WEBVTT

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the only thing we can control is our behavior.

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And so if we define the words in terms of what we do about it,

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then these all become things that we can control

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and can change our lives with.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers,

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how to make more per customer and how to keep them longer

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and the many failures and lessons we have learned

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along the way.

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I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

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You are ridiculously good at writing instruction manuals

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for how to make money.

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Literally you are singular in that way.

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But if people think poorly or they do dumb things,

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they are never going to make progress.

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So what advice do you have for people

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that are wasting time on things like porn,

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social media, or even just a friend group

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that is going nowhere fast?

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If you, it's my belief, that if you can control

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every one of the variables externally to an organism,

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you can control its behavior.

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So one of my favorite quotes from BF Skinner,

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who is a behavior psychologist from way back in the day,

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was the old saying is, you can lead a horse to water

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but you can't make it drink.

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He said, well, if you bleed it out enough

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and you starve it and you leave it in the sun

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and you put the water right in front of its mouth,

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he said, I can veridably guarantee that I can make it drink.

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And so if you were to think about yourself as that horse,

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then it's like, okay, well, what is the equivalent

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of the bloodletting, the dehydration, the starving,

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that you can put yourself into, get the behavior you want?

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So starving has a negative connotation,

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but we can also starve out the negative things in your life.

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Like you can starve the alcohol, you can starve the porn,

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you can starve the friends.

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And I think the easiest way to do that

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is to get out of the environment you're in.

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Because like, I'm sure you heard about the,

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I think this was an atomic habits.

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In Vietnam, I think it was like 10% of troops

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or something were taking heroin when they were over there

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in the 70s and they thought there was going to be this massive

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problem when they came back to the States.

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But when they came back to the States,

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almost no one continued the heroin habit.

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And so going from Vietnam where you're doing heroin

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to the US where you're not taking heroin,

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had a 90% success rate,

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whereas the inverse is true of recovery centers

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in the United States today.

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People go there and 90% of them relapse

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when they go back home.

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And so the difference is that people were doing heroin

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in a different environment and then they changed their environment

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and then they never went back to the environment

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that they did heroin it.

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And so it's like if you have these behaviors

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that have cues from the people, the surroundings,

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the colleagues, family, whatever,

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I think even if you can't afford to move out of the state,

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like almost anybody can move across town

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even 30 minutes away to just make it a little bit more

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inconvenient for your drug dealer,

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for your bars that you know,

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for the friends to say, you know,

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hey, we're doing fantasy whatever on Friday

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and it's like I can't make it, right?

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You just make it inconvenient to do all the things

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that you don't want to do and make it more convenient

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to do the things that you do and you'll do more of them.

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All right, so the interesting thing for me

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about the Vietnam heroin thing,

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which I've heard before is,

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and this relates to why I think people might be struggling now,

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is there's an underlying thing that's happening

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that the heroin or the porn or the social media

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or whatever is trying to mask and cope with.

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What is that today?

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Like we have things amazing, things who would not be better,

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but you've got people doing things to numb themselves out

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to what's that thing that they're afraid to face?

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I think it's their perceived judgment,

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their perception of other people's judgment

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of their failures that haven't existed yet.

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And so when you think about constructing a mindset

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that is going to allow somebody to be successful,

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like when I think about your blueprints,

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if you had to prep somebody to be ready

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to deal with that blueprint,

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what are some of the either core beliefs

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or habits that you would get them in the routine of doing

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so that they could actually deploy the things that you teach?

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I think some of the things that I'll say

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might sound repetitive to some folks,

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but I'm a big believer in a lot of the stoke virtues,

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and a lot of that just comes down to having your opinion

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of yourself be all that is required.

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And so it's like living for the future version of yourself

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and letting that person be your ultimate judge

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and no one else's voice.

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And I think that obviously it takes practice

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for social creatures.

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We learn how to behave from other people

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and their judgment of our behavior when we're kids

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and then we have to unlearn it as we're adults

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because we find out that the people who are giving us feedback

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actually have no idea what they're doing.

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So, but like it's super ingrained in us,

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and I think it's a long process,

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but like how do I prepare someone for that?

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It's like everything is removing the limitation, right?

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It's like I wanna get to hear.

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And so getting there is usually straightforward.

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It's the obstacles that are all the things

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that people put in their own way.

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So it's like what are,

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because the obstacle might be,

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have a different name for every person.

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And then trying to pull apart like why is this thing?

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Like why am I putting weight on this thing?

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Because you had a strong drive

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when you were growing up, right?

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And you wanted to get into film school, you had this thing

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like I don't know what that snap point is.

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For me, I just like my fear of disapproval

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from my dad was my big driver.

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And so that was the thing that could get me

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to quit whatever it was, you know what I mean?

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To do the one thing that mattered more.

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And I think that's at least for me.

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That was, I don't know how to find that for someone.

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You said something in one of the interviews

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that you were doing leading up to your book launch

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that really hit me.

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And that was, you rewrote the book something like 19 times.

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And when you got to a point one time,

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you're like, look, they're gonna be able to get this.

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And the guy you were working with said,

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look, there's a guy in Iran and he has one goat.

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And he's gonna sleep with a copy of this book

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under his pillow, do it for him.

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And that somehow sparked you.

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So my question is, given your response to that,

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given everybody needs that thing,

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are there some people that are beyond reach?

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No.

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I don't think, I mean,

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unless you have like mental disability,

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I mean, like I think that barring biology, right?

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No, I don't think so.

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I think I'm a big behavioral person,

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which is like anything can be trained.

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Even like, man, he has such a great personality.

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It's like, what is personality?

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Well, personality is probably 170 individual skills.

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And so if one of them is when someone walks

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in the room, you stand up, I can train that.

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If it means that like when someone's talking,

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I need you to nod your head like this

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when the other person talks, I can train that.

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And if we just had to make a checklist,

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it's just because it's hard to describe this,

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I mean, that's impossible to teach.

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That's interesting.

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Okay, so the spark, the thing then causes somebody

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to finally get into it,

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can be translated into a set of behaviors.

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Totally.

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And then if you get the set of behaviors,

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then you're going to be in a position to go.

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Right.

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Right.

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So what are some of the behaviors that people

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are doing now that you think are destructive

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and what do we replace them with?

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A lot of it is in action.

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Right, like it's, I'd love to say like,

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all these people are failing and this is the thing that would fix it,

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it's like most people just don't take action to begin with.

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And so I think a lot of it's between their ears to your point,

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which is why I talk a lot about fear of failure,

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being the actual enemy rather than failure itself.

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And really even like, even the idea that people are like,

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I'm afraid of failing, no one's afraid of failing.

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People are afraid of other people's judgment

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about their failure.

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If you could fail in private and no one would know,

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like when you play video games and you lose the level,

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you're not embarrassed, right?

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Like you lose.

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It's interesting.

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So I've heard you say that before,

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and I've always agreed.

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Yeah.

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Do you think that there is something that will chip away at somebody?

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It, so it comes down to what do you build your self-esteem around?

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This was the big breakthrough in my life.

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Was the day that I realized I got to choose what I built myself a steam around.

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And I had been building myself a steam around being smart.

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And so I was constantly putting myself in a position where I could prove

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to myself and others that I was smart.

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Now, I began to realize we are both the shout and the echo.

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And I wish it weren't so.

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I wish we weren't the echo.

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What I mean by that is you're what you do,

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but you're also what other people say about what you do.

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And as a just unimaginably social creature,

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it is baked so deeply into our DNA.

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Right.

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I don't think there's any escaping that.

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So you come into whether it's playing video games or trying to build a business

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or whatever with a lifetime of being both the shout and the echo.

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So you have a sense of who you are.

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You've mapped your self-esteem.

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And now if part of your self-esteem is I'm good at this thing after a while.

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Like you're way happier to fail in private because nobody sees you.

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So there's no new echo reinforcing what an asshole you are.

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But I don't think you have unlimited failures on your side.

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Before you go fuck, maybe I'm really not good at this thing.

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And if your self-esteem is about being good at that thing,

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then it really will begin to erode you.

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Do you have a, assuming I'm right about that,

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do you have a thing that you encourage people to build their self-esteem

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around to avoid the kind of traps that will make them afraid of failure?

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I think you would be around the traits, which can be evidenced by the things you do,

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which I think is probably where you made your shift.

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I'm assuming you're assuming here.

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But like it's not about being intelligent, but about being like hardworking, right?

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And it's like if you build your identity around that trait,

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then you can always do more of it.

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Like you always work harder.

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You can always put extra reps and et cetera.

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And I think if people build that trait as their identity

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and where they get their self-esteem from,

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then it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle.

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But they're the ones who are in control of it rather than the outcome.

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And so that way it's like all of the variables of your identity

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and your self-confidence are under your control, which I think is cool.

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Which is very cool.

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So have you identified the trait smorgasbord

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that people have at their ready to be thoughtful about?

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So for instance, being smart would be a trait,

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being honorable, being honest, being hardworking.

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What should people be building their self-esteem around?

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What traits is there?

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One, is there a magic handful?

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I think the ability to delay gratification

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and from a behavioral perspective,

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it's being able to continue to act on a longer extinguish curve,

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which is like if I knock on a door.

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So if I knock on a door and nothing happens,

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how many more times do I knock on the door before someone opens?

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So if you fire someone and they're like, wait, I want my job.

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00:10:53.560 --> 00:10:57.720
You can measure what someone's curve on how many times

257
00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:01.920
they will try again on something before they move on and give up.

258
00:11:01.920 --> 00:11:04.080
And so the longer you can make that curve on someone,

259
00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:06.040
the more likely they will hit the jackpot,

260
00:11:06.040 --> 00:11:08.960
which then extends how many more times they'll go the next time,

261
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:10.280
which is basically how addiction works too,

262
00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:13.600
but you can also use the same concept for good things.

263
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.280
So number one is being able to delay gratification.

264
00:11:17.280 --> 00:11:22.720
The second one is, I think it's vision of what you actually

265
00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:24.200
want to do is like, where do you want to go?

266
00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:25.600
Because you can have somebody who works really hard

267
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:27.360
at building a restaurant, like one single store,

268
00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.880
and you work really hard at building an app

269
00:11:29.880 --> 00:11:31.200
that's going to change the world.

270
00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.160
The amount of hours and effort that go into building

271
00:11:33.160 --> 00:11:34.760
an amazing restaurant and that are probably

272
00:11:34.760 --> 00:11:36.800
about the same, but the amount of impact

273
00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:39.960
is disproportionate on something that can go to gazillions

274
00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:40.640
of people.

275
00:11:40.640 --> 00:11:43.560
So I think you have to have some level of vision,

276
00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:45.920
and that comes from the people that you're around.

277
00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:49.560
The third one is having some level of drive,

278
00:11:49.560 --> 00:11:53.240
and I think that you can have either pool or away from drive.

279
00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:55.040
Pick which one, whichever one you've got more of,

280
00:11:55.040 --> 00:11:56.840
I would say start with that one.

281
00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:58.680
And I think it does shift over time,

282
00:11:58.680 --> 00:12:01.160
because many entrepreneurs have away from drive

283
00:12:01.160 --> 00:12:02.000
in the beginning.

284
00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:02.800
We're afraid of failing.

285
00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:04.880
We're afraid of not being enough.

286
00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:07.920
We hate being poor, whatever your thing is.

287
00:12:07.920 --> 00:12:10.120
A lot of times, especially I get a lot of DMs about this,

288
00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:11.480
it's like I'm trying to find my passion.

289
00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.800
I'm trying to find my purpose, my thing.

290
00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:15.560
And I don't think you find it.

291
00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:16.600
I think you make it.

292
00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:18.560
How do you know if you're going to like anything

293
00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:19.840
without trying it, you don't?

294
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.200
And most people hate things that they suck at.

295
00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.200
And how do you stop sucking stuff?

296
00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:26.760
You do stuff that you suck at a lot until you suck less

297
00:12:26.760 --> 00:12:27.680
until you're eventually good.

298
00:12:27.680 --> 00:12:31.400
And so you're not going to be passionate about anything

299
00:12:31.400 --> 00:12:33.720
that you suck at, which means that it's

300
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:36.000
a fallacy of thinking.

301
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.040
I have a hypothesis that haunts me,

302
00:12:38.040 --> 00:12:40.280
and that hypothesis is for real,

303
00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:42.520
partly because it applies to me.

304
00:12:42.520 --> 00:12:45.200
That hypothesis is that people have a very hard time

305
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.480
holding sophisticated ideas in their head.

306
00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:50.640
Part of what I think makes you so amazing and PS,

307
00:12:50.640 --> 00:12:53.320
I would like to say, that almost a year ago,

308
00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:55.360
I said, within the next five years,

309
00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.240
you'll be one of the biggest names in social media.

310
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.840
And I think you crushed the timeline just monstrously.

311
00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:02.840
Well, you killed the prediction.

312
00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:04.960
Hey, there it is.

313
00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:07.480
Just really, really crazy.

314
00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:13.120
But people really have just such a difficult time

315
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.160
holding sophisticated ideas in their head.

316
00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:18.680
The thing that makes you amazing is that you are able

317
00:13:18.680 --> 00:13:20.240
to hold sophisticated ideas in your head

318
00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.440
and simplify them so that people can understand

319
00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.920
and they can deploy them and actually use them.

320
00:13:24.920 --> 00:13:27.920
But the inability to hold the sophisticated idea

321
00:13:27.920 --> 00:13:31.720
in their head is going to create a tremendous amount of problems.

322
00:13:31.760 --> 00:13:34.040
So when I think about, okay,

323
00:13:34.040 --> 00:13:37.920
you're going to have to pick something for your identity

324
00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:39.640
that's going to allow you to face failure,

325
00:13:39.640 --> 00:13:41.400
to go into that loop,

326
00:13:41.400 --> 00:13:43.440
to be able to tear yourself down

327
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:47.960
and not have your desire to push forward extinguished,

328
00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:51.560
you already have to be able to conceptualize that idea

329
00:13:51.560 --> 00:13:54.840
that you're going to be fighting against your neurochemistry.

330
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:56.720
So you're going to knock on that door,

331
00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:58.040
it is going to be brutal.

332
00:13:58.040 --> 00:14:00.120
It's going to feel so bad, like death.

333
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.600
And you then have to do mental jujitsu

334
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.040
to translate that into, ah,

335
00:14:06.040 --> 00:14:08.240
but I build myself a steam around being the person

336
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.200
that can have this long extinguisher

337
00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:11.440
that I can knock on a thousand doors

338
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.720
when anybody else can only knock on two.

339
00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:17.160
And I worry, God, is my big fear

340
00:14:17.160 --> 00:14:19.360
that I do think some people are beyond reach?

341
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.680
I think that is my big fear.

342
00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:26.120
And I do, impact theory is predicated on the idea

343
00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:29.120
that as long as somebody meets minimum requirements,

344
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.280
that they're going to be able to do it,

345
00:14:31.280 --> 00:14:33.120
but to press on this point,

346
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.560
because I'm deeply optimistic.

347
00:14:34.560 --> 00:14:37.120
And so Lord knows, I hope that you convince me.

348
00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:41.000
But the more I do this game,

349
00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:44.240
the more I realize that people get trapped in things like,

350
00:14:45.520 --> 00:14:47.720
I'm trying to find my passion.

351
00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:51.280
And that the emotion of nothing feeling real

352
00:14:51.280 --> 00:14:55.800
is, and what you have to do to build a connection

353
00:14:55.800 --> 00:14:58.840
between, I choose to make this my passion,

354
00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.120
and how you make that emotionally resonant

355
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.480
is so sophisticated that most people

356
00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:06.760
won't be able to pull it off.

357
00:15:06.760 --> 00:15:08.000
Yeah.

