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How can you talk about renting? You're just throwing money away at B.S.

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Should I just dismantle these arguments once and for all?

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Because there's some shocking math behind the mortgage.

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And most people don't know this stuff.

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Let's get into it.

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The meat safety.

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The financial expert and entrepreneur is back to teach you how to take control of your money

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and confront the financial problems that hold us back.

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Most people fall into for money types that I've identified.

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Number one is avoiders and they'd hate talking about money.

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But if your partner simply will not talk about money,

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that's a huge red flag.

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Because 50% of the people I talk to do not know their household income.

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90% who are in debt.

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Do not know how much debt they're in.

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And 100% of the people I talk to in credit card debt also have trouble with money.

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That is shocking.

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Next up, optimizer, they can get you to a very good place.

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They'll be investing.

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We love to live in a spreadsheet, but it can be taken too far.

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And then the dreamer who believes that success is one deal away.

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And they tend to fall into cryptosh*** coin scams.

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Like all this BS.

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Finally.

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Warriors.

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They love to work.

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I'll be going to have enough.

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What if we run out of money?

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Typically, they picked up worrying from their parents,

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who said stuff like money doesn't grow on trees.

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And the problem is you can take it a little too far

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and they become cheap and become so obsessed with $3 questions,

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like agonizing over buying a coffee.

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But everybody listen closely because I want to break down how you can change

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any of these types.

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So...

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Remy, do any investment makes couples make this buying a house?

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What is the alternative?

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This is where real wealth is free.

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Let's simplify the whole thing.

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And I have four numbers that everyone should be talking about.

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The first stop is your...

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This has always blown my mind a little bit.

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53% of you that listen to this show regularly

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haven't yet subscribed to this show.

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So could I ask you for a favor before we start?

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If you like the show and you like what we do here

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and you want to support us,

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the free simple way that you can do just that

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is by hitting the subscribe button.

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And my commitment to you is if you do that,

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then I'll do everything in my power,

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me and my team to make sure that this show is better for you

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every single week.

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We'll listen to your feedback.

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We'll find the guests that you want me to speak to

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and we'll continue to do what we do.

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Thank you so much.

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Remy, if someone's just clicked on this conversation,

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please explain to me exactly why they should stay

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and listen to what we're about to discuss on the basis

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that we're about to talk about the things

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you've written in this book.

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If you are single and dating,

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if you are engaged or if you have been married for 25 years,

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money is one of the central parts of our lives.

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And most of us think about money as something to be avoided.

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It's something we only talk about when things have gone wrong.

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What a terrible way to live.

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And there is a different way,

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which is we can use money as a source of connection,

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possibility and joy.

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And that is what we're going to talk about today.

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I had a conversation a couple of days ago, actually,

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with James Sexton, who's the divorce expert.

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He's a divorce lawyer by trade,

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but he knows more about divorce than anybody else.

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And he said to me, there's two things which cause people

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to end up in his office going through a divorce.

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Number one is cheating in fidelity.

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And the second thing is money problems in the relationship.

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So I find it especially sort of pertinent

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to have this conversation with you about couples' relationship with money,

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because clearly one of the things that is most likely to end my relationship,

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or I guess prevent me getting into one,

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is this financial avoidance that most of us engage in.

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You've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of couples about money on your podcast.

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What have you learned about our relationship with money in relationships from that?

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I've learned that 50% of the people I talk to do not know their household income.

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90% of the people I talk to who are in debt do not know how much debt they're in.

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And 100% of the people I talk to, in credit card debt,

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also have trouble saying no to their children.

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Isn't that shocking?

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Each of those things, 50% do not know how much income they make,

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because most of us are simply living by looking at our checking account.

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And that's it.

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The debt part kind of makes sense.

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Why would you want to know how much debt you owe?

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You don't really want to think about it so you ignore those emails and envelopes.

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And the credit card debt part, that is really interesting.

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The idea that if you can't say no to spending, so you've racked up a bunch of credit card debt,

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the same principle applies to saying no to kids.

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For me, when I discover these, I find them absolutely fascinating,

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but the good news is you can also change these things.

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And what's the difference between men and women in terms of spending habits in a relationship,

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secrecy, avoidance, arguments?

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Well, let's start with the rules.

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Men always describe themselves as providers, always.

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That's what we are taught.

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It exists in culture.

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The problem is, of course, what happens when they are not the top earner,

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which is happening increasingly more now.

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So when I often ask them, who are you financially speaking if you're not a provider?

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And they're just stumped.

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But there's got to be something more than simply being a provider.

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You can be a provider, and you can be a nurture.

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You can be a provider, and you can be a helper, a leader.

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There's so many different ways.

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Often what you'll see with women is discussions about a secret bank account.

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Keep a little money aside just in case.

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We have to remember that in the US,

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many grandmothers were not allowed to open up their own bank accounts.

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That happened in two generations ago.

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And so there has been a rightful message that has been passed down orally.

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Keep a little bit of money aside just in case.

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Whether it be physical abuse, financial abuse, divorce, etc.

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And I totally respect that message.

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I don't think you should have a secret account.

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I do think you should have an account that is yours only,

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but no secrets in our relationship.

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What about arguments as it relates to money and relationships?

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What are the cause of the arguments?

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Is it someone spending too much?

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Is it hiding money?

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Is it something else?

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It's usually not hiding money.

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That's very small extreme.

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The biggest phrase that I get from couples is,

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he or she's a spender and I'm a saver.

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So it's creating this identity that they're a spender,

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I'm a saver or they don't want to talk about money ever.

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Why can't I get them to finally sit down with me and get on the same page?

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That's a phrase that's tossed around everywhere.

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When I ask them what is getting on the same page?

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The answer is, I don't know, I just want to talk about it.

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So when it comes to money, yes, there are the numbers that we need to understand, of course.

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But what I often tell people, the way you feel about money

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is highly uncorrelated to the amount in your bank account.

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That is why I speak to so many multi-millionaires who still worry about money.

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They think if I just have 50,000 more, 500,000 more,

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5 million dollars more, well, guess what?

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I've had all those folks on my podcasts and they still worry about money.

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That means there's two things you need to do to master your relationship with money.

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One, you got to know your numbers.

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This is a language you have to learn the basics of personal finance.

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Two, you have to master your money psychology.

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That means you need to change the way that you talk about money and behave with money

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so that you can ultimately change the way you feel about money.

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You do those two things.

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You're going to have a very healthy relationship with money.

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Welcome into all of those things and how you do them.

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On this point of gender roles, obviously society has changed in the last couple of decades

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in terms of equality and more women are in work at higher level positions in corporations

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in the C-suite, earning much more money.

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This is caused a shift, I should say, in the sort of typical gender roles and assumptions of

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what each gender is supposed to be doing in couples.

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I'm wondering now with more women earning more money, in many cases,

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they're going to be earning more than their husband in heterosexual relationships.

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Have you seen new dynamics and new issues created because of this?

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In terms of insecure men feeling emasculated or the woman not being happy that she's

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contributing more?

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I asked this because I had some on my podcast a couple of months back who

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said to me that I think it's 70 or 80% of women expect that their romantic partner will earn

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more than them, but that gap is closing now because women are earning more and more money.

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I'm just wondering if you've seen in those couples scenarios where the woman earns more

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and it's causing problems.

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I've seen it all the time. I've seen it all the time.

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I think that we see different gendered dynamics.

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I recall one episode where I spoke to a young woman and her boyfriend.

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She was around 40 years old.

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She made way more than her boyfriend.

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Care to guess how much she makes per month.

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It's $20,000?

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$200,000 per month.

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She has a business. It's doing very well.

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She's around the age of 40.

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Now, her boyfriend was never taught about money when he was growing up.

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Most people are not.

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He never learned about investing.

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Certainly, no one was telling him about a Roth IRA when he was 12 years old.

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And he had started his own business.

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And he was on the upswing.

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He's making a few thousand dollars a month.

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Good for him.

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She's making 200 grand a month.

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Her parents started talking to her about investing when she was five years old.

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So here we already see a difference.

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Not just in gender, but in socioeconomic status.

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Okay.

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And over time, that progressed.

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So they come to me and she says,

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I want him to pay for dinner occasionally.

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Fine. Super reasonable.

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He even said, no problem.

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I want to.

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So he would take his credit card out and he would offer to pay.

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And she would say, no, I want you to contribute more to your IRA.

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So in many ways, she wanted him to pay.

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She wanted to feel taken care of, which is totally reasonable.

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But when he offered, she said, no.

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So this is the kind of thing that I often see, which is,

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I think I want one thing, but when I get that thing,

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I don't actually want it.

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It doesn't make me feel the way I thought it would.

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I want to earn 50k more.

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I think that'll make me feel safe.

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Oh my God, I am earning 50k more.

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It doesn't actually change the way I feel.

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So I worked with this couple and I helped them understand why they both

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felt this way about money.

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And you know, from the outside, it's like, this is so irrational.

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If you make more, just pay more.

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If I were in that situation, et cetera, et cetera.

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None of that stuff matters.

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When you are in the couple in that relationship,

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you will feel a certain way.

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And we got to work with you individually, not what everybody else says.

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In the end, the conclusion that they came to

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was she wanted him to occasionally pay for dinner,

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but she also wanted him to fill up his IRA.

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So this is what they did.

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Every so often before they went out to dinner,

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she would give him her credit card.

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And she would say, here, I want you to pay for tonight.

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And he said, cool, he understood it.

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They went out and that's what they did.

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Now to us sitting here, we're like, this dance makes no sense.

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Why don't they just do it this way or that way?

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Guess what?

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Every single one of us has some irrational thing we do with money.

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Every single one of us.

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And I think that we are ready to actually have conversations

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about how we are irrational.

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Money is not just dollars and cents on a page.

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That's why you don't feel good about money,

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even when you have more than you ever thought you would.

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That's why you worry about money,

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but you have never read a single book on personal finance.

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We are all irrational, including me.

250
00:11:58.160 --> 00:11:59.760
And when you get into a relationship,

251
00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:01.920
you got to acknowledge that.

252
00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:05.920
And then you get to say, hey, what is our vision of a rich life together?

253
00:12:05.920 --> 00:12:06.640
Let's build that.

254
00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.440
If it means we do a little dance about the credit card once every two months, fine.

255
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:12.560
Do we both feel good?

256
00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:13.120
Is it fair?

257
00:12:13.760 --> 00:12:14.560
Then I'm good with it.

258
00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:16.640
What's going on there with her?

259
00:12:16.640 --> 00:12:21.840
Because it sounds like there's this battle between her mind and maybe her heart.

260
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.320
Or it's almost like the social expectation is coming in,

261
00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:26.800
but then her brain is saying no, invest in the IRA.

262
00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:29.200
And an IRA for anyone that doesn't know in other parts.

263
00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:30.160
It's a retirement account.

264
00:12:30.160 --> 00:12:30.880
Every time it gets.

265
00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:32.880
So she's saying invest in the future, but also buy my dinner.

266
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:34.480
Well, it's a, it's a saint.

267
00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.360
We all have these things that society has told us.

268
00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:42.400
But then we don't quite agree and we're not sure what to do.

269
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:47.440
Last time I was here, we talked about how you don't necessarily need to buy a house

270
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:49.120
in order to live a rich life.

271
00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.720
And in my case, I have rented for the last 20 years by choice.

272
00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.240
And I made more money renting and investing the difference

273
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.640
than I would have by buying a house.

274
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:00.160
And this is shocking to people.

275
00:13:00.160 --> 00:13:01.680
Like we saw the comments last time.

276
00:13:01.680 --> 00:13:02.800
People went berserk.

277
00:13:03.280 --> 00:13:05.040
How can you talk about renting?

278
00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:06.800
You're just throwing money away on rent.

279
00:13:06.800 --> 00:13:11.360
And this is something we have been fed constantly for generations

280
00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:16.320
that in order to be successful, you must buy a house.

281
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.480
So when somebody like me comes around and says actually,

282
00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.960
you should run the numbers because sometimes renting can be better.

283
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:23.120
People are shocked.

284
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:27.760
Same thing with if you want to be taken care of or you want someone to treat you

285
00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:31.440
or you want someone to pay for the first date, same thing when men come

286
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.280
and they talk about being a provider.

287
00:13:34.160 --> 00:13:36.560
But in certain relationships where they actually earn less,

288
00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:41.360
I'll say to them, if we look at the numbers, you're not the provider.

289
00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:42.080
So who are you?

290
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:43.680
And they're stumped.

291
00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:48.960
And that is when we need to start grappling with the idea that maybe what we were told

292
00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.640
is not exactly true for us in our situation today.

293
00:13:52.640 --> 00:13:53.280
And that's okay.

294
00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:56.720
Do you think it causes more problems when the

295
00:13:57.920 --> 00:14:01.120
in terms of the relationship dynamics and that's sort of a miscalation?

296
00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:05.440
And the man not feeling like a provider when the woman earns more money than the man

297
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.240
from what you've seen?

298
00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:07.360
Not necessarily.

299
00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:11.600
I think that it is a different framework than we're used to.

300
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:13.680
Yeah, when we think about my parents, for example,

301
00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:14.960
my mom stayed home with us.

302
00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:18.640
My dad went to work, single earner, simple.

303
00:14:18.640 --> 00:14:21.440
Everybody knew where they stood, what the rules were.

304
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:22.240
It was very simple.

305
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:25.520
It's very difficult to do that today.

306
00:14:25.520 --> 00:14:27.200
Housing is historically expensive.

307
00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:30.400
Healthcare is expensive, especially in the U.S.

308
00:14:30.400 --> 00:14:35.200
And so you have two people earning in urban cities.

309
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.920
You have young women earning more than men in their 20s.

310
00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.760
A lot of us are trying to figure out what does this role mean for me

311
00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:45.840
and for my partner and for our relationship?

312
00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:46.960
That makes it tricky.

313
00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:49.840
I wonder if a lot of men are just choosing to remain single

314
00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:51.920
until they've kind of worked on themselves.

315
00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:54.560
Because I think actually that's probably the path I would have taken

316
00:14:54.560 --> 00:14:55.760
if I'm being completely honest.

317
00:14:55.760 --> 00:14:59.040
And what I kind of did take is I didn't have a relationship

318
00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:01.840
until I was able to really provide.

319
00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:03.840
Oh, the peward!

320
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.160
Yeah, and where did that word come from?

321
00:15:06.160 --> 00:15:06.880
Provide.

322
00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:09.520
Like watching my father, watching movies, everything.

323
00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:10.240
Exactly.

324
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:11.600
Yeah, no one ever says like,

325
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.440
you are a provider,

326
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:17.440
but we learn it from a million different perspectives.

327
00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:18.720
And yeah, I hear a lot of guys.

328
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.800
I mean, when I was living in New York

329
00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:22.000
and I had a lot of single friends,

330
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:24.640
topic of conversation was,

331
00:15:24.640 --> 00:15:25.680
I'm not ready to get married.

332
00:15:25.680 --> 00:15:28.560
I need to get to a certain point in my career first.

333
00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.080
We have all these words for it.

334
00:15:30.880 --> 00:15:32.720
And deep down,

335
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:35.680
there's a feeling that we're often expressing.

336
00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:37.280
You know, maybe I'm not ready.

337
00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:38.960
Maybe I'm not enough.

338
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:43.280
Maybe I need to do XYZ before I do the thing that I want.

339
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.480
And so part of what we talk about

340
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.160
when it comes to relationships and money is like,

341
00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:50.240
let's actually shine a light on that.

342
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:51.360
Let's not be shy about it.

343
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.080
If you want someone to pay for your dinner, fine.

344
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:55.040
That's totally fine.

345
00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:56.400
Let's have that conversation.

346
00:15:56.400 --> 00:15:59.840
If you want to be the sole earner in your household,

347
00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:01.760
okay, let's see what it would take.

348
00:16:01.760 --> 00:16:05.120
And too often we don't have those conversations.

349
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.040
We just dance around them for 50 years.

350
00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:08.560
Who should pay for the first date then?

351
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:10.400
My answer is,

352
00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:12.080
doesn't matter.

353
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.000
It would be nice if the person who suggested the date pays.

354
00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.440
But I think we spend way too much time focusing on the first date

355
00:16:20.160 --> 00:16:25.120
and way too little time thinking about the next 14,625 days.

356
00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:28.080
It's like a couple who's obsessed with the wedding.

357
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:30.640
Fine, you want a nice wedding, great.

358
00:16:30.640 --> 00:16:31.920
What about the marriage?

359
00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:33.600
Same thing with money.

360
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.000
First date, okay, we can have that conversation.

361
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.120
But aren't you more interested in how your partner

362
00:16:39.760 --> 00:16:41.840
thinks about money and talks about money?

363
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:43.200
Are they a cheap skate?

364
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:44.000
Are they generous?

365
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:44.720
Are they abundant?

366
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.480
Did they grow up the same or different than you?

367
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:48.960
That is something we don't talk about.

368
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.480
Meanwhile, we have 5 million YouTube videos on who's going to pay on the first date.

369
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:55.120
We are missing the real point.

370
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:59.120
The point of money in a relationship is not just about the first date.

371
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:00.240
That's fun for clicks.

372
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.760
But it's about, do we see money the same way?

373
00:17:03.760 --> 00:17:04.640
Do we connect?

374
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.800
Are we going to be rowing in the same direction?

375
00:17:06.800 --> 00:17:10.960
Or are you going to be doing that and I'm doing this and we can never get aligned?

376
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.480
You can only make a first impression once, right?

377
00:17:15.040 --> 00:17:18.000
And if you are a guy, this is just how I feel anyway.

378
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:20.560
If I go on a date, a first date with a woman,

379
00:17:21.120 --> 00:17:24.160
and we have a wonderful date, it's a nice restaurant,

380
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:25.760
and then it gets to the end of the day.

381
00:17:25.760 --> 00:17:28.800
And then I turn to her and say, should we split the bill?

382
00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:30.960
I couldn't even say it with a straight face, frankly.

383
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.000
I couldn't, I definitely couldn't ask her to pay.

384
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:36.480
I just could never.

385
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:39.520
And if I think if you anonymously polled

386
00:17:39.520 --> 00:17:43.280
ten of my female friends and said, how would you feel from the first date,

387
00:17:43.280 --> 00:17:47.200
the guy asked you to pay, I think privately they would say,

388
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.680
that's a bit of a turn off, that's a red flag, that's an ink.

389
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:51.200
I think probably that's true.

390
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.040
And again, goes to the power of socialization, right?

391
00:17:56.080 --> 00:17:58.160
Culture is very difficult to change.

392
00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:00.960
We got to admit that, we got to acknowledge that.

393
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.240
And when I was dating, I paid for dates.

394
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:05.600
So I don't have a problem with it.

395
00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:07.280
I like to be generous.

396
00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:09.360
I think that when you are in a relationship,

397
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.040
you like to know that your partner is generous too.

398
00:18:13.040 --> 00:18:14.320
Now, generous comes in lots of ways.

399
00:18:14.320 --> 00:18:15.680
It could be paying for dates.

400
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.840
It could be planning a trip.

401
00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:19.760
It could be being thoughtful and, you know,

402
00:18:19.760 --> 00:18:21.600
buying extra toothpaste because we're running low.

403
00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:23.360
There's so many different ways to be generous.

404
00:18:23.360 --> 00:18:26.400
But generosity for me would be a value.

405
00:18:27.280 --> 00:18:28.080
Paying for a date,

406
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.600
sure, I paid for dates, I'm happy to, I like to do it.

407
00:18:31.600 --> 00:18:35.280
But generosity to me is way more important to talk about that

408
00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:37.680
in a relationship versus the date itself.

409
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.120
Because chivalry, you know,

410
00:18:39.120 --> 00:18:41.120
this idea that the man is to lead

411
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.000
in that regard and, you know,

412
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.400
open the door and open the car door and pull out the chair.

413
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:49.280
Yeah, but think about it.

414
00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:50.160
I agree with all that stuff.

415
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:52.800
I support it.

416
00:18:52.800 --> 00:18:55.200
But think about what message that sends when you tell men,

417
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:56.800
you're supposed to be chivalrous.

418
00:18:56.800 --> 00:18:59.440
But there's no real context, no real teaching around it.

419
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:02.400
And let's say you have a 26 year old guy now

420
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.680
who's earning less than his girlfriend.

421
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.280
So he wants to be chivalrous.

422
00:19:08.080 --> 00:19:10.000
But for him, he's like,

423
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.120
we'll look at our bank accounts.

424
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.520
And so what I want to emphasize to people is

425
00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:14.560
you can be chivalrous.

426
00:19:14.560 --> 00:19:15.600
You can be generous.

427
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.560
Money is just a small part of that.

428
00:19:18.560 --> 00:19:22.880
Let's not overfixate on who's paying for tapas, okay?

429
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.200
And let's actually think about the important things.

430
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.160
When it comes to money,

431
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.640
we are so obsessed with $3 questions.

432
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:29.680
People are obsessing over,

433
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.440
should I buy this coffee?

434
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.280
Can I afford this appetizer?

435
00:19:33.280 --> 00:19:35.520
On and on and on about $3 questions.

436
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.440
We totally neglect the $30,000 questions.

437
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.360
Or the $300,000 questions.

438
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.400
Is this person financially aligned with me?

439
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:45.440
How do I even find out?

440
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:51.200
Am I investing 5% to 10% of take-home pay every month?

441
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:52.480
Are we doing it together?

442
00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:57.280
Do we talk about money regularly and proactively and positively?

443
00:19:57.840 --> 00:19:58.720
Those things matter.

444
00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:01.520
And there are actually worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

445
00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:02.880
These $3 questions,

446
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:04.640
including who's paying for appetizers,

447
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.160
or should I buy a latte?

448
00:20:06.800 --> 00:20:07.600
Irrelevant.

449
00:20:07.600 --> 00:20:11.200
In fact, get the big answers in life, right?

450
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.920
And you can buy all the appetizers you ever want.

451
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.480
What are the financial red flags in a relationship, then?

452
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.400
Number one is they don't want to talk about money.

453
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:20.480
If you don't want to talk about money,

454
00:20:21.040 --> 00:20:23.920
red flag, the biggest red flag of all.

