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And I read it and went, oh my goodness.

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I think this would change my career massively.

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The first thing I would have seen you in would of course be Fresh Meat.

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Where you played Howard, this great character.

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Classic.

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There was a friendship there very early on that we all got on with each other.

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We all supported each other.

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And we just really fucking liked each other.

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I mean, it was chaos.

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It was absolute chaos.

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I'm not joking.

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I mean, we were quite naughty sometimes.

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Get in and get your face.

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I'd written a sitcom called Gary Tank Commander.

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Nothing prepares you when you turn up and there's all these people there to make your thing.

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There's Greg, and then there's Gary.

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So you're gonna do this for yourselves, you're gonna do it for me, you're gonna do it for the country, but most importantly, you're gonna do it for Gary.

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I am not a drama queen.

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I am the opposite of a drama queen.

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I am a reality queen.

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We have a small favour to ask all of you.

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Please, could you check right now if you've clicked the subscribe button.

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It's one simple, free thing that you could do to help us keep this show free and to keep improving it week after week.

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So please, double check if you've subscribed.

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Thank you so much.

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Going back to Abigail's Party, what you're saying about that, because you were saying something interesting about how, like with Tamsin Alphawait's performance, it doesn't sound like she overplays it.

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But like Beverly, because we had Mike Leon, who did Abigail's Party a while, ages ago.

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And we didn't touch on Abigail's Party, but like having seen it and studied it, like I think it's a play that it's really easy to go over the top.

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But it sounds great that it doesn't.

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There is a real danger that if you over-egg that situation, it just becomes irritating.

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So the balance is keeping the characters real, keeping the interactions believable and sharp and funny.

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And Mike Lee writes with such a rhythm that the rhythm they got last night was so impressive as well.

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How they punctuated the jokes both physically and with the voice.

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and between them, so the dynamic was just beautiful.

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I mean, there was huge laughs just from pauses.

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And that's where, you know, people aren't rushing, they've got control, and they know the audience are there, and they can trust in their own abilities, and that was lovely.

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Like, some of those biggest laughs were just the awkward,

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Oh it was great, it was really great It's all in the timing isn't it But timing is listening And I think people forget that sometimes Timing is good acting Is having a relationship With someone opposite you And last night I thought that was They just nailed it, absolutely nailed it Because they all knew who they were Effectively, but then the writing's great So the writing informs that But then you still need performers that are willing to Get into the detail of it I think

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Is that something that as an actor and comedian you've always had a finger on the pulse of?

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Like the ability to listen and how so much of acting is reacting?

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I'd like to think so.

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I mean, there's always a debate in comedy about instinct and whether people are funny or not.

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You know, there's this ongoing debate about funny bones or they're a funny person.

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Yeah.

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And I don't know, I'm not sure about that because I think there's a lot of technique to really good comedy acting.

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But I think, yeah, you do have to have a...

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a sense of silliness and a sense of what a joke is.

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And I was lucky in that I did stand up, I did improv, I've done a whole history of things, mainly out of just wanting to create work or needing to create work.

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You know, I came out of drama school and couldn't get an agent, couldn't get anything.

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And people had said to me, oh, you're funny.

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A friend at uni said, oh, you should try stand up.

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And I was like, no way, I couldn't do that.

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And then she encouraged me to do it.

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And then by that avenue I started to get obsessed about what a joke was and how a joke works and how you write a joke.

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And I'm not talking about knock knock, I'm talking about what in a story makes something funny, what do you need in those parts?

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And then when I did improv, when I moved to London years later with people, you start to know about you have to listen and improv.

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Otherwise, you're not going to get anywhere or do anything.

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If you're only thinking about what you're going to do, the thing dies very, very quickly.

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So I suppose what I'm saying is I went through an avenue of different things.

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And I think that helped me develop as an actor.

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And I don't see myself as a comedian per se, but I've certainly done a lot of comedy.

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I remember you saying once that because because before you started pursuing acting acting you uh you studied business yeah I want to say and I remember you saying once actually studying business in an interesting way kind of informed your whole approach to show business hugely massively and I didn't realize at the time this is the thing that you of course it's only years on that you kind of link up these little bits in your head but yeah studying business because I started studying sport and that was actually too difficult as Sterling because I wanted to be an

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But the business side of it was about being concise as well, business reports, thinking about what's the through line of this, so that kind of, but in the least number of words.

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And in many ways, comedy is that, poetry is that, good writing is that.

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What are the fewest amount of words?

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You're not trying to, you know, you go and see something and it's loose and all over the place, it's not very good to watch.

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In an odd way, this zigzag in my career of doing a business degree.

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you know it didn't inform everything but it was certainly an important part of yes thinking about the industry as a business and myself as a business but also how do you write a pitch how do you write a pitch document how do you write you know an explanation or an outline a scene outline you know all those kind of things like that so it's funny how what you think is not related to something ends up being quite a crucial part of my journey I suppose

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And now, of course, everyone writes their pitch documents with AI in Chachi BT.

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They do.

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You don't need to do a business degree.

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That's the whole point.

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You don't need to do anything.

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Everything is AI.

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AI can do anything, supposedly.

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Yeah, good luck to people that do that.

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And I don't think there's a huge harm in doing that for an outline or a project to help you kind of be more concise.

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But yeah, these two young women behind me on the bus yesterday were talking about, and they must have been in their 20s, I think.

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talking about how they hated AI and they were saying that the global IQ is about to drop and it was just quite interesting like these two young women talking about how they were dead against it and I thought oh that kind of gives me some hope you know I'm not dead against it for medical purposes but I'm quite against it for

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creative purposes and of course you know I feel a slight victim in AI in terms of you know voice over work is going away and that's becoming a real thing where AI voices are being used and of course for actors AI images and there's a big movement at the moment to make sure we're not being scanned on set you know there was a big movement about that and equity's doing its best so yeah no stick to stick to original business strategies

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's a double-edged sword, isn't it?

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It is, it is.

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When it's used as a tool and it can be used to further the creative process, it seems to me the best.

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No, exactly.

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You can't be dead against every element of it.

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But it's certainly an interesting time because it's changing so quickly all the time as you think, well, where we don't have control of it is, I'm sure, exciting to some people and a threat to others, I suppose.

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Well, going into some of the work that you've done, the first thing I would have seen you in would, of course, be Fresh Meat, where you played Howard, this great character.

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Oh, amazing.

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Yeah, who just, you know, is such a singular presence in that show.

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We did a show full of singular presences.

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I mean, we were touching on some of them earlier, like Kimberly's Josie, who we had on the pod.

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And I have a sort of fascination with that show and how it all came together, because when you watch Fresh Meat, there is such a specific...

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gold in this sort of alchemy of all of you, the main characters and the way that you were cast and the way that you were brought together and the show sort of took form.

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And I did want to ask, there's a kickoff on that.

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Like, how do you remember the Fresh Meat job coming about?

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I remember it very, very clearly indeed, because the context of my career at that point was I'd written a sitcom called Gary Tank Commander about a camp soldier.

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And it was in response, it was a satire about Iraq and Afghanistan and these soldiers who were all mates, kind of Gary's this big, screamingly camp soldier in the army talking about how much he loved the heat and the sunshine in Afghanistan and how lucky he was to get posted there because it was so hot and amazing.

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And I'd done Two series of that show And it had really kind of I'd done some kind of Shorts of it as well And some sketches And it had really taken off The character just Kind of in Scotland Not in England And even at that stage After series two I thought

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Oh man, how am I going to get out of this?

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Is this going to be my career?

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I'm going to end up in Scotland the rest of my career.

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And then this script came through and auditioned for Fresh Meat.

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And I read it and went, oh my goodness, that is astounding.

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I'll always remember reading what they sent through and going,

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this is brilliant but not only is it brilliant I think this would change my career massively because I've shown the big comedy side of me and now I see this guy as powerful in the house and then crumbles the minute he leaves the house that was my take on Howard so when I went to audition and David Kerr was a director and Rhonda Smith producing

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the...

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I was very nervous but I knew exactly what I wanted to do with the character, right?

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Because the writing was so good.

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I mean actors love to tell you, oh and I created this character called Howard.

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No you didn't.

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You didn't create the character, Howard.

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Howard was on the page and it is slight changes between actors but roughly talking the writer has created or should have created a really rich character and they did and Sam and Jesse and all the other writers were phenomenal.

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And after that audition, I then had to audition, I think another three or four times.

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And as the years went on, I heard whispers that, some kind of joking, but I think this was very true, is that they just didn't see some of the people involved.

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And I'm never quite sure who it was.

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but they didn't see Howard like that.

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So what someone in the camp did, and then someone else in the camp did, but there was other voices that didn't see Howard like I saw him.

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So I had to keep auditioning and keep auditioning for it and trying to prove.

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And then eventually it went my way, thankfully, because it was career changing.

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And I was in an alleyway in Glasgow.

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My phone had gone off and it was very busy.

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And I went up this alleyway and my agent said, you've got Howard.

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And I went, no, no.

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Like I couldn't.

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My mind was blown.

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But she said, yeah, but you're going to have to move to Manchester next week.

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And my now wife, but my girlfriend at the time, I had to tell her that, oh my goodness, this is happening.

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But I'm going to be away for the next three months.

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So I remember it so clearly.

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I'll never forget that call.

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Because A, I wanted it so badly, but B, it was the polar opposite of what I'd been doing.

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So you can imagine the excitement, the prospect.

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And then I met the meters.

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We did a read through and I just thought, oh, this is really special.

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I'll never forget the read through either because I knew Jack a little bit from London.

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I knew Joe a little bit from Sketch.

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But after we did the read through and Charlotte hadn't even been cast yet.

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Do you know this?

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I don't think I knew Charlotte.

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I think Charlotte was at uni, wasn't she?

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Right?

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She was, yeah.

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She was youngest, but at the read through they were a little bit cruel to her.

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She didn't have the actual full offer for the part yet.

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So she did the read through and then they went and had a meeting.

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And thankfully, I mean, I couldn't imagine anyone else playing organ.

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And then all of us just clicked like so much on that read.

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It was really special.

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Something you said there about how with Howard when you were auditioning, like some certain parties in the company weren't sure if, oh, is Howard this or is he that?

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Kim said something similar on when she came on the show, which was that because she originally auditioned for Oregon.

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Yeah.

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And then I think in the last audition, Sam Bain said, look, I know you've been auditioning for Oregon, but would you mind auditioning for Josie?

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Yeah, yeah.

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And she'd never done her Welsh accent on screen really before.

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And she was talking about that, how she played her Welsh, but originally the conception was that she wasn't Welsh.

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She was kind of this middle class English girl.

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So it's interesting to hear that the characters, there were different ideas of the characters.

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as early as that and then before they took form when you guys really stepped into the shoes?

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Yeah, I suppose in the room with the people and obviously they tape it and they send it to other people is hopefully as an actor you get to go in and show your side of it.

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So I don't think they had Howard as a Scot in it and of course it leads to the best reveal of all time that his mum and dad lived around the corner in Manchester.

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Yeah.

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Which I remember laughing at uncontrollably once I read that script.

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But yeah, no, it is interesting.

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Yeah, like Josie being Welsh and me being Scottish and Jack being, Jack slightly posher and Joe being kind of middle class as well as...

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Charlie, yeah, that dynamics seemed to work.

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And then, you know, as an actor, it's never explained to you that the conversations are had.

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You know, you don't ever, no one ever sits you down and says, look, let me just let you into how this was all decided.

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We still don't know.

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We just know that we got the part.

