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I feel like I fundamentally a lot of times don't understand the world.

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And so I think the reason that some people have found the content and things like that

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good or useful is because they feel like they can understand it.

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It's just because I didn't get it, right?

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And so I just make an attempt to define the terms that a lot of us use every day

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and then it makes a lot easier to solve for those things in business.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers,

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how to make more customers, how to keep them longer,

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and the many failures and lessons we have learned along the way.

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I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

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I spend several hours consuming all of your content across multiple channels.

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What is the aim? What is the mission? What is the intent?

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If you were to try and summarize the content you're producing and the value you're trying to add

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and to who are you trying to add it to, to make business accessible for everyone.

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That was the mission of the company.

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And so our whole idea was we'll put everything out there for free.

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So no paywalls. So there's like we have courses on the site.

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The books I have for 99 cents so that anyone can get them.

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And we'll continue to produce as much as we can.

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And we share the learnings that we have from our portfolio companies

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in order to keep the stuff that we are putting out there relevant new fresh cutting edge

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because this is what's working today.

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By doing that, it also brings other companies to us because they get value from the stuff.

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And our goal is always to hopefully provide more value to a company before they've

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ever spoken to us.

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Like kind of pay for ourselves in advance.

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It's kind of like the thought process even though we're buying it.

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And that was kind of the thesis when we started it.

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I didn't know if it was going to work.

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But it seems to have gone pretty well.

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And it was just kind of just like if we just give and keep giving and keep giving

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we just focus on the value and delivering to the audience, it'll come back eventually.

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What are you giving them and who are you giving it to?

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Entrepreneurs at all stages.

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We've served the audience.

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25% of the audience has a business.

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75% does not have a business but wants to start a business.

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And so that's just kind of overall.

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And then within that 25% it just kind of categories all the way up to

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businesses doing 100 million plus a year.

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And so it's everyone.

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And so we try and are one of the things that we talk about is going wide and deep.

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It's like how can we figure something that is relevant to somebody who's launching their

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first product and also make it accessible or interesting to somebody who's launching a new

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product line within a division of their conglomerate.

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And just trying to think about both people at the same time, which becomes more challenging,

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but it's also kind of fun.

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Kind of like a funnel isn't it in some respects.

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That's exactly what I saw from your content.

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You're making great content that's helping people that are at the start of their journey.

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Or you know 100 employees deep into their journey trying to figure out how to scale.

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You're making content that's bringing down some of the barriers where the psychological

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or practical to enable them to reach whatever dream they have.

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Let's go way upstream then.

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What do I need to know about you to understand the life you've led?

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Take me way back to your childhood in the early context.

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Both parents are immigrants to the US.

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Mother was born in France, came here, but father was born in Iran.

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They met in medical school in Europe and then my mother brought him back with her to the US.

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And then they had me and they split.

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My mom had a lot of demons.

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She had a lot of things she struggled with when I was coming up.

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So I pretty much was raised by my dad had no siblings.

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It was just me and my dad for until I was about 15.

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He got remarried.

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It was a short stand in terms of how long I was like in the house.

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You know like right at that stage is when you can drive and I was kind of on my own at that point.

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As soon as I could work and drive I was kind of out of the house.

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And then from there.

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Did the thing that most people tried to, which is I worked hard at school,

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most because I just didn't want my dad to be upset with me,

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which was the main driver for most of my achievement in my career.

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For the first half was all just trying to gain his approval.

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Did all the things that I thought he would want me to

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got a job at a government contracting consulting firm.

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A defense contracting is space cyber and ISR.

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So it's intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance for the military.

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Sounded really cool.

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Was less cool when you were in it.

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And I was very, very sad at that point in my life.

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And so it was very much like I didn't, I always hoped I wouldn't wake up the next day.

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And it was truly you really mean that 100% 100% because I remember when I was looking at

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a lot of people have like rock top moments, sorry rock bottom moments.

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I think I had more very rock top moment, which was I was 22.

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I had done everything that my dad had wanted me to do at this point.

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I was looking out from the condo that I had been able to buy with this job that I had.

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And I was like, is this it?

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In the whole time, I just really didn't enjoy my life.

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And it was just, you know, not wanting to wake up.

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And it was the decision to leave Baltimore, which is where I was from,

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to quit that path, to decide to start a business of my own, was still to the stay the hardest

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thing I've ever done. By far, all the things we've been through to build, we have the hardest

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decision was taking the leap for me. And it was because like I knew that my dad so much wanted

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me to do what I was doing because he was so happy that I was doing everything he wanted me to do

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at that point. And I had told him over and over again that I wanted to do this other stuff. And he's

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like, yeah, like later, you know, later. And so I knew that it would probably put a big

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dent in our relationship if I left. But for me, it was actually confronting the fact that I

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didn't want to be alive anymore, which was the thing that gave me enough courage or whatever you

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want to call it to actually make the decision to leave home. And so I started driving across the

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country. I mean, it took me six months to do this. Like when I between when I decided I really

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wanted to do this. And when I actually did it took me six months. And I called him when I was like

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halfway across the United States. And I was like, I'm going to California. I'm going to open a

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gym. I'm going to get into fitness. And he was like, why are you so extreme? And he like lost it.

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And then we didn't really talk much for a long time. When you started

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realizing that your life was one way you didn't want to wake up in the morning. When you had that

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job in management consultancy, did you experience suicidal ideation? Is that what you were saying?

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When you said I didn't want I didn't want to wake up into my life every day. It was never like

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I've never had a like, this is how I'd kill myself. Nope, never had that. I just always like

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the idea that I could not wake up the next day sounded good.

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When you look back in hindsight from that moment backwards, what are the series of decisions or the

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the things that led you to find yourself in the position? And I asked that because there's a lot

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of people that can probably relate. And there's probably quite a consistent set of frog pads or

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stones that one has walked down for whatever reason that led you to a position where you go,

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what the fuck? Whose life is this? I think the like the one line summary for me was that like I

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felt like I had to let my dad's dream die for mind to live. And I felt like my entire life had

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always up to that point had been like, go to the school, do these studies. I mean, it's a

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common thing. It's not like I had something that a lot of people don't have many people. And to be

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fair, I'm very grateful for the skills, discipline, et cetera, that that instilled in me.

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Because I think you have the hard hand of an authoritarian parent when you're growing up and it

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teaches you a lot of skills. And then the flip side is if you have a very less affair parent,

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like you never learn those skills, which then benefit you later. So who knows?

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But for me, I knew that he just wanted me to be a doctor. That's what he was. That would have

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been his dream. I went to school as premed. And then I it was like even changing my degree from

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premed to just a business degree was like a huge deal. But he was okay with that as long as I

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followed like the business path. And so when I did my two years of consulting, which is kind of

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the typical like two to four years, you do consulting and then you apply to go to business school.

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When I was going through that process, I was answering the question for like the Harvard MBA.

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And it was like how will Harvard MBA help you shorten long term goals? And I sat there for like

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two days trying to answer the question. And I was like, it just isn't. I want to start a business.

