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Welcome back to the game. This is a throwback app. Last year after our $100 million leads launched,

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the top 10 affiliates had 10 hours to ask me questions about their businesses and do it for

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their audiences. And my team went through that whole period and compressed it down to the

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absolute best moments. Enjoy. Let's say my only goal was just to get rich AF. What is rich AF

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just to be to find it? 100 million. One. It's a good number. You're willing to work hard. But

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you have limited skills and experience. What business would you start? Like right now, 2023.

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And I have no money, right? I would probably build a boring business in services. And I would probably

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pick something around the body. You know, I wouldn't just start a design firm because I think that

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has a high likelihood of getting disrupted or you know, in some way by AI. If I were, you know,

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it's as silly as it sounds like a nail salon or a lawn care service, things that I mean,

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especially body ones, dentists stuff like you still have to go in and get your teeth taken care of.

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And many times people value the human exchange more than something robotics. So for example,

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in the fitness world, like this is my like my data point around this, there was a brand called

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Coco Fit and they struggled a ton and then eventually went out of business because they tried

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to automate personal training. So they created these all in one machines that would you'd have a

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key fob and it would count your reps. And every time you went to the machine, it would say how to do

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more and what way you did last time. It's really cool concept. The problem was their theory was that

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the reason that people were getting results is that they didn't know what to do when the realities

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that no one was showing with the gym. People hire personal trainers because they want another human

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to talk to and to hold them accountable showing up. Same reason like if you had a robot cutting hair,

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there might be a percentage of the population to do it. But a lot of women like the going to the

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hair salon and having that exchange. And so I would probably build a business around services in

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general would be my way. And then I would continue to scale that. And you could do that at a local

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chain level and you can make a lot of money do that or you could do it at a national level which

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would be like professional services. I love the idea behind the course stuff that's going to be

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here forever. You know, let's say I could vertically the great fires of Las Vegas burn everything

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to the ground. Okay, you lost everything you had to start again. What would you say is the number one

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thing that you would have done differently to get to where you are now? And I have no reputation,

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right? No reputation. Yeah, it burns my reputation on the ground with it. So I actually have lost

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everything before. And so I know what I did and I probably would have done the same thing. So the

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easiest way that I did to like go make a hundred grand in a month when I had nothing was that I would

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go find a business that was local that I understood and that I could sell something expensive for.

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I would front the capital to market. I would work the leads and I would sit at the front desk and

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sell and I would negotiate what they would be willing to do a big bulk of services at scale for.

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So for example, if I wanted to find a car tractor and I'd say, hey, if I sent you a hundred

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customers this month, what's the lowest rate you would do all hundred customers for this level

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of service? And then I would just negotiate that down and then I would spend as much as I could

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and sell it for as much as I can so I can make the spread and then they would service the customers.

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And for them, it's a zero risk offer because they don't have to do anything. I front everything

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else. And then for me, I don't have to do anything but market and sell and I can take all of that.

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And so like when I lost everything, I immediately was able to make a hundred grand the next month

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by doing that playbook. In your opinion, what are the three most powerful skills that someone should

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develop if they want to make a lot of money? I mean, the three core skills, are you going to learn

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how to build? You got to learn how to sell and you got to learn how to lead just like that?

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There we are. Like in terms of maybe like hard skills that someone should really focus on learning

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to develop that like sales, copywriting, leadership, what would you say the most important?

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Well, those are the three big buckets, right? So it's like one is that like leadership is just

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the internal bucket of getting people to do what you want them to do at scale, right? And then

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from a selling perspective, I include that in all things that are marketing, letting people know

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about your stuff, promotion, and actually converting people into customers. And then the third

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piece of building product and services is so that at scale, if the product is good enough,

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then you won't lose customers. And if it's exceptional, the product itself will get you more

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customers. And so most businesses taking to their natural extreme on a promotional level,

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typically are leaky buckets because the product actually sucks. And most businesses suck in general

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because most products aren't good and most people want to cancel very quickly and don't want to

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continue to use them, which is why very, very good companies are very rare. Most of them generally

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are mediocre or not good. And so I prefer to solve a business from back to front, which is like,

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can we find something that people actually like and want to continue to use and continue to pay for?

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And then the marketing is almost a commoditized skill. Like it's very easy to let other people know

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about your stuff and do so louder and louder and louder, provided the product is good. And then

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the internal has to get run with a leader that can attract the talent to continue to do this.

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Because quickly the business will bottleneck based on the founder and their expertise,

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or usually they have a niche that might be product people, they might be tech people,

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they might be finance people, they might be whatever. And then they have to be of the character

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to attract the talent that will allow them to get to nine figures or whatever it is that they're

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the goal is. You mentioned on a recent podcast with Tom Billy that you don't have rules.

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So I, for example, you know, I quite often end up working up until midnight,

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2 a.m. 3 a.m. and basically fucking up my sleep schedule because I have too much freedom,

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right, because I'm self employed. So how do you kind of strike that balance between freedom

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and discipline, you know, if you're driven and you want to accomplish big things?

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It's it's it's kind of 80 20. Like if you know that when you stay up late, like there are times when

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I will gas it and go past my red line in terms of work. And I know that I'm eating into tomorrow.

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But if I'm like in a flow and I'm crushing it and the muse shows up and the muse wants to work,

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then I work. You know what I mean? But if there's some days on the flip side where I wake up and I

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just feel foggy as shit and I just like for whatever reason, I ate too much maxing last night.

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And my you know, I just I don't have it that day. Then I might call it earlier. Like the idea of

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me pushing through and punishing when it comes to the type of work I do. If I were doing a more

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brute force work, then I would care less. You know what I mean? If it was just like if I was

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doing reach outs, I was doing cold calls, I was training personal training sessions. I was cut in

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hair. I'm just get I'm just going to brute force my way through it because I don't need to have

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higher brain function. And that's not an insult. I'm just saying like you're not like thinking of

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creative things. You know what I mean? You're just you're working the work. But when it comes to

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like writing or or making presentations or communication of some sort, it's more I try and optimize

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around how can I maximize over a week? How much flow state I can be in so I can just get the

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most total quality output. So it's not about rules. It's more like which of these things as a

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highest likelihood of getting me the most. What's up, Kristoff? In one podcast, you said that your

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most feared decision in life was to quit your job when you were trying to do or trying to

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free. My question is what advice would you give to your younger self if you could in that exact

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situation? When you have nothing to lose, it also makes it the best time to make high-risk

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decisions because you have a disproportionate upside. Not quitting if you want to do something

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else like if you have this desire to do something else is like not taking a stranger up on a

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free lottery ticket on the street. If they give you a free lottery ticket and you lose, you're back

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to not having anything. If you win, then your life changes forever. And so I think a lot of people

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place a disproportionate amount of weight on the opinions of other people who are going to judge

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them in the short term because quitting your job is short-term pain for long-term fulfillment.

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If that's what you want to pursue, because the short-term pain comes from the judgment of others

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and likely a back step in income, but long-term, you're working on a thing that you want to be working

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on. Now, if you like your job, and that probably doesn't apply to those people, but if you're in

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that situation, it's really a long-term short-term sacrifice which a lot of people aren't able to make.

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The second question, let's think that my audience don't know anything about Laela except that she's

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your partner. But I think she has exceptional knowledge and she's a really good personality.

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If you could only tell one story about her that makes a complete picture about her, what would it be?

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So, Laela had quit her job to join me to start Jim Launch. This is when we were doing turn-around,

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so we're flying around the country. So, she quit her job after knowing me for only a month and then

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started basically living with me in motel rooms. She had built up a book of business, so she was

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actually giving up something that she had spent two years building to pursue this thing with me.

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We were new. We had just started dating. About six months into that, I told her that I needed a break.

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She actually asked me if she was like, it sounds like you don't really want me to be here,

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do you want me to leave? And I was like, yes, that would be great. I had just lost all the money from

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the partner. I had this location that I had to either shut down and had no cash to do it.

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I had to service all these contracts that didn't have the money to service. I also had three

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other businesses that I was trying to run at the same time at a car practice agency. I had

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my gyms. I had Jim launch the turn-around business. I had a dental agency, all of those with

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different partners. I was the one who did marketing sales for all of it. So, I was just so spread

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then. So, I needed to generate money to basically pay the bills of the gym that the money had just

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gone out the door for. Right after me saying, I don't think we should be together, she had to leave

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the next day to go to Hawaii to launch a gym for this guy that she's no longer dating,

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that she quit everything to leave. Tough situation that 9 out of 9, 99 out of 100 girls would have

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just said no. They would have been like, I'm just going to go back home and try and get all my

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clients back. But she didn't do that. So, she flew out to Hawaii. I didn't have enough money to

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give her a nice place. And so, I had her split in Airbnb with five guys, five dudes in Laila.

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Not ideal. And so, she worked out of the Airbnb and well, realistically she worked out of the gym

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most of the time and did the biggest launch that we'd ever done. And so, like when my world was crumbling

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around me and I really needed her to come through, she stood tall. And she did it in a time that I

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probably didn't deserve that level of loyalty because I hadn't shown her any. And so, she did that.

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And then I made enough money from her launching that gym that I could pay off all the bills of the

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gym that was going under that I just lost all the money on to basically come out breaking even

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so that we could actually go back all in on gym launch and get rid of the other companies.

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Oh, man. I think I haven't heard this story before.

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What's been through your mind? I can't really believe this and understand it.

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Well, when she did that, I wanted to be with her. She had extended me loyalty that I had not given her.

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There was probably a few defining moments in our relationship. That was the first big one.

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Thank you very much for sharing this. The next one is kind of basic question, but I'm really curious

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about the answer. What was your biggest takeaway of writing 100 million offers and also 100 million

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leads? The offer is just a strategic question that influences all aspects of the business and is

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also a mental exercise that people can feel like they're making progress on their offer a lot

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faster. Leads is a lot more about activity and implementation. And so, people can get ideas from

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like the lead magnet chapter, but then you have to start reaching out to people posting content or

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running ads to start getting leads in the door. And so, there's a little bit bigger of a hurdle

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with leads than there is offers, but it's also the main driver of business is letting people

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know about your stuff. And so, I think that many people will mentally masturbate to the idea of

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making these amazing offers, but I think farmers will make money by actually letting people know

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about their stuff, which is leads. What went through your mind when you rewrote it for the 18th or

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19th time. So, unless I can work once and have something provide value on an ongoing basis,

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which is a high leverage activity, then it makes no sense. So, I think most people shouldn't write

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books because the amount of work it takes to make a great book that actually lasts this after time

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is extremely difficult. I think I read a blog post where they said how to write a blogbuster

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blog post and there was a chart where they said if you put in like a hundred hours to write

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only one blog post, there maybe will be a million views. But if you put like 50 hours, there

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maybe will be just 10,000 views. It's exactly that. There's diminishing marginal return,

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but an increase in exponential increase in absolute returns. The gold metal sprinter in the Olympics

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versus the silver medalist. From a business context, the person who's at the gold medalist

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might have worked 10 times more to get this much more out. But what's the difference in absolute

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of gold versus silver? Everything. Just being this much better, people are like, well, I don't want

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to work 50 more hours to be this much better. But being this much better might make you the best

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at that, whatever the blog post is or that business or that solution. And the amount of

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winner takes all the economy has shifted towards. People want the lowest-grish solution. And so,

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if you have the best solution, then it is the lowest risk thing to buy. And so, to be number one,

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versus number two, 80% of the economics, sometimes 90% of the economics go to number one. And so,

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it makes absolute sense to work 10 times harder, even though you might only be this much better

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from a marginal perspective on the chart of rankings that might make you 10 times higher.

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Some context. We have like a book summary application where we give also exercises and deep

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to implement the book. What's your average take on books and book summaries? Is it good? Did you

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use them before? I don't read many book summaries. Mostly because you rely on the person who's

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doing the summarizing to find what they think is the most viable thing for you. Because a lot of

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times what I find if I read a book, the nuggets that I find are not the main concepts. It's actually

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the details. If you don't know anything about a topic, then the summaries are great to give you

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a lot of sort of framework to understand the rest of the information that you're getting consumed.

