WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.240 And so I think what a lot of people need to do is figure out the games they need to play 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:10.400 in the mean time. And so experts at things don't really have more impulse control. 3 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:13.600 I think it's a fallacy. They figure out more ways to win in the mean time. 4 00:00:13.600 --> 00:00:17.520 So grateful and honored for you to join me today because we spent so much time together. 5 00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:21.440 So it's only right that we actually sit across from each other face-to-face. 6 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:27.280 Let's just for the audience think, how have we spent time together? 7 00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:34.400 Dude, so many podcasts. So many YouTube videos. Like a disgusting amount. 8 00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:40.880 Like I'm like, are you kidding? Like I've spent so much time with you because you're such an 9 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:47.760 incredible communicator because you are able to have 10 years of knowledge into three, 10 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:52.640 a three-minute second clip. I'm just like, what is going on? And so I'm learning so much about 11 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:58.400 business, about communication, about life, all from you. So thank you so much for being 12 00:00:58.400 --> 00:01:02.800 you. And that's why we spent so much time together because I continually get value from the things 13 00:01:02.800 --> 00:01:08.560 you say. Well, I will do my very best to continue that trend even though there's big shoes to fill. 14 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:13.440 Well, I mean, it was so funny because one guy, I remember just not being able to talk to one guy 15 00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:18.000 because he's like, oh, Alex Formozzi, I don't get any value from him. I'm like, all right, 16 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:26.400 well, we're just not going to be friends. So that's, yeah, that's, but this interview is about you, 17 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:33.440 not my spending time with you. And that is, I would love to start with a psychology assignment you 18 00:01:33.440 --> 00:01:38.480 had at 19 years old when you had to pick someone who had a psychological disorder and tell the 19 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:47.840 story of how they went down that path. Will you tell us? Yeah, sure. So I like many young men 20 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:54.160 had lots of angst and felt like the world was not fair. And that I had not gotten what I 21 00:01:54.160 --> 00:01:59.600 quote deserved. And that I thought that my parents could have done a quote better job of parenting 22 00:01:59.600 --> 00:02:05.360 me in general. And I resented them for that. And so I had an intra-dicecology course and the 23 00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:09.040 assignment was, as you said, pick somebody who had any pathology that we had cut, you know, 24 00:02:09.040 --> 00:02:15.360 studied over the whole semester and then write the story from their perspective of how that pathology 25 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:21.600 might have developed, right? And what happened through the course of going through that assignment 26 00:02:21.600 --> 00:02:26.960 was not what I expected. Because as I went through and I picked my mother and she's, you know, 27 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:31.680 she's been public about, you know, suffering from, you know, depression and ADD and things like that. 28 00:02:32.160 --> 00:02:44.080 That I picked that and then kind of inhabiting her shoes as an immigrant who came here not speaking 29 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:50.960 the language and having, you know, a Serbian father who was very authoritative, rightfully so. 30 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:58.720 We're talking 1950s, you know what I mean? Just different, different times. And what her 31 00:02:58.720 --> 00:03:03.200 upbringing must have been like. And having a split life between being an American at school and, 32 00:03:03.200 --> 00:03:08.960 you know, getting beat up for not being able to speak because back then it was almost expected 33 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:19.840 and normalized it to beat up the foreigners to, you know, then being the first person to, 34 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:27.520 you know, first female class at Hopkins to be in that as a doctor. And so thinking about that 35 00:03:27.600 --> 00:03:33.360 trajectory, I all of a sudden like realized the amount of pressures that she had put on externally 36 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:38.320 that other people would put on her externally throughout her whole life. And what happened was I 37 00:03:38.320 --> 00:03:44.560 felt like I understood and blazed Pascal, who's, you know, Pascal triangle. So people remember him. 38 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:49.520 He was a mathematician and also a theologian. He had this quote that I love, which is to understand 39 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:57.840 is to forgive. And I believe that you cannot both hate someone and understand them at the same time. 40 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:04.880 And so like if I am very angry with someone, it's become a check for me where I'm like, oh, I 41 00:04:04.880 --> 00:04:09.520 must not understand something. Like there's something about them or something about their experience 42 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:13.920 that has made me not understand why they do what they do. And then you have the secondary statement 43 00:04:13.920 --> 00:04:17.760 of most people, if you were born with the same genetics and live the same life as that person, 44 00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:23.200 you would see the world the same way as they do. And so carried within that is this very jarring 45 00:04:23.200 --> 00:04:28.880 idea that what if our viewpoint of the world is something that someone else hates entirely and in 46 00:04:28.880 --> 00:04:33.680 their mind, we are wrong. And but in their mind like hard to even really get into that and like 47 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:38.400 empathize with someone else's point of view to that degree. But me going through that process has 48 00:04:38.400 --> 00:04:43.760 actually been one that I've repeated multiple times in my life when I was extremely angry with someone. 49 00:04:43.760 --> 00:04:47.440 It's usually around loyalty or betrayals or things like that that happened to all humans. 50 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.640 But when I started writing narratives around how someone experienced life 51 00:04:55.440 --> 00:05:00.720 that would make it reasonable that they would act or behave or believe what they believe, all the sudden 52 00:05:01.840 --> 00:05:09.120 I felt like I understood. And so in a matter of a few weeks what felt like a decade of hate and anger 53 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:14.800 directed towards my mother, I went back from school to complete the story and I remember she picked a 54 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:20.400 fight about something I can remember what it was. And you have your normal routine of getting into 55 00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:27.920 a fight with someone, right? And I just remember having no emotional adrenaline spike and I just 56 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:32.800 felt very like it felt like she'd hit a button but the button wasn't hitting the normal trigger path 57 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:39.680 that it was supposed to. And so I just remember looking at her and be like, I understand and I'm sorry. 58 00:05:40.960 --> 00:05:47.280 And she of course, you know, burst out into tears and it was you know a huge emotional moment. 59 00:05:47.280 --> 00:05:51.840 But like at the end of the day it was like I get it like you went through a lot and I'm sorry that 60 00:05:51.840 --> 00:05:57.360 you've had to deal with these demons. And it wasn't about me. And I think it's a lot of us we have 61 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.720 these like self-centered viewpoint because like we are the center of our own universes and 62 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.000 therefore expect that everything that has ever happened is because of us right when we're 63 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:08.000 children we just expect our parents got to force must be my fault because like you think that way 64 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:13.680 it's like at a base level. And so realizing that it wasn't my fault necessarily that she felt 65 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:19.920 that way. And I guess in some way giving her permission to just be who she was and not constantly 66 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:25.920 tell her why she shouldn't be this way or why basically her basic existence was insulting to me 67 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:33.360 um unpacking that made for a less contentious relationship because then the triggers were 68 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:38.560 somewhat removed because if you understand why someone doesn't speak English and they keep looking 69 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:43.440 at you and making noises at you it's hard to get upset because you know they don't speak the language. 