WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.680 If you're picking businesses, the difference that he and I had is that his mentors always 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:07.600 went super, super big. They wanted to go change the world and whatnot. But what I don't think we see 3 00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:13.920 or appropriately bit risk or value is the graveyard full of people who went big and struck out. 4 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:18.640 The wealthiest people in the world see business as a game. This podcast, the game, is my attempt 5 00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:22.320 at documenting the lessons I've learned on my way to building acquisition.com into a billion dollar 6 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:25.840 portfolio. My hope is that you use the lessons to grow your business and maybe someday soon 7 00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:28.880 partner with us to get $200 million beyond. I hope you share and enjoy. 8 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:36.320 There are two big risks that exist in business. The first is the execution risk. The second is the 9 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:41.520 idea risk. Now you can maybe make an argument for a third being, you know, environmental risk, 10 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:46.560 regulatory risk, things like that. But I would say big picture is, does the idea fundamentally work? 11 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:51.520 You know, having strangers drive kids around in cars is going to be a really good idea. Uber, 12 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:57.680 or creating lockers for cats. Is that going to be a good idea? I don't know. Or am I going to be 13 00:00:57.680 --> 00:01:01.760 able to execute the idea itself? And if you don't know who I am, my name is Alex Ramuzzi. I own 14 00:01:01.760 --> 00:01:05.360 acquisition.com. It's a portfolio of companies that have over $100 million a year. I like talking 15 00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:10.160 about business stuff and hopefully making fewer people broke in the world makes me die happy. 16 00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:15.600 Okay, so I was having a really good conversation with a friend of mine who's a software entrepreneur. 17 00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:19.520 He's had three or four software companies. None of them have really hit. He's about the same age 18 00:01:19.520 --> 00:01:24.560 as me and he and I sit in very different financial positions at this point in our life. And we were 19 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:29.840 having a really in depth conversation around this topic, which is appropriately measuring risk. 20 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:35.280 And so one of the issues that I see with a lot of newer entrepreneurs is that they overestimate 21 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:41.840 the payoff for a risk and underestimate the cost number one. And second is they overestimate 22 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:46.560 the likelihood of success they're going to have and they underestimate the risk in terms of the 23 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.800 likelihood that they fail. And I think this is really interesting because he and I were discussing 24 00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:55.520 the first quote that I have. It's kind of it's in the intro of my book by Jeff basis. I'll read 25 00:01:55.520 --> 00:01:59.760 it to you right now. Outside returns often come from betting against conventional wisdom and 26 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:03.680 conventional wisdom is usually right. Given a 10% chance of a hundred times payoff, you should take 27 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:08.400 that bet every time. But you're still going to be wrong nine times out of 10. We all know that if 28 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:11.600 you swing for the fences, you're going to strike out a lot. But if you're also going to hit some 29 00:02:11.600 --> 00:02:15.680 home runs. The difference between baseball and business however is that baseball has a truncated 30 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:19.520 outcome distribution. When you swing, no matter how well you connect with the ball, the most 31 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.840 runs you can get is four. In business, every once in a while, when you step up to the plate, 32 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:27.840 you can score a thousand runs. This long tail distribution of returns, it's why it's important 33 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:34.240 to be bold. Big winners pay for so many experiments. Jeff basis. And so the thing is is that there are 34 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:38.800 two big costs when you're making these risks. One is you've got the money and things like that, 35 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:43.360 but I think the biggest cost is time. And so if you think about portfolio theory, which is, 36 00:02:43.440 --> 00:02:48.080 for example, like venture capital, VCs, though, let's say they take 50 companies on and they're 37 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:52.960 betting the fact that one of those 50 companies is going to, you know, 100X and pretty much carry 38 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:56.720 the return to the entire portfolio. And for the vast majority of the other ones, they either got 39 00:02:56.720 --> 00:03:02.480 a business or basically not really do anything spectacular. And so for the VC, for the venture 40 00:03:02.480 --> 00:03:06.000 capital, the investor, it makes sense to take this approach because they're going to get very good 41 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:14.000 returns using, you know, using this method. Whereas if you are one of the 49, you know, founders 42 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:18.240 who has pretty much all of the net worth investing this thing and it takes five years of your life 43 