WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.091 --> 00:00:01.511 Hey, welcome to the stand-up. 2 00:00:01.991 --> 00:00:03.392 It's... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 3 00:00:03.432 --> 00:00:04.332 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 4 00:00:04.352 --> 00:00:28.716 It's like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 5 00:00:29.653 --> 00:00:32.295 Hold on, guys. 6 00:00:32.655 --> 00:00:33.876 I haven't moved the ticket over. 7 00:00:34.136 --> 00:00:36.677 Okay, we just got done doing our weekly complaint about Riverside. 8 00:00:36.697 --> 00:00:39.159 You didn't even let me get into in progress. 9 00:00:39.179 --> 00:00:40.579 You guys just went so fast. 10 00:00:41.140 --> 00:00:42.160 Let me move it over here. 11 00:00:42.180 --> 00:00:43.041 We're done now. 12 00:00:43.061 --> 00:00:44.302 We can do the intro, Trash. 13 00:00:44.322 --> 00:00:46.243 Why don't you tell us about what you're doing, Trash? 14 00:00:47.166 --> 00:00:47.767 Wait, no, you do the intro. 15 00:00:47.787 --> 00:00:48.347 You gotta do the intro. 16 00:00:48.367 --> 00:00:48.708 Your mic. 17 00:00:48.728 --> 00:00:50.469 Wait, why do I hear two primes? 18 00:00:50.489 --> 00:00:52.031 I don't know what you did to your mic. 19 00:00:52.051 --> 00:00:52.711 Let's hear two primes. 20 00:00:52.731 --> 00:00:55.834 But you're a thousand times louder than you were about five seconds ago. 21 00:00:55.854 --> 00:00:56.455 Dude, it's Riverside. 22 00:00:56.515 --> 00:00:57.096 It's Riverside. 23 00:00:57.176 --> 00:00:58.317 I'm a thousand times louder? 24 00:00:58.337 --> 00:01:02.421 No, no, Chad is spamming way too dank and a bunch of other stuff. 25 00:01:02.441 --> 00:01:03.061 That's a different mic. 26 00:01:03.101 --> 00:01:03.322 Really? 27 00:01:03.342 --> 00:01:04.483 My ears are exploding. 28 00:01:05.003 --> 00:01:06.285 I didn't touch anything. 29 00:01:06.545 --> 00:01:07.025 Oh, my goodness. 30 00:01:07.045 --> 00:01:07.986 It's because it's Riverside. 31 00:01:08.026 --> 00:01:08.627 I'm telling you. 32 00:01:09.007 --> 00:01:10.067 No, it's not Riverside. 33 00:01:10.087 --> 00:01:14.948 That one, no, because he's not sending Riverside audio of his own mic to Twitch. 34 00:01:14.988 --> 00:01:16.008 He's destroying that himself. 35 00:01:16.028 --> 00:01:18.129 Okay, well, I must have pushed a button. 36 00:01:18.509 --> 00:01:18.989 I don't know. 37 00:01:19.069 --> 00:01:19.849 There you go, Chad. 38 00:01:19.869 --> 00:01:20.489 It's back. 39 00:01:20.649 --> 00:01:22.730 It's normal. 40 00:01:22.830 --> 00:01:24.190 Okay, I'll take the L on this one. 41 00:01:24.210 --> 00:01:25.390 Skateo theory in action. 42 00:01:25.470 --> 00:01:27.030 We only have 45 minutes. 43 00:01:27.250 --> 00:01:28.371 Start the podcast. 44 00:01:28.771 --> 00:01:29.591 Somebody start the podcast. 45 00:01:29.611 --> 00:01:32.451 Literally trying, and then they're like, Trash, where are you going? 46 00:01:32.471 --> 00:01:34.312 And I'm just like, bro, I got to do the intro. 47 00:01:34.392 --> 00:01:34.652 Okay. 48 00:01:34.672 --> 00:01:34.912 Do it. 49 00:01:35.512 --> 00:02:01.180 hey do it welcome to the stand up today we are talking about the intro no i'm just reading what's on the screen today we are talking about is gaming dead are agents the new game what is friendship slop and can vibe coding a game be a game of course today with us as always we have the legendary casey miratori which is a legendary programmer he knows everything he's going to teach us all the stuff we need to know 50 00:02:01.520 --> 00:02:02.241 Thank you, Casey. 51 00:02:02.281 --> 00:02:03.943 Literally, there are no legends about me. 52 00:02:04.123 --> 00:02:05.485 So I don't know where it comes from, but okay. 53 00:02:05.545 --> 00:02:06.046 Continue. 54 00:02:06.186 --> 00:02:06.766 Not true. 55 00:02:06.927 --> 00:02:08.148 Oh, we're starting some. 56 00:02:08.248 --> 00:02:10.451 Oh, not true, Casey. 57 00:02:11.112 --> 00:02:15.097 You've already been mythological-sized, and so you're already way beyond everything. 58 00:02:15.337 --> 00:02:17.259 That time I fought the dragon was awesome. 59 00:02:17.279 --> 00:02:19.142 Sex, yeah, Sex Spiral, Casey. 60 00:02:19.502 --> 00:02:20.843 Yeah, Sex Spiral Casey. 61 00:02:20.883 --> 00:02:21.863 We all know about this. 62 00:02:21.883 --> 00:02:22.284 Good point. 63 00:02:22.384 --> 00:02:23.244 That is a legend. 64 00:02:23.284 --> 00:02:23.784 That is a legend. 65 00:02:23.844 --> 00:02:27.947 I got a slug story that I'm going to, I've been waiting to roll out that's the sequel to that. 66 00:02:28.447 --> 00:02:29.968 So one day it'll happen. 67 00:02:30.048 --> 00:02:31.188 Anyway, continue Prime. 68 00:02:31.268 --> 00:02:31.609 Okay. 69 00:02:31.629 --> 00:02:35.351 Well, I did not realize that slugs also have some very fantastic story. 70 00:02:35.431 --> 00:02:37.032 Also with us today, we have Trash. 71 00:02:37.552 --> 00:02:42.395 Trash is also a legend, but in his own way for having one password in which was hacked. 72 00:02:43.555 --> 00:02:43.975 TJ. 73 00:02:44.035 --> 00:02:44.776 Whatever. 74 00:02:45.836 --> 00:02:48.218 TJ, co-host, king of puns. 75 00:02:49.468 --> 00:02:50.390 Dad of dads. 76 00:02:50.410 --> 00:02:50.750 Thank you. 77 00:02:51.151 --> 00:02:52.313 Thank you very much for joining us. 78 00:02:52.393 --> 00:02:53.054 He's my dad. 79 00:02:54.297 --> 00:02:56.541 I made a putt-putt game recently. 80 00:02:56.881 --> 00:02:58.704 So that's kind of my game dev history. 81 00:02:58.724 --> 00:02:59.526 So I just wanted to share. 82 00:02:59.666 --> 00:03:01.730 Like putt-putt saves the zoo like that putt-putt? 83 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:03.700 No, like mini golf. 84 00:03:03.740 --> 00:03:05.621 I don't know what pup putt is. 85 00:03:05.661 --> 00:03:06.841 Pup putt saves the zoo. 86 00:03:07.041 --> 00:03:07.321 Sorry. 87 00:03:07.441 --> 00:03:10.102 Who is this pup putt, and why do they need to save a zoo? 88 00:03:10.442 --> 00:03:12.582 Jeez, guys, come on. 89 00:03:12.602 --> 00:03:13.762 We're talking about... Quick. 90 00:03:14.022 --> 00:03:23.104 So in gaming history, you may have heard of something called the Secret of Monkey Island or the Scum Engine, S-C-U-M-M, Story Creation Utility for Maniac Mansion. 91 00:03:23.184 --> 00:03:23.525 Anyone? 92 00:03:23.545 --> 00:03:25.205 Anyone? 93 00:03:25.225 --> 00:03:25.425 Anyone? 94 00:03:26.877 --> 00:03:30.240 I've heard of some of those words before, but I don't know anything about them. 95 00:03:30.420 --> 00:03:30.920 In different contexts. 96 00:03:30.980 --> 00:03:32.341 I've actually heard all those words. 97 00:03:32.621 --> 00:03:33.982 I've just never heard them in that order. 98 00:03:34.082 --> 00:03:37.685 Wait, is this in the same people as Freddie Fish? 99 00:03:38.085 --> 00:03:38.426 Yes. 100 00:03:39.466 --> 00:03:40.007 Okay, all right. 101 00:03:40.047 --> 00:03:41.848 Well, now we're talking, Casey. 102 00:03:42.108 --> 00:03:49.494 The guy who basically created the modern point-and-click adventure, Ron Gilbert. 103 00:03:50.174 --> 00:03:50.534 Okay. 104 00:03:51.155 --> 00:03:53.737 And his team, Dave Taylor, like these guys. 105 00:03:55.250 --> 00:04:04.235 They were at LucasArts, the game company that was, you know, founded by – that was like a George Lucas sub-studio thing. 106 00:04:04.255 --> 00:04:04.455 Right. 107 00:04:05.896 --> 00:04:11.439 They left that after making Scum and the tools for it and shipping a bunch of stuff. 108 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:13.020 They made Scrum? 109 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:13.500 Scum. 110 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:14.961 The thing we based this podcast on? 111 00:04:15.662 --> 00:04:16.163 No, I know. 112 00:04:16.243 --> 00:04:16.524 I know. 113 00:04:16.804 --> 00:04:17.145 Sorry. 114 00:04:17.165 --> 00:04:17.626 Yeah, yeah. 115 00:04:17.706 --> 00:04:18.307 I know. 116 00:04:18.968 --> 00:04:19.289 Sorry. 117 00:04:19.590 --> 00:04:26.743 So they left LucasArts at one point and formed a company called Humongous Entertainment. 118 00:04:27.752 --> 00:04:30.835 And that they made, they had a series of games for kids. 119 00:04:30.855 --> 00:04:31.675 They made kids games. 120 00:04:32.156 --> 00:04:35.719 It was a putt-putt saves using scum, using the engine that they made at LucasArts. 121 00:04:35.739 --> 00:04:39.161 They had a deal that they would keep kind of sending. 122 00:04:39.342 --> 00:04:45.587 They would basically share their changes back to LucasArts in exchange for being able to continue using the engine or something like this. 123 00:04:45.967 --> 00:04:47.989 So then they made that series of putt-putt games. 124 00:04:48.209 --> 00:04:49.830 They made the series of Freddy Fish games. 125 00:04:50.150 --> 00:04:51.571 They had a thing called Sly... 126 00:04:53.573 --> 00:04:56.937 Fox, something like this, some Spy Fox, something like this. 127 00:04:57.037 --> 00:04:57.557 I don't remember. 128 00:04:57.577 --> 00:04:59.620 And then Pajama Sam 2, right? 129 00:04:59.640 --> 00:04:59.980 Pajama Sam. 130 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:01.001 Those are the two that I know. 131 00:05:01.261 --> 00:05:04.245 Okay, you just picked all of the ones that I didn't know. 132 00:05:04.285 --> 00:05:05.186 No, they're real names. 133 00:05:05.206 --> 00:05:06.247 No, they're amazing. 134 00:05:06.367 --> 00:05:07.928 Hey, is that HTTP? 135 00:05:08.569 --> 00:05:09.510 Get that out of here. 136 00:05:09.530 --> 00:05:11.132 That's not how we order coffee. 137 00:05:11.192 --> 00:05:13.975 We order coffee via sshterminal.shop. 138 00:05:14.195 --> 00:05:15.355 Yeah, you want a real experience? 