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But once you have a basic understanding, it's in the edges, which is where you can expand your

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knowledge. There's not a lot of shortcuts to getting really good at something. Now a bit of

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selfish question, but I'm really curious about the thing. Yeah. Okay, so you remember you had a

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video where you scaled a no-stripe business to 50 million in six minutes. Could you do this

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with the book summary app? Basically do a breakdown of a book summaries. So it's an application.

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Yeah, it's a subscription based application. Yeah. Got it. What's the price point? $10. Okay,

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what's what's turn? I think $15 to $20. Monthly or yearly?

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Monthly. Monthly. Got it. So you have to fix that first. At the end of the day, everything's

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going to be cactl TV. So if there was one single metric that I'm going to look at a business,

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it's cactl TV ratio. So how much it cost to me to get somebody and how much I make from them

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over the lifetime. Until that metric is better than the competition. So like blinkest,

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right? I think that's a one that's like that. I would have to look at their LTV. And what are

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the things that they're doing that like why am I why are going to people going to come to me

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versus them? Right. So either I have to be more niche in my selection of books so that I'll have

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a wider selection for a narrower audience like competing against Amazon's very tough. But if you

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if you if you niche down into a specific topic, then you can actually have a wider selection

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because blinkest is just going to take the best sellers, right? For every every category.

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Because that's going to be the most people and their VC backed and their fund and they can

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acquire customers that are lost for a long period of time acquire market share. And unless that's

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the game you're trying to play, then you have to play different, which is I want to I want to be

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really specific about the ad avatar that want to go after. And so that's where you do a little

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bit of research ahead of time and say, okay, is there an underserved market that might actually

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a have a big reading preference? So like salespeople is one of the most common professions on

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planeter from a personality perspective. How many sales guys read all the time? I don't know.

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I would have to I would have to look into that. And so you might be like, okay, well sales

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guys aren't the guy, but maybe HR specialist read a ton. Okay. Well, if they read a ton and there's

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like Blinkist might have one book on HR, but I can put a hundred different things that are

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related to that or one degree separated. And then I can create the illusion of a wider selection of

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topics, but around a narrower narrower avatar or concept, right? I would start there and then over time

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you can expand if you if you want to and just reach, you know, you go adjacent, you go to finance,

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you go to whatever, like this is me just spitballing again, like I did the no-strip thing. From the

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economics perspective, you have to get LTV to the point where like your church should be under 3%

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in order to make this really work. Once it's under 3% monthly, yeah, monthly. I mean,

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ideally you want to maintain 80% annually at least. If you want this thing to be a big thing,

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all of my attention would be only focused on that. Like until you fix that, there's no point in

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acquiring customers because there's going to fall out the back end. Like there's literally no point

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because then you're also getting lots of people in that will then say that that thing sucks.

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You know what I mean? Am I saying it sucks? I'm just saying like they're a friend of theirs is going

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to say, hey, I signed up for this thing and they're going to be like, oh, I tried. I didn't like it.

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And then they're like, oh, okay, maybe I won't, I won't stick on it. I want to be so quiet about

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what I'm building until all my metrics are right. And then I want to blow the doors off. But most

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people want to keep hitting these income goals rather than looking at the metrics of the business

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that are actually going to drive the long-term goal. Because like anyone can market their way

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to a hundred thousand or a million a month, even with an app like this. If you blow enough money,

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enough people find out about you can do it. But then you can only maintain it as long as you're

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spending that much money. The moment you spend drops, your income drops. And that's not a business

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that I want to be a part of. Our USB is that we are doing, we are, we are in Hungary and we are

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doing it in Hungarian. And there is no other application in Hungary. Okay, that's great. If we scale

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to maybe Poland, we would do it in Polish and nothing English. And that's a USB. I like that.

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And I mean, then at that point, I would just look at, I tried and model as closely as I possibly can,

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the number one player in the US from a UX perspective, from the selection of titles,

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all that kind of stuff. And then I would, and I would see if my metrics change if I do that. If not,

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then it's like, there's some assumption that I'm basing this business off of that's not right.

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In the Denny Miranda, both guests, I think, you told me about skills versus meta skills. Could you

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expand this maybe? A meta skill is a skill that helps you acquire more skills. Learning how to read

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is a meta skill. Like learning how to learn is a meta skill. With the broadest brushstroke,

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all the way chunked up, learning to learn well quickly and retain information and be able to

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implement it is a skill. You give 100 people a course that's free. The difference between the

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people who are going to be successful and not successful are the ones who already have sufficient

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meta skills to be able to then use the information and implement it. Like at one polar extreme,

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you've got somebody who's completely incompetent, who you have to teach them how to turn on a

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computer. And on the other extreme, I can say, go build me a company. And the person can do it.

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So this person can translate a directive into each of the sub buckets and knows how to do that.

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And so it's really like your success percentage basically is predetermined by how low you break down

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the skill requirements for someone to be successful. So like the reason that I write the books

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at the grade level that I do isn't so that people who are experts don't get value from it. It's so

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that it makes it even easier for experts. And it makes it attainable for people who don't know.

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So I can get 70% of people who read the book to get leads versus 10% of people to get leads. If I

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just cut out some of the steps and made assumptions about their skill level, the last 10 or 20%

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the people who are experts are still going to benefit from. I'm just also going to include turn

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on your computer. Here's how you do that. And from the software perspective with what you're doing,

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that's also how you get a way larger percentage of your clients to activate. Typically,

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we make assumptions because we assume that every customer is just like us. And so they've the same

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meta skills as us and they have the same interpretation or perception of the world and the UX. And so

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that assumption isn't true. Like all you have to do is, and I'm sure you've done this,

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like you look at people scrolling on your app and you see the heat maps and you're like, why are they

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clicking that button? Because they have different skills and experiences that they're bringing to

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the table. And so then we just continue to accommodate it, break it down to the level that you could

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show it to a three-year-old and they would immediately know how to use it. Like the fact that babies

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learn how to use iPods is an indication of how simple they have made it to humans to use. And

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that's why they have such massive option. How will you teach someone how to learn? We already

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know how to learn. It's just that most people don't know how to teach. Everybody learns stuff all

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the time, right? If you touch a stove and it's hot and it burns you, you learn not to do it again.

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Like learning is natural, like we all learn. But people who want to teach a specific

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behavior don't know how to do it. And so it really just comes down to three things, which is,

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what do I reward? What do I punish? And what do I extinguish? Right? So reward is you give a

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carrot right after someone does something, punishes you, you know, you zap them or you smack them

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after they do something or extinguishes you do nothing. Right? So if your wife walks in and she

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got her nails painted neon orange and you don't like it, you might not want to punish her because

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that's probably going to have negative ramifications in the rest of your life. But you might extinguish it.

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So you might not say anything about the nails or you might say something different. She's like,

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do you like my nails? I might save something back like I'm happy that you got what you want. What

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we're doing is what behavior are we training? And so if you think about learning or teaching as

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training, I think it's a much more useful word to think through because at the end of the day,

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you have only taught someone if their behavior changes in the same context. As in, if I want you to

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say these words when the phone rings, if I say, cool, we're going to put you through this training

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and then the phone rings and then you don't say the words, you have not learned. And I have not

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taught you. And so it's how many times can I simulate this experience, this stimulus, the context,

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so that I can have them do the behavior I want within the context that's going to trigger it and

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then reward them immediately. And that's how you have a feedback loop that trains people to do

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something. So that is why there's tricks in the application and the gamification and those stuff.

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How would you restructure the education system if you could? Oh, yeah, sorry for this question.

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No, you're good. You're good. I would focus almost exclusively on metascales teaching people how to

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learn step one and then teaching people the things that are the next level underneath, which is

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learning how to write, learning how to read, learning how to speak, learning how to do math.

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Like those are the building blocks of everything else that follows. And in the school of the school

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of Alex or the school of Formosi, everyone passes only when you learn. There are only 100%

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and you continue to do it until you learn. Like the arbitrary division of grades along age is

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ridiculous to me. And I think that if there were a lot more clarity around the goal, which is like

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until you can read 10 pages out loud without making a mistake, you do not move on. If you can do that

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in a day, fantastic. If it takes you a year, okay, I don't judge you on that. It's just how long will

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it take you to learn the skill? So a good buddy of mine, Dr. Cashy taught an autistic kid how to read.

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He couldn't stay still reading for more than one word at a time and then he would like have fits

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or whatever. And so he came to train the child on how to read with a bag of skittles. And so when the

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kid would read a word, he would give them a skittle. When he would read more words in a row than he

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ever had, like a record, he would give them two skittles. So he rewarded the behavior and then he

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had big bonus rewards when he would unlock a new level. And so he kept doing that. And within one

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afternoon, he had him reading a full page. What is the behavior that I want to reward? How can I

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reward more of it? Now, none of it was punishing. He didn't smack him when he messed up. When he

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read less, he still gave him one to reward him for the activity. And then when he read more, he'd

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give him extra reward. As the kid becomes less full on skittles and he's like, you know, sugar,

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he like doesn't want any skills anymore, the skittles become a proxy for approval. And they work

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just the same. How do you know that when to when to punish, when to reward or when to extinguish?

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We try very hard to almost exclusively reward because punishment changes behavior faster.

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Reward changes behavior longer. It just takes longer to work, right? Like if if someone,

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you know, calls me Alex and I don't like that and I slap them and I say never call me that again,

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I might change their behavior really quickly. If I leave the room and someone else says,

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I walks in, they might say I was talking to Alex because I'm not there to punish them.

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And so punishment only works as long as the the source of punishment is there and the person

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doesn't get accustomed to the punishment because punishment itself becomes desensitized over time.

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And so to effectively punish someone if you want to consistently punish, then you have to increase

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the intensity and variety of punishment over time because otherwise people get desensitized to it.

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If you're always mean and yell at all of your employees, eventually they stop caring.

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So you have to increase the level of your threats, right? You then have to say I'm going to

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fire you. I'm going to kill you, right? You have to make these threats increase because you

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create the increase the intensity and the variety of how you claim to punish them. Reward, you can

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reward long enough that you can then extend the gaps between reward to eventually you don't need

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a reward anymore and people will continue to do the activity because they have always done it.

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So it's the exact example with Dr. Keshe and the guy.

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Yeah, I would imagine if he was doing this over and over again, he proved the point,

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I don't know, he's not like a full-time reading teacher. The concept is that he would read,

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and then maybe the next time he comes in, he gives him a skill every other time he reads.

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And the next time I'm by every third time, and the next time I be only when he hits a new record,

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if I can get the kid to read long enough that he actually starts to like the story,

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then the story starts rewarded in and of itself and then I can move away and then the kid reads.

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Without me. And so fundamentally, that's what you try to do when you train any activity is that

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most people who are experts at anything get rewarded from the activity itself because once you develop

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a level of mastery and the skill, you enjoy it because you're good at it. So we hope I hope we

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will meet again and maybe speak longer. Thank you very much.

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Dude, I appreciate you, Kristoff. Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting your community and hopefully

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your community got value from the event and hopefully they use the books and grow the economy and

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hungry and and all get, you know, way way better at whatever it is they're doing.

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You are incredibly committed to education and self improvement. How do you select what you will

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pursue for education? There's so many possible topics. So what process do you go through to select

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what you're going to be educating yourself on and how do you also select potentially someone to

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educate you on that topic? We do everything off the theory of constraints that happens just not

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calm, which is basically that a system will grow until it's constrained until its limit. So it's

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kind of like the idea of the the weakest link, right? So it's finding what the weakest link in the

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chain is where the constraint of the system is so that we can deconstrain it and then grow to the

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next natural constraint. It's a very simplistic look, but it's extremely effective because it just

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cuts down all the noise until like if I had to pick one thing that's the big limitation of this

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business, what would it be? And so then we just get laser laser focused on solving that one problem,

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solve that problem, and then we move on to the next constraint. And if we solve their problem and

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the business doesn't grow, then we pick the wrong constraint. And so sometimes the constraint is

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your ability to judge what the constraint is, which is why wisdom is one of the hardest things

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to earn, which comes from experience, right? Is that you're able to recognize patterns.

