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Do you own the influence that you have?

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Do you find it causes you to protect those who trust you?

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Welcome to this week's episode of Living Influence.

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Bill?

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Hi, Scott.

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How are you, brother?

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I'm doing well.

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Good.

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I'm doing well.

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It's good to be with you.

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Thank you.

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I agree.

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I like this topic.

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As we were planning out our conversation, it caused me to think about organizations.

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And I like the word organizations because in the root of the word organizations is organic.

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And so a company...

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is an organization that's organic.

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It's made up of people.

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Absolutely.

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And it's made up of people who relate with one another.

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Yep.

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So an organization is actually a collection of relationships.

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Yep.

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Well said.

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And people.

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Well said.

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And this concept of owning influence and providing protection is huge.

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Mm-hmm.

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To having an organization run well.

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Absolutely.

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Let's start with just the words owning influence.

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Yeah.

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Let's just start with those words.

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Good.

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The second word first.

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Each one of us every day has influence.

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We can try to avoid it, try to ignore it, or try to downplay it, but the truth is we have influence.

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Yes.

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And influence is best measured in the effect we have on others.

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Yeah, you could ask people...

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Do you know of people that trust you?

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Exactly.

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And I imagine people will go, well, yeah, there's a few.

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Right.

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And those are people that they influence.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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And we influence people just in general because we're part of the race.

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Yeah.

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I like to challenge leaders with these words.

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Do you have the courage to ask those you are influencing, how are you affecting them?

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Do you have the courage to ask those you are influencing, how are you affecting?

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How am I affecting you?

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How am I affecting you?

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Right.

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And I say that pretty sincerely because we can make all kinds of assumptions.

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Hey, I'm really doing well.

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My people love me.

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Well, have you ever asked them?

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Yeah.

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You know, you give them a paycheck and they'll honor you, but have you ever asked them?

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And I love to tell this story, Scott.

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I've done some work with leaders all over the world, but I had a large group of leaders in India.

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And so I made the statement one day, I'd like to ask you guys to imagine asking people, how am I affecting you?

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One of the major leaders of this whole thing, he went home to his wife and he asked her, how am I affecting you?

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And he thought he was going to get this elaborate, oh my gosh, I'm the best husband that ever lived kind of answer.

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And she didn't say anything.

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And he said, I was befuddled by that.

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So I asked her again.

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Bill said, I'm supposed to ask you, how am I affecting you?

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And then she started laughing.

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And I thought, this isn't going the way I thought it was going to go.

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What's going on?

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Why are you laughing?

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She said, after 27 years, you're finally asking me how you're affecting me?

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And then she made the magic statement.

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Are you sure you really want to know?

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Wow.

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Yeah, it's very powerful.

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And he said it was such a shock to him.

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He had this illusion.

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Yeah.

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But it wasn't her reality.

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And he said it was just for him and them.

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I don't know their culture that well, so I don't know how hard this really was within their culture.

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But he said for them, it ended up being the most refreshing experience they've had in their marriage.

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And I say that to a lot of leaders.

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Don't assume you understand the effect of your influence.

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But once you do get an answer, then own it.

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That's what I mean by owning influence.

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If I ask you, Scott, how am I affecting you?

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I must never ask that if I don't want your answer.

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I must never ask it.

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Because if I get your answer and it causes me to be defensive, I've lost my ability to influence you.

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Yeah.

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You'll never trust me again with that.

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Mm-hmm.

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Now, so I want to pause and say to us, I have influence.

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Am I willing to own the influence?

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I won't know until I have the courage to ask.

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And once I ask, am I willing to do something?

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Am I willing to understand the courage it takes for another person to be honest with me about my effect?

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Could I honor your courage?

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Could I humbly come into your presence and say to you, I really would like to know.

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Thank God if it's good, let's praise God together.

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But if there are issues, let's ask God for the wisdom and the courage to respond.

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Because there's a goal in mind.

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There's a goal in mind.

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I'm a leader.

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I'm a Christian leader.

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I love people.

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You know, I believe, Scott, that you and I as leaders have a responsibility to protect those we influence.

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I really do.

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I believe that.

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Yeah.

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I believe that as a father.

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I believe that as a husband.

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I believe that as a friend.

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I believe that as a leader of leaders.

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So what does it mean to protect another person?

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That's a great question.

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What it means, in my mind, is this.

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Let's please be mature enough to never be surprised that we have problems.

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Come on, stop it.

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Stop acting like no one has problems.