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But of course, when audiences like that, you start to think about, oh yeah, oh, that's great.

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That's quite fun.

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But I still don't know officially how it all, who wanted what.

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but hey it did it came together and like I said there's real alchemy like I was saying when I said to Kim I said like it's hard to imagine any of you any of those characters being played by anyone else well that's very nice well it is it's impossible for us I suppose as well but um but we got on so well and there is an alchemy there was a friendship there very early on that we all got on with each other we all supported each other and we just really kind of liked each other and I think

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It's kind of obvious to say, but in a workplace where you all get on very well, it just makes for a better environment.

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So obviously we've got these astounding scripts, Sam and Jesse and all the writers, every single writer, it was team written.

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And that's very important to remember.

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And in the UK it's quite rare, even to this day, that things are team written because the money's just not there.

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So Fresh Meat was actually commissioned via the drama budget at Channel 4.

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So if it had been done as a sitcom budget, they wouldn't have been able to afford that many writers.

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And it would have been a very different show, I think, and not as successful, which is a good learning curve that we still haven't learned properly in this country about put the money in, you'll get the results.

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But yeah, so I think on set, the alchemy was built out of a friendship and a love for each other

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and the great scripts so but of course you don't have anything without great scripts you can be the best pals in the world you can get on beautifully we've got a script you don't have a show so so writing writing writing and then our friendship alchemy and abilities hopefully was was what helped well it sounds like such an authentic friendship that you guys shared i mean when uh when kim came on again like

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She was saying how it did feel like, almost like an authentic university experience, like an actual house share, like the fact that you guys were kind of living on top of each other while making that show.

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Is that what it was actually like?

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Yeah, it was.

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It was very much, I think again, if we'd shot it in London where you shoot during the day and then everyone goes home at night, I don't think it would have been quite the same

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show or experience, but we were in Manchester, living in Manchester in these apartments, next door to each other.

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I mean, it was chaos.

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It was absolute chaos.

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I'm not joking.

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I mean, we were quite naughty sometimes.

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I mean, you know, I'm older now, I couldn't do it anyway, but we would go out.

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I'm sure Kim must have mentioned that we would shoot all day together

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It's a long day.

196
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You know, it's 10 hours.

197
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We're all, most of us in most of the seasons, you know, most days of the week.

198
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And then we'd all say, all right, where are we going for dinner tonight?

199
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I mean, that's not usual.

200
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You'd want a break from people.

201
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You'd go, all right, no, I've just been with you all day.

202
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We didn't.

203
00:16:08.365 --> 00:16:18.932
We would shoot all day and then go for dinner at night and then not always go out, but we had a lot of nights out, like quite big nights out and managed to get through the shooting.

204
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I think we drove them a little bit crazy on the production in that respect sometimes, but then we got on with stuff as well.

205
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I think we were professional enough to keep it together.

206
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Do you remember any of the antics you guys would get up to?

207
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Is there anything you can share about those times?

208
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Not massively.

209
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I mean, we would just go to dinner and laugh our socks off and have some wine.

210
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And then on the weekends, we would occasionally go a bit nuts and be out very, very late.

211
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But no, just fun.

212
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Just good fun.

213
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I remember Kim told the story about how, because there's a whole little subplot in at least one of the episodes of Fresh Meat where they hire a barge.

214
00:17:00.965 --> 00:17:03.347
And Kim said you guys actually did hire a barge.

215
00:17:03.367 --> 00:17:03.928
Yeah, we did.

216
00:17:03.968 --> 00:17:04.308
We did.

217
00:17:04.368 --> 00:17:05.149
Little Venice.

218
00:17:05.169 --> 00:17:10.413
We hired a barge and then met up and had an afternoon together.

219
00:17:11.376 --> 00:17:17.159
And it is, like we're not the characters, I'm not Howard, and Jack is not JP either for the record.

220
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And you know, we're all our own people, we're all very kind of, yeah, we are, we're all very different I think from our characters in many ways.

221
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But yeah, we did, we met up and retreated the barge and just had a laugh.

222
00:17:29.365 --> 00:17:30.145
I mean, you can imagine like,

223
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that chemistry on screen is genuine because when we're off screen and we're all meeting up we're just howling with laughter and taking the piss out of each other and um yeah we're just a lovely unit it's just it's tough tough air as you get older we don't see each other as much but i'm sure we would see each other a lot more if we could you know who do you think of the uh out of interest who do you think of the various actors is uh least like their character

224
00:17:58.755 --> 00:17:59.655
Well, I'd hope it was me.

225
00:18:02.377 --> 00:18:06.178
Because I don't, Howard's a very, very odd man.

226
00:18:07.539 --> 00:18:09.780
But there must be, you know, there's odd sides to me.

227
00:18:09.820 --> 00:18:10.820
Of course there are, there must be.

228
00:18:12.161 --> 00:18:16.903
Zowie's not like Vod at all.

229
00:18:17.803 --> 00:18:23.966
Zowie's just a remarkable, she's just a brilliant human, incredible actor as well.

230
00:18:24.206 --> 00:18:27.648
Like I've talked about this in the past as well, but I learned so much from Zowie.

231
00:18:28.689 --> 00:18:29.351
on the set.

232
00:18:29.912 --> 00:18:32.038
She'd done a huge amount of theatre,

233
00:18:33.036 --> 00:18:51.328
And lots of TV before I'd worked with her And I had just done TV I hadn't really done I'd done theatre at drama school But I'd not done any professional stuff And I was obsessed by Zawi's approach to scenes Where she would come in And she'd be like Right, right, right Well, yeah, do the lines Yeah, that's easy I can move there But what am I doing here?

234
00:18:51.368 --> 00:18:53.729
What's my business?

235
00:18:53.889 --> 00:18:54.750
Can I get a cigarette?

236
00:18:55.090 --> 00:18:57.872
Can you find me to the props team?

237
00:18:58.552 --> 00:19:00.454
Very politely But like, can you find me something?

238
00:19:00.614 --> 00:19:01.474
Right, can I do that?

239
00:19:01.494 --> 00:19:02.335
Can we get that there?

240
00:19:02.995 --> 00:19:10.742
So if you watch Fresh Meat, she'll often be doing something and she'll punctuate jokes with like rolling a cigarette or when she's doing it.

241
00:19:10.762 --> 00:19:17.468
And then for most actors it's like don't give me anything because continuity wise this will be a nightmare, I'll have to match this, I'll ruin every take.

242
00:19:17.769 --> 00:19:20.491
And Zali was always wanting a thing.

243
00:19:20.611 --> 00:19:26.977
So when you watch her performances there's always a brilliant movement, there'll always be a little extra thing that she does that just is vaude.

244
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And I tried to do that with Howard, but I was never as confident.

245
00:19:31.639 --> 00:19:34.520
I watched her and went, oh my goodness, you are brilliant.

246
00:19:34.620 --> 00:19:40.402
I mean, everyone in it is brilliant, but Zao really kind of was like, oh yeah, I should be thinking more on set.

247
00:19:40.422 --> 00:19:43.823
What else can I add to this to get it a bit more heightened?

248
00:19:44.283 --> 00:19:44.904
Yeah.

249
00:19:44.924 --> 00:19:49.128
Do you have a moment where, or a memory of where you took that approach and used it for Howard?

250
00:19:49.148 --> 00:19:56.656
Because Howard, I want to say, he has, of all the characters in some ways, he is the one that has the most close relationship to the house, in many ways, the environment.

251
00:19:56.676 --> 00:19:58.217
You know, he is kind of, he's part of it.

252
00:19:58.618 --> 00:19:58.998
He is.

253
00:19:59.539 --> 00:20:04.964
The house is part of him and he is the kind of leader in a very strange way of the house.

254
00:20:06.065 --> 00:20:08.726
that I was very keen to get across, that yeah, that's his fortress.

255
00:20:08.766 --> 00:20:14.108
And then when he leaves the fortress, he's, the outside world is kryptonite to Howard.

256
00:20:14.148 --> 00:20:17.709
You know, he just, he crumbles, he's weakened by everything outside.

257
00:20:17.729 --> 00:20:23.891
Yeah, I mean, I tried as Howard to kind of just make it interesting or textured.

258
00:20:23.951 --> 00:20:29.733
I remember, oh my, this is a scene me and Zowie couldn't get through actually.

259
00:20:29.753 --> 00:20:33.354
It was, I think it got cut in the end because I couldn't stop laughing.

260
00:20:33.414 --> 00:20:35.075
I had to eat a jar of peanut butter.

261
00:20:35.955 --> 00:20:58.186
while chatting to Zell and I couldn't speak and do it and she was howling we used to me and her used to corpse um really badly together we loved our scenes of Vaude and Howard um so I remember that kind of business just went totally wrong for me but giving someone peanut butter to eat out of a jar if I was trying to deliver lines that's just cruelty um quite frankly

262
00:21:00.393 --> 00:21:01.634
It gets quite sickly after a while.

263
00:21:01.654 --> 00:21:02.375
Oh, it does, yeah.

264
00:21:02.475 --> 00:21:06.519
And you're doing a lot of takes, especially if you're ruining takes, you're doing extra takes as well.

265
00:21:06.699 --> 00:21:08.480
So I remember that.

266
00:21:08.520 --> 00:21:10.262
I think we had to stop that scene, actually.

267
00:21:11.303 --> 00:21:11.903
That's naughty.

268
00:21:14.145 --> 00:21:14.806
It's claggy.

269
00:21:14.846 --> 00:21:15.286
It's claggy.

270
00:21:15.346 --> 00:21:15.726
Yeah.

271
00:21:16.647 --> 00:21:17.848
It's gross, you know.

272
00:21:19.628 --> 00:21:36.956
And then with Howard then, going, sort of zoning in on him, do you have a favourite sort of Howard moment or a favourite Howard line that when you go back to freshman, when you look at it, you go, oh, this is, that you sort of latch onto, like, oh, that's my favourite, that's one of my proudest moments?

273
00:21:38.817 --> 00:21:40.718
There's loads of moments with Howard.

274
00:21:42.129 --> 00:21:57.164
There's almost too many to mention I think one of my favourite speeches though Is in the The Brian episode With his nemesis And I have this Chat about Um

275
00:21:59.101 --> 00:22:19.456
I storm into the bar And I think I've just had a fight I might be wrong about this But I think I've just had a fight with Brian And someone accuses Howard of being a drama queen And I I am not a drama queen I am the opposite of a drama queen I'm a reality queen So there's so many bits And actually I'm

276
00:22:20.377 --> 00:22:24.038
There was a sweet relationship thing with Josie and Howard.

277
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I always like really fondly, me and Kim have talked about this, is Howard's upset about something one day in the house and she says, would you like some apple crumble?

278
00:22:31.779 --> 00:22:43.162
And there's these little tiny things where you, it's not always, I think that's what's so clever about the writing and the characters is there's these little drops of friendship in it that stick in my mind as well.

279
00:22:46.183 --> 00:23:12.963
And then of course the buffet scene with Zowie I remember shooting that That was at 8 o'clock on a Sunday morning In Manchester when the restaurant was obviously shut So we could film on it And having to eat lots of Chinese food And that was just a riot to shoot But it was quite a technical shoot Just the set up of food and angles And the way it was cut When you look at it There's lots and lots of different shots So I've got so many fond memories of

280
00:23:14.957 --> 00:23:41.352
know i just don't have any kind of negative vibes from that you know often you do three series four series of a show and some of it you'd be a bit like oh yeah and i didn't like that but no with that there's howard was just such a joy to play yeah yeah i i totally agree about the the implicit little details of like you say howard and josey or i think howard and jp is another really good example of that yeah unlikely friendships absolutely yeah yeah and i think that's the reality isn't it

281
00:23:42.923 --> 00:23:44.568
And hopefully the audience has enjoyed that.

