WEBVTT

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a listener production.

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I'm Bec Judd.

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And I'm Jess Roberts.

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And we're done with the smoke and mirrors.

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Fainish shares honest stories about what it takes to look amazing because we did not wake up like this.

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And you should know the stuff that we chat about on this podcast is based on our personal experiences.

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We're sharing it for your entertainment.

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It's definitely not medical advice.

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And we'll always be clear with you when something is a paid endorsement.

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Please always chat with your qualified healthcare team before making any decisions about your health.

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Hey guys, it's Bec Judd and Jess Roberts and welcome to Vainish.

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We all know our chronological age, but could epigenetic testing offer another perspective on how we're ageing?

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We're joined by Dr. Jason Chan to unpack what these tests measure, what the results may tell us and the limitations to consider.

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So welcome to Vainish, Dr. Jason Chan.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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Jason, tell us your qualifications and what you're doing now.

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I'm a medical doctor.

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I started initially out as a GP probably some 32 years ago.

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Transitioned into sports medicine about 20 years ago.

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During that time, effectively, I've also done bariatrics, which is the medicine of weight loss for about 12 years.

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So very au fait with sort of what happens there.

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have largely done a lot of surgical assisting, but also been a team doctor for Melbourne Storm for about 10 years.

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I finished that up last year and took the opportunity to enter this world, which we'll be talking about soon, which we like to term performance medicine, because it's really very much about you being your best person.

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And part of that is the discussion we're about to have with regard to epigenomics and peptide talking.

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So you are the medical director and founder of PK27?

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That's correct, yes.

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And then why did you create this business?

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It's a really interesting thing.

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It started when I read a book to begin, and it was a book by a guy called David Sinclair.

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And David's effectively a genetic doctor, if you will.

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He's the professor of genetics at Harvard University and wrote a book called Lifespan.

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And...

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It became very, very interested in terms of how we otherwise saw things.

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And traditionally, we've sort of, we all practice what we would like to term medicine 2.0 effectively, which is very much very disease driven.

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We treat disease.

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And while you're in that process of breaking, we sort of find we don't really have much to do in terms of what you feel.

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I found this book really interesting and it sort of got me thinking about epigenomics and genetic testing, which are similar sort of type products.

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And I came across this test, which was otherwise hoping to offer me what my epigenomic age was going to be.

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Which is a biological age?

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Which is a biological age as opposed to a chronological age.

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And I thought I looked okay.

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I did a little bit of exercise.

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Don't have the greatest sleep in the entire world, but I thought I'm going to come up really good.

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And at that time, I was 54 years of age.

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Mm-hmm.

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And when I did this test, I waited for this thing to come back from the States and it came back and told me I was 64.

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Wow.

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Fell over.

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It suggested that I didn't sleep enough and I probably sleep somewhere between four to five hours a day.

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Like me.

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Yeah.

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It says that I stress too much, which, you know, I work 70 hours a week sort of type scenario and it says I don't hydrate.

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And I would generally not have any water under any circumstance because that would mean you go to the hospital.

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the toilet.

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Yeah.

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Who's got time to piss?

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Yeah.

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Entirely, entirely.

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So I sort of looked at this and thought, oh, my goodness, this is actually a possible sort of, you know, way to otherwise look at things and change how I actually view myself in a sense.

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And so I went down this deep, dark hole.

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Mm-hmm.

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And when you go into the epigenomic world, you will then discover things like DNA.

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You'll discover gut microbiome.

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You'll discover blood panels with cortisols and the like and IGF-1s and lipoprotein A's and apolipoprotein A1s and B's.

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And if you know these words, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

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I don't know these words.

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What you're saying is all of these markers or give you a… All these biomarkers effectively.

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That's what they're called, aren't they?

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Correct.

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They're called biomarkers effectively.

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And so going to that world sort of maybe sort of feel like, okay, I think this is a really interesting thing.

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And it takes you into supplementations and peptides.

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And then you sort of start to talk amongst your group of friends.

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And they were sort of viewing the same type of thing and saying, hey, how can I do this?

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And so I said, well, listen, this is where I got some testing done.

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Why don't you do some testing?

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Yeah.

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And then all of a sudden you do it for two, three people because medicine's where you want to facilitate it because there's so much noise out there in terms of what is true, what is not true, and largely most of it is unknown as opposed to not true, that you need a level of safety to otherwise talk about this thing.

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So all of a sudden we start with a patient, like a formalized patient, and then it starts with two and three.

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Before you know, you sort of conceptually feel like maybe this could be an arm of my sports medicine practice.

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And then before you know it, it's larger and larger.

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And there are hundreds of people inquiring.

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And it almost seemed to occur coincidentally during a time when the peptide explosion has sort of happened in terms of there's so much noise around peptides.

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It's almost like every second person is asking me about them.

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And even socially now, unfortunately, it's probably more the nature of what people know what I do right now, that they'll ask about those type of circumstances.

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And for me, I love talking about peptides just purely from the basis that it begins a discussion.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think a lot of this has probably largely been also forced at the same time or begun because of COVID.

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I think we really as a population begin to question not so much authority, but we, yeah.

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Our health.

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Yeah.

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And how we can improve it and what's real and what's not real.

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And also how, for me, with my epigenetic testing, I just wanted to know how I was tracking as a mum of four, where I was going, what I needed to look out for, and if my –

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insides match my outsides because you know, Jess, we do everything from treatments, lasers, plastic surgery to look younger.

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I want my insides to match my outsides.

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Yeah.

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So for listeners who are completely new to this space, what actually is epigenetic testing and what kinds of insights may it provide about the relationship between lifestyle, environment,

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and how our genes behave.

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I know there's so much to this.

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Imagine you're talking to a 10-year-old.

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Yeah.

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And try and, yeah, simplify it, I guess, for our listeners because I know a lot of people are so keen to hear this, but their medical knowledge is, you know, the late person.

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And I understand, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Listen, I guess largely there's a difference between what is DNA epigenomics and what you would simply probably call a simple blood test, which blood tests in themselves are biomarkers themselves.

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So the best way to look at it is the DNA is almost like the book in the library.

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It tells you what's possible.

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It doesn't mean that it will happen.

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It tells you what's possible.

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Epigenomics in themselves, which are a series of biomarkers, which we use to express what your DNA otherwise is.

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So it basically tells you what's happening right now to you and will express what's possibly been happening over the past three to four months or thereabouts.

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But it's what decides how your DNA is expressed.

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So that you may have a gene for, let's say, for possibly developing cystic fibrosis or any other sort of formality, be that you're likely to have a sleep disturbance or you're likely to get pimples or anything like that.

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Your epigenomics ultimately, at the end of the day, will express those circumstances.

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And I think what sometimes people get, they hear these terms, methylation and all of those type of things.

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Methylations are part of epigenomics.

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It's just that you methylate part of the DNA to otherwise be expressed, if you will.

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And then, of course, then there's blood tests themselves, which we get.

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And while they represent elements of biomarkers, bloods will remark, generally the ones that we'll do in general practice or in medicine, will express what's happened.

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Yeah.

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They'll tell you the disease process.

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Yeah.

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So when we look at our biomarkers, we're otherwise looking to see whether we can predict disease processes.

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So bloods traditionally will be looking for what's broken.

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Epigenomics will look at what's breaking.

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What's breaking.

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DNA will tell you whether it's a possibility.

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So when we say DNA and what could be a possibility, are we thinking things like the BRCA gene for breast cancer?

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Correct.

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Correct.

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It doesn't mean you'll get it.

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Yeah, it's like you carry this.

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You carry this gene, yeah.

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Yeah, correct.

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Bowel cancer, yeah.

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Yeah.

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So if we knew that they were going to be expressed, then we'd do something about it.

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You would otherwise then remove the breast, you would remove bowel, you would do whatever in anticipation.

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But we almost intuitively know that if we clean up our lifestyles to decrease that risk,

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melanoma in your family, keep out of the sun.

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Sun, yeah.

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Otherwise, if we don't have the gene, we'll keep out of the sun, but maybe not as much as we should.

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Yeah.

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So it's all about risk stratification.

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It is.

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It is.

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Because I've done the DNA and it's given the DNA testing and it's told me like what I'm possibly could get in terms of cancers and stuff.

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But a lot of it does say like environmental factor, like you've got the gene, but the

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how it's going to really kickstart it is your diet because mine's bowel cancer.

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Do you carry that gene?

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I carry that gene and I've got polyps.

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Yeah, right.

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It was so interesting to have that gene.

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Confirmed.

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Confirmed.

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So I'm like I'm getting polyps, you know, and I'm going for top and tails like every 12 months.

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And I had pre-cancerous cells on one of my polyps.

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But then when it came up that, yes, it said not unlikely, it says likely to get bowel cancer, I was like, oh.

