WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.560 Real life presents the Jack Hibb's podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim truth, 2 00:00:06.560 --> 00:00:09.320 equip the saints and impact our culture. 3 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:13.760 Hey everybody, you are definitely going to want to stay tuned for this next podcast. 4 00:00:13.760 --> 00:00:18.800 We are going to be hearing things that we've never heard before with answers to questions 5 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:27.000 we've never asked before, you're in for a treat, so buckle up, let's get into this. 6 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:33.400 You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibb's.com slash podcast. 7 00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:39.360 Today, if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in Christ, 8 00:00:39.360 --> 00:00:42.600 then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. 9 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:49.200 To us, that's like saying amen or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. 10 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:55.600 Now open your hearts to what God's Word has to say to you, here is Jack Hibb's. 11 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:57.440 Hey everybody, welcome to the Jack Hibb's podcast. 12 00:00:57.440 --> 00:01:00.720 We have a first time guest and a powerhouse. 13 00:01:00.720 --> 00:01:06.520 We have heard her speak at a conference and she just absolutely blew the walls off the 14 00:01:06.520 --> 00:01:07.520 place. 15 00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:10.520 She's a powerful testimony to the work of God. 16 00:01:10.520 --> 00:01:14.800 I actually have her bio and it's, look at this, it would take me forever to read it and 17 00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:19.160 then we wouldn't have any time to go through the show with her. 18 00:01:19.160 --> 00:01:25.560 Katie Faust is making a difference and she has founded an organization titled them. 19 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:30.200 No, I'm going to give you a few chances to get this right and after that, I'm walking 20 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:31.200 off the show. 21 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:36.120 Yes, them to us, them before us, them before us. 22 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:37.120 It's true. 23 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:38.120 Them before us. 24 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:39.120 I shouldn't have thrown it on the ground. 25 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:40.120 That's okay. 26 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:41.120 You get three strikes. 27 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:42.120 You've got two left. 28 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.120 Exactly right. 29 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:44.120 Okay. 30 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:47.040 You have had an incredible background. 31 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:49.520 People are going to hear in a moment how incredible. 32 00:01:49.520 --> 00:01:56.240 But before we get into the back, back ground, your achievements, we read your bio earlier 33 00:01:56.240 --> 00:02:01.880 today and we wondered where in the world have you ever found any free time to do anything? 34 00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:04.160 You have achieved so much. 35 00:02:04.160 --> 00:02:08.120 You've done so much and is this true that you lived in Taiwan? 36 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:09.120 Oh. 37 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:15.000 How long ago, but now there was no opportunity to speak Chinese. 38 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.000 Why? 39 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:17.000 Because I was too busy. 40 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:24.840 So this is how long you lived in Taiwan. 41 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:25.840 So how did that happen? 42 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:26.840 How did you learn? 43 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:27.840 Was that Mandarin? 44 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:28.840 That was Mandarin. 45 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:29.840 Mandarin. 46 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:30.840 No. 47 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:31.840 I got it. 48 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:32.840 I actually understood a little bit of that. 49 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:33.840 Nice job. 50 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:34.840 Do you want to do it? 51 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:35.840 No. 52 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:36.840 Okay. 53 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:37.840 No, you want to do it? 54 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:38.840 Yeah. 55 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:39.840 That's close. 56 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:40.840 Yeah. 57 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:41.840 No. 58 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:42.840 It's a different continent, but I got you. 59 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:43.840 Yes. 60 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:44.840 Good. 61 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:45.840 No, I love it. 62 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:46.840 I love it. 63 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:47.840 Talker. 64 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:51.600 And it has served me very, very well in so many different aspects in my life. 65 00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:54.140 But I've always loved languages. 66 00:02:54.140 --> 00:02:55.640 I did German in high school. 