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Most nation very proud to bring you part two of the passion if you podcast that do with Omar Elatar in this podcast talk about three main things.

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One is the importance of picking the right niche for your opportunity that you're pursuing second the decision making framework that I use when I'm confronted with hard choices and business which happen every single day and that you can use for your business.

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And three, the value of volume repetition in skill development and how we have to break the narrative that society gives us out about instant and immediate gratification just because you do the work doesn't mean you deserve the result.

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I hope you guys enjoyed as much as I enjoyed making it for you.

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So Jeff Bezos says, if you have a 10% chance of 100 times payout, just take that bet every time. 100 times payout for one on 10 bet to make it more realistic.

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Example, what if you had a hundred dollars in the minimum bet was 25.

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So you only have two roles, but the risk you're going to return is there, but you only have two roles.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers, how to make more customers, how to keep them longer in the many failures and lessons we have learned along the way.

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I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

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What were the deliverables or how are you packaging it?

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And the reason I ask is because a lot of entrepreneurs out there, they may have this expertise or be building up to it and they have a hard time figuring out how to package it, right?

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You can't sell it as you don't package.

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So did you kind of audition different models? I'm sure over time you have, but initially that first round, how did you package it?

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Was it an eight week program? Was it a 12 weeks? 12 weeks in the beginning.

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And then after I sold a hundred, I made it a 16 week program and it's been 16 weeks since then 16 weeks is worth out of law.

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That was the program. I mean, I think the big difference between, you know, most of the things that exist and what we did and what made Jim much special was the average client made $30,000 in the first 30 days.

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I will repeat that slowly for everyone who's listening.

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My average client, so if I sell 100 people, the average person made $30,000 in their first 30 days.

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So when people are like, I want to replicate what Jim looked at, I'm like, well, then replicate the results that we created and then maybe we'll be able to replicate the success.

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But everyone thinks that like everyone thinks it's the funnel.

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It's a three step funnel, everything, like it's not that, you know, I mean, you can look at it online right now, like you're not going to copy the business because of the funnel, right?

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I'm going to deliver it's because of the product. And because I was so sick and I hated the guru space and all that stuff, I was committed to not being a Jim guru.

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I was so committed to it that I ended up becoming probably the biggest one.

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The biggest one ever. I know for everything.

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Oh, so I'll ask three questions on that real quick. I heard Dan Henry talk about the fact that he had a conversation with you one time.

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And you know, in the online space, people talk about row ads, right? Return on ad spend for ads.

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And people are impressed when they get like a three extra hours, five extra hours.

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And he was saying that you had like a 25 or 27 extra hours and you were obliterating it.

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And he was like, well, dude, what are you doing, right? Because all these, you know, internet marketers are so intricate about all these things.

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And you're like, well, my cheapest product is like 25k or like whatever, whatever the thing was.

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How important do you think that is because a lot of people could work their ass off at a model, just the model has a has a sort of limit to it.

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How important do you think the positioning of a model is and how much time should entrepreneurs really put into to that part of it?

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So that part of it is the thing that I invest in.

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I am not the best one. I will be very candid about that.

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I didn't do email follow up until three years in.

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We'd already done 50 million or 60 million in revenue prior to my last semi-first email.

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Everyone steps over dollars to pick up pedals.

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Most people are just not like everyone here is, everyone is listening has the same time, right?

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But we only have limited amounts of focus and limited amounts of juju that we can put towards things.

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And so it's just like what handful of few things will make the absolute biggest difference and price is obviously the biggest factor in that.

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But the subset of prices, the value that you can provide by like if you sell something that's expensive that's not worth it, you run out of space very quickly because people do talk and you do get a bad reputation.

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We're in a niche like this is the one thing that everyone I feel like that is lost on the on the community of the internet world, which is like every other person who's done close to the volume that we have is mass market business opportunity, right?

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Every one of them.

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We're the only ones in a niche and we are 50 times, you know what I mean bigger than anyone who's in one tiny little sliver of a niche.

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And it's because I actually ran gyms and I actually made money running gyms and the gyms that we have make money using our systems.

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And so the average gym that works with us adds 200 plus thousand a year to their top line revenue, they triple their profit, they cut their turn by 30%.

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They increase their prices by $38 a month, which equates to the tripling and profit that they get and they do that by providing more value to their customers.

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I mean sure we have better sales systems and better marketing systems, but we also have really good retention systems that they get people better results and a better experience at the facility, which is why they stay longer and they pay more.

