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Let's face it, you're going to have to have hard conversations sometimes and understanding the

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difference between an insult and criticism and how to unpack the conversation between where

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someone's at and where you need them to be so that you can decrease the likelihood that you have

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to talk to them again is the core element of management. This is one of the rare things I talk

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about in terms of management, but I think that you will enjoy it. How do you get people to do stuff?

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All right, now that's obviously really wide, but I want to talk about this within the context

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of employees and team and of course these are when everyone's eyes roll over but at the same time

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they forget that this is actually how you make lots and lots of money and build an asset that's

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valuable and solvable and have people who are smarter than you actually running the business.

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And so I want to talk to you about a concept that changed my life and I'll give you two or three

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tactical things that have helped me. So the first one that changed my life, Dr. Cashy was

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when he introduced me to this. He said do you know the difference between an insult and criticism?

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And I was like no please explain it to me. He said the problem is that everybody in your organization

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thinks that you're insulting them when you give them feedback and I was like oh that sucks.

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He said yes it does suck because then there must much less likely to do what you want them to do.

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I was like okay. He said so the difference between an insult and criticism is that an insult

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attacks a person. A criticism basically attacks at a scrappancy or points out a

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scrappancy between desired and actual. And literally that definition changed how I approached a lot

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of the conversations and I even explained that difference to someone before I give them criticism.

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I say listen a criticism would say you suck. Sorry an insult would be you suck. A criticism would

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say hey you were supposed to show up on time five days this week and you showed up on time three

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days this week. So there's a scrappancy between what we want and what actually happened. So me stating

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that as a statement of fact it's an observation there's no judgment attached to it. Now people then

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take that criticism and assume that you think that they suck and a big portion of that is because

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that's how we are brought up. If someone said to the scrappancy anything that's not 100 on a test

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means that you suck and a lot of the education system reinforces that point is that if there's a

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scrappancy then you're a bad person. But within the professional environment you have to be able to say

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this is what happened. This is what we wanted. There's a difference in these two things. How do we

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come up with a strategy to bridge the gap? Now I think framing these things is opportunities for

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improvement. I mean as tried as it sounds still sounds way better. It's saying hey I think there's

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some opportunities for improvement here and let's see if we can improve them for you. And so one of the

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things that I say is my big telltale sign that I need to have one of these conversations is that

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I earlier on in my career was a big shit talker. It's actually something that I don't enjoy

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about myself. I was like this guy sucks and here's why, right? And the thing is is that the

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here's why is the criticism, the sucks, the judgment. And so I realized that the biggest hack I've

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had is when I had the desire to vent about someone's poor performance rather than talking about it

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behind their back. If I just said it to their face first I would have social permission to be able

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to say it later because then I'd say hey John's been really blowing at this. I'm like don't worry

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I've already talked to John about it. That way it's not some big secret like oh Alex is saying

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something and he's not telling no no I told John first. And so the idea is that you can absolutely

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talk shit about somebody just talk it to their face first so they have the opportunity to

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improvement. Now here's where it gets important is that when you do talk shit to John's face,

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John actually has the opportunity to to defend himself and give the reasons why and say hey

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now whenever you ask and this is another thing that I've learned why did this happen people will

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always give you a reason whether the reasons valid or not is kind of irrelevant because what you

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basically does you prompt them to just come up with something to give a narrative to further

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reason for the discrepancy which for me is a business owner not that important what I do care

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about and this is again being clear and this is something that I've learned in giving feedback

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is saying I actually have no judgment on whether it's bad or good or anything. I want to increase

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the likelihood that this happens more in the future or I just want to decrease the likelihood

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that this occurs again. And so then the follow up question I have that is what would it take?

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And so what would it take to get you to shop on time five days a week compared to the three

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that you continue to do? What would it take to get you to stop jumping in and interrupting people

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when they're talking? What would it take? So we have the discrepancy between what I want or what the

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desired behavior is and what your current behavior is and so all I want to do is come up with a strategy

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that we can agree on together that we can execute and that you can buy into. So what would you do if

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you or me who are having this conversation with you? What would you give yourself as instructions

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here to decrease the likelihood that this occurs again or increase it if it's a good thing?

