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I think a huge amount of the delay that happens when people are starting out is the amount

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of time it takes for them to realize there is no easy way.

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So they spend a huge amount of time, they figure out what they're what how to do it, and

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then they spend a really long time trying to figure out if there's an user way, and then

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they give up trying to find an user way, and then they just start the hard way, because

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they're always the only way.

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Alex, thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour.

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Really appreciate it.

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Thanks so much for having me.

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I think that a huge fan of your Twitter lately, it has been on fire, you seem to be tweeting

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all the time, really insightful stuff.

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Recently you tweeted that it has never been easier to be successful.

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Why do so many people feel like it's not?

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I think it's just never been easier to be distracted.

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So it's like the bars never been lower, but the bar is even lower to not do it, and

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I think people have been more comfortable in there today.

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And so it's like Netflix and chilling and Uber and DoorDash and all of that stuff has

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just made everything, like comfort is like, we're like comfort maxing right now.

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And so all of these other tools, like these software platforms and AI and all the stuff

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is lower the bar for people to make content or start businesses or advertise or whatever

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they want to do, but it's just like it's so hard to take a risk when you could literally

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just do nothing.

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And the way that society is now, it's like you're not going to go homeless and you're

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not going to starve.

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So like, what I see is the most exciting part because you could just, you could take

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a huge shot in the worst case scenarios, like you're not going to starve and you're going

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to have shelter.

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So do you think it's a blessing or a curse?

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I would say it's a blessing.

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I mean, the thing of the day, I think technology is always going to move things forward.

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So that's like, it's never been easier than it is today.

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And 20 years ago, it was never easier than it was that up to that point.

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So it's like it will always get easier for people to start businesses, which I think

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is a good thing.

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In terms of optimizing for comfort, what is the downside of?

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Purely just being someone at home scrolling all the time.

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How big is it for them not to reach their potential?

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I think it's a, it's a them thing.

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So I don't see it as a problem at all.

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I mean, I think it's only a problem if you're making some sort of demand of the universe

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that your life must be a certain way.

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And so I think that's where it's kind of all the sheds.

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Like I should, like my life should have meaning, my life should have this impact, my

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life should, all these things.

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If you believe that, then yeah, it'll be an issue because it's a, like, I believe

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in conditional sheds, not absolute sheds.

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So like if this, then you shouldn't probably scroll in your phone as much.

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If you want to get in shape, like maybe don't eat more than you burn, like, but don't

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eat more than you burn as a general statement.

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It was like, do it every month.

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That's your, it's your life.

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I just have the issue when people want something different than the way they act.

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Do you think it's overall lowered the bar for excellence?

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Like a lot of people can kind of just become successful by happenstance or by luck now?

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I think there are definitely people who get lucky, repeat and steer entrepreneurs less.

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So I've only really encountered maybe like a couple people in my career from the entrepreneur

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side that I'm like, this guy was just lucky.

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I think there are elements of luck, but it's like luck becomes a, like it becomes gas

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more than the thing that like built the car.

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It's like they were going to be successful.

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They just got way more successful because they had like kind of multiple things kind of

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aligned.

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Could you give us some examples of luck like that?

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Yeah.

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If you were an Amazon in 2013, 14, 15 and you put up a product, you could just crush.

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Like you didn't have to like really know anything.

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There was just all this demand that was there.

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If you were running Facebook ads in 2011, it was just like not hard to crush.

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If you, if you were doing SEO in like 2008 and 2007 with like you could literally just

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put like coffee and like white, white font on a white background.

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So the whole background of the website just said coffee, but like if you looked at the

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site, you wouldn't see it.

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But if you like took a cursor, you could just see just this coffee because the algorithms

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weren't like that advanced.

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And so you can just rank and get all the rules traffic.

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So there was just like a lot of the things that were lucky were just like typically I'll

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put it differently.

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Luck will come from a supply demand discrepancy within a window of time.

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And so where there's a huge amount of demand and a small amount of supply and then you

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happen to be one of those people who gets in on that.

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Now that being said, part of that is like recognizing opportunity and so like to what

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degree is that luck, you know, I think the question of whether it's luck or not is whether

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you can repeat it.

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So I'm curious where the opportunities are today because it seems like every few years

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in hindsight, you could look back and be like, that was the best time to do that.

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Yeah.

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What are what's going on today that people aren't recognizing the potential in?

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I think there's micro and macro opportunities.

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So like from the macro perspective, I think we've had like three big ones.

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So at least in my lifetime.

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So it's like we've had internet, which is like kind of opportunity number one, opportunity

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number two is kind of like web 2.0, which is social.

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And then opportunity three is AI now.

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So there's the three macro ones.

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Now underneath of that, it's kind of like Facebook ads was kind of like an opportunity

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kind of like within that and then like Google search was an opportunity like all of those

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are going to like sub kind of like micro opportunities like I think like TikTok shop right now.

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A lot of people are kind of like in the Amazon of 2013, 14 like I know a lot of people

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who have really never done much and then just like within 60, 90 days or doing a million

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a month.

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And it's just because there's a huge supply demand, discrepancy between the amount of

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influencers there that I want to make money and the amount of products to sell.

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And they will just continue to populate it until eventually it becomes a stabilized market.

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But it's like when there's when there's market, there's land grabs occur.

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That's when there's typically outsize returns to be had.

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What do you think people need to be able to capitalize on these opportunities?

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I think, I think you have to have skills, but straight up, like you just have to have

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skills.

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Like I remember is really funny, like our first ever conversation that we had, I was like,

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man, if I had your amount of following, I was like, I'd be a billionaire.

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And I saw that as a supply demand, like even so like when you asked just a few minutes

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ago, like, you know, what's the, what things are there now?

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Like I still kind of see social media still thinks there.

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I still think that opportunity exists for people if you're good, but maybe it's less

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so than when Instagram came out in 20, whatever year it was, when you could just like just post

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pictures of you on the sunset and have like a million followers and people would just

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buy because you just had this insane reach.

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But I saw it as a, as a, the fact that we can still, the fact we could still advertise

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ourselves and get paid to do it is still mind boggling to me that that like opportunity

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exists.

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Like you can build a brand and get paid to do it, which I think is insane.

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Okay.

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So now it's arguable that you have his brand.

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If not even a bigger brand, are you, did you accomplish that goal?

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I, I won't be public about what our stuff is valued at, but I think that we've done

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well.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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The classic answer.

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Yeah.

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That makes, that makes a lot of sense.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't, I don't want to make claims your own things.

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Market, market values for enterprise value for illiquid assets like private equity investments

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and, you know, companies that are owned really depends only on the time that somebody's

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going to buy it.

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So I have had some of the biggest banks that you've heard of Blackstone, things like that

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out to this headquarters to see what we have going on and they've been like, this is insane.

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What did they look for when Blackstone shows up?

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So what they want is whatever investor wants, which is what, you know, I, I tried to set

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out to do in the very beginning, which was they want proprietary deal flow.

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So they want people who want to specifically do deals with one person, so it's not like

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they're shopping.

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They're like, I want to do a deal with you.

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And ideally, you have some sort of captive market or niche.

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And so for acquisition.com, we are kind of low mid market in terms of what, what companies

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or businesses are kind of attracted to my stuff.

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And so it's typically the business is doing like between one and a hundred billion dollars

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a year.

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And so, and this was kind of the thesis of acquisition in the beginning was like, okay,

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everything's sub a million.

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There's tons of people who, you know, help people get their first customer a few hundred

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thousand dollars in revenue.

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First five clients, things like that.

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Like there's tons of kind of like the coaching consulting, whatever, you know, their

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coaching course world is there.

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Then if you go like a hundred million up, then you've got like McKinsey Bain, BCG, Deloitte,

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PWC, EY, like a lot of these gardener, like all these kinds of consulting firms that deal

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with like kind of above there.

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There's just not a lot in the like the one to a hundred million range.

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And what's interesting about that particular range is that that's where a huge amount

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of like alpha is created in terms of investing returns.

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And so like, for example, if you have a business and this is probably going to lose half

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the half the audience.

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If you have a business that's doing called like three million dollars in EBITDA or profit

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right, per year.

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And you can make a handful of tweaks and get it from three to eight million.

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The three million dollar EBITDA business might be worth twelve million dollars maybe.

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The eight million dollar EBITDA business can probably get somewhere between like eighty

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and a hundred million dollars of a sale.

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And so it's like you have a huge multiplier effect that increases once you get above about

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five million dollars in profit, and especially as you approach ten, where you now become

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a target for institutional grade investors.

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So that because they can write, they have to put to work hundreds of millions of dollars.

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And so they basically become the customer of buying the product, which is the business

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that you created.

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And so our thesis of acquisition.com was like, well, we want to get people right before

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there at that level, buy at really small prices, make the changes in the business and

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then capture this huge upside.

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So I'm always curious why they would sell in the first place like 10X revenue seems pretty

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good.

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But what does a business get out of that if they're hoping it'll, you know, it'll take ten

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years to maybe make their money back or why would a business sell?

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Yeah.

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Or why would a business sell if they could scale up even further for that and sell for

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way more?

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There's okay, there's so many reasons, but so one just for the audience, so eight million

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and EBITDA would be bottom line rather than top line for the transfer, well, for like

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a long care business and something like that.

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But with regards to why would an owner sell a couple of reasons, well, a lot of reasons.

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But there's the common ones, which is like divorce, that sometimes happens, they get

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forced to sell.

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They have disillusion of partnerships, so the partners aren't getting along, that happens

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a lot.

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Beyond that, you have a very common one, which is just chips off the table, they're like,

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you know, I've been reinvesting all the profits in the business or I, you know, maybe

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it makes eight million dollars in profit, but I put, you know, four million back in every

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year to continue to like buy more lawnmowers or whatever else you need to do, right?

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And so maybe over that period of time, maybe they have like, I don't know, five million

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dollars or ten million dollars saved up after taxes, but when you're looking at an eighty

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million dollar check with 20% capital gains, you're looking at whatever, 64 million dollars

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post tax, it's like, it's a six and a half facts increase in your net worth and you know

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that like, you're done, done.

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And so you're like, something good happened because the thing is, is every business owner,

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so one of the interesting things about being an entrepreneur business owner is like, you

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always know where all the bodies are buried in your own business.

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And so you always see all the negatives because also entrepreneurship is a forcing function

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for pain because all the, and Elon talks about this.

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So this isn't, you know, my original idea, but basically you get all the worst problems

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that no one else wants to solve because like if something's going well, then you're not

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needed.

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It's going well.

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And if someone else wants to solve it and there's something wrong with somebody else

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will solve it.

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So it's only the worst problems that only you can solve or that no one else wants to solve

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that you get.

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And that's pretty much like what your day is every day.

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And so you always almost in some ways have to be this super optimist because you deal

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with nothing but negative day to all day.

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And at some point some people just get tired of doing that.

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And so there's a de-risking component.

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Some people just like one out.

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And a lot of people it's like, hey, if I had $50 million, I had $10 million or whatever

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the number is.

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They're like, I set out to set my family up and I want to, you know, chill and be on the

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beach.

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Now we all know that they just get bored within three months, but sometimes you have to

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express that for yourself.

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So where do most businesses get stuck?

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I mean, business gets stuck at all different levels.

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Because all you have to do is just look at the revenue breakdowns like 95% of businesses

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are less than a million dollars a year.

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So a lot of businesses just like barely even get to the million dollar in revenue point.

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Above that it's, I think it's one in 250, so it's 0.4% get to $10 million a year.

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So is that a market problem or an operator problem?

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I think it's almost an always an operator problem.

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Unless you're like, people will name these like really random weird businesses where

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someone like tries to come up with something entirely new.

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But I see there's kind of like three kind of types of big type buckets of risk in terms

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of picking an opportunity.

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You've got like a product market fit risk, which is I'm going to come up with something

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that no one's ever done before and see if people want it.

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That's like an Uber.

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Like, let's see if strangers will pick up strangers and taxies like maybe it sounds like

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it may sound crazy at the time, right?

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So that's a product market fit issue.

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Those are in my opinion extremely risky.

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The second category are technical risk issues.

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So like if I just said, hey, I can come up with an AI sales person that can take all your

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phone calls for you.

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I don't need to guess whether people are going to want that.

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They're for sure going to want it.

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The problem is how likely you can actually do it.

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It's the difficulty of actually solving the problem, right?

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The other thing, it's like, well, there's some technical risk there too, but will people

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even want this versus they want it?

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I don't know if I can deliver it.

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And then the third category is what I would say is the vast majority of business owners,

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which is just execution risk.

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There's other long-care businesses that $200 million a year, the path is really literally

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in front of me, the only risk is whether I'm skilled enough to do it.

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That's it.

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So what are the biggest operating obstacles you've personally ran into trying to scale acquisition.com

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into a billion-dollar business and how did you overcome it?

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Yeah.

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Well, I'll say this, suffering is constant.

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It's just that the nature of the suffering changes.

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And so it's like the hard is always hard and it just, and I think what makes it more

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difficult as the business continues to develop is that you end up trading things that you

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didn't expect you'd have to trade.

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And so like in a lot of people's minds, it's like, oh, I can push really hard.

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It's like, it stops being about how hard you can push at a certain point.

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Sometimes it's about how long you can wait.

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Sometimes it's about how focused you can stay.

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Sometimes it's about what kind of person you're able to attract to the business.

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Sometimes it's just the quality of your decisions, right?

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Well, a lot of times the quality of your decisions.

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And those are just kind of like micro examples.

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But like in the very beginning, you have to overcome a lot of environmental issues.

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It's like you have your friends and family who are telling you that it's not going to

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work, whatever.

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And they think your idea is stupid.

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And so you have to overcome that.

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And then maybe you have to overcome your own limiting beliefs.

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So you have to overcome that.

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And then you start doing things and you start advertising and letting people know that

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you have stuff and selling them on your services, your product.

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And then quickly you have to learn like the first level of management.

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It's like, okay, well, now it's not me.

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It's me and maybe a couple of virtual assistants and then you're like, okay, this is too

292
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much for part-timers.

293
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I need some full-timers.

294
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So you have to level up to basically being a manager, which you haven't done before.

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And then once you're a manager, it's like, okay, one managing this half.

