WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.680 Layland, I spent a really long time trying to narrow it down because we believe in three values 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:08.320 rather than five or ten or whatever because you can try and relate thinking. It's very difficult to 3 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:14.560 map five values or ten values against a decision. Welcome to the game where we talk about how to 4 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:18.320 get more customers, how to make more customers, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and 5 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.120 lessons we have learned along the way. I hope you enjoy and subscribe. 6 00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:27.280 I don't know if I ever told you this. I might have told you this, but a conversation 7 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:33.440 you had, I believe it was the first time we met. It was backstage at FHL, right? And I had 8 00:00:33.440 --> 00:00:38.960 this course that at the time was like the hot Facebook ads course, right? And we're standing back 9 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:45.360 there. And I'm, you know, back then I was this little pudgy skinny fat dude sitting there all 10 00:00:45.360 --> 00:00:50.320 with those stupid bunny here had on my head and stuff. And I could just, I could sense your 11 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:56.880 disapproval like through your, through your pores. And I said to you, I was like, hey man, 12 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:01.120 how's it going with Facebook ads or whatever? You're like, oh, like yeah, at the time you were like, 13 00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:05.440 yeah, I don't know how to do Facebook ads. I suck at them. You just were like, just, I don't 14 00:01:05.440 --> 00:01:09.120 even know. And I'm like, well, what is your ROI? And you're like, I don't know, it's like 20 acts. 15 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:13.440 I'm like, wait a minute. What? I'm like, what do you mean 20 acts? I'm like, I'm at like 16 00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:20.080 five acts at, you know, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. How are you doing this, 17 00:01:20.080 --> 00:01:24.560 you know? And you're like, oh, like our cheapest product is 16 grand. So I don't give a shit 18 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:30.240 what our Facebook ads cost. And when you said that, my entire world changed because at the time, 19 00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:35.520 we were pushing anywhere from six to a million, 600 million a month on a thousand dollar product. 20 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:42.960 And when you said that immediately, I realized that, and this is something that I see other entrepreneurs 21 00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:48.400 just don't get, they believe everything revolves around what button you push in the dashboard. And 22 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.400 this is life, right? This is reality in entrepreneur world is you got to push this button, 23 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:55.600 you got to know how to do this thing with this looking like, and none of that shit matters. 24 00:01:56.320 --> 00:02:00.320 If you have, if you don't have good creative and you don't have a good product that you're going to 25 00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:04.480 and the margins don't make sense. So when you said that, I was like, wait a minute, there are far 26 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:11.760 more important things in this world than these little tech things. And so I fundamentally changed 27 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:17.680 my business model. And I made, I went all in on high ticket. And since then, we were just able to, 28 00:02:18.320 --> 00:02:25.280 we went for spending like, you know, 700,000 to make a million to spending like 80,000 to make 29 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:32.400 like 600 that it was just nuts. And you're just revolving around that. And so I don't know if I ever 30 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:36.320 told you that, but that, that, that one conversation, because I'm the type of person when I hear 31 00:02:36.320 --> 00:02:41.120 something that makes sense to me, I'm like, all in like, I'll burn the walls around me and build 32 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:46.240 something new, you know, just to make sure that I, I understand at a higher level. And so 33 00:02:47.200 --> 00:02:52.320 I read your book last week, Jim Lont secrets secrets. And what I thought was, yeah, of course, 34 00:02:52.320 --> 00:02:58.800 I did. Yeah. Well, what I thought was interesting about it. If you do control H on like a digital 35 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:04.560 copy and you replace Jim with just product, I thought about it. I like really consider just 36 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:08.720 literally re-launching it and just call it like coaching secrets because because Jim's are 37 00:03:08.720 --> 00:03:12.480 coaching businesses. They're brick and more. So I think that's why we were able to actually build 38 00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:17.440 our licensing business with Jim Lont so quickly was because like, I had already spent five years. 39 00:03:17.440 --> 00:03:21.600 I didn't know his coaching business, but like, when people come into the gym to work out and lose 40 00:03:21.600 --> 00:03:25.040 weight, like, you're coaching them. Like, it's what it is. And I had a staff of, like, I already knew 41 00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:30.320 all this stuff, but I didn't know I knew it. So anyway, so yes, that this, that book is 100% a 42 00:03:30.320 --> 00:03:34.800 playbook on how to build a coaching business. I know I was reading it. And I'm like, I'm like, 43 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:39.600 nobody's reading this fucking book. I'm like, I mean, for coaching there, the gym people are, 44 00:03:39.600 --> 00:03:43.360 but the coaches are like, it's Jim, it's Jim stuff. I don't need that. And I'm reading it. I'm like, 45 00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:49.440 what? You know, it was just crazy to me. So let me do this. Let me ask you a couple of rapid 46 00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:54.240 fire tactical questions because I always like to get some super, I mean, I love the high level stuff. 47 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:58.880 It's it's the most important stuff, but from a tactical perspective, right? You mentioned word 48 00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:04.880 of mouth. Tactically, I'll just just to kind of like set the stage. I'll give you, I'll give you 49 00:04:04.880 --> 00:04:11.120 one tactic that I've used for word of mouth. I'd love to know how you engineer word of mouth. 50 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:15.120 Because I'll give you an example. We used to do webinars when I would do, I would have like a 51 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:20.000 free Facebook group or some sort of free community. I would do a live webinar. And then what I would 52 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:26.960 do is I remember hearing about this thing called shrilling or shilling. It's where you hire people 53 00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:32.320 to come into a room and you pay them to buy the product and say hand buying the product. It creates 54 00:04:32.320 --> 00:04:37.920 crowd psychology or mob mentality and everybody buys. Well, I don't like, and it's illegal. It 55 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.200 works so good. It's illegal. Well, I don't like to do anything illegal. Go to jail or get in any 56 00:04:41.200 --> 00:04:46.160 trouble. So I thought, how can I get that same effect, but do it ethically? So I made this little 57 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:50.080 technique called the ethical shrill. And what I would do is at the webinar saying, listen, 58 00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:54.560 you're in the free group right now. That's how you got on this webinar. Once you buy, I want you to 59 00:04:54.560 --> 00:05:00.800 go into the free group and post, hey, Dan, I just bought the program. Please add me to the student 60 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:08.800 group. And we'd sell 50 people on the webinar. 