358
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.120
You talk about stacking pennies on the evidence.

359
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:12.440
Mm-hmm.

360
00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:16.120
What evidence do you have for all of us

361
00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:21.120
that it, anybody really can turn a lack of belief

362
00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:27.000
into simple rudimentary behavioral things

363
00:15:27.520 --> 00:15:29.320
that they do to get those wins?

364
00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:30.160
Yeah.

365
00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:36.320
So I'll make a statement, and then I'll answer that,

366
00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.960
which is, I think like confidence

367
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.240
without evidence is delusion.

368
00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:43.920
And so the idea that you aren't confident,

369
00:15:43.920 --> 00:15:46.080
if you don't feel confident right now,

370
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.240
is okay, because the question is,

371
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.200
what are you trying to be confident about?

372
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:51.960
Like confidence as a word, right?

373
00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:55.160
So if we can define terms, is your,

374
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:59.800
the own percentage likelihood that you have

375
00:15:59.800 --> 00:16:02.800
that what you think will happen or will happen, right?

376
00:16:02.800 --> 00:16:05.040
Like in statistics, like what is our confidence score

377
00:16:05.040 --> 00:16:06.280
on this metric, right?

378
00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:07.800
And so the same thing applies to a person.

379
00:16:07.800 --> 00:16:09.640
What is our confidence that when Johnny says

380
00:16:09.640 --> 00:16:11.360
he will do this, it will happen.

381
00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:13.560
And so we have our own confidence metric for ourselves,

382
00:16:13.560 --> 00:16:14.960
which is a percentage likely that we will do

383
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:16.240
what we say we're gonna do.

384
00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:18.960
And so the way that you can increase that confidence

385
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:20.840
is to have more evidence that you've done things

386
00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:22.560
when you said you would do them in the past.

387
00:16:22.560 --> 00:16:26.040
And so I think it's about looking retrospectively

388
00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:29.000
and thinking, you know, what story can I tell around this data

389
00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.360
that would give me more evidence

390
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:31.720
that I actually do have some of these traits

391
00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:32.560
that I didn't think about.

392
00:16:32.560 --> 00:16:34.680
And I'll give you a funny little quip on this.

393
00:16:34.680 --> 00:16:36.520
So when I was selling weight loss memberships

394
00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:39.160
way back in the day, I remember a common thing

395
00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:41.880
that would come in, you know, a lady would sit down

396
00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:46.040
and say, you know, I haven't worked out in seven years,

397
00:16:46.040 --> 00:16:48.120
and I know I need to be going to the gym.

398
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.040
And I would say, that's amazing.

399
00:16:50.040 --> 00:16:52.040
And they would just be shocked.

400
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:53.040
What do you mean?

401
00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:55.280
And I'd be like, you're so consistent.

402
00:16:55.280 --> 00:16:57.240
I was like, so you already have the trait of consistency.

403
00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.760
I was like, we should have to flip it.

404
00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:00.880
I was like, it's way harder to learn to be consistent.

405
00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:02.120
Then I was like, if you were just yo-yoing

406
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:03.120
back and forth all the time, I was like,

407
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:03.920
it might be way harder.

408
00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:05.320
I was like, but you actually stick with what you,

409
00:17:05.320 --> 00:17:08.320
and they were like, you never thought about it like that.

410
00:17:08.320 --> 00:17:10.120
And so it's just like, and I say that

411
00:17:10.120 --> 00:17:10.960
a little bit tongue in cheek,

412
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.040
but to the same degree, it was really just a reframe

413
00:17:13.040 --> 00:17:13.880
for these people.

414
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.400
And whether or not, you know, people wanna take that

415
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:17.400
and run with it in whatever direction,

416
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:18.720
and for me, I just wanted this person

417
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:19.720
to believe they could do it.

418
00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:21.320
And so I think to the same degree, it's like,

419
00:17:21.320 --> 00:17:25.400
well, if every day, you didn't make 100 reach outs, right?

420
00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:27.280
Or you didn't make the piece of content that you wanted to.

421
00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:29.880
But up until that point, you've always like been able

422
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.360
to like make a couple coffee and like,

423
00:17:32.360 --> 00:17:36.520
sit down at the computer rather than going to the arcade,

424
00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:38.840
you know, figuratively or, you know,

425
00:17:38.840 --> 00:17:41.080
playing video games or going to play video games

426
00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:41.920
much to you.

427
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:42.760
No.

428
00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:44.880
Going to the arcade, boys and girls.

429
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.360
Back in the 1980s, yeah.

430
00:17:47.360 --> 00:17:48.360
It's so.

431
00:17:49.320 --> 00:17:51.520
It's counting the wins sometimes of losses

432
00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:53.200
that didn't happen, which is like,

433
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.200
what could have gone worse, which is also a stoic frame?

434
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:56.880
But it's like, what could I have done

435
00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.120
to mess this day up more than I did?

436
00:17:59.120 --> 00:17:59.960
It's like, well, I could have.

437
00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:01.320
I mean, I could have taken five shots

438
00:18:01.320 --> 00:18:02.160
when I woke up.

439
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:03.000
I didn't do that.

440
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.240
It's like, okay, check.

441
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:05.080
Great.

442
00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:05.920
Okay.

443
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.320
I haven't started my day with drinking.

444
00:18:08.320 --> 00:18:09.680
Have I started my day with drugs?

445
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:10.520
No.

446
00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:11.440
How many days in a row have I not started my day

447
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.640
with drugs, you know, drugs and drinking?

448
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:14.800
It's like, I don't know, a whole year.

449
00:18:14.800 --> 00:18:15.960
It's like, okay.

450
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.240
Well, like, let's just basically chunk down a level

451
00:18:18.280 --> 00:18:19.600
and then you see all of a sudden,

452
00:18:19.600 --> 00:18:21.400
you like peel back the onion and you're like,

453
00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:23.040
oh, I have tons of evidence

454
00:18:23.040 --> 00:18:24.400
that I can be consistent on things.

455
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.320
I just need to add another thing on top of those behaviors

456
00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:29.240
that I already have proven that I can do.

457
00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.120
And so now when I make this prediction

458
00:18:31.120 --> 00:18:33.760
of my confidence that I can do this,

459
00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:35.600
like you just take one step at a time.

460
00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:39.560
And I think that the big meta skills come from those,

461
00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:42.520
what we call virtues, but virtues are just behaviors,

462
00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:43.520
which can be trained.

463
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.480
Virtues are behaviors that can be trained.

464
00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:48.440
It's really interesting, man.

465
00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.880
I very much like the way that you look at the world.

466
00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.720
And I think I've tried to articulate a similar idea

467
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:56.360
and the way that I approached it was,

468
00:18:56.360 --> 00:18:59.080
it doesn't matter if you think negatively

469
00:18:59.080 --> 00:19:01.160
and act well.

470
00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.720
You'll still get the success out of acting well.

471
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.080
If you act poorly but think positively,

472
00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:07.000
you'll go nowhere.

473
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.880
And this is why it drives me crazy

474
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.560
when people's advice is look in the mirror

475
00:19:10.560 --> 00:19:12.360
and say that you love yourself and all that.

476
00:19:12.360 --> 00:19:13.320
It won't work.

477
00:19:13.320 --> 00:19:14.240
And at the end of the day,

478
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.720
success really is just,

479
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:17.960
it's doing the right things.

480
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:24.480
Another killer, so I do look out at the world right now

481
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.800
and I see where building products

482
00:19:27.800 --> 00:19:32.120
that squeeze our dopamine has created amazing products.

483
00:19:32.120 --> 00:19:35.200
The iPhone is incredible and I'm very glad that it exists.

484
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:38.600
But I also see it having a very negative impact

485
00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:42.680
on a lot of people that simply pull the dopamine lever.

486
00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:44.280
And for people that aren't familiar with,

487
00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:48.280
there was a behavioral study done in mice or rats.

488
00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:53.040
And if you let one, you're putting the mouse in a cage,

489
00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:55.360
so you're already an artificially limited environment.

490
00:19:55.360 --> 00:19:58.280
But if you let it tap the lever for cocaine,

491
00:19:58.280 --> 00:19:59.880
it will tap it until it dies.

492
00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:03.000
Now the fascinating thing about cocaine is that it's dopamine.

493
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.520
It's basically the potential for reward,

494
00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:08.960
more than the reward itself.

495
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.400
And so I think that we have a lot of products

496
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:14.920
to do incredibly well because they're all about squeezing

497
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:16.600
that dopamine release.

498
00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:19.280
And therefore for people to do what you're talking about,

499
00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:20.920
like if let's just embrace the frame

500
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:22.200
for the rest of this conversation

501
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.920
and I hope the rest of my life,

502
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.080
that truly nobody is beyond this

503
00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:30.800
barring some mental problem

504
00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:32.840
that makes it impossible for them to move forward.

505
00:20:32.840 --> 00:20:36.240
So that you really just have to find those behaviors.

506
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:38.960
So if you understand that the world right now

507
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.520
is designed to get you to be watching pornography

508
00:20:41.520 --> 00:20:45.520
to be playing on social media to play mindless video games,

509
00:20:45.520 --> 00:20:47.080
I will say as somebody making video games,

510
00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:49.440
I know I'm well aware there's usefulness

511
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:50.840
and then there's waste.

512
00:20:52.520 --> 00:20:53.720
But understanding all of that,

513
00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:55.000
that the world is set up against you,

514
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:58.000
then you have to have a technique that's going to allow you

515
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.360
to get into these habits that are going to be effective.

516
00:21:00.360 --> 00:21:02.560
Now one thing that was absolutely transformative

517
00:21:02.560 --> 00:21:07.080
in my life was have rules to just a absolute binary.

518
00:21:07.080 --> 00:21:10.440
And so this will be a hot take that will piss some people off.

519
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.520
But I've always said I do not understand

520
00:21:12.520 --> 00:21:14.200
how people get addicted to drugs.

521
00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.000
Because if you just have a rule in your life

522
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.800
that says obviously I will exclude pain management.

523
00:21:19.800 --> 00:21:21.720
If you just have a rule in your life that says,

524
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.000
I don't let's take drinking.

525
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.160
I don't drink more than twice a week period.

526
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.720
So if you've taken a drink for the third time in the week,

527
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.920
you violated your rule,

528
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:33.000
you know that you're out of bounds,

529
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:35.520
you need to immediately correct course.

530
00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:39.920
Do you leverage rules or things binary things

531
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:42.200
so that you know like I give myself 10 minutes

532
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:44.480
to get out of bed, that's like my big rule.

533
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:46.320
Do you have anything like that that allows you to?

534
00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:48.000
I probably live the exact opposite way.

535
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.000
Not as a contrary point, just I hate rules, all rules.

536
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.960
And so how do you stay on the right behaviors?

537
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.440
I do the things that ever worded me in the past.

538
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.080
I mean, then genuinely.

539
00:22:04.080 --> 00:22:07.400
Like when I wake up earlier, better things have happened for me.

540
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:09.760
When I do more work before I have my meetings,

541
00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:10.840
better things have happened for me.

542
00:22:10.840 --> 00:22:12.760
When I eat a certain way,

543
00:22:12.760 --> 00:22:14.000
I look the way that I want

544
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.680
and better things happen for me.

545
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:20.680
And so I just, I buck against rules really hard

546
00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:22.040
and I don't know why that is.

547
00:22:22.040 --> 00:22:23.840
But like the moment someone's like,

548
00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:25.680
you can't have chocolate or you can't smoke

549
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.640
or you can't whatever, I'm like, why not?

550
00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:28.480
I'll do it.

551
00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:29.800
And then still win at the thing to prove

552
00:22:29.800 --> 00:22:30.680
that that's not the point,

553
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:34.880
which is why I get annoyed with a lot of the superstition

554
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:37.720
around routine.

555
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:39.720
And what I mean by that is like,

556
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.240
you know, I've got, I mean, I remember there was a guy

557
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.400
who messaged me, he's like, dude, I'm doing my morning routine.

558
00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:46.320
He's like, and I have a cold plunge, a red light sauna,

559
00:22:46.320 --> 00:22:48.040
I ground outside.

560
00:22:48.040 --> 00:22:50.080
And then I do my gratitude journal.

561
00:22:50.080 --> 00:22:51.720
And then he did this list.

562
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:52.560
He was like, you know,

563
00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:54.560
he was taking like three hours to get his routine done

564
00:22:54.560 --> 00:22:55.600
or whatever in the morning.

565
00:22:57.520 --> 00:23:01.480
And I was like, you know, you could just not do that

566
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.080
and work for three more hours every day.

567
00:23:04.080 --> 00:23:05.920
I was like, I'll bet you'll make more money.

568
00:23:06.040 --> 00:23:07.600
And so I think there's a lot of superstition around,

569
00:23:07.600 --> 00:23:10.920
especially entrepreneur space around routine

570
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:13.000
as like, if I don't get my morning routine in,

571
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:13.840
I'm just useless.

572
00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:16.480
And I'm like, man, I'd love to compete against you.

573
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.000
Right, because like you have one bad night of sleep

574
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:18.840
and you're fucked.

575
00:23:18.840 --> 00:23:20.680
I was like, I will continue to work

576
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.000
because working has worked for me in the past.

577
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:26.000
But I love what you were saying earlier with like success

578
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.000
doesn't really care or the result.

579
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:28.840
Doesn't really care.

580
00:23:28.840 --> 00:23:30.000
One plus one, if you still do the addition,

581
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.240
it equals two, whether you're a good person

582
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:32.160
or you're a bad person.

583
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.960
If you make a hundred calls or you, you know,

584
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:34.920
make a hundred pieces of content,

585
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.080
likely that somebody will find out of your product

586
00:23:37.080 --> 00:23:40.080
is greater than if you make zero, period, fight me.

587
00:23:40.080 --> 00:23:43.000
And so you can do those things and be,

588
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.720
you can drink and do drugs and watch porn.

589
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:50.320
If you still do the shit, that's all that matters.

590
00:23:50.320 --> 00:23:52.880
Now, those things might make it more difficult,

591
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:54.960
but I always came in from the perspective of like,

592
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.000
I wanna do the formula and then live my life

593
00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.240
how I wanna live.

594
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:00.800
And if that means that sometimes I drink more

595
00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:02.600
and sometimes I drink less or sometimes I work out more

596
00:24:02.600 --> 00:24:04.680
and sometimes I work out less, sometimes you desert,

597
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.120
sometimes I eat really small deserts.

598
00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:07.960
That's fine.

599
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:11.880
And so I, it's just like, what are the actual things that matter?

600
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.440
And if you look at, and you have a lot of wealthy friends,

601
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.440
like the way people work, the routines that they have

602
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:21.960
are so varied, which to me means that they don't matter.

603
00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:24.480
Because if there were something that absolutely has to be done

604
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.800
then it has to go down to first principles of,

605
00:24:25.800 --> 00:24:28.160
okay, in order for people to find out about your stuff,

606
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:29.360
you have to let them know.

607
00:24:29.360 --> 00:24:31.280
Great, so you have to advertise it in some way

608
00:24:31.280 --> 00:24:33.840
for people to find out about it to buy, period.

609
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:36.760
No, like anybody who has a business, that rule applies.

610
00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:39.160
Now, some of them are, you know, don't drink,

611
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:40.560
some of them drink a ton.

612
00:24:40.560 --> 00:24:44.120
Some of them watch porn, some of them don't watch porn at all.

613
00:24:44.120 --> 00:24:45.800
And also make tons of money.

614
00:24:45.800 --> 00:24:48.800
And so I try to have as few rules as possible

615
00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:51.120
to give myself as much latitude to live my life.

616
00:24:52.560 --> 00:24:56.880
That is, that's really interesting.