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And so that was when I kept trying to start that conversation with my dad. And it just wasn't

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really happening. And so that's what that was kind of the breaking point for me was I just felt

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terrible about my life. And I just didn't like the way it was going. And

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I for me it was such a key point because the biggest line of reasoning I had for myself in order

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to convince myself to confront my father or at least disappoint my father or the version of myself

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that he wanted me to be was to say like I have to be comfortable dying in his eyes. And a lot of

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people like and many people might think that was hyperbole, but for me it was very true. Like I

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I knew that I would die in his eyes and I did. To give you context.

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So I had the gyms and I opened up multiple after that got to about six locations, sold those,

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started gym turnaround business did that for two years. All the while we weren't really,

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you know, we were like okay in touch. And then we started the licensing business which is gym

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launch. And that's the one that like really took off. And we hadn't been super in touch. And

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I got a call out of the blue. And he wasn't like a cold call. You know, I mean, I was like, this

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is weird. So I pick up the phone and he's like, you're going to want to sit down for this. And I was

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like, okay, what's up? I was thinking like cancer. You know, I mean, I'm just like, what is

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it going to be? He was like, I'm sorry. And I was like, for what? He was like, you know,

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everything. And I was like, okay. And I was very angry still because, and then this is what I

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told him. So I was like, he's like, you know, that point when people like get on stage and they

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accept the awards and might do at this point, I think we're probably taking home one and a half

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million a month, you know what I mean, and take home like personal income from the license. So

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there's a decent side like is it? I'm not, you know, conglomerate like probably what is

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decent sized business? And I was like, you know, when people get on stage and they accept awards

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for things, I was like, the first thing they always say is like, hey, I just want to thank my mom

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and dad for always believing in me. I was like, I'm not going to say that. I was like, because you

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didn't. I was like, you're only saying this now once everyone believed because it's not belief

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anymore. It's fact. It's evidence. I was like, so you're, I was like, this apology means nothing to

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me. And besides that, I stopped caring what you thought six years ago, which is why I left.

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And so I had like, that's like, I could have just accepted it and I didn't do that.

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How do you feel about that? I probably, like today, I probably would have said things. I

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appreciate it. I know where he was trying to extend an olive branch. And I just wasn't there.

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I was still seeing. I was still very angry that I had not gotten any support during that process.

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And maybe that was very well as me. But I was still very angry at that point. And you know,

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to give also a little bit of context, you know, his response that was like, well, we'll see how long

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it lasts. Yeah, joking. No. So like my father and I like, he is a very strong personality. And so do I.

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And we both think we're right. Are you angry about it now? Honestly, no. I mean, like,

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I think I can still feel the emotions. But I feel like I've, you know, thought about it enough

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to say that I can logically say, I think he absolutely did the best he could with what he had.

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Just a single dad, another country raising a kid, trying to get that kid to fit in and do the things

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that like one of the things that I think my dad always wanted me to be able to do is like, because

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he's darker skin than I am. He's Middle Eastern. He always wanted me to like have access to like

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the back rooms where like deals were made that he felt like he wasn't a part of. And so

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he just wanted me to have that. And so I think he just drove me as much as he could to get that.

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And it's just like when you're on the other side of it, like all you feel is never succeeding.

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But I can appreciate it now in retrospect. But it definitely was still, it hardened me.

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A lot. But that hardness, I think, has benefited me a lot in business.

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I had someone on the podcast say a quote, which I've never managed to forget. They said,

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you've got to realize that everybody you encounter, everybody that does you wrong. If you were them,

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and you'd been through what they've been through, and you had their brain, you'd be doing the

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exact same thing. And it's sound, it's obvious in one hand, but it's also very kind of illuminating

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that. Think about the person that's wrong either most. If you've been through their shoes,

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and you had that genetics, you'd be doing the exact same thing. It doesn't mean you have to let

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them off. But at least it invokes some empathy. If you hear that, you cannot both hate and understand

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someone at the same time. True. Like if you truly understand someone, then you can't hate them

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because you understand why. Like a lot of times I hate this from the unknown and not like,

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because you hate, because I mean, you almost say you're like, how could like, it's literally a

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statement of not understanding. Like how could you, if you understood, then you would know how.

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And that resentment is a byproduct of just not understanding as well. I'm just thinking about

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resentment that I've had in my life. When I think someone's wrong me, that sense of injustice,

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you're right. How could, yeah, how dare you? Did you ever manage to get your

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fuel to burn less dirty? Are you burning less dirty now? Yeah, I think so. You think so?

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Yeah, I think so. My team tells me that that's true. And if you look at like, because I do have

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some older videos that I've made from like, you know, years ago. And there's definitely a different vibe.

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I'm significantly friendlier than I was then. I mean, even the way I interacted with customers

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and, you know, the team was like purely fear driven. Like I was absolutely, because I didn't

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understand influences well yet. So only the stick I had was like, if I, if people are afraid of

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me, then they will immediately comply. And it's effective for short durations, but not for long

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durations. But I didn't know any better at the time. And then I slow, yeah, that's when I,

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you know, right around that point is when I met my wife. And then she just, you know, changed my

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life. And she started running all the businesses. And I'd see her and everyone loved her. And I was

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like, man, she'd do more more of that stuff and less of my stuff. She changed your life. Oh,

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yeah, for sure. Bar none. I mean, she's like, the best. How did she change you?

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She is brought out the absolute best of me. Like in just about every way. Like,

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didn't think we're going to go here. She just, she believed in me. And I think that's what most

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guys want. Truly. At least for me, that's what I wanted or needed. I'll tell you a story to

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illustrate it. So we met, talked for four hours in the first date, only about business,

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because that's all I wanted to talk about. And I pitched her on working for me. I was like,

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quick, your job worked for me. And she was like, I just made logically make sense. She was a

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personal trainer. I had a bunch of gyms. And I was like, you're this good. You should totally

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work for me. She was like, well, let's, you know, let's see how this goes. And so I had this idea

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for the turnaround business. And it was right as I had five, five locations at that point. And I

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wanted to try this thing out. So I flew out. Did three turnarounds flew back. And they started

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working. And then I sold all my gyms because it was like, okay, this, this makes even more money.

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I took all the money and put it into this gym. That one of the guys I was doing a turnaround with

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was like, dude, you just crushed this like, I'm a really good operator. Instead of turning his

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gyms around and walking away with just the money. He's like, you should just keep owning them. And

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I'll just fill up, fill them up behind you. So I could, I could launch one, two, three gyms

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a month and then own them all. He's like, you're leaving so much money on the table. It's like, okay,

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so we did this first launch. I put all the money in. He's like, of course, he had financial

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difficulties. And I had to personally, you know, personally guarantee the least normal stuff.

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And so I crushed this launch. And then a week up one morning, I checked the bank count. And

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it's completely empty. And I was like, what's happening? So I called him up and he was like, well,

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I know you're, you're skimming from the business. And I was like, what? He's like, I know you're,

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I know you're skimming. I was like, I'm, we just what? No. He's like, well, that was my half.

