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I was thinking about my 85-year-old self and I know that that man looking back at me today

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would trade everything he has to be 32 again and not only just 32 again, he'd be 32 and picking up trash,

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having nothing. I know that I would trade all my wealth to do that.

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The wealthiest people in the world see business as a game. This podcast, the game is my attempt

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at documenting the lessons I've learned on my way to building acquisition.com into a billion dollar

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portfolio. My hope is that you use the lessons to grow your business and maybe someday soon

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partner with us to get $200 million in beyond. I hope you share and enjoy.

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I have been looking forward to this interview for a few weeks. Mutual friends of ours that

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turn me on to Alex said you need to get with this young man and get him on your show and then when

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I dove into his content and his work, I was blown away. He is brilliant. I'll say that very often

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when I introduce people. I think he's probably got one of the highest IQs of anybody I've ever had

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on the show and his content as it relates to personal success and particularly entrepreneurship

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is very unique, very special, very detailed and I wish we had three hours today like other podcasts

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have because we could we could use that entire three hours and still have a bunch of time and stuff

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left over. I was so impressed with him. I run into all of his content and then I said can you be here

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next week like one week from now and he goes you up on there and then he looked I think it was your

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anniversary or something. So I gave him a reprieve for a couple weeks and now he's here today.

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You guys this is like you're on the treadmill you're going to start running faster than you normally

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run and you're going to want to get to a notepad too. So here we go. Let's just dive into all your

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stuff. We're going to go all over the place. You have this really unique definition of even what

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opportunity is in and of itself that I've never heard before. So how would you define just the term

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and the concept of opportunity? So something that I was analyzing a lot because we get lots of entrepreneurs

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who are like hey, what should I do with my life, et cetera. And when I look at how my income has

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increased throughout my career, a lot of times it wasn't a function of the work ethic. In the

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beginning you have to work, right? But then the next big lever on that is the opportunity. And so

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if you think about any kind of output in a system as volume times leverage equals output,

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the work has to start. So you have to have something to multiply, which is the effort. And then the

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next is is that leverage. And so within the context of a business, I tried to define it for myself

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which was how many potential units of the product can I sell? And then what is the

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gross margin potential of the product that I'm trying to sell? And then what are the competitive

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dynamics within the marketplace? And so an example of something that has two of the three and not

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necessarily all three would be like if I want to get into telecommunications. So I said okay,

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I hate that I have no service like I want to solve this problem. And so I would say well,

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everybody needs phone stuff. So huge, huge potential market. The gross margins on an additional user

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is almost 100%. So okay, really attractive. But then what are the competitive dynamics?

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Oh, I would have a really hard time entering into this marketplace because it's super capital

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intensive, et cetera. And it's like, okay, so maybe the opportunity in now we rewind the clock.

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50, 60 years or 80 years. And that was the opportunity, right? Because you had all three of the

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dynamics. But then you look at newer things like crypto, you look at the cannabis industry,

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which is still nascent. And those were a lot of people smoke weed or want to be involved in

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that industry or participate in consuming it, right? There's great margins, especially if you're

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vertically integrated within the space. And the competitive dynamics are still like you can still

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be a new entrant and have a huge amount of market share as it's continuing to grow faster than

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the rest of the marketplace as well. So there's a fast growing market that's growing faster. So

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if you just stayed the same as the market, you're still going to outpace anybody else.

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Really good. And there's fewer people taking it up. And so it's like you have two,

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two competitive dynamic kind of like trail winds behind you. And so when I looked at like we

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exited our three companies last year, I was like, okay, I want to be really, really selective about

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what opportunity we pursue because I know that, you know, Warren Buffett's like one of my big heroes

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and he talks about how it's much more about not about how hard you row, but about what Boatran.

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And he tells a story about how he had a companion who was basically the same as him and they both

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split off from Columbia and he became Warren Buffett. And the other guy just had a normal

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career in the steel business. Yeah. Different opportunity. And so I think being selected about

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the opportunities we pursue is probably the greatest leverage point you have on your career.