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:24.160 away to only fail, it can be harder to swallow. And so he and I have had very different careers 44 00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:29.840 in lives and it's because we value risk differently. Now he would say that he is not interested in 45 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:34.320 making money and he just wants to do something really big and really cool. I tend to be more money 46 00:03:34.320 --> 00:03:39.280 focused or money driven, whatever you want to say, because I think that the accumulation of money 47 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:43.120 will allow me to do really cool things later on in my life. And when I say later, I mean, like, 48 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:47.920 you know, give me 20, 30 years of doing this. And I think we can do that. Now, the reason that I want 49 00:03:47.920 --> 00:03:51.360 to bring up this topic is because picking the business that you're going to go after I think is a 50 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:54.960 very important question that you're going to ask yourself. And you have to understand that you're 51 00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:00.000 probably going to fail many times before you are successful. And one of the hardest questions in 52 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.600 entrepreneurship, this is also one of the things that come up in the conversation, is when do I push 53 00:04:03.600 --> 00:04:07.520 or when do I pivot, right? When do I keep pushing? When do I keep persevering on this idea that's 54 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:11.840 not quite working? And when do I pivot? And it's one of the hardest questions in entrepreneurship 55 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:18.400 because you don't know whether it's you or the idea. And that's what's hard because sometimes 56 00:04:18.400 --> 00:04:23.120 it's like how many great business ideas have the founders have abandoned six inches from gold, 57 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:26.480 where they just needed to push a little bit harder and they were going to have the breakthrough. 58 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.120 And I hesitate to talk about the subject because I think most people just don't know how to 59 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:34.800 push it all. And so, you know, I put that as a big caveat. Now, when we're talking about business 60 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:39.920 in general, I, and this is my difference from my friend, I prefer to only go after ideas that I 61 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:45.760 think have virtually no risk of not being ideas that people want, which then leaves only me as the 62 00:04:45.760 --> 00:04:51.680 variable, the execution risk that it can be done well, it can be well-businessed, right? And so 63 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.640 I think in a lot of ways, this is just Alex's two cents, most newer entrepreneurs I think would be 64 00:04:56.640 --> 00:05:03.520 better served going after boring businesses that have established needs, right? So people want 65 00:05:04.080 --> 00:05:07.600 to have, you know, businesses want more customers. People want to make more money. People want 66 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:12.800 higher paying jobs. People want to have skills that are valuable. People want, you know, to lose 67 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:17.840 weight. People want love. People want, you know, entertainment. Like these are all things that are 68 00:05:17.840 --> 00:05:22.640 not going to change over time. And so what that allows you to do is hone your skills at business 69 00:05:22.640 --> 00:05:27.360 because you know if it doesn't work, it's only you. It's only your fault if it doesn't work, 70 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:31.280 right? And so because the problem is that having the perspective from which to make a judgment on 71 00:05:31.280 --> 00:05:35.200 whether you have product market fit can be, I think, a much harder decision of when to push and 72 00:05:35.200 --> 00:05:42.800 when to pivot. Most of the nation real quick, if you are a business owner that has a big old 73 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:48.000 business and wants to get to a much bigger business, going to $50, $100,000 plus, we would love to 74 00:05:48.080 --> 00:05:52.320 talk to you. And if you like that, we would like to hear more about it. Go to acquisition.com 75 00:05:52.320 --> 00:05:56.720 and you can plan anywhere on the page and talk to one of our team and see if we can help you get there. 76 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:02.880 You know, as a total side note, because I think this is really interesting. I think there's 77 00:06:02.880 --> 00:06:08.000 three big questions that are really dichotomies that you have to manage as an entrepreneur, right? 78 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:12.560 One is one to push and one to pivot. The second is how much do I spend versus how much do I, 79 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.840 sorry, how much do I consume versus how much do I invest, right? Because you're going to be living 80 00:06:15.840 --> 00:06:21.280 your whole life. If you always forego the immediate satisfaction, you may reach the end of your 81 00:06:21.280 --> 00:06:25.120 life and never have enjoyed anything, right? So there's a little bit of a balance there that you 82 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:29.040 have to strike, right? And it probably shifts over time, but there still means that there's some 83 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.560 level of consumption even earlier on in your life. And at the same time, you also don't know if you're 84 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:36.320 going to live tomorrow, right? And that's where it gets really interesting. It's a personal question, 85 00:06:36.320 --> 00:06:41.120 right? And the third is kind of the balance between like how much do I, you know, delegate to other 86 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:45.520 people versus how much