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And so I was like, what is happening? So I printed all the bank, the bank statements I went line

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by line. And I was like, let me, I'll walk you through all the bank statements. Let's just,

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let's get to the bottom of this. And remember, we sat to the meeting and he was like, I don't

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need to see that. He pushed it off the table. And I was like, Oh, okay. I immediately was like,

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Oh, he, I just got fired. And he'd already been indicted for fraud. And I knew this, getting into

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business with him. And he was just a big misunderstanding. And you know, the saying goes like, when

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experience meets money, money gets the experience and spirits gets money. Very much live that. And so

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after I had all my gyms, I sold them, put all the money in this thing and then I got taken. And so

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I had nothing. And Laila's with me at this point for this like this exciting period. So I was like,

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okay, she's like, Hey, you know, maybe we should keep doing these turn rounds instead of this weird

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launching go thing you sideline for. I was like, Okay, we'll do that. And so I was going to launch a

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gym the next month. And there was a guy who was local to that gym. And so I was refocusing. I was

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like, All right, I'm going to build all the infrastructure. I'll send the sales guy out to do this thing.

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And he crushed the launch did like 120,000, which for us was a big launch in like three days in

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three weeks. And so now I'm at Laila's parents house because like, you don't really have a house

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at this point. And I'm the guy that she met from the internet that you quit her job for who just

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lost everything. And I was, I needed this hundred grand to come in from this launch so that I could

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recapitalize. And the money wasn't hitting. I was checking the bank and I was like, where's

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this money? Like, I could see the processing, the transactions, and it was all successful. What's

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going on? It's I call the processor up. And I was like, what's up? And they, uh, they said,

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it's a routine check. I was like, I've been with you guys six years. It's never been a routine check.

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And they're like, call again later. And I was like, Okay, so I'll call about the next day, next day,

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nothing. And then finally, who's Christmas Eve? And I owed this guy money for the commissions from

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the sales. And I was like, I will not get off this phone until you send me the money that I am

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owed. And, uh, to the payment process. And they were like, long story short, uh, you were doing

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stuff in different locations. And I was running this all through a local gym business, even though

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it was all over the nation. And they were like, this is a little irregular. We're just going to hold

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on to this for six months. Right. Now I owe the guy $22,000 in commissions. I in total now had $23,000.

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So I wired him the money and I had $1,000 left. And it was December of 2016.

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And I was like, I screenshot it because I still have the screenshot of my bank account. So I went

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from like six gyms, turn around business, all the stuff to $1,000. And I was like, this sucks.

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And Layla had just got six of her friends to quit their job to come do this turn around business

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with me. And they were starting two days later from the 24th. So the 26th of the December,

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because I plan on getting this under grand end and then being able to launch six gyms because

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they took about, you know, whatever, uh, it was $3,300 a day in cost to have six guys out there

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in the field selling $3,300 a day that I did not have. And so I still had a credit card that

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$100,000 limit on it. Um, and so I'm at her parents house, like in, in an extra bedroom,

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having lost everything. And though my one Hail Mary play of this launch, the money did not come

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through. And I was like, I, I think you should leave me. Um, I, I think I'm a sinking ship right

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now. And I would respect you. Like, we're cool if you want to walk away. Like, we're good. Like,

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I won't think less of you. Like, I would walk away from you right now because this could,

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this has a very high likelihood of not going right. And um,

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um, she pulled my chin towards her. She was like, I would sleep with you in her bridge if it came to that.

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And it's hard to comprehend, but like, I had nothing, you know, like for her to have that kind of

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belief was, was very, it was deep for me. So it was like, fuck it. Let's go. You know what I mean? And

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so then we, we launched the gyms doing $3,300 a day. And uh, mind you, I had no way to process money

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still. So I'm collecting 60 to 80 contracts a day that I can't process. And if we're getting calls

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from customers like, Hey, why haven't you run my car? I have, why haven't you run my car? I'm

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calling all these processors to be like, Hey, can you please? And as soon as you get shut down from

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a processor, it's like a black mark. It's like going bankrupt for credit cards. Um, they're like,

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oh, no, something's weird. We, they just won't. There's other people that can process the money for

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finally, I get like a high risk processor that does like porn and casinos and stuff to like give

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me. And they're like, yeah, so it's going to be like 8% processing and we're going to hold 10%

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as like safeguard. And I was like, Jesus, okay, yes. And they're like, and we can only give you

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$50,000 as your limit. And I was like, I need like 200. And he's like, well, and I got this on the

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29th of January. So this whole time, 3,300 days running on this cart. And I have no money.

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And I have no way to process it. And 29th of January, I can run 50 grand. I run 50 grand in a day.

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And he's like, but it's by month. He's like, so February 1st, you can run another 50. So

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February 1st, I run another 50. That hundred covers my cost from the month before. And then

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I get two more processors for 50 boom, boom, run those. And then like, I got a third one or fourth

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one, like two weeks later. And I was able to like start moving things around. Um, and at the end

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of February, uh, we'd made like a $30,000 profit. And um, I was like, okay, I think we might be out

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of this the next month. We did a little bit more. And I was like, okay, I think this is working.

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And then all of a sudden, Layla tasked me on the shoulder one morning. And she's like, she like

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turns her laptop towards me. And it's our bank account and has all these negative transactions,

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like hundreds of them. And I was like, what's going on? She's like, well, all these clients are calling

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me saying that the gym that we did this launch ad month and a half ago, the guy got in his chair

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and was like, hey, there's too many of you here. Like, just go home. Just refund because I was the

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one who held the money. They had to do the delivery. That was the model is like, I would fill a gym

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up. I would sell. I'd keep the money. And then they deliver on the services. And after that,

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they could keep the customers. That was kind of like the setup.

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We'll go guys. You guys already know that I don't run any ads on this. And I don't sell anything.

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And so the only ask that I can ever have are you guys that you help me spread the words. We can

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out more entrepreneurs, make more money, feed their families, make better products, and have better

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experiences for their employees and customers. And the only way we do that is if you can

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rate and review and share this podcast. So the single thing that I have to do is you can just

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leave a review, take 10 seconds or one type of the thug that would mean the absolute world to me.

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And more importantly, it may change the world to someone else.

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And then another gym the next week said, hey, this guy made a hundred grand out of my gym.

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The average gym owner makes 36,000 dollars a year take home. It's like this kid from the internet

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took 100 grand out in a month. Screw that kid. And so he told all the customers who were there

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after we left, hey, I'll keep you living your thing. Refund him. Just pay me half what you paid him.

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So after you out, right. It was a flawed model. Like I didn't understand. Like I didn't get it

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at that point. And so we had 150,000 dollars in refunds that I had to cover. And I had no way of

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doing it. Mind you, like Layla's like, we're going to do this. I believe in you. And so I'm like,

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I'm like, I can't sleep. I remember because what would happen is like the more we sold the more

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the refund, like it was a vicious cycle. So I had to sell more to cover the refunds from the

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ones that were coming in. And so our sales were going up. And it was just like I just I couldn't breathe.

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And I was just I would wake up at night. And anyways. And so I'm like writing down these ideas

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of like what I think I could do. We had eight launches that were supposed to launch next month.

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So I said, hey, Layla, you have this little weight loss business because she had her personal

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training business. So you converted her own her in-person clients online during this whole process.

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So she's making like three, four thousand dollars a month. And most of it is like, I'm not stable.

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I'm like, making all this big money and losing it all and making it and losing it. And she's just

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like paying groceries and actually like making sure that I can eat. And I was like, tell me more

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about that. I was like, what's your over it? How much time does it take you? And then blah, blah, blah.

