WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.231 --> 00:00:03.012 Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the WayEK podcast. 2 00:00:03.272 --> 00:00:08.433 Today's episode is a really exciting one that we actually filmed all the way back in November 2025. 3 00:00:08.793 --> 00:00:12.234 It's super exciting as this episode is actually hosted by Jesse and Zania. 4 00:00:12.474 --> 00:00:20.895 We'll be joined by Nikki and Pippa Gumbel, who have been instrumental in creating one of the most effective evangelism tools the Western church has ever seen, the Alpha Course. 5 00:00:21.436 --> 00:00:26.357 This is an incredible episode, hearing the origin story of Alpha and getting to know the people behind it. 6 00:00:26.737 --> 00:00:27.477 I hope you enjoy it. 7 00:00:32.167 --> 00:00:34.888 Hey guys and welcome back to the Way UK podcast. 8 00:00:35.289 --> 00:00:35.969 My name is Jesse. 9 00:00:36.309 --> 00:00:39.391 I'm here today with the wonderful Xenia across from me. 10 00:00:39.651 --> 00:00:43.493 Today we're filming underneath the live Alpha experience. 11 00:00:44.253 --> 00:00:45.794 Currently they're filming the Alpha series. 12 00:00:46.094 --> 00:00:51.377 If you don't know what the Alpha series is, we're going to talk about it today because we've got two awesome special guests. 13 00:00:51.417 --> 00:00:51.817 Yeah. 14 00:00:52.097 --> 00:00:53.398 Nikki and Pippa Gumbel. 15 00:00:53.798 --> 00:00:54.399 Welcome guys. 16 00:00:54.419 --> 00:00:55.159 Welcome to the podcast. 17 00:00:55.179 --> 00:00:56.260 We're so thrilled to be with you. 18 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:56.560 Thank you. 19 00:00:56.580 --> 00:00:56.860 Yeah, we're 20 00:00:57.100 --> 00:01:02.464 And you've already played a very important part in Alpha because you've been on the Youth Alpha Film Series. 21 00:01:02.504 --> 00:01:03.264 Yes, we have. 22 00:01:03.284 --> 00:01:06.026 Two stars of the Youth Alpha Film Series. 23 00:01:06.366 --> 00:01:07.687 Xenia was the star over here. 24 00:01:07.847 --> 00:01:09.288 She was preaching away. 25 00:01:09.308 --> 00:01:11.510 I was just doing the easy questions. 26 00:01:11.610 --> 00:01:13.671 No, that was a very important part too, Jessie. 27 00:01:13.691 --> 00:01:14.852 You had a very key role. 28 00:01:14.872 --> 00:01:15.973 You had pizza with someone. 29 00:01:15.993 --> 00:01:18.135 That was my highlight. 30 00:01:18.295 --> 00:01:24.199 But yeah, Alpha is an evangelism tool used around the world to introduce people to faith. 31 00:01:24.679 --> 00:01:26.060 through just simple discussion. 32 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:28.961 Me and Zen, as you said, we're part of the youth series. 33 00:01:29.221 --> 00:01:33.284 And you're going to be part of the next film series that they're filming upstairs. 34 00:01:33.384 --> 00:01:33.904 We are indeed. 35 00:01:33.924 --> 00:01:34.484 The hosts. 36 00:01:34.884 --> 00:01:35.565 Come on. 37 00:01:35.585 --> 00:01:37.546 The more to be seen in the future. 38 00:01:38.466 --> 00:01:39.727 But yeah, there's a little bit of context. 39 00:01:39.977 --> 00:01:40.157 Yeah. 40 00:01:40.377 --> 00:01:53.084 And we're so excited to chat with you guys because for those who don't know, Nikki and Pippa have been flying the alpha flag for years and years, but we know that's where you are now, but that isn't always where you guys started. 41 00:01:53.504 --> 00:01:59.747 So we'd love to kind of go back to, I guess, the origins of your story, talk about like, I guess, how you came to faith. 42 00:02:00.408 --> 00:02:04.810 So yeah, I would love to hear from whoever wants to start, but like, did you grow up in a Christian home? 43 00:02:05.190 --> 00:02:06.431 How did you come to know Jesus? 44 00:02:07.111 --> 00:02:07.351 Wow. 45 00:02:07.651 --> 00:02:08.112 Tell us. 46 00:02:08.212 --> 00:02:08.972 Tell us the story. 47 00:02:09.373 --> 00:02:10.013 Okay. 48 00:02:10.093 --> 00:02:13.695 Well, back in the day, sort of about Noah's Ark. 49 00:02:13.915 --> 00:02:15.977 Two years ago. 50 00:02:16.037 --> 00:02:17.017 Very long time ago. 51 00:02:18.458 --> 00:02:20.980 Alexander the Great. 52 00:02:21.820 --> 00:02:28.504 I grew up in a sort of a lovely family, lovely, with good Christian values, but it was, faith wasn't talked about. 53 00:02:29.025 --> 00:02:32.227 We went to church from time to time, but we didn't have Bibles. 54 00:02:32.267 --> 00:02:33.307 We didn't pray. 55 00:02:33.367 --> 00:02:33.768 We didn't. 56 00:02:34.408 --> 00:02:37.389 I never realized you could have a relationship with Jesus. 57 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:39.750 And so that's how I grew up. 58 00:02:39.790 --> 00:02:41.150 I was having fun, quite a good life. 59 00:02:41.590 --> 00:02:42.630 I met Nicky. 60 00:02:45.311 --> 00:02:47.612 We were about 17, 18. 61 00:02:48.052 --> 00:02:50.853 Or rather, when I say I met Nicky, I actually rang him up. 62 00:02:51.353 --> 00:02:52.313 Oh, okay. 63 00:02:52.353 --> 00:02:52.973 Now tell us that. 64 00:02:52.993 --> 00:02:55.294 I wanted to get into a nightclub. 65 00:02:55.614 --> 00:02:56.895 that we all used to go to. 66 00:02:57.675 --> 00:03:00.317 And I needed a member and Nicky was a member. 67 00:03:00.477 --> 00:03:02.218 And so someone gave me his telephone number. 68 00:03:02.238 --> 00:03:02.898 I'd never met him. 69 00:03:02.938 --> 00:03:08.622 I just rang him out of the blue, strange thing to do, and asked if he'd get me into this nightclub, which he said yes. 70 00:03:09.402 --> 00:03:12.484 So that's how I met Nicky and we became friends. 71 00:03:12.724 --> 00:03:19.628 He went off up to Cambridge and during that time he became a Christian, but I didn't sort of realise that. 72 00:03:20.128 --> 00:03:22.490 And I re-met him at a party and, 73 00:03:23.270 --> 00:03:28.774 Um, and we used to go to quite a lot of these parties and I thought they were really cool. 74 00:03:28.814 --> 00:03:29.235 They were fun. 75 00:03:29.755 --> 00:03:35.499 And Nicky came up to me and said, um, that I looked awful and that I needed Jesus. 76 00:03:35.880 --> 00:03:37.981 Oh, great. 77 00:03:38.001 --> 00:03:38.381 Yeah. 78 00:03:38.481 --> 00:03:38.742 Wow. 79 00:03:39.062 --> 00:03:41.364 So I thought you'd go on, Matt. 80 00:03:42.004 --> 00:03:43.525 I thought you'd go on completely bonkers. 81 00:03:44.106 --> 00:03:49.330 And I decided to have, uh, nothing more to do with him really, or to keep him at arm's length. 82 00:03:49.410 --> 00:03:49.470 Um, 83 00:03:50.190 --> 00:03:56.032 And then, amazingly, about six months later, I met these young people who'd call themselves Christians. 84 00:03:56.112 --> 00:04:02.173 I'd never really met, apart from then, Nikki, the people who called themselves Christians. 85 00:04:02.233 --> 00:04:06.135 I'd met people who went to church or had a faith, but who called themselves Christians. 86 00:04:06.175 --> 00:04:11.436 And they were all young and they were fun and they had purpose and meaning in their lives. 87 00:04:12.316 --> 00:04:16.838 And they were so loving and accepting of me that I didn't have to prove myself. 88 00:04:16.918 --> 00:04:17.878 It could just be. 89 00:04:18.678 --> 00:04:19.639 And I was intrigued. 90 00:04:19.719 --> 00:04:21.960 And they'd opened this sort of restaurant. 91 00:04:21.980 --> 00:04:29.464 They converted a garage in London into a sort of drop-in place where you could go and eat and talk. 92 00:04:30.144 --> 00:04:32.625 I didn't realise, actually, that they were all Christians at first. 93 00:04:32.665 --> 00:04:34.987 I started hanging out there because I thought they were so nice. 94 00:04:35.467 --> 00:04:38.869 And you'd get free food and you could sort of just check. 95 00:04:38.909 --> 00:04:40.229 Yes, free food. 96 00:04:40.269 --> 00:04:40.670 Come on. 97 00:04:41.510 --> 00:04:56.294 And then somebody just started talking to me about faith and someone opened the Bible one day with me and turned to that passage in John 10, verse 10, that says, I came that you might have life and life to all its fullness. 98 00:04:56.594 --> 00:05:00.895 And it was as though a light went on at that moment. 99 00:05:01.475 --> 00:05:04.335 And I realized that that's what I wanted. 100 00:05:04.435 --> 00:05:11.137 I went home and knelt by my head and prayed the first meaningful prayer I'd ever prayed, asking Jesus into my life. 101 00:05:11.857 --> 00:05:33.483 and that changed everything i'm you know from there i've had my ups and downs in faith for sure but that was when i knew that i was a christian wow that's so i love how it's like just the simple moment of opening the word of someone and like jesus just speaks for himself and it's just like there he is that's so cool what about you nikki 102 00:05:34.003 --> 00:05:36.565 Well, I didn't come from a Christian home at all. 103 00:05:36.585 --> 00:05:41.650 My mother would have called herself, I think, Church of England, but didn't go to church. 104 00:05:42.251 --> 00:05:44.973 And my father was Jewish. 105 00:05:45.113 --> 00:05:47.356 He was from Germany. 