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I really need it.

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But then it said also environmental.

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So it's what I'm eating.

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So I've now got to look into that what do I eat properly to not get it.

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I'm just thinking about your Uber Eats orders.

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I still get McDonald's.

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Yeah.

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I just don't get it.

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Don't sue us McDonald's.

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Yeah, I only get it once or twice a week now, not five.

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I mean, these tests are really powerful.

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Yeah.

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And this is the difficult part because all of these testings, you can actually order yourself individually.

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And sometimes while knowledge is powerful, it can be used in wrong ways too, a bit like a gun, yeah?

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Yeah.

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It's a very powerful weapon to otherwise have, but in the wrong hands.

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it can be for bad as well as good, essentially.

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So with that, sorry to interrupt, with what Jess said that she carries that gene for bowel cancer, what would epigenetic testing, what would you look at in epigenetic testing to see if there's a higher possibility that she might get it?

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Like is it gut microbiome or are there certain markers?

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How do you monitor her for that?

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So that's an interesting question.

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I think certainly where you otherwise have a disposition as you do in sort of bowel cancer and whichever, we have defined testing.

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So I think this is where it's really important to otherwise differentiate between we're not trying to take you away from medicine.

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Medicine is great in terms of what it does.

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It's wonderful at dealing with known entities.

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When we're looking at epigenomic data, largely where we're looking for is to see if we can control our environment.

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It's responsive to environmental factors and is forever changing.

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Your DNA is set in stone.

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Yeah.

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Your epigenomics you can influence.

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And so if you're not yet broken or you don't yet have a defined sort of condition, but you feel like I'm just not myself, are there processes which aren't working as well as what they should otherwise do?

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Yeah.

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that we can't nail, then we look at those circumstances.

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Do we look at your levels of vitamins, amino acids, oxidation states, lipid states, you know, your pollutants?

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Do you suffer?

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Do you have pesticides, forever chemicals?

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I've got all of them.

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All of these things which you can otherwise then influence so that they don't then express your DNA the way you want to or you express them the way you want to.

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Right.

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So they can be influenced.

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Okay, yeah.

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I mean, and I guess that's the part that medicine struggles with, traditional medicine struggles with, is the fact that, well, listen, there's not a lot of evidence to say, listen, in influencing that it changes disease processes.

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But what you're creating for me in any case is a knowledge base.

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Any one tool only is one tool.

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You know, you can't buy...

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an angle grinder and think you've got a workshop.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You need multiple tools before you otherwise then can do what you do, essentially.

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So epigenomics then become part of the toolbox along with our simple blood tests, along with our gut microbiome, along with our DNA.

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And then you extend further into other testing, be that through physiology testing and radiology testing, continuous glucose monitors.

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And I think that's really important.

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But the clear issue for me also too is to make sure you have a lens.

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Yeah.

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And that's where you need the relationship.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Who are you?

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What do you want to achieve?

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So with the epigenetics, you would also offer things like full-body MRIs, ADEXAs.

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Completely.

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Scans, the whole shebang.

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Completely.

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Okay.

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It's interesting you talk about, you know, full-body MRIs because there's been a lot of press about whether they're relevant, irrelevant, making the worried well.

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Again, it's contextual.

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Yeah.

226
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And I think if you otherwise order a full-body MRI without actually having someone by your side who can take you through that journey, I think it can become quite scary.

227
00:13:00.357 --> 00:13:00.758
It is.

228
00:13:00.818 --> 00:13:03.540
I think it's like, you know, they're always going to find something.

229
00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:04.200
Yeah.

230
00:13:04.220 --> 00:13:05.942
So the more you look, you're going to find something.

231
00:13:05.962 --> 00:13:06.682
You're going to find something.

232
00:13:06.702 --> 00:13:06.802
Yeah.

233
00:13:06.822 --> 00:13:07.083
Totally.

234
00:13:07.203 --> 00:13:07.503
Yeah.

235
00:13:07.743 --> 00:13:08.143
Yeah.

236
00:13:08.284 --> 00:13:12.227
I did a full-body MRI and I've been wanting to do one for a couple of years.

237
00:13:12.607 --> 00:13:14.008
And every time I go to do it, I'm like…

238
00:13:14.608 --> 00:13:17.731
oh, I'm not ready for them to find something that needs further exploration.

239
00:13:17.751 --> 00:13:21.875
See, I'm like, I'm a germaphobe and stuff, but I don't have health concern.

240
00:13:21.915 --> 00:13:23.756
Like health, you know, health anxiety.

241
00:13:23.796 --> 00:13:31.403
No, I'm like, if you find something, I'm so glad you found it now that we can fix it instead of like… Let's go look for something.

242
00:13:31.603 --> 00:13:31.923
Yeah.

243
00:13:31.983 --> 00:13:36.107
No, yeah, I feel like, yeah, I'm… Yeah, I can definitely get under a machine and not be scared.

244
00:13:36.147 --> 00:13:36.947
I'm like, let's do this.

245
00:13:37.628 --> 00:13:39.770
And when they say I haven't found anything, I'm like, oh…

246
00:13:41.508 --> 00:13:43.269
I thought there was something wrong with me.

247
00:13:43.429 --> 00:13:45.509
Should we explain who you are?

248
00:13:45.549 --> 00:13:45.789
Yeah.

249
00:13:45.809 --> 00:13:46.309
No, babe.

250
00:13:46.369 --> 00:13:47.710
We did the brain scan already.

251
00:13:47.730 --> 00:13:48.250
Yeah, we did.

252
00:13:48.270 --> 00:13:50.270
We've done it a few times.

253
00:13:50.290 --> 00:14:04.294
So I kept putting it off and off and off, and then there were young people around us who were getting diagnosed with very late-stage cancers, and I thought, God, I've got this tool where I can – I've got the resources, because it's not cheap, to go and do these kinds of things.

254
00:14:04.734 --> 00:14:07.015
So why wouldn't I as a mother of four, right?

255
00:14:07.055 --> 00:14:07.775
That's really interesting.

256
00:14:07.875 --> 00:14:10.916
As you get older, you'll find more and more people who are having disease processes.

257
00:14:11.016 --> 00:14:11.576
Yeah.

258
00:14:11.636 --> 00:14:12.537
And younger.

259
00:14:12.737 --> 00:14:12.917
Yes.

260
00:14:12.937 --> 00:14:15.098
They're 35 and they've got stage four bowel cancer.

261
00:14:15.218 --> 00:14:17.319
And there was two of them in one week.

262
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:17.979
Yeah, yeah.

263
00:14:18.019 --> 00:14:18.239
Right?

264
00:14:18.920 --> 00:14:20.300
Both men, 35.

265
00:14:20.420 --> 00:14:22.781
And I said to my husband, you've got to go get a colonoscopy straight away.

266
00:14:22.981 --> 00:14:23.202
Yeah.

267
00:14:23.422 --> 00:14:26.183
And things like that kept popping up and they were so late stage.

268
00:14:26.203 --> 00:14:33.206
And I just think, gosh, if you had the resources to be able to go and do it in a country like ours, why wouldn't you?

269
00:14:33.246 --> 00:14:35.707
My ex-boyfriend just died recently from bowel cancer.

270
00:14:35.767 --> 00:14:36.548
And he was so young.

271
00:14:36.568 --> 00:14:36.888
He was 36.

272
00:14:36.908 --> 00:14:37.148
Yeah.

273
00:14:37.368 --> 00:14:37.989
That's terrible.

274
00:14:38.049 --> 00:14:38.569
Yeah.

275
00:14:38.769 --> 00:14:39.530
So sad.

276
00:14:39.570 --> 00:14:40.151
And that's the thing.

277
00:14:40.191 --> 00:14:46.297
Like, you just don't think it in your 30s that you go do that because it's usually a 40 plus, you know.

278
00:14:46.557 --> 00:14:48.419
Everything's just younger.

279
00:14:48.439 --> 00:14:48.559
Yeah.

280
00:14:48.599 --> 00:14:48.880
It's crazy.

281
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:50.521
Even Kylie Minogue having breast cancer.

282
00:14:50.782 --> 00:14:51.803
Yeah.

283
00:14:51.843 --> 00:14:52.644
At 35.

284
00:14:52.724 --> 00:14:53.765
I thought she was older.

285
00:14:53.925 --> 00:14:57.789
But she was like 35, 36 when she got diagnosed because you just wouldn't think.

286
00:14:57.809 --> 00:14:58.570
No, it's so true.

287
00:14:58.650 --> 00:14:59.010
So true.

288
00:14:59.110 --> 00:15:13.836
So when you get these epigenetic results and someone might have, we can call it like a bad result, a result that said they were a lot older than their chronological age, like what are the tools you use to reverse that and get it back to like under their chronological age?