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I was like, we're going to we're going to do your thing. We're going to we're going to call queen

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transformation. I'm going to start running ads for it. And we're going to take the sales team. And

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we're going to put it on your thing. And so within 14 days she starts taking the phone calls because

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she was a good salesman. She's doing a thousand bucks a day online. No, no, all margin. What's the

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product? It was a 16 week like weight loss program. Online. Yeah, online. Exactly. And so it was 500

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bucks. She was selling two of them a day. And so I was like, man, if we get to eight, eight guys

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going, we'll have 8,000 a day, 240 after that. And I was like, I can make one 15 profit. And like,

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we'll be in the clear. So I called the eight guys that were supposed to launch the next month,

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the gyms. So I get on the phone with the first guy. I was like, hey, we're going into their

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direction. You know, we're going to we're going to be a weight loss company still directing consumer.

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And he was like, dude, you launched my buddy's gym like two months ago. And like he can't stop

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talking about you. It's like, it's packed because there are other gyms that everything went fine

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with just the ones that didn't is the ones that crushed the business. He's like, I know you can do

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it. And I just refinanced my house and I maxed out my credit cards to to to make this gym happen.

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And I'm going to lose it. And given what I had been through up to this point, I was like,

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that's tough, man. Sorry about that. And then finally, it was like, okay, instead of flying,

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can you just show me what you did to tell my buddy out? Can you just give me like the system?

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And since I was like, I'm going to get out of this gym business. I was okay like selling my

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secrets. And so I was like, all right, man, I'll I'll give you everything I have, but I'm not

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going to fly out there to save your ass if you can't sell. And he said, no, no, it's fine. And so

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I picked up the highest number I could think of because you already told me he was broke. So I

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think I could just get him off the phone so we could move on. And I said $6,000. And he was like,

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six grand. And I was like, yeah. And he was like, oh done. And I remember like looking at the

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phone and being like, holy shit, $6,000. And I was like, oh, what card do you want to use for that?

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Road like a cardboard box. And then the next call had the same thing. And I was like, well,

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should I have to make this thing? No, no, same conversation. He's like, how much? I was like eight

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grand. And he was like, yeah, okay. And I each of the calls was like, next call, same thing,

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10 grand, next call, same thing, 12 grand. And then the next, you know, the end of the day,

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I sold $60,000 in licensing packages for all of the stuff that we did to do the turnarounds.

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It's not monthly or is that just one thing? It was a, it was a, I didn't even have it. I was just

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like, I'm just giving you everything I do. Yeah. It, it became more of like more, it became a

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recurring model over time. It was a PDF. It was actually all my internal stuff. So it was like,

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what I used to train my sales teams that would fly out and like what I would use to train them on

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how to do the nutrition orientation. Like it was all the internal stuff. The only thing I actually

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made external was I had to create the advertising material. So I had to basically make a white

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label landing page for the gyms that they could put their logo on. And then I gave, I licensed

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them the ads themselves that we already do converted. Right. So like the video is the copy,

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everything. They used like videos of me that we knew converted. And I taught them how to run

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them. And then that's, that's what it did it. And we made $60,000 in a day. And I like Laila came

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in from doing her two sales for weight loss. And I was like, I think we're still in the gym

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business. And she was like, what? I thought we were doing weight loss. Like you just told me,

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you sold me on weight loss, being like the next thing. I was like, I just, I just think we were

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doing it wrong. And so I explained what had happened. And she's like, so is this what we're

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going to do now? And I was like, I guess, I was like, I can call the other 30 gyms that we did

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the turn arounds for. I was like, they know we can do it because we just did it for them.

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And so I called all those guys up and we did like $300,000 in sales that month. And it was

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basically all profit and I covered the refunds and I covered everything. And we were like in the

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clear. And then, and then it was just, and then all those gyms that we did that we sold,

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the average gym did $30,000 and extra cash collected in their first month using our system.

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And so the key was that like, if they didn't have to pay the overhead of the sales guy who's there

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every day at the hotel, the commission for that guy, like the rental car, the protein,

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like all the stuff that you have to incentivize and just like rent it out of their own gym and

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work the leaves themselves, it became incredibly profitable for them. And then it just took off

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like wildfire. Like we went from like our first full 12 months of like January to January.

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We did 26 million top line, 17 million in EBITDA, our first 12 month. Like it was, it was

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insane. Like it's hard to comprehend that. Like that was the moment I had been like dead broke

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in her parents' house. And then like six months later, I have $3 million in the bank account.

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And then like 12 months after that, I've got like 20 million, it was insane. And I don't

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even know how you could pay taxes. I was figuring all this stuff out. But through that whole thing,

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Laila was just like, you can do this. We can do this. We've got this. And I think sometimes you

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just need one voice behind you that just keeps believing. What happened then? So that's 2016.

380
00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:28.240
You turn things around over the next couple of years. What happens? You know, leading up to where

381
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:31.280
we are today in terms of your business. Can you get a top line summary in terms of what?

382
00:30:31.280 --> 00:30:38.320
Yeah. I'll give you the TLDR. Continue to grow gym launch. Two years later, we started a

383
00:30:38.320 --> 00:30:43.200
sub one company called Prestige Labs. At this point, we had thousands of gym owners that had licensed

384
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:46.240
the business model and the ads and all the stuff that we were doing. And so we sold through that

385
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:50.880
distribution base. That company grew pretty, pretty, pretty quickly. A year after that, we started

386
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:56.240
a software company that also helped gyms get leads in the doors. It's just like an automated

387
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:05.760
lead thing. And then 2021, we sold all three of those companies, the supplement and the licensing

388
00:31:05.760 --> 00:31:09.600
company we sold to American Pacific Group, which is a private equity firm out of San Francisco,

389
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:18.080
for 46.2 million. We sold two thirds of the company. And then the software company, we actually

390
00:31:18.080 --> 00:31:22.080
sold to a strategic buyer who had like a massive base and we had a better monetization system

391
00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:27.520
than they did. And that was an all stock deal. So we're just continuing to grow under their umbrella

392
00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:32.240
and they'll probably sell them four or five years. But from that, and what we had taken in dividends

393
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.080
during the licensing business for the five years that it was rock, I mean, still is rock and

394
00:31:38.080 --> 00:31:43.280
enrolling. We started acquisitions in Akron. So that became kind of our family office.

395
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:47.680
And so we started our first investments. I think the first investments we did was in 2020. So

396
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.440
there is some overlap there. And part of the reason that I was willing to sell it was because the

397
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:57.280
investments, the first three or four investments we did did really well. And it was like, okay,

398
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:02.000
this is what I want to do is the next thing. Because I didn't want to be the gym guy for my life

399
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.680
because I had been, you know, at this point, it had been I think more than a decade that I'd been

400
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:11.520
from like sleeping on the gym floor to having multiple occasions to doing the turnaround business,

401
00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:16.240
to doing the licensing, like I'd been in that game for a long time. And I think that maybe I could have

402
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:20.320
stayed there and could have just continued to compound it and started doing acquisitions under

403
00:32:20.320 --> 00:32:27.360
that fitness umbrella. But I wanted to do more general business stuff. And so that was that's

404
00:32:27.360 --> 00:32:32.640
what we did. And so now we, now we buy chunks of companies, usually usually minority states,

405
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.960
25 to 49-ish percent. I mean, we have one that we're in the talks of that we were originally

406
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:40.480
a minority stake in. And we're going to take majority because it's been a great company. And they

407
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.640
want to, the founder in the same position as I was, like, just wants to do other stuff. And

408
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:48.560
it's a great business. And so, but that's kind of how we, we see it as like growth partners.

