WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.840 Real life presents the Jack Hibbs podcast with intention and boldness to proclaim 2 00:00:05.840 --> 00:00:10.320 truth, equip the saints and impact our culture. Hey everybody we are going to be 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.240 sitting down right now with Dr. Irwin Lutzer. You are going to be absolutely 4 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:20.560 challenged regarding capitalism, communism, atheism, belief in God. It matters. 5 00:00:20.560 --> 00:00:24.800 You're going to find out how much in just a moment. 6 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:33.360 You can get the outlines of this podcast by going to jackhibbs.com slash podcast. 7 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:38.560 Today if this podcast lifts you up and encourages you to live a more fulfilled life in 8 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:43.760 Christ, then make sure you leave us one of those five star ratings. To us that's 9 00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:49.200 like saying amen or yes, then that rating will encourage others to listen. 10 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:54.000 Now open your hearts to what God's word has to say to you. Here is Jack Hibbs. 11 00:00:55.360 --> 00:01:02.080 Well listen welcome to the Jack Hibbs show and we are delighted to have with us today a man that 12 00:01:03.760 --> 00:01:09.520 is not only a legend in our time. He's a legend in the library. He's a legend in the pulpit. 13 00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:15.520 He's a legend sitting at the table and I'm talking about the wonderful pastor 14 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:22.480 and tremendous preacher and teacher of the word of God at Moody Bible Church. Dr. Irwin Lutzer 15 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:30.720 and he's authored over 70 books and he spent 36 years in that pulpit at the great Moody Church 16 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:36.400 in Chicago and now we have the honor of having him on our program right now today. So Dr. Irwin 17 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:41.280 it's awesome to have you and we love you so much. You already know that. Thank you so much Jack 18 00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:47.840 and of course as I think about your ministry I rejoice in the fact that God has given you a wide 19 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:54.640 audience and you and I share the same passion namely to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to 20 00:01:54.640 --> 00:02:02.000 this generation but things are changing aren't they? They are changing and that reality brings us 21 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:07.120 to the table today. We're delighted that you've been able to come and we want to talk about 22 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.480 not only what your great book is about we will not be silenced but I'm afraid that this great 23 00:02:14.480 --> 00:02:20.160 book of yours may have been written a little late unless there is some sort of an awakening 24 00:02:20.160 --> 00:02:25.360 in our nation because it sounds like as a country we have grown silent. We have seen some bizarre 25 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:34.000 things happen in our political culture in our religious or faith culture but I want you to just 26 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:39.520 speak to some things that are on your heart because here we are sitting right now and in the midst 27 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:45.680 of the era in which we're in right now the political atmosphere we're in right now America has 28 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:51.840 recently made some decisions that are quite shocking and I'd love to hear what you are thinking 29 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:58.240 and what you're planning on and how you're going to address what we're living through right now. 30 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:04.080 Well Jack first of all since you referenced my book it has an entire chapter on socialism 31 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:12.240 and what I'm going to do is to begin by talking about why it can't work. Everybody says oh socialism 32 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:20.000 doesn't work but sometimes they don't flush that out and say why doesn't it work? So what we have 33 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:26.640 to understand is first of all socialism is the government taking care of the means of production 34 00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:37.280 it is the means by which you take control of the economy to bring about equality equality is the 35 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:44.960 big word now when it comes to socialism they love certain slogans you know not only free health 36 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:52.480 care but free buses free this free that like that so the other day I saw a t-shirt that said this 37 00:03:53.200 --> 00:04:03.600 the dream is free but paying for the hassle to get there is billed separately yes so the dream 38 00:04:03.600 --> 00:04:12.080 is free yeah have you ever noticed this about socialists they never talk about the ability to earn 39 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:19.040 money or to multiply money only how it's to be divided that's right so we have to begin by 40 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:24.960 explaining to people why it is that socialists run out of money now isn't it interesting 41 00:04:25.760 --> 00:04:32.560 that candidates who advance democratic socialism and we'll define that a little bit more 42 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:39.360 specifically right out of the communist manifesto the candidates that are running on a democratic 43 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:45.120 socialism platform where do they get all their money they get it from people who made their 44 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:52.960 money to capitalism that's right and then what becomes also very interesting is the fact that 45 00:04:52.960 --> 00:05:01.920 they don't understand this socialism pure socialism can never make money it can only spend it 46 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:10.720 so in other words to illustrate it let's think of a pie okay here's a pie and somebody says we 47 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:15.200 have to divide this up so that it's equal you know there are some people who have a bigger piece 48 00:05:15.200 --> 00:05:21.680 of the pie than this person over here he has a smaller piece let's make it equal okay so we divided 49 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:29.200 it all up into various pieces and then we give away the pieces and you know what we're left with 50 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:36.800 an empty dish right there no more pies no more pie and that's why socialism can work for a little 51 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:42.720 while until you've exhausted all the money that was made through capitalism and then you get into 52 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:49.680 difficulty and people need to understand that this is so critical you know perhaps somebody is 53 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:56.000 watching this and saying why is it that two pastors