282
00:23:44.629 --> 00:23:49.885
As the show goes on, you know, JP goes in with this ridiculously...

283
00:23:51.680 --> 00:24:16.210
arrogant attitude nutsford and slagging off Howard and series one repeatedly and then we're just hating him really and then over time again the cleverness of the writing and the cleverness I suppose is adapting to the actors that are in it as well and seeing their strengths or seeing where they sit with the other characters the dynamic and that's another skill of the writing is that you know the writers would all have meetings going right before we're doing in series two well I like that bit of

284
00:24:17.331 --> 00:24:34.663
in series one or whatever between Jack and Greg or the characters obviously Howard and JP is that I think the writers really tuned in to where the dynamics worked better in the show and yeah as you say hopefully you get a real spread of

285
00:24:35.704 --> 00:24:58.627
ridiculousness but these little punctuated marks of oh yeah they really are buddies and they're always nice to play those scenes you know big funny slapsticky or or confrontational scenes are great but there's something in your day where you get a nice little sweet scene and it makes you feel good it's true it's really true absolutely yeah do you have a favorite memory of working with jack on that on that subject

286
00:25:01.418 --> 00:25:08.460
Jack is such a good actor and he doesn't need me to say, well, hasn't he done well in his career, right?

287
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.940
Because it's evidently he has, but I don't think he gets enough credit as an actor.

288
00:25:13.621 --> 00:25:17.661
And I think he's gone to the States, knocked out of the park.

289
00:25:18.261 --> 00:25:25.983
He tours around the UK as a stand-up, but he's a shit-hot actor because he's incredibly professional and incredibly detailed.

290
00:25:26.663 --> 00:25:26.843
right?

291
00:25:27.603 --> 00:25:29.344
And people go, oh, what's Jack like?

292
00:25:29.564 --> 00:25:31.225
Is he just a big posho?

293
00:25:31.405 --> 00:25:35.406
No, he's incredibly funny like face to face.

294
00:25:35.826 --> 00:25:37.487
He's self-effacing as well.

295
00:25:39.048 --> 00:25:43.109
But my memories of me and Jack doing scenes as J.P. and Howard is like just detail.

296
00:25:43.169 --> 00:25:46.750
We would be like, right, how do we get that funnier and funnier and funnier?

297
00:25:47.611 --> 00:25:50.492
So I just loved working with Jack as well.

298
00:25:50.992 --> 00:25:52.112
But in terms

299
00:25:56.192 --> 00:26:00.515
Oh God, I mean, I don't know if I could tell you a specific one.

300
00:26:00.535 --> 00:26:09.380
I don't know if you've got any that stand out, but I think just him having a go at Howard for being so weird in his bedroom repeatedly just kind of makes me laugh.

301
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:11.862
But it's funny because I don't go back and watch it.

302
00:26:12.663 --> 00:26:15.624
So it might seem like, well, I don't remember specifics.

303
00:26:15.664 --> 00:26:19.567
It's because I don't really go back and watch a lot of what I've done.

304
00:26:19.987 --> 00:26:24.650
So I suppose my overall picture isn't as specific as maybe an audience that watches it, if that makes sense.

305
00:26:24.850 --> 00:26:25.110
Absolutely.

306
00:26:25.411 --> 00:26:25.911
Absolutely.

307
00:26:26.632 --> 00:26:30.155
So it's not really a show, so you don't really go back and look at your work by and large?

308
00:26:30.175 --> 00:26:30.235
No.

309
00:26:30.255 --> 00:26:31.996
It's not really a thing that you do?

310
00:26:32.036 --> 00:26:37.421
No, I think maybe I should look at some stuff more, but you end up just going, oh, what did I miss there?

311
00:26:37.461 --> 00:26:41.024
Or I look terrible in that, or, oh, that could have been better.

312
00:26:41.064 --> 00:26:43.206
You know, it's very much having your own work.

313
00:26:44.347 --> 00:26:45.588
You don't look at yourself and,

314
00:26:47.488 --> 00:26:51.390
or I don't and go oh isn't that great I think it's probably a terrible habit that.

315
00:26:51.550 --> 00:27:10.678
I remember speaking to another actor about it and they were like Greg you've got to get over that because it's not about you either liking or disliking it's realising what you're doing and you can learn from that but I wouldn't say I go and rush to watch stuff that I've done I just hopefully enjoy the work and feel I've done my best but I don't re-watch stuff.

316
00:27:11.178 --> 00:27:12.759
I mean, quite odd, I think, if you did.

317
00:27:13.939 --> 00:27:15.020
I don't know about other actors.

318
00:27:15.540 --> 00:27:17.121
Did Kim say, did she rewatch it?

319
00:27:17.401 --> 00:27:20.222
I don't know if Kim said she watches herself.

320
00:27:20.282 --> 00:27:23.564
It's funny, we had another actress on recently called Carla Crome, who's an actress and writer.

321
00:27:23.584 --> 00:27:26.125
She did Misfits, and she just did that new show possession.

322
00:27:26.185 --> 00:27:28.706
She's somebody who does like to watch back what she does.

323
00:27:28.766 --> 00:27:31.047
She described it as like baking a cake and then not eating it.

324
00:27:31.467 --> 00:27:36.633
because she likes to watch, you know, just, I guess, to see the work that she's done.

325
00:27:36.653 --> 00:27:40.997
But I think it's quite common for people to see it, as you say, not to look... Yeah.

326
00:27:41.338 --> 00:27:46.143
I mean, being in mind Fresh Meat was what, I don't know how many years ago, was it 12 years ago or something like that?

327
00:27:46.163 --> 00:27:47.504
So it's been quite a while.

328
00:27:47.665 --> 00:27:49.547
I mean, I did watch a bit of an episode...

329
00:27:52.407 --> 00:28:04.030
the other week and in fact I messaged Tony Gardner who plays Shales the next day, I messaged him saying, Tony that performance is just brilliant, I'd forgotten how good Tony is in it.

330
00:28:04.730 --> 00:28:13.253
A very very good actor, very funny and actually a nightmare to be opposite because he's so funny, he's so dry in that and kind of despicable.

331
00:28:14.033 --> 00:28:22.000
But brilliant, he just plays on the right side of, you know, obviously it's got an abusive, effectively, relationship between Shales and Oregon.

332
00:28:22.821 --> 00:28:24.683
But he just keeps on the right side of it.

333
00:28:25.063 --> 00:28:28.967
Which is, he's a really, I mean, everyone they brought in was just top class actors, really.

334
00:28:30.028 --> 00:28:32.730
So no, I did watch a bit of that episode the other week.

335
00:28:33.391 --> 00:28:35.993
So it was nice to see, you know, someone else being great in it.

336
00:28:36.778 --> 00:28:40.500
There is something about how a character can be utterly appalling, like Shales.

337
00:28:40.520 --> 00:28:43.322
You know, he can do appalling stuff and be quite despicable.

338
00:28:43.402 --> 00:28:49.945
But if he can make you laugh, that goes such a long way to sort of making him palatable.

339
00:28:50.685 --> 00:28:51.105
It does.

340
00:28:51.326 --> 00:28:53.407
And we're talking it's fine margins.

341
00:28:53.507 --> 00:28:59.790
You know, a bit like Abigail's party last night where the actors are just on the right side of it.

342
00:29:00.510 --> 00:29:02.051
And there's a real discipline to that.

343
00:29:02.071 --> 00:29:05.073
But then, of course, we need to attribute the directors on the show.

344
00:29:05.093 --> 00:29:06.554
We had great directors on Fresh Meat.

345
00:29:07.214 --> 00:29:10.136
And they are the overlords of performance.

346
00:29:10.356 --> 00:29:15.900
You know, they are the ones that will be choosing it in the edit and which, you know, which of the takes is the strongest.

347
00:29:15.940 --> 00:29:24.465
And, you know, for David Kerr, who set the show, I think he set the tone incredibly well.

348
00:29:24.586 --> 00:29:26.747
I mean, I was going to tell you a story there that

349
00:29:28.459 --> 00:29:29.859
Yeah, I can say this actually.

350
00:29:29.899 --> 00:29:39.502
A director came in to the show, who I will not say who it was, and I don't think this is on public record, but I will say this because there's no harm in it.

351
00:29:40.483 --> 00:29:45.164
And the director came in and wanted to change the tone of the show entirely.

352
00:29:46.104 --> 00:29:47.345
And we were all very confused by this.

353
00:29:48.325 --> 00:29:55.767
And this director wanted us to play it more straight, like a drama drama, but the scripts are comedy.

354
00:29:56.447 --> 00:29:57.968
And that director lasted two days.

355
00:30:00.595 --> 00:30:07.680
And to be fair to the production, they came in and, I don't know the behind the scenes conversations, whether it was an ultimatum or whatever, but that director was gone.

356
00:30:09.141 --> 00:30:17.267
And because the production and Channel 4 knew the tone that we had to keep and what was working, so he wasn't the first director.

357
00:30:18.668 --> 00:30:21.850
So David Kerr had set the tone of the show, and that's really important.

358
00:30:21.950 --> 00:30:25.692
It's like, if you get that wrong, you're not going to get another series.

359
00:30:26.733 --> 00:30:39.741
So the minutiae and the great performances, and sorry, just going back to what you're saying about Shales' character, is you have to keep an eye on how horrible, because by nature of what they're doing is quite murky.

360
00:30:40.461 --> 00:31:09.056
area so tribute to all the directors bar the one that didn't work out for keeping the tone right and keeping us on track you get more used to as the show goes on your decision making becomes more fluent because you understand the character better but you need directors that have got the choice of going that's the take no more we're good moving on and that's a great skill so it's not again scripts acting but you need directors and of course you need all the amazing crew that we had who were

361
00:31:09.656 --> 00:31:27.220
all fantastic yeah yeah it says a lot doesn't it they're like you know you can be smart you could be talented you can be you know all of those things but if but taste is so important isn't it when it comes to comedy or just creativity yeah taste is taste is everything you know there's there's no escaping um

362
00:31:29.149 --> 00:31:33.553
the realities that not everyone has the same sense of humour, right?

363
00:31:33.753 --> 00:31:36.095
Of course they don't, comedy is so subjective.

364
00:31:37.176 --> 00:31:39.758
But there are some awful things that keep getting recommissioned.

365
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:52.309
And I find it interesting, the definition of taste, because me saying, oh, there's some awful comedies out there that keeps commission, that's just my opinion and someone else would say, oh, no, I don't agree with you.

366
00:31:53.610 --> 00:31:55.752
But if we're talking about taste as a thing,

367
00:31:57.580 --> 00:32:02.344
I think the really good comedies stand out in a different way to popular, mega popular comedies.

368
00:32:03.665 --> 00:32:07.788
But, of course I'm going to say that I'm a wanky actor, I'm not.

369
00:32:07.929 --> 00:32:20.199
I'm going to argue that point, but I think taste is, in the great comedies, people tend to agree on that, and would agree on other good comedies in that field.

370
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.682
But, I'm being a bit cryptic there, but I think people roughly know what I'm talking about.

371
00:32:25.683 --> 00:32:30.647
Well, for you, what are the great comedies when it comes to exactly that, like what we're talking about with taste?

372
00:32:30.667 --> 00:32:33.249
What do you think are examples of the great comedies that have that taste?