409
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:53.600
We come in, we write a check, we add value, we help grow the business.

410
00:32:54.080 --> 00:32:58.320
What are you brilliant at? You know, you kind of, you kind of come to learn what you're good at

411
00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:02.240
based on comparison, but you kind of understand your area of expertise. What is your

412
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:10.240
area of brilliant, brilliant expertise? I really want to ask Caleb. Caleb, West Caleb, we can barely see.

413
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:16.640
So Caleb sat over on the sofa in the corner of the studio. He is a friend and creative director

414
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:22.480
of Alex. And I'm asking Caleb what Alex is good at. What's his area of brilliance?

415
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:31.200
Unlike it, solving problems for companies, simplifying complex things into more digestible,

416
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:36.240
actionable solutions as well. And how would you answer that question if you were answering

417
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:40.400
for yourself? I feel like I fundamentally a lot of times don't understand the world. And so,

418
00:33:41.040 --> 00:33:47.200
I think the reason that some people have found the content and things like that, good or useful

419
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:50.960
is because they feel like they can understand it. It's just because I didn't get it, right?

420
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:56.640
Like terms like value. I probably provide more value. What does that mean? And so I just make

421
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.720
a, make an attempt to define the terms that a lot of us use every day. And then it makes a lot

422
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.120
of easier to solve for those things in business. And so a lot of people like I want to grow my business.

423
00:34:05.520 --> 00:34:09.920
What does that mean? Well, get more customers, make them worth more. Okay. So one of those two

424
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:12.800
things. All right. Well, how do I make it more customers? Well, there's eight ways to do it.

425
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:17.360
Here are the eight ways. Which one do you feel like your best at? And just like kind of thinking

426
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:22.720
through frameworks that way is just for me, it's just been my way of being able to be relatively

427
00:34:22.720 --> 00:34:27.360
competent in a world that feels confusing. Like there's a few things I feel like I can understand

428
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:31.840
and I just hold on to this. I mean, that's the very nature of innovation, isn't it? Like asking the

429
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:38.480
question, you know, we so so often our lives just accept words and phrases and ways of doing

430
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:42.160
things. And then there's a few people who are really good, like Elon's one of them. I just like

431
00:34:42.160 --> 00:34:47.840
asking why. And then when you ask why, like why can't you make an affordable quote unquote

432
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:54.160
electric vehicle that is fast? Everyone else said you can't. Yeah. But why? You know, and then he's

433
00:34:54.160 --> 00:34:58.720
great at breaking it down into like the core components of that innovation. So well, if we buy

434
00:34:58.720 --> 00:35:02.160
the metal on the ion exchange and we do this and this, then we can do it. Yeah.

435
00:35:03.040 --> 00:35:05.840
They said that's such an important thing in entrepreneurship, isn't it? There's some people who

436
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:14.000
just ask why? Naturally. Yeah. So it's like to the point like to Elon, it's like I don't understand

437
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:19.840
why we can't explain to me why we can't so that I can not think about this. And I feel like that's,

438
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.600
you know, I would say that that's the most common thing. Like why is this company growing? Like I

439
00:35:23.680 --> 00:35:28.800
don't get it. Like explain it to me. And then usually a lot of people, it's like they're in this

440
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:33.200
car to this loop. You know what I mean? Of doing what they've always done. Or like believing that

441
00:35:33.200 --> 00:35:39.760
this is the only way. And I think a lot of times I've benefited from like not knowing because I

442
00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:45.840
my questions don't seem stupid to me. But only to somebody who like knows what they're doing.

443
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:49.200
It seems stupid. And so from there, we're able to like, I guess to your point, innovate,

444
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:54.720
just by being like, I don't understand. That's what Steve Jobs, from everything that I've

445
00:35:54.720 --> 00:35:57.760
read about Steve Jobs and my brief conversation with Steve Wozniak once upon a time,

446
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:06.080
is he was just the voice in the room that never understood why they couldn't. And even when we

447
00:36:06.080 --> 00:36:11.040
think about him removing the keyboard and doing, you know, not refusing to use a stylus and all

448
00:36:11.040 --> 00:36:15.200
these other crazy things he did, not using JavaScript at the time and changing the port and removing

449
00:36:15.200 --> 00:36:21.360
the iPhone jack, that that is somebody who is so strong in their convictions in terms of like

450
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:25.520
doing things anyway. How important do you think that is generally it like what in your view,

451
00:36:25.520 --> 00:36:34.000
what makes a really good entrepreneur slash leader? I think that they have to have the power to

452
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:38.640
influence and that is across a lot of things. Just they have to be able to move other people.

453
00:36:38.640 --> 00:36:42.560
And you can define sales as the ability to get people to comply with your request. You can

454
00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:47.920
define leadership the same way, management, marketing to a degree, is getting people to comply with

455
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:52.960
a larger request, you know, publicly. But I think that fundamentally is a skill that people have to

456
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.640
have if they're going to be successful at entrepreneurship. They have to have tremendous drive, whether

457
00:36:56.640 --> 00:37:00.240
that's a combination of towards or away. So they have a big mission that they really want to achieve

458
00:37:00.240 --> 00:37:05.600
or they have some very big fear that they're running away from. Either way, I think the fuel works

459
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:11.600
just from a pure entrepreneurship perspective. The third piece is impulse control is that they have to

460
00:37:11.600 --> 00:37:19.840
be able to say no to things on a regular basis for an extended period of time. And I think they have

461
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:25.440
to be able to boil down the success of their business into inputs and outputs. Like if you do not

462
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:28.960
know the inputs that are going to get the output that you want, then what are you doing?

463
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:33.680
And so I think for most entrepreneurs like if they have those things, if they have the ability to

464
00:37:33.680 --> 00:37:40.000
lead other people, slash sell just influence. They have some big motivator. They can control

465
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.320
themselves long enough to keep on going during that period of time. And they are doing the right

466
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:48.400
things because they know the inputs and outputs to be successful or to create their out the thing

467
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:54.080
that they want becomes a very difficult person to be. On that first point, then sales.