do I do, right? Because you got to do something and you can't delegate 87 00:06:45.520 --> 00:06:48.560 everything, right? Like, and so there's, there's balances here. And so today it's just about the 88 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:53.440 push and the pivot and idea risk versus execution risk. And so for the new entrepreneurs, 89 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.520 you probably suck at business. And that's okay. And that's because you're new, which is totally 90 00:06:57.520 --> 00:07:00.560 reasonable, totally acceptable. And of course, you should suck because it's hard and a lot of people 91 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.440 do it, right? And if you want to be in the top one percent, it's one percent of people. That 92 00:07:03.440 --> 00:07:06.560 means you have to beat 99 other people out of 100 in order to be the top one percent, which is 93 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:11.520 only 400,000 a year, right? Not only. It's a lot of money, right? And so the thing is is that 94 00:07:11.520 --> 00:07:14.560 Instagram makes everyone feel like if you're not making money out of your poor, which is not true. 95 00:07:15.200 --> 00:07:21.120 You can save 400,000 a year for not that long and have a lot of money, you know what I mean? And so 96 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:26.080 anyways, back to the point, if you're picking businesses, the difference that he and I had is that 97 00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:30.160 his mentors always went super, super big. They wanted to go change the world and whatnot. But what I 98 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:36.480 don't think we see or probably risk or value is the graveyard full of people who went big 99 00:07:36.640 --> 00:07:41.680 and struck out. And I think it's an interesting caveat to this. Jeff Bezos gives this example, 100 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:46.800 and I want to dive into it in a little bit more detail, is that let's zoom out for a second. Let's 101 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.480 eliminate Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Warren Buffett from the names that you have in your head. 102 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:56.480 If we were to think what would be required to be number one in the world at a thing, right? You'd 103 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.520 have to have the natural proclivity, right? Because if you're committing it to everybody, the people 104 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:04.960 who are going to have natural advantages based on genetic code upbringing, whatever are going to, 105 00:08:04.960 --> 00:08:07.840 they're going to, they're going to win more, right? So that'd be the first thing we'd want if we 106 00:08:07.840 --> 00:08:12.080 wanted to create this person who's going to be likely to win. Number two is they'd have to have 107 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:17.120 a tremendous amount of skill, right? So they'd have the natural proclivity, the, the nurture that 108 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.960 created an environment where they had work ethic to pursue the skill, right? So they have to be very, 109 00:08:20.960 --> 00:08:26.320 very good. And then third, they'd have to be lucky, right? Because if you think about a whole 110 00:08:26.320 --> 00:08:30.800 bunch of people, like imagine everybody who's born really, you know, has his natural tendencies or 111 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:35.120 proclivities towards these activities, right? And then does a ton of it in terms of volume. So they 112 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:42.240 get very good. What then separates them? Luck, right? The people at the very, very, very top have all 113 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:48.000 of the things aligned, comma, and luck. And so it's interesting that he has this quote around risk 114 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.800 because one of the things that's unique about Bezos and even Elon, right? And this is probably 115 00:08:53.680 --> 00:08:58.320 a further discussion on business strategy overall is that they've had virtually limitless access 116 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:05.920 to capital, right? Like as in they can basically raise money endlessly to fund these risks, right? 117 00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:11.360 And so the equation that he said, which is a matchy go to Vegas casino, there's a, there's a table 118 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.400 that has a 10% chance of winning, but you get a hundred times payout when you do. If you can play 119 00:09:16.400 --> 00:09:21.600 the game on an unlimited time horizon, then you absolutely should just play it as many times 120 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:27.040 as smoothly possible. But most of us do not have unlimited spins, right? And that's where this gets 121 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:32.320 more interesting. And so if you were to imagine a dollar as a year of life, okay? 122 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.760 that you have in your entrepreneurial career. And let's say to build something really epic would take 123 00:09:37.760 --> 00:09:42.240 10 years. And that's like minimum, you know what I mean? Like Facebook was 20 is 20 years old now, 124 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:46.160 right? Which is kind of insane to think about. I think is 20 years old. Is it 20 years old? I feel 125 00:09:46.160 --> 00:09:51.120 like it's 20 years old. It's pretty old. 15 years old. It's pretty old, right? Let's just say 15, 126 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:56.960 right? If you want to build something epic, which means and how long does it take to test the idea 127 00:09:57.280 --> 00:10:01.200 before moving on, right? That's another big question. Like how long does it take to really 128 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:06.080 give it your all on a thing? And so we were having the discussion and he said, I think we should say 129 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:14.000 $35 would be, you know, you have 35 years of life. And how long do we chunk? And we agreed on 130 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:18.480 five years as a mid ground because it takes 15 to really see something all the way through. 