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For some of his nation, fun podcast with Ryan Danny Moran of Capitalism.com.

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We broke down marketing promises and delivering on high ticket offers.

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I think it was a fun one that you guys will dig.

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He also has an e-commerce slant for those of you guys who sell physical products.

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We went into more specifics around that stuff, but I think you guys will enjoy and for

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everybody else, also enjoy it.

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The more someone pays, the more invested they are, the more invested they are, the better

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the results they get, the better results they get, the more convicted your sales team

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is.

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The more people they sell at higher prices, the more profit you have to reinvest in the

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fulfillment to get more clients results and around and around you go.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers, how to make more

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customers, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons we have learned

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along the way.

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I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

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Good evening, friends and neighbors and Hormoses.

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Tonight's special, we brought out the good stuff tonight, Alex and I go deep when Ryan

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has whiskey.

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We won't tell you about the last time we had whiskey together, it got a little bit

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out of hand.

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Alex, I'm so pumped for tonight.

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I have this weird energy about me, like no one wants to be around me, children are afraid

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of me.

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I'm so pumped to talk to you, dude, you're blowing up for anybody who doesn't know Alex.

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The thing that is amazing to me about him is he and God have a contract where God is

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like, look, Alex, whatever you want, just don't hurt me.

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That's what happens is Alex is just like, listen, I want to be the world's most jack

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billionaire.

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And if you could throw a million YouTube subscribers my way, it wouldn't hurt you and God is like,

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all right, all right.

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And then Alex just like, it just happens and he's like, volume, volume.

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So dude, you have, you have the number one book in its category and you haven't even announced

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it yet.

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You're getting like 3000 subs a day on YouTube.

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You have one and a half percent body fat.

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What's it like?

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12 inch personality.

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It's great being friends with you.

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You always make me feel great about myself.

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Well, give it a minute.

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For any of you who saw my email recently or as I said, I have friends who make me feel

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like the fat kid, I was talking about Alex because I would just go to be a pastor and God

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does not listen to me like he listens to Alex.

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So we're just going to go ahead and jump in guys.

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I have a total blatant pitch and ask tonight and it's going to cost you ladies in general.

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Let me tell you Alex, we all know the secret reason that you really put out a ton of content

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on the internet and it's because you need to get rich selling 99 cent books, right?

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And I know you get like 35% of that from Kindle.

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So you're like, I know that's the real reason why you're doing all of this.

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So look, the man's got to eat.

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He's got to feed these biceps and we have a book.

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It costs a whole 99 cents and you're going to have to go all the way to Amazon to get it.

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But this is what I'm going to ask all of you to do by the end of tonight.

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In fact, you should start doing it now.

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You should go to Amazon.com search for Alex Hormosi hit the buy button and review the book

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once you've read it like review the book.

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We all know how this works.

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You are most of your Amazon sellers.

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You're going to leave a review a good one for Alex's book because I can guarantee you that

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it's going to be the best book that you read all year.

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Best book I've read in a decade.

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So unless you're 10 times better than me, it's going to be the best book you read all

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year.

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So Alex, I've told you this privately, but the thing that I admire about you and the

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thing that is so impressive about the fact that you have, well, your total revenue is like

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$100 million on your main businesses.

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You have businesses that give you 10% of top line just to be an advisor.

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And this book is going to go nuts.

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They all have the thing in common of your emphasis is on really quality product.

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And that's not how most internet entrepreneurs approach things.

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Could you comment on your approach going into any new business?

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So I thought it would be appropriate for a book that was about the product to be a good

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product in and of itself.

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And so I'd have to spend an inordinate amount of time on the book to make sure that it was

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really good so that I could be second, hold up to the standard that I was trying to tell

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people that it matters.

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Yeah.

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So if I'm looking at a business, the first thing that we'll usually do is look at like

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what is the value that you were providing, right, like what what is the amount of value

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that's been provided to the end user?

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And is there a way that we can repackage that value to enhance it?

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And the repackaging can happen in a variety of ways.

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And I go through that in the book in terms of like, can we do more, can we make things happen

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faster, can we make things happen easier, can we do it with less sacrifice, can we, you

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know, those types of things that we can recombine it, and that's in a real way.

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But then on top of each of those things, we think like, can we do that in just a perceptual

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shift?

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Like is there a way that we can change the way they're perceiving the value that they

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are getting from the product?

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And a lot of times those are almost more valuable in a real way than even changing things

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about the product itself.

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Would you, would you comment a little bit, what do you mean that the perception can be

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more valuable?

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So I'll give you, I'll give everybody here like a simple example.

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So there are things besides the actual thing you're delivering that create value around

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it.

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And so if I were to say, Hey, we have two surgeons and you want to get plastic surgery

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for what up reason?

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And for one surgeon, it's their first surgery they've ever done and another surgeon,

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it's their 10,000th surgery, which of these would you value more?

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Now mind you, it might take the first guy twice as long to do the surgery compared to

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the second guy.

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So you're going to get half the time of the 10,000 rep guy compared to the one, the first

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time rep guy.

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But you still, even though this guy's going to take half as much time with you, you'd

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still probably be willing to pay the 10,000 guy more.

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And that is because perceived likelihood of achievement is one of the things that creates

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value in a product.

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And so if we can beg these different lenses or layers into the value that we're providing,

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then we can, without actually changing our product itself, make it more valuable.

