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Welcome back to the game today is a guest spot on David Pearl's podcast, how I write.

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And so this is a super deep dive on writing.

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And I would say probably about 30 to 40% of it's on copywriting.

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And so the book and the books that I've written the process, how I think through it, um,

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if you write for living in any way, so you write emails, you write blogs, you write books,

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you write webinars, you write video sales letters, you write Slack messages.

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If you write words, uh, then you might get value from this, uh, I weirdly, I'm not considered a

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writer, but it's the thing that I probably enjoy most in the world.

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And I actually got a full scholarship, uh, to college for writing.

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I decided not to take scholarship and go to Vanderbilt instead.

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But writing has been a part of my life for as long as I've had a brain in hand.

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I don't get to talk about it often.

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And I think you might find some value from it.

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Alex Ramosi has written two killer business books that together have sold more than one

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million copies and all that obsessive writing has gotten him to nine million followers

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across social media platforms.

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And this is the first interview he's ever done that's all about the writing process.

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One of the things that super distinguishes you is you just like go into a Hermosi cave every

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morning and you just write, write, write, so tell me about how you do that.

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I wake up and then I calfen me and then I put your plugs and headphones on.

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I close all the windows and I really only write on days that I know have at least like

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six hours or more uninterrupted, um, sometimes eight.

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Like I definitely suffer from my Xieger neck effect, which is open loop, right?

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The idea of like if you have something later on in the day, like it, it, it messes with me a little

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bit because I feel like I want to be able to lose myself in the writing and then like come up for

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air whenever I want to come up for air rather than think like I have to be done by this time

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so that I can prep for this meeting or take this call or do this thing.

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Um, and so I almost exclusively write on days where I have nothing on my whole calendar.

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And so I optimize a lot of my calendar around when I'm in a heavy writing season around not

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having anything at all on my own, on it.

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And then when you sit down to write and say at six a.m.

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Are you like, I want to write for six hours?

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These are the things I want to get done.

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I'm going to get to do list.

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How do you think about that?

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Man, I feel like I'm incredibly structured with the writing besides just like

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violent effort, but that's about it.

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Like I, I write what I write.

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Um, I've never had writers block in my life.

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I usually have a game plan of what I'm going to write.

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So like I would say from a writing process perspective,

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I outline a book with what the table of contents is first.

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I think we were talking about that before this started.

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Like the table contents, the hardest thing that I spend my time on.

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And once I have that, that's like basically the game plan.

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And so each of the chapters, I tend to have the same structure

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because I write the way I would like to read.

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And so I like to have some sort of narrative or story that kind of puts context

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to what I'm talking about.

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I also write obviously nonfiction.

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And so this just gives color to that.

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I give a very short description of what this thing is that I'm going to be talking about.

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And then usually plentiful examples.

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And then I will basically put all of my Alex notes.

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Basically is the end.

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And I pretty much stuck with that setup for all of the books that I've written.

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And I think that that setup has just gotten cleaner and clearer

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between the books.

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Because they fundamentally are like my notes

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brought to life in a book format.

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But the hardest part for me is usually picking what story I want to tell

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in each chapter that best embodies whatever the principle is

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or whatever the core message of the chapter is.

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And what visual framework I can tie to that,

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that kind of like melts everything together or like ties it all together in a really clear way.

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That's what I spend like, and I usually do words first.

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And I'll then put these highlighted caps marks where I'll say like a picture that looks like this.

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And then I'll move on.

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So I basically do words first.

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Then I'll go back through I'll keep cleaning words.

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And then I'll put rough doodles in.

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And then only at the very end,

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while I come in and put the final doodles.

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Because sometimes like my orders change and I'll put numbers in a doodle

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that if I move the paragraph right, I don't like have to redo it.

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But that's been my my overall process for writing.

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But I just I just write and I write as much as I can

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until I can't write anymore.

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Where I feel like my words per unit of time starts to like drop pretty precipitously.

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Tell me about those notes.

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Where did it come from?

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Is that like a note on your phone?

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Is that stuff that you've written in emails?

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I have so many books to write.

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Like right now, I have like 20 more books that I have outlined.

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My books are limited by my ability to promote and launch them.

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More than they're limited by my ability to write them.

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Because I have what I know what my other books would be.

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Like I already know what my next two books are going to be.

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And I write a lot of stuff down because I don't want to forget it.

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Like I have this this Excel sheet that has like 600 stories of my life.

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And when I go back through them, I'm like,

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I don't know what that happened.

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And it's like it's in some ways it's kind of scary.

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Because I'm like, man, this was my life.

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And I'm fairly remember and I have to like retrace the synapses to like go back into the experience.

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And I think that a great a great fear of mine is forgetting.

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And so I write to crystallize the memory, but also whatever the finding was.

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So I feel like if you can't remember the lesson, you might as well not have lived it and learned it.

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And so I spend a lot of time trying to crystallize the knowledge into like artifacts that.

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And I refer to my own stuff.

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Like I use my books for reference.

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I think there's an Indiana Jones quote that I like a lot.

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It's a it's Sean Connery.

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It says I think it's Indiana Jones three.

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And he says he says I wrote it down.

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So I wouldn't have to remember it.

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And because he's like, you don't remember it.

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He's like, that's why I wrote it down.

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But it's funny because people write things to remember things.

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But they also write them because they think they'll forget them.

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So it's just kind of this really interesting dichotomy of how writing serves people in different ways.

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Yeah. So then when you're writing your books, it seems like you're really good at crystallizing ideas

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in your head.

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So when you sit down to write leads or offers, how much fidelity do you feel like you had before you

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started the writing project versus how much of writing is a process of discovery for you?

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I'd say two thirds discovery one third getting the stuff that I already have out.

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Okay.

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Yeah. Like as I'm writing it, I'm like, I didn't think about that.

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I'm going to have to clarify that.

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And that's kind of like I feel like the most exciting part.

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That's the fun part is when I like encounter some apparent conflict between two ideas that I

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know are both true, but seem to be conflicting.

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Yeah.

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That's where like, all right, where's the nuance here under what context?

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Where's the through line for this that can create some framework that actually applies to everything?

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And so the two modes that I use for the frameworks or even the writing that I have in general

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is utility and validity.

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So is this true?

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And in how many situations is it true?

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And is it useful?

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And so for example, if I say sometimes things happen and sometimes things don't,

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incredibly valid, not very.

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Now on the flip side, a lot of like, at least in the nonfiction role,

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a lot of like sales and marketing lore, very useful, not valid.

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So I can prove a time when there's some sort of tip or trick that works maybe in this scenario,

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but not that scenario.

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And so trying to distill out like, what's the fundamental principle that applies to all scenarios is

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what makes that interesting for me?

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Like I have tons of anecdote and that's what creates some of the stories that are like in the books

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that I have.

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But I call it like, how do I break this?

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So I'm like, how do I break this model?

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How do I break this truism?

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And if I can't break it and I can't think of a way that I'm like, it's done, like it's good.

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Yeah, my challenge when I do that is I kind of fall in love with my ideas,

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especially after I've just written them.

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And so like if I'm 2 p.m.

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I did a learning writing session, I mean, it's like my mom,

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like you can't say anything bad about her.

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But like, it kind of takes time.

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And so I'm pretty dependent on other people to help break ideas.

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It doesn't sound like you have that same challenge though.

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I definitely rely on my editor, but I feel pretty strongly in saying that like,

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I have very little loyalty to my ideas.

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Like I'm very willing to be like, I guess this is probably not right.

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I'm absolutely married to the truth, zero about how we get there.

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Right.

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And I think that's at least how I approach this.

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So what do you do?

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You enter these intense writing seasons.

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And is that like a season of no type thing where it's like an official thing?

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So let everybody know.

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I'm going to be writing and I do say it's a season of no.

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So R.E.A. team knows that basically like,

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I'll probably cut my calendar down significantly

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and maximize for full three days.

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And typically during that season,

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I'll only have two days where I'll take meetings.

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And so I have five days a week that are completely empty.

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And one of those days will probably get hijacked,

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but I would say I'm pretty good about keeping that schedule.

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Because I also really like writing.

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Writing has definitely been a guilty pleasure.

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I love writing and it doesn't,

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it doesn't make the most monetary sense for me.

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But I really enjoy it.

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Like I was the VP of the school paper.

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I was the editor-in-chief of the literary magazine.

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When I was in high school, I got a full scholarship to Tufts for writing.

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When I was in high school, I didn't go to Vanderbilt, but like this.

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So like I really love writing.

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And I think that a big part of it is I love learning.

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And I feel like if I really want to understand something,

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I write a book about it.

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Yeah.

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And that's been the process.

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And so I love business.

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And so I love the components of business.

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And I come in with like my preconceived ideas.

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These are these anecdotal frameworks that I,

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when I have four, five, six, eight,

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ten frameworks that all of a sudden start

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have like a through line that I see them like,

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oh, there's a book here.

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But then when I dive in,

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it's sometimes, sometimes it goes great.

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And I'm like, wow, I was right.

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And then sometimes I'm like, oh my god, I was wrong.

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That's when it's like really going through the muck.

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Sometimes not as fun.

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But I want to like get to the other side

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and into the value of getting to the other side.

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Because that's where I feel like you get the most fulfillment.

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Where like this is true.

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Like you either talk to people one at one

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or you talk to people one to many.

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They're the people who know you.

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They're people are the not fight me.

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Right.

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I mean, it is valid and it's useful.

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I love the idea when you're writing.

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And you feel like you've just gotten X-ray vision

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on how reality works.

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It's like I've looked at a hundred sales letters.

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And I just saw like the core component

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that just went in all those.

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That for me, the line that people say sometimes

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is I don't like writing.

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I love having written.

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That's why I feel about the craft.

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It sounds like you enjoy the process a lot more though.

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I like both.

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I really do think I like both.

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I really enjoy writing.

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I do enjoy writing and I enjoy having written.

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Those moments where you have this like little mini breakthroughs

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wherever we call them, at least my editor

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and I would call them like fight me, fight me statements.

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Where it's like we say this thing.

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It's like, like that is true.

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Like there's nothing you can say about that.

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And when it's also useful,

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that's one that's like we create these

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at least as little monocursed to live by.

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Tell me about usefulness.

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You've mentioned this a lot.

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Usefulness, utility.

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How do you think through that?

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When someone uses this thing,

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because I write nonfiction, right?

242
00:11:48.800 --> 00:11:50.640
And so when someone uses this framework,

243
00:11:50.640 --> 00:11:51.760
this tool, this tactic,

244
00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:54.400
do they get the desire, do they get the desired outcome?

245
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.760
And so if it is valid,

246
00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:00.560
then it is true.

247
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.040
But if it's not useful to anyone,

248
00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:05.440
there's no context in which they would actually use it

249
00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.000
and it would materially change the decision-making process

250
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.640
or their behaviors in a way that would ameliorate

251
00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:12.160
or make their advice better.

252
00:12:12.160 --> 00:12:14.560
And so I, like the best framework,

253
00:12:14.560 --> 00:12:15.920
like the value equation,

254
00:12:15.920 --> 00:12:18.400
was probably the core framework of the office book,

255
00:12:18.400 --> 00:12:18.640
right?

256
00:12:18.640 --> 00:12:20.320
That's the, like that was the meat.

257
00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.720
That actually took like multiple years before I actually,

258
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:24.800
you know, crystallize that.

259
00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:30.080
But that framework is useful all the time

260
00:12:30.560 --> 00:12:31.280
everywhere.

261
00:12:31.280 --> 00:12:32.320
Like it's useful for ads,

262
00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:33.360
it's useful for sales letters,

263
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.800
it's useful for making offers,

264
00:12:34.800 --> 00:12:36.800
because fundamentally it's what do people want?

265
00:12:36.800 --> 00:12:37.280
Right.

266
00:12:37.280 --> 00:12:38.560
They want things that are fast,

267
00:12:38.560 --> 00:12:39.760
they want things that are easy,

268
00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:41.120
and they want things that are risk-free.

269
00:12:42.160 --> 00:12:43.760
And if you try to find another component,

270
00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:46.160
that's not one of those variables.

271
00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:48.720
It's like it probably is one of those variables.

272
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:49.920
I have yet to see,

273
00:12:49.920 --> 00:12:50.800
and maybe we'll see it later.

274
00:12:51.520 --> 00:12:53.440
But I've seen many people

275
00:12:54.400 --> 00:12:57.120
republish the value equation either as their own

276
00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.280
or they like change the icons,

277
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:01.440
but like no one has changed the forward.

278
00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:03.040
Like they are the forward.

279
00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:06.320
And so I see that as like it is valid.

280
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.800
Now when I see like I think bad framework,

281
00:13:08.800 --> 00:13:09.840
so you can make a framework or anything,

282
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:10.480
you put a triangle,

283
00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:11.840
you put three things on it's framework, right?

284
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:12.160
Yeah.

285
00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:13.280
But that's not like good framework,

286
00:13:13.280 --> 00:13:14.560
because I can break it pretty easily.

287
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.840
If I see lots of people starting to morph things around,

288
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.320
then it means that it's not correct, right?

289
00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.080
Whereas the value equation has like stood the test of time,

290
00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.080
at least for at least only a few years.

291
00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:27.600
Do you know the concept of Misi?

292
00:13:28.400 --> 00:13:30.160
So this is, they use this a lot at

293
00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:33.280
McKinsey and the different companies like that.

294
00:13:33.280 --> 00:13:36.480
So it's mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive.

295
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.040
So an example would be,

296
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.440
we're struggling with our content strategy for the business.

297
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.800
All right, well we got three options.

298
00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:47.280
We can do more, we can do better,

299
00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:48.400
and we can do different.

300
00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:50.800
But actually there's no kind of content,

301
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:53.600
improvement plan that isn't part of those things.

302
00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:57.120
And every single thing would slot into one of those buckets.

303
00:13:57.280 --> 00:14:01.520
So when they teach people to break down problems and stuff,

304
00:14:01.520 --> 00:14:03.200
they'll use the word Misi,

305
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.200
and then that's how they think about it.