617
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:59.520
And I will, no, no, for sure, I love that.

618
00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:01.240
And I think that's one of the most interesting things

619
00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:02.320
about the era that we're living in

620
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.280
as people get all these different perspectives.

621
00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:09.400
So for, the thing that we agree on is that

622
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:11.280
there are physics to everything.

623
00:25:11.280 --> 00:25:13.240
So success has physics.

624
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:16.600
And if you're not trying to do something that violates physics,

625
00:25:16.600 --> 00:25:17.840
then you're going to be fine.

626
00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:20.280
And so how you get there is somewhat irrelevant.

627
00:25:20.280 --> 00:25:21.120
Yeah.

628
00:25:21.120 --> 00:25:24.240
I have a feeling speaking to the people

629
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:28.480
that are caught up in the, they're wasting their time.

630
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.840
They're not doing the things that they need to do.

631
00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:32.920
They're going to need to create some structure.

632
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.640
Now, that structure may be as simple

633
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.440
as what you're talking about, which is,

634
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:39.240
because if, from my frame of reference,

635
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.280
the way that I would put thoughts in my own head

636
00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:43.560
about what you're saying is, I have a rule,

637
00:25:43.560 --> 00:25:45.240
and this is a literal rule of mine.

638
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.240
I only do and believe that, which moves me towards my goals,

639
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.360
which sounds very akin to what you're talking about.

640
00:25:51.360 --> 00:25:53.840
It's like, if I do this thing, I get this output.

641
00:25:53.840 --> 00:25:55.840
When I wake up early, I've had better things happen.

642
00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:57.440
When I'm in shape, better things happen,

643
00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:59.880
and I put in the work, better things happen.

644
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.400
And ultimately, that's the thing that I'm trying

645
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.160
to get people to anchor around is there,

646
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:09.760
everything that you do as a test, your test will have results.

647
00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:11.360
It's what I call the physics of progress.

648
00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:14.360
So to make progress, one must have a hypothesis,

649
00:26:14.360 --> 00:26:16.520
know where you are, know where you want to go,

650
00:26:16.520 --> 00:26:18.520
understand the obstacle between you and that,

651
00:26:18.520 --> 00:26:21.080
come up with a hypothesis about how to overcome that obstacle,

652
00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:24.800
run that test, look at the data very frankly,

653
00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:29.080
don't be us yourself, and then come up with a more informed

654
00:26:29.080 --> 00:26:32.680
hypothesis and try again over and over and over and over.

655
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:35.120
But ultimately, you're steering by results.

656
00:26:35.120 --> 00:26:40.280
And I think very often, people either don't know how to,

657
00:26:40.280 --> 00:26:42.120
in fact, I think there's a few things that will happen.

658
00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:44.240
One, they don't know how to conceive of the problem,

659
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:45.960
so they don't understand the obstacle.

660
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:47.920
Two, they don't know where they're going,

661
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.200
or three, they cannot break themselves

662
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.000
out of the dopamine cycle.

663
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.320
They haven't identified the pain they're moving away

664
00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:57.200
from whatever insecurity they have.

665
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.400
And so they end up in that death loop of feeling

666
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:02.720
like they don't have enough time.

667
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:04.040
When a reality they have the same time

668
00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:06.080
is hyper-efficient, successful people,

669
00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:09.560
they just don't use it in the same fashion.

670
00:27:09.560 --> 00:27:12.600
I think Seneca said that we all think we don't have enough time,

671
00:27:12.600 --> 00:27:16.680
but it's really just don't use the time we have well.

672
00:27:19.600 --> 00:27:22.880
And I think a lot of it is around like how we choose to pick

673
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:24.240
our identities to your point earlier.

674
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.080
Like someone might say like, man, I'm lazy.

675
00:27:27.080 --> 00:27:29.320
I would say like, that's amazing.

676
00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:31.040
Like a lot of great CEOs are lazy.

677
00:27:31.040 --> 00:27:32.880
That's fine.

678
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:33.880
Let's use that.

679
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.120
And so let's just make working more convenient

680
00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:38.240
than the other thing.

681
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.320
And then your laziness will take over.

682
00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:42.320
Or you don't mean just like in terms of how we can frame

683
00:27:42.320 --> 00:27:43.560
the problem, right?

684
00:27:43.560 --> 00:27:46.640
Like as an example, we're saying earlier with the iPhone,

685
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.360
like, scientific study, anyone can do this.

686
00:27:50.360 --> 00:27:51.880
You can decrease your iPhone usage

687
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:54.560
by simply going to grayscale.

688
00:27:54.560 --> 00:27:57.240
Like across age groups, if you switch your colors

689
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.760
on your screen to grayscale, you will use it 30% less

690
00:28:00.760 --> 00:28:01.880
than you normally would.

691
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:02.880
It's like great.

692
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.240
For most people, that's like an hour plus a day.

693
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:06.880
30% is an hour plus?

694
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:08.080
Oh my god, yeah.

695
00:28:08.080 --> 00:28:11.200
Well, I mean, I think average iPhone usage is probably like,

696
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:13.840
I mean, I think one hour is like conservative on that.

697
00:28:13.840 --> 00:28:16.760
I think it's like, like, might be even too.

698
00:28:16.760 --> 00:28:17.360
Yalza.

699
00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:18.040
Yeah.

700
00:28:18.040 --> 00:28:18.880
Hours, it's like, there you go.

701
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:19.960
Found your time.

702
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.920
You can make all your content.

703
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:21.760
You can tell the stuff.

704
00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:25.000
You watch a movie at the time that you have from saving it.

705
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:26.480
But like anyone can do it.

706
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:28.680
And so just like how many, how many of these little things

707
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:29.640
can I make convenient, right?

708
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:31.280
So like if you're trying to eat healthy, right?

709
00:28:31.280 --> 00:28:33.640
I mean, obviously, we both came from that space.

710
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:35.040
It's like, well, you just make it more convenient

711
00:28:35.040 --> 00:28:36.560
to eat healthy than eat unhealthy.

712
00:28:36.560 --> 00:28:37.920
It's like, okay, we'll remove all the stuff

713
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:39.640
in your house that you don't want to be eating.

714
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:40.840
Make sure that all the snacks you have

715
00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:42.720
are protein-related snacks.

716
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.400
You know, anything that has calories in it

717
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:47.400
that's a beverage, don't include it, right?

718
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.160
Like just the, just simple things that all of a sudden,

719
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:50.240
you're like, I'm hungry and you're like,

720
00:28:50.520 --> 00:28:54.800
I've got cucumber slices and protein chips.

721
00:28:54.800 --> 00:28:56.800
You're like, what do you think will be more effective

722
00:28:56.800 --> 00:28:59.280
that or dehydrating the horse?

723
00:28:59.280 --> 00:29:00.880
I think that is dehydrating the horse.

724
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:01.720
Interesting.

725
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:03.680
That one's never spoken to me.

726
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:05.480
One, because that's not my problem.

727
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:07.160
You can fill my house with snacks.

728
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.600
And if it either violates one of my rules,

729
00:29:09.600 --> 00:29:11.640
which I'm obsessed with because I created them

730
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:13.800
and they're designed to get me the results that I want,

731
00:29:13.800 --> 00:29:17.760
or they violate my identity, I'm not going to do it.

732
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:20.160
That's unique to you.

733
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:23.360
I think that's like a Tom, like 1% thing,

734
00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:24.800
just me from the outside.

735
00:29:24.800 --> 00:29:26.920
I think a lot of people have a hard time following rules.

736
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:29.800
You don't think people will drive 30 minutes

737
00:29:29.800 --> 00:29:32.120
to gorge on something.

738
00:29:32.120 --> 00:29:33.520
I think they could, but they're just as likely

739
00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:34.880
to break a rule.

740
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.000
And I think it'd be, I think it's more likely

741
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.560
that they will break a rule because it takes less effort

742
00:29:38.560 --> 00:29:40.120
to break the rule to themselves

743
00:29:40.120 --> 00:29:41.600
than it does to drive 30 minutes.

744
00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:43.880
And so I just want to make it as inconvenient as possible

745
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:46.080
to do the wrong thing and as convenient as possible

746
00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:46.920
to do the right thing.

747
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.360
That will clearly be advantageous.

748
00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:53.640
So in no way is what I'm about to say arguing against that.

749
00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:56.960
So huge, love that, toll support on board.

750
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:00.760
Now, having said that, I have a feeling

751
00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:02.800
that the thing that people are up against,

752
00:30:02.800 --> 00:30:05.520
and I thought a lot about this with food.

753
00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:08.160
At Quest, I wasn't thinking, oh, I need to make this convenient.

754
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:09.000
That was part of it.

755
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:10.760
And we certainly were not blind to the fact

756
00:30:10.760 --> 00:30:12.080
that giving somebody a package good

757
00:30:12.080 --> 00:30:13.080
that they could carry in their purse

758
00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:14.720
was going to be really helpful.

759
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:16.320
But the mantra I kept saying to myself

760
00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:19.440
was, I want to make food that people can choose based on taste.

761
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:20.760
And it happens to be good for them.

762
00:30:20.760 --> 00:30:22.880
Because I think people will go way out of their way,

763
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.800
violate rules, all that, to eat something

764
00:30:25.800 --> 00:30:28.600
that makes them feel the way they want to feel.

765
00:30:28.600 --> 00:30:32.560
And if I had to anchor all of my fears around people

766
00:30:32.560 --> 00:30:34.640
not being able to accomplish what they want to accomplish,

767
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.040
it would all be around the things you're going to need to do

768
00:30:38.040 --> 00:30:40.360
don't feel the way you want them to feel.

769
00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:42.600
And because they don't feel the way you want them to feel,

770
00:30:42.600 --> 00:30:45.760
you veer towards the things that do make you feel

771
00:30:46.120 --> 00:30:47.800
the way you want to feel.

772
00:30:47.800 --> 00:30:50.680
Now, part of that, you can accomplish by reframing.

773
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:55.320
But part of it, I think, is inescapable.

774
00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:57.080
You're going to do what feels good

775
00:30:57.080 --> 00:31:01.480
and you're going to avoid what's painful for the most part.

776
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:02.760
Okay, I love this.

777
00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:06.200
So one of the big misnomers in my opinion

778
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.320
around discipline is that people who,

779
00:31:08.320 --> 00:31:10.280
like some people might look at me and say that,

780
00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:11.360
oh, Alex is really disciplined.

781
00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:14.560
But I actually really do what I want to do every day.

782
00:31:14.560 --> 00:31:16.600
And it just so happens to be work that is productive

783
00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:17.920
and makes money.

784
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:20.720
But that statement that you made earlier,

785
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:22.520
that people, what do you say?

786
00:31:22.520 --> 00:31:24.440
You said, people do what makes them feel

787
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:26.000
the way they want to feel, right?

788
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:27.760
And then they, you said,

789
00:31:27.760 --> 00:31:29.880
well, oh, it's because it's not making them feel

790
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:31.080
the way they want to feel.

791
00:31:31.080 --> 00:31:33.080
And my only addition to that would have just been,

792
00:31:33.080 --> 00:31:36.240
yet, just yet.

793
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:37.920
And so it's usually because their extinction curve

794
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.240
is too low on the behavior.

795
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:44.080
And so if I go, let's say I'm the best door knocker

796
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:46.040
in the world, best door knocking sales guys.

797
00:31:46.040 --> 00:31:48.240
And I knock on five doors.

798
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.760
I might not get an answer from any of those five doors.

799
00:31:50.760 --> 00:31:53.160
And I walk away and I say, I guess door knocking is in for me.

800
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:56.640
And I might be the LeBron James of door knocking, right?

801
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:57.960
But if the sample size is too small

802
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.480
because my extinction curve just cuts off really fast,

803
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.280
I'll never know.

804
00:32:02.280 --> 00:32:03.120
And so that's why it's like,

805
00:32:03.120 --> 00:32:06.160
if you can give the thing the opportunity

806
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.720
to reinforce its own behavior,

807
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.560
then it goes from external to internal.

808
00:32:09.560 --> 00:32:11.440
We're like video editors, for example,

809
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:12.360
like there's people who love,

810
00:32:12.360 --> 00:32:14.880
I mean, we're going to film school, right?

811
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:16.800
In the beginning, you suck at editing film.

812
00:32:16.800 --> 00:32:18.760
But then you like make the letters appear

813
00:32:18.760 --> 00:32:19.800
and you get instant feedback.

814
00:32:19.800 --> 00:32:21.960
And you're like, whoa, that was rewarding, right?

815
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:23.240
And then you do it again.

816
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:24.560
And then you learn another technique,

817
00:32:24.560 --> 00:32:25.600
and another technique, another technique.

818
00:32:25.600 --> 00:32:28.760
And so then the behavior itself becomes rewarding

819
00:32:28.760 --> 00:32:31.320
and you begin to like work, right?

820
00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:32.520
You begin liking your work.

821
00:32:32.520 --> 00:32:34.720
And so I think it really is that just getting over

822
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:38.360
the hump in the beginning of knocking on a thousand doors

823
00:32:38.360 --> 00:32:40.680
rather than five, and realizing that it would make sense

824
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:42.760
that you would suck because you haven't done it before.

825
00:32:42.760 --> 00:32:45.400
But knowing that if other people have done it too,

826
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.400
that there is a reward that will eventually come

827
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:48.680
and it will reinforce me

828
00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.520
just like it has every other human before me

829
00:32:50.520 --> 00:32:51.560
who has done this.

830
00:32:51.560 --> 00:32:56.120
And I think just like one of my core assumptions,

831
00:32:56.120 --> 00:32:59.320
as I like to say, is that if somebody else

832
00:32:59.320 --> 00:33:01.800
can do these behaviors, I can do these behaviors

833
00:33:01.800 --> 00:33:03.240
and get the same outcome.

834
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.200
Barring external environments, different timing

835
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.440
and things like that, but assuming that those are the same,

836
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:08.880
they were not going to sell solar today,

837
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:10.280
but the same as it was last year.

838
00:33:10.280 --> 00:33:11.840
And if I see somebody who's number one in solar

839
00:33:11.840 --> 00:33:13.120
and I do the same behaviors as them,

840
00:33:13.120 --> 00:33:15.760
I will likely get an outcome that is decent.

841
00:33:15.760 --> 00:33:19.360
And so that's what gives me confidence going

842
00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:22.280
into a new environment is modeling somebody

843
00:33:22.280 --> 00:33:25.120
and just being like ignore all of these other things.

844
00:33:25.120 --> 00:33:26.480
What are the behaviors?

845
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:28.720
How many times is this person,

846
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:30.360
how quickly do they walk from door to door?

847
00:33:30.360 --> 00:33:31.600
Do they only go to apartment buildings?

848
00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:34.440
Or like what's there, what is all the steps that they do?

849
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:39.360
Operationalizing success, rather than kind of like the theorizing

850
00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:40.280
that I feel like happens a lot.

851
00:33:40.280 --> 00:33:42.360
And I think that's to be fair, I think the reason a lot of people

852
00:33:42.360 --> 00:33:43.800
kind of like some of the content that

853
00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:45.320
I put out from a money-making perspective

854
00:33:45.320 --> 00:33:47.760
is how can I operationalize this word, right?

855
00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:49.240
So like patience, for example, is one of the people

856
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:50.200
throughout a lot.

857
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:52.480
But for me, defining patience was helpful,

858
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:56.160
which is figuring out what to do in the meantime.

859
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:58.600
Like that's patience.

860
00:33:58.600 --> 00:33:59.680
Like we're like, I'm not patient.

861
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.480
It's like, no, you just need to figure out what to do in the meantime.

862
00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:02.320
That's all.

