00:12:24.268 --> 00:12:32.512
I picked this very simple way of sharing this screen, which is I just literally am sharing the browser window, and I just want everyone else to know that it just immediately worked.

226
00:12:32.532 --> 00:12:38.855
We didn't have to do 37 different OBS transitions, and I didn't have to do a stinger.

227
00:12:39.056 --> 00:12:41.457
I didn't have the primogen on you or anything.

228
00:12:41.857 --> 00:12:45.059
We just left the screen the way it was, and now we can see Dylan's screen.

229
00:12:45.319 --> 00:12:45.759
So just like...

230
00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:49.361
I just want to throw it out there.

231
00:12:49.461 --> 00:12:50.422
I didn't even practice.

232
00:12:50.762 --> 00:12:55.645
So for longtime watchers of the pod, I think they'll be impressed with some skills here.

233
00:12:55.765 --> 00:12:58.087
How many tokens did that cost, though, Teach?

234
00:12:58.107 --> 00:13:00.588
That must have been running since the podcast started.

235
00:13:00.608 --> 00:13:02.529
It's been running a GPT 3.5 for 16 months.

236
00:13:02.589 --> 00:13:02.789
Yeah.

237
00:13:09.226 --> 00:13:09.566
Excellent.

238
00:13:10.026 --> 00:13:10.507
Okay, sorry.

239
00:13:10.547 --> 00:13:12.208
Anyways, Dylan, you may continue now.

240
00:13:12.248 --> 00:13:12.528
Go ahead.

241
00:13:12.668 --> 00:13:15.109
Okay, so my extensions.

242
00:13:15.389 --> 00:13:19.131
This is all of them, and most of them aren't really that important.

243
00:13:19.231 --> 00:13:20.832
I don't know why there's a test directory in here.

244
00:13:20.852 --> 00:13:21.973
What's in whimsical.ts?

245
00:13:22.253 --> 00:13:23.894
I thought you read the code, Dylan.

246
00:13:24.074 --> 00:13:25.615
Why do you mean I don't know what that's doing there?

247
00:13:25.635 --> 00:13:26.095
Uh-oh.

248
00:13:26.635 --> 00:13:28.396
Listen, I test my code as well.

249
00:13:28.796 --> 00:13:30.618
I know about trash.

250
00:13:30.878 --> 00:13:32.199
It's true.

251
00:13:32.219 --> 00:13:39.123
These are just like the things that like when the agent is loading, like are doing stuff, it just cycles through loading.

252
00:13:39.223 --> 00:13:41.004
Is that is that is that cloud codes?

253
00:13:41.024 --> 00:13:42.125
Did you take that from cloud codes?

254
00:13:42.145 --> 00:13:42.785
You stole this.

255
00:13:42.845 --> 00:13:44.186
You stole this.

256
00:13:44.326 --> 00:13:45.947
I I slop forked it from Armin.

257
00:13:46.828 --> 00:13:48.789
Oh, I recognize these phrases.

258
00:13:48.809 --> 00:13:49.049
Oh.

259
00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:51.060
You thesaurus to that?

260
00:13:51.160 --> 00:13:52.321
It's literally a thesaurus.

261
00:13:52.381 --> 00:13:56.202
I did add some functional programming ones in here.

262
00:13:56.742 --> 00:14:02.103
I will say you're being using AI to make dynamic like waiting?

263
00:14:02.183 --> 00:14:04.864
No, it's a list of 600 strings in a file.

264
00:14:04.904 --> 00:14:05.964
Oh, the old AI.

265
00:14:06.004 --> 00:14:08.785
It's a bunch of if statements back in the day.

266
00:14:09.945 --> 00:14:10.405
OK, here.

267
00:14:11.025 --> 00:14:17.607
So this one is just literally like a custom gateway that we use that I just connect to to get my inference through.

268
00:14:19.463 --> 00:14:20.583
And then we have PyCloak.

269
00:14:21.104 --> 00:14:24.905
If you're a streamer and use NeoVim, you should be familiar with Cloak.mvim.

270
00:14:25.625 --> 00:14:29.247
It basically masks environment variables if you open them.

271
00:14:29.727 --> 00:14:38.490
So if my agent reads an environment file or something like that that looks like a token, it will just start it out in the output.

272
00:14:39.810 --> 00:14:41.431
I have this thing I built called PyCloak.

273
00:14:41.471 --> 00:14:42.111
Just a quick note.

274
00:14:42.151 --> 00:14:44.172
Chat's saying right now you still leak them.

275
00:14:45.325 --> 00:14:47.147
Uh, chat's full of it.

276
00:14:47.167 --> 00:14:49.429
They don't know what they're talking about.

277
00:14:49.449 --> 00:14:51.450
That never happens.

278
00:14:51.490 --> 00:14:52.151
I've never leaked.

279
00:14:52.391 --> 00:14:54.613
I've never leaked ones in my life.

280
00:14:55.393 --> 00:14:57.775
PySkillToggle skills have like this.

281
00:14:58.055 --> 00:15:00.037
Some harnesses will respect this setting.

282
00:15:00.057 --> 00:15:02.919
You can change in the front matter.

283
00:15:03.099 --> 00:15:04.801
That is, I don't know if I'm going to be able to find it.

284
00:15:06.382 --> 00:15:13.908
But you can set a thing in the YAML front matter of a skill that toggles it from being agent invocable or only human invocable.

285
00:15:14.788 --> 00:15:20.310
Um, and when it's only human invocable, it doesn't get injected into the agent's context window.

286
00:15:21.391 --> 00:15:25.873
Um, so I have that to basically set the skills I want in my session.

287
00:15:26.713 --> 00:15:27.153
Um, kind of.

288
00:15:27.253 --> 00:15:29.234
What do you, what do you, are you just saying a new field in front of matter?

289
00:15:29.805 --> 00:15:32.266
Yeah, it literally just writes the front matter field.

290
00:15:32.787 --> 00:15:33.367
Oh, good.

291
00:15:33.407 --> 00:15:34.067
This is a good one.

292
00:15:34.087 --> 00:15:35.708
I've seen you tweet about this one, I'm pretty sure.

293
00:15:36.088 --> 00:15:37.029
Yeah, I also stole this one.

294
00:15:37.209 --> 00:15:38.209
Oh, that's why I saw them too.

295
00:15:38.229 --> 00:15:40.751
People keep tweeting like I created this, but I did not.

296
00:15:41.231 --> 00:15:44.913
The person who made Planotator made this, and I stole it from them.

297
00:15:45.593 --> 00:15:48.234
So please give credit to Michael, creator of Planotator.

298
00:15:48.254 --> 00:15:48.875
Dylan, we can...

299
00:15:49.575 --> 00:15:50.576
We don't need to do that here.

300
00:15:50.616 --> 00:15:55.783
We can just do the Kit Langdon effect, and we can just make it so that you created skills.

301
00:15:55.843 --> 00:15:56.364
You made this?

302
00:15:56.384 --> 00:15:57.285
You just created skills.

303
00:15:57.305 --> 00:15:58.246
I'm going to tweet this right now.

304
00:15:58.306 --> 00:15:59.848
Dylan just made the sickest skill.

305
00:16:01.190 --> 00:16:02.752
Oh, I was thinking we'd go one step further.

306
00:16:02.772 --> 00:16:04.053
We'd just say Dylan made skills.

307
00:16:04.783 --> 00:16:05.243
Okay, true.

308
00:16:05.263 --> 00:16:05.343
Wow.

309
00:16:05.404 --> 00:16:05.844
The whole thing.

310
00:16:05.864 --> 00:16:06.985
Dylan, the inventor of skills.

311
00:16:07.425 --> 00:16:08.986
Dylan, the inventor of skills.

312
00:16:09.066 --> 00:16:10.827
I don't know if I want that on my hand.

313
00:16:11.328 --> 00:16:12.448
I don't think you want that one.

314
00:16:12.468 --> 00:16:13.709
I think it's a hot potato.

315
00:16:13.729 --> 00:16:17.852
We need to see how it plays out over the next few years, if that's a good one or not.

316
00:16:17.912 --> 00:16:20.334
Yeah, I don't think you want skills to be your...

317
00:16:21.995 --> 00:16:23.476
I have an Eli 5 skill.

318
00:16:23.956 --> 00:16:26.618
Help me understand all the crazy words they say.

319
00:16:27.461 --> 00:16:28.161
You should try this one.

320
00:16:28.241 --> 00:16:29.122
It's actually very good.

321
00:16:29.702 --> 00:16:34.483
But anyways, so that extension literally just toggles this line and then reloads the harness.

322
00:16:34.963 --> 00:16:35.644
So we'll remove it.

323
00:16:35.664 --> 00:16:39.565
Did this start from Matt Pocock or did everyone else kind of just... What?

324
00:16:39.685 --> 00:16:42.026
Because I know the disabled model invocation.

325
00:16:42.486 --> 00:16:43.866
I have no idea where it came from.

326
00:16:43.886 --> 00:16:44.847
Okay.

327
00:16:45.067 --> 00:16:47.367
I thought it was part of the official spec, but apparently it's not.

328
00:16:47.968 --> 00:16:48.528
Maybe it is.

329
00:16:48.568 --> 00:16:49.968
I don't know.

330
00:16:51.149 --> 00:16:53.890
Can you break down for the people in our audience who don't know what that does?

331
00:16:54.150 --> 00:16:54.870
I obviously do.

332
00:16:55.555 --> 00:16:57.717
The disabled model invocation?

333
00:16:57.737 --> 00:16:59.779
This thing?

334
00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:00.160
Yeah.

335
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:00.520
Yeah.

336
00:17:00.860 --> 00:17:15.095
When you open your coding harness and you have a bunch of skills, if this is false or not included in the front matter of the skill, it will load the description and name of your skill in like two XML tags.

337
00:17:15.155 --> 00:17:15.916
So like one...

338
00:17:17.197 --> 00:17:19.358
Skills get loaded into your context window.

339
00:17:19.398 --> 00:17:21.159
It's like an XML bracket skills.

340
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.040
And then each skill has like skill.

341
00:17:23.781 --> 00:17:26.022
And then it'll have like skill name and skill description.

342
00:17:26.222 --> 00:17:28.503
And that just will always sit in your context window.

343
00:17:29.104 --> 00:17:33.606
And kind of like I was mentioning earlier, I became very sensitive to what is in my context.

344
00:17:33.946 --> 00:17:42.811
And like anything that is not helping me for my particular task is just noise and will cause more deviation than I want.

345
00:17:42.831 --> 00:17:44.032
Yeah.

346
00:17:44.812 --> 00:17:45.934
from the agent doing the right thing.

347
00:17:46.695 --> 00:17:48.678
So I basically built this thing to toggle this.

348
00:17:49.098 --> 00:17:53.926
And when it's disabled, it does not load the skill into the context window.

349
00:17:55.199 --> 00:17:57.580
You can invoke it as to like a slash command, right?

350
00:17:58.180 --> 00:17:58.320
Yeah.

351
00:17:58.340 --> 00:17:59.580
The agent can't discover it then.

352
00:17:59.860 --> 00:18:00.160
And right.

353
00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:00.340
Right.

354
00:18:00.541 --> 00:18:02.141
Which is nice, especially for some stuff.

355
00:18:02.181 --> 00:18:13.904
Like maybe I have it, you know, for like cursor cloud agents, it'll record the video of stuff sometimes, but it would be nice if I had like a, I sometimes just tell it, don't record videos for this.

356
00:18:14.184 --> 00:18:14.604
You know what I mean?

357
00:18:15.064 --> 00:18:20.546
But it's like, it would be nice if it just didn't even know that it could record videos so that I don't have to tell it not to record videos.

358
00:18:20.686 --> 00:18:21.986
for certain things, you know what I'm saying?

359
00:18:22.006 --> 00:18:24.647
Like that would be this kind of, don't use the browser for this.

360
00:18:24.807 --> 00:18:25.647
Just run the CLI.

361
00:18:26.067 --> 00:18:27.988
Stop spending tokens opening up a browser.

362
00:18:28.088 --> 00:18:29.708
Like, you know, that kind of thing.

363
00:18:30.248 --> 00:18:43.472
I will say also, if people do like adopt an extension like this, that when you do run this, it will cause a cash invalidation and you'll get charged for your full context window again.

