WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.071 --> 00:00:07.976 Hey Bankless Nation, today on the show I talk to Eric Conner and Andy8052 about all the activity happening in and around meme coins and crypto. 2 00:00:08.696 --> 00:00:19.383 There's the paired tokenized stock meme coin activity happening on Robinhood Chain, there's conversations around FOMO and what their FOMO strategies are, and also just their do's and don'ts around meme coin trading. 3 00:00:20.043 --> 00:00:23.124 So this is a meme coin episode, and it's not for everyone. 4 00:00:23.244 --> 00:00:26.566 I don't recommend meme coins, but nonetheless, I do partake in them. 5 00:00:26.886 --> 00:00:29.507 And I remain kind of curious about what the future might hold. 6 00:00:30.047 --> 00:00:35.169 Meme coins are a sector of crypto, and that sector progresses and innovates like all the others. 7 00:00:35.589 --> 00:00:38.851 And I want to make sure that I stay on top of that weird corner of the internet. 8 00:00:39.551 --> 00:00:41.133 So that's your disclaimer. 9 00:00:41.673 --> 00:00:43.956 If meme coins aren't for you, feel free to skip this episode. 10 00:00:44.336 --> 00:00:49.161 But if you want to stay up to speed about what's happening or if you're just curious about what's going on in the trenches, feel free to tune in. 11 00:00:49.181 --> 00:00:50.522 So let's get into my conversation with Andy and Eric. 12 00:00:50.583 --> 00:00:52.825 So let's get into my conversation with Andy and Eric. 13 00:00:55.447 --> 00:00:56.728 Eric, Andy, welcome back. 14 00:00:56.848 --> 00:00:58.148 Hey David, good to be back. 15 00:00:58.168 --> 00:00:58.608 Thanks for having me. 16 00:00:58.848 --> 00:01:01.569 Seems like another cycle is upon us. 17 00:01:02.210 --> 00:01:07.732 Andy, Eric, we all became friends during DeFi summer and that was a while ago. 18 00:01:08.392 --> 00:01:19.937 I want to get you guys on the show just because I want to get grounded a little bit as we enter what seems to be like a little bit of froth in the market now and if you know the cycle plays out. 19 00:01:20.597 --> 00:01:23.180 as they normally do, it will only get frothier. 20 00:01:23.220 --> 00:01:28.827 And so now I think is some of the time to get our bearings about what this all kind of looks like. 21 00:01:29.568 --> 00:01:34.353 A lot of this trading behavior, the FOMO, meme coin behavior has been around for a while, but it's definitely picking up steam. 22 00:01:35.114 --> 00:01:38.298 So maybe I can kind of like start the conversation with this kind of just zooming out. 23 00:01:39.379 --> 00:01:46.542 Memecoins have been both incredibly durable and are individually incredibly not durable. 24 00:01:47.082 --> 00:01:49.723 Like most of them go to zero. 25 00:01:49.823 --> 00:01:54.945 But as a meta, we are still doing memecoins over and over and over again. 26 00:01:54.985 --> 00:01:57.706 Like we had the first memecoin bull market of 2024. 27 00:01:57.726 --> 00:01:57.866 Yeah. 28 00:01:59.427 --> 00:02:03.709 And as an industry, that kind of did zero for adoption. 29 00:02:04.250 --> 00:02:11.533 And I would say like the industry took an L thanks to meme coins as like a brand identity for the industry. 30 00:02:12.154 --> 00:02:16.696 And then here we are again in the latter half of 2026 going on 2027. 31 00:02:17.196 --> 00:02:23.140 And FOMO and meme coins are kind of like once again the meta. 32 00:02:24.060 --> 00:02:29.287 And I bring up the fact that we all kind of started in DeFi summer, and then after that was NFT mania. 33 00:02:29.327 --> 00:02:37.416 Previous cycles have all kind of looked different to each other, and now we're entering another cycle, and it's kind of the same meta of meme coins. 34 00:02:37.697 --> 00:02:40.019 Again, the question I want to ask you guys is like, 35 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:45.885 are we as an industry kind of just stuck in this meme coin meta and that's kind of the way it is? 36 00:02:46.525 --> 00:02:48.667 Eric, you're the biggest veteran out of all of us. 37 00:02:48.687 --> 00:02:49.468 Maybe I'll throw that one to you. 38 00:02:49.608 --> 00:02:50.749 Yeah, I mean, I think so. 39 00:02:50.949 --> 00:02:52.310 It's ironic, of course, right? 40 00:02:52.350 --> 00:02:57.455 Robinhood finally starts tokenizing things like stocks and the first thing people do with it is create meme stocks, right? 41 00:02:57.515 --> 00:02:57.855 It's just... 42 00:02:58.315 --> 00:03:01.439 It's just where I think finance in general is slowly going. 43 00:03:01.819 --> 00:03:03.841 And we're just on the frontier here. 44 00:03:04.161 --> 00:03:05.783 Yeah, I mean, I think it'll always be the meta. 45 00:03:05.883 --> 00:03:12.210 I think one thing we've seen in the past, the problem, like you brought up NFTs, DeFi Summer, what happens is someone creates a cool concept. 46 00:03:12.230 --> 00:03:15.713 Like I remember the first time I farmed during DeFi Summer was on Compound, right? 47 00:03:15.733 --> 00:03:17.195 It was just kind of a new concept. 48 00:03:17.475 --> 00:03:27.242 And then everyone takes that and there's like this Cambrian explosion of either farming or NFTs or memes and the capital just starts to get spread thinner and thinner. 49 00:03:27.282 --> 00:03:27.522 Right. 50 00:03:27.582 --> 00:03:35.848 So there are like core winners that come out of these cycles, like for example, crypto monks, you know, and the NFT craze, you know, there's obviously 51 00:03:36.448 --> 00:03:38.529 core DeFi protocols still around doing very well. 52 00:03:38.549 --> 00:03:39.930 Like, oh, wait, Uniswap and others. 53 00:03:40.410 --> 00:03:43.832 You know, there's been big meme coin winners that have gone to billions of dollars and more. 54 00:03:44.853 --> 00:03:48.735 But I think that's always a good meta, but I think it's getting a little bit more refined. 55 00:03:48.775 --> 00:03:53.277 I think with apps like FOMO, for example, there's finally some, like, social accountability. 56 00:03:53.378 --> 00:03:55.139 There's tabs as, like, the most held. 57 00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:57.020 I think we're seeing consolidation in two. 58 00:03:57.140 --> 00:03:57.420 I think... 59 00:03:57.900 --> 00:04:01.962 Yeah, there are a lot of coins that you buy into at a small cap and they just go straight to zero. 60 00:04:01.982 --> 00:04:05.704 But a lot of the most held coins over the last few months have actually done pretty well. 61 00:04:05.724 --> 00:04:08.665 AI, for example, just keeps cranking away every day. 62 00:04:08.685 --> 00:04:11.086 I think it's up to a $350 million market cap. 63 00:04:11.587 --> 00:04:13.528 But I think we're getting better... 64 00:04:14.644 --> 00:04:21.131 better social structure around this and just better apps for this to happen. 65 00:04:21.932 --> 00:04:24.034 I'm hoping not everything just goes to zero. 66 00:04:24.074 --> 00:04:28.138 And I do think there's some interesting things happening around meme stocks and things like that. 67 00:04:28.238 --> 00:04:33.244 So I think every cycle we go through, things get a little bit more refined, a little bit more mature. 68 00:04:33.264 --> 00:04:35.326 And I think we are seeing that with memes as well. 69 00:04:35.446 --> 00:04:35.566 Wow. 70 00:04:35.827 --> 00:04:42.048 I would argue that every cycle memes have been like at least a bit of an undertone of what happens. 71 00:04:42.108 --> 00:04:50.950 Like, I don't think that 2024 was the first time that meme coins were really like Dogecoin was, you know, one of the larger onboarding things to crypto in general. 72 00:04:51.850 --> 00:04:54.491 Like Shiba coin in 2021 went to like $40 billion. 73 00:04:54.511 --> 00:04:54.811 And so like. 74 00:04:59.504 --> 00:05:02.445 I think it's one of the few things that crypto is actually really good at. 75 00:05:02.785 --> 00:05:07.167 I was at the FOMO happy hour last night talking to someone about this. 76 00:05:07.207 --> 00:05:18.651 I think crypto has proven it's very good at speculation on both the sophisticated end with leverage and these different things and the degenerate end with memes. 77 00:05:19.532 --> 00:05:19.812 And crypto... 78 00:05:20.673 --> 00:05:29.619 I think to a certain extent, those are kind of just like two different sectors that are just never going to go away because crypto is like by far the best way to do it. 79 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:44.768 And we just finally like memes have caught up to like leverage trading as far as like the level of sophistication and support to where they've like, it feels like they're really coming on and it's this really big thing, but it's been happening for forever. 80 00:05:45.329 --> 00:05:47.430 It just like took a while to kind of formalize. 81 00:05:47.790 --> 00:05:58.466 I guess the question that I would like to have answered is like, does the meme coin sector of the internet like grow up, get refined, get a little bit more polished? 82 00:05:58.927 --> 00:06:00.770 It's never going to enter suit territory. 83 00:06:00.810 --> 00:06:02.091 That would be just a complete... 84 00:06:02.592 --> 00:06:03.272 oxymoron. 85 00:06:03.713 --> 00:06:09.336 But does it become more accessible in a positive some way? 86 00:06:09.396 --> 00:06:12.938 Because like meme coins have like a very negative some brand. 87 00:06:13.158 --> 00:06:20.522 It's like you would never, ever advise your non-crypto sibling, parent, uncle to get into meme coins. 88 00:06:20.622 --> 00:06:22.143 No one should ever do that. 89 00:06:22.543 --> 00:06:22.683 But 90 00:06:23.283 --> 00:06:26.127 Does it, does there a way, is there a way for like meme coins? 91 00:06:26.187 --> 00:06:37.060 Are we going in a direction that just makes it a little bit more structurally sustainable, structurally sound rather than some of the PVP extraction that we've seen in cycles past? 92 00:06:37.220 --> 00:06:37.581 Yeah. 93 00:06:37.681 --> 00:06:38.442 I mean, I think so. 94 00:06:38.462 --> 00:06:38.482 I 95 00:06:38.602 --> 00:06:41.185 I think we're seeing maturity on the financial side. 96 00:06:41.225 --> 00:06:46.312 I mean, Andy hinted at a little bit, but I mean, for example, you can go trade perps on AI. 97 00:06:46.352 --> 00:06:51.459 Like these meme coins are getting listed quickly on perp exchanges and that creates a more mature market. 98 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:53.261 All of a sudden people can short it if they want. 99 00:06:53.281 --> 00:06:54.442 They can use leverage that just... 100 00:06:54.983 --> 00:06:58.287 takes away some volatility and kind of evens the playing field. 