67 00:02:55.640 --> 00:02:57.340 The credits wouldn't carry over. 68 00:02:57.340 --> 00:03:00.080 So, then I had to do something in college. 69 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:04.600 And if you did Chinese, you only had to do three semesters versus all the other languages 70 00:03:04.600 --> 00:03:05.600 you had to do four. 71 00:03:05.600 --> 00:03:08.640 So I was like, well, let's see if they can teach me to read that chicken scratch. 72 00:03:08.640 --> 00:03:09.640 Wow! 73 00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:10.840 I don't think that they could. 74 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:12.320 And then I loved it. 75 00:03:12.320 --> 00:03:16.220 And then I became an Asian studies major and I took it all four years and I was like, 76 00:03:16.220 --> 00:03:18.220 Wow, we'll add some political science. 77 00:03:18.220 --> 00:03:20.500 And then I got a full bright scholarship. 78 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:22.220 And that's why we were in Taiwan. 79 00:03:22.220 --> 00:03:23.420 My husband and I got married. 80 00:03:23.420 --> 00:03:24.780 And we did our first year. 81 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:27.220 We took leave and cleave very seriously. 82 00:03:27.220 --> 00:03:29.660 We left and moved to Taiwan. 83 00:03:29.660 --> 00:03:31.660 And so that was wonderful. 84 00:03:31.660 --> 00:03:34.420 And then we moved to Colorado where he got his Masters 85 00:03:34.420 --> 00:03:36.180 of Divinity at Denver Seminary. 86 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:38.140 And I worked at a Chinese adoption agency. 87 00:03:38.140 --> 00:03:40.900 So I had like 10 years of Chinese. 88 00:03:40.900 --> 00:03:43.020 And then I got pregnant, had babies. 89 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:45.460 And I can barely remember to say anything now. 90 00:03:45.460 --> 00:03:47.860 Oh, you're not passing it on to them though? 91 00:03:47.860 --> 00:03:49.460 So our youngest actually is Chinese. 92 00:03:49.460 --> 00:03:50.460 And we adopted him. 93 00:03:50.460 --> 00:03:52.620 And so for the first year that he was with us, 94 00:03:52.620 --> 00:03:56.020 I spoke to him exclusively in Chinese. 95 00:03:56.020 --> 00:03:58.540 And then I was so tired I didn't talk to anybody 96 00:03:58.540 --> 00:04:00.060 for like five years. 97 00:04:00.060 --> 00:04:00.900 That's an exaggeration. 98 00:04:00.900 --> 00:04:02.940 Is that because you have to use so many words to say 99 00:04:02.940 --> 00:04:03.100 a few things? 100 00:04:03.100 --> 00:04:05.700 It was because adoption is very demanding. 101 00:04:05.700 --> 00:04:07.460 And I had other little kids. 102 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:10.620 And I was maxed. 103 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:12.020 I was absolutely maxed out. 104 00:04:12.020 --> 00:04:16.740 And God had just called me into arguing online. 105 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:19.780 So we got home from adopting him. 106 00:04:19.780 --> 00:04:22.500 And about six months later, he kind of called me 107 00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:24.860 into this space of defending children 108 00:04:24.860 --> 00:04:26.420 on the topic of marriage. 109 00:04:26.420 --> 00:04:29.540 And that began as just an anonymous blog. 110 00:04:29.540 --> 00:04:31.340 Because I'm a chicken, and I know 111 00:04:31.340 --> 00:04:33.100 what these people will do to you. 112 00:04:33.100 --> 00:04:37.540 When you say anonymous, like operating it under like a pseudonym, 113 00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:38.500 or OK. 114 00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:39.020 Yeah. 115 00:04:39.020 --> 00:04:41.420 Like the blog was. 116 00:04:41.420 --> 00:04:43.260 So I was so angry. 117 00:04:43.260 --> 00:04:45.700 So I'm generally a total grace giver. 118 00:04:45.700 --> 00:04:47.300 I don't like confrontation. 119 00:04:47.300 --> 00:04:50.460 But what I saw taking place in the marriage debate 120 00:04:50.460 --> 00:04:51.980 was two things. 121 00:04:51.980 --> 00:04:55.020 Number one, normalizing mother and father 122 00:04:55.020 --> 00:04:58.340 loss by promoting same sex parenting. 123 00:04:58.340 --> 00:05:01.820 In the name of gay marriage is going to be good for kids. 124 00:05:01.820 --> 00:05:02.300 Right. 125 00:05:02.300 --> 00:05:03.460 That's what we heard. 126 00:05:03.460 --> 00:05:03.980 Yeah. 127 00:05:03.980 --> 00:05:05.740 And that made me very angry. 128 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:08.300 Because I've been working with kids for a long time. 129 00:05:08.300 --> 00:05:10.700 Like ever since college, we've been doing youth ministry. 130 00:05:10.700 --> 00:05:12.740 And then we were the junior high directors at our church 131 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:14.180 with, I love junior hires. 132 00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:16.300 And then we did high school ministry, college ministry. 133 00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:17.940 We've done pre-marriage counseling. 134 00:05:17.940 --> 00:05:21.140 We've done mid-marriage crisis counseling. 135 00:05:21.140 --> 00:05:22.660 I've worked out an adoption agency. 136 00:05:22.660 --> 00:05:24.540 I've got children who have friends 137 00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:25.500 from broken homes to come here. 138 00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:27.980 I'm like, I got a lot of close contact with kids. 139 00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:30.900 And I've never met a kid who lost their mother or father. 140 00:05:30.900 --> 00:05:33.140 And we're like, I love this. 141 00:05:33.140 --> 00:05:35.860 Usually, it leaves a lifelong wound 142 00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:38.820 that hampers them physically, academically, emotionally, 143 00:05:38.820 --> 00:05:39.940 and relationally. 144 00:05:39.940 --> 00:05:41.580 So to me, that was one thing where I said, 145 00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:44.660 you are not going to weaponize some of the greatest wounds 146 00:05:44.660 --> 00:05:46.980 of children to advance your political aims. 147 00:05:46.980 --> 00:05:48.780 But then the other thing they said 148 00:05:48.780 --> 00:05:51.860 is right after President Obama evolved on marriage. 