289
00:15:14.227 --> 00:15:19.851
I guess the first part is you need to just debunk what it isn't, I guess, rather than tell you what it is.

290
00:15:20.411 --> 00:15:26.856
I think people will read it as the fact that, you know, it's a sentence almost rather than it's a word necessarily.

291
00:15:27.557 --> 00:15:32.460
And so the key part is to actually just give them a level of understanding of what it actually reflects and what it actually means.

292
00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:34.902
Because to see a circumstance where you're...

293
00:15:35.302 --> 00:15:46.491
You know, your omega-3s are effectively unrecordable or you've got elevated, you know, apolipoprotein Bs, which otherwise might cause atherosclerosis or atheroma within your cardiac vessels.

294
00:15:46.871 --> 00:15:51.875
It can be quite confronting if you actually don't understand what atheroma within your cardiac vessels, you know, the vessels otherwise might be.

295
00:15:52.456 --> 00:15:54.858
So I think… I'm going to have a heart attack any day now.

296
00:15:55.038 --> 00:15:55.578
Correct.

297
00:15:55.638 --> 00:16:00.922
I think the key is to sort of almost generalise over it and sort of say, listen, this is probably suggested that your system's under strain.

298
00:16:01.682 --> 00:16:05.045
And then you can otherwise then get into some of the particulars that might sort of help.

299
00:16:05.645 --> 00:16:15.031
I certainly do take, like I said, we take an holistic sort of view of the entire thing and I need to understand who you are to give context to what we otherwise then see.

300
00:16:15.431 --> 00:16:19.094
Because as I said, it will reflect what might be happening over the past three months.

301
00:16:19.134 --> 00:16:23.337
But if, you know, if unfortunately perhaps your mother's passed away or you just lost your job…

302
00:16:24.137 --> 00:16:27.540
It will influence, but then... Gone to Coachella, had 100 margaritas.

303
00:16:27.880 --> 00:16:30.542
Completely, completely, completely.

304
00:16:30.582 --> 00:16:41.231
But also then you take that in context where perhaps you know what your gut biome's been or you understand and say, hey, I know that you've got diabetes or you have whatever you have.

305
00:16:41.911 --> 00:16:48.717
So contextually, so when you do get these results, the key is not to emphasize too much on any one particular thing.

306
00:16:49.037 --> 00:16:50.258
Now, that's hard to do because...

307
00:16:50.618 --> 00:16:55.701
When someone sees their epigenomic age, like all they'll see is whether they're older or younger and that is all they'll see.

308
00:16:55.801 --> 00:16:56.001
Yeah.

309
00:16:56.281 --> 00:16:56.461
Yeah?

310
00:16:56.881 --> 00:17:00.223
Then they look at their organ age and they see the fact that their liver's 10 years older than what it should be.

311
00:17:00.263 --> 00:17:00.583
It's like...

312
00:17:01.464 --> 00:17:02.285
How do I get that back?

313
00:17:02.565 --> 00:17:02.946
Correct.

314
00:17:02.986 --> 00:17:03.126
Yeah.

315
00:17:03.186 --> 00:17:03.867
How do I get it back?

316
00:17:03.887 --> 00:17:04.848
I want it 10 years under.

317
00:17:05.068 --> 00:17:07.671
What is my, you know, what is my Dunedin pace of aging?

318
00:17:07.972 --> 00:17:08.993
How do I make it slower?

319
00:17:09.033 --> 00:17:09.714
How do I make it slower?

320
00:17:09.754 --> 00:17:10.474
How do I improve my...

321
00:17:10.494 --> 00:17:11.496
So how do we?

322
00:17:11.516 --> 00:17:11.996
Stop drinking.

323
00:17:12.417 --> 00:17:13.017
Stop drinking.

324
00:17:13.057 --> 00:17:16.041
So I guess, yeah, I guess you're going to go, it just depends on the person.

325
00:17:16.081 --> 00:17:20.106
Like their sleep, their stress, their diet, their gut microbiome.

326
00:17:20.146 --> 00:17:20.446
Correct.

327
00:17:20.466 --> 00:17:20.586
Yeah.

328
00:17:21.707 --> 00:17:22.848
And I like to sort of see the gut.

329
00:17:22.868 --> 00:17:25.569
And I think you've had Dr. Paul Froons on this in the past.

330
00:17:25.909 --> 00:17:31.011
And I think Paul does some wonderful work in terms of, you know, looking at that sort of gut biome, which it's interesting.

331
00:17:31.211 --> 00:17:35.513
In my world, we sort of see medicine starting to move towards maybe that actually is a real thing.

332
00:17:35.973 --> 00:17:40.635
And there are many gastroenterologists now who will actually do that or specialize in that sort of circumstance.

333
00:17:41.115 --> 00:17:45.637
But for me, I believe that the gut biome is the foundation of much of what we otherwise do.

334
00:17:46.177 --> 00:17:48.778
So epigenomics becomes part of that sort of type of circumstance.

335
00:17:49.158 --> 00:17:52.941
So, sorry, that's a long-winded sort of story in terms of answering what you talk about.

336
00:17:53.341 --> 00:17:57.584
But what you do is you take them through that process and say, right, these are the things that would appear to be happening.

337
00:17:58.044 --> 00:18:00.166
It would suggest that you're under an extra amount of stress.

338
00:18:00.526 --> 00:18:01.427
You're not hydrating.

339
00:18:01.807 --> 00:18:02.488
You're doing whatever.

340
00:18:03.028 --> 00:18:08.472
It can also be used to validate what you're taking because often people are already taking things because they read about it.

341
00:18:08.732 --> 00:18:10.994
They heard about it or someone suggested you take this.

342
00:18:11.534 --> 00:18:12.795
And it will validate what you're taking.

343
00:18:13.415 --> 00:18:14.836
So people say, what should I do now?

344
00:18:14.876 --> 00:18:18.179
It's like, well, okay, you're taking these already, which are causing this.

345
00:18:18.699 --> 00:18:22.082
What if we try and modify a couple of these things to make some improvements?

346
00:18:22.542 --> 00:18:31.729
You know, I think for me, vitamins are a common misconception about whether people are taking too many and they say, listen, they're all going to the toilet and things like that.

347
00:18:31.809 --> 00:18:32.210
Yeah.

348
00:18:32.530 --> 00:18:35.893
But it's really important to make sure that these things aren't necessarily deficient.

349
00:18:36.193 --> 00:18:37.234
You can have too much.

350
00:18:37.994 --> 00:18:40.896
And sometimes you can get medical conditions from having too many.

351
00:18:41.416 --> 00:18:45.838
But again, if you're making sure that you're monitoring these circumstances, then it's the way to otherwise go.

352
00:18:46.278 --> 00:18:56.324
But a lot of these things, you know, like we talk about cycles and whether people are otherwise having the right vitamins or the right supplements and whichever, it's almost like building a brick wall.

353
00:18:56.364 --> 00:19:00.226
If you don't have enough bricks, you can have as many brick layers as you want, but you aren't going anywhere.

354
00:19:08.913 --> 00:19:12.197
I posted something on my Instagram.

355
00:19:12.858 --> 00:19:16.383
I had a new machine, a PureGuard Pro, PureGuard.

356
00:19:16.623 --> 00:19:17.224
It's a bucket.

357
00:19:17.384 --> 00:19:24.233
You put water and salt in there and you use this machine with electrolysis and it draws the impurities and the pesticides.

358
00:19:24.253 --> 00:19:24.473
Absolutely.

359
00:19:24.473 --> 00:19:25.033
Out of the fruit.

360
00:19:25.053 --> 00:19:26.134
Out of the fruit and veg.

361
00:19:26.194 --> 00:19:35.537
So I used it and I saw it pull it out and I posted it and I wrote a little comment about how I did epigenetic testing.

362
00:19:35.857 --> 00:19:43.540
And even though my biological age was younger, I was really, really super high in the critical level for pesticides, glyphosates.

363
00:19:44.140 --> 00:19:46.601
And my DMs blew up.

364
00:19:46.821 --> 00:19:47.161
I had...

365
00:19:47.621 --> 00:19:51.004
hundreds of people saying, how'd you get your biological age?

366
00:19:51.044 --> 00:19:51.585
We want to do it.

367
00:19:51.605 --> 00:19:52.586
We want to investigate it.

368
00:19:52.946 --> 00:19:53.587
It went off.

369
00:19:53.627 --> 00:19:55.228
I think it's very on trend right now.

370
00:19:55.288 --> 00:20:02.175
And like you touched on before, since COVID, everyone's really keen to know about their health and they want to know how old their insides are.

371
00:20:02.195 --> 00:20:08.080
And I think, and I also think that like, as we get older, and just this day and age, we have to do everything.