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And so for me right now to answer the other part of the question, what I'm focused on learning

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about brand stuff right now. So brand is my big topic that I've been diving really deep on. Brand

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and media, and I'll probably write a book on brand just from the findings that I have because I

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don't think there's many good books on brand because you can I could read you 20 different

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definitions of brand and branding and they all sound like cockamani. And so coming up with an

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operationalized version of what that means so that it can actually be useful. And I try to learn

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the stuff so that I can use it. And then whatever I learn, I just, you know, pass it forward. Because

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branding for me, despite being now quote known for this or like an organic content guy, I've only

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been doing this two years. Like this is brand new to me. Like I, you know, I've way more experience

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on the paid outside. That's what I did the last decade. And I, you know, people got to see a tiny

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taste of that when I was launching the book. But that's, that's the big thing is finding out with

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the constraint of the businesses. And if you need to chunk all the way up, it's, if you want to grow

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business, you have to sell more clients or make them worth more or decrease risk. Those are the,

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those are the things that are going to grow the value of a company. And so just simply asking the

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question, like, why do we not have 10 times more customers or why we're not making 10 times more

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money? And then figuring out what the answer to that question is oftentimes is the constraint.

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Just because you're saying, Hey, I'm currently educating myself on on branding and that's fresh

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for you. What would you say is like a major takeaway in terms of education for the topic of

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branding that you're just like, I wish I would have maybe known this when I started to try to learn

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about this two years ago. This is like a Pandora's box. If I start talking about it, it might be like

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10 minutes. So I can, I can riff on it, but like Buckling the audience. So if we look at the origins

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of what a brand is, right? Where do brands come from? Brand comes from your brand cattle,

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right? That was the original use of a brand. And so why would you brand cattle? Because you want

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to change the behavior of people who look at the cattle. So if you have a cattle that doesn't have

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a brand and the cattle that does, the people who are looking at it will behave differently. If the

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cow, the cow doesn't have a brand, I might take the cow for myself or I might kill it or I might

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eat it. I might do whatever. But if the cow has a brand on it and I know the guy, I might return

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the cow to him, right? So it changes what I do, all right? That's an important point. So the point

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of a brand is to change or elicit a desired behavior in the widest percentage of your target audience.

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All right. Now, how do you do that? You do that by making associations between something they don't

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know your brand in the beginning with something that they do know that is positive and rewarding.

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If that's what you want, right? And so the index is a four by four box of what brand really is.

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You have the direction. So you've got a way from and towards and then you've got strength.

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So very high and very low. So you know, if you have a really weak thing that's a way from,

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it's like, I kind of don't like this thing, you know, slow Wi-Fi. You know, they're like,

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bad brand. On the flip side, you might have a political party, which depending on the audience,

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might be super strong and a way from or towards. Now Taylor Swift, for example, would be some of

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that I would say has a very strong brand and towards. There's not a lot of people who really hate

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Taylor Swift. And a lot of people who really love Taylor Swift, right? So it's positive and it's

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strong, right? Somebody like Ray Romano, if you heard that, you know, they're like Tim Allen from

375
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the old sitcom days, might be someone who is positive, but weak. A lot of people know who he is.

376
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:46.720
Am I going to show up to his event? Probably not. The idea is that in order to build a brand,

377
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:51.280
we simply pair things that people know, things that they don't know, the things they don't know is

378
00:29:51.280 --> 00:29:56.400
our logo, our tagline, our company, with things that they do know and think are positive. If you were

379
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:03.360
to think about the brand as a bouquet of flowers, it's like having many flowers in a bouquet. And so

380
00:30:03.360 --> 00:30:07.440
if I were to break the bouquet and spread all the flowers, there is no bouquet. But simply by

381
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:13.680
gathering together, by making associations, I create something new. And that bundle of associations

382
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:17.840
is the brand. Now, if I were to break one of the flowers or make it rotten, it would affect the

383
00:30:17.840 --> 00:30:22.720
appearance of the entire brand. And so that's why if you make a single mistake, a Dylan Mulvaney

384
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:28.960
move for Bud Light, you can affect the entire brand. If I get a DUI, or somebody you know gets,

385
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:33.840
you know, accused of doing some sort of terrible heinous act, right? It affects the entire brand.

386
00:30:33.840 --> 00:30:39.360
Arkelly, bad brand now, right? Despite all of the positive, the one broken rose or the one

387
00:30:39.360 --> 00:30:44.080
rotten flower affects the entire bouquet. We have to be very deliberate about what associations we

388
00:30:44.080 --> 00:30:49.600
want to make with our own brand so that we can continue to positively associate ourselves. And the

389
00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:55.840
point of the brand is that we get a desired action or behavior from a specific audience.

390
00:30:55.840 --> 00:31:00.400
The idea of growing the brand a lot of times is that you sacrifice some audience for other audiences.

391
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:04.880
So like when I was starting making content, I did it in my closet, right? And there were some hard

392
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:10.480
core people in the OG Mozimedia days that are like, I appreciate you, that were like, man, I miss

393
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:15.440
the closet videos, right? Now, I might have lost some of those people when we started making a

394
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:20.000
little bit more polished videos, etc. Some people, not all, right? I traded some, I traded losing

395
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:25.200
some audience to gain more. When you're making a brand move, you're basically always making a bet

396
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:31.680
that you will gain more of your desired audience than you lose by making a change. And so you can

397
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:36.480
approximate or slowly move a brand over time by making more associations in one direction and

398
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:41.360
fewer associations in the other. And so that's how you can move a brand over time. But light made

399
00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:46.800
a wrong bet. They thought, and maybe this is just a corporate group thing, right? That if they made

400
00:31:46.800 --> 00:31:51.600
an association to El Mavini, that they were going to get more people to buy their beer. That,

401
00:31:51.600 --> 00:31:54.160
I mean, fundamentally, that's the only reason you would do it as a company, right? You'd believe

402
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:59.280
that long time you get more people to buy your beer. The problem was that wasn't true. Now,

403
00:31:59.280 --> 00:32:03.520
the interesting thing is that there probably are people who were a big fan of that move. It's just

404
00:32:03.520 --> 00:32:07.360
that there were more people who weren't. They were far away. Right. There were more people who

405
00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:12.640
were not a fan of that move. And so that became an away from association. And so that is what I am

406
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:19.600
trying to encapsulate and put together into how to brand. Because now that I feel like I understand

407
00:32:19.600 --> 00:32:24.960
it a little bit, I see it as in my opinion, you know, it's kind of like Neo in the Matrix when

408
00:32:25.760 --> 00:32:30.480
he's talking to Morpheus and he says, so you're telling me that I can dodge bullets. Morpheus says,

409
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:35.680
well, when you're ready, you won't have to. And so we learn all these tactics about sales and

410
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:41.120
marketing and show up rates and CRO hacks and all this shit. But if you have a brand, if you see

411
00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:46.880
the Matrix, everyone shows up to your calls. No one has price objections. Everyone is excited

412
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:51.920
and refers to their friends. It just takes longer to make associations because fundamentally,

413
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:57.920
all branding is is teaching. You were teaching someone to do something. You want them to behave

414
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:03.040
a certain way. And you have this red, red card. And when you see red, it means stop. That's all

415
00:33:03.040 --> 00:33:07.680
we're doing. So green lights have strong associate strong brands. They're positive. Everyone loves

416
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:12.320
green lights, right? Like it's a simple thing. Just know and owns it. But green lights are a great

417
00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:17.120
positive association. It's a great brand, right? And so that's that's the idea of what I'm what I'm

418
00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:21.280
kind of diving more into. And I see it as the ultimate cheat code for business. It just takes

419
00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:26.480
long time to do. And most people are patient. You're telling me I can dodge business problems.

420
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:30.160
I'm telling you that once you have a brand, they become irrelevant.

421
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:38.400
You talk about deleting problems as your favorite way of solving them. How do you decide what's

422
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:44.880
deleteable versus what's not? Because I can imagine the person who really loves that strategy

423
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:49.760
doing nothing and just deleting all problems. So how do you prioritize a problem worth solving

424
00:33:49.760 --> 00:33:53.840
versus a problem that is deleteable? Well, it's just percentage likelihood of impact.

425
00:33:53.840 --> 00:33:59.120
Chunking all the way up to like, will this cost me a number of sales like sales velocity?

426
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.680
Will this decrease the lifetime value of customers? And will this increase your decrease the

427
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:07.120
likely that this that whatever I'm doing right now continues to occur? So we're trying to value a

428
00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:10.800
company, right? We look at what's the sales velocity? How many customers they sell? What's the

429
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.840
lifetime value of every customer? Because then you can extrapolate what their run rate is going to be

430
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:19.040
at at scale at max unless we change something. And then you divide that by risk, which is how likely

431
00:34:19.120 --> 00:34:23.760
is it that there's going to be an outside event that's going to change this thing from continuing

432
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:28.080
to occur, this box of making money, how likely is that they will continue to grow or at least

433
00:34:28.080 --> 00:34:32.800
stay the same. And so if I have a problem, I have to be able to track it back to one of those

434
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.320
three things. And if it doesn't really track one of those three things or there's another problem

435
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:41.120
that has a much higher likelihood impact in terms of it's higher likely and it has a greater effect

436
00:34:41.120 --> 00:34:45.200
size, then I'm going to prioritize that. It's just that oftentimes if someone's like, man,

437
00:34:45.200 --> 00:34:48.480
I really think we should change the colors on the site. I would just say like, what's the

438
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.200
likelihood? Like I have been notorious for having ugliest shit sites my entire career. And you can

439
00:34:53.200 --> 00:34:57.440
make branding, make associations and I think there's there's an argument there. But what's the

440
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:01.680
likelihood that it's going to affect how many companies do a deal with us? It hasn't up to this

441
00:35:01.680 --> 00:35:07.360
point. And so is it a constraint of the business? No. Is it something that I could improve? Absolutely.

442
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.720
There's also a hundred other things I could improve. I could also send more emails, which I don't do.

443
00:35:10.720 --> 00:35:15.120
Like there's lots of things I could do. But what are the few things or the one thing that matters

444
00:35:15.120 --> 00:35:19.440
most, which then ladders back up to what is the constraint of the business? If I look at the highest

445
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:25.840
price competitor in my market and I won up them and then they won up me potentially, like is there ever

446
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:31.200
a point in which we just say like, we're price premium enough or do we always have to go for the top?

447
00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:36.080
Like how do you make the determination of premium? There's basically four positions in the market.

448
00:35:36.160 --> 00:35:40.960
You have luxury all the way at the top, which is technically a vebbling good, which means

449
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:46.640
when I increase the price demand goes up. And that's because there's an association with the price

450
00:35:46.640 --> 00:35:51.120
that makes it more valuable. So the fact that everyone knows how expensive it is affects the value

451
00:35:51.120 --> 00:35:55.600
that I get that I get from it. The fact that everyone knows the Rolex is a hundred grand, the one

452
00:35:55.600 --> 00:36:00.080
that I'm wearing, whatever, then I actually make it makes the Rolex more valuable. So it becomes

453
00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:03.920
a virtuous cycle, which is why LVMH is one of those valuable companies in the world. Then you have

454
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:09.440
premium, which is basically the above average. So it's there you have to pair utility with the

455
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:19.040
premium. In luxury, the extra price tag is the value. Whereas with premium, like BMW is premium.

456
00:36:19.040 --> 00:36:23.760
They're not luxury. They're a little bit better at a lot of stuff and see you pay a premium because

457
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:27.600
it is a little bit. They use a better materials, it breaks less, whatever, right? And so then you have

458
00:36:27.600 --> 00:36:31.920
your, you know, your mid to your run of the mill, your commoditized space, which sucks. And then you

459
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:37.760
have your low cost leaders, which they make their entire business on how can I drive efficiencies in

460
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:43.360
operations at all levels of the business so that I can be the lowest priced person in the marketplace,

461
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:49.120
right? And still make a profit to route to your question of like when is enough enough? The key

462
00:36:49.120 --> 00:36:54.000
indicator for me and most of this like that, that quote, higher ticket world, you're not luxury goods.

463
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:58.480
The fact that it's expensive is not the reason that people want to buy it, right? It's so it's

464
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:02.880
actually technically a premium. I'm more extremely about the price to value discrepancy than anything

465
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:08.640
else. And a lot of people get into trouble because they raise the price so much that it is,

466
00:37:08.640 --> 00:37:12.960
it's just an excess of the value they provide. And so then they actually create a negative experience.