373
00:32:33.669 --> 00:32:40.474
Well, I mean, obviously as a kid, you grow and you evolve.

374
00:32:40.494 --> 00:32:42.816
But I mean, I've always loved Dad's Army.

375
00:32:43.716 --> 00:32:44.217
Just loved it.

376
00:32:44.237 --> 00:32:46.078
You know, if we're talking on the broader spectrum...

377
00:32:47.479 --> 00:32:50.802
Dad's Army is one of the funniest things ever written.

378
00:32:50.842 --> 00:32:52.783
And then I loved Alo Alo growing up.

379
00:32:53.024 --> 00:32:54.385
And a lot of people were like, what were you talking about?

380
00:32:55.225 --> 00:33:01.651
But there's something about the technical nature of Alo Alo and the slapstick and the physicality and the ridiculousness of it.

381
00:33:02.151 --> 00:33:08.194
I'm not saying they're the best sitcoms of all time, but they're things that I think are inherently funny to me.

382
00:33:09.115 --> 00:33:13.357
Partridge, Coogan, I mean you can not, Spaced.

383
00:33:13.997 --> 00:33:16.358
Fawlty Towers I found difficult to watch as a kid.

384
00:33:16.378 --> 00:33:21.841
I found it very stressful and then I grew up and re-watched Fawlty Towers going, oh my goodness, oh my goodness.

385
00:33:23.902 --> 00:33:28.207
And then you've, yeah, I mean, there's so many good ones.

386
00:33:28.447 --> 00:33:31.431
And then Motherland as well, brilliant show.

387
00:33:32.332 --> 00:33:33.693
Amanda Land.

388
00:33:36.696 --> 00:33:37.998
There's so many, so many.

389
00:33:38.677 --> 00:34:02.140
And those are what you say Are some of your favourite Of the more recent comedies Like yeah Amanda Land And Love The Land Yeah Yeah I think I think those things Are just proper Laugh out loud funny It's kind of tricky To get kind of Real Yeah real laugh out loud stuff But yeah I'd say they're One of my favourites Of the recent past And do you have any others That like you're Sort of going back to a lot That have come out Quite recently Sparking your interest Would you say

390
00:34:03.745 --> 00:34:10.549
Do you know at the moment, sometimes comedy is kind of tougher for me to watch because it just feels like work.

391
00:34:11.589 --> 00:34:14.971
Whereas I watch a lot of films and a lot of documentaries and stuff like that.

392
00:34:14.991 --> 00:34:23.516
There's sometimes I'll almost actively avoid a comedy because I just don't really want to examine it, you know, if I'm at home or if I've been filming or whatever.

393
00:34:24.636 --> 00:34:33.041
And I'm not someone who sits and watches a huge amount of sitcoms, I suppose, because I've just done so much comedy, it kind of, it feels more like work.

394
00:34:33.822 --> 00:34:36.624
Well, that of interest, what kind of films and documentaries have you been watching?

395
00:34:37.604 --> 00:34:39.906
Well, I am incredibly repetitive about films.

396
00:34:39.926 --> 00:34:50.592
I've got about six or seven films I just kind of watch on repeat, from Silence of the Lambs, Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator, Goodfellas, Casino, Jaws, and Munich.

397
00:34:50.772 --> 00:34:53.194
I'm a bit obsessed by Munich as a film, which...

398
00:34:53.774 --> 00:35:05.785
I don't know how you feel about that, but not to get too heavy into the world affairs, but I look at the film Munich and it's as relevant now as it was when it was made.

399
00:35:05.805 --> 00:35:08.887
You know, it's just about the futility of revenge.

400
00:35:09.027 --> 00:35:11.470
And I think, I don't know, my wife thinks I'm absolutely insane.

401
00:35:11.490 --> 00:35:13.251
She's like, can you not watch anything lighthearted?

402
00:35:13.271 --> 00:35:13.471
LAUGHTER

403
00:35:14.372 --> 00:35:15.332
as your go-to movies.

404
00:35:15.372 --> 00:35:21.014
All my movies are all quite heavy, Goodfellas, Casino, Saving Private Ryan and Munich.

405
00:35:21.034 --> 00:35:23.855
I don't know what that says about me, but I think maybe again it's just opposite.

406
00:35:24.076 --> 00:35:29.397
I've done so much comedies that I find an odd relief in horror, or the horrors of the films.

407
00:35:29.417 --> 00:35:30.998
I'm not into horror genre massively.

408
00:35:32.398 --> 00:35:34.659
And Jaws is the most light-hearted one of the bunch.

409
00:35:35.219 --> 00:35:36.300
Yeah, that big E.T.

410
00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:41.662
Shark is just a bit of a giggle, isn't it, compared to the realities of Palestine and Israel in Munich.

411
00:35:42.622 --> 00:35:47.944
But yeah, I mean, but the likes of these films, I read, well, I didn't read it.

412
00:35:47.984 --> 00:35:50.185
I saw Kim talking about Princess Bride.

413
00:35:50.965 --> 00:35:52.726
And that was a huge inspiration for me growing up.

414
00:35:52.746 --> 00:35:59.328
In fact, that's the first film I remember watching once and then rewinding it and watching it again on a video.

415
00:35:59.348 --> 00:36:04.470
I was at afternoon of whatever, just do you want to rent a video back in the day?

416
00:36:04.850 --> 00:36:07.151
And I watched that twice back to back.

417
00:36:07.191 --> 00:36:12.093
And that must have had something to do with my want of getting into comedy, I suppose.

418
00:36:12.971 --> 00:36:17.713
Have you ever done that as an adult, where ever re-watched something immediately after watching it?

419
00:36:18.293 --> 00:36:19.514
No, I don't think I have.

420
00:36:19.534 --> 00:36:20.334
That's a really good question.

421
00:36:21.834 --> 00:36:28.097
I think The Princess Bride is the only thing I can remember watching, you know, in a four-hour, or however long it is, an hour for it, back-to-back again.

422
00:36:29.517 --> 00:36:37.319
I mean the last film I wanted to do that was The Holdovers, is it?

423
00:36:37.439 --> 00:36:37.879
Holdovers?

424
00:36:37.999 --> 00:36:43.101
Yeah The Holdovers, Alexander Payne I think that's the last film I watched and I finished it and went oh I could just watch that again.

425
00:36:43.341 --> 00:36:50.783
I absolutely loved that film, really really loved it but yeah that's the one that stands out recently.

426
00:36:51.603 --> 00:36:55.366
And again, that's a lighter one, although it's tragedy, tragedy comedy, but beautiful, isn't it?

427
00:36:55.527 --> 00:36:57.769
Beautiful, absolutely beautiful, but hilarious as well.

428
00:36:57.789 --> 00:36:59.030
Hilarious, absolutely hilarious.

429
00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:02.593
I told you, Matt, it's just incredible, effortless.

430
00:37:03.754 --> 00:37:13.182
You know, that's the thing, isn't it, with acting, when you see someone who's, you're not quite aware of what he's doing that's so great, but he's just so great.

431
00:37:13.302 --> 00:37:14.563
You know, he's one of those actors, isn't he?

432
00:37:14.583 --> 00:37:15.844
You're just like, why, why?

433
00:37:17.305 --> 00:37:20.647
Why, how, or how actually, how are you doing that?

434
00:37:21.288 --> 00:37:27.592
It's like I did a film with Toby Jones years ago called Marvelous, which is a really beautiful film.

435
00:37:27.932 --> 00:37:29.013
And I was a small part in it.

436
00:37:29.874 --> 00:37:31.235
But it was a very, very special film, actually.

437
00:37:31.255 --> 00:37:34.797
In fact, the auditioning part of that stands out in my career.

438
00:37:35.838 --> 00:37:40.241
I read this script by a writer called Peter Bowker, who wrote The A Word.

439
00:37:40.281 --> 00:37:41.862
I ended up working with Peter on that.

440
00:37:42.742 --> 00:37:48.545
And when I read the script I was at a kitchen table in Camden and I started crying, right?

441
00:37:49.705 --> 00:38:02.090
Very unlike me in terms of work because you're reading a script and you're analysing how I'm going to play this part or want to play the part for the audition And my wife said, what are you reading?

442
00:38:03.171 --> 00:38:05.272
And I'm like, I just never read a more beautiful script.

443
00:38:05.332 --> 00:38:07.634
I'm like, this is so moving and stunning.

444
00:38:08.555 --> 00:38:12.378
But I wasn't reading for the nice part, and I was reading for a part I knew I wasn't going to get.

445
00:38:12.398 --> 00:38:14.180
I wasn't right for it, and I couldn't access it.

446
00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:17.122
But I read the script a huge amount of times, maybe five or six, seven times.

447
00:38:18.683 --> 00:38:20.765
And I went into the audition.

448
00:38:20.965 --> 00:38:24.208
The director was a chap called Julian Farino, amazing director.

449
00:38:24.768 --> 00:38:27.771
He did a lot of these seven-up documentaries, you know, in their seven photos to him.

450
00:38:28.331 --> 00:38:30.973
So he came from a documentary background, very empathetic guy, lovely dude.

451
00:38:31.914 --> 00:38:37.896
And we did the audition and I knew, I just knew, and he knew I wasn't right for the part.

452
00:38:38.656 --> 00:38:42.677
And I was just really pleased to have met him and read this beautiful script anyway.

453
00:38:42.717 --> 00:38:43.458
I was really pleased.

454
00:38:43.478 --> 00:38:45.658
I left a bit like, well, well, that's not going to work out.

455
00:38:46.358 --> 00:38:48.299
And my agent phoned me as I was leaving the building.

456
00:38:48.319 --> 00:38:48.999
She said, where are you?

457
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:49.639
I said, well, you know what?

458
00:38:49.659 --> 00:38:51.140
I've just done that audition.

459
00:38:51.160 --> 00:38:52.260
I don't think I'm right for that part.

460
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.101
She went, yeah, but they want to see you.

461
00:38:54.121 --> 00:38:56.001
Would you go back in for a different part?

462
00:38:56.642 --> 00:38:58.322
And I said, what, not for Malcolm?

463
00:38:58.562 --> 00:39:00.243
She went, yeah, for Malcolm.

464
00:39:00.303 --> 00:39:00.743
I was like...

465
00:39:01.683 --> 00:39:01.863
What?

466
00:39:02.223 --> 00:39:06.045
And she said, yeah, but Julian's saying, would you be okay cold reading it?

467
00:39:06.065 --> 00:39:06.405
It's cold.

468
00:39:06.425 --> 00:39:08.686
You know, you're not going to have time to look through it.

469
00:39:08.706 --> 00:39:10.207
It was literally within 20 minutes.

470
00:39:10.227 --> 00:39:12.007
And I said, oh my God, I've read the script about six times.

471
00:39:12.228 --> 00:39:13.568
I know that part inside out.

472
00:39:14.629 --> 00:39:16.069
So I went and that's the part I got.

473
00:39:16.789 --> 00:39:21.171
And that is, and the film is stunning, but just in terms of actors who are effortless, you don't know.

474
00:39:21.531 --> 00:39:26.934
I used to go to set to watch Toby because I just wanted to see how he would go through a scene.

475
00:39:27.494 --> 00:39:29.275
I find him so inspiring as an actor.

476
00:39:30.035 --> 00:39:34.556
So he's another one of these actors I would put in that league of... Yeah.

477
00:39:35.356 --> 00:39:42.078
Because in the film, Marvelous, he's playing a guy, it's based on a true story, who you would probably say has additional needs.