70 00:06:43.440 --> 00:06:48.560 And so even you can just replace like speaking English with speaking Alex and it works the same way. 71 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:53.200 And so that's that's how that little intro to psychology assignment both 72 00:06:53.920 --> 00:07:00.880 changed my life with my mother but then also helped me unpack anger driven situations that I had 73 00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:06.480 with other close people throughout the rest of my life. It's really interesting that your 74 00:07:07.520 --> 00:07:13.200 normal reaction to her wasn't the same and thus her reaction was different to you breaking down 75 00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:20.000 because it almost reminds me of how Layla your wife sometimes acts when you get angry she meets 76 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:25.440 it with love and then you're like oh I see what this is which is very fascinating to speak to 77 00:07:25.440 --> 00:07:34.480 human beings in our nature of when we meet fear with love in some respect like the fear dissipates 78 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:40.080 so cool to like make that realization. I think it's just very hard to step out of the emotion 79 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:46.640 in the moment yeah inside step it and try and get outside or above whatever analogy you want 80 00:07:46.640 --> 00:07:52.080 to try and say like okay would why not understand and then it becomes a question to solve rather 81 00:07:52.080 --> 00:08:01.520 than a person to attack. Have you do you have any other examples frameworks mental models that 82 00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:09.360 help you do that in a quicker way? I mean with with something that's like super deep like anger 83 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.840 stuff like that I mean that was years and years like I think it takes more more work to do that 84 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:20.400 but in terms of frames around decreasing the stakes of a situation I have lots of them. 85 00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:26.400 So like for example one of them is you know if you zoom out far enough you realize that you can't 86 00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:31.200 even see the earth and so when I'm really upset about like Wi-Fi or something I'm like okay maybe 87 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:37.120 this isn't as big of a deal you know and if you if you go back you know let's go back 20 years 88 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:41.440 like what thing really bothered me 20 years ago I probably can't even tell you what really 89 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:46.080 bothered me 20 years ago and so I can probably expect that what's bothering me today I'll feel 90 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:49.360 the same way 20 years from now and so if it's not going to matter then it probably shouldn't matter 91 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:54.960 now and a different frame would be like okay we'll look at the ancient accents and when I say 92 00:08:54.960 --> 00:09:00.560 that I mean like the Romans the Babylonians the Sumerians and in 5,000 years we will be the ancient 93 00:09:00.560 --> 00:09:06.400 Americans and we'll look back on this and we probably won't remember maybe even just the leader's 94 00:09:06.400 --> 00:09:10.960 names let alone the day-to-day strikes that we deal with and again if it's not going to matter 95 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:15.920 then then it's not going to matter now or shouldn't matter now another one is a frame of the veteran 96 00:09:15.920 --> 00:09:20.400 which I like a lot which I got from Dr. Cashy which is imagine whatever this bad circumstances 97 00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:28.320 happening once a day multiple once an hour every day for the next year okay so that's you know 98 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:34.320 let's say it's 12 times a day times 365 a lot of times right well how would you feel on the 99 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:39.760 2000th time of that happening well by that point if you really thought about it you'd be like well 100 00:09:39.760 --> 00:09:43.600 this is probably you probably just be like well this is just how this is this is how life is 101 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:47.520 and then you wouldn't be upset by it because you just adjusted your expectations which meant if I 102 00:09:47.520 --> 00:09:53.040 could change my expectations on my 2000th time of my maids putting the spoons in the wrong drawer 103 00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:58.080 then I can readjust and I say that it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek but you can replace that with whatever 104 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:02.000 you know what I mean with somebody double-parking you with your boss being short with you like if 105 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:07.040 your boss was always short with you once an hour every hour of every day in a year it wouldn't 106 00:10:07.040 --> 00:10:12.160 upset you because you would expect that and so a lot of the like the angst that we experience 107 00:10:12.160 --> 00:10:16.480 the anxiety the sadness the anger whatever it is it comes from the fact that our expectations 108 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:23.280 are unmet and so either we can demand that an uncarrying universe changes to meet us 109 00:10:24.400 --> 00:10:31.840 or we can change our expectations and I think that if it's universe the universe unlike what most 110 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:38.800 of the Americana propaganda will put out the universal win and so I think that that is one where 111 00:10:38.800 --> 00:10:44.960 you surrender to reality through acceptance and you say like this is period and it's not good or 112 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:52.320 bad which is probably the sixth frame which is that we have this situation let's say the spoons 113 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:58.240 one because it's ridiculous right where I say I have this problem right and so one of my favorite 114 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:04.880 ways to solve a problem is to stop defining it as a problem to begin with so it's the least 115 00:11:04.880 --> 00:11:09.200 effortful way to actually solve stuff is like is this really a problem what if this was good and 116 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:16.800 here's a weird one is that most short-term problems are actually long-term benefits so think about 117 00:11:16.800 --> 00:11:21.600 this it's like you've probably heard the story of the the man in the the boy in the horse so you know 118 00:11:22.400 --> 00:11:28.720 kid kid kid gets a horse everyone says this is amazing kid falls off the horse people are like oh that's 119 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:34.160 terrible because he broke his foot and then army comes to recruit but he can't go to to the war 120 00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:38.480 because his his foot was broken people said that was amazing and so like you keep going through this 121 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:42.720 cycle and that it's only within the time period that you measure but over a long period of time we 122 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:47.200 don't know whether the thing was quote good or bad and if we don't know if something's gonna be good 123 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:51.200 or bad then why even bother scrubbing a label to it because the only thing we actually know is that 124 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:58.160 it happened and so I see it a lot like the weather where you say like people will describe a situation 125 00:11:58.160 --> 00:12:02.640 like sunny days or rainy days and they say sunny days like they're good days and rainy days like 126 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:06.800 they're bad days but if you're in a drought rainy day comes from heaven and another sunny day comes 127 00:12:06.800 --> 00:12:11.040 from hell and on the flip side if you have a wedding the next day rainy day sounds horrible and a 128 00:12:11.040 --> 00:12:14.880 sunny day sounds amazing and the crazy thing is that there's two people praying for the same thing 129 00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:19.520 at the same time one's gonna be upset and the other person isn't and I remember one early you 130 00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:23.920 dealings with Christianity and I was thinking about just having a god I remember praying for 131 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:29.280 good weather because I had some outdoor event and then I thought to myself man there's a farmer 132 00:12:29.280 --> 00:12:34.400 who's really praying for rain right now and I was like shit maybe this is flawed not to say that 133 00:12:34.400 --> 00:12:40.480 praying in general is flawed but just that construct of this it being my way is therefore good 134 00:12:41.920 --> 00:12:49.280 and I think getting used to not getting my way comma and saying that that's okay has been 135 00:12:49.280 --> 00:12:56.560 one of the big