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I have to get somebody else and you get your first manager and then all of a sudden you

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have multiple managers.

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Now you're a leader, right?

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And then you have to attract leaders, which is a totally different skill because you have

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to lead leaders.

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And so at every level, I see entrepreneurship as a forcing function for pain, but also

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a forcing function for progress in that you will stay in pain until you progress.

303
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And then you will find new pain.

304
00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:46.200
So it's something that you've tweeted or said that people clearly agree with, but just

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don't implement.

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I feel like we can pull it up.

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Where do you want to start?

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00:14:52.560 --> 00:14:55.320
You think Twitter is like a high ROI activity for you?

309
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Twitter is, it's like, I can't help myself.

310
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You just can't, and that's what your indulgences.

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Yeah, like, let's see, let's see what, what, what did people not understand about this?

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Suck at something, work for free, lots of times, suck less, win till people ask for free

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work and you can't take them on.

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Now you have more demand than you have supply, begin to charge money, boot out the free

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clients for paid clients, and then offer to keep working with those clients for money.

316
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Congrats.

317
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You have a business.

318
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So I agree with that.

319
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Now, now here's a counterpoint to that.

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It is hard to take people from free to paying for a service.

321
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Totally.

322
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What is your way around that?

323
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:30.600
Well, it depends.

324
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So it depends on how high value the service is, number one, and number two, we start with

325
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free because you need to get reps because you're probably suck.

326
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And so it's like, you're really getting free feedback from people that otherwise like

327
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shouldn't pick because you will be terrible.

328
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But the transitioning people from free to paid really comes down to just how good you

329
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are.

330
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And if you are like, so for example, if I, if I was redoing all your YouTube thumbnails

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and I said, I would do it for free now at your levels, everybody's listening, don't

332
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immediately DM Graham because you already have some tape, right?

333
00:15:58.040 --> 00:16:01.560
But like the thing is, go for somebody who's like one tenth of Graham size, who can't

334
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really afford it.

335
00:16:03.280 --> 00:16:05.480
Give that guy the thumbnails.

336
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And if you're thumbnails beat his thumbnails, he will.

337
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If you're like, okay, well, I have now all these people are paying me.

338
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So you can pay me what they're paying me or I'm just going to work with them.

339
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At that point, he'll either pay if he's making any money on his channel or he won't.

340
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But like, there's real value that's being created there.

341
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But the idea is you want to get your roster filled so that at that point, and I think part

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of this, I give this as advice because a lot of people in the beginning don't believe

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they can charge anything.

344
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And so it's like, fine, don't charge, get better.

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And then once you literally can't take people on, it's like, dude, I can't take you on.

346
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And then they're like, well, what would it take?

347
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And you're like, oh, money, money.

348
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I could do that.

349
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I could do it for money.

350
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And then now it's like, you actually can help someone break through the belief of like,

351
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yeah, you can ask for money for stuff.

352
00:16:43.880 --> 00:16:46.440
Do you think there's something to look out for for people who just want something for

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free and will never pay for it?

354
00:16:48.280 --> 00:16:49.840
Well, I'll say this.

355
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My big caveat for free, if I'm going to give it away, is I have to get, I'll give something

356
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away for free.

357
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I'll give stuff away for free that costs me money if it's to a qualified prospect.

358
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.720
So if I'm giving, you know, if I'm trying to get into enterprise IT services, right,

359
00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:09.760
I'm not going to start with a local, I, you know, dry cleaning business who can't afford

360
00:17:09.760 --> 00:17:11.560
what I would like to eventually charge.

361
00:17:11.560 --> 00:17:15.240
So I want somebody who has a band, which is budget authority need timing.

362
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So do they have the money to spend?

363
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:17.880
Do they have the authority to make a decision?

364
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Do they have the need for the specific thing is now a good time.

365
00:17:20.360 --> 00:17:23.600
If I can get those four things, I'll give that person free stuff.

366
00:17:23.600 --> 00:17:25.920
Like if it's like, hey, I'm only doing back massages for billionaires.

367
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Fine.

368
00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:29.040
Then like, you got to be a billionaire and I'll give it to you for free eventually.

369
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I'll charge.

370
00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:31.840
But no, the home was gone on the corner of the street.

371
00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:34.120
We'll also take free massages, but he'll never be able to pay.

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And so it's not that we want to get free to anyone.

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00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:39.960
It's just that we want to get the most qualified prospects, get good feedback from those

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00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.200
customers, which they, we should treat them like customers so that we can then eventually

375
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.760
charge people just like them based on the feedback that we got.

376
00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:48.360
Otherwise, we'd be building a product for somebody who's the wrong person.

377
00:17:48.360 --> 00:17:51.280
How do you make your offer unbeatable then?

378
00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:52.280
Where it's unfair.

379
00:17:52.280 --> 00:17:53.280
Yes.

380
00:17:53.280 --> 00:17:54.880
If people feel stupid saying no.

381
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.440
So I think, so a couple of things.

382
00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:02.040
So there's, there's four elements of value as I've kind of defined in the book, $100

383
00:18:02.040 --> 00:18:03.040
dollar offers book.

384
00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:05.880
So you have the dream outcome, right, which is like, what is, what am I actually going

385
00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:06.880
to give this person?

386
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:08.880
Every product is a dream outcome, every services is a dream outcome, which is like, what's

387
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.480
the thing that would they want to have happen?

388
00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:11.480
Okay.

389
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:12.480
Cool.

390
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.480
So that's going to be your baseline in terms of value, like if I'm going to help somebody

391
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.200
make an extra million dollars a year or $10 million, that's going to be a baseline.

392
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.600
But there's still going to be a discount that's applied to that.

393
00:18:19.600 --> 00:18:22.080
And there's basically three factors that apply to that discount.

394
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Number one is how fast is it going to happen?

395
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Number two is how much effort is it going to take on behalf of the customer?

396
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.160
And then number three is how likely is it to occur?

397
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:32.800
And so fundamentally, those are the elements of value that are either multipliers or

398
00:18:32.800 --> 00:18:35.880
detractors of what you can ultimately charge a customer for whatever it is that you

399
00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:36.880
sell.

400
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:37.880
So how do I make it fast?

401
00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:39.840
How do I make it easy and how to make it risk-free?

402
00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:42.560
And so within each of those components, like part of the way of making your risk-free

403
00:18:42.560 --> 00:18:46.840
to them is if I have 10,000 other people I've done this for, it's much less risky, right?

404
00:18:46.840 --> 00:18:47.840
That's proof, right?

405
00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:50.840
You could also do that with covenants in terms of either doing it based on performance

406
00:18:50.840 --> 00:18:52.520
that you have shits more the risk to you.

407
00:18:52.520 --> 00:18:55.320
You could also just give guarantees and satisfaction if you have guarantees that are

408
00:18:55.320 --> 00:18:57.040
conditional based on things that they do.

409
00:18:57.040 --> 00:19:00.280
Those are all elements of things that you can do to decrease risk, which you can reverse

410
00:19:00.280 --> 00:19:01.280
into price.

411
00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:06.280
And so say differently, I could say, hey, I'll charge you $5,000 to do this thing.

412
00:19:06.280 --> 00:19:10.400
And if someone says, well, no, it's like, okay, well, I'll do it for $3,000, but I won't

413
00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.160
give you satisfaction guarantee.

414
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:16.720
And then what you'll find happen is like, oh, I'll do it for $5,000 with the guarantee.

415
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.320
So people will resell themselves on a higher price if you take away a component that's

416
00:19:19.320 --> 00:19:20.320
valuable.

417
00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:22.080
So that's the risk one.

418
00:19:22.080 --> 00:19:26.120
From a speed perspective, I would say that the more I've studied like human behavior of

419
00:19:26.120 --> 00:19:30.440
sales persuasion marketing, the more I really lean into speed.

420
00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:34.400
Like if you want to enter any new market place, just look at what everyone else is doing

421
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.480
and see if you can do it in half the time.

422
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.880
And there's just so much value in speed.

423
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.440
Like humans are so immediate reward focused.

424
00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.200
Like almost every business can offer a speed version.

425
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.120
So it's like, you're a YouTube thumbnail agency and you say, cool, I'll get you thumbnails

426
00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:49.120
in a week normally.

427
00:19:49.120 --> 00:19:53.760
It's like, oh, if you want for 50% more, I'll get them to you in 24 hours.

428
00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:57.360
And for 300%, I'll get them to you in the next 60 minutes.

429
00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:58.360
Same cost to you.

430
00:19:58.360 --> 00:19:59.360
It's the same work.

431
00:19:59.360 --> 00:20:01.960
But you just give someone priority access and it's all margin.

432
00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:05.320
So it's like, you can always play with speed as another variable of value.

433
00:20:05.320 --> 00:20:09.120
And then the third element has two pieces to it, which is ease, like, well, how does

434
00:20:09.120 --> 00:20:10.120
I have two elements?

435
00:20:10.120 --> 00:20:14.320
Well, one is what are the bad things that I hate doing that I get to not do as a result

436
00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:15.320
of buying, right?

437
00:20:15.320 --> 00:20:16.320
All the stuff I don't like.

438
00:20:16.320 --> 00:20:17.320
You're going to take away.

439
00:20:17.320 --> 00:20:18.320
Great.

440
00:20:18.320 --> 00:20:19.920
But I also want to make sure that I don't prevent someone from doing the things they

441
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:21.440
do enjoy doing, right?

442
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.400
And so I give a classic example of like, have you sent up in a gym?

443
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:27.600
All of a sudden, you have to start doing things you don't want to do.

444
00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:29.400
But you also have to stop drinking margaritas.

445
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:30.600
You have to stop taco Tuesday.

446
00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:33.200
You have to stop having cupcakes, stop having your McFlurry's.

447
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:36.200
So it's like, you have to give up stuff you like and you have to do stuff you hate,

448
00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:38.320
which is why it's such a hard sale.

449
00:20:38.320 --> 00:20:41.840
So do you study psychology in order to be a more effective salesperson?

450
00:20:41.840 --> 00:20:44.320
I wouldn't say a study psychology.

451
00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:49.440
I would say I just look at data of business because I, the one advantage that I have

452
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:53.640
is I have a huge amount of data that I sit on top of between the companies that we invest

453
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.360
in, the companies that come use our services on the advisory division, when the companies

454
00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:59.960
that will come as we own are the companies we invest in.

455
00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:02.120
And so it's like, I get to see a lot of different data.

456
00:21:02.120 --> 00:21:06.520
And so when we make changes into a sales process or a change in terms of an offer, I could

457
00:21:06.520 --> 00:21:09.280
see the improvements in conversion rates.

458
00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:12.520
And so that's where a lot of my like DCs have come from.

459
00:21:12.520 --> 00:21:16.440
Are you ever surprised by the data or is most of it kind of just confirming your intuition

460
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:17.440
all the time?

461
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:18.440
I'm surprised.

462
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:20.680
It's been like one of the biggest surprises about this data.

463
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.600
Yeah, we had a company that sells B2B services.

464
00:21:24.600 --> 00:21:29.080
And I had this guess that based on basically we could collect the data of the size of the

465
00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:33.600
revenue of the companies that were basically leads that were coming in the funnel.

466
00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:38.440
And so I wanted to shut off the bottom third of the leads because they were the lowest

467
00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:41.400
revenue leads and just have the team focus on the top two thirds.

468
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.220
And so I was like, hey, just pull the sales data because I'm going to bet that all the

469
00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:46.520
conversions happening on the top end.

470
00:21:46.520 --> 00:21:48.960
The conversion rate was actually evenly surprised.

471
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.200
And so I was like, huh, like almost to the percentage point.

472
00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:54.840
I was like, that is not what I would have expected.

473
00:21:54.840 --> 00:21:56.640
And again, that could be unique to that specific business.

474
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:01.680
I would still posit that in general more qualified customers buy on average more and it's

475
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.720
been more money just in this particular business.

476
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.520
And maybe that means that that business misprice, which would be a different problem.

477
00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:08.880
But given that data, I was like, huh, that's interesting.

478
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.580
We have people who are 10 times the size, but I get the same rate as people who are one

479
00:22:12.580 --> 00:22:14.520
tenth the size wild.

480
00:22:14.520 --> 00:22:16.600
And it's way more of a stretch for these people and it's for these people.

481
00:22:16.600 --> 00:22:17.600
So people were missing her.

482
00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:21.120
Ever find out why have you dug into that in the bottom?

483
00:22:21.120 --> 00:22:24.160
It's a great question because I try.

484
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:28.040
It's really hard to say why because I think a lot of people like to use because it's

485
00:22:28.040 --> 00:22:29.600
very compelling.

486
00:22:29.600 --> 00:22:35.120
But I just try and stick with like, this is the data that I have within this given context

487
00:22:35.120 --> 00:22:36.920
and in the situation it worked.

488
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.680
And I know there are principles like things that are fast will sell better than things

489
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:41.680
that are slow.

490
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:43.720
Things that are easy will sell better than things that are hard.

491
00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:45.920
Things that are risk-free will sell better than things that are not risky.

492
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:47.600
Like I can take that to the bank.

493
00:22:47.600 --> 00:22:50.720
So like I try and think like, what are the few principles that will always be true?

494
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:52.360
And then the rest is application.

495
00:22:52.360 --> 00:22:57.000
What's something that you track within a business that most people don't even look at?

496
00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:59.920
I would say the, I'll give you a handful of metrics that I track.

497
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:02.320
So you're like, I didn't need that many.

498
00:23:02.320 --> 00:23:06.600
So if I just offer two things, it would be gross margin and revenue retention.

499
00:23:06.600 --> 00:23:10.360
So fundamentally like, what do we make per sale in terms of like, is there a lot of margin

500
00:23:10.360 --> 00:23:11.360
that's there?

501
00:23:11.360 --> 00:23:13.440
Like that's more attractive to me.

502
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.600
And then secondly, how likely is that this person is going to continue to buy from us next

503
00:23:16.600 --> 00:23:17.800
year in the year after that?

504
00:23:17.800 --> 00:23:22.760
So if I have a business that I have hypothetically 100% gross margins and 100% revenue retention,

505
00:23:22.760 --> 00:23:23.760
that's an amazing business.