478
00:39:42.178 --> 00:39:49.800
Or the chap in question, Nello, Neil Baldwin, doesn't want to be defined by that for his life.

479
00:39:49.820 --> 00:39:51.340
He just decides he wants to be happy.

480
00:39:51.380 --> 00:39:53.061
It's kind of a key theme in the film.

481
00:39:53.881 --> 00:39:59.142
And I remember seeing Toby and he's just on his own in this room.

482
00:40:01.224 --> 00:40:13.439
And it's very difficult to explain, but the energy he had standing in this quite an emotional scene, I was like, why am I moved by you standing on your own in a room?

483
00:40:14.460 --> 00:40:20.588
And I always remember that, going, there's something about some actors that is kind of otherworldly.

484
00:40:21.907 --> 00:40:31.496
And that's always stood in my head as him on his own and me going, why am I so involved in this scene where you standing?

485
00:40:32.277 --> 00:40:32.997
Yeah.

486
00:40:33.818 --> 00:40:35.019
How do you mean otherworldly?

487
00:40:35.680 --> 00:40:36.541
In what kind of sense?

488
00:40:38.112 --> 00:40:43.354
I mean, there's people that can hold a space, hold a room.

489
00:40:44.735 --> 00:40:52.458
I went to see a play a couple of weeks ago in Edinburgh for the opening of the International Festival, Wagner Moura.

490
00:40:52.558 --> 00:40:54.819
Do you know the Brazilian actor?

491
00:40:55.439 --> 00:41:01.362
He plays Pablo Escobar in Narcos and I saw him on stage and he was another one.

492
00:41:02.162 --> 00:41:23.356
Where there is something It's very difficult to explain About how someone holds themselves And I don't think it can be taught actually There's something about presence And otherworldly I don't know It's just someone who walks on And you're like Captivated There are certain people Certain actors And I don't think they can explain it There's just something in there There's something in there

493
00:41:23.636 --> 00:41:49.047
presence they've got a kind of magnetism yeah yeah yeah it's interesting how it is how like toby jones definitely i agree as someone who has that i mean i've always been a big fan of yeah and he's got such because he is such an interesting almost slightly skew-iff presence in some of the movies he does yeah but you can't take your eyes off you can't and that's he studied clowning he told me and i don't know if there's something about the clowning presence of how you know a

494
00:41:51.028 --> 00:41:53.650
It's not always about big movements with clowning.

495
00:41:53.730 --> 00:42:03.255
It can just sometimes be how a clown arrives onto that space, onto that spot, and the silence of the audience is on them.

496
00:42:03.976 --> 00:42:07.258
Some of it's technical, but some of it is really held within the person, I think.

497
00:42:08.028 --> 00:42:10.789
Well, I mean, in some ways, linking that back to Howard.

498
00:42:11.009 --> 00:42:12.170
Yes.

499
00:42:12.250 --> 00:42:13.671
Howard's otherworldly.

500
00:42:13.871 --> 00:42:14.791
He is pretty otherworldly.

501
00:42:14.851 --> 00:42:17.452
I mean, it's fair to say.

502
00:42:17.532 --> 00:42:27.817
I heard from Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain when they were putting together the show that there's a... Each of the characters in Fresh Meat are kind of wrapped around this idea of...

503
00:42:28.557 --> 00:42:34.320
being uni students and pretending to be something that, pretending to be something when actually there's something else.

504
00:42:34.781 --> 00:42:37.622
And I asked him that question, like, what do you think Josie was pretending to be?

505
00:42:38.083 --> 00:42:43.486
And she gave me this long, quite in-depth answer about how much she learned from playing Josie.

506
00:42:43.926 --> 00:42:48.168
And I wanted to ask you the same thing, like, who do you think Howard was pretending to be and who do you think he really was?

507
00:42:48.188 --> 00:42:52.011
Do you know what I would argue?

508
00:42:52.031 --> 00:42:52.571
That Howard...

509
00:42:54.291 --> 00:42:58.975
is the only one in the house who knows who he is.

510
00:43:00.476 --> 00:43:10.205
There is a stage in it where they do a kind of odd, glow up or, you know, they try and change his image, Baud tries to change his image and stuff.

511
00:43:10.225 --> 00:43:11.526
And that's just like comedic.

512
00:43:13.488 --> 00:43:16.569
But Howard doesn't really pretend to be anyone else in it.

513
00:43:16.789 --> 00:43:19.811
And I think that's why he is the kind of rock of the house.

514
00:43:20.771 --> 00:43:22.452
Oregon is, of course, trying to be someone else.

515
00:43:22.552 --> 00:43:29.015
And so is Josie and JP and Kingsley's ultimately always try to find himself.

516
00:43:30.115 --> 00:43:33.457
But I kind of feel like Howard is who he is because he can't...

517
00:43:34.737 --> 00:43:36.639
He's not really into pretence, Howard.

518
00:43:36.659 --> 00:43:37.980
He's very straight-talking.

519
00:43:39.321 --> 00:43:42.844
And I think that's what works well in the house.

520
00:43:44.285 --> 00:43:54.534
And eventually, the house is quite drawn to Howard because he's the kind of more solid of the characters there, whereas everyone else is a bit, you know, pretending, pretending, trying to find themselves.

521
00:43:54.554 --> 00:43:59.999
And it's kind of hinted at that Howard's a bit older in the show as well, so maybe the experience is just a little bit more advanced.

522
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:01.240
But I'd argue that Howard does...

523
00:44:02.821 --> 00:44:29.836
Who he is Throughout pretty much the whole show Apart from when they dress him up a bit Yeah he's a character As you say he's a rock The other characters almost come back to him So much There's a lot of coming back to Howard After stuff has happened Yeah that's right Because I don't think Howard has any interest Well he does want to impress He wants to be loved Howard doesn't he With Sabine You know the other on off girlfriends That he has throughout the show Yeah

524
00:44:30.876 --> 00:44:35.340
But ultimately he's more solid than the rest of them by a mile.

525
00:44:36.301 --> 00:44:37.722
Because he's not really pretending.

526
00:44:37.742 --> 00:44:43.306
He doesn't need to find himself in the way that the other characters.

527
00:44:43.326 --> 00:44:44.868
I wouldn't say Josie's superficial.

528
00:44:46.449 --> 00:44:47.610
Oregon is more superficial.

529
00:44:47.670 --> 00:44:49.031
Vod's not superficial actually.

530
00:44:51.053 --> 00:44:52.194
But they're all trying stuff out.

531
00:44:53.355 --> 00:44:54.976
And Howard doesn't feel the need to do that.

532
00:44:55.646 --> 00:45:02.334
And what you just said there about how there's an implicitness about how Howard might be a bit older, even just a bit, than the other housemates.

533
00:45:02.354 --> 00:45:08.442
Do you think the fact that you were, I think I want to say, also the oldest of the main actors, do you think that fed into that at all?

534
00:45:10.006 --> 00:45:11.047
I don't know.

535
00:45:12.248 --> 00:45:12.928
Yeah, possibly.

536
00:45:12.948 --> 00:45:24.737
They used to wind me up for being older and I think I probably was in the friendship group and probably still am the slightly more elder influence.

537
00:45:25.277 --> 00:45:29.560
But we're all equally stupid, I have to say, in our silly personalities.

538
00:45:29.620 --> 00:45:30.781
But yeah, maybe it did.

539
00:45:30.801 --> 00:45:35.264
Maybe you'd have to ask the writers about that and see if that fed into it.

540
00:45:35.304 --> 00:45:35.584
Yeah.

541
00:45:36.645 --> 00:45:42.547
I think once you'd established who Howard was in series one, then I think that seemed to work.

542
00:45:42.587 --> 00:45:49.729
So yeah, in two and three and four, yeah, that did continue, I think, if memory serves.

543
00:45:50.449 --> 00:46:02.352
Well, I mean, speaking of the writers, and we've talked about them a lot already, Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain being the two main ones, but of course, two absolutely in British comedy anyway, and beyond, you know, with stuff like Succession, they've got such a great reputation for the work they've done.

544
00:46:02.372 --> 00:46:03.193
They're incredible.

545
00:46:03.553 --> 00:46:04.453
What would they like to work with?

546
00:46:05.180 --> 00:46:23.795
just a joy just a joy really positive individuals like they are really welcoming and sam is very very calm quietly spoken jesse is just a ball of positive energy they're super respectful loved what we were doing with the characters um

547
00:46:25.376 --> 00:46:38.594
And I've mentioned this before, it was very disciplined though, there was no improvisation, there was no mucking about with the scripts, you know, you weren't there to go, oh can I change the order of that or can I do that?

548
00:46:38.875 --> 00:46:40.978
You weren't there to do that because they'd crafted the scripts.

549
00:46:41.678 --> 00:47:01.836
So they're absolutely lovely But they're also just Shit hot writers So you had to respect their work as well And I think that's the way it should be I think if you're given a script That is brilliant Don't muck about with it Keep it as it is So lovely guys But you were of course They were right Is that no no we need that said I mean people did kind of challenge that It would often It would often

550
00:47:03.386 --> 00:47:04.627
it would often be rejected.

551
00:47:04.967 --> 00:47:06.588
Everything had to be checked through Sam and Jesse.

552
00:47:06.608 --> 00:47:09.129
They were execs and they were writers.

553
00:47:09.189 --> 00:47:10.269
And I think that's right.

554
00:47:10.309 --> 00:47:12.250
They know how to stand up for their own work.

555
00:47:12.871 --> 00:47:14.492
And as a result, we've got a great show.

556
00:47:15.032 --> 00:47:27.178
Because there is a danger in shows, and I've been on things where writers are maybe not held in enough esteem and the scripts get jiggled with and actors start going,

557
00:47:27.978 --> 00:47:31.101
Oh, but I don't think I'd quite say that in that way.

558
00:47:31.181 --> 00:47:34.964
Oh, right, oh, right, okay, oh, right, well, I'll check, no, no, that'll be fine, that'll be fine.

559
00:47:35.024 --> 00:47:36.405
And you end up diluting stuff.

560
00:47:37.205 --> 00:47:38.707
And that's a terrible slippery slope.

561
00:47:38.747 --> 00:47:49.695
So I think all due respect to Sam and Jesse and all of the writers, that the rule was, yeah, we're seeing what's on the page, unless you have got a major, major issue.

562
00:47:50.436 --> 00:47:53.278
So that kept the standard up, that kept it high.

563
00:47:53.798 --> 00:47:55.940
If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage, as they say.

564
00:47:56.252 --> 00:48:03.438
Yes, and I think there's calibres of writers that absolutely 100% deserve that and they are definitely of that calibre.

565
00:48:03.458 --> 00:48:06.600
I mean, Succession was amazing.

566
00:48:06.680 --> 00:48:13.546
I don't think Jesse would mind me saying that, because I don't think he would ever say this, that he invited

567
00:48:14.646 --> 00:48:27.215
a huge amount of people that he'd worked with over the years, you know, Fresh Meat Lot and Peep Show and the various other shows that he'd done, to a special screening of the funeral episode of Succession at the Barbican he put on this night.

568
00:48:28.015 --> 00:48:28.756
And do you know what he did?

569
00:48:29.176 --> 00:48:38.402
He did a speech at the start thanking everyone in the room because by working with all the people in the room, he'd written Succession.

570
00:48:39.323 --> 00:48:41.385
So that's the kind of guy he is.

571
00:48:41.425 --> 00:48:44.648
He wasn't, oh, and I've done this show, and he didn't.

572
00:48:44.788 --> 00:48:47.150
He got everyone in that room to say, thank you.

