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You have to love small business ownership, and it has to be about really being a love of the

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product and the experience. It's just like, you know, we have this kind of thing with a lot of

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the gyms is once someone understands how to run a seven figure or multi seven figure gym,

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you now have the skills that to run a $10 million other business.

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Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers, how to make more

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per customer and how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons we have learned

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along the way. I hope you enjoy and subscribe. I wonder if we can zoom into the sales thing

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a little bit, because I think selling is a massive black box for a lot of people. And even for

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me, like, when I first started actually selling stuff, I've been doing YouTube for five years,

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but, you know, I don't feel like I was selling anything for the first three, because it was all

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like sponsorships and you kind of, and then sort of two years ago, when I had an idea for like a

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course that teaches people how to be YouTubers, I came up against so much like internal,

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like mental friction around the idea of selling and feeling weird about it and like,

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then realized sales is a thing. So I wonder what was your experience sort of on the ground in the

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gym? How did you could learn how to sell? Yeah, I hated everything in the sales, and all the

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the side story that was that when I quit my job, my dad's buddy was a, or my dad's financial

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company, his investor dude, right? The guy who made just this money was like, dude, you should just

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come work for me. He's like, you can sell. And I was like, me? I was like, I'm an academic.

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All right. I'm a I'm a cerebral thinker. I'm a management consultant. Like I am known for,

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you know, I'm not a salesman. Like that was my thing. And so I was like, I was, I thought it was

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beneath me. I really did. And so anyways, I got the job. I did the interviews, got the job,

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and I ultimately like, they told me what it was. And it was like, here's the phone, here's names

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bang. And I was like, oh, I don't want to do that. So then I started my gym, and I realized

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that I had to fake $5,000 a month. And then it was like the first day and I was like, oh,

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fuck, how do I get people to give me money? And I was like, oh, sales. And so it was a it was a

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forcing function. So I had gone to a weekend workshop that I spent $3,000, which was a tremendous

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amount of money for me at the time to go learn how to to run Facebook ads. It's 2013.

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So I learned how to run Facebook ads in that weekend. And I ran Facebook ads for my gym. And

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that was when people came in. I signed up 27 people the first two weeks. I charged 300 bucks

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ahead. I think I spent a thousand bucks on ads. So I made, you know, spend a thousand,

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made 8700 or whatever it was. And that was that was how I that's how I paid my first once

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run. And my selling was just literally I had an empty gym with no equipment. It was a little

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turf and a table. And they were like, are you gonna be here? It's just like a scam. I was like, no.

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And people just believe me. I was like, I promise I will do everything to get you in the best shape

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ever. And they were like, are you sure? Like I'd have some people come back like two days later,

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like make sure I was still there in the two week period. And I also didn't understand a lot of

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stuff. Like I thought I had to open as fast as possible, because I thought that opening meant

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that I would make money when really I should have had a really long presale just collected cash

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the whole time. I didn't know any of that stuff worked. So I just tried to open as fast as I could.

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That was it. So I had my first 27 clients. And I and I taught all those sessions. So I was doing

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six sessions a day. And then I would run ads. I'd have sales appointments. Then I'd clean the gym.

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And then I would do all my billing at night. And then worked the league. It was the hardest I've ever

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worked time wise. I've still to the state never worked that hard. It was. Okay. Let's zoom in

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to some of these. So you had the idea of like, I want to start a gym. You worked in a gym for free

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for a minimum wage for a while. So you understand how a gym works. And then where you just like

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roaming around looking for a warehouse that you could convert into a gym. Yeah. And then you signed

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a lease for $5,000 a month. And you're like, all right, cool. I now have a box. I need to put some

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gym equipment in there. So you put some gym equipment in there. You take a Facebook ad workshop

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over the weekend. You spend three grand on it. And that helps you run ads in your local area that says,

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hey, by the way, new gym opening. Yeah. Something or other. And then people walking through the door.

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And then what happens when people walking through the door? Do you just say, hey, this is the gym.

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Can you give me your money or how? I had an offer. I had an offer, which was a six week challenge.

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I said, if you lose, because it was similar to my whole maturity thing where I wanted people to

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like have skin in the game. So it was, uh, if you lose 20 pounds, six weeks, I'll give you your

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money back. So people would bet it was 300 bucks. I would train it for six weeks. And if I,

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if they lost 20 pounds, I give them their money back. So I was a check. So are you relying on then

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people not completing it to make money or? No, the real real is there. Yeah. So, so you've got,

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you've got three buckets, right? You got people who don't hit it, right? Which is actually not the

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bucket you want people in because then they're not happy. Um, the second bucket is people who hit it

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and then have more weight to lose or wants to keep working out because they just started this habit

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and want to keep going, which is the vast majority of it. I think we had just under an hand for

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some success rate. And then the third bucket is people who want to lose the weight and then say,

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I'll take my money, please, right? And the sale is actually very easy. I mean, you're just like, hey,

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do you think that working out six weeks and then going back and now working out is, uh,

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is going to be a good long term solution? No. Okay. Well, why don't I just take your 300 bucks? I'll

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credit towards the next year, staying at the gym because now you've started this habit. You don't

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want to lose it when you have the momentum. And they say, sure, cool. And I had people commit to the

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year before they even finish the challenge halfway through. I'd be like, you like everything,

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everything cool. You're 10 pounds down. Awesome. You halfway there. So, I mean, how much weight do

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you want to lose? Because I promise you, once you're 10 pounds lighter than you are now, you're still

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going to want to look different. Like, you're not going to be perfect. I've yet to meet somebody

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as a perfect body. You're still going to have stuff you want to work on, right? They're like, yeah,

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of course, I'm like, okay. So, the question is, do you want to do it on your own? Because that's

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what you were doing before this. And that wasn't working. Or do you want to do it with me?