506
00:23:23.760 --> 00:23:26.760
They literally just print money and they never lose it like that's cool.

507
00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:27.760
That's a very attractive business.

508
00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:30.920
So if I only knew those two things, the only other thing I'd want to know is, what's

509
00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:35.080
my cost to a car customer versus my lifetime gross profit per customer?

510
00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:39.280
So how much money does it cost me to get somebody and then how much they pay me over time?

511
00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:44.040
And so basically that fundamental, that LTP to CAC ratio or LTP to CAC ratio, I know

512
00:23:44.040 --> 00:23:48.560
Fancy acronyms, but that ratio between those two numbers is the fundamental economic arbitrage

513
00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:53.040
that exists within businesses and fundamentally that's why private businesses will get the

514
00:23:53.040 --> 00:23:59.840
highest returns in terms of returns of capital because in so few places, like if you were

515
00:23:59.840 --> 00:24:03.800
to put it in the S&P factor into those companies are already at scale and it's harder for them

516
00:24:03.800 --> 00:24:06.320
to grow, you know, huge, huge percentages.

517
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:10.800
Let's see, put $1,000 in and you get 10% to your $1,100 at the end of the year.

518
00:24:10.800 --> 00:24:16.120
In a business, you can put $1,000 into paid ads and make $30,000 in gross profit in 24 hours.

519
00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:18.320
Like that happens all the time.

520
00:24:18.320 --> 00:24:24.760
And so it's like, that's how somebody can go from $0 to a billionaire in four years because

521
00:24:24.760 --> 00:24:26.600
the returns on capital are absurd.

522
00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:30.680
And this is also what I think one of the big opportunities of social media is, is that

523
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:32.400
like, okay, why is social media so powerful?

524
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:34.480
It's because it drives CAC to zero.

525
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.600
He trusts customer satisfaction.

526
00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:38.320
I take it as, I'll take surveys.

527
00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:41.400
So we survey across all the companies that we have because I like to have leading indicators

528
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:43.000
and numbers of like what's going on.

529
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.600
I care more about the reason why is that they give it's kind of like the comment section.

530
00:24:46.600 --> 00:24:50.440
Like I care more about that, but I care far more about renewal rates.

531
00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:54.680
So if we're getting bad scores, but everyone's buying, then I'd be like, okay, well we found

532
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:58.440
something that people need but hate that they have to buy from us and they'll be very

533
00:24:58.440 --> 00:24:59.440
quick to switch.

534
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.960
But as of right now, there's no one else who can do it either better faster or cheaper

535
00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:02.960
than we can.

536
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.560
But I would, renewal rate, like how you spend your money is what I care the most about.

537
00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:07.560
Sure.

538
00:25:07.560 --> 00:25:09.480
I'd say what you think it's kind of like, what do you want?

539
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:11.440
And people are like, I want faster horses versus the car.

540
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.360
So it's like, I care about that a little bit, but I care far more about what the data

541
00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:16.360
suggests about.

542
00:25:16.360 --> 00:25:17.360
For sure.

543
00:25:17.360 --> 00:25:20.680
How often do you get a no and it's actually a no?

544
00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:21.680
What do you mean?

545
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:26.680
How many, when you make an offer to somebody and they say no, I'm not interested.

546
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:31.480
How often is that able to be turned around across what setting is that in a sale setting?

547
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:35.720
I think it depends on the reason the person said no.

548
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:39.640
So that would be like, it would be a discovery question after that.

549
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.800
So it'd be like, well, what are the variables you're going to make the decision?

550
00:25:42.800 --> 00:25:48.040
And sometimes like, I think there's a big difference between a no based on value or a no based

551
00:25:48.040 --> 00:25:51.760
on details or a no based on authority or a no based on timing.

552
00:25:51.760 --> 00:25:53.640
Like just kind of said, budget 13 timing.

553
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:55.320
These are the kind of components.

554
00:25:55.320 --> 00:25:59.360
Well, how do we make sure that we can, can I control, can I, can I overcome some of these

555
00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:00.360
issues?

556
00:26:00.600 --> 00:26:01.880
Love what you have.

557
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:04.120
I don't buy coats because I live in Panama.

558
00:26:04.120 --> 00:26:05.920
Like, okay, there's no need.

559
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:08.640
Like I could try and sell what I were like, hey, I've got a gym membership.

560
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:09.400
Why aren't you setting up?

561
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:12.240
It's like, well, you're an Iowa and I live in Florida.

562
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:13.920
Like, I'm never going to get there.

563
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.720
Like, so it's like where, yeah, it depends on the reason for the no.

564
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.320
Oh, what if it's a price issue?

565
00:26:19.320 --> 00:26:23.280
Where do you draw the line between lowering the price and sheepening the product?

566
00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:28.240
I never, like getting someone who's qualified or keeping the price the same, but losing the sale.

567
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:33.200
Yeah, so I'm a very firm believer in never negotiating with terrorists, including price

568
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.200
terrorists.

569
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:38.680
And so if someone wants to look, like if someone says, hey, can you do it for cheaper,

570
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:41.000
you know, we always, we train and say, like, we can do it for more.

571
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.040
And people are like, okay, yeah, I got, I'll, I'll buy it that price.

572
00:26:45.040 --> 00:26:48.120
But I, the price that you quote is the price that you've stick to.

573
00:26:48.120 --> 00:26:52.600
Otherwise, as soon as you negotiate once, every price you have is negotiable, which sucks

574
00:26:52.600 --> 00:26:55.320
as a business is paying the buy and I hate it.

575
00:26:55.320 --> 00:26:58.500
So, and you want price standardization anyways, because you want different people getting

576
00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:01.320
sold different prices, people to talk, it's kind of sucks.

577
00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:03.120
So my big thing is price in terms.

578
00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:07.080
And so if we have this price, if I'm going to change it, then I will also change terms.

579
00:27:07.080 --> 00:27:11.200
So if someone's like, hey, I, I would love to buy the 5,000 one thing, but I can't afford

580
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:12.200
it.

581
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:14.200
If we've already looped a couple of times and said, okay, why can't you afford it?

582
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:15.200
Why?

583
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:16.200
How important is this to you?

584
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:17.680
What would it cost you to, to not do this?

585
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.440
You know, quantifies many of these things as possible and they're still like, I literally

586
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.560
just don't have this amount of this is here's my bank account.

587
00:27:22.560 --> 00:27:23.560
I have $3,000.

588
00:27:23.560 --> 00:27:25.400
I have $5,000 or $3,000.

589
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.440
Then, and then it's just like, I can't ethically sell you the same thing as somebody else

590
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:29.840
for $5,000 for $3,000.

591
00:27:29.840 --> 00:27:30.840
I can't do it.

592
00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:32.400
But I can do is I can remove a component.

593
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.320
So let's look at these things that we have here.

594
00:27:34.320 --> 00:27:35.320
We have this guarantee.

595
00:27:35.320 --> 00:27:38.400
I can remove the guarantee and I can knock at $1,000 off this at work.

596
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:39.400
Okay.

597
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:42.160
Also, instead of, you know, coming to the gym, you know, three times a week, if you come

598
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:44.000
to the gym twice a week, will that work for you?

599
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.000
Great.

600
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.000
Well, let's just do that.

601
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.000
You can do one workout at home.

602
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:51.040
So I'll, I'll, I'll want to change the terms of the agreement if I'm going to change

603
00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:54.640
price, but I can't, I won't just say, sure, I'll do it for less.

604
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:56.160
I just won't do that.

605
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:57.800
Why do you think that most people fail?

606
00:27:57.800 --> 00:28:03.520
Is it a skill gap, a belief gap, or is it just distraction?

607
00:28:03.520 --> 00:28:06.160
I think it depends on how we define failure.

608
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:10.480
So for the people who don't start, then it's probably a belief issue.

609
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:13.920
Like they, they didn't, they failed by never starting and that's the vast majority

610
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.960
of the people they fail before they start the race of the people who do start the race.

611
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:22.360
I think just for, for people, $7 million, almost all, you know what, it's not, I wouldn't

612
00:28:22.360 --> 00:28:23.920
even say it's at all levels.

613
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:25.120
Distraction is a huge one.

614
00:28:25.120 --> 00:28:29.120
They start six businesses in the hopes that one of them will take off because they fundamentally

615
00:28:29.120 --> 00:28:30.920
don't understand how business works.

616
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:34.360
Like you only have, you have very constrained resources in terms of time, money, effort, human

617
00:28:34.360 --> 00:28:38.200
capital, people, and you have to allocate all of those things to one business to just

618
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:40.120
have a hope that it's going to work.

619
00:28:40.120 --> 00:28:41.960
So I think focus is a massive one.

620
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.440
So that's got equal opposite of distraction.

621
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:49.240
And then in terms of beliefs, the belief is the early days, distraction kind of is pervasive.

622
00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:54.000
Sometimes it's just business model things, which I would just translate up to skilled efficiencies.

623
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.960
So once someone gets started, there's, there's, I think there's just two buckets.

624
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.760
You've got, you've got procedural knowledge and declarative knowledge, which is basically

625
00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:04.540
the two types of knowledge that exists, which is knowing how to do something and knowing

626
00:29:04.540 --> 00:29:07.240
that something exists or that something's possible.

627
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.880
And so this is where people talk about mindset, manifestate, whatever.

628
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.240
It's like fun, it's just like you have to believe that something is possible.

629
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:16.200
And so if you meet somebody who's doing $10 million, you're in their same age as you

630
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:17.200
grab the same hometown.

631
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.200
You're like, oh, I guess that's possible, right?

632
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:20.720
And all of a sudden, it's like, man, my perspective totally changed.

633
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:24.280
Like my mindset, I manifest, who knows, whatever, but like you fundamentally now believe

634
00:29:24.280 --> 00:29:25.280
it can happen.

635
00:29:25.280 --> 00:29:26.280
Cool.

636
00:29:26.280 --> 00:29:27.760
So then the only delta that you have is how to do it, right?

637
00:29:27.760 --> 00:29:28.760
That's procedural.

638
00:29:28.760 --> 00:29:31.600
So I could talk, like we could talk about private equity all day on here and somebody could

639
00:29:31.600 --> 00:29:34.080
listen to every private equity podcast in the world.

640
00:29:34.080 --> 00:29:37.840
You understand that people are doing it, but you don't understand how to do it.

641
00:29:37.840 --> 00:29:40.760
And you can understand all this stuff, but until you go through it, there's, you won't,

642
00:29:40.760 --> 00:29:42.480
you won't know how it works.

643
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:44.240
And then what you do, then you can do it again.

644
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:48.000
So what's some of the low-hanging fruit that people could start implementing today that

645
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.080
will make a long difference, that'll make a big difference long-term?

646
00:29:51.080 --> 00:29:55.840
I think shrinking the time between when you make a decision and when you take action

647
00:29:55.840 --> 00:30:01.600
on the decision is probably one of the strongest correlates with like high, high producers.

648
00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:03.920
And always talk about that.

649
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:08.600
Was there like a specific moment that you kind of had that realization and then ever since

650
00:30:08.600 --> 00:30:11.840
you made that decision, you're going to decrease that amount of time that like the business

651
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:13.000
went exponential.

652
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:14.760
So two things.

653
00:30:14.760 --> 00:30:22.280
So one is if you define a God being as omnipotent, then as they think things, things would

654
00:30:22.280 --> 00:30:23.400
exist.

655
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.360
And so if someone is ultimately powerful, then it means like the moment they think of it,

656
00:30:26.360 --> 00:30:27.360
it happens, right?

657
00:30:27.360 --> 00:30:31.400
And so it's like, okay, if that's the hypothetical ideal, then everything reversed from that

658
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:32.560
is less and less powerful.

659
00:30:32.560 --> 00:30:36.760
And so if I want to be a more potent person or less impotent, then I should shrink the

660
00:30:36.760 --> 00:30:40.120
time between when I make a decision and when I act on that decision and try to make

661
00:30:40.120 --> 00:30:41.120
it into a reality.

662
00:30:41.120 --> 00:30:42.640
So that's number one.

663
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:46.600
The second issue or when it comes to decision making is that the vast majority of speed,

664
00:30:46.600 --> 00:30:49.640
I think that happens within a business comes down to speed of decision making.

665
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:53.600
Like there are so many decisions that have to occur every single day that most of the time

666
00:30:53.600 --> 00:30:57.320
and you guys experience this within your own business, it's like, you know, the team says,

667
00:30:57.320 --> 00:30:58.480
hey, what do we do with here?

668
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.840
And then you're like, okay, let me think about that or let me give you a couple, like

669
00:31:01.840 --> 00:31:03.800
give me a day or two and I'll come back to you.

670
00:31:03.800 --> 00:31:07.800
But one of the good frameworks that I have is just asking myself a question, will I get

671
00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:10.200
more information to make this decision?

672
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.960
If the answer is no, then make the decision, like you're not going to get more information

673
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:16.480
to make it, see my soldiers make it now.

674
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:20.160
And so that, the interesting thing about that is like that speed though, a lot of times

675
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:23.880
people take, let's say seven days to make a decision or even a month to make a decision.

676
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.360
But if I can make a decision now and then make a second decision, two minutes later, make

677
00:31:27.360 --> 00:31:30.400
a third decision, two minutes later, in a very real way, I could operate at a thousand

678
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:32.680
times the speed, somebody else's.

679
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.840
And I think that's fundamentally like how Elon operates and how he can just get so much

680
00:31:35.840 --> 00:31:36.840
stuff down.

681
00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:39.240
He's obviously distributes a lot of decision, making people who are in tellger.

682
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:44.300
How important is intuition when it comes to making a decision that you just feel one

683
00:31:44.300 --> 00:31:45.440
thing over the other?

684
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:50.440
Well, I think intuition is just like a really, really amorphous word for having a history

685
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:55.640
of reinforcement with variables that you can identify, have trouble identifying.

686
00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.360
So it's like, you know, this girl walks in, I've got a bad feeling about her, that's

687
00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:01.360
my intuition.

688
00:32:01.360 --> 00:32:06.160
Well, you have a history of seeing lots of women walk in and if you have people or women

689
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:09.360
who looked a certain way or acted, you know, the way they carried themselves, the way

690
00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:11.360
they dressed, the way they're hair looked, the way they did their makeup, the way they

691
00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:13.760
talked, the way they breathed, the way they, all these are their variables that you're

692
00:32:13.760 --> 00:32:15.800
taking in.