863
00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:03.960
You and I are being patient on all the investments

864
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.280
that we made last year while we're having this podcast.

865
00:34:06.280 --> 00:34:07.120
Like they are happening.

866
00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:08.120
We're figuring out what to do in the meantime.

867
00:34:08.120 --> 00:34:09.360
So we're being patient.

868
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:12.080
And so it's like patience feels bad when you're focusing on it.

869
00:34:12.080 --> 00:34:13.080
But if you're not focusing on it,

870
00:34:13.080 --> 00:34:15.880
then patience happens by default.

871
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:17.680
Like sadness, for example, like that was really

872
00:34:17.680 --> 00:34:21.280
helped me to figure out, just even defining the word

873
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:22.920
in terms of operational perspective,

874
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:25.120
help me get out of those folks faster,

875
00:34:25.120 --> 00:34:28.920
which is sadness comes from a lack of options,

876
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.120
a perceived lack of options,

877
00:34:31.120 --> 00:34:34.080
which is why it feels like hopelessness.

878
00:34:34.080 --> 00:34:36.480
But if it comes from a perceived lack of options,

879
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.040
then it means that you solve that with knowledge

880
00:34:39.040 --> 00:34:41.360
because it's perceived lack of options,

881
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:44.160
which is an ignorance problem, which means it's solvable,

882
00:34:44.160 --> 00:34:45.960
which all of a sudden gives me something to do.

883
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.560
So then all of a sudden, I do have an option

884
00:34:47.560 --> 00:34:48.720
and then you can get out of the funk.

885
00:34:48.720 --> 00:34:50.760
And like anxiety is the reverse of that,

886
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:51.960
which is I have many options,

887
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.000
and I don't know which one to pick,

888
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.560
which means I don't have priorities.

889
00:34:54.560 --> 00:34:57.600
So like you solve sadness through knowledge,

890
00:34:57.600 --> 00:34:59.600
you solve anxiety through decisions.

891
00:35:00.600 --> 00:35:04.280
And so like helping me just spell those out to myself,

892
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:05.240
I'm like, ah, I feel anxious.

893
00:35:05.240 --> 00:35:06.920
Okay, that means that I have lots of paths

894
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:08.360
and I need to make a decision.

895
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:10.760
So which one am I going to decide

896
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:12.560
so I can get out of this bad feeling

897
00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:14.480
if I have sadness?

898
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:16.120
Great, would do I not know?

899
00:35:16.120 --> 00:35:17.960
Okay, now I have to go figure that out.

900
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:19.920
Great, I have something to do.

901
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:23.920
And so like you can, I think these are like mental models

902
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:28.920
around using emotions to fuel the behavior,

903
00:35:29.600 --> 00:35:32.440
the behaviors that you want.

904
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:34.720
I didn't want to say a word during that

905
00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:37.800
because I think what you're talking about is,

906
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.800
so as you're talking, I'm trying to map my fear

907
00:35:43.640 --> 00:35:46.320
about people not being able to make the change.

908
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:51.320
And the more I think about it, the more I think this boils

909
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:53.360
down to people feel the way that they don't want to feel

910
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.240
and they don't know how to handle that.

911
00:35:55.240 --> 00:35:56.080
Yeah.

912
00:35:56.080 --> 00:35:59.240
And you just, without me even thinking to ask you,

913
00:35:59.240 --> 00:36:03.080
you were going through how to deal with different emotions

914
00:36:03.080 --> 00:36:05.880
and by having a plan, by having a procedure,

915
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:09.320
which I think you're going to call operationalizing,

916
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:10.920
then you know what to do.

917
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:13.240
Oh, when I encounter sadness, then I do this

918
00:36:13.240 --> 00:36:15.200
when I encounter anxiety, then I do this.

919
00:36:15.200 --> 00:36:18.480
And so it's a very action oriented plan.

920
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.200
So I want to plan to flag in that

921
00:36:20.200 --> 00:36:22.200
and then I want to follow up with how one goes

922
00:36:22.200 --> 00:36:24.080
about operationalizing something.

923
00:36:24.080 --> 00:36:25.240
Okay, so I'm going to lay out a thesis

924
00:36:25.240 --> 00:36:26.600
you can push back or whatever.

925
00:36:27.600 --> 00:36:32.840
People, one of the things that you and I have both said historically

926
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:37.080
that I think is maybe the most powerful thing we will ever say

927
00:36:37.080 --> 00:36:38.800
and everything after that is just what you do

928
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:40.280
once you get over that.

929
00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:42.440
Your life is an exact reflection of your choices.

930
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:43.280
You were not a victim.

931
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.720
And even if you are, it does not help you to think that way.

932
00:36:45.720 --> 00:36:47.560
You have to break through that.

933
00:36:47.560 --> 00:36:51.080
And one of the intros of this episode that I considered

934
00:36:51.080 --> 00:36:55.720
was that every day each of us has to make a choice

935
00:36:55.720 --> 00:36:58.840
whether we are going to play the victim or play the game.

936
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:00.840
And if you're going to play the game, play the win.

937
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:02.920
It's the only thing that makes sense.

938
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:07.840
But that is a negative emotions can be so gnarly

939
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.280
that we need to make it somebody else's fault.

940
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:12.360
That to point all 10 fingers back at us.

941
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.280
And this is one of the things to get hired at impact theory.

942
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:16.280
You're going to be asked a question

943
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:19.640
along the lines of something horrible happens to you.

944
00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:20.880
How many fingers go outwards

945
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:22.560
and how many fingers point back at you?

946
00:37:22.560 --> 00:37:24.640
And the punchline is, if all 10 are not coming

947
00:37:24.640 --> 00:37:27.960
right back at you, it's just disempowering.

948
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.760
It doesn't mean that bad things don't happen.

949
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.960
Nothing you can do about a tornado, et cetera, et cetera.

950
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:36.720
But still to realize that you can make different choices

951
00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:39.880
and get a different outcome, but people don't do that.

952
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:40.560
A lot.

953
00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:44.560
Because to do that, if you don't have the right frame of reference,

954
00:37:44.560 --> 00:37:46.480
if you haven't leaned on the right traits,

955
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:49.200
if you aren't building yourself a steam around the right thing,

956
00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:53.120
in that moment to say that it's your fault, fault, fault,

957
00:37:53.120 --> 00:37:55.000
is just emotionally devastating.

958
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:57.920
And people have not operationalized their encounter

959
00:37:57.920 --> 00:37:59.000
with negative emotions.

960
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.480
And therefore, they will do anything they have to do

961
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.960
completely unconsciously to not feel that way.

962
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:09.080
Now, if that is doing drugs, they'll do drugs.

963
00:38:09.080 --> 00:38:11.720
If that's drinking masturbation, cheating, whatever,

964
00:38:11.720 --> 00:38:13.600
they will do all of it.

965
00:38:13.600 --> 00:38:16.400
But it really boils down to what's your relationship

966
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.800
with your emotion, not a push as farther

967
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:23.720
and to really make clear what I think.

968
00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:26.000
I don't think emotions are objectively real.

969
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:29.320
I don't think that people ought to believe an emotion.

970
00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:32.040
I think people think because they feel it,

971
00:38:32.040 --> 00:38:34.640
it is the right reaction to objective truth,

972
00:38:34.640 --> 00:38:37.760
rather than a subjective reaction to perception.

973
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.160
And if you can understand that all of your emotions

974
00:38:40.160 --> 00:38:42.840
are a subjective reaction to perception,

975
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:45.560
that you can take control of that, that you can reframe things,

976
00:38:45.560 --> 00:38:47.040
you can have a different emotion.

977
00:38:47.040 --> 00:38:49.480
And now, in that moment, instead of doing something

978
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:51.240
that moves you away from your goals,

979
00:38:51.240 --> 00:38:52.480
you can replace it with something

980
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:54.640
that moves you towards your goals.

981
00:38:54.640 --> 00:38:58.200
Okay, so that's my thesis as I really think

982
00:38:58.200 --> 00:39:01.480
about boiling it down to what messes people up.

983
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:04.280
It's that, if I'm right about that,

984
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:07.200
how do you operationalize anything?

985
00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:08.640
Like, what does that mean?

986
00:39:08.640 --> 00:39:12.400
Because I have a feeling, the thing that makes you phenomenal

987
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:17.400
is the ability to operationalize everything.

988
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:22.560
So, if I love this, the conversation, just a side note.

989
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:29.200
So, in my opinion, a lot of things,

990
00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:33.160
even huge departments, practices and business and medicine

991
00:39:33.160 --> 00:39:35.720
and everything come down to learning and communication.

992
00:39:36.720 --> 00:39:39.960
And so, let's define terms.

993
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:43.680
So, learning is same condition, new behavior.

994
00:39:43.680 --> 00:39:46.640
So, to the point, I felt sad last time,

995
00:39:46.640 --> 00:39:49.480
I learned this new thing from this podcast on impact theory,

996
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:51.720
which is, okay, if I feel sad, then it means that,

997
00:39:51.720 --> 00:39:54.880
I don't see an option, which means I need to get more

998
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:56.560
education or knowledge on the subject

999
00:39:56.560 --> 00:39:57.440
so that I can figure out to do.

1000
00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:00.160
Well, at least deciding that I need to learn more

1001
00:40:00.160 --> 00:40:01.760
gives me the next step that I need to do,

1002
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:03.240
and boom, I'm not sad.

1003
00:40:03.240 --> 00:40:04.960
And so, you've been sad before,

1004
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:07.800
and then it took you five days to get out of it,

1005
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.400
and you're sad now, and it takes you five minutes

1006
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:12.000
to get out of it, same condition, new behavior.

1007
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:12.840
So, you learned.

1008
00:40:13.600 --> 00:40:16.400
And so, if we go one degree, move from that,

1009
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:19.560
and I'm gonna circle back to the original point,

1010
00:40:19.560 --> 00:40:22.520
if we think about intelligence, right?

1011
00:40:22.520 --> 00:40:24.040
Like, what is intelligence?

1012
00:40:24.040 --> 00:40:26.120
As I define it from an operational perspective,

1013
00:40:26.120 --> 00:40:27.760
it's rate of learning, right?

1014
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.240
So, somebody who learns really slowly is less intelligent,

1015
00:40:30.240 --> 00:40:32.400
someone who learns really quickly is more intelligent.

1016
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.040
But that means intelligence is just a rate.

1017
00:40:34.040 --> 00:40:36.800
It's a measurement of how quickly you change your behavior

1018
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:38.160
in the same condition.

1019
00:40:38.160 --> 00:40:41.560
And so, if you continue to listen to podcasts,

1020
00:40:41.560 --> 00:40:45.080
and you're wake up in the same exact conditions every day,

1021
00:40:45.080 --> 00:40:46.400
and your behavior does not change,

1022
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:47.800
it means you learned nothing,

1023
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:50.320
which means you are not as smart as you think you are.

1024
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.640
But it also means that you can influence,

1025
00:40:52.640 --> 00:40:54.360
and have a direct influence on your intelligence,

1026
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:57.200
by increasing or decreasing the time it takes you

1027
00:40:57.200 --> 00:40:59.960
to actually act on the knowledge you have

1028
00:40:59.960 --> 00:41:02.000
when the same condition presents itself.

1029
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:03.960
And so, for me, that's incredibly empowering,

1030
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:05.440
because it's like, I can be smarter

1031
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:07.120
by simply hearing what this person says,

1032
00:41:07.120 --> 00:41:08.000
getting the same condition,

1033
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.000
and then immediately changing my behavior.

1034
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.600
Wow, that's cool.

1035
00:41:12.600 --> 00:41:15.680
And so, that then, like from the fingers perspective,

1036
00:41:15.680 --> 00:41:18.440
it's like, okay, all 10 fingers are on me

1037
00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:21.760
of how I can influence my own surroundings

1038
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:23.320
and do the things that I want to do.

1039
00:41:24.720 --> 00:41:28.400
So, to circle back to the original question,

1040
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.080
I think, which I probably dovetailed a little bit,

1041
00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:33.160
was, can you repeat it one more time?

1042
00:41:33.160 --> 00:41:34.800
How do you operationalize things?

1043
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:36.640
What does that mean?

1044
00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:37.560
So, okay.

1045
00:41:37.560 --> 00:41:38.640
So, it's breaking down,

1046
00:41:38.640 --> 00:41:41.360
what does this word mean from a behavior perspective?

1047
00:41:43.520 --> 00:41:44.720
Real quick, guys, you guys already know

1048
00:41:44.720 --> 00:41:46.680
that I don't run any ads on this,

1049
00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:48.000
and I don't sell anything.

1050
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:49.840
And so, the only ask that I can ever have,

1051
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:51.280
are you guys, that you help me spread the words

1052
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:52.720
so we can have more entrepreneurs,

1053
00:41:52.720 --> 00:41:54.440
make more money, feed their families,

1054
00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:56.840
make better products, and have better experiences

1055
00:41:56.840 --> 00:41:58.440
for their employees and customers.

1056
00:41:58.440 --> 00:41:59.560
And the only way we do that,

1057
00:41:59.560 --> 00:42:02.880
is if you can rate and review and share this podcast.

1058
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:04.240
So, the single thing that I have to do,

1059
00:42:04.240 --> 00:42:05.440
is you can just leave a review,

1060
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:07.400
but take a 10 seconds or one type of a thug

1061
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:08.680
that would mean the absolute world to me,

1062
00:42:08.680 --> 00:42:11.680
and more importantly, it may change the world to someone else.

1063
00:42:12.680 --> 00:42:14.800
So, it's really hard.

1064
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.040
Like, I think the reason that so many people are confused

1065
00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:20.040
and they have a hard time remembering things

1066
00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:22.080
and understanding complex topics is because

1067
00:42:22.080 --> 00:42:23.320
they have lots of words in their heads

1068
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:25.000
that they have not defined.

1069
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.200
I really mean, like, I truly believe that,

1070
00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:28.240
which is why every book that I have

1071
00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:29.920
begins with the definition of terms,

1072
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:31.280
which is like, this is what an offer is.

1073
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.520
This is what a lead is, right?

1074
00:42:33.040 --> 00:42:35.320
These are what this means, right?

1075
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:37.920
And until you have that,

1076
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.320
you're basically making face noise, right?

1077
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:41.920
Like, if I say leads and you perceive that

1078
00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:42.960
as something different,

1079
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:44.520
then we can't actually have a conversation

1080
00:42:44.520 --> 00:42:46.160
because we're not talking about the same thing.

1081
00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:47.720
And so, a lot of people have a lot of words,

1082
00:42:47.720 --> 00:42:50.000
they've heard other people say that they not along to,

1083
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:52.200
and people are like, make sense and they say, yes.

1084
00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:54.600
But when someone says, does that make sense?

1085
00:42:54.600 --> 00:42:57.560
We have been trained as humans to nod and say, yes.

1086
00:42:57.560 --> 00:42:58.480
It doesn't mean it makes sense.

1087
00:42:58.480 --> 00:42:59.680
It means that when we have that cue,

1088
00:42:59.680 --> 00:43:01.320
that's the behavior we do, right?

1089
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:02.960
Because we know that we get punished when we say no,

1090
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.000
because then it becomes all this big thing,

1091
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.520
and then you dovetail into all these other conversations

1092
00:43:07.520 --> 00:43:08.920
and you get punished for it, right?

1093
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:10.400
And so, you learn what's reinforced.

1094
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:11.960
And most people say, make sense,

1095
00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:13.160
and then you say, which it means,

1096
00:43:13.160 --> 00:43:14.240
nod your head when I say this,

1097
00:43:14.240 --> 00:43:15.800
and you're like, I nod my head.

1098
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:16.800
Great, and then you move on.

1099
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:18.280
And so, I think that's why a lot of people don't learn

1100
00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:20.480
because they actually don't know what the words mean.

