WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.676 --> 00:00:03.276 Listener. 2 00:00:04.697 --> 00:00:08.218 This episode is a little something special from our archive. 3 00:00:08.338 --> 00:00:13.719 Alan Jones, our 1980 Formula One world champion, is about to clock up a special birthday. 4 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.500 So we're re-releasing his two-part garage episode to celebrate the milestone. 5 00:00:18.700 --> 00:00:21.681 AJ will be 80 on November 2nd. 6 00:00:21.741 --> 00:00:23.302 We originally spoke with him back in 2022 7 00:00:24.542 --> 00:00:32.249 In the lead up to the Australian Grand Prix at Albert Park that year, I travelled to Queensland to see him and this was a joy to do. 8 00:00:32.310 --> 00:00:42.980 For a time, we shared the desk and set at Channel 10 for the network's GP coverage and many of you will fondly remember him alongside the late great Darrell Eastlake at nine before that. 9 00:00:43.580 --> 00:00:48.904 Alan's always been a straight shooter, and I greatly admire that no-nonsense approach. 10 00:00:48.944 --> 00:00:54.248 You are never in any doubt about his view on something, and he earned the right to those opinions. 11 00:00:54.268 --> 00:01:00.153 So let's just keep in mind as you listen here that if our world has changed a bit and become a bit more PC, well... 12 00:01:00.593 --> 00:01:02.994 That isn't how AJ lives his life. 13 00:01:03.334 --> 00:01:06.496 Keep that era perspective around the stories, please. 14 00:01:06.876 --> 00:01:12.019 There are some great reflections here on his dad, Stan, and his racing career. 15 00:01:12.339 --> 00:01:14.660 Doing it tough in England, trying to get a break. 16 00:01:15.060 --> 00:01:16.901 Winning the world title with Williams. 17 00:01:17.301 --> 00:01:20.183 And, of course, supercars a little later in part two. 18 00:01:20.663 --> 00:01:21.743 Happy birthday, AJ. 19 00:01:21.904 --> 00:01:24.225 I owe you a lunch and much more, mate. 20 00:01:24.305 --> 00:01:28.767 However the planets align to work together for a time and to capture your story here, 21 00:01:29.207 --> 00:01:30.408 I am forever grateful. 22 00:01:30.708 --> 00:01:32.590 Enjoy the walk down memory lane. 23 00:01:35.932 --> 00:01:38.834 Well, with all due respect, Greg, I mean, I've been saying this for 10 years. 24 00:01:39.074 --> 00:01:45.519 I mean, the car needs to be less aerodynamically dependent and more reliable on mechanical grip. 25 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:47.861 And that's exactly what they've endeavoured to do. 26 00:01:47.981 --> 00:01:50.923 And it makes you be able to follow the car in front a lot closer. 27 00:01:51.904 --> 00:01:54.986 And who knows, they might even get back to an anonymously called overtaking. 28 00:01:55.586 --> 00:01:56.027 LAUGHTER 29 00:01:57.722 --> 00:02:10.951 The question that we've had from one listener, Jack Byrne, he wondered, would you have been, you know, if you could change eras and do it all again with these new cars, would you kind of commit to running new cars? 30 00:02:10.971 --> 00:02:12.011 Do they appeal to you? 31 00:02:12.031 --> 00:02:14.853 Would you make the same sacrifices to run what we're seeing in the current era? 32 00:02:16.174 --> 00:02:20.015 Well, it's a very difficult question because, I mean, you change with age. 33 00:02:20.075 --> 00:02:24.637 I mean, obviously when you're younger, you'd walk over broken glass to get into Formula One. 34 00:02:24.657 --> 00:02:27.318 And then you'd likewise to get into a competitive car. 35 00:02:27.918 --> 00:02:29.738 As you get older, you'd probably get a bit wiser. 36 00:02:29.778 --> 00:02:30.599 I don't really know. 37 00:02:30.659 --> 00:02:32.079 But that still appeals to me. 38 00:02:32.099 --> 00:02:37.641 I mean, I really wish that I was young enough and fit enough to be able to hop in one and have a go. 39 00:02:38.406 --> 00:02:42.550 You've been at the Saudi Arabia race in the last sort of six months or so. 40 00:02:42.590 --> 00:02:45.652 You're going to the Albert Park Grand Prix in Australia, which is terrific. 41 00:02:45.993 --> 00:02:48.975 How have you been and are you looking forward to your home race? 42 00:02:49.996 --> 00:02:50.917 Well, I've been pretty good. 43 00:02:51.097 --> 00:03:02.387 You know, I mean, I've had a couple of medical issues, not death-defying or anything, but I guess when you get to be my age, you're always going to have a few things like an old car, you know. 44 00:03:02.787 --> 00:03:03.428 But... 45 00:03:04.228 --> 00:03:04.749 Sorry, mate. 46 00:03:06.110 --> 00:03:17.196 But, yeah, no, I mean, as far as the Melbourne Grand Prix is concerned, I'm looking forward to seeing these new cars because obviously the last one I went to was the Saudi Grand Prix, which is five, six months ago. 47 00:03:17.737 --> 00:03:21.139 So I'm looking forward to seeing these new cars in the flesh. 48 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:26.722 As far as going to Albert Park's concerned, I'm not all that fussed about that, but I'm just looking forward to seeing the cars. 49 00:03:27.002 --> 00:03:29.063 Do you watch Drive to Survive? 50 00:03:29.083 --> 00:03:31.883 And what do you think of the modern-day Formula One personalities? 51 00:03:31.923 --> 00:03:38.605 Because you're always a straight shooter, and I love the style that you brought during your era, but it's different now. 52 00:03:38.625 --> 00:03:40.226 It's a big show, mate, in that regard, isn't it? 53 00:03:40.426 --> 00:03:41.666 Well, you've hit the nail on the head. 54 00:03:41.686 --> 00:03:42.206 It's a show. 55 00:03:42.246 --> 00:03:42.947 It's a big show. 56 00:03:42.967 --> 00:03:47.168 I have not seen one episode of it because I... 57 00:03:48.390 --> 00:03:51.672 I mean, I'll watch Formula One, I'll watch MotoGP, which is my preference now. 58 00:03:51.732 --> 00:03:53.613 I'll watch it all night, all day, every day. 59 00:03:54.774 --> 00:03:56.955 But I just don't like the theatrics of it all now. 60 00:03:56.975 --> 00:03:59.857 I mean, pretty soon they'll all be turning up with their own make-up artists. 61 00:03:59.917 --> 00:04:03.679 I'm sure Lewis does that anyway, but certainly with his jewellery advisor. 62 00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:12.965 But, yeah, I mean, I like the aspect of the cars, but I just don't like a lot of the peripheral crap that goes on with Formula One at the moment. 63 00:04:13.465 --> 00:04:15.106 I used the word sacrifice there before. 64 00:04:15.567 --> 00:04:18.068 You made a lot of that when you were younger. 65 00:04:18.108 --> 00:04:19.369 People would be quite intrigued. 66 00:04:19.389 --> 00:04:22.411 I think you literally went to England with like 50 quid in your back pocket. 