693
00:32:15.800 --> 00:32:19.000
If somebody else in the past, you had a negative experience with you would then say, oh,

694
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:23.120
I'd be at bad vibes because it's just harder for you to be like, hey, subconscious.

695
00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:26.080
What was the variable that you identified that was similar to this other past experience

696
00:32:26.080 --> 00:32:28.320
that sucked harder to do?

697
00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:30.560
So do I trust intuition?

698
00:32:30.560 --> 00:32:32.480
I will definitely pay attention to it.

699
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.960
Will I believe that it's some magic power?

700
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:35.960
No.

701
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:37.960
I think it's just like, there's something that I haven't been able to identify.

702
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.960
Maybe if I spend more time thinking about it, I could maybe, you know, part of the way

703
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:44.200
it wasn't this, it wasn't this, it wasn't that, you know, this is what it was.

704
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:46.040
Now, you've met a lot of people, I'm sure.

705
00:32:46.040 --> 00:32:51.760
Do you have a BS meter to tell people, let me say, do you have a BS meter to tell if

706
00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:56.800
people are fake or if they're just maybe a bit of a fraud?

707
00:32:56.800 --> 00:32:59.120
I don't, I don't know if I have a BS meter.

708
00:32:59.120 --> 00:33:03.880
I think that asking questions can help a lot.

709
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.200
So like if someone just walked in and said, like, I am of this, I'm like, I don't know.

710
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:11.840
Maybe, you know, if I asked 10 more questions about that thing and I know more about that

711
00:33:11.840 --> 00:33:16.320
thing than they do, then I would have a better idea if someone was talking about how to train

712
00:33:16.320 --> 00:33:19.680
a sales team and they're like, I know how to do that.

713
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:21.720
I'd be like, okay, well, how do you think about this?

714
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:23.840
You know, how do you think about this?

715
00:33:23.840 --> 00:33:26.400
And if they gave bad answers, then I'd be like, okay, we don't really know how to train

716
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:27.400
a sales team.

717
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:32.440
And so it depends on my skill level within that domain that someone's supposed to, you

718
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:38.680
know, be good at, but beyond that, I think that people have a lot, I think I think people

719
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:43.880
have far more, I think people have far more experience deceiving other people than we

720
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:47.680
do protecting against deception.

721
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:50.080
So I think there's always going to be people who are more skilled at deception than people

722
00:33:50.080 --> 00:33:51.920
who are better at detecting it.

723
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:57.120
And so I'll say, honestly, I operate from the perspective that I don't know and that

724
00:33:57.120 --> 00:34:01.520
I'm probably being deceived and what I still do it anyways within these guardrails.

725
00:34:01.520 --> 00:34:03.560
And so I just try to operate that one.

726
00:34:03.560 --> 00:34:10.440
Mine tend to be if someone's doing really posed photos in front of expensive cars, usually

727
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:16.360
it depends on the industry, bad vibes, usually head to toe designer, like if they're really,

728
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:21.520
if this one I don't watch, like it has diamonds on it and then like you're in the music industry,

729
00:34:21.520 --> 00:34:22.520
which is fine.

730
00:34:22.520 --> 00:34:27.200
You have to be in the music industry, I feel like that's, that's kind of, okay, usually

731
00:34:27.200 --> 00:34:28.480
that's a red flag.

732
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:34.280
And then also when they describe what they do and you still don't understand how they

733
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:35.280
make their money.

734
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.800
There have been some people that just say, oh, I do this and I'm like, I don't get it.

735
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:43.560
If you explain it, and they explain it, and I still don't understand.

736
00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:47.720
And then it turns out the dude's just like siphoning money from somebody else and it turned

737
00:34:47.720 --> 00:34:52.160
out the whole thing with smoke and mirrors on my, I had a feeling about that guy.

738
00:34:52.160 --> 00:34:55.400
That I will say, well, it's funny because you say it because like then it gets into a

739
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:59.160
me that I feel comfortable with where if someone's like, well, this is how we market,

740
00:34:59.160 --> 00:35:00.160
blah, blah, blah, blah.

741
00:35:00.160 --> 00:35:01.160
This is how we sell.

742
00:35:01.160 --> 00:35:02.160
This is how we price.

743
00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:04.320
This is how we, you know, anything that's business related, I'll be like, no, that doesn't

744
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:05.320
make sense.

745
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:06.320
Yeah.

746
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.400
And it's like, I'm like, I'm, I feel, I feel confident enough in my, in my skill level

747
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:14.000
to say like, no, that doesn't, that doesn't make sense.

748
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.720
But yeah, so I think it's going to, it's going to be, it's going to be domain specific

749
00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:20.640
for me to be able to say like, I'll have a better judge of character, but still even

750
00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:25.880
then, you know, I get, I get, I get, yeah, I want to say deceived, but like, I make wrong

751
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:30.320
picks all the time, you know, with team and people, you know, hiring things like it happens,

752
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:31.640
you know, just part of the game.

753
00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:33.080
What about things that are too good to be true?

754
00:35:33.080 --> 00:35:35.920
How often are people pitching you things that seem to be that way?

755
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:41.120
And they're actually accurately representing their skill or the value of their business.

756
00:35:41.120 --> 00:35:43.960
I think the two good to be true is happens all the time.

757
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:49.680
And it is, I, I've yet to see something that has been too good to be true.

758
00:35:49.720 --> 00:35:52.440
I think chat GBT, when it came out, I was like, that's too good to be true.

759
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.240
And then it was so like, then they became a gazillion dollar company.

760
00:35:55.240 --> 00:35:56.760
I was like, okay, that checks out.

761
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:57.600
That tracks.

762
00:35:57.600 --> 00:36:01.960
But most things that are too good to be true, like, the saying exists for a reason.

763
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.600
When, when do you think the last time is that you drastically changed your opinion about

764
00:36:05.600 --> 00:36:07.200
something?

765
00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:08.680
It's a really good question.

766
00:36:08.680 --> 00:36:09.960
That's a chat GBT question.

767
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:11.280
Oh, there was a, I know that I'm kidding.

768
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:17.360
I was, that was a meadow, it's Jeff and I drastically changed my opinion about something.

769
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:18.640
Well, I'll give you two.

770
00:36:18.640 --> 00:36:20.440
So I mean, this is in years though.

771
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:21.600
So they're bigger.

772
00:36:21.600 --> 00:36:24.040
So I used to believe this is kind of funny.

773
00:36:24.040 --> 00:36:28.920
So my eighth episode of my podcast, which is 2017, was stop branding.

774
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:30.440
And I was like, branding is stupid.

775
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:32.680
Like just run ads with an offer.

776
00:36:32.680 --> 00:36:33.680
That's all that matters.

777
00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:34.680
Like do outbound.

778
00:36:34.680 --> 00:36:36.080
Like that's the only thing that drives sales.

779
00:36:36.080 --> 00:36:38.080
And it was because I just understand the power of brand.

780
00:36:38.080 --> 00:36:39.080
I didn't understand how to brand.

781
00:36:39.080 --> 00:36:40.760
I didn't understand the benefits of it.

782
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:44.400
Once I understood the power of brand, it's like, I've completely 180ed on that.

783
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.880
Like brand is everything.

784
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:47.920
So I would say that's something that I've changed my mind on.

785
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:51.280
Which is why I started making content and all this stuff.

786
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:58.640
The second one is, I, I mean, I built that position, not common, the thesis of doing

787
00:36:58.640 --> 00:37:03.440
many, many smaller minority deals and taking companies right at that kind of like awful

788
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:05.480
level that I was referencing earlier.

789
00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:10.400
I would say now in some ways, I feel like I have, was it re, re done the wheel, like

790
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:15.640
re, developed the wheel, reinvented the wheel into much more of a very standard product.

791
00:37:16.640 --> 00:37:18.920
Which is like, we go after bigger companies.

792
00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:21.880
And the main reason is like, the reason a lot of people don't like those smaller businesses

793
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:25.000
is because there's so much work that has to get done.

794
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.800
You have to, it's like you have to turn the whole team around like there's just so much

795
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:34.120
to get it over the hump, whereas something that $5 million, $10 million, $15 million profit,

796
00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:35.840
it's like they already have infrastructure in place.

797
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:40.760
You can actually do things a lot faster in the business in some ways because there's resources.

798
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:44.280
And so I would say that I've, I've shifted my perspective there, which is much more akin

799
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:47.960
to, I could have just listened to Warren Buffett and done it that way, but I figured no,

800
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.040
I just learned it myself, which is like, it's better to get wonderful businesses at a fair

801
00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:55.240
price than, you know, fair business at a wonderful price.

802
00:37:55.240 --> 00:37:58.520
Was there data or like a personal experience that supported that?

803
00:37:58.520 --> 00:38:04.920
Yeah, I mean, we did 20, we did 20, I was either 22 or 24 deals in the first 24 months

804
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:07.240
of acquisition.com.

805
00:38:07.240 --> 00:38:13.960
And like portfolio theory has rained true, like 90% of our returns have come from two companies.

806
00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:19.720
And so, but those companies, if I had to make a bet, I probably would have bet that those

807
00:38:19.720 --> 00:38:24.600
would have been, they had the strongest operators, they had the strongest, they just general

808
00:38:24.600 --> 00:38:27.480
intelligence of the teams, you know, good opportunities.

809
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.840
Like there's that, they had checked more boxes than like, I didn't have to use as much

810
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.200
imagination to see it working.

811
00:38:32.200 --> 00:38:32.600
Yeah.

812
00:38:32.600 --> 00:38:38.200
And so the thing, the downside about me is I know it's better slash investors that I am an optimist.

813
00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:41.800
And so I can see the version of the business that I think could be awesome and I get really excited

814
00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:44.920
about that, but you have to buy based on what it is today, know what it could be.

815
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:47.320
How important is intelligence in entrepreneurship?

816
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:49.960
I think it depends on what level of success you're shooting for.

817
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:51.240
Okay.

818
00:38:51.240 --> 00:38:56.280
So I think that, I think like if you were like, I want to get into AI, like you've got to be

819
00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:57.640
probably really smart.

820
00:38:57.640 --> 00:39:00.760
And I think it's not even because like you're the one who's going to be the engineer doing it.

821
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:03.880
It's like, you need to be smart enough that an engineer who couldn't do that is impressed by you.

822
00:39:04.520 --> 00:39:04.760
Right.

823
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:09.320
Like so, I think, I think it's really in the recruiting aspect where high intellect, if you will,

824
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:12.600
matter more, if you were, you know, use the long carry example.

825
00:39:12.600 --> 00:39:15.960
Like you can succeed in the long carry business without being brilliant.

826
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.200
You can succeed in the gym business without being brilliant.

827
00:39:18.200 --> 00:39:20.520
You can succeed in a lot of businesses.

828
00:39:20.520 --> 00:39:25.560
I'd say most businesses without being, you know, about 50% IQ.

829
00:39:25.560 --> 00:39:29.800
I think there are, there are skills which people say is traits that are more important

830
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:31.720
than encourage is incredibly important.

831
00:39:31.720 --> 00:39:35.400
I think high agency said the ability to make your own decisions without being influenced by others.

832
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:41.880
I think, I think, honestly, just like perspicacity, like being able to endure and persevere.

833
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.440
Because one of the really interesting things about entrepreneurship is that you get,

834
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:48.840
life gives you this like, these unlimited lottery tickets.

835
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:54.920
And you just pay time to get them, but you just can always get them to cash them in.

836
00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:59.800
And even if you cash 10 tickets in and they don't, don't work, it's like you still have

837
00:40:00.120 --> 00:40:02.040
11th one, you still have a 12th one.

838
00:40:02.040 --> 00:40:05.320
And so a lot of people just will choose not to cash the tickets in at all,

839
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.240
or even grab the tickets to begin with.

840
00:40:07.240 --> 00:40:11.400
And I think that that ability to persevere is what gives you more shots on goal.

841
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:14.280
And you only need one really big win to change your life forever.

842
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:15.800
And so it's really just sticking with it.

843
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.680
And I think that's the like, on a long enough time rise,

844
00:40:18.680 --> 00:40:22.200
and somebody sticks with it, just gets enough, like they just get so many chances that something

845
00:40:22.200 --> 00:40:23.240
that luck does happen.

846
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:27.480
So on those two businesses that you said are outliers.

847
00:40:27.640 --> 00:40:31.960
What percentage would you allocate to being the person in charge of running it versus the

848
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:37.000
business itself? Man, I'll say 50, 50. Like I was going back and forth.

849
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:41.240
That's like, you know, because Uncle Warren has great manager, bad market, bad market wins.

850
00:40:42.120 --> 00:40:45.160
You know, good market, bad manager, good market wins.

851
00:40:45.160 --> 00:40:47.720
I think that like the market is for sure the most powerful thing,

852
00:40:47.720 --> 00:40:51.800
but if we control for market, like, if you're still in toilet paper and COVID,

853
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:54.840
you're going to make money whether you're an idiot or not, like it's going to work.

854
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:57.480
But I think the vast majority of marketplaces are not on either extreme.

855
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:00.680
You're not selling to newspapers and you're not selling toilet paper during COVID.

856
00:41:00.680 --> 00:41:03.720
Most businesses are just kind of like in the middle. They're in markets that are just normal.

857
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:08.120
And in those situations, the business model obviously has to be sound,

858
00:41:08.120 --> 00:41:10.200
but the business model is a reflection of the entrepreneur.

859
00:41:10.200 --> 00:41:13.480
And so if we remove market, then I'll say it's entrepreneur for sure.

860
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:17.160
But market is more important if it's in one of these extremes.

861
00:41:17.720 --> 00:41:21.480
What qualities do you see in those people? Are there similarities between the two?

862
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.080
Yeah, there's, you know, it's interesting because there's like, there's,

863
00:41:25.080 --> 00:41:28.200
there's for sure similarities. I think there's far fewer than most people expect.