1101
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:22.720
And so, to operationalize something,

1102
00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:24.600
it is simply going back down to,

1103
00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:29.280
when I say I'm confident, what does that mean?

1104
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:30.360
It's not a feeling.

1105
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:32.440
It's not what other people say about you.

1106
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:33.640
None of that is measurable.

1107
00:43:33.640 --> 00:43:35.520
Like, what is measurable?

1108
00:43:35.520 --> 00:43:36.840
It's a percentage of likelihood

1109
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:39.440
that what I say will happen, will happen.

1110
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:40.960
Period, that's what it is.

1111
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:42.920
Now, what you'll also find is that there are a lot of words

1112
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:44.080
that mean the same thing.

1113
00:43:44.080 --> 00:43:45.960
And that doesn't mean that the concept wrong.

1114
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:48.400
It's just the fact that English or whatever language

1115
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.200
you learn usually has a melting pot of like,

1116
00:43:50.200 --> 00:43:51.920
well, this is the version of the Nordic word,

1117
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:53.160
and this is the version of the Hindi word,

1118
00:43:53.160 --> 00:43:55.160
and this is the version of the French word.

1119
00:43:55.160 --> 00:43:56.240
And they're all in the lexicon,

1120
00:43:56.240 --> 00:43:58.720
but most of them, more or less, mean the same thing.

1121
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:00.360
And so getting away from words,

1122
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.520
meaning what the dictionary tells us it means,

1123
00:44:03.520 --> 00:44:04.560
and just say, what does it mean to me

1124
00:44:04.560 --> 00:44:06.160
in terms of what I can do with it?

1125
00:44:06.160 --> 00:44:08.840
Then I think it makes navigating life a lot simpler

1126
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:11.200
because the only thing we can control is our behavior.

1127
00:44:11.200 --> 00:44:12.960
And so if we define the words

1128
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:15.120
in terms of what we do about it,

1129
00:44:15.120 --> 00:44:17.640
then these all become things that we can control

1130
00:44:17.640 --> 00:44:20.560
and can change our lives with.

1131
00:44:22.120 --> 00:44:24.920
Yeah, okay, that I think is super important.

1132
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.480
One of the things that changed my life

1133
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:31.120
and the easiest way to explain it is how it manifested

1134
00:44:31.120 --> 00:44:33.840
in my marriage was to define terms.

1135
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:37.160
And because what Lisa and I were realizing is

1136
00:44:37.160 --> 00:44:38.400
we're saying the same words,

1137
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:40.560
but we don't mean the same thing.

1138
00:44:40.560 --> 00:44:43.080
And that's creating a lot of confusion.

1139
00:44:43.080 --> 00:44:44.600
Now, as a leader in a business,

1140
00:44:44.600 --> 00:44:46.920
this becomes problematic often

1141
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:48.040
because you will say something

1142
00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:50.040
that to yourself evident exactly what it means.

1143
00:44:50.040 --> 00:44:51.680
People do the, it doesn't make sense.

1144
00:44:51.680 --> 00:44:55.200
Yeah, no, they do that a lot.

1145
00:44:55.200 --> 00:44:58.520
And so Lisa and I started defining really simple words.

1146
00:44:58.520 --> 00:45:01.120
Like when you say you promise, what does that mean?

1147
00:45:01.120 --> 00:45:03.920
You say something's important, what does that mean?

1148
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:05.160
And so like in our marriage,

1149
00:45:05.160 --> 00:45:06.280
if we use the word important,

1150
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:07.320
it means stop whatever you're doing.

1151
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:08.480
I don't care if you're with the president

1152
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:09.320
of the United States,

1153
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:10.320
you will immediately get up,

1154
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:11.960
leave that and deal with the saying

1155
00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:13.920
because it's important.

1156
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.040
So if it is meaningful, but not important,

1157
00:45:17.040 --> 00:45:18.280
then fair enough, it's meaningful,

1158
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:19.360
but I'm in the middle of something,

1159
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:20.200
I'll get to it later.

1160
00:45:20.200 --> 00:45:21.920
Doesn't mean that it's not something

1161
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.880
that needs to be addressed, but it isn't important.

1162
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:26.560
Cool, now we have a shared lexicon.

1163
00:45:26.560 --> 00:45:27.560
Yeah.

1164
00:45:27.560 --> 00:45:32.560
And I think that going back to my thesis around emotions,

1165
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.840
emotions are the subconscious's way

1166
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:38.240
of communicating to the conscious mind.

1167
00:45:38.240 --> 00:45:40.960
So when you think about, and this isn't,

1168
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:42.200
I mean, this is me making things up,

1169
00:45:42.200 --> 00:45:45.080
this is me connecting dots that behavioral science

1170
00:45:45.080 --> 00:45:46.400
has made abundantly clear,

1171
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:48.000
but I am admittedly connecting dots.

1172
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:50.600
But Lisa Feldman-Barritt wrote a whole book

1173
00:45:50.600 --> 00:45:52.080
on this called How Emotions Are Made.

1174
00:45:52.080 --> 00:45:54.400
So this is not me just shooting from the hip,

1175
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:56.000
but I'm putting my own words to it.

1176
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.560
The way that you feel is the subconscious mind,

1177
00:46:00.560 --> 00:46:05.560
which can process information faster and faster,

1178
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:06.760
as they say.

1179
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:10.440
So it's a much larger number of data points,

1180
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:12.880
process much quicker, but when you bring it

1181
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:13.800
into the conscious mind,

1182
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:15.400
you're going to think either in images

1183
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:18.800
or in words, most people probably think primarily in words.

1184
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:22.040
And so it really narrows down your ability

1185
00:46:22.040 --> 00:46:24.440
to deal with a lot of information.

1186
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:28.360
And because emotions are coming from the limbic brain,

1187
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:31.560
which we had before we had the higher level cognition

1188
00:46:31.560 --> 00:46:33.560
that humans have that other animals don't have,

1189
00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:34.720
you're going to be in a situation where,

1190
00:46:34.720 --> 00:46:36.640
oh, snake, and you just jump,

1191
00:46:36.640 --> 00:46:38.520
you just have the emotion and you move.

1192
00:46:40.040 --> 00:46:42.480
Most people leave things there.

1193
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.680
And so they're never pulling that into the light to say,

1194
00:46:44.680 --> 00:46:47.040
ooh, why do I feel so uncomfortable in this moment?

1195
00:46:47.040 --> 00:46:48.040
What is it?

1196
00:46:48.040 --> 00:46:50.160
And if they would take the time to define

1197
00:46:50.160 --> 00:46:51.600
what the discomfort is,

1198
00:46:51.600 --> 00:46:54.440
then they might be able to operationalize the response

1199
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:57.120
that they should have to this predicated on,

1200
00:46:57.120 --> 00:46:59.800
at least from my perspective, what's your goal?

1201
00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:02.120
So I feel some kind of way, but I have a goal.

1202
00:47:02.120 --> 00:47:03.960
My goal makes demands, which is something

1203
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:05.680
I don't think people think about very often,

1204
00:47:05.680 --> 00:47:07.760
to achieve your goal, just, hey, there's physics to it.

1205
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.080
So certain things will move you towards your goal

1206
00:47:10.080 --> 00:47:11.360
and certain things won't.

1207
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:14.000
So my goal makes demands, but I feel some kind of way

1208
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:15.840
that make me want to move in the opposite direction

1209
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:17.720
of the demands that my goals make.

1210
00:47:17.720 --> 00:47:21.240
So now, using your words, I have to operationalize my encounter

1211
00:47:21.240 --> 00:47:26.080
with this emotion, define it, define a response,

1212
00:47:26.080 --> 00:47:29.640
and then actually adhere to that response

1213
00:47:29.640 --> 00:47:32.400
in order to move towards my goals.

1214
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:37.120
And the moment where you pull the emotion

1215
00:47:37.120 --> 00:47:39.840
into the spotlight of your conscious attention

1216
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:43.400
and define it in a really simple way,

1217
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:46.640
I think it's where the vast majority of humanity get lost.

1218
00:47:46.640 --> 00:47:49.160
So I do something called impact through university

1219
00:47:49.160 --> 00:47:51.400
and I answer some of the same questions over and over

1220
00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:53.280
and over, and they often have to do with that moment.

1221
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.360
Somebody does not understand their own emotions

1222
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:59.760
and therefore they cannot operationalize the next move.

1223
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:02.320
So much to say, I will keep it short.

1224
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:06.120
So in reference back to what I was talking about

1225
00:48:06.120 --> 00:48:07.920
with sadness and anxiety and patience,

1226
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.840
like these are all, patience is more of a behavior.

1227
00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:14.440
Sadness is a feeling that, and then how do we translate that,

1228
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:16.080
right?

1229
00:48:16.080 --> 00:48:18.600
I want to be clear that I use those terms

1230
00:48:18.600 --> 00:48:23.200
because I want to meet people where they're at.

1231
00:48:23.200 --> 00:48:25.960
Me personally, and if you look at it

1232
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:29.200
from the behavioral science perspective,

1233
00:48:29.200 --> 00:48:31.240
you have stimulus and you have response.

1234
00:48:31.240 --> 00:48:35.640
What happens in the box of what this person feels?

1235
00:48:35.640 --> 00:48:39.240
Like if I hold up a red flash card to a random person

1236
00:48:39.240 --> 00:48:43.640
and then I slap them, and then I hold the red flash card again,

1237
00:48:43.640 --> 00:48:46.120
like all of a sudden some of them might feel anger,

1238
00:48:46.120 --> 00:48:47.520
some of them might feel fear.

1239
00:48:47.520 --> 00:48:49.960
Like what they feel when they see the stimulus

1240
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:52.920
which I've now paired with a response, right,

1241
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:54.000
is gonna be different.

1242
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:58.600
And so I think a lot of effort goes into people

1243
00:48:58.600 --> 00:49:02.600
and even people in our world trying to help people

1244
00:49:02.600 --> 00:49:05.480
describe their feelings, talk through things, blah, blah,

1245
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:09.560
and I just genuinely think that it's a waste of time

1246
00:49:09.560 --> 00:49:13.520
because not who cares, but why does it matter?

1247
00:49:14.520 --> 00:49:18.120
Because you can do it when you're sad,

1248
00:49:18.120 --> 00:49:19.320
you can do it when you're angry,

1249
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:20.840
you can do it when you're fearful.

1250
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:24.080
And again, to the point is if 100 people more find out

1251
00:49:24.080 --> 00:49:25.280
about the thing that I'm trying to sell

1252
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:26.720
or whatever I'm trying to do,

1253
00:49:26.720 --> 00:49:29.000
then I'll have a greater percentage likelihood

1254
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:31.120
that I will get this outcome.

1255
00:49:31.120 --> 00:49:31.960
That's it.

1256
00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:32.800
And I think a lot of people,

1257
00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:34.960
they just get into this cycle of trying to analyze

1258
00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:36.120
their feelings and then they're like,

1259
00:49:36.120 --> 00:49:38.200
oh, it's because I had this trauma when I was a kid

1260
00:49:38.200 --> 00:49:40.200
and you know what, because my dad didn't hug me enough

1261
00:49:40.200 --> 00:49:42.240
and like probably, it's like the because

1262
00:49:42.240 --> 00:49:44.760
for most people's explanation is irrelevant.

1263
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:47.040
Because I get, like I had a podcast question

1264
00:49:47.040 --> 00:49:48.800
the other day that asked them,

1265
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:53.120
do you feel like a trauma is something that

1266
00:49:53.120 --> 00:49:55.080
creates success later in life

1267
00:49:55.080 --> 00:49:56.400
among entrepreneurs, blah, blah, blah.

1268
00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:59.360
And I really thought about it and I was like,

1269
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:02.920
I think people suffer and some people become successful.

1270
00:50:06.040 --> 00:50:09.440
So do I think that suffering creates success?

1271
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:11.480
No, I think that everyone suffers

1272
00:50:11.600 --> 00:50:12.640
and some of them become successful

1273
00:50:12.640 --> 00:50:14.560
and then they attribute their success

1274
00:50:14.560 --> 00:50:16.800
to make it feel worth it

1275
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:18.120
to have gone through that suffering

1276
00:50:18.120 --> 00:50:19.440
because they have an outcome.

1277
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:22.560
But I don't think that they're related in any way.

1278
00:50:22.560 --> 00:50:25.200
Because like you were successful because you did the thing.

1279
00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:27.160
How you thought about it is completely irrelevant

1280
00:50:27.160 --> 00:50:29.240
and I just think that there's so much effort

1281
00:50:29.240 --> 00:50:31.360
that gets put into that conversation,

1282
00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:34.160
which is why I have really contrary views around

1283
00:50:34.160 --> 00:50:35.960
like therapy and things like that.

1284
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:38.800
But I think like if you keep opening a wound,

1285
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:40.040
like what does it help you?

1286
00:50:42.160 --> 00:50:44.680
I don't know, like you still didn't make the calls.

1287
00:50:44.680 --> 00:50:47.800
So like let's create an environment

1288
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:49.960
where it's more likely that you do the calls

1289
00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:51.240
that you need to make.

1290
00:50:51.240 --> 00:50:53.120
And it just, it simplifies the variables

1291
00:50:53.120 --> 00:50:54.320
that we can control.

1292
00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:57.840
Cause no one know, like even adding the because

1293
00:50:57.840 --> 00:50:59.520
to things like I did this because it's like,

1294
00:50:59.520 --> 00:51:02.440
you don't even know why you're doing what you're doing.

1295
00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:05.560
And so when people are like, Tom,

1296
00:51:05.560 --> 00:51:06.920
what's your number one reason for success?

1297
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:08.720
We're making it up.

1298
00:51:08.720 --> 00:51:10.080
We're making up our response.

1299
00:51:10.080 --> 00:51:10.920
I mean, it's what it is.

1300
00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:13.040
There's a hundred things, a zillion things.

1301
00:51:13.040 --> 00:51:14.160
I don't know.

1302
00:51:14.160 --> 00:51:16.640
Like is it because my dad didn't hug me enough?

1303
00:51:16.640 --> 00:51:18.360
Is it because my mom, like who knows?

1304
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:19.320
Maybe if he would have been president,

1305
00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:20.320
it would have been fine.

1306
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:21.680
Like it could be completely irrelevant,

1307
00:51:21.680 --> 00:51:24.000
but we just choose to give this thing

1308
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:25.400
that some percentage of the audience then says,

1309
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:27.800
oh, that's like me and maybe then I can be successful too.

1310
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:28.640
And that's fine.

1311
00:51:28.640 --> 00:51:32.720
But I think the boiling it down to the absolute basics

1312
00:51:32.720 --> 00:51:34.560
or not even basics, the absolute truths of it

1313
00:51:34.560 --> 00:51:37.640
are that there's a stimulus and there's a response.

1314
00:51:37.640 --> 00:51:40.600
What happens in the box inside of your head does not matter.

1315
00:51:40.600 --> 00:51:42.560
If you respond a certain way, you have learned.

1316
00:51:44.560 --> 00:51:46.360
And if you continue to see the same stimulus

1317
00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:47.680
and you don't respond the way you want to,

1318
00:51:47.680 --> 00:51:49.080
you have not learned.

1319
00:51:49.080 --> 00:51:50.000
So you need to learn.

1320
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:54.640
I love how direct and simple that is

1321
00:51:54.640 --> 00:51:57.400
C-A-Red card, get slapped, C-A-Red card, duck.

1322
00:51:57.400 --> 00:51:58.880
Yeah, you learned.

1323
00:51:58.880 --> 00:51:59.720
Or block.

1324
00:51:59.720 --> 00:52:00.560
Right.