67 00:04:22.452 --> 00:04:22.772 Is that right? 68 00:04:23.332 --> 00:04:23.612 I did. 69 00:04:23.792 --> 00:04:25.193 And it wasn't by choosing, obviously. 70 00:04:25.734 --> 00:04:30.117 My old man very inconveniently went broke on me. 71 00:04:30.737 --> 00:04:32.759 So I took off over there on the basis. 72 00:04:32.779 --> 00:04:35.501 And I must admit I did that because he said he would send me money. 73 00:04:36.041 --> 00:04:39.405 periodically for me to survive, which he forgot to do on several occasions. 74 00:04:40.626 --> 00:04:42.669 But no, I mean, it taught me a great lesson in life. 75 00:04:42.829 --> 00:04:48.375 You know, I got together with an old friend of mine, a boyhood friend, Brian Maguire. 76 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:52.124 We bought and sold minivans and caravans and so forth. 77 00:04:53.625 --> 00:04:55.307 You did quite well out of that, I think, you guys, too. 78 00:04:55.327 --> 00:04:58.731 For sort of in your late teens, it turned into a good little thing, didn't it? 79 00:04:59.111 --> 00:04:59.792 Oh, massive. 80 00:04:59.952 --> 00:05:02.776 Brian went on to become really big in it. 81 00:05:02.796 --> 00:05:07.181 He owned a company called Windmill Caravans and made a lot of money. 82 00:05:07.601 --> 00:05:09.743 He bought a Williams and raced it in the... 83 00:05:10.384 --> 00:05:11.484 English Formula One. 84 00:05:11.584 --> 00:05:13.985 Excuse my dog's barking in the background. 85 00:05:14.245 --> 00:05:16.186 I'll just get out and kill them in a minute. 86 00:05:16.566 --> 00:05:18.647 No, but we used to buy and sell them. 87 00:05:18.667 --> 00:05:30.330 We used to buy them on the Thursday or Wednesday, run a hose over them, drive them down to Whirls Court, park them on the curb with a for sale sign on them, and by Saturday or Sunday, 95% of them were sold. 88 00:05:30.790 --> 00:05:31.770 And we used to make good money. 89 00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:36.652 I mean, at one point, Brian and I remember one weekend we made two grand each pounds. 90 00:05:37.452 --> 00:05:38.913 And that was a long time ago. 91 00:05:38.933 --> 00:05:39.593 A lot of money. 92 00:05:39.693 --> 00:05:42.435 I mean, that would be the equivalent of making 20 grand or something. 93 00:05:42.475 --> 00:05:43.335 Now, I'm not sure. 94 00:05:43.795 --> 00:05:51.099 But because of that, I was able to sort of buy my first Formula Ford, Formula 3, and get into racing. 95 00:05:51.139 --> 00:05:55.261 But mind you, for every pound I've earned, I probably spent two on motorsport. 96 00:05:55.281 --> 00:05:57.202 But it was my passion. 97 00:05:57.242 --> 00:05:57.622 Still is. 98 00:05:58.002 --> 00:06:01.524 Your dad was a tough but fair man. 99 00:06:01.564 --> 00:06:03.765 And did he really mould you in many ways? 100 00:06:03.785 --> 00:06:05.606 Are you of the same mould as Stan? 101 00:06:06.446 --> 00:06:07.027 I don't know. 102 00:06:07.087 --> 00:06:11.890 All I know is that he used to abuse me if I did something wrong and not necessarily praise me if I did something right. 103 00:06:12.531 --> 00:06:15.173 He was a very hard taskmaster. 104 00:06:15.653 --> 00:06:17.374 He was a tough sort of an individual. 105 00:06:19.076 --> 00:06:19.976 Very hard man. 106 00:06:20.397 --> 00:06:30.705 You know, on a few occasions I'd be driving down the street in Richmond or somewhere and there'd be a blue outside a pub and the old man would deem the bloke that was winning to be too big so he'd stop the car and get into him. 107 00:06:30.945 --> 00:06:31.085 Oh! 108 00:06:32.005 --> 00:06:33.606 He was a shocker. 109 00:06:34.166 --> 00:06:40.248 But, you know, he was a very, very kind man, very generous man. 110 00:06:40.908 --> 00:06:46.250 You know, if he saw someone down on his luck, he'd stop and give him some money or whatever. 111 00:06:47.370 --> 00:06:49.511 Very, very generous. 112 00:06:49.611 --> 00:06:52.251 Bit of a funny bloke in a lot of ways. 113 00:06:52.752 --> 00:06:54.972 You snuck his car out, I think, on occasions too, didn't you? 114 00:06:54.992 --> 00:06:57.253 Did you take it to Calder and race it and things like that? 115 00:06:57.473 --> 00:06:59.495 Oh, no, that was with his permission I did that. 116 00:07:00.556 --> 00:07:15.270 But he bought a brand new Lancia Aurelia back from Europe when he did the Monte Carlo Rally with Tony Gaze and Lex Davison, and he had it parked up the driveway, and I rolled it all the way down the drive and down the street and... 117 00:07:15.951 --> 00:07:37.171 nearly crashed it and i think i was only about 12 or something i'm 11 um but no he had um the old cooper climax at home and a couple of other cars and there was a race meeting on that at calder so he allowed me to i had no idea i didn't know what the tire pressure should be didn't have any goggles so i wore sunglasses you know which was an absolute stupid like if i got a 118 00:07:37.752 --> 00:07:40.134 You know, I would have ended up by Helmut Marko if I got a stone. 119 00:07:40.154 --> 00:07:43.498 Yeah, so in that respect. 120 00:07:43.678 --> 00:07:52.227 And then he did actually finance a Morris 850, which we bought from a finance company, and it had the engine in the boot. 121 00:07:52.247 --> 00:07:57.312 So we gave it to Brian Sampson, a guy in Melbourne who was very good at tuning. 122 00:07:57.932 --> 00:08:03.614 and the old man just said, oh, look, turn it into a little race-winning car, and he had no idea what it was going to cost. 123 00:08:03.974 --> 00:08:08.775 Completely shit himself when he got the bill, because I think he thought, well, Morris 850, and what can it cost? 124 00:08:09.375 --> 00:08:10.156 Yeah. 125 00:08:10.536 --> 00:08:14.717 But, and then that was my very first race car, and I raced it at the Geelong Sprints. 126 00:08:15.477 --> 00:08:15.857 Amazing. 127 00:08:16.257 --> 00:08:22.540 In the English chapter for you or the European chapter, I mean, no internet back then, no mobile phones, things like that. 128 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:27.082 You talked about the business that you had and how that helped get things going. 129 00:08:27.102 --> 00:08:29.383 But how did you stitch some of the race deals together? 130 00:08:29.404 --> 00:08:34.466 Were you good at the hustle and learning to talk to people about the commercial side of the game? 131 00:08:34.586 --> 00:08:35.186 Well, you had to be. 132 00:08:35.426 --> 00:08:40.889 You know, I mean, I keep saying to Christian, you've got to work the paddock, you know, and he says, what do you mean? 133 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:43.491 I said, well, what I mean is you've got to work the paddock, you idiot. 