139 00:05:15.555 --> 00:05:16.736 You want real coffee? 140 00:05:16.996 --> 00:05:19.996 You want awesome subscriptions so you never have to remember again? 141 00:05:20.356 --> 00:05:25.638 Oh, you want exclusive blends with exclusive coffee and exclusive content? 142 00:05:25.858 --> 00:05:26.778 Then check out Kron. 143 00:05:26.998 --> 00:05:28.098 You don't know what SSH is? 144 00:05:29.238 --> 00:05:30.579 Well, maybe the coffee's not for you. 145 00:05:40.305 --> 00:05:41.826 Remember how we said we had 45 minutes? 146 00:05:41.846 --> 00:05:44.047 Where are we going with the story? 147 00:05:44.947 --> 00:05:46.468 This is history of gaming. 148 00:05:46.728 --> 00:05:48.008 This is critical. 149 00:05:48.028 --> 00:05:51.430 You can't talk about gaming and then be like, I have no idea what Putt-Putt is. 150 00:05:51.590 --> 00:05:55.011 What is even no Freddy Fish? 151 00:05:55.311 --> 00:05:57.612 Well, if you guys haven't beaten Battletoads, you can't talk about gaming. 152 00:05:57.692 --> 00:05:59.973 I'm setting up my own goalpost. 153 00:06:00.033 --> 00:06:00.774 I know Battletoads. 154 00:06:00.794 --> 00:06:01.054 Oh, good. 155 00:06:01.094 --> 00:06:01.734 We can all gatekeep. 156 00:06:01.754 --> 00:06:02.174 Earthworm. 157 00:06:02.194 --> 00:06:02.494 Good. 158 00:06:02.635 --> 00:06:03.035 Good. 159 00:06:03.115 --> 00:06:03.295 Good. 160 00:06:03.915 --> 00:06:05.217 Battletoads was pretty hard. 161 00:06:05.417 --> 00:06:06.518 I only got to play it at France. 162 00:06:06.578 --> 00:06:09.482 We never had a NES, rather, at NES. 163 00:06:10.283 --> 00:06:11.805 I didn't realize you pronounced it with a Z. 164 00:06:11.845 --> 00:06:12.385 That's unique. 165 00:06:13.226 --> 00:06:13.467 NES. 166 00:06:13.727 --> 00:06:14.888 I just say Nintendo. 167 00:06:14.968 --> 00:06:15.189 Yeah. 168 00:06:15.990 --> 00:06:17.812 Anyway, continue with the setup. 169 00:06:17.832 --> 00:06:20.154 So what are we talking about? 170 00:06:20.235 --> 00:06:22.017 We're talking about some guy made a tweet. 171 00:06:22.477 --> 00:06:24.598 Okay, so yes, today, well, it's spawned. 172 00:06:24.658 --> 00:06:32.540 It is all spawned off from a guy making a tweet, which is rather silly, which he said something along the lines of this right here. 173 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:39.003 In fact, we can bring it up, which says, I'm pretty sure gaming as a category is dead because everyone is just going to build their own games. 174 00:06:39.223 --> 00:06:41.904 Games don't have ongoing maintenance costs. 175 00:06:42.324 --> 00:06:43.864 Everyone can kind of just generate it. 176 00:06:43.884 --> 00:06:48.106 Now, I mean, I'm sure just like a lot of you, that might have seemed a little silly. 177 00:06:49.846 --> 00:06:51.667 I don't think that that is going to be the case. 178 00:06:51.707 --> 00:06:56.950 I don't think everybody's just going to generate games just like not everybody's going to be a programmer, even if programming was for Freezy. 179 00:06:57.830 --> 00:06:59.851 And so, of course, I was not about that. 180 00:06:59.871 --> 00:07:00.772 I'm like, I don't think so. 181 00:07:00.852 --> 00:07:02.913 I think it's not necessarily that. 182 00:07:02.953 --> 00:07:04.394 And he said the game doesn't even have to be good. 183 00:07:04.734 --> 00:07:07.395 That's not what people just want to be able to play whatever games. 184 00:07:07.475 --> 00:07:09.016 Playing the agent is the game, of course. 185 00:07:09.076 --> 00:07:12.638 And I found that to be a little bit ridiculous, but I started thinking about it. 186 00:07:13.078 --> 00:07:15.659 And then this is his kind of final point, 187 00:07:15.659 --> 00:07:19.201 which is billions of people would rather AI chat than read a book. 188 00:07:19.841 --> 00:07:24.623 People would rather play an agent, not play a traditional prepackaged game. 189 00:07:25.023 --> 00:07:30.686 Now, there's a lot more to this, and I was just trying to give the best walkthrough of his top-level points. 190 00:07:31.066 --> 00:07:32.246 But this really spawns off. 191 00:07:32.447 --> 00:07:33.807 Is gaming going to be dead? 192 00:07:33.947 --> 00:07:35.988 Are we seeing a revolution in gaming? 193 00:07:36.388 --> 00:07:41.791 And since we have legendary game developer Casey Muratori, I thought this would be a good time to talk about 194 00:07:42.691 --> 00:07:43.692 A little bit about that. 195 00:07:43.812 --> 00:07:46.713 Is it actually possible that gaming can, in fact, be dead? 196 00:07:48.594 --> 00:07:58.660 I mean, I guess the problem primarily here is just that I think the person is kind of making a very strange leap of... 197 00:07:59.943 --> 00:08:08.971 a business like leap from something that is just an aspect, something that could happen to some people, right? 198 00:08:08.991 --> 00:08:10.793 It's the way I would say it. 199 00:08:11.173 --> 00:08:19.560 The first thing to understand is like, people don't play and buy or buy and play prepackaged games as the primary revenue generator in games anymore. 200 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:20.101 Anyway, 201 00:08:20.461 --> 00:08:22.683 So this is kind of very antiquated thinking. 202 00:08:23.323 --> 00:08:25.425 What he's talking about already happened. 203 00:08:25.585 --> 00:08:28.708 It's called like Fortnite and Roblox and stuff like this. 204 00:08:29.388 --> 00:08:30.109 And Minecraft. 205 00:08:30.209 --> 00:08:35.153 It's already, already gaming moved on from what this person is thinking of. 206 00:08:35.694 --> 00:08:38.916 And already provides the thing that this person is thinking of. 207 00:08:39.737 --> 00:08:40.457 Specifically... 208 00:08:41.504 --> 00:08:50.647 that you can have these sort of like inexpensive, not particularly customizable, whatever experiences that people just kind of make. 209 00:08:51.227 --> 00:08:57.369 But the thing this person is missing is what people actually wanted to do is be with their friends and share them with their friends and experience them. 210 00:08:58.070 --> 00:09:02.191 And gaming already made those things, and they already account for revenue. 211 00:09:02.231 --> 00:09:07.913 So they sort of had a semi-good idea in this tweet if they had had it... 212 00:09:08.713 --> 00:09:32.810 15 years ago or whatever the game industry already did all this and the only degree to which ai will really affect this is you know those platforms like a roblox like fortnite and so on you will probably see the ability to use employ ai increasingly much in platforms like this to make different kinds of content i've literally heard 213 00:09:33.470 --> 00:09:54.005 And I don't know why it has not been produced yet, but I've literally heard people at companies, very prominent game companies, explain things like, we can see that there will probably be a thing that's like sort of tick tock, where you can kind of quickly go through games that are very brief and small and things like that. 214 00:09:54.305 --> 00:09:56.167 So all of this stuff is already known. 215 00:09:56.727 --> 00:10:12.380 I don't think it will have pretty much any effect on gaming as a category, except possibly like in the much smaller, like if we're talking about indie games and how it affects that or something like in the much, much, much lower, less significant part of the revenue stream. 216 00:10:14.137 --> 00:10:34.100 um so so hold on i just have to take a quick step back you know i just realized something unreal engine is you could call it a game for developing games yes and then it made fortnight which is a game where you can develop games is fortnight a self-hosted compiler yet do you build fortnight do you build fortnight with fortnight yet 217 00:10:35.895 --> 00:10:37.876 No, they're making Verse, right? 218 00:10:38.076 --> 00:10:40.437 They've got a sick programming language going on there. 219 00:10:41.017 --> 00:10:47.980 You don't yet, Prime, but I feel like... Well, what I can say is that the... 220 00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:51.882 There is sort of like Unreal Engines in Unreal Engines and stuff. 221 00:10:51.942 --> 00:11:01.106 I feel like there's things like the Epic Store has like Unreal Engines bundled in it for launching things that have Unreal Engine in it. 222 00:11:01.366 --> 00:11:04.147 So you're not far, but I don't think... 223 00:11:05.007 --> 00:11:07.170 literally what you want, maybe not yet. 224 00:11:07.350 --> 00:11:08.351 But they'll get there. 225 00:11:08.792 --> 00:11:09.593 They'll get there, Prime. 226 00:11:10.374 --> 00:11:15.039 I do think there's a lot, because we've kind of already immediately went straight into what is called friendship slop. 227 00:11:15.079 --> 00:11:17.762 Now, there's a lot of debate on what exactly friendship slop is. 228 00:11:19.044 --> 00:11:21.246 Fortnite is, Casey said Fortnite. 229 00:11:22.588 --> 00:11:23.789 Fortnite is not friendship slop. 230 00:11:23.929 --> 00:11:53.238 Fortnite is not friendship slop Fortnite started friendship slop You have to figure it out by context And then you're going to give us a definition later Like you're actually at a stand up at work And you don't want to look stupid So you're not along Until you have enough context to guess What the context is At the end of the meeting That's what we've been talking about You have to make meaningful contributions as well along the way So it also looks like you're listening and paying attention So it's really going to be different Oh my god 231 00:11:53.498 --> 00:11:54.139 That makes sense. 232 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:56.504 That does make sense. 