467
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:18.320
Like if Chipotle were $50, people would probably not like Chipotle. Even though the product is

468
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:23.600
really good, but at $50, I don't know. And so the reason to pull is so viral, you know, I mean,

469
00:37:23.600 --> 00:37:28.000
it's like the price to value discrepancy is so good that they tell their friends, right? And so

470
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:33.440
that's where this kind of marriage of how can I just short circuit people's brains from value

471
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:37.840
perspective, which is what I what I try to do with the books and the courses so that it becomes

472
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:42.960
viral on its own. And then my cost to a car customers is zero. And so then everything after that

473
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:48.560
is just gravy or the four variables when you're using this is you've got the price, the value at

474
00:37:48.560 --> 00:37:55.120
the top, which is what they get, right? The price is what they pay. You've got your cost of goods

475
00:37:55.120 --> 00:38:00.240
to deliver and then you have your profit leftover. And so it's playing with those four variables

476
00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:08.240
so that you can maximize the the amount of absolute profit that the company makes. Pricing high

477
00:38:08.240 --> 00:38:12.320
has become shorthand and where I think people get a lot of benefit from the offers book is that

478
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:18.640
when you price higher, you automatically weed out shitty customers. And I think many times that is

479
00:38:18.640 --> 00:38:23.440
the real reason that a lot of people's businesses grow from that price. Now obviously there's more

480
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:27.600
profit. There's you have access things that you can that you can deliver on. But a lot of people

481
00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:32.640
don't actually take that access money to create a better experience. They do a gotcha and then they

482
00:38:32.640 --> 00:38:37.280
never get anything with that customer again. And so that's the wrong way to use it. But if I had

483
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.320
to think like, okay, what are the reasons that, you know, a company might be successful that does

484
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:46.720
charge premium is that they actually reinvest the premium price into a superior product. And

485
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:52.640
they are very clear about the avatar that they go after and what the quantitative requirements are

486
00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:56.800
that are black and white that they know from looking at their best customers, their top 20,

487
00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:01.120
top 5% of customers. And then saying we're only going to cater to these customers in the future

488
00:39:01.120 --> 00:39:05.520
because the likely that we can give them a great outcome is higher. And then that can create, you

489
00:39:05.520 --> 00:39:10.640
know, you can merit or earn the premium that you have because you have data that supports that if

490
00:39:10.640 --> 00:39:15.040
you are this type of person, we can get you this type of result. What does the ideal experience

491
00:39:15.040 --> 00:39:20.000
with an accounting firm look like to you? And I ask because one of the things that stuck with me

492
00:39:20.240 --> 00:39:25.280
as you said, you've never done your own books like you've always considered that something that was

493
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:29.520
delegatable, important to delegate. You've also referenced bringing I believe accountants

494
00:39:29.520 --> 00:39:34.480
in house kind of going back and forth between outsource and in house. So what does that ideal

495
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:38.800
relationship look like to you now? And maybe what did that ideal relationship look like when you

496
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:44.240
were going through your first, you know, seven figure and eight figure company? A lot of professional

497
00:39:44.240 --> 00:39:49.280
services should look at Wi-Fi for inspiration. You're like, what does that even mean? You don't,

498
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:54.240
you don't want to like clap when the Wi-Fi is working. You just notice when it doesn't. And so you

499
00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:58.880
just want it to be in the background. You just want it to work, right? And so a lot of companies

500
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:03.200
are like that. Like there's a lot of services that people think they need to like over, you know,

501
00:40:03.200 --> 00:40:07.200
communicate stuff on. Like I just want the financials to be accurate and I want them to be timely.

502
00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:12.320
That's it. And I want things broken down in a way that allows me to make business decisions.

503
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:19.200
And that's where like I think the top tier of accountants transform into fractional CFO.

504
00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:22.560
And CFO kind of materials where they actually help you use this data to make informed

505
00:40:22.560 --> 00:40:27.760
decisions about the business. Is there a way that I can translate what we do into how it would

506
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.960
affect a business owner's life? So I'll tell you a little story because I think this might be

507
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.120
really relevant. This will be really relevant for you guys.

508
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:41.280
Most of the nation real quick, if you are a business owner that has a big old business and wants

509
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:46.400
to get to a much bigger business, going to $50, $100 million plus we would love to talk to you.

510
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:49.920
And if you like that, we would like to hear more about it. Go to acquisition.com and you can

511
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:54.160
plan anywhere on the page and talk to one of our team and see if we can help you get there.

512
00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:00.640
So one of our portfolio companies has had a ton of growth. Three years they went from one location

513
00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:06.160
to I think we're at 38 locations now, right? All stuff funded, all cash flow. All right, so really,

514
00:41:06.160 --> 00:41:11.040
really tremendous growth in three years. And it's compounding. So it's growing faster and faster.

515
00:41:11.600 --> 00:41:17.360
And when we were at about 30 locations, we were stuck at 30 locations for like two quarters.

516
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:23.920
And so I got on the phone with the CEO and he was like, dude, I just I just feel like I don't know

517
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:29.040
how many locations I can open based on cash flow and because they had net receivables were a

518
00:41:29.040 --> 00:41:32.640
little bit extended, things like that, right? I like shook the screen for sick as it was in

519
00:41:32.640 --> 00:41:37.200
call. I was like, I need you to freeze frame this feeling you have right now. I was like, okay,

520
00:41:37.200 --> 00:41:41.840
I was like, think about this feeling you have. I was like, what you were feeling is finance as

521
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:46.080
the constraint of your business. You do not have a finance function that is operationalized enough.

522
00:41:46.080 --> 00:41:50.080
Like you do not like you are undeveloped in the finance function of a bookkeeper who's not that good.

523
00:41:50.080 --> 00:41:54.000
As soon as he like, I could see it just clicked. I was like, that is the constraint of the business.

524
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.480
And until we get the finance function in, you're going to just be operating blind. And then once you

525
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:02.880
know we have this much cash flow, we can open two locations a month or three locations a month.

526
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:06.640
Then you can be more aggressive with everything else because you're confident that you're not

527
00:42:06.640 --> 00:42:11.440
bankrupting the company accidentally on your own. If I were an accounting firm, I would try and

528
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:16.560
pinpoint the problems and relate them to how it's going to affect growth in the business.

529
00:42:16.560 --> 00:42:21.280
Like how is the constraint so that you can talk in the language that a business owner is going to

530
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:26.400
understand? Like they just, how many, I'll bet you, like I could see everyone's hands. How many people

531
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:31.200
in your audience, all the business owners just go to the right, go to the bottom and say, so we made

532
00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:39.040
more money this month? Great. And so I think adding that level of strategy of like, by the way,

533
00:42:39.040 --> 00:42:42.800
I think this is a little fat compared to other companies that we're looking at. This is a little

534
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.240
bit under compared to other companies we're looking at. And this might be an area of opportunity.

535
00:42:47.200 --> 00:42:51.840
Little things like that that actually add value to the business. If I were somebody who is in charge

536
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:56.000
of account. I'd like to get this answer in less than 60 seconds because I have, I know we got

537
00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.320
to go and I want to be respectful of your time. This has been incredibly informative. How much of a

538
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:06.160
skill should you develop or how much do you educate yourself before hiring for it? So for

539
00:43:06.160 --> 00:43:13.040
example, like, do I need to be a sales manager before hiring or sales management? What you,

540
00:43:13.040 --> 00:43:17.600
what you hit at is one of the hardest parts of business. You need to make an informed decision

541
00:43:17.600 --> 00:43:22.400
without context, which is why being an entrepreneur, you end up becoming a jack of all trades so that you

542
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:27.840
can have enough context to make at least an informed decision. And so I'm going to steal a playbook

543
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:32.160
out of oops wrong shoulder. There we go out of lay list book here and I'll give you my tactic

544
00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:36.640
around this, which is you want to interview for people who are sales managers and you don't want

545
00:43:36.640 --> 00:43:40.640
to hire anyone for a little bit, which sounds tough. But what you want to do is you basically want

546
00:43:40.640 --> 00:43:46.080
to interview for information. Now, if you meet a gold star that's amazing, but you want to talk to

547
00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:52.000
people and if you know more about it than they do, they should be teaching you. And once you talk

548
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:57.280
to 10, 20 people, they're basically like expert interviews for what it should look like. And so

549
00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:01.840
then you get a very good idea of what the role should look like after listening to people,

550
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:06.000
and you'll get an understanding of the level of nuance. And I'll give you this one little tidbit

551
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:12.160
that is super powerful when it comes to judging skill. The quality and quantity of data that

552
00:44:12.160 --> 00:44:17.680
someone chooses to collect around their particular department is almost directly proportional to their

553
00:44:17.680 --> 00:44:23.520
skill. And so for example, I have lots of marketers who are like, I'm in a mate, my product's amazing.

554
00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:27.760
And I say, cool, tell me your metrics are. I was like, what's time to value? What are the key

555
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:33.280
activation points? What's churn? Some of these metrics and they're like, we'll do our refund rates

556
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:37.120
really low. But I'm like, okay, I was like, well, what about the marketing side? They're like, well,

557
00:44:37.120 --> 00:44:41.520
CPMs are this. This is our click-through rate. This is our conversion on the page. This is our

558
00:44:41.520 --> 00:44:44.960
percentage. The schedulers are percentage to show. This is percentage open rate. This is percentage

559
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:49.600
click. They go through all this stuff and I'm like, right. So I can see very clearly that you're a

560
00:44:49.600 --> 00:44:55.120
better marketer than you are at product. And so simply getting an idea of the quality and

561
00:44:55.120 --> 00:45:00.640
quantity of the data that someone collects around their department will get like when we hired

562
00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:04.080
our director of people, it was the first time that I had someone actually tell me metrics I'd never

563
00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:09.120
heard of. And I was like, she's the lady. She's the girl. My community loves you. And that's all

564
00:45:09.120 --> 00:45:15.840
we are here. And I literally got like 150 questions. I had to narrow it down to five or six. It was

565
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:21.120
so hard. You mentioned something in the 100-minute offer that to hit your first 100K, you don't

566
00:45:21.120 --> 00:45:25.840
need a lot. You just need an offer to sell. And that's exactly what we did. But right now we are

567
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:31.440
hitting a bottleneck. And our biggest bottleneck is operations. And I want to know how exactly you

568
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:36.960
got out of gym-launched operation because we have a very similar business model for, I know, service

569
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:41.840
providers. For what service providers? Mostly agencies and digital consultants with lead generation

570
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:47.040
and sales. We do it as with one-on-one consulting and in a group coaching format. So coaching

571
00:45:47.040 --> 00:45:51.840
models in general tend to be very difficult to scale because the reason people come to use for

572
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:56.880
expertise in order to get other people to provide that expertise, then you have to create lots of

573
00:45:56.880 --> 00:46:01.120
experts who then eventually walk off and start the business on your behalf and take your customers

574
00:46:01.120 --> 00:46:04.880
with them. I would say like there's a couple different approaches. So the first is that there's

575
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:10.320
the law firm and the McKinsey kind of consulting model. There's a track to become a partner in the

576
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:14.320
business. And then that's kind of the whole business structure. So there's a way to share in

577
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:18.080
the profits. They do make lots of money. But the owners of those end up having to loot themselves

578
00:46:18.080 --> 00:46:20.960
out. Not that there's anything wrong with that. You can make lots of money doing it. But that is

579
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:26.640
that is a version of the model. The other way is to productize the basically getting narrower

580
00:46:26.640 --> 00:46:31.120
on the solution that you're providing and productize it to the greatest degree possible so that anyone

581
00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:35.520
could do it even if they have no knowledge of it in terms of like the implementation of the thing.