372
00:20:08.140 --> 00:20:10.082
We all have to have nine to five jobs,

373
00:20:10.543 --> 00:20:17.599
We have to be mums and dads, cook, make sure our kids mental – Feed every assembly, every training, every footy mat.

374
00:20:17.659 --> 00:20:19.624
Yeah, and like just keeping up.

375
00:20:20.643 --> 00:20:25.504
you know, now than it was like in the 90s and stuff, I think right... And now it's your health as well.

376
00:20:25.524 --> 00:20:27.205
What's my biological age?

377
00:20:27.385 --> 00:20:35.307
I think we're noticing that like we're so exhausted because we're trying to keep up with everything and because we're doing so much more now than we were, that our parents were doing.

378
00:20:35.427 --> 00:20:37.948
Yeah, and so I think it's like now we're like, I can't do this.

379
00:20:37.968 --> 00:20:39.989
I'm really struggling mentally, physically.

380
00:20:40.049 --> 00:20:40.989
I'm tired all the time.

381
00:20:41.433 --> 00:20:47.677
So I think that's another reason why people are really diving into… I have this conversation every day with… Yeah, health and how they can optimize.

382
00:20:47.697 --> 00:20:54.281
Yeah, because they're actually feeling shit and they can't… Then in terms of like they're feeling shit and exhausted, but it's like I still have to do this.

383
00:20:54.541 --> 00:20:55.461
Yeah.

384
00:20:56.122 --> 00:20:59.044
Something's obviously… I think you're listening to your body more.

385
00:20:59.124 --> 00:20:59.924
Yeah, I agree.

386
00:20:59.944 --> 00:21:01.165
Because you're trying to… Yeah.

387
00:21:01.205 --> 00:21:01.305
Yeah.

388
00:21:01.705 --> 00:21:03.206
do all this stuff and you just can't.

389
00:21:03.226 --> 00:21:05.927
So it's like there's obviously something internally that's not working.

390
00:21:06.048 --> 00:21:06.428
Yeah, I agree.

391
00:21:06.468 --> 00:21:08.069
And that's why they're going into this whole health thing.

392
00:21:08.089 --> 00:21:09.670
And that's why I started my testing as well.

393
00:21:09.690 --> 00:21:15.893
A, because of people around me who were young were getting terminal cancers, but also I just always felt like shit.

394
00:21:16.013 --> 00:21:17.114
Yeah, you're saying I'm always tired.

395
00:21:17.134 --> 00:21:20.956
And I eat well, I sleep eight hours a night, I wake up tired, I'm so sore.

396
00:21:21.056 --> 00:21:21.356
Yeah.

397
00:21:21.516 --> 00:21:22.477
And what is wrong with me?

398
00:21:22.517 --> 00:21:26.219
And I've got to work and do this with the kids and I can't keep up.

399
00:21:26.679 --> 00:21:28.520
So what do I need to change to feel good?

400
00:21:28.540 --> 00:21:28.640
Yeah.

401
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.021
I think our lifestyle has outpaced our ability to adapt.

402
00:21:31.181 --> 00:21:33.663
I mean, humans are wonderful at adapting.

403
00:21:33.723 --> 00:21:35.744
But if you consider what's happened in the past 30 years.

404
00:21:35.944 --> 00:21:36.985
Oh, we've gone so fast.

405
00:21:37.085 --> 00:21:38.606
It's impossible to adapt.

406
00:21:38.626 --> 00:21:42.288
So supplements almost become a misnomer as much as it's almost a normality now.

407
00:21:42.328 --> 00:21:43.248
They're not supplements.

408
00:21:43.709 --> 00:21:47.311
I mean, we're just trying to sort of cope with where we're at right now.

409
00:21:47.751 --> 00:21:52.434
And I guess doing all of this sort of testing regime, if you're always trying to anticipate that need,

410
00:21:53.014 --> 00:21:54.896
rather than waiting until we're broken and then fixing it.

411
00:21:54.936 --> 00:21:55.336
Exactly.

412
00:21:55.356 --> 00:21:55.937
That's the other thing.

413
00:21:55.997 --> 00:21:58.920
I don't want to wait until I'm literally broken and I am breaking.

414
00:21:59.120 --> 00:22:00.021
Let's stop it.

415
00:22:00.041 --> 00:22:01.322
And fix it before.

416
00:22:01.382 --> 00:22:08.349
And we can't talk too much about my program, TGA, but I'm feeling amazing and it's because I investigated things and I made changes.

417
00:22:08.549 --> 00:22:08.809
Yeah.

418
00:22:08.829 --> 00:22:13.554
So do you think that's the reason epigenetics has become such a big conversation in wellness, beauty and longevity?

419
00:22:13.574 --> 00:22:13.714
Yeah.

420
00:22:13.874 --> 00:22:14.994
I think it's absolutely.

421
00:22:15.014 --> 00:22:20.955
I think what it's trying to do is it's trying to mature the space because it's largely a fractionated sort of space.

422
00:22:21.436 --> 00:22:23.676
You know, there are persons who are doing testings.

423
00:22:23.736 --> 00:22:29.037
There are persons who are doing infrared saunas, plunge pools, peptides, supplements.

424
00:22:29.537 --> 00:22:32.718
But everyone seems to look at them like they're a singular entity.

425
00:22:33.318 --> 00:22:39.599
When I think, in fact, they're all, like I said, people will come for peptides or a full-body MRI or come to do an epigenomic test.

426
00:22:40.139 --> 00:22:41.940
It's a starting point for the conversation.

427
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.521
And so they say, right, what peptides are you going to give me?

428
00:22:44.541 --> 00:22:46.382
It's like, okay, no, we're not going to talk about that.

429
00:22:46.402 --> 00:22:48.204
Let's just talk about, tell me about yourself.

430
00:22:48.224 --> 00:22:50.345
Why are you here in the first place?

431
00:22:51.125 --> 00:22:53.787
And then you say, well, okay, do we start with the level of baseline?

432
00:22:54.648 --> 00:22:55.568
And what is your baseline?

433
00:22:55.588 --> 00:22:56.509
We need to measure that.

434
00:22:57.089 --> 00:23:07.216
It's interesting, you know, I get a lot of women in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s who are purely told that their reason for being tired and lethargic is the menopause.

435
00:23:07.376 --> 00:23:07.776
That's all.

436
00:23:07.816 --> 00:23:10.658
So apparently aging is all about two hormones.

437
00:23:11.472 --> 00:23:12.273
Yeah, yeah.

438
00:23:12.413 --> 00:23:12.874
It's a true.

439
00:23:12.914 --> 00:23:13.094
Yeah.

440
00:23:13.415 --> 00:23:16.799
And as doctors, you get experts in two hormones.

441
00:23:16.899 --> 00:23:17.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

442
00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:19.162
More of that one, less of this one.

443
00:23:19.182 --> 00:23:19.903
A bit more of that.

444
00:23:20.103 --> 00:23:22.386
Put at this place, put at that place, do whatever.

445
00:23:23.408 --> 00:23:24.409
Everything else ages too.

446
00:23:24.569 --> 00:23:24.950
Yeah, yeah.

447
00:23:25.170 --> 00:23:27.813
But we don't ever talk about the other things.

448
00:23:27.933 --> 00:23:28.074
Yeah.

449
00:23:28.094 --> 00:23:28.254
Yeah.

450
00:23:28.754 --> 00:23:39.378
be it the missing hormones, the thyroid hormone, I should sort of say, the testosterone, all of those other things, my musculoskeletal health, what otherwise is happening in my immune health.

451
00:23:39.978 --> 00:23:42.999
All of these things never get talked about in the same conversation.

452
00:23:43.639 --> 00:23:50.762
And what we're trying to do is create one space that you can go to where you trust and you can say, right, this is how I feel.

453
00:23:51.122 --> 00:23:51.782
Please help me.

454
00:23:52.122 --> 00:23:52.862
What do I need?

455
00:23:53.042 --> 00:23:54.863
Or how can I know more about myself?

456
00:23:56.175 --> 00:23:59.442
I've got my metabolic age.

457
00:23:59.743 --> 00:24:00.284
Yep.

458
00:24:00.304 --> 00:24:00.905
What is that?

459
00:24:00.925 --> 00:24:05.655
What is the difference between biological age and metabolic age and how do you test the two?

460
00:24:06.225 --> 00:24:07.006
That's an interesting thing.

461
00:24:07.306 --> 00:24:13.471
When you talk about your metabolic age, what we're looking at is almost like an organ system with inside your body.

462
00:24:13.912 --> 00:24:21.658
Your biological age will express an ability to sort of try and quantitate how old you are relative to your chronological age.

463
00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:29.785
Looking at a metabolic system is purely saying I'm looking exclusively at the metabolic system without understanding whether you're aging or not.

464
00:24:31.094 --> 00:24:42.102
So whenever we do our testing, and Beck will have had her testing done, she got a biologic age, which was otherwise her so-called omic age, which looks at about 133 different biomarkers to otherwise get that age.