233 00:11:56.584 --> 00:12:00.151 But TJ, I would argue that Fortnite was the original friendship slop. 234 00:12:02.514 --> 00:12:10.422 I might say that the slop part is a little bit perhaps unfair there because it is very fully built out. 235 00:12:10.682 --> 00:12:20.331 So the like the slop part of friendship slop often, if you actually look at the titles, the slop part is kind of a little more apt oftentimes. 236 00:12:20.631 --> 00:12:21.512 I mean, I agree. 237 00:12:22.573 --> 00:12:25.416 I'm not really arguing with what you're saying, but I just want to kind of throw that in there. 238 00:12:26.391 --> 00:12:27.391 Okay. 239 00:12:27.451 --> 00:12:33.793 The reason why is that because this was like 2018, 2019 when it exploded and really came on the scene. 240 00:12:33.813 --> 00:12:34.793 When you started streaming. 241 00:12:36.133 --> 00:12:44.175 Yeah, right after I started streaming or no, right before I started streaming is when it exploded because I started streaming Fortnite. 242 00:12:44.315 --> 00:12:46.096 Friendship Slot? 243 00:12:46.116 --> 00:12:46.516 Say that again. 244 00:12:47.176 --> 00:12:47.976 What was exploding? 245 00:12:48.056 --> 00:12:49.617 Friendship Slot? 246 00:12:49.797 --> 00:12:51.717 Are you even paying attention? 247 00:12:52.337 --> 00:12:55.418 I'm trying to get context on what Friendship Slot is. 248 00:12:56.955 --> 00:12:58.035 Trash, we'll explain shortly. 249 00:12:58.055 --> 00:13:01.476 Don't worry, because we're going to have an argument about it. 250 00:13:01.516 --> 00:13:03.677 We should just have the argument about it now. 251 00:13:03.737 --> 00:13:10.078 But the rise of these AI games is really they're going to be for friendship slop, I assume. 252 00:13:10.618 --> 00:13:10.798 Right? 253 00:13:10.838 --> 00:13:14.259 Which is just, you know, games in which you – I'll just explain it now. 254 00:13:14.299 --> 00:13:26.462 At least my definition, which probably is different than TJ's, which is games in which the primary purpose is for you to develop and continue your friendship with other people, not necessarily the game itself. 255 00:13:27.202 --> 00:13:31.288 So I might just, like, this is the same as my comment before. 256 00:13:32.029 --> 00:13:35.514 I would say that that is just a social game. 257 00:13:36.435 --> 00:13:42.263 To really be friendship slop, it also kind of has to be a fairly low effort production. 258 00:13:42.283 --> 00:13:42.384 Okay. 259 00:13:42.784 --> 00:13:43.885 That's the only thing. 260 00:13:43.905 --> 00:13:48.067 Because that's the reason I think Fortnite doesn't quite qualify. 261 00:13:48.467 --> 00:13:50.889 Because it's like there's just too much production value. 262 00:13:50.909 --> 00:13:51.689 So the slop. 263 00:13:52.130 --> 00:13:53.290 We tend to say friendship slop. 264 00:13:53.310 --> 00:13:54.431 But usually you look at the game. 265 00:13:54.471 --> 00:13:57.433 It's like these crappy textures on low rent geometry. 266 00:13:57.473 --> 00:14:00.395 With like character models that are kind of crappy. 267 00:14:00.915 --> 00:14:03.296 And there's like not much in it. 268 00:14:03.396 --> 00:14:04.677 That's kind of, you know. 269 00:14:04.937 --> 00:14:05.738 So I don't know. 270 00:14:05.778 --> 00:14:07.599 I don't want to make too big of a case of it. 271 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:09.360 But that's my feeling anyway. 272 00:14:10.570 --> 00:14:13.456 I would say I agree more with Casey. 273 00:14:13.516 --> 00:14:20.290 I also think, unfortunately, lately the term, I feel like just goes for any game that's multiplayer, which is crazy because you're like – 274 00:14:21.725 --> 00:14:24.866 Some games are good and they have multiple people playing. 275 00:14:24.906 --> 00:14:25.747 I don't understand. 276 00:14:26.187 --> 00:14:32.129 But, like, I would say a key feature of the genre is there's no point playing at all by yourself. 277 00:14:32.449 --> 00:14:34.370 So, like, Fortnite people play by themselves. 278 00:14:34.991 --> 00:14:37.351 And, like, I mean, like, as in not with their friends. 279 00:14:37.592 --> 00:14:38.712 They, like, solo queue. 280 00:14:38.852 --> 00:14:39.072 Right. 281 00:14:39.592 --> 00:14:40.793 Like, you wouldn't play... 282 00:14:41.333 --> 00:14:50.303 like, I don't know, big, the big walk or whatever the game is a bunch of people playing, like some of these other ones, like, which I'm not saying that's why I like, I don't like necessarily the turn from slot. 283 00:14:50.323 --> 00:14:52.105 Cause then it's like, Oh, the game's bad. 284 00:14:52.646 --> 00:14:53.286 I don't know, whatever. 285 00:14:53.326 --> 00:14:59.113 But like, uh, I would say a defining characteristic has to be that you cannot play solo. 286 00:14:59.513 --> 00:15:01.776 Like, as in, you cannot just turn your computer on and go play. 287 00:15:02.316 --> 00:15:04.019 That's a terrible game if that's the case. 288 00:15:04.680 --> 00:15:06.142 It's probably... 289 00:15:06.262 --> 00:15:08.806 There's fun games like that. 290 00:15:08.826 --> 00:15:10.569 I think we need to have some friendship slop. 291 00:15:11.951 --> 00:15:14.936 Well, we should play Mecha Chameleon together right after this. 292 00:15:14.956 --> 00:15:16.298 Dude, we have to play that game. 293 00:15:18.307 --> 00:15:44.472 trash that's whatever that's i think it's probably one of those things where the the uh the term kind of takes on a life of its own because we didn't have a term for this before it's like it's like vibe coding like vibe coding was originally supposed to be only referring to ai coding where you just weren't really checking anything and you were just kind of like typing in some prompts and letting it do whatever and now people just use vibe coding to mean that you used an ai even if you were like 294 00:15:44.932 --> 00:15:48.694 I made all these test suites and I read all the codes, like it's still vibe coded or whatever. 295 00:15:48.734 --> 00:15:48.875 Right. 296 00:15:48.915 --> 00:15:51.416 It just kind of made, it was just a term for that thing. 297 00:15:51.436 --> 00:15:54.118 Now friendship slop kind of seems to be doing that. 298 00:15:54.218 --> 00:15:57.500 It's kind of like, Hey, it's not really slop necessarily. 299 00:15:57.700 --> 00:16:02.743 It might be, but it might also just be this really well-made game that I'd play with my friends that I still called it friendship slop. 300 00:16:02.803 --> 00:16:03.004 Right. 301 00:16:03.944 --> 00:16:04.184 Right. 302 00:16:04.204 --> 00:16:04.825 Time out, time out. 303 00:16:04.845 --> 00:16:05.125 So the, 304 00:16:06.623 --> 00:16:11.349 So friendship slop, is that just like some term some random person made up for just like a shitty multiplayer game? 305 00:16:11.769 --> 00:16:12.630 I don't know who made it. 306 00:16:12.731 --> 00:16:13.572 I don't know who coined it. 307 00:16:13.632 --> 00:16:14.973 Like where does this come from? 308 00:16:15.073 --> 00:16:19.799 It's entered into the ethos of online discourse about multiplayer games. 309 00:16:21.041 --> 00:16:22.663 And now it's just a word that people use. 310 00:16:23.445 --> 00:16:26.728 But is it implying like it's an AI multiplayer game? 311 00:16:26.828 --> 00:16:33.715 It does a little bit, but I feel like people are sort of insinuating that you used AI to crank it out in no time at all. 312 00:16:34.156 --> 00:16:43.445 But also then it's getting the line is getting blurred now because they're doing it for games that are obviously not like they were made before. 313 00:16:43.625 --> 00:16:47.109 It's definitely applied to games that nobody is arguing were made with AI. 314 00:16:48.239 --> 00:16:48.939 Okay. 315 00:16:48.999 --> 00:16:49.700 I would like to say. 316 00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:50.640 It is notable though. 317 00:16:50.660 --> 00:16:52.921 Zanus just put a Wikipedia link for it. 318 00:16:52.941 --> 00:16:54.882 So it's more notable than Odin. 319 00:16:54.922 --> 00:16:57.803 So we do need to make sure that we give our dues here. 320 00:16:58.424 --> 00:16:59.224 The friend slop. 321 00:16:59.304 --> 00:17:00.564 I saw Ginger Bill in the chat. 322 00:17:00.585 --> 00:17:04.926 Ginger Bill, you aren't notable, but friendship slop is in fact notable. 323 00:17:05.987 --> 00:17:06.627 How does it feel? 324 00:17:07.047 --> 00:17:07.207 Yeah. 325 00:17:07.247 --> 00:17:08.008 How does it feel? 326 00:17:10.728 --> 00:17:11.689 What are the references? 327 00:17:12.229 --> 00:17:14.571 What are the high-quality references? 328 00:17:14.591 --> 00:17:15.072 Oh, great point. 329 00:17:15.112 --> 00:17:16.113 Can we scroll to the bottom? 330 00:17:16.153 --> 00:17:17.474 In that Wikipedia article. 331 00:17:17.514 --> 00:17:17.954 I'm doing it. 332 00:17:17.994 --> 00:17:19.156 I'm scrolling to the bottom for you. 333 00:17:19.196 --> 00:17:20.317 I want to see what it says. 334 00:17:20.337 --> 00:17:22.378 You know, did we get a Wired article in there? 335 00:17:22.438 --> 00:17:23.519 It might be a Wired article. 336 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:25.621 Holy to moly. 337 00:17:25.821 --> 00:17:26.322 Let's see. 338 00:17:26.342 --> 00:17:30.165 Yeah, so this is by... From something called Glizzy, whatever that is. 339 00:17:30.185 --> 00:17:30.606 What the hell? 340 00:17:31.426 --> 00:17:57.125 super jump magazine super jump magazine these might as these might as well be the oxford english dictionary i mean let's be honest here true the highest quality references cripe michael friend have french french slop used to be a derogatory term but hits like gamble with your friends after changing the narrative ign okay that's ign though 341 00:17:58.606 --> 00:17:58.987 Whoa. 342 00:17:59.407 --> 00:18:05.815 So here he is IGN to cover... We just need IGN to cover Odin, and then we're done. 343 00:18:06.295 --> 00:18:06.535 Yes. 344 00:18:06.696 --> 00:18:08.798 Also kind of funny, because Polygon gets a reference. 