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What if my opportunity to protect you sounded like this?

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Scott, you're all screwed up.

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What are we going to do about that?

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What are you going to do about that?

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You're all screwed up.

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What are you going to do about that?

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What if it sounded like that?

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Or I'm really disappointed in you.

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You know, that's the fifth time you did that.

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Yeah.

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Or whatever.

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Whatever the language is where I point at you to make sure you understand how screwed up you are.

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Right.

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But what if I had a different posture?

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Okay.

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What if my posture was this?

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What if I literally would come over to you and stand by you and put my arm around you?

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And you and I made a decision, which, by the way, we have.

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We stand next to each other, and our problems are never between us.

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Yeah.

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That our problems are now in front of us.

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Mm-hmm.

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Now, the way we can best protect each other

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is to never let our weaknesses define us.

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Let our relationship define us and let our relationship deal with the limitations we have or the weaknesses expressed in ourselves.

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The best way I can offer protection is to say this to you.

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Scott, you know, you screwed up again.

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Listen to the magic words.

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What do you think we should do about this?

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Yeah.

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What do you think we should do about this?

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And I invite myself to come alongside you in your issue and protect you in your limitation.

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There's two levels of dynamics that I teach in organizations.

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One is, which we won't go into at all, but just learning to submit to each other's strengths.

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Right.

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The other dynamic, which is deeper and more difficult, is learning to protect each other's limitations.

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Yeah.

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Now, what happens is this.

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If I don't know I'm going to be protected, I will do everything to never disclose my limitations.

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Mm-hmm.

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But what will happen is they'll seep out in dysfunction.

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Yeah.

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So you'll know them anyway.

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Yeah.

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Now that I'm known, what are you going to do to me now that you know this is true about me?

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Are you going to scold me?

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Are you going to discard me?

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Are you going to get rid of me?

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What are you going to do?

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Or are you going to come alongside me?

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Yeah.

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Well, who does that?

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Well, I, by God's grace, God, have come alongside a lot of leaders.

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Yeah.

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I know I've told this story on the podcast before, but I've got to tell it again.

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I was helping a leader in another state, and I was meeting with his wife to discuss part of the process.

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And their son, their adult son, was in the same place in the restaurant.

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And he came to our table, and he, oh, I didn't know you were here.

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And he said, I got some friends I want to introduce you to, Bill.

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So he takes me over to his friend's table, and this is how he introduces me.

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Guys, this is Bill Thrall.

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You really don't want people to know you know him, because if you know him, it means you're really screwed up.

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Because he comes alongside screwed up people.

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And yet, what a compliment.

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Yeah.

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What a compliment.

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Yeah, that's how I knew you.

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It was a funny moment, but what a compliment.

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So here's the thing.

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I'm not surprised that individuals make bad choices.

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I'm not surprised that there are consequences often to the bad choices they make.

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I'm not naive.

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I also know that they agonize.

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in their choice.

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It isn't like they made a choice that don't care.

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They care.

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They just don't have to deal with it.

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I also know how important it is for them to have somebody who's willing to come alongside them in spite of what they've done.

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By the way, this is exactly how God deals with us.

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I know it's hard for people to understand this, but

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God said to us, I will never leave you or forsake you.

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And I teasingly say to a lot of audiences, that means that we have taken God to some pretty weird places, but he's never going to be away from us.

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Now, what that means is my behavior never defines my relationship with God, ever.

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My relationship with God is defined by God in my behalf.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, which is beautiful.

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Now, what if we acted and lived with each other, Scott, in that same context?

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Yeah.

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What if I could say, as a leader, I know I have an influence on people.

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I'd love that influence to be good.

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I'm willing for it to be challenged because I don't want to lose something, Scott.

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I don't want to lose the opportunity to come alongside people when they need me the most.

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Yeah.

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And when they need me the most is when I have the opportunity to provide for them some sense of protection.

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Yeah.

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Some sense that says...

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Charlie, you really did screw up.

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That's a big one.

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That's horrible.

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But I'm with you.

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Yeah.

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Now let's deal with what you've done.

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Yeah.

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Hear those key words?

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Let's deal with what you've done.

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So I have a project manager in our company.

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Yes.

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And this person nails the details.

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just nails them.

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Loose ends drive this person crazy.

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They get stressed out.

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And when they're stressed out, they're hacked out.

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They're not fun to be around when there's loose ends that aren't nailed to the ground.

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And so this person's projects...

