WEBVTT

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a listener production.

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I'm Bec Judd.

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And I'm Jess Roberts.

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And we're done with the smoke and mirrors.

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Fainish shares honest stories about what it takes to look amazing because we did not wake up like this.

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And you should know the stuff that we chat about on this podcast is based on our personal experiences.

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We're sharing it for your entertainment.

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It's definitely not medical advice.

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And we'll always be clear with you when something is a paid endorsement.

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Please always chat with your qualified healthcare team before making any decisions about your health.

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Hey guys, welcome to Fainish.

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I'm Jess.

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I'm Beg Judd.

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And Roberts.

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Jess Roberts.

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And Rebecca Judd.

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We're still hungover.

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I know.

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I know.

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I'm day three of a hangover.

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Yeah.

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Oh man.

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I'm still drinking, so.

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You haven't stopped.

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I'm on a bender.

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I'm on a bender.

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Guys, we went to the Mick Fanning Charity Golf Day.

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It was actually our third.

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It was our second on the Gold Coast, but we've done the Melbourne event as well.

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And how would we describe the Mick Fanning Charity Golf Day?

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Honestly, it's one of my favorite days.

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It's like up there with Coachella.

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Do you know what?

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It's Coachella for golf.

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Yes, and charity, which is great.

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Yes.

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It's so amazing.

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They're raising money for the Northern River flood affected areas.

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It's been going for five years.

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Mick is such a legend and does such an amazing job.

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And how it works is...

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There's a celebrity plays in it with a team of four and the team of four, they like, they buy a team.

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All that money goes to charity.

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And then on each hole, so there's 18 holes on a golf course, but they play two lots of 18 holes.

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So it's 36 holes.

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Each hole is sponsored by a brand or a business.

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So when you get to that hole, there's some kind of fun activation happening.

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So like one year, it was like Betty's Burgers.

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Another year, it's like Fat Boy Bikes and you tee off and there's a DJ and a smoke machine.

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It's like a tequila hole.

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Yeah, tequila with a Red Bull hole.

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Like every hole, you cruise around on your buggy and you don't know what's coming next.

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We had a hole where there was a tomahawk that Jess had to eat.

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She turned into a doof stick and raved to a Dom Dolla song.

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Like there's.

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There's food, there's drink, there's entertainment, there's competitions, there's so much fun.

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Everyone does get a little bit loose.

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Not a little bit loose, we're all loose.

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Someone did roll a buggy.

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Yes, someone did.

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A girl fell off the buggy.

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Not us.

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Not us.

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Not us.

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But it was so much fun.

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So yeah, Jess and I headed up to...

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the Gold Coast.

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We stayed at this amazing penthouse that the owners had given, donated all of the accommodation to the celebrities who were playing, who donated their time to play and also donated massively on the day.

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They're so generous.

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So Jess and I had this huge house for like – How big was it?

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It was like – to say that it's huge, it was six bedrooms with all walk-in wardrobes, all walk-in bathrooms, like on suites.

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The Kira Rise penthouse.

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It's so good.

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It's got its own Instagram page.

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Check it out.

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Literally.

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And it's like there was like –

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I think it was like eight bathrooms in total, six bedrooms.

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There was five living areas.

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You got lost.

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I got lost.

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I walked into the wrong room at one night.

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Like it was just, it was so much fun.

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A rooftop pool overlooking Kira Beach.

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It was so good.

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Do you know what I'm really upset about though?

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What?

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Well, I didn't realize until after there was a tattoo hole.

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We missed that tattoo.

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I swear Mick made us miss that because he knew we'd be so unhinged and probably get a tattoo on our foreheads.

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But I was devastated.

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I had no idea.

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I was ready.

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And there was a snake.

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There was a snake hole.

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Like I was going to do a Britney Spears slave moment.

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Yes, I saw Russell Coit doing that.

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Yes, but Russell Coit.

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Russell Coit.

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He's our favourite.

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I know.

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Every time we see him, he's like, hey, girls, I haven't seen you since I saw you in the Brighton Woolies.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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He's so good.

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We love.

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We love.

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And Shannon Noe.

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Nosey.

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Nosey wraps up the night by singing What About Me.

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It's his tradition.

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It is the best.

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I asked him at 9.30 in the morning if he could sing it to me and he said no.

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I was a bit devastated.

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He's like too early, J.S.

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I'm like, oh.

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Anyway.

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He did it by the night.

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So next year we'll get tattoos.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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I'm going to get J.R. loves RJ.

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Yeah, how cute.

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Are you going to do the same?

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I'll say RJ loves... JR. JR.

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I just had to work it out.

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Only worked out this weekend that we have the same initials.

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Oh, my God.

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We were meant to be.

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Meant to be best friends.

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EFFs.

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Forever.

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Yes.

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Forever.

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So anyway, guys, it really is the most fun charity golf day.

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Like we said, it is Coachella.

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Fun.

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For golf.

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And if you wanted to support the cause, jump on Mick Fanning Charity Golf Day dot com and have a look there.

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Best day ever.

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All for a good cause.

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I know.

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And I'm so excited for next year.

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Same.

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Lock it in.

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Lock it in.

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Before we get started, a quick reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and isn't medical advice.

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We're discussing peptides as a topic of interest, and this conversation isn't intended to promote or recommend any specific medicine, product, or treatment.

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If you have questions about your own health, please speak with a qualified healthcare professional.

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Oh, this is a big one today.

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I know.

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It is the one that everyone's been asking about.

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Yes.

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And even in, you know, the 12-ish months since we've been doing Veinish, if you'd asked us 12 months ago what are the topics, this one wasn't one of them.

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And now this is the topic that everyone in 12 short months is asking the most about.

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And it's peptides.

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Peptides.

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Yeah, it's not the GLP-1 peptides because remember, we did cover GLP-1s with Dr. Ryan DeCruz.

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They're in our show notes.

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If you want to have a listen to those, please do.

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That was an awesome topic.

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We are talking about these other peptides, glow peptides, muscle regeneration peptides, longevity peptides.

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Every time I bloody open my Instagram, there's some Jim bro or some hot bird like flaunting these peptides and shoving them in their butt with a needle.

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And there's front page news of the age talking about peptide injuries.

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It is unregulated.

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There's so much to learn about it.

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It's an evolving space.

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And we want Veinish to be the one-stop place.

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shop for info on peptides.

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When you think about peptides, say to your friends, oh, Beck and Jess covered this on Vanish.

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Done GLP once and today we're going to cover all the other topical ones.

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So we thought we better get the best expert in to talk all things peptides.

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So welcome Dr. Jason Chan.

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Thank you very much.

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So Jason has extensive background in sports medicine, surgical assistance and healthcare consulting.

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Tell us your qualifications and what you're doing now.

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Yeah, so I run a performance medical program called PK27.

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My background is in general practice and sports medicine.

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I've been the chief medical officer at the Melbourne Storm for 10 years.

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No longer doing that role.

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And for a long period of time, I also was a bariatric doctor for about 12 years, looking after weight loss.

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And yeah, I find myself sitting in this room talking to you two lovely ladies.

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Today, we are here to talk about peptides.

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Now, peptides are everywhere right now.

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Everyone's talking about it.

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Every time you open your phone.

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Yep.

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We are getting ad targeted.

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All your friends.

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Yeah.

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All in the workplace, in the school mums, the school dads.

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It's all a thing.

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Even the kids.

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Yes.

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Even the kids are talking about it.

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Yeah, the teenagers.

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Especially the ones that are in sport.

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And online.

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Yep.

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The other term of peptides is called pepies.

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Yes.

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Peppy.

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Oh, is that what they're calling them?

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The pepies.

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I'm on the pepies.

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You're on the pepies?

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Yeah, that sounds like a big hit.

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And it is actually, like for how much we're having a giggle about it, it's actually pretty serious medicine.

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It's pretty serious stuff.

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Yeah.

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And the reason we're doing this episode today is we wanted to get Jason on to give us the medical knowledge behind it to talk about the safety and the risks.

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because there are a lot of people out there actually doing quite a bit of damage to themselves.

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There was a big article, I think it was front page of The Age, talking about some of the peptide disasters.

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Yeah.

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And yeah, we thought because everyone's talking about it, we want to give everyone the best medically informed education about where we're at now and what's going on in this peptide world.

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So peptides are everywhere.

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But for people listening, yeah, who have absolutely no idea what they are, what actually is a peptide?

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah, so a peptide is a chain of amino acids, generally less than 30 amino acids, if you will, which are, for a large part, are signaling sort of circumstances.

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So you currently have circulating somewhere towards 200,000 peptides in you right now.

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which are always signaling your cells.

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Largely, these natural peptides have very, very, very short half-lives.

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So they have a half-life of 30 minutes, which for people who don't understand what the reference range for that means, it means that within your bloodstream, they're gone inside two, two and a half hours.

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Really?

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Eliminated from your body probably inside two days.

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So you make them, you use them, they're gone.

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Undetectable.

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You make them, you break them.

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Undetectable.

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And are they made by all different parts of your body?

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Yeah.

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All different parts of your body.

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Make different parts.

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All systems.

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That's how they communicate.

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Okay.

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And they're only used when they're needed, I guess.

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Correct.

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And then once they've been used, it's been fixed, it just kind of breaks down.

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Correct.

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It's like a cascade.

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You know, this peptide will trigger this cell to produce that peptide, which will produce that.

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So it's very sort of interrelated in that sense.

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They're a little messenger.

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Correct.

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So if you have a chain of amino acids that might be more than 30 amino acids, we call that a protein.

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Oh.

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So difference between a protein and a peptide is very, very, very small.

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Just that large proteins, if you will, get broken down into smaller amino acids.

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And so when you're taking these things, it's the combination which otherwise culminate in a particular action.

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Science.

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Science.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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So when someone comes into your clinic asking about peptides, what are they usually hoping to understand or learn more about?

255
00:10:26.683 --> 00:10:27.383
How do they find you?

256
00:10:27.744 --> 00:10:34.568
Bec, the most common way that people would come with regard to peptides is, well, first thing, we don't advertise about peptides.

257
00:10:34.628 --> 00:10:37.350
That's an illegal circumstance.

258
00:10:37.890 --> 00:10:39.431
So most of it is word of mouth.

259
00:10:39.451 --> 00:10:42.473
You know, for the better part, because most people have come to me

260
00:10:43.093 --> 00:10:52.780
in the beginning for sports effectively, they're looking for it from a sporting perspective, be that I've got an injury that needs to be fixed, I have a chronic pain condition, I don't want my joint replacement yet.

261
00:10:53.180 --> 00:10:59.925
But increasingly that population is changing to the point of I want to feel better, I want a little bit more energy.

262
00:10:59.945 --> 00:11:01.246
I want to look better.

263
00:11:01.666 --> 00:11:02.707
I want to look better.

264
00:11:02.727 --> 00:11:04.428
That might be certain persons as well.

265
00:11:04.989 --> 00:11:09.872
Or more particularly, is there something I can do so I don't continue to break down when people get fixed each time?

266
00:11:10.332 --> 00:11:18.817
So increasingly it's seen as an opportunity or a way in which you may be able to manipulate body function to otherwise achieve what you're trying to achieve.

267
00:11:19.057 --> 00:11:19.257
Yeah.

268
00:11:19.497 --> 00:11:20.978
And who can prescribe peptides?

269
00:11:21.619 --> 00:11:24.360
So there's two large markets that we otherwise have.

270
00:11:24.380 --> 00:11:29.463
The first thing to say is that the peptides that we largely talk about are the peptides that they don't have a TGA approval.

271
00:11:30.263 --> 00:11:36.127
So these are what we call Schedule 4 medications, which are listed within the Schedule 4 poison section.