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Yeah, I have an old mentor who used to describe this as the magician versus the mule.

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The mule is paid to go out and work all the time, gets kicked when it stops.

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And the magician goes, field is plowed.

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And we overemphasize the effort or the time going into it sometimes when we're the provider.

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But in the user's eyes, they just want the field plowed.

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And one of the things that reading your book reframed for me was that I get intellectually

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the idea of developing a product that is customer centric.

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But in reality, my actions have always mapped that of a marketer.

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It's been, okay, how do I make this dance on the page?

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Better than how do I create the absolute best fulfillment possible?

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And when that's the foundation of what you are asking, then marketing and sales is still

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important, but it's really easy to do.

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One of the things that I really love about the way you advertise is your headlines.

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You don't have to make them sexy because they're already sexy because they're what the

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person wants.

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So yeah, big believers in marketing the actual, the product itself rather than the promise

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and letting that take care of it.

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So for everyone who's listening right now, we're really big on tracking the data of

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client success on averages.

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You probably don't see a lot of internet marketers, for example, saying our average client

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makes X in Y period of time.

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Like no one says that because most people's average client is zero, right?

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Well, rather than, I'd say the median client would be zero, right?

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And so for us, it's actually a KPI that we track within the business.

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And that's one of the KPIs that we drive towards, which is like, how can we get the

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average revenue collected per client up within the first 14 days, the first 30 days,

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first 60 days.

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And so we track all those things because we know that the more money we make our customers,

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the more everything else happens.

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And some of the truths, there are certain truths that things that you discover, at least

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that I feel like I've discovered as we've been on this journey, it's like the more money

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that we make other people, the more money we make, period.

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And I think that just putting that hat on has been, I mean, that's what this book is.

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Like I know that giving away the book for 99 cents in a course that accompanies it.

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Like I'm sure I could sell it and I could sell it a coaching program and I could do

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all that, but like I don't want to do that.

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And I enjoyed making it.

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And so that was kind of the point of doing it.

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One of the things that you say in just the description of the book is that you are out

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earning, you know, the CEO is a publicly traded companies without having upsell flows that

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were dialed in without likeness, without sending emails to your list, you know, without

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doing a bunch of complicated marketing, would you comment a little bit about that?

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Because like you're in our world and like entrepreneurial, you're most famous in like

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the funnel hacking, one-click upsell, like that world, but you use that as a tool, it's

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not your business.

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You haven't had a lot of that dialed in and you've still made tens of millions of dollars.

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So would you comment on that?

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Yeah, we're embarrassingly bad at most things.

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I think most people, at least when I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, I think one of

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the biggest skills that's important is learning how to discern priority.

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Like what is important?

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Like there's so much information, right?

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So it's like all the stuff's coming out, it's like what is most important?

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We have such limited resources, like as entrepreneurs, such limited resources, capital, and the

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biggest one just being attention.

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We have such limited attention for ourselves, but just as importantly or more importantly

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our teams.

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And so it's like, I might only be able to move one or two rocks for this year, you know,

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I mean like really, like big important things.

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And you kind of have to commit to whatever that rock is, and if you can't pick the rock

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then you move zero rocks for it, right?

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And so people are like, you move nine things where it's like, yeah, but you didn't actually

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get any of them done correctly.

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So it's like, you have to really, and I think developing the software companies would

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taught me a lot about this, but it's like, you only have, and we have to commit that

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this is the one thing that we're going to do, and we're actually going to do it well.

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And I think picking that is one of the hardest things, but if you pick well, then a lot of

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other things kind of take care of themselves.

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And so like coming from the market or world, the reason a lot of people cap out is because

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they have zero word of mouth.

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If anything they have negative word of mouth, like literally word of mouth works against

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them.

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I mean, we even talk about, like in the marketing world, just like fighting refunds, you

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know, you're just like, you do all the market, like all the sales on the front end, you're

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like, hoping people don't refund, and you're saying, I mean, like, or if you're just really

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good to your customers, you get a ton of word of mouth and no one refunds anyway.

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Yeah, I mean, we do a lot of stuff that's kind of unheard of, you know, we do, we run

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free trials, like anybody can sign up for our Morgan for free, like, you don't have to

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pay today.

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And yet we still get 45% of our clients prepay the entire thing within the first 30 days.

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They choose, they don't have to.

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And so it's like, you have somebody who can try something, they can choose not to buy

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it.

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And not only that, they choose to prepay the entire thing, you know, within the first

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month when they have the option not to.

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And I think that just, it just speaks to like, how can we, how can we onboard customers

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the right way?

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How can we activate them?

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You know, what are the leading indicators we know that are going to create a successful

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customer?

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And how can we reverse engineer that?

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How do we know that with that looks at a day 30 and what is a little bit, day 60 and

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what is a little bit, day 90?

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And then when we focus on those things, we can drive up our lifetime gross profit per

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customer so far beyond what anyone else in our space can do, it makes the marketing as

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ugly as mine is still wildly profitable.

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And so I mean, one of the claims in the book that you heard is that, you know, we have

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a 36 to one lifetime return on advertising and right now it's actually a little higher

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than that.

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And so for every dollar we spend, we get, you know, almost $40 back and that's been

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over my entire career.