50 people in the group would go and post that. 61 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.400 And then people who weren't even on the webinar, they would just freak out and start buying the 62 00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:15.280 product. They'd be like, what are you buying? Where is it? And they'd send them the order page. 63 00:05:15.280 --> 00:05:22.160 And we do a hundred. We double the conversion on the webinar. And there was a huge chunk of people 64 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:28.000 who weren't even on the webinar. And I know that that's a very specific sort of short-term word 65 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:34.080 of mouth sort of hack. But tactically, since you believe that word of mouth is like one of the best 66 00:05:34.080 --> 00:05:38.080 things, like if you were to go to a company and say, hey, listen, here's how you're specifically, 67 00:05:38.080 --> 00:05:40.480 how you're going to increase your word of mouth. What would you tell them? 68 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:45.360 This is a good question. So there's two, there's two kind of components to this. So the first one 69 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:49.760 is like, there is what I would consider a linear way of doing word of mouth, which is kind of what 70 00:05:49.760 --> 00:05:53.440 you outlined. And there's a lot of different tactics around that. And when I say linear, 71 00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:56.320 it's kind of about saying earlier where you get a one-to-one relationship where you say, 72 00:05:56.320 --> 00:06:00.640 every time we do this, we get an additional 20% or whatever it is, right? And so those 73 00:06:00.640 --> 00:06:04.400 ones are, you know, like when the sales guy closes, somebody is like, hey, do you have any other, 74 00:06:04.400 --> 00:06:07.440 you know, gym owner friends or do you have any other other people who might benefit from the same thing? 75 00:06:07.440 --> 00:06:11.760 Like just asking that question, we just get referrals and we can bring it in, right? And so like, 76 00:06:11.760 --> 00:06:14.880 little things like that people were like, well, obviously, but then no one does it, right? Like, 77 00:06:14.880 --> 00:06:21.040 that's that's the thing is that like no one does it, right? And so in terms of like engineering, 78 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:25.280 the customer experience like for us, the thing that gives you the quadratic returns and like, 79 00:06:25.280 --> 00:06:28.960 I'll say it earlier, there's a million ways you can do like, we call it the hinge method where it's 80 00:06:28.960 --> 00:06:32.800 like you, the person that is your customer and then their friend and you a three-way message, 81 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.800 we call it the hinge. And then that's how you bring them in. If you're in an in-person business, 82 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:41.040 you're like, hey, Sandy, do you have any friends who would like this kind of thing? And if they say 83 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:46.080 yes, then you're like, awesome. So how about this? You take their phone from them and then you take 84 00:06:46.080 --> 00:06:51.280 a picture of you and her and then you text it to a thread with the three of you. And then that way 85 00:06:51.280 --> 00:06:57.120 it comes initiated from the friend with you already being the report kind of being shown as you in 86 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:01.040 person with this other person. So then they can't go to you, they can't be rude to you. And then you 87 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:05.360 already have so much more like, you know, no like and trust just from that little exchange, right? So 88 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:10.080 like, that's like, there's tons of little tactical weed stuff that's like that. And you know, 89 00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:14.960 we could spend probably the next hour to go over little things like that. But the big ones are 90 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:20.800 the metrics that I was saying earlier, right? It's how can we drive time to value? How can we 91 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.760 increase the emotional win, the speed with which someone experience an emotional win in the product, 92 00:07:25.760 --> 00:07:30.080 right? So like one of the companies we have, the way that their business model works is that it 93 00:07:30.080 --> 00:07:34.320 takes like 90 days or someone from the day they start to the day they basically make their first 94 00:07:34.320 --> 00:07:38.160 dollar doing this thing, right? And a lot of times it's like real estate deals, like something like 95 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.480 it might just take a long time before someone, you know, can, can make money. And so rather than just 96 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:47.600 say like, up life sucks, I guess that's just what it is, we think, okay, well, how can we, 97 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:51.920 how can we give someone a win in seven days, right? How can we, how can we get as material of 98 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:56.720 win as humanly possible? And then how can we string them along with emotional victories in shorter 99 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:01.920 time periods? And then of these emotional victories, which of these are activation points? And so the 100 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.680 way that we find out activation points is we look at what are the customers and this works better 101 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.440 when you already have some business that's been going on for a meaningful amount of time. You say, 102 00:08:09.440 --> 00:08:13.680 what are my favorite customers, right? And so then we say, okay, well, these are the people that I 103 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:18.320 love working with, use the ones that crushed it for me, et cetera. And we say, okay, what experience 104 00:08:18.320 --> 00:08:23.280 did they have and what steps did they go through that other people didn't go through? And so usually 105 00:08:23.280 --> 00:08:30.560 we can find a few key points that along their life cycle that if we can just then reorient everyone 106 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:34.880 towards those activation points, it's like, hey, like click, funnels figured out that if someone 107 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:38.880 makes their URL with the landing page, they're like, they stick five times longer, right? So then 108 00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:42.080 all of a sudden they had to, they created that as part of the onboarding and then they started 109 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:44.880 paying for the domains because they just wanted everyone to do it because they knew they got five times 110 00:08:44.880 --> 00:08:51.200 stick, right? And so it's, what are these non-traditional KPIs? We call metrics that matter, right? 