are interested in this why is it that we are 54 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:01.360 so concerned about what is happening in our culture how does it relate to the gospel well at some 55 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:06.960 point we're going to talk about that in this podcast and if not I'm going to mention at the end 56 00:06:06.960 --> 00:06:13.120 because that's very critical yeah absolutely very critical so here's what you have them 57 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:21.040 you have a system that is going to take care and actually what shall we say control the economy 58 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:27.360 sure to bring about fairness so what you're going to do as an example is you're going to put a 59 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:39.520 cap on rent okay who is going to build new housing who is going to invest in buying rental 60 00:06:39.520 --> 00:06:47.600 property nobody nobody nobody and so what you do is you control the economy you take out all the 61 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:54.560 initiative and what you do then is you have this supply of money and when you run out of money 62 00:06:54.560 --> 00:07:00.960 wasn't it Margaret Thatcher you know you're famously said you know the quote yeah you know the 63 00:07:00.960 --> 00:07:06.800 problem with socialism is pretty soon you run out of other people's money and then what do you do 64 00:07:07.840 --> 00:07:13.440 so people need to understand that it cannot work and you don't have to be an economist to figure 65 00:07:13.440 --> 00:07:21.280 this out right eventually the state runs out of money now let's talk about initiative 66 00:07:21.760 --> 00:07:26.800 there you go by the way in this book that we're talking about I think the chapter is entitled 67 00:07:27.520 --> 00:07:35.120 so capitalism is the disease socialism is the cure and that's where I discuss this 68 00:07:35.840 --> 00:07:42.800 what you and I need to understand is this and there's another slogan also that people oftentimes 69 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:51.040 use and it has to do with capitalism is based on greed socialism is based on need 70 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:58.800 is there greed in capitalism absolutely greed is everywhere the seeds yeah the seeds of greed are 71 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:10.160 in all of us but Jack the opposite is true socialism is based on greed and it's not based on 72 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:18.720 need so what happens okay it's 1985 I'm preaching I don't know where you were in 1985 but I took a 73 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:24.880 trip with my wife to the Soviet Union we were actually in Russia I would be there five years later 74 00:08:24.880 --> 00:08:30.640 really yes very fascinating I don't know how much better it was at that time but here my 75 00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:38.240 interpreter tells me this he said that he worked in a factory that made shoes nobody could wear them 76 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:45.680 because the contour on the foot was wrong the contour was backwards so nobody could wear them 77 00:08:45.680 --> 00:08:50.960 but they kept manufacturing them because they kept being paid whether or not people bought it or not 78 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:57.600 so it didn't matter whether or not people needed it or wanted it socialism actually is the one 79 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:05.680 that then makes things that nobody needs yes capitalism if you did that in a capitalistic world 80 00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:10.960 you know it'd it'd all be gone because if people aren't going to buy it if they don't want it 81 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:17.920 right then of course you don't do it it's fascinating what you're saying I not only went to Russia 82 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:25.040 shortly after you but wound up making 22 trips back to Russia and collectively probably 83 00:09:25.040 --> 00:09:31.600 spent over the years as though I lived there a year what people don't realize is that when 84 00:09:32.400 --> 00:09:40.480 Reagan said Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall we went in there and I was first of all shocked by 85 00:09:41.280 --> 00:09:49.760 the radical division between the old St. Petersburg for example the old Moscow 86 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:57.520 under Peter the Great very ornate very European looking buildings very old very beautiful 87 00:09:57.520 --> 00:10:08.000 large spacious parks all of this and then the Soviet era construction big gray 40-foot story buildings 88 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:18.640 looking like a mouse trap heartless cold bitter lifeless and the people reflected that culture 89 00:10:18.640 --> 00:10:24.800 there were those who remembered the past I had a woman doctor grabbed me by the face she actually 90 00:10:24.800 --> 00:10:31.840 grabbed me by the face she was in her 90s and I was preaching the gospel out in front of a metro 91 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:38.640 stop in Moscow and she dropped her her bags of mushrooms and she grabbed me by the face saying 92 00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:45.280 Slava Boga Slava Boga and I didn't know what that meant my translators telling me as she's crying 93 00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:52.480 this woman is speaking and she's saying praise God praise God I remember when the Soviet when the 94 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:59.360 when the communists came in it took the crosses and the icons off of our apartment and said God 95 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:04.800 God was dead and she said I've been praying all of these years that the gospel would be 96 00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:09.680 preached in my city again having said that there was this incredible stark difference and you 97 00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:15.680 said it exactly right socialism needs someone else to pay for everything that it wants to get 98 00:11:15.680 --> 00:11:23.600 its hands on it it claims that we need to be equal but the the equality is a lie because they 99 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:29.920 want you to work while they do not work they want you to produce while they consume I'm going 100 00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:37.440 to see if I can pull a quote out of my mind from Winston Churchill the great vice of capitalism 101 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:47.200 is the uneven distribution of blessings the great virtue of socialism is the equal distribution 102 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:54.880 of misery wow so true that so true and you know since since you get into that I have to do in 103 00:11:54.880 --> 00:12:03.600 1970 my wife and I actually went into East Germany and it's because I lead and it up leading 104 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:10.480 tours to the sites of the Reformation in Germany and as a result of that but we had to go 105 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:16.960 through checkpoint Charlie and all and so we get into Eastern Germany where most of the Luther 106 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:25.120 sites are the sense of deadness people weren't smiling and