101 00:06:59.569 --> 00:07:01.030 Yeah, I think so. 102 00:07:01.151 --> 00:07:04.014 I mean, I do think there's a lot around social accountability. 103 00:07:04.054 --> 00:07:11.764 I know I brought that up earlier, but one of the reasons I didn't really get into memes too much, I mean, recovering ETH Maxie, that's one reason, but the other is... 104 00:07:13.125 --> 00:07:15.328 you just, there's cabals behind the scenes. 105 00:07:15.348 --> 00:07:16.569 You just know they're there, right? 106 00:07:16.629 --> 00:07:19.452 And like if you buy a little late, you're probably gonna get dumped on. 107 00:07:19.612 --> 00:07:21.374 And like, sure, I'm not naive. 108 00:07:21.394 --> 00:07:24.237 Like I know that's still happening, even with apps like FOMO. 109 00:07:24.257 --> 00:07:25.679 People can have sidewalls and things. 110 00:07:25.739 --> 00:07:30.224 But I do think it's adding a bit of social, like accountability to the meme layer. 111 00:07:30.264 --> 00:07:31.345 And that is important. 112 00:07:32.366 --> 00:07:39.937 If you go in there and you see some of the top holders average hold a long time and they aren't just pump and dumpers, you feel a little bit more comfortable. 113 00:07:39.998 --> 00:07:43.082 And before these apps existed, you just didn't know that. 114 00:07:43.102 --> 00:07:46.367 You could kind of go look at Wallets on Chain, but normies aren't doing that. 115 00:07:46.567 --> 00:07:48.270 So I do think that'll help a lot with that. 116 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:53.531 Yeah, I always joke with meme coins that like, if you don't have the insider information, someone else does. 117 00:07:53.551 --> 00:08:01.214 And you are like, you are very actively in like an information asymmetry trade, kind of all of the time with meme coins. 118 00:08:01.974 --> 00:08:05.835 I also think sort of an underrated aspect that hasn't really... 119 00:08:06.735 --> 00:08:09.117 and it hasn't really publicly become a thing yet. 120 00:08:09.778 --> 00:08:14.061 But I do think that AI actually can meaningfully help here as well. 121 00:08:14.542 --> 00:08:21.948 As far as just like getting, you know, there's really good meme coin traders who I'm friends with who already have their own tooling built themselves. 122 00:08:21.988 --> 00:08:34.439 But for analyzing like how many people who are all probably the same person own this token, what's the, how much is bundled, how much is owned by some small group of people, are those people selling whenever there's volume? 123 00:08:34.479 --> 00:08:35.140 And like, 124 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:40.443 As we see, like, Jev was just announced kind of two days ago, and I'm really interested. 125 00:08:40.463 --> 00:08:44.845 I'm going to spend some time this weekend hacking with that on, like, analyzing. 126 00:08:44.865 --> 00:08:45.626 Talk about what that is. 127 00:08:45.646 --> 00:08:46.066 What's Jev? 128 00:08:46.686 --> 00:08:54.151 Yeah, so Jev is, it's made by one of the former founders or, like, very early members of OpenAI. 129 00:08:54.991 --> 00:09:04.857 And it's a new model that is a bit unique comparatively to, say, you know, ChatGPT or Claude because it's not a natural language model. 130 00:09:05.598 --> 00:09:09.963 You can prompt it in natural language, but it does not respond in natural language. 131 00:09:10.083 --> 00:09:15.089 You kind of give it structured outputs that you want, and then it will give you its like probabilistic answers. 132 00:09:15.269 --> 00:09:17.812 So it'll say like 95% yes, 5% no, things like that. 133 00:09:20.695 --> 00:09:25.018 And what that allows for is it is really, really fast and really cheap comparatively. 134 00:09:25.978 --> 00:09:40.928 And so I think that as these sorts of things come out and models get better and faster and cheaper, I think that you could probably using Jev make something where you paste a smart contract address in of a token and say, analyze this meme coin. 135 00:09:41.068 --> 00:09:42.189 Is it bundled? 136 00:09:42.489 --> 00:09:43.549 Has this been done before? 137 00:09:43.630 --> 00:09:45.371 Is it safe, relatively speaking? 138 00:09:45.391 --> 00:09:45.811 Yeah. 139 00:09:47.051 --> 00:09:52.513 and get a really fast answer that is actionable in a way that currently there's not a lot of insight there. 140 00:09:52.533 --> 00:09:55.474 You have to really know what you're doing to analyze those types of things. 141 00:09:55.774 --> 00:10:03.217 Maybe just to kind of trace over what we've talked about so far, I kind of opened up this conversation with a little bit of frustration of those like, oh, meme coins again. 142 00:10:03.397 --> 00:10:07.659 Like the crypto as an innovation layer, we're only going so far. 143 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:16.465 But what we've seen with FOMO, what Eric said with FOMO, was like, actually, we're getting an illuminated social graph, and that is actually progress. 144 00:10:16.505 --> 00:10:23.411 If we're talking about the tech tree of meme coins, FOMO truly unlocked something with the social graph. 145 00:10:23.811 --> 00:10:32.539 And Andy, I think what you're pointing to is like there are even further steps down that meme coin tech tree that's not really on chain. 146 00:10:32.739 --> 00:10:33.700 It's not on Solana. 147 00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:34.981 It's not on Robinhood chain. 148 00:10:35.001 --> 00:10:35.862 It's not in the EDM. 149 00:10:36.102 --> 00:10:39.044 But it is in like the social and information layer. 150 00:10:39.605 --> 00:10:48.252 And using AI, we can round out some of the pokey edges of the meme coin sector of the Internet to, to, to, 151 00:10:49.188 --> 00:11:02.034 I don't want to say make it more palatable to mainstream society, but just make it more accessible, less dangerous, less toxic, and potentially more positive sum for everyone involved. 152 00:11:02.054 --> 00:11:04.335 And that's going to be from the information and social layer. 153 00:11:05.709 --> 00:11:07.351 Yeah, I think... Hopefully. 154 00:11:07.951 --> 00:11:08.552 Yeah, exactly. 155 00:11:08.592 --> 00:11:13.196 I think with that AI tooling, what Andy was saying, like that, yeah, that should help with quality. 156 00:11:13.216 --> 00:11:19.041 Like if everyone can kind of build their own tooling very easy in AI and plug an address in quick and look for red flags. 157 00:11:19.061 --> 00:11:22.023 Like previously, you kind of had to rely on like deck screener, you know, at the bottom right. 158 00:11:22.043 --> 00:11:23.164 It would have a couple flags. 159 00:11:23.604 --> 00:11:26.747 Now anybody, like this idea guy summer, right, with AI, so... 160 00:11:28.148 --> 00:11:29.449 Anybody can code this up. 161 00:11:29.489 --> 00:11:37.474 And in theory, hopefully that prevents over time people from hopping into scams and bundled tokens and cabal dumps and stuff like that. 162 00:11:37.594 --> 00:11:38.795 But that'll take time. 163 00:11:38.955 --> 00:11:44.438 And I'm sure people will package Twim up like this online and offer it and stuff like that. 164 00:11:45.019 --> 00:11:49.261 And at the same time, someone else will use the same AI tools to get better at bundling scams. 165 00:11:49.782 --> 00:11:52.944 And so it'll always be a game of cat and mouse with that stuff. 166 00:11:53.084 --> 00:11:53.684 For sure. 167 00:11:53.724 --> 00:11:54.665 That's just kind of the... 168 00:11:55.537 --> 00:12:02.001 like the realistic part of the meme coin industry in general, but you can at least try to position yourself better. 169 00:12:02.521 --> 00:12:18.029 That is like, to me, the interesting thing about meme coins is that they, it is like Bitcoin on the farthest end of the spectrum is a shelling point of attention and it captures value and it like sucks everything in because it's Bitcoin, now it is the meme. 170 00:12:18.329 --> 00:12:19.470 And then meme coins are on the other end. 171 00:12:19.490 --> 00:12:22.692 It's like, no, no, no, no, we like cycle through these things and that's kind of the point. 172 00:12:22.732 --> 00:12:24.593 Like every once in a while we get a sticky one 173 00:12:25.133 --> 00:12:36.243 But if meme coins, meme coins are like almost by design, not durable because so many people want to like hop and move on their capital from the next to the next to the next meme coin. 174 00:12:36.263 --> 00:12:38.485 And that's kind of like a feature for some of these traders. 175 00:12:38.525 --> 00:12:40.306 That's where the fun comes from. 176 00:12:40.326 --> 00:12:42.068 That's where the entertainment comes from. 177 00:12:42.708 --> 00:12:43.369 And it's hard. 178 00:12:43.529 --> 00:12:47.513 It makes it hard to reason about because nothing is durable in this space. 179 00:12:47.693 --> 00:12:48.434 And so like, 180 00:12:49.640 --> 00:12:59.870 making it like, like talking about it to anyone who's not in the meme coin sector is always terrible because they like, you're advocating that you like, keep up with the meta. 181 00:13:00.770 --> 00:13:05.455 And so it's just like a weird property of meme coins that you don't really find anywhere else. 182 00:13:05.495 --> 00:13:07.817 It's like the lack of durability is kind of the point. 183 00:13:08.217 --> 00:13:10.178 Yeah, it's very much an attention economy. 184 00:13:10.358 --> 00:13:17.201 Let's talk about the stock paired meme coins, because this is like the one bit of like innovation that we've seen out of the meme coin meta. 185 00:13:17.241 --> 00:13:19.302 I don't know where this came from. 186 00:13:19.482 --> 00:13:25.065 Was this, we've used AI twice on this episode, one in the traditional sense, meaning artificial intelligence. 187 00:13:25.125 --> 00:13:29.727 And then Eric brought up AI, which is a meme coin, artificial inu. 188 00:13:30.027 --> 00:13:35.390 Was that ground zero for stock paired meme coins or what was ground zero for stock paired meme coins? 189 00:13:35.775 --> 00:13:38.318 I couldn't tell you what the first stock paired meme coin was. 190 00:13:38.358 --> 00:13:46.125 There probably were some before AI, but AI was kind of the first one to hit some amount of like escape velocity, I would say. 191 00:13:46.806 --> 00:13:51.630 So I would, I think for like, that conversation, it is ground zero. 192 00:13:51.811 --> 00:13:55.694 It was like Mars coin on Binance chain, which is paired with SpaceX. 193 00:13:55.875 --> 00:13:58.157 That was also very early, but yeah. 194 00:13:58.417 --> 00:14:04.920 So artificial Inu AI, it's fitting like the dog Shiba Inu meme coin form factor. 