psychological hacks that I've had in my life that have decreased my anxiety levels 136 00:12:56.560 --> 00:13:02.000 and my anger levels around responding to stimuli that I wouldn't at the onset say was what I wanted 137 00:13:02.640 --> 00:13:08.560 because I might not know and maybe today's rainy day is tomorrow's sunny day and maybe sun is 138 00:13:08.560 --> 00:13:15.040 neither good nor bad it just is it's beautiful it what I love so much about what you talk about is 139 00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:20.560 like there's a surrender there to the moment whatever it is but that doesn't negate hard work 140 00:13:20.560 --> 00:13:27.040 either and and a huge part of who you are and what you present is like you just need to do more 141 00:13:27.040 --> 00:13:33.120 reps for the thing so it's like maybe you want it to be your way just do more of the thing and so 142 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:39.600 I mean I think the best example to me that really hit at home was with the the flyers on the cars 143 00:13:39.680 --> 00:13:45.760 so could you tell that story for people for my dad knows yeah so I'd a mentor way back when 144 00:13:45.760 --> 00:13:51.200 when I was starting my gyms and he was like yeah we do flyers that's how we get customers all 145 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:55.440 it's like okay so I'll do some of those you see should try that so you know print out 300 flyers 146 00:13:55.440 --> 00:14:00.880 and you know advertising was expensive and I was broke and so 300 was was the appropriate amount 147 00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:06.400 of advertising that I could stomach and so we put out 300 flyers and I waited and then the next day 148 00:14:06.400 --> 00:14:10.480 I got a call I was really excited and as soon as I pick up the phone I was like oh hey it's like 149 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:17.440 I got one of your flyers I was so excited and he says yeah you dinged my Mercedes and I just 150 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:22.560 immediately panicked and hung up the phone I didn't say thankfully you never called back but that 151 00:14:22.560 --> 00:14:27.520 was the only call I got from my 300 flyers and so I called the the mentor back and I was like hey you 152 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:35.440 you told me to do them you know think you know a decade plus ago and way more entitlement I was like 153 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:42.080 hey you told me this was gonna work right and and I'm and he didn't even respond to that he was 154 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.960 like well how many did you how many did you put out for your test size and I was like what do you 155 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:51.680 mean by test size he's like well what was the first batch that you tested on so that you could then 156 00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:56.960 scale it and I was like well I mean I put out 300 in total and he just started laughing and I was 157 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:00.960 like why I'm like I'm having this very serious moment you know what I mean I was like what are you 158 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:08.240 laughing at he's like hard to know if anything works with 300 he's like well we test with 5,000 159 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:13.840 he's like and then if we get a half a percent back he's like then we're okay one percent I'm 160 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.800 scaling with the moon one and a half he's like I'm singing singing praises he's like if you had a 161 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:22.400 half percent on that he's like you'd get one and a half people he's like and that's tough to see 162 00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:27.280 with 300 can't really know if anything's work and I remember thinking that moment like 163 00:15:27.520 --> 00:15:34.160 I might have been doing the right thing but I was not doing nearly enough of it and I think that 164 00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:38.320 there's a lot of early on and like I think that story can apply to a lot of things to early entrepreneurship 165 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:45.280 it's like we can get disheartened by our first month of making content that we haven't made money yet 166 00:15:45.280 --> 00:15:48.560 from it but it's like not that you're doing the wrong thing you just might not have been doing it 167 00:15:48.560 --> 00:15:53.360 either along enough or enough of it which time is really just also a proxy for doing enough of it 168 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:58.880 and so I and I think what a lot of people don't get myself included when I was earlier starting is 169 00:15:59.520 --> 00:16:04.240 people don't get the amount of volume that it takes to be successful right like I actually I'll 170 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.240 tell you I had a different conversation the other day so good friend of mine very successful 171 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:13.680 and like to the to the B level successful right and so he's he had a conversation with me he's 172 00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:18.320 trying he's wanted to start building a personal brand just because he wants to give back and he was 173 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.800 like dude why um he's like your stuff just crushes compared to my like what am I doing wrong 174 00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:26.000 here and I gave him a couple tips and then he was like well how much country you guys putting out 175 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:34.240 a week and I was like I think we're at like 350 pieces a week and he just like he looked at me and 176 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:40.720 he was like thank you for resetting my minimum standard and because he's an experienced entrepreneur 177 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.880 and so he could immediately translate that into what he needed to hear because he was like 178 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:51.520 me with my one a day he's like he's like I think it's significantly less reasonable that I expect 179 00:16:51.520 --> 00:16:56.480 to have your outcome with with one 30th of the level of volume that you're putting out but here's 180 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:03.040 the context is that back to that flyer story he was saying 5,000 and then he said you'd go to 5,000 181 00:17:03.040 --> 00:17:09.680 per day after that meaning that in 30 days you put out 150,000 flyers in that same 30 days I put out 182 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:19.360 300 right so I was I was doing one five times whatever five times 50 all one 1500 divided by 183 00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:26.880 145 hundredth of the level of effort that he was and so a lot of time people think in doubles and 184 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.040 triples when it's the level of effort but just like the example I gave with the guy who's successful 185 00:17:31.040 --> 00:17:37.760 already it wasn't him doing twice the work he needed to do like 30 times the work to get that level 186 00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:42.720 of outcome and I will tell you this is that across super successful people independent of how they 187 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.720 advertise and this is just specific to advertise but it works with product iteration it works with 188 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:51.600 editing for videos if you know two editors I can imagine I'm looking at my own my own chief of bread 189 00:17:51.600 --> 00:17:56.400 behind me if you have two editors and you say hey how much time did you put into this video the new 190 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:01.200 guy says oh I put a ton of time into this video I put like two hours into this and the experience 191 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:05.440 editor laughs and he's like so that was the first round of edits that you did and they're like 192 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:11.520 no that was like the whole thing it's like well hard to edit anything in two hours right in terms 193 00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:18.320 of like if you had a video right and so the the the the the huge discrepancy between someone coming 194 00:18:18.320 --> 00:18:22.560 in who's new and someone who's experienced in terms of how much work they expect to do to get an 195 00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:28.960 outcome is the difference between mediocre and world class and like the context here and I'll give 196 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:33.520 I'm gonna keep giving examples because I think it'll maybe drive it home but like my book the book 197 00:18:33.520 --> 00:18:39.920 that's coming out I put two thousand hours personally into that book so six hours a day from 198 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.960 his two years every first six hours of her day was writing and rewriting and rewriting 19 drafts 199 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:51.760 of the book before it will now come out right and people see the last book and that book sells 25 200 00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:56.320 thousand copies a month with word of mouth alone there's