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They're like, I want to do it with you. And I'm like, cool. I'll take the money. I'll credit it

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for it. So you want, congratulations. High five. Big hug. You want it. You get it because the

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point of the challenge is not for you to actually lose the weight is for you to understand this

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a lifelong process. Not six weeks. That was it. That was the whole process. How did you do the

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transformations? Like, how do people lose 10 to 20 pounds in six weeks? It's all food.

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Okay. So you're giving them meal plans? So what? Yeah. I would give them meal plans, grocery

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loose, free preparation instructions, eating out guides. The whole thing. I'd give them a whole

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custom thing. And then they'd work out at the gym originally. It was five days a week. And then

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I switched to three days a week. And so that's your offer. So the offer isn't like a monthly gym

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membership. It's just like, hey, get into the weight loss challenge. You do the thing. And then

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you're signing up people as they walk through the door. Yeah. And what happened is I let and I

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still do like this in terms of businesses in general. I do like having defined and programs

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on the front end because it gives a very specific outcome for someone on a specific timeline.

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And what it really becomes is your onboarding process. So you can typically charge more

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for a one time expense, usually three or four times more than you can on a recurring basis.

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And so what that affords you is the ability to liquidate acquisition costs more easily.

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And so it's like if I can charge four times more for the first six weeks of service with somebody,

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I should do that because it costs me more A to onboard someone B to acquire them. And so I

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should make more money in that first period of time. It makes sense. And so structuring business

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models that way is I've almost done that in every business I have got it. Did you feel weird

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about selling initially? No, I was begging for money. I needed the money. I got over it very

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quickly. I mean, it was just like I had this ethical. I had this like I'm superior. I'm not going

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to lower myself to selling. And then I was like, Oh, shit, I'm going to lose all the money I have.

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And so I didn't even know with sales. I just said like, I will help you. I promise.

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Yeah, please.

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You know, I mean, like I didn't know what I was doing. But the thing is I, you know, I'd done

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4,000 sales consults before I ever consumed a piece of sales training.

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So like a lot of the stuff I got I learned most of these things I've learned through just doing it.

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And just on the on the notes. So you paid $3,000 for a Facebook ads weekend workshop heat type thing.

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These days, so where sort of 10 years on from that, do you think there's value in people paying

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for something like that? Or can everything just be learned on YouTube? And there's no point in

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paying for a thing. Yeah, I think things can get you learned on YouTube. I think what you pay for

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is speed. So you pay for speed. You pay for trouble troubleshooting. You pay for somebody else who's

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already done it and not fucked up as many times as you're about to to get you there faster. Like,

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I remember most of the I've paid for tons of 101 stuff. So I had a guy who had a course,

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this is later. This will be two, three years later. I didn't I knew enough to make, you know,

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to get ads going, but like I really, I wasn't like a genius. I just knew enough to get leads so I

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could sell them. But a few years later, I wanted to get more sophisticated. I wanted to learn how to

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retarget. I didn't know any of that stuff. And so I paid a guy who had a course. He said, I don't do

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one-on-one. I only do courses. I don't sell my time. And I was like, it's America. Everyone sells

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their time. Just tell me what the price is. Went back and forth and find it was like 750 an hour.

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And I was like, done. Cool. And I think I did eight sessions with them. So it cost me like 5,600 bucks.

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And because I didn't want to just learn how to run ads, I want to learn how he would think

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through running my ads. And so the deal was he would get on. And then I would be like, this is

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all the stuff from last week. This is what I have. This is what I'm thinking of doing. What

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why is it wrong or what would you? And then he, I did all the clicking of the buttons and he would

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tell me why he would think about things in different ways. And so that was how I learned how to,

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and it only took me like eight sessions. So I was like, I like, I even have to go through a course.

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I took eight hours and I, and I learned the scale probably by the sixth time. I was like, I'm good.

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And I just did two more to make sure that nothing happened. Yeah. And now you've leveled up your

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baseline for how much money you can earn by having told with having this. I spent $5,600, $5,600.

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If I wanted to go run ads for gyms, if that was all I wanted to do and have no employees,

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I could make 10 to 20 grand a month easily. If that's all I wanted to do. So like there's,

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you know, I mean, like you just keeps adding to your skill set and stacking on top. Now I also

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knew how to sell there. So you know, you stack those two skills together. All of a sudden, I'm 100,000

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skill, right? So they just keep multiplying and multiplying and multiplying. Nice. Okay. So how

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would are you at this point when you just start your gym and you've signed this 5,000 a month? Please.

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23. Down. Sounds crazy. Okay. Yeah. And so you said that was the riskiest thing, but you've

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ever liked what was going through your mind at the time if you can remember for like that because

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that's a pretty big big decision. Not much, not much, honestly. It was ignorance. Like it was,

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it was, it was, it was, I mean, I got lucky. You know what I mean? I got lucky that I didn't know

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what I didn't know. I probably wouldn't have advised myself to do that now. But I was fortunate

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that I by chance went to a workshop for I was a marketing workshop. I didn't even know Facebook

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ads was even advertised as the thing is not even knew what they were. They didn't even knew

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Facebook ads were a thing yet. And so I showed up. They're like, oh, there's these things you can

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run on it. And I didn't, I didn't use Facebook. I had one, but I didn't like, I was like active on

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it. I was like very like productive mindset. Like, I don't use social media. Like I was very

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big on that whole thing. But he was like, oh, we can run ads on this. So I learned, and it was two

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weeks before my gym opened. If I had not had that, the plan going into the gym was the guy who I,

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I apprenticed under, he just ran group ons. And that was how he got, so that was my whole plant.

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I was like, I'll just run a group on and I'll just get people in the gym from that. I'll convert

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that was his whole business model. That was what I was sold on. And then I ran a group on two.

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And I get anybody. No one came in. And I ran the same group on because I was in the most

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competitive part of Southern California. I was in Huntington Beach. I was in Orange County.