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What if you're in the middle of one? So this is really interesting topic. I was thinking about

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driving in here today. I wanted to ask some of this stuff like your take on it. And by the way,

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our take is very similar. But I think this is an interesting time where perhaps you should be

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evaluating your boat. People just keep rolling. Yeah. They just keep rolling because you're so far

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and you're like, I'm 70% of the way down the road here. I'll just row harder. But I'm wondering

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about looking at that boat two things on it. One should someone that's really laser focused.

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Should they even look up and evaluate the boat? And two, what about these times? You spoke about

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Buffett had this great talk a few weeks ago about inflation and about maybe what your boat should

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or shouldn't look like in high inflationary times, which we're clearly in now. So does inflation

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impact any of what you've described in terms of evaluating the boat or what you do with it?

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I would say two components. So first would be someone's timeline. And so if they're like five

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years from retirement, it doesn't really make sense. You should eke out the compounding returns you

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have of the 30 years that you put into whatever it is. But not should. That would be, you know,

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if I were in that instance, that's what I would do. If you can think in longer cycles and you have

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one, two entrepreneurial cycles left, then you get the opportunity cost starts to really weigh in.

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We're like, okay, well, I might not make as much next year, but three years from now,

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I could be making five times as much. Am I willing to give up two years of earning to make five

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times more three years from now and then step myself out for the rest of that time? The younger you

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are, in my opinion, the more you should be taking those types of bets. And then within an inflationary

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period, this is, you know, Uncle Warren speaking, but you want to have things that have low capital

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expenses. So you don't need to add new equipment, new facilities in order to expand whatever business

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you're in. And then you want it to be things that produce lots of cash flow. And so if you have

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something that's high cash flow and has low capital expenses, when you're growing in an inflationary

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period, you can adjust the prices very easily. And when you make those adjustments, it drops

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straight to bottom line, rather than having to then go back by more equipment to which now has

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eaten up that additional cash flow. Yeah. See, I totally agree with you. By the way, this idea right now

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of, you know, scalability, which we're going to talk about in a minute, too. By the way, when he says

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young people, when you're listening to this man speak, he's 32 years old. And so there's two things

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about you. One, your brain's really big. And two, you have a wisdom far beyond your years. My

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sense is that that has a little bit to do with your relationship with your dad, which we might

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get into later. And the other is just vast amount of experiences you've crammed into, basically,

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your 10 years or so post college, right? One of the things you've been pretty good at doing,

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though, is using leverage and leverage to most people typically means borrowing money from other

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people. But you define leverage freaking brilliantly. So talk a little bit about what real leverage is

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and the way you define it. So leverage is the difference between the inputs and outputs in a system.

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It's the discrepancy between what you put in and what you get out. So if I have a lot of leverage,

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then it means if I put a little bit in, I get a lot out five low leverage. I have to put a lot

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in to get a little bit out. If I'm working at a froyo shop, I have to put a lot of time in to get

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a very little amount of money. So I have very low leverage. If I put a deal together, right? And I

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make a couple phone calls. And then that deal yields me $10 million from connecting parties and then

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maybe underwriting something. All of a sudden, that's a lot of leverage. So I put a very little

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bit amount of time in. I get a lot of money. And so the idea of using more leverage is looking at

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what my inputs and my outputs are and figuring out how I can create bigger, bigger discrepancies

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between those. Are there different types of leverage other than just money? Yes. Which are?

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So anything that increases your output without per unit of effort is leverage. And so that can

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happen in the physical space. So like a literal lever is increases your leverage. If I take this we

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take this podcast and you put it on YouTube, that was leverage because we put the same input in,

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but then we get more output. If I have a cold calling system and I'm able to now dial 10 phone

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numbers per minute because I have a dialer that's doing outbound, I have more leverage per unit time.

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If I take a form of media and then I transcribe it and then I also make an audio version,

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that is leverage. So all of those are different versions of just getting more out for what you put in.

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Hard question. So let's dig deep. I'm entrepreneur and I'm listening to this. It doesn't matter.

