WEBVTT

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And so I think it's like, do I want to be the artist

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or do I want to be the entrepreneur?

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Both of them are fine.

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It depends which one you feel like you're more naturally

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inclined to or have a higher likelihood of success doing.

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I feel like I've been decent enough

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to not make one of them the constraint.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers,

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how to make more customers, how to keep them longer

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and the many failures and lessons we have learned along the way.

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I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

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A previous guest on this podcast called Mo Goudat said,

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we're unhappy on our expectations of how we think life is supposed to be going

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are unmet and in that there's something very sort of linked

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what you just said there, which is we have this external

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expectation set by Instagram or whatever, by people like us.

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Who are in a position of financial freedom

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and have built an audience who admire

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those people for what they've achieved?

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And if someone wants to be admired, they think,

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well, I need to be like Alex, right?

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And that I could be working in a shop actually,

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subjectively, like subjectively having a great time in the shop

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but I look up at Alex and go, my life sucks.

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And so in that, I'm like, it's very difficult

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because of the pressure that I was just thinking

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when you said it then I was thinking,

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this whole idea of passion and purpose

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is probably like 60 years old.

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Yeah, it's all brand new.

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And it probably originated when we were connected,

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like radio, TV, all of this advertising

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which made us change our expectations of our own lives

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when living in the village and helping out at the bakery

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was probably delivered the same amount of happiness,

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co-happiness, then being on the private jet

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and whatever else does now.

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I think most people are just as happy

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and just like you're 50% happy, 50% sad for most of your life.

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If you're in an extreme circumstance, then change your life.

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If you're not, like conditions, like people get handicapped,

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they break their legs, they can never move again

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and they have a dip in their subjective well-being

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and they go back to the same baseline.

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And so the baseline is independent of conditions.

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And so the world wants to tell us

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that we need to change our circumstances

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and then we will be whatever,

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but like every modern religion,

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every Buddhist monk will tell you

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that all of that's from the inside, not the outside.

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But these are words and words that mean you.

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Yeah, Kenzo.

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Don't follow.

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Yeah.

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Because I'm sure that you've experienced

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the attainment of a goal and then I just need three times more.

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Yeah.

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I'm referencing a study there where they ask people

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how much money they would need to be happy.

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And all the way up the income well spectrum,

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people said three times more than they have now.

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So people with 10K, said 30, people with three million

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said, you know, six, nine million.

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No, I couldn't do math.

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Three times three.

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Yeah.

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And you, I imagine you still experienced that now, right?

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Yeah.

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Different reasons.

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But yeah, for sure.

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When is enough enough?

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I don't think it's enough thing.

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I think it's more like who I want to be.

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Who do you want to be?

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I want to be the person capable of

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of doing that, doing X.

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Like we'll get to a billion and then after a billion,

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I'll make it 10.

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I already know that.

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You don't even be like,

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I love playing the game.

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What is the game?

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Game of business.

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To what end?

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Or just for the play.

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To play.

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Yeah.

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I'm sure you know more about this than I do.

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But like just game theory.

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Like the finite and infinite games.

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Simon Sinek has a great piece on it.

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But yeah, with infinite games, you have known in unknown players.

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You have no agreed upon rules.

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And the point of the game is to keep the game going.

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And so a lot of things people will take a finite game

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where you have only known players agreed upon rules

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and a set outcome for winning.

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And they will apply it to an infinite game.

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So people are like, I want to, they play a finite construct to health.

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They're like, I want to win health.

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It's like, you don't win health.

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Like, okay, you're in shape.

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Now what?

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You stay in shape.

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You keep staying in shape.

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I want to win at marriage.

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You don't win at marriage.

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You keep the marriage going.

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That's playing the game of marriage.

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If you want to win at business.

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You keep playing the game of business.

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And so we want to take these finite constructs and put them on infinite games.

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And I think that's where people get it.

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Get in trouble.

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Because they're like, I have to keep moving the goalposts.

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But if the goalpost is to play, then you win by playing.

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And so for that rate, like, sure, we said goals for the company.

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But like, I'm 1,000% supermodivate.

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And at the same time, if we never hit it,

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I'm just going to be happy that I was able to play.

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I also know that in three generations, everyone will forget who I am.

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I saw your post about the queen.

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Yeah.

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No, no, no, it wasn't for me if I'm been honest.

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But it's an interesting con.

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What did the post say?

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Well, she amassed more wealth than 99.99% of the world.

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She ruled for 70 years.

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Was, you know, a female monarch, which is insane, especially 70 years.

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It's just like, it's had amazing family, all this amazing, whatever.

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I don't know the tablets you do.

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And when I posted it, it had been, I think, five or six months since she had died.

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Exactly.

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And it was like, you probably haven't thought about her today, except for this post.

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She probably accomplished more in her life than we probably will.

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So if you were afraid of other people thinking about you,

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just remember the six months after you died, they're not going to be.

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And so it's like, we have all these spheres about other people,

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but like most of them wouldn't even choke to your funeral,

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because they're going to be busy.

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And so like, I think about death all the time.

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And that's what I think for me has given me a lot of freedom to take big shots.

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Because like, at the end of the day, I think that it's not going to matter.

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No one's going to remember people in Thailand don't know who I am today.

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Let alone in five, 10 years, 100 years.

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It's a trap that the mind can quite easily fall into.

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They're thinking you are the center of the universe.

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And with that comes an immense amount of weight and pressure and anxiety.

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Totally.

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I have a trick.

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I've never talked about this before.

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But whenever I feel myself slipping into the trap of kind of overstating my importance,

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what I mean by that is like, thinking my problems are big problems.

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I go on YouTube and I type in.

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There's this one video that shows a camera on earth that just zoom out and it keeps going.

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And eventually, earth becomes this tiny speck, then earth becomes this tiny speck,

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which is the galaxy, then the galaxy becomes this tiny speck.

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And a bunch of galaxies, then you can't see any of it anymore.

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And then also this idea that like 100 years ago,

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I didn't feel anything.

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Didn't think anything.

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Nobody knew me.

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Hundreds from now.

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Exactly what you said.

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Absolutely.

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I mean, five minutes after I die, I think.

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And that feels really liberating.

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It relieves of stress from my body.

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Which is an interesting thing because a lot of people don't like thinking about the death.

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A lot of people think you are.

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Yeah.

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I know from doing this podcast that a lot of people won't click if we post something about death.

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They won't because they don't even want to confront the concept of it.

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People are afraid of it just because they don't understand it.

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Kind of like the hate thing.

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How do you feel about death?

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I'm good with it.

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When you say I'm good with it, what would you mean?

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If I die tomorrow, I'm good with it.

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Like, I want to leave it all on the field.

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I'm going to try as hard as I can.

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And I know that no one will remember me.

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I don't know long enough time rising.

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And I'm good with that.

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Like, I'm cool with it.

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If I told you I'm going to die tomorrow, would you be sad?

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I'd probably hear it with Layla.

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A little, I guess, a little more than I always do.

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But like, I wouldn't be sad.

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I'd be bummed.

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I'd be like, man, there's all this shit I want to do.

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But I don't think I'd be depressed.

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I think I'd be, I mean, my duty to be fair.

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Maybe I'll find out and maybe I'll get hit by a bus tomorrow.

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But no, I think like, I've lived life the way I want to live life.

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And I'm good with it.

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If you were to go today, had you really given it everything?

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Had you lived the life you feel like you were really destined to live?

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Me, absolutely.

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An interesting mind trick around the same topic is,

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so when Betty White dies, right, at 99 or whatever,

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like people were like, she lived a good life.

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But when Kobe dies before his time, right, it's a big deal.

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And I see that as a contrast between expectations and reality.

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And I'm going to tell a story that hopefully people don't take the wrong way.

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But I had a cat, and really liked the cat.

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And it died at two years old.

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Really liked it, young guy, heart thing or something, whatever.

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And I remember being like, really bummed about it.

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And I was like, huh, how can I not think this?

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And so I was like, the only reason I am bummed is because I think that he should have,

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should being the big word that everyone likes to you, he should have lived longer.

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I was like, what if cats only lived six months?

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And I got to happen for two years.

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I was like, I'd probably be pretty stoked about that.

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And all of a sudden, I was significantly less sad about it.

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And I was like, I got to happen for two years.

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And I was like, awesome.

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And so I think for me, for us, whatever, if we were to change our expectation,

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people think they should live until, everyone thinks they're going to do 100,

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which is kind of interesting, because the average life experience needs 74.

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And if you're like 36 year middle aged, if you actually do the math,

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which no one wants to do, being middle aged at 36.

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I know, right?

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But I think if we shift our expectations,

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like expectations is the thing.

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It's the thing, right?

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And so we can, if we expected, if I expected that I was supposed to have lived 20 years

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and I made it to 33, stoked.

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Jesus lived until 33, did a lot more than I have.

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You know what I mean?

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And so I'm good with it.

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If I die tomorrow, only reason I would be upset is if I demanded from the universe that I live longer.

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But like 500 years ago, average life expectancy was like 35.

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You know, it was just not like in dark ages.

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Working hard.

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We talked about repetitions early.

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Working hard is quite a controversial topic in 2023.

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Oh, just weird.

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Do you see what I mean, though?

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Yeah.

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I'm probably not in the circles where it's controversial.

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They're like, gravies controversial, no way.

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It's controversial in the sense that there's like toxic work.

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You know, there's toxic hard work.

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And there's, I think society prescribes a certain amount of work which is good.

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Yeah.

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By their definition of like, I'm going to say some stuff that's going to bother some people.

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I work all the time.

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I have no hobbies besides working out if you consider that a hobby like four times a week.

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That's it.

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I work all the time.

254
00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:03.100
That's all I do.

255
00:11:03.100 --> 00:11:05.100
And I work until I can't work.

256
00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:08.100
Meaning like my output per unit of time starts to drop precipitously.

257
00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:10.100
And then I know that I just need to take a break of some sort.

258
00:11:10.100 --> 00:11:12.100
And then I usually bend some sort of television.

259
00:11:12.100 --> 00:11:14.100
Because that's what for me works.

260
00:11:14.100 --> 00:11:15.100
Some people are like, I garden.

261
00:11:15.100 --> 00:11:16.100
That's not me.

262
00:11:16.100 --> 00:11:17.100
Netflix.

263
00:11:17.100 --> 00:11:18.100
I'm good.

264
00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:19.100
You know what I mean?

265
00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:20.100
Or dark room in a movie theater.

266
00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:21.100
Rockin'.

267
00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:22.100
Come on.

268
00:11:22.100 --> 00:11:23.100
And that's okay.

269
00:11:23.100 --> 00:11:26.100
Like, why do I need to take their expectation of what they want?

270
00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:28.100
Like, they're like, that's not healthy.

271
00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:29.100
I'm like, define healthy.

272
00:11:30.100 --> 00:11:35.100
I do as much as I can of the thing that I want to do with every minute of my day.

273
00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:36.100
Why is that not healthy?

274
00:11:36.100 --> 00:11:39.100
Why do you want me to do something that I would prefer to do less?

275
00:11:39.100 --> 00:11:44.100
Because I do what I do every other minute of the day because that's what I want to do.