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So that's not like this one campaign that we talk about because I, like, sent a DM

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to someone that, you know, like, follows and I made a $4,000 sale, that's every dollar

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that we spent.

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And so I think it's because we focus on the backend and really seeing, how can we deliver

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this thing faster?

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How can we make it more convenient for them?

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How can we deliver it in the channel or medium that they want to consume it in?

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How can we, how can we do this so that we can decrease the effort and sacrifice on their

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behalf?

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So the stress that they have to go through, what are the, what are the poops that they normally

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would have to jump through?

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How many of those hoops can we jump through ourselves?

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You know, how can we increase their perception of, of likely to have achievement because

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if we can get somebody who's more convicted, that what we're going to do is going to work,

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then they're actually in a very real way going to receive more value.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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And I want to point out something, Alex, what does, before one of your target clients

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meet to you, what is their average income?

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$2,943 a month.

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That was very specific.

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I just know the average.

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So it's like 36 per year.

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So like, all right.

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So everybody, listen, Alex is average client, but when they, when they sign up with Alex,

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his customer makes on average $36,000 per year, Alex, what is your least expensive product

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cost?

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Actually, actually, for those of you who are watching live, what in the comments, what

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you think Alex is lowest, his self-liquidating offer, his front-end offer, what's your

241
00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:27.700
buyer?

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What is his lowest least expensive product cost?

243
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I want to see.

244
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Tell me.

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That average client earns 36,000.

246
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All right.

247
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We got $1,000, $10,000, $9,47, a free book, $99, $1,999, $4,000.

248
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All right, Alex, what, what is your front-end offer cost?

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$20.

250
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$20?

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

253
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$20,000.

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$20,000.

255
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$20,000.

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

258
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$20,000.

259
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$20,000.

260
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$20,000.

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

264
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$20,000.

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

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$20,000.

270
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$20,000.

271
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I can't sell, I can't sell my candle for $40.

272
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Now, Alex's client makes $36,000.

273
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His lowest price product costs $16,000.

274
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And you just heard him say that after they join, they voluntarily pay it off early.

275
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Why?

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Because the entire product is focused on getting wins and results for the customer.

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And what's your highest tier program, Alex?

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It's 42,000.

279
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42,000.

280
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42,000.

281
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Yeah.

282
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And you have quite the take rate, if I remember correctly.

283
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:05.980
Yeah.

284
00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:08.980
I think we have, I think we're at 60%.

285
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60%.

286
00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:10.980
Yeah.

287
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And these people are strong armed and wrestled into upgrading, or they choose voluntarily.

288
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And we let them try it out before they can choose to pay for it.

289
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Okay.

290
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You guys seeing this, the entire structure of how Alex thinks is how do we remove all of the barriers for the client, for the customer to get the result that they want.

291
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And if we do that really well by removing as much friction as possible, then they will voluntarily line up to give us money.

292
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That's kind of how business works.

293
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And that's why Alex can spend money on advertising to put people into his pipeline and win and beat everybody else.

294
00:16:55.980 --> 00:17:00.980
You might remember incorrectly that nobody was doing this when you started.

295
00:17:00.980 --> 00:17:03.980
And now everybody is trying to go after the same market.

296
00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:04.980
I remember remembering that, right?

297
00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:07.980
Yeah, I don't think there were many Jim Gurus at the time when we came into the marketplace.

298
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I think the one guy who was selling a high ticket course was selling it for $5,000.

299
00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:15.980
That was like the high leader at the time.

300
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And most guys were selling $500 a month Facebook ads like that for you stuff.

301
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Like four Jim owners.

302
00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:23.980
Yeah.

303
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And you just, you just came in totally owned to the marketplace and then a bunch of people copied you.

304
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There's people out there who are teaching it and claiming to be successful at it and then you look at their books and they're not so successful at it.

305
00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:40.980
And you're winning because your clients are getting results more than anything else.

306
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That my friends is how you put together a hundred million dollar offer, which is the name of Alex's book, which you should go buy on Amazon right now for 99 cents.

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Alex obviously needs the money.

308
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He obviously needs you to go buy this book.

309
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And I need you to go leave a review on Amazon because you know how this game works.

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Real quick guys, you guys already know that I don't run any ads on this and I don't sell anything.

311
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And so the only ask that I can ever have are you guys that you help me spread the words we cannot more entrepreneurs.

312
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Make more money, feed their families, make better products and have better experiences for their employees and customers.

313
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And the only way we do that is if you can rate and review and share this podcast.

314
00:18:26.980 --> 00:18:30.980
So the single thing that I asked you to do is you can just leave review, take 10 seconds or one type of the thumb.

315
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It would mean the absolute world to me and more importantly it may change the world for someone else.

316
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Alex, I was hoping we could spend a minute or two talking about the ethics of charging $20,000 to someone who makes 36 grand.

317
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Because you lay this out.

318
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I love the story you tell about your dad.

319
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Would you tell that story and explain how you think about going high ticket?

320
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Yeah. So I guess I can try and tell it half as well as I do in the book when I had lots of practice and got the words right.

321
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But I had just posted a picture of our gym wards event in the sprue COVID.

322
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And I think we had 800, sorry, 700-ish people in attendance.

323
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And I posted it and I sent a picture of my dad or he messaged me, I can't remember what happened.

324
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And he was like, hey, I thought this was supposed to be the meeting of like your really highest level group, which is the $42,000 year group.