272
00:11:36.147 --> 00:11:36.407
Okay.

273
00:11:36.907 --> 00:11:45.111
So that largely means basically that, yep, we appreciate that they exist, but we're concerned that they have detrimental effects to the human person.

274
00:11:45.131 --> 00:11:58.476
So they can only be prescribed by a medical practitioner, a licensed medical practitioner that's through APRA, at which point in time, those practitioners who otherwise do provide that, those scripts can only be fulfilled from TGA-approved compounding pharmacies.

275
00:11:59.016 --> 00:12:00.717
And that offers that level of legitimacy.

276
00:12:01.077 --> 00:12:04.302
Okay, and how many TGA compounding pharmacies are there in Australia?

277
00:12:04.322 --> 00:12:05.544
Listen, it's changing.

278
00:12:05.704 --> 00:12:07.627
However, there's only around about five or six.

279
00:12:07.867 --> 00:12:08.107
Okay.

280
00:12:08.147 --> 00:12:08.908
In the whole of Australia?

281
00:12:08.928 --> 00:12:10.090
In the whole of Australia.

282
00:12:10.130 --> 00:12:11.091
There are none in Victoria.

283
00:12:11.111 --> 00:12:11.332
Okay.

284
00:12:11.630 --> 00:12:16.153
There's only five at this point that are legally allowed to compound.

285
00:12:16.694 --> 00:12:24.499
How come we are seeing out in the community and in the press that there seems to be a lot more people on them and they aren't getting them from these places?

286
00:12:24.920 --> 00:12:32.125
Where are they getting them from and what are the risks of not getting them from an approved licensed compounding pharmacy?

287
00:12:32.406 --> 00:12:33.587
You've opened a can of worms there.

288
00:12:33.647 --> 00:12:34.427
Yeah.

289
00:12:34.687 --> 00:12:36.889
It seems that you can get the peptides from anywhere.

290
00:12:36.949 --> 00:12:37.289
Yeah, in Timu.

291
00:12:37.309 --> 00:12:38.490
You can order them.

292
00:12:38.510 --> 00:12:39.811
Timu is one place you can get them from.

293
00:12:39.831 --> 00:12:41.071
From Biky's Backyard.

294
00:12:41.091 --> 00:12:41.752
Biky's Backyard.

295
00:12:41.812 --> 00:12:45.294
And I guess you've even brought up another interesting topic when you talk about that.

296
00:12:45.654 --> 00:12:47.535
Peptides are largely in this country unregulated.

297
00:12:48.516 --> 00:12:57.381
What's interesting is the fact that, and there is a particular peptide which is quite common, which if you take it in the injectable form, which people would otherwise acquire, we call it a peptide.

298
00:12:57.862 --> 00:13:00.123
If you put it in a capsule, we'll call it a supplement.

299
00:13:01.944 --> 00:13:04.426
So it's a really confusing sort of space.

300
00:13:04.506 --> 00:13:08.608
And I think largely everyone's sort of going, don't want to know about it, don't want to know about it, don't want to know about it.

301
00:13:08.828 --> 00:13:10.509
Very soon something will have to change.

302
00:13:10.709 --> 00:13:10.969
Yes.

303
00:13:11.250 --> 00:13:12.370
It's happening too much.

304
00:13:12.770 --> 00:13:14.652
It's unregulated in terms of what happens.

305
00:13:14.832 --> 00:13:16.132
And there's side effects that are happening.

306
00:13:16.152 --> 00:13:17.253
And there are potential side effects.

307
00:13:17.293 --> 00:13:20.195
And I think those persons who are selling it online...

308
00:13:20.835 --> 00:13:25.437
claiming, it's funny, I get people who say, listen, I can get you this and I've got a mate who gets the good stuff.

309
00:13:25.918 --> 00:13:30.400
I've never met one person who says, I've got a mate who gets the bad stuff.

310
00:13:30.460 --> 00:13:38.004
We know through our studies in terms of what we do looking at these offline sort of peptides that there is major concerns in terms of contamination.

311
00:13:38.604 --> 00:13:45.986
in terms of purity, whether they've got endotoxins inside, all of these circumstances or other substances that you really aren't very aware of.

312
00:13:46.406 --> 00:13:56.148
There were a couple of cases in the States where one of the peptides was being laced with cocaine, clambutirol, because it meant then that you would use their peptides because you know what?

313
00:13:56.228 --> 00:13:57.268
You felt wonderful.

314
00:13:57.288 --> 00:13:58.168
You felt wonderful on it.

315
00:13:58.188 --> 00:13:59.008
Wow.

316
00:13:59.028 --> 00:14:02.389
So if we all believe that that may not be happening in this country, good luck.

317
00:14:02.839 --> 00:14:16.985
What are you hearing here in Australia about where, because to me it seems that there's such an influx and so many people taking them and they're not seeing a medical doctor, they're not getting the baseline testing, they're not getting their biomarkers in order.

318
00:14:18.146 --> 00:14:19.046
What is going on?

319
00:14:19.579 --> 00:14:22.841
Bec, I think the biggest part is that, and there's two questions there.

320
00:14:22.861 --> 00:14:24.383
There's one is why are people taking them?

321
00:14:24.863 --> 00:14:27.265
And then two, what do you do while you're taking them?

322
00:14:27.765 --> 00:14:36.552
And I think if I answer the second part first, that is if you're taking something which we all know largely is experimental, we may have scientific knowledge as to what it's doing.

323
00:14:37.172 --> 00:14:44.480
We may have animal studies that suggest what it does to animals and it's a far stretch always to extrapolate that to humans.

324
00:14:45.101 --> 00:14:53.531
We have a lot of anecdotal evidence and that is you'll find that on Instagram and every other social media outlet or friends and family that you otherwise know or people in the gym that you go to.

325
00:14:54.480 --> 00:15:01.450
But in terms of what it's doing to you, if we can't tell you what it could do to you, you're taking these largely on a whim.

326
00:15:01.631 --> 00:15:02.031
Yeah.

327
00:15:02.452 --> 00:15:04.875
Now, that in itself is quite scary.

328
00:15:05.396 --> 00:15:08.921
You know, if it can do all the things that we potentially hope it might do...

329
00:15:09.502 --> 00:15:13.004
Well, there may be elements that it may be doing that it doesn't want to do.

330
00:15:14.164 --> 00:15:18.567
So two parts of that is, one, if you do decide to take them, why?

331
00:15:19.127 --> 00:15:22.129
And the other part of that is, what's the consequence of what you're doing?

332
00:15:22.729 --> 00:15:29.913
Now, if you're buying them then online, as most people would probably do, or from a gym with a guy walking around with a fanny bag, effectively, pulling them out, essentially.

333
00:15:30.833 --> 00:15:33.075
They tell you not for medical consumption.

334
00:15:33.195 --> 00:15:33.615
Yeah.

335
00:15:33.895 --> 00:15:36.157
They tell you not for veterinary consumption.

336
00:15:36.517 --> 00:15:41.360
And on one side I saw not for household consumption, and I'm really not sure what that otherwise meant.

337
00:15:41.540 --> 00:15:42.361
Yeah, yeah.

338
00:15:42.461 --> 00:15:44.082
Or there's nothing on there at all.

339
00:15:44.542 --> 00:15:45.162
Or they produce.

340
00:15:45.202 --> 00:15:47.444
Or there's writing in different languages that you can understand.

341
00:15:47.464 --> 00:15:47.924
Different languages.

342
00:15:48.064 --> 00:15:49.745
And then they're giving dosings.

343
00:15:49.906 --> 00:15:53.428
If they're not saying it's in for any of those things, why would you put dosing on their website?

344
00:15:54.088 --> 00:15:54.608
Yeah.

345
00:15:54.628 --> 00:15:56.009
So we do know what they're actually doing.

346
00:15:56.049 --> 00:16:02.412
I mean, we're not naive in that sort of circumstance, but they then get you to tick that disclaimer, which is always that box which no one ever reads.

347
00:16:02.572 --> 00:16:03.413
So is it illegal?

348
00:16:03.965 --> 00:16:04.646
It's not illegal.

349
00:16:04.826 --> 00:16:05.687
It's like marijuana.

350
00:16:06.247 --> 00:16:07.629
It's not illegal to actually...

351
00:16:07.809 --> 00:16:09.471
If you do a plant or two, it's okay.

352
00:16:09.831 --> 00:16:10.011
Yeah?

353
00:16:10.251 --> 00:16:11.733
And if you use, then that's a problem.

354
00:16:12.634 --> 00:16:14.235
You know, or you traffic to somebody else.

355
00:16:14.255 --> 00:16:16.658
It's like, we'll give you a little bit of a safeguard, but not.

356
00:16:16.818 --> 00:16:19.120
So right now you sell it under the guise of research.

357
00:16:19.601 --> 00:16:25.106
And the guise of research is the fact that you say and you declare you're a medical person who can use it for research.

358
00:16:25.887 --> 00:16:27.669
So you're almost purging yourself by purchasing them.

359
00:16:29.017 --> 00:16:30.298
Now, no one's going to enforce it.

360
00:16:30.318 --> 00:16:31.480
It's a soft law, effectively.

361
00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:39.728
No different than if you, you know, like I said, if you lose the example of marijuana, if you want to use your own personal sort of little one, the police aren't going to come and bang on your door and knock it down.

362
00:16:39.748 --> 00:16:40.549
No, yeah.

363
00:16:40.569 --> 00:16:43.992
So it's one of those things that right now we just look away, don't want to know, don't want to know.

364
00:16:44.012 --> 00:16:46.575
But very soon, as I said, they will need to sort of do that circumstance.

365
00:16:46.595 --> 00:16:48.657
Yeah, because there's things that are going wrong.

366
00:16:49.077 --> 00:16:50.339
There are things that are going wrong.

367
00:16:50.619 --> 00:16:58.047
And listen, I'm not for a moment suggesting that what people are selling is not the right stuff, but it's not going through the right checks.

368
00:16:58.247 --> 00:16:58.648
Yeah.

369
00:16:58.908 --> 00:17:00.009
So what are those checks?

370
00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:06.917
So if you go through a TGA-approved sort of pharmacy, what they'll do is when the product otherwise then comes into their possession –

371
00:17:07.597 --> 00:17:09.519
And again, I don't know where they necessarily get it from.

372
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:13.401
But what I do know then is the fact that they will test that product as it comes in.

373
00:17:14.242 --> 00:17:20.226
They will then compound that substance, be that they will, you know, add their bacteriocytal water.

374
00:17:20.247 --> 00:17:25.410
They'll mix the two compounds together, whether they produce a stacked peptide series or whichever.

375
00:17:25.971 --> 00:17:27.432
But then they'll retest again.

376
00:17:28.112 --> 00:17:33.535
So not only do you test the product, and it's a bit like with sport, elite sport, how we have to check for performance-enhancing substances.

377
00:17:33.555 --> 00:17:35.496
It's not enough to test it before it comes in.

378
00:17:36.076 --> 00:17:37.237
You've got to test each batch.

379
00:17:37.697 --> 00:17:39.438
And they will test each batch.

380
00:17:39.478 --> 00:17:43.400
So they will tell you that the endotoxin level is a level which is safe.

381
00:17:43.921 --> 00:17:46.162
You have 99.9% sterility.

382
00:17:46.802 --> 00:17:55.507
It will also then tell you you have 99.9% purity, at which point it then becomes good enough to otherwise declare it as medical-grade.

383
00:17:57.112 --> 00:17:57.452
Okay.

384
00:17:57.492 --> 00:18:03.680
Beyond that, if someone says, but mine's 19, I've got it tested by someone, no one regulates that tester.

385
00:18:05.202 --> 00:18:05.963
It could be anyone.