582
00:46:35.520 --> 00:46:40.960
That is more the direction that we went with Jim much because we had a very specific we don't even

583
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:44.880
we didn't even work with all gyms just to show how narrow we were with it. We worked with only

584
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:49.840
micro gym owners. We have now expanded to health clubs as well. The five or six years that I was

585
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:54.560
doing it before we sold we were only micro gyms. And so just to show like how incredibly narrow that

586
00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:59.680
was someone had to have at least 30 members assigned lease one employee and be running this type of

587
00:46:59.680 --> 00:47:03.760
model for them to be a customer. And then if they fit all those things we could generate a lot of

588
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:08.160
revenue using our playbooks. I could have somebody who had no gym industry, no expertise whatsoever

589
00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:12.560
and still say send this email, say these words. Here's 10 recordings of people doing this exact

590
00:47:12.560 --> 00:47:18.160
same thing. This is the expected value. And so that's like from the delivery perspective. Now operating

591
00:47:18.160 --> 00:47:22.240
the business overall comes from talent and being able to find people who are just as smart or

592
00:47:22.240 --> 00:47:27.360
smarter than you and people say that. But when you actually meet somebody who's smarter than you

593
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:32.560
and then they admire an aspect of what you've done so that they start to work for you. That's where

594
00:47:32.560 --> 00:47:37.920
you really start to have the magic happen. What are some of the things that agency owner should avoid

595
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:43.120
doing if they ever wanted to scale any way to speed. Okay, so what things should an agency owner

596
00:47:43.120 --> 00:47:47.200
avoid when they're trying to scale? Yeah, yeah. I mean the same things that any business owner would

597
00:47:47.200 --> 00:47:51.120
want to avoid when they're scaling agencies tend to fall into the you know they tend to fall into

598
00:47:51.120 --> 00:47:55.200
the bucket of trying to be everything to everyone. So maintaining the discipline to be very focused

599
00:47:55.200 --> 00:47:59.680
about the problem that you're solving and who you're solving it for. And I think that solves 90%

600
00:47:59.680 --> 00:48:04.640
of the problems from a strategic perspective for any small business owner including an agency.

601
00:48:04.640 --> 00:48:08.480
The second piece is that if you're in a service-based business, the quality of your talent is going

602
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:13.120
to be directly proportional to your growth because you're you're basically selling people,

603
00:48:13.120 --> 00:48:17.360
fractionalized people. That's what service businesses are, right? You're selling some level of

604
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:23.280
training that you're able to give and having more efficiency than an individual business owner would

605
00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:29.600
have. Like the classic, you know, small business owner or lead gen agency that charges $2,000 a month,

606
00:48:29.600 --> 00:48:33.280
the idea is that if they were to hire somebody full-time to run these ads, it would cost them $6,000

607
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:38.960
a month, but you have collaborators, designers and media buyers and page designers who all work

608
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:42.800
a fraction of their time for this one business and they can get it more efficiently and you can still

609
00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:47.520
do it at good margins, right? Like that's fundamentally what service businesses are. And so the quality

610
00:48:47.600 --> 00:48:53.600
of that talent and the culture that you have at the business to attract and keep that talent are

611
00:48:53.600 --> 00:48:58.320
the kind of the key or the crucial pieces of the success of the model. You mentioned something in

612
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:02.880
the book where you mentioned the agency model where you hire an agency to learn the stuff and you

613
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:09.200
internalize it and then when you have stopped learning, you replace an agency, but meeting agency

614
00:49:09.200 --> 00:49:15.360
models, agency businesses, how to become irreplaceable. In your perspective, how should one go there?

615
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.520
Should we start with one business then upsell the next and upsell the next and upsell the next offer?

616
00:49:19.520 --> 00:49:23.840
Creating the years of sublaw for isn't necessarily about having a zillion products. It's more about

617
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:28.160
explaining and communicating the many small things that you have to do anyways. And so rather than

618
00:49:28.160 --> 00:49:32.480
saying like, I'm going to generate leads for you, that's like one outcome, but there's many things

619
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:35.520
that have to happen along the way. You have to create landing pages, you have to write copy, you have

620
00:49:35.520 --> 00:49:38.640
to you have to have follow-up sequences, you have to work the leads, you have to have scheduling,

621
00:49:38.640 --> 00:49:42.320
you have to, you know, you have to split tests, you have to make new creative. Like there's lots of

622
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:45.600
things that have to happen in order to just get the single result. And it's just making sure that

623
00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:50.320
we're delineating those things because an unbeknownst or an ignorant business owner, I say ignorant in

624
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:54.000
the technical sense, like they just don't know, would have no idea what you're doing. You're like, yeah,

625
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.040
just go get me leads. It's like, well, it's much easier said than done. And if I was doing it from an

626
00:49:57.040 --> 00:50:00.560
outbound perspective, I'd be like, well, I have to warm up domains. I have to, you know, spin up different

627
00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:04.000
accounts. I have to split test different email openers. I have to split like, you have to explain

628
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:07.280
all the steps and they're like, wow, there's a lot more work that goes into this. Now I can, I can

629
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:12.080
appropriately value this price tag that you described to whatever the service is. So that's piece one.

630
00:50:12.080 --> 00:50:17.120
In order to be irreplaceable, oftentimes you'd have to go after significantly bigger customers.

631
00:50:17.120 --> 00:50:22.400
If you're an agency for Fortune 1,000 for Fortune 500 companies, it would be so costly for them

632
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:27.920
to spin up at scale the level of talent that's required to do like programmatic media buys across

633
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:31.680
100 different platforms in different countries. And then the likelihood that they want to leave or do

634
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:37.440
this on their own is significantly lower. The idea that any service provider is going to become

635
00:50:38.080 --> 00:50:42.080
truly irreplaceable, like any business can do anything on their own. And I would prefer to put

636
00:50:42.080 --> 00:50:46.960
myself out of business and do it in a way that aligns my customers with me. Then have a model that I

637
00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:52.880
know is, is basically has a timer for obsolescence. Not everybody works. It's Fortune 500 companies,

638
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:57.760
right? So if you will, many people, they might work with, you know, a small and medium businesses.

639
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:01.680
They help them. Let's say you become a marketing agency for gyro practice and you look,

640
00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:05.040
you become so good at that. In general, people won't leave you because they're just good at that

641
00:51:05.040 --> 00:51:09.760
particular service. And the thing is, the small business owners are really tough because they're

642
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:13.760
the problem. Like they're super erratic. They're super volatile. They're cash flows lumpy. They

643
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:17.600
don't know where their next paycheck is going to come from. And to no fault of your own, they can

644
00:51:17.600 --> 00:51:21.200
cancel because they just can't make payroll that month. Look at the biggest agencies that exist.

645
00:51:21.200 --> 00:51:26.720
Ogle V, you have Vayner. He knows up there now. Who do they service? Massive companies. Why? Because

646
00:51:26.720 --> 00:51:30.000
the quality the customers are higher. And so they know that when they sign a contract, they actually

647
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.720
stick with the contract. We don't know if you have a small business owner who signed the 12-month

648
00:51:32.720 --> 00:51:37.360
agreement for agency services. He's good for three months. The biggest model that I've seen for

649
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:43.040
small business owners from a marketing perspective was an agency that was running $300 a month.

650
00:51:43.040 --> 00:51:46.160
What? $300 a month price point because they had figured out, and like there's a key here,

651
00:51:46.160 --> 00:51:50.720
is that like those business owners are so price sensitive. It's not whether you can sell them.

652
00:51:50.720 --> 00:51:54.720
It's whether you can keep them on the worst month. The price isn't based on the value that you can

653
00:51:54.720 --> 00:51:58.480
deliver on the best month. But how much you can keep on the worst month? Because that's where

654
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:03.440
the turn comes in. The best model that I saw was doing SEO for small business owners. And they

655
00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:09.520
had completely automated every aspect of it. It was basically just a playbook. And I think it generated

656
00:52:09.520 --> 00:52:14.720
reviews and maybe a couple phone calls a month. But at a $300 a month price point, if they got one or

657
00:52:14.720 --> 00:52:20.160
two phone calls a month, it was worth it. So the bar to get over to to ascribe value. And especially

658
00:52:20.160 --> 00:52:23.760
on something that I call like a nuisance business, where it's like, I know I should be maintaining my

659
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.840
reputation. I know I should be doing some of this stuff. Okay, for $200 or $300 a month, I don't

660
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:32.240
feel guilty about not doing it because this is being handled. We are in a consulting model. What

661
00:52:32.240 --> 00:52:37.040
happens is some clients actually do the work and they get results. And some clients, they need a lot

662
00:52:37.040 --> 00:52:42.320
of follow ups and they need a lot of accountability from you. How do you maintain that? I know I'm

663
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:47.040
getting very integrated into this. But I'm good with the degree. You talk to basically one of the

664
00:52:47.040 --> 00:52:52.080
core problems of all B2B businesses, which is that you end up taking over the person's entire business

665
00:52:52.080 --> 00:52:55.120
until eventually they're like, yeah, if you could just send me a check every month and you do,

666
00:52:55.120 --> 00:52:58.080
you run the business, that would be awesome. That's why being very disciplined about problem

667
00:52:58.080 --> 00:53:01.920
definition from the services that you provide. Number one, and here's the one that everyone messes

668
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:06.800
up. Who you pick? It's not like even if you work with chiropractors, right? As that example,

669
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:10.080
you don't necessarily even want to work with all chiropractors. You look at the customers that you

670
00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:14.640
have right now that are the best customers, like the top 20% or the top 10%. You say, okay, what

671
00:53:14.640 --> 00:53:19.200
characteristics do these people have that other people don't have in my client list? And that's

672
00:53:19.200 --> 00:53:22.960
both from the software, the hard perspective, one of the quantitative differences they have a

673
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:26.000
certain size business. They're over a certain amount of month. They have a number of locations.

674
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:30.720
They have a certain amount of employees, a number of customers. You just get all that data on them.

675
00:53:30.720 --> 00:53:34.720
And then also what was the experience that they went through when working with me and was it

676
00:53:34.720 --> 00:53:38.480
different than some of my other customers? Because one of the things that happens oftentimes is that

677
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:43.120
the first few customers you get become really sticky and then you start scaling and then you have

678
00:53:43.120 --> 00:53:46.400
this front revolving door, but you still have your core business of these people that you had in

679
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:50.720
the beginning, right? So why is that? Because these people got more help from you and actually got

680
00:53:50.720 --> 00:53:55.520
delivered more value and then you basically tried to scale without scaling the value that you delivered

681
00:53:55.520 --> 00:53:59.200
to the original customers, right? And so if you're at whatever 15,000 a month and you've got five

682
00:53:59.200 --> 00:54:01.840
customers and they're all like having a great experience and you keep signing people on, they keep

683
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:06.320
leaving, it's like, okay, well, instead of me trying to sell five this month, why don't I just sell

684
00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:10.800
one and do a great job and then not lose them? And like that's the key to compounding in a service

685
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:16.080
business once you pay down the, pay down the inefficiencies of them not knowing what to do yet.

686
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:19.680
And being very specific about who you serve and who you don't, like we didn't work with personal

687
00:54:19.680 --> 00:54:26.480
trainers, cycling studios and like yoga studios, 100% could use our model. We didn't work with them

688
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:30.560
because the founders tended to be psychologically different. Their adherence was super low because

689
00:54:30.560 --> 00:54:35.200
they just come from a totally different worldview than the guys who were more fitness, weight loss,

690
00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:38.960
transformation focused. Even though at the end of the day, it's just a membership with a backroom

691
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:45.680
where people work out, but mindset wise, they had a very hard time kind of adopting a different model.

692
00:54:45.680 --> 00:54:49.920
Even though monetarily, it totally made sense, which means you need to have discipline to say no.

693
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:55.040
Dude, this is so hard to say no to this new upcoming business because you know they can help them,

694
00:54:55.040 --> 00:54:57.840
but they just don't fit your criteria. 100%

695
00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:01.840
Dude, I have 13 companies. I get 1,800 a day who reach out.

696
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:07.600
Whoa. Right. So you have to say no. It feels weird to like say no because a lot of the time I get

697
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:10.560
always specifically, that's how most people stay poor.