306
00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:06.800
So it can hit all the options,

307
00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:09.280
but also all the options are different from each other.

308
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:11.120
Oh, hard to agree.

309
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.360
And that's 100% how I think about it.

310
00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:14.640
I can't think of something.

311
00:14:14.640 --> 00:14:16.160
That's where I think it's breaking the model.

312
00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:18.640
Like if I can think of an example that doesn't fit in this,

313
00:14:18.640 --> 00:14:19.840
the model's wrong.

314
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:21.440
And I just keep doing it until I get those,

315
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.120
I mean, more better news or better different,

316
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:25.840
is a great moniker that I use a lot,

317
00:14:25.920 --> 00:14:26.720
just in business too.

318
00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:29.520
But it's like are there,

319
00:14:29.520 --> 00:14:31.920
are there other of those in different sub-segments

320
00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:34.800
or sub-categories that don't exist or that people aren't using?

321
00:14:34.800 --> 00:14:37.520
And that's, that's what I enjoy trying to discover.

322
00:14:37.520 --> 00:14:40.400
Let's do this. Take a hundred million dollars in leads.

323
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.800
And I want to walk through how you think about book marketing.

324
00:14:44.800 --> 00:14:46.480
So let's just focus on the cover.

325
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:46.880
Okay.

326
00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:48.640
And then just show it to the camera.

327
00:14:48.640 --> 00:14:51.120
And what I want to hear is as you talk through it,

328
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.080
how did you think about leads,

329
00:14:54.880 --> 00:14:57.040
the icon, the subtitle,

330
00:14:57.040 --> 00:14:59.120
and then we'll talk about the back of the book after.

331
00:14:59.120 --> 00:14:59.840
Okay.

332
00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:02.640
So the cover, I basically had to make the decision.

333
00:15:02.640 --> 00:15:04.000
So this is the first book.

334
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:05.760
I was like, am I going to do something totally different

335
00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:08.320
or am I going to just basically make this into a series?

336
00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.080
So immediately what we see is,

337
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:11.760
a hundred million dollars the same.

338
00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:13.760
You took out the testimonial,

339
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:15.440
that's what I see.

340
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:15.760
Yeah.

341
00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:19.680
And so I just went with another color.

342
00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:21.280
There was really no rhyme or reason for blue.

343
00:15:21.280 --> 00:15:22.480
I was like, blue sounds fine.

344
00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:22.880
Yeah.

345
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:24.480
Oh.

346
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:27.440
In terms of the icon,

347
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.640
I'm pretty sure I wanted to do a magnet.

348
00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:31.920
I just kind of was like,

349
00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:33.280
you want to attract leads.

350
00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:34.320
And I couldn't think of it.

351
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.080
It was either going to be fishing or a magnet.

352
00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:37.440
I think I saw somewhere that you

353
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.120
maybe tested the heck out of them.

354
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.280
Yes.

355
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:41.760
So I bet tested the heck out of this.

356
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:45.600
I maybe tested probably like three or four of the image

357
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:46.960
of different, basically different,

358
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:49.440
different magnet variations.

359
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.680
But the word leads, I tested the hell out of.

360
00:15:53.680 --> 00:15:56.000
And so I had a hundred billion dollar promotion,

361
00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:57.040
a hundred billion dollar advertising,

362
00:15:57.040 --> 00:15:58.240
a hundred billion dollar leads,

363
00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:59.600
a hundred billion dollar marketing,

364
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.720
and leads was the one that won.

365
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:04.720
And so I was like, okay,

366
00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.480
if leads is kind of interesting though,

367
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.040
because leads is the output of the advertising.

368
00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:11.120
And so if no one wants to advertise,

369
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:11.840
people want leads.

370
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:12.800
Huh.

371
00:16:12.800 --> 00:16:14.240
I mean, that's that's Alex's conclusion.

372
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:14.800
I could be wrong.

373
00:16:14.800 --> 00:16:15.440
I haven't tested it.

374
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:16.240
But like,

375
00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:17.600
but if someone said,

376
00:16:17.760 --> 00:16:19.520
why do you think that that would have been my,

377
00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:20.320
that would have been my answer.

378
00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:23.040
And so I tested it because what's really interesting,

379
00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:25.280
I mean, to be fair, it's like kind of the contents of the book,

380
00:16:26.400 --> 00:16:28.960
is people do judge the book by its cover.

381
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:29.680
Of course.

382
00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:32.160
And if you're going to go through all the work

383
00:16:32.160 --> 00:16:33.120
of writing the book,

384
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.200
which is significantly harder than testing the cover

385
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:35.760
in the title,

386
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:38.960
like, do that.

387
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:40.320
Right.

388
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:40.800
You know what I mean?

389
00:16:40.800 --> 00:16:42.000
And I think the first time I heard about this,

390
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:46.320
I think Tim Ferriss tested for our work week

391
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.080
for his book and he hated the title,

392
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.880
but it crushed all the other titles.

393
00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:51.840
And so he, because he's like,

394
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:53.440
I don't even really believe in like,

395
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:54.640
just only working for ours week,

396
00:16:54.640 --> 00:16:55.840
but it just, it murdered.

397
00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:57.200
And so that's what the book came

398
00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:58.480
and obviously became that sort.

399
00:16:58.480 --> 00:16:59.200
And I read this,

400
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:01.840
there was this like white paper

401
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:03.840
that was released by this publishing company

402
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:05.680
or that helped self-publishers.

403
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.640
And they talk about this dating help book

404
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.480
that sold like no copies.

405
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:11.280
And this,

406
00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:11.680
okay, yeah.

407
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.840
And then all they did was they changed the cover

408
00:17:13.840 --> 00:17:15.280
and they changed the headline or the,

409
00:17:15.360 --> 00:17:16.400
you know, the title of the book

410
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:18.720
and they became like an international bestseller.

411
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.160
And when I saw that, I was like,

412
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:21.680
all right, this is important.

413
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.480
I should take the time to actually like make sure.

414
00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:26.000
Now, but big picture,

415
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.880
that was basically how I picked the headline

416
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:29.920
and then the image.

417
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:30.800
And then the subhead,

418
00:17:30.800 --> 00:17:32.720
I also tested a ton, too,

419
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:34.720
which is how to get strangers to want to buy your stuff.

420
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:36.240
And how do you test that when you say,

421
00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:39.600
this, what I would assume is I go to Google and Facebook

422
00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:41.440
and I see what drives the most traffic,

423
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:42.960
but how do you test the subtitles?

424
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:43.440
I can tell you.

425
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.360
I have the actual tests here.

426
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:47.200
So it's like, okay,

427
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.200
I had the realistic versus the cartoon version.

428
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.240
So I tested that out.

429
00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:51.440
And so the real one did better.

430
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.200
It also was a one with the real image out of the first one.

431
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:54.160
So I was like, okay, that's good.

432
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:56.880
Advertising crushed promotion.

433
00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:58.720
So I was like, okay, advertising is the winner.

434
00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.360
And then I did advertising versus leads.

435
00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:02.400
Then leads was the winner.

436
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.920
Then I did leads versus marketing.

437
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:05.520
Now that one was really close,

438
00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:06.480
but leads still want.

439
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:07.600
So that's why I ended up doing leads.

440
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:09.520
In terms of subheads,

441
00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:10.240
I only showed two.

442
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.400
The test here by ended up doing like probably five or six.

443
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.600
How to get more people to want to buy your stuff.

444
00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:17.520
How to get strangers to want to buy your stuff.

445
00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:19.840
So strangers narrowly beat out more people.

446
00:18:19.840 --> 00:18:23.120
Now this is the one that I thought was the most interesting test of the whole thing.

447
00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:26.160
So how to get more strangers to want to buy your stuff.

448
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.000
How to get strangers to want to buy your stuff.

449
00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:33.040
71% to 29% like just one word.

450
00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:36.480
And so what I saw it's like, it's so sensitive.

451
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.920
And I just I just come in with like no ego about what I think it's going to be.

452
00:18:40.560 --> 00:18:42.160
And even because some people are also like,

453
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:43.680
Hey, you should do a shorter version.

454
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.160
So just get strangers to want to buy your stuff.

455
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:48.720
Versus how to get strangers to want to buy your stuff.

456
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.120
70 to 30 with how to in front.

457
00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:51.760
Right.

458
00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:54.480
And so even work decision wasn't necessarily

459
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.960
the thing that people are kind of like optimized for.

460
00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:57.520
Right.

461
00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:00.640
And so anyways, yeah, I tested that the how the title,

462
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.280
the image and the subhead.

463
00:19:03.280 --> 00:19:04.720
Because fundamentally,

464
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.040
anybody who's in my audience who has read the first book,

465
00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:09.040
they have a high likelihood of buying the second book if they got that

466
00:19:09.040 --> 00:19:10.080
you from the first one.

467
00:19:10.080 --> 00:19:11.520
I'm not making that for them.

468
00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:12.880
I could just call this book too.

469
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.840
And they probably would have been willing to at least take a shot on it.

470
00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:18.240
I have to make this for all the people who don't know who I am.

471
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.200
And I have to optimize for that one split second decision where they're like,

472
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.080
it's like, you know, actually, it sounds pretty good.

473
00:19:24.560 --> 00:19:25.280
And it's clear.

474
00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:26.560
Like, what is this book do?

475
00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:28.080
Get strangers to want to buy your stuff.

476
00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:29.520
Okay, what's the output of that leads?

477
00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:30.400
Okay, this makes sense.

478
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.440
I need leads.

479
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.360
So I'll buy this book on how to get strangers to want to buy this.

480
00:19:33.360 --> 00:19:33.520
Right.

481
00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:34.960
Back cover.

482
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.000
Talk to him about that.

483
00:19:36.080 --> 00:19:37.600
So this is like my little mini sales letter.

484
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:40.960
So I just wrote this is like kind of like blind bullets

485
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.280
of the stuff inside of the book.

486
00:19:43.280 --> 00:19:45.200
And so I basically just took the chapters and tried to

487
00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:49.840
translate it into a bullet that doesn't say what it is,

488
00:19:49.840 --> 00:19:51.280
but gives kind of like the benefit of it.

489
00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:53.760
But hold on, when you say this is my mini sales letter,

490
00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:56.880
that is like Uber, her mosey brain going to that.

491
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.040
So what matters in a sales letter?

492
00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:02.320
So you can get 2x, 10x or 100x more leads,

493
00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:04.320
and you currently are without changing anything about what you sell.

494
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:07.440
That I think is fairly compelling promise.

495
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.000
And so then it's like, okay, I want to learn more about that.

496
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.680
Now the next kind of like bigger fun is I wrote this book to solve your leads problem.

497
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.680
And if you talk to small business owners,

498
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.840
the largest reason that people will say,

499
00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:19.200
if you look at like the small business surveys,

500
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:20.000
why they go out of business,

501
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.600
they say lack of lack of lethal,

502
00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:23.280
lack of marketing, lack of new business, whatever.

503
00:20:23.280 --> 00:20:25.280
Second is running out of money, but I see that is.

504
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:26.880
Lack of leads.

505
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:27.840
Right.

506
00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:29.360
It should get you a chicken egg.

507
00:20:29.360 --> 00:20:31.520
And so then I put a little bit of proof.

508
00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:33.840
So it's like today our company generate 20,000 new weeks per day

509
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.400
across 16 different companies are starting 16 different industries.

510
00:20:37.120 --> 00:20:39.520
And they do it using eight never go hungry playbooks inside.

511
00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:41.040
Once you see them, you can't unsee them.

512
00:20:41.040 --> 00:20:42.880
They're so powerful they work without your permission.

513
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:44.800
Right. So like once you once you use it like,

514
00:20:44.800 --> 00:20:46.880
you don't you don't have to believe it's going to work.

515
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:47.840
It just works better.

516
00:20:47.840 --> 00:20:48.640
Period.

517
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.040
And so you know the easiest way to get another five customers tomorrow.

518
00:20:51.040 --> 00:20:52.000
So that's war marriage.

519
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:52.800
That's the first,

520
00:20:52.800 --> 00:20:54.000
the first of the core four.

521
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.200
So it's the benefit of the core four.

522
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.160
That's war marriage.

523
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:57.920
It's the how you get first stock customers.

524
00:20:58.640 --> 00:20:59.680
The hook retain reward system.

525
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:00.480
So that's content.

526
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:02.160
So that's the second chapter.

527
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.920
And so I just talk about the media as part of it for the six part ad framework

528
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:08.160
that gets more people, especially strangers to want what you sell.

529
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.440
That's going to be the paid ads chapter.

530
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.080
And so I just took the chapters and turned them into the benefits of the chapter.

531
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:14.640
Those are super specific.

532
00:21:15.120 --> 00:21:16.720
You mean that's what strikes the bullets?

533
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:17.360
Yeah, right?

534
00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:19.520
Because if I look at these bullets, right?

535
00:21:19.520 --> 00:21:21.920
The six part ad framework that gets more people,

536
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:24.960
especially strangers, to want what you sell.

537
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.040
How to get people to want what you sell would be like,

538
00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:30.160
but you're like, there's actually a lot of things going on.

539
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.920
Six part ad framework, the specificity leads to credibility there.

540
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:37.440
More people, especially strangers, to me that nuance is like,

541
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.880
yo, I've thought about this.

542
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:40.720
I know how you think well.

543
00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:43.840
And these are just very concrete.

544
00:21:45.360 --> 00:21:48.080
Yes, so that's why I thought about the front of the back of the book.

545
00:21:48.080 --> 00:21:48.480
I like it.

546
00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:54.800
How is your writing different for when you're writing for books like that versus video?

547
00:21:54.800 --> 00:21:57.040
And what comes first, the books lead to the videos,

548
00:21:57.040 --> 00:21:58.240
the videos lead to the books?

549
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.200
How do you think about that?

550
00:21:59.360 --> 00:22:00.240
Totally more process.

551
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.800
Yeah.