no paid ads it just and it grows more 201 00:18:56.320 --> 00:19:00.080 every month meaning people who buy the book read the book tell more than one person about the book 202 00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:06.240 and it keeps growing and so I have a bunch of other friends who are business people who are like oh 203 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.560 I'll go write a book and I they'll text me like dude I'm already halfway through started two weeks ago 204 00:19:10.560 --> 00:19:15.040 I don't I don't even need to know I can tell you right now the book's not gonna be good 205 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:23.440 because like nothing exceptional takes little time like great great work takes great struggle 206 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.440 because if it were easy then it means it's low-hanging fruit and if it's low-hanging fruit other 207 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:32.080 people have already done it and it's it's the high fruit that take the ladder that take the climbing 208 00:19:32.080 --> 00:19:36.320 that take getting cut by thistles and leaves and whatever that's still there for the picking 209 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:43.520 and the thing is it's like most of the big wins in life come from the hard to attain fruit 210 00:19:43.520 --> 00:19:48.800 and the key to most of those treasure chests is actually right in front of most people 211 00:19:48.800 --> 00:19:53.040 it's just that there's just a time clock on the treasure chest the key's sitting on top of it 212 00:19:53.120 --> 00:19:59.120 it says wait five years and then you can unlock it's in plain sight it's not a secret it's just 213 00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:03.360 the thing that makes it hard is not the complexity is the consistency how do you know 214 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:09.280 when something like the book is is ready to go after nineteen drafts why not twenty why not 215 00:20:09.280 --> 00:20:14.720 twenty seven why not a hundred twenty seven because at that point there was nothing else that I 216 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.880 could think of that I could do to improve it so most people will ship something and be like well 217 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:24.480 because I like I'll give you the editing example so someone says this video I just edited it and I 218 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:28.560 say cool if I give you two more hours what would you do they'd be like well I probably do this 219 00:20:28.560 --> 00:20:32.800 better I probably do this better I'll be like okay do that come back come back in two hours 220 00:20:32.800 --> 00:20:38.080 but okay if I give you two more hours what would you do well I'll probably do this this in this 221 00:20:38.080 --> 00:20:42.800 okay cool they come back now here's the trick one if I give you 20 hours what would you do 222 00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:48.320 well shit I would probably restructure the story entirely to make it really flow not just like 223 00:20:48.320 --> 00:20:52.880 the surface level edits but I'd really structure like really just rearrange the entire thing to make 224 00:20:52.880 --> 00:21:02.240 it like way better okay do that and then that clip gets a million views and so it's like there's 225 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:07.840 sure there's duct tape and there's lipstick that you can put on stuff but like why go from version 226 00:21:07.840 --> 00:21:12.080 eighteen to version nineteen right because probably version eighteen given the audience I've 227 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:18.080 had will probably would probably still be a person right but in my opinion the difference between 228 00:21:19.840 --> 00:21:27.840 great and world class is is so much more effort on the front end but so much more output on the 229 00:21:27.840 --> 00:21:35.040 back end meaning I could spend half as much time on this book right and I'd probably sell close to 230 00:21:35.040 --> 00:21:38.880 the amount of books that I'll probably sell like from the event and all that stuff like people will 231 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:45.360 buy it right but it's the second wave that won't happen it's people will say this book was good 232 00:21:46.800 --> 00:21:51.440 but they won't be they won't it won't blow their minds right because it'll have just been like 233 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:57.360 enough stuff that wasn't totally broken down all the way the hard work of digesting a concept that 234 00:21:57.360 --> 00:22:03.040 takes four days to break down one paragraph like my team laughed about this actually my CEO of Jim 235 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:09.760 um I send him there's uh there's a there's one page in the book that special I'll just I'll just 236 00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:15.840 leave it at that all right and I um and I sent him a draft of that page and I read it to him out 237 00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:21.280 loud and offhandedly I was like yeah I've put I've spent the last 20 hours on this over the last two 238 00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:26.880 days on this one page and he didn't say anything about it but he then made a clip about that 239 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:31.040 because because to me that's how long it took me to write every page if you do the math like I 240 00:22:31.040 --> 00:22:38.400 spent 10 hours basically on every single page in the book and so for him he was like thank you for 241 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:43.440 resetting my minimum standard and so a lot of times I think if you looked at the book and what it'll 242 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:50.880 probably do afterwards um it it seems significantly it might go into those you this is used to say 243 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:57.200 my buddy Michelangelo uh he said if people saw how much work I put into my art they wouldn't think 244 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:04.400 it's as exceptional as it is and so a lot of the exceptionalism is that people see the output 245 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:11.200 not the input and so people said if I said hey I spent 2000 hours on this book maybe it's not that 246 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:15.920 exceptional when you think about it like that right but it is exceptional compared to people who put 247 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:21.920 50 or 100 and so if I put 20 times the work into a book and it becomes three times better than other 248 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:28.320 books my output's input ratio on the front end is way worse than theirs but I would rather spend two 249 00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:34.160 years building an exceptional product and then let all the customers of that book spend the rest 250 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:40.160 of their lives promoting it for me then spend two months making a decent book and then have to spend 251 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:46.240 the rest of my life promoting it because no one else wants to do it for me we'll go guys you guys 252 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:51.200 already know that I don't run any ads on this and I don't sell anything and so the only ask that I 253 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.640 can ever have are you guys that you help me spread the word so we can have more entrepreneurs 254 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:58.960 make more money feed their families make better products and have better experiences for their 255 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:03.920 employees and customers and the only way we do that is if you can rate and review and share 256 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.600 this podcast so the single thing that I have to do is you can just leave review let's take 257 00:24:07.600 --> 00:24:11.920 10 seconds or one type of the thumb it means the absolute will to me and more importantly it may 258 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:19.200 change the world for someone else yeah it reminds me of how Steve Jobs thought of the iPhone 259 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:24.880 you're thinking about the same thing for writing a book which to me is a revolutionary concept but 260 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:30.560 makes sense another thing that I love about what you discuss is like how your own bar for excellence 261 00:24:30.560 --> 00:24:37.120 continues to rise year over year how what you would have accepted as great work a year ago 262 00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:43.200 five years ago 10 years ago was much lower and that gave me some peace for some reason can you 263 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:47.760 could you talk a little bit about that the more you do the more you realize you can do 264 00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:54.480 and so it's like you proved yourself in some way do you get a positive reinforcement loop that 265 00:24:54.480 --> 00:25:00.480 like if I spend an extra 50% longer on this I get even more positive feedback and so in some ways 266 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:05.520 you could say that I've just become addicted to that loop which is that the