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Hey guys, I just want to tell you about something else that Bill Voldemort and I are working on. It's called Living Influence Leadership. It's for business leaders who also happen to be Christians. We think we've got some great stuff that can be amazing in your companies. It wasn't mine. Check us out at livinginfluenceleadership.com.

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Welcome to Living Influence. Hey, we're excited to have you here again. Just a couple of notes. One, Living Influence, the book, is gonna be coming out in a few months. And so hopefully there'll be a link on the screen where you can go to livinginfluence.com to learn more information about that.

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And the second thing is we have Living Influence Leadership Conferences starting in September. I think we've got two scheduled this year. An exclusive time with Bill Forall, Voldemort, and myself talking about how these principles of grace and influence can change the culture of your business. And we'd really love for you to check that out if you're interested. We've been talking about...

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our reader, our listeners and our readers of this book. And we've been talking about parenting. And so, Voldemort, I want you to have a conversation with Bill and just kind of maybe start us off about parenting. Parenting, so important. Amen. Boy, it's critical.

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Building on our last discussion. Right. Now, you have how many kids? I have five kids. Five kids. Thank you. They're all quite grown now. So the youngest is 19. Mm-hmm. But I was thinking about the earlier years. Yes. And we started out with...

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five kids under the age of nine. We lived in San Antonio, Texas at the time. My wife, Ann, was in the Army. She was an Army nurse stationed at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. And I was starting my career in financial services. I was just thinking back to that time and how committed we were as a couple first, absolutely loving Jesus and really following God's heart. And boy, did we want to have a family together.

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that was healthy and love God. And just thinking back to that time, how desperately we wanted to do things really well. And I know there's parents listening to our podcast right now that can resonate. Like, I want to do this right, God. I want to do it right. Absolutely. We read lots of books. I remember one book, Growing Kids, God's Way. Gosh, if we could just do it God's way, it would work. God has such amazing truths and principles. Please, God, let us do this well.

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And just that realization, the first few times where things didn't work out. I mean, it was something as simple as at school. Our son would, he bit a classmate. Oh, that's the end of the world. It's not working. All this isn't working.

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Then it upgraded to turning off the teacher's computer and putting peanut butter on her chair. You know? And then, of course, it just—more and more things happen. And I'm being a little bit silly. But this idea of— That's not silly at all. That's life. Boy, this is—their behavior is not me. Yes. Yes.

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Yeah, the word in my mind is, I want to be, we wanted to be that, I'm going to say it this way, that perfect Facebook Christian family. Gosh, absolutely. And then life happens. And then life happens. Life happens. Yeah, your kid gets kicked out of the child care at church because he bit the teacher.

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So, Bill, what advice would you have given to my family back then, to me and my family? That's a very deep and a very important question, isn't it? And partly I would say this, how in the world do I as a parent learn that my faith must be real for me so that I can be real for their sake?

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We were hoping that our kids somehow would not demonstrate the evidence of the sin that was in them.

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Cross my fingers. Exactly. And that's a fallacy. See, that's a fallacy. We have a bad theology when we idealize our faith. We have a bad theology when we idealize our family. It's a really important theology for me as a Christian parent to have this dynamic. God, teach me.

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how to love a child who has sin in them, and teach me how to respond to the sin that they do.

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Aren't I supposed to just spank the scent out? Exactly. Exactly. I'm saying that very carefully. It's a bearable statement. Yeah, exactly. I'm saying it very carefully so that we don't make the assumption that our kids shouldn't do those things. And when they do, it shows how bad a parent we are. No, you know what a really good parent is?

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A really good parent is the one that reacts well to their child's misbehavior. A bad parent is the parent who is shocked by their child's misbehavior. And you know what that child learns to do to that parent? That child learns to hide from that parent.

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Early on, right? Early on. Very early on. Every once in a while, not so much now, but years and years, I would go into a seminary or a Bible college and meet with the faculty, and I would say to them, This is my opinion, but the greatest gift you can give to these students while you have them for two to four years is to teach them to hide nothing. Now, let's transfer that to your question.

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Do you know it's extremely healthy that your children in those years actually told on themselves how screwed up they were and what they did? Now, you appropriately dealt with their behavior, but we've got to be really careful. How do we learn as Christian parents to deal with our children's behavior while still honoring their person? That, to me, it's like, let's not be surprised.

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Let's not be surprised by the reality of the power of sin that is in them. Let's be amazed at the redemptive power of God for their benefit and ours. So it's like, did you and Ann do anything wrong? I probably. But is that the issue? No. Did you and Ann do a lot of things right? Yes, you did.

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How would I know that you and Ed did a lot of things right when they were little? Because I know your children as adults. And I know at the core of each of your five children is a genuine faith in Jesus Christ. Amen. What more could we want as Christian parents?

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So that this idea that we want to make sure that our children make fewer mistakes than the neighbor's kids who don't know Jesus. No, don't do that to your kid. Don't do that to them. Help them to understand. I say this, I've said this to a lot of parents. You know what you want as a parent?