106 00:05:47.976 --> 00:05:56.944 My mother told me when I was 14, your father is German and Jewish and you are never to speak to him about it. 107 00:05:57.810 --> 00:05:59.650 So I never spoke to him about it. 108 00:05:59.750 --> 00:06:01.811 I didn't know anything about my father at all. 109 00:06:03.071 --> 00:06:14.773 And I've only really in the last year discovered, age 70 now, I've discovered who my father was and a bit about his background. 110 00:06:16.234 --> 00:06:18.094 And over the years, I have discovered a little bit. 111 00:06:18.454 --> 00:06:19.774 So my father died in 1981, but here we are, 112 00:06:22.890 --> 00:06:27.214 44 years later, I'm only really discovering my family. 113 00:06:27.794 --> 00:06:33.199 So I've discovered that my great-grandfather was called Isaac. 114 00:06:33.899 --> 00:06:36.501 My great-great-grandfather was Abraham. 115 00:06:36.922 --> 00:06:38.443 Not the Abraham, but... 116 00:06:39.424 --> 00:06:40.044 Are you sure? 117 00:06:41.586 --> 00:06:45.609 I'm not that old. 118 00:06:45.629 --> 00:06:53.416 So he wasn't a practicing Jew, so I didn't have any of the Jewish upbringing, but he was an agnostic. 119 00:06:54.036 --> 00:06:58.200 And so there was really no faith in our household anymore. 120 00:06:58.955 --> 00:07:07.981 Then when I was a teenager, I kind of thought about these things and I came to the conclusion I was an atheist. 121 00:07:08.963 --> 00:07:14.346 And I wrote an essay at school disproving the existence of God, which I was very proud of. 122 00:07:14.386 --> 00:07:17.247 And it won some school prize for religious knowledge. 123 00:07:18.127 --> 00:07:24.750 I was very pretentious, called myself a logical determinist and argued strongly against the Christian faith. 124 00:07:25.130 --> 00:07:32.214 And then my first year at university, my good friends, Nikki and Silla Lee, they weren't married them. 125 00:07:32.294 --> 00:07:36.756 Nikki and his girlfriend Silla came back one evening and told me that they become Christians. 126 00:07:37.616 --> 00:07:43.219 And I literally was horrified because they were my best friends. 127 00:07:43.919 --> 00:07:45.020 And they've become Christians. 128 00:07:45.140 --> 00:07:46.560 And I was so worried about them. 129 00:07:47.141 --> 00:07:49.182 So that night, literally it was that night. 130 00:07:49.242 --> 00:07:50.863 It was about 11 o'clock at night, they told me. 131 00:07:51.503 --> 00:07:57.506 And I looked around and I thought, I'm going to study religion and philosophy and help them. 132 00:07:58.358 --> 00:08:01.979 And the only thing I could find was an old Bible I'd had at school for RE. 133 00:08:02.619 --> 00:08:04.039 And I started reading that night. 134 00:08:04.099 --> 00:08:07.960 And I read all the way through Matthew's Gospel, all the way through Luke. 135 00:08:08.260 --> 00:08:11.321 Halfway through John's Gospel, I fell asleep, carried on reading. 136 00:08:11.361 --> 00:08:14.442 I was a student, didn't have any work to do, so I just kept reading. 137 00:08:14.502 --> 00:08:14.862 As you did. 138 00:08:15.242 --> 00:08:15.922 Kept reading. 139 00:08:16.202 --> 00:08:22.504 And I became convinced it was true, just from reading the New Testament. 140 00:08:22.524 --> 00:08:22.684 Wow. 141 00:08:23.104 --> 00:08:25.985 Because to me, the Gospels have a ring of truth about them. 142 00:08:26.642 --> 00:08:29.004 And I thought, this is true, but I'm an atheist. 143 00:08:29.084 --> 00:08:30.625 How can this be reconciled? 144 00:08:30.965 --> 00:08:32.466 And I've always argued for atheism. 145 00:08:32.986 --> 00:08:36.969 So, you know, I can look so stupid if I say now I'm a Christian. 146 00:08:37.469 --> 00:08:39.810 So I thought, well, I'll put it off to my deathbed. 147 00:08:40.331 --> 00:08:43.753 And then, you know, I can sort of, and also I thought life would be terrible. 148 00:08:43.773 --> 00:08:44.793 I'd have to give up so much. 149 00:08:45.354 --> 00:08:50.137 So I thought, I'll put it off to my deathbed, then I'll become a Christian. 150 00:08:50.237 --> 00:08:52.398 And then I thought, there's no integrity about that. 151 00:08:52.518 --> 00:08:54.500 I've got to do it, although life's going to be miserable. 152 00:08:55.489 --> 00:08:59.150 And so I just sort of said, okay, I give in kind of thing. 153 00:08:59.910 --> 00:09:03.972 And, you know, the verse that Pip's mentioned was true for me. 154 00:09:04.512 --> 00:09:08.713 Jesus said, I can, you might have life and life in all its fullness. 155 00:09:09.353 --> 00:09:11.874 And at that moment, that's what I experienced. 156 00:09:12.414 --> 00:09:13.875 And then I was so excited about it. 157 00:09:13.915 --> 00:09:17.176 I was rushing around telling everybody, you've got to become a Christian. 158 00:09:17.896 --> 00:09:20.257 And I beat this talk where they said, you know, if you're going to, 159 00:09:22.001 --> 00:09:28.063 lead someone to faith in Jesus, the first thing you need to do is establish the fact they need Jesus. 160 00:09:28.303 --> 00:09:34.306 So when I saw her at this party, I thought, right, she needs to know she needs Jesus. 161 00:09:34.446 --> 00:09:34.786 Right. 162 00:09:35.106 --> 00:09:38.307 So that's why I went up to her and said, you look awful. 163 00:09:38.567 --> 00:09:40.308 I thought, you need Jesus. 164 00:09:41.229 --> 00:09:44.790 And I was surprised that she didn't immediately say, oh, I see. 165 00:09:45.230 --> 00:09:54.916 Out of curiosity, how long after you became a Christian did you meet Pippa and start sharing your faith that openly and that, like, publicly? 166 00:09:55.657 --> 00:09:57.418 Oh, it was probably, like, ten days. 167 00:09:57.438 --> 00:09:58.019 Really? 168 00:09:58.039 --> 00:09:58.799 Wow. 169 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:01.201 So, like, instant change. 170 00:10:01.221 --> 00:10:02.301 Well, no, but it wasn't just that. 171 00:10:02.321 --> 00:10:03.302 I was telling everybody. 172 00:10:03.362 --> 00:10:07.064 I mean, literally, I was just telling everybody, they all looked awful. 173 00:10:07.825 --> 00:10:11.868 I don't think I said they all looked awful, but I was kind of trying to... 174 00:10:12.728 --> 00:10:13.908 It seemed so obvious to me. 175 00:10:13.948 --> 00:10:19.350 Having experienced it, having been an atheist, argued for atheism, encountered Jesus. 176 00:10:19.410 --> 00:10:24.511 That was literally, as I read the New Testament, as if the person I was reading about emerged. 177 00:10:25.291 --> 00:10:30.053 And I encountered Jesus, not physically, but in my heart I encountered him. 178 00:10:30.873 --> 00:10:32.773 And it just seemed so obvious. 179 00:10:32.793 --> 00:10:34.294 I couldn't see why everyone didn't see it. 180 00:10:35.094 --> 00:10:38.935 So I was so insensitive in the way I went about it. 181 00:10:39.790 --> 00:10:47.152 And I don't know how many people I put off, probably many of them for life, or at least for many years. 182 00:10:47.652 --> 00:10:51.833 But thankfully, Pips did actually come to faith six months later. 183 00:10:51.913 --> 00:10:53.794 So that was good. 184 00:10:53.894 --> 00:10:54.794 But not through you. 185 00:10:54.954 --> 00:10:55.514 Not through me. 186 00:10:55.534 --> 00:10:56.895 No, it's definitely not through me. 187 00:10:57.755 --> 00:11:00.056 But I think it's good. 188 00:11:00.096 --> 00:11:06.399 Like you say, maybe my methods might not have been the most helpful, but I had that passion, you know? 189 00:11:06.419 --> 00:11:11.581 And I think people say all the time when you have the best news or the best good news, you want to share it. 190 00:11:11.961 --> 00:11:12.901 And that's really what it is. 191 00:11:12.941 --> 00:11:14.782 It's like you've encountered Jesus and it's great. 192 00:11:14.822 --> 00:11:19.224 And why would I keep this to myself when so many other people... 193 00:11:19.644 --> 00:11:20.565 need to hear about this. 194 00:11:20.745 --> 00:11:22.366 And then I think it's beautiful. 195 00:11:22.406 --> 00:11:28.271 I'd love to also hear about like the kind of early stages of your relationship and maybe like early years of marriage. 196 00:11:28.352 --> 00:11:34.597 Like how did your both individual walks with Jesus come together and like compliment each other? 197 00:11:34.637 --> 00:11:38.020 Or like, how did you guys navigate your faith together as a couple or, 198 00:11:38.529 --> 00:11:47.723 When you became a Christian and then you walked into church and you saw Nicky in the front row, were you like, oh, no, not this guy. 199 00:11:47.823 --> 00:11:50.186 He's going to tell me that I look awful again. 200 00:11:50.206 --> 00:11:52.810 Or was it like, did something switch? 201 00:11:54.432 --> 00:12:06.362 I mean, I became part of this community, The Kitchen, which actually, looking back, was a bit like a forerunner of Alpha because it was a community that met in an informal way. 202 00:12:06.422 --> 00:12:09.364 We had food and we talked about faith, which is actually what Alpha is. 203 00:12:09.825 --> 00:12:11.526 So I was sort of part of that. 204 00:12:12.046 --> 00:12:15.189 And that was, for a time, that was really our church. 