111 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:57.280 MTMs that we can drive that are activity based, which is like, okay, if someone and I like for Jim 112 00:08:57.280 --> 00:09:00.400 Launch, for example, it was like, I don't talk about the portfolio comments because it's their 113 00:09:00.400 --> 00:09:04.640 companies and I don't want to share their stuff. But like for Jim Launch, for example, we knew that if 114 00:09:04.640 --> 00:09:08.160 if we could get someone to close a $2,000 sale in their first seven days, and this is people who 115 00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:11.920 are used to selling $99 things, it's like, we can get them to close a $2,000 high ticket sale 116 00:09:12.560 --> 00:09:17.600 in the first seven days, we massively extend the lifetime value to customer. And then secondarily, 117 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:22.560 if we can get them to collect $20,000 in their first month with us, they're like, they're in, 118 00:09:22.560 --> 00:09:26.080 you know what I mean, like, they're in for a year, you know what I mean? No questions asked, 119 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:32.400 we are ROI the entire program in the first month in cash collected. So it's how can we engineer 120 00:09:32.400 --> 00:09:38.000 these handful of events and in a B to C business, it might be like, we lost driven. So it doesn't 121 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:43.200 have to be money, right? It's just like, what is the closest or a chunked down outcome that we 122 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:47.120 can express to them, prompts them, it would be meaningful them that they would then, and for like 123 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:50.720 clickfunnels, if you have your own site and you see your domain, there's like this feeling of 124 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:54.080 ownership, feeling of accomplishment, it's so see that's not about making money. But it says, 125 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:59.040 what are these micro events? And so you do is you take the best guys, you map their customer journey, 126 00:09:59.040 --> 00:10:02.960 and a lot of times you can do that qualitatively too. You interview all your best guys and you say, 127 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.800 hey, what was like really meaningful or some of the big magical moments you've had when you're 128 00:10:06.800 --> 00:10:10.160 working with us and you get this big list of them and you're like, all right, well, these ones we 129 00:10:10.160 --> 00:10:15.200 can't engineer this one, we can totally engineer. And then you start building that into the customer 130 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:20.320 journey to increase the lifetime value. And then that's what ultimately drives the word of mouth. 131 00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:24.560 So all of that to go back to like what is what drives word of mouth, exceptional product. 132 00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:28.240 And if you get exceptional product, how do you build exceptional product? You build experiences 133 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:33.280 that drive the results that people want in a choreographed way. So to sort of put a different 134 00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:37.840 perspective on that for these online coaches, you almost it's almost like you funnel hack yourself. 135 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:43.120 Yes. Yeah. So I've always I've always said, you know, the the the only person you should funnel 136 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:48.720 hack is yourself. Because you know, if you got some 80 year old dude with white hair selling the 137 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.600 same product that you sell, they're going to have a different audience. They're going to have 138 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:55.040 different objections. They're going to have a completely different experience, you know, 139 00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:59.120 than than you. And I remember you saying it, I was a YouTube video or something. You were like, 140 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:05.360 hey, the the easiest way to increase the amount of customers you get is just hire a spokesman, 141 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:10.320 haven't say the same stuff you're saying. And you'll attract new people like you. You're like 142 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:17.040 this big Hulk of Mania dude, right? And maybe some like, you know, timid soccer dad is just going 143 00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:21.120 to automatically not like you because you have muscles and he doesn't and he just gets it in his 144 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:26.880 head, right? Or maybe somebody who could be anything. Or just an old Asian lady, you know, I mean, 145 00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:30.560 like even just go in, you know, I mean, like more of the other direction. Yeah. Or maybe somebody 146 00:11:30.560 --> 00:11:35.120 dated a bodybuilder and he was in an asshole and they've developed this this idea. What it could 147 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:39.360 be dumb stuff? But you put somebody else on there. They say the same exact thing. Boom, you got a 148 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:44.640 customer. And that leads me to my to my next question. You see this. So this is one of the things that 149 00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:49.200 this presentation I'm building right now. But you can see each of these people are people that 150 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:55.120 are now like faces of the company, which is what allowed us to sell it and also attract different 151 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:59.440 demographics. It's like, all right, we see the diversity. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And so it's like, 152 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:08.240 we have to attract. You can just email me that slide deck to Dan. But let me ask you this. A lot 153 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:16.000 of people that listen to my stuff and anything, my YouTube, whatever, they're either online coaches, 154 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:21.280 course creators, or they have some sort of business that revolves almost entirely around their 155 00:12:21.280 --> 00:12:26.160 personal brand, meaning it's them, right? So when people buy from them, especially if they buy 156 00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:31.760 high ticket, they want them. They want to interact with them. They want to talk to them. If they say 157 00:12:31.760 --> 00:12:36.800 something, they need to hear it from them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. They're staff, 158 00:12:36.800 --> 00:12:42.400 or this is not good enough. And so for somebody who is inherently the bottleneck of their business, 159 00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:47.520 because it's pretty much based on their brand, like I noticed, when you run ads, it says, 160 00:12:47.520 --> 00:12:52.080 Jim launch doesn't say Alex Harmosey. But most of these personal brand based businesses, 161 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:56.480 they run it with their name. What is the biggest piece of advice or the thing that they could do now 162 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:00.400 to start thinking about how they can remove them and still make the same amount of money, 163 00:13:00.400 --> 00:13:06.960 still grow their business, but remove themselves as that bottleneck. If they got hit by a bus, 164 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:14.080 would the company still run type of thing? Yeah. So I mean, it's easier to transition to customer 165 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:19.600 facing first. Like it's a good intermediary. Is that instead of marketing your face, you market 166 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:24.160 all your customer's results, right? And you can do that from a brand. And