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But the longer you delay the ask, the bigger the ask can be.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers,

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how to make more customers, how to keep them longer,

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and the many failures and lessons we have learned along the way.

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I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

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In this video, I want to break down the difference between branding and

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direct response marketing and why not deeply understanding the differences,

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costing you millions and millions of dollars in ultimately the amount of money that you

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probably want to make. And if you don't know who I am, my name's Alex Mosey,

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I own acquisition.com. It's a portfolio of companies that is about $85 million a year

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in revenue. All right, I make these videos because I was once broke and I've learned a lot of

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lessons along the way and I don't want the pain that I experienced to be in vain.

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All right, that's why I make these. So that being said, branding versus direct response.

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I think this is one of the more interesting topics that I have dove into over the last

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year or so. And it's come from a variety of different conversations that I've had with

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top marketers. And this morning, I had a conversation with Dean Grassy O.C.

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who is a phenomenal world class marketer. And we talked for like an hour this morning,

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just about this concept of the difference between branding and direct response.

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And I thought I would share some of the lessons and discussion points that we had with you

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so that you can hopefully benefit. And so the first point is that you may have heard this in in

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my book, kind of a lot of offers. But the longer you delay the ask, the bigger the ask can be.

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So for example, if you're if you can use this in any situation, whether you're, you know,

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courting a lady or a guy or whatever, you know, in the first five seconds, you're like,

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hey, let's go on together. It's like, well, you might have some audience that be willing to do that,

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but the vast majority of people would not be willing to do that. But if you date for, you know,

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six months, then that might be something that would be almost everybody would be willing to do

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that after six months, depending on whatever relief beliefs. That's not my point here, but you

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can get the idea that a higher and higher percentage people would be willing to take you up on

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that offer if they had spent more and more time with you. And so the longer the delay, the bigger the

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ask and the visual that I like to describe to this is the longer the runway, the bigger the plane

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that can take off. And so the bigger the payload you can get based on the amount you delay to the same

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degree. If you've seen Gary Vee, he's he's a he's an influencer and he owns a marketing agency

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out of New York. And he spent, I want to say 10 years or 12 years, building his personal brand.

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And then he finally had his ask, which was, hey, by my NFT. And then within this band of,

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you know, six months ended up making like a hundred million dollars from that NFT launch, right?

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Now, I would make the argument that the NFT launch itself was actually director co-oughts marketing

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play. Whereas everything prior to that was really about Brit building the brand, right? And so

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different examples of this that I think would be important to drive the point home. And why I think

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that the many, many, many marketers start in direct response and then end up in branding is because

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of what I'm about to share with you. So please listen closely to this if you are trying to make more

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money. If you look at most big consumer brands, you look at, you know, Colgate or Crest or, you

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know, shampoo brands, right? That have been here for a very long time. They're not offering two

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for one deals. They're not like, hey, go buy this toothpaste for 50% off, right? That's not actually

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what they're doing. They're just talking about the products. And if you look at some of these

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bigger celebrities that exist, you look at Dwayne Johnson, the rock, built his huge brand, and then

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said, hey, I'm offering this, I'm starting this tequila. You guys should check it out.

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Colour McGregor, Conor McGregor built up, you know, his personal brand that's today, check out

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proper 12. Kylie Jenner was like, hey, built up a brand and then she did her lip kits. And so what's

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interesting is that brand people are now realizing is an amazing arbitrage opportunity for maximizing

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value. And I think part of the reason behind this is that goodwill compounds faster than revenue

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does. And so hear me out, think through this with me. If you've seen somebody who's consistently

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been selling in this maybe you, what happens is you provide value in some way and then you extract

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the value that you've, the equity in the relationship through monetizing it through an ask

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or some sort of right hook as they say, just getting them to try and buy something, right?

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And the thing is is that whenever you make an ask you decrease your goodwill, right? And so you

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kind of have to start over at zero again and then you build up goodwill and then you ask and then

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it goes back to zero again, right? And so you're constantly depositing and extracting

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capital in the relationship and the hope is that it costs you less to deposit than you make on

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the extraction, right? Like that's fundamentally what like traditional direct response marketing

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is at its most basic form, right? And the reason it is direct response is that we are actively

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requesting a direct reply or immediate action as a result of seeing our advertisement, right?

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Of any kind. To contrast that with branding, what we're doing with branding is that we are reinforcing

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the values and the stories that people tell about our products and services, all right? So we're

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reinforcing stories versus asking for actions. And you might be like, well, I, you know, branding

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doesn't make sense. And I want to tell you this because when I started out my career,

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I thought that every single company that did branding was retarded. I was like, you guys are idiots.

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If you guys understood how direct response worked, you guys would make more money. I'm such a genius,

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blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was wrong as I often am. And the more I studied these massive

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companies, I was like, okay, so all of these companies all do this type of marketing,

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whereas little old me is doing this quick, you know, jab, right hook, whatever. Mar of just,

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of just give ass, give ass, give ass, give ass, and always just, you know, depositing it in a value

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in order to extract the value later. And the thing is, is people get it. People have seen it,

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they know the game. And yes, it does work to a limited degree, right? But I would, it's very,

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very rare to find a massive, massive direct response company. I'm not saying they don't exist,

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but I would say the preponderance of enormous companies are not direct response based companies.