205 00:12:15.249 --> 00:12:18.031 On Sundays, people were bringing guitars. 206 00:12:18.091 --> 00:12:19.773 We would have a sort of service there. 207 00:12:20.233 --> 00:12:29.441 And it was only really when Sandy Miller came as a curateer to Holy Trinity Brompton, he encouraged us to come and be part of the church. 208 00:12:29.501 --> 00:12:36.667 So and brought, and this church was quite, I was going to say boring, that's quite a rude thing to say about a church. 209 00:12:37.227 --> 00:12:44.292 There was very few young people and encouraging us all to come brought the life into the church. 210 00:12:44.833 --> 00:12:47.715 And they started an evening service and that began to come. 211 00:12:48.175 --> 00:12:49.656 But it was you coming down. 212 00:12:49.696 --> 00:12:55.521 And then I started working at the kitchen and my name was the first name in this book they had. 213 00:12:56.141 --> 00:13:00.325 And I think I was probably the first person convert at the kitchen. 214 00:13:00.726 --> 00:13:01.786 And Nicky came down. 215 00:13:01.927 --> 00:13:06.551 And of course, it's where all the young Christians were meeting really in London and came in. 216 00:13:06.671 --> 00:13:08.753 And you saw my name in the book, didn't you? 217 00:13:09.473 --> 00:13:13.957 And thought, I don't know what you thought, but anyway, you saw that my name was there. 218 00:13:14.298 --> 00:13:17.681 But I'd obviously ended up with Christians after all. 219 00:13:18.147 --> 00:13:22.308 I mean, we'd been friends beforehand, but we really became very close friends after that. 220 00:13:23.668 --> 00:13:26.909 And I was Pip's advisor about all her boyfriends. 221 00:13:27.089 --> 00:13:28.909 Come on. 222 00:13:29.269 --> 00:13:30.309 So you were in the friend zone. 223 00:13:30.810 --> 00:13:31.810 I was in the friend zone. 224 00:13:31.850 --> 00:13:32.430 It's a tough place. 225 00:13:32.450 --> 00:13:34.650 I was in the friend. 226 00:13:34.910 --> 00:13:39.211 Yeah, I used to go and do the washing up at the kitchen because it was a great community. 227 00:13:39.231 --> 00:13:42.772 It was a bit like, as Pip says, it was a bit like Alpha. 228 00:13:48.356 --> 00:13:48.579 And 229 00:13:49.982 --> 00:13:53.104 Non-judgmental, low-key, unpressurized. 230 00:13:53.444 --> 00:14:00.729 It's all the things, I guess, that we've tried to put into Alpha, what we experienced in those early days of friendships. 231 00:14:00.889 --> 00:14:06.393 And then it was a very natural thing for people to... Lots of people found faith in that place. 232 00:14:06.713 --> 00:14:07.294 That's special. 233 00:14:07.834 --> 00:14:12.297 And so that's kind of a little bit of a beginning on how you were brought to HDB. 234 00:14:12.837 --> 00:14:13.238 Yeah. 235 00:14:13.578 --> 00:14:17.961 Obviously, you were the vicar of HDB, of Holy Trinity Brompton. 236 00:14:18.001 --> 00:14:18.381 Eventually. 237 00:14:18.421 --> 00:14:18.842 Eventually. 238 00:14:18.862 --> 00:14:19.262 Eventually. 239 00:14:19.602 --> 00:14:21.643 Pippa, you were alongside that, helping out. 240 00:14:22.424 --> 00:14:24.545 How did that happen? 241 00:14:24.625 --> 00:14:29.268 Did you think that you two were going to be so involved in church when you started? 242 00:14:29.288 --> 00:14:30.388 That's an interesting thing. 243 00:14:30.448 --> 00:14:36.432 I think we had a passion to tell people about Jesus, both having lots of non-Christian friends. 244 00:14:37.692 --> 00:14:44.838 And I do remember thinking, how will my friends hear unless somebody tells them? 245 00:14:44.858 --> 00:14:48.640 And I remember going to a wedding of a friend who wasn't a Christian. 246 00:14:48.660 --> 00:14:52.663 And it was in a church, but it was the most boring service. 247 00:14:52.683 --> 00:14:54.805 There were about 300 people, young people there. 248 00:14:55.185 --> 00:14:56.666 And I thought, this is tragic. 249 00:14:56.686 --> 00:14:57.787 They're all in church. 250 00:14:58.187 --> 00:15:01.169 And it's the most dreadful service which will put them all off. 251 00:15:01.549 --> 00:15:02.470 And what a shame. 252 00:15:02.530 --> 00:15:03.791 What can we do about it? 253 00:15:03.811 --> 00:15:06.373 And, you know, how can you change that? 254 00:15:06.693 --> 00:15:11.977 And I suppose we got very involved here at HTB, where we're sitting above. 255 00:15:12.317 --> 00:15:13.778 We got involved from the start. 256 00:15:13.798 --> 00:15:15.179 We got involved in small groups. 257 00:15:15.219 --> 00:15:17.381 We got involved in everything that there was. 258 00:15:17.501 --> 00:15:18.541 Alpha wasn't going then. 259 00:15:19.042 --> 00:15:21.163 And so we were always involved with church. 260 00:15:21.203 --> 00:15:22.604 But Nicky was a lawyer then. 261 00:15:22.684 --> 00:15:28.348 He was doing his bar, which is his lawyer exams, barrister exams. 262 00:15:28.568 --> 00:15:29.869 And so he was sort of a student. 263 00:15:29.889 --> 00:15:34.593 So I don't know whether we thought – we always thought we'd be sort of do a lot for the church – 264 00:15:35.053 --> 00:15:36.254 But I don't know really. 265 00:15:36.274 --> 00:15:37.034 It sort of dawned on us. 266 00:15:37.054 --> 00:15:41.056 I don't know if we've done anything for the church, but we always thought we'd be involved in church. 267 00:15:41.076 --> 00:15:41.356 Yes. 268 00:15:42.116 --> 00:15:48.459 But by that stage, we were, hopefully, at least I thought we were going out or whatever you call it now. 269 00:15:48.959 --> 00:15:49.539 What do you call it? 270 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:49.900 Dating. 271 00:15:50.160 --> 00:15:51.060 Yeah, dating. 272 00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:53.381 Yeah, I thought we were dating by then. 273 00:15:54.502 --> 00:15:56.743 Pips didn't think we were dating, so I was... 274 00:15:57.443 --> 00:16:03.228 Well, we took a little bit longer to sort of, but I think probably there was no clarity in our relationship. 275 00:16:03.248 --> 00:16:10.015 Well, I thought it was perfectly clear that we were dating until this man turned up with 24 roses and took her off to the Sandhurst ball. 276 00:16:10.215 --> 00:16:12.357 While I stayed behind and cleaned her cupboards. 277 00:16:13.137 --> 00:16:14.238 You do slightly. 278 00:16:14.318 --> 00:16:17.139 I'm hoping you've talked about this story. 279 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.640 I'm hoping this isn't the first time you chat about it. 280 00:16:19.660 --> 00:16:23.322 It's slightly exaggerated, as you can probably imagine. 281 00:16:23.682 --> 00:16:28.365 But I think it was a gradual dawning, really, of our relationship. 282 00:16:28.803 --> 00:16:50.263 and we did eventually get married didn't we we did oh well it did seem like eventually but I was only 22 when we got married so it wasn't that old wow yeah that's directly in between me and you 23 and 21 that's crazy so yeah we got married here at HTB Sandy married us yes we borrowed a car went on I mean 283 00:16:50.503 --> 00:16:51.904 I think we were quite young. 284 00:16:51.964 --> 00:16:53.165 We were new to faith. 285 00:16:53.225 --> 00:16:54.306 Everything was exciting. 286 00:16:54.406 --> 00:16:55.908 Didn't think about anything. 287 00:16:56.008 --> 00:16:57.149 Didn't really think about anything. 288 00:16:57.229 --> 00:16:57.989 Nikki asked me around. 289 00:16:58.029 --> 00:16:59.471 I was, great, good idea. 290 00:16:59.491 --> 00:17:00.992 I only thought back on the night. 291 00:17:01.312 --> 00:17:02.353 I honestly had. 292 00:17:02.413 --> 00:17:03.054 I had no ring. 293 00:17:03.174 --> 00:17:03.674 I just said. 294 00:17:04.435 --> 00:17:06.757 And I thought she might say no anyway because... 295 00:17:07.337 --> 00:17:08.098 I was a bit nervous. 296 00:17:08.178 --> 00:17:09.760 Because she ran off with another man with roses. 297 00:17:09.780 --> 00:17:12.643 Because she might be going off with a man with a roses. 298 00:17:13.003 --> 00:17:18.329 So I said, I was a bit nervous being rejected. 299 00:17:18.409 --> 00:17:20.972 So I thought I'd start with a general question. 300 00:17:21.152 --> 00:17:23.474 I said, would you ever like to get married? 301 00:17:24.535 --> 00:17:26.017 Which I thought was a fairly safe question. 302 00:17:26.057 --> 00:17:26.677 She said, yes. 303 00:17:27.498 --> 00:17:29.480 I said, well, who would you most like to marry? 304 00:17:30.287 --> 00:17:31.328 She said Prince Charles. 305 00:17:31.948 --> 00:17:34.290 So it was a long time ago. 306 00:17:34.330 --> 00:17:36.692 I mean, obviously I would have. 307 00:17:36.972 --> 00:17:37.853 Think Prince William. 308 00:17:38.033 --> 00:17:38.554 Yeah. 309 00:17:38.614 --> 00:17:43.437 And also I just thought of the oddest person I could, not odd, I mean, he's our king. 310 00:17:43.578 --> 00:17:45.619 You might be listening to him, my darling. 311 00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:47.821 I really respect him. 312 00:17:48.061 --> 00:17:49.662 I'm sure the king listens to the way. 313 00:17:49.682 --> 00:17:50.763 Yeah, I'm sure. 314 00:17:50.783 --> 00:17:51.704 You came up with something random. 