WEBVTT

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Real life presents the Jack Hibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth,

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equip the saints and impact our culture.

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Hey everybody, you're not going to want to miss this podcast.

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In fact, you're going to want to share it with other people, and here's the reason why.

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You need encouragement.

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Have you become cast down? Do you feel like giving up? Do you feel like quitting?

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Well, it's pretty native to anyone who's accomplishing something.

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And so we have a very, very special program today.

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You're going to be blessed to hear from Shane and Morgan Idolman,

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and this excellent book, you'll be blessed to find out what you are about to hear.

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Stay tuned.

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You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com slash podcast.

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Today, if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ,

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then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings.

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To us, that's like saying amen or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen.

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Now, open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you.

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Here is Jack Hibbs.

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Gosh, you guys, welcome to the podcast.

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It's great to have you with us and Morgan.

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It's great to have you here.

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So let's dive in to what God has been speaking to you and the new book.

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I need to know.

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We need to know the genesis of it.

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Where does it come from?

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Because I love the title.

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I mean, who in any area of life be it ministry, be it just life school, student, parents?

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How many times have we quit in our hearts and in our minds?

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And some have completely quit.

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Absolutely.

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Where does this come from?

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Well, especially as a pastor, so many people can relate to it.

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Because what pastor hasn't thought about quitting?

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Because it's a pretty stressful job with the ups, the downs, the,

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I mean, you cost some of your issues, but there's also a lot of

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discouragement, critical spirit, especially if you're bold.

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You know, especially if you're bold.

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Yeah, especially if you're bold, you get a lot more criticism.

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And it just started probably a few years ago.

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I'd never planned on writing the book.

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Anytime I write a book, it has to be something in my heart that God's doing.

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Because it's a, it's a process and I don't want to, I don't want to touch if God's not in it.

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So going through this difficult season and I don't know how much to get into, but discouragement.

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Yeah, get in.

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And then that, that turns into you become critical.

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That's right.

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You know, I'm discouraged.

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I'm critical.

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All these things I thought were going to happen aren't really happening.

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And then you throw in, as I'm getting older, as you know, the health issues start to play a role now

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that I didn't have when I was younger.

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I was simple that remark.

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And so, and then we had some California.

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How many people moved from, from your church?

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What do we, I mean, we're, oh, from our church.

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I mean, we lost hundreds and hundreds of elders and deacons and friends and fans.

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And it was just a constant getting hit with this, this, um, people moving.

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Which that, that in of itself is, is it to be expected.

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But then you throw in just some, maybe some good friendships that where they turn on you,

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gossips.

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I guess we should make it clear.

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You know, people moving, what we mean by that is people moving out of state,

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fleeing for their lives because of this government.

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Exactly.

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Yep.

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And it's not that just people move to get away from, from the people in the mountains.

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Yeah, no, people have a hard time.

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We watched people leave.

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We watched people depart from here as though, as though it was some form of an

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Exodus that they didn't want to participate in.

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They were, they were in a sense, weeping.

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And some were weeping.

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We've got to go because the company that we work for can't take it in California

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more and they're moving to fill in the blank.

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Or they, and I think this is another, it wouldn't need to get it now.

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But there's another big wave if California let government does the wrong thing again.

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And that is, there's going to be another mass exodus of parents with their children with some

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of the things that are up there in Sacramento.

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School district, yeah.

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That's basically government sanctioned, uh,

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molestation by strangers.

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I mean, I, people think that's extreme.

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No, you just wait till we impact that.

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Yeah, it's, it's huge.

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That's, that's for a later day.

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But that affects your heart as a pastor for this reason.

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I don't mind them leaving.

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But when I find out and I ask them, where are you going?

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Oh, we're going to XYZ City.

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Have you found a church there?

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No, I'm sure we'll find one.

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And you can't say that anymore.

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No, actually, you probably won't because there's so few Bible,

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you'll find a church, but you, you might not find a Bible in that church.

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We've had several.

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Well, that's the number one, that's the number one question.

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Do you know of a good Bible church in this area?

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Not that there aren't, but you know, the church needs to be the hub.

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Absolutely.

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You know, and so I, I changed my attitude on that too.

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I was a little too critical at first.

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You know, like, guys, California's we're fighting for.

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And she is, we've talked a lot.

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We believe that, but, you know, we're kind of stuck.

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Yeah.

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So, so anyway, discouragement, health issues.

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I mean, I want, there's a lot of other issues.

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We're just, was beating, I didn't feel like preaching.

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When a preacher doesn't feel like preaching,

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I don't want to go church on Wednesdays.

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It was hard to go on Sundays.

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And, but something dynamic took place.

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When I would prepare my heart and I'd say, Lord, even,

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even if I don't feel like it.

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And some, those are some of the best sermons

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because the word of God comes alive.

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And you can tell when, when Holy Spirit is just

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empowering that message.

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And then I'd leave and go home.

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And here comes this, this wanting to quit.

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You know, I finally told my kids too.

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Like, I don't really want to do this anymore.

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And it was a, you know, there's crying.

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And there's like, I can't believe how much you're describing me

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and I'm not joking.

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Yeah.

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How often are you?

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Well, most pastors finally open up to me.

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They don't, they don't want to write the, you know,

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that they don't want to be one of those people.

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You do know that we're doing the podcast right now, Shane.

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You guys, I mean, people are going to know this,

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but I'm with you.

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I mean, I can't, I can't articulate enough.

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You wrote your resignation in your head a few times.

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What? You know, I can tell you, I've physically written my

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resignation over the last 35 years.

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I've written it six times.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Until we know, but you know, you can't quit

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because God called you.

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That's the only anchor.

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That's the only reason.

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I knew I couldn't do it, but you, you play with those ideas.

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I even thought about running for governor.

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And I'm like, yeah, maybe that was God talking to you.

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No, well, I actually, I texted you.

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I think you didn't get it, but like Jim Garlo, Rob McCoy,

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even our senator, and they're like, no, no, no,

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stay in your wheelhouse.

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You don't even, I'm like, okay, but you start,

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you start to think other things.

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My brother's got a great business in Idaho

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in the Treasure Valley there by your Calvary Chapel.

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And, you know, there's great opportunities where I can,

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you know, but you, you, I know.

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It's the enemy plants these, these thoughts in your mind.

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And if you don't take those thoughts captive and say,

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Lord, you've called me to do this.

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So one day I, I just repented.

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I mean, to be frank.

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And I said, Lord, I'm doing this.

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I'm, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to fight this discouragement.

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I'm going to, a lot of it too with my health.

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For me, I turned to food.

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And so I was gaining, gaining weight.

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Lead pressure was high.

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Signs of pre-diabetes, metabolic syndrome.

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All these things, I, I'm in health of fitness,

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so I know about it.

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So this was hitting me, doctors, you know,

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blood pressure was getting hot and, and this.

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And, and so, but I finally repented.

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And the joy came back and the book came from that.

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Like, okay, now I can help people.

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That's why the subtitle is my journey

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through the land of minds of ministry.

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And navigate those land.

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And then had her write a chapter, of course,

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because she went through the whole, the whole process as well.

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She almost quit too.

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Okay, now that just, that just terrifies me

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because if you remember in the scriptures where, for example,

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Moses would say to God, I can't stand these people.

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I want you to either kill them or kill me.

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I can't put up with them anymore.

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And then God talks Moses off the ledge.

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And then the next day God says, Moses,

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get out of the way, I'm going to kill all of them.

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They drive me crazy.

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And then Moses says, now God, what about your great name?

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Yeah, yeah.

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So thank God, they didn't agree on the same day.

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That's, that said, I can tell you that,

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Lisa and I thank God have never agreed on the same day

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about that, that type of stuff.

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And that's just the goodness of God balancing us

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because how many times have you gone home

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to hear her counsel to say, yeah, guess what?

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You don't have the permission to quit.

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Yeah.

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Well, when we were struggling, you remember,

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when I was going through this, I'm like,

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I need another sabbatical.

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You know, it's been like four or five years

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where I took like four months.

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I'm like, I need another one.

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And she's like, no, you don't.

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You need to, you need to just get back in there

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and preach as much as possible.

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Be there as much as possible.

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And that was the best advice to, you know, to just.

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Absolutely.

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Because you have to, some of these struggles,

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you have to fight through.

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That's how perseverance is developed.

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That's how now there's a boldness that came back.

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That I had with COVID when we talked

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during COVID, we opened our churches the same day.

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And that boldness is back, that fortitude,

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that strength that Lord has called me to do this.

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And so I think I had to go through that season

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as did she, to be able to just strengthen my faith

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and to help strengthen the faith of others.

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It was so powerful that I finally opened up.

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Was it April?

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On a Sunday, begin crying, sometimes explaining

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the books coming out.

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You guys need to know this because, you know,

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hey, I'm a squid, like people are surprised.

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But that started, you could hear the weeping

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throughout the congregation, right?

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The next Sunday, the first service alters full,

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like completely.

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We didn't, I didn't even go up to preach at the second.

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We just continued in worship for another hour and a half.

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People coming forward, it was just,

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that's revival.

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I was just going to say, that's the opening throw of revival.

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Absolutely.

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We would have never experienced that,

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but it came through so much brokenness and transparency.

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And that's why I think pastors need to get back to,

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you know, we've got one side, the woke cowardly,

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just, you know, political correct.

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But then we have the other side, you know,

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suit and tie, master's degree and divinity,

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and nothing wrong with that.

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But you know, it's just this pride and I don't struggle

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through anything, but we've got to find that brokenness

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and humility and allow the spirit of God to come upon you

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and preach from that reservoir of time spent with him.

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That's where powerful sermons come from.

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They don't come from just preparation.

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They come from the prayer closet.

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I just, Shane, I just love what you're saying,

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because in fact, that was recently asked this.

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And what you're saying is that the struggles of ministry

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are not only difficult, but they're necessary.

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And if we're honest with our scripture reading,

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we see Paul the Apostle being the most transparent,

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honest, powerful, weak, right, effective,

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but not seeing it, minister, I view it this way.

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I see Paul as being our New Testament example of ministry.

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Of course, Jesus encompasses all from Genesis to Revelation.

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Having said that, you look at Paul's life,

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and then in the Old Testament, I look at David.

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So transparent, so open,

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that he shares the deepest darkest thoughts

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and stuff of his life,

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while at the same time having incredible power.

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And how many times did we read in scripture

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where David wanted to give up?

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And he strengthened himself in the Lord.

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Or in one case, all of his mighty men of valor,

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I think it was Zickleg.

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It was such a devastation that they turned on him

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and they wanted to kill him.

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And David had nowhere to go,

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but it says, but he strengthened himself in the Lord.

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And so to keep from quitting,

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what did you do, or the both of you do,

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to get this book and its title to be what it is,

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what did God show you to do regarding not quitting?

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Well, chime in and then you can add to it,

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because it was a process,

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but I had to get to that point,

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because you can stay in the blame game.

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Oh, I don't know about you,

290
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but I have a defense attorney within.

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He likes to defend.

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That's a good idea.

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And, you know, I'm gonna keep that.

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You can use it, I'm sure I borrowed it from somebody.

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And so I said, Lord, this is wrong.

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The people don't, my look at the example

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I'm being from, I mean, I might start crying here.

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You know, when Dad comes home,

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doesn't want to preach anymore.

300
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I don't want to do this anymore.

301
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Scares them.

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You know, and I can see it in their eyes.

303
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And then, what would I tell people?

304
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What would I, and I know God's calling.

305
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And often, often the greater the calling,

306
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the more pain it's gonna produce.

307
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No, I think that's a fact.

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And AW Tozer before God uses a man greatly,

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he breaks him or hurts him deeply.