so that slowly 167 00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:28.000 starts to build the brand and then people are like, and they associate these successes with 168 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:33.280 the brand. You start building brand equity, right? And then I have a big slant or pension for 169 00:13:33.280 --> 00:13:37.280 database marketing. And so it's something that I never hear anybody just talk about. I still haven't 170 00:13:37.280 --> 00:13:43.680 made a training on it because I it's like so secret sauce and so fucking good. But I'll share 171 00:13:43.680 --> 00:13:48.240 it with the audience. The reason most people don't market with data is because they don't collect it, 172 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.000 right? And they usually don't collect it because it's probably not that good. And so it's usually 173 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.000 like fix the like start collecting it, realize how bad it is. And then now you can start driving to 174 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:01.680 fix it. And then once you get good data back from like like I can tell you all the the the 175 00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:05.280 metric and it's it's in every video. It's in every piece of copy. It's on every landing page. 176 00:14:05.280 --> 00:14:10.960 It's like we on average triple the profit of a brick and mortar, a brick and mortar gym in 12 177 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:16.080 months. I've seen that in your ads. You always go back to that. That's true. 178 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:21.520 Right. Because that's the that's the logic. And I actually tend to have probably a relatively 179 00:14:21.520 --> 00:14:27.040 contrary and view on persuasion. And I think that it's the higher up the ticket amount, the more 180 00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:32.480 logic is employed in the purchase. Because like if you're you know I mean like you're closing a 181 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.560 $10 million deal. It's not like let me tell you this is a Piffney Bridge story when I was like you 182 00:14:36.560 --> 00:14:41.360 and I didn't have a $10 million. You know what I mean? It's just like it's a different buyer. And so 183 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.800 the higher the ticket price, the more I think logical reasoning you have to employ to get the yes. 184 00:14:46.800 --> 00:14:53.120 Because this is my belief. They're there because they wanted already emotional. They they want the 185 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:58.320 promise, right? And what we're doing is giving them the logical reasons to justify the decision. 186 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.280 And so most people, if you make the promise, they just immediately don't believe you. And so then 187 00:15:03.280 --> 00:15:07.840 it's how can I they want the thing? They just don't believe it. And so it's like how can I help you 188 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.200 believe? And a lot of that for me is giving them logical reasoning around that. And if you've noticed 189 00:15:13.280 --> 00:15:19.360 any in any of the as a gym once in general, a lot of it is data driven. It's just like guys like 190 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.800 this is the average, you know, amount of leads that our guys get. This is the amount of sales that 191 00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:25.920 they're able to generate. This is the amount of extra cash they're able to add. This is how much 192 00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:30.160 we cut their turn. This how much we like this is the data. And I'm like and if you're below these 193 00:15:30.160 --> 00:15:34.240 benchmarks, we can help you get to these benchmarks. And if you're above it, awesome, then you don't 194 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:38.000 need us. You know what I mean? Like cool. And if you expect that you're going to learn the same 195 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:42.800 amount just iterating on your one gym spending your whole life trying to fix it where we can iterate 196 00:15:42.800 --> 00:15:48.160 across a thousand gyms and learn every month so much faster to create the best model, then power to 197 00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:51.360 you. You know what I mean? But I don't think that's reasonable. But if you want to believe that 198 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:57.200 also, right? It just makes these very, very logical conclusions. And the thing is that the point 199 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:02.240 of making here is that when you have database or logical arguments, anyone can say them, right? 200 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.120 Some of the more charismatic, emotional driven, maybe story driven, like if you've an origin story 201 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:10.720 that a lot of people resonate with, et cetera, those would be things that will build the founders 202 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:14.880 business, the face-based business earlier, right? But if we can transition to customer stories, 203 00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:20.640 we can transition to more database marketing, then you level up and the problem that most people 204 00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:25.200 experience is that they create unsubstantiated claims, right? And so the first reason that we collect 205 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:29.120 the data is so that we can substantiate our claims, so we can be compliant marketers, right? 206 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:33.520 The thing is, there's a lot of people don't like the data that they collect, right? Because it turns 207 00:16:33.520 --> 00:16:38.160 out only 20% of their people even log in. You don't even mean like stuff like that. But you can still 208 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:46.880 always figure out a way to show, hey, of people who a logged in showed up to four coaching calls 209 00:16:46.880 --> 00:16:52.960 or whatever it is, right? And sent the emails that we told them to send. This is the average 210 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.680 return. So then all of a sudden, it's like, I didn't say everybody, but I'm saying, 211 00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:59.520 of the people who did these five things. And here's where it gets cool. When you have the data that 212 00:16:59.520 --> 00:17:05.520 you can substantiate the marketing, you also use the activities that generate that outcome that you 213 00:17:05.520 --> 00:17:11.040 slice the data with as the guarantee points, right? And that's where your customer experience 214 00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:15.520 starts driving towards. And then all of a sudden, you have this harmony between high marketing 215 00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:19.520 that gets the best outcomes, the client experiences someone go through because they're like, well, 216 00:17:19.520 --> 00:17:25.200 shit, I mean, if I have to attend four coaching calls, send this email on xyz to get that guarantee 217 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:30.160 and that outcome, then I'll do it. And then all of a sudden, the client outcomes improve even more. 218 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.840 And so it becomes this virtuous cycle of like you said, funnel hacking yourself and saying like, 219 00:17:33.840 --> 00:17:38.400 what are the best guys doing? Where are the key activities? Great. I can slice the data and show that 220 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:43.040 because I just looked at it. That becomes my front end that's data driven rather than face driven. 