134 00:08:43.511 --> 00:08:44.932 You know, like, I don't know how to. 135 00:08:45.512 --> 00:08:51.677 But, you know, I always made a point of, you know, if I went to a race meeting, going and talking to people and making sure I introduced myself. 136 00:08:51.777 --> 00:08:57.662 And there was a couple of occasions where I was, I raced a former Atlantic car at Silverstone. 137 00:08:58.542 --> 00:09:06.224 And these guys, I had a phone call from someone at March that said, this guy bought a March, a second-hand one, he wants a driver. 138 00:09:06.304 --> 00:09:09.464 And I'd been doing a lot of testing for March down at Goodwood and everything. 139 00:09:09.984 --> 00:09:12.985 They said, go down and have a talk with him, see what he thinks. 140 00:09:13.485 --> 00:09:18.646 So I got the address and I went down there and there was this Nestle truck parked outside this address. 141 00:09:19.046 --> 00:09:20.987 And I thought, oh, maybe he's a distributor or something. 142 00:09:21.007 --> 00:09:22.107 That was the transporter. 143 00:09:22.807 --> 00:09:29.677 And at that stage, I didn't have much of a choice, but it was a march with a Ryan Falconer body on it. 144 00:09:30.638 --> 00:09:34.904 And so I agreed to race it at Silverstone for an Atlantic race there. 145 00:09:35.445 --> 00:09:36.907 And we were lucky enough to win the race. 146 00:09:38.729 --> 00:09:43.232 which there's been a few things in my career which have been a little bit of a turning point, you know. 147 00:09:43.912 --> 00:09:51.077 And so I gave them a list of things to do for the next race meeting, which was at Alton Park. 148 00:09:51.777 --> 00:09:55.380 Anyway, I drove all the way up to Alton and there it was in the transport. 149 00:09:55.420 --> 00:09:58.422 It hadn't been taken out from the time I finished the race at Silverstone. 150 00:09:59.122 --> 00:10:02.304 And to the extent where some of the wishbones had a bit of rust on them and everything. 151 00:10:02.644 --> 00:10:05.446 Well, I just said, you blokes are kidding, aren't you? 152 00:10:05.466 --> 00:10:10.449 I said, look, I'll give 110%, but, you know, if you guys aren't going to prepare the car for me, just forget it. 153 00:10:11.230 --> 00:10:20.355 The point I'm making is that I refused to drive the car, but then I made bloody sure that I went around the paddock and told everybody why I wasn't driving the car. 154 00:10:20.856 --> 00:10:23.977 And that they weren't doing, they weren't giving their part and I was giving my part. 155 00:10:24.017 --> 00:10:24.278 Right. 156 00:10:25.018 --> 00:10:28.803 And that made people sit up and think, well, you know, he's obviously fair, didn't give him a bad, all of this. 157 00:10:29.604 --> 00:10:37.294 And it was only about a week later that I had a phone call from Harry Stiller that said, we've got this march. 158 00:10:37.314 --> 00:10:38.435 And I knew we had this bloody march. 159 00:10:38.455 --> 00:10:40.898 It was a brand new state-of-the-art bloody thing. 160 00:10:41.579 --> 00:10:47.363 And we're having a lot... Bev Bond, who was driving for him, is having a lot of trouble with her understeer. 161 00:10:48.123 --> 00:10:51.445 Can you come up and... Because I've been doing a lot of testing for March, as I just said to you. 162 00:10:51.826 --> 00:10:52.446 I said, yeah, sure. 163 00:10:52.466 --> 00:10:57.789 So I rang up Robin Hurd and said, Robin, can you do me a favour and meet me at Silverstone? 164 00:10:58.570 --> 00:11:00.291 And he knew Harry Stiller, obviously. 165 00:11:01.752 --> 00:11:04.714 And give me a bit of a hand to tune this thing up or get it going. 166 00:11:04.734 --> 00:11:05.374 He said, yeah, no worries. 167 00:11:05.394 --> 00:11:05.594 And... 168 00:11:06.695 --> 00:11:08.055 Robin was fantastic like that. 169 00:11:08.115 --> 00:11:12.517 So we met and I jumped in it and it didn't have that much understair, but it had a bit. 170 00:11:12.557 --> 00:11:13.917 So we just tuned that out of it. 171 00:11:14.717 --> 00:11:19.238 And I ended up by going about a second under what the qualifying time was for the last race. 172 00:11:19.958 --> 00:11:25.160 Bev Bond immediately became team manager and I became the driver. 173 00:11:26.300 --> 00:11:31.243 We try and teach kids now about, you know, resilience, perseverance. 174 00:11:31.263 --> 00:11:36.066 I mean, you talked about some of the little challenges along the way there and how you absolutely kept at it. 175 00:11:36.766 --> 00:11:43.770 Did you ever get disenchanted and think, I can't keep doing this, I can't keep going, or you just kept at it? 176 00:11:44.431 --> 00:11:44.651 Both. 177 00:11:45.860 --> 00:11:46.741 I got disenchanted. 178 00:11:46.801 --> 00:11:48.843 I got very down. 179 00:11:50.003 --> 00:11:54.146 When you're an Australian living on the other side of the world, you haven't got mum to run home to. 180 00:11:54.166 --> 00:11:55.107 They have the roast meal. 181 00:11:55.968 --> 00:11:57.689 All you've got is a grubby little flat somewhere. 182 00:11:58.630 --> 00:12:01.112 So you get pretty disenchanted quite easily. 183 00:12:01.592 --> 00:12:09.918 But I think, I don't know whether it was ego, stupidity, ignorance, I don't really know, maybe a mixture of all, but I just was never going to give up. 184 00:12:10.499 --> 00:12:14.201 And I kept, you know, I used to, even when I... 185 00:12:15.222 --> 00:12:25.044 got a vegan tuned Formula 3 engine out of George Robinson, I used to ring up George every day without fail for half an hour, 45 minutes after dinner and have a chat with him. 186 00:12:25.464 --> 00:12:27.784 Because George did me a huge favour. 187 00:12:27.824 --> 00:12:30.465 He introduced me to GRD. 188 00:12:30.985 --> 00:12:36.886 He told them that if they supplied me with the works car, chassis, he would supply me with the engine. 189 00:12:37.406 --> 00:12:40.287 And that together gave me the works GRD drive. 190 00:12:41.627 --> 00:12:46.009 which in turn was sort of responsible for me meeting Harry Stiller in a funny story. 191 00:12:46.209 --> 00:12:47.569 So that's how things turn around. 192 00:12:47.609 --> 00:12:51.670 But no, I was always very determined, never always very determined. 193 00:12:52.230 --> 00:12:56.832 To top up the bank balance during some of that early phase, you would do sometimes two things. 194 00:12:56.852 --> 00:13:02.753 You know, immediately what springs to mind is going off and doing Can-Am, for example, and there's a title win there. 