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Absolutely.

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And so it was just, in my journey, another breaking process.

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And so the turning point was repentant saying, Lord,

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this, I know this isn't right.

314
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I know you've called me to preach.

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I need that fire, the spirit back again, God, I need to,

316
00:13:30.920 --> 00:13:33.840
but I had, again, I know this is kind of a sidetrack,

317
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but with my food and diet,

318
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and I had it that was using comfort food as eating.

319
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And so once I discipline my body again,

320
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got back into fasting.

321
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So I went on, this whole thing about revival

322
00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:46.720
is a popular word right now.

323
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It's not gonna come through these great people,

324
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charging tons of money and let's get loud.

325
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It comes through deep brokenness and humility

326
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through the man of God that God calls,

327
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he puts his anointing on that man who's been broken by God.

328
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And that's where revival's gonna come from.

329
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:06.720
And so it revived our church, it revived our ministry.

330
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The book, that was done in two months, completely done.

331
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That's quick.

332
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Oh gosh.

333
00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:12.720
We were on a plane to Florida.

334
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That is amazing.

335
00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.840
And it was like, I feel like on the plane back from Florida,

336
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it was all the concepts were like there, the chapters almost.

337
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.360
It was, but then to write it took a little bit,

338
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but the whole idea of it was really quick.

339
00:14:25.680 --> 00:14:27.360
And then you opened up about, you were going through

340
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a lot of struggles too.

341
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Do you see me discouraged?

342
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.120
Yeah, that's rough.

343
00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:33.240
That's rough to watch, right?

344
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.440
For any spouse on either side.

345
00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:39.920
And so feeling it also for myself,

346
00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:43.160
but needing to encourage him and trying to find the balance

347
00:14:43.160 --> 00:14:44.880
of like you said, well, we can't both want to quit

348
00:14:44.880 --> 00:14:46.600
on the same day, that's not gonna work.

349
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Because we know we're not quitting.

350
00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:51.080
So Lord strengthen me to be a support to him

351
00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.240
while also crumbling a little bit inside my cell.

352
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.360
It was kind of a bizarre time and a lot of trials.

353
00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:58.680
We lost his mom.

354
00:15:00.920 --> 00:15:02.840
Life changed, there was just a lot.

355
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:05.280
And so I think what helped,

356
00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:10.160
in a sense helped me was realizing no one gets a pass.

357
00:15:10.160 --> 00:15:13.760
You read the word and life is hard for everyone.

358
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Choose your heart.

359
00:15:15.640 --> 00:15:18.080
We're either gonna, we quit, that's gonna be hard.

360
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:19.720
We say the course, that's gonna be hard.

361
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So choose your heart.

362
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And really when we, you know,

363
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:24.480
might sound a little cliche or whatever,

364
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:25.760
but like when you're barely holding on,

365
00:15:25.760 --> 00:15:27.560
make sure it's to the hem of his garment.

366
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So it's like when I was barely holding on like Lord,

367
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I feel like maybe I can't even hold on,

368
00:15:32.160 --> 00:15:35.000
but you're not gonna let go of me and us in this mentoring.

369
00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.560
You built this, it would make no sense for us to walk away

370
00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:41.280
from something that he's gifted, you know?

371
00:15:41.280 --> 00:15:44.160
So I mean, truly I don't,

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I don't know if I can't even put into words

373
00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:46.960
other than but God.

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00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:50.200
I mean, we wouldn't be here if he didn't hold it together.

375
00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.800
You're articulating spiritual realities that are must

376
00:15:54.800 --> 00:15:57.240
and that they are required in the Christian walk,

377
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.320
it's required as disciples and followers

378
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:02.440
to experience this stuff.

379
00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:07.000
For some reason, maybe it's all kinds of reasons

380
00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:10.440
of bad teaching, modern day, what Westernized Christianity

381
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.080
where, you know, if you're gonna follow God,

382
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.520
isn't it gonna be great?

383
00:16:14.520 --> 00:16:15.960
Your life's gonna be a push.

384
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:19.560
And Shane, I love what you said earlier about,

385
00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:21.440
if God and Tozer, you said it right,

386
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.600
how Tozer made that so vividly clear

387
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.840
that for God to use a man, you must break that man.

388
00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:29.680
And...

389
00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:30.880
But I know why to interrupt,

390
00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:33.800
but yeah, please, humility is so important.

391
00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:35.720
I think it's the key ingredient, missing ingredient

392
00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:39.720
because then you don't lash out as much at your congregation.

393
00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:41.960
You listen, you have that compassion,

394
00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:44.480
a heart that broke because God broke you.

395
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:46.560
Now you're more receptive, now you can help,

396
00:16:46.560 --> 00:16:48.520
you can weep with them, you can pray for them,

397
00:16:48.520 --> 00:16:51.200
you're not some superstar stepping up in the pulpit,

398
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.520
let me show you how polished this sermon is

399
00:16:53.520 --> 00:16:56.120
and how well, a thousand, a hundred thousand

400
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:57.800
followers on Instagram, and we've,

401
00:16:57.800 --> 00:16:59.040
I mean, we've gotta be real careful

402
00:16:59.040 --> 00:17:01.720
on this day and age we live in, you know.

403
00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:04.960
We live in an age of what I say is veneer.

404
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:06.400
Yes, it's kind of like the cover of this.

405
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:08.880
I assume this table has got wood somewhere,

406
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.520
I don't know for sure because it's covered

407
00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:12.960
with what maybe looks like wood.

408
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.680
I'm not sure if it's wood or not, it's veneer.

409
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:17.640
That said, a lot of people today,

410
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:18.760
they don't even realize it yet,

411
00:17:18.760 --> 00:17:21.640
but they're living a veneer Christianity.

412
00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:25.240
And what that means is to me is that

413
00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:27.600
it's been very, very convenient and safe

414
00:17:27.600 --> 00:17:29.000
for them to be believers.

415
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:31.120
They go to church and they leave

416
00:17:31.120 --> 00:17:33.200
and it's all fine and dandy and everything's great.

417
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.040
The money's coming in, kids are doing okay.

418
00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:38.720
I think the marriage is fine and all this kind of stuff.

419
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:41.960
And then they think they are, you know,

420
00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:43.360
that somehow they're pleasing God

421
00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:45.160
because that's why it's all good.

422
00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:47.760
I mean, that's twisted thinking, but it's human.

423
00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:50.440
Well, I must be pleasing God because everything's good.

424
00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:55.520
That falsehood shocks you because when,

425
00:17:55.520 --> 00:17:57.920
not a temptation, I'm not interested in temptation.

426
00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.360
Temptation comes from the enemy

427
00:17:59.360 --> 00:18:01.160
and from the world and from my flesh.

428
00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.000
God has made it very clear, we can resist temptation.

429
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.400
It all comes down to, do you love God?

430
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.680
Oh, I love God, okay, then resist temptation.

431
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:10.560
Fight it.

432
00:18:11.560 --> 00:18:15.240
The great challenge for us is trials.

433
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:17.320
Temptations from the world, the enemy and the flesh.

434
00:18:17.320 --> 00:18:19.120
Trials are engineered by God.

435
00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:21.000
Knowing that he's allowing.

436
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.000
Yeah.

437
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.640
He's going to, he's the one that's actually taking

438
00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:29.040
this part of your spiritual body and bending it

439
00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:32.440
or even as a rebellious lamb could be,

440
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:36.760
he'll break the back leg to draw that lamb closer to himself.

441
00:18:37.040 --> 00:18:41.000
And so I'm not concerned about the temptations.

442
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:44.520
It's me enduring the trials.

443
00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:47.120
And then he comes right back and says to us,

444
00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:48.640
Jack, it's tailor-made for you.

445
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:49.480
This is custom.

446
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.280
Well, it doesn't feel custom, right?

447
00:18:52.280 --> 00:18:53.920
And then Satan lies to us and says,

448
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.880
you know, you are the only one going through this.

449
00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:56.880
Yes.

450
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.320
I mean, he lies to us and tries to isolate us.

451
00:18:59.320 --> 00:19:01.120
And then the beautiful thing of all of that

452
00:19:01.120 --> 00:19:04.880
is at the end of it, you realize had that not happened.

453
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:07.000
I wouldn't have that sweet communion with him.

454
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.760
It's the very thing that I want to run from,

455
00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:11.440
push away from, get out of my life.

456
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:17.280
It's the very thing that he uses to bring me closer to him.

457
00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:20.760
I mean, that just the breaking is so hard.

458
00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:23.920
And even with our kids, like, as a mom,

459
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:25.200
I'm sure dads feel it, too.

460
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:27.080
But I don't know if mom's feel it even more.

461
00:19:27.080 --> 00:19:30.200
Like, I do not want to see them go through things.

462
00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.160
And he always reminds me they have to.

463
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.440
Like, if you want them to get to that point with the Lord,

464
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.280
that you want them to get to,

465
00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:41.680
he's going to break them one way or another.

466
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:43.160
And like, oh, Lord, just be easy.

467
00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:44.440
Go easy on him.

468
00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:45.280
But it's so true.

469
00:19:45.280 --> 00:19:46.320
Just looking back in my own life.

470
00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:47.520
And like, that's so true.

471
00:19:47.520 --> 00:19:49.680
If those things hadn't happened,

472
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:54.120
I wouldn't have that sweet communion with him as I do.

473
00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:57.680
And again, that's part of being a married Christian couple,

474
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.360
is that I think it's, because Lisa's the same way.

475
00:20:02.360 --> 00:20:05.000
But then you and I, we know.

476
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.960
Because we're coming from the guy's perspective.

477
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:10.040
You're coming from the mom's perspective.

478
00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:11.960
We're thinking, yeah, you know what?

479
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.360
I remember when I thought I could jump off the roof

480
00:20:14.360 --> 00:20:15.560
and not break my leg.

481
00:20:15.560 --> 00:20:19.120
And then I jumped off the roof and broke both my legs.

482
00:20:19.120 --> 00:20:22.360
That was the only way for me to learn how to stop

483
00:20:22.360 --> 00:20:24.560
jumping off of buildings.

484
00:20:24.560 --> 00:20:28.520
And it sounds almost cruel to where, well, you know,

485
00:20:28.520 --> 00:20:31.160
sweetheart, you got to let God, he's going to have to do

486
00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:32.160
with them.

487
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:33.160
And it's like, what?

488
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.800
Well, what we're trying to articulate is,

489
00:20:35.800 --> 00:20:39.200
is what, again, Tozer said, for God to use them,

490
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.400
they've got to be broken.

491
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.760
Our church is no stranger to me making this statement.

492
00:20:44.760 --> 00:20:48.600
And again, I think I've still on this front, Tozer,

493
00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:50.760
is that you must come.

494
00:20:50.760 --> 00:20:53.200
Everybody, please, you must evaluate your life

495
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:55.680
and make sure that you've come to that,

496
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.680
for what I call first encounter of a crisis of faith.

497
00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:03.800
Your faith has got to be tested or else,

498
00:21:03.800 --> 00:21:05.480
I'm not sure if you're a believer.

499
00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:06.560
Well, let me put it this way.

500
00:21:06.560 --> 00:21:08.560
You can be a believer.

501
00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:10.120
But do you have faith in Jesus Christ?

502
00:21:10.120 --> 00:21:12.760
Because Jesus said Himself in Matthew,

503
00:21:12.760 --> 00:21:14.760
that these are they who believe for a while,

504
00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:17.040
but they go back into the world when persecution comes.

505
00:21:17.040 --> 00:21:19.800
They didn't lose their salvation, they never had it.

506
00:21:19.800 --> 00:21:22.080
They just believed because it was convenient.