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I can even be self-employed. I sell life insurance. I'm a mortgage broker. I'm in real estate. I've got

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a cannabis business. I got six people working for me. And I now kind of get from listening to this

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dude and listening to Ed regularly like this idea of leverage is what successful and wealthy people do,

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right? They do it better than other people. This is a really big deal everybody listening to

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this right now. They do this better than you. They understand the concept of this better than you

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and to the extent that you can understand it and most importantly apply it is where you make a shift.

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So it's a hard question because you've answered it, but I want to push you harder on this.

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If I have any type of business right now and I've evaluated the concept that you've described here,

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how do I apply it? What do I look at in terms of buttons I could push to get more leverage?

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Yeah. So Nevolvarovka does a really good job of defining his four types of leverage. Now within

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those I described a lot of different leverage around one which is media, right? But you have leverage

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around labor which is you buy other people's time so that is the first version of leverage. So is

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there something that I'm currently doing that I can pay someone else to do to gain time back and

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then use the access time I have to make up the difference. So if I can pay someone $10 an hour and

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I know that I can make $50 an hour on the phone selling, then I can pay somebody to do any of my

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tasks for $10 and then I make up the time selling. Stay on that. Brilliant. We're going to go to the

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other side. I'll just stay on that. This is something I struggled with young. I don't know if you

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did. When I was young I didn't have a lot of capital I used to think no I'll just I will do these

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things because I can't afford the expenditure right now. Were you ever that way when you were

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young in business? Totally. I just held on because I'm like I had to scare

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the idea that this may be the $2,000 a month that keeps me in business yet it was the very thing

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that kept me in the small business that I had. I think there I mean you got to work double time.

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I have there's no real sexy answer that I have for that which is just like you have to work the

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normal amount you would to make your money and then you work again to make someone else's money

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and that's in the beginning. So it's like I'm making my job and I'm making someone else's job so

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that I can buy that time that I used to work to pay someone else to then make more money in that

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period of time. Really good. And the big thing that I think a lot of guys because I on the flips

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out of the entrepreneur space the influencer or whatever space people are always talking about buying

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your time back but that they don't talk about what you do with the time you bought back. So if you

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just buy your time back and don't do anything you're going to make last money. I just want to be clear

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but because I had an entrepreneur who was talking about all my time back he's like I'm really not

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making it. I was like you're not doing anything like you still need to work you just got to now work

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on higher leverage opportunities more dollars per time. So in that that input is my time my output is

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my money so it's a higher leverage very way time. What are the other three? So you got labor which is

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which is the most operationally complex and heavy of the types of leverage. The next one is capital

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if you can raise money leverage other people. That's the one that you know the mortgage workers

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that are more familiar with real estate guys because if I don't have to put any money up and I can

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buy something and then I can sell it for more money than I get to make the difference between

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those two things and I used it on some on basically someone else took the time to earn the money

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and then they just gave me that time if you think of money as a as a tradeable unit of time

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that I got to borrow and then make the difference on something. The third one and I think three and

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four kind of go hand in hand but it's you've got software sure code and then media. So code is

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just you know you write code and it takes you one time investment to get the thing to do something

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and then every additional time so the input was the time I took to build once and then every

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additional person who uses software and gets a benefit from it I get almost no incremental cost

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and so that's leverage and then with the the media side we you know said it earlier if it takes

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the amount of time for us to make this one podcast if one person listens to this or a million

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people listen to this it's the same amount of effort. Yeah.

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Hey most in Asian quick break just to let you know that we've been starting to post on LinkedIn

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and want to connect with you all right so send me a connection request and note letting me know

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that you listen to the show and I will accept it there's anyone you think that we should be

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connected with tag them in one of my or layless posts and I will give you all the love in the world

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all right so let's get back to the show I told you guys when I introduced some of this be

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stuff you not heard before so and it is there's another type of leverage and I really related to this

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I'm I'm 20 years further down the road than you on some of these things but I very much relate

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to some of the things you talk about obviously you have this relationship with your dad maybe we'll

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go there but that you were you know just trying to prove him wrong all the time but you said something

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and one of your quotes you said I found out later that I was constantly trying to prove a

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fictitious person wrong meaning the type of leverage that I got on myself when I was young