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And usually the person comes up like the strategies for figuring out how to solve these problems

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like human problems are old and the older the problem the older the solution. Not most of the

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times with behavior stuff you don't need to reinvent the wheel here you seem to get them to be bought

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in to whatever the problem is. And so a different frame for this if you're having these conversations

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I want to give you a handful of frameworks that's been helpful for me is understanding why someone

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didn't do something. Now getting into their whole past reinforcement history we don't have time

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for that. But I finally get into I figure that you didn't do this because you didn't know that I

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wanted you to do it or you didn't know how to do it right. So both of those things one is a lack

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of communication the other's a lack of training so lack of communication might be on me and if they say

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well I didn't know that you wanted me to do it I'd be like so when I emailed you this and I said this

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what part of that did you not understand? Now this is where you can create the discrepancy it's like

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okay I sent you this email you didn't do this thing what would it take for when I sent you these

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emails in the future for to make sure that it happens? Well I didn't it didn't get put into a sauna

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it's like okay well do you think we can just create a safe here that ties emails from me to a sauna

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because guess what that's true and that happens or that you can assume that whenever I slack you

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that you can immediately put into a sauna and if you want I will also do my part remind you

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to put that in a sauna or I could just put it to a sauna directly. So if instead of emails you just

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want me to put it there would that be easier for you? Yes great well it takes me the same amount of time

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and so little conversations like that but the vast majority of time people are too chicken shit

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to actually say hey John you're doing this this is what we wanted why is there a discrepancy

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between these two things and giving them the language or the excuse of did you not know that I wanted

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you to do it or did you not know how to do it and by just pointing at those two things you have one

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which is communication the other is training and so those things are now solvable and becomes a

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productive discussion this is an opportunity for improvement because if you want to move up in this

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company which I'm assuming you do I want to help you do that and so again as the manager are goal

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and I see manager in a loose term term here if you have anybody who rules into you the goal is

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how do I increase the likelihood that they can get what they want through the organization that I

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have and if we can ask that question then we can frame the solution for the problem that we're

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trying to solve with the solution that they want with their career. Hey guys real quick you'll

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notice that I'd never have any paid sponsors on my podcast and so here's my ask in exchange for

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never having paid sponsors on my podcast if you could share this with your employees or your

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managers so that they can have more effective conversations I think that the aggregate effect of us

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helping thousands of managers help hundreds of thousands of employees have better work will make

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more entrepreneurs more money and have people enjoy their jobs more so share this with the world

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and if you're feeling extra generous leave a review would mean a lot. Let me tell you a quick

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example of this and so I had somebody you know years ago who was struggling with an ego problem

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all right so basically they would you know basically they got a promotion and then all of a sudden

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they thought that they were you know king of the world and I had to have a meeting with them and

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we called these papatox and I said hey John you're being a dick so that's an insult and I started

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with that because then it would be jarring because he had multiple conversations before this and he

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wasn't being receptive and so I said hey everyone thinks you're a dick and I was like but here's

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the thing is is that before the promotion no one thought you were a dick which is why you got

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the promotion and so the promotion is now in jeopardy because of your new dick behavior and so

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how do we go back so what would it take for you to return to your previously behavior I said would

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a demotion be more acceptable for you to return to that behavior is like why don't I don't really

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want that I mean I guess I guess that could happen I'd be like okay so what changed what would

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happen after this promotion that changed your behavior and the words that he said was I thought

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that we were all equal he said I thought that we were all equal here now because I you know I got

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this promotion I just thought I was on the same you know playing field as everyone else I said oh no

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oh no and this is a biblical one but I'll I'll share it with you which is and I'm loosely

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paraphrasing if you want to be humbled exalt yourself if you want to be exalted sorry if you