325
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And I was like, yeah, it is.

326
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And all of a sudden he calls me up and he's extremely concerned.

327
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And he's like, do they know that they're getting billed that much?

328
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I was like, yes, they're aware.

329
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I'm not magically siphoning money from their accounts.

330
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I was like, yes, they're aware.

331
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And then he asked, is that legal to which I respond to yes, it's legal.

332
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And he was like, well, and I could tell that there was this pause of like major concern.

333
00:19:54.980 --> 00:19:59.980
And I was like, all right, if I could make you $239,000 extra this year pops.

334
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I was like, would you pay me $42,000?

335
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And he was like, well, what would I have to do?

336
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And I was like, you'd have to work 15 hours a week for it.

337
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And he was like, okay, well, how long would it take?

338
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And I was like, it would take 11 months to make the entire entire money back.

339
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And he was like, okay, would I have to pay for it up front?

340
00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:19.980
And I was like, no, you could pay for it as you started making it.

341
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And he was like, didn't you?

342
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I would do it.

343
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And I was like, and that's why they do it too.

344
00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:29.980
And so for perspective, like as much as Ryan talks about like the numbers,

345
00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:32.980
and a lot of people have talked about our numbers out of context

346
00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:36.980
and explained our success without actually being in any way associated with our company

347
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as it's the funnel, it's the marketing, it's the whatever.

348
00:20:39.980 --> 00:20:44.980
The client that we work with makes an extra $239,000 top line revenue.

349
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They on average triple their profit.

350
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It's 3.1x their profit.

351
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They take their take home income, including our fees, net of our fees

352
00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:55.980
from $2950 a month to $8900 a month.

353
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And so you're taking $730,000 a month,

354
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and so you're taking $730,000 a year to $100,000 a year on average,

355
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:03.980
meaning half the people make more money than that.

356
00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:10.980
And so yes, we charge $42,000 a year in order to help someone go from $36,000 to $100,000 on average.

357
00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:14.980
But I think that that's more than reasonable considering what we are efficacy at doing that.

358
00:21:14.980 --> 00:21:18.980
And we purposely niche down because we understand it's pricing

359
00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:23.980
and we know that we can provide a better solution than anyone else can for a specific avatar.

360
00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:26.980
So it's like, if you are this specific type of person,

361
00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:29.980
you run this specific type of facility and you have this specific problem,

362
00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:32.980
we can solve it and we've done it 4,000 times.

363
00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:37.980
So it's very unlikely that it's been chance at this point to hit the however many other things.

364
00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:38.980
It's possible.

365
00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:40.980
It's impossible.

366
00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:41.980
It's not possible.

367
00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:42.980
It's not probable.

368
00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:47.980
And so that's kind of the overarching scheme, which is like everyone always looks at like,

369
00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:49.980
what's the trick it's selling this more?

370
00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:53.980
But like there isn't a trick because at a certain point, most people on here are probably

371
00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:55.980
have some level of conscious, right?

372
00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:58.980
Like you have some morality, you have some level of ethics.

373
00:21:58.980 --> 00:21:59.980
Not me.

374
00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:01.980
Not Ryan, but most people, right?

375
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:03.980
And so you have this level of ethics.

376
00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:08.980
And so what ends up happening though is that if you don't actually deliver to the vast majority of the customers that you have,

377
00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:10.980
you will self-sabotage.

378
00:22:10.980 --> 00:22:11.980
You will stop selling.

379
00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:13.980
You will give yourself reasons.

380
00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:15.980
Or your sales team will give you reasons.

381
00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:19.980
The customer support team will give you reasons as to why we shouldn't continue this business.

382
00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:22.980
And so like you have to sell yourself first.

383
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:25.980
And the only way to do that is to truly be convicted.

384
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:27.980
And like the thing is, you can tell people you're convicted.

385
00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:34.980
But like only you know if you're putting 100% of the effort that you could possibly put in to making the product better than it currently is.

386
00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:37.980
Again, Alex is speaking for himself.

387
00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:39.980
Not all of us have consciousness here.

388
00:22:39.980 --> 00:22:41.980
I am a Johnson and Johnson shill.

389
00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:45.980
This live is brought to you by Johnson and Johnson.

390
00:22:45.980 --> 00:22:50.980
They sponsored this for me to shill out everybody getting the vaccine.

391
00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:55.980
Alex, I wanted you to comment on, for those of you who do have a conscience.

392
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I wanted you to comment about the actual ethics of charging high ticket.

393
00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:04.980
Because in your book you talk about.

394
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:07.980
I don't remember if you said this or if this is my own words.

395
00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:08.980
Yeah.

396
00:23:08.980 --> 00:23:14.980
But charging a lot of money is the most loving thing that you can do for your customer or client.

397
00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:15.980
Yeah.

398
00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:17.980
Would you speak a little bit to that?

399
00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:19.980
So I've always been a premium service guy.

400
00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:22.980
So even when I owned my chain of gyms way back in the day before I switched to doing what we do now.

401
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:24.980
And now we have our portfolio companies.

402
00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:26.980
Because I want yourself from a place of certainty.

403
00:23:26.980 --> 00:23:28.980
I want to sell from a place of conviction.

404
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:33.980
And the certainty that I want to have is not that I am certain that the person will achieve the result.