573
00:48:47.210 --> 00:48:50.413
I've become this level of writer, thanks to working with you all.

574
00:48:50.453 --> 00:48:53.576
And I remember going, oh my God, that's just like, it's classy.

575
00:48:54.556 --> 00:48:55.497
And he didn't need to do that.

576
00:48:55.577 --> 00:49:00.181
And I just thought, what a lovely thing to be a part of to get to see that episode, which is astounding.

577
00:49:00.201 --> 00:49:02.423
The funeral episode, I think one of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen.

578
00:49:03.444 --> 00:49:04.685
But that's the kind of dude he is.

579
00:49:04.705 --> 00:49:06.587
He's a very humble, lovely man.

580
00:49:07.154 --> 00:49:15.536
Kim was talking about that exact happening as well about the succession party and she said how it just basically became a fresh meat kind of vibe.

581
00:49:15.876 --> 00:49:21.797
Like there was stealing from the buffet and she was saying how you'd be like elbowing, like oh my god it's Brian Cox.

582
00:49:21.817 --> 00:49:27.698
We were absolute children at that, we were absolute kids, we were a nightmare, we all got hammered and yeah.

583
00:49:28.178 --> 00:49:32.439
And we were all staying up in London that night so it just got a bit messy, it was really funny.

584
00:49:34.175 --> 00:49:44.741
Yeah, we ended up going to some members club until silly o'clock and we all got a table and Sam and I think we must have just been nightmares by the end of it.

585
00:49:44.901 --> 00:49:45.821
But then that's what happens.

586
00:49:45.841 --> 00:49:49.544
We just turn into children and we're all, yeah, that was a great night actually.

587
00:49:49.564 --> 00:49:50.184
It was really fun.

588
00:49:51.284 --> 00:49:52.065
Oh, idiots.

589
00:49:52.325 --> 00:50:01.151
I can only imagine the absolute energy of having you guys, the Fresh Meat lot, the Peep Show lot, the Succession lot, Jesse Armstrong, Sam Bain, all together in a room.

590
00:50:01.392 --> 00:50:02.773
Yeah, well, that's it, isn't it?

591
00:50:02.793 --> 00:50:04.133
It's these surreal things.

592
00:50:04.173 --> 00:50:07.536
I mean, of course, you know, from an alleyway in Glasgow going, oh, I've got this great part.

593
00:50:08.917 --> 00:50:11.120
Howard, you don't actually know how it's going to go.

594
00:50:11.541 --> 00:50:15.988
You know, you can read a great script, but as I say, there's a lot of component parts.

595
00:50:16.128 --> 00:50:17.130
You're a small part of it.

596
00:50:17.190 --> 00:50:18.993
The script works, but will the production work?

597
00:50:19.093 --> 00:50:20.014
Will it be marketed?

598
00:50:20.074 --> 00:50:20.956
Will it get an audience?

599
00:50:20.976 --> 00:50:21.957
Will the audience enjoy it?

600
00:50:22.037 --> 00:50:22.779
Is there enough in it?

601
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:24.101
Blah-de-blah-blah-blah-blah.

602
00:50:24.561 --> 00:50:35.869
And then fast forward a few years and you're at a succession party and Fresh Meat's been a big hit and then Succession's been this global hit and you're kind of hobnobbing with people at the same time as chucking food at each other.

603
00:50:35.889 --> 00:50:37.871
How lucky I've been to...

604
00:50:41.093 --> 00:50:57.301
to be part of shows that you know you get to do these and these are just little silly things a lot of it's hard work and a lot of it's a bit of a rubbish industry because you don't know what you're doing next and but there are certain highlights and yeah kim's right that was a just a surreal funny highlight so there was food being shocked it's been it was just i remember

605
00:50:58.922 --> 00:51:08.686
Zowie kind of half jokingly saying to Jesse about where's my part in succession, you know, and we were winding Zowie off about that as well.

606
00:51:09.347 --> 00:51:11.908
Because, you know, it's not really the done thing.

607
00:51:12.308 --> 00:51:16.130
You know, the guy's written four seasons of a really successful show for you and it's an American set.

608
00:51:16.190 --> 00:51:22.473
And we were just winding Zowie off about pitching heavies to be in the next succession kind of thing.

609
00:51:22.513 --> 00:51:24.014
But it was all good natured.

610
00:51:25.595 --> 00:51:40.809
and where do I mean this is a question I have to ask as a fan but like where do you think Howard and the rest of the cast but where do you think Howard would be now now that it's been I think best part of 10 years since the show ended where do you think Howard is now I think Howard's

611
00:51:44.436 --> 00:52:01.867
He's just worked his way up the Ordnance Survey and combining his geography skills with some form of AI and tech and he's in quite a steady job and still enjoys Minecraft and

612
00:52:04.301 --> 00:52:26.279
isn't doesn't want to manage people is a loner but not unhappy I think he's probably got a long-term girlfriend that works in one of the last remaining libraries that's still open something like that I think he's he's I think he'll always be quite content Howard because he doesn't rely on other people too much that's where I see him

613
00:52:27.798 --> 00:52:36.221
Whereas I think the others are probably either exploded or been through rehab or on their second marriage or third marriage or whatever.

614
00:52:36.301 --> 00:52:39.962
So I think Howard's steady low key life.

615
00:52:40.682 --> 00:52:41.623
He's a rock.

616
00:52:41.803 --> 00:52:42.383
He's a rock.

617
00:52:42.443 --> 00:52:43.103
I think he is.

618
00:52:43.123 --> 00:52:44.003
He's back to yeah.

619
00:52:44.203 --> 00:52:46.124
Geology, not geography, geology.

620
00:52:46.164 --> 00:52:47.004
God, how could I forget that?

621
00:52:47.645 --> 00:52:48.385
Geology rocks.

622
00:52:48.425 --> 00:52:49.065
Yeah, exactly.

623
00:52:49.105 --> 00:52:53.066
So yeah, I think, I think Howard's a bit of a, he's a happy rock though.

624
00:52:54.047 --> 00:52:55.007
Not outwardly happy.

625
00:52:56.068 --> 00:53:18.329
he doesn't do loads of big smiles Howard but inside he's okay well Kim was saying how in lockdown I think uh someone had approached her about oh you know would you ever go back and do a reunion or where would Josie be now with JP and she was joking that like now she could see Josie being kind of like the um is it Carrie to Boris Johnson

626
00:53:18.689 --> 00:53:19.630
Oh, yeah, yeah.

627
00:53:19.690 --> 00:53:22.852
And JP would be Prime Minister and she'd be kind of the carry to his Boris.

628
00:53:23.252 --> 00:53:25.113
Wow.

629
00:53:25.253 --> 00:53:27.595
That was how she... What an image that is.

630
00:53:27.755 --> 00:53:28.695
Oh, my goodness.

631
00:53:28.775 --> 00:53:30.577
Yeah, that's a pitch to give to Sam and Jesse.

632
00:53:31.877 --> 00:53:33.258
Yeah, is JP...

633
00:53:33.819 --> 00:53:36.941
Someone tells me that JP just went into Mayfair property.

634
00:53:37.841 --> 00:53:40.623
But, yeah, no, that would be quite funny.

635
00:53:40.923 --> 00:53:42.664
I mean, it would be lovely to see where they are.

636
00:53:42.684 --> 00:53:45.866
I don't think Sam and Jesse would ever go back to it, I don't think.

637
00:53:46.567 --> 00:53:46.827
But...

638
00:53:47.527 --> 00:53:49.469
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see, especially where Vod is now.

639
00:53:49.489 --> 00:53:52.491
I wonder what Vod's journey has been.

640
00:53:52.571 --> 00:53:56.494
I think maybe she's in a much calmer place now than where she was.

641
00:53:56.554 --> 00:53:57.575
But yeah, who knows?

642
00:53:58.176 --> 00:54:00.758
I think the last time we saw her at the end of the show, she was heading off to South...

643
00:54:00.778 --> 00:54:03.420
There was like a deleted scene, wasn't there, where you all did a Skype call.

644
00:54:03.580 --> 00:54:04.401
Yes.

645
00:54:04.621 --> 00:54:06.763
And Oregon and Vod are over in South America.

646
00:54:07.183 --> 00:54:09.204
But Vod's kind of abandoned Oregon.

647
00:54:09.224 --> 00:54:10.265
That's right.

648
00:54:10.365 --> 00:54:11.166
I'd forgotten that.

649
00:54:11.206 --> 00:54:11.526
Yeah.

650
00:54:11.566 --> 00:54:11.706
Yeah.

651
00:54:12.852 --> 00:54:13.832
Maybe she's still out there.

652
00:54:13.852 --> 00:54:16.894
Maybe she's still out there and got involved in Columbia and goodness knows what.

653
00:54:16.934 --> 00:54:19.295
So yeah, you just wouldn't know with odd, would you?

654
00:54:20.055 --> 00:54:21.115
Would you ever go back, do you think?

655
00:54:21.135 --> 00:54:28.018
If there was rumblings of getting the Fresh Meat, getting back together like the Likely Lads or This Life, do you think you'd ever go back?

656
00:54:28.038 --> 00:54:28.919
Oh my God, 100%.

657
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:30.139
100% I would.

658
00:54:30.359 --> 00:54:32.140
I mean, some people would say, leave it.

659
00:54:32.220 --> 00:54:33.521
You know, what works, works.

660
00:54:33.541 --> 00:54:35.281
Just don't go back.

661
00:54:36.842 --> 00:54:41.784
But the opportunity to work with those guys again and to do a character that I loved, I think I'd have to, yeah.

662
00:54:43.755 --> 00:54:59.861
I mean I think if you'd asked me that after series 4 I would have gone not out of any malice towards the show but I would have gone well no we've just done that I think that's done but given time and you know I've gone on and done other shows and stuff that I would happily go back and hang out with those idiots again

663
00:55:01.382 --> 00:55:12.375
Something that we ask our guests on the pod is what kind of recommendations they would give our viewers and listeners for stuff that maybe they've been watching recently that's really good or maybe an album they've listened to recently that's really good or a book.

664
00:55:12.455 --> 00:55:18.822
I mean, what have you been, I guess, consuming of late that you would recommend that's been really sort of firing you up and sparking your interest?

665
00:55:19.162 --> 00:55:42.436
Well, there's a band called Beluga Lagoon, a Scottish band Just look them up, look at all their albums, they are phenomenal And I did an event six months ago at the Hydro in Scotland with Martin Compton, an actor chap And he invited me up to do a little thing on stage with him And I watched Beluga Lagoon live

666
00:55:43.497 --> 00:55:44.538
And they are just another world.

667
00:55:44.558 --> 00:55:46.879
They are absolutely amazing, like Scottish.

668
00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:57.927
It's folky, but it's just beautiful vocals and upbeat and then some harrowing tracks, just like really stunning and they're fantastic lives.

669
00:55:57.967 --> 00:56:01.750
My top tip would be Beluga Lagoon for music.

670
00:56:04.312 --> 00:56:06.693
In terms of books, I've been reading quite a lot recently.

671
00:56:06.793 --> 00:56:07.974
Some hit, some miss.

672
00:56:09.876 --> 00:56:11.637
And I have to say I loved Flesh.

673
00:56:13.078 --> 00:56:38.579
The book Flesh It's very harrowing Again I don't know what it is in my psyche That was drawn to the darker stuff But yeah Flesh The book Flesh by David I forgot your second name But it's beautifully written It's a bit like a screenplay actually The way it's written So maybe it taps into my filmic preferences But they would be my top tips And in terms of films Documentary

674
00:56:41.665 --> 00:56:42.486
Oh, I don't know.