864
00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:31.720
Because like even if you look at the top entrepreneurs, like I think Basos and Elon are some of the

865
00:41:31.720 --> 00:41:36.280
goats of all time in terms of entrepreneurship, so different in terms of their personalities,

866
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:40.440
the way they behave, their even values, like all those things. I think they have some significant

867
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:43.960
differences. But in terms of like what are the commonalities about how they operate?

868
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:48.440
They all focus on speed. They focus on having an exceptional product, both of them talk about just,

869
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:52.920
I mean, Elon is a customer's test. He says product success, but they translate the same thing,

870
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:57.480
which is like they focus on product first above everything else. They're super long-term focused.

871
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.920
People might have, you know, some should, something to say about me saying this.

872
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:04.280
But like, I think they both have high ethics. They're like, oh, he's devil, but

873
00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:11.720
whatever. I won't even come. He's unbelievable. But high ethics, high customer obsession,

874
00:42:11.720 --> 00:42:16.440
long-term perspective, huge ability to tolerate pain, and the ability to tolerate risk,

875
00:42:16.520 --> 00:42:20.280
which is to have the courage to do it. And because both of them had so many moments where they just

876
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:26.520
went all in on Amazon or all in on Tesla or SpaceX or whatever, it's like you have to have

877
00:42:26.520 --> 00:42:31.640
some ability to make to go big and bet the farm. And I think that every entrepreneur, that

878
00:42:31.640 --> 00:42:35.400
almost every entrepreneur that I know who's made it really big has had a moment where they're like,

879
00:42:36.040 --> 00:42:39.960
this could not work. And I'm just going to try and make it work.

880
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:44.440
It's so interesting because I feel like there's a huge trend online right now and also maybe for

881
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:49.480
the past like five, 10 years of there can never be an ethical billionaire. Do you think in order

882
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:53.080
to get to that level of wealth, there needs to be a time where you compromise or ethics? Or do you

883
00:42:53.080 --> 00:42:57.160
think that's just a bunch of stuff that people like, like to throw out there to maybe self-aggrandize

884
00:42:57.160 --> 00:43:04.520
themselves? I think it's, well, as somebody's going to go ahead, as someone who's, I am biased.

885
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:10.200
So I'll state my bias. I am trying to hit it or in process of hitting it. And so I obviously

886
00:43:10.200 --> 00:43:15.800
don't think that there's an ethical like that you have to. I think I'll say differently. If you

887
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:20.520
took a random slice of the population, just just America or even the world, you're going to have

888
00:43:20.520 --> 00:43:23.160
certain percentage people who are ethical or have certain percentage people who are not ethical.

889
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:28.680
And the skills to run a business I think can operate in some ways independently of those things.

890
00:43:28.680 --> 00:43:32.440
So you can become super financially successful and be unethical and you can be super financially

891
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:35.960
successful and be ethical. And so I think that you'll have a distribution that is normalized

892
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:40.280
at the top as much as you do in the middle. Like how many people are divorced? How many people

893
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:43.320
are married? How many people are like, you're going to have, how many people have kids? How many

894
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:46.680
people have kids? Like, you're going to have a random distribution there. And I think people

895
00:43:46.680 --> 00:43:52.360
will just cherry pick bad actors. And there's also like allegations based on like regulations.

896
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:56.360
Like if you look at all the big fortune, whatever companies, it really starts to come down to like,

897
00:43:56.360 --> 00:44:01.000
what do you, if we, I mean, it gets into ethics, which is a totally different kind of worms. But

898
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:06.520
if you're to say like, you know, the TCPA, which is telephone, consumer protection, agency,

899
00:44:06.520 --> 00:44:11.160
whatever, they go after a company. And it was because the company didn't put the right language

900
00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:15.560
on their, you know, landing page. And because of that, they sued Facebook for $700 million.

901
00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:22.600
Is Facebook being unethical? Or are they operating in ignorance? Oftentimes when you have more laws

902
00:44:22.600 --> 00:44:26.600
than you can keep track of or somebody makes an oopsie, those things happen. And so it really

903
00:44:26.600 --> 00:44:29.400
depends like, okay, well, are we now saying that Facebook's unethical? No, I'm not saying that

904
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.080
I think that they're good for the world. But I'm saying fundamentally like, I think mistakes can

905
00:44:33.080 --> 00:44:40.120
happen. And so the idea that people will say a billionaire might be unethical is probably different

906
00:44:40.120 --> 00:44:45.240
than a billionaire has made mistakes. And I think those are very two very different things. Because

907
00:44:45.240 --> 00:44:49.800
for sure, every billionaires may mistakes. And for sure has done things that they wish they hadn't

908
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:57.480
because that's what humans do in life. Real quick guys, I have a special, special gift for you

909
00:44:57.560 --> 00:45:03.320
for being loyal listeners of the podcast. Layla and I spent probably an entire quarter putting

910
00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:10.840
together our scaling roadmap. It's breaking scaling into 10 stages and across all eight functions

911
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:14.120
of the business. So you've got marketing, you've got sales, you've got product, you got customer

912
00:45:14.120 --> 00:45:18.600
success, you've got IT, you've got recruiting, you've got HR, you've got finance. And we show the

913
00:45:18.600 --> 00:45:23.000
problems that emerged at every level of scale and how to graduate to the next level. It's all free

914
00:45:23.080 --> 00:45:28.040
and you can get it personalized to you since about 30-ish pages for each of the stages.

915
00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:32.600
Once you answer the questions, it will tell you exactly where you're at and what you need to do

916
00:45:32.600 --> 00:45:37.320
to grow. It's about 14 hours of stuff, but it's narrowed down so that you only have to watch the

917
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.920
part that's relevant to you, which will probably be about 90 minutes. And so if that's at all

918
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:46.280
interesting, you can go to acquisition.com forward slash road map, R-O-A-D map, road map.

919
00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:52.920
What's a mistake you made recently that may have either cost you time,

920
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:59.800
money or credibility? Oh God. I invested in a company that I didn't do enough to diligence

921
00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:02.920
and they were doing some things that were compliant that I found out about later.

922
00:46:03.640 --> 00:46:09.000
And I just said I don't want to be associated and I lost millions of dollars and I just said

923
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:13.080
I'll give you the equity back. I don't even want it. I just don't want to be associated.

924
00:46:13.080 --> 00:46:17.400
And so, there. What could you have done differently?

925
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:24.120
Could I know that? What do you look for when? We probably could have reviewed the internal

926
00:46:24.120 --> 00:46:28.760
data better. Probably could have done more in-depth interviews with some of the key employees.

927
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:34.120
Could have done more customer call reviews both on sales side and marketing side and also on

928
00:46:34.120 --> 00:46:38.840
the delivery side. We probably could have done more of that. It was a relatively small deal for

929
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:43.240
us though, but still ethically it was. Was there any tells? Maybe before

930
00:46:43.240 --> 00:46:46.200
Hayber or you kind of drove somewhere to the guy that they're posing in front of his cars?

931
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:53.320
And it's ice out, row, row. No, we didn't have any of that. But I'm going to for sure catch

932
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:58.680
catch some dogs. If you were to observe all of the mistakes that acquisition.com makes and

933
00:46:58.680 --> 00:47:03.400
aside it like a pie chart, would you say the largest slice of the pie would be lack of due diligence?

934
00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:08.280
Or where do you think you lose the most return or value? Where are the mistakes that we make?

935
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:12.280
I think the biggest mistakes we make are hiring. I think it's people. But it's really

936
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:17.000
fundamentally, it's going to be people at all sides. People on the deal side is me. Even when you're

937
00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:21.480
bringing in talent, it's a deal. You're signing an agreement between two parties and exchange for

938
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:29.720
money. The number of deals that we have to do every day, every week, every month, every year is

939
00:47:29.720 --> 00:47:33.320
a lot. And so we're just going to make mistakes. We're going to try our best to learn from them,

940
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:37.240
and we're ultimately going to be rewarded by the quality of our decision making, but we're going

941
00:47:37.240 --> 00:47:43.080
to mess up. When do you know how to cut the business or try to fix it? Like in that case,

942
00:47:43.080 --> 00:47:48.680
I would be looking at that and thinking, well, is it worth trying to, or is it just we can't work

943
00:47:48.680 --> 00:47:52.760
with these things. No, it's a good, it's that last thing you just said. That's really what it comes

944
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:58.600
down to. So if someone I think is knows about it and hasn't done anything about it, and then we find

945
00:47:58.600 --> 00:48:01.480
out about it and say, hey, you should do something about it and they don't do anything about it,

946
00:48:02.040 --> 00:48:07.080
that's where I'd be like, okay, this isn't going to work. If founders made aware of it,

947
00:48:07.080 --> 00:48:10.840
it's kind of like the TCPA thing. If let's say you had opt-ins on a page and you just didn't have

948
00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:14.600
like all the disclosures that you're supposed to have to make it compliant to like text somebody

949
00:48:14.600 --> 00:48:19.000
or call somebody or whatever, right? If someone did that, I'm not going to be like, oh my God,

950
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:24.040
this guy sucks. I'd be like, oh, he didn't know. Let's fix this stuff. And so that's kind of an

951
00:48:24.040 --> 00:48:30.040
example. Now it really comes down to the willingness of the founder to make things right. Do you think

952
00:48:30.040 --> 00:48:33.880
that's anybody? Yeah. Do you have assessments of ethics of the people that you end up

953
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:37.160
partnering with and how important would you say ethics are? Do you not really consider it and

954
00:48:37.160 --> 00:48:41.640
you just kind of look at you look at the data as you suggest because you can ask someone why they

955
00:48:41.640 --> 00:48:45.640
do something and they could say whatever they want, but you don't necessarily know until you've

956
00:48:45.640 --> 00:48:50.120
known them for a while. I feel like there should be a personality test. Jordan Petersen personality

957
00:48:50.120 --> 00:48:56.440
test. Do you have them? He does. Or you'd hate 10 or 15 bucks. I understand myself.com. I think

958
00:48:56.440 --> 00:49:02.040
is what it is. Yeah, we took it. But it was a really, and you can also compare a lot to a lot

959
00:49:02.040 --> 00:49:05.960
to, you know, like, you know, like, there's like, I'm a pepperoni pizza, like the, like what kind of

960
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:10.760
pizza? Like I'm joking. Yeah, it was like fake. I'm slither in by the way. Yeah, I'm for sure slither.

961
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:15.400
It's, it's interesting because you can also, with this data, compare how two personalities will

962
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:19.560
interact with one another. So for example, Graham and I, we were pretty different in a lot of

963
00:49:19.560 --> 00:49:24.440
other worries, but it did say that we had good cohesion. Oh, sweet. Yeah. But they had studies for

964
00:49:24.520 --> 00:49:29.640
like business and for personality and of a relationship. With large data, you could probably get a

965
00:49:29.640 --> 00:49:34.600
pretty good, a proximate usually interest. I don't think we have enough data to actually do like

966
00:49:34.600 --> 00:49:38.520
big data, like analysis for that. So you're thinking of 20s, 30s. Like it's not a lot. It's not

967
00:49:38.520 --> 00:49:44.280
not any like 30,000, a lot more and defts to go power. We actually used to do a lot more tests

968
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:48.840
earlier on. And I think we ended up foregoing them. Same with the recruiting side. We used to do

969
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:53.480
a lot more like personality testing, things like that. Mostly because the recruiting team ended

970
00:49:53.560 --> 00:49:57.480
being like over a lion on tests and then we'll just like have a stark end it and they were like,

971
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:01.400
well, they, they scored, I'm like, this guy's just that, like, bring this guy in. And so we ended

972
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:07.720
up doing away with it. I think everybody wants a test to tell them the answer. And so I think in

973
00:50:07.720 --> 00:50:12.600
a, in a job where you have a lot of decision making that has to occur, it's hard to not default to

974
00:50:12.600 --> 00:50:17.160
tests because it's so quantitative that you want to just like, it's just kind of like trading out

975
00:50:17.160 --> 00:50:21.400
of them. So like, the algorithm says, I like, you want to have that. And so fundamentally, either it's

976
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:28.760
like, I tend to be somewhat binary in this. But like, either we believe this 100% or we kind of

977
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:33.560
don't. And the only times, and I'll quote Layla on this one, but like if we do have a test that

978
00:50:33.560 --> 00:50:37.880
we're going to have somebody take on like the recruiting side, the only time that we would really

979
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:42.840
use it, if it's a red flag in that it seems like it's completely contrast from what we're seeing.

980
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:47.960
And so if someone's like, Oh, I'm really deterrented. I'm really timely. I'm really whatever.

981
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:51.320
And then they get all, they're like, I'm a creative. And I'm so all over the end of like,

982
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:54.200
nah, that doesn't make sense. So then we're just like, okay, now it's just an ethical issue.

983
00:50:54.200 --> 00:50:58.680
There's just lying. So you're saying you don't want to focus on qualifying someone because

984
00:50:58.680 --> 00:51:02.040
if you're testing them, that means you probably have some dissonance between what you think about

985
00:51:02.040 --> 00:51:05.560
them and what they say about themselves. And if you, yeah, I think you will, like,

986
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:11.640
there's going to be more as a company owner than anything else, which is like,

987
00:51:12.200 --> 00:51:15.320
if you tend to give a team a tool and they have to make a lot of decisions and the tool

988
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:20.360
supposedly helps them with the decision, the law of least effort will typically reign and

989
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:23.240
they'll just start using the test to make all the decisions. And I think that makes for

990
00:51:23.240 --> 00:51:27.560
worse decisions than actually just using everything else. So if someone's studying you, let's just

991
00:51:27.560 --> 00:51:31.880
say, what do you think is the biggest misinterpretation of your strategy or character?

992
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:38.760
I think most people think that I'm meaner than I am. I think he's a sweet heart, guys. So

993
00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:43.240
Alex is really a nice, so nice on and off camera, very, very outstanding gentleman.