195 00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:06.920 So it's a homage to Shiba Inu. 196 00:14:07.421 --> 00:14:09.341 And then it's paired with NVIDIA. 197 00:14:09.461 --> 00:14:12.062 And right now it's like at a $350 million market cap. 198 00:14:12.203 --> 00:14:16.304 I'm using that as like a bellwether for the stock paired meme coin. 199 00:14:16.324 --> 00:14:23.047 So if that thing continues to go up, I'm like, okay, it's remains safe to have exposure to the sector of stock paired meme coins. 200 00:14:23.087 --> 00:14:25.608 And if that goes down, I'm like, oh, maybe the cycle's up. 201 00:14:25.628 --> 00:14:25.708 So 202 00:14:26.068 --> 00:14:26.948 Is that a fair thing? 203 00:14:27.108 --> 00:14:35.951 Would you guys agree with that position of just the AI meme coin, artificial Inu, is like a bellwether for this whole meta that we're doing? 204 00:14:36.151 --> 00:14:37.171 Yeah, I think so. 205 00:14:37.271 --> 00:14:42.172 Everything kind of tracks it already, kind of like crypto general majors track Bitcoin. 206 00:14:42.212 --> 00:14:44.693 You see if AI is going up some of the other... 207 00:14:45.393 --> 00:14:47.533 larger stock coins go up and vice versa. 208 00:14:47.673 --> 00:14:49.034 And yeah, I think I would agree. 209 00:14:49.134 --> 00:14:50.794 AI is kind of the one that kicked it off. 210 00:14:50.894 --> 00:15:02.457 I mean, I would say in general, like Wong.xyz, you know, they kind of were the ones that kind of, you know, their platform enabled this and the largest stock paired meme coins generally so far from there. 211 00:15:02.497 --> 00:15:03.277 It's not totally true. 212 00:15:03.297 --> 00:15:09.258 There's other ones that are, that have done well, of course, but they're kind of like the, they kind of started the whole thing in my opinion. 213 00:15:10.177 --> 00:15:15.382 This long .xyz is a meme coin launchpad that specializes in stock-paired meme coins? 214 00:15:15.942 --> 00:15:18.044 Yeah, you can pair with... 215 00:15:18.464 --> 00:15:22.868 They were kind of the first to do the pairing launchpad with stocks that really kind of blew up. 216 00:15:23.269 --> 00:15:25.611 There's a lot of others out there doing it, but I feel like they... 217 00:15:26.211 --> 00:15:27.912 They've done really good at controlling their brand. 218 00:15:29.353 --> 00:15:34.017 They invest a lot of time in helping push coins that have been on their platform. 219 00:15:34.257 --> 00:15:35.738 They created AI. 220 00:15:36.999 --> 00:15:39.661 Long.XYG just kind of has the quality behind it right now. 221 00:15:39.721 --> 00:15:42.764 There's not a lot of just trash that's being launched there for whatever reason. 222 00:15:43.268 --> 00:15:50.970 And something else on top of that, I think for the same reason is they've started to implement some infrastructure to limit what can be launched. 223 00:15:51.590 --> 00:15:55.691 So, you know, traditionally with a meme coin, someone puts out something and it's good. 224 00:15:56.391 --> 00:16:03.252 Five other groups of people will all come together and make some scam version of the same thing, try to get momentum to become the biggest one. 225 00:16:03.812 --> 00:16:06.633 And just like people call it like vamp, like vampire attack. 226 00:16:07.233 --> 00:16:29.430 a meme coin on long they actually so any token that's launched that ticker is locked then for 24 hours after that so no one else can launch the same token for 24 hours uh and now i believe they've also implemented stuff where like tokens that have been out for a while and have also like ai for example or some of the other large coins like i don't believe you can ever launch that ticker again 227 00:16:30.510 --> 00:16:32.131 it's just like permanently locked now. 228 00:16:32.492 --> 00:16:43.859 And so I think that there's certain things like that that are actually quite valuable in the world of meme coins where it's just like, I think one of the challenges, but also fun parts is it's this, every day there's 10,000 more coins and it could be anything. 229 00:16:44.499 --> 00:16:49.342 One of the challenges is you get diluted in just 10 different AI coins and they're all fighting for the same thing. 230 00:16:49.782 --> 00:16:53.365 Whereas if everyone kind of comes together and says, okay, we like the coins on long, 231 00:16:53.965 --> 00:16:55.389 We're going to buy those and support those. 232 00:16:55.409 --> 00:16:57.896 And then you literally can't launch another AI. 233 00:16:58.357 --> 00:17:01.386 That's actually a pretty unique setup for memes. 234 00:17:02.313 --> 00:17:13.616 Isn't that kind of the whole game of launch pads is correctly producing strong shelling points in your specific meme coins and like corralling the dispersion towards your coins? 235 00:17:13.656 --> 00:17:16.457 I feel like that is that's how launch pads kind of compete, right? 236 00:17:16.977 --> 00:17:17.617 Yeah, for sure. 237 00:17:17.757 --> 00:17:18.638 They've done a good job at it. 238 00:17:18.658 --> 00:17:23.439 I mean, you can even like pair with AI, which has been, you know, a big thing for them. 239 00:17:23.959 --> 00:17:24.639 But yeah, I think. 240 00:17:24.679 --> 00:17:27.720 There's some coins worth a couple million dollars of market cap. 241 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:30.202 Yeah, exactly. 242 00:17:30.362 --> 00:17:36.185 So then, yeah, whoever buys the coin pair with AI, AI goes up and then underneath that, you know, there's NVIDIA and all that. 243 00:17:36.205 --> 00:17:38.567 So it just kind of, everything plays together. 244 00:17:38.727 --> 00:17:43.970 But yeah, I mean, I think they've done a good job with the limiting of tickers and just a focus on quality. 245 00:17:44.190 --> 00:17:46.232 I mean, I have a theory that basically every... 246 00:17:46.932 --> 00:17:53.497 every major stock is going to have one winning meme stock and that community will kind of be the meme stock for that stock. 247 00:17:53.537 --> 00:17:59.702 And I have an even bigger part of that theory where I think eventually these companies will embrace these meme stocks. 248 00:17:59.722 --> 00:18:04.906 We're already kind of seeing it with Hems and Boner a bit, but with like the CEO following Boner. 249 00:18:05.006 --> 00:18:08.669 And, you know, I've been on Hems House and the investor community seems very interested in it. 250 00:18:08.689 --> 00:18:09.490 But if you think about it, 251 00:18:10.030 --> 00:18:17.752 There's thousands of people holding these coins that are all pretty much interested in being just Long and the stock doing well and going up. 252 00:18:17.772 --> 00:18:22.273 Because if the stock goes up, it's paired with the coin, the coin goes up too. 253 00:18:22.993 --> 00:18:27.294 So I think Long did a good job at limiting the tickers and limiting just one per. 254 00:18:27.314 --> 00:18:30.195 Because I think that's what's going to happen in this meta to begin with. 255 00:18:30.607 --> 00:18:46.117 Well, and I think kind of like taking it a step further and one of the things that has kind of really spurred on this like stock paired meme coin thing, because, you know, if you just like if you sit down and just think for a second, you're like, it's no different than being paired against Ether, Bitcoin or Solana. 256 00:18:46.177 --> 00:18:46.497 Really? 257 00:18:46.717 --> 00:18:46.957 Yeah. 258 00:18:47.097 --> 00:18:49.239 It's just selling and buying behavior is exactly the same. 259 00:18:49.909 --> 00:18:52.912 Yeah, just the underlying asset, maybe you're more bullish on it. 260 00:18:52.952 --> 00:19:03.261 And so like, for those who are not familiar, when you're trading coins that are on an AMM, if the underlying asset goes up, your coin automatically goes up because they're paired together. 261 00:19:03.982 --> 00:19:10.888 And so you don't want to be paired against something that you think is gonna go down in price, because that makes it harder for your coin to go up in price. 262 00:19:11.668 --> 00:19:12.729 But I think the other kind of 263 00:19:13.832 --> 00:19:19.453 thing here, like Eric has kind of touched on, is there's sort of this unknown of what it could be long term. 264 00:19:20.013 --> 00:19:24.014 And it's this, we're getting regulatory clarity on these things all the time. 265 00:19:24.554 --> 00:19:28.335 And there's just like, you know, one of the memes that's paired with AI is called board sit. 266 00:19:28.915 --> 00:19:41.058 And the meme is that they're going to accumulate enough NVIDIA in the liquidity pool that AI token will get a board seat at NVIDIA, which, you know, they need to get like, 267 00:19:41.778 --> 00:19:43.159 some ridiculous valuation. 268 00:19:43.179 --> 00:19:46.061 NVIDIA is the hardest mode of all the assets to do. 269 00:19:46.081 --> 00:19:47.242 That's the hardest one to do. 270 00:19:47.262 --> 00:19:49.243 But like even could, is that even possible? 271 00:19:49.303 --> 00:19:49.784 Who knows? 272 00:19:49.824 --> 00:19:57.109 But it's this kind of new unknown thing that's fun and exciting of like, what if this happens? 273 00:19:57.269 --> 00:19:59.571 But then like, we don't really know what's going to happen. 274 00:19:59.951 --> 00:20:05.155 And that is able to get people much more interested than just like, okay, another coin paired with Solana. 275 00:20:06.055 --> 00:20:07.156 We know what this means. 276 00:20:07.176 --> 00:20:09.478 We know what kind of all of the rules of this. 277 00:20:09.998 --> 00:20:22.578 There's these unknown rules that no one knows and like how things can play out that gives people higher targets and more excitement and more belief that this could be some new thing, which I think is one of the big factors here. 278 00:20:23.177 --> 00:20:28.998 Yeah, the funniest thing about that point is I think Robinhood themselves doesn't even know sometimes how this is going to play out. 279 00:20:29.338 --> 00:20:30.539 I don't think anyone knows. 280 00:20:30.859 --> 00:20:31.679 Yeah, exactly. 281 00:20:31.719 --> 00:20:34.900 We even see Vlad kind of tweeting about, wait, can we do in kind? 282 00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:36.980 Is it truly back to one-to-one? 283 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:38.961 There's a lot of unknowns. 