more obsessive I become 267 00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:12.720 about anything the more positive feedback I get on a longer time horizon and that's the part that 268 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:18.720 most people struggle with which is like think about this for a second I spent two years writing and 269 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:27.200 editing this book years and it could also flop right it could you never know it could flop no 270 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:35.040 between yet every second won't flop but it could flop but most and I think this is like this is a 271 00:25:35.040 --> 00:25:40.720 muscle it's a skill right that you develop over time and so I don't if if you would ask me 10 years 272 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.840 ago there's no way and I mean this this isn't me like trying to time to post your own this like 273 00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:50.480 there is no way and I can say this confidently that I would wait for two years for anything 274 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:58.240 I wouldn't have waited two years for anything just I couldn't do it there's no way I could do it 275 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:02.080 and so you know the marshmallow test that people talk about with the kid one marshmallow two marshmallows 276 00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:07.920 right well what's interesting about that is that I would love like a third test of this and maybe 277 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:12.560 someone he can send it to me if they've if they've done this but it's how long can you make the 278 00:26:12.560 --> 00:26:18.560 kid wait for the marshmallow because we have a binary of okay wait 15 minutes or wait 30 minutes 279 00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:23.120 and if they eat the the marshmallow in the 30 they're not long-term thinkers and if they have 280 00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:27.440 some level of impulse control and if they wait 30 minutes they get they get the second marshmallow 281 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:34.640 but what if you said you have to wait a day hey guys real quick this podcast only grows for 282 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.520 more of mouth quite literally there's no other way to grow a podcast in word of mouth if there's 283 00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:41.520 some element of this that you think somebody else should hear or be relevant to them it would mean 284 00:26:41.520 --> 00:26:46.400 the world to me if you shared this via text via Instagram via DM via whatever way you like to share 285 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:52.240 stuff with the people you love thank you to get the second marshmallow what if they said you 286 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.640 had to wait a month to get the second marshmallow how many kids wait now and it's certain at some 287 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:01.040 point the kid starts to death so like the the analogy blinks right or it's no longer the leaves 288 00:27:01.040 --> 00:27:06.160 or foot off but yeah but like you can still take the concept and apply it which is I get I can 289 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:12.080 almost guarantee that the kid that can wait a month to get the second marshmallow will win no 290 00:27:12.080 --> 00:27:17.600 matter what it whatever he does and it's because the amount of input that they're willing to do before 291 00:27:17.600 --> 00:27:25.840 getting a result far exceeds everyone else's you said before that you know you couldn't it would 292 00:27:25.840 --> 00:27:31.360 be impossible for you to wait two years for anything ten years ago that implies that you were 293 00:27:31.360 --> 00:27:38.320 able to increase the amount of time that it you were you became more of a long term thinker over time 294 00:27:38.320 --> 00:27:43.760 how can somebody listening to this become more of a long term thinker intentionally you have to 295 00:27:43.760 --> 00:27:48.960 figure out what to do in the meantime like patience isn't actually active and this is a big 296 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:55.280 finding for me was that people like be patient it's a terrible directive because no one knows what 297 00:27:55.280 --> 00:28:00.880 to do when you say be patient right now I'm being patient for every other thing in my entire life 298 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:06.400 except for this podcast because time is elapsing and other things are going in progress I have long 299 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:10.800 term tenure goals that right now I'm being patient for by being on this podcast with you and so I 300 00:28:10.800 --> 00:28:16.480 think what a lot of people need to do is figure out the games they need to play in the meantime and 301 00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:24.240 so experts at things don't really have more impulse control I think it's a fallacy they figure out 302 00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:31.440 more ways to win in the meantime so if you're been on a treadmill and and you see 30 minutes right 303 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.520 and then you and then you're like you you get five minutes in and you're like okay only five more 304 00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:42.560 five minute chunks right that is in a nutshell what an expert does when they approach a project 305 00:28:42.560 --> 00:28:47.520 they don't try and think I'm gonna run 26 miles right if they're running the marathon they say 306 00:28:47.520 --> 00:28:51.920 how do I break this into a chunk that I can manage right and then what they do is they create more 307 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:57.760 ways to win and so in those two years it wasn't like I just sat and suffered for two years and then 308 00:28:57.760 --> 00:29:02.400 the book's gonna come out right I was I would have many many victories along the way that would 309 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:06.880 happen oh we just destructed this whole this chapter I just rewrote it again and it's killer or I 310 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.840 just got this beautiful visual that just completely explains this thing with three three shapes and it 311 00:29:11.840 --> 00:29:16.640 just you know it explains the whole concept right and so you get these little many reinforcers and 312 00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:20.720 then you have the long loop of reinforcement that is for me that I have now learned over and over again 313 00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:26.080 is that the longer the more time I put into something not necessarily longer but the more time I 314 00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:30.480 put into something the the fact that time elapses is secondary the more time I put into something the 315 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:35.040 better it is and what happens to is when you're built working on projects you're working on anything 316 00:29:35.040 --> 00:29:40.640 is that if you work on it over a longer period of time you have more time for creative solutions to 317 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:46.720 come to you to the problems that you're thinking through like the best launch I ever did in my life 318 00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:52.240 so far was actually a prestige lapse myself in my company and it was because we actually plan it 319 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:58.320 for a year other companies and other projects I because I was impatient was like let's do this in 12 320 00:29:58.320 --> 00:30:02.480 weeks right and I hear and I can quote the contributors you got a break shit move you got you know 321 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.120 I mean I do all that but you don't work really well when we had thought through every contingency 322 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.280 in every scenario and we were completely staffed up and we had done a beta test and we had 323 00:30:11.280 --> 00:30:15.920 done a five times bigger beta test and we had ran processing through we made sure paths were on time 324 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.600 we made sure we had inventory tracking that was automated we made sure that we had the right 325 00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:23.120 ratio between customers you know service people and the number of ticks that are going to get bought 326 00:30:23.120 --> 00:30:29.040 we knew we had supply chain lined up so that we could ramp up at a 10x or 20x month over a month 327 00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:33.840 type of scaling because we're going to thousands of locations right like that doesn't happen 328 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:42.000 in a week and so like great great triumph takes great sacrifice just is what it like there's a 329 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:47.520 quote in a B.F. Skinner who's a behavioral psychologist and he starts one of his books he says 330 00:30:49.520 --> 00:30:55.200 many variables exist and therefore many variables must be studied and it's just about the context 331 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:59.040 of human behavior and so a lot of people want to make these idioms or these truisms that are like 332 