345 00:18:09.058 --> 00:18:10.140 IGN does not. 346 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:11.541 Is IGN not a real thing? 347 00:18:11.621 --> 00:18:12.943 Is it not considered citable? 348 00:18:13.704 --> 00:18:14.565 I don't know. 349 00:18:15.185 --> 00:18:16.687 Ryan has a great point. 350 00:18:16.707 --> 00:18:17.088 This is... 351 00:18:18.910 --> 00:18:21.771 It's something like International Gaming News or something like that. 352 00:18:21.891 --> 00:18:22.471 I don't remember. 353 00:18:22.491 --> 00:18:24.592 Internet Gaming News, probably. 354 00:18:24.692 --> 00:18:25.172 Never knew. 355 00:18:25.352 --> 00:18:25.792 Never knew. 356 00:18:26.333 --> 00:18:32.575 I do like this idea that none of us know what something is that we've said a thousand times. 357 00:18:32.655 --> 00:18:34.896 I like how Ryan is springing up right now. 358 00:18:34.936 --> 00:18:35.736 In-game name. 359 00:18:36.685 --> 00:18:37.005 Okay. 360 00:18:37.486 --> 00:18:37.766 What? 361 00:18:38.026 --> 00:18:40.727 No, that's just an acronym, bro. 362 00:18:40.767 --> 00:18:41.128 Fine. 363 00:18:41.168 --> 00:18:42.728 You just got bamboozled. 364 00:18:42.748 --> 00:18:43.589 You just got boomer. 365 00:18:43.609 --> 00:18:46.991 Put Gemini down and actually try to find the answer. 366 00:18:47.011 --> 00:18:49.252 This guy just listens to the LLM no matter what. 367 00:18:49.292 --> 00:18:55.095 It was launched in September 29th, 1996, and it originally stood for Imagine Games Network. 368 00:18:55.536 --> 00:18:55.856 Okay. 369 00:18:56.990 --> 00:18:57.831 We were totally wrong. 370 00:18:57.851 --> 00:18:58.511 That sounds awful. 371 00:18:58.791 --> 00:18:59.732 Imagine games. 372 00:18:59.812 --> 00:19:02.934 Bro, you just got search slopped so hard. 373 00:19:02.954 --> 00:19:03.434 That's crazy. 374 00:19:03.454 --> 00:19:04.715 So much search slop going on. 375 00:19:05.115 --> 00:19:06.536 Dude, I can't tell anymore, okay? 376 00:19:06.556 --> 00:19:08.577 It's like 99% AI overviews. 377 00:19:08.977 --> 00:19:12.879 And when you think you escape AI overviews, you scroll down one section. 378 00:19:12.939 --> 00:19:15.081 It's a new section of AI overviews, okay? 379 00:19:15.101 --> 00:19:16.982 So it's like it double whammies you every time. 380 00:19:18.755 --> 00:19:23.498 I wish they would stop putting that AI overview up there because Gemini is just not very good. 381 00:19:23.758 --> 00:19:33.263 And that's not even that's the like quickest thing that Gemini can do to like it's not it didn't go away and think for 15 minutes and then come up with it. 382 00:19:33.343 --> 00:19:34.563 It's just like, I don't know, bro. 383 00:19:34.583 --> 00:19:34.964 Here we go. 384 00:19:34.984 --> 00:19:35.964 This is what we cash. 385 00:19:36.684 --> 00:19:39.026 Like, here's the cash result for this thing. 386 00:19:39.846 --> 00:19:41.147 Good luck. 387 00:19:41.327 --> 00:19:42.267 I wish they'd stop. 388 00:19:42.347 --> 00:19:43.268 It's so bad. 389 00:19:44.486 --> 00:19:45.027 I had it. 390 00:19:45.307 --> 00:19:54.057 We were driving to an amusement park, me and my family, and I asked, I think this was close to last fall, and we're driving. 391 00:19:54.477 --> 00:19:57.320 And I was wondering, when does this park close? 392 00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:58.261 Michigan Adventures. 393 00:19:58.401 --> 00:19:59.683 It's an okay amusement park. 394 00:19:59.763 --> 00:20:03.587 Not as good as Cedar Point for those out there in the Midwest, but it's okay. 395 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.101 And I was like, when does it close? 396 00:20:07.241 --> 00:20:08.922 And it goes, oh, it's already closed. 397 00:20:09.122 --> 00:20:12.643 It closes on October 10 or something like this, some random date, whatever, in the future. 398 00:20:12.703 --> 00:20:14.764 And it wasn't that date yet. 399 00:20:15.004 --> 00:20:19.705 But it was just telling me, when you get there today, the season's already over. 400 00:20:19.725 --> 00:20:21.626 I'm like, I already bought tickets, bro. 401 00:20:21.666 --> 00:20:23.447 Like, Gemini, what are you doing? 402 00:20:24.327 --> 00:20:25.487 Yeah. 403 00:20:25.527 --> 00:20:27.588 Have you ever seen National Lampoon's Vacation? 404 00:20:27.648 --> 00:20:28.168 It's like that. 405 00:20:28.228 --> 00:20:29.309 Oh, hell yeah. 406 00:20:29.349 --> 00:20:30.629 Several times. 407 00:20:30.649 --> 00:20:32.390 Going to Wally World, Teej. 408 00:20:33.853 --> 00:20:34.333 Yeah. 409 00:20:34.353 --> 00:20:35.954 There's like five. 410 00:20:36.175 --> 00:20:37.956 We're going to force him to ride rides with us. 411 00:20:37.996 --> 00:20:38.296 Okay. 412 00:20:40.318 --> 00:20:43.760 So we literally have nothing to talk about on the standup. 413 00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:44.721 We're done. 414 00:20:44.981 --> 00:20:46.082 We finished. 415 00:20:46.702 --> 00:20:47.142 That was it. 416 00:20:47.603 --> 00:20:47.883 Right. 417 00:20:48.163 --> 00:20:50.204 I think we're done. 418 00:20:50.345 --> 00:20:51.185 I had some more to say. 419 00:20:51.325 --> 00:20:51.585 False. 420 00:20:51.605 --> 00:20:51.846 Yeah. 421 00:20:51.886 --> 00:20:52.746 First time also has other questions. 422 00:20:52.766 --> 00:20:53.927 Can we do more on that? 423 00:20:54.007 --> 00:20:55.168 And then not only that. 424 00:20:55.528 --> 00:20:56.109 More on that. 425 00:20:56.289 --> 00:20:56.809 Casey. 426 00:20:58.490 --> 00:20:59.811 But I don't know if you know this here, Holm. 427 00:20:59.851 --> 00:21:03.233 I mean, it's very difficult to do this switching back and forth. 428 00:21:03.553 --> 00:21:06.615 But if we jump in here, we also have this topic. 429 00:21:06.735 --> 00:21:07.975 Is vibe coding a game? 430 00:21:08.376 --> 00:21:08.756 A game. 431 00:21:09.076 --> 00:21:11.277 I mean, it's definitely an activity, right? 432 00:21:11.457 --> 00:21:20.982 And if you look back again, for those who don't know gaming history, which is apparently everyone, the even extremely. 433 00:21:21.122 --> 00:21:23.304 I can see how far you looked down on me just then. 434 00:21:23.404 --> 00:21:25.465 That was like the first I've ever seen you look down. 435 00:21:25.485 --> 00:21:25.725 Yeah. 436 00:21:26.025 --> 00:21:33.890 I can't even like I don't know where you are relative to me in the like panel of people here, but I would look straight down if you were. 437 00:21:34.430 --> 00:21:35.791 That's where I am for me right now. 438 00:21:36.351 --> 00:21:37.272 Like the Brady Bunch. 439 00:21:37.512 --> 00:21:38.112 Oh, man. 440 00:21:38.252 --> 00:21:39.613 Like this. 441 00:21:39.633 --> 00:21:41.594 We have to have a Brady Bunch intro. 442 00:21:41.874 --> 00:21:42.395 What are we doing? 443 00:21:42.535 --> 00:21:45.797 So just to put some icing on that particular cake. 444 00:21:46.697 --> 00:21:56.680 As early as like the C64 era, so we're talking like early 80s, there was a game shipped called Gary Kitchen's Game Maker. 445 00:21:57.120 --> 00:22:01.182 And Gary Kitchen was the guy who made like Pitfall, if you've ever heard of that game. 446 00:22:02.242 --> 00:22:03.443 I did, yes. 447 00:22:04.403 --> 00:22:08.884 There's probably one or two other notable games by him too, but they're escaping my memory right now. 448 00:22:08.924 --> 00:22:10.365 But obviously Pitfall is a pretty big one. 449 00:22:12.063 --> 00:22:19.646 And he shipped a game called Game Maker, which is literally just a set of tools you can use that make a game that you can play. 450 00:22:19.746 --> 00:22:26.529 And it was literally like the precursor to something like actual Game Maker or Unity. 451 00:22:27.390 --> 00:22:29.130 Go look it up if you've never seen it before. 452 00:22:29.670 --> 00:22:30.771 Running on a C64 in 64K of memory. 453 00:22:30.851 --> 00:22:30.971 Dang. 454 00:22:31.091 --> 00:22:31.251 Dang. 455 00:22:33.732 --> 00:22:37.175 And you could make little sprites and like a little sprite editor. 456 00:22:37.496 --> 00:22:40.399 You could make little sounds and like a sound editor. 457 00:22:40.919 --> 00:22:44.422 And you could, you know, put in some simple logic. 458 00:22:44.583 --> 00:22:46.625 Literally all of this was done with a joystick. 459 00:22:46.705 --> 00:22:49.547 Like it was like you'd pick little logic statements and stuff like that. 460 00:22:50.148 --> 00:22:50.989 And then you made a game. 461 00:22:53.008 --> 00:22:55.050 Some people like to do this. 462 00:22:55.350 --> 00:22:57.271 It's some percentage of the population. 463 00:22:57.691 --> 00:22:59.032 It's not the majority. 464 00:22:59.453 --> 00:23:02.935 Most people would rather experience a game made by somebody else. 465 00:23:03.475 --> 00:23:05.056 It doesn't really matter how easy it is. 466 00:23:05.737 --> 00:23:09.559 Some people will like that kind of game quote, and some people won't. 467 00:23:09.679 --> 00:23:11.621 And that probably won't change with AI. 468 00:23:12.161 --> 00:23:14.062 You said this is with C64, right? 469 00:23:14.503 --> 00:23:15.483 Yeah. 470 00:23:16.144 --> 00:23:19.426 How was there a C64 when C was created in 1992 slash 1993 at Bell Laboratories? 471 00:23:21.593 --> 00:23:21.813 Right. 472 00:23:22.174 --> 00:23:22.414 Yeah. 473 00:23:22.554 --> 00:23:23.895 I mean, it doesn't seem possible. 474 00:23:24.195 --> 00:23:24.776 Checkmate. 475 00:23:24.796 --> 00:23:25.396 There's C99. 476 00:23:25.436 --> 00:23:26.277 I totally get that. 477 00:23:26.297 --> 00:23:28.118 But C64, I think you just made that up. 478 00:23:28.459 --> 00:23:29.519 Shouldn't it be called the Algon. 479 00:23:29.540 --> 00:23:30.600 Well, there's C17. 480 00:23:30.921 --> 00:23:31.181 Yeah. 481 00:23:31.461 --> 00:23:31.861 Got him. 482 00:23:32.302 --> 00:23:33.783 There's C17. 