195 00:13:02.894 --> 00:13:05.134 People would love to know about those cars. 196 00:13:05.154 --> 00:13:06.335 Did you enjoy driving them? 197 00:13:06.375 --> 00:13:07.175 What was that like? 198 00:13:08.241 --> 00:13:24.170 I love driving the Can-Am cars, and how that came around was that when I won the 77 Austrian Grand Prix for Shadow, Don Nicholls, who was the owner of Shadow, said, Alan, would you come over and drive the Can-Am car at Ontario, I think it was, or somewhere like that. 199 00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:32.934 I think he might have had a bit of a blue with Jackie Oliver, hadn't paid him or something, and Jackie had obviously said, well, I'm not driving unless you're paying me, so Don Nicholls said I'll get stupid in. 200 00:13:34.215 --> 00:13:36.076 So he said, I'll fly you over first class. 201 00:13:36.096 --> 00:13:37.696 You know, I'd never flown first class. 202 00:13:37.756 --> 00:13:42.578 And I remember hopping on the jumbo, and they had this great big bowl of champagne in the middle. 203 00:13:42.598 --> 00:13:45.099 And I said, how long has all this been going on? 204 00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:49.881 So I raced the car at Mossport and did reasonably well. 205 00:13:49.961 --> 00:13:52.202 I think I qualified at second or third. 206 00:13:53.642 --> 00:13:59.704 And then he said he had a newer model, single sort of single type one, for Riverside. 207 00:13:59.864 --> 00:14:01.425 And I like Riverside. 208 00:14:02.105 --> 00:14:03.306 And I said, yeah, sure. 209 00:14:03.326 --> 00:14:19.376 So I went over and did Riverside, and it was because of that that I qualified on the front row of the grid and gave the Hass car a bit of a hassle, excuse the pun, that I got to know Carl Hass quite well, and he asked me if I'd like to drive for him in the 78 thing. 210 00:14:22.038 --> 00:14:26.981 At that stage, it was 1977, and I was driving for Shadow, and there was all sorts of things going on. 211 00:14:27.361 --> 00:14:29.482 I hadn't completely done a deal for Formula One. 212 00:14:29.502 --> 00:14:31.824 I was talking to a few people, but nothing concrete. 213 00:14:31.844 --> 00:14:37.747 So I thought, right, I'll agree to a deal with Carl, because at least that gives me a drive for 78. 214 00:14:38.948 --> 00:14:44.931 And then, because if nothing comes in Formula One, I've got an income and I'm doing K&M. 215 00:14:45.532 --> 00:14:48.854 So as it turned out, I did the deal with... 216 00:14:50.475 --> 00:15:11.650 Frank Williams and he allowed me to do Can-Am which is a little bit unusual so yeah and I ended up winning the Can-Am championship and I loved racing, I like racing in America because when you've been living in England for the amount of time I was, the weather was pathetic and you'd go across to America the weather would be a lot better and you'd have hamburgers and things like that, sort of soggy old bloody things 217 00:15:13.171 --> 00:15:20.020 And then I did reasonably well in Formula One in terms of, you know, we had that little 06 up where it shouldn't have been. 218 00:15:20.661 --> 00:15:23.685 So really from that point on it was onwards and upwards. 219 00:15:33.803 --> 00:15:35.866 Alan Jones is truly one of the greats. 220 00:15:36.626 --> 00:15:41.732 There's no joke this time, just appreciating the legend and all he's done for Aussie Motorsport. 221 00:15:42.373 --> 00:15:43.094 Thanks Alan. 222 00:15:45.790 --> 00:15:50.272 You came through a great period of innovation in the sport as well in all sorts of ways. 223 00:15:50.312 --> 00:15:57.014 I think you've reflected somewhere about Patrick Head maybe even working with balsa at one point and stuff like that. 224 00:15:57.334 --> 00:16:03.217 Were there some innovations at the time where you were like, far out, I'm not sure about this, and they worked? 225 00:16:03.557 --> 00:16:06.678 Or maybe even the other way that you thought were ridiculous? 226 00:16:07.142 --> 00:16:07.922 No, not really. 227 00:16:08.102 --> 00:16:10.683 I mean, I had an unbelievable faith in Patrick. 228 00:16:10.803 --> 00:16:12.084 I mean, he was fantastic. 229 00:16:13.104 --> 00:16:15.685 You talk about balsa, that was at Rickard. 230 00:16:15.705 --> 00:16:23.008 We went down there testing, and Patrick wanted to try longer side on the wing at the back. 231 00:16:23.028 --> 00:16:24.628 He wanted to put side... 232 00:16:24.688 --> 00:16:25.109 Planes. 233 00:16:25.189 --> 00:16:30.971 Planes, yeah, right, that went much further down towards the ground, and they were made of wood. 234 00:16:31.851 --> 00:16:33.432 And I said, Patrick, what's going on here? 235 00:16:34.632 --> 00:16:40.378 And then Patrick being typical Patrick, he said, oh, you know, bloody war planes were made of wood and this. 236 00:16:40.418 --> 00:16:43.160 Anyway, by the time he'd finished, I thought they were the business. 237 00:16:43.361 --> 00:16:44.101 Yeah, exactly. 238 00:16:44.502 --> 00:16:52.149 So anyway, we tested all day and that was one of the – I always remember that day because we started at 8.30 in the morning and finished at 7 at night. 239 00:16:52.609 --> 00:16:54.751 And I think I had half an hour out of the car for lunch. 240 00:16:55.632 --> 00:16:59.095 We went back to the motel that night and I just collapsed and slept in my clothes. 241 00:16:59.615 --> 00:17:00.716 It was a huge day. 242 00:17:01.116 --> 00:17:04.358 Never done so many Ks in a car in my life without hopping out. 243 00:17:05.779 --> 00:17:11.984 But, you know, we were just determined to get the most out of the car and try whatever was necessary to get the job done. 244 00:17:12.404 --> 00:17:18.491 I'm glad you bring him up and I'd like to talk about Frank as well because, you know, sadly we lost him in November last year. 245 00:17:18.692 --> 00:17:24.018 But Patrick was always very, and I think he quite liked that quality about him. 246 00:17:24.058 --> 00:17:27.322 He was very, the driver's just like a part of a car. 247 00:17:27.342 --> 00:17:28.063 They're replaceable. 248 00:17:28.083 --> 00:17:29.985 You could be a bit like a light bulb, I think he used to say. 249 00:17:30.005 --> 00:17:31.807 We could change light bulbs if we need to, wouldn't he? 250 00:17:32.388 --> 00:17:34.711 Well, yeah, I mean, Patrick was very, very competitive. 251 00:17:34.771 --> 00:17:37.794 So was Frank, but probably not quite so verbal. 252 00:17:37.975 --> 00:17:44.802 You know, like I remember I went wide and my back left-hand wheel scraped the wall at Long Beach. 253 00:17:45.764 --> 00:17:47.045 You'd think I'd written the thing off. 254 00:17:47.866 --> 00:17:49.168 What the bloody hell are you doing? 255 00:17:49.248 --> 00:17:50.049 I said, Patrick... 256 00:17:50.529 --> 00:17:51.249 I'm trying, mate. 257 00:17:51.269 --> 00:17:53.951 Like when you try, sometimes it drifts a little bit wide, you know. 258 00:17:54.531 --> 00:17:59.874 Anyway, what used to happen then, if we had a mechanical failure, I'd go up to him and say, Patrick, what the bloody hell do you think you're doing? 