552
00:22:00.800 --> 00:22:05.760
So, namely because of the volume that has to go out,

553
00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:08.160
if I'm on camera, I'm not very scripted.

554
00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:11.200
It's more like these are bullets that, you know,

555
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:13.440
we'll probably make sure that we nailed the introduction,

556
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.320
because that's very important.

557
00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:16.560
So, nailing the introduction,

558
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:20.480
nailing with the roadmap is for the movie for the video.

559
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.800
And then like, it's almost like, I'd say this,

560
00:22:22.800 --> 00:22:26.560
the YouTube videos are far closer to what my writing outlines look like

561
00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:27.840
than my final product.

562
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:31.040
Because if I were to write the YouTube videos as they were writing the book,

563
00:22:31.040 --> 00:22:36.000
it would take me probably a week of sure of five days,

564
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:39.200
five full days to write just the video, to make it,

565
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.960
to air, you know, airtight air seal all the words,

566
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:49.520
but we can do, you know, a writing outline in like 30 minutes or an hour,

567
00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:50.960
you know, for a video.

568
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.120
And that's much more mandatory given like,

569
00:22:53.120 --> 00:22:54.560
I actually do other stuff for a living.

570
00:22:54.560 --> 00:22:55.840
How do you think about those hooks?

571
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:01.120
Real quick, guys, I have a special, special gift for you

572
00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:03.280
for being loyal listeners of the podcast.

573
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.360
Layla and I spent probably an entire quarter putting together

574
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:09.360
our scaling roadmap.

575
00:23:09.360 --> 00:23:11.920
It's breaking scaling into 10 stages

576
00:23:12.560 --> 00:23:14.960
and across all eight functions of the business.

577
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:16.320
So you've got marketing, you've got sales,

578
00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:18.080
you've got product, you got customer success,

579
00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:19.840
you've got IT, you've got recruiting,

580
00:23:19.840 --> 00:23:21.360
you've got HR, you've got finance.

581
00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:24.000
And we show the problems that emerged at every level of scale

582
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.520
and how to graduate to the next level.

583
00:23:25.600 --> 00:23:29.040
It's all free and you can get it personalized to you.

584
00:23:29.040 --> 00:23:31.600
So it's about 30-ish pages for each of the stages.

585
00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:32.640
Once you answer the questions,

586
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.640
it will tell you exactly where you're at

587
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:36.640
and what you need to do to grow.

588
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.560
It's about 14 hours of stuff,

589
00:23:38.560 --> 00:23:41.040
but it's narrowed down so that you only have to watch the part

590
00:23:41.040 --> 00:23:42.880
that's relevant to you, which will probably be about 90 minutes.

591
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:44.880
And so if that's at all interesting,

592
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.920
you can go to acquisition.com forward slash roadmap,

593
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:49.920
R-O-A-D map, roadmap.

594
00:23:50.560 --> 00:23:55.760
So we will look at other industries

595
00:23:55.760 --> 00:23:58.240
that have higher performing videos typically

596
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:00.800
and look at packaging that seems to have performed well.

597
00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:02.560
Let me say, is there a business version of this

598
00:24:02.560 --> 00:24:03.760
that we could do?

599
00:24:03.760 --> 00:24:04.960
So what's an example of that?

600
00:24:05.760 --> 00:24:07.280
There's this one where this girl said,

601
00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:11.520
like, my system,

602
00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:14.720
so that you can out-learn anyone or something like that.

603
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:15.760
And I think we made a version of that

604
00:24:15.760 --> 00:24:17.760
and was like, how you can out-work anyone.

605
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:20.160
And I think that's what we ended up doing for the video.

606
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.400
So then as you think about the interactions,

607
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.280
the hooks, the fraying for the videos, what matters?

608
00:24:25.280 --> 00:24:27.040
Because it's interesting, you basically said,

609
00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:30.320
I'm pretty unscripted, except for the very beginning,

610
00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:32.000
which a lot of work goes into.

611
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.040
Kind of like the book.

612
00:24:33.040 --> 00:24:34.880
What's that the book is very scripted all the way through?

613
00:24:35.760 --> 00:24:38.640
But like, the 80-20 on the effort of,

614
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:39.680
like, where's the biggest?

615
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:41.200
The biggest bang for the buck is always going to be,

616
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:44.400
it's, you know, hook-packaging title thumbnail,

617
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:45.920
first, you know, 30-60 seconds.

618
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.480
It's going to be where you have probably the biggest leverage

619
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:50.320
on performance for a video.

620
00:24:50.320 --> 00:24:51.520
And this is just something we learned.

621
00:24:52.560 --> 00:24:54.640
Obviously, average view duration long-term

622
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.080
is going to be something that lifts the video,

623
00:24:56.080 --> 00:24:57.280
but right out the gate,

624
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:01.360
it's hard not impossible to overcome a video that's just tanky.

625
00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:01.840
Yeah.

626
00:25:01.840 --> 00:25:04.000
We want to make stuff that people want to consume.

627
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:04.880
And so I think that like,

628
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:07.600
solving for making sure they want to consume it

629
00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:10.160
is the title and the packaging and the introduction.

630
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:12.000
And we have to just solve for congrats.

631
00:25:12.800 --> 00:25:14.400
Like, is the thing they clicked on,

632
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:15.680
the thing that they're going to get

633
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:17.920
and making sure that they feel like they're going to get it?

634
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:20.000
Like, that that promise is going to get delivered on.

635
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:22.000
And how do you think about

636
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:24.720
when you're delivering a story,

637
00:25:25.280 --> 00:25:28.240
how that is different in video versus writing?

638
00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:30.240
I actually feel like my stories in video

639
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:32.720
are pretty, are pretty comparable to my stories in writing.

640
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:34.240
Yeah, because I think I have a pretty cool,

641
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:37.440
wheel kind of tone that I use in the stories in writing.

642
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.520
And I, my writing more mirrors how I talk

643
00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:40.800
when it comes to stories.

644
00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:42.160
Right.

645
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.920
Yeah. So if you're I am in the middle of nowhere,

646
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:45.760
right? Like, you know, like, and a guy pulls a gun.

647
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:47.760
Stephen King.

648
00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:49.120
Like, if you're not sure what to do with the story,

649
00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:50.160
just bring in a guy with a gun.

650
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.200
Right. Yeah.

651
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:52.960
Same, same kind of idea.

652
00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:55.840
But I just, I tell it like I would be telling it to a friend.

653
00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:57.680
There are probably different styles of writing.

654
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.280
I assume you would know this, but I do.

655
00:25:59.280 --> 00:26:03.440
But I tend to try and get everything out as fast as I can.

656
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:04.240
Yeah.

657
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.600
And then I kind of look at it as like coats of paint.

658
00:26:07.600 --> 00:26:08.720
And that's the description.

659
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:08.960
I don't like it.

660
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:10.560
It's just like, I let breathe.

661
00:26:10.560 --> 00:26:11.360
Then it comes back to it.

662
00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:12.080
And then I do another coat.

663
00:26:12.080 --> 00:26:12.800
Then I do another coat.

664
00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:16.080
And for me, most of the kind of coats of paint,

665
00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:18.320
I'd say the vast majority of my editing

666
00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:22.160
that's not socialized is me crunching.

667
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:23.200
There's crunching things down,

668
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:23.680
crunching things down,

669
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:24.320
crunching things down.

670
00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:25.520
How can I use fewer or technical use

671
00:26:25.520 --> 00:26:26.800
simpler words, technical use fewer or technical use

672
00:26:26.800 --> 00:26:27.680
simpler words?

673
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.840
And I keep doing that until I feel like

674
00:26:29.840 --> 00:26:31.280
anything else that I would remove

675
00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:34.640
would materially detract from the substance of the book.

676
00:26:35.840 --> 00:26:38.560
Once I do that and the that process right there

677
00:26:38.560 --> 00:26:40.880
is usually like 10 drives.

678
00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:45.600
So I do a lot, a lot of drafts.

679
00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:47.280
You did 19, for at least.

680
00:26:47.280 --> 00:26:49.840
Yeah, and these weeks was on the way to the farm.

681
00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:51.200
And I basically started from scratch

682
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:52.320
at about half ways of those.

683
00:26:53.120 --> 00:26:55.600
So like, I think it was, I think it was draft 12.

684
00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:56.560
I feel like I've remembered it.

685
00:26:56.560 --> 00:26:58.720
It was like draft 12 was like, I was like, I'm done.

686
00:26:58.720 --> 00:26:59.600
Like, this is it.

687
00:26:59.600 --> 00:27:00.800
This is this book's awesome.

688
00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:03.920
And then that's when I socialized with like

689
00:27:04.800 --> 00:27:05.760
10 or so readers.

690
00:27:05.760 --> 00:27:08.000
It was like, okay, let me know what you guys think.

691
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:10.960
And the feedback that I got, I was like,

692
00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:13.840
I have to rewrite the book.

693
00:27:15.280 --> 00:27:16.400
And so I rewrote the book.

694
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:23.520
But most of the time, the editing from the socialized post

695
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:29.200
is I actually used Stephen King's kind of like method there,

696
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:31.600
which is if people have like little tidbits,

697
00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:34.000
I'll usually clarify those pieces at this end.

698
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:34.560
That's easy.

699
00:27:35.280 --> 00:27:37.200
If I have many people who have

700
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:38.720
different comments about one section,

701
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:41.280
their comments usually don't matter.

702
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.600
It's more that there's something wrong with this section.

703
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.440
And so in the third book that's coming out,

704
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:50.320
there were like two chapters that were short

705
00:27:50.320 --> 00:27:51.440
that I put at the beginning,

706
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.680
which is, you know, prime territory in terms of,

707
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:54.800
you know, people falling off of it.

708
00:27:54.800 --> 00:27:55.520
So I'm superstitious.

709
00:27:55.520 --> 00:27:57.200
It's a front end feedback.

710
00:27:58.080 --> 00:28:01.760
And there's just like every reader had something to say

711
00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:02.720
about this chapter.

712
00:28:03.520 --> 00:28:06.240
And I just cut the chapter entirely.

713
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:07.920
And then just like edited the book

714
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.480
to not reference the material in that chapter.

715
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:13.280
And I thought of the chapter as a pretty core chapter to the book.

716
00:28:14.080 --> 00:28:15.120
And so then I was like, okay,

717
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.000
how can this book exist without this chapter?

718
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.320
And I ended up being able to do it

719
00:28:20.320 --> 00:28:22.720
by literally just doing control R, control F

720
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.920
for a word that I basically hard-cordified

721
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:27.600
as this is one of the core concepts.

722
00:28:27.600 --> 00:28:30.480
And I was like, I just will fully explain it every time

723
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:31.600
I have it throughout the book.

724
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:33.760
And as soon as I cut,

725
00:28:34.560 --> 00:28:37.280
it was, it was actually, I think it was three chapters, one section.

726
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:41.600
It was like the book was just, it's like reading downhill.

727
00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:42.800
Yeah, I mean, it's just like you just,

728
00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:44.480
you just keep rolling totally.

729
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.480
And that's kind of how I say it.

730
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:47.760
So little things, I'll just,

731
00:28:47.760 --> 00:28:49.520
if I agree with them or quick fix,

732
00:28:49.520 --> 00:28:51.120
if I don't agree, I'll just ignore.

733
00:28:51.120 --> 00:28:53.440
But if many people come in one section,

734
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.720
I'll strongly consider deleting it entirely.

735
00:28:57.760 --> 00:28:59.280
Or I have to just delete,

736
00:28:59.280 --> 00:29:00.560
while delete all things and rewrite it,

737
00:29:00.560 --> 00:29:01.760
or I'll just delete it entirely.

738
00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:03.600
Most times I'll just delete it, if I can.

739
00:29:03.600 --> 00:29:05.760
And then when you say the pain is the pitch,

740
00:29:05.760 --> 00:29:08.320
I mean, I understand what that means conceptually.

741
00:29:08.320 --> 00:29:11.200
But tactically, when you're sitting down to write copy,

742
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:12.480
you're working with a business

743
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:14.800
and you're trying to get more leads or something like that,

744
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:17.680
what do you do with that sentence?

745
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:21.520
So you fundamentally have two methods of persuasion, right?

746
00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:24.080
You could go forward, I can go into that.

747
00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:25.680
But like, you have more good stuff,

748
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.480
less bad stuff, fundamentally.

749
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:29.680
So you've got promise, you've got pain.

750
00:29:30.320 --> 00:29:31.920
These are your two weapons, right?

751
00:29:33.040 --> 00:29:38.720
And so my goal is to highlight both of those.

752
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:40.640
Now, from a selling perspective,

753
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.040
you make an offer at the point of greatest deprivation,

754
00:29:43.040 --> 00:29:44.480
not at the point of greatest satisfaction.

755
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.080
And so, for example, let's say you're incredibly hungry.

756
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.640
And you come to my steakhouse,

757
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:51.760
and I say, do you want a steak?

758
00:29:51.760 --> 00:29:53.600
And you say, yeah, so you have a steak.

759
00:29:53.600 --> 00:29:54.960
And after you had the steak, I'm like, how was it?

760
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:56.240
And you're like, oh my god, it was amazing.

761
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:56.880
Thank you so much.

762
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.640
And I say, awesome, do you want another steak?

763
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.720
And you'd be like, no, I'm good.

764
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:01.760
And I'd be like, what, you didn't like the steak?

765
00:30:01.760 --> 00:30:03.040
And you're like, no, I'd like the steak.

766
00:30:03.040 --> 00:30:04.240
I'm good.

767
00:30:04.800 --> 00:30:05.760
And that's because I'm trying to sell

768
00:30:05.760 --> 00:30:07.280
at the point of greatest satisfaction,

769
00:30:07.280 --> 00:30:09.840
not at the greatest point of greatest pain.

770
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:13.440
Whereas if you walk in the second time,

771
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.120
a week later, and you're starving,

772
00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:17.440
and you walk in, I say, hey, you're really hungry?

