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Welcome to Living Influence. I'm your host, Scott Boyd, along with my friend and mentor, Bill Frahl. We're glad to have you here. Our topic today is about mature Christians, and mature Christians choose to be vulnerable.

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They demonstrate to others that they're still learners, willing to allow others to speak into their lives and meet their needs. I used to talk about this thing called Johari's Window, and it's this little two-by-two matrix.

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where on one side it's the things I know about me and the things I don't know about me. And on the top was things others know about me and things others don't know about me. And so when you do the matrix, there's four boxes. And there's the known, the hidden, the blind, and the unknown. And I talk about the blind spot. And I wanted to bring up the blind spot because if I'm blind to something,

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I can't see it. And so it's actually like somebody says, Scott, you've got a parrot on your shoulder. And I look at my shoulder. No, I don't. That's what a blind spot looks like. I can't actually see it. And so I love how in this statement that we've started with, choosing to be vulnerable, I allow others to teach me something that I can't see. That's why it's so hard. Absolutely.

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And so it's a great place to start, Bill. Thank you. Very good place to start. Yeah. I like the, there's one word in there that's called still. Still.

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Mm-hmm. Mature leaders are still learning. Yeah. I got another story about all that. Many years ago, Dr. Bobby Clinton at Fuller Seminary, who happened to be one of my mentors, put a class together, a two-weeks intensive in the summer called Change Agents. He personally invited 42 leaders from all over the world. I was a privileged person to be there. I mean, there were leaders from Asia and Africa and Europe. It was amazing, amazing class.

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But the reason I'm telling you this story is because of the way he started the class. So Bobby's in front of all these world leaders, and he has this plastic thing in his hands with a bunch of holes in it. And he starts playing Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star in front of all these leaders. And we're all going, what is he doing?

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That's the way he started in the class. And all of us just finished it, and he said there was no applause or nothing. He said, well, I expected that. He said, I have a plan that I'm going to learn something about something I don't know anything about every five to ten years of my life. So this season, I'm going to learn how to read and play music.

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He said, and so far I know how to play this thing. And I can play Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. And that's the way he started the class because he was modeling. In spite of the fact that all of us went there because of everything Bobby knows, he came to us as a learner. Yeah. That was a profound lesson for everybody in that class. Yeah.

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And so when we think about mature Christians or mature leaders, you're making a choice. Am I going to still be a learner? This is an interesting dynamic, Scott. A lot of people, when they're young, they become learners, and they got to learn something until somehow they become an expert.

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And then when they become an expert, others have to learn from them. And for some reason, that causes them to now become those who teach, but they no longer are those who receive. Yeah. And the minute I take the position that I am the one giving and I'm no longer the one receiving, unwittingly, I am making the decision to stop maturing.

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Yeah. I am making the decision that I am no longer going to learn. So let me hit you with a curveball. Please do. Okay. How do parents do this with their children? I think that what we do as parents, what we have the tendency to do as parents, is we tend to make this decision. Our kids need to learn from us. And they do. And they do. It's a great decision. Right. They need to learn from us, and they do.

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But a parent who is mature in the process of teaching their child to learn are also teaching their children to learn to teach others. They're also teaching their children that they are somebody who could learn from their child. Yeah.

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Years ago, our son Billy, I remember he was 10. In the Bible, I was reading to him out of Proverbs one night. And in the Proverbs, it says, a wise son makes a glad father. I remember. He remembered that. And he couldn't wait for me to come home forever.

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One day, he just couldn't wait. He was driving Grace crazy. He couldn't wait. Finally, Dad comes in and he says, Dad, you're a proud father. I said, I am? He said, why am I a proud father? Because I got 100 on a test today. That's why son makes a proud father. But back to your question, our opportunity is to do something. Model for our children that we are a learner.

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So they, in their learning, can become someone who is not just going to be a teacher but a receiver. And that's going to be a critical part of this lesson we're sharing together. How do I learn to become a receiver? Because becoming the receiver is actually what matures me.

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What I know does not mature me. It's the truth I receive. It's the love I receive. What I like to do is I like to just ask a series of questions for anybody, for me, for you, a series of questions. Who do I let speak into my life? Pause there for a minute. Who do I let speak into my life? Who do I let love me? Yeah. Yeah.

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Who do I let correct me? Who do I let serve me without reciprocation? That's a hard one for a lot of people. Yeah, talk about that a little bit. It's like this. How do I learn to receive from you, Scott, without feeling an obligation to give back?

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Yeah. How do I learn to do that? Yeah, that connects to me in my new marriage. So I was married to my late wife, Bev, for 38 years. And Bev wanted...

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chores to be done together. She just, it's just like, she didn't want a hint of like there to be this patriarchal divide of chores. Whatever the chores are, we should figure out how to do them together. You know, I lose Bev and I, I get married again to Eileen and Eileen, I'm like,

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She likes to love me by, oh, can I get you a glass of water? Would you like some more cheese and crackers? And she wants to get up and do it. And I initially would feel really uncomfortable with like,

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We're not sharing the chores. I don't want to be the ogre doing this to you. But I had the letter. Good for you. Great illustration. And it was uncomfortable. Right. I was feeling like I was doing something wrong. Right.

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But we've learned to do that for one another. It's been amazing. I love this story, and I love the application of it. And part of what this idea is, when do I grow up enough? When is it okay for me to let you care for me, period, without feeling, okay, now he did that for me, now I owe him.