507
00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:27.080
Does your belief, so to speak, drive you over to faith?

508
00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:30.400
And the only way of faith is going to be born into us,

509
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.120
is trust, exactly, we've got to be tested,

510
00:21:33.120 --> 00:21:34.560
so that we can trust.

511
00:21:34.560 --> 00:21:36.520
You know what, the irony is,

512
00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:40.720
it was such a special time, 3am to 6am,

513
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.280
every morning, worship, just seeking the Lord.

514
00:21:44.280 --> 00:21:47.040
And there's an interesting verse, at least for me,

515
00:21:47.040 --> 00:21:51.200
I wrote it down, I just highlighted it, I meditated,

516
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.400
and it's that verse,

517
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:55.200
and you know, verse just jumps out,

518
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.640
and I actually put down the Bible,

519
00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.800
I think I begin to even just cry at that,

520
00:22:01.800 --> 00:22:06.640
and just, but it says he said his face like a flint.

521
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:10.520
And I'm like, that's about the cross, right?

522
00:22:10.520 --> 00:22:12.720
Of course, Calvary, but I'm like,

523
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.040
if he did, why not me?

524
00:22:15.040 --> 00:22:18.760
Why not, no matter if the ministry dies,

525
00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:20.200
if it sinks, he must increase.

526
00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:22.880
I'm like, if I'm going to stay here in this spot,

527
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.280
no matter, and you just set your face like a flint,

528
00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:27.240
and there's so much joy that follows,

529
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.880
because joy, remember, is not what's happening to you.

530
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:31.680
That's right.

531
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:32.840
Happiness is happening.

532
00:22:32.840 --> 00:22:37.000
Joy is an internal love for the Lord or relationship,

533
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:39.600
no matter, and then Job, of course, though he slay me,

534
00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:41.200
yes, yet why trust him?

535
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:43.120
When you get to those spots,

536
00:22:43.120 --> 00:22:44.840
not much can knock you off course,

537
00:22:44.840 --> 00:22:46.960
and something we have not touched on yet,

538
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:50.000
that we need to is, fortunately,

539
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.320
he brought me from pastoring a little church,

540
00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:54.920
medium-sized church, now it's a large church,

541
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.720
but you also have that how we measure each other,

542
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:03.000
mega, how many followers, how many Instagram,

543
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.080
and what school did you go to, what's your budget?

544
00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:07.400
I'm like, what do people ask me?

545
00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:08.280
What's it have to do with anything?

546
00:23:08.280 --> 00:23:12.040
So we've got this concept that bigger is better,

547
00:23:12.040 --> 00:23:15.000
and so that kind of really, in my mind too,

548
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.800
oh Lord, is there somewhere out like,

549
00:23:16.800 --> 00:23:21.800
is this all, aren't we supposed to be this massive?

550
00:23:22.320 --> 00:23:23.960
But then you realize demographics,

551
00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:26.840
different demographics, different graphics,

552
00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:28.200
playing a huge role in that,

553
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.920
and but we do, we measure ourself,

554
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:33.360
I came out of the business world,

555
00:23:33.360 --> 00:23:34.200
I don't know if you know this,

556
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.440
but I was a corporate executive of 24-hour fitness,

557
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:38.600
so I'd met multiple fitness centers,

558
00:23:38.600 --> 00:23:40.800
and that's how we rate its success by numbers,

559
00:23:40.800 --> 00:23:44.200
I'd beat myself every year, 6% same-store growth.

560
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.760
So I've got this in, you know, got a build, got a build,

561
00:23:46.760 --> 00:23:49.360
got a build, got a build, and got a, no, no, no.

562
00:23:49.600 --> 00:23:52.480
Maybe where you're at is where you're gonna be

563
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.920
for the rest of your life, and I'm ready to die there.

564
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.440
But if you don't deal with that, you think,

565
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.760
and I talked to so many pastors with smaller,

566
00:24:02.760 --> 00:24:06.040
and the rating success by numbers

567
00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:09.040
were God rates it by faithfulness.

568
00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:11.600
Now granted, God will grow the Chino Hills,

569
00:24:11.600 --> 00:24:14.120
and the MacArthur's Churches, and David Jeremiah's,

570
00:24:14.120 --> 00:24:16.840
and you know, because there's nothing,

571
00:24:16.840 --> 00:24:19.040
there's nothing about the size at all,

572
00:24:19.080 --> 00:24:21.480
but we get focused, at least a lot of the,

573
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:24.400
they think they're not sick, man, I'm only at 100 people,

574
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.760
I don't know what's going on, what do you,

575
00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:28.200
let me tell you, there's MacArthur's Churches,

576
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.160
I could name names right now, they are so far from God,

577
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:33.080
they're not leading their people to the cross,

578
00:24:33.080 --> 00:24:37.160
they've compromised their woke, you are in a much better position

579
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.320
than that person overseeing 10,000 people,

580
00:24:39.320 --> 00:24:41.480
don't get caught up in the numbers game.

581
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:43.160
I really appreciate what you're saying,

582
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:47.400
and I think this podcast is gonna be very beneficial

583
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.040
for a lot of reasons, but one of them is,

584
00:24:50.040 --> 00:24:54.200
I love what you just said, people can relate to that,

585
00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:58.720
and I don't even know how, I've never articulated this before,

586
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.080
so you're forcing me to do this.

587
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:08.480
The pendulum for me is on the other side, meaning,

588
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:13.480
I have, if I'm guilty of complaining to God,

589
00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:18.840
it's regarding one string on my guitar, and it's this,

590
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.360
I have resisted church growth, I have,

591
00:25:24.360 --> 00:25:26.840
from the beginning, when we were a home Bible study

592
00:25:26.840 --> 00:25:29.920
from Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa in those days,

593
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:34.920
I literally would, when we had 25 people in the living room,

594
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:39.960
it was so sweet to me and so, and I love knowing people's names,

595
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:44.000
and I love meeting them and knowing them,

596
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.920
that I ask them, I literally ask them,

597
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:51.120
don't tell anyone else about our Monday night,

598
00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:54.080
they can go to their other, and it just grew,

599
00:25:54.080 --> 00:25:57.720
and I have to tell you, I did not like it,

600
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:01.760
I had pastors tell me, you oughta be freaking out

601
00:26:01.760 --> 00:26:03.960
with excitement right now.

602
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.600
I thought, well, here's another part where I'm weird and wrong,

603
00:26:07.600 --> 00:26:11.160
I'm not seeing this, and I feel like I'm, you know,

604
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.520
upsetting God because I'm not happy about the growth,

605
00:26:14.520 --> 00:26:17.200
and even to this day, if this church,

606
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.160
I'm good with this church going down to 100 people,

607
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.080
my point is this, though, you said it,

608
00:26:24.080 --> 00:26:29.080
is I don't care if I preach to 10,000 adults

609
00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:33.760
every Sunday, what I care about is,

610
00:26:33.760 --> 00:26:38.760
will a hundred of them be discipled across the finish line?

611
00:26:40.360 --> 00:26:45.360
Because the numbers in ministry, numbers can deceive you.

612
00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:47.640
And we learned that during COVID,

613
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.480
when we were open during COVID,

614
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:51.240
people were flocking to the church,

615
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:53.280
and they were literally saying to me,

616
00:26:54.360 --> 00:26:55.920
hey, I'm really glad you're open,

617
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.400
I'm the board member of so and so church,

618
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:00.840
I'm not gonna name the names, people know the names.

619
00:27:00.840 --> 00:27:05.600
And so, you know, here I am to serve,

620
00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:09.120
and then two weeks later, the same man comes back and says,

621
00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:11.840
did I understand you right today?

622
00:27:11.840 --> 00:27:15.480
When you said, I must be born again,

623
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.560
to enter the kingdom of it, I was shocked.

624
00:27:19.560 --> 00:27:22.080
This guy's a board member of a world-renowned church,

625
00:27:22.080 --> 00:27:25.440
and he was, he had never heard that he had to be born again.

626
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.360
How is that?

627
00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:28.000
How is that possible?

628
00:27:28.040 --> 00:27:29.360
Because you know what?

629
00:27:29.360 --> 00:27:32.000
They came from a church with numbers,

630
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.520
and the ministry teaching style was to preserve the numbers.

631
00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:39.720
And so knowingly or unknowingly,

632
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:42.920
they watered it down in such a way to keep the numbers.

633
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:46.920
When I believe that you should deliver God's word

634
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:51.240
in such a way that with whimsomeness, with respect,

635
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:55.400
with love, and with honor to the flock,

636
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.360
do everything you can to empty the seats of your church.

637
00:27:58.360 --> 00:27:59.960
What do I mean?

638
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:02.560
Jesus said this, and I believe this with all of my heart,

639
00:28:02.560 --> 00:28:05.440
I could, this is a hill for me to die on.

640
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.960
Jesus said, my sheep hear my voice, they follow me.

641
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:11.760
I don't need church growth tactics,

642
00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:13.720
I don't need church growth seminars.

643
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:17.720
If I am faithful to give them his word,

644
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:21.920
then he will bring and delete those that are his and not his.

645
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:25.800
I mean, you two just say so many of the same things.

646
00:28:25.800 --> 00:28:27.960
Well, but I think too, that's why with Chino Hills,

647
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:32.240
I believe in other churches, our do grow is because God honors,

648
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.760
it's not your desire.

649
00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:34.600
That's right.

650
00:28:34.600 --> 00:28:37.440
God brings where other pastors, maybe even myself,

651
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.080
if you're rating it by that, God might keep you

652
00:28:41.080 --> 00:28:44.080
where you're at until you deal with that pride issue.

653
00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:47.160
Because for me, I had low self-esteem.

654
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:49.080
Came from a very angry home.

655
00:28:49.080 --> 00:28:51.840
My dad was from the Farms of Oklahoma.

656
00:28:51.840 --> 00:28:53.960
My dad was from the Farms of South Dakota.

657
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:54.800
Really, okay.

658
00:28:54.800 --> 00:28:56.840
So I think I'm feeling like a man.

659
00:28:56.840 --> 00:28:58.360
And it was boy, you don't cry.

660
00:28:58.360 --> 00:28:59.360
You do not cry.

661
00:28:59.360 --> 00:29:00.360
You do not cry.

662
00:29:00.360 --> 00:29:02.480
And so I don't know, I told my mom, she goes,

663
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:05.800
oh, she passed away during COVID, not of COVID.

664
00:29:07.040 --> 00:29:09.440
But that's all I'm gonna say.

665
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:10.280
Don't give me started.

666
00:29:10.280 --> 00:29:13.040
I almost drove to Idaho because they would not let my family

667
00:29:13.040 --> 00:29:13.960
visit. Of course.

668
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:16.240
And she's 40 feet away, dying in the emergency room.

669
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.320
Stupidest time ever in America.

670
00:29:18.320 --> 00:29:19.080
By far.

671
00:29:19.080 --> 00:29:21.160
So back on track.

672
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.720
So I was taught that.

673
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.480
And I told my mom, I don't know if you ever said I love you.

674
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:26.680
And she goes, oh, no, I'm sure he did.

675
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.000
And dad, look at, you know, just all-star picture

676
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.160
and just never, people can't believe it probably,

677
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:38.360
but just wanting your dad to appreciate you.

678
00:29:38.360 --> 00:29:41.240
And so I think with some of us, like with me,

679
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:46.080
I measured bigger church growth, okay, I've succeeded.

680
00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:49.120
God, and you look at God the same way you do your father.

681
00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:50.280
And so he really had to do it.

682
00:29:50.280 --> 00:29:53.200
And I had to get to a point because we're, and I love it.

683
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.200
It's funny. We go back.