465
00:24:42.463 --> 00:24:45.245
And you can do so on simple nine sort of biomarkers as well.

466
00:24:45.265 --> 00:24:49.508
We call that a pheno age effectively, which is the sort of the poor cousin to whatever we do.

467
00:24:50.169 --> 00:24:56.673
But then what we do is we do so-called organ ages, and we'll treat those organs a bit like a link in a chain.

468
00:24:57.094 --> 00:24:57.314
Mm-hmm.

469
00:24:57.614 --> 00:25:09.886
So you can check your organ age for your liver, your heart, your kidney, your musculoskeletal system, your immune system, your hormone system, your inflammatory markers, your neurocognitive markers.

470
00:25:09.906 --> 00:25:11.507
So that's metabolic.

471
00:25:11.827 --> 00:25:16.172
So that talks about your whole sort of organ age and we treat the metabolic age like that.

472
00:25:16.792 --> 00:25:24.054
And for me, while I really enjoy that sort of age, and they don't always then correlate with what your biologic age because it's a different metric in a sense.

473
00:25:24.674 --> 00:25:28.775
But what it enables you to do is we all know a chain is only strong as its weakest link.

474
00:25:29.416 --> 00:25:33.397
So most of us view health and fitness by going to the gym.

475
00:25:34.677 --> 00:25:37.478
And that seems to be the only way you otherwise get healthier now.

476
00:25:38.447 --> 00:25:51.693
But if you've otherwise got a circumstance whereby your biological age or your aging of your kidney outstrips your liver by 10 years, intuitively you'd think maybe I should put more energies into my kidney.

477
00:25:51.973 --> 00:25:52.553
Yeah, okay.

478
00:25:52.593 --> 00:25:56.055
Maybe I should put more energy into my immune system, which is three years older than the rest of me.

479
00:25:56.135 --> 00:25:59.756
because you're more likely to benefit from putting your energies into there.

480
00:26:00.256 --> 00:26:01.857
Remembering this is not an exact science.

481
00:26:01.937 --> 00:26:02.337
No, no, yeah.

482
00:26:02.497 --> 00:26:04.438
This doesn't tell you that it's wrong.

483
00:26:04.598 --> 00:26:07.319
It's just saying, hey, I'm not feeling quite right.

484
00:26:08.059 --> 00:26:14.881
If I put a bit more emphasis or emphasis, as I like to say, into that particular area, then maybe I might get more benefits.

485
00:26:14.962 --> 00:26:16.222
So let's experiment and see.

486
00:26:16.442 --> 00:26:17.043
Okay.

487
00:26:17.503 --> 00:26:22.808
And so with the testing with the two of them, so is one a blood test and then one's like… All blood tests.

488
00:26:23.088 --> 00:26:23.689
They're all blood tests.

489
00:26:23.709 --> 00:26:24.730
All blood tests effectively.

490
00:26:24.830 --> 00:26:25.350
Yeah.

491
00:26:25.651 --> 00:26:26.852
So those are sort of blood tests.

492
00:26:26.872 --> 00:26:29.795
And when we do our epigenomics, we do them on like a forensic card.

493
00:26:29.815 --> 00:26:33.458
It's just a little drop of blood, essentially, is what we do when we send that away.

494
00:26:33.879 --> 00:26:39.504
Formalized blood testing is otherwise real time and you need to otherwise you might go to one of the local pathology companies for that.

495
00:26:39.784 --> 00:26:40.084
Okay.

496
00:26:40.104 --> 00:26:41.506
So maybe my metabolic age is wrong.

497
00:26:41.566 --> 00:26:41.726
Okay.

498
00:26:42.572 --> 00:26:43.453
Because I did it differently.

499
00:26:43.473 --> 00:26:45.955
I did mine like on a – it's called Hume, you know, the Hume?

500
00:26:45.975 --> 00:26:46.475
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

501
00:26:46.755 --> 00:26:48.176
Is that – what is that?

502
00:26:48.196 --> 00:26:56.563
So, again, that will use markers which are effectively be it your body fat, your muscle mass, be it – you may have done a strength test on there, a grip strength at the same time.

503
00:26:56.883 --> 00:26:58.704
So it's a form of biomarker.

504
00:26:58.804 --> 00:27:04.088
A biomarker is simply a marker of your biology, if you will, which will form a picture.

505
00:27:04.729 --> 00:27:09.713
So if you can appreciate that back in the 70s we had cathode ray televisions, you know, which had –

506
00:27:10.253 --> 00:27:12.015
Lots of little dots but not a lot of dots.

507
00:27:12.055 --> 00:27:14.197
You can tell the news from that and you can hear the news on it.

508
00:27:14.837 --> 00:27:19.241
If you compare that to an 8K television now, it's a much better picture.

509
00:27:19.281 --> 00:27:22.444
You get much better definition and much more detail from it.

510
00:27:23.124 --> 00:27:24.886
But the messaging's not too dissimilar.

511
00:27:24.906 --> 00:27:25.487
Okay.

512
00:27:25.527 --> 00:27:27.628
It's just a more refined picture that you see now.

513
00:27:27.648 --> 00:27:27.769
Right.

514
00:27:27.789 --> 00:27:28.089
Right.

515
00:27:28.349 --> 00:27:34.217
So while you did that on a Hume, it gave you an introduction to what might be a metabolic age, which is great insight, essentially.

516
00:27:34.818 --> 00:27:42.148
Getting a more defined test will give you more defined answers and which may then allow you to curate your treatments a little bit better.

517
00:27:42.357 --> 00:27:42.857
Okay.

518
00:27:43.357 --> 00:27:51.961
Have you ever had a patient where you have been able to turn around their biological age through epigenetic testing?

519
00:27:52.322 --> 00:28:00.125
And also, what kind of person has lowest biological age you've seen compared to chronological age?

520
00:28:00.145 --> 00:28:02.026
And what was their lifestyle like?

521
00:28:02.505 --> 00:28:04.426
The most I've changed it is mine.

522
00:28:04.926 --> 00:28:06.267
Oh.

523
00:28:06.327 --> 00:28:08.828
Are you like Australia's version of Brian Johnson?

524
00:28:09.128 --> 00:28:09.728
I love it.

525
00:28:09.748 --> 00:28:10.768
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

526
00:28:11.069 --> 00:28:13.770
And that is just to say that… Okay, where do we start and where do we end?

527
00:28:14.050 --> 00:28:15.670
What do we need to do?

528
00:28:15.891 --> 00:28:19.972
Within inside an eight-month period of time, it came down eight years, essentially.

529
00:28:19.992 --> 00:28:20.673
Eight years, okay.

530
00:28:20.713 --> 00:28:21.513
But that takes…

531
00:28:21.893 --> 00:28:22.633
I want to do that.

532
00:28:22.753 --> 00:28:23.734
That means I would be 24.

533
00:28:23.874 --> 00:28:26.855
But I'm obsessive-compulsive like you, you know, in a sense.

534
00:28:27.075 --> 00:28:29.556
But I had an easy starting point because I'm so bad.

535
00:28:29.596 --> 00:28:32.177
So making some simple changes was an easy thing to do.

536
00:28:32.417 --> 00:28:32.638
Yeah.

537
00:28:32.978 --> 00:28:35.019
I've seen someone who's 20 years younger than they should be.

538
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:35.939
Wow.

539
00:28:35.959 --> 00:28:37.279
I saw someone who was 37 who was 17.

540
00:28:38.600 --> 00:28:39.461
Is that my husband?

541
00:28:41.303 --> 00:28:42.905
They were 17.

542
00:28:42.965 --> 00:28:44.326
Yeah, Val's 20 years.

543
00:28:44.527 --> 00:28:45.047
Yeah, wow.

544
00:28:45.087 --> 00:28:45.588
Is that true?

545
00:28:45.608 --> 00:28:46.208
20 years.

546
00:28:46.248 --> 00:28:46.449
He's 47.

547
00:28:46.509 --> 00:28:47.430
Which is fantastic.

548
00:28:48.010 --> 00:28:50.253
He's 47 and he's 25.

549
00:28:50.553 --> 00:28:51.194
Which is wonderful.

550
00:28:51.354 --> 00:28:51.494
Yeah.

551
00:28:51.514 --> 00:28:53.036
But what it doesn't tell you is when he'll die.

552
00:28:53.717 --> 00:28:53.977
No.

553
00:28:54.017 --> 00:28:55.778
And that's one of those really interesting things.

554
00:28:56.479 --> 00:28:57.579
It's quite morbid.

555
00:28:57.619 --> 00:29:04.303
But what I'm saying is you can still have someone who might be consistent with their chronological age because their DNA suggests that they're going to live long.