284 00:20:39.001 --> 00:20:50.143 One of the crazier things we see is if one of these takes off and there's not a lot of shares minted on-chain, all the shares get swallowed up by the pool and the price of the stock gets disconnected on-chain versus off, and then market makers have to step in. 285 00:20:50.163 --> 00:20:52.364 So yeah, it's a wild game. 286 00:20:53.084 --> 00:20:55.266 And yeah, I really don't. 287 00:20:55.446 --> 00:21:00.150 I mean, I have a theory where this is going, but there's so many unknowns when it comes to this right now. 288 00:21:00.370 --> 00:21:03.472 I had Johan from Robinhood on the show yesterday. 289 00:21:03.492 --> 00:21:04.313 I recorded him. 290 00:21:04.333 --> 00:21:06.174 I asked some of these questions, Eric. 291 00:21:06.855 --> 00:21:10.658 And so that episode will actually have already been out by the time this one comes out. 292 00:21:10.758 --> 00:21:18.424 And so if any listeners want to learn about LP pools and off-market trading price dislocations, I asked Johan about that. 293 00:21:18.584 --> 00:21:19.045 Perfect. 294 00:21:19.925 --> 00:21:28.597 So going back to the whole meme coin on the, you know, governance over public equities thing, like I'm of two minds about this. 295 00:21:29.699 --> 00:21:36.187 I wrote the HIMSS CEO an email to their to their press and and like also his email, just found his email. 296 00:21:36.948 --> 00:21:38.008 And this is what I do. 297 00:21:38.468 --> 00:21:39.609 This is how I find emails. 298 00:21:39.629 --> 00:21:41.649 So this is not anything unique or specific. 299 00:21:41.689 --> 00:21:43.790 But I wrote to him and he will say, hey, come on Bankless. 300 00:21:43.810 --> 00:21:48.571 I want to get your take about what's going on with your tokenized stock. 301 00:21:48.591 --> 00:21:52.352 I really made it more about the tokenized stock happening on Robinhood because that's the bigger subject. 302 00:21:52.872 --> 00:21:56.313 Because this was happening at the same time the AMC CEO was blasting Vlad. 303 00:21:57.073 --> 00:22:04.535 And so I just wanted to get a public market CEO's opinion about what it's like to have their stock tokenized on chain and what they think about that. 304 00:22:04.964 --> 00:22:08.145 Also, there was a line item that was like, oh, yeah, and what do you think about the meme coin? 305 00:22:08.705 --> 00:22:21.988 But I was doing a little bit of math of like, okay, is this even worth this man's time to come on this crypto podcast that he's probably never heard of before and like talk about his tokenized stock on Robinhood chain? 306 00:22:22.288 --> 00:22:26.809 And I went and I looked at how much of HIMSS tokenized stock there was on Robinhood chain. 307 00:22:26.909 --> 00:22:28.730 And then I looked at the market cap of HIMSS. 308 00:22:29.490 --> 00:22:31.272 And those two numbers are wildly different. 309 00:22:31.512 --> 00:22:37.297 It's like $3.5 million of tokenized stock on a $6.5 billion company. 310 00:22:37.937 --> 00:22:41.180 And so I'm like, no way is this man ever replying to this email. 311 00:22:41.340 --> 00:22:43.342 Like, this is not worth his time. 312 00:22:44.322 --> 00:22:46.284 And of course, he did not respond. 313 00:22:46.424 --> 00:22:47.365 I was ghosted. 314 00:22:47.585 --> 00:22:49.647 There's nothing is happening on that front. 315 00:22:49.927 --> 00:22:50.487 Worth a shot. 316 00:22:51.188 --> 00:23:00.195 But like, it seems wishful thinking to think that these public market CEOs are ever going to care about these meme coin communities. 317 00:23:00.575 --> 00:23:09.443 Because not only is there only $3.5 million of tokenized HEM stock on Robinhood chain, the boner meme coin LP pool only has like half of that. 318 00:23:09.703 --> 00:23:10.724 And so it's even smaller. 319 00:23:11.384 --> 00:23:12.986 So that's on one side of the spectrum. 320 00:23:13.406 --> 00:23:22.195 On the other side of the spectrum, Andy talked about how like Shiba Inu or whatever meme coin went to $40 billion in 2021. 321 00:23:22.756 --> 00:23:24.377 And so like that's the high watermark. 322 00:23:24.758 --> 00:23:27.881 And I think that's what gets people's imagination going. 323 00:23:28.301 --> 00:23:32.766 But nonetheless, we are so far away from that like possible future. 324 00:23:32.986 --> 00:23:33.847 Eric, how do you think about this? 325 00:23:34.007 --> 00:23:35.148 Yeah, a couple things. 326 00:23:35.188 --> 00:23:41.892 I think I'll start with, for now, the impact might not be there as far as a ton of shares tokenized on chain. 327 00:23:42.153 --> 00:23:46.195 Obviously, these are small ratios of market cap versus the actual stock market cap. 328 00:23:46.736 --> 00:23:54.801 But I think what a CEO of a smaller company could realize is the fandom that's being created and the marketing that's being created. 329 00:23:55.141 --> 00:23:57.503 So I had went on one of these hymns and badmintones. 330 00:23:57.863 --> 00:23:59.004 or podcast or whatever. 331 00:23:59.184 --> 00:24:04.926 And I haven't looked in a while, but I believe the video that he posted on Twitter got like 250,000 views. 332 00:24:05.166 --> 00:24:09.928 And like historically, his other videos got like 40 to 50,000. 333 00:24:10.388 --> 00:24:13.850 So, I mean, that's coming from the Bonar community in that case, right? 334 00:24:13.970 --> 00:24:19.612 And I'm sure if there was an NVIDIA investor call or something that AI was involved with. 335 00:24:19.632 --> 00:24:20.453 So I think... 336 00:24:21.273 --> 00:24:33.688 And like in my X feed, I'm seeing a lot of like him stuff and like things about their stock and like charts and like, so I think they could realize that all of a sudden you've gained 20,000 holders and these people are all of a sudden interested in your company. 337 00:24:33.948 --> 00:24:36.151 I don't think that they probably will 338 00:24:37.112 --> 00:24:41.854 care too much about the financial impact until one of these hits at least a couple billion probably. 339 00:24:41.874 --> 00:24:51.297 Now I will say like Boner, when it first started pumping, one of the days it did 10% of the volume that the actual HEM stock did on the traditional stock exchange. 340 00:24:51.797 --> 00:24:53.957 So the volume can get up there. 341 00:24:53.997 --> 00:24:59.359 The volume of Boner, not the volume of the HEM stock, but the trading volume. 342 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.540 Yeah, the trading volume on Robinhood. 343 00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:02.980 Yeah, it was like 10%. 344 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:04.701 So like you start to see, and I think, 345 00:25:06.321 --> 00:25:09.942 at one point, the market cap was like 1% or something like that as well. 346 00:25:10.022 --> 00:25:14.843 So all of a sudden, if one of these 20, 30X is over the next month or two, who knows? 347 00:25:14.863 --> 00:25:17.624 I'm not saying they're going to, but things could get interesting. 348 00:25:17.644 --> 00:25:19.404 I think this goes to Andy's point earlier. 349 00:25:19.804 --> 00:25:21.024 We don't know what's going to happen. 350 00:25:21.044 --> 00:25:22.485 So take an example. 351 00:25:22.545 --> 00:25:26.005 What if one of these does flip the market cap of the actual stock? 352 00:25:26.305 --> 00:25:26.905 What breaks? 353 00:25:27.266 --> 00:25:28.486 What happens? 354 00:25:29.106 --> 00:25:31.987 Do we even have the stocks to put on chain? 355 00:25:32.007 --> 00:25:32.607 I don't know. 356 00:25:32.627 --> 00:25:33.907 Shit, this will get weird. 357 00:25:33.927 --> 00:25:34.367 Yeah. 358 00:25:34.687 --> 00:25:40.573 Yeah, I think that's like a big part of it is there's just so much unknown that you can't price. 359 00:25:41.134 --> 00:25:55.467 And so it's just this like total mystery box of outcomes, which is typically in the history of like bull markets of kind of anything that's like kind of what you need is this like. 360 00:25:56.288 --> 00:26:03.456 Unknown thing that you can't price because you don't know what it is totally yet for people to get really excited about. 361 00:26:04.137 --> 00:26:08.361 And it kind of feels like that's what we've found here, even if it's just a meme coin. 362 00:26:08.401 --> 00:26:14.448 I've been trading crypto for almost a decade and I've used so many different wallets, exchanges, aggregators, different front ends over the years. 363 00:26:14.588 --> 00:26:16.410 And I'm always kind of looking for the same thing. 364 00:26:16.570 --> 00:26:26.575 Just one interface with deep liquidity across a bunch of chains and assets where I can access all the markets like perps, earn yield, trade confidentially and still control all my own funds. 365 00:26:26.896 --> 00:26:28.857 And I've never really found this experience. 366 00:26:28.897 --> 00:26:32.999 And I'm always switching wallets, juggling gas fees and just getting eaten by slippage. 367 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:34.940 Near.com is not that. 368 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:36.822 It feels fundamentally different to me. 369 00:26:36.902 --> 00:26:41.326 I can do everything I want from any chain, and I keep all my activity confidential. 370 00:26:41.527 --> 00:26:44.310 I can even earn yield confidentially. 371 00:26:44.550 --> 00:26:46.292 It's the way crypto should work. 372 00:26:46.492 --> 00:26:56.202 The Near.com wallet is powered by Near, and it's moved over $25 billion cross-chain using post-quantum signing and has run over five years on mainnet with zero downtime. 373 00:26:56.342 --> 00:26:59.604 Near.com is simply the best way to be on-chain and be in control. 374 00:26:59.725 --> 00:27:04.668 Get 20% of your trading fees back using the Bankless link in the show notes, not investment advice. 375 00:27:04.848 --> 00:27:06.449 Bankless Nation, we've built something for you. 376 00:27:06.630 --> 00:27:08.391 Introducing the Bankless MCP. 377 00:27:08.531 --> 00:27:19.519 ChatGPT and Claude are great at a lot of things, but ask them anything beyond the basics of crypto about protocol mechanics, tokenomics, or just what happened last week in crypto, and the gaps will start to show. 378 00:27:19.619 --> 00:27:20.560 The problem is context. 379 00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:25.667 Bankless, on the other hand, 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00:28:56.498 --> 00:29:04.166 I will say if you wanted to like paint a pretty strong picture before I say this, I'll say that Eric is very, very exposed to boner. 411 00:29:04.306 --> 00:29:05.767 I'm also exposed to boner. 412 00:29:05.847 --> 00:29:08.750 I don't think Andy has some, um, is that right? 