221 00:17:43.040 --> 00:17:47.360 And then the client experience is identical to what I told them it was going to be. So you give this 222 00:17:47.360 --> 00:17:51.040 this parallelism, which is one of the biggest issues that happens in a lot of businesses is they 223 00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:54.080 promise this thing. And then they're onboarding the product. It's totally different because they've 224 00:17:54.080 --> 00:17:57.280 been changing their hooks, changing their offers, changing their funnel, but then they sell the same 225 00:17:57.280 --> 00:18:02.560 product. And so there's this disconnect between what I bought and what I got, right? And so it's really, 226 00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:07.120 you can improve a business just by like being consistent. This is what you said. This is what you 227 00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:11.280 saw. This is what you get, right? And a lot of times it's one of the easiest ways to increase the 228 00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:15.520 value of a business, right? And so it's it's doing that across the board over and over and over again 229 00:18:15.520 --> 00:18:21.040 and it creates a virtuous cycle that improves the company. Awesome. Awesome. That there's a lot that 230 00:18:21.040 --> 00:18:26.800 you can unpack from there. And I think that if if anybody listening is really listening, they can 231 00:18:26.800 --> 00:18:30.400 implement things, you know, like as you were saying it, I was thinking, okay, Google form, 232 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:34.640 and then I had this insane thing. I was like, one of the questions would be like, if there was a 233 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:42.480 magical telepathic fairy that asked you, if you did everything we told you to do, and if you 234 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:48.400 lied, you would lose an appendage, would you say that you followed our advice? Yes, or no? And then 235 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:52.240 and of the people that said, yes, how much money did they make? How much did they increase their 236 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:58.560 business, et cetera, et cetera. You know, one final question in your dealings, right? Whether it be a 237 00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:05.280 dinner, meeting somebody at an event, doing business with someone, portfolio company, whatever, 238 00:19:05.280 --> 00:19:13.120 right? What is the one characteristic quality or dare I say red flag that you see in an entrepreneur 239 00:19:13.120 --> 00:19:17.120 where you're just like, no, I'm not going to even associate with this person. And then on the flip 240 00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:22.560 side, what is the one that you go, man, this is somebody I should know? Part of his two side of 241 00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:27.600 the same coin, but the second one probably has a little bit more explanation. So I mean, the red 242 00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:34.640 flag is always ego. Okay. Always. Like it's it's always ego. That's ego. Like that's for personal 243 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:40.480 life, that's for business, especially it's better more than anything for portfolio companies. 244 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:46.320 It's the number one thing that we look for is humility. And there's a variety of reasons, but like 245 00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:52.320 ego flows to everything, flows to coachability, it flows to their ability to be to learn and change 246 00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:57.600 their character traits to become what is required, like a lot flows from ego. And like a lot of 247 00:19:57.600 --> 00:20:02.560 the ability to lead, like being a servant leader comes from humility and to build a $30 million, 248 00:20:02.560 --> 00:20:07.840 $50 million, $100 million dollar company, like, you need to have that in my opinion. So I think a lot 249 00:20:07.840 --> 00:20:13.200 of like there's, you know, there's these charismatic leaders that exist, but the, you know, Jim Collins 250 00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.560 has written a lot about this and like good to grade and built a last and a lot of these things he 251 00:20:16.560 --> 00:20:22.880 talks about, like that level five leader who puts the customer first, who puts the company first, 252 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:28.000 who doesn't try to take credit and you always takes blame and gives, gives away credit to everybody 253 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:35.040 else. And it's honestly very rare. And that's why the vast majority, you know, right now we accept 254 00:20:35.040 --> 00:20:42.160 0.2% of the companies that apply, you know, to become a portfolio company. So it's not, I mean, 255 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:45.040 it's an investment model. It's different. You know what I mean? And for us, it's like, I only need 256 00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:49.840 one Facebook, like, I don't need to have 100, you know, I mean, like the, the biggest company we 257 00:20:49.840 --> 00:20:55.680 have does 250 a day. So you know, I mean, like, I don't, I don't need a lot of ask you what industry, 258 00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:01.680 but I know you're not. Right. So like, there's, you know, I mean, like we have some, some companies 259 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:06.400 and they've grown a lot, right? And even that one, we grew by just simplifying everything and just 260 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.880 saying, what are the points of leverage? And I'm going to wrap this with something that you said 261 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:15.760 earlier, which is like, you realize the high ticket thing. And then that was a huge like breakthrough, 262 00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:18.320 you know, in your career. And I remember the conversation really specifically. 263 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:23.680 So remember you were saying that you were, you're selling, you know, all these courses. And at the 264 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:29.120 time, if I recall correctly, I was getting 100 to one. That's right. It was some disgusting, you know, 265 00:21:29.120 --> 00:21:33.040 I, because I remember, because I gave a presentation at that one. And I remember the, the, the 266 00:21:33.040 --> 00:21:37.520 presentation. And the thing is this, I was like, yeah, man, I was like, I feel like a lot of work. 267 00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:42.960 I was like, you got to sell like, I was like, like 500 customers, like 500 grand. I was like, 268 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:49.440 I need to sell like not that. I need to sell a tenth of that. I need to sell like a 20th of that. 269 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.760 I was like, yeah, if I just sold like 40 people, I would make that money and you're like 40 people. 270 00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:59.200 And I was like, yeah. And I just remember that because like, I think that was where it's like a perfect 271 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:06.000 example of the audience of like finding points of leverage is like, is the leverage in my ability to 272 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:11.680 buy an arbitrage media and do all the tech little optimizations? Or is there one domino 273 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.600 to the Tim Ferriss illusion, right? Or is there one big leverage point that if I just 274 00:22:15.600 --> 00:22:21.280 crank that one, everything else falls into place, right? Like if you, if you can figure out, 275 00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:25.440 and the reverse way isn't, the answer is not raise your prices. I mean, sometimes it is, but 276 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:30.160 that is the outcome of the deeper thing, which is figure out a way to provide more value. And so 277 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:35.840 like if you can find a way to make someone a million dollars, you can charge 250 grand, right? 