556
00:29:04.523 --> 00:29:04.763
Yeah.

557
00:29:04.943 --> 00:29:09.846
Will live longer than the person who's 20 years younger on their chronological age, in their biological age.

558
00:29:10.266 --> 00:29:12.968
And so you've got to, again, read it in context.

559
00:29:12.988 --> 00:29:20.792
If you're from a long line of long livers, effectively, and grandma died at 105 and mum's still roasting around at 85 or thereabouts, okay.

560
00:29:21.252 --> 00:29:26.174
no matter what your epigenomics will otherwise suggest, the chances are you're going to live really, really well.

561
00:29:26.334 --> 00:29:26.494
DNA.

562
00:29:26.514 --> 00:29:27.754
But you can live better.

563
00:29:27.994 --> 00:29:29.855
Genetics, same.

564
00:29:29.915 --> 00:29:33.296
See, Val's family, they all die very, very young.

565
00:29:34.056 --> 00:29:38.278
But he's got this really young metabolic and biological age.

566
00:29:38.498 --> 00:29:41.599
But his family do have a lot of cancers and heart diseases.

567
00:29:41.619 --> 00:29:45.520
So that means he needs to be working hard for that purpose.

568
00:29:45.540 --> 00:29:47.061
So that's what the suggestion would be.

569
00:29:47.261 --> 00:29:48.182
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

570
00:29:48.222 --> 00:29:52.806
So the patients you had that were 20 years younger than their chronological age.

571
00:29:52.846 --> 00:29:55.068
What were some features of their lifestyle?

572
00:29:55.108 --> 00:29:56.309
You know what I did notice?

573
00:29:56.569 --> 00:29:57.089
Partying.

574
00:29:57.109 --> 00:30:00.432
Margaritas, fun, friends.

575
00:30:00.452 --> 00:30:01.913
There wasn't a lot of that I must say.

576
00:30:01.953 --> 00:30:03.314
You know what they all went to?

577
00:30:03.334 --> 00:30:04.135
They all went to the gym.

578
00:30:04.735 --> 00:30:05.136
Okay.

579
00:30:05.236 --> 00:30:06.957
Irrespective, they did go to the gym.

580
00:30:07.478 --> 00:30:08.519
They would hydrate.

581
00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:09.660
They drank a lot of water.

582
00:30:10.340 --> 00:30:12.322
For whatever reason, they were insane sleepers.

583
00:30:13.452 --> 00:30:15.013
Oh, okay.

584
00:30:15.534 --> 00:30:15.994
What else?

585
00:30:16.054 --> 00:30:17.716
I drink lots of water and that's about it.

586
00:30:17.736 --> 00:30:19.197
Did they have certain diets?

587
00:30:19.237 --> 00:30:20.879
Were they keto, paleo, vego?

588
00:30:20.939 --> 00:30:21.640
No, no.

589
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.303
None of those otherwise had any dietary sort of changes.

590
00:30:25.043 --> 00:30:30.189
It's a really interesting thing and there'll be many people out there who sort of say, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong.

591
00:30:30.209 --> 00:30:34.112
I do appreciate that diet has a lot of things that will otherwise influence what you have.

592
00:30:34.693 --> 00:30:46.961
The difficult part in all of these things is that for racial reasons, for religious reasons, for DNA reasons, that our palate doesn't like this food or that food or that food, I find diets really quite hard to otherwise institute.

593
00:30:47.602 --> 00:30:54.466
I'm happy to give some dietary advice or to suggest that people try and find a solution if they wish, but I'd rather sort of do it via feedback.

594
00:30:55.027 --> 00:30:57.909
And if I say that, that's where we do continuous glucose monitoring and the like.

595
00:30:57.929 --> 00:30:59.390
So you see the effect of food.

596
00:31:00.170 --> 00:31:04.231
That food on you, not a one-size-fits-all herd mentality.

597
00:31:04.451 --> 00:31:05.411
Let's all do keto.

598
00:31:05.931 --> 00:31:07.031
Let's all do paleo.

599
00:31:07.371 --> 00:31:08.472
Let's all do whatever.

600
00:31:08.832 --> 00:31:12.632
I would rather you do a situation and say, right, let me do a series of tests prior.

601
00:31:13.072 --> 00:31:14.593
I'm now going to be paleo for a while.

602
00:31:15.373 --> 00:31:26.875
Let me now do those same markers again and see what the effects have otherwise been on me in a totality sort of type view and then check how I feel against what I see and whether it's actually having an effect on me.

603
00:31:26.895 --> 00:31:28.175
And that to me is more intelligent.

604
00:31:28.451 --> 00:31:29.596
Okay.

605
00:31:29.857 --> 00:31:30.118
Yeah.

606
00:31:30.560 --> 00:31:32.709
Rather than saying, let's all do paleo because...

607
00:31:33.696 --> 00:31:34.396
person said so.

608
00:31:34.716 --> 00:31:36.017
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

609
00:31:36.077 --> 00:31:36.817
On the internet.

610
00:31:37.177 --> 00:31:38.097
Exactly.

611
00:31:38.177 --> 00:31:41.238
What is one person's sort of, you know, superpower is another person's kryptonite.

612
00:31:41.658 --> 00:31:42.178
Totally.

613
00:31:42.339 --> 00:31:54.382
So you'd be more like when you get all the test results back and the dieting advice would be if you think that something's inflammatory and, you know, okay, maybe you're allergic to wheat or something, let's just take that away.

614
00:31:54.402 --> 00:31:55.402
Let's test it and measure it.

615
00:31:55.562 --> 00:31:55.882
Yeah.

616
00:31:55.943 --> 00:31:57.723
Let's not just do this certain diet.

617
00:31:57.783 --> 00:31:58.183
Yeah.

618
00:31:58.203 --> 00:31:58.663
Okay.

619
00:31:58.783 --> 00:31:59.143
Yeah.

620
00:31:59.283 --> 00:32:00.524
And so largely, I mean,

621
00:32:01.204 --> 00:32:02.366
We're all parents here, effectively.

622
00:32:02.406 --> 00:32:05.770
We all know that the best way to get a child to do something is not to tell them what to do.

623
00:32:05.790 --> 00:32:06.090
Yes, so true.

624
00:32:06.110 --> 00:32:08.754
Otherwise, you have to continue to tell them what to do.

625
00:32:09.354 --> 00:32:15.222
The best way is to create insight and get them to think that they've changed because they thought of it.

626
00:32:15.262 --> 00:32:16.423
I worked with my husband too.

627
00:32:18.185 --> 00:32:35.236
So if we can do things that will take away your inflammation, make you feel better, improve your gut symptoms, even if you didn't think you had gut symptoms, help you to sleep, give you insight into why you might sleep, then all of a sudden you'd make those changes yourself to otherwise then continue it on and on and on.

628
00:32:35.556 --> 00:32:41.320
And so much of what I do is not to otherwise just do testing and asking you to keep coming back to see me all the time.

629
00:32:41.340 --> 00:32:41.760
Mm-hmm.

630
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.742
What I do often is I'll do an introduction and that will take an extended period of time.

631
00:32:46.122 --> 00:32:59.047
But then it comes down to education before hopefully finally converting you to what I would term medicine 3.0, which is where you have greater control and you use doctors to help you, not you come to doctors to help you.

632
00:32:59.524 --> 00:33:00.104
Yeah.

633
00:33:00.144 --> 00:33:00.605
Yes, yes, yes.

634
00:33:01.005 --> 00:33:05.067
One more question about these really, what do we call them, these young people, young biofilers?

635
00:33:05.267 --> 00:33:08.508
What kind of – did they look good?

636
00:33:08.548 --> 00:33:09.809
She did – Bec did very well.

637
00:33:09.969 --> 00:33:10.729
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

638
00:33:10.749 --> 00:33:11.469
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

639
00:33:11.569 --> 00:33:12.550
I'm 32, bitches.

640
00:33:12.570 --> 00:33:13.550
She's 32.

641
00:33:13.810 --> 00:33:14.351
I know.

642
00:33:14.411 --> 00:33:15.391
I'm 42, but I'm 32.

643
00:33:15.411 --> 00:33:15.971
That's so good.

644
00:33:15.991 --> 00:33:17.752
That was before intervention.

645
00:33:17.912 --> 00:33:18.212
I know.

646
00:33:18.252 --> 00:33:19.373
Was that before Coachella?

647
00:33:20.123 --> 00:33:21.184
was before the job.

648
00:33:21.284 --> 00:33:22.325
I gave it in my head.

649
00:33:22.986 --> 00:33:28.372
I'm like, but I wonder if these people 20 years younger than their chronological age, what kind of jobs did they have?

650
00:33:28.392 --> 00:33:29.173
Like, did they work?

651
00:33:29.193 --> 00:33:30.134
Were they high stress?