413 00:29:08.770 --> 00:29:09.011 Andy? 414 00:29:09.431 --> 00:29:09.631 Yeah. 415 00:29:09.691 --> 00:29:09.931 Okay. 416 00:29:10.152 --> 00:29:10.452 No. 417 00:29:10.572 --> 00:29:10.732 Um, 418 00:29:11.593 --> 00:29:32.551 So if you wanted to construct like the perfect structural market structure setup, you would pick an equity that has a decent but not large market cap in the single digit billions perhaps that also had a very large outstanding short supply on his float, which HIMSS also has. 419 00:29:32.711 --> 00:29:37.275 And so HIMSS is a $6.5 billion market cap and 30% of the float is shorted. 420 00:29:38.128 --> 00:29:42.652 I don't know why it's shorted so well, but like maybe because people think like margins are going to compress. 421 00:29:42.992 --> 00:29:47.496 And so it's like, we are GME adjacent from 2021. 422 00:29:47.636 --> 00:29:49.117 Now we're in 2026. 423 00:29:49.718 --> 00:29:59.566 And so like that, I think it's like that structural setup of just like, oh, if this meme coin does things that have happened in the past to other meme coins, 424 00:30:00.485 --> 00:30:03.746 Like it's 30 X's and then the virality takes over. 425 00:30:03.806 --> 00:30:08.108 The short squeeze can like, the tail can wag the dog into the short squeeze on the public market. 426 00:30:08.608 --> 00:30:15.791 And I think that's like your structural setup that produces the most imagination, I think in the meme coin people. 427 00:30:16.151 --> 00:30:17.032 Yeah, I would agree with that. 428 00:30:17.112 --> 00:30:20.836 I mean, I think each meme stock community is going to go about it differently. 429 00:30:20.856 --> 00:30:27.704 I think some are going to go community focused and some are going to go, hey, there's a lot of short flow and this company has a low market cap. 430 00:30:27.804 --> 00:30:29.506 Can we run it up and see what gets weird? 431 00:30:30.166 --> 00:30:34.391 I mean, I think AMC's market cap is only like $2.5 billion or something like that. 432 00:30:34.631 --> 00:30:41.614 and there was one of the meme stocks for AMC ran up to like, I think 50 or 60 million or something like that. 433 00:30:41.714 --> 00:30:43.535 I mean, if all of a sudden that runs to a billion. 434 00:30:43.555 --> 00:30:44.455 It hit like 125 million. 435 00:30:44.475 --> 00:30:44.956 Yeah, you're right. 436 00:30:44.996 --> 00:30:45.336 It did. 437 00:30:45.376 --> 00:30:46.696 Yeah, that crazy night. 438 00:30:46.716 --> 00:30:53.539 So, I mean, you're talking about all of a sudden things, I mean, if it runs to a billion, it's half of the market cap of AMC, like what starts happening, right? 439 00:30:53.639 --> 00:30:57.801 And yeah, I mean, you're talking memes have run to, you know, 20, 30, 40 billion. 440 00:30:59.502 --> 00:31:01.423 Then it's going to start having an impact at that point. 441 00:31:01.755 --> 00:31:11.939 Yeah, and then I think the other kind of weird thing that could happen is we're starting to see some significantly smaller publicly traded companies go on chain as well. 442 00:31:12.239 --> 00:31:17.181 I don't own any of this, but there was one called like Vita that... 443 00:31:18.001 --> 00:31:42.302 like the i think it was vita or something like that where like they're literally trying they were trying to flip the market cap of the stock and like the ceo was like in he was like this is sick let's let's try uh and like it's like the coin was named like vita cto which stands for community takeover and the joke was like we're taking over vita by just like we're gonna flip the stock and just take over the company um 444 00:31:43.243 --> 00:31:54.174 And I think like that's probably for one of these, you know, I think the odds are they will at some point be a $30 million publicly traded company that ends up on chain that is flipped by a meme coin. 445 00:31:54.195 --> 00:31:56.257 Like, I think that's kind of an inevitability. 446 00:31:57.478 --> 00:32:01.742 And it's just a matter of like, which one is it and what happens when that happens? 447 00:32:02.523 --> 00:32:10.366 Yeah, it'd be interesting in that case, will they say like, let's try to just tokenize all our stock on chain, you know, like slowly just try to become the first fully token. 448 00:32:10.386 --> 00:32:17.989 Now, it's impossible to do like 100%, of course, but someone could just say, hey, let's try to just be the first fully Robinhood stock, you know. 449 00:32:19.110 --> 00:32:24.752 And I think the cool thing with that is you end up actually getting, you know, a lot of liquidity for your tokenized stocks through this. 450 00:32:24.872 --> 00:32:30.474 Like AI especially has like, let me pull up the exact numbers right now because I have it in front of me. 451 00:32:31.035 --> 00:32:31.595 But it has... 452 00:32:33.237 --> 00:32:35.878 $14 million of liquidity on-chain. 453 00:32:36.518 --> 00:32:37.018 Is that a lot? 454 00:32:37.038 --> 00:32:40.019 Which is a lot for a meme coin. 455 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:41.039 It's especially a lot. 456 00:32:41.159 --> 00:32:42.399 For these days, yeah. 457 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:53.281 But for a company's tokenized stock to bootstrap liquidity, there's almost no better way to bootstrap initial on-chain liquidity than meme coins. 458 00:32:53.722 --> 00:32:59.603 Because otherwise, you need some sort of retail flow to bid the stock on-chain. 459 00:33:00.363 --> 00:33:02.745 And the best way to do that is with meme coins. 460 00:33:02.785 --> 00:33:06.207 And so you end up with this really beneficial for you long term. 461 00:33:06.247 --> 00:33:18.796 If you think that having good liquidity on your stock on chain matters, then you probably want some meme coins that are launching against it to drive volume so that market makers come and LPs come to make money on that volume. 462 00:33:19.036 --> 00:33:20.017 Yeah, it's a really good point. 463 00:33:20.117 --> 00:33:22.018 So if a stock meme coin... 464 00:33:22.819 --> 00:33:34.445 gets launched and that LP pool grows and we have the meme coins on one side and the stock on the other and both go up, the meme coin goes up in market value and all of a sudden there's more LP, the LP pool is larger. 465 00:33:35.005 --> 00:33:41.469 You can bootstrap liquidity without ever touching USDC or any other like kind of denominated asset. 466 00:33:41.489 --> 00:33:44.210 Like that liquidity works for like dollar buyers. 467 00:33:44.530 --> 00:34:03.805 So what's happening there is, so in the case of, let's say, AI and NVIDIA, because it's the largest, at least when it first started, if you wanted to buy AI, let's say odds are you probably had either Ethereum or USDG, which is the stablecoin on Robinhood chain. 468 00:34:04.406 --> 00:34:07.188 So let's say for the sake of argument, you have Ethereum on Robinhood chain. 469 00:34:07.829 --> 00:34:10.250 You have to first, through Uniswap, go. 470 00:34:11.051 --> 00:34:18.015 buy NVIDIA tokenized stock, and then buy from that, sell the tokenized stock to buy AI. 471 00:34:18.375 --> 00:34:35.465 And so what that's doing, it's not, it's encouraging people to provide liquidity for the Ethereum NVIDIA pair, because any volume driving through AI has to be driven, again, early on, now there's way more liquidity pools and stuff, has to be driven through the Ethereum NVIDIA pair. 472 00:34:35.806 --> 00:34:39.348 And so if you're LPing there, you're just going to like make a ton of money. 473 00:34:40.108 --> 00:34:43.150 And that incentivizes LPs. 474 00:34:43.410 --> 00:34:48.614 And so then you can just provide liquidity for Ethereum and NVIDIA, have no risk to AI at all. 475 00:34:49.335 --> 00:34:56.700 And you're just making money from retail buying through FOMO or PumpFun app or all these different things because you're eating all the fees on Uniswap. 476 00:34:57.040 --> 00:34:57.681 That's wild. 477 00:34:58.646 --> 00:34:59.366 That's wild. 478 00:34:59.967 --> 00:35:01.507 Yeah. 479 00:35:01.647 --> 00:35:09.850 This is kind of like reminding me of like every, not every, but many of the good innovations that came out of crypto started with meme coins bootstrapping something. 480 00:35:10.891 --> 00:35:15.913 And like, why do we want like tokenized stocks on Robinhood chain or like anywhere? 481 00:35:16.787 --> 00:35:22.690 that you can't do already in your normal brokerage, your normal Charles Schwab or interactive brokers or whatever. 482 00:35:22.710 --> 00:35:24.050 It's like, well, because of this. 483 00:35:24.490 --> 00:35:34.594 Like you can do weird shenanigans like this that actually do create like positive market structure in the traditional asset in like the good normal ways. 484 00:35:35.355 --> 00:35:40.797 But just like it's the tale of meme coins that wagged the dog and you can't do that anywhere else. 485 00:35:41.455 --> 00:35:46.499 Yeah, and so like now Robinhood tokenized stocks on the weekends are extremely liquid. 486 00:35:46.779 --> 00:35:48.301 And that is only because of meme coins. 487 00:35:48.961 --> 00:35:55.026 Like obviously over time, I'm sure they would have spent money and resources paying to get liquidity on these things. 488 00:35:55.407 --> 00:35:57.268 And now they don't have to because meme coins did it for them. 489 00:35:57.488 --> 00:35:58.049 That's wild. 490 00:35:59.070 --> 00:35:59.570 That's wild. 491 00:36:00.311 --> 00:36:00.491 Yeah. 492 00:36:00.751 --> 00:36:05.175 And so that's where I think there's benefits that are much larger than like. 493 00:36:06.723 --> 00:36:08.603 a traditional pair on PumpFun or something. 494 00:36:08.944 --> 00:36:12.484 But now at PumpFun, every major launchpad has integrated this too. 495 00:36:12.764 --> 00:36:16.165 It's like the structural stuff like this that actually makes me somewhat optimistic about this meta. 496 00:36:16.565 --> 00:36:25.107 I want to go into, I want to ask some FOMO questions, just like strategy for using FOMO because I've been using FOMO more and more and more like most people who are in the trenches in this industry. 497 00:36:26.067 --> 00:36:28.507 And so I'll just kind of like run through some of these things. 498 00:36:29.528 --> 00:36:30.668 How do you find coins? 499 00:36:31.810 --> 00:36:35.192 Because like the whole idea of FOMO is that you can see what your friends are buying. 500 00:36:35.332 --> 00:36:45.276 So that's my dominant like coin discovery channel is like I see a notification popping up that Eric is buying this one cat coin. 501 00:36:45.336 --> 00:36:47.497 I see a notification that Andy's buying this one thing. 