WEBVTT

1
00:00:04.908 --> 00:00:32.026
Hey guys, I just want to tell you about something else that Bill, Voldemort, and I are working on. It's called Living Influence Leadership. It's for business leaders who also happen to be Christians. We think we've got some great stuff that can be amazing in your companies. It wasn't mine. Check us out at livinginfluenceleadership.com. Welcome to Living Influence. I'm your host, Scott Boyd, along with these two guys that I have with me today, Bill Thrall and Voldemort Cole.

2
00:00:32.836 --> 00:00:54.183
You know, in life, sometimes you have achievements that you really are proud of. And I got to tell you about one that I'm proud of. Last night, for the first time ever at 86 years old, Bill Frahl had sushi. And I actually really liked it. I actually liked it. I never knew what to order.

3
00:00:54.368 --> 00:01:10.248
Now, Bill is Jaja. That's his name to his grandchildren. And his grandkids all like sushi. So just a shout out to all his grandkids. You now have to take Bill and Grace. They both tried it. They both liked it. And you got to take them out to a sushi restaurant, order for them.

4
00:01:10.248 --> 00:01:29.941
so that they can learn to appreciate this. They will love it. Yeah, it was a good story. So we got a book coming out in a couple of months called Living Influence. We think you're going to love it. I personally have read parts one and two, and I'm getting ready to read part three. I was telling Grace this morning, it is like...

5
00:01:29.941 --> 00:01:46.158
Being in a lazy river carried along with this message that just draws you in. Oh, wow. And I just, I mean, everyone I know that's read the first two sections is excited about the book. Oh, I forgot. And so— Good to hear. Good to hear.

6
00:01:46.158 --> 00:02:03.995
Check out livinginfluence.com. We're going to have more information about the book as we get to the place where we're going to be able to release it and have it for you. So we're excited about that. The book was why we're doing the podcast because we went to an editor and the editor goes, hey, more people listen to podcasts.

7
00:02:03.995 --> 00:02:31.349
Then read books. So if you're going to do a book, you have to do a podcast. And so here we are. That's how it all happened. The second thing I tell you is we're really excited about an event we have in September. It's a conference for leaders who are Christians. And you can find more about that on livinginfluenceleadership.com. And we're really excited about that. So today in our podcast, we're going to talk about parents. Parents.

8
00:02:31.349 --> 00:02:47.718
Because we think we have a good number of parents in our audience listening to our podcasts. And so as we were framing our podcast today, we were thinking about the dedicated Christian parent. And what are the questions that that person might be asking?

9
00:02:48.022 --> 00:03:07.495
You know, like, you know, they might be thinking, gosh, faith without works is dead, but what works do I have in my life that I'm showing my kids? Or why is my walk with God harder than I think it should be? Yeah. How am I going to have my kids be excited about God when I'm struggling in my own faith? Amen. Amen.

10
00:03:07.968 --> 00:03:29.872
You know, you might be like, I can't let my kids see this thing about me because I don't want them to fall in the same hole that I've fallen into. And I'm afraid that if they know this is true about me, so we find ourselves hiding. Yeah. Right? Exactly. You know, my children are struggling. It's got to be my fault.

11
00:03:29.872 --> 00:03:58.036
I mean, sad for me, I didn't discover grace until my kids were in high school. Yeah. So I was late to the game, and I was late to the game in preventing some of the legalism that exists in Christianity from affecting my kids. Well said. Well said. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Where do we go? I'm going to go way back for a minute. Our ministry, called Open Door Fellowship,

12
00:03:59.302 --> 00:04:18.067
Started in the early 70s, and we were at that point in outreach ministry, and God was blessing us, and literally, literally hundreds of young adults were coming to Christ. Somebody said I did over 300 weddings in the first five, six years of our ministry. It was just amazing.

13
00:04:18.067 --> 00:04:44.425
And it's like one every weekend. It was sometimes, Scott, believe it or not, we would do two and three on a Saturday. Wow. It was just— That's crazy. It was wonderful. And what happened was these people started to fall in love and getting married, started to have families. And we realized, I realized, a lot of them had almost no parenting models. Right.

14
00:04:45.100 --> 00:05:14.918
And so I developed a class for parents, children born to four years old. Well, then these same people stayed and their children got older, so I developed a class for parenting on five to nine years old. And they kept sticking around, so I did one from nine to 13. Now, these people have been in our ministry for seven, eight, ten years, and then we did one for 14 to 17 years old. Yeah.

15
00:05:15.458 --> 00:05:41.851
And I say all that because really, really at my heart of hearts, parenting is a really, really important subject. And all that it is. And part of that opportunity for us was that we, my wife and I, we were being challenged by what we needed to discover for their benefit. And so it was transforming us.

16
00:05:42.121 --> 00:06:11.298
Because you were parenting your kids at the same time. We were parenting my children at the same time. Right, right. And they were just older. But we were still going through the process. And then much later, just, I don't know, 20 years ago, I can't remember, we wrote a book for parents. And I want to start there because I want to make just a couple of statements out of that book that I think will help us today. One of our main themes in that book and really in our whole parenting philosophy is,

17
00:06:11.298 --> 00:06:38.838
is how critical it is. I say this to parents. The greatest gift you can give your child is to be somebody they can trust. I'm going to say that again. The greatest gift you can give to your child is for you to be somebody they can trust because their trust of you allows them to let you love them.