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So it all starts with the bottom and then it works its way backwards.

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So yes, the lifetime return on ads, but then I have is 36 to 1. That's lifetime.

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Holy shit. And that leads to my second question too and that is how important do you think the niche is when it comes to the opportunity?

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Because a lot of people are working hard, but that niche has a limit to scale and I know you kind of mentioned it.

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People say that the biggest niches are the things like real estate, the traditional things that were here 50 years ago will be here in 50 years.

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And a lot of the kind of digital marketing spaces, you know, can get super saturated with a lot of people saying the same things and people misleading one another.

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In your opinion, how important do you think it is for people to really appropriate their goals to the niche they're in and not get lost in the delusion of chasing something that just may not be realistic within a niche of people around them aren't doing it.

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You know, you get what I'm saying. There's a lot of people stuck in that conundrum. I know I was there too.

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So what advice do you have for people when it comes to evaluating the niche they're in versus the financial opportunity through the vehicle?

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I was having a good conversation with my friend Kevin Hado about this and we both agree that it comes down to there's two types of businesses that I would say.

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And I'm expressly saying this to the marketing community because I think that's a subset of your audience.

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You have traffic businesses and you have service businesses. Traffic businesses are marketing arbitrage. You're simply buying eyeballs for less than it costs you to sell a thing, a widget, a course, or whatever.

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And you go after a big ocean and you try and just you just have an ocean and you just try and make two to one three to one.

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And that's the game and you never run out of customers, but you also usually don't make it out of profit.

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I mean, I know the numbers of the guys that you that everyone knows because they own and make.

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And you know, they're spent in 500,000 more than that. So they make many months, you know, I mean like my total advertising from this last month is probably 50,000.

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And we pulled one 80 a week is what I just added up for you before our call.

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So we do 880,000 a week and we have not a lot of advertising, but actually might be more than I think if I think for no, no, it's less than 100,000.

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You know, advertising we spend, which is wildly less than everyone else. And it's because we are a service business, which is the second category of business, which is our goal is to penetrate a market and take as much market share as we can and keep those clients.

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Right. And then ultimately make it much more difficult for any competitor to try and meet against.

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Right. So I can build somebody that has enduring value that has enterprise value. Traffic businesses do not have enterprise value.

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They are arbitrage plays for cash flow. All right. They're not, they do not have intrinsic value because the moment the traffic stops, so does the money.

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Right. In a service business or a business that has enterprise value, the business should be able to grow independent of your ads can turn off for a day, you know what I mean.

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And so that's that's kind of the other, you know, kind of component. So does the niche matter? Yes. The reality is most people just not that good.

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And so they think it's the niche, but it's really themselves. And so whether you're in fitness or like doesn't matter any of the niches we just talked about.

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There is a billion dollar, there's a billion dollar player in every niche.

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If you're in car factors, there's a billion dollar company that sells the car factors. There's a billion dollar company that sells fitness.

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Tons of building off in this, as a matter of fact, there are tons of billion dollar real estate things. So if you're like real estate is a bad niche, you're just not good at it.

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And everything seems bad when you are ignorant.

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Because you just don't know, you don't know how to apply. And so most people are trying to forego the four years where you rocky cut scene and put in all this volume and you learn mastery of a skill.

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Like Russell, which I think a lot of often audience is probably familiar with, he pitched for years and soft.

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You know, I mean, he was building funnels for a decade before a click of funnels.

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And so everyone sees the click funnels thing and sees the explosive growth, but they the reality is that people sharper in the short doing something repetitive that is not a new opportunity.

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And then that opportunity will come knocking and they will take that skill set and apply it when it is there when it is there go.

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And the only way that they're able to have that explosive growth is because they are ready.

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And most people are just not ready. They think it's the opportunity, but you have to have the prep and the prep comes from doing the work.

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Yeah, and you talk about that. I know you said you did almost like 4,000 sales calls because some of your businesses you mentioned, I know you guys do.

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And just under a million a week, 80 or so, those are usually in the fitness space.

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And it's because it's not an industry that you're, you know, you've got to learn the fitness space the other half of it.

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So right now I have four companies requiring two more.

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And so that's kind of where I'm at now is I'm looking for $5 million plus businesses that I can take to 20.

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You know, I mean, and just do that. But we have we have a business in the photography niche.