405
00:23:33.980 --> 00:23:36.980
Because I cannot be certain that someone is going to eat the food that I tell them to eat.

406
00:23:36.980 --> 00:23:38.980
I'm not certain that someone can go to the gym.

407
00:23:38.980 --> 00:23:42.980
But I can be certain that I'm the best chance they have at being successful.

408
00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:44.980
And so that's the pivot that you have to make internally.

409
00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:46.980
Am I truly, am I certain?

410
00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:48.980
Because that's where the certainty will come from.

411
00:23:48.980 --> 00:23:51.980
Because anybody who says there's certain that someone's going to get a result is lying to themselves.

412
00:23:51.980 --> 00:23:55.980
If there's anything that the client has to do and most people are in a coaching space or education space.

413
00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:57.980
Whatever it is, the client has to do something.

414
00:23:57.980 --> 00:23:58.980
They have to do something.

415
00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:01.980
I can teach Spanish and some people are not going to learn Spanish.

416
00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:03.980
I can be the best Spanish teacher in the world.

417
00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:04.980
It's going to happen.

418
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:08.980
And so the question is, Spanish is a scam or are there bad students?

419
00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:10.980
They're also bad teachers.

420
00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:13.980
I talk at length about price in the first third of the book.

421
00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:16.980
But I'll give you a couple of examples that I think might drive this home.

422
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:19.980
So first off from a value perspective.

423
00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:22.980
People will value things in and of itself.

424
00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:25.980
Like I talked about there's different layers of value.

425
00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:28.980
Things that you can change outside of the product that will inherently make it more valuable.

426
00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:31.980
So they did a blind taste test with three wines.

427
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:33.980
A cheap wine, a middle wine, an expensive wine.

428
00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:36.980
And the taste testers asked the people, you know, break the wines.

429
00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:43.980
And they concurrently rated the wines, you know, better, you know, bad middle good according to price from, you know, from cheap, expensive, whatever.

430
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:49.980
But what ended up being the truth is that they revealed to the people that all three wines were the same.

431
00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:55.980
And so in a very real way, price provides value to a prospect.

432
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:57.980
And that was on a consumer good.

433
00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:02.980
Now when you, you can put that on steroids when it comes to an educational product or something that has to do with training.

434
00:25:02.980 --> 00:25:05.980
There is more lure around expensive things.

435
00:25:05.980 --> 00:25:08.980
People want to buy things, people become more convicted.

436
00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:10.980
The more they invested, they become.

437
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:12.980
So people pay who pay attention, right?

438
00:25:12.980 --> 00:25:15.980
And the more they pay, the more they pay attention, right?

439
00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:16.980
That's right.

440
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:19.980
So the idea around this is that it is more ethical.

441
00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:28.980
If I say that I am trying to best serve my clients and I'm claiming that this is the best chance that they have at being successful,

442
00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:34.980
then I must use every lever in my arsenal to get them invested in their own success.

443
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:37.980
And so I call this the virtuous cycle of price.

444
00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:45.980
But the more someone pays, the more invested they are, the more invested they are, the better the results they get,

445
00:25:45.980 --> 00:25:58.980
the more convicted your sales team is, the more people they sell, at higher prices, the more profit you have to reinvest in the fulfillment to get more clients results and around and around you go.

446
00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:02.980
And then on top of that, for you as the business owner, you become more convicted.

447
00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:08.980
Your self-worth improved, the impact you feel like you're making increases, and you continue to have this virtuous cycle.

448
00:26:08.980 --> 00:26:15.980
On the flip side, and oh, and as a final one, people who pay the most are also the lowest maintenance, easiest to do with.

449
00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:17.980
But if you flip that entire equation, it's like...

450
00:26:17.980 --> 00:26:19.980
That's why you priced your book so high at 99 cents.

451
00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:22.980
You do not want annoying readers.

452
00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:25.980
Yeah, I just don't want annoying readers at all.

453
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:30.980
The flip side of this is like if you cut your prices all of a sudden you have less money for fulfillment.

454
00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:32.980
People have less emotionally invested.

455
00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:36.980
You attract the worst quality customers. The conviction of your sales team drops.

456
00:26:36.980 --> 00:26:40.980
You have less profit left to provide a better product, etc.

457
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:42.980
And so it's a virtuous or vicious cycle of price.

458
00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:54.980
And if we are claiming to be ethical individuals and we are claiming that we're going to create a product that's going to have the best chance of getting someone successful, then we must anchor in such a way that we're going to get them the most invested so that they are successful.

459
00:26:54.980 --> 00:27:04.980
My favorite thing about all of this is you having the conviction and the certainty to be able to sell something well or to sell something at all.

460
00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:11.980
And when you have conviction, you can look at Donald Trump.

461
00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:14.980
You can say words that don't make sense.

462
00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:20.980
And people will buy into the conviction that you have for the outcome that you want to create.

463
00:27:20.980 --> 00:27:35.980
And so many entrepreneurs in our space, the internet online business world are trying to find the system that creates money because they are not certain rather than about doing what they are selling what they are certain.

464
00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:38.980
That is what creates the results and the success.

465
00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:54.980
And the thing that shifted for me in your book was that if you put in the required time and commitment to making the product that you have conviction is right for the client and the customer, you win.

466
00:27:54.980 --> 00:28:06.980
Because you naturally outsell, out market, charge higher prices, get higher profits, can have more convicted sales people over and over and over again.