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want to be humbled exalt yourself Jesus I'm messing it up basically he who is he who exalts

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himself will get humbled he who humbles himself will be exalted and so if you want everybody to

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exalt you and and speak up about you which is what happened prior to this promotion the reason

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that you got it was because you were so humble and you were so hard working and you just did your

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job day in and day out whereas as soon as you became a dick you started talking about how great you

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are and everyone now wants to cut you down because they want to bring you down to where you were before

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and so I want you to be exalted I want everyone in the company to be singing your praises the

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individual had a nickname that we used to say about the guy before he had the promotion and then

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after he had the promotion no one said it anymore I said have you noticed that no one calls you that

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cool nickname that we had and he was like yeah I guess I just call myself that now and I was like

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right isn't that kind of lame he was like yeah I didn't really think about it like that I was

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like right so wouldn't you prefer it for everyone else to say how awesome you are it was like yeah I

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definitely prefer that I feel cool that let's just look at the behaviors one is you're trying to

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tell people how to do their job as like before this you didn't do that why do you think you somehow

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know how to do other people's job that you've never done before better than them he's like well I

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didn't I think I was just gonna get in full myself and I was like okay I was like so why don't we

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just cease all talking about how someone else needs to do their job I was like let's do that a

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step one he's like okay I can do that I was like step two because this is what somebody had deliverables

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it was an internal rule deliverables to other departments I said one of the other things you do is

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that you try and get people to say now that the work you did was exceptional when they don't agree

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and you basically try and strong on them and to saying it was good or good enough for what they

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needed for their department so think about this as an IT role hypothetically hey I did this work I

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did this integration does that work now most people would be like it doesn't work yet it's not

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working the way we needed to and it's like yet does it does exactly what you said it does you can see

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how aggressive and annoying that would be especially when you're like no I mean it doesn't and so I

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said number two is that I want you to see everyone in the organization is your customers you're

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now business owner you're an entrepreneurial interested person which is why you got to talk to my

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stuff to begin with I was like I want you to think about every single person as a customer of yours

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and so this is a great practice for you so this is framing it in terms of the thing that they

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ultimately want so if you want to have customers they're always going to be right now people have

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lots of debate on is the customer or is right I think for the best majority of the time the answer is

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yes is that you have to take all the blame and so you say you know what I was like I promise you

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he said but I have deadlines that I have to meet for me as a person that I have all these things

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that everyone knows that I have to get done and if I don't get them done on time because they have

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to accept them then I'm going to be late I said John don't worry about it because this is what's

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going to happen I was like let's play it out let's say you deliver you know the the project to

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Connie right and you say hey Connie this is good enough and she says no it's not good enough what I

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want you to say there is you're right what would it take to make it perfect for you and then I want

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you to go back and do it and keep presenting until eventually Connie accepts it now if it takes

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a long time and you miss your deadline what am I going to do as the overarching manager I'm going to

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say hey John like what's taken so long in this project you're going to say Connie hasn't been

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able to accept my third or fourth revision on this then I'm going to go to Connie and say hey Connie

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show me the stuff that John did and then she's going to show me what you did and I'm going to be like

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Connie I think you're being unrealistic here now guess who's it who's in quote trouble there get

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guess who now has the problem that has to get solved not you it's Connie because I'm going to put

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pressure on Connie because that deliverable is part of her larger deliverables because I need

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her to get something done too right of course and so it's it's you're thinking one step ahead rather

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than two or three steps ahead and so I'd encourage you because a lot of times this is the real stuff

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like this is how it comes up right where people are like well I don't want to get blamed because

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everyone's so afraid of blame everyone's a big thing everyone's afraid of blame you say I'm not

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blaming anyone I want I want this organization to work and so playing it out one or two steps

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and saying no no the outcome that you think is going to happen isn't what actually happens this is

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what would happen and so this is what you doing your job perfectly looks like it means you delivering

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like everybody's a customer and taking 100% of their feedback now if everybody starts piling too

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much work on you that I either have to hire more people to support you which is on me to do or I have