276
00:11:44.100 --> 00:11:47.100
Almost like, how dare you cast your expectation of your life onto me?

277
00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:50.100
And to be fair, the same degree?

278
00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:51.100
They can not work at all.

279
00:11:51.100 --> 00:11:52.100
It doesn't affect me.

280
00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:58.100
Like, I'm a big, big advocate for destroying should, the word, in general.

281
00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:04.100
Should is just like the expectation motor of like all of our psyches.

282
00:12:04.100 --> 00:12:05.100
You should go to school.

283
00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:06.100
You should get a degree.

284
00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:07.100
You should do this job.

285
00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:08.100
You should marry her.

286
00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:09.100
You shouldn't stay up so late.

287
00:12:09.100 --> 00:12:10.100
You shouldn't work so hard.

288
00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:12.100
You shouldn't, you shouldn't be more balanced.

289
00:12:12.100 --> 00:12:13.100
You shouldn't be working out so much.

290
00:12:13.100 --> 00:12:14.100
You're not working out.

291
00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:17.100
Like, there's all these shoulds that other people tell us.

292
00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:22.100
And it's like, and you zoom out and then you see that it's a galaxy with a little dot of dust.

293
00:12:22.100 --> 00:12:24.100
It's like, should what?

294
00:12:24.100 --> 00:12:25.100
There is no should.

295
00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:27.100
Do what you want to do.

296
00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:30.100
At least that's how I see the world.

297
00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:32.100
That pressure applies to both ends of the spectrum, doesn't it?

298
00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:36.100
Because people that quote and quote overwork, they get hit, come back into the middle.

299
00:12:36.100 --> 00:12:39.100
And that people that under work, they get hit, work harder.

300
00:12:39.100 --> 00:12:45.100
And then the presumption there within society is that there's this sweet error in the middle where it's optimal.

301
00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:49.100
And like, the question should become then like, what is the measurement?

302
00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:50.100
Like, what are we measuring?

303
00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:56.100
Is it, are we measuring, when we're defining this amount of work as good work or healthy or whatever,

304
00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:01.100
is the real measurement my happiness and my fulfillment in your view?

305
00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:02.100
Is that what you're like?

306
00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:03.100
Is that your measurement?

307
00:13:03.100 --> 00:13:06.100
Or is it just fucking how you feel?

308
00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:08.100
I work because I enjoy working.

309
00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:13.100
And I'm sure that if I stop enjoying working, I won't work as much.

310
00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:19.100
Like just being really, like not being, I'm not being simplistic to be, you know, annoying.

311
00:13:19.100 --> 00:13:21.100
I work because I enjoy working.

312
00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:27.100
And if I, and if for some reason I didn't get reinforced and from work, I'm sure that my amount of work would go down.

313
00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:31.100
Is there a, I think about like human needs?

314
00:13:31.100 --> 00:13:32.100
Yeah.

315
00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:40.100
But are there any human needs that are being sacrificed by always working in your case?

316
00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:41.100
I'm good.

317
00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:46.100
Yeah, I mean, which gets to the point of the measurement, which is like, how do I feel?

318
00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:47.100
I'm good.

319
00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:51.100
Yeah, I, a lot of people really over it and a lot of things.

320
00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:55.100
And like I don't think, well, I do, I do, I do spend a lot of time thinking about death and things like that.

321
00:13:55.100 --> 00:14:00.100
But I usually use those as frames to give myself permission to do the things that I want to do.

322
00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:05.100
And just do them without hearing the judgment that I know that other people would probably cast on my life.

323
00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:07.100
They're like, why don't you have kids?

324
00:14:07.100 --> 00:14:09.100
Like, because I haven't wanted to yet.

325
00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:11.100
And that's okay.

326
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.100
And if I want to later, I will.

327
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:15.100
Okay.

328
00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:17.100
I'll tell you an argument that I got into.

329
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:19.100
So I was at, you go into an argument?

330
00:14:19.100 --> 00:14:20.100
I did.

331
00:14:20.100 --> 00:14:23.100
I got into an argument with my stepmother.

332
00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:27.100
So Layla's fathers, whatever, doesn't matter.

333
00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:28.100
Okay.

334
00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:29.100
It wasn't her.

335
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:30.100
Different person.

336
00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:31.100
It's fine.

337
00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:40.100
Anyways, I was at the kitchen table and she said I would never want your life.

338
00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.100
And I was like, what?

339
00:14:42.100 --> 00:14:44.100
She was like, it's so unbalanced.

340
00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:46.100
I was like, okay.

341
00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:47.100
How?

342
00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:50.100
I was like, do you feel like I'm not in shape physically?

343
00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:55.100
I was like, do you feel like business-wise financially?

344
00:14:55.100 --> 00:14:58.100
I'm not fit.

345
00:14:58.100 --> 00:15:00.100
Do you feel like romantically?

346
00:15:00.100 --> 00:15:04.100
Like my marriage is in some way not good.

347
00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:08.100
And so I, like, would, where do you feel like I'm unbalanced?

348
00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:11.100
Or it's just that I do more than you.

349
00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:14.100
Or I do things differently than you do.

350
00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:16.100
Because at the same degree, I wouldn't want your life.

351
00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:18.100
And that's why I don't have your life.

352
00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:19.100
And that's why you don't have my life.

353
00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:21.100
So it's good that we don't want to know each other's lives,

354
00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:23.100
because that would be tough, wouldn't it?

355
00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:28.100
And so that was the argument that we got into in so many words.

356
00:15:28.100 --> 00:15:35.100
And it just came down to the idea that, like, I think that person was casting judgment on themselves,

357
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:39.100
because maybe on some level, maybe they did want some aspect of the life that we had.

358
00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:42.100
And I hope that doesn't sound like weird, but it's just like, I think we all do this.

359
00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:46.100
We see something, and then we look at our delta, and then we either say,

360
00:15:46.100 --> 00:15:47.100
man, I would like that.

361
00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:50.100
Or we cast stones at it so that we don't feel bad to our ego.

362
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.100
It's like, no, there's something wrong with it.

363
00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:55.100
They're not happy, whatever.

364
00:15:55.100 --> 00:16:00.100
And I just, I would say that if there's one thing that I will try and beat out of me until I die,

365
00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:02.100
is caring what other people think.

366
00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:06.100
And I think everybody cares what other people think, and I think over time, we just care a little bit less.

367
00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:09.100
And so I feel like I'm 30% better than I was 10 years ago.

368
00:16:09.100 --> 00:16:13.100
And maybe in 10 years, I'll be like 30% better than that.

369
00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:17.100
But that 30% has been very meaningful for me, because it's enabled me to do things.

370
00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:22.100
Like I got married in eight days, none of my parents were there, and I'm cool with it,

371
00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:24.100
because that's what I wanted to do.

372
00:16:24.100 --> 00:16:27.100
And I work with my wife every hour every day, and people are like, is that healthy?

373
00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:28.100
I'm like, I don't know.

374
00:16:28.100 --> 00:16:29.100
We like it.

375
00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:30.100
Why do you care?

376
00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:32.100
Like, how does it affect you?

377
00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:34.100
Here's a trap, though.

378
00:16:34.100 --> 00:16:37.100
I can relate in many ways to what you're saying.

379
00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:40.100
And I mean, my team will know that instinctively.

380
00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:44.100
One of the traps we can fall into, one of the risks when we have that perspective,

381
00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:47.100
is that we kind of cast that expectation on others.

382
00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:49.100
People that work with us.

383
00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:54.100
I think entrepreneurs oftentimes, when they have that drive,

384
00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:59.100
which is sometimes driven by a shame or an insecurity that comes from their childhood too often,

385
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:03.100
so often, maybe not too often, but so often, that when they lead people

386
00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:09.100
who don't have that same insecurity, shame, whatever, that predisposition to,

387
00:17:09.100 --> 00:17:16.100
you know, workaholism, whatever you want to call it, they struggle to relate.

388
00:17:16.100 --> 00:17:17.100
You know?

389
00:17:17.100 --> 00:17:18.100
Yeah.

390
00:17:18.100 --> 00:17:19.100
Have you heard that?

391
00:17:19.100 --> 00:17:20.100
Sure.

392
00:17:20.100 --> 00:17:22.100
But I think that's okay.

393
00:17:22.100 --> 00:17:24.100
Have you had to work on that?

394
00:17:24.100 --> 00:17:26.100
Layla's better.

395
00:17:27.100 --> 00:17:28.100
I say that just a little bit.

396
00:17:28.100 --> 00:17:31.100
But realistically, I think we tried to maintain a culture of high performance,

397
00:17:31.100 --> 00:17:34.100
and we're on the screening parts on the front, and we're like,

398
00:17:34.100 --> 00:17:35.100
these are the values we have.

399
00:17:35.100 --> 00:17:37.100
Here are examples of those values that play.

400
00:17:37.100 --> 00:17:40.100
So it's like, if your shift ends at five,

401
00:17:40.100 --> 00:17:46.100
and somebody asks a question that's going to take 30 minutes to answer at 459, what do you do?

402
00:17:46.100 --> 00:17:47.100
It's an interview question.

403
00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:51.100
And we need you to be honest, because if you say you would work,

404
00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:54.100
but you would actually be dissatisfied, you're not going to do either of us justice,

405
00:17:54.100 --> 00:17:56.100
because you'll come in and you'll get fired quickly.

406
00:17:56.100 --> 00:17:58.100
And that'll be hard for you and hard for us.

407
00:17:58.100 --> 00:18:01.100
So like, we want you to win at whatever you do in life.

408
00:18:01.100 --> 00:18:05.100
So Layla is very big on like human first, in terms of how she does everything that we do in the company.

409
00:18:05.100 --> 00:18:07.100
It's like human first and everything else.

410
00:18:07.100 --> 00:18:11.100
You can tell that's why it's like we're in an yang for this kind of thing.

411
00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:14.100
But I think it's really just about expectation setting,

412
00:18:14.100 --> 00:18:17.100
and being very truthful and as transparent as humanly possible about like,

413
00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:19.100
this is what we expect.

414
00:18:19.100 --> 00:18:23.100
If you don't like that, or if your worldview is contrary to this,

415
00:18:23.100 --> 00:18:27.100
then you shouldn't work here, because there's another company that totally shares your worldview,

416
00:18:27.100 --> 00:18:28.100
and you would do great there.

417
00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:31.100
And there's other people who feel like misfits in the companies that they're in,

418
00:18:31.100 --> 00:18:33.100
and then work all the time, and they're frustrated that no one else does,

419
00:18:33.100 --> 00:18:37.100
and they are all like telling them they should slow down,

420
00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:41.100
coming with us, because we'll respond slack at 5 a.m. on Saturday,

421
00:18:41.100 --> 00:18:42.100
because we're on.

422
00:18:42.100 --> 00:18:48.100
But I just hardcore reject there is a right way to do things.

423
00:18:49.100 --> 00:18:52.100
In that example, you've touched on something I wanted to talk about,

424
00:18:52.100 --> 00:18:54.100
which relates to your first book, I believe,

425
00:18:54.100 --> 00:18:56.100
offers, making offers to be there.