131 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.320 If we said 15 was the chunk, that didn't seem realistic because it doesn't take you 15 years 132 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:27.120 to find out something doesn't work, right? And so it's that bad. So we said five was the number. 133 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:32.240 You can come up with your own, right? And so a more realistic way to see this, right? It would be, 134 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:38.400 you know, you've got a one out of 10 shot at 100 times payout, but the minimum bet is five. 135 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:44.320 And you've got 35 bucks. Interesting. The conversation changes. Now let's say that you're now 15 136 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:47.840 years in. Let's see, you bet three times, you lost all three times, which would be reasonable. That 137 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:51.520 would be expected that you lose three times. You could even lose all three of the first times. 138 00:10:51.520 --> 00:10:57.520 But now you're 15 years in and you have still no money. Huh? How do you feel about yourself? 139 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:03.120 How do you feel about your skill? What's your reputation? All these things kind of weigh in. You know, 140 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:06.480 what I mean? And this is why I think this is a really interesting discussion. And so I will give 141 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:10.320 you my two cents because he and I disagree on these things because I have the perspective that 142 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:14.880 all the people that I know are the wealthiest in the world eliminate risk. So that's what they do. 143 00:11:14.880 --> 00:11:20.400 They control risk. They virtually eliminated. They figure out ways to play the game in new ways 144 00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:27.600 where they cannot lose. Right? I'll give you an example. If the rock came out with a, I'm trying 145 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.880 to think of something he hasn't come out with because he come out with a parallel and whatever. Let's 146 00:11:30.880 --> 00:11:35.840 see him out with, let's see him out of the book. Right? Let's say, let's say the rock writes a book. 147 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:40.240 Maybe he already has written a book. I don't know. And he writes a book. What is the what what's the 148 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:47.680 likelihood? That it's not a best seller. Virtually zero. Right? It's virtually zero. So he's 149 00:11:47.680 --> 00:11:50.880 basically limited the risk because he controls another variable, which is a massive audience. Right? 150 00:11:50.880 --> 00:11:55.040 And you can build that deliberately. And so when we think about these things, the richest people 151 00:11:55.040 --> 00:12:00.000 that I know control risk and only play games where if they wait, they win. And my friend has not 152 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.840 taken that approach. And he's like, Hey, I just want to go big or go home. And the thing is that 153 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:09.200 he's gone home more than he's gone big. And so I, I will give you Alex's two cents and you can 154 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:14.160 choose to do what you want with it. And I'll just explain my views on risk. I tend to go with the 155 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:23.760 highest likelihood bet. And I tend to, if I have two bets, let's say one where I have a 10x payoff 156 00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:29.360 for a one out of two shots, right? Which would be a two to one risk adjust to return. All right? If you 157 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:34.960 curious, you just multiply the payoff by the by the likelihood. Or is that's a five X? Sorry, 158 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:38.640 I've messed that up. But you get the idea. You multiply the payoff by the percentage likelihood. 159 00:12:38.640 --> 00:12:43.920 And if I had an equivalent risk adjust to return another one, but I had a higher likelihood of 160 00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:49.120 achieving it. So if I had a five X that I or a six X that I thought I had a four out of five 161 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:54.080 chance of getting versus a 10x that I had on the math on it, but whatever, a one out of two shot 162 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:59.920 of getting, I would pick the the four out of five shot that had a lower upside. That's me. 163 00:13:00.640 --> 00:13:05.040 And I think part of that is because the games that are set up that way are usually going to be 164 00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:09.920 just execution risk businesses. And I feel like I can I can pay that down in other ways, right? 