502 00:36:47.517 --> 00:36:48.038 I open it up. 503 00:36:48.878 --> 00:36:51.759 In that moment, I decide whether I like it or not. 504 00:36:52.099 --> 00:36:52.839 And that's kind of it. 505 00:36:53.479 --> 00:36:57.580 So like, is your coin discovery dominantly inside of FOMO? 506 00:36:57.780 --> 00:37:02.120 Or if it's not dominantly inside of FOMO, what is your coin discovery process? 507 00:37:02.321 --> 00:37:03.161 Andy, I'll start with you. 508 00:37:03.601 --> 00:37:06.401 Yeah, I would say for me, it's a bit different. 509 00:37:06.421 --> 00:37:08.062 I definitely use FOMO a lot. 510 00:37:10.142 --> 00:37:14.643 Primarily as like just general social graph tracking, seeing what people are 511 00:37:15.705 --> 00:37:16.526 Buying and selling. 512 00:37:16.546 --> 00:37:17.486 For the information side. 513 00:37:18.127 --> 00:37:19.588 Yeah. 514 00:37:19.608 --> 00:37:23.851 I am just in like a lot of degen chats of creators. 515 00:37:24.671 --> 00:37:30.515 And yeah, telegram chats and have like some bot tooling and stuff for new launches and things like that. 516 00:37:31.276 --> 00:37:35.059 So a lot of my information comes from telegram chats primarily. 517 00:37:35.919 --> 00:37:39.542 But that's not what the average person's lived experience is going to be. 518 00:37:40.962 --> 00:37:52.506 but I do think it is valuable to have some friends in a chat if you're trying to trade this stuff in any bit seriously and just even to bounce ideas off of or have someone say, hey, I found this, I think it's cool. 519 00:37:53.027 --> 00:37:56.008 It can give you a little bit more signal than what you see on FOMO. 520 00:37:56.428 --> 00:38:00.689 But there are certainly times where I'll see someone buy something on FOMO and I'll be like, oh, that's cool, I'll buy it. 521 00:38:01.349 --> 00:38:01.649 Okay. 522 00:38:02.110 --> 00:38:08.472 So like using FOMO exclusively is probably not positive EV who need more signal than just FOMO. 523 00:38:09.482 --> 00:38:11.103 I think it depends how you trade as well. 524 00:38:11.263 --> 00:38:14.945 If you're, you know, I like to sling around in the mud. 525 00:38:15.406 --> 00:38:17.467 I like to roll around in the mud, so to speak. 526 00:38:17.587 --> 00:38:21.149 I like to buy coins that are super low market cap, very high risk. 527 00:38:21.209 --> 00:38:22.530 Most likely I'm going to lose all my money. 528 00:38:23.050 --> 00:38:25.532 But when I hit it well, you hit it very well. 529 00:38:26.812 --> 00:38:32.356 I don't think that trading those types of coins on FOMO and expecting to like win is like 530 00:38:32.816 --> 00:38:37.038 the best thing because you have not only information asymmetry, but also timing asymmetry. 531 00:38:37.058 --> 00:38:43.261 Like if you see some guy with a bunch of followers by this hundred thousand dollar market cap coin, you're probably late at that point. 532 00:38:44.001 --> 00:38:56.327 Um, whereas if you're using it to discover and trade things that are somewhat established in the five, 10, $20 million meme coin range, which for most people that if you're trying to trade meme coins, that's what you should be doing. 533 00:38:56.988 --> 00:39:00.369 Uh, like it's, it's what I should be doing by enjoy what I do. 534 00:39:00.970 --> 00:39:01.130 Um, 535 00:39:02.392 --> 00:39:06.916 Then I think it's a totally different ballgame because it's not this like rush to buy. 536 00:39:06.936 --> 00:39:07.917 I have to get it right now. 537 00:39:07.937 --> 00:39:11.680 You know, if you buy it, if you don't, it'll probably go back down a bit and you can buy it later. 538 00:39:12.601 --> 00:39:18.926 And so I think that for that sort of trading, using exclusively FOMO for discoverability is like totally fine. 539 00:39:19.647 --> 00:39:27.154 And just like figuring out what are people buying, what's interesting, what has a lot of volume of people buying it, where there's a lot of new people buying and holding. 540 00:39:27.954 --> 00:39:29.776 I think FOMO is really, really good for that kind of stuff. 541 00:39:31.312 --> 00:39:34.233 Eric, what's your point of every process look like? 542 00:39:35.333 --> 00:39:35.933 I wish I was. 543 00:39:37.734 --> 00:39:39.514 Yeah, my strategy has actually changed. 544 00:39:39.534 --> 00:39:42.915 I was a little late on the meme and FOMO game in general. 545 00:39:43.375 --> 00:39:45.576 My strategy has changed since I joined. 546 00:39:45.596 --> 00:39:50.717 When I joined, I was mostly trying to catch big runners, kind of what Andy's talking about a little bit. 547 00:39:50.997 --> 00:39:52.518 I would go like... 548 00:39:52.938 --> 00:39:59.162 on the graduated tab, which is a dangerous place to be, and throw some money at something I thought... 549 00:39:59.222 --> 00:40:12.450 I'm setting up some bot tooling slowly, but generally my play is just click it, paste the address on Twitter, see what people are saying quickly about it, run a couple of safety checks on it, see who the holders are, and just throw a little money at it. 550 00:40:12.530 --> 00:40:17.813 But I feel like now with the capital being spread out so much, I've changed a lot in the last couple of weeks to... 551 00:40:18.593 --> 00:40:21.796 making larger conviction plays and higher cap coins. 552 00:40:22.296 --> 00:40:31.123 So I think like 90% of my capital probably over the last few weeks has gone into coins that are already over even like $10 million market caps. 553 00:40:31.564 --> 00:40:32.785 I kicked myself a little bit. 554 00:40:32.805 --> 00:40:36.548 Like I saw AI at like, I think I get $25 million cap. 555 00:40:36.568 --> 00:40:38.009 I'm like, ah, it's too big already. 556 00:40:38.129 --> 00:40:39.650 And here we are at $350 today. 557 00:40:39.910 --> 00:40:42.412 I finally bit the bullet and bought around like $150 or something. 558 00:40:42.472 --> 00:40:43.953 But I think... 559 00:40:44.714 --> 00:40:51.228 especially with FOMO with like the most held tab now, people are probably default going to that when they join the app, mostly. 560 00:40:51.549 --> 00:40:53.352 And they kind of see those most held coins. 561 00:40:53.392 --> 00:40:53.954 And I think it's just 562 00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:58.583 Easier to get larger plays, of course, on higher cap coins. 563 00:40:59.103 --> 00:41:00.664 I'll still take some punts here and there. 564 00:41:01.124 --> 00:41:06.068 But at this point, I'm just looking for new narratives because the narratives are so recycled, right? 565 00:41:07.088 --> 00:41:15.894 The new thing is some devs have come back from the dead from the past cycles and launched mysterious coins that people don't know what's happening. 566 00:41:15.914 --> 00:41:18.416 We saw a couple runners in the last week for that. 567 00:41:18.436 --> 00:41:19.237 Yeah. 568 00:41:19.957 --> 00:41:23.138 But yeah, I'm trying not to spread my capital too thin. 569 00:41:23.178 --> 00:41:28.601 Because a lot of stuff, 98% of the stuff seems to be bleeding out over the first couple of days. 570 00:41:29.441 --> 00:41:31.482 It's hard to catch one that kind of sticks. 571 00:41:31.742 --> 00:41:32.963 But I do agree. 572 00:41:33.023 --> 00:41:48.369 I think with AI being so easy as an artificial intelligence like Claude and not the token, I do think it's smart for everybody to just put in a prompt that says, hey, quickly set me up a meme dashboard just to plug in an address and create some flags for me 573 00:41:50.130 --> 00:41:58.594 you know, movements on chain or certain traders, because like Andy said, if you're, if you're buying, if you get that FOMO alert and it's someone with a large following, you're too late. 574 00:41:58.954 --> 00:42:04.156 I mean, like on mine, the copy traders on my FOMO now, I buy something that's absolutely insane. 575 00:42:04.276 --> 00:42:08.458 Like hundreds of people buy after me, just bots, which is actually pretty annoying. 576 00:42:08.478 --> 00:42:09.459 And they sell like 10 minutes later. 577 00:42:09.479 --> 00:42:09.739 Yeah. 578 00:42:09.779 --> 00:42:13.200 It's really annoying because they, the charts all messed up, then it's stuff. 579 00:42:13.220 --> 00:42:13.921 It's ridiculous. 580 00:42:14.181 --> 00:42:14.641 But, uh, 581 00:42:15.506 --> 00:42:15.766 Yeah. 582 00:42:16.006 --> 00:42:20.369 So, I mean, that's kind of, I really don't, I'm actually, people think I'm in like a ton of cabal chats. 583 00:42:20.409 --> 00:42:22.751 I'm in like one mean point trading chat. 584 00:42:23.712 --> 00:42:24.713 It's just like friends. 585 00:42:24.733 --> 00:42:25.853 It's a very casual chat. 586 00:42:25.873 --> 00:42:27.795 Yeah, exactly. 587 00:42:27.815 --> 00:42:31.017 Like I'm really not grinding too hard on that side of things. 588 00:42:31.277 --> 00:42:36.281 You know, I think usually what my strategy is like take a risk and actually put some size in. 589 00:42:36.501 --> 00:42:39.463 And then if things take off, you know, you do pretty well with it. 590 00:42:39.583 --> 00:42:41.985 But you guys have talked about just getting bot alerts. 591 00:42:42.266 --> 00:42:43.907 What flags are you looking for? 592 00:42:44.047 --> 00:42:46.009 Like, what are you trying to be alerted about? 593 00:42:46.069 --> 00:42:47.291 Say you like see a coin. 594 00:42:47.391 --> 00:42:51.515 What are the top three bits of information that you want first and foremost? 595 00:42:51.815 --> 00:42:52.476 It's a good question. 596 00:42:52.756 --> 00:43:00.324 I think like, so either like some semblance of originality or like something that is, that is unique about this. 597 00:43:00.984 --> 00:43:03.186 If it's been done a ton of times, it, 598 00:43:03.967 --> 00:43:05.628 it's like hard to get excited about it. 599 00:43:05.908 --> 00:43:12.110 Even if it's like, oh, this one's better because of some random reason, you know, so-and-so has launched it or whatever. 600 00:43:12.490 --> 00:43:14.351 Normally that doesn't really move the needle for me. 601 00:43:16.712 --> 00:43:17.572 And then I would say like, 602 00:43:19.662 --> 00:43:22.604 making sure that the holder distribution is at least okay. 603 00:43:22.704 --> 00:43:32.769 It's like now with tooling, it's relatively easy to figure out if you look like, you know, does someone own 85% of this coin? 604 00:43:33.370 --> 00:43:35.051 And like, that just never works out. 605 00:43:35.431 --> 00:43:37.712 It's, it's never, it's never a good strategy. 606 00:43:37.992 --> 00:43:40.814 A shallow Gini coefficient is what you're looking for. 607 00:43:40.834 --> 00:43:41.054 Yeah. 608 00:43:41.875 --> 00:43:42.555 Okay. 609 00:43:42.575 --> 00:43:43.455 Good, good spread. 