675
00:56:42.526 --> 00:56:43.026
I don't know.

676
00:56:43.046 --> 00:56:44.187
I just watch the same films.

677
00:56:44.227 --> 00:56:45.067
Watch The Holdovers.

678
00:56:45.107 --> 00:56:46.829
Watch Marvelous if you've not.

679
00:56:47.249 --> 00:56:50.631
Marvelous is on Amazon or Netflix.

680
00:56:50.651 --> 00:56:51.692
I can't remember which one it's going on to.

681
00:56:51.712 --> 00:56:53.313
I think it's on Prime, actually.

682
00:56:53.893 --> 00:56:54.874
And not because I'm in it.

683
00:56:55.414 --> 00:56:59.878
I just always say to people to watch it if they want just a bit of an uplifting thing to watch.

684
00:56:59.938 --> 00:57:02.059
And it's really good for the soul, that film.

685
00:57:03.160 --> 00:57:03.940
If not, Munich.

686
00:57:04.361 --> 00:57:04.701
LAUGHTER

687
00:57:06.942 --> 00:57:35.172
Go back to Munich Yeah go back to Munich Or Rosalie back to Munich Yeah That's a Spielbergian I was impressed that you That's a bit of a Spielbergian deep cut I want to say You know Yeah I don't know I think the acting in it as well Is incredible It's very dark But as I say The futility of revenge Is You know We're not getting away from that In society are we At any level From street crime To Wars And These The idea of male Revenge Is

688
00:57:35.932 --> 00:57:38.233
is what holds the planet back, isn't it?

689
00:57:38.293 --> 00:57:40.575
It's not female-led revenge, is it?

690
00:57:40.615 --> 00:57:43.997
It's male-led egotistical revenge.

691
00:57:44.017 --> 00:57:58.945
And I think there's something about what that film says about even where we're at today and all the tragedies we keep seeing internationally and locally, and there's a lesson in how do we stop the cycle of revenge.

692
00:57:59.848 --> 00:58:05.351
I've actually got a slight change of tone, but I've got a funny story about the making of Munich, actually, which I just remembered.

693
00:58:05.391 --> 00:58:07.212
What brilliant.

694
00:58:07.772 --> 00:58:10.233
Which I just remembered, which I can share with you now.

695
00:58:10.854 --> 00:58:15.736
So a couple of years ago, I got to visit the set of Ghostbusters Frozen Empire.

696
00:58:15.836 --> 00:58:16.256
Oh, cool.

697
00:58:16.276 --> 00:58:19.518
Which was the most recent one, just for a couple of days.

698
00:58:19.558 --> 00:58:27.522
And I was chatting to, because I'm a sort of film nut, so I was just chatting to anyone who I could, who wasn't busy that I could talk to, like the crew and...

699
00:58:28.002 --> 00:58:47.451
and the cast and and i was chatting chatting to um the prop master yeah who's a bit who i can't remember his name which is terrible but he was a lovely guy and he was like one of the go-to prop masters yeah he worked a lot of spielberg and he was the prop master on munich oh my goodness and he told me this story about um how he when they were making munich i think they i don't know where they shot it maybe they shot it in the uk some

700
00:58:48.211 --> 00:58:53.173
and he was dressing a room, because that's part of, you know, he would do the props, but he would also help dress the rooms and the sets.

701
00:58:53.534 --> 00:58:59.276
And he was dressing a room that was about to have a bomb go off in it in the course of the plot of the movie.

702
00:58:59.596 --> 00:59:01.858
So I think he had dressed the room before the bomb got off.

703
00:59:01.898 --> 00:59:04.279
Then it was like, right, okay, the bomb's gone off, let's redress this set.

704
00:59:04.539 --> 00:59:06.920
So then he was redressing the set after the bomb got off.

705
00:59:06.940 --> 00:59:11.402
So he was, like, throwing, like, dust everywhere, fake blood and stuff, like squibs, like, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah.

706
00:59:11.682 --> 00:59:12.422
And he's doing all this.

707
00:59:12.543 --> 00:59:15.444
And he's, like, covered head to toe in, like, blood and dusts.

708
00:59:15.885 --> 00:59:17.468
like fake domestic violence by doing this.

709
00:59:17.829 --> 00:59:19.874
And Spielberg walks onto the set

710
00:59:20.817 --> 00:59:46.100
to start presumably start the day shooting yeah he comes up and he spots him and he walks right up to the prop master and he sort of stands in front of him looks him up and down and goes are you enjoying your job and that's brilliant the guy's like hell yeah covered in like you know fake blood and dust oh that's lovely that's such a nice image isn't it imagine spielberg as well just coming up to you yeah and you are enjoying your job that's what's even better on top of that isn't it

711
00:59:47.020 --> 01:00:01.972
oh you see I'd love to have been on that set I mean I'd love to be in it obviously but just to see how they did it oh some of the scenes are so brutal anyway let's not let's not spell that not on the brutality of it yeah brutal film but quite a funny you know like hearted stuff yeah I love it

712
01:00:03.433 --> 01:00:03.653
Yeah.

713
01:00:03.814 --> 01:00:06.558
And what kind of stuff have you got coming up that we can look forward to?

714
01:00:06.578 --> 01:00:10.183
What have you got in the pipeline, projects-wise, that we can...

715
01:00:10.203 --> 01:00:19.517
The thing I'm most proud about that I've done this year, I've got something that comes out that they say I can't even mention, which is beyond me why I can't mention stuff if it's coming out way in the year, but...

716
01:00:21.398 --> 01:00:42.372
Press people get slightly I don't know They just want to control when stuff's announced But the thing I can talk about That is going to be released in a scheme In October Is I've written a play An adaptation of Romeo and Juliet Which is rather than the Montagues and the Capulets It's his left wing and right wing Elements of a small village And about a young guy who

717
01:00:43.413 --> 01:00:53.099
follows in tow along to this anti-immigrant protest outside X-hotel, is what we should be calling them, asylum, where people are seeking asylum in X-hotel.

718
01:00:53.919 --> 01:01:02.485
And the young chap who's on the right wing, isn't really right wing, kind of falls for the asylum seeker character, Jasmine.

719
01:01:03.285 --> 01:01:07.009
And it's a story just about how they build a friendship and how she doesn't trust him.

720
01:01:07.710 --> 01:01:14.697
And the conflict between left-wing views and right-wing views in the local community, which is obviously rife up and down the country.

721
01:01:15.398 --> 01:01:17.941
So that scheme's called Positive Stories for Negative Times.

722
01:01:18.922 --> 01:01:35.122
And basically I commissioned as a writer to do it, but then I give away any kind of production rights So anyone can put it on, school groups can put it on, youth groups can put it on And I'm really proud of it, I think it's the best thing I've ever written to be honest

723
01:01:35.642 --> 01:01:39.684
It's only an hour long and it's aimed at 15 to 20 year olds, I suppose.

724
01:01:41.025 --> 01:01:44.227
And I just want every school to get hold of a copy.

725
01:01:44.247 --> 01:01:53.092
And even if they don't put it on as a production, is hopefully just read it and start a debate about, you know, it's not a didactic finger wagging.

726
01:01:54.213 --> 01:02:01.316
My views are left wing and I've got very strong left wing views, but this is not me screaming from the top of my left wing.

727
01:02:02.297 --> 01:02:23.011
parapet it's it's hopefully a basis of discussion about where we are and and and how both sides of this situation need to try and listen to to each other and stuff like that so that's that starts in october and already i've had hundreds of groups sign up to do it which is amazing i'm going to keep screaming about it because it

728
01:02:23.591 --> 01:02:38.175
I've written it as Scottish slant, but it can be put on anywhere, and part of the rules of the engagement is that groups can alter, not like Sam and Jesse, they can alter the language and make it local and specific to them.

729
01:02:38.195 --> 01:02:39.396
That's part of the thing.

730
01:02:39.896 --> 01:02:49.579
Obviously, I'm a 46-year-old white dude writing it, and if there was changes in vernacular or whatever they wanted to do, they could change it.

731
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:51.119
So I'm encouraging people to look into it.

732
01:02:51.414 --> 01:02:52.135
That's amazing.

733
01:02:52.215 --> 01:02:53.155
That sounds great.

734
01:02:53.255 --> 01:02:57.618
And is it already, did you say it's already being booked to be put on anywhere in London?

735
01:02:58.059 --> 01:03:03.362
Well, it's basically, the scheme is so that groups without any budget at all can do it.

736
01:03:03.402 --> 01:03:07.325
So there's no theatre signed up to do it at the moment, but it would be open to theatres to do.

737
01:03:09.787 --> 01:03:14.010
But basically I had to write it so that it could be performed in any space, any room.

738
01:03:14.070 --> 01:03:17.052
So there's not big tech requirements for it at all.

739
01:03:17.672 --> 01:03:21.114
So at the moment, it'll be put on by schools and youth groups and stuff like that.

740
01:03:21.174 --> 01:03:25.196
But I've not taken it out to theatres yet, but I'm going to be pushing for that to happen as well.

741
01:03:25.736 --> 01:03:26.477
That's amazing.

742
01:03:26.497 --> 01:03:26.737
Thank you.

743
01:03:26.757 --> 01:03:27.557
That sounds fantastic.

744
01:03:27.677 --> 01:03:33.220
And am I right in thinking that there's maybe some more Gary Tank Commander stuff coming down the pipe as well?

745
01:03:33.320 --> 01:03:37.823
I remember you were on a podcast a little while ago and you said there was some stuff you've been holding back.

746
01:03:38.143 --> 01:03:39.363
Yeah, there's monologues.

747
01:03:39.383 --> 01:03:40.044
I've written monologues.

748
01:03:40.064 --> 01:03:45.927
We just need to film them and I'll put them out because Gary's got a lot of views on, obviously, what's going on in the world at the moment.

749
01:03:46.907 --> 01:03:54.831
There's no plans to develop it into a TV series, but I'm going to stick the monologues out and see just what people think of them.

750
01:03:54.851 --> 01:04:01.015
Because Gary, obviously with the state of the world, Gary's got some pretty strong views on what's going on.

751
01:04:01.035 --> 01:04:07.398
So yes, they are yet to be released, but they're written, the stuff's written to be shot and put out.

752
01:04:07.658 --> 01:04:13.884
That's fantastic, because that's a character that we've touched on a little bit, but it's such a huge cult following, I think, in the UK, particularly in Scotland, of course.

753
01:04:13.964 --> 01:04:14.264
Yeah.

754
01:04:14.324 --> 01:04:15.886
And it's such a great character.

755
01:04:16.086 --> 01:04:20.250
And just the way you were talking there about the bits.

756
01:04:20.270 --> 01:04:23.412
Because he did start, and that was kind of the format he started, I want to say, right?

757
01:04:23.432 --> 01:04:27.196
There's monologues, was kind of put to YouTube, was kind of the initial format.

758
01:04:27.276 --> 01:04:28.297
It was, yeah.

759
01:04:28.577 --> 01:04:31.720
It was quite an interesting process there, because people say, oh, did it come out of stand-up?

760
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:32.100
It didn't.

761
01:04:32.120 --> 01:04:33.482
It actually came from a short film film.

762
01:04:34.182 --> 01:04:40.185
that me and my mates shot in Enra Festival time 2005 when I was dying on my arse every day.

763
01:04:41.166 --> 01:04:49.350
And then after that, Shane Allen, who was head of Channel 4 Comedy at that point, said, I think you should go and do that character live.