426
00:18:56.100 --> 00:18:58.100
I read that you said,

427
00:18:58.100 --> 00:19:02.100
if there's one skill you have, it's making offers.

428
00:19:02.100 --> 00:19:05.100
What do you mean by making offers?

429
00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:09.100
So offers are the terms of exchange.

430
00:19:09.100 --> 00:19:13.100
So I, right before I started my first gym,

431
00:19:13.100 --> 00:19:16.100
I went to this weekend workshop to learn how to market,

432
00:19:16.100 --> 00:19:17.100
and get this.

433
00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:19.100
This is 2013.

434
00:19:19.100 --> 00:19:21.100
It was on Facebook ads.

435
00:19:21.100 --> 00:19:23.100
And so I got lucky.

436
00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:26.100
So I learned how to run Facebook ads in 2013,

437
00:19:26.100 --> 00:19:28.100
two weeks before I started my gym.

438
00:19:28.100 --> 00:19:30.100
This is when you're getting penny clicks,

439
00:19:30.100 --> 00:19:32.100
and you could put a girl with a bikini,

440
00:19:32.100 --> 00:19:34.100
and say, wait, loss, click here, and they would run.

441
00:19:34.100 --> 00:19:37.100
And so, at this thing, I hadn't opened my gym yet,

442
00:19:37.100 --> 00:19:40.100
and the guy was like a gym marketing dude,

443
00:19:40.100 --> 00:19:42.100
and he said,

444
00:19:42.100 --> 00:19:43.100
do you know the secret to sales?

445
00:19:43.100 --> 00:19:44.100
Because he could see I was aware of my head.

446
00:19:44.100 --> 00:19:46.100
All the other guys there were gym owners, except for me.

447
00:19:46.100 --> 00:19:48.100
And I was like, yeah, because I never,

448
00:19:48.100 --> 00:19:49.100
at that point, I never sold anything.

449
00:19:49.100 --> 00:19:51.100
I didn't even know the word sales was the thing.

450
00:19:51.100 --> 00:19:52.100
That's how out of it, what I was.

451
00:19:52.100 --> 00:19:54.100
And so he pulled me over the side,

452
00:19:54.100 --> 00:19:55.100
and he asked me that question,

453
00:19:55.100 --> 00:19:57.100
and I pulled my notebook out to learn the secret

454
00:19:57.100 --> 00:19:58.100
to sales as though it was one line.

455
00:19:58.100 --> 00:19:59.100
And it kind of was.

456
00:19:59.100 --> 00:20:01.100
He said, make people an offer.

457
00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:05.100
They feel stupid saying no to it.

458
00:20:05.100 --> 00:20:07.100
And I wrote it down and highlighted it,

459
00:20:07.100 --> 00:20:10.100
and that actually became like a core concept that we do

460
00:20:10.100 --> 00:20:12.100
in every business that we have,

461
00:20:12.100 --> 00:20:15.100
which is like, how can we make this offer better?

462
00:20:15.100 --> 00:20:18.100
How can we make it more valuable?

463
00:20:18.100 --> 00:20:20.100
And that was why defining value was such a key thing,

464
00:20:20.100 --> 00:20:21.100
because people like provide more value,

465
00:20:21.100 --> 00:20:23.100
make valuable content, and like, what does this mean?

466
00:20:23.100 --> 00:20:29.100
And so we boiled down value into four variables,

467
00:20:29.100 --> 00:20:31.100
and then there's things that enhance value,

468
00:20:31.100 --> 00:20:33.100
but like core variables and then things that enhance it.

469
00:20:33.100 --> 00:20:36.100
So like, one is like, what is the overall dream outcome

470
00:20:36.100 --> 00:20:37.100
of the customer?

471
00:20:37.100 --> 00:20:40.100
And so a difference in juxtaposition is like,

472
00:20:40.100 --> 00:20:42.100
fork guys, if I say I can help you make more money,

473
00:20:42.100 --> 00:20:43.100
versus I can help you lose weight,

474
00:20:43.100 --> 00:20:45.100
most guys would pay more for the thing

475
00:20:45.100 --> 00:20:47.100
that will give them more relative status.

476
00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:49.100
And so in that way, between two types,

477
00:20:49.100 --> 00:20:52.100
two categories of outcomes, this one will be more valuable.

478
00:20:52.100 --> 00:20:53.100
Okay, cool.

479
00:20:53.100 --> 00:20:55.100
Now, within everything, and let's call it weight loss,

480
00:20:55.100 --> 00:20:57.100
because that's an easy one everyone can understand,

481
00:20:57.100 --> 00:21:00.100
within weight loss, every other thing,

482
00:21:00.100 --> 00:21:03.100
between a $5 ebook and a $50,000 lipo-section surgery,

483
00:21:03.100 --> 00:21:04.100
the difference in those prices

484
00:21:04.100 --> 00:21:06.100
are the other value variables.

485
00:21:06.100 --> 00:21:09.100
And so the second variable is perceived

486
00:21:09.100 --> 00:21:11.100
like a good achievement, which is if I buy this thing,

487
00:21:11.100 --> 00:21:13.100
how likely do I think I will get the outcome?

488
00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:15.100
And so if I have a surgeon,

489
00:21:15.100 --> 00:21:17.100
that's going to do this lipo-section, for example,

490
00:21:17.100 --> 00:21:19.100
and it's the first surgery they've done out of medical school,

491
00:21:19.100 --> 00:21:22.100
and there's another surgeon that has done 10,000

492
00:21:22.100 --> 00:21:24.100
and has 10,000 five stars,

493
00:21:24.100 --> 00:21:26.100
which one would I be more likely to go to?

494
00:21:26.100 --> 00:21:28.100
The 10,000 five star surgery.

495
00:21:28.100 --> 00:21:30.100
Even if it actually takes that guy less time to do it,

496
00:21:30.100 --> 00:21:31.100
how unfair?

497
00:21:31.100 --> 00:21:34.100
But my perceived likelihood of getting what I want

498
00:21:34.100 --> 00:21:35.100
is significantly higher.

499
00:21:35.100 --> 00:21:37.100
So it's actually the equal opposite of risk.

500
00:21:38.100 --> 00:21:40.100
Those are the things that we try and enhance in the offers.

501
00:21:40.100 --> 00:21:42.100
We try and have a very compelling dream outcome,

502
00:21:42.100 --> 00:21:44.100
try and make it very likely that they're going to succeed,

503
00:21:44.100 --> 00:21:45.100
and give that there's lots of elements

504
00:21:45.100 --> 00:21:48.100
that make someone feel like it's likely they'll succeed.

505
00:21:48.100 --> 00:21:50.100
On the bottom half of the equation,

506
00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:51.100
so it's a fraction.

507
00:21:51.100 --> 00:21:53.100
There's two on the top, two on the bottom.

508
00:21:53.100 --> 00:21:56.100
You have time delay, between when they buy and when they get.

509
00:21:56.100 --> 00:21:59.100
So if someone were to go to click a button on a website,

510
00:21:59.100 --> 00:22:02.100
and immediately look at their stomach and have a six pack,

511
00:22:02.100 --> 00:22:05.100
that would be incredibly valuable, right?

512
00:22:05.100 --> 00:22:07.100
On the flip side, if it takes them two years in order to get that,

513
00:22:07.100 --> 00:22:09.100
it's significantly less valuable.

514
00:22:09.100 --> 00:22:11.100
And so for that same reason, you have to arm wrestle someone

515
00:22:11.100 --> 00:22:13.100
to get them to buy a personal training package.

516
00:22:13.100 --> 00:22:16.100
You have to spend an hour and a half to get them to buy a 20 pack

517
00:22:16.100 --> 00:22:20.100
of trading sessions, whereas women walk into the doctor's office

518
00:22:20.100 --> 00:22:23.100
to do liposuction and drop 20 times that amount of money

519
00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:25.100
because the time delay is nothing.

520
00:22:25.100 --> 00:22:29.100
You get on the table, you wake up and you're thin, right?

521
00:22:29.100 --> 00:22:32.100
Then the last variable is effort and sacrifice,

522
00:22:32.100 --> 00:22:34.100
which is two sides at the same coin.

523
00:22:34.100 --> 00:22:36.100
So effort are the things that you have to start doing

524
00:22:36.100 --> 00:22:38.100
that you don't want to do as a result of this purchase.

525
00:22:38.100 --> 00:22:43.100
Waking up early, getting sore, like in the workout example.

526
00:22:43.100 --> 00:22:45.100
Eating foods you hate.

527
00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:48.100
On the flip side, the sacrifice to the things that you have to give up

528
00:22:48.100 --> 00:22:50.100
that you don't want to give up as a result of this purchase.

529
00:22:50.100 --> 00:22:53.100
And so that might be sleeping in, eating the foods you enjoy,

530
00:22:53.100 --> 00:22:55.100
margarita Mondays, whatever.

531
00:22:55.100 --> 00:22:58.100
And so when you look at these variables, each of them has a,

532
00:22:58.100 --> 00:23:00.100
has an evil twin, right?

533
00:23:00.100 --> 00:23:02.100
So you've got perceived like of achievement which is the positive,

534
00:23:02.100 --> 00:23:04.100
and then you've got risk, which is the negative.

535
00:23:04.100 --> 00:23:06.100
You've got time delay, which is the negative version,

536
00:23:06.100 --> 00:23:08.100
you've got speed, which is the positive version.

537
00:23:08.100 --> 00:23:11.100
You've got effort and sacrifice, and you've got ease, right?

538
00:23:11.100 --> 00:23:13.100
And so when we're trying to make an offer,

539
00:23:13.100 --> 00:23:15.100
we try to think through each of these elements of value

540
00:23:15.100 --> 00:23:17.100
and think how can we maximize the upside,

541
00:23:17.100 --> 00:23:19.100
how can we get super, super likely they're going to hit it,

542
00:23:19.100 --> 00:23:20.100
paint the vision that they have it,

543
00:23:20.100 --> 00:23:23.100
and then on the bottom side, minimize the time delay

544
00:23:23.100 --> 00:23:26.100
between when they buy and when they get and how much they have to do.

545
00:23:26.100 --> 00:23:28.100
Because in a perfect world, the moment someone says,

546
00:23:28.100 --> 00:23:30.100
I want that thing, that beautiful dream outcome.

547
00:23:30.100 --> 00:23:32.100
They'd be virtually guaranteed they would get it.

548
00:23:32.100 --> 00:23:34.100
It would happen immediately, and it would be effortless.

549
00:23:34.100 --> 00:23:36.100
And I think that is the perfect ideal that we look at in terms of value,

550
00:23:36.100 --> 00:23:39.100
and as entrepreneurs, we innovate our way to just keep trying to chisel towards

551
00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:42.100
that perfect ideal outcome that we'll never actually get to.

552
00:23:42.100 --> 00:23:44.100
The other variables are like scarcity.

553
00:23:44.100 --> 00:23:46.100
If I have one gatorade bottle left on planet earth,

554
00:23:46.100 --> 00:23:48.100
it's significantly more valuable.

555
00:23:48.100 --> 00:23:50.100
I didn't change anything about the bottle itself,

556
00:23:50.100 --> 00:23:52.100
but it's significantly more valuable than if there's unlimited gatorades.