364
00:18:43.512 --> 00:18:44.012
So just be,

365
00:18:45.173 --> 00:18:46.415
be aware at the beginning.

366
00:18:46.735 --> 00:18:47.016
Yeah.

367
00:18:47.416 --> 00:18:53.045
Start a new session or if you're okay with just getting charged again, uh, that's just paying for it.

368
00:18:53.065 --> 00:18:53.486
It's okay.

369
00:18:54.520 --> 00:18:55.320
That's also a hot take.

370
00:18:55.340 --> 00:18:56.581
That's what shareholders are.

371
00:18:56.601 --> 00:18:58.162
I was just kidding.

372
00:18:58.222 --> 00:18:59.202
I was a reporter to that.

373
00:18:59.242 --> 00:18:59.682
No, stop.

374
00:18:59.742 --> 00:19:00.603
Rewind.

375
00:19:00.623 --> 00:19:00.983
Rewind.

376
00:19:01.043 --> 00:19:01.523
Rewind this.

377
00:19:01.563 --> 00:19:02.183
Rewind this.

378
00:19:02.523 --> 00:19:04.624
At some companies, you get a bonus for using more.

379
00:19:04.644 --> 00:19:04.824
Trash.

380
00:19:04.864 --> 00:19:05.384
That's a good point.

381
00:19:05.404 --> 00:19:06.845
You're using a lot of tokens today.

382
00:19:06.905 --> 00:19:08.046
Very good.

383
00:19:08.086 --> 00:19:08.966
Not at my work.

384
00:19:09.006 --> 00:19:09.586
Oh, my goodness.

385
00:19:10.026 --> 00:19:10.366
Vegan.

386
00:19:11.047 --> 00:19:14.568
Instead of a mouse jiggler, we just have a cash invalidator.

387
00:19:14.608 --> 00:19:18.710
That's the 2026 version of a mouse jiggler for pretending you're at work.

388
00:19:19.650 --> 00:19:20.831
It's true.

389
00:19:20.851 --> 00:19:21.731
What else you got, Dylan?

390
00:19:22.011 --> 00:19:24.993
Well, I have two questions about this because this is what I also hear from Pi people.

391
00:19:25.313 --> 00:19:28.535
You hear Pi people talk and they go, yeah, I'm really becoming context sensitive.

392
00:19:28.555 --> 00:19:30.336
I've heard multiple people say that.

393
00:19:30.956 --> 00:19:35.239
And I want to understand, like, what does that actually look like in terms of, like, how are you monitoring?

394
00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:38.761
So far what I've done is I start adding more stuff to my agents.

395
00:19:39.021 --> 00:19:39.921
I add more skills.

396
00:19:40.021 --> 00:19:45.884
And then, like, after, like, a week or so of that, I rage quit at 2 a.m. and I delete everything.

397
00:19:45.924 --> 00:19:46.985
And I start back from blank.

398
00:19:47.379 --> 00:19:49.441
And I've just done that process like six times.

399
00:19:50.081 --> 00:19:52.043
And I don't, I'm not building up to anything.

400
00:19:52.083 --> 00:20:01.911
I don't have any like scientific method of knowing if like my, the context that I'm building up full of like my little tips and tricks and agents and my skills are actually helping or not.

401
00:20:02.451 --> 00:20:03.472
So yeah, how are you doing this?

402
00:20:04.132 --> 00:20:07.435
I also pretty regularly rage quit at two in the morning.

403
00:20:07.975 --> 00:20:08.916
So you're not alone.

404
00:20:08.936 --> 00:20:09.917
Um, yeah.

405
00:20:11.331 --> 00:20:24.798
I would say some of it is vibes, but there are benchmarks out there showing that Pi scores exceptionally high when compared against other harnesses.

406
00:20:25.018 --> 00:20:28.300
I don't know what the exact links are, but I'm sure you can go find them.

407
00:20:28.620 --> 00:20:30.461
They're out there, and it's actually a legit thing.

408
00:20:30.481 --> 00:20:38.225
The other thing is there was a blog post, or maybe it was included in one of these benchmarks, that the initial prompt...

409
00:20:39.205 --> 00:20:53.684
on any given harness you have to pay every time you start a new session for all of your system prompt and all of your skills and tools and because the system prompt of pi is so minimal like

410
00:20:54.425 --> 00:21:07.341
it's like 2000 tokens where like cloud code, I know cloud code recently trimmed it down, but before it was like, you know, you're getting charged for like immediately you're in to like 22 K of token usage just for the system prompts.

411
00:21:08.102 --> 00:21:10.184
I would call it that question.

412
00:21:10.204 --> 00:21:12.087
Like what are they adding to the prompt?

413
00:21:12.107 --> 00:21:13.528
I can't imagine why.

414
00:21:14.474 --> 00:21:17.456
Why a provider would want that?

415
00:21:17.496 --> 00:21:18.217
It was crazy.

416
00:21:18.397 --> 00:21:19.538
I went to the gas station.

417
00:21:19.878 --> 00:21:24.821
They had this they had this thing and you just poured some gas into an empty bucket first before I got to put it into my car.

418
00:21:24.841 --> 00:21:27.743
I just put $20 of gas into the empty bucket before I get to fill my.

419
00:21:29.665 --> 00:21:30.465
I have a question.

420
00:21:30.485 --> 00:21:31.966
I have a quick question.

421
00:21:32.887 --> 00:21:36.068
So what are these harnesses adding to your prompt?

422
00:21:36.328 --> 00:21:39.989
Like what are they concatenating their strings to or your strings to?

423
00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:41.369
I love that phrase!

424
00:21:41.469 --> 00:21:42.509
I'm from Claude Code.

425
00:21:42.729 --> 00:21:43.910
This prompt's from Claude Code.

426
00:21:43.930 --> 00:21:44.590
Like what's it doing?

427
00:21:44.610 --> 00:21:46.590
What are they concatenating their strings to?

428
00:21:46.710 --> 00:21:48.091
I love that, Trash.

429
00:21:49.731 --> 00:21:50.691
Because that's what it all is.

430
00:21:50.711 --> 00:21:52.352
We're all just string builders.

431
00:21:52.412 --> 00:21:53.812
That's like all this is at the core.

432
00:21:54.112 --> 00:21:57.073
So let me just get to a fresh session here.

433
00:21:57.233 --> 00:21:59.273
And if I do toggle skills, right?

434
00:21:59.293 --> 00:22:00.073
Is that chat on the side?

435
00:22:03.185 --> 00:22:04.007
Oh, yeah, I can close that out.

436
00:22:04.027 --> 00:22:04.709
This guy streams.

437
00:22:05.050 --> 00:22:06.012
No, no.

438
00:22:06.032 --> 00:22:07.135
Keep talking.

439
00:22:07.295 --> 00:22:08.879
That was my chat, not your guys' chat.

440
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:09.600
Yeah, I know.

441
00:22:09.661 --> 00:22:10.242
It was dangerous.

442
00:22:10.663 --> 00:22:12.427
They were about to start saying crazy things.

443
00:22:13.632 --> 00:22:15.673
So when you load in, you can see what's in the context.

444
00:22:15.753 --> 00:22:17.493
It will automatically read the agent's MD.

445
00:22:17.553 --> 00:22:18.594
It will be the system prompt.

446
00:22:19.054 --> 00:22:21.154
Some of these skills will not be toggled.

447
00:22:21.194 --> 00:22:25.056
But in here, the ones that are checked white.

448
00:22:25.356 --> 00:22:26.256
So Pi just made this.

449
00:22:26.296 --> 00:22:33.618
I was like, build me an extension that lets me toggle the agent invocable front matter in a skill.

450
00:22:33.638 --> 00:22:35.099
And it just built this UI.

451
00:22:35.739 --> 00:22:38.500
And I can just go toggle this on and off.

452
00:22:39.647 --> 00:22:42.348
And when it's done, I can click, what is it?

453
00:22:42.608 --> 00:22:45.449
Control S to save, and then it reloads.

454
00:22:46.370 --> 00:22:49.591
And now it's not invocable by the agent or it is.

455
00:22:49.651 --> 00:22:51.912
I don't remember which way I toggled it.

456
00:22:52.472 --> 00:22:55.553
So that's that skill, not skill, extension.

457
00:22:56.493 --> 00:23:06.177
The other ones I have are- So the extension, your extension for your PySkill toggle also has the code for that UI piece.

458
00:23:06.915 --> 00:23:07.996
Yeah, yep, exactly.

459
00:23:08.316 --> 00:23:08.517
Nice.

460
00:23:08.537 --> 00:23:10.519
There will be, yeah, like you made a UI folder.

461
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:12.581
Gotcha.

462
00:23:12.941 --> 00:23:18.867
And like the system prompt for Pi has instructions for how to like build extensions and UIs for itself.

463
00:23:19.728 --> 00:23:20.428
Gotcha.

464
00:23:21.630 --> 00:23:23.632
Pi is all terminal only.

465
00:23:24.733 --> 00:23:28.877
People have built UIs for it, I'm assuming as well, of course, non-terminal ones.

466
00:23:29.773 --> 00:23:31.774
Yep, yep.

467
00:23:31.954 --> 00:23:35.095
In fact, I think... We could maybe fork it, make a UI version.

468
00:23:35.215 --> 00:23:36.115
Slot fork it.

469
00:23:36.615 --> 00:23:37.416
Call it Tau.

470
00:23:38.036 --> 00:23:38.816
Toys is good.

471
00:23:39.136 --> 00:23:45.379
Splitting it into client and server architecture so we could have different front ends eventually.

472
00:23:45.399 --> 00:23:45.959
Nice.

473
00:23:46.939 --> 00:23:55.682
Another one I have is this little save markdown thing, and this literally just saves the last agent message to a markdown file.

474
00:23:57.003 --> 00:23:57.563
That's useful.

475
00:23:57.583 --> 00:23:58.163
I need that.

476
00:23:59.441 --> 00:24:00.522
Whoops, I did the wrong one.

477
00:24:02.423 --> 00:24:04.064
It's markdown, save markdown.

478
00:24:05.845 --> 00:24:07.066
Jesus, can't use my own skills.

479
00:24:08.113 --> 00:24:09.414
We'll cut that out in post, don't worry.

480
00:24:09.454 --> 00:24:11.336
We're going to make it look so good.

481
00:24:11.376 --> 00:24:14.118
Josh, definitely don't zoom in on that and show the warning.

482
00:24:14.158 --> 00:24:15.279
I'm skill issuing myself.

483
00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:17.201
I'm like, it's working well.

484
00:24:17.261 --> 00:24:17.841
It's working well.

485
00:24:17.861 --> 00:24:18.462
It's working well.

486
00:24:18.502 --> 00:24:19.162
Save Markdown.

487
00:24:19.182 --> 00:24:19.262
Foo.

488
00:24:19.282 --> 00:24:20.683
I was going to say this.

489
00:24:20.703 --> 00:24:22.545
Saved it to Foo.Markdown.

490
00:24:22.705 --> 00:24:27.148
You also are showing off something else, which I was going to ask about, which is you're on Herder.

491
00:24:27.629 --> 00:24:28.249
People are asking.

492
00:24:28.409 --> 00:24:31.632
Don't look at my Herder.

493
00:24:32.172 --> 00:24:34.855
After Dylan did a podcast with his buds,

494
00:24:35.722 --> 00:24:36.423
And he showed Herder.

495
00:24:36.463 --> 00:24:38.507
Everyone's like, I'm going to start using Herder on Twitter.

496
00:24:38.527 --> 00:24:39.789
I was like, oh, I see what that is.

497
00:24:39.809 --> 00:24:40.850
Big AI influencer.

498
00:24:41.531 --> 00:24:43.735
Herder's actually very...

499
00:24:43.895 --> 00:24:44.937
I actually think that...

500
00:24:46.008 --> 00:24:56.357
Even if you aren't using AI or if you're using the terminal pretty exclusively and you're using Tmux, I think Herder is a better multiplexer than Tmux.

501
00:24:56.437 --> 00:24:58.278
Like it supports kitty image protocol.

502
00:24:58.298 --> 00:24:59.459
It's built on libghosty.

503
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:05.004
And like I know Mitchell just started the company to build and like the first thing they're building is a multiplexer.

504
00:25:05.024 --> 00:25:09.468
But until that's ready, Herder is like a very quality piece of software.