467
00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:13.980
And you said something when we hung out last week about having these levers that you know that you can pull.

468
00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:26.980
Like I know that when I spend more on advertising, I make more money when I hire more sales people, I make more money because you have the foundational pieces there in place.

469
00:28:26.980 --> 00:28:30.980
And if you don't have that, then those levers can make you broke.

470
00:28:30.980 --> 00:28:37.980
But when you have that core foundational piece, you can pull all these levers and everything starts to grow. Is that a fair summary?

471
00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:43.980
Yeah, 100%. And would you talk a little bit about those levers, the more advertising, the more sales people?

472
00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:54.980
Yeah, when it looks back at business decisions over time that have consistently concurred with making more money, hiring more sales people in general makes me more money.

473
00:28:54.980 --> 00:29:00.980
Spending more dollars on advertising as a whole, when I spend more money on advertising, we make more money.

474
00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:05.980
When I raise prices in general, we make more money.

475
00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:10.980
And so these have just been recurring themes that have happened throughout our business career.

476
00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:14.980
And so we try and do them, you know, as I don't say as frequently as possible.

477
00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:18.980
Well, especially they made sales teams and things like that for sure as frequently as we can.

478
00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:20.980
Yeah, those are, I mean, those, that's how we've done it.

479
00:29:20.980 --> 00:29:23.980
So Alex, there's a question that has come up.

480
00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:27.980
You posted the podcast that we did together just a few days ago.

481
00:29:27.980 --> 00:29:32.980
And I've had this conversation come up quite a few times, and I was hoping you could speak to it.

482
00:29:32.980 --> 00:29:39.980
And it's the question about how your mindset and your methodology applies to physical products.

483
00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:47.980
So a lot of my audience is Amazon sellers, Amazon is kind of naturally incentivized to have the lowest price.

484
00:29:47.980 --> 00:29:52.980
That's what they want to drive up. They want to have a lot of volume.

485
00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:56.980
It tends to reward people have the lowest price.

486
00:29:56.980 --> 00:30:03.980
And so in the e-commerce world, we're definitely skewed to, to the Walmart model.

487
00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:04.980
Yeah.

488
00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:08.980
And it completely flies in the face of what we're talking about.

489
00:30:08.980 --> 00:30:12.980
How would you reverse that trend as an e-commerce entrepreneur?

490
00:30:12.980 --> 00:30:16.980
And by the way, everyone, Alex is not busy enough.

491
00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:22.980
So he also runs like a $15 to $20 million a year physical products brand as well.

492
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:25.980
Am I underestimating you? Are you over that?

493
00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:26.980
No, I think it's like 16.

494
00:30:26.980 --> 00:30:28.980
Okay, 16 million. Awesome.

495
00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:29.980
Yeah.

496
00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:31.980
He nuts, but he's done it.

497
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:34.980
So would you please comment on how you would reverse that trend?

498
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:37.980
So the first question is just, do I have to sell on Amazon?

499
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:39.980
If I do, then I like, I can answer it that way.

500
00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:42.980
But if I don't have this, what's going on?

501
00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:51.980
You're talking to, you're talking to an e-commerce entrepreneur who sells a million dollars a year across three to four products on Amazon exclusively.

502
00:30:51.980 --> 00:30:52.980
Okay.

503
00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:57.980
They're getting squeezed by price wars and competing on reviews.

504
00:30:57.980 --> 00:31:00.980
How do you reverse that trend with that person?

505
00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:01.980
On Amazon.

506
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:02.980
Yes.

507
00:31:02.980 --> 00:31:10.980
All right. So if I want to Amazon, so there's a section of the book where I talk, it's called the delivery queue, but basically there's ways that you can peel apart your product.

508
00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:13.980
And it's a cue because there's six sides to it.

509
00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:19.980
But this is like when I'm thinking about ideating for a product, this is the process that I kind of go through.

510
00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:25.980
And if we have a physical product, it's how can we add any kind of premiums that cost us nothing that are still going to be valuable?

511
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:29.980
And so I'm going to just give you a hypothetical example, just drive it, drive this home.

512
00:31:29.980 --> 00:31:34.980
All right. So let's say we had a massage, like I'm going to tie back to physical products in a second, but just bear with me.

513
00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:42.980
So if I had a massage partner, for example, and I were and I had a massage and membership or whatever that I was trying to sell.

514
00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:47.980
If I were trying to sell that membership, I could go to every car practice in the area.

515
00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:49.980
I could go to every physical therapist in the area.

516
00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:52.980
I could go to every orthotics dealer in the area.

517
00:31:52.980 --> 00:31:55.980
I could go to every sentent candle person in the area.

518
00:31:55.980 --> 00:32:07.980
I could go to every yoga studio in the area and ask each of them to give me one to two free things of services that cost me nothing and put all of those things in a single offer.

519
00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:08.980
All right.

520
00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:11.980
If I just had, let's say, I just give you six examples for one business, right?

521
00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:16.980
So it's six different in like industries and let's say we had 10 of each of them.

522
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:18.980
So got 63 goodies.

523
00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:24.980
Now all of a sudden, when I say, hey, if you get a massage, Alex's massage parlor, you also become a VIP member.

524
00:32:24.980 --> 00:32:28.980
All right. The VIP member means that you're going to get 10 free power proactive adjustments.