386
00:18:06.244 --> 00:18:08.787
If it's 99%, that's fine, but what's the other 1%?

387
00:18:10.193 --> 00:18:10.713
What is it now?

388
00:18:10.733 --> 00:18:11.934
What's the 1.2%?

389
00:18:13.114 --> 00:18:14.134
That's the concerning part.

390
00:18:14.154 --> 00:18:14.934
That's the concerning part.

391
00:18:15.274 --> 00:18:18.775
Look, there are so many different peptides being discussed online right now.

392
00:18:18.815 --> 00:18:20.796
The algorithm targets me.

393
00:18:20.876 --> 00:18:29.298
I go on and I actually see people injecting themselves, talking about their different stacks, advertising to people what their dosage should be.

394
00:18:29.418 --> 00:18:34.440
It is crazy, especially in the hands of young people, to think,

395
00:18:34.840 --> 00:18:37.784
that this is like completely normal advice.

396
00:18:38.465 --> 00:18:42.290
Why do you think these particular peptides have captured so much attention?

397
00:18:42.310 --> 00:18:49.640
And what we're talking about today specifically is BPC-157, GHK-CU, which is copper peptide, and epitalon.

398
00:18:50.098 --> 00:18:56.484
I think it's part of the big picture of where people have and they can feel and they can see a declining performance.

399
00:18:57.104 --> 00:18:57.344
Yeah.

400
00:18:57.765 --> 00:19:03.209
So that is that they're sort of at that point where they go to their doctor because they're not feeling quite right.

401
00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:05.251
They get their standard blood test.

402
00:19:05.371 --> 00:19:07.173
They get their standard blood pressure taken.

403
00:19:07.773 --> 00:19:08.874
I can't see anything wrong.

404
00:19:09.395 --> 00:19:12.818
Go away, just eat better and drink some water and exercise.

405
00:19:12.838 --> 00:19:13.218
Yeah.

406
00:19:13.518 --> 00:19:15.819
I think people aren't getting the answers that they're searching for.

407
00:19:16.399 --> 00:19:21.000
I think it's almost like medicine expects the fact that everyone's perfect until you fall off a cliff.

408
00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:26.261
And so as we begin to decline, all we want to do is we want to be ourselves for longer.

409
00:19:26.961 --> 00:19:27.962
It's all we want to be.

410
00:19:28.002 --> 00:19:29.842
We want to be our best person for longer.

411
00:19:30.542 --> 00:19:37.864
And then when they see this opportunity and they hear this dream that they're otherwise being told, I want to try it too.

412
00:19:38.584 --> 00:19:40.705
And I think that's largely probably what drives it.

413
00:19:40.905 --> 00:19:43.609
I don't know anything about peptides at all.

414
00:19:43.709 --> 00:19:45.351
I'm actually not targeted.

415
00:19:46.052 --> 00:19:48.475
You will be after your phone's listening to you now.

416
00:19:48.495 --> 00:19:50.317
My algorithm's weird.

417
00:19:50.457 --> 00:19:53.121
But no, but what is BPC-157?

418
00:19:54.082 --> 00:19:54.843
BPC-157.

419
00:19:56.194 --> 00:20:00.396
So BPC is a peptide, which stands for body protecting compound 157.

420
00:20:00.917 --> 00:20:05.219
It was just number 157 in the chain of experimentation it otherwise came down to.

421
00:20:06.040 --> 00:20:12.223
Largely, we see it in the human body in our gastric juices, where that's where we see most of our BPC essentially.

422
00:20:12.643 --> 00:20:20.928
So as a peptide, when it was otherwise then utilised through experimentation on animals and whichever, it was found effectively that for the purpose of

423
00:20:21.728 --> 00:20:28.275
certain recovery, repair sort of circumstances, it seemed to improve while using it essentially.

424
00:20:28.916 --> 00:20:42.129
We see a lot of manifestations where we get a lot of improvement, be that in people's clarity, be that in their sleep, be that in their gut sort of formation and whichever, but it's probably largely because they're broken and they're trying to fix that sort of thing.

425
00:20:42.149 --> 00:20:44.131
So it's still a recovery repair sort of peptide.

426
00:20:44.403 --> 00:20:46.885
Right, and we do have that naturally in our body anyway.

427
00:20:46.905 --> 00:20:47.846
We do naturally.

428
00:20:48.286 --> 00:21:01.916
So I guess maybe the story sometimes goes a bit larger in terms of, because people sometimes consider that TRT, be that testosterone replacement therapies or, you know, growth hormone therapies or HCG therapies are the same as peptide therapies.

429
00:21:01.936 --> 00:21:03.277
They're very, very, very different.

430
00:21:03.297 --> 00:21:03.597
Yeah.

431
00:21:03.997 --> 00:21:06.598
peptides because largely they're signaling peptides.

432
00:21:06.998 --> 00:21:08.958
So those are the most common peptides.

433
00:21:09.478 --> 00:21:14.259
All they do is basically say to yourself, please do more, please now.

434
00:21:14.659 --> 00:21:16.039
And then we have a bit of a break.

435
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.000
Do it again, please now.

436
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.260
And I sort of say it that way because it's just a gentle wave.

437
00:21:22.280 --> 00:21:23.260
It's like a little wave on a beach.

438
00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:24.821
It just keeps coming, keeps coming.

439
00:21:25.061 --> 00:21:29.581
It's not like you take an injection and then boom, all of a sudden that day you have a... You won't feel it in a day or two.

440
00:21:29.601 --> 00:21:30.141
Okay.

441
00:21:30.161 --> 00:21:32.922
Because I think if you're really aiming to get that response...

442
00:21:33.642 --> 00:21:36.683
straight away you're looking down the wrong path.

443
00:21:36.923 --> 00:21:37.303
Right.

444
00:21:37.423 --> 00:21:39.904
Or you're having doses which are totally inappropriate.

445
00:21:40.104 --> 00:21:49.866
So compared to like a TRT that gives you a hormone, for example, whereas a peptide… Hey, what's a TRT?

446
00:21:49.986 --> 00:21:51.046
Testosterone replacement.

447
00:21:51.106 --> 00:21:51.806
Okay, yeah.

448
00:21:52.166 --> 00:21:55.507
Whereas a peptide would signal to make your own testosterone.

449
00:21:55.547 --> 00:21:55.947
Correct.

450
00:21:55.987 --> 00:21:56.487
Is that right?

451
00:21:56.607 --> 00:21:57.107
Okay.

452
00:21:57.308 --> 00:21:58.428
That's why you'll often see that…

453
00:21:59.408 --> 00:22:05.891
with the greatest respect to people who go to a gym, some of the gym junkies who have been on testosterone for an extended period of time, they can't come off it.

454
00:22:06.552 --> 00:22:06.972
Yeah.

455
00:22:06.992 --> 00:22:15.316
Because what happens is with all actions that the cell otherwise produces, the action itself that it produces becomes a negative impact on the cell.

456
00:22:15.436 --> 00:22:17.577
So you, almost like a safety mechanism.

457
00:22:18.178 --> 00:22:22.180
So that by producing testosterone, the body senses there's a lot of testosterone.

458
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:27.002
So that testosterone negatively feedbacks on the cells that produce testosterone to slow down.

459
00:22:27.182 --> 00:22:28.543
You can't switch them back on?

460
00:22:29.023 --> 00:22:29.264
No.

461
00:22:29.364 --> 00:22:35.512
Well, imagine you're like, we have a factory in Australia that produces dolls, wonderful quality dolls.

462
00:22:35.552 --> 00:22:39.017
All of a sudden, I found a cheaper version in China that I can get for a quarter of the price.

463
00:22:39.718 --> 00:22:44.324
So all of a sudden, I start buying my dolls from China, influxing the country with these Chinese dolls.

464
00:22:44.344 --> 00:22:45.345
The factory in Australia says...

465
00:22:46.568 --> 00:22:47.188
I'm going to shut down.

466
00:22:47.489 --> 00:22:47.809
Yeah.

467
00:22:48.129 --> 00:22:52.111
We have all the problems we otherwise have right now in Iran and all of a sudden all the shipping shops down.

468
00:22:52.431 --> 00:22:54.793
Well, I'm going to go back to Australia now and I want to get my dolls.

469
00:22:54.853 --> 00:22:56.894
It's like, guys, I just shut the factory.

470
00:22:56.994 --> 00:22:57.594
I still don't know.

471
00:22:57.614 --> 00:22:58.435
I won't need it anymore.

472
00:22:58.555 --> 00:22:59.535
I wasn't needed anymore.

473
00:22:59.595 --> 00:23:01.776
So it takes a while to start the factory again.

474
00:23:01.936 --> 00:23:06.219
Yeah, because that was like always that sort of concern as well, like with the peptides and stuff.

475
00:23:06.239 --> 00:23:13.603
Like if you're taking them all the time, when you stop, does your body actually forget how to make it naturally?

476
00:23:13.623 --> 00:23:13.723
Yeah.

477
00:23:14.232 --> 00:23:28.185
I think this is where having medical supervision is helpful because the way in which and the regime in which we use them is to otherwise, you know, one of the regimes that I otherwise will use is to have them for five days, two days off, five days on, two days off.

478
00:23:28.205 --> 00:23:28.725
Everybody knows how.

479
00:23:28.805 --> 00:23:33.369
And then you'll have them month on, month off, month on, month off.

480
00:23:33.589 --> 00:23:34.891
The body's amazing at adapting.

481
00:23:35.231 --> 00:23:35.371
Mm-hmm.

482
00:23:35.531 --> 00:23:37.915
There's no, you can argue whether it might be addiction.

483
00:23:38.115 --> 00:23:40.138
Addiction would mean I need it now.

484
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:45.987
And often one of the questions that people will ask is, will I, if I take them, will I need to be on them all the time?

485
00:23:46.628 --> 00:23:49.852
Generally, my advice to someone is to say, you know what, let's do them.

486
00:23:50.533 --> 00:23:56.420
Almost put aside your prejudice, put aside some of your questions, do them for a period of time, look back.

487
00:23:56.980 --> 00:24:00.244
And then you can answer that question with knowledge, personal knowledge.

488
00:24:00.765 --> 00:24:01.165
You know what?

489
00:24:01.826 --> 00:24:06.191
Looking at the risks that I see and the benefits, I don't believe it's good enough.

490
00:24:06.991 --> 00:24:11.596
Looking at it, it's like, wow, the benefits that I see and what I do understand in terms of the risks...

491
00:24:12.177 --> 00:24:19.981
as long as I can try and mitigate those risks where possible, and I'm not saying anything about what they might do, you can then monitor that circumstance while you take them.

492
00:24:20.801 --> 00:24:31.866
And I guess that's largely, again, that problem where people are taking them on the whim or with the knowledge of someone who actually doesn't ever test these things or knows what the effects might be, because I'm not saying I know what they are either.

493
00:24:31.906 --> 00:24:32.607
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

494
00:24:32.627 --> 00:24:33.147
I don't know.

495
00:24:33.167 --> 00:24:33.647
Yeah.

496
00:24:33.867 --> 00:24:39.270
That's why I offer the opportunity to do it while covered with a level of medical governance.

497
00:24:39.430 --> 00:24:39.670
Mm-hmm.

498
00:24:40.110 --> 00:24:46.275
And I say it's a level of medical governance because I don't even necessarily know what testing I have to do for any particular peptide.

499
00:24:46.516 --> 00:24:48.297
Yeah, because this is all so new.

500
00:24:48.317 --> 00:24:49.578
Because it's so new and it's evolving.

501
00:24:49.598 --> 00:24:52.220
So what are the risks with BPC-157?

502
00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:53.281
We don't know any.

503
00:24:53.581 --> 00:24:54.522
We don't know.