455
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.800
Because we could differ on how we see money.

456
00:20:26.800 --> 00:20:29.440
We can even have different values for a few things.

457
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.560
But if your partner simply will not talk about money,

458
00:20:33.120 --> 00:20:34.960
you have a huge problem.

459
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:35.200
Why?

460
00:20:35.840 --> 00:20:37.440
If you can't talk about money,

461
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:39.600
then you can't even understand where they're coming from.

462
00:20:39.600 --> 00:20:42.480
And they are not curious about what you want.

463
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:46.400
So how are you ever going to get on the same page?

464
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:46.960
Think about this.

465
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:51.440
A lot of people think we need to have the conversation about money.

466
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.160
As if it's one conversation.

467
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.040
Would you have the conversation about raising kids?

468
00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:58.320
No.

469
00:20:58.320 --> 00:21:00.720
You'll have thousands in your life.

470
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:01.520
That's the way it should be.

471
00:21:02.320 --> 00:21:05.200
Money is very much like parenting.

472
00:21:05.840 --> 00:21:09.280
Not like should we play pickleball or tennis today?

473
00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:09.840
Irrelevant.

474
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.760
So we want to have lots of conversations about money.

475
00:21:13.760 --> 00:21:16.320
And that means we need to first of all be willing to talk about it.

476
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.120
And then we need to find a way to have fun doing it.

477
00:21:19.120 --> 00:21:20.000
Why don't we?

478
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:20.960
And who doesn't?

479
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:21.440
Is it man?

480
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.960
Is it women that don't do it more or who's not talking about money?

481
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:25.920
And why aren't they talking about it?

482
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:26.960
It's not about gender.

483
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.480
Couple has nothing to do with gender in terms of who does or doesn't talk about money.

484
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.400
There are avoiders.

485
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.160
That's one of four categories.

486
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:36.720
Money types that I've identified.

487
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:39.200
Avoiders hate talking about money.

488
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:42.960
And they will use a series of conscious and unconscious techniques

489
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:44.880
to avoid talking about money.

490
00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:46.560
They'll say things like,

491
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.160
why do you always have to talk about money?

492
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:51.840
Can't we just have a nice night out?

493
00:21:52.320 --> 00:21:56.080
Or you're so much better at this, you just handle it.

494
00:21:56.080 --> 00:21:58.640
You're just so much savvier at this stuff.

495
00:21:58.640 --> 00:21:59.440
That's an avoider.

496
00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:02.480
Do they know their own financial situation?

497
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.040
No.

498
00:22:03.040 --> 00:22:04.560
So they don't know their own financial situation

499
00:22:04.560 --> 00:22:05.680
and they don't want to talk about it.

500
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:05.920
Correct.

501
00:22:06.800 --> 00:22:08.800
And by the way, we all have something like this.

502
00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:10.240
It could be our fitness.

503
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.720
It could be our relationship with our parents.

504
00:22:12.800 --> 00:22:16.480
There's something in our life that we know we should deep down,

505
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:17.520
but we avoid it.

506
00:22:17.520 --> 00:22:17.840
Yeah.

507
00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.960
And there's no immediate consequence.

508
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.560
Like, if I don't call my college friend,

509
00:22:24.560 --> 00:22:25.120
it's fine.

510
00:22:25.120 --> 00:22:27.840
I could probably call him tomorrow and you can go on and on and on like that

511
00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:29.360
until one day you can't.

512
00:22:29.360 --> 00:22:30.720
Same thing with our fitness.

513
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.600
It's very easy to procrastinate on fitness or money

514
00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:36.400
because it's not like your house is being taken away

515
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:38.800
or even your cables being shut off.

516
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.760
They'll probably be fine until one day

517
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.320
you hit this brick wall and it's not.

518
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:47.200
So that's the avoider.

519
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:48.320
That's the first money time.

520
00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:48.800
Yeah.

521
00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:50.480
Next up, optimizer.

522
00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:53.520
I have a soft spot because I am an optimizer.

523
00:22:53.520 --> 00:22:56.880
Optimizers, we love to live in the spreadsheet.

524
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:58.880
It's like, let me sit and calculate this

525
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:01.040
and what if I run a compound interest calculation

526
00:23:01.040 --> 00:23:02.800
on Monte Carlo calculation?

527
00:23:02.800 --> 00:23:04.640
And what if we do this, but not that?

528
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.160
I love calculating everything.

529
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:11.440
And left alone, I would sit there and do that for the rest of my life.

530
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:11.760
Okay.

531
00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:13.760
The problem is you can take it a little too far.

532
00:23:14.320 --> 00:23:16.320
Now, I don't think I've taken it too far.

533
00:23:17.120 --> 00:23:19.520
I think I'm perfect on my spreadsheets,

534
00:23:19.520 --> 00:23:22.400
but my wife has taught me enough's enough.

535
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.360
We've won that part of life.

536
00:23:25.360 --> 00:23:27.040
Let's focus on another part.

537
00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:29.040
Connection and fun and experience.

538
00:23:29.040 --> 00:23:31.040
Have these people often thought of his boring?

539
00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:31.600
Yes.

540
00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:33.600
They are deep down.

541
00:23:33.600 --> 00:23:34.240
They are boring.

542
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.200
I was boring when I was sitting there thinking

543
00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:39.120
money is only about numbers.

544
00:23:39.120 --> 00:23:40.000
It's not.

545
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.680
Money is about adventure and possibility and generosity.

546
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:45.360
And you will often find optimizers.

547
00:23:45.360 --> 00:23:46.080
I'll give them a challenge.

548
00:23:46.080 --> 00:23:47.440
I'll give them a hundred dollar challenge.

549
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:49.200
I'll see you have to take a hundred dollars in the next week

550
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.640
and spend it on yourself.

551
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:52.240
They cannot do it.

552
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:53.920
They will spend it on their dog.

553
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:55.360
They'll spend it on their kid.

554
00:23:55.360 --> 00:23:56.320
They'll spend it on their partner,

555
00:23:56.320 --> 00:23:58.080
but they will not do it for themselves.

556
00:23:58.080 --> 00:23:59.200
And I go, why didn't you do it?

557
00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:00.880
They go, repeat.

558
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.600
Do you know that if you put a hundred dollars in a S&P 500

559
00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:05.760
and you compound that for the next 45 years?

560
00:24:05.760 --> 00:24:06.880
It'll turn into this much.

561
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:08.640
I go, I don't give a shit.

562
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:09.440
Spend the money.

563
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.360
Because money is not simply meant to be hoarded, right?

564
00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:15.360
It's meant to create a rich life.

565
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:17.840
And when you have optimizers,

566
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.520
the thing is they can get you to a very good place.

567
00:24:21.520 --> 00:24:23.840
They will probably have your account set up,

568
00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:24.640
dialed in.

569
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:25.920
They'll be investing.

570
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.720
Great.

571
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.760
They're going to be very proud.

572
00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:29.440
Look at the compound interest returns.

573
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:31.280
All that is fantastic.

574
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.520
But it can be taken too far.

575
00:24:33.520 --> 00:24:34.880
These are the people that die.

576
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.280
And then you figure out that they had like $9 million.

577
00:24:37.280 --> 00:24:38.640
Yeah, what a saving account.

578
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:39.280
What a waste.

579
00:24:39.280 --> 00:24:40.880
They never tasted the caveat, but they've got.

580
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:41.840
Yeah.

581
00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:44.080
Like people send these newspaper articles around like,

582
00:24:44.080 --> 00:24:48.080
oh, local librarian discovered to have $9 million.

583
00:24:48.080 --> 00:24:50.000
And I go, what a tragedy.

584
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.720
What a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to.

585
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:54.320
I want you to save.

586
00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:55.520
I want you to invest,

587
00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:58.080
but I also want you to try a nice meal.

588
00:24:58.080 --> 00:25:01.360
Or if you don't like nice food or you don't want a nice t-shirt,

589
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:05.680
also find get super generous, give that money,

590
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:08.320
surprise the people around you, tip 50%.

591
00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:10.000
So those are optimizers.

592
00:25:10.800 --> 00:25:12.720
The third category is worriers.

593
00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:14.640
They love to worry.

594
00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:18.160
Typically they picked up worrying from their parents,

595
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:18.880
almost always.

596
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.320
And their entire relationship with money is worrying.

597
00:25:23.360 --> 00:25:24.240
Are we going to have enough?

598
00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:26.080
What if we run out of money?

599
00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:28.720
What if we don't have enough to pay at the gas station?

600
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:32.240
And oftentimes it's very surprising because I told you that

601
00:25:33.040 --> 00:25:35.680
50% of couples don't know how much they make, right?

602
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:38.080
So they'll say like, we need more.

603
00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:39.280
We don't have enough right now.

604
00:25:39.280 --> 00:25:41.440
And I'll ask them, how much do you think you make?

605
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.760
This just happened a couple of weeks ago in a podcast episode.

606
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.000
They thought they made around $70,000 a year, okay?

607
00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:50.320
We add up all their stuff.

608
00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:52.400
They make $120,000 a year.

609
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:54.160
So I go, well, here you go.

610
00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:56.800
You wanted to make an extra 40k.

611
00:25:56.800 --> 00:25:59.200
You actually make 50k more than you thought.

612
00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:01.280
Do you feel any better?

613
00:26:01.280 --> 00:26:03.360
And she goes, no.

614
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:09.200
Because the way you feel about money is highly uncorrelated to the amount

615
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:10.400
in your bank account.

616
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:12.400
So worriers worry.

617
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:13.440
That's how they relate.

618
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.360
They can't imagine any other relationship to money.

619
00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:19.440
And my job is to help them realize.

620
00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:22.400
First of all, let's actually look at your numbers.

621
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.560
Let me help you understand what it means.

622
00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:25.360
Do you have enough?

623
00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:26.560
What does it take to have enough?

624
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.960
And then can you start to develop a new relationship with money?

625
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.360
It's almost like a new taste bud.

626
00:26:33.360 --> 00:26:36.640
I'm never going to tell you to eat tomatoes if you hate tomatoes.

627
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.520
But I am going to teach you maybe you like okra.

628
00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:41.120
And we can develop a new taste for that.

629
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:43.760
Finally, the dreamer.

630
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:50.080
The dreamer believes that success is one deal away.

631
00:26:50.080 --> 00:26:52.720
If we just close this deal, if I just get this thing,

632
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.760
and they tend to fall into get rich quick schemes, lots of scams,

633
00:26:57.760 --> 00:27:02.080
MLMs, a lot of crypto shit coin scams, like all this BS.

634
00:27:03.360 --> 00:27:10.240
But they are extremely resistant to calm, low cost long-term investing.

635
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:12.720
In other words, the way that most people build real wealth.

636
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.760
They think it's boring.

637
00:27:13.760 --> 00:27:15.280
They even have little phrases like,

638
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:18.560
I don't want to be stuck in a nine to five like those suckers.

639
00:27:18.560 --> 00:27:20.320
I'm like, that sucker makes ten times what you make.

640
00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:21.600
What are you talking about?

641
00:27:21.600 --> 00:27:24.800
But they have simply been surrounded with the idea.

642
00:27:24.800 --> 00:27:28.240
One more deal, and I'll finally make it.

643
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:29.840
They must be hard to be married to.

644
00:27:29.840 --> 00:27:32.000
It's impossible. It's really, really difficult.

645
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.440
Not only do they not want to talk about money.

646
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:37.440
When they finally do talk about money,

647
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.280
they're almost living in a different world.

648
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.480
Often you will find that dreamers can only dream

649
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.840
because they are being subsidized by someone in their life.

650
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.040
Usually, they're a partner.

651
00:27:47.040 --> 00:27:49.520
And if their partner were to leave, for example,

652
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.080
the house of cards would collapse.

653
00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:57.040
And actually, that's usually the only thing that gets them to truly change.

654
00:27:57.040 --> 00:27:58.960
So if we've got these four money types,

655
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.640
the avoid the optimizer, the worry of the dreamer,

656
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:05.280
in your view, who lives a happier life?

657
00:28:07.120 --> 00:28:09.200
You can live a happy life with any of these.

658
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.360
Also, you can change any of these types.

659
00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:14.240
But on average, one person is going to probably live in the living.

660
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:16.320
I'm the optimizer, and I'm pretty happy.

661
00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:17.600
So is that the answer?

662
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:19.920
Optimizers are great.

663
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:21.120
They love their spreadsheet.

664
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.920
I think that the worry clearly is not going to live the happiest life.

665
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:27.760
The dreamer is actually quite happy.

666
00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:29.280
Yeah, the dreamer's quite happy.

667
00:28:29.280 --> 00:28:30.080
They live in optimism.

668
00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:31.840
Yeah, they're living in a world that's not real.

669
00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:33.440
It's subsidized by somebody else.

670
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.920
They're always optimistic about what's going to happen next week, next month, next year,

671
00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:42.640
never realizing the catastrophe that they are leaving behind them.

672
00:28:43.600 --> 00:28:44.400
That's the whole issue.

673
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.200
The reason I wrote the book is it's one thing to

674
00:28:47.840 --> 00:28:51.200
treat money in a certain way on your own when you're single.

675
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:52.640
You can be irresponsible.

676
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:54.880
You can be an optimizer.

677
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:58.080
But when you're in a relationship, it's not about you anymore.

678
00:28:58.080 --> 00:29:00.160
It's about the two of you as a unit.

679
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.040
And so you have to deeply understand yourself,

680
00:29:03.600 --> 00:29:06.720
and then you have to be willing to communicate with your partner,

681
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:09.840
and really create a rich life vision for the two of you.

682
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.760
Most couples I talk to have no vision for their money.

683
00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:16.480
That's why they fight over who spent $50 a target.

684
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:18.240
I go, who gives a shit about target?

685
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.840
Financial problems are almost never about overspending at target.

686
00:29:21.840 --> 00:29:26.240
The biggest problem with couples and money is they have no rich life vision.

687
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.480
What is money to us?

688
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.720
What do we want to use money for?

689
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:32.720
How do we want to feel about it?

690
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:37.200
So they're confronted with a thousand different decisions with their money every week.

691
00:29:37.520 --> 00:29:39.600
And they have no vision to guide them.

692
00:29:39.600 --> 00:29:41.200
This is for us. This is not for us.

693
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:44.400
One of the things I've always wanted in relationships is

694
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:52.000
how many couples know how much money the other couple has in their savings account in their total

695
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.760
investment portfolio?

696
00:29:53.760 --> 00:29:58.000
Because I've never been in a relationship where, I mean, I've really really been in two

697
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.080
relationships, you could say, but I've been with, you know,

698
00:30:00.080 --> 00:30:04.080
dated people over the years, been with my current partner for many, many, many years.

699
00:30:04.320 --> 00:30:06.320
But even my current partner has no idea how much money I have.

700
00:30:06.320 --> 00:30:07.040
Hmm.

701
00:30:07.040 --> 00:30:07.440
Zero.

702
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.040
When will you have that conversation?

703
00:30:09.040 --> 00:30:09.840
Probably never.

704
00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:11.120
Should we bring him out right now?

705
00:30:11.120 --> 00:30:12.000
Let's bring him out.

706
00:30:13.760 --> 00:30:15.280
I've just never had the conversation.

707
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.080
If we, if you need something, we can get it.

708
00:30:18.080 --> 00:30:18.560
Yeah.

709
00:30:18.560 --> 00:30:20.960
And it's just always been like that in my life.

710
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:24.320
Okay, so I made a mistake in my own relationship.

711
00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:28.000
I was dating my now wife for many years.

712
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.320
And at one point, she had asked some question about her 401k or something.

713
00:30:32.320 --> 00:30:35.920
And I said, well, there is a book called, I will teach you to be rich.

714
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:36.880
Here's a copy of it.

715
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.080
And I was joking around with her.

716
00:30:38.080 --> 00:30:41.920
And so it, I ended up learning all about her finances.

717
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:48.160
So I knew about her entire financial picture didn't occur to me to talk about my own.

718
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:55.200
And a little while later, she, she very assertively said, this doesn't feel fair.

719
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.160
You know everything about my finances, but I don't know about yours.

720
00:30:58.800 --> 00:31:03.920
And I realized I violated my own rule in chapter nine of my first book,

721
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.520
which is talk about money early on, talk about it regularly.

722
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.120
So we talked about it.

723
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:15.360
We talked about is actually one of the most memorable conversations we had.

724
00:31:15.360 --> 00:31:22.400
Because talked about the numbers, talked about my pride in how hard I had worked to build my

725
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:30.240
business and invest for 20 years, 25 years, and then we talked about what it meant for us.

726
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.240
Like, what kind of life do we want to have?

727
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:33.360
Do we want to live here?

728
00:31:33.360 --> 00:31:34.560
Do we want to live there?

729
00:31:34.560 --> 00:31:35.760
Do we want to have kids?

730
00:31:35.760 --> 00:31:37.680
Do we want to eat this type of food?

731
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:45.120
Travel, like that conversation about possibility is the conversation I want every couple to have.

732
00:31:45.120 --> 00:31:48.800
Because it's about possibility and you can start to dream.

733
00:31:49.520 --> 00:31:51.120
And that dream is important.

734
00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:52.560
You can get to the logistics.

735
00:31:52.560 --> 00:31:53.360
Of course.

736
00:31:53.360 --> 00:31:54.080
We'll get to that.

737
00:31:54.800 --> 00:31:59.440
But so few of us still dream with our money.

738
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:05.360
But I think for someone like you who is the optimizer, and he's probably quite

739
00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:06.800
proud of the system you've created.

740
00:32:06.800 --> 00:32:08.080
I love those systems.

741
00:32:08.080 --> 00:32:11.760
But there's going to be so many people listening now that are in a relationship.

742
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.520
And they are maybe early in the dating process.

743
00:32:16.320 --> 00:32:18.320
And maybe they've been with the person six months.

744
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.800
They've taken them out on lots of nice dates.

745
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:23.920
And they have $1,000 in their savings account.

746
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:26.240
And their partner has no idea.

747
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:27.440
And they're thinking,

748
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:30.640
if I tell my partner what's in this bank account,

749
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.520
she is going to be shocked or he is going to be shocked.

750
00:32:33.520 --> 00:32:35.280
And they are going to leave me.

751
00:32:35.280 --> 00:32:39.520
So I'm keeping this a secret because they are living under an illusion.

752
00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:42.880
Then I have more than I actually have.

753
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:48.080
But remember this, just because you don't have as much money as you want,

754
00:32:48.080 --> 00:32:50.080
doesn't mean that you are less of a person.

755
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:51.680
What could be more?

756
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:52.480
I completely agree.

757
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:53.680
Yeah, I completely agree.

758
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:57.440
What could be more appealing than saying, you know what?

759
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.680
Would you be open to talk about our finances?

760
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.200
We're getting a little bit serious.

761
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.160
You know, I know we're kind of talking about taking the next step.

762
00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:09.520
I think money is going to be an important part of it.

763
00:33:09.520 --> 00:33:10.480
I know it is for me.

764
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.560
And I wonder if we could sit down and talk about it.

765
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.120
First, just being proactive.

766
00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:17.440
How many people watching and listening are like,

767
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.320
I wish my partner, whether they're dating or my partner of 20 years,

768
00:33:22.320 --> 00:33:23.280
would come to me and say,

769
00:33:23.840 --> 00:33:25.360
can we sit down and talk about money?

770
00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:29.040
But the part of that is shameful about their financial situation.

771
00:33:29.040 --> 00:33:29.520
Yes.

772
00:33:29.520 --> 00:33:32.400
If I run it back 10 years, just over 10 years ago,

773
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:35.440
I was living in an area called Rush Home.

774
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:40.240
I was in a shared house with,

775
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:45.040
living with some few people who had come to the UK legally.

776
00:33:45.040 --> 00:33:45.280
Okay.

777
00:33:46.320 --> 00:33:48.400
I didn't have a carpet in my room.

778
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:49.280
I was in a single bed.

779
00:33:49.280 --> 00:33:51.600
I didn't have duves or bed sheets or anything.

780
00:33:51.600 --> 00:33:54.080
And every day, I woke up and thought to myself,

781
00:33:54.800 --> 00:33:55.840
how am I going to eat today?

782
00:33:55.840 --> 00:33:57.920
So I'd find different ways to find food.

783
00:33:57.920 --> 00:33:59.680
At the same time, I was dating this girl called Ruby.

784
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.000
This girl called Ruby had no idea.

785
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:03.200
She'd never seen where I lived.

786
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.880
She wasn't aware that I was looking behind sofas

787
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:08.240
in takeaways for pound coins.

788
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:12.800
There is no possibility in the world that if I would have ever told Ruby,

789
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:14.400
the financial situation I was in.

790
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:17.440
So I don't know what to do in that situation.

791
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.640
And I'm sure I'm sure I would assert that maybe 30% of people

792
00:34:22.640 --> 00:34:25.280
listening right now don't want to tell their partner

793
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.160
their financial situation because they're deeply embarrassed or shameful

794
00:34:28.160 --> 00:34:32.320
to the point that they think their partner might leave like them less,

795
00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:35.040
be less attracted to them if they really knew the truth.

796
00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:35.760
I totally agree.

797
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:37.200
I totally agree.

798
00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:41.040
It's crazy how much shame we have around money.

799
00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:44.080
And it's a young guy not having enough.

800
00:34:44.640 --> 00:34:50.000
It's a young woman who has $18,000 of credit card debt.

801
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:51.920
It's all over the spectrum.

802
00:34:52.560 --> 00:34:54.240
That's the second point, which is

803
00:34:56.160 --> 00:34:58.800
if you want to talk about money, talk about money.

804
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:00.320
Don't wait for your partner to do it.

805
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:03.600
Bring it up yourself even if you feel embarrassed or ashamed.

806
00:35:04.160 --> 00:35:06.320
If you're planning to make a life with this partner,

807
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.080
you've got to be able to talk about this because you're going to be talking about a lot

808
00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:12.960
of other personal sensitive things over the course of your life.

809
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:16.480
The second thing is what could be more attractive than somebody saying,

810
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.000
you know, when I was in my 20s,

811
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:20.800
I moved to the city.

812
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.800
I spent a lot of money going out and I wasn't super responsible.