1325
00:52:00.560 --> 00:52:01.400
Even better.

1326
00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:02.240
Right.

1327
00:52:02.240 --> 00:52:03.080
You have reemptively slapped.

1328
00:52:03.080 --> 00:52:06.720
And if I have to show the flashcard to you 7, 10, 12 times,

1329
00:52:06.720 --> 00:52:08.600
the person I showed to once and then ducks the second time

1330
00:52:08.600 --> 00:52:11.360
is smarter, more intelligent than the person

1331
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:13.240
has to show it to 10 times before they react

1332
00:52:13.240 --> 00:52:17.320
in a different way than standing there and getting slapped.

1333
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:19.040
Dude, I love that.

1334
00:52:19.040 --> 00:52:23.680
I will say for all the people that I,

1335
00:52:23.680 --> 00:52:27.360
because the people that I have, maybe I

1336
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:29.880
glom onto because of my own hat.

1337
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.760
Here's me making up a reason that I've

1338
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:34.840
gone onto because of my own sort of the journey

1339
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:36.960
that I've had to go on with the thing I've had to deal with

1340
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.960
is that I think where people fall down because you are right.

1341
00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:43.760
There is no, in no uncertain terms, if upon stimulus,

1342
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.200
you do the right thing for goal attainment.

1343
00:52:46.200 --> 00:52:47.720
You will attain your goal.

1344
00:52:47.720 --> 00:52:50.200
Like that's just how it works.

1345
00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:53.400
But then the question becomes, why do the fast, fast, fast, fast?

1346
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:55.480
Majority of people never reach their goals.

1347
00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:58.240
And I think it's because they're not able to either,

1348
00:52:58.240 --> 00:52:59.440
because either will work.

1349
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:03.160
They're not able to either stop caring about what the reason is.

1350
00:53:03.160 --> 00:53:05.960
Or they never take the time to figure out the reason.

1351
00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:08.360
Now, given that I think most people struggle

1352
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:10.320
because they just don't have clarity,

1353
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:13.120
I do think people are going to need to,

1354
00:53:13.120 --> 00:53:15.760
they might not need to understand why they feel that way,

1355
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:18.440
but they're going to need the very thing that leaves them

1356
00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:20.120
uncertain about why they feel that way

1357
00:53:20.120 --> 00:53:21.440
is the thing that leaves them uncertain

1358
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:23.000
about what they want to do with their life

1359
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:24.840
or how to achieve what they want to do.

1360
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:27.320
OK, I really, I love this.

1361
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:30.200
OK, so the first part of the statement

1362
00:53:30.200 --> 00:53:33.200
was people aren't doing the thing, and then it was because,

1363
00:53:33.200 --> 00:53:34.960
and then the second part of the statement,

1364
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:39.160
I would posit that with the because I would put,

1365
00:53:39.160 --> 00:53:42.360
the reason they're not doing the thing that they want to be doing

1366
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.520
is because they've been rewarded for doing

1367
00:53:44.520 --> 00:53:46.720
what they're currently doing in the past.

1368
00:53:46.720 --> 00:53:48.680
And so all they're doing is continuing to do.

1369
00:53:48.680 --> 00:53:51.440
They have learned works.

1370
00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:53.280
And so it's like if you are continually rewarded

1371
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:55.960
because there's a reason that you do what you do,

1372
00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:57.960
which is that you have been trained to do it.

1373
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:03.240
Now, train is a, you know, the environment can train you,

1374
00:54:03.240 --> 00:54:05.360
which is what most of us switch to over time.

1375
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:07.000
You have an external stimuli that wants

1376
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.240
to pair a new behavior with a stimulus.

1377
00:54:09.240 --> 00:54:10.840
Right, if you want to teach someone to duck, right,

1378
00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:13.480
you show the red card and eventually they learn, right?

1379
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:15.880
But at a certain point, once you do the red card,

1380
00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:19.080
and then eventually you pair the red card with a fist,

1381
00:54:19.080 --> 00:54:23.160
then all of a sudden the person gets into fighting, right?

1382
00:54:23.160 --> 00:54:25.520
And then you don't need to pair that anymore

1383
00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:27.800
because the environment will self-reinforce

1384
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:29.480
and reward the behavior of ducking

1385
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.400
and will punish if they don't duck, right?

1386
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:34.600
And so if you just think about that as like a really simplistic

1387
00:54:34.600 --> 00:54:37.320
microcosm of how we learn thousands of things,

1388
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:42.320
like even the concept of speech is a million reinforcement points

1389
00:54:43.520 --> 00:54:45.560
from the time a baby is alive, right?

1390
00:54:45.560 --> 00:54:48.000
So if you think about a baby as stimulus response,

1391
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:52.320
so they're alive, they make noise, reward.

1392
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.120
They're here, right, attention, affection, approval, right?

1393
00:54:55.120 --> 00:54:56.320
Reward.

1394
00:54:56.320 --> 00:55:00.240
And then they make no noise and they make noise again, reward.

1395
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:02.400
Make noise again, reward, reward.

1396
00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:05.840
Then once they learn to make noise consistently,

1397
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:07.160
we then start rewarding.

1398
00:55:07.160 --> 00:55:09.200
Noise that sounds like words.

1399
00:55:09.200 --> 00:55:12.680
So it's like, like, yeah, right?

1400
00:55:12.680 --> 00:55:14.240
And they're like, whoa, it's like that's,

1401
00:55:14.240 --> 00:55:15.200
we're not gonna reward that one.

1402
00:55:15.200 --> 00:55:18.760
And then all of a sudden they start approximating the first word.

1403
00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:21.640
And so all of it is this continuous feedback loop

1404
00:55:21.640 --> 00:55:24.440
of me doing something and it having an extinction curve

1405
00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:28.120
because nothing happens or me doing something and I get a reward.

1406
00:55:28.120 --> 00:55:30.680
And so that is the, that is the micro.

1407
00:55:30.680 --> 00:55:32.600
And so you can apply that to everything that's happening.

1408
00:55:32.600 --> 00:55:34.760
So like when you, when you start seeing the world in that way,

1409
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:37.280
it becomes much simpler to navigate

1410
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:39.680
because you don't need to find the reason.

1411
00:55:39.680 --> 00:55:42.600
You just like, I do this because I've been rewarded in the past.

1412
00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:45.480
Cool. So I just need to reward myself

1413
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:47.000
in the present for this new behavior.

1414
00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:50.200
And like, how can I pair this new behavior with something good?

1415
00:55:50.200 --> 00:55:51.800
Which is like, as a total side note for me,

1416
00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:54.240
a little trick like when I go to the gym,

1417
00:55:54.240 --> 00:55:55.680
I always get a little shaky,

1418
00:55:55.680 --> 00:55:57.320
even though it's a little more expensive at the gym

1419
00:55:57.360 --> 00:55:58.960
because it's like a little reward that happens immediately

1420
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:01.000
after I left and I look forward to that.

1421
00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:02.560
And so it's just like little things that you can do

1422
00:56:02.560 --> 00:56:06.600
to reward yourself to, to hijack that cycle,

1423
00:56:06.600 --> 00:56:08.480
that changes behavior.

1424
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:10.560
And so it's like we want to change our behavior.

1425
00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:12.480
I think we have to define the terms of what behavior it is

1426
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:15.760
to begin with and how we define learning

1427
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:17.840
because that's all it is is you know, learning is pairing

1428
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:19.320
a stimulus with the response.

1429
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:21.360
And so if they want to learn things, that's what they have to do.

1430
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:23.640
All right, if so many people fail,

1431
00:56:23.640 --> 00:56:25.800
so many people have a victim mentality.

1432
00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:30.160
What reward are they getting that reinforces that?

1433
00:56:30.160 --> 00:56:31.240
So it could be that they're,

1434
00:56:31.240 --> 00:56:35.080
because a reinforcer can be both a more of a positive

1435
00:56:35.080 --> 00:56:36.360
or less of a negative.

1436
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:37.560
That's like if I remove a slap,

1437
00:56:37.560 --> 00:56:41.120
that's a reward in its own way or I add a positive.

1438
00:56:41.120 --> 00:56:43.360
And so they may be avoiding punishment

1439
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:44.880
in certain ways by staying in this place

1440
00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:47.040
because in the past,

1441
00:56:47.040 --> 00:56:48.520
because everything's extrapolation is from the past

1442
00:56:48.520 --> 00:56:49.560
in terms of how we see behavior

1443
00:56:49.560 --> 00:56:50.560
because that's our pattern, right?

1444
00:56:50.560 --> 00:56:53.240
Like we look back at what, like we use our history

1445
00:56:53.240 --> 00:56:55.640
to make predictions about what's going to happen

1446
00:56:55.640 --> 00:56:59.360
with when I, when I try to turn this door knob

1447
00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:01.680
to get into the room, I turn it

1448
00:57:01.680 --> 00:57:03.760
and I turn it because when I have turned door knobs

1449
00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:05.240
in the past, it worked.

1450
00:57:05.240 --> 00:57:06.480
And the first time I encountered a door,

1451
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:07.320
I was like, what do I do?

1452
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:08.680
Now what I probably did is I looked at somebody else

1453
00:57:08.680 --> 00:57:10.280
and when they turned it, the door opened.

1454
00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:11.720
So I know when I see this thing,

1455
00:57:11.720 --> 00:57:14.120
now if I made that thing solid and it can't be turned,

1456
00:57:14.120 --> 00:57:16.080
I would like, and then I would think

1457
00:57:16.080 --> 00:57:17.320
what other types of doors are there?

1458
00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:18.680
And then you'd be like, is there another handle

1459
00:57:18.680 --> 00:57:19.280
on this door, like,

1460
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:21.880
and so you go to secondary and tertiary behaviors,

1461
00:57:21.880 --> 00:57:23.680
whereas the most likely one that's going to work

1462
00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:24.880
is the first one we start with.

1463
00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:28.280
And so we have these behaviors that, let's say,

1464
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:30.240
laying on the couch and watching Netflix

1465
00:57:30.240 --> 00:57:31.320
has been rewarded.

1466
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:33.440
Watching Netflix is a rewarding experience.

1467
00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:35.840
It's, I mean, like, it's more positive

1468
00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:37.400
and it avoids negative.

1469
00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:39.440
But then you get into short-term and long-term

1470
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:40.760
reward and punishment, right?

1471
00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:42.680
Which is why it's harder,

1472
00:57:42.680 --> 00:57:44.440
which is why I think it's the meta skill,

1473
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:45.640
which is on top of those things,

1474
00:57:45.640 --> 00:57:48.120
which is that I know that I can delay a short-term

1475
00:57:48.120 --> 00:57:49.520
for a long-term payoff.

1476
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:53.640
And I think that's where the big leap has to happen.

1477
00:57:53.640 --> 00:57:56.720
Because if you can train yourself to know that, like,

1478
00:57:56.720 --> 00:57:58.800
I know that if I do one workout,

1479
00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:00.240
I'm not going to look different.

1480
00:58:00.240 --> 00:58:01.840
And I know if I do six workouts,

1481
00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:04.320
I'm still also probably not going to look different, right?

1482
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:06.760
But if I do 600 workouts, I probably will.

1483
00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:08.600
And as soon as you have that one first thing

1484
00:58:08.600 --> 00:58:09.840
where you had to delay gratification,

1485
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:11.120
you got a much bigger payoff,

1486
00:58:11.120 --> 00:58:13.720
you start to associate the behaviors

1487
00:58:13.720 --> 00:58:16.560
in while you're doing it with reward.

1488
00:58:16.560 --> 00:58:18.440
And so the difference between experts and beginners

1489
00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:20.680
is that experts find more ways to reward themselves

1490
00:58:20.680 --> 00:58:23.000
while they work on whatever the thing is.

1491
00:58:23.720 --> 00:58:25.680
And so it's not that they are more disciplined,

1492
00:58:25.680 --> 00:58:27.880
which is finally the full 360 on this,

1493
00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:30.640
is that experts are not more disciplined than you.

1494
00:58:30.640 --> 00:58:31.840
They've just found more ways to win.

1495
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:34.240
So how do we effectively take control

1496
00:58:34.240 --> 00:58:37.960
of the process of rewarding and punishing ourselves

1497
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:39.640
to keep us on track towards our goals?

1498
00:58:39.640 --> 00:58:42.920
I think being cognizant of it at the absolute base layer,

1499
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.080
you start to see the world through very different lens.

1500
00:58:46.080 --> 00:58:48.840
And you're like, okay, that was punishing, huh?

1501
00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:50.240
Like, that was rewarding.

1502
00:58:50.240 --> 00:58:51.360
Great, I'll do more of that.

1503
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:52.960
But then you start to think like, why do I do that?

1504
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:54.160
And you really start thinking about your like,

1505
00:58:54.160 --> 00:58:56.200
well, because it's sometimes it's so funny.

1506
00:58:56.200 --> 00:58:57.920
Like I'll have, because we, you know,

1507
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:00.600
we invest in buying products and whatnot.

1508
00:59:00.600 --> 00:59:02.160
And so I had two different products there

1509
00:59:02.160 --> 00:59:03.560
on the same category, because I like the category

1510
00:59:03.560 --> 00:59:04.560
that I was looking at.

1511
00:59:04.560 --> 00:59:06.720
And one of the products had a better result.

1512
00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:09.120
Like it had a better end outcome

1513
00:59:09.120 --> 00:59:10.600
when the customer uses it.

1514
00:59:10.600 --> 00:59:12.760
And the market leader, and this is who they were trying

1515
00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:16.120
to disrupt, had a slightly inferior result.

1516
00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:21.440
But it delivered the result almost instantly.

1517
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:23.960
And the other one took like five minutes.

1518
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:25.760
And this one was like five seconds.

1519
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:27.200
And the other one was objectively better.

1520
00:59:27.200 --> 00:59:29.480
Like even like science had had all the stats

1521
00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:31.280
and everything like it was objectively better.

1522
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:32.640
And they wanted me to invest in this company.

1523
00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:34.880
And they're like, we have a better product.

1524
00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:36.560
I was like, no, you have a better result.

1525
00:59:36.560 --> 00:59:38.360
You have a better product.

1526
00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:40.520
The reason these guys are still number one

1527
00:59:40.520 --> 00:59:43.960
is because latency matters more than intensity

1528
00:59:43.960 --> 00:59:44.800
when it comes to reward.

1529
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:46.040
The reason that a little icon on your phone

1530
00:59:46.040 --> 00:59:47.960
is because it's immediate, right?

1531
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:48.800
And then it goes away, right?

1532
00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:50.440
Like you have this immediate feedback loop,

1533
00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:53.480
whereas I don't know if you've heard this.

1534
00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:55.040
OK, so I'll, sorry.

1535
00:59:55.040 --> 00:59:55.880
I love this stuff.

1536
00:59:55.880 --> 00:59:59.440
So if you're trying to train a dog, right?

1537
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:02.320
There's this, I wish I could maybe send it off the show,

1538
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:04.400
but like a graph that shows how you can train a dog

1539
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:07.120
to sit or like a treat.

1540
01:00:07.120 --> 01:00:10.960
And so if you tell the dog the command

1541
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:13.160
and then you wait and you immediately reward it,

1542
01:00:13.160 --> 01:00:14.000
it learns faster.

1543
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:16.520
If you wait 30 seconds, it learns, you know,

1544
01:00:16.520 --> 01:00:19.160
it takes more tries to get it to learn.

1545
01:00:19.160 --> 01:00:26.080
After a minute, the dog's untrainable, a minute.

1546
01:00:26.080 --> 01:00:28.720
And so it doesn't know why it's being rewarded.

1547
01:00:28.720 --> 01:00:30.680
Now, the thing is, is it's not that you

1548
01:00:30.680 --> 01:00:34.000
aren't training the dog, because whenever you have some sort

1549
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:35.000
of reward, you're training it.