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We have a software business. We have the supplement business, which is, you know, adjacent to gym launch of prestige labs.

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So, you know, the prestige labs was kind of a, it's not vertical integration, but it's, it's a, it was just a huge revenue stream.

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In parallel to existing customers. Yeah, exactly.

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Makes sense. Now, when it comes to you, like dealing with some of the business challenges you have day to day, I'm sure, you know, new levels, new doubles.

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What's your, what's your mental reference or what's your game plan when you're stuck with decisions that you don't have frameworks or systems for, which I'm sure happens all the freaking time, right, as you scale.

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What's your kind of MO? Do you just kind of come up with strategies? You try them and then you see if it works, adjust accordingly.

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Do you kind of zoom out? Do you have coaches that kind of help you? What's your, what's out your moses go to when he's stuck in business trying to get to the next level?

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It's a really good question. This is just my, my take and there's probably people much more than me. But the decisions that are made are that are huge decisions are fewer and fewer.

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You know, I mean, because the bigger the ship gets the rarer, you're pivoting the direction of the ship. Right. If you have a dinghy, you're switching directions every wave, right.

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You're on the Titanic. I'm not saying we're the Titanic, but you know, or whatever. Some huge boat, right? Titanic has some negative connotations.

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But if you're on some big carnival cruise ship, they're not pivoting very much. You know what I mean?

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So if you make a call, it's going to take time to move the boat and you better be right.

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And most times it needs to happen much more slowly than you think it does. Or most times not at all.

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So most people are contemplating their existence, having existential crises based on perceived pressures that they've invented for themselves. Right.

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Yeah.

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And so right now, you know, the level that I'm trying to get to is a hundred million dollars a year.

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And so that's the, you know, that's kind of the next, the next wrong. And I believe I know what I need to do to get there.

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And so now it's simply doing it. And it may take time. It will take time.

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But I think I'm aware of what needs to happen. And the way that I went about finding that information was talking to people who have done it multiple times and asking them, what do you see that I don't see?

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And that's the, and this is something that I, I have always done is I will massively overpay for people's time one on one.

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Overpay for Grant Cardone, like 30,000 for the hour.

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So every single major skill that I've ever required, every major decision that I've needed to make.

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I just say, what would it take for you to get on the phone with me? Just tell me the number and I'll see if I can figure it out.

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And just, I mean, in every time, I mean, not with the grant one, but like earlier on, a lot of those times where they were steep prices for me.

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But I paid them because I knew that my level of income was not going to be my life.

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So if, like, it was the same example, right? I paid 10 and I was happy to do it because I just knew that if I could get 20 years of experience in six months, why would I not do that?

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And, you know, when I, I paid, I think a Facebook marketing guy paid him $750 an hour for one-on-one coaching.

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And, and I was like, dude, just teach me Facebook ads. He was like, okay, so he taught me Facebook ads.

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And so that's how I learned Facebook ads. And then if you're cheaper, like if you get two hours with him for $1,500, that's way cheaper than hiring an agency for 25, 100 a month.

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That'll throw you the thing or more and you get awesome. And those give you the bottom line shit.

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Yeah. And I'll tell you that conversation he was in the internet space, he's like, I don't sell my time.

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And I was like, it's America, everyone sells their time. And I was like, just tell me with, I was like, you don't sell your time for a price that you're not saying, yes, Jessica, so what would you say?

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And so he said $750 an hour and I was like, done. Cool.

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You're like, cool.

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Yeah.

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But dude, I didn't, I mean, that was stupid. That was super stupid for me. You know what I mean?

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So I was like, I was showing up on every call like, present.

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Yeah.

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Two cups of coffee ready to absorb whatever you had.

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Yeah.

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The thing is is I didn't ask him how to learn how to run Facebook ads. I asked him, how would you run Facebook ads for my business?

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I will run them.

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Then you tell me what decisions you'd be making. What do I turn off and why so I can understand the thought process.

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And so once I understood that, then I got it. You know, I mean, I think it took me eight calls.

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So it cost me six grand or whatever it was to learn Facebook ads. I didn't buy a course. I just paid the guy. Right.

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It was more than a course, but it also took me less time.

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If I had gone through a course, people make 60 hour courses, like, you know, 60 hours. You know what I mean?

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Because people don't know how to focus and make good courses. But like, this guy was able to solve my specific problem.

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I was like, I just need local lead gym for a gym. What do I need to do?

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Any show? That was it.