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There's a hundred fucking gyms that are running group ons. And so he had a more established

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business. He'd been doing it for 20 years. Like he had, you know, so when he ran a group on

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people all about it, every every every month he was getting like 120 people a month coming in

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for group ons. So it was free customer acquisition. It was free. He was getting paid to get these

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people in the door. I didn't have any of that. And so I buy chance. Went to a workshop two weeks

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before it. And that is like, honestly, it's the only reason. I mean, who knows? I might have figured

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I probably would have tried to figure out another way, but it would have been tough.

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You said that quitting your job felt like the riskiest thing. Yeah. What did that feel like?

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Because at that point, you were making like four K a month off the personal training you

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stuff when you. So why did you feel particularly risky? But it didn't feel it didn't feel regular.

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It didn't feel consistent. I was like, this is one time. I don't know how long this is going to

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last. You know, I mean, like it didn't feel like a regular thing. But it wasn't even that because

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that would have been a math decision, which at the time, it was not a math decision. It was an

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emotional decision, which for me was, I'm leaving the path that I've spent the last, however,

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my basically my entire life leading towards, which is management consulting, business school,

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like the whole thing. Yeah. And then, you know, middle eastern father, same deal.

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Yeah. You know, he was like, this is a terrible idea. I have strongly disapproved of this.

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And we didn't talk for a while. You know what I mean? Because he's like just throwing it all away.

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So that was very tough for me. It was that it was just that. And I mean, at the end of the day,

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like my my final decision came down to, I mean, I give you the risk things, which is like,

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I'll have a good story like blah, blah, blah, blah. But I was I was not really willing to let

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that be the story, because I just didn't want them to be right. And so I was just going to do

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anything to not make him have that I told you so moment. I just like, I was going to I was going

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to fucking die. I just wasn't going to do it. And so the final decision came down to a point

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where I was so miserable at the job that I actually really didn't like the job. Like I was fortunate.

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I think if I had liked my job, I don't know if I'd even be an entrepreneur. I just really hated

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the job I was in. And so I just liked the position, whatever, at least that my day to day,

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enough that I said, I would either have to die to him or die to myself. And I felt dead inside

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at the time. And so I was like, I don't want to continue life living this way. I would rather

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accept myself and have him reject me than me reject myself and have his approval. And that was

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ultimately the decision that that allowed me to do it. Now, I still pussy about it. And I drew

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half way across the country before I called and told him because I didn't want him to be able to

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like tell me to come over to convince me that I could come back because he did he was like,

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come over for lunch. We'll talk about it because he would always just like, hey, I sure you want to

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we'll talk about over lunch. You know what I mean? Then you would always talk me off the

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cliff off the edge. And I was like, no, I'm going to hire. I was like, I'm going. He's like,

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what about your condo? And I was like, it's there. He's like, well, what are you going to do? I was

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like, I'll sell it. He's like, well, you're not going to sell it. I'm going to have to do with it.

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I was like, I figured out, you know, I was like, I'm going though. I'm not coming back.

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Tom. How's your relationship with your dad today? We're good. We're good. I mean, he's

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he's proud of me now and he's happy about all that stuff. So I mean, he's got plenty to be proud of

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in terms of material success. So you can rest easy on that. Yeah, I had a similar. I think when I

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took the decision to leave medicine after two years of working, you know, at that point,

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my YouTube channel, my YouTube channel is making like way more than I ever would as a doctor,

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but it's still didn't feel like a mathematical decision. It was very much an emotional thing.

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A whole Asian family like medicine is like the pinnacle of all of the things like ten years of

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cost, et cetera, et cetera. And what it took, weirdly, was I was on Lewis Hose's podcast.

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Yeah. I told him this story. And he was, he just like sort of talked me out of it, which is

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bloody hell. I've never considered it in such stark terms before. And that was what made the

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decision to be like, you know what? Let's say goodbye to medicine at least for a while and see what

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happens. Yeah. It's only for a while. And I can always go back to it. The thing is once you,

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I mean, you have an MD, you can do it. I mean, you always go back to it. Yeah. Okay. So we at this

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point, you are sort of in your early 20s, you've got your gym, you're paying five came on,

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then you're getting people coming in through through the door to do your six week transformation

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program and you're upselling them on the longer term thing, nothing after the fact. What happens

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next in the story? The gym starts to be successful. It grows 5,000 dollars a month for the first seven

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months. It goes up to 35,000 dollars a month by week by month nine. I had the whole gym outsourced,

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so I was just managing it by month 15. I took the profit from that gym to my second gym,

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I launched that one, profitably. Now this one I learned a lot at that point, so I pre-launched

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it at full capacity, did it the right way. Then I opened location three, four and five,

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and then using the same concept, then I went and I felt like I was stagnating. I felt like I didn't

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know what to do next. I joined an internet mastermind and they were like, if you're really this good

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at business, you shouldn't be owning gyms. You should be like teaching people how you fill your gyms

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up so fast. Then I transitioned to the turnkey like I fly out and do the thing which I make a

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hundred grand a month on with no employees. I was like, this is cool, so I did that for a year-ish,

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and then there's a series of a million series of unfortunate events that happens during this

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period of time, lose all the money like twice. I sell the gyms, I go all in on the new concepts,

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we switch from doing the turnkey system to doing a licensing model, and then that was 2017,

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and that's when everything just took off like a rocket.

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So let's say someone's listening to this and they're into fitness and they're thinking,

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you know what? I'd like to own a gym. Is it something you'd recommend? Can you make any money

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owning a gym these days? What's the deal with that? You can't make money owning a gym if you love,

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you have to love small business ownership, and it has to be about really being a love of the

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product and the experience. It's just like, you know, what we have this kind of thing with a lot

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of the gyms is once someone understands how to run a seven-figure multi-seven-figure gym,

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you now have the skills that to run a $10 million other business. It's just a limited opportunity

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vehicle. It's a great vehicle to learn how to do everything because you have to do everything in

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a gym, and I think some of the best entrepreneurs are the best salespeople, especially learn how to

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sell in fitness because you get so many reps. You talk to 10, 20 people a day, just rep after rep,

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so you get very good at that, and you have to deal with people because it's an all-service business,

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so you have a lot of headcount for very low revenue. Like there's lots of things that are very

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good to learn. When I had the same headcount with a turnkey sales model, I had a 30 employees,

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and I was making four times the revenue, you know what I mean? And then when I went from there to

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the licensing model, I went from eight employees to like 30 employees that just like that first year,

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and we did like seven million, and then the next year we did 26, you know, it was just like

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it was just a huge growth, so it was just more leverage. What does turnkey mean? They didn't have

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to do anything. I would fly out, we do the marketing, we do that, we'd spend the money, we'd work

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to leads, we did the sales. Like they didn't do it if they do anything. I just hand them customers.