18
00:06:40.205 --> 00:07:06.547
Lots of parents. The question isn't whether you love your children. Yes, yes, you're a good parent. You love your children. The question I'm raising is, are your children experiencing your love? That's the question. And so imagine your children trusting you. I'll interrupt myself to say, for some of you, I already hit a sore spot.

19
00:07:06.547 --> 00:07:33.952
Because you're wise enough to know that in order for your children to trust you, they have to know you. And lots of parents are afraid to be known without realizing that fear to be known is robbing their children of trust, which is robbing them of experiencing love. Whoa, I just gave a whole series of oh my goshes. Mm-hmm.

20
00:07:34.087 --> 00:08:00.226
It is. Yeah. Yeah. But another dynamic in this dynamic is when my children learn to trust me, I become a vehicle to teach them truth. Now, I'm going to stay on my soapbox for just a minute this morning. I want to give you—I want to give me. I want to give us. I want to give anyone that's listening that's a parent. I want you to be careful—

21
00:08:01.576 --> 00:08:23.362
that you never use the authority in your role to get your children to do what you want them to do. Your children, in response to your authority, will lose your person.

22
00:08:24.526 --> 00:08:54.513
So I can't say, you need to do this or I'm going to write you out of the will? Exactly. You can say it, and some people do it. But I just want to so emphasize that point. So never use your authority. Don't only use your authority, say it that way. To get your children, because they will react to your authority. Understand the transfer of truth is through the essence of your person.

23
00:08:54.682 --> 00:09:15.337
Mm-hmm. And it's only the truth that you have learned, understood, and live in that is transferable to them. Again, I've just said a mountain full of words. Yeah, and you have a one-liner about God and authority that fits right here. Absolutely. Because it's a model for us. Sure. It's...

24
00:09:16.703 --> 00:09:44.108
It's Adam and Eve rebelled against God's authority. Right. And so God set aside his authority and became man, Jesus, so that we might learn to know his person. Absolutely, Philippians. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. And so it's like a lot of people will say, well, who's God? And I'll just say, look, be really careful to understand this.

25
00:09:45.070 --> 00:10:01.405
Remember, his name is Jesus. If you ever want to know who God is and what he's like, his name is Jesus. So kind of in a non-screaming voice, I'm screaming to say, Mom and Dad,

26
00:10:02.603 --> 00:10:31.898
understand carefully how profoundly important it is that your children trust your person because you can love them, because your person is the source of their experiencing truth. I cannot, nobody can, I cannot transfer to you truth I have not experienced. So we're going to get into part of that as we talk about parenting. But there's one more thing

27
00:10:32.624 --> 00:10:57.481
When a parent is trusted, they have the freedom to give guidance. They have the freedom to give guidance. As we all know, children are amazing little characters, creatures. And guess what? They're capable of making their own choices. We may have noticed that along the way of our parenting. Yeah.

28
00:10:58.156 --> 00:11:21.427
And so it's like, how do I—I'm hearing Bill. What's he really saying? What I'm really saying is this. Take the risk of being known. One of the things you mentioned, Scott, in the beginning was lots of parents struggle because they hide their personal issues. Right?

29
00:11:21.427 --> 00:11:38.538
I personally vote very strongly that your children need to know your struggles. They don't have to know the details, but they need to know your struggle. I have a story. I met with a ministry, and the ministry director...

30
00:11:38.538 --> 00:12:07.968
Somewhere in the first 10 minutes, he talked about a struggle he was having with his teenage daughter, kind of a bypassing thing. And then we talked about his ministry and all the things that we could wonderfully do together. And we got all done with the little dog and pony show. And I looked at him and I said, I'd like more information about your daughter. He said, what? I said, you mentioned struggling with your daughter. What's going on? And he shared it. And I just was discerning what he was saying.

31
00:12:08.913 --> 00:12:22.227
Like your daughter doesn't know her dad. I think she's idealized him. I think you've created an ideal dad. She can't respond to your idealism or the idealism she's created for you.

32
00:12:22.733 --> 00:12:49.885
She didn't know you. We had a long conversation. I met with him further, et cetera, et cetera. But we came up with a strategy, and he was going to go and tell his daughter a story he'd never told her about how screwed up he was at a time. And I love this story. And so he goes home, and he figures out a time, and he sits down with his teenage daughter, and he tells her this story, and he cries. And her response was, I don't believe you, Dad.

33
00:12:51.421 --> 00:13:17.999
I don't believe you. You're just telling me that's all feel better about how screwed up I am. Because you've never done anything like that. And he calls me up. He says, Bill, it didn't work exactly the way we thought it would. But I said, no. See, she made her point. And I say that to all of us as parents. Your children love you. They want to know you.

34
00:13:19.298 --> 00:13:29.187
They will not be blown away by your dysfunction. But they will always be at great loss if they can't trust you.