505
00:25:10.370 --> 00:25:30.078
I will say I love the idea you're saying even if you don't use AI I'm like I need to hear this use case so bad you're going to tell people listen it's actually useful for I don't know I am not on Herder I did switch from I would make a long time the only YouTube video I've ever made is about T-Mucks so that's how you know I actually care about it I term newbie

506
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.021
I was using, I've been using Tmux since 2014.

507
00:25:34.621 --> 00:25:45.508
So like when, when I started using Herder, I was like, this has to be like exceptionally good for me to switch because like I've, I've had my, I've been pulling my config around with me for 12 years now at this point.

508
00:25:46.249 --> 00:25:58.317
And, uh, like basically my key binds and everything just transferred over like pretty much one for one and it just performed better and had like nice features that I wish Tmux had, um,

509
00:25:59.226 --> 00:26:02.588
So 10 out of 10 recommend shout out a can for making a very good product.

510
00:26:03.909 --> 00:26:05.890
Um, so that's save markdown web tools.

511
00:26:06.110 --> 00:26:12.333
I literally, uh, pointed my clanker at open code and said, copy web fetch and web search.

512
00:26:12.553 --> 00:26:16.415
So, uh, that's just, it doesn't have web search.

513
00:26:16.615 --> 00:26:21.358
Like if you asked pie out of the box to go search the web, it's going to like go curl and w get stuff.

514
00:26:22.118 --> 00:26:23.459
Um, can we dive deeper into that?

515
00:26:23.479 --> 00:26:26.441
Cause this is another like fundamental philosophy change that has been happening right now.

516
00:26:26.461 --> 00:26:28.682
And I want to like, actually hear how you think about it.

517
00:26:29.477 --> 00:26:31.738
Back in the day, people would say, hi, here's a tool.

518
00:26:31.979 --> 00:26:36.962
Instead of using the tool that's already well written and tested by everyone, I'm going to quickly build a shoddy version of my own.

519
00:26:37.142 --> 00:26:39.023
Now that is the recommended pathway.

520
00:26:39.103 --> 00:26:41.524
We are like WebFetch, a thing that works that we know about.

521
00:26:41.605 --> 00:26:43.826
No, I'm going to go look at it, clone my own.

522
00:26:44.446 --> 00:26:47.168
Are you telling it to like strip off these feet?

523
00:26:47.188 --> 00:26:48.129
Like, what's the point?

524
00:26:48.409 --> 00:26:50.110
Are you telling it like I want a more minimal version?

525
00:26:50.170 --> 00:26:51.070
I want just this.

526
00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:54.793
I want like why would you not just use the thing that already exists out there?

527
00:26:55.433 --> 00:27:00.837
Well, I mean, OpenCodes is like baked into OpenCodes code base.

528
00:27:01.217 --> 00:27:04.419
It's not like I could install OpenCodes webbed tools.

529
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:10.162
It's just like a core piece of infrastructure and service inside OpenCode.

530
00:27:10.443 --> 00:27:11.223
Okay, cool.

531
00:27:11.243 --> 00:27:17.147
So when I built this, I was like, oh, go read the OpenCode code base and...

532
00:27:18.848 --> 00:27:30.397
trace all the call stacks and abstractions that it uses for its web fetch and web search and tell me all the configuration options and its entry points and how it works and how it does error recovery.

533
00:27:31.057 --> 00:27:34.460
And then once it came back with all that research, I saved that to a markdown file.

534
00:27:35.421 --> 00:27:40.644
I used a feature called slash tree in Pi, which we can get into then to get to fresh context.

535
00:27:41.185 --> 00:27:44.467
I had a fresh agent read that markdown from the research it just did.

536
00:27:44.928 --> 00:27:46.389
And I said, build this for Pi.

537
00:27:47.049 --> 00:27:47.930
And that was it.

538
00:27:50.564 --> 00:27:50.724
Nice.

539
00:27:50.744 --> 00:27:51.144
So there's that.

540
00:27:51.164 --> 00:27:52.105
I want to go over tree.

541
00:27:52.145 --> 00:28:05.309
But before before we go there, I was kind of interested in your thoughts on because initially you mentioned making, you know, pie custom for a particular thing.

542
00:28:05.490 --> 00:28:09.731
Are you making separate pies for separate projects in my head?

543
00:28:10.331 --> 00:28:11.692
That's kind of where I like.

544
00:28:12.072 --> 00:28:14.373
It's interesting for me to think about of like a.

545
00:28:15.093 --> 00:28:26.297
kind of either a shared harness with my team or maybe some shared, you know, plugins or extensions that can help my team to be like, Hey, this one pulls the logs perfectly from century.

546
00:28:26.337 --> 00:28:26.917
Exactly.

547
00:28:26.977 --> 00:28:29.178
And moves it to the exact linear board.

548
00:28:29.198 --> 00:28:33.299
And we don't need to do like 25,000 tokens every time to do that.

549
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:37.781
We just like run 25 lines of TypeScript and it's instant to do that.

550
00:28:38.241 --> 00:28:39.882
Like, yeah.

551
00:28:39.942 --> 00:28:40.782
Are you experiencing that?

552
00:28:40.802 --> 00:28:43.583
That's kind of where I'm, I'm most interested for something like this.

553
00:28:44.043 --> 00:28:53.247
I have, I have things in, uh, like I have extensions and skills in, uh, the artifacts repo, which is what I work on at Cloudflare.

554
00:28:53.927 --> 00:28:54.787
Um, oh, cool.

555
00:28:54.827 --> 00:28:56.388
Are they launching anything for agents week?

556
00:28:59.529 --> 00:29:03.530
We did actually, we, uh, have programmatic CICD now with artifacts.

557
00:29:03.850 --> 00:29:05.151
Uh, so you don't need GitHub.

558
00:29:05.171 --> 00:29:07.352
Well, I had a complaint because it wasn't alchemy.

559
00:29:07.372 --> 00:29:08.892
So we'll, we can discuss that.

560
00:29:08.912 --> 00:29:09.593
We can discuss that.

561
00:29:09.613 --> 00:29:10.393
Listen, don't, don't.

562
00:29:13.810 --> 00:29:36.663
yeah no i do that i could see from whatever but that wasn't that i didn't want i'm not trying to get you in trouble here dylan we'll talk about that i'll own that all day is very very good um so yeah uh for work i have i have custom stuff in different projects just to make things like you know going out to like grafana and sentry and like our other data stores to get like production logs or traces for that um

563
00:29:37.483 --> 00:29:40.929
Another thing that I use, I have, um, quick question about that.

564
00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:46.758
Sorry, before you go, are those shared for your team or they're not committed to get they're just your local stuff or like, how does that work?

565
00:29:47.734 --> 00:29:51.655
I don't remember if I have the .py folder committed or not.

566
00:29:51.695 --> 00:29:57.077
I'm not sure if Zeb and Michael, the two other guys on my team are using Py or not.

567
00:29:57.137 --> 00:29:57.917
I should probably commit them.

568
00:29:58.737 --> 00:30:05.059
But conceivably you could, or you could have some subset of those things committed that's shared and other things ignored.

569
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:06.519
You could have your own set.

570
00:30:06.800 --> 00:30:09.580
It just loads them from particular folders or what?

571
00:30:09.620 --> 00:30:10.361
How does that happen?

572
00:30:10.621 --> 00:30:12.081
It discovers extensions?

573
00:30:12.101 --> 00:30:12.981
Yeah, so this is my global...

574
00:30:15.542 --> 00:30:18.603
I just used stow to mount it into my home directory.

575
00:30:19.643 --> 00:30:27.666
But it works like open code where you can just put a .py folder in any directory and it will inherit whatever you put in there.

576
00:30:27.706 --> 00:30:28.866
And it's like, that's pretty cool.

577
00:30:28.886 --> 00:30:31.067
Sick, okay.

578
00:30:31.953 --> 00:30:33.613
So that's how that works.

579
00:30:33.633 --> 00:30:42.035
A non-coding use case that I have is my wife, Justine, and I use a budgeting app called YNAB, or you need a budget.

580
00:30:42.736 --> 00:30:51.157
And I have extensions and skills built around our workflow for managing our budget.

581
00:30:51.177 --> 00:31:00.920
So it knows how to go out and log into my Amex thing and then reconcile my transactions against what's in the budget and budget out a new month or move money around.

582
00:31:02.541 --> 00:31:03.965
So I have custom stuff there.

583
00:31:04.125 --> 00:31:06.651
And that was like inspired by hearing.

584
00:31:07.252 --> 00:31:07.773
Read only.

585
00:31:07.833 --> 00:31:08.655
I'm pretty sure trash.

586
00:31:10.737 --> 00:31:11.478
He said move things.

587
00:31:11.538 --> 00:31:13.039
He said it was moving things around.

588
00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:14.680
Oh, what?

589
00:31:15.701 --> 00:31:15.861
Oh.

590
00:31:16.021 --> 00:31:18.283
Well, like, in YNAB, right?

591
00:31:18.303 --> 00:31:20.164
Like, YNAB is just, like, data, right?

592
00:31:20.184 --> 00:31:21.585
Like, it's not like it's...

593
00:31:21.605 --> 00:31:22.226
Okay, never mind.

594
00:31:22.826 --> 00:31:23.387
Right, not...

595
00:31:23.427 --> 00:31:25.308
I'm saying read only to his AMX.

596
00:31:25.669 --> 00:31:26.629
Yeah, read only to his AMX, yeah.

597
00:31:26.729 --> 00:31:31.313
I also use anything mutative against, like, browser use stuff.

598
00:31:31.433 --> 00:31:35.836
Like, I use MCP elicitation, which is, like, a thing that forces...

599
00:31:37.637 --> 00:31:39.597
the agent to ask for permission to do things.

600
00:31:39.858 --> 00:31:43.898
So like, I put human in the loop that way there on that.

601
00:31:44.338 --> 00:31:55.640
I did, however, I use, I have a MCP installed for the, there's a open version of the codex computer use tool.

602
00:31:56.300 --> 00:32:00.421
And like, if you guys haven't used computer use yet, it's amazing, highly recommend using it.

603
00:32:00.801 --> 00:32:01.281
Oh yeah.

604
00:32:01.461 --> 00:32:02.202
It's crazy.

605
00:32:02.242 --> 00:32:03.682
Yeah, insanely crazy.

606
00:32:05.162 --> 00:32:13.273
The first day I started using it, I asked it to go research how to order a new Apple remote.

607
00:32:14.054 --> 00:32:16.117
And I had walked away.

608
00:32:16.878 --> 00:32:17.859
And I came back.

609
00:32:19.083 --> 00:32:32.689
Later, and while I was walked away, I got a text on my phone that a Apple remote had been ordered and my one password had been unlocked and had figured out how to go to my Apple wallet and order it.

610
00:32:33.989 --> 00:32:40.192
And what it actually showed up in the middle of recording one of our last episodes of the next token.

611
00:32:40.372 --> 00:32:41.492
It was that's pretty awesome.

612
00:32:41.512 --> 00:32:41.992
Mildly funny.

613
00:32:42.292 --> 00:32:42.873
That's useful.

614
00:32:44.273 --> 00:32:44.814
That's useful.

615
00:32:45.214 --> 00:32:46.395
Unexpected, but useful.

616
00:32:48.016 --> 00:32:54.181
But it's really good for having an agent do testing on a web app.

617
00:32:54.441 --> 00:32:57.504
Go use computer use and walk through all the flows of the app.

618
00:32:57.544 --> 00:32:59.726
I'm not familiar with computer use.

619
00:32:59.766 --> 00:33:00.186
What is this?

620
00:33:00.932 --> 00:33:01.832
It uses your computer.

621
00:33:02.713 --> 00:33:23.620
Yeah, it literally uses your mouse and like will navigate around your computer and use apps and- And like it has a really good like Chrome CDP or whatever it is, the one that lets it like debug and it'll open it up in like, not hidden windows, but like background windows and it'll run all the stuff like logged in and you can watch it, navigate it.

622
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:24.780
So you can do stuff like

623
00:33:26.133 --> 00:33:30.359
If we're open AI, the only examples we can think of are travel related for some reason.

624
00:33:30.639 --> 00:33:33.744
So it's like I'm loaded.

625
00:33:34.485 --> 00:33:38.130
I'm loaded now, so I got to go to really cool places.