259 00:18:00.234 --> 00:18:05.776 And I got to the stage, we'd say, Patrick Allen won, Patrick nil. 260 00:18:05.877 --> 00:18:08.518 And that sort of lightened it up a little bit. 261 00:18:08.898 --> 00:18:16.662 So we had a great relationship, but we both knew that we were super, super competitive and didn't take losing lightly at all. 262 00:18:17.222 --> 00:18:19.104 weren't very philosophical about it. 263 00:18:19.385 --> 00:18:25.532 He did some wonderful things for the Williams family, notably winning their first world title, mate, in 1980. 264 00:18:26.273 --> 00:18:29.036 Sadly, he left us in November last year. 265 00:18:29.297 --> 00:18:33.402 Just a couple of recollections on Sir Frank Williams, if you can. 266 00:18:34.008 --> 00:18:35.670 Oh, well, look, what do you say about Frank? 267 00:18:35.710 --> 00:18:37.172 I mean, he was just a racer. 268 00:18:37.333 --> 00:18:39.035 He was just a complete racer. 269 00:18:39.536 --> 00:18:43.761 Like, how he continued on for the time that he did, I do not know. 270 00:18:44.242 --> 00:18:45.584 An able-bodied man. 271 00:18:45.604 --> 00:18:47.486 I mean, that's why Patrick... 272 00:18:48.397 --> 00:19:12.488 gave it up that's one of the reasons i gave it up i just couldn't stand the crowds the aggravation um i mean you'd go to monaco there's all those steps and all these people around you and the politics and all the bullshit you had to go through and he was in a wheelchair i mean unbelievable but he was such a racer uh that he used to cut through all of that and uh you talk about uh i mean he used to go down to saudi arabia and 273 00:19:13.148 --> 00:19:21.956 And when he was trying to get sponsorship for the car, they would tell him to come down, say, on the Wednesday and put him in the waiting room at one of their offices. 274 00:19:22.636 --> 00:19:24.038 They wouldn't see him until the Friday. 275 00:19:24.158 --> 00:19:27.440 And they'd have the audacity to walk past him knowing that he was there. 276 00:19:27.801 --> 00:19:29.562 And he knew that they knew that they were there. 277 00:19:29.582 --> 00:19:31.664 It was some silly test they were putting him through. 278 00:19:31.684 --> 00:19:32.345 I don't really know. 279 00:19:33.145 --> 00:19:35.067 But he wouldn't go. 280 00:19:35.287 --> 00:19:37.749 He'd sit there until he saw them. 281 00:19:37.769 --> 00:19:38.829 Yeah, exactly. 282 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:42.552 He spoke two or three languages fluently. 283 00:19:42.572 --> 00:19:46.455 He spoke Italian, French, whatever it took to get the job done. 284 00:19:47.756 --> 00:19:50.438 He was just an unbelievable man. 285 00:19:50.458 --> 00:19:56.502 I mean, apart from the fact that he was in Formula One and what he did in Formula One we all know about is history now. 286 00:19:56.902 --> 00:20:00.025 But as a man, he's just someone to be looked up to. 287 00:20:00.745 --> 00:20:15.031 A great indicator of the competitive human being that you are is that when you ultimately scored your first race win for them, you were, I'm sure there's a level of pride there, but also a little bit miffed because it wasn't their first win. 288 00:20:15.051 --> 00:20:17.372 You desperately wanted to give Williams its first win, didn't you? 289 00:20:17.652 --> 00:20:18.933 Oh, absolutely. 290 00:20:19.033 --> 00:20:23.155 I mean, in 1978 we were only a one-car team. 291 00:20:24.155 --> 00:20:25.696 And that little car should have won a Grand Prix. 292 00:20:25.716 --> 00:20:29.478 I should have won Long Beach in that car, but we had mechanical, electrical problems. 293 00:20:30.179 --> 00:20:32.861 And, of course, I knew what we were going through. 294 00:20:32.881 --> 00:20:41.266 I knew the sacrifices that Frank and Patrick made and the work we were putting in and what we were going through to get that elusive win. 295 00:20:41.326 --> 00:20:43.827 I mean, we were super happy to get on the podium. 296 00:20:44.268 --> 00:20:47.310 And also, of course, when you get points, it helps financially to... 297 00:20:48.110 --> 00:20:50.995 further the development in the card, whether it be this one or the next one. 298 00:20:51.576 --> 00:20:54.521 So I desperately wanted to give Frankie's first Grand Prix victory. 299 00:20:55.021 --> 00:20:57.546 And just to rub salt into wounds, I mean... 300 00:20:58.854 --> 00:21:00.515 I was leading the race by 20 seconds. 301 00:21:00.595 --> 00:21:01.376 I had it in the bag. 302 00:21:01.396 --> 00:21:02.156 I was doing it easy. 303 00:21:02.917 --> 00:21:06.239 And that stupid bloody water thing cracked an inverter. 304 00:21:06.999 --> 00:21:11.082 And, I mean, I'm glad that Clay won and I'm glad that Williams won, but I was pissed off. 305 00:21:12.063 --> 00:21:13.744 And I did something which was probably a bit naughty. 306 00:21:14.164 --> 00:21:20.548 I just jumped in the car and went back to London and I should have stayed around and helped them celebrate, but I just couldn't do it. 307 00:21:20.568 --> 00:21:21.108 I had to get out. 308 00:21:22.549 --> 00:21:23.550 Record book says 12. 309 00:21:23.790 --> 00:21:26.332 You and I have had this conversation on the desk at Channel 10 many times. 310 00:21:26.452 --> 00:21:27.132 Should have been 13. 311 00:21:29.473 --> 00:21:36.757 Tell me a little bit about, with the benefit of time, have people come to you and say, I think it was the Spanish Grand Prix, wasn't it? 312 00:21:36.898 --> 00:21:38.519 Was that the one that you should have? 313 00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:43.922 Has someone said really, you should have been formally given that? 314 00:21:44.825 --> 00:21:45.565 Oh, absolutely. 315 00:21:45.725 --> 00:21:48.706 I mean, the people that know, I should have been. 316 00:21:48.746 --> 00:21:50.367 I mean, I went there on the Thursday. 317 00:21:50.487 --> 00:21:52.528 I did my practice on the Friday. 318 00:21:52.588 --> 00:21:54.228 I did my qualifying on the Saturday. 319 00:21:54.688 --> 00:22:05.492 Went there on the Sunday morning, did the warm-up, fronted up onto the grid, went off and did the race, did the full distance, won the race, was given the trophy by King Carlos or whatever his name was. 320 00:22:05.972 --> 00:22:07.393 And so I did the full catastrophe. 321 00:22:07.453 --> 00:22:12.194 I mean, I won the Spanish Grand Prix and blessed Jean... 322 00:22:12.374 --> 00:22:14.255 I like to call him Jean Mary, but he's... 323 00:22:14.495 --> 00:22:17.557 I think he's named Jean-Marie, but he was a bit of a lunatic. 324 00:22:17.577 --> 00:22:26.665 And I think, if nothing else, I think the Senna documentary has vindicated me a little bit with that because he looks a complete tool in that. 325 00:22:27.825 --> 00:22:29.467 The true colours of him came out. 326 00:22:29.927 --> 00:22:33.250 But anyway, he stacked on a turn because his wife didn't have a chair or something. 