315 00:17:51.724 --> 00:17:52.304 You were like random. 316 00:17:52.344 --> 00:17:52.725 Random. 317 00:17:52.745 --> 00:17:53.025 Yeah. 318 00:17:53.085 --> 00:17:54.606 Just a random thought. 319 00:17:54.686 --> 00:17:54.826 Yeah. 320 00:17:54.846 --> 00:17:56.448 Because it was a silly question, wasn't it? 321 00:17:56.508 --> 00:17:56.728 I mean, 322 00:17:56.968 --> 00:18:00.370 If somebody said to you, who would you most like to marry, what would you say? 323 00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:01.470 What is the answer then? 324 00:18:01.730 --> 00:18:02.271 Prince Charming. 325 00:18:02.291 --> 00:18:03.631 Prince Charming, yeah. 326 00:18:03.691 --> 00:18:04.071 It is. 327 00:18:04.131 --> 00:18:05.032 It's Prince Charming. 328 00:18:05.052 --> 00:18:05.772 Yeah, it's good. 329 00:18:05.932 --> 00:18:08.233 Anyway, I said, well, would you marry me? 330 00:18:08.253 --> 00:18:09.614 And thankfully she said yes. 331 00:18:09.994 --> 00:18:10.194 Wow. 332 00:18:10.214 --> 00:18:11.115 But I didn't have a ring. 333 00:18:11.135 --> 00:18:12.996 So when we got back, we were actually in France. 334 00:18:13.016 --> 00:18:15.016 We were staying with her parents. 335 00:18:15.277 --> 00:18:19.879 And so when we got back to England, my mother... 336 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.541 said, oh, let me have a look in my jewellery box. 337 00:18:22.601 --> 00:18:23.782 And she looked through all these things. 338 00:18:24.062 --> 00:18:25.463 Oh, what about with this one too? 339 00:18:25.984 --> 00:18:27.025 I know that one's broken. 340 00:18:27.045 --> 00:18:28.226 That one's, that one. 341 00:18:28.446 --> 00:18:29.567 It really was like that. 342 00:18:29.587 --> 00:18:31.629 We eventually did find the engagement ring. 343 00:18:32.229 --> 00:18:35.372 And sadly, it broke at some point. 344 00:18:35.472 --> 00:18:36.793 And we took it in to the jewellers. 345 00:18:36.833 --> 00:18:40.917 And the jewellers said, sorry, I don't really think this one's worth mending. 346 00:18:40.937 --> 00:18:41.097 Yeah. 347 00:18:41.697 --> 00:19:06.319 really not even for the sentimental weekly no it wasn't really for the sentimental value probably better to get one from woolworth i mean we're hearing all the miracles following you both we've seen that is a miracle isn't it is a miracle we got married and we stayed married first you got out the friend zone that's a miracle in itself that's a tricky place to be in then you got into the marriage it's good 348 00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:09.000 You became a vicar of a big church. 349 00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:11.641 Well, a lot later became the vicar, yeah. 350 00:19:11.721 --> 00:19:12.441 How much later? 351 00:19:12.501 --> 00:19:14.841 Well, so I did almost 10 years law. 352 00:19:14.981 --> 00:19:15.701 Okay. 353 00:19:15.842 --> 00:19:16.822 And then I was ordained. 354 00:19:17.222 --> 00:19:18.682 Then I couldn't find a parish. 355 00:19:18.982 --> 00:19:20.142 Everyone's kind of turned us down. 356 00:19:20.162 --> 00:19:23.543 We went through nine parishes and thought about going back to being a barrister. 357 00:19:23.583 --> 00:19:27.263 But eventually Sandy offered us a curacy here. 358 00:19:27.944 --> 00:19:33.284 Normally in the Church of England, as you know, you do, well, you may or may not know, you normally do a curacy for three years. 359 00:19:33.985 --> 00:19:35.865 And if you're really bad, they make you do four years. 360 00:19:36.625 --> 00:19:38.866 I did 19 years as the curate. 361 00:19:39.206 --> 00:19:39.706 Wow. 362 00:19:39.826 --> 00:19:42.507 And then after that, I became the vicar for 17 years. 363 00:19:43.148 --> 00:19:44.968 And now we've gone back to doing Alpha full time. 364 00:19:45.088 --> 00:19:45.348 Wow. 365 00:19:45.669 --> 00:19:55.472 I'd actually love to maybe just ask a little bit on that because there might be some people watching the podcast or listening that are like young adulty, like decision making. 366 00:19:55.492 --> 00:19:56.993 What do I want to do with my life type vibe? 367 00:19:57.493 --> 00:20:25.204 and to be pursuing a legal career for so long and then to switch to curacy which was also a long curacy to then be a vicar like I guess for you both how do you kind of go with God's guidance when it comes to like discernment and like figuring out steps like what I guess what advice could you give to people kind of figuring out what do I do with my life or like where's God leading me or should I switch from this to that I don't know if you have any advice or wisdom on 368 00:20:26.825 --> 00:20:36.876 I think one of the things that Sandy Miller said to us, really, is where would you like to be in 10 years' time? 369 00:20:37.457 --> 00:20:45.606 If you got to the top of being a barrister, whatever, that you did really well in the law, is that where you'd want to be? 370 00:20:46.226 --> 00:20:47.087 And actually... 371 00:20:48.228 --> 00:20:49.629 We loved ministry. 372 00:20:49.830 --> 00:20:51.111 We loved being in the church. 373 00:20:51.131 --> 00:20:52.632 We loved doing all those things. 374 00:20:53.192 --> 00:20:56.855 And it made you sort of think, no, I don't think that is what we want to do. 375 00:20:57.515 --> 00:21:00.698 Even if that was successful, that isn't what we wanted to do. 376 00:21:00.758 --> 00:21:02.419 So it was sort of having that. 377 00:21:03.700 --> 00:21:13.049 that look at what life could look down the road and thinking, no, if that if that was the direction we were going on, I'm not sure that is what we wanted to do. 378 00:21:13.510 --> 00:21:16.032 And we we started pushing a door. 379 00:21:16.232 --> 00:21:19.095 You can only push a door and see what happens. 380 00:21:19.155 --> 00:21:20.176 And that's what we started to do. 381 00:21:20.476 --> 00:21:27.123 We went away for a weekend and we prayed about whether we should get ordained, Nikki should get ordained and 382 00:21:27.763 --> 00:21:32.606 We both, we were reading Nehemiah at the time about rebuilding the walls. 383 00:21:32.726 --> 00:21:34.046 I was just thinking about that. 384 00:21:34.286 --> 00:21:34.667 Really? 385 00:21:34.687 --> 00:21:34.927 Yeah. 386 00:21:34.947 --> 00:21:35.347 Why are you? 387 00:21:35.487 --> 00:21:35.747 Yeah. 388 00:21:36.027 --> 00:21:45.852 Because I was saying with you guys like helping out with the kitchens and that just being a part of church and you being burdened for like, like that youthful energy in the church. 389 00:21:45.892 --> 00:21:47.873 That's kind of like what happened to Nehemiah. 390 00:21:47.893 --> 00:21:53.756 Like it wasn't that God gave him something to do, but he felt like a burden to what he saw. 391 00:21:54.117 --> 00:21:56.698 And then he was like, how can I bring a solution to that? 392 00:21:57.038 --> 00:22:02.862 And that kind of sounds like what you guys have been doing with, I guess, your leadership in the church and then bringing it to Alpha as well. 393 00:22:03.062 --> 00:22:04.683 So that's what I was thinking about. 394 00:22:04.803 --> 00:22:07.705 Yeah, just to play a part in the rebuilding. 395 00:22:07.765 --> 00:22:09.946 Rebuilding of the wall wherever we could. 396 00:22:10.347 --> 00:22:12.308 Yeah, lots of people building, but we... 397 00:22:12.728 --> 00:22:14.370 We wanted to be part of that, didn't we? 398 00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:15.391 So did. 399 00:22:15.411 --> 00:22:17.512 I looked ahead at being a barrister. 400 00:22:17.673 --> 00:22:27.321 If I'd fulfilled all my dreams, I thought you'd become what would be now a KC, then you'd become a high court judge or whatever, even goes to court. 401 00:22:27.581 --> 00:22:28.742 I thought, would I like to do that? 402 00:22:28.802 --> 00:22:30.244 No, I really didn't want to do. 403 00:22:30.404 --> 00:22:34.768 It's often been said, if the ladder's leading against the wrong wall, 404 00:22:35.313 --> 00:22:36.374 There's no point in climbing it. 405 00:22:36.574 --> 00:22:38.035 Wow. 406 00:22:38.055 --> 00:22:44.520 So why spend all this effort in doing something that at the end of the day, even if you get to the top, you don't want to be there? 407 00:22:45.321 --> 00:22:48.904 Whereas I looked at ministry, and we never thought we'd be doing quite well. 408 00:22:49.024 --> 00:22:52.246 I mean, if we'd known we were doing well, I don't think we'd taken a second to decide. 409 00:22:52.747 --> 00:22:56.410 But we just thought, you know, I'd be in a church, we'd be ministering in a church. 410 00:22:57.210 --> 00:23:00.313 I thought of a small church somewhere, maybe anywhere in the country. 411 00:23:01.774 --> 00:23:02.374 But actually... 412 00:23:03.435 --> 00:23:11.297 enabling other people to experience, helping other people to experience what we'd experience, then that was what I did want to do for the rest of my life. 413 00:23:12.118 --> 00:23:18.059 And then there were the barracks, you know, the fact that we looked at nine parishes and were turned down or it didn't work out. 414 00:23:19.100 --> 00:23:24.621 So I was the only one left who'd been to Theologic College and then didn't have anywhere to go. 415 00:23:25.841 --> 00:23:27.502 But actually sometimes you're 416 00:23:28.732 --> 00:23:35.281 your greatest sort of failures, your greatest opposition, the greatest disappointments. 