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Real quick guys, if you can think about how you found this podcast, somebody probably tweeted it, told you about it, shared it on Instagram or something like that.

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The only way this grows is through word of mouth. And so I don't run ads. I don't do sponsorships. I don't sell anything.

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My only ask is that you continue to pay it forward to whoever showed you or however you found out about this podcast that you do the exact same thing.

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So if it was a review, if it was a post, if you do that, it would mean the world to me and you'll throw some good karma out there for another entrepreneur.

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The one thing I love about your stuff, even when I see your ads, you know, because you have some of the most creative ads I've seen online.

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Half a bit is like, you don't give a shit to play in the confines of everybody else.

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But you obviously give a shit for them to do well. And you do that.

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Like, I can tell there's a lot of like, I think you had an ad the other day was like, there's two things I love this and like, George.

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Yeah.

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You know, whatever, whatever it was, obviously, I'm sure you have a team helping you with that stuff.

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But what's your general mindset? Or are you at a stage now kind of where you have the capital to kind of experiment a little bit?

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You know, and so you're kind of a little bit more risky. What's your, what's your approach with that? Just to help entrepreneurs out there might be curious.

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Yeah. So this is the single greatest piece of advice I can give you if you want to learn how to work better.

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Take a percentage of your advertising spend or a percentage of your income if you're still working a job and say, this is what I'm willing to spend.

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And I'm willing to see zero return because I'm spending this on education because there is no advertising school.

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The advertising school is you spending money.

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And so if you figure, all right, I'm going to spend $500 a month for a year. It's a $6,000 school.

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But I'm actually going to learn and you have to spend it.

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Because if you don't spend it, right, then you're not learning.

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And if you do spend it, then you're going to learn how to do it because you're not going to try and waste your money.

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But you're going to give yourself lots of permission to do so.

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And that percentage can change over time.

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But roughly, you know, for me, if temper, I mean, I've gotten over this now, I spend money whenever you know what I mean.

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But as I was raising up the idea that I could spend 10% on stuff that I like mentally did not hold myself accountable to, allowed me to try new things.

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And honestly, most of the time the crazy ideas don't work, but every once in a while something really cool does work.

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And then it's like, whoa, that was awesome. And then you learn some skills.

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And then you just, you just repeat that over time.

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Do you think Alex that when it comes to, you know, like I know a lot of the skill and discipline you talk about the fact that a lot of people might see you as 31.

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They might be young. So they might be, you know, 28 or 30 or whatever.

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And so they're in your one or two and they're like, oh, shit, how's he doing it, right?

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Not knowing that there's that huge discrepancy of time and, you know, effort under the bar or time under the bar as you say, like in the gym.

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But like, can you just, you know, give it maybe a quick like one or two minutes of insight on that on the importance of really putting in the work.

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I know it's a message of Joel all the time, but maybe it's new to the audience here.

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But just how important it is to like not expect your first sales call to be the same results as somebody else's 1000 sales call, you know, that kind of thing.

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Everyone sabotages themselves simply based on expectations.

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I mean, that's it. Like what it comes down to is people people sabotage themselves because they think they should, they think that they should be more successful than they are independent of a reality, a realistic assessment of what they have done.

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And so they take two sales calls and say, I didn't close anyone. Either I suck at sales or this isn't for me.

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If someone else were to tell you they took two, like they spent two hours, quote, and they haven't even read a book on sales, they haven't done anything, right?

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Studying sales and said they weren't good. Why would you expect them to be, or if I used a different example, if someone spent two hours studying Spanish, can speak Spanish, would you be surprised by that?

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Would you feel like it was reasonable for them to expect that they would be proficient in Spanish? Of course not.

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And so for some reason, we apply these unreal state of expectations simply because we see somebody said the same age as us.

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And so I came up with an analogy that I really like, which is the story of the dice.

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So let's say you and a friend are both given a die, right? Many cited die.

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And so let's say one of you has a 20-sided die and the other one of you has a 200-sided die.

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On your die, only one side is green. The other sides are red, both of you. The catch is no one knows how many sides each person has.

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The rules of the game are simple. If you roll and you hit red, you can pick up and you can roll again.

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If you hit green, you make a sale. And every time you roll green, the die that you have shrinks the side, which means that your probability increases with the next roll.

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So you start playing the game and you realize that there have been people who have been playing this game since time began.

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And there have been people who have been playing this game for 30 years. People have been playing this game for 10 years.