483 00:23:34.043 --> 00:23:36.285 Yes, there's always... That's the thing is there's always been... 484 00:23:36.305 --> 00:23:37.846 Okay, fun side quest. 485 00:23:38.187 --> 00:23:42.530 There's this game called Graal or Graal, G-R-A-A-L, online. 486 00:23:42.790 --> 00:23:44.071 And it was this game that was... 487 00:23:44.492 --> 00:23:49.396 I think it even got threatened to be sued, but it had the original Zelda Super Nintendo... 488 00:23:49.976 --> 00:24:11.554 art in it if I'm not mistaken or it had some level of that and it was originally uh coined as like Zelda online this was in like 1997 and then it had to be renamed and in it there was a level editor where you could actually learn to do some basic programming and all that and that's actually how I got started programming was through something like that but almost nobody I knew who played it touched 489 00:24:12.194 --> 00:24:14.676 the pro of the game, the, the level editor. 490 00:24:14.736 --> 00:24:18.800 So you could make anything you wanted and you could program things, but nobody actually does it. 491 00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:22.804 And so when I hear like, will vibe coding games be a game? 492 00:24:23.164 --> 00:24:23.324 Sure. 493 00:24:23.384 --> 00:24:33.113 I mean, you could, you could argue that it will be a game and maybe it'll be made in such a way that things like fortnight, you could just sit with your friends, jump on your microphone and be like, okay, fortnight, I want you to make us this kind of level because we're going to want to battle in it. 494 00:24:33.173 --> 00:24:35.735 And it's going to be like, and boom, you're now playing it. 495 00:24:35.755 --> 00:24:35.896 Right. 496 00:24:35.916 --> 00:24:38.078 And so it's like, is vibe coding a game, actually a game. 497 00:24:38.738 --> 00:24:39.558 I don't think it's necessary. 498 00:24:39.578 --> 00:24:45.620 I think it'd be, it's just like a condition into making an experience in an already established game at best. 499 00:24:46.260 --> 00:24:51.022 I'm just doubting that people or the general population is going to be like, Oh, you know what? 500 00:24:51.122 --> 00:24:52.522 I don't want to play games. 501 00:24:53.362 --> 00:24:55.143 I want to go and vibe code games. 502 00:24:55.183 --> 00:24:58.004 Cause that's what everybody's going to do because it's cheap and fun. 503 00:24:58.044 --> 00:25:00.544 And it's going to be, it's just like, we're all going to have a great time. 504 00:25:01.405 --> 00:25:01.925 Is it cheap? 505 00:25:01.945 --> 00:25:02.025 Hmm. 506 00:25:02.925 --> 00:25:10.587 And by the way, that little side story with Grawl, I went to an event and he runs like this high school hack club, a big one that was at OpenSauce. 507 00:25:10.927 --> 00:25:16.008 And the person who helps run it, he learned how to program using Grawl in 2008. 508 00:25:17.088 --> 00:25:18.888 And I learned how to do it in 1998. 509 00:25:19.408 --> 00:25:22.029 Same game, same level editor, slightly different. 510 00:25:22.369 --> 00:25:26.790 And it was like one of like 300 people in the world who learned how to program from that one game. 511 00:25:26.830 --> 00:25:27.910 And we high fived together. 512 00:25:28.350 --> 00:25:28.710 It was great. 513 00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:29.771 I was four. 514 00:25:30.071 --> 00:25:31.231 I'm playing Grawl right now. 515 00:25:32.431 --> 00:25:54.340 you are oh yeah apparently you can play on the web i'm playing right now i think it's still alive if i'm not mistaken yeah there there was 1500 graalians online when i just checked really i don't even know what i'm doing but i'm playing this means people can still learn to program even today with crawl they can the only acceptable form of learning how to program 516 00:25:55.923 --> 00:25:58.324 Trash, I'm interested in your thoughts. 517 00:25:58.344 --> 00:26:00.885 Have you attempted to vibe code any games? 518 00:26:01.205 --> 00:26:06.708 I actually have attempted to vibe code like 20 games, like behind the scenes. 519 00:26:06.768 --> 00:26:07.548 I try all the time. 520 00:26:07.568 --> 00:26:09.209 So I'm like, I have an idea for a game while I'm cooking. 521 00:26:09.229 --> 00:26:10.229 I'm like, this is such a good game. 522 00:26:10.269 --> 00:26:12.350 So actually I have one game I was to tell you about. 523 00:26:12.370 --> 00:26:15.111 I tried to do this dig simulator where we could race. 524 00:26:15.151 --> 00:26:15.971 Wait, can you say that again? 525 00:26:16.151 --> 00:26:16.752 What'd you just say? 526 00:26:17.953 --> 00:26:20.256 I tried to vibe code a game called Dig Simulator. 527 00:26:20.556 --> 00:26:22.138 Okay, I thought you said Dig Simulator. 528 00:26:22.679 --> 00:26:24.621 Oh, I could do that too. 529 00:26:24.721 --> 00:26:25.442 Maybe I did that. 530 00:26:25.722 --> 00:26:28.426 So just imagine us for... That's called x.com. 531 00:26:28.446 --> 00:26:28.766 Yeah. 532 00:26:28.806 --> 00:26:31.550 I thought it was his receipts app. 533 00:26:31.890 --> 00:26:32.371 I mean, that's... 534 00:26:32.491 --> 00:26:33.872 That's the other one. 535 00:26:34.012 --> 00:26:35.033 So hold on, time out. 536 00:26:35.093 --> 00:26:35.953 I want to tell you about this. 537 00:26:35.973 --> 00:26:36.854 This is a great idea. 538 00:26:36.894 --> 00:26:37.635 Yeah, go trash, go. 539 00:26:37.775 --> 00:26:38.595 I'm so interested. 540 00:26:38.615 --> 00:26:41.517 So all four of us basically are sitting in a virtual sandbox. 541 00:26:41.657 --> 00:26:44.099 We all get to pick our tools like a fork or a spoon. 542 00:26:44.139 --> 00:26:49.063 And we all have to dig to like some specific threshold to see who can get there the fastest kind of thing. 543 00:26:49.343 --> 00:26:51.524 So I was trying to make this game have like a floating spoon and stuff. 544 00:26:52.005 --> 00:26:54.707 It is so hard to get the graphics right with LLM. 545 00:26:54.727 --> 00:26:55.587 So that's like my current. 546 00:26:55.607 --> 00:26:57.369 So the functionality is typically fine. 547 00:26:58.109 --> 00:27:01.191 but it's like the look of it that I just can't get good. 548 00:27:01.311 --> 00:27:05.474 Like if you look at all the AI games, they all kind of look the same more or less. 549 00:27:05.834 --> 00:27:07.576 Some of them look really good, which I don't actually believe. 550 00:27:07.616 --> 00:27:09.397 Have you tried hooking up Blender? 551 00:27:09.577 --> 00:27:22.366 And then like the only way I've made it look any remotely okay is I hook up some sort of graphical program and I say, hey, you build it and then you have Fable rate you as a AAA harsh game critic. 552 00:27:22.906 --> 00:27:23.267 Yeah. 553 00:27:24.127 --> 00:27:26.369 Do you actually prompt it like that? 554 00:27:26.449 --> 00:27:27.570 Yes. 555 00:27:27.610 --> 00:27:29.972 You are a triple A CEO. 556 00:27:30.052 --> 00:27:30.312 Yes. 557 00:27:30.432 --> 00:27:34.415 I'll be like, you rate the models on a scale of zero to 10, 10 being triple A great. 558 00:27:34.815 --> 00:27:39.218 And you will not stop until you get a 10 out of 10 from the harsh triple A game critic. 559 00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:44.022 And it will generally actually get like after like five hours, you'll get something that looks better. 560 00:27:44.302 --> 00:27:46.244 But I've also had it to wear it like a golfer. 561 00:27:46.344 --> 00:27:47.224 I made a golfing game. 562 00:27:47.585 --> 00:27:49.646 Impossible to get it to stand above the ball. 563 00:27:49.946 --> 00:27:50.327 It's always. 564 00:27:50.367 --> 00:27:51.948 Prime, I have to stop you. 565 00:27:52.328 --> 00:27:53.129 I have to stop you. 566 00:27:53.669 --> 00:27:55.110 You did not make a golfing game. 567 00:27:55.550 --> 00:27:59.572 You made a level editor for a golfing game and did not finish the game. 568 00:28:00.012 --> 00:28:03.333 I need that to be out there and in the world. 569 00:28:03.353 --> 00:28:03.873 That's what happened. 570 00:28:03.893 --> 00:28:08.655 I don't know if you know this, but there's been people outside of our little friend group that have played our games. 571 00:28:08.775 --> 00:28:14.538 And the only game people loved was my game because you could make your own golf levels and then play your own golf levels. 572 00:28:15.617 --> 00:28:18.098 That's just not true because Josh and his family are playing. 573 00:28:18.439 --> 00:28:19.339 His kids don't count. 574 00:28:19.379 --> 00:28:20.560 They're harsh critics, okay? 575 00:28:20.580 --> 00:28:25.162 They made fun of us and said they could vibe code better than us when they watched The Tower, okay? 576 00:28:25.323 --> 00:28:26.883 All right. 577 00:28:27.204 --> 00:28:27.744 Anyway, sorry. 578 00:28:28.424 --> 00:28:29.145 Keep going, Trash. 579 00:28:29.225 --> 00:28:30.245 Trash, I want to hear more about your game. 580 00:28:30.265 --> 00:28:31.246 I don't even know where I was going with it. 581 00:28:31.266 --> 00:28:32.307 I don't even know where I was going with it. 582 00:28:32.327 --> 00:28:33.547 I want to hear more about the games you're making. 583 00:28:33.567 --> 00:28:34.608 Your game ideas are great. 584 00:28:35.248 --> 00:28:36.109 They are pretty good. 585 00:28:36.249 --> 00:28:37.189 Well, I try to make it a way. 586 00:28:37.209 --> 00:28:37.450 Sorry. 587 00:28:39.207 --> 00:28:39.829 They are pretty good. 588 00:28:40.450 --> 00:28:42.936 You had to consider that for a little while, and then you were like, you know what? 589 00:28:42.956 --> 00:28:43.597 Yeah, they are. 590 00:28:43.617 --> 00:28:43.958 You know what? 591 00:28:43.978 --> 00:28:44.639 Prime's right about something. 