417 00:23:36.190 --> 00:23:40.772 can actually be the greatest direction because that was what brought us back here. 418 00:23:41.153 --> 00:23:45.995 And if we hadn't had those nine, they would never have given us a curacy here because there wasn't really one. 419 00:23:46.555 --> 00:23:48.697 But it was only because we had nowhere else to go. 420 00:23:48.717 --> 00:23:51.898 Eventually the bishop allowed us to come back here. 421 00:23:52.459 --> 00:23:55.420 And so we're so thankful for all those. 422 00:23:55.880 --> 00:24:00.643 Yeah, there were plenty of obstacles at that time, weren't there? 423 00:24:01.103 --> 00:24:01.443 Yeah. 424 00:24:01.563 --> 00:24:12.128 We tried to go, and Nicky tried to go to train the year before, and we had, because our friends and Sandy had all gone to Durham, we automatically thought, oh, that's where we should go. 425 00:24:12.368 --> 00:24:17.670 It's funny that I think, you know, had we really prayed about that or had we just thought they did it so we should do it? 426 00:24:17.710 --> 00:24:17.950 Right. 427 00:24:18.050 --> 00:24:22.772 And we tried to get in there, and they said, oh, you're on the waiting list, but you're bound to get in. 428 00:24:23.112 --> 00:24:26.014 It was only when we hit September they said, there's no place. 429 00:24:26.794 --> 00:24:28.795 So then for a whole year we were... 430 00:24:29.735 --> 00:24:30.776 Oh, have we got it wrong? 431 00:24:31.316 --> 00:24:33.718 You know, we've done all this. 432 00:24:33.838 --> 00:24:36.080 Nicky had told work that he wasn't going to do it anymore. 433 00:24:36.360 --> 00:24:40.203 We'd planned to go, told our friends, and now we've got nowhere to go and change. 434 00:24:40.223 --> 00:24:43.225 And then you sort of rethink, we've made a mistake. 435 00:24:43.766 --> 00:24:46.928 And you start sort of a real time of doubt. 436 00:24:47.488 --> 00:24:49.150 But then actually... 437 00:24:50.270 --> 00:24:57.154 somewhere down the line, we went and looked in Oxford at Wycliffe Hall and there was a place there and we just took it and... 438 00:24:57.594 --> 00:24:59.355 But that was the next year, we lost a year. 439 00:24:59.435 --> 00:25:00.156 We lost a year. 440 00:25:00.236 --> 00:25:03.118 But again, if we hadn't lost that year, we couldn't have come back here. 441 00:25:03.638 --> 00:25:07.920 So you look back and you say, in everything God works for the good for those who love it. 442 00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:09.481 It doesn't feel like that at the time. 443 00:25:10.382 --> 00:25:16.105 But even in the things that go wrong in your life, God uses those for his purposes. 444 00:25:16.865 --> 00:25:19.346 It is profound, the Christian journey. 445 00:25:19.946 --> 00:25:22.968 I've been a Christian for about seven years now. 446 00:25:23.548 --> 00:25:23.908 Okay. 447 00:25:24.008 --> 00:25:24.809 And looking back... 448 00:25:24.869 --> 00:25:30.771 I just thought you were brought up in a... Well, brought up as a Christian, like in a Christian household and around God. 449 00:25:31.812 --> 00:25:32.692 But in terms of like... 450 00:25:32.712 --> 00:25:33.613 I'd like to hear your story. 451 00:25:33.633 --> 00:25:35.093 Well, you'll hear it one day, I'm sure. 452 00:25:35.374 --> 00:25:38.375 But like in terms of being like passionate all in. 453 00:25:38.435 --> 00:25:38.735 Yeah. 454 00:25:38.775 --> 00:25:40.876 Like I was around church and loved God. 455 00:25:40.896 --> 00:25:42.477 And what caused you to get all in? 456 00:25:43.017 --> 00:25:45.699 I had a healing testimony. 457 00:25:46.139 --> 00:25:46.760 Oh, wow. 458 00:25:46.780 --> 00:25:51.824 So I had a leg problem, which required physiotherapy for many years. 459 00:25:52.044 --> 00:25:53.124 Okay. 460 00:25:53.265 --> 00:25:55.226 Was it concedential or was it an accident? 461 00:25:55.386 --> 00:25:57.828 It was because I used to walk my tiptoes. 462 00:25:58.268 --> 00:25:58.528 Okay. 463 00:25:58.548 --> 00:26:04.993 So my legs had grown in like a real tight way rather than in a loose, normal way, which was a shame. 464 00:26:05.253 --> 00:26:06.974 And it meant that I couldn't really run very well. 465 00:26:07.375 --> 00:26:08.556 My legs would cramp up. 466 00:26:09.256 --> 00:26:12.999 And I was around church a lot and got baptized when I was 11. 467 00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:14.921 So I decided I was fully in. 468 00:26:15.661 --> 00:26:19.324 But then like straight away was like, was that really me? 469 00:26:19.364 --> 00:26:21.086 I'm not sure I actually became a Christian. 470 00:26:21.106 --> 00:26:22.487 I think this was just my parents thing. 471 00:26:22.727 --> 00:26:23.548 Okay. 472 00:26:23.588 --> 00:26:29.192 And then 14, I went to a youth camp, classic, Christian youth camp that my parents dragged me along to. 473 00:26:29.212 --> 00:26:29.733 Yeah. 474 00:26:30.173 --> 00:26:36.138 And my friend Hudson Virgo, so Terry Virgo's grandson, said, can I pray for you? 475 00:26:36.879 --> 00:26:37.920 I know you've got a leg problem. 476 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:38.320 And I said, 477 00:26:39.732 --> 00:27:05.486 no like absolutely not as for none of the people it's not for me he asked again i said no i just want to get milkshake he asked again so okay like let's just go for it let's do it and so he he sat me down on a bench and he he put his hands on my legs and he prayed for me and i just felt this warmth wow rush through my legs oh um and then i i got up and i ran and it was the furthest i'd ran in a long time 478 00:27:05.646 --> 00:27:09.993 And I went back to physiotherapy and they were like, you don't really have to come back here anymore. 479 00:27:10.214 --> 00:27:11.516 How amazing. 480 00:27:12.177 --> 00:27:14.140 And it's funny, even looking back at that time, 481 00:27:15.933 --> 00:27:20.117 The things that God did with me at the start then carried fruit through my journey. 482 00:27:20.297 --> 00:27:22.720 So like I've prayed for people's legs and seen them healed. 483 00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:23.180 Wow. 484 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:23.400 Amazing. 485 00:27:23.420 --> 00:27:27.024 And I think I see that a little bit in your story as well. 486 00:27:27.104 --> 00:27:31.308 Your first response to faith, to Jesus, was I need to shout this from the mountains. 487 00:27:31.348 --> 00:27:32.549 I need to tell people about it. 488 00:27:32.729 --> 00:27:33.210 Yeah. 489 00:27:33.250 --> 00:27:38.535 There was something innately in you that was drawn to food around the table. 490 00:27:38.555 --> 00:27:39.736 Too much food. 491 00:27:39.776 --> 00:27:40.297 Maybe not. 492 00:27:41.788 --> 00:27:57.527 But I think it's so special how God loves some of the first things and how he takes the first things and continues to bring us back to them to the point where you kind of started this thing which is about food, which is about shattering Jesus from the mountaintops. 493 00:27:57.547 --> 00:27:58.869 But that was seven years ago. 494 00:27:59.734 --> 00:28:00.715 Yeah, seven years ago. 495 00:28:00.895 --> 00:28:02.536 So I was 14, 21 now. 496 00:28:03.076 --> 00:28:03.656 Oh, wow. 497 00:28:04.076 --> 00:28:07.858 And since then, I've just been full on fire for Jesus. 498 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:08.559 What about you? 499 00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:11.580 Was it, were you brought up in a Christian home? 500 00:28:11.661 --> 00:28:13.562 I was brought up in a Catholic household. 501 00:28:13.582 --> 00:28:19.265 And my mum is still a strong practicing Catholic to this day, which I love and grew up in church. 502 00:28:19.325 --> 00:28:20.245 She served in church. 503 00:28:20.285 --> 00:28:24.067 She used to teach the Holy Communion classes to like the seven and eight year olds. 504 00:28:24.147 --> 00:28:27.429 And I grew up in all of that, but I didn't really have like a personal experience. 505 00:28:27.889 --> 00:28:49.897 relationship no one used that language like personal relationship with jesus i didn't really see people reading their bible so like christianity was like a label more than just like a lived thing you know um but when i was about 17 years old i was in sixth form i went to a non-faith school and one of my friends invited me to church with her and i was a bit like why am i going to church with you 506 00:28:50.617 --> 00:28:54.540 Um, but she kept asking me and it was like the persistence of like he'd been asking me. 507 00:28:54.560 --> 00:28:56.062 I was like, okay, let me go and let me see. 508 00:28:56.082 --> 00:29:00.645 And I went and I like had a radical encounter with the Holy Spirit. 