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But you don't know how long anyone's been playing. All you see is the size of their die.

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But you don't know if they started at 5,000 or you don't know if they started at 3.

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The size of the die is related to your natural talent, your natural proclivities, the things that you're born with.

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The experiences that you had, they got you that point. But what action do you take? You roll. There's nothing else to do. You roll.

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There's no other actual action. And the only thing that has to happen is whether or not you stop rolling. That's it.

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The success is simply predicated on your ability to hit red, pick up the die and roll again.

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But you looking at everyone else's size of die, you don't know how long they played and you also don't know their natural talent.

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So they could have been smaller because they've been playing a long time or could have been smaller because they had natural talent.

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But the thing is, is you and your friend went in as the story goes to conclude it.

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Your friend rolls a couple of times and he quits and he sees you hit green and then he gets more and more frustrated every time you hit green.

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Even though his roll is completely independent from yours and he doesn't know that he actually has a 20-sided die and you had the 200-sided die.

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Oh shit, dude.

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So roll the dice.

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Yeah, there's only one action. You roll the dice.

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So here's an interesting one. It's a risk-adjusted return. It's a concept I like a lot.

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So Jeff Bezos says, if you have a 10% chance of 100 times payout, just take that bet every time.

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You go to a casino, 100 times payout for one on 10 bet.

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Why wouldn't you? You bet 10 times and you're going to hit 100 at one point and be worth it.

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What if, to make it a more realistic example, what if you had $100 and the minimum bet was 25?

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Now do you take the bet? What if the minimum bet's 50?

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So you only have two rolls. But the risk-adjusted return is there, but you only have two rolls.

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What do you do? That is the reality for most people right now.

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They know that if they played long enough, they will eventually win.

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Or hopefully they believe that, right?

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But they only have a certain amount of plays in them.

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And so that's why it's my belief that you just take a percentage, not an absolute amount.

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Take a percentage of your income and say, this is what I'm willing to spend.

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This is what I'm willing to roll on learning the skills.

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Because right now there is no university for acquisition.

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This is what I'm hoping to build. You'll see it's one of my projects that I'm doing on the side.

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But there's no school for this.

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And so the school that everyone has to go through is the thing that no one's willing to do, which is you have to risk.

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And if you don't like risking, then entrepreneurship is probably not for you.

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You have to be comfortable with uncertainty.

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You would always sustain enough period of time to get to bet, to hit on those bets.

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And I think that that might be a good point to wrap, to bring everything around on.

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So the single greatest thing that I can hopefully convey to the audience that has been given me the greatest peace of mind, the joy that you referenced earlier, is looking at people who are billionaires, not millionaires.

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And listening to how they talk and how they think.

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And there's plenty of universal things they have in common.

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But one of the ones that I noticed that was most significant for me was the extension of the time for us.

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Which is, if I extend my goal, let's say it's make a million dollars a year.

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And let's say I gave myself a decade to hit that.

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I would probably come up with a very different plan than if I wanted to be a millionaire in 90 days.

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And of course, millionaire versus millionaire, a million dollars in revenue.

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It's different, but let's just leave that aside for a second.

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But the plan that I would set for a decade would probably be very reasonable.

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And the likelihood that I would achieve it would be very hot.

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And even more over, I would probably achieve it before the decade was over.

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Probably much sooner, simply because of the shift in my perspective.

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And because I wouldn't put this undue pressure on myself and not jump from opportunity to opportunity,

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because this isn't happening fast enough.

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And what ends up happening is when people are starting out, they're looking for arbitrage opportunities,

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they're looking for something that's quick money.

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But the things are so many ways to make reliable money.

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And if you can go in those things, then it goes from get rich quick to get rich for sure.

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And if it were up to me, I'd always rather play the lie.

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So that's been the biggest gift that I've had.

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And if you can extend your time rising, the question isn't whether someone gets rich, but if they stay rich.

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It's not whether they make money, but whether they keep money, they keep making money.

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So if someone says they skyrocket, they do a million dollar revenue or cool.

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Well, what are you doing next year?

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You're after that and you're after that, are you growing?

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Because I would much rather have something that I know grows 20% a year indefinitely.

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Then something that grows by three acts and then takes by 50% and it goes up by,

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you know what I mean?

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Like just their wildness that tends to accompany internet marketing compared to true business.