652
00:33:31.035 --> 00:33:31.456
They were fitness.

653
00:33:31.476 --> 00:33:31.816
They didn't work.

654
00:33:31.836 --> 00:33:32.857
You're going to say they didn't work.

655
00:33:32.877 --> 00:33:33.218
Tradies.

656
00:33:33.518 --> 00:33:34.399
Tradies.

657
00:33:34.860 --> 00:33:35.460
Oh, really?

658
00:33:35.961 --> 00:33:36.441
Really?

659
00:33:37.082 --> 00:33:38.403
Had a beer at three o'clock.

660
00:33:38.423 --> 00:33:39.544
So they went to the gym.

661
00:33:39.584 --> 00:33:40.625
They slept well.

662
00:33:40.665 --> 00:33:41.786
They hydrated.

663
00:33:42.027 --> 00:33:42.707
They're grounding.

664
00:33:42.727 --> 00:33:43.428
They're out in the open.

665
00:33:43.448 --> 00:33:44.389
Did they drink alcohol?

666
00:33:44.629 --> 00:33:45.430
Yeah, tradies.

667
00:33:46.090 --> 00:33:47.091
That's what I was thinking.

668
00:33:47.191 --> 00:33:48.072
And they live on beer.

669
00:33:48.112 --> 00:33:48.572
Okay.

670
00:33:48.633 --> 00:33:49.473
This is awesome.

671
00:33:49.493 --> 00:33:50.254
To me, it's sad.

672
00:33:50.334 --> 00:33:51.035
Not those type of tradies.

673
00:33:51.055 --> 00:33:51.936
These are –

674
00:33:52.576 --> 00:33:53.336
There's two types of tradies.

675
00:33:53.356 --> 00:33:54.297
Again, there's two types of tradies.

676
00:33:54.337 --> 00:33:55.637
Yeah, yeah, there's two types of tradies.

677
00:33:55.657 --> 00:33:56.177
There's a few.

678
00:33:56.297 --> 00:33:57.017
I've dated a few tradies.

679
00:33:57.037 --> 00:33:57.577
You know what I mean.

680
00:33:57.597 --> 00:33:59.698
I've dated a few tradies and there's different types.

681
00:33:59.718 --> 00:34:01.839
There are the tradies and then there are the tradies.

682
00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:02.459
Yeah, yeah.

683
00:34:02.479 --> 00:34:03.859
There are the tradies.

684
00:34:03.959 --> 00:34:06.160
We're talking about the tradies.

685
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:07.160
Yeah, the tradies.

686
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:07.600
Yeah, yeah.

687
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.021
The ones that aren't really on the tools.

688
00:34:09.161 --> 00:34:14.122
The rough ones, the ones that finish at four, go to the gym or have been to the gym at four o'clock in the morning and then go to work at seven.

689
00:34:14.302 --> 00:34:14.962
The disciplined.

690
00:34:15.003 --> 00:34:16.163
The disciplined ones.

691
00:34:16.724 --> 00:34:20.186
And what I glean from that is the fact that resistance training in a younger person is really good.

692
00:34:20.526 --> 00:34:25.590
You know what's interesting is the fact that with these younger persons, if you will, they're the ones that had the bigger age differences.

693
00:34:26.210 --> 00:34:28.232
I don't see the big age difference in the older persons.

694
00:34:28.712 --> 00:34:28.972
Yeah.

695
00:34:28.992 --> 00:34:37.358
If I get an age difference of five or seven years in an older person, and that might be someone who's 50 plus, of which I am, I see that as significant.

696
00:34:37.678 --> 00:34:40.140
Like that's, hey, you're doing really, really well, you know.

697
00:34:40.820 --> 00:34:51.290
But in a younger age, maybe that sort of more reflects the fact that the epigenomics may be more nuanced a little bit so that as we get older, they become more predictable and they start to fail.

698
00:34:51.750 --> 00:35:00.117
Where largely when you're younger, these epigenomics can – or those biomarkers, your body can cope for a long period of time before it then begins to plague.

699
00:35:00.137 --> 00:35:00.498
Yeah, yeah.

700
00:35:00.838 --> 00:35:06.180
We also know that perhaps when we get to that early 30 age, we all sort of say, when would you want to go back to early 30s?

701
00:35:06.200 --> 00:35:10.181
A little bit more knowledge, a bit of a, I understand my body, I know what to do.

702
00:35:10.761 --> 00:35:14.742
And I think from there is when it begins to just change.

703
00:35:14.782 --> 00:35:15.823
35, we always say, what?

704
00:35:16.103 --> 00:35:17.923
At 35 is when everything goes downhill.

705
00:35:17.943 --> 00:35:18.664
Everyone said to me, Jess.

706
00:35:18.684 --> 00:35:20.844
You're in the mirror and you go, my face is like change.

707
00:35:20.904 --> 00:35:21.224
I know.

708
00:35:21.265 --> 00:35:23.565
Honestly, everyone said to me, Jess, wait till you're 35.

709
00:35:23.925 --> 00:35:25.626
It's all going to go downhill.

710
00:35:25.746 --> 00:35:27.306
And I'm like, no, it's not.

711
00:35:27.747 --> 00:35:28.227
No, it's not.

712
00:35:29.367 --> 00:35:30.349
Just turned 35.

713
00:35:30.369 --> 00:35:32.932
And I was like looking at him around going, oh, my God.

714
00:35:33.433 --> 00:35:34.415
Why does my knee hurt?

715
00:35:34.775 --> 00:35:35.156
Yeah.

716
00:35:35.176 --> 00:35:37.319
Like, where did this ripple come from?

717
00:35:38.040 --> 00:35:38.540
I'm still 35.

718
00:35:38.581 --> 00:35:40.724
Can I go backwards?

719
00:35:41.024 --> 00:35:42.626
But yeah, it is 35.

720
00:35:42.746 --> 00:35:43.448
It just went down.

721
00:35:43.468 --> 00:35:44.108
But then also like…

722
00:35:44.649 --> 00:35:49.513
I've also got adult money now to kind of, you know, really invest in our health.

723
00:35:49.553 --> 00:35:51.654
But also in, yeah, in all this.

724
00:35:51.974 --> 00:35:52.895
All this amazing.

725
00:35:52.955 --> 00:35:54.416
Yeah, testing and all that sort of stuff.

726
00:35:54.436 --> 00:35:55.137
And it's, you know, you kind of.

727
00:35:55.157 --> 00:35:55.937
You've got the knowledge.

728
00:35:56.017 --> 00:35:56.458
Yeah.

729
00:35:56.498 --> 00:36:01.241
You kind of, when you get to 35, I noticed like, I was like, always wanting to look older, feel older.

730
00:36:01.301 --> 00:36:05.064
And then I got to 35, I'm like, no, I need to like go backwards.

731
00:36:05.404 --> 00:36:06.085
Yeah.

732
00:36:06.125 --> 00:36:07.826
I want to pause the clock.

733
00:36:07.846 --> 00:36:08.967
Pause the clock.

734
00:36:09.467 --> 00:36:18.295
So from the research we have so far, where do you think the science around epigenetics testing looks more promising and where is more research still needed?

735
00:36:18.830 --> 00:36:25.252
I think globally there needs to be more research in terms of what each individual biomarker sort of means in many respects.

736
00:36:25.752 --> 00:36:28.712
What we're working through right now is patterns and pattern recognition.

737
00:36:29.233 --> 00:36:31.413
And I think we need to refine those patterns further.

738
00:36:31.893 --> 00:36:36.855
It's a bit interesting, you know, sometimes we sort of find we have a disease like we have MND right now.

739
00:36:36.895 --> 00:36:40.956
And, you know, unfortunately we sort of had this circumstance with Neil Danaher and Jai Arrow in the NRL.

740
00:36:40.976 --> 00:36:42.336
Yeah, that's devastating.

741
00:36:42.356 --> 00:36:42.456
Yeah.

742
00:36:42.636 --> 00:36:51.222
And I think as time's gone on, what we're recognizing is the fact that MND is almost like a larger picture of neurological disorders, which we haven't yet been able to distinguish.

743
00:36:52.183 --> 00:36:58.007
I think with our biomarkers and our epigenomics, what we're beginning to do is we're scraping the surface of what is possible.

744
00:36:58.687 --> 00:37:06.430
And I think what we're doing is we sort of work out more and more in terms of what happens from each in particular organ sort of system and the correlations that otherwise happen.

745
00:37:06.810 --> 00:37:13.253
Now, I think AI is certainly largely helping us a lot in terms of deciphering what is possible and what is probable in these sort of circumstances.

746
00:37:13.933 --> 00:37:20.396
So more research certainly needs to be put in at all levels, be it at the DNA level, at that epigenomic biomarker level.