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And so why is that? And I would pause it. And this is my theory. And this is what I talk to

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Dean this morning about at length is the difference between direct response and branding

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is not the ROI on the advertisement itself, but on the time horizon with which we measure it.

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All right. And so in direct response, you're always calculating your return on ad spend

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immediately rather than thinking, can I build up this brand and then look at the return you're

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getting on that brand overall over an extended period of time. And so I'll give you a classic

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example to illustrate the difference. If our reselling t-shirts, a direct response marketer might

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have a cool, funny, mean thing, aggressively market it, have upsells of two of the same shirts,

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five of the same shirts, getting on continuity for each means for every month, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Right? It would be a typical direct response market play, not see you can't make money doing it.

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You can't. And that's, this is the big exception I'm having here, right? Is that like you can

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become a millionaire doing small games. All right. So I'm not saying you can't do it. You absolutely

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can. It's just that what type of game would you prefer to play? And I can say that as I've aged

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or weathered in the game, I continue to shift more and more towards branding, but I do think there's

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a balance that needs to be struck. But from a, from a branding perspective, in that same example,

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it would be spending a year talking about what your values are, the stories that you want people

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to tell about you and your company. And then you can simply put your brand on a t-shirt

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and people will pay a hundred dollars for it, right? And so then what is the return on the

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advertising you did for that year? Well, if you can sell t-shirts for a hundred dollars,

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rather trying to, rather than trying to arbitrage, you know, meme t-shirts and discounts and

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bundling and doing all sorts of more complex things and just simply saying, if you believe what we

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believe, vote with your dollars about the things that you care about, right? Align with us.

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And that's fundamentally what branding is. And the, when branding works very well is when

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what you are saying about your brand clarifies what people are already saying. And so a lot of times,

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people have a general gist of what your brand is. Hopefully, it's what you want. Oftentimes,

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it's not. And this is especially true in the direct response marketing community at large,

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because people say terrible things about the people who are doing their direct response. And so

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their brand is the reputation and the things that other people say about you.

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Hey, most of the nation, quick break, just to let you know that we've been starting to post on

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LinkedIn and want to connect with you. All right, so send me a connection request and note,

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letting me know that you listen to the show and I will accept it. There's anyone you think

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that we should be connected with, tag them in one of my or layless posts. And I will give you

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all the love in the world. All right, so let's get back to the show.

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Right, in an example that Elon Musk gave in the interview, I can't remember where he gave it,

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he talked about how the consumer is the one that creates your brand. He said, if you look at,

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I think he gave the example of Toyota and Ford, but the point is not necessarily the brands,

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but more so the message, which is, he said, listen, you know, Ford talked about

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being reliable and being high quality, etc. He said in Toyota, their marketing never said that.

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And yet Toyota is the company that's known for being reliable and high quality and things like

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that compared to the Ford's, right? He said, so as much you can say whatever you want in the,

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in the marketing messaging, but it has to be true. And so to my interpretation of that is what

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you want to do is give people the words to describe your brand that are true and just give them the

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words to say rather than try to redefine the thoughts they have. And I think that that is really

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what comes to effective branding and doing that deliberately. As an added point to that,

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this is something that I got from Grant Cardone, which has been one of the, one of the really

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deep and profound lessons I think I got from our two conversations we've had about marketing in

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general. But one, first off, the many people who don't like Grant, you have to appreciate

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how effective he is at promoting himself and his brand. Like you have to respect that, all right?

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You can, you can not like them in, but you can app, you must respect what his, his level of effort

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and the outcome and the output of his effort, right? I personally have had nothing but positive

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interactions with Grant. But my point is, is that you have to respect that. Now that being said,

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one of the things that he said that I have really taken with me is the one or two words that someone

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will associate with your brand. He said, when they think of me, I want them to think this, right? And

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that is not, you know, this massive declarative, you know, value statement or mission statement,

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because people don't care, right? Nor do they remember hardly anything. And so if you can get the

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masses to just remember, oh, yeah, he's the real estate guy. He's the business builder guy,

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right? Which would be more aligned with what we do. We build businesses and we, you know, we buy

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interest in information, coaching, e-learning type businesses that are in a niche. And like,

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that's what I want people to associate. Now they're not going to remember all the stuff that I just

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said. But if I can just, if they can just say like, he's a digital business builder, like he,

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or like digital business investor, right? Either of those things would be things that I would say,

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okay, that's a positive association. That's the type of association that I want people to make with

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my brand, right? And the thing is, is that if I can wait a longer time, which is why most people

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cannot do this and why I'm not saying you necessarily have to start branding day one. But if you can

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be cognizant of what the message that you were relaying in your content and in the advertising

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that you do, and I'm using advertising by the actual definition, which is to make known, right?