509 00:29:00.785 --> 00:29:02.687 I didn't know you could experience God. 510 00:29:02.867 --> 00:29:04.368 Like no one had ever told me that. 511 00:29:04.948 --> 00:29:07.250 No one had ever showed me that experience anyway. 512 00:29:07.731 --> 00:29:09.972 And I was like, oh, this is so interesting. 513 00:29:10.373 --> 00:29:11.273 Like, what is this? 514 00:29:11.293 --> 00:29:17.018 So then I just went back the next week and then I went back the next week and then I went back the next week and then I was just... 515 00:29:17.738 --> 00:29:36.755 in church yeah like just going back for god and then i started to read the bible and that just lit up in my life like there'd be weeks and weeks where i'd read scripture and just have so many encounters with jesus scripture would get so easily stuck in my head as well like i'd find it so easy to remember because i was so fascinated by it 516 00:29:37.255 --> 00:29:38.536 I just wanted to keep reading it. 517 00:29:38.876 --> 00:29:44.019 And then I would go back to sixth form and I'd tell my friends, I'd be like, they said this in church, like, what does that mean? 518 00:29:44.339 --> 00:29:50.643 And then we'd have like Bible studies that would like help me in my faith and like show me preachers and be like, oh, you should listen to this person, listen to that person. 519 00:29:50.663 --> 00:29:59.068 So it was all kind of like through people and through the relationships I had that I like found my way to Jesus. 520 00:29:59.368 --> 00:30:00.168 And that was in 2019. 521 00:30:00.229 --> 00:30:00.409 Yeah. 522 00:30:01.861 --> 00:30:03.844 So, again, that's quite only six years ago. 523 00:30:03.864 --> 00:30:04.024 Yeah. 524 00:30:04.806 --> 00:30:06.849 Well, you have to remember, Nicky, they're very young. 525 00:30:06.969 --> 00:30:07.310 Yeah. 526 00:30:08.131 --> 00:30:09.373 That's half their life. 527 00:30:09.513 --> 00:30:10.295 Literally. 528 00:30:10.335 --> 00:30:11.396 Literally as kids. 529 00:30:13.856 --> 00:30:17.019 I would love to hear a little bit about Alpha. 530 00:30:17.679 --> 00:30:18.380 Why you started? 531 00:30:18.520 --> 00:30:20.302 Well, did you start it? 532 00:30:20.422 --> 00:30:20.642 No. 533 00:30:20.682 --> 00:30:22.023 You took over leading it, didn't you? 534 00:30:22.363 --> 00:30:24.205 So Alpha actually started in 1977. 535 00:30:24.445 --> 00:30:25.006 Okay. 536 00:30:26.167 --> 00:30:30.750 We have been involved in it since then, but in a very, very small way. 537 00:30:31.271 --> 00:30:35.174 So in 1977, it was started by someone called Charles Marnum, his wife. 538 00:30:35.595 --> 00:30:39.418 They weren't even married then, but someone on the course. 539 00:30:40.151 --> 00:30:42.632 or someone who was, they decided to lead it together. 540 00:30:42.652 --> 00:30:45.654 She was called Tricia Algeo and later became his wife. 541 00:30:46.154 --> 00:30:49.456 And they started the course and she came up with the name Alpha. 542 00:30:49.836 --> 00:30:53.938 And then it was taken on by a guy called John Irvin, who has just died this week. 543 00:30:53.958 --> 00:30:55.979 His funeral has been this week. 544 00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:04.884 John Irvin took it on and he really was the founder of the modern Alpha course because he made it a 10-week course with a weekend. 545 00:31:05.604 --> 00:31:08.327 And a lot of the stories that are told are his stories. 546 00:31:09.508 --> 00:31:16.234 And people used to say to John, do you mind that other people are getting the credit for Alpha? 547 00:31:16.254 --> 00:31:18.196 And he said, no, no, no, I don't mind about that. 548 00:31:18.216 --> 00:31:23.221 The only thing I do mind is when people come up to me and say, you got that story from Nicky Gumbel. 549 00:31:23.581 --> 00:31:24.061 LAUGHTER 550 00:31:26.131 --> 00:31:27.953 So anyway, he was a great hero. 551 00:31:27.994 --> 00:31:28.434 He died. 552 00:31:28.494 --> 00:31:29.696 He's a wonderful, wonderful guy. 553 00:31:29.736 --> 00:31:31.077 And he ran it for about five years. 554 00:31:31.378 --> 00:31:34.561 He handed it on to Nicky and Silla Lee, who ran it for a few years. 555 00:31:35.082 --> 00:31:38.466 And then we took on the leadership in October 1990. 556 00:31:40.288 --> 00:31:47.294 So very recently, really only 35 years ago, we took on the leadership. 557 00:31:47.575 --> 00:31:51.258 And since then, we've been in a small group three times a year. 558 00:31:51.318 --> 00:31:55.321 We've done 105 small groups and we used to meet in the small groups. 559 00:31:55.562 --> 00:32:01.347 Our small group met in this room for about, yeah, probably about 30 of those years. 560 00:32:01.527 --> 00:32:02.367 We met in this room. 561 00:32:03.248 --> 00:32:09.653 We've had dozens of small groups sitting around here with these benches and chairs. 562 00:32:11.675 --> 00:32:14.037 And it's been an amazing experience. 563 00:32:14.717 --> 00:32:19.901 But it started with, it actually started with a guy in October 1990, this guy. 564 00:32:23.042 --> 00:32:24.523 who was not a Christian. 565 00:32:25.183 --> 00:32:31.627 He was about, probably about 25 years old, and he had a friend who was helping on the course. 566 00:32:31.727 --> 00:32:33.389 His friend was called Eric Castianskild. 567 00:32:33.409 --> 00:32:38.071 He was an amazing sportsman who had been at Cambridge. 568 00:32:38.872 --> 00:32:42.234 And this guy, Matthew, was also a very good sport. 569 00:32:42.274 --> 00:32:46.377 He rode twice for Cambridge, so he was a double blue oarsman. 570 00:32:47.137 --> 00:32:52.742 and he wasn't a Christian, and Eric said to him, come along to Alfa, because there's some very attractive young women on the course. 571 00:32:53.322 --> 00:32:54.983 And so he came to have a look. 572 00:32:55.043 --> 00:32:59.967 So he came to have a look, and in the spring there, that room, it's like an amphitheater, you can look around. 573 00:33:00.268 --> 00:33:02.830 So he said, well, I'll come for the talk, I'm not going to stay for the small groups. 574 00:33:03.730 --> 00:33:06.593 So during the coffee break, 575 00:33:07.371 --> 00:33:11.695 I introduced him to one of the young women on the course, and he changed his mind. 576 00:33:11.735 --> 00:33:13.997 He said he would stay for the small group after all. 577 00:33:14.538 --> 00:33:15.639 Busy. 578 00:33:15.719 --> 00:33:18.561 He stayed for the whole course. 579 00:33:18.601 --> 00:33:19.682 He encountered Jesus. 580 00:33:19.882 --> 00:33:21.224 He was filled with the Holy Spirit. 581 00:33:22.024 --> 00:33:26.088 And later on, he married Pippa's younger sister. 582 00:33:26.649 --> 00:33:29.231 So Matthew is now my brother-in-law. 583 00:33:29.551 --> 00:33:30.172 Wow. 584 00:33:30.772 --> 00:33:33.235 And on the next course, he brought his sister. 585 00:33:34.027 --> 00:33:35.147 and a number of his friends. 586 00:33:35.327 --> 00:33:49.412 They came to a carol service, and then in that room over there, we had our small group that time, it was before we were meeting here, and all of that group were people outside the church, and all of them encountered Jesus. 587 00:33:49.432 --> 00:33:51.413 They were filled with the Holy Spirit on the weekend away, 588 00:33:52.033 --> 00:33:58.856 And then we began to see that this course, which was originally designed for people who were already Christians, could be used for people outside the church. 589 00:33:59.456 --> 00:34:01.377 And from there, it just grew. 590 00:34:02.557 --> 00:34:03.958 And more and more people came. 591 00:34:04.258 --> 00:34:09.300 We moved from there to church house, then we couldn't get everyone in church house, we moved to the church. 592 00:34:09.580 --> 00:34:14.903 And then people were ringing me up, Catholic priests, Baptist ministers, how are you doing this? 593 00:34:15.663 --> 00:34:20.125 I just thought it was quite normal to have hundreds of people coming on a course like this. 594 00:34:21.226 --> 00:34:22.587 And then, but they were all asking. 595 00:34:22.928 --> 00:34:25.530 And I got fed up with answering all their questions. 596 00:34:25.550 --> 00:34:30.015 So I said, look, I'm going to get you all together in one place and I'll tell you all and I'll never have to do it again. 597 00:34:30.616 --> 00:34:31.557 So we got them all together. 598 00:34:31.617 --> 00:34:35.561 A thousand people turned up for a conference, first conference, May 1993. 599 00:34:36.102 --> 00:34:37.883 And I told them all, you know, this is what you do. 600 00:34:38.164 --> 00:34:38.804 And I thought, I've done it. 601 00:34:39.485 --> 00:34:41.367 No, I've answered all their questions. 602 00:34:41.807 --> 00:34:43.809 And then someone said, well, could you come and do it in Scotland? 603 00:34:44.330 --> 00:34:45.691 Could you come and do it in Birmingham? 604 00:34:45.891 --> 00:34:47.993 Could you come to Hong Kong? 605 00:34:48.714 --> 00:34:51.977 And then people said, you know, why don't you film the course? 606 00:34:52.797 --> 00:34:55.440 And so in 1994, we filmed the course. 607 00:34:56.121 --> 00:34:58.483 And then from there, it kind of went viral. 