then you go in the store and maybe they 107 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:31.760 had one kind of meat exactly I saw that maybe one kind of meat maybe the next day they were going 108 00:12:31.760 --> 00:12:38.880 to have rice why look at our look at our stores right you can have this kind of cheese that kind of 109 00:12:38.880 --> 00:12:45.280 cheese you can have this my sister was a missionary in African she came back she couldn't even go 110 00:12:45.280 --> 00:12:50.480 into our store she was so frustrated she didn't know what she should choose exactly that only 111 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:58.080 capitalism can do that I was in another communist country where the man said the pastor said we 112 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:02.960 don't have any gifts to give it Christmas we sit around and sing Christmas carols and we bring 113 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:08.560 our food together so that we can eat but there's nothing in the stores the shelves are empty 114 00:13:09.760 --> 00:13:17.920 so what people have to understand is this something else sometimes it is said oh socialism makes 115 00:13:17.920 --> 00:13:27.840 it so easy because it isn't based on greed socialism institutes correction that's right why 116 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.920 if you want to earn more money because of your family working harder won't do it because you know 117 00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:39.120 you're put in this box you're paid a certain amount of money so you know what you do you game 118 00:13:39.760 --> 00:13:45.360 the system that's right over and over again and I discovered even Christians 119 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:53.840 in the Soviet Union in Russia had to game the system they didn't break any moral laws but they 120 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:59.280 broke some of the laws of their country like you shouldn't accept American money exactly I saw 121 00:13:59.280 --> 00:14:05.120 that happen I do you know that that's that's the law but they did because they had to feed their 122 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:11.120 families now something else that I learned in Russia the interpreter says nobody can live on the 123 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:19.840 wages that we get from the government so there was a whole shadow of an economy that was run 124 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:27.600 basically by the people in terms of bartering that's right you know I need some potatoes okay 125 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:33.840 I'll give you a barrel of potatoes or a bushel or whatever but you have to come and fix the door 126 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:39.520 in my apartment which doesn't fit let's see if we can work something out that's the way in which 127 00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:47.600 they survive right I saw it yeah and and that's the way things go and so corruption is at the 128 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:52.960 heart of the socialistic system now of course capitalism has its corruption too and we're so 129 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:59.360 thankful for the laws that are put in place and so forth now Jack since we're talking about 130 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:05.920 democratic socialism what do you have what do you have there I have the communist manifesto 131 00:15:06.640 --> 00:15:12.240 because of something else that I'm working on I've read this document very carefully and 132 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:18.640 what I have uncovered is so fascinating we can't even get into it here yeah but here's here's 133 00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:26.960 the word democracy so I'm gonna read the communist revolution is the most radical rupture with 134 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:34.160 traditional property relations no wonder that its development involves the most radical rupture 135 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:42.400 with traditional ideas but let us have done with the bourgeoisie that is the property owners 136 00:15:42.400 --> 00:15:48.720 objections to communism we have seen above that the first step in the revolution by the working 137 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:58.400 class is to raise the workers to the position of ruling class and then establish democracy 138 00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:04.880 so here's what you do you destroy all of the people the owners you have to get rid of them 139 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:11.920 because what Mark says early on is the heart of it is there's no private property so all the 140 00:16:11.920 --> 00:16:17.760 owners have to be put to death because you know they own things so you get rid of them because 141 00:16:17.760 --> 00:16:25.520 they're created there's so much we could say Jack when communism is implemented what the people 142 00:16:25.520 --> 00:16:30.480 are looking for who are going to implement it are criminals yes you have to be a criminal 143 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:36.960 it's always been the case you you have to be a criminal yes and oh there's so much else we could 144 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:43.760 get into but here's the point well let's get into it but here's the point so once you take the 145 00:16:43.760 --> 00:16:54.160 property away and you kill all the owners then you have established democracy that's what it says 146 00:16:54.160 --> 00:17:00.400 right here in the communist manifesto so there is a sense in which it is interested like 147 00:17:00.400 --> 00:17:05.200 Putin he has democracy that's right you know all of the communist countries they all have 148 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:11.040 democracy even though there is only one person you can vote for that's right but it is well you 149 00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:19.360 just raised a very very good point to to our experiment as Americans our founding fathers 150 00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:27.280 clearly articulated they studied the previous empires and the monarchies before and they concluded 151 00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:33.200 we will not have a democracy in America we will have a constitutional republic and no one had 152 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:39.520 ever done that before because prior with the divine right of kings and you may call the the 153 00:17:39.520 --> 00:17:45.760 Tsar or the Kaiser or the king but for America this was completely different and of course 154 00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:52.160 Ben Franklin said that he the founders provided us a democracy I mean I'm sorry a republic if 155 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:57.680 you can keep it what you and I are watching right now is a bunch of spoiled brats quite frankly 156 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:02.640 growing up with a basically an iPhone in their face at the age of one they think everything 157 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:09.200 just falls out of an ATM machine and that they want to they see a they see a car maybe it's a 158 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:15.040 Porsche and they want it but they're not willing to go to USC or to get the degree or to learn 159 00:18:15.040 --> 