149 00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:52.700 That's right. 150 00:05:52.700 --> 00:05:53.460 He sure did. 151 00:05:53.460 --> 00:05:53.980 He did. 152 00:05:53.980 --> 00:05:56.620 He won in 2008 as a traditional marriage supporter. 153 00:05:56.620 --> 00:05:59.580 He won in 2012 as a supporter of traditional marriage. 154 00:05:59.580 --> 00:06:01.980 And then he evolved right afterwards. 155 00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:04.340 And to me, I felt like there was a sea change 156 00:06:04.340 --> 00:06:06.460 in media right after that where they were like, 157 00:06:06.460 --> 00:06:08.980 OK, now that we've got the president, 158 00:06:08.980 --> 00:06:11.900 we can call anybody that supports traditional marriage, 159 00:06:11.900 --> 00:06:13.300 a hater homophobic it. 160 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:14.380 That's exactly what happened. 161 00:06:14.380 --> 00:06:17.380 And I took issue with that, Jack. 162 00:06:17.380 --> 00:06:18.820 No, I'm going to interrupt you. 163 00:06:18.820 --> 00:06:19.140 Yeah. 164 00:06:19.140 --> 00:06:22.060 For the audience, I'll be sarcastic. 165 00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:22.580 Please. 166 00:06:22.580 --> 00:06:24.300 Who do you think you are? 167 00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:29.340 What would you know about a different lifestyle? 168 00:06:29.340 --> 00:06:31.340 What gives you the qualifications? 169 00:06:31.340 --> 00:06:31.860 I know. 170 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:33.460 You've traveled around the world. 171 00:06:33.460 --> 00:06:34.660 You're learning languages. 172 00:06:34.660 --> 00:06:36.980 You're being successful and your husband and you 173 00:06:36.980 --> 00:06:38.100 and all the things that you're doing. 174 00:06:38.100 --> 00:06:42.740 How could you possibly know about any other type of structure 175 00:06:42.740 --> 00:06:45.500 of marriage outside of what God has established? 176 00:06:45.500 --> 00:06:46.620 Nothing, obviously. 177 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:47.340 Nothing. 178 00:06:47.340 --> 00:06:50.460 I'm just a sheltered pastor's wife, right? 179 00:06:50.460 --> 00:06:52.220 Who doesn't have any contact with the outside world? 180 00:06:52.220 --> 00:06:52.700 Yes. 181 00:06:52.700 --> 00:06:53.420 I know it's tough. 182 00:06:53.420 --> 00:06:54.060 No. 183 00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:56.100 My parents were married until I was 10. 184 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:57.940 I wasn't raised in a Christian home. 185 00:06:57.940 --> 00:06:59.060 They divorced. 186 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:01.340 Thank God I remained connected to both of them, 187 00:07:01.340 --> 00:07:02.340 which is pretty rare. 188 00:07:02.340 --> 00:07:04.580 A lot of times, in about 40% of cases, 189 00:07:04.580 --> 00:07:06.180 children will lose contact altogether 190 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:07.860 with their father within two years. 191 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:10.580 So it's very often a cause of father loss. 192 00:07:10.580 --> 00:07:13.060 So my father dated and remarried. 193 00:07:13.060 --> 00:07:16.540 So I split time in his home with his whatever girlfriend 194 00:07:16.540 --> 00:07:18.780 he was with at the time or a new wife. 195 00:07:18.780 --> 00:07:20.300 But immediately after the divorce, 196 00:07:20.300 --> 00:07:22.180 my mom repartnered with a woman. 197 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:24.380 So they've been together for 40 years. 198 00:07:24.380 --> 00:07:25.540 Like, I was very close. 199 00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:26.460 And it led me in relationships. 200 00:07:26.460 --> 00:07:26.780 And yes. 201 00:07:26.780 --> 00:07:27.380 40 years. 202 00:07:27.380 --> 00:07:28.100 Right. 203 00:07:28.100 --> 00:07:28.380 Yeah. 204 00:07:28.380 --> 00:07:30.180 They actually kind of blow the statistics 205 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:33.780 out of the water when it comes to longevity among female couples. 206 00:07:33.780 --> 00:07:36.700 But I was very close to my mom. 207 00:07:36.700 --> 00:07:38.620 I'm still very close to my mom. 208 00:07:38.620 --> 00:07:40.740 Like, I don't know your mom, Jack. 209 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:43.460 But my mother is a better mother than your mom. 210 00:07:43.460 --> 00:07:44.060 Sorry. 211 00:07:44.060 --> 00:07:44.740 She's incredible. 212 00:07:44.740 --> 00:07:45.540 Like, she is. 213 00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:45.820 I doubt it. 214 00:07:45.820 --> 00:07:46.700 My mom's in heaven. 215 00:07:46.700 --> 00:07:48.660 So they can't get any better than that. 216 00:07:48.660 --> 00:07:50.140 Well, that's pretty good. 217 00:07:50.140 --> 00:07:52.620 No, you can't believe your mom is the best. 218 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:53.980 I understand. 219 00:07:53.980 --> 00:07:59.220 No, my mom, a lot of the things I do well as a mother, 220 00:07:59.220 --> 00:08:01.500 I do because that's how my mother mothered me. 221 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:04.860 So I've got no qualms at all saying, 222 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:06.780 she is an incredible mom. 223 00:08:06.780 --> 00:08:09.820 And I'm not, I don't consider her partner my mother. 224 00:08:09.820 --> 00:08:12.100 But I do consider her partner my friend. 225 00:08:12.100 --> 00:08:14.780 And there's never been a time over the last 40 years 226 00:08:14.780 --> 00:08:17.700 where we've had major conflict or anything. 227 00:08:17.700 --> 00:08:20.700 They've always been welcome in my life, in my children's life. 228 00:08:20.700 --> 00:08:23.660 I didn't become a Christian until my senior year 229 00:08:23.660 --> 00:08:25.060 when I was about 17. 230 00:08:25.060 --> 00:08:26.780 So that was the world that I knew. 231 00:08:26.780 --> 00:08:30.340 And then after that, I felt very fierce 232 00:08:30.340 --> 00:08:32.780 about making sure that I could remain connected to them 233 00:08:32.780 --> 00:08:33.700 in any way possible. 