608 00:34:59.203 --> 00:35:03.367 And we've been sort of trying to catch up with what the Holy Spirit is doing since then. 609 00:35:03.908 --> 00:35:04.048 Mm-hmm. 610 00:35:05.048 --> 00:35:05.829 Wow. 611 00:35:05.889 --> 00:35:10.155 And it's truly had like worldwide impact, Alpha. 612 00:35:10.175 --> 00:35:19.026 And I'm hearing your story and at the time when it started or when you guys started and you took over, you couldn't have never imagined like what God would have done with it. 613 00:35:19.447 --> 00:35:22.110 But I'd love to hear maybe some stories about. 614 00:35:22.490 --> 00:35:49.121 like personal stories that like hit home for you of like the impact that alpha's had or maybe like a story from like a random country or random place or just yeah just any stories you have of like how it's impacted people i mean it is extraordinary because it's nothing it's sort of nothing we're doing at all and it you know we've just done a conference in sweden and then all these people come up and say to me you us you know we became a christian on alpha we've been running alpha for 615 00:35:51.862 --> 00:35:54.183 You know, and it is wonderful. 616 00:35:54.283 --> 00:35:57.584 It is wonderful, whether it's Sweden or whether it's Hong Kong. 617 00:35:57.964 --> 00:36:12.210 And we've had people over here at this moment from Eastern Europe, and they said that they've been running Alpha in Syria, in the Middle East, in all these really tricky places. 618 00:36:12.790 --> 00:36:13.190 Abu Dhabi. 619 00:36:14.783 --> 00:36:15.344 Dubai. 620 00:36:16.184 --> 00:36:17.786 And people are coming to faith. 621 00:36:18.326 --> 00:36:19.767 You know, it is. 622 00:36:20.508 --> 00:36:22.730 Lebanon, you know, all these things. 623 00:36:22.750 --> 00:36:25.192 Right across Africa, Latin America. 624 00:36:25.693 --> 00:36:27.935 I don't think there's a single country in the world. 625 00:36:28.826 --> 00:36:30.807 that is not running Alpha. 626 00:36:31.088 --> 00:36:40.294 We did this conference in India one time, and the place where we were staying, this guy came up and said, oh, you know, he recognised Pips, I think. 627 00:36:40.334 --> 00:36:42.676 He said, oh, we've been running Alpha. 628 00:36:43.677 --> 00:36:45.098 So he said, where have you been... 629 00:36:45.798 --> 00:37:04.348 running it and he said we've been running it in the pharaoh islands so i didn't know where the pharaoh islands were so i said where are the pharaoh islands they said well they're attached to denmark so i said oh did you do off scotland yeah and i've said well did you do it in danish and he said no we did it in pharaohese 630 00:37:05.275 --> 00:37:09.899 So I said, are the videos in Faroese? 631 00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:13.022 He said, yeah, yeah, they've all been translated into Faroese. 632 00:37:13.162 --> 00:37:14.223 I said, are you the only church? 633 00:37:14.243 --> 00:37:17.346 No, no, all the churches in the Faroe Islands are doing Alpha. 634 00:37:17.486 --> 00:37:17.686 Wow. 635 00:37:17.906 --> 00:37:24.212 So when I got back to England from India, I said, do we have any record of Alpha running in the Faroe Islands? 636 00:37:24.372 --> 00:37:24.592 No. 637 00:37:25.113 --> 00:37:29.757 Have we ever given permission for the videos to be dubbed into Faroese? 638 00:37:30.057 --> 00:37:30.317 No. 639 00:37:31.858 --> 00:37:36.079 But I just thought, you know, actually, I mean, we can care less. 640 00:37:36.260 --> 00:37:38.100 What we care about is the people are coming to faith. 641 00:37:38.660 --> 00:37:42.241 But I thought, actually, it must be running in every country in the world. 642 00:37:42.261 --> 00:37:47.083 Because even if we got no record of it, here's a country that we didn't know about and they're doing it. 643 00:37:47.103 --> 00:37:49.824 So I suspect it's running in every country. 644 00:37:50.384 --> 00:37:51.564 And more and more people are doing it. 645 00:37:51.584 --> 00:37:53.265 Now, 38 million people have done it. 646 00:37:53.545 --> 00:37:55.145 But the highest number was last year. 647 00:37:55.766 --> 00:37:57.706 Well, actually, the highest number is already this year. 648 00:37:57.746 --> 00:37:58.767 We haven't even finished the year. 649 00:37:58.867 --> 00:37:59.347 Oh, my gosh. 650 00:37:59.387 --> 00:37:59.907 So... 651 00:38:00.467 --> 00:38:04.470 Last year was 2.1 million and this year already 2.2 million have done it. 652 00:38:04.490 --> 00:38:06.111 So we're heading for 3 million this year. 653 00:38:06.671 --> 00:38:09.173 And it's kind of now on an exponential curve. 654 00:38:09.193 --> 00:38:11.975 I mean, you ask for stories. 655 00:38:12.015 --> 00:38:14.637 There are so many stories and we have so many friends. 656 00:38:14.657 --> 00:38:18.099 You know, sometimes I look back and I think, you know, this person is, oh, 657 00:38:18.412 --> 00:38:24.854 Oh, they all became, you know, I think they've been part of the church for each, but they all became Christians back in the day. 658 00:38:24.955 --> 00:38:33.858 And one of the stories that we think about quite a lot, the last group we did here before we handed the church over to Archie and Sam and... 659 00:38:34.178 --> 00:38:42.063 moved to Clapham, was that we had a group of people and there was a chap called Kay and he was from Hong Kong. 660 00:38:42.644 --> 00:38:50.089 And when you go around the first evening, you go around and ask in your group, once you've had the talk, you know, how'd you come to be here? 661 00:38:50.229 --> 00:38:56.033 And he said that his mum had died and he was suffering from real depression. 662 00:38:56.073 --> 00:38:58.775 He hadn't been out of the house for days and he was 663 00:38:59.235 --> 00:39:07.200 He was so suicidal that he went to the grave of his mum and he was saying to her, I'm going to come and join you. 664 00:39:07.300 --> 00:39:09.221 He wanted to take his own life. 665 00:39:10.762 --> 00:39:20.588 And as he was walking around this graveyard, he looked down, happened to see a blue Barclay card on the ground, which he bent down and picked up. 666 00:39:21.368 --> 00:39:23.429 And when he saw the name, he recognised it. 667 00:39:23.449 --> 00:39:24.490 It was Nana. 668 00:39:25.110 --> 00:39:28.972 And he had grown up in the same estate as Nana. 669 00:39:29.332 --> 00:39:36.996 Hadn't seen him since he was nine, but recognised the name and traced him on Facebook and contacted him. 670 00:39:37.256 --> 00:39:44.019 And he spoke to Nana and Nana said, I'm grieving too, but my faith in Jesus is making a difference. 671 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:45.780 Because Nana's brother had died. 672 00:39:46.080 --> 00:39:48.721 His brother was died and buried very close to Kay's mother. 673 00:39:49.181 --> 00:39:52.782 So he said, I'm going to book you into Alpha. 674 00:39:53.202 --> 00:39:54.782 And that's why Kay had come. 675 00:39:54.802 --> 00:39:56.403 I mean, he'd come not knowing. 676 00:39:56.423 --> 00:39:57.643 He'd never been in church before, had he? 677 00:39:57.763 --> 00:39:58.984 Never been in church before. 678 00:39:59.784 --> 00:40:04.565 And watching his journey over the weeks was amazing. 679 00:40:04.705 --> 00:40:07.446 And it was on week five, wasn't it? 680 00:40:07.466 --> 00:40:15.148 Was it week five when we asked, has anybody sort of seen any changes in their lives since they've been doing Alpha? 681 00:40:15.808 --> 00:40:30.355 And he said, I've stopped taking the herbs, which of course we looked a bit puzzled, not knowing what herbs were, but then we realised, talking about drugs, and someone else in our group said, oh, I stopped taking them a couple of years ago. 682 00:40:30.455 --> 00:40:34.417 And another guy said, what's wrong with the herbs? 683 00:40:34.677 --> 00:40:36.478 That's good. 684 00:40:36.518 --> 00:40:37.259 Was that you, Nicky? 685 00:40:37.279 --> 00:40:41.941 That's my secret habit. 686 00:40:44.763 --> 00:40:50.646 But anyway, he was completely changed during that time. 687 00:40:50.686 --> 00:40:53.788 And on the day on the Holy Spirit, he was filled with the Spirit. 688 00:40:54.128 --> 00:40:57.990 The depression went, his whole attitude to life went. 689 00:40:58.171 --> 00:41:03.414 And, you know, he's involved with the church, able to sort of go out and enjoy himself. 690 00:41:03.674 --> 00:41:07.076 Sure, he grieved his mum, but the whole thing changed. 691 00:41:07.496 --> 00:41:10.318 And, you know, when you see these lives... And then focus on the whole... 692 00:41:10.778 --> 00:41:12.639 On focus, he wanted to be baptized. 693 00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:17.503 So on our church holiday away, we baptized. 694 00:41:17.723 --> 00:41:22.666 We had to get a paddling pool because there wasn't a sort of river or anything like that. 695 00:41:22.746 --> 00:41:25.368 Quite a small paddling pool for quite big people. 696 00:41:25.608 --> 00:41:27.490 And three of our group wanted to be baptized. 697 00:41:27.570 --> 00:41:31.432 And Nana, who's quite a big guy, came to help baptize his friend. 