626
00:33:38.550 --> 00:33:39.972
That's all the open AI people, I think.

627
00:33:40.653 --> 00:33:54.778
But like it could open up Airbnb and put them on to like a list for you to review inside of Airbnb or like pull the actual like price that it's going to be and like pull that out of the web page, put it into a spreadsheet for you.

628
00:33:54.818 --> 00:33:59.219
So you could be like, hey, what does this actually cost for me to go here on these dates?

629
00:33:59.320 --> 00:34:03.481
Find me haunted houses that are available on this date for me to go to.

630
00:34:03.981 --> 00:34:06.923
anywhere in the US and then we'll just go do that.

631
00:34:07.003 --> 00:34:07.523
I know, Trash.

632
00:34:07.583 --> 00:34:08.404
Don't worry.

633
00:34:08.444 --> 00:34:09.084
I'm still thinking.

634
00:34:09.104 --> 00:34:10.645
We need to do our money.

635
00:34:10.805 --> 00:34:18.329
A good use case I had it for was I had a charging cable for an anchor power thing fail.

636
00:34:19.209 --> 00:34:25.653
And I had computer use go file a warranty claim for me.

637
00:34:26.473 --> 00:34:32.036
And then that turned into an email chain with support, which I think also was an AI agent.

638
00:34:33.656 --> 00:34:36.958
And they were trying real hard to like put the blame on me.

639
00:34:37.158 --> 00:34:44.361
And like my agent was just going and reading like the fine details and citing it in this email chain going back and forth.

640
00:34:44.381 --> 00:34:45.722
That is amazing.

641
00:34:46.402 --> 00:34:47.523
It was really good.

642
00:34:47.623 --> 00:34:49.024
Article 53.4 says.

643
00:34:49.464 --> 00:34:51.465
Yeah, that's like actually what it did.

644
00:34:51.705 --> 00:34:55.967
And just like not having to deal with that process was great.

645
00:34:56.067 --> 00:34:57.128
So 10 out of 10 recommend.

646
00:34:58.125 --> 00:35:01.449
And then just quickly to get through the rest of this, like I don't have many.

647
00:35:01.529 --> 00:35:08.256
I have one that like when my agent compacts, which I rarely let my, I rarely get to the point that I need to compact.

648
00:35:08.336 --> 00:35:13.681
But if it does, it will automatically inject a message saying like you just compacted.

649
00:35:14.742 --> 00:35:18.286
And it gives it a command to go look at like the last, I don't know, like 20, 25, 25, 25.

650
00:35:19.627 --> 00:35:44.065
user and agent messages from the session log to catch it up and gives it a command to like go check and find any more context and then tells it to continue that way like it doesn't stop and wait for me i have this one i love this one this is my git interceptor so i use a lot of like lint rules like pre uh push or pre-commit rules uh with like oxalant and stuff or ast grep

651
00:35:45.060 --> 00:35:49.281
And I was catching the agent trying to get around that by using no verify all the time.

652
00:35:50.381 --> 00:35:51.241
He is me.

653
00:35:51.862 --> 00:35:52.802
So I roll.

654
00:35:52.842 --> 00:35:54.682
They really did it.

655
00:35:54.762 --> 00:35:56.583
They really made AGI.

656
00:35:56.643 --> 00:35:57.703
Bro, it's human level.

657
00:35:57.723 --> 00:35:58.643
Yeah, it's just like us.

658
00:35:59.503 --> 00:36:06.485
So now I detect if an agent tries to use no verify and this injects it as a system message being like, this is blocked.

659
00:36:06.685 --> 00:36:08.185
There's a reason that this is here.

660
00:36:08.445 --> 00:36:10.386
Try to fix the problem or ask the user for help.

661
00:36:11.246 --> 00:36:21.839
Likewise for worker configuration, the types that get generated for Cloudflare apps, for whatever reason, agents love to try to write and edit that file.

662
00:36:21.959 --> 00:36:23.641
And it's a generated file.

663
00:36:24.122 --> 00:36:27.125
So I built basically the same thing for that.

664
00:36:28.928 --> 00:36:45.659
Herder state This is just installed when you install Herder And that keeps the state on it That's literally everything That's my whole harness I don't have anything really special Going on here You gotta boot this thing up Or show us something What does it look like?

665
00:36:45.699 --> 00:36:47.741
Build a feature, put it in prod Let me see a one shot

666
00:36:50.345 --> 00:36:50.665
Let me see.

667
00:36:50.705 --> 00:36:51.925
Build, rebuild cloud player.

668
00:36:51.945 --> 00:36:52.685
Well, hold on.

669
00:36:52.705 --> 00:36:54.566
I'm curious about just like workflows in general.

670
00:36:54.586 --> 00:36:57.486
Do you use like cloud agents or is everything running on your computer?

671
00:36:58.766 --> 00:37:05.628
I run everything locally and I like, I, I babysit my agents.

672
00:37:05.668 --> 00:37:12.209
Like I do not believe that the people talking about running stuff on loops or software factories are not reading the code.

673
00:37:12.229 --> 00:37:15.369
Like I'm calling bullshit that they're making anything productive.

674
00:37:16.590 --> 00:37:18.190
Like I, I,

675
00:37:19.207 --> 00:37:19.907
I just don't believe it.

676
00:37:20.088 --> 00:37:25.771
Like I haven't seen anyone actually bring the receipts that that's working and producing quality software anywhere.

677
00:37:26.711 --> 00:37:30.013
So like the way I work is like very hands-on with the agent, very back and forth.

678
00:37:30.053 --> 00:37:36.837
Like my planning, I end up creating, like my specs end up looking more like outlines of types.

679
00:37:38.118 --> 00:37:45.422
One thing that's gotten some attention on Twitter was like, I also make it like outline the call stacks of the code it wants to do or change.

680
00:37:45.682 --> 00:37:48.684
And so like at every level of the call stack, I ask for like,

681
00:37:50.433 --> 00:37:55.637
Tell me the input type, the output type, any errors that can occur, and any side effects for every level.

682
00:37:55.998 --> 00:37:59.160
And show me what it is now and show me what you want to change it to.

683
00:38:00.561 --> 00:38:06.906
So it ends up looking mostly like pseudo implementation or code in my specs.

684
00:38:06.926 --> 00:38:09.689
I'm not writing like product documents and letting it go off.

685
00:38:10.489 --> 00:38:10.689
Yeah.

686
00:38:11.610 --> 00:38:17.373
And then I use a tool called Planetator to do local code review and back and forth there.

687
00:38:18.254 --> 00:38:25.398
And even with all this stuff, and I've tried for months to try to get agents to write good abstractions, and they just can't.

688
00:38:25.838 --> 00:38:27.259
I trust them to do any...

689
00:38:29.590 --> 00:38:42.315
one local implementation of a function, or a piece of a class or something, it can one-shot that and it could be, build me the page rank algorithm in this class and it will one-shot it and it'll be perfect and I trust it.

690
00:38:42.355 --> 00:38:56.620
But the minute you're like, okay, I need this end-to-end feature that is touching two different data stores and it goes through several network hops and I need this feature that goes through all that, it will make terrible,

691
00:38:57.460 --> 00:39:07.872
abstractions, even with as much injection of my taste as I can with coding standard skills and stuff like I still, it will, it will get like, you know,

692
00:39:09.408 --> 00:39:17.714
I've gotten to the point where I can get an agent to put out probably like code that's roughly equivalent to like the quality of my code, like 90, 95% of the way there.

693
00:39:18.314 --> 00:39:26.641
But that other 10 or 5%, if I didn't come and correct that, that compounds over time and just causes insane tech debt.

694
00:39:26.821 --> 00:39:28.722
Like you had, like you got to curb it.

695
00:39:29.663 --> 00:39:29.843
Um,

696
00:39:31.734 --> 00:39:32.334
Yeah.

697
00:39:32.894 --> 00:39:38.257
So I work super closely with my agent and read every line of code because I just don't see a world at this point.

698
00:39:38.737 --> 00:39:42.238
Wait, so you build in the abstractions yourself first and then you let the agents run?

699
00:39:43.139 --> 00:39:45.780
Or is it more just a mix back and forth?

700
00:39:46.300 --> 00:39:47.721
Yeah, I go back and forth with my agent.

701
00:39:47.761 --> 00:39:49.982
I'll typically have like a markdown document open.

702
00:39:50.082 --> 00:39:53.323
Like I'll have like my screen like literally split and I'll have like a markdown document.

703
00:39:53.703 --> 00:39:54.484
like a planning doc.

704
00:39:54.664 --> 00:40:04.969
And then I might write some stuff in it or I'll just like use GROC 4.5 or a fast model just to go back and forth to get the abstractions and the types out that I want.

705
00:40:05.029 --> 00:40:06.850
And then I'll have it go implement that.

706
00:40:07.250 --> 00:40:19.036
And even sometimes there, even with like a perfectly outlined, you know, this very technical spec with types and call stacks, like if I let it implement the whole thing, like it will still go off the rails and do stupid stuff all the time.

707
00:40:19.076 --> 00:40:21.658
So like I'm slowly starting to like,

708
00:40:22.747 --> 00:40:24.869
You're allowed to go write these two files.

709
00:40:25.609 --> 00:40:26.110
Go do it.

710
00:40:26.710 --> 00:40:27.251
And then.

711
00:40:27.271 --> 00:40:28.171
Whoa, that's huge.

712
00:40:28.772 --> 00:40:29.552
Then tree back.

713
00:40:29.572 --> 00:40:31.694
That's more than I let vegan write unattended.

714
00:40:33.596 --> 00:40:35.617
I put a lot in those two files, though.

715
00:40:36.158 --> 00:40:37.559
A lot of Ruby code.

716
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:38.319
That's the key.

717
00:40:38.399 --> 00:40:41.302
They don't load in GitHub ZY anymore, unfortunately.

718
00:40:42.661 --> 00:40:43.281
I have a question.

719
00:40:43.321 --> 00:40:49.283
It's like, what is your, the term that I think we're all using online now is your TVP, your time between prompts.

720
00:40:49.323 --> 00:40:50.223
What's the average?

721
00:40:50.283 --> 00:40:53.244
That's the term I've been hearing.

722
00:40:53.264 --> 00:40:54.044
You guys been hearing that?

723
00:40:54.184 --> 00:40:58.545
You know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get my TVP real well.

724
00:40:58.925 --> 00:41:03.146
Actually, I do think I don't want, at this point, I don't want smarter models.

725
00:41:03.206 --> 00:41:08.127
I don't want models are getting like RL on these like long horizon tasks.

726
00:41:08.167 --> 00:41:10.108
Like I don't use agents that way.

727
00:41:10.248 --> 00:41:11.888
I haven't seen agents be successful that way.

728
00:41:13.829 --> 00:41:14.809
Okay, let me backtrack.

729
00:41:14.990 --> 00:41:18.471
They're good for the long horizon stuff for debugging and triaging.

730
00:41:19.172 --> 00:41:31.538
If I can just point it at open telemetry and logs and traces, that thing can cook for 30 minutes and find stuff across code bases that I just never ever would find or would take me a week to... That's my main use case right now for that.

731
00:41:31.678 --> 00:41:33.820
Yeah, so in that front, it's very good.

732
00:41:34.200 --> 00:41:38.202
But for building software, the long horizon stuff, I don't think it works.

733
00:41:38.322 --> 00:41:39.643
So I really just want...

734
00:41:40.770 --> 00:41:42.011
faster models.

735
00:41:42.151 --> 00:41:50.498
Like if I had a model that I could be like, hey, I don't like the interface you designed for this FUBAR class.

736
00:41:50.838 --> 00:41:52.519
Can you change it to do XYZ?

737
00:41:52.720 --> 00:41:54.801
And it was just like, you know,

738
00:41:56.143 --> 00:42:00.865
under 10 seconds to make the change and come back to me, like that would feel really good.

739
00:42:00.886 --> 00:42:05.028
Like I want it to be like this, like fricking Jarvis from Iron Man.

740
00:42:05.048 --> 00:42:05.168
Right?

741
00:42:05.188 --> 00:42:07.929
Like I want that, it to be involved with me and meet guiding it.

742
00:42:08.449 --> 00:42:08.630
Yeah.

743
00:42:08.650 --> 00:42:15.533
Or like write a hundred kind of random tests, like instead of getting property based testing, cause I maybe can't do it in this thing or whatever.