557
00:23:52.100 --> 00:23:53.100
Right?

558
00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:55.100
Urgency is, if gatorade, no matter how many gatorades

559
00:23:55.100 --> 00:23:57.100
there were on planet earth, I'll give it a different example.

560
00:23:57.100 --> 00:24:01.100
If jakey rolling decides that she's no longer in a cell,

561
00:24:01.100 --> 00:24:05.100
Harry Potter digital copies, ever again, as of tomorrow,

562
00:24:05.100 --> 00:24:07.100
there will be a lot of sales of the digital copy.

563
00:24:07.100 --> 00:24:09.100
Even though there's unlimited units.

564
00:24:09.100 --> 00:24:12.100
Scarcity is a function of units, urgency is a function of time.

565
00:24:12.100 --> 00:24:18.100
And so scarcity and urgency add to the value by enhancing those other four variables.

566
00:24:18.100 --> 00:24:22.100
There's more, but like those are the core things that we look at in terms of

567
00:24:22.100 --> 00:24:25.100
when we're trying to make an offer for a business.

568
00:24:26.100 --> 00:24:30.100
And so that becomes very relevant when we're trying to increase price

569
00:24:30.100 --> 00:24:32.100
for a business that we take on.

570
00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:33.100
So I'll give you an example.

571
00:24:33.100 --> 00:24:35.100
We had a PR company that we invested in.

572
00:24:35.100 --> 00:24:38.100
That was a generic PR company for small business owners.

573
00:24:38.100 --> 00:24:40.100
And they had really high churn,

574
00:24:40.100 --> 00:24:42.100
but they had a really good sales engine.

575
00:24:42.100 --> 00:24:44.100
I was like, okay, like, there's something here,

576
00:24:44.100 --> 00:24:45.100
but like, I think we need a tweet.

577
00:24:45.100 --> 00:24:47.100
I just really like the founder.

578
00:24:47.100 --> 00:24:50.100
85% of their customers were small business owners

579
00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:52.100
and turned out in like three or four months.

580
00:24:53.100 --> 00:24:57.100
15% of their customers bought the most expensive package and stayed like forever.

581
00:24:58.100 --> 00:25:01.100
And I was like, hey, crazy idea.

582
00:25:01.100 --> 00:25:03.100
What if we only served these customers?

583
00:25:03.100 --> 00:25:05.100
And they were people who wanted to get fundraising.

584
00:25:05.100 --> 00:25:08.100
Very different than the traditional like dry cleaning store, plumber or whatever.

585
00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:13.100
And so we redid the entire business model around finding only that niche.

586
00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:18.100
We only called, called, called, emailed people who were in that very narrow window.

587
00:25:18.100 --> 00:25:20.100
We're able to 10X our prices.

588
00:25:21.100 --> 00:25:25.100
And we got higher response rates than we did before because now we were targeting

589
00:25:25.100 --> 00:25:27.100
and speaking very specifically to an avatar.

590
00:25:27.100 --> 00:25:31.100
And now we can provide so much more value to that specific person.

591
00:25:31.100 --> 00:25:36.100
And so that's the maybe if Caleb were to answer that from a business perspective,

592
00:25:36.100 --> 00:25:40.100
like solving that equation is probably the thing that I enjoy the most

593
00:25:40.100 --> 00:25:45.100
because it is how I feel like I've unlocked the most value in a business,

594
00:25:45.100 --> 00:25:48.100
which is like, what are all the good things this business has?

595
00:25:49.100 --> 00:25:51.100
What are all the things it can do?

596
00:25:51.100 --> 00:25:52.100
Okay.

597
00:25:52.100 --> 00:25:56.100
Is there a way that we can rearrange it for a specific customer that will make significantly,

598
00:25:56.100 --> 00:25:59.100
that will make what we do significantly more valuable to them?

599
00:25:59.100 --> 00:26:02.100
And then that's what we try and repackage.

600
00:26:02.100 --> 00:26:06.100
And when we do that, that's oftentimes when we get like, with gym launch for me,

601
00:26:06.100 --> 00:26:09.100
I had the knowledge of how to help people lose weight,

602
00:26:09.100 --> 00:26:13.100
have the nutrition plans, I knew how to sell, I knew how to market.

603
00:26:13.100 --> 00:26:17.100
But it was only when I like rearranged the variables that I went from

604
00:26:17.100 --> 00:26:21.100
making a few million dollars a year in top line revenue and basically no profit

605
00:26:21.100 --> 00:26:25.100
to millions and millions of millions of dollars a year in top line and bottom line profit,

606
00:26:25.100 --> 00:26:27.100
simply by rearranging the variables.

607
00:26:27.100 --> 00:26:30.100
And that was just so ingrained in me that from that point going forward,

608
00:26:30.100 --> 00:26:34.100
I was like, I just have to make things that are so good that people will feel stupid say now.

609
00:26:34.100 --> 00:26:37.100
And if we can't get enough people to say yes, we need to make the offer better.

610
00:26:37.100 --> 00:26:42.100
And to me, that's been like the single thing that it affects all aspects of the business.

611
00:26:42.100 --> 00:26:44.100
It's the highest leverage thing I think you can do in the business,

612
00:26:44.100 --> 00:26:46.100
which is why it was the first book.

613
00:26:46.100 --> 00:26:49.100
Because answering the question, what do I sell is the first book.

614
00:26:49.100 --> 00:26:52.100
The second book leads is to whom do I sell it?

615
00:26:52.100 --> 00:26:53.100
I got to get leads, right?

616
00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:54.100
And that's the second book.

617
00:26:54.100 --> 00:26:58.100
But that affects pricing, it affects profit, it affects marketing, it affects sales,

618
00:26:58.100 --> 00:27:01.100
it affects delivery, like getting the offer affects everything.

619
00:27:01.100 --> 00:27:04.100
And it's one of the hardest things to change because it affects everything.

620
00:27:04.100 --> 00:27:10.100
But it also has the most ability to unlock incredible wealth or value in a business.

621
00:27:11.100 --> 00:27:12.100
Hey guys, real quick.

622
00:27:12.100 --> 00:27:16.100
If you're new to the podcast, I have a book on Amazon called 100 million dollar offers

623
00:27:16.100 --> 00:27:19.100
that over 8,000 five star reviews and it has almost a perfect score.

624
00:27:19.100 --> 00:27:21.100
You can get it for 99 cents on Kindle.

625
00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:24.100
The reason I bring it up is that I put over a thousand hours into writing that book.

626
00:27:24.100 --> 00:27:26.100
And it's my biggest gift to our community.

627
00:27:26.100 --> 00:27:30.100
So it's my very shameless way of trying to get you to like me more.

628
00:27:30.100 --> 00:27:33.100
And ultimately make more dollars to that later on in your business career.

629
00:27:33.100 --> 00:27:34.100
I can finish the part with you.

630
00:27:34.100 --> 00:27:36.100
So that's my gift. Go check it out.

631
00:27:36.100 --> 00:27:39.100
Amazon and back to the show.

632
00:27:39.100 --> 00:27:42.100
And the concept there is incredibly transferable.

633
00:27:42.100 --> 00:27:47.100
When you were going through the equation, trying to in some parts similar to an equation

634
00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:50.100
we used to have for competitions when we were trying to get people to sign up for competitions.

635
00:27:50.100 --> 00:27:54.100
The idea when we sort of like it was an equation where on one end, little investment.

636
00:27:54.100 --> 00:27:56.100
So just click here and you're entered.

637
00:27:56.100 --> 00:28:00.100
High perception that you have a chance of winning.

638
00:28:00.100 --> 00:28:04.100
So if there's 10 prizes and you can see there's 10 entrance, your brain goes,

639
00:28:04.100 --> 00:28:06.100
okay, all I had to do was click.

640
00:28:06.100 --> 00:28:11.100
And then in the competition aspect, we thought a lot about credibility.

641
00:28:11.100 --> 00:28:13.100
Because that's a big factor in competitions.

642
00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:18.100
Like do I think anyone's going to win and do trust these people to even give out a prize?

643
00:28:18.100 --> 00:28:20.100
And it's even the same thing.

644
00:28:20.100 --> 00:28:28.100
And it's even the same thing in content when you're thinking about a title for your YouTube videos.

645
00:28:28.100 --> 00:28:31.100
Five minute six pack abs.

646
00:28:32.100 --> 00:28:34.100
Yeah, it's a fantastic equation.

647
00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:37.100
Little investment, high potential reward apparently.

648
00:28:37.100 --> 00:28:41.100
And that's also, you know, there's even another thing which I've thought about,

649
00:28:41.100 --> 00:28:46.100
which I've not been able to necessarily explain, which is why people are more likely to click on things.

650
00:28:46.100 --> 00:28:51.100
I guess it's ease when it says things like five steps to finding love.

651
00:28:51.100 --> 00:28:53.100
Versus like how to find love.

652
00:28:53.100 --> 00:28:56.100
Five steps, I guess it's that ease point.

653
00:28:56.100 --> 00:28:58.100
It feels more accessible, just five steps.

654
00:28:58.100 --> 00:29:00.100
Yeah, proceed like an achievement.

655
00:29:00.100 --> 00:29:02.100
Like what's my risk of not achieving?

656
00:29:02.100 --> 00:29:05.100
If there's five steps that feels easier than just how to maybe.

657
00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:15.100
When you think about where you are in your journey, as an entrepreneur,

658
00:29:15.100 --> 00:29:18.100
and you think about it, maybe it's like steps.

659
00:29:18.100 --> 00:29:21.100
How far are you at that staircase?

660
00:29:21.100 --> 00:29:23.100
Would you not know?

661
00:29:24.100 --> 00:29:27.100
I felt like that was going to be the question that you were going to ask,

662
00:29:27.100 --> 00:29:30.100
and I was thinking, I feel like every entrepreneur feels like they're just getting started.

663
00:29:30.100 --> 00:29:33.100
Like you talked to guys in their 70s, they're like, I'm just getting started.

664
00:29:33.100 --> 00:29:37.100
I mean, I'm about to cross a decade of big.

665
00:29:37.100 --> 00:29:42.100
Right, just at the decade point for me from the first business I started to know.

666
00:29:42.100 --> 00:29:47.100
So I feel like I've got a few seasons left, you know, if I can keep living,

667
00:29:47.100 --> 00:29:50.100
which I'd be stoked about if I can.

668
00:29:50.100 --> 00:29:52.100
Let me ask a different question.

669
00:29:52.100 --> 00:29:54.100
Caleb in the corner who works for you, he's a creative director.

670
00:29:54.100 --> 00:29:59.100
If Caleb said to me, you know, Caleb said to you, he said, Alex,

671
00:29:59.100 --> 00:30:01.100
I want to be a millionaire.

672
00:30:04.100 --> 00:30:06.100
What would you say to him?

673
00:30:06.100 --> 00:30:07.100
What advice would you give to him?

674
00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:09.100
He says, listen, I've heard you doing all these podcasts, you're running around,

675
00:30:09.100 --> 00:30:12.100
I've been filming the camera, but I've been filming, I've been listening.

676
00:30:12.100 --> 00:30:15.100
And this millionaire stuff, this sounds amazing.