00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:04.240 one plus one equals two is like the human behavior has a lot of variables and so everyone wants 333 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:09.280 to have the shortcut and he just was like many variables must be studied it's just like you can't 334 00:31:09.280 --> 00:31:14.480 shortcut the work the work has to be done and so I think kind of like that level of acceptance to go 335 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.880 full circle with what we were talking about earlier is like we have this expectation that we want 336 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:23.760 this amazing big outcome and we aren't willing to put in the level of work required to make that 337 00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:29.360 outcome and so it's interesting like core layer and this is like if you want a double like if you 338 00:31:29.360 --> 00:31:34.800 want a double output outcome you might have to work five times harder and if you want like a 339 00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:38.880 triple output you might have to work ten times harder and you're like wait there's there's an 340 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:44.160 inefficiency there and it's like the answer is yes but there's also an asymptote on the other side 341 00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:50.000 so let me give you an example so if I said Olympic spreading right these guys trained for four 342 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:56.800 years to shave a tenth of a second off their runtime and let's say one guy works twice as hard 343 00:31:56.800 --> 00:32:03.920 as everybody else and he just gets one tenth of a second faster than the second place guy right 344 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:10.160 so he wins the gold the other guy wins the silver what is the material difference between first and 345 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:19.040 second everything everything and so even though the results there's a diminishing return of the 346 00:32:19.040 --> 00:32:24.560 results that you get from the input that you put in in terms of work there's an outsize return 347 00:32:24.560 --> 00:32:29.520 on each diminishing increment of improvement because teaching a high school kid how to run with good 348 00:32:29.520 --> 00:32:35.120 form they probably in one training session will make more improvements on their running than an 349 00:32:35.120 --> 00:32:40.400 Olympic caliber runner will make in the last four years of their running but which one matters more 350 00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:45.600 the last four years right and so I see the same thing there it's like if I want to create a 351 00:32:45.600 --> 00:32:49.600 right one of the best business books of all time that people will put into the cannon which is 352 00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:52.960 my ultimate goal like my team is that it's like when people make the list of like these are the five 353 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:57.600 books you have to read I want all of them to be books that I've written not because it's me thing but 354 00:32:57.600 --> 00:33:04.240 just because I want that to be the level of quality that that we put out right and in order for that 355 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:10.320 to happen I might have to run for four years every single day to get this much better but so that 356 00:33:10.320 --> 00:33:16.080 the first book not the third book that someone says is the book that I wrote that makes sense yeah 357 00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:23.680 it does what have you learned about yourself from writing this most recent book the work needs doing 358 00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:30.320 it's just like there's no way around it like it just has to be confronted and I think it just 359 00:33:30.320 --> 00:33:35.680 like it just comes down to that is you just have to confront the work and a lot of people put a lot 360 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:41.040 of extra things between them and the work that they try and romanticize they try and create 361 00:33:41.040 --> 00:33:46.560 superstitions around it they have all these fancy rain dances that they do but like at the end of the 362 00:33:46.560 --> 00:33:53.120 day the work doesn't care who you are it just cares that it gets done and I think in some way that's 363 00:33:53.120 --> 00:34:01.680 one of the great equalizers about product is that like in a lot of ways and this will probably be 364 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:08.880 triggering to some people but like it doesn't matter who you are like in a fitness example 500 365 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:15.200 pounds is 500 pounds it doesn't care who you are like anyone like Arthur can pull the sword from 366 00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:20.400 the stone if you're strong enough right and so like there's a level of work that has to get put 367 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:25.920 in to learn how to run ads level of work has to get put in to learn how to work to do cold calls 368 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:30.320 a level of work that has to get put in to learn how to be patient when someone's angry with you 369 00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:35.040 right or how to run the team or how to stick your projects in the sauna or whatever it is right 370 00:34:35.600 --> 00:34:39.920 um and it doesn't matter whether you're old you're young you're male you're female you're 371 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:45.040 black weight Asian whatever right it just needs doing and I think that a lot of people waste a lot 372 00:34:45.040 --> 00:34:51.760 of time not starting until I I've told this analogy before we've probably heard it but I'll say 373 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:56.480 for your audience um there's a study there's probably a lot of studies been done with this but you 374 00:34:56.480 --> 00:35:01.920 can become proficient in any skill in about 20 hours so playing the piano you know riding a bike 375 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.640 whatever 20 hours of concentrated effort gets you proficient it's the largest gain in skill 376 00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:12.240 improvement is 20 hours of concentrated effort the problem is is that people wait a decade 377 00:35:12.240 --> 00:35:17.360 to start the first hour and so you'd be amazed at how much progress you can make if you cut down 378 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:22.800 the time between when you acknowledge the work and when you start doing the work and I think that 379 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:28.240 over time my career what has happened is just that my my delay between what I really I need to do 380 00:35:28.240 --> 00:35:33.200 something and when I start doing it has just shrunk so that I can get to the gain in proficiency 381 00:35:33.200 --> 00:35:37.920 that much faster and then if you think about that over 10 years right where one guy goes nothing 382 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.080 and then he starts another guy does 20 hours and 20 hours and 20 hours and 20 hours and 20 hours and 383 00:35:42.080 --> 00:35:46.240 20 hours by the end of that decade they're not even recognizable they're not even the same they're 384 00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:52.160 not even the same stratosphere yeah what when you think about a good writer or a great writer an 385 00:35:52.160 --> 00:35:58.880 unstoppable writer what comes to mind and what separates the amazing writers versus everyone else 386 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:05.920 other than the work saying the work people do thousand put 2000 hours into a book what makes for 387 00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:13.280 an unstoppable incredible writer I don't think there is something else I'll qualify this which is 388 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:21.360 that the work needs feedback so you gain proficiency with expert eyes giving you feedback on the work 389 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:26.960 you do because if I I'll give you the content example if I post a short every day for for 10 years 390 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:31.920 and I don't change what I'm doing and I just post the same thing I might not make any progress and 391 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.440 I know people who've been though who've done made concept for 10 years and they have the same size 392 00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:40.960 following right because they don't learn they don't improve like I'm going to rewind real quick on 393 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:50.960 this is that the work is required for you not for the output somebody who naturally gets it on 394 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:56.720 the first try who really just understands it and this is an easy example if if if if Mr. Beasts 395 00:36:56.720 --> 00:37:02.960 account got canceled tomorrow he can start another one and get it to millions and millions 396 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:08.240 followers because he has the skill and so it's not that the output requires him to go work for five 397 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:13.440 years in order to build the following his skill required him to work for five years to get the 