698
00:55:10.560 --> 00:55:13.920
They can't say no and what happens is you go through the short term money and you sacrifice

699
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:17.600
the long term money because then you just get in this operational rat race and then you scale up

700
00:55:17.600 --> 00:55:20.880
your costs to meet the fact that you took on all these customers that you shouldn't have taken

701
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:23.680
on to begin with and then you have to pay them every single month so then you have to keep on

702
00:55:23.680 --> 00:55:26.560
taking on customers that you shouldn't have taken on to begin with and you get in this vicious cycle

703
00:55:26.560 --> 00:55:31.280
that you can't get out until you downsize. You take two steps back, five steps back, fix your ego

704
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:34.720
and then say I'm only working with these customers because ethically I know that these are the ones

705
00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:38.800
that I have the highest likely to success with. Everyone else, I have mediocre success and I can say

706
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:42.080
it's their fault. I can say it's my fault. It doesn't really matter. All that I know is that the

707
00:55:42.080 --> 00:55:46.000
likely that they achieve what I think they should achieve is love. Period, so I'm not going to

708
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:52.720
solve it. I do afraid that the AML will smaller like of course, you can build a niche, an inch wide

709
00:55:52.720 --> 00:55:57.600
and a mile deep. There's 30 million small businesses. You don't need to service them. Like there's

710
00:55:57.600 --> 00:56:01.440
there's 50,000 gyms that fit the model that we have. Now if you want to build a $10 billion

711
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:05.760
company then yeah you're gonna have to go after a bigger problem but if you want to build a nine

712
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:09.680
figure company you can do that in almost any industry. So you mentioned that when you started out

713
00:56:09.680 --> 00:56:14.000
you started with the first five customer framework that was awesome and then you just grew with

714
00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:19.680
referrals. So this question came from a fitness consultant herself and she said that with the

715
00:56:19.680 --> 00:56:25.520
competition that the fitness market is how do you stand out? Honestly it's just being authentic. 99%

716
00:56:25.520 --> 00:56:29.440
of the fitness market just looks at what other influencers are doing and say I'll just copy that

717
00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:33.920
and I'll do stuff like that. But then you just do a worse version of what somebody's already doing.

718
00:56:34.080 --> 00:56:38.640
Zooming all the way out fitness like there's no secret. Work out more, stop eating shitty,

719
00:56:38.640 --> 00:56:41.680
you'll look better over a longer time horizon. Like that's what it is, right? There's going to be

720
00:56:41.680 --> 00:56:46.880
a subset of an audience that is like you genuinely and they want to get their they could get fitness

721
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:52.400
information from Alex but if I'm a you know a 45 year old Indian mother I'm probably not going to

722
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.040
be her source for fitness information even if I say the identical stuff as another 45 year old

723
00:56:57.040 --> 00:57:00.640
Indian mother. Now if that 45 year old Indian mother looks at my fitness content and tries to make

724
00:57:00.640 --> 00:57:05.040
content like mine it's going to seem weird. You can stick out by actually being yourself. I know

725
00:57:05.040 --> 00:57:11.360
it sounds right but the real like this is real. There are so many unique aspects of someone's life

726
00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:16.320
and the things they're interested in compared to other people that if you just lean into those

727
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:20.800
differences those those unique as the things that you're actually into that are weird, right? Rogan's

728
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:25.920
into aliens and mushrooms and comedy and fighting. Who would have told him like you should be Joe

729
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:32.160
Rogan and you're going to have people who like some aspects and then the super fans will be

730
00:57:32.160 --> 00:57:36.720
people who overlap on two or three of the interests that you have. If you picked my brand to be like

731
00:57:36.720 --> 00:57:42.880
dessert, working out, philosophy, business, marketing, sales, they're different. They're people who

732
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:45.600
follow me because they only like the business money stuff. They're people following me because

733
00:57:45.600 --> 00:57:48.640
they only like the philosophy stuff. They're people who follow me because they just think that

734
00:57:48.640 --> 00:57:52.720
desserts and calves stuff is funny. Like it just depends on what someone's going to come in for

735
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.760
but if you're just you then you can stick with it for the long term and that's what's going to

736
00:57:55.760 --> 00:58:00.960
build over time and make you quote stand out because there is only one version of you that's lived

737
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:05.600
your life. So just live it publicly. Thanks a lot man. I think we had at the end of our tenure. Thank

738
00:58:05.600 --> 00:58:11.280
you very much for being here and keep writing great books. I hope I hope you make so much money from

739
00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:14.640
the book and just and crush it because at the end of the day there's more problems than anyone

740
00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:20.160
person can solve and I hope we build businesses to solve them. So explain to me how the franchise

741
00:58:21.120 --> 00:58:24.240
works. Yeah. So we have a lot of clients that want to work with us and we have a lot of

742
00:58:24.240 --> 00:58:28.720
closures that want to work with us and Yolvin and I would just can't manage everything ourselves.

743
00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:34.560
It's just too many people. We had two options. Option number one is place managers to replace us

744
00:58:34.560 --> 00:58:39.600
right and then give like two to three accounts, client accounts to each manager so they can manage

745
00:58:39.600 --> 00:58:44.720
them obviously and we can scale that way. The problem with that was that managers only get paid so

746
00:58:44.720 --> 00:58:50.640
much and they only care so much about the business itself right but when it comes to partners they

747
00:58:50.640 --> 00:58:57.120
get 50% cut. They get exactly what we are getting 50-50. The franchise thing is interesting because

748
00:58:57.120 --> 00:59:01.040
I feel like you would be able to achieve that simply with a profit share rather than getting investment

749
00:59:01.040 --> 00:59:05.360
and equity and all like the because if speed is the goal then you could basically do the makeshift

750
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:09.520
in terms because like they're I'm assuming many of them aren't planning on selling right and so

751
00:59:09.520 --> 00:59:13.360
the only reason the equity would be valuable is if they're going to sell it sometime in the future

752
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:17.440
and buying quote more locations isn't really a thing either. I would imagine that just I could be

753
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:22.960
a lot faster just contract basically put legal language around getting a profit share in the

754
00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:26.960
structure you know the cut that you have like many companies have scaled sales orgs you know I mean

755
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:31.120
like insurance brokerages are just massive sales orgs like real estate agents are massive sales orgs

756
00:59:31.120 --> 00:59:35.360
and so they don't necessarily have equity you know what I mean equity deals because those can just

757
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:38.480
get litigious and there's lawyers and just take I'm sure you guys have already seen this like it just

758
00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:43.360
more time and I feel like there might be like you could probably remove a couple of components to

759
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:47.440
get the same behavior which is ultimately what you're trying to do is get people who act like owners

760
00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:51.120
so that's just that's me just shooting right off the cuff I'm just looking at it. So that's kind

761
00:59:51.120 --> 00:59:55.120
of why we kind of came up with the franchise model to put like a nice barrier there so it's for

762
00:59:55.120 --> 00:59:59.840
people who like have the experience in the space of running an agency or like scaling managing

763
00:59:59.840 --> 01:00:03.840
how to get sales teams but now you're getting like the infrastructure that we kind of built over

764
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:07.600
the past four years. I mean you can still do all that without the without the franchise agreement

765
01:00:07.600 --> 01:00:12.560
but what problem are you solving? Why are you not bigger? It's a management problem just in general

766
01:00:12.560 --> 01:00:17.520
we're bringing on more partners and doing it faster and doing it more in a more organized way

767
01:00:17.520 --> 01:00:23.280
so what you said it does make sense because that will remove some friction and it would allow us to

768
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:29.440
bring more people without risking you know the equity in any way. I mean based on the model you

769
01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:33.920
have you guys can own 100% of the you know like the franchise or but even if it was just like

770
01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:39.040
you know the main co you can still have streams because you have the software so tracking becomes

771
01:00:39.040 --> 01:00:42.240
the issue but since you already have that infrastructure built the ability to just make sure that

772
01:00:42.240 --> 01:00:46.480
they get overrides. Now if you want to put you know a $10,000 buy in or something just because you

773
01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:52.480
feel like that increases commitment levels I mean that's fine but if you look at like a Chick-fil-A for

774
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:57.600
example are familiar with their model. Yeah right and so that you know each location probably cost

775
01:00:57.600 --> 01:01:00.960
I actually don't know the build out cost but I would imagine it cost at least a million probably one

776
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:05.920
and a half to build a location for Chick-fil-A and the operators put $10,000 in and so it's more of a

777
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:10.560
symbolic gesture than it is like them actually contributing capital to whatever the thing is but they

778
01:01:10.560 --> 01:01:16.160
actually don't own equity in the business. So they get a 50-50 profit share after a royalty that

779
01:01:16.160 --> 01:01:21.120
goes to Holdka just looking at what they've been able to build it seems that that that structure works

780
01:01:21.120 --> 01:01:26.560
without the equity in terms of eliciting the behavior that you guys are going for but from everything

781
01:01:26.560 --> 01:01:30.240
that you said even right at the beginning you were like well we needed something that was more

782
01:01:30.240 --> 01:01:34.000
scalable because obviously we had lots of people there's many people who have scaled businesses

783
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.760
with lots of people and so it sounds like it's actually a talent deficit like you need to hire

784
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:43.360
somebody or bring someone who's a high-level operator who has scaled a sales driven org what's

785
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:48.000
revenue right now? Revenue for the phone sales organization? Sure. Well everyone is different

786
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:53.040
around like four million right now. Per month is that GMV so like gross sales volume and then you're

787
01:01:53.040 --> 01:01:59.440
getting whatever 20-25% on that yeah so you'd be looking at somebody who's scaled a sales org from

788
01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:04.720
you know 10 million to 100 million and who's really opt heavy so you want somebody who looks like

789
01:02:04.720 --> 01:02:09.040
who's very very leadership driven not a systems person wrong that's not the right person you're

790
01:02:09.040 --> 01:02:13.440
looking for somebody who's who you admire take this away I mean you need an adult right it doesn't

791
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:17.120
that's that a function of age just saying you need someone who has experience doing this

792
01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:22.320
because if I were looking at like if I were going to go buy in right to phone sales the first

793
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:25.760
thing I would do is hire an operator because right now all the things that you've described have been

794
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:29.920
people issues so if I'm operating on the theory of constraint which is what we do I'd say okay well

795
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:34.320
then people issues seem to be the main problem for this business so I'm going to hire somebody

796
01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:38.320
who has experience in this particular domain in a sales org who has gone from x to z.

797
01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:43.440
A million dollar question where do you find such people? Well you guys are sales guys right so it's

798
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:48.160
outbound outbound is the easiest thing to do you could also run ads but the best people already have

799
01:02:48.160 --> 01:02:54.480
jobs and I mean you guys know this from from your business right and so it would be it would be

800
01:02:54.480 --> 01:03:00.400
outreach outreach is the easiest thing to do go to LinkedIn and LinkedIn has so many tools now

801
01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:06.080
like search for people who meet these you know these three or four job titles probably like a

802
01:03:06.080 --> 01:03:11.440
like a senior vice president or you know VP of sales sales director might be a little too low

803
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:16.960
but probably a VP of sales or VP of sales ops something like that like you'll have to play with

804
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:20.880
the title it is kind of like an ad in advertising like you have to play to figure out when you get the

805
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:25.440
right avatars on the phone but as soon as you get to click then you're like okay these are the types

806
01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:29.840
of people I want and then you talk to as many as you can and the limits test that I have for high

807
01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:34.000
level talent is that I should be learning from them on the phone call so if I feel like I have to

808
01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:37.920
teach them stuff they're not the right person like if they're teaching me things which is also great

809
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:42.080
because then you can keep taking notes and after 20 or 30 phone calls you're like okay I have a

810
01:03:42.080 --> 01:03:47.360
very good idea of what excellent looks like and I can make a more educated decision on the type

811
01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:52.480
of person that I want but that person who's very operational should be a people driven leader

812
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:57.280
especially in this type of work for the second part of the school we would like to just bring

813
01:03:57.280 --> 01:04:03.600
more partners to and just ask themselves questions in general and learn from you know with our

814
01:04:03.600 --> 01:04:08.800
models do you believe that we should utilize group selling methods like webinars seminars events

815
01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:13.920
that way we can compress the time frame we make money or just focus on one-to-one sales I think it

816
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:20.080
depends on the product is being saved usually products above $30,000 and that's why we were focusing

817
01:04:20.080 --> 01:04:25.120
on like one-to-one model right now I think you can do so the way that I like building a sales

818
01:04:25.120 --> 01:04:28.800
orgs is having repeated sales materials and then individualized so like repeated sales materials

819
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:32.880
are going to be like the VSL the webinars things like that but you're not you're not closing on those

820
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:37.520
webinars you're just qualifying and setting and so I want sales guys to be doing as little

821
01:04:37.520 --> 01:04:41.680
information spewing as humanly possible and really being able to start the call with so you're ready

822
01:04:41.680 --> 01:04:47.280
to buy and then yes or no and then work your way so you have 60 minutes to close rather than okay