234 00:08:33.700 --> 00:08:36.660 So they've always been a part of my children's lives. 235 00:08:36.660 --> 00:08:38.460 They're upbringing. 236 00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:40.860 And I was telling, I tell people all the time, 237 00:08:40.860 --> 00:08:42.260 like these people come at me like, 238 00:08:42.260 --> 00:08:44.220 oh, you're a hateful homophobic bigot. 239 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:47.340 And I was like, it's like pull the string and it comes out. 240 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:50.380 Yeah, and I'm like, oh, honey, I have been living 241 00:08:50.380 --> 00:08:52.700 with Lesbian since before you were born. 242 00:08:52.700 --> 00:08:54.460 That just doesn't work on me. 243 00:08:54.460 --> 00:08:56.900 So this whole idea that like, you're a bigot 244 00:08:56.900 --> 00:09:00.340 if you disagree, I knew that that was a lie. 245 00:09:00.340 --> 00:09:03.180 But it was a very effective emotional tool 246 00:09:03.180 --> 00:09:05.180 to silence traditional marriage supporters. 247 00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:06.180 Shoulderings, yes. 248 00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:08.980 Because all of us love our gay family and friends. 249 00:09:08.980 --> 00:09:11.100 OK, maybe one or two are genuinely ridiculous. 250 00:09:11.100 --> 00:09:12.900 But I've talked all across the country 251 00:09:12.900 --> 00:09:14.860 with people who are zealous for the Lord, 252 00:09:14.860 --> 00:09:16.580 who believe in traditional marriage. 253 00:09:16.580 --> 00:09:18.660 And they're the ones that were nursing their gay brother 254 00:09:18.660 --> 00:09:19.820 through the AIDS epidemic. 255 00:09:19.820 --> 00:09:20.340 That's right. 256 00:09:20.340 --> 00:09:22.500 They're the ones that are trying to be connected 257 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:25.060 to their sister who has a sperm donor conceived child 258 00:09:25.060 --> 00:09:27.820 so that that kid can have a father in their fatherly 259 00:09:27.820 --> 00:09:28.820 family. 260 00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:30.060 Yeah, so anyway. 261 00:09:30.060 --> 00:09:33.140 My blog, I was really angry. 262 00:09:33.140 --> 00:09:34.660 It was born in an angry moment. 263 00:09:34.660 --> 00:09:37.140 The blog was called Ask the Bigot. 264 00:09:37.140 --> 00:09:40.340 And I was like, if you think that only bigotry, 265 00:09:40.340 --> 00:09:43.540 if only bigotry could motivate somebody 266 00:09:43.540 --> 00:09:45.860 to oppose gay marriage, then here I am. 267 00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:50.380 And my goal was to outline not just the biblical case 268 00:09:50.380 --> 00:09:52.740 for marriage, but the sociological case for marriage. 269 00:09:52.740 --> 00:09:53.540 So true. 270 00:09:53.540 --> 00:09:56.180 And it was the why behind what God says. 271 00:09:56.180 --> 00:09:59.380 And then also to interact with people in a way 272 00:09:59.380 --> 00:10:04.740 that was so unbigoted that they could only confess 273 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:07.940 that the reason that they were clinging to this idea, 274 00:10:07.940 --> 00:10:09.380 not because it was science-based, 275 00:10:09.380 --> 00:10:11.100 not because it was natural law-based, 276 00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:14.060 but because somehow it gave them some kind of social 277 00:10:14.060 --> 00:10:16.420 advantage in the spheres where they were moving. 278 00:10:16.420 --> 00:10:18.580 So that was how it began. 279 00:10:18.580 --> 00:10:23.260 And then after a couple years of having the anonymous blog, 280 00:10:23.260 --> 00:10:27.220 I was outed by a gay blogger who like searched the IP 281 00:10:27.220 --> 00:10:29.340 address of a picture that I had posted. 282 00:10:29.340 --> 00:10:31.420 And it traced back to my husband's church. 283 00:10:31.420 --> 00:10:33.860 So this is the quintessential person in the basement, 284 00:10:33.860 --> 00:10:38.500 in their underwear, all day long, searching to find who you are. 285 00:10:38.500 --> 00:10:42.940 No, he actually was a gay blogger with a massive platform 286 00:10:42.940 --> 00:10:46.380 who did search engine optimization for a living. 287 00:10:46.380 --> 00:10:50.140 So he knew how to find this information. 288 00:10:50.140 --> 00:10:54.620 And then when he found out, he doxed the members 289 00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:57.100 of my church to get me to stop. 290 00:10:57.100 --> 00:10:59.420 He like took the home, the names and addresses 291 00:10:59.420 --> 00:11:02.620 of the leaders of our church and put it on his blog. 292 00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:05.180 And then immediately just told all of my, 293 00:11:05.180 --> 00:11:08.100 his followers, like information terrorism. 294 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:10.420 If he had been in the United States, 295 00:11:10.420 --> 00:11:12.420 he probably could have been prosecuted. 296 00:11:12.420 --> 00:11:12.940 Wow. 297 00:11:12.940 --> 00:11:14.780 But he was outside the United States. 298 00:11:14.780 --> 00:11:17.140 But he really did say, stop blogging 299 00:11:17.140 --> 00:11:18.820 and I'll take down the names. 300 00:11:18.820 --> 00:11:21.460 And I just, I was overcome. 301 00:11:21.460 --> 00:11:25.620 I was horrified that these innocent people at my church 302 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:29.140 who had no idea that I had a 2am side hustle calling 303 00:11:29.140 --> 00:11:33.020 were being made to pay for what I knew that God wanted me to do. 304 00:11:33.020 --> 00:11:35.220 So it was, it was awful. 305 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:38.140 I went to, yeah, I went to the elders of my church. 306 00:11:38.140 --> 00:11:40.740 One of them knew what I was doing, but the other ones didn't 307 00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:43.300 because I was like, this is not church life. 308 00:11:43.300 --> 00:11:46.860 And I said, I am so sorry, because I mean, 309 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:49.260 our church was being flooded with negative yelp reviews 310 00:11:49.260 --> 00:11:50.540 of people that had never been there. 