813
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:26.320
I racked up a lot of credit card debt.

814
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:30.880
I've paid it down from $18,000 to $6,000.

815
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:35.360
It's going to be paid off next year and I just know that I'm never going back there again.

816
00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:41.520
Oh my God, someone who acknowledges what they did has a good reason for it.

817
00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:44.720
And then most importantly has a plan, huge turn on.

818
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:50.000
So what I'm begging all of us to do is to realize just because you have more or less money

819
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.840
does not make you a better or worse person.

820
00:35:52.720 --> 00:35:57.360
I want to take shame away because we all have something that we are ashamed of.

821
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:01.440
But not talking about it and putting it in the corner in the darkness.

822
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:02.480
That doesn't solve it.

823
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.480
That's why I love talking about the most taboo of taboo subjects.

824
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.360
Money, gender, prenups, dating.

825
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:11.920
These are things that nobody's talking about.

826
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:16.880
So when you hear couples on the podcast and they're talking about being married for 15 years

827
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.680
and they've never actually had one conversation about money,

828
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.440
I want you and everyone watching to be inspired because

829
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.040
stuff doesn't have to be shameful and doesn't have to be kept in the dark.

830
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.280
And what do you think about prenups then?

831
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.760
Do you think they are a good thing for all couples?

832
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:33.600
Do you think all couples should initiate a prenup?

833
00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:35.040
No, no, not all couples.

834
00:36:35.040 --> 00:36:36.480
There are some couples who should have one.

835
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:37.520
My wife and I have one.

836
00:36:37.520 --> 00:36:44.000
So we went through this process and who should get a prenup is if one or both partners

837
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:48.720
are bringing substantial pre-marital assets to the marriage.

838
00:36:48.720 --> 00:36:52.960
Meaning before they get married, they have a large investment portfolio,

839
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.240
a business, rental property, or a house.

840
00:36:56.240 --> 00:36:59.680
Like, you should have a prenup, but most people should not.

841
00:36:59.680 --> 00:37:03.520
Because when most people get married, they don't have substantial assets.

842
00:37:03.520 --> 00:37:04.480
What if your partner turns around?

843
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:05.520
If I turn to my partner, I say,

844
00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:07.760
Babe, Remi's told me to go get a prenup.

845
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:08.240
Yeah.

846
00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:10.160
And she goes, absolutely not.

847
00:37:10.160 --> 00:37:11.520
Well, that's not a good introduction.

848
00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:12.080
I wouldn't say that.

849
00:37:12.080 --> 00:37:13.600
Although I don't mind if you throw me under the bus.

850
00:37:13.600 --> 00:37:16.080
Oh, this guy, Remi, he said this thing, fine.

851
00:37:17.120 --> 00:37:19.600
How to bring it up is an art.

852
00:37:19.680 --> 00:37:22.240
So when I was deciding on a prenup,

853
00:37:22.240 --> 00:37:25.360
I asked for lots of advice from lots of friends.

854
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:30.080
And some of the advice out there, especially online, is not great.

855
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.720
One of the most common pieces of advice is blame it on your lawyer.

856
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:37.520
I'm like, get real.

857
00:37:37.520 --> 00:37:39.760
You're about to build a life with your partner.

858
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:41.840
And you can't be honest about this thing.

859
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.160
This in the grand scheme is a minor topic.

860
00:37:44.160 --> 00:37:47.840
So I'll tell you exactly what I said to my wife.

861
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:54.880
We sat down and I said, I want to talk to you about something.

862
00:37:56.560 --> 00:38:00.560
You know that because of how long I've been in business,

863
00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:01.600
I've been very lucky.

864
00:38:01.600 --> 00:38:02.400
I've been fortunate.

865
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:03.280
I worked hard.

866
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:04.640
I've built this business up.

867
00:38:04.640 --> 00:38:07.280
And I'm really proud of what I've accomplished and saved.

868
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.840
And you also know my lifestyle.

869
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.920
I don't drive around in a Lamborghini.

870
00:38:12.720 --> 00:38:13.520
I like to travel.

871
00:38:13.520 --> 00:38:16.160
I like to wear nice clothes and I like to save money.

872
00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:19.920
And it's important to me that as we are

873
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:23.600
getting closer in our relationship to getting married,

874
00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:24.880
that we talk about a prenup.

875
00:38:26.160 --> 00:38:27.920
And my heart was pounding.

876
00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:29.680
I had planned it.

877
00:38:29.680 --> 00:38:30.640
I had thought about it.

878
00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:31.920
I had talked to so many people.

879
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.760
What I knew is I wanted to take responsibility.

880
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.120
It's not some lawyer that wants it.

881
00:38:37.120 --> 00:38:37.840
It's me.

882
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:38.720
It's important to me.

883
00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:41.280
I wanted to bring up the topic.

884
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:45.280
And I wanted to reassure my wife that

885
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.200
I'm not going to change overnight when we get married

886
00:38:49.200 --> 00:38:51.520
into someone who's blowing all of our money.

887
00:38:51.520 --> 00:38:54.640
It's just important because of the business that I built.

888
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.040
In her response, I was like,

889
00:38:58.720 --> 00:38:59.840
like, how is she going to respond?

890
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:01.440
Because bringing up a prenup is very fraught.

891
00:39:02.640 --> 00:39:03.760
She's the best.

892
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:06.480
She said, okay, I wasn't expecting that.

893
00:39:07.040 --> 00:39:09.440
But I'm willing to learn more about it.

894
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:12.640
That's as good of a response as I could have hoped.

895
00:39:12.640 --> 00:39:15.200
So we started the series of conversations.

896
00:39:15.200 --> 00:39:16.240
We both had lawyers.

897
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.760
It was going well at first until it wasn't.

898
00:39:20.240 --> 00:39:24.080
And we were talking about numbers that to me seemed astronomical.

899
00:39:24.640 --> 00:39:26.320
I started to feel resentful.

900
00:39:27.040 --> 00:39:28.720
She didn't feel listened to.

901
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.720
She didn't feel heard.

902
00:39:30.720 --> 00:39:32.400
She started to feel resentful.

903
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:35.840
And these conversations were like so difficult.

904
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.560
I would say there were some of the most difficult conversations of our relationship.

905
00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:41.840
At one point, she said we should go see a therapist

906
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:44.320
because these conversations are not good.

907
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:46.080
And I was like, you're right.

908
00:39:46.080 --> 00:39:47.360
So we went to see a therapist.

909
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:48.560
We sat in that therapist's office.

910
00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:49.280
I still remember.

911
00:39:50.080 --> 00:39:51.600
Therapist asked us a bunch of questions,

912
00:39:51.600 --> 00:39:54.000
including, how do you see money?

913
00:39:54.560 --> 00:39:55.680
And she turned to me.

914
00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:57.680
I was like, how do I see money?

915
00:39:57.680 --> 00:39:58.560
Growth.

916
00:39:58.560 --> 00:40:01.840
I could literally see numbers floating in front of my eyes.

917
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:04.720
The optimizer in me was talking about the rule of 72.

918
00:40:04.720 --> 00:40:05.840
It was like so obvious.

919
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:06.880
What an obvious question.

920
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.360
Then she turns to my wife, how do you see money?

921
00:40:10.240 --> 00:40:11.920
And she said, safety.

922
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:14.640
I said, what?

923
00:40:14.640 --> 00:40:16.320
Safety.

924
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.320
To me, that was like saying charcoal.

925
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:20.160
Like the two words don't relate at all.

926
00:40:21.600 --> 00:40:27.840
But it started us on a new path of realizing that we were seeing money completely differently.

927
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:32.800
And that was exactly when I realized I wish there were other couples talking about money

928
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:34.400
from behind closed doors.

929
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:38.640
That exactly was the genesis of me doing my podcast and my Netflix show.

930
00:40:38.720 --> 00:40:43.600
To show people, not just tell them, but to show them how real couples deal with money.

931
00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:46.240
What was the resistance between you two?

932
00:40:47.200 --> 00:40:53.040
In so more specific terms, she wanted a different arrangement to the one that you wanted.

933
00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:55.760
Yeah, the terms are super technical in prenups.

934
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.200
So with a prenup, you have a variety of different

935
00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:05.280
rules or technicalities, which would be like, what if you separate in six months?

936
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:11.200
What if you separate in 25 years, but there are children involved who gets the house?

937
00:41:11.200 --> 00:41:12.080
What if you have a house?

938
00:41:12.080 --> 00:41:13.600
What if you have two houses?

939
00:41:13.600 --> 00:41:16.480
What if you have this much in your joint investment,

940
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:18.960
but each of you has this much in individual investment?

941
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.480
And so what happens is it's not even just the numbers themselves.

942
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.040
It's the fact that the process is set up to be adversarial.

943
00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:28.240
So they have a lawyer.

944
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:29.840
We have a lawyer.

945
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:33.280
We're communicating through lawyers when it comes to this topic.

946
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:37.200
When normally you're just talking to your fiance or your girlfriend.

947
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:41.600
And there's an art to also managing the lawyers.

948
00:41:41.600 --> 00:41:44.960
See, the lawyers want, there's nothing but we had great lawyers.

949
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:46.080
I'm happy with them.

950
00:41:46.080 --> 00:41:50.240
But lawyers' job is to look over every freaking contingency

951
00:41:50.240 --> 00:41:52.480
and make sure that nothing is left a chance.

952
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:56.000
And I think a good reminder for anyone considering our prenup is to remember

953
00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:59.360
you manage your lawyers and your job is to come to an agreement

954
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:01.360
with your partner for the rest of your life.

955
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:02.800
So sometimes you can be generous.

956
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:04.880
You can be willing to let up on a few things here and there.

957
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:07.200
As long as you are looking at the North Star,

958
00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:08.240
we're going to be together.

959
00:42:08.240 --> 00:42:10.720
You want these premarital assets to be protected.

960
00:42:10.720 --> 00:42:11.920
And in case something goes wrong,

961
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:14.320
we both want to feel good about what the arrangement is.

962
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:18.320
And there is a 68% chance that you will break up

963
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:19.760
if you look at the marriage statistics.

964
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:21.360
Well, those statistics are a little skewed.

965
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.800
That includes second marriages.

966
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:25.520
That also includes all different socioeconomic,

967
00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:26.560
all everybody else.

968
00:42:26.560 --> 00:42:28.160
If you break it down, for example,

969
00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:31.200
just by having a bachelor's degree or certainly an advanced degree,

970
00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:34.240
that goes way down, first marriage goes down.

971
00:42:34.240 --> 00:42:37.680
And in fact, the divorce rate has been decreasing for decades.

972
00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:40.560
So this 50-60% thing that's kind of tossed around,

973
00:42:40.560 --> 00:42:42.240
not quite accurate.

974
00:42:42.240 --> 00:42:45.680
But whatever the statistic is, what's more important is,

975
00:42:46.640 --> 00:42:50.480
if you should always think about how can things go right

976
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.080
and also how can they go wrong.

977
00:42:52.080 --> 00:42:53.680
And I think with money a lot of times,

978
00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:56.080
we only think about one or the other.

979
00:42:56.080 --> 00:42:58.880
We buy a house, never asking ourselves like,

980
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:00.720
what if one of us loses our job?

981
00:43:00.720 --> 00:43:03.120
And we get married without ever asking like,

982
00:43:03.120 --> 00:43:05.120
what if we separate?

983
00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:06.880
So you want to be able to play both.

984
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:08.320
What happens if things go right?

985
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:09.760
Incredibly right.

986
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:11.120
And what happens if things go wrong?

987
00:43:11.120 --> 00:43:12.240
Let's make a plan.

988
00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:13.920
What are the other red flags then?

989
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.560
We mentioned the first being they don't want to talk about money.

990
00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:19.440
They have a money guy.

991
00:43:20.560 --> 00:43:22.240
A money guy is so common.

992
00:43:22.240 --> 00:43:24.000
Everybody talks about, oh, I have this money guy.

993
00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:27.840
Your money guy is probably a whole life insurance salesman

994
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.000
charging you 1.25% AUM.

995
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:31.040
Let me explain what that means.

996
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:37.520
So many people in America do not want to learn the basics of money.

997
00:43:37.520 --> 00:43:40.240
And so they hire a financial advisor.

998
00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:43.440
Now, I don't have anything against financial advisors in general.

999
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:46.000
But a money guy that they're typically referring to

1000
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.680
is someone who charges them a percentage of their assets.

1001
00:43:49.680 --> 00:43:53.600
So if I have a $100,000 portfolio they'll charge,

1002
00:43:53.600 --> 00:43:55.360
or let's say a million dollar portfolio,

1003
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:56.880
I might be paying 1%.

1004
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:58.480
Now, 1% doesn't sound like a lot.

1005
00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:03.280
But if you actually run the math, you will pay about 28%

1006
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:07.200
of your lifetime investment returns in fees.

1007
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:10.320
That's not $10 or $100.

1008
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.920
That's tens of thousands or sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars.

1009
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:16.480
So it's a red flag if someone has an advisor

1010
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:19.440
that they're paying a percentage-based fee to.

1011
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:22.480
I would much rather you pay an hourly or project

1012
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:24.240
or that type of fee to.

1013
00:44:27.120 --> 00:44:27.760
They're cheap.

1014
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:31.840
I can help a lot of people, but I can't help cheap.

1015
00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:38.640
Cheap is cost is the first and last thing they always consider.

1016
00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:41.040
So you might come home, you're so happy.

1017
00:44:41.040 --> 00:44:43.200
Oh my gosh, look at this beautiful thing I got for the kids.

1018
00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:44.960
How much was that?

1019
00:44:45.600 --> 00:44:48.240
And it just sucks the life out of every room.

1020
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.040
Cheap people are obsessed with cost.

1021
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:56.080
Cheap people rarely recognize the effect they are having on their loved ones.

1022
00:44:56.080 --> 00:45:00.080
And cheap people find it very, very difficult to change.

1023
00:45:00.720 --> 00:45:02.160
They don't want to change.

1024
00:45:02.160 --> 00:45:06.560
They actually reinterpret their behavior and call it a virtue.

1025
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:08.480
Oh, I'm not that.

1026
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:09.840
I don't need that fancy wine.

1027
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:11.520
I'm perfectly happy with this.

1028
00:45:11.520 --> 00:45:13.440
What if your partner wants one glass of wine?

1029
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:15.840
Based on like a miserable group.

1030
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:18.000
Yeah, I don't like cheap people.

1031
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:18.800
I don't like cheap people.

1032
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:20.080
I don't like cheap tippers.

1033
00:45:20.080 --> 00:45:21.440
And their partners don't like them.

1034
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.720
So it's one, I'm not saying everybody has to go out and spend a million dollars,

1035
00:45:24.720 --> 00:45:28.160
but you got to use money to live your rich life.

1036
00:45:28.160 --> 00:45:30.560
The point of money is not to just hoard it and save it.

1037
00:45:30.560 --> 00:45:33.440
That's why when you create a rich life vision, you ask yourself,

1038
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:37.680
what do we want to spend extravagantly on?

1039
00:45:37.680 --> 00:45:39.920
Not just a little bit, but extravagantly.

1040
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.720
And what do we want to cut costs mercilessly on?

1041
00:45:43.200 --> 00:45:46.240
You have to be able to play different notes like you're in a symphony.

1042
00:45:46.240 --> 00:45:51.680
If your only note is spend less, that's a miserable existence.

1043
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:53.760
Are there any more red flags?

1044
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:58.080
I want to go into why people and where they develop these relationships with money.

1045
00:45:58.080 --> 00:46:00.880
But are there any other sort of standout red flags that we should be looking for?

1046
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:04.800
Well, if they follow Robert Kiyosaki, that's a huge fucking red flag.

1047
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:09.440
I mean, the guy once Robert Kiyosaki wrote this well-known personal finance book

1048
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:11.680
and the guy has really lost it in the last few years.

1049
00:46:11.680 --> 00:46:13.120
He literally, I'm not joking.

1050
00:46:13.120 --> 00:46:16.800
He literally told people the best investment you can have is a can of tuna.

1051
00:46:18.080 --> 00:46:18.800
I'm not joking.

1052
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:23.440
And I replied to him, Robert, I sold everything in my portfolio

1053
00:46:23.520 --> 00:46:25.360
and bought three million cans of tuna.

1054
00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:27.360
Is this a good investment?

1055
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:29.120
But sadly, I never heard back.

1056
00:46:29.120 --> 00:46:32.160
So beware of charlatans.

1057
00:46:32.160 --> 00:46:33.440
Let me put it that way.

1058
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:38.000
Personal finance and money is filled with people who will promise you get rich quick,

1059
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.560
who will tell you that the sky is falling.

1060
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:45.040
And when it comes to money, we want to be balanced.

1061
00:46:45.040 --> 00:46:46.160
We want to have fun.

1062
00:46:46.160 --> 00:46:48.640
We want to have a healthy relationship with money.

1063
00:46:48.640 --> 00:46:50.000
It's very similar to fitness.

1064
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:51.440
Lots of people making promises.

1065
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:55.680
You want to find the people who are giving you long-term advice.

1066
00:46:55.680 --> 00:46:57.520
You know these cheap people that you mentioned.

1067
00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:59.600
You know any of them?

1068
00:46:59.600 --> 00:47:00.960
A couple come to mind.

1069
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:03.040
Tell the camera who they are right now so you know.

1070
00:47:03.040 --> 00:47:04.000
Who are these cheap people?

1071
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.800
They also fit into the category of the warriors in my experience.

1072
00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:10.400
So someone who's a bit of a warrior can also be quite cheap.

1073
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:11.440
And I was just wondering,

1074
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:13.840
the hundreds of couples that you've sat down with and interviewed,

1075
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.520
does there tend to be a origin story,

1076
00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:23.360
which links to the frugalness we have in the penny-pinching?

1077
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:24.080
Yes.

1078
00:47:24.080 --> 00:47:26.640
Okay, always when I talk to people,

1079
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:28.640
I ask them,

1080
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:33.680
what do you remember your parents saying about money when you grew up?

1081
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:34.800
Always.

1082
00:47:35.520 --> 00:47:36.640
And they'll tell me.

1083
00:47:36.640 --> 00:47:37.920
They are very conversant.

1084
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:38.560
They remember.

1085
00:47:39.120 --> 00:47:42.560
And usually the parents said stuff like we can't afford it.

1086
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:45.360
And money doesn't grow on trees.

1087
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.440
We don't talk about money in this family.

1088
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:48.800
These are the type of things that people said.

1089
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:53.120
But you will often find usually when kids are teenagers,

1090
00:47:54.080 --> 00:47:56.240
when there's something really tragic that happens.

1091
00:47:56.240 --> 00:47:59.600
And it's often that dad lost his job.

1092
00:48:00.160 --> 00:48:03.440
And that meant that they completely changed socio-economically.

1093
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:04.640
Often they had a big house.

1094
00:48:04.640 --> 00:48:07.360
They had to really like shift into grandma's apartment.

1095
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:08.000
That kind of thing.

1096
00:48:08.560 --> 00:48:10.960
That affects people in a huge way.

1097
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:12.960
Now it affects people in one of two ways.

1098
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.440
And you cannot predict how.

1099
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:18.080
Some people go, I'm never going to let that happen to me.

1100
00:48:18.080 --> 00:48:19.840
Therefore, I'm going to have a high savings rate.

1101
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:20.480
I'm going to invest.

1102
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:21.520
I'm going to start a business.

1103
00:48:21.520 --> 00:48:24.640
And they develop a really healthy relationship with money.

1104
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:27.840
Others go the direction you're suggesting,

1105
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:31.120
which is they become incredibly cheap,

1106
00:48:31.120 --> 00:48:33.040
incredibly worried about money.

1107
00:48:33.520 --> 00:48:35.520
Anxiety is common.

1108
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:41.200
And they often do not see the connection at all until I point it out to them.

1109
00:48:42.080 --> 00:48:45.920
And when you talk about making this rich life vision together,

1110
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:47.360
what exactly does that mean?

1111
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:49.280
We start off in the book just talking about,

1112
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.400
let's have our first positive conversation about money.

1113
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:56.000
You have to remember, most people have never had a positive conversation about money.

1114
00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:58.000
Money is the only way it comes up is,

1115
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:00.560
why did you spend that much at the gas station last week?

1116
00:49:00.560 --> 00:49:01.200
That's it.

1117
00:49:01.200 --> 00:49:02.560
So we start off by just saying,

1118
00:49:02.560 --> 00:49:04.240
I give them an agenda, literally an agenda,

1119
00:49:04.240 --> 00:49:06.160
you can read off these words and start it off.

1120
00:49:06.160 --> 00:49:08.320
It's like, why this is going to be awesome?

1121
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:10.000
Here's how I feel about money today.

1122
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.040
How do you feel?

1123
00:49:11.040 --> 00:49:12.960
Here's how I want to feel about money.

1124
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:14.000
How about you?

1125
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:14.640
High five.

1126
00:49:14.640 --> 00:49:15.680
I love you.

1127
00:49:15.680 --> 00:49:16.320
We're good.

1128
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:17.200
That's it.

1129
00:49:17.200 --> 00:49:19.280
Part of having conversations about money is

1130
00:49:20.560 --> 00:49:24.400
this philosophy of declare victory and go home.

1131
00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:26.640
You don't need to talk about it all at once,

1132
00:49:26.640 --> 00:49:28.080
make it short, make it fun.

1133
00:49:28.080 --> 00:49:30.320
And at the end, always say, I love you.

1134
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:31.360
That's it.

1135
00:49:32.560 --> 00:49:37.280
Over time, you're going to associate talking about money with positivity.

1136
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:38.160
And that's what we want.

1137
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:40.320
When it comes to a rich life vision,

1138
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:42.800
this is where it's really fun.

1139
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:44.720
So I have some fill in the blanks

1140
00:49:45.520 --> 00:49:48.800
where you fill it in like, I wish we spent more money on

1141
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:50.160
and then you fill it in.

1142
00:49:50.160 --> 00:49:52.160
I think we could probably cut back on

1143
00:49:52.160 --> 00:49:54.000
and then you fill it in and you compare your notes.