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yeah I'm gonna prove them wrong I'm gonna prove them wrong and I was like this I mean I think the

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best way to describe me as an early entrepreneur was a little bit angry and I I leveraged intensity

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I leveraged anger I actually leveraged fear of losing to this fictitious person of them being

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right and I by the way some of that probably served me really really well but I don't know that it

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was healthy long term so what about that getting leverage on yourself idea would you recommend

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someone operate out of that space and talk about your own journey on it I would recommend you use

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the resources you have to create the life you want and so if the cards that you have dealt right

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now are anger and fear and disappointment then you can either wallow in those or you can turn

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something good out of it and so I mean I love the saying you can either let life beat the

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strength out of you or you can let it beat it into you and I think that you can use that you could

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put pain you could put disappointment you could put fear whatever that that life you know a thing is

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and so it's just a decision of whether these circumstances are going to serve me or I'm going to

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serve them and so I think that whatever your raw materials are a lot of people lament what cards

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they're dealt but you don't have control over those cards you only have control of how you play

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the hand and so I think everyone just needs to move past that and you know stop the

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pissing contest on who had a satir upbringing yeah I also think though that you have to be if

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you're making progress you know one of the things is made Jordan great or Brady great is changing

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the leverage they get on themselves so it's not that Tom Brady still isn't playing football to prove

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the fact that he was a six-round draft pick right but this notion that that's what he gets up

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every single day with that's the chip on his shoulder anymore is not true right he's now playing

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for greatness he's playing because it's a standard yeah spring this so and I found with a lot of

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entrepreneurs they don't ever change the leverage and so when they get to where they have proved that

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fictitious person wrong or they have gotten to where they are no longer starving they don't have

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any mechanism to drive themselves any further you know I'm saying like I do I think a lot of people

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are just oblivious to the fact that you've lost leverage I don't I'm not motivated anymore I'm

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not inspired it's because the old lever you pulled that worked one stage you need to now find

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Jordan used to say listen I play every day Jordan didn't take a bunch of games off he say because

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there's a kid in the stands who it's the one time he's ever gonna see me play is that night in

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Sacramento and even though it's the Kings I'm gonna play all out because that kid's gonna tell stories

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about seeing me play that's different than his motivation his rookie year to prove he belonged

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in the league right entrepreneurs don't find that new lever you obviously have so I've made some

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content on that specific than Michael Jordan said so I super resonate on that like that was my

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biggest of the whole series that I watched that was like the point where I like had to pause and like

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chew on it but it really made me appreciate like every every podcast every every opportunity that

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we have to share something to really try and bring it rather than call it in you know I mean

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but yeah for me my my leverage has changed I think I was really angry younger and more fearful

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than angry just the idea of the disappointment and him being right was just like unbearable him

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being dead yeah yeah isn't it do you think I think that anger is typically the manifestation of

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fear yeah and so I when I say anger I wasn't throwing chairs all the time or anything like that but

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there was this almost like game day intensity type anger every day out of the way I approached my life

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in my business so let's just touch on it since we've we've gone there for a minute because everyone

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has these different things to move them but as I get it your dad was a doctor and just no

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matter what you freaking did it was just never good enough right it was to say man you got you got 99

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on the spelling test what was up with the one you missed right or you know I made millions of

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dollars dad yeah but you're a Vanderbilt Magnicum Laudie blah blah blah why aren't you a brain surgeon

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or a neuro or whatever right so this was a driving mechanism for you as it has it been resolved now

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and I think a lot of people can relate to this I'm gonna prove my parents wrong I'm gonna prove this

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hater wrong I'm gonna prove this friend of mine wrong yes it has been resolved I kept leveling up

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the ante of like I would have make as much as my dad I want to make more than my dad I want to

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make more than my dad so for me his entire life like you know all of those kind of like points and

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then once that had once I thought it was beyond contestation it was undeniable and that was the

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I mean that was my first goal it's like I wanted it to be beyond reproach I didn't want there to be

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a pause or whisper or hesitation in saying you want and so after transitioning from that it was like