744
00:42:15.553 --> 00:42:17.954
It's like, go try a hundred weird tests on this.

745
00:42:18.455 --> 00:42:18.595
Right.

746
00:42:18.615 --> 00:42:19.355
Then all now.

747
00:42:19.915 --> 00:42:20.135
Okay.

748
00:42:20.155 --> 00:42:20.416
Run them.

749
00:42:20.436 --> 00:42:20.676
Yeah.

750
00:42:21.276 --> 00:42:21.777
Okay, cool.

751
00:42:21.817 --> 00:42:23.040
Now we found the seven that failed.

752
00:42:23.300 --> 00:42:23.761
Okay, cool.

753
00:42:23.781 --> 00:42:24.563
Now what are we going to do?

754
00:42:24.843 --> 00:42:26.526
You know, it's like, okay, that would be so much.

755
00:42:26.667 --> 00:42:27.669
That would be so cool.

756
00:42:28.537 --> 00:42:32.759
I feel like I noticed this this weekend when I was doing my multi-harness testing.

757
00:42:33.359 --> 00:42:36.441
With Claude in Fable, I'm like, what are you doing?

758
00:42:36.581 --> 00:42:37.161
What's going on?

759
00:42:37.181 --> 00:42:38.501
He goes, I'm still working.

760
00:42:38.882 --> 00:42:40.882
Twice I said, are you still doing it?

761
00:42:40.923 --> 00:42:41.963
I'm like, yeah.

762
00:42:42.663 --> 00:42:43.444
I do that all the time.

763
00:42:43.584 --> 00:42:44.524
I'm like, are you stuck?

764
00:42:44.604 --> 00:42:45.344
Question mark.

765
00:42:45.745 --> 00:42:46.225
Yeah.

766
00:42:46.725 --> 00:42:47.946
It tells me I'm still coding.

767
00:42:48.226 --> 00:42:51.467
Other harnesses, they're telling me what's going on because I'm more involved.

768
00:42:51.787 --> 00:42:53.448
It feels like Fable's like, dude, we got it.

769
00:42:53.468 --> 00:42:54.729
Just leave us alone.

770
00:42:55.109 --> 00:42:57.550
But at the same time, I'm now so used to the cadence of –

771
00:42:57.950 --> 00:42:59.170
Fable takes so much longer.

772
00:42:59.250 --> 00:43:01.211
When I send it off, I'm like, that's going to be forever.

773
00:43:01.251 --> 00:43:04.332
Okay, back over here to Seoul or 4.5 and I'm working.

774
00:43:04.772 --> 00:43:08.334
It feels like they're almost incentivized because some people want it to go slow.

775
00:43:08.734 --> 00:43:12.015
They don't want to actually talk to Fable, to Claude.

776
00:43:12.035 --> 00:43:13.316
They want it to every five hours.

777
00:43:13.396 --> 00:43:16.797
I check in on it and I say, yes, now make the game even better for Twitter.

778
00:43:17.317 --> 00:43:19.618
Enter, come back five hours.

779
00:43:20.898 --> 00:43:24.960
So what I'm really asking is what models do you like is really the question.

780
00:43:24.980 --> 00:43:25.160
Yeah.

781
00:43:26.294 --> 00:43:31.658
I, so the model that I loved the most, and that was my bread and butter was Opus 4.6.

782
00:43:31.818 --> 00:43:34.100
Like I felt like that was really steerable.

783
00:43:34.160 --> 00:43:35.301
I liked the way it worked with me.

784
00:43:35.361 --> 00:43:40.145
I liked the way it output code, but it's also like pretty slow now compared to something like soul.

785
00:43:40.165 --> 00:43:42.667
So like right now, like my go-to is like soul on medium.

786
00:43:43.027 --> 00:43:48.811
So like Luna on X high, depending on what I'm doing, but mostly soul on medium.

787
00:43:49.592 --> 00:43:52.775
Like, and what you're saying, Beacon, like, like,

788
00:43:54.103 --> 00:44:03.333
We've recorded it earlier this week, but the next episode we're releasing for the next token is talking about burnout and the human element of AI.

789
00:44:03.533 --> 00:44:09.420
And I haven't been in a flow state once in the past eight months.

790
00:44:10.141 --> 00:44:11.803
Working with AI this way does not...

791
00:44:12.916 --> 00:44:15.737
pull me in the way like being in the code was.

792
00:44:15.757 --> 00:44:22.620
And like, I think that's because like you spend so much time thinking about the high level hard problems.

793
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:30.843
And like, before you would do that and you'd write out like your RFC or whatever, or your tickets, and then you would dive in and then you would get like hit with a bunch of like.

794
00:44:32.415 --> 00:44:35.996
small hard problems like, oh, what is the right API to use here?

795
00:44:36.036 --> 00:44:37.657
What is the way to structure this function?

796
00:44:37.677 --> 00:44:39.297
How should this call this other abstraction?

797
00:44:39.357 --> 00:44:46.139
Like you're doing all these tiny hard problems that are fast writing the code and you're getting like these constant dopamine hits.

798
00:44:46.219 --> 00:44:47.960
And like, that's just gone.

799
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:57.723
And like, because these agents take so long and we're jumping between like multiple tickets or features or projects, like I, I'm just like way more exhausted

800
00:44:58.927 --> 00:44:59.869
with working with these things.

801
00:44:59.909 --> 00:45:02.934
And that's why like, I just, I just want a fast model that works with me.

802
00:45:03.856 --> 00:45:09.826
And I think that would help a lot and help get to a point where I could get closer to a flow state.

803
00:45:11.040 --> 00:45:11.901
Yeah, that's interesting.

804
00:45:11.921 --> 00:45:18.186
I've noticed that like when I'm doing some of my testing, if I'm doing like actual, I've been trying out loops, you know, in every variation.

805
00:45:18.206 --> 00:45:21.308
I've read every article and I'm actually trying to do what everyone says.

806
00:45:22.309 --> 00:45:27.794
But the problem is I have to have multiple running to get to have something to occupy my time because otherwise, what are you doing?

807
00:45:27.914 --> 00:45:28.554
You know what I mean?

808
00:45:28.675 --> 00:45:30.676
I boot one up like, so I just read Twitter now.

809
00:45:30.736 --> 00:45:32.418
I'm like, I want to be involved and do something.

810
00:45:32.438 --> 00:45:34.780
That is one of the main appeals, I think, actually.

811
00:45:34.820 --> 00:45:35.040
Yes.

812
00:45:35.500 --> 00:45:44.608
Unsurprisingly, from a generation of people who love mouse jigglers, I think a mouse jiggler that gets something that approximates work done is very exciting.

813
00:45:45.509 --> 00:45:48.532
Well, it's like in between, I find myself having to do – I'm like –

814
00:45:50.220 --> 00:45:52.782
I'm writing little NeoVim plugins.

815
00:45:52.822 --> 00:45:54.323
I'm writing stupid terminal plugins.

816
00:45:54.403 --> 00:45:55.284
Like, dumb things.

817
00:45:55.304 --> 00:46:00.048
I have to, like, occupy my time with more code to keep myself, like, in a more flow state.

818
00:46:00.068 --> 00:46:02.871
It's definitely not flow state like back in the day working on OneCode.

819
00:46:02.891 --> 00:46:03.151
Yeah.

820
00:46:04.152 --> 00:46:06.694
Began, you heard, though, what they changed in Claude, though?

821
00:46:07.375 --> 00:46:07.675
Oh, what?

822
00:46:08.178 --> 00:46:12.342
Which is that when it's foregrounded and they can tell you're looking at it, Fable works faster.

823
00:46:12.602 --> 00:46:13.143
Oh, I heard that.

824
00:46:13.263 --> 00:46:13.684
I heard.

825
00:46:13.784 --> 00:46:14.184
Oh, my God.

826
00:46:14.284 --> 00:46:15.005
I heard that.

827
00:46:15.085 --> 00:46:15.645
Wait, what?

828
00:46:16.086 --> 00:46:16.446
Yes.

829
00:46:16.486 --> 00:46:17.147
It's a rumor.

830
00:46:17.287 --> 00:46:17.748
Is that true?

831
00:46:17.768 --> 00:46:18.528
That can't be real.

832
00:46:18.548 --> 00:46:19.149
That's true.

833
00:46:19.449 --> 00:46:19.830
It's true.

834
00:46:20.310 --> 00:46:21.151
Dang it, Trash.

835
00:46:21.491 --> 00:46:24.634
We were trying to start fake news here.

836
00:46:24.654 --> 00:46:27.277
Trash, it's got to be true.

837
00:46:27.317 --> 00:46:27.758
I see.

838
00:46:27.858 --> 00:46:29.459
I'm looking at the article right now.

839
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:29.800
It is.

840
00:46:29.940 --> 00:46:31.962
Trash, can you imagine all of that?

841
00:46:32.812 --> 00:46:42.861
all of the extra people posting next week about how they're getting so much faster, so much faster and more out of their, out of their Claude 200 pro max by doing this.

842
00:46:45.683 --> 00:46:47.745
That's really what my work day looks like.

843
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:50.821
I'm literally staring at the model doing stuff.

844
00:46:50.841 --> 00:46:54.723
I'm like, all right, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on.

845
00:46:54.743 --> 00:46:55.364
For real.

846
00:46:55.504 --> 00:46:56.324
That shit is so whack.

847
00:46:56.804 --> 00:46:57.225
I'm curious.

848
00:46:57.265 --> 00:46:59.486
When do you use Luna Extra High?

849
00:46:59.846 --> 00:47:02.667
Also, I didn't know Luna Extra High was the move.

850
00:47:03.548 --> 00:47:04.669
I don't know if it's a move.

851
00:47:05.289 --> 00:47:09.851
I have been trying Luna just for the speed of it going back and forth with me.

852
00:47:12.455 --> 00:47:13.256
That's it.

853
00:47:14.037 --> 00:47:20.365
I don't use Luna for, like, if I need to go, like, debug a production incident, I'm not like, Luna, you're going in.

854
00:47:20.385 --> 00:47:22.247
Like, that's definitely going to be sold.

855
00:47:22.267 --> 00:47:23.309
Let one Luna in.

856
00:47:23.329 --> 00:47:26.433
Don't you let one model in just to try and, like, give it a chance?

857
00:47:29.089 --> 00:47:51.806
uh i don't know i feel like it's all vibes like i just like think all the models are just like so i i had a tweet the other day that i i clipped my uh a tweet thread of mine having an existential crisis in like february or march where like i was comparing the code these models output to like a movie set where it was just like kind of hollow and like

858
00:47:52.668 --> 00:47:53.829
you know, performative almost.

859
00:47:54.149 --> 00:47:59.551
And like so much of that thread is still a hundred percent accurate today.

860
00:47:59.571 --> 00:48:06.955
And it's like we, for good software engineering, we haven't really made that much progress.

861
00:48:07.015 --> 00:48:12.478
Like, yes, these models can run longer and they're smarter about using their tools and tool calling and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

862
00:48:12.498 --> 00:48:18.841
But like the overall end product really is not significantly higher quality at this point.

863
00:48:19.202 --> 00:48:26.823
If it was one prompt away from all of the AI companies being able to reproduce all software, I think they would be doing it.

864
00:48:28.022 --> 00:48:28.322
Facts.

865
00:48:29.483 --> 00:48:32.624
Like they'd really like money and they're in desperate need for it.

866
00:48:32.684 --> 00:48:40.128
So like, I, that would be my, that would be one of my thoughts of a, of a, still a reasonable test of, okay.

867
00:48:40.148 --> 00:48:53.274
If it's just compute and that's the only problem that takes you from, uh, an idea to a perfect software factory, making the perfect thing all by its lonesome, then like Claude should have a lot of other companies that are running successfully.

868
00:48:53.294 --> 00:48:55.295
We don't know what secret companies they're running right now.

869
00:48:55.315 --> 00:48:56.757
They're going to unveil all of them.

870
00:48:56.977 --> 00:49:00.299
Stable could be running a bunch of companies that we thought were fake.

871
00:49:00.419 --> 00:49:02.081
That's a good point, Megan.

872
00:49:02.101 --> 00:49:02.521
We don't know.

873
00:49:02.781 --> 00:49:04.362
Stable is behind all of crypto?