773
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:19.360
And you're like, yeah, and you're like, what, two steaks?

774
00:30:19.360 --> 00:30:21.600
You might be like, yeah, two steaks hungry.

775
00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:22.320
Right?

776
00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:24.320
And then you buy more.

777
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:27.040
And so we sell the point of greatest pain,

778
00:30:27.040 --> 00:30:28.480
not the point of greatest satisfaction.

779
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:30.160
Now, the caveat to this is people are like, wait,

780
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:31.920
you should sell when you provide value.

781
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:34.800
Only when the value that you deliver

782
00:30:34.800 --> 00:30:37.360
creates a new problem that you can then solve.

783
00:30:37.360 --> 00:30:40.480
And so, for example, if you are a marketing agency,

784
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.840
whatever, and you help a customer get a whole bunch of leads,

785
00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:45.040
all right?

786
00:30:45.040 --> 00:30:47.040
You, once you solve their leads problem,

787
00:30:47.040 --> 00:30:48.400
if you say, hey, you won't even more leads,

788
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:49.760
they're like, no, I can't even handle them.

789
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.800
So at that point, you solve the first problem,

790
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:54.720
but now they need somebody to help them work the leads.

791
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:56.400
They're now hungry for dessert, right?

792
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.880
Or whatever.

793
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.960
So they have a new deprivation that we can then sell the next day.

794
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:00.560
And so I see that as a big mistake

795
00:31:00.560 --> 00:31:02.960
from a copiering perspective is actually the timing

796
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:06.160
of when the copy is being delivered in the larger context

797
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:08.800
rather than the subcontext of the prospect.

798
00:31:08.800 --> 00:31:10.720
And so when I'm thinking about the pain as the pitch

799
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.160
to bring this full circle, is I want to think about

800
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:18.400
as many very concrete examples

801
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.280
that someone would experience pain.

802
00:31:21.280 --> 00:31:23.760
And so I remember when I was,

803
00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:25.520
so when Layla and I were really poor,

804
00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:27.600
and I just lost everything,

805
00:31:27.600 --> 00:31:30.640
and we decided that we were going to actually do the gym

806
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:31.280
business anymore.

807
00:31:31.280 --> 00:31:33.600
So there's this like, you know, 30-day period

808
00:31:33.600 --> 00:31:35.680
where we decided we're not going to do the gym fit.

809
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:38.880
And so I said, okay, she had lost 100 pounds

810
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:40.400
and then to fit this competition and all that stuff.

811
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:43.680
And I was like, all right, I'm going to write a sales page

812
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:46.160
of your story, because my story is in compelling.

813
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:47.760
I've had a six-pack of whole life, no one cares.

814
00:31:47.760 --> 00:31:49.760
And so, but her, she had all this weight loss wearer.

815
00:31:49.760 --> 00:31:51.840
And so I wrote her life story.

816
00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:53.800
And she was like, this is more compelling

817
00:31:53.800 --> 00:31:57.520
and I'm the one who lived it, and I didn't live any of it.

818
00:31:57.520 --> 00:32:00.200
But I just thought about like how she would wear a cover off

819
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:01.200
when she would go to the beach

820
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.960
and she would get chafing between her thighs

821
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:04.240
when she was walking all the way.

822
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.320
She was overweight back to that specificity

823
00:32:06.320 --> 00:32:07.760
and not wanting to be in pictures

824
00:32:07.760 --> 00:32:09.960
and just be always in the second row or to the side

825
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:11.840
because she didn't like having a picture take it.

826
00:32:11.840 --> 00:32:14.400
And I'm like, how many of these moments, right?

827
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:16.360
And so like pain happens in moments.

828
00:32:16.360 --> 00:32:18.400
And so it's, I want to capture the moment

829
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.760
because anyone who's had that pain

830
00:32:20.760 --> 00:32:21.800
is like, I never want to live that.

831
00:32:21.800 --> 00:32:23.640
I would never want to have that happen again.

832
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:28.640
I think that if you can accurately describe a prospect's pain

833
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.440
in their own language, in their own experiences,

834
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:36.760
you can persuade them to buy whatever your product is

835
00:32:36.760 --> 00:32:39.960
based on how well and how knowledgeable

836
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.640
they believe you to be as a function

837
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.400
of how specific you were about the pain they're experiencing.

838
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.320
And so if I, if I'm talking to you

839
00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:48.640
a business owner that's doing $10 million a year

840
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:51.200
and I'm like, this is what's going wrong in IT, right?

841
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.920
And this is what's going wrong in sales

842
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:54.680
and this is what's going wrong in your marketing

843
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:55.840
and this is what's going on in it.

844
00:32:55.840 --> 00:32:57.960
They're like, okay, I get it, you know where I'm at.

845
00:32:57.960 --> 00:32:59.840
I'm like, right, do you want my help?

846
00:32:59.840 --> 00:33:01.840
I don't have to make a promise.

847
00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:04.240
If I can describe the pain so cutely

848
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.520
and they're like, he can't know that pain this well

849
00:33:07.520 --> 00:33:09.840
and not be able to deliver it, sure.

850
00:33:09.840 --> 00:33:11.880
And so that's where the pain is the pitch comes from.

851
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:14.840
And so oftentimes when people try to write sales pages

852
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.680
or even they're trying to use sales pitch,

853
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:19.560
they, I think many people will overemphasize promise

854
00:33:19.560 --> 00:33:21.040
and there's nothing wrong with having promise,

855
00:33:21.040 --> 00:33:23.160
you know, private, it's conflinal and stuff.

856
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.080
But the thing is pain is what motivates

857
00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:27.560
a lot of people to take action.

858
00:33:27.560 --> 00:33:29.840
It's cool to hear you speak

859
00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:34.440
because what really stands out is how much of an engineer you are

860
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.760
and you have this almost mathematical,

861
00:33:37.760 --> 00:33:39.360
not formulaic way of speaking,

862
00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:41.200
but you are in search of formulas

863
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:43.360
in the way that engineers are

864
00:33:43.360 --> 00:33:46.360
in basically trying to break down reality into formulas

865
00:33:46.360 --> 00:33:48.960
to basically say, yo, I'm trying to figure out

866
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:53.040
how things work, simplify it, get it to a place

867
00:33:53.040 --> 00:33:56.680
where it's super clear, concrete stories, examples,

868
00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:58.560
and then I'm going to share it for you

869
00:33:58.560 --> 00:34:00.440
so that any problem that you have,

870
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:03.400
here's an answer.

871
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:05.480
Feel like that's a lot of what you're going for on your rack.

872
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:06.800
It's 100% what I'm going for.

873
00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:08.240
It's actually very well described.

874
00:34:08.240 --> 00:34:10.240
When I get like in my deep emotional places,

875
00:34:10.240 --> 00:34:11.800
I'm like, I just feel like I want to understand

876
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:12.720
the world better.

877
00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:15.240
And a lot of times I feel like I don't understand at all.

878
00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:18.280
And so a lot of my writing is an attempt

879
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:20.200
to just understand one tiny quarter of it

880
00:34:20.200 --> 00:34:21.600
and that just happens to be the quarter

881
00:34:21.600 --> 00:34:22.760
that I spend a lot of my time in.

882
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:24.280
And so I spend a lot of time thinking about business

883
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:26.600
and so a lot of my frameworks, a lot of my writing,

884
00:34:26.600 --> 00:34:31.560
a lot of my content is in search of simplified formulas

885
00:34:31.560 --> 00:34:33.360
of seeing the world accurately.

886
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:36.400
And so fundamentally, if you can predict, you can control.

887
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:37.560
What do you mean?

888
00:34:37.560 --> 00:34:40.440
If you know all the variables that you can influence

889
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:41.640
creating an outcome, right?

890
00:34:41.640 --> 00:34:43.760
Which means that if you have a perfect predictive model,

891
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:45.360
so this would be like from a science perspective.

892
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.560
If you have all the variables that predict an outcome,

893
00:34:47.560 --> 00:34:49.600
then if you reverse that, it means you can also control the outcome.

894
00:34:49.600 --> 00:34:50.200
OK.

895
00:34:50.200 --> 00:34:51.840
If you can make believe the variables.

896
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:53.200
If the weather is one of the variables,

897
00:34:53.200 --> 00:34:54.440
fine, if I can control the weather.

898
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:56.840
But if I can put someone indoors and mimic the weather,

899
00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:00.360
then I can in a very way, in a real way, control the outcome.

900
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.040
So what you're saying is that businesses

901
00:35:02.040 --> 00:35:03.960
have these similar equations.

902
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:06.640
And you can say, I'm sure with this,

903
00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:08.440
I can pull the lever on leads.

904
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:10.520
And then I know what's going to happen here or there.

905
00:35:10.520 --> 00:35:12.040
Yeah, we don't have enough demand.

906
00:35:12.040 --> 00:35:12.560
OK.

907
00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:14.080
Well, demand is straightforward.

908
00:35:14.080 --> 00:35:15.360
Are we going to talk to people 101?

909
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:16.960
Are we going to talk to them one to many?

910
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:19.600
Well, how many customers are we going after 4,100?

911
00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:21.080
It's just probably going to be a 101 approach.

912
00:35:21.080 --> 00:35:22.560
Are we going after mass market weight loss?

913
00:35:22.560 --> 00:35:23.680
It's probably one to many.

914
00:35:23.680 --> 00:35:24.200
OK, cool.

915
00:35:24.200 --> 00:35:26.960
If we're doing one to many, are we going to do paid ads

916
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:28.160
or are we going to be making content?

917
00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:28.920
OK.

918
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.560
Well, we could use one-on-one to get affiliates,

919
00:35:31.560 --> 00:35:34.560
who then are doing paid ads or doing content on our behalf.

920
00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:36.040
Well, then we can use that strategy.

921
00:35:36.040 --> 00:35:37.760
But fundamentally, the only four things

922
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:39.960
that you can do as the entrepreneur or whatever

923
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.680
is go to outreach or manage paid ads content.

924
00:35:42.680 --> 00:35:43.200
That's it.

925
00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:44.200
It's the only thing you can do.

926
00:35:44.200 --> 00:35:45.000
But what about affiliates?

927
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.400
Well, you do one of those four to get the affiliate.

928
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:49.200
You reach out to them.

929
00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:50.640
You make content saying, hey, I'm looking for affiliates.

930
00:35:50.640 --> 00:35:53.400
Or you run ads saying, hey, I've got an influential program.

931
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:55.120
You're going to still have to do that first core

932
00:35:55.120 --> 00:35:57.440
four to get other people to come do the other stuff

933
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.280
on your behalf.

934
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:03.000
Here's the other very hour.

935
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.840
There's two lines that I feel like I've really,

936
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:09.360
that I think you really nailed.

937
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.000
The first is, we'll talk about this one first,

938
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:17.840
that if you put in 10 times more work into a book,

939
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:19.840
because the quality is better, you end up

940
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:22.920
with 100 or 1,000 extra word of math.

941
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:24.000
Talk to me about that.

942
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.440
It's kind of the difference between gold, metal,

943
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:29.120
and fourth place.

944
00:36:29.120 --> 00:36:30.280
The real difference is small.

945
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:32.240
The practical difference is enormous.

946
00:36:32.240 --> 00:36:34.120
So what's the difference in terms of someone's life

947
00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:35.120
when they're the gold medalist

948
00:36:35.120 --> 00:36:36.400
if something they get endorsement deals,

949
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:38.040
they're forever the gold champion,

950
00:36:38.040 --> 00:36:38.880
all that stuff.

951
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:40.880
Fourth, it's like you get nothing.

952
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.360
And so I think a lot of people don't even

953
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:44.920
get fourth to be real.

954
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:46.760
They're number 100.

955
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.240
But the thing is, they still try pretty hard.

956
00:36:49.240 --> 00:36:52.920
It's just that all of the best returns come at the end

957
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:53.760
of work.

958
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:57.320
It's the 16th code of paint that really just makes it

959
00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:58.760
that little bit better.

960
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.880
And I think in an increasingly connected world,

961
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:03.680
more things are winner take all.

962
00:37:03.680 --> 00:37:07.640
Well, the way that I put it is that the curse of the internet

963
00:37:07.640 --> 00:37:09.200
is global competition.

964
00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:11.760
The gift of the internet is global reach.

965
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.400
And because of that, your stuff has to be way better

966
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:15.440
in order to stand out.

967
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.000
But then the rewards on the other side are way bigger.

968
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.520
Yeah, I think Nava has a good quote on this.

969
00:37:19.520 --> 00:37:24.160
He says technology democratizes consumption

970
00:37:24.160 --> 00:37:25.960
and consolidates production.

971
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:27.400
And so it means that if you're the best in the world,

972
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:28.360
you get to do it for everyone.

973
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:29.120
Yeah.

974
00:37:29.120 --> 00:37:30.800
And so then it's like, if you get to do it for everyone,

975
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.720
then it's like, then try and become the best in the world.

976
00:37:32.720 --> 00:37:33.640
And the best in the world, definitely not

977
00:37:33.640 --> 00:37:36.200
going to do it on four yards a week.

978
00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:38.640
It's higher leverage to work more, which

979
00:37:38.640 --> 00:37:41.120
sounds ironic or counterintuitive, right?

980
00:37:41.120 --> 00:37:42.920
Because then that's kind of the point of the way

981
00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:44.160
I think why you like that statement.

982
00:37:44.160 --> 00:37:47.920
It's like, how are you telling me that this unscathable effort

983
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:51.360
where I'm putting in N equals whatever, many more repetitions?

984
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.040
Like, I'm getting diminishing returns here.

985
00:37:54.040 --> 00:37:58.880
How can that be more efficient than doing half the work

986
00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:00.080
or having a ghost rider?

987
00:38:00.080 --> 00:38:01.680
It's like, well, if I have a ghost rider,

988
00:38:01.680 --> 00:38:04.960
no one's going to talk about my book, right?

989
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.080
Like, I'm just going to have a marketing campaign.

990
00:38:07.080 --> 00:38:10.120
I'm going to sell whatever it is before people read the book.