35
00:13:29.744 --> 00:13:50.838
Bill, that story just really resonates, really just hit me as I listened to it. Good. My kids now are late teens all the way to 28. Yes. And a very similar situation happened where... So tell us. Yeah. So, I mean, our daughters, at least, our daughters are older, three daughters and two boys. The daughters...

36
00:13:50.838 --> 00:14:10.109
They've been dating for a little while. And it's interesting because I guess within the last year or so, one of them, I don't remember who it was, somehow shared during a dinner that part of their challenge is that they could never live up to how good my wife and I have been, especially me. I just couldn't. Wow.

37
00:14:10.818 --> 00:14:28.975
Great. And they've struggled in their dating with that. It's like, well, I could never meet the level of excellence that you've had in your life. And I'm thinking, what are you talking about? That's so many issues, but that idealism, that desire to look...

38
00:14:29.110 --> 00:14:53.731
like I have it all put together. And I felt like I had shared stories, but that really opened me up to, I need to talk more. I need to share more of just what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling. And then more recently, our oldest son, who's 22 now, he's just been coming in touch with his, getting in touch with his emotions and some of his struggles. He's part of a Christian group at college, and they're opening up about

39
00:14:54.288 --> 00:15:14.318
Lots of fleshly issues that they are now being real. And like, I need, I need help. I'm putting, I'm bringing it to the light. And he came to me and said, I'd like to have a more open and real honest conversation with you regularly about these things. What a gift. Do you struggle with these? And anyhow, just, it was, yeah, just a very different world. What a gift. Hmm.

40
00:15:14.892 --> 00:15:35.497
Thank you for sharing that, because that's real time. What we're talking about is real. Yeah. And how desperate it is for your daughter and now your son to know their dad. Mm-hmm. And your son, echoing what I said a while ago, and your daughter saw an idealism in you.

41
00:15:35.952 --> 00:15:56.472
That they couldn't match. And so they always felt less than. This idealism is a big deal. It's a huge deal. Because a kid with an idealized parent, when they go into their marriage, they're going to think, oh, this is a deal breaker. Yeah.

42
00:15:56.810 --> 00:16:20.671
Oh, absolutely. You're right at the end. That's a good point. Yeah. Exactly. And they're not going to realize, no, this is light. Right. This is how people really are. And so hiding from our children has huge consequences. Well, this whole dating discussion has enabled that dialogue to happen. It's like, oh, no, let me tell you why that's okay.

43
00:16:20.671 --> 00:16:49.763
Yeah. It's not the behavior. It's the willingness to hear your heart and the desire to change. Mm-hmm. And to actually respond to your emotions. Anyhow, lots of good discussion. Sometimes as Christians, we have idealized the Christian life. Yeah. And in idealizing the Christian life, we've created a model of life that isn't real. Mm-hmm.

44
00:16:50.590 --> 00:17:09.777
And yet our theology supports that model of a life that isn't real. And so our kids have no place to go. And I want to give a huge caution to all the parents that are listening. When your children...

45
00:17:11.195 --> 00:17:37.182
respond to your ideal Christianese, they will become compliant, and they will do what they imagine you are asking them to do, but it'll never touch their heart. I don't know, 10 years ago now, this horrible statistic came out that 70 percent

46
00:17:38.482 --> 00:17:58.158
Of all Christian kids that were in a youth group in a church, by their second year of college, never go to church again. That just blew my mind. And the Southern Baptists said, no, that's not true. That cannot be true. So they did their own survey.

47
00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:24.618
With just their churches. And they came out worse than 70%. But the whole idea is this. In our parenting, if we are not real, the idealized will create compliance. Compliance is never obedience. Compliance is the decision of the will. Right.

48
00:18:25.681 --> 00:18:52.985
A decision of the will to submit to authority. Submission is a decision of the heart that submits to love. That's so good. I can bend my behavior and I can correct my behavior to meet a standard for a while. Exactly. But it's the heart that transforms and changes who I am, and that's through relationship. Exactly. And through relationships of trust.

49
00:18:53.913 --> 00:19:23.849
So we have these compliant kids who lived in this ideal Christian environment, went to an ideal Christianized youth group, and second year in college, they never go to church again. What does that do? I have a negative one-liner. If our children have learned to be compliant, when they become adults, they will blame their parents for their life choices. Ouch.

50
00:19:24.001 --> 00:19:43.340
Ouch, a thousand ouches. And so as we—and we'll continue this next week, but as we go into this idea of how do I as a parent become known so my children can learn to trust me—

51
00:19:43.340 --> 00:20:12.787
And you gave the illustration. So they don't react to my authority with compliance, but trust my person with truth. It's transformational. Yeah. That's beautiful. I think we're going to have to talk about parenting next week again. I do, too. I think there's a lot here. I think we just got started. We just get started and our time's almost up. So thank you for listening to Living Influence.

52
00:20:13.073 --> 00:20:35.585
That you can tease your friend about eating sushi for the first time at 86, and that can be spiritual. We hope to see you next week. Thank you, my brother. Thanks for listening to Living Influence. We appreciate you. Just a call to action. We would love it if you would share our podcast with one or two people this week. Thanks again.