823
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:52.160
great now like discovery like let me talk to you about how we might be able to help you because if

824
01:04:52.160 --> 01:04:55.600
you because then sales guys get really tired of saying the exact same pitch then they sound like robots

825
01:04:55.600 --> 01:04:59.360
then they get zoned out because they're saying something they're not listening and so the talk

826
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:06.720
ratios get way off and so I prefer having as much of the standardized information sharing

827
01:05:06.720 --> 01:05:11.840
being done before the call so that the closers time can be maximized to closing rather than just

828
01:05:11.840 --> 01:05:16.320
like teaching but I wouldn't be trying to pitch 30k stuff directly to a payment page I'd probably

829
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:21.600
be pitching that to you know qualify or set calls yeah that's how we're we're doing it right now

830
01:05:21.600 --> 01:05:26.400
but we've seen some other people they have like live webinars you know and they have the sales guys

831
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:31.040
on the like you know isn't even though they're selling super high ticket offers they try to like do

832
01:05:31.040 --> 01:05:37.120
that communication slash information stage of the call like just through the chat and then ones

833
01:05:37.120 --> 01:05:40.960
they show level of interest then they get them on the call well they're using the webinar as the set

834
01:05:41.600 --> 01:05:44.880
correct at the end of the day there's a certain amount of information that someone needs to have

835
01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:48.960
or some amount of like exposure that they have to have to a brand or product for them to you know

836
01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:55.120
make a buying decision and so that can be a long set and then a short close it can be a set webinar

837
01:05:55.120 --> 01:05:59.040
close it can be a long webinar then a close like there's just a certain amount of selling you know

838
01:05:59.040 --> 01:06:02.720
the runway for the plane has to be a certain length doesn't really matter where you slice it it

839
01:06:02.720 --> 01:06:06.640
just has like this is a mount that the majority of people need to have before making a purchasing

840
01:06:06.640 --> 01:06:10.320
decision now some people might need less and that's okay because they probably got it beforehand

841
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:14.240
from other things that they've consumed so if you want to say okay how do I sell well I want to

842
01:06:14.240 --> 01:06:18.800
increase the likelihood that some that the the highest percentage of people buy then I want to

843
01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:23.520
create an experience that the highest percentage people get all of the information that they need prior

844
01:06:23.520 --> 01:06:28.800
to the closing conversation and so if you do a webinar as a big set thing I mean to me that's the

845
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:32.400
same I mean that's all the same like if you run ads to webinar ads to VSL then they go to a

846
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:36.640
scheduler or you know if you have a live call team where you have a number that becomes the CTA

847
01:06:36.640 --> 01:06:40.720
and then the call teams answering calls in real time operationally I wouldn't I wouldn't up in

848
01:06:40.720 --> 01:06:44.320
my entire business because of just a slightly different way of doing it because I think it's more

849
01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:48.240
happy to glad as long as your throughput is good and you're you know like you're making money

850
01:06:48.240 --> 01:06:51.600
and you're growing right now I would I don't know if that would be the constraint of the business

851
01:06:51.600 --> 01:06:54.960
so like I think the stuff we were talking about earlier like that seems more of the constraint

852
01:06:54.960 --> 01:07:00.320
than kind of the the individual tactics you know in the example you gave what's your method for

853
01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:06.720
building trust and credibility on a sales call in like the fastest way possible like what method

854
01:07:06.720 --> 01:07:11.200
well-approached do you often take from that well I mean brand matters more than anything

855
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:18.160
like right off the bat and the you know the vast majority of like the the hard closing tactics

856
01:07:18.160 --> 01:07:23.280
and hard sales tactics have to exist in lieu of not having a brand right it's like we have to make

857
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:28.080
up all this hard stuff uh it's kind of like in the matrix and it's like uh when you're good enough

858
01:07:28.080 --> 01:07:32.000
you won't have to dodge bullets or like you're saying I can dodge bullets it's like well when you're

859
01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:37.040
ready you won't have to so like the brand is when you're ready you won't have to but if you don't have

860
01:07:37.040 --> 01:07:41.040
that which is the big thing that you should have but if you don't have that then it's the same things

861
01:07:41.040 --> 01:07:45.760
that you would normally do you're gonna try and find common ground be relatable uh trying like a lot of

862
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:49.520
it just comes down to how well do you understand the avatar right so I think a lot of sales teams

863
01:07:49.520 --> 01:07:56.080
under under prepare by under understanding the avatar the prospect and overeducate on the product

864
01:07:56.080 --> 01:08:01.520
like if I understand what a 45 year old woman's suffering from I can basically do the same sales call

865
01:08:01.520 --> 01:08:05.760
and at the end of the call say I can pitch therapy I could pitch I could pitch weight loss I could

866
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:09.920
pitch a gym membership I could pitch you know I could be cleaning services it doesn't really matter

867
01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:13.440
because if I understand the avatar really well I'll be able to speak to her pains and what you said

868
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:17.840
is true like brand is extremely powerful and with the clients that we take on fire agency do you

869
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:22.240
recommend that we go for people of very strong brands and take that approach I that's that's

870
01:08:22.240 --> 01:08:26.480
the way to be the focus like always go for the brand and from there yeah strong brand strong product

871
01:08:26.480 --> 01:08:31.600
for sure fair question though yeah relatability common ground what's been the number one reason

872
01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:37.120
you seem to show up rates increase or decrease uh it's it's a hundred golden babies no silver bullets

873
01:08:37.120 --> 01:08:40.800
so when we when we go to a company we have a something called lead nurture checklist and so it's just

874
01:08:41.280 --> 01:08:45.920
17 things that we do and each one of them adds like two to five percent and so that's how we

875
01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:50.880
can get something from like 30 40 percent sure it's 85 percent sure it's just doing a lot of little

876
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:56.640
things so I would not look for like the one trick it's just like okay how quickly are responding

877
01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:00.560
how how much information we provide them beforehand are we writing a personalized video like can we

878
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:04.320
give them a gift card for showing up that they can share our coffee with us like just how many

879
01:09:04.320 --> 01:09:08.400
different things can we add in to increase the likelihood that they show can we can we create an

880
01:09:08.400 --> 01:09:11.680
open loop between the set and the close that they're going to get information that they are they

881
01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:15.520
had got their interest their their interest peaked is there a way that we can say that we're

882
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:17.840
going to show them that we're going to do a certain amount of work on the behalf and we're going to

883
01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:22.560
give them the deliverable on the next call right so they have a huge incentive they've huge curiosity

884
01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:25.840
so that they would want to show up like this is particularly true in insurance products so like we

885
01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:29.680
have an insurance company and so like we create personalized insurance plans it's like okay well

886
01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:32.400
how do we get more people to shop but we don't want to send them the insurance plan that we're

887
01:09:32.400 --> 01:09:36.000
going to make them before the call we just say we'll explain it to you on the call yeah we

888
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:40.000
implement a lot of those tactics as well probably there's some stuff that you're doing now we

889
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.280
currently don't have at the moment as well I don't know if it makes sense to share on this fault

890
01:09:43.280 --> 01:09:48.000
but you said those kind of like 17 things is a pulse you can maybe like send it to us no so

891
01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:54.480
law no all right honestly it really depends on what the business is if we're looking at an insurance

892
01:09:54.480 --> 01:09:59.200
business versus a weight loss business like it's more applying a principle across but that being

893
01:09:59.200 --> 01:10:03.760
said the big one that's that's probably missing like it's usually the big obvious thing which is

894
01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:10.000
we can always do the hundreds of little tactics but you're trying to dodge bullets rather than like

895
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:15.440
winning before you start which is like why why do so few people trust you like that's the big that's

896
01:10:15.440 --> 01:10:20.480
the big like I see the matrix and then everything else becomes irrelevant so for acquisitions not

897
01:10:20.480 --> 01:10:26.160
calm our show rate on calls is nearly 100% so if we call so if we say hey we'd like to find out

898
01:10:26.160 --> 01:10:31.520
more about your business today is Tuesday our next opening is Thursday of next week so nine days

899
01:10:31.520 --> 01:10:36.480
from now show rates still 100% because of brand we actually don't need to do any of those tactics

900
01:10:36.480 --> 01:10:40.800
now we have those tactics so that we can help the the companies that don't have those level of brands

901
01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:45.040
but like you want to stack the deck you want to answer the question why does no one trust me

902
01:10:45.040 --> 01:10:49.040
and solve that otherwise you're always going to deal with these issues like do the fundamentals for

903
01:10:49.040 --> 01:10:53.680
sure but the big the big things that don't matter most is who you're choosing is your customers

904
01:10:53.680 --> 01:10:57.040
so vista you guys heard of vista private equity so they're the biggest they're the biggest

905
01:10:57.040 --> 01:11:00.880
software private equity they've got a gazillion dollars whatever the way that they look at a business

906
01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:06.160
is that they do a customer analysis and so they look for the 80-20 right they look for the 20%

907
01:11:06.160 --> 01:11:09.760
of customers that are worth more than everyone else and they then do a customer analysis and say

908
01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:15.760
what do these 20% have that the other 80% don't and then they exclusively look for customers that

909
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:20.480
are that 20% and then they say no to everyone else and so what then what happens is if the sales

910
01:11:20.480 --> 01:11:25.120
velocity remains unchanged they 5x the business so sometimes you'll make more money just by saying no

911
01:11:25.120 --> 01:11:28.640
so that you can have the capacity to say yes to the few guys that matter more and if you're not

912
01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:32.960
getting more of those people then solving that problem rather than saying like how do I keep getting

913
01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:36.800
how do I how do I polish a turd instead of going from that perspective just saying like maybe I

914
01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:40.960
just should not try to polish turds because it's still a turd right and like how do I get the people

915
01:11:40.960 --> 01:11:45.440
who are much better companies to be attracted to my business and if you have a customer list that

916
01:11:45.440 --> 01:11:49.840
people aspire to be like then you'll get more and more people like that's where that's like kind

917
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:56.560
of the branding side for you guys which is how can I associate with better quality brands so that

918
01:11:56.560 --> 01:12:01.040
other better quality brands realize that what we do is legit you can try and optimize the

919
01:12:01.040 --> 01:12:04.480
shit out of something but like usually it's the big obvious stuff and we don't look at the big

920
01:12:04.480 --> 01:12:07.840
obvious stuff because they're actually harder problems to solve and they take longer but it's where

921
01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:12.640
the most value is unlocked what's the ideal frequency and the topics of coaching calls that would

922
01:12:12.640 --> 01:12:18.160
increase the overall performance of centers and closures so I would say it's less about the topics

923
01:12:18.160 --> 01:12:22.320
of the calls and more about what you're training repeatedly and what you're rewarding so sales is

924
01:12:22.320 --> 01:12:26.880
one of those really interesting businesses or like departments that you can see very clearly

925
01:12:26.880 --> 01:12:29.920
like you guys are probably seeing different sales teams and they have very different cultures and

926
01:12:29.920 --> 01:12:34.080
so it'd be like what are the cultures that create the highest performance in our experience you

927
01:12:34.080 --> 01:12:37.680
know you can go on either extreme you can have a very punishment driven culture which is very

928
01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:41.360
individualistic or you can have a very team driven culture which is typically reward based what

929
01:12:41.360 --> 01:12:46.800
you want to reward is adherence to the script not closing like and that's a huge shift for

930
01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:50.640
most sales teams if you reward adheres to the script then what happens is you get everyone to follow

931
01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:54.400
the script now if they aren't closing they need to change the script but it's much easier to

932
01:12:54.400 --> 01:12:59.280
change the script once you've taught adherence then it is to have a bunch of lone wolfs who do

933
01:12:59.280 --> 01:13:03.520
anything they can to close the deal which then impacts your brand so like a really simple you know

934
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:07.360
tactic we did at one of our chains was we just said cool we'll give them five bucks if they follow

935
01:13:07.360 --> 01:13:11.040
the script whether they close the now mind you the tickets are smaller right it's just higher

936
01:13:11.040 --> 01:13:15.360
higher volume we'll give them five bucks if they follow the script and if they close or they don't

937
01:13:15.360 --> 01:13:19.280
close they get paid either way you know what's interesting the thing they're most curious about

938
01:13:19.280 --> 01:13:22.240
when they send their managers is do I get the five bucks for the adherence even though they make