1144
00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:56.880
My wife and I did this really fun exercise

1145
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:58.880
which I would encourage everyone to do.

1146
00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:01.360
And it is the 10 year bucket list.

1147
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:03.840
So imagine you sit down with your partner

1148
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.240
and you go, let's each take a piece of paper

1149
00:50:07.040 --> 00:50:09.120
write down what would make the next 10 years

1150
00:50:09.120 --> 00:50:13.200
incredibly rich, meaningful to me and to us.

1151
00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:15.520
So you write it down and then you compare notes.

1152
00:50:15.520 --> 00:50:16.880
This is exactly what we did.

1153
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:18.080
And you get excited.

1154
00:50:18.080 --> 00:50:19.920
You want to learn Spanish?

1155
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:20.640
Amazing.

1156
00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:23.680
Do you want to do it online or do you want to go to Mexico City?

1157
00:50:24.240 --> 00:50:25.680
Oh, you want to go skydiving?

1158
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:29.040
That one's not for me, but I'll meet you at the ground.

1159
00:50:29.040 --> 00:50:29.680
Right? Have fun.

1160
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.160
And you just get excited.

1161
00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:34.320
You encourage the other person.

1162
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.360
And then you find one that you both want to do.

1163
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:39.280
That's meaningful for both of you.

1164
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:44.080
So maybe it is we want to create an art studio in the garage.

1165
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:45.680
Love it.

1166
00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:48.880
Maybe it is we want to take around the world trip

1167
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:49.920
at some point in the next stage.

1168
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:50.400
Okay, great.

1169
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:53.120
The difference with this exercise is

1170
00:50:53.120 --> 00:50:54.720
you're actually going to make it happen.

1171
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.440
So right there on the spot,

1172
00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:58.960
you estimate how much it would cost.

1173
00:50:59.520 --> 00:51:00.320
Take five minutes.

1174
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:01.120
Don't take more than that.

1175
00:51:01.120 --> 00:51:03.200
You can estimate it within 80% like that.

1176
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:05.920
Decide when you want to do it.

1177
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:07.040
Maybe if there's kids involved,

1178
00:51:07.040 --> 00:51:09.520
you're going to want to go in summer or winter, etc.

1179
00:51:09.520 --> 00:51:14.560
And then all you do is take the rough amount divided by the number of months.

1180
00:51:14.560 --> 00:51:16.960
And that's how you know how much you have to save for it.

1181
00:51:17.600 --> 00:51:18.560
We did this.

1182
00:51:18.560 --> 00:51:23.040
And for us, what was really meaningful is to have a 10-year wedding anniversary.

1183
00:51:23.040 --> 00:51:24.320
So we know where we want to do it.

1184
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:25.200
We know the exact place.

1185
00:51:25.200 --> 00:51:27.440
We know all the friends and family we want to have with us.

1186
00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:28.800
And we knew when it was going to happen.

1187
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:33.200
So we had a funny experience because we each sat down and estimated the cost.

1188
00:51:33.200 --> 00:51:36.880
And I think the number I picked was something like three times bigger than hers.

1189
00:51:37.520 --> 00:51:40.800
And in those cases, I say go with the bigger number.

1190
00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:42.480
Okay, it helps you dream a little bigger.

1191
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.360
If you can't save that much money per month,

1192
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:45.840
that's okay.

1193
00:51:46.560 --> 00:51:48.480
Shrink the dream a little bit, right?

1194
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.080
Narrow the scope or maybe extend it a little longer until you have to do it.

1195
00:51:52.080 --> 00:51:55.520
But suddenly, every single month when you sit down and talk about money,

1196
00:51:55.520 --> 00:51:56.400
it's like a video game.

1197
00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:59.600
You're like, oh, we're 3% closer to that goal.

1198
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:04.960
That is how you start to build a vision for money and have fun along the way.

1199
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:08.640
And do you subscribe to this idea that you should have like a joint bank account

1200
00:52:08.640 --> 00:52:10.160
and then separate bank accounts?

1201
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:12.640
Because right now, I just have my bank account.

1202
00:52:13.600 --> 00:52:14.160
How does it work?

1203
00:52:14.160 --> 00:52:14.960
How does it work for you?

1204
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:17.760
So do you just you just pay for most things?

1205
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:24.880
I have to give context on what my partner is like, she really doesn't care about material things.

1206
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:26.560
So she's a voider.

1207
00:52:27.120 --> 00:52:32.160
She just doesn't, she doesn't care about whether we fly first class or economy.

1208
00:52:32.160 --> 00:52:34.480
She doesn't care about if we stay in that hotel or this hotel.

1209
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:34.720
Right.

1210
00:52:34.720 --> 00:52:40.080
She doesn't care if we stay in the 70th floor penthouse we live there or if she stays in a studio.

1211
00:52:40.080 --> 00:52:40.720
She doesn't care.

1212
00:52:40.720 --> 00:52:41.840
What does she care about?

1213
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:43.520
She cares about quality time with me.

1214
00:52:43.520 --> 00:52:44.880
She likes having nice experiences.

1215
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:46.400
She likes going to places.

1216
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.400
Doesn't care how she gets there where she stays.

1217
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:50.240
She likes traveling and exploring.

1218
00:52:50.240 --> 00:52:51.440
And she likes her simple thing.

1219
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:52.560
She's a very simple person.

1220
00:52:52.560 --> 00:52:55.840
If I didn't get her birthday present or Valentine's Day present or Christmas present,

1221
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:58.320
or if I just made her a scrapbook every year, she'll be thrilled.

1222
00:52:58.320 --> 00:52:58.800
Okay.

1223
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:02.400
So I am the one that wants the nicest.

1224
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:05.120
You want the, okay, I'm just saying to a large extent.

1225
00:53:05.120 --> 00:53:07.360
But we have a like with it, you know, life it costs money.

1226
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:11.600
So I pay for most things.

1227
00:53:11.600 --> 00:53:12.080
Okay.

1228
00:53:12.080 --> 00:53:13.440
And you're cool that it's fine, right?

1229
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:14.480
Yeah, I've always been cool with it.

1230
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:15.200
Okay, cool.

1231
00:53:15.200 --> 00:53:18.400
So I'm particularly cool with it because she doesn't care.

1232
00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:18.960
Right.

1233
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:19.680
Does that make sense?

1234
00:53:19.680 --> 00:53:20.320
Yes, it makes sense.

1235
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:22.320
There's no resentment because she doesn't care.

1236
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:25.200
I'm the one that's making sure she travels this way.

1237
00:53:25.200 --> 00:53:25.600
Yeah.

1238
00:53:25.680 --> 00:53:29.520
I have to intervene and I have to fight to make sure that her

1239
00:53:29.520 --> 00:53:32.720
plane ticket is booked here or the hotel she's staying in

1240
00:53:32.720 --> 00:53:34.960
isn't going to be dangerous.

1241
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:37.440
I've got so many stories of her booking it herself.

1242
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:41.200
And then me having to rescue her because it's super dangerous.

1243
00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:41.360
Yeah.

1244
00:53:42.080 --> 00:53:46.880
So you and I have a similar dynamic, at least in this way.

1245
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:49.840
I think my wife does have her money dials.

1246
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:54.160
Money dials are the things you love to spend money on and you can turn that dial up.

1247
00:53:54.240 --> 00:53:57.760
But when we met, she was not into hotels at all.

1248
00:53:57.760 --> 00:53:58.720
I'm a hotel guy.

1249
00:53:58.720 --> 00:54:00.000
I love hotels.

1250
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.120
And so we had to have some conversations.

1251
00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:05.600
At first, I'm just like, oh yeah, of course I'm paying.

1252
00:54:05.600 --> 00:54:08.240
And then when we merged our finances,

1253
00:54:08.240 --> 00:54:12.240
which I recommend couples do, well suddenly it's not my money.

1254
00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:13.600
It's our money.

1255
00:54:13.600 --> 00:54:13.920
Yeah.

1256
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:18.560
And so now we are forced to talk about that stuff and come up with a way.

1257
00:54:18.560 --> 00:54:20.560
Like she's like, I don't need to stay there.

1258
00:54:20.560 --> 00:54:23.840
And like personally, I don't really think it's worth it for our money.

1259
00:54:24.160 --> 00:54:29.440
And I'm like, well, like have you seen, have you seen the suite at this place?

1260
00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:31.520
And do you know what type of wood they use in that?

1261
00:54:31.520 --> 00:54:32.080
She doesn't care.

1262
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:34.160
So how does that work?

1263
00:54:34.160 --> 00:54:35.920
You said you merge your finances.

1264
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:39.520
When you say you merge your finances, you mean you're paying into the same bank account.

1265
00:54:39.520 --> 00:54:40.240
Correct.

1266
00:54:40.240 --> 00:54:43.440
So and this is what I recommend for most, for almost all couples.

1267
00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:47.760
You take your paychecks or if you're we're both business owners,

1268
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:51.680
you take whatever money comes in, put it in the joint checking account.

1269
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:55.840
That joint checking account then pays a variety of different accounts.

1270
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.400
It pays our joint expenses like our rent.

1271
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.200
And if we eat out it pays for our joint credit card bill.

1272
00:55:01.680 --> 00:55:06.640
The money also is paid out from the joint checking to her individual checking and

1273
00:55:06.640 --> 00:55:09.920
individual savings, which she has her money.

1274
00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:13.440
No questions asked if she wants to spend it on something like she loves self-care.

1275
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:15.200
What am I going to ask?

1276
00:55:15.200 --> 00:55:15.760
It's her money.

1277
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:18.240
It also sends some money over to me.

1278
00:55:18.240 --> 00:55:20.880
That's no questions asked money that I say money.

1279
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:26.640
Yeah, the money that came in from us two together is processed in the joint checking account

1280
00:55:26.640 --> 00:55:28.240
and an amount goes to each of us.

1281
00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:30.800
The same amount goes to both of you.

1282
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:31.680
Good question.

1283
00:55:31.680 --> 00:55:32.960
It could be the same.

1284
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:35.440
50.50 I think is actually great.

1285
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:39.040
But once in a while, if you have somebody who's earning like let's say 10 times more,

1286
00:55:39.040 --> 00:55:42.480
okay, you may decide to make it proportional, right?

1287
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.360
So like one, the higher earning partner might get more.

1288
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:49.200
Because imagine just for arguments sake, imagine you're earning a million dollars a month.

1289
00:55:49.200 --> 00:55:49.760
Easy.

1290
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:56.720
And suddenly you're getting like $2,000 a month for guilt-free spending.

1291
00:55:56.720 --> 00:55:58.160
You're like, what the hell?

1292
00:55:58.160 --> 00:55:59.520
This doesn't make sense.

1293
00:56:00.160 --> 00:56:03.600
Usually partners are totally cool with that, but I will tell you this.

1294
00:56:03.600 --> 00:56:08.960
I used to be on the proportionality train, meaning everything's proportional, etc.

1295
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:10.480
My wife and I did this for many years.

1296
00:56:12.240 --> 00:56:13.280
It's really complicated.

1297
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:16.240
It gets really, really complicated.

1298
00:56:16.240 --> 00:56:21.600
And what's more important is you want to set your accounts up so that they drive the right

1299
00:56:21.600 --> 00:56:22.320
behavior.

1300
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:26.320
Just like when you hire people, you set the right incentives to drive the right behavior.

1301
00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:30.720
When our money was separate and we were doing all this proportionality, calculation,

1302
00:56:30.720 --> 00:56:34.560
and all these different accounts, we didn't see the money as hours.

1303
00:56:35.200 --> 00:56:37.200
Now all the money goes into that pot.

1304
00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:38.640
It's hours.

1305
00:56:38.640 --> 00:56:42.000
So we sit down every month, we look at our numbers and we go, what's worth it?

1306
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:44.000
Do we care about this hotel?

1307
00:56:44.080 --> 00:56:46.480
Do we care about that, etc., etc.

1308
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:48.320
We really love that.

1309
00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:50.720
Let's keep spending on that and find a way to do that.

1310
00:56:50.720 --> 00:56:51.760
It's about us.

1311
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:54.160
And of course, we have our own individual money.

1312
00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:56.000
So why didn't you just

1313
00:56:57.120 --> 00:56:57.920
the money coming in?

1314
00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:01.200
Why didn't it just go to you individually and then you pay into the joint account?

1315
00:57:01.200 --> 00:57:02.000
Why did you make that?

1316
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:02.720
That's what we did at first.

1317
00:57:02.720 --> 00:57:04.560
And it became really complicated.

1318
00:57:04.560 --> 00:57:09.120
So the money came into each of us and then because we each run businesses that are each

1319
00:57:09.120 --> 00:57:11.360
variable, we wanted it to be proportional.

1320
00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:12.000
Well, guess what?

1321
00:57:12.080 --> 00:57:17.120
If it changes every single month, we had to recalculate the proportionality every single quarter.

1322
00:57:17.120 --> 00:57:17.920
What a mess.

1323
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:22.160
So we're literally calculating every three months and then it changes.

1324
00:57:22.160 --> 00:57:24.400
And then at the end of the year, we have to reconcile all this stuff.

1325
00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:25.920
We're like, what is this?

1326
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:29.520
A marriage or a freaking multi-national conglomerate?

1327
00:57:30.080 --> 00:57:37.360
So part of a philosophy around a rich life vision is one of our values is fight for simplicity.

1328
00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:43.200
Fight for it because I talk to couples who have more complicated financial setups

1329
00:57:43.200 --> 00:57:43.760
than we do.

1330
00:57:44.720 --> 00:57:45.440
Shouldn't be the case.

1331
00:57:46.080 --> 00:57:48.880
Most people's setups should be very simple.

1332
00:57:49.680 --> 00:57:52.880
All your money comes into a joint checking account.

1333
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:58.560
From there, it pays out to individual accounts and it pays all your joint expenses.

1334
00:57:59.200 --> 00:58:01.360
Your life is together.

1335
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:04.240
Your rich life is together.

1336
00:58:04.240 --> 00:58:05.040
That's it.

1337
00:58:05.040 --> 00:58:05.600
We're married.

1338
00:58:05.600 --> 00:58:06.640
We're going to be married forever.

1339
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.040
Our future is together.

1340
00:58:09.520 --> 00:58:11.440
So let's set our accounts up accordingly.

1341
00:58:12.160 --> 00:58:14.720
So then if you end up getting a divorce, that joint checking account,

1342
00:58:14.720 --> 00:58:16.160
do you just split it in half or?

1343
00:58:16.160 --> 00:58:16.640
Yeah.

1344
00:58:16.640 --> 00:58:18.560
So this is a good question.

1345
00:58:18.560 --> 00:58:24.000
When you are married, the money that is earned is community property.

1346
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:30.240
So let's just say we put $100,000 in that checking account and we were to get separated tomorrow,

1347
00:58:30.240 --> 00:58:30.880
50-50.

1348
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:35.520
Yeah, and that's reasonable, right?

1349
00:58:35.520 --> 00:58:36.480
It's community property.

1350
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:40.720
The prenup is only concerned with what happened before the marriage.

1351
00:58:42.720 --> 00:58:47.840
So you're in the camp of not caring too much about the small expenses, the coffee.

1352
00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:48.880
That's a waste of time.

1353
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:49.840
Why is it a waste of time?

1354
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:52.400
Because they are three dollar questions.

1355
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:57.040
If you actually added up how much they actually cost you, it's actually not that much.

1356
00:58:57.680 --> 00:59:02.240
It's the simple joy that you enjoy in the morning and you could spend your entire life

1357
00:59:02.240 --> 00:59:04.160
agonizing over buying a coffee.

1358
00:59:04.160 --> 00:59:07.600
But when I ask people, okay, so you stopped buying coffee for a month.

1359
00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:09.200
How'd you feel?

1360
00:59:09.200 --> 00:59:10.400
They go, oh, I felt okay.

1361
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:12.240
I go, what'd you do with the money you saved?

1362
00:59:12.240 --> 00:59:14.640
They go, I don't know, it's in my checking account.

1363
00:59:15.520 --> 00:59:20.240
Not only do you have to make the decision every single day to save on these tiny little things,

1364
00:59:20.240 --> 00:59:24.880
you then have to properly invest that money and you have to do this every single day for the rest of your life.

1365
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:29.280
What if we just got five critical decisions correct for the rest of our life and didn't have

1366
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:30.160
to worry about coffee?

1367
00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:31.920
Why are we playing so small?

1368
00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:35.760
Oh, let's decide, do we have enough money to buy this saran wrap?

1369
00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:37.360
Who cares?

1370
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:40.960
Let's talk about, are we investing properly?

1371
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:43.200
Do we have a target rate that we are doing?

1372
00:59:43.200 --> 00:59:43.520
Watch this.

1373
00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:48.880
I bet you so many couples watching this right now have had arguments about why you spend so much

1374
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:52.640
at the grocery store, why can't you stop spending so much on the kids and on and on.

1375
00:59:52.640 --> 00:59:54.480
But have they ever had conversations like this?

1376
00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:56.480
What is our savings rate?

1377
00:59:57.040 --> 00:59:59.200
Is it 4%, 6%, 7%,

1378
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:01.200
what is our investment rate?

1379
01:00:01.200 --> 01:00:04.000
Is it 6%, 8%, whatever the number is,

1380
01:00:04.560 --> 01:00:07.680
let's make a rule that every December we increase it by 1%.

1381
01:00:08.560 --> 01:00:12.320
If you just did that, if you increase your investment rate,

1382
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:17.360
meaning the percentage of your net income that you invest every single month,

1383
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:20.400
I always recommend people start off at 5% to 10%.

1384
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:25.440
Let's say you're at 6%, if you make a rule, every December we're going to increase that by 1%,

1385
01:00:26.240 --> 01:00:31.280
it will be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to you, more than all the coffee you

1386
01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:33.120
ever buy in your entire life.

1387
01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:37.760
So why the hell would you focus on coffee when you can make one decision per year

1388
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:40.240
and make way more than all those coffees combined?

1389
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:44.000
Most couples when they think about investing, will their investment rate?

1390
01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:47.360
The only investment most couples make together is buying a house.

1391
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:51.360
Well, and that's questionable not even in investment.

1392
01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:54.080
Most people think renting is wasting money.

1393
01:00:54.640 --> 01:01:00.320
And the logic goes, well, if my rent is $2,000 a month or $2,000 a month,

1394
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:03.040
my mortgage is only going to be $2,000 a month.

1395
01:01:03.040 --> 01:01:07.120
And so we might as well buy a house because then we get to keep the asset.

1396
01:01:07.120 --> 01:01:08.320
Are you trying to get me mad right now?

1397
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:10.400
I'm starting to sweat just hearing this because you're right.

1398
01:01:10.400 --> 01:01:11.120
That's what they say.

1399
01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:15.360
Should I just dismantle these arguments once and for all right now?

1400
01:01:17.040 --> 01:01:18.480
Renting is not throwing away money.

1401
01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:24.160
Just like going to a sushi restaurant is not throwing money away on sushi.

1402
01:01:24.160 --> 01:01:26.080
You're paying for something, you're getting value.

1403
01:01:26.080 --> 01:01:27.200
It's fantastic.

1404
01:01:27.200 --> 01:01:28.560
The next argument they use is

1405
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:31.760
you're paying your landlord's mortgage.

1406
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:36.240
I go, okay, aren't you paying the sushi owner's mortgage when you go there and get sushi?

1407
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:38.320
Funny, we never think about it like that.

1408
01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:40.480
We only think about paying the landlord's mortgage.

1409
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:47.440
Finally, we have to understand that buying a house can be a good financial decision.

1410
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:48.000
It can be.

1411
01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:52.720
But renting and investing the difference can also be a good decision.

1412
01:01:52.720 --> 01:01:57.280
And right now in the US, in the top 50 US metro cities,

1413
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:59.200
it is cheaper to rent than to buy.

1414
01:02:00.160 --> 01:02:01.760
So let me give you some math.

1415
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:04.000
Let's say, because I lived in New York close by,

1416
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.920
if the rent was, let's say, $3,000 a month

1417
01:02:09.120 --> 01:02:13.680
to own the equivalent property right next door would have been $6,600 a month.

1418
01:02:13.680 --> 01:02:16.480
That's $3,600 per month.

1419
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:18.400
More just to own.

1420
01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:20.240
So most people don't know this.

1421
01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:23.520
They don't factor in phantom costs like maintenance, taxes, transaction,

1422
01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:24.320
opportunity costs.

1423
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:29.600
They simply look at a number that says $3,600 or whatever the number may be.

1424
01:02:29.600 --> 01:02:30.880
And they go, great investment.

1425
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:36.640
We have got to get more sophisticated with the biggest purchase of our lives.

1426
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:40.960
I'm just looking at some of the comments on our last conversation.

1427
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:41.600
Oh yeah, what do they say?

1428
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:43.520
It's a balancing act.

1429
01:02:43.520 --> 01:02:45.280
There's two groups of people here.

1430
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:48.560
There's a group of people who attest to the fact that they bought a house

1431
01:02:48.560 --> 01:02:50.240
and it's the single best thing they did.

1432
01:02:51.520 --> 01:02:52.800
This person said, I bought a house.

1433
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:54.000
It's the best thing I ever did.

1434
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.480
It's launched my mindset in new directions.

1435
01:02:56.480 --> 01:03:00.240
Remember that having your own space has profound psychological impacts

1436
01:03:00.240 --> 01:03:01.920
and can change your life.

1437
01:03:02.560 --> 01:03:03.440
That's a good comment.

1438
01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:04.640
Okay, let's talk about that first.

1439
01:03:04.640 --> 01:03:05.440
I love that comment.

1440
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:09.360
We have to remember that life is not just about a spreadsheet.

1441
01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:10.160
It's not.

1442
01:03:10.160 --> 01:03:13.200
So when it comes to a major purchase like a house or a car,

1443
01:03:13.200 --> 01:03:15.040
we got to start with the numbers.

1444
01:03:15.040 --> 01:03:18.960
Okay, we have to start by running a buy versus rent calculation,

1445
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:21.120
by running an amortization chart.

1446
01:03:21.120 --> 01:03:23.120
I have a whole bunch of stuff on buy versus rent.