610 00:43:43.475 --> 00:43:46.817 Those are really like, yeah, those are really the big things I would say. 611 00:43:47.258 --> 00:43:47.438 Um, 612 00:43:48.723 --> 00:43:58.873 And then like, I like to buy things where I can at least realistically give myself a world where this goes like 100x from where it is currently. 613 00:43:59.333 --> 00:44:03.217 That's kind of how I try to think about this stuff is it's like, sure, I could buy this coin. 614 00:44:03.738 --> 00:44:08.703 Maybe it'll go up 5x because so and so tweets about it or whatever, like dumb thing people are hoping for. 615 00:44:09.323 --> 00:44:09.624 But like, 616 00:44:10.707 --> 00:44:17.570 The risk reward of that is not that good versus like, for example, right now, I'll say, again, not financial advice. 617 00:44:17.590 --> 00:44:18.891 You probably shouldn't buy this coin. 618 00:44:19.251 --> 00:44:25.794 There's a coin that is called Elon coin that sends him the fees through X money, which is a new. 619 00:44:25.814 --> 00:44:26.934 Oh, funny. 620 00:44:27.995 --> 00:44:29.835 Like X has on your like financial services stuff. 621 00:44:29.895 --> 00:44:35.178 Someone built on top of pump fund to automatically convert it and send it to someone's X money account. 622 00:44:36.158 --> 00:44:39.142 And to me, that coin is like, likely it's worth nothing. 623 00:44:39.402 --> 00:44:41.085 And it goes to zero and he never talks about it. 624 00:44:41.385 --> 00:44:46.692 But there is some small range of outcomes where Elon tweets, someone sent me $500,000 on X money. 625 00:44:47.253 --> 00:44:47.994 Isn't that sick? 626 00:44:48.334 --> 00:44:50.717 And this coin goes up 500X in one day. 627 00:44:51.058 --> 00:44:51.839 Because it was the coin. 628 00:44:51.859 --> 00:44:53.621 I want to own some of that because there's a chance. 629 00:44:54.322 --> 00:45:02.284 And so it's like, I prefer coins that have, you know, this is an extreme example, but I can tell myself the story that it's going to go up a lot. 630 00:45:03.064 --> 00:45:09.746 And then it feels like the risk reward is better versus like, oh, this is the 17th dog coin about NVIDIA. 631 00:45:10.066 --> 00:45:11.106 Maybe this one could be good. 632 00:45:12.326 --> 00:45:14.647 Yeah, it all comes down to that attention economy, right? 633 00:45:15.207 --> 00:45:16.167 I definitely agree with that. 634 00:45:16.227 --> 00:45:17.728 And I actually think that's why... 635 00:45:18.788 --> 00:45:22.629 People aren't even really talking about this yet, but meme stocks in general, you have the potential of... 636 00:45:23.050 --> 00:45:28.231 So people are only thinking about the stock, the company coming to the meme. 637 00:45:28.351 --> 00:45:34.774 I think it could go the other way around, meaning people in the investor community for these stocks to become interested in the meme. 638 00:45:34.874 --> 00:45:35.974 And there's a lot of people... 639 00:45:36.774 --> 00:45:39.835 and a lot of liquidity and a lot of money in stock trading, right? 640 00:45:39.915 --> 00:45:44.276 And if all of a sudden they start to like the meme and kind of see behind it, they might start buying, right? 641 00:45:44.296 --> 00:45:47.776 Like it's hard for crypto to tap outside liquidity and outside buyers. 642 00:45:48.096 --> 00:45:50.877 And previously with meme coins, it was like crypto only. 643 00:45:50.997 --> 00:45:56.498 But now with these meme stocks, you could see traditional stock traders saying, oh, this one, this is kind of a cool concept. 644 00:45:56.538 --> 00:45:57.999 I've never done meme coins before. 645 00:45:58.019 --> 00:46:01.419 I'm going to buy it because it supports the stock I like. 646 00:46:01.819 --> 00:46:03.460 So I think we could see that happen. 647 00:46:03.500 --> 00:46:04.940 But going back to the question on the bot, 648 00:46:05.060 --> 00:46:06.521 Yeah, and Andy mentioned bundles. 649 00:46:06.561 --> 00:46:08.002 I think people need to be careful with that. 650 00:46:08.022 --> 00:46:12.144 So you might see a coin launch, and the top holder only has 1%. 651 00:46:12.184 --> 00:46:16.546 But what happened on launch is they sent out 1% to 50 different people, right? 652 00:46:16.586 --> 00:46:20.628 So in theory, 50% of the supply is controlled by one entity. 653 00:46:21.329 --> 00:46:22.690 Maybe they're all bunnies or whatever. 654 00:46:22.790 --> 00:46:24.891 But yeah, so I think looking for that... 655 00:46:26.295 --> 00:46:28.777 What's a healthy way for a token to get distributed? 656 00:46:29.438 --> 00:46:33.160 Because there's always this fundamental problem of tokens start concentrated. 657 00:46:33.421 --> 00:46:34.681 They diffuse over time. 658 00:46:35.222 --> 00:46:40.246 So how do you know healthy distribution versus concentrated toxic distribution? 659 00:46:40.526 --> 00:46:44.569 I mean, I think the most pure would be a dev just launches and takes no supply. 660 00:46:44.849 --> 00:46:46.971 And it's just out there and it takes off. 661 00:46:47.171 --> 00:46:52.335 And the original buyers are... You put the entire supply into the LP pool and people buy from the LP pool? 662 00:46:53.393 --> 00:46:54.073 Yeah, essentially. 663 00:46:54.113 --> 00:46:57.475 I mean, that's, yeah, these launch vets kind of offer that option, right? 664 00:46:57.495 --> 00:46:59.036 Like the dev can take a small percent. 665 00:46:59.237 --> 00:47:01.078 Of course, like they could launch and buy right away. 666 00:47:01.118 --> 00:47:05.540 Like I'm fine with a dev launching, taking zero supply and like buying a little bit early on or something like that. 667 00:47:05.580 --> 00:47:06.941 Or even just taking a small cut. 668 00:47:06.961 --> 00:47:07.722 Um... 669 00:47:08.642 --> 00:47:18.665 It gets interesting though, because like, yeah, if you want to support it, say you like really like a coin early and it's like under a million dollars and you're buying up a bunch trying to support the floor, like you could end up with like 5% of the supply accidentally. 670 00:47:18.805 --> 00:47:21.105 And like that turns people off on FOMO. 671 00:47:21.125 --> 00:47:26.707 They'll see you have got a bunch, but like really you were kind of, you're the reason that coin, you know, was doing well. 672 00:47:26.727 --> 00:47:27.927 Was elevated in the first place. 673 00:47:27.947 --> 00:47:28.707 Yeah, exactly. 674 00:47:28.827 --> 00:47:32.708 So like I've seen people then if it gets too high, they're like, oh, burn some of the supply or whatever. 675 00:47:32.808 --> 00:47:35.929 Just to, you know, I mean, people just send it off and act like they don't have it or. 676 00:47:36.749 --> 00:47:37.350 how it goes. 677 00:47:37.570 --> 00:47:40.012 But yeah, I looked for certain launch pads too. 678 00:47:40.272 --> 00:47:43.475 Like I, there's, you know, certain launch pads in my opinion do better. 679 00:47:43.675 --> 00:47:46.557 Like, and so that's one of the kind of rules I put in. 680 00:47:46.577 --> 00:47:51.481 And then like serial launchers, like if someone wants to launch like 50 coins from the same address, don't touch that. 681 00:47:51.621 --> 00:47:54.203 So that's some of the things like my, my touring looks for. 682 00:47:54.755 --> 00:47:59.440 I want to ask about how you guys make the decision to hit the sell button on your losers. 683 00:48:00.080 --> 00:48:10.310 And so most like when I'm buying anything below a 10 market cap coin or really anything I'm buying on FOMO, I kind of think that like the money that I'm buying this token with is gone. 684 00:48:10.731 --> 00:48:11.311 It's not coming back. 685 00:48:11.532 --> 00:48:17.618 There's no way unless it does what Andy was kind of talking about of like a one in 5000 chance of this doing well. 686 00:48:18.398 --> 00:48:22.340 And so like I'm putting money into the slot machine and it's disappearing. 687 00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:23.060 I'm not getting it back. 688 00:48:23.100 --> 00:48:24.041 It's not an investment. 689 00:48:24.101 --> 00:48:25.222 It's not a savings account. 690 00:48:25.322 --> 00:48:25.942 It's going away. 691 00:48:26.602 --> 00:48:30.864 And that's mostly what happens for most of the coins, statistically speaking. 692 00:48:30.904 --> 00:48:33.886 And so now I have a ton of like L's. 693 00:48:34.686 --> 00:48:39.072 on my FOMO portfolio that still have is like $50. 694 00:48:39.112 --> 00:48:40.393 I put in 500, now it's 50. 695 00:48:40.533 --> 00:48:43.157 You know, I put in 250, now it's 100. 696 00:48:43.737 --> 00:48:46.260 And they're just dust in my FOMO account. 697 00:48:46.581 --> 00:48:49.644 And I could sell just like every single one and like recoup, 698 00:48:50.205 --> 00:48:53.769 you know, pennies on the dollar of my, you know, quote unquote investments. 699 00:48:54.289 --> 00:48:58.273 But then I'm also of the mind of just like, well, you know, what if it's a runner later? 700 00:48:58.553 --> 00:49:00.175 Maybe I should just keep my dust. 701 00:49:00.735 --> 00:49:03.678 Do you guys, like, how do you guys manage, like, your L's? 702 00:49:03.798 --> 00:49:04.900 Like, do you sell your L's? 703 00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:06.281 Do you keep your L's? 704 00:49:06.401 --> 00:49:07.242 What do you do with those? 705 00:49:07.762 --> 00:49:08.262 It changes. 706 00:49:08.302 --> 00:49:09.703 It kind of depends, obviously. 707 00:49:09.743 --> 00:49:16.924 Like there's some times, like I said, when you're really rolling in the mud where you buy something and then like five minutes later, you're like, oh, this was a huge mistake. 708 00:49:17.084 --> 00:49:18.024 I should not have bought this. 709 00:49:18.064 --> 00:49:21.445 I'm going to sell it right now. 710 00:49:21.665 --> 00:49:24.466 I've tried to be better about just like cutting stuff. 711 00:49:24.926 --> 00:49:27.707 If I'm like, you know, I had an idea of what this could do. 712 00:49:27.807 --> 00:49:31.247 And the more I think about it now that I hold it, I'm like, do I really think that's going to happen? 713 00:49:31.647 --> 00:49:33.008 No, I'm just going to sell it. 714 00:49:33.688 --> 00:49:33.888 Um. 715 00:49:35.184 --> 00:49:45.514 I think it can be hard when you have a lot of followers on something like FOMO where it's like, I don't want to dump on the people who bought because I bought, which is like a tough mental thing to get over and something that I'm still trying to figure out. 716 00:49:45.554 --> 00:49:48.237 I've like, I've come around to the idea that I just don't really care. 717 00:49:48.257 --> 00:49:51.340 Everyone's a grown up and, you know, they can make their own decisions. 