327 00:22:33.290 --> 00:22:38.554 I don't know, but he declared the race not in void, which really pissed me off. 328 00:22:39.014 --> 00:22:45.161 because that would have been A, more points, and B, it would have been another Grand Prix on my CV. 329 00:22:45.942 --> 00:22:56.574 But the very next meeting was the French Grand Prix, and the two Legiers were on the front row of the grid because they were all celebrating Saturday night and running around drinking champagne and carrying on. 330 00:22:58.056 --> 00:23:08.438 You know, we just did a really good start and wore them down, wore them down, wore them down, wore them down, passed Lafitte, passed Peroni, and ended up by winning the race. 331 00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:17.301 And when I pulled up, they gave me this huge Union Jack, which I went around on my slowdown lap, waving it in all their faces. 332 00:23:18.001 --> 00:23:22.962 And then when I went back to the podium, I wouldn't go up on the podium while he was still there because he was a megalomaniac anyway. 333 00:23:23.642 --> 00:23:28.225 So they asked him to please step down off the podium because it was TV, you know, for TV. 334 00:23:28.825 --> 00:23:30.366 He was well pissed off at that. 335 00:23:30.847 --> 00:23:32.848 So, you know, what goes around comes around. 336 00:23:33.108 --> 00:23:36.451 Having said that, I'd still rather have the Spanish Grand Prix on my CV. 337 00:23:36.491 --> 00:23:37.231 Most definitely. 338 00:23:37.271 --> 00:23:37.931 Most definitely. 339 00:23:38.932 --> 00:23:45.494 When you won that title in 1980, you were the first Aussie at the time since the late great Sir Jack Brabham to do it. 340 00:23:45.654 --> 00:23:47.915 You're the last Australian to win the crown. 341 00:23:48.395 --> 00:23:54.196 Give people a sense of the kind of reaction it had back here because now we're in this internet age where stories pop up immediately. 342 00:23:54.216 --> 00:23:56.077 There's something on social media immediately. 343 00:23:56.297 --> 00:23:57.197 Something like that happens. 344 00:23:57.217 --> 00:23:58.198 A bit different then. 345 00:23:58.238 --> 00:24:01.779 You've got to wait for magazines or newspapers and so on. 346 00:24:01.919 --> 00:24:06.340 Did you get a phone call from Malcolm Fraser probably was the PM back then, was he? 347 00:24:06.820 --> 00:24:07.300 Oh, I did. 348 00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:07.601 I did. 349 00:24:07.661 --> 00:24:08.121 Absolutely. 350 00:24:08.141 --> 00:24:09.042 He gave me an MBE. 351 00:24:11.043 --> 00:24:12.104 He was a real enthusiast. 352 00:24:12.224 --> 00:24:13.224 I liked Don Malcolm. 353 00:24:13.244 --> 00:24:14.785 Plus, also, he was a Simmental breeder. 354 00:24:15.246 --> 00:24:17.307 So, I was breeding Simmental cattle as well. 355 00:24:17.327 --> 00:24:24.232 But, no, I mean, I think I was just at the beginning where Aussies were starting to get it on TV. 356 00:24:24.792 --> 00:24:29.095 And I have people coming up to me now and saying, oh, you were the reason I was up late and all that sort of business. 357 00:24:29.675 --> 00:24:32.257 And in that respect, I was probably just a tad early. 358 00:24:32.758 --> 00:24:32.938 But... 359 00:24:33.578 --> 00:24:38.343 In one respect, in my own mind, I'm probably a bit glad because I don't know whether I could stand this bullshit at the moment. 360 00:24:38.363 --> 00:24:48.213 Like all this social media, you know, Fred Friendly on his mother's armchair down in her basement, you know, on his laptop, but being as brave as buggery. 361 00:24:49.374 --> 00:24:51.636 You know, I just don't know whether I could cop all that, to be honest. 362 00:24:51.676 --> 00:24:51.857 Mm-hmm. 363 00:24:52.482 --> 00:24:55.164 What about the car that year? 364 00:24:55.305 --> 00:24:58.667 I mean, you were in Saudi Arabia not all that long ago for the race. 365 00:24:58.687 --> 00:25:03.071 They had some cars doing demonstration laps, I think, with David Coulthard and maybe Damon Hill. 366 00:25:04.252 --> 00:25:06.474 They sounded amazing. 367 00:25:07.095 --> 00:25:10.458 What sort of memories does the car of that year evoke for you? 368 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:12.661 Well, my car sounded really good. 369 00:25:12.681 --> 00:25:19.923 I mean, often people come up to me, and I think it was even Jonathan Palmer or somebody said to me not so long ago, your car always sounded good. 370 00:25:19.943 --> 00:25:25.205 And I think it was because Patrick had the exhaust coming out from obviously the side of the engine, because that's where they come out of. 371 00:25:25.845 --> 00:25:30.867 But he had them wrapped around to come under the wing, and I think that gave them a pretty distinctive sound. 372 00:25:31.407 --> 00:25:40.610 And I think Patrick was one of the very first people to cotton on to the idea that the hot fumes from the exhaust underneath the wing probably helped it be a bit more efficient. 373 00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:40.770 Yeah. 374 00:25:41.410 --> 00:25:43.452 And I don't think anyone ever cottoned onto that. 375 00:25:43.672 --> 00:25:47.455 They thought we just had the exhaust there to get it out of the way of the airflow from under the car. 376 00:25:47.996 --> 00:25:49.237 But no, it always sounded good. 377 00:25:49.897 --> 00:25:57.143 You got to meet Enzo Ferrari, and there were, I think, two opportunities with them that sadly did not come to pass, weren't there? 378 00:25:57.884 --> 00:25:58.584 Well, yeah, I... 379 00:26:00.024 --> 00:26:02.807 I was very fortunate to meet Enzo Ferrari. 380 00:26:02.827 --> 00:26:05.390 I mean, I am a major enthusiast. 381 00:26:05.450 --> 00:26:06.831 I am a major car perp. 382 00:26:07.291 --> 00:26:12.136 So, you know, when you have the opportunity to meet someone like Enzo Ferrari, it's a thrill. 383 00:26:12.877 --> 00:26:17.301 And I got a phone call from Montezemolo 384 00:26:18.382 --> 00:26:21.063 after I'd won the 77 Austrian Grand Prix. 385 00:26:21.843 --> 00:26:24.664 And he said, what have you got lined up for next year? 386 00:26:24.684 --> 00:26:26.664 And I said, well, nothing at this stage. 387 00:26:27.284 --> 00:26:29.725 And that's, of course, when I decided to do K&M. 388 00:26:30.065 --> 00:26:32.325 That's why I thought, well, at least I'll tee up something. 389 00:26:33.106 --> 00:26:35.806 And he said, oh, you know, he asked me a really silly question. 390 00:26:35.866 --> 00:26:37.327 Would you like to drive for Ferrari? 391 00:26:37.667 --> 00:26:38.267 Well, hello. 