1550
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:36.400
You're just not training what you think you are.

1551
01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:37.960
So you have to look at what happened immediately before.

1552
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:40.800
You give the rotor to happen a minute later, right?

1553
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:42.640
And so we think, because it's like, it's

1554
01:00:42.640 --> 01:00:44.640
sat, I'm going to wait a minute and then give it the cookie.

1555
01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:46.000
But I'm not reinforcing the sitting.

1556
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:48.520
I'm reinforcing the thing they did right before they got the cookie.

1557
01:00:48.560 --> 01:00:53.520
And so as a zoom back out here, when we're thinking about,

1558
01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:54.800
like in the reason I brought up these two products,

1559
01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:59.600
was that the original product, the one that was the market

1560
01:00:59.600 --> 01:01:04.920
leader, was better because it gave even a smaller benefit

1561
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:06.320
but it gave it immediately.

1562
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:09.280
And so people will probably, it seems silly,

1563
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:11.240
but when you really try and be honest with yourself,

1564
01:01:11.240 --> 01:01:14.280
why do I go to this gym instead of that gym?

1565
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:15.320
Because I have a bunch of gym memberships.

1566
01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:16.680
I'm like, why do I, because I like to think about this.

1567
01:01:16.680 --> 01:01:18.160
I'm like, I'm not surprised about that.

1568
01:01:18.160 --> 01:01:19.320
I'm like, why do I go to this place?

1569
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:20.800
I'm like, because the other place has better equipment.

1570
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:23.880
And I'm like, the person at the front always says,

1571
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:27.240
hi, when I walk in, immediate.

1572
01:01:27.240 --> 01:01:29.560
Reinforcement for walking in the door.

1573
01:01:29.560 --> 01:01:32.000
And I was like, I think that's what it is.

1574
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:32.880
So I like it.

1575
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:35.160
Like when I come in, they always say, I have like a two minute

1576
01:01:35.160 --> 01:01:37.080
conversation and like, I look forward to that.

1577
01:01:37.080 --> 01:01:39.520
I drive 10 minutes further for that.

1578
01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:41.320
I'm like, how silly.

1579
01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:44.000
But when I think about it, I want to really honest with myself.

1580
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:46.880
And so to go back to the person who's on the couch,

1581
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.560
it's sometimes the rewards are minuscule.

1582
01:01:49.560 --> 01:01:51.160
And then when you name them, they feel a little bit less

1583
01:01:51.160 --> 01:01:51.880
powerful.

1584
01:01:51.880 --> 01:01:54.000
But it also means that you can say, how can I make another

1585
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:57.040
minuscule reward in another direction that gets me moving

1586
01:01:57.040 --> 01:01:58.760
towards my long-term goal?

1587
01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:01.680
And then I can kickstart that cycle where I start to learn

1588
01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:03.000
like a master does.

1589
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:05.400
Because masters enjoy love the process.

1590
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:07.160
It's like easy for a master to say, because you're

1591
01:02:07.160 --> 01:02:08.760
fucking good at it.

1592
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:10.000
Easy for you to say, right?

1593
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:13.120
Like when you're, like, I write my 19th draft of the book,

1594
01:02:13.120 --> 01:02:14.480
I've now written a decent amount.

1595
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:15.320
You know what I mean?

1596
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:16.520
I've spent a long time writing.

1597
01:02:16.520 --> 01:02:19.280
And so the act of writing itself is rewarding for me.

1598
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:21.760
Like, you must work so hard, which I do.

1599
01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:24.720
But it's not that I'm willpowering my way, the whole way

1600
01:02:24.720 --> 01:02:25.880
through, not always.

1601
01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:27.880
Of course, there's times where it's like not the most fun.

1602
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:31.760
But big picture, the process is rewarding.

1603
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:34.120
Because I've gotten good enough that it is rewarding.

1604
01:02:34.120 --> 01:02:37.800
And so the more ways you measure, the more ways you can win,

1605
01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:40.320
which is like one of our little monitors.

1606
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:42.120
And so it's like how many different ways can we measure

1607
01:02:42.120 --> 01:02:43.960
so that we can make progress on these little things

1608
01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:46.520
and have wins as quickly as possible in the direction

1609
01:02:46.520 --> 01:02:49.160
you're trying to go and then start the loop.

1610
01:02:49.160 --> 01:02:53.200
OK, so to say that really succinctly

1611
01:02:53.200 --> 01:02:55.600
to make sure I understand, no, no, no, the exploration

1612
01:02:55.600 --> 01:02:56.200
was amazing.

1613
01:02:56.200 --> 01:02:59.600
I just want to make sure that I understand it.

1614
01:02:59.600 --> 01:03:01.480
I think we've covered the reward part.

1615
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:06.640
So I'm going to do something measurable and see my growth.

1616
01:03:06.640 --> 01:03:08.680
And that starts a positive reinforcement loop

1617
01:03:08.680 --> 01:03:10.600
that's going to send me down the right path.

1618
01:03:10.600 --> 01:03:13.120
OK, so that makes all the sense in the world.

1619
01:03:13.120 --> 01:03:16.200
Proximity, the rate at which you get the reward

1620
01:03:16.200 --> 01:03:17.440
is really going to matter.

1621
01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:19.880
That's really interesting from a product perspective.

1622
01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:22.080
You're the first person I've ever heard talk about that.

1623
01:03:22.080 --> 01:03:23.360
Super interesting.

1624
01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:25.040
But now how do I punish myself?

1625
01:03:25.040 --> 01:03:27.840
Do I, like I'm a big believer that you need to punish yourself?

1626
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:29.960
But when I say that sentence out loud,

1627
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:33.480
I know what people hear and it feels icky and weird.

1628
01:03:33.480 --> 01:03:35.840
But it's been incredibly powerful for me.

1629
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:39.880
So do you believe in the power of self-ponishment?

1630
01:03:39.880 --> 01:03:41.560
And if you do, how far do we take it?

1631
01:03:41.560 --> 01:03:47.600
So I will just, just for sake of everyone,

1632
01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:49.600
I will just state this as my opinion.

1633
01:03:49.600 --> 01:03:50.600
And we'll just leave it at that.

1634
01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:55.600
So you have praise and you have punishment.

1635
01:03:55.600 --> 01:03:56.920
Or you can have reward and you have punishment,

1636
01:03:56.920 --> 01:03:59.920
whatever you want to call it.

1637
01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:02.520
Punishment is more effective to change behavior

1638
01:04:02.520 --> 01:04:04.160
in this short term.

1639
01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:05.280
Like if I hold a gun to somebody's head,

1640
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:07.400
I can immediately change behavior.

1641
01:04:07.400 --> 01:04:11.320
Reward is more powerful over the long term.

1642
01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:14.080
And so like if you look at an environment,

1643
01:04:14.080 --> 01:04:15.760
so we think we talk a lot about this,

1644
01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:17.640
that it was a dot com because it's kind of part of our mission

1645
01:04:17.640 --> 01:04:22.040
internally is to create a culture of reward and punishment.

1646
01:04:22.040 --> 01:04:23.400
And the way that we think about this

1647
01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:26.480
is if you have like, let's say Goldman Sachs or McKinsey,

1648
01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:28.200
some of these very big organizations that

1649
01:04:28.200 --> 01:04:29.920
attract some of the best and brightest

1650
01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:33.360
and are renowned for having relatively terrible or punishing

1651
01:04:33.360 --> 01:04:34.400
cultures, right?

1652
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:36.840
They work people to death and blah, blah, blah.

1653
01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:40.280
So what happens is if you put an animal in a cage

1654
01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:44.680
and they can escape, then they will revert to the loveliest effort.

1655
01:04:44.680 --> 01:04:47.200
So they will do as little as they can to not get punished.

1656
01:04:47.200 --> 01:04:49.520
And so then when you're in a punishing environment,

1657
01:04:49.520 --> 01:04:51.440
you all you have to do to get them to do more

1658
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:55.080
as you just raise the bar for what they have to loveliest effort

1659
01:04:55.080 --> 01:04:56.640
do to not get punished.

1660
01:04:56.640 --> 01:04:58.680
And so in an environment of high performers,

1661
01:04:58.680 --> 01:05:00.840
that gets everyone to raise the bar,

1662
01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:02.440
but then quickly burn out.

1663
01:05:02.440 --> 01:05:06.040
Now that model works if you have an endless supply of bodies.

1664
01:05:06.040 --> 01:05:07.800
But if you are the person who is being burned out,

1665
01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:10.800
then that works for two years or whatever.

1666
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:15.120
Praise, on the other hand, or reward can unlock,

1667
01:05:15.120 --> 01:05:17.880
in my opinion, discretionary effort.

1668
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:19.880
So the effort beyond the loveliest effort

1669
01:05:19.880 --> 01:05:22.000
required to keep your job and not get punished.

1670
01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:26.280
And so the issue is that the people who are the most able

1671
01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:27.800
are the ones who are able to work the least

1672
01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:29.160
and still keep their jobs.

1673
01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:33.400
But they're also the ones who get the absolute most upside on

1674
01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:37.400
if they work because they want to, not because they have to.

1675
01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:42.400
And so that is our thesis of how we try and build companies

1676
01:05:43.520 --> 01:05:45.240
at acquisition.com and we're not perfect.

1677
01:05:45.240 --> 01:05:46.960
We believe me, there are plenty of times

1678
01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:48.360
when I want to choose someone set off.

1679
01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:51.000
But we really try, I know my teams are nodding,

1680
01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:53.520
but we really put serious effort into saying like,

1681
01:05:55.120 --> 01:05:59.000
so let's say I find out the dog shits on the carpet

1682
01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:03.120
when I get home, I hit it, it doesn't learn.

1683
01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:05.400
All I'm doing is hitting a dog.

1684
01:06:06.120 --> 01:06:09.040
Like if it was less than if it was within 60 seconds

1685
01:06:09.040 --> 01:06:11.040
from the time that happened, it's not going to learn.

1686
01:06:11.040 --> 01:06:14.840
And so like if you know that and then you hit the dog anyways,

1687
01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:15.840
what does that make you?

1688
01:06:17.560 --> 01:06:18.920
Interesting, right?

1689
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:22.600
And so now obviously if we're like punishing ourselves

1690
01:06:22.600 --> 01:06:25.440
and whatnot that might be somewhat different

1691
01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:27.360
I'm talking about how we relate to others.

1692
01:06:29.040 --> 01:06:34.040
But you can either avoid punishment or you can seek reward.

1693
01:06:34.080 --> 01:06:37.360
And I think both of them are powerful motivators.

1694
01:06:37.360 --> 01:06:38.760
Avoiding punishment is powerful,

1695
01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:40.600
more powerful in the short term to change behavior.

1696
01:06:40.600 --> 01:06:43.400
It's faster, reward is more powerful in the long term

1697
01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:45.360
to keep behavior going.

1698
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:46.920
Because eventually you like kind of like

1699
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:48.760
heat on and get adaptation,

1700
01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:50.800
you get used to a punishment and then it no longer works.

1701
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:52.600
So you have to have, you have to increase the variety

1702
01:06:52.600 --> 01:06:54.280
and intensity of punishments in order for it

1703
01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:56.280
to continue to be effective.

1704
01:06:56.280 --> 01:06:58.280
Do you punish yourself?

1705
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:07.000
Honestly, not a ton.

1706
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:11.000
I have super high standards.

1707
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.000
But I don't know if I punish myself.

1708
01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:17.000
I don't know if I'm like Alex, you're a piece of shit.

1709
01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:20.000
I don't, not really.

1710
01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:23.000
Because I, you know, Laila and I are kind of said

1711
01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:24.000
on opposite sides of the book.

1712
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:27.000
Like I'm like some people have like a base of anxiety

1713
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:29.000
that they like work through.

1714
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:30.000
I don't come from that side.

1715
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:32.000
I come from probably like a base of laziness.

1716
01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:35.000
And just, you know, like, and that's why I have

1717
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:38.000
all these things to do stuff.

1718
01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:41.000
But punishment is like it's also just never been effective

1719
01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:42.000
for me.

1720
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:44.000
Like when I get punished, I want to just figure out

1721
01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:46.000
how to punishment and not do what they want me to do.

1722
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:49.000
Like when you use punishment to like train kid,

1723
01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:51.000
you get them to sneak out.

1724
01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:53.000
Right?

1725
01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:56.000
Like they just fight other ways to get out of the house quietly.

1726
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:58.000
They don't necessarily change the behavior,

1727
01:07:58.000 --> 01:07:59.000
but if you reward them for staying,

1728
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:01.000
then they never want to leave.

1729
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:02.000
That kind of idea.

1730
01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:04.000
The reason people leave when they're younger is because

1731
01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:06.000
there's more reward outside of the house and inside the house.

1732
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:08.000
And so if you want to fix a long term, make the word

1733
01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:11.000
for beings home more than leaving home.

1734
01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:12.000
It's interesting.

1735
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:15.000
So this is probably one where defining the term

1736
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:17.000
would be very meaningful.

1737
01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:20.000
I personally use what I call self punishment.

1738
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:21.000
Yeah.

1739
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.000
Now to me, self punishment is to force myself to acknowledge

1740
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:27.000
that I said I was going to do something that I did not do.

1741
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:29.000
That's normally where this will come from.

1742
01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:30.000
Interesting.

1743
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:31.000
I would call that stating the facts.

1744
01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:32.000
Interesting.

1745
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:33.000
I would call that punishing.

1746
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:36.000
And this is why it's important.

1747
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.000
So I understand why people always react so negatively

1748
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:45.000
when I say that you are missing out on an incredibly powerful tool

1749
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:47.000
if you don't punish yourself.

1750
01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:50.000
Now just to acknowledge, and you've said this as well,

1751
01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:53.000
we are all speaking from, this is what works with me.

1752
01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:55.000
So this is the experience that I've had.

1753
01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:56.000
For the comment section.

1754
01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:57.000
Exactly.

1755
01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:01.000
And there, so getting out of bed in 10 minutes or less

1756
01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:03.000
is, I struggle with it every day in my life.

1757
01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:06.000
It's hysterical to me that even now, all these years later,

1758
01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:08.000
I still have to be like, you said you'd get out.

1759
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:10.000
I stay in bed for like 45 minutes almost.

1760
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:11.000
I can't allow myself to.

1761
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:12.000
Immediately as soon as I wake up.

1762
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:14.000
Well, if I'm doing something in bed,

1763
01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:16.000
I suppose I should change it to working.

1764
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:18.000
That I have 10 minutes to be productive

1765
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.000
is probably the right way to think about it.

1766
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:23.000
Because there are times where there's something

1767
01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.000
that I can do in bed like this morning.

1768
01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:28.000
When I could start researching you, the second I wake up,

1769
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.000
then I would still call that a win.

1770
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.000
But if I don't do the thing that I said I was going to do,

1771
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:36.000
then I force myself to acknowledge to myself with no,

1772
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:38.000
I don't let myself run.

1773
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:40.000
So I don't let myself be distracted.

1774
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:42.000
I'm just like, you said you were going to do something.

1775
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:43.000
You did not do this thing.

1776
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:46.000
And therefore you should not feel good about the behaviors

1777
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:48.000
that you enacted in this moment.

1778
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:52.000
And then I will often confess to my wife or my employees

1779
01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:55.000
or my community so that I am holding myself accountable.

1780
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:58.000
And now I'm sitting in something that I do not like the way

1781
01:09:58.000 --> 01:09:59.000
that it feels.

1782
01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:01.000
I'm not letting myself run.

1783
01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:03.000
And so then I'm like, I don't want to be back here.