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When you, when you make your products and services known in the many ways that you do it,

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if you can reinforce the simple message in every single thing, people will begin as long as it's

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aligned with what's true to say the same things back to you. And that will reinforce the cycle of

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who you are in the marketplace and what you stand for. And so if branding is a higher ROI activity

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overall, I believe it is. And I think that there's the many massive companies that exist out there

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would be great testaments and evidence to that point is that they don't engage in direct response

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marketing for the most part or even at all. To the vast, like the vast majority of the time,

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they are talking much more about who they are and what they stand for, right? Why they do what they

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do, right? And then people then buy their products and service in accordance with their values.

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And they vote with their dollars about the things that they care about being the identity that they

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wish to associate with, right? And so I think that the reason Seth Godin started with direct

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response and then became and now talks exclusively about branding. The reason Simon's index started

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direct response and then talks way more about branding. The reason that I started in direct

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response and talk much more about branding stuff now, and at least that's my belief in where I

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think that it's because that's where you make more money just over a longer time horizon. And I

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think the reason that many direct response marketers burn out is because they don't like the brand

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that they are building for themselves, which is why most people leave the space over a long

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enough time horizon. And so that's why you don't see many, I'm not saying there aren't any,

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but the vast majority of direct response marketers tend to be younger. And one of the difficult

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things about this, and I was having a conversation with a friend about this, is that because it is

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such a young space, there are not many people who have old lessons. And so the predominant education

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that exists in the spaces, people who are new, the fact that someone can consider themselves a

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quote, OG in the internet marketing space after three years is laughable, right? It's laughable,

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hilarious, but it's true. In that space, it's very difficult to be in OG because most people burn

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out because their brand equity drops so much, right? And so if the only way that we can build very

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big things is doing them, the same thing over a long period of time, then it would create the,

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the, I don't want to say obvious, but a natural conclusion that branding is the direction that more

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people end up going in once they have the ability to do so. And so if you can delay the ask, and you

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can have the resources, and you can have the patience to build something bigger, your good will will

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compound faster than your revenue will in a direct response marketing environment. And so this is

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the concept around give, give, give, rather than ask, give, give, give, comma, give, give, give, give,

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comma, give, give, get. And what's interesting is that I think most people in the prospects that are

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consuming your, your content and things like that, they are waiting for the other shoe to drop,

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they're waiting for you to make the ask. And so they have their guard up. But if you give, give,

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and then right when they're expecting you to ask, give again, and then again, and give even more,

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their guard begins to drop and then they start to think, man, this guy or this gal is awesome.

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I really like this person. And then something interesting happens. They start telling people about

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you because they don't believe that they're sacrificing their own brand equity by sharing your

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message. And so that is where the compounding effects of word of mouth start to take off. And so

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when I say that good will compounds faster than revenues, because in the traditional example,

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it would be give, give, give, ask. And this isn't me pooping area or anything like that. I mean,

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I think that very much at least establishing that cadence is useful for most people who are

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doing a direct response, at least give something before you ask, right? But if rather than asking,

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right, where you have to start over at zero, because you build, you build equity, you build value

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in the relationship, and then you're asking you back down to zero, and then you build it,

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and then you go back down to zero. And then you basically always cap by the amount of value

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that you have in the relationship. That's the cap, right? But the alternative, if you were to look

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at this visually, would be give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give, and then it keeps going

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at the chart, keeps going off. And then at a certain point, a certain percentage of that audience,

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because they have, they are reciprocal in nature type people, they will take steps towards you

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without you even asking simply because they believe so strongly in what you have. And those

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the types of clients, right, that you want to be able to take on, it just takes patience to get

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there. But when you have those types of clients, they get better results, they pay bigger premiums,

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and that also gives you implied scarcity within your products and services, and you are always

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underselling your demand, which will essentially eliminate your bottleneck that you have in growing,

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because you always have more demand than you can possibly handle. And that is the benefit

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of building the brand over the long term, rather than simply the one, two punches in order to extract

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capital today. And so if you can delay the amount of time that you have between when you provide

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value, and when you ask, and ideally you never do, you simply allow the goodwill to continue to

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compound, allow the word of mouth to continue to grow, to the point where you start receiving money,

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probably far, far further in the future than you are now, and what you are accustomed to doing.

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But in that future state, you can then look at the minimal amount that you're spending,

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right, in order to distribute your message, to advertise, right, to make known. And then you will

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see that you have significantly higher returns on your advertising efforts, it just took longer

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to get there. And so understanding that it's been branding in direct response, and having a longer

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term perspective, and looking at the OGs in the space, or lack thereof, and the people who have

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transitioned from direct response to branding, I think that there is a lot of lessons that we can

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take from it, and this is just one of them that I wanted to share with you. And if you're new to

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the channel, Lock and Emotion Nation, I said this earlier, but our portfolio is about 85 million

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dollars a year, it's actually a little higher than that. I just try to stay consistent, but I think

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it's probably over 100 now. But I make these videos because I struggle a lot coming up, and I

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hope that the pain that I went through is not for nothing. And so that's why I make these videos.

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And yeah, so we, I just hope you like it. So anyways, keep being awesome, and I'll see you guys

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in the next bit. Bye!