718 00:49:52.761 --> 00:49:53.061 But like, 719 00:49:54.218 --> 00:49:59.103 I sold over 1% of AI at like a $300,000 market cap. 720 00:50:01.926 --> 00:50:02.086 Nice. 721 00:50:02.887 --> 00:50:04.269 Thank you for your contributions. 722 00:50:04.289 --> 00:50:09.314 The battle scars that come along with, with trading and this industry. 723 00:50:09.894 --> 00:50:12.117 And so it's like, obviously there's times where you wish you didn't. 724 00:50:13.378 --> 00:50:20.728 I think I like, I had sort of overcorrected at that point in time to just like really aggressively cutting stuff that wasn't going. 725 00:50:21.429 --> 00:50:24.473 Um, and like not thinking enough about like, okay, why did I buy this in the first place? 726 00:50:25.254 --> 00:50:25.454 Um, 727 00:50:26.633 --> 00:50:27.974 But yeah, I think it really depends. 728 00:50:27.994 --> 00:50:29.614 Like in my opinion, you should sell all that stuff. 729 00:50:30.235 --> 00:50:37.438 Or like the way that I try to think about it is like anytime you're not selling a coin, you're basically making the decision to buy it. 730 00:50:38.379 --> 00:50:44.342 And so it's like, think about it and say, if I had $100 right now, would I buy this coin with $100? 731 00:50:44.942 --> 00:50:46.463 And if the answer is no, then you should sell it. 732 00:50:47.283 --> 00:50:49.524 And that's how I try to think about it now. 733 00:50:49.804 --> 00:50:51.545 Yeah, I've got some horror stories too. 734 00:50:51.605 --> 00:50:57.969 I actually think one of the most viral potential features is where you can share your fumbles. 735 00:50:58.349 --> 00:51:00.390 Yeah, early on, I was cutting a lot of dust. 736 00:51:00.531 --> 00:51:03.892 Like if I went to buy something, I would cut some losses and do that. 737 00:51:04.213 --> 00:51:09.075 I think I'm kind of done with that, especially with my shift to some higher conviction plays. 738 00:51:09.696 --> 00:51:11.036 I generally try not to sell. 739 00:51:11.096 --> 00:51:11.777 I mean, I sold... 740 00:51:12.157 --> 00:51:13.418 There's a classic one, was it... 741 00:51:14.038 --> 00:51:15.739 Flork or whatever, I sold that. 742 00:51:16.560 --> 00:51:18.741 I think it was at a $100,000 market cap. 743 00:51:18.761 --> 00:51:22.524 I just took a couple thousand dollars of dust out of that to buy something else. 744 00:51:22.844 --> 00:51:24.905 And literally the next day, I pumped a $32 million. 745 00:51:24.945 --> 00:51:28.248 I fumbled like 250 grand, just by selling what I thought was dust. 746 00:51:29.188 --> 00:51:32.091 So, I mean, I've got a few of those, kind of like Andy was mentioning. 747 00:51:32.151 --> 00:51:34.173 One man's dust is another man's moonshot, right? 748 00:51:34.213 --> 00:51:35.074 Exactly. 749 00:51:35.575 --> 00:51:35.795 Yeah. 750 00:51:36.135 --> 00:51:37.697 So I've tried to like stop cutting. 751 00:51:37.717 --> 00:51:47.886 I mean, if I get down, if I'm down like 98% in a coin and it literally is down like a couple bucks and, you know, there's no one talking about it and it's, the chart is just total death, I'll cut it. 752 00:51:48.607 --> 00:51:50.529 But yeah, I fumbled some. 753 00:51:50.549 --> 00:51:52.150 I fumbled Orbeo the other day. 754 00:51:52.191 --> 00:51:54.553 I sold it at a 4 million cap and ran up to 48. 755 00:51:54.693 --> 00:51:56.374 It just happens. 756 00:51:56.415 --> 00:51:57.195 It's part of the game. 757 00:51:57.215 --> 00:52:01.980 The worst is usually your fumble is you buy something that went to zero, so it's double whammy. 758 00:52:02.180 --> 00:52:03.181 But yeah. 759 00:52:03.681 --> 00:52:04.923 I generally tried. 760 00:52:04.963 --> 00:52:07.505 Not only did you not make $400,000, you also lost on the other side. 761 00:52:11.790 --> 00:52:13.532 So, yeah, I mean, I get it. 762 00:52:13.612 --> 00:52:15.694 I get cutting dust for sure and like losers. 763 00:52:15.754 --> 00:52:25.805 But I think if you kind of shift to that, like if you're buying stuff you really like and like think and do well, you're probably less likely to cut it even if it's down 80% because it has a chance to bounce back. 764 00:52:26.205 --> 00:52:27.586 What other FOMO tricks do you guys like? 765 00:52:28.507 --> 00:52:32.749 I've run out of my FOMO questions, but is there anything I don't know to ask that I ought to? 766 00:52:33.390 --> 00:52:39.533 I mean, people, one thing that's interesting is like figuring out how the, how like the fee take works. 767 00:52:39.773 --> 00:52:42.814 So it took me a while, just a tip I'll give people. 768 00:52:43.114 --> 00:52:49.097 I think like the best way to take the, get the creator rewards is to post thesis early on coins. 769 00:52:50.318 --> 00:52:52.279 Like I don't know what the algorithm actually is, but. 770 00:52:53.212 --> 00:53:03.635 I've seen to have better days when I've posted, I've bought, I've posted a thesis early and the coin is like 10 X. I think they're kind of paying out, you know, based on how early you are on thesis. 771 00:53:03.735 --> 00:53:05.356 So I know some people don't even post it. 772 00:53:05.416 --> 00:53:09.597 Like if you want to make some creative rewards, it's a good way to, to make some money. 773 00:53:09.817 --> 00:53:10.197 And, um, 774 00:53:10.657 --> 00:53:16.498 If you post one and it like 100 Xs and a lot of people saw that and bought because of it, they pay out a lot. 775 00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:18.359 So that's kind of one tip. 776 00:53:18.419 --> 00:53:21.820 It took me a couple days, a couple weeks to figure out. 777 00:53:22.080 --> 00:53:23.700 But something I've kind of discovered recently. 778 00:53:24.080 --> 00:53:24.620 No, definitely. 779 00:53:24.640 --> 00:53:25.941 The creator rewards are pretty cool. 780 00:53:27.801 --> 00:53:30.362 And I would say like... 781 00:53:31.471 --> 00:53:38.874 I think it's good to try to just like find people who you think are better traders than you or smarter than you. 782 00:53:39.614 --> 00:53:46.537 And like not only just like see what coins they own, but just kind of watch how they operate. 783 00:53:47.017 --> 00:53:48.058 When are they selling things? 784 00:53:48.098 --> 00:53:48.758 What are they doing? 785 00:53:48.978 --> 00:53:50.579 I do think there's a lot that you can just learn. 786 00:53:51.479 --> 00:53:53.620 um, about trading, especially if you're new. 787 00:53:53.740 --> 00:54:10.683 And honestly, like, I think probably would be a great thing to have AI help with for someone is like open it up on desktop with browser use from whatever AI you like and say, I really want you to, you know, review and analyze the trades of this trader and tell me what they're doing differently than me, what they're doing better than me. 788 00:54:11.423 --> 00:54:16.905 Uh, I think there's a goldmine of information there that people are not really taking advantage of myself included. 789 00:54:17.585 --> 00:54:17.745 Um, 790 00:54:18.465 --> 00:54:20.268 Because there are many better traders than me on FOMO. 791 00:54:21.510 --> 00:54:22.351 I'm sure about that. 792 00:54:22.371 --> 00:54:27.759 And so I think there's a lot of educational stuff that you could figure out because there's so much public information. 793 00:54:28.157 --> 00:54:35.582 Even though the meme coin economy always has felt so opaque, there is nonetheless like a ton of data there. 794 00:54:36.343 --> 00:54:37.804 And we do have AI. 795 00:54:37.964 --> 00:54:40.526 And so there is some sort of frontier to push there. 796 00:54:40.666 --> 00:54:49.872 What does internet capital markets look like when all of that data is truly made accessible by intelligence that's way better than us? 797 00:54:49.972 --> 00:54:51.133 And what can we do with that? 798 00:54:51.213 --> 00:54:54.214 Well, and there's also traders who are on FOMO who aren't really trading memes. 799 00:54:54.234 --> 00:54:57.654 You know, like one of the larger P&L accounts is this account named Change. 800 00:54:57.914 --> 00:54:58.595 I don't know who he is. 801 00:54:58.615 --> 00:55:07.957 But like he mostly just trades, you know, mid market cap normal tokens that are say in the $100 to $300 million market cap. 802 00:55:07.977 --> 00:55:09.477 Like real tokens, not meme coins. 803 00:55:09.497 --> 00:55:10.737 Yeah, like real project tokens. 804 00:55:10.757 --> 00:55:11.537 Like projects. 805 00:55:11.557 --> 00:55:16.539 You know, so he like made a ton of money on like VVV or different tokens like that. 806 00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:18.159 And like. 807 00:55:18.799 --> 00:55:27.846 he just will find a project that he likes and thinks is undervalued and like almost full port his entire FOMO account and hold it for like two or three months and then sell it all. 808 00:55:28.306 --> 00:55:29.647 And he's made a lot of money. 809 00:55:30.148 --> 00:55:36.612 And I think, you know, looking at accounts like him and seeing what he does and how he does it, you can probably learn a lot too, even outside of the meme coin world. 810 00:55:36.913 --> 00:55:37.333 Cool, guys. 811 00:55:37.633 --> 00:55:40.715 Well, hopefully we are at the beginning of a very long cycle 812 00:55:41.556 --> 00:55:49.240 Eric, your $2,500 ETH price target from five years ago still hangs over the head of the market. 813 00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:50.500 All time jinx, man. 814 00:55:50.700 --> 00:55:52.101 All time jinx. 815 00:55:52.301 --> 00:55:57.343 I don't even really have much ETH anymore, but I'll say 20K just so we can get rid of that jinx. 816 00:55:57.363 --> 00:55:59.144 20K ETH price target. 817 00:55:59.784 --> 00:56:00.565 When? 818 00:56:00.625 --> 00:56:03.206 What quarter, 2027, do you think that that happens? 819 00:56:03.266 --> 00:56:04.386 Let's go with Q3. 820 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:07.922 Q3 2027 is when you should sell it all. 821 00:56:08.683 --> 00:56:10.405 Eric, Andy, thanks for coming on the show today. 822 00:56:10.425 --> 00:56:11.025 Appreciate you guys. 823 00:56:11.886 --> 00:56:12.306 Thanks, David. 824 00:56:12.326 --> 00:56:12.847 Thanks for having me. 825 00:56:13.047 --> 00:56:17.411 Bankless Asian meme coins are the most risky thing that you could ever do in the crypto industry. 826 00:56:17.431 --> 00:56:18.813 They are plenty risky enough. 827 00:56:18.853 --> 00:56:20.134 You can lose what you put in. 828 00:56:20.154 --> 00:56:21.335 But nonetheless, this is the frontier. 829 00:56:21.756 --> 00:56:24.378 It's not for everyone, but we are glad you were with us on the Bankless journey. 830 00:56:24.438 --> 00:56:24.799 Thanks a lot.