504
00:24:54.542 --> 00:24:56.764
Because what is it, 50 years of study?

505
00:24:57.445 --> 00:24:59.687
We just don't know any that otherwise exist.

506
00:24:59.707 --> 00:25:02.049
Have there been human trials for BPC-157?

507
00:25:02.369 --> 00:25:03.450
Not enough, not powerful enough.

508
00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:03.990
Animal trials.

509
00:25:04.411 --> 00:25:06.092
Animal trials is no evidence of any problem.

510
00:25:07.042 --> 00:25:07.642
Not that we see.

511
00:25:07.662 --> 00:25:08.463
That was an animal.

512
00:25:08.823 --> 00:25:13.864
But the concern is always going to be, you know, will it trigger off a metastasis that might be there, a cancer that might otherwise be present?

513
00:25:14.384 --> 00:25:15.025
We don't know.

514
00:25:15.045 --> 00:25:25.968
Because one of the functions of BPC that we know from scientific studies, this is not questionable, is that it will increase blood flow to an area by causing this thing called angiogenesis, where it produces new blood vessels.

515
00:25:26.228 --> 00:25:26.508
Right.

516
00:25:26.768 --> 00:25:30.871
In tumour, that's what we worry about, the ability to feed this thing when it continues on.

517
00:25:31.312 --> 00:25:34.695
People are just taking it because they're just buying it from a crazy website.

518
00:25:34.795 --> 00:25:38.778
And I'm like, have you guys had testing done before you've gone and done this?

519
00:25:38.798 --> 00:25:48.185
Because, you know, my understanding is that if you have got cancer and you don't know about it and you just start taking a peptide, it can grow it.

520
00:25:48.686 --> 00:25:52.449
So is it really important to do a whole bunch of testing prior before

521
00:25:53.961 --> 00:25:54.921
having a peptide?

522
00:25:55.161 --> 00:26:03.064
Jess, that is a great concern in terms of if you do have a quiescent sort of tumour that we otherwise don't know about, that is always going to be the concern.

523
00:26:03.824 --> 00:26:13.428
In the testing that we would probably suggest slash demand from someone before otherwise prescribing the peptides, they're probably not going to find tumour in terms of what we do.

524
00:26:13.788 --> 00:26:17.189
And what we're looking more for is metabolic function and organ disease.

525
00:26:17.769 --> 00:26:22.651
what your basic liver function is, your renal function, your kidney function as opposed to renal function too.

526
00:26:23.171 --> 00:26:27.573
And so we're looking at simple markers, so both from a performance perspective.

527
00:26:27.613 --> 00:26:34.936
So we might do things like your serum cortisol, your IGF-1s, fasting insulin levels, all as a means to see whether...

528
00:26:35.716 --> 00:26:38.079
The claim is the fact that they may help with inflammatory change.

529
00:26:38.459 --> 00:26:42.623
So why don't we see whether there are some inflammatory markers which may be positioned that way.

530
00:26:43.304 --> 00:26:53.375
But we want to make sure that the really important organs, where they're purported to perhaps cause potential problem, are absolutely looked at so that, one, you don't have the disease before you enter into it.

531
00:26:53.395 --> 00:26:53.575
Yeah.

532
00:26:54.035 --> 00:26:57.677
Not just that what's it going to do as a result of taking the peptide.

533
00:26:58.317 --> 00:27:07.720
So often this, like I say, when people come for that purpose of asking, okay, I'd like to take this particular peptide, it starts a broader discussion about why.

534
00:27:08.361 --> 00:27:09.801
Okay, now let's have a look.

535
00:27:09.861 --> 00:27:12.382
So we never lose sight of the individual.

536
00:27:12.442 --> 00:27:20.205
We never lose sight of the fact that it's a medical issue or we're trying to medicalize this sort of circumstance and offer you a level of safety.

537
00:27:20.985 --> 00:27:30.849
And I think when you otherwise go from the other side sometimes, I think you don't want people to be in a circumstance whereby they have peptides and then will justify by tacking on medicine.

538
00:27:31.489 --> 00:27:33.530
It needs to come from that medical lead.

539
00:27:33.810 --> 00:27:35.130
Why are you wanting it in the first place?

540
00:27:35.530 --> 00:27:36.951
That's the first question that should happen.

541
00:27:38.011 --> 00:27:40.192
If it's from a vanity perspective, okay, put your hand up.

542
00:27:40.412 --> 00:27:40.632
Yeah.

543
00:27:40.892 --> 00:27:41.593
That's okay.

544
00:27:41.893 --> 00:27:45.515
So what we're doing then is we're screening you to make sure you're going to be safe while doing so.

545
00:27:46.315 --> 00:27:47.696
I want to do it because I'm feeling tired.

546
00:27:48.096 --> 00:27:51.358
Well, maybe we'll check your heart and lungs to make sure you don't have anything bad happening.

547
00:27:51.558 --> 00:27:51.818
Yeah.

548
00:27:51.998 --> 00:27:53.139
And maybe you actually don't need it.

549
00:27:53.179 --> 00:27:54.480
You just need to fix this part up.

550
00:27:54.500 --> 00:27:54.880
Yeah.

551
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:57.301
Maybe you've got really low iron or those other things.

552
00:27:57.321 --> 00:27:59.722
Just get an iron infusion and B12 ejection.

553
00:27:59.742 --> 00:28:00.803
It's not the peptide you need.

554
00:28:00.823 --> 00:28:02.324
You don't need the peptide.

555
00:28:02.384 --> 00:28:02.544
Yeah.

556
00:28:02.564 --> 00:28:02.944
Right.

557
00:28:03.825 --> 00:28:04.465
Okay.

558
00:28:04.585 --> 00:28:04.805
Yeah.

559
00:28:04.905 --> 00:28:05.125
Yeah.

560
00:28:05.525 --> 00:28:09.868
So that's the difference between, I think, being internet-led and being medically-led.

561
00:28:09.888 --> 00:28:09.988
Yeah.

562
00:28:10.423 --> 00:28:31.919
And that's the thing that's scary in the world of AI, the chat GPTs and that they put all this info in, all these prompts, and we know how clever AI is, but people think now that they can bypass a medical doctor and prescribe themselves based on the huge amount of information they're getting on chat GPT.

563
00:28:32.560 --> 00:28:33.941
It's actually a bit scary.

564
00:28:34.001 --> 00:28:34.641
It is scary.

565
00:28:35.242 --> 00:28:38.364
And I think also like this whole trend of peptides and stuff,

566
00:28:38.804 --> 00:28:45.809
Is it illegal for the copper peptide, which is the GHKCU?

567
00:28:46.109 --> 00:28:48.911
If you hear us saying GHKCU, that's copper.

568
00:28:49.011 --> 00:28:49.832
It's a copper peptide.

569
00:28:49.852 --> 00:28:50.392
CU is copper.

570
00:28:50.652 --> 00:28:51.052
Okay.

571
00:28:51.072 --> 00:28:52.313
What's the GHK?

572
00:28:52.733 --> 00:29:02.420
So GHKCU, so the GHK part, if you will, stands for three particular amino acids, and that is glycol, histidyl and lysine, and the CU part is copper.

573
00:29:02.620 --> 00:29:04.501
That is the one I actually am seeing a lot of.

574
00:29:05.301 --> 00:29:07.662
Is that illegal or it's legal here?

575
00:29:07.682 --> 00:29:08.082
It's legal.

576
00:29:08.222 --> 00:29:08.902
It's legal here.

577
00:29:09.343 --> 00:29:13.124
But like in America and stuff like that, they can talk about it.

578
00:29:13.184 --> 00:29:15.225
There's no like obviously FDA.

579
00:29:15.265 --> 00:29:16.545
They don't have those TGA stuff.

580
00:29:16.565 --> 00:29:17.366
Robert R.F.K.

581
00:29:17.386 --> 00:29:17.746
Jr. is...

582
00:29:18.546 --> 00:29:22.868
wanting to make them on the, what is it, FDA approval.

583
00:29:23.188 --> 00:29:24.168
How's he going with that?

584
00:29:24.188 --> 00:29:26.769
He just went through last month, I think it was maybe two months ago.

585
00:29:26.889 --> 00:29:29.550
He passed 25 of them and he's now passing more if he can.

586
00:29:29.890 --> 00:29:36.832
Interestingly, in the States two years ago, I think it was 2024, in August of 24, they banned BPC-157 and now they just put it back on.

587
00:29:36.852 --> 00:29:37.493
Put it back on.

588
00:29:37.793 --> 00:29:41.234
But largely it was not driven by the fact that it actually caused a problem.

589
00:29:41.674 --> 00:29:43.715
It was largely because of the way in which it was acquired.

590
00:29:45.044 --> 00:29:50.766
because of these concerns of, you know, what it was laced with, where it was from and the underworld business that it sort of worked out.

591
00:29:50.786 --> 00:29:55.408
So rather than change the process of how you acquire it, they just said, listen, just cut.

592
00:29:55.848 --> 00:29:56.208
Right.

593
00:29:56.408 --> 00:30:01.410
Now you can argue that there was a bit of pressure from Big Pharma saying, hey, you're paying our lunch here and we don't want to.

594
00:30:01.430 --> 00:30:08.253
So a Big Pharma now with FDA approval in America of all these peptides, are there now, like Big Pharma will produce these peptides?

595
00:30:08.273 --> 00:30:13.755
The difficult part, Bec, is the fact that you can't patent things which are within the human body exclusively.

596
00:30:13.775 --> 00:30:13.835
Oh.

597
00:30:14.455 --> 00:30:20.039
So where BPC-157 is found within the human body, you can't patent it because you've got it.

598
00:30:20.479 --> 00:30:21.040
I have it.

599
00:30:21.220 --> 00:30:21.680
Jess has it.

600
00:30:21.840 --> 00:30:23.822
But there'd still be a market for producing it though.

601
00:30:23.862 --> 00:30:25.603
So what they look at doing is they look at changing it.

602
00:30:25.643 --> 00:30:34.329
So the GLP-1 market, which you've talked about already essentially, those GLP-1 markets or drugs, if you will, have been changed so that their half-life now is six days.

603
00:30:35.571 --> 00:30:37.512
So we've manipulated those circumstances.

604
00:30:38.152 --> 00:30:47.835
And by manipulating those circumstances, we are no longer what was otherwise then present within the human body, at which point we can patent it for a period of time until it becomes generic and then everyone can use it.

605
00:30:49.276 --> 00:30:55.478
So that's a, if you're a bit more skeptical and unfortunately as you get older, you feel a little bit more skeptical about those things.

606
00:30:55.598 --> 00:31:01.860
What's interesting, you know, most of our medical education post-graduation is funded by big pharma.

607
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:02.561
Yeah, yes.

608
00:31:02.741 --> 00:31:03.561
Now, why would that be?

609
00:31:04.081 --> 00:31:05.282
Yeah, exactly.

610
00:31:05.302 --> 00:31:13.826
So back on their copper peptides, GHKCU, they are having such a big moment in skincare and hair conversations.

611
00:31:13.906 --> 00:31:18.008
Everyone's calling it the vanity peptide, the glow peptide.

612
00:31:18.028 --> 00:31:19.168
We're seeing so much of it.

613
00:31:19.428 --> 00:31:21.529
What do you think is driving that at the moment?

614
00:31:21.549 --> 00:31:22.470
Is it just social media?

615
00:31:22.770 --> 00:31:24.931
I think it's largely been driven by social media, Lisa.

616
00:31:25.471 --> 00:31:28.992
We actually use it from the point of view that it helps with collagen, absolutely.

617
00:31:29.012 --> 00:31:32.754
You know, it'll enter the dermis and then it'll increase fibroglastic activity.