592 00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:46.203 Well, because it's like, I try to think about games I would play. 593 00:28:46.223 --> 00:28:48.989 And the thing he's right about is how good my game ideas are. 594 00:28:49.722 --> 00:28:53.223 I don't want to give you guys all the special sauce because now I need to do the blender thing. 595 00:28:53.423 --> 00:28:56.044 And then maybe the digging game will actually be a real thing. 596 00:28:56.124 --> 00:28:57.804 Because I was going to make it for some hackathon. 597 00:28:57.824 --> 00:28:59.845 So I started making all these random games. 598 00:29:00.265 --> 00:29:02.465 You started cheating. 599 00:29:03.525 --> 00:29:06.126 You're building it for a hackathon, but you're just building it all beforehand. 600 00:29:06.146 --> 00:29:07.626 That's literally cheating trash. 601 00:29:07.907 --> 00:29:09.127 The definition of cheating trash. 602 00:29:09.207 --> 00:29:11.327 I was going to do it for a hackathon, and then clearly I didn't. 603 00:29:11.647 --> 00:29:13.168 And then I just started building it myself. 604 00:29:13.188 --> 00:29:15.048 Because I didn't make it in time. 605 00:29:15.428 --> 00:29:16.729 Give us one more idea. 606 00:29:16.809 --> 00:29:17.689 Give us one more idea. 607 00:29:17.849 --> 00:29:22.959 Well, I was just making my own, like, so, like, my kids love Pokemon, so I was just making my own version of Pokemon. 608 00:29:22.979 --> 00:29:23.860 So, like, a variation. 609 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.341 Oh, sick. 610 00:29:24.421 --> 00:29:24.622 Okay. 611 00:29:24.802 --> 00:29:25.964 It actually looks pretty good. 612 00:29:26.900 --> 00:29:32.806 I'm not gonna show you it's not ready yet, but I'm making my own Game Boy version, okay? 613 00:29:33.406 --> 00:29:33.727 Okay? 614 00:29:34.107 --> 00:29:35.188 Also- I'm sorry for laughing. 615 00:29:35.208 --> 00:29:35.588 Sick. 616 00:29:35.608 --> 00:29:36.849 Why are you laughing at me? 617 00:29:37.030 --> 00:29:38.631 I'm excited, Trash. 618 00:29:38.731 --> 00:29:39.572 I'm both angry. 619 00:29:39.592 --> 00:29:45.618 Luckily, the response of every person I've ever met making a vibe-coded game is like, oh, I'm making it, it's awesome. 620 00:29:45.738 --> 00:29:47.219 I can't show you yet, it's not ready. 621 00:29:47.580 --> 00:29:49.021 It's just like, I've heard that phrase. 622 00:29:49.041 --> 00:29:50.442 Hey, Prime, have some more Dorya. 623 00:29:51.523 --> 00:29:54.644 I already showed Gordoria, okay, tough guy? 624 00:29:54.944 --> 00:29:55.384 That's true. 625 00:29:55.584 --> 00:29:57.825 Did you ever finish the game? 626 00:29:58.325 --> 00:30:01.866 Yeah, at this point, I would call it like effectively feature complete. 627 00:30:02.386 --> 00:30:03.506 I just have to make it fun now. 628 00:30:03.586 --> 00:30:05.847 Like I have to think about- Just to make it fun? 629 00:30:05.907 --> 00:30:08.048 What the fuck does that mean? 630 00:30:08.128 --> 00:30:10.368 Okay, let me give you an example. 631 00:30:10.408 --> 00:30:13.089 That's not how games work. 632 00:30:13.189 --> 00:30:14.789 I'm done, but it's not fun. 633 00:30:15.070 --> 00:30:16.230 It's not fun. 634 00:30:16.390 --> 00:30:18.170 Hold your legendary tongue, Wench. 635 00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:19.911 Let me tell you about this, okay? 636 00:30:20.471 --> 00:30:25.676 Uh, first off making a game in which has cards and all that and being properly balanced. 637 00:30:25.897 --> 00:30:40.212 That's like 99% of the work making the actual tower defense, putting towers down, having them level up, choosing all the different types of upgrades, all that that's easy, but making it so that there's actually like feeling like risk reward suspense, like actual, like, 638 00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:46.044 That takes no programming experience effectively, but is infinity hard. 639 00:30:46.064 --> 00:30:47.105 That is actually the hard part. 640 00:30:47.405 --> 00:30:49.867 I have a game, it's just not fun yet. 641 00:30:50.408 --> 00:30:54.752 Because I don't know how- Prime, Prime, Prime, we typically call that an engine, not a game. 642 00:30:54.952 --> 00:30:56.953 The game is the part you're calling hard. 643 00:30:57.814 --> 00:30:59.375 I thought it was, yeah, I thought design. 644 00:30:59.696 --> 00:31:00.917 I'm stuck on game design. 645 00:31:01.137 --> 00:31:02.418 That's like, that's the harder. 646 00:31:02.438 --> 00:31:04.760 Yeah, that's the thing that's the game, right? 647 00:31:04.820 --> 00:31:07.182 The rest of it is the engine for the game. 648 00:31:07.342 --> 00:31:11.345 Okay, well, mine is so crappy, I don't know what the difference between an engine and a game is Casey. 649 00:31:11.505 --> 00:31:13.807 The game is very much not done yet, right? 650 00:31:13.867 --> 00:31:16.009 Okay, so Pram literally did what I did. 651 00:31:16.029 --> 00:31:16.769 He did, he did. 652 00:31:16.789 --> 00:31:18.491 You can play it, but it's not fun yet. 653 00:31:18.631 --> 00:31:19.852 Yeah, exactly. 654 00:31:19.872 --> 00:31:20.993 It's so funny. 655 00:31:21.533 --> 00:31:23.415 It's not funny, but you're good. 656 00:31:23.435 --> 00:31:25.296 You did the part that I do, Prime. 657 00:31:25.336 --> 00:31:27.178 You did the part that I typically do. 658 00:31:27.558 --> 00:31:31.921 And you can't do the part that I also can't do, which is how to design the game. 659 00:31:31.961 --> 00:31:32.842 I actually need help. 660 00:31:32.982 --> 00:31:35.885 I need somebody that's good at game design because I have it fully working. 661 00:31:35.925 --> 00:31:37.186 I have like every hook you need. 662 00:31:37.206 --> 00:31:38.166 You can hook into anywhere. 663 00:31:38.567 --> 00:31:41.209 Oh, a projectile lands and it's a critical. 664 00:31:41.489 --> 00:31:42.390 Boom, you have a callback. 665 00:31:42.410 --> 00:31:44.231 You can mutate the stats to like do stuff. 666 00:31:44.251 --> 00:31:44.952 You can count. 667 00:31:44.972 --> 00:31:46.493 You can do all like you can add. 668 00:31:46.653 --> 00:31:48.695 Wow, that sounds really fun. 669 00:31:51.326 --> 00:31:53.827 Well, Nick Dobbs would love this game. 670 00:31:53.927 --> 00:31:56.048 There's callbacks that he can hook into. 671 00:31:56.129 --> 00:31:57.529 So he'd be like, that's the game. 672 00:31:57.769 --> 00:32:00.711 That's the game of the future is you hook into callbacks. 673 00:32:00.751 --> 00:32:01.551 Great point. 674 00:32:01.571 --> 00:32:04.233 Set reply with the source code to it. 675 00:32:04.253 --> 00:32:05.413 But that means you can do anything now. 676 00:32:05.433 --> 00:32:06.354 You can send it to this guy. 677 00:32:06.414 --> 00:32:07.314 Effectively, I put Fortnite. 678 00:32:07.334 --> 00:32:08.235 Mom, we got callbacks. 679 00:32:08.835 --> 00:32:10.097 Yeah, it's all callbacks, baby. 680 00:32:10.297 --> 00:32:10.878 It's good. 681 00:32:11.579 --> 00:32:19.469 I know we're joking here, but just to put a finer point on it, if you can do anything, that's just further evidence that there isn't a game. 682 00:32:19.550 --> 00:32:22.614 A game is the absence of all the things that you can't do. 683 00:32:22.934 --> 00:32:24.917 It's carving out exactly the space. 684 00:32:25.277 --> 00:32:31.380 That's like, this is the set of things that makes this like beautiful organic interaction. 685 00:32:31.761 --> 00:32:40.005 That's like both fun to do in the small and immediately like easy to grab onto, but sort of infinitely complex. 686 00:32:40.025 --> 00:32:45.688 So you can just keep spending time thinking more about it and learning more about how it works and coming up with strategies and so on. 687 00:32:45.708 --> 00:32:45.908 Right. 688 00:32:45.948 --> 00:32:48.450 That's why my digging game is going to be a number one hit. 689 00:32:49.255 --> 00:32:49.375 Okay. 690 00:32:49.395 --> 00:32:50.516 Your digging game is Friendship Slop. 691 00:32:50.556 --> 00:32:52.197 I'm not sure how that followed, but okay. 692 00:32:53.018 --> 00:32:54.839 Your game is Friendship Slop, Trash. 693 00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:57.261 His game did sound like Friendship Slop. 694 00:32:57.361 --> 00:32:59.183 Imagine we all had a fork. 695 00:32:59.223 --> 00:33:01.304 We had five minutes to dig as much as we could with a fork. 696 00:33:01.324 --> 00:33:02.645 You can do different strategies. 697 00:33:02.665 --> 00:33:03.606 You can scoop. 698 00:33:03.626 --> 00:33:04.226 Friends Slop. 699 00:33:04.326 --> 00:33:05.167 Like, how would you do it? 700 00:33:05.187 --> 00:33:06.568 That's a Friends Slop game right there. 701 00:33:06.948 --> 00:33:07.189 Yep. 702 00:33:07.889 --> 00:33:08.830 Yep, Friends Slop. 703 00:33:08.850 --> 00:33:11.472 Dude, what if this time next year I'm like a booleaner because of this game? 704 00:33:11.972 --> 00:33:12.293 Trash. 705 00:33:12.733 --> 00:33:13.373 If we... 706 00:33:13.513 --> 00:33:17.877 But there's ways for us, after we dig, we can turn what we've... 707 00:33:18.705 --> 00:33:46.672 dug out into money and buy bigger forks and do other stuff right you could you know because that wait hold wait tj are you suggesting we dig up like valuable items to the cell right like we dig up gold yep yeah right and then we can get bigger stuff and eventually you can get all the way up to like bucket wheel excavator you know what i'm saying and we're just out there operating bucket wheel excavators one of the largest machines on earth and that would be fun trash now we're talking see 708 00:33:47.690 --> 00:33:48.611 My game is fun. 709 00:33:49.072 --> 00:33:49.492 Tell him. 710 00:33:49.732 --> 00:33:54.838 I will say in prime's defense, he recognizes that he has a lot of work left on more Doria. 