677
00:30:15.100 --> 00:30:18.100
So what advice, how old are you Caleb?

678
00:30:18.100 --> 00:30:19.100
29.

679
00:30:19.100 --> 00:30:21.100
What advice would you give to 29 year old Caleb?

680
00:30:21.100 --> 00:30:23.100
If he said to you, Alex, how do you know me?

681
00:30:23.100 --> 00:30:25.100
How do you think I become a millionaire?

682
00:30:25.100 --> 00:30:28.100
There's a lot of ways to do it, it just depends on which way you want to go.

683
00:30:28.100 --> 00:30:32.100
So say, first off, you can stay at acquisition.com, that'll probably happen.

684
00:30:32.100 --> 00:30:35.100
On a long enough time, Ross and just because we're going to get really big.

685
00:30:35.100 --> 00:30:36.100
We're already pretty big.

686
00:30:36.100 --> 00:30:38.100
And we're just getting started.

687
00:30:38.100 --> 00:30:41.100
So like I genuinely believe that.

688
00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:47.100
And that's 100% my goals at every single person that we have becomes very, very wealthy.

689
00:30:47.100 --> 00:30:50.100
Because I'm willing to die and it's not going to matter anyway, isn't it?

690
00:30:50.100 --> 00:30:52.100
If everybody else can make some too, great.

691
00:30:52.100 --> 00:30:54.100
So that is a path.

692
00:30:54.100 --> 00:30:58.100
Another path is he peels off and goes on his own and starts a business of some sort.

693
00:30:58.100 --> 00:31:02.100
And so it depends on whether he wants to make the business itself what his core skill is,

694
00:31:02.100 --> 00:31:05.100
which would be like media and maybe services around media.

695
00:31:05.100 --> 00:31:12.100
Or using the skill that he has of media in an opportunity and he gets two or three other people

696
00:31:12.100 --> 00:31:14.100
to maybe co-found it with who have other complimentary skills.

697
00:31:14.100 --> 00:31:19.100
And then he just runs that division or portion of the business within the larger context.

698
00:31:19.100 --> 00:31:23.100
And that's like a classic question of like, I'm really good at making wallets.

699
00:31:23.100 --> 00:31:25.100
Like, what do I do?

700
00:31:25.100 --> 00:31:27.100
It's like, well, you can continue to make them.

701
00:31:27.100 --> 00:31:30.100
And then when you can't make as many as you have demand because you're so good at it,

702
00:31:30.100 --> 00:31:34.100
you can either raise the price and just continue to keep raising the prices

703
00:31:34.100 --> 00:31:37.100
until eventually become Versace of wallets.

704
00:31:37.100 --> 00:31:41.100
And you make tons of profit but you don't have tons of units and that's okay in your luxury brand.

705
00:31:41.100 --> 00:31:48.100
Or you put on the business owner hat and you say, okay, how do I mechanize the wallet building process

706
00:31:48.100 --> 00:31:50.100
and I become more business-y.

707
00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:53.100
And so I think it's like, do I want to be the artist or do I want to be the entrepreneur?

708
00:31:53.100 --> 00:31:54.100
Both of them are fine.

709
00:31:54.100 --> 00:31:59.100
It depends which one you feel like you're more naturally inclined to or have a higher likelihood of success doing.

710
00:31:59.100 --> 00:32:01.100
I like the game of business.

711
00:32:01.100 --> 00:32:03.100
I've played lots of different games in terms of industries.

712
00:32:03.100 --> 00:32:04.100
Like, I like the game overall.

713
00:32:04.100 --> 00:32:06.100
I don't feel like I have a particular art.

714
00:32:06.100 --> 00:32:09.100
Like, I don't think I'm really good at any aspect of business.

715
00:32:09.100 --> 00:32:13.100
I feel like I've been decent enough to not make one of them the constraint.

716
00:32:13.100 --> 00:32:17.100
Like, I'm not a great copywriter but I'm good enough that that's not going to be the limiter.

717
00:32:17.100 --> 00:32:23.100
Like, I'm good enough at hiring that I can make sure that that's not the limiting factor.

718
00:32:23.100 --> 00:32:26.100
Right? And so that's kind of how I think about it in terms of business growth overall

719
00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:30.100
and so it'd be the same thing with Caleb is like, we have to identify what the constraint of the system is

720
00:32:30.100 --> 00:32:32.100
and then deconstrain it.

721
00:32:32.100 --> 00:32:36.100
When you say talent stacking, if I do say that a few times, what do you mean by that?

722
00:32:36.100 --> 00:32:41.100
So, this is one of my favorite topics.

723
00:32:41.100 --> 00:32:46.100
Many skills like one plus one equals five when you put them together.

724
00:32:46.100 --> 00:32:49.100
So, let's say you have somebody who's really good at math in the beginning.

725
00:32:49.100 --> 00:32:52.100
That as a skill, not super monetizable, right?

726
00:32:52.100 --> 00:32:54.100
Okay, well then you learn bookkeeping.

727
00:32:54.100 --> 00:32:58.100
Okay, well now you had a proclivity for math but you learned something that has value in the business world.

728
00:32:58.100 --> 00:33:03.100
Okay, then you learn to get your CPA and I become an account more valuable.

729
00:33:03.100 --> 00:33:10.100
Then you start studying around tax law and insurance and you're like, oh, significantly more valuable.

730
00:33:10.100 --> 00:33:14.100
And then you learn how to how capital markets work and how debt markets work, right?

731
00:33:14.100 --> 00:33:17.100
And you understand how mergers and acquisitions work.

732
00:33:17.100 --> 00:33:21.100
And all of a sudden, you're a CFO and then you learn how to sell and promote a little bit.

733
00:33:21.100 --> 00:33:23.100
And all of a sudden, now you're a rainmaker.

734
00:33:23.100 --> 00:33:26.100
And so you still need to be good at math.

735
00:33:26.100 --> 00:33:32.100
But when you stack these other skills on top of it, the original math skill becomes significantly more valuable

736
00:33:32.100 --> 00:33:34.100
when you have these skills on top.

737
00:33:34.100 --> 00:33:40.100
But each one kind of requires the one before, which is why one of the things I hate about kind of the entrepreneur world a little bit

738
00:33:40.100 --> 00:33:43.100
is like, they'll learn something new and then poo poo the thing before.

739
00:33:43.100 --> 00:33:47.100
It's like, I'm not upset the teacher who taught me arithmetic because I learned algebra.

740
00:33:47.100 --> 00:33:49.100
One was necessary for the next.

741
00:33:49.100 --> 00:33:56.100
And so, as entrepreneurs, a lot of times it takes, I think the self-awareness to say like,

742
00:33:56.100 --> 00:34:00.100
where am I at on my skill stacking adventure, right?

743
00:34:00.100 --> 00:34:06.100
And each skill, every skill you add to your skill tool about, makes the rest of your skills more valuable.

744
00:34:06.100 --> 00:34:08.100
Which is why I think it's so cool.

745
00:34:08.100 --> 00:34:11.100
Which is why I'm such a big advocate for education overall.

746
00:34:11.100 --> 00:34:14.100
And that's, I mean, mission of academic, business, successful, and everyone.

747
00:34:14.100 --> 00:34:16.100
That's why you put all this free stuff out there.

748
00:34:16.100 --> 00:34:20.100
It's because if we can give people enough skills, they'll be able to stack them on their own and then just achieve whatever they want.

749
00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:22.100
In a totally different way, if you allow me to go there.

750
00:34:22.100 --> 00:34:24.100
It's like, you look at Jay-Z, right?

751
00:34:25.100 --> 00:34:27.100
Maybe he was someone who naturally had rhythm, right?

752
00:34:27.100 --> 00:34:29.100
And so then all of a sudden, he learned how to rap.

753
00:34:29.100 --> 00:34:31.100
Okay, took his rhythm, put it in the rap.

754
00:34:31.100 --> 00:34:34.100
Okay. And then he made his first GD.

755
00:34:34.100 --> 00:34:37.100
Okay. And then he learned how to promote.

756
00:34:37.100 --> 00:34:38.100
Oh, significantly more valuable.

757
00:34:38.100 --> 00:34:40.100
And then he learned how to make a label.

758
00:34:40.100 --> 00:34:42.100
And then he learned how to recruit other artists.

759
00:34:42.100 --> 00:34:47.100
And so he still needed to learn how to know how to promote the other artists.

760
00:34:47.100 --> 00:34:49.100
If he didn't know how to promote at all, he wouldn't have been able to do it.

761
00:34:49.100 --> 00:34:53.100
But once he had the label, he got significantly more leverage on the skill of promotion.

762
00:34:53.100 --> 00:34:56.100
And he could recognize people because of his skill in rapping and rhythm.

763
00:34:56.100 --> 00:34:59.100
And so like each of these skills stacks on top.

764
00:34:59.100 --> 00:35:04.100
And then eventually he pinnigled into Beyonce as his top skill.

765
00:35:04.100 --> 00:35:05.100
I'm just kidding.

766
00:35:05.100 --> 00:35:07.100
Where is he going?

767
00:35:07.100 --> 00:35:09.100
But no, but like that's the idea.

768
00:35:09.100 --> 00:35:12.100
And that's why I'm just like learn the skill, find the next skill.

769
00:35:12.100 --> 00:35:17.100
And the nice thing is that it doesn't even matter how disparate the skills are.

770
00:35:17.100 --> 00:35:21.100
Like if Jay-Z is really good at math and understands capital markets and understands the label,

771
00:35:21.100 --> 00:35:26.100
those combined tune to another cool melange or a little French word, like mix of skills

772
00:35:26.100 --> 00:35:28.100
that's like unique to Jay-Z.

773
00:35:28.100 --> 00:35:33.100
And the longer you play the game, the more skills you get and the more unique your mix of skills is.

774
00:35:33.100 --> 00:35:38.100
And that to me is like the coolest part about business and just like education in general.

775
00:35:38.100 --> 00:35:45.100
I stumbled across a bit of a similar but maybe a Jason idea in my career where

776
00:35:46.100 --> 00:35:52.100
when I learned, when my company went public on a stock exchange in Europe.

777
00:35:52.100 --> 00:35:56.100
I then learned from an investment bank when we were having the meetings with the banks.

778
00:35:56.100 --> 00:35:59.100
We went on this road show and met 20 different investment banks.

779
00:35:59.100 --> 00:36:02.100
We were considering an IPO in another country.

780
00:36:02.100 --> 00:36:09.100
They told me that our business would be worth four times more if it was just on a different stock market.

781
00:36:09.100 --> 00:36:14.100
If you move it to the NASDAQ, the exact same business would be worth four times more.

782
00:36:14.100 --> 00:36:18.100
Which meant that my net worth would be four X just by taking the exact same business

783
00:36:18.100 --> 00:36:20.100
and moving it to a different stock exchange.

784
00:36:20.100 --> 00:36:24.100
And I thought about that a couple years later when I was thinking about the skill set that I had acquired

785
00:36:24.100 --> 00:36:28.100
in my career, which was this skill set of marketing and social media and entrepreneurship.

786
00:36:28.100 --> 00:36:36.100
And I was thinking you have to not just have the skill but know what market to apply it to

787
00:36:36.100 --> 00:36:38.100
and what ended up happening.