1447
01:03:23.120 --> 01:03:24.880
And then we need to know, can we afford it?

1448
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:27.200
Is this part of our rich life vision?

1449
01:03:27.200 --> 01:03:29.760
What if one of us loses our job and on and on?

1450
01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:32.080
But then second, we need to say,

1451
01:03:32.640 --> 01:03:34.400
what kind of lifestyle do we want?

1452
01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:37.680
If we love to decorate, that's probably worth something.

1453
01:03:37.680 --> 01:03:39.520
We should maybe we need to buy a house.

1454
01:03:39.520 --> 01:03:42.400
If we want our kids to be in a particular area, maybe we need to buy.

1455
01:03:43.040 --> 01:03:46.560
There's so many non-financial reasons to buy or to rent.

1456
01:03:46.560 --> 01:03:48.880
And so we can't just do one or the other.

1457
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:53.280
But my main argument is this, most of us never run the numbers.

1458
01:03:53.280 --> 01:03:57.440
We will spend a million dollars in total cost of ownership for a house

1459
01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:59.360
and we won't run one calculation.

1460
01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:01.360
So we got to play multiple notes

1461
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.480
doing the financial and non-financial parts.

1462
01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:06.160
I think that's what a lot of people are actually saying.

1463
01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:07.280
A lot of people are saying,

1464
01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:10.320
you know, I bought a house and this person saying I used to be,

1465
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:13.440
they used to live in a caravan, I finally bought a house

1466
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:16.320
and I don't care about being rich necessarily,

1467
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:18.800
but having my own house means the world to me.

1468
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:20.800
Great, great, non-financial reason.

1469
01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:22.080
They want stability.

1470
01:04:22.080 --> 01:04:23.200
I totally value that.

1471
01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:26.800
I would also ask, did you run the numbers?

1472
01:04:27.680 --> 01:04:30.400
I think the key thing is most people when they buy the house,

1473
01:04:30.400 --> 01:04:33.040
they see it as an investment and they see it as a good investment.

1474
01:04:33.040 --> 01:04:35.840
I think in part because they don't really know any other way to invest.

1475
01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:36.480
Totally right.

1476
01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:39.760
So we grew up, we think, okay, the many get enough money,

1477
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:42.160
the first thing you have to do is buy a house.

1478
01:04:42.160 --> 01:04:45.520
I mean, there's a real sequence of events in our lives that are given to us,

1479
01:04:45.520 --> 01:04:49.120
which is go to school, go to college or university or something like that,

1480
01:04:49.120 --> 01:04:53.360
get the degree, get the job by the house, get married, have the kids.

1481
01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:57.760
And then move to Florida, get skin cancer, die.

1482
01:04:57.760 --> 01:04:58.960
Oh, retire.

1483
01:04:59.600 --> 01:05:00.720
Have your pension die.

1484
01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:03.600
We don't have pensions anymore, that was in the 60s.

1485
01:05:03.600 --> 01:05:07.600
But yes, and actually that's a pretty good life if you think about it.

1486
01:05:07.600 --> 01:05:12.160
It's actually a very good life, especially the way that our parents' generation grew up,

1487
01:05:12.160 --> 01:05:16.800
where they could buy a house on a reasonable salary, one salary.

1488
01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:18.640
But that doesn't exist right now.

1489
01:05:19.200 --> 01:05:20.880
Housing is historically expensive.

1490
01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:24.400
And not through any fault of young people, by the way.

1491
01:05:25.200 --> 01:05:27.520
There's a lot of this stuff thrown around.

1492
01:05:27.520 --> 01:05:30.560
The media, young people are buying too much avocado toast.

1493
01:05:30.560 --> 01:05:32.080
They're always buying the new iPhone.

1494
01:05:32.080 --> 01:05:33.680
That's not why housing is expensive.

1495
01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:41.200
Housing is expensive because people who bought their houses in the 60s, 70s and 80s bought a house

1496
01:05:41.200 --> 01:05:45.120
and then systematically prevented everyone else from building more housing.

1497
01:05:45.600 --> 01:05:49.120
So it is, it's called nimbism, not in my backyard.

1498
01:05:49.120 --> 01:05:53.520
They have allowed almost no housing to be built, particularly in the US.

1499
01:05:54.240 --> 01:05:58.960
That's why if you only have a limited supply, guess what happens to the price, it goes way up.

1500
01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:03.120
That's changing slowly, housing prices will in certain cities like Austin,

1501
01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:06.720
even Santa Monica have come down in certain areas.

1502
01:06:06.720 --> 01:06:10.080
It's really important to be able to build more housing so that young people,

1503
01:06:10.080 --> 01:06:13.440
middle class people, poor people can afford housing.

1504
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:18.480
We should not have people unable to afford rent or buying housing.

1505
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:19.520
That's a big problem.

1506
01:06:19.520 --> 01:06:24.320
So are you saying that the average couple, if they're looking to make a financial return

1507
01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:28.480
on their joint savings account, they shouldn't invest that money in a house?

1508
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:35.440
I personally would not consider my primary residence to be a great investment

1509
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:43.040
because it has massive costs, massive maintenance, opportunity cost of that down payment.

1510
01:06:43.040 --> 01:06:46.640
Let's say you put down 50k or 100k, that could have been invested.

1511
01:06:46.640 --> 01:06:51.920
It has all kinds of phantom costs and then you have to stay there for

1512
01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:54.640
until you pay it off, presumably 30 years.

1513
01:06:54.720 --> 01:06:56.560
Most people don't stay for 30 years.

1514
01:06:56.560 --> 01:06:58.960
There's some shocking math behind a mortgage.

1515
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:03.920
Like most people don't realize that they will be paying more towards their

1516
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:08.560
interest than towards principle for 21 years.

1517
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:10.400
Let me say that again.

1518
01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:13.600
Most people, when they take a 30-year mortgage right now with interest rates the way they are,

1519
01:07:14.640 --> 01:07:21.040
they will be paying more towards interest than they are towards the mortgage in year one,

1520
01:07:21.040 --> 01:07:30.320
two, five, 10, year 20, until finally year 21 when they are finally paying more towards

1521
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:33.120
their mortgage, their principle rather than interest.

1522
01:07:33.120 --> 01:07:36.400
So you know that phrase, I don't want to throw money away on rent.

1523
01:07:37.040 --> 01:07:41.120
We might more aptly say, I don't want to throw money away on interest.

1524
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.520
So if I'm in a couple, I'm in a relationship and me and my partner have managed to save

1525
01:07:45.600 --> 01:07:50.960
on a 50K, what is the better use of that 50K to drive a financial return?

1526
01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:54.800
Okay, so let's simplify the whole thing.

1527
01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:56.000
I have a conscious spending plan.

1528
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:58.480
I have four numbers that a couple should be talking about, okay?

1529
01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:00.560
The first off is your fixed costs.

1530
01:08:00.560 --> 01:08:04.640
Those should be roughly 50 to 60% of your take home pay.

1531
01:08:04.640 --> 01:08:05.680
And what's a fixed cost?

1532
01:08:05.680 --> 01:08:10.880
Fixed costs include your housing or that could be rent mortgage, your utilities,

1533
01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:15.200
your car payment, any debt payment, anything that is consistent,

1534
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:19.520
even groceries that you need to live every single month.

1535
01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:23.120
So 50% of my monthly income goes straight to those fixed costs?

1536
01:08:23.120 --> 01:08:25.920
Monthly take home post tax, post tax, okay.

1537
01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:28.560
50 to 60% is the number you want to be targeting.

1538
01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:34.640
Right there is the crux of why couples are stressed out about money.

1539
01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:37.520
It's because they are spending too much on fixed costs.

1540
01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:40.080
And within that, there's two areas they spend too much on.

1541
01:08:40.080 --> 01:08:41.120
You know what they are?

1542
01:08:41.120 --> 01:08:44.720
Housing is number one because it's so expensive and they don't calculate.

1543
01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:47.600
Number two is cars, usually trucks.

1544
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:51.280
We love trucks, trucks and SUVs.

1545
01:08:51.280 --> 01:08:55.120
In America, the cultural script is, oh, we're having a kid.

1546
01:08:55.120 --> 01:09:00.640
We need to get a big house and a big SUV because we do.

1547
01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:05.120
So that right there is where people get stressed out about money.

1548
01:09:06.320 --> 01:09:08.800
Next number is your savings.

1549
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:11.600
This should be five to 10% minimum.

1550
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:13.760
This includes your emergency fund.

1551
01:09:13.760 --> 01:09:15.920
This includes saving for a down payment.

1552
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:20.480
Anything you're saving for money you don't need for between one to five years, basically, okay.

1553
01:09:21.280 --> 01:09:23.120
Next up is investments.

1554
01:09:23.120 --> 01:09:25.760
This would be five to 10% minimum.

1555
01:09:26.320 --> 01:09:29.040
This is where real wealth is created.

1556
01:09:29.040 --> 01:09:31.040
And this is where couples neglect.

1557
01:09:31.040 --> 01:09:34.080
They talk about saving and they'll say, oh, we try to save.

1558
01:09:34.640 --> 01:09:36.080
I don't try to brush my teeth.

1559
01:09:36.080 --> 01:09:37.280
I don't try to save.

1560
01:09:37.360 --> 01:09:38.320
I make it automatic.

1561
01:09:38.320 --> 01:09:39.680
That's what I want couples to do.

1562
01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:40.640
That's what I cover in the book.

1563
01:09:41.360 --> 01:09:45.040
And then finally, my favorite category of all, guilt-free spending.

1564
01:09:45.040 --> 01:09:49.200
This is going out for drinks, concerts, travel,

1565
01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:52.800
20 to 35% of take-home pay.

1566
01:09:53.440 --> 01:09:54.080
That's a lot.

1567
01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:55.200
That's a lot.

1568
01:09:55.200 --> 01:09:57.680
If you look at it, people go, wow, yes.

1569
01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:00.400
And when you get down to that number and you're out and you're having

1570
01:10:00.400 --> 01:10:03.040
drinks with your friends or you're out to a beautiful experience,

1571
01:10:03.920 --> 01:10:06.160
you don't have to worry about anything else.

1572
01:10:06.160 --> 01:10:09.840
You don't have to feel guilty or anxious because you're already handling

1573
01:10:10.480 --> 01:10:12.000
all these other three numbers.

1574
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:16.800
You know you're set and you have this money set aside and you can enjoy it guilt-free.

1575
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:20.720
So this 10%, this sort of 10% is automatically invested.

1576
01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:24.800
Would you set up some kind of system that automatically invested?

1577
01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:26.080
Always, always.

1578
01:10:26.080 --> 01:10:28.800
You should not be doing any of this manually.

1579
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:31.680
So your investments should be happening automatically.

1580
01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:35.360
And for a couple, you actually get to celebrate it every month.

1581
01:10:35.360 --> 01:10:39.360
You have a monthly money meeting where you talk about money every month.

1582
01:10:39.360 --> 01:10:40.320
Most couples don't do this.

1583
01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:43.760
You will now after watching this and you talk about it.

1584
01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:45.680
You look at how your investments are doing.

1585
01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:47.440
You give each other a high five, a big hug.

1586
01:10:47.440 --> 01:10:48.640
Congratulations.

1587
01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:51.040
And once you do this for six months, a year,

1588
01:10:51.040 --> 01:10:54.800
you really start to see how it adds up fast.

1589
01:10:54.800 --> 01:10:57.280
What if your partner wants to buy a house and you don't?

1590
01:10:58.320 --> 01:10:58.880
That's tricky.

1591
01:10:58.880 --> 01:10:59.600
How would you handle it?

1592
01:11:02.080 --> 01:11:04.400
It depends on my level of conviction about the decision.

1593
01:11:04.400 --> 01:11:06.160
I think you've got to pick your battles and relationships.

1594
01:11:06.160 --> 01:11:10.640
But I am probably more financially aware

1595
01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:13.600
than my partner because my brother is,

1596
01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:15.120
he's been an investment banker for 13 years.

1597
01:11:15.120 --> 01:11:16.400
He works for me full-time.

1598
01:11:16.400 --> 01:11:17.360
He's my money guy.

1599
01:11:17.360 --> 01:11:17.920
Yeah, okay.

1600
01:11:17.920 --> 01:11:18.560
He's my brother.

1601
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:19.440
Where's he charging?

1602
01:11:19.440 --> 01:11:20.640
1.5%?

1603
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:22.640
He doesn't charge me a percentage on my portfolio.

1604
01:11:22.640 --> 01:11:23.680
He's so happy.

1605
01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:24.880
No, he works full-time in the business.

1606
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:27.360
So he manages much of my money.

1607
01:11:27.360 --> 01:11:31.360
But he would make the case to me of pretty much the case you've made.

1608
01:11:31.360 --> 01:11:31.680
Yeah.

1609
01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:34.400
So based on an opportunity cost basis,

1610
01:11:34.400 --> 01:11:36.560
a lot of people don't even know what opportunity cost is.

1611
01:11:36.560 --> 01:11:37.360
I'm going to hazard a guess.

1612
01:11:37.360 --> 01:11:38.400
I'm going to try and explain it,

1613
01:11:38.400 --> 01:11:41.120
which is essentially all the things you could have done with this money instead.

1614
01:11:41.120 --> 01:11:41.680
Yes.

1615
01:11:41.680 --> 01:11:45.120
So based on all the opportunities you have available to you, Steve,

1616
01:11:45.120 --> 01:11:48.000
is buying this house a good use of that money.

1617
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:49.680
And the answer was actually,

1618
01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:51.840
when I bought my first house, it was no.

1619
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:55.360
Unless this is an emotional decision

1620
01:11:55.920 --> 01:11:58.240
because you and your partner want a

1621
01:11:59.200 --> 01:12:02.000
psychological feeling of safety to bring up the kids,

1622
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:03.680
whatever it might be, just a thing.

1623
01:12:03.680 --> 01:12:05.920
Then if it is, Steve, if that's why you want to buy it,

1624
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:09.280
and you think you're going to stay there for a considerable amount of years,

1625
01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:10.080
then go ahead.

1626
01:12:10.080 --> 01:12:12.960
We're going to kind of section this as a different rationale

1627
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:13.920
than the rest of your investments.

1628
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:14.560
What did you do?

1629
01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:15.920
I did exactly what he said.

1630
01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:17.760
You bought it knowing it was an emotional decision.

1631
01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:19.840
Yeah, but it's knowing it was a bad decision.

1632
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:21.040
I love this.

1633
01:12:21.040 --> 01:12:21.280
Yeah.

1634
01:12:21.280 --> 01:12:22.800
Okay, this is amazing.

1635
01:12:22.800 --> 01:12:25.360
Everybody listen closely because I want to break down what you just said

1636
01:12:25.360 --> 01:12:26.400
in a different term.

1637
01:12:27.280 --> 01:12:29.280
First off, you've got to run the numbers.

1638
01:12:29.280 --> 01:12:29.760
Yeah.

1639
01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:31.840
Always, for the biggest purchases in your life,

1640
01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:35.200
you need to calculate carefully what's my buy versus rent,

1641
01:12:35.200 --> 01:12:37.440
what's my opportunity cost, what's it going to amortize at?

1642
01:12:37.440 --> 01:12:39.440
All these things that most people are not familiar with,

1643
01:12:39.440 --> 01:12:41.120
learn it, it's not that complicated.

1644
01:12:41.120 --> 01:12:42.960
Second, you need to factor in the non-financial.

1645
01:12:42.960 --> 01:12:43.920
Hey, why am I doing this?

1646
01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:45.280
Do I just feel this certain way?

1647
01:12:45.280 --> 01:12:48.960
There's nothing wrong with feeling irrational about money.

1648
01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:49.680
Nothing.

1649
01:12:49.680 --> 01:12:52.400
You want to buy this thing and it's a bad financial decision?

1650
01:12:52.400 --> 01:12:53.280
Okay.

1651
01:12:53.280 --> 01:12:54.160
First, can I afford it?

1652
01:12:54.160 --> 01:12:55.840
If so, we can continue the conversation.

1653
01:12:56.480 --> 01:12:59.600
And then you buy it, eyes wide open saying,

1654
01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:02.240
I know it's not an investment.

1655
01:13:02.240 --> 01:13:03.920
I know it's not even a good financial decision.

1656
01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:05.520
In fact, it's a terrible financial decision.

1657
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:06.640
And I'm still going to do it.

1658
01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:07.120
Yeah.

1659
01:13:07.120 --> 01:13:10.080
When my wife and I go to buy a house one day,

1660
01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:14.560
it will be the worst financial decision of our lives.

1661
01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:15.520
We already know that.

1662
01:13:16.880 --> 01:13:18.640
But we will probably still do it anyway.

1663
01:13:19.360 --> 01:13:21.760
Same as you because there's more to life

1664
01:13:21.760 --> 01:13:23.440
than just what's in a spreadsheet.

1665
01:13:24.160 --> 01:13:27.520
But you have to know all the pieces on the board

1666
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:29.520
before you make these big decisions.

1667
01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:31.120
And you have to be able to do it with your partner.

1668
01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:34.560
You know, it'd be very easy for you to do things unilaterally.

1669
01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:36.400
You'd be very easy for me to do it as well.

1670
01:13:36.400 --> 01:13:40.000
What I've learned and what I emphasize on my podcast

1671
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:43.600
every episode is just because you may be the higher earner

1672
01:13:43.600 --> 01:13:47.520
or have more money, it's actually your obligation

1673
01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:50.560
to bring your partner in and to get them involved.

1674
01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:54.160
And they may not be as savvy or even as interested.

1675
01:13:54.160 --> 01:13:57.440
But you have to find a way to bring them into this world

1676
01:13:57.440 --> 01:13:58.960
and get them connected with you.

1677
01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:03.920
With my wife and me, of course, I know more about investments.

1678
01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:08.080
So I'm doing our investments, but we're still talking about them.

1679
01:14:08.080 --> 01:14:10.160
We're saying like, hey, here's the numbers we chose.

1680
01:14:10.160 --> 01:14:11.280
Are we still good with that?

1681
01:14:11.280 --> 01:14:12.320
Let's take a look at it.

1682
01:14:12.320 --> 01:14:13.280
High five.

1683
01:14:13.280 --> 01:14:15.200
You know, here's what we're thinking for next year.

1684
01:14:15.200 --> 01:14:16.800
That's the level we're talking about.

1685
01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:20.320
These are exactly the kind of conversations you want to have.

1686
01:14:20.720 --> 01:14:22.800
I'm actually really thrilled you shared that example

1687
01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:28.400
because I celebrate that you made a bad financial investment

1688
01:14:28.400 --> 01:14:29.600
because it wasn't an investment.

1689
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:31.760
It was just something you wanted and you could afford it.

1690
01:14:33.760 --> 01:14:35.200
Yeah, and we're both aware.

1691
01:14:35.200 --> 01:14:36.560
Me and my partner, we had the conversation.

1692
01:14:36.560 --> 01:14:40.800
We're both aware that this is one of the worst things

1693
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:41.840
we could have spent the money on.

1694
01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:45.040
If our objective, if our KPI, our key performance indicator,

1695
01:14:45.040 --> 01:14:48.400
was to make more money, this was a terrible decision to make.

1696
01:14:48.400 --> 01:14:49.040
Yes.

1697
01:14:49.040 --> 01:14:50.720
But we're also aware we just didn't care.

1698
01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:54.240
We thought, you know, there's a lot of non-manantry things

1699
01:14:54.240 --> 01:14:56.560
that are going to be beneficial about this decision.

1700
01:14:56.560 --> 01:14:58.400
And I think that's what most people don't realize, actually.

1701
01:14:58.400 --> 01:14:59.760
And I just think about my friends.

1702
01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:02.480
I think most of my friends believe that when they buy their house,

1703
01:15:02.480 --> 01:15:05.200
they're doing so because they don't know

1704
01:15:05.200 --> 01:15:06.800
that they don't know any other way to invest.

1705
01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:08.560
Society hasn't given us an alternative.

1706
01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:10.640
So what is the alternative?

1707
01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:14.160
Simple, low-cost long-term index funds

1708
01:15:14.160 --> 01:15:16.080
are fantastic ways to invest.

1709
01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:17.680
I'll explain what they are.

1710
01:15:18.640 --> 01:15:20.880
The myth about investing is that you have to sit there

1711
01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:22.960
and look at PE ratios and things like that.

1712
01:15:22.960 --> 01:15:23.600
No.

1713
01:15:23.600 --> 01:15:25.600
You pick, often, one fund.

1714
01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:28.240
There's a simple example called a target date fund.

1715
01:15:28.240 --> 01:15:30.000
You pick the year you're going to retire in.

1716
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.240
Like, if I'm going to retire in 2050,

1717
01:15:32.240 --> 01:15:36.560
I pick a Vanguard 2050 fund or Fidelity or Schwab 2050 fund.

1718
01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:39.920
All I do is literally send money every single month.

1719
01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:42.080
I set it up so it happens automatically.

1720
01:15:42.080 --> 01:15:45.360
It could be $50 a month, $500.

1721
01:15:45.360 --> 01:15:48.880
$500,000 per month, and that's all I do.

1722
01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:50.080
I just send it there.

1723
01:15:50.080 --> 01:15:53.360
It automatically buys the stock market.

1724
01:15:53.360 --> 01:15:56.800
It automatically diversifies and gets more conservative over time.

1725
01:15:56.800 --> 01:15:57.920
And that's it.

1726
01:15:57.920 --> 01:15:59.360
So you know the fitness world.

1727
01:15:59.360 --> 01:16:01.360
I've seen you training.

1728
01:16:01.360 --> 01:16:02.640
You've learned about fitness.

1729
01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:07.040
When you first start off, so much information

1730
01:16:07.040 --> 01:16:10.000
and so many different people giving you different pieces of advice.

1731
01:16:10.000 --> 01:16:12.720
It's like, oh my god, how am I supposed to know

1732
01:16:12.720 --> 01:16:14.160
what about my genetics and this and that.

1733
01:16:14.160 --> 01:16:17.680
And then over time, you realize, oh, it's actually pretty simple

1734
01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:19.040
once you cut through the noise.

1735
01:16:19.760 --> 01:16:20.960
That's the same thing with money.