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You were confident enough in your ability to get customers and convert them to things that they

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were just absolutely signing up for this, but like hell yes, you can transform my gym.

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Yeah, they didn't have to pay me anything. They didn't have to pay me anything. I just took

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a hundred percent of the cash I collected. Okay. So then what are they getting out of it? Oh,

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they're getting the recurring revenue. Yeah. Levels of wealth. So you are very open about kind of

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net worth and money and stuff, and I just love the way you talk about it in a such a matter of

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fact way. One thing that I've been curious about is like what are the levels of wealth out beyond

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which like you get significant diminishing returns. People say 75 came is the peak happiness,

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but like clearly there are people that 300K is better than 75K, a million is better than 300K.

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Like have you got in mind a rough sort of ladder of level of wealth unlocks certain things?

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Yeah, I think there's like the I don't have to worry about any basic needs level.

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And then there's the I don't have to worry about discretionary spending level within reason.

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You know what I mean? Like I can get I can go out for training so I can go to a fancy restaurant

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and it's not gonna you know affect me. I can buy appetizers and not just buy you know the cheapest

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thing on the menu with no appetizers, no alcohol and call that the dinner. So the lay list spends

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a lot more money than I do because we just have different but that being said I spend money on

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other stuff. So like I spend a lot of money only on information. It's all I spend my money on.

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It's just information access like that's all I spend my money on. And that's that is expensive.

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You know what I mean? She offered one guy 350 grand for an hour so I could just learn from

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you know what I mean? Just for context. So like we'll spend whatever it takes to learn anything.

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Yeah, but like it's always been the highest return for me. So for me it's just and I like sure

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let's go. You know what I mean? Like I just I've made so many every every penny I've made has come

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from knowledge. And if I can buy someone else's 10 years and say if I can save a year of my life

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for 350 grand, why would I not spend that? You know what I mean? So we've got needs,

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we've got discretionary spending where you're not worried about appetizers and stuff.

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Yeah, and then you have what I would consider like luxury wealth, which is probably like,

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you know 100 grand a month, but it all depends on what you're willing to save. And so like

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Layland, I have always lived on less than 10% of what we make. So whatever we make it's 10% of

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that is what we're kind of willing to spend that. I don't even think we spend that now.

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We've probably spent about 5% of what we make. Just a lot of money, but it's not a lot relative

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because we're both actually pretty riskabers. But we're not a logical because some people I know

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there's some people in the YouTube space, I was having a conversation with her, you know,

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Clarenate figures and are like splitting entrees at dinner. I mean, dude, like we literally made

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more money than this dinner cost while sitting here. You know what I mean? Like I was having a

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conversation with my father in law and he offered to pay for lunch or something. And I was like,

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while we have waited in line, I have made more money than this lunch costs. Let me cover lunch.

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I don't care. So it really depends on your savings versus spending percentage that you're comfortable

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with. So that's the big multiplier on those levels. But I think those are the three levels. Then

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it just depends on what that percentage is for you. So if you're a five to one person I want to

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make, I want to save 80% spend 20, then your needs, when you go from needs to, you know, for level

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one discretionary, you need to still five extra income to do that. But it's just that that's

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smaller percentage. So I do think that's individual. I'm super risk averse ironically.

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So what do you do with a catch like if you're spending 10% or sort of what happens to the other 90%

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are we are we not going S&P 500 or is that still like? No, I count it. We invest, but I have a bigger,

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I kind of a bigger play for what we're going to do. So right now I'm just stacking it. And I've

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always been a pretty big cash stacker. I always have a lot of liquidity. I just feel better with it.

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People are like, you're not getting the return. I'll say to you, I make a ton of money. I don't

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like that's not like what what am I getting the return for? So I would rather have big chunks of

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cash that I can go on big offense when I want it. Then it's just different way to do things. You

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know what I mean? I also have Layla and so she handles a ton of stuff internally. And so I wouldn't

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be able to do some of the investment stuff that we do. I probably wouldn't do some of the investment

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stuff we do right now that takes a little bit more time like deal analysis, etc. If I didn't have her.

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So like if I didn't have Layla and I were just trying to live the most passive chill lifestyle,

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I'd probably just put everything into a dividend ETF, makes 34% a year and still gets the

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appreciation. And I would just love paying down or paying up that dividend check every month and

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just watching it go up. And they would probably just become a game for me because it's truly passive.

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You know what I mean? Like that's just truly zero management passive income, which I do like

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from a cash flow perspective. And qualified dividends for anyone who's curious gets taxed at

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capital gains rates, which are lower. So even if you make a ton of money, you're still only paying

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you know, 20, 23% depending where you're at. So for me, I was like, okay, that works. It's still

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relatively tax efficient to get the cash flow from that from the investment. But for me though,

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I am going to take bigger risks with the wealth I have because it's the kind of the next level

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of the game for me is taking big bets. What does what does that look like?

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Broadly. You'll see more stuff for me on the media side, probably in the in the next 12 to 18.

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I'll be probably making really major investments in media. Because like, you know,

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here's a fun one which you can appreciate from a YouTube perspective. It cost me like less than a

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dollar. But it cost me a dollar, whatever. It's around a buck per subscriber per month.