398 00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:19.040 skill but then the output does the work after that and so like the the time delay that people talk 399 00:37:19.040 --> 00:37:23.360 about like myself included when I'm trying like this is where nuance of advice comes in right where 400 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:27.520 it's like I tell people hey I want you to do 100 reps every day I don't want you to do the same 401 00:37:27.520 --> 00:37:32.080 hundred reps every day I want you to get better with all the reps and if you haven't looked at the 402 00:37:32.080 --> 00:37:35.280 end of the day and said what could I do better how could I improve and if you don't have somebody 403 00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:39.040 on the outside eyes being like hey you stumbled here on this call or hey when they said this let's 404 00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:44.080 drill this let's let's do this couple times that's how you get better right so you have to be willing 405 00:37:44.080 --> 00:37:49.280 to do the work and get the feedback to improve like the work works on you more than you work on it 406 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:54.800 and I think that's the piece that people miss like my prescription like a doctor money 407 00:37:56.240 --> 00:38:02.320 of working is for the for the person's skills not because I care about the fact that you made 10,000 408 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:08.880 phone calls I care about the fact that you got better 10,000 times how many sales calls do you 409 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:16.800 think you've been on in your life I've closed over 4,000 oh my god so what at what close rate well 410 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:21.920 mine were in person before the days of the telephone not really like I was I'd all myself almost all 411 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:28.320 my sales were in person but from a from a volume perspective do you think that that is a major 412 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:33.520 contributor for why you are such a good communicator an incredible communicator I would say 413 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:40.880 I think it's part of it things part of it um but you know it's funny a friend of mine saw some 414 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:47.600 my old gym lunch content and they were like dude have you like taking speech lessons they're like 415 00:38:47.600 --> 00:38:52.240 I saw an interview with you like in your garage and you're like oh yeah I mean I don't just 416 00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:59.600 do shit make money and go away if you don't want to work whatever and uh and so and so 417 00:39:00.240 --> 00:39:04.480 and at that point I'd already close 4,000 sales right but I'll give you something that 418 00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:08.960 that will probably just you know discourage some people I don't think that the sales skill I had 419 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:16.000 necessarily translated into the content skill I had to get 4,000 reps here and so when I say that 420 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.160 we make 350 pieces of content every week I have a lot of reps and here's the beautiful part about 421 00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:26.000 content in my opinion is that you get such fast feedback cycles you can immediately see what 422 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:31.040 happens and what work and what didn't right and then you can learn you can get better and not to 423 00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:35.520 get in the nuances of like don't being algorithm chaser and things like that but at least from a 424 00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:39.600 skill perspective contents one of those games that you can get really good at really quickly sales 425 00:39:39.600 --> 00:39:42.480 you have really fast feedback cycles you know if the person buys you can see if they change the 426 00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:46.320 body language whatever like oh I shouldn't say that next time or oh that worked like I'll say that 427 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:50.480 again right where the problem that she gets in and this learning cycle sometimes you learn the 428 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:54.720 wrong things sometimes the person was ready to buy because their friends sandy preferred them 429 00:39:54.720 --> 00:39:59.680 and then you do something fancy and then she says yes and it wasn't because of you she bought 430 00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:03.360 despite you right and so then you get false status and this is where you get like skill acquisition 431 00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:09.680 gets really interesting but overall I think the reason that I became more articulate is because I 432 00:40:09.680 --> 00:40:17.600 have just committed time to doing this yeah that seems to be a recurring theme yeah I've six 433 00:40:17.600 --> 00:40:22.880 years of podcasts yeah the first four years that like I just looked at a graph at like 434 00:40:24.080 --> 00:40:32.480 yesterday I looked at a graph and the day that we sold Jim launch is like the day it's like a 435 00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:37.360 straight line because I stopped so I started taking all the excess attention that I had from going 436 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:41.040 to the business and taking a portion of that I mean like I'm going to learn this skill 437 00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:48.240 and so it's straight line grew after that but it was like four years of flat-ish nothing because 438 00:40:48.240 --> 00:40:54.080 realistically I don't think I took any feedback from my podcast I just consistently made the podcast 439 00:40:54.080 --> 00:40:58.880 so there's an element there where I'm like I like I say this and I'm not saying it to preach I'm 440 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:05.280 saying because I lived it right like I made a podcast for four years and didn't grow right I did 441 00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:11.440 like 400 episodes before it actually like started growing I got the same 2,000 people who listened 442 00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:17.440 every month that's monthly listens not daily monthly listens of 2000 right and then I was like I'm 443 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:22.960 going to try and learn this and then I started trying to learn it and trying to get better yeah and 444 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:30.880 one of your core skills is being a good learner I feel as well so this is this is a good I appreciate 445 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.720 that and I'm going to segue into this for the audience is that I think there are skills like 446 00:41:34.720 --> 00:41:38.560 and there are meta skills so meta skills are skills that help you learn skills right and so 447 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:44.800 like being a good writer is a meta skill for communication in general so if I'm a good writer I'll 448 00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.240 be getting it writing copy we're getting writing emails we get writing captions I'll be getting 449 00:41:48.240 --> 00:41:52.880 it right scripting tweets I'll be good at making sure like all of those come from one skill but it's 450 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:57.680 a meta skill right if you get it reading it's like well then I absorb a lot of information so 451 00:41:57.680 --> 00:42:02.320 I can then learn how to write copy I can learn how to make ads I can learn how to all of those 452 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:07.920 things faster and so in my opinion the education system should only be on meta skills so that you 453 00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:14.720 become like a stem cell for knowledge is that how do we get the person so that they can become 454 00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:20.400 anything right like we don't need to teach 17th century Aztec literature we should do is teach 455 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:25.440 people how to learn and then let them learn whatever they want to learn because people all get 456 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:30.240 interested in something and just and then when they have the skills then they can get good at it 457 00:42:30.240 --> 00:42:35.920 and then they can make a living doing it okay a hundred million dollar learner what are some of the 458 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:44.640 chapters here learn repeat successful actions get feedback from people who are further add than you 459 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:50.880 expand the time horizon that you measure your output on but shrink the time horizon that you 460 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:56.720 measure inputs on so measure what you do today faster but measure what happens from what you did 461 00:42:56.720 --> 00:43:04.080 today longer that's it like find people ahead of you figure out what they did if that's what you 462 00:43:04.080 --> 00:43:09.760 want to learn do the inputs and measure them quickly short term get feedback and then don't and then 463 00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:14.800 wait a long time