684
00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:56.040
I'm like, I'm quite comfortable.

685
00:29:56.040 --> 00:29:57.840
I love, I don't want more.

686
00:29:57.840 --> 00:29:59.600
Because there is something nice with, you know,

687
00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:01.880
we're in the rolling hills of Leon of Alley.

688
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:04.520
Tuck back in these beautiful oak trees and like.

689
00:30:04.520 --> 00:30:05.360
Gorgeous.

690
00:30:05.360 --> 00:30:08.320
But then there's, you always feel, you know, like,

691
00:30:08.320 --> 00:30:09.360
Lord is there more?

692
00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:10.480
Is there, did I miss it?

693
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:13.600
Am I, am I not really a pastor if I'm not, you know,

694
00:30:13.600 --> 00:30:14.440
a mega church?

695
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:16.040
Do you think too much?

696
00:30:16.040 --> 00:30:17.800
Yeah, overanalyzed for sure.

697
00:30:17.800 --> 00:30:19.600
You do, his brain never shut down.

698
00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:20.600
Yeah, yeah.

699
00:30:20.600 --> 00:30:23.160
And so, but back to, I think, how I was raised in that,

700
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.520
that, and that's why criticism hurts me more than it should.

701
00:30:27.560 --> 00:30:29.160
I know she don't read your comments ever.

702
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:30.000
No, I do not.

703
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.800
That's, I'm, I started that.

704
00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:33.120
That really helps.

705
00:30:33.120 --> 00:30:37.640
I'm going to be very transparent with you guys is when

706
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:41.800
the young people around me said, you need social media.

707
00:30:42.760 --> 00:30:44.360
I didn't even know what that was.

708
00:30:44.360 --> 00:30:49.280
So I started out and then the first hour, I looked at some things

709
00:30:49.280 --> 00:30:51.680
and there were some things that were so honestly stooping

710
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:54.640
and ridiculous that it was so not true.

711
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:58.320
And immediately by God's grace, it hurt me.

712
00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:01.600
And I had no ability to deal with it.

713
00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:03.800
Because I couldn't call them.

714
00:31:03.800 --> 00:31:05.040
I couldn't reach out to them.

715
00:31:05.040 --> 00:31:07.640
And even if I could, that type of comment,

716
00:31:08.840 --> 00:31:10.160
there's no winning them back.

717
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.640
And then wait, winning them to what?

718
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.320
And they don't want your answer.

719
00:31:14.320 --> 00:31:17.280
They're 24 years old living in their mom's basement

720
00:31:17.360 --> 00:31:19.280
in Vermont or wherever.

721
00:31:19.280 --> 00:31:21.680
And they're critical of you.

722
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.160
And so that, because of a person low self-esteem,

723
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:28.400
I take criticism like that was like wearing army too.

724
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.480
And people that would, you know, you get 10 times more criticism.

725
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:33.720
But the end you're bold, you're bold pastor

726
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:35.840
in this political climate.

727
00:31:35.840 --> 00:31:38.920
And you got, it just so the criticism weighed on me more

728
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:40.400
than it should.

729
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:42.480
And then the, you know, the numbers game, right?

730
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.800
Rating success by certain things.

731
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.240
And so it was a great breaking point.

732
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.080
It was a great, and I encourage pastors

733
00:31:50.080 --> 00:31:53.400
submit to the breaking university later.

734
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:55.960
Brace it, repent, repent and say, Lord,

735
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:57.800
I want the refreshing of the spirit again.

736
00:31:57.800 --> 00:31:59.320
I want those rivers of living water.

737
00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:00.160
I don't care.

738
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:02.040
My sermons need to come from the prayer closet.

739
00:32:02.040 --> 00:32:05.560
God revive me again and watch what he does, you know?

740
00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:06.640
Man, I love that.

741
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.120
And I know this is a podcast for some other day,

742
00:32:09.120 --> 00:32:11.800
but I'm afraid we'll never remember this again.

743
00:32:11.800 --> 00:32:13.240
You said it right there.

744
00:32:13.600 --> 00:32:18.600
Where the brokenness, the brokenness is where

745
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.800
true foundations and strength and victory is had.

746
00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:26.600
And you might see, Jack, you're insane.

747
00:32:26.600 --> 00:32:28.440
You just said brokenness and foundations.

748
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.160
That cannot, that's like oxymoronic thinking.

749
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:34.040
No, in Christianity, it's exactly how it works.

750
00:32:34.040 --> 00:32:36.920
The great foundations are laid by brokenness.

751
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:40.720
Having said that, I remember going to some,

752
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:42.960
it was when Mill Gibson was launching

753
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.960
the Passion of the Christ, and they were hosting it

754
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.720
at Saddleback Church.

755
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.960
And Rick Warren, of course, that was his church at the time.

756
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.160
And during that whole presentation,

757
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.800
Rick Warren said something that I've never forgotten,

758
00:32:59.800 --> 00:33:01.640
because honestly, it was so offensive.

759
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:06.520
He said, oh, with Easter coming up, everybody,

760
00:33:06.520 --> 00:33:08.960
if you just go to pastor.com,

761
00:33:09.800 --> 00:33:13.600
you can download my sermons, all my sermons are there,

762
00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:15.840
and you can preach and teach my sermons.

763
00:33:15.840 --> 00:33:18.800
It's like $25 a year, pastor.com,

764
00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:20.320
and you can preach my sermons,

765
00:33:20.320 --> 00:33:23.160
and you can think about using those for Easter.

766
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.480
I was so offended in that crowd,

767
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.760
because I had been trained by Czech Smith.

768
00:33:30.760 --> 00:33:34.560
You go hide, you go hide away,

769
00:33:34.560 --> 00:33:37.360
and though we were taught to have our stack

770
00:33:37.360 --> 00:33:41.040
of great commentaries from preachers of yesterday year,

771
00:33:41.040 --> 00:33:43.720
this is how I was brought up, and I'm so grateful

772
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:46.920
that you go alone with God.

773
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:50.200
My first approach to scripture is reading the Bible

774
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:51.760
of where we're going to be this coming Sunday.

775
00:33:51.760 --> 00:33:53.240
You read, you read it, you read it,

776
00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:55.000
then you circle key words,

777
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.760
and then I have a notebook, and I'm writing things down,

778
00:33:57.760 --> 00:33:59.760
and then there's somewhat of a skeleton

779
00:33:59.760 --> 00:34:02.240
that begins to be constructed,

780
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:04.040
and then God prompts verses,

781
00:34:04.040 --> 00:34:05.840
oh, this verse for this application,

782
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:08.600
for this point, and it's coming together,

783
00:34:08.600 --> 00:34:11.400
and when you have, it may be on paper,

784
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:13.560
or for the young folks on their computers,

785
00:34:13.560 --> 00:34:14.400
it doesn't matter.

786
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.160
You've got all these pages that are out there,

787
00:34:17.160 --> 00:34:22.160
that it's not until I have my message that God has given me,

788
00:34:23.560 --> 00:34:26.400
that's the only way I can be excited about the message.

789
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:27.560
So people will say to me,

790
00:34:27.560 --> 00:34:29.320
oh my gosh, you're so excited about the message,

791
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.440
or you're so animated about the message.

792
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.000
I don't even realize I am until I realize,

793
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:38.040
well guess what, I was just given this from the kitchen,

794
00:34:38.040 --> 00:34:39.480
as it were from the Lord,

795
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:41.440
and I can't wait to shout this.

796
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:45.040
And I don't consult the commentaries,

797
00:34:45.040 --> 00:34:46.480
again, I'm taking the Chucksmith,

798
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:48.200
Pastor Chucksmith models, you're done.

799
00:34:48.200 --> 00:34:51.400
Exactly, I look at the greats that were before us

800
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:53.880
to confirm my theology's correct,

801
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:55.320
but when I go into this sermon,

802
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:57.320
when I go into the message of the pulpit,

803
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:01.240
it is, you can hear the plate sizzling on my heart, right?

804
00:35:01.240 --> 00:35:02.160
Being served up,

805
00:35:03.120 --> 00:35:03.960
but when somebody said,

806
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.440
oh, you can just preach my sermon for 25 bucks.

807
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.200
I thought, is this America?

808
00:35:09.200 --> 00:35:10.840
Is this the church today?

809
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:12.160
Because it's not the church today.

810
00:35:12.160 --> 00:35:13.920
That's my exact sermon prep.

811
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.240
Everything was just said.

812
00:35:15.240 --> 00:35:17.160
I've got Post-it notes, I've got pages,

813
00:35:17.160 --> 00:35:18.840
this scripture leaps out like how am I put,

814
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.800
and then when it comes together, it's like you've...

815
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:22.640
Like you're pregnant.

816
00:35:22.640 --> 00:35:24.320
I don't say sometimes, I have to give birth.

817
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.280
I say that, I have to give birth to,

818
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:27.720
and when you do, you drive home like,

819
00:35:27.720 --> 00:35:29.040
oh, that felt good.

820
00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:31.040
Because you know the spirit of the living God,

821
00:35:31.040 --> 00:35:33.080
and you're just, you're taking rabbit trails,

822
00:35:33.080 --> 00:35:34.840
and people are convicted,

823
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:37.080
and we got our prayer room is full,

824
00:35:37.080 --> 00:35:39.240
and you got, man, just the spirit of God moved,

825
00:35:39.240 --> 00:35:40.880
because he spoke to you individually.

826
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:43.440
And then for me, see, now listen, for me,

827
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.520
that's the kind of stuff that gets me back

828
00:35:46.520 --> 00:35:48.920
into the pulpit on Wednesdays and Sundays.

829
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:51.120
That brings me back, because you,

830
00:35:51.120 --> 00:35:55.040
you may not feel it, you may not feel it,

831
00:35:55.040 --> 00:35:56.480
because you've got a thousand different thoughts

832
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.400
and feelings and people calling and saying,

833
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.320
you're a bonehead and whatever's going on,

834
00:36:01.240 --> 00:36:04.640
but it's Jeremiah.

835
00:36:04.640 --> 00:36:07.000
It's Bernie, it's gotta get out.

836
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:10.200
And you, and I want to suggest this to you,

837
00:36:10.200 --> 00:36:12.360
and though you already know this, I'm sure in the spirit.

838
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:16.160
You mentioned, you opened up by saying about how it was

839
00:36:16.160 --> 00:36:18.840
so difficult to go to the pulpit and you felt like quitting,

840
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:20.520
and then it's horrible on the way home,

841
00:36:20.520 --> 00:36:22.520
because you know we preach our breath sermons.

842
00:36:22.520 --> 00:36:23.520
On the way home.

843
00:36:23.520 --> 00:36:24.840
Yeah, on the way home.

844
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:25.840
What did I say that?

845
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:26.840
Why did I say that?

846
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:30.880
What's, but the great thing about

847
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.880
what you're saying is obedience is quite possibly

848
00:36:37.640 --> 00:36:40.880
the most beautiful form of worship.

849
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:42.360
I think that there's out there today.

850
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:45.920
It's not the goosebumps because the song is just the right,

851
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:48.400
and the temperature of the sanctuary is just right.

852
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.680
Share obedience.

853
00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:53.440
You know people talk to you and I and talk about you and I,

854
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:58.440
as though we're somehow some sort of teflon pastors

855
00:36:58.680 --> 00:37:02.440
because we open the doors to the church,

856
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:04.000
during COVID and all this kind of stuff,

857
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.600
and we get all kinds of, oh, you're the pastor,

858
00:37:06.600 --> 00:37:08.080
that's courageous, and I have to stop this.

859
00:37:08.080 --> 00:37:09.240
It stops, please stop right there.