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I but I didn't have a gap in in in motivation though to be honest like yeah okay so yeah I didn't

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I didn't really have a gap from there it was just what else can I do and how big can this get and

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I want to see what life looks like when we're there I think that's the separator though I think

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most do and I think the reason you've had multiple exits and then you decided okay oh my

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second social media and then you've been good at that right I think that that's because you

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haven't had the gap but I think you'd agree with me vast majority of people listening to this either

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have not become successful yet or get to a particular level and they bought their time back and then

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they do nothing with it yeah like what you said they just can't find that that starvation fear thing

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that they had when they were broke they just don't have it now that they're eating you know they

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can go to masters and have dinner and get a glass of wine once in a while right and they go okay

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that was it and I think part of that is because it was always this place to get away from

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and also that it's not become a standard like for me I think often in life we don't know

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we what do you get your goal or not as in material you're gonna get your standard long term

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so I'm always evaluating what my standard is and for me that standard is I want to be excellent

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I want to be great I also want to contribute and I know that guys on my show recently Rory Vaden

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he said something that's probably never gonna leave me the rest of my life he says you're

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best equipped and capable of helping the person you used to be oh yeah but what I heard was

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that's why it's incumbent upon me to keep growing and changing so that there are previous

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versions of me of people that I can help like I look at you and I there's a part of me when I was

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studying your stuff I'm like I'd like to become close to this dude because I think I can help him

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because I've been the 32 year old successful dude you've got a great wife that you talk about all

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the time I want to watch you the next 20 years like legit change the planet because I think you

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have the drive and the intellect and the experience to do it so but speaking of that time the next 20

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years I have this debate with my friends all the time and I'm like so if you could give up all your

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money but you could get 10 years back in your life would you do it would you go back to 15 years old

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again and as an inch I'm diving into your stuff and you literally said I would easily I think you

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said trekking from wrong I would give up all of my money to get 10 years back and be 22 years old

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again is that accurate because you're nodding but we're on audio okay and then and then you also

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connect it to what the next 10 years also means or doesn't mean to you yeah everyone like just get

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ready for this answer right yes it's awesome go ahead well I am I play with time a lot in terms of

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like when I think through decisions and so I was thinking about my 85 year old soften I do think

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that I'll be a billionaire multi multi billionaire just look on the math if I don't change anything

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and I know that that man looking back at me today would trade everything he has to be 32 again

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and not only just 32 again he'd be 32 and picking up trash having nothing I know that I would

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trade all my wealth to do that and so to the same degree if I would look 10 years into the future I

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know that that 42 year old would trade everything he has to be my age again and so it forced me to take

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a new look at what I was supposedly sacrificing time etc for for something that I know that I would

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willingly trade back to have the moment and so it made me experience the present in it through

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old eyes a new oh my gosh and what's that mean does that mean that you choose what you're doing more

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carefully does it mean you're more present in the moment what what is how does that apply in

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a manifest itself this is something that I think a lot about me too um so I so Caleb's probably not

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in the back um I call the grandfather frame give me two minutes so there's something called the

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frame of the veteran which is if you're really upset about something if you imagine that that

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thing were to happen a thousand times in a row every single day all of a sudden it starts to become

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immaterial because it's just how you expected it to be it's always this way if every time you go to

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traffic it's always an hour you're not going to get as upset about if you know that happens every single

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day and so it's called the frame of the veteran and so that was really good for helping me decrease

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stress earlier on in my entrepreneurial career I'd use that frame but I was like I wonder if I can

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think of a different frame that would allow me to experience gratitude because it's something that

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I've struggled a lot with I'm just not an inherently like I don't five minute journal every like I'm

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just not that guy and so when I think about my 85 year old self waking up in a body that doesn't hurt

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right and I wake up to my wife and I look at her and I'm like and she's so young because I'm 85

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and I'm coming back to revisit this moment and I'm thinking about the problems that I'm experiencing

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in the business I'm like how cool is this I remember when I was doing this stuff and experiencing

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these little problems like this is cute you know what I mean and it just gives me it gives me this

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huge veil of like serenity for lack of better term to experience the moment through different