392 00:26:38.287 --> 00:26:39.087 You know, like... 393 00:26:41.082 --> 00:26:43.386 Name me one Grand Prix driver that would say no to that. 394 00:26:43.827 --> 00:26:45.390 So anyway, I said, yes, of course, I'd love to. 395 00:26:45.951 --> 00:26:52.382 He said, all right, well, we'd like you to come over to Italy and meet Mr Ferrari and have a talk. 396 00:26:53.630 --> 00:26:55.350 And I said, what time would you like me to leave? 397 00:26:55.930 --> 00:27:07.573 And he said, but we must keep it very secret because we don't want people to know about it because when we sign you up, we'd like it to be like a surprise or whatever. 398 00:27:08.333 --> 00:27:16.594 He said, so if you fly into Milan, we'll have somebody from the factory pick you up and drive you down and you can meet Mr. Ferrari and we'll talk about it. 399 00:27:17.294 --> 00:27:18.575 So, but, you know, keep it secret. 400 00:27:18.795 --> 00:27:20.255 So I landed in Milan and... 401 00:27:21.015 --> 00:27:29.772 got off the plane, got into the area, and there's this bloke in a pale blue pair of overalls, a huge Ferrari written all over him, with a big sign above his head, Ellinger. 402 00:27:29.792 --> 00:27:29.852 Oh. 403 00:27:31.012 --> 00:27:34.375 So I mean, like Harry the Goose would know, well, what's going on here? 404 00:27:34.996 --> 00:27:45.105 So he whacked me in this prototype Ferrari, took me down to Modena, and there I got out and met Signor Lardi, Piero Lardi. 405 00:27:45.846 --> 00:27:49.069 He was in a Fiat 500, and I thought, well, who's this shit kicker? 406 00:27:49.169 --> 00:27:52.332 You know, and little did I know that he was Ferrari's son. 407 00:27:52.812 --> 00:27:55.134 And so he took me around. 408 00:27:56.115 --> 00:28:02.067 And I went to the villa where Ferrari used to have his office, which was right in the middle of Ferrano, the test track. 409 00:28:02.957 --> 00:28:11.521 So I sat in the waiting room and big, very theatric, you know, big double doors opened up and I went in there and here he is behind the desk, as white as a sheet. 410 00:28:12.241 --> 00:28:14.062 And I thought, geez, he's not a well man. 411 00:28:15.022 --> 00:28:18.684 Anyway, he asked me all these questions and Montezemolo hit the nail on the head. 412 00:28:18.704 --> 00:28:22.045 He said, he will ask you why do you want to drive for Ferrari, blah, blah. 413 00:28:22.105 --> 00:28:23.486 And that's exactly what he did. 414 00:28:23.506 --> 00:28:25.687 And Montezemolo said, this is what you'll say. 415 00:28:25.707 --> 00:28:26.907 You'd workshop the answers. 416 00:28:27.087 --> 00:28:27.968 Yeah, pretty much. 417 00:28:29.429 --> 00:28:30.910 would you be prepared to live in Italy? 418 00:28:30.950 --> 00:28:33.392 And I said, I'd live in the North Pole. 419 00:28:34.653 --> 00:28:38.256 You know, what do you think you can do with Ferrari? 420 00:28:38.276 --> 00:28:39.737 I was doing a bit of crawling. 421 00:28:40.938 --> 00:28:44.101 With your car, sir, I think I could become world champion. 422 00:28:44.401 --> 00:28:46.123 This is all the bullshit they want to hear. 423 00:28:46.923 --> 00:28:49.365 So I ended up by actually signing a contract. 424 00:28:49.866 --> 00:28:52.608 And he said, I'll level with you. 425 00:28:52.628 --> 00:28:54.590 He didn't say at this stage I'd kicked out by this stage. 426 00:28:54.650 --> 00:28:55.290 I saw him do it. 427 00:28:55.330 --> 00:28:56.651 I was back with Lardy. 428 00:28:58.091 --> 00:29:01.332 We are trying to get a North American driver for our sales. 429 00:29:01.913 --> 00:29:03.393 We are talking to Mr Andretti. 430 00:29:04.053 --> 00:29:07.595 If Mr Andretti doesn't sign with us, we'd like you to sign. 431 00:29:08.075 --> 00:29:10.536 But I'd already signed, so we will activate your contract. 432 00:29:10.576 --> 00:29:11.956 I said, okay, that's great. 433 00:29:12.737 --> 00:29:18.959 So I used to go down to one of the train stations in London because, for whatever reason, Autosport used to come out early. 434 00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:23.664 And I picked it up and Andretti re-signs or signs for Lotus. 435 00:29:23.684 --> 00:29:25.826 And I went, oh, yeah, I'm a Ferrari driver. 436 00:29:26.126 --> 00:29:28.989 It didn't air anything for a couple of weeks and I thought, this is very strange. 437 00:29:29.550 --> 00:29:34.836 So I eventually phoned them up and they said, well, you know how we told you we wanted a North American driver? 438 00:29:34.856 --> 00:29:35.416 I said, yeah. 439 00:29:36.097 --> 00:29:37.498 Well, we have signed Mr Villeneuve. 440 00:29:37.518 --> 00:29:37.699 Mm-hmm. 441 00:29:38.259 --> 00:29:39.661 I went, oh, okay. 442 00:29:39.781 --> 00:29:41.964 I didn't even know he was in the scale of things. 443 00:29:42.745 --> 00:29:43.545 So that's what happened. 444 00:29:43.746 --> 00:29:48.411 And they signed Villeneuve and I immediately got on the phone to Frank and said, I've been giving a lot of thought to this. 445 00:29:48.531 --> 00:29:49.653 I'd love to drive for you. 446 00:29:50.494 --> 00:29:55.099 At that stage, wanting to drive for Frank Williams versus Ferrari were two very different things. 447 00:29:56.067 --> 00:30:01.632 So anyway, as it turned out, it was the best thing that ever happened to me because they gave me a great car. 448 00:30:01.992 --> 00:30:09.018 And then every time, as I've said this a hundred times, every time I used to qualify the Ferraris, I'd drive down pit lane and give them a little bit of a wave. 449 00:30:09.739 --> 00:30:12.081 And it might have only been with one finger, but it was a wave. 450 00:30:12.541 --> 00:30:15.283 And, you know, so that was very enjoyable. 451 00:30:15.624 --> 00:30:16.504 But I think that... 452 00:30:17.285 --> 00:30:28.632 Yes, everyone would like to drive a Ferrari, but I'm really happy I ended up going with Frank because we grew together, we created a legacy, and it's something I'll never regret. 453 00:30:28.652 --> 00:30:30.573 That was an amazing decision. 454 00:30:31.834 --> 00:30:36.557 Didier Peroni, I think, was the other opportunity with them, I think, was it not, with Ferrari? 455 00:30:37.252 --> 00:30:38.132 Was it... 456 00:30:38.412 --> 00:30:39.273 I'm trying to remember the... 457 00:30:39.293 --> 00:30:39.793 I don't know. 458 00:30:39.853 --> 00:30:42.233 All I know was I didn't think there was any other people. 459 00:30:42.253 --> 00:30:46.735 I naively just thought it was me because they foolishly said that to me. 460 00:30:46.875 --> 00:30:55.557 No, I meant back when you were in Australia, when you'd stopped in that brief period after 81 in the sport, and they were trying to contact you on the farm, weren't they? 461 00:30:55.577 --> 00:30:59.758 They were trying to ring you to see if you would join the famous red team then, I think, as well. 462 00:30:59.778 --> 00:31:01.359 I was up here on the Gold Coast. 