860
00:37:09.240 --> 00:37:12.440
You don't understand how, how pathetically weak it is.

861
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:13.000
Forage was gonna say,

862
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.600
current courage doesn't mean lack of fear.

863
00:37:15.600 --> 00:37:16.640
Exactly.

864
00:37:16.640 --> 00:37:17.480
Oh, I love it.

865
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:19.960
We've been in the midst of the fear,

866
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.760
but you are, you know where your strength comes from.

867
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:24.000
He said, be strong and courageous.

868
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:24.840
Awesome.

869
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:26.960
So you know, okay, I might be,

870
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:28.880
there might be some, you know, trepidation here,

871
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:30.800
but we're gonna plow for it.

872
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:31.720
Listen to this.

873
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:35.480
One of the founding fathers of Delta Force,

874
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:38.520
Dr. Jerry Boykin, oh yeah, yeah.

875
00:37:38.520 --> 00:37:43.520
Said that in this case,

876
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:47.240
ministry, and he was talking about military,

877
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:52.640
that courage is the management,

878
00:37:52.640 --> 00:37:54.760
the proper management of fear.

879
00:37:55.720 --> 00:37:57.880
Courage is the proper management of fear.

880
00:37:57.880 --> 00:37:59.720
So everyone would say,

881
00:37:59.720 --> 00:38:01.880
oh, Pastor Shane, I fear so bad,

882
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:05.320
I'm so intimidated, I'm terrified,

883
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.040
I feel like quitting, wait a minute.

884
00:38:08.040 --> 00:38:12.800
You wanna defeat that this way, manage it, use it.

885
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:14.840
Well, Satan says I stink.

886
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:19.320
You can remind Satan, Satan, you did tell me that,

887
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:21.000
but I do know you're a liar,

888
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:22.440
so that's very encouraging to me.

889
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:23.560
You're already defeated.

890
00:38:23.560 --> 00:38:26.880
You're already defeated, so I'm gonna take that from you,

891
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.520
and you manage that.

892
00:38:28.520 --> 00:38:31.800
So it's not like you and I were like, you know,

893
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:34.720
Teflon coated pastures during the COVID era,

894
00:38:34.720 --> 00:38:39.880
it was in white knuckle, sheer dry mouth, obedience,

895
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:41.600
and the craziest time ever.

896
00:38:41.600 --> 00:38:43.200
I upset people no matter what I did.

897
00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:44.200
I gotta ask you a question.

898
00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:45.040
That was pretty wild.

899
00:38:45.040 --> 00:38:47.680
I've never asked this of a pastor before,

900
00:38:47.680 --> 00:38:50.440
with all that has happened post COVID.

901
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.640
Would you do COVID again all over again?

902
00:38:55.600 --> 00:38:58.840
Meaning, knowing what you know,

903
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:02.120
if you could back up and redo it all,

904
00:39:02.120 --> 00:39:03.120
the last, you know,

905
00:39:03.120 --> 00:39:04.720
I wanna do it the same way.

906
00:39:04.720 --> 00:39:06.560
Would you do it the same way?

907
00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:09.120
Would you, would you, I know exactly.

908
00:39:09.120 --> 00:39:10.920
Because I know what my answer is.

909
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:13.840
Yeah, well first, if you remember, you texted me

910
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.080
like a month during COVID, you said,

911
00:39:16.080 --> 00:39:18.120
when you think of opening, I said,

912
00:39:18.120 --> 00:39:20.000
I think we agreed on May 31st,

913
00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:22.000
and I said, hey, that's Pentecost Sunday.

914
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.080
You told me later.

915
00:39:23.080 --> 00:39:24.120
Yeah, oh later, okay.

916
00:39:24.120 --> 00:39:25.800
We were communicating.

917
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:28.400
And it was on April 26th at the Lord's book

918
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.600
to my heart from Revelation chapter three, crystal clear.

919
00:39:31.600 --> 00:39:33.720
And then we were texting.

920
00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:36.600
And I said something about May 31st,

921
00:39:36.600 --> 00:39:38.600
and then you later, I have the thread.

922
00:39:38.600 --> 00:39:41.640
You later said, you do know that that's Palm Sunday, right?

923
00:39:41.640 --> 00:39:42.480
Pentecost.

924
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:43.320
Or Pentecost Sunday.

925
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:47.280
And I said, I did not know, and so that,

926
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.120
your word coming back to me,

927
00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:51.480
somebody might say, what's the big deal?

928
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:52.720
Who cares?

929
00:39:52.720 --> 00:39:54.480
Hey, you were there at the moment.

930
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.720
When you text me back and said, oh my gosh,

931
00:39:57.720 --> 00:40:00.120
the Lord impressed upon my heart May 31st,

932
00:40:00.120 --> 00:40:03.520
and Shane text me and says, it's Pentecost that day.

933
00:40:03.520 --> 00:40:08.520
It's like, oh God, you are so amazing to this point.

934
00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:10.520
This is beautiful.

935
00:40:10.520 --> 00:40:12.400
This is like what John MacArthur said

936
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.360
about the pulpit for the pastor.

937
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:15.960
We are chained to the pulpit.

938
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:20.080
The chains may be velvet, but we're chained nonetheless.

939
00:40:20.080 --> 00:40:20.960
What a great word.

940
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.200
With what you had said and what the Lord had impressed

941
00:40:24.200 --> 00:40:25.040
upon my heart.

942
00:40:25.040 --> 00:40:28.320
So this is the confirmation where here's the beauty of it.

943
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:29.880
If somebody tried, and they did,

944
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:32.520
if somebody tried to talk me out of that day,

945
00:40:32.520 --> 00:40:33.880
it was impossible.

946
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:36.400
You mentioned sitting in your face like Flint.

947
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:38.360
People told me, well, what about this other day

948
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:40.120
because we can open up and we can have,

949
00:40:40.120 --> 00:40:42.280
we can do this and have flyers and the other thing.

950
00:40:43.240 --> 00:40:45.520
Nope, it was this.

951
00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:49.360
And the beautiful thing was that if I were to,

952
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:54.360
if I would have said, okay, we'll do that some other week.

953
00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:56.640
I knew that I would have been sitting.

954
00:40:57.680 --> 00:40:59.320
It was that crystal clear.

955
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.200
I, wow, could not, I could not waver.

956
00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:05.000
And people, I get it, even people close to me.

957
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:06.360
You're being stubborn about this.

958
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:08.160
You're being, you have no idea.

959
00:41:08.160 --> 00:41:10.640
And it was one of those moments where, Lord,

960
00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:12.840
I'm not even sure if I agree with it.

961
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.560
But I'm gonna follow you.

962
00:41:15.560 --> 00:41:16.400
And I love it.

963
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:19.840
So my answer is, I wouldn't change a thing.

964
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:21.320
That's what I was gonna say.

965
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:24.800
I would actually be more, that's right, you know.

966
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:26.240
Well, let's do, let's, you know,

967
00:41:26.240 --> 00:41:28.120
let's pass out mask in case they want.

968
00:41:28.120 --> 00:41:29.640
Let's, let's, this is bold.

969
00:41:29.640 --> 00:41:32.400
I'm not putting up with any of this shenanigans.

970
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:33.560
We certainly have.

971
00:41:33.560 --> 00:41:35.920
But, you know, it was, no matter what you did,

972
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:36.960
you're upsetting people.

973
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:40.520
You've got the, you know, the max, there's not maskered.

974
00:41:40.520 --> 00:41:42.360
Why you open, why you open and we were called,

975
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:44.560
like you probably were the rebellious church.

976
00:41:44.560 --> 00:41:45.400
Oh, yeah.

977
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.240
And I talked to pastors.

978
00:41:46.240 --> 00:41:48.360
I love, you, you probably heard this too.

979
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:50.760
Well, our insurance won't cover us.

980
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:52.160
Like our insurance won't cover us.

981
00:41:52.160 --> 00:41:53.360
Oh gosh.

982
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:55.480
Well, well, there you go, there you go.

983
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:58.120
Yeah, stop ministry, the insurance won't cover us.

984
00:41:58.120 --> 00:42:00.280
I said, the early church had no problem with that.

985
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:01.280
Yeah.

986
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:03.760
So yeah, Romans 13, of course, and many churches

987
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:05.880
stayed to close the year in our area.

988
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:07.800
But of course, Romans, the context is,

989
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:10.240
when the government is obviously disobeying God.

990
00:42:10.240 --> 00:42:11.080
There you go.

991
00:42:11.080 --> 00:42:13.520
And you see abortion clinics, pot shops,

992
00:42:13.520 --> 00:42:14.520
street clubs.

993
00:42:14.520 --> 00:42:16.280
It's like, okay, that's enough enough.

994
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:17.120
Yeah.

995
00:42:17.120 --> 00:42:19.320
Isn't amazing because I petitioned directly,

996
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:20.920
Newsom, to please make a comment,

997
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:23.360
make a public statement, because you notice,

998
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:26.640
you guys remember this, that he declared

999
00:42:26.640 --> 00:42:28.280
what was essential and non-essential

1000
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:30.840
and he never brought up once the houses of worship.

1001
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:31.680
Yeah.

1002
00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:33.760
So immediately we contacted his office and said,

1003
00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:35.320
you've got to make a statement.

1004
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:36.240
I didn't care what he said.

1005
00:42:36.240 --> 00:42:37.080
Anyway.

1006
00:42:37.080 --> 00:42:38.240
You've got to make a statement.

1007
00:42:38.240 --> 00:42:42.920
His, I viewed it this way, his unwillingness

1008
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.840
to address houses of worship directly, to me,

1009
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:49.760
I viewed that as go time.

1010
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:50.760
Yeah.

1011
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:53.000
It means that there is something in his life

1012
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:57.960
that is a little dimple in his armor.

1013
00:42:57.960 --> 00:42:59.960
And so I sent him a video saying,

1014
00:42:59.960 --> 00:43:01.760
we're gonna open with all due respect, sir,

1015
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:04.000
allow us to be the church in California,

1016
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:06.000
can assist you in some of the great needs.

1017
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.000
Yes.

1018
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:08.640
And all that came to pass, but he did not agree.

1019
00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:09.840
Yeah, he could have done that so different.

1020
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:10.680
Yeah, I agree.

1021
00:43:10.680 --> 00:43:11.520
Absolutely.

1022
00:43:11.520 --> 00:43:15.440
But listen, you got to, with the time that we have,

1023
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:16.800
keep jumping in on this book,

1024
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:18.440
everybody needs to get this book

1025
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:23.440
because all of us are prone to wanting to quit.

1026
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:26.800
So speak to us about how, how did it,

1027
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:28.640
at all affect your marriage and these things,

1028
00:43:28.640 --> 00:43:30.640
you shared a little bit about that.

1029
00:43:31.640 --> 00:43:33.960
Yeah, do you want to, yeah.

1030
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:35.760
Just regarding the hard season.

1031
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.920
Yeah, I think it can't not when, you know,

1032
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.280
we joke, he's going through mid-life crisis.

1033
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:42.600
I'm starting to go through, you know,

1034
00:43:42.600 --> 00:43:44.640
the change of life on the, on the woman's side.

1035
00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:46.640
And so you've got all these things,

1036
00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:49.480
aside from life, you've got hormones going out of whack.

1037
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:50.880
We've got kids growing up.

1038
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:52.760
We've got, we had one child,

1039
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:53.760
who's horrible too.

1040
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:56.920
We had one child later in life that came, you know,

1041
00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:58.720
at the tail end, so we've got a 20 year old,

1042
00:43:58.720 --> 00:44:00.960
down to a six year old, and everything in between.