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Now I'm taking my entire media team cost, which goes across all platforms, which is not really

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fair. But if I were to, if I even took that whole media team and put it against YouTube,

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it cost me around a dollar each a month per subscriber. And I make more than a dollar

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at your per subscriber, just in assets. So like from a return, you know what I mean? Like that

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doesn't include like what I actually make money, which is mine, you know, my deal flow side.

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So it's, you know what I mean? It's like, well, then I should, you know,

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put my money there. And I will be, I'll be taking bigger and bigger chunks of companies.

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Right now we do minority deals, but I will be taking majority interesting companies where it makes

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sense. So it's like, if I see a company that makes sense within the entire portfolio. So I give

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an example. So like if somebody has an accounting firm, it would be great to just have the accounting

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at hold co. And I'll just buy 100% and then I can provide those services internally. And then

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because of the buying power that I have between the entire kind of conglomerate for like a better

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term, you know, if I have, you know, $250 million a year and in business that I can push towards

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something, it's like, I'm not going to push that kind of money towards something that I don't own

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majority of at least. So those are kind of the two directions that I'll probably go. And it's

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just reinvesting more in the team. And, you know, taking, I mean, from a, from a money allocation

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perspective, more of that would go towards the majority purchases of the team. But that's just,

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you know, fundamentally how I see it, like I'll get better returns on that stuff than I will in

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the S&P. And I have to take, if I want to get to a billion, I have to make some bigger bets,

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which is fine. Real quick guys, if you can think about how you found this podcast,

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somebody probably tweeted it, told you about it, shared it on Instagram or something like that.

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The only way this grows is through word of mouth. And so I don't run ads. I don't do sponsorships.

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I don't sell anything. My only ask is that you continue to pay it forward to whoever showed you

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or however you found out about this podcast that you do the exact same thing. So if it was a review,

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if it was a post, if you do that, it would mean the world to me and you'll throw some good karma

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out there for another entrepreneur. What's the goal here? Is the goal to get to a billion? Like,

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what is it? The goal gets to 10 billion. Yeah, the goal is to get to 10 billion.

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But the mission is to just make real business knowledge available for everyone.

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And so that's what I'm trying to do. And so everything I do aligns that's why I make the books.

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So I make the courses. That's why we do the YouTube stuff. That's why we make the shorts.

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That's why we do podcasts. That's why we do all of it. It's just to make real business education

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available to everybody. But I have to answer the question why should I listen to you? And I want to

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be unassailable in that perspective, A, and then B, I do believe that I'll gain more perspective

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as things grow. So it's more than I'm just curious what I'm going to learn going from, you know,

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$200 million per portfolio to a billion dollar per portfolio to a 10 billion dollar per portfolio.

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And so I have wished that Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk and Warren Buffett would come out of the course.

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I wouldn't that be amazing, but they didn't. And so my goal is to just document the path that we learn

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along the way. And you know, when I die, hopefully there'll just be a whole bunch of people who

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are younger than me who make way more money than I do at my age because they were able to just

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shortcut a lot. Why is that the mission? Like I'm making business education available? Like what

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where's the kind of emotional resonance with you for that thing? Because that's what set me through.

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Free is in free from the corporate wage slavery. Yeah, from everything. Yeah, not even corporate

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ways. Like I'm free. I can do whatever. I don't have to do anything. If I didn't want to. So I just

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get I just get optionality, which is all I want. I just want to have options. And so I wouldn't

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have that if all of the stuff didn't exist. And I have had many mentors and many coaching programs

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and many courses. And so, you know, I would say that I differ from the vast majority of the talking

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heads in the business space and that I, to my knowledge, the only one who came up through that world.

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Like you look at Andy for sale, you look at my lab, you look at Gary, you know what I mean? Like there's

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there's, they've none of them came up through learning stuff on YouTube, going to seminars,

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going to coaching programs. I did. So I'm a huge advocate for the for for alternative education

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and paying for skills as fast as you can. To what extent do you think about the balance between

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I guess optimizing for freedom, freedom fund flexibility, all of that, like living whatever life

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you want kind of vibes versus some people say that once you get to a certain point, you realize

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that actually more money, more status, more success, more freedom is not actually thing. And actually

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the thing I care about is investing in a relationship and like having a family and having kids and

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like buying a house and the sort of putting down roots versus having wings kind of vibe.

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I have options. So if I change my mind, I can change my mind. But as I see it right now from where I

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said the thing that lights me up every day is is making business knowledge available. And I mean,

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I spend an inordinate amount of time. Like I spend so much time on those books and presentations

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that I make when I give speeches and stuff like every presentation I make up to this point in

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my career has been custom. And that takes me like three days, you know what I mean to make a

365
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presentation. So like if you've seen last dance, Michael Jordan, there's this there's a small

366
00:28:19.760 --> 00:28:24.640
more he says that he always has to bring his all because it's the there's some person who

367
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.240
spent harder and money and it's the only game they're ever going to see. And he wants to bring

368
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:33.280
his best for that. And so that's how I see it. You know, I mean, like there's people who will

369
00:28:33.280 --> 00:28:37.280
never, you know, they spent real money to be there. And it was like they're hoping that they can

370
00:28:37.280 --> 00:28:40.880
get one thing from this thing. It's going to like change their life. And I want to honor that.

371
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.400
What is like a day in the life look like for you? Oh, it's, I mean, I could share my screen, but it's

372
00:28:46.080 --> 00:28:55.840
it's a I I work on my own stuff until about one most days. So usually five to one is Alex time to

373
00:28:55.840 --> 00:29:05.520
do whatever. Five to five m to one. Yeah. Yeah, cool. And then usually from one to four,

374
00:29:05.520 --> 00:29:15.200
one to four 30-ish is when I do meetings. And then that's it. Go to the gym, eat, and then I'm done.