311 00:11:50.540 --> 00:11:53.980 I mean, they were like, he said, I will make sure 312 00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:57.300 that when everybody searches the name of your husband's church, 313 00:11:57.300 --> 00:11:59.260 they will only see what I've written about you first. 314 00:11:59.260 --> 00:12:01.460 They won't even make it to your website. 315 00:12:01.460 --> 00:12:03.980 And that was the case for a long time. 316 00:12:03.980 --> 00:12:08.940 So anyway, I went to the elders and I said, I am so sorry 317 00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:09.820 for what I've done. 318 00:12:09.820 --> 00:12:13.180 I'm so sorry for how I've brought this on you guys. 319 00:12:13.180 --> 00:12:16.860 If I am the Jonah that you need to throw overboard, 320 00:12:16.860 --> 00:12:18.820 so the storm will stop. 321 00:12:18.820 --> 00:12:19.860 I will stop everything. 322 00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:21.180 I'll take down the blog. 323 00:12:21.180 --> 00:12:23.180 I'll never write about this again. 324 00:12:23.180 --> 00:12:26.540 And they sat around and these are just ordinary guys. 325 00:12:26.540 --> 00:12:29.780 One was like a Microsoft deck and one was a bus driver 326 00:12:29.780 --> 00:12:33.420 and a couple of them just kind of had management jobs. 327 00:12:33.420 --> 00:12:36.860 These were not like theologians and shiny polished. 328 00:12:36.860 --> 00:12:40.020 They talked about it and they were like, yeah, yeah, 329 00:12:40.020 --> 00:12:42.260 you could stop. 330 00:12:42.260 --> 00:12:43.660 Or you could go really big. 331 00:12:43.660 --> 00:12:44.580 Oh, okay, good. 332 00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:45.100 No. 333 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:46.100 You scared me from this. 334 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:47.500 No, they were like, that's a possibility. 335 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:48.300 I like the big part. 336 00:12:48.300 --> 00:12:49.820 Yeah, they're like, or you could just keep going. 337 00:12:49.820 --> 00:12:51.260 And maybe this guy doesn't determine 338 00:12:51.260 --> 00:12:53.300 what you do and what you're called to. 339 00:12:53.300 --> 00:12:55.700 And I was like, oh, I like these guys. 340 00:12:55.700 --> 00:12:57.140 They're good men. 341 00:12:57.140 --> 00:12:58.300 They're really good men. 342 00:12:58.300 --> 00:12:59.300 So that's what happened. 343 00:12:59.300 --> 00:13:01.660 And then once I was writing into my own name, 344 00:13:01.660 --> 00:13:04.700 I could lead workshops at the United Nations 345 00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:06.860 and submit a Mekis briefs to the Supreme Court 346 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:10.980 and travel to Taiwan and South Korea and Albania 347 00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:13.860 and Australia and the US Capitol 348 00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:15.780 and advocate on behalf of children. 349 00:13:15.780 --> 00:13:18.540 Yeah, you see, if your life is feeling kind of empty 350 00:13:18.540 --> 00:13:20.060 and like you're not achieving anything, 351 00:13:20.900 --> 00:13:22.220 this is what I'm talking about. 352 00:13:22.220 --> 00:13:23.740 You're amazing. 353 00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:26.340 It's awesome what God is doing with you. 354 00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:28.420 Let me ask you this question from the outside. 355 00:13:28.420 --> 00:13:31.900 Somebody's watching on the other side of this lens. 356 00:13:31.900 --> 00:13:33.900 And I don't know, I'm making this up, obviously. 357 00:13:33.900 --> 00:13:35.540 She's 16 years old. 358 00:13:37.580 --> 00:13:42.580 She's in a homosexual parent relationship type thing here. 359 00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:45.540 What would you say to her? 360 00:13:45.540 --> 00:13:48.380 That you don't need to feel bad for wanting your mom 361 00:13:48.380 --> 00:13:49.220 or your dad. 362 00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:51.020 You've got two dads. 363 00:13:51.020 --> 00:13:53.260 Children naturally, and one of the things we do at them 364 00:13:53.260 --> 00:13:55.980 before us is we have a story bank of children 365 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:57.900 who have lost their mother and father 366 00:13:57.900 --> 00:14:00.620 because adult desires were prioritized above their rights. 367 00:14:00.620 --> 00:14:01.460 Oh, yes. 368 00:14:01.460 --> 00:14:06.220 So we've got a catalog of children with divorced parents, 369 00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:08.340 not because there was abuse or adultery, 370 00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:10.100 but because one adult decided, 371 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:12.420 they wanted to put themselves before the children. 372 00:14:12.420 --> 00:14:14.500 So we've got a story bank for those kids. 373 00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:15.780 We've got a story bank of children 374 00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:17.660 created through reproductive technologies 375 00:14:17.660 --> 00:14:20.180 who lost their mother or father because they were created 376 00:14:20.180 --> 00:14:24.660 and procured through a sperm catalog or an egg catalog or surrogacy. 377 00:14:24.660 --> 00:14:27.660 And we've got probably the largest catalog of stories 378 00:14:27.660 --> 00:14:30.820 of children with LGBT parents on our website. 379 00:14:30.820 --> 00:14:34.780 And you see some commonalities among all three. 380 00:14:34.780 --> 00:14:36.340 In all three of these areas, 381 00:14:36.340 --> 00:14:40.300 it is an almost reversal of the parent child relationship 382 00:14:40.300 --> 00:14:42.980 where the parents, so the way it's supposed to go 383 00:14:42.980 --> 00:14:44.820 is the parents are supposed to be understanding 384 00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:46.020 and supportive and accommodating 385 00:14:46.020 --> 00:14:47.940 because they are the more mature. 386 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:49.820 But in all of these three sectors, 387 00:14:49.820 --> 00:14:52.500 what you see is children have to be understanding 388 00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:54.700 supportive and accommodating of their parents. 