until you get the outcome that you want but I would say instead of optimizing for 464 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:19.040 the outcome I optimize for progress and so a lot of my team knows this is that like 465 00:43:20.720 --> 00:43:26.240 I'll tell you I'll tell you a quick story so when I got into when I started to start making content 466 00:43:26.240 --> 00:43:30.720 I hired a YouTube agency or whatever because I didn't know anything about any of the stuff right 467 00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:33.840 like nothing it's kind of it's funny because people were like asking me to talk about content like 468 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:38.960 I didn't do this to you and so anyways I get on the phone and I said hey just so you know 469 00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:46.640 I'm committed to doing this for 10 years and he was like what I was like yeah I was like I will 470 00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:54.480 I will follow the system that you outlined for 10 years before I need to see an ROI he was like 471 00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:59.680 that is the weirdest thing I've ever heard in my entire life he's like and and and that was the 472 00:43:59.680 --> 00:44:06.000 first conversation it was fine or whatever right and I told him after that I was like to be clear 473 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:11.200 I was like I want to make progress I want to see that our videos are doing better you know month 474 00:44:11.200 --> 00:44:15.280 over month over month in general not this video to the next video but month over month I want to see 475 00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:19.200 that like if I'm putting attention to this that we're getting better that's all I want to see 476 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:28.320 and so six months in things started really cranking right and I think nine months in I ended up 477 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:33.920 saying I'm gonna bring the whole team in house and we had an amicable party right and on the last 478 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:39.280 call that I had with him he said I just want to share something with you that has changed my life 479 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:45.840 and I was like what he said that first call he said I have never had anyone in my entire life 480 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:51.920 friends family mentors ever talk to me about a 10-year time horizon for anything he's like every 481 00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:56.880 client I sign up is like I need to ROI in 90 days or I'm not going to pay you or or like if this 482 00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:02.720 doesn't make me money in a month like I'm out right and he's like and it completely shifted the 483 00:45:02.720 --> 00:45:08.000 way that I have approached my business just seeing how you approached YouTube and I 484 00:45:10.240 --> 00:45:14.640 have been in the business game longer than I've been in the content game and so some of those 485 00:45:14.640 --> 00:45:18.400 lessons have carried over for me and so I'm like of course it's going to take a while I'm competing 486 00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.320 against you know Mr. Beast and I'm not saying competing against him he's he's he's amazing right 487 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.840 but like I'm competing against guys have been doing it for 10 years of course it better than I am 488 00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:30.320 why would I expect to be those guys right but I'd like to be better in a month or two than I am now 489 00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.800 and as long as I have a path towards that I'm satisfied and I will continue on that path because if I 490 00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:39.840 can draw the line between now and 20 years from now then it's a good outcome and I think that 491 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:43.600 that being able to draw the line and say like I just want to see that I'm getting better 492 00:45:44.240 --> 00:45:48.000 that's all that people in my opinion should focus on now if you're not getting better and 493 00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:52.320 you're doing the inputs and you're putting the real time into the thing then it means you need 494 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:56.720 somebody to give you better feedback because you don't like if you don't know why you're not 495 00:45:56.720 --> 00:46:00.720 not doing better like if I say hey editor make this video better and they're like I don't know 496 00:46:00.720 --> 00:46:04.320 what to do that's when you need someone to say like here's six things that you can do better and then 497 00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:07.760 they're like oh so you need the awareness you need someone to be able to get to bridge that 498 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:14.240 knowledge gap so that then you can bridge the effort gap when was the first time you realized 499 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:21.920 the importance of putting in progress leading to a long-term result I mean what comes to mind 500 00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:27.040 for me initially is the the gym teacher who took you under his wing with lifting weights 501 00:46:27.040 --> 00:46:32.800 but is there is there something else that comes to mind for you I if I if I gave you an answer 502 00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.880 I'd be making it up I think I've always mentioned progress you know I just want to know I'm getting 503 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:46.080 better yeah makes sense which of your earliest jobs are playing the biggest role in your current 504 00:46:46.080 --> 00:46:55.360 day-to-day I mean realistically none of them like you know what I mean like I cherish my time as 505 00:46:55.360 --> 00:47:02.800 a blended gender at Smoothie King and you know as a as an orthodox Jewish caterer and as a you know 506 00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:10.720 fur coat brush her in a warehouse but you know none of those things realistically taught me any 507 00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:15.360 skills now I learned through observation to see what some of them were doing but I would honestly 508 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:19.840 when I tell stories about even the fur coat dealer some of those things I actually had to learn 509 00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:24.880 business later and then retroactively look back at that situation was like oh that's what they 510 00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:29.360 were doing like I don't even have the context to make the judgment at the time and like I remember 511 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:33.040 like in the Smoothie King I was like we would do the sale tally at the end of the day and he was like 512 00:47:33.040 --> 00:47:38.400 2000 3000 dollars every day and it never even registered for me like it like I never even thought 513 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.080 of it as money it was just like the number and there was certain amount that I had to write that 514 00:47:42.080 --> 00:47:45.520 was cash and I put that in the safe and then a certain amount that I was like credit cards and you 515 00:47:45.520 --> 00:47:48.240 put it in you to tally it up with the cup counter or whatever at the end of the day and I 516 00:47:49.040 --> 00:47:56.000 and be like I didn't think about that being a million dollar business or what the revenue run rate was 517 00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:59.760 or what the margins were like I didn't think about any of that stuff I was just trying to I was just 518 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:04.720 trying to like make smoothies and so I'll do a tiny segue for for the audience here is that like 519 00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:13.360 I I reject the concept of being a born entrepreneur I think that we get better at things that we 520 00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:18.960 are reinforced for doing period and the natural born entrepreneurs are just typically people who 521 00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:23.600 got reinforced for doing entrepreneurial type behaviors earlier so like I was a very security 522 00:48:23.600 --> 00:48:28.800 different person for most of my life so like I just had jobs and then I went to college and then I 523 00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:33.520 got a white collar job that had prestige around it and the most terrifying thing in the entire 524 00:48:33.520 --> 00:48:38.720 world for me was putting that job it took me six months to put a job and I was 22 or 23 and I had 525 00:48:38.720 --> 00:48:44.160 $50,000 saved up and I was petrified and to this day was still the most afraid I've ever been in my 526 00:48:44.160 --> 00:48:49.520 entire life was putting that job which is ridiculous to me now in retrospect but it was because I had 527 00:48:49.520 --> 00:48:54.320 never been rewarded for that so it was such a huge change in behavior for me from following the 528 00:48:54.320 --> 00:49:00.400 trot and path because I've been rewarded over and over and over and over and over and over again 529 00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:07.920 for doing what I was told