939
01:13:22.240 --> 01:13:27.440
three times more on the close so we still we still give them benefits for closing but they want to

940
01:13:27.440 --> 01:13:31.200
know whether they got the approval of the manager the five dollars actually matters less then the

941
01:13:31.200 --> 01:13:36.320
approval from the manager saying you did a good job the five dollars is more of a token and if you

942
01:13:36.320 --> 01:13:39.520
can imagine because you everybody here is sold before if you got on a call and you knew that you

943
01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:43.680
could get paid no matter what just for following the process it takes some of the pressure off like

944
01:13:43.680 --> 01:13:46.960
think about like you happen to like I'm just gonna make sure that I get my bone no matter what

945
01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:50.480
on on the adherence but guess what happens when everybody hears to the scripts you fucking close

946
01:13:50.480 --> 01:13:57.360
more because sales is one of the biggest issues we have false positives where someone goes rogue

947
01:13:57.360 --> 01:14:02.480
and then closes and basically gets reinforced for doing the wrong thing and then they start doing

948
01:14:02.480 --> 01:14:05.760
the thing that they did that one time that worked and then it doesn't work over and over again

949
01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:10.320
so they changed the behavior they learn the wrong thing and so then you have to course correct

950
01:14:10.320 --> 01:14:15.760
right that's why sales like it's all about adherence and then then we can be really strategic

951
01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:21.280
about really making sure the script is beautiful and crisp and concise and we just and we just

952
01:14:21.280 --> 01:14:25.680
drill the team on adherence the big topic I want to do is how to sell emerging to you don't sell

953
01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:30.480
emerging tech you you it's it's selling the plane flavors the vacation if I could tell you that

954
01:14:30.480 --> 01:14:35.280
your financials would be absolutely accurate and updated in real time would you want that how much

955
01:14:35.280 --> 01:14:39.040
would you be willing to pay compared to what you currently pay a lot more great what if I said I

956
01:14:39.040 --> 01:14:42.640
could do it for less than what you're currently paying are you interested great this is what I need

957
01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:46.720
the fact that I'm using AI is a relevant just tell the outcome and then you'd not really don't

958
01:14:46.720 --> 01:14:51.840
care AI is great for YouTube clickbait but for for sales it's a relevant that was like one of the

959
01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:57.440
mayors wanted to get it up what else you want to do for the next 16 we must be getting a ton of

960
01:14:57.440 --> 01:15:01.040
businesses and she's some a lot of AI businesses that are coming across your disc right now at

961
01:15:01.040 --> 01:15:04.800
a position.com what are the things that's making they're sort of jumping out at you and what are

962
01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:08.480
the sort of commonality between things that make you really oh well that that seems to have some

963
01:15:08.480 --> 01:15:14.080
kind of staying pal. The best majority of AI businesses that I look at are dark shit and so they're

964
01:15:14.080 --> 01:15:18.800
either they're not real AI which is 99% of them they're basically just built on chat you be

965
01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:22.720
tea which is fine there's nothing wrong with that but I'm just like let's not claim that we're

966
01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:26.640
creating a GI on the other hand it's it's people who would have no business acumen and so they're

967
01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:30.160
like it's totally different like the the normal laws of business don't apply it's like they have

968
01:15:30.160 --> 01:15:34.560
always applied and they will always apply because they're just how business works right there's

969
01:15:35.040 --> 01:15:40.400
the vast majority people that I see in that I do think that AI implementation for mainstream

970
01:15:40.400 --> 01:15:47.920
is an enormous opportunity so AIifying if you will and I I don't think I think your first conclusions

971
01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:52.640
right which is being the custom guy is tough you know I mean it's just it's it's all things to all

972
01:15:52.640 --> 01:15:56.320
people which is nothing to know on if I'm talking to the audience now if you guys want to get into

973
01:15:56.320 --> 01:16:01.920
this world what you want to do is look at an industry or an avatar that you understand well

974
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:05.760
and so one of the things that like why a combinator and some of these great like you know

975
01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:11.120
legendary investors look at is how much time a founder has suffered and lived through a problem

976
01:16:11.120 --> 01:16:15.040
I can talk about breathing because I've had two nose surgeries I've been falling asleep on my

977
01:16:15.040 --> 01:16:18.880
hands since I was in eighth grade so that I could breathe so like I've lived with the problem for

978
01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:23.760
a long time and I've tried many different types of solutions so I have tons of industry knowledge

979
01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:28.320
if I were to start a company like that if you have a job right now or have had any type of job

980
01:16:28.320 --> 01:16:33.600
you've worked in a business that's a great baseline of background knowledge that's difficult to

981
01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:37.520
just jump like it even if you were a server at a restaurant for two years you still will probably

982
01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:41.840
know more about restaurants than 99% of people who aren't in the restaurant industry like I don't

983
01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:44.880
know anything about how restaurants work as I've just never really worked at one you could probably

984
01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:49.680
be aware of because you now also have this understanding of what AI can do to think okay there's

985
01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:54.320
a hundred problems in a restaurant is there one very specific problem that I can solve well

986
01:16:54.320 --> 01:16:58.480
and it's very similar between restaurants because as soon as you get the point A to point B you can

987
01:16:58.480 --> 01:17:03.040
create the clear value prop and you can message around that getting extremely specific which is

988
01:17:03.040 --> 01:17:08.320
I think what you were saying that you give the advice to is super smart and it makes the problem

989
01:17:08.320 --> 01:17:12.880
set really narrow to solve so you can become an expert that's an inch wide and a mile deep

990
01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:16.880
by the exact same thing the reason that most people don't do that when they're starting out is

991
01:17:16.880 --> 01:17:21.040
because you don't have enough demand you have so few leads that come to you that you're like why

992
01:17:21.200 --> 01:17:25.680
I mean should I need to pay rent this month and I only got four leads this month and all four

993
01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:30.880
are completely different but I need the money and so I get it redeploy that cash into getting really

994
01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:35.920
concentrated on your marketing which is what offers and leads is all about so that you can find

995
01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:41.040
that specific avatar that you can over and over again repeat which is also I referrals are so strong

996
01:17:41.040 --> 01:17:45.280
because if you do a good job they will send you other people just like them the question is yes I

997
01:17:45.280 --> 01:17:50.240
can pick a niche to do this AI automation I can build AI solutions and sort of targeted one but

998
01:17:50.240 --> 01:17:53.600
what is the opportunity that I should target within the niche and that comes down to either

999
01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:58.560
as you said industry experience that you already have or sort of be what we've said is finding some

1000
01:17:58.560 --> 01:18:02.960
sort of partner within the industry so we say you can either try to pay them for the time as a

1001
01:18:02.960 --> 01:18:06.800
consultant or you can just message enough people and say hey look I'm looking to bring these kind

1002
01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:10.560
of solutions to the industry would you be willing and working working on this with me I need a

1003
01:18:10.560 --> 01:18:14.160
little bit of your specific knowledge but in exchange I'll create this thing and you can refer

1004
01:18:14.160 --> 01:18:17.600
it you can basically have first dibs on sharing it to your network and you can make some money that

1005
01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:21.600
way so yeah I definitely wouldn't do it as a consulting relationship the the thing that you're

1006
01:18:21.600 --> 01:18:26.880
going to be selling is the product and so having a consultant who's the one who's in charge of the

1007
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:31.920
primary value that you're driving is not a good idea and so you'd want somebody who's long-term

1008
01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:36.160
incentivized to continually improve the product continue to innovate the products see the things

1009
01:18:36.160 --> 01:18:39.840
that are coming around the corner to keep it up to date make it better make it any stronger etc

1010
01:18:39.840 --> 01:18:43.600
it really just comes down to how to have a normal business partnership so all the normal rules

1011
01:18:43.600 --> 01:18:47.360
of business supply and this person has some specific knowledge you don't have and you should

1012
01:18:47.360 --> 01:18:50.560
ideally have specific knowledge they don't have they should be asking the question like why do I

1013
01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:54.320
partner with the people in your community if I'm an AI developer right if you're trying to figure

1014
01:18:54.320 --> 01:18:59.600
out which of the problems to solve in an industry it's just value created times ease of implementation

1015
01:18:59.600 --> 01:19:04.160
that's the equation which if you chuck it up its number of potential customers times gross profit

1016
01:19:04.160 --> 01:19:08.400
per customer if I have six different problems I could potentially solve which one has way more

1017
01:19:08.400 --> 01:19:12.320
people who have it which ones easier to do which one unlocks the most value one thing that we

1018
01:19:12.320 --> 01:19:16.560
starting to see as us ourselves actually trying to build one of these these AI automation agencies

1019
01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:21.040
now AI development companies well is that by building a development team that is capable

1020
01:19:21.040 --> 01:19:25.600
or what is your take and your experience with how important that development resource is I mean

1021
01:19:25.600 --> 01:19:29.520
it's sure your event you must know working with developers can be a complete plane but having

1022
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:33.920
them in-house and having a really good team to rely on as you shoot for those bigger opportunities

1023
01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:37.200
can be key what my monster experience being like this and how important do you think that

1024
01:19:37.200 --> 01:19:44.640
development resources when you're going for this bigger place very okay I mean we were thinking

1025
01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:48.560
the same things as glad to know you agree on it it's the product like if you're in a service

1026
01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:54.560
business the quality of the people that you use to provide the service is the product and so those

1027
01:19:54.560 --> 01:19:58.960
people usually want to be compensated well because if they are really good then the places that

1028
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:03.920
they're coming from will want to pay more to keep them and so you have to give them a great

1029
01:20:03.920 --> 01:20:09.040
place to work and a financial incentive or some upside that they get exposed to that they

1030
01:20:09.040 --> 01:20:12.720
wouldn't otherwise like you want them to feel like owners and the best way to do that is for

1031
01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:17.840
them to actually be owners if you're trying to get on the cutting edge of technology then actually

1032
01:20:17.840 --> 01:20:21.760
having the people who are good at that is the business well that is a great resource to have

1033
01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:26.480
I really kill a marketing team under your belt but the development side of things I tend to find

1034
01:20:26.480 --> 01:20:30.960
at least now experience has been a hot thing for us to create and you don't know it like it's

1035
01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:33.680
easier for you to do the marketing stuff because you're good at it so you know if someone's

1036
01:20:33.680 --> 01:20:36.320
full of shit on the interview you just don't know if anyone's full of shit on the interview

1037
01:20:36.320 --> 01:20:40.000
because you have no context the most important hire which is why I say this is you need a

1038
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:44.480
technical co-founder you need somebody who has a real stake in making sure that the people

1039
01:20:44.480 --> 01:20:47.760
are coming in are actually good not that you're checking a box and saying hey I have 14 people

1040
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:52.400
in my development team anybody in the in the true high tech world knows that one amazing developer

1041
01:20:52.400 --> 01:20:57.600
is more available than a hundred B developers this is the hardest part of business is hiring people

1042
01:20:57.600 --> 01:21:02.000
who are really good at something without knowing the in-depth knowledge and that's where like

1043
01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:06.320
leveraging somebody who might not want to work for you that you do think is brilliant to at least

1044
01:21:06.320 --> 01:21:11.280
interview or double check on how good they are is really valuable that's where like building a

1045
01:21:11.280 --> 01:21:17.840
network becomes important and getting even some tests like of aptitude for them to take so that

1046
01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:22.080
you can at least get some sort of baseline but it's all going to be about how skilled that person is

1047
01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:26.960
because ideally if they were as good as you are at marketing then you guys would probably have

1048
01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:31.280
a really successful business we've been fortunate enough to to find that find that magical sort

1049
01:21:31.280 --> 01:21:35.360
of technical co-founder so we're starting to get them really well compensated both getting

1050
01:21:35.360 --> 01:21:39.200
anything as well so we are off to the race and that's completely changed up as I can't even

1051
01:21:39.200 --> 01:21:44.080
trust for anyone of you in here that that key hire is just a complete game I'm sure you've had

1052
01:21:44.080 --> 01:21:47.360
it Alex and your business we've just found that right person and just completely changed the

1053
01:21:47.360 --> 01:21:50.560
all right appreciate you guys thank you and appreciate the community thank you guys for showing

1054
01:21:50.560 --> 01:22:03.120
out hopefully the book serves you guys well so do you feel like in general do you think that's uh