991
00:38:10.120 --> 00:38:11.360
And that's it.

992
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:14.240
But the long tail on time is huge.

993
00:38:14.240 --> 00:38:18.880
And so the fact that like Rich Dad Portad still sells 100,000 copies

994
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:22.000
a month, 40 years, 50 years later,

995
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.720
then when he originally wrote it, I'm like,

996
00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:30.040
I want to build assets, not magazines with hard covers.

997
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:32.760
And that's also why I spent a long time on all the books

998
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:35.160
to try and make them evergreen.

999
00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:36.800
Like, think about writing a book on advertising

1000
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:39.720
without talking about any single platform.

1001
00:38:39.720 --> 00:38:40.920
Facebook is not in there.

1002
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.760
Instagram is not in there.

1003
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.200
So as you were thinking about this,

1004
00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:47.840
you were like, in 2018, I want this book to be as useful

1005
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:48.840
as it was when I wrote it.

1006
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.000
Is the easiest way I do it as I back tested it?

1007
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:52.000
What does that mean?

1008
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:53.960
Does this make sense 2,000 years ago?

1009
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:55.200
People still want things to be risk-free.

1010
00:38:55.200 --> 00:38:56.240
They still want them to be fast.

1011
00:38:56.240 --> 00:38:57.480
They still want them to be easy.

1012
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.920
You can reach out to people 101 that you know

1013
00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:00.640
that you don't know.

1014
00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:04.360
Reach out one to many that you know that you don't know.

1015
00:39:06.080 --> 00:39:08.080
Like reaching out one to many is standing on the corner

1016
00:39:08.080 --> 00:39:10.160
or corner of a street and shouting.

1017
00:39:10.160 --> 00:39:10.920
Right.

1018
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:11.760
So what it is?

1019
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:12.600
Right.

1020
00:39:12.600 --> 00:39:13.840
You can put a billboard up.

1021
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:15.120
You can have a sign.

1022
00:39:15.120 --> 00:39:16.760
Like, this works 2,000 years ago.

1023
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:18.600
And so rather than trying to predict the future,

1024
00:39:18.600 --> 00:39:21.080
I just look at the past and say, does this still work?

1025
00:39:21.080 --> 00:39:21.920
This one's good too.

1026
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:23.640
It's from meek alone to them.

1027
00:39:23.640 --> 00:39:26.320
If people saw how much work I put into my art,

1028
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:29.760
they wouldn't think it's as exceptional as it is.

1029
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.920
I love this visual, which is that if you look at a marathon,

1030
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:33.880
right, if you've ever been like God

1031
00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:35.400
with somebody to some marathon that they're running

1032
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:39.240
and you wanted to support them, 95% of people

1033
00:39:39.240 --> 00:39:42.320
are in two places at the beginning of the end.

1034
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.480
But the marathon's everything in between.

1035
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:48.720
And so we, as a society, the highlight real

1036
00:39:48.720 --> 00:39:49.960
is only these two places.

1037
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:51.560
And so what happens is most people in their mind

1038
00:39:51.560 --> 00:39:54.600
assume that that is the race starting and then finishing.

1039
00:39:54.600 --> 00:39:56.600
But the 26.2 miles that happens in between,

1040
00:39:56.600 --> 00:39:59.080
like the mundane middle, right, master the middle.

1041
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:01.480
Is the part where the champion's made.

1042
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:04.280
And so I think that to this same degree,

1043
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:09.280
like if people saw that I wrote 19 drafts of this book,

1044
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:14.120
they wouldn't think it was that special.

1045
00:40:14.120 --> 00:40:14.920
Can we do this?

1046
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:17.560
Can we open up to that table of content?

1047
00:40:17.560 --> 00:40:18.840
And once again, I just want to remind you,

1048
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:22.320
take as much time as you need to find,

1049
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:24.120
so it's the second sticky note here.

1050
00:40:24.120 --> 00:40:25.240
So if you go right here,

1051
00:40:25.240 --> 00:40:27.160
should it open up right to it?

1052
00:40:27.200 --> 00:40:29.720
But Katie, as much time as you need to go through

1053
00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:30.760
the table of contents.

1054
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:33.240
And I think it'd be really cool to walk us through

1055
00:40:33.240 --> 00:40:35.960
how some of these ideas have changed.

1056
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:38.680
And also, I just want to emphasize before you start here,

1057
00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:40.520
this table of contents, it's not like,

1058
00:40:40.520 --> 00:40:42.320
oh, Alex made a table of contents.

1059
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:43.160
No, no, no.

1060
00:40:43.160 --> 00:40:47.120
This, the table of contents is the outline for your book.

1061
00:40:47.120 --> 00:40:50.200
And so it does a lot more than a standard table of contents.

1062
00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:53.520
And I feel like that's how Alex's opinion.

1063
00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:54.720
I feel like that's how books should write.

1064
00:40:55.600 --> 00:40:57.360
If you want to figure out, if you want to read a book,

1065
00:40:57.360 --> 00:40:58.920
I feel like you should read the table of contents

1066
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.360
and be able to make a good decision.

1067
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:03.200
And that's kind of, and I try to make my titles

1068
00:41:03.200 --> 00:41:05.320
and chapter headings like, pretty descriptive.

1069
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:07.840
Like, this is about or might reach.

1070
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:08.760
So what's going on here?

1071
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:11.440
So when you start, what am I looking at?

1072
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:13.440
So believe it or not, this book was,

1073
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.440
the original through line was going to be about leverage.

1074
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:19.240
And I ended up cutting all of the leverage concepts

1075
00:41:19.240 --> 00:41:20.600
from the book for the most part,

1076
00:41:20.600 --> 00:41:22.800
except for one chapter right before lead getters.

1077
00:41:23.640 --> 00:41:26.960
Because I just, it was so difficult to try and weave it in

1078
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:28.440
that it felt forced.

1079
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:31.240
I still believe it to be like the actual essence of that.

1080
00:41:31.240 --> 00:41:34.000
But because it's like, how can I, as one man,

1081
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.160
get 20,000, 30,000 leads a day?

1082
00:41:36.160 --> 00:41:38.080
Like, well, I can't do it.

1083
00:41:38.080 --> 00:41:39.480
I do it through leverage.

1084
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:41.560
And so that was kind of like the catalyst

1085
00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:43.400
for wanting to even like begin writing about this.

1086
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:44.560
Yeah.

1087
00:41:44.560 --> 00:41:47.520
But anyways, so this was kind of like my rough ideas.

1088
00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:51.280
Like, okay, you know, I have to define some terms.

1089
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:53.200
Right, I have to define media, lead gen leads,

1090
00:41:53.200 --> 00:41:56.560
content promotion, the three contact types,

1091
00:41:56.560 --> 00:41:57.840
which is not even a thing.

1092
00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:00.000
I thought it was going to be a thing.

1093
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.160
It wasn't a thing.

1094
00:42:01.160 --> 00:42:04.120
Promotions, I ended up just cutting entirely from the book

1095
00:42:04.120 --> 00:42:04.960
and using somewhere else.

1096
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:06.120
I'll just leave that there.

1097
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:09.360
And, you know, I was going to take this very like,

1098
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:12.280
like everything we used to talk about marketing is wrong, right?

1099
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:14.680
And I do believe that to a great degree

1100
00:42:14.680 --> 00:42:16.040
that is somewhat true.

1101
00:42:16.040 --> 00:42:17.600
But it's like, okay, I'm going to define the target.

1102
00:42:17.600 --> 00:42:19.600
And so it was like the market, you know,

1103
00:42:19.600 --> 00:42:22.240
deeper up down adjacent, different market types,

1104
00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:23.800
I ended up cutting that from the book.

1105
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:26.600
So, but what I see you doing here is you're kind of trying

1106
00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:30.800
to do a full pass, give yourself enough fidelity

1107
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.280
to see where you're going, but you're not married to this.

1108
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.120
I mean, we did 19 drafts here and we completely rewrote it

1109
00:42:36.120 --> 00:42:38.520
after number 12, but you're not married to this.

1110
00:42:38.520 --> 00:42:41.640
But it's crucial that you're actually putting enough on

1111
00:42:41.640 --> 00:42:44.040
that you're like, I can at least start walking.

1112
00:42:44.040 --> 00:42:45.040
Yeah.

1113
00:42:45.080 --> 00:42:47.200
And so I would say that one of the biggest filters

1114
00:42:47.200 --> 00:42:50.880
that I use for utility is whether it can be operationalized.

1115
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:51.720
Huh.

1116
00:42:51.720 --> 00:42:53.760
And so the fact that it's unsurprising me now

1117
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.760
because this was however many years ago that I wrote that,

1118
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:57.400
the activity box is what I called this.

1119
00:42:57.400 --> 00:42:59.480
I didn't even have the name of the core for yet.

1120
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:03.480
But the idea that like, what can I tell someone to do?

1121
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:06.200
If I can't change their behavior, they cannot learn,

1122
00:43:06.200 --> 00:43:07.800
which means that there's no point in writing about it

1123
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:09.920
unless it changes their what they do, right?

1124
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.320
And so that has pretty much been the biggest lens

1125
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:14.760
that I use from a cutting perspective,

1126
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:15.600
what I'm making the book.

1127
00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:17.120
And so I think the reason a lot of people are like men,

1128
00:43:17.120 --> 00:43:18.640
the books are what I understand.

1129
00:43:18.640 --> 00:43:20.800
People say that they're really digestible,

1130
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.320
they're really easy to use, really easy to understand.

1131
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:26.040
It's because I talk almost zero about theory.

1132
00:43:26.040 --> 00:43:26.880
Yes.

1133
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:28.280
I only talk about what you do.

1134
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:31.440
And by talking that way, it demystifies a lot of it.

1135
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:33.400
I will eventually write a book on branding,

1136
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.040
but I looked up all the definitions

1137
00:43:36.040 --> 00:43:38.200
of branding on the internet from different marketers.

1138
00:43:38.200 --> 00:43:40.280
And I was like, I don't know what any of this means.

1139
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:41.120
They're all fluffy.

1140
00:43:41.200 --> 00:43:43.680
It's all like the feelings, impressions, experiences

1141
00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:45.320
that a prospect has and associates,

1142
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:47.400
and I was like, I don't know what any of this is, right?

1143
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:49.120
I was like, well, if I want to brand,

1144
00:43:49.120 --> 00:43:53.440
I have to figure out what I do to brand, right?

1145
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:55.200
And answering that question is pretty much

1146
00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:57.560
been how I try to answer everything within businesses,

1147
00:43:57.560 --> 00:44:00.120
which is like, okay, what is sales?

1148
00:44:00.120 --> 00:44:01.440
Is just having a conversation that increases

1149
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:02.800
like that's someone purchases, right?

1150
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:03.720
It's like, okay, cool.

1151
00:44:03.720 --> 00:44:05.120
So then everything that increases

1152
00:44:05.120 --> 00:44:06.120
like that someone purchases

1153
00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:08.240
within the context of conversation is sales, right?

1154
00:44:08.240 --> 00:44:09.920
And so then like, okay, now I can start working

1155
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:10.840
through this, right?

1156
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:11.680
Okay.

1157
00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:13.240
So this is the first version.

1158
00:44:13.240 --> 00:44:14.880
And I will say that often happens.

1159
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:16.240
It's like, I'll write all these ideas

1160
00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:17.480
that I want to have in the book.

1161
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:19.520
And I'll probably end up being able

1162
00:44:19.520 --> 00:44:22.440
to make the book like 10% of it.

1163
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:23.720
So like if I look at all of this,

1164
00:44:23.720 --> 00:44:26.120
I cut out, like I cut out so many people,

1165
00:44:26.120 --> 00:44:28.320
like I have this though, just this one line

1166
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:29.560
was the second half of the book.

1167
00:44:30.560 --> 00:44:34.640
Just this one line, like operational drag reliability,

1168
00:44:34.640 --> 00:44:37.360
method, platform off, all of that was cut.

1169
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:38.200
More and do better.

1170
00:44:38.200 --> 00:44:40.240
Actually put at the end of section one

1171
00:44:40.240 --> 00:44:42.640
around the activities, like it was, I moved.

1172
00:44:42.640 --> 00:44:44.320
So actually this is really interesting

1173
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:47.120
that you don't actually have a very good sense

1174
00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:48.680
of what ideas are gonna be the best ones.

1175
00:44:48.680 --> 00:44:50.520
Like you love more new better.

1176
00:44:50.520 --> 00:44:51.920
You absolutely love that idea.

1177
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:52.920
But look where it is.

1178
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.160
It's section six, bottom line.

1179
00:44:55.160 --> 00:44:57.320
Almost looks like an afterthought.

1180
00:44:57.320 --> 00:44:59.560
So that this idea right here,

1181
00:44:59.560 --> 00:45:01.840
that's like an embryo that then really grew

1182
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:04.360
through the process of writing this book.

1183
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:05.440
Oh yeah.

1184
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:07.040
So like once I get tired enough of something,

1185
00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:09.160
I'm like, all right, I'm gonna rewrite it from the top again.

1186
00:45:09.160 --> 00:45:12.280
And so this is me rewriting it the sections, right?

1187
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:15.200
And so I'm like, okay, now it's actually just to find the target

1188
00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:18.080
where when give, ask, evaluate, scale.

1189
00:45:18.080 --> 00:45:20.920
So I thought it was gonna be this like incremental process

1190
00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:21.800
that I'm leading somewhat.

1191
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:23.720
Because again, leverage was like this through line

1192
00:45:23.720 --> 00:45:27.480
that I wanted to have through the book.

1193
00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:29.040
And so then I got to like, okay,

1194
00:45:29.040 --> 00:45:31.480
maybe I can try and visualize this a little bit better.

1195
00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:35.080
And so marketing, like where do people actually come from?

1196
00:45:35.080 --> 00:45:36.920
Because people exist, how to get them to find to be.