278 00:22:35.840 --> 00:22:39.600 Right. Like the reason we come with the portfolio companies and I have this visual that I just made 279 00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:44.240 yesterday about it, but like we come in and we had, we, you know, we get a minority stake for all 280 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:49.520 the interests that we do, but it's also because like, if I create $50 million in that worth for an 281 00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:55.680 entrepreneur, is it unreasonable for me to ask for 10? Most people would say no, right? And it's like, 282 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.760 well, how do you sell stuff for $10 million? It's like we make someone 50. That's how you 283 00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:03.680 sell for 10, that's how you sell stuff for $10 million. So you acquire the skills to do the thing. 284 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.520 And most people want to sell stuff for $10 million, but they have a $100,000 skill set. 285 00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:10.800 And then what happens is they destroy their reputation and then the word of mouth monster comes 286 00:23:10.800 --> 00:23:15.280 and eat them, eat them alive, right? And so you ask about, what is the thing that's the big red flag 287 00:23:15.280 --> 00:23:20.560 which is ego? What is the thing that, that, you know, we look for? It's three things. And 288 00:23:20.560 --> 00:23:23.040 they're the values of the company. So it's the same thing that I look for in our personal life, 289 00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:26.160 same thing that I look for in employees, and same thing we look for in a portfolio company. So 290 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.760 lately, I spent a really long time trying to narrow it down because we believe in three values 291 00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:34.480 rather than five or 10 or whatever because you can try and you lay thinking it's very difficult to 292 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:39.840 to map five values or 10 values against like a decision. And so the first one is, do we believe 293 00:23:39.840 --> 00:23:43.920 this person is an unpeachable character? Would we be proud to associate with this person on and off 294 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:49.040 the field, right? And like, being proud, not just like being associated, but would I be proud 295 00:23:49.040 --> 00:23:54.240 or I brag about my association with this person, right? That's unpeachable character, right? 296 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.280 And always. And it's on and off the field, which is hard because some people are like, we, 297 00:23:57.280 --> 00:24:00.400 you know, hire someone because some of their personal decisions are like, yeah, 100%. 298 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:05.840 Yeah, yeah. Because humans can't differentiate. It's hard to give advice, you know what I mean? 299 00:24:05.840 --> 00:24:11.200 In general, if people think that you, you know, cheated on your wife, like people, it's harder for 300 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.680 people to do that because even if it's good business advice, psychologically, it's difficult, 301 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:20.400 right? And I'm a realist. If I think that people are not going to be persuaded by this person, 302 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:25.120 or they're going to have all these chip, chip stacked against them, I'm just, I can just choose 303 00:24:25.120 --> 00:24:29.360 to make a different bet. You know what I mean? Like, I can just choose to vote on a different 304 00:24:29.360 --> 00:24:34.240 jockey, bet on a different, different jockey, right? It's all it is. So one is unpeachable character. 305 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:40.000 The second is sincere candor. It's not like, can they not bullshit me? That's not what sincere 306 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:46.240 candor is. Since here candor is, can they have the hard conversations, both taking the hard feedback 307 00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:52.960 and incorporating it and that is an element of humility? And then also have the empathy to care 308 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.920 about the people on their team and give them feedback when it is required. And a lot of people 309 00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:03.200 avoid those conversations, the real conversations. It's easy to just like, you know, just give the, 310 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:09.680 you know, no BS, whatever, like direct stuff, but like being like, hey, surely, you seem like 311 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:15.840 your, your head's not in it lately. And the team thinks that you're slipping. And I want to figure 312 00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:20.160 out what's going on, right? Or, you know, we gave you that piece of feedback the other day and I 313 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:25.280 felt resistance and it felt like your ego flared up, right? Like, like, you can even see my tone 314 00:25:25.280 --> 00:25:30.640 changes because like to have these conversations, it's not easy, right? And if you're going to build a 315 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.480 30 or 50 or a hundred million dollars, which is the only thing that we're interested in besting in, 316 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.920 is entrepreneurs who we think can get there, right? And so that's number two. 317 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:44.240 Number three is competitive greatness because sometimes you've got an amazing human, 318 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.240 but they're just like really content. And I want to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that. 319 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:54.960 But make if the good company does not, you know what I mean? So like, like, sometimes it takes a 320 00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:01.200 little bit of of teeth, you know, I mean, it takes a little bit of competitive drive and desire. 321 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:05.520 And sometimes that comes from fear of failure. Sometimes it comes from insecurities. Sometimes, 322 00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:10.080 sometimes, and the ideal way is that it's a pool, not a push. That's the perfect world. But I 323 00:26:10.080 --> 00:26:14.960 accept somebody who was competitively great. Michael Jordan was a hundred percent push, not pool, 324 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:20.000 right? But he was still the greatest, right? And so like, I accept that there are different forms of 325 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.640 fuel and I just want to make sure that whoever we are doing business with has one. 326 00:26:25.120 --> 00:26:31.680 We'll go guys. You guys already know that I don't run any ads on this and I don't sell anything. 327 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.960 And so the only ask that I can ever have are you guys that you help me spread the word so we 328 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:39.440 can have more entrepreneurs, make more money, feed their families, make better products, and have 329 00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:43.840 better experiences for their employees and customers. And the only way we do that is if you can 330 00:26:43.840 --> 00:26:48.480 rate and review and share this podcast. So the single thing that I have to do is you can just leave 331 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.480 review, let's take 10 seconds or one type of the thumb, it means the absolute will to me. And 332 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:59.360 more importantly, it may change the world. I was going to try to sneak in one more really lame 333 00:26:59.360 --> 00:27:03.280 interview question like what's your number one interview hack, but I already know your answer. 