389 00:14:54.700 --> 00:14:57.780 So you see the swap in roles. 390 00:14:57.780 --> 00:15:00.220 But for the LGBT kids specifically, 391 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:04.900 what they're struggling with very often is mother hunger 392 00:15:04.900 --> 00:15:06.420 or father hunger. 393 00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:09.860 So children do not just want to be loved in the abstract. 394 00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:10.700 That's right. 395 00:15:10.700 --> 00:15:12.220 They don't just need caregivers. 396 00:15:12.220 --> 00:15:13.060 That's right. 397 00:15:13.060 --> 00:15:17.180 They crave maternal love and paternal love. 398 00:15:17.180 --> 00:15:20.860 So for the kids who have two moms, for example, very often, 399 00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:24.260 they feel like they love both of their mothers. 400 00:15:24.260 --> 00:15:25.220 But they crave a dad. 401 00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:25.900 That's right. 402 00:15:25.900 --> 00:15:31.220 And they find themselves scooting over closer to men 403 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:34.220 or hanging out with their coach more often 404 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:36.220 or not wanting to leave their friends house 405 00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:39.140 even after the lights are out. 406 00:15:39.140 --> 00:15:41.140 And the parents are like, we're putting our kids to bed now. 407 00:15:41.140 --> 00:15:42.500 And they're like, can I just be with you guys 408 00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.300 a little longer because they want to cheer 409 00:15:44.300 --> 00:15:48.380 near the father, because they're made for paternal love. 410 00:15:48.380 --> 00:15:52.180 So I would say to the kid, the girl, let's say, 411 00:15:52.180 --> 00:15:55.980 with two moms, that you're not crazy for wanting a dad. 412 00:15:55.980 --> 00:15:59.100 And a lot of the messages that, especially some of these kids 413 00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:02.420 whose parents are a little more progressive will tell them 414 00:16:02.420 --> 00:16:03.820 is you don't need a dad. 415 00:16:03.820 --> 00:16:05.060 You have two moms. 416 00:16:05.060 --> 00:16:09.420 And the whole world is telling them not that, but inside they 417 00:16:09.420 --> 00:16:13.900 know you cannot legislate away a child's longing 418 00:16:13.900 --> 00:16:15.020 for their mother or father. 419 00:16:15.020 --> 00:16:16.780 It arises in nature. 420 00:16:16.780 --> 00:16:17.740 It's natural law. 421 00:16:17.740 --> 00:16:19.700 That's natural law. 422 00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:23.660 So for those kids, I say, you don't have to turn on your parents. 423 00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:25.180 You don't have to say they're bad, they're terrible, 424 00:16:25.180 --> 00:16:26.180 they're abusive. 425 00:16:26.180 --> 00:16:28.620 But you do get to recognize that you 426 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:30.740 were made for your father's love. 427 00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:33.300 And if you feel sad that he is not there, it's not you 428 00:16:33.300 --> 00:16:33.780 that's wrong. 429 00:16:33.780 --> 00:16:35.420 It's the world that's wrong. 430 00:16:35.420 --> 00:16:36.340 Yeah, right on. 431 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:38.420 So good. 432 00:16:38.420 --> 00:16:44.860 How is your message from the days of being attacked 433 00:16:44.860 --> 00:16:48.020 by this guy, doxed by this guy? 434 00:16:48.020 --> 00:16:49.100 Where are you now? 435 00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:51.620 What's the progress that your work is doing now? 436 00:16:51.620 --> 00:16:52.820 The minister is doing now. 437 00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:55.660 How are things? 438 00:16:55.660 --> 00:16:58.900 By God's grace, I think that we are probably 439 00:16:58.900 --> 00:17:02.780 the most influential nonprofit you've never heard of. 440 00:17:02.780 --> 00:17:06.500 I'm on the board of the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship, 441 00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:08.860 which is Jordan Peterson's new project. 442 00:17:08.860 --> 00:17:12.140 It is meant to be, in my colloquial terms, 443 00:17:12.140 --> 00:17:15.380 the righteous inverse of the world economic forum. 444 00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:20.220 We want and are getting the kind of global influence 445 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:23.900 to impact economic policy, environmental policy, 446 00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:26.300 energy policy, but also social fabric, 447 00:17:26.300 --> 00:17:28.940 understanding how we understand relationships, 448 00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:32.540 in education, in family, in our own citizenship. 449 00:17:32.540 --> 00:17:36.220 And I am so honored and humbled to be one 450 00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:39.060 of the people that has had a significant influence 451 00:17:39.060 --> 00:17:43.860 in how that conference and organization thinks about 452 00:17:43.860 --> 00:17:46.300 and addresses marriage and family. 453 00:17:46.300 --> 00:17:48.900 So this child-centric view is actually 454 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:51.580 infusing a lot of the different. 455 00:17:51.580 --> 00:17:56.780 This presupposes that they're open to another explanation 456 00:17:56.780 --> 00:17:57.980 for how things work then. 457 00:17:57.980 --> 00:17:59.180 They. 458 00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:00.660 Right? 459 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:02.580 They're willing to listen to you. 460 00:18:02.580 --> 00:18:04.740 They're not just willing to listen. 461 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:07.500 They understand that lifelong monogamous heterosexual child 462 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:10.660 centric marriage is ideal for society. 