00:18:21.600 that skill that gives you the resources to get that kind of of an item and so you nailed it it's 160 00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:29.120 it's the criminality of the human heart longing and lusting for what someone else has I don't want 161 00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:35.360 to roll up my sleeves to get it I'm just going to take it from them and that's a bad day when 162 00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:42.400 that mindset becomes our government leaders we're sitting in California I got to tell you I have 163 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:50.160 to tell you I'm going to be honest I haven't said this to anyone publicly but I'll get over it 164 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:56.800 and here's the deal I listened to your advice some time ago and wrote a book with the wonderful 165 00:18:56.800 --> 00:19:03.840 people at Harvest House publishers the book did very well I didn't know what to do about that 166 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:13.120 and then I wound up realizing here in California how much effort I put into the writing of that book 167 00:19:13.120 --> 00:19:20.640 and the months putting that book together only to turn it the proceeds over by and large to the 168 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:29.200 state of California the the the magnitude of taxes resulted with this I don't in this and I 169 00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:36.640 want to make sure I'm saying this correctly it sucked the creativity out of me not because 170 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:45.840 it was a money issue it was because the effort was something that I would not see the benefits 171 00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:51.600 of it from my own fingertips to others in other words I couldn't make those proceeds and wind up 172 00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:59.680 sending more money to Samaritan's purse or to a homeless outreach no no no I had to send the bulk 173 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:06.560 of it to the state of California jack thank god that you were able to keep a little bit of it this 174 00:20:06.560 --> 00:20:11.360 is true I friend of mine told me you should be happy that you had to pay that amount of taxes oh 175 00:20:11.360 --> 00:20:18.480 yeah I'm not saying that but I'm saying at least you got a little bit of it in a socialist economy 176 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:23.840 you getting it yes yeah oh there's so much to say Marx said for example and it's all here in 177 00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:30.240 the manifesto that no child should ever receive an inheritance and the reason he said that is 178 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:36.000 that it's equal it's not equal you know in other words a child may have more money and everybody's 179 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:42.560 supposed to begin at zero so that you have equality now here's what I have to say 180 00:20:42.560 --> 00:20:52.320 Marx always was hitting on his father and mother for money always in fact you know what his mother 181 00:20:52.320 --> 00:21:00.560 said tell me she said I wish Carl were actually to earn some capital rather than just writing 182 00:21:00.560 --> 00:21:07.760 about it that's an actual quote now here's the point here's the point you're not supposed to 183 00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:13.360 receive an inheritance it's right here I could find it instantly and you know what when she died 184 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:18.960 his father had previously died he hired an attorney so that he could get her inheritance there you go 185 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:23.920 so there you go now there's something else I want to say and this is so important to everyone who's 186 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:33.920 listening human rights in the communist system you're not allowed to have freedom of expression and by 187 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:39.040 the way in this book we'll not be silenced there is a whole chapter on freedom of speech and 188 00:21:39.040 --> 00:21:45.920 arguments against it and arguments for it I help people to understand the communist side but here's 189 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:55.200 the point you're not supposed to in the communist system to have freedom because after all it is the 190 00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:01.840 state that gives you rights okay well the right the state doesn't give you right to criticize the 191 00:22:01.840 --> 00:22:07.840 state so you have no basis upon which you can criticize it because it didn't give you that right now 192 00:22:07.840 --> 00:22:14.000 I always knew that the statement you know that we believe that all men were created equal and were 193 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:23.360 endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights that come from God Jack that is radical 194 00:22:23.360 --> 00:22:29.440 it is radical because you see if the state gives you rights the state can also recent the rights 195 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:38.160 because the only right that you have now the point is this and you know we could go on and have 196 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:46.000 a even a longer discussion what did marks get wrong well of course you know we could talk about how 197 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:53.760 he tried to do away with God I think he believed in God by the way he was railing against God 198 00:22:53.760 --> 00:22:58.480 always railing against I love it I think you're going to say because how can you rail against somebody 199 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:06.480 that doesn't exist right right right he railed against God but anyway how can you do wrong if you 200 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:16.320 try to do away with God you capture all of the land owners and steal their property and you also 201 00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:23.280 take away people's freedoms you put them in poverty so what could go right but here's the point 202 00:23:23.280 --> 00:23:29.520 that I want to make and this relates to the gospel and maybe this is a good time for us to go 203 00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:38.240 there it all had to do with human nature marks believed in the perfect ability of human beings yeah 204 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:45.520 he believed that if there was a revolution and the bourgeoisie were taken care of and killed 205 00:23:45.520 --> 00:23:54.240 and the proletariat the workers took over that suddenly you would have this wonderful utopia 206 00:23:55.200 --> 00:24:00.240 and I don't have it here but there's a quote in which he said it's not in here it's in a different 207 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:07.440 thing that he wrote he believed that everyone would be able to only work what they enjoyed working 208 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:16.880 everyone would enjoy it he said I could do things like you know work in the morning in the afternoon 209 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:25.680 go fishing in the evening have discussions and go hunting also and I would neither become a hunter 210 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:32.880 nor a critic and