618
00:31:33.154 --> 00:31:35.835
But we largely will use it for tendons and ligaments at the same time.

619
00:31:35.855 --> 00:31:38.356
What does the science say that it does for ligaments?

620
00:31:38.716 --> 00:31:41.097
It will reinforce the ligaments and make them stronger.

621
00:31:41.117 --> 00:31:41.997
Okay.

622
00:31:42.057 --> 00:31:49.240
It's the simplistic way because it increases fibroblastic activity, attracts fibroblasts and they will be reducing our connective tissues.

623
00:31:49.781 --> 00:31:52.944
So is that similar to the BPC-157?

624
00:31:53.185 --> 00:31:53.545
No.

625
00:31:53.906 --> 00:31:54.306
No.

626
00:31:55.067 --> 00:31:56.228
They work together.

627
00:31:56.408 --> 00:32:07.240
And then when they're combined with that TB4, the thymocin beta-4 or TB500, to some people, different molecule or different parts of the same molecule, but that's called the glow peptide effectively.

628
00:32:08.218 --> 00:32:25.864
So people will take the repair recovery part of BPC-TB4 and then they'll take the glow peptide part, which is effectively entering into the dermis to increase this fibroblastic activity to lay down more collagen so that you don't get the eruption that sometimes will happen when they first take that copper.

629
00:32:25.884 --> 00:32:30.206
You'll see people say when they take that copper to begin, for the first couple of weeks they can get a bit of a breakout.

630
00:32:30.466 --> 00:32:31.666
Yes, I have, yes.

631
00:32:32.086 --> 00:32:36.488
And that's where in taking the repair peptide, it takes that away quicker.

632
00:32:37.777 --> 00:32:39.639
So they'll take them in combination effectively.

633
00:32:39.739 --> 00:32:42.921
So if you take them in combination, you won't get the breakout?

634
00:32:43.041 --> 00:32:46.704
No, you will get the breakout, but the recovery process to that is a little bit easier.

635
00:32:47.304 --> 00:32:57.471
And you're also then, while trying to organise this, or you're laying down fibroblastic tissue, what you're trying to then do is you're needing to model it so you're trying to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

636
00:32:57.832 --> 00:32:58.712
And again, this is all...

637
00:32:59.673 --> 00:33:00.374
We think.

638
00:33:00.474 --> 00:33:00.934
We think, yeah.

639
00:33:00.954 --> 00:33:01.454
We don't know.

640
00:33:01.474 --> 00:33:01.895
We think.

641
00:33:01.975 --> 00:33:04.036
We don't have that sort of data to otherwise say.

642
00:33:04.056 --> 00:33:10.061
Are there – I'm thinking like right now, and especially if they've been approved in America, there'd be a lot of research going into this stuff right now.

643
00:33:10.081 --> 00:33:11.542
There is research absolutely going inside.

644
00:33:11.642 --> 00:33:16.305
And there's multiple sort of, you know, sort of testing sort of the way it's going.

645
00:33:16.726 --> 00:33:23.230
It's got to be big enough to otherwise – you need huge studies over extended periods of time to really prove anything.

646
00:33:24.031 --> 00:33:28.154
Like to get any drug to market will cost a billion dollars potentially.

647
00:33:28.174 --> 00:33:28.274
Yeah.

648
00:33:28.829 --> 00:33:29.629
And how many years?

649
00:33:30.250 --> 00:33:31.630
Oh, eight years plus.

650
00:33:31.670 --> 00:33:33.090
I'm sorry, unless it's COVID.

651
00:33:33.551 --> 00:33:35.611
That took eight weeks.

652
00:33:35.711 --> 00:33:38.352
What a joke.

653
00:33:38.452 --> 00:33:38.972
Well, you know what?

654
00:33:39.152 --> 00:33:40.813
We have become part of the experiment.

655
00:33:40.833 --> 00:33:43.574
And what we're seeing with that part of the experiment is... We might be all dead in 50 years.

656
00:33:44.634 --> 00:33:48.797
When all of these side effects happened, the medical committee was in denial, denial, denial.

657
00:33:48.857 --> 00:33:50.619
It's like, no, they can happen.

658
00:33:50.939 --> 00:33:51.339
Yeah.

659
00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:53.861
So, and we're now working out what they could have done.

660
00:33:53.881 --> 00:33:54.322
Okay.

661
00:33:54.502 --> 00:34:00.887
So if we sold you that vaccine to begin and said, hey, these are the chances of this happening and this can happen, we all feel informed.

662
00:34:00.927 --> 00:34:02.889
And if it happens, we feel okay.

663
00:34:03.169 --> 00:34:03.509
Right.

664
00:34:04.569 --> 00:34:21.856
as a mentality if we otherwise then because we all want to feel like an individual it's funny, we talk about testing and the like and it's like a herd mentality if your result is between X and Y, you're normal that's the herd I don't know if you read a book to your children it's called Ferdinand the Bull

665
00:34:23.120 --> 00:34:24.222
I want to be Ferdinand the Bull.

666
00:34:24.382 --> 00:34:24.942
Yeah.

667
00:34:24.962 --> 00:34:26.604
I want to be the person who is me.

668
00:34:27.466 --> 00:34:30.169
I want to be you testing me, essentially.

669
00:34:30.489 --> 00:34:33.913
And so I think within all of those circumstances, me as the individual gets a choice.

670
00:34:34.414 --> 00:34:34.674
Yeah.

671
00:34:35.055 --> 00:34:36.016
I will take that vaccine.

672
00:34:36.176 --> 00:34:37.197
I will have that medication.

673
00:34:37.418 --> 00:34:38.479
I'll take your advice, doctor.

674
00:34:38.539 --> 00:34:39.741
I'll take your advice, accountant.

675
00:34:40.001 --> 00:34:41.122
I'll take your advice, lawyer.

676
00:34:41.843 --> 00:34:45.004
you still get a choice is what you otherwise do.

677
00:34:45.064 --> 00:34:47.265
And I think people just want to be respected in that space.

678
00:34:48.005 --> 00:34:56.227
And so that while peptides in a sense are a bit, ooh, a bit taboo, a bit I want to take, people are wanting choice and they're saying, listen, you're not helping me.

679
00:34:56.748 --> 00:34:57.948
I want the choice to do so.

680
00:34:58.548 --> 00:35:01.289
They just don't know how largely peptides.

681
00:35:01.677 --> 00:35:08.084
there certainly will be an economic element because there's no doubt that getting them from an approved place is a little bit more expensive.

682
00:35:08.504 --> 00:35:11.087
But you'd be surprised that it's not that much more expensive than you think.

683
00:35:11.668 --> 00:35:13.290
But it's a matter of what safety means to you.

684
00:35:13.570 --> 00:35:13.990
Yeah.

685
00:35:14.131 --> 00:35:18.836
Do you cross the road at the crossing, 20 metres away from it or 100 metres away from it?

686
00:35:18.956 --> 00:35:19.236
Yeah.

687
00:35:19.276 --> 00:35:19.777
Yeah.

688
00:35:28.207 --> 00:35:32.492
On the copper peptide, what are the risks and side effects of this peptide that no one is talking about?

689
00:35:33.392 --> 00:35:38.298
I think always you're always going to have, firstly, the first thing, like in all medications for us, is anaphylaxis.

690
00:35:38.998 --> 00:35:49.209
You take your first dose well away from anyone without any knowledge, whether you're taking that particular dose, which you don't know is inside there, you'll have an allergic reaction, drop dead.

691
00:35:50.046 --> 00:35:50.527
Whoa.

692
00:35:50.627 --> 00:35:52.129
Now, I have really dramatised that.

693
00:35:52.290 --> 00:35:53.191
I appreciate that.

694
00:35:53.311 --> 00:35:58.539
But anaphylaxis is certainly one of those circumstances, an acute allergic reaction to it in some sort of way.

695
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.542
Well, you presume it's copper.

696
00:36:00.961 --> 00:36:03.583
Yeah, because if you're not getting it from... That's my point.

697
00:36:03.603 --> 00:36:04.384
Have you seen this?

698
00:36:04.764 --> 00:36:07.306
Have you heard about any case studies like this?

699
00:36:07.707 --> 00:36:08.848
You can read case studies.

700
00:36:08.868 --> 00:36:18.436
There are lots of little case studies anecdotally, be that you read on the front page of The Age, someone losing their limb effectively from probably was sepsis that developed secondary to an infection essentially.

701
00:36:18.856 --> 00:36:20.658
But yeah, you can read anecdotally.

702
00:36:20.978 --> 00:36:21.458
Okay.

703
00:36:21.518 --> 00:36:25.341
Largely sometimes in medicine you have this thing that we call decision-based evidence finding.

704
00:36:26.122 --> 00:36:30.885
So I decide that peptides are great, so everywhere I look will be on sites where they say peptides are great.

705
00:36:31.125 --> 00:36:31.326
Yeah.

706
00:36:31.446 --> 00:36:34.288
So I'll find, you know, evidence to say that the peptides don't work.

707
00:36:34.728 --> 00:36:37.390
So you can largely manipulate what you otherwise want to know.

708
00:36:37.470 --> 00:36:38.711
So have we found those things?

709
00:36:38.791 --> 00:36:39.331
Absolutely.

710
00:36:39.712 --> 00:36:41.313
Do you read anecdotal case studies?

711
00:36:41.553 --> 00:36:42.173
Absolutely.

712
00:36:42.194 --> 00:36:42.554
Yeah.

713
00:36:42.574 --> 00:36:43.254
Okay.

714
00:36:43.274 --> 00:36:44.415
That's what it comes down to.

715
00:36:44.435 --> 00:36:47.718
What about, like, can you OD on copper?

716
00:36:47.738 --> 00:36:47.818
Yes.

717
00:36:47.938 --> 00:36:48.118
Yes.

718
00:36:48.458 --> 00:36:48.718
Yeah.

719
00:36:48.858 --> 00:36:50.999
And what happens when you have too much copper in your system?

720
00:36:51.019 --> 00:36:52.079
You get blue eyes.

721
00:36:52.439 --> 00:36:52.719
What?

722
00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:54.720
Now, that doesn't mean no, no, no, no.

723
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:56.080
As in the whites of your eyes go blue.

724
00:36:56.100 --> 00:36:56.700
You get rings.

725
00:36:56.720 --> 00:36:57.440
Okay.

726
00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:58.941
You get these special rings.

727
00:36:58.961 --> 00:37:00.201
In the whites, in the white part.

728
00:37:00.261 --> 00:37:01.781
In the white part, effectively.

729
00:37:02.261 --> 00:37:04.542
Because if you've seen the GHK copper, it's blue.

730
00:37:04.742 --> 00:37:05.362
It's blue.

731
00:37:05.422 --> 00:37:08.423
If you've seen it in the mountains of Brazil, you'll see blue mountains.

732
00:37:08.443 --> 00:37:08.503
Mm.

733
00:37:08.963 --> 00:37:11.164
Yeah, right.

734
00:37:11.184 --> 00:37:25.730
So again, if you're going to take it, it would lend itself to medical testing beforehand and monitoring of copper so you don't poison yourself with copper rather than buying it from someone's backyard or from an international website.

735
00:37:26.201 --> 00:37:26.461
Correct.

736
00:37:26.501 --> 00:37:31.847
And you don't know whether you've got a 5 milligram vial, 10 or a 50 because you hope that they gave you the correct one.

737
00:37:32.247 --> 00:37:32.628
Oh, my gosh.

738
00:37:32.648 --> 00:37:35.210
Especially when they go unlabeled or they're written in Taiwanese.

739
00:37:35.230 --> 00:37:35.811
Oh, God.

740
00:37:35.851 --> 00:37:37.473
There's some people injecting themselves.