334 00:27:03.280 --> 00:27:10.560 It's find out if Leila Harmosey has the sister. You told me this recently, you said, you know, 335 00:27:10.560 --> 00:27:15.520 find out, basically like find a wife or husband that can be your greatest partner and can really 336 00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:20.800 help you grow. And I, you know, it's such it is kind of unorthodox advice or at least 337 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:26.880 uncommon advice, you know. But I thought that was just who's the person you spend the most 338 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:31.760 time with, right? It's your, it's your significant other. And if that person is not supportive and 339 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:37.280 maybe even pushing you to, to go further than, you know, my grandfather on my father's side, 340 00:27:37.280 --> 00:27:42.000 he was a German physicist and he always used to say constant exposure always leads to some form 341 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:48.400 of contamination. And so if you are around someone all the time that is not supporting you, 342 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:53.520 that's not supportive that is, you know, against the grain, it is going to affect you, no matter how 343 00:27:53.520 --> 00:27:58.560 much you try to separate it, no matter how much you try to be independent. And so I really did 344 00:27:58.560 --> 00:28:05.840 love that advice because it, it made so much sense, you know. Answer a question you didn't ask. 345 00:28:07.120 --> 00:28:10.160 That's always my big question. What's the question I should be asking you? 346 00:28:11.120 --> 00:28:16.240 So to find this, and I'm actually thinking about this overall too, because I was having a 347 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:20.480 branding conversation yesterday with our creative director. And I realized that I think there's 348 00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:25.120 a parallel between branding and finding a mate. So hear me out. I'm still working on this. 349 00:28:25.120 --> 00:28:30.400 I'm open to this. But I feel very confident in saying that there are three components that make 350 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.760 a good marriage. And obviously, you know, we're five years in and people are like, ah, you're 351 00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:37.520 young. All right. Cool. I'll just wait 20 years and then people listen to whatever it doesn't 352 00:28:39.120 --> 00:28:43.040 and like my only, my only dispelling of that is just that like the average marriage, 353 00:28:43.760 --> 00:28:47.920 married person spends two hours a day together. 45 minutes of that is watching television. 354 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.360 35 minutes of that is eating and 24 minutes of that is doing house chores. And so the remainder 355 00:28:53.360 --> 00:28:59.440 of that time from that is like 20 or 30 minutes. And that is it per day, right? And so, 356 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.600 compared to the amount of time that Layla and I spend together, I was like, we've already 357 00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:05.600 been married 45 years, basically the amount of time that we spend together. Oh, do that's a great 358 00:29:05.600 --> 00:29:10.320 point. This is a different, you know, different view, different lens. So I mean, I, I know some 359 00:29:10.320 --> 00:29:13.040 people who literally only see each other on the weekends because they both work full time. It's like, 360 00:29:13.040 --> 00:29:16.000 well, you spend one day a week together. You don't mean like that's nothing. Anyway, that's, 361 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:22.080 that's not my point. The, but there are three things that I think create great relationships 362 00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:29.040 in general. The first is aligned mission, which is do we want to go to the same place, right? 363 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:34.960 And a lot of people don't even talk about this. And it's like, this is the life I want to live. 364 00:29:35.040 --> 00:29:42.000 And for me, it was like, I want to do big shit. And where I want to go will be hard and treacherous 365 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.680 to get to, right? Are you down for that journey? A lot of people are not comma and that's okay. 366 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:53.440 It's just that they just might not be your person. And these requirements that I put here, 367 00:29:54.080 --> 00:30:01.040 most people will fail as they should because you only need one. I remember when I was, 368 00:30:01.040 --> 00:30:03.920 I was in college and I was like, this is all the things I'm looking for. And someone's like, 369 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:08.800 and I was talking to a girl who was, who was pursuing me. And they were like, geez, 370 00:30:08.800 --> 00:30:12.480 like good luck finding that. And I was like, I only need to find one. 371 00:30:13.760 --> 00:30:17.760 Oh, man, that's such an amazing perspective on that because that, 372 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.760 dude, that, that hits home because it makes sense. Like you, there's, they say, 373 00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:28.480 there's all these fish in the sea, but you have all these standards. Yeah, but you only need to 374 00:30:28.560 --> 00:30:34.160 find it once. That's, that's, that's a great perspective. Yeah, like being hot is a price of 375 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:39.120 admission. And it's not the, you know, I mean, like the end all bill. That means like you have a ticket 376 00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:45.440 to play in the show. You know what I mean? So one is aligned mission, right? The second is 377 00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:52.160 similar values, right? Or ideally, you know, same values, which is we know where we want to go, 378 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.240 but how do we want to get there? It's a big part. Some people want to get to the same place and 379 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.920 they want to go out and be very, go about it very differently. They've different values, right? 380 00:31:00.560 --> 00:31:02.880 And the reason that's important is because you're going to get 381 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:08.400 stimuli that that come in your life. You're going to have things obstacles. And if you're presented 382 00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:12.720 with the same data, ideally, you want to make this come to the same conclusion. You want to make 383 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:18.880 the same decision. And so the variables that you weigh and how you assign weight to those things 384 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:23.440 are going to be your values. And so whenever Leyla and I, because we've now been doing this a lot, 385 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:27.520 we've made a lot of decisions together, a lot of big decisions. If we ever have a time where we're 386 00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:32.640 not like on the same page about something, we don't immediately like fight. It's just like, 387 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:37.200 what data do you have that I'm not working with? Because I'm making this conclusion because we have 388 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.480 the same values. We want to get the same place. I'm making this conclusion based on these things. 