nor this this I could enjoy all of that well my goodness you look at that and you 211 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:43.200 say what a wonderful life but why the question has to do with sin yeah and the whole idea is 212 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:48.800 that the reason that we do evil is only because of external forces of oppression now that of 213 00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:53.840 course comes into our culture with the whole oppression the whole division of humanity that we 214 00:24:53.840 --> 00:25:01.600 can't even get into but it's because of oppression remove the oppression yes remove the oppression 215 00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:07.200 and you don't even need the police no they can you can defund the police because after all 216 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:16.000 everyone is going to behave so beautifully because the only sin is coming at you yeah it is not 217 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:22.800 within you that's right and there was a man who preceded marks who said this that you are not 218 00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:28.800 responsible for your character because your character is shaped by forces outside of you so you 219 00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:37.360 have no responsibility for who you are so that's the Marxist doctrine of sin if there is such a 220 00:25:37.360 --> 00:25:47.280 thing as sin what does the Bible say the Bible says you have sin in the heart you know I was born 221 00:25:47.280 --> 00:25:54.400 a sinner right I was born with a bent toward evil and sin so it has an entirely different 222 00:25:55.040 --> 00:26:03.120 entirely different you know reaction to what has happened it's awesome our founding fathers 223 00:26:04.560 --> 00:26:08.960 again back well I'm gonna go back to our founding fathers founding fathers the pilgrims 224 00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:21.360 people want to argue about 1619 1619 it was horrible 1619 of course the pilgrims I'm talking about 225 00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:28.400 the ones that we relate to that made this nation are the 1620 pilgrims but the 1619 guys they 226 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:34.480 had been coming over since roughly about 1605 and they're going to Jamestown right they're 227 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:43.200 planting these these locations and it is recorded in in our historical writings that when people came 228 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:52.720 over they wanted equal distribution of all what that was raised the crops the whatever the fish caught 229 00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:59.200 and what happened was there was a bulk of them I think it's in the book the light and the glory I do 230 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:09.440 believe by David Emmanuel or it doesn't matter but it's well documented that by the time the 231 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:15.520 first winter had come the Jamestown people they were starting to starve to death in fact some 232 00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:21.120 did starve to death because there were so many not working and mooching off of those that were 233 00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:28.160 that it completely skewed the whole mess Jamestown was a disaster there wasn't success until 234 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:34.720 Plymouth and Plymouth is that Judeo Christian worldview value that authored of course the Mayflower 235 00:27:34.800 --> 00:27:41.120 Compact very different you've got the difference between Plymouth and Jamestown one built on faith 236 00:27:41.120 --> 00:27:45.440 and we're going to roll up our sleeves and we're going to build the country the other one is we're 237 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:51.920 going to start out all being equal and oh by the way some of us don't want to work and that Jamestown 238 00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:59.840 thing completely went belly up it was it was a mess it's never worked and one of the things that 239 00:27:59.840 --> 00:28:08.560 you notice in a capitalistic culture is that we create we're excited you don't see Apple computer 240 00:28:08.560 --> 00:28:15.040 in Tesla and you don't see Ford Motor Company and you don't see SpaceX and coming out of Russia 241 00:28:15.040 --> 00:28:19.840 you don't see it coming out of out of China but what's interesting to me is whatever we design 242 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:27.600 here in a in a free country like this it's telling to me that what takes us 10 years to develop 243 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:34.800 you notice China has it in two years they wind up stealing it or buying it well there are tens of 244 00:28:34.800 --> 00:28:40.400 thousands of students from all over the world that come to America to learn how to do it they 245 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:46.800 they don't invent their own stuff they take hours there you go now fact you raise so many issues 246 00:28:47.360 --> 00:28:55.520 one of them has to do with the founding of America and history did you notice that in communism 247 00:28:55.520 --> 00:29:01.280 in socialism one of the things that they do is they vilify our history they point to slavery 248 00:29:01.280 --> 00:29:07.120 and so forth which is horrible yeah yeah which is absolutely horrible of course but as if that's 249 00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:14.720 the only thing about America now this is actually based on the communist manifesto and other ideas 250 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:23.120 that say this that when you become a communist country the past has to be vilified of course it has 251 00:29:23.120 --> 00:29:32.080 to be vilified after all St. Petersburg became Lenin grad and then it became Stalin grad and various 252 00:29:32.080 --> 00:29:37.840 streets were renamed because it's actually the beginning and the dawning of a new era even as 253 00:29:37.840 --> 00:29:45.280 some of the socialist are talking about so what you have to do is to see that even history has to 254 00:29:45.280 --> 00:29:51.360 be vilified and changed here's an illustration so I use in the book okay you're walking along the 255 00:29:51.360 --> 00:29:57.680 street and behind you is a 16th century building it's a beautiful building but then you turn a 256 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:05.280 corner and you look behind and what do you see you see something else you've forgotten your history 257 00:30:05.280 --> 00:30:10.960 that's right you know that the man's name is not coming to me immediately but he was in a 258 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:17.200 he was an advisor's messenger to president Kennedy yeah want everyone to listen carefully 259 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:26.720 he says history is to a country as memory is to a person if a person loses his memory 260 00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:33.360 who is he he doesn't know who he is so he can be told he is whatever they want it to be 261 00:30:33.360 --> 00:30:37.920 having no knowledge of where you've come from right and that's one of the things that is being 262 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:44.640 taught today is the vilification of history or the interpretation of history all that to put 263 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:53.040 