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to edit their behavior and say hey I need you to take 80% work and run with it the other 20 so that

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John can get his job done because he has to serve other people in the organization besides you

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but that's a conversation I have with them not you and now guess what what do you think happens

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it quarterly everyone's like dude John's a fucking machine John just crushes work he helps everyone

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out in the organization he never asked for credit and then they're going to exalt you and so

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fundamentally I want everyone in the our companies to be exalted by everyone else rather than trying

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to exalt themselves trying to do this political BS of positioning and credit taking and blame giving

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I hate that shit and I don't want it in my organization and so if you don't want in your

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organization you have to punish that behavior and reward the behavior that is the right behavior

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which is I want you to just crush your job I want you to do it exceptionally well and if you

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keep doing it then we will expand the scope of your responsibilities because I want more like you

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and so whenever you give promotions you basically vote literally with your dollars about what you

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want to proliferate and what you multiply in your organization if you promote someone who has poor

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behavior not only will that person bring more people who behave that way but you also signal to

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everyone else this is what I want and so when you make these corrective actions and I'm very like

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we try it since here canors one of the we only have three values that I was just not calm since

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here canter is one of them and we do that because I want to be able to say hey guys I corrected

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so-and-so's behavior that you guys said John was acting like a dick and so I wanted to address John

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and John do you think we addressed it and John's like I think we addressed it guys I'm sorry I'm

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also going to circle back with it each of you guys individually and re get the the stuff that

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you need for you know the IT job or the project that I'm working on with you and I'm going to be

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operating from this way going forward and I'm asking you guys to hold me accountable to that and

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that way we have two sided accountability and I know everyone knows the rules of the game so

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there's not this secrecy and by doing it that way everybody else learns again what is rewarded

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and what isn't rewarded so they know no actually that period of time when John was being a dick

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wasn't a problem at all or it was a problem it wasn't being encouraged because this is actually

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how we would do things they're not acting not in accordance with their values they just had it

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gotten to it yet and now they have gotten to it and they've worked on it and so it's going to

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improve and so big picture number one understanding the difference between insults and criticism

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insult is an attack on a person criticism of discrepancy between desired and actual second is

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what are the questions that we used to unpack that which is one hey this is an area of opportunity

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for improvement to what would it take and why weren't you able to do this and underneath of

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why wouldn't you able to do this is it because you didn't know that I wanted you to do it or is

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that you didn't know how to do it which is a skilled efficiency and I can help train you on that

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and so when you use this little Christmas tree it's worked very well for me for hiring these

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quote hard conversations and I would highly highly encourage you to just be honest and not sugarcoat

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because the vast majority of time when I look at calls where someone tries to get feedback to

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they tiptoe around it they beat around the bush and the other person has to try it like if you

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want someone to read between the lines you're gonna have people reading blank space because there's

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nothing between lines right you want to tell them the exact words because even if you're perfect

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in your explanation they already have so much noise in their head because they're so afraid of

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getting blamed for stuff that you can by giving them the clear directives of this is exactly what I

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want to do and this is an example when you didn't do it is you want to talk about the behaviors

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fuck emotions fuck intentions fuck blame just talk about this is what you're currently doing

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this is what I want you to do and what would it take for this to happen and this has simplified

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all of this is like dude I don't blame I don't care I don't I don't care why I don't care about

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your motivation behind it because you're gonna make up a narrative about why you didn't do or why

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you did do it like if I wanted an excuse I could ask a hundred people for an excuse and they could

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just give me your random excuses what I want is to decrease the likelihood that this conversation

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occurs again and I think being very clear about it from that perspective will decrease the

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likelihood that you have those conversations and get the right people to reward the right behaviors

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TLDR instead of talking shit behind someone's back talk it to their face and focus purely on their

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behaviors not on the blame or their intention or their motivation or their reason why or their

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excuses just say this is where you're at this is where you need to be there's a gap between these

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two things how do we increase the likelihood that we close this gap