1736
01:16:20.960 --> 01:16:22.640
That's the same thing with investing.

1737
01:16:22.640 --> 01:16:23.680
If you cut through the noise,

1738
01:16:23.680 --> 01:16:26.800
and it actually becomes shockingly simple,

1739
01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:29.680
oh my god, this is the way that real wealth is created.

1740
01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:31.680
It's about consistent investing.

1741
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:32.560
It's about time.

1742
01:16:32.560 --> 01:16:34.000
It's about low fees.

1743
01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:35.200
That's it.

1744
01:16:35.200 --> 01:16:36.880
And you start to wonder, what's all this stuff

1745
01:16:36.880 --> 01:16:40.400
that they publish all the time in these magazines and newspapers

1746
01:16:40.400 --> 01:16:41.520
and on TikTok?

1747
01:16:42.400 --> 01:16:43.280
It's just noise.

1748
01:16:44.240 --> 01:16:47.040
Do you know when you sat down with those 180 odd couples

1749
01:16:47.040 --> 01:16:49.200
you've spoken to about money in their relationship?

1750
01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:53.040
Have you not had moments where one of the partners was shocked?

1751
01:16:53.600 --> 01:16:54.480
Always.

1752
01:16:54.480 --> 01:16:55.360
For better and for worse.

1753
01:16:56.400 --> 01:16:58.160
Yeah, yeah, actually, yes.

1754
01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:04.320
Sometimes they are shocked before they meet me

1755
01:17:04.320 --> 01:17:07.360
because I have them prepare their document with their financials

1756
01:17:07.360 --> 01:17:10.160
and one of them has never actually looked at their financials.

1757
01:17:10.160 --> 01:17:11.120
Sometimes both.

1758
01:17:11.120 --> 01:17:13.520
And they realize it's much worse than they thought

1759
01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:14.400
or it's much better.

1760
01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:16.000
Sometimes we're talking

1761
01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:21.200
and one of the partners will actually talk about

1762
01:17:21.200 --> 01:17:23.440
how they feel for the first time ever

1763
01:17:23.440 --> 01:17:24.800
and the other partner will be crying.

1764
01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:26.240
Give me some examples of the moments

1765
01:17:26.240 --> 01:17:27.840
that you remember that shocked you the most.

1766
01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:36.000
I think about one of the most shocking examples was

1767
01:17:37.200 --> 01:17:42.160
a woman who was around the age of mid-40s, maybe 50,

1768
01:17:42.240 --> 01:17:44.320
and she had had a double lung transplant.

1769
01:17:45.120 --> 01:17:49.040
And she had successfully had the transplant and she was alive.

1770
01:17:50.080 --> 01:17:54.400
She was healthy, but she knew that she would live

1771
01:17:55.280 --> 01:17:56.240
five or ten more years.

1772
01:17:57.120 --> 01:17:58.240
That's what the doctors told her.

1773
01:17:59.280 --> 01:18:02.240
And she said, I want to share this time with my daughters.

1774
01:18:02.240 --> 01:18:05.360
They were around 11 and 12, her husband.

1775
01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:08.640
And I want to do that.

1776
01:18:09.120 --> 01:18:10.880
I said, okay, what's stopping you?

1777
01:18:11.360 --> 01:18:13.680
And she said, well, I still have a job.

1778
01:18:14.320 --> 01:18:15.600
And I looked at her financials.

1779
01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:17.040
They were multimillionaires.

1780
01:18:17.040 --> 01:18:20.800
They had saved consistently doing index funds over time.

1781
01:18:20.800 --> 01:18:23.120
Nothing fancy, just consistent investing.

1782
01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:26.080
They, she could stop working tomorrow

1783
01:18:26.080 --> 01:18:29.520
and they would have enough money forever.

1784
01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:31.840
She couldn't stop.

1785
01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:33.440
She said, I like to work.

1786
01:18:33.440 --> 01:18:35.280
I like knowing that I have a job.

1787
01:18:35.280 --> 01:18:37.280
I like the consistent income.

1788
01:18:38.160 --> 01:18:42.640
So most people are used to getting an income.

1789
01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:44.880
And that's why they find it so difficult to retire

1790
01:18:44.880 --> 01:18:46.000
among other reasons.

1791
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:47.600
Because the income will stop.

1792
01:18:47.600 --> 01:18:49.440
Even though I can point out to them,

1793
01:18:49.440 --> 01:18:52.160
the investment portfolio you've built and social security

1794
01:18:52.160 --> 01:18:53.520
and all these things will actually pay you,

1795
01:18:54.240 --> 01:18:58.480
people are terrified of not seeing that money come into their checking account.

1796
01:18:58.480 --> 01:19:01.200
In this case, she had a ticking clock.

1797
01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:04.720
We all have a clock, but she knew how long hers would go for it.

1798
01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:08.960
She found it incredibly difficult to quit her job

1799
01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:10.640
and spend time with her daughters.

1800
01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:14.160
Now, if we're listening to this, it's like just quit.

1801
01:19:14.160 --> 01:19:15.600
It's so obvious to all of us.

1802
01:19:17.040 --> 01:19:18.880
But we're not the ones making the decision.

1803
01:19:19.440 --> 01:19:22.400
That was quite shocking to hear how difficult it can be.

1804
01:19:22.400 --> 01:19:24.480
Even in cases of life or death,

1805
01:19:25.680 --> 01:19:28.720
wanting to have a stable income can affect us.

1806
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:31.520
And what about earning?

1807
01:19:32.080 --> 01:19:33.600
Like what role does earning play?

1808
01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:35.200
Like just earning more money,

1809
01:19:35.200 --> 01:19:36.480
playing all of this stuff.

1810
01:19:36.480 --> 01:19:38.240
Because I think I did how I'm going to be honest.

1811
01:19:38.240 --> 01:19:40.320
I had a bias when I was 18, 19 years old.

1812
01:19:41.120 --> 01:19:43.440
I was fairly reckless with money.

1813
01:19:44.320 --> 01:19:46.240
And I had these four credit cards.

1814
01:19:46.240 --> 01:19:47.600
I maxed out the credit cards.

1815
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:48.320
I blew the money.

1816
01:19:48.320 --> 01:19:51.440
I got two CCJs, which is a county court judgment in the UK.

1817
01:19:51.920 --> 01:19:54.320
Had huge debts of thousands of thousands of pounds.

1818
01:19:54.320 --> 01:19:58.480
And in my head, I thought it will be fine.

1819
01:19:58.480 --> 01:19:59.680
If I just earn more.

1820
01:20:00.560 --> 01:20:02.960
No, because I'm going to earn so much money.

1821
01:20:03.440 --> 01:20:05.120
But I'll just outpace this problem.

1822
01:20:05.680 --> 01:20:06.800
And that was like my bias.

1823
01:20:06.800 --> 01:20:08.960
My bias was like, I'll just earn loads of money.

1824
01:20:08.960 --> 01:20:11.200
And when I figured out what a credit score was

1825
01:20:11.200 --> 01:20:12.240
and that one was destroyed,

1826
01:20:12.240 --> 01:20:14.320
I thought that wouldn't matter because I always paying cash.

1827
01:20:14.320 --> 01:20:15.840
Yeah. Classic.

1828
01:20:16.720 --> 01:20:19.600
Every couple I speak to who has a spending problem,

1829
01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:21.520
they always say the same thing.

1830
01:20:21.520 --> 01:20:23.120
They go, we just need to earn more.

1831
01:20:23.120 --> 01:20:24.320
And these are the very same couples.

1832
01:20:24.320 --> 01:20:25.680
When we crunch their numbers,

1833
01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:28.160
they'll often realize they were earning way more than they thought.

1834
01:20:28.160 --> 01:20:31.200
And you can see their faces because I have the whole thing on YouTube.

1835
01:20:31.280 --> 01:20:34.480
And it's this realization that, oh my god,

1836
01:20:34.480 --> 01:20:36.320
the story I've been telling myself,

1837
01:20:36.320 --> 01:20:38.560
if we just earned $25,000 more,

1838
01:20:38.560 --> 01:20:42.240
and then they realize we actually are earning 25K more.

1839
01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:44.160
And they don't know what to do with it.

1840
01:20:44.160 --> 01:20:48.320
What I tell them is you could be making $300,000 more right now.

1841
01:20:48.320 --> 01:20:50.560
And it would not make one bit of difference

1842
01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:52.800
because you have a hole in your bucket

1843
01:20:52.800 --> 01:20:54.480
and all the money is going out.

1844
01:20:55.680 --> 01:20:57.520
The next thing I ask over spenders is,

1845
01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:00.800
do you want to make no change, small change, or big changes?

1846
01:21:01.600 --> 01:21:03.120
100% of them say big changes.

1847
01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:05.520
I go, all right, I take them at their word.

1848
01:21:05.520 --> 01:21:06.960
And then we start going down the list.

1849
01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:10.400
And they find it incredibly difficult

1850
01:21:10.960 --> 01:21:13.840
to strip out even the most minor of spending.

1851
01:21:13.840 --> 01:21:15.760
So we have a couple here that will be in

1852
01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:18.160
literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.

1853
01:21:18.160 --> 01:21:21.520
Okay, it's like I'm having a heart attack watching them.

1854
01:21:21.520 --> 01:21:22.720
And they're very calm.

1855
01:21:22.720 --> 01:21:24.560
It's because I understand interest rates

1856
01:21:24.560 --> 01:21:26.000
and I know what situation they're in.

1857
01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:28.720
And so they go big changes.

1858
01:21:29.280 --> 01:21:30.560
Suddenly 10 minutes later,

1859
01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:32.000
we're debating whether they can keep

1860
01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:34.080
their Netflix subscription or not.

1861
01:21:34.080 --> 01:21:36.560
And I go, guys, I'm not here to berate you.

1862
01:21:36.560 --> 01:21:38.480
I'm not the teacher who's telling the kid,

1863
01:21:38.480 --> 01:21:39.520
you've been a bad kid,

1864
01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:41.680
which deep down a lot of them want.

1865
01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:44.960
A lot of us want an authority figure to tell you,

1866
01:21:44.960 --> 01:21:46.480
you've been bad.

1867
01:21:46.480 --> 01:21:48.160
Now we got to be good.

1868
01:21:48.160 --> 01:21:49.360
And that's just not what I do.

1869
01:21:49.360 --> 01:21:51.920
I help them realize it themselves.

1870
01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:53.520
And it goes slower.

1871
01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:54.880
It takes a long time.

1872
01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:57.120
But if they realize it themselves,

1873
01:21:57.120 --> 01:21:58.560
they're able to make the change.

1874
01:21:59.120 --> 01:22:01.440
Every couple says they want to make big changes.

1875
01:22:01.440 --> 01:22:04.240
When it gets down to the spending, it's really difficult.

1876
01:22:04.240 --> 01:22:06.480
That's why you have to be incredibly careful,

1877
01:22:06.480 --> 01:22:10.080
which lifestyle purchases you make

1878
01:22:10.080 --> 01:22:11.760
that are tied to your identity.

1879
01:22:12.480 --> 01:22:14.160
So if you are a car person

1880
01:22:14.160 --> 01:22:16.640
and you're driving a Rolls Royce,

1881
01:22:16.640 --> 01:22:17.520
a really fancy car,

1882
01:22:18.240 --> 01:22:20.800
it will be incredibly difficult for you

1883
01:22:20.800 --> 01:22:21.920
to downgrade that car

1884
01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:23.680
because it's part of your identity.

1885
01:22:23.680 --> 01:22:24.160
Right?

1886
01:22:24.160 --> 01:22:26.400
Meanwhile, like if you have to get cheaper paper towels,

1887
01:22:26.400 --> 01:22:27.760
whatever, nobody cares.

1888
01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:29.440
But you have to be very careful

1889
01:22:29.440 --> 01:22:31.040
about what you allow

1890
01:22:31.040 --> 01:22:32.640
to become part of your identity.

1891
01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:35.360
I'm not saying don't buy nice things.

1892
01:22:35.360 --> 01:22:37.760
And couples, you should buy nice things,

1893
01:22:37.760 --> 01:22:38.800
but do it when you know

1894
01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:40.880
that you can afford to do it forever.

1895
01:22:40.880 --> 01:22:42.560
Don't just do it because,

1896
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:44.080
oh, we want to buy a private school this year,

1897
01:22:44.080 --> 01:22:46.000
but we don't know how to pay for it next year.

1898
01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:49.840
So do you think that couples should make a budget?

1899
01:22:51.360 --> 01:22:52.800
I don't like budgets.

1900
01:22:52.800 --> 01:22:53.760
I don't think they work.

1901
01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:55.600
I think they look backwards.

1902
01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:58.480
Whereas a conscious spending plan looks forward.

1903
01:22:59.040 --> 01:23:01.840
But most couples think deep down,

1904
01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:04.720
we just need to create a budget.

1905
01:23:04.720 --> 01:23:06.320
Isn't a budget the thing you gave me?

1906
01:23:06.320 --> 01:23:06.640
Yeah.

1907
01:23:06.640 --> 01:23:07.760
The 50% 60%.

1908
01:23:07.760 --> 01:23:08.400
Different.

1909
01:23:08.400 --> 01:23:11.040
A budget is couples

1910
01:23:11.040 --> 01:23:14.000
tracking every last line item.

1911
01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:16.160
They're tracking how much they spent on corn.

1912
01:23:16.160 --> 01:23:18.480
They're tracking how much they spend on diapers.

1913
01:23:18.480 --> 01:23:20.080
Someone has to create

1914
01:23:20.080 --> 01:23:22.000
and track this laborious spreadsheet.

1915
01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:23.040
And then at the end of the month,

1916
01:23:23.040 --> 01:23:24.080
they look at it and they go,

1917
01:23:25.040 --> 01:23:27.440
oh, I guess we spent that much.

1918
01:23:28.320 --> 01:23:29.360
What are you supposed to do with that?

1919
01:23:30.080 --> 01:23:31.200
Most couples have no idea.

1920
01:23:31.840 --> 01:23:34.640
Does this budget tell you when you're going to be a millionaire?

1921
01:23:34.640 --> 01:23:36.480
Does it tell you what your net worth is?

1922
01:23:36.480 --> 01:23:38.400
Does it tell you if you have enough?

1923
01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:40.480
No.

1924
01:23:40.480 --> 01:23:41.680
It doesn't stack up to anything.

1925
01:23:41.680 --> 01:23:43.600
It's just a bunch of numbers tracking.

1926
01:23:44.160 --> 01:23:45.520
Budgets look backwards.

1927
01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:47.680
A conscious spending plan looks forward.

1928
01:23:47.680 --> 01:23:51.360
So a conscious spending plan allows you to zoom out

1929
01:23:51.440 --> 01:23:54.880
and say, what is the vision for our rich life?

1930
01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:59.920
How do we pick the things we want to spend extravagantly on

1931
01:24:00.400 --> 01:24:02.240
and cost mercilessly on the things we don't?

1932
01:24:02.240 --> 01:24:03.520
So I give you these numbers.

1933
01:24:03.520 --> 01:24:05.600
50% to 60% for fixed costs.

1934
01:24:05.600 --> 01:24:07.440
It's up to you how you want to hit the number.

1935
01:24:07.440 --> 01:24:08.640
If you love your house,

1936
01:24:08.640 --> 01:24:10.240
you want to spend more on your house?

1937
01:24:10.240 --> 01:24:11.040
Do it.

1938
01:24:11.040 --> 01:24:13.520
Maybe it means you spend less on your car payment.

1939
01:24:14.240 --> 01:24:16.960
If you want to go to concerts,

1940
01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:18.320
but you don't care about eating out,

1941
01:24:18.320 --> 01:24:19.200
fantastic.

1942
01:24:19.200 --> 01:24:20.640
Take the trip, go see Taylor Swift.

1943
01:24:21.440 --> 01:24:24.240
So it's up to you to make the Tetris pieces fit,

1944
01:24:24.240 --> 01:24:28.000
but you decide and all your money flows for those four numbers.

1945
01:24:29.200 --> 01:24:31.840
How do we go about teaching our kids about money?

1946
01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:32.960
My older brother,

1947
01:24:32.960 --> 01:24:34.480
and the one that works in our company,

1948
01:24:34.480 --> 01:24:36.320
he has three kids under the age of six.

1949
01:24:36.320 --> 01:24:36.960
Oh.

1950
01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:38.960
And I'm wondering because he's such an optimizer,

1951
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:40.400
are they going to end up being optimizers?

1952
01:24:40.400 --> 01:24:42.720
Is there a relationship between our parents and our kids?

1953
01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:45.280
If I want to, when I do have my kids,

1954
01:24:45.280 --> 01:24:48.640
how do I make sure that they aren't warriors or avoiders?

1955
01:24:49.600 --> 01:24:53.360
The number one thing that the couples in financial trouble say

1956
01:24:54.240 --> 01:24:55.280
is when they were growing up,

1957
01:24:56.160 --> 01:24:57.600
their parents never talked about money.

1958
01:24:58.480 --> 01:24:59.280
Never.

1959
01:24:59.280 --> 01:25:03.760
There was an episode on our podcast with this couple living in Kansas

1960
01:25:03.760 --> 01:25:05.520
in a low cost of living area,

1961
01:25:06.160 --> 01:25:09.360
and they were making $130,000 a year.

1962
01:25:09.360 --> 01:25:10.800
That's a very good income,

1963
01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:12.720
especially for their area.

1964
01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:15.040
They should have had tons of money,

1965
01:25:15.040 --> 01:25:16.320
tons of savings,

1966
01:25:16.400 --> 01:25:21.680
but their daughter came home one day with food from the school

1967
01:25:21.680 --> 01:25:23.760
because she had told her school,

1968
01:25:23.760 --> 01:25:25.600
we don't have enough money to eat.

1969
01:25:26.320 --> 01:25:28.400
Now, they had plenty of money.

1970
01:25:28.400 --> 01:25:29.120
Why?

1971
01:25:29.120 --> 01:25:31.520
Because her mom and dad were always saying,

1972
01:25:31.520 --> 01:25:33.360
we don't have enough, we can't afford it.

1973
01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:36.400
Daughter took that message to school

1974
01:25:36.400 --> 01:25:37.920
and was given free food.

1975
01:25:37.920 --> 01:25:40.720
This was horrifying to the dad, horrifying.

1976
01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:43.920
And what he realized at that moment was

1977
01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:47.520
the way that I'm communicating about money is not working.

1978
01:25:48.560 --> 01:25:53.840
See, most parents deep down believe that money is something to protect kids from.

1979
01:25:54.560 --> 01:25:56.560
They think it's bad, deep down.

1980
01:25:56.560 --> 01:26:00.000
Most Americans, we have a love-hate relationship with money,

1981
01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:03.280
but parents think their kids let them be kids.

1982
01:26:03.840 --> 01:26:07.200
But you would never teach a kid how to ride a bike by saying,

1983
01:26:07.200 --> 01:26:09.120
we don't talk about bikes in this family.

1984
01:26:10.320 --> 01:26:12.320
You would get them a bike,

1985
01:26:12.320 --> 01:26:14.400
you would get them on, you would show them how to do it,

1986
01:26:14.400 --> 01:26:16.800
you would let them fall and then you would help them get up again.

1987
01:26:17.280 --> 01:26:18.800
So imagine this with your kids.

1988
01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:21.440
Imagine that they are three years old.

1989
01:26:21.440 --> 01:26:24.560
Young, you pull them up, sit them, you say,

1990
01:26:24.560 --> 01:26:26.240
look, can you help me push this button?

1991
01:26:26.240 --> 01:26:28.000
We're going to pay for the rent.

1992
01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:29.120
This is for our beautiful house.

1993
01:26:29.120 --> 01:26:30.320
Help me push that button.

1994
01:26:30.320 --> 01:26:31.920
Yay, give them five.

1995
01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:35.200
Okay, getting them involved right from the get-go.

1996
01:26:35.200 --> 01:26:37.280
And this is, if they're living with two parents,

1997
01:26:37.280 --> 01:26:38.800
this is mom and dad.

1998
01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:40.240
You want them to see both

1999
01:26:40.320 --> 01:26:45.920
because too often people only see mom worrying about the bills.

2000
01:26:45.920 --> 01:26:49.440
And so they come to associate mom with worrying.

2001
01:26:49.440 --> 01:26:50.800
And therefore if it's their daughter,

2002
01:26:50.800 --> 01:26:53.360
they think they are supposed to worry as well.

2003
01:26:53.360 --> 01:26:56.640
Now imagine the kid is eight, ten years old.

2004
01:26:56.640 --> 01:26:58.320
You say, hey, we have to go to the grocery store.

2005
01:26:58.320 --> 01:26:59.200
Here's a hundred dollars.

2006
01:26:59.200 --> 01:27:00.480
We need to get all these things.

2007
01:27:00.480 --> 01:27:01.360
How should we do it?

2008
01:27:02.160 --> 01:27:03.680
Let them, let them make mistakes.

2009
01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:05.280
They're going to forget about taxes.

2010
01:27:05.280 --> 01:27:07.280
Let them learn, right?

2011
01:27:07.280 --> 01:27:08.080
They get a little older.

2012
01:27:08.080 --> 01:27:12.800
They're planning a pizza or a restaurant for the family.

2013
01:27:12.800 --> 01:27:14.480
Here's a hundred dollars for dinner.

2014
01:27:14.480 --> 01:27:16.960
Problem is they're going to pick some place like Chili's.

2015
01:27:16.960 --> 01:27:19.840
It's horrible, but you got to go let them learn their lesson.

2016
01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:22.720
By the time they are sixteen years old,

2017
01:27:22.720 --> 01:27:25.680
they have planned a family vacation.

2018
01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:29.280
They are aware of trade-offs, taxes, tips, all kinds of stuff.

2019
01:27:29.280 --> 01:27:31.520
They have helped the family buy its new car.

2020
01:27:32.240 --> 01:27:34.720
This is how you prepare kids.

2021
01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:38.160
You don't simply say we don't talk about money in this family.

2022
01:27:38.160 --> 01:27:40.560
You let them learn about money,

2023
01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:43.120
and you tell them what you've learned about money.