America in the worst possible light now Jack I want to emphasize why it is that what we're 264 00:30:53.040 --> 00:31:00.000 talking about is important it's very important I had a friend who gave a lecture on Christian 265 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:08.400 nationalism and he's a good guy good guy loves the Lord but he was saying in effect that America 266 00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:15.680 doesn't really matter that much because he ended by saying the great hope for the world is not 267 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:23.600 America it's Jesus Christ now of course that's where Jesus Christ we know I've given my life to 268 00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:30.320 that in your life to that of course is Jesus Christ yeah move but now with a heavy heart I have to 269 00:31:30.320 --> 00:31:38.400 say this that's true but there's no nation on earth that is given as much money to missions 270 00:31:39.520 --> 00:31:45.840 orphanages yep you know in the four or five most benevolent the most benevolent and if you go 271 00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:53.120 across the world as you have more often than I have every ministry in these socialist countries 272 00:31:53.120 --> 00:32:00.640 that is preaching the gospel is funded by American dollars and so where do people come when they 273 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:05.760 need money for these ministries they don't go to socialist countries they come to America so I want 274 00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:13.200 to ask you something we know that the Marxists the socialist has got to know that really I mean 275 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:17.600 they wouldn't admit it but they've got to know that right they know that when there's an earthquake 276 00:32:17.600 --> 00:32:24.320 in Thailand you and I pull out our checkbooks we're transferring money that's not that's not 277 00:32:24.320 --> 00:32:30.800 happening like you just said it in other countries that said peel peeling back the onion are going 278 00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:38.160 behind the veil it comes down to the spiritual realm doesn't it when we are generous we are acting 279 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:47.360 like Jesus right but the flesh is very greedy very self-centered very um survival of the fittest 280 00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:52.320 that's what I'm going to sorry sorry doctor ruin but I'm going to be taking your your portion 281 00:32:52.320 --> 00:32:58.480 because I'm stronger and so it's the stronger it's the strongest survives the spiritual side of 282 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:05.040 things is is it doesn't it play right into Satan's doctrines that we know that keep man imprisoned 283 00:33:05.120 --> 00:33:12.080 keep man from being creative keep man from having a family keep man from expanding 284 00:33:12.080 --> 00:33:18.320 because there's so much value that we get as humans making something with our own hands the 285 00:33:18.320 --> 00:33:25.360 crafts be it construction or a book or a message to it is or the repairing of the vehicle 286 00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:30.960 doesn't matter what it is we get profound satisfaction right and Satan I think would rather have 287 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.920 be in the corner with like we saw in Russia vodka given to you by the state by the way 288 00:33:38.800 --> 00:33:46.640 every Russian got their monthly allocation of vodka to keep you numb and dumb and dependent 289 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:53.440 upon the state rather than being in a free society whereby you would be dependent upon God 290 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:58.880 and rolling up your own sleeves to make like you know jack in Israel I read about a 291 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:04.320 completes that decided that they would run it according to socialist principles everybody gets paid 292 00:34:04.320 --> 00:34:11.680 the same etc well of course there were those who slept until 10 o'clock James town yeah those who 293 00:34:12.560 --> 00:34:18.320 of course they brought their dogs to lunch they left lights on because after all it doesn't matter 294 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:26.000 right matter and you know what the conclusion was we became a paradise for parasites 295 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:34.320 what a word yeah and and that's what socialism does is it brings about that now of course people 296 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:40.720 can say capitalism is greedy and all that we admit that but it's important to have guidelines 297 00:34:40.720 --> 00:34:46.400 and so forth and then I don't know if we should get into this but very quickly I was having lunch 298 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:54.800 with a somewhat well-known editor of a national magazine even though he's now retired and he looked 299 00:34:54.960 --> 00:35:00.080 at me and he said well the early church they were socialists you know they came together and they 300 00:35:00.080 --> 00:35:05.840 had all their goods in common in the book of acts well yeah he's reading but it was totally 301 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:11.920 voluntary you know and a nice and safira you could have kept the land the land was yours to do with 302 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:16.960 whatever you want it's because you lied about it because you lied about it yeah and so if Christians 303 00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:23.360 want to get together and share some of their some of their blessings let them but if you can yes 304 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:27.760 but if you keep reading Paul is the one going around taking up offerings to send back to the 305 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:34.880 Jerusalem church because they turned into a culture that was starving to death yeah but wow so here 306 00:35:35.520 --> 00:35:45.760 is maybe the bottom line I'm very concerned about America tears almost come to my eyes right now 307 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:50.880 when I think of what is happening what I'm happening in New York and how this could become a 308 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:56.640 template for all of America yes absolutely and so what we have to do is we have to pray and 309 00:35:56.640 --> 00:36:02.720 and I don't say that just because it's the right thing to say we have to seek God we have to 310 00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:10.320 evangelize to tell others the good news of the gospel but then we have to ask ourselves this question 311 00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:17.440 where are we willing to draw the line thank you what is our role what does faithfulness look like 312 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:24.640 and every person has to answer that for themselves because you know to the wife whose home to the 313 00:36:24.640 --> 00:36:30.960 homeschooler that'll be answered differently than the businessman who sent me a text and said can I 314 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:36.880 sign this document it had to do with you know transgender pronouns I have to use the pronoun 315 00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:44.480 required pronoun all of us have to answer at what point are