1197
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:38.120
Like I would have forced them to find

1198
00:45:38.120 --> 00:45:39.400
which fundamentally is what I think advertising

1199
00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:40.720
is you force people to find out.

1200
00:45:40.720 --> 00:45:44.280
It's also just striking that you're doing a lot of drawings

1201
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.760
to basically work out the high level thing.

1202
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:48.880
This isn't your writing and then you're drawing.

1203
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:50.000
It's like you're drawing

1204
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.000
and that's how you kind of get the conceptual map

1205
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:52.840
of where you're gonna go.

1206
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:54.800
Yeah, I do almost all doodles in the beginning.

1207
00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:56.520
Yes, the doodles are at the beginning at the end.

1208
00:45:56.520 --> 00:45:57.920
And this is an iPad thing?

1209
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.480
Yeah, yeah, just like, yeah, just notes or whatever.

1210
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:01.880
I mean, this is a huge amount of time

1211
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:04.360
that I was like, you know, media different,

1212
00:46:04.520 --> 00:46:05.960
this is book on advertising.

1213
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:07.880
So I'm like, okay, well, media is a huge thing,

1214
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:08.920
platforms are a huge thing,

1215
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:10.160
audience selection is a huge thing.

1216
00:46:10.160 --> 00:46:11.520
And so the whole time I'm thinking like, okay,

1217
00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:14.240
maybe that's media section one, platform section two,

1218
00:46:14.240 --> 00:46:15.520
audience section three.

1219
00:46:15.520 --> 00:46:18.160
And I'm like, that's not, that's gonna be so boring.

1220
00:46:18.160 --> 00:46:21.000
Like, that's gonna be a terrible look.

1221
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.520
And then I was like, okay, what about the process?

1222
00:46:22.520 --> 00:46:23.760
Like, how do people buy?

1223
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:25.600
No, real quick, when you get there, you're like,

1224
00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:27.160
oh, it's gonna be so boring, it's gonna be a terrible book.

1225
00:46:27.160 --> 00:46:29.200
Are you down on yourself or are you at this point?

1226
00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:30.920
Like, you know what, I'm gonna work through this.

1227
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:32.240
I need to find another way.

1228
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:33.520
So right here, this regular,

1229
00:46:33.520 --> 00:46:36.120
these four little lines ended up being the second half of the book.

1230
00:46:36.120 --> 00:46:37.120
Wow.

1231
00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:39.080
So like, it totally, like, it just keeps,

1232
00:46:39.080 --> 00:46:41.280
and a lot of times it's like this cutting away process,

1233
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.480
right, this is actually just continued

1234
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:43.840
from the one before.

1235
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:45.440
Because this is all leverage,

1236
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:46.440
all this stuff was leverage.

1237
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:48.040
So I'm like, okay, this is the first time,

1238
00:46:48.040 --> 00:46:50.680
I'm like, really, I've got this attract attention,

1239
00:46:50.680 --> 00:46:51.720
interrupt attention.

1240
00:46:51.720 --> 00:46:54.320
So it's like, maybe that's gonna be like an angle.

1241
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:55.520
Yeah, because I didn't, I didn't have-

1242
00:46:55.520 --> 00:46:57.440
But see, this is the most method,

1243
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.320
which is like, you're always trying to find

1244
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:02.400
either mutually exclusive collective,

1245
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:04.480
collectively, it's awesome, or these contrasts,

1246
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:06.520
where either on this side, or you're this side.

1247
00:47:06.520 --> 00:47:08.800
Which I think is how you can make the mesees.

1248
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:11.840
Like, if you draw one line, it's gonna be valid.

1249
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.040
If you draw two lines, it's much harder.

1250
00:47:14.040 --> 00:47:15.040
We're not gonna be valid.

1251
00:47:15.040 --> 00:47:15.880
Right.

1252
00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:17.200
Because are they all true mutually, so is it?

1253
00:47:17.200 --> 00:47:18.520
Right.

1254
00:47:18.520 --> 00:47:20.720
Yeah, so this is me trying to put sentences in place

1255
00:47:20.720 --> 00:47:22.160
of all the different ways you can get customers.

1256
00:47:22.160 --> 00:47:23.000
Okay.

1257
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:26.720
Yeah, and then I try to make it in this like,

1258
00:47:26.720 --> 00:47:28.360
leverage equation of like you,

1259
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:30.720
times promotion, times off, or times the medium,

1260
00:47:30.720 --> 00:47:33.680
times the platform, like that's all the variables that,

1261
00:47:33.680 --> 00:47:34.520
but it exists.

1262
00:47:34.520 --> 00:47:36.720
This whole thing ended up being one paragraph.

1263
00:47:36.720 --> 00:47:37.560
Wow.

1264
00:47:37.560 --> 00:47:39.760
In the second half of the book.

1265
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:41.520
That's absolutely striking to me,

1266
00:47:41.520 --> 00:47:44.720
is how you just don't actually have a very good intuition

1267
00:47:44.720 --> 00:47:46.400
for which one of the ideas are gonna be good.

1268
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:48.960
And that's not, I think that that's all writers.

1269
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:51.160
So we just kind of have to wait and-

1270
00:47:51.160 --> 00:47:53.760
And I was like, I'm supposedly good at marketing.

1271
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:56.200
So that was a little humiliating.

1272
00:47:56.200 --> 00:47:57.200
This has been my big filter.

1273
00:47:57.200 --> 00:47:58.640
It's like, what do I do?

1274
00:47:58.640 --> 00:48:00.000
Yeah, what does someone do this result?

1275
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:01.680
And if I can't clearly define that,

1276
00:48:01.680 --> 00:48:03.920
then I probably either just need to break it down more,

1277
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:04.760
or I just need to cut it.

1278
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:05.600
It's just not a thing.

1279
00:48:05.600 --> 00:48:06.440
Yeah.

1280
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:08.640
That's been probably my number one filter for everything.

1281
00:48:08.640 --> 00:48:10.280
Like, what is the change about someone's behavior?

1282
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:12.200
And that's why defining learning was so important for me.

1283
00:48:12.200 --> 00:48:13.400
They give out what this book to educate.

1284
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:14.760
Educates about changing behavior.

1285
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:16.760
Fundamentally, if you don't change your behavior and learn,

1286
00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:19.760
just like in the simplest, like that is how you define learning.

1287
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:24.320
And the speed of the rate of learning is indulgence.

1288
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:26.360
So if I have to show you the same thing

1289
00:48:26.360 --> 00:48:28.080
that I'm oftentimes free-changing behavior,

1290
00:48:28.080 --> 00:48:30.280
then you are done with some of you can change it immediately.

1291
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:31.240
Sure, right.

1292
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:34.520
So growing into it, you got to do more,

1293
00:48:34.520 --> 00:48:38.720
pay more new platforms, more frequency, more uniques,

1294
00:48:38.720 --> 00:48:41.360
more, I kept working through this.

1295
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:43.680
And so this was actually just continued there

1296
00:48:43.680 --> 00:48:45.080
from that same set, same page.

1297
00:48:45.080 --> 00:48:48.240
And I'm like, okay, scrap all of that.

1298
00:48:48.240 --> 00:48:50.720
Let's start with just like, what about the basic questions of like,

1299
00:48:50.720 --> 00:48:53.640
okay, maybe it's just who, what, where, when, how,

1300
00:48:53.640 --> 00:48:54.920
how much, how long?

1301
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:56.960
And what's crucial is you don't get here,

1302
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:58.960
unless you have all these changes.

1303
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.640
And so that, for a minute, I thought this was going

1304
00:49:01.640 --> 00:49:04.320
to become the table of contents.

1305
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:07.040
And then what it really became is this became the action

1306
00:49:08.040 --> 00:49:11.360
at the end of every chapter for, yeah, go for it.

1307
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:14.240
Yeah, so that's the final result of me being like,

1308
00:49:14.240 --> 00:49:16.560
oh, this isn't the table of contents.

1309
00:49:16.560 --> 00:49:20.800
This is what I need to show for every way of advertising.

1310
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:23.520
So when you're posting content and you make your action checklist,

1311
00:49:23.520 --> 00:49:25.520
you just have to say, okay, who's my customer?

1312
00:49:25.520 --> 00:49:27.600
You know, what, what am I, like, what am I going to do?

1313
00:49:27.600 --> 00:49:28.440
Where am I going to do?

1314
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:29.280
What meeting or platform?

1315
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:30.560
What am I going to make this post?

1316
00:49:30.560 --> 00:49:32.120
So this is basically how you make your list of,

1317
00:49:32.120 --> 00:49:33.400
this is what I'm going to do.

1318
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:34.240
Right.

1319
00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:36.080
I love how messy all this stuff is.

1320
00:49:36.080 --> 00:49:38.360
I don't know, I find that to be so gratifying.

1321
00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:40.560
You know, because it's so clean in the output.

1322
00:49:40.560 --> 00:49:42.760
And it's just that this is a train wreck.

1323
00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:43.600
Thanks, mate.

1324
00:49:43.600 --> 00:49:45.360
Yeah, three ways.

1325
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:47.480
I mean, I could keep going on this, but if you do this,

1326
00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:50.160
go to the very last one before the table of contents in here.

1327
00:49:50.160 --> 00:49:51.000
The final.

1328
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:52.120
Yeah, let's go to the final.

1329
00:49:52.120 --> 00:49:52.960
Yeah.

1330
00:49:53.080 --> 00:49:55.440
And then I thought, and this, this is what was so painful.

1331
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:57.680
I thought this was going to be a thing forever.

1332
00:49:57.680 --> 00:50:00.240
Like, I thought that I had this like friction framework thing,

1333
00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:01.680
like filters, because I thought it was like,

1334
00:50:01.680 --> 00:50:03.440
maybe it's like a distillation process.

1335
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.760
Like, you distill, like raw attention is the input

1336
00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:09.680
and then leads is the distilled output of that.

1337
00:50:09.680 --> 00:50:13.320
And so I kept doing that lead distillation process.

1338
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:16.000
And so then I was like, maybe I could get back in him around this.

1339
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:19.480
Um, and then I'm coming back to this method medium thing.

1340
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:21.560
That's a forever, a good time to work through.

1341
00:50:22.080 --> 00:50:23.280
And then I was like, can I do peace?

1342
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:25.680
Like, I don't know if I can find an acronym, I'll use it.

1343
00:50:25.680 --> 00:50:27.840
I kept going, not even knowing the end of this thing is right.

1344
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.640
So right here, I see start here, get understanding,

1345
00:50:30.640 --> 00:50:33.600
get leads, get lead, getters, get started.

1346
00:50:33.600 --> 00:50:35.520
Yeah, and then this became the final.

1347
00:50:35.520 --> 00:50:38.880
So this was like a couple of versions before the final.

1348
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:40.120
And then that was the final.

1349
00:50:40.120 --> 00:50:41.480
Nice.

1350
00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:43.560
That very messy process got me to here.

1351
00:50:43.560 --> 00:50:46.840
Wow, I mean, this is the work, man.

1352
00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:50.760
It's all it's draft after draft after draft.

1353
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:54.440
So we look at how much stuff is here, right?

1354
00:50:54.440 --> 00:51:01.240
The amount that actually made it to here is like this, this line,

1355
00:51:01.240 --> 00:51:05.120
this became one chapter, and that's it.

1356
00:51:05.120 --> 00:51:07.120
Everything else I'm more or less throughout.

1357
00:51:07.120 --> 00:51:09.560
So that's how I came up with those people content.

1358
00:51:09.560 --> 00:51:12.000
And then I was like, all I gotta do now is just write the book.

1359
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:12.520
Right.

1360
00:51:12.520 --> 00:51:15.360
So then once you did that, then it was basically game time.

1361
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:16.720
Yeah, then it was easy.

1362
00:51:16.720 --> 00:51:17.320
Tell me about this.

1363
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:21.240
How do you think about who you're writing for?

1364
00:51:21.240 --> 00:51:24.080
Because one of the things I learned from you is there's this difference

1365
00:51:24.080 --> 00:51:26.400
between being known and being respected.

1366
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:30.000
And it's really easy to look at the analytics and say,

1367
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:31.560
number go up, therefore good.

1368
00:51:31.560 --> 00:51:35.160
But no, you're trying to reach a specific kind of person.

1369
00:51:35.160 --> 00:51:37.400
So how do you think about that?

1370
00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:40.240
I think it's the validity utility piece.

1371
00:51:40.240 --> 00:51:41.920
Like is this useful?

1372
00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:43.880
And I think that people will consume things that are useful for them.

1373
00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:44.960
Like, does it make their life easier?

1374
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:46.480
Does it make things happen faster?

1375
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:48.320
Does it make things less risky?

1376
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:50.240
Depending on who you talk to, like,

1377
00:51:50.240 --> 00:51:52.520
if I talk about food, then that applies to everyone.

1378
00:51:52.520 --> 00:51:55.120
If I talk about leads, it's only applied to people who are advertising,

1379
00:51:55.120 --> 00:51:56.600
which is usually business owners.

1380
00:51:56.600 --> 00:52:00.600
And so I think about this in context of deep and wide versus wide.

1381
00:52:00.600 --> 00:52:06.600
And so wide, I define as something that is only useful for a beginner.

1382
00:52:08.520 --> 00:52:12.200
And deep, I define as something that is useful for anyone,

1383
00:52:12.200 --> 00:52:14.040
like in a vertical.

1384
00:52:14.040 --> 00:52:18.640
And so how to get your first five clients is useful really only for a beginner.

1385
00:52:18.640 --> 00:52:20.120
Because anybody who already has customers is like,

1386
00:52:20.120 --> 00:52:22.000
I know how to get my first five clients.

1387
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:27.000
But if I talk about strategy, that's useful for somebody who's starting out

1388
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:28.960
and somebody who's got a billion dollar company.

1389
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:30.360
Because I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

1390
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:32.920
I can have something as deep and wide.

1391
00:52:32.920 --> 00:52:36.200
And that's kind of our sweet spot for what we try to do.

1392
00:52:36.200 --> 00:52:37.240
No, we don't always succeed.