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You want your children to have had one, two, or three major crises before they leave home so you can help them process their crises. So that when they leave home, they are prepared to not avoid crisis because you can't. Life happens. Life happens.

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Okay, so you want your kids to have two or three major crises before they leave home so that you can help them process it. Process the crisis. Or not to hide. So what did you do?

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To, like, enable that. I didn't have to enable anything. Yeah. It's called life. It's called life. Crisis happened. So they're just going to happen. They're going to happen. You're just watching for them. You're watching for them so that if, back to our first week, if I'm a parent that my children trust—

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then my children are going to not be afraid to tell me what's happening in their reality. About the crisis. About the crisis. And if they don't trust you, they won't. They'll handle the crisis in isolation. They will. And the minute that happens, we've weakened their tomorrows. Yeah. We've really weakened their tomorrows. We want to strengthen their tomorrows by helping them process the reality of what they're experiencing. You see, because, again, a child is very astute.

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A child knows that I'm in a Christian family, and I know that there are certain behaviors I shouldn't be doing, and I do them anyway. So therefore, I learned to hide from my parents because they think I'm an ideal child. I mean, the kid's not an idiot. He or she knows what they're dealing with. So how do we help them be real? They're going to leave home, most of them at 18, to work at college.

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We hope. Or we're very well said. Tomorrows are going to happen for them. But what if we were able to come alongside them and teach them how to trust God in the midst of a crisis? You know what they're going to do? They're going to trust God in the midst of next year's crisis, and I might not be around.

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So I personally can't emphasize enough this whole idea of, do my children know me? Or as a Christian parent, am I afraid to be known? And if my children know me and they're idealizing me, which we talked about last week, if my children know me and they're not idealizing me, then I will be available for them.

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because they need me. I've sat across the table from hundreds of people over my life, and I've heard this. We've all heard it many times. Well, I know. I'm sure my dad loved me. He just never told me he loved me. I'm sure my parents loved me. They never told me they loved me.

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The person is really saying, I'm not sure I was ever loved. It's imperative that our children know that they are loved. And it's imperative that their person is significant. And we never measure them by their behavior. I'm a more introverted person, so I'd rather just be quiet at times and just pick up the kids from school or drive them to sports and just ask them about their day.

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You know, what did you do? What are you thinking? How are you doing? And the more I've come in touch with this principle of being known. Right. Can lead to being trusted. And then you have influence. Absolutely. Because I just started practicing forcing myself.

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To just talk about my day. Good. And what's on my mind. And what have I been learning or struggling. Ah, Walter, it's invaluable for your kids. Why are kids just, suddenly they want to tell me more. Suddenly they want to trust me more with what they're not sure about. You're practicing the very things we're talking about. Yeah. That's how it works. Mom and dad, your children want to know you. You.

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They really want to know you. They want to honor you. They want to be thankful for you. Let them. My wife and I intentionally, we have nine grandchildren. When the boys turn 16, I take them on an adventure that they get to choose.

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Well, I have a motive in the adventure, not to just go fishing or go backpacking. Every day while I'm with them, usually seven to ten days, every day that I'm with them, I tell them one of my most significant life lessons. Oh, wow. That's great. Every day. And my oldest grandson, tell me some more. I said, no, you're going to end a day. Just one a day. Okay.

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And what I'm doing is I'm being intentional to be known. I have a great relationship, in my opinion, with all of our grandkids. I have a great relationship with our children. Yeah. And our oldest granddaughter, because she didn't go on a... She and I ate at a hamburger place here in Phoenix several times a year. We'd go out to lunch and get a hamburger. She loved it. Our next oldest daughter, she loves deli, so we would get a...

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We'd go to a deli and get a sandwich. And then our youngest granddaughter, she and I would go to lunch because she likes Asian food. But every time, I would do the same thing. So our oldest granddaughter, she's now, she was there in college, and she graduates from college. And my wife and I said to her, Brittany, what would you like for your college graduation? And this makes me really emotional. She said, she called me Jaja. She says, I want Jaja to take me fishing.

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So my oldest granddaughter, for her graduation, went fishing with her grandfather up in Wyoming. You got a picture of it. I got a large picture of it on the wall in my office. It's just beautiful. Yeah. But to me, it's like a memorial. Yeah.

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to a relationship with this young woman because she knew me. She trusted me. She wanted to be with me. I don't know how many 22-year-old girls for their graduation would go fishing with their grandpa, but that's what she did. This is the best part of the story. I have fished at that same place for 25 years.

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She still holds the record for the most fish caught in one day. She caught 51 fish the second day we were fishing, which is unheard of. Scott's a good fisherman. He and I compete every year. We get up to 22. One year, I think Scott got 28. She caught 51 fish in one day. Now, back to your story earlier.