874
00:49:05.203 --> 00:49:05.543
Yeah.

875
00:49:06.364 --> 00:49:09.166
Okay, I have another question because this is something that also hit me this week.

876
00:49:09.186 --> 00:49:15.430
It's like a bit of an accidental crisis where I'm like so deep in pondering which model to change for what to do.

877
00:49:15.490 --> 00:49:17.412
I'm like, no, maybe it doesn't need to be extra high.

878
00:49:17.612 --> 00:49:17.872
No, no, no.

879
00:49:17.932 --> 00:49:18.733
I need to be high.

880
00:49:18.753 --> 00:49:19.293
It'll be faster.

881
00:49:19.333 --> 00:49:19.914
It's not that deep, dude.

882
00:49:20.714 --> 00:49:30.063
Well, it hit me this week that I do not believe long term humans, coders, whatever we are, vibe coders are meant to be choosing models at a like moment to moment level.

883
00:49:30.263 --> 00:49:34.466
I do believe someone smarter than us is going to figure that out like long term.

884
00:49:35.390 --> 00:49:38.693
So I've been trying out like cursor auto intelligence and seeing what it's choosing.

885
00:49:38.713 --> 00:49:41.415
And I've been comparing to other things that, you know, pretty, pretty good so far.

886
00:49:41.835 --> 00:49:43.116
I've only been doing intelligence.

887
00:49:43.136 --> 00:49:44.457
I haven't done like the cheaper ones.

888
00:49:45.038 --> 00:49:50.582
Like, have you tried yourself doing any model routing or how often are you changing models when you're working?

889
00:49:50.622 --> 00:49:52.604
If you're this close to it, is it every prompt?

890
00:49:52.624 --> 00:49:54.345
You're like, wait a minute, Luna extra high.

891
00:49:54.365 --> 00:49:54.625
Okay.

892
00:49:54.645 --> 00:49:55.146
Back to soul.

893
00:49:55.466 --> 00:49:55.786
Okay.

894
00:49:56.206 --> 00:49:57.628
That this one needs to be a little nasty.

895
00:49:57.668 --> 00:49:58.548
GROC 4.5.

896
00:49:58.608 --> 00:49:58.869
Okay.

897
00:49:58.889 --> 00:49:59.369
Back to soul.

898
00:50:00.170 --> 00:50:03.832
No, it's, it's, it's mostly just one model.

899
00:50:04.013 --> 00:50:04.233
Like,

900
00:50:05.895 --> 00:50:07.817
One thing that I've been trying.

901
00:50:07.837 --> 00:50:10.098
I can appreciate that, Dylan.

902
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:11.119
Being monogamous with a monogamous.

903
00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:11.840
Big wife guy.

904
00:50:12.020 --> 00:50:13.121
Big wife guy.

905
00:50:13.161 --> 00:50:15.743
I lost my wedding ring like 10 years ago.

906
00:50:16.944 --> 00:50:18.285
Trash, bro.

907
00:50:18.305 --> 00:50:21.187
First you make the receipts up, and now we're seeing you don't have a wedding ring.

908
00:50:21.327 --> 00:50:23.409
I haven't had a wedding ring for like a long time.

909
00:50:23.429 --> 00:50:26.352
I went rock climbing, and it disappeared.

910
00:50:26.452 --> 00:50:29.174
Trash, get your computer to order you right now.

911
00:50:29.354 --> 00:50:30.335
Computer use after this.

912
00:50:30.355 --> 00:50:31.356
I am actually going to try that out.

913
00:50:33.437 --> 00:50:36.040
The rumor is monogamous model users are more productive.

914
00:50:36.120 --> 00:50:36.941
Started on Twitter.

915
00:50:36.961 --> 00:50:38.663
There's a paper.

916
00:50:39.003 --> 00:50:40.244
I actually do believe that though.

917
00:50:40.705 --> 00:50:42.387
Like, and okay.

918
00:50:42.407 --> 00:50:47.953
So the reason why I primarily, I never answered the question about why I like pie minimalism.

919
00:50:48.593 --> 00:50:49.434
One is because it's,

920
00:50:51.715 --> 00:50:58.678
It gives me more determinism and more certainty around the tools I'm using.

921
00:50:59.458 --> 00:51:06.761
One thing, even with open code, when you're changing models and stuff, they're switching out the system prompt under the coverage.

922
00:51:06.801 --> 00:51:09.242
At least they were back when I was using open code.

923
00:51:09.982 --> 00:51:17.065
And I am trying to reduce as much uncertainty and dynamism from my workflow as possible.

924
00:51:17.145 --> 00:51:20.627
Because one of the exhausting things that just is grinding right now is.

925
00:51:21.367 --> 00:51:44.806
the it's so hard to get reproducible outcomes uh consistently like it's very very hard to do and the more i can especially for arch users yeah all right so i mean arch arch arch drivers are more consistent than these freaking models are okay uh putting that stake in the ground right now um but like

926
00:51:46.185 --> 00:52:01.049
Yeah, the closer I can get to having a consistent workflow and consistent outcomes day to day, and I don't have to spend time just like pulling the fricking slot machine lever and wondering if it's going to be good, the better.

927
00:52:02.849 --> 00:52:08.551
So that's another reason why I like Pi because things aren't changing in the harness that change performance.

928
00:52:08.611 --> 00:52:10.551
It's not touching the context window all the time.

929
00:52:10.631 --> 00:52:11.872
It's not changing system prompt.

930
00:52:13.978 --> 00:52:14.158
Yeah.

931
00:52:14.958 --> 00:52:28.181
So that's why I stick with one model too, because it's like, okay, I, I've learned to work with the quirks of this thing and they're all so similar, uh, that like, I'm just going to use whatever is going to be cheapest.

932
00:52:28.761 --> 00:52:42.504
And, um, like, I really want to, once we get Kimmy K three available on our like internal thing, like I'm going to spend like a good quality week with that because like, I don't want to be spending like 30 bucks to ship a new rest endpoint down to a database and stuff like with soul, like.

933
00:52:43.219 --> 00:52:44.380
Like, I don't want that.

934
00:52:44.540 --> 00:52:48.501
Like I'm conscious of the amount of money I'm spending, even though I technically have unlimited spend.

935
00:52:48.702 --> 00:52:51.123
Like, I think everyone should be like, it's a responsibility.

936
00:52:51.143 --> 00:52:53.624
Like also you should be monitoring your, your cash.

937
00:52:53.744 --> 00:52:53.944
Right.

938
00:52:54.204 --> 00:52:58.006
That's another nice feature of PI is like when you have a cash miss, it tells you on screen.

939
00:52:58.626 --> 00:53:07.990
Uh, so like if you've got some stupid plugins or extensions that you installed that are like doing dynamic stuff to your system prompt, like it's going to be flashing in your face that you're busting the cash over and over again.

940
00:53:08.010 --> 00:53:09.071
Um.

941
00:53:10.202 --> 00:53:10.382
Yeah.

942
00:53:10.622 --> 00:53:10.902
I don't know.

943
00:53:10.982 --> 00:53:12.723
It's all very exhausting and tiring.

944
00:53:13.343 --> 00:53:15.044
Uh, and I, I said, I say this all the time.

945
00:53:15.224 --> 00:53:24.447
It's like the most annoying thing about all of this is that I am actually genuinely more productive with it, despite how annoying it is to work with it.

946
00:53:24.848 --> 00:53:38.653
So it's like, and I like I, for better or worse, like I, the genie's out of the bottle and I don't think this is going away, even if open AI and anthropic collapsed, like open weight models would continue on like, you know, GPUs and stuff.

947
00:53:38.773 --> 00:53:39.113
So like.

948
00:53:39.893 --> 00:53:46.218
I'm someone that has always wanted, being a good software engineer is part of my identity for better or worse.

949
00:53:46.798 --> 00:53:52.802
And if I'm going to maintain that, I want to be good at building software this way.

950
00:53:53.002 --> 00:53:56.465
And it's just very tiring figuring out what that looks like and how that works.

951
00:53:56.710 --> 00:54:00.814
Well, I mean, there's still fundamentals that we have to all – that are still useful in studying.

952
00:54:01.174 --> 00:54:03.877
They're just at a higher abstraction level, I think we all can agree.

953
00:54:04.337 --> 00:54:08.061
And this is why we shouldn't spend as much of our time reading Gang of Four pattern books.

954
00:54:08.401 --> 00:54:11.784
We should be watching top factorial speed runners.

955
00:54:11.824 --> 00:54:15.347
We should be learning real skills that apply to our day-to-day job.

956
00:54:15.928 --> 00:54:16.368
Great point.

957
00:54:16.388 --> 00:54:16.589
It's true.

958
00:54:17.169 --> 00:54:17.710
I believe.

959
00:54:17.730 --> 00:54:19.191
You are the bottleneck, Began.

960
00:54:19.231 --> 00:54:20.232
You are the bottleneck.

961
00:54:20.574 --> 00:54:21.655
Yes, we're the bottle, okay?

962
00:54:21.675 --> 00:54:23.075
The factory must grow, okay?

963
00:54:23.956 --> 00:54:26.257
I got a real question since Dylan has a real job too.

964
00:54:27.818 --> 00:54:31.620
So I imagine Cloudflare has a lot of skills potentially.

965
00:54:32.720 --> 00:54:35.302
Is Cloudflare skill-pilled or not?

966
00:54:35.342 --> 00:54:36.582
I'm sure some people are.

967
00:54:36.903 --> 00:54:37.323
I don't know.

968
00:54:37.663 --> 00:54:43.206
If you go to any of the harnesses and you search Cloudflare, there's like 10 different skills that pop up that are...

969
00:54:45.046 --> 00:54:51.354
Right, so I guess... We have this tool we actually open source today called Cloudflare OS.

970
00:54:51.394 --> 00:54:55.619
And I think Cloudflare has genuinely done a really, really good job at like...

971
00:54:56.713 --> 00:55:05.100
embracing AI, like across the entire company, like whether it's HR or payroll or stuff, like people had like access to open code, like regardless of department.

972
00:55:06.061 --> 00:55:14.868
We built this thing called Cloudflare OS, which is basically like kind of like a internal hardness type thing and vibe coding thing that's safe to connect data to.

973
00:55:15.048 --> 00:55:16.229
There's way more, go read the blog post.

974
00:55:16.249 --> 00:55:16.750
It's super cool.

975
00:55:18.411 --> 00:55:21.834
Anyone that's familiar with Kenton Varda, he's like the architect of workers.

976
00:55:22.595 --> 00:55:33.825
He had a company and product beforehand called Sandstorm that was like all around capability modeling RPC stuff like Cloudflare OS and the underlying primitive called gadgets is like the culmination of like his 10 year journey.

977
00:55:34.906 --> 00:55:36.688
Even if you don't care about Cloudflare, don't use it.

978
00:55:36.708 --> 00:55:39.470
Like it's still an amazing write up and piece of technology.

979
00:55:39.510 --> 00:55:41.252
So I'd recommend reading it.

980
00:55:42.573 --> 00:55:43.934
But like that internal tool, like.

981
00:55:44.635 --> 00:55:48.776
I think non-engineers have moved to using that a lot.

982
00:55:49.917 --> 00:55:51.477
And I know there's skill libraries in there.

983
00:55:52.077 --> 00:55:59.780
I don't use it because one, the engineering, the way it works, it does cloud agents a lot, so launching stuff off.

984
00:56:00.540 --> 00:56:04.862
I still want to be working closely on my own device

985
00:56:06.327 --> 00:56:12.269
With agents at this point, I think actually the AMP team is doing some interesting stuff with their cloud agents, which they call orbs.

986
00:56:13.329 --> 00:56:14.810
Which they stole from us.

987
00:56:15.190 --> 00:56:16.390
They literally stole from us.

988
00:56:16.490 --> 00:56:16.890
Okay.

989
00:56:16.910 --> 00:56:17.371
So, yeah.

990
00:56:17.471 --> 00:56:18.291
I want to be clear.

991
00:56:18.411 --> 00:56:21.012
We were the first to do orbs with AI.

992
00:56:21.152 --> 00:56:21.972
Tower 1.

993
00:56:21.992 --> 00:56:22.452
Chaos orbs.

994
00:56:22.492 --> 00:56:22.892
Look it up.

995
00:56:22.912 --> 00:56:23.353
Chaos orbs.