994
00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:48.120
Thank you. Oh, I think that. And then also in like a different setting than like a podcast,

995
00:51:48.120 --> 00:51:52.200
you know, it's like, you know, it's like, when I'm with my team, I joke around a ton. And so,

996
00:51:52.200 --> 00:51:58.280
I'd say like, I do a lot of jokes a lot. And I think I have, I mean, Daniel could probably say,

997
00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:03.080
but I think, yeah, what's your funniest joke? Get it said. Give this a chance. I have a lot,

998
00:52:03.080 --> 00:52:06.440
I have a ton of things revealed. I've asked a lot of, I've said like dirty, dirty,

999
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:11.640
on the surface. Yeah, in a rage like a true grandma man. Yeah, a lot of a lot of a lot of,

1000
00:52:11.640 --> 00:52:15.960
that's what your mom said. That's that's Graham's favorite. Say hello. It's a classic. It's a

1001
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:20.920
class for Jack. I'm always like, yeah, okay, mom's going to watch this. Oh, yeah,

1002
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:26.680
cats out the bag. Yeah, smoke show. No. But no, I say that there's probably two,

1003
00:52:26.680 --> 00:52:31.640
the two bigger misconceptions. So moving on from that, how do you eliminate distraction?

1004
00:52:31.640 --> 00:52:38.440
Oh, this is fun. Okay. So I eliminated it by eliminating it. And that sounds ridiculous. But like,

1005
00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:42.920
I think the vast majority of productivity hacks can get boiled down to remove everything that

1006
00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:49.400
isn't work. So like my office has no outside light. I try to minimize all the sound in the office.

1007
00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:54.680
I also put on earplugs and headphones. There's a great app that you can use that like blocks your

1008
00:52:54.680 --> 00:52:59.240
phone. So like nothing can get through. So including text phone calls, slacks, everything, not

1009
00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:04.440
just social media. Like, it's a dead element essentially. And you have to physically move across

1010
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:11.000
the building, which is how I do it for mine. So like, un, un, un, mess up your phone. And then I

1011
00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:13.800
just have a clear idea of the worth that I need to do. And so it's like, when you eliminate

1012
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:19.000
everything else, and then I just set a kitchen timer for when I, how long I expect to test the last,

1013
00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:24.680
that is when I'm like peak productivity per unit of time, because there's nothing else to do.

1014
00:53:24.680 --> 00:53:29.400
So is this science or is this just you? Because eliminating, eliminating natural light,

1015
00:53:30.200 --> 00:53:35.000
we see your office after this. I want to get a peak at that. Yeah. Yeah. What is this?

1016
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:41.240
But why eliminate? Why eliminate like, would we live it? Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. Why light?

1017
00:53:41.240 --> 00:53:46.200
For me, like, I get, oh, I get so distracted by like, I get boosted by like seeing the outdoors

1018
00:53:46.200 --> 00:53:51.240
and seeing greenery. That's nice. It doesn't work for me, man. Yeah. And I'll, I'll be clear. Like,

1019
00:53:51.240 --> 00:53:54.040
if you find something that works for you, I'll say, do that. And for anybody who's like,

1020
00:53:54.040 --> 00:53:58.440
I do do it your way. I don't care. Like, I'm saying, this is what I do. I do think there's a decent

1021
00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:03.640
amount of data that suggests that anything that is not the work distracts you from the work.

1022
00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:10.520
How do you differentiate between distractions and rest? Great question. So I think there's,

1023
00:54:10.520 --> 00:54:14.440
there's like kind of like micro macro. So like from micro perspective, if you work for 60 minutes or

1024
00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:18.120
45 minutes or whatever, and then you're like, okay, I need a break. If you take the five or 10,

1025
00:54:18.120 --> 00:54:21.480
you know, 10 minute like walk around the building or walk outside, to me, that's where you can get

1026
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:25.080
your natural light and all that stuff. But then you come back and then you're fresh again and then

1027
00:54:25.080 --> 00:54:30.200
you hit it. I see that, I see that rest as productive because it increases the overall net production

1028
00:54:30.200 --> 00:54:35.720
over a larger period of time. So if you work like that for 12 hours and you worked without doing

1029
00:54:35.720 --> 00:54:39.080
that, maybe you can only work eight hours or you can work the same 12, but you don't get as much

1030
00:54:39.080 --> 00:54:43.560
done. So for me, it's really just the net productivity for human beings is what they could

1031
00:54:43.560 --> 00:54:48.200
done over a period of time. So productivity has a temporal component to it and an output component.

1032
00:54:48.200 --> 00:54:51.720
So maximizing output per unit of time is productivity as I find it. And so

1033
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:58.840
that is okay. Anything that increases that rate of work, which for the most part is just

1034
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:04.280
deleting the things that aren't work because few people actually work faster. You just don't work

1035
00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:07.160
when you want to be working. And so I think if you just limit all the time that you're not working,

1036
00:55:07.160 --> 00:55:10.440
when you want to be working, you work a lot more. And if you've ever done the timer thing,

1037
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:15.320
which I would highly recommend, you see, if you like, you truly take your phone away and you block

1038
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:18.920
out every single notification and you have, you know, you have the script of YouTube video or write

1039
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:23.000
an email or make a script or whatever you have to do for your business or write and make a landing

1040
00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:27.080
page, you'll notice that like, you'll be like, oh my god. And then you'll look, it's been like eight

1041
00:55:27.080 --> 00:55:31.800
minutes and you're like, oh my god. Like you're like monkey brain. I wouldn't it not like sleeping when

1042
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:36.120
I keep looking at the time and thinking, oh man, other 10 minutes went by. It's another 10 minutes

1043
00:55:36.120 --> 00:55:40.520
I'm not going to be sleeping. Do you ever look at the time and see, oh, 10 minutes went by.

1044
00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:44.280
Now I only got this amount of time and it reminds focused on the time and not the task.

1045
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:49.000
I don't think about that at all, actually. If I like, if eight minutes goes by and I worked

1046
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:52.680
the eight minutes and I'm like, oh my god, it was only eight minutes. I'm like, I have so much time.

1047
00:55:52.680 --> 00:55:56.200
Like I did all that in eight minutes because I was focused all the time and I only

1048
00:55:56.200 --> 00:55:59.880
wanted to go reach for my phone at eight minutes. I'm like, oh my god. I have six months.

1049
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:03.320
You don't see this. I am as a distraction, though, not really. I wouldn't see it.

1050
00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:07.720
Getting into that deep focus. If you're going around and taking maybe like 15 minutes every hour

1051
00:56:07.720 --> 00:56:13.080
and a half or so, how do you switch context again to go from like enjoying the sun lighter,

1052
00:56:13.080 --> 00:56:18.600
enjoying relaxation into deep focus? I think it's probably like most skills. It's just practice.

1053
00:56:18.600 --> 00:56:22.600
I think the more you work, the better you get at working. I mean, I know that how I worked when I

1054
00:56:22.600 --> 00:56:26.360
was younger, I was not nearly as productive as I am now. I also worked on things that were lower

1055
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:30.520
leverage. So it's kind of like I get two benefits. I get more done per unit of time and the things

1056
00:56:30.520 --> 00:56:35.000
I work on create more. Do you have any distractions that still sneak past your filters?

1057
00:56:36.600 --> 00:56:41.320
Oh, no, I'm not on the phone. I mean, that thing's done. Twitter, like it's cooked. Twitter?

1058
00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:44.600
No, I mean, when I'm working, I'm not going to do that music. He listen to music.

1059
00:56:44.600 --> 00:56:50.040
Though it was a silence. Yeah, I have ear plugs and headphones. Like it's true silence.

1060
00:56:50.040 --> 00:56:55.000
What do you listen to when you lift? Oh, just like the same songs I've had for like 15 years.

1061
00:56:55.000 --> 00:57:00.120
What's not really changed? I like Lincoln Park a lot. A little Lincoln Park hybrid theory.

1062
00:57:00.120 --> 00:57:03.800
The new one. Is that the new one? No, hybrid theory is like the 2000s.

1063
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:07.240
Is it the hard one? I only cut the album cover. Sure, it's like the black one.

1064
00:57:07.240 --> 00:57:13.560
The black and white one with Roland and like, I think so. Yeah, that's a good one. I am horrendous at

1065
00:57:14.200 --> 00:57:19.320
like the words. Like I cannot tell you the words of any song and I've listened to the same songs

1066
00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:23.160
for like a decade. I don't know lyrics either. I listen to the melody but not the word. Yeah, I don't

1067
00:57:23.160 --> 00:57:28.360
hear it. I don't know the I don't know the album name. I like I barely even know it's Lincoln Park.

1068
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:33.320
Okay. But I just know because I like that radio station. But what else do you say is Lincoln Park?

1069
00:57:33.320 --> 00:57:39.080
I listen to 50 cent. I like 50 cent. Get Richard I try and defend our album. Fabulous

1070
00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:44.200
has a lovely album. It's first one I think. I think it's self-named to think Fabulous. I like that

1071
00:57:44.200 --> 00:57:48.920
album. I still also like some of my white boy music. I still listen to Little Green Day. Little

1072
00:57:48.920 --> 00:57:53.080
Green Day blind, Little Third Eye blind. That's good. A lot of them are lay low just because she's

1073
00:57:53.080 --> 00:57:57.400
like always up to date. I'm like what's what's hot and popping off. I also really like UK rap.

1074
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:02.520
I've actually found that as a little subgenre that only only because Spotify recommended it for me.

1075
00:58:02.520 --> 00:58:07.720
Yeah. Like band for band which is cool song. I like that. But yeah, I like I like I only have like

1076
00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:13.160
you know 20 or 30 songs that I can listen to like in a workout. So it's like I kind of have like

1077
00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:17.640
a list of 100 and they ran in my shuffle and that's like my life. How often do you skip the song?

1078
00:58:17.640 --> 00:58:21.320
It depends on what kind of set I'm doing. Okay. It's like if I'm early like if I'm a bad

1079
00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:24.760
set of works out like I want to make sure it's a good song. But I think that's everybody.

1080
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:30.680
Okay. Yeah, you guys I'll show you guys the gym. Yeah. You haven't seen the gym, right?

1081
00:58:30.680 --> 00:58:34.360
I know. I like a show where it's less right? It isn't crazy. I saw the it's like a hydraulic

1082
00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:38.200
something or air to impress something that was incredible. I'll show you the new thing that just

1083
00:58:38.200 --> 00:58:41.000
came out. I think it's a change the little gym in the tree. I think it's going to change the

1084
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:46.760
gym. Is that that I saw this a Will Tennyson video where it's like you do like three reps of a

1085
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:51.640
chest press or something like that. And it it maxes out your strength. It's all different.

1086
00:58:51.640 --> 00:58:57.240
Okay. It's a different thing. Okay. It's different, but similar concept. I've wanted to do that.

1087
00:58:57.240 --> 00:59:03.800
Yeah. So do you think distracted people then just want less? Oh, I don't even know how to

1088
00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:08.360
find wanting it less. I would say that for whatever reason, they're being more rewarded from their

1089
00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:13.000
current path than they perceive the reward of the path that they're trying to get on. Like it's

1090
00:59:13.560 --> 00:59:17.800
I think everything in carrots and sticks that's like they have enough stick of other people judging

1091
00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:22.120
and enough carrot if staying the same that they don't change. They just have to overcome inertia.

1092
00:59:22.120 --> 00:59:26.360
They just can't do it for whatever reason. And I don't want to pretend like I have some like superhuman

1093
00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:32.040
willpower. It's just like, you know, I had, you know, it's funny because like when I quit my job,

1094
00:59:32.040 --> 00:59:34.840
which was still to this day, the hardest decision I've ever had to make my whole life.

1095
00:59:35.640 --> 00:59:38.920
Because believe it or not, I'm actually very risk averse. I can take bigger bets now, but it's

1096
00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:44.360
because I have more. And so like if I lose, it's not like the end of the world. But at the time,

1097
00:59:44.360 --> 00:59:52.520
there was like risking everything or what felt like risking everything. And that was it was because I

1098
00:59:52.520 --> 00:59:58.680
was so miserable. It was the only reason I was able to do it. Like if I had been employed, it

1099
00:59:58.680 --> 01:00:03.160
probably just even a different job at a different place, I probably would have been fine. And I don't

1100
01:00:03.160 --> 01:00:08.520
think I'd ever even be here. So I don't think I had a high like predisposition towards entrepreneurship.

1101
01:00:08.520 --> 01:00:11.800
Like some people do. Like I've been asked for over my whole life. Like I wasn't. I didn't start any

1102
01:00:11.800 --> 01:00:16.280
businesses. I did well in school. It was like, oh, school failed me. Like I did well in school.

1103
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:19.080
Like I studied hard. I got good grades. I graduated in three years from Vanderbilt. Like I did

1104
01:00:19.080 --> 01:00:23.800
well. And then I got a good job, you know, in terms of all paper after that. And it was only like when

1105
01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:28.040
I had done two years there and that normally you'd go to like business school that I was like, I

1106
01:00:28.040 --> 01:00:32.200
hate this. I don't want to do this again. And I would rather take a shot. So it's spurred from being

1107
01:00:32.200 --> 01:00:37.880
discontent with where you're at. That's interesting because that is exactly what led to me trying out

1108
01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:41.160
all of these different business ideas and this starting up this thing with Graham. But I never

1109
01:00:41.160 --> 01:00:45.560
asked you like, why what would what motivated you in that beginning that planted that seed

1110
01:00:45.560 --> 01:00:49.880
to try to, you know, become big and real estate or on YouTube? Was it because you were discontent

1111
01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:53.400
with where you were at? Or just honestly, it was it's the stupidest thing. It was that,

1112
01:00:54.280 --> 01:00:59.400
it was a candidate entry. Yeah, with data, it was doing data entry. I wanted to be an investment

1113
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:03.640
banker just because I was like, they make a lot of money. I just wanted to be successful.

1114
01:01:04.200 --> 01:01:09.720
And I would email all of these investment firms just asking to do anything for free. I'm like,

1115
01:01:09.720 --> 01:01:16.440
I'll get you water. I'll make copies. Just let me do anything and I'll just be there. And I emailed

1116
01:01:16.440 --> 01:01:21.400
maybe like six, seven places that I found on Craigslist. So like two of them turned out to be like

1117
01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:27.800
MLM companies. And one emailed me back and said, yes, actually, we're looking for a data entry

1118
01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:32.760
position. If you want to interview it, come on in. And I interviewed and it looked fantastic. And

1119
01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:39.160
they had like a sales team on the front in a back off back office in a back. And they hired me

1120
01:01:39.160 --> 01:01:44.200
to do data entry at I think back then, it was like eight dollars an hour. And I was so excited to

1121
01:01:44.200 --> 01:01:49.240
go in because they made you wear like a suit every day. And I was like, I get to wear a suit to work

1122
01:01:49.240 --> 01:01:55.160
that's so cool. And I went in there and everyone is a zombie. Yeah. And everyone just hated life.