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eyes and then to the same degree when it comes to like the rush and et cetera of like growing the

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business and whatnot I think what it does is it's almost like an Occam's razor of focus of like

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what are the few things that matter most right now are we truly helping the customer because when

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I'm 85 I'm not going to care nearly as much about the money I made but the people I helped and so

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I think it keeps the main thing the main thing and it allows at least for me and I want to be very

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clear I try to keep this frame at the at the forefront of my mind and I practice it and it takes

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time and I you know I catch myself getting angry I'm like hey I was 85 in this moment how would I

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think about this and then I reframe the whole situation just like the frame of the veteran does

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and so I'll tell you a short tactical story of this so this is going to sound really lame but I had

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a cat and it was two years old and my wife and I loved the cat really cool dude anyways he died

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had some weird heart thing and I thought to myself he's two years old what if I had expected

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that he was only going to live six months I was like what if that was what all cats normally

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only lived with six months and I got him four times longer than that period of time and so it shifted

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my like my my sorrow into gratitude for just all this extra time I got to have with this little

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cat and you can take care you can make it whatever you want but like that reframing things has allowed

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me to decrease my emotional reactivity to circumstances so that I can make better decisions in the

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present around people business etc and so that serve me well I am blown away that a 32-year-old

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has those thoughts but I love you because I've been having those thoughts all my life my dad died

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about a year we'll be two years soon and I actually moved it to one more day not my 85-year-old

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self but if I had one more day how much more grateful would I be for this challenge I'm going through

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right now or this moment where they walk through because I too start with gratitude I actually

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struggle with being present and I love these conversations on the show because I actually built

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this bizarre gratitude muscle where I was actually more grateful for the thing I was dreaming about

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that I didn't have than when I actually got it totally got it you know what I mean 100% yeah and

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like that's not cool way to live because you're always not where you are you're always projecting

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I'm like I would get more excited and more turned on about what I had not yet done that I know I'm

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going to do than the actual very thing I was doing right and now when I put it through that one last

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day yeah I go this is pretty awesome right now what would I give on that last day for this moment

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right now driving out here today I had a conversation with myself about the things I want to be doing

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now in my life because of this question I asked myself and it was interesting I was like if I had

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to choose what I actually drive if I were choosing what I drive out and do the show today with you

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and I have one other show the answer today was yes but lately there have been certain things that I

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was doing that I needed to do when I was young and coming through that I no longer need to do and

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that valuation is really really healthy I'm going to give you the contrast now to your content so

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we've gone to this not polyanna but conceptual thinking but then you have this thing called the

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everyday urgency blueprint so I love the concepts of time because there's people like you know

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they're just like very spiritual long term thinking almost esoteric and conceptual thinking and

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then there's like the day-to-day what the heck do you do to get to where you can afford

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at these thoughts like conversations you and I have so what is the everyday urgency blueprint

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because this is some good stuff right here I'm really good you know it's the it's the chopping

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of wood it's the taking out the water we call it do the boring work which is repeating successful

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actions over and over again if it worked once it'll work again and more times than not people do

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something it works and they think oh I should change it yes when one of the big concepts that I

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preach at least in business is that simple scales fancy fails and so the idea is how can we take

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something like with scale comes complexity we do not need to add complexity to a system if you take

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a hundred phone calls a day and you turn it to 10,000 phone calls a day there is inherent complexity

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that gets added because you have more communication lines it from different people you have systems

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that have to organize it etc etc and so we don't need to go do more fancy things if we simply do

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the volume the complexity will come and so we don't need to add the additional variable of complexity

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to scale it happens on its own and so simplicity so thinking through the razor simplicity

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creates a forcing function of you remove all other things besides volume to the equation so it's like

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I can either sell more units or make them worth more that's it that's all we can do to make more

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money and so always thinking through that frame of if we're trying to grow the business do more of

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the thing right yeah right or make the thing more expensive or worth more to the customers we

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can charge more and ultimately make more for customer and so anyways that has been always like the

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to the rubber meeting the road of the grandfather frame of gratitude down to like you have to do

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the stuff that makes the money