375
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:22.400
Sounds pretty chill. And where are you based? We're all over right now. The hub is in Vegas,

376
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.520
but we're here. We're all over. I mean, we travel a lot. So it's kind of like this is our

377
00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:32.720
in between when we're traveling spot. I remember you just talking to me about like how you like

378
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:37.280
your office to be very like sparse and not overly fancy and stuff. And that's one of the things

379
00:29:37.280 --> 00:29:42.560
that really I really vibe with with with in your in your videos. And that you seem to accept

380
00:29:42.560 --> 00:29:47.280
until recently. Do you seem to just be filming on some shitty webcam and just like spouting

381
00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:51.920
knowledge. And it's just like my blowing because you haven't got the and there's like a charm

382
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:56.720
to the jankiness. And it's just like, whoa, shit, I'm getting the real truth without any of the

383
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.720
production value that like normally gets in the way. Yeah. Again, was that deliberate? Is that

384
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.160
just accidental? Is that just how it ended up being? I mean, that's how it started. You know,

385
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:09.120
I mean, like I'm a big I'm a big believer in just start. And you'll the path eliminates as you walk.

386
00:30:09.120 --> 00:30:13.680
You know, I mean, we now have I mean, I started without a media team. So I just clicked record.

387
00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:17.360
I would send it. I mean, I had my media team at gym launch, but it wasn't it. What that

388
00:30:17.360 --> 00:30:21.360
business wasn't built on content. It was built on outbound and paid at. So I just said, you know,

389
00:30:22.080 --> 00:30:25.920
click, you know, clip it, put a thumbnail on it and post it on my YouTube. I don't even know how

390
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:30.240
to upload them just to say, actually, yeah, silly was I was like, just upload it. And so I just

391
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:34.240
put it in a drop box and they would upload it. And then that was that was what I did for the first,

392
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:40.640
I don't know, six, nine months. And then we hired somebody to actually do recordings with the camera.

393
00:30:41.600 --> 00:30:46.240
And so he's like, you know, if we did it like on the couch, it would look a lot better. I was like,

394
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:50.160
OK, that's fine. So I took the same amount of time for me. Now I just had some more people who could

395
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:56.560
who could help. And it has shown despite, you know, as much as I would lament, you know, I would

396
00:30:56.560 --> 00:31:00.720
love to just do it like this. That you know, the audio quality is better, the video quality is better.

397
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:08.000
And the newer videos definitely do better from a objective standpoint. So some people need to,

398
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:15.760
you know, can't focus this long. And so they need a little bit more happening. And so we can now,

399
00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:18.720
again, the whole point is to make it available to everybody. So that means that people who don't

400
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:24.000
have the attention span, I need to make something available for them to. So I just knew my best to,

401
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.520
I'm just not going to bitch in my own about the fact that like, people's attention has been short

402
00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:30.960
and like, so people are like, I can't cover anything in 60 seconds. I'm like, there's a hell of a lot.

403
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.800
You can cover in 60 seconds. You know what you're saying? So you know what I mean? Like I'm just not,

404
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:41.520
I'm just not wanting to complain about what it is, what it is. And so I will do my best to match,

405
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:47.200
you know, providing value to the context that that people are consuming it.

406
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.600
It seemed like you're spending like, I don't know, half a million a month on content.

407
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.400
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not even close. I think we're spending about 100 grand a month.

408
00:31:57.040 --> 00:32:01.120
Oh, okay. Maybe sort of $1 per subscriber per month, it's what it's costing you.

409
00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:05.760
Yeah, per year. I make a dollar per year. Oh, per year. Okay, cool. I was thinking like, per month

410
00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:11.440
for shit. That's a lot. Yeah. No, my channel makes, I think as of today, like right now, it makes 41,

411
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:16.880
42,000 a month. And then Layla's, Layla also uses the same team. I think hers makes six or seven,

412
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:21.360
something like that. So that's just that. And then the book, the book revenue comes on top of that,

413
00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:24.960
which I count those kind of the same thing because I think that's where a lot of people find us.

414
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.280
Those two things together, you know, are more than that. So I am, I technically spent a little bit less

415
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:34.960
than I'm making, which kind of further reinforces the point. Just depends if we're just saying only

416
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:39.360
ad sensor, if we include the book, whatever. So what does 100k month, like, oh, what does,

417
00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:43.200
what does that look like at the back end of the content production engine? Yeah, it's not huge.

418
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:50.160
Right now we've got four in house. I still do Twitter. So I do Twitter full time. That's still just

419
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:56.160
me. It's because I like it. I would do it anyways. We have a podcast vendor, a LinkedIn vendor,

420
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:07.120
YouTube vendor, a short slash TikTok slash Reels vendor. And by vendor, you mean like a company that,

421
00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:11.760
yeah, okay. Now we have our internal components because like my whole playbook is pretty simple,

422
00:33:11.760 --> 00:33:17.360
which is go find the best person who's already doing this at a high level, pay whatever to get

423
00:33:17.360 --> 00:33:21.760
them to do it. Be clear that your intention is to take it in house over the long call. Start

424
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:28.240
doing with them only hire somebody to be the inner interface between those two who has the skill

425
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:32.080
set. And then eventually get to the point where you double your volume because you do half from the

426
00:33:32.080 --> 00:33:36.080
vendor, half from the in house person, when the in house person beats the vendor, you fire the vendor.

427
00:33:36.800 --> 00:33:40.320
And so what does it look like to work with like an agency on the YouTube side? Are they telling you

428
00:33:40.320 --> 00:33:44.160
that hey, Alex, we need to do a video with this title and this thumbnail, go talk or like, what

429
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:49.680
does that look like? So my team does it. So because I have in house team two. So they will, they'll send me

430
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:54.800
like I could I could show you a document, but it's like the next film session they have like eight

431
00:33:54.800 --> 00:34:03.200
ideas for videos. I'll just pick the three that I'm feeling. And so they have like headline idea,

432
00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:07.680
talking points that they've grabbed from my other videos and shorts that they've kind of combined

433
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:15.040
together into one video. And I use that as a loose outline for what I'm going to talk about.