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I think, I think, Voldemort, that there's a principle here that I want to kind of draw in midair, if I could, because it applies to your, to the younger children. Let's just say this is a, the child's a baby. That's the rules. A younger child needs to be guided by rules. Over here,

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18, same child. The rules go to a point at 18 where there are very few. But at 18, the guidelines are critical for their life, and they go to zero. So no guidelines for the infant. No guidelines for the infant because they... Tons of guidelines. All guidelines. For the eights. All guidelines. Almost all guidelines. Lots of rules for the eights. Right. And there's a very interesting dynamic.

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At the middle, at nine years old, a man named Bob Beal has done years of research. One of his pet dynamics is this. He has all this research that says the most important year in the life of a human being is nine. And partly the dynamic is this. At nine years old, the transition for the child should be...

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Less rules, more guidelines, so they are participating in the choices of what's best for them. If Christian parents make a mistake,

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They have way too many rules to dictate the pattern of behavior. Let the child at nine years old, before them by taste, but at nine years old, let the child begin to make choices. Children are harder on themselves for screwing up than you are if they get to participate in the guidance.

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Yeah. They will. And so I put it in the back of my Bible today. So a lot of people ask us, okay, all your kids are 18. What were the rules? There were only five, but didn't start at 18. When our children turned 13, we'd take them out to dinner,

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And we'd talk about what it has been and what's going to be. And then we would have this conversation with our kids at 13. Now, starting today, and they'd look at us like, what? Starting today, we want you to know that for the rest of your teenage life, we have only five rules. Every other decision will be made on an agreement with you as a guideline. Interesting. Of what you should or shouldn't do. Now, the five rules...

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are so simple, but they really guided our teenagers. Rule number one, you're 13, you're gonna start dating. And all the way through your dating, the rule is you cannot date someone more than two years older than you. That's the protection of you. Because some 21-year-old guy's gonna wanna hit on you when you're 14. So just gonna tell you, rule number one. Rule number two,

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You're going to need to be on a team. When you get to high school, you're going to go on a team, some kind of a team. I don't care what it is, but we want you to learn to participate in a team. So our son joined the tennis team. Our oldest daughter joined the track team.

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And Wendy, she was so embarrassed that I was her father because I like to, when I'm at an event, I like to cheer and I like to get up and yell. And she would say to me, Dad, please don't do that this time. When I go to the line, please don't say anything. Please don't say anything. So she'd get to the line. She ran the 440. And then she had always looked to make sure I was in the stands. I just loved it. I just loved it. And our youngest daughter, she is like her mother,

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very non-athletic. And she came to me one day, she said, Dan, is choir a team? I said, it is now. So it was a rule. Why? Because we wanted them to be part of something that was beyond themselves. The third rule, which was hard for them, was at 16 they had to have a job. They had to have a job for their sake. We didn't need the money.

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We wanted them to learn the responsibility of getting a job, et cetera, et cetera. We know all the value of that. The fourth thing is this. You're a teenager. You've got friends. You're going to go out. And we always knew where they were going. But there was this rule that if you ever change location, if you ever started at A, but everybody wants to go to B, you had to call me. I don't care if it's 10, 11, 12 at night. You just call me.

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And because calling me gave me an opportunity to protect them. Mm-hmm.

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And our youngest daughter was especially good at this because I could tell by her tone whether she wanted a yes or a no, right? I could just tell. And so when I knew she wanted to go, no, you can't go. That's right. You know, and she'd laugh and then she'd go, I can't go, my dad won't let me go. I became the bad guy. See, but it was a way of protecting them from something that could be dangerous. Mm-hmm.

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And the fifth thing is that there were stages to their dating, in our opinion. All of this, you can have any rules you want, but these were ours. Well, what about the rest of life? That's only five simple things. Because the rest of life, we sat with our children and talked with them.

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about their life choices. And what did that do for them? Well, it included us, but what it did for them is it gave them ownership. I'm going to say that's really critical. Remember what I said last week? When our children are compliant, they will not own their choice. They'll make you responsible for their choice. But when our children participate in the consequences of their choice, they will mature.

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Now, by God's grace, all of our children love Jesus and are involved in ministry of some sort. But that's not the goal of all of this. Our goal is to be the parent that is available to help them so that when they leave us, they can practice life. Wow.

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Bill, thank you. That was amazing. I kind of think we need to talk about parenting a little bit more, but maybe older kids. Because, you know, mine are in their 30s and 40s, and I still worry about them. Mine are as old as you. I know. I'm the age of your kids. It's pretty crazy. You know, hey, if you're listening and you're a parent, or if you're listening and you know a parent...

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Man, this episode would be great to share, and we would appreciate if you would do that. Amen. Thanks for joining us on Living Influence. We appreciate you so much, and we hope to see you next week. Thanks again for listening to Living Influence. We appreciate you. We'd love it if you'd go to livinginfluence.com, contact us, and send us an email. We'd love to know what you're thinking. See you next week.