525
00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:30.980
You're going to get 10 free orthotics pieces.

526
00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:32.980
You're going to get 10 free, whatever, right?

527
00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:38.980
And so with that, I took my thing and made it more valuable by using other people's things on top of it.

528
00:32:38.980 --> 00:32:41.980
And so I just wanted to use that as a mental reframe for what I'm talking about.

529
00:32:41.980 --> 00:32:48.980
There's a lot of things outside of the product that we can use to make the core product itself more valuable because the customer has a lot of needs.

530
00:32:48.980 --> 00:32:51.980
And the good news is that when somebody has a lot of desires, I mean, they have...

531
00:32:51.980 --> 00:32:56.980
Alex, I'm starting to interrupt you, but how many of you just had the biggest brain gasm of your life?

532
00:32:56.980 --> 00:32:58.980
Like, you can see where this is going.

533
00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:03.980
You're like, holy fuck, I thought I think I just saw a piece of the matrix.

534
00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:05.980
I'm putting the comments right now.

535
00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:06.980
If you...

536
00:33:06.980 --> 00:33:08.980
Hashtag brain gasm.

537
00:33:08.980 --> 00:33:10.980
If you just...

538
00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:12.980
If you just got a business boner.

539
00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:13.980
Like...

540
00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:17.980
Like, I'm sitting here like, oh my god, this is the greatest thing ever.

541
00:33:17.980 --> 00:33:22.980
And every page of Alex's book is like, oh my, like, I need to figure it.

542
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:24.980
I need to step away from this.

543
00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:25.980
The...

544
00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:28.980
The hashtag brain gasms are starting to happen.

545
00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:31.980
We've got multiple brain gasms happening in the comments, Alex.

546
00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:32.980
All right.

547
00:33:32.980 --> 00:33:35.980
Now, please, please keep going.

548
00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:36.980
I'm ready.

549
00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:40.980
Sorry, we both blew some lines of on-switch before we got all of it.

550
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:42.980
Yes, we did.

551
00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:44.980
Proud sponsor.

552
00:33:44.980 --> 00:33:45.980
Oh, I know.

553
00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:48.980
The response of my on-switch and Johnson and Johnson.

554
00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:49.980
Yeah.

555
00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:50.980
And Johnson and Johnson.

556
00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:55.980
So the delivery cube is basically what I walk through mentally to think, how am I going to deliver the thing?

557
00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:57.980
So, first is, what's the outcome?

558
00:33:57.980 --> 00:34:04.980
And the outcome is, what are the other problems that are answering problems that this customer is going to have for experiencing before or after they use the product?

559
00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:05.980
Oh, my goodness.

560
00:34:05.980 --> 00:34:06.980
They're good.

561
00:34:06.980 --> 00:34:07.980
Okay.

562
00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:08.980
Okay.

563
00:34:08.980 --> 00:34:13.980
What are the things that are going to happen immediately before, in a meeting after, they use my product?

564
00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:16.980
And there's going to be problems that are going to be associated with these.

565
00:34:16.980 --> 00:34:19.980
And how can I solve that problem before and after?

566
00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:20.980
All right.

567
00:34:20.980 --> 00:34:23.980
So if you have that I've identified what the problems are, they're going to be associated with the product.

568
00:34:23.980 --> 00:34:29.980
Then I can pull these problems out and think, okay, now I'm going to splay them out and say, how many different ways can I solve this, right?

569
00:34:29.980 --> 00:34:33.980
And so, let's say we've got somebody and you're in the supplement space.

570
00:34:33.980 --> 00:34:34.980
I'll just say, for example, right?

571
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:38.980
So if you're in the supplement space or nutritional space, whatever, then this person might want to lose weight.

572
00:34:38.980 --> 00:34:39.980
All right.

573
00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:44.980
Well, what other things can I do that might, that somebody who's trying to lose weight and buying my fat burner, right?

574
00:34:44.980 --> 00:34:46.980
What else might they want?

575
00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:48.980
Well, they might want an eating out guide.

576
00:34:48.980 --> 00:34:50.980
They might want a grocery list.

577
00:34:50.980 --> 00:34:52.980
They might want a cooking guide.

578
00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:57.980
They might want liquor fingers winches, a delectable dinner, a shake guide, a breakfast guide.

579
00:34:57.980 --> 00:35:04.980
They might also want a calculator that's for on budget so they can have stuff that's cheap so that they can lose weight on a budget.

580
00:35:04.980 --> 00:35:08.980
They might want to also have family friendly meals that they can make for themselves and their family, right?

581
00:35:08.980 --> 00:35:11.980
They might want to have something they can do for work, right?

582
00:35:11.980 --> 00:35:16.980
You might also want to have the workout guide that they can do at a real gym or they can do it at home, right?

583
00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:23.980
These are all things that take one time time investments that you can add into the core product for no added cost

584
00:35:23.980 --> 00:35:27.980
and then sell that product at a premium because of the insular values we've stacked onto it.

585
00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:31.980
Now, that's just one example of the six on the delivery queue.

586
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:33.980
It will probably take more time to get through.

587
00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:36.980
But like, each of these things are layers of value that you can look at.

588
00:35:36.980 --> 00:35:44.980
Like, you could also add premium support on text as a way that you can support customers that no one else has.