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No, they're just words, Scott, but they're powerful words. There is no debt in love. Yeah. There is no debt in grace. Yeah. And I want to back it up and say it this way. Do you know if I'm not letting somebody love me or care for me or serve me, again, I don't think I've ever put this together for people, but listen, if I choose to not be the one receiving me,

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I am the one that has stopped growing. That's like, could I just get that through my thick skull? Could that become part of my heart reality? Do I know how important it is to be the one who receives?

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We're going to talk more about this another time, but I just want to say it now. I cannot give what I have not received. We've talked about it before, but when I would teach a grace class in my church, I would, I'd always ask the audience,

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how many of you are good at giving grace to other people? And, you know, lots of people would raise their hands. And then I would say, how many of you are good at giving grace to yourselves? Oh, wow. Yeah, wow. And then the hands would go down. There'd always be a few that, yeah, I do that well, you know, and they probably did.

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a lot of hands would go down. I believe that. And so then the final question would be, and if you never receive grace, what is it that you think you're giving? And is it actually grace that you're giving if you never allow yourself to receive it? Yeah. Just ask that question again because it's the key.

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If you never allow yourself to receive grace, what is it that you're giving? Amen. When you think you're giving grace to another. What I think is actually true is they're actually doing the first part of what they consider to be a transaction. Yeah. Thank you. They're doing something and they're having an expectation of what will come back. It kind of feeds into another statement on this whole subject, and that is,

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For many, many people, it's easier to receive critique than it is to receive care. Yeah. Especially— It's humbling to receive care. It's humbling to receive care. Yeah. See, if I'm receiving critique, it's because you're really evaluating something I've done. Yeah.

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But if you're giving me care, you're talking about my person. You're giving care to me, to my person. And why is that harder?

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Yeah, and so the interesting thing is when you receive care from others, it's the others that are benefiting. Well said. And that's a leadership principle. Well said. And so where I experienced that in spades was when my late wife was battling cancer and doing chemo and immunity compromised and COVID happened. Ooh.

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I couldn't leave the house. And I was running this big company. And my people cared for me. And I couldn't reciprocate. They're like, we got it. We got it. And I had to let them. Amen. This is the story of this lesson.

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And in letting them, the amount they grew through that period of time, I mean, it was so great that it's like, I have to continue this succession. It's why I'm doing a podcast with you today because I don't work there anymore. Oh, Scott, that is so, that whole scenario is so beautiful. It's like, wait a minute, you were the receiver.

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But because you let them, they matured. And they matured. And they matured. And they became to the point where – I love this part of your story.

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They didn't need you anymore. No. Dad, we like it when you stay away. So they're running your business without you, and you've told me this, and they're doing better than you ever did. That's right. But let's scream that kind of loud here. Let's scream that because most of us have never been taught that.

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the benefit the other person gets when we receive. Yeah. We haven't been taught that. We hesitate receiving because we feel the obligation to give. Yeah. I can really help you. I can really help you. But we haven't thought about the fact that if I let you help me, you're actually benefiting. And that's an incredibly important part of this whole principle of vulnerability that we talk.

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Right. The obvious thing I'm thinking when we say a mature leader needs to be vulnerable is a mature leader needs to come into the room and back up his dump truck and dump all of his crap in the middle of the floor so everybody can see it. Yeah. Some will be me.

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And that's really not what you're talking about. Not at all. That's not what we mean. It's the vulnerability is, like we said, displayed in that I let them speak into my life. Exactly. Because I need it. Exactly. I let them meet my needs. Exactly. Because that benefits them. Exactly. And you. And me. Yeah. I let them correct me. Yeah. Because we're all just human. Yeah.

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Exactly. And so I don't always see perfectly. No. And sometimes I have blind spots that I can't see at all. Which you talked about. And then I let them serve me where I don't have to come back and one-up them or pay them back. It's grace isn't transaction. It's not. There's no debt. Right.

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Yeah. There's no doubt. And even as you were just saying what you just said, my thought ran here. Scott, in your relationship with the employees who are now running your business, over time, there was so much respect in those relationships. I've never asked any of them. I know them. I've never asked them. They couldn't wait to help you.

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They couldn't wait. They were with you, sadly, sadly, involved in the tragedy of her cancer. But they couldn't wait. And so let's apply that to just life. Could I pause for a minute and just learn a lesson? For the benefit of someone else, would I let them love me? For the benefit of someone else, would I let them serve me?

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For the benefit of someone else, would I let them guide me? Would I let them meet my needs? Otherwise, I make it all personal. And transactional. And transactional. Yeah. And I say, oh, the reason we do this is for my benefit. No. The reason, I want to learn, Scott, I really do, I want to learn how to let others know

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speak into, care for all the things we've said. But I want to further learn how to let that process develop, mature, and enhance them. That's this lesson. That's this lesson, our coming out of this lesson. That's what I would like each of you who are listening and watching. Imagine, just pause for a minute, wherever you are,

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and ask yourself these questions again. Who are you letting love you? Who are you letting guide you? Who are you letting correct you? Who are you letting serve you? And then imagine as we're sharing,

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how much they will gain when you do. Yeah. Oh, that's really good. Hey, I want to remind everybody that we have another organization called Living Influence Leadership. And we have a conference coming up where you'll get to spend a couple of days with Balthral, myself, and Baltimore Cole. Really great.

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diving in deep into leadership principles for Christian leaders. We really want to find business leaders that are Christians and would like to really take their leadership to another level. Check it out on livinginfluenceleadership.com, and we'd love to see you in September. Thanks for listening to Living Influence. We appreciate you. Just a call to action. We would love it if you would share our podcast with one or two people this week. Thanks again.