711 00:33:54.918 --> 00:33:58.041 So even though we're memeing right now, I will give him a little bit. 712 00:33:58.181 --> 00:33:59.763 I'll, I'll help him out a little bit here. 713 00:33:59.943 --> 00:34:00.784 We're, we're aware. 714 00:34:01.044 --> 00:34:04.067 We're aware of the status, but he's making progress. 715 00:34:04.347 --> 00:34:09.393 But, but, but at this point it is like, it is complete in some sense. 716 00:34:09.985 --> 00:34:17.710 It's just the hardest part, which this is my whole reason why I think people aren't going to vibe code their games is exactly this experience I'm having is why it's not fun. 717 00:34:18.090 --> 00:34:25.275 It's because you can make everything you need, like because if my game is rather simple, it's not like I need to be a legendary game programmer to make this work. 718 00:34:25.355 --> 00:34:28.237 I went and used flame graphs to see how much like time. 719 00:34:29.345 --> 00:34:35.430 60% of the time I'm waiting for the next game tech at 60 frames a second on a debug build. 720 00:34:35.911 --> 00:34:37.992 It's just like, I'm not even doing anything. 721 00:34:38.033 --> 00:34:39.454 It's just like hanging out there. 722 00:34:39.894 --> 00:34:40.855 Very, very simple. 723 00:34:41.415 --> 00:34:43.517 No talent needed to build this actual game. 724 00:34:44.098 --> 00:34:44.278 But. 725 00:34:45.709 --> 00:34:53.174 if I could vibe code that in one day, it would still take me two years to really figure out how to make the game actually like ultra fun. 726 00:34:53.494 --> 00:34:57.737 And so no one's going to build, like no one's going to, no one's going to do that. 727 00:34:57.797 --> 00:34:58.477 That's not fun. 728 00:34:58.617 --> 00:35:02.500 And so it has to be like a completely different type of game that this works on. 729 00:35:02.520 --> 00:35:05.722 But then how can you really make that a fun, consistent experience? 730 00:35:05.742 --> 00:35:09.044 Like how, cause even that would become boring because it becomes the same thing. 731 00:35:09.064 --> 00:35:14.568 Eventually it becomes so cookie cutter that these fun generative games are the same game, just with different skins on. 732 00:35:15.408 --> 00:35:16.229 I'm just I just don't buy it. 733 00:35:16.309 --> 00:35:16.689 I just don't. 734 00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:17.730 I currently don't buy it. 735 00:35:18.250 --> 00:35:20.792 I think the you are correct. 736 00:35:21.392 --> 00:35:35.142 And the different type of game part of it is like just imagine in your head that you have tick tock, but everything that comes up is like trash is thing where it's like dig with the fork real quick. 737 00:35:35.202 --> 00:35:38.004 And you dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig for like 15 seconds. 738 00:35:38.284 --> 00:35:40.086 And then you scroll to the next game. 739 00:35:40.866 --> 00:35:41.086 Right. 740 00:35:41.567 --> 00:35:47.711 It's not it's not actually something that's actually all that like doesn't have any longevity or whatever. 741 00:35:48.152 --> 00:35:54.416 And then those just kind of the algorithm ranks those everyone's vibe coded game that you can only really play for 30 seconds. 742 00:35:54.436 --> 00:35:56.458 But that's fine because it's the tick tock of games. 743 00:35:57.018 --> 00:35:58.339 That's what it will look like. 744 00:35:58.359 --> 00:35:58.679 Right. 745 00:35:58.699 --> 00:35:58.920 Right. 746 00:36:00.441 --> 00:36:05.806 It won't be like you said, because in order to the producing the thing is not the hard part. 747 00:36:05.826 --> 00:36:15.075 It was finding something new that's in a very rare space, which AIs kind of are uniquely bad at finding for you is is the hard part. 748 00:36:15.356 --> 00:36:20.421 But that's not necessarily what you would be building for this category in the short term. 749 00:36:20.921 --> 00:36:29.324 In the five-year horizon where you're just having these AI slop games, it would be more like a TikTok experience. 750 00:36:29.504 --> 00:36:40.447 And again, not taking over all of gaming, but it would be a platform that someone could maybe make money on because people would just do that and they just kind of scroll through that or whatever. 751 00:36:40.567 --> 00:36:58.309 you so what you're trying to tell me is that there is a there is a non-zero market for uh a mario party like friendship slop game in which people can stream together and play generative little one-off difficulties potentially and it'd be hard to expand beyond that 752 00:36:59.488 --> 00:37:02.771 Well, it's not so much I'm saying hard or easy to expand beyond. 753 00:37:02.891 --> 00:37:14.142 I'm more saying that the places where people are imagining that AI would somehow make some new category that's bigger or that's a different thing, that's a more complicated thing, we already built. 754 00:37:14.662 --> 00:37:15.503 Those things exist. 755 00:37:15.523 --> 00:37:16.424 They're like Fortnite. 756 00:37:16.444 --> 00:37:17.125 They're like whatever. 757 00:37:17.165 --> 00:37:18.106 We have them. 758 00:37:18.327 --> 00:37:18.968 They're out there. 759 00:37:19.268 --> 00:37:21.951 So you're not really creating a new category by using it. 760 00:37:22.292 --> 00:37:31.223 But there is a new category that you could see being created in the short term by this, which is just, yeah, WarioWare basically as a much better. 761 00:37:31.283 --> 00:37:55.357 bigger revenue stream like right now warioware does not capture much uh revenue by by volume right if you just looked at like warioware is this tiny little sliver in a gigantic game revenue pile you could see tiktok for gaming which is just warioware with ai generated slop as being a bigger revenue generator from advertising it wouldn't be because anyone would buy it because no one would buy any of this stuff 762 00:37:55.857 --> 00:37:59.680 But it's like it would be a significant thing, just like TikTok is, right? 763 00:37:59.820 --> 00:38:00.520 It makes money. 764 00:38:01.221 --> 00:38:01.601 I assume. 765 00:38:01.621 --> 00:38:02.141 I actually don't know. 766 00:38:02.802 --> 00:38:07.325 I don't know the market of TikTok, but I assume they make a significant money out of advertising or whatever. 767 00:38:07.993 --> 00:38:10.455 Now I just want to build this just so we can have competitions. 768 00:38:10.475 --> 00:38:13.577 Like when TJ's giving me lip and I'm like, I'm your boss. 769 00:38:13.637 --> 00:38:14.858 And he's like, no, I'm the boss. 770 00:38:14.878 --> 00:38:17.160 And I'm like, take it to the, take it to the court. 771 00:38:17.540 --> 00:38:19.422 And we jump on Tik TOK for gaming. 772 00:38:19.842 --> 00:38:23.024 We play three mini games and we determine who CEO that day. 773 00:38:23.525 --> 00:38:23.705 Yep. 774 00:38:24.085 --> 00:38:24.706 I do like that. 775 00:38:24.846 --> 00:38:30.370 I was thinking there's gotta be like, we're not that far away from being able to do something where it's Mario party. 776 00:38:30.410 --> 00:38:32.352 But then like when you set up, 777 00:38:33.430 --> 00:39:01.654 a party you can like type everybody types in like 10 different random things and then the ai just like smushes them together into like a bunch of random random mini games and you get surprised by like the games that come up and then what i would do is if we had multiplayer for this i would save which ones people liked and didn't like and then we could do some rlhf on this bad boy and then before you know it we could be inserting ads inside of those subtly and making a trillion do we have a billion dollar business right now just made a billion dollar idea and honestly these are so let's start the repo ideas 778 00:39:02.515 --> 00:39:11.387 trash i think i saw a black mirror about this trash here's the problem is that we're all gonna leave secretly making our own billion dollar company after this 779 00:39:12.641 --> 00:39:40.127 we're gonna be about 15 prompts in being like you're a horse it's not critic the thing is these are not like everyone who's already thought of this is my point like the game companies already know this right yeah they're all thinking of exactly what this would look like right now not us yeah oh you think zelnick ceo of take two that has managed to make hundreds of billions of dollars is smarter than me he only got like as a nepotism idiot i'm the smart guy right 780 00:39:40.787 --> 00:39:41.167 I know. 781 00:39:41.187 --> 00:39:41.728 It's true. 782 00:39:42.068 --> 00:39:43.769 We're the smart people on this podcast. 783 00:39:44.029 --> 00:39:45.470 Game developers don't know shit. 784 00:39:45.850 --> 00:39:46.530 They don't know shit. 785 00:39:46.550 --> 00:39:51.533 That's why people come here is for our really smart takes and knowledge. 786 00:39:52.133 --> 00:39:57.436 To be fair, there has also been some tragically bad games that cost hundreds of millions of dollars. 787 00:39:57.456 --> 00:39:59.617 So not all game developers are, in fact, good. 788 00:39:59.677 --> 00:40:00.438 That's true. 789 00:40:00.718 --> 00:40:18.001 that's true no and and that's why i'm saying this idea is not that good because i'm like everyone's already had it and they're not that bright guys it didn't do it better than me i'm gonna do it better that's why i'm gonna win i worked at netflix casey i have ideas okay okay okay okay okay 790 00:40:18.842 --> 00:40:35.753 Uh, the, the other thing I would point out is like, because we are so smart on this podcast, which I think we just demonstrated with all of these ideas, uh, where is our like premium subscription newsletter that costs like $2,000 a month that for like analysis or what it like, you know what I'm talking about? 791 00:40:35.773 --> 00:40:41.356 Like what are those like premium, like analyst newsletters that we're going to tell you like what's up kind of a thing. 