788
00:36:38.100 --> 00:36:40.100
I've never told this story before.

789
00:36:40.100 --> 00:36:50.100
But I looked for an industry where my skill set was in least supply but highest demand and returned the greatest.

790
00:36:50.100 --> 00:36:54.100
And it turned out that industry in terms of social media marketing and storytelling,

791
00:36:54.100 --> 00:37:03.100
I felt was most in demand and would return the greatest value for companies that were about to IPO.

792
00:37:03.100 --> 00:37:09.100
Because essentially when you're going to IPO, if you have a good story, it can swing your valuation by hundreds of millions

793
00:37:09.100 --> 00:37:15.100
or in the case of the first company I worked with when their IPO listed at three billion, billions.

794
00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:19.100
And so my skill set of social media and marketing, I could do what with it.

795
00:37:19.100 --> 00:37:25.100
I could go help with local gym and get paid a thousand bucks or I could go help a company that was in the lead up to an IPO.

796
00:37:25.100 --> 00:37:32.100
That was where I can potentially have hundreds of millions in value and take seven million as part of an equity deal.

797
00:37:32.100 --> 00:37:42.100
So upon leaving my first company, the equity arrangement that I had was valued somewhere between four, I'm going to say between, it depends because I share price fluctuated.

798
00:37:42.100 --> 00:37:52.100
But I think on the day of the IPO, the equity that I got for the nine to twelve months work that I'd done was worth in the region of seven to eight million dollars.

799
00:37:52.100 --> 00:37:54.100
Nine months work.

800
00:37:54.100 --> 00:37:55.100
Yeah.

801
00:37:55.100 --> 00:37:56.100
Basically freelance.

802
00:37:56.100 --> 00:37:57.100
Yeah.

803
00:37:57.100 --> 00:38:03.100
You know, same skill stack, but applied to an industry that would pay me more for the same skills.

804
00:38:03.100 --> 00:38:04.100
And so I thought a lot about that.

805
00:38:04.100 --> 00:38:07.100
And that's ultimately why we started our company, which is now called Flight Story.

806
00:38:07.100 --> 00:38:10.100
We have probably the time of the airing this about a hundred people.

807
00:38:10.100 --> 00:38:12.100
We started the company about a year and a half ago.

808
00:38:12.100 --> 00:38:13.100
Oh, crazy.

809
00:38:13.100 --> 00:38:14.100
And that's basically that.

810
00:38:14.100 --> 00:38:17.100
It's applying the skill set we have to industries where that need it.

811
00:38:17.100 --> 00:38:19.100
And we started out in the IPO market.

812
00:38:19.100 --> 00:38:22.100
A little bit of work in this biotech market.

813
00:38:22.100 --> 00:38:24.100
And now we've kind of broadened out.

814
00:38:24.100 --> 00:38:25.100
But people don't think about that a lot.

815
00:38:25.100 --> 00:38:28.100
You're like, my skill set, where is it in high-stemon and can pay the most?

816
00:38:28.100 --> 00:38:30.100
A hundred percent.

817
00:38:30.100 --> 00:38:33.100
I thoroughly agree with everything you just said.

818
00:38:33.100 --> 00:38:35.100
I also think that that's a skill.

819
00:38:37.100 --> 00:38:39.100
I wish someone just said it to me.

820
00:38:39.100 --> 00:38:40.100
Oh, yeah, totally.

821
00:38:40.100 --> 00:38:42.100
And that's the, like, information to me.

822
00:38:42.100 --> 00:38:47.100
It's like the most like, you know, the biggest debt, one of the things that I love saying this.

823
00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:50.100
But like, the biggest debt all of us pay is ignorance.

824
00:38:50.100 --> 00:38:54.100
And so I heard this close at this pitch years ago.

825
00:38:54.100 --> 00:38:58.100
And this guy got on stage and he was like, hey, ma'am, she was like, how much do you make?

826
00:38:58.100 --> 00:38:59.100
She was like $50,000.

827
00:38:59.100 --> 00:39:02.100
She wrote $50,000 on the whiteboard.

828
00:39:02.100 --> 00:39:05.100
And then he wrote a million dollars on top of the $50,000.

829
00:39:05.100 --> 00:39:07.100
And he subtracted it and said, $950,000.

830
00:39:07.100 --> 00:39:14.100
He said, you pay life, $950,000 every single year for not knowing how to make a million dollars a year.

831
00:39:14.100 --> 00:39:16.100
And it was a crazy concept.

832
00:39:16.100 --> 00:39:17.100
And he was using it to close the audience.

833
00:39:17.100 --> 00:39:23.100
But I, like, the most expensive thing that all of us are paying for is the information that we don't know.

834
00:39:23.100 --> 00:39:25.100
And that's like both frightening and also incredibly exciting.

835
00:39:25.100 --> 00:39:29.100
Because like, fish in the best ponds, right?

836
00:39:29.100 --> 00:39:31.100
Like a good fisherman knows where to fish.

837
00:39:31.100 --> 00:39:35.100
And everybody can put a hook and a thing and stick it over the water.

838
00:39:35.100 --> 00:39:37.100
But like the best fisherman know where and when, et cetera.

839
00:39:37.100 --> 00:39:39.100
And that's exactly the story that you said.

840
00:39:39.100 --> 00:39:42.100
Like I had the hook and I had the, the real and all that stuff.

841
00:39:42.100 --> 00:39:45.100
Like I went to where the best, where the best fishing was.

842
00:39:45.100 --> 00:39:46.100
And like to me, that skill.

843
00:39:46.100 --> 00:39:47.100
Same work.

844
00:39:47.100 --> 00:39:48.100
Yeah.

845
00:39:48.100 --> 00:39:49.100
Same amount of time, same rod.

846
00:39:49.100 --> 00:39:51.100
Or zeros.

847
00:39:51.100 --> 00:39:55.100
One of the things in the first book is like, you want to, like sell better customers.

848
00:39:55.100 --> 00:39:58.100
So if you want to sell better customers.

849
00:39:58.100 --> 00:39:59.100
Yeah.

850
00:39:59.100 --> 00:40:01.100
Like the, it's the exact same thing you just said.

851
00:40:01.100 --> 00:40:06.100
Which is like, if I were to do CRO work, so conversion and optimization for a website that's e-commerce.

852
00:40:06.100 --> 00:40:08.100
And I work for a store that's doing a million dollars a year.

853
00:40:08.100 --> 00:40:12.100
And I say, cool, I'm able to increase your conversion error set by 20%.

854
00:40:12.100 --> 00:40:13.100
Okay, cool.

855
00:40:13.100 --> 00:40:15.100
So now that's doing $1.2 million a year.

856
00:40:15.100 --> 00:40:16.100
I made $200,000 in value.

857
00:40:16.100 --> 00:40:18.100
And maybe I can get 10% of that.

858
00:40:18.100 --> 00:40:19.100
I get 20 grand.

859
00:40:19.100 --> 00:40:20.100
Okay, cool.

860
00:40:20.100 --> 00:40:23.100
I do the same work to a business doing $100 million a year.

861
00:40:23.100 --> 00:40:26.100
I make them $20 million from my 20% bump.

862
00:40:26.100 --> 00:40:29.100
And I get 10% of that and I make $2 million.

863
00:40:29.100 --> 00:40:33.100
20,000, $2 million, $100x.

864
00:40:33.100 --> 00:40:35.100
Same work to your point.

865
00:40:35.100 --> 00:40:36.100
And to me, that's skill.

866
00:40:36.100 --> 00:40:39.100
Like to know that simple, simple fact.

867
00:40:39.100 --> 00:40:42.100
Like I had this tweet that was super viral, which was, uh,

868
00:40:42.100 --> 00:40:43.100
solve rich people problems.

869
00:40:43.100 --> 00:40:44.100
They pay better.

870
00:40:44.100 --> 00:40:47.100
A lot of controversy around that.

871
00:40:47.100 --> 00:40:49.100
Um, but it's true.

872
00:40:49.100 --> 00:40:52.100
And so find the people.

873
00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:58.100
And a different way of saying it is, find the people who value what you have the most.

874
00:40:58.100 --> 00:41:02.100
And I'm sure you've heard this, have you heard the story of the father and the son with the car?

875
00:41:02.100 --> 00:41:03.100
No.

876
00:41:03.100 --> 00:41:04.100
Okay.

877
00:41:04.100 --> 00:41:05.100
Maybe I have fun.

878
00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:06.100
Okay.

879
00:41:06.100 --> 00:41:07.100
No, it's good.

880
00:41:07.100 --> 00:41:08.100
It's good.

881
00:41:08.100 --> 00:41:12.100
So there's, there's a father who gives his son an old beat up car.

882
00:41:12.100 --> 00:41:17.100
And he says, you know, hey, I don't know if it drives or not, but you can take it down to the, um,

883
00:41:17.100 --> 00:41:18.100
the dealership down the street.

884
00:41:18.100 --> 00:41:19.100
See if you can trade and get some money.

885
00:41:19.100 --> 00:41:20.100
He was like, okay.

886
00:41:20.100 --> 00:41:22.100
So he goes down the street, goes to the dealership.

887
00:41:22.100 --> 00:41:25.100
They say, we give you a thousand bucks for it.

888
00:41:25.100 --> 00:41:27.100
And he come, you know, here's a map.

889
00:41:27.100 --> 00:41:28.100
Comes back home.

890
00:41:28.100 --> 00:41:29.100
He's like, yeah, they say give me a thousand bucks.

891
00:41:29.100 --> 00:41:30.100
He's like, okay.

892
00:41:30.100 --> 00:41:33.100
He's like, go to the impound yard where they, you know, break the cars up just for metal.

893
00:41:33.100 --> 00:41:34.100
He's like, see what they'll give you.

894
00:41:34.100 --> 00:41:35.100
He goes there.

895
00:41:35.100 --> 00:41:38.100
And the guy's like, ah, I don't know.

896
00:41:38.100 --> 00:41:40.100
This might be 500 bucks of metal.

897
00:41:40.100 --> 00:41:41.100
Okay.

898
00:41:41.100 --> 00:41:42.100
Like, you know, it comes back home.

899
00:41:42.100 --> 00:41:44.100
He's like, dad, you know, he said it was going to be 500 dollars.

900
00:41:44.100 --> 00:41:45.100
He's like, okay.

901
00:41:45.100 --> 00:41:49.100
He's like, hey, go down the street to that, uh, that antique dealership.

902
00:41:49.100 --> 00:41:51.100
See if they've got anything that you use car a lot.

903
00:41:51.100 --> 00:41:52.100
He's like, okay.

904
00:41:52.100 --> 00:41:55.100
See, he goes down there, talks to the guy.

905
00:41:55.100 --> 00:41:56.100
Comes back home.

906
00:41:56.100 --> 00:41:57.100
Super.

907
00:41:57.100 --> 00:41:58.100
He's like, dad, you won't believe it.

908
00:41:58.100 --> 00:42:00.100
He's like, this is a historic car.

909
00:42:00.100 --> 00:42:04.900
There's only like 10 of them left is like, it's worth a hundred thousand dollars.