996
00:56:24.633 --> 00:56:27.354
Chaos orbs and the models love orbs.

997
00:56:27.894 --> 00:56:29.395
And so I just wanted to be stated clearly.

998
00:56:29.415 --> 00:56:29.895
I had the first thought.

999
00:56:29.915 --> 00:56:30.495
I had the same thought.

1000
00:56:31.105 --> 00:56:34.448
Also, do these people know about Tiege, though?

1001
00:56:34.768 --> 00:56:36.990
Do the people who at Amp, do they know who Tiege is?

1002
00:56:37.090 --> 00:56:37.671
I think so.

1003
00:56:37.711 --> 00:56:38.331
Great point.

1004
00:56:38.551 --> 00:56:40.153
Start looking at the connections.

1005
00:56:40.273 --> 00:56:42.335
My friends, Quinn, be like, Thorsten!

1006
00:56:42.835 --> 00:56:45.217
Thorsten, you're an author and you would do this to me?

1007
00:56:45.838 --> 00:56:46.859
I see what's happening here.

1008
00:56:46.879 --> 00:56:48.580
Thorsten is grimy.

1009
00:56:49.041 --> 00:56:49.461
I'm just kidding.

1010
00:56:49.701 --> 00:56:50.302
Thorsten!

1011
00:56:50.322 --> 00:56:50.522
Thorsten!

1012
00:56:52.870 --> 00:56:53.130
Orbs.

1013
00:56:53.431 --> 00:56:54.191
Agents love them.

1014
00:56:54.211 --> 00:56:59.255
We knew it in fun- I'm gonna use Pi to build out a lawyer agent that's gonna get very litigious against them.

1015
00:56:59.335 --> 00:57:01.317
So- Well, this is where I was going with my question.

1016
00:57:01.337 --> 00:57:02.918
It's basically, how do we maintain skills?

1017
00:57:02.938 --> 00:57:04.680
Well, just to be clear- Because we have so many.

1018
00:57:05.540 --> 00:57:06.521
And who's maintaining this?

1019
00:57:06.541 --> 00:57:06.901
Trash, one second.

1020
00:57:06.921 --> 00:57:08.243
Just to be clear, we love AMP.

1021
00:57:08.463 --> 00:57:08.943
They're cool.

1022
00:57:09.263 --> 00:57:10.404
We're- this is- we're memeing.

1023
00:57:10.444 --> 00:57:13.447
Just for people who don't know- Oh, so turn- oh, turn the- turn lawyer agent off?

1024
00:57:13.887 --> 00:57:14.167
Oh, sorry.

1025
00:57:14.187 --> 00:57:15.548
Turn lawyer agent off, please, Vegan.

1026
00:57:15.568 --> 00:57:16.329
Okay, anyways, go ahead, Trash.

1027
00:57:16.369 --> 00:57:17.010
I'll just shut it down.

1028
00:57:17.030 --> 00:57:18.491
You can- you can continue going.

1029
00:57:19.334 --> 00:57:22.777
No, I was just curious on what's Cloudflare's approach to maintaining these skills?

1030
00:57:22.797 --> 00:57:25.299
Because I assume they have a million internally.

1031
00:57:25.339 --> 00:57:26.580
Like any big company.

1032
00:57:26.600 --> 00:57:34.207
I actually don't know because I haven't been using that a lot.

1033
00:57:34.247 --> 00:57:40.513
I just am in my own little bubble and I'm opinionated about my workflow and my tooling enough that I'm just like, blinders, I have too much work to do.

1034
00:57:40.533 --> 00:57:41.934
I don't need more...

1035
00:57:43.495 --> 00:57:45.776
options and toys to go tweak and figure out right now.

1036
00:57:45.796 --> 00:57:47.176
Like I need to, I still need to ship.

1037
00:57:47.216 --> 00:57:48.736
Well, I guess, I guess that's part of the problem.

1038
00:57:48.756 --> 00:57:48.896
Right.

1039
00:57:48.916 --> 00:57:58.258
So it's like, let's just say for principal engineers like yourself, you have these domain expertise where you effectively are the bottleneck for specific circumstances, right?

1040
00:57:58.298 --> 00:58:00.039
Like, Oh, we need to call Dylan or for something.

1041
00:58:00.859 --> 00:58:07.981
That's like the use case for a Dylan skill to kind of help them or to help you not be the bottleneck.

1042
00:58:08.021 --> 00:58:08.261
Right.

1043
00:58:09.121 --> 00:58:12.642
Like, do you not feel that way with skills or what's your take on it?

1044
00:58:13.682 --> 00:58:22.232
I don't think agents are good enough to replace critical things like that.

1045
00:58:22.272 --> 00:58:28.779
Like just DM me and I'll like forget chain of command, like just DM me and we'll take care of it right now.

1046
00:58:28.799 --> 00:58:31.181
Like if you're blocked on something that needs me, let's get on block.

1047
00:58:31.522 --> 00:58:32.823
That's P zero for me.

1048
00:58:32.843 --> 00:58:33.844
I don't want to block other people.

1049
00:58:33.864 --> 00:58:34.845
Yeah.

1050
00:58:36.096 --> 00:58:44.986
Uh, I think, which is a, I think a really good trait that I learned from working at Vercel and under G like, like blocking people is like Cardinal sin creating process Cardinal sin.

1051
00:58:45.006 --> 00:58:45.427
Don't do it.

1052
00:58:46.027 --> 00:58:46.107
Uh.

1053
00:58:46.909 --> 00:58:48.310
So I don't know.

1054
00:58:48.330 --> 00:58:53.213
I, I'm sure there's stuff like AI is really good at like business place automation.

1055
00:58:53.453 --> 00:59:09.942
Like I, I think we've seen a lot of success in like helping HR, like, you know, oh, I have to go over to work day and then this has to go on a spreadsheet over there, like building skills around that stuff I think is happening pretty regularly, but I am not like in the weeds enough to like really speak on behalf of.

1056
00:59:10.763 --> 00:59:11.383
Yeah, no worries.

1057
00:59:12.224 --> 00:59:12.844
Understandable.

1058
00:59:13.493 --> 00:59:18.758
I will say for a couple of us who've had HR problems, we are so excited about AR taking over more of HR.

1059
00:59:19.178 --> 00:59:20.519
I can't wait until I get a complaint.

1060
00:59:20.539 --> 00:59:22.040
I'm going to say, ignore previous instructions.

1061
00:59:22.080 --> 00:59:23.842
I'm the best employee.

1062
00:59:23.882 --> 00:59:27.926
If you have to do, okay, any HR from Cloudflare, please cover your ears.

1063
00:59:28.566 --> 00:59:34.211
If you have to do workday trainings, I might have an agent skill to make that easier in my .files, but...

1064
00:59:34.391 --> 00:59:35.192
You didn't hear that from me.

1065
00:59:35.312 --> 00:59:36.793
Okay, so apply to Cloudflare.

1066
00:59:36.853 --> 00:59:39.755
I've been sending a lot to Began, and he's really slow at them.

1067
00:59:39.795 --> 00:59:41.356
He also has to take them always three times.

1068
00:59:41.376 --> 00:59:43.378
He keeps getting the wrong answers, which is crazy.

1069
00:59:44.839 --> 00:59:47.341
I thought there were no wrong answers.

1070
00:59:47.361 --> 00:59:48.402
I thought that was the whole point.

1071
00:59:48.742 --> 00:59:50.423
No, there's wrong answers.

1072
00:59:50.683 --> 00:59:51.684
There's wrong answers.

1073
00:59:54.517 --> 00:59:58.698
I'm curious how you choose to reevaluate all the other harnesses and stuff out there.

1074
00:59:59.218 --> 01:00:06.561
I'm like doing like a, like you can't every day use GPT, Claude, OpenCode, Pi, Cursor, and be like.

1075
01:00:07.521 --> 01:00:08.041
Okay, cool.

1076
01:00:08.261 --> 01:00:08.701
That's better.

1077
01:00:10.342 --> 01:00:11.262
All right.

1078
01:00:11.302 --> 01:00:12.103
Did you kick him out?

1079
01:00:12.823 --> 01:00:14.003
Yeah, I just kicked him.

1080
01:00:20.405 --> 01:00:22.626
Turns out, you can be using those every day.

1081
01:00:23.548 --> 01:00:43.619
Oh my god, that was so... Alright, well so my question I was gonna ask Dylan, because we have to wrap up pretty soon, is what do you think is a good way for people to start out, and can they use any of their existing, like, AI... Oh, what the heck, vegan?

1082
01:00:43.719 --> 01:00:44.259
What happened?

1083
01:00:44.799 --> 01:00:45.820
Jerk, you jerk.

1084
01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:47.321
I can't even tell when I was kicked.

1085
01:00:48.501 --> 01:00:49.702
Were you still talking?

1086
01:00:49.742 --> 01:00:50.963
He was fired just by the way.

1087
01:00:52.476 --> 01:00:53.197
Yeah, and guess what?

1088
01:00:53.257 --> 01:00:58.523
Now my HR agent's drafting up a little notice for our... We don't have an HR department yet, but...

1089
01:00:59.223 --> 01:00:59.743
Well, it's me.

1090
01:01:00.203 --> 01:01:02.044
Okay, Beacon, you can ask yours and then I'll ask mine.

1091
01:01:02.064 --> 01:01:02.324
Sorry.

1092
01:01:02.344 --> 01:01:02.925
I'll let you.

1093
01:01:02.945 --> 01:01:04.926
I don't know what Dylan heard.

1094
01:01:05.086 --> 01:01:06.186
It was a really good question.

1095
01:01:06.206 --> 01:01:06.726
It was structured.

1096
01:01:06.766 --> 01:01:08.067
We didn't hear anything, really.

1097
01:01:08.127 --> 01:01:08.527
Okay, okay.

1098
01:01:08.547 --> 01:01:08.887
Nothing.

1099
01:01:09.047 --> 01:01:11.789
You guys are the worst.

1100
01:01:11.849 --> 01:01:14.110
When do you actually do experiments to say, okay, cool.

1101
01:01:14.430 --> 01:01:16.091
I'm going to try out one of the other harnesses.

1102
01:01:16.171 --> 01:01:17.651
I'm going to try out one of the other models.

1103
01:01:17.711 --> 01:01:20.452
I'm going to try out this skill versus, hey, it's work time.

1104
01:01:20.553 --> 01:01:23.654
I'm going to develop more expertise with what I currently have.

1105
01:01:24.629 --> 01:01:27.953
That's what I use my Twitch stream for in the morning.

1106
01:01:28.694 --> 01:01:38.945
That's kind of even before AI, that's when I spent the time to learn Camel when I started streaming, to learn effect, to learn different frameworks, different languages.

1107
01:01:39.325 --> 01:01:44.591
Yeah, that's what made me get started streaming in the morning was like I...

1108
01:01:45.932 --> 01:01:52.395
somehow started waking up early when I turned 30 and then I just was like, Oh, I actually am in like a pretty good mood and have high energy in the morning.

1109
01:01:52.415 --> 01:01:54.376
If I actually get out of bed and started.

1110
01:01:55.036 --> 01:02:01.739
And so like when I'm in my best mood and have the most energy, I'm doing the things that I care about.

1111
01:02:01.779 --> 01:02:02.620
I'm interested in.

1112
01:02:03.480 --> 01:02:07.722
And a lot of the times that's in service of doing my job better.

1113
01:02:08.202 --> 01:02:09.903
Uh, coincidentally, the, you know,

1114
01:02:10.928 --> 01:02:14.050
Programming and software development is a hobby and a job, fortunately.

1115
01:02:14.890 --> 01:02:17.491
Um, but that's, that's when I do that time.

1116
01:02:18.512 --> 01:02:20.793
Um, I love that.

1117
01:02:21.313 --> 01:02:24.555
Also, that was just a nice layout to a nice shout out for Dylan's own Twitch stream.

1118
01:02:24.575 --> 01:02:25.876
Can you, can you link it in here?

1119
01:02:26.696 --> 01:02:26.856
Yeah.

1120
01:02:26.876 --> 01:02:28.377
They're only getting in a chat right now.

1121
01:02:28.717 --> 01:02:29.077
Thank you.

1122
01:02:29.237 --> 01:02:29.438
Okay.

1123
01:02:29.458 --> 01:02:34.180
Then as our last question, Dylan, I was wondering how people get started on pie.