1123
01:01:55.160 --> 01:02:01.240
Yeah. And the first like day was okay. But I started getting in trouble for stupid things.

1124
01:02:01.560 --> 01:02:06.040
Like I wanted to wear a headphone to listen to something throughout the day. I mean,

1125
01:02:06.040 --> 01:02:11.720
yeah. And they said, I couldn't do that. And then I made a comment about they had styrofoam

1126
01:02:11.720 --> 01:02:15.560
cups. And I said that like the paper cups were better for the environment. And they said,

1127
01:02:15.560 --> 01:02:19.160
we're not changing. They got really upset that I even made that suggestion. And then I went

1128
01:02:19.160 --> 01:02:24.120
up to the CEO's office one day. This was it all in the first week. Just to say hi to the guy

1129
01:02:24.120 --> 01:02:28.360
and introduce myself. And I'm like, I've just started working here. And he wasn't in the middle

1130
01:02:28.360 --> 01:02:32.920
of something. And he was friendly to me. But I got called into the managers office later that day.

1131
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:36.920
And they said, Hey, there's a chain of command. Like you can't just go up to this person and talk to

1132
01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:40.440
him. You have to talk to this manager, get their approval. It goes to me. And then I could,

1133
01:02:41.160 --> 01:02:47.240
made no sense. But I hated it there. And the only time that people came to life was Friday at like

1134
01:02:47.240 --> 01:02:53.480
4 p.m. And you started seeing people laughing and joking around and like being themselves. And

1135
01:02:53.560 --> 01:02:57.480
then I remember there was like, they had like a casual, like one day a month. They had like a

1136
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:02.360
casual day where people could wear like jeans into the office. I thought that was just stupid.

1137
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:10.040
After a while, like I didn't get it. But yet that, that single job made me hate life so much that

1138
01:03:10.040 --> 01:03:13.720
I would do anything to never return to that. Because I honestly thought if this is the next like

1139
01:03:13.720 --> 01:03:17.800
30 years or I cast it, yeah, if this is it. But you were willing to do something for free.

1140
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:22.680
Which was, yes, just into the real estate thing. Correct. But also during that time, they had a

1141
01:03:22.680 --> 01:03:26.680
sales team in the front. I said, I'd be a great salesperson. I just wanted to do sales. And they

1142
01:03:26.680 --> 01:03:31.800
were making like a hundred, like 300 grand a year doing like phone sales. I wanted to do that. And

1143
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:37.800
I was told you have to work your way up. You have to do data entry to go into the mail room to go

1144
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:43.320
into like this thing to this thing. And then it was like years away. And they also told me no one

1145
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:48.200
would trust me because I was 18 at the time. Like no one's trust you on sales. And yeah. So

1146
01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:51.240
and then I got into sales and did well. Yeah. I should have said that didn't matter at all.

1147
01:03:51.240 --> 01:03:55.560
But that for me was like the big to six weeks. And it was only there six weeks. But that made

1148
01:03:55.560 --> 01:03:59.320
a lifetime impact. I want to highlight one thing that you said, which is just for anybody who's

1149
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:04.440
useless thing. Graham said, I'll do anything. And then they said, well, we do have this role open

1150
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:09.880
to this. I would strongly recommend if you want to, quote, do anything, then just look at the jobs

1151
01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:14.120
they have available and try and do that. So rather than just going like empty, just be like,

1152
01:04:14.120 --> 01:04:19.000
oh, you have a data entry position. I'll do that for you. And then in all of the extra time,

1153
01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:21.800
that's where you try and have lunch with people. That's where you try and basically build your

1154
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:26.200
network within the business. So you can start leveraging like relationships to gain more skills.

1155
01:04:26.200 --> 01:04:29.320
And then you can start, you know, moving your way in and learning what you want to learn.

1156
01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:33.320
Yeah, that was I agree with that. That was a tough one in that business though, because I was the

1157
01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:40.600
only one who was 18. Everyone else was like 35 to 50. Yeah. But like, because I know that you get

1158
01:04:40.600 --> 01:04:44.200
tons of people who reach out saying, like, hey, I'll take your coffee for you, whatever. And the

1159
01:04:44.200 --> 01:04:49.640
thing is just like a couple points. One is, Elon doesn't need someone to take his coffee. Like,

1160
01:04:49.640 --> 01:04:53.960
he's got very skilled professionals who will never mess up his coffee and also do 100 other things

1161
01:04:53.960 --> 01:04:58.200
that are paid gazillions just to make sure that his time is booked to the second, right? So like,

1162
01:04:58.200 --> 01:05:02.440
one is like, I would either shoot much lower and now you might be like, wait, shouldn't I shoot

1163
01:05:02.440 --> 01:05:06.040
the stars? Like, you can do it every one. If you want to hire likelihood, I think shoot for

1164
01:05:06.040 --> 01:05:09.160
people just one or two steps ahead of you. If you've got a buddy who's do it, he's got his own

1165
01:05:09.240 --> 01:05:13.560
car washing business and he's doing $200,000 a year. It's like, see if you can help that guy. He

1166
01:05:13.560 --> 01:05:17.960
probably will happily take your free labor. It's really just like levels. If somebody can afford

1167
01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:23.160
somebody to take their coffee for them and manage the schedule and manage their email and not have

1168
01:05:23.160 --> 01:05:27.240
them get bothered by like, hey, can you mentor me in the meantime? Like, it's like, Tim, I'm working.

1169
01:05:27.240 --> 01:05:31.560
I'm like, I can't like, oh, so this is what we're going to do. So I'm just going to coach you for

1170
01:05:31.560 --> 01:05:36.360
in exchange for coffee because we value my time at coffee. It doesn't make sense. Now, obviously,

1171
01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:39.080
the person who says that doesn't understand that fundamentally, which is why they're in the position

1172
01:05:39.080 --> 01:05:43.080
they're in. So I like, I have some grace for it, but I try to spread that message that people get

1173
01:05:43.080 --> 01:05:46.680
it. But one is trying to target people who are one which is upset if you're just trying to be like a

1174
01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:50.840
helper. But if you want to get into like, learn a specific skill from a business,

1175
01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:54.280
look at all the entry roles and then just apply to those jobs and then reach out be like,

1176
01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:58.920
I will do anything and I'll be the best data entry person you ever had. Do that and you have a

1177
01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:01.400
way higher likelihood of getting in the business because now you're actually meeting their

1178
01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:06.200
currently. It's not them meeting your needs. What about applying to businesses that don't need

1179
01:06:06.200 --> 01:06:11.640
your help or amount hiring? One of my things, I always thought it was great to approach places you'd

1180
01:06:11.640 --> 01:06:18.920
want to work and just say I'll take on any role. I think it depends on the visibility of the company.

1181
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:23.640
So if the company has like a really big social media presence, they have so many people doing that

1182
01:06:23.640 --> 01:06:28.440
that the supply demand of people asking for that specific thing is super not in your favor.

1183
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:32.200
If you want to a business that's not based on that, like you go to an electric, you know,

1184
01:06:32.200 --> 01:06:37.480
like an HVAC company, you probably could find some work there that they'll let you do. And so I

1185
01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:41.880
think it's again, it's like trying to shoot where like the big, the big arbitrage in life is

1186
01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:47.000
finding supply demand discrepancies that are in your favor. And so you have a supply of work.

1187
01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:51.480
They have a demand. Now, if there's way more supply, so many people offering it, then they can

1188
01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:54.120
dictate their own terms and if they don't need it, then they don't need it.

1189
01:06:54.760 --> 01:07:00.760
Yeah. What's holding people back from excelling beyond average? Do you think it's talent,

1190
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:06.600
belief, motivation? There's not a carrot. I think people don't do very much. I think people

1191
01:07:06.600 --> 01:07:11.320
do a lot of talking about doing and not a lot of doing. And I think it's the doing that does

1192
01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:16.360
everything. And I think that's the, and whether it's lack of motivation, lack of focus, lack of

1193
01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:21.240
like, lack of a hundred different things, it just comes down to a number of actions taken

1194
01:07:21.320 --> 01:07:24.680
for you in a lot of time. And I think the vast majority of people just wildly underestimate

1195
01:07:24.680 --> 01:07:28.360
the volume that's required. And I think that's like, I hit on this so hard because like,

1196
01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:33.720
like when, I'll tell you a story, I'll illustrate the point. When I, when I had my first gym,

1197
01:07:33.720 --> 01:07:37.800
I had a mentor who told me that he got all of his leads off of flyers. And so that's what he did.

1198
01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:41.880
And so I put out a flyer and I waited two weeks and one guy called me and said, hey, you

1199
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:47.240
didn't remember Sadie's. It's the only call I got. So call them as we're up two weeks later.

1200
01:07:47.240 --> 01:07:50.600
And I was, and he's like, hey, how'd that go? And I was like, ready to give, I was like, it didn't

1201
01:07:50.600 --> 01:07:54.200
work. You know, like, and he was like, and he like totally took it and tried and he was like,

1202
01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:58.680
well, what was your test size? And I was like, what do you mean? He was like, what was your test

1203
01:07:58.680 --> 01:08:04.360
amount? And I was like, well, I mean, I put out 300 in total. And he was like, oh man, he's like

1204
01:08:04.360 --> 01:08:09.160
hard to know if anything's going to work with 300. He's like, we test with 5,000 per batch.

1205
01:08:09.160 --> 01:08:13.240
He's like, and then once we find a winner, he's like, we do 5,000 flyers a day. And I was like,

1206
01:08:14.200 --> 01:08:20.040
oh, so he's doing 150,000 flyers a month for his business and I done 300. And this is why,

1207
01:08:20.040 --> 01:08:24.440
like, I think the vast majority of people dramatically underestimate how much volume it is. Like,

1208
01:08:24.440 --> 01:08:28.360
I mean, when we started this, it seems like you tweet all the time. It's like, I post that

1209
01:08:28.360 --> 01:08:33.880
often on a lot of platforms. Now, Twitter is my home base for how everything is generated from.

1210
01:08:34.440 --> 01:08:39.560
But like, we make 450 pieces a content a week. And so we were like, hey, man, I've been making

1211
01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:43.880
content for 90 days. And now I'd already put them in the top, you know, 1% because everyone gives

1212
01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:48.520
up. But if you actually made a post every day for 90 days, it's amazing. That's 90 posts. I do that

1213
01:08:48.520 --> 01:08:54.280
in two days. And so, but they get there and they're like, but I'm not Mr. Beast yet, you know, and

1214
01:08:54.280 --> 01:08:58.840
it's just and there's just people think that someone else is doing two times or three times as much.

1215
01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:04.440
But it's more often that they've done a thousand times or like two 10,000 times the amount of

1216
01:09:04.440 --> 01:09:08.120
work that they have. Like, if you count the amount of videos that you've put out in terms of

1217
01:09:08.120 --> 01:09:11.640
longs and shorts or minutes of content that you've put out over the last four or five years

1218
01:09:12.360 --> 01:09:17.640
compared to something, it's not even, it's like, it's so, so ridiculous the discrepancy. Same thing

1219
01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:21.080
with sales guys. They're like, hey, I've been, I've been selling for 90 days. I'm like, okay,

1220
01:09:21.080 --> 01:09:24.840
so how many calls a day do you take? And they're like, I end up ticking, you know, five or six live calls.

1221
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.920
I'm like, okay, so we do it for 90 days. You've taken like 400 live calls. It's like, okay, well,

1222
01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:34.920
this is John. He's closed 4,000 deals. Now, calls taken deals. That's why he's better than you.

1223
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:37.560
It's just like, there's just a dramatic misunderstanding. And that price,

1224
01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:42.440
maybe with a 30% close, you're just taking 12,000 calls. It's like, he's done 300 times the work you

1225
01:09:42.440 --> 01:09:47.960
have. Like, it's a lot or 30, but like, it's a lot more than people. So how do you compete with

1226
01:09:47.960 --> 01:09:53.880
that guy? Because I jet there's a lot of those guys out there. You start. I mean, I think it's like,

1227
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:59.800
you just start. And I think it's like, I think a huge amount of the delay that happens when people

1228
01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:04.200
are starting out is the amount of time it takes for them to realize there is no easy way. So they

1229
01:10:04.200 --> 01:10:08.520
spend a huge amount of time. They figure out what they're what how to do it. And then they spend

1230
01:10:08.520 --> 01:10:11.320
a really long time trying to figure out if there's an easier way and then they give up trying to find

1231
01:10:11.320 --> 01:10:15.880
an easier way and then they just start the hard way because they're always the only way. How often

1232
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:20.920
do you get emotionally tied to outcomes? I would say less and less over time. I'm sure that there

1233
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:24.200
are. It depends on the outcome. Yeah, it depends on the outcome. What outcomes are you still

1234
01:10:24.200 --> 01:10:28.040
emotionally tied to even though you may know better? Well, I think it's the book launch for my next

1235
01:10:28.040 --> 01:10:31.080
book that comes out. Like, if that goes well, I'll be stoked. If it doesn't go well, I'll be blunt.

1236
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:35.720
Like, you know, like those are like, I don't say on a micro level, like we always hope that

1237
01:10:35.720 --> 01:10:39.880
a YouTube video does well. You know, we hope that. But obviously, we have our constraints. If

1238
01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:43.080
like, okay, well, do I want this to be for a business center audience? Or do I want this to be

1239
01:10:43.080 --> 01:10:46.440
for more beginner audience? It's a beginner audience. I have to kind of recalibrate my expectations

1240
01:10:46.440 --> 01:10:51.400
because it'll get way more views. So it's not like I'm a robot. I think I would say that my

1241
01:10:51.400 --> 01:10:54.600
emotional regulation has just gotten better over time. It's not like it doesn't exist.

1242
01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.800
What other parts of your identity have you had to kill to become where you are right now?