389 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:43.760 What are you making your conclusion off of? And then she'll share her that I'm like, I didn't think 390 00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:47.440 about that. That's a good one. Or I'll share something and she'd be like, oh, totally didn't think 391 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:51.840 about that. That, yeah, that makes complete sense, right? And then we're like, cool. And then we are 392 00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:56.000 able, like we haven't had, we've only had one decision in our time merits that we disagreed on it. 393 00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:02.160 I bulldozed Leyla and it was the wrong decision. And I was like, I'm doing it. You know what I mean? 394 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:05.840 And I shouldn't have done it. And that's the thing. And so like we have always come to the point 395 00:32:05.840 --> 00:32:10.480 where if we don't agree, we don't do, we don't do whatever it is. We don't have business decision 396 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:16.080 or a personal one. Who's business is business? Okay. And the third piece. So a line mission where we 397 00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:21.920 want to go, line values, how we want to get there, right? And then the third is I like to say 398 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:26.160 similar interest, you can say lifestyle. Doesn't really matter what word to use, right? But it's like, 399 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:29.600 what are the interests that we have? Because like you might like, you want to go to the same place, 400 00:32:29.600 --> 00:32:34.160 you want to get through the same way, but it's like if the day to day, we don't share interest, 401 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:39.440 it becomes more difficult. Like if I was, if I had somebody who was super driven, had the same values, 402 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:44.880 but then like, wasn't into like fitness at all. Like didn't like exercise, didn't like eating, 403 00:32:45.360 --> 00:32:49.360 eating in a way that made sense. Like it didn't like, you know, walking, you know, just like, 404 00:32:49.360 --> 00:32:53.920 just like, what are my day to day things that I like? Or maybe they just love television? I don't 405 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.080 know. Like it's just, are there things that they have that are interest that I'm like, I have no, 406 00:32:58.080 --> 00:33:02.320 or maybe they're really big artists. I'm not an artist. I'm not into art. Maybe they love museums. 407 00:33:02.320 --> 00:33:09.280 And I'm like, fuck, that sounds horrible, right? There's nothing wrong with that. It's just like 408 00:33:09.280 --> 00:33:14.640 not my vibe, right? And so it's like, because if we can have aligned interest, like the mission 409 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.840 and values is baseline, right? And if we can have the similar interests, then we're going to spend 410 00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:26.880 more time together. And then when we get both exposed to stimuli, we will both adapt the same way. 411 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:31.600 Whereas when people have different interests, they spend time being exposed to different things, 412 00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:35.520 and then they end up adapting to the things that they're exposed to, which sometimes can be in 413 00:33:35.520 --> 00:33:39.680 the same direction, but sometimes it can not be in the same direction. And so you grow apart, 414 00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:44.320 right? And so the similarity that I'm seeing this with from a branding perspective is like, 415 00:33:44.320 --> 00:33:48.720 what, like what is a brand? I've been trying to break this down. I was like, what is a brand? 416 00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.760 Because we're like, dude, I love your brand. I'm like, what does it even mean? Right? So I'm like, 417 00:33:51.760 --> 00:33:55.360 I think on some level, it's like, there are some people who are aligned with me on the mission 418 00:33:55.360 --> 00:34:00.000 of what I'm trying to do. And they're like, I think this is dope. I'm down to like, go along with 419 00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:05.680 you, right? Go along for the ride. And then they also align with the values of like how I want to 420 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:10.640 get there. Like Gary Vienn, I probably have similar missions, but different values, not a bad way. 421 00:34:10.640 --> 00:34:13.520 They're just different. You know what I mean? Like we just do, you know, just do different things. 422 00:34:13.520 --> 00:34:16.000 We're different people. You know what I mean? There's nothing wrong with that. Right? Same thing is 423 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.840 like, there's another girl who might not be your wife, but she might be someone's wife, right? It's 424 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:25.920 just just different, right? And then different interests, right? And so if I think the brand, 425 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.560 it's like, this world want to go, this is how I want to get there. And then this is like my day to day, 426 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:33.760 my cats, my work, my dessert stuff, my, you know, I mean, like these are the day to day 427 00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:40.720 interests that I have. And I am a minimalist slash a functionalist, right? And so if you think 428 00:34:40.720 --> 00:34:46.480 through those lenses, I think, anyway, that's that's what I think it helps build relationships. 429 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.760 And I also think it might be able to build a brand because I think brands are really just 430 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:58.640 relationships with a mass audience. So same mission, same values, same day-to-day desired 431 00:34:58.640 --> 00:35:04.880 ideal environment. Oh, and hot. You mentioned that. Well, and I'll say this, they should be hot 432 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:09.600 for you, rather than cough for everyone else. Because sometimes you need to know the key holder 433 00:35:09.600 --> 00:35:15.520 if you're on the bikes. 100%. Awesome. And I'm going to tell you, you know, I think that if we 434 00:35:15.600 --> 00:35:20.240 just clip out the last 10 minutes of this interview, you, no one would ever need to buy a 435 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:25.040 relationship course again. You could just watch what you just said. That was like the best relationship 436 00:35:25.040 --> 00:35:30.640 advice. Because it was just so brutally, tactically honest, you know, I just stripped away all the 437 00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:36.400 bullshit, you know, so that I appreciate that. I definitely learned a lot from that. Alex, man, 438 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:43.440 thank you for coming on and sharing all this. And, you know, I try to ask some more tactical 439 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:50.400 questions and pull out some some real native gritty stuff. So I appreciate you sharing all that 440 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:56.000 and getting into the weeds and not doing what most people do and go on these long story tangents 441 00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:00.640 that are irrelevant. You know, I love your directness. So thank you so much for coming on. 442 00:36:00.640 --> 00:36:04.800 And I think people are really, really, really going to enjoy this interview. 443 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:17.200 Shade it. Thanks for having me. Thank you to the audience. Thanks, man.