434
00:34:15.040 --> 00:34:17.920
It has to be minimum, and this is one of the things that my team gets is like,

435
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:23.040
it has to be minimal on my side because I'm still doing other stuff. You know what I mean?

436
00:34:24.560 --> 00:34:30.800
So yeah, that's my that's the big big. And so is the is is part of as part of the overall mission of

437
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:35.360
making business knowledge accessible to everyone is part of that like you getting as big as possible

438
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:39.920
in all the social platforms as quickly as possible with as much content as possible like the Gary V model.

439
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:45.120
Yeah, probably 100% nice. We're still not even like we're barely scratching what I would

440
00:34:45.120 --> 00:34:49.840
consider to be phase one of that, but we're on just phase one. What are the next few phases?

441
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:54.640
We're right now. We're just getting all the platforms. Then we need to maximize all the

442
00:34:54.640 --> 00:34:59.200
platforms which are currently not doing. We have to take it all in-house. We have to do that

443
00:34:59.200 --> 00:35:06.560
which we haven't done yet. I'm not running any paid of any kind which I would add on. I don't

444
00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:13.680
have any affiliates or endorsements which I would add on. I don't have any like in terms of level

445
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:18.560
of content. I would like to do some more like custom production stuff. That's more show-ish

446
00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:24.560
than just like you know seven ways to make a million dollars without any money. So those

447
00:35:24.560 --> 00:35:28.960
are kind of like the direction of where I'd like to go with it. And it'll just it'll take time.

448
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:33.440
And that's fine. Like great things take time. And do you think at all about sort of

449
00:35:34.160 --> 00:35:38.320
pitching certain content like like for example pitching it to a complete beginner who's never

450
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:42.400
even heard of business versus pitching it to someone who here's how to level up your sales which

451
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:47.280
is a bit more advanced. Like how do you think of that balance? It's a discussion that we actually

452
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:53.360
have internally a lot. So I believe because our belief shape our world that we can make content

453
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.440
that helps both. So a hundred million dollar offers if you don't know what to sell that will help

454
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:02.240
you. If you sell shitloads of stuff it will help you. So I do believe that if you I think there's

455
00:36:02.240 --> 00:36:07.120
if if if things are packaged and presented properly like sales to your to your point. Can I make

456
00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:12.640
a half step into just call it persuasion? And all of a sudden it's not sales guys it's sales

457
00:36:12.640 --> 00:36:16.720
guys marketers and general population that want to influence people. So all of a sudden it becomes

458
00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:21.120
a much more open topic. So I'm trying to think about all the like this is what I'm acting like

459
00:36:21.120 --> 00:36:25.200
this is today Alex is what I'm thinking about right now because I think that there and you know

460
00:36:25.200 --> 00:36:29.680
this better than I do but this is just my inkling is that there's a natural ceiling that start you

461
00:36:29.680 --> 00:36:33.920
start to approach now where we haven't seen any slowdown at all but like I would imagine that

462
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:38.560
there's a ceiling that you begin to approach as you start to kind of own I don't say own but like

463
00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:47.600
take up a big slice of like brain brain share of a certain niche right and so the only way to expand

464
00:36:47.600 --> 00:36:53.600
beyond that I think I've you know I've I've known people who went from sales to marketing sales to

465
00:36:53.600 --> 00:36:58.400
business to make mine you know I mean as they just go they go broader and broader but I think if

466
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:03.360
you have the depth of knowledge behind you you can make something wide yet also deep. So that's a

467
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:08.640
belief that I'm choosing right now is that we can do both. We can make content that is wide and

468
00:37:08.640 --> 00:37:12.240
deep. It's just harder but I think we can do it so that is what I'm committing to. If you were to

469
00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:16.480
start the whole content thing again like from scratch what are what are some things that you might

470
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:22.800
do differently? I would have started five years ago. That's what I would have done. The only

471
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:26.160
thing I could wish for sort of things to happen faster the only thing they would happen faster

472
00:37:26.160 --> 00:37:31.040
is if I started earlier so that's that's it but then there's also the caveat of like I have

473
00:37:31.040 --> 00:37:35.840
credibility now that I didn't have five years ago. So I mean you could make the argument I did

474
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:40.240
I could probably just show my tax return when I was 27 and show $17 million of income like I could

475
00:37:40.240 --> 00:37:44.400
show that I could have done that maybe I don't know I could have but like I don't I honestly don't

476
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:48.720
spend much time thinking about it I'm content with what we're doing now we know plan we have to

477
00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:53.280
execute and so now we're just we're just laying the bricks. Final thing I wanted to ask you about so

478
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.760
I think I heard you say in one of the interviews that you've had six pack abs since the age of like

479
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:11.520
16 or something something like that I've had six pack abs on my kind of annual bucket list for

480
00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:17.920
the last several years and just never really gotten there it is there like a single resource

481
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.240
lack of knowledge or is it like a knowledge motivation motivation okay well that's that's the

482
00:38:22.240 --> 00:38:26.400
totally different thing you know I mean like you might you might also want to be a trillion there

483
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:30.240
you might want a lot of things but like if you don't want it enough it doesn't matter I think it's

484
00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:33.040
just more accepting that you're not going to have a chance not only to pay the price and that's fine

485
00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:39.760
what is the price you like to be motivated yeah I want a six pack it's not that hard though that's

486
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:45.680
why I'm like yeah and everyone is who's listening it's like fuck this guy I don't know I've

487
00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:53.040
counted my macros for 20 years have you okay so go away but but I mean it's just calorie deficit

488
00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:57.280
you know I mean it's just it's like there's tons of people in Africa who have six packs they just

489
00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:01.920
don't see the sign of status there it's just everyone's definitely skinny you know what I mean and so

490
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:06.240
six pack is purely body fat percentage that's it it's just body fat percentage it just means you

491
00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:11.520
eat too much that's all and the six pack plus being jacked is progressive overload protein I've