463 00:18:10.660 --> 00:18:13.580 Wow, after what a 30, 40-year experiment? 464 00:18:13.580 --> 00:18:17.100 Yes, well, and that's what arc has come to that conclusion 465 00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:19.460 that this must be a plank if we're 466 00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:23.540 going to move forward for a thriving society. 467 00:18:23.540 --> 00:18:27.380 My nonprofit is probably the most public-facing organization 468 00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:29.300 critiquing big fertility. 469 00:18:29.300 --> 00:18:32.980 So if you Google surrogacy from the child's perspective 470 00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:35.420 or children's rights and third-party reproduction 471 00:18:35.420 --> 00:18:40.620 or even IVF, we probably are the people that are turned 472 00:18:40.620 --> 00:18:44.100 to one of them that are informing people 473 00:18:44.100 --> 00:18:46.860 about how these technologies are victimizing children's 474 00:18:46.860 --> 00:18:50.060 right to life and right to their mother and father. 475 00:18:50.060 --> 00:18:54.540 We are also spearheading the first challenge 476 00:18:54.540 --> 00:18:57.020 to gay marriage in 10 years. 477 00:18:57.020 --> 00:18:58.820 We are going to overturn Obergefell. 478 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:04.580 We are assembling all of the major players in the nation. 479 00:19:04.580 --> 00:19:06.660 And they get to disclose, we're going 480 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:08.580 to have a website up by the end of the year. 481 00:19:08.580 --> 00:19:10.500 Everyone can disclose their participation, 482 00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:13.460 but basically every major national organization 483 00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:15.380 that is pro-family Christian and conservative 484 00:19:15.380 --> 00:19:16.500 is already on board. 485 00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:17.340 That's right. 486 00:19:17.340 --> 00:19:18.860 We've got three different areas of emphasis. 487 00:19:18.860 --> 00:19:21.220 The first one is creating a judicial strategy 488 00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:25.100 that actually has the ability to win, which we do. 489 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:27.580 The second one is we are changing public opinion. 490 00:19:27.580 --> 00:19:29.380 It's not enough to change laws. 491 00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:30.780 You have to change hearts. 492 00:19:30.780 --> 00:19:34.620 So we've got major influencers 493 00:19:34.620 --> 00:19:38.420 from every major conservative media platform 494 00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:41.420 that is working together to devise talking points 495 00:19:41.420 --> 00:19:44.060 to change public opinion on this topic. 496 00:19:44.060 --> 00:19:46.340 And then we are going to turn the church 497 00:19:46.340 --> 00:19:48.060 into a child centric fighting force. 498 00:19:48.060 --> 00:19:48.580 Amen. 499 00:19:48.580 --> 00:19:51.300 I've got Protestant leaders and Catholic leaders 500 00:19:51.300 --> 00:19:54.060 who will be developing materials and curriculum 501 00:19:54.060 --> 00:19:55.980 to not just communicate to Christians, 502 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:57.380 what the Bible says about marriage 503 00:19:57.380 --> 00:20:00.980 or what the church teaches, but why it is their job 504 00:20:00.980 --> 00:20:04.180 to advance marriage for the sake of child protection. 505 00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:08.060 So it is nuts, the kind of opportunities 506 00:20:08.060 --> 00:20:08.940 that God is giving us. 507 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:11.380 It's so crazy because what you're saying is so refreshing, 508 00:20:11.380 --> 00:20:14.900 I feel as there's waves going over my heart, refreshment. 509 00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:17.780 And yet all you're talking about is getting away 510 00:20:17.780 --> 00:20:19.980 from stupid and crazy and getting back 511 00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:21.980 to what God designed in the first place. 512 00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:23.300 Because it works. 513 00:20:23.300 --> 00:20:24.460 It works. 514 00:20:24.460 --> 00:20:26.180 Yeah, it doesn't just work. 515 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:30.140 There is no child protection, child thriving without it. 516 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:32.740 You cannot forsake this institution 517 00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:34.900 that creates a nurtured new life. 518 00:20:34.900 --> 00:20:36.940 If you forsake that institution, 519 00:20:36.940 --> 00:20:38.420 you get child victimization. 520 00:20:38.420 --> 00:20:41.780 And child victimization is not an option for the church. 521 00:20:41.780 --> 00:20:42.940 So good. 522 00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:44.140 How do people connect with you? 523 00:20:44.140 --> 00:20:46.620 What's the site or what's the connection? 524 00:20:46.620 --> 00:20:48.700 Well, if you want all my opinions, 525 00:20:48.700 --> 00:20:51.220 I'm on X way too much. 526 00:20:51.220 --> 00:20:53.900 So that's ad vote underscore K-A-T-Y. 527 00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:54.740 Say it against low. 528 00:20:54.740 --> 00:20:58.500 A-D-V-O, like advocate, advocatey. 529 00:20:58.500 --> 00:20:59.140 Do you love it? 530 00:20:59.140 --> 00:20:59.900 Oh, that's good. 531 00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:00.500 Thanks. 532 00:21:00.500 --> 00:21:01.340 Clever. 533 00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:03.340 Yeah, I didn't think of it, obviously. 534 00:21:03.340 --> 00:21:04.540 I'm just, I don't think that way, 535 00:21:04.540 --> 00:21:06.420 but thankfully I have a friend that does. 536 00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:08.820 Ad vote underscore K-D is X. 537 00:21:08.820 --> 00:21:12.460 But I think that you, what we'd love 538 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:14.380 is for people to come subscribe to our sub-stack. 