764
01:04:50.010 --> 01:04:52.991
And I said, oh, Shane, if there's one thing I know about that character, it will never work live.

765
01:04:53.031 --> 01:04:55.593
But it did because he didn't care.

766
01:04:56.553 --> 01:04:58.374
And that was something I wasn't used to as a performer.

767
01:04:58.454 --> 01:05:00.515
As a stand-up, I used to go out and be like,

768
01:05:00.735 --> 01:05:29.811
Oh hi how you doing What's your Oh what's your Oh is anyone You know Just like banal And then when you go As a character who Does not care I used to just go on And just stand For ages Just like Total control of a room And it was such An eye opener You know that's an interesting One for acting as well as When I got to do That character Who doesn't care It kind of In your mind Doesn't matter About the gig as much And the gigs would go well Once I'd learned How to write proper stuff For Gary

769
01:05:31.372 --> 01:05:40.080
But that was a really interesting period actually going, oh my God, I'm about to walk out in front of 400 people and just pretend I don't care.

770
01:05:40.140 --> 01:05:43.123
It's quite an interesting thing in your mind.

771
01:05:43.704 --> 01:05:45.505
So, yeah, no, Gary was very, very good to me.

772
01:05:45.525 --> 01:05:47.007
And I think Gary was actually a large part of,

773
01:05:48.668 --> 01:05:50.349
me getting seen for fresh me, I think.

774
01:05:50.649 --> 01:05:57.332
The show had done very well in Scotland and I believe it was David Kerr's wife actually who said to David about the show.

775
01:05:58.293 --> 01:06:00.634
And she said, oh, you should see that guy, see what he would do.

776
01:06:00.954 --> 01:06:02.615
Because obviously Gary's the polar opposite.

777
01:06:03.316 --> 01:06:04.016
So it was lovely.

778
01:06:04.036 --> 01:06:07.078
Yeah, that's why it was so crucial for me.

779
01:06:08.779 --> 01:06:21.869
to go and prove to people that I wasn't the one trick Gary Pony and Howard, you know, really showed to other people what I could do in terms of the other end of the comedy landscape, I suppose.

780
01:06:22.790 --> 01:06:26.873
But, yeah, no, Gary's been very generous to me over the years.

781
01:06:27.754 --> 01:06:27.914
Um...

782
01:06:29.495 --> 01:06:33.118
And I do Panto as Gary, so I'm doing that this year.

783
01:06:33.138 --> 01:06:33.999
I do, yeah.

784
01:06:34.860 --> 01:06:37.402
So Gary and Panto is a riot.

785
01:06:38.303 --> 01:06:44.828
Yeah, I wind up a lot of people and be a bit naughty on stage as Gary because he's just high camp and ridiculous.

786
01:06:45.068 --> 01:06:51.712
Do you find that when you're playing that character on stage or on screen, like your brain, like, because when you're in character, you're in character and you're acting how Gary would.

787
01:06:51.732 --> 01:07:01.858
Do you find your brain, you're going in places that he would go that are kind of spontaneous, like if you're doing Panzer, which is so... Gary, I mean, Gary's terrifying because he's in my head.

788
01:07:02.658 --> 01:07:05.443
So when I switch into that, that is 100%.

789
01:07:06.505 --> 01:07:15.802
You know, if I'm doing a runner's Gary, I've done it as stand-up and I've done improv chat shows with him and all the rest of it, is Greg, now this will sound ridiculous, but this is true,

790
01:07:17.131 --> 01:07:23.173
If it's me in the dressing room before I'm going on, I'm like, oh, do I have to do this again?

791
01:07:24.034 --> 01:07:27.195
And then about 10 minutes, once I get all my stuff on and I'm Gary, I'm like, I can't wait.

792
01:07:27.595 --> 01:07:28.556
This is amazing.

793
01:07:28.856 --> 01:07:30.496
I get to go back out on the stage again.

794
01:07:30.516 --> 01:07:33.918
It is just, it means you can't be in a bad mood.

795
01:07:34.758 --> 01:07:36.959
So when I'm on stage, I'm never going, oh, I don't want to be doing this.

796
01:07:37.839 --> 01:07:39.300
Just because Gary is a child.

797
01:07:39.620 --> 01:07:43.422
He's a, he's an, people have asked me in the past about sexuality.

798
01:07:43.442 --> 01:07:45.562
He's like, to me, Gary is asexual child.

799
01:07:45.843 --> 01:07:46.583
That's what he is.

800
01:07:47.343 --> 01:07:53.429
So with that, the naivety, the innocence, the energy of a child means that that goes into you.

801
01:07:53.649 --> 01:07:54.630
It absolutely does.

802
01:07:55.010 --> 01:07:55.871
Yeah.

803
01:07:55.911 --> 01:07:58.413
It's not healthy, I don't think, but it helps.

804
01:07:58.673 --> 01:07:59.554
It definitely helps.

805
01:07:59.994 --> 01:08:04.898
So you think there is like a sort of split, but there's Greg and then there's Gary.

806
01:08:05.018 --> 01:08:05.659
I think there is.

807
01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:07.681
I think there is a weird, weird split.

808
01:08:07.721 --> 01:08:08.621
And he's tiring.

809
01:08:08.702 --> 01:08:10.003
It is tiring to do him for...

810
01:08:10.683 --> 01:08:31.400
things but then when you're not being yourself it is kind of almost yeah it's always going to be more tiring but yeah there's a definite split but once I'm in that um you know he's banned from the house like my wife's like she's just like don't don't do Gary in the house sometimes occasionally I'll I'll just do something stupid but um yeah it's a different person

811
01:08:31.591 --> 01:08:32.993
A little bit like cheesy, what are we having tonight?

812
01:08:33.013 --> 01:08:33.633
Cheesy pasta.

813
01:08:33.653 --> 01:08:34.895
Cheesy pasta, exactly.

814
01:08:35.996 --> 01:08:37.198
Nope, that's banned.

815
01:08:37.238 --> 01:08:40.161
And then even the kids will say, no, dad, you're not allowed to do that.

816
01:08:40.221 --> 01:08:40.722
Even the kids?

817
01:08:40.822 --> 01:08:41.182
Yeah.

818
01:08:41.222 --> 01:08:41.643
They've been told.

819
01:08:41.663 --> 01:08:44.907
They get a bit freaked out by, yeah, when he pops up.

820
01:08:46.648 --> 01:09:10.720
Oh that's fabulous I mean do they But they've seen They've seen the show Presumably Do you know They haven't seen the sitcom yet But they've seen me do Panto as Gary And they love that Because it's just big silly And you know They all have panto They're only young So But they've not watched The actual Sitcom yet And I'm not mad I don't push my shows On them or anything So I'll let them find that When they Or if they want to

821
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:20.382
Do you have a favourite memory of Gary Tank Commander, of being Gary, or whether on stage or on screen?

822
01:09:21.642 --> 01:09:24.323
There's a couple of gigs that stand out.

823
01:09:24.383 --> 01:09:31.965
I did the 100 year anniversary of the Queen's Hall in Edinburgh and I headlined that and it was a great act on before me.

824
01:09:32.745 --> 01:09:37.626
And I had a great gig at the end and felt the pressure to be very good.

825
01:09:38.206 --> 01:09:41.167
And on that night, if things came together, I remember that.

826
01:09:41.207 --> 01:09:43.568
And that was a big event, you know, 100 years of the Queen's Hall.

827
01:09:43.588 --> 01:09:44.908
That was really special, actually.

828
01:09:45.608 --> 01:09:49.749
And then the other thing was just arriving on set on the first day of episode one.

829
01:09:50.009 --> 01:09:51.810
And I'd written the sitcom.

830
01:09:52.890 --> 01:10:16.123
and we were we'd made a mini iraq and and there was camera crews and there was sound people it was catering and the producer went you've done this and of course you've not you've done it with help he's like the script editor and a team around you but he said you've done this and i was like oh my god you know that blows your mind nothing prepares you when you turn up and

831
01:10:16.703 --> 01:10:42.381
there's all these people there to make your your thing that's that's mad yeah really mad i can imagine yeah as the kind of as the voice behind that character in that show you know being the writer the performer you know producing it yeah i'd like to see your baby yeah come alive yeah that it is really mad and then of course i did the hydro uh shows live shows and they were in front of 10 000 people a night and and i'll not forget that because i come down on a wire the rest of the boys

832
01:10:44.082 --> 01:11:06.004
managed to get this helicopter constructed and so they they abseil down at speed like soldiers and then i come down in slow mo to take your breath away you know take my breath away as gary with my leg out and i'll see 10 000 people out there you go yeah that's quite mad yeah and now he might be coming back to talk about what what is he talking about with the world today

833
01:11:08.344 --> 01:11:25.979
Oh man, he talks about quite a lot of stuff I won't ruin too much But you could say Gary's Had a bit of promotion A sideways promotion And he's talking about Europe NATO Putin, North Korea Russia Russia

834
01:11:27.539 --> 01:11:43.125
and climate change and I've written some really mad stuff actually I won't I won't ruin too much but it's just all of the current issues that would not be broadcast on tv so hopefully they'll work out

835
01:11:43.446 --> 01:11:43.806
Fabulous.

836
01:11:43.846 --> 01:11:46.827
And with the subtitles, the text popping up on screen.

837
01:11:47.047 --> 01:11:50.229
Yes, my mate's an editor and we've gone through how we're going to do that as well.

838
01:11:50.329 --> 01:11:52.049
So, yeah, there'll be a bit of that.

839
01:11:52.229 --> 01:11:57.051
Because even when you go back and watch that first episode, just little things like thingy, little words just pop up.

840
01:11:57.091 --> 01:12:00.052
The most random little words of what he's saying, like thingy comes up and it's so funny.

841
01:12:00.152 --> 01:12:02.313
Well, do you know, that was not me at all, I have to say.

842
01:12:02.333 --> 01:12:04.774
That was just very clever by the director and the editor.

843
01:12:04.794 --> 01:12:05.914
I think they came up with that.

844
01:12:05.994 --> 01:12:06.955
I stayed out of the edit.

845
01:12:07.095 --> 01:12:12.757
I'd written it and I'd shot it, but I never went into the edit, which is probably not great, but my brain was always so fried by the time we'd...

846
01:12:13.737 --> 01:12:16.698
I'd done the writing for six months, then done it, and then by the edit.

847
01:12:16.738 --> 01:12:19.159
But yeah, that was the editor and the director who came up with that.

848
01:12:19.179 --> 01:12:20.000
But it was a lovely touch.

849
01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:21.500
And I'll steal that back.

850
01:12:22.461 --> 01:12:22.881
Fabulous.

851
01:12:22.921 --> 01:12:25.862
Well, hey, Greg, this has been such a pleasure chatting to you.

852
01:12:25.882 --> 01:12:26.643
Oh, absolute pleasure, mate.

853
01:12:26.703 --> 01:12:27.123
Pleasure.

854
01:12:27.283 --> 01:12:29.744
Thanks for coming on the show and for giving up your time to talk to us.

855
01:12:29.764 --> 01:12:30.164
Not at all.

856
01:12:30.304 --> 01:12:30.864
Thank you, Billy.

857
01:12:30.884 --> 01:12:31.284
Thank you.

858
01:12:31.344 --> 01:12:34.966
And I can't wait to see both the play and hopefully a bit more Gary.

859
01:12:34.986 --> 01:12:36.066
You know, what have you got coming next?

860
01:12:36.206 --> 01:12:36.547
Cheers.

861
01:12:36.607 --> 01:12:37.307
Thank you very much.