741
00:37:37.753 --> 00:37:38.714
And then just on that point.

742
00:37:38.754 --> 00:37:40.436
Who would do that?

743
00:37:40.636 --> 00:37:41.497
On that point.

744
00:37:42.107 --> 00:37:43.368
Injecting yourself.

745
00:37:43.408 --> 00:37:43.608
Yes.

746
00:37:43.649 --> 00:37:46.311
So people take these peptides by themselves.

747
00:37:46.451 --> 00:37:46.691
Yes.

748
00:37:47.092 --> 00:37:47.933
In their homes.

749
00:37:47.993 --> 00:37:48.233
Yes.

750
00:37:48.593 --> 00:37:49.634
They are not doctors.

751
00:37:49.674 --> 00:37:50.795
They are not nurses.

752
00:37:50.835 --> 00:37:51.576
Well, not usually.

753
00:37:51.656 --> 00:37:53.618
And they're not like trained in this.

754
00:37:53.758 --> 00:37:54.298
Not shown.

755
00:37:54.358 --> 00:38:01.025
We saw this happen in this article, front page of The Age, where someone got an infection and he lost their leg.

756
00:38:01.966 --> 00:38:03.527
This is also risky as well.

757
00:38:03.587 --> 00:38:03.887
Totally.

758
00:38:03.927 --> 00:38:04.288
Totally.

759
00:38:04.728 --> 00:38:05.028
Yeah.

760
00:38:05.069 --> 00:38:07.291
The process of injections is a risky situation.

761
00:38:08.232 --> 00:38:08.512
Yeah.

762
00:38:08.592 --> 00:38:08.853
100%.

763
00:38:09.133 --> 00:38:11.616
I mean, you're injecting it subcutaneously, essentially.

764
00:38:11.636 --> 00:38:12.937
You're not going into... What does that mean?

765
00:38:13.117 --> 00:38:16.140
So that means you're just injecting under the skin and into the fat level.

766
00:38:16.160 --> 00:38:17.041
It's not going into like your veins.

767
00:38:17.061 --> 00:38:18.083
You're not going to a vein or an artery.

768
00:38:18.103 --> 00:38:18.323
Yeah.

769
00:38:18.563 --> 00:38:22.688
There's a bit of a misnomer that, you know, people talk about injecting it around the site where you're injured.

770
00:38:22.708 --> 00:38:22.868
Yeah.

771
00:38:23.268 --> 00:38:37.232
Unless you're formally injecting it into an area, and again, that's subjective in terms of whether it helps, largely what will happen is the body will absorb it through the veins and the lymphatics, goes back to the heart before it then enters the arterial system, and then it takes it to the tissue.

772
00:38:38.052 --> 00:38:40.633
So you don't need to be injecting it around a joint.

773
00:38:40.973 --> 00:38:46.174
And the concern with injecting it around a joint is very much that what happens if you actually got it in the joint?

774
00:38:46.883 --> 00:38:53.427
Then you've got a sterile area putting something which you're not 100% sure about going into an area where nothing should go.

775
00:38:53.888 --> 00:38:57.050
One thing people seem really curious about is long-term use.

776
00:38:57.350 --> 00:38:58.811
How much do we actually know right now?

777
00:38:58.831 --> 00:38:59.131
I don't know.

778
00:38:59.151 --> 00:39:00.452
I know you're going to say, we don't know.

779
00:39:00.472 --> 00:39:00.852
We don't know.

780
00:39:00.992 --> 00:39:03.634
About long-term research around these peptides.

781
00:39:04.054 --> 00:39:05.995
So like with copper, we're talking about copper poisoning.

782
00:39:06.316 --> 00:39:07.836
At what point is too much?

783
00:39:08.357 --> 00:39:11.419
And are there receptors that all of a sudden go, I've been overloaded with copper.

784
00:39:11.839 --> 00:39:13.060
I'm not even going to work anymore.

785
00:39:13.080 --> 00:39:13.240
Yeah.

786
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:14.361
That's a really good question.

787
00:39:14.561 --> 00:39:15.561
We don't know, like you said.

788
00:39:15.641 --> 00:39:16.782
We don't know is the answer.

789
00:39:16.922 --> 00:39:20.204
I guess what we do know is the fact that we can measure copper levels.

790
00:39:21.045 --> 00:39:25.648
And we do know the fact that when you're told at a particular dose, you're going to be taking very, very small doses.

791
00:39:25.888 --> 00:39:30.130
Okay, so that's why it's super important to be monitored, tested beforehand.

792
00:39:30.290 --> 00:39:31.131
And to do other things.

793
00:39:31.311 --> 00:39:31.611
Yeah.

794
00:39:31.651 --> 00:39:32.092
Hydrate.

795
00:39:32.292 --> 00:39:32.752
Hydrate, yeah.

796
00:39:32.772 --> 00:39:33.773
All of those things effectively.

797
00:39:33.873 --> 00:39:34.533
Sleep well.

798
00:39:34.553 --> 00:39:35.674
You know, don't stress.

799
00:39:35.914 --> 00:39:36.194
Yeah.

800
00:39:36.234 --> 00:39:37.055
They'll improve things.

801
00:39:37.215 --> 00:39:40.297
I think there's this perception that peptides will do everything for you.

802
00:39:40.317 --> 00:39:40.797
Mm-hmm.

803
00:39:41.157 --> 00:39:44.599
Peptides are there to help you achieve what you want to achieve.

804
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.781
So I think if you're looking at taking peptides, let's suggest you're doing peptides to try and improve a bit of strength.

805
00:39:51.081 --> 00:39:52.702
Well, you're not going to get it by sitting on your bum.

806
00:39:53.342 --> 00:39:57.024
You need to be going to the gym and maybe it might help enhance your response to the gym.

807
00:39:57.624 --> 00:40:05.150
It might decrease your DOMS, your delayed onset muscle soreness that you get afterwards, which will allow you to go again and go again.

808
00:40:05.170 --> 00:40:10.193
An AFL football club may have been caught out in that circumstance in 2012.

809
00:40:10.594 --> 00:40:14.456
But nonetheless, that's what it will give you as the individual potentially.

810
00:40:14.817 --> 00:40:18.439
And so I think it's important to know why are we trying to achieve this?

811
00:40:19.060 --> 00:40:20.101
What is it you're looking for?

812
00:40:20.501 --> 00:40:26.245
Let's look at the whole picture of you and then supplements are part of that as well as peptides potentially are part of that too.

813
00:40:27.033 --> 00:40:30.874
Okay, where do you see peptides going in the future here in Australia?

814
00:40:30.894 --> 00:40:35.635
Like, do you think they will become prescribed, prescribable, various...

815
00:40:35.935 --> 00:40:37.015
So you can prescribe them?

816
00:40:37.056 --> 00:40:37.736
I can prescribe them.

817
00:40:38.576 --> 00:40:39.636
Why can you prescribe them?

818
00:40:39.916 --> 00:40:41.116
Because I'm a medical practitioner.

819
00:40:41.136 --> 00:40:43.577
Yep, so can any medical practitioner prescribe them?

820
00:40:43.597 --> 00:40:44.337
Yes, your GP can do it.

821
00:40:44.437 --> 00:40:47.378
Yep, based on what parameters, like what presentation...

822
00:40:47.718 --> 00:40:50.260
Anything they want because there's no indication for these things.

823
00:40:50.300 --> 00:40:50.860
You're taking it.

824
00:40:51.001 --> 00:40:51.781
Everything's off label.

825
00:40:51.881 --> 00:40:53.683
So it's up to you as a medical professional?

826
00:40:53.703 --> 00:40:56.625
As the individual to what you feel is an appropriate circumstance.

827
00:40:56.645 --> 00:40:58.106
Do we have to sign a disclaimer?

828
00:40:59.443 --> 00:41:00.303
Yeah, yeah.

829
00:41:00.324 --> 00:41:00.544
I do.

830
00:41:00.624 --> 00:41:00.964
I do.

831
00:41:01.044 --> 00:41:01.464
I do.

832
00:41:01.484 --> 00:41:02.044
They're not...

833
00:41:02.304 --> 00:41:03.105
They're research.

834
00:41:03.145 --> 00:41:03.965
They're not correct.

835
00:41:04.305 --> 00:41:05.246
And I make sure that it's...

836
00:41:05.626 --> 00:41:10.308
I make that very apparent when people come to say, hey, listen, there is an unknown unknown here.

837
00:41:10.448 --> 00:41:10.688
Yeah.

838
00:41:10.908 --> 00:41:12.449
If you say, could it cause cancer?

839
00:41:12.469 --> 00:41:13.789
I'm not going to say, no, it can't.

840
00:41:14.109 --> 00:41:14.910
It may well do that.

841
00:41:14.930 --> 00:41:15.510
It may well, yeah.

842
00:41:15.550 --> 00:41:15.730
Okay.

843
00:41:15.750 --> 00:41:19.852
And I just want people to acknowledge the fact that they've heard that and that they agree to that situation.

844
00:41:19.872 --> 00:41:20.172
Because...

845
00:41:20.832 --> 00:41:21.973
This is a shared experience.

846
00:41:22.273 --> 00:41:25.934
For much of what I do as a doctor, I'll always be backed by medical experience.

847
00:41:26.455 --> 00:41:33.298
And I can then say, well, if it goes wrong and you get that, well, I knew that, we knew that, you knew that.

848
00:41:33.398 --> 00:41:40.261
This is one of those circumstances where it's a shared experience and you become your own N equals one, which is you becoming part of the experiment.

849
00:41:41.142 --> 00:41:46.810
I will guarantee you and my responsibility is that I will provide you with the best quality that I can.

850
00:41:47.330 --> 00:41:56.523
And I will give you a level of medical governance over that situation where I will offer you my medical services to ensure the fact that we try and do so as safely as possible.

851
00:41:56.643 --> 00:42:11.114
And so your way of doing it would be like test everything, make sure everything's looking good, then you get given the peptide and then monitoring it but then also retesting a couple of months or whatever down the track to make sure it's not ideal.

852
00:42:11.154 --> 00:42:12.956
That would be an ideal situation.

853
00:42:13.276 --> 00:42:16.899
See, many persons may consider these in the setting of injury and...

854
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:31.275
Now, you can't then wait for an epigenomic test that takes six weeks to come back before you're otherwise going to try something, nor do you need to do a $2,500 test or testing an equivalent amount to try and treat your injury because that's impractical.

855
00:42:31.395 --> 00:42:31.976
Yeah, okay.

856
00:42:32.076 --> 00:42:34.759
If you're looking at it from a longer-term perspective...

857
00:42:35.520 --> 00:42:40.786
My insistence would be that if you can't do that, then you need to be careful about whether you should be taking it first on.

858
00:42:41.807 --> 00:42:46.792
Simple injuries at times, you might say, hey, I might check your liver and kidney, make sure they're okay.

859
00:42:47.172 --> 00:42:48.233
Let's just be sure about that.

860
00:42:48.713 --> 00:42:51.256
Then we do that and we're a very short period of time.

861
00:42:51.676 --> 00:42:52.637
There is still risk in that.

862
00:42:53.198 --> 00:42:55.000
Absolutely.

863
00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:56.801
I can't refute that in any way.

864
00:42:57.122 --> 00:42:59.284
However, life is all about risk-reward.

865
00:42:59.444 --> 00:42:59.724
Yeah.

866
00:43:00.044 --> 00:43:00.605
Yeah.

867
00:43:01.005 --> 00:43:04.726
Do you ever turn down someone that's wanting a peptide?

868
00:43:04.826 --> 00:43:08.108
Is there like red flags and you're like, no, I'm not giving you this?

869
00:43:08.448 --> 00:43:10.429
And then also, is there an age...