539 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:17.380 You can subscribe for free and just let us equip you. 540 00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:22.700 Because I have found that when people know the facts on the ground 541 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:25.420 about marriage and why they cannot flinch, 542 00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:26.580 they will become vocal about it. 543 00:21:26.580 --> 00:21:29.980 If they understand that big fertility victimizes 544 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:32.060 more embryonic children than plant parenthood 545 00:21:32.060 --> 00:21:34.500 by a magnitude of probably four, 546 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.020 then it changes the way you think about it. 547 00:21:36.020 --> 00:21:38.860 If you understand that surrogacy is not about helping 548 00:21:38.860 --> 00:21:40.540 that infertile couple have children, 549 00:21:40.540 --> 00:21:43.580 but it's about on-demand designer baby ship worldwide, 550 00:21:43.580 --> 00:21:45.260 you think about it differently. 551 00:21:45.260 --> 00:21:48.260 So like come to the them before our sub-stack 552 00:21:48.260 --> 00:21:50.660 and just subscribe, let us equip you. 553 00:21:50.700 --> 00:21:53.340 Because we are the ones that got us, 554 00:21:53.340 --> 00:21:57.980 the church is God's plan A to be defenders of children 555 00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:01.020 and we are gonna do everything we can to equip you to do that. 556 00:22:01.020 --> 00:22:02.340 This is awesome. 557 00:22:02.340 --> 00:22:03.180 This is awesome. 558 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:05.860 The address one more time people, you need to go, 559 00:22:05.860 --> 00:22:06.780 you need to check her out, 560 00:22:06.780 --> 00:22:09.380 you need to see what she's doing at. 561 00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:12.020 Then before s.com, that is the place 562 00:22:12.020 --> 00:22:14.220 to get all the information we've got fact sheets. 563 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:17.140 If you're like, well why is same sex parenting, 564 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:18.620 what does the study say about that? 565 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.100 Or tell me about IVF or I didn't think divorce was a big deal. 566 00:22:22.100 --> 00:22:23.740 Like we'll give you the fact sheets. 567 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:29.140 The sub-stack is the place where we really will fuel you. 568 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:31.420 I think that there's a place you can subscribe on our website, 569 00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:35.260 but we would just come and let us turn you into people 570 00:22:35.260 --> 00:22:37.780 that will stand and create a firewall around children. 571 00:22:37.780 --> 00:22:39.940 Wow, so beautifully, so needed everybody. 572 00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:42.780 I mean, we must agree that the American family, 573 00:22:42.780 --> 00:22:44.660 the global families in trouble, 574 00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:48.660 because we've cut ties with God's moral standards 575 00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:51.900 and the anchor of what the family institution really means. 576 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:55.300 It's designed by God to build not only a family, 577 00:22:55.300 --> 00:22:58.820 a loving family, but a culture of society and nation. 578 00:22:58.820 --> 00:23:00.940 And so maybe that's why so many countries 579 00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:03.020 include in our own are in so much trouble, 580 00:23:03.020 --> 00:23:07.340 because you look at the home and, well, it goes without saying. 581 00:23:07.340 --> 00:23:09.500 So God have mercy on us. 582 00:23:09.500 --> 00:23:10.740 What an honor to have you. 583 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:12.340 We've got to have you back whenever, 584 00:23:12.340 --> 00:23:15.340 and I know that you are in the Pacific Northwest. 585 00:23:15.340 --> 00:23:17.740 You're up there in crazy, crazy land. 586 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:20.580 North, we're down here in the Pacific Southwest, 587 00:23:20.580 --> 00:23:23.780 just as crazy, but maybe we could do this again some time 588 00:23:23.780 --> 00:23:25.980 because we love what you're doing. 589 00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:27.620 Well, I love being here, 590 00:23:27.620 --> 00:23:29.780 of a bazillion people have been like, 591 00:23:29.780 --> 00:23:31.100 have you met Jack Hibbs yet? 592 00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:33.420 And I'm like, no, I follow him, I like it, 593 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:34.300 but like we've never met. 594 00:23:34.300 --> 00:23:37.500 And so finally, I was like, now's my chance. 595 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:38.500 Oh, how fun. 596 00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:39.340 Now I get him. 597 00:23:39.340 --> 00:23:41.340 So thank you for the opportunity. 598 00:23:41.340 --> 00:23:44.140 I've been waiting a long time to just know you better 599 00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:46.020 and be able to see this incredible community 600 00:23:46.020 --> 00:23:46.820 that you've built. 601 00:23:46.820 --> 00:23:50.300 And the fire in your people, like God, please, 602 00:23:50.300 --> 00:23:51.580 bring that fire to every church. 603 00:23:51.580 --> 00:23:53.540 Yeah, and thanks for being here. 604 00:23:53.540 --> 00:23:54.380 Yeah, great. 605 00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:55.380 Thanks. 606 00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:56.380 Thanks. 607 00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:02.660 This Jack Hibbs podcast, as well as all the broadcasts 608 00:24:02.660 --> 00:24:05.620 outreach opportunities are listener supported. 609 00:24:05.620 --> 00:24:09.260 Will you consider partnering with us through a special gift? 610 00:24:09.260 --> 00:24:14.260 Go to jackhibbs.com to learn more and stay connected.