910
00:42:04.900 --> 00:42:08.940
And so the father smiles and he's like, and the less than I want you to know is that it's

911
00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:12.900
not necessarily who you are, but the people that value you the most.

912
00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:18.100
And so you can talk to different people and go to the people who value you.

913
00:42:18.100 --> 00:42:22.460
And I just, I love that story because it's a huge, it's a huge business story in terms

914
00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:26.100
of like sell, sell where the fish are, where the big fish are.

915
00:42:26.100 --> 00:42:29.420
Like if you, if you're going to go hook fish, go to, go where the whales are, um, it takes

916
00:42:29.420 --> 00:42:30.420
the same work.

917
00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:31.420
But a lot of it's just belief.

918
00:42:31.420 --> 00:42:32.420
People don't think it's possible.

919
00:42:32.420 --> 00:42:34.420
And so a lot of times you have to just keep leveling up and you sell your first ten

920
00:42:34.420 --> 00:42:37.420
thousand dollar thing, you sell your first hundred thousand dollar thing, sell your first

921
00:42:37.420 --> 00:42:39.420
multi-million dollar package.

922
00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:41.420
You realize that's the exact same thing.

923
00:42:41.420 --> 00:42:45.020
It's just, so maybe if I'm list, if anybody's listing right now, it is the same thing.

924
00:42:45.020 --> 00:42:46.020
It's the exact same thing.

925
00:42:46.020 --> 00:42:47.020
And sometimes it's easier.

926
00:42:47.020 --> 00:42:48.020
It's so easy.

927
00:42:48.020 --> 00:42:54.740
Like, you know, you've seen that meme that says like, uh, so what exactly am I going to be

928
00:42:54.740 --> 00:42:56.740
getting for this fifty dollar thing, right?

929
00:42:56.740 --> 00:43:00.620
And then it's like, uh, fifty thousand dollar clients like wire sent yesterday, like, what

930
00:43:00.620 --> 00:43:01.620
do you else do you need?

931
00:43:01.620 --> 00:43:03.380
Like it's, and that's totally true.

932
00:43:03.380 --> 00:43:08.700
Um, but I think there's a skill in understanding where to fish.

933
00:43:08.700 --> 00:43:13.900
Certainly a skill, um, information, it's information, it's even knowing that there was another

934
00:43:13.900 --> 00:43:14.900
lake over there.

935
00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:18.740
And that's why like listening to conversations like, this is so valuable for people because

936
00:43:18.740 --> 00:43:19.740
it lifts a curtain.

937
00:43:19.740 --> 00:43:22.940
And you know, what the fuck you guys were behind here the whole time partying?

938
00:43:22.940 --> 00:43:25.020
That's what my business life has been like.

939
00:43:25.020 --> 00:43:29.020
It's like a graduate like the, I think I had Kevin Hart describe on Joe Rogan one time

940
00:43:29.020 --> 00:43:33.380
where he said, there's this other room, yeah, where these people are playing this other

941
00:43:33.380 --> 00:43:34.580
set of money games.

942
00:43:34.580 --> 00:43:35.580
Yeah.

943
00:43:35.580 --> 00:43:38.020
And then when you get in that room, you get your almost pissed off that nobody told you

944
00:43:38.020 --> 00:43:40.420
this room existed, but then there's another door.

945
00:43:40.420 --> 00:43:41.420
Yeah.

946
00:43:41.420 --> 00:43:42.420
Yeah.

947
00:43:42.420 --> 00:43:43.420
And then you get through there.

948
00:43:43.420 --> 00:43:46.700
Maybe a couple of years later and you find these other people, these fucking billionaires

949
00:43:46.700 --> 00:43:49.020
that are playing another set of games and you're going, what?

950
00:43:49.020 --> 00:43:50.020
And they're chilling.

951
00:43:50.020 --> 00:43:51.020
Yeah.

952
00:43:51.580 --> 00:43:52.580
They're just smoking cigars.

953
00:43:52.580 --> 00:43:53.620
They're not even doing any hard work.

954
00:43:53.620 --> 00:43:56.220
And you go, tell me the games that you guys have been playing in here.

955
00:43:56.220 --> 00:43:57.220
Yeah.

956
00:43:57.220 --> 00:44:00.540
And then again, the frustration is, and that's kind of what I feel like in my business life,

957
00:44:00.540 --> 00:44:03.860
it's been like where at the jump I'm charging, I don't know.

958
00:44:03.860 --> 00:44:07.460
I remember my first, we found our first deck from 2014 charging.

959
00:44:07.460 --> 00:44:09.700
I remember the package we'd gold silver and bronze.

960
00:44:09.700 --> 00:44:14.100
It was like, you know, $200 package for like support and then $500.

961
00:44:14.100 --> 00:44:18.180
And then the gold package will be through everything in for $1,000.

962
00:44:18.180 --> 00:44:21.580
And I remember one of my first clients accepting that.

963
00:44:21.580 --> 00:44:25.140
And then I think today, like the only difference, okay, there's skills that have increased.

964
00:44:25.140 --> 00:44:27.020
But information is the big thing.

965
00:44:27.020 --> 00:44:31.860
Knowing how to do it, you know.

966
00:44:31.860 --> 00:44:36.300
When you think about curtains that have lifted, that have really shifted the games you play

967
00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:40.140
from a value money perspective, like where someone's tying the lights when you give,

968
00:44:40.140 --> 00:44:41.140
ah, of course.

969
00:44:41.140 --> 00:44:42.140
Yeah.

970
00:44:42.140 --> 00:44:45.260
Is there anything else that comes to mind?

971
00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:47.460
Like big macro games there.

972
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:54.340
I think a big, you know, when I, the big, I will answer it with the stair steps

973
00:44:54.340 --> 00:44:57.820
of how each order of magnitude change in my income.

974
00:44:57.820 --> 00:45:00.940
So when I went from being an employee to self-employed,

975
00:45:00.940 --> 00:45:04.340
I went from making four figures a month to five figures a month.

976
00:45:04.340 --> 00:45:07.220
And that was for me just like, I am now in control.

977
00:45:07.220 --> 00:45:10.380
The level above that was I started having other people who worked for me.

978
00:45:10.380 --> 00:45:11.460
I didn't even know that was possible.

979
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:12.460
Sounds crazy.

980
00:45:12.460 --> 00:45:15.420
But like I was like, you can hire people because my members of my gym were like,

981
00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:17.540
you know, other people can work here.

982
00:45:17.540 --> 00:45:20.140
I'm like cleaning the floor and doing the marketing and teaching the class.

983
00:45:20.140 --> 00:45:21.540
They're like, I was like, I didn't think about that.

984
00:45:21.540 --> 00:45:22.540
Fuck off.

985
00:45:22.540 --> 00:45:23.540
Right.

986
00:45:23.540 --> 00:45:25.260
And then what's this six figures a month, right?

987
00:45:25.260 --> 00:45:30.060
And then from there, stayed there, did the turnaround business, still had the same organizational

988
00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:32.100
structure, had another degree of leverage.

989
00:45:32.100 --> 00:45:35.060
And so the next degree of leverage was that I started licensing.

990
00:45:35.060 --> 00:45:36.060
So it was digital, right?

991
00:45:36.060 --> 00:45:38.940
So the cost per, you know, cost of goods was basically nothing.

992
00:45:38.940 --> 00:45:40.980
And then that's when things started skyrocketing.

993
00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:42.940
That got me two seven figures a month.

994
00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:46.860
And then eight figures a month was using leverage through capital, which is where, you know,

995
00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:47.860
we're at now.

996
00:45:47.860 --> 00:45:51.660
And I would imagine that nine figures a month will probably be some level of technology

997
00:45:51.660 --> 00:45:55.140
or more media on my side.

998
00:45:55.140 --> 00:45:57.020
But all of these things are about leverage.

999
00:45:57.020 --> 00:45:59.740
And so this is like one of my favorite topics in the whole world.

1000
00:45:59.740 --> 00:46:03.380
But we define leverage as the difference between what you put in and what you get out.

1001
00:46:03.380 --> 00:46:05.580
So if you have a lot of leverage, put a little bit in, you get a lot out.

1002
00:46:05.580 --> 00:46:08.340
If you have no leverage or low leverage, you put a lot in, you get a little bit out.

1003
00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:10.740
And a lot of times people who are listening to this and are not making as much money as

1004
00:46:10.740 --> 00:46:11.740
they want.

1005
00:46:11.740 --> 00:46:13.260
They're putting lots of input in and not getting a lot out.

1006
00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:15.460
They have low leverage opportunities.

1007
00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:22.540
And so understanding how to get more for what you put in is the game overall.

1008
00:46:22.540 --> 00:46:25.820
And so the first level that I described was labor.

1009
00:46:25.820 --> 00:46:26.820
It's just work.

1010
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:28.780
First I was working for someone else that I worked for myself and I got other people to

1011
00:46:28.780 --> 00:46:29.780
work for me.

1012
00:46:29.780 --> 00:46:32.380
First level in each of those levels was more leverage.

1013
00:46:32.380 --> 00:46:36.140
Above that I had media, which is the thing that I was licensing out.

1014
00:46:36.140 --> 00:46:40.020
So another degree of leverage I made it once and I could license that out infinity.

1015
00:46:40.020 --> 00:46:41.020
On top of that I have capital.

1016
00:46:41.020 --> 00:46:42.020
I can take capital.

1017
00:46:42.020 --> 00:46:45.220
I don't have to sacrifice time in order to get something for it.

1018
00:46:45.220 --> 00:46:47.540
So it's high input output.

1019
00:46:47.540 --> 00:46:49.140
Above that would be some sort of technology.

1020
00:46:49.140 --> 00:46:51.340
You build the code once in theory, obviously.

1021
00:46:51.340 --> 00:46:54.700
You continue to improve the code, but theoretically you build the thing once and then a million

1022
00:46:54.700 --> 00:46:55.980
people can use it.

1023
00:46:55.980 --> 00:47:01.380
And so you want to stack as many types of leverage as you can and as much of them as you can.

1024
00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:05.420
Because like Joe Rogan also has a show and somebody else has a podcast.

1025
00:47:05.420 --> 00:47:09.180
They both technically are using media as their vehicle for leverage.

1026
00:47:09.180 --> 00:47:10.740
He has significantly more of it.

1027
00:47:10.740 --> 00:47:13.740
So it's not just like, I'm going to use all these, right?

1028
00:47:13.740 --> 00:47:15.700
Yes, but it's also how much into what degree.

1029
00:47:15.700 --> 00:47:18.260
But like Facebook had other people's money.

1030
00:47:18.260 --> 00:47:22.340
He used media, had other people's work, max leverage, Amazon, same thing, right?

1031
00:47:22.340 --> 00:47:25.740
They used every element of leverage and they matched all of them out.

1032
00:47:25.740 --> 00:47:31.020
And that's at least the curtain that Naval talks about this view from Larry of Naval

1033
00:47:31.020 --> 00:47:32.020
Ravacant.

1034
00:47:32.020 --> 00:47:38.180
He talks about these things as the elements of leverage or four types of leverage.

1035
00:47:38.180 --> 00:47:42.980
And understanding that for me has kind of been a blueprint for wealth overall.