870
00:43:11.432 --> 00:43:18.954
limit, like for instance, a 21-year-old coming in and going, hey, I want a copper peptide to vanity in skin.

871
00:43:19.234 --> 00:43:20.514
Are you like, hell no?

872
00:43:22.455 --> 00:43:25.475
Like is there an age that you're like, you are not having a peptide, you're young.

873
00:43:25.495 --> 00:43:26.136
Or a presentation.

874
00:43:26.176 --> 00:43:29.416
Yeah, because being in your 20s, like you can heal pretty quickly.

875
00:43:29.897 --> 00:43:31.017
You know, you still got that.

876
00:43:31.037 --> 00:43:34.338
And I understand for athletes are different, like really injured.

877
00:43:34.398 --> 00:43:39.739
But like, yeah, is there an age limit you're like, no, and you have to fit a criteria and have you ever gone,

878
00:43:40.099 --> 00:43:40.919
You are not having it.

879
00:43:40.959 --> 00:43:42.160
You've got a red... That's a red flag.

880
00:43:42.180 --> 00:43:46.942
My age limit would be an adult because you've got to be informed.

881
00:43:47.223 --> 00:43:53.046
And it's from a legal perspective because if I'm going to get someone to sign a consent waiver, I need them to be legally able to do so.

882
00:43:53.626 --> 00:43:58.288
I wouldn't be in a circumstance where I'm going to allow a child to take it and have a parent sign on their behalf.

883
00:43:58.828 --> 00:44:01.790
I think that pushes my morals and my ethics further.

884
00:44:02.070 --> 00:44:05.412
And some would argue and say, well, why are you giving people stuff that you can't prove?

885
00:44:06.212 --> 00:44:07.672
We do lots of things that we can't prove.

886
00:44:08.653 --> 00:44:12.953
In medicine, we do it still when someone perhaps has a tumour which is unable to be treated.

887
00:44:13.433 --> 00:44:17.074
We'll encourage you to be experimental and try to go into this trial or do whichever.

888
00:44:17.594 --> 00:44:21.895
I get the fact that it's a little bit different in terms of because it's a monitored circumstance.

889
00:44:22.535 --> 00:44:29.837
We're trying to do the same thing here, not at the same level that they might do within clinical trials, but nonetheless in a similar sort of type path.

890
00:44:30.637 --> 00:44:33.762
In terms of whether there's someone who's too old, no, no one is too old.

891
00:44:34.283 --> 00:44:43.118
In fact, I had a person tell me the other day that they had a lady in her 70s came up to her and asking for peptides, and she's gone, oh, my goodness, do you know what they're all about?

892
00:44:43.138 --> 00:44:44.219
She goes, I've been taking it for 25 years.

893
00:44:45.649 --> 00:44:49.353
My GP retired in his 70s and I need someone else to prescribe it for me, please.

894
00:44:49.373 --> 00:44:52.356
So do you have a bum bag with peptides in there?

895
00:44:53.177 --> 00:44:54.598
And she was on one of these peptides.

896
00:44:54.658 --> 00:44:55.840
So there's no reason why not.

897
00:44:56.140 --> 00:45:00.184
I think we're more afraid of older persons because they're more likely to potentially have a tumor.

898
00:45:00.785 --> 00:45:02.166
And that is what concerns us.

899
00:45:02.186 --> 00:45:05.129
So that is one of the contraindications is cancer.

900
00:45:05.910 --> 00:45:07.251
That is one of the big ones because...

901
00:45:08.192 --> 00:45:10.032
I can't say no, that it's not going to make it worse.

902
00:45:10.072 --> 00:45:12.133
And I would hate to be that person who makes that happen.

903
00:45:12.153 --> 00:45:12.553
Yeah.

904
00:45:12.773 --> 00:45:21.255
And I think where someone has a level of chronic disease, which is significantly impacting their life, you have to be very careful where you push that circumstance.

905
00:45:21.335 --> 00:45:21.735
Exactly.

906
00:45:21.755 --> 00:45:22.635
Really, really, really careful.

907
00:45:22.675 --> 00:45:26.736
So it's almost like you're pushing the person who's not yet broken, who's breaking.

908
00:45:26.836 --> 00:45:31.137
And that's where we're trying to support your lifestyle and support you back to where you want to be.

909
00:45:31.737 --> 00:45:31.977
Yeah.

910
00:45:32.538 --> 00:45:39.540
What's the healing mechanism that this peptide, body-protecting compound BPC, scientifically does to the muscle?

911
00:45:39.861 --> 00:45:45.383
So we're talking about BPC-157 and also Thymosin-beta-4 or TB500, Thymosin-beta-500.

912
00:45:45.823 --> 00:45:51.325
And the difference between those is the fact that Thymosin-beta-500 is a small fragment of TB4, effectively.

913
00:45:51.365 --> 00:45:53.146
So they're similar action in a sense.

914
00:45:53.747 --> 00:45:57.088
But what they otherwise then do is that they'll otherwise increase blood flow to an area.

915
00:45:57.648 --> 00:46:05.054
And they'll generally attract cells, or the theory is that they will attract cells, which will otherwise then help lay down tissue to otherwise repair.

916
00:46:05.615 --> 00:46:09.999
So they're almost like a signaling circumstance to repair better and to attract the building blocks.

917
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:17.585
It's like saying, please give me seven brick layers to build that wall and make sure the bricks are never in short supply.

918
00:46:18.265 --> 00:46:19.707
And that's what we're otherwise trying to do.

919
00:46:19.727 --> 00:46:19.827
Okay.

920
00:46:20.607 --> 00:46:24.289
So we're trying to increase the activity rate at which that otherwise happens.

921
00:46:24.830 --> 00:46:33.315
Hence the reason why people sometimes are concerned about the tumour risk because you've got ever-evolving cells which are turning over really, really fast and that may well otherwise happen.

922
00:46:33.375 --> 00:46:35.056
Yeah, so you don't want to supercharge that.

923
00:46:35.076 --> 00:46:36.497
And that's the concern that we always have.

924
00:46:36.557 --> 00:46:38.918
So that's the process in which it otherwise then happens.

925
00:46:39.058 --> 00:46:42.760
And there are certainly the biochemical elements within that sort of range, but that's what it does.

926
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:51.286
And they will secrete certainly some cytokines and the like, which will decrease pain and decrease inflammation a bit quicker than what you might normally do too.

927
00:46:51.626 --> 00:46:59.351
Speaking of, you said AFL players, these are banned for professional, any elite sports person.

928
00:46:59.391 --> 00:47:05.615
So they can come and see you afterwards once they've retired, but this is highly banned for an athlete.

929
00:47:06.095 --> 00:47:14.641
Any person who's associated with a code that signs up to WIDA, which is covered by Sports Integrity Australia, are not able to take, well, they can take it.

930
00:47:14.661 --> 00:47:15.582
It's not illegal to take.

931
00:47:16.102 --> 00:47:20.005
They're illegal to compete or to be associated with that particular sport.

932
00:47:20.045 --> 00:47:25.089
If you take a peptide as an athlete and they do a blood test, can they pick it up?

933
00:47:25.641 --> 00:47:27.443
Remember, it has a very, very short half-life.

934
00:47:27.463 --> 00:47:29.645
Yeah, how do they catch people out using it?

935
00:47:29.665 --> 00:47:30.766
I think that's largely why.

936
00:47:30.786 --> 00:47:31.887
Two weeks to five.

937
00:47:31.907 --> 00:47:34.350
Yeah, so traditionally in testing, we'll otherwise do urine testing.

938
00:47:34.370 --> 00:47:34.991
Yeah, okay.

939
00:47:35.031 --> 00:47:39.635
Now, I've just told you the fact that many of these things are gone outside the system inside a couple of days.

940
00:47:40.196 --> 00:47:44.320
So I think that's why various sporting bodies may have included hair testing now soon.

941
00:47:45.496 --> 00:47:47.397
Okay, the hair testing shows how much?

942
00:47:47.437 --> 00:47:49.218
Three months worth of drug exposure.

943
00:47:49.238 --> 00:47:53.699
Shame the hair's waxing, backside's cracked.

944
00:47:53.999 --> 00:47:56.280
But you can't cut that hair that's underneath the skin.

945
00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:57.581
Oh, yeah, the follicle.

946
00:47:57.601 --> 00:47:58.481
There you go.

947
00:47:58.521 --> 00:48:00.101
So they wait and they do it again.

948
00:48:00.402 --> 00:48:01.002
Yeah.

949
00:48:01.062 --> 00:48:03.082
And is that pretty reliable, that hair testing?

950
00:48:03.263 --> 00:48:04.503
It's becoming more reliable.

951
00:48:04.723 --> 00:48:08.084
Okay, guys, don't be shaving your heads and using peptides, AFL players.

952
00:48:08.365 --> 00:48:09.905
We'll get you.

953
00:48:10.265 --> 00:48:16.068
You know, you've got to think that perhaps there's a bit of that potentially going on and some people will run that risk, you know.

954
00:48:16.708 --> 00:48:17.508
Yeah, exactly.

955
00:48:17.528 --> 00:48:18.329
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

956
00:48:18.469 --> 00:48:19.989
Well, we know that countries have been done.

957
00:48:20.009 --> 00:48:21.250
We know people have been done for it.

958
00:48:21.450 --> 00:48:21.970
Yeah.

959
00:48:22.010 --> 00:48:23.251
Olympics and so forth.

960
00:48:23.391 --> 00:48:23.611
Yeah.

961
00:48:24.191 --> 00:48:24.571
Yeah.

962
00:48:24.711 --> 00:48:25.211
Okay.

963
00:48:25.432 --> 00:48:29.673
Now, the last one we wanted to talk to you about today, longevity is such a buzzword at the moment.

964
00:48:29.693 --> 00:48:29.913
It's huge.

965
00:48:29.933 --> 00:48:31.354
And peptides like epitalon.

966
00:48:31.414 --> 00:48:32.134
Is that how you say it?

967
00:48:32.214 --> 00:48:32.775
Epitalon?

968
00:48:32.815 --> 00:48:33.815
I call it epitalon.

969
00:48:34.015 --> 00:48:34.735
Epitalon.

970
00:48:34.836 --> 00:48:35.396
Epitalon.

971
00:48:35.476 --> 00:48:36.356
Epitalon.

972
00:48:36.517 --> 00:48:37.137
Epitalon.

973
00:48:37.277 --> 00:48:37.957
I call it epitalon.

974
00:48:38.017 --> 00:48:40.359
It's spelled E-P-I-T-A-L-O-N. Tomato, tomato.

975
00:48:40.499 --> 00:48:41.479
Yeah, yeah.

976
00:48:41.560 --> 00:48:42.040
Epitalon.

977
00:48:42.060 --> 00:48:42.900
Potato, potato.

978
00:48:43.301 --> 00:48:45.462
This gets mentioned a lot in the world.

979
00:48:45.502 --> 00:48:51.005
So are we looking at something genuinely promising there or is the science still very early?

980
00:48:51.125 --> 00:48:52.026
Talk to us about epitalon.

981
00:48:52.466 --> 00:48:53.126
A pit-a-lon.

982
00:48:53.406 --> 00:48:54.506
A pit-a-lon.

983
00:48:54.647 --> 00:48:55.227
A pit-a-lon.

984
00:48:55.347 --> 00:49:06.069
Largely the research around a pit-a-lon is from Russia back in the 70s and 80s where they did extensive studies through that period of time and nowhere else has that been replicated since.

985
00:49:07.129 --> 00:49:08.710
Have you seen Putin?

986
00:49:08.750 --> 00:49:09.510
He's still going.

987
00:49:09.590 --> 00:49:10.790
Oh, mate, whatever Putin's on.