747
00:37:20.796 --> 00:37:25.038
And I think a lot of that will come from research which is, if I say government-backed...

748
00:37:26.018 --> 00:37:30.381
The difficult part for us with research is the fact that much of it is driven by the private sector.

749
00:37:30.982 --> 00:37:37.167
And unfortunately, like all private sectors, the reason that they'll do research in many things is because they can monetize these circumstances.

750
00:37:37.707 --> 00:37:43.952
Now, there's not a lot you can actually monetize about epigenomics per se because it will just tell you about your condition apart from the test itself.

751
00:37:44.632 --> 00:37:49.136
Be that you can argue in terms of peptides in certain situations, everyone will try and monetize everything.

752
00:37:49.849 --> 00:37:53.050
Unless this is driven through government sort of funding, we won't get anywhere.

753
00:37:53.130 --> 00:37:57.352
Now, medicine largely as a body will see epigenomics as a trend.

754
00:37:57.932 --> 00:38:06.835
They don't see it as a science absolutely yet because we don't see any defined outcomes and an ability to provide something which will absolutely change something.

755
00:38:07.395 --> 00:38:10.898
So I think it'll take a body of movement and I think we're finding that that's happening now.

756
00:38:11.378 --> 00:38:16.963
And then as there's more and more interest in this situation, it will drive the trend and we'll do more and more and more.

757
00:38:17.323 --> 00:38:23.488
But I hold a lot of hope in that AI will help us data crunch everything that we otherwise know.

758
00:38:23.508 --> 00:38:27.611
And I think there are multiple fields which don't think that they're actually related right now.

759
00:38:28.092 --> 00:38:30.814
And I think what we will find is the fact that they are very, very related.

760
00:38:30.834 --> 00:38:31.154
Yeah.

761
00:38:31.434 --> 00:38:32.815
So that's the trend that I otherwise see.

762
00:38:32.835 --> 00:38:34.436
We're finding the same thing with drugs right now.

763
00:38:34.916 --> 00:38:42.899
Drugs which were made for an anti-cancer treatment, all of a sudden we're working out because we've otherwise data banked and libraryed this DNA in these genomes.

764
00:38:43.640 --> 00:38:47.282
We can use that drug now for this condition which we never even thought about.

765
00:38:47.402 --> 00:38:48.062
And is that through AI?

766
00:38:48.182 --> 00:38:48.282
AI.

767
00:38:48.782 --> 00:38:49.042
Right.

768
00:38:50.383 --> 00:38:52.544
And so that's largely where things are going to go, I think.

769
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:54.301
This is really interesting.

770
00:38:54.641 --> 00:39:02.064
I think the thing is a lot of people have been scared of doing all this testing, like your MRIs and your ECGs and lots of stuff.

771
00:39:02.084 --> 00:39:02.284
Your DEXs.

772
00:39:02.484 --> 00:39:12.487
Yeah, and finding something and then it's going to somehow ruin insurance, like life insurance and stuff.

773
00:39:12.527 --> 00:39:18.430
So if you find something, it's like, well, life insurance, like, well, if you've been tested for that, we're now not going to cover you for it.

774
00:39:19.847 --> 00:39:20.911
Is that still a thing?

775
00:39:20.952 --> 00:39:22.758
Is that why a lot of people are not doing it?

776
00:39:22.779 --> 00:39:24.164
Yes, I get that asked a lot too.

777
00:39:24.204 --> 00:39:24.967
You know, like –

778
00:39:25.791 --> 00:39:29.692
It's interesting, you know, a lot of the testings that we otherwise do be that epigenomic testing.

779
00:39:30.413 --> 00:39:32.033
And I guess this is a consumer answer.

780
00:39:32.133 --> 00:39:33.694
I de-identified all that information.

781
00:39:33.914 --> 00:39:34.374
It's yours.

782
00:39:34.974 --> 00:39:37.475
And largely DNA testing, I always leave to the individual.

783
00:39:37.615 --> 00:39:39.896
I don't want to be a part of anyone's DNA for that matter.

784
00:39:40.356 --> 00:39:40.856
It's yours.

785
00:39:41.016 --> 00:39:41.996
It's exclusive to you.

786
00:39:42.176 --> 00:39:43.437
You decide whether it gets held.

787
00:39:43.857 --> 00:39:45.757
You decide where it gets held.

788
00:39:45.777 --> 00:39:48.959
There might be people who do it overseas in Korea or Taiwan or whatever.

789
00:39:49.499 --> 00:39:50.799
Or do you get it done in South Yarra?

790
00:39:51.139 --> 00:39:51.339
Yeah.

791
00:39:51.359 --> 00:39:53.320
And we have a company here in Australia that does it very well.

792
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:55.661
So, or do you decide I want it destroyed?

793
00:39:56.202 --> 00:39:58.303
It's really an interesting sort of product.

794
00:39:58.824 --> 00:40:06.789
So in terms of insurance companies, whether you want the testing done in the name of Mickey Mouse, whether you want the testing done in the name of a number, it's your call.

795
00:40:07.309 --> 00:40:08.850
It's your information to you.

796
00:40:09.051 --> 00:40:13.313
But if you did find something a bit skewed, do you have to declare that legally to insurance companies?

797
00:40:13.414 --> 00:40:14.895
It depends on what the insurance company is.

798
00:40:15.035 --> 00:40:15.215
Yeah.

799
00:40:15.235 --> 00:40:15.435
Yeah.

800
00:40:15.595 --> 00:40:17.097
I think it's a life insurance or it's health insurance.

801
00:40:17.117 --> 00:40:18.918
Yeah, so people are like, I don't want to know.

802
00:40:19.078 --> 00:40:25.305
So health insurance is an interesting one because for pre-existing conditions, you need to otherwise then they won't cover you for 12 months.

803
00:40:25.325 --> 00:40:28.848
And it's like I didn't know I had any pre-existing until I did all these scans and now I've got all these things.

804
00:40:28.928 --> 00:40:30.149
Now I want top, top cover.

805
00:40:30.189 --> 00:40:31.010
Top cover.

806
00:40:31.170 --> 00:40:32.612
Lighten them.

807
00:40:34.113 --> 00:40:38.617
Well, maybe take out the top top cover and then do the testing for a month.

808
00:40:38.797 --> 00:40:42.880
Does it come with one million Qantas points if I signed up with this now?

809
00:40:43.861 --> 00:40:53.489
I know that's a huge thing because when I was looking at getting genetic testing stuff done and everything, I was going, oh, maybe I don't want to do it because is that going to stuff up my health insurance or life insurance?

810
00:40:53.509 --> 00:40:58.293
What would happen if you didn't find out, you didn't do anything about it, you are going to claim on your life insurance.

811
00:40:58.653 --> 00:41:00.094
You don't want to claim on your life insurance.

812
00:41:00.114 --> 00:41:01.075
No, no, exactly.

813
00:41:01.095 --> 00:41:06.560
You want to know something so you can do something about it and therefore insurance – this is an insurance policy in a sense.

814
00:41:06.580 --> 00:41:07.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

815
00:41:07.761 --> 00:41:08.721
Do you know what I did?

816
00:41:09.182 --> 00:41:14.286
I just like upped my insurance to full platinum, then did my genetic testing and I'm like, well, I don't –

817
00:41:15.267 --> 00:41:16.087
I didn't know at the time.

818
00:41:16.107 --> 00:41:16.928
I know at the time.

819
00:41:16.948 --> 00:41:17.829
We can date stamp it.

820
00:41:17.849 --> 00:41:19.070
You can date stamp it.

821
00:41:19.090 --> 00:41:20.871
Yep, I'm good.

822
00:41:20.911 --> 00:41:21.692
That was so good.

823
00:41:21.712 --> 00:41:22.732
That's such a great chat.

824
00:41:22.772 --> 00:41:24.274
Thank you so much.

825
00:41:24.294 --> 00:41:25.535
That's so good.

826
00:41:25.555 --> 00:41:31.039
Yeah, like I said, when I posted about it on my Instagram, everyone was asking me more about it.

827
00:41:31.059 --> 00:41:41.167
So thank you for coming in and explaining what it is, you know, what the limitations are, but also how you get to that age and then what you can do with that data.

828
00:41:41.507 --> 00:41:43.188
A big space, lots more to come in that.

829
00:41:43.348 --> 00:41:43.969
Yeah, lots more.

830
00:41:44.409 --> 00:41:44.790
Yeah.

831
00:41:44.950 --> 00:41:45.852
So thank you, Jason.

832
00:41:45.892 --> 00:41:46.333
That's okay.

833
00:41:46.353 --> 00:41:47.014
Thank you very much.

834
00:41:47.335 --> 00:41:49.739
We'll see you next week for another episode of Veinish.

835
00:41:50.019 --> 00:41:50.400
Bye.

836
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:50.901
Bye for now.