2024
01:27:43.120 --> 01:27:44.160
That's how you teach them.

2025
01:27:44.160 --> 01:27:46.640
I'm somewhat scared of my kids being sport brats.

2026
01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:47.840
And I say to my partner sometimes,

2027
01:27:47.840 --> 01:27:50.000
I'm like, if when we have kids,

2028
01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:54.560
should we be putting the kids in the back of the plane?

2029
01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:55.600
Oh, yeah.

2030
01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:58.080
Or should we up front with us?

2031
01:27:58.080 --> 01:27:58.880
Like, what's the deal?

2032
01:27:58.880 --> 01:27:59.840
Well, I'll tell you what,

2033
01:28:00.800 --> 01:28:05.040
I went to public school my entire childhood,

2034
01:28:05.040 --> 01:28:08.720
and then I got a bunch of scholarships and went to a private school

2035
01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:10.240
and for college.

2036
01:28:10.240 --> 01:28:12.240
And at that college,

2037
01:28:12.240 --> 01:28:16.720
I remember in the first week so many of the beliefs I had about money

2038
01:28:16.720 --> 01:28:18.320
and kids were shattered.

2039
01:28:18.320 --> 01:28:21.120
I had always assumed that if you went to a private school,

2040
01:28:21.120 --> 01:28:24.400
you were spoiled and you didn't really like to work.

2041
01:28:25.200 --> 01:28:28.480
Within three days, I realized that was totally untrue.

2042
01:28:28.560 --> 01:28:30.880
Like, some kids are spoiled, some are not.

2043
01:28:30.880 --> 01:28:34.800
The correlation with private school, not really there.

2044
01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:37.120
It's about parents.

2045
01:28:37.120 --> 01:28:38.320
It's about how they were taught.

2046
01:28:38.320 --> 01:28:40.640
And it's also about some element of luck as well.

2047
01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:42.880
But can you teach kids not to be spoiled?

2048
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:47.840
Yes, there are so many wealthy kids who grew up not entitled

2049
01:28:47.840 --> 01:28:49.360
appreciating what they have.

2050
01:28:49.360 --> 01:28:50.480
And the parents were still like,

2051
01:28:50.480 --> 01:28:51.920
hey, I want to go to a nice hotel.

2052
01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:54.960
How do you raise kids that aren't spoiled, you think?

2053
01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:57.760
So start at the very beginning when you're teaching them

2054
01:28:57.760 --> 01:28:59.600
about, let's do this together.

2055
01:28:59.600 --> 01:29:01.680
Money is something that we all do together.

2056
01:29:01.680 --> 01:29:03.680
Now imagine that when you're talking to your family,

2057
01:29:03.680 --> 01:29:06.640
just the same way we talk about creating a healthy relationship

2058
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:07.920
with food, right?

2059
01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:10.400
How do you teach your kids to have a healthy relationship with food?

2060
01:29:10.400 --> 01:29:12.080
You talk about it all the time.

2061
01:29:12.080 --> 01:29:13.360
You go to the grocery store together,

2062
01:29:13.360 --> 01:29:16.080
you cut carrots together and potatoes and you say,

2063
01:29:16.080 --> 01:29:17.840
this is why we're putting potatoes in this thing.

2064
01:29:18.720 --> 01:29:20.240
But we never do that with money.

2065
01:29:20.240 --> 01:29:21.920
So you have a healthy relationship with money

2066
01:29:21.920 --> 01:29:23.200
by shining a light on it,

2067
01:29:23.280 --> 01:29:24.960
by talking and asking them questions.

2068
01:29:25.760 --> 01:29:28.080
Do you know how we afford this house?

2069
01:29:29.360 --> 01:29:31.760
What's a good thing to do with credit cards

2070
01:29:31.760 --> 01:29:33.760
and what's a bad thing to do with credit cards?

2071
01:29:34.320 --> 01:29:36.800
Hey, what do you think that we have 200 bucks

2072
01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:38.800
and we want to give it to a worthy cause?

2073
01:29:39.440 --> 01:29:40.160
How should we do it?

2074
01:29:40.160 --> 01:29:40.880
How should we pick?

2075
01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:44.960
These are the kind of conversations that families should be having.

2076
01:29:45.600 --> 01:29:48.400
And when kids start to engage with money

2077
01:29:48.400 --> 01:29:50.960
and they see parents doing it and they realize

2078
01:29:50.960 --> 01:29:53.360
it's not something to be ashamed of or hidden from.

2079
01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:55.200
They go, oh my gosh.

2080
01:29:55.200 --> 01:29:58.000
Like, I have some agency over this, some control.

2081
01:29:58.000 --> 01:29:59.680
That's how you prevent them from being spoiled.

2082
01:30:00.160 --> 01:30:01.200
If you've got kids yet?

2083
01:30:01.200 --> 01:30:01.840
No.

2084
01:30:01.840 --> 01:30:03.600
When you have kids, if your kids come to you

2085
01:30:03.600 --> 01:30:06.160
and they say, Dad, I want to be rich.

2086
01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:07.680
Love it.

2087
01:30:07.680 --> 01:30:09.680
Love it. I would say, what does rich mean to you?

2088
01:30:09.680 --> 01:30:11.680
It means being able to have financial freedom

2089
01:30:11.680 --> 01:30:14.000
so not having to look at price tags when I go to restaurants

2090
01:30:14.000 --> 01:30:16.800
or shops or when I'm browsing Amazon.

2091
01:30:16.800 --> 01:30:17.840
I can just take care of myself.

2092
01:30:17.840 --> 01:30:19.200
I can live somewhere nice, drive my card,

2093
01:30:19.200 --> 01:30:20.560
go on holiday when I want.

2094
01:30:20.640 --> 01:30:21.360
It's freedom.

2095
01:30:22.560 --> 01:30:24.160
What is the most important thing

2096
01:30:24.160 --> 01:30:25.280
that I should be thinking about

2097
01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:28.000
to create that wealth and preserve it

2098
01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:29.360
so that I can be rich?

2099
01:30:30.960 --> 01:30:32.720
Well, you'll first notice that

2100
01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:35.120
when this hypothetical kid said,

2101
01:30:35.120 --> 01:30:38.080
I want to be rich, what was my response?

2102
01:30:38.080 --> 01:30:39.040
Would you mean my rich?

2103
01:30:39.040 --> 01:30:40.400
Yeah, amazing.

2104
01:30:40.400 --> 01:30:41.680
What do you mean by rich?

2105
01:30:41.680 --> 01:30:44.320
So excitement and curiosity.

2106
01:30:44.880 --> 01:30:45.760
The opposite would be,

2107
01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:47.680
why do you want to be rich?

2108
01:30:47.680 --> 01:30:48.560
You don't need to be rich.

2109
01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:49.760
That's not for people like us.

2110
01:30:50.560 --> 01:30:51.840
Squashing those dreams.

2111
01:30:51.840 --> 01:30:54.480
So when like my nephew,

2112
01:30:55.760 --> 01:30:58.080
a few thanks givings ago, he was young and he said,

2113
01:30:58.080 --> 01:30:59.360
I want to buy a Rolex.

2114
01:31:00.720 --> 01:31:01.600
Amazing.

2115
01:31:01.600 --> 01:31:02.320
Where'd you get that?

2116
01:31:02.320 --> 01:31:04.320
Tell me what kind of Rolex?

2117
01:31:04.320 --> 01:31:05.200
How are you going to do it?

2118
01:31:05.200 --> 01:31:06.400
How much is it going to cost?

2119
01:31:06.400 --> 01:31:08.480
How much do you have to save to put that aside?

2120
01:31:08.480 --> 01:31:10.240
That's encouraging kids.

2121
01:31:10.240 --> 01:31:12.560
Now they can figure out these trade-offs later.

2122
01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:14.560
But just encouraging them first off

2123
01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:16.080
is the first thing we do with kids

2124
01:31:16.080 --> 01:31:17.440
when they talk about money.

2125
01:31:17.440 --> 01:31:18.720
Kids are smart.

2126
01:31:18.720 --> 01:31:22.320
They notice by age three, four, or five

2127
01:31:22.320 --> 01:31:23.760
how their parents feel about money.

2128
01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:25.520
I talk to parents all the time

2129
01:31:25.520 --> 01:31:27.680
and I speak to my own family

2130
01:31:27.680 --> 01:31:29.440
and their parents of younger kids.

2131
01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:33.360
They'll tell me my four-year-old is already worried about money.

2132
01:31:33.360 --> 01:31:34.720
Every time she gets a little bit of money,

2133
01:31:34.720 --> 01:31:36.000
she puts it in envelope and saves it

2134
01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:38.240
because she's always worried about having enough.

2135
01:31:38.240 --> 01:31:39.760
I go, wow, that's tough.

2136
01:31:41.360 --> 01:31:42.480
Where do you think she got that from?

2137
01:31:43.200 --> 01:31:45.680
And then mom starts crying.

2138
01:31:46.480 --> 01:31:47.360
Always.

2139
01:31:47.440 --> 01:31:52.240
I can have a very difficult financial situation.

2140
01:31:52.960 --> 01:31:56.000
Two parents, they'll be in $150,000 of credit card debt.

2141
01:31:57.120 --> 01:31:58.320
They're stoic about it.

2142
01:31:58.320 --> 01:31:59.360
They ignore it.

2143
01:31:59.360 --> 01:32:00.080
We talk about it.

2144
01:32:00.080 --> 01:32:01.120
They engage.

2145
01:32:01.120 --> 01:32:04.400
But the minute I bring up the kids, tears.

2146
01:32:05.040 --> 01:32:06.400
And the reason for that is that

2147
01:32:07.280 --> 01:32:09.760
you can take on a lot of burden yourself.

2148
01:32:09.760 --> 01:32:11.680
But when you realize that your behavior

2149
01:32:11.680 --> 01:32:13.280
is being passed onto your kids,

2150
01:32:14.240 --> 01:32:15.760
that is really difficult.

2151
01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:18.880
And that's why couples can get on the same page

2152
01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:20.800
and build a healthy relationship

2153
01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:22.080
for their kids as well.

2154
01:32:22.080 --> 01:32:23.680
So what would you say then to your kid?

2155
01:32:23.680 --> 01:32:24.560
Says, Dad, I want to be rich.

2156
01:32:24.560 --> 01:32:25.520
You said, amazing.

2157
01:32:25.520 --> 01:32:26.000
Great.

2158
01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:26.400
Yeah.

2159
01:32:26.400 --> 01:32:27.520
Tell me what it means.

2160
01:32:27.520 --> 01:32:29.040
And they say, what are the principles for

2161
01:32:29.040 --> 01:32:30.080
wealth creation, Dad,

2162
01:32:30.080 --> 01:32:32.400
in keeping that money so that I can be financially free?

2163
01:32:32.400 --> 01:32:34.080
It would be, number one,

2164
01:32:34.080 --> 01:32:36.880
you have to find something you love to do.

2165
01:32:36.880 --> 01:32:37.680
Work hard.

2166
01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:38.800
You have to love to work,

2167
01:32:38.800 --> 01:32:40.480
okay, in your own way, whatever it is.

2168
01:32:40.480 --> 01:32:45.040
Two, automatically invest every single month, right?

2169
01:32:45.120 --> 01:32:46.160
That's great.

2170
01:32:46.160 --> 01:32:50.000
And number three, you have to enjoy money.

2171
01:32:50.720 --> 01:32:52.960
Enjoy it, not just making it,

2172
01:32:52.960 --> 01:32:55.360
not just managing it, but also spending it.

2173
01:32:55.360 --> 01:32:57.360
And if they said, Dad, should I get credit cards?

2174
01:32:57.360 --> 01:32:58.240
I said, sure.

2175
01:32:58.240 --> 01:32:58.960
Of course.

2176
01:32:58.960 --> 01:33:00.880
When the time is right, you should get a credit card.

2177
01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:03.840
You should always pay it off every month,

2178
01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:04.960
but you should get a credit card.

2179
01:33:04.960 --> 01:33:06.960
And when you start to spend enough,

2180
01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:08.480
probably get a rewards card.

2181
01:33:08.480 --> 01:33:10.720
You can get some free trips or cash back out of it.

2182
01:33:11.600 --> 01:33:13.920
Notice that I'm not being restrictive.

2183
01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:15.680
If they say, I want to buy coffee every day,

2184
01:33:15.680 --> 01:33:16.880
I would say fantastic.

2185
01:33:16.880 --> 01:33:18.800
Let's talk about how you can earn enough,

2186
01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:20.960
so you never have to worry about coffee.

2187
01:33:20.960 --> 01:33:24.000
If they even said to me, I want to buy a Lamborghini.

2188
01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:25.760
I'm not a Lamborghini guy, I couldn't care less.

2189
01:33:26.640 --> 01:33:28.080
I would say, amazing.

2190
01:33:28.080 --> 01:33:29.520
How do you think you could do that?

2191
01:33:29.520 --> 01:33:31.200
And what if they said, oh, um,

2192
01:33:31.200 --> 01:33:32.720
you know, I want to be a school teacher?

2193
01:33:32.720 --> 01:33:34.320
I'd say, okay, you know,

2194
01:33:34.320 --> 01:33:35.840
have you talked to any school teachers

2195
01:33:35.840 --> 01:33:37.520
and asked them how much they make?

2196
01:33:37.520 --> 01:33:40.400
Then calculate how long it would take you

2197
01:33:40.400 --> 01:33:41.680
to buy a Lamborghini.

2198
01:33:41.680 --> 01:33:42.640
Kids are smart.

2199
01:33:42.720 --> 01:33:44.240
They can do these things.

2200
01:33:44.240 --> 01:33:45.840
We just have to challenge them.

2201
01:33:45.840 --> 01:33:47.360
They say, Dad, I've only got my pocket money.

2202
01:33:47.360 --> 01:33:49.360
So how am I going to become an investor?

2203
01:33:49.360 --> 01:33:50.720
I don't have enough money yet.

2204
01:33:50.720 --> 01:33:51.840
How much do you need to invest?

2205
01:33:52.560 --> 01:33:54.400
I assume you need like thousands of pounds.

2206
01:33:54.400 --> 01:33:58.080
Oh, what if I told you you only need to start with a hundred dollars?

2207
01:33:58.080 --> 01:33:59.040
I don't have a hundred dollars.

2208
01:33:59.040 --> 01:34:00.640
I have seven pounds pocket money.

2209
01:34:00.640 --> 01:34:02.880
Have you asked anyone else

2210
01:34:02.880 --> 01:34:05.120
how you could make an extra $93?

2211
01:34:06.880 --> 01:34:07.680
No, okay.

2212
01:34:07.680 --> 01:34:10.080
What could you do to ask them to make $93?

2213
01:34:10.080 --> 01:34:10.640
What could you do?

2214
01:34:11.280 --> 01:34:12.400
Clean the cause of the street.

2215
01:34:12.400 --> 01:34:13.440
Keep going.

2216
01:34:13.440 --> 01:34:14.320
I pay per round.

2217
01:34:14.320 --> 01:34:15.280
And on and on and on.

2218
01:34:15.280 --> 01:34:17.200
So here, I'm not giving them the answer.

2219
01:34:17.200 --> 01:34:19.520
I'm challenging them to learn how to think for themselves.

2220
01:34:19.520 --> 01:34:21.680
And to make $93 for a kid,

2221
01:34:21.680 --> 01:34:22.160
you could do it.

2222
01:34:22.160 --> 01:34:23.360
It won't happen in one day,

2223
01:34:23.360 --> 01:34:25.120
but you could do it very, very quickly.

2224
01:34:25.120 --> 01:34:27.520
How much money do you think you need to start investing?

2225
01:34:28.240 --> 01:34:30.240
You should start investing as soon as you can.

2226
01:34:30.240 --> 01:34:31.920
You could start investing with $50 a month.

2227
01:34:33.280 --> 01:34:35.920
My dad helped me open up a custodial account

2228
01:34:35.920 --> 01:34:37.440
when I was 14 years old.

2229
01:34:37.440 --> 01:34:38.720
So I started investing then.

2230
01:34:38.720 --> 01:34:40.480
And my dad immigrated from India.

2231
01:34:40.480 --> 01:34:43.040
So I was very lucky that he pushed me.

2232
01:34:44.320 --> 01:34:45.200
But if you're a parent,

2233
01:34:45.840 --> 01:34:48.720
you should definitely be getting your kids to invest early.

2234
01:34:48.720 --> 01:34:51.520
Even $50 a month makes a huge difference.

2235
01:34:51.520 --> 01:34:52.720
So you invested at 14?

2236
01:34:52.720 --> 01:34:53.040
Yeah.

2237
01:34:53.040 --> 01:34:54.400
And I've been investing ever since.

2238
01:34:54.400 --> 01:34:55.760
And how did that do for you?

2239
01:34:55.760 --> 01:34:56.800
Fantastic.

2240
01:34:56.800 --> 01:34:57.520
You know why?

2241
01:34:57.520 --> 01:34:58.560
Because I sold,

2242
01:34:58.560 --> 01:35:00.720
I never sold almost anything.

2243
01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:01.760
It just stayed.

2244
01:35:02.560 --> 01:35:03.920
Every single investment,

2245
01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:05.040
every single month.

2246
01:35:05.040 --> 01:35:06.080
No magic,

2247
01:35:06.080 --> 01:35:08.560
no random, like amazing stockpicks,

2248
01:35:08.560 --> 01:35:10.240
except for a couple lucky ones.

2249
01:35:10.240 --> 01:35:13.680
It's just basically almost all index funds,

2250
01:35:13.680 --> 01:35:14.960
just every single month.

2251
01:35:14.960 --> 01:35:15.760
What about crypto?

2252
01:35:16.800 --> 01:35:19.040
I mean, if you want to have it as one

2253
01:35:19.040 --> 01:35:23.360
to 5% of your portfolio as speculation, fantastic.

2254
01:35:23.360 --> 01:35:24.960
The problem is that crypto investors,

2255
01:35:24.960 --> 01:35:27.680
I talk to don't believe in diversification.

2256
01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:30.080
They will often have all their money in it.

2257
01:35:30.080 --> 01:35:32.080
And they don't really,

2258
01:35:32.080 --> 01:35:34.960
they don't follow classic principles of investing.

2259
01:35:34.960 --> 01:35:36.080
And the worst part is,

2260
01:35:37.280 --> 01:35:39.600
it's hard to argue when it's done so well.

2261
01:35:40.320 --> 01:35:41.120
So people go like,

2262
01:35:41.120 --> 01:35:42.080
what the fuck do you know?

2263
01:35:42.080 --> 01:35:44.400
7% that sucks grandpa.

2264
01:35:44.400 --> 01:35:45.360
And I go, all right,

2265
01:35:46.160 --> 01:35:48.320
fine, it has performed incredibly well,

2266
01:35:48.320 --> 01:35:51.200
at least in certain parts of crypto.

2267
01:35:51.840 --> 01:35:54.320
But you do not want to have the majority of your assets

2268
01:35:54.320 --> 01:35:55.360
in one thing.

2269
01:35:55.360 --> 01:35:57.040
And it's the problem with crypto as well as you only hear

2270
01:35:57.040 --> 01:35:58.080
when it's doing well.

2271
01:35:58.080 --> 01:35:58.560
Exactly.

2272
01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:01.120
So whenever the bare market comes in,

2273
01:36:01.120 --> 01:36:02.080
everybody goes quite quiet.

2274
01:36:02.080 --> 01:36:02.800
They get very quiet.

2275
01:36:02.800 --> 01:36:03.840
Where'd you go, guys?

2276
01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:05.520
Sometimes I follow them on Twitter.

2277
01:36:05.520 --> 01:36:07.360
Half the time their account is deleted.

2278
01:36:08.880 --> 01:36:10.640
That's called survivorship bias.

2279
01:36:10.640 --> 01:36:12.800
You only hear about things when they're good.

2280
01:36:12.800 --> 01:36:13.840
The minute it's back,

2281
01:36:14.480 --> 01:36:16.800
account deleted, never heard from them again.

2282
01:36:16.800 --> 01:36:17.840
What about gambling?

2283
01:36:17.840 --> 01:36:19.760
You must see some gambling in relationships.

2284
01:36:19.760 --> 01:36:21.920
I'm not sure how legal gambling is in every state

2285
01:36:21.920 --> 01:36:22.960
over here in the USA,

2286
01:36:22.960 --> 01:36:25.200
but in the UK gambling is legal.

2287
01:36:25.200 --> 01:36:29.600
So it's often an issue in relationships, a quiet issue.

2288
01:36:29.600 --> 01:36:30.800
Yeah, it is a quiet issue.

2289
01:36:30.800 --> 01:36:33.440
I think I don't hear about it too often.

2290
01:36:33.440 --> 01:36:38.080
I suspect that gamblers simply don't want to talk about it,

2291
01:36:38.080 --> 01:36:39.920
which is actually the worst of all.

2292
01:36:40.480 --> 01:36:42.720
Maybe I need to find a way to reach some gamblers.

2293
01:36:42.720 --> 01:36:44.320
I mean, we do hear some really tragic stuff.

2294
01:36:44.320 --> 01:36:47.120
We hear about folks who have lost money

2295
01:36:47.120 --> 01:36:49.520
on bad investments late in life.

2296
01:36:49.520 --> 01:36:53.360
We hear about parents whose kids are bleeding them dry.

2297
01:36:53.360 --> 01:36:55.840
But we also hear about some really positive things.

2298
01:36:55.840 --> 01:37:00.400
You know, couples who have quietly accumulated money over time,

2299
01:37:01.280 --> 01:37:03.680
and they just don't realize we made it.

2300
01:37:04.240 --> 01:37:06.960
And sometimes I get to do the very pleasant thing of saying,

2301
01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:09.200
like, hey, you two clearly love each other.

2302
01:37:10.400 --> 01:37:11.680
You've done this together.

2303
01:37:12.480 --> 01:37:13.120
You made it.

2304
01:37:13.920 --> 01:37:15.760
Have you ever seen marriages full of pop

2305
01:37:15.760 --> 01:37:17.760
because of these issues?

2306
01:37:17.760 --> 01:37:20.960
We've had couples break up directly after our podcast.