492
00:39:11.520 --> 00:39:16.320
seen one of your videos where you sort of break break that down and then to get to six pack abs

493
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:21.920
you're just sort of calorie deficit and while training broadly I mean truly that is it and so

494
00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:28.880
hit every muscle group do it three times a week add weight or reps over the bar over a long

495
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.960
period of time that's all you have to do and then eat less than you burn do that for a long period

496
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.080
of time you'll gain muscle you'll lose fat and then you'll look up after 18 months you'll have

497
00:39:36.080 --> 00:39:39.760
a six pack like it just that's it when people are signing up to the weight loss programs or

498
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:46.080
or like a gym program and stuff presumably they know this so like is it that like the motivation

499
00:39:46.080 --> 00:39:49.840
gap the accountability gap like what is it that is the the the the quick secret source that makes

500
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:54.080
someone yes to your to your point even of alternative education in general when you say hey you

501
00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:58.240
could learn the stuff on YouTube etc etc the issue that we're solving for is not that it's not

502
00:39:58.240 --> 00:40:03.040
a knowledge gap the issue is an accountability gap is that people don't do stuff like that is the

503
00:40:03.040 --> 00:40:07.440
primary issue with all humans in general so they will not endure short-term discomfort for a

504
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:12.960
long-term achievement that is it you hack that you hack success that's all it is and so it's just

505
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:19.200
how can I how can I make it more inconvenient for them to not follow than to follow so I can

506
00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:22.400
still lean into their humanity and just say how can I make it more uncomfortable for them to not

507
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:28.480
follow and that's an element of that is accountability is that someone says hey bad boy you had a cookie

508
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:33.520
when you shouldn't have you feel bad feel bad I'm punishing you because like the only way to change

509
00:40:33.520 --> 00:40:37.760
you only have two things you can do change behavior right you can reinforce or you can

510
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.480
throw out you can punish that's it you've carrots and sticks that is literally it and so

511
00:40:43.120 --> 00:40:47.120
currently they're getting reinforced by their you know by their current way of living so think

512
00:40:47.120 --> 00:40:50.960
about this way what is not having six pack do for it it does something for you because you keep

513
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:56.640
buying it what does not having a six pack do for me yeah because it means that it's over a six pack

514
00:40:56.640 --> 00:41:02.720
so yeah the food the food just tastes too good and I know that I should yeah but it's probably not

515
00:41:02.720 --> 00:41:06.160
and I get it McDonald's drive through it like midnight and I know it's bad and like it could be

516
00:41:06.160 --> 00:41:10.480
convenience convenience and then the store you wrap around like I'm an entrepreneur I need to

517
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:15.280
just do things on my own time etc right so I think if you if like it's unpacking those things

518
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:19.760
of just trying to find your own bullshit and or if it's meaningful for you because like I

519
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:23.920
understand why it wouldn't be I was on this podcast and I got an argument with the the spokesperson

520
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:28.000
he's like don't you agree that every entrepreneur should be working every day and I was like no

521
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.160
and he did not go the direction he was expecting he looks at me and he's expecting to say that I'm

522
00:41:32.160 --> 00:41:37.200
like now like what are we solving for if you just don't live a long time then just walk walk and

523
00:41:37.200 --> 00:41:40.320
don't eat a lot like it's all you have to do like literally it that's all you have to do if she's

524
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:44.080
don't live the longest amount possible like I am gonna live a shorter amount of time because I have

525
00:41:44.080 --> 00:41:48.560
more muscle mass I'm shortening my life by being a big guy so it just depends on what's what problem

526
00:41:48.560 --> 00:41:55.120
we're solving but given how you look now you could you could look fit in 12 months like you could

527
00:41:55.120 --> 00:41:58.320
look like a person that people are like oh wow this guy works out because you don't have a baseline

528
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:02.400
effect that you were left I mean you do you have you have body fat but like you're not you're not

529
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:06.800
overweight you're just you have your body compositions poor not poor but you don't say it's not it's

530
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:11.840
not what you want I know you think yeah nice it's a figure out where you want uh find out what

531
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:16.400
the price is and just be willing to pay that price and yeah we're don't which is also fine I don't

532
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:21.120
buy everything that I see on the shelf if we're free I'd want it right maybe if I work you know

533
00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:25.920
a hoarder of some sort but like like like the thing that everybody has is we all have a wallet

534
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:30.480
with the same dollars in it we have $24 right and so it's like everything has a ticket on it

535
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:35.040
and we're just choosing to spend that dollar whatever we want now $8 we got to spend on on

536
00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:38.960
sleep it's like okay well now I only have you know $16 left I'm like all right well what is this

537
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:43.840
cost well this cost a dollar it's pretty every day I'm committing to a dollar of my $12 or

538
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:48.640
whatever my my $16 it's a big cost does it make sense coming back to the six pack example again

539
00:42:48.640 --> 00:42:54.480
like how much time effort do you have how many dollars do you pay each day to maintain the six pack

540
00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:59.120
minimal I have a passive income body now okay fine already yeah this is this is passive

541
00:42:59.120 --> 00:43:02.960
dividends I don't need to do much to maintain this to get to here it's much harder to maintain

542
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:06.960
years easy I mean think about this how much effort does it cost you right now to maintain your

543
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:12.480
current body zero absolutely right that's how it really does not take like unless you give your body

544
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:18.400
a reason to eat muscle it's been a lot of resources to to build it right and so you can have

545
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:23.840
minimal stimulation on a weekly basis to maintain contractile tissue and provided your eating

546
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:28.720
sufficient protein your body will take the protein it needs from your intake rather than it's

547
00:43:28.720 --> 00:43:33.440
stores of protein which is your muscle I mean if you watch the video there's it's like you just

548
00:43:34.640 --> 00:43:40.160
a pound a day of meat or something yeah yeah nice Alex thank you so much there's been absolutely

549
00:43:40.160 --> 00:43:49.360
wonderful all right thanks so much thank you