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always are executed at the highest level.

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Wow.

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The questions are always answered, the things finish, but this person is also very black and white.

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Mm-hmm.

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When this black and white person encounters gray areas, either left for that person by an estimator or caused by our customer, a general contractor, I mean, you know, storms happen.

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And bodies fly.

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And often you have to go in and kind of clean up.

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His mess.

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The mess that was made.

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Sure.

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Sure.

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But...

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Without that thing that causes them to go bonkers when everything's not nailed, they wouldn't be as amazing as they are at nailing the detail.

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So it's this area.

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Literally this strength and weakness.

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Right.

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It's not about me fixing the weakness.

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If I get this person okay with loose ends, they won't nail them like they do right now.

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Good for you.

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Right?

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Thank you.

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No, excellent.

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So sometimes in a company, it's about coming alongside, but it's also about protecting that person.

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They've got a real strength, and that strength has a consequence that sometimes can cause problems.

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Good for you.

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Well said, Scott.

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But you protect the problems.

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Exactly.

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You know, the estimator that gets chewed out for leaving a loose end, you go, do you realize the stress that this person is under and we give this person a little grace?

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The person with the strength that can cause the issue, they have come to know that's true.

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And it's softened them.

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I totally agree.

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And they're growing.

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I don't think it'll ever be gone.

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No.

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Because it's what makes the person strong.

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Good for you.

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So you're describing it exceptionally well, in my opinion.

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So what do we do?

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Do you then go in, like you just said?

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Okay, we've got to minimize his reactions at the price of his excellence.

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Probably not.

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Probably what you do is what you're doing.

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And I would just add this caveat.

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He's already experiencing it.

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And that is, he's already aware that you are aware.

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And that you are protecting him in spite of what you're aware of.

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That's kind of driving him crazy.

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He's going, how does Scott put up with me?

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Because I don't put up with anybody else.

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So that's a perfect example of offering protection.

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The only caveat I would have is this.

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I like to take that person to a neutral place.

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Outside the context where it happens.

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Yeah.

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Take them to a neutral place.

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Yeah.

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And in a neutral place, outside of the workplace, I don't care where that is, but in a neutral place, for their sake, rehearse with them what they experienced.

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Yeah.

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If you do— Because?

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Because what happens is—

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They don't know how to correct what they're doing.

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They've tried 8,422 times.

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Yeah.

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And we know that.

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What you're doing when you bring them to a neutral place is you're saying to them, there is a way for us to learn things that are hard.

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One of the things we learn things that are hard is we have permission, those are key words, to rehearse together what you experience when it happens.

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Remember what I didn't just say, for you to rehearse what you did, I didn't say that.

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I didn't say to you to rehearse how Charlie reacted.

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What I said was, for us to rehearse what you experienced when it happened.

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Because it's deep in his own experience where the correction has to take place, not in the behavior.

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Yeah, and so that helps them.

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Oh, phenomenally.

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In growing.

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Phenomenally.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Because they don't know how to rehearse that with somebody that's safe.

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They don't know how.

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Yeah.

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And they don't even know there is somebody safe.

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Yeah.

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So that's why I've learned that.

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Just take them out of the context.

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So as a pastor, when I'd be dealing with a person, I'd always say to them, I don't want to meet you at the church.

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Let's go meet at this place.

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So as we practice this, great example, Scott.

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As we practice this, only our influence were committed to coming alongside others for the benefit of protecting them in their limitations.

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and you just described it, in a way that they could still have the blessing of their strengths so that their limitations do not define them.

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Let's not be shocked by people's inability to self-correct.

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When did that become the solution?

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That's never the solution.

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Never.

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I believe in my heart of hearts that God designed us for each other.

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I believe that.

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And I need you, Scott.

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And I need others in my life.

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And I'd like others to need me in their life.

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I'd love to be able to keep practicing the process of protection for my benefit and for the benefit of everyone I influence.

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Once again, thanks for watching Living Influence.

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Be remiss if I didn't tell you we've got a conference coming up in Denver that you would love to attend if you're

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involved in leadership and business.

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You find the details about that on livinginfluenceleadership.com.

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Hey, we hope to see you next week.

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We're going to start a series next week on family and kids.

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Yeah, we are.

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And so we're excited about that.

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We hope to see you then.

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Take care.

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Thanks for listening to Living Influence.

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We appreciate you.

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Just a call to action.

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We would love it if you would share our podcast with one or two people this week.

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Thanks again.