1243
01:10:58.200 --> 01:11:02.760
Plenty. I know one was attachment to the approval of your dad. That's it. I think that's been

1244
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:07.400
spoken about quite often. Any other? Yeah. I think so. It really depends on how we define

1245
01:11:07.400 --> 01:11:11.960
identity. But if we define that by the actions that we take, like if you were to describe somebody,

1246
01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:15.880
like he is this way, you really describe it by the actions that person does, right? It's very

1247
01:11:15.880 --> 01:11:19.560
hard to say someone is something without doing something about it, right? We even describe

1248
01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:23.320
people by what they do. Like he's a carpenter. He is selfish, which means that he acts in

1249
01:11:23.320 --> 01:11:28.040
selfless ways. Like it's all based on activity. And so for me, like the changes in behavior,

1250
01:11:28.040 --> 01:11:32.440
which then ladder up to identity, I've had to become more patient. I've had to figure out which

1251
01:11:32.440 --> 01:11:35.560
I define as figuring out what to do in the meantime. I've had to just have times where I'm like,

1252
01:11:35.560 --> 01:11:39.400
I just I need to let I just need to let the let the turkey cook. Actually, I'll let it cook.

1253
01:11:39.400 --> 01:11:42.680
There's nothing I like. I shouldn't the right. The right task for me to do is nothing.

1254
01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:47.240
I've had to learn that. Wasn't an easy change to like the permanently

1255
01:11:47.240 --> 01:11:50.280
address that? No, and I don't think it's permanent. I think you have to fight it every day like

1256
01:11:50.280 --> 01:11:54.760
addiction. So you think there are certain characteristic traits. People just naturally have

1257
01:11:55.080 --> 01:11:58.440
aspects of their identity that they will have for their entire life. They just have to be able to

1258
01:11:58.440 --> 01:12:02.600
detect which ones keep them weak and then add some active battle for the rest of their life.

1259
01:12:02.600 --> 01:12:07.400
So I guess instead of anthropomorphizing so kind of like humanizing the things that we're fighting

1260
01:12:07.400 --> 01:12:11.960
against in terms of behavior, it's more thinking like I have been rewarded in the past for behaving

1261
01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:16.520
in this way. And so it's hard for me to change that behavior, but I realize that that behavior

1262
01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:20.440
no longer serves me. Now you're still going to have the memory of the reward of doing that

1263
01:12:20.440 --> 01:12:25.480
thing over and over again. And so what's what's really tough about human behavior is that punishment

1264
01:12:25.480 --> 01:12:31.000
fades, but reward sticks, meaning like when you go out and drink, if you drink too much the next

1265
01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:33.720
morning, you're hung over and you're like, I'm never going to drink again. But then a week later,

1266
01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:37.960
you're like, you remember the reward, you don't remember the punishment, right? It's the same

1267
01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:42.360
reason that people go back to ex boyfriend's and ex girlfriends. It's like they remember the good

1268
01:12:42.360 --> 01:12:47.320
times, but they forget about the bad times. So punishment fades, the reward sticks. And so the

1269
01:12:47.320 --> 01:12:51.000
hardest behaviors to change are ones that have rewarded you in the past because you will tend to

1270
01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:55.720
remember the reward and want to repeat them. And so the only way to really beat those is to find

1271
01:12:55.720 --> 01:12:59.480
something to do instead that rewards you better. What's one of the things that worked for you in the

1272
01:12:59.480 --> 01:13:05.480
beginning that stopped serving you as you've gotten bigger or more successful? Well, one of the

1273
01:13:05.480 --> 01:13:09.240
biggest ones that I talk about is when you when you when you quit the job and you start entrepreneurship,

1274
01:13:09.240 --> 01:13:15.160
you get rewarded really big for taking a risk for doing something different. But you don't need to

1275
01:13:15.160 --> 01:13:20.040
take those kind of existential risks all the time. And the problem is that you get a massive reward

1276
01:13:20.040 --> 01:13:24.360
for doing something beginning and then you almost have to immediately unlearn that and then stick with

1277
01:13:24.360 --> 01:13:28.360
this current path for an extended period of time. But you kind of always remember the hit of trying

1278
01:13:28.360 --> 01:13:31.800
something new, which is why I think so many entrepreneurs tend to always want to do lots of new

1279
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:35.960
things when most of the time they need to just get better at the thing that's in front of them and

1280
01:13:35.960 --> 01:13:38.840
confront whatever problem they don't know how to solve so that they can get that thing to the

1281
01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:42.120
next level. And so they think that by doing something new because that's what worked for them in the

1282
01:13:42.120 --> 01:13:45.720
past, that's going to get them the next level and in reality they just end up distracting themselves

1283
01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:49.720
and trying to chase two or three masters at a time and never getting there. What's a small hill

1284
01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:54.760
you're willing to die on that some people might just think is trivial. I try to think small

1285
01:13:54.760 --> 01:14:00.520
hill that I'm willing to die on that manifestation is bullshit and action is the only thing that matters.

1286
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:07.800
Wouldn't you say that manifestation is the first step before action? So if we it depends on how we

1287
01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:13.160
define manifestation. So if we define manifestation is like an electrical signal occurs in your brain

1288
01:14:13.160 --> 01:14:18.520
sure, but I don't think that's how most people describe it. So I would say be totally on board with

1289
01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:24.280
manifestation if we define it as knowing that like I know that this is possible like I saw this or I

1290
01:14:24.280 --> 01:14:28.600
have some perspective that has changed to me that's just knowledge. So if you have knowledge that

1291
01:14:28.600 --> 01:14:31.080
you can't start a bank, you have to have the knowledge that you can start a bank before you start

1292
01:14:31.080 --> 01:14:37.480
a bank. That makes sense. So fine. But the bank doesn't occur until you take the action. But the idea

1293
01:14:37.480 --> 01:14:43.400
of like the mindless ideation of like I'm going to manifest my husband into existence is I think

1294
01:14:43.400 --> 01:14:47.320
relatively bullshit. Now that being said, there's some people who do that and then also take

1295
01:14:47.320 --> 01:14:51.640
actions that then change their circumstances and then they get the husband and then they misattribute

1296
01:14:51.640 --> 01:14:55.640
what was the thing that caused it? And so for me, I think I mean fundamentally the position that

1297
01:14:55.640 --> 01:15:00.200
I'm in is trying to identify calls of relationship as accurately as possible. And so, you know,

1298
01:15:00.200 --> 01:15:05.240
the logical word that I use with this is just simply, you know, mindset plus no action, no outcome,

1299
01:15:06.440 --> 01:15:12.760
you know, mindset plus action outcome, no mindset action outcome. So the action is really going to

1300
01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:16.520
be the only thing that's going to. I would argue that you need mindset. You need some sort of mindset

1301
01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:20.680
to have the action like I'm kind of big in a manifestation. So it's interesting to

1302
01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:26.120
for me. Like to me, like the example of people get so upset by this, by the way,

1303
01:15:26.120 --> 01:15:29.480
whenever I find really interesting, what's their main contention with it? Well, they have a

1304
01:15:29.480 --> 01:15:33.640
history of being reinforced for talking to other people about manifestation. And so they want to

1305
01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:37.000
talk about other people nod and smile and agree with them. And those are all pro social behaviors.

1306
01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:40.680
And so I think it makes sense that they would do that. Again, it depends on how we define

1307
01:15:40.680 --> 01:15:44.440
manifestation, which I've yet to find anyone who's been able to define it well. Actually, you

1308
01:15:44.440 --> 01:15:48.200
can find really easily. And so that's that that's the part, right? So it's like it's really just

1309
01:15:48.280 --> 01:15:52.360
this word that has a least positive connotation. I just think it helps you with focus. It helps me

1310
01:15:52.360 --> 01:15:57.560
the station. Let's say the let's just say the boyfriend girlfriend example where you manifest

1311
01:15:57.560 --> 01:16:03.400
the perfect. But what is manifestation? You thinking clearly about your wants, needs,

1312
01:16:03.400 --> 01:16:09.160
goals, what to look for, who this sort of civilization. Correct. Now by manifesting that,

1313
01:16:09.160 --> 01:16:12.520
you're going to be on the lookout for those sort of qualities, the man investing the

1314
01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:16.600
prioritization or the men like you, we said prioritization and then man. I think the problem is

1315
01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:20.840
that you're kind of using a derivative definition of prioritization. This is fundamentally why

1316
01:16:20.840 --> 01:16:26.520
I have an issue. And then because you're using manifestation to indicate some sort of data or

1317
01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:30.760
information, a lot of people that have a different definition of manifestation are going to apply

1318
01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:35.720
that to their definition of majesty. The people that know what manifestation is. That's

1319
01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:39.720
is that such a lot of people think like you sit down and you manifest something and then they

1320
01:16:39.720 --> 01:16:44.040
think it's going to walk right through that door. Like they think that cosmically everything does

1321
01:16:44.040 --> 01:16:52.280
just like somehow get best. That's doing better than nothing. But I don't think so. There's

1322
01:16:52.280 --> 01:16:57.720
data that shows that you can trigger the same dopamine receptors when you think about getting a

1323
01:16:57.720 --> 01:17:01.880
billion dollars, then when you get a billion dollars. Like it's a similar thing. Obviously,

1324
01:17:01.880 --> 01:17:05.400
it's going to be a lot less intense when you think about it. But when you daydream about all these

1325
01:17:05.400 --> 01:17:09.480
amazing things that are happening, it doesn't actually change the reality of your existence. I think

1326
01:17:09.480 --> 01:17:13.240
only giving you small dopamine. When you can get yourself to have a firm belief that something is

1327
01:17:13.320 --> 01:17:17.800
going to happen and that nothing is getting it in the way, your actions are going to be reinforced

1328
01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:23.160
by that. Well, the action is the only thing that won't matter. I think there's got to be a

1329
01:17:23.160 --> 01:17:27.000
belief in yourself to stick with those actions. You have declarative knowledge, but also those

1330
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:33.960
are skills. If someone tries 100 times versus 10 times, I'd say the fact that they took more

1331
01:17:33.960 --> 01:17:37.560
action is the reason they got to where they're trying to go. Now, when we try to get to why did they

1332
01:17:37.560 --> 01:17:41.160
do that? I don't think anyone has the answer to that. I think the reason for that is because no one

1333
01:17:41.160 --> 01:17:45.000
knows why they do. I think they have a core belief in what they're doing. So they're fed that

1334
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:48.760
dealing is going to have an outcome to defend Graham. When I first reached out to Graham to try

1335
01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:55.080
to provide value to him. Exactly. I sat in my room like the benefit of this barcass. I had no

1336
01:17:55.080 --> 01:18:01.000
skills whatsoever. The only thing that I had was high confidence in my aptitude and confidence.

1337
01:18:01.000 --> 01:18:05.480
And confidence. I knew that I could provide value, but it was more of just like something that

1338
01:18:05.480 --> 01:18:10.040
existed in my brain. I don't know if I necessarily had evidence to support that. I just knew that I

1339
01:18:10.040 --> 01:18:15.320
was competent enough. And so maybe I manifested that one could argue that. So the big zoom in

1340
01:18:15.320 --> 01:18:19.720
all the way out here just for context. I think the reason that people get really up in arms about

1341
01:18:19.720 --> 01:18:26.680
it is because these are dogmas. These are belief systems which people operate at their very core,

1342
01:18:26.680 --> 01:18:30.600
which really just means ways of being, which means ways of behaving. And ways of talking is included

1343
01:18:30.600 --> 01:18:35.960
in that in terms of behavior. But people have a very hard time defining what the hell they're talking

1344
01:18:36.040 --> 01:18:40.200
about when we ask some of these words that are amorphous. And so I have, by and large, just

1345
01:18:40.200 --> 01:18:45.560
remove them from my vocabulary so that I can describe the observable. And it has been probably the

1346
01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:49.720
single most productive thing that I have done in my career. And so is it a small hill? It is

1347
01:18:49.720 --> 01:18:54.520
probably the only hill. And the main hill that I will die on, which is that behavior rules everything.

1348
01:18:55.080 --> 01:18:59.720
And you have a history of past, you know, reinforcers or punishers for a set of behaviors and you

1349
01:18:59.720 --> 01:19:03.080
repeat them in the future. And that's the only thing that I'll say about why someone does something.

1350
01:19:03.640 --> 01:19:05.960
You have been rewarded in the past for reaching out to people for doing things.

1351
01:19:07.240 --> 01:19:10.520
And it can be crossed on May. So it's like maybe reached out to girls and they was able to jump into

1352
01:19:10.520 --> 01:19:14.120
business and you were able to reach out to business owners. So it's crossed on May. Well, I know that.

1353
01:19:17.320 --> 01:19:20.520
But you have the idea of like it's across, but like those are just sets of skills,

1354
01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:27.480
those are behaviors. And so focusing exclusively on behaviors and unbundling terms that are amorphous

1355
01:19:27.480 --> 01:19:32.680
has been, I think, the key to my ability to communicate to people, train staff and kind of

1356
01:19:32.680 --> 01:19:36.040
enlist people to where we're trying to go. That has really been like what people are like,

1357
01:19:36.040 --> 01:19:39.880
man, I feel like Alex is so good at making things clear. It's like, because I just do not use

1358
01:19:39.880 --> 01:19:43.960
amorphous language. And I thought what do you use the term? I will define the terms. So now

1359
01:19:43.960 --> 01:19:49.400
by the observer, but I believe the shift belief starts with mindset. Well, it's like we're,

1360
01:19:49.400 --> 01:19:53.880
it starts with like what's my what's belief? What's mindset? What's manifesting?

1361
01:19:54.360 --> 01:19:59.400
You're well, this is like, this isn't not to put like, I just want to help not, not you guys,

1362
01:19:59.400 --> 01:20:05.160
everyone else. No, but I just, I don't think it serves people. And that's why, and like,

1363
01:20:05.160 --> 01:20:09.080
I just don't like necessarily be like, I mean, yes, you feel great about it. I'm glad that if you,

1364
01:20:09.080 --> 01:20:12.200
if you had the option between making 100 phone calls and sitting there and manifesting,

1365
01:20:12.200 --> 01:20:15.400
you will get further making 100 phone calls. And so I'm trying to decrease the amount of time and

1366
01:20:15.400 --> 01:20:17.800
take people to just do the thing.