165 00:13:09.920 --> 00:13:14.720 I can pay down that risk so I can virtually nothing's guaranteed, but I can virtually 166 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:20.640 guarantee the outcome. And so my goal is to string as many of these virtually guaranteed 167 00:13:20.640 --> 00:13:26.400 upsides in my favor for a long enough period of time that I let compounding work. 168 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:33.040 Because compounding on a long enough time horizon creates the outsides return. And so the idea 169 00:13:33.040 --> 00:13:39.120 is how can I play how can I get as many W's in a row and as few L's as possible for a long enough 170 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:46.400 time horizon so that I create the outsides return comma and get to live a pretty cool and stress-free 171 00:13:46.400 --> 00:13:51.440 or not stress-free, but like a pretty cool life along the way. Right now, if we played the game 172 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:55.360 the way that we talked about earlier where you have the 35 years that you can bet and your three bets 173 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:00.800 in your 15 years in and you don't have anything, that can be pretty hard. Hard on your ego, 174 00:14:00.800 --> 00:14:04.560 hard on your reputation, maybe you learn bad habit, like there's a lot of things because you 175 00:14:04.560 --> 00:14:08.800 won't know, especially if there's an idea risk that's at hand, like is it me or was it the idea? 176 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:14.800 Right? And so for that reason, I'm in favor of the significantly lower risk and he and I were 177 00:14:14.800 --> 00:14:17.920 talking back and forth, he's like, you know what I've observed from you is that you just 178 00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:23.200 you go for the sure thing and that's 100% what I do. That is I've always gone for the sure thing. 179 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:29.280 And then I just continue to try and trade up the upside of my sure things, right? So the first 180 00:14:29.280 --> 00:14:34.640 sure thing you can have is a very high-paying income job. And then the next sure thing would be like, 181 00:14:34.640 --> 00:14:39.200 if I were to quit a job, I would make sure that I had more income from my side hustle probably, 182 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.880 where I believed it would be very reasonable for me to get that within a very short period of time. 183 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:47.920 So then I would make maybe that switch and then I would look at all the opportunities that 184 00:14:47.920 --> 00:14:52.720 existed and think, okay, what are these things on a risk-adjusted basis? And this is again, 185 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:58.560 where people make errors, just assume you have to take the negative assumptions and I would say like the 186 00:14:58.560 --> 00:15:04.640 the better I get at this at thinking this way that the more I continue to make, which is I'm going 187 00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:10.720 to assume everything goes wrong, what then do I make, right? And so if you can just say like 188 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:15.280 assuming none of the good things that you think are reasonable are going to happen happen, 189 00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:20.560 can you still win? And I think when you think that way, what happens is you give yourself room to be 190 00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:25.600 pleasantly surprised and exceed expectations. But what happens is when you set up the game that way 191 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:30.640 where you're like, I'm assuming these are the five things that I think will happen and will go 192 00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:36.080 right, but I'm assuming none of them are going to go right, do I still win? And if you can still win, 193 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:40.880 then that is an opportunity to worth pursuing in my opinion. And so that's some, that has been the 194 00:15:40.880 --> 00:15:46.640 approach that I have taken, which is how can I virtually eliminate the execution risk, a limited 195 00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:52.000 idea risk by only going after things that people already know want, and then how can I stack the 196 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:55.840 chips in my favor like the rock, where if I want to write a book, I want to make sure it's a best 197 00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:01.440 seller no matter what, right? How do I do that? And then think about all the things that can go wrong, 198 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.280 assume they go wrong, and then think what would I do in order to still succeed even with all these 199 00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:10.880 things going wrong? And then I think when you take those actions, you may not hit the 1000X return, 200 00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:17.680 but let's paint a different game that you could play. So let's say you could play this, there's 201 00:16:17.680 --> 00:16:21.440 two games. One was the one that Jeff Bezos outlined, right? Which you got, you know, one at a 202 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:28.880 10 shot at getting 100 times payoff. The game that I prefer to play is how can I get a 3X payoff 203 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:36.800 with a 95% chance of certainty? And I still have the same 35, right? Minimum bet. Well, I'll bet 5 204 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:46.160 and get my 3, and then I'll bet my 15, and I'll be at 45, and then I'll bet my 45, and I'll be at 205 00:16:46.160 --> 00:16:51.760 up. There we go. I'm already at 120, or whatever. So I already got my 100 times payoff by thinking 206 00:16:51.760 --> 00:16:56.720 about it from a risk adjusted basis. Now it's not going to be sexy. It's not. But if you double or 207 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:02.800 triple or 5X things enough times, you get to the 100X very quickly, and you can do it with limited 208 00:17:02.800 --> 00:17:08.480 downside, knowing that you've controlled for the idea risk and have only focused on the execution 209 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:14.720 risk, which is yourself. And so that's how I've thought about risk with opportunity that I thought 210 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.960 I would share with you because it was a really cool conversation. And I hope that you guys, I hope 211 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:25.360 it gave you some light in terms of at least how I think of things, and maybe some of those ideas 212 00:17:25.360 --> 00:17:30.320 could serve you. So, most of the nation love you guys. I don't deserve you, but I love you 213 00:17:30.320 --> 00:17:35.760 for being as awesome as you are. Leave questions in the comments for future vids that really help 214 00:17:35.760 --> 00:17:46.240 for me, and I'll see you in the next one. Bye!