1043
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.960
And so we've got, you know, teenagers going

1044
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.880
to a young adulthood and a taught, it was a wild time.

1045
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:08.480
And she wanted to go to church all the time.

1046
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:10.120
All the time, I didn't want to go to church.

1047
00:44:10.120 --> 00:44:11.720
I just love, I just want to win.

1048
00:44:11.720 --> 00:44:12.560
I was done.

1049
00:44:12.560 --> 00:44:15.040
Can we just get us leaving back and just be there all the time?

1050
00:44:15.040 --> 00:44:17.160
I don't want to run into people, I don't want some people.

1051
00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:20.120
So, and then, you know, the other challenges,

1052
00:44:20.120 --> 00:44:22.720
like I said earlier, losing his mom, COVID,

1053
00:44:22.720 --> 00:44:25.000
it's really been a few years of just,

1054
00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:27.800
it's so weird and interesting too,

1055
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:29.760
because when you step back and look, it's like,

1056
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:31.880
okay, in the grand scheme of life,

1057
00:44:33.080 --> 00:44:34.880
everything was fine.

1058
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:35.720
You know what I mean?

1059
00:44:35.720 --> 00:44:38.120
Like, people have got it so much harder.

1060
00:44:38.120 --> 00:44:39.880
I look at other people's trials,

1061
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.640
and I'm like, we're a bunch of babies over here whining.

1062
00:44:42.640 --> 00:44:43.240
We are.

1063
00:44:43.240 --> 00:44:47.840
But then, on the other hand, your trials are your trials,

1064
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.160
and what the Lord is giving you,

1065
00:44:49.160 --> 00:44:52.080
and they were very real, and they were real to us.

1066
00:44:52.080 --> 00:44:54.880
And so, yeah, I mean, I think our marriage was tested

1067
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.160
in between there, and we joke about,

1068
00:45:00.240 --> 00:45:01.840
I've said this before, so it's not a surprise,

1069
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:06.360
but earlier, when you said something in reference to,

1070
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:09.480
oh, in Daniel, I think, like, take them or take me.

1071
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.120
And so, we've been through times in our marriage

1072
00:45:11.120 --> 00:45:13.120
where I've said, okay, divorce is not an option

1073
00:45:13.120 --> 00:45:16.560
because there's no grounds for divorce,

1074
00:45:16.560 --> 00:45:19.760
but you can take camera, one of us has gotta go.

1075
00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:21.480
So, I don't care, but Sam, I don't care with me,

1076
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:24.280
you gotta take one of us to get us out of this situation.

1077
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.920
You know, we joke about it now, wasn't funny, way back then.

1078
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:29.160
But, I feel like-

1079
00:45:29.160 --> 00:45:30.000
I feel like-

1080
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:30.840
I feel like-

1081
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:33.080
For me, during this time, the marriage and the family life

1082
00:45:33.080 --> 00:45:38.080
with my kids, no big sin, all that was doing really good.

1083
00:45:38.080 --> 00:45:39.720
My relationship with the Lord was fine.

1084
00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.840
It was the most people.

1085
00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:44.120
I didn't wanna, me and God are good.

1086
00:45:44.120 --> 00:45:44.960
Yeah.

1087
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:49.040
You know what, I don't know if this speaks into the book

1088
00:45:49.040 --> 00:45:52.040
or speaks out from your book, but for me,

1089
00:45:52.040 --> 00:45:54.760
it's taken me forever, and I mean forever.

1090
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:58.840
It's taken me, at least, and I, I don't know.

1091
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:00.080
It's gotta be 30 years.

1092
00:46:00.080 --> 00:46:04.680
It's just recently, I have been able to discover this.

1093
00:46:05.680 --> 00:46:10.200
So, over the years, I would find myself

1094
00:46:12.520 --> 00:46:16.360
becoming less enthusiastic about the message.

1095
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:18.240
Why?

1096
00:46:18.240 --> 00:46:19.840
I know now, why?

1097
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:23.320
Well, that was a very, very hard week.

1098
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:27.720
There were, there were the really urgent things

1099
00:46:27.720 --> 00:46:30.960
that pushed out the important things of my life.

1100
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:34.160
So this person died, or my, or our kid had this going on,

1101
00:46:34.160 --> 00:46:36.320
or a grand kid, this or that or the other.

1102
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:41.320
And so, you know, your secretary says, okay,

1103
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:46.480
well, you've only got eight hours, this week, sorry,

1104
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:47.840
you only got eight hours for Sunday,

1105
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:49.480
because this guy died, and they're demanding

1106
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:51.360
that you do their funeral unsat, I don't know about you,

1107
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.320
but Friday and Saturday, I'm a ghost.

1108
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:55.320
Nobody sees me, I'm locked down.

1109
00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:56.680
Well, this is a particular thing.

1110
00:46:56.680 --> 00:46:58.800
You have to do this, and then you have to do that.

1111
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.760
And so, for me, that puts, that's put,

1112
00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:03.440
just puts pressure on me.

1113
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:06.440
Because, I mean, I don't mean to be crude about this,

1114
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:09.320
but this is how I review this.

1115
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:13.360
Instead of me marinating in the word of God with God,

1116
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.280
because the urgent things of ministry,

1117
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:21.160
you know, they choke out the important thing.

1118
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.920
It's me walking into a room now, say, hey God,

1119
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:28.040
sorry, this calendar has been nuts this week,

1120
00:47:28.040 --> 00:47:29.160
surely you know.

1121
00:47:29.160 --> 00:47:32.400
So, normally what takes 25 hours,

1122
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.680
can you give it to me in 10 or in eight?

1123
00:47:35.680 --> 00:47:38.120
And it's kind of like, it's kind of like,

1124
00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:42.200
you showing up to Morgan or me showing up to Lisa,

1125
00:47:42.200 --> 00:47:45.080
and saying, hey, I know it's really been a really busy week,

1126
00:47:45.080 --> 00:47:47.680
but like, you know, can we get together physically right now

1127
00:47:47.680 --> 00:47:50.120
for the next five minutes, because I gotta go.

1128
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:53.840
How horrible is that?

1129
00:47:54.640 --> 00:47:57.760
When that happens, it doesn't happen now.

1130
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:02.760
But when that happened, I found myself pushing the sermon

1131
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:05.480
up the mountain.

1132
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.760
I found myself not being excited about what I had.

1133
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:12.200
I found myself and I coined this phrase to our staff.

1134
00:48:12.200 --> 00:48:15.080
I said, please pray for me because I feel like

1135
00:48:15.080 --> 00:48:18.520
my study time has been like licking a rock.

1136
00:48:18.520 --> 00:48:21.240
Think of the refreshment you get out of licking a rock.

1137
00:48:21.240 --> 00:48:23.080
I mean, it sucks everything out of your mouth.

1138
00:48:23.080 --> 00:48:28.080
That said, the next thing I noticed was uncharacteristically,

1139
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:35.320
I was becoming irritable with people, short.

1140
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.320
They didn't know it at first.

1141
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:40.520
I'm hiding it, and I'm thinking thoughts like this.

1142
00:48:40.520 --> 00:48:43.600
Hey, Pastor Chek, you know, I have to talk to you.

1143
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:47.800
Can you please pray my aunts?

1144
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:50.080
She's had her poodle for 20 years.

1145
00:48:50.080 --> 00:48:51.400
The poodle died.

1146
00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:54.960
She lives in New York and I just, and I'm thinking,

1147
00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:57.800
are you serious right now?

1148
00:48:57.800 --> 00:48:58.800
Are you serious?

1149
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.440
You just stopped me to pray for your aunts' poodle in New York.

1150
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:04.120
Don't you understand that that person

1151
00:49:04.120 --> 00:49:05.600
next used dying of cancer?

1152
00:49:05.600 --> 00:49:06.440
And here I am.

1153
00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:07.840
This is all going on in my head.

1154
00:49:08.720 --> 00:49:11.040
And why are smiling saying, sure, I'll pray for you.

1155
00:49:11.040 --> 00:49:12.280
Yes, of course.

1156
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:14.600
Oh, I love poodles too.

1157
00:49:14.600 --> 00:49:17.320
And the Lord just nailed me.

1158
00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:18.320
And you any nailed me?

1159
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:19.920
I was shocked.

1160
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:23.480
He didn't say, you need to really get your heart softened up.

1161
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:24.960
Boy, you better repent.

1162
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:28.480
You and he said, he said, you're not sabithing.

1163
00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:31.480
You're not sabithing with me.

1164
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:34.520
And man, we've learned.

1165
00:49:34.520 --> 00:49:38.160
And I want to say I do this perfectly, I don't.

1166
00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:39.480
But everyone's wired different.

1167
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:41.240
Every pastor or Christian worker

1168
00:49:41.240 --> 00:49:43.160
that's listening to this right now,

1169
00:49:43.160 --> 00:49:45.600
they need to find their own so to speak groove.

1170
00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:50.600
But for me, I'm programmed to go 150%

1171
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:57.080
and I can do that for about five weeks.

1172
00:49:57.080 --> 00:50:00.520
And then the sixth week, I have got to have some sort of

1173
00:50:00.520 --> 00:50:05.520
built in the mountains or for us the beach.

1174
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:07.840
I've got to unplug.

1175
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:12.080
I've got to not be near a book and not be near my device.

1176
00:50:12.080 --> 00:50:15.560
I've got to get to that point where it's almost like

1177
00:50:15.560 --> 00:50:19.040
you're drooling, like you're catatonic almost.

1178
00:50:19.040 --> 00:50:20.440
And that has been working for me,

1179
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:24.120
because even Jesus said to the disciples,

1180
00:50:24.120 --> 00:50:25.160
come away with me.

1181
00:50:26.240 --> 00:50:29.400
And that has been something where now when I realize

1182
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:32.160
I'm feeling shortness with his flock,

1183
00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:35.320
with his precious people, it's him tapping me on the shoulder

1184
00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:37.000
saying, you need to come away with it.

1185
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:38.480
It's time.

1186
00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:40.920
Because from that relationship, everything else flows.

1187
00:50:41.240 --> 00:50:42.400
You guys are so similar.

1188
00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:47.400
He just goes 110 miles and over 50, 150.

1189
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:49.800
And then, yeah, yeah.

1190
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:52.840
But I think the key for takeaway for a lot of the pastors

1191
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:56.600
will be get that relationship with the Lord back on track.

1192
00:50:56.600 --> 00:50:58.880
Get that joy back, repent if warranted.

1193
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:02.440
I don't care if you pastor 2200, 2000.

1194
00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:05.120
Let don't gauge it off that.

1195
00:51:05.120 --> 00:51:07.080
Gage it off faithfulness.

1196
00:51:07.080 --> 00:51:09.720
Your pursuit of him and just be thankful.

1197
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:10.920
We've got to get that thankful,

1198
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:13.280
but bless the Lord on my soul.

1199
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:17.320
Bless his holy name, and I got disgruntled of him.

1200
00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:18.320
Yes, very disgruntled.

1201
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:20.600
Sorry, it reminds me what you said in the beginning,

1202
00:51:20.600 --> 00:51:22.600
when you said talking about strengthening yourself

1203
00:51:22.600 --> 00:51:23.600
in the Lord.

1204
00:51:23.600 --> 00:51:25.600
I mean, you've used that in several serenity

1205
00:51:25.600 --> 00:51:29.320
over the years of, you can't always rely on someone else.

1206
00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.320
Like sometimes you just got to get before the Lord

1207
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:34.960
and pull up your pants and strengthen yourself in the Lord

1208
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:37.760
and Sabbath and resting your ways to do that.

1209
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:38.520
That's right.