988
00:49:10.830 --> 00:49:11.510
Yeah, he's on this.

989
00:49:11.550 --> 00:49:13.091
He's on some stuff.

990
00:49:13.131 --> 00:49:14.171
He's on all this stuff.

991
00:49:14.191 --> 00:49:16.071
He's on a horse with no top on his, are they?

992
00:49:16.111 --> 00:49:16.751
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

993
00:49:16.891 --> 00:49:17.812
And how old's he, 100?

994
00:49:17.832 --> 00:49:17.992
Yeah.

995
00:49:20.252 --> 00:49:22.953
We believe that what it does there is it increases telomerase.

996
00:49:23.493 --> 00:49:26.834
Now, telomerase will otherwise then elongate these things called telomeres.

997
00:49:27.474 --> 00:49:31.635
And telomeres are probably best looked at in terms of a protective element to your DNA.

998
00:49:32.235 --> 00:49:37.036
So they try and prevent DNA being damaged, be it by sun and the like, if you will.

999
00:49:37.676 --> 00:49:43.117
So what we do know is that telomere lengths, if you will, are associated with chronic disease processes.

1000
00:49:43.377 --> 00:49:47.318
The shorter your telomeres are, the greater the risk of chronic disease.

1001
00:49:47.338 --> 00:49:48.198
And the faster you age.

1002
00:49:48.478 --> 00:49:49.499
the faster you age.

1003
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:54.822
So in the longevity space, telomerase or epitolon has otherwise become quite a craze.

1004
00:49:55.342 --> 00:49:59.925
Now, it's quite a minimally intrusive sort of type peptide because you only take it every six months.

1005
00:50:00.305 --> 00:50:01.646
And is it an injectable?

1006
00:50:01.686 --> 00:50:05.989
It's an injectable form, but you only use it for maybe 10 or a 21-day sort of cycle.

1007
00:50:06.629 --> 00:50:13.233
Animal data shows the fact that, you know, we'll make rats and mice and rabbits and goats live 30% longer by using epitolon.

1008
00:50:14.098 --> 00:50:24.383
So largely it should be looked upon almost because we're not going to know in humans what's otherwise going to happen for another 40, 50, 60 years in a broader population.

1009
00:50:25.003 --> 00:50:29.025
And even then we're not really starting trials as much as we're actually all just trying it, if you will.

1010
00:50:29.545 --> 00:50:34.027
It almost should be seen like a small little insurance policy or a small little superannuation fund.

1011
00:50:34.607 --> 00:50:35.288
I'm going to do that.

1012
00:50:36.028 --> 00:50:36.708
Just in case.

1013
00:50:37.168 --> 00:50:37.389
Yeah.

1014
00:50:37.449 --> 00:50:41.610
And I think that's probably what largely drives a pitilong is a bit of, is there myth in it?

1015
00:50:41.770 --> 00:50:42.411
Absolutely.

1016
00:50:43.051 --> 00:50:43.331
Yeah.

1017
00:50:43.751 --> 00:50:44.311
Does it hurt?

1018
00:50:44.852 --> 00:50:45.592
Probably not.

1019
00:50:45.972 --> 00:50:51.514
And again, I can't make that claim, but some people believe in Santa Claus and some people believe in the tooth fairy.

1020
00:50:52.094 --> 00:50:52.335
I do.

1021
00:50:52.435 --> 00:50:54.756
I'm not going to debunk that.

1022
00:50:54.996 --> 00:50:55.696
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1023
00:50:55.716 --> 00:50:58.757
What I'm going to say is the fact that largely Santa Claus isn't going to hurt you.

1024
00:50:59.337 --> 00:50:59.517
Yeah.

1025
00:50:59.658 --> 00:51:02.219
We don't believe that a pitilong will otherwise do the same.

1026
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:05.700
But again, you do it, you get it right from the correct source.

1027
00:51:06.573 --> 00:51:09.217
And can you get, do people take it here?

1028
00:51:09.457 --> 00:51:09.798
Yes.

1029
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:12.883
Do people stack peptides?

1030
00:51:13.555 --> 00:51:20.659
Yes, they stack them in as much as they'll take them at the same time or with overlapping periods of time.

1031
00:51:21.240 --> 00:51:25.462
In fact, you can get peptides which will all occur in the one dose.

1032
00:51:26.162 --> 00:51:27.863
And so you're only taking one needle.

1033
00:51:28.384 --> 00:51:35.367
Certainly wouldn't suggest that very much when you're first beginning because, again, you're looking to make sure that they're safe in the first part.

1034
00:51:35.968 --> 00:51:39.770
So you would try them individually to begin before you would then take multiple sort of tests.

1035
00:51:39.910 --> 00:51:41.291
Just in case there's a reaction.

1036
00:51:41.491 --> 00:51:41.891
Correct.

1037
00:51:41.911 --> 00:51:43.311
Something with one and not the other.

1038
00:51:43.331 --> 00:51:43.611
Correct.

1039
00:51:43.892 --> 00:52:01.138
But over a period of time, if you've been able to demonstrate to yourself and to whoever might be prescribing that they appear to be safe and you've had testing which shows the fact that I'm not looking or seeing any ill effects, they may be happening but we don't see any, then you would feel more comfortable in actually stacking them together.

1040
00:52:01.608 --> 00:52:08.892
With the BPC-157 for, obviously, recovery, has anyone looked at doing that in a cream?

1041
00:52:09.272 --> 00:52:13.615
So the delivery systems are really interesting because people are looking at patches for peptides.

1042
00:52:13.635 --> 00:52:18.437
People who are needle-averse, you can take, as I said, BPC orally.

1043
00:52:18.937 --> 00:52:20.618
They're looking at even intranosal sprays.

1044
00:52:21.099 --> 00:52:23.340
So there are lots of different ways in which they can be delivered.

1045
00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:29.545
Largely by having it done subcutaneously, we bypass what we call first-pass metabolism.

1046
00:52:29.565 --> 00:52:33.508
So we bypass the ability or the need for it to be metabolized through the liver first.

1047
00:52:34.229 --> 00:52:39.333
So we can be sure that if I give you a particular dose, that dose is entering your system.

1048
00:52:39.694 --> 00:52:42.516
We don't rely upon the gut to absorb it or not to utilize it.

1049
00:52:43.076 --> 00:52:47.378
we don't rely upon the skin to absorb it because it might be too dry or it might be too whatever.

1050
00:52:47.879 --> 00:52:54.582
So it's more the reliability of dosing, especially when dosing is one of those questions that we don't know what is a safer or less safe dose.

1051
00:52:54.967 --> 00:53:00.512
Just to finish, I saw something on the news where they were talking about peptides.

1052
00:53:00.532 --> 00:53:01.673
Everyone's talking about peptides.

1053
00:53:02.113 --> 00:53:05.877
And they said in a few years, there will be a peptide for everything.

1054
00:53:06.457 --> 00:53:07.038
Everything.

1055
00:53:07.398 --> 00:53:09.880
For anxiety, for energy, for hair growth.

1056
00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:17.447
Like literally you name a health condition or a psychological condition and there'll be a peptide for a spray, a capsule, an injection.

1057
00:53:17.927 --> 00:53:18.808
What are your thoughts on this?

1058
00:53:19.128 --> 00:53:20.148
I don't disagree with that at all.

1059
00:53:20.248 --> 00:53:28.191
I think what will happen is the fact that you'll have your peptide and Jess will have her peptide so that they'll be catered for to yourself.

1060
00:53:28.211 --> 00:53:39.034
We're starting to do that now with even things like IV hydrations and the like, understanding what your deficiencies are and trying to give you some of those vitamins according to you rather than generic levels.

1061
00:53:39.574 --> 00:53:41.095
And I think that's what everyone's wanting to do.

1062
00:53:41.895 --> 00:53:43.635
We're sort of doing that with dieticians.

1063
00:53:43.676 --> 00:53:45.296
We do that with our PT trainers.

1064
00:53:45.376 --> 00:53:47.417
Yes, I do that with my gastroenterologist.

1065
00:53:47.437 --> 00:53:48.018
Correct.

1066
00:53:48.038 --> 00:53:48.838
Gut biomes.

1067
00:53:49.118 --> 00:53:56.043
I only take probiotics that have been specifically tested from stool samples of what I need and what I'm lacking instead of just a one-size-size-size.

1068
00:53:56.083 --> 00:53:56.483
Correct.

1069
00:53:56.503 --> 00:53:58.044
They're very specific.

1070
00:53:58.344 --> 00:53:58.585
Correct.

1071
00:53:58.605 --> 00:54:00.986
Like a probiotic, like a sommelier.

1072
00:54:01.446 --> 00:54:02.387
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1073
00:54:02.447 --> 00:54:03.148
It makes sense.

1074
00:54:03.188 --> 00:54:04.088
It really makes sense.

1075
00:54:04.108 --> 00:54:06.650
You know, if you don't taste bitter, well, why are you having bitter foods?

1076
00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:07.731
Yeah, yeah.

1077
00:54:29.329 --> 00:54:30.571
Peptides are doing the same thing.

1078
00:54:31.193 --> 00:54:32.555
Well, thank you so much for coming on.

1079
00:54:32.575 --> 00:54:33.156
That's okay.

1080
00:54:33.317 --> 00:54:34.359
And one last thing.

1081
00:54:34.499 --> 00:54:40.971
For listeners leaving this podcast are curious about peptides, what are the most important things you think people should keep in mind?

1082
00:54:42.312 --> 00:54:47.236
I think the important part is to understand why you're seeking to otherwise utilize peptides.

1083
00:54:47.656 --> 00:54:52.760
I think what you should do then is to seek appropriate medical advice and your first stop really should be your local GP.

1084
00:54:53.220 --> 00:55:02.727
What we need to do is to rule out any particular problem that you otherwise might have, which may be really quite very simple to otherwise then deal with and negate that need to take those things.

1085
00:55:03.407 --> 00:55:12.671
but also then to ensure the fact that you otherwise then get appropriate testing, more particularly appropriate supervision, and that you can ensure the fact that you get what you're asking for.

1086
00:55:13.151 --> 00:55:13.651
Makes sense.

1087
00:55:13.711 --> 00:55:14.411
Makes sense.

1088
00:55:14.471 --> 00:55:15.352
You're going to do it?

1089
00:55:15.832 --> 00:55:16.692
Do it the proper way.

1090
00:55:16.832 --> 00:55:18.273
Yeah, and not the Temu way.

1091
00:55:19.193 --> 00:55:19.613
Exactly.

1092
00:55:19.774 --> 00:55:20.434
Thank you so much.

1093
00:55:20.494 --> 00:55:21.534
It was awesome having you on.

1094
00:55:21.554 --> 00:55:21.894
No worries.

1095
00:55:21.954 --> 00:55:23.295
I feel like I've still got more questions.

1096
00:55:23.803 --> 00:55:25.483
Have we missed anything, listeners?

1097
00:55:25.523 --> 00:55:29.004
This is our second episode exploring the world of peptides and wellness trends.

1098
00:55:29.324 --> 00:55:39.627
So if you missed our first episode on GLP-1 medications and the conversation around them, head to our show notes or Instagram at Vanish Podcast for the link.

1099
00:55:39.647 --> 00:55:40.707
We'd love to hear from you.

1100
00:55:40.827 --> 00:55:43.608
What peptide topics are you still curious about?

1101
00:55:43.928 --> 00:55:50.129
Send us your DMs, a slide into the Vanish Podcast DMs, and send us voice notes as well.

1102
00:55:50.149 --> 00:55:51.590
We'd love to hear from you.

1103
00:55:51.910 --> 00:55:52.490
Bye for now.

1104
00:55:59.248 --> 00:55:59.971
Gonna say.