we willing to do it and then there's a 316 00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:53.600 footnote again if I might humbly recognize we will not be silenced I have a chapter on how 317 00:36:53.600 --> 00:37:02.960 Islam is willing to team up with socialist yes and the reason is not because they agree on world 318 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:10.000 views but they have a common enemy Christianity and capitalism it's right and so what they are doing 319 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:16.560 is for now we can work together to bring about the destruction of that so to all those who are 320 00:37:16.560 --> 00:37:25.680 listening don't let this shake you because our faith is in God yeah we should take it as a badge 321 00:37:25.680 --> 00:37:31.440 of honor if we're going to suffer for Christ but at the same time let's not be deceived and think 322 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:37.360 oh there's a new sense of openness because of the assassination of Charlie Kirk there may be maybe 323 00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:45.120 but a backlash I believe I hope I'm wrong is it developing yes and we need to ask this and so the 324 00:37:45.120 --> 00:37:52.960 bottom line is this Jesus died for sinners we are all sinners our greatest problem is within us 325 00:37:52.960 --> 00:38:00.720 not outside of us outside of us there may be many injustices but the deepest part of us is this 326 00:38:00.720 --> 00:38:09.680 and we have to take much joy in the fact that our sins can be forgiven our future is totally 327 00:38:09.680 --> 00:38:16.720 secure and the gospel of Jesus Christ goes to the very core of who we are and brings about 328 00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:22.960 transformation so to those who are listening who've never savingly believed on Christ we urge you 329 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:30.720 to do that because in the midst of the storm what you really need is Jesus believing everything 330 00:38:30.720 --> 00:38:41.760 that you just said a green completely what would happen to a person if they did exactly what you 331 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:55.520 just said what would be their life lived in a post prayer to accept Christ repentance and leaning 332 00:38:55.520 --> 00:39:04.880 upon him accepting his forgiveness you have a new life I'm asking you this to set you up we've 333 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:13.120 not rehearsed this at all but what I want to get out of you is this did God does God save us 334 00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:21.120 to set us over here just so we can run out the clock in our pajamas so to speak and now that I'm 335 00:39:21.120 --> 00:39:29.120 saved I'm saved and or does he save us to not only like we said earlier the gospel that's secured 336 00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:33.760 you're secured you're you're there you're that's done in the meantime before you 337 00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:39.760 come to the end of your days how does this believer live out their discipleship 338 00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:47.120 in in the secular world in the day-to-day life what does it look like because I say this for 339 00:39:47.120 --> 00:39:53.360 example you mentioned New York New York most Americans don't know what I'm about to say 340 00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:01.360 I watch more international news than I watch American news very few Americans know 341 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:10.560 that when Mandani won the marital race in New York City New York City 24 years ago was attacked 342 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:20.080 by Muslim fundamentalist radicals jihadist the the actual person who Mandani says he is 343 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:28.240 24 years ago we were attacked we were attacked by that doctrine and now 344 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:37.120 that doctrine is in the top seat for that city he got in there by saying I will give you free stuff 345 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:43.280 I will erase all this but you owe we're all going to have everything the same 346 00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:48.720 and we're going to text to your point we're going to text all these corporations 347 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:54.880 within the city limits of New York so we can all have everything the same 348 00:40:56.640 --> 00:41:03.520 Islam will go to bed with Marxism Islam will go to bed with the lbgtq community absolutely 349 00:41:04.240 --> 00:41:14.240 but Satan is smart enough to know how stupid those people are because in history Islam cannot 350 00:41:14.240 --> 00:41:20.080 suffer a homosexual to live right they must be put to death but the homosexual community they 351 00:41:20.080 --> 00:41:25.840 don't know that so they think hey this new guy we're going to vote for him because he's not a 352 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:34.320 Christian he's a Muslim this is great so how does it Christian in New York City right now if you 353 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:40.800 were a Christian in New York City what do you do how do you live well I guess I have to say with 354 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:47.200 a smile I'm kind of glad I don't live there but here's the thing I while you're asking the question 355 00:41:47.200 --> 00:41:54.000 I was thinking of Colossians chapter 3 which I just read this morning and meditated on seek those 356 00:41:54.000 --> 00:42:00.160 things which are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God and then it says for when 357 00:42:00.160 --> 00:42:08.160 Christ will appear we will appear with him in glory can you imagine that that we will appear so 358 00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:15.600 what you do is when it comes to your values only one thing on your mind and that is eternity 359 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:26.720 and not time and ask yourself this question in a hundred years what will I wish I had done today 360 00:42:27.600 --> 00:42:34.480 what does faithfulness look like for me and that's I think where we have to go 361 00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:45.760 we have children we have grandchildren what what you and I say do right teach vote speak 362 00:42:47.600 --> 00:42:53.760 let's be honest you and I could go over here to LAX and fly to Hawaii and have a nice week 363 00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:59.600 we're not doing that we're fighting for the future of our children we hope Jesus comes back soon 364 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:05.200 but we fight like he's not going to come back for a hundred years you and I have lived our 365 00:43:05.200 --> 00:43:11.280 lives but now we have our kids and our grandkids to fight for we want them to live free we want them 366 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:20.080 and in that part of the responsibility I'll say stewardship of living in a republic is doing the right 367 00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:31.440 thing and holding elected officials to accountability to find out who my neighbor is because in my opinion 368 00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:42.320 America is heading down a path whereby we are taking our faith away from the big G in God and 369 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:49.920 