1210
00:51:38.520 --> 00:51:42.360
So Morgan, with the time that we have remaining,

1211
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:46.600
what would you say to the pastor's wife?

1212
00:51:46.600 --> 00:51:49.680
And for those who are in Christian ministry, the wives,

1213
00:51:49.680 --> 00:51:51.160
what do they need to hear?

1214
00:51:51.160 --> 00:51:52.600
Yeah, because it's not just pastor.

1215
00:51:52.600 --> 00:51:54.640
I feel like we've talked about this book

1216
00:51:54.640 --> 00:51:59.640
can really apply to ministry on any level, or even moms.

1217
00:51:59.640 --> 00:52:02.240
I mean, how many times do we just want to throw in the towel

1218
00:52:02.240 --> 00:52:06.160
and go curl up and fetal position and rock and escape?

1219
00:52:06.240 --> 00:52:09.280
But, you know, like I said earlier,

1220
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:12.320
I mean, it sounds so cliche, but it's so true.

1221
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:16.000
My best advice is like he said, hang on.

1222
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:17.880
Just hang, even if you're barely hanging on,

1223
00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:19.960
you're pleading, Lord, I can barely hang on.

1224
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.120
I need you to hang on to me.

1225
00:52:22.120 --> 00:52:25.680
And he's so faithful, I know it because I've lived it.

1226
00:52:25.680 --> 00:52:28.480
You get to a point after walking with him for so long

1227
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.520
that you see his track record over and over.

1228
00:52:30.520 --> 00:52:32.080
He's brought me through this trial.

1229
00:52:32.080 --> 00:52:33.400
Oh, he never felt me yet.

1230
00:52:33.400 --> 00:52:34.520
Oh, he's not going to start now

1231
00:52:34.520 --> 00:52:37.640
and you just walk it out with him and you see his goodness.

1232
00:52:38.600 --> 00:52:41.080
But then also, you know, maybe finding a friend

1233
00:52:41.080 --> 00:52:42.600
outside of the church.

1234
00:52:42.600 --> 00:52:46.720
I've found as a pastor's life, it feels very lonely.

1235
00:52:46.720 --> 00:52:48.960
Not in the sense of, I mean, maybe for some,

1236
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.320
for some in the sense of like their husband's always busy.

1237
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:54.400
For me, that's not what I talk, what I mean when I talk about.

1238
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:57.400
I mean, it's more of who do you talk to?

1239
00:52:57.400 --> 00:52:58.240
They're true.

1240
00:52:58.240 --> 00:52:59.080
You know, who do I talk to?

1241
00:52:59.080 --> 00:52:59.920
Who are married?

1242
00:52:59.920 --> 00:53:02.640
They need marriage counseling and I feel like we need marriage.

1243
00:53:02.640 --> 00:53:04.240
You know, like those types of things,

1244
00:53:04.240 --> 00:53:05.640
like that.

1245
00:53:05.640 --> 00:53:07.480
I can't get it.

1246
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:08.320
We do that.

1247
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:09.800
Yeah.

1248
00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:13.720
But you know, who do we get to talk to?

1249
00:53:13.720 --> 00:53:15.480
Because you can't talk to people

1250
00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:17.040
because your husband's their pastor.

1251
00:53:17.040 --> 00:53:18.520
It's just a weird dynamic.

1252
00:53:18.520 --> 00:53:22.480
So maybe finding someone outside of your congregation.

1253
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:25.120
Another pastor's wife maybe that you can relate to

1254
00:53:25.120 --> 00:53:29.720
and just, you know, being able to have dialogue

1255
00:53:29.720 --> 00:53:32.320
and kind of talk through things that are going to be common

1256
00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:34.560
only to pastors' wives or ministry wives, you know,

1257
00:53:34.560 --> 00:53:39.200
maybe worship leaders and things that not everyone's going

1258
00:53:39.200 --> 00:53:42.520
to understand and you have to get on the same playing field

1259
00:53:42.520 --> 00:53:43.520
in a sense.

1260
00:53:43.520 --> 00:53:49.400
I love what you're saying because this almost sounds,

1261
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:51.960
I don't know, elite.

1262
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:55.160
And I don't mean it to be.

1263
00:53:55.160 --> 00:54:00.760
But a husband and a wife in the leadership

1264
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:02.880
of, say, Apple computer.

1265
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:06.960
I'm just picking that, or Google.

1266
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:08.680
They have their challenges, obviously.

1267
00:54:12.080 --> 00:54:14.560
But it's completely different in ministry.

1268
00:54:14.560 --> 00:54:16.240
And for those who are thinking, right?

1269
00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:18.160
How many times have you seen this?

1270
00:54:18.160 --> 00:54:21.600
For those who are really good in corporate stuff

1271
00:54:21.600 --> 00:54:23.720
and they come to pastor Shane and they say,

1272
00:54:23.720 --> 00:54:25.320
you ought to hire me because I'm really good.

1273
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:28.920
I can be on staff because, you know, I'm this in that

1274
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:33.920
at Google or Cisco doesn't translate.

1275
00:54:34.240 --> 00:54:37.880
They can be the star employee, right?

1276
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:42.320
At SpaceX and you think, wow, this person's skill sets

1277
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:44.400
their ability to speak is amazing.

1278
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:47.760
Well, you know, we'll make them an assistant pastor.

1279
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:49.840
Three months later, they fall completely on their face

1280
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:52.640
and they're the ones who tell you the truth of it.

1281
00:54:52.640 --> 00:54:53.840
It is this.

1282
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:56.400
Man, I've addressed some of the biggest corporate wheels

1283
00:54:56.480 --> 00:55:00.760
in Silicon Valley and I had no idea

1284
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:04.680
that being in a church is impossibly more difficult.

1285
00:55:04.680 --> 00:55:07.480
What's like, I'll never understand what it is to be a firewife.

1286
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:10.480
Like the, you know, the wives who I hear who are wives

1287
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:12.960
of firemen and their husbands are gone and all that.

1288
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.600
I'll never fully understand that in a way that only they can

1289
00:55:16.600 --> 00:55:18.160
because they're living it.

1290
00:55:18.160 --> 00:55:20.080
Other people aren't going to fully understand

1291
00:55:20.080 --> 00:55:23.920
where we're coming from because we're the ones living.

1292
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:25.680
And it's not a job, it's a calling.

1293
00:55:25.680 --> 00:55:30.680
And because it's a calling, Cisco's a job vocation.

1294
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:36.600
Ministry calling is a divine appointment from heaven above.

1295
00:55:36.600 --> 00:55:39.320
It doesn't work without his power.

1296
00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:41.200
The world says, we need to build you up

1297
00:55:41.200 --> 00:55:42.800
so you can do more for us.

1298
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:44.800
Jesus says, I need to break you down

1299
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:46.800
so I can do more through you.

1300
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.280
It's a completely opposite kingdom.

1301
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:53.780
And the amazing thing is, is that,

1302
00:55:54.620 --> 00:55:58.460
as influential as Apple might be in the world,

1303
00:55:59.820 --> 00:56:03.700
Apple's not fighting the principalities and powers

1304
00:56:03.700 --> 00:56:05.020
of the Satanic world.

1305
00:56:05.020 --> 00:56:06.660
We do it every day.

1306
00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:09.620
And Apple's, you know, I'm not taking any thing away

1307
00:56:09.620 --> 00:56:12.260
from secular business, but there's a high probability

1308
00:56:12.260 --> 00:56:16.260
that your kids are not under or in the sights of Satan.

1309
00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:20.820
Every pastor's kids are targeted by the dark world.

1310
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:23.260
I remember 25 years ago when I came back to Laurie,

1311
00:56:23.260 --> 00:56:25.020
I read about, you know, reading Spurgeon,

1312
00:56:25.020 --> 00:56:26.060
you know, lectures to my students.

1313
00:56:26.060 --> 00:56:27.820
So I, remember one of the lines he said,

1314
00:56:27.820 --> 00:56:32.820
he said, if you can do anything else, do it.

1315
00:56:33.100 --> 00:56:34.460
I'm like, oh, it must have been kind of hard back

1316
00:56:34.460 --> 00:56:35.700
in the 1800s.

1317
00:56:35.700 --> 00:56:38.300
You know, it must have been hard back then.

1318
00:56:38.300 --> 00:56:40.820
And then boy, do you live, you know exactly,

1319
00:56:40.820 --> 00:56:41.820
I tell my kids all the time,

1320
00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:43.820
if you do anything else, do it.

1321
00:56:43.820 --> 00:56:46.300
Don't even get in the ministry unless God calls.

1322
00:56:46.300 --> 00:56:47.140
He's calling the kids.

1323
00:56:47.140 --> 00:56:47.980
That's the only anchor.

1324
00:56:47.980 --> 00:56:49.140
That's it, yeah.

1325
00:56:49.140 --> 00:56:51.180
A couple of other things that come to mind

1326
00:56:51.180 --> 00:56:53.180
is when you guys are talking about the criticism

1327
00:56:53.180 --> 00:56:56.140
and different things, I'd really encourage the pastor's wife

1328
00:56:56.140 --> 00:56:59.740
to not allow her heart to become bitter and critical.

1329
00:56:59.740 --> 00:57:03.580
Because sometimes we hear so much against you guys,

1330
00:57:03.580 --> 00:57:07.380
you know, that I have tended to have to repent really

1331
00:57:07.380 --> 00:57:11.060
and take my thoughts captive on my thinking towards people.

1332
00:57:11.060 --> 00:57:14.780
And just to say, just to stay soft and tender.

1333
00:57:16.140 --> 00:57:17.740
And you know, sometimes, I mean, there's been times

1334
00:57:17.740 --> 00:57:20.540
I said in there too, where I'm like, okay,

1335
00:57:20.540 --> 00:57:21.500
so let me get this straight.

1336
00:57:21.500 --> 00:57:24.460
You want my husband on call 24 hours a day,

1337
00:57:24.460 --> 00:57:27.060
missing family function, this sat in the other,

1338
00:57:27.060 --> 00:57:31.140
and then you're gonna go pop off on Facebook

1339
00:57:31.140 --> 00:57:32.500
and on a comment like, you know,

1340
00:57:32.500 --> 00:57:36.020
so I've really had to, oh, you know what, Lauren?

1341
00:57:36.020 --> 00:57:38.980
I love these, and we have an amazing congregation.

1342
00:57:38.980 --> 00:57:41.020
I mean, you probably feel the same.

1343
00:57:41.020 --> 00:57:43.020
Like ours is the best congregation.

1344
00:57:43.020 --> 00:57:45.220
And you think yours is, you know, but we really do.

1345
00:57:45.220 --> 00:57:49.500
But yeah, just areas that we have to be conscious of,

1346
00:57:49.500 --> 00:57:52.220
I think as we go through and that mama bear

1347
00:57:52.220 --> 00:57:55.460
can kind of come out and like, okay, no, let's stay soft,

1348
00:57:55.460 --> 00:57:57.900
let's stay humble and thankful

1349
00:57:57.900 --> 00:58:00.980
and trying to see people for where they're at, you know,

1350
00:58:00.980 --> 00:58:04.020
everyone who's criticizing has issues going on.

1351
00:58:04.020 --> 00:58:07.780
It really wasn't the people of our church, it was me.

1352
00:58:07.780 --> 00:58:09.860
I mean, like, we have a great people, it wasn't, yeah.

1353
00:58:09.860 --> 00:58:11.620
I can't really, you're the worst.

1354
00:58:11.620 --> 00:58:13.660
But I mean, generally, yeah.