468
00:37:54.880 --> 00:38:01.120
One of the things I read in some of your work is this idea that if everybody just went and

469
00:38:01.120 --> 00:38:06.560
spent two years doing door to door sales, then why is that important? Why do you think door to

470
00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:12.240
door sales is a key thing? I think it's just for broader definitions for the audience. I think

471
00:38:12.240 --> 00:38:17.280
it's just high volume transactional sales. So whether that's you doing door to door or you cold

472
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:22.560
calling or you working the front desk at a gym where you do 20 consults a day, like just having a

473
00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:28.400
high volume because in order to learn a skill, you want to have as much exposure as you can to

474
00:38:29.040 --> 00:38:33.600
repeat the action. And then you want quick feedback loops so that you can learn what you did

475
00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:40.400
wrong. So the perfect scenario would be mentor, mentee, repeated exposure, fix this, try again,

476
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:45.840
fix this, try again. And in sales, if you can survive that long, then you are good enough

477
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:49.200
that you will have got enough feedback. Like for most people, if they can weather the first three

478
00:38:49.200 --> 00:38:54.240
months of sales, then they'll usually be fine. And so for the people who are coming up, I always

479
00:38:54.240 --> 00:38:58.400
tell them like go shout out of the best guy and do twice the volume he's doing because you're not

480
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:03.040
as good as him. So like do twice the volume that they're doing, work all of the hours and you will

481
00:39:03.040 --> 00:39:07.120
get better faster because you're doing you have to suck for X period of time. And so if you can

482
00:39:07.120 --> 00:39:12.000
condense how long that takes you in terms of calendar days, not hours, you can get there faster.

483
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.120
But I think that it's important because when you have to learn how to get rejected and still keep

484
00:39:15.120 --> 00:39:19.440
going. And I think that's a very valuable skill. And then too, there's lots of like little things

485
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:24.160
that you learn in just interpersonal communication that allow you that you can use with teammates late

486
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:27.920
or you can use in marketing because a lot of the best marketers started as sales people.

487
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:31.680
And marketing is just sales one to many, at least as I understand it.

488
00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:37.040
And so having that kind of repetition just develops a deep understanding of human psychology,

489
00:39:37.040 --> 00:39:42.240
I think. And I think it's important for if you want to get people to give you money for the thing

490
00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:49.040
that you have, having that as a base skill comes in handy. I think a lot of people aren't orientated

491
00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:55.760
towards developing skills. I think they're orientated to lifestyle, to what I can post on Instagram,

492
00:39:56.560 --> 00:40:02.480
to cool, whatever's cool. But this idea of developing skills requires this thing that's

493
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:07.840
kind of absent in modern culture, which is patience. And like you said rejection, he wants that.

494
00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:15.520
There was no glamour in what you said. It's funny because a lot of us want traits. We want to be

495
00:40:15.520 --> 00:40:19.280
patient. We want to be humble. We want to be long-suffering, whatever words you want to use.

496
00:40:20.560 --> 00:40:25.760
But in order to, if I would say hey, how would you create, if you had to create a human,

497
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:31.760
what would you put them through to make them tough? It probably wouldn't be a really chill life.

498
00:40:32.640 --> 00:40:36.080
What would you put them through to make them patient? We probably wouldn't give them things immediately.

499
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:42.080
And so it's like we want these traits, but each of the traits has a price tag attached to it.

500
00:40:42.080 --> 00:40:46.000
And it's just like do you want to pay the price tag to get the thing? And so I think if people

501
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:50.080
reframe the period of life that they're going through, as the price that they're paying out of

502
00:40:50.080 --> 00:40:53.920
their wallet, but the wallet is their time, as the seconds of life that they're trading for it,

503
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:56.960
then I think more people will be willing to make the trade. Because at least when I look at myself,

504
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:01.200
like when I'm 80, something years old and I'm looking back on my life, I want to have these traits.

505
00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:04.320
But in order to have those traits, I know I have to go through these things. And I think for me,

506
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:11.200
that's given me a lot of comfort in hard times. One of the things that kind of adjacent to that,

507
00:41:12.080 --> 00:41:15.440
which causes patients, is the belief that you are at some point going to get there.

508
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:20.400
So it's all well and good you saying to me, you do this for five years, Steven,

509
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.960
you'll build the skill. But I go, well, listen, if I were to be a millionaire,

510
00:41:24.240 --> 00:41:28.000
and I have low self belief, I'm going to have low conviction. So I'm not even going to take the bet.

511
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:28.720
Yeah.

512
00:41:28.720 --> 00:41:33.280
So how does one build that self belief? Self belief is such an interesting thing because it feels

513
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:38.240
like this reel, it's clear to some degree that you had it in that moment of turmoil.

514
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:41.360
Also, the reason I say to some degrees, because it didn't seem like you had a plan B anyway.

515
00:41:46.240 --> 00:41:51.200
You were already in your parents and those play room or whatever, so I never lose.

516
00:41:51.200 --> 00:41:54.400
Yeah, you're nothing to lose. So I don't know how much self belief is applicable,

517
00:41:54.400 --> 00:42:00.080
but regardless to keep gracing those hurdles, self, you need some kind of conviction that this

518
00:42:00.080 --> 00:42:06.640
is the right way to go. How do people build that? So I hear that and just like to echo the point

519
00:42:06.640 --> 00:42:12.800
you just made, I hated my current existence. And so I think some people like don't hate their

520
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:17.760
current existence enough. And so like, I don't think you know, like you either have to really believe

521
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:22.320
that this thing's going to happen or you have to know that your life sucks. And I knew that my life

522
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:27.760
sucked. And so I knew that if I did something else, it would have, it would have a higher likelihood of

523
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:33.440
changing my life than not doing something. And at least that's how I would say that I probably saw

524
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:36.720
it in the beginning. It's like I didn't know if it was going to work, but I knew that I wasn't going

525
00:42:36.720 --> 00:42:43.440
to start. I heard it quite some 10 years ago, which just came to mind when you said that on some

526
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:49.600
YouTube family vlog where you said change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater

527
00:42:49.600 --> 00:42:54.800
than the pain of making a change. And in your situation, that sounds like, well, this is less painful.

528
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:59.280
100%. I think, and I think that's the basis of most, either you have to have a word that is,

529
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:04.000
that that incentivizes you the way towards or away. It's either we're going away from pain or

530
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:06.880
going towards pleasure. And I think a lot of people are really looking for that passion that's

531
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:11.040
going to be towards. But I think early days, and I talk a lot about this, but like, I think negative

532
00:43:11.040 --> 00:43:20.160
motivation is poo-pooed too much. Like, if you are angry, use it. If you are sad, use it. Because like,

533
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:27.920
what else are you going to do with it? Like, you might as well let it help you. Like, or it uses

534
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:32.480
you. You know what I mean? And so I always like to see when I was in my earlier days. I felt like

535
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:37.280
I was wielding my anger at least in a direction. And I think also a lot of people think that they

536
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:41.440
have to get like it right on the first shot. But one of the beliefs that I had was that I just

537
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:46.400
want to be directionally correct. Like, if I move, I like, I know that I don't like this. And so

538
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:51.040
this way is not where I am. And so I will start taking steps this way. And from the story of the

539
00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:56.000
early start, it's like, I'll ping pong a little bit to try and directionally move that way. And

540
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:00.560
it's funny because Caleb's seen plenty of things from what we do at Acquisition.com where we're like,

541
00:44:00.560 --> 00:44:03.120
we'll try it out. And if it doesn't work, they're like, oops.

542
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:14.400
All good. Do you believe in yourself? I think that I have a high likelihood of repeating

543
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:18.560
activities that I've done in the past. And up to this point, I have lots of evidence that

544
00:44:18.560 --> 00:44:25.760
would suggest that I will continue. Why didn't you say yes? Because I base the answer on

545
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:29.440
that question or what I've done before. And I think it's been, it's just based on evidence now.