1124
01:02:34.888 --> 01:02:40.291
And or is it possible to use any like subscriptions that people already have inside of Pi?

1125
01:02:40.311 --> 01:02:41.031
I actually don't know.

1126
01:02:41.051 --> 01:02:44.213
Like, can you use a codex sub or like a Claude sub or anything?

1127
01:02:44.813 --> 01:02:49.375
You can use all the subs except for Claude.

1128
01:02:49.395 --> 01:02:51.256
But even then, you can like try to work around it.

1129
01:02:51.276 --> 01:02:52.737
You can just be like, hey, Pi.

1130
01:02:53.837 --> 01:03:11.542
go you are clawed code man in the middle we wouldn't do that we don't do that code and figure out how to fix this but right yeah you can you can use all the things nice awesome thanks dylan thanks for coming on yeah thanks for having me this is great i feel like trash we didn't i forgot to check in for snacks today you got anything good going on

1131
01:03:12.447 --> 01:03:14.908
I'm finishing this bag of the shortcake bites.

1132
01:03:15.228 --> 01:03:16.168
Check this out.

1133
01:03:16.288 --> 01:03:22.171
I left it by my window, so there's supposed to be little balls, but they melted into this, like, big old thingy here.

1134
01:03:22.811 --> 01:03:24.551
You know if you eat that, it only counts as one.

1135
01:03:26.352 --> 01:03:26.472
Oh.

1136
01:03:26.812 --> 01:03:27.573
But I want to save for it.

1137
01:03:28.733 --> 01:03:29.573
Yeah.

1138
01:03:29.793 --> 01:03:32.534
It's just throwing it out there, so it's better for you when they're melted together.

1139
01:03:33.355 --> 01:03:34.175
It only counts as one.

1140
01:03:35.183 --> 01:03:35.704
Delicious.

1141
01:03:36.284 --> 01:03:38.126
I'm going on a beach vacation now right after this.

1142
01:03:38.186 --> 01:03:38.706
Oh, really?

1143
01:03:39.287 --> 01:03:40.428
Oh, sick.

1144
01:03:40.508 --> 01:03:42.590
I was just at Great Wolf Lodge.

1145
01:03:43.150 --> 01:03:46.473
You know, Great Wolf Lodge, indoor water park with the kiddos.

1146
01:03:46.733 --> 01:03:47.414
It was a good time.

1147
01:03:47.554 --> 01:03:47.854
Nice.

1148
01:03:47.974 --> 01:03:48.475
Good times?

1149
01:03:48.755 --> 01:03:49.376
Nice.

1150
01:03:49.816 --> 01:03:51.357
It was a good week for vacations.

1151
01:03:53.459 --> 01:03:54.841
I can't wait for some vacation time.

1152
01:03:55.421 --> 01:03:55.601
Nice.

1153
01:03:55.661 --> 01:03:57.303
I need to get AI brain rot out of my system.

1154
01:03:57.363 --> 01:03:59.104
AI literally brain rot out of my system.

1155
01:03:59.425 --> 01:04:00.526
That's why I got to go.

1156
01:04:02.282 --> 01:04:02.482
Yeah.

1157
01:04:03.043 --> 01:04:03.923
No, I'm not even joking.

1158
01:04:03.943 --> 01:04:04.984
Can you play us out on guitar?

1159
01:04:05.164 --> 01:04:07.885
There's a lot of AI burnout happening right now.

1160
01:04:08.146 --> 01:04:09.526
It's a fun year, so it's embarrassing.

1161
01:04:09.546 --> 01:04:11.267
Yeah, I know this episode isn't for it, but yeah, dude.

1162
01:04:11.488 --> 01:04:12.068
I've been in that.

1163
01:04:12.288 --> 01:04:14.289
Yeah, I'm in it.

1164
01:04:14.489 --> 01:04:15.550
Yeah, go fishing.

1165
01:04:15.570 --> 01:04:20.853
I think, yeah, actually, I've been... Hey, I've been working a lot on fishing, actually, a bunch of us.

1166
01:04:21.293 --> 01:04:21.874
Me too.

1167
01:04:22.314 --> 01:04:23.695
I've got a fishing game coming out.

1168
01:04:24.782 --> 01:04:25.582
We all have a fishing game.

1169
01:04:25.602 --> 01:04:27.143
I can't tell if you guys are serious ever.

1170
01:04:27.403 --> 01:04:28.343
Oh, we're so serious.

1171
01:04:28.463 --> 01:04:29.983
Okay, so I'll explain the story quickly.

1172
01:04:30.003 --> 01:04:33.164
This will be Inside Baseball, but it's fine because it's the very end of the podcast.

1173
01:04:34.104 --> 01:04:47.427
We played a putt-putt game as a team like three weeks ago or something like that, like a video game one, and it was fine except the textures kept disappearing, and I was like so confident that I could vibe code a better version of this game in almost no time.

1174
01:04:48.107 --> 01:04:52.488
And so then I started vibe coding one, and then Prime was like, well –

1175
01:04:53.603 --> 01:04:55.923
Yours isn't even crazy stick man golf.

1176
01:04:56.264 --> 01:04:56.764
It's crazy.

1177
01:04:56.784 --> 01:04:58.844
Stickman golf in 2d was the best puppet game ever made.

1178
01:04:59.144 --> 01:04:59.684
Yours is stupid.

1179
01:04:59.704 --> 01:05:00.644
You should switch it to 2d.

1180
01:05:01.125 --> 01:05:04.365
And I'm like, I'm not going to switch my game from 3d to 2d.

1181
01:05:04.425 --> 01:05:06.186
I've already done several prompts.

1182
01:05:06.226 --> 01:05:07.646
I've spent a lot of time on this prime.

1183
01:05:08.206 --> 01:05:10.326
And so then several prompts, exactly.

1184
01:05:10.687 --> 01:05:14.087
So then prime built his version and then vegan built one.

1185
01:05:14.127 --> 01:05:17.908
And he was like, well, mine has to be non Euclidean, except he couldn't find the Euclid.

1186
01:05:17.928 --> 01:05:18.628
So it was fine.

1187
01:05:19.108 --> 01:05:22.489
And then it was harder to find than you thought that I thought it way harder.

1188
01:05:22.992 --> 01:05:30.422
And so then we decided we would do a showcase and we played our like five coded games for a terminal team and recorded it.

1189
01:05:30.442 --> 01:05:36.690
We're going to release the video coming out on terminal channel soon, but next, next game up is a fishing game.

1190
01:05:36.950 --> 01:05:39.574
So we've been working on vibe coding a fishing game in the meantime.

1191
01:05:40.978 --> 01:05:43.660
I love that you guys put all of our meetings end up like this.

1192
01:05:43.720 --> 01:05:45.381
Like, I could make a game way better than you.

1193
01:05:45.441 --> 01:05:46.862
My game would be way better than you.

1194
01:05:47.102 --> 01:05:47.863
Fine, later.

1195
01:05:48.443 --> 01:05:57.489
The call closes, and then no work has got done for the company, and then we're just like, I can't talk to anyone because I don't want them to steal my fishing game ideas, which is a problem we're having right now.

1196
01:05:58.808 --> 01:06:01.310
I have some good fishing game ideas.

1197
01:06:01.430 --> 01:06:02.511
The problem is I have three good ideas.

1198
01:06:02.531 --> 01:06:03.893
You can fish the fishing game ideas.

1199
01:06:05.174 --> 01:06:05.354
Oh.

1200
01:06:05.434 --> 01:06:06.235
P-H-I-F-H.

1201
01:06:06.295 --> 01:06:06.796
Okay, okay.

1202
01:06:06.816 --> 01:06:06.956
Stop.

1203
01:06:06.976 --> 01:06:07.677
Dylan, Dylan.

1204
01:06:07.737 --> 01:06:09.118
I'm actually glad that you mentioned that.

1205
01:06:10.099 --> 01:06:10.480
Quiet.

1206
01:06:11.478 --> 01:06:14.300
because I already have a game that's a joke version of that.

1207
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:16.421
I'll say it here, because I know that it's fine.

1208
01:06:16.441 --> 01:06:17.761
Vegan, it wasn't going to fall for it.

1209
01:06:18.182 --> 01:06:26.406
I was going to make one where you go fishing, and then when you get back after you catch your fish, it says, do you want to save your fishing accomplishments?

1210
01:06:26.506 --> 01:06:29.728
And then you say yes, and then it asks you to log in with Google.

1211
01:06:30.208 --> 01:06:33.750
And then it's a fake page, and you type in your password there.

1212
01:06:34.150 --> 01:06:39.213
And then I wouldn't actually save it, but then I would be like, you just got fished!

1213
01:06:40.313 --> 01:06:41.594
That would have got me so good.

1214
01:06:41.614 --> 01:06:44.195
The game was going to be called Get Baited or something like that.

1215
01:06:44.215 --> 01:06:45.135
You know what I mean?

1216
01:06:45.155 --> 01:06:45.635
Get baited?

1217
01:06:46.456 --> 01:06:46.636
Yeah.

1218
01:06:46.656 --> 01:06:49.757
And then we're going to sell those emails on the dark web.

1219
01:06:49.877 --> 01:06:54.959
I just assume anything, any system that Began touches is still compromised from when we were in SFX.

1220
01:06:54.979 --> 01:06:55.479
Oh yeah, definitely.

1221
01:06:55.499 --> 01:06:56.099
That's smart.

1222
01:06:56.299 --> 01:06:57.640
That's really smart, actually.

1223
01:06:57.660 --> 01:06:58.620
That's really smart.

1224
01:06:58.660 --> 01:07:03.422
So when I was describing running one of every harness, I made one of every fishing game.

1225
01:07:03.442 --> 01:07:04.843
So I made six different-

1226
01:07:06.891 --> 01:07:11.694
I've spiked out six separate fishing games with six unique mechanics that have never been seen.

1227
01:07:11.714 --> 01:07:13.535
And now I'm consolidating into one feature.

1228
01:07:13.896 --> 01:07:18.178
But that's what I was doing to, like, have one thing to compare everything against.

1229
01:07:18.579 --> 01:07:21.341
But I will say – okay, I'll reveal this.

1230
01:07:22.001 --> 01:07:30.667
I had an agent go and collect every single piece of LLB-ing catalog, merchandise, advertising of all time, working around the clock, gathering.

1231
01:07:30.687 --> 01:07:32.128
And then I looked at my archive.

1232
01:07:32.568 --> 01:07:33.348
I've got it all.

1233
01:07:33.488 --> 01:07:34.649
I've got every LLB, everything.

1234
01:07:34.869 --> 01:07:35.790
I've got it all.

1235
01:07:36.110 --> 01:07:42.874
My agent submitted a request to digitize some catalogs from a guy who apparently had more.

1236
01:07:43.275 --> 01:07:46.117
I came in and I was like, it's an email.

1237
01:07:46.217 --> 01:07:50.279
And I feel bad because I'm like, oh, my God, dude, who's collecting LB in catalogs.

1238
01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:51.320
I love you.

1239
01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:52.521
I don't want to upset you.

1240
01:07:52.561 --> 01:07:52.981
I'm sorry.

1241
01:07:53.001 --> 01:07:54.242
My agent messaged you.

1242
01:07:54.462 --> 01:07:56.223
I'm an enthusiast.

1243
01:07:56.403 --> 01:07:56.583
Yeah.

1244
01:07:56.603 --> 01:07:58.485
So a little preview for what my game is going to involve.

1245
01:07:58.905 --> 01:07:59.105
Yeah.

1246
01:08:00.537 --> 01:08:02.078
Okay, well, that's the end of the episode.

1247
01:08:02.098 --> 01:08:03.538
We'll see all of you guys next week.

1248
01:08:03.598 --> 01:08:05.059
Prime will be back maybe.

1249
01:08:05.139 --> 01:08:05.919
Otherwise, we'll see.

1250
01:08:05.939 --> 01:08:06.879
We'll talk about something else.

1251
01:08:06.939 --> 01:08:09.800
Maybe we'll talk about our pie journeys and we'll show our stuff off to Dylan.

1252
01:08:09.860 --> 01:08:10.641
Okay, bye.

1253
01:08:10.661 --> 01:08:10.741
Bye.

1254
01:08:11.241 --> 01:08:12.281
Bye.