putting it in the little G of government government is promising everything God said I'll do for you 370 00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:57.760 and we isn't it interesting that we that once God is dead in our conscience we stop tithing 371 00:43:58.560 --> 00:44:04.960 and we start paying more and more taxes we wind up tithing to the little G and believe it I don't 372 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:11.600 get me wrong we must pay our taxes that said if you're living to have the government pay your way 373 00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:17.600 you know that's that's a pretty sad way to live but as you just said fast forward 374 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:23.200 how is government going to help you on your deathbed how is government going to help you 375 00:44:24.560 --> 00:44:31.360 with your first step into eternity it ain't going to be there jack you've raised so many questions 376 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:38.320 that is difficult for me to answer but I'll say a couple of comments about a few of them first of all 377 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:46.880 regarding our children in a relay race passing the baton is the most dangerous time the baton can 378 00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:53.360 be dropped somebody can pick it up drop it and that's a very difficult time so you and I have to 379 00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:58.400 be thinking about our children and I know that I'm saying this to Christian parents don't throw 380 00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:05.760 your lambs to the wolves yes don't do that the second thing that you were saying has to do with the 381 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:13.120 whole issue of entitlement we recognize that it is the government's responsibility to help those 382 00:45:13.120 --> 00:45:19.760 who absolutely cannot help of course you know for various reasons there there may be people out 383 00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:26.880 there but I have to tell you the fraud the fraud much is unbelievable and socialism exacerbates 384 00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:32.560 and makes that even more and then what we have to do is we also have to look to the past to see 385 00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:39.840 those who are faithful and you know one of my interests is martyrdom where people were willing to 386 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:47.360 say I'm going to stay here now I have to tell you about the story of a woman I didn't intend to 387 00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:54.400 get into this but she was in prison for her faith she and her husband had been married just 388 00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:01.280 before she went to prison and in prison she discovered she was pregnant her husband was taken 389 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:10.640 out of prison and killed she in prison was allowed to give birth to the baby but what she did is 390 00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:19.920 she died for her faith and she wrote a letter to her little baby that she could not raise and I'll 391 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:26.480 tell you when I read that letter I cried I could not hold back the tears wow because here was a 392 00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:31.760 woman who is telling her precious little baby that she had to give up I hope some relative got a hold 393 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:40.800 of the child how much she loved her how much she wanted to care for her but at the end of the day 394 00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:47.680 Jesus was more precious and being faithful to the gospel was more important than even looking after 395 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:51.120 her now there are people who are going to listen who say no that should have been her first 396 00:46:51.120 --> 00:47:00.640 responsibility was the baby we can argue that point but think of the reward in heaven for people 397 00:47:00.640 --> 00:47:08.400 like this who said I'm going to be true to Jesus in the worst of circumstances and that I think is 398 00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:16.320 where we probably should end today it's been a long podcast asking people this question 399 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:23.840 how much love do you have for Christ that is greater than your love of sin that is greater than 400 00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:31.440 your love of self and how do we navigate this so that we end successfully perfectly perfectly 401 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:37.840 well said love for God it's not a five-step program you don't have to go to a 12-step recovery 402 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:45.360 place in Malibu love God most and all those things will begin to fade away he'll begin to lift them 403 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:51.120 from you friends we've been sitting with Dr. Irwin Lutzer and it please by everything this man 404 00:47:51.120 --> 00:47:59.600 has written I'm not exaggerating when I say that his ability to craft words and arguments and 405 00:47:59.600 --> 00:48:05.280 logic and reason simply they're found in the pages of the books that he has written and he has 406 00:48:05.600 --> 00:48:11.360 written many of them we're talking today a little bit about we will not be silenced and it's a 407 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:18.640 powerful book the Ford is written by Dr. David Jeremiah and just encourage you to do what I do 408 00:48:18.640 --> 00:48:24.880 I listen to him sometimes I text him and I tell them tell him I just listen to a sermon in the mornings 409 00:48:26.240 --> 00:48:30.080 I go to YouTube and I type in your name and it pops up 410 00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:37.360 Irwin Lutzer sermons and there's a zillion of them and I get my feeding in the morning 411 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:46.160 from you and I'm so grateful friends do the same and wherever you're at please find a new 412 00:48:46.160 --> 00:48:50.800 testament church I have to put it that way now these days a new testament church a church that 413 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:56.880 teaches the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation that does not shy away from the full council of God 414 00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:03.840 the Lord has not left you somewhere in a desert there is a group of believers somewhere where 415 00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:11.920 you're at in the world and pray he'll lead you to them but by all means the hour is late Christ 416 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:20.160 is coming we need to get ready and getting ready we do that by being disciples and we take his word 417 00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:26.320 and his love to every person that we possibly can so until next time God bless you 418 00:49:31.200 --> 00:49:35.600 this Jack Hibbs podcast as well as all the broadcast outreach opportunities are 419 00:49:35.600 --> 00:49:43.280 listener supported will you consider partnering with us through a special gift go to jackhibbs.com 420 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:46.480 to learn more and stay connected