546
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:36.160
So it's not like I like charisma thing. At least for me, it's just like, I've done these things.

547
00:44:36.160 --> 00:44:40.320
And so I think it's probable that I'll be able to continue. Is there a deeper reason to why

548
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:46.880
you didn't just say yes? That's actually how I think about it. Is that because it feels difficult

549
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:52.960
to say you believe in yourself? Yeah, it feels weird. I don't know if Hoki is the right word for what

550
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:57.360
that feels like for me, but like saying the way that I said it is how I is how I feel about it.

551
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:02.320
Have you been on a journey of in terms of self-doubt over over the last, you know,

552
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:10.480
30 years? For sure. I think it was, I mean fear was my big fear and anger hand and hand

553
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:16.240
were my big motivators in the beginning. And I mean, maybe that's from self-doubt. I would say that

554
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:25.120
I was very certain. I can feel this and I remember this. I was always certain that I wasn't going to stop.

555
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:32.160
Like that, I didn't know whether I would succeed. I thought it was probable,

556
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:38.800
but I did know I wasn't going to stop. And so for me, that was like enough to get me going or

557
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:45.200
keep me going. It was like, what are the controllables? Me. Okay. Well, if I do this, so I'm big on

558
00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:50.720
making like unreasonable, like unreasonable that it doesn't work out statements, which is like if I do

559
00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:55.440
sales and I do more volume than everyone else on this team and I've shadowed the guy who's the best

560
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:00.640
and I do that for five years, it's unreasonable that I won't be at least mediocre. It will be

561
00:46:00.640 --> 00:46:05.600
probable that I'm above average. And it's also probable that I'll learn other things along the way.

562
00:46:05.600 --> 00:46:11.520
And I'll also have the resources at that point in five years that I can jump into things now that

563
00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:16.160
I have more context or perspective from which to make a judgment on what a good next opportunity is.

564
00:46:16.160 --> 00:46:21.600
And so I like very easy to believe statements and then having the input output equation being like

565
00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:26.240
the output is that I will be a very good salesman. The input is that I have to do. I have to collect

566
00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:32.400
5,000 knows. I collect 5,000 knows. I'll be a very good salesman. And that for me, like when I was

567
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:36.000
a kid when I played video games, I would beat the same level over and over and over and over again.

568
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:39.360
So that when I got to the next level, I would crush everybody because I had all the experience points

569
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:44.160
maxed out. And so like those input output equations are really helpful for me. Like when I took

570
00:46:44.160 --> 00:46:51.680
the GMAT to get into Harvard, my first score was like, okay, it wasn't great. But I read this study

571
00:46:51.680 --> 00:46:58.560
on how to do well on standardized tests. And they had this graph and it went like this. It was just

572
00:46:58.560 --> 00:47:04.960
a straight line. It said number of problems practiced on GMAT score. So like the more problems you did

573
00:47:05.600 --> 00:47:11.120
on average, the higher your test score was. And I was like, done. So I bought 16 phone books of

574
00:47:11.120 --> 00:47:15.520
like they're like these thick like test prep books. And I did four hours of problems every day for

575
00:47:15.520 --> 00:47:20.240
three months. Every day I get home from work, how do you dinner? I do four hours problems at a

576
00:47:20.240 --> 00:47:25.840
time or every day. And then I scored 99. Whatever percentile because it was just input output.

577
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:31.680
Like I didn't I didn't I was nationally not even that good at math. But I just was like if I do

578
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:36.320
10,000 fucking problems like I'll start to just understand how these problems get asked. And so like

579
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:40.880
I was trying to find like what's the input output for this? The content game? I was like, okay.

580
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:45.920
Well, if we post once a day on one platform, we will get some eyeballs. If we post on every platform

581
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:49.440
every day, we will get more eyeballs. If we post multiple times a day on every platform, we'll get

582
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:55.440
even more eyeballs. So let's do that. Let's build that system. 100%. And so like those are the like

583
00:47:56.160 --> 00:48:00.640
I try and make statements that I believe are unreasonable that if I do it enough, it will be true.

584
00:48:00.720 --> 00:48:03.680
And so that's for me, that's what gives me the confidence to say like,

585
00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:08.000
what if it's not work? I'm like, it will eventually. Like if we just keep doing it, it will work.

586
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:15.680
What does it take to want to do something potentially for you so that you can get it good at it?

587
00:48:18.560 --> 00:48:21.760
Because you know, there's going to be people thinking, well, I want to be a great DJ, but I just

588
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:28.000
can't find the motivation to spend every day three hours practicing Alex. Yeah, I believe you

589
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:36.240
probably won't be a good DJ. But I would be like, you like your current state enough that you

590
00:48:36.240 --> 00:48:40.560
like the pain of change thing or like, you're not enough pain. I've said that to plenty of people

591
00:48:40.560 --> 00:48:44.000
we go speak and someone's like, how do I get motivated? I'm like, you're not going to get motivated.

592
00:48:44.560 --> 00:48:48.160
Like, you have to hate for me. I'm like, I automatically go there. I'm like, you have to hate

593
00:48:48.160 --> 00:48:52.720
something. Like for me, I just hated my current existence. And so for me, that was powerful enough

594
00:48:52.720 --> 00:48:56.160
to get me out. There's going to be another way though. You know, I was thinking to you that

595
00:48:56.160 --> 00:49:01.920
moment we took the leap. You know, I feel I often feel like most people that listen to this podcast

596
00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:07.040
often are at a point in their life where they're considering a leap. Yeah. Feel like we drag,

597
00:49:07.040 --> 00:49:11.200
drag those type of people in. We kind of like we're a magnet to those people. So if they if they're

598
00:49:11.200 --> 00:49:16.240
in a situation that they don't like, but it's not that painful, you know, it's comfortable. Well,

599
00:49:16.240 --> 00:49:20.880
that's the worst. It's comfortable, but a little bit miserable. Yeah. How do you get them to take

600
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:26.000
the leap when it's so comfortable? My boss is promising me a promotion. I think about death

601
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:31.280
all the time. It's like, I'm going to die. And I think you have to agitate the pain for yourself.

602
00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:35.200
Like you have to stoke the pain. Like if you can't get through through, because like it would be

603
00:49:35.200 --> 00:49:39.840
it would be odd that you would be motivated by some weird passion, like not everyone's modes are

604
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:44.160
and just like, I love music and I've been I see in, you know, see numbers and colors, you know,

605
00:49:44.160 --> 00:49:48.640
whatever. Like some people are like that, but most people aren't. And so if you're not that,

606
00:49:48.640 --> 00:49:53.680
then you only start really liking stuff when you get good at it in my opinion. And you only

607
00:49:53.680 --> 00:49:59.760
get good at it by doing it a lot of times before you're good at it. And so if you this is why I'm

608
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:03.840
big big believer in this is that when you are starting out, I think you got to find the thing

609
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:08.320
that's the pain and like pain motivates significantly faster and stronger than pleasure does.

610
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:12.000
Like people were like, no, passions the right way. It's like point of gun at a family member.