1355
00:58:13.820 --> 00:58:17.620
And then, also the family, just protecting the family,

1356
00:58:17.620 --> 00:58:20.100
like you'll never go wrong, you know, your family's

1357
00:58:20.100 --> 00:58:24.300
your first ministry and making sure that your family

1358
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:29.060
being the last thing I ever want is for one of our five kids

1359
00:58:29.060 --> 00:58:32.220
to walk away because they didn't want ministry

1360
00:58:32.220 --> 00:58:33.980
because of what they saw in us.

1361
00:58:33.980 --> 00:58:36.180
Or they didn't want God because of what they saw in us.

1362
00:58:36.180 --> 00:58:41.180
So trying to find that balance of keeping that first

1363
00:58:41.180 --> 00:58:43.220
but also doing ministry well.

1364
00:58:43.300 --> 00:58:47.220
That brought me back because the example I'm leaving,

1365
00:58:47.220 --> 00:58:48.820
oh, that just wants to quit.

1366
00:58:48.820 --> 00:58:51.420
This is how you, when God, when ministry gets hard,

1367
00:58:51.420 --> 00:58:52.900
this is how you press in.

1368
00:58:52.900 --> 00:58:54.900
So what a great lesson, wasn't it?

1369
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:57.500
I've been through this, I've been through hell and back

1370
00:58:57.500 --> 00:59:00.500
emotionally and other, but this is how you press in

1371
00:59:00.500 --> 00:59:02.940
and get anchor to God and watch this spirit.

1372
00:59:02.940 --> 00:59:05.100
You can, now Jeremiah, his words in my heart,

1373
00:59:05.100 --> 00:59:08.060
like a burning fire out of your body will flow rivers

1374
00:59:08.060 --> 00:59:09.060
of living water.

1375
00:59:09.060 --> 00:59:11.540
Many people don't know what that is, but what you do,

1376
00:59:11.540 --> 00:59:14.500
what you drink and drink deeply of that well of Christ

1377
00:59:14.500 --> 00:59:15.620
and have been broken by him.

1378
00:59:15.620 --> 00:59:18.580
It's just, it's just this incredible relationship.

1379
00:59:18.580 --> 00:59:21.140
And I've had it before, but I lost it for a season

1380
00:59:21.140 --> 00:59:23.500
because, you know, there's no doubt about it

1381
00:59:23.500 --> 00:59:28.500
that the ministry is draining and the challenges

1382
00:59:28.980 --> 00:59:33.980
is to keep as the temple period, keep the fire burning.

1383
00:59:34.300 --> 00:59:37.940
And I love the comfort where the Lord says

1384
00:59:37.940 --> 00:59:42.380
to us, a smoking flax, right?

1385
00:59:42.380 --> 00:59:44.900
He will not extinguish that little ember,

1386
00:59:44.900 --> 00:59:47.580
nor will he break a bruised reed.

1387
00:59:47.580 --> 00:59:49.700
Because that totally announces to us,

1388
00:59:49.700 --> 00:59:51.660
you have to be a nut, nut to get it,

1389
00:59:51.660 --> 00:59:54.340
that our lives are bent reeds.

1390
00:59:54.340 --> 00:59:58.860
And there are times when we are just a smoldering wick

1391
00:59:58.860 --> 01:00:02.700
and he will rekindle and he will strengthen.

1392
01:00:02.700 --> 01:00:06.420
But to do that, it has to be impossible

1393
01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:08.900
and it has to be miraculous.

1394
01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:11.100
And that's where he shows up and...

1395
01:00:11.100 --> 01:00:12.580
And that's the best thing, because we wouldn't want.

1396
01:00:12.580 --> 01:00:14.260
I mean, if we didn't have face to trials,

1397
01:00:14.260 --> 01:00:16.380
if we were doing everything and we could just do it

1398
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:18.340
in our own power, what's the point?

1399
01:00:18.340 --> 01:00:21.380
And there's no need for him, you know, it's...

1400
01:00:21.380 --> 01:00:24.620
And it goes on, I mean, what we've been talking about a little bit,

1401
01:00:24.620 --> 01:00:26.580
but of course the power of prayer

1402
01:00:26.580 --> 01:00:28.100
and that the prayer closet again,

1403
01:00:28.100 --> 01:00:29.660
recapturing that time with the Lord.

1404
01:00:29.660 --> 01:00:30.900
I mean, you talked about it too.

1405
01:00:30.900 --> 01:00:33.980
That's the key, the power closet,

1406
01:00:33.980 --> 01:00:35.500
the prayer closet is the power closet.

1407
01:00:35.540 --> 01:00:37.060
And that's where you get that anointing back

1408
01:00:37.060 --> 01:00:39.220
and that unchimp back and that relationship back.

1409
01:00:39.220 --> 01:00:42.860
And so I think God used it to push me down even lower

1410
01:00:42.860 --> 01:00:45.340
into that time of seeking him.

1411
01:00:45.340 --> 01:00:46.460
Yeah, this is amazing.

1412
01:00:46.460 --> 01:00:48.420
You just said, I know we have to wrap this up,

1413
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:49.660
but we can go on forever.

1414
01:00:52.660 --> 01:00:54.940
It's interesting because people will say,

1415
01:00:54.940 --> 01:00:57.020
oh, God, I need to be better at prayer.

1416
01:00:57.020 --> 01:00:58.100
I need to pray more.

1417
01:00:58.100 --> 01:01:00.100
I need to really develop my prayer life

1418
01:01:00.100 --> 01:01:01.940
and God says, oh, great.

1419
01:01:01.940 --> 01:01:02.780
You're ready.

1420
01:01:02.780 --> 01:01:04.500
Here's how it happens.

1421
01:01:04.500 --> 01:01:08.060
I'm going to send you a trial and then when it comes,

1422
01:01:08.060 --> 01:01:09.860
you go, well, wait a minute.

1423
01:01:09.860 --> 01:01:11.620
Now that's exactly what you're asking for

1424
01:01:11.620 --> 01:01:14.460
because this is how it comes about.

1425
01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:18.140
And so it's amazing.

1426
01:01:18.140 --> 01:01:20.900
So, well, you know, I do want to let people know

1427
01:01:20.900 --> 01:01:23.660
we actually have it available as a free download.

1428
01:01:23.660 --> 01:01:25.100
I mean, of course, it's on Amazon,

1429
01:01:25.100 --> 01:01:26.620
but it's a free download.

1430
01:01:26.620 --> 01:01:27.460
How does that happen?

1431
01:01:27.460 --> 01:01:28.300
How does that happen?

1432
01:01:28.300 --> 01:01:31.020
At our church website, WestsideChristianPhiloship.org,

1433
01:01:31.020 --> 01:01:33.580
free eBooks, all my books are free books.

1434
01:01:33.580 --> 01:01:35.820
So they can click it, read it right now for free.

1435
01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:37.860
We want to make sure we offer that to all the pastors.

1436
01:01:37.860 --> 01:01:38.980
That's amazing.

1437
01:01:38.980 --> 01:01:39.820
That is awesome.

1438
01:01:39.820 --> 01:01:40.660
That's the best spot.

1439
01:01:40.660 --> 01:01:42.660
So WestsideChristian Fellowship, free downloads.

1440
01:01:42.660 --> 01:01:43.500
Yep.

1441
01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:45.340
Wow, that's amazing.

1442
01:01:45.340 --> 01:01:47.940
No, please everybody, get your hands on this book,

1443
01:01:47.940 --> 01:01:49.940
especially now that the price is right.

1444
01:01:49.940 --> 01:01:50.940
Zero.

1445
01:01:50.940 --> 01:01:54.780
And it just doesn't have to be limited to ministry

1446
01:01:54.780 --> 01:01:58.460
because it's really speaking to those times in our lives

1447
01:01:58.460 --> 01:01:59.860
when we just feel like giving up.

1448
01:01:59.860 --> 01:02:01.500
Maybe it's a marriage and people are saying,

1449
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:03.380
I'm done with this marriage.

1450
01:02:03.380 --> 01:02:06.780
And so listen, the good thing about being a believer

1451
01:02:06.780 --> 01:02:08.380
is that we do not have the permission

1452
01:02:08.380 --> 01:02:10.700
to make decisions for ourselves, right?

1453
01:02:10.700 --> 01:02:11.700
We have to consult him.

1454
01:02:11.700 --> 01:02:14.100
We have to follow his lead.

1455
01:02:14.100 --> 01:02:17.300
And so, man, first of all, I love our friendship, Shane.

1456
01:02:17.300 --> 01:02:18.140
Yes, thank you.

1457
01:02:18.140 --> 01:02:19.100
And you mean everything to me?

1458
01:02:19.100 --> 01:02:21.380
You're a brother that I never have to look back

1459
01:02:21.380 --> 01:02:23.540
over my shoulder to see how he might be doing.

1460
01:02:23.540 --> 01:02:24.380
That's true.

1461
01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:27.420
You are just plotting along.

1462
01:02:27.420 --> 01:02:32.340
Like, Warren Wresby's book, In Praise of Plotters,

1463
01:02:32.340 --> 01:02:34.660
over all these decades, I've never had to worry

1464
01:02:34.660 --> 01:02:36.540
about Shane Eidelman going backwards

1465
01:02:36.540 --> 01:02:38.260
or saying something that is off.

1466
01:02:38.260 --> 01:02:42.460
You are a man steadfast and you honor the Lord Jesus.

1467
01:02:42.460 --> 01:02:45.620
You have not denied his name and it's awesome.

1468
01:02:45.620 --> 01:02:48.980
And Morgan, thank you because I know we know

1469
01:02:48.980 --> 01:02:51.620
that without our wives, we would have given up

1470
01:02:51.620 --> 01:02:54.020
a long time ago or even worse.

1471
01:02:54.020 --> 01:02:55.780
And so you guys are dear to us.

1472
01:02:55.780 --> 01:02:58.100
I thank you for that, but I want to remind people too,

1473
01:02:58.100 --> 01:02:59.900
you have to hold to the foundation

1474
01:02:59.900 --> 01:03:02.940
that I would, Shane Eidelman would fell next week

1475
01:03:02.940 --> 01:03:03.740
if it were up to me.

1476
01:03:03.740 --> 01:03:04.580
So true.

1477
01:03:04.580 --> 01:03:06.460
It's that anchor of that relation with Christ,

1478
01:03:06.460 --> 01:03:08.140
pursuing him regardless.

1479
01:03:08.140 --> 01:03:09.380
Though he slain me while I trust him,

1480
01:03:09.380 --> 01:03:11.140
I think it's my life verse one of them

1481
01:03:11.140 --> 01:03:13.300
because Lord, where am I going to go?

1482
01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:14.140
Yeah.

1483
01:03:14.140 --> 01:03:14.980
I love you.

1484
01:03:14.980 --> 01:03:15.820
To you.

1485
01:03:15.820 --> 01:03:16.340
Yeah.

1486
01:03:16.340 --> 01:03:17.620
Get that call, stage four.

1487
01:03:17.620 --> 01:03:18.460
That's right.

1488
01:03:18.460 --> 01:03:20.020
You know, cancer is still has to love you, you know?

1489
01:03:20.020 --> 01:03:20.540
That's right.

1490
01:03:20.540 --> 01:03:21.580
Thank you, we appreciate your mystery.

1491
01:03:21.580 --> 01:03:24.380
Your actually, your ministry has helped us stay

1492
01:03:24.380 --> 01:03:26.180
the course as well, so it works both ways.

1493
01:03:26.180 --> 01:03:27.780
It's the body of Christ coming together.

1494
01:03:27.780 --> 01:03:28.300
Amen.

1495
01:03:28.300 --> 01:03:29.300
Awesome.

1496
01:03:29.300 --> 01:03:30.140
Thank you.

1497
01:03:30.140 --> 01:03:31.300
Thank you.