1393
00:52:37.240 --> 00:52:39.520
But like, that's our, that is the intention.

1394
00:52:39.520 --> 00:52:42.920
Is that I'd like to have something that a beginner can get value from

1395
00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:46.440
and somebody who's super advanced can also get value from independent of their content?

1396
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:47.440
Mm-hmm.

1397
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:50.720
And how do you think about the general strategy of what you're doing?

1398
00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:53.440
Like, what was the genesis moment of,

1399
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:56.520
we're going to make rock and business content.

1400
00:52:56.520 --> 00:53:01.400
And then that'll be the first domino that then makes all these other ones fall.

1401
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:03.680
Tim Ferriss has his concept of like the big domino.

1402
00:53:03.680 --> 00:53:06.480
So you kind of like, out of your purposely referencing it.

1403
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:10.400
But basically like, is there one thing that is so important that I can do

1404
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:13.440
that if I do that, it makes the rest of my to-do list irrelevant.

1405
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:15.360
And so it's like, if you have 100 things on the to-do list,

1406
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:17.600
it's like, there's probably not one that's important enough.

1407
00:53:17.600 --> 00:53:20.000
Because if it weren't important enough, it would make the other ones disappear.

1408
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:23.040
Either shrinking to a relevance or accomplished by consequence, right?

1409
00:53:23.040 --> 00:53:25.080
And so we're investors, right?

1410
00:53:25.080 --> 00:53:27.640
And we have capital.

1411
00:53:27.640 --> 00:53:29.400
And so what does every investor want?

1412
00:53:29.400 --> 00:53:31.120
They want a proprietary deal flow.

1413
00:53:31.120 --> 00:53:36.680
And you want to shift the supply demand in your favor.

1414
00:53:36.680 --> 00:53:42.040
And so if I can have unlimited people coming towards me who have good businesses

1415
00:53:42.040 --> 00:53:44.200
that wanted to deals only with me,

1416
00:53:44.200 --> 00:53:50.120
then I can decrease the likelihood that basically I can decrease my skillet picking

1417
00:53:50.120 --> 00:53:54.480
and negotiating and still probably do well.

1418
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.600
I saw the ultimate way of maximizing my luck surface area

1419
00:53:58.600 --> 00:54:03.400
as building, you know, our hope is the most viable business brand

1420
00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:05.560
out there, two business owners.

1421
00:54:05.560 --> 00:54:09.840
And if we can build that, then I don't need to worry about all the negotiation tactics.

1422
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:12.160
I don't need to worry about having the most capital.

1423
00:54:12.160 --> 00:54:14.440
I don't need to worry about having the best term sheets.

1424
00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:16.400
I don't need to worry about any of these things.

1425
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:19.160
If I just have more people who want to do business with me

1426
00:54:19.160 --> 00:54:21.120
than I can possibly do business with.

1427
00:54:21.120 --> 00:54:24.960
And then after you match the supply demand of like, okay,

1428
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:26.480
there's more people who want to do business with me,

1429
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:29.680
then it's how, what quality of person, like basically,

1430
00:54:29.680 --> 00:54:31.160
then you can just consistently continue.

1431
00:54:31.160 --> 00:54:33.200
And that's kind of unlimited, I think.

1432
00:54:33.200 --> 00:54:37.440
Continue to raise the bar of the quality of company and entrepreneur that you work with.

1433
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:38.440
Mm-hmm.

1434
00:54:38.440 --> 00:54:41.280
And so like the companies that we invest in now

1435
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:45.760
don't even look close to the companies that I invested in four years ago.

1436
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:46.760
Talk to you about this.

1437
00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:51.080
The number one creator mistake is building new products for their audience

1438
00:54:51.080 --> 00:54:54.160
rather than building more audience for their product.

1439
00:54:54.160 --> 00:54:56.520
Okay, I would say this little side story, and then I'll ask the question.

1440
00:54:56.520 --> 00:55:01.760
So I'm really a pretty big stickler with written word.

1441
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:06.360
And so it's been very difficult for me to have anyone write for me at all.

1442
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:11.640
And so as Rosal, basically, the only thing that's fair game to my team can use

1443
00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:15.360
to put captions on stuff is stuff that I have said in a video

1444
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:17.840
and they can just transcribe it or tweets.

1445
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:19.160
Okay, that's it.

1446
00:55:19.160 --> 00:55:21.240
Anything else that you've seen that's written is me.

1447
00:55:21.240 --> 00:55:22.000
Okay.

1448
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:23.640
And so like just put context and like,

1449
00:55:23.640 --> 00:55:26.880
if all the words that are out there, like I have written all of them or I've said them,

1450
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:27.920
that's it.

1451
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:32.240
And so to your question, it's this more of a business mistake

1452
00:55:32.240 --> 00:55:35.280
than I think it's just creators following the same traps.

1453
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:38.360
And so let's say they spend this time growing their audience

1454
00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:41.360
and they get to call it, you know, 100,000 followers, whatever.

1455
00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:43.920
And then they come out of the product and then they sell the product

1456
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:44.720
and they make money.

1457
00:55:44.720 --> 00:55:49.560
And then they're like, huh, I should come out with another product to make more money.

1458
00:55:49.560 --> 00:55:54.080
But what it did was it reinforced the wrong activity because it was late.

1459
00:55:54.080 --> 00:55:56.000
So the activity that made the money was building the audience,

1460
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:57.400
not coming with the product.

1461
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:00.600
And so what happens is you find these creators have like six businesses essentially,

1462
00:56:00.600 --> 00:56:03.880
which is really just like six different products that each of the businesses

1463
00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:07.400
in and of themselves could be $100 million plus businesses,

1464
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:09.840
but they don't have enough audience.

1465
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:13.080
And so they do the short term fix,

1466
00:56:13.080 --> 00:56:14.840
which has come up with another thing,

1467
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:18.600
but long term end up drowning in the fact that you have six businesses in your attention split.

1468
00:56:18.600 --> 00:56:20.280
And so there's two components of this.

1469
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:23.920
So one is that if you just launch a product on its own

1470
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:26.360
and there's no repurchase rate or it's not consumable

1471
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:27.800
there's nothing we're caring about it,

1472
00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:29.320
then you're going to have to keep coming up with products,

1473
00:56:29.320 --> 00:56:31.960
which means that's kind of a strategic mistake, right?

1474
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:34.600
You should have just thought of something that like if we've launched it,

1475
00:56:34.600 --> 00:56:37.160
people were going to buy it quickly, but then keep buying it.

1476
00:56:37.160 --> 00:56:38.920
Now you have a regular stream of income,

1477
00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:41.880
then you can take that income and keep doubling down on the audience to grow it

1478
00:56:41.880 --> 00:56:45.400
or pay for other people's audiences or pay for ads or like all the other strategies

1479
00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.560
that are in the book of like expanding, expanding your reach.

1480
00:56:49.560 --> 00:56:50.760
But fun, really, that's the trap.

1481
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:53.400
Is that rather than saying because like you just think about a long enough time,

1482
00:56:53.720 --> 00:57:00.760
do you just keep starting new products and then in 20 years you have 30 products

1483
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:04.520
that you're doing or when I say products a lot of times it's businesses

1484
00:57:04.520 --> 00:57:05.960
because the products are actually not.

1485
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:09.320
They are too differentiated to be like a second product in the same line.

1486
00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:10.680
I use them to have two different t-shirts.

1487
00:57:10.680 --> 00:57:12.120
I don't see that as a different product.

1488
00:57:12.120 --> 00:57:15.080
If someone goes from t-shirts to selling consulting,

1489
00:57:15.080 --> 00:57:16.840
that's a different product, right?

1490
00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:20.280
Versus the alternative, which is like I just make t-shirts

1491
00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:24.120
and I keep advertising and all I do is I keep getting more and more people to find out my t-shirts

1492
00:57:24.120 --> 00:57:26.680
and my brand and that's how I grow my sales.

1493
00:57:26.680 --> 00:57:28.920
And it's going to be more steady, less pops,

1494
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:30.920
but that's how you can build a really big company.

1495
00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:35.080
Whereas if you have seven businesses which are like the most common thing that I see,

1496
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:39.080
your end up just going to be split in and all the products should be crap.

1497
00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:41.080
Yeah, and I say all of them.

1498
00:57:41.080 --> 00:57:45.320
So when you say hey, I'm a real stickler about words, how does that show up?

1499
00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:50.840
We have buy and large solve this problem by me having lots of video content

1500
00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:55.560
and the team being able to take any snippet from anywhere if it's appropriate to use it as

1501
00:57:55.560 --> 00:57:57.400
you know like a caption or something like that.

1502
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:02.040
Like LinkedIn is the only thing that I don't write right.

1503
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:06.520
So captions in LinkedIn are basically things that I don't manually write,

1504
00:58:06.520 --> 00:58:09.640
but they are taken from either tweets or they are taken from videos.

1505
00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:17.880
And so that's, but emails, I write books, I write copy, I write, not ad copy.

1506
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:19.880
That's one that I don't write as much, but that's a problem.

1507
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:20.600
Some things.

1508
00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:23.400
So tell me, what is the business model of these books?

1509
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:26.600
Break it down for me because you sell them for cheap,

1510
00:58:26.600 --> 00:58:29.720
they're, you spend a bunch of time on, I mean the,

1511
00:58:30.680 --> 00:58:33.000
this sort of naive person can be like, what are you doing?

1512
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:34.280
Yeah, it makes no sense.

1513
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:36.360
So that's part of it is that it does make no sense.

1514
00:58:37.160 --> 00:58:39.720
But the other part is that long-term, like,

1515
00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:43.560
I think that I'll die and my hope is that these will still be around.

1516
00:58:43.560 --> 00:58:44.920
But I don't think that's true.

1517
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:47.800
Isn't this the thing that sort of initiates everything else kind of?

1518
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:49.960
Yeah, it gets you to be next for the team.

1519
00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:53.720
Yeah, so from the asset perspective,

1520
00:58:53.720 --> 00:58:55.880
I write these because I really want them to be assets.

1521
00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:57.080
I want them to help a lot of people.

1522
00:58:57.080 --> 00:59:03.560
And I think that anybody who reads my books can feel my intention behind what I'm trying to do.

1523
00:59:03.560 --> 00:59:05.960
Like, if it were just a lead magnet,

1524
00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:08.360
which is why I think it would cheapen it to describe it that way,

1525
00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:09.800
they wouldn't be best selling books.

1526
00:59:09.800 --> 00:59:10.120
Right.

1527
00:59:10.120 --> 00:59:13.000
I think they would just be lead magnets and suck.

1528
00:59:13.560 --> 00:59:17.160
And so I think the ultimate lead magnet should be timeless assets.

1529
00:59:17.160 --> 00:59:19.240
And I think that's where a lot of people mess up when they do what it,

1530
00:59:19.240 --> 00:59:21.960
like 99% of people will never buy anything from you.

1531
00:59:22.600 --> 00:59:25.640
And but 99% of people are what create your reputation.

1532
00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:29.960
And so I want them to consume something that is still exceptionally valuable

1533
00:59:29.960 --> 00:59:32.680
because they are ultimately the ones who will create the reputation you have.

1534
00:59:32.680 --> 00:59:33.800
Now, if people are like, well, you don't know them,

1535
00:59:33.800 --> 00:59:34.680
or you've never done this with them.

1536
00:59:34.680 --> 00:59:37.000
It's like, yeah, but the internet doesn't really deal in nuance.

1537
00:59:37.560 --> 00:59:40.040
And so, yes, this is the gateway drug.

1538
00:59:40.040 --> 00:59:42.200
But really, before this, the gateway drug is the content.

1539
00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:45.640
And so the content is really the first thing that say I'm going to consume.

1540
00:59:45.640 --> 00:59:46.920
And we want to make that really, really good.

1541
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:49.800
And then if they got enough value from the content,

1542
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:51.960
they're like, maybe I'll give one of his books a shot.

1543
00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:54.520
And if they read the book, then they get way more value.

1544
00:59:55.640 --> 00:59:57.320
Then, maybe they come into my world,

1545
00:59:57.320 --> 00:59:58.760
and they show better headquarters,

1546
00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:02.040
and come to come to one of our advisory events.

1547
01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:06.360
And when you speak to people come to the advisory events,

1548
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:08.200
so no, not what kinds of people,

1549
01:00:08.200 --> 01:00:09.880
what kinds of businesses do you recommend

1550
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:12.040
that the founders be writing like you do?

1551
01:00:12.680 --> 01:00:16.200
And then if they do that, what do you tell them

1552
01:00:16.200 --> 01:00:17.640
so that they can be successful?

1553
01:00:17.640 --> 01:00:22.120
And honestly, I basically try to dissuade most people from writing a book.

1554
01:00:23.080 --> 01:00:26.040
And I think that's because it's people who art writers who don't love writing,

1555
01:00:26.040 --> 01:00:27.640
see my book and think, oh, I'll do that.

1556
01:00:27.640 --> 01:00:30.920
And it's just like, it's the Michelangeloq book.

1557
01:00:31.080 --> 01:00:33.400
You don't understand how much work it is,

1558
01:00:33.400 --> 01:00:35.800
and I can already tell you if you've never written

1559
01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:36.840
before you aren't willing to do it.

1560
01:00:37.640 --> 01:00:39.560
Like, I've been writing for a long time.

1561
01:00:39.560 --> 01:00:41.560
I haven't writing as publicly from a book's perspective,

1562
01:00:41.560 --> 01:00:42.680
but I have four books.

1563
01:00:42.680 --> 01:00:44.040
Like, it's not like I'm,

1564
01:00:44.040 --> 01:00:46.520
and before that, I loved writing, you know,

1565
01:00:46.520 --> 01:00:48.520
I've loved writing since I was a kid.

1566
01:00:48.520 --> 01:00:51.320
And so it's something that I can do and can

1567
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:55.720
immerse myself in and really lose myself to the craft.

1568
01:00:56.520 --> 01:00:58.920
And a lot of people can't do that.