698 00:41:32.173 --> 00:41:34.895 I don't think there was much water left in the paddling pool by the time. 699 00:41:35.255 --> 00:41:37.558 Nana had finished and Kay had finished in the pool. 700 00:41:37.858 --> 00:41:40.441 But anyway, we managed to baptise them there. 701 00:41:40.661 --> 00:41:43.724 And the transformation in their lives. 702 00:41:43.864 --> 00:41:44.405 And the guy? 703 00:41:45.046 --> 00:41:48.009 Even the guy who'd said, what's wrong with the herbs? 704 00:41:48.389 --> 00:41:51.152 And said, could he get baptised too? 705 00:41:51.172 --> 00:41:53.535 Because he could see in their faces. 706 00:41:53.615 --> 00:41:56.658 I had to do a second baptism service for the what's wrong with the herbs, Matt. 707 00:41:56.678 --> 00:41:56.979 I know. 708 00:41:57.539 --> 00:42:15.020 actually he was transformed too you could see it in their faces and so that's why we love doing it because you see yeah such change in people's lives yeah it's so special the final question because we're a little limited on time this has been amazing yeah oh no it's amazing for us 709 00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:19.462 I love hearing, because I didn't know all of the story. 710 00:42:19.722 --> 00:42:23.363 I just loved hearing the beginning and the first loves. 711 00:42:23.883 --> 00:42:30.465 Through life, it can get really complicated and things can get in the way and it can get really hard. 712 00:42:30.786 --> 00:42:36.428 And people often struggle to keep the kind of hunger and fire burning in their faith. 713 00:42:36.948 --> 00:42:39.629 You said when you first arrived at HTB, it was... 714 00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:58.590 boring which is not maybe not the best word for it but but just maybe a little more tame and so they had to bring the young zeal the young fire yeah um but even in chatting to you you can feel that you guys have still got a fire going yeah and you guys are really passionate about god and and as a young man i i'm 715 00:42:59.231 --> 00:43:06.917 I want to learn what it is to walk with God for decades, to be in ministry and not be tired or drained. 716 00:43:07.817 --> 00:43:12.721 What has helped keep you burning over your decades of ministry? 717 00:43:12.861 --> 00:43:13.461 Very close. 718 00:43:14.362 --> 00:43:17.303 We're feeding off the warmth of you guys. 719 00:43:17.323 --> 00:43:20.905 But actually, you know, it's sad when people think. 720 00:43:21.005 --> 00:43:27.187 It's like, so we described our wedding, you know, getting married here, borrowing a car. 721 00:43:27.747 --> 00:43:29.168 Actually, the car did get... 722 00:43:29.618 --> 00:43:31.259 I think I drove it into something. 723 00:43:31.499 --> 00:43:34.421 I couldn't even drive to that stage. 724 00:43:35.702 --> 00:43:37.963 I drove and I smashed it and I borrowed it. 725 00:43:39.224 --> 00:43:42.966 And we had banana sandwiches for our reception. 726 00:43:43.846 --> 00:43:47.408 But it was, you know, and I hadn't thought about it. 727 00:43:47.428 --> 00:43:49.630 You know, nothing went really. 728 00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:54.713 The investment in the wedding and the honeymoon was relatively small. 729 00:43:55.573 --> 00:43:59.456 But 48 years later, I'm more in love than ever. 730 00:43:59.496 --> 00:44:01.978 And I think that's how relationships should be. 731 00:44:02.698 --> 00:44:05.660 So we've been following Jesus for over 50 years. 732 00:44:05.921 --> 00:44:08.462 We're more in love with Jesus now than we were. 733 00:44:08.482 --> 00:44:09.903 And that's how relationships should be. 734 00:44:10.104 --> 00:44:18.029 This idea that is so sad when you hear people sort of joking about marriage as if the honeymoon is the high point and then it's sort of downhill all the way. 735 00:44:18.390 --> 00:44:21.432 That's absolutely the reverse of how it should be. 736 00:44:21.932 --> 00:44:23.853 And it's the same with your relationship with Jesus. 737 00:44:24.013 --> 00:44:27.475 Yes, it was exciting to begin with, but it's much more exciting now. 738 00:44:27.755 --> 00:44:33.538 And of course you hit difficult, you know, there is sickness, sadness, bereavement. 739 00:44:33.858 --> 00:44:35.119 These things happen in life. 740 00:44:35.139 --> 00:44:35.939 Disappointments. 741 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:36.539 They do. 742 00:44:36.579 --> 00:44:39.040 They happen to everybody, however good it is. 743 00:44:39.541 --> 00:44:41.902 And I think you need one another in that time. 744 00:44:42.022 --> 00:44:43.663 You know, we've got really good friends. 745 00:44:43.703 --> 00:44:50.286 We meet on Zoom every Monday and pray with the same Sandy Miller, who was our vicar before we pray. 746 00:44:50.446 --> 00:44:53.767 Pray with our really good friends. 747 00:44:53.987 --> 00:44:57.727 Jeremy and Millie have been praying for this church for 60 years. 748 00:44:57.847 --> 00:44:59.668 Trish and I, who was the ran alpha. 749 00:45:00.468 --> 00:45:02.908 And they pray for us and we pray for them. 750 00:45:03.288 --> 00:45:06.569 And we know they've got our backs and always have had our backs. 751 00:45:07.069 --> 00:45:12.790 And that makes a phenomenal difference because out there it's tough in the world or it can be really tough. 752 00:45:13.230 --> 00:45:18.711 And I think if you get isolated, you can get, you know, it talks about the enemy prowls around like a roaring run. 753 00:45:19.071 --> 00:45:20.633 You don't want to get out of the flock. 754 00:45:20.753 --> 00:45:28.323 You need to stay in community with one another so that we can support each other through hard times and there will be hard times. 755 00:45:28.403 --> 00:45:32.508 And we weep with those who weep and we rejoice with those who rejoice. 756 00:45:33.379 --> 00:45:36.860 So yeah, we're the newlyweds in that small group. 757 00:45:37.520 --> 00:45:39.041 We've only been married 48 years. 758 00:45:39.081 --> 00:45:41.341 Most of them are well over 50 years married. 759 00:45:41.381 --> 00:45:41.641 Only. 760 00:45:41.701 --> 00:45:43.282 It's crazy. 761 00:45:44.462 --> 00:45:52.164 Yeah, so we are, and we're supposed to pray for an hour, but we laugh for 57 minutes and we pray for three. 762 00:45:53.384 --> 00:45:58.886 But it's always come away just, and we know that if there's anything that, 763 00:45:59.768 --> 00:46:02.390 And there have been times when things have been really hard. 764 00:46:02.950 --> 00:46:05.792 And that's one place where we can always talk openly. 765 00:46:05.932 --> 00:46:08.193 We know that it's totally confidential. 766 00:46:08.674 --> 00:46:10.155 We know we can trust those people. 767 00:46:10.635 --> 00:46:11.215 And that makes sense. 768 00:46:11.375 --> 00:46:14.798 I think it's your own individual walk, which is communication. 769 00:46:15.518 --> 00:46:20.985 Everything depends, marriage depends on communication and your relationship with Jesus depends on communication. 770 00:46:21.586 --> 00:46:25.231 And that's, for me, it's starting every day reading the Bible. 771 00:46:25.811 --> 00:46:29.336 It's doing a prayer walk around Hyde Park, however bad I am at praying. 772 00:46:30.097 --> 00:46:31.399 It's giving the time to do it. 773 00:46:31.859 --> 00:46:33.960 So it's your own individual relationship. 774 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:35.040 And then it's community. 775 00:46:35.160 --> 00:46:37.101 It's the church. 776 00:46:37.261 --> 00:46:42.704 And those are the things that it's people that it's being in an environment like this. 777 00:46:43.244 --> 00:46:47.346 As Pip says, you know, we're inspired by the last 45 minutes, aren't we? 778 00:46:47.386 --> 00:46:47.606 Yeah. 779 00:46:48.366 --> 00:46:49.127 It's you guys. 780 00:46:49.227 --> 00:46:49.487 Yeah. 781 00:46:49.627 --> 00:46:50.407 You feed off the world. 782 00:46:50.427 --> 00:46:54.370 We're so blessed because we see, you know, the next generation, you guys. 783 00:46:54.730 --> 00:47:01.934 And we are so encouraged because we see your passion for Jesus and getting the good news out there. 784 00:47:02.014 --> 00:47:04.716 And we are just here to cheer you all on. 785 00:47:04.796 --> 00:47:11.500 So you keep doing what you're doing and we'll be cheering you on, saying, well done, good and faithful servants. 786 00:47:11.540 --> 00:47:17.223 You're doing a wonderful job and we're here to pray for you, support you and encourage you all the way. 787 00:47:17.740 --> 00:47:41.171 that was so kind well guys thank you so much yeah thanks for thanks for being good and faithful servants that we can learn how to but guys thank you for watching yeah thanks for listening um i encourage you to check out the alpha course um they're awesome it's all free you can connect in through the website um and it's really helpful and seen lots of fruit already and can see way more to come um 788 00:47:42.091 --> 00:47:44.635 But yeah, thanks guys for being on the... Oh no, it's an absolute pleasure. 789 00:47:44.655 --> 00:47:49.624 Thank you for having the old Crocs on the... Hey, Crocs are impression. 790 00:47:49.664 --> 00:47:52.909 Yeah, come on. 791 00:47:53.129 --> 00:47:54.431 And we'll see you next time.