589
00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:47.980
You can do it via phone. You can do it via zoom. You can do it via chat.

590
00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:49.980
You can do it like, that's just one of the things.

591
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:52.980
It's like, that is a medium, which is one of the key.

592
00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:53.980
One of the things.

593
00:35:53.980 --> 00:35:57.980
And then speed and convenience being another one of the layers that you can add onto it.

594
00:35:57.980 --> 00:36:04.980
So before you go there, all of you who ask questions like, how do I get my Amazon data?

595
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:10.980
How do I get my customers email addresses from Amazon? Amazon hides it.

596
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:13.980
You give them great shit.

597
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:22.980
That's how you call attention to all of the other ways that you help them accomplish their goals and overcome their challenges.

598
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:36.980
And then you get them on text lists and emails and they come to Zoom calls and they join your Facebook group and they join your Discord and your Slack channel and any other place that you actually serve them.

599
00:36:36.980 --> 00:36:41.980
You actually treat them like VIPs. That's how you build a VIP list.

600
00:36:41.980 --> 00:36:47.980
You actually overcome their challenges rather than just slapping together a free ebook that you put on the inserts in your packaging.

601
00:36:47.980 --> 00:36:51.980
You actually over-deliver for the goals that they are trying to accomplish.

602
00:36:51.980 --> 00:36:57.980
And then they voluntarily find you and buy everything that you put out.

603
00:36:57.980 --> 00:37:05.980
And then you build launch, that's how you build a launch list where you don't need to do a bunch of giveaways and rebates and use rebate key

604
00:37:05.980 --> 00:37:26.980
and break terms of service in order to get reviews.

605
00:37:57.980 --> 00:38:01.980
And what's also kind of cool about this is we just talked about all those partnerships, right?

606
00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:17.980
So if you're trying to increase your average order value, if those people redeemed 10 of those things that you just gave them and those partners that you made a partnership with, paid you for free customers, then you're increasing and all of that's true bottom line to you.

607
00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:22.980
So you could give away your product for free and then make all of your money on the partnerships on the back end if you really wanted to.

608
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:31.980
So like Layla and I make a couple of million dollars a year just in affiliate partnership rebates coming back to us because we already know we want to enhance the value of the products that we have.

609
00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:38.980
We were going to make the introduction anyways. We might as well get paid for it by gathering and aggregating the solutions in one place.

610
00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:47.980
So that's what our customers want anyways, but as a mental, mental fun exercise, I want to run three, three fun mental tests for everyone that I've gotten good feedback on.

611
00:38:47.980 --> 00:38:58.980
The first is if you were selling your product for $100,000, what would you include to make that product worth $100,000? Like think about it.

612
00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:03.980
Like if someone paid you for the same outcome, because fundamentally everyone's always paying for the outcome, right?

613
00:39:03.980 --> 00:39:10.980
The girl who buys a $5 e-book and the girl who buys liposuction or buying the same outcome, the other variables of value are different, right?

614
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:14.980
Which either enhance or detract the price that you're able to charge, right?

615
00:39:14.980 --> 00:39:23.980
And so if we have a $100,000 thing for a dream outcome versus a $5 thing for a dream outcome, what would I deliver at $100,000? That's thought process number one.

616
00:39:23.980 --> 00:39:35.980
Thought process number two is whatever the price of your current thing, if you had to get them the same outcome for a tenth of the price, what would you have to build or do to get them there?

617
00:39:35.980 --> 00:39:47.980
That's the second. And the third one, and this is probably my favorite of them, is if everyone here had no rebates, you had no advertising dollars.

618
00:39:48.980 --> 00:40:01.980
And all you had was one guaranteed customer who was going to buy the product, and the only way for your business to grow is for that person to tell someone else about the product, what would you have to do to make that happen?

619
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:02.980
To guarantee.

620
00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:06.980
When you say one person, do you mean one type of person or one individual?

621
00:40:06.980 --> 00:40:12.980
You get one purchase, and you have to deliver such an experience that one purchase is what kicks off your business.

622
00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:14.980
I love that question.

623
00:40:14.980 --> 00:40:19.980
Because I think if we ask the right questions, we get much better answers. A lot of people are like, well, how do I make more money?

624
00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:23.980
It's like, how do you get every single customer you have to send you five customers?

625
00:40:23.980 --> 00:40:28.980
Well, it's like, well, even that question, maybe it's been overly hurt. So it's like, what if you only had one fucking customer?

626
00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:30.980
Sorry.

627
00:40:30.980 --> 00:40:32.980
It was good.

628
00:40:32.980 --> 00:40:39.980
And I liked that there's one shot, because it's like, you have to make it so over the top that you can't say, well, we know 20% are going to refer.

629
00:40:39.980 --> 00:40:44.980
It's like, what if we only had one shot, one opportunity? It's everything we've ever wanted.

630
00:40:44.980 --> 00:40:46.980
It's our moment.

631
00:40:50.980 --> 00:40:54.980
Hope you guys enjoyed part one of the podcast. We'll grind in and we're in from capitalism.com.

632
00:40:54.980 --> 00:41:01.980
In the next half of this podcast, we dive deep into the sequence of making the dollars.

633
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:10.980
Creation of flow, adding friction, how much end when and how to pair that with exceptional customer experience and results.

634
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:13.980
I think you guys want to tune in. It's a good one.