792 00:40:41.837 --> 00:40:42.097 Right. 793 00:40:42.677 --> 00:40:43.598 Like, you know what I'm saying? 794 00:40:43.618 --> 00:40:44.118 Good idea. 795 00:40:44.899 --> 00:40:45.379 I like that. 796 00:40:45.419 --> 00:40:46.800 It's going to keep the ideas going. 797 00:40:47.597 --> 00:40:48.638 We need that. 798 00:40:48.658 --> 00:40:51.861 We need even more enhanced or something like that. 799 00:40:51.881 --> 00:40:56.725 Where we like AI generate like a thing that talks about the state of the market. 800 00:40:58.046 --> 00:41:01.829 Casey, do you want to market enhanced? 801 00:41:01.849 --> 00:41:04.612 Do you want to make a subcompany called software enhanced? 802 00:41:04.892 --> 00:41:05.112 Right. 803 00:41:05.132 --> 00:41:06.754 Where we talk about all of this. 804 00:41:06.774 --> 00:41:06.914 Yes. 805 00:41:07.414 --> 00:41:08.775 Yes, exactly. 806 00:41:09.615 --> 00:41:12.077 Like the Gartner hype cycle and things like that. 807 00:41:12.117 --> 00:41:13.258 Like all of that stuff. 808 00:41:13.518 --> 00:41:14.839 We need to be into that. 809 00:41:14.879 --> 00:41:17.260 Where's the stand-up hype cycle and things like that? 810 00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:23.484 And graphs, like those four sector graphs, which is where they just clearly just place dots wherever they wanted. 811 00:41:23.504 --> 00:41:25.426 There's no actual data. 812 00:41:25.646 --> 00:41:29.888 They just put dots where they think they should go on like some hypothetical axis. 813 00:41:30.088 --> 00:41:30.769 We could do that. 814 00:41:31.109 --> 00:41:31.910 We can make that graph. 815 00:41:31.930 --> 00:41:32.650 That's not true. 816 00:41:32.670 --> 00:41:35.112 Microsoft is leading innovation, Casey. 817 00:41:35.272 --> 00:41:35.692 Okay. 818 00:41:35.712 --> 00:41:37.193 Based on the Gartner graph, Microsoft, 819 00:41:37.353 --> 00:42:00.415 is out competing aws in ai innovation of course i mean i just i have to stop us really quick and just read an insane chat message that is like an off shoot of the tiktok for gaming idea which was just popular court this is from c17er a tiktok like experience where watchers get to decide the case that's just such an 820 00:42:02.543 --> 00:42:23.513 channels and voting on whether guilty or not guilty that's so insane i just had to surface it for everybody else so such a bad idea could get some air time love it it's such a bad idea i like it all right uh and c17 just got banned okay now the end all right oh man 821 00:42:24.095 --> 00:42:27.036 All right, so I think that that's effectively all we're going to talk about. 822 00:42:27.156 --> 00:42:28.056 I'm not going to lie to you, though. 823 00:42:28.156 --> 00:42:31.937 I do think there is really something to this, like, this TikTok of game thing. 824 00:42:32.637 --> 00:42:40.700 It's just that you have to purely make it so social that you have to, like, include Twitch chat as a part of it or all this. 825 00:42:40.720 --> 00:42:41.720 So you just really get... 826 00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:46.762 you know, a whole bunch of people playing it and, you know, experiencing, there could be something there. 827 00:42:46.822 --> 00:43:01.951 Exactly the same fallacy that the guy who said the tweet that gaming is dead right now, which is that, well, since I like doing things with Twitch chat and we do stuff together and it makes the experience fun, other people will do the same thing. 828 00:43:02.351 --> 00:43:02.791 Oh, I know. 829 00:43:03.011 --> 00:43:03.552 Don't worry. 830 00:43:03.712 --> 00:43:04.592 I understand that. 831 00:43:05.593 --> 00:43:06.773 I'm a fallacy machine. 832 00:43:07.914 --> 00:43:08.014 Yeah. 833 00:43:08.114 --> 00:43:08.414 Okay. 834 00:43:08.574 --> 00:43:08.914 That's good. 835 00:43:08.934 --> 00:43:09.615 I just want to make sure. 836 00:43:10.238 --> 00:43:18.523 I think the thing just like overall for this whole like vibe coding games thing, it is like I have fun doing it. 837 00:43:18.924 --> 00:43:19.744 Like I'm having fun. 838 00:43:19.784 --> 00:43:24.167 I'm making a few like I made a fun putt-putt game for our team and some other stuff. 839 00:43:24.207 --> 00:43:25.408 I'm working on a fishing game. 840 00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:28.282 Not Puppet Save the Zoo, though, sorry. 841 00:43:28.302 --> 00:43:29.383 Prime said your game sucks. 842 00:43:29.583 --> 00:43:30.504 Yeah, your game sucks. 843 00:43:30.725 --> 00:43:40.416 Yeah, that's because mine was in 3D, and he's like, the only Puppet games that are good are Stickman Golf, and then he made his, and he still couldn't get the physics right for the ball to go into the hole in a 2D game. 844 00:43:41.677 --> 00:43:43.800 2D games are extremely difficult physics, okay? 845 00:43:43.940 --> 00:43:45.342 Not like 3D games are easy. 846 00:43:45.382 --> 00:43:47.084 It's 2D games that are actually extremely difficult. 847 00:43:47.564 --> 00:43:47.885 Okay. 848 00:43:48.165 --> 00:43:48.486 So. 849 00:43:50.510 --> 00:43:52.594 Because you have one less D to work with, guys. 850 00:43:52.914 --> 00:43:56.782 Like, you're missing an entire D. How can you get the physics to work without that D? 851 00:43:56.802 --> 00:43:57.683 I'm not missing a D, Casey. 852 00:43:57.764 --> 00:43:58.164 Casey. 853 00:43:58.908 --> 00:43:59.128 Yeah. 854 00:43:59.668 --> 00:44:03.149 The D simulator as a trash was talking about earlier. 855 00:44:04.009 --> 00:44:05.469 I'll make it deal. 856 00:44:05.489 --> 00:44:12.371 But like, I recognize that I'm a kind of guy that enjoyed like tinkering with Neil of him and having fun on Linux, but like before LLMs. 857 00:44:12.531 --> 00:44:16.792 So, so it's like, it doesn't, it, I don't think it translates really at all. 858 00:44:16.912 --> 00:44:23.613 And people who like get this into their head are getting a little confused about what things they think are fun versus what thing everyone is fun. 859 00:44:24.093 --> 00:44:27.314 And it's like, I think that's really the, the big thing. 860 00:44:28.005 --> 00:44:48.520 for it and i would say gaming's probably not that i'm gonna go out there on a limb and i'm gonna throw it out there i'm gonna stake that it's not that um i you know me living in rapid city south dakota not known as a a luscious tech hub i have yet to meet one person that was like yo i like being on a computer so i 861 00:44:53.229 --> 00:44:59.474 Perhaps I'm in a bit of an echo chamber, but I just somehow doubt that all these people are going to be like, I'm going to make my own game now. 862 00:44:59.494 --> 00:45:01.356 What do they like to do? 863 00:45:03.638 --> 00:45:04.618 They like drinking. 864 00:45:04.779 --> 00:45:05.859 They like playing games. 865 00:45:05.879 --> 00:45:06.940 They like going out to eat. 866 00:45:06.980 --> 00:45:07.881 They like hiking. 867 00:45:09.002 --> 00:45:13.306 Nature stuff, touching grass, shooting things, fishing things, boating. 868 00:45:13.906 --> 00:45:19.871 When I was riding down the trail, a person came up on their horse and said to me, I like vibe coding. 869 00:45:22.636 --> 00:45:24.400 My agents are working right now. 870 00:45:24.501 --> 00:45:26.065 Do you know what my wife calls it? 871 00:45:26.085 --> 00:45:28.330 Dude, my wife walked into my office and went, no. 872 00:45:28.350 --> 00:45:29.212 Even my horse got an agent. 873 00:45:29.232 --> 00:45:30.034 Working on carrots. 874 00:45:31.113 --> 00:45:31.533 Oh, sorry. 875 00:45:31.633 --> 00:45:33.034 My stuff froze there for a second. 876 00:45:33.574 --> 00:45:35.314 What does your wife say? 877 00:45:35.354 --> 00:45:36.955 My wife walked in the other week. 878 00:45:37.315 --> 00:45:40.256 Maybe I told this story before, but she was like, are you jive coding? 879 00:45:41.016 --> 00:45:42.357 What? 880 00:45:42.857 --> 00:45:46.058 Because she heard the term on Instagram or something. 881 00:45:46.078 --> 00:45:47.439 She's like, is that jive coding? 882 00:45:47.499 --> 00:45:48.219 And I was like, oh my god. 883 00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:50.660 Why isn't there something called jive coding? 884 00:45:50.680 --> 00:45:52.140 A disco ball fell from the ceiling. 885 00:45:52.180 --> 00:45:53.261 I put on disco shoes. 886 00:45:53.341 --> 00:45:54.741 I was like, yeah. 887 00:45:54.761 --> 00:45:56.682 Why isn't there something called jive coding? 888 00:45:57.622 --> 00:46:00.203 Someone needs to make something called jive coding right now. 889 00:46:01.445 --> 00:46:02.146 It's a thing now. 890 00:46:02.526 --> 00:46:06.531 Yeah, just put some sunglasses, get some funky music going on, and you've got jive-coding. 891 00:46:06.551 --> 00:46:07.492 We jive-coding. 892 00:46:08.513 --> 00:46:09.174 What does it mean? 893 00:46:09.194 --> 00:46:09.875 I don't know. 894 00:46:10.396 --> 00:46:10.996 It's a feeling. 895 00:46:11.677 --> 00:46:12.819 It doesn't matter what it means. 896 00:46:12.899 --> 00:46:14.000 It's provocative. 897 00:46:14.180 --> 00:46:14.541 Okay. 898 00:46:17.221 --> 00:46:17.721 Great point. 899 00:46:17.801 --> 00:46:19.282 We're going to have to end this here. 900 00:46:19.342 --> 00:46:26.686 Thank you, everybody, for watching this stand up on is the future of gaming, making games, is friendship slop in there, all that fun stuff. 901 00:46:26.726 --> 00:46:28.567 I hopefully you learn some amazing things. 902 00:46:28.988 --> 00:46:30.248 And this is all for today. 903 00:46:30.328 --> 00:46:31.889 Everybody say goodbye. 904 00:46:31.909 --> 00:46:31.989 Bye. 905 00:46:32.930 --> 00:46:34.151 Bye. 906 00:46:34.251 --> 00:46:35.651 Boot up the day. 907 00:46:37.432 --> 00:46:40.394 Vibe code and errors on my screen. 908 00:46:41.875 --> 00:46:44.096 Terminal copy and hand.