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The last question I have Alex, do you think that most people, and that was super profound,

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that's going to definitely be a highlight clip on the grandma's side of you?

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Do you think that the ultimate in the online space, at least,

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do you think that the ultimate thing to sell is something that helps people in a certain context make money?

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Because other products can help you get fit or help you do so.

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There's a sort of limit to scaling that.

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But would you say, at least in a general sense, that helping people make money is there's the most,

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as long as you have the experience, credibility, and results, that that is the most longevity

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and sustainable type of training, type of business in the internet marketing space or not necessarily.

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Not at all.

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I mean, I think even the question had some limiting statements in it.

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B to C always has more scale and be a bit.

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But helping people get fit, there's 300 million Americans and half of them are overweight.

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Or even if they're not overweight, half of them want to be better, more fit than they are.

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So, if I'm selling to gym owners, I got 40,000, if I'm trying to sell weight loss, I got 150 million.

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So your ticket may be lower, but your volume is so much higher.

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I mean, we say that, and it's like, well, there's only a certain limit.

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It's like, is there a limit on weight watchers? Is there a limit on Jenny Craig? Is there a limit on beach body?

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Is there a limit on P90X, which is subsidiary? Is there a limit on normal lives?

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Like, I keep going. You know what I mean? All of these are fitness related companies.

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So, no, I don't think, just on the premise of the question, no, I don't think that.

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I do think that it's easy to fool people and make money much easier.

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Because if we're being real, the vast majority of people don't have the experience that they're claiming they do,

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because they are expert, except they never have done it, or they did it one time.

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I mean, I saw a guy who did $10,000 a month in an agency and then started selling,

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how to sell, how to just $10,000 a month in an agency literally the next month,

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after only being in an agency for 90 days.

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And I was like 10 grand a month.

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Like, that's not like, what are we talking about?

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Like, what do you know what I mean? Like, what are we doing?

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You know what I mean? And so, make money is always going to have higher ticket.

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The reason more people will make money in the inexperienced internet marketer spaces

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because it takes less operational drag to create more revenue with a higher ticket.

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Because if you sell 100 clients at 10K, it's a million dollars.

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It's much more difficult to make a million dollars in fitness.

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That being said, if you are operationally sound, you have good products,

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and you have good marketing, then you can also sell 10,000 people on your fitness thing.

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But it just takes more operations going.

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And most people in a marketing space are not operators.

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And so, they're always trying to go towards the arbitrage traffic play,

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which is how can I buy eyeballs for less than the thing that I'm selling?

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Because they have no back end, they have no delivery, they have no operations,

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they don't have no infrastructure, they can't go culture, they can't recruit people, they can't manage,

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they can't build teams, they can't go process, they can't do any of those things.

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And so, they just do the thing that they have into somebody as a hammer,

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the only skill they have is marketing, then they just try and find the quickest easiest money.

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But I don't think that B2B is the most longevity the way that most people practice it,

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because they just sell a unique mechanism, they sell a quick arbitrage play.

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So, they figured out that messenger or whatever, they figured out that groups are the way it is.

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But the thing is, is groups will disappear.

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Just like Facebook newsfeed ads for locals has taken a big taking.

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And there's always going to be a thing, that's not a business,

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it's based on an arbitrage opportunity, which means it will disappear in here.

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Whereas, if you have a process, like a consulting process that can improve any business,

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then that stands the test of time.

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If you can answer the question, will this be here in 20 years?

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Well, the thing that I'm selling, sees candy or in Buffett,

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is going to be here in 20 years.

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Like, that stuff that can last, you know, fitness, for example, even.

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People need to eat less and move more.

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If you have a very good service delivery behind that, you can do very, very well,

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and you can continue to do so for a very long time,

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because that's not going to change human bodies out of change.

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And so, it's just more difficult,

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because it requires skills that most people in the audience that we are listening to right now do not have.

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And most of them do not invest in those skills, which is usually, candidly,

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what separates the guys that we're doing the most from the guys who are doing this?

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They put in the work and they roll the dice.

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Thanks so much for being on the Shutterday Alex,

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and working people find you if they want to learn more from you.

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I've got a YouTube channel that I just started,

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just search my name, Oxford Mosey.

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I've got a book you can get on Amazon, or you can get on Alex's book.com.

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It says, it's called Jim Loan Secrets, but it's 90% business book, 10% about Jim's.

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And I've got a podcast called The Game.

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If you want to just listen in, this is your podcast.