463 00:31:01.499 --> 00:31:04.320 And it's amazing what goes around and comes around, isn't it? 464 00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:08.722 at the end of the day, if we can't get Mr. Andretti, we would like you. 465 00:31:08.982 --> 00:31:14.525 And then when Peroni had his shunt, they phoned me up and said, we would like you to come back and drive the car for the rest of the year. 466 00:31:15.626 --> 00:31:16.226 Are you interested? 467 00:31:16.246 --> 00:31:20.249 And I said, yes, which, of course, at that point I really wasn't, but I thought I'll fuck them around because... 468 00:31:21.089 --> 00:31:27.892 You know, because I'm a Scorpio and I cut my nose off to spite my face and that's exactly what I did. 469 00:31:27.912 --> 00:31:29.233 And in the end, guess who they got? 470 00:31:29.413 --> 00:31:30.093 Mr. Andretti. 471 00:31:30.854 --> 00:31:37.357 And then the bugger went and put it on pole at Monza and I thought, oh, no, Jones's Law is at work again, you know. 472 00:31:38.717 --> 00:31:41.659 The thing for me, I'm not a massive believer in regret, right? 473 00:31:41.679 --> 00:31:43.760 You made the best decision that you have at the time. 474 00:31:44.320 --> 00:31:51.604 When you look back on it now, that period that you spent away from the sport before you came back in the early 80s there, would you change that? 475 00:31:51.664 --> 00:31:53.125 Would you do that differently? 476 00:31:53.405 --> 00:31:57.728 I mean, you went off on the farm and, you know, escaped it for a time. 477 00:31:57.848 --> 00:32:00.249 How do you compartmentalise that now? 478 00:32:00.716 --> 00:32:02.517 Well, you do what you do at the time you do it. 479 00:32:02.637 --> 00:32:12.162 You know, I mean, and there's probably on reflection, yes, I probably did knock it on the head a bit early because I soon realised I wasn't a bloody farmer, that's for sure. 480 00:32:12.963 --> 00:32:16.845 And so, and that's why I was on the farm and I broke my hip. 481 00:32:16.905 --> 00:32:22.007 I got bloody bucked off a horse and I was in hospital and Jackie Oliver rung me up and said... 482 00:32:23.177 --> 00:32:28.559 we've got this multi-trillionaire that's putting money into the team, we want you to come back and be number one. 483 00:32:29.659 --> 00:32:35.061 And I thought, because I'm a little prostitute, and I said, well, how much? 484 00:32:35.401 --> 00:32:40.563 And he gave me some figure and I went, okay, well, when do you want me on the plane? 485 00:32:40.943 --> 00:32:42.124 So I... 486 00:32:42.864 --> 00:32:47.147 I'd still had a bloody pin in my hips because I'd broke my femur. 487 00:32:47.788 --> 00:32:48.388 So I went over. 488 00:32:48.408 --> 00:32:55.833 The race was at Long Beach, so we went to this little track just east of L.A. 489 00:32:56.274 --> 00:32:57.354 I can't think of the name right now. 490 00:32:57.955 --> 00:33:03.378 But I drove the car, and it felt all right, you know, no dramas, and I don't even know where I finished in that race. 491 00:33:03.459 --> 00:33:06.160 It really wasn't up in the top ten anyway, I don't think. 492 00:33:06.801 --> 00:33:10.543 And then the next race was at Brands Hatch, Race of Champions, and I got second or third. 493 00:33:11.484 --> 00:33:15.126 And then he said, right, well, the next race is Paul Ricker. 494 00:33:16.086 --> 00:33:18.807 And I said, yeah, that's OK, fair enough. 495 00:33:18.847 --> 00:33:20.448 But where's this Trinian here bloke? 496 00:33:20.548 --> 00:33:21.889 What's happening with the Dojaki? 497 00:33:23.954 --> 00:33:27.018 And just to show you what a complete idiot I am, I knocked him back. 498 00:33:27.058 --> 00:33:29.040 I said, no, I'm not going anywhere unless I see some dough. 499 00:33:30.501 --> 00:33:36.768 And then Ron Dennis rung me up and said, oh, Nicky has got the flu. 500 00:33:36.788 --> 00:33:38.169 He doesn't know whether he'll be able to drive. 501 00:33:39.771 --> 00:33:43.735 If you come down to Monaco, we'll give you X amount of dollars if you drive. 502 00:33:44.476 --> 00:33:46.617 And if you don't drive, we'll give you Y amount of dollars. 503 00:33:46.657 --> 00:33:48.579 So it's a paid trip to Monaco. 504 00:33:49.019 --> 00:33:54.202 You'll get a few bob in your pocket anyway, blah, blah, blah. 505 00:33:54.342 --> 00:34:02.147 I phoned up my then wife, and then I decided because of that, no, I'm going home. 506 00:34:03.228 --> 00:34:04.489 So you could have driven from McLaren? 507 00:34:04.529 --> 00:34:05.509 Yeah, at Monaco. 508 00:34:06.650 --> 00:34:09.452 And had I not, I still would have got a few bob. 509 00:34:10.112 --> 00:34:13.074 So just another good Jones decision along the way. 510 00:34:13.514 --> 00:34:22.440 One thing I think that does, though, illustrate is something that you've more or less lived by right along the way, particularly in a contractual sense. 511 00:34:22.740 --> 00:34:31.485 I think you've often said to me it's about being paid what you agreed on, being paid on time and no more, no less kind of thing. 512 00:34:31.765 --> 00:34:33.466 You've had that sort of ethos, haven't you? 513 00:34:33.486 --> 00:34:33.847 Well, that's... 514 00:34:34.707 --> 00:34:35.527 You ask my wife. 515 00:34:35.547 --> 00:34:37.168 I mean, that's one of my favorite sayings. 516 00:34:37.248 --> 00:34:37.909 I don't want any more. 517 00:34:38.309 --> 00:34:39.049 I don't want any less. 518 00:34:39.269 --> 00:34:40.430 I just want what the deal is. 519 00:34:40.970 --> 00:34:41.871 I'll honor my deal. 520 00:34:42.131 --> 00:34:43.552 All I'm asking is you honor your deal. 521 00:34:44.132 --> 00:34:47.314 If you're late, you'll have me on your doorstep. 522 00:34:47.574 --> 00:34:50.876 You know, if I do anything, you feel free to have a go at me. 523 00:34:51.156 --> 00:34:54.718 And I think that's a fairly simple sort of an ethos to live by. 524 00:34:54.778 --> 00:34:57.099 I think that's all I ask. 525 00:34:59.892 --> 00:35:02.833 That's the end of part one of our re-release episode with Alan Jones. 526 00:35:02.893 --> 00:35:04.114 We are not done yet. 527 00:35:04.174 --> 00:35:07.015 Jump back to the library and fire up part two whenever you're ready. 528 00:35:07.055 --> 00:35:14.498 There is an incredible kind of mysterious breakfast meat story with Bernie Eccleston, which led to his sudden withdrawal from a race. 529 00:35:14.958 --> 00:35:19.740 Getting the pilot to fire up the plane for a departure with the race barely underway. 530 00:35:20.100 --> 00:35:22.061 And some supercars reflections too. 531 00:35:22.101 --> 00:35:27.363 It's all part of a little 80th birthday celebration for our 1980 F1 world champion.