611
00:50:12.080 --> 00:50:19.280
All of a sudden 10 out of 10 motivation pain. And so like, I think people should use their pain

612
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:24.960
more. And if they don't have enough pain, then one, maybe that's fine. And you're a dreamer. And

613
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:30.240
that's okay. But I will tell you that a word that I can I read in my like six month journey between

614
00:50:30.240 --> 00:50:34.640
when I wanted to quit and when I actually quit. There was this word that just like pissed me off.

615
00:50:34.640 --> 00:50:38.480
And it was this in the self-help or entrepreneur book. And it said there are entrepreneurs and

616
00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:43.280
there are entrepreneurs. And it was like, and it was like, entrepreneurs are people who read

617
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:47.520
these books and don't do anything about it. And I was just like, I don't want to be I was like,

618
00:50:47.520 --> 00:50:55.040
I am one of these right now. And I just it just like felt so powerless. And I think that my entire

619
00:50:55.040 --> 00:51:00.960
life has been a lot of trying to have power. And I mean, then the true sense of just being able

620
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:05.440
to direct influence and events. I've wanted to have more power to protect myself protect the people

621
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:10.560
like air about, et cetera. And I felt very powerless. And I think that I was in that

622
00:51:10.560 --> 00:51:14.960
comfortable like my dad approves of my current situation. I had a job that when I told people,

623
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:21.840
they're like, Oh, that's fancy. But I felt powerless. And I hated that more than anything. And so

624
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:26.160
I think I think if I want to say this to anyone who's listening, if there's anything you listen to,

625
00:51:27.520 --> 00:51:32.720
all the stuff that I described that was really tough that I went through was not as hard as me

626
00:51:32.720 --> 00:51:41.840
quitting my job. By far, the hardest decision of my entire life, bar none. Because the things that

627
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:47.280
I was actually caught up with were the opinions of other people, opinions of my father and the

628
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:50.240
opinions of the people that I went to school with who I thought would judge me for leaving this good

629
00:51:50.240 --> 00:51:55.840
job to probably become a failed gem owner. And how lame that would sound compared to consultant

630
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:03.680
going to Harvard, like I was going to go from peak white collar to a very blue collar, you know,

631
00:52:03.680 --> 00:52:11.360
profession making significantly less because I quote loved it. And like I'll say this again,

632
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:14.960
but like sometimes you have to let other people's dreams for your life die for years to live.

633
00:52:15.600 --> 00:52:21.520
And for me, it was like when I when I continued to every day not want to wake up, that was my wake-up

634
00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:25.920
call, where I was like, either I continue to live this way and not want to be alive,

635
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:33.440
or I just risked the fact that I'll died everybody else. And I think that that like it was the hardest

636
00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:38.560
decision of my entire life. By far, all the hard stuff that went through, still the hardest decision

637
00:52:38.560 --> 00:52:42.800
of my life. How much was money on your mind when you made that decision? The desire to be

638
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:47.920
financially free to the point where you had millions, it's weird money Caleb would know this.

639
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:53.040
Money doesn't really motivate me. I would say that I mean, I love the game for sure,

640
00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:01.680
but I love playing the game and the tokens are there. But for me, it was it was it was it was

641
00:53:01.680 --> 00:53:05.280
beat in my dead, you know, I mean, I didn't want him to be right. Like that's what it was.

642
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:09.520
Like I didn't want him to be right. I just I just I remember like I would I'd be sleeping on

643
00:53:09.520 --> 00:53:14.080
the floor. I'd be miserable at, you know, when I had my gym and I had no trainers, I was teaching

644
00:53:14.080 --> 00:53:17.360
all the classes. And so I'd I'd wake up, I'd do four, I have five, I'm six, I'm seven,

645
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:25.600
eight, I'm sessions. And then I would then work out for myself. And then I would do, I'd do all

646
00:53:25.600 --> 00:53:28.960
the marketing in the ads and the stuff that I have to do the middle day. And then I would teach the

647
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:32.800
four, the four PM, the five PM, the skipping, the seven PM. And then I would do sales consults,

648
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.920
eight, nine, 10, 11. And then I would do the billing for all the all the contracts from 11 to

649
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.880
like 12 to 12 30. And then I'd wake up again. And I did that for like six months. And like I started

650
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:49.120
to like lose my mind because I wasn't sleeping. But even during like those times, I just literally

651
00:53:49.120 --> 00:53:57.840
I would envision going back to Baltimore to my father and have and knowing that he would give

652
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:03.120
me the false modesty of like, I know you tried to worry about it. Now let's get you back on this

653
00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:09.280
thing. And I knew that from that moment on, he would own me. And I just couldn't I couldn't I couldn't

654
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:16.160
do it. I was like, I will do anything but go back to that. And for me, that was my I would do anything.

655
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:22.080
And so whatever that maybe you need to agitate some pain in your life, you know, to get out of

656
00:54:22.080 --> 00:54:28.800
your current circumstance. And just as a total side note, play it out. What if you just never do

657
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:36.480
anything? Is like maybe some people just need to stop dreaming? Maybe they need to accept their

658
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:41.280
current reality and actually enjoy it. Because there's a lot of people in their 70 and 80 and they

659
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:45.120
didn't do their dreams. And if they went back, like they didn't do anything, but that whole time

660
00:54:45.120 --> 00:54:50.320
they were dissatisfied because they didn't try. But what if they were just like, I have a good life.

661
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:54.480
I have a life who loves me. I've got some kids. I have a job that I, you know, like I don't mind it,

662
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:58.720
pace the bills. I mean, if you go back 500 years, it wasn't people were like, man, this is my passion.

663
00:54:58.720 --> 00:55:02.800
It's like, dude, I'm just rowing rowing a boat across a ferry. And that's what I do. And this

664
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:08.720
one my dad didn't his dad did like, this is how we eat. And so like we have these, these idealized

665
00:55:08.720 --> 00:55:12.640
versions of purpose that I think Instagram and all this stuff kind of make terrible. But like,

666
00:55:12.640 --> 00:55:17.760
I think there's a lot of honor and work period. And I think a lot of people fool themselves by

667
00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:21.760
thinking that what they do for some reason is not honorable. And I think a lot of it is like the

668
00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:27.440
internal versus external scorecard of like saying what I said earlier about like, I believe these

669
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:31.840
things to be true about the universe or like the world. But a lot of those are like, what do I

670
00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:36.800
believe about myself? Which is like, I can choose to do work in this way, which then I can derive

671
00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:42.560
joy from. So like if I'm traveling shit, I can choose to be like, I will be the best shit

672
00:55:42.560 --> 00:55:46.400
shoveler because I believe that I will figure out how to do this more efficiently. And I will,

673
00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:49.520
you know, I will, I will get better and I'll have calcies on my hands and I'll have a better back

674
00:55:49.520 --> 00:55:57.440
and whatever. But I will do this well. And I think you can find joy and work if you decide to do it well.

675
00:55:57.520 --> 00:56:03.360
So on one hand, if you are, if you are, if you're a dream causes so much pain,

676
00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:07.440
then you will quit what you're doing and do it. And if it doesn't cause you enough pain that you're

677
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.320
not pursuing it or that you don't, like if you don't feel like you're in a cage right now,

678
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:17.040
then maybe you're not in a cage. And maybe you just need to like the life you have. And that's cool too.