1784
01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:06.000
So next time I'm going to take a different set of behaviors.

1785
01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:10.000
That has been transformative for me.

1786
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:11.000
It's interesting.

1787
01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:14.000
And that not using that for me would be to miss out

1788
01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:17.000
on a huge motivational.

1789
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:18.000
I love this.

1790
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:20.000
And I want to draw similarities for the audience.

1791
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:23.000
And I think this is why I think this stuff is kind of interesting

1792
01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:27.000
for anybody who's listening is like, is there are different ways,

1793
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:31.000
this is why there are only a few things you need to do to win.

1794
01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:34.000
And the way you do it is entirely up to you,

1795
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:36.000
which is why I love boiling things down to just like,

1796
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:38.000
what are the few things that everything has in common

1797
01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:40.000
and everything else is preference.

1798
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:43.000
But with what you just said, I think I have, like,

1799
01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:46.000
the first thing we do is we state the facts.

1800
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:49.000
I said that I would wake up within and do something

1801
01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:51.000
within 10 minutes observation.

1802
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.000
That did not happen.

1803
01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:56.000
Then comes the third step, which is that you,

1804
01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:00.000
this is me putting words, is that you label that as bad.

1805
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:03.000
And then maybe label yourself as bad depending on, you know,

1806
01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:04.000
that I don't do.

1807
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:05.000
Right.

1808
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:07.000
For the audience just to be clear.

1809
01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:08.000
Okay.

1810
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:09.000
I need to not see you.

1811
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:10.000
So one.

1812
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:13.000
So if one wakes, you know, doesn't wake up in 10 minutes

1813
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:16.000
and then states the facts.

1814
01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:18.000
I did not do what I said I was going to do.

1815
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:21.000
Then labels the thing as not good.

1816
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:23.000
And then says, I am also not good.

1817
01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:24.000
Then that becomes trouble.

1818
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:26.000
Now one degree before that is just labeling the behavior

1819
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:29.000
is not good or not ideal for the outcome that I want.

1820
01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:36.000
But I'm not sure how much it matters to feel bad about it.

1821
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:39.000
Again, with the behavior box of like stimulus response.

1822
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:41.000
Because once you feel bad about it, right?

1823
01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:45.000
And then it's like, well, what do we do to increase the likelihood

1824
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:46.000
that next time it increases?

1825
01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:48.000
Now, because we could feel amazing about it.

1826
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:49.000
We can feel terrible about it.

1827
01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:50.000
We can feel neutral about it.

1828
01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:54.000
But all that will matter is what behavior we change in order to increase

1829
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:56.000
the likelihood that we do what we want next time.

1830
01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.000
At least as I see it.

1831
01:11:58.000 --> 01:12:04.000
And I found that I put for me a lot of energy into trying to understand

1832
01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:07.000
things, trying to label things as good or bad, trying to label

1833
01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:09.000
myself as good or bad as a consequence.

1834
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:13.000
And the only part that mattered for me to actually get what I wanted

1835
01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:15.000
was the last step, which is what am I going to do about it?

1836
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:17.000
And I can also just skip these.

1837
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:19.000
I can just skip these other three steps.

1838
01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:22.000
And just goes straight from, I always said I was going to do this thing.

1839
01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:24.000
Observation, I did not do it.

1840
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:27.000
What is the change in my behavior or my environment that I'm going to do next time

1841
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:29.000
to increase the likelihood that I do it?

1842
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:32.000
And then, even with the binary thing that we were talking about earlier with rules,

1843
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:37.000
I'm actually more of like a weighing system of, okay, over the last 60 days,

1844
01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:42.000
I got up within the first 10 minutes, 60% of the time.

1845
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:48.000
Okay, next 60 days, if I can do 70% of the time, I am making progress.

1846
01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:52.000
And so rather, like, because most people will fall short of perfection.

1847
01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:57.000
And so I feel like it ends up setting up an inevitability of failure

1848
01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:01.000
if we define it as binary, just my own perspective.

1849
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:05.000
So how do you then deal with people that are not hitting a standard,

1850
01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:07.000
whether it's you or somebody else?

1851
01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:12.000
I have found in business, if you let people get away with low standards,

1852
01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:16.000
not only will it devastate their performance,

1853
01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:19.000
it will begin to drag down the company, and it really matters.

1854
01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:20.000
Totally.

1855
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:22.000
So do you stick to only rewards?

1856
01:13:22.000 --> 01:13:23.000
Do you call it out?

1857
01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:24.000
Like what do you do?

1858
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:26.000
Yeah, so we absolutely, we state the facts.

1859
01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:29.000
And then we say what we're going to do about it.

1860
01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:32.000
And then if someone consistently cannot do, because at some level,

1861
01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:35.000
there's always, there's always a chunk down skill someone doesn't have.

1862
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:37.000
Right? So if I say, hey, can you send an email to sound so?

1863
01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:40.000
We have assumption that they have a stack of skills before that.

1864
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:41.000
I assume that they can read.

1865
01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:42.000
I assume they can write.

1866
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:43.000
I assume they can use a computer.

1867
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:45.000
I assume they have, from an environmental perspective,

1868
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:46.000
they've access to internet.

1869
01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:47.000
They know how to use a word processor.

1870
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:49.000
Like they know how to open up an internet route.

1871
01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:52.000
Like I know where this sounds silly.

1872
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:54.000
But we make these assumptions.

1873
01:13:54.000 --> 01:13:56.000
But for some people, they're missing one of those.

1874
01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:59.000
And so they have all this failure because they're just missing one link on that chain.

1875
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:01.000
And so trying to identify, what is the skilled deficit?

1876
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:04.000
And then is it a skill that I'm willing to invest time into teaching somebody?

1877
01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:07.000
And so we want somebody who has as many base skills as possible.

1878
01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:09.000
That apply to many scenarios.

1879
01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:11.000
Like if two people go through the same training program, right?

1880
01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:14.000
And one person gets the outcome and the other person doesn't.

1881
01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:17.000
It's usually because the training program doesn't account for every single skill

1882
01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:18.000
that is required to get the outcome.

1883
01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:20.000
There are certain assumptions that come in.

1884
01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:24.000
Like if someone reads my book, I assume that they can speak English.

1885
01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:26.000
I mean, I'm saying as simple as that sounds, right?

1886
01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:29.000
But there's a hundred other skills and the people who are successful faster

1887
01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:32.000
just have more of those skills stacked up so that when they get the right information,

1888
01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:33.000
they can immediately use it.

1889
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:37.000
And some people still need to go back and learn how to wake up on time.

1890
01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:40.000
And like have someone say no and not cry.

1891
01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:42.000
But I think these are these are other skills.

1892
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:48.000
And so in the environment of work, how do we address somebody who is not performing?

1893
01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:50.000
We say the facts.

1894
01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:54.000
We recommend a course of action that can help increase the likelihood that they do it again in the future.

1895
01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:58.000
And if that doesn't happen, then we say like this is what will happen as a consequence.

1896
01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:02.000
Neutral of you being good or bad or this situation would be good or bad.

1897
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:04.000
It's just these are these standards that we will accept.

1898
01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:07.000
And you are beneath those standards based on these facts.

1899
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:08.000
That's it.

1900
01:15:08.000 --> 01:15:10.000
Like if you showed up to work late.

1901
01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:11.000
Okay.

1902
01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:15.000
Just to be clear, you understand that our expectation is that you show up on time.

1903
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:16.000
Yes, I understand.

1904
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:17.000
Great.

1905
01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:20.000
You also understand that what you did was not to that expectation.

1906
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:21.000
Cool.

1907
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:22.000
So let's do this.

1908
01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:23.000
Do you have an alarm on your phone?

1909
01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:24.000
Yes.

1910
01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:25.000
Do you use it?

1911
01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:26.000
No.

1912
01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:27.000
Do you know how to set an alarm on your phone?

1913
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:28.000
Yes.

1914
01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:29.000
Great.

1915
01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:30.000
So why don't we do this from here on out?

1916
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:31.000
Let's set two alarms.

1917
01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:32.000
Five minutes apart.

1918
01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:36.000
At this time, that'll give you ample time to get up, clean your face, whatever, and then get on camera.

1919
01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:37.000
Is that work?

1920
01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:38.000
Yes.

1921
01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:39.000
And then we measure.

1922
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:41.000
And if it doesn't happen again.

1923
01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:44.000
If it does, then it's like, why did that?

1924
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:48.000
Because then you get into the base skill being do I hear to authority?

1925
01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:50.000
Like can I listen to instructions?

1926
01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:51.000
Like those are skills.

1927
01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:55.000
And if someone nods their head and then doesn't do that, then they don't have that skill.

1928
01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:00.000
And then the question is whether am I am I willing to take the time to invest in teaching

1929
01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:03.000
someone the skill when the opportunity cost of that time could be allocated to somebody else,

1930
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:06.000
you might already have that skill or suite of skills.

1931
01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.000
That's how we think about it.

1932
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:15.000
So one of the things that is a recurring theme is the idea of extending the time to extinguish.

1933
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:18.000
What if we were going to operationalize that?

1934
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:21.000
What do we do with people?

1935
01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:28.000
And if I were going to personify the length to extinguish, I'll give a historical example,

1936
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:30.000
and then I'll give a more modern.

1937
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:37.000
So historically, Winston Churchill, dude, I don't know if you've read much about him.

1938
01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:39.000
Unbelievable.

1939
01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:44.000
What that guy was able to pull off and how long he was able to delay gratification.

1940
01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:47.000
And then a more modern example would be a David Goggins.

1941
01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:48.000
Yeah.

1942
01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.000
So how do we operationalize it?

1943
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:53.000
What do you take from those guys?

1944
01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:59.000
I think it's the master's thesis of those guys are masters at whatever the thing is.

1945
01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:02.000
And so they find ways to reward themselves in the meantime.

1946
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:08.000
And so we only think that they have supreme ultra discipline willpower because we are measuring

1947
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:15.000
what we can see as the outcome of running a race 26 miles or whatever it is.

1948
01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:19.000
But if they are rewarding themselves throughout the entire process, then if anything,

1949
01:17:19.000 --> 01:17:24.000
the end of the race might be a removing of a reward and might be actually anti-climactic,

1950
01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:28.000
which is what happens with most athletes after they compete in the Olympics or they win the championship

1951
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:30.000
or lose the championship.

1952
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:32.000
The build up is where they have all the reinforcement.

1953
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:38.000
And then when that thing actually happens, then they have to get right back on the horse

1954
01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.000
of where they get the reward from, which is the work to get there because they are good enough at it

1955
01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:43.000
that they can win in more ways.

1956
01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:46.000
And so just the more you know about something, the better you are at it, the better you are at it,

1957
01:17:46.000 --> 01:17:49.000
the more you can win, the more you can win, the more you want to do it.

1958
01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:52.000
How much of that do you think is identity?

1959
01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:57.000
Like when I look at somebody like a Churchill or a Goggins,

1960
01:17:57.000 --> 01:18:02.000
that feels to me like a game of who am I or who do I want to be.

1961
01:18:02.000 --> 01:18:10.000
One of my favorite Churchill quotes is, well, so quotes, failures the ability to go from,

1962
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:15.000
sorry, success is the ability to go from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm speaks directly to this.

1963
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:21.000
But one thing that I got reading his biography is he said to his mother when he was really young

1964
01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:30.000
that this is a paraphrase, not exact quote, but I yearn for a reputation for physical courage more than anything.

1965
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:34.000
I mean, it was, and this is a guy that's, for people that don't know a story,

1966
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:39.000
that sent himself into war zones multiple times in his life when he absolutely did not need to do that.

1967
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:43.000
Including World War I when he was, like he was basically the equivalent,

1968
01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:46.000
the British equivalent of a senator.

1969
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:51.000
Now imagine you have an active senator who felt like he had let people down.

1970
01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:54.000
And so he said, send me to the front lines.

1971
01:18:54.000 --> 01:18:57.000
And they're like, whoa, why would we do that?

1972
01:18:57.000 --> 01:18:59.000
Like you do not need to go to the front lines.

1973
01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:03.000
Even if you want to engage with the war, you certainly don't need to go to the front lines.

1974
01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:09.000
And he said, nope, I want to be literally where the bombs are falling in the dirt with the men.

1975
01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:14.000
And that was somebody who had such a strong internal compass of,

1976
01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:18.000
this is who I want to be or how men ought to be.

1977
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.000
Same idea with Goggins, right?

1978
01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:22.000
Just felt like I'm a loser.

1979
01:19:22.000 --> 01:19:26.000
He's staring at himself in the mirror, the accountability mirror doesn't like who he sees.

1980
01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:28.000
Besides, he's going to change and become a different person.

1981
01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:34.000
And I'm sure you've seen the clips of him screaming, you don't know me, you don't know who I am.

1982
01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:37.000
That's an identity play.

1983
01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:40.000
So how do you see that?

1984
01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:48.000
Is extending the time to extinguish purely an identity play or is there something else going on?

1985
01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:52.000
So I think the wording matters.

1986
01:19:53.000 --> 01:20:01.000
But if you want to extend how long you continue to do something without seeing the result of your doing,

1987
01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:04.000
you need to find a way to be rewarded in the meantime.

1988
01:20:04.000 --> 01:20:08.000
Like that's what it is, like in my opinion.

1989
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:13.000
And so whether we call it identity or we call it a skill or we call it behavior or we call it character trait.

1990
01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:20.000
So it's saying like the many words that ultimately mean like, what is the percentage likely that this behavior occurs?

1991
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:22.000
That is really all I would look at.

1992
01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:27.000
And is it as simple as I, I was today who I said I was.

1993
01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:31.000
Like how do we make that mean not to beat to that the idea of operationalize?

1994
01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:41.000
But when I think about what I'm doing when I reward and punish myself is I am trying to feel the way I want to feel or not or make sure that I'm feeling discomfort so that I will move away from that behavior.

1995
01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:43.000
Yeah.

1996
01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:54.000
So what is it or how do we leverage identity to feel the thing that we want to feel like is it just words in your head like how do you play that identity is really internal culture.

1997
01:20:54.000 --> 01:21:03.000
So if you think if you define culture as a set of rules of behavior in a within an organization identity is just the rules of behavior within an individual.

1998
01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:13.000
And so I think to your point you have your rules of behavior that occur I would say that my rules of behavior even though I hate rules of concept.

1999
01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:21.000
When I do these things like when I see this this happens right I do have the these these behaviors that have been queued that I have learned.

2000
01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:27.000
See now we have all these words that we've defined so now we can at least everybody can agree on what we're talking about which is why it means a lot to me.

2001
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:38.000
But yeah I just I think identity is just a big stack of behavior cues that we've said because people change over time and so it's really just like a mental construct of this is how I behave.

2002
01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:49.000
Like what is an identity it is like and even if you want to say like I know this person what it really means is that I have a high predictive score on what this personal do or say as a result of whatever I do or say.

2003
01:21:49.000 --> 01:22:09.000
So if that's the conversation that I'm having with someone it's like I know I'm really well I'll love that because I have a good predictive score that when this happens you will do this now somebody who's all over the place are super erratic right then I do they have a unformed identity or do I just not know enough about them maybe.

2004
01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:29.000
And so it just that has just been my litmus test and maybe maybe it seems like oversimplification but for me it has been incredibly fruitful to just because then it for me it takes a lot of the superstition a lot of the magic a lot of the black box of feelings and emotions and identity out and it's just Alex is a series of behaviors.

2005
01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:46.000
That's who I am that I that have been trained into me by my environment and that I have tried to learn myself and I will change in the future because if I get better that means I can't be the same person I am today which means some of the things that I have learned now I will unlearn and learn new behaviors when I see a different stimulus or the same sorry when I see the same stimulus.