2307
01:37:21.600 --> 01:37:24.320
Marriages, of course, I get emails all the time.

2308
01:37:24.320 --> 01:37:27.440
The reason that we broke up was money.

2309
01:37:27.440 --> 01:37:28.480
But you know what's interesting?

2310
01:37:28.560 --> 01:37:31.280
Research shows, which I cite in the book,

2311
01:37:31.280 --> 01:37:34.880
that when couples fight, they don't fight about money.

2312
01:37:35.360 --> 01:37:36.240
You know what they fight about?

2313
01:37:37.040 --> 01:37:40.800
Kids, chores, and communication.

2314
01:37:41.680 --> 01:37:44.240
Money is rarely talked about.

2315
01:37:45.200 --> 01:37:48.080
It's only talked about when there's a fight.

2316
01:37:48.080 --> 01:37:52.240
But it's the least of what people are typically arguing about.

2317
01:37:52.240 --> 01:37:55.200
Kids, chores, communication, that's what gets fought about.

2318
01:37:55.200 --> 01:37:55.840
Unremantic.

2319
01:37:55.840 --> 01:37:57.680
There was a scene as being, you know,

2320
01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:00.320
there's a stigma that they're talking about money.

2321
01:38:00.320 --> 01:38:01.840
Yeah, which is crazy.

2322
01:38:01.840 --> 01:38:04.320
I encourage couples to have a monthly money meeting.

2323
01:38:04.320 --> 01:38:06.240
I even give them an exact agenda.

2324
01:38:06.240 --> 01:38:07.440
Here's the Google Doc.

2325
01:38:07.440 --> 01:38:08.000
Work it out.

2326
01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:09.360
Adaptive for your own needs.

2327
01:38:09.360 --> 01:38:10.800
Start off with a compliment.

2328
01:38:10.800 --> 01:38:14.080
You know, I really appreciated that you plan that trip for us

2329
01:38:14.080 --> 01:38:16.880
to the grandparents, like you did such a great job with flights.

2330
01:38:16.880 --> 01:38:17.680
Start off like that.

2331
01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:20.560
People look at me like I'm speaking, cling on to them.

2332
01:38:21.360 --> 01:38:24.720
An agenda for my wife, for my husband.

2333
01:38:24.720 --> 01:38:25.360
I go, what?

2334
01:38:25.360 --> 01:38:26.400
They go, that's weird.

2335
01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:29.920
I go, I think it's weird for you to go 40 years

2336
01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:32.960
fighting about money, never talking about it,

2337
01:38:32.960 --> 01:38:36.880
never creating a vision instead of using an agenda.

2338
01:38:36.880 --> 01:38:41.600
It's so interesting, because much of the issues in my household growing up were money related.

2339
01:38:41.600 --> 01:38:48.320
So my mother and father, and there is no way that my mother had any idea how much money my

2340
01:38:48.320 --> 01:38:50.880
dad had or how much money the household had.

2341
01:38:50.880 --> 01:38:51.440
Wow.

2342
01:38:51.440 --> 01:38:53.120
And I really, as you were saying, now I thought,

2343
01:38:53.120 --> 01:38:56.880
if they just sat down once and had that conversation,

2344
01:38:56.880 --> 01:38:58.720
like how much money do we actually have here?

2345
01:38:59.520 --> 01:39:03.120
Wow, our childhood would have been so drastically different.

2346
01:39:04.160 --> 01:39:06.800
Let's pause for a minute to talk about today's sponsor, which is,

2347
01:39:08.240 --> 01:39:12.880
I often think how lucky we are to live in a time where we can so easily access information

2348
01:39:12.880 --> 01:39:17.840
on how our body is performing, but it also makes me wonder how many of us are really

2349
01:39:17.840 --> 01:39:19.360
utilising this technology.

2350
01:39:19.360 --> 01:39:23.280
A couple of years ago, I started wearing a Woop, a device that monitors

2351
01:39:23.280 --> 01:39:27.280
how activities and behaviours affect my sleep, my training, my recovery and my stress.

2352
01:39:27.280 --> 01:39:30.640
I'm currently midway through Woop's Sobroctober Challenge,

2353
01:39:30.640 --> 01:39:33.200
and this month, if I compare it to a time when I used to drink,

2354
01:39:33.200 --> 01:39:36.080
my stress levels are significantly lower.

2355
01:39:36.080 --> 01:39:38.720
If you like me and you're aiming to be the best version of yourself,

2356
01:39:38.720 --> 01:39:40.800
then you have to go and check out Woop.

2357
01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:44.400
Head to join.woop.com slash CEO to start your free trial today,

2358
01:39:44.400 --> 01:39:46.640
and if you're already a Woop member taking part in this challenge,

2359
01:39:46.640 --> 01:39:49.760
do me a favour, send me a DM, a message, and let me know how you're getting on.

2360
01:39:50.960 --> 01:39:54.320
Jay, you said you are at a point where you now think you have enough,

2361
01:39:54.320 --> 01:39:57.280
but you're still striving for more and some investing,

2362
01:39:57.280 --> 01:39:59.760
and some earning, and some waking up every day in driving.

2363
01:39:59.760 --> 01:40:00.240
Then why?

2364
01:40:01.760 --> 01:40:03.760
I like it. I love what I do. I love working.

2365
01:40:06.480 --> 01:40:11.600
The more that I make, the more that it is a sign I'm creating value,

2366
01:40:12.240 --> 01:40:16.720
that's it. But I systematically earn more, like I have my rules.

2367
01:40:16.720 --> 01:40:19.840
So, for example, unexpected income that comes in,

2368
01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:22.800
70 to 90% of that will be invested.

2369
01:40:23.520 --> 01:40:25.760
Meaning, like, I'll take 10% and have a good time,

2370
01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:28.960
but I'm primarily investing, unexpected income.

2371
01:40:28.960 --> 01:40:32.320
Question, then, if you got a $100 million windfall,

2372
01:40:32.320 --> 01:40:34.560
yeah, how would your life change?

2373
01:40:36.800 --> 01:40:38.560
It's hard to say I have a very good life.

2374
01:40:39.280 --> 01:40:40.160
I...

2375
01:40:40.160 --> 01:40:41.920
$100 million comes in. What are you going to do with it?

2376
01:40:45.920 --> 01:40:49.440
I mean, it's going to change almost nothing.

2377
01:40:49.440 --> 01:40:57.840
I would accelerate some of my plans for charity for a house,

2378
01:40:57.840 --> 01:41:01.760
because I would have the house drawn up,

2379
01:41:01.760 --> 01:41:03.760
even though I don't even want to buy a house anytime soon.

2380
01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:05.520
I would probably have the house drawn up,

2381
01:41:05.600 --> 01:41:06.800
and then I would say,

2382
01:41:06.800 --> 01:41:08.880
call me when it's ready to move in,

2383
01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:10.400
and don't call me before then.

2384
01:41:10.400 --> 01:41:12.320
I want nothing to do with building it.

2385
01:41:12.320 --> 01:41:14.960
I don't want to see a piece of wood go over there.

2386
01:41:16.080 --> 01:41:17.040
Why would you buy a house?

2387
01:41:17.680 --> 01:41:19.520
Purely because what else are you going to do with the money?

2388
01:41:19.520 --> 01:41:20.240
Of course, give away.

2389
01:41:21.440 --> 01:41:23.680
You got to spend the money somehow, but...

2390
01:41:23.680 --> 01:41:24.800
It's a warehouse.

2391
01:41:24.800 --> 01:41:25.840
What else are you going to do with it?

2392
01:41:26.480 --> 01:41:27.680
Just save it.

2393
01:41:27.680 --> 01:41:28.880
I already saved it.

2394
01:41:28.880 --> 01:41:30.160
I already invested it.

2395
01:41:30.160 --> 01:41:33.200
See, what happens is when you start to, as you know,

2396
01:41:33.200 --> 01:41:36.000
you start to hit your numbers and exceed them bigger

2397
01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:37.120
than you ever thought possible.

2398
01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:39.760
You start to realize that so much of our life

2399
01:41:39.760 --> 01:41:42.160
is spent playing defense with money.

2400
01:41:42.160 --> 01:41:44.160
That's the relationship that most of us have with money.

2401
01:41:44.160 --> 01:41:45.600
Will we have enough at the grocery store?

2402
01:41:46.480 --> 01:41:47.920
Will we have enough to fix the window?

2403
01:41:48.480 --> 01:41:49.760
Will we have enough to get a car?

2404
01:41:50.400 --> 01:41:52.960
And most people live that way,

2405
01:41:52.960 --> 01:41:54.960
but if you start to save automatically,

2406
01:41:54.960 --> 01:41:55.760
and you start to invest,

2407
01:41:55.760 --> 01:41:57.680
and you really make it a focus to earn

2408
01:41:57.680 --> 01:41:59.280
and understand how money works.

2409
01:41:59.280 --> 01:42:00.240
At a certain point, you go,

2410
01:42:00.240 --> 01:42:02.080
oh my gosh, objectively speaking,

2411
01:42:02.080 --> 01:42:03.280
looking at our numbers,

2412
01:42:03.280 --> 01:42:05.040
we don't ever have to worry

2413
01:42:05.040 --> 01:42:07.280
about the price of a chicken bowl again.

2414
01:42:07.920 --> 01:42:08.880
So then what?

2415
01:42:08.880 --> 01:42:10.640
Then what is the point of it all?

2416
01:42:10.640 --> 01:42:12.160
Give it away, I guess.

2417
01:42:12.160 --> 01:42:14.320
This is where I think this is the real challenge.

2418
01:42:14.320 --> 01:42:15.600
And you know, a lot of retirees,

2419
01:42:15.600 --> 01:42:18.080
they get to the point where they have accumulated money.

2420
01:42:18.080 --> 01:42:21.760
But they never really thought about the point of it all.

2421
01:42:21.760 --> 01:42:22.880
What is the point of it all?

2422
01:42:22.880 --> 01:42:25.360
I'll tell you, sometimes people surprise me

2423
01:42:26.320 --> 01:42:28.160
by how uncreative they are with money.

2424
01:42:28.160 --> 01:42:29.200
I'll give you an example.

2425
01:42:29.200 --> 01:42:30.800
I ask people, what is your money dial?

2426
01:42:30.800 --> 01:42:32.800
What do you love to spend money on?

2427
01:42:33.360 --> 01:42:36.560
And people, they usually have a pretty good answer.

2428
01:42:36.560 --> 01:42:39.040
The most common answer is food.

2429
01:42:39.760 --> 01:42:42.160
The next common answer is travel,

2430
01:42:42.160 --> 01:42:43.120
then health and wellness,

2431
01:42:43.120 --> 01:42:44.960
and there's a bunch of other money dials.

2432
01:42:44.960 --> 01:42:46.560
So one guy once told me,

2433
01:42:47.120 --> 01:42:48.240
I like coffee.

2434
01:42:49.280 --> 01:42:50.960
That's his money dial, coffee.

2435
01:42:50.960 --> 01:42:51.600
I go, what do you mean?

2436
01:42:51.600 --> 01:42:54.800
He goes, I order different beans from whatever.

2437
01:42:54.800 --> 01:42:57.200
I go, can I be honest with you?

2438
01:42:57.200 --> 01:42:58.000
I'm bored.

2439
01:42:58.080 --> 01:43:00.720
I'm bored by your answer, because he was doing very well.

2440
01:43:00.720 --> 01:43:03.280
I'm like, okay, you buy a $20 bag of coffee beans.

2441
01:43:03.280 --> 01:43:04.800
All right, you have way more money.

2442
01:43:05.440 --> 01:43:07.920
And he's just like, he was a little insulted that I said it,

2443
01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:10.080
but I was trying to shake him because I was bored.

2444
01:43:10.080 --> 01:43:12.320
Some person with that much money should not be telling me

2445
01:43:12.320 --> 01:43:15.120
that the thing they love to spend money on only is coffee.

2446
01:43:15.120 --> 01:43:17.920
So I go, listen, you like making your own coffee?

2447
01:43:17.920 --> 01:43:20.880
He goes, yeah, I have my aero press and this and that.

2448
01:43:21.760 --> 01:43:25.440
I go, what if you considered hiring the barista

2449
01:43:25.520 --> 01:43:28.080
from your local place to come to your house

2450
01:43:28.080 --> 01:43:30.880
and show you how to fine tune that coffee?

2451
01:43:30.880 --> 01:43:34.480
What if you really learn how to spend money on that experience

2452
01:43:34.480 --> 01:43:36.240
and deepen the experience?

2453
01:43:36.240 --> 01:43:38.400
It's not about buying 10 more coffee bags.

2454
01:43:38.400 --> 01:43:42.160
It's about going deeper a year later, two years later, we talked.

2455
01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:46.240
He had done that and he got really into coffee.

2456
01:43:46.240 --> 01:43:49.120
He was now traveling to go to different locations.

2457
01:43:49.120 --> 01:43:53.120
Columbia, it's Rwanda, all these places where he had started

2458
01:43:53.120 --> 01:43:54.480
to appreciate the coffee.

2459
01:43:55.440 --> 01:43:57.360
Sometimes we need to get more creative.

2460
01:43:57.360 --> 01:43:59.840
You don't have to spend thousands of dollars,

2461
01:43:59.840 --> 01:44:02.800
but if you and your partner love this thing,

2462
01:44:03.600 --> 01:44:06.720
think about how you can spend money to appreciate it even more.

2463
01:44:06.720 --> 01:44:10.320
And your strategy is to then stop spending money on the things

2464
01:44:10.320 --> 01:44:12.320
that you don't appreciate.

2465
01:44:12.320 --> 01:44:13.920
So this is why your Rich Life Vision comes in.

2466
01:44:13.920 --> 01:44:14.640
What do we care about?

2467
01:44:14.640 --> 01:44:16.400
What do we want to spend extravagantly on?

2468
01:44:16.960 --> 01:44:19.760
And then what do we want to cut cost mercilessly on?

2469
01:44:19.760 --> 01:44:22.400
We always start with what do we want to spend more on?

2470
01:44:22.400 --> 01:44:24.960
So when I ask people, I have a variety of exercises.

2471
01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:26.880
I walk them through like, what's your perfect week?

2472
01:44:26.880 --> 01:44:29.840
I'll tell you that I've done this with many, many people.

2473
01:44:29.840 --> 01:44:32.960
Not one person has ever said my perfect week involves doing laundry.

2474
01:44:34.160 --> 01:44:34.400
Cool.

2475
01:44:35.040 --> 01:44:36.880
Could we pay that out?

2476
01:44:36.880 --> 01:44:38.480
And if you can't afford to do that today,

2477
01:44:38.480 --> 01:44:38.960
that's okay.

2478
01:44:38.960 --> 01:44:42.080
Put it on your vision and say, when we get to this number,

2479
01:44:42.720 --> 01:44:44.080
we're never going to do laundry again.

2480
01:44:44.800 --> 01:44:45.600
Fantastic.

2481
01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:47.520
But it also gives you something to look forward to.

2482
01:44:48.080 --> 01:44:49.760
You know, it's the road around that

2483
01:44:49.840 --> 01:44:52.640
once household income equals X number,

2484
01:44:52.640 --> 01:44:55.520
then people are happy or at least that diminishing return.

2485
01:44:55.520 --> 01:44:56.480
This bullshit, isn't it?

2486
01:44:56.480 --> 01:44:58.240
Yeah, that's $75,000 a number.

2487
01:44:58.240 --> 01:45:00.720
First of all, that was already like 10 years ago.

2488
01:45:00.720 --> 01:45:02.160
So we have to factor in inflation.

2489
01:45:02.160 --> 01:45:07.120
But second, more recent research has shown that actually happiness

2490
01:45:07.120 --> 01:45:08.640
continues increasing.

2491
01:45:08.640 --> 01:45:10.320
There's also self-satisfaction.

2492
01:45:10.320 --> 01:45:12.160
So there's a variety of different variables.

2493
01:45:12.160 --> 01:45:15.840
Basically, don't believe that's $75,000 a number that's tossed around.

2494
01:45:15.840 --> 01:45:17.360
It doesn't make any sense.

2495
01:45:17.360 --> 01:45:20.720
What's more important is you create a vision together

2496
01:45:20.720 --> 01:45:23.760
and you go, what would make this week,

2497
01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:27.280
this year, this next 10 years amazing for us?

2498
01:45:27.280 --> 01:45:28.480
Let's just put it all out there.

2499
01:45:28.480 --> 01:45:30.320
It doesn't even matter if we know how we can afford it or not.

2500
01:45:30.960 --> 01:45:32.000
Then let's talk about it.

2501
01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:33.040
Do we know our numbers?

2502
01:45:34.000 --> 01:45:34.720
Do we have enough?

2503
01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:37.440
Can we pay for our kids' college or not?

2504
01:45:38.320 --> 01:45:42.560
Can we buy an extra iPhone charger so we don't have to run to the bedroom every day?

2505
01:45:42.560 --> 01:45:46.480
And you start to create and design your rich life together.

2506
01:45:46.480 --> 01:45:47.440
That's the way you do it.

2507
01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:50.960
Very interesting topic.

2508
01:45:50.960 --> 01:45:53.520
And it's particularly pertinent to me because, you know,

2509
01:45:53.520 --> 01:45:57.280
as I said, I speak to a divorce lawyer the other week and he told me that it's the

2510
01:45:57.280 --> 01:46:00.960
one of the top two reasons couples get divorced is because of money problems.

2511
01:46:00.960 --> 01:46:01.920
And I really didn't know what he meant.

2512
01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:05.120
I thought, maybe it's one of the partners loses all of their money

2513
01:46:05.120 --> 01:46:06.080
and it causes arguments.

2514
01:46:06.080 --> 01:46:10.960
Or maybe it's just that there's a lot of resentment and frustration built up

2515
01:46:10.960 --> 01:46:15.200
because there's opaqueness surrounding the subject of money.

2516
01:46:15.280 --> 01:46:18.800
And it's kind of like the elephant in the room that has never been addressed.

2517
01:46:18.800 --> 01:46:21.680
And this is exactly what you try and do in this book and you do it so masterful.

2518
01:46:21.680 --> 01:46:26.000
Your first book is sold, you know, seven figures worth of copies and I understand why.

2519
01:46:26.560 --> 01:46:29.840
And I have a sneaking suspicion that this book is going to be equally successful

2520
01:46:29.840 --> 01:46:31.920
because it is the elephant in the room in most relationships.

2521
01:46:31.920 --> 01:46:35.840
The fact that, you know, when I saw that you'd written a book about money for couples,

2522
01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:39.920
it immediately made me realize like, Chris, we've never talked about that in our relationship.

2523
01:46:39.920 --> 01:46:40.560
And why not?

2524
01:46:41.120 --> 01:46:49.440
And it's a whole complex, myriad of reasons and trauma and emotions and insecurities and shame.

2525
01:46:49.440 --> 01:46:53.200
But like all things in my relationship, the more talking I did about it,

2526
01:46:53.200 --> 01:46:55.920
the better it became and the less of an issue it became.

2527
01:46:55.920 --> 01:46:59.200
And you know, there's almost a correlation in relationships, isn't there, between

2528
01:47:00.240 --> 01:47:03.120
the amount you talk about an issue and how big the issue is.

2529
01:47:03.840 --> 01:47:07.120
And that relates to all things, whether it's sex or if it's the in-laws,

2530
01:47:07.120 --> 01:47:08.960
if it's friendships or whatever it might be.

2531
01:47:08.960 --> 01:47:13.360
So it's a really well-timed book and I've really not discovered one quite like it.

2532
01:47:13.360 --> 01:47:15.120
So I highly recommend everybody goes and checks it out.

2533
01:47:15.120 --> 01:47:16.000
It's out in December.

2534
01:47:16.960 --> 01:47:17.840
The link is below.

2535
01:47:17.840 --> 01:47:21.600
So if you're listening to this now, you should be able to pre-order this book right now.

2536
01:47:21.600 --> 01:47:24.880
And hopefully this can form the foundation of a conversation that you very much need to have

2537
01:47:24.880 --> 01:47:25.840
in your relationship.

2538
01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:27.280
One that might just save your relationship.

2539
01:47:28.480 --> 01:47:29.680
Such a pleasure.

2540
01:47:29.680 --> 01:47:33.120
We have a closing tradition on the podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next.

2541
01:47:34.080 --> 01:47:39.600
In the Darivisio and the question that's been left for you is,

2542
01:47:40.880 --> 01:47:44.800
what can you do to improve humanity and the life of people?

2543
01:47:48.880 --> 01:47:52.560
I think in my world, the best thing I can do is

2544
01:47:55.360 --> 01:48:01.360
set an example of someone who publicly speaks about the things that are important to them,

2545
01:48:02.240 --> 01:48:06.880
who wakes up every day and has a great time teaching, loves what I do, and

2546
01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:13.520
models having a loving relationship with the people around me.

2547
01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:18.400
Leaving, by example, in every sense of the word.

2548
01:48:20.480 --> 01:48:21.360
Thank you so much.

2549
01:48:21.360 --> 01:48:24.320
Such a pleasure to speak to you and you've opened my eyes to so many things and

2550
01:48:24.320 --> 01:48:29.040
every time I have these conversations, I hope that I walk away with some kind of actionable insight

2551
01:48:29.040 --> 01:48:31.680
into something that matters in my life and that's certainly the case in this conversation.

2552
01:48:31.680 --> 01:48:33.760
So thank you so much for coming back today.

2553
01:48:33.760 --> 01:48:34.160
Thank you.

2554
01:48:40.160 --> 01:48:44.400
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2555
01:48:44.400 --> 01:48:48.880
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2556
01:48:48.880 --> 01:48:50.560
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2557
01:48:50.560 --> 01:48:54.640
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2558
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2559
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2560
01:49:03.680 --> 01:49:07.840
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2561
01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:12.080
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2562
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2563
01:49:14.320 --> 01:49:18.320
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2564
01:49:18.320 --> 01:49:21.200
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2565
01:49:21.200 --> 01:49:25.520
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2566
01:49:25.520 --> 01:49:28.960
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2567
01:49:28.960 --> 01:49:33.360
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2568
01:49:33.360 --> 01:49:36.640
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