1569
01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:01.400
They're not people who are entrepreneurs, so I know

1570
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:04.680
who are like, hey, man, I wrote my book in 12 weeks.

1571
01:01:05.240 --> 01:01:06.440
And I'm like, that's amazing.

1572
01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:11.400
But it's probably not that good.

1573
01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:14.280
And I try to like, got to say that in a mean way.

1574
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:15.480
But it's like, yeah, I'm like, first draft.

1575
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:16.840
They're like, yep, just knocked it out.

1576
01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:19.320
I'm like, that's okay.

1577
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:20.040
You know, sure.

1578
01:01:20.040 --> 01:01:21.560
Okay, come on.

1579
01:01:21.560 --> 01:01:24.360
How you launch a book determines how good you are at marketing?

1580
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:27.160
How well the book is selling two years later determines how good the book is?

1581
01:01:27.640 --> 01:01:32.920
Is there a tactical way that you get more Amazon reviews?

1582
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:34.760
Or is that just one of those things?

1583
01:01:34.760 --> 01:01:37.080
Or, yeah, if the book is good, people are going to worry about it.

1584
01:01:37.080 --> 01:01:39.320
But you really can't influence it that much.

1585
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:43.480
I'm always scared to make a review ask.

1586
01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:45.480
Because my own insecurity is like, well, what if it sucks

1587
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:47.160
and they remember to leave a bad review, right?

1588
01:01:48.440 --> 01:01:50.760
But I think that in some ways, it's almost a libous test

1589
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:53.720
of how confident you are about the quality of the product.

1590
01:01:53.720 --> 01:01:56.280
Like, if you're willing to ask everyone to leave a review,

1591
01:01:56.360 --> 01:01:59.160
then you're really confident that people will like it.

1592
01:01:59.160 --> 01:02:01.880
And so I have a review ask in the middle of both of the books.

1593
01:02:02.920 --> 01:02:04.200
And I figured I put it in the middle.

1594
01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:06.200
So it's like, if someone got to the middle,

1595
01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.240
then they probably like the book.

1596
01:02:08.040 --> 01:02:09.160
Enough to get to the middle, right?

1597
01:02:09.160 --> 01:02:10.040
Not on page five.

1598
01:02:10.040 --> 01:02:10.680
Yeah, exactly.

1599
01:02:10.680 --> 01:02:12.680
Not in the exact, by the way,

1600
01:02:12.680 --> 01:02:14.680
you know, like, I haven't given you any value yet.

1601
01:02:14.680 --> 01:02:16.040
So like, no, I've put it after they,

1602
01:02:16.040 --> 01:02:17.640
hopefully we've gotten a significant amount of value.

1603
01:02:17.640 --> 01:02:20.600
I do think that making an ask increases the likelihood that they leave review.

1604
01:02:21.560 --> 01:02:22.920
But I think if you have a crap book,

1605
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:24.840
then we're like, no, or the way you have bad one,

1606
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:26.680
which is, you know, arguably worse.

1607
01:02:27.640 --> 01:02:31.400
Okay, I don't know anything about your love for writing as a kid.

1608
01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:32.680
And I want to hear about that.

1609
01:02:33.240 --> 01:02:34.920
Yeah, with short stories or poems.

1610
01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:38.760
And I enjoyed that.

1611
01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:39.720
I enjoyed that stuff.

1612
01:02:39.720 --> 01:02:42.360
The free, that's why the literary magazine was probably where I spent,

1613
01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:44.040
like, that's where I wrote more of my stuff.

1614
01:02:44.040 --> 01:02:46.520
So it was all the student submissions for short stories, poems.

1615
01:02:48.120 --> 01:02:49.320
And so I managed to.

1616
01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:51.320
And art and art too, like the kids who put art.

1617
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:53.400
So like to cover art, you know, we'd get a bunch of paintings

1618
01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:55.080
and we'd be like, okay, which of these do we cover?

1619
01:02:55.080 --> 01:02:56.920
And then between stories and between poems,

1620
01:02:56.920 --> 01:02:59.080
we'd put other art from, you know,

1621
01:02:59.080 --> 01:03:01.000
the art department from the kids who are, you know,

1622
01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:03.080
making painting or whatever they're doing.

1623
01:03:03.080 --> 01:03:04.120
You know, pictures of that,

1624
01:03:05.080 --> 01:03:06.360
sculptures and things like that.

1625
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:08.200
And so we, you know, we do a review every week.

1626
01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:11.000
And so that helped me get better at writing,

1627
01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:12.840
just being able to like look at other people's writing.

1628
01:03:15.080 --> 01:03:16.600
And so I just, I enjoyed it.

1629
01:03:16.600 --> 01:03:19.640
I enjoyed that writing significantly more than everything I was assigned to.

1630
01:03:20.200 --> 01:03:21.640
I didn't enjoy that writing.

1631
01:03:21.720 --> 01:03:23.240
And that was actually a really interesting breakthrough for me,

1632
01:03:23.240 --> 01:03:25.080
is that like I didn't like reading that much.

1633
01:03:25.080 --> 01:03:25.880
And that's not common.

1634
01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:27.160
Usually writers like reading, I think.

1635
01:03:29.240 --> 01:03:31.640
I didn't even know that nonfiction was really a genre

1636
01:03:31.640 --> 01:03:34.680
until like, like after I graduated in high school.

1637
01:03:34.680 --> 01:03:36.200
Because everything you read, just about everything

1638
01:03:36.200 --> 01:03:37.480
you read in high school is fiction.

1639
01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:38.520
Or text book.

1640
01:03:38.520 --> 01:03:38.760
Right.

1641
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:39.640
Text book sucks.

1642
01:03:39.640 --> 01:03:41.880
And fiction, I thought was useless.

1643
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:43.960
And so I enjoyed making my own fiction.

1644
01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:46.120
But like, think about like from a learning perspective,

1645
01:03:46.120 --> 01:03:47.160
what has this changed about my life?

1646
01:03:47.160 --> 01:03:47.640
Nothing.

1647
01:03:47.640 --> 01:03:49.800
I'm like, okay, some person, some random land just did some thing

1648
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:51.240
and whatever it doesn't affect me.

1649
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:52.760
It's I never really understood the point.

1650
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:55.080
It's sooner than making my own adult or whatever.

1651
01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:57.320
I got introduced to the nonfiction.

1652
01:03:57.320 --> 01:03:59.240
And I was like, oh my god, this is useful.

1653
01:03:59.240 --> 01:04:03.320
And so then I got more into reading for specific purposes.

1654
01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:04.440
But I still must separate that.

1655
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.280
It's like I was trying to learn a specific thing,

1656
01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:07.400
not analyze the writing.

1657
01:04:07.400 --> 01:04:07.880
Right.

1658
01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:11.800
And so yeah, I just, I really liked writing.

1659
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:13.000
And so I just, it was one of the few things.

1660
01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.240
I feel like I can get the flow really easily with writing.

1661
01:04:15.240 --> 01:04:17.480
Like writing and drawing, which is why all my books have

1662
01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:18.840
lots of drawing, lots of writing.

1663
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:21.560
And I like doing my brainstorming with a pen

1664
01:04:21.560 --> 01:04:23.320
because I don't know if it was more tactile.

1665
01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:25.160
I lose myself in it more easily.

1666
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:27.400
That that was pretty much my experience.

1667
01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:30.360
And I did take a bit of a break from writing

1668
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:31.640
when I got into the business world.

1669
01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:35.480
And it was only like, gosh, it's probably.

1670
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:37.240
Was this like the gym launch days?

1671
01:04:37.240 --> 01:04:39.160
Yeah, well, I wrote the gym launch book.

1672
01:04:39.160 --> 01:04:41.320
But getting, I think I wrote that book in 2018.

1673
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:44.760
So writing the gym launch book was the first like real writing

1674
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:47.400
that I had done that wasn't like copy or things like.

1675
01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:49.320
You're like writing writing that I'd done.

1676
01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:51.800
And I think as soon as that happened, I was like, oh, I missed this.

1677
01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:53.880
It was like, I've forgotten how much I liked it.

1678
01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:56.840
And so then I pretty much haven't stopped writing since.

1679
01:04:57.720 --> 01:04:58.440
Last question.

1680
01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:01.080
So you get a call from UNLV to like, hey, Alex,

1681
01:05:01.080 --> 01:05:02.600
we want you to teach a writing class.

1682
01:05:03.160 --> 01:05:04.520
How you structure the curriculum?

1683
01:05:04.520 --> 01:05:07.240
What are the core things that you want to teach people?

1684
01:05:08.120 --> 01:05:09.320
I'll bet you the first day.

1685
01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:10.600
I'll probably define terms.

1686
01:05:12.200 --> 01:05:13.000
Or first week.

1687
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:16.200
I mean, I would bring this in a section rather than the sessions.

1688
01:05:16.200 --> 01:05:19.080
But like the first section would be the definition of terms.

1689
01:05:20.600 --> 01:05:22.680
The next one would be clarifying the objective

1690
01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:25.240
of why are we writing?

1691
01:05:25.240 --> 01:05:26.200
What are we writing for?

1692
01:05:26.200 --> 01:05:27.240
How does writing serve us?

1693
01:05:27.240 --> 01:05:29.000
Why does it matter?

1694
01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:31.960
And then I would probably transition from there

1695
01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:33.640
to the rules of writing.

1696
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:35.880
What are the rules of writing?

1697
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:37.800
So there's at least as I see it,

1698
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:40.040
I would probably be parroting a lot of Stephen King's

1699
01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:42.120
on writing if I were to say it.

1700
01:05:42.120 --> 01:05:44.280
But like, I think that's one of the best books I'm writing out there.

1701
01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:46.360
As few words as possible.

1702
01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:48.200
Like, if you can use a simple word, use that word.

1703
01:05:50.680 --> 01:05:52.440
You know, very sentence structure.

1704
01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:55.800
So there's a rhythm to it, you know, short, short, long, you know.

1705
01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:58.040
And then from a stylistic perspective,

1706
01:05:58.040 --> 01:06:01.640
I purposely try to use a lower grade language

1707
01:06:02.360 --> 01:06:03.960
because I want more people to understand it.

1708
01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:07.800
I don't think there's, I don't have any ego to people thinking that I'm sort of,

1709
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:10.120
I also have no, nothing against people who use bigger words.

1710
01:06:10.120 --> 01:06:11.320
It is, like, also a word,

1711
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:13.400
concession uses more complex words, right?

1712
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:14.760
But I want a maximum comprehension,

1713
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:17.160
rather than maximum word concession.

1714
01:06:17.160 --> 01:06:19.480
So I use a consideration only as a tool

1715
01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:22.640
to increase comprehension at large.

1716
01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:26.200
So short words, short sentences, big promises.

1717
01:06:27.080 --> 01:06:28.920
This is saying have rules of writing anything else?

1718
01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:31.960
That would be, yeah, that would probably be the next section.

1719
01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:34.200
And I would probably practice

1720
01:06:34.200 --> 01:06:36.840
super constrained writing for people if I was trying to...

1721
01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:39.480
So if the objective of the course was to teach people to write,

1722
01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:45.080
Yeah, then it would be like I want you to write an entire paper on this thing in one page

1723
01:06:45.080 --> 01:06:49.280
Mm-hmm and really force people because I think like Twitter

1724
01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:55.480
I think is or X I think is a wonderful platform for learning how to write because it just you have you have to force the

1725
01:06:55.480 --> 01:06:58.040
I you have to keep crunching them down and I think that's

1726
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:03.440
Honestly, I think X is one of the best tools for learning to write because you get fast feedback

1727
01:07:04.240 --> 01:07:09.040
The other one is I would probably use like Hemingway as

1728
01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:16.520
Because that also gives you real-time feedback. Yeah, and so typing into there is so helpful because you know

1729
01:07:16.520 --> 01:07:19.040
Stephen King pretty much says this is like just don't use that verse

1730
01:07:19.720 --> 01:07:23.840
By large just don't use them like there's a better verb that you're not using X

1731
01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:30.800
And Hemingway would probably be the vast majority of the remainder of the time that I had it would be repetition of

1732
01:07:31.080 --> 01:07:39.440
Them getting fast feedback on the writing that they're doing under specific constraints and I would probably have a lot more

1733
01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:46.320
Free like freedom in terms of topic and far less in terms of rules

1734
01:07:47.240 --> 01:07:51.840
Like you have to obey these rules but you can write whatever you want you have to do it in page or you have to

1735
01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:56.000
In half a page and you can write whatever topic you want, but you have to obey these 27 rules

1736
01:07:56.360 --> 01:07:59.200
All right, because fundamentally when I'm writing for the most part

1737
01:07:59.200 --> 01:08:02.880
I now they're like a lot more less ingrained in how I write

1738
01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:09.280
But if like a section still doesn't seem good. I'll paste it into Hemingway and be like oh, that's why like up and like I you know

1739
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:14.920
Long sentences like there's just there's things that you just learn that you're like oh this might have sounded good in my head

1740
01:08:14.920 --> 01:08:16.200
But no one can read this

1741
01:08:16.200 --> 01:08:21.380
It's so not to get super writing tactical, but that's that's why we do this how I write mate. Yeah

1742
01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:25.660
It's called how I write. Yeah, that's probably how it's like that. So definition of terms

1743
01:08:26.740 --> 01:08:28.740
Why this matters

1744
01:08:28.740 --> 01:08:32.420
And how it's useful for you and I basically sell them or why they should even do this

1745
01:08:33.220 --> 01:08:36.340
Rules of the game and then practice and that'll probably be everything

1746
01:08:37.220 --> 01:08:39.220
The rest would just be practice

1747
01:08:39.220 --> 01:08:46.620
Rock on well, I just want to thank you because I've read a lot of your stuff consumed many many many of your videos had a lot of questions and

1748
01:08:46.620 --> 01:08:53.860
Feel like you answered them well, but also you've been a big inspiration. So thank you. Oh, I appreciate about it. I'm hopefully we're useful