1036
00:47:42.980 --> 00:47:45.780
And then capital, there's degrees of capital, right?

1037
00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:47.940
Like you, first you can get friends and family to give you money.

1038
00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:53.260
Then you can get institutional money and then you can get public money, right?

1039
00:47:53.260 --> 00:47:57.300
Which, you know, you saw like the IPO money, like the fact that the NASDAQ was 4X, the

1040
00:47:57.300 --> 00:48:00.660
Ducel Dorf exchange somewhere it was, right?

1041
00:48:00.660 --> 00:48:02.940
There's just significantly more capital in that market.

1042
00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:06.420
And so it same work, more zeros.

1043
00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:10.980
And so I love this topic because I think that that's fundamentally like the people who

1044
00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:16.020
move faster in life don't actually move faster, they get more for every step.

1045
00:48:16.020 --> 00:48:19.220
Are you happy?

1046
00:48:19.220 --> 00:48:22.540
I'm stoked, max stoked.

1047
00:48:22.540 --> 00:48:26.460
You know, I'm not asking this question for a long time, but I thought I'd ask it because

1048
00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:29.500
it's kind of similar to what we've been talking about today.

1049
00:48:29.500 --> 00:48:36.180
But if happiness was like a list of ingredients and it was a recipe, is there anything

1050
00:48:36.180 --> 00:48:40.260
missing from your recipe that would make you even more happy?

1051
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:44.580
And sometimes that recipe is about balancing the ingredients, you need two eggs and 100

1052
00:48:44.580 --> 00:48:45.580
eggs.

1053
00:48:45.580 --> 00:48:46.580
Yeah.

1054
00:48:46.580 --> 00:48:47.580
One cup of flour.

1055
00:48:47.580 --> 00:48:48.580
Yeah.

1056
00:48:48.580 --> 00:48:50.980
For me, it's always been about autonomy.

1057
00:48:50.980 --> 00:48:55.060
I just want to be able to do what I find interesting.

1058
00:48:55.060 --> 00:48:57.380
And that's been the core of it.

1059
00:48:57.380 --> 00:49:04.380
And what I do will change, but the core of having the freedom to do it has been the center

1060
00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:05.380
of it.

1061
00:49:05.380 --> 00:49:09.180
And I don't think my freedom has, I mean, not in recent history, my freedom hasn't fundamentally

1062
00:49:09.180 --> 00:49:10.180
changed in any way.

1063
00:49:10.180 --> 00:49:15.820
And so I would say that I'm the same level of contentedness as I was last year.

1064
00:49:15.820 --> 00:49:19.260
But I find engagement in what I do.

1065
00:49:19.260 --> 00:49:24.300
And that's, that's, I'll give you my definition of happiness, which is doing what you like

1066
00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:29.020
to do with people you like and doing that as much as you possibly can.

1067
00:49:29.020 --> 00:49:34.020
And that's my simple definition.

1068
00:49:34.020 --> 00:49:40.260
I've tried to, I've tried to figure that out, that like professional, like, I guess it's

1069
00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:44.020
not even a professional thing, but I've tried to figure out and summarize, that's a wonderful

1070
00:49:44.020 --> 00:49:45.260
summary.

1071
00:49:45.260 --> 00:49:48.700
The place I've gotten to is if you're surrounded by people you love, you're doing something

1072
00:49:48.700 --> 00:49:52.460
that challenges you, which I think is an interesting one, you've kind of encapsulated

1073
00:49:52.460 --> 00:49:56.000
it just by saying things you like, but the challenge is you gives you a sense of forward

1074
00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:01.140
motion and progress towards a meaningful goal, and that's a subjective thing, could be

1075
00:50:01.140 --> 00:50:03.940
raising a kid or making a million dollars, whatever.

1076
00:50:03.940 --> 00:50:06.820
I think that's kind of what I call it my echo guy.

1077
00:50:06.820 --> 00:50:12.420
If I fight, if I'm in that state, and it's a state, I think I'm happy here.

1078
00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:15.660
We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the

1079
00:50:15.660 --> 00:50:16.660
next guest.

1080
00:50:16.660 --> 00:50:17.660
Oh.

1081
00:50:17.660 --> 00:50:23.260
Without knowing who they're going to be asking it to, I'm terrified.

1082
00:50:23.260 --> 00:50:26.620
Why does everyone get so scared when I do this?

1083
00:50:26.620 --> 00:50:27.940
Like, aren't my questions scary?

1084
00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:28.940
Like everyone.

1085
00:50:28.940 --> 00:50:33.660
Everyone's going to like, right, stick the neck, like, okay, I'm going to think of it.

1086
00:50:33.660 --> 00:50:37.340
What's going to get, we have these conversation cards where we've taken all the questions

1087
00:50:37.340 --> 00:50:41.340
written in this book and we've made them into cards so people can play at home.

1088
00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:44.660
I'm actually going to slide them over to you and just ask you to pick one conversation

1089
00:50:44.660 --> 00:50:45.660
card.

1090
00:50:45.660 --> 00:50:46.660
Okay.

1091
00:50:46.660 --> 00:50:53.140
I've picked a couple there that I think are stitch ups, so we go from middle, and the question

1092
00:50:53.220 --> 00:50:58.980
is, what are the failures you cherish the most?

1093
00:50:58.980 --> 00:51:04.060
I'm going to give two.

1094
00:51:04.060 --> 00:51:09.580
I am very grateful that I hated the job that I had because I think that I am the type

1095
00:51:09.580 --> 00:51:14.100
of person because of how hard it was for me to quit that if I had liked a job enough,

1096
00:51:14.100 --> 00:51:15.940
I don't think I would have left.

1097
00:51:15.940 --> 00:51:18.860
And I think I would have gone to the business going down the next thing.

1098
00:51:18.860 --> 00:51:23.900
Like if I had had a job worked for me, whatever it was that I enjoyed enough, just enough,

1099
00:51:23.900 --> 00:51:25.580
I might not be where I am now.

1100
00:51:25.580 --> 00:51:32.860
And I think that I cherish the fact that it was so miserable that it got me to change.

1101
00:51:32.860 --> 00:51:37.140
Like that, that job changed my life.

1102
00:51:37.140 --> 00:51:45.380
From a, like, sole perspective going through what I did with Leila, I cherish those times

1103
00:51:45.460 --> 00:51:50.860
because a lot of people live worse case scenario, years into their marriage, years into

1104
00:51:50.860 --> 00:51:54.580
their relationship, and then they kind of like see what the other person is made of.

1105
00:51:54.580 --> 00:51:57.540
I got to do that before I married the person.

1106
00:51:57.540 --> 00:52:00.060
And so there haven't been any surprises since then.

1107
00:52:00.060 --> 00:52:05.700
And it's something that's like shared misery to a certain degree, but like spiritual strength,

1108
00:52:05.700 --> 00:52:10.980
or spiritual, whatever you want to call it, I know she's got my back.

1109
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:13.740
And there's an element to that story that I didn't tell.

1110
00:52:13.740 --> 00:52:18.940
But when we really needed money at one point, I flew Leila out to do this launch.

1111
00:52:18.940 --> 00:52:20.740
I couldn't go with her.

1112
00:52:20.740 --> 00:52:24.740
And I actually, I don't want to say broke up with her, but I was like, I can't do this

1113
00:52:24.740 --> 00:52:26.300
right now.

1114
00:52:26.300 --> 00:52:30.260
And so for 28 days, we were not together.

1115
00:52:30.260 --> 00:52:37.540
And most girls, people would probably been like, screw this guy.

1116
00:52:37.540 --> 00:52:44.460
But instead, Leila set the all time record for a launch that still hasn't been broken.

1117
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:49.980
And when she came back, I was like, she stood tall when everything in my life was crumbling

1118
00:52:49.980 --> 00:52:50.980
around me.

1119
00:52:50.980 --> 00:52:52.780
And she made it happen.

1120
00:52:52.780 --> 00:52:56.020
And I knew that wherever I wanted a guy needed someone like that with me.

1121
00:52:56.020 --> 00:53:02.700
And so I cherish the failures of that entire season because there were many because I

1122
00:53:02.700 --> 00:53:05.900
wouldn't know what I have today.

1123
00:53:05.900 --> 00:53:10.860
If I hadn't been through those tests with her, then that's beautiful.

1124
00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:14.300
We have another question, which is the question that people leave in the book.

1125
00:53:14.300 --> 00:53:15.300
I just nailed it.

1126
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:16.300
I thought that was it.

1127
00:53:16.300 --> 00:53:17.300
This is the new tradition.

1128
00:53:17.300 --> 00:53:19.420
I'm talking about the old tradition.

1129
00:53:19.420 --> 00:53:25.620
One last question, Alex, but you did nail that, so I'll be honest, you stuck that landing.

1130
00:53:25.620 --> 00:53:29.940
When do you feel the most emotionally connected to yourself?

1131
00:53:29.940 --> 00:53:32.740
I think my heartbeat thought was when I'm working.

1132
00:53:32.740 --> 00:53:34.220
Like the first heartbeat thought.

1133
00:53:34.220 --> 00:53:39.980
And then if I had to be really specific, when I'm in the throes of writing.

1134
00:53:39.980 --> 00:53:43.660
I had a writing scholarship coming out of high school.

1135
00:53:43.660 --> 00:53:47.940
I was the vice editor of the newspaper, I was the editor in chief at the literary magazine

1136
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:48.940
when I was in high school.

1137
00:53:48.940 --> 00:53:51.420
I've enjoyed writing.

1138
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:55.500
It's one of those things that for me, you said challenge.

1139
00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:58.500
Writing is a monster that only gets stronger and stronger.

1140
00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:00.180
And you get better and better at writing.

1141
00:54:00.180 --> 00:54:03.660
And you see the flaws in your writing, the better you get at writing.

1142
00:54:03.660 --> 00:54:08.820
And so it always feels like it matches, the difficulty matches my ability at all times.

1143
00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:14.500
And so it is the thing that I experienced the greatest degree of flow in the most regularly.

1144
00:54:14.500 --> 00:54:16.500
Makes a lot of sense.

1145
00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:19.740
There's a lot of questions that we talked about earlier on as well.

1146
00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:22.420
Alex, thank you so much for your time and being here.

1147
00:54:22.420 --> 00:54:31.500
It's been an incredibly diverse and enlightening and honest and vulnerable and inspiring and

1148
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:33.900
soul-filling conversation and so many respects.

1149
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:37.740
And I know for sure you were just at the very start of your journey asked you about the

1150
00:54:37.740 --> 00:54:38.740
staircase.

1151
00:54:38.740 --> 00:54:41.980
I know that you've just got one foot on the first step and I think it's going to be incredible

1152
00:54:41.980 --> 00:54:46.340
to watch the next couple of seasons of your life because you're destined for incredible

1153
00:54:46.340 --> 00:54:47.340
things.

1154
00:54:47.340 --> 00:54:48.340
There's absolutely no doubt in